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Messages - JKRich

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1
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Prizes can be put back now
« on: March 30, 2020, 02:37:40 pm »
What happens to Black Market cards?

They get returned to the supply, just like Farmers' Market cards.
It does not work that way -- at least online (is it programmed wrong?). Unfortunately I had read this thread shortly before it came up in a game, and learned the hard way.  :(

Awaclus was just making a bad joke pretending that people were talking about the card called Black Market, even though they were talking about cards that are from the Black Market deck.
Congratulations, awaclus -- you got me!! No, I would have not been confused otherwise, but I mistakenly assumed you had enough "street cred" to believe you. My bad!

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Dominion General Discussion / Re: Prizes can be put back now
« on: March 30, 2020, 02:13:34 pm »
What happens to Black Market cards?

They get returned to the supply, just like Farmers' Market cards.
It does not work that way -- at least online (is it programmed wrong?). Unfortunately I had read this thread shortly before it came up in a game, and learned the hard way.  :(

3
I hadn't looked at what the First Game Setup was before my previous post. My main point was that the game is obviously going to be longer when everyone is using bad strategies. I would actually recommend playing a kingdom where Big Money is not a winning strategy, rather something more exciting. If you want maximum interaction and are using Intrigue, definitely use Masquerade (except that the more interaction, the longer the game will take so there's a balance to be struck there). Looking at the recommended Base kingdoms, I like Size Distortion (without the putrid Bureaucrat that newer players tend to overvalue -- maybe use Smithy instead). It gives options like whether to go for Workshop/Gardens or try to corner the market on Gold with Bandit, how to use Artisan, etc. Maybe you could pick a different strategy than your friends, beat them with that, then play again and when they try your 1st game strategy try a different one and beat them with that to show them the skill involved in winning, not just picking the obvious strategy and hoping you get lucky.

4
I did not want to try a 'Big money' strategy because I knew they probably would not have been able to counter it) ?
Isn't it true that the first major step in becoming competent at Dominion is being able to beat Big Money (after learning not to buy Duchy on a 5-2 to take an early lead ;D ;D)? I know the first time my playgroup played Dark Ages I chose to play Big Money just for giggles and won easily. Maybe your friends found it to seem longer than it is because they were using bad strategy that made the game take longer -- otherwise they might've beaten Big Money. Is it possible that using the best strategy might've helped your friends see how the game is best played and thus encouraged them to learn to play the exciting, winning style we've all come to know and love? Just some random thoughts -- but if they're really experienced card players you think they'd be able to handle getting beat a few times to see how the game should be played. Now the "limited theme" issue is another thing. Some people like games that make them actually be able to imagine that they are slaying dragons or whatever. My former playgroup broke up partially over that issue. I was thrilled to keep playing Dominion when others weren't. It's plenty thematic to me, but to each their own.

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Dominion General Discussion / Memories of A Thief! and friends
« on: September 10, 2019, 01:41:01 am »
(I know, I know: a good thief doesn't have any real friends :(, but still...) I'm just curious what those who remember the previous online implementation better than I think about the quality of Goko/MF's bots compared to Shuffle iT's. I came to Dominion OL in late 2016 after playing IRL for several years, the vast majority of my games being 3-4p. I played base for a few months, then subscribed to all sets the last 2 months (once they finally had that option towards the end). I know the Banker Bots were bad, basically Big Money, but I don't know if some of the other bots just seemed better than what we have now because I wasn't as experienced and was still learning several of the expansions or if they actually were better. Feedback anyone?

6
Dominion General Discussion / Re: March Madness Kingdom
« on: March 23, 2019, 12:33:25 pm »
Here is my March Madness Kingdom:

Page (Includes Warrior, Hero, and Champion)

Sorry, but traveling's not allowed :D ;D :-[

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Dominion Strategy Wiki Feedback / Qvist rankings page error
« on: February 13, 2019, 12:42:44 pm »
On the List of Cards by Qvist Rankings page, last year when the new rankings were posted an error was introduced making the section from "The 1st, 2011 ed., had 30 users submit rankings" up through "The 7th..." (now the 8th) appear totally unformatted, unlike the rest of the page. I kept thinking "Don't be a perfectionistic nerd. Someone will certainly see and fix this soon." Now a whole year has passed and it's still there and my inner perfectionist would really appreciate it if someone would correct this. Thanks.

EDIT: Promptly fixed. Thank you very much. 

8
Iiiinteresting!
I searched f.ds and the wiki and was frankly surprised I saw no mention of this interaction anywhere.

I can envisage boards where you might want to keep one, maybe even two, of your Coppers though? Particularly, keeping a Copper would let you buy Gold instead of a $5-cost on T4.
I'm not an expert by any stretch so my natural inclination is to think that keeping a Copper dilutes your deck with, well, a Copper. Does that make me an overtrasher? Do I have a problem? Is there a support group for this?

Also, you probably want to buy a Ruins on T3.
Excellent catch.

I'd love to know how that combo fitted into various kingdoms. I can see three very different ways to proceed:
  • Buy the cards you really want, then once your ruins run out let the Death Cart eat itself,
  • Buy another Death Cart every third turn.
  • Rely on cantrip +Buy or a gainer to keep the Death Cart fed constantly throughout the game.
Your last 2 points both basically need a kingdom with +buy (figuring your deck would be strong enough to not want to waste entire turns solely buying a Death Cart at that point), which I didn't have, but are again excellent points.

9
Donate + Death Cart

Saw this w/ 4/3 recently.

T1: buy DC
T2: Donate all but DC/Ruins, pay 3 debt
T3: trash a ruins, pay remaining debt
T4: trash other ruins and either
   a. buy best $5 card on board -- deck is now DC + best $5 or
   b. buy another DC to have 2 DC + 2 ruins, insuring at least $5 for next 4 turns.

10
Dominion General Discussion / Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2017 Edition
« on: January 23, 2018, 11:06:45 pm »
Just wanted to give a big thanks to everyone involved in gathering and publishing the 2017 Cards List results!!!   ... getting the lists published so fast was just really great!!
+the number of possible unique Dominion kingdoms!

This list has always been one of my main reference points, and I think it is an extremely valuable resource for newer players.
So true, which is why I have a suggestion, and that would be to make the following change to the end of the Card Lists description paragraph: change "like the Dark Ages cards in 2013" to  "like Dismantle in late 2017" This will save newer players from wondering "Where's Dismantle?" as I did at first about Sauna/Avanto last year. Obviously the 2013 reference is outdated, and since Dismantle was available online in 2017 some (maybe even me :-[ :-[) might go to the page expecting to find it.

11
All these people not wanting better animations are going to be the death of this game.

Players who aren't experts should be able to see what's happening without referencing the log constantly. Right now that's not the case.

Stef specifically said that he wants "your own personal wishes, not what you think is best for others". My personal wish is that I could disable or speed up the animations.
I agree wholeheartedly with both of you. Are the animations too fast? Yes! Are the animations too slow? Yes! How can both be true at the same time? I'm collecting my thoughts to make a detailed case on how they would best work, but as a preview the current 1 by 1 movement of every single card seems ineffective and inefficient. It doesn't reflect IRL play, unless you know someone who always moves their cards at clean-up from their hand & play area to their discard pile 1 by 1 :-[  ??? and just seems like a huge waste of time. I can't imagine that most of those who don't want to "wait for animations" wouldn't want this eliminated - I'm on the other side, and I sure do. I don't need end-of-turn animations at all, but if they're there moving hand/played cards quickly into a single pile then quickly to the discard pile at least makes some visual sense. OTOH, for those wanting to be able to follow the action w/o constant log referencing, a simple slider bar, say above a player's info box, to control animation speed of cards played seems an obvious choice. Wouldn't this be simple to program? I assume there's a parameter for current animation speed with a set value (OK, maybe 2 for wait v don't wait) which could easily be made into a variable.

There's more details to come, but from what I've read at least some of the concerns about "better animations" have to due with concerns about performance -- yet "better" doesn't completely mean "more intricate and involved and resource hogging" here, it could also mean streamlining what's there now to be more effective/efficient.

12
Aaaaaaaaah you're supposed to start rankings from the bottom, not the top  :'(
Agreed - I would've preferred seeing the suspense building toward the top and getting the laggards out of the way first consistent with the other postings. At the same time I loved the scatter plot. It leads to interesting questions like "Who could possibly have ranked Annex in the top half?" or "Did someone win with a Farmland/Remodel/Province strategy right before doing their rankings and do they still feel that way about Farmland?"

13
Patrol is also the king of triggering bad shuffles. There's hardly another card in Dominion that has you reconsider playing it when you're left with 6 cards in your deck.
True, but Patrol still has the potential for drawing 7 cards and skipping by 4 VC/curses so I was expecting it to be better than barely Top 50.

14
Okay, we are being WAY too hard on Jack.
Would you rather we be way too hard on Jacques?

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Dominion General Discussion / Re: Christmas Kingdoms 2017
« on: December 24, 2017, 11:04:52 am »
This is gold.
Maybe we should save the pun-ishment for the Easter kingdoms thread? ;) :D ;D 8) :P

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Dominion General Discussion / Re: Christmas Kingdoms 2017
« on: December 23, 2017, 01:52:50 pm »
Maybe Miser could be replaced by Peasant->Soldier->Fugitive->Disciple->Teacher?

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Dominion Online at Shuffle iT / Re: site down?
« on: December 18, 2017, 08:40:00 pm »
Yes I'm pretty sure it's down.

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Let me be clear that I certainly was not expecting anything from Qvist. Even if he has other priorities and wants out that's totally cool with me. Just looking for any informal feedback on how people see the 2e cards. I also think it might be cool if someone who knows how to update the wiki would put something at the bottom like "the following cards used in Dominion Online are newer and not yet ranked: Harbinger, Vassal, ..." for reasons I already stated.

19
I've loved, especially as a newer online player, the ability to have a tab open to Qvist's card rankings page so I can not only check out how different cards are ranked, but have easy access to each card's wiki page in case I have rules and/or strategy questions -- that is except for the 2nd edition cards (and individual castles and Sauna/Avanto and unlisted $6+ -- Dominate and Conquest and ??). Now I personally don't need it anywhere near as much as I used to, but I think this would be a great resource to encourage newer players to use, especially if the rankings page were even just updated to list the new cards at the bottom so players could both get as much rankings info as is available and link to every card's wiki page all from one place.

Also, six months in, I personally can't wait to see how people would rank the new 2e cards, and would love anyone's opinions on this.  Maybe anyone interested could give a list such as Vassal: x, Harbinger: y, etc. where ranking a card x means you would list it between the cards ranked x and x+1 on the current Qvist list?

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With all the work you've put in to help this community over the years, no apology ever needed from you, and the biggest of thanks comes your way from me, certainly to be +1'ed by many! ;D ;D ;D 8)

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Hi, Qvist. Love your rankings page - I keep a tab open to it to refer to when I play all the time. Even if you never do anymore, awesome job! If you don't want to or can't put any more time into it we'd understand. Maybe you could just post a quick list of the remaining $5 and $6+ rankings without worrying about doing any videos so then anyone could update the wiki and you could be done with it? Just an idea.

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Dominion Online at Shuffle iT / Re: Tutorial?
« on: March 15, 2017, 06:18:42 pm »
Also needed is a guide on how to use the site. What is Good Match? What are Familiar Cards? etc. etc. etc.

Chris is me has written a great unofficial guide on all of these topics, but unfortunately it is not linked anywhere from the client itself, and similarly detailed information is not provided. Chris's guide is here: http://forum.shuffleit.nl/index.php?topic=1100.0

I didn't make my post because I needed help myself, and I was already familiar with Chris is me's excellent FAQ (although I'm glad you mentioned it because it got me to go and see his recent major update ;D). Click psychology being what it is I do think something needs to be linked from the client itself -- maybe putting "Site guide" above where they currently have "Need help?". I just remember how frustrating it was in January to be "thrown into the deep end" without instructions and how much nicer it would've been if only there was an organized site usage description like... I can imagine it now... (cue the dream sequence music and video fade to our alternate reality...)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Welcome to Shuffle iT's Dominion Online.  Here's everything you need to know about how our website works:

Our site contains a number of pages used to guide your Dominion experience, some of which lead you into games. There are a number of page buttons at the top of each page. The page you are currently on is highlighted in blue. To go to another page click on its button. Let's explain each page:

Matching: This is the default page, where you first land when you log in (once your account setup is complete). It is also the easiest and quickest place to find a 2-player game of Dominion. Here you will see a row of 3 buttons:

Quick Match: Click this to enter into a 2-player game with the first available person who also clicked this. Both of your Familiar Cards lists will be respected (see Familiar Cards section).

Good Match: Clicking this will match you with someone whose skill level/ranking* and Familiar Cards lists are both similar to yours. Sometimes there will be a wait to find a compatible opponent, but you can always cancel if the wait is too long.

*Ranking current games is yet to be implemented but should be soon. For now rankings are based on games played in previous years on prior platforms and can be found here: http://gokosalvager.com/leaderboard/?full=True&sortkey=level. Rankings have a theoretical range of 100 to -100, with 0 being average. If you have a username not on this list your current ranking is 0.

Bot Match: Click this to enter a game against our Bot/AI Lord Rattington. Your Familiar Cards list will be respected.

Below these buttons is the number of Total Users in Queue, i.e. waiting for games, which can give you an idea of how long it might take to get a Quick or Good Match.

Below that is a table with columns labelled Friend and Activity. This allows you to see which of your friends is currently logged in. If there is an opening at their table to play or spectate, next to their activity (for example "at table") there will be a small white button labelled "join". Clicking that will take you directly to their table where you can chat with them, play a game, etc. Note that you or anyone can choose for their activity to not be seen -- see Options page for more. See Friends List page for more on becoming on-site friends.

----------------------------------

New Table: This page is where you go to create a more customizable playing environment, aka "table" (think of a table as the digital equivalent of a table you would sit down to IRL to play a game with friends). Here you can fully customize the number of players and/or bots in your game, specific cards used and/or expansions randomly chosen from, etc. In the middle of the page there are selectors for the minimum/maximum # of players allowed at your table (although these can again be adjusted after clicking Create Table). Below these there are 2 buttons, Create Table and Load Old Game.

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

OK, I don't want to spend any more time on this, at least for now, but you get the idea of what I think would be a great thing to have on the site. 


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Dominion Online at Shuffle iT / Re: Tutorial?
« on: March 14, 2017, 05:58:19 pm »
Also needed is a guide on how to use the site. What is Good Match? What are Familiar Cards? etc. etc. etc.

24
Many of the features feel targeted towards experienced players, not new players. It's unclear where new player concerns are in the priority list. Even if they are high on the priority list, the perception is that they aren't.
Clearly "familiar cards" is at least an attempt to help new players.... I won't say that they don't want to help new players (hey, they told us to "pretend to think" when we can't reveal a card to block the +1 from Gladiator -- no, that's not condescending at all ::)).
The "Pretend to Think" thing was short for "Pretend to think about whether to reveal the card or not". It certainly wasn't intended as condescending, and I actually struggle to see why you'd see it as condescending in the first place.

The text went from "Done Pretending" to "Pretend to Think" to "Don't Reveal", if I remember correctly.
I certainly wouldn't think they intended to be condescending. Why I find it off-putting is this: the click-box says "DON'T REVEAL" whether one has the card to block the extra +$1 from Gladiator or not. If one has the card to block, the info box (under Actions/Buys/Coins) says "YOU MAY REVEAL A(N)...". If one doesn't have the card to block it says "PRETEND TO THINK". This is given as an imperative, not a suggestion, the grammar implying "you must/should pretend to think" (as opposed to "YOU MAY PRETEND TO THINK", which would've been a much better wording, consistent with the wording they use just about everywhere else IIRC). Now since there's no actual card play decision to make here -- one does not have the card to block and clicking on DON'T REVEAL is the only choice -- it begs the question "Why do I have to pretend to think?".  If I'm playing a bot, again as a newer player who can't read the developers' minds, it begs questions like "Will the bot play differently if I don't? How long should I think anyways?". After finally figuring out what they are really telling you is certain situations might arise in a game against human players where you might want to pretend to be deciding whether to not reveal a card you have and give them the extra $1 to put doubt in their mind whether you actually have that card in hand but are just choosing not to reveal it for strategic reasons, but in this specific situation that might not be the case at all and there's no reason to waste time pretending to think, and if you're playing a bot/bots there's never any reason to waste time pretending to think even though it specifically says "PRETEND TO THINK", well do I really need to say anymore about why I think that's upsetting?  And if one was to say they assumed you'd figure out the context of their learned wise imperative suggestion, can't that logically appear to be condescending?

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Many of the features feel targeted towards experienced players, not new players. It's unclear where new player concerns are in the priority list. Even if they are high on the priority list, the perception is that they aren't.
Clearly "familiar cards" is at least an attempt to help new players. I think a good analogy to the situation is this: Michael Jordan is considered the greatest ever to play basketball, but as an owner/GM he's been absolutely terrible at building a good team. I've read several "Stef and Philip are great players who really love Dominion... so they'll definitely make a great product" posts -- this is not necessarily true. I'm not saying that they don't want to help new players. Whether they will adequately address the needs of newer players is still to be determined.

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