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Messages - GendoIkari

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1
General Discussion / Re: Random Stuff Part IV
« on: August 17, 2018, 10:57:36 am »
The sensors are located about a car length back at certain intersections. Sometimes it's optimal to back up if you are the only one waiting to turn.

Yeah, I was getting ready to try that when I saw the other car approaching.

2
Personally, I think it would save a lot of card space if Possession just said "Possess the player to your left" and then have the rulebook explain what "possess" means.

This is basically what MTG does, except the cards say "You control target player during that playerís next turn."  And that's one of the examples I was talking about where they wrote an entire section of the rules just to explain what that one card did. But now there are multiple other cards that also let you control other players.

3
General Discussion / Re: Random Stuff Part IV
« on: August 16, 2018, 03:30:08 pm »
Last night I sat for about 9 minutes at a red light. Not just what felt like 9 minutes, I actually started timing it after a couple minutes. The sensor or whatever was broken; eventually a car pulled up behind me, and the light changed almost right after they arrived.

4
I prefer having a +1 to "take a coin token."

I agree, but the wording change didn't happen for Pirate Ship and Trade Route. Is that because they have quite a different effect from "+# Coffers", or because the idea of changing the phrase came after these revised versions were printed?

With only two remaining "take a coin token" cards, with different effects from "Coffers", I feel that it's fitting these weren't rephrased. Once they're placed on their respective cards, they kind of do the same thing, so I like that you kept the same phrase for these two even in "2nd edition".
They can't say "+1 Coffers" because that's not what they do. They don't each have a unique + because you want to use a term more often before you make people learn it. Well in rare cases you might make people learn a term for one thing, when you can't explain the thing on the card, but that wasn't an issue here.

One of the more amusing things about MTG's comprehensive rules are a couple sections that exist specifically to explain how to interpret the text of just 1 specific card.

5
General Discussion / Re: Random Stuff Part IV
« on: August 16, 2018, 11:42:45 am »
Right, this is the premise behind Deal or No Deal. Because each chest is opened randomly, you actually do gain new information with each opened chest, and the expected worth of your chest changes each time.

And the mathiness of Deal or No Deal is pretty neat too. Not as controversial as Let's Make a Deal obviously.

Fun fact: I happened across the show while flipping channels and got sucked in by mistake. The contestant was deciding which box to open, and her family was behind her encouraging her to take her time in making such an important decision. So much math rage that day.

I think those types of things are more people being bad with superstition than people being bad with math. They feel like a certain number is a lucky winner (or loser); not that a certain number actually has a mathematically better chance.

6
I prefer having a +1 to "take a coin token."

I agree, but the wording change didn't happen for Pirate Ship and Trade Route. Is that because they have quite a different effect from "+# Coffers", or because the idea of changing the phrase came after these revised versions were printed?

With only two remaining "take a coin token" cards, with different effects from "Coffers", I feel that it's fitting these weren't rephrased. Once they're placed on their respective cards, they kind of do the same thing, so I like that you kept the same phrase for these two even in "2nd edition".

I think having a keyword makes less sense if there's only 1 card that uses the keyword. Pirate Ship could have been reworded to "+1 Plunder", but it would be sort of silly if nothing else in the game ever mentions Plunder; and then you need extra rules explaining what Plunder means, just to make that 1 card work.

It's sort of like automating a process. Automating it saves time for each time you run the process; but it has some overhead cost of automating it in the first place. This cost is worth it if that process runs multiple times; but if the process only runs once, then automating it just wastes time. Replace "time" with "rules text" for the analogy to work.

*Edit*: https://xkcd.com/1205/

7
General Discussion / Re: Random Stuff Part IV
« on: August 16, 2018, 10:26:42 am »
The funny thing is that, if the door that is revealed to have a goat was chosen randomly, then it doesnít make any difference whether you swap doors or not, you have a 50% chance either way. Itís only because the host guarantees that he will open a door with a goat behind it that the odds are skewed in favour of swapping doors.

Right, this is the premise behind Deal or No Deal. Because each chest is opened randomly, you actually do gain new information with each opened chest, and the expected worth of your chest changes each time.

8
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Interesting Card Design Challenges
« on: August 16, 2018, 09:52:02 am »
For a pure reaction:

Quote
King Midas Reaction,
When a player (including you) gains a card costing from to , you may reveal this from your hand to exchange the gained card for a Gold.

If you play it on yourself, it's basically a + since it turns a into a , so not worth that much.

However, stopping your opponent from gaining Duchies or key engine components could be devastating. Maybe too strong.

It's neat. I'd be worried about it slowing down the game too much though; as there's potentially a decision / action to take place for every buy.

I don't think it even needs the - clause; using it on yourself to turn a cheaper card into a Gold doesn't seem that powerful because you still have to have it in hand at the time you buy, and it's not a good card to have to be in your hand. It does need to not work on Provinces though.

Actually, it likely would just turn every game into a big-money; it's going to be hard for anyone to get engine components with this around.

9
Rules Questions / Re: Self-Pin?
« on: August 15, 2018, 05:24:46 pm »
A rational, if unsporting, player that was losing would go for Possession. )-8

If you're winning without Possession, then it seems unlikely that your opponent will be able to switch to a Possession strategy in enough time to stage a comeback so strong that you feel you have to then Donate to stop from losing.

And even if you do need to wreck your deck to deal with this; you can donate everything except your VP and a few Coppers. This way you can pay off your debt and slowly drain out piles to end the game with the lead.

10
General Discussion / Re: Random Stuff Part IV
« on: August 14, 2018, 06:00:46 pm »
Paul Erdos refused to believe the solution to the Monty Hall problem.

A lot of academics refused to believe it as well:
http://marilynvossavant.com/game-show-problem/

I didn't accept it at first either, but I at least wasn't a petulant little dick about it.

I ate crow when someone suggested expanding the puzzle to 1000 doors. Made me re-examine the math while acknowledging my blinders.

I still think it makes much more sense to ask what the probability is when you first pick, and realize that that probability doesn't change when the host opens another door.

But the exact problem is that so many people's intuition tells them that the probability does change as a result of getting new information. The trick is to make them realize that they didn't actually get new (meaningful) information.

11
General Discussion / Re: Random Stuff Part IV
« on: August 14, 2018, 05:25:13 pm »
Drop the owner part. How much did the store lose?

The markup is an important distinction, though lost revenue is a thing, but just like many textbook questions, this doesn't figure into the calculation.

My favorite is the woman who talked herself into stating that the store lost $270. Her being wrong was nothing special, but the magnitude in which she was wrong is pretty amazing.

Even ignoring the salary vs profit bits; it IS necessary to know if money gained by selling stuff counts as actual money gained; or whether it only counts as transferring assets from goods to cash.

In other words, if the theft hadn't happened, and someone walked in and bought $70 worth of stuff, would we say that the store made $70? There's 3 equally valid answers to that question:

1. The store made $70, because it has $70 more cash now than before.
2. The store didn't make anything, because although it has $70 more cash, it no longer has the items that could be sold for $70.
3. The store made whatever profit was made depending on the cost basis of the goods that were sold. So more than $0 but less than $70.

Which of the 3 answers you give to that question will determine the answer to "how much did the store lose in the theft?"

12
General Discussion / Re: Random Stuff Part IV
« on: August 14, 2018, 05:16:45 pm »
Posting to avoid captcha

Perhaps the most random of all first posts. Welcome!

13
Is this meant to be another one of those "Cursed Village / Pathfinding" type posts?

14
Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Maximum Wishes gained in a turn?
« on: August 14, 2018, 04:01:24 pm »
I feel like we've reached the point in Dominion where the answer to all puzzles in the form of "what's the most ______" can by answered by "unbounded, here's the infinite loop".

15
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Spillage Village
« on: August 14, 2018, 03:56:56 pm »
One problem with "-1" anything is that it's not clear what should happen when you are at 0 of the thing and you get another "-1". Whether that thing is buys, coins, or actions. Poor House is the only official card that does "-1", and it specifies on the card itself "You can't go below ".

So if I start my turn with 1 buy, then play 3 -1 buy, then a +1 buy, do I now have a buy?

"Start your next turn with 3 actions" is strange wording. Do you specifically intend for it to not stack, as opposed to "At the start of your next turn, +2 actions"? As Holunder mentions, this is very weak. Even without the -1 buy part it would still be very weak. It's as bad as a Curse on your current turn.

16
The problem is that the changes were not only wording. There were layout and font changes as well, which apply to every card; not just ones like Throne Room. So if players really want the "second edition" experience, they just need to buy second edition.

Iím aware that many formatting changes were made for appearance and aesthetics.  I canít afford to buy all of dominion a second time though :(.  Iím mostly interested in getting changes to cards that update the rules - so that my existing sets can still be used with the latest one in a consistent way.   I wonder how many others would be interested ....

I doubt there would be a market for it. I know for me, if playing with Throne Room or Masquerade, I would just remind the other players that the card has been errata'd.

17
Iím secretly hoping that at some point they will release a rewording update pack.   Even in base and intrigue there were a few cards that got small rule changes by rewording the cards.  Maybe there are enough out of date (but not deprecated) cards now that there would be a market for an update pack to adddress those - including cards that need the coin token to coffers rework.

The problem is that the changes were not only wording. There were layout and font changes as well, which apply to every card; not just ones like Throne Room. So if players really want the "second edition" experience, they just need to buy second edition.

18
Solo Challenges / Re: Empy the Black Market in as few turns as possible
« on: August 13, 2018, 08:31:52 am »
I suppose this is supposed to be using the online implementation? Because the official rules allow for the Black Market to contain only 1 card (or maybe even 0 cards?).

19
Other Games / Re: A Link to the Past Randomizer
« on: August 12, 2018, 11:06:51 pm »
This is the most amazing race Iíve seen:



Just completely unbelievable that it could end as a tie, given how completely different things were for each runner throughout. One runner having the boots, the other having silvers. Boots being just enough to make Andy catch up and get a decent lead in GT, then the silvers being exactly enough to catch back up on Ganon. Simply amazing.

And congrats to Andy for winning the tournament!

20
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« on: August 12, 2018, 10:28:10 pm »
All cards you own count for your score and stuff like Gardens etc. . Cards like Island originally said to return them to be nice to the player, spelling out something they didn't need to spell out. But it's like this, by telling out something you didn't need to, if it's lacking, people will think, why isn't it spelled out here, apparently this is different? Lesson learned: Don't spell out things that go by themselves.

Yeah, I've come to terms with this. Gazbag made a good point about Inherited Ratcatchers still counting for points even if they are on your Tavern mat when the game ends. I guess that was the evidence I needed, being as the rules tell a different story.

I'm assuming it's just a product of the rules detailing the "End Game" (1st edition Base and Intrigue) came out long before the first mats (1st edition Seaside). The solution when Seaside came out was then, as you said, to tell the player to do something they probably already assumed they should do anyways, take their cards from their mat and score them. Now (2nd edition Seaside) even that has been put back into obscurity in the expanded rules. I just thought the 2nd edition rules would have cleared this up.

Anyways, it's not such a big deal. I just thought maybe I had stumbled onto some untapped design space and wanted to share. Sorry folks!

I just noticed that second edition Island and Native village do away with the "return to the deck at the end of the game" clause, which makes me super happy. I've always been bothered by that text. Sure, if it hadn't been there to begin with, there would have been a few people asking "do cards on the Island Mat count for scoring?" But while the text prevented those particular questions, it lead to many other questions such as "do cards set aside by Haven count for scoring? Island says cards return the cards to the deck, but Haven doesn't."

21
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« on: August 10, 2018, 01:29:19 am »
*EDIT_02* Here is the actual text from the manual. "Take all of your cards - from your hand, deck, discard pile, play area, and even set aside cards - and sort them for putting them back in their piles. Count up your points." This is a bit off topic, but if a Victory card somehow got onto your Tavern mat and didn't check on itself to be there, would the points still be counted?

I don't think that text is meant to exclude the Tavern Mat. Distant Lands can still score 4[$vp] because it only cares if it is on your mat "at the end of the game". Not "when counting up points. Also, it's not clear wording anyway, it just says "take all of your cards", without a definition of what it means to "take" them. The point clearly seems to be to gather them up so that you can count all of them as your score, but you have to make a logical assumption.

22
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« on: August 10, 2018, 01:25:33 am »
I thought the precedent was that "When" happens before anything else happens.

"When another player plays an attack card" happens before the attack.

"When you trash this" happens before you trash it.

No, "when" happens after the event. Fortress is in the trash pile at the time that you return it to your hand. Cards like Moat have a "first", which changes that rule. So "when x happens, do y"... x has already happened before you do y. "When x happens, first do y"... you do y when x has started to happen, but hasn't finished happening yet.

*Edit* Inn is a simple example of how we know this. Inn's when-gain has Inn already in the discard pile when you look through it.

23
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« on: August 09, 2018, 05:45:44 pm »
The "Game End" seems to be three phases:
(1) Start of Game End.
(2) Take all cards (minus cards on mats if not specified to take).
(3) Scoring.

Since your current version is set aside and will get pulled at phase (2), should you have to specify the condition as being "At the start of Game End" or "At the start of the end of the game"?

I don't think this is correct. I don't think cards are "pulled"; Distant Lands shows us that cards remember where they were when the game ended, and there seems to be a general rule (written or not) that all cards that are yours count as part of your deck for the purposes of Gardens, etc. The fact Island says "returned to your deck" really has no rules meaning at all; given that cards like Haven don't have this same wording, but still work exactly the same.

24
Any chance on seeing an update pack for Guilds with the "coin tokens" -> "coffers" cards?  If the new expansion is going to call them coffers, we are going to have cards with both terms in the box unless we rebuy Guilds + Cornucopia


The big twist is that Renaissance won't have coffers at all. "There are tokens that let you save coins and actions for later" is actually referring to a completely different mechanic from what we saw in Guilds.
I don't think that we can assume that yet. While the very remaining of "take a Coin token" into "+1 Coffers" strongly indicates that DXV has done new stuff with Coin tokens in the upcoming expansion this doesn't imply that there will be nothing with Coffers.
It is like with Durations in Adventures, there was new stuff like Durations that stay out for more or less than 1 turn but also old stuff, i.e. "normal" Durations.

Pretty sure Gendo was joking.

Indeed.. to me, the renaming of Coffers in fact strongly indicates that we WILL see "+1 Coffers" in the new set.

25
Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Most money from 5-card hand?
« on: August 09, 2018, 03:58:56 pm »
You can just replace Pixie with Mining Village there to get an infinite / ďarbitrarily largeĒ amount of coin.

Hmm, does this work for the 1-turn supply empty as well? The Pixie solution relies on using Earth and Mountain gifts to gain basically everything; but since it doesn't go infinite with coin, it could fail on an arbitrarily large supply (like if a future expansion just said "all games now have an extra supply pile of cards costing $100). But if you can actually get infinite coins with Mining Village instead; then the solution works on all supplies.

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