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Messages - popsofctown

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1
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Best cards to learn specific rules?
« on: July 18, 2018, 01:18:48 am »
If you have more cards, Conclave would be the best teacher about +1 Action being a resource.

2
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Grey makes a boring card now and then.
« on: July 16, 2018, 07:11:25 pm »
There's also "each other player discards down to four cards in hand, then gains a Copper if the top card of her discard pile is a Victory card."

The Councilroom engines won't be dissuaded from playing the card.

3
I don't find Seduce that offensive.  I think certain strategies would get out of hand without it if we don't add a different hard removal to the game.

4
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Grey makes a boring card now and then.
« on: July 15, 2018, 02:27:07 pm »
This is really cool.

5
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Royal Seal fix
« on: July 13, 2018, 09:30:59 pm »
I'm also unsure why "next clean-up" is preferable to doing it immediately.


If you trashed it immediately, it wouldn't give you any top-decking, because it wouldn't be in play when you bought any cards.

The solution would be to give it the Travelling Fair wording of "when you gain a card this turn", rather than "while this is in play". Then you can have it be trashed immediately.
Sure, that would work better.

I made it non optional so that it's not too good in Gardens games.  Bad call?

6
Well, I'm not trying to quit an addiction here, I'm just quitting something that I never really feel like doing, anyway.
You're also making sure to tell us all.
I interpret "why I'm quitting" announcements as a valiant attempt to combat the inherent response bias in a community almost exclusively consisting of feedback from the people who have remained within it.

Currently I have this thing where I enter the URL for Dominion Online, then remember my subscription is expired, then enter the URL for War of Omens.  Sorry Stef :(

7
Variants and Fan Cards / Royal Seal fix
« on: July 11, 2018, 11:15:24 pm »
Keeping this out of general.

Eager Seal
4$ Treasure
Worth 2$
+1 Buy
While this is in play, when you gain a card that more than 4$, trash Eager Seal next clean up.
While this is in play, when you gain a card, put it onto your deck.

8
If you want to play the equivalent of "no items, Fox only, Final Destination" in Dominion—and I'm not saying you do, but if you did—I think the closest analogue you could get is to find the set of 10 Kingdom cards that most rewards skill, and only ever play that board. Just play the crap out of it. That way you never have to experience the endless variety that makes Dominion so much fun. It's not a perfect analogy, of course, but you can't get a perfect analogy between a fighting game and a turn-based card game.
Incidentally, when I introduced my partner to Super Smash Brothers, we had the problem where I was significantly better than him.  And I thought, based on stereotypes, that we could make it more luck-based by turning up items.  It turns out that items tipped the scales even more in my favor, because I actually knew what all the items did, and he didn't.  This is an excellent illustration of how luck and skill are orthogonal characteristics of a game.
I agree with your conclusion but your reasoning seems rather flawed.  The additional advantage didn't come from him being accustomed to the random way the items were distributed, but from knowing the mechanics of the items themselves, which isn't inherently random (except for a small subset of them, like pokeballs)

In  Brawl, a side effect of using the "Contra Code" to play Zero Suit Samus put her suit parts onto the floor, which could be thrown like a pitcher's fastball and dealt lots of damage.  It was incredibly easy for defending player to pick up some of them to use for themselves, you just tap A when the part is thrown towards you and you catch it.  There were infinite examples of players with a few dozen games against ZSS trying to deal damage with the suit parts as well as 3,000 game veterans of ZSS did, but the ZSS players always got far more mileage out of them, even though they were very nonrandom.  If you chucked 3 suit parts at your partner and he doesn't steal any of them, and then your partner randomly gets a green shell on his side, he throws it at you, and catch it, that illustration wouldn't solve for me the mystery of whether luck and skill are intertwined in game design.



Smash's history of controversy over stage legality would definitely stand on the same side of the fence as DXV's assertion that "not all Spikes want the same thing".  Stages with random occurrences have an uphill climb staying legal, but those that inject varying degrees of variety into gameplay get passionate groups both for and against.

My favorite experience with it was when I got to pick the stage against a large-stagelist-leaning player who is more competitive than I am.  I picked a stage with a super low ceiling, because his character was particularly susceptible to ceiling-kills, then I picked the best ceiling kill character, even though I had almost no experience using that character.  You could definitely say I am "unskilled" at that character, and my opponent stuck with his main.  And I beat him, and asked if losing that way made him reconsider his position on the stage.  He said no.  At the time I thought his opinion was weak in some sort of objective way, but nowadays I have a different view on it, people have their own definitions of what feels competitive to them.

9
Poker, Texas hold em at least, is a very high variance game that allows you to play hands pretty quickly to balance it out.

Often someone bluffs when only a few of the community cards are revealed, and someone with a much stronger hand will call the bluff, the play that should punish that play.  But then the subsequent card reveals will randomly create a straight or flush with the weaker hand that doesn't affect the stronger hand, and the player who had his bluff called claims the pot.

I don't really understand how those sequences can be interpreted as anything but variance.  I don't think the One True Strategy of Poker can involve folding to hands you know are weaker than yours.  Yet yeah, you have the "choice" not to call those bluffs and lose just your ante bet every time you're winning, until death from a thousand cuts pushes you away from the table.

Citing choices as proof positive that good players can "opt out of poker's variance" seems about as insightful as pointing out that chess players don't have to play games that are swingy due to the Queen if they just leave the Queen safe in the starting row.

10
For the online implementation, being able to look through your deck and shuffle it back to how it was and reading through the full log carefully are the same. 

11
I don't think there is much difference between competitive and noncompetitive players from a design perspective.  I've seen a lot of people advocate that there is for a long time but the arguments have always proven weak.

Variance is not necessarily anticompetitive.  Poker gets taken very seriously and yet there is lots of variance.

You alluded to items in smash, but that isn't even necessarily an example of designer intent failing the competitive gamer.  Items were used in tournament smash for like two years or so, but the incident that got them banned was when a bobomb spawned in a location overlapping a fighter's body, making it detonate immediately and deciding the match.  The developers probably didn't actively want items to do that.
And on the other hand, lots of casual players dislike items.

Generally you should just make your game good and both casual and competitive people will like it.  Separate from that, there are some policy debates that are evenly divided, and those include things like taking notes, swiss versus brackets, acceptable sample size (maybe not that one, even) and some other stuff.  That doesn't really have to do with game design itself though.  Donald didn't print "Tomato Garden : Worth 4 VP if you have exactly 7 Silver".  The question of whether you whine about the guy who digs through his discard pile or inspects his deck then re-randomizes it to make perfect decisions, versus the guy who says he doesn't like putting stakes on the game if he can't get to do that, is separate and parallel.

12
An aside: when playing MTG (a highly competitive game), are you allowed to have a deck tracker?  When playing IRL, are you allowed to have a sheet of paper with your decklist on it?  Because I don't think I've ever seen a single MTG player do something like that.  Granted, I've seen Hearthstone streamers use them, but I think Hearthstone has been the butt of enough jokes about being "competitive".

I never felt like I needed a reference of my decklist when playing MTG. It's the same deck every time, and by the time you're good enough at playing it, you'll definitely have the entire decklist memorized because most likely it's just 4 copies of 15 different cards anyway, all of which you deliberately chose to include in your deck to serve a purpose. It's not like in Dominion where you have a different deck every turn and it usually has all sorts of stuff that you only put into your deck because you couldn't get what you wanted under the circumstances, and a lot of the time you even draw a very large percentage of your deck every turn, making it especially important to know what's in it.

Really, if you wanted to make a fair comparison with MTG in this regard, you should ask "when playing MTG, are you allowed to see the entire battlefield, or do you have to turn most of it face down and just try to remember what cards you have in play".

If you expose a facedown morph card temporarily, you're not allowed to late explain that the card's identity is derivable information, and ask to look at it again.

Buuuut nothing stops you from jotting down the name of the card on a piece of paper, just like the thing with peeking at someone's hand.

So, yeah.  Mtg very much does not require you to use memory as a mechanic.

13
no card game that I know allows you to track decks with tools
A digression, but techniques for tracking decks in Pandemic have always been tacitly allowed, and then were explicitly encouraged in Pandemic Legacy Season Two.
Analagously, hand-tracking using a notepad and pen is allowed in MTG.  Of course, that is a "serious" game.  If Dominion simply isn't a "serious" game and should do work not to ever be one, then it makes sense that a veteran would quit it after playing it too much.  Generally the games you stick with even longer than Awaclus has stuck with Dominion are "serious".  Move notation is required in tournament chess, because it's the only way to track the 50 king move rule, even though chess is a "basic serious game" of sorts.

Sirlin encourages you to look through your discard pile and bag to figure out what's left when you play his Dominion, Puzzle Strike.  His viewpoints shouldn't be popular around here, but when you're insisting "nobody does this", then anybody works as a counterexample.

EDIT: Just saw wero's post.

Behavior reminiscent of note taking in MtG includes:

- You can look through either graveyard at any time
- When you use a card that happens to show your opponent's hand (Like Pillage), you can pause the game to jot down what cards are in your opponent's hand. 
- You can have notes that you wrote before the match began in your deckbox, and you can consult those notes between games.  You cannot consult those notes during games.  In tournament play you can change a few cards in your deck out for others, notes about that strategy are what will go in your deckbox.
- You can pause the game to ask a judge for the official rules text of any card.  You can do this even if the card hasn't been seen this game, you can do it just because you think someone MIGHT play that card this game.  (It'd be like, you could ask whether Relic is an attack or not just because Black Market and Peasant are in play)

The second happens even in relatively casual games and would be the most notable comparison.
Oh, so yeah, you cannot consult your decklist during a game.  Notes that were created before the match can only be viewed between games.  In tournament play you usually have your entire deck memorized, so it's not a big deal.  It's not as hard as it might seem, there's lots of duplicates, and if you have a card at all and you know it's a pretty good card, you know you brought 4 of it, the max that can be put in a deck.

14
Other Games / Re: Codenames etiquette
« on: July 06, 2018, 01:23:27 am »
One weird thing about the rules is that you might accidentally give a clue that contains a word included in a bystander, and according to the rules that's an invalid clue.  But you're unlikely to track the bystanders that carefully.

15
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Delusion
« on: July 01, 2018, 02:00:06 am »
im Sure most have some sort of smart device, like an iPad or something. That they use to view these forums.
Poe's law.

16
I'm skeptical that a Golden Deck can beat Big Money without Smithies, Libraries, or heavy trashing being involved.  So I didn't think it deserved a separate mention.

17
Minion seems like it's own separate category.  Like Draw to X, you're actually resolving action cards that are going to get you more than one new card, and like Draw to X you're not exceeding a certain fixed handsize.  But unlike Draw to X, having some junk cards isn't a deathknell, Minion retains a characteristic similar to a traditional village-smithy engine that if your deck needs to retain your starting Estates, you can address that by getting even more engine components to compensate.

The Double Tactician deck is also a special type of Engine, kind of.

18
Dominion General Discussion / Re: is royal seal underrated?
« on: June 23, 2018, 10:56:08 pm »
Royal Seal brings new meaning to the Silver test.  "If Royal Seal wasn't in the Kingdom, would I buy a 5$ Silver here?"  If you say no, and buy a Royal Seal anyway, you're wrong for doing it far more than 90% of the time.


19
Secret Market should probably have Peddler vanilla bonuses if you want it to be as close to Black Market as possible.   

20
Other Games / Re: Anybody played Heart of Crown?
« on: June 04, 2018, 12:33:55 am »
It has a steep price tag.  Is it good?

21
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Transmute here?
« on: June 02, 2018, 07:38:57 pm »
I can't buy it.  Silver is the best 3-4$ card, so choosing a strategy that makes it harder for you to hit the 5$ mark seems so questionable.
And Fairgrounds is here to enable a different way of picking up aqueduct tokens.
If you're buying Estates just to get the tokens, you'll spend even more time in the sub 5$ range.  I'd only buy that on a board with some excellent sub 5$ cards available. 

22
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Plotting cards with DATA
« on: May 25, 2018, 03:05:48 am »
Observation #2: Warehouse and Oasis cluster with the trashers. I guess the point is that they help you deal with junk cards in your deck. But Warehouse and Oasis are fairly neutral in component 3. The positive end of component 3 is clearly actual trashing. I very much don't understand what the negative end of component 3 means. trivialknot suggests "cards that are best in thin decks" but that doesn't match my understanding of Thief and Bureaucrat, which are among the most negative in component 3. I can't think of a card property that is most exhibited by the pair of cards Thief and Outpost. They both often gain you mediocre cards?
I'll take "lower power terminals that gain a card costing 0$-6$ while providing a miscellaneous additional benefit" for 400$ Mr. Trebek.

23
And now it's on android.

Still the best nondominion deckbuilder I've played.

24
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Chase's non randomized sets of 10
« on: April 23, 2018, 10:56:47 pm »
Chase, may I recommend that you put commas between the names of cards? That alone will make your lists much easier to parse.
It's already maximally easy to parse, he's just including some obscure fan cards that he has printed out and likes to include in his games, like "of", "bane:", "shltr", "Combos:bm/men bm/tac bm/fair men/fair tun/tac" and "kings". 

I recommend that you not print out "kings", it has all those kingmaking aspects us DXV fanboys dread.

25
I can see in this image that you typed in "Wishing Well", even choosing to match its font precisely.  Just because you realized a better decision in hindsight, the devs aren't going to come in here and change your rating.

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