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Messages - Kirian

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Dominion Online at Shuffle iT / Re: Loading old games
« on: June 23, 2017, 11:24:39 pm »
Seems this would completely circumvent the payment system? I could just load random game numbers at decision 1 until I found one with all the expansions and play endlessly for free...

There really needs to be a well-formatted log available after the game to anyone with the hyperlink, regardless of subscription.

This.  SO much this.  I can't understand why this hasn't happened yet.

I mean, once you've Ambassadored over a Curse, your opponent doesn't need to buy one.  Since they now have a few.  Unless this was a Defiled Shrine game or something?

But they couldn't easily buy one the next turn before I could get 4 of them into their deck.  Obviously after that it's pointless.

General Discussion / Re: Random Stuff Part III
« on: June 22, 2017, 04:53:10 pm »
Any other former cub/boy scouts here who remember Tom Swifty quotes from Boys Life magazine?

Yup.  Though I'm much older than e apparently.  High school was 23 years ago...

Also: "There's a bear out there," Tom said intently.

Mint/Tomb.  (With no other good trashing)  Free points!

In this case, helped out by IGG.  Play three IGGs, play three Copper, buy Mint, 6 points and got rid of effectively Coppers.

General Discussion / Re: Random Stuff Part III
« on: June 21, 2017, 08:43:13 pm »
Sorry this got a little ranty. Education in the UK is a bit of a mess at the moment, and the new KS2 SATs are certainly not helping the issue. But maybe this was an entertaining or at least enlightening read - or at least helped you get some sleep? Any of those would be a success I guess.

Well, it made me realize that the US isn't the only country doing things this stupidly.


On the original subject, I agree with the earlier statement that increasing a grade is fine, but arbitrarily decreasing a grade is not.  At least at the places I've taught, you're expected to have a grading scale in the syllabus.  So if the scale says 80% is the lowest for a B-, and a student gets 81%, you cannot give them a grade lower than B-.

However, if the student earned a B- for 81% but the grade was entered as a B+, somehow you never get complaints.

My standard scaling system is that I take the median score and scale it upward to 80 (B-/C+ cutoff) if needed, by stretching in a linear fashion; if the real median is lower, everyone gets a scaled score of

score + [(100-score)*((80-median)/(100-median))]

Turn 21

K buys a Curse
K takes 1 Debt from the Curse pile.
K gains a Curse
K repays 1 debt.
K buys a Tax
K adds 2 Debt to the Curse pile.
K buys a Tax
K adds 2 Debt to the Curse pile.

Turn 22

K plays a Throne Room again.
K plays an Ambassador
s gains a Curse.
K plays an Ambassador again.
s gains a Curse.
K plays a Throne Room again.
K plays an Ambassador.
s gains a Curse.
K plays an Ambassador again.
s gains a Curse

Just a couple days ago, I noticed that Tax put a token on the Curse pile and said to my opponent, "Yeah, that'll happen."  And here I am today taking the Tax to buy a Curse, then making it extra expensive for my opponent to do so...

(There was a bunch more going on this game obviously.  #4474233)

General Discussion / Re: Random Stuff Part III
« on: June 15, 2017, 02:10:43 am »


why must humanity be so flawed, one must imagine sisyphus happy, etc.

Peak random, James Joyce couldn't have done better.

General Discussion / Re: Random Stuff Part III
« on: June 13, 2017, 02:58:51 pm »

General Discussion / Re: Random Stuff Part III
« on: June 13, 2017, 02:57:03 pm »
I very rarely go above about 10 unread emails. I read the bits I actually care about, then hit mark all as read for the rest.

Ooooo... that's... actually a good idea.

My Inbox: 1955 unread out of 13085

Other Games / Re: Change the name of this board?
« on: June 13, 2017, 02:55:38 pm »
I rather wish people still played Innovation.

My deluxe box should be in the mail any day now, so hooray for that!

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Rules mess ups you haven't seen?
« on: June 12, 2017, 03:01:45 am »
The only shuffling technique whose bottle neck is not cards still being partially in the same order after the shuffle that I know of is the corgi shuffle and nobody ever does that.

Noted, do not let a corgi shuffle my deck.  It would probably eat my cards anyway.

General Discussion / Re: Bitcoin
« on: June 09, 2017, 06:56:09 pm »
Either way, I think bitcoin's potential is primarily tied to usage because of the hard cap at, I think, 21 millions.
The biggest danger is probably a legitmate rivaling cryptocurrency that is leading to an immense decrease in demand.

Isn't that what Ethereum is?

Other than something you could mine in World of Warcraft, that is.

General Discussion / Re: Maths thread.
« on: June 06, 2017, 10:03:12 pm »
OK, I actually need some stats help.

Assume a value is constrained between 0 and 10.  Do we use the normal formulas for sample standard deviation?  Because mean of 9 with SD 3 doesn't work--it suggests the value might be as high as 12.  Is there some extra constraint that should be used here?

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Trashing vs. Buying
« on: June 06, 2017, 01:36:55 pm »
We've already established that 1: There are cards that help way more than lab and 2: average case comparison is not quite relevant when you already need a swing in luck.

(1) OK, what card would you substitute in there?  Mountebank?  I'm game for that.
(2) If you need a swing in luck, average case is extremely relevant; that's the whole point of the notion of expectation value.  Unless there's a situation where your worst case is better than their best case (i.e. you get to open Chapel/Mountebank vs their Chapel/Silver), the average case is what matters.  (And if your worst case is better than their best case, guess what, your average is better too!)

Example 2: Pathfinding.  For an extreme example, add Magpie.  There are situations where keeping some extra Coppers around to buy Pathfinding will not compromise your ability to draw your deck, but will enhance your economy.

I'm pretty certain with Pathfinding and Magpie on the board you ignore Chapel altogether.

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Trashing vs. Buying
« on: June 06, 2017, 04:00:19 am »
So OK, let's consider a very simple scenario in which both players' first four hands are identical, and the only action cards of interest in the early game are Chapel and Lab, but there's a Market and enough other stuff to make a killer engine.

They both open Chapel/Silver on 3/4.  T3, both draw CCCEE and buy Silver.  T4, both draw Chapel-SCCC.

Turn 4:
P1 Chapels 3 Coppers.
P2 buys a Lab

Turn 5:
P1 draws CE and 3 of Chapel-SSCCCEE (8 cards)
P2 draws CE and 3 of Chapel-Lab-SSCCCCCCEEE (12 cards)

One thing we see immediately is this:  P1 will get to play Chapel again on either T5 or T6.  Their deck has 10 cards.  P2... might not see their Chapel until T7.  But hey!  Let's just assume best-case scenario for P2 and worst-case for P1.  So:

Turn 5:
P1 draws CCEEE and buys nothing
P2 draws Chapel-CEEE and dumps four cards.

Turn 6:
P1 draws Chapel-SSCC, dumps the Coppers.  Buying another Silver would be counterproductive at this point.
P2 draws Lab-SCCC, then draws CC and buys a Gold (or, say, a $5 with +Buy, like Market).

At this point, our status is this:

P1's deck is Chapel-SSCCEEE
P2's deck is Lab-Chapel-GSSCCCCCC, and is guaranteed to draw SC plus three other cards next turn.

P2 likely has an edge here because they got rid of all their Estates and P1 failed to get rid of any, but the chance of P1 not getting rid of some in the next few turns is pretty low.

So if we give our trasher the worst possible outcome and our buyer the best possible outcome, the buyer comes out ahead.

What about the reverse?

Turn 5:
P1 draws Chapel-CEEE and trashes it all.
P2 draws SCCCE and buys another Lab, or a Market perhaps.

Turn 6:
P1 draws SSCCC and buys a Lab
P2 draws SCCEE and... probably should skip another Silver buy.

P1's deck is now Lab-Chapel-SSCCC
P2's deck is now Lab-Chapel-Market-SSCCCCCCCEEE

P2 is guaranteed to draw Lab-Chapel-CC and will definitely finally get to trash some cards on T7.  But their deck is 15 cards thick, and P1's deck will hit $6 or better until they start greening.

P1's best case scenario is hugely better than P2's best case for moving into an engine.
P1's worst case scenario is certainly better than P2's worst case, though likely not by as much.

P1's average case, then, is better than P2's average case.


Sacrifice something for the effect, then take it back with Rogue.  Works best with hybrid cards: Nobles, Harem, Mill, etc. get you a lot of bang for your buck.


Dominion General Discussion / Re: Playing Vassal
« on: June 02, 2017, 05:41:05 pm »
How has no one mentioned Secret Passage with Vassal yet

Or Harbinger

Well, it's already optional, right?  You can choose other options.  So there's no reason for a second "you may."

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Taking Notes - Against the Rules?
« on: May 30, 2017, 09:39:31 pm »
I usually view taking notes during a board game as a "competition-level" rule rather than a "game-level" rule. (Of course, I'm coming at this from chess, where there are loads of competition-level rules, none of which you need to know if you're just playing a friendly game.)

I agree, but it seems odd that someone playing a friendly game would feel it necessary to take notes.


If you're in a competition, then you're obviously bound by the rules to not take notes.

But if it's a friendly game, then you're not really competing in the heavy sense, so you don't need to take notes.

Dominion Articles / Re: Combo: Donate-market square.
« on: May 26, 2017, 01:37:28 pm »
I hadn't even considered this.  This is cwazy.

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Taking Notes - Against the Rules?
« on: May 26, 2017, 01:34:18 pm »

Quote from: DonaldX
"It is not up to any rulebook to say that you can't use a memory aid; rather it is up to the rulebook to specifically allow it, or else you can't use one. It doesn't matter how much the game for you is not about this memorization, how much the memory thing seems tangential to whatever fun the game provides; you do not get to use anything other than your brain to handle that memorization, unless of course you are explicitly playing a variant. You also do not get to - and this is important - scrawl notes to yourself on your belly using your own blood. Games between players are played between players, and "players" do not by default include notebooks or pencils, even makeshift ones that are constructed from the players. Expecting all rulebooks to repeat this is nonsense, and anyway would offend people who don't like to talk about blood.

My original long essay on this topic also addresses the question of glasses; I will leave that as an exercise for the reader here."

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Playing Vassal
« on: May 25, 2017, 02:11:16 pm »
Disagree. There are many times that that with say Chapel E E Si C, you'd just chapel the 2 estates and buy another silver, or Chapel C C C Si and you buy a useful 5 cost and take the hit on the chapel. And the use cases of vassal > silver are only for if chapels the 11th card. since vassal drawing a 6th card chapel is just as often a detriment as it is an advantage
If you aren't trashing as many coppers and estates 2nd shuffle, you are probably doing something wrong.
Vassal chapel opening mostly depends on the availability of villages.

strong 5s easily outweigh chapelling 3 coppers

Chapeling 3 coppers is roughly as good as getting 3 Labs.

And trashing three Peddlers. And getting -$3 that turn. So, not roughly as good at all, really. Not even close.

OK, interesting thought though:

Would you pay $3 to trash three Peddlers and gain three Labs?  Ignore the variable cost on Peddler and consider the "basic" "$4" Peddler.  If my deck is currently thicker than I would like, three Peddlers is worse than three Labs.  So sure, it's not as good as gaining three Labs, but it's definitely better than gaining one Lab.

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Interview with Donald X.
« on: May 24, 2017, 01:31:42 am »
You're going either too far or not far enough here. Chess has no correct set of moves, but rather a theoretical tree of optimal moves that is so enormously big that I will confidently claim that non-enhanced humans will never be able to memorize it. Either way, if you were to assume that humans were capable of memorizing it, you should also assume that they would be capable of making the exact right decision (based on probabilities) at any time in a game of Dominion, leaving the result up to chance alone. However, a game that's decided on chance alone isn't more than a coin flip, and therefore just as dull as a game with fixed winners.

The point is that Chess' actions depend exclusively on your opponent's actions, while Dominion's don't. You can like either and complain about either. I like both.
We have been down this road before.

For people who want to be super correct: chess is a low-luck game, but does have luck. This is trivially true due to the impossibility of complete analysis. As always I then recommend Richard Garfield's speech on luck vs. skill, which you can find on youtube.

I'm going to disagree on an abstract level, ignoring actually playing the game.

I'm all but certain chess will be brute-force solved in my lifetime.  And even if it's not, we can show easily that such a solution exists even if computing technology as of 20xx or even 23xx can't find it.  (The computers described in Star Trek almost certainly had solved chess.)

This is not true of Dominion and other games that involve randomness.  Dominion, like poker, is non-solvable.

Chess has no such randomness; you cannot have a "bad beat" in chess, because there are only the moves that have been made.  The same could be said for many other games: Go, Caylus, Prismata (though setup is randomized), Terra Mystica (random setup), and of course dozens of games that *have* been solved.

Game Reports / Re: Great Board
« on: May 24, 2017, 12:45:08 am »
4C-Hovel just begs for an Island buy.  Then you can get rid of Necro/OGE even without other good trashing.

You can probably skip Amb here, but I think if you do and your opponent does not, you need a couple Moneylenders... and you also need to be careful when your opponent buys a Curses and sends you all 10.  But if you have a Village/Margrave/GM engine going, you can pick one up later if needed with a spare 3.

I'm not convinced on Apothecary here.  You want to rid yourself of those Coppers, and later on the re-ordering just isn't likely to be very good.

Kirian is probably right.  i suspect as your rating goes into the 60s, you're a lot less likely to run into these people if you select good matches.

Eh, I'm only at 55.  I'm betting it dies down in the 40-45 range, but I could be mistaken.

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