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Dominion General Discussion / Re: Nocturne: Yay or nay?
« on: January 04, 2018, 10:31:56 am »
I'm a little disappointed it doesn't have events. I love how you can add them to every set.
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Dominion General Discussion / French rulebook?
« on: August 19, 2016, 05:20:23 pm »
I want to teach my French cousin Dominion. He doesn't speak English an German very well. My French is not that good. A French rulebook would make it a lot easier. But I can't find any. Please help :-)
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Dominion General Discussion / Re: German translation
« on: July 14, 2016, 02:46:49 pm »
Good news: Someone from Altenburger finally answered my request:
There will be female engineers (Ingenieurin) etc. in German Empires.
Quote
vielen Dank für deine Nachricht. Bei der Übersetzung der deutschen Karten für Dominion Empires haben wir die Illustrationen stets beachtet und den Kartennamen ggf. als weibliche Version benannt. So wird es in Empires bspw. auch eine „Ingenieurin“ geben.
There will be female engineers (Ingenieurin) etc. in German Empires.
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Dominion General Discussion / Re: German translation
« on: February 08, 2016, 03:33:41 pm »
I'm glad we had this discussion. I think that most of us agree that gender issues should be paid attention to when translating the cards.
So what are we going to do next? Who will talk to Altenburger? And who does the translation?
So what are we going to do next? Who will talk to Altenburger? And who does the translation?
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Dominion General Discussion / Re: German translation
« on: February 08, 2016, 03:15:28 pm »i personally never heard of a german rulebook (for a game not exclusively aimed at girls) that did this.
The Swiss game "Anno Domini" has female gender pronouns in its rulebook. But that's the only example I know, and maybe this kind of thing is handled differently in Switzerland.
The rulebook for Haggis does it too: http://www.bambusspiele.de/download/haggis.pdf
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Dominion General Discussion / Re: German translation
« on: February 06, 2016, 04:18:03 am »The gender equivalent would be to treat Baker like a woman. Four female Bakers.
Sry Donald, this is a serious question. I've never played Magic and I'm not a native speaker. You mean "for female Bakers" not "4 female Bakers", right?
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Dominion General Discussion / Re: German translation
« on: February 06, 2016, 04:13:09 am »That's the problem. There is the default and there are women. It's pretty much the same discussion like you had about male pronouns in the card descriptions (which is the same in German).
Complain to the German language. It's not something the translator should have the power to change.
A translator should not have the power to change "she" to "er".
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Dominion General Discussion / Re: German translation
« on: February 05, 2016, 05:17:36 pm »
I just read that in the English rulebook for guilds they use the pronoun „she“ for player. In the German translation they use „Spieler“ and „er“. This is another example of how the German editors ignore Donald's/Jay's (?) try for gender equality in Dominion. This time you can't explain it with the male pronoun being the default. It's the same in English!
It's so sad.
It's so sad.
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Dominion General Discussion / Re: German translation
« on: February 05, 2016, 03:12:07 pm »Right, it's a piece of paper that is represented by a picture of a person. It's also represented by a card name. It's logical that the person the card is represented by would match the name the card is represented by. Like how when the card has a picture of a library, they name the card "Library". Or when it has a picture of a Baker, the card is named "Baker". Straight-forward and logical.
When the card is represented by a picture of a female person and also represented by a female card name, it gives you the idea that all the things that are cantrips and give you one coin token (which is associated with baking) are female. If the card is represented by a picture of a female person and the default card name, it gives you the idea that some of the things that are cantrips and give you one coin token can be, for example, female.
That's the problem. There is the default and there are women. It's pretty much the same discussion like you had about male pronouns in the card descriptions (which is the same in German).
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Dominion General Discussion / Re: German translation
« on: February 04, 2016, 09:06:42 am »Perhaps the bigger point, though, isn't so much that people disagree with you. Maybe even they agree, it could be done better (though, what specific suggestion do you have?). The thing about "this doesn't matter much to me" comes in though. It doesn't matter that much to most people, in terms of, sure I agree, but what do you want me to do about it? The big point is, we would have to go pretty far out of our way to try to make any kind of change, and the incentive to do that isn't there.
I started this discussion in the English forum because I can't register in the German forum. Mainly I want to adress the German forum members who support Altenberger with the translation. I thought they might be more open for a discussion (as they know about Donald's effort tfor the visibility of women) than the publisher. My suggestion is to use female job titles when there's a woman in the picture.
I won't deny that I was hoping for at least a little support but I understand that it's difficult if you don't speakt German and you don't care about the German edition.
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Dominion General Discussion / Re: German translation
« on: February 04, 2016, 06:30:31 am »You're not buying 10 copies of the same person, the art is just an example of a Baker that you could possibly be buying.
Have you ever imagined a female baker when you heard the word "Bäcker" (or the Italien word for a male baker)? I haven't. The male word is not "neutral". The female word is as good (or bad) as an example for all possible bakers as the male word.
And the art in Dominion is pretty small. When I play I never really look at the pictures. It's more that I remember colours and shapes. Baker is a good example. It took me quite some time until I even realized there was a woman in the picture (actually it was when a male friend I was playing with announced he was buying a BäckerIN).
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Dominion General Discussion / German translation
« on: February 03, 2016, 09:48:04 pm »
It's not possible to register at the German Dominion forum anymore. So I bringing up the German translation of kingdomcards in this forum again.
When I read Donald's post about how he told the artists to draw more women I was impressed (because it's unusual). The more I was disappointed when I saw the eagerly awaited German rule book. They had ignored all the women in the pictures and just used male forms for all cards except Swamp Hag (I was not surprised though because that's how they did it with previous expansions. But with the many women including the female travellers it's even more obvious).
Now it's like this: All German Dominion cards have male job titles except from: Witch, Sea Hag, Young Witch, Fortune Teller, Duchess, Princess, Swamp Hag and the female knights (right?).
So judging from card names in German we have a Dominion full of men, a nice looking princess (or duchesses) and quite a few women with evil/magical powers (+ 5 female knight cards). Let's assume that Witch, Sea Hag, Young Witch, Duchess, Princess, Swamp Hag and the female knights have female names in English as well. That's why they are female in the German translation. But what about Fortune Teller? As far as I can see it's the only card that has a gender neutral name in English but was translated with „Wahrsagerin“ instead of „Wahrsager“. Why did they do that? What does that tell us about gender stereotypes?
In the English forum market squire was calling using female names "artificial gendering“. I call it „correct translation“. This was my answer: "Baker" in English means "Bäcker" or "Bäckerin" in German. You don't know if the baker is male or female. So if you translate it you have to have a look at the context which in this case is the art. If the art shows a woman* you have to translate "baker" as "Bäckerin".
By the way: isn't language „artificial“ anyway?
In the German forum marktlehrling (market squire) started a poll (Thanks for bringing it up in the German forum). He asked: „Hättet ihr lieber weibliche Kartennamen?“ [Would you prefer female card names]
Option 1: Ja - wo eine Bäckerin gemalt ist, soll auch Bäckerin draufstehen.
Option2: Nein - ich sage doch auch nicht "Brötchen bei der Bäckerin holen"
This is not a neutral way of asking the question. It's not a contradiction to say "Brötchen beim Bäcker holen" if you want to tell someone that you are getting some rolls at a bakery and still translate „baker“ with „Bäckerin“ when it comes to Dominion cards.
So far there is one vote for option 1 and four votes for option 2. I can't vote as I'm not registered. Some of the forum users wrote that they don't really care or find that there are more important things to think about. But obviously they voted against using the female form. To me it looks like the German forum is dominated by male users and so is the group that helps the publisher with the translation (correct me if I'm wrong). I still don't get why not just use the female names if it's not important.
I wanted to write more and answer to more statements but right now I'm too tired.
When I read Donald's post about how he told the artists to draw more women I was impressed (because it's unusual). The more I was disappointed when I saw the eagerly awaited German rule book. They had ignored all the women in the pictures and just used male forms for all cards except Swamp Hag (I was not surprised though because that's how they did it with previous expansions. But with the many women including the female travellers it's even more obvious).
Now it's like this: All German Dominion cards have male job titles except from: Witch, Sea Hag, Young Witch, Fortune Teller, Duchess, Princess, Swamp Hag and the female knights (right?).
So judging from card names in German we have a Dominion full of men, a nice looking princess (or duchesses) and quite a few women with evil/magical powers (+ 5 female knight cards). Let's assume that Witch, Sea Hag, Young Witch, Duchess, Princess, Swamp Hag and the female knights have female names in English as well. That's why they are female in the German translation. But what about Fortune Teller? As far as I can see it's the only card that has a gender neutral name in English but was translated with „Wahrsagerin“ instead of „Wahrsager“. Why did they do that? What does that tell us about gender stereotypes?
In the English forum market squire was calling using female names "artificial gendering“. I call it „correct translation“. This was my answer: "Baker" in English means "Bäcker" or "Bäckerin" in German. You don't know if the baker is male or female. So if you translate it you have to have a look at the context which in this case is the art. If the art shows a woman* you have to translate "baker" as "Bäckerin".
By the way: isn't language „artificial“ anyway?
In the German forum marktlehrling (market squire) started a poll (Thanks for bringing it up in the German forum). He asked: „Hättet ihr lieber weibliche Kartennamen?“ [Would you prefer female card names]
Option 1: Ja - wo eine Bäckerin gemalt ist, soll auch Bäckerin draufstehen.
Option2: Nein - ich sage doch auch nicht "Brötchen bei der Bäckerin holen"
This is not a neutral way of asking the question. It's not a contradiction to say "Brötchen beim Bäcker holen" if you want to tell someone that you are getting some rolls at a bakery and still translate „baker“ with „Bäckerin“ when it comes to Dominion cards.
So far there is one vote for option 1 and four votes for option 2. I can't vote as I'm not registered. Some of the forum users wrote that they don't really care or find that there are more important things to think about. But obviously they voted against using the female form. To me it looks like the German forum is dominated by male users and so is the group that helps the publisher with the translation (correct me if I'm wrong). I still don't get why not just use the female names if it's not important.
I wanted to write more and answer to more statements but right now I'm too tired.
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Dominion General Discussion / Re: Dominion: Empires Announced!
« on: February 01, 2016, 09:32:44 am »
It's gonna be difficult for me to discuss this in English and I'm not sure this is the right place to do it.
Just a few words:
The way they name the cards now it sounds like all bakers were men. And we are not talking about the so called "neutral male plural form" which includes all genders.
"Baker" in English means "Bäcker" or "Bäckerin" in German. You don't know if the baker is male or female. So if you translate it you have to have a look at the context which in this case is the art. If the art shows a woman* you have to translate "baker" as "Bäckerin".
So that means we should give the male art female names and the female art male names?
Just a few words:
if there were female card names, it would sound like all bakers, rangers and storytellers were female in that time. This is a way of artificial gendering that I don't like. I see the image only as an example. The art is there to stimulate the players' fantasy and immersion, not as an exact "this is what you get".
The way they name the cards now it sounds like all bakers were men. And we are not talking about the so called "neutral male plural form" which includes all genders.
"Baker" in English means "Bäcker" or "Bäckerin" in German. You don't know if the baker is male or female. So if you translate it you have to have a look at the context which in this case is the art. If the art shows a woman* you have to translate "baker" as "Bäckerin".
Making the gender of the art different to the gender in the title is the most elegant solution in my opinion, even if people get confused about it.
So that means we should give the male art female names and the female art male names?
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Dominion General Discussion / Re: Dominion: Empires Announced!
« on: January 31, 2016, 05:07:16 pm »
For the German translation. Please make sure they use the female grammatical form when there are "female" people in the art.
So far they've only done it with witches and very few other cards like duchess. But they used "Bäcker" instead of "Bäckerin" for baker, "Wildhüter" instead of "Wildhüterin" for ranger, "Geschichtenerzähler" instead of "Geschichtenerzählerin" for storyteller etc.
I really appreciate that Donald made sure there are more women in the art. But the (wrong) translation spoils it.
So far they've only done it with witches and very few other cards like duchess. But they used "Bäcker" instead of "Bäckerin" for baker, "Wildhüter" instead of "Wildhüterin" for ranger, "Geschichtenerzähler" instead of "Geschichtenerzählerin" for storyteller etc.
I really appreciate that Donald made sure there are more women in the art. But the (wrong) translation spoils it.
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Dominion General Discussion / Re: JSH's True Art Rankings
« on: September 08, 2015, 11:52:25 am »Can we get an official ruling on the gender of the person in the red robe in the middle of the card?
I'm a woman and I'm very glad that Harem is painted in a "funny way". It feels strange to buy a Harem anyway so at least the picture is ironic.
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