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1
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Menagerie Bonus Previews
« on: March 10, 2020, 01:31:01 pm »
I for one would be glad for an expansion of just landscapes. I certainly think there is potential for more Landmarks - you can make ordinarily unplayable cards a must-buy with one of those in the right circumstances.

I would also like to get even more Landmarks, but I think that an expansion of just landscapes (and other horizontal cards) would be a bad move businesswise. I may be wrong, but I suspect that a non-negligible part of potential buyers would think that they will could manage with just their own printouts for those cards, which probably isn't a big thing with cards that are in your deck.

2
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Menagerie Bonus Previews
« on: March 09, 2020, 12:59:52 am »
I think Way of the Rat will make sense any time you want to collect many copies of a spammable card, and playing a copy of the spammable card gives you a lesser effect than buying another. As mentioned, Grand Market is the most obvious example of this.

Also Cities, before they have become good.

3
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Menagerie Previews 5: More Cards
« on: March 06, 2020, 04:14:14 am »
Curses are handed out in turn order, so for B's Black Cat it would be A, then C then D. Then it is again B's turn to play Reactions (maybe they had more than 1 Black Cat, maybe they draw one from the first). When C plays their Black Cat, Curses go to A, then B then D.

Yes, Wayfarer takes into account gains by all players, so handing out Curses/Ruins drop the cost to $0 (until the next gain)

Yes, I also think it is the first Reaction-Attack card.

This can become tricky in that you may have to be strict about reaction order here (not like several people flashing Moats simultaneously). It's even worse: If B doesn't have a Black Cat but C reacts with a Black Cat, then when B gets a Curse B can react with a Sheepdog and draw a Black Cat. But then it's too late to react with that cat!

Edit: Not true, see comment!

4
Ways work any time you play an Action card.

That is interesting! I've been thinking about Crown and the Ways (which maybe will be answered and exemplified in the rule book, making this very moot), but meanwhile I want to check that I got it right.

Since it works any time you play an Action card it should be possible to use the Way even when you play Crowns during your Buy phase.

If you Turtle a Crown it will be played at the start of your next turn. Then you don't have a chance to declare that you want your Action phase to end before you play it (which you might want). I don't know if there is an official ruling, but a rule clarification in the entry for Prince in the Wiki says that the "start of your turn is considered part of your Action phase".

5
Oh, now I'm waiting for the Dominion version of this!


6
Maybe worthy of a new thread, but it'd be good to have a list of cards that the bot is so atrocious with that a board is not even worth playing if they are present.

Counterfeit and Torturer come to mind immediately.

Contraband becomes very good against the bots since they always name Gold (even if you play multiple Contrabands).

7
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: December 11, 2019, 02:12:58 pm »
Cozener is an exception to that rule, but we’ve done a good job avoiding duplicate names, and I believe we should try to continue doing so.

Oops! When I made that second Cozener I didn't know about the previous one. I had some other idea I didn't like for some reason and was looking in synonym lexicons to find a name. Would absolutely have changed it if someone had mentioned this!

8
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: December 05, 2019, 04:22:33 pm »
I'm sorry for being late with this. I though I would have time between work and a dinner invitation, which I didn't, but now I'm here.

I probably won't do as thorough write-ups of the cards as some have done. [added: Thorough or not, actually I wrote more than I thought I would.] It's not as if my views on these cards are more insightful than what others have said or are saying anyway. I am the judge though, so it matters what I think! So here are my comments on the 13 submissions are in the order they were given:

Swap (Event with 7 Artifacts) by spineflu

I like the idea of minor startup differences. Sometimes they are not that minor, like if Jade Pendant is the only +Buy in the game, but then there is Swap, which might get used a lot, which can be fun.

This is in top four.

Clown (Action-Attack) by [TP] Inferno

It's inspired by Jester and is said to scale in multiplayer games like that does. I believe this would work fine for 2-Player as well though (like Jester does, incidentally).

Friends (Action-Attack) by majiponi

It's meant only for 4-player games which makes it too restrictive for this challenge.

Unite (Event) by Aquila

I like how it reuses the Flag artifact in a way that will work fine both if Flag Bearer is or isn't in the game. (Even though it would need a reprint of Flag anyway in this imagined multi-player expansion.)

Introducing this new concept of Artifacts being between players might become a problem with some (imagined future) card that does something general with players' Artifacts, but there is nothing like that now at least. (If this card stood on its own not reusing the Flag of course it could use an Artifact that affects you and your neighbour.

I like the Event having that low cost but no extra Buy, which can lead to interesting decisions on when to buy it for your single buy.

Pot Stirrer (Action-Duration) by NoMoreFun

It would be fun to get the positive effect from it! I think it would need an FAQ to make it clear what being affected by an attack means, though. Are you "affected" by a Swamp Hag when it is played if you don't reveal Moat (or have Lighthouse out or ...) or are you not "affected" by Swamp Hag until you buy a card and get a Curse because of that? Also if there are no Curses left?

I think the first interpretation is the easiest, as when an Attack card is played is when the game "decides" who is immune and not, but I think some players would argue that they were not "affected" by someone playing Pirate Ship or Minion and not choosing the attack option, or someone playing Legionary without revealing Gold, etc.

On the other hand I think that some also would argue that they were not affected by a Young Witch if the revealed a Bane card, even if that's "just" part of following the instructions of the attack they were not immune against.

Story cards (Fragasnap)

I really like that idea of having a property that may disqualify one player, and the winner is determined normally from the others! That can be really interesting, and is obviously not good for 2-player games, so extends the game in a direction not taken before, as I wanted to see!

That could have been a simple Landmark that disqualifies for example a player who has fewer Silvers than any other player, or who has more Victory cards than any other player, or who has a higher combined cost of all their Action cards than any other player, just to take three examples which I think could be interesting (even though I haven't though that much about them, and the last one may be a bit tedious to count).

The Story card concept looks interesting, but for me it looks a bit too complicated to be worth it, and as forkofnature (who commented on this) I'm also a VP counter player, so this uncertainness doesn't suit me.

Usurper's Crown (Artifact) by Artless

Here is another option where one player can be disqualified. I would have liked to test this! But I suspect that often it will just stay out of play, because no one dares to take it. Wouldn't getting double the score of other players often be just too hard?

I wonder if it wouldn't be more interesting with a version which you must take when gaining a Province. On some boards I guess it would lead to no one getting Provs, and players going for Duchies early.

Great Wall (Project) by grep

This looks solid. Personally I'm not that found of players being immune to attacks all the time, since I think attacks make the game more fun. (I would prefer it if playing Champion forced everyone else to discard their Champions, so that there was no eternal immunity even then.)

So it won't be a favourite of mine, but I think it's a good one.

Emissary (Action-Command) by Gubump

This is a card I really would like to play with a few times to see it in action. Actually it gets better and better in my mind just thinking about playing with it, when I notice how exciting that seems to be.

It might be slightly weak in what I wrote about exploring areas that would be harder to do for other C(SO)s, but I see that this would be weak in a 2-player game, so suitable for this imagined expansion for practical reasons.

This is in top four.

Agora (Landmark) by popsofctown

I like the idea of it being good to be in the middle! So very multiplayer-y!

I suspect that 2 VP is too little to matter that much, though. When building an engine, each action card you need multiple copies of will open up the possibility for someone to get 2 VP from that pile. That shouldn't be that much of a deterrent to not get as many as you "need" of the card. Compare that with the 2 VP is what you get for each card with Obelisk.

Flight of Fancy (Action) by forkofnature

The 3+ spirit is there as forkofnature writes, but I don't think it adds anything significant that two different players are naming the cards, instead of the same player naming both of them. So not enough multi-player-specific for this challenge for me.

Tithe (Action-Attack) by Something_Smart

I like the general idea of an attack where it's up to the other players to somehow determine who will get the worst of it. That is also really a multi-player idea!

But since this is an attack, what happens if one or several players are immune against the attack, so there is only one player who discards a card? Does the card cost less to all the cards in the empty set? I suspect most of us say yes, at least if we are math/computer people, but I think it ought to be spelled out.

This is in top four.

Redistribute (Event) by anordinaryman

Sometimes catching up effects in games can be irritating in that they prolong games. But since this leads to someone gaining a good card I don't think it will. I wonder how often it would change how you build your deck, using more $3 and $4 cards. I think it can lead to interesting decisions!

This is in top four.


So which one is my favourite? I'll go with the last one: Redistribute
Congratulations, anordinaryman! You get to do challenge #54.

9
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: December 04, 2019, 09:56:03 am »
24 hour notice! The deadline for submissions is in 24 hours from now.

10
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: November 27, 2019, 05:38:23 pm »
This brings us to the following top 4:
4) Treasure Cove by segura
3) Travelling Shop by Gubumb
2) Tall Tale Teller by NoMoreFun
1) Cozener by pst

Congratulations, Cozener, you win this weak's challenge and will host challenge 53!!

Whee, thanks! Here is the next one:

Challenge #53: Three is company


Make a card(-shaped object) that would be suitable for an expansion meant specifically for 3- and 4-player games!

Their randomizers wouldn't be used at all in 2-player games. Of course there are already over 400 card(-shaped object)s that are good for these games, but here is the opportunity to use ideas that just wouldn't work or wouldn't work well enough in 2-player games. I will judge if I think I'd like to play with the entries and if I think they are exploring areas that would be harder to do for other card(-shaped objects) (instead of just having a random limitation).





11
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: November 24, 2019, 03:17:59 am »
With a Cozener you can get access to some services you wouldn't have access to otherwise. Similar to Black Market, but different, in that the Event you bought will still be available for other players to buy.



Quote
Cozener, Action, $3
+$2. You may discard one of the Cozen events and draw a new one from the Event deck. (Shuffle discards if the deck is empty.) Play any number of Treasures from your hand. You may buy one of the Cozen events, even if you have Debt tokens.

Setup: Make a deck of unused Events, not following setup instructions. Turn over two initial Cozen events from that deck.


I have now playtested Cozener, and it was fun! Often several tokens came into play, sometimes in an asymmetric way because we hurried to remove access to a token moving event to the other player.

During playtest I changed it to the quoted version (and I have edited the original post).

There are two major changes:

You get to exchange one Cozen event before you play Treasures

There are situations where you may want to play Treasures first, for example a Venture to know if you can afford an expensive Event before you decide if you want to discard it. But more often you want to know what you want to buy before you play your Treasures, so it just seemed natural to do it in this order instead.

Now you can buy a Cozen event even if you are in Debt

As with BM not being able to pay off Debt can be irritating, and since many events have Debt costs it's so easy to get into Debt during your Action phase if you are playing multiple Cozeners so I wanted to do something about it. I considered letting Cozener actually have an extra Buy Phase instead of doing this the BM way, but I'm happy I thought of this solution instead, which sometimes has interesting consequences.

And two minor:
  • Now it doesn't explicitly say that you should use all unused Events for the deck, but is less specific (like Black Market):
    I still recommend putting all your unused Events there.
  • Discard instead of putting cards at bottom:
    This is just a practical change – when playing with a full Cozen deck we were never close to using all of it anyway. So by not having to put cards at the bottom of that deck we could just put new Cozen cards over the discarded ones and didn't need to keep track of their order.

12
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: November 20, 2019, 07:15:20 am »
CHALLENGE #52: DRUID NEEDS SOME COMPANY
Design a card whose effect differs per game.

With a Cozener you can get access to some services you wouldn't have access to otherwise. Similar to Black Market, but different, in that the Event you bought will still be available for other players to buy.



Quote
Cozener, Action, $3
+$2. You may discard one of the Cozen events and draw a new one from the Event deck. (Shuffle discards if the deck is empty.) Play any number of Treasures from your hand. You may buy one of the Cozen events, even if you have Debt tokens.

Setup: Make a deck of unused Events, not following setup instructions. Turn over two initial Cozen events from that deck.


There are 34 official Events, so the typical Event deck would have 32 to 34 cards (if playing with all the cards). The only official Event with a setup instruction (that will be ignored) is Tax. It's possible some future Event card will be meaningless if its setup isn't done. Then so be it.

Some events are extra good when you get to buy them during your Action phase, like Alms. I like that the Event you bought will still be available afterwards. (Of course you can play a second Cozener to switch it out.)

Changes Nov 24:
  • Now you get to turn up a new Cozen event before you play Treasures
  • Now you can buy a Cozen event even if you are in debt
  • Don't explicitly say that you should use all unused Events for the deck, but be less specific (like Black Market)
  • Discard instead of putting cards at bottom.
The previous version is here.

13
Recently Road Network and Ambassador in a 3-player game. So nice to return Estates to the supply!

14
Thanks for your reply.
In principle, I agree with you but : (i) I have most expansions, and lugging all of them to my friends' house is not practical;

So bring fewer cards but enough for an evening of fun. That is not the important thing. The important thing is that you don't get your friends to think that this game is about playing certain fixed kingdoms.

15
I'll say the same thing which I said when you asked before. Just bring your cards, mix them, and play with a random setup. That's showing what Dominion is.
Depending on the players you can choose to pass by some cards because you don't want to introduce too many new concepts at once, for example skip Night cards if there are already many new things to learn from previously chosen cards.

Don't play with a kingdom you have selected that "shows off" what you want to show off. That will probably mean a kingdom where you can show off that the strategy you had thought would be the best when you selected this kingdom is better than what your friends can think of at the moment. What you were describing in a previous thread was that you made your friends compare Dominion-with-a-particular-kingdom with other games. Dominion-with-a-particular-kingdom can be a good game, maybe Dominion-with-kingdom-43314432 is really good, but it still can have a hard time being compared to some other games. You would probably get tired of playing Dominion-with-kingdom-43314432 before you got tired of playing Game X (one of your friends' favourite game), and you don't want your friends to make that comparison.

So don't try to show off Dominion-with-kingdom-43314432, try to show off Dominion instead. That's the really really great game that you want them to experince. So do the random kingdom at the table when they are there. They can see how it's done. They can hear you say that "hm, maybe we'll skip Night cards" and get to say "no, that sounds interesting, bring it on!". They know that you haven't thought about this particular kingdom in advance. They really grok that everything could have been different. And the very next game it is.



16
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: October 04, 2019, 01:58:26 pm »
Challenge #46 - But It Wasn’t Even Your Turn, my submission.



Quote
Royal Pardon, Action - Reserve - Reaction, $4

After testing it in play I've changed it so that it doesn't care about costs of cards to trash. It is actually a feature that it can put a couple of Provinces in the trash that then can be brought back, so that shouldn't be avoided.

17
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: October 01, 2019, 05:37:33 pm »
Challenge #46 - But It Wasn’t Even Your Turn, my submission.



Quote
Royal Pardon, Action - Reserve - Reaction, $4

Trash the top card of each supply pile with 3 to 7 cards. Put this on your Tavern mat.

When a supply pile is emptied, you may discard this from your hand or your Tavern mat. If you do, name a card in the trash that you haven’t named with Royal Pardon before, then return all cards with that name from the trash to the supply.

FAQ:
  • A supply pile can be emptied at least by someone gaining the last card, trashing it, or setting it aside (with Inheritance).
  • If several players want to react to a pile being emptied the normal priority order is followed and maybe there is no card left to name for a later player.
  • You may name a card in the trash that doesn't come from the supply (if you haven't named it before), for example Spoils or Princess. Then no cards are returned to the supply. For piles with differently named cards they may end up in a different order when being returned to the supply (as with Ambassador).

You can get a lot of money early to buy expensive things you want, like King's Court or Platinum, and later it will almost surely be enough for a Province, giving even more money than Death Cart, but it's almost a one-shot. Then at the end of the game it can affect the endgame both by making it harder to three-pile and to maybe return Provinces when its pile is emptied. It trashes "popular" cards when played to make it more often piles are emptied and to put some interesting stuff in the trash that can be returned. The "if you haven't named it before" condition is to avoid loops. Yes, the Curses can be brought back several times, but only once per player.

[Edit October 4: Changed which cards are trashed when Royal Pardon is played to care about number of cards but not about cost. Old version is here.]

18
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: September 11, 2019, 11:06:24 am »
Witching Hour and Double Shift have an interesting property that makes them different from Outpost and Mission... Outpost and Mission prevent the extra turn with a very explicit "if the previous turn wasn't yours". Witching Hour and Double Shift both instead prevent it by only granting an extra turn under certain circumstances and making those circumstances impossible to happen on their own extra turn.

The upshot of this is that if you have a game with both Witching Hour and Double Shift (or any 2 cards that use a similar mechanism for preventing infinite turns), you can get infinite turns by alternating the two cards.

I don't think it's a problem, since as you wrote later, "both cards were designed in a world where no other card exists that causes the problem". Also, to actually be infinite turns with both of these you need not only to gain an expensive Victory card each other turn, but also to return it to the supply in time before depleting those piles ends the game!

19
yeah, maybe we should replay the same basic setup and I should try Big money to show a different strategy.

I really advise against replaying the same board, maybe unless those new players explicitly say they want to try the same board because of something they thought of afterwards, but even then switch in a couple of "new" cards instead of cards that are not part of what they want to try next.

You wrote in your original post that those players were not enthralled with the game and thought it was a bit monotonous. Being always different is a big part of what Dominion is and what it is best at! If you think you only have a few games to show it to them before they have formed their opinion, then don't waste that time with games that don't show off that variance.

20
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: September 11, 2019, 02:52:47 am »
Challenge #44: Extra! Extra!
There are only 4 cards that give extra turns so far (Possession, Outpost, Mission, and Fleet). Design another card that gives an extra turn.


Double Shift
Project, $5
After one of your turns in which you gain a Victory card costing more than $5 you get an extra turn. During that extra turn, whenever you would gain a Victory card, instead gain nothing.

A project that isn't interesting until you've started greening, and doesn't help you (directly) with that greening, but still let's you continue to improve your deck so that you can start getting Provinces earlier.

Besides Province the existing Victory cards costing more than $5 are Colony, some Castles, Harem, Nobles, Fairgrounds and Farmland, and they will all result in a bit different Double Shift games. (This could be a welcome big boost for Harem!)

21
Hence, what kingdom would you recommend to experienced card games players (including deck builders)

Just take all cards you have and make a random Kingdom from it. Then a new random Kingdom for the next game, etc.


22
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: September 06, 2019, 06:25:20 pm »
Challenge #43: Design a card (or card-shaped thing) that involves revealing your hand




Confessional (Action, $4)
+$2
Reval your hand. If one of the revealed cards costs less than all the others, trash that card, and then +2 Cards and +2 Actions.

As for Menagerie the revealing is to show if you are to get the fun or the boring result of the card, but also to show which card to trash in the former case. It can be used to get rid of starting deck cards and other bad stuff, but without some support like something that discards, it doesn't hit a single card that often in the beginning. It can also be used to get things rolling by sacrificing better cards. I even trashed a Vampire with it late in a game where this was tested. It is sometimes very good, but often you just get a boring terminal $2, and sometimes you don't even want to play it at all.

It sounds like this would be very difficult to get it to work... you almost have to have exactly a single Copper in hand when you play it. Or a single Estate with no Coppers. Both of those situations are going to be pretty rare. It could be strong when combined with cards like Hamlet or Warehouse; but you basically have to have a card like that with it. Most of the time when you play this, it will just be a terminal Silver; and occasionally it will just be a dead card because you don't want to play it as it would force you to trash a good card.

The reason I think it works (it has when I've tried it, although I certainly need to test it more) is that it offers both trashing and a good effect. If you don't have any other trashing you welcome what you get, so it's worth betting. And if you have other trashing, that will help Confessional and you will get the good effect more often. For example just trashing a couple of Coppers with Moneylender will make Confessional much better in finding the rest of them, finding Estates, and maybe eventually also get rid of the Moneylender when that has become deadweight. Also, in most cases where you don't want to play it because you have only good cards, those good cards include other Action cards that you want to play instead anyway.

23
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: September 05, 2019, 03:06:20 pm »
Challenge #43: Design a card (or card-shaped thing) that involves revealing your hand




Confessional (Action, $4)
+$2
Reval your hand. If one of the revealed cards costs less than all the others, trash that card, and then +2 Cards and +2 Actions.

As for Menagerie the revealing is to show if you are to get the fun or the boring result of the card, but also to show which card to trash in the former case. It can be used to get rid of starting deck cards and other bad stuff, but without some support like something that discards, it doesn't hit a single card that often in the beginning. It can also be used to get things rolling by sacrificing better cards. I even trashed a Vampire with it late in a game where this was tested. It is sometimes very good, but often you just get a boring terminal $2, and sometimes you don't even want to play it at all.


24
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: August 31, 2019, 06:24:02 pm »


Inherited Lands
Project, $10
At the start of your turn, you may discard a Victory card to gain a Duchy.

Get a whole bunch of Duchies for the price of two! If that's what you really want.

I think this is too expensive. Keep in mind that you first you have to spend a turn buying this instead of a Duchy, then you can only gain one if you happen to have a Victory card in your 5-card hand.

Hm, maybe so. Actually I first had it without discarding Victory cards, but just automatic gains for the same price.

25
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: August 30, 2019, 05:40:46 am »


Inherited Lands
Project, $10
At the start of your turn, you may discard a Victory card to gain a Duchy.

Get a whole bunch of Duchies for the price of two! If that's what you really want.

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