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Dominion General Discussion / Re: How carefully/slowly do you play?
« on: October 20, 2017, 10:27:13 am »
Inexperienced players: Very slow
Novice players: A little slow
Intermediate players: Fast
Veteran players: Slightly less fast, usually
Expert players in high stakes games: Somewhat fast, but with some EXTREMELY slow parts at critical junctures. If the board is complex, this could be slow for the entire game.

Take a look at how FiveThirtyEight formats their Slack chat round tables. I think that’s a good way to frame this sort of post.

Also yeah, four people, maybe four plus a host. Also, edit and merge people’s responses together generously.

But like, otherwise this shit is dope.

Dominion: Nocturne Previews / Re: Is there any update on Nocturne?
« on: October 18, 2017, 01:56:17 pm »
It’s really quite simple: manufacturing tooling costs a lot of money. Stocking multiple different kinds of parts costs a lot of money, too. It’s just way cheaper to use the same stuff across multiple sets, by like a lot. It’s just the economies of scale and mass production.

And that is the reason that drive-thru ATMs have Braille buttons.

Probably, yes, but this also has utility when the blind person is the left side passenger. This is typically how caretakers will bring blind people to ATMs without having to get their PIN.

Is there a context in which it's not simpler and clearer to refer to them as "cards and events?"

"Donate is the most OP card in Dominion" is simpler and as clear as "Donate is the most OP card or event in Dominion".

This creates a lot of potential confusion, and is just lazy. How hard would “oh, this card isn’t a card, so ignore things that refer to cards when thinking about this card” be to understand? Quite hard.

“Kingdom piece”, “Kingdom component”, “card or event”, whatever, these won’t literally create rules confusion out of pure laziness...

Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Beat the Bot #2
« on: October 18, 2017, 08:17:10 am »
I didn’t look at the bot, just the kingdom so far. Any love for a Crossroads / Storeroom / Silk Road rush here? You can probably pretty consistently get $8+ and 2+ Buys on this board. The board might even work better if you thin Copper out, somehow. Probably not faster than Altar Duke Duchy, but maybe that’s a thing.

Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Beat the Bot #2
« on: October 17, 2017, 07:43:55 pm »
At first I thought these puzzles were “write a bot that beats my bot”, and after a half hour of fiddling in round 1 I realized you were supposed to play the bot. :)

Dominion: Nocturne Previews / Re: Is there any update on Nocturne?
« on: October 17, 2017, 07:31:43 pm »
It’s really quite simple: manufacturing tooling costs a lot of money. Stocking multiple different kinds of parts costs a lot of money, too. It’s just way cheaper to use the same stuff across multiple sets, by like a lot. It’s just the economies of scale and mass production.

Dominion Articles / Re: Dominion 101: What is an engine?
« on: October 17, 2017, 07:29:30 pm »
I don't care if you are a sect member
We don't look kindly on ad hominem attacks around these parts, mister.
And I don't look kindly upon exclusionary "we do and call things our way in our club so you either comply or STFU" games.

This is, quite literally, exactly what you are doing. You are saying “this is my definition I use in a completely different context and everyone else who uses any other definition is wrong”.

We’re giving you the definition *basically everyone who plays Dominion* uses. There aren’t dozens of threads by other board gaming fans here talking about your specific definition, even though we have dozens of people who play those games. I really don’t think it is nearly as common or universal across all similar games as you’re implying, honestly. But in any case, we are saying, this is what everyone means when everyone says it here, and that’s not going to change because one dude who plays a bunch of completely different games uses it completely differently.

What’s your end game here? What do you hope to get out of this?

Dominion Articles / Re: Dominion 101: What is an engine?
« on: October 16, 2017, 04:13:03 pm »
An engine is something that works reliably all the time. Be it an actual engine, a board game engine or a Dominion engine.

Clearly you’ve never worked on a car before. :)

No but seriously, your definition isn’t used by anyone else in the Dominion community. Our definition is for our game and is specifically useful for our game because of the way we use it. Let’s not make our communication shitty because you’re stubborn.

Scheduling / Re: Season 24 - C2
« on: October 16, 2017, 08:53:17 am »
hit me up on discord

my general availability, all GMT-4 until the first Sunday of November:
weeknights: 5 PM to 10 PM
weekends: varies, mornings (10 AM or later) preferred

did I mention to hit me up on discord

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Traveler Line: Orphan
« on: October 12, 2017, 10:41:53 am »
Just some style notes, not commenting on or endorsing the effects...

On Witch Hunter, the comma goes before “for”, not after.

On Heretic, the effect is not actually conditional on revealing your hand - you could choose not to, claim to have no Actions or Treasures, then conduct the exchange. Here is a wording:

While this is in play, at the start of your Buy phase, you may reveal a hand with no more than 2 Action and Treasure cards. If you do, exchange this for a Mountain Hag.

On Mountain Hag, the structure is also confusing, because it’s not clear if opponents can gain more than one Curse from it or not, and also it doesn’t integrate well with the Coin token pay. The “copy of it” language is unnecessary since only one card can be gained this way. Also saying “Curse Card” is redundant. Here is a wording example if a Curse is gained per Coin token paid, conditional on successful return:

Take 3 Coin tokens. Then pay any number of Coin tokens. For each Coin token you paid: reveal a Curse from your hand, return it to the Supply, and if you did return a Curse, each other player gains a Curse.

Dominion Articles / Re: Dominion 101: What is an engine?
« on: October 12, 2017, 08:10:08 am »
This is pretty great for a basic article, and I think a lot of these comments could make it into a follow up article about the concepts of other kinds of engines. I think it’s important to start with this as your base so that you can branch out to sketchier low draw engines later, rather than starting at Big Money and adding Good Stuff.

But maybe change Draw to cycling, and point out that draw is far more effective cycling than not-draw? We’ve all seen magic Forum engines before, and using cycling instead of draw as a term accommodates those cantrip based engines we all love (since the payload also cycles you need less draw).

Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Beat the Bot #1
« on: October 11, 2017, 08:36:50 am »
I could not get the bot to launch. Even after adding to the Exceptions List, it still gave me a warning about self-signed apps running.  not

That would do it! Clearly I shouldn’t run your simulator before I have my morning coffee :)

Dominion General Discussion / Re: How do YOU pick interesting kingdoms?
« on: October 11, 2017, 08:06:34 am »
Another method I have used before I call “Black Market Drafting” because it works similarly to the Black Market deck. Each player gets 3 cards, chooses one to be in the kingdom, and discards the rest. Repeat until there is a kingdom. This tends to result in slightly less overpowered kingdoms than straight up picking.

Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Beat the Bot #1
« on: October 11, 2017, 07:08:56 am »
I could not get the bot to launch. Even after adding to the Exceptions List, it still gave me a warning about self-signed apps running.

Dominion FAQ / Re: Maximum Possible VP?
« on: October 11, 2017, 07:04:30 am »
The main problem with Ambassador loops is they require all opponents to either have Champion or Lighthouse out so they don't receive the card you're returning instead.

I only really consider two kinds of decks - engines and rushes. Engines try to chain Actions to gain greater control over the game / the opponent / the end-state; they generally take longer to build with a higher reward at the end. Rushes generally aim to end the game (or secure the majority of points) before an Engine could get enough momentum to secure a lead.

"Big Money" is a rush, to me. I don't like the term "Big Money" in 2017 because a lot of these decks don't rely almost exclusively on expensive Treasures + terminal draw anymore. Cantrips, non-drawing terminals, etc. can all be important part of what's essentially a Province rush (or points rush, if you want to be more general than that).

But why call Money a rush when clearly Rebuild and Ironworks / Gardens are rushes? These aren't actually all that different. Money decks traditionally aim to make the average turn produce $8, by adding Treasures and a few other cards. Rebuild rushes try to make the average turn upgrade Victory cards. Gardens deck try to make the average turn result in getting two plus cards. All of these decks generally pass on adding consistency at the expense of building speed.

The fundamental difference between these two styles of deck is that rushes aim for a powerful average turn while engines generally aim for a consistent turn that ideally draws the entire deck.

I know a lot of people won't use these concepts, and that's fine, I'll just describe things the way it's being described in the thread. I just thought I'd state my preference and the arguments in favor of it.

If the -2 cost token was on Adventurer at the start of the game (as in without having to spend a buy or coins to move it there), it would still be a super weak card.

Definitely still very weak. But at least I would buy it sometimes, in the absence of other draw, when I could use a sifter to turn Treasure draw into something actually useful. At $6 I’ve used it for draw maybe once ever - the other draw was Witch and there were enough Curses around that I preferred Treasure for sure to the chance of getting an Action and being more likely stuck with Curses. Still obviously one of the weakest draw cards though.

As for other cards and how they would be better with tokens on them by default. Chancellor would be reasonable, actually even kind of good if it had +Buy. Spy as a Village would be mid-tier; as a draw card it would be basically better than Lab. +Action on Tribute would make it far less risky. +Buy on Coppersmith would legitimately fix the card altogether, I’m pretty sure. +Card on Secret Chamber at least guarantees $5 but is still trash.

Dominion FAQ / Re: Maximum Possible VP?
« on: October 09, 2017, 10:46:02 am »
Awalclus, can you explain? I'm not seeing it

Highways/Goons/Trader/Forum seems quite ridiculous, it should be stopped when the supply is out of silvers. I suppose it's an extreme case.

You can still prevent the gain of Forum with Trader even without Silvers to gain instead. So you can do this indefinitely.

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Masquerade
« on: October 08, 2017, 12:37:29 pm »
Unless there's Militia or something, it's not really that bad. Try not to trash much faster than they do. Keep 2 or 3 Copper around. Occasionally you end up giving them a Silver or a component, but it's probably not a big deal. Sometimes it's awful but not often. You'll live.

Crown is never played “as an a Action” or “as a Treasure”; it is always played “as an Action-Treasure”. It just does different things depending on the phase played in.

Unless Crown draws due to a token or Enchantress, that’s the only edge case I can think of. The token thing is pretty common.

(I think the Enchantress effect will actually affect Crown in the Buy phase too, it’s just way shittier to play it then)

Throner - Patrol - Villa

Yes, more crazy villa magic. Throne (or crown or KC or whatever) your Patrol, drawing a metric ShIT ton of cards and clearing out the majority of your green, then buy villa, so you can play your engine that much more smoothly with the lack of green. Even better when you have Mill (like I just had in an IRL game, resulted in two consecutive double province turns fairly quickly)

"If you terminal draw Action cards you can buy Villa to play them! It's like magic!"

The classic one is playing Crown in your Action phase without Action cards in hand.

Sauna with autobuy is pretty terrible online as well; say you have a Sauna in play, two Silvers and three Coppers in hand and click on a Gold to buy it. After a Silver is automatically played, you will get to trash a Copper and even though you still have enough $ in hand to buy the Gold, you will not automatically play the rest of your treasures and will not get the Gold. You're now stuck with just a Silver in play, unable to play any treasures barring an undo.

These are the two worst offenders.

Seriously, someone come up with an edge case where all you have in hand is Crown and Treasures, and you want to play the Crown as an action.  (Note that the Crown counts as an Action in play for the purposes of buying Peddler, even when played as a Treasure.)

+1 Card token on Crown

This isn’t even like a niche edge case either - this is somewhat regularly a good idea to do and it’s important to allow it.

Dominion Online at Shuffle iT / Re: Subscription pricing & structure
« on: October 05, 2017, 08:53:25 am »
Man, they're giving you, essentially, 40 bucks.  I think that's pretty much the opposite of terrible, given they never saw any of the money that went to MF.

Sure, they didn't but Jay and Donald hopefully did (unless MF/Goko screwed them over totally). Didn't Donald say that earlier purchases would be honored? They could just say to ShuffleIT, "we won't demand royalties on the expansions people already paid for in earlier incarnations of Dominion Online".

I don't play nearly enough to justify a subscription cost. I would pay the price of, say, a good full price Steam game, for a new implementation of Dominion. But it sucks to have to pay for the licenses all over again.

This business model is screaming "casual players not wanted!". Apropos steam games, my library of little-played/unplayed steam games suggests that casual-hostile pricing policies may not be the best policy.

I agree with this. I play sometimes, but it is a lot to spend if I play rarely.

I think what misleads people about this is that the term subscription implies a recurring fee. It doesn’t actually recur here! You are actually only paying for fixed blocks of time, and you have to opt in to paying again. This is what makes it cheaper.

Say you get into Dominion for a week every 3 months. You can pay roughly $2 for access to all the cards for a week or so (the pricing includes a fixed transaction fee, so that you are slightly incentivized to pay for more at once, but ignore that for a bit). That would be like, $8 a year. Compared to the $48 cost of Dominion on Goko, and especially compared to the $100 cost on MF, you need to play for six years (or twelve years!) at that rate for it to cost you more. You spend more on a single take out meal than you’d spend on Dominion all year this way.

And you don’t even have to plan how often you get into Dominion and do this on some schedule - all you have to know at the time of purchase is how long you want to pay for, until you either lose interest or are willing to pay the small transaction fee again to extend. You can be as conservative as you wish.

The only way this ends up costing you more (as a new player, compared to Goko and MF) is if you play for more than 1.5/3 consecutive years. At which point, you’re supporting an online service, that sort of makes sense.

Lurker / Vineyard - I mean, this isn’t rocket science. Lurker lets you gain Actions, Lurker is itself a cheap nonterminal pile, Vineyard is easily worth a bunch of points in such a game.

For extra seasoning, add trash for benefit like Transmogrify, which is also nonterminal, and can be followed up by playing Lurker to regain the trashed card. I would often use T-mog to transform Lurker into a $3 cantrip, then use the other Lurker to regain the Lurker I just threw out.

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