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Messages - Chris is me

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I didn't vote in these rankings but I think I would have been one of the madmen who voted ruined village somewhere other than last -- even as high as second.

~80% of games RV is the worst. But for probably 75% of those 80%, the impact of the other ruins not named ruined market amounts to something like "I played survivors once and discarded an estate".

In 20% of games RV thru one way or another becomes a cantrip. That's a hell of a lot better than any of the others (except ruined market, again) realistic optimal scenarios.

A surprising amount of ruins games don't become money slogs in my experience, too, which ups the odds of those scenarios slightly.

You must be confusing Ruined Village with Ruined Library.

draw to x and variants exist far more than champion or other arbitrarily free amounts of actions.

Is this true? There are like... maybe five draw-to-x cards, right? Library, Watchtower, Jack, Cursed Village, arguably Minion. There are a lot more ways to get a lot of +actions than that, I think.

yes, but in a small percentage of the game with +actions are you so overflowed with +actions that you're freely using ruined library, whereas ruined village works with draw to x a larger percentage of the time.

Also I'd add shanty town, conspirator, magic lamp, horn of plenty... as relevant to this discussion

this is like the opposite of what happens, thereís like four draw to x cards total. I see two Villages way more than I see Watchtower, Library, Cursed Village, or Jack.. ruined library is wayyyyy better. Ruined Village is definitely the worst. itís not even close dude.

Dominion League / Re: Season 25 - Results
« on: January 20, 2018, 05:08:54 pm »
C2: chris is me 2 mikechicke 4

I put Border Village somewhat lower, and I think part of it has to do with my ranking method, which involved first ranking all villages together.  I have a hard time seeing Border Village as particularly good among villages.  Yeah sure it only costs an extra $1, and not even a buy.  But $6 isn't a good price point for a village, you'd rather have something that costs $3 or $4 so you can pick it up earlier, on low hands, or with gainers.  I put Border Village above a plain Village, but below several of the villages with nice utility.

Border Village is at least in the top 3 Villages (Wandering Minstrel and, I guess Champion? go above it). Itís very hard to understate how much faster it is to build an engine when you need half as many gains and generally less total economy to do so.

Dominion General Discussion / Re: what's up with cursed gold
« on: January 18, 2018, 11:38:07 am »
I have a similar issue with catapault, where I just have no idea how often you should trash coppers v estates the first few plays.

Depends on how much the discard attack is going to hurt (tracking opponentís deck, $5s or $4s or even 3ís available, do they have their Catapult in hand, etc). All I know is Iím usually wrong.

Cost reducers + Will o' Wisp: Will o' wisps basically turn into labs.

Just buy labs instead.

what if, instead of doing this again, we didnít do this

Help! / Re: 2 Bold Strategies to Choose From, Which One Would You Go For?
« on: January 18, 2018, 09:53:30 am »
You canít break 100 points with just Feodum. At most 8 Feodum is 80 points - with every Silver. Tower helps, obviously, and then you get to 120, but I just donít see emptying the Silver pile to be a quick thing. Every Silver you gain quickly is a stop card stopping you from quickly getting more Silver...

Meanwhile, giving the GK player full run of the pile gets them 10 points per Victory card, and with Butcher, Island, AND Castles, thereís tons they can do. They win the long game for sure.

If you try and add GK to a Feodum strategy, you end up not consistently drawing them, due to the 40 dead cards in your deck.

FortuneĎs Rating is probably based on how powerful the card is once you have it, but not its overall impact on the game. A typical situation is that you have built a reliable engine, hit $8, buy fortune, then pay debt / buy a province, then buy two provinces twice. It takes you 4 turns to get five provinces, which is one turn faster than buying them one by one without fortune.

That makes it worth going for, but the game didnĎt change by that much. You merely need one turn less - nice to have, but in terms of impact, itĎs far away from meriting place 5, at least it shouldnít be ahead of potentially gamechanging cards like e.g. Lost Arts, City Quarter or Inheritance.

Itís very rare that you only have $8 in your deck when you buy and play Fortune. For one it comes with a free Gold, so youíre already up to $22 on the first play right there. Additionally you have generally more economy than $8 in a potent engine deck buying multiple components consistently, as even $1 more than $8 lets you double Province immediately after buying Fortune if you draw deck. So itís much more worth it than you imply - itís not just one turn faster at getting to 5 Provinces.

The most interesting games with it are where Fortune is the only +Buy - in these cases, it is usually correct to buy a second Fortune to get a third card every turn, as long as the game isnít literally about to end.

There is a lot of competition on this list though - and I generally think cards below it should be higher, so maybe itís the card that has to fall. I fully agree with Pathfinding and Lost Arts being recognized for their power now, though.

Dominion General Discussion / Re: $3 Cost Card Rankings Bottom Half
« on: January 17, 2018, 06:46:02 am »
Harbinger could have been a great card if it wasn't designed with the same flaw as Counting House. Replace "+1 card" with "You may gain a Silver" and it would be an interesting card and never whiff. Too bad Donald X wanted to keep Bureaucrat for some reason (hopefully he'll also cover the $4s).

I would almost never buy the card youíre describing, but I Buy Harbinger a reasonable amount of the time. Itís a $3 vanilla cantrip - it doesnít have to be earth shattering.

The problem is situations where it works (it appears in the middle of a shuffle and the good cards are at the beginning) are unpredictable/luck based, and the cards that enable it contradict the need for it. At least the other $3 Cantrips, while not strong, either have a strategy to being useful (eg Merchant, Market Square, even Wishing Well) or are always useful despite being weak (Caravan Guard). Harmless and occasionally nice if you're lucky seems more like the domain of $2 cards, and even then they're a bit of a waste of space.

Perhaps I'm biased as every game I play with it, most of the time the card doesn't even work, sometimes due to its own +1 Card,  and attempts to make strategic use of its effect (eg cycling an early power card) always failed. Conversely, Scavenger is one of my favourite cards and very fun with Lost Arts.

Youíre really missing the point. If it didnít draw, you would basically never buy it. It would be horrible to exchange 1 card in hand in order to put one on top of your deck. An effect that minor has to have minimal opportunity cost to work.

Youíre never like ďoh, Harbinger, thatís a critical card hereĒ, but you get a few because why not, and then hey, you got to topdeck that card you gained midturn with Workshop, neat. Or maybe itís a sloggier game and you got another play of Mountebank in this shuffle - cool. Itís a vanilla $3 cantrip, donít expect a lot of it. The situations where the draw hurts it are really only in the exact moment where you have zero cards in deck, and thatís it.

Let's scrutinize the top 3 with a statistical eye.

Notice that Mountebank has, by far, the highest median on this list.  In fact, more than half of the voters voted Mountebank at 2nd place or higher, and it received 18 1st place votes (considerably higher than Wharf's 6).  Mountebank's average is dragged down by a couple extremely low outliers (below 20%) and a few more votes around the middle, some of them errors by high-rated players.  Mountebank: you're still #1 in my heart and mind!

A related question: the rankings show weighted averages, un-weighted averages, and medians. Why not also show the weighted median?

I am not sure what the phrase ďweighted medianĒ would mean in this context. How would you calculate that?

I did some simulation of Sentry and Junk Dealer that I partially discussed here:

Of note, assuming in either case you buy 2:
Sentryís odds of trashing 2 cards more than once are just shy of 50%. The odds of trashing 2 cards more than twice are just under 1/6 (note how this correlated to the odds of opening 5/2).

Double Sentry trashes ~5 cards on average by Turn 10, which is around the turn Double JD trashes 5 cards assuming no other cycling.

I think both are great cards. I think JD is ďthe better cardĒ. I think on boards with both you buy Sentry first if you can hit $5 before the end of the second shuffle, then you buy JD(s) after that.

I think both are clearly better than Upgrade - neither have a significant negative effect on your current turn, which is huge. Upgrade does by reducing your hand size without providing compensatory economy. All 3 are very good though.

Also surprised that Upgrade is so high. I love Remodel and its cousins but 'costing exactly one more' is pretty limiting.
It's also an opportunity.  It's much better at trashing coppers than remodel.

I agree about the coppers, Remodel sucks at that, but comparing to Remodel is not of great significance to this list, since Remodel is a 4-cost.

If we're talking early game, instead of Upgrade you could get Count to trash your hand, or Hunting Party and mostly skip over coppers, and so on, but both of these are ranked lower than Upgrade here. A cantrip also doesn't seem to be especially valuable in the first few turns, where terminal collision is unlikely. Is Upgrade that good for turning Estates into 3-cost in the early game?

I don't know, I just don't see why Upgrade's abilities put it in the top ten, and I am curious to learn what I am failing to understand. There are several other cards in the top 20 that could conceivably be more critical than Upgrade in any given kingdom, like Minion, Avanto and Rebuild.

Trashing coppers without using a terminal action and drawing a card to replace itself is great.

Trashing Estates to gain a $3 is great (at worst Silver).

After that, Upgrade isnít useless. If there are power $4s, a Silver gainer pairs well with Upgrade, or even trashing the Silvers you already had. One common trick is to get 2-3 Upgrades and then Upgrade the extras into Golds.

For all of the reasons Remake is far and away the best $4, Upgrade is good. Youíre focusing too much on the Remodel-like effect and too little on the thinning - Remodel canít thin at all because of the phrase ďup toĒ, but Upgrade can because of the word ďexactlyĒ.

Honestly I think the card would be basically just fine as is if it was nonterminal. The economic output that turn would be equivalent to, say, a Candlestick Maker or Lighthouse - just +1 money but with a stop card. At the same time, it would be easier to incorporate into both money strategies and engines, as it wouldnít be competing as hard for terminal space, and Throning it would be more productive. I donít think it would be ďtoo goodĒ nonterminal either, it would still be at best an average card.

Could someone better at the game than me contrast Tactician and Capital?  Outside of what I thought were fairly rare abuse cases, they seemed functionally similar enough (get big stuff all at once, but pay for it in tempo) such that I am surprised to see so many cards between them.  I figure I must be missing either how easy it is to circumvent Tactician's on-play cost or else am misunderstanding something fundamental.

I honestly would never have paired the two cards as similar or related, even after reading this explanation. You arenít playing Tactician primarily to produce larger buys - itís to kick off an engine / megaturn / serve as a restricted but powerful form of draw. Capital does basically none of that.

I donít know what you guys are talking about, Mine sucks unless you have *tons* of time, which is usually only the case if there is a strong attack on the board that youíd have to skip otherwise.

Thereís the occasional boards where thereís no Copper trashing and you can Mine your staring treasures into Crowns eventually or whatever, but those are pretty rare. Itís just underwhelming.

Cursed Village + Fishing Village

Not only is FV a decent source of virtual coin, being able to play a bunch of terminals before playing a CV increases the CV draw significantly.

hm, I think I would go for Watchtower/Library and FV and skip CV if all three were available. Not sure if the additional actions justify the extra $2 expense and being Hexed (though many Hexes fizzle when issued during the Buy phase).

It absolutely does justify it. The Hexes are for the most part not that bad (lots of them do nothing during the Buy phase), and nonterminal draw is just better than terminal draw for all sorts of reasons that should be obvious. Why make your deck difficult to use when you donít have to?

Along the lines of the above, Conclave + Cursed Village at start of turn gives you 3 Cards 3 Actions, allowing you to play two terminals before your next CV so you can draw 3 cards again.

Dominion League / Re: Season 25 - Results
« on: January 14, 2018, 11:09:31 am »
C2: Chris is me 2 - Jimmmy 4

Dominion General Discussion / Re: $3 Cost Card Rankings Bottom Half
« on: January 13, 2018, 09:40:41 am »
Harbinger could have been a great card if it wasn't designed with the same flaw as Counting House. Replace "+1 card" with "You may gain a Silver" and it would be an interesting card and never whiff. Too bad Donald X wanted to keep Bureaucrat for some reason (hopefully he'll also cover the $4s).

I would almost never buy the card youíre describing, but I Buy Harbinger a reasonable amount of the time. Itís a $3 vanilla cantrip - it doesnít have to be earth shattering.

Let's just say that there are very few boards for 2-player games in which you want to get them.

Fixed that for you. Let's dispel this rumor that Pirate Ship is stronger in multiplayer games. Pirate Ship's weakness doesn't come from the chances that you'll whiff and not get a token when you play it. It comes from the fact that when you do get a token, you've also helped your opponent at least as much as you've helped yourself.

It's true that multiplayer gives the possibility of getting a token while only helping 1 opponent and not helping another... which perhaps is a slight strength increase. But not much.

Pirate Ship isnít stronger in multiplayer games because of the reduced miss chances (though thatís also a plus). Itís stronger because youíre being attacked by other Pirate Ships much more often, and thus you can quickly run low of or out of economy without a good source of virtual coin, of which Pirate Ship is one. This doesnít mean Pirate Ship is the best or anything, but thatís the mechanic in which it gets stronger with more players.

Skulk is slightly better than it was ranked, as it is a solid opener, the Hex attack is actually disruptive, and the Gold gives you enough economy to skip Silver and use your $3 on something else.

Poacher is also really underrated. The empty piles thing is a bummer but that doesnít change the strength of the card in the beginning of the game.m, and if piles do empty itís at worst TFB fuel.

But by far the most underrated card here is Mission, which should be in the top 20.

It is three ranks higher on the unweighted list. It is three ranks higher in the unweighted list,

I donít know what youíre talking about. I donít know what youíre talking about, I donít see anything duplicated up there. :)

The Best - Cards (Part 2/2, Top Half)
#22 ▼11 Fool’s Gold (Hinterlands) Weighted Average: 48.5% ▼21pp / Unweighted Average: 54.3% / Median: 54.6% ▼23.6pp / Standard Deviation: 22.32%

Fool’s Gold has been steadily tumbling down the rankings from a peak at #2, but this is the biggest drop of the year, falling 11 (!) ranks and 21pp. It is 2 ranks higher in the unweighted list. It has the 4th highest standard deviation on this list.
Fool’s Gold is still riding on its reputation as a rush card of sorts, but as decks have trended toward engine play and have gotten generally faster and stronger, the classic Fool’s Gold rush is simply not a great strategy. It still has plenty of appeal as cheap but explosive payload, but it struggles to stand out as plenty of different cards provide Coin payload and economy.

#21 ▼2 Candlestick Maker (Guilds) Weighted Average: 50.6% ▼8pp / Unweighted Average: 53.4% / Median: 50.0% ▼13.2pp / Standard Deviation: 16.0%

Candlestick Maker has been tumbling down for years, but it fell just two ranks this year, starting to stabilize. Its standard deviation isn’t super high, and the unweighted ranking is the same as the weighted rank. While being a stop card ultimately limits its utility, it is one of the better cheap nonterminal sources of +Buy, and its hard to find a deck that wouldn’t mind one or two in moderation.

#20 ▲1 Crossroads (Hinterlands) Weighted Average: 53.0% ▼3.1pp / Unweighted Average: 54.7% / Median: 54.6% ▼4.8pp / Standard Deviation: 20.1%

After plummeting 5 ranks last year, Crossroads actually gained a rank this year. It is one rank higher in the unweighted ranking. The standard deviation is somewhat high, indicating some disagreement. The dual utility as a unique draw card and a one-off double Village makes it a unique card with two distinct niches, and while it’s not the best card in either role, it can still serve a purpose.
Notably, this is the first time it has been the highest ranked card from Hinterlands, surpassing Fool’s Gold.

#19 ▲2 Delve (Empires) Weighted Average: 53.1% ▼2pp / Unweighted Average: 53.4% / Median: 53.9% ▲1.3pp / Standard Deviation: 20.4%

Delve edges out Crossroads by less than a tenth of a percentage point. It gained two positions in the ranked list. Some guy voted it first, I guess, and the deviation indicates plenty of disagreement. While sometimes it doesn’t change the game very much, it can be a novel source of extra gains or a way to supercharge Big Money style decks, which gives it more utility than one might expect at first glance.

#18 ▼1 Squire (Dark Ages) Weighted Average: 58.9% ▼2.7pp / Unweighted Average: 61.4% / Median: 59.1% ▼6.7pp / Standard Deviation: 18.2%

Another card that has been tumbling down the rankings for years, Squire is also starting to stabilize, falling slightly but not nearly as much as last year. A classic $2 utility card, the choice of actions, buys, or silver gaining offers a modest boost for any deck type, as long as the drawbacks of the card are kept in mind. It is three ranks higher in the unweighted list, indicating less experienced players have a stronger preference for Squire. This makes sense, as it seems to be at its best in a “good stuff” deck, one popular with new players. Some other person voted it first.

#17 ▼1 Lighthouse (Seaside) Weighted Average: 59.1% ▼4.1pp / Unweighted Average: 59.2% / Median: 61.4% ▼1.8pp / Standard Deviation: 19.7%

Continuing the trend of cards tumbling in the rankings for years, Lighthouse lost another rank this year. Some amount of uncertainty there, with a much higher median than others around it in the list, but Lighthouse remains a valuable way to consistently block attacks in certain decks, and the economy is a nice touch. On the other hand, it’s still a Copper and a stop card, so you generally need to compensate with extra draw.

#16 ▲2 Borrow (Adventures) Weighted Average: 59.3% ▼0.5p / Unweighted Average: 54.3% / Median: 56.8% ▲4.2pp / Standard Deviation: 26.4%

Borrow continues climbing upward in the rankings, as its strengths in smoothing out early Buys and helping hit tricky price points are revealed to be more important than once thought. It gained two ranks over last year. It has the highest standard deviation of all of the cards on this list, though, so significant disagreement remains. Borrow is three ranks lower on the unweighted rankings.

#15 ▲8 Travelling Fair (Adventures) Weighted Average: 60.4% ▲10.6pp / Unweighted Average: 59.7% / Median: 59.1% ▲9.1pp / Standard Deviation: 18.3%

Travelling Fair is one of the biggest winners on this list, rising 8 ranks and over 10pp. The standard deviation decreased as well, indicating a growing consensus of the strength of Travelling Fair as a topdecker and +Buy source. The highly tactical play Travelling Fair enables along with the strong synergies with certain cards such as Fool’s Gold and Counting House have raised its stature.

#14 ▼4 Courtyard (Intrigue) Weighted Average: 69.9% ▼0.2pp / Unweighted Average: 68.8% / Median: 65.9% ▼7.8pp / Standard Deviation: 18.4%

Courtyard plummeted four ranks this year. Its strength as a draw card for money strategies remains, but the greater prevalence of engine decks hurts it to some extent, as in an engine it takes special circumstances for it to draw significantly better than Moat (although the extra search space is more help than you’d expect). It was voted first once, and is one rank higher in the unweighted ranking.

#13 ▲1 Ratcatcher (Adventures) Weighted Average: 70.6% ▲6.9pp / Unweighted Average: 69.4% / Median: 70.5% ▲4.7pp / Standard Deviation: 15.4%

Ratcatcher rebounded significantly from its slump last year, gaining a rank and nearly 7pp. It is one rank higher in the unweighted ranking, and has a fairly low deviation for this point of the list. Seems like everyone loves this simple, cheap nonterminal trasher. While a little slow, it’s nice that it stays out of the way once you’re done with it, making it an extremely low opportunity cost card.

#12 =0 Save (Adventures) Weighted Average: 72.5% ▲3.3pp / Unweighted Average: 67.7% / Median: 79.6% ▲5.9pp / Standard Deviation: 24.7%

Save stayed the same rank, but gained 3 percentage points on last year. The standard deviation is the highest of the entire top 15, indicating strong disagreement, and it is two ranks lower on the unweighted list. It takes awhile for players to catch on to the many tricks Save can pull off, and it is an extremely useful utility card valued by higher level players.

#11 Lurker (Intrigue) Weighted Average: 73.7% / Unweighted Average: 70.4% / Median: 77.3% / Standard Deviation: 20.2%

Lurker is the second highest new card on the list, and the only card from the Second Edition on the list. It received 1 first place vote. A game warping nonterminal gainer and trasher, it presents powerful opportunities for near-unrestricted gaining and pile control, making it a powerhouse in certain engines. There’s a fair amount of disagreement on its strength, and I suspect that is due to how it’s power level wildly varies depending on the board - but when it is good it is absolutely essential.

#10  ▼4 Hamlet (Cornucopia) Weighted Average: 74.6% ▲0.6pp / Unweighted Average: 72.5% / Median: 77.3% ▲1pp / Standard Deviation: 15.5%

Hamlet is the biggest loser in the top 10, shooting down four ranks despite slightly gaining in weighted average. It is no longer the highest or even the second-highest rated village on the list. The versatility of the discard-for-Village and discard-for-Buy effects still give it strong value, but there is a lot more competing with it in this list, and more niche and powerful cards have overshadowed it.

#9 ▼2 Coin of the Realm (Adventures) Weighted Average: 75.9% ▲3.1pp / Unweighted Average: 75.3% / Median: 77.3% ▲3.6pp / Standard Deviation: 12.2%

After a large surge last year, Coin has dipped slightly, which I think mostly due to the higher regard other cards are held in rather than changing attitudes about Coin. Despite the rank drop, it gained 3 percentage points and enjoys the fourth lowest deviation on this list, indicating relative consensus on this enabler.

#8 ▲4 Alms (Adventures) Weighted Average: 76.3% ▲9.6p / Unweighted Average: 74.2% / Median: 79.6% ▲14p / Standard Deviation: 15.6%

Alms continues its strong ascent from last year, rising 4 ranks and another 10pp. At first it may have seemed like a relatively low impact card. But the increased consistency across the first turns, fun tricks you can do with cards like Villa, and preserving the ability to gain cards during trashing turns are important strengths of Alms that have raised its stature.

#7 ▼2 Stonemason (Guilds) Weighted Average: 76.9% ▼2.7pp / Unweighted Average: 75.4% / Median: 81.8% ▼2.4pp / Standard Deviation: 19.5%

Stonemason took a bit of a fall this year, dropping two ranks but staying within the top 10. Much like Coin, it seems other cards have rocketed above it in stature rather than it getting much weaker in the current Dominion environment. For a top 10 card its standard deviation is unusually high, but not more than some of the lower cards on the list.

#6 ▲2 Raze (Adventures) Weighted Average: 79.4% ▲8pp / Unweighted Average: 76.7% / Median: 81.8% ▲5.5pp / Standard Deviation: 16.6%

Raze continues to… rise… in the rankings, up another 2 ranks from 2016 and a whole 10 from its debut in 2015. There’s quite a lot of utility of a cheap, nonterminal trasher that also cycles and gets rid of itself. However, it’s only the third best trasher on this list now...

#5 ▲8 Encampment (Empires) Weighted Average: 80.6% ▲14.3pp / Unweighted Average: 78.9% / Median: 84.1% ▲21.1pp / Standard Deviation: 16.6%

Encampment rocketed from outside the top 10 all the way into the top 5, with one of the biggest gains on this list, over 14 percentage points. Draw and Actions on the same cheap card, even with the hoop to jump through of pairing it with Gold or Plunder, is just a powerful, dominating effect, and the uneven split often decides games. It also has enough utility that you don’t mind using it as a one-shot early in the game. It was voted first once.

#4 Monastery (Nocturne) Weighted Average: 81.2% / Unweighted Average: 79.4% / Median: 86.4% / Standard Deviation: 16.7%

Despite only having been around for a couple of months, there’s been a near consensus on the power and strength of Monastery, clearly the strongest $2 cost in Nocturne. The ability to trash potentially several cards with Monastery, including Copper you may have used to buy things, presents the rare opportunity to trash without immediately losing momentum. This unique quality powers it to very near the top of the rankings. Despite the power, there was a consensus that Monastery is not the best $2 in Dominion, receiving no #1 votes.

#3 ▼1 Page (Adventures) Weighted Average: 94.2% ▲2pp / Unweighted Average: 92.5% / Median: 95.5% ▲0.8pp / Standard Deviation: 12.5%

There’s quite a gap in average between the top 3 and the rest of the list, with Page averaging 13 points above Monastery, but there’s plenty of debate as to the order of these top 3 cards. This year, Page has fallen one rank to #3, below Peasant. While Page is still obviously an immensely powerful Village (Champion) and strong set of Travellers, the strength of the Warrior attack is more limited than once thought due to the opponent having access to Champion. More boards than you would expect find themselves hitting a bit of a wall despite the presence of Champion, as you still need some draw or +Buy for an engine to take flight. Despite this, Page is still quite clearly one of the most powerful cards for its cost, and actually gained 2pp in average. It received 3 first place votes.

#2 ▲1 Peasant (Adventures) Weighted Average: 96.3% ▲5.1pp / Unweighted Average: 92.7% / Median: 97.7% ▲3pp / Standard Deviation: 12.6%

Peasant moved up one rank, but nearly 5 percentage points, as people have warmed up to this powerful, game warping card. Featuring two excellent Travellers in Teacher and Disciple, along with respectable payload in Soldier, Peasant gives you almost everything you need to attempt the engine, as long as you carefully pick your Teacher targets. This versatility and the ability to “patch” the board you’re playing with whatever resource you may be missing is what gives Peasant the strength to surpass Page in the rankings. It received 8 first place votes, which, while impressive, is still just over a quarter of the first place votes that the #1 ranked card received.

#1 =0 Chapel (Base) Weighted Average: 97.8% ▲0.1pp / Unweighted Average: 97.2% / Median: 100% =0pp / Standard Deviation: 6.0%

Chapel continues to hold its vice grip on the top of this list, somehow even slightly increasing its average, and carrying by far the lowest standard deviation of the list. Despite stiff competition from a variety of powerful trashers, Chapel’s speed in getting decks razor-thin is almost unmatched in Dominion. It received over half of the first place votes (28).

Help! / Re: Double Tac, Villa, Bridge, Storyteller, HoP
« on: January 09, 2018, 09:07:17 am »
My complete gut here, so itís very bad.

Temple / Silver opening. Go HARD on Villa and Bridge, then add Storyteller to get something resembling draw going. 1 or 2 HoP to use as an honest gainer, not a megaturn thing, and try to build to the big Bridge turn.

I donít think you have TIME for a proper double Tac - I think you basically get a Tac the second to last turn of the game, and then you do as much as you can. Thereís the Villa trick, but wow those cards will be going fast, so Iím uncertain.

In reality what ends up happening is itís a big pileout board, but you build it that way anyway. Idk. I would lose here.

Faithful Hound's placement is fairly ridiculous. In games where it is good, it is game-definingly good in a way the none of the other cards on this list can ever be. The thing I believe people don't fully understand is that the +2 cards is very much secondary, and in most Faithful Hound games you will rarely end up playing them but rather, say, discard 8 Hounds to Artificer each turn. Compare to Moat, where the card draw is usually the main function. It should be obvious that Hound is much stronger than that.

Another placement that seems weird is Guardian. That card is basically a delayed Copper unless there are nasty attacks, so how is it so good? Clearly it's a better defense than, say, Moat, but that comes at a cost of junking yourself, so you're kind of attacking yourself in order to not be attacked. Moat can at least work in some decks, Guardian is only ever junk that protects you.

Couldnít the same be said about Lighthouse? Youíre basically trading the first turn Copper in exchange for the ability to dead draw it and to buy it into your hand when you miss. The latter is a huge deal. Itís still worse than Lighthouse, but itís not an unreasonable card on boards with devastating attacks. Itís only junk every other turn at least...

You should reserve one or more posts after the first post in card list threads so that when you post the remaining cards, they appear sequentially. Then you can update the thread title (by editing the first post) to say something like "The Dominion Card Lists 2017 Edition: $0-$2 cards, all".

Chris is me is doing the other half. I assumed they'd make a new topic.

I will be. The style is a bit different, and we would basically have to post simultaneously for the reserved post thing to work with multiple users. Also I always hate when the discussion is pages away from the content, though it does make sense in the old Qvist context.

My post should go up around this time tomorrow or a little before. Unless I get unbearably bored at work in the afternoon, at which point Iíll push the limits of cell phone copy and paste.

Let's Discuss ... / Re: Let's Discuss Prosperity Cards: Loan
« on: January 08, 2018, 07:36:43 am »
It really shines in the first few shuffles if you can either delay or skip Silver, which is certainly enough of the time to be worth noticing. I think Iím a bit biased against it in games where you have to open Loan / Silver, sort of the same way Iím biased against Sentry: you really remember the bad luck games where you hit your Treasure repeatedly. That said, especially if itís one of the primary trashers itís worth jumping through a few hoops to avoid Treasure early on, and since itís a non action trasher it makes terminal silvers more appealing.

I like it best paired with $4 cost trash for benefit, like Salvager or Remodel, cards that would prefer to not trash Copper. But it can supplement most trashers on the right board for it. You just have to be fairly sure you donít need Treasure cards for the first few shuffles.

Two Loans is okay, sort of similar to two Lookouts, but I donít often do this because of how quickly it drains your economy. It does let you get in more trashing before you are forced to buy Silver if youíre sure you need it in just a couple of turns. Hopefully one gets the other but not too soon.

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