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Messages - Seprix

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1
Dominion General Discussion / Re: SepRanks for Top Player Rating
« on: August 12, 2018, 07:08:14 pm »
Results are here! Next polling will occur in a couple of months, and I'll make it easier to do than last time.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LY16PTL9FkG1z1pnCmdMKQL3qYJZPCUCfl4ZhJlRRww/edit?usp=sharing

1. Mic Qsenoch
2. Stef
3. Dan Brooks
4. RTT
5. Markus
6. Mercury444F
7. tracer
8. Sangatsu
9. Sicomatic
10. Ceviri
11. Dingan
12. Gloures
13. Limetime
14. aku_chi
15. Bryan
16. E Honda
17. SamE
18. jsh357
19. Hakase
20. jonts

2
I am pretty sure, there will also be a line: "When you buy or gain this, +1 Action token“. This would allow some 'crazy villa magic' for all Workshop variants.

That line gives you a total of two tokens when you buy it (and then gain it as a result).

No it wouldn't, it says "or". This isn't code/logic talk where "or" means one or more. Certainly buy or gain is redundant, but it wouldn't grant two tokens as far as I could tell.

3
Collect all the Dominion Expansions and you get to dissolve half of the Dominion Cards in existence


4
Dominion General Discussion / Re: SepRanks for Top Player Rating
« on: August 05, 2018, 04:49:18 pm »
Would we get more information about the players such as achievements and bio?

Uh if someone wanted it I probably could

5


The cover art in all of it's glory.

6
Dominion General Discussion / Re: SepRanks for Top Player Rating
« on: August 02, 2018, 09:57:10 am »
If you want more diverse and accurate metrics for this you should cross-post it in other places like Reddit, Discord, possibly even BGG? There's going to be a LOT of onus put on the reader's ability to discern the value of what essentially amounts to a popularity contest, but at least that way you could avoid an echo chamber effect.

I could do this. Probably I will.

7
Dominion General Discussion / Re: SepRanks for Top Player Rating
« on: August 02, 2018, 06:37:05 am »
So, I'm guessing the rankings won't weighted...

...At least the first time around. Future lists could be weighted based on who was on the previous list.

I actually currently don't know how future polls are going to be conducted yet.

8
Dominion General Discussion / SepRanks for Top Player Rating
« on: August 01, 2018, 10:07:57 pm »
Introduction

Why should anybody create these lists? Well, the obvious answer is that it's a fun activity, akin to ranking College teams. However, there are also two practical reasons to conduct these lists.

Firstly, the Leaderboard is not entirely accurate. Great players might not play all that often, and their positions might very well be completely wrong. The Leaderboard is biased towards people who play ranked, not all Dominion. For example, Dominion League is almost never played ranked, but nobody will see higher quality Dominion being played than in the A and B tiers. In addition, players game the system all of the time to artificially raise their numbers, further watering down the results. I am not saying the Leaderboard is a useless metric, but some discernment must be used when consulting it.

Secondly, increasing our understanding of who the best players are will help new players and old alike. For the new players, it will give them role models to emulate. For the old players, perhaps they will see some players they never considered before, from simply underrated players to the vibrant and active Japanese community we barely communicate with. This will evolve the metagame in the long run, further increasing our understanding for the game.

Yes, the lists will not be accurate at first. That is okay. Course correction will happen.

Polling

Polling will commence about every 6 months, and be open for two weeks. Users will visit the link below, enter their username, and present their list of the top 20 Dominion Players.

This link will lead to the current poll. Before taking the poll, there are some important things to note.

1. I would advise all users consult both the ShuffleIT Leaderboard and the Dominion League standings before finishing their rankings. It's not required, but it may help in accuracy.
2. Keep in mind that fame does not always mean the player is better.
3. As a corollary to the last note, remember that there are other players who do not visit the forums. There are for example, plenty of strong Japanese players out there, among other players. This area is where the Leaderboard is most helpful.

Polling Results

These results are sorted by the most recent.

August 2018

Disclaimers

If you aggressively do not care about the polls, then you do not have to participate. Your displeasure does not mean this poll shouldn't exist.
Who voted for whom will not be made public, and this will solve any potential issues. Please be careful when discussing votes. My asking for usernames on the poll is only to ensure that voting is unique and fair.

9
Scheduling / Re: Season 29 - B1
« on: July 28, 2018, 05:32:46 pm »
 8)

10
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Question- What is an Engine
« on: July 26, 2018, 01:31:57 pm »
A deck that thins down in order to guarantee a Ghost Ship play and a single province every turn is definitely an engine (as opposed to a Ghost Ship Money deck that just throws a bunch of ships and Gold in there to try and have attacks happen often enough)

I cannot disagree more. Take a deck with Windfall, Ghost Ship and Donate. I'm not calling that an engine. Sorry. It's just incredibly consistent money, which will have to be the case when under constant siege from Ghost Ship. Extend this example to Donate, tons of engine enablers but no way to gain more than one green card a turn. I'm still not calling that an engine, because it cannot be.

11
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Question- What is an Engine
« on: July 26, 2018, 01:26:44 pm »
Your definition is inadequate to capture what we commonly refer to as engines then. You can definitely have an engine that plays Ghost Ship every turn and gains only one green card.

Also, the definition "gets more than one set of points" is super arbitrary. A deck that plays Swindler and buys a Dominate each turn is not an engine, but the same deck playing a Monument instead and buying a Colony each turn is?

Actually you cannot according to the definition, it would more or less play like consistent money. Attacks are a way to decrease consistency, and necessitate building further, but if there really is nothing else but playing Ghost Ship, there is no engine there.

No, playing Swindler and buying Dominate is not an engine by itself. Yes, Monument and buying Colony is absolutely an engine as long as you are increasing consistency, which means either sifting, drawing cards or trashing them. Engines aren't always good.

Quote
4. Council Room/Margrave deck with nothing else. Yes, this is an engine. It increases consistency and it can score more than one set of points a turn. However, it is a very weak engine.

I fail to see how this could be considered anything other than Terminal Draw Big Money. Tacking a +Buy on Smithy Big Money does not an engine make.

Let go of your romanticized ideas of engines. Something has to give in the end, to define something so contradictory in nature. It could very well be that my idea is insane, but something at the end has to give. Nobody is going to be 100% happy with an idea at first. I never said it was a good engine, it is in fact a terrible engine. But it is nontheless an engine according to my interpretations.

12
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Question- What is an Engine
« on: July 26, 2018, 12:06:15 am »
Seprix, does reducing opponents' score count as scoring a set of points? Cursers, Swindler, Knights, etc.

Hmmm, that is a great point. I am going to say yes, if it can lower points it is an alternate way of scoring, with the idea in mind that perhaps Curses can be trashed. It depends, but something I did not think about.

Another idea WanderingWinder presented: He postulates that Native Village/Bridge does not fit the qualifications, I counter that Native Village is setting aside cards and you are building to one giant turn, so there is a consistency factor there, and there is a scoring method that is higher than a single set of points.

13
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Question- What is an Engine
« on: July 26, 2018, 12:00:17 am »
An engine is a deck where you are able to both (a) potentially gain more than one set of points a turn and (b) seeks to increase consistency (or at least not decrease consistency) in the deck before greening. In this way, an engine seeks to expand further than a set boundary of one Province/Colony/Dominate a turn.
What if I have a deck with only one gain per turn, but I try to draw deck every turn just so I can play Ghost Ship every turn?  Does that fulfill (a) or not?

I don't understand why Workshop/Gardens doesn't fulfill (b).  You say that gaining gardens decreases consistency, but by the time you're gaining gardens, that would be after greening, no?

That is "money". Playing an attack isn't gaining points. Such scenarios also lend themselves to longer games anyways, meaning weaker engines are things you usually go for then, if possible. Engines favor the longer game, and attacks lend themselves to longer games. But what you describe by itself is not an engine, because there are no additional green gains.

Workshop/Gardens doesn't fulfill (b) because there's no consistency at all. You aren't trying to draw deck, you're not thinning down, you're not sifting.

Please, keep trying to tear my idea down. It needs to be tested.

14
Tournaments and Events / Re: Cage Match Tournament #2: Empires
« on: July 25, 2018, 08:51:10 pm »
GreyEK 3 - 1 markus (with 2 draws)

Donate was bought by each player in every game.

Wall mattered in games 2 and 3

You did it! You upended my 1-2 seed prediction!

15
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Question- What is an Engine
« on: July 25, 2018, 08:02:37 pm »
After much deliberation, I have come to a point where I feel like I can adequately describe what an engine is in layman's terms.

An engine is a deck where you are able to both (a) potentially gain more than one set of points a turn and (b) seeks to increase consistency (or at least not decrease consistency) in the deck before greening. In this way, an engine seeks to expand further than a set boundary of one Province/Colony/Dominate a turn.

Let me break down what that means a bit. Say you buy an Estate. That is a set of points, or in this case a point. Say you buy a Province, that is a set of points. Any time you score with a purchase or gain, that is a single set of points, no matter how big or small. Play a Monument? That is a set of points. Play a Goons and buy something? That is a set of points. Buy a copper and get Fountain points? You get the picture.

Secondly, consistency increase in deck building, at least to the point of where consistency does not decrease. The idea is, you want to play your good cards more often. This means trashing, this means draw, this means sifting.

Since a "money" deck seeks to only buy a single set of points a turn, thusly it only has an X hurdle to clear. Engines have a higher hurdle to clear and thusly want at least the potential for an increase of consistency, and an output greater than a single set of points a turn.

Some edgecases:

1. Workshop/Gardens. This deck does gain more than one set of points a turn, however it does not increase consistency and thusly is not an engine.

2. Donate with Lucky Coin, a lot of action cards, but no other gains. This deck will be highly consistent, however it will have no cap larger than a single set of points, and thusly there is no engine on the board.

3. An engine that is possible given the rules, but can only gain estates from Workshop/Ironworks. This is indeed an engine because it will increase consistency and score more than one set of points, however it is a very weak engine, and may lose to the more focused money deck.

4. Council Room/Margrave deck with nothing else. Yes, this is an engine. It increases consistency and it can score more than one set of points a turn. However, it is a very weak engine.

5. A deck with Lurker, Graverobber, Chapel, and no money at all but no Action increasers: The idea here is you Graverob something every turn, score a single Province, and reget your trashed stuff every turn with Lurkers, while getting incredibly consistent with the Chapel. Yes, this is merely "money", it is not an engine since there does not exist a way to score more than one set of points a turn.

I might be missing something here, but that is my current theory on engines. As you can see, the terms "money" don't always naturally fit (due to case 5 as an example), and thusly I am open to ditching the term entirely and going with a new one, to entirely replace the concept of money, except in terms of referring to the really bad single draw card Big Money of ages past.

16
Tournaments and Events / Re: Cage Match Tournament #2: Empires
« on: July 19, 2018, 05:45:54 pm »

17
Tournaments and Events / Re: Cage Match Tournament #2: Empires
« on: July 19, 2018, 02:43:23 am »
Alright, Quickrik showed up, that match has to finish up quickly then.

18
Tournaments and Events / Re: Cage Match Tournament #2: Empires
« on: July 18, 2018, 05:24:25 pm »
Quickrick hasn't shown up, he's eliminated. Mikechike wins.

19
Tournaments and Events / Re: Cage Match Tournament #2: Empires
« on: July 16, 2018, 06:43:49 am »
After today and if they don't show, free win for you.  ;D

20
lol speaking of this thread, I'm actually going to take a break from playing Dominion, for a lot of the reasons Awaclus has. The game is seriously exhausting to play competitively.

21
Tournaments and Events / Re: Cage Match Tournament #2: Empires
« on: July 10, 2018, 09:14:52 pm »
Lost to Lemonspawn 2.5-3.5, Enchantress was predictably quite dominating, Bandit Fort was annoying on some boards but Enchantress was oppressive.

22
Tournaments and Events / Re: Cage Match Tournament #2: Empires
« on: July 08, 2018, 05:55:05 pm »
Okay! Seeding will be done sometime tonight, when the thing updates. Polls will close for card voting in 6 hours, and I will publish the results and matchups soon after!

23
Tournaments and Events / Re: Cage Match Tournament #2: Empires
« on: July 07, 2018, 07:31:38 pm »
Just three more spots!

24
I don't think this is really all that good.  You're spending to turn a from a Necropolis to a Village.  If you're in a situation where Cursed is your only Village and there aren't a lot of disappearing Actions, then it's just a bad situation.  In most kingdoms, there's probably going to be something better to drop Pathfinding on.  And if you're already in a situation where Cursed is regularly drawing, then Pathfinding literally does nothing.

Pathfinding on Cursed Village increases consistency in your deck. That's why Villa is kinda bad after you buy it on the next turn, because you don't draw at all with it. Turning your Cursed Villages into normal villages makes it more likely you don't dud. The pros don't green early, so you won't mind spending a rogue early $8 from your hand of Silvers and Coppers. The opportunity cost isn't that bad.

25
I hope you come back.

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