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Dominion General Discussion / Re: Alchemy card revelation...
« on: June 18, 2018, 10:17:35 pm »
Or is this just a way to punish a player who needs to go to the bathroom while someone's dealing with King's Court - Possession?


Holy shit, they should ban Possession online, that is not fun to play against at all!

Let's Discuss ... / Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Transmogrify
« on: June 17, 2018, 04:12:51 pm »
So if you buy it you're... in-salting the player?  8)

Not even a chuckle.

Scheduling / Re: Season 28 - E11
« on: June 14, 2018, 01:20:27 am »
anyone around now?

Everybody is also on Discord, and you are more likely to reach them by looking there

Dominion Articles / Re: Donate Part 1: The Beginning
« on: June 11, 2018, 06:20:08 pm »
Okay, maybe I should just write everything about Donate, length be damned. Let's see how that goes, oh and also scrap most of what I wrote before because it's redundant and wastes time. We'll give this another shot, be back soon with a better draft.

You went into writing a Donate article just like you advised people NOT to go into an actual Donate game. Gotta plan everything out fully before you make your first move!

Yes yes muh upvotes

Working very methodically on the new version

Scheduling / Re: Season 28 - B2
« on: June 03, 2018, 08:35:20 pm »

Scheduling / Re: Season 28 - F6
« on: June 03, 2018, 08:34:26 pm »
Have fun, everyone!

Scheduling / Re: Season 28 - E11
« on: June 03, 2018, 08:34:00 pm »
Have fun, everyone!

Scheduling / Re: Season 28 - E10
« on: June 03, 2018, 08:33:40 pm »
Have fun, everyone!

Scheduling / Re: Season 28 - D6
« on: June 03, 2018, 08:33:07 pm »
Have fun, everyone!

Scheduling / Re: Season 28 - C1
« on: June 03, 2018, 08:31:50 pm »
Have fun, everyone!

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Kudasai's Random Dominion Cards
« on: June 02, 2018, 05:15:51 pm »
A lot of these cards are highly creative and I for sure enjoy the elegant boldness of them.

Army seems insanely strong, probably too strong. It could cost more.

Heir is cute, but does nothing unless you’re already drawing deck and then it’s only about the same as Wine Merchant that can be triggered only once. Pretty meh on it, it could cost cheaper. Very weak.

Royal Decree is very strong, and I like the attack aspect of it for sure.

Moon Shrine seems horrifically weak. It’s a delayed Silver, dead on play since you can’t use the Coffers until next turn and even potentially helping the opponent score VP. It’s slow and weak. I would probably never buy this in the current form.

Slumlord is awesome.

Stadium is really wonky, and it’s essentially a gamble. Also couldn’t you technically reveal no tokens, and then reveal a copper, since double 0 is 0? Might want a clause for that, such as a “if you added any tokens, at the start of the next turn…” Anyways it’s cute but not sure if it’s worth keeping around, it seems meh.

Lost Temple is a busted thinner, pretty much auto-open that since it’s a Chapel. And then it’s useful afterwards too! You only really want one ever though, no reason to get more than one.

Industrious Village seems pretty strong, like stronger than $4 strong. It really could cost $5.

Old Witch is interesting!

What the heck, Mimic is so damn weird that I would want to try it, although it’s presence basically makes any three piling infinitely harder, so it could be a serious board decider, depending on how good the Mimics are.

I had some version of Crane without the bottom part, and you made a far more elegant version.

Astrolab is still too strong I think.

Yurt Village is so weird, but an interesting weird.

Holy shit Marshal is a crazy mechanic idea. I love it. Osho, no idea what to think of it. The main worry with this mechanic though, is how slow it could be.

Isle is really cool, especially the part where you can just straight up decide which starting card to lose.

Airship is a suicide card in any remotely engine board, and it is thusly really really bad.

Treaty has some of the clunkiest wording. You need to find a way to shorten this, which might include scrapping the gain a $5 thing. Also this is so Kingmaking in 3P or above, so watch out with that. Might need a total redesign or scrapping.

Blockade is weird. You’ll just cover the Province pile and whatever two cards you deem will be gained, which you will almost certainly be right. And oh shoot, maybe you miss one and the opponent gets there first. At the end of all of this laborious logging, you end up with at most… 3 VP. Yeah, this is a terrible Landmark. Scrap. It’s a lot of work and it doesn’t seem fun to play with.

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Trashing the Engineer
« on: May 23, 2018, 12:05:13 am »
Engineer is so damn good. It's flexible, you can get two $4s out of one use for only a bit of delay and you can hold onto it at least once, just to get even more value out of it. It's great at reaching out and snatching cards all at once, like those last two Wandering Minstels, or you can sack it when you don't need a Workshop anymore. And you can pay $2 now, $2 next turn for it as well. It's I think better than Ironworks. I like to trash it when I don't want it or when I have like $3 and don't want another Silver, so I just go ahead and buy another Engineer.

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Seprix's Card Creation Emporium
« on: May 20, 2018, 04:25:47 pm »
Gain Meister Action-Reaction $5

+1 Action
+1 Card
+1 Buy
When you would gain a card, you may play this to instead give that card to the player to the left.

It can send over Curses, Coppers, and it can be a Village too. It's a cute versatile card.

Not useful, but certainly neat.

When you play an Enchantress, it covers the first Action card played during a turn... Which includes a Werewolf in the Night Phase.

For reference, here are some links to card rankings generated by statistical analysis:

1. How often top players gain the card
2. Win rates conditional on gaining the card
3. How much the presence of a card affects gain percentages of all cards
4. How much player skill correlates with gaining the card
5. How hard it is to predict the winner in the presence of a card

Numbers 1 and 2 are the same as ideas that Awaclus proposed in the OP, and they indeed have the problems that Awaclus mentioned.  Awaclus' third proposal is to play games where one player is banned from gaining the card, but as he said you can't really perform statistical analysis because you'd have to play hundreds or thousands of games.  Basically, Awaclus knows what he is talking about.

Number 3 is the analysis that I proposed, and I personally think it works well, although it overrates things like junkers and copper gainers.

Numbers 4 and 5 aren't attempts to measure card strength, but are nonetheless interesting.  Number 4 mostly shows how overrated or underrated cards are by weaker players (at least they were in 2014).  Number 5 shows how effectively a given card separates strong and weak players.

Thanks for posting all of this, but it's all also pretty much moot information nowadays. New expansions, new ideas, heck, the entire concept of engine building has improved even further. I would love to have this information compiled today, and see what the numbers say.

It really comes down to usage frequency.

By 'frequency', do you mean 'at least once', or actual frequency? I might only use (i.e. play) Page once in a game, but it's still a very strong card. I might only use Chapel 2 or 3 times in a game, but it's very strong.

And by 'usage' do you mean 'play', or 'gain', or what? I may gain IGGs, without ever really needing to "use" them, or even wanting them in my deck altogether. And there's gaining by choice (Witch) vs. gaining not by choice (Curse) -- do you mean the former?

There are still flaws with this though. I use Silver a lot -- but often just as a stepping stone to get to other things. Oftentimes I wouldn't use it if I didn't have to. I use Potion a lot in Scrying Pool games. I use Gladiator to get to Fortune - even if I don't necessarily want the Gladiator. For that matter, are split piles by definition top half stronger than bottom half, cus (barring edge cases) it's guaranteed that there are more games in which a card from the top half is gained but not the bottom half than there are vice versa?

How would you do non supply cards? Tournament (and Province?) is strong because of Followers and Trusty Steed, but how would you handle the Prizes?

How would you do Knights/Ruins/Castles?

How does this definition handle cards from the Black Market deck? Rats is (arguably) stronger if it came from the BM deck; Magpie is weaker. Why?

If you do mean something like 'percentage of games this card is in in which you gain the card by choice at least once in the game' then, off the top of my head, Butcher comes to mind (Dungeon in your case). There are probably fewer games that I ignore Butcher than there are games where I ignore Cultist and Monty. But I'd still say Cultist and Monty are "stronger" -- air quotes, because as this thread suggests, I don't really know what makes a card strong.

You're worrying too much about the specifics.

When I say usage frequency, I just mean it comes down to how often you pick it up.

Dominion is a squinty game, it's okay to squint. With something like Page, that you pick it up every game nearly speaks to the power of Champion and the other stuff. You're not picking up Page for Page, but that doesn't make Page weak by any means.

You are right that Silver is picked up a lot, merely as a stepping stone, but it is still picked up a decent amount of times, and is thus a decent opener. But there are plenty of games where you don't in fact pick up a Silver. The point is, you do have to get a Silver sometimes to get to other cards, and if you do have to use a Silver, hey Silver is decent sometimes. It's better than people say it is, because it does accelerate your deck. If it doesn't, that means there's a better route, whether that be a Steward, or an Ironmonger, etc. You say you'd never pick up Silver if you didn't have to, and I agree. I also wouldn't use any other trasher besides Donate if I didn't have to. We're arguing all of the boards, not the best case scenarios.

Black Market, who cares. Completely different rule. You're picking up Black Market every time because it can supply something to you that is ordinarily not in the Kingdom, whatever that might be. You don't worry about non-supply cards, those come packaged with whatever card you can in fact purchase. Knights? Yeah, I pick those up a lot. Don't worry about specific Knights, that there are Knights and you often pick them up is good enough!

Dominion Articles / Re: Donate Part 1: The Beginning
« on: May 02, 2018, 07:14:53 am »
Okay, maybe I should just write everything about Donate, length be damned. Let's see how that goes, oh and also scrap most of what I wrote before because it's redundant and wastes time. We'll give this another shot, be back soon with a better draft.

This doesn't take into account a scenario in which nobody gains the card, but it makes an impact by merely being present in the kingdom (e.g. Salt the Earth).

Yeah this basically doesn't come up. Salt is very weak.

But solutions.

It really comes down to usage frequency. Any time Governor is on the board, you basically have to incorporate it. Same with Goons, or Page, or Peasant, etc. And thus those are top tier cards. The less this is true, the less strong the card. There can be cards with a seemingly weak effect (Dungeon for example) that are absolutely critical to win with. Dungeon increases cycling and start of turn consistency, and despite the lack of flashiness that a card like Goons has, Dungeon has somehow managed to be a very strong card in its own right, simply due to the frequency with which I open it with.

Dominion Articles / Donate Part 1: The Beginning
« on: May 02, 2018, 12:52:09 am »
Donate is a complex card. There is so much to cover, and thus to make it easier to digest, there is going to be a multi-part series about Donate. I won't be writing every part, and I welcome others to join the Dominion Blog Discord to help with our writing process!

Also, this is a draft. Please feel free to critique or suggest additions.


Donate is the most powerful card in Dominion, and ignoring it is a surefire way to lose games. Precise plays are rewarded and even tiny mistakes are magnified. In addition, such a game warping card is hard to talk about, because there are so many different questions to ask every time it is on the board. What to put into the deck before triggering Donate? When to trigger Donate? Do you buy Donate more than once? Whatís the fastest build path?

This article wonít be able to give you absolute solutions. After all, as the famous saying goes, ďIt depends on the board.Ē However, there are trends and general information available to help you make the right decisions. These trends may not always help you play the most efficiently on the battlefield, but it is a starting point!

General Concepts

Everything that is true in competitive Dominion play becomes even more crucial on Donate boards. Having an incomplete understanding of the gameís meta is easier to get away with on normal boards, but with Donate this becomes much harder to do!

As an addendum, first player advantage is absolutely a real thing normally, but it is even stronger to go first on Donate boards! I donít want you to think the game is already over if you are the second player. The second player is happy to tie if it comes down to it, but there are usually winning chances! Play the outs given and donít give up.

It is hard to have any Donate discussion without starting on deck control, a concept that allows you to play your good cards and to gain things more often. Deck control comes in many forms (such as topdecking), but the most prominent example is trashing. The power of trashing is one of the first things new players learn when entering the competitive scene, but the power of Donateís trashing is shocking, almost liberating even. Any deck imaginable can be built from the ground up, and because the decks are so much thinner, the deck control increases drastically.

Second concept, tempo. With the rapid increase of deck control, the clock shortens. The games may feel longer due to all of the overall thinking time, but the actual turns taken shorten drastically. Because time is of the essence, precision is key. Small mistakes such as building out of order can squander overall deck potential and in the worst cases, waste an entire turn! You have less turns to do what you want to do and the windows are tighter.

Tracking the deck and having an overall plan is the third concept. Donate is very deterministic, and planning entire turns ahead is an absolute requirement. However, any competitive player worth his salt should be doing this anyways on all boards. Sometimes a good player can skate by on intuition and experience. Not so with Donate! In addition to tracking comes the concept of knowing the Kingdomís limits. What are the build paths to victory? How big can the build go? Remember, there is less time available, and the timing on when to green may change as a result! Donít be afraid to build big, but keep an eye out for Kingdom limits.


Overall, I would recommend newer players looking to get good at competitive Dominion play exclusively Donate games for long periods of time, since Donate demands good competitive knowledge and practices to win effectively. Concepts of tempo, deck tracking and having a plan are paramount to victory on any board, but even more so with Donate.

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Seprix's Card Creation Emporium
« on: April 30, 2018, 04:09:01 pm »
And now are some of the cards that line up with the set.

Bust Treasure - $4
You may trash a card in play. If you trashed a Bust or Silver, +$1.
(this card requires the trashing for +$1 Silver)

I like this and I can't wait to test it!

Dark Mage Action -$5
+3 Cards
You may discard a Curse in hand or gain a Curse for +1 Action.

This one is so wonky, it's probably really good or really bad, and I think it's more bad than good? Worth trying for sure. It's like a reverse Stables.

Whimsy Action-Reaction-$2
+1 Card
+1 Action
When you put a unique card type into play, you may reveal this card to play instantly.

And there's the sub theme, messing with card types. I have one that's basically HoP but for Card types which will be worse so there will be experimenting with an alternate bonus, probably +$2 or something.

Maybe Busted Alt-VP Victory-$7
2VP per two unique card types in your deck.

The default is 4 uniques, being Victory, Treasure, Curse and Action (realistically, but there could be a board with no Actions) There's Durations, Attacks, Reactions, Night as other common types. That brings this card up to 8 VP, which is just insane. Also absolutely game winning if in a Black Market deck. Yeah, it's just so OP potentially that I don't think it should even be a card?

Guardian Action-Attack $5
+1 Buy
+$1 per each unique card type in play (including this).
Each other player discards down to 4 cards in hand.

It's a terminal Gold variant, much like Wine Merchant and Sacred Grove. I think it's cute!

Those are the serious ideas so far.

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Seprix's Card Creation Emporium
« on: April 30, 2018, 07:11:16 am »
In general this is a great idea and there are some cool cards. I don't like the stuff that is strictly better than existing cards, like the Silver sifter or the Estate (which is bonkers with Shepherd) and also wouldn't venture into Copper substitute territory because Heirlooms already did that.

Duchy [unnamed] Victory $6
3 VP
If this pile is empty at the end of your turn, the game immediately ends.

I think DXV mentioned somewhere that during the early stages of design an empty Duchy pile was a game end trigger and that it led to all games being Duchy rushes. This is a bit more expensive but I'd still be careful.

The Nocturne Copper subs are actually interesting because they replace the actual Coppers, while the normal Coppers only have the plus effect.

I think stuff that's "strictly better" than other things are fine since it's only slightly and it's public. It's like a new game rule, just for that game. The Estate thing, yeah that might be busted but I'm okay with the slight Silver sifting.

Dominion Articles / Re: A place for the wisdom of top-tier players
« on: April 29, 2018, 06:00:50 pm »
you realise that was a question asked 4 years ago?

That was kinda my point.  This thread hadn't been posted in in 4 years... and it's still on page 7 on the forum.  That's a pretty sad rate of activity when you think about it.

Yeah but there's plenty of other threads where Top-Tier wisdom posts are. I mean, why look at one outlier as evidence for sad rates of activity?

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Seprix's Card Creation Emporium
« on: April 29, 2018, 05:40:56 pm »
So I've been thinking about some ideas in my head for some time, and I think I am ready to release these ideas. I haven't tested any of these, and it will be fun to do that at some point. Anyways, I have no idea what to do for the theme, but maybe it'll be Greek or something. Anyways, on to the cards.

Firstly, the most drastic idea, which has been explored in a lot of ways but not like this to my knowledge. It's the idea of replacing the starting base cards with something else, which comes with a bunch of logistical problems, but I think I have found an interesting way to make this work.

So each of the Base Starting cards has two potential replacements. This means Curse, Copper, Silver, Gold, Estate, Duchy, and Province. I've decided that these things would have to be public, so readily available to each player. Of course, replacing all of the cards multiple times over is a giant hassle, so I've decided on the idea of single randomizers instead. This way, it's small and you don't have to use a different pile for different base cards, you just ghost it instead, pretending the Copper is that public card. The only potential issue is that people might forget.

So the way this works is that zero to three of the base cards change ideally per game, that would be my initial recommendation. There will be a placement card that is public that will 'replace' the base card, so you would buy for example Copper, but the Copper would be treated like the replacement card. In my mind, this replacement card would still be considered Copper, so there wouldn't be any annoying issues with say, Moneylender if you wanted to use it. I'll probably have the header text read as "Copper [Ossified]" so it's both distinct but also considered a Copper at the end of the day.

Anyways, on to the card ideas. These are raw ideas, but they will be fun to test!


Copper [Ossify] Action-Treasure $1
+1 Action

Basically, Coppers become Action cards. You can Throne them now for Actions, or to help with Library in multiple ways, or make Necromancer more interesting, for example. You can even play them as Treasure cards instead, there's that flexibility. that Copper turns into an Action card kind of reminds me of turning into Stone, hence the name, and there's a potential Medusa/Gorgon theme there.

Copper [Unnamed] Action-Treasure $0

Terminal Silver. This one might change, it's not too hot.


Silver [Unnamed] Action-Treasure $3
+1 Action
You may discard a card, to draw +1 Card.

it's a weak sifter but it provides additional options over simply being a Silver. Maybe you really want to cycle and draw something potentially nice.

Silver [Unnamed] Treasure $3
When you trash this, +$1.

Nice for remodeling and trashing.


Gold [Cursed] Curse-Treasure $5
-2 VP

So yeah, it's cheaper but it's also Cursed. It runs into problems with Cursers though so I think this one won't make it. Kind of a filler idea.

Gold [Unnamed] Action-Treasure $6
You may trash this, to gain a card costing up to $5.

Duchy gainer in games, Gold gainers become even more enginey, and there's this cute flexibility going on here.


Estate [Sunken] Victory-Reaction $2
1 VP
When you discard this other than during Clean-Up, +$1.

Cute with sifters and Baron. Maybe exploitable though. I also don't have a second Estate idea at the moment.


Duchy [Royal] Action-Victory $6
You may play an Action card from your hand twice.
2 VP

Throne Room Duchy. Engines go bananas. I thought about a +buy Duchy but I think this is potentially more intriguing. I'm afraid to put it at $5 but it might be fine.
Duchy [unnamed] Victory $6
3 VP
If this pile is empty at the end of your turn, the game immediately ends.

It's another end game condition! Might enable some cool rushes or alternate strategies, and it costs $6 so it's harder to do.


Province [Unnnamed] Victory $7
5 VP

Just more potential timing to think about, plus remodeling changes, etc. I thought about doing a gambit Province where you can play it to trash it, then draw 5 extra cards on your next turn but that sounds really stupid. It also sounds really fun though. No idea what to do for the second slot.


Curse [Doomed] Action-Curse $0
Trash this, to gain 2 Coppers.
-2 VP

More junk but at least it's not -2 VP!

Curse [unnmaed] Action-Curse $0
+1 Card
+1 Action

If there are two Curses in play (including this), go directly into the Buy Phase.
-1 VP

You can sift with these Curses, but only a little bit! Maybe it can be upped to 3 Curses in play, it just needs actual testing. It's an old idea of mine and I've always liked it.

I have some other cards coming with another sub-theme but I think this is a good start for people to look over.

I had a Mystic in hand, and my opponent gave me Greed.  Next time I had my Mystic in hand, I received Bad Omens.

Your Mystic wasn't a Misstic.

General Discussion / Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« on: April 29, 2018, 07:33:11 am »
So anyone going to talk about the elephant in the room?

DefInfinity for sure.

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