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1

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Pestilence

« on: July 16, 2017, 07:38:38 am »

Am in the process of revisiting this set and just came up with a new card:

Dirty Silver $4 - TREASURE DURATION

$2 now and next turn. While this is in play another player may steal it from you during their buy phase. If they do they gain a plague token.

It is totally untested so far! As far as stealing goes my first instinct is that it would be better seen as a gain to the discard pile rather than to be put straight into the player's hand. Any feedback appreciated, I have a feeling it is going to need some changes! Would a treasure duration even work?!

2

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Pestilence

« on: April 21, 2015, 07:18:01 am »

Am now thinking about this for Hospital as it may still have been too good and favours the 5/2 split.

Hospital $4 - ACTION

+1 Card. +2 Actions. You may discard a plague token. If you don't, trash a card from your hand.
_________________________________________________________
When you gain this gain 2 plague tokens.

3

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Pestilence

« on: April 20, 2015, 05:30:41 am »

I have actually been rethinking Hospital a bit now because of how it turns plague into being something too good (well, early game in particular). Maybe it should be like this:

Hospital $4+ - ACTION

+1 Card. +2 Actions. Discard one of your plague tokens.
_______________________________________________
When you buy this you may over pay for it. If you do trash a card from your hand or discard pile per $1 you overpay.

4

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Pestilence

« on: April 20, 2015, 05:03:41 am »

Ok, I've been waiting almost 3 months for this day. Ratcatcher has now been revealed, and I really want to see what people say about this cantrip trashing discussion now.

When I first saw Ratcatcher, I didn't understand how it could exist. Cantrip trashing for $2. Ok, so of course the reserve makes it a little different from the hypothetical card discussed here. Being a reserve means 2 drawbacks. It will miss the shuffle more often, like a Duration. And, you get the benefit at least 1 turn later than normal. Though that only matters if you reshuffle during that turn. Oh, also since it only works at start of turn, you can't rely on drawing the cards you want to trash during your turn. But on the other side, it has things that make it better than normal cantrip trasher; mainly that it never becomes a dead card or a risk to play.  And you never have trouble lining it up with your junk.

Anyway, it was said here that cantrip trasher is far stronger than cantrip coin, and that it cannot cost less than $4. I would have agreed, except I'd seen Ratcatcher. Now I don't know what to think. Should you open double Ratcatcher every time? Does it cost $2 because at $3 it would be unfair to someone who opens 5/2, like Chapel? Is Hospital balanced because Ratcatcher exists?

I've not seen Ratcatcher yet but have playtested Hospital quite a bit. It is good at $5 because it is not only village trasher but the removal of plague makes it a double benefit. It does however get interesting later in the game when you have to trash better cards to remove any extra plague you may have been given by some other means. Of course if you have no plague it is just a village, but they cost 3 on their own anyway, so yes, I think $5 is a good cost for the hospital card.

5

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Pestilence

« on: April 14, 2015, 04:56:16 am »

OK, so it's back to being only when you buy Victory cards that the cost is increased by plague tokens.

6

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Pestilence

« on: April 10, 2015, 07:05:23 am »

BTW, a general comment about this set is that it mixes better than it plays on its own. Plague tokens also lengthen the game considerably allowing longer term strategies to really come into their own which I quite like. A Pestilence heavy game plays for about 1.5 - 2 hrs rather than the usual 45 mins - 1 hr.

Oh, and the "Miracle cure" effect when someone else gains a disease is fun and makes for interesting strategic decisions!

7

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Pestilence

« on: April 10, 2015, 05:42:24 am »

No, because once you have revealed it, you put it back into your hand, and then you can reveal "another" one and there's no way to tell if or not it's the one you already revealed. It's going to look a bit suspicious at the point when you have revealed more copies of the card than you have cards in hand, though.

Ah, good point. Okay thanks! It's probably better like this then:

Witch Doctor $3 - ACTION REACTION

Draw until you have 6 cards in hand.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
When one of your cards is trashed you may discard this. If you do, discard one of your Plague tokens and draw a card.

8

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Pestilence

« on: April 10, 2015, 04:49:19 am »

New card:

Witch Doctor $3 - ACTION REACTION

Draw until you have 6 cards in hand. When one of your cards is trashed you may reveal this. If you do, discard a plague token.


Not very exciting but I needed some more source of draw in the set.

The reaction needs to go beneath a horizontal line.  Also, as written, Witch Doctor allows you to discard all plague tokens when just one card is trashed.  Remember, you are allowed to reveal the same reaction multiple times.  If you want to get around that, you need to discard or set aside the reaction.

Oh well, I can just put you may reveal this once, can't I? BTW thanks for all your feedback as and when I post in this thread, v useful and insightful!

9

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Pestilence

« on: April 09, 2015, 04:30:39 am »

New card:

Witch Doctor $3 - ACTION REACTION

Draw until you have 6 cards in hand. When one of your cards is trashed you may reveal this. If you do, discard a plague token.


Not very exciting but I needed some more source of draw in the set.

10

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Pestilence

« on: April 08, 2015, 07:50:26 am »

Btw Surgeon can also be awesome when you add $1 to the cost of Victory cards per plague token you have.

Which may mean it needs nerfed with a "remove all/some of your plague tokens" clause, but I'll playtest some more.

11

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Pestilence

« on: April 08, 2015, 07:41:20 am »

My favourite card:

Haemorrhage!

12

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Pestilence

« on: April 08, 2015, 07:33:46 am »

UPDATE

Dominion: Pestilence

The following rules and cards are in play every time you use at least one card which would give plague tokens from Pestilence.

There are 72 plague tokens.

Each plague token you carry adds $1 to the cost of buying all victory cards.

You can only have a maximum of 12 plague tokens. If you would be forced to go above 12 plague tokens instead gain a curse. You can only be forced to gain a curse once per turn in this way.

Privy $0* – ACTION (this is not in the supply)

+1 Action. When you play this return it to the privy pile. Discard one of your plague tokens.
__________________________________________________________________________________
During your buy phase you may gain one privy for free without using up a buy.

Diseases $0* – DURATION ATTACK (this is not in the supply)

Deck of ten different cards. Shuffle and place face up. If you have 6 or more plague tokens at the end of your turn you gain the top disease. It goes directly into your play area and takes effect from the start of your next turn. It is not discarded during cleanup. At the start of each of your turns you may gain a plague token, if you do carry out the attack. This does not use up an ACTION. If you already have a disease you cannot gain a new disease. If there is already a Disease in play when you acquire one, the Disease already in play is then put to the bottom of the Diseases pile and that player discards all their plague tokens. Thus only one Disease is allowed in play at one time. The Disease is not an ACTION TREASURE or VICTORY card. It does go into your deck at the end of the game.

Pox – Each other player gains a plague token.

Bubonic Plague – Each other player gains 2 plague tokens.

Syphilis – Each other player gains a curse and a plague token.

Leprosy – Each other player with 4 or more cards discards a card. They also gain a plague token.

Dysentery – Each other player gains a privy and a plague token.

Gout – Each other player gains an Estate and a plague token.

Typhoid – Each other player discards a treasure card or reveals a hand with no treasures. They also gain a plague token.

Famine - Each other player gains a copper and a plague token.

Rickets – Each other player discards an action card or reveals a hand with no actions. They also gain a plague token.

Tapeworm – While this is in play each other player gets +1 buy this turn but trashes the first thing they buy costing at least $1. They also gain a plague token.



And now, the cards!!!

Doomsday Book $0* - ACTION

+2 Actions. Trash this. Draw a card for each plague token you have. This costs $1 per plague token you have.

Flea $1 - ACTION REACTION (20 card supply deck)

+2 Actions.
_________________________________________________________________________________
When you play this gain a Flea. When you discard this other than during cleanup it jumps to the player on your left's discard pile. When you trash this discard one of your plague tokens.

Contaminate $2 – ACTION

+$1. +1 buy. Place a plague token from the supply onto a supply deck of your choice. When a player gains a card if there are any plague tokens on it he gains one of them.

Quack $2 - ACTION INFECTION

+$1. You may gain a plague token. Everyone passes one of their plague tokens to the left. You may discard one of your plague tokens.

Astrologer $3 - ACTION

+1 Action. Name a card. Reveal the top 3 cards of your deck. Put the named cards into your hand and the rest back in any order.

Bath House $3 – VICTORY TREASURE

1VP. $1. When you gain this discard half of your plague tokens (round up).

Church $3 - ACTION DURATION REACTION

+1 card. Now and next turn +1 buy. Draw an extra card in this turn’s cleanup phase.
__________________________________________________________________________________
If you are attacked while this is in play you may discard a card to be unaffected.

Amputation $4 – ACTION INFECTION

$3. Draw one less card after cleanup this turn.
__________________________________________________________________________________
When you gain this gain 1 plague token.

Barber $4 – ACTION INFECTION

+$1. +1 Plague token. You may discard up to 3 Plague tokens. While this is in play +1VP token when you discard a Plague token.

Leech $4 - ACTION ATTACK

+$1. Each other player reveals the top 2 cards of their deck and trashes one costing up to $4 that you choose. The rest are discarded. You may gain any or all of the trashed cards.

Town Crier $4 – ACTION

$2. Look at the top card of your deck. Either put it into your hand or discard it and each other player gains a copy.

Charity $5 – TREASURE ATTACK

$1. Each other player discards the top two cards of their deck. If they discard any treasure, place a coin token on the Charity mat. If they don't, they gain a plague token.
__________________________________________________________________________________
You may take a coin from the Charity mat.

Haemorrhage $5 - ACTION INFECTION

+1 Action. Name an Action, Treasure or Victory card. Reveal cards from the top of your deck and trash cards of that type until you reveal the named card. Put that card into your hand and discard the rest. Gain a plague token for every card you trashed.

Hospital $5 – ACTION INFECTION

+1 Card. +2 Actions. Discard one of your plague tokens. If you did, trash a card from your hand.
__________________________________________________________________________________
When you gain this gain 2 plague tokens.

Infection $5 - ACTION ATTACK

+3 cards. Each other player gains a plague token.

Monastery $6 - ACTION

Reveal a non-treasure card from your hand costing up to $7. Gain a copy from the supply.

Surgeon $6 - ACTION

+2 coin tokens. You may trash a Victory Card from your hand. If you do, gain 1VP token per $ it costs.

Autopsy $7 - ACTION

+1 Action. You may put your deck into your discard pile. Put one card from it into your hand.

Royal College of Physicians $7 – VICTORY

2VP for every 2 Golds in your deck.

The Black Death $8 - ACTION INFECTION

+2 buys. +2 plague tokens. During your buy phase +$2 per plague token you have. Discard the top 2 cards of your deck. If you discard 2 treasures, +2 plague tokens and at the end of your turn pass this to the player on your right's discard pile.
_________________________________________________________________________________
When you trash this everyone discards all their plague tokens.

13

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Pestilence

« on: March 25, 2015, 06:57:25 am »

So...after playtesting hospital, I concede it is too good at $4 so will make it $5. The best option might actually have been to make it overpay for plague tokens, but I don't like that thematically so am just going for the gain 2 plague on buy. But, hold on, what about underpay, could that be an interesting strategy?

Hospital $3- - ACTION

+1 card. +2 actions. Discard one of your plague tokens. If you do trash a card from your hand.
_________________________________________________________

When you buy this you may underpay for it to a minimum of $0. If you do, gain a plague token per $1 you underpaid.


Or is that just way too crazy good?!

Maybe +1 card. +1 action?

14

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Pestilence

« on: March 25, 2015, 06:51:14 am »

Am now trying Surgeon with +2 coin tokens instead of $.

15

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Pestilence

« on: March 20, 2015, 10:15:48 am »

Ok, but I think the difference here comes with how it really encourages you to trash Victory cards. Bishop doesn't really do that because you are getting fewer VPs for trashing them than they are worth. That's why I think this card works well opposite Bishop.

Well, it works equally well for Estates, which are the VP cards most commonly trashed.

But with surgeon in the game, trashing Duchies and Provinces not only gets them out your deck but boosts the VP count as well.

16

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Pestilence

« on: March 20, 2015, 09:19:28 am »

Ok, but I think the difference here comes with how it really encourages you to trash Victory cards. Bishop doesn't really do that because you are getting fewer VPs for trashing them than they are worth. That's why I think this card works well opposite Bishop.

17

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Pestilence

« on: March 19, 2015, 08:44:27 am »

Am rethinking about Surgeon now. Is this too good?

Surgeon $6 - ACTION

$2. You may trash a Victory card from your hand. If you do, gain 1VP token per $ it costs or 2VP tokens if it has a potion in its cost.

The Potion clause is unnecessary complexity; it only applies to Vineyards and nobody who goes to the trouble of buying Vineyards is going to trash it for just 2VP.

This is more effective than Bishop for both coin and VP gaining, but it is restricted to VP cards only.  Balance-wise, I think it is fine testing as is (minus the Potion clause).  But the card is not that interesting because of how similar it is to Bishop.  The original was at least set apart by returning cards to the Supply, which has a different impact on games.  But you correctly noted that it would slow the game down a lot.  I noted afterwards that trashing instead would just make it too similar to Bishop, and that still holds here.

Ok I'll take out the potion clause. I still think there's a space for this card, if used well it is much better than Bishop and I don't see the problem with similar cards. I mean, look how many village cards there are in the game. It's not a problem for me, even if (statistically unlikely) both Bishop and Surgeon crop up in the same game.

18

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Pestilence

« on: March 12, 2015, 10:15:04 am »

Am rethinking about Surgeon now. Is this too good?

Surgeon $6 - ACTION

$2. You may trash a Victory card from your hand. If you do, gain 1VP token per $ it costs or 2VP tokens if it has a potion in its cost.

19

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Pestilence

« on: February 11, 2015, 04:04:05 am »

Gain two bad things as fodder when gaining a $4 card? That seems... established.

This is nicer though, since Death Cart's Ruins don't always collide.

Correct, but they do instantly hurt you and you have to wait til next shuffle before the chance to use Hospital.

To be clear, I'm not saying that it's a flaw that Hospital's junk is better than Death Cart's junk.  I'm just noting the fact.

The plague token effect actually won't hurt at all with Hospital, at least at first, because you'll be buying Hospitals early and using those tokens to trash down long before you get to greening.  It gets interesting later though.  Your first 3 Hospitals would get you 6 plague tokens which let you trash 6 cards, but the next one would leave you with an extra Plague token if the game doesn't otherwise have junking.  So do you stop at 3 Hospitals, or do you trash something decent, or do you buy more fodder to get rid of the extra plague tokens?  Junking and plague-giving cards add other factors to consider.  It's an interesting tension.

It depends on your strategy as there may be alt VP cards which you want earlier in the game....Nobles, Harem, Feodum etc. You are still paying one more per plague token for all those cards.

20

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Pestilence

« on: February 10, 2015, 03:52:02 am »

Gain two bad things as fodder when gaining a $4 card? That seems... established.

This is nicer though, since Death Cart's Ruins don't always collide.

Correct, but they do instantly hurt you and you have to wait til next shuffle before the chance to use Hospital.

21

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Pestilence

« on: February 09, 2015, 04:19:28 am »

Ok, yeah, good thinking guys. I think I'll scrap the overpay and make it come with 2 plague tokens. It'll be kind of like you're going somewhere riddled with disease but it will eventually make you better!

22

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Pestilence

« on: February 06, 2015, 05:54:59 am »

I think I've got it!!!

Hospital $4 - ACTION

+1 Card. +2 Actions. You may discard one of your plague tokens. If you do, trash a card from your hand.


or if that's still too powerful make the village effect happen after the discard and trashing effect.

23

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Pestilence

« on: February 05, 2015, 07:47:55 am »

Fine, I'm prepared to concede that can trip trasher is a tricky card to price. I am quite experienced though (although only against the same few players), and have all available sets and have played roughly 5 games a week for the last 2 years. It is my favourite game and I have spent quite a while thinking and reading about strategies. I know all you guys think engine is the best in most circumstances, but in my experience that is not necessarily true. Yes it's nice when you pull it off, and I think you can absolutely crush certain strategies if you devise the right engine against a weaker one, but it is not always the be all and end all. Most boards afford a huge variety of strategies, and you will not always be best off going for an engine even if there's one available. I think the best strategy changes just as frequently as the cards themselves and often a combination of strategies can work just as well too. Engines depend on a number of things being available together, that reduces the likelihood of it's availability as a strategy. Even then they can take a long time to build and get right, you will probably quite often just be getting started once other players already have a couple of provinces. Yes they will slow down, but you'd better hope that 3 piles don't run out before your engine kicks in! Tricky....

I also should add that I play with Platinum and Colonies in most games, and that tends to put a higher emphasis on payload and platinum itself.

That said, yes I understand can trip trashing is a hugely helpful kickstarter to the engine strategy. It does not, however, mean you can't have a good $4 card (hospital). The extra action on hospital means you will try and play it to play engine components (if you have no other +actions in hand) and will therefore start self-destructing your engine once it is built. It's almost like a tempter and is going to be a dangerous card to keep playing if you're relying on the +actions. However, it is actually quite a boring card anyway and I can see why Donald has never produced it, it's real interest in my set comes from the overpay to remove plague tokens ability. What would people think about:

Hospital $4+ - ACTION

+1 Card. +2 Actions. Discard one of your plague tokens. When you buy this you may overpay for it. For each $1 you overpay you may trash a card from your discard pile.

24

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Pestilence

« on: February 04, 2015, 07:42:20 am »

*QI sirens*

The difference between Festival and Woodcutter is +2 Actions in effect, and +2$ in cost. Therefore each +Action adds $1 to the cost.

I'll do the same with Moat. Adding +2 Actions to Moat will obviously be balanced at $4... right?

I didn't say anything about adding or removing actions...

25

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Pestilence

« on: February 04, 2015, 07:29:12 am »

Being able to target only Copper makes Spice Merchant able to at best do 70% of the trashing job a full cantrip trasher can, and in the presence of junkers it can easily fall to 50% or less. Junk Dealer and anything along its lines can do 100% of that job, and that difference is worth more than Spice Merchant's little side benefits. Especially when junk like Estates and Curses are much worse than Copper.

Yeah, I know Junk Dealer's better, that's why it's a $5 cost card. It trashes something and effectively draws you a card and a copper every time you play it. Spice Merchant draws you 2 cards (which is better if you have more engine components to draw) and still trashes the junky copper card.

Bazaar is a good comparison here as well. Village costs $3. Bazaar costs $5. The only difference is the drawing of phantom copper which is attributed $2.

Remove Junk Dealer's phantom copper and you have can trip trasher - therefore remove the $2 attributed to that card. Can trip trasher should cost $3.