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Messages - phyphor

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1
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Minor note about new printings
« on: November 01, 2020, 06:32:42 pm »
When you gain a card, you may reveal this from your hand, to exchange the card for a Silver.
No longer goes infinite when combined with Forum and a cost reducer. Probably for the best.

It does require a cost reducer (e.g. Highway), a card that gives benefit on buy (e.g. Goons), as well as Forum and Trader, being allowed to get sufficient cost-reducers and get the right cards in hand to pull off. It's not exactly very common.

It does also mean you can't, for example, top deck the silver with Watchtower, and various other changes.

2
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Dominion 2019 Errata and Rules Tweaks
« on: September 27, 2019, 12:13:35 pm »
Since Estates are now actions in the supply it opens up the inifnite Captain combos:

1. Reduce the cost of Captain
2. Inherit Captain
3. Play Estate as Captain
4. Play Captain as Estate
5. Goto 3.

Except:

Question: Does Inheriting something change the type of the Estate pile to Action - Victory during your turns as well (which has implications for other events and Teacher, etc.)? I don't think so, but just wanted to verify.
No. Normally you go by the randomizer card. Estate once had one for some reason and now does not. But, the "pile" is still always the printed Estate.

And:

All Estate cards are Action-Victory, including in the supply. The Estate pile itself, however, is still only a Victory pile, if I've interpreted that correctly.


3
Tournaments and Events / Re: Renaissance: The Tournament
« on: October 28, 2018, 04:57:19 pm »
Hello

/in

4
Tournaments and Events / Re: Renaissance: The Tournament
« on: September 25, 2018, 10:00:25 am »
Likewise, as "phy phor"

5
Mafia Game Threads / Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« on: September 04, 2018, 08:19:21 am »
f.ds does not exist primarily for Mafia (there's that DXV game...)

You can play Kingdom Builder here?

6
I note that we're still not at 10 players but if we get two people wanting to play I'm happy to drop out, but if we only get 1 player I'm happy to make up the numbers.

Looks like chairs and infangthief both want in, so I'm happy to duck out. There'll be another game soon enough!

7
Yeah, and I want a confirmation from phyphor that it's still here and hasn't forgotten about the game.

Confirmed.

I note that we're still not at 10 players but if we get two people wanting to play I'm happy to drop out, but if we only get 1 player I'm happy to make up the numbers.


8
I'll make up the numbers but if anyone would rather play instead I won't be broken hearted.

9
I guessed this too when you said "I am neither Cop nor Jailkeeper"

Yeah, for all the complaints about how subtle I was this was definitely a claim without saying the words.

I'm not sure I counted as timid, either.

10
If you want to force the day to end without a lynch

I wanted to remove my vote until I had a chance to think things through.

I did a 20 hour real world day just as the last day ended and I've just done a similar amount now. So my brain isn't quite able to follow all the tracks, especially as I try to consider what other people know or can deduce.

So, yes, sleep is good.

11
So I believe the options are:

I'm a Tracker, there's a Doctor who saved me from a Goon
I'm a Tracker, there's a Jailkeeper who jailed the Mafia Rolecop
I'm a Tracker, there's a Jailkeeper who jailed me and a failure looks like no result. (this seems unlikely from what I know but I'm awaiting clarification).
I'm a Tracker, and the Mafia chose not to take any actions (seems unlikely).
I'm a Goon, didn't kill anyone (by choice), and the Town Cop hasn't had a chance to speak up yet.
I'm a Goon, didn't kill anyone (because I'm in jail), and the Jailkeeper hasn't had a chance to speak up yet.

After confirming I can state authoritatively faust didn't take action and I wasn't in Jail.

vote: unvote

12
The thing is, if there is a Doctor and phyphor is lying, then there would be another power role out there who could confirm that phy is lying. The same is not true for Jailkeeper (JK), since those can exist as the only power role in the game.

So I believe the options are:

I'm a Tracker, there's a Doctor who saved me from a Goon
I'm a Tracker, there's a Jailkeeper who jailed the Mafia Rolecop
I'm a Tracker, there's a Jailkeeper who jailed me and a failure looks like no result. (this seems unlikely from what I know but I'm awaiting clarification).
I'm a Tracker, and the Mafia chose not to take any actions (seems unlikely).
I'm a Goon, didn't kill anyone (by choice), and the Town Cop hasn't had a chance to speak up yet.
I'm a Goon, didn't kill anyone (because I'm in jail), and the Jailkeeper hasn't had a chance to speak up yet.


I assume at this point the Jailkeeper should claim (and if there are two we lynch one today, and the other tomorrow).

If there's a Doctor then it makes it harder to plan a simple win.

If I'm telling the truth then we have 2 known townies (assuming that he mafia would've tried to kill me), and the Doctor needs to stay hidden, and tonight I track the next person. Arguably we would be better off forcing a non-vote, having another night, and the mafia would have to find the doctor before I find the mafia.

If we go down that route then we'd have D3 with at worst 7 of us, 3 of which would be determined to be town.

13
So phyphor, can you confirm that your result was actually received and you were not blocked (e.g. by a Jailkeeper)?

I don't know how I'd tell the difference in response but, as far as I can ell, I observed that faust didn't target anyone.

14
I had a whole load of text written up to defend myself from the verbal attack from faust but then I watched faust last night and they didn't target anybody.

Either faust is mafia and decided to have a quiet night to get me lynched (which seems like an odd play) or someone else is mafia and their attempted kill was impeded.

I'll not bother to go quite as aggressive in response to faust's post because I saw what I saw and going after someone that I didn't see target anyone is not a sensible use of my time.

I will, however, respond to:

The cryptic claim trying to leave itself an out should a counterclaim come,

Really? What's the out? What other possible role could I have claimed and made the same statement I did? There isn't one.

Yes, it was cryptic. Yes, I shouldn't have been cryptic (as others have pointed out). I accept that was a fault of mine, but for you to claim it as scummy is a reach.

the pointless vote for me

You acted scummy, and we might have had the opportunity to discuss whether it was sufficient to damn you. I needed to move my vote. I wanted to make it clear what I thought of your actions. Both of these make it far from "pointless" to switch my vote to you, especially bearing in mind I was active at the time and, once those of us that were still here had a discussion, was able to change my vote.


and refusal to do anything useful.

Except I was able to stop myself being lynched by the town, as a PR, and L-1 someone (who turned out to bee mafia).

Well, we shall see. At least for scum!phyphor it will be nontrivial to produce fake resuls, there is a chance to catch it like that.

If you (or anyone else) genuinely believes that I'd risk a 1/3 chance of being caught out then it's not a stretch to assume I wouldn't risk making up a fake result were I lying.

There is no way I can prove myself without letting myself be lynched which, obviously, I'm against.

I do, however, bear a grudge so I'm going to kick off with this and then go sleep.

vote: hypercube

That said, I want to apologise unreservedly. I spoke rashly previously, and against the civility pledge, and what I should've said is:

You're acting like a goshdarned fool!

Or said that your behaviour was "goshdarned foolish". Calling anyone a name, even as jovially as I did, even within the context of the game, is both impolite and improper.

Again, I apologise for my acions and will endeavour to behave with more civility.

15
Mafia Game Threads / Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« on: August 22, 2018, 06:18:50 pm »
I advertised forum games on Discord

Yes, yes you did. In general there are "better" places to play online Mafia, but what this place has is community. The downside is that a new player suffers the disadvantage of not knowing the expected meta nor how people tend to play. Having multiple "new player" games might help alleviate that, but that requires more new people to join in (hence advertising on discord seems like a good idea).

16
*intent to hammer, but yeah, I was about to claim.

Damn.

Also, @WCD, generally wait to see if the person has a claim. Given the way this day went down it seems pretty unlikely Simon was also a PR and hadn't claimed yet, but it's certainly possible.

It's plausible they're the doctor. Although this is likely to mean after tonight it's going to be a purely vanilla game.

17
Ugh. L1, right. But could we please consider lynching Hyper? I can't see anything townie from him in the argument with [phyphor].

I still get a read off faust, obviously (because going after me then vanishing isn't polite), but I agree that Hyper's insistence to keep at me is baffling. Apparently "claimed good town reads" are better than "an actual PR claim", but c'est la vie.

18
Also, were you expecting someone to verify phyphor's claim?

Nobody can verify my claim but I assume you mean counter it.

My hesitancy to vote Simon was simply because I feel I'm being pressured into it by Mafia, but when it came to losing a town PR then I had to take the necessary step.

If Simon is innocent then Mafia can get away with sowing discord and having no D1 lynch, or we have to plead which means when one of them switches they've got plausible deniability.


I'm out of touch with site meta, but this at least used to be pretty common (honestly too common IMO). Definitely don't rule it out.

From experience elsewhere scum throwing another scum under the bus is unusual on Day 1, but can happen.


Also, that phyhor/hyper argument is super confusing and I don't know what to make of it other than they should both take a look at the setup again.

But I can't see why either of their weird opinions have a scum motivation (or a town motivation), I think they are just both confused.

I believe hyper's suggestion is:
If we assume I'm not the tracker than claiming tracker opens me up to a counter-claim by several roles, although if I were Mafia I'd be able to manage which those could be. If I am a Mafia then claiming a "safe" role is a good way to save myself from lynching.

If I'm Mafia then it's plausible that both the Mafia are simple goons, meaning that we're in C and as two of the three ways we could be in C would have only a single town PR if we're in C1 or C2 then the sole town PR couldn't unmask the lie.

If we were in C3 then, assuming I'm not really the tracker, real the tracker would be able to unmask me.

The claim, therefore, is that I'm mafia and my claim is a ruse and we're in C1 or C2.

My counter-proposal is that if we ran the same logic above then claiming Doctor would be better because it would force the doctor to reveal themselves, making them a juicy target.

19
If you are scum, and you estimated your chance of getting lynched as being > 1/3 (I would have estimated it as such), then it's a smart play to make the fake claim just based on the probability of a counterclaim. A Tracker fake claim could go uncontested for the whole game (if we're in C1 or C2), so I don't think it's obvious that Doctor is the only sensible claim.

Again, either Doctor goes uncontested or the Mafia have their best first night target.

But apparently claiming Tracker is better?

You're a goshdarned fool! Although you're either scum or being a willing patsy and setting yourself up for a D2 lynching.

20
Phy, why are you voting (still) for Faust?

Because I got a scum read off hem and I was hoping not to lynch someone innocent as directed by the Mafia.

But I'll have to L-1 vote: Simon Jester

21
It's not that lucky if you're scum that knows we're in a C setup.

So when I flip town you'll, what, claim that those vets you got a good town read on are to blame?

I have made an uncontested claim and you still want to go after me? Because you believe that I'm a plain goon, and tried to get lucky?

The sensible claim for a Mafia is Doctor - every other role is paired with them so it would take two people claiming or to have the doctor reveal themselves. But, sure, I played the odds and gambled on Tracker, because that's sensible!

22
If you know you're town (a town PR at that), why wouldn't you vote for someone who might be scum to save yourself?

Because there's a chance we can still turn this around and take out actual scum, like people doctor fishing.

23
So the belief is that (a) I hunted out a fake claim, and (b) got lucky with that claim?

Oh, this is smart!
This implies you believe I'm mafia.
So do you believe I'm the Rolecop and the tracker or neopolitan are choosing to be quiet?
Or do you believe that I'm the Roleblocker or the Goon?

What my uncontested claim of Tracker implies is we have a Cop, Jailkeeper or Doctor  - if there is any town PR that is any other role, or is the Tracker, they would know that I was lying (as would any Tracker).

Which would make it most likely I'd be a Goon, hoping that 2/3 of the time the Jailkeeper or Cop would believe that my claim is valid.

IF YOU ARE THE DOCTOR DO NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE, REVEAL YOURSELF TO SAVE ME!

Doctor >>> Tracker.

24
Well, the point of having townreads is that you can place value on their opinions when you have difficult decisions to make. I think it's completely plausible that phyphor recognized it was in trouble and spent its time coming up with a fake claim rather than fake reads. However, to make a decision the probability of phyphor being scum has to be weighed against the risk of lynching a PR. Having my top scumread (silver) suggest I not vote phyphor and my town reads vote for it definitely carries weight when evaluating the probabilities.

So the belief is that (a) I hunted out a fake claim, and (b) got lucky with that claim?

25
I'm going to trust the people I'm townreading here and vote: phyphor.

Spicy!

Foolish, but hella spicy!

Clearly I should L-1 Simon Jester in order to save my skin, but I don't particularly feel compelled to dance to someone else's tune.

So, what next?

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