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Messages - faust

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1
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: Today at 04:01:49 am »
Quote
Message
Action $4*
+2 Cards
+1 Action
You may discard a Messenger. If you don't, return this to the Message pile.
(This is not in the supply)
Quote
Messenger
Action $3
+ $2
Gain a Message from the Message pile.
Messenger is already a card name.

2
I feel like this is too intricate, and what cards are "Prosperity-like" gives immediate cause for debate.

I think Colonies should just appear at random across all boards. The easiest way to implement this is to create a Landmark that just says "Setup: Put Colonies and Platina in the supply. This does not count towards the total number of Landmarks/Events/Projects".
Instead: Add the Colony pile, the Platinum pile, and another Event, Landmark, or Project to the game.
Well that way you'd never play Colony games without sideways cards.

3
he benefit of how I did it is that when you have Colonies you're also going to see cards that boost economies.
It debatable whether Prosperity cards are even better than average for economy boost. A lot of cards in there don't work with a Colony deck, particularly most kingdom treasures.

4
This is false. If you overdraw your deck adding more draw power doesn't increase Coin (or Coffers) yield.

While you are of course totally right that drawing cards make it more likely that you draw payload cards it is simply a bad way to think about the game because there is often an elementary trade-off about adding draw or payload power to a deck. Pretending that the former implies the latter is not helpful at all for deck construction and I seriously doubt that you actually think according to your "Cards=Coins" claim during playing. If the game were so simple it would be solved.

If you "overdraw" your deck, the real problem is that you have overtrashed your deck.

Well, sometimes overdraw is good, for example with mid-turn gaining or discard for benefit.
Somehow you've come full circle and now try to use the original argument Awaclus was making against him. I suggest always checking the context of a discussion to avoid chiming in with a completely beside-the-point comment.

5
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: November 15, 2018, 06:03:40 am »
Also, non-trivially, Mob doesn't hurt BM players. I recently made another Attack which doesn't hurt BM and Kudasai rightly pointed out that this could be a huge issue. So if the card has any serious issues it is precisely this, namely that there is a simple way to avoid the Attack totally.

There is precedent for Attacks that do not hurt BM in Enchantress. I don't think it's an issue per se, only if the card is strong enough to actually force BM on a large chunk of boards.

6
I find the power of Recruiter is not so much that it can be a Lost City but rather that you can smooth out. When trashing your starting cards, it can be a Lab 6/10 times, and the other times you probably didn't draw any actions anyway.

7
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: November 15, 2018, 12:54:47 am »
Updated Pretender so that it now only attacks 5-card hands.

8
I feel like this is too intricate, and what cards are "Prosperity-like" gives immediate cause for debate.

I think Colonies should just appear at random across all boards. The easiest way to implement this is to create a Landmark that just says "Setup: Put Colonies and Platina in the supply. This does not count towards the total number of Landmarks/Events/Projects".

9
Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Can you infinitely play nesting Black Markets?
« on: November 14, 2018, 10:31:02 am »
Since with Doctor, you put the revealed card back in any order, it's clear that they have been moved in the process of being revealed.

Indeed... but I think it's an inconsistency, because Wishing Well does not tell you to put the revealed card back.
I think reveal always comes with an implicit "after finishing revealing, put this back to where you revealed it from". Although I am not sure if it is always clear when the revealing ends exactly.

10
Rules Questions / Re: Capitalism and Black Market
« on: November 14, 2018, 09:27:24 am »
Buying a card doesn't prevent you from playing any treasures for the rest of the turn. Otherwise, buying any card from the Blck Market would prevent Storyteller or your Buy phase from working.
No; the stated rule only applies during your buy phase. It is however clear from context that the rule is supposed to deal with "regular" buys, and clearly did not anticipate Capitalism (unlike Karl Marx). I think it is simply a case where the rules should be updated in some future edition.

11
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Spices > Gold
« on: November 14, 2018, 08:06:55 am »
I'd be hard pressed to construct a Kingdom with Contraband and Spices where the first would be considered. This is really close to "strictly better".
Just add some Events and Projects. Contraband can always buy those. On Dominate boards, I could see a Contraband > Spices case.

12
Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Can you infinitely play nesting Black Markets?
« on: November 14, 2018, 01:43:28 am »
Since with Doctor, you put the revealed card back in any order, it's clear that they have been moved in the process of being revealed.

13
Mafia Game Threads / Re: f.ds Mafia Hub
« on: November 14, 2018, 01:05:44 am »
I'm overdue to run something. Let me think about it tonight...

If we want something small-ish, would anyone be interested in playing Epic Duel? Alternatively, I could run something more standard like asher9++. Preferences?

Unless I think of something interesting soon, you may get radiology as a theme, because I'm feeling otherwise uninspired :-P
I think your link is broken.

Anyway I checked it out. Not the biggest fan of Nightless runs, I feel they are better suited to Blitz games. I'm fine with doing some standard setup.

14
Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Can you infinitely play nesting Black Markets?
« on: November 13, 2018, 01:39:34 am »
Yes.

Kingdom needs Black Market, Watchtower, Rogue, Mandarin, Storyteller, Capitalism

Mandarin in the trash. Deck: BM, Watchtower, Rogue, Storyteller. Capitalism bought.

Play BM
  Play Storyteller
    Play Rogue gaining Mandarin, trashing with Watchtower
      topdeck Storyteller, BM, Rogue
    draw Rogue, Storyteller, BM from Storyteller

And repeat.

15
Mafia Game Threads / Re: f.ds Mafia Hub
« on: November 12, 2018, 11:52:23 am »
I will mod something once October is over.  I'm going to be really busy until November.
Is this happening?

I could also open my RMM soon, but it's not small and maybe a small game would be better.

16
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Aggressive Reserve cards?
« on: November 12, 2018, 10:52:16 am »
Or maybe a nasty attack that is its own defence: "[Evil stuff].Put this on your tavern mat. -- During your clean-up phase, you may discard this from your Tavern mat. -- While this is in reserve, when another player plays [one of these], it doesn't affect you." Whether or not to keep it in reserve could be an interestingly difficult decision.
Meh. The most common result seems that both players get one, then one player gets to attack once and then both players are protected for the rest of the game. I'm not convinced that calling this is an interesting decision when you could just buy another copy and still be protected.


So... what about cards that aren't attacks, but hurt other players when called?
I don't think people are generally fans of unblockable attacks that aren't Attacks.

My first thought is a "+1 Action. Put this on your Tavern mat. -- When you would gain a card, you may call this. If you do, the current player gains it instead." Is this actually a workable version of the oft-discussed defence which turns an attack back on the attacker? (One key point is that the attacker could see in advance what they were up against; another is that it looks uncommonly intuitive and free from nasty corner cases.)
This particular idea is completely useless without attacks, and I suspect too weak to matter even with them. You could give it some extra effect on play, but if that's good then that just punishes your opponent doubly for attacking you, since now you also get to play your amazing card again. Come think of it, a 1-shot that you can retrieve when being attacked might be somewhat interesting, without the whole hurt the other player stuff.

17
Dominion Online at Shuffle iT / Re: Missing auto-plays
« on: November 11, 2018, 06:33:59 am »
Auto-end turn if you are the only player left with fleet turns and winning.

18
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: November 11, 2018, 05:18:53 am »


Now the big difference here is the Attacked players can't play their cards for draw, which takes away some of the fun of the original. I think by discarding the cards it makes it more clear that the Attacked players mostly don't get the benefit of the played cards. Also, it's unclear when those played cards get discarded. During that players next Clean-up? There really aren't any rules for this.

You could also try adding some text that specifies things like Coin don't carry over, but that would get wordy.
Thanks for the feedback! I think a problem with your suggestion is that now the first time it is played, Pretender will be significantly more powerful. Forcing people to discard an Attack is almost Pillage-level strong, so having it on a card that is not a one-shot seems quite problematic.

I think the fact that they don't get benefits that cannot be used out of turn should be clear from the existing ruling on Caravan Guard and tokens. When the cards are discarded is less clear, but the idea is to discard them during that player's next cleanup, which is the first time they really can do so since there are no cleanup phases before that.

It could be that playing mulitples of my version is too strong, but in that case I think I prefer just restricting the effect to players with 4 or more cards in hand rather than doing the discard thing.

19
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: November 11, 2018, 05:07:39 am »
The key thing to realize is that they get to play a card non-terminally whereas you don't. So in this respect Pretender is a gift.

But if the card they play is a village it sucks (you get a village, they get a cantrip) for them. Or more generally, all the vanilla stuff except for card draw is wasted. So being forced to play a Smithy seems like a gift.
Here we come to the last issue, handsize attacks. Suppose Alice has Village and Smithy in hand and Bob players Pretender. Alice doesn't want to play the Village as mere cantrip and she doesn't want to play the Smithy lest the Militia hits her afterwards. She wants to keep both Actions in hand but cannot due to Pretender's "Attack".

This is hard to judge but my hunch is that more often that not this is rather a gift than an Attack. The card, or more generally the copy-stuff-from-other-players idea behind it, is very interesting. But I wouldn't categorize it as Attack. Attacks nearly unambiguously always hurt. Sure, you might love Treasure Hunter being hit by Enchantress or love those incoming Curses to feed your Foragers but these are, just like the Knight-Fortess example that faust mentioned, exceptions.
Yes, attacking another player is definitely not the central part of what the card does. I think it still should be attack type (the same way a hypothetical card that gives your opponents Silvers should be an attack) because there will be boards where it can be used to hurt other players. The main goal creating htis was to have a novel kind of attack that isn't just a variation on existing attacks. Another more attack-y idea didn't work out.

20
Let's Discuss ... / Re: Let's Discuss Renaissance Cards: Inventor
« on: November 10, 2018, 05:48:37 am »
I just realized that Inventor has reversed the recent mantra of "cost-reducing effects go below the line" set by Highway and Bridge Troll. I suppose it needs to in order to not reduce costs before gaining, but then again it could have just said "up to $3".

21
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: November 10, 2018, 02:41:09 am »
Thought of this one a few weeks ago, finally made it into card form today...hopefully, it still counts!
(....even if it doesn't count for the contest, per se, I'd still like feedback!)


This is somewhat iffy with Duration rules. By the rules, you should discard this on the last turn it does something. But with the current wording, the last turn it does something is actually the turn of your last opponent, so by the rules, you would have to dscard it during your opponent's turn, which is just weird. I believe this is this reason why other Duration-Attacks always still do something at the start of your next turn.

22
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: November 10, 2018, 02:34:02 am »


EDIT: Some changes to reduce craziness and tracking issues.

I don't understand why this should be an Attack card. Sure, some cards like Harvest or Abandoned Mine are gone, but other cards like Smithy or Jack of All Trades even like this card
Well, Fortress likes Knights and they are still an attack.

23
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: November 09, 2018, 12:04:50 pm »


EDIT: Some changes to reduce craziness and tracking issues.

EDIT 2: Restricted to players with 5-card hands.

24
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: November 09, 2018, 11:46:07 am »

I don't think a "while in play" effect works with attack typing and reactions like Moat. Also it would need a dividing line like this.
I was going for a Swamp Hag kind of thing.  I guess I should have taken some wording from there.

How is, "Until your next turn, when an opponent plays an action card that produces $, it produces 1 fewer $."
How would I word this to make it not stackable?
"Until your next turn, when an opponent plays an action card that produces $, they take their -1$ token".

This is great, but the attack is significantly different than what I hoped when worded like this.
I don't really see how it would play differently from your original suggestion.

25
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: November 09, 2018, 03:11:30 am »
The new wording leads to stacking so I'd stick with the "while this is in play" wording which is the classical anti-Throne wording from cards like Highway and thus totally fine.
It's not though. There is a reason that Swamp Hag etc. don't say "while this is in play", because it is unclear whether such effects would be blockable with Moat etc.

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