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Messages - Destry

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1
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Really bad card ideas
« on: December 12, 2016, 04:10:14 pm »
Quote
Band of Imaginary Friends - Action
Play this as if it were a card not in the Supply that you choose.
This is that card until it leaves play.

2
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Outcasts
« on: November 23, 2016, 04:32:27 pm »
And I thought of better wording for Tribute Long Name.

3
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Outcasts
« on: November 23, 2016, 04:13:55 pm »
Thanks for the comments. I put a fix on Ruined Hall, Super Secret Chamber, and Tribute Long Name.

Master Coppersmith is a bit unsatisfying. Evil Coppersmith is the alternative I thought of later.

Quote
Evil Coppersmith
Cost Action-Duration-Attack
This turn and next turn, +
Treasures other than Copper produce less (but not less than ).

4
Variants and Fan Cards / Dominion: Outcasts
« on: November 01, 2016, 12:49:47 pm »
When they heard they'd been cut, they took it hard. Their entire reason for existing meant nothing anymore. Some resolved to be better. Saboteur now works on building homes for the homeless. Some became bitter and angry. Chancellor would no longer use his subtle powers for good, but for subtle evil. The world had turned upside down, and they all learned to be better, be stronger.

Quote
Attack Chancellor
Cost: - Action-Attack
+
Each other player shuffles their discard deck and puts it under their draw deck.

Quote
Drunk Thief
Cost: - Action-Attack
Reveal the top two cards of your deck, and trash one of the revealed treasures. Either each other player gains a copy of the trashed treasure; or you gain the trashed treasure to hand. Discard the other revealed cards.

Quote
Grand Feast
Cost: - Action
Trash this card. Gain 3 cards costing up to

Quote
MisAdventurer
Cost: - Treasure-Attack

Each other player reveals cards from their deck until they reveal 2 Victory cards. They put those Victory cards on their deck and discard the other revealed cards.

Quote
Desk Duty Spy
Cost: - Action
+1 Action
Look the top 2 cards of your deck. Put one in your hand and either discard or put the other on your deck.

Quote
Woodcutter Who Learned Nothing
Cost: - Action
+
+1 Buy

--
Quote
Friendly Saboteur
Cost: - Action
Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal a card or less. Trash it and gain a card costing up to more. Discard the other revealed cards.

Quote
Ruined Hall
Cost: - Action-Victory
+1 Card
+1 Action
---
-1 VP
---
When you gain this during your turn, return this and any Ruined Halls in play to the Supply. Each other player gains a Ruined Hall.

Quote
Evil Coppersmith
Cost Action-Duration-Attack
This turn and next turn, +
Treasures other than Copper produce less (but not less than ).

Quote
Infiltrating Scout
Cost: - Action-Attack
+1 Action
Each other player reveals the top 4 cards of their deck. They put the revealed Victory cards on top of their deck in any order and discard the other cards.

Quote
Super Secret Chamber
Cost: Action-Reaction-Duration
+1 Action
+3 Cards
Put 2 cards from your hand on top of your deck
---
When another player plays an Attack card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, discard any number of cards.  At the start of your next turn, + per card discarded.

Quote
Tribute that Doesn't Understand What an Attack Is
Cost: - Action-Attack
Reveal and discard the top two cards of your deck.
+2 Action -1 Action/Action revealed
+ -/Treasure revealed
+2 Cards -1 Card/Victory revealed

--edited to fix rules problems described below--
Ruined Hall - Changed to "When you gain during your turn"

Super Secret Chamber - Added "at the start of your next turn"

Tribute Long Name - Reworded
Quote
Tribute that Doesn't Understand What an Attack Is
Cost: - Action-Attack
+
+2 Action
+2 Cards
Reveal and discard the top two cards of your deck. For each card revealed, if it's an...
Action Card, -1 Action
Treasure Card, - to a minimum of
Victory Card -  The player to your left randomly chooses a card in your hand. Discards that card.


Master Coppersmith - replaced with Evil Coppersmith
Quote
Master Coppersmith
Cost: - Action-Duration
This turn and next turn, +1 buy
While this is in play, Copper produce 1 more.


5
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« on: October 20, 2016, 05:01:34 pm »
I see what you're trying to do with the variable cost on Rabbits - or if not in the Rabbits pile. Just cost it at and avoid the unneeded complexity.

6
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Kru5h's card ideas
« on: October 20, 2016, 04:51:09 pm »
So... what happens if I put my Rabbit on the Curse pile? Does that mean my opponent's Witch no longer gives me Curses? Personally, I think that's a feature, not a bug.

7
Nice bare bones generator. Keep up the good work.

8
Minor point - When you have Young Witch, the Bane card is not explicitly marked (I assume it's the extra card under the top two rows.

Also would be nice to specify which expansion each card is from for those who store their cards by expansion.

9
Dominion Online at Shuffle iT / Re: Black Market?
« on: September 23, 2016, 12:40:52 pm »
Theoretically, since it is an online implementation, you could have the players choose how they want the Black Market deck to be set up. Have a panel for each player to choose if they want the cards to come from which expansions, whether players can look through the deck, add setup items at the beginning or as cards are revealed. Could even be set up as a preference, so you don't have to go through it each time Black Market comes up. If there's a difference, you could indicate if you care and how much, and negotiate from there.

I say theoretically since it would be a silly amount of work for practically no benefit.

10
Would Ambush/Hired Help as separate entries split the vote for that event? Or is everyone voting for one voting for the other? Seems like they should be combined to simplify things.

11
Mini-Set Design Contest / Re: Mini-Set Mock-ups 2.0
« on: September 16, 2016, 04:07:41 pm »
Seer refers to a Soothsayer mat.

12
Dominion Online at Shuffle iT / Re: Black Market?
« on: September 15, 2016, 06:33:42 pm »
Personally I prefer the way Goko does it. (I think... it's been a while.) 25 random cards from the expansions owned. If there are any additional setups, then they are added at initial setup and not mid-game. After cards are revealed, player determines order placed on the bottom.

13
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Events costing $P
« on: August 01, 2016, 04:25:56 pm »
Or better yet, a Event that costs 2

Quote
Lapis Philosophorum
Event
Cost: 2
+1 Buy
Trash 2 from play. If you did, gain 4 Gold cards, putting them on top of your deck.

14
Quote
Ossuary
Types: Landmark
When scoring, if the trash is not empty, the most common card in the trash is worth +1 VP. (If it's a tie, all tied cards are.)

Setup: Trash a Duchy.

Trying a quick fix.

15
Quote
Ossuary
Types: Landmark
When scoring, the most common card in the trash is worth +1 VP. (If it's a tie, all tied cards are.)

Setup: Trash a Duchy.

This doesn't need the setup rule; cards get trashed in most games.

Just want to point that without the setup, in a game without trashing, all cards are tied for most common card in the trash, and therefore, all cards are +1 VP. The largest deck would get a pretty big bonus.

It's equally valid (and I'd say more common) to say that there must be at least 1 copy in the trash for it to count.  If there's nothing trashed, then thre is nothing in the trash to be worth +1VP.

Good point, especially since you could use, say Gravedigger, to retrieve the lone Duchy from the trash and leave it empty. I do prefer it with the setup and have a default bonus card.

16
Quote
Ossuary
Types: Landmark
When scoring, the most common card in the trash is worth +1 VP. (If it's a tie, all tied cards are.)

Setup: Trash a Duchy.

This doesn't need the setup rule; cards get trashed in most games.

Just want to point that without the setup, in a game without trashing, all cards are tied for most common card in the trash, and therefore, all cards are +1 VP. The largest deck would get a pretty big bonus.

17
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Toll Station: Interactive Duration
« on: July 28, 2016, 01:48:28 pm »
I like the +buy on the top part of the card. It works with the duration effect, since the turn you play it, it makes it easier to buy 2 Victory Cards.

I agree the trigger for stopping the duration shouldn't rely on another player playing a Toll Road. Buying a Toll Road from Black Market makes it unstoppable. More importantly, it tends to force players to follow the same strategy, which can get boring.

18
I play almost exclusively 3-4 player games and, practically speaking, the kingmaking you describe - holding off buying province or three pile so player A can win instead of player B - never comes up. The common attitude is, if I'm not going to win, then I want to end the game as quickly as possible so I can play another round I could win. It becomes one of the unspoken rules, and you take it into account when you play (ie, if you still can win, you avoid making it easy for anyone to end the game before you can catch up.)

Sure, but your group having a consistent priority doesn't make it the "right"  choice, and since it is still a choice, it's kingmaking. This topic has come up before as well. What if you're in a tournament setting where 2nd place is better than 3rd? What if you're a new group without established conventions?

Another common attitude among the general gaming population is to target the leader, which is the opposite of what you're describing (trying to end the game sooner helps whoever is in the lead).

I see your point, and I'm not saying it never happens, but I have never seen anyone calculate the points, and actively make the decision to end or not end a game of Dominion based on letting player A win over player B. The stakes are way too low to make it worthwhile. Kingmaking, to me at least, connotes someone is actively deciding to help someone else win, which I haven't seen in this case.

As a general rule, I would consider it to be bad sportsmanship purposefully make make a move that guarantees you lose the game. Especially if that decision specifically helps one player over another.

The problem comes when a player is literally mathematically eliminated from the game; which can certainly happen in 3 player Dominion... player A has 6 Provinces, player B has 5 Provinces, and player C, who is really new to or really bad at Dominion, has none. For argument sake we could say that a bunch of Duchies are gone too; so that it's a literal elimination, but even with 12 Duchies available, it's reasonable to consider yourself eliminated even then; you know you aren't going to get every single Duchy plus some Estates before anyone gets a Province (or just buys some Duchies/Estates of their own). In these situations, there's a valid question that the player has to ask, which is "what is my goal now"? There seems to be 3 (legitimate) possible goals you can have:

1. Get the highest place possible; do the move that gets you second place.
2. Maximize your own score; no matter how it affects the ranking.
3. Minimize the difference in score between you and the winner; come as close as possible to winning.

I don't think I can fault anyone for choosing any of those 3. But it needs to be a situation where actual victory is not an option.

We usually choose option 4 - get as much game play in as possible.

19
I play almost exclusively 3-4 player games and, practically speaking, the kingmaking you describe - holding off buying province or three pile so player A can win instead of player B - never comes up. The common attitude is, if I'm not going to win, then I want to end the game as quickly as possible so I can play another round I could win. It becomes one of the unspoken rules, and you take it into account when you play (ie, if you still can win, you avoid making it easy for anyone to end the game before you can catch up.)

20
I don't think you can get around Illusionist is a political card. Not necessarily a bad thing if you like that, though Donald X has studiously avoided making cards like that.

Seems more thematic, and a logical nerf, instead of trashing the gained card, they gain a card of equal cost you choose instead.

21
majiponi's solution seems pretty good for your Thug.

Quote
Thug
some cost
Action-Reaction-Attack

You may only play this card during another player's turn.
The player who bought a card gains +1 and gives it to you.
---
When another player buys a card, you may play this from your hand, or, if this card is in play, you may put this in your hand and play it.

There. Now it's a moat-able attack as well.

--edited to make it act as if revealed so you can use it multiple times per player, but only once per buy.

22
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Enterprise (Beta)
« on: July 21, 2016, 02:12:56 pm »
In other games, where there's a contradiction between cards played, it's resolved in the order the cards are played.

I don't think it applies in this case of Contraband/Charlatan described. Contraband makes the available cards unavailable, so Charlatan fails to force you to buy a Copper or Curse, same as if the piles were empty.

23
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Make an attack that dishes out Debt
« on: July 20, 2016, 06:46:09 pm »
Speaking from experience, tristan is a troll and should not be fed.

Seconded. You don't have to get tristan to agree with you in order for the rest of us to see that you're in the right, Destry. tristan is just a real horatio83 when you come right down to it.

But, but, but I just carefully crafted a response that will surely sweep him away with the power of my logic. That will work, won't it?

I cannot in good conscience leave a fellow internet denizen in darkness and error. It is my sacred duty to bring him to the light. Someone is wrong on the internet, and I must help them.


[How about engaging with my actual argument?  ::)

But you don't make an actual argument about how ordinary playtesting is superior to exclusion testing. You just stomp your metaphoric feet and claim more ordinary playtesting is sufficient and exclusion testing is dubious at best.

Let me give you an example of how ordinary playtesting may not give you the results you're looking for. Way back when, Donald X introduced a new card - Treasure Map - that gave you 3 Gold in your discard if you matched two of them. Ho ho ho - that's crazy! 3 Gold! Everybody bought them during those first games they appeared, and would overbuy them to prevent others from getting two to match. And the person who bought them always won - since everyone was basing their strategy on matching Treasure Maps. I vividly remember one demoralizing game where the Treasure Maps ran out before I could get a second one. Good thing Donald X nerfed that overpowered card!

Except - spoiler! - that's not the version that ended up in Seaside. When players followed different strategies -  were excluded from buying Treasure Map - did it become obvious TM wasn't overpowered. Actually, TM was underpowered and needed to be beefed up now gives 4 Gold on the top of your deck.

So, you see, if you just do ordinary testing, you may not get much useful information. And if time and resources are limited - Donald X doesn't have hundreds of playtesters on his payroll - focused testing, including exclusion testing as described previously, are crucial.


I hope this helps.

24
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Make an attack that dishes out Debt
« on: July 20, 2016, 04:33:20 pm »
Unlike you I never argue from authority. I couldn't care less about what Donald or Stefan or some fan card designer says, if it is nonsense it is nonsense.

And here you're calling it nonsense. I really want to know why you hate exclusion testing so much. Did it blow up your Death Star? Steal your high school girlfriend? Or worse, it passed when you opened two clubs?

You presume only exclusion testing was done with Rebuild, Wharf and other cards. Surprisingly, just playing with the new cards - what you might call, ordinary playtesting - is the more common way of testing out new cards. Since that too did not reveal how powerful those cards are, ordinary playtesting is also nonsense. I guess we're just left with making stuff up.

25
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Make an attack that dishes out Debt
« on: July 20, 2016, 01:40:02 pm »
Man, it feels like you're going to disagree with me no matter what I say, even when I agree with you. If I said the sky is green, you'd say it was blue just to argue with me.

I really don't understand your opposition to exclusion testing. It's just a tool, much like a hammer or a plumbus. It's an especially apt tool for testing the whether dominion cards are overpowered or not. I use it on my own fan cards. No one is claiming it is the only tool to use or there are no other considerations. So I don't understand why you are working so hard to discredit it.

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