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Messages - Asper

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1
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Asper's Cards
« on: Today at 02:19:40 am »
No, it's really not about whether I do or not do want the card to trash Coppers. I just don't want players to think "Aha, this is mandatory", when they can circumvent that. Why even make the wording act as if it was mandatory when it isn't?

This is why I compared it to Butcher. If you trash a Copper with Butcher, you have to gain a card. If you have coin tokens from before, you can use them to gain a card costing more than $2 (or it might be that a $2-cost is fine). I don't see any difference, rules-wise, between this and Convert letting you get rid of the Copper by paying coins. Either you have coins enough to spend to turn the copper into a desirable card or you don't. With Buther, either you have coin tokens enough to spend to turn the copper into a desirable card or you don't. And the coins/coin tokens you use can't then be used for your buy.

Yes, this situation will be more common for Convert, but it's certainly not unusual for Butcher.

My point is that for Convert the question "can I transform the Copper intto card X" and "Can I buy card X" are equal (in the base case of having enough money and only one Convert, as I already stated). This is not the case for Butcher.

I am kind of surprised so many people disagree with me here, so I'll have to reconsider where we get to different conclusions. Admittedly I don't see it yet, but my experience tells me there's something I'm missing.

2
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Asper's Cards
« on: January 22, 2018, 06:24:13 pm »
I'm not sure what you mean by "card tricking"... you mean using it in a way other than what the designer (you) intended? I don't see any issue with the ability to turn a Copper into a when it also costs you your buy for the turn. If you made the gain "may", then you have a weird stupid decision to make between buying a and gaining nothing when you trash the Copper, or buying nothing and gaining a when you trash the Copper. Just force them to do the latter if they want the . Unless it turns out that the ability to trash Copper is too strong; (which it probably won't be if it can't trash Estates or Curses), then I don't the problem.

No, it's really not about whether I do or not do want the card to trash Coppers. I just don't want players to think "Aha, this is mandatory", when they can circumvent that. Why even make the wording act as if it was mandatory when it isn't? And it's not costing you your buy, it's actually netting you a buy, if you will. And then, if the Copper-replacing isn't actually mandatory (in the basic cases), I don't want to put a puzzle into the player's way to figure out how they can make that work. It's hard to put this in words, but I'd prefer if reading the card matched the way you can play it. I think the puzzle is much weirder than just allowing both ways to achieve the same thing. It's not like "do I play Copper or Silver first" is a stupid decision only because both options do the same thing. It's not a decision at all, because who cares, and at least that's how I feel about this. I feel this forces people to care about something just because I want them to care, when I could just let them do it their way. I mean, there's still a lot to think about and consider as soon as you don't want to spend all your money on the same card, which I feel is the more interesting case, either way. I wonder how often it'll just be either a nonterminal Copper trasher or a nonterminal Salvager that plays the card, though. Maybe the card has too many applications.

3
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Asper's Cards
« on: January 22, 2018, 04:15:10 pm »
I don't see any "card tricking" in the current version. Butcher does the exact same thing (just with coin tokens instead of coins).

I on the other hand don't see how it is any similar to Butcher... The thing was that the card said "if you trash, you must gain", but you can avoid having to gain a cheap card as a replacement for Copper by just using the money you would have normally spent buying a card on the Remodelling instead, which makes the mandatoryness obsolete. You can't trick Butcher this way, because if you have e.g. 3$ and then play Butcher, you can't remodel a Copper into a 5$. You can remodel it into a 2$ and have 3$ to spend, or buy the 5$ and keep the Copper (or replace it with another 0$). Convert DOES allow you to both get the 5$ and remove the Copper from your deck, as you can use the same amount you could have used to buy a card.

4
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Asper's Cards
« on: January 22, 2018, 12:19:07 pm »
Somebody outlined to me today that Copper trashing is still perfectly possible with this as long as you forego your buy (you instead upgrade the Copper into what you would have bought). It's not the same if you play several Transforms or have too little money to buy anything, but it still feels kind of like tricking the card again. So perhaps I'll go back to "you may". "Up to" still seems fine. I guess I could cost it at five if necessary. It could even give a coin you can only use to upgrade stuff in this case, but I'd rather be careful here.

5
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Asper's Cards
« on: January 21, 2018, 08:25:00 am »
I like Fragasnap's suggestion.

If I make it both mandatory and "up to" there is no "card tricking", and it should also shift the card a bit from being a nonterminal Copper trasher to being a Remodel variant, which was the original intention. Therefore:


6
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Asper's Cards
« on: January 21, 2018, 08:08:27 am »
Not being able to trash Estates is a hefty downside for sure, but it can trash Coppers much better than Salvager and is non-terminal. It can also trash itself like a super Death Cart or something, but if that's problematic it's easy to fix. It might be okay as is though, it doesn't seem like a great early buy any more - apart from the self-trashing.

Good point about the self-trashing. I think I will remove that.



Hm... Should I care about or exclude Durations? That'll be yet another nerf in case people are worried.

I kind of dislike the idea of removing the "you may", because to inexperienced players spending the 1$ of a Copper to "trick the card" might seem a bit unintuitive.

7
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Asper's Cards
« on: January 20, 2018, 02:20:12 pm »
Now you can play a card and remodel it on the same turn. You can play a Gold and use the coins from the Gold to remodel it into a province, with $1 left over, and it's non-terminal. Seems way too good compared to Salvager and Remodel.

It's good for Gold, and yes, I thought about the comparison to Remodel there. On the other hand, you can't trash Estates at all.

8
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Asper's Cards
« on: January 20, 2018, 01:18:52 pm »
I feel pretty dumb for not thinking of this version before... It now can't trash Estates anymore, but can instead use the money of cards it trashes. I have absolutely no idea whether it's still too strong. Probably it is...?


9
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Xerxes's cards
« on: January 19, 2018, 08:43:56 pm »
Stamp Collector feels like it's needs something else. The main ability is just a nerfed version of "+3 actions", which is extra weird because it already gives +1 action by itself. Maybe if that first +1 action were +? If it's too strong; it could replace the buy.
If it doesn't have the +1 Action, it struggles badly when you have it and a terminal draw in hand. On the other hand, maybe that's a good thing to tone down the power? I'm worried about it becoming too weak without the +action.

Coin instead of buy sounds okay though.

It's much easier to get than King's Court, but also doesn't stack as well at all. I don't remember running into trouble testing it, but if saying 'non-stamp collector' is worth the text, that's a possible change.

If the only other card in your hand is terminal draw (and you go with +Coin) it's a Copper, which is pretty bad. But not worse than e.g. Candlestick Maker's worst case is. Not sure it should exclude itself, but it seems to simplify things a lot.

10
Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Easy Puzzles
« on: January 19, 2018, 08:39:52 pm »
With 5 Champions in play, play Tribute with card, action, coin, buy tokens. Opponent reveals Harem and Estate inheriting Crown for +4 cards, +4 coins, +2 actions.
That's correct. Also don't forget that all four vanilla Adventures tokens are on Tribute.

You technically never discard any cards yourself this way  :P

11
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Xerxes's cards
« on: January 19, 2018, 02:27:00 pm »
Stamp Collector feels like it's needs something else. The main ability is just a nerfed version of "+3 actions", which is extra weird because it already gives +1 action by itself. Maybe if that first +1 action were +? If it's too strong; it could replace the buy.

It's not necessarily limited to 3 Actions even when played as the first card of your turn. That said, the card will always allow playing at least 1 Action card, and so I agree it doesn't need the base +1 Action. I also like the idea of changing the Buy to a Coin.

3 was a pretty arbitrary number I picked. I think it will be pretty rare that it's more than that though.

Also, I seem to remember seeing similar discussions before, but having you set aside cards in this way will get super messy pretty quickly when you use Stamp Collector to play a Stamp Collector. You'll have a pile of 3 set aside cards, and then another pile of 2 more set aside cards, and yet another pile of set aside cards... you have to remember which pile you are resolving when. I think it's one of the reasons that Golem can't play Golem.

It's not really worse than King's Court though, is it? At the very least what you see is what you get. No counting times of play.

Edit: I guess it's easier to get lots of and scales faster, though.

12
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Xerxes's cards
« on: January 19, 2018, 11:33:21 am »
Stamp Collector feels like it's needs something else. The main ability is just a nerfed version of "+3 actions", which is extra weird because it already gives +1 action by itself. Maybe if that first +1 action were +? If it's too strong; it could replace the buy.

It's not necessarily limited to 3 Actions even when played as the first card of your turn. That said, the card will always allow playing at least 1 Action card, and so I agree it doesn't need the base +1 Action. I also like the idea of changing the Buy to a Coin.

13
Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Easy Puzzles
« on: January 15, 2018, 09:32:52 pm »
I play the same Action card from my hand twice, without playing any other cards. How?
You have your +$1 and +Buy tokens on Fortress. You play a Fortress from your hand, then call 6 Royal Carriages on it, giving $7. You buy Bonfire, trashing the Fortress so it goes back to your hand, then Villa to return to your Action phase. You play the Fortress from your hand again.

My original solution used coin tokens instead of the +1$ token and Royal Carriage, but apart from that it's perfect.

14
Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Easy Puzzles
« on: January 15, 2018, 05:44:06 pm »
I play the same Action card from my hand twice, without playing any other cards. How?

15
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« on: January 15, 2018, 05:20:21 pm »
Huh, interesting. This sounds like a pretty big change of heart, but if he said it on Discord I'll take your word for it.

16
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« on: January 15, 2018, 11:56:09 am »
I guess you are right about Pirate Ship being too weak (especially in 2P games) to matter as much, but even Miser has not only advantages over Signalman - so I'm not sure it's too weak. For instance, if you can't line up Signalman with a Copper, it doesn't just whiff. Also, compared to Signalman, you suffer not 1$, but 2$ loss the turn you use Miser to build up money. Signalman can be useful in decks with other strong trashers, whereas Miser is redundant with those. Also, the tokens can still be used as a defense and it costs ever-so-slightly less.

About Gladiator, it isn't always worth 3$, and Fortune isn't something you get by Gladiator, so counting it as something seperate from those free Golds leads to the wrong impression.

I don't recall Donald saying that he'd put Embargo itself on the piles, but you might have newer information than me. Last time I checked, he said that putting Embargo itself on the piles (as done in the beginning) was confusing to people, and so he changed it when it was clear there could be tokens. Similar about Pirate Ship confusing people when Treasures on the mat were worth more than 1$. Maybe you can link to where you got that information? I do recall him saying he'd have preferred Adventures' -Card and -Coin tokens as States, but that's another bag. One thing they have in common with Nocturne'state for example is that they are given to players at some point and can be removed later.

Also, I don't agree to Embargo being a dud. Our games have shown me that you are a much better player than me, so maybe Embargo is weak from an experienced player's perspective. But it shapes a game, as you can't go for certain strategies without being punished (ergo it's not pointless), and I also believe it is relatively popular. My favourite Seaside card togegher with Haven, actually.

17
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« on: January 14, 2018, 11:06:27 pm »
Signalman seems too much better than Pirate Ship, to be honest. It starts at one token, gives +1$ even when you add one, has no risk of whiffing, can use its tokens for other benefits and costs less. The Treasure trashing on PS makes sure it isn't strictly worse, but I would argue that it actually is even another disadvantage most of the time.
 I also think that Outrider could technically work without a state, if it just used special tokens and said something similar to Embargo:

"Setup: Each player takes one Signal token. When another player plays an attack card, players may lose one Signal token to be unaffected by it."

I wouldn't say Signalman directly Powercreeps Pirate Ship since most of Pirate's Ship "strength" can come from it's attack like thief. For example in games with the only decent way to gain coin is Pirateship and Treasures where the other player(s) bought a chapel(heavy trashing) or in a bad kingdom where the only openings is silver/pirate ship or silver/silver. However I do agree, if you don't plan to benefit off the attack of Pirateship, Signalman is just better. Also I think Signalman could lose the set up token at the cost of 3. I assume your Outrider comment is for Signalman, I don't really see much of a reason for signalman to have it's own token, if Embargo couldn't really use a card since it would cover the card. And if it used a coin token it wouldn't work well with trade route. A state is much easier to add then another token.

Yes, I meant Signalman, not Outrider. I don't see how a State would be easier. You have tokens already, so the State just is additional material.

18
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« on: January 14, 2018, 06:56:08 pm »
Signalman seems too much better than Pirate Ship, to be honest. It starts at one token, gives +1$ even when you add one, has no risk of whiffing, can use its tokens for other benefits and costs less. The Treasure trashing on PS makes sure it isn't strictly worse, but I would argue that it actually is even another disadvantage most of the time.
 I also think that Outrider Signalman could technically work without a state, if it just used special tokens and said something similar to Embargo:

"Setup: Each player takes one Signal token. When another player plays an attack card, players may lose one Signal token to be unaffected by it."

19
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Asper's Cards
« on: January 13, 2018, 01:17:59 am »
Yeah, I think neither of these ideas was all that good. I also just realized that my first draft of Convert (not posted here, but perhaps you saw it in TTS), which discards cards and costs 5$, was already considered by Donald and is an outtake.

20
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Meld
« on: January 11, 2018, 09:23:56 am »
Majestic Chimera could be a cantrip as a baseline and/or also put Potions in your hand. Or even be a cantrip, reveal only two cards, and draw all Actions and Potions it reveals. A mix of Apothecary and Scrying Pool, so to speak.

21
Dominion General Discussion / Re: The Fool is a pity
« on: January 10, 2018, 10:33:58 pm »
I think Pixie and Blessed Village will end up being the most hated Fates cards, by "hardcore" players at least. Pixie is incredibly swingy, an early Flame or Earth can be game winning. Blessed Village just forces people to buy it because it's a village and then one player might just get a sizeable advantage over the other based how the Boons go.
But games with Pixie have Goat, either way.
I'm less of a fan of Blessed Village, but mostly because it has this timing thing going on. I guess that is meaningful to make sure nobody gets a useless Boon, though.

22
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Ice Age
« on: January 10, 2018, 06:08:05 pm »
Personally, I like the new new Hunter. Not only is it different to the cards I named (and Saunavanto, which I forgot), it also looks balanced. And I also like that, unlike a Cultist variant, it doesn't suck if the game card is terminal. I also find the "adds a regular 5$" atgument convincing.

23
Dominion General Discussion / Re: The Fool is a pity
« on: January 10, 2018, 05:59:27 pm »
Fool gets better and better once you get used to it. It's not a Rebuild that breaks the game, and it has its fans for a reason. And even players who don't like Fool itself can be happy it's around, because it gives us an Heirloom (my personal favourite, actually). Sure, the card's not perfect, but nobody can strike gold 100% of the time. I feel that the more people get used to the Boons, the less will it matter.

24
It is a larger consideration, but you don't buy Leprechaun until you can do that consistently. You start the game with Magic Lamp in your deck.
Do you not? $3 looks like a good price for a card that gives you early Golds in exchange for getting Hexed a bit. Leprechaun/Night Watchman, for example, looks like it would be a strong opening.

The problem is that you don't want to get Hexed and you don't really want too many Golds either, and Leprechaun itself is a terminal stop that doesn't give you any money.

But Gold is such good trash-for-benefit fodder.

This. Leprachaun is a really nice tfb enabler.

25
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Asper's Cards
« on: January 09, 2018, 12:17:15 pm »
Anyone got any idea whether it's legally reasonable to post your own boardgame design on a webforum like these or BGG? I have made a little thing and would both love to stirr up some interest and get feedback (and if people have fun on the way, that doesn't hurt, right?), but I don't want to run into "this isn't fully yours now" territory. Maybe that's irrational.

If it makes a difference, I am not yet sure whether I want to have the work to go the crowdfunding course, or run the danger to have my game significantly altered by a publisher.

In the United States, the idea and methods of a game are not copyrightable.  So if you put your stuff online, anyone could steal your ideas and publish them themselves.  They could also just as easily do that once you've published the game.  Things that are covered by copyright are specific expressions of the ideas in your game.  That could include artwork, the rulebook text, the exact wordings on the cards, etc.

This is how "Words with Friends" gets away with basically being Scrabble.  Note that "Words with Friends" did change the board from what is used in Scrabble, anticipating the possible argument that the layout of the Scrabble board could be considered part of the artwork.

See: https://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl108.pdf

Thanks a lot, this has been really helpful information  :)

So I was thinking about Convert a bit today, I think it maybe compares too well to Salvager with it being non-terminal? The effect of trashing a card and then spending money to upgrade it is very similar to getting +$ equal to it's cost and +1 buy. Maybe making the gain mandatory so it's worse at Copper trashing would make it enough worse? You can still spend $1 and fail to gain something costing exactly $1.
You are right, it is indeed very similar to Salvager. Thanks, I didn't think of that. Back to the drawing board...

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