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Messages - markusin

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Dominion General Discussion / Re: ThunderDominion Card List Results, 2019
« on: September 19, 2019, 04:33:05 pm »

If you mean that they are not monolithic like Rebuild is when it's good, sure. If you are trying to say that these cards are good without warping the game around them no, going for Tournament and its prizes is usually better than skipping them.

While I agree that Tournament (along with Remake and Hunting Party) is almost never ignorable, I think it's not obvious and very much depends on the kingdom as to how to "go for" Tournament without ending up with a deck full of Ruined Villages. It's easier to see how you can make Rebuild good.

Tournament however warps the game by affecting how good early provinces are. Ignoring its influence means your opponent doesn't get their peddlers turned to Ruined villages often enough, and them playing followers first makes tournament harder to block.

Hearthstone / Re: Semi-interesting Hearthstone moments
« on: September 19, 2019, 04:30:20 pm »
I actually misread what the final hero power does the first time, and lost two of my Ragnaros that way. I had made it to the bottom of my deck when I won, with the boss's last Plague of Murlocs still giving me a good board and then getting the occasional Old Murk Eye. I had the treasure that reduces the attack of all enemy minions by 1.

Funny thing, I had the treasure that gives all my minions death rattle: summon a legendary. At one point, I had both Kel'Thuzad and Catrina Muerte on board.

It really did come down to the wire. I'm feeling that it would be a pain to get through 7 bosses again to refight the plague lord.

Dominion General Discussion / Re: ThunderDominion Card List Results, 2019
« on: September 18, 2019, 10:07:47 am »

This list, to me, is a testament to how balanced this expansion is. Tournament and Remake are strong cards without turning the game to be about them and nothing else. Horse Traders is still a decent card with an unconditional reaction to attacks, Jester is an outright good card which I get very often.

If you mean that they are not monolithic like Rebuild is when it's good, sure. If you are trying to say that these cards are good without warping the game around them no, going for Tournament and its prizes is usually better than skipping them.

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Next expansion possible and when?
« on: September 18, 2019, 07:58:59 am »
Not everyone implements their own storage solution. I leave the cards in their boxes, and I know I'm not alone in that.

An obvious difficulty with "boosters" is how to package them so that they're easy to use. Base cards and the second edition upgrade packs work around that by expecting that you slot them into your existing base game / Intrigue boxes in place of old cards. I can't see them putting time and money into designing a box for a quarter-size expansion when they've already taken the decision to merge two of the three half-size expansions into a single full-size box!

I put in whatever I can into my hobby lobby box. It became heavy enough for the handle to break. Already I have a few expansions I left in their boxes, and any new expansions I get will be left in their boxes too.

It's just as well. You can simply carry a couple of expansion boxes with you when you go to teach people Dominion and then it might feel less intimidating for them.

Hearthstone / Re: Semi-interesting Hearthstone moments
« on: September 18, 2019, 07:55:59 am »
I managed to beat the first Plague Lord in the Uldum single player content on my first run. Khadgar/Jan'alai and a bunch of crazy treasures helped a lot.

I don't think that Captain is a $7. A simple heuristic is vanilla stuff (sure, there is other stuff like Captain being bad because it is a Duration and misses shuffles and being good because doing stuff at the start of your turn increases concistency). If you play around with it you can easily see that it is weaker than KC. For example Captain-Peddler has net effects of +1 Card, +1 Action, +2 Coins whereas KC-Peddler has net effects of +1 Card, +2 Actions, +3 Coins.

I mean. Sure. But you can't make Captain hit Peddler the second time, and the first is capital-T tricky because you'd need to hit it with a bunch of cost reduction first. Also can you talk through those numbers? I'm not seeing how you're getting them.
Yeah, I meant Poacher, the modern Peddler.

Captainer-Poacher is +1 Coin this turn and next turn it is what Poacher says: +1 Card, +1 Action, +1 Coin
The gross effect of KC-Poacher is triple everything. But you played two cards so you net draw only 1, you had to play an Action to play KC so you only net 2 Actions and you get all the 3 Coins.

Viewing at the net effects of the vanilla stuff never gets the entire picture as it ignores all the important subtleties. But it is a good way to start (in case it is still not clear, when you play a card you gotta do -1 Card and -1 Action to get to the net effects; a cantrip is thus neutral).
This is not sound logic. In order to play KC-Poacher, you need to already have a Poacher, and connect the two. The cost of that is $11 and 2 buys and the cost of connecting.
I don't think you would skip Poacher in either situation, with Captain or KC in the Kingdom. So it is a sunk cost, a decision you made early in the game to improve your economy no matter what.
Anyway, I am totally aware that this vanilla thing is imprecise but it nonetheless illustrates that Captain is likely weaker than KC (impossible to compare Captain with Forge or Expand) and thus priced correctly.
Being weaker than KC doesn't mean that it needs to cost less than it...
Also, you keep ignoring captain's biggest strength over kc, that it doesn't need to collide with anything.

And we can't ignore KC's biggest strength: it's bonkers when it collides with itself and pretty much anything. The value of additional Captains to your deck is additive.

It's at least "good" in most circumstances, but it's still a duration and hence the effect of spiking it early can be mitigated by it missing the shuffle more often than non-durations.


What am I missing? Isn't Defiled Shrine with 7VP on it a $0 Province?

You're missing the fact that you would much rather buy an engine component than a $0 Province in the early game.

More so if you don't have +buy.

So is Captain more or less simply Band of Misfits that works both now and next turn, for a cost of instead of ? That sounds way way better than BoM.

on the surface, yes!

although there is different wording to watch out for between Band of Misfits / Overlord / Captain (which appear to be mostly stronger for the Captain... for example Overlord pretending to be sir martin will result in a trashed overlord if it hits another knight... but captain I believe will stay in your deck)

Ah, but only BoM has the ability to gain you Treasure Map Gold. That is one second-rate captain.

This article sold me on BM:

Interestingly, Stef said there that a trasher from the BM deck is a "bomb" (an "exceptionally strong card") - which matches my experience, of course if a strong trasher is missing from the kingdom. But Donald said they tend to suck, based on the data I assume. Is Stef wrong or the data?

Many of the "tempo" trashers seem to do well off the BM. This includes Butcher, Junk Dealer, Sentry, Masquerade, Counterfeit, and Recruiter, among others. The trashers that don't do so well include Forager, Remake, Sacrifice, Spice Merchant, Raze. It's an odd pattern.

Defiled Shrine

Possession: I've seen enough degenerate stuff with this card to not be thrilled about seeing it anytime soon, and this includes both players "debt locking" themselves. For every good Possession game, there are at least two others that will feel dumb.

Urchin: the disparity that can arise despite both players opening the same way is absurd, and I am never happy about being called a "lucker" for luck being on my side with it.

Peddler: player A gets 3 peddlers, then player B gets 3 peddlers, then player A gets another 4 peddlers and wins the split 7-3. This is the most likely sort of outcome in any game where Peddler actually matters. Bonus points if Remodel or similar is on the board.

Lurker: the cool pileouts are not worth the standoff where neither player plays their lone Lurker. Honestly though, this card is a headache for me to use properly.

Swindler: Having your opening $5 turned into a Duchy (or Goat to Estate) feels like too much of a handicap in many cases. Where are my Goko zaps? Bonus points if the $5 swindled on the second shuffle was the Treasury you opened with (true story).

Defiled Shrine: it goes from bad buy to great within the span of a turn start to buy phase and one player gets first dibs at that tipping point, but also the setup is messy.

Tax: A messier setup than Defiled Shrine and messes with openings in an annoying, non-symmetric way.

Keep: Counting Coppers? I'll leave that to the misers and those guys who settled at the house of counting. Having to win the Contraband split is funny for only so long.

Scrying Pool
Ghost Ship

Regarding the vertical cards here, they either have too much snowball potential that is not very well offset by the games where they are interesting, or they involve too much clicking (and some have both, you know who you are). Ambassador gets a pass because often times both players can get thin, and there there is an interesting balancing act to play.

Donate, it's too much of a headache sometimes, and it can heavily favour first player. Save, it's too automatic a decision to get It, and then you often have to avoid hitting "play all treasures" and it's a bit annoying to worry about that every turn. Fleet, uh, I'm not comfortable with it yet and it's kind of a downer card, either creating imbalances or just making things way too mathy. I'll probably fill this with something else in the future.

Border Village

Stonemason: Actions galore, "true" splitter, out of nowhere pileouts. Nice!

Castles: it's funky alt-VP, without making things too sloggy.

Pixie: This card leads to lots of interesting decisions, and risk/reward assessments, with Goat making life easier all around.

Procession: I like fireworks. Procession delivers.

Border Village Lots of actions. Yay! Not too swingy, as it mainly shows its strength when multiples are gained.

Innovation: It feels so good to meld the first card I gain in my turn and get a free activation of its dogma effect.

Ball: Perfectly ballanced, as all things should be.

Orchard: Orchard encourages fulfilling the Dominion dream - getting lots of stuff, and gettings lots of that stuff. Any hall of oddities carny can get a single copy of some throwaway card on the last few turns of a game, but Orchard involves more finesse. You need to commit to those Mines and Trading Posts if you want Orchard points off them.

Thank you for reading.

Hearthstone / Re: Tracking could easily be a Dominion card
« on: July 26, 2019, 11:38:09 am »

I would guess something about trashing: We have Cathedral, Temple, Chapel, and Monastery already...

Also, is this the first card with the name of an actual place? I know Sauna/Avanto was created for Finland, but it's not a single place.

I have a feeling this card will have absolutely nothing to do with trashing.

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Really bad card ideas
« on: May 14, 2019, 06:45:23 pm »
Skilled Chancellor
$3 - Action

Name a card. Shuffle your discard pile into your deck, then reveal the top card of your deck.
If the revealed card is a copy of the named card, put it into your hand, +$2, +1 Action, +1 Buy.
Otherwise, shuffle it back into your deck.

Hearthstone / Re: Constructed General Discussion
« on: April 26, 2019, 11:41:20 pm »
Been playing an insane amount with the new set/rotation. Haven't gotten tired of it yet. Just got my shaman to 1000 wins. I have several at 900+ and all at least 700+.

The new set/format seemed decent, but I haven't been playing too much of it so far. What sucks is playing big/muckmorpher shaman and having to deal with Elysiana without being able to use your own and not make your deck function worse. I happened to open Khadgar, so hand mage is wide open. I also opened the new Dr. Boom, but I kinda wish I opened the other Warrior legendary.

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Really bad card ideas
« on: March 27, 2019, 10:21:44 am »
Philosopher's Jenga
Cost: $3P

Put your deck into your discard pile, then use to the cards in your discard pile to build a card house. +$2 for each storey that this house has right before it topples. Return the cards to your discard pile afterwards.

General Discussion / Re: Random Stuff Part IV
« on: March 13, 2019, 10:17:26 am »
I also think "virtue signaling" is a rather nebulous term because its existence is heavily tied to the use of social media. Like, it's perfectly reasonable to be against racism or accepting of gay marriage, but it's not something you bring up immediately upon starting a conversation. In person, you'll generally want to discuss socio-political views as the topic comes up. But on social media, the social media user often has to "fill the void of silence" themselves, and so they'll want to say things that paint them in a good light. I mean, what else are you going to say if you feel compelled to say something? "80% of human behaviour" sounds about right.

Now, "virtue signaling" as a term probably came up from the other social media users that don't care what people's opinion about stuff is but have to see it in their news feed anyway. Kind of like a collective eye-roll. But I guess it gets more messy when people are banned "for their beliefs" from whatever website.

General Discussion / Re: Random Stuff Part IV
« on: March 06, 2019, 01:45:44 am »
I've always read it the way Awaclus originally said; that something that is deceptively easy is easier than it looks. I would say that a game with complicated decision making, yet simple rules, is deceptively complicated.

Well see, you have the Hearthstone tagline: "Deceptively simple. Insanely fun". The implication here is that Hearthstone is easy to pick up, but has layers of complexity as you dig deeper into it. This is in line with what ConMan was saying and Awaclus's response to it.

Thing is, this does not mean that people won't use the term "deceptively simple" to mean it is easier than it looks. Looking into it, this is one of those terms that people can't agree on, and so the recommendation is to avoid using the expression of context does not make the meaning clear. My first reaction is to think it means "it deceives you into thinking it's simple when the reality is more nuanced".

I don't think it's as bad as "bi-monthly" because at least the "deceptively" expressions lend themselves more to contextual clues. Like, if you find a cook book called "deceptively delicious", it would seem odd to me if it talked about how to make food that looks unappetizing but is actually tasty. It turns out there is a book called "Deceptively Delicious", and it talks about using healthy foods as ingredients for appetizing dishes like speghetti and meatballs. So "deceptively delicious" as used here doesn't seem like it means "less delicious than it appears" or "more delicious than it appears". It's instead the "I can't believe it's not butter" thing where something is tasty despite being made unconventionally. Again, that's in line with ConMan's interpretation.

General Discussion / Re: Random Stuff Part IV
« on: March 05, 2019, 06:10:08 pm »
Has anybody here talked about what "deceptively" in phrases like "deceptively easy" or "deceptively delicious" are supposed to mean? Is a thing that is "deceptively easy" something that is easier than it looks or harder than it looks? I think it's been used to describe both, and sometimes context isn't enough to distinguish.

Puzzles and Challenges / Re: get a province... ON TURN 3
« on: March 02, 2019, 10:40:02 pm »
I was specifically trying to contradict the hint that you needed to buy cards to do it.

I guess you're also trying to minimise shuffle luck, there? Otherwise, just draw Cursed Gold and 4*Copper then spend your starting Coffers. (-8

Whoops, somehow missed the obvious move there...

That still implies you bought Province as a card.

How about: 5 Copper + Baker token + Borrow T1 -> buy Travelling Fair, buy Ball for Remodel and Skulk, topdecking the Gold and Remodel. T2 -> Remodel Gold into Province.

Envy and Delusion are pretty ineffective when received from buying Cursed Village.

Wait, how's that? In that case, don't they just affect your next turn?

Oops, forgot how those worked.

TIL Will-o'Wisp is better than Lab.

It only increases handsize if the second card is cheap. Why is it better?

I suspect Awaclus means: "Trashing a card is like gaining a lab" so The Flame's Gift is like gaining a lab, whereas The Swamp's Gift is gaining a Wisp. To have Swamp higher than Flame is like saying Wisp is better than Lab.

This might be an excellent opportunity for Awaclus and others to reflect on all the ways in which trashing a card is not equivalent to gaining a Laboratory.

There's more than that. Even if trashing a card is 100% like gaining a lab, The Flame's Gift can miss if you don't have a card to trash when you get it.

But indeed there are other differences. Trashing an Estate is like gaining a lab but also losing a token. Trashing a Copper is like gaining a lab but also taking your - token. So both are slightly worse than gaining a lab.

On the other hand, trashing a Copper/Estate also has an advantage over gaining a lab. Say you have trashed 3 Coppers and 3 Estates and bought 1 Mountebank this game. Your next hand WILL contain the Mountebank. Say you have bought 1 Mountebank and 6 labs this game. Your next hand could still be dead.

Even so, I think his overall point is correct... trashing a card from your hand should, as a whole, be stronger than gaining a Will-o'-Wisp.

I think that, in practice, it's the interactions with Wisp being an action card that make all the difference (Imp/Conclave/Thrones/Landmarks/etc.) Compared to trashing with Flame's Gift. Though, I'm sure the stats between these cards are not far off.

I'm not surprised that Wind's Gift shows up favourably in the stats. It's great on Blessed Village and helps you line up Idols. In general, I expect that it's ability to save turns outweighs its dead draws on average, and maybe the same is true for Sea's Gift. Those cases where you are drawing your deck and have to discard two cards to Wind's Gift seem like "first world problems".

Just one word of caution with the stats ranking is that some hexes are close and the differences not statistically significant.

If you want to have one number: receiving Misery makes you go from 50% to 44% win chance. (95% confidence interval about [42%,46%]. Bad Omens for comparison would be [45%,49%].)

Hey, donít soft-pedal the numbers. We want to get people riled up here.

Really, how powerful a hex is depends on the type of game being played that includes them. Some boards make Misery devastating, while others make Envy a completely turn destroyer. Envy and Delusion are pretty ineffective when received from buying Cursed Village. Envy gives me nightmares, whereas Delusion rarely seems to hit at a point where buying a treasure/green card instead of an action is super devastating.

I am still scared of Cathedral. I feel there are certain games where it is a must-open, but certain games where it is ignorable -- games with other reliable trashing, games that go on for a long time, games with hand-size-reduction attacks. Whereas the other top-tier Projects leave your deck in a strictly better state than they would without the Project.

That's mainly why I have Star Chart above Cathedral.

General Discussion / Re: Random Stuff Part IV
« on: February 23, 2019, 09:04:49 pm »
Once again I got sucked into another pointless Facebook vortex. I had to caption this.

Can you blame them?

W + W + W = 30
W + X + X = 20
X + X + Y = 18

What is V + X * Y?

What, you didn't realise that V was W/2? Expected parentheses that could trivially be added to remove all unneeded ambiguity rather than remember BEDMAS? That's exactly what the 90% of people who fail would say.

I have plotted weighted against unweighted ratings.


Rebuild elitism: Now with data!

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