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Messages - markusin

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the thing about Vassal is that it's in Base. I tried to give examples using Base, or at least earlier expansions, where possible.

Hence my hoping for a good illustration of Lose Track using Vassal instead of cards from Hinterlands, Dark Ages and promos.

I don't know if such an example exists. The Vassal discards the top card before letting you decide if you can play it. What can trigger in between discarding the top card of your deck and playing the discarded card if it's an action (which rules out Tunnel)?

Also, Merchant is worded in such a way as to suggest that treasure cards are in fact played.

I didn't realize it had become so popular to hate on Prosperity.  I remember when that was everyone's favorite expansion.  I mean sure, it has Trade Route and Counting House and a few dud Treasures.  But it also has some of the strongest cards in the game - King's Court, Grand Market, Goons, Mountebank.  Rabble is a solid draw card, Cities can get insane, Worker's Village is a solid village, Watchtower is quite good.  And getting free Peddlers is awesome!  You can make a golden deck with Bishop, and Monument is pretty nice if you can get it rolling early.

A lot of the most fun cards in Prosperity don't have anything Prosperity-specific about them, which makes people sort of forget that they were from Prosperity especially because the set has been around for so long. When Empires came out, it made a lot of the Prosperity-specific things not as Prosperity-specific anymore, as well as dull in comparison. The only thing that really sets Prosperity apart from the other expansions at this point is the Treasures, and a lot of them were duds.

Also Trade Route is a pretty strong and unique card.

Even Colony/Platinum is not exclusive to Prosperity now that Base Cards can be bought separately.

Prosperity has a lot of stand out power cards and duds, but I guess it also has some unsung heroes like Worker's Village, Watchtower, Forge, and like all the Treasures in its set that cost less than 5 coins. Still, it feels a bit dry to me when I think about it.

Also, saying Trade Route is subpar is like the Awaclus version of "Hey Kool-Aid".

General Discussion / Re: 2018 FIFA World Cup
« on: July 16, 2018, 03:05:39 pm »
Aww, I was so ready to post a link to that French song they made to poke fun at France losing to Italy in 2006 and the Zidane headbutt.

Enlighten us nonetheless.

With pleasure:

General Discussion / Re: 2018 FIFA World Cup
« on: July 15, 2018, 12:57:30 pm »
Aww, I was so ready to post a link to that French song they made to poke fun at France losing to Italy in 2006 and the Zidane headbutt.

I have literally no idea what you mean by "technically" here.
"Literally" is in-and-of-itself another abomination of modern English.

People's resistance to literally used as an intensifier is one of the tics of language prescriptivists that most bothers me. I get especially irritated when people try to correct it by saying "you mean figuratively." No, I don't; figuratively is not used as an intensifier. Furthermore, "literally" has been used in this way for ages (the OED's entries start in 1769) and this is now the most common use of the word.

Usually when I use "literally" for purposes outside having an intensifier, it is to describe an outlandish event described in literature that actually took place as described. So like, "She literally crushes the villain at the end (with a hydraulic press)" or "He literally punched out the Devil, leaving a visible bump on the Devil's forehead".

It's nuts to think that all Spikes want the same things, and it's nuts to think that you have go all out for Spike or Spike won't be happy.

I don't agree with this. The players I'm talking about -- let's call them "Sirlins," since you think "Spikes" is too broad -- do want mostly the same things and share a certain broad game design philosophy. For instance, when I read Awaclus posts I understand immediately the place he is coming from (though I also enjoy my casual multiplayer games, thank you very much). I've met several people in real life with basically the same gaming philosophy.

(As an aside, I would be very interested in a description of the psychology of "Spikes" who are not "Sirlins." Perhaps I would better understand the distinction you're drawing.)

It is my impression that such people are generally very detail-oriented and find any deviation from certain Platonic competitive ideals off-putting, and have played enough games that they're quick to find and call out such deviations. (The lack of a turn timer in Dominion Online is possibly one example; it's often thought that competitive chess is a better game in virtue having a time limit, and the ability to select different time limits from "blitz" to G90 or beyond. I don't want to necessarily defend this idea, but I do want to point out that a "competitive" person of the kind I'm thinking of will find the idea of unlimited turn time a little weird.)

I think what separates people here is how much they are willing to play a game despite some mechanics they found undesirable. So as you describe, Sirlins are likely to quickly recognize mechanics that are at odds with the notion of competitive play. However, they may have very different ideas on what is a "deal breaker" and how long it takes to get burned out on a certain game. So, the extend that competitive players are willing to put up with first player imbalances can vary (aside: these days I pay a lot more attention to how games do or don't address first player advantage). And people still have preferences on where they like to focus their strategic efforts e.g. risk/reward vs. thinking ahead, even though this category of players recognizes all these possible sources of strategy.

Like, for all the issues Awaclus brought up, he has nevertheless played over 1000 games of Dominion Online according to the Dominion Scavenger leaderboard, though I don't know how many games of Prismata he has played.

It's normally simpler to not make something optional.
The way my mind works, if there's a set of things (e.g. Boons) it is indeed simplest not to make them optional, but simpler to make all of them optional always than to make different ones optional under a variety of circumstances circumstances.

Am I weird?

You know, if you've drawn your deck, then getting Wind's Gift makes things slower when it's mandatory because now you have to decide what cards to discard instead of just skipping the effect :P .

But yeah it's pretty rough on Idol, especially because you typically get a bunch and you kinda have to play them to not have a dud turn.

Thatís the game of Dominion as it was designed. You may prefer to play a variant where deck tracking is allowed, but that is a variant.

Well, if I'm complaining about the game having an undesirable quality, I don't think it's a very good counterargument to say that it's supposed to have that undesirable quality. As far as I'm concerned, the memory game element isn't necessarily difficult, it just requires multitasking which makes the game needlessly more stressful. For quite a while now, my focus in regards to trying to improve at Dominion (as well as the focus of a couple of articles that I wrote) hasn't been on trying to figure out how to make better decisions, it has been on trying to figure out how to make it easier and less taxing for my brain to make pretty decent decisions. Trying to improve like that has been fun, but the practical reality of still having a headache every time I play a 6-game match in one go hasn't been quite as fun.

I hope you come back.

okay bye

Oh, no, I didn't say I'm quitting f.ds (or the Discord for that matter). I haven't really been playing the game for the past three months anyway, didn't stop me from posting.

Oh man, 6-game matches are absolutely exhausting. Expect at least 2 hours of play and each game having long turns due to thinking because of the stakes. And then you have to find time for that once a week. League is a big stress in my eyes.

The bigger concern for me with the client quality is the relatively stagnant progress it has been making towards improvement. It maybe can't be helped give the current state of ShuffleIT. One thing I have to give credit for to Prismata, they seem to have put a lot of effort into getting their timer system right.

These kind of posts are more terrible than any other thing happening on this forum.

I genuinely donít know which post youíre referring to...
Seprix' starting post.

Reading the thread with the perspective that the OP was meant as a joke; I feel stupid now. I thought that the second 2 replies were both yelling at Wero for being disrespectful to Seprix by arguing against his article.

I mean, at first I though "tl:dr. Oh hey Wero makes a good argument here."

Ultimately, your leisure time is valuable, and you should spend it in a way you find enjoyable. Sometimes it's necessary to set one activity aside towards making the most of your time.

I myself typically only play 2 or 3 games at a time. I think I only played one game of Dominion over the last couple of months, and that was literally to not disappear from the Scavenger boards. I have also been less active on Discord as well. I do check the forums and Discord almost daily though.

The nice thing about board games like Dominion is that you can quit and still be proficient if you return months or even years later. The same can't be said for action multiplayer games that require constant play to maintain dexterity.

Hearthstone / Re: Tavern Brawl Discussion
« on: July 05, 2018, 08:04:45 am »
This week's brawl has you spend your hero's health instead of mana for spells. My plan to win was to look for Shadowblade and Pickpocket (echo burgle spell), using Biteweed in the meantime (I still don't own Edwin). Once you play Shadowblade, your hero is immune for the rest of the turn, and then you can keep playing Pickpocket until the cards you get let you win.

I think Caravan Guard is what one would call a "delayed Peddler".

Rules Questions / Re: summon + death cart vs. summon + nomad camp
« on: June 29, 2018, 12:47:17 pm »
This is probably a silly question, but if you gain Nomad Camp with Summon, then reveal Watchtower to try topdecking the Nomad Camp, does Summon still succeed in setting it aside?

To expand on this, you *can* build a Golden Deck without handsize increase, but Golden decks still like draw. IIRC all golden decks require a certain number of stop cards to work (Bishop and Bishop fodder, Islands and VP to store, Goons and an unplayed Watchtower, Ritual fodder and Curses/curse trashers, etc.). Mind you, in most cases you can limit the number of stop cards to 4, but with +draw you can and most likely should run Golden decks with 5+ stop cards.

But if you're adding more and more draw and more and more payload to your "golden deck" every turn, then you're playing a strategy that has everything in common with engines and doesn't have very many things in common with golden decks.

I would call a golden deck anything that is guaranteed to draw all its cards every turn and has a minimum, or worst case, output that still pushes you towards a victory condition if you get that minimum output every turn.

For example, adding cantrips to a golden deck generally doesn't stop it from being a golden deck, as was the case for the King's Court x2 + Goons + Masquerade combo of old before the Masquerade text change. Maybe those cantrips did something like produce coins or VP tokens (in the case of Chariot Race), but they would never prevent you from doing the KC/KC/Goons/Masquerade combo on your turn.

Now, having exactly 5 stop cards still guarantees you always see those 5 stop cards every turn, but I wouldn't call your entire deck "golden" if it doesn't see all its throwaway cantrips and whatnot, purely out of aesthetic principle.

You can generalize to a "golden subdeck" where a certain subset of cards is guaranteed to be played every turn and which on its own pushes you towards victory. Simple example would be like having princes Monuments whose +$2 would eventually let you empty the supply. In this example, the Monuments and Princes would be part of your golden subdeck. Also, that deck with only 5 stop cards will always see those 5 stop cards. Those 5 stop cards, but only those 5 stop cards, make up the golden subdeck.

Adding more draw to support more stop cards will make your deck no longer golden if there is a non-zero chance you don't draw everything, and having 6+ stop cards means that if you start the turn with 5 stop cards, there is no guaranteed combination of stop cards that will be present in that 5 card dud hand because any one of the stop cards can be absent (edit: ignoring multiple copies of the same card).

I find one of guardian's most clutch abilities is being able to open with a $5 card whenever you open 3/4.
I'd be really sad if my opponent opened 2/5 on a board with Guardian and something like Border Village or Goons...

Altar or Artisan might be even scarier as openings.

Rules Questions / Re: summon + death cart vs. summon + nomad camp
« on: June 26, 2018, 10:57:16 am »
If I understand it right, the difference between Death Cart and Nomad Camp in this particular case isn't that Nomad Camp has a different gain destination, but that Death Cart has cards that come with it that cover it up. It's the Ruins that are causing you to lose track; I don't see why Nomad Camp would potentially have a similar issue.

It wouldn't fail for the same reason, but this makes me think about how there seems to be an implicit assumption that Summon looks for the gained card at the card's default gain location (whether that default location is the discard, top of deck, or the hand if there were any night-action cards that were gained to hand). Is Summon meant to work with Nomad Camp?

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Fix the worst cards
« on: June 25, 2018, 03:01:55 pm »
Well, playing more doesn't necessarily mean you are a top player or are improving.

I do think that it at least necessarily means the latter, but definitely the more you do the things you're already comfortable with, the less you improve.

I guess you can be more precise and say that simply playing more has varying impact on how fast one improves.

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Fix the worst cards
« on: June 19, 2018, 03:02:59 pm »
the rewards are not super impressive [...] but neither is the amount of effort that it takes ó just play like 20 games every day and you'll become a top player within a year.
Uh... at 10 minutes a game, that's 200 minutes a day, three hours, 20% of your waking life, half your leisure time.

So no.

Dude, what? Three hours a day for a year is nothing. For most hobbies, if you do it for three hours a day for a year, you'll still suck at it compared to the average person doing it (who ever gets anywhere).

I'd be very surprised if the average player finishes more than 20 Dominion games a week.

Hence why they're not a top player .. they're likely average

Well, playing more doesn't necessarily mean you are a top player or are improving.

Hearthstone / Re: Has anyone learned Hearthstone yet?
« on: June 16, 2018, 07:50:10 pm »
I finally got all of my heroes to Level 60. For the longest time I didn't play much Warrior, but I've been playing Quest Warrior recently.

Dominion Articles / Re: Contraband
« on: June 15, 2018, 10:47:46 am »
Yeah the thing with Contraband is that you want it to help you build, and so your building with the Contraband has to be better than it would be without the Contraband, taking into account Contraband being basically a dead card when you want to green. As others have been saying, the +buy is the main reason Contraband might give you a deck building edge over something like Silver.

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Mountain Pass
« on: June 15, 2018, 08:53:40 am »
I always bid a non-integer, non-fraction number.  People think I'm irrational when I do it.

I bid a non-real number.  People say that's way too complex for them.

I bid a negative number. People think I'm being unnatural.
I bid a quternion. People think I'm being non-commutative.
I bid a potion cost. People say I'm partially ordered.

Itís a little like Tournament - you buy a Province a little too early so your opponent is forced to bid before theyíve built up enough economy to pay off a good bid. If you put them in a position where they would have to take more than 2 turns to pay off a bid 14 or lower, get the Province right away and you can either overwhelm them with two extra turns of building, or get a substantial point lead early on thatís hard to come back from.

In a pre Rebuild or Governor game, usually bid 40.

In games where you don't bid 40, Mountain pass favours the player with more coin output who is able to bid more for the same amount of time to pay off the debt. Also, consider bidding just enough so that you can still buy a useful 0-cost or 1-cost event on the turn you expect to pay off the debt.

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Question- which one tilts you?
« on: June 14, 2018, 07:53:05 pm »
You know what, in Dominion and in many other competitive games (e.g. Hearthstone), I get more tilted by an opponent's good luck than my own bad luck.

If you think about your victory depending on your raw progress towards a victory condition minus your opponent's opposition of your progress, then an opponent having good luck appears as a more obvious, bigger "Minus" sign than your own bad luck giving you a smaller "Plus" sign. So for example, an opponent hitting me with Possession to steal a good hand of mine stings more than me stealing my opponent's poor hand with Possession.

I dunno, I can shrug off my own bad luck as "eh, it happens, but maybe next game I can get more done." However nothing makes me more likely to utter "are you serious!?" or some profanity under my breath than a opponent having multiple good turns in a row (edit: but like, if that string of good turns was a very unlikely event and not just the roughly expected outcome because of deck composition).

For tracking actions, the best thing is to just build a tree... if a card gives +1 action, play the next action directly below it. If a card gives +2 actions, play the next action under it to one side:

      /          \
  Smithy      Market
                 /          \
             Village     Market
           /          \         |

You can quickly look at the cards you have on the table and see that you can still play 2 more actions.

Trees take up way, way more space than the linear method I listed above, for not really any benefit. Itís also easier to see how much you have left.

I do the linear thing as well, except I don't bother to play the cantrips on the side and just stick the next to the Villages in the village row according to the order I played them.

Feedback / Re: The forum isn't protected by HTTPS
« on: June 05, 2018, 03:37:43 pm »
I mean... is anything we do here really that important? Weíre playing a card game. Who cares about the extremely unlikely event that someone steals somebodyís log in in order to... impersonate them here? Which would be really quickly obvious and dealt with?

Plenty of other reasons to use https (mainly for people not smart enough to use multiple passwords for things) but I mean I wouldnít say itís particularly urgent.

Although password reuse is frowned upon; I'm pretty sure a lot of people still do it. Meaning that if someone's F.DS password is stolen, then that could cause lots of other issues for a person as well.

I think the modern recommendation is to use a password manager tool.

Dominion FAQ / Re: Counterfeit Clarification
« on: June 05, 2018, 12:14:22 pm »
For number 3, you generally do narrorate things as you do them, such as ďI play Village, draw a card. Silver, Silver, Cooper, buy a Witch. Your turn.Ē

But the difference between Pawn and Counterfiet is that with Pawn, stating your choices out loud is the only way to let your opponent know what you have chosen. With Counterfiet, your choice becomes known because you actually play something else.

In other words, you donít need to say ďI play Counterfiet, choosing Gold.Ē Instead, you would put Counterfiet on the table, then put Gold on the table, announcing each card as it goes on the table. So yes, you do announce things; all I meant was that you actually play the Gold, you donít simply name Gold.

Announcing it might still be right.  What if I play Counterfeit, then choose to not counterfeit anything, then continue playing treasures. (Lord Rattington taught me that awesome strategy) In that case it seems like you'd need to announce that you aren't choosing anything, or you'd need to announce the cases when you do choose a treasure to play twice.

Yeah especially when it comes to playing or not playing Spoils with Counterfeit. You can't say "oh he trashed the Spoils so obviously he played it with Counterfeit" because the Spoils doesn't get trashed either way. Maybe this matters for Storyteller + Villa or Black Market, who knows.

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