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Messages - yudantaiteki

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1
Rules Questions / Re: Counterfeit + spoils
« on: September 30, 2013, 05:30:24 pm »
It has always been confusing to me that Counterfit is able to execute the "play it" part despite the card being back in the supply, but cannot execute the "trash it" part.  I know how you're supposed to play the card, I've just never quite understood the underlying rules here.  Same thing with Throne Room and trashing cards.

I know that trashing a card does not remove your ability to follow the rest of the text on the card (or Feast would do nothing).  But there was a very long discussion on BGG where Donald (first?) brought up the lose track rule where someone was trying to define what "play" a card means, in light of situations like Counterfeit-Spoils or Throne Room-Feast/Mining Village.

2
Goko Dominion Online / Re: I quit for the first time today...
« on: June 11, 2013, 11:07:33 am »
I don't know if that's really kingmaking, though.  My personal idea of kingmaking is doing things in a 3+ player game that help another player win and do not improve your own chances of winning.  If helping player B instead of player C means you may get 2nd instead of 3rd place, that's not kingmaking (IMO).  If following a strategy helps player B and hurts C, but improves your chances of winning, that's not kingmaking either.  Kingmaking only occurs when you are doing things with the primary objective of making a player other than yourself win.

For instance, I had a Settlers of Catan game I remember from a long time ago where I had a medium/long shot play to win the game through drawing the random cards, but I had to make an unfavorable trade with another player that was almost certainly going to result in them winning the game on their next turn.  I considered this a legitimate play because it was my only reasonable chance of winning the game -- even though I was essentially handing the game to another player if my long shot didn't work out.  But others might see this as kingmaking.

3
Goko Dominion Online / Re: I quit for the first time today...
« on: June 11, 2013, 09:10:46 am »
Getting two turns of Governors must be better for you than one turn, right? Also, I see nothing wrong in trying to get in second place instead of third. I've done this myself. It's part of three- or four player games. Getting as high as possible.

That wasn't the issue here -- P1 had P2 possess ashersky.  The only way I can see this being OK is if P1 thought that ashersky had the game locked up and P2 was way behind.  The hope would be that P2 can mess up ashersky enough to let P1 come into the lead, without actually having P2 win himself.  If that was the idea, I don't consider that kingmaking.

4
Rules Questions / Re: End of game rules
« on: June 09, 2013, 05:38:00 pm »
Thanks.  I read on BGG that instead of just putting a curse directly into the opponent's discard pile, you have to wait until it comes to your hand and then you can use an action to give it to the opponent.  That seems a little more balanced.

5
Goko Dominion Online / Re: "Warfreak2 chooses a reaction to reveal"
« on: June 07, 2013, 04:10:56 pm »
Isotropic had this same problem ("Waiting for X to reveal a reaction...") 

I think this may be a necessary evil so that you know the game isn't waiting on you, but on your opponent to do something.  Otherwise you play a card and the game just sits there; you know it's either frozen or your opponent has a reaction card.

6
General Discussion / Re: roguelike games
« on: June 05, 2013, 08:46:32 am »
I used to play huge amounts of Angband, and I was even on the development team for ZAngband for a while.  I won Angband twice, but I haven't played it in many years.

7
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Disappointment
« on: June 02, 2013, 06:54:19 pm »
There is much less activity than there used to be

The forum stats disagree with you.  This May was slow, but April and March were more than solid.


Are you including the forum game posts in that number?

8
General Discussion / Re: Americans and draws
« on: May 31, 2013, 01:30:18 pm »
And even when there is action (for seconds at a time), most of it is pretty comparable to just dribbling around in football - people just trying to push a couple more feet up the field etc

Right, and that's what I meant in my previous post -- I'm well aware that a lot of people who don't understand football watch it and just see a bunch of people running into each other.  But that's like me watching soccer -- I don't get any of the formations or technical skill or whatever, it just looks like people kicking a ball back and forth.  I've never really made an attempt to understand or like soccer because I spend enough time watching football and basketball, and I don't really need another sport to watch.

(As for the "why not play sports instead of watch", I feel like that's similar to "Why don't you write a book instead of reading them")

9
General Discussion / Re: Americans and draws
« on: May 31, 2013, 07:42:30 am »
The two reasons my friends don't like following soccer (other than the ridiculous "but nothing happens!" argument, [...]

I think it has to do with the fact that you can't "play for a draw", and use negative tactics to ensure a better chance at a result. I see the side of this argument, but I think that playing for a draw should be valid, as well.

I fail to see how that's ridiculous. it's true.

I compare it to American football, which has 45 seconds off, 15 seconds on, repeatedly. In a tree hour game there's so, so, so much less action.

But the pauses in action are necessary for the overall game.  During the pauses, the offense is setting up a play that the defense has to get ready to try to read.  Once you understand the strategy behind the game, there is excitement in seeing how the formations are being set up by each team even if they're not moving at that moment.  About the only time that the teams are literally doing nothing is during time-outs or when they're trying to run down the clock.

(This does not count commercials, of which there are way too many.)

In any case it's often hard to make a valid criticism of a sport you don't know much about.  I don't watch soccer or really understand more than the basic "kick it into the net".  When I do watch a game, it just looks like people kicking a ball back and forth, until maybe one of them happens to kick it in the net once or twice during a 90 minute game.  I know there's more than this to the game if I actually took the time to understand what the strategy was. 

10
General Discussion / Re: Americans and draws
« on: May 30, 2013, 01:36:07 pm »
I think the NFL way of breaking american football ties is much better. Just play an extra period sudden death (with a restriction to prevent the game from ending on a field goal by the first team to possess the ball). This makes it essentially like continuing the game with the same rules (a little different since you're more likely to settle for a field goal than go for a touchdown). There are still ties, but rarely, and it's okay. I'm actually watching more football, not a shootout. However, most other Americans I talk to like the college football method better and it blows my mind... I guess it's just the general love of scoring...

I agree.  I'm not a fan of the NCAA one because college football games are already long enough, and the NCAA overtime takes too much of the regular football stuff out of the game.

I like the NFL sudden death, although I don't mind the addition of either the "first to 6" or "guaranteed possession for each side" rule.  I don't really have a problem with the pure sudden death, though. IMO if you couldn't score more points than the other team in 60 minutes, and you can't stop their offense on an additional drive, you deserve the loss.  If you're going to complain that your team's offense didn't get a chance, they had 60 minutes of chances.

11
General Discussion / Re: Americans and draws
« on: May 30, 2013, 11:25:37 am »
I've never understood the appeal of baseball. I find most Canadians don't. We share a lot of culture, but baseball is something we just don't get.  :P

A lot of Americans don't either.  Baseball has fallen off dramatically in popularity.  It was created during an era when average people were starting to get lots of leisure time but there still wasn't a huge amount of leisure entertainment available.  I personally find it way too slow moving and boring to watch, and I also don't like the fact that the huge number of games they play each season means that each individual game is nearly meaningless in the overall picture.  I have the same problem with the NBA, though.

The only professional sports I watch regularly are (American) football, and college basketball.  I also watch the Tour de France in July but I do cycling myself and I can understand why people would find it boring.  American football is by far my favorite spectator sport, though, and watching football is one of my favorite leisure activities.

12
General Discussion / Re: Americans and draws
« on: May 29, 2013, 09:55:01 pm »
I think that an overtime period to determine a winner is much more exciting than a tie.  But then again, I'm just an American.  We don't like ties.

13
General Discussion / Re: Americans and draws
« on: May 29, 2013, 08:49:35 pm »
I see one American who doesn't like draws in that thread.

14
Rules Questions / Re: Golem+Card Draws/+Actions
« on: May 29, 2013, 09:09:38 am »
The timings of the things happening on cards are a little difficult sometimes.


I've never really seen the problem here.  Every line of the card is executed, in order, before moving on to the next step.  "+1 Action" is resolved immediately, by adding one to the number of actions you can play that turn.  It sounds like you're trying to continue interpreting it as "Take an action" but just saying that the timing is deferred until later in the turn, but that seems to be more confusing to me.

Maybe I'm just unusual, but to me, the most natural way to interpret "+1" is that some counter is being increased, not that I'm being asked to do something.  If my boss tells me he's giving me an extra vacation day, that doesn't mean I have to leave the office immediately and take a vacation day right then.

(EDIT: Text under a line is not resolved immediately, but this is always made clear because the text is prefaced with something like "When this is trashed" or "At the start of your next turn")

I think this has been discussed before, but the one thing I would have changed about Dominion is to use separate words for the things you need to spend to play cards, and the type of card itself. Most likely something like "worker" instead of "action", and keep "action cards" the same. So Village would give you +1 card, +2 workers. Of course, Worker's Village should be renamed...

This seems like it could lead to further confusion on another common newbie question, whether you need extra actions to play Throne Room.  If people think that "play a card" means "Use up a worker, put the card in front of you, execute the instruction" then it would sound like you need 3 workers to use a throne room.

15
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Greatest Dominion moments 2013
« on: May 27, 2013, 12:07:55 pm »
Reminds me of the rulings text for Mindslaver in MtG, which also allows you to control a players turn.  "You can't make the other player concede"

This is my favorite Mindslaver ruling:
 "If you make another player cast Shahrazad, you don't control that player in the subgame, but you continue to control them once the subgame is completed."

That sounds like the worst game of Magic ever.

16
Rules Questions / Re: Knights trashing Knights
« on: May 26, 2013, 08:24:39 pm »
Thanks all!  I just figured that if I am trashing the card then I lose the +2 actions because they are removed from play cause the card is removed from play.

Once Actions, Buys, and Coins are added to your pool of actions/buys/coins, the game no longer cares where they came from and they can't be retroactively taken away no matter what happens.

(Poor House is the only current card that can sort of do this, but it proves this rule because it reduces your coins from your total pool without considering where the coins came from, even coins that didn't come from Poor House can be taken away.)

17
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Hospital, Construct, Soup Kitchen
« on: May 26, 2013, 04:39:54 pm »
The old one wasn't so much weak as it was just steamrolling the game towards a three-pile ending while filling everyone's decks with junk.  If you're in a 4-player game it's hard to do any sort of strategy if you're having to take 3-4 $3 cards every turn (and you might even have to take more). 

18
Rules Questions / Re: Golem+Card Draws/+Actions
« on: May 26, 2013, 12:28:49 pm »
The timings of the things happening on cards are a little difficult sometimes.


I've never really seen the problem here.  Every line of the card is executed, in order, before moving on to the next step.  "+1 Action" is resolved immediately, by adding one to the number of actions you can play that turn.  It sounds like you're trying to continue interpreting it as "Take an action" but just saying that the timing is deferred until later in the turn, but that seems to be more confusing to me.

Maybe I'm just unusual, but to me, the most natural way to interpret "+1" is that some counter is being increased, not that I'm being asked to do something.  If my boss tells me he's giving me an extra vacation day, that doesn't mean I have to leave the office immediately and take a vacation day right then.

(EDIT: Text under a line is not resolved immediately, but this is always made clear because the text is prefaced with something like "When this is trashed" or "At the start of your next turn")

19
Rules Questions / Re: Golem+Card Draws/+Actions
« on: May 26, 2013, 08:43:55 am »
Thanks guys.  My confusion was that when Throne Room says to "resolve the action completely" I thought that also meant the +Actions you get.  I now see that the resolving only refers to the text below and that any bolded + items refer to your whole turn.

Thanks, guess I have been playing incorrectly for a while now, but I'll correct it in my group.

Just in case there's any additional confusion, if a card gives a +Buy, you don't buy a card right there.  It just gives you one additional (optional) buy when you finish playing your actions and reach your buy phase.

20
Rules Questions / Re: Golem+Card Draws/+Actions
« on: May 25, 2013, 10:46:50 pm »
Do we have this clearly written up in some FAQ somewhere, like maybe on the wiki? It seems the "+Actions means I have to play action cards immediately" questions comes up about once a month, and it would be nice to link to it.

It always makes me wonder how many people must be playing like that who never think to ask on the Internet or look.  I've always wanted to try playing a round where +action means "Play another action right now" to see what kind of mess you get out of it.

21
I thought the original idea was fairly simple -- parts of cards where, given certain kingdoms, that part will never activate.  For instance, a Moat in a game with no attacks:  the reaction part will never activate no matter what.

22
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: A small set about Curses
« on: May 20, 2013, 04:38:13 pm »
One thing you should also be careful about is that some Dominion cards give out "curses", others "curse cards".  This doesn't matter because Donald X has said he will never make another card of the type "curse".

Of course, this isn't a big deal since it's simple enough just to make the rule that "curse" or "curse card" both include super curses.

EDIT: This was basically already mentioned, but one of the biggest rules misconceptions that even some experienced players have is talking about the "value" of treasure or how much a treasure is "worth".  These concepts do not exist in Dominion.  You can play treasures during your Buy phase, and those treasures generate coins.  The 2 coins from playing a Silver are the same as the 2 coins from playing a Woodcutter.  You do not "spend" treasure cards directly to buy things.  That's why the previous posters were telling you that Curse Upgrader, as currently worded, has no effect.  Asper's rewording is what you want, though.

23
Scout is pretty terrible

The idea is to come up with cards that have text that might be literally useless given the "right" kingdom -- Scout's ability doesn't qualify because Estates, Duchies, and Provinces are always in the game so as bad as the ability is, it will never be impossible to use.

24
I agree that there should be a way to code the automatch to encourage people to buy the sets; even just something as simple as biasing automatch towards people with the same sets as you might work.

25
I would like to see Goko do well -- their implementation is certainly adequate and at least for me, only a relatively small number of things need to be added or improved in order for me to consider it good.

At the moment the lack of automatch is the only thing I consider absolutely unacceptable, and it's the sole reason why I haven't paid for Goko yet.

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