6. Play a minimum of three games, and a maximum of six games, based on the next section. If any game was a tie, the sixth game will be played.
How to Score Your Match
1. If a player has scored 3 match points within 4 games, that player wins the match.
Quote6. Play a minimum of three games, and a maximum of six games, based on the next section. If any game was a tie, the sixth game will be played.
How to Score Your Match
1. If a player has scored 3 match points within 4 games, that player wins the match.
I still don't understand this. If I win my first 2 games, tie the third and win the fourth, I have 3.5 match points and am thus guaranteed to win. Why, then, should we still play two more games?
The player with the most sets will host each game using random cards in Unrated mode. That player should also take responsibility for saving game logs.
The player with the most sets will host each game using random cards in Unrated mode. That player should also take responsibility for saving game logs.
Shouldn't it be the player with the most cards? Or does a small set count as much as a big set? If that's the case, then what about promos?
There's also a glitch in the Tournament Spreadsheet, row 52.
tag
What is this? I don't even...tag
What is this? I don't even...tag
Oh, ok that makes sense.What is this? I don't even...tag
He's posting in the thread so it shows up on his "New Replies" page and not just on the "Unread Posts" page.
michaeljb 3.5 - 1.5 pst
Game 1 (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130810/log.50a6c1abe4b03214bb7822e9.1376158717137.txt)
michaeljb 56 - 56 pst
Game 2 (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130810/log.50a6c1abe4b03214bb7822e9.1376159849291.txt)
pst 47 - 34 michaeljb
Game 3 (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130810/log.50a6c1abe4b03214bb7822e9.1376161160534.txt)
pst 0 - 1 michaeljb
Game 4 (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130810/log.50a6c1abe4b03214bb7822e9.1376161839463.txt)
michaeljb 46 - 29 pst
Game 5 (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130810/log.50a6c1abe4b03214bb7822e9.1376162821665.txt)
michaeljb 41 - 36 pst
blueblimp 3 - 3 WalrusMcFishSr (we rejoice in our shared victory)Interesting kingdoms that I feel I misplayed quite a bit.
Game 1 (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130810/log.5066a4d70cf20e086dc89e71.1376165539331.txt)
blueblimp 53 - 52 WalrusMcFishSr
Game 2 (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130810/log.5066a4d70cf20e086dc89e71.1376166416529.txt)
WalrusMcFishSr 43 - 30 blueblimp
Game 3 (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130810/log.5066a4d70cf20e086dc89e71.1376167208101.txt)
WalrusMcFishSr 3 - 9 blueblimp
Game 4 (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130810/log.5066a4d70cf20e086dc89e71.1376167865029.txt)
WalrusMcFishSr 3 - -5 blueblimp
(looks like I forgot to check who goes first in this game, oops)
Game 5 (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130810/log.5066a4d70cf20e086dc89e71.1376168618384.txt)
blueblimp 55 - 49 WalrusMcFishSr
Game 6 (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130810/log.5066a4d70cf20e086dc89e71.1376169178453.txt)
WalrusMcFishSr 29 - 27 blueblimp
you're it.What is this? I don't even...tag
Psyduck defeats kn1tt3r 3:1
Game 1 (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130810/log.505c84d751c3249282789115.1376158310851.txt) 37:34 -> 1:0
kn1tt3r plays Councilroom-BM, I try to establish an engine based on Fortress and Councilroom, hoping to pull off some tricks with Farmland. While I farmland two Estates into Fortresses, kn1tt3r builds up some economy and has a lead. I feel that I get very lucky with my Smugglers and the Farmlands and can squeeze out a close win.
Game 2 (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130810/log.505c84d751c3249282789115.1376159756612.txt) 13:12 -> 2:0
An interesting game around University, Ambassador, Highway, Count, Worker's Village and Black Market. kn1tt3r starts Count/-, while I buy Ambassador/Potion. We play some tennis, kn1tt3r has the leaner deck, I have more action cards. Luckily, I can buy Envoy and Catacombs from the Black Market, as there wasn't any other draw. When Highway and Worker's Village are empty, it all comes down to a sudden three-pille ending. So we start buying some green as protection, as in my last turn I gain the last 6(!) Counts and use another one to gain a Duchy for the win.
Game 3 (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130810/log.505c84d751c3249282789115.1376160245361.txt) 25:33 -> 2:1
Wharf-BM. I feel happy as I can start Wharf/Embargo, while my opponent has to start Remake/Silver. I put a token on Grand Market and get my third Wharf in turn 5. However, kn1tt3r remakes his Estates into Silvers and has way more money and a much better deck, so he wins without any problems.
Game 4 (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130810/log.505c84d751c3249282789115.1376161039107.txt) 15:3 -> 3:1
Here we have draw (Wharf, Ghost Ship, Fortune Teller), +action (Bandit Camp), +buy (Wharf, Nomad Camp), discard attacks (Ghost Ship, Militia) and a gainer (Haggler), so I try to build an engine and hope to get some trashing from the Black Market. Therefore I start Militia/Silver, while kn1tt3r goes for the same with Black Market/Silver. For some reasons I don't see yet (hints are appreciated) it comes together much better for me. My Spice Merchant from the BM as well as kn1tt3r's Forge don't play an important role anymore, as he resigns after my second Province.
Psyduck defeats kn1tt3r 3:1
Game 1 (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130810/log.505c84d751c3249282789115.1376158310851.txt) 37:34 -> 1:0
kn1tt3r plays Councilroom-BM, I try to establish an engine based on Fortress and Councilroom, hoping to pull off some tricks with Farmland. While I farmland two Estates into Fortresses, kn1tt3r builds up some economy and has a lead. I feel that I get very lucky with my Smugglers and the Farmlands and can squeeze out a close win.
Since Council Room games tend to be very fast, I didn't expect an engine to be any good. So well, in the end I probably made some endgame mistakes, but overall this goes down to 1st player advantage I guess?
Video: http://youtu.be/DzU2fd1Dgjo
Psyduck defeats kn1tt3r 3:1
Game 1 (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130810/log.505c84d751c3249282789115.1376158310851.txt) 37:34 -> 1:0
kn1tt3r plays Councilroom-BM, I try to establish an engine based on Fortress and Councilroom, hoping to pull off some tricks with Farmland. While I farmland two Estates into Fortresses, kn1tt3r builds up some economy and has a lead. I feel that I get very lucky with my Smugglers and the Farmlands and can squeeze out a close win.
Since Council Room games tend to be very fast, I didn't expect an engine to be any good. So well, in the end I probably made some endgame mistakes, but overall this goes down to 1st player advantage I guess?
Video: http://youtu.be/DzU2fd1Dgjo
I just really feel like Smugglers is key here. As second player I definitely would have picked one up. Especially if the other player goes Council Room, too -- then you can play Smugglers and still have a 5 card hand quite often without returning the externality.
Nice games!
I have a first-round match where someone didn't report they had no cards, and that match gets to be all-base, which shouldn't have happened.Isn't it possible to switch opponents? Most matches are not played yet. For example me and shark_bait both have all cards and our match is scheduled to Tuesday.
Hm. Maybe. I don't know... the thing is, with a BM strategy you can play Smugglers only once in a while, so you have to get lucky regarding your opponents' buys. In an engine it's way better (and it was great for him) because you can play it frequently and possibly gain treasures while spending your own buys and gains on engine components.
Too late, we already played.I have a first-round match where someone didn't report they had no cards, and that match gets to be all-base, which shouldn't have happened.Isn't it possible to switch opponents? Most matches are not played yet. For example me and shark_bait both have all cards and our match is scheduled to Tuesday.
Loppo 3-1 Bekse
Game 1 (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130811/log.516ce638e4b082c74d7a5a9b.1376244887192.txt) Loppo 0-1 Bekse
Game 2 (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130811/log.50955175e4b013548a3d58f0.1376245745033.txt) Loppo 1-1 Bekse
Game 3 (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130811/log.516ce638e4b082c74d7a5a9b.1376246408122.txt) Loppo 2-1 Bekse
Game 4 (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130811/log.50955175e4b013548a3d58f0.1376247145002.txt) Loppo 3-1 Bekse
Bekse is a new dutch player. He is most familar with base+Intrihue, so we played half the games this way, and the other half full. sets random. So if you spot him give him a helping hand. Another Dutch champion on his way up.
Watno 3 - 0 mail-miOn mobile, I will talk more later.
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130812/log.50e20cf4e4b0a47150882831.1376323455518.txt
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130812/log.50e20cf4e4b0a47150882831.1376324104942.txt
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130812/log.50e20cf4e4b0a47150882831.1376325053033.txt
Joseph2302 2-4 gman314
Game 1: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130812/log.5062f3dc51c3843e7939eb9f.1376333297553.txt
Game 2: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130812/log.5062f3dc51c3843e7939eb9f.1376333979722.txt
Game 3: Forgot to Get Log, but gman314 won
Game 4: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130812/log.5062f3dc51c3843e7939eb9f.1376335112544.txt
Game 5: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130812/log.5062f3dc51c3843e7939eb9f.1376335750535.txt
Game 6: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130812/log.5062f3dc51c3843e7939eb9f.1376336340009.txt
Remake isn't great on a Poor House board.
Beyond Awesome defeats Kirian 3-1:
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130812/log.50612f220cf2d91d287a93b8.1376357038883.txt
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130812/log.50635cc651c3843e7939ece8.1376357869706.txt
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130812/log.50635cc651c3843e7939ece8.1376358705225.txt
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130812/log.50635cc651c3843e7939ece8.1376359922996.txt
Game 1: Knights, as it turns out, don't work so well when Fool's Gold can buy you Platinum. Taking the first Knight and letting your opponent grab Dame Anna to trash with in a FG match... was a bad move.
Game 2: Marauder just doesn't do much against Menagerie. While I do think BA got lucky a few times with Menagerie, on average his deck was just built really well for it. I seriously considered going Mint-Embargo as an opening here, I wonder how it would have gone.
Game 3: FG again. An early Counterfeit was key, but this game is a reminder that Laboratory isn't fancy, but really only needs some +Buy to make a good engine.
Game 4: As I said to BA after the game: Somehow, despite the fact that they're in the same set, and the fact that the set has been out for years, I failed to notice the synergy between Apothecary and Scrying Pool. The killer here, though, was when he was able to gain and then draw two Golds on the same turn using Graverobber-Market Square-Vagrant craziness.
Well played, BA!
GwinnR 4-2 HMEI totally agree.
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130812/log.5135b68ce4b07f4f52107e0e.1376327682881.txt
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130812/log.5135b68ce4b07f4f52107e0e.1376328359640.txt
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130812/log.5135b68ce4b07f4f52107e0e.1376328923183.txt
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130812/log.5135b68ce4b07f4f52107e0e.1376329548879.txt
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130812/log.5135b68ce4b07f4f52107e0e.1376330008872.txt
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130812/log.5135b68ce4b07f4f52107e0e.1376331249623.txt
Game 1 we both employed similar strategies, with a Ghost Ship and Plaza+Journeyman. It mostly came down to lining up Plazas with Journeymen. The tokens made for some interesting decisions for what to do with early money, but in the end GwinnR was able to get in a Market which gave him an edge, and I couldn't get lucky enough draws to make it out.
40-29 GwinnR
Game 2 was Mountebanks and Salvager. He opted for Highways, and I got a Catacombs which turned out to be mostly useless. Nothing really interesting here.
38-22 GwinnR
Game 3 we both opened Ambassador/Jack and went into Council Room + money. There was a bit of interesting Duchy dancing at the end, but I just got better draws and won.
44-33 HME
Game 4 we went for Council Room + Masterpiece, but I started greening much earlier for the Silk Roads. He built up a lot more but couldn't overcome the Silk Roads.
69-57 HME
Game 5 was just Jack, Candlestick Maker, Royal Seal, and money. Not much to see here, though I made a big error topdecking a Gold instead of buying a Duchy on turn 12, which put me in bad shape for the endgame.
33-24 GwinnR
Game 6 was an interesting one with Silk Road, Trade Route, Crossroads, Armory, and Golem. He started with more Armories, while I got a Library and a Junk Dealer (huge mistake). This, along with first turn, allowed him to win the Silk Road split 6-2. It remained kind of close, since I had the ability to buy Provinces, but with $4 Trade Routes and piles pretty low, I would have needed quite a bit more luck to actually overtake him.
44-40 GwinnR
Overall, GwinnR played a much more solid series than me and got a 4-2 win to show for it.
sharkbait (3) over yed (0)
Game 1 (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130813/log.51102b6ee4b06719e45eef9d.1376433892173.txt)
Game 2 (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130813/log.51102b6ee4b06719e45eef9d.1376434363971.txt)
Game 3 (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130813/log.50ea2963e4b0429cfe091cec.1376434979756.txt)
A Drowned Kernel defeats Rabid 3-0
Game One (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130812/log.51102f16e4b0fb53a9f92227.1376337991381.txt)
Game Two (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130812/log.51102f16e4b0fb53a9f92227.1376338909526.txt)
Game Three (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130812/log.51102f16e4b0fb53a9f92227.1376339736643.txt)
AI (ragingduckd) and ednever tie 3-3
Game 1 (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130813/log.5101a6c4e4b02b7235c3860f.1376443440281.txt) (AI)
Game 2 (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130813/log.5101a6c4e4b02b7235c3860f.1376446280835.txt) (ednever)
Game 3 (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130813/log.5101a6c4e4b02b7235c3860f.1376447456694.txt) (AI)
Game 4 (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130813/log.5101a6c4e4b02b7235c3860f.1376448850044.txt) (AI)
Game 5 (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130813/log.5101a6c4e4b02b7235c3860f.1376450131622.txt) (ednever)
Game 6 (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130813/log.5101a6c4e4b02b7235c3860f.1376450955077.txt) (ednever)
Games 1, 2, and 5 were runaways, where early decisions and early draws decided the game rather quickly, though we both hung on for quite a while when we were losing. Games 3, 4, and 6 were hard-fought battles that came down to the last turn and just a few VP.
Game 1 (http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/kingdomvisualize?logurl=http://dominionlogs.goko.com/20130813/log.5101a6c4e4b02b7235c3860f.1376443440281.txt&width=100&submit=Search) was a very Apothecary-friendly board, with Cellar, Herbalist, Stonemason, Upgrade, and Nobles. The first few turns were a dead mirror, and I'm embarrassed to admit that I completely forgot that $4+P could buy two Apothecaries via Stonemason. Luckily, my first-player-advantage ended up winning me the Apothecary split anyway, after which I don't think there was much ednever could have done to recover. He mentioned in chat that he had made some early mistakes that probably cost him the game, but I don't actually know what they were.
Game 2 (http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/kingdomvisualize?logurl=http://dominionlogs.goko.com/20130813/log.5101a6c4e4b02b7235c3860f.1376446280835.txt&width=100&submit=Search) was another engine board, a Colony game with Hamlet, Warehouse, Jack, Golem, Cartographer, and Festival. I bought a questionable second Jack and ednever had a big lead by T8 with an Altar and a Golem against my pile of Hamlets. I panicked and bought a Bank on T11 to pick up a couple of Colonies, fearing that he'd 3-pile me otherwise, but ednever calmly and correctly continued building up his engine and he ended up winning huge.Felt great on this one as soon as Andrew picked up the second Jack. First Jack is great to convert Estates into Silvers, and give you some draw (nice with Warehouse and Hamlet and Festival), but you don't want that many Silvers here that it's worth getting two. Bank is questionable as well as you don't have the draw to get many silvers out. In fact Andrew played two banks as his only two treasures one turn. Ouch.
Wow. I messed this one up bad. I had first player advantage, but Andrew started 5/2. That's usually enough on a Rebuild board without a lot of other options. I was still holding it together when I messed up and named Estate instead of Province at one point. I trashed a Province for a Province and the game was Andrew's. I ended the game just to end it. There were 2 Estates and a Province left and I was down by 8 with 1st Player position. Nothing I could do.
Game 3 (http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/kingdomvisualize?logurl=http://dominionlogs.goko.com/20130813/log.5101a6c4e4b02b7235c3860f.1376447456694.txt&width=100&submit=Search) featured Rebuild, Crossroads, Warehouse, Peddler, and six other cards that could be pretty safely ignored. Lots of shuffle luck here, and I ended up with a VP lead and three Rebuilds to ednever's one. In the end, ednever was far enough behind that needed to actually buy the last Province for the win, but we had accidentally played without the VP counter and I think he miscounted the score. He ended up rebuilding into the last Province and falling 1 VP short.
Thought I had this one. I lost the Governor split, but had the right draws. I mega-turned for 3 Provinces. Then he go nothing. Then I pulled off another 2 Provinces. I figured I had it.
Game 4 (http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/kingdomvisualize?logurl=http://dominionlogs.goko.com/20130813/log.5101a6c4e4b02b7235c3860f.1376448850044.txt&width=100&submit=Search) was all about Governor, Hermit, and Horse Traders, at least the way we played it. Although the board also had Swindler, Monument, and Jester, the 12-turn game just wasn't long enough for any of them to pay off, in spite of the presence of Fairgrounds. I won the Governor split 6-4 and ednever responded by rushing Provinces, picking up five of them before my mega-turn was ready. Double-Madman and Fairgrounds saved me and I just managed to eke out a 2 VP win.
I think FG's was a mistake here. FG is only good if you get a bunch of them and play money (with draw and +buy). Here you need to (1) Hurt the other guy with Cultists, (2) Get an early KC, (3) Get a Scheme (4) Connect the Scheme with the KC, (5) Get more KG and Schemes and build an unstoppable engine; Catacombs was also great here for the draw to get your entire deck in hand every turn. The only wild card here was Possession. You could build a serious Possession engine that could play the card many times per turn (two possessions and some KC give you 6 plays of the other guy's deck). It also messes with the other guy's KC-Scheme machine. The issue is that by the time you set up an engine that can do that, you can drive 2 or more provinces a turn. It was my back-up against a Big-Money style play where I was too far behind when I got everything set up. Andrew went for the Potion which worried me, but I was able to end it before he could even buy his first possession.
Game 5 (http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/kingdomvisualize?logurl=http://dominionlogs.goko.com/20130813/log.5101a6c4e4b02b7235c3860f.1376450131622.txt&width=100&submit=Search) was painful. We both picked up 5/2 on a board with King's Court, Cultist, Scheme, Fool's Gold, and several strong engine support cards. The board clearly called for Cultist into KC engine, but I opened up Cultist/FS while ednever opened Cultist/-. Shuffle luck resulted in my winning the Ruins split 4-6, but Scheme made that pretty irrelevant after I didn't connect my two FG's and ednever picked up a T6 King's Court. From there on it was a pretty much a slaughter. I can't really complain, as I certainly deserved to be punished for playing a schizophrenic and high-variance FG-into-KC-engine strategy as the first player.
Best game of the bunch. Very close. I made another mistake on this one misclicking with the Count (Have I mentioned how much I dislike the unforgiving Goko Interface!?!? I didn't even mention the Cartographer I trashed with my Jack in game 2!) and picking up an Estate instead of +$3. That turn I had to settle on two Duchies instead of a Province. I was kicking myself for it the entire game. Thankfully it came together in the end. Just in time.
Game 6 (http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/kingdomvisualize?logurl=http://dominionlogs.goko.com/20130813/log.5101a6c4e4b02b7235c3860f.1376450955077.txt&width=100&submit=Search) was clearly a BM-something setup, but with Fortune Teller, Caravan, Jack, and Count, it wasn't immediately clear what the "something" was. My 5/2 split made my decision for me and I opened Count/- while ednever opened Caravan/Fortune Teller and picked up a Count on the second shuffle. Neither of us bothered with Jack. I took an early lead on Provinces but I never got around to buying Caravans, and ednever closed the VP gap. We both picked up a bunch of Duchies with Count and soon it was a matter of VP math. On T14, I took two Duchies instead of a Province to force ednever to pick up 2 of the 3 remaining Provinces. After he bought one of them I faced a similar decision on T20, and I bought an Estate to force him to get both of the 2 remaining Provinces to win. Tragically, he did so, while my pile of green kept me from getting to $8 again until T21, when I drew a beautiful $5 + Count with an 8-VP lead only to watch ednever play exactly $8 for the last Province and an 11 VP win.
I missed GokoDom I, so this was my first-ever tournament matchup. It was a very good and enjoyable series, with ednever performing far above his supposed Level 40 Isotropish/6000 Goko rating. I'm glad I didn't have to play a Game 7!
Jaybeez - EgorK 3:1
EgorK - Jaybeez 44:67 (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130814/log.505d7a160cf2ef979299a48e.1376493472629.txt (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130814/log.505d7a160cf2ef979299a48e.1376493472629.txt))
Jaybeez - EgorK 19:30 (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130814/log.505d7a160cf2ef979299a48e.1376493918032.txt (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130814/log.505d7a160cf2ef979299a48e.1376493918032.txt))
Jaybeez - EgorK 39:9, resigned (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130814/log.505d7a160cf2ef979299a48e.1376494431373.txt (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130814/log.505d7a160cf2ef979299a48e.1376494431373.txt))
EgorK - Jeybeez 36:38 (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130814/log.505d7a160cf2ef979299a48e.1376495051421.txt (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130814/log.505d7a160cf2ef979299a48e.1376495051421.txt))
I'm becoming more and more convinced Butcher is one of the best cards in the game.I absolutely agree. I think much of its strength lies in its incredible versatility. At worst, it's a silver that requires an action to play it. At best, it can turn a Curse into a Colony.
Mic Qsenoch beats AdamH 3-0
More stuff to come later
1. http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130814/log.5085f5130cf270038ff92212.1376521188700.txt
2. http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130814/log.5085f5130cf270038ff92212.1376521802828.txt
3. http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130814/log.5085f5130cf270038ff92212.1376522530361.txt
AI (ragingduckd) and ednever tie 3-3
(...)
Game 5 (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130813/log.5101a6c4e4b02b7235c3860f.1376450131622.txt) (ednever)
I think FG's was a mistake here. FG is only good if you get a bunch of them and play money (with draw and +buy).
(...)
Jaybeez - EgorK 3:1Thought I'd add a few comments.
EgorK - Jaybeez 44:67 (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130814/log.505d7a160cf2ef979299a48e.1376493472629.txt (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130814/log.505d7a160cf2ef979299a48e.1376493472629.txt))
Jaybeez - EgorK 19:30 (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130814/log.505d7a160cf2ef979299a48e.1376493918032.txt (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130814/log.505d7a160cf2ef979299a48e.1376493918032.txt))
Jaybeez - EgorK 39:9, resigned (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130814/log.505d7a160cf2ef979299a48e.1376494431373.txt (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130814/log.505d7a160cf2ef979299a48e.1376494431373.txt))
EgorK - Jeybeez 36:38 (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130814/log.505d7a160cf2ef979299a48e.1376495051421.txt (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130814/log.505d7a160cf2ef979299a48e.1376495051421.txt))
AI (ragingduckd) and ednever tie 3-3
(...)
Game 5 (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130813/log.5101a6c4e4b02b7235c3860f.1376450131622.txt) (ednever)
I think FG's was a mistake here. FG is only good if you get a bunch of them and play money (with draw and +buy).
(...)
I'm not really sure if FG is a mistake. Let's take a look on it like this. (1) It's a better copper. (2) If bought as opener w/ cultist (5/2) (or other power 2-card drawer) it decreases chance that cultist will miss a shuffle. But with Cultist/- you have chance to play cultist faster.
With Cultist/FG you have 5/6 chance to not miss a shuffle.
With Cultist/- you have only 5/11 for not missing shuffle. But in that 5/11 you will shuffle T4 already w/ cultist possibly 2.
What do you think is better? Cultist/FG IMHO lowers variance and also highers EV, but I'm not really sure.
(3) It increses $/card density for few first turns (4) It can be turned into gold later.
On the other hand it makes some crazy engine harder to set up.
Still it may be ok to buy it just for (2) even w/o other FGs in deck. What you think? Maybe without such a strong engine (KC/Scheme/Draw). I really don't know, I'm seeking opinions ;)
It can be general discusion about Cultist/- vs Cultist/Copper or Witch/- vs Witch/Copper. FG is just a better copper
AI (ragingduckd) and ednever tie 3-3
(...)
Game 5 (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130813/log.5101a6c4e4b02b7235c3860f.1376450131622.txt) (ednever)
I think FG's was a mistake here. FG is only good if you get a bunch of them and play money (with draw and +buy).
(...)
I'm not really sure if FG is a mistake. Let's take a look on it like this. (1) It's a better copper. (2) If bought as opener w/ cultist (5/2) (or other power 2-card drawer) it decreases chance that cultist will miss a shuffle. But with Cultist/- you have chance to play cultist faster.
With Cultist/FG you have 5/6 chance to not miss a shuffle.
With Cultist/- you have only 5/11 for not missing shuffle. But in that 5/11 you will shuffle T4 already w/ cultist possibly 2.
What do you think is better? Cultist/FG IMHO lowers variance and also highers EV, but I'm not really sure.
(3) It increses $/card density for few first turns (4) It can be turned into gold later.
On the other hand it makes some crazy engine harder to set up.
Still it may be ok to buy it just for (2) even w/o other FGs in deck. What you think? Maybe without such a strong engine (KC/Scheme/Draw). I really don't know, I'm seeking opinions ;)
It can be general discusion about Cultist/- vs Cultist/Copper or Witch/- vs Witch/Copper. FG is just a better copper
Good points. I believe you're referring to this discussion (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=8348.0)?
The extra Copper/FG seems more appealing with Cultist than with Witch. Cultist chaining makes it particularly bad to separate a Cultist you play on T4 from one you buy on T4. Cultist is also the faster junker, so a small boost to money density will matter for longer.
I wish I could claim my in-game analysis was this careful. I was mostly just thinking how nice it would be to connect 2 FG and buy an early KC.
AI (ragingduckd) and ednever tie 3-3
Game 1 (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130813/log.5101a6c4e4b02b7235c3860f.1376443440281.txt) (AI)
Game 2 (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130813/log.5101a6c4e4b02b7235c3860f.1376446280835.txt) (ednever)
Game 3 (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130813/log.5101a6c4e4b02b7235c3860f.1376447456694.txt) (AI)
Game 4 (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130813/log.5101a6c4e4b02b7235c3860f.1376448850044.txt) (AI)
Game 5 (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130813/log.5101a6c4e4b02b7235c3860f.1376450131622.txt) (ednever)
Game 6 (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130813/log.5101a6c4e4b02b7235c3860f.1376450955077.txt) (ednever)
AI (ragingduckd) and ednever tie 3-3
Game 1 (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130813/log.5101a6c4e4b02b7235c3860f.1376443440281.txt) (AI)
Game 2 (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130813/log.5101a6c4e4b02b7235c3860f.1376446280835.txt) (ednever)
Game 3 (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130813/log.5101a6c4e4b02b7235c3860f.1376447456694.txt) (AI)
Game 4 (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130813/log.5101a6c4e4b02b7235c3860f.1376448850044.txt) (AI)
Game 5 (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130813/log.5101a6c4e4b02b7235c3860f.1376450131622.txt) (ednever)
Game 6 (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130813/log.5101a6c4e4b02b7235c3860f.1376450955077.txt) (ednever)
I thought if someone won the first 3 out of 4 games, they won the match, no?
WanderingWinder 3 - 1 17and3buysA Big Money-ish Colony game. He goes vault, which I was a bit unsure about for colonies, but it worked pretty well (and I got very little off of the drawback, perhaps I should have been more aggressive). Pretty close throughout.
Game 1: 17and3buys 62 - 53 WW
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130816/log.514b5511e4b0b79c883b5e3b.1376688608146.txt
Game 2: WW 41 - 25 17and3buysThe game I feel I most outplayed him, though hey, I got lucky too with many of my Noble Brigands. I feel that you really need to do go duchy/duke here, and you are so treasure-based that NB should be very good. I even had some chances at provinces due to this, but just plowed for the $5 victory cards and then the end of the game.
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130816/log.514b5511e4b0b79c883b5e3b.1376689042759.txt
Game 3: WW 59 - 11 17and3buysIt really wasn't this close, and there were several points I could have really jacked up the score, but there wasn't any reason/need to. On the other hand, while I think I played fairly well, I couldn't really point out places where I think he played poorly, so I think this may be down largely to some luck at key points and then snowballing.
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130816/log.514b5511e4b0b79c883b5e3b.1376689695093.txt
Game 4: 17and3buys 61 - 66 WWSo, I just head for 8 point fairgrounds. I get worried at some point, as there are only a few provinces left, he has gone for them and has a pretty big lead, and he has apprentice to potentially go for it. But he slows down for some duchies and such at this point, and I think this was a key point of error for him - I feel like he had reasonably good chances if he just went for running the provinces out. This really isn't the best board for the whole 8 pt fairground plan, as there's not a lot to chain (lacks villages) and you get terminal heavy. It isn't the worst, either, as there's not *great* cards for plowing through all the provinces, but well, there was apprentice at least.
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130816/log.514b5511e4b0b79c883b5e3b.1376690281155.txt
Eevee 3.5 - Archetype 1.5Not much to say here. Just bought Rebuilds, a Witch, and went on to win. That Rebuild/Estate start was a big boost.
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130817/log.5158def5e4b0ee7f08a599e4.1376757257165.txt (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130817/log.5158def5e4b0ee7f08a599e4.1376757257165.txt)
Archetype opens 5-2 on a rebuild board and goes on to destroy me.
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130817/log.5158def5e4b0ee7f08a599e4.1376757862585.txt (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130817/log.5158def5e4b0ee7f08a599e4.1376757862585.txt)I was aiming for a stange Bandit Camp/Mandarin/Watchtower deck, but I really underestimated Soothsayer's power and I failed hardcore. What I really needed was some trashing, which wasn't there.
Soothsayer is the key card here. I play more of a money based strategy, and win pretty comfortably. I think Archetype's mistake was buying a soothsayer too late.
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130817/log.5158def5e4b0ee7f08a599e4.1376758564549.txt (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130817/log.5158def5e4b0ee7f08a599e4.1376758564549.txt)This was my favorite game out of the lot. I go Fools Gold early and he goes YW early. We then buy into each others strategies and end in a draw. I probably should've bought 1 less Menagerie, but oh well.
An interesting one with young witch, menagerie as a bane and fool's gold. I fall badly behind but my engine kicks in in time and I'm able to steal a draw.
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130817/log.5158def5e4b0ee7f08a599e4.1376759431995.txt (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130817/log.5158def5e4b0ee7f08a599e4.1376759431995.txt)I didn't want to get too crazy after the BC/Watchtower/Mandarin failure, so I went for a basic HP stack with Steward. But man, HoP is so good here. Well played Eevee!
A board made for a horn of plenty megaturn. Archetype goes for HP+steward, I clear the provinces on turn 12.
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130817/log.5158def5e4b0ee7f08a599e4.1376760606752.txt (http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130817/log.5158def5e4b0ee7f08a599e4.1376760606752.txt)Yeah I was trying for Rabble BM with Trader to help keep away the Knights with Silvers. But I totally forgot about Shelters which made the Trader really weak. But like Eevee said, the Knights got out of hand really quickly and I had to devolve into a basic Horse Traders BM, if you could even call it that. Frustrating game, but my fault for not picking up a few more Knights.
I buy knights whenever I can, get really lucky and snowball. This must have been pretty frustrating for Archetype.
awildnoobappeared d. Robz888 3-1
This could easily have been 3-1 Robz's way but for some bad luck on his part. Obviously I'm happy to win against a highly-ranked player, but I have to admit a lot of things went my way.
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130817/log.514cd37de4b0fe3236619906.1376777332162.txt
Candlestick Maker, Embargo, Pearl Diver, Squire, Great Hall, Loan, Woodcutter, Feast, Venture, Harem
Probably the crappiest board I've ever seen! We both go for Ventures but Robz buys a Loan first up while I don't bother. Looking back I think buying a Loan was a better idea than not (to clear out Coppers for Venture) but my luck holds out and I squeak a 1-point victory.
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130817/log.514cd37de4b0fe3236619906.1376777906525.txt
Secret Chamber, Market Square, Steward, Urchin, Coppersmith, Rats, Treasure Map, Counting House, Merchant Guild, Outpost (colony game)
Again there's not much on offer. Counting House/Market Square is the only thing either of us see. To be honest I thought I had this on turn 9 when I drained the Market Squares but I make a major mistake on turn 12 where I play too many MS's and cause a reshuffle with a CH in hand. From there Robz is able to attack the Colony pile effectively enough to win.
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130817/log.514cd37de4b0fe3236619906.1376778763575.txt
Scrying Pool, Oracle, Village, Philosopher's Stone, Horse Traders, Mining Village, Contraband, Highway, Torturer, Harem
Robz goes for Scrying Pools, while I ignore them and focus on building a Torturer chain. I don't think SP is good here as there's no trashing on offer, and there's Torturer handing out curses.
My plan comes off and Robz loses the curse split 8-2, there's not much coming back from that.
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130817/log.514cd37de4b0fe3236619906.1376779521939.txt
Secret Chamber, Hermit, Masquerade, Feast, Ironmonger, Island, Monument, Apprentice, Haggler, Hunting Grounds
Another fairly unexciting board, we both open Ironmonger/Masquerade picking up a Haggler at first opportunity. Robz picks up Apprentices and I follow along.
His Feast to gain a Duchy would have won him the game on turn 13 if he had revealed a Copper with Ironmonger. (I bought a Hunting Grounds for the same reason, hoping to tie-break by trashing it into a Duchy)
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130817/log.514cd37de4b0fe3236619906.1376777906525.txt
Secret Chamber, Market Square, Steward, Urchin, Coppersmith, Rats, Treasure Map, Counting House, Merchant Guild, Outpost (colony game)
Again there's not much on offer. Counting House/Market Square is the only thing either of us see. To be honest I thought I had this on turn 9 when I drained the Market Squares but I make a major mistake on turn 12 where I play too many MS's and cause a reshuffle with a CH in hand. From there Robz is able to attack the Colony pile effectively enough to win.
Another stupid little board. Weak Colonies lead to Counting House strategy. I think the only difference here is he went for gobs of Market Squares for Copper gaining, and I picked up a Merchant Guild before heading for Counting House. This game could have gone either way--I got reasonable Counting House luck.
I keep up my famously bad showings in Tournaments with a huge loss here. It was... demoralizing.I am shocked that you are shocked. Why are you shocked? Loan has to be the wrong call here, doesn't it? You are aiming for a treasure-based deck, and loan is generally bad there. I mean, I know you are thinking that you're going for ventures, fewer coppers will be good. Yeah, but... you are having one fewer silver, one more copper-equivalent, and it does indeed hurt your early economy a little bit. And going mass venture with money just isn't that great anyway (indeed, it helps the venture, but you're still not all that likely to get to the point where venture>gold). And of course, you will end up hitting non-coppers a reasonably high percentage of the time with loan, as coppers get to be a lower and lower portion of your treasures. So I don't think it's worth it. Of course, if you draw well (hit coppers your first 5 plays or something), it will look good. And if you draw badly (you draw a bit worse than average here), it will look bad.awildnoobappeared d. Robz888 3-1
This could easily have been 3-1 Robz's way but for some bad luck on his part. Obviously I'm happy to win against a highly-ranked player, but I have to admit a lot of things went my way.
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130817/log.514cd37de4b0fe3236619906.1376777332162.txt
Candlestick Maker, Embargo, Pearl Diver, Squire, Great Hall, Loan, Woodcutter, Feast, Venture, Harem
Probably the crappiest board I've ever seen! We both go for Ventures but Robz buys a Loan first up while I don't bother. Looking back I think buying a Loan was a better idea than not (to clear out Coppers for Venture) but my luck holds out and I squeak a 1-point victory.
I was shocked to lose this. Truly shocked. Loan has to be the right call, right? It doesn't hurt my early economy, I get to $5 for Venture no problem. I mean, I know what went wrong--I play a Venture that triggers a nasty reshuffle, and he goes like Province-Province-Province or something while I flounder. Still. I was shocked.
There really isn't much here, and CH is plausible, though I think I would have gone Steward, maybe with MS at the right moment. That might be worse, I really don't know - anything is a little awkward.http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130817/log.514cd37de4b0fe3236619906.1376777906525.txt
Secret Chamber, Market Square, Steward, Urchin, Coppersmith, Rats, Treasure Map, Counting House, Merchant Guild, Outpost (colony game)
Again there's not much on offer. Counting House/Market Square is the only thing either of us see. To be honest I thought I had this on turn 9 when I drained the Market Squares but I make a major mistake on turn 12 where I play too many MS's and cause a reshuffle with a CH in hand. From there Robz is able to attack the Colony pile effectively enough to win.
Another stupid little board. Weak Colonies lead to Counting House strategy. I think the only difference here is he went for gobs of Market Squares for Copper gaining, and I picked up a Merchant Guild before heading for Counting House. This game could have gone either way--I got reasonable Counting House luck.
HT is not really good against torturer, is really good against SP. But the bigger point is, and you know this by now, SP doesn't seem that good here - no trashing, no great cantrips, and there's a good draw engine without the SP - generally these are going to be faster (note I said generally - of course there are edge cases...)http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130817/log.514cd37de4b0fe3236619906.1376778763575.txt
Scrying Pool, Oracle, Village, Philosopher's Stone, Horse Traders, Mining Village, Contraband, Highway, Torturer, Harem
Robz goes for Scrying Pools, while I ignore them and focus on building a Torturer chain. I don't think SP is good here as there's no trashing on offer, and there's Torturer handing out curses.
My plan comes off and Robz loses the curse split 8-2, there's not much coming back from that.
Yeah, I was just outplayed here. I have an ohshiny problem with Scrying Pool. I was hoping he would be a little slower setting up the Torturer chain, but he wasn't. Horse Traders was working annoyingly well for him. He ALWAYS had it in hand, and my Pools were activating it like crazy. I actually think he misplayed it and left the door open by getting too much Treasure and even a Province. But I picked the wrong approach from the start.
I don't think you were wrong to trash masq over gold there - your deck has 2 gold, 5 copper, and a haggler there. So you would have needed to get to gold, haggler, and 3+ coppers if you trash the gold, or get quite good results off of ironmonger and have gold and lots of copper, or every single treasure in your deck - basically these are pretty unlikely, and playing the masquerade probably isn't going to be an option which is going to really help you there. I think you get too many feasts at some point, but in my final analysis, I think this was mostly pretty even play-wise, and goes largely to shuffle luck.http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130817/log.514cd37de4b0fe3236619906.1376779521939.txt
Secret Chamber, Hermit, Masquerade, Feast, Ironmonger, Island, Monument, Apprentice, Haggler, Hunting Grounds
Another fairly unexciting board, we both open Ironmonger/Masquerade picking up a Haggler at first opportunity. Robz picks up Apprentices and I follow along.
His Feast to gain a Duchy would have won him the game on turn 13 if he had revealed a Copper with Ironmonger. (I bought a Hunting Grounds for the same reason, hoping to tie-break by trashing it into a Duchy)
We did similar things, he broke PPR, and I should have been able to snag that last Province easily. I maddeningly couldn't, and then couldn't again. Possibly I Apprenticed the wrong thing on my last turn? I Apprenticed Masq and drew like all Duchies. Maybe shoulda been Gold, but I didn't have SO much money in my deck. I guess should have been Gold. I was like shaking by that point, knowing my fate rested on sealing this game. So I guess I did screw up. I don't know.
I keep up my famously bad showings in Tournaments with a huge loss here. It was... demoralizing.I am shocked that you are shocked. Why are you shocked? Loan has to be the wrong call here, doesn't it? You are aiming for a treasure-based deck, and loan is generally bad there. I mean, I know you are thinking that you're going for ventures, fewer coppers will be good. Yeah, but... you are having one fewer silver, one more copper-equivalent, and it does indeed hurt your early economy a little bit. And going mass venture with money just isn't that great anyway (indeed, it helps the venture, but you're still not all that likely to get to the point where venture>gold). And of course, you will end up hitting non-coppers a reasonably high percentage of the time with loan, as coppers get to be a lower and lower portion of your treasures. So I don't think it's worth it. Of course, if you draw well (hit coppers your first 5 plays or something), it will look good. And if you draw badly (you draw a bit worse than average here), it will look bad.awildnoobappeared d. Robz888 3-1
This could easily have been 3-1 Robz's way but for some bad luck on his part. Obviously I'm happy to win against a highly-ranked player, but I have to admit a lot of things went my way.
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130817/log.514cd37de4b0fe3236619906.1376777332162.txt
Candlestick Maker, Embargo, Pearl Diver, Squire, Great Hall, Loan, Woodcutter, Feast, Venture, Harem
Probably the crappiest board I've ever seen! We both go for Ventures but Robz buys a Loan first up while I don't bother. Looking back I think buying a Loan was a better idea than not (to clear out Coppers for Venture) but my luck holds out and I squeak a 1-point victory.
I was shocked to lose this. Truly shocked. Loan has to be the right call, right? It doesn't hurt my early economy, I get to $5 for Venture no problem. I mean, I know what went wrong--I play a Venture that triggers a nasty reshuffle, and he goes like Province-Province-Province or something while I flounder. Still. I was shocked.
Also, why didn't anybody go squire as silver-flooder here? And I think CSM - just one, maybe two, maybe off opportunistic buys if you're going woodcutter - helps BM a little more than a silver at some point, because that smoothing is nice. Hard to time right, though.
I don't think you were wrong to trash masq over gold there - your deck has 2 gold, 5 copper, and a haggler there. So you would have needed to get to gold, haggler, and 3+ coppers if you trash the gold, or get quite good results off of ironmonger and have gold and lots of copper, or every single treasure in your deck - basically these are pretty unlikely, and playing the masquerade probably isn't going to be an option which is going to really help you there. I think you get too many feasts at some point, but in my final analysis, I think this was mostly pretty even play-wise, and goes largely to shuffle luck.http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130817/log.514cd37de4b0fe3236619906.1376779521939.txt
Secret Chamber, Hermit, Masquerade, Feast, Ironmonger, Island, Monument, Apprentice, Haggler, Hunting Grounds
Another fairly unexciting board, we both open Ironmonger/Masquerade picking up a Haggler at first opportunity. Robz picks up Apprentices and I follow along.
His Feast to gain a Duchy would have won him the game on turn 13 if he had revealed a Copper with Ironmonger. (I bought a Hunting Grounds for the same reason, hoping to tie-break by trashing it into a Duchy)
We did similar things, he broke PPR, and I should have been able to snag that last Province easily. I maddeningly couldn't, and then couldn't again. Possibly I Apprenticed the wrong thing on my last turn? I Apprenticed Masq and drew like all Duchies. Maybe shoulda been Gold, but I didn't have SO much money in my deck. I guess should have been Gold. I was like shaking by that point, knowing my fate rested on sealing this game. So I guess I did screw up. I don't know.