Dominion Strategy Forum
Dominion => Rules Questions => Topic started by: A Drowned Kernel on July 22, 2013, 12:51:12 am
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So I was playing some people IRL and we were playing with Pirate Ship, and they had played with Guilds cards online and had some experience with coin tokens. They wanted to spend the coin tokens Pirate Ship got them and I said "no you can't", and they asked why, and I was forced to say "goko doesn't let you do it, it must be part of the rules". It makes sense to me that Pirate Ship doesn't work like that but I read the card text again and it uses the same language that the guilds cards say, "take a coin token". The guilds rules say you can't use guilds cards to put coin tokens on your Pirate Ship mat but it doesn't say that you can't spend the coin tokens that Pirate Ship gets you. Is there an actual specific rule somewhere that I can point to to show that no, you can't spend your Pirate Ship coin tokens? I feel like I must be missing something really dumb and obvious.
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Unfortunately, the answer is:
1) No, you can't spend coin tokens earned with Pirate Ship
2) The rule book doesn't say you can't
3) But Donald X says so here (http://boardgamegeek.com/article/12590552#12590552)
4) So Pirate Ship's effect is different from what the card actually says.
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Well, the more specific answer is that the Coin Tokens that Pirate Ship gives you go directly onto your Pirate Ship mat, and aren't "your" coin tokens in the sense that all the others are.
The real reason Pirate Ship doesn't clarify that its coin tokens are separate is that it was written and published before Guilds was concieved, and so there was at the time no need to specify that you couldn't spend those coin tokens. Then Guilds came out and made new rules for its coin tokens, but didn't retroactively modify how Pirate Ship works. The Guilds rulebook sort of clarifies this when it says "abilities that give players Coin tokens cannot be used to put them on Pirate Ship mats or the Trade Route mat" but doesn't really go far enough in specifying that.
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The irony here is when I first got Seaside, my Dominion group used the coin tokens as they are in Guilds, not as they were meant to. We always thought PS was way underpowered for that reason.
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The irony here is when I first got Seaside, my Dominion group used the coin tokens as they are in Guilds, not as they were meant to. We always thought PS was way underpowered for that reason.
Until you learned that it is way underpowered for entirely different reasons.
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I seem to remember the Guilds rulebook saying something about this...
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I seem to remember the Guilds rulebook saying something about this...
The Guilds rulebook does specify that tokens gained with Pirate Ship cannot be used in the same way as the tokens taken for cards from Guilds. It's there, but it's in Guilds, not the PS rules (Official guilds rules (http://riograndegames.com/Game/1265-Dominion-Guilds), last paragraph of page 3 to first of page 4).
Edit: Looking at it more closely, the rules only state that you can't put Guilds tokens on your Pirate Ship or Trade Route Mat. They don't clearly say that tokens from PS cannot be used like Guilds tokens, but i guess the Seaside rules allready cover how PS's tokens are used.
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Edit: Looking at it more closely, the rules only state that you can't put Guilds tokens on your Pirate Ship or Trade Route Mat. They don't clearly say that tokens from PS cannot be used like Guilds tokens, but i guess the Seaside rules allready cover how PS's tokens are used.
Yeah, the problem is just that the instructions on Pirate Ship ("take a Coin token") are the same as on Baker etc., so it's a case where just by reading the cards and knowing the general rules you can't actually infer how the cards behave.
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Edit: Looking at it more closely, the rules only state that you can't put Guilds tokens on your Pirate Ship or Trade Route Mat. They don't clearly say that tokens from PS cannot be used like Guilds tokens, but i guess the Seaside rules allready cover how PS's tokens are used.
Yeah, the problem is just that the instructions on Pirate Ship ("take a Coin token") are the same as on Baker etc., so it's a case where just by reading the cards and knowing the general rules you can't actually infer how the cards behave.
Should've named them Pirate Tokens...
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I am sad Donald doesn't reply on f.ds anymore. :'(
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I am sad Donald doesn't reply on f.ds anymore. :'(
^This.
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I had similar confusion the other night. It's actually pretty unfortunate. The text of Pirate Ship reads
Choose one: Each other player reveals the top 2 cards of his deck, trashes a revealed Treasure that you choose, discards the rest, and if anyone trashed a Treasure you take a Coin token; or, +1 Treasure per Coin token you've taken with Pirate Ships this game
If you don't have the Seaside rulebook on you, it's impossible to tell this apart from the text of baker/butcher etc. The problem is that the card itself doesn't reference the Pirate Ship mat.
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I had similar confusion the other night. It's actually pretty unfortunate. The text of Pirate Ship reads
Choose one: Each other player reveals the top 2 cards of his deck, trashes a revealed Treasure that you choose, discards the rest, and if anyone trashed a Treasure you take a Coin token; or, +1 Treasure per Coin token you've taken with Pirate Ships this game
If you don't have the Seaside rulebook on you, it's impossible to tell this apart from the text of baker/butcher etc. The problem is that the card itself doesn't reference the Pirate Ship mat.
it looks as though you should be able to spend the token without losing the value of the pirate ship, since the card doesn't say "tokens on the mat", it says "tokens taken with pirate ship", which doesn't change if you spend them. It think PS would be playable if you were to use it this (non-sanctioned) way.