Dominion Strategy Forum
Dominion => Dominion General Discussion => Topic started by: RTT on June 05, 2013, 07:06:36 am
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i had a 5/2 opening on a Chapel Rebuild kingdom
unfortunaly Rebuild was the only 5$ card so i opened both. my plan was to trash out the coppers gain estates with a armory and rebuild them fast.
unfortunaly that didnt work out i drew my victory cards with the rebuild and couldnt rebuild anything my opponent emptied the duhys and i was stuck at 3 Provinces with no chance of buying anything.
shit happens ;)
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So I'm a big fan of Tunnel, because it's wacky, and one time it was on the board with Minion. I'm like, oh man, I can use Minion to discard like 20 cards a turn, and I will sail to victory on a boat made out of the entire Gold pile. I got a Tunnel, I got a Minion, I discarded the Tunnel to Minion, it was awesome. I got more Minions, and used them to get more Gold, life was good.
A few turns later I was staring at a hand containing one Minion, one Tunnel, and one Gold, and I had a tactical dilemma between making use of my Gold, or making use of my Tunnel. It slowly dawned on me that I had not thought my cunning plan the whole way through. You see, while the initial combo of Minion and Tunnel worked well to get me a pile of Gold, I had forgotten that Gold and Minion are diametrically opposed strategies. Golds do not work when you discard them; furthermore, Tunnels only work when you discard them. My deck had two awesome halves, but I could only use one of the two halves at any given time.
As far as Nombos go, it's kind of decent because you still end up with a deck full of power cards. It's just less than the sum of its parts.
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So I'm a big fan of Tunnel, because it's wacky, and one time it was on the board with Minion. I'm like, oh man, I can use Minion to discard like 20 cards a turn, and I will sail to victory on a boat made out of the entire Gold pile. I got a Tunnel, I got a Minion, I discarded the Tunnel to Minion, it was awesome. I got more Minions, and used them to get more Gold, life was good.
A few turns later I was staring at a hand containing one Minion, one Tunnel, and one Gold, and I had a tactical dilemma between making use of my Gold, or making use of my Tunnel. It slowly dawned on me that I had not thought my cunning plan the whole way through. You see, while the initial combo of Minion and Tunnel worked well to get me a pile of Gold, I had forgotten that Gold and Minion are diametrically opposed strategies. Golds do not work when you discard them; furthermore, Tunnels only work when you discard them. My deck had two awesome halves, but I could only use one of the two halves at any given time.
As far as Nombos go, it's kind of decent because you still end up with a deck full of power cards. It's just less than the sum of its parts.
Add Scout on your first 4. Then it works perfectly.
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Scheme + Treasure Map? :>
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So I'm a big fan of Tunnel, because it's wacky, and one time it was on the board with Minion. I'm like, oh man, I can use Minion to discard like 20 cards a turn, and I will sail to victory on a boat made out of the entire Gold pile. I got a Tunnel, I got a Minion, I discarded the Tunnel to Minion, it was awesome. I got more Minions, and used them to get more Gold, life was good.
A few turns later I was staring at a hand containing one Minion, one Tunnel, and one Gold, and I had a tactical dilemma between making use of my Gold, or making use of my Tunnel. It slowly dawned on me that I had not thought my cunning plan the whole way through. You see, while the initial combo of Minion and Tunnel worked well to get me a pile of Gold, I had forgotten that Gold and Minion are diametrically opposed strategies. Golds do not work when you discard them; furthermore, Tunnels only work when you discard them. My deck had two awesome halves, but I could only use one of the two halves at any given time.
As far as Nombos go, it's kind of decent because you still end up with a deck full of power cards. It's just less than the sum of its parts.
On a serious note, minion+tunnel is actually a thing. It works better than pure minion. It's more of an interesting interaction than a straight up combo, because it's tricky to play. If your opponent goes for a straight minion engine, you can get a bunch of tunnels and fewer minions and he'll just discard them all for you and give you tons of gold. But if they skip minions, then you need to get more to activate your tunnels.
Properly played, minion+tunnel is better than a minion engine and better than most big money benchmarks, but it does take some more careful play than a formulaic strategy.
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Add Scout on your first 4. Then it works perfectly.
That... legitimately sounds like a good use for Scout.
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On the subject of Nombos, I once had an opponent go for Treasure Map/Golem. Apparently they didn't read the card text.
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On a serious note, minion+tunnel is actually a thing. It works better than pure minion. It's more of an interesting interaction than a straight up combo, because it's tricky to play. If your opponent goes for a straight minion engine, you can get a bunch of tunnels and fewer minions and he'll just discard them all for you and give you tons of gold. But if they skip minions, then you need to get more to activate your tunnels.
What if your opponent goes for Tunnels?
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then you are screwed
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then you are screwed
If he buys multiple tunnels without getting a minion, you are NOT screwed. Presumably, you don't buy your tunnels until you already have minions, so now you have fewer tunnels than your opponent. Just don't use the discard effect unless its REALLY beneficial to you. You have a shot at trapping your opponent with useless tunnels if he tries to hard to trap you. If he buys minions too, well then its just a mirror and you're not screwed, its just a tough, tactical game.
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Properly played, minion+tunnel is better than a minion engine and better than most big money benchmarks, but it does take some more careful play than a formulaic strategy.
(bolding mine)
WHICH minion engine? Thing is, just the straight minions-only engine is something that more or less everyone knows, but it's not actually all *that* strong. Add in a couple other cards to it - terminal silvers and some villages, particularly, in general, those which don't draw (it's not that they don't draw, but the lack of drawing isn't missed so much here, and they usually have good points to compensate); also to different extents non-terminal coin producers a la pawn, lighthouse, conspirator, GM - and you have something very strong. In these cases, you are often going to have something to overcome your tunneling friend. But of course, if there aren't *any* cards on the board other than tunnel and minion, you're right.
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One of my biggest blunders was in a kingdom with Band of Misfits, Farming Village, and Bridge. I realized that by just buying Band of Misfits, I could play them from my hand as Farming Villages or Bridges as necessary to play as many Bridges as possible. It worked great and it allowed me to load up on almost the entire stack of Band of Misfits. But then I made the mistake of playing five Misfits as Bridges and the remaining Misfits in my hand were useless, since that reduced the cost of Band of Misfits to zero and there are no cards costing less that the Misfits could be. D'oh.
It was still a powerful deck and I did manage the win, though.
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Chancellor/Tunnel
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Chancellor/Tunnel
Chancellor/X
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Chancellor/Tunnel
Chancellor/X
I thought that Familiar and Stash worked pretty well.
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Chancellor/Tunnel
Chancellor/X
I thought that Familiar and Stash worked pretty well.
Stash for sure, not as sure about Familiar. Counting House sometimes?
I was just being mean to Chancellor for cheap respect.
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Chancellor/Potion is a reasonable opening which gives you a good shot at getting to see your familiar extra-often. Often it's the case that there aren't other cheap terminals you want anyway, and the extra terminal later is worth the possibility of seeing your curser earlier. It's because Familiar is a nonterminal curser.
I don't think Counting House is actually good with Chancellor. Like, the effect "Take all your coppers from the discard" would combo with the effect "Put your deck in the discard", but as they are now, the cards Chancellor and Counting House don't really form a viable combo because they're both terminal.
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Chancellor/Tunnel
Chancellor/X
I've had fun with chancellor when inn's on the board.
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Chancellor/Tunnel
Chancellor/X
I thought that Familiar and Stash worked pretty well.
Stash for sure, not as sure about Familiar. Counting House sometimes?
I was just being mean to Chancellor for cheap respect.
Indecisive Chancellor
+$2
You may put cards from the top of your deck into your discard pile until there are 5 cards remaining in your deck.
You may put your deck into your discard pile.
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severe case of AP chancellor - 3$ - action
+2$
you may discard the top card of your deck. You may repeat this as many times as you like unless doing so would force you to shuffle.
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severe case of AP chancellor - 3$ - action
+2$
you may discard the top card of your deck. You may repeat this as many times as you like unless doing so would force you to shuffle.
So much Tunneling.
(There's a reason I worded the card the way I did.)
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well, yeah, but chancellor needs more combos! that might be too good though.
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well, yeah, but chancellor needs more combos! that might be too good though.
It is still not even half as ridiculous as Rebuild/Tunnel.
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On the other hand, if Rebuild is on the board, an opponent ignoring Tunnels still has a quick route to victory.