Dominion Strategy Forum
Archive => Archive => Innovation Rules Questions => Topic started by: atariman486 on April 05, 2013, 12:58:05 pm
-
See the game log here:
http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201304/05/game-20130405-095109-8c9bbd33.html
On turn 13, I applied the dogma of Machine Tools - Draw and score a card equal in value to the highest card in your score pile. The highest in my pile was a 2, and he had nothing scored. We had an equal number of red factory icons, so the effect was shared, but I would take that to be he has nothing in his score pile so draws and scores nothing. Instead, he drew and scored a 2. It looks like it applied the "your" clause to my score pile even for his sharing.
-
If you have nothing in your score pile, the value of the highest card in your score pile is treated as 0. This means he tried to score a 0 but there were none, so he tried a 1. Presumably that pile was empty too so he scored a 2.
-
Was the [1] pile empty? I think if you have no score pile, the highest value in your score pile is undefined and defaults to 0.
-
This also works for Education: if you have only one card in your score pile, you can return it to draw a card two higher than [ 0 ].
-
Aha! Makes sense. Thanks for the explanations.
-
Outside the context of Innovation, the maximum of the empty set is set to minus infinity often, which would not matter for Machine Tools but for Education.
-
Outside the context of Innovation, the maximum of the empty set is set to minus infinity often, which would not matter for Machine Tools but for Education.
Is the minimum of the empty set positive infinity?
-
Outside the context of Innovation, the maximum of the empty set is set to minus infinity often, which would not matter for Machine Tools but for Education.
Is the minimum of the empty set positive infinity?
That's a sometimes useful definition.
-
Outside the context of Innovation, the maximum of the empty set is set to minus infinity often, which would not matter for Machine Tools but for Education.
That would make Education draw 1's instead of 2's wouldn't it? -(inf)+2= -(inf).
.....the -15 pile is empty
.....the -14 pile is empty
.....
.....the -1 piles is empty
.....the 0 pile is empty
.....there is an age 1 card. Draw it.
-
Yes, by my intuition drawing a [2] with Education would be a bit of a stretch, and quite a bit less geeky. It's just as well to define "no card" as "a \[0\]", of course.
-
For the purposes of Innovation, max({}) = 0. :P
-
That would make Education draw 1's instead of 2's wouldn't it? -(inf)+2= -(inf).
.....the -15 pile is empty
.....the -14 pile is empty
.....
.....the -1 piles is empty
.....the 0 pile is empty
.....there is an age 1 card. Draw it.
Well by that logic, wouldn't it just never resolve? Using -(inf) + 1 = -(inf):
Education says to draw a card of max{{}) = -(inf)
...the -(inf) pile is empty
...the -(inf) pile is empty
...the -(inf) pile is empty
...
-
That would make Education draw 1's instead of 2's wouldn't it? -(inf)+2= -(inf).
.....the -15 pile is empty
.....the -14 pile is empty
.....
.....the -1 piles is empty
.....the 0 pile is empty
.....there is an age 1 card. Draw it.
Well by that logic, wouldn't it just never resolve? Using -(inf) + 1 = -(inf):
Education says to draw a card of max{{}) = -(inf)
...the -(inf) pile is empty
...the -(inf) pile is empty
...the -(inf) pile is empty
...
You have to interpret is as "Draw from the least non-empty pile greater than ..." instead.