Dominion Strategy Forum
Miscellaneous => Other Games => Topic started by: werothegreat on January 09, 2013, 02:57:30 pm
-
I think I'll probably be acquiring a 3DS sometime before October now.
-
Same here. I'd be getting one no matter how the games looked, but the trailer actually has me really excited to play! And a global release means I won't see all the new pokemon beforehand. I'm shamelessly excited about going through the game and seeing new pokemon for the first time. That's never happened.
-
I already have a 3DS. and will probably be picking this up.
I'm dissapointed in the starters though. The grass one is unique but I don't like it, the water one well we've seen frogs a billion times and they're always water type, and the fox is what I'll probably take but its just a new Vulpix.
It'd be nice if they switched the starter types this generation. They could maintain the type Rock Paper Scissors even with Fighting/Psychic/Dark. One day I'll get to pick a ghost type to start.
-
Surprised that they announced gen VI before doing a gen III remake. I guess that will come with gen VI, 3D as well.
I don't have a 3DS yet -- still on DS Lite. But I'll have to pick one up.
I'm dissapointed in the starters though. The grass one is unique but I don't like it, the water one well we've seen frogs a billion times and they're always water type, and the fox is what I'll probably take but its just a new Vulpix.
It'd be nice if they switched the starter types this generation. They could maintain the type Rock Paper Scissors even with Fighting/Psychic/Dark. One day I'll get to pick a ghost type to start.
I'm waiting to see the evolutions first. I'd probably take the fox as well, if only because I like the kitsune concept in general but wasn't really a fan of Vulpix/Ninetales.
I agree that a type change would be nice, but Fighting/Psychic/Dark isn't balanced because Dark is not just resistant to Psychic but fully immune. A workable triangle would be Fighting/Rock/Flying. Two more are Fire/Rock/Steel and Grass/Poison/Ground, but those dip into the original three. There aren't any triangles other than these, I think.
-
Surprised that they announced gen VI before doing a gen III remake. I guess that will come with gen VI, 3D as well.
I don't have a 3DS yet -- still on DS Lite. But I'll have to pick one up.
I'm dissapointed in the starters though. The grass one is unique but I don't like it, the water one well we've seen frogs a billion times and they're always water type, and the fox is what I'll probably take but its just a new Vulpix.
It'd be nice if they switched the starter types this generation. They could maintain the type Rock Paper Scissors even with Fighting/Psychic/Dark. One day I'll get to pick a ghost type to start.
I'm waiting to see the evolutions first. I'd probably take the fox as well, if only because I like the kitsune concept in general but wasn't really a fan of Vulpix/Ninetales.
I agree that a type change would be nice, but Fighting/Psychic/Dark isn't balanced because Dark is not just resistant to Psychic but fully immune. A workable triangle would be Fighting/Rock/Flying. Two more are Fire/Rock/Steel and Grass/Poison/Ground, but those dip into the original three. There aren't any triangles other than these, I think.
Electric/Ground/Flying, which I'd personally like to see done.
-
Surprised that they announced gen VI before doing a gen III remake. I guess that will come with gen VI, 3D as well.
I don't have a 3DS yet -- still on DS Lite. But I'll have to pick one up.
I'm dissapointed in the starters though. The grass one is unique but I don't like it, the water one well we've seen frogs a billion times and they're always water type, and the fox is what I'll probably take but its just a new Vulpix.
It'd be nice if they switched the starter types this generation. They could maintain the type Rock Paper Scissors even with Fighting/Psychic/Dark. One day I'll get to pick a ghost type to start.
I'm waiting to see the evolutions first. I'd probably take the fox as well, if only because I like the kitsune concept in general but wasn't really a fan of Vulpix/Ninetales.
I agree that a type change would be nice, but Fighting/Psychic/Dark isn't balanced because Dark is not just resistant to Psychic but fully immune. A workable triangle would be Fighting/Rock/Flying. Two more are Fire/Rock/Steel and Grass/Poison/Ground, but those dip into the original three. There aren't any triangles other than these, I think.
Electric/Ground/Flying, which I'd personally like to see done.
But that one is also imbalanced, since Ground is immune to Electric, not resistant.
Edit: And Flying is immune to ground... so I guess the problem is that Electric is not immune to Flying.
-
I agree that a type change would be nice, but Fighting/Psychic/Dark isn't balanced because Dark is not just resistant to Psychic but fully immune. A workable triangle would be Fighting/Rock/Flying. Two more are Fire/Rock/Steel and Grass/Poison/Ground, but those dip into the original three. There aren't any triangles other than these, I think.
Here's the list of all the imperfect triangles, id.est., A is very effective against B, B is very effective against C, C is very effective against A. Took me a while to find it out, I'm sure it has been done already, but oh well:
-fire/grass/water
-fire/ice/ground
-fire/steel/rock
-fire/grass/rock
-fire/grass/ground
-water/ground/electric (immunity)
-grass/ground/poison
-grass/rock/ice
-ice/flying/fighting
-grass/rock/flying
-ice/ground/rock
-ice/ground/steel
-grass/rock/flying
-grass/rock/bug
-fighting/rock/flying
-fighting/dark/psychic (immunity)
If you also want to have A is very resistant against B, B is very resistant against C, C is very resistant against A, then you are left with only:
-fire/grass/water
-fire/steel/rock
-grass/ground/poison
-fighting/rock/flying
So, if you don't want to repeat any type, fighting-rock-flying it is!
EDIT: this gets more difficult with dual types. If I was bored enough, I could write a small script to find perfect dual-type triangles, but you know...
-
By the looks of some of the moves in the trailer Chespin may be dark and Fennikin Psychic (at their final evolution) so if Froakie is fighting it could be a reverse type triangle.
-
The speculation I like the most so far is that the region is European and will be influenced by Norse mythology. Consider that the legendaries are a stag and a bird of some sort, and that both of these are among those connected to Yggdrasil:
Creatures live within Yggdrasil, including the wyrm (dragon) Níđhöggr, an unnamed eagle, and the stags Dáinn, Dvalinn, Duneyrr and Duraţrór.
A Nidhogg based Z legendary would be cool.
I quite like both legendaries.
-
Hooray, there are now two 3DS games I'm looking forward to: This in October, and Fire Emblem Awakening in April.
-
So now I need to catch up on 4th gen, 5th gen, and 6th gen when it comes out.
Well then...
-
I'll get this. Up until now, I don't really feel like there has been a reason to get a 3DS (although I preemptively bought one) game-wise. I heard about 6th gen yesterday. And I'm quite excited. I'll probably try to not get any more knowledge of the game before it's released and play it with fresh eyes. Maybe keep myself in the loop regarding mechanic changes, since it would suck to be surprised by something like the physical/special split without knowing it. This mainly has to do with me having read a lot of mechanics before and I hate to "know" stuff that ain't true anymore.
Also, I'm not going to choose the grassawott, and we have a running joke in our group that frogs are bad. And the fire fox seems like the monster Ninetales never was. And I do like my Ninetales.
-
What's a Pokemon?
-
IT'S PIKACHU!!!
-
So here's pretty much my reaction to mega evolutions so far:
GameFreak: We've introduced a new type of evolution: Mega Evolutions! Including Mega Mawile, Ampharos, and Absol!
Me: Wow, so it's a way to give a boost to underpowered Pokémon without giving them a whole new evolution. Sounds like a cool balancing mechanism! Maybe they're be a greater variety of viable Pokémon!
GameFreak: You can only have one mega evolution at a time, though.
Me: Oh. Well, that's not so bad. I didn't really need to have a team of Mawile/Ampharos/Absol/Kangaskhan/Torkoal/Delibird. It'll still help push variety.
GameFreak: And you have to activate mega evolutions in battle so that we can show a cool animation!
Me: Soooo…by the time my Mawile mega-evolves and gets better defensive stats, it'll already be mostly dead. Wait, what?
GameFreak: Mega evolutions are meant to boost a Pokémon's power to legendary status!
Me: So what you're really telling me is that every team is going to consist of five legendaries picked from a pool of 40 Pokémon and then one mega-evolved Pokémon. I guess that…could be worse?
GameFreak: Introducing Mega Garchomp! It has greatly increased Attack and Special Attack stats!
Me: Fuck you, GameFreak. Fuck you.
-
FWIW, the game demo showed that you can mega evolve and attack on the same turn.
I never liked using legendary pokemon because it felt cheap, but there are legendaries who get placed in UU tier too. Saying "legendary" doesn't actually say much.
I'll mostly be favouring new pokemon so Ipprobably won't be using the mega evolution mechanic in my play through.
-
FWIW, the game demo showed that you can mega evolve and attack on the same turn.
Sure, but that still means a slow Pokémon takes a hit before its stats get boosted.
I never liked using legendary pokemon because it felt cheap, but there are legendaries who get placed in UU tier too. Saying "legendary" doesn't actually say much.
That's an artifact of the bizarre way that Smogonites play Pokémon.
Maybe bizarre is too extreme, but it's certainly not how GameFreak thinks the game is meant to be played. It seems natural, though, right? Six Pokémon fit on an in-game team and Single Battles are the de facto standard format, so 6v6 Single Battles should be the normal way to play, right? And yet, you'll notice that every Battle Tower-esque format in the game uses 3v3 for Single Battles. All the console battling games do too. Huh.
When you have six Pokémon on your team, you have a very good chance of having a Pokémon to "counter" whatever your opponent brings out. Teams are built around this very idea of covering all your defensive bases. As a result, 6v6 Single Battles are crazy switch-fests. You and your opponent dance around each other, trying to whittle down the Pokémon or two that stand in the way of your sweeper, which you then bring in and clean house. In a 3v3 battle, you can't afford to do that. But in 6v6 battles, this tends to skew in favor of Pokémon that fulfill one specific role very well, leaving more well-rounded Pokémon in the dust. That's one of the two reasons that certain legendaries don't see play in OU.
Enter Stealth Rock. Because switching is so incredibly prevalent in 6v6 Singles, entry hazards are very powerful. Stealth Rock is the quickest to set up and also the strongest, and as a result almost every team has a Pokémon to set up Stealth Rock. Stealth Rock just destroys Pokémon that are weak to Rock-type attacks. This means that several entire types of Pokémon are rare or non-existent in OU. (It also reinforces the whole switch-to-a-counter game, since there are fewer bases to cover.) That's the other reason that certain legendaries aren't used in OU.
Entei is a perfect example. In a 3v3 environment, Entei is a beast. It hits like a truck, can take a beating, and is a good bit faster than the average Pokémon. In Smogon and Serebii's 6v6 game, it can't even cut it in UU. It's a sick joke.
-
Stealth Rock is one of the biggest reasons I can't take competitive Pokemon seriously at all anymore. It has no (good) counters, makes a ton of monsters non-viable, and it's on lots of monsters that were already good without it. The fact that they didn't nerf it at all on Gen 5 is telling that Game Freak doesn't understand the core game at a high level.
-
Stealth Rock is one of the biggest reasons I can't take competitive Pokemon seriously at all anymore. It has no (good) counters, makes a ton of monsters non-viable, and it's on lots of monsters that were already good without it. The fact that they didn't nerf it at all on Gen 5 is telling that Game Freak doesn't understand the core game at a high level.
Wow, it's like you didn't even read my post. GameFreak doesn't care about the 6v6 metagame. In their intended 3v3 metagame, Stealth Rock is completely reasonable. You'd pretty much only have it on a team that revolved around PHazing.
-
Stealth Rock is one of the biggest reasons I can't take competitive Pokemon seriously at all anymore. It has no (good) counters, makes a ton of monsters non-viable, and it's on lots of monsters that were already good without it. The fact that they didn't nerf it at all on Gen 5 is telling that Game Freak doesn't understand the core game at a high level.
Wow, it's like you didn't even read my post. GameFreak doesn't care about the 6v6 metagame. In their intended 3v3 metagame, Stealth Rock is completely reasonable. You'd pretty much only have it on a team that revolved around PHazing.
I read your post. I agree with it. That doesn't make Stealth Rock any less ridiculous, I'm sorry. People have complained about it since Gen 4 and they didn't address it at all.
-
I'd be getting it, but I stopped after I lost my good pokemon on white.
I feel so guilty about it though, maybe I'll go for it anyway.
-
Stealth Rock is one of the biggest reasons I can't take competitive Pokemon seriously at all anymore. It has no (good) counters, makes a ton of monsters non-viable, and it's on lots of monsters that were already good without it. The fact that they didn't nerf it at all on Gen 5 is telling that Game Freak doesn't understand the core game at a high level.
Wow, it's like you didn't even read my post. GameFreak doesn't care about the 6v6 metagame. In their intended 3v3 metagame, Stealth Rock is completely reasonable. You'd pretty much only have it on a team that revolved around PHazing.
I read your post. I agree with it. That doesn't make Stealth Rock any less ridiculous, I'm sorry. People have complained about it since Gen 4 and they didn't address it at all.
Agreed. But that's because it's only overpowered in a metagame that they don't support. I agree that it should be less swingy, though. Like maybe it could top out at dealing 1/4 of a target's HP in damage rather than 1/2? Perhaps they'll change it in 6th gen. Fingers crossed.
-
I think the best way to handle it (aside from weakening it) is to make it wear off over time and also add similar attacks of other elements, maybe something that can actually hurt Steel.
I heard Steel is losing Ghost and Dark resistance; that's a step in the right direction.
-
I think the best way to handle it (aside from weakening it) is to make it wear off over time and also add similar attacks of other elements, maybe something that can actually hurt Steel.
I heard Steel is losing Ghost and Dark resistance; that's a step in the right direction.
Yeah. I really wish they'd tone down Water types. Three types are strong against Water attacks: Grass, Dragon, and Water itself. Grass and Dragon are weak against Ice, which EVERY SINGLE WATER TYPE HAS ACCESS TO. So if you want something strong against Water, you need your own Water type. It's maddening.
-
I read they're also adding a "Fairy" type, right? Anybody know how that will affect the balance? I stopped playing after Blue, so even Dark and Steel are exotic and unfamiliar to me.
It does look really cool though.
-
FWIW, the game demo showed that you can mega evolve and attack on the same turn.
Sure, but that still means a slow Pokémon takes a hit before its stats get boosted.
I never liked using legendary pokemon because it felt cheap, but there are legendaries who get placed in UU tier too. Saying "legendary" doesn't actually say much.
That's an artifact of the bizarre way that Smogonites play Pokémon.
Maybe bizarre is too extreme, but it's certainly not how GameFreak thinks the game is meant to be played. It seems natural, though, right? Six Pokémon fit on an in-game team and Single Battles are the de facto standard format, so 6v6 Single Battles should be the normal way to play, right? And yet, you'll notice that every Battle Tower-esque format in the game uses 3v3 for Single Battles. All the console battling games do too. Huh.
When you have six Pokémon on your team, you have a very good chance of having a Pokémon to "counter" whatever your opponent brings out. Teams are built around this very idea of covering all your defensive bases. As a result, 6v6 Single Battles are crazy switch-fests. You and your opponent dance around each other, trying to whittle down the Pokémon or two that stand in the way of your sweeper, which you then bring in and clean house. In a 3v3 battle, you can't afford to do that. But in 6v6 battles, this tends to skew in favor of Pokémon that fulfill one specific role very well, leaving more well-rounded Pokémon in the dust. That's one of the two reasons that certain legendaries don't see play in OU.
Enter Stealth Rock. Because switching is so incredibly prevalent in 6v6 Singles, entry hazards are very powerful. Stealth Rock is the quickest to set up and also the strongest, and as a result almost every team has a Pokémon to set up Stealth Rock. Stealth Rock just destroys Pokémon that are weak to Rock-type attacks. This means that several entire types of Pokémon are rare or non-existent in OU. (It also reinforces the whole switch-to-a-counter game, since there are fewer bases to cover.) That's the other reason that certain legendaries aren't used in OU.
Entei is a perfect example. In a 3v3 environment, Entei is a beast. It his like a truck, can take a beating, and is a good bit faster than the average Pokémon. In Smogon and Serebii's 6v6 game, it can't even cut it in UU. It's a sick joke.
I forget how it worked in the demo so maybe I'm wrong, but I thought that the "mega evolution" would have highest priority, similar to using an item.
Interesting point on 3v3 vs 6v6. I'd never considered that before.
FWIW, I've never actually participated in competitive battling though I have some interest in it at a semi-academic level.
-
I read they're also adding a "Fairy" type, right? Anybody know how that will affect the balance? I stopped playing after Blue, so even Dark and Steel are exotic and unfamiliar to me.
It does look really cool though.
Faster to just link:
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Fairy_(type)
-
I am pretty sure the fairy type was added largely for balance, and the minor changes to other types are there for the same reason.
I've been very interested in the academic side of competitive battling for years but only actually delved into it briefly.
-
I read they're also adding a "Fairy" type, right? Anybody know how that will affect the balance? I stopped playing after Blue, so even Dark and Steel are exotic and unfamiliar to me.
It does look really cool though.
Fairy beats Dragon, iirc. If you remembered much about blue, Dragon didn't have as many weaknesses as it ought to.
-
well, in 1st gen it was a lot worse, because the only Dragon type offensive move was Dragon Rage.
Really 1st gen is just so horribly broken, both in terms of Pokemon balance and programming.
-
I think 6v6 is perfectly fine. I mean, there's 50 pokemon in OU and as many in UU, so you have 100 potential team members, which is more than the number of fully-evolved pokemon in Gen1. Stealth Rock is really important, but it's not OP. It's not that hard to play around. I really wish Fairy type was Light-type instead. So much more flavorful.
-
Isn't Psychic type called Light in the Japanese version though? That'd cause unnecessary confusion I'd think.
I've never much been a fan of competitive pokemon battles, so I don't care too much about whether they balance things or not - what I care most about is that the single player game is fun and interesting, ideally with difficulty selection because, man, have pokemon games been easy up to now for an adult, which is a relatively large portion of their playerbase (actually I did find the first gym in Black to be pretty tough on my first playthrough, but things got much easier beyond that).
-
I think 6v6 is perfectly fine. I mean, there's 50 pokemon in OU and as many in UU, so you have 100 potential team members, which is more than the number of fully-evolved pokemon in Gen1. Stealth Rock is really important, but it's not OP. It's not that hard to play around.
Sure, it's perfectly fine. Obviously lots of people like it or they wouldn't be playing it. It's just weird that it's the de facto standard way to play for English-speaking players. It's a really skewed game.
-
Isn't Psychic type called Light in the Japanese version though? That'd cause unnecessary confusion I'd think.
No, Psychic in Japanese is the Esper type. Nothing at all to do with Light. That is all just a pernicious myth about complement-to-Dark-types-speculation.
I think Pokemon needs to have a mass extinction event. Maybe the games can address human-induced mass extinction via greenhouse gas emissions and deforestation! Or maybe that's too radical for what is ostensibly a children's game (still, never too young to learn...).
I really wish Fairy type was Light-type instead. So much more flavorful.
Again, you'd have to go into the definitions of the Japanese names for the types. Light type does not make sense from the Japanese perspective because the Dark type in Japanese is literally the "Evil" type. While in English there's a pretty strong association between evil with darkness, there's not as strong of an association between good and light (or at least, we're less likely to think of light in abstract terms of goodness).
-
I play the TCG competitively and the XY rules leaked from Japan change the game like crazy.
The first player can't attack, making an already $100+ card even more expensive (though everything else about that is good), making a power card be on a flip, so it's more luck based, and a reprint of an old card with a new name.
-
Isn't Psychic type called Light in the Japanese version though? That'd cause unnecessary confusion I'd think.
No, Psychic in Japanese is the Esper type. Nothing at all to do with Light. That is all just a pernicious myth about complement-to-Dark-types-speculation.
I think Pokemon needs to have a mass extinction event. Maybe the games can address human-induced mass extinction via greenhouse gas emissions and deforestation! Or maybe that's too radical for what is ostensibly a children's game (still, never too young to learn...).
I really wish Fairy type was Light-type instead. So much more flavorful.
Again, you'd have to go into the definitions of the Japanese names for the types. Light type does not make sense from the Japanese perspective because the Dark type in Japanese is literally the "Evil" type. While in English there's a pretty strong association between evil with darkness, there's not as strong of an association between good and light (or at least, we're less likely to think of light in abstract terms of goodness).
I recall reading that "fairy" doesn't have the same connotations in Japan as it does here. That is, we think "fairy" and we think, "cute and feminine", but in Japanese it's more along the lines of "mythical" or "magical". Something like that. Not sure if it's true, or if I'm even remembering correctly.
-
But look at sylveon. Though I don't find it to be so, it's obviously intending to be more cute and feminine than mythical. Look at the ribbons and the horrible all-encompassing pinkness. Espeon seems more magical, glaceon more mythical, and flareon cuter.
And 6v6 is a lot better than 3v3 because it leaves much less up to simply match-up, where a game is decided before it even starts. There's still a remnant of that in the 6v6 system, but it's definitely toned down to a tolerable point.
As you said "When you have six Pokémon on your team, you have a very good chance of having a Pokémon to "counter" whatever your opponent brings out. " and I think that makes the game come down to more than luck, which I think is a good thing. I can understand that entry hazards might overcome that good point for you, though. It's a hard choice.
-
And 6v6 is a lot better than 3v3 because it leaves much less up to simply match-up, where a game is decided before it even starts. There's still a remnant of that in the 6v6 system, but it's definitely toned down to a tolerable point.
As you said "When you have six Pokémon on your team, you have a very good chance of having a Pokémon to "counter" whatever your opponent brings out. " and I think that makes the game come down to more than luck, which I think is a good thing. I can understand that entry hazards might overcome that good point for you, though. It's a hard choice.
The "comes down to luck" is a valid point, but the general fix to that is to do what the console battling games have always done. You and your opponent see the six Pokémon on each other's teams, then you each simultaneously choose three to battle with. It's a really good system. It seems like it could still just come down to luck of the draw, but it doesn't really play out that way in practice. The sideboard makes a huge difference.
-
Xerneas is a fairy type though, and it doesn't seem cute or feminine to me.
Sylveon hits "magical".
-
Xerneas is a fairy type though, and it doesn't seem cute or feminine to me.
Sylveon hits "magical".
I mean, you have to realize the marketing aspect here. Some Pokemon are designed to be kawaii~, others derpy, and others badass.
-
Xerneas is a fairy type though, and it doesn't seem cute or feminine to me.
Sylveon hits "magical".
I mean, you have to realize the marketing aspect here. Some Pokemon are designed to be kawaii~, others derpy, and others badass.
And some are designed to look like ice cream cones.
-
Xerneas is a fairy type though, and it doesn't seem cute or feminine to me.
Sylveon hits "magical".
I mean, you have to realize the marketing aspect here. Some Pokemon are designed to be kawaii~, others derpy, and others badass.
Oh, I know. I'm still wondering if what I read was correct though, re: connotations of "fairy" in Japan.
-
Anyone following the leaks?
At first I was somewhat disappointed in the designs of all 3 final starter evos (and likewise for many of the new pokemon) but I'm thinking that the photos might not do justice to the designs. In particular, the 3D doesn't look like it translates well to photos.
I'm also a bit sad that apparently only Charizard has two mega evos, out of the Kanto starters. I guess it's the fan favourite though.
The evolution for Bunnelby is hilarious.
I am extremely intrigued by the nondescript Rock/Fairy and I hope it ends up as an epic Gen VI pseudo-legendary.
Edit: but it looks like that one is a single stager... now highly intrigued by the steel/fairy keys pokemon. Also this dragon slug guy!
-
I don't think the pictures have been confirmed, especially since when I searched I saw multiple sets. And what rock/fairy are you talking about?
-
I don't think the pictures have been confirmed, especially since when I searched I saw multiple sets. And what rock/fairy are you talking about?
Here is an image. (http://i.imgur.com/2WbQysR.jpg)
-
I don't think the pictures have been confirmed, especially since when I searched I saw multiple sets. And what rock/fairy are you talking about?
Here is an image. (http://i.imgur.com/2WbQysR.jpg)
So...torn...after seeing the final starter evos (not a big fan :-\) I told myself I wouldn't look at any more spoilers. I've been looking forward to this being the first game since like gen 2 that I could go through the game and discover pokemon I've never seen...but I want to know....
-
(Sorry about the double post)
Are people planning on getting X or Y? After the game comes out, we should swap friend info! :D
I tend to get the "secondary" game in the set (aka Silver, Sapphire, Leaf Green, White, White 2) so I've been planning on getting Y, but my mind isn't completely made up yet. I like Xerneas a bit better than Yveltal, but I think I like Mega Mewtwo Y (and maybe Charizard Y, though I probably won't pick Charmander) better, so it's a bit of a tough call.
I really, really, really hope that they have dual megaevolutions for all 3 Kanto starters rather than just Charizard. That would just be frustrating and stupid.
-
How much do you want to be spoiled then?
I've already pre-ordered X. I like the concept for Xerneas so much more than I do for Yveltal (Life vs. Death). Yveltal is cool though. I don't have much of a set pattern for the series.
I had Red to start, and I don't remember a particular reason for that. My sister got Blue.
We both got Yellow, I think.
I got Gold, she got Silver. I picked Gold because she preferred Silver.
Skipped the third gen, but I got Emerald after gen IV came out (I think I made it to Victory Road and then got lazy and stopped).
I got Pearl, sister got Diamond. Again, her choice.
I got Soul Silver because I had Gold before.
Black, sister got White.
Black 2, because I had Black.
I guess my pattern is "the one my sister doesn't prefer." I don't think she has plans for gen VI though; I don't think she even finished White.
As far as starters go, I think they are all alright. Chespin was my favourite first stage and I'm still a little torn on his last stage. It's growing on me. But there is another leaked grass type that I really like and I want to see what it evolves into.
From the leaks, it seems like there aren't that many brand new pokemon until somewhat late in the game. If you haven't played since Gen II, are you familiar with pokemon since then?
On dual mega evolutions: It's pretty much confirmed that Charizard is the only Kanto to get two. There are X and Y versions of Charizard's stone, but the others are not labelled that way.
The grass type I'm interested in is a Grass/Ghost pumpkin-bat that probably has an evolution.
I'm also intrigued by the Steel/Fairy Klefki, a keyring pokemon that presumably steals keys. I think it is adorable.
One of the newer leaks is a dragon type named Goomy that evolves at least once (into Sliggoo) and quite possibly twice. Lots of speculation that it is this generation's pseudo-legendary, and although it learns many water type moves and has Hydration, there are also many hoping that it becomes the first Dragon/Poison type. Image here (http://i.imgur.com/5jxFcH3.jpg).
Finally, there is a bizarre Water/Rock type named Barbaracle. It is so weird that I go from hating it back to loving it.
-
From the leaks, it seems like there aren't that many brand new pokemon until somewhat late in the game. If you haven't played since Gen II, are you familiar with pokemon since then?
Ooh yeah. My point is that all of the other games came out in Japan first, so I had spoilers well ahead of time. Since this game is released simultaneously in the US and Japan, there aren't complete, official spoilers ahead of time. We're getting leaks now, but it's a short enough amount of time that I can hold off until the game's released. And I think it's worth it to me to create some sense of awe in my initial playthrough. :)
That said, I read your spoilers. :P I was looking through leaks last night (as a last hurrah) and saw Klefki (love it) and Barbaracle (SO ugly, and man I am really not picky when it comes to pokemon...) and the starters' final evos. Goomy and the pumpkin-bat sound highly intriguing! So does the Rock/Fairy you mentioned last night.
-
If you want leaks, there is a ton of info here from a guy who's been sharing details over on /vp/:
http://imgur.com/a/jiahd
http://imgur.com/a/7aohL
-
(Sorry about the double post)
Are people planning on getting X or Y?
Depends one the exclusives. Right now I'm leaning toward X.
After the game comes out, we should swap friend info! :D
Good idea!
I really, really, really hope that they have dual megaevolutions for all 3 Kanto starters rather than just Charizard. That would just be frustrating and stupid.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but only Charizard has two. I'm glad one of them is Fire/Dragon, though. When Mega Charizard Y was revealed (without any mention of the 'Y'), I thought it was a huge wasted opportunity that it was still Fire/Flying.
-
Here's an awesome video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4vuGUoWVW8). I can't guarantee, but I'm pretty sure it is spoiler free. It just shows how nice the world is in all its 3D glory. I particularly like the look of the caves... man, I bet I'm going to get lost in them.
-
So apparently in Pokemon X and Y you can get a pimped out Safari Zone by having lots of friends who play the games. Well, we might as well all add each other anyway. Here's my 3DS friend code. I'll add anyone here who adds me back.
0318-7048-3073
-
So apparently in Pokemon X and Y you can get a pimped out Safari Zone by having lots of friends who play the games. Well, we might as well all add each other anyway. Here's my 3DS friend code. I'll add anyone here who adds me back.
0318-7048-3073
Will do so later, probably some time tomorrow. Also quite interested in collecting Vivillons. It's a gimmick, but it's a really fun and clever one. For more info, check out this album (http://imgur.com/a/0Qt5N/).
-
jsh, still haven't added you, but I really will do so later.
Spent a fair portion of the long weekend (Canadian Thanksgiving!) playing Pokemon. I try to explore carefully though, so I travel slowly. Haven't even gotten to the second gym yet and I've caught almost as many pokemon as I did through all of Black 2. I tend to skip catching common pokemon, but since this was a worldwide release I have less knowledge of what things are rare so I'm actually just catching everything. Also, my main party of pokemon are all in the mid-late 20s already. Exp. All really makes levelling easier, but I'm not going to turn it off because the game is still easy without it and it just takes more grinding. Grinding doesn't appeal to me so I'm not going to pretend like turning it off actually makes the game harder -- just slower. Moreover, I can carry random low level pokemon with me to passively level up and evolve. :P
Also, I got Polar form Vivillon.
-
Triple post! My Friend Code is 0748-2612-6651. I am still too lazy to add anyone right now, but I swear I will do it soon, for certain quantities of soon.
-
My Friend Code is 5412-9998-4485. I'm registering jsh357 and eHalcyon now.
Game is good so far. Just beat the 5th gym because I'm slow like that. I'm loving most of the changes they've made so far, though.
-
My Friend Code is 5412-9998-4485. I'm registering jsh357 and eHalcyon now.
Game is good so far. Just beat the 5th gym because I'm slow like that. I'm loving most of the changes they've made so far, though.
Haven't even beaten the second gym yet, but my main party are all in the 30s now. Bagon has to catch up though.
-
I just finished gym 5. No grinding and all my Pokemon are at level 40 (well above the gym leader). Get used to being OP.
-
I just finished gym 5. No grinding and all my Pokemon are at level 40 (well above the gym leader). Get used to being OP.
Do the gyms come more quickly from the 2nd onward? Or did I just dawdle a lot on my way to the second gym?
-
I just finished gym 5. No grinding and all my Pokemon are at level 40 (well above the gym leader). Get used to being OP.
Do the gyms come more quickly from the 2nd onward? Or did I just dawdle a lot on my way to the second gym?
There is a massively huge gap between the first and second gyms. The others have some space between them, but not nearly as much. (Through the fifth gym, anyway.)
-
My friend code is 0662 3781 5530. Adding you guys pronto!
-
So I've spent most of my internet outage (well spare time during it) playing Pokemon X. I finished the game about two days ago.
So... who worked out Lysandre was the leader of Team Flare? I think that one was pretty easy to guess to be honest, what with the red hair, talking about beauty and after you get to gym 4, the Lysandre Cafe with Team Flare around. And who worked out Diantha was the Champion? I think that was a little less obvious. I actually guessed it while in the shower after defeating the 7th Gym, when I realised she mentioned battling the next time we'd meet, quite a while back in the game.
I've been talking to a friend who likes pokemon but doesn't have any of the more recent games about this, and while doing so I've realised the games have pretty much improved on everything that made Pokemon fun, while downplaying some of the dumber features (Triple Battles anyone?)
I'm adding everyone whose put Friend Codes in the thread. Mine is 3523-3415-0449. I'm liable to spam O-powers at you if I see you online, by the way. If you feel like doing the same back, I'm not gonna complain (but I'm also not likely to stop if you don't :P)
-
I so wish I had the game, but that's life. I just have to follow the competitive meta instead, which is also quite interesting.
-
Oh, so according to Serebii, if you have the EXP share on, all of your pokemon gain 50% EXP, not just 1/N for a team of N pokemon... I kind of wish I didn't turn it off. Sounds like you could quickly get a big team that's all overlevelled using that. I mean I ended up with a team of six level ~60-62 pokemon after beating the Champion, with no (intentional) grinding, so if I knew EXP share worked like that they'd have likely ended up closer to level 70.
-
Also, if anyone could tell me the pokemon which appear on my Friend Safari (once you've gotten that far) I'd be quite interested to find out.
-
I know you can at least get starters. The interesting thing about it is that (apparently) Pokemon caught in the safari have at least two max IVs and a high chance of having Hidden Abilities. I am only at Gym 6 at the moment so I have not used this at all. Got a shiny Escavalier, though!
-
I know you can at least get starters. The interesting thing about it is that (apparently) Pokemon caught in the safari have at least two max IVs and a high chance of having Hidden Abilities. I am only at Gym 6 at the moment so I have not used this at all. Got a shiny Escavalier, though!
Oh, if that's true, it'd explain why I keep seeing pokemon with similar (high) HP of the same species! One of my other friends had both Wartortle and Fennekin's evolved form in his, which was pretty cool (and made for some nice Wonder Trade pokemon I guess). I was wondering explicitly about my own, though.
-
I know you can at least get starters. The interesting thing about it is that (apparently) Pokemon caught in the safari have at least two max IVs and a high chance of having Hidden Abilities. I am only at Gym 6 at the moment so I have not used this at all. Got a shiny Escavalier, though!
Are shinies more common now, or is that just a rumour?
In all my games, I've only ever run into two (non-event/scripted) shinies. The first one was a Tauros which died to a crit. The second one was a Wooper, which I caught. Both were in SoulSilver.
I'm really interested in what Vivillon forms you guys have. After I have Fly I'm probably gonna start grinding a bunch out to look for others on the GTS.
Wonder Trade is pretty fun. I'm starting to catch things I've already caught just to push them onto Wonder Trade. Mostly rare-ish things that might make some strangers smile.
-
I know you can at least get starters. The interesting thing about it is that (apparently) Pokemon caught in the safari have at least two max IVs and a high chance of having Hidden Abilities. I am only at Gym 6 at the moment so I have not used this at all. Got a shiny Escavalier, though!
Are shinies more common now, or is that just a rumour?
In all my games, I've only ever run into two (non-event/scripted) shinies. The first one was a Tauros which died to a crit. The second one was a Wooper, which I caught. Both were in SoulSilver.
I'm really interested in what Vivillon forms you guys have. After I have Fly I'm probably gonna start grinding a bunch out to look for others on the GTS.
Wonder Trade is pretty fun. I'm starting to catch things I've already caught just to push them onto Wonder Trade. Mostly rare-ish things that might make some strangers smile.
I dunno if anyone's hacked to see if shinies are more common, but 2 other people I'm playing with have found one so I would guess so.
-
I have yet to see a single shiny. As far as I know, nobody has hacked the game yet. So considering the encounter rate for Shinies has been 1/213 (outside of Pokeradar, which may well retain it's increased Shiny finding functionality), or 1/8192 if you prefer, which is low enough to likely not have a good grasp on the estimate of, I wouldn't say it's likely at this point that it's been changed.
-
I think I would like it if shinies were in general a *little* less rare, but to compensate there would be multiple shiny forms. So maybe the chance of an orange-flame Litwick is still the same as before, but there is an additional small chance of a red-flame or yellow-flame Litwick. Shiny Litwicks are now three times more likely to be found, but each individual form is still rare. I suppose that this could might not be feasible to do on a wide scale because of all the extra sprites... OTOH, they're using 3D models now and some parts of the models could probably be coloured programatically.
I mean, I wasn't at all interested in Vivillon at first. I wasn't even interested when the Polar form leaked early (I thought it was like the Shellos thing). But with 18 or more forms... yeah, that's really cool. More variation within species is exciting.
-
I think I would like it if shinies were in general a *little* less rare, but to compensate there would be multiple shiny forms. So maybe the chance of an orange-flame Litwick is still the same as before, but there is an additional small chance of a red-flame or yellow-flame Litwick. Shiny Litwicks are now three times more likely to be found, but each individual form is still rare. I suppose that this could might not be feasible to do on a wide scale because of all the extra sprites... OTOH, they're using 3D models now and some parts of the models could probably be coloured programatically.
I mean, I wasn't at all interested in Vivillon at first. I wasn't even interested when the Polar form leaked early (I thought it was like the Shellos thing). But with 18 or more forms... yeah, that's really cool. More variation within species is exciting.
I approve of this idea.
-
The Vivilion's are pretty cool. Maybe I should get some to put up on (Wonder) Trades.
(ps the Electabuzz I traded you JSH was from your own Friend Safari, so it'll probably be pretty decent IV wise. Plus I think Electabuzz is cool so that's a factor ::). If you don't care for it, well, that's fine too.)
-
I wasn't sure what you wanted, haha. I need to breed some of my starters for people who try to randomly trade with me.
-
That's fine, wasn't after anything in particular :P. I dunno, maybe this gen I'll actually try and complete the pokedex (excluding event pokemon)... would take a while though.
-
The Vivilion's are pretty cool. Maybe I should get some to put up on (Wonder) Trades.
What form do you have?
I'm trying to complete my pokedex this time around. Haven't done that since Gen I or II.
-
I completed the Dex in Gen 4... huge waste of time. I'll probably just work on this one until I get bored with it.
-
The Vivilion's are pretty cool. Maybe I should get some to put up on (Wonder) Trades.
What form do you have?
(http://www.serebii.net/xy/pokemon/666-g.png)
And I'll offer it as a trade to anyone who might want it :).
-
I like the Garden form a lot, because green is my favourite colour. I'm decking out my character in green as well. Still need a green hat.
-
I think I would like it if shinies were in general a *little* less rare, but to compensate there would be multiple shiny forms. So maybe the chance of an orange-flame Litwick is still the same as before, but there is an additional small chance of a red-flame or yellow-flame Litwick. Shiny Litwicks are now three times more likely to be found, but each individual form is still rare. I suppose that this could might not be feasible to do on a wide scale because of all the extra sprites... OTOH, they're using 3D models now and some parts of the models could probably be coloured programatically.
I mean, I wasn't at all interested in Vivillon at first. I wasn't even interested when the Polar form leaked early (I thought it was like the Shellos thing). But with 18 or more forms... yeah, that's really cool. More variation within species is exciting.
I approve of this idea.
There is apparently a rare glitch that is making some pokemon lose their colour:
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/138edd57e29523a0716d536b1824e1be/tumblr_muvpzzrVK81r8sc3ro1_500.jpg)
It can be fixed just by reloading the save file, and apparently GF is working on a patch for both this and a couple other glitches (like the big Lumiose City (http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/696959-pokemon-x/67488169) one). But this Albino glitch shows that it would not take extra images or texture files or what have you to do extra shiny sets. Even if they couldn't do a bunch of different colours, just making albinism into a feature would be pretty neat.
-
Hey, DSell, you need to either finish the game or come online at the same time as me. There's a 1/4 chance (assuming Serebii's data is correct and pokemon chances are essentially random) that we have exactly the same friend safari, and I wanna find out if we do.
-
Hey, DSell, you need to either finish the game or come online at the same time as me. There's a 1/4 chance (assuming Serebii's data is correct and pokemon chances are essentially random) that we have exactly the same friend safari, and I wanna find out if we do.
A terrible, terrible thing happened... I lost my save data after putting in 30+ hours. At the moment, I am actually letting my roommate play through the game (in French!) at which point I'll start again. I was pretty torn up but I absolutely will start again and get back through it. I have no idea what that'll do to my friend safari data though!
-
It shouldn't change it - it's based on your Friend Code, which is tied to your system, not your game, I believe.
How did you lose the data though? That sucks.
-
It shouldn't change it - it's based on your Friend Code, which is tied to your system, not your game, I believe.
How did you lose the data though? That sucks.
Oh good! That's a relief.
The internet (and my own faulty understanding of save states, I guess) led me to believe that unlike former generations, you could get around the only-one-save-file issue by redownloading the game onto another SD card. I did this for my roommate since I had a busy spell where there was no way I could play, and when I went to pick it up again the other day my save data was lost. Since he's already put some time into it I'm letting him play through so we don't lose both save files, but yeah. It sucks a lot. And it's totally my own fault for not researching the topic further.
-
If you're going to reset when you play your own game, you should try setting your DS region to something exotic like Singapore or Hawaii or Madagascar so you can get one of the extra rare Vivillon. You can change the region back after the game starts. I wish I had done that. :P
Note that this has practical benefits -- Vivillon are extremely good trade fodder. The pattern I have, Polar, is like the fourth most common but I still managed to get a bunch of version exclusives and starters with them. It's spectacular.
-
If you're going to reset when you play your own game, you should try setting your DS region to something exotic like Singapore or Hawaii or Madagascar so you can get one of the extra rare Vivillon. You can change the region back after the game starts. I wish I had done that. :P
Note that this has practical benefits -- Vivillon are extremely good trade fodder. The pattern I have, Polar, is like the fourth most common but I still managed to get a bunch of version exclusives and starters with them. It's spectacular.
This is a good idea! But does Hawaii have a unique form?
-
I have caught 416 and seen 467 at this point, so I can probably trade people things if they need them. At this point it's all just grinding to evolve (and getting BP to buy evolution items, which involved training a few solid team members, which involves tedious breeding and EV training...)
I don't know why I put myself through these things.
-
I'm aiming to complete the 'dex, but the more I think the more I realise I'm going to have serious trouble with a lot of things. Gen 3 legendaries for a start might be pretty tough to get (I don't have a gen 3 game, at least not a pirated one) since anyone who can transfer Gen 3 legendaries over can get most of the gen 4 and gen 5 ones on the way as well. And don't even get me started on the event pokemon...
I suppose maybe if I do something like, attach an ability capsule, or try trading some BP intensive evolutions around, like a Porygon2 holding a Dubious Disk, I might just get somewhere, but otherwise, it'll probably come down to sweet talking people online, I suppose.
-
If you're going to reset when you play your own game, you should try setting your DS region to something exotic like Singapore or Hawaii or Madagascar so you can get one of the extra rare Vivillon. You can change the region back after the game starts. I wish I had done that. :P
Note that this has practical benefits -- Vivillon are extremely good trade fodder. The pattern I have, Polar, is like the fourth most common but I still managed to get a bunch of version exclusives and starters with them. It's spectacular.
This is a good idea! But does Hawaii have a unique form?
Yeah, it has the Ocean Pattern. Check out this map:
http://imgur.com/a/0Qt5N/ (http://imgur.com/a/0Qt5N/)
Judging just on what I've seen on the GTS during my Vivillon hunts, the patterns from approximately least common to most common are:
Elegant (purple)
Modern (red)
High Plains (orange)
Polar (dark blue with snow)
Continental (yellow and black)
Marine (cyan)
Garden (green)
River (tan and teal)
And then everything else is rare enough that I don't really have a handle on them. I've seen a few of each of them but they're all quite rare. I think the ones I've seen the least of are Archipelago and Sandstorm.
If you're up for experimentation, it might be interesting to set your location to far-flung places on the map where the pattern hasn't yet been confirmed, just to see what you receive. Power through the game and trade a Scatterbug to someone (like me! ;) ) and see if you can discover new patterns! :D
I'm aiming to complete the 'dex, but the more I think the more I realise I'm going to have serious trouble with a lot of things. Gen 3 legendaries for a start might be pretty tough to get (I don't have a gen 3 game, at least not a pirated one) since anyone who can transfer Gen 3 legendaries over can get most of the gen 4 and gen 5 ones on the way as well. And don't even get me started on the event pokemon...
I suppose maybe if I do something like, attach an ability capsule, or try trading some BP intensive evolutions around, like a Porygon2 holding a Dubious Disk, I might just get somewhere, but otherwise, it'll probably come down to sweet talking people online, I suppose.
I have a copy of Emerald and a DS Lite to transfer up into Pearl, but Emerald is unfinished (I got it used after fourth gen) and the internal battery has run dry so I don't know how bad that is. I know it means clock-based events no longer trigger, I'm just not sure if that would hamper collection of the regis there.
But there is also a high probability of a gen III remake or sequel. Yeah unlike with original gen I and II games, it is possible to trade up from gen III all the way to V (and with Pokebank, to VI) but GBA cartridges are old and not everyone has access to the DS.
I think the main event pokemon I'm missing is Deoxys. There was an event for it a while back (in the summer) but I missed it because my DS Lite's wireless functionality is extremely weak and I'm not able to get it to find the mystery gift at EB Games anymore.
-
This list is even better:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AnK7UlEL3WjddGw5REdFOV9CWWZ6MFpkRHZxSG5qa0E#gid=0
Edit:
Looking at the list...
Monsoon has very few locations -- Hong Kong, Taiwan, Okinawa and a couple places in India. Ocean is only one region in France and Hawaii. Sandstorm, Savanna, Icy Snow and Tundra also look quite sparse.
-
I love the look of Ocean. Love it. Sun, Marine, Monsoon, Icy Snow, and Tundra are great as well.
-
I'm aiming to complete the 'dex, but the more I think the more I realise I'm going to have serious trouble with a lot of things. Gen 3 legendaries for a start might be pretty tough to get (I don't have a gen 3 game, at least not a pirated one) since anyone who can transfer Gen 3 legendaries over can get most of the gen 4 and gen 5 ones on the way as well. And don't even get me started on the event pokemon...
I suppose maybe if I do something like, attach an ability capsule, or try trading some BP intensive evolutions around, like a Porygon2 holding a Dubious Disk, I might just get somewhere, but otherwise, it'll probably come down to sweet talking people online, I suppose.
I have a copy of Emerald and a DS Lite to transfer up into Pearl, but Emerald is unfinished (I got it used after fourth gen) and the internal battery has run dry so I don't know how bad that is. I know it means clock-based events no longer trigger, I'm just not sure if that would hamper collection of the regis there.
But there is also a high probability of a gen III remake or sequel. Yeah unlike with original gen I and II games, it is possible to trade up from gen III all the way to V (and with Pokebank, to VI) but GBA cartridges are old and not everyone has access to the DS.
I think the main event pokemon I'm missing is Deoxys. There was an event for it a while back (in the summer) but I missed it because my DS Lite's wireless functionality is extremely weak and I'm not able to get it to find the mystery gift at EB Games anymore.
I dunno if I agree with people theorising that a gen III remake is likely. Possible, I'd say. It wouldn't surprise me, but I think it's more likely not - I'd give it maybe 40% odds? Anyway, if I'm getting your implications right... you have most of the event pokemon? Once pokebank is up and you've transferred them, I don't suppose you could help me out filling them into my pokedex? I mean I guess for e.g. Diamond/Pearl I could tweak to get most of them, but I'd rather not since that can easily brick your game, and that still doesn't solve the problem of most of the rest.
As for the battery, I seem to remember catching the Regis in my pirate Emerald, which had no time functionality. I think there was something quite major I was locked out of, though, but can't quite remember what it was...
-
I think I have most of the events, because I tried to get them when ever possible. Too lazy to actually check it for now, but I'll get to it when Pokebank is available. And yeah, I wouldn't mind lending them to you for your pokedex. :)
-
I have a good friend who completed the pokedex in Black 2 earlier this year, now he's aiming to fill it in X.
-
Sweet, I owe you one eHalc. Well, actually, you now have a lucky egg safari I think, so... :P.
-
My friendcode is 2895-7743-1369.
I will add everyone in this thread.
-
My Friend Code is 5412-9998-4485. I'm registering jsh357 and eHalcyon now.
Game is good so far. Just beat the 5th gym because I'm slow like that. I'm loving most of the changes they've made so far, though.
Hurry up and add me as a friend :(. 3523-3415-0449
Xeriox: I've added you.
-
My friendcode is 2895-7743-1369.
I will add everyone in this thread.
I just added you. Nice mii. :)
Do any of you have a rare Vivillon pattern? I'm in the market...
-
My friendcode is 2895-7743-1369.
I will add everyone in this thread.
I just added you. Nice mii. :)
Do any of you have a rare Vivillon pattern? I'm in the market...
I have the continental pattern. Is that something you need?
-
My friendcode is 2895-7743-1369.
I will add everyone in this thread.
I just added you. Nice mii. :)
Do any of you have a rare Vivillon pattern? I'm in the market...
I have the continental pattern. Is that something you need?
No, I have that one. That's a pretty good pattern too though -- you can get a fair few things on GTS with that pattern.
So I've started breeding. I decided to breed Marill first. Azumarill is actually an incredible power house, but that's not why it's my first choice. Two other factor -- first, Marill's egg groups are Water 1 and Fairy, which means a good male Marill will help me breed Froakie and Togepi (aside: I don't yet have a Togepi, so if someone could hook me up...). Second, there is a new mechanic in XY where non-breeding pokemon are guaranteed to have at least 3 perfect IVs. Not only does this apply to legendaries, it also applies to baby pokemon, like Azumarill.
So I caught several wild Azumarill (fairly common) and set foot on the breeding adventure. It took a while, but I finally got a male Marill with 5 perfect IVs -- everything but Attack. This is excellent for my purposes because Attack is the stat I care about least for Togekiss and Greninja. Moreover, I received a female Froakie from WT which has a perfect Attack stat (and nothing else) so it matched up well.
So now I'm breeding Froakie. My goal is Timid nature with its hidden ability and perfect stats, Attack being the least important. My female Froakie has the hidden ability and my understanding is that it has 60% chance of passing down. In case anyone is curious, Froakie's hidden ability is Protean. Before any attack is used, Froakie's type is changed to match the attack. That means it gets STAB bonus on everything, and it can also potentially pull of some cute tricks like becoming ground type right before an electric attack.
Neither the Froakie nor my Marill are Timid, so I couldn't use an Everstone to pass that down. I gave Marill a Power Lens to guarantee passing down SpAtk (arbitrarily chosen) and Froakie the Destiny Knot (which makes breeding for IVs so much easier). The first Froakie egg I hatch... oh man, so close! It's Timid, it has the hidden ability, and it has 5 perfect IVs. Unfortunately, the bad IV was SpDef. I'll have to check later what it actually is -- might be worth it to just say "good enough". If only this Froakie were female! I think I will have to get the power item that passes down SpDef and aim to hatch a female hidden ability Froakie with perfect SpDef, so I can pair it with this near-perfect baby.
OTOH, sticking with Marill and the original mother would also be fun simply because the mother is Japanese, which gives me a slightly better chance of hatching a shiny. But since she only has one perfect IV (and not even one I care about), it'll be tough to hatch another one with such good stats.
-
So after a couple boxes worth of eggs, I finally have my perfect Froakie. I also got a shiny one, and neither of the parents were foreign so it was extra lucky. That one only has 31 SpDef and Speed though, unfortunately. Anyway, I've wonder traded all the 2IV male Froakie, as well as 3IV torrent Froakie. I have a few 4IV torrent, a few females and a few extra 3IV male protean froakies. If anybody wants one, let me know.
-
I've never been much into breeding for IV's. I've mainly been doing it for natures. However, this generation I think I'll start breeding monsters with good IVs. The problem is that I mainly play with friends, and we lost one of them when we started EV training. The rest of us are hard core for being casuals, but we've yet to invest the time and effort needed to IV breed. We do know the mechanics and stuff like that, though. And most of us have played online simulators, but we've got other stuff that takes time now, so I'm not sure how many are willing to start investing a lot of time riding a bicycle from point A to point B and from point B to point A over and over again.
-
Well a lot of the riding a bike back and forth can be replaced by cycling in a circle just about anywhere - Lumiose Tower is a popular one. You can leave the game for a few minutes like that as you get the eggs hatched.
-
I recently made this table. I've only spent a few minutes neatening it up but I might do a little more soon, then post it on reddit. Also register on reddit. Anyway the table shows which gen a particular type combination first appeared in. You guys are probably smart enough to figure out the rest.
Also if you do spot any errors let me know. Mostly it was just one or two pokemon I wasn't 100% sure on the gens of (I was initially going to just record the first pokemon by dex number with each type, then changed it to gens by hand without bothering to check the gens of some pokemon I wasn't 100% sure on, like Masquerain)
(http://i40.tinypic.com/im6p2e.png)
-
Terrific chart! Really interesting. Surskit and Masquerain are third gen, btw. :)
-
I guess you didn't add the unreleased legendaries yet, because their type combos aren't confirmed. Specifically, Volcanion is supposedly Fire/Water.
-
I guess you didn't add the unreleased legendaries yet, because their type combos aren't confirmed. Specifically, Volcanion is supposedly Fire/Water.
Oh, yes, that was a note I needed to add. Volcanion is Fire/Water, I think Hoopa is meant to be Psychic/Dark and Diancie is Fairy/Ice? So of those yeah, Volcanion is the only new one.
Also a few fun facts I noticed while making this:
Ghost type, despite containing relatively few pokemon, covers a surprising number of type combinations. Conversely, Normal type has the most, but covers the 2nd least type combinations - only 10 type combinations - behind only Fairy and tying with only Ice.
Flying is the only type to have pokemon in every possible combination, thanks to gen 6's addition of Hawlucha. Water may join it, if Volcanion is Fire/Water type.
Rock, Ghost, Flying and Ice didn't have a pure typed pokemon until at least gen 2. Ice had to wait until gen 3 to get a pure Ice type, while flying all the way to gen 5!
-
I think that Diancie was said to be Rock/Fairy, which is covered by Carbink. Fairy/Ice would be new. Oh, and Hoopa is supposedly Psychic/Ghost, which would be new.
-
Dragon-steel was 4th gen (dialga)
-
Dragon-steel was 4th gen (dialga)
That's already on the chart!
Speaking of dragons, does anybody have a Rough Skin Gible/Gabite I could have to breed?
-
I'll have a look. I've got a Garchomp, I know that. Also whoops, I knew Diancie was supposedly the same as Carbink, just said the wrong thing. I guess I should add Hoopa as a possibility as well.
Edit: Sand Veil I'm afraid.
But while we're on the topic of requests, I've got 8 evolution trades lined up: Scyther, Seadra, Graveller*, Poliwhirl, Boldore*, Rhydon, Shelmet* and Karrablast*. I also need to get Slowking and a few other friend safari ones, but don't have the (extra) evolution items for them. Anyone here willing to help me out (it'd help if you have one of Shelmet or Karrablast, plus one or two of the other above *'d pokemon - those don't require you to use up an evolution item you have, so it'd just make the trading+evolving less slow.
-
Dragon-steel was 4th gen (dialga)
That's already on the chart!
Speaking of dragons, does anybody have a Rough Skin Gible/Gabite I could have to breed?
Oops misread.
-
Dragon-steel was 4th gen (dialga)
That's already on the chart!
Speaking of dragons, does anybody have a Rough Skin Gible/Gabite I could have to breed?
I Have one.
You can have it for one of those froakies you mentioned.
-
I'll have a look. I've got a Garchomp, I know that. Also whoops, I knew Diancie was supposedly the same as Carbink, just said the wrong thing. I guess I should add Hoopa as a possibility as well.
Edit: Sand Veil I'm afraid.
But while we're on the topic of requests, I've got 8 evolution trades lined up: Scyther, Seadra, Graveller*, Poliwhirl, Boldore*, Rhydon, Shelmet* and Karrablast*. I also need to get Slowking and a few other friend safari ones, but don't have the (extra) evolution items for them. Anyone here willing to help me out (it'd help if you have one of Shelmet or Karrablast, plus one or two of the other above *'d pokemon - those don't require you to use up an evolution item you have, so it'd just make the trading+evolving less slow.
I can help you with this. I also have a scyther I want to evolve.
-
I'll have a look. I've got a Garchomp, I know that. Also whoops, I knew Diancie was supposedly the same as Carbink, just said the wrong thing. I guess I should add Hoopa as a possibility as well.
Edit: Sand Veil I'm afraid.
But while we're on the topic of requests, I've got 8 evolution trades lined up: Scyther, Seadra, Graveller*, Poliwhirl, Boldore*, Rhydon, Shelmet* and Karrablast*. I also need to get Slowking and a few other friend safari ones, but don't have the (extra) evolution items for them. Anyone here willing to help me out (it'd help if you have one of Shelmet or Karrablast, plus one or two of the other above *'d pokemon - those don't require you to use up an evolution item you have, so it'd just make the trading+evolving less slow.
I can help you with this. I also have a scyther I want to evolve.
Are you online now? It's obviously a little tough to match up people's usernames here to in game names, but I'm online as Tables if you want to ping me a trade request.
-
I'll have a look. I've got a Garchomp, I know that. Also whoops, I knew Diancie was supposedly the same as Carbink, just said the wrong thing. I guess I should add Hoopa as a possibility as well.
Edit: Sand Veil I'm afraid.
But while we're on the topic of requests, I've got 8 evolution trades lined up: Scyther, Seadra, Graveller*, Poliwhirl, Boldore*, Rhydon, Shelmet* and Karrablast*. I also need to get Slowking and a few other friend safari ones, but don't have the (extra) evolution items for them. Anyone here willing to help me out (it'd help if you have one of Shelmet or Karrablast, plus one or two of the other above *'d pokemon - those don't require you to use up an evolution item you have, so it'd just make the trading+evolving less slow.
I can help you with this. I also have a scyther I want to evolve.
Are you online now? It's obviously a little tough to match up people's usernames here to in game names, but I'm online as Tables if you want to ping me a trade request.
I am online. Trying to request now.
-
I now realise I said I was online as Tables which was a complete fabrication ::).
-
Yay disconnections
-
I guess you didn't add the unreleased legendaries yet, because their type combos aren't confirmed. Specifically, Volcanion is supposedly Fire/Water.
Oh, yes, that was a note I needed to add. Volcanion is Fire/Water, I think Hoopa is meant to be Psychic/Dark and Diancie is Fairy/Ice? So of those yeah, Volcanion is the only new one.
Also a few fun facts I noticed while making this:
Ghost type, despite containing relatively few pokemon, covers a surprising number of type combinations. Conversely, Normal type has the most, but covers the 2nd least type combinations - only 10 type combinations - behind only Fairy and tying with only Ice.
Flying is the only type to have pokemon in every possible combination, thanks to gen 6's addition of Hawlucha. Water may join it, if Volcanion is Fire/Water type.
Rock, Ghost, Flying and Ice didn't have a pure typed pokemon until at least gen 2. Ice had to wait until gen 3 to get a pure Ice type, while flying all the way to gen 5!
Poison ties with normal and ice with 10 types. They started with many in 1st gen, but have almost gotten no new combination.
Electrisity is also among the low ones. Take away rotom, and they are dead last with 8.
-
Dragon-steel was 4th gen (dialga)
That's already on the chart!
Speaking of dragons, does anybody have a Rough Skin Gible/Gabite I could have to breed?
I Have one.
You can have it for one of those froakies you mentioned.
I'm actually thinking now that Sand Veil would be fine. I wanted Rough Skin because I wasn't planning on running sandstorm, and also because most online movesets that I've seen suggest Rough Skin. But I might change my mind about sandstorm in the future, and I realize now that they don't use Sand Veil in online sets because places like Smogon ban Sand Veil because of their evasion clause.
I will still make that trade though. Not sure when I'll see you online -- I don't think I've even unlocked your third pokemon in FS.
IIRC, I have male Proteans with up to 4 flawless IVs. I was breeding for Timid nature, but I know I also have a bunch of differently natured ones, mostly with 3 flawless IVs. Slimmer pickings with females.
@Tables, if you need any more help with trade evolutions, you can send a request when I'm online. I can just trade and trade back. The Shelmet/Karrablast trade is easy to do on GTS though -- I know I did both of those when I first got to the route where they are found.
-
Dragon-steel was 4th gen (dialga)
That's already on the chart!
Speaking of dragons, does anybody have a Rough Skin Gible/Gabite I could have to breed?
I Have one.
You can have it for one of those froakies you mentioned.
I'm actually thinking now that Sand Veil would be fine. I wanted Rough Skin because I wasn't planning on running sandstorm, and also because most online movesets that I've seen suggest Rough Skin. But I might change my mind about sandstorm in the future, and I realize now that they don't use Sand Veil in online sets because places like Smogon ban Sand Veil because of their evasion clause.
I will still make that trade though. Not sure when I'll see you online -- I don't think I've even unlocked your third pokemon in FS.
IIRC, I have male Proteans with up to 4 flawless IVs. I was breeding for Timid nature, but I know I also have a bunch of differently natured ones, mostly with 3 flawless IVs. Slimmer pickings with females.
@Tables, if you need any more help with trade evolutions, you can send a request when I'm online. I can just trade and trade back. The Shelmet/Karrablast trade is easy to do on GTS though -- I know I did both of those when I first got to the route where they are found.
I've done most of them thanks to Xeiron, and I reckon the remaining ones I have available (just Slowking I think, actually) I can manage through GTS. Yeah I could have done a good number of these through GTS but I had so many lined up, I figured it'd be quickly and easier through a friend.
-
The item evolutions are tougher to coordinate through GTS. I was just mentioning the Shelmet/Karrablast one in particular, because no items are needed there.
-
Dragon-steel was 4th gen (dialga)
That's already on the chart!
Speaking of dragons, does anybody have a Rough Skin Gible/Gabite I could have to breed?
I Have one.
You can have it for one of those froakies you mentioned.
I'm actually thinking now that Sand Veil would be fine. I wanted Rough Skin because I wasn't planning on running sandstorm, and also because most online movesets that I've seen suggest Rough Skin. But I might change my mind about sandstorm in the future, and I realize now that they don't use Sand Veil in online sets because places like Smogon ban Sand Veil because of their evasion clause.
I will still make that trade though. Not sure when I'll see you online -- I don't think I've even unlocked your third pokemon in FS.
IIRC, I have male Proteans with up to 4 flawless IVs. I was breeding for Timid nature, but I know I also have a bunch of differently natured ones, mostly with 3 flawless IVs. Slimmer pickings with females.
@Tables, if you need any more help with trade evolutions, you can send a request when I'm online. I can just trade and trade back. The Shelmet/Karrablast trade is easy to do on GTS though -- I know I did both of those when I first got to the route where they are found.
If you Have a timid 4IV that includes max speed, I would like that. If not, then one of the females.
I have a collections of gibles. Both male and female with either abilitiy. Most of them are jolly, but I have some other natures as well. They have about 1-2 max IVs. All of them knows outrage.
-
Haven't actually checked if I have a Froakie matching that, but it's probable. I actually got impatient and bred my own Outrage Gibles (thanks for reminding me that it's an egg move). No Rough Skin, but I've got my perfect one now.
I still don't think I've seen you online. I'm happy to give the Froakie for nothing, but I have to see you first. When are you typically around?
FWIW, I'm interested in getting good IV pokemon in the Mineral egg group now. In particular, I'm planning to breed Ferroseed with Leech Seed/Stealth Rock/Spikes. I've got a 4IV male Roselia with Leech Seed now, and I guess the next step would be getting a male Crustle... oh, but Spikes is only through Cacnea/Cacturne, which I don't have access to. Hmm. Well, I wouldn't actually use all three of those anyway, so maybe I'll just skip Spikes.
-
@xeiron, saw you briefly but then you disappeared. Froakie selection is smaller than I thought; most of my 4IV Froakies are either not Protean or not Timid. I have two females with 2IVs, several timid males with 3IVs including speed, a modest 4IV male with speed (missing sp atk and defense) and a timid male with 4IVs (missing speed and attack).
-
Just managed to finish catching them all. 596 pokemon caught in the National Dex. The remaining 122 are not available in any way in Kalos, so I can't get them until pokebank opens up sometime next month (can't remember exactly when it does, but I think it's close to Christmas).
Much to my amusement, I didn't need to buy a single item from the Battle Maison. Apparently Shiny Stones are sufficiently rare that people will trade Magmortars and Gliscors and the like for Shiny Stone evolved pokemon.
Now to decide what to do next. I suspect not play pokemon for a while is the answer. That or play through Pearl again, transfer all the starters and other version exclusives I can into Black...
-
Just managed to finish catching them all. 596 pokemon caught in the National Dex. The remaining 122 are not available in any way in Kalos, so I can't get them until pokebank opens up sometime next month (can't remember exactly when it does, but I think it's close to Christmas).
Much to my amusement, I didn't need to buy a single item from the Battle Maison. Apparently Shiny Stones are sufficiently rare that people will trade Magmortars and Gliscors and the like for Shiny Stone evolved pokemon.
Now to decide what to do next. I suspect not play pokemon for a while is the answer. That or play through Pearl again, transfer all the starters and other version exclusives I can into Black...
On the flipside of this, I'm going to be restarting my game tomorrow!
-
Got any good pokemon you wouldn't mind giving away ;)? Or uh maybe ones you'd like someone to hold as well, I can do that too.
-
Got any good pokemon you wouldn't mind giving away ;)? Or uh maybe ones you'd like someone to hold as well, I can do that too.
I actually don't really know, I still haven't played since the sdcardgate crash last month. However, I'm traveling tomorrow and told my roommate that that's when I wanted it back. I know he has at least 8 badges but I don't know about other stuff. I'd be happy to ask, though!
-
Just managed to finish catching them all. 596 pokemon caught in the National Dex. The remaining 122 are not available in any way in Kalos, so I can't get them until pokebank opens up sometime next month (can't remember exactly when it does, but I think it's close to Christmas).
Much to my amusement, I didn't need to buy a single item from the Battle Maison. Apparently Shiny Stones are sufficiently rare that people will trade Magmortars and Gliscors and the like for Shiny Stone evolved pokemon.
Now to decide what to do next. I suspect not play pokemon for a while is the answer. That or play through Pearl again, transfer all the starters and other version exclusives I can into Black...
Huh, is that so? I haven't really used any evolutionary stones other than the three you can buy. I got all the stone evos by putting togepi up for trade. Maybe I should try to get more stone evo pokemon to trade for those trade evo pokemon. Which shiny stone evolved pokemon do you find was the best trade fodder?
-
Just managed to finish catching them all. 596 pokemon caught in the National Dex. The remaining 122 are not available in any way in Kalos, so I can't get them until pokebank opens up sometime next month (can't remember exactly when it does, but I think it's close to Christmas).
Much to my amusement, I didn't need to buy a single item from the Battle Maison. Apparently Shiny Stones are sufficiently rare that people will trade Magmortars and Gliscors and the like for Shiny Stone evolved pokemon.
Now to decide what to do next. I suspect not play pokemon for a while is the answer. That or play through Pearl again, transfer all the starters and other version exclusives I can into Black...
Huh, is that so? I haven't really used any evolutionary stones other than the three you can buy. I got all the stone evos by putting togepi up for trade. Maybe I should try to get more stone evo pokemon to trade for those trade evo pokemon. Which shiny stone evolved pokemon do you find was the best trade fodder?
I didn't use really many of them. Honestly I extrapolated a bit - put a Tokekiss up and got it traded for a Gliscor almost immediately. But if you were going to try and collect they (you can get them from the Roserade Secret Training), I'd go for Cinccino or Togekiss.
-
I'm gonna try to trade for some of these things with Sylveon.
-
Report: The first Sylveon I put up got me a Rhyperior fairly quickly. The second I put up did not get me a Gliscor. I've put it up again, this time holding a Maranga Berry. I also have a female Sylveon in reserve. I think that Gliscor is the only thing I still need to see before I can get the Oval Charm. I'm currently more interested in breeding than in actually completing the pokedex.
Did you manage to get the other legendary birds through trading? If so, what did you put up?
-
Report: The first Sylveon I put up got me a Rhyperior fairly quickly. The second I put up did not get me a Gliscor. I've put it up again, this time holding a Maranga Berry. I also have a female Sylveon in reserve. I think that Gliscor is the only thing I still need to see before I can get the Oval Charm. I'm currently more interested in breeding than in actually completing the pokedex.
Did you manage to get the other legendary birds through trading? If so, what did you put up?
For the birds, I simply traded my own birds and got all of them in a cycle. If you wanted to keep more than one, not sure what you could do other than trade something really hard to find and evolve.
-
Report: The first Sylveon I put up got me a Rhyperior fairly quickly. The second I put up did not get me a Gliscor. I've put it up again, this time holding a Maranga Berry. I also have a female Sylveon in reserve. I think that Gliscor is the only thing I still need to see before I can get the Oval Charm. I'm currently more interested in breeding than in actually completing the pokedex.
Did you manage to get the other legendary birds through trading? If so, what did you put up?
For the birds, I simply traded my own birds and got all of them in a cycle. If you wanted to keep more than one, not sure what you could do other than trade something really hard to find and evolve.
Yeah, I figure that was a way. I'd like to keep them all though, especially my own bird. I started with Fennekin for several reasons, one of which was that Zapdos is my favourite of the three. :P
I still haven't gone to track it down 10(?) times yet, but I've run into it 4-5 times by already just from hatching eggs and accidentally cycling into the grass. It'll probably settle in the Den eventually without me having to purposely chase after it.
-
I just finished making and utilising a 250,000 x 50 spreadsheet full of formulae to calculate every possible pokemon type's weaknesses and the like - assuming pokemon could have any number of types. The results were rather interesting to say the least. I was most interested in which types were the strongest and/or weakest defensively, which is a pretty tough thing to say objectively, since you need to compare things like one immunity and two weaknesses to one weakness and two resistances, and with 250,000+ type combinations (actually 262,144 if you want to be accurate) the only realistic way to go through and compare it is using a formula which judges things for itself.
I still don't quite know what to do with the formula mind... but a preliminary estimate formula (which likes immunities, dislikes weaknesses and really dislikes double (or more) weaknesses) tells me the best type combination is something like Normal + Fire + Water + Electric + Poison + Ground + Flying + Ghost + Dragon + Dark + Steel + Fairy with possibly also Fighting added (Fighting only changes what weaknesses/resistances there are and leaves the number of each untouched). This crazy type combination gives you immunity to every type which can have an immunity, as well as double (or more) resistances to Fire, Grass, Flying, Bug and Steel and normal resistance to Fairy and Dark. Only Water, Ice and Rock hit for neutral damage. The Fighting variant gets Fairy neutrality for Rock resistance and reduces the Flying resistance to single in exchange for Dark double resistance (it also makes Bug go from dealing 1/32 damage to 1/64 damage...).
The worst combination? I'm less happy with what the formula is spurting out for this, but I know why it's happening. The combination is Grass + Ice + Fighting + Ground + Flying + Psychic + Bug + Dragon + Dark. This combination gives a lovely 3 immunities and even 4 resistances... but 8 weaknesses including 8x Ice, 8x Flying, 8x Fairy and 4x Fire. The thing I have to wonder though is, since this can can switch in on three possible types with immunity, is it really so bad, even if it's basically guaranteed to go down in one shot to anything which isn't choice'd?
The worst type with no immunities seems to be Grass + Ice + Fighting + Psychic + Bug, which has 5 resistances but 8x Fire, 8x Flying and 6 other weaknesses.
Currently the formula I'm using doesn't account for specific types (which are most important to have resistances/dangerous to have weaknesses to? I know Rock is a terrible type to be weak to but beyond that...). I think I also overvalue not having huge weaknesses and undervalue immunities. The formula basically checks each type and adds points to a pokemon's vulnerability like so:
+20 for >=8x damage
+8 for >= 4x damage (note this also includes the above - so an 8x or more weakness adds a total of 36 points to a pokemon's 'vulnerability')
+4 for >= 2x damage
+1 for >= 1x damage
+1 for >= 0.5x damage
+2 for > 0x damage
What tweaks could I make to get a better grasp on the 'best' types?
-
I'd be interested in the best and worst typings when you limit it to dual types, and again if you limit it to triple types. The latter would be really interesting to consider due to Trick-or-Treat and Forest's Curse (i.e. focus especially on triple types with Ghost or with Grass), but other triple types might come into play in the future. Anything beyond that is unlikely, at least for now.
-
What tweaks could I make to get a better grasp on the 'best' types?
One approach is to consider how much damage you would take from a random attack. So you could hit each multitype with an attack that deals 25% damage before applying weakness and resistance, and sum the damage over the possible attacking types. The intention here is that damage for each attack is capped at 100%, so that 4x weakness is as bad as it gets.
Inverting the damage counts (so that you're counting how many turns is takes to KO) has some appeal, but then you have to do something about immunities, as they're not infinitely good.
As well as Stealth Rock, some other things that currently give types a different value from what this sort of analysis might indicate are:
Spikes
The stat distributions of existing Pokemon
The existing defensive typings (which influences the types of attack that you see)
The powers and availability of moves of various type
Abilities
Immunity to various types of Status effect
-
What tweaks could I make to get a better grasp on the 'best' types?
One approach is to consider how much damage you would take from a random attack. So you could hit each multitype with an attack that deals 25% damage before applying weakness and resistance, and sum the damage over the possible attacking types. The intention here is that damage for each attack is capped at 100%, so that 4x weakness is as bad as it gets.
Inverting the damage counts (so that you're counting how many turns is takes to KO) has some appeal, but then you have to do something about immunities, as they're not infinitely good.
As well as Stealth Rock, some other things that currently give types a different value from what this sort of analysis might indicate are:
Spikes
The stat distributions of existing Pokemon
The existing defensive typings (which influences the types of attack that you see)
The powers and availability of moves of various type
Abilities
Immunity to various types of Status effect
I kind of like the first approach, but I think it's worth noting that immunity is much better than just really resisting something - being unaffected by all status moves of a type, as well as blocking damage + effect type moves, is a bigger difference than going from taking 6% damage to 0% damage from an attack. So I'd probably want to adjust for that.
The second set of points is something I'd really like to do, but I don't know enough about the metagame and such to know which types really matter the most.
-
I've made some adjustments to the formula. It now does the following for each type:
6 pts if damage taken < 0.5, but not immune
7 pts if damage taken = 0.5
9 pts if damage taken = 1
11 pts if damage taken = 2
13 pts if damage taken = 4
15 pts if damage taken >= 8
It then adds on the following modifiers:
0/12/18 points if 0/1/2+ types deal at least neutral damage
0/12/18 points if 0/1/2+ types deal at least 2x damage
0/12/18 points if 0/1/2+ types deal at least 4x damage
8 points if not immune to ground (spikes)
8*(damage taken from rock type) (Stealth Rock)
So here's the ideas behind this one: Firstly there's some base numbers for each type. Immunities are really good, Big weaknesses aren't quite so insanely punishing for the type now. However, having at least 1-2 weaknesses is kind of a thing since that means you CAN be taken down quickly, so types are penalised extra for the first few weaknesses (also neutral and double weaknessses) they have, which encourages types with no weaknesses at all to float upwards. Finally, there's an adjustment based on vulnerability to Spikes and Rocks. I'd like to weight towards every type individually, but those are the big ones at least.
The top three types here all share: Normal + Water + Electric + Fighting + Poison + Ground + Flying + Ghost + Dark + Steel + Fairy. Then there's:
93: Fire + Dragon
94: Fire + Psychic + Dragon
94: No extra types
Each of these has all the immunities (8 of them), takes neutral damage from 3-4 types and at least half damage from 5-6.
I'd be interested in the best and worst typings when you limit it to dual types, and again if you limit it to triple types. The latter would be really interesting to consider due to Trick-or-Treat and Forest's Curse (i.e. focus especially on triple types with Ghost or with Grass), but other triple types might come into play in the future. Anything beyond that is unlikely, at least for now.
Double types I did a while ago. Steel/Fairy, Flying/Steel and Normal/Ghost top the list, while Ice/Rock, Grass/Ice and Grass/Psychic are at the bottom -using my old formula. Adjust this formula to be like the new one...
Ghost/Steel tops the list at 172, followed by Flying/Steel (174), Steel/Fairy (177), Normal/Ghost (179), Ghost/Dark (181) and Ground/Steel (181). At the bottom is Ice/Bug (262), Fire/Ice (251), Ice/Rock (248), Fire/Bug (245), Grass/Bug (244) and Grass/Ice (242). Ice/Bug isn't a type I'd seen near the bottom before... I suppose it fell down because it hits that two double weakness threshold, one of which is that crippling Rock weakness.
I'll consider how I can do triple types soon. Shouldn't be too hard to adjust.
Oh and the worst multi-types, just for the curious... well, you can probably guess what they all share (hint: It's something which I should have limited in my formula but didn't). I'll adjust that one soon as well.
-
Okay so triple types, including only Grass or Ghost + two others:
Best are: Flying/Steel/Ghost (156), Steel/Fairy/Ghost (159), Normal/Steel/Ghost (161), Dark/Steel/Ghost (164), Ground/Steel/Ghost (166), Fighting/Steel/Ghost (170), Normal/Fairy/Ghost (171) and Dragon/Steel/Ghost (171). Normal/Dark/Ghost (172) also manages to tie with the old winner Ghost/Steel.
When you think about it, those are pretty unsurprising. Ghost gives immunity to Fighting, one of Steel's three weaknesses, and Steel is already a pretty strong type defensively. On top of that a lot of the combinations here are just top combinations from before but with added Ghost type, which gives two immunities.
At the bottom, Ice/Bug/Grass (266) is the only type worse than just Ice/Bug (262) was. An 8 times Fire weakness does it no favours. Asides from that there's also at the bottom, Fire/Ice/Grass (253), Ice/Psychic/Grass (250), Ice/Flying/Grass (250), Ice/Rock/Grass (250) and Fire/Bug/Grass (249).
Oh, and as an aside: Ice/Bug/Ghost manages to climb the ranks to a lofty 244, while Steel/Fairy/Grass drops the otherwise 'best' typing down to 184 (although Steel/Fairy/Grass beats it by a point at 183).
On the unlimited types sheet, it looks like the worst type combinations are:
Fire + Grass + Fighting + Bug and then also:
296: Psychic + Dragon
295: Psychic
294: Dragon
All of these type combinations give 8x Rock weakness meaning Stealth Rocks = OHKO, as well as a 4x Flying (and in the no Dragon case, 4x Fire) weakness. A total lack of immunities and variety of other weaknesses also helps push those types down.
Of course, in reality those types have the advantages of being immune to burn and spore moves, as well as 5-6 STABs and a decent number of resistances. So they might be good offensively. If they can switch into battle, that is.
-
Just realized that I never actually transferred things from Gen V Global Link onto my games. I don't have anybody tucked in so I can't transfer them back now. I never really did much with GL other than the events, so I'm not sure how much I've lost. I've definitely lost out on an event Arceus though... blah. Stupid me.
-
I've never been able to connect to the internet on my DS, or my 3DS using DS settings - I've only once come across a router which was compatible with DS settings, and I've been with both multiple ISPs and in various public locations. It's really sad how limited the original DS seems to be in that way.
Hopefully this won't stop me transferring pokemon from Black to X... but I'll have to see.
-
I've never been able to connect to the internet on my DS, or my 3DS using DS settings - I've only once come across a router which was compatible with DS settings, and I've been with both multiple ISPs and in various public locations. It's really sad how limited the original DS seems to be in that way.
Hopefully this won't stop me transferring pokemon from Black to X... but I'll have to see.
I do still have a DS Lite, but it's very finnicky about connecting to the internet nowadays. Moreover, my home internet is no longer WEP, which is all the DS Lite can use. It would be a lot of trouble to change it to WEP and then back again afterwards. OK, maybe not that much trouble, but it's still a bit annoying. At some point I'll have to organize all my old games and then just do it once, I guess.
Still sad about that Arceus.
-
So my national pokedex is complete except for pretty much every legendary... bleh. Don't know how I'm going to get those. Trying to get just one pokebank legendary so I can start cycling it for the rest, but not really sure what I can offer for it. Tried a 4IV Scyther with Metal Coat for a bit. Tried a Porygon with Upgrade. Currently trying an Yveltal with Kee Berry.
Yesterday I saw a Suicune on the GTS asking for a Heatmor, of all things. By the time I found it in my boxes though, it was already traded. :(
-
Anyone still playing this?
I have fully completed my pokedex (minus the unreleased event legendaries) thanks to a friend. Haven't downloaded Pokebank yet, though it's out... probably won't really transfer anything at this point.
I got all 5 trophies in the Battle Maison, with Super Multi being ridiculously tough and requiring multiple tries. Currently trying to get a 200 streak so I can get that last berry... best I've done so far is 181 in Super Doubles. I could have won it too, but I made a really stupid mistake. I had my Dragonite vs. Krookodile remaining, both very low HP. Could have finished it with Extreme Speed... but I thought, "hey, Dragon Claw will give me more power, which maybe I'll need because I'm at -1 due to Intimidate". Except I already knew that Krookodile was faster than me. So, really terrible mistake on my part.
-
I'm gonna continue playing at some point soon and try and fill out my pokedex, I think.
-
Alpha Sapphire and Omega Ruby confirmed. It's happening, people.
-
Maybe they'll start doing Hebrew letters at some point?
-
Not much time for Pokémon these days, but I'm enjoying the coverage of Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire. I think it's cool that they held back some Mega Evolutions for these games. Mega Sableye seems especially cool. I'm hoping that some other weak Pokémon get one.
-
I'm barely keeping up with updates about ORAS. Apparently Mega Sableye's ability has been revealed --Magic Bounce. Interesting, but is it worth losing Prankster? I suppose it makes Sableye even more of a troll when you can't predict whether it will mega evolve or not.
-
Well, bear in mind that you can still get the Prankster boost on the turn Sableye mega evolves, which could be significant.
As with Mega Absol, I don't believe Magic Bounce is there to actually reflect status moves. It's there to encourage opponents to use direct attacks. Mega Absol is set up to be a fantastic Me First user. Similarly, Sableye is set up to use Metal Burst. They both have STAB Sucker Punch as well (though I don't think Mega Sableye will have a high enough Attack stat to make use of it).
-
Well, bear in mind that you can still get the Prankster boost on the turn Sableye mega evolves, which could be significant.
As with Mega Absol, I don't believe Magic Bounce is there to actually reflect status moves. It's there to encourage opponents to use direct attacks. Mega Absol is set up to be a fantastic Me First user. Similarly, Sableye is set up to use Metal Burst. They both have STAB Sucker Punch as well (though I don't think Mega Sableye will have a high enough Attack stat to make use of it).
Does it really get the prankster boost? The base speed is applied before mega evolution, but I wouldn't have thought Prankster would apply if you mega evolve that same turn.
-
Does it really get the prankster boost? The base speed is applied before mega evolution, but I wouldn't have thought Prankster would apply if you mega evolve that same turn.
It's the same principle. The turn order is determined at the start of the round before anything else happens.
Mega Banette doesn't get its new Prankster boost on the turn it Mega Evolves, and the same principle should apply here.
-
Does it really get the prankster boost? The base speed is applied before mega evolution, but I wouldn't have thought Prankster would apply if you mega evolve that same turn.
It's the same principle. The turn order is determined at the start of the round before anything else happens.
Mega Banette doesn't get its new Prankster boost on the turn it Mega Evolves, and the same principle should apply here.
Hmm, good point. Might be interesting to sometimes hold off on mega-evolving immediately though. For mind games.
-
It's the same principle. The turn order is determined at the start of the round before anything else happens.
Mega Banette doesn't get its new Prankster boost on the turn it Mega Evolves, and the same principle should apply here.
Hmm, good point. Might be interesting to sometimes hold off on mega-evolving immediately though. For mind games.
I'm guessing—guessing!—that won't be a great idea. Sableye is pretty darn frail without the defensive boosts it gets when it mega evolves. Maybe it'll still be frail, but I doubt it. I'm expecting some decent SpDef boost in addition to the advertised huge Defense increase.
-
It's the same principle. The turn order is determined at the start of the round before anything else happens.
Mega Banette doesn't get its new Prankster boost on the turn it Mega Evolves, and the same principle should apply here.
Hmm, good point. Might be interesting to sometimes hold off on mega-evolving immediately though. For mind games.
I'm guessing—guessing!—that won't be a great idea. Sableye is pretty darn frail without the defensive boosts it gets when it mega evolves. Maybe it'll still be frail, but I doubt it. I'm expecting some decent SpDef boost in addition to the advertised huge Defense increase.
Current Sableye gets around that with prankster will-o-wisp, doesn't it? Mega Sableye might opt for that and prankster Taunt before mega evolving.
I'm just spitballing here though. I've not kept up with the competitive scene and I haven't even played in months.
-
It's the same principle. The turn order is determined at the start of the round before anything else happens.
Mega Banette doesn't get its new Prankster boost on the turn it Mega Evolves, and the same principle should apply here.
Hmm, good point. Might be interesting to sometimes hold off on mega-evolving immediately though. For mind games.
I'm guessing—guessing!—that won't be a great idea. Sableye is pretty darn frail without the defensive boosts it gets when it mega evolves. Maybe it'll still be frail, but I doubt it. I'm expecting some decent SpDef boost in addition to the advertised huge Defense increase.
Current Sableye gets around that with prankster will-o-wisp, doesn't it? Mega Sableye might opt for that and prankster Taunt before mega evolving.
I'm just spitballing here though. I've not kept up with the competitive scene and I haven't even played in months.
Ah, me either. I played competitively primarily back in 4th gen. And I'm always assuming Doubles rather than Singes. So for me, one priority Will-O-Wisp and immediately higher defenses trump two priority moves and a round of frailty.
-
I'm gonna go ahead and make some predictions for other new mega evolutions.
We had Mega Alakazam and Mega Gengar in X/Y, so I'm thinking there may be Mega Golem and Mega Machamp.
Perhaps we'll see Mega Camerupt and Mega Wailord, the two favored Pokémon of Team Magma and Team Aqua, respectively.
I just hope we get some mega evolutions for Ground types. They seem to have gotten the shaft in 6th gen, what with Diggersby and Zygarde being the only new Ground Pokémon and Mega Garchomp being the only Ground-type mega. I'm hoping for Mega Sandslash, but that's probably just wishful thinking.
-
I forgot that you think primarily in doubles terms.
Those first four are good predictions. I'll predict a Mega Dunsparce, because it is another weak pokemon that is a somewhat surprising fan favourite, like Sableye (although Sableye became powerful --at least in singles-- when it got Prankster in gen 5).
A gen III fan favourite could be Mega Tropius.
And I'm wondering if they will do anything else with this primal reversion thing other than Primal Kyogre and Primal Groudon. I could see them leaving it as special for the version mascots (maybe throw in Primal Rayquaza) but I could also see them doing something with Primal Regis, or maybe even something with the fossil pokemon (maybe including Relicanth) -- dropping the Rock type on boosted primal versions of them?
I doubt there are going to be very many new megas, but there are a lot of interesting things they could do.
And for ground types, there's already Mega Dugtrio, where it comes out of the ground to reveal its hulking body. Right?
-
Those first four are good predictions. I'll predict a Mega Dunsparce, because it is another weak pokemon that is a somewhat surprising fan favourite, like Sableye (although Sableye became powerful --at least in singles-- when it got Prankster in gen 5).
A gen III fan favourite could be Mega Tropius.
I too would love to see Mega Dunsparce and Mega Tropius.
And I'm wondering if they will do anything else with this primal reversion thing other than Primal Kyogre and Primal Groudon. I could see them leaving it as special for the version mascots (maybe throw in Primal Rayquaza) but I could also see them doing something with Primal Regis, or maybe even something with the fossil pokemon (maybe including Relicanth) -- dropping the Rock type on boosted primal versions of them?
I think Mega (or Primal) Relicanth would be cool. Even a Mega Evolution probably can't save Luvdisc.
Mega evolutions of legendaries don't really interest me much, although I do think Mega Regis would be cool. If the hacker from a few months ago can be believed, there are mega evolutions of Latias and Latios.
I doubt there are going to be very many new megas, but there are a lot of interesting things they could do.
I am hoping there will be quite a few new ones. Maybe not quite as many as were introduced in X and Y, but somewhere on that order of magnitude.
My actual mega wishlist (for the Hoenn dex) is probably something like: Masquerain, Golem, Delcatty, Machamp, Dodrio, Swalot, Torkoal, Grumpig, Sandslash, Claydol, Tropius, Chimecho, Xatu, Girafarig, Glalie, Corsola.
I think we'll see Mega Milotic as a counterpart to Mega Gyarados. We'll probably see Mega Salamence and Mega Metagross (groan). Mega Flygon might be cool. I like Flygon. Primal Reversion with Arena Trap!
-
Perhaps we'll see Mega Camerupt and Mega Wailord, the two favored Pokémon of Team Magma and Team Aqua, respectively.
Sharpedo is Team Aqua's favored Pokemon. It has the same BST as Camerupt! In any case, I wouldn't object to Mega Sharpedo.
-
Sharpedo is one of my favorite water monsters. A mega evolution of him would be nice. Or Qwilfish. Seriously. Qwilfish is a beast.
-
Perhaps we'll see Mega Camerupt and Mega Wailord, the two favored Pokémon of Team Magma and Team Aqua, respectively.
Sharpedo is Team Aqua's favored Pokemon. It has the same BST as Camerupt! In any case, I wouldn't object to Mega Sharpedo.
Oh, yeah. I played Ruby, so I misremembered this. I thought it was Wailord, since it learns Water Spout and Camerupt learns Eruption. Sharpedo needs a boost anyway.
-
It allready has Speed Boost. ;)
-
It allready has Speed Boost. ;)
So did Blaziken.
EDIT: Oh, I get it. A boost! Heh.
-
Sharpedo is one of my favorite water monsters. A mega evolution of him would be nice. Or Qwilfish. Seriously. Qwilfish is a beast.
Yes, Qwilfish is awesome. Destiny Bond + Revenge = Win.
-
If Salamence and Metagross get megas, Dragonite will need one too or else feel really overlooked...
-
If Salamence and Metagross get megas, Dragonite will need one too or else feel really overlooked...
Yeah, but it could get one in 7th gen. It might get one for Omega Ruby/Alpha Sapphire. It depends on whether they expand the Hoenn Dex or decide to have megas that aren't in the regional dex.
I wonder if we'll see any 5th gen megas. Mega Hydreigon seems silly. Four heads? Five? I'd like to see Mega Heatmor and Mega Durant.
-
I just got this game a few days ago, and a 3DS about 2 weeks ago. I got insta-hooked, though I only just passed the first gym. I fool around with the pokemon-amie and super-training a lot. This is actually the first main-series Pokemon game that I'll be playing for realz. I did play both Pokemon Stadium games, especially the second one.
Oh, and I think Mega Dunsparce would be really neat.
-
Welcome to the addiction!
-
So, can I add some of you guys, if not for Pokemon then maybe for the new Smash Bros. when it comes out on 3DS?
My friend code is 3840 - 7707 - 7036. I just hope I recognize anyone who tries to add me.
I just started, so I don't know what kind of trading help I'll need to populate my pokedex. I know that not having a second DS/3DS will make it hard to get non-X/Y Pokemon before gen 4 due to not being able to trade to Black/White where PokemonBank can handle the rest. I'm hoping the gen 3 remakes make things easier.
-
We'll probably see Mega Salamence and Mega Metagross (groan).
Mega Metagross was revealed awhile ago and today we see Mega Salamence. Man, does Salamence ever not need a Mega Evolution for after it uses Intimidate.
Mega Altaria (Dragon/Fairy with Pixilate) and Mega Lopunny (Normal/Fighting with Scrappy) also revealed. I'm pleasantly surprised to see a 4th-gen Pokémon getting the Mega Evolution treatment in Omega/Alpha. Normal/Fighting with Scrappy seems like a rockin' combo.
-
Mega Altaria looks great. Fluffier than ever. Mega Lopunny looks alright, and more interesting than regular Lopunny (I always found it mildly disturbing, actually). Mega Salamence looks a little strange with that new wing shape.
Still hoping for Mega Flygon.
Also, there is currently an NA event for the pokeball pattern Vivillon. It's very limited though, so get it now.
So, can I add some of you guys, if not for Pokemon then maybe for the new Smash Bros. when it comes out on 3DS?
My friend code is 3840 - 7707 - 7036. I just hope I recognize anyone who tries to add me.
I just started, so I don't know what kind of trading help I'll need to populate my pokedex. I know that not having a second DS/3DS will make it hard to get non-X/Y Pokemon before gen 4 due to not being able to trade to Black/White where PokemonBank can handle the rest. I'm hoping the gen 3 remakes make things easier.
It's actually pretty easy with the GTS, other than the legendaries.
-
Mega Altaria looks great. Fluffier than ever. Mega Lopunny looks alright, and more interesting than regular Lopunny (I always found it mildly disturbing, actually). Mega Salamence looks a little strange with that new wing shape.
Still hoping for Mega Flygon.
Also, there is currently an NA event for the pokeball pattern Vivillon. It's very limited though, so get it now.
So, can I add some of you guys, if not for Pokemon then maybe for the new Smash Bros. when it comes out on 3DS?
My friend code is 3840 - 7707 - 7036. I just hope I recognize anyone who tries to add me.
I just started, so I don't know what kind of trading help I'll need to populate my pokedex. I know that not having a second DS/3DS will make it hard to get non-X/Y Pokemon before gen 4 due to not being able to trade to Black/White where PokemonBank can handle the rest. I'm hoping the gen 3 remakes make things easier.
It's actually pretty easy with the GTS, other than the legendaries.
Looking through earlier posts on this thread, I'm hoping I can get some decent stuff by trading polar pattern Vivillons
-
The Korean Pokémon site accidentally leaked Mega Slowbro and Mega Audino, which I think is the first 5th-gen Mega Evolution we've seen. I am a big fan of Mega Slowbro's design. Shell Armor isn't the snazziest ability, but what can you do. Mega Audino gains the Fairy type, making it Normal/Fairy.
-
Mega Slowbro is hilarious. I love it.
-
There is currently an online event to get Pinsir/Heracross (version exclusives) which corresponds with a Gamestop event to get their corresponding mega stones. Unfortunately, it seems to be US only.
It's done with a code though. You go in, you ask the cashier, they give you a one-use code that you enter into Mystery Gift to get the stone. If somebody could get me an extra code, I would appreciate it. OTOH, I'm probably not going to be using either one. It's more just a completionist thing.
If it makes a difference, I have Pokemon X, which means that the stone I'm missing is Heracronite.
-
So, can I add some of you guys, if not for Pokemon then maybe for the new Smash Bros. when it comes out on 3DS?
My friend code is 3840 - 7707 - 7036. I just hope I recognize anyone who tries to add me.
I just started, so I don't know what kind of trading help I'll need to populate my pokedex. I know that not having a second DS/3DS will make it hard to get non-X/Y Pokemon before gen 4 due to not being able to trade to Black/White where PokemonBank can handle the rest. I'm hoping the gen 3 remakes make things easier.
Slightly late saying this, but you can't just hope other people add your FC - you both need to add each other. It can be kinda a shame but you know.
-
So, can I add some of you guys, if not for Pokemon then maybe for the new Smash Bros. when it comes out on 3DS?
My friend code is 3840 - 7707 - 7036. I just hope I recognize anyone who tries to add me.
I just started, so I don't know what kind of trading help I'll need to populate my pokedex. I know that not having a second DS/3DS will make it hard to get non-X/Y Pokemon before gen 4 due to not being able to trade to Black/White where PokemonBank can handle the rest. I'm hoping the gen 3 remakes make things easier.
Slightly late saying this, but you can't just hope other people add your FC - you both need to add each other. It can be kinda a shame but you know.
I figured people would repost their FC's if they were interested. No one did. Thanks for the info though. I'm a very new user to the 3DS.
-
Well, it's an old thread (I only just checked it). I'd be happy to add you, but don't intend to buy Smash 4 on 3DS (I'm gonna get the Wii U version... much easier to play 4 player locally).
My FC is 3523-3415-0449 if you do want to add me. If you do add me let me know you did.
-
Well, it's an old thread (I only just checked it). I'd be happy to add you, but don't intend to buy Smash 4 on 3DS (I'm gonna get the Wii U version... much easier to play 4 player locally).
My FC is 3523-3415-0449 if you do want to add me. If you do add me let me know you did.
Alright, I added you.
-
Added you too, but I'm not really online very often now.
0748-2612-6651
-
Added you too, but I'm not really online very often now.
0748-2612-6651
Cool. I'm on vacation for a few more days, so I'll add you the next time I have access to wifi.
-
I finally made it to 200 wins in the Battle Maison, earning myself a Starf Berry as reward! I tried maybe a dozen times in Super Doubles, usually losing somewhere in the 150 range, but I finally made it in Super Triples.
Here's my team:
Greninja @ Life Orb
Protean
Timid (+Spd, -Atk)
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spd
- Mat Block
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Grass Knot
lv. 1 Aron @ Berry Juice
Sturdy
Nature and EVs unimportant
- Endeavor
- Protect
- Swagger
- Toxic
(Swagger and Toxic are filler moves. Not really anything else would be more helpful. Berry Juice is better than Shell Bell because the latter does not heal automatically, which matters if two opponents manage to attack Aron in the same turn.)
Rotom-W @ Leftovers
Levitate
Modest (+SpA, -Atk)
252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpDef
- Discharge
- Shadow Ball
- Hydro Pump
- Volt Switch
Kanghaskan @ Kangaskhanite
Scrappy // Parental Bond
Jolly (+Spd, - SpA)
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
- Fake Out
- Power-Up Punch
- Return
- Sucker Punch
Togekiss @ Choice Scarf
Serene Grace
Timid (+Spd, -Atk)
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spd
- Air Slash
- Dazzling Gleam
- Psychic
- Aura Sphere
(Modest might be a better nature. When I bred this Togekiss, I hadn't yet decided on a set or held item and was thinking about using Thunder Wave on the set. I preferred having the up-front speed though. Not sure if Timid + Choice Scarf is helpful or overkill. I think Flamethrower may be more useful than Psychic as well. I don't think I actually used Psychic in this run, though it's nice for safety against Poison types.)
Garchomp @ Expert Belt
Sand Veil
Jolly (+Spd, -SpA)
4 HP/ 252 Atk / 252 Spd
- Earthquake
- Outrage
- Brick Break
- Rock Slide
(Dragon Claw might be better than Outrage. I rarely used Outrage anyway; the confusion didn't matter so much as being unable to choose a target. Also, Rough Skin is probably better than Sand Veil, which had almost no application at all. I just didn't manage to breed for it. And Expert Belt is mostly a filler item here...)
The typical strategy: Greninja uses Mat Block on turn 1, Aron uses Endeavor on the biggest threat, and Rotom does whatever it can. Turn 2 is often Surf/Protect/Discharge. This often results in KO-ing the entire opposing side without taking any damage at all, because the AI usually targets Aron. From there, Aron alternates Endeavor and Protect while the others try to take out threats before they can harm Aron. Aron can take 3 hits thanks to Berry Juice, soaking up a lot of damage.
Sometimes Aron uses Protect at the very start, when the opposing side has something that outspeeds Greninja, or has priority moves. It's important if the opponent has Fake Out, which would completely unravel the opening gambit. It's good if I can OHKO the fast threat (e.g. Ice Beam vs. Crobat or Aerodactyl).
The most dangerous opening scenario is when there is a Jolteon, Electrode or Choice Scarf Manectric opposite Greninja. All three are faster than Greninja and will target Greninja with a OHKO electric attack just as often as they target Aron. In these cases, I've taken to switching Greninja for Garchomp, hopefully nullifying the electric attack. Whether Aron attacks or protects depends on what Rotom can accomplish.
It's an extremely reliable team if you have decent prediction. The key thing is to know when fast/priority attacks are going to hit Aron, and to predict when the AI will opt to ignore Aron, e.g. grass type attacks will often target Rotom or Greninja (first turn, or after surfing) instead.
There are some fun synergies on the team. Togekiss and Rotom are both immune to Garchomp's Earthquake. Garchomp is immune to Rotom's Discharge. Kangaskhan can save Aron from one attack when it comes out, thanks to Fake Out. Togekiss can often provide even more flinch support with Air Slash.
Kangaskhan deserves special mention for packing a priority move in Sucker Punch, and Togekiss should be noted for being able to hit non-adjacent pokemon with Air Slash or Aura Sphere, which offers a lot of flexibility. Aura Sphere is also noteworthy for ignoring accuracy and evasion modifiers, which helps against Double Team users (I never had to face that in my triples run though).
For a potentially better team, check out this article (http://nuggetbridge.com/articles/like-ability-capsule-1000w-0l-triple-maison-team-report/). I really like having Togekiss and Kangaskhan though, and Rotom has been a really dependable lead. If I were to change something, it would be to try the same Garchomp lead as in that article, and then swap Rotom for Tyranitar. It would be nice to have a way to get around Hail, though I managed to get through it just fine.
-
The fact that you can use FEAR strategies in this setting makes me sad. Nothing against you, eHalcyon, but I've always considered them to be complete bullshit. Although I did have a big laugh once in 4th gen running an anti-FEAR strategy against a Doubles team I knew had a FEARgle. This was back when Future Sight's damage was calculated at the time of its usage. So I used Future Sight on the Lv1 Smeargle and then killed it off with Wrap from my Shuckle. Two turns later, the Snorlax in that spot was one-shotted by the Future Sight damage. True story.
-
I used a Qwilfish with Swift Swim and Destiny Bond in Ubers. He was good.
-
The fact that you can use FEAR strategies in this setting makes me sad. Nothing against you, eHalcyon, but I've always considered them to be complete bullshit. Although I did have a big laugh once in 4th gen running an anti-FEAR strategy against a Doubles team I knew had a FEARgle. This was back when Future Sight's damage was calculated at the time of its usage. So I used Future Sight on the Lv1 Smeargle and then killed it off with Wrap from my Shuckle. Two turns later, the Snorlax in that spot was one-shotted by the Future Sight damage. True story.
FWIW, Battle Maison is a grind, and running a FEAR strategy there does still take some skill. FEAR is only half the battle anyway. :P It's by no means a guaranteed win (as my many super doubles attempts will demonstrate). It's also pretty terrible for super singles since it gets foiled by a ghost lead. When the Maison features ridiculous AI luck like this Walrein sweep (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0WSB6TFQ9o), I'm happy to abuse FEAR Aron when I can. It wasn't an option when I got the 50 wins trophy for singles, and it was definitely not an option for super multi (in which you pair up with an AI partner who is not very bright).
I also got to 50 in Super Triples without Aron, but there were a couple close calls on the way there. I just wanted to get the stupid Starf berry. :P
-
Perhaps we'll see Mega Camerupt and Mega Wailord, the two favored Pokémon of Team Magma and Team Aqua, respectively.
Sharpedo is Team Aqua's favored Pokemon. It has the same BST as Camerupt! In any case, I wouldn't object to Mega Sharpedo.
Oh, yeah. I played Ruby, so I misremembered this. I thought it was Wailord, since it learns Water Spout and Camerupt learns Eruption. Sharpedo needs a boost anyway.
Mega Sharpedo and Mega Camerupt confirmed, along with Mega Gallade.
-
Not sure how I feel about the designs. I like Camerupt, but the mega seems a little flat. Sharpedo suffers from having lots of unnecessary embellishment, like many other megas. Gallade is the opposite, lacking any real defining feature... hm.
(I'd like to reiterate my request for somebody to get me a megastone code from Gamestop before the event ends. Please? :P)
-
Not sure how I feel about the designs. I like Camerupt, but the mega seems a little flat. Sharpedo suffers from having lots of unnecessary embellishment, like many other megas. Gallade is the opposite, lacking any real defining feature... hm.
Looking at the small screenshot, it looks like Mega Camerupt has a much more mountainous shape. Also, the art makes it look like it has more of an attitude. It's growing on me. Mega Sharpedo does look a bit overloaded. Now that I look closer, it appears that Mega Gallade has a sort of double cape, which is probably going to be the easiest way to differentiate it from normal Gallade. Its head and arms look a bit different too, but mostly it's the capes.
Sounds like the stat distributions are going to be good, as expected based on the Mega Evolutions in X and Y. Sharpedo gets a boost in all 5 stats and Camerupt gets a drop in Speed (and of course those points get redistributed to areas where they can actually do some good). I'm hoping Camerupt gets some really massive Defense and SpDef boosts. That's what it really needs.
Seeing Mega Camerupt makes me think there won't be a Mega Torkoal any time soon, which is too bad. I had a Torkoal on my 4th gen Doubles Sunny Day team.
-
Sharpedo! <3
-
Yay, now I don't have to feel so bad about using Gallade over Gardevoir.
-
Yay, now I don't have to feel so bad about using Gallade over Gardevoir.
Ability revealed: Inner Focus. Not that great, hm.
Also thinking about Mega Camerupt's ability. Sheer Force is amazing, but it'll be less effective on a mega because it can't abuse recoil-less Life Orb. Also not sure what a typical Camerupt can get use with it... Earth Power, Rock Slide and a fire move of your choice with burn chance, for a mixed set?
-
Yay, now I don't have to feel so bad about using Gallade over Gardevoir.
Ability revealed: Inner Focus. Not that great, hm.
It's fantastic in Doubles. Prevents Fake Out. Mega evolution happens before Fake Out, so it's nice to be able to mega evolve Gallade first turn and still have that protection.
Also thinking about Mega Camerupt's ability. Sheer Force is amazing, but it'll be less effective on a mega because it can't abuse recoil-less Life Orb. Also not sure what a typical Camerupt can get use with it... Earth Power, Rock Slide and a fire move of your choice with burn chance, for a mixed set?
I guess. I'll take a closer look at its set later. Also, it's possible it'll get new moves. Some other Pokémon already have new moves confirmed (Audino gets Misty Terrain I think, and Lopunny gets High Jump Kick).
-
Yay, now I don't have to feel so bad about using Gallade over Gardevoir.
Ability revealed: Inner Focus. Not that great, hm.
It's fantastic in Doubles. Prevents Fake Out. Mega evolution happens before Fake Out, so it's nice to be able to mega evolve Gallade first turn and still have that protection.
Also thinking about Mega Camerupt's ability. Sheer Force is amazing, but it'll be less effective on a mega because it can't abuse recoil-less Life Orb. Also not sure what a typical Camerupt can get use with it... Earth Power, Rock Slide and a fire move of your choice with burn chance, for a mixed set?
I guess. I'll take a closer look at its set later. Also, it's possible it'll get new moves. Some other Pokémon already have new moves confirmed (Audino gets Misty Terrain I think, and Lopunny gets High Jump Kick).
Fair enough for doubles.
I expect Sharpedo will get the elemental fangs. Not sure what Camerupt could gain. Flare Blitz? Zen Headbutt?
-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuaL_hMpPaM
In-game models for the new pokemon look better than the art. In particular, the Mega-Sharpedo art doesn't really match. The model doesn't seem to have the saw-shark spikes on its snout.
Also, the new abilities have been revealed. They create their respective weather conditions, prevent the opponent from changing the weather, and block attacks of the opposing (P-Groudon's Desolate Land causes water attacks to evaporate and P-Kyogre's Primordial Sea causes fire attacks to fizzle). serebii also reports that these weather conditions are permanent but fade when the pokemon is switched out.
I'm curious how the abilities will interact when the two face off against each other. Will the faster one set the weather and then prevent the other from changing it? Will the abilities be powerful enough that the slower one (or later switch in) turns the weather to its favour? Maybe they would duel back and forth and turn the weather back on their respective turns?
Also curious how they'll interact with Air Lock and Cloud Nine. It would be interesting if Rayquaza's Air Lock (or P-Rayquaza's amped up version) were the only way to cancel out the primal weather, with Cloud Nine being too meager to block it.
Since the weather effects fade when the pokemon switch out, it seems to me that P-Groudon gains more than P-Kyogre. Kyogre already resisted fire attacks, with or without rain, whereas Groudon was weak to water without sunlight. With its new typing, blocking water attacks is even better for it.
I'm curious which version you guys will be going for. Personally, I lean towards Omega Ruby. Groudon's design has always appealed to me more than Kyogre's.
-
Really enjoying the designs for Mega Gallade and Mega Camerupt. Mega Sharpedo is my least favorite mega so far though. So much embellishment for the sake of embellishment. I guess I like that the game itself doesn't add all of it in, but it's weird/amateurish that the game wouldn't match the official art. Unless it's a gender difference, which actually strikes me as pretty possible.
-
Really enjoying the designs for Mega Gallade and Mega Camerupt. Mega Sharpedo is my least favorite mega so far though. So much embellishment for the sake of embellishment. I guess I like that the game itself doesn't add all of it in, but it's weird/amateurish that the game wouldn't match the official art. Unless it's a gender difference, which actually strikes me as pretty possible.
It's also possible that either the art or the footage are out of date, or that the spikes are retractable and come out during attacks.
-
Really enjoying the designs for Mega Gallade and Mega Camerupt. Mega Sharpedo is my least favorite mega so far though. So much embellishment for the sake of embellishment. I guess I like that the game itself doesn't add all of it in, but it's weird/amateurish that the game wouldn't match the official art. Unless it's a gender difference, which actually strikes me as pretty possible.
It's also possible that either the art or the footage are out of date, or that the spikes are retractable and come out during attacks.
Good points. Although the first options are pretty amateurish. Spikes coming out during attacks would actually be pretty cool.
-
I got an email from Nintendo with a code for that megastone. Not sure if it's Canada only or if other regions got it as well.
-
Mega Rayquaza! I like it.
-
Mega Rayquaza! I like it.
I don't use legendaries myself, but Mega Rayquaza sure looks cool! I like the idea of the new Delta Stream ability.
It was easy to see this coming, but I'm surprised it's Mega Rayquaza rather than Primal Rayquaza.
-
Sooooo the only Pokemon game I'm familiar with is the Red Version. And I'm talking the old school black and white Red Version. I have a GBA (I'm so behind) so I'm looking into Sapphire, Ruby, etc. Any thoughts on what I should pick up/avoid?
-
Sooooo the only Pokemon game I'm familiar with is the Red Version. And I'm talking the old school black and white Red Version. I have a GBA (I'm so behind) so I'm looking into Sapphire, Ruby, etc. Any thoughts on what I should pick up/avoid?
Are you looking into the original Ruby/Sapphire? I'd recommend just getting a 3DS and one of the new games. X and Y are pretty great! Plus if you go into it blind, after skipping several generations, there will be so many new pokemon that it will feel a lot like it did when you played the very first game.
If you don't want to go all the way up to a 3DS, maybe consider trying Heart Gold/Soul Silver on the original DS. They are the remakes of Gold/Silver, which came immediately after Red/Blue/Yellow. They remain fan favourites and have one of the best features from any pokemon game ever -- your lead pokemon will actually follow you in the overworld.
I'd bet that you could find it on an emulator if you can't get access to a DS.
-
Sooooo the only Pokemon game I'm familiar with is the Red Version. And I'm talking the old school black and white Red Version. I have a GBA (I'm so behind) so I'm looking into Sapphire, Ruby, etc. Any thoughts on what I should pick up/avoid?
Probably you want Emerald. It's got the most content of all the 3rd gen games.
-
I want a 3DS but don't want to spend that much money. I see a Pokemon Emerald on ebay that's ending in about 7 minutes. I think I'll go up to about $20 or so. Thanks for the advice!
EDIT: I'm really not up to date on emulators at all. I wouldn't know where to start.
-
Nevermind, ebay became ebay in the final minute and I'm not interested in paying that much. So let's continue this discussion. Is Emerald the last version released on GBA?
-
Nevermind, ebay became ebay in the final minute and I'm not interested in paying that much. So let's continue this discussion. Is Emerald the last version released on GBA?
I believe so. If you're nostalgic for Red, you could buy Fire Red instead. Same generation (GBA), but it's a remake of Pokémon Red for the Game Boy. It's got extra post-game content, though. And of course it has all the moves, abilities, and other features that were introduced between 1st gen and 3rd gen.
-
Nevermind, ebay became ebay in the final minute and I'm not interested in paying that much. So let's continue this discussion. Is Emerald the last version released on GBA?
I believe so. If you're nostalgic for Red, you could buy Fire Red instead. Same generation (GBA), but it's a remake of Pokémon Red for the Game Boy. It's got extra post-game content, though. And of course it has all the moves, abilities, and other features that were introduced between 1st gen and 3rd gen.
Well I've still got my Game Boy Pocket and my Red Version so despite the archaic black and white gameplay, I'd feel like I'm not getting my money's worth by buying a remake.
-
I believe you can get a refurbished DS Lite from Gamestop for about $60. Is that within your price range?
-
I could do that. I'm not up to date on the whole DS format, do DS Lite and 3DS share the same games? What's a DS Lite anyway? I should research all of this.
EDIT: Ok I did some reading on Wikipedia. So with a DS Lite I can still play GBA games. That rocks. DSi and 3DS don't have GBA slots. That sucks. So it sounds like DS Lite is the way to go for me.
-
I could do that. I'm not up to date on the whole DS format, do DS Lite and 3DS share the same games? What's a DS Lite anyway? I should research all of this.
EDIT: Ok I did some reading on Wikipedia. So with a DS Lite I can still play GBA games. That rocks. DSi and 3DS don't have GBA slots. That sucks. So it sounds like DS Lite is the way to go for me.
DS Lite can't play 3DS games. It's basically the previous generation of Nintendo handhelds. DSi is in the same generation, though it does lack the GBA slot. But since it's older, you can get a refurbished one pretty cheap and still look around for various other games. DS Lite can play the fourth gen AND fifth gen pokemon games:
Diamond/Pearl, Platinum
Heart Gold/Soul Silver (gen 2 remakes)
Black/White, Black2/White2
Plus you should be able to find various other games that would interest you, e.g. Zelda: Phantom Hourglass, Zelda: Spirit Tracks.
-
Ok! I just picked up a used DS Lite for $20 but the charger wasn't included. Would a GBA charger work? Gonna research the different Pokemon games you listed. Thanks!
-
Ok! I just picked up a used DS Lite for $20 but the charger wasn't included. Would a GBA charger work? Gonna research the different Pokemon games you listed. Thanks!
No idea about the charger. If the plug fits then it's probably fine.
-
If you mean the charger for the GBA SP, I don't think it will.
-
Stopped by the local record/video game store and I had the choice of Phantom Hourglass (with case) or Pokemon Pearl (no case), both being $20. I took but I'll pick up a Pokemon game soon enough. Thanks for all the advice!
-
Stopped by the local record/video game store and I had the choice of Phantom Hourglass (with case) or Pokemon Pearl (no case), both being $20. I took but I'll pick up a Pokemon game soon enough. Thanks for all the advice!
You took? You took what? God I can't take this uncertainty any longer, tell us Andrew, TELL US!!!
-
Stopped by the local record/video game store and I had the choice of Phantom Hourglass (with case) or Pokemon Pearl (no case), both being $20. I took but I'll pick up a Pokemon game soon enough. Thanks for all the advice!
You took? You took what? God I can't take this uncertainty any longer, tell us Andrew, TELL US!!!
From context I infer that Andrew went for the Zelda game. Trust my mad detective skills.
-
Oh sorry, yes I took the Zelda game. And now I just noticed I'm missing the stylus. Great.
-
Oh sorry, yes I took the Zelda game. And now I just noticed I'm missing the stylus. Great.
You can buy a new one. You could also probably make your own.
You could also just use your finger, though it would be less precise.
-
Oh sorry, yes I took the Zelda game. And now I just noticed I'm missing the stylus. Great.
You can buy a new one. You could also probably make your own.
You could also just use your finger, though it would be less precise.
I looked on ebay and I could buy 10 for $1. Or 50 for $2. Or 100...
-
Oh sorry, yes I took the Zelda game. And now I just noticed I'm missing the stylus. Great.
You can buy a new one. You could also probably make your own.
You could also just use your finger, though it would be less precise.
I looked on ebay and I could buy 10 for $1. Or 50 for $2. Or 100...
but I bet they won't let you get 1 for $0.10. That's how they get you. Force you to buy in bulk when you only need one.
-
buy 10 for $1, then sell 9 for $0.50 each.
-
What's the shipping though?
-
Mega Beedrill and Mega Pidgeot revealed, along with Mega Latias and Mega Latios. I thought it was a hoax when hackers found Mega Latias and Mega Latios and they looked exactly the same, but apparently that's really how they look.
I'm pretty psyched about Mega Beedrill and Mega Pidgeot, though; two Pokemon that actually really needed a boost. Mega Beedrill has Attack and Speed boosts (as you might expect) and its ability is Adaptability, which I guess is decent. Pin Missile is actually quite powerful now and Poison Jab is usable. Thinking about it, it's probably better than Skill Link would have been, although Beedrill might need a bigger boost, like Huge Power, to be worth it.
Mega Pidgeot has No Guard and seems like it'll have a SpAtk boost. As a special attacker with a no-miss Hurricane, it's finally differentiating itself from Fearow, Dodrio, Staraptor, Unfezant, etc.
-
I am a little sad that Pidgeot's glorious SS3 hair gets shorter in mega form.
Is a fully accurate Hurricane enough to make No Guard a good ability? Pidgeot doesn't really have any other powerful, low accuracy moves right now. Its movepool is pretty shallow in general. Not sure what they could give it that would make sense.
-
I am a little sad that Pidgeot's glorious SS3 hair gets shorter in mega form.
Is a fully accurate Hurricane enough to make No Guard a good ability? Pidgeot doesn't really have any other powerful, low accuracy moves right now. Its movepool is pretty shallow in general. Not sure what they could give it that would make sense.
He's not red with black hair? :(
-
I am a little sad that Pidgeot's glorious SS3 hair gets shorter in mega form.
Is a fully accurate Hurricane enough to make No Guard a good ability? Pidgeot doesn't really have any other powerful, low accuracy moves right now. Its movepool is pretty shallow in general. Not sure what they could give it that would make sense.
Well, they could give it Blizzard or Focus Blast without it being too weird. Maybe Supersonic. If these games have move tutors, perhaps it'll have Heat Wave again.
EDIT:
I am a little sad that Pidgeot's glorious SS3 hair gets shorter in mega form.
Except for that one plume that's longer than its wingspan. That's kind of cool.
-
I am a little sad that Pidgeot's glorious SS3 hair gets shorter in mega form.
Is a fully accurate Hurricane enough to make No Guard a good ability? Pidgeot doesn't really have any other powerful, low accuracy moves right now. Its movepool is pretty shallow in general. Not sure what they could give it that would make sense.
Well, they could give it Blizzard or Focus Blast without it being too weird. Maybe Supersonic. If these games have move tutors, perhaps it'll have Heat Wave again.
EDIT:
I am a little sad that Pidgeot's glorious SS3 hair gets shorter in mega form.
Except for that one plume that's longer than its wingspan. That's kind of cool.
Oops, did not notice that long strand. That is cool.
They could give Pidgeot Sing and it would still make sense. But never-miss sleep is probably too powerful.
-
Just ordered Pokemon Black. What should I expect?
-
All brand new pokemon, at least until the post-game (after you beat the Elite Four). Most generations included pokemon from previous generations but Black/White were intended to make it feel like a new adventure or something. You'll see some analogs for pokemon from gen I. Some of the names of gen V pokemon are really groan-worthy, which may be a positive or negative depending on your view.
Of all the generations, gen V had my least favourite set of starters. But the storyline is somewhat interesting. There are some really neat pokemon designs too:
- the Chandelure line is one of my favourite designs with an awesome Ghost/Fire typing
- Ferrothorn was an instant hit for me because I had been wishing for a Grass/Steel pokemon
- Volcarona looks amazing.
- Excadrill is cool.
- Golurk is hilarious because it can use Fly. It's Ground/Ghost and the only justification I can think of is that it looks like a gundam.
- Jellicent is great because the male version looks like the Pringles mascot.
I still recommend Heart Gold or Soul Silver above the others right now. Maybe Diamond/Pearl/Platinum simply because they have my favourite set of starters from any generation so far.
-
Mega Steelix and Mega Glalie confirmed. At least one Pokémon on my Hoenn dex wishlist gets a Mega Evolution (Glalie). Mega Steelix has Sand Force. Mega Glalie has Refrigerate. That's right, suckers! Boosted, Ice-type Explosion has arrived!
-
Mega Steelix and Mega Glalie confirmed. At least one Pokémon on my Hoenn dex wishlist gets a Mega Evolution (Glalie). Mega Steelix has Sand Force. Mega Glalie has Refrigerate. That's right, suckers! Boosted, Ice-type Explosion has arrived!
I am OK with those designs. Glalie looks creepier than ever. :P
Apparently US and Canada demo codes will be sent via Trainer Club newsletter on Oct 21, so look forward to that...
-
Mega Steelix and Mega Glalie confirmed. At least one Pokémon on my Hoenn dex wishlist gets a Mega Evolution (Glalie). Mega Steelix has Sand Force. Mega Glalie has Refrigerate. That's right, suckers! Boosted, Ice-type Explosion has arrived!
I am OK with those designs. Glalie looks creepier than ever. :P
Apparently US and Canada demo codes will be sent via Trainer Club newsletter on Oct 21, so look forward to that...
Yeah, I can't decide whether or not to get the demo. The game comes out soon and I'll probably still be playing Legend of Grimrock 2. Though obviously I could play the demo on the train. Decisions…
-
Mega Steelix and Mega Glalie confirmed. At least one Pokémon on my Hoenn dex wishlist gets a Mega Evolution (Glalie). Mega Steelix has Sand Force. Mega Glalie has Refrigerate. That's right, suckers! Boosted, Ice-type Explosion has arrived!
I am OK with those designs. Glalie looks creepier than ever. :P
Apparently US and Canada demo codes will be sent via Trainer Club newsletter on Oct 21, so look forward to that...
Yeah, I can't decide whether or not to get the demo. The game comes out soon and I'll probably still be playing Legend of Grimrock 2. Though obviously I could play the demo on the train. Decisions…
There was that hint that something special happens if you play it every day. It probably won't be very impressive, but still....
-
If anyone have a UK demo code or two over, I'd be interested. ;)
-
serebii says UK should also get codes sent through email?
I got mine yesterday. Played through it once, will pace myself. Still undecided about which starter to get in the actual game.
Do you all plan on getting Ruby or Sapphire? I'm leaning towards Ruby for Groudon, though I think I like the Team Aqua personalities more.
-
Update for those who care:
I've been steadily playing Black and it rocks. I was hanging out with a friend yesterday and he decided he didn't neef his DS games anymore so he gave me Soulsilver (with case), Platinum, Spirit Tracks (with case), and the case for Black which he would've given me had I inquired earlier. So anyway, I'll be in my apartment if you need me, see you in a few months!
-
serebii says UK should also get codes sent through email?
I got mine yesterday. Played through it once, will pace myself. Still undecided about which starter to get in the actual game.
Do you all plan on getting Ruby or Sapphire? I'm leaning towards Ruby for Groudon, though I think I like the Team Aqua personalities more.
I preordered Sapphire. Don't know why I picked it over Ruby. Never played the 3rd gen original series, so I just picked Sapphire on a whim.
-
I played Ruby back in the day. I guess I'll probably play it again? I usually make these decisions based on which Pokémon are exclusive to each game, although that information is less likely to be immediately available now that the games have simultaneous global releases.
In 5th gen, I got White and White2 over Black and Black2 because the White games emphasized Triple Battles (and I'm way into Double Battles), as opposed to the Black games' emphasis on Rotation Battles.
-
I usually get the game with the less cool legendary. Since those games tend to have the most fun version exclusive monsters. I have a couple of friends who also play, so it won't really matter much.
-
Update for those who care:
I've been steadily playing Black and it rocks. I was hanging out with a friend yesterday and he decided he didn't neef his DS games anymore so he gave me Soulsilver (with case), Platinum, Spirit Tracks (with case), and the case for Black which he would've given me had I inquired earlier. So anyway, I'll be in my apartment if you need me, see you in a few months!
When you're done, tell us which you liked best. If you're not too far into Black, it might be fun to switch to Soul Silver first, then Platinum, then back to Black to get them in generational order (minus gen 3).
I usually get the game with the less cool legendary. Since those games tend to have the most fun version exclusive monsters. I have a couple of friends who also play, so it won't really matter much.
That's so subjective though!
-
Yeah I'm halfway through Black but my friend was telling me to do Soulsilver too so why not?
-
Yeah I'm halfway through Black but my friend was telling me to do Soulsilver too so why not?
I heard Soulsilver is really good. For me, it brings the nostalgia of Pokemon Stadium 2. It's hard to find where I am though, and they discontinued DS internet network. If you have a second DS, you can trade to Pokemon Black, and from there use PokeBank to bring it over from Black to X.
I also want to play Pokemon Black that I bought. I just want to finish X first. Smash Bros. is getting in the way.
-
Stuck at the Azalea gym in Soulsilver. There's no available fire pokemon to take down the Scyther and I've already beat every trainer so I have to fight lvl. 6 Zubats for hours on end to train my Hoothoot. So boring.
-
Stuck at the Azalea gym in Soulsilver. There's no available fire pokemon to take down the Scyther and I've already beat every trainer so I have to fight lvl. 6 Zubats for hours on end to train my Hoothoot. So boring.
That one is a classic place to be stuck. Any rock pokemon around? I don't remember very well.
-
Stuck at the Azalea gym in Soulsilver. There's no available fire pokemon to take down the Scyther and I've already beat every trainer so I have to fight lvl. 6 Zubats for hours on end to train my Hoothoot. So boring.
That one is a classic place to be stuck. Any rock pokemon around? I don't remember very well.
I've got an Onix but it gets beat up. Bug> Rock right?
-
Uh, no. Rock>Bug, and Rock>Flying, and Scyther only has physical attacks, so it should be a pretty easy matchup as long as your Onyx isn't way lower level compared to that Scyther.
-
Uh, no. Rock>Bug, and Rock>Flying, and Scyther only has physical attacks, so it should be a pretty easy matchup as long as your Onyx isn't way lower level compared to that Scyther.
Wow, that solved my problem REAL quick. I guess I was using the wrong attack with Onyx or something. Thanks!
-
Stuck at the Azalea gym in Soulsilver. There's no available fire pokemon to take down the Scyther and I've already beat every trainer so I have to fight lvl. 6 Zubats for hours on end to train my Hoothoot. So boring.
In Johto I always start Cyndaquil, so bugs were never a problem. :P
You have access to Union Cave, right? There are Geodude there, with Rock Throw at level 11. Also Onix (rare at 5%), with Rock Throw at level 9. They're at higher levels deeper in the cave.
You should also have picked up TM39 Rock Tomb in Union Cave, which would be 4x effective against Scyther. You could teach it to Totodile. This may not be a palatable choice if you hoard TMs like I did (they became unlimited use in gen V though). But if you aren't a hoarder, it's fine to "waste" Rock Tomb because it's rather weak in the late game (in gen IV only 50 base power and 80% accuracy). It's decent early on though.
Also, if you really want to train Hoothoot, you can wander into Ilex Forest and beat on more bugs instead of Zubat.
Edit: Oops, I missed a bunch of extra messages. Yeah, Rock squishes Bug. :P
-
Back in Generation II, that Scyther had Fury Cutter. If you mucked around a bit, he destroyed your team quite easily, so trying to soften him a bit before switching in your starter was a bad idea. Especially if you were like me and picked chikorita for some reason.
-
I traded a Cottonee for an Onyx and taught it Rock Throw. I think my problem was I had it in my head that Rocck was weak against Bug (which is ridiculous now that I think about it) and so I never tried Rock Throw.
-
I traded a Cottonee for an Onyx and taught it Rock Throw. I think my problem was I had it in my head that Rocck was weak against Bug (which is ridiculous now that I think about it) and so I never tried Rock Throw.
Do you mean that it learned Rock Throw by level up? It's not a TM, and it's more of a waste to teach Onix Rock Tomb by TM because it learns it naturally (I think). And Rock Throw is more accurate, though it doesn't lower the opponent's speed like Rock Tomb does.
Also... isn't Cottonee gen V? How did you get one in Soul Silver? Or are you mixing up SS and Black?
Edit: Or you traded a Bellsprout, most likely. That was a thing.
-
I traded a Cottonee for an Onyx and taught it Rock Throw. I think my problem was I had it in my head that Rocck was weak against Bug (which is ridiculous now that I think about it) and so I never tried Rock Throw.
Do you mean that it learned Rock Throw by level up? It's not a TM, and it's more of a waste to teach Onix Rock Tomb by TM because it learns it naturally (I think).
Also... isn't Cottonee gen V? How did you get one in Soul Silver? Or are you mixing up SS and Black?
Sorry I meant Rock Smash. And yeah I'm all confused but I traded something for Onyx, his name is Rocky!
EDIT: OK! My Onyx knows both Rock Throw and Rock Smash, I can't remember where it got what but you guys probably know. Sorry I'm confused about everything.
-
I traded a Cottonee for an Onyx and taught it Rock Throw. I think my problem was I had it in my head that Rocck was weak against Bug (which is ridiculous now that I think about it) and so I never tried Rock Throw.
Do you mean that it learned Rock Throw by level up? It's not a TM, and it's more of a waste to teach Onix Rock Tomb by TM because it learns it naturally (I think).
Also... isn't Cottonee gen V? How did you get one in Soul Silver? Or are you mixing up SS and Black?
Sorry I meant Rock Smash. And yeah I'm all confused but I traded something for Onyx, his name is Rocky!
Rock Smash is actually really bad against Scyther, don't use it! Despite the name, it is a Fighting type attack, which Scyther doubly resists (1/4x damage).
-
I traded a Cottonee for an Onyx and taught it Rock Throw. I think my problem was I had it in my head that Rocck was weak against Bug (which is ridiculous now that I think about it) and so I never tried Rock Throw.
Do you mean that it learned Rock Throw by level up? It's not a TM, and it's more of a waste to teach Onix Rock Tomb by TM because it learns it naturally (I think).
Also... isn't Cottonee gen V? How did you get one in Soul Silver? Or are you mixing up SS and Black?
Sorry I meant Rock Smash. And yeah I'm all confused but I traded something for Onyx, his name is Rocky!
Rock Smash is actually really bad against Scyther, don't use it! Despite the name, it is a Fighting type attack, which Scyther doubly resists (1/4x damage).
I used Rock Throw in the battle and it took him down pretty easily.
-
I traded a Cottonee for an Onyx and taught it Rock Throw. I think my problem was I had it in my head that Rocck was weak against Bug (which is ridiculous now that I think about it) and so I never tried Rock Throw.
Do you mean that it learned Rock Throw by level up? It's not a TM, and it's more of a waste to teach Onix Rock Tomb by TM because it learns it naturally (I think).
Also... isn't Cottonee gen V? How did you get one in Soul Silver? Or are you mixing up SS and Black?
Sorry I meant Rock Smash. And yeah I'm all confused but I traded something for Onyx, his name is Rocky!
Rock Smash is actually really bad against Scyther, don't use it! Despite the name, it is a Fighting type attack, which Scyther doubly resists (1/4x damage).
I used Rock Throw in the battle and it took him down pretty easily.
Yep, Rock Throw is the way to go.
And just a reminder, the pokemon is Onix, which is similar to the real life mineral onyx.
-
Ah ok, I could've sworn it was spelled Onyx in Gen I but I could be wrong.
-
You should stream your playthrough, somehow.
Or just give us updates. What's your team? Have you given them nicknames? What are their natures and characteristics?
-
You should stream your playthrough, somehow.
Or just give us updates. What's your team? Have you given them nicknames? What are their natures and characteristics?
Not sure how entertaining a stream would be but I can give updates. What's with the team thing? I think I just skipped it because I assumed it had something to do with interacting online which I don't think is possible anymore.
-
You should stream your playthrough, somehow.
Or just give us updates. What's your team? Have you given them nicknames? What are their natures and characteristics?
Not sure how entertaining a stream would be but I can give updates. What's with the team thing? I think I just skipped it because I assumed it had something to do with interacting online which I don't think is possible anymore.
I'm not sure what team think you're talking about. I'm asking about which pokemon are in your party.
-
You should stream your playthrough, somehow.
Or just give us updates. What's your team? Have you given them nicknames? What are their natures and characteristics?
Not sure how entertaining a stream would be but I can give updates. What's with the team thing? I think I just skipped it because I assumed it had something to do with interacting online which I don't think is possible anymore.
I'm not sure what team think you're talking about. I'm asking about which pokemon are in your party.
Oh ok, there was some team or group thing, it might've been in Black version though, I've been getting them mixed up it seems. Here's what I'm working with right now:
Flaaffy Lv. 15, Careful nature, likes to thrash about.
Totodile Lv. 16, Gentle nature, a little quick tempered.
Onix (Rocky!) Lv. 16, Hasty nature, loves to eat.
Bellsprout Lv. 15, Bashful nature, sturdy body.
Hoothoot Lv. 15, Impish nature, highly curious.
Togepi Lv. 17, Hardy nature, hates to lose.
You're going to have to fill me in on the nature and characteristic thing because I no clue what they're supposed to mean.
-
Aww, no nicknames?
Preface: this is mostly background technical stuff that you might want to ignore. If so, just think of characteristics and nature as just flavour.
Every pokemon has six stats: HP, Attack, Defense, Special Attack, Special Defense and Speed.
Moves fall under 3 categories: Physical, Special or Status. Status just means it does something other than damage. Physical vs. Special determines whether Atk/Def or SpA/SpDef are used to calculate damage.
Pokemon natures raise one stat by 10% and lower another stat by 10%. Every combination is present, except no natures deal with HP. There are also 4 neutral natures. So for example, your Onix is Hasty so his speed is higher but his defense is lower. Your Bellsprout and your Togepi have neutral natures. If you check the stats for your pokemon, you should notice for most that one stat is tinted red and the other tinted blue. Red is the increased stat, blue is the decreased stat.
The characteristic is determined by the IVs of your pokemon. IVs are Individual Values, which range from 0-31. These are all hidden values that are randomly generated when you encounter a new pokemon, sort of like their genetics. The higher the stat, the stronger it will be. Characteristic is determined by the exact value of its highest IV. So for example, your Totodile's highest IV is Attack, with a value of 2, 7, 12, 17, 22 or 27.
Keep in mind that positive nature and highest IV doesn't mean it'll be your pokemon's best stat. For example, your Onix's best stat is almost certainly its defense even though it has a negative defense nature and its characteristic tells us that its highest IV'd stat is HP.
Try not to worry about IVs or natures. They are only important if you are going to play competitively, and it's incredibly difficult to get perfect pokemon prior to Pokemon XY (where it is easier, though still tedious -- lots of breeding).
-
Thanks for all the info! I'm probably going to not pay much attention to that stuff though as I'm only interested in playing through the various games. I'm not even necessarily interested in catching every Pokemon. I'll have another updates for you guys after I play some more later.
-
This may not be a palatable choice if you hoard TMs like I did (they became unlimited use in gen V though).
That is great news, and I had no idea. I had exactly that problem when playing the cartridge games.
-
Ok here's what I've got right now:
Rocky (Onix) Lv. 25
Weepinbell Lv. 25
Croconaw Lv. 25
Noctowl Lv. 26
Flaaffy Lv. 27
Togetic Lv. 27
I need a fighting/ground/fire pokemon to get past the Olivine City gym leader (steel-type pokemon). I'm thinking a fighting pokemon would be best as they're also effective against normal type but ground would be good too as it's very effective against electric. Any thoughts? Also I'd like to chase after the legendary pokemon at some point but I need to make sure they don't run away from me.
-
Onix is part ground type, but he might not have any good moves or the offensive stats to back it up.
I don't know if you have a way to trap the roaming legendary yet. Later, you could hold them with an Arena Trap Dugtrio. Or a Wobuffet, which has Shadow Tag.
Fire type is really nice offensively.
-
Yeah the Onix isn't doing any good in that fight. I'm hanging around the Safari Zone right now and I just caught a Vulpix so maybe I'll get him up to speed and see how he does unless someone recommends using a fight or ground type instead.
-
Yeah the Onix isn't doing any good in that fight. I'm hanging around the Safari Zone right now and I just caught a Vulpix so maybe I'll get him up to speed and see how he does unless someone recommends using a fight or ground type instead.
Probably a Quagsire is your best bet. It shouldn't be too hard to find one, or to find a Wooper and evolve it at level 20. It's a Water/Ground type, so you can use Mud Shot or Mud Bomb on the Magnemites and then Surf on the Steelix.
-
Very confused by this. There have been a couple times I've gotten a pokemon's HP down as far as it could go and used multiple ultra balls and they just don't want to be caught. Am I missing something here?
-
Very confused by this. There have been a couple times I've gotten a pokemon's HP down as far as it could go and used multiple ultra balls and they just don't want to be caught. Am I missing something here?
Ideally you want the target to be asleep, or at least paralyzed. After that, it's all up to luck.
-
Very confused by this. There have been a couple times I've gotten a pokemon's HP down as far as it could go and used multiple ultra balls and they just don't want to be caught. Am I missing something here?
Different pokemon have different catch rates. Typically, the rarer, more powerful and further evolved pokemon have lower catch rates.
You can improve your chances by damaging the pokemon, inflicting status (especially Sleep), and using special pokeballs. Ultra Balls actually aren't that great -- they have a 2x catch rate modifier. One of the best general pokeballs you can use is the Dusk Ball, which gives 3.5x at night and inside caves. But gen II (and HGSS) have a bunch more specialty pokeballs (made from Apricorns) that are really good for catching pokemon with certain characteristics. I think you should have run into the "pokeball maker" character, Kurt (in Azalea Town, I think). As an example, you can get a Heavy Ball which adds a flat (non-multiplicative) modifier that is really good against heavy pokemon with low catch rates, or the Fast Ball which has a 4x modifier against pokemon with base speeds of 100+.
What are you trying to catch?
Also, the pokemon is more likely to stay in the ball if you hold down the B button really, really hard. ;)
-
I'm designing a Pokemon LCG because the CCG is stupid and I'm not allowed to play video games. (It's purely for personal use - I know there's no chance of getting a license)
So here's my problem. I really dislike the "Fairy" type, but I don't want to get rid of it if it's too popular. Same thing with keeping the stats; as a designer, I want to give every Pokemon a reasonable benefit over the others, but I don't know how much people care about staying true to the stats and actual move effects. What do you guys think?
-
Yeah the Onix isn't doing any good in that fight. I'm hanging around the Safari Zone right now and I just caught a Vulpix so maybe I'll get him up to speed and see how he does unless someone recommends using a fight or ground type instead.
Probably a Quagsire is your best bet. It shouldn't be too hard to find one, or to find a Wooper and evolve it at level 20. It's a Water/Ground type, so you can use Mud Shot or Mud Bomb on the Magnemites and then Surf on the Steelix.
You really have a lot of options. Quagsire and Vulpix both work; it basically depends on which you like better.
-
Yeah the Onix isn't doing any good in that fight. I'm hanging around the Safari Zone right now and I just caught a Vulpix so maybe I'll get him up to speed and see how he does unless someone recommends using a fight or ground type instead.
Probably a Quagsire is your best bet. It shouldn't be too hard to find one, or to find a Wooper and evolve it at level 20. It's a Water/Ground type, so you can use Mud Shot or Mud Bomb on the Magnemites and then Surf on the Steelix.
You really have a lot of options. Quagsire and Vulpix both work; it basically depends on which you like better.
Quagsire is stronger and is immune or resistant to all the gym leader's Pokémon's moves. Vulpix is weak to a Rock Throw and will take a beating from Thunderbolt. Long story short, your Vulpix will have to be WAY higher level than a Quagsire.
-
Ninetales does have pretty high special defense, so thunderbolt won't do much. Quagsire would be easier, but Ninetales is definitely doable.
-
Ninetales does have pretty high special defense, so thunderbolt won't do much. Quagsire would be easier, but Ninetales is definitely doable.
Ninetales means using a precious Fire Stone and then not learning whatever moves Vulpix would have learned on later levels.
-
Okay, you're right - forgot about getting the best moves. What do you think about my LCG (last page)
-
I'm designing a Pokemon LCG because the CCG is stupid and I'm not allowed to play video games. (It's purely for personal use - I know there's no chance of getting a license)
So here's my problem. I really dislike the "Fairy" type, but I don't want to get rid of it if it's too popular. Same thing with keeping the stats; as a designer, I want to give every Pokemon a reasonable benefit over the others, but I don't know how much people care about staying true to the stats and actual move effects. What do you guys think?
What's wrong with the Fairy type? Fairies are great.
But you can do whatever you want. It's just for your personal use, so what does it matter what anyone else thinks?
-
I'm designing a Pokemon LCG because the CCG is stupid and I'm not allowed to play video games. (It's purely for personal use - I know there's no chance of getting a license)
So here's my problem. I really dislike the "Fairy" type, but I don't want to get rid of it if it's too popular. Same thing with keeping the stats; as a designer, I want to give every Pokemon a reasonable benefit over the others, but I don't know how much people care about staying true to the stats and actual move effects. What do you guys think?
What's wrong with the Fairy type? Fairies are great.
But you can do whatever you want. It's just for your personal use, so what does it matter what anyone else thinks?
Best of luck with your LCG.
I personally like fairy types too, and that's not just because I was able to easy mode through Pokemon X with a Sylveon that knew Moonblast. It is a strong type for a Pokemon to have.
Seriously, Sylveon slaughters like 75% of the opponents you face in Pokemon X.
-
I'm designing a Pokemon LCG because the CCG is stupid and I'm not allowed to play video games. (It's purely for personal use - I know there's no chance of getting a license)
So here's my problem. I really dislike the "Fairy" type, but I don't want to get rid of it if it's too popular. Same thing with keeping the stats; as a designer, I want to give every Pokemon a reasonable benefit over the others, but I don't know how much people care about staying true to the stats and actual move effects. What do you guys think?
What's wrong with the Fairy type? Fairies are great.
But you can do whatever you want. It's just for your personal use, so what does it matter what anyone else thinks?
Best of luck with your LCG.
I personally like fairy types too, and that's not just because I was able to easy mode through Pokemon X with a Sylveon that knew Moonblast. It is a strong type for a Pokemon to have.
Seriously, Sylveon slaughters like 75% of the opponents you face in Pokemon X.
Most pokemon slaughter like 75% of the NPC(!) opponents you face in Pokemon X. ;)
From a game balance perspective, Fairy was excellent for nerfing Dragon and Fighting types, and buffing Poison and Steel types. Note that the buff to Steel is small compared to the nerf it received in losing Dark and Ghost resistances, and making Steel type attacks more useful was a good thing overall.
From a thematic perspective I was leery at first, but it's really grown on me. I think it has high potential as a type for pokemon based on real life myths that aren't dragons, as well as being a friendlier "mischief maker" typing vs. Dark typing (which is more of a sneaky/underhanded theme). Plus, it's hilarious that pokemon like Igglybuff are immune to moves like Draco Meteor.
-
I'm designing a Pokemon LCG because the CCG is stupid and I'm not allowed to play video games. (It's purely for personal use - I know there's no chance of getting a license)
So here's my problem. I really dislike the "Fairy" type, but I don't want to get rid of it if it's too popular. Same thing with keeping the stats; as a designer, I want to give every Pokemon a reasonable benefit over the others, but I don't know how much people care about staying true to the stats and actual move effects. What do you guys think?
What's wrong with the Fairy type? Fairies are great.
But you can do whatever you want. It's just for your personal use, so what does it matter what anyone else thinks?
Best of luck with your LCG.
I personally like fairy types too, and that's not just because I was able to easy mode through Pokemon X with a Sylveon that knew Moonblast. It is a strong type for a Pokemon to have.
Seriously, Sylveon slaughters like 75% of the opponents you face in Pokemon X.
Most pokemon slaughter like 75% of the NPC(!) opponents you face in Pokemon X. ;)
...
I suspected as much, but Team Flare sure did use a lot of Dark and Fighting Pokemon, and having a strong Fairy Pokemon makes those end-game dragons a cakewalk.
Edit: Oh yeah and my rival had a lot of of pokemon weak to fairy as well. Even her Chesnaught has the Fighting type that dooms it.
-
So I somehow managed to get the badge after getting Vulpix to level 30 and thanks to a lucky Thunderbolt miss. I haven't seen a Quagsire anywhere and the only ground Pokemon I've seen is a Diglet, and that was once. Anyway, here's how my team is looking right now:
Flaaffy Lv. 27
Rocky (Onix) Lv. 28
Croconaw Lv. 28
Togetic Lv. 28
Girafarig Lv. 28
Vulpix Lv. 30
So sometimes if you evolve a Pokemon you miss out on good moves? How do I know when I should and shouldn't let a Pokemon evolve?
-
The only way really is to check move lists online, or else experiment by raising pokemon up to level 100 without evolving them to see (though sometimes you may miss out on moves without evolution). But as a rule of thumb, most pokemon don't learn any more moves after they are made to evolve with an evolutionary stone. Many, however, will gain some moves that can only be accessed via the move relearner. For example, Togetic evolves to Togekiss with a Shiny Stone and Togekiss can remember the move Air Slash (which is spectacular if your Togekiss has Serene Grace as its ability).
-
So I have a ton of money, what should I spend it all on? And I have a couple nuggets. From what I remember all they're good for is selling and making money, is that right?
-
So I have a ton of money, what should I spend it all on? And I have a couple nuggets. From what I remember all they're good for is selling and making money, is that right?
I think so. There might be some games where you can trade them for stuff, but probably the game you're playing isn't one of them? I think you can safely sell them.
-
So I have a ton of money, what should I spend it all on? And I have a couple nuggets. From what I remember all they're good for is selling and making money, is that right?
I think so. There might be some games where you can trade them for stuff, but probably the game you're playing isn't one of them? I think you can safely sell them.
No, you should hoard them. Hoard everything. Carry everything with you forever, never selling, never using. This is how items work in Pokemon.
-
So I have a ton of money, what should I spend it all on? And I have a couple nuggets. From what I remember all they're good for is selling and making money, is that right?
I think so. There might be some games where you can trade them for stuff, but probably the game you're playing isn't one of them? I think you can safely sell them.
No, you should hoard them. Hoard everything. Carry everything with you forever, never selling, never using. This is how items work in Pokemon.
Don't even think of using the masterball on Mewtwo. Who knows if you are going to need it afterwards..?
And TMs? HAH. Your pokemons are going to learn those moves sooner or later anyway, and even if they don't, they'll learn something equivalent, and even if they don't, they don't really need it, and even if they do, you can capture another pokemon with that move, and even if you can't, I am sure you will eventually capture a pokemon that can get more use out of that move.
And don't get me started on evolutionary stones. Or rare candies.
EDIT: repeated quote fail.
-
You guys still haven't told me where to spend my money!
-
You guys still haven't told me where to spend my money!
Hoard that too.
-
You guys still haven't told me where to spend my money!
Hoard that too.
"Money for nothing and chicks for free."
I don't even want to buy Charizardine X from that guy. I could theoretically get a Charizard from Pokemon Y and transfer it over through Pokemon bank, but my sister started playing Pokemon Y (yay for taking an interest) and I think she'd want to part with the Charmander starter for awhile.
-
The mega stone in Lumiose gets cheaper as your reputation goes up. I think I got it for 10K or something.
-
The mega stone in Lumiose gets cheaper as your reputation goes up. I think I got it for 10K or something.
I noticed. I wonder how cheap it is now that I beat the elite 4 + champion.
-
The mega stone in Lumiose gets cheaper as your reputation goes up. I think I got it for 10K or something.
I noticed. I wonder how cheap it is now that I beat the elite 4 + champion.
I believe the reputation only goes up from your interaction within Lumiose, e.g. riding cabs, dining in restaurants, buying from shops. The easy way to raise it quickly is to go to the pokeball shop and buy a bunch of them one at a time.
-
I have a beef with that shop. I didn't know they sold Premier Balls. I bought them 1 for 10 regular balls... I trashed around 4000 regular balls before I knew that you could just buy Premier Balls.
-
UPDATE:
I beat the Elite Four with some luck but Lance's Dragonite beat me down mercilessly. My Onix is totally useless so I think it's time to replace him. I've got a Delibird that I think might be good. Also my Vulpix is getting destroyed, should I replace him as well? Evolve him? What do you guys think I should I have?
Lugia Lv. 48
Ampharos Lv. 44
Togetic Lv. 41
Gyarados Lv. 41
Vulpix Lv. 40
Rocky (Onix) Lv. 40
-
UPDATE:
I beat the Elite Four with some luck but Lance's Dragonite beat me down mercilessly. My Onix is totally useless so I think it's time to replace him. I've got a Delibird that I think might be good. Also my Vulpix is getting destroyed, should I replace him as well? Evolve him? What do you guys think I should I have?
Lugia Lv. 48
Ampharos Lv. 44
Togetic Lv. 41
Gyarados Lv. 41
Vulpix Lv. 40
Rocky (Onix) Lv. 40
You should get a Venomoth
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P10NnOd328w
-
The mega stone in Lumiose gets cheaper as your reputation goes up. I think I got it for 10K or something.
I noticed. I wonder how cheap it is now that I beat the elite 4 + champion.
I believe the reputation only goes up from your interaction within Lumiose, e.g. riding cabs, dining in restaurants, buying from shops. The easy way to raise it quickly is to go to the pokeball shop and buy a bunch of them one at a time.
I thought that was style points. Or is that what you mean?
-
The mega stone in Lumiose gets cheaper as your reputation goes up. I think I got it for 10K or something.
I noticed. I wonder how cheap it is now that I beat the elite 4 + champion.
I believe the reputation only goes up from your interaction within Lumiose, e.g. riding cabs, dining in restaurants, buying from shops. The easy way to raise it quickly is to go to the pokeball shop and buy a bunch of them one at a time.
I thought that was style points. Or is that what you mean?
Sure. I don't remember what people call it, but that sounds right too.
@Andrew, Delibird is pretty weak. Yes, evolve Vulpix. Also evolve Togetic if you can, and teach it Air Slash at the nice relearner's. Does it have Serene Grace?
Replace Onix with a Larvitar and evolve it at least once.
FWIW, I've always favoured Arcanine and Houndoom over Ninetales.
-
UPDATE:
I beat the Elite Four with some luck but Lance's Dragonite beat me down mercilessly. My Onix is totally useless so I think it's time to replace him. I've got a Delibird that I think might be good. Also my Vulpix is getting destroyed, should I replace him as well? Evolve him? What do you guys think I should I have?
Lugia Lv. 48
Ampharos Lv. 44
Togetic Lv. 41
Gyarados Lv. 41
Vulpix Lv. 40
Rocky (Onix) Lv. 40
Before evolving Vulpix into Ninetales, make sure it has Flamethrower. It learns Extrasensory (a Psychic attack) at level 44, so you may want to do that first, but it's not essential. After evolving it, assuming you have some Heart Scales, find the Move Reminder and maybe teach it Confuse Ray and/or Nasty Plot. EDIT: Apparently the Move Reminder is in Blackthorn City in a house west of the PokeMart.
Onix can evolve into Steelix, but it requires a Metal Coat and a trade. Delibird is just plain awful. If you want an Ice-type to help you take out the dragons, a Lapras is probably your best bet. You can find one swimming in Unioin Cave (like, you should be able to see it on the map), but I think only on Friday so you better get a move on.
@eHalcyon: I'm pretty sure HeartGold and SoulSilver don't give you the stuff you need to evolve into any of the 4th-gen evolutions until after the Elite Hour. So, no Togekiss.
-
Mm, you may be right. I know Togekiss is only in the post game of Diamond/Pearl but wasn't sure for HGSS.
-
@Andrew, Delibird is pretty weak. Yes, evolve Vulpix. Also evolve Togetic if you can, and teach it Air Slash at the nice relearner's. Does it have Serene Grace?
Replace Onix with a Larvitar and evolve it at least once.
FWIW, I've always favoured Arcanine and Houndoom over Ninetales.
Haven't seen Larvitar, Arcanine, or Houndoom anywhere.
Before evolving Vulpix into Ninetales, make sure it has Flamethrower. It learns Extrasensory (a Psychic attack) at level 44, so you may want to do that first, but it's not essential. After evolving it, assuming you have some Heart Scales, find the Move Reminder and maybe teach it Confuse Ray and/or Nasty Plot. EDIT: Apparently the Move Reminder is in Blackthorn City in a house west of the PokeMart.
Onix can evolve into Steelix, but it requires a Metal Coat and a trade. Delibird is just plain awful. If you want an Ice-type to help you take out the dragons, a Lapras is probably your best bet. You can find one swimming in Unioin Cave (like, you should be able to see it on the map), but I think only on Friday so you better get a move on.
Vulpix has Flamethrower AND Fire Blast. Not sure about the Heart Scales. I'll look for the Lapras.
EDIT: Apparently it's Saturday? I guess I missed the Lapras. Now what the hell do I do!?
-
Is there any crossover interest in Smash Bros 3DS? (I'd start a new thread but this one already has 3DS people in it)
I play pretty casually. Haven't seen many people online.
-
Is there any crossover interest in Smash Bros 3DS? (I'd start a new thread but this one already has 3DS people in it)
I play pretty casually. Haven't seen many people online.
Let it be known that I play Smash bros 3DS. My sister shares the 3DS with me though, so I'm not always the one who is online.
-
Now the Houndoom is giving me a lot of trouble. I just caught a Quagsire, should I get him up to speed?
-
Hmm... Larvitar are in Mt. Silver and in the Safari Zone, but they are rare in the latter and maybe you don't have access to the former yet.
I suppose you can't get Growlithe because they are the version exclusive corresponding to Vulpix.
You can find Houndour on Route 7 and in the Safari Zone.... oh, weird. I thought you could get Houndour in Johto, but you have to wait. Huh.
Since you have a Gyarados, you don't really need a Quagsire. If you are finding Gyarados' damage inadequate, you might be using the wrong moveset. Note that Gyarados has a great attack stat (base 125) but poor Sp. Atk (base 60), which means that Waterfall will usually do a lot more damage than Surf. Gyarados also has access to Ice Fang, which could help against Lance's dragons.
Have you been catching pokemon as you go? What do you have in your PC? I really don't remember what options you have for your team.
But you should just choose whatever pokemon you like best and just train them up a little. :)
-
Is there any crossover interest in Smash Bros 3DS? (I'd start a new thread but this one already has 3DS people in it)
I play pretty casually. Haven't seen many people online.
I play.
-
Hmm... Larvitar are in Mt. Silver and in the Safari Zone, but they are rare in the latter and maybe you don't have access to the former yet.
I suppose you can't get Growlithe because they are the version exclusive corresponding to Vulpix.
You can find Houndour on Route 7 and in the Safari Zone.... oh, weird. I thought you could get Houndour in Johto, but you have to wait. Huh.
Since you have a Gyarados, you don't really need a Quagsire. If you are finding Gyarados' damage inadequate, you might be using the wrong moveset. Note that Gyarados has a great attack stat (base 125) but poor Sp. Atk (base 60), which means that Waterfall will usually do a lot more damage than Surf. Gyarados also has access to Ice Fang, which could help against Lance's dragons.
Have you been catching pokemon as you go? What do you have in your PC? I really don't remember what options you have for your team.
But you should just choose whatever pokemon you like best and just train them up a little. :)
I think I still don't understand the difference between Attack and Sp. Attack (and likewise Defence and Sp. Defence). That might be helpful.
Gyarados knows surf, blizzard, hydro pump, and I think something else. Dragon Pulse takes down all my Pokemon in one shot though.
-
Attack makes physical attacks do more damage.
Special Attack makes special attacks do more damage.
Defense makes physical attacks against you do less damage.
Special Defense makes special attacks against you do less damage.
Speed determines who goes first in a battle. Highest speed first. In case of a tie, I'm not sure who goes first, but you alternate every turn after that. It's pretty rare when you just play through the game.
If you check the info on a move and it has (http://www.serebii.net/attackdex-bw/type/physical.png) it's a physical move and is therefore affected by your Attack and the oppponent's Defense. If it has (http://www.serebii.net/attackdex-bw/type/special.png) it's a special move. Affected by Special Attack and your opponent's Special Defense. If the move has a (http://www.serebii.net/attackdex-bw/type/other.png) it's a non damaging move and doesn't care about either special/physical stats. Most of the time. ;)
-
Hmm... Larvitar are in Mt. Silver and in the Safari Zone, but they are rare in the latter and maybe you don't have access to the former yet.
I suppose you can't get Growlithe because they are the version exclusive corresponding to Vulpix.
You can find Houndour on Route 7 and in the Safari Zone.... oh, weird. I thought you could get Houndour in Johto, but you have to wait. Huh.
Since you have a Gyarados, you don't really need a Quagsire. If you are finding Gyarados' damage inadequate, you might be using the wrong moveset. Note that Gyarados has a great attack stat (base 125) but poor Sp. Atk (base 60), which means that Waterfall will usually do a lot more damage than Surf. Gyarados also has access to Ice Fang, which could help against Lance's dragons.
Have you been catching pokemon as you go? What do you have in your PC? I really don't remember what options you have for your team.
But you should just choose whatever pokemon you like best and just train them up a little. :)
I think I still don't understand the difference between Attack and Sp. Attack (and likewise Defence and Sp. Defence). That might be helpful.
Gyarados knows surf, blizzard, hydro pump, and I think something else. Dragon Pulse takes down all my Pokemon in one shot though.
It used to be very easy (!). Fire, Water, Grass, Electric, Psychic, Dark, Ice and Dragon were special, and Flying, Steel, Fighting, Rock, Ground, Dragon, Ghost, Normal and Poison were physical. Now it varies move by move and you just have to learn them. Physical attacks depend on your Attack and your opponents Defense; Special attacks on your Special Attack and your opponents Special Defense.
All of your Gyarados' attacks are special, which means they're running off the weaker stat. eHalcyon's suggestions of Waterfall and Ice Fang are good (although I don't know how you get either of these in game).
When physical/special went off type rather than specific move you had some interesting situations. One is that Gyarados had no good moves of its own types. Dragonite and Salamence had the same problem. Gengar was particularly fun: it has huge Special Attack but it's Ghost/Poison typing was purely physical. In Generation 3 it was quite popular to run physical Gengars with Shadow Ball/Focus Punch/Substitute/Thunderbolt to wreck the walls Skarmory and Blissey.
PPE: Lekkit has explained the stats in more detail.
-
I don't know if it has been explained already (edit: ninja'd), but let me try:
There are three categories of moves: physical, special, and status. If the attack isn't damaging, it falls in the later category (think Agility, Sleep Powder, Sand Attack, Substitute, etc.).
If the attack is damaging, then it can be either physical or special. Most attacks that involve hitting the other pokemon are physical, and most attacks that involve some sort of energy (fire, electricity, sometimes water, etc.) are special. I'm not very acquainted with the newer generations, but there should be a small symbol next to the move in the status screen of your pokemon that indicates what category of move they are.
If the move is physical, the damage inflicted depends on the physical attack of the attacker, and the physical defense of the defending pokemon. Likewise, if the move is special, the damage inflicted depends on the special attack of the attacker, and the special defense of the defender. So you want to teach your pokemon moves that use their higher stat, unless both are close to each other, in which case you might want to teach them both to exploit the lower defense stat of the pokemon you are facing.
As an example, Onyx has an extremely high physical defense, which means he can somewhat take a beating from ground pokemon and still stand, despite being weak to that type. However, he has a low special defense, so he won't last very long against Psychic attacks, despite not being weak against it (e.g. my default starting strategy in pokemon yellow was to catch a Caterpie and evolve it into a Butterfree so that he would learn confusion; poor move choices by the AI usually meant that it would defeat Brock's Onyx before the second rock throw).
Similarly, you could teach thunderbolt to, say, a Primeape, but he will still (probably) do more damage against a water type pokemon using regular fighting moves, since his special attack is so much lower than his physical attack. And so on.
It's not the most important thing, just check if your pokemon have very high physical / special attack, and teach them moves of that category.
PPED 2
-
Thanks guys, I have the HM Waterfall but I'm not sure I want to teach Gyardos two HMs (or maybe I can delete Surf at that hut). And I might've used Ice Fang already on somebody though maybe I can buy it in Goldenrod. As far as defence goes, I need to defend against Dragon Pulse somehow. I might keep the Quagsire around, I think he's better than Onix and it might helpful to have a ground Pokemon.
-
Yes, the move deleter can remove HMs. Gyarados learns Ice Fang at lv 32. If it's too late, you should be able to get it back at the Move Reminder.
Before gen VI, only Steel type resists Dragon type. Do you have access to any? Magneton, maybe? Or just level up.
-
Yes I have a Magneton, I just don't like spending hours training one Pokemon for one specific fight but if that's what I habe to do then so be it. I'm still trying to decidee whether evolving Vulpix is worth it or if I should just replace it with Quagsire or something else (maybe Magneton?)
-
If you train anything enough, it'll be fine.
Evolve the Vulpix!
-
Andrew's Soul Silver Update:
Somehow I managed to get past the Elite Four and the Kanto region was super easy. I caught Articuno somehow and I'd like to try and catch all the legendaries at some point though I need scary face or whatever to make sure the dogs don't run right? I also tried facing the Elite Four again and got my ass handed to me by his Lv. 61 Gardevoir so I need to counter that somehow. Here's my team right now:
Articuno Lv. 52 Likes to fight.
Lugia Lv. 55 Likes to relax.
Rhydon Lv. 56 Good endurance.
Ninetales Lv. 57 Impetuous and silly.
Gyarados Lv. 58 Hates to lose.
Ampharos Lv 61 Likes to thrash about.
EDIT: Snorlax knows Block and I just (re)taught him Yawn so that should be enough to catch some legendaries.
-
Having way too much trouble catching Moltres. I get him to 1 or 2 HP, put him to sleep, and use a ton of Dusk Balls and no luck. I've had to restart the game a number of times.
Is there a benefit of having a pure Ice type Pokemon as opposed to Ice/Flying for example? And are the legendary birds more powerful than normal Pokemon? I'm thinking about replacing Articuno with Quagsire to have a ground type.
-
Legendary pokemons have better stats than non-legendary pokemons. I don't remember the details, but I think there are two tiers of legendaries, with the lower tier having the same stat sum than starter pokemon and "pseudo-legendaries" (Dragonite, Tiranitar, etc.), and the higher tier having better stats than anything else. So legendaries have an advantage over non-legendaries, but stat sum is not the only important thing. The exact stat spread is important, and even more important is the type(s) of the pokemon, and the moves it can learn.
Flying is not a very useful type, aside from the ability to learn flight. Whether Quagsire or Articuno is better depends on what you think your team is lacking. But Ice is a good offensive type, and Rhydon is already ground type.
I am biased in favour of Articuno though, he was inmensely useful back in Generation I because of the lack of Ice types back then.
-
You can check websites like Bulbapedia (http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Articuno_%28Pok%C3%A9mon%29) or serebii (http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-dp/144.shtml) to get a lot of info. Articuno's BST (base stat total) is 580, which is on the higher end compared to most non-legendary pokemon. But not all! Dragonite and Tyranitar, for example, have 600 BST. Not to mention, BST is not everything. Wobbuffet has a BST of 405 but it was considered Uber in the gen IV competitive scene, at least on Smogon (the biggest online battling community).
"Power" is a tricky thing to measure; it depends on what role you want to fill. Articuno isn't that great. It's not very fast and its offense is only a bit above average. Its stats are more defensively oriented, but Ice/Flying is not a good defensive typing.
A pure Ice type will have slightly different resistances and weaknesses compared to Ice/Flying. Pure Ice resists Ice but is weak to Fighting. Ice/Flying resists Bug and Grass and is immune to Ground, but is weak to Electric and 4x weak to Rock (as opposed to a regular 2x weakness for pure Ice). Ice/Flying also gets flying STAB (same type attack bonus -- using a move of the pokemon's type gives it a 1.5x multiplier).
Your Rhydon is part ground type, just so you know. :P
All this said, you shouldn't worry too much about it for in-game battling. Just use what you like! Sometimes you can get some really surprising results. For example, Pachirisu was widely considered to be a relatively weak Pikachu clone, but it played a critical role on the team of the 2014 world championships winner.
-
Interesting stuff, thanks! And yeah I forgot about the Rhydon being part ground. I finally caught Moltres, I think the key is to continuously throw balls at him for 20 minutes and one will eventually stick. I guess I just need to train my ass off for the Elite Four. I'll check back in a couple days or so!
-
Wow. The Battle Frontier is the fucking worst.
-
So after spending hours upon hours upon hours at the worst place ever that I hate so much because it's really terrible and awful in every way, AKA the battle fronteir (yeah I'm not even capitalizing it or spelling it correctly because I fucking hate it so much), I got a Razor Claw and evolved my Sneasel into a Weavile andddd.... it still sucks. I really surprised myself and beat the Elite Four and now there's only one thing left to do; wipe that smug look off Red's face. That dude thinks he's hot shit, he wont even talk to me for Christ's sake! Just say "hi"! Something! Anyway here's my team:
Rhydon Lv. 61
Ninetales Lv. 61
Lugia Lv. 61
Weavile Lv. 62 Likes to relax
Gyarados Lv. 62
Ampharos Lv. 63
Gyarados and Ampharos have pretty much carried me through the whole game so I'll probably be relying on them the most in this battle.
-
If you're using Weavile, make sure that you're not using special attacks. Its attack stat is much higher. So like, if you have Dark Pulse, you should be using Night Slash instead. The strongest physical Ice-type move that Weavile learns is Ice Punch, which needs to be taught via move tutor.
-
Yeah I tried to avoid special attacks but the physical attacks he has are pretty weak. I'll try to get Night Slash but to get Ice Punch I need 32 BP and there's no way I'm ever setting foot in the battle frontier again. Fuck that.
-
Yeah I tried to avoid special attacks but the physical attacks he has are pretty weak. I'll try to get Night Slash but to get Ice Punch I need 32 BP and there's no way I'm ever setting foot in the battle frontier again. Fuck that.
Is there a facility there where you battle using rented Pokémon? I've usually found that entertaining.
-
I love following this thread because it amazes me how much there is in the pokemon games that I never paid attention too. I always just played the game getting 6 pokemon and keeping the coolest attack moves. Never EV training or even knowing things like that existed. If I had more patience I would be really interested in doing competitive pokemon battles but I just don't have the patience to level up all those pokemon with the perfect stats.
-
So after spending hours upon hours upon hours at the worst place ever that I hate so much because it's really terrible and awful in every way, AKA the battle fronteir (yeah I'm not even capitalizing it or spelling it correctly because I fucking hate it so much), I got a Razor Claw and evolved my Sneasel into a Weavile andddd.... it still sucks. I really surprised myself and beat the Elite Four and now there's only one thing left to do; wipe that smug look off Red's face. That dude thinks he's hot shit, he wont even talk to me for Christ's sake! Just say "hi"! Something! Anyway here's my team:
Rhydon Lv. 61
Ninetales Lv. 61
Lugia Lv. 61
Weavile Lv. 62 Likes to relax
Gyarados Lv. 62
Ampharos Lv. 63
Gyarados and Ampharos have pretty much carried me through the whole game so I'll probably be relying on them the most in this battle.
Go get yourself a Tyranitar! Tyranitar is a beast.
Hey, you abandoned your starter pokemon. :(
I find it interesting how almost every player going through Johto ends up using Ampharos. OK, it's not that surprising because Mareep is one of the more interesting pokemon you can get early, but still.
I have thousands of extra BP in Pokemon XY. I look forward to the Frontier in ORAS.
-
Yeah I tried to avoid special attacks but the physical attacks he has are pretty weak. I'll try to get Night Slash but to get Ice Punch I need 32 BP and there's no way I'm ever setting foot in the battle frontier again. Fuck that.
Weavile learns Night Slash at L35, so you're going to have to relearn it. Its options for physical Ice-type moves are limited to Ice Punch and Ice Shard, sadly, and Ice Shard requires breeding.
Swords Dance is a passable option on in-game sets to increase Weavile's attack stat. Brick Break and Low Kick are pretty much its only good coverage options; the latter is a move tutor move, so that's probably unpalatable to you.
-
It's pretty great coverage though. Fighting + Dark hits everything in gen IV neutral or super effective except for Heracross and Croagunk/Toxicroak.
-
Yeah I tried to avoid special attacks but the physical attacks he has are pretty weak. I'll try to get Night Slash but to get Ice Punch I need 32 BP and there's no way I'm ever setting foot in the battle frontier again. Fuck that.
Weavile learns Night Slash at L35, so you're going to have to relearn it. Its options for physical Ice-type moves are limited to Ice Punch and Ice Shard, sadly, and Ice Shard requires breeding.
Swords Dance is a passable option on in-game sets to increase Weavile's attack stat. Brick Break and Low Kick are pretty much its only good coverage options; the latter is a move tutor move, so that's probably unpalatable to you.
Brick Break also requires BP so that's a no for me. I got Night Slash for Weavile and he also knows Avalance, Strength, and Poison Jab. That's about as good as he's gonna get I think.
-
I love following this thread because it amazes me how much there is in the pokemon games that I never paid attention too. I always just played the game getting 6 pokemon and keeping the coolest attack moves. Never EV training or even knowing things like that existed. If I had more patience I would be really interested in doing competitive pokemon battles but I just don't have the patience to level up all those pokemon with the perfect stats.
There are online simulators if you like the idea of competitive battling but not tedious grinding. Try http://play.pokemonshowdown.com/.
-
So the Pokemon World Championship was in DC this year. If I was into Pokemon at the time I might've gone... ok probably not.
-
Hey! I did it! I beat Red and now I can go on doing other things with my life. Thanks for everyone's help, I'll get to the other games I have someday but I need a big long break from Pokemon for a while.
-
Hey! I did it! I beat Red and now I can go on doing other things with my life. Thanks for everyone's help, I'll get to the other games I have someday but I need a big long break from Pokemon for a while.
Finally, freedom! Fly away and don't look back! You're free! FREEEEEEE!!!
-
Hey! I did it! I beat Red and now I can go on doing other things with my life. Thanks for everyone's help, I'll get to the other games I have someday but I need a big long break from Pokemon for a while.
Finally, freedom! Fly away and don't look back! You're free! FREEEEEEE!!!
I don't even want to post how many hours I put into that game.
-
Now that the saga of AndrewisFTTW has ended, it's time for me to make some educated guesses about what other Mega Evolutions will be in Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire.
Predictions
So far there have been no new Electric-type megas. I'm pulling for Mega Luxray. Luxray has appeal, but it's just so lackluster in battle. Fingers crossed for Mega Luxray being Electric/Dark, which was the type combo I was hoping it was back in 4th gen when it was revealed.
It's interesting to me how we've seen quite a few mega evolutions for Pokémon that have have had belated alternate evolutions. For example, Slowpoke evolves into Slowbro, but then in 2nd gen it gained the alternate evolution to Slowking. Now we have Mega Slowbro. Snorunt evolved into Glalie, but later gained the alternate evolution to Froslass. Now we have Mega Glalie. Kirlia evolved into Gardevoir, then later gained an alternate evolution into Gallade. Well, both Gardevoir and Gallade now have mega evolutions, but you get the idea. Anyway, I'm hoping for Mega Poliwrath and Mega Vileplume.
Other than starters (Venusaur and Sceptile), the only Grass-type mega evolution is Abomasnow. In addition to Mega Vileplume, I'd really like to have Mega Parasect and Mega Sunflora. Those need more love.
-
I'm hoping for a Mega Spinda.
-
As long as we're talking about Pokemon that need some love, how about Mega Octillery. Remember, Octillery? Back in Pokemon Stadium 2, that Pokemon just screamed "forgettable". At least, it did for me.
Like LFN, I'd like to see megas for Vileplume and Parasect.
-
Octillery is a pretty awesome concept, since it has decent attacking stats on both sides of the spectrum and an incredibly diverse movepool. I feel like they sort of re-did the concept in the form of Clawitzer, though. It doesn't attack from both sides, but it's slow and it has an ability that complements its varied movepool and special attack stat.
-
I agree that Mega Octillery would be cool. At least it has Moody.
-
Isn't Moody still banned on Smogon...
-
Isn't Moody still banned on Smogon...
Eh, who cares. Smogon's ruleset is so far removed from the official one.
To be fair, it was probably a reasonable ban in 5th gen, when you could alternate Protect and Substitute until your stats were sky high. Substitute got such a massive nerf in 6th gen, though.
-
So, two days before Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire release. The new feature that allows you to search for rare versions of Pokémon in the wild looks very cool, and I'm hoping it completely replaces the annoying Friend Safari as the way to get Hidden Abilities and maxed-out IVs. If that's the case, I'll probably train at least one real competitive Doubles team this gen. I already trained 2 Pokémon in X/Y, so only 4 more to go.
So, here is my question for you: how many mega evolutions should I put on my team? "But LastFootnote," you may be saying, "you can only have one mega evolution per team!" Not quite. You can only activate one mega evolution per battle, but there's nothing stopping you from fielding a team of six Pokémon all holding their respective mega stones. That would be pretty dumb, but I'm trying to illustrate the point. More importantly, in the official Doubles rule set, you only bring four Pokémon into each match. My intuition tells me that having two Mega Pokémon to choose from might offer me more flexibility than having just one. With one, I almost have to include it in every match, but with two I have the choice. Probably I am never fielding both in the same battle, but even with that restriction it sounds tempting.
I'm aiming to create a sort of Poison/Ghost themed team, and right now it has Scolipede and Mega Banette. I'm thinking of using a Mega Sableye (or a Mega Gengar if Mega Sableye ends up sucking). Opinions?
-
So, two days before Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire release. The new feature that allows you to search for rare versions of Pokémon in the wild looks very cool, and I'm hoping it completely replaces the annoying Friend Safari as the way to get Hidden Abilities and maxed-out IVs. If that's the case, I'll probably train at least one real competitive Doubles team this gen. I already trained 2 Pokémon in X/Y, so only 4 more to go.
So, here is my question for you: how many mega evolutions should I put on my team? "But LastFootnote," you may be saying, "you can only have one mega evolution per team!" Not quite. You can only activate one mega evolution per battle, but there's nothing stopping you from fielding a team of six Pokémon all holding their respective mega stones. That would be pretty dumb, but I'm trying to illustrate the point. More importantly, in the official Doubles rule set, you only bring four Pokémon into each match. My intuition tells me that having two Mega Pokémon to choose from might offer me more flexibility than having just one. With one, I almost have to include it in every match, but with two I have the choice. Probably I am never fielding both in the same battle, but even with that restriction it sounds tempting.
I'm aiming to create a sort of Poison/Ghost themed team, and right now it has Scolipede and Mega Banette. I'm thinking of using a Mega Sableye (or a Mega Gengar if Mega Sableye ends up sucking). Opinions?
What new feature is that? Sneaking up on pokemon? I thought that was just a more complicated version of the shaking grass in XY.
No thoughts on competitive stuffs. I know a fair amount, but I don't keep up with the meta or have any real experience with it. It remains to be seen how the game will shake out with ORAS.
-
What new feature is that? Sneaking up on pokemon? I thought that was just a more complicated version of the shaking grass in XY.
Apparently it's way better than that. From what I understand, your Pokédex will let you seek out a specific type of Pokémon and the more of them you see/catch, the better the ones you sneak up on will be, sometimes having better stats, egg moves, and Hidden Abilities. The Dex will apparently tell you what each individual Pokémon that you could sneak up on will have, so you can decide whether it's worth engaging and catching it.
EDIT: Here's some info: http://www.siliconera.com/2014/11/18/pokemon-omega-ruby-alpha-sapphire-one-coolest-new-features-yet/
-
OK, that is pretty snazzy.
-
I picked up Omega Ruby, though I haven't started playing it yet. I plan to start with Treecko. I just like Sceptile's design a lot, aesthetically. I also intend to use the shiny event Beldum in my main party, since I haven't actually raised a Metagross in any of my play-throughs and the Metagross line has a fantastic shiny colour scheme.
Other than that, I'll see what I come across. I'm interested in getting an Altaria or Flygon, maybe both... but then I'll have many dragons. I may try to keep more than 6 in active rotation as I play through the story.
Any one else have plans? Ruby or Sapphire for you all?
-
I have one week of waiting left. And guess what's out on the same day!
-
Any one else have plans? Ruby or Sapphire for you all?
I ordered Ruby, although I'm regretting it a bit since I think I want to train a (Mega) Sableye. I'll probably go either Treecho or Mudkip. Maybe I should do the Fire-type starter for once, but they usually just don't appeal to me as much.
-
I have one week of waiting left. And guess what's out on the same day!
I don't know. Trying to find it online but I think most sources are American. Umm, Smash Bros for Wii?
Will you get ORAS, and if so, which one?
-
Any one else have plans? Ruby or Sapphire for you all?
I ordered Ruby, although I'm regretting it a bit since I think I want to train a (Mega) Sableye. I'll probably go either Treecho or Mudkip. Maybe I should do the Fire-type starter for once, but they usually just don't appeal to me as much.
You should be able to get Sableye easy enough over GTS, and apparently the mega stones aren't version exclusive? I'm not sure though.
My favourite starters for the first three gens (purely from design) have been Bulbasaur, Cyndaquil, Treecko. Fourth gen was an anomaly; I really like all of them. When I played through Pearl I chose Piplup, but the world turtle concept is still one of my favourites ever and the Wukong-inspired Chimchar line really appeals to me as well. Gen V was more of a disappointment, though I like the Oshawott line well enough. And I'm still not that certain about the sixth gen starters. They're all alright. I like Delphox's concept a fair bit, and Greninja does have a lot going for it, but that's mostly because I like Protean and Mat Block a lot. :P
Gameplay wise, Sceptile does bother me a little. His physical move pool is so good but his special stat is so much better. I guess there's always Swords Dance, or the option to go mixed.
Edit: speling
-
You should be able to get Sableye easy enough over GTS, and apparently the mega stones aren't version exclusive? I'm not sure though.
Sure, but I think it'll be much easier to get a Prankster, max-stats Sableye if I can use the DexNav to catch in it myself. And I figure Prankster will be nice to have so that Sableye can still go first on the turn it mega evolves. Maybe to use Confuse Ray or its new move Quash. Hmm… tentative moveset: Payback, Metal Burst, Pain Split, Quash. Or maybe Recover would be better than Pain Split? Hard to say no to Pain Split on something with 50 base HP and >100 base defenses. I guess I'll try to breed Sableye with Metal Burst, Feint, Sucker Punch, and Flatter, just to keep my options open.
After a very small amount of consideration, obviously I'll choose Sceptile over Swampert. Mega Sceptile is Grass/Dragon with Lightning Rod. It doesn't get much cooler than that.
-
What's the point of using Quash outside of doubles...
The number 1 reason to use Sableye is Prankster + Will-o-Wisp. With a turn 1 Prankster, you can still fire off a burn.
-
You should be able to get Sableye easy enough over GTS, and apparently the mega stones aren't version exclusive? I'm not sure though.
Sure, but I think it'll be much easier to get a Prankster, max-stats Sableye if I can use the DexNav to catch in it myself. And I figure Prankster will be nice to have so that Sableye can still go first on the turn it mega evolves. Maybe to use Confuse Ray or its new move Quash. Hmm… tentative moveset: Payback, Metal Burst, Pain Split, Quash. Or maybe Recover would be better than Pain Split? Hard to say no to Pain Split on something with 50 base HP and >100 base defenses. I guess I'll try to breed Sableye with Metal Burst, Feint, Sucker Punch, and Flatter, just to keep my options open.
After a very small amount of consideration, obviously I'll choose Sceptile over Swampert. Mega Sceptile is Grass/Dragon with Lightning Rod. It doesn't get much cooler than that.
Ahh, good point about the DexNav stuff.
-
What's the point of using Quash outside of doubles...
There isn't one. I pretty much only play Doubles. If I do train a Sableye, it will be for a Doubles team.
The number 1 reason to use Sableye is Prankster + Will-o-Wisp. With a turn 1 Prankster, you can still fire off a burn.
Ah, good point. My Mega Banette (which would be on the same team) has Prankster and Will-O-Wisp already, but it still might be the best bet for the Mega Sableye. Thanks!
-
So it turns out the event Beldum has Steven as its OT, so you can't nickname it. This is very disappointing to me. If I keep it with me through to the end, it'll definitely be as part of a rotating team of more than 6.
In any case, I did soft reset on both my Treecko and Beldum until they were probably above average (it's hard to tell at lv 5). I ended up with a female Naive Treecko and a Lonely Beldum... and both are "somewhat vain". Huh. :P
-
So it turns out the event Beldum has Steven as its OT, so you can't nickname it. This is very disappointing to me. If I keep it with me through to the end, it'll definitely be as part of a rotating team of more than 6.
They really should update the rule to allow you to nickname pokemon that haven't been nicknamed yet.
-
The DexNav is evil. EVIL. I'm walking down the route and it beeps at me, and now I am compelled to turn around to see what's hiding in that patch of grass. I feel like I have to check even if I have no intention of catching it. I passed on a Tailow that knew Brave Bird because I already had a Tailow and didn't want to waste pokeballs that I might need for other special DexNav pokemon. I'm about 5 hours in and I only just made it to Rustboro.
In other news, my Beldum is level 11 and won't listen to me anymore. But I caught a Slakoth at level 15, which is higher than anything else in my party. Unfortunately, it was a special one with the egg move Snore, which is much less useful than the move it replaced -- Yawn. Still, I will sub him in for Beldum at least until I get the badge.
The rest of my team is a Zigzagoon, who is with me mostly because of Pickup (and partially because of adorableness); Surskit with the egg move Fell Stinger (which replaced Bubble, sadly) which I am using for novelty; and a Cascoon and a Silcoon which I am only going to carry until they evolve.
Also, for future reference, this is apparently a secret base filled with lv 100 Blissey that only know Healing Wish. For level grinding!
(https://33.media.tumblr.com/569a97268f45434cc64b96cb776c9988/tumblr_nfgxbxyb0G1rnyyjqo1_400.jpg)
-
The DexNav is evil. EVIL. I'm walking down the route and it beeps at me, and now I am compelled to turn around to see what's hiding in that patch of grass. I feel like I have to check even if I have no intention of catching it.
I know what you mean. Luckily, the DexNav has a little red exclamation point in the center of the magnifying glass if the Pokémon is really rare (e.g. it has 3 max IVs and a Hidden Ability, etc.) You could limit yourself to only investigating those.
Also, for future reference, this is apparently a secret base filled with lv 100 Blissey that only know Healing Wish. For level grinding!
(https://33.media.tumblr.com/569a97268f45434cc64b96cb776c9988/tumblr_nfgxbxyb0G1rnyyjqo1_400.jpg)
Nice, thanks!
-
I'm about to challenge the 4th gym. Team right now is Sceptile, Manectric, Graveler, Masquerain, Gardevoir, and Linoone. Linoone is quickly becoming the HM slave, although I guess I'll want something that can learn Fly as well once I get HM02.
I'm really enjoying the game so far. Looking at serebii.net, I'm a bit disappointed that even with all the postgame stuff, there will still be Pokémon that I can't get the Hidden Ability for without doing some Friend Safari bullshit. But maybe those won't be the ones I want to train anyhow. At least I can finally get my Rain Dish Tentacruel in Omega Ruby.
-
Will it have the red exclamation for shinies as well? I noticed the exclamation mark thing when I approached the Brave Bird Taillow, but you still have to be close to the patches before it gives you any information, right?
Do you have Linoone for pickup, like I will? I read somewhere that you'll be able to summon Lati@s to fly you where you want to go, so that's one HM you could leave off the team. But I guess it depends on when you gain the power to make Lati@s your chauffeur.
-
Will it have the red exclamation for shinies as well?
I noticed the exclamation mark thing when I approached the Brave Bird Taillow, but you still have to be close to the patches before it gives you any information, right?
You have to get close before it tells you specifics, but if there are enough things the game thinks is interesting about the Pokémon, there will be a red exclamation mark in the center of the reddish magnifying glass overlay right when the Pokémon appears.
I have no idea if it has them for shinies. I would hope so.
Do you have Linoone for pickup, like I will?
No, that's what a smart person would have done. For some reason I'm raising a Gluttony Linoone, like an idiot. At least won't accidentally have items appear on it that would prevent it from stealing with Covet.
-
Oh, I just want to say that I thought the Float Stone joke was hilarious. Did anybody else notice it?
I think it was in the "apartment building" for Devon Corp employees. There's an Ace Trainer that gives you a Float Stone (halves the weight of the pokemon that holds it). If you visit him afterwards, there is a Hiker instead and he says that he suddenly gained a lot of weight for some reason.
-
Started playing Alpha Sapphire. Chose Treecko as my starter since luliin wanted Mudkip and we allready got Torchic in X&Y. Will probably switch him out for something more fun later. I tend to use monsters that I think look interesting when playing through the game. Which usually means "bad" ones. I plan to evolve my Poochyena and most likely my Surskit as well. I was hoping to be able to get my hands on a Weedle, but it turns out it might not be that easy...
-
Getting closer. Took a small break from the main story as I got the National Dex. Stopped by the Safari Zone to get a Kakuna. EV-training my little Weedle to become a mean Mega Beedrill now. After that, I guess it's time for the Elite Four.
Also, getting Kyogre turned out to be a pretty unfun experience. I didn't want a bad nature in case I MIGHT get the idea to play some Ubers again. But that cutscene before you got to fight him, coupled with Aqua Ring, uncatchiness of legendaries, me originally wanting him in a Premier Ball, and the cutscene after you catch him before you can check his nature made it tedious. In the end, I gave up on the Premier Ball and just went with my Master Ball. I usually save it for no reason, but I didn't really have the patience for it this time.
-
For the cover legendaries, you can knock them out and then catch them after the story is over. At that time, there is no cutscene so it's much easier.
Also, you can use a Shedinja with False Swipe and Heal Block versus Kyogre, who can't hurt it at all. Groudon is tougher... something with Worry Seed, to start...
Anyway, I've played about 20 hours and only have 2 badges. :P
-
I wasn't sure you could knock them out, and I didn't really think about checking if you could. Either way, my Kyogre sits in a Master Ball and I probably won't touch him again.
I've run through the game trying to catch every new monster. I'm not that fond of third gen in general, so I wanted to get to the post game.
Also, would anyone be interested in running/playing a f.ds Pokémon tournament? It could be as serious or casual as we want it.
Also, I hate the Smogon tiers. I remember back in the day when they made fun of Edgar-clause. Now it feels like they're getting closer and closer to it.
-
I think the Smogon tiers are the best we have, unless you really enjoy playing Anything Goes. And gen VI bans are really nothing at all resembling Edgar Clause, lol...
-
I think the Smogon tiers are the best we have, unless you really enjoy playing Anything Goes. And gen VI bans are really nothing at all resembling Edgar Clause, lol...
The second biggest problem with Smogon rules (not just tiers, but all rules) is that everything gets grandfathered over from one gen to the next. Stuff like OHKO clause, Evasion clause, and Sleep Clause are relics of the past, but there's no way the old guard at Smogon will ever repeal them. That would make the game "less competitive".
As for the "tiers", those may very well be the best tiers for gameplay in their crazy, archaic 6v6 Singles game. But (this is the biggest problem with Smogon's rules), 6v6 Singles is a pretty silly way to play Pokemon these days. GameFreak isn't trying to balance the game for that format at all. Rather, they're assuming 3v3 Singles (with team preview). The most in-your-face example is the omnipresence of Stealth Rock in Smogon's ruleset. With so many Pokemon in your roster, switching is way more often the best move, so entry hazards become ultra-important. This in turn means that a bunch of Pokemon that are weak to Rock-type attacks just automatically get way worse.
EDIT: Basically, while billing itself as being the premier site for competitive Pokemon, Smogon has ceased playing the game as it is meant to be played. The equivalent would be if most of f.DS conversation were dominated with talk about a variant of Dominion that had no limit on actions or buys. Everybody on the site would just assume that, unless otherwise stated, that was the game being discussed. And we would have a few cards that were banned (like Copper or Gardens to avoid that combo) and lots of the existing cards that give +Actions and +Buys would be put into a lower "tier" for players who got sick of games where each player spammed non-terminal Torturers until someone won. And of course some cards (like Village) would never see use at all.
-
Basically, while billing itself as being the premier site for competitive Pokemon, Smogon has ceased playing the game as it is meant to be played.
I don't know how you are so confident that Smogon "has ceased playing the game as it is meant to be played." Do you work for Game Freak?
I don't buy the argument that Game Freak is trying to balance the format for 3v3 singles. 3v3 singles is even more chaotic than 6v6 singles. There is no evidence to support this assertion; Game Freak has been doing 3v3 singles since Pokemon Stadium and it has been doing 6v6 singles since RBY. Somehow, a format in which switching is important is "a pretty silly way to play Pokemon." Dude, do you even Pokemon? Switching is one of the most important mechanics that allow a player to avoid a direct matchup in which one Pokemon will certainly lose.
(Actually, the strongest evidence is that Game Freak is "balancing" Pokemon for 4v4 doubles, because all official tournaments since, like, 2006 have been 4v4 doubles. But I really don't see what beef you have with Smogon making tier lists for 6v6 singles, especially since those tier lists apply only for 6v6 singles anyway and not for other formats like VGC or 6v6 doubles.)
The second biggest problem with Smogon rules (not just tiers, but all rules) is that everything gets grandfathered over from one gen to the next. Stuff like OHKO clause, Evasion clause, and Sleep Clause are relics of the past, but there's no way the old guard at Smogon will ever repeal them. That would make the game "less competitive".
Um, how is this a problem? OHKOs and Evasion have been fundamentally unchanged since their inception, and Sleep Clause is not "a relic of the past." You've made assertions without evidence, so I'll dismiss them without evidence, thanks.
EDIT: Basically, while billing itself as being the premier site for competitive Pokemon, Smogon has ceased playing the game as it is meant to be played. The equivalent would be if most of f.DS conversation were dominated with talk about a variant of Dominion that had no limit on actions or buys. Everybody on the site would just assume that, unless otherwise stated, that was the game being discussed. And we would have a few cards that were banned (like Copper or Gardens to avoid that combo) and lots of the existing cards that give +Actions and +Buys would be put into a lower "tier" for players who got sick of games where each player spammed non-terminal Torturers until someone won. And of course some cards (like Village) would never see use at all.
lol, this is rich; the Dominion analogy doesn't hold because Dominion and Pokemon feature completely different mechanics, and this is entirely not representative of Smogon anyway. Try harder next time!
-
I don't actually play competitive pokemon, but doesn't the matchmaking system in gen VI allow you to play 6v6 singles? With like, a ladder and everything? And Pokemon as an RPG video game is primarily singles, so there is that too.
I get that Game Freak prefers competitive doubles but Smogon is not at all like Dominion with unlimited actions and buys. There is no official avenue to play Dominion that way, and there is no major game mode with that kind of ruleset.
-
I don't know how you are so confident that Smogon "has ceased playing the game as it is meant to be played." Do you work for Game Freak?
I don't buy the argument that Game Freak is trying to balance the format for 3v3 singles. 3v3 singles is even more chaotic than 6v6 singles. There is no evidence to support this assertion; Game Freak has been doing 3v3 singles since Pokemon Stadium and it has been doing 6v6 singles since RBY. Somehow, a format in which switching is important is "a pretty silly way to play Pokemon." Dude, do you even Pokemon? Switching is one of the most important mechanics that allow a player to avoid a direct matchup in which one Pokemon will certainly lose.
I am willing to bet that you haven't played much competitive 3v3 Singles if you're claiming that it's even more chaotic than 6v6. It's definitely different, but it's not really more luck-based. You still have 6 Pokemon to choose from; you just have to choose three of them based on your opponent's team and what you think they're likely to use against your team. Thing is, even if it is a bit more luck-based, there's still plenty of skill involved and luck evens out when playing on a ladder.
All the games that have been used as the tournament platforms for Pokemon (Stadium, Colosseum, Battle Revolution) have used 3v3 for their Singles games. Once tournament play moved to the portable games in 5th gen, that format became available there to. As mentioned, stuff like Stealth Rock should be a pretty big hint that 6v6 isn't what GameFreak cares about. "Gee, let's introduce a move that just cripples a bunch of Pokemon and is so powerful that it gets used in every match." GameFreak changes a bunch of existing mechanics between generations. 6th gen alone tweaked the power of 50 moves! It dramatically changed the critical hit mechanics! It nerfed weather-causing Abilities down to 5 turns! Etc., etc. If you accept that GameFreak made all these minor balancing tweaks but left Stealth Rock (a move that cuts Charizard's HP in half when it switches in) unchanged just for lulz, you're kidding yourself. They left it alone because in 3v3—a format where you can't afford to switch constantly—Stealth Rock is a pretty niche move that you mostly use in tandem with phazing, etc.
I'm not claiming that "a format in which switching is important" is "a pretty silly way to play Pokemon". There's still switching in 3v3 Singles. It's still important. It's just not >%75 of your turns.
(Actually, the strongest evidence is that Game Freak is "balancing" Pokemon for 4v4 doubles, because all official tournaments since, like, 2006 have been 4v4 doubles. But I really don't see what beef you have with Smogon making tier lists for 6v6 singles, especially since those tier lists apply only for 6v6 singles anyway and not for other formats like VGC or 6v6 doubles.)
Yes, the format GameFreak seems to care most about is 4v4 Doubles (thank goodness), but my comments were made just within the context of Single Battles.
The only "beef" I have is that the entire English-speaking Pokemon internet community has accepted Smogon's rules as the de facto way to play the game. Really that is GameFreak's fault, though, for not providing a strong push for a single format from the very beginning. Other than that, I have no issue with Smogonites playing by whatever silly rules they want. I just reserve the right to call them silly.
The second biggest problem with Smogon rules (not just tiers, but all rules) is that everything gets grandfathered over from one gen to the next. Stuff like OHKO clause, Evasion clause, and Sleep Clause are relics of the past, but there's no way the old guard at Smogon will ever repeal them. That would make the game "less competitive".
Um, how is this a problem? OHKOs and Evasion have been fundamentally unchanged since their inception, and Sleep Clause is not "a relic of the past." You've made assertions without evidence, so I'll dismiss them without evidence, thanks.
OHKOs and Evasion haven't changed, but all the other game mechanics have. It's about context. There are a ton of moves that bypass accuracy checks and most of them aren't damaging moves. Evasion-raising thereby promotes the use of more interesting strategies like Perish Song, etc. OHKOs may have been crazy back in the day, but do you know how much power creep there's been in Pokemon since then? Probably you do. OHKOs were banned back when Hyper Beam was a reasonable option on Gyarados and Life Orb and Choice items didn't exist!
Sleep mechanics changed a lot between 4th and 5th gens and there are more ways to fight sleep with every new generation. Even if you don't have a counter, Sleep doesn't seem so bad now. IF the sleep-inducing move hits, there's a 1 in 3 chance that you wake up after one turn of sleep, so the sleep user netted nothing.
The equivalent would be if most of f.DS conversation were dominated with talk about a variant of Dominion that had no limit on actions or buys. Everybody on the site would just assume that, unless otherwise stated, that was the game being discussed. And we would have a few cards that were banned (like Copper or Gardens to avoid that combo) and lots of the existing cards that give +Actions and +Buys would be put into a lower "tier" for players who got sick of games where each player spammed non-terminal Torturers until someone won. And of course some cards (like Village) would never see use at all.
lol, this is rich; the Dominion analogy doesn't hold because Dominion and Pokemon feature completely different mechanics, and this is entirely not representative of Smogon anyway. Try harder next time!
I think it's a fine analogy. Yes, the mechanics are completely different. That's why it's an analogy.
-
The only "beef" I have is that the entire English-speaking Pokemon internet community has accepted Smogon's rules as the de facto way to play the game. Really that is GameFreak's fault, though, for not providing a strong push for a single format from the very beginning. Other than that, I have no issue with Smogonites playing by whatever silly rules they want. I just reserve the right to call them silly.
I'm not sure about that. From what I've seen, Smogon has as many haters as it has fans, and the hate seems hyperbolic in the same way that fans are overly supportive. Smogon meta is interesting in its own right, there is decent rationale behind their bans, and afaik it's a product of community discussion, not some sort of dictatorial decree.
In Dominion analogy, the argument around Smogon seems more like the argument over enabling the VP tracker.
-
Banning OHKO is like banning a Treasure Map that gave 5 platinums.
Banning sleep is like banning a Militia that says "Each opponent discards 2 cards" from having an attack effect more than once.
Banning Ubers is like banning rebuild, minion, and torturer.
The bans may be bad, but they're not silly.
6v6 singles is what the most dramatic battles in the game (Champion), Anime (rival/dragonite guy) and manga (championships) are. They're more epic than any other format.
-
I am willing to bet that you haven't played much competitive 3v3 Singles if you're claiming that it's even more chaotic than 6v6. It's definitely different, but it's not really more luck-based. You still have 6 Pokemon to choose from; you just have to choose three of them based on your opponent's team and what you think they're likely to use against your team. Thing is, even if it is a bit more luck-based, there's still plenty of skill involved and luck evens out when playing on a ladder.
What I take from this is an admission that 3v3 singles is more luck-based than 6v6 singles.
All the games that have been used as the tournament platforms for Pokemon (Stadium, Colosseum, Battle Revolution) have used 3v3 for their Singles games. Once tournament play moved to the portable games in 5th gen, that format became available there to.
I'm fairly certain that official tournaments have always been held on handhelds and never on consoles.
As mentioned, stuff like Stealth Rock should be a pretty big hint that 6v6 isn't what GameFreak cares about. "Gee, let's introduce a move that just cripples a bunch of Pokemon and is so powerful that it gets used in every match." GameFreak changes a bunch of existing mechanics between generations. 6th gen alone tweaked the power of 50 moves! It dramatically changed the critical hit mechanics! It nerfed weather-causing Abilities down to 5 turns! Etc., etc. If you accept that GameFreak made all these minor balancing tweaks but left Stealth Rock (a move that cuts Charizard's HP in half when it switches in) unchanged just for lulz, you're kidding yourself.
This is a ridiculous extrapolation. First of all, Game Freak introducing small changes for the sake of "balance" does not indicate that Game Freak actually knows how to balance its own game. Game Freak also gave +10 stat boosts to some Pokemon. Does giving Exploud +10 SpDef seriously make it an iota more viable? If you want to use these tweaks as evidence that Game Freak is balancing Pokemon for some hypothesized purpose, you may not ignore the evidence to the contrary.
Secondly, we do not know if Game Freak nerfed auto-weather because it was too powerful or because they wanted a niche for Primordial Sea and Desolate Land, which are just better versions of auto-weather from previous generations.
Thirdly, Stealth Rock did receive a big nerf in the form of a Defog buff. Stealth Rock is not the only egregiously centralizing component in the game. The creators of Stealth Rock also dreamed up things like Prankster and Shadow Tag.
The only "beef" I have is that the entire English-speaking Pokemon internet community has accepted Smogon's rules as the de facto way to play the game. Really that is GameFreak's fault, though, for not providing a strong push for a single format from the very beginning. Other than that, I have no issue with Smogonites playing by whatever silly rules they want. I just reserve the right to call them silly.
Smogon's rules are actually quite scientific. You've provided no reasoning as to why they're silly; you've simply stated repeatedly that you find them silly.
OHKOs and Evasion haven't changed, but all the other game mechanics have. It's about context. There are a ton of moves that bypass accuracy checks and most of them aren't damaging moves. Evasion-raising thereby promotes the use of more interesting strategies like Perish Song, etc. OHKOs may have been crazy back in the day, but do you know how much power creep there's been in Pokemon since then? Probably you do. OHKOs were banned back when Hyper Beam was a reasonable option on Gyarados and Life Orb and Choice items didn't exist!
The problem with countering evasion now is the same as it has always been: strategies that counter evasion are not good strategies in and of themselves. That's the whole reason why evasion is banned - if teams are forced to run a Pokemon or moveslot to counter evasion and that Pokemon serves no other purpose, then evasion is centralizing.
OHKOs are banned because they're completely luck-based. Power creep or not, Pokemon can still be countered with other Pokemon until you allow OHKO moves.
Sleep mechanics changed a lot between 4th and 5th gens and there are more ways to fight sleep with every new generation. Even if you don't have a counter, Sleep doesn't seem so bad now. IF the sleep-inducing move hits, there's a 1 in 3 chance that you wake up after one turn of sleep, so the sleep user netted nothing.
I need evidence to support this assertion that "sleep doesn't seem so bad now." One of the more common teams on the Anything Goes ladder features 6 Darkrai.
I think it's a fine analogy. Yes, the mechanics are completely different. That's why it's an analogy.
It's actually a very bad analogy. Dominion kingdoms are randomly generated, so the existence of power cards isn't bad because they're not in every kingdom.
If you had access to all published cards in every game, then centralization becomes a problem. That's the Dominion equivalent to Pokemon - if you had the freedom to build any kind of deck from any of the cards available. The strongest decks involve some combination of Chapel, Quarry, Bridge, and King's Court. The strongest teams in a no-clause Pokemon metagame involve some combination of Mega Rayquaza, Arceus, Darkrai, and Klefki.
-
The strongest teams in a no-clause Pokemon metagame involve some combination of Mega Rayquaza, Arceus, Darkrai, and Klefki.
Not sure if serious, but I hope so. I've loved Klefki since the first time I saw it (when XY was leaking).
-
6 Klefki teams are a common sight on the Anything Goes ladder. Pretty much all of them run Thunder Wave / Swagger / Substitute / Foul Play.
-
6 Klefki teams are a common sight on the Anything Goes ladder. Pretty much all of them run Thunder Wave / Swagger / Substitute / Foul Play.
Oh. Hahaha. OK, I guess that makes sense.
I used a Klefki when I was running through super triples in XY Battle Maison for the first 50 or so battles. It was a support set though, with T-Wave, dual screens and Foul Play. Pretty fun stuff. I'd use the parafusion set but a little bad luck can ruin it and it's not as resilient outside singles anyway.
Also used a Klefki through the story, with a suboptimal offensive set. Because that's how it works during the plot. :P
-
My main beef with Smogon is that they want to create this "fair fight experience". Not only by banning stuff that's too good, but also stuff that's too swingy or makes the game center around it. But at the same time they leave other super powerful, swingy or game-centric stuff in.
Also, the more you restrict, the less "outside the box" battling is left. If you want monsters hitting each other in turn as the only element of the game, that's fine, but I like stuff like Swagger/Foul Play, FEAR and stuff like that. It's creative. But apparently not competitive.
I do agree that it's good that it exists, since the game is skewed from the start. I just wish that they were more consistent with their monster/move/item-hate.
In general I don't really like third parties making variants, because they "make the game better". In the case of Pokémon, house rules are needed for variation, though. I just don't agree with Smogon being the "only" and "true" way, aside from VGC.
-
I'm not sure about that. From what I've seen, Smogon has as many haters as it has fans, and the hate seems hyperbolic in the same way that fans are overly supportive. Smogon meta is interesting in its own right, there is decent rationale behind their bans, and afaik it's a product of community discussion, not some sort of dictatorial decree.
It absolutely does not matter how many fans or haters Smogon has; its rules are the de facto standard. Example: All the Pokemon of the Week sets and analyses on serebii.net assume Smogon's rules and talk about their tiers explicitly.
Smogon's rules are (or were the last time I checked) a product of a very weighted "community discussion" where the top players of the existing game—the ones with the most incentive to maintain the status quo—are the ones that call the shots. dondon, how are these rules "sceintific"? I don't think that word means what you think it means.
In Dominion analogy, the argument around Smogon seems more like the argument over enabling the VP tracker.
No. The equivalent to a VP tracker in Pokemon would be maybe tracking the current HP bars and status conditions of Pokemon that aren't currently in play. I can't speak for everyone, but whether or not I have access to a VP tracker doesn't dramatically change my strategy in a game Dominion. In Pokemon, 3v3 Singles and 6v6 Singles are radically different games.
dondon, just to be clear, I never suggested that an "Anything Goes" ruleset was a good idea. I support banning the cover and event legendary Pokemon and enforcing Species and Item clauses (to promote variety).
The problem here is that I think we each want to get something different out of competitive Pokemon. For me, Pokemon promises lots of variety and Smogon's ruleset is designed to eliminate most of that variety such that each team can cover all its bases and beat each other team and good play wins out over luck as much as possible. Smogon's entire 6v6 metagame is centered around switch-to-a-counter dancing, carefully eliminating anything that can prevent you from sweeping, and then sweeping. Most of the teams look pretty much the same. Special wall, physical wall, rock setter, rapid spinner, sweeper. Leftovers on all the walls, Life Orb or Choice items on all the attackers. BORING! It's so fucking boring! And having 6 Pokemon in your active roster is the primary reason it pans out this way. The more options you have to switch to, the more often switching is a better move than attacking. And on top of that Smogon bans some of the biggest "threats" to this system, like OHKO moves.
What I take from this is an admission that 3v3 singles is more luck-based than 6v6 singles.
Yes, possibly a bit. In my opinion, the massive amount of new options that would be made viable far outweighs the relatively minor increase in "luck". But luck doesn't increase nearly as much as you might think. You basically have a sideboard, so you have the potential to cover your bases. You just have to be smart about which 3 Pokemon you choose to bring into the match.
The problem with countering evasion now is the same as it has always been: strategies that counter evasion are not good strategies in and of themselves. That's the whole reason why evasion is banned - if teams are forced to run a Pokemon or moveslot to counter evasion and that Pokemon serves no other purpose, then evasion is centralizing.
OHKOs are banned because they're completely luck-based. Power creep or not, Pokemon can still be countered with other Pokemon until you allow OHKO moves.
You are looking at this from such a Smogon-centric perspective that you don't even realize your arguments are circular. The assumption that you have to be able to potentially counter all possible threats with one team in order for the game to be "competitive" is fallacious.
-
Banning OHKO is like banning a Treasure Map that gave 5 platinums.
Banning sleep is like banning a Militia that says "Each opponent discards 2 cards" from having an attack effect more than once.
Banning Ubers is like banning rebuild, minion, and torturer.
The bans may be bad, but they're not silly.
I think you're overstating these. You could say that banning OHKOs is like banning Treasure Map as printed, though that's not a great analogy because Treasure Map has enablers and absolutely nothing makes OHKO moves hit more often.
Sleep Clause is the rule we've been discussing here that makes the most sense. BUT, Sleep mechanics have changed pretty dramatically in 5th gen and I think it's worth trying the game without the clause first.
Banning "Ubers" is a obviously a good idea, though what constitutes an "Uber" is up for debate. In a game where switching to a counter is no longer the correct move 90% of the time, Wobbuffet isn't quite so dominating.
6v6 singles is what the most dramatic battles in the game (Champion), Anime (rival/dragonite guy) and manga (championships) are. They're more epic than any other format.
First of all, that's just your opinion. Second, comparing in-game battles (with items, uneven levels, etc.) and competitive battles is apples and oranges. And what makes a good anime or manga does not necessarily also make a good game.
-
Smogon's rules are (or were the last time I checked) a product of a very weighted "community discussion" where the top players of the existing game—the ones with the most incentive to maintain the status quo—are the ones that call the shots. dondon, how are these rules "sceintific"? I don't think that word means what you think it means.
You sound a little confused here. How are the top players of Smogon's metagame interested in "maintaining the status quo" when they vote to ban something rather than to retain it? The top players who qualify to vote in a suspect test stand to benefit from keeping an overcentralizing Pokemon or mechanic because they are the best at using it.
The impact of the rules are measurable in terms of (ranked) usage stats, and the banning process itself is methodical. That's why I say they're scientific.
Also, the more you restrict, the less "outside the box" battling is left. If you want monsters hitting each other in turn as the only element of the game, that's fine, but I like stuff like Swagger/Foul Play, FEAR and stuff like that. It's creative. But apparently not competitive.
dondon, just to be clear, I never suggested that an "Anything Goes" ruleset was a good idea. I support banning the cover and event legendary Pokemon and enforcing Species and Item clauses (to promote variety).
The problem here is that I think we each want to get something different out of competitive Pokemon. For me, Pokemon promises lots of variety and Smogon's ruleset is designed to eliminate most of that variety such that each team can cover all its bases and beat each other team and good play wins out over luck as much as possible. Smogon's entire 6v6 metagame is centered around switch-to-a-counter dancing, carefully eliminating anything that can prevent you from sweeping, and then sweeping. Most of the teams look pretty much the same. Special wall, physical wall, rock setter, rapid spinner, sweeper. Leftovers on all the walls, Life Orb or Choice items on all the attackers. BORING! It's so fucking boring! And having 6 Pokemon in your active roster is the primary reason it pans out this way. The more options you have to switch to, the more often switching is a better move than attacking. And on top of that Smogon bans some of the biggest "threats" to this system, like OHKO moves.
I vehemently disagree with both of you. You're under the illusion that the current roles in the metagame are "boring," yet without Sleep Clause or Swagger Clause, the metagames would be even more "boring." That's precisely why the bans exist! So now, for example, instead of walls *, which can be one of several Pokemon, you would much prefer to run Prankster + Thunder Wave + Swagger users, which are limited to Klefki and Thundurus. So much for increasing variety! If you haven't noticed by now, centralizing strategies are banned because they greatly limit the space of viable teams. If you really cared about a varied metagame, you should be the first to jump on the Smogon bandwagon.
(Also, FEAR is not banned...)
The point is that Lekkit's statement, "the more you restrict, the less 'outside the box' battling is left" is strictly untrue. It is actually the case that the more you restrict (within limits), the more varied battling results! For example, why does LastFootnote advocate retaining Uber bans but not Sleep Clause or Swagger Clause? There's no consistent reasoning behind keeping one and not the other - LastFootnote tacitly acknowledges that restricting certain Pokemon leads to a better (in his opinion) metagame. But we know that not all cover legendaries are banworthy; Black Kyurem is OU and Zygarde is UU, to the best of my knowledge, and both of them are much weaker than Pokemon like Mega Kangaskhan or even Talonflame.
* LastFootnote's generalization about team composition is completely untrue. That sort of team composition may have been viable back in gen III, but nowadays most teams are designed around helping set up a win condition, which is basically to say that they're built around supporting one or two Pokemon.
You are looking at this from such a Smogon-centric perspective that you don't even realize your arguments are circular. The assumption that you have to be able to potentially counter all possible threats with one team in order for the game to be "competitive" is fallacious.
I resent this accusation. I didn't even use the word "competitive" in any of my quoted sentences, and I never said that a team had to be able to counter all possible threats to be viable (in fact, I said the opposite earlier in this post). I am not engaging in a fallacy so much as you are engaging in a straw man.
-
My main beef with Smogon is that they want to create this "fair fight experience". Not only by banning stuff that's too good, but also stuff that's too swingy or makes the game center around it. But at the same time they leave other super powerful, swingy or game-centric stuff in.
Also, the more you restrict, the less "outside the box" battling is left. If you want monsters hitting each other in turn as the only element of the game, that's fine, but I like stuff like Swagger/Foul Play, FEAR and stuff like that. It's creative. But apparently not competitive.
I do agree that it's good that it exists, since the game is skewed from the start. I just wish that they were more consistent with their monster/move/item-hate.
In general I don't really like third parties making variants, because they "make the game better". In the case of Pokémon, house rules are needed for variation, though. I just don't agree with Smogon being the "only" and "true" way, aside from VGC.
I am pretty sure Swagger/Foul Play is viable, especially with Prankster pokemon. (Edit: but apparently it's banned? OK then.) FEAR is more viable in Smogon meta than it would be in doubles, because two opposing pokemon are a way bigger threat to a FEAR pokemon. Focus Sash and Sturdy aren't enough then, and Fake Out is a lot better in doubles too.
Other than a vocal minority, I don't think people consider Smogon the only true way. There are plenty of communities centered on VGC; Smogon itself has a forum for it. People also tend to forget that the tier lists aren't exactly ban lists. If you want to use a UU pokemon in ubers, you are certainly free to do so. And then you can also play Anything Goes or, for even crazier stuff, you can try hackmons. If you want to go a different direction, you can play Little Cup and use pokemon that would never get play in any other format!
The online battling with XY showed that a lack of restrictions really limits creativity for singles battling. People were constantly complaining about how every team had the same several super powerful pokemon. And then there are very valid complaints that 3v3 singles often felt like Rock-Paper-Scissors.
I'm not saying other formats are bad. The simple truth is that 6v6 singles is a popular way to play, but the meta becomes very centralized with no restrictions at all. The specific restrictions that Smogon has may not be perfect, and maybe they are a bit overbearing in some places, but the nature of restrictions is that no one set will satisfy everybody. As far as all that goes, Smogon does a pretty good job.
It absolutely does not matter how many fans or haters Smogon has; its rules are the de facto standard. Example: All the Pokemon of the Week sets and analyses on serebii.net assume Smogon's rules and talk about their tiers explicitly.
Smogon's rules are (or were the last time I checked) a product of a very weighted "community discussion" where the top players of the existing game—the ones with the most incentive to maintain the status quo—are the ones that call the shots. dondon, how are these rules "sceintific"? I don't think that word means what you think it means.
Things become de facto for a reason. Even then, there are certainly communities for non-Smogon formats. This complaint sounds like it's hating on them just because they are popular. And here is a snippet from a post I found on their Facebook page:
We would like to remind everyone that this potential tiering change would only affect the official, usage-based Smogon Tiers (OU to NU); tiers such as Ubers, Balanced-Hackmons and Monotype will not reflect this change. This change would only be made on our tournaments and our ladders. You are, of course, more than welcome to play by whatever rulesets you desire on your own servers and tournaments.
Additionally, we would like to stress that we never have nor ever will claim these are Nintendo-official rules; they are Smogon-official rules that are ONLY enforced in OUR environments. We feel there are many ways to enjoy Pokemon, whether singles, doubles, online, or wifi, and we don't feel any one method or metagame is "better" than another (though we obviously emphasize certain ones).
Finally, it's extremely important to note that YOU have the DIRECT ability to influence these changes; simply play on the suspect ladders, qualify, and vote. The algorithm that determines qualification credentials emphasizes BOTH experience and quality of play, so you don't need to be a "smogon elite" with a 90% win percentage to qualify (if you have a lower win %, you just need to play more games).
So no, it's not only top players who have a say.
No. The equivalent to a VP tracker in Pokemon would be maybe tracking the current HP bars and status conditions of Pokemon that aren't currently in play. I can't speak for everyone, but whether or not I have access to a VP tracker doesn't dramatically change my strategy in a game Dominion. In Pokemon, 3v3 Singles and 6v6 Singles are radically different games.
OK, here's a better analogy then:
The difference between playing with Smogon's format and restrictions and not doing so is like the difference between playing Dominion with randomization between only two sets at a time or playing Dominion with All Random, or playing ranked Dominion with some sort of veto method. There are arguments for both. Some players have very strong feelings about which way is better (there's previously been some fierce discussion about veto method, or whether veto should be allowed at all for ranked games).
The problem here is that I think we each want to get something different out of competitive Pokemon. For me, Pokemon promises lots of variety and Smogon's ruleset is designed to eliminate most of that variety such that each team can cover all its bases and beat each other team and good play wins out over luck as much as possible. Smogon's entire 6v6 metagame is centered around switch-to-a-counter dancing, carefully eliminating anything that can prevent you from sweeping, and then sweeping. Most of the teams look pretty much the same. Special wall, physical wall, rock setter, rapid spinner, sweeper. Leftovers on all the walls, Life Orb or Choice items on all the attackers. BORING! It's so fucking boring! And having 6 Pokemon in your active roster is the primary reason it pans out this way. The more options you have to switch to, the more often switching is a better move than attacking. And on top of that Smogon bans some of the biggest "threats" to this system, like OHKO moves.
But that's just, like, your opinion. You could also say that Smogon's ruleset is designed to eliminate centralizing elements, and that the intricate check and counter "dancing" between opponents is interesting and highly entertaining, with great diversity in how different roles are fulfilled and executed, and multiple tiers to let weaker pokemon have a chance at the spotlight.
And to be completely clear here, I count myself as impartial in this debate. I don't play on Smogon, I have no horse in this race. It just bothers me how vociferously I've seen people argue against Smogon, as if they are some evil organization intent on stripping away all fun from a game. I'm sure there are fair criticisms of Smogon, but I haven't really seen any.
Yes, possibly a bit. In my opinion, the massive amount of new options that would be made viable far outweighs the relatively minor increase in "luck". But luck doesn't increase nearly as much as you might think. You basically have a sideboard, so you have the potential to cover your bases. You just have to be smart about which 3 Pokemon you choose to bring into the match.
Are there stats on this? Last I heard, the meta in the official ranked matches was incredibly samey.
Banning OHKO is like banning a Treasure Map that gave 5 platinums.
Banning sleep is like banning a Militia that says "Each opponent discards 2 cards" from having an attack effect more than once.
Banning Ubers is like banning rebuild, minion, and torturer.
The bans may be bad, but they're not silly.
I think you're overstating these. You could say that banning OHKOs is like banning Treasure Map as printed, though that's not a great analogy because Treasure Map has enablers and absolutely nothing makes OHKO moves hit more often.
Sleep Clause is the rule we've been discussing here that makes the most sense. BUT, Sleep mechanics have changed pretty dramatically in 5th gen and I think it's worth trying the game without the clause first.
Banning "Ubers" is a obviously a good idea, though what constitutes an "Uber" is up for debate. In a game where switching to a counter is no longer the correct move 90% of the time, Wobbuffet isn't quite so dominating.
I think his "Plat Map" comparison is closer to OHKO moves than regular Treasure Map. Having a OHKO trigger in Pokemon is a huge boost (especially in 3v3 -- that's 33% of your team gone). Connecting Treasure Maps is nice but not quite game-changing. Aren't there ways to make OHKO moves hit more often -- No Guard, Lock-On, Mind Reader?
IMO, it would be OK to leave OHKO moves unbanned because they are weak anyway. They would swing matches once in a while but would lose out in the long run. But for that same reason, I don't see why Game Freak made OHKO moves at all. They are so unreliable that using them successfully is far more a matter of luck than skill. That makes them really underwhelming for in-game play and also unsatisfying in competitive matches even when they work. And for that reason, I don't see a problem with banning them either.
Smogon does suspect testing. I would wager that they did try the game without the clause for a while when the mechanics were changed, and then decided to ban it again after that testing. Granted, didn't the gen V change to sleep actually make it a stronger status condition? Yes, it went from 1-4 turns down to 1-3, but the counter would reset if you switched out. Gen VI repealed that so the counter wouldn't reset.
6v6 singles is what the most dramatic battles in the game (Champion), Anime (rival/dragonite guy) and manga (championships) are. They're more epic than any other format.
First of all, that's just your opinion. Second, comparing in-game battles (with items, uneven levels, etc.) and competitive battles is apples and oranges. And what makes a good anime or manga does not necessarily also make a good game.
It's not just XP's opinion. It's an opinion shared by many players. Plenty of people enjoy 6v6 over other formats, and part of the reason for that is how battles work in-game and in other media. You might not be a fan of Smogon's rules, and that's fair, but plenty of people like it and that's fair too.
-
Smogon does suspect testing. I would wager that they did try the game without the clause for a while when the mechanics were changed, and then decided to ban it again after that testing. Granted, didn't the gen V change to sleep actually make it a stronger status condition? Yes, it went from 1-4 turns down to 1-3, but the counter would reset if you switched out. Gen VI repealed that so the counter wouldn't reset.
I'm almost certain that Sleep Clause was grandfathered, but there's no way that unrestricted sleep would make 6v6 singles a more "varied" metagame.
-
I vehemently disagree with both of you. You're under the illusion that the current roles in the metagame are "boring," yet without Sleep Clause or Swagger Clause, the metagames would be even more "boring." That's precisely why the bans exist! So now, for example, instead of walls *, which can be one of several Pokemon, you would much prefer to run Prankster + Thunder Wave + Swagger users, which are limited to Klefki and Thundurus. So much for increasing variety! If you haven't noticed by now, centralizing strategies are banned because they greatly limit the space of viable teams. If you really cared about a varied metagame, you should be the first to jump on the Smogon bandwagon.
(Also, FEAR is not banned...)
Here's the thing. You are under the illusion that one thing is boring while another is not. We are different. And enjoy different stuff. To say that I'm under the illusion that one thing is boring and that I would certainly think another thing is more boring is kind of rude.
I haven't been playing much online Pokémon since the end of fourth gen/beginning of fifth. But I clearly remember always seeing the same 10 monsters over and over again. Once in a while you saw something weird, but that was an anomaly. It may have been my less than stellar ranking, but if Smogon is for everyone and making the game more diverse, then I can tell you. At least then, it wasn't working properly.
I know FEAR isn't banned. It was just another example of what I consider out of the box.
The point is that Lekkit's statement, "the more you restrict, the less 'outside the box' battling is left" is strictly untrue. It is actually the case that the more you restrict (within limits), the more varied battling results! For example, why does LastFootnote advocate retaining Uber bans but not Sleep Clause or Swagger Clause? There's no consistent reasoning behind keeping one and not the other - LastFootnote tacitly acknowledges that restricting certain Pokemon leads to a better (in his opinion) metagame. But we know that not all cover legendaries are banworthy; Black Kyurem is OU and Zygarde is UU, to the best of my knowledge, and both of them are much weaker than Pokemon like Mega Kangaskhan or even Talonflame.
* LastFootnote's generalization about team composition is completely untrue. That sort of team composition may have been viable back in gen III, but nowadays most teams are designed around helping set up a win condition, which is basically to say that they're built around supporting one or two Pokemon.
I'm not talking about the pool of monsters. I'm talking about what the monsters actually do. Also, I don't see how LastFootnote's generalization is NOT a team that is built around supporting one monster. There may be other ways to do it, though, and that's fine. But you're still having a team that's built around supporting one or two monsters. That's not really as diverse as things could be, IMO.
In conclusion, we clearly enjoy different things. I don't really enjoy the Smogon tiers and what they bring to the table. As I've said earlier, I think it's great that they exist, and people are free to use and enjoy them as much as they want. I just don't like them myself. Kind of how I'm not religious, but I think it's great that people are.
-
If you enjoy centralized metas, than props to you. But most people don't.
-
Here's the thing. You are under the illusion that one thing is boring while another is not. We are different. And enjoy different stuff. To say that I'm under the illusion that one thing is boring and that I would certainly think another thing is more boring is kind of rude.
I haven't been playing much online Pokémon since the end of fourth gen/beginning of fifth. But I clearly remember always seeing the same 10 monsters over and over again. Once in a while you saw something weird, but that was an anomaly. It may have been my less than stellar ranking, but if Smogon is for everyone and making the game more diverse, then I can tell you. At least then, it wasn't working properly.
The problem with Pokemon and all competitive games that feature nonequivalent characters is that some characters are stronger than others, and disproportionately so. For Pokemon in particular, some strategies are stronger than others. In gen V, rain was the dominant strategy even though all forms of auto-weather induction existed.
Regardless of the metagame, you are going to see the "same 10 monsters over and over again." This is true whether you play ubers, OU, UU, RU, NU, VGC, and so on. That's just how competitive games are. If you manage to come up with some exotic strategy, it's going to fall into 1 of 3 camps: it's consistently weak, it's consistently strong, or it's plainly inconsistent. If you've picked a consistently weak strategy, then you've just picked a bad strategy, and you only get brownie points for "thinking out of the box" (think Trick Room in singles). If you've picked a consistently strong strategy, then that strategy will eventually crowd out weaker strategies (think rain in gen V or Baton Pass). If you've picked an inconsistent strategy, you're just going to annoy opponents with variance (think OHKO, evasion).
It's disingenuous to label all sorts of teams built around supporting a Pokemon or a core of Pokemon as the same. The Pokemon themselves are different; they are susceptible to different opponent Pokemon; they require different win conditions. You can build teams designed around quickly gaining momentum (often through switching, which is why LastFootnote's dislike of switching confounds me) or around preventing your opponent from gaining momentum. The implication that Smogon's metagame encourages monolithic teams is like lumping rain and trick room into the same archetype despite the fact that they are very different.
On switching: in 6v6 singles, assuming that none of your Pokemon are fainted, you have more options in switching than you have in selecting moves. It is a fundamental aspect of the game that dramatically increases the number of options a player has on any given turn in battle. Complaining that a Pokemon metagame has "too much switching" is as equally ridiculous as complaining that a Pokemon metagame has "too much attacking."
-
... can't we just go back to this? (without the high school bit in the middle)
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f278/katietiedrich/comic146.png)
-
The problem with Pokemon and all competitive games that feature nonequivalent characters is that some characters are stronger than others, and disproportionately so. For Pokemon in particular, some strategies are stronger than others. In gen V, rain was the dominant strategy even though all forms of auto-weather induction existed.
Regardless of the metagame, you are going to see the "same 10 monsters over and over again." This is true whether you play ubers, OU, UU, RU, NU, VGC, and so on. That's just how competitive games are. If you manage to come up with some exotic strategy, it's going to fall into 1 of 3 camps: it's consistently weak, it's consistently strong, or it's plainly inconsistent. If you've picked a consistently weak strategy, then you've just picked a bad strategy, and you only get brownie points for "thinking out of the box" (think Trick Room in singles). If you've picked a consistently strong strategy, then that strategy will eventually crowd out weaker strategies (think rain in gen V or Baton Pass). If you've picked an inconsistent strategy, you're just going to annoy opponents with variance (think OHKO, evasion).
Why is there such a big difference between seeing a Scizor/Breloom every game compared to a Klefki/Thundrus? Regardless of which 10 monsters you see, banning out one thing but leaving another comparable in is inconsistent. I honestly don't get why Smogon's tiers are soo good. If their lists are such a variation creator, why is there not that much variation?
-
The problem with Pokemon and all competitive games that feature nonequivalent characters is that some characters are stronger than others, and disproportionately so. For Pokemon in particular, some strategies are stronger than others. In gen V, rain was the dominant strategy even though all forms of auto-weather induction existed.
Regardless of the metagame, you are going to see the "same 10 monsters over and over again." This is true whether you play ubers, OU, UU, RU, NU, VGC, and so on. That's just how competitive games are. If you manage to come up with some exotic strategy, it's going to fall into 1 of 3 camps: it's consistently weak, it's consistently strong, or it's plainly inconsistent. If you've picked a consistently weak strategy, then you've just picked a bad strategy, and you only get brownie points for "thinking out of the box" (think Trick Room in singles). If you've picked a consistently strong strategy, then that strategy will eventually crowd out weaker strategies (think rain in gen V or Baton Pass). If you've picked an inconsistent strategy, you're just going to annoy opponents with variance (think OHKO, evasion).
Why is there such a big difference between seeing a Scizor/Breloom every game compared to a Klefki/Thundrus? Regardless of which 10 monsters you see, banning out one thing but leaving another comparable in is inconsistent. I honestly don't get why Smogon's tiers are soo good. If their lists are such a variation creator, why is there not that much variation?
If it's broken either way, why hate on Smogon?
But there is one obvious way that Smogon tiers increase variety -- you can choose to play in, for example, the UU metagame and be able to use pokemon that aren't the most popular ones.
There also seems to be some confusion here about how Smogon's tiers are constructed. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm like 90% sure that it's based on usage statistics. In the OU metagame, you can use pokemon that are in lower tiers. Being BL tier doesn't necessarily mean the pokemon is weaker, just that it sees less frequent use. If it gained popularity, it might get moved into OU. Likewise, if a previously OU pokemon dropped in usage, it's fair to say that the reason is that it is no longer competitive due to new strategies in the shifting meta, and so that pokemon might drop down into BL or UU.
-
The problem with Pokemon and all competitive games that feature nonequivalent characters is that some characters are stronger than others, and disproportionately so. For Pokemon in particular, some strategies are stronger than others. In gen V, rain was the dominant strategy even though all forms of auto-weather induction existed.
Regardless of the metagame, you are going to see the "same 10 monsters over and over again." This is true whether you play ubers, OU, UU, RU, NU, VGC, and so on. That's just how competitive games are. If you manage to come up with some exotic strategy, it's going to fall into 1 of 3 camps: it's consistently weak, it's consistently strong, or it's plainly inconsistent. If you've picked a consistently weak strategy, then you've just picked a bad strategy, and you only get brownie points for "thinking out of the box" (think Trick Room in singles). If you've picked a consistently strong strategy, then that strategy will eventually crowd out weaker strategies (think rain in gen V or Baton Pass). If you've picked an inconsistent strategy, you're just going to annoy opponents with variance (think OHKO, evasion).
Why is there such a big difference between seeing a Scizor/Breloom every game compared to a Klefki/Thundrus? Regardless of which 10 monsters you see, banning out one thing but leaving another comparable in is inconsistent. I honestly don't get why Smogon's tiers are soo good. If their lists are such a variation creator, why is there not that much variation?
I dunno if it's changed much since the last time I looked at usage statistics (February ish) but back then, in OU for XY no pokemon was on more than about 15-20% of teams, and somewhere around 50-100 pokemon were on at least 1% of teams. You can easily find the numbers on Smogon's forums if you're interested.
15-20% seems fairly low to me, compared to what it could easily be without certain bans. That means even the most 'game dominating' pokemon are only seeing use in about one in five to one in six teams, and they're kept in check because they have counters and checks - if they were more common, then more people would run their counter pokemon, making them poor choices in short.
PPE: I believe what eHalc says is mostly correct, but I believe the BL tiers (Borderline) are effectively a category of "This pokemon doesn't meet the usage criteria to be in OU/UU/RU (for BL/BL2/BL3) but it is too powerful/overcentralising for the next tier down." I might be wrong because I've never been into competitive pokemon.
Edit: Here (http://www.smogon.com/stats/2014-11/ou-1825.txt)'s some recent numbers (OU from November). Looks like the highest four pokemon are in the 20-28% range, which is a little higher than I expected but still means less than one in three teams. 88 pokemon are on 1% or more teams, which is quite a diverse range. It's maybe not quite as diverse as I'd have hoped, but still, that's enough diversity that there's a wide range of good teams you can potentially make.
-
Pokemon Online also has usage stats for every metagame every month: http://stats.pokemon-online.eu/ORAS%20OU/index.html
There are also ranked stats, which only take into account players with >1000 rating: http://stats.pokemon-online.eu/ORAS%20OU/ranked_stats.txt
EDIT: Pokemon Global Link also has unquantified usage rankings for Battle Spot: http://3ds.pokemon-gl.com/battle/oras/
5 out of the top 12 Pokemon are banned from Smogon's OU metagame. Is this format really more varied than 6v6 singles?
-
The problem with Pokemon and all competitive games that feature nonequivalent characters is that some characters are stronger than others, and disproportionately so. For Pokemon in particular, some strategies are stronger than others. In gen V, rain was the dominant strategy even though all forms of auto-weather induction existed.
Regardless of the metagame, you are going to see the "same 10 monsters over and over again." This is true whether you play ubers, OU, UU, RU, NU, VGC, and so on. That's just how competitive games are. If you manage to come up with some exotic strategy, it's going to fall into 1 of 3 camps: it's consistently weak, it's consistently strong, or it's plainly inconsistent. If you've picked a consistently weak strategy, then you've just picked a bad strategy, and you only get brownie points for "thinking out of the box" (think Trick Room in singles). If you've picked a consistently strong strategy, then that strategy will eventually crowd out weaker strategies (think rain in gen V or Baton Pass). If you've picked an inconsistent strategy, you're just going to annoy opponents with variance (think OHKO, evasion).
Why is there such a big difference between seeing a Scizor/Breloom every game compared to a Klefki/Thundrus? Regardless of which 10 monsters you see, banning out one thing but leaving another comparable in is inconsistent. I honestly don't get why Smogon's tiers are soo good. If their lists are such a variation creator, why is there not that much variation?
OU is more diverse than Anything Goes. Relatively, there is "that much variation". It's just that although GameFreak's bad job balancing makes it impossible for a meta to be diverse to the extent we want, we can at least make it more diverse than it would be anyways.
Also, the lists are up for debate because they aren't perfection. I bet almost everyone wants something to be different, just as in politics.
-
Pokemon Online also has usage stats for every metagame every month: http://stats.pokemon-online.eu/ORAS%20OU/index.html
There are also ranked stats, which only take into account players with >1000 rating: http://stats.pokemon-online.eu/ORAS%20OU/ranked_stats.txt
EDIT: Pokemon Global Link also has unquantified usage rankings for Battle Spot: http://3ds.pokemon-gl.com/battle/oras/
5 out of the top 12 Pokemon are banned from Smogon's OU metagame. Is this format really more varied than 6v6 singles?
Since you can't tell how often they are used, it's impossible to say if it's more or less varied. If you skip the 5 mons that are banned from OU, the other are still in the top of the used mons. So it's just like they banned a couple of monsters they didn't like and used the rest. Which has been my point the entire time. Also, no Thundorus or Klefki. So it can't be that bad to have Swagger allowed, right?
OU is more diverse than Anything Goes. Relatively, there is "that much variation". It's just that although GameFreak's bad job balancing makes it impossible for a meta to be diverse to the extent we want, we can at least make it more diverse than it would be anyways.
Also, the lists are up for debate because they aren't perfection. I bet almost everyone wants something to be different, just as in politics.
I don't know much about Anything Goes, but my point is that Smogon have this tier list that pretty much everyone have to follow. And of course everyone wants something different. It's just that as soon as you want something else than what "Smogon wants" this happens.
-
Again, there seems to be misunderstanding of the tiers. If you play OU, it's not like you can't use pokemon from lower tiers. They are only in the lower tiers because people don't use them as much. People gravitate towards the stronger picks. Without the tiers, there would be no environment where, for example, Magnemite is viable.
Smogon bans are for dominating strategies that crowd out everything else. It's not like they just picked 5 at random to ban and let the rest in without a second thought.
Honestly, it sounds like you just want a tier that sits between OU and Ubers, or for people to stop enjoying 6v6 singles.
-
In other news, I still only have 3 badges. I am spending an inordinate amount of time on Route 112 trying to find a good Numel.
Vigoroth is part of my regular team now. His name is Pumpernickel. Should I keep him as a Vigoroth, or let him evolve so his name is punny again?
-
Again, there seems to be misunderstanding of the tiers. If you play OU, it's not like you can't use pokemon from lower tiers. They are only in the lower tiers because people don't use them as much. People gravitate towards the stronger picks. Without the tiers, there would be no environment where, for example, Magnemite is viable.
Smogon bans are for dominating strategies that crowd out everything else. It's not like they just picked 5 at random to ban and let the rest in without a second thought.
Honestly, it sounds like you just want a tier that sits between OU and Ubers, or for people to stop enjoying 6v6 singles.
That is not at all what I want. I know you can use lower tier monsters in higher tiers. I used Qwilfish in Ubers with great success. But that's not my point. My point is this. There are "dominant monsters". They are bumped up to the next tier. By now there are new monsters that are the common picks. Why aren't they bumped up? I realize that you have to stop at some point. But at the same time, who decides where to stop? From what I understand there are a couple of guys who ultimately decides what's banned and what's not. There was recently a thing where Shadow Tag was banned from Ubers due to a "shady" vote count. I guess my main thing is that I don't agree with where they draw the lines. I think they are not very straight drawn.
I also don't want people to stop enjoying the Smogon tiers. I just don't want them forced upon me.
In other news, I still only have 3 badges. I am spending an inordinate amount of time on Route 112 trying to find a good Numel.
Vigoroth is part of my regular team now. His name is Pumpernickel. Should I keep him as a Vigoroth, or let him evolve so his name is punny again?
I still haven't beaten the Delta Episode yet. So much flying back and forth. It's boring.
-
Where the line is drawn is arbitrary by nature. If every team has to have a pokemon and/or a specific counter to that pokemon that isn't good for anything else, it needs to be banned. Maybe if it appears on 50% of all teams it should be banned. If 20% of all teams, maybe that's OK. Where would you draw the lines?
It's a community decision, as far as I'm aware.
Smogon isn't forced on anyone. You can always play BattleSpot or VGC.
-
I think I am putting too much faith in the random pugs I was playing in 3v3 Singles back in PBR on the Wii. If the official 3v3 singles metagame really is more centralized than Smogon's OU, that sucks. I saw plenty of variety online back in 4th gen, but maybe that's changed. Either way, this sort of crap is why I switched from Pokémon to Dominion: Pokémon promises variety, but Dominion actually delivers on that promise.
I found back in 4th gen (and I imagine this is still true) that there's way more variety in Doubles than in Singles. Mostly this is due to how many more niche strategies become viable. You can use a Seaking in Singles, but it's horribly outclassed. In Doubles, a Water-type with Lightning Rod may be exactly what your team needs. My best team in 4th-gen was Arcanine, Aerodactyl, Cherrim, Exeggutor, Hariyama, and Torkoal. Good times.
-
Wooo, got my Numel. So my team is now:
Banyan the Grovyle (Naive, somewhat vain, ♀)
Metang (Lonely, somewhat vain)
Paws the Linoone (Bold, highly curious, ♀ -- pickup and HM specialist)
Pumpernickel the Vigoroth (Brave, likes to thrash about, ♂)
Pompeii the Numel (Quiet, takes plenty of siestas, ♀)
Sixth spot is currently just random pokemon to level up (currently a zubat). I'm sure I'll start having more than 6 on regular roster soon though. I intend to include Altaria and Flygon in rotation as soon as I can.
-
So based on this conversation, I'm making the three fights in my Pokemon card game be 3v3 singles, 4v4 doubles, and 6v6 singles. I hoping that's diverse enough (triples are complicated)
-
(http://38.media.tumblr.com/401a9d801e61d8742ac503152df23218/tumblr_ng0vclCOmF1qlu9j7o1_500.gif)
(http://33.media.tumblr.com/6e3b4274f450682fb11aebdee296bd3e/tumblr_ng0vclCOmF1qlu9j7o2_500.gif)
(http://38.media.tumblr.com/19a4371d9ad31136e148cda70d2f9433/tumblr_ng0vclCOmF1qlu9j7o3_500.gif)
(http://31.media.tumblr.com/d9b34945de69b7eaf1ba7d3ae043e11a/tumblr_ng0vclCOmF1qlu9j7o4_500.gif)
(http://38.media.tumblr.com/e6569adad087ac4c4903625719fa680e/tumblr_ng0vclCOmF1qlu9j7o5_500.gif)
(http://33.media.tumblr.com/3f7535c43167a87a14ae481b348e152e/tumblr_ng0vclCOmF1qlu9j7o6_500.gif)
source (http://cheesyturtle.tumblr.com/post/104263537039/unorthodox-flyers-that-ive-used-throughout-the)
-
Wooo, got my Numel. So my team is now:
Banyan the Grovyle (Naive, somewhat vain, ♀)
Metang (Lonely, somewhat vain)
Paws the Linoone (Bold, highly curious, ♀ -- pickup and HM specialist)
Pumpernickel the Vigoroth (Brave, likes to thrash about, ♂)
Pompeii the Numel (Quiet, takes plenty of siestas, ♀)
Sixth spot is currently just random pokemon to level up (currently a zubat). I'm sure I'll start having more than 6 on regular roster soon though. I intend to include Altaria and Flygon in rotation as soon as I can.
The team now includes:
Vertigo the Vibrava (Naughty, likes to thash about, ♀)
Nimbus the Altaria (Rash, takes plenty of siestas, ♀)
Both were 3 star captures with the DexNav. Spent more time than I should have looking for them. DexNav outside of grass is horrible. Why can't they just stay still? My search level for Swablu is higher though, because I spent some time pumping it up with horde encounters. It's currently level 176.
Banyan and Pompeii have evolved. Pumpernickel is holding onto an Everstone for now. Paws is now full up on HMs, including Surf. Not sure if I'm going to add an actual water type to my team. Recently got the fifth badge and I've just been retracing all my steps looking for Surf spots before I move on to the next leg.
-
Not sure if I'm going to add an actual water type to my team.
Remember, this is Hoenn. You need Dive AND Waterfall.
-
Not sure if I'm going to add an actual water type to my team.
Remember, this is Hoenn. You need Dive AND Waterfall.
Well, to my main battling team. :P I'll have a water type HM slave for sure.
-
Final addition to the team:
Lumos the Lanturn (Hasty, alert to sounds, ♂)
Another 3 star capture. IIRC, it had low attack, mediocre defense, good special attack (20+) and perfect IVs for the other three. I really like Lanturn, probably because Water/Electric is such a cool typing. It also amuses me that Game Freak took inspiration from anglerfishes to make such a cute and cheery design when it would have been so much easier to go the monstrous route.
Metang and Vertigo have evolved. I decided to teach Fly to Nimbus for the sake of convenience, and Lumos has both Surf and Dive for the same reason. For a while, I was using a Sharpedo to travel; the speed sure was nice.
I've got my seventh badge now. Next stop is the Seafloor Cavern, but I'm going on a bunch of detours before then. I think I've hit most of the dive spots now. The routes with the one-way swift currents are really annoying. There is at least one little island with a hidden item that I can't figure out how to get to (there is only a single one-space-wide path to it, because it's otherwise surrounded by currents that push away from it). I'm probably going to give up on it for a while, maybe forever. Looking at Bulbapedia, I've already gotten the most important items (two TMs).
I'm wondering what the Seafloor Cavern was like before Team Magma got there. When possible, I like exploring areas before they are significant, mainly to see what kind of meaningless obstacle is there to prevent me from moving forward. But when I visited the Seafloor Cavern area earlier, I didn't realize I thought surfacing in the center would just put me in the middle of the ring of land seen on the surface, so I didn't bother. I didn't realize there was a cavern inside... in retrospect, that was really stupid.
Edit: actually, now that I'm checking the actual location again, I think I might have been here before, and there was just an NPC blocking the entrance.
-
Edit: actually, now that I'm checking the actual location again, I think I might have been here before, and there was just an NPC blocking the entrance.
I was wrong. The blocked entrance I had visited was the entrance to Sky Pillar. Just found it again while doing some more exploring post-Rain Badge.
-
Necro wars!
What do you guys think of the Sun/Moon reveals so far?
It appears that this would be a valid strategy against the Sun legendary:
(https://67.media.tumblr.com/523b2652f3a3391a2e7c8ccc2c337823/tumblr_inline_mqt364qDeD1qz4rgp.gif)
-
Yeah my first through upon seeing the Sun Legendary's typing was basically "That's the same as Bronzong. It's only weaknesses are Fire and Ground. So the Sun Legendary is only weak to heat and the Earth. Cool."
-
Yeah my first through upon seeing the Sun Legendary's typing was basically "That's the same as Bronzong. It's only weaknesses are Fire and Ground. So the Sun Legendary is only weak to heat and the Earth. Cool."
That's outdated info, luckily. It's also weak to Ghost and Dark, thanks to Steel losing those resistances.
-
Oh, yeah. Gen 6 type changes.
-
I used to play Pokemon Online all the time.
-
I'm still not sure of the reasoning behind the Steel-typing, but Psychic for both legendaries is cool. It's consistent with all the other Pokemon from space.
-
A few new Pokémon revealed at E3 today: the obligatory Route 1 bird, rodent, and bug Pokémon.
The rodent (Yungoos, a mongoose-type thing) has a neat new ability, Stakeout. Apparently it lets you deal double damage to a Pokémon switching in.
-
There was that Pokemon who cannot be affected by any status condition except sleep, which seems cool. Too bad it looks like a Bibarel type, as in completely sucky competitive-wise.
I kind of wish they'd scrap the route 1 bird thing. I want something different than Normal/Flying types when I first play.
-
There was that Pokemon who cannot be affected by any status condition except sleep, which seems cool. Too bad it looks like a Bibarel type, as in completely sucky competitive-wise.
Well you never know. I'm guessing that's not its final form.
I kind of wish they'd scrap the route 1 bird thing. I want something different than Normal/Flying types when I first play.
At least this one can have Skill Link, which is kinda cool. Fury Attack with 5 hits guaranteed!
-
I kind of wish they'd scrap the route 1 bird thing. I want something different than Normal/Flying types when I first play.
At least this one can have Skill Link, which is kinda cool. Fury Attack with 5 hits guaranteed!
And we don't know what type its final form will be! Talonflame was Fire/Flying, this might be something different too.
FWIW, dex data mentions shooting seeds so it probably learns Bullet Seed too. Maybe it'll be Grass/Flying. Might be unlikely with Rowlet, but not impossible, and there was a rumour that Rowlet's final form wouldn't be a Flying type.
-
I kind of wish they'd scrap the route 1 bird thing. I want something different than Normal/Flying types when I first play.
At least this one can have Skill Link, which is kinda cool. Fury Attack with 5 hits guaranteed!
Pikipek's flavor text also strongly implies it can learn Bullet Seed, so assuming its final evolution retains Skill Link (I certainly hope so), it should have at least one thing to set it apart from other Route-1 birds (namely a 125-BP, physical Grass attack).
-
Reminds me of the Mega-Herracross (Skill Link) with Arm Thrust, Pin Needle, and Bullet Seed I ran. What I would do is have a Speed Boost Jolteon Baton Pass to the Heracross, and it would sweep teams, and since Skill Link, it busted through Pokemon with the focus sash. It was quite cruel. :)
-
Reminds me of the Mega-Herracross (Skill Link) with Arm Thrust, Pin Needle, and Bullet Seed I ran. What I would do is have a Speed Boost Jolteon Baton Pass to the Heracross, and it would sweep teams, and since Skill Link, it busted through Pokemon with the focus sash. It was quite cruel. :)
I'd be torn between Arm Thrust and Close Combat there. I mean yes Arm Thrust can break Sturdy and Focus Sash, but Close Combat just packs so much more power, especially on a sweeper like that. Did you ever wish you'd gone the other route? Or did you have both, instead of Rock Blast?
-
Reminds me of the Mega-Herracross (Skill Link) with Arm Thrust, Pin Needle, and Bullet Seed I ran. What I would do is have a Speed Boost Jolteon Baton Pass to the Heracross, and it would sweep teams, and since Skill Link, it busted through Pokemon with the focus sash. It was quite cruel. :)
I'd be torn between Arm Thrust and Close Combat there. I mean yes Arm Thrust can break Sturdy and Focus Sash, but Close Combat just packs so much more power, especially on a sweeper like that. Did you ever wish you'd gone the other route? Or did you have both, instead of Rock Blast?
Oh yeah, I also had Rock Blast. I think I ran Close Combat over Arm Thrust too. I don't remember, it was awhile ago. This was on Pokemon Online, so it wasn't a real Pokemon or anything.
-
What do you guys think of all the new reveals from today? I'm really excited for the Alola forms. Exeggutor is ridiculous, Ninetales is gorgeous, and Sandslash doesn't look too shabby either. Their new types are interesting too.
Z-moves look totally over the top. The Rowlet in the trailer is surely dead now.
I really like Minior. Very curious if its colour is more than aesthetic, and how many different colours are available.
-
What do you guys think of all the new reveals from today? I'm really excited for the Alola forms.
Man, I am hyped.
Sandslash finally gets something, even if it has two double weaknesses (to Fire and Fighting). It wasn't the mega evolution I wished for, but I'm optimistic. Although now my favorite Pokémon no longer has my favorite type. I'm not sure how to feel. Here's hoping Snowslash gets a significant stat boost over Sandslash. It really needs it.
Ninetales looks cool. I wonder if it has Snow Warning as its Hidden Ability.
I've just gotta train an Alolan Exeggutor. Leaf Swarm and (presumably) Draco Meteor with Power Swap. Plus it gets Frisk, one of my favorite Abilities for Doubles.
There are rumors (pre-dating today's reveal) about many more Alolan Pokémon. That "leak" got Ninetales' new type wrong (Fire/Fairy instead of Ice/Fairy) and didn't mention Sandslash or Exeggutor, so perhaps it's bogus. But that same leak was spot-on about many other things, so we'll see. I hope it's right about a Bug/Psychic Butterfree.
The Fire-type-using "captain" has a Marowak, so folks are speculating about a Fire-type Marowak, perhaps with a torch-juggling theme.
I am wondering if there will be any new Mega Evolutions at all, or just new Forms. I certainly hope that at least the existing Mega Evolutions are in 7th gen. Possibly you will be limited to one Mega Evolution OR one Z-Move.
-
I love the Alola forms - I'm somewhat disappointed the sandshrew doesn't keep its ground type at least as a secondary type, but they all look amazing.
I dislike Z-moves for the same reason I dislike Mega-evolutions, but I can't really explain why. Just not my style.
The dancing bird is cool, as is the donkey pokemon - I hope they'll be good.
-
Is "Snowslash" already common? I've been calling it that with friends. Also Icetails, but I feel like we could do better.
Is the leak the one with the starter evo sketches that include one of the captains? Because man, I do not like that Litten evolution design.
The donkey probably won't be so good since it evolves.
-
Yeah, that's the leak. At least the final Litten evolution will supposedly be fire/dark, not fire/fighting, but still, the art isn't that exciting to me, at least compared to what it could have been.
The archer Rowlet evolution looks really cool though.
-
I love the Alola forms - I'm somewhat disappointed the sandshrew doesn't keep its ground type at least as a secondary type, but they all look amazing.
I dislike Z-moves for the same reason I dislike Mega-evolutions, but I can't really explain why. Just not my style.
The dancing bird is cool, as is the donkey pokemon - I hope they'll be good.
I love Mega-Evolutions for the same reason I love the Alolan forms: they give new life to old Pokémon, usually in an awesome new way. Z-Moves I'm not excited about. I'm hoping that you can use either one Mega Evolution or one Z-Move per battle.
Is "Snowslash" already common? I've been calling it that with friends. Also Icetails, but I feel like we could do better.
It's somewhat common. I'm guessing the competitive community will land on "Sandslash-A", "Ninetales-A", etc.
Is the leak the one with the starter evo sketches that include one of the captains? Because man, I do not like that Litten evolution design.
I don't think that's the same leak, though the leak you mention is almost guaranteed to be real. I also don't love Litten's final form, but I'm not really upset; I was going to choose Rowlet anyway, and Rowlet's final form looks amazing.
-
Apparently on Smogon, "wishlisting" is prohibited. So here, on this non-fascist website, is my wishlist for 1st-gen Pokémon that I hope get Alolan forms.
Butterfree
Raticate
*Fearow (has lived far too long in the shadow of e.g. Staraptor)
Arbok (to differentiate it from Seviper)
Nidqueen and Nidoking (ideally to differentiate them further from each other)
Parasect
Persian
*Primeape
Golem (or a Mega Evolution, I'm not picky)
Farfetch'd (a Mega Evolution couldn't hold a Stick)
Dodrio (see Fearow)
Dewgong (to differentiate it from Walrein)
Hypno (needs a good niche, preferably a cool new Ability that ties into Hypnosis)
Kingler (maybe just adding another type to make it more special)
Jynx
* Fearow and Primeape’s normal forms have been shown in trailers, so it’s unlikely they have Alolan forms.
-
While there aren't any codified rules here, I think posting the exact same thing 4 times in a row is still frowned upon.
-
While there aren't any codified rules here, I think posting the exact same thing 4 times in a row is still frowned upon.
Yes, that was a strange artifact of forum downtime and browser caching, I believe. Fixed.
-
LF broke f.DS! His attempts to erase history won't erase his crime!
-
While there aren't any codified rules here, I think posting the exact same thing 4 times in a row is still frowned upon.
Yes, that was a strange artifact of forum downtime and browser caching, I believe. Fixed.
Those Smogon fascists would give you one warning per duplicate post :P
-
While there aren't any codified rules here, I think posting the exact same thing 4 times in a row is still frowned upon.
Yes, that was a strange artifact of forum downtime and browser caching, I believe. Fixed.
Those Smogon fascists would give you one warning per duplicate post :P
Your emoji indicates a joke, but that sounds 100% accurate.
-
While there aren't any codified rules here, I think posting the exact same thing 4 times in a row is still frowned upon.
Yes, that was a strange artifact of forum downtime and browser caching, I believe. Fixed.
Those Smogon fascists would give you one warning per duplicate post :P
Your emoji indicates a joke, but that sounds 100% accurate.
In my Smogon heyday, I racked up 25 infractions. Granted, I was like, 14-16 years old and a general pedantic asshole piece of shit back then, but a third of those ended up being overturned anyway. It really was a very moderation heavy place, with lots of subjectivity and double standards where members with badges would be less prone to warnings. Not sure what it's like these days.
-
Apparently on Smogon, "wishlisting" is prohibited. So here, on this non-fascist website, is my wishlist for 1st-gen Pokémon that I hope get Alolan forms.
Butterfree
Raticate
Fearow and Dodrio (they've lived far too long in the shadow of e.g. Staraptor)
Arbok (to differentiate it from Seviper)
Nidqueen and Nidoking (ideally to differentiate them further from each other)
Parasect
Persian
Primeape
Golem (or a Mega Evolution, I'm not picky)
Farfetch'd (a Mega Evolution couldn't hold a Stick)
Dewgong (to differentiate it from Walrein)
Hypno (needs a good niche, preferably a cool new Ability that ties into Hypnosis)
Kingler (maybe just adding another type to make it more special)
Jynx
Do you think they'll restrict Alolan forms to first gen only? As their mascot, do you think Pikachu is more likely to get an Alolan form, or less? I'd kind of like an Alolan Victreebel. The Oddish line got Bellossom as a special thing, but the Bellsprout line is kind of generic, even though it's one of my favourite Kanto lines.
I've seen some neat fan ideas for Alolan forms. A volcanic island Lapras was one of my favourites. A hula Jynx concept was also very interesting.
-
Apparently on Smogon, "wishlisting" is prohibited. So here, on this non-fascist website, is my wishlist for 1st-gen Pokémon that I hope get Alolan forms.
Butterfree
Raticate
Fearow and Dodrio (they've lived far too long in the shadow of e.g. Staraptor)
Arbok (to differentiate it from Seviper)
Nidqueen and Nidoking (ideally to differentiate them further from each other)
Parasect
Persian
Primeape
Golem (or a Mega Evolution, I'm not picky)
Farfetch'd (a Mega Evolution couldn't hold a Stick)
Dewgong (to differentiate it from Walrein)
Hypno (needs a good niche, preferably a cool new Ability that ties into Hypnosis)
Kingler (maybe just adding another type to make it more special)
Jynx
Do you think they'll restrict Alolan forms to first gen only? As their mascot, do you think Pikachu is more likely to get an Alolan form, or less? I'd kind of like an Alolan Victreebel. The Oddish line got Bellossom as a special thing, but the Bellsprout line is kind of generic, even though it's one of my favourite Kanto lines.
I've seen some neat fan ideas for Alolan forms. A volcanic island Lapras was one of my favourites. A hula Jynx concept was also very interesting.
I'm not sure whether they'll be first-gen only. I mean probably not, but there's reasons to go either way.
I've just updated my "wishlist" post with the latest version (I was deleting carelessly after I realized I had posted four times). As I've noted, Fearow and Primeape's normal forms have been shown in trailers for Sun and Moon, so chances are good they won't get Alolan forms. The same applies to Lapras, unfortunately.
-
Alolan Meowth (Dark) and Alolan Marowak (Fire/Ghost) confirmed.
I hope Alolan Persian has an additional type. We already have a Dark-type Persian in the game; it's called Liepard.
-
(https://66.media.tumblr.com/9dce1ebef1aefc6663e094f1ba8f2c88/tumblr_obgplpXTe61r5m6zuo1_r1_540.gif)
-
It's growing on me, actually.
BTW, how do alolan forms relate to their original forms? They are basically completely new pokemons, from a practical point of view, no?
-
It's growing on me, actually.
BTW, how do alolan forms relate to their original forms? They are basically completely new pokemons, from a practical point of view, no?
It seems that way. There was a 2013 interview shortly after XY released where Ken Sugimori mentioned that there were getting to be too many Pokemon to remember them all, do having regional forms may be their solution. It's like a new Pokemon, but the familiarity makes it easier to track.
-
As their mascot, do you think Pikachu is more likely to get an Alolan form, or less?
New leaks suggest that the answer was "more likely".
-
As their mascot, do you think Pikachu is more likely to get an Alolan form, or less?
New leaks suggest that the answer was "more likely".
I disagree. Regular Pikachu has been shown in trailers. Alolan Raichu does look cool, though.
-
As their mascot, do you think Pikachu is more likely to get an Alolan form, or less?
New leaks suggest that the answer was "more likely".
I disagree. Regular Pikachu has been shown in trailers. Alolan Raichu does look cool, though.
You don't think there will be Alolan Pikachu and Pichu to match? I guess that's possible, but I think Alolan Pikachu is still more likely with the existence of Alolan Raichu. It's possible that Pikachu will be special in having both Alolan and regular forms in Alola, or maybe the regular Pikachu is earlier trailers was a red herring or an accident or something.
-
You don't think there will be Alolan Pikachu and Pichu to match? I guess that's possible, but I think Alolan Pikachu is still more likely with the existence of Alolan Raichu. It's possible that Pikachu will be special in having both Alolan and regular forms in Alola, or maybe the regular Pikachu is earlier trailers was a red herring or an accident or something.
It's not just earlier trailers. The latest trailer (not counting the one that's leaking now) makes prominent use of Pikachu (for demonstrating Z-Moves).
I will bet you one deluxe fully trained non-legendary Pokémon that Pikachu will not have an Alola Form. It might get an additional cosplay outfit or something of that nature, but not an actual Alola Form. I mean Exeggcute doesn't have one, so it's not unprecedented that only part of an evolutionary line gets one. And I really can't imagine them wanting to mess with the look of their mascot.
I take back what I said earlier about Dark-type Persian being too close to Liepard. STAB Technician Bite is nifty, especially if Alolan Persian has a higher Attack than Persian Prime.
Fire/Ghost Marowak can still have Lightning Rod! That's pretty cool. Cursed Body is also a fun ability.
-
You don't think there will be Alolan Pikachu and Pichu to match? I guess that's possible, but I think Alolan Pikachu is still more likely with the existence of Alolan Raichu. It's possible that Pikachu will be special in having both Alolan and regular forms in Alola, or maybe the regular Pikachu is earlier trailers was a red herring or an accident or something.
It's not just earlier trailers. The latest trailer (not counting the one that's leaking now) makes prominent use of Pikachu (for demonstrating Z-Moves).
I will bet you one deluxe fully trained non-legendary Pokémon that Pikachu will not have an Alola Form. It might get an additional cosplay outfit or something of that nature, but not an actual Alola Form. I mean Exeggcute doesn't have one, so it's not unprecedented that only part of an evolutionary line gets one. And I really can't imagine them wanting to mess with the look of their mascot.
I take back what I said earlier about Dark-type Persian being too close to Liepard. STAB Technician Bite is nifty, especially if Alolan Persian has a higher Attack than Persian Prime.
Fire/Ghost Marowak can still have Lightning Rod! That's pretty cool. Cursed Body is also a fun ability.
I'm not taking that bet, but I don't think it's clear one way or the other. Basic Pikachu could still have been a red herring. Is it confirmed that Exeggcute won't have an Alolan form? It might just not be revealed yet. As I said earlier, I don't know whether the mascot status makes an Alolan Pikachu more or less likely. I could see it going either way. With Alolan Raichu being a thing, I think it's more likely now than it was before.
-
Basic Pikachu could still have been a red herring. Is it confirmed that Exeggcute won't have an Alolan form? It might just not be revealed yet. As I said earlier, I don't know whether the mascot status makes an Alolan Pikachu more or less likely. I could see it going either way. With Alolan Raichu being a thing, I think it's more likely now than it was before.
The Japanese trailers show (or rather very strongly imply) that regular Exeggcute evolves into Alolan Exeggutor, regular Cubone evolves into Alolan Marowak, and regular Pikachu evolves into Alolan Raichu. That doesn't totally preclude Alola Forms for those unevolved Pokémon, but it makes extremely unlikely.
On a related note, now I'm worried that Persian won't have an Alolan Form. Why wouldn't they have shown it along with Meowth?
-
While I'm wishlisting, here are the things Pokémon needs to do in order to win back my heart.
• Turn order should be recalculated mid-turn as needed. At minimum, turn order should be recalculated after mega evolution changes Pokémons' Speed stats and Abilities. Mega Beedrill and Mega Banette shouldn't have to run Protect in order to make sure they live through the first turn.
• Weather-changing Abilities (Drizzle, Drought, Sand Stream, Snow Warning) should last 2 turns instead of 5. Maybe 3 turns. It's just such an enormous boost, especially in Doubles. Like, there's absolutely no reason to ever use weather-changing moves over these abilities, and that really limits which Pokémon you can use on a weather-based team.
• There should be an Ability Tutor, which can teach your Pokémon any Ability it could have, including Hidden Abilities. Barring this, there should be fairly easy access to every Pokémon's Hidden Ability.
-
2 turn weather would be competitively entirely useless in Singles. I think 5/8 turn is a reasonable compromise. Sure you can't use literally anything as a weather setter.
Agreed that changing ability should be easy.
-
2 turn weather would be competitively entirely useless in Singles. I think 5/8 turn is a reasonable compromise.
How about if it depended on the format? 3 turns in Singles, 2 in Doubles? 4 turns in Singles, 2 in Doubles? 5 turns in Doubles is madness. It's…roughly equivalent to 15 to 20 turns in Singles? Admittedly it's better than the infinite duration it used to have.
EDIT: I should note that I don't really care about Singles at all. It's such a boring format compared to Doubles.
Sure you can't use literally anything as a weather setter.
Assuming a format where Groudon and Kyogre are banned, you have two available weather-setters for each weather type. Except rain, which only has Politoed. And using Charizard-Y for sun takes up your Mega slot.
If the weather-setting Abilities were more widespread (possibly through tutoring?), that might also be an acceptable solution.
-
5 turn Weather is already pretty awful. I mean, it's fine in Doubles, but most people don't play that format.
-
5 turn Weather is already pretty awful. I mean, it's fine in Doubles, but most people don't play that format.
Data please.
-
5 turn Weather is already pretty awful. I mean, it's fine in Doubles, but most people don't play that format.
Data please.
I can't back up the claim most people "don't play it" but looking at the online simulator data from last month (found here (http://www.smogon.com/stats/)) there were over 10 times as many games in standard OU as doubles OU (2,654K (http://www.smogon.com/stats/2016-07/ou-0.txt) vs. 236K (http://www.smogon.com/stats/2016-07/doublesou-0.txt)).
This obviously is just using the online simulator, but that's about as good as you're gonna get, especially seeing as that's how most people who want to play competitively, play. It's also only using one format, OU and doubles OU, but eh, go ahead and scrape the rest of the data if you want a more complete comparison. I still expect well over 80%, probably still over 90% of games will be singles.
-
Note that Singles OU is not the format for official tournaments.
-
Note that Singles OU is not the format for official tournaments.
And? Official tournament rules are kinda bad in pokemon. There's a reason the community uses its own rulesets.
-
Note that Singles OU is not the format for official tournaments.
And? Official tournament rules are kinda bad in pokemon. There's a reason the community uses its own rulesets.
Smogon's rules are awful. They're more geared toward maintaining their status quo than toward making a fun game.
-
6v6 Singles is thought to be the coolest of the formats - see for example how Ash vs Gary, Ash vs Paul, Ash vs Alain, are all 6v6 singles.
Personally I agree, though I don't have anything against people preferring doubles. I find switching to be one of the main strategic draws of Pokemon, and you get much less of that in doubles.
Edit: LastFootnote, what's wrong with OU? It seems to be much more healthy than VGC doubles, for which tons and tons of teams had just the same 5 pokemon + 1.
-
Note that Singles OU is not the format for official tournaments.
And? Official tournament rules are kinda bad in pokemon. There's a reason the community uses its own rulesets.
Smogon's rules are awful. They're more geared toward maintaining their status quo than toward making a fun game.
I have plenty of problems with the tiering process on Smogon, but they tend to result in pretty respectable metagames that end up more balanced than official tournaments. I think generally they are a little quick to ban, though.
Gen 6 UU turned into a pretty cool metagame I think?
-
Note that Singles OU is not the format for official tournaments.
And? Official tournament rules are kinda bad in pokemon. There's a reason the community uses its own rulesets.
Smogon's rules are awful. They're more geared toward maintaining their status quo than toward making a fun game.
I get that feeling too, but their rules are better than no rules. Then we'd see teams of six Dragonites or Mega Rayquaza. Like, seriously. What idiot in Game Freak thought it was a good idea to make Mega Rayquaza? It's so OP that it transcends Ubers!
-
6v6 Singles is thought to be the coolest of the formats - see for example how Ash vs Gary, Ash vs Paul, Ash vs Alain, are all 6v6 singles.
Personally I agree, though I don't have anything against people preferring doubles. I find switching to be one of the main strategic draws of Pokemon, and you get much less of that in doubles.
Edit: LastFootnote, what's wrong with OU? It seems to be much more healthy than VGC doubles, for which tons and tons of teams had just the same 5 pokemon + 1.
Oh, agreed. VGC 2016 is a ridiculous format. Back when I played in high school (3rd gen), we settled on a banlist of all legends and pseudo-legends (Dragonite, Tyranitar, Salamence, Metagross). Maybe these days I'd be fine with the Battle Spot banlist? But allowing Mewtwo, Kyogre, etc., is just ridiculous.
-
To be clear, I like doubles a lot too - when I go on pokemonshowdown for a randomized game, I always prefer doubles or triples to random singles.
(and you've talked before about how entry hazards are balanced badly for 6v6 singles, and I agree)
I guess it just seems less random to me for some reason, and the games go on longer, which is nice for competitive play.
-
To be clear, I like doubles a lot too - when I go on pokemonshowdown for a randomized game, I always prefer doubles or triples to random singles.
(and you've talked before about how entry hazards are balanced badly for 6v6 singles, and I agree)
I guess it just seems less random to me for some reason, and the games go on longer, which is nice for competitive play.
Well, Smogon's 6v6 OU Singles ruleset is all about trying to make Pokémon into something it was never meant to be. Pokémon has a lot of luck intrinsic to it, and Smogon tries to remove as much of that luck as they think they can get away with. But really they'd be better off just playing a game with less luck. Or at least I'd be better off if they played a game with less luck and left Pokémon alone.
I guess what I'm saying is: it's nice that Smogonites are able to play their 6v6 Singles, but it's a shame that that format has become the de facto standard for "serious" players. It's GameFreak's fault for not providing a good format sooner, but it's too late now.
-
Note that Singles OU is not the format for official tournaments.
And? Official tournament rules are kinda bad in pokemon. There's a reason the community uses its own rulesets.
While I agree that the official rules are bad. It makes no sense for Gamfreak to balance the game for a format they are not using.
-
Note that Singles OU is not the format for official tournaments.
And? Official tournament rules are kinda bad in pokemon. There's a reason the community uses its own rulesets.
Smogon's rules are awful. They're more geared toward maintaining their status quo than toward making a fun game.
I get that feeling too, but their rules are better than no rules. Then we'd see teams of six Dragonites or Mega Rayquaza. Like, seriously. What idiot in Game Freak thought it was a good idea to make Mega Rayquaza? It's so OP that it transcends Ubers!
Don't even get me started on the concept of transcending Ubers. It's completely illogical to me.
Ubers is a ban tier to fix OU, which is supposed to be the most permissive balanced metagame possible. For a few gens, Ubers happened to be somewhat playable. Now Pokemon can be banned from Ubers in an attempt to balance Ubers... But if Ubers can be balanced, why isn't Ubers now OU? It's ridiculous. They either needed to stop treating Ubers like a competitive tier, or they needed to make Ubers the default tier. You can't do both.
-
Ubers is a ban tier to fix OU, which is supposed to be the most permissive balanced metagame possible. For a few gens, Ubers happened to be somewhat playable. Now Pokemon can be banned from Ubers in an attempt to balance Ubers... But if Ubers can be balanced, why isn't Ubers now OU? It's ridiculous. They either needed to stop treating Ubers like a competitive tier, or they needed to make Ubers the default tier. You can't do both.
Why not? I'm no competitive pokemon expert, but Ubers was originally just a banlist. It's since become a format of its own, but is still very different to other formats; from what I understand it's far more offensively oriented, and the viable list of pokemon in it is relatively small. Just looking at the data from July (using the highest ranked players data) it looks like ~38 pokemon were used on at least 3.45% of teams which IIRC is considered the benchmark for reasonably used pokemon, compared to ~51 in OU. So about 3/4 as many pokemon. And looking at the top of that list, man, there's a few pokemon with ridiculous numbers. In OU Landorus-T has a usage of 32% which seems really high, but Ubers has four pokemon higher (or barely lower) than that. It's not really all that balanced of a metagame, basically - you see the same pokemon pretty often, but presumably at least there are ways to counter those pokemon without using the same ones yourself. Still though, the point remains: They had a way to make the tier reasonably balanced for battling, so that's what it gets used for. The normal rules still apply in the tier. And if most people don't want a tier that's quite so centralised and small, which makes sense, it seems reasonable for the next tier down, OU, to be the standard tier.
As for why Mega Rayquaza got banned, I can't say. Presumably it was too ridiculous for even Ubers. It is still allowed in AG.
I'm not saying I think Smogon is perfect - I feel like they care a bit too much about tradition and avoiding making significant changes to things, and as a result you have rather stupid tier names for the main standard formats, as well as a huge mess of tiers with stuff like all the borderline tiers. I don't really feel like bans happen too quickly, I've seen the process they go through and it's pretty significant. They're regularly ending up with 1000+ posts of discussion and thousands of games of testing in data before doing anything, possibly more.