Dominion Strategy Forum
Archive => Archive => Dominion: Dark Ages Previews => Topic started by: werothegreat on September 09, 2012, 05:27:26 pm
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So, I was playing Dark Ages with Robz and Axe Knight over the weekend, and we tested out a few of the kingdoms. We did a lot with Knights. I sort of monopolized them, but because I was focusing on those, and Robz was just buying Silver and Gold, he still managed to pull a win, despite my incessant trashing.
Also, Graverobbing Pillages is a lot of fun, especially when you never actually bought a Pillage. Also a good way to recover your Knights when they trash each other.
Cultist is a beast. It can work so fast because of the chaining, and Ruins just slow your deck down to absolutely nothing.
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So, I was playing Dark Ages with Robz and Axe Knight over the weekend, and we tested out a few of the kingdoms. We did a lot with Knights. I sort of monopolized them, but because I was focusing on those, and Robz was just buying Silver and Gold, he still managed to pull a win, despite my incessant trashing.
Also, Graverobbing Pillages is a lot of fun, especially when you never actually bought a Pillage. Also a good way to recover your Knights when they trash each other.
Cultist is a beast. It can work so fast because of the chaining, and Ruins just slow your deck down to absolutely nothing.
I personally find ruins to be a bit of a double-edged sword. Since they're not completely useless like curses (though they are pretty close), they can be worked around. Have you ever tried sacrificing cultists on the altars? That can be pretty rad, too.
Fortunately or unfortunately, depending on how you view it, forced trashing is no longer as frustrating to me as it used to be. There is no longer an absolute guarantee that trashing a card means it's gone permanently, so even forced trashing can be worked around with the proper foresight.
I think at this point my single-favorite card from DA is feodum, though that is most certainly subject to change the more I play.
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Cultist on a Procession is much more awesome.
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Cultist on a Procession is much more awesome.
I can see where it would be, but I have yet to pull it off. I'll have to be on the lookout for that one. I kind of like the whole cultist/altar theme for its thematics moreso than the actual gameplay effects.
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I haven't loved knights yet I normally ignore them.
Also played a board with IGG and Cultist. This was a fascniating board to me so we played it a few times the winner was always the person who bought 3 cultists BEFORE IGG's and then hammered IGG's
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Re: Cultist
One game I tried I used Procession on Fortress repeatedly (just for utility) but took a Cultist as the upgrade. As I started processioning them too the Cultists just took off and the game swung completely, with all the ruins disappearing in about 2 turns. So yeah, Cultists can be ace, and I think the synergy with procession is particularly notable when the ruins are running low : the on-trash effect is so good and probably won't need the cultist anymore. Very nice. The other player was in the lead, having opened with Dame Anna (trashing knight) which was awesome and just taking off from there, but with a slim deck the ruins dump just crippled them and it was over for them.
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Cultist's on-trash ability, coupled with it's attack, make it invaluable and one of my favorite cards in all of Dominion. Plus, I've read Call of Cthulu.
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One of the sets we played was one of the recommended Dark Ages/Hinterlands set. It was the one with Tunnel. Well, it's a really good board for Tunnel. Storeroom and Catacombs are terrific Tunnel boosters. I won with some ridiculous number of Golds.
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One of the sets we played was one of the recommended Dark Ages/Hinterlands set. It was the one with Tunnel. Well, it's a really good board for Tunnel. Storeroom and Catacombs are terrific Tunnel boosters. I won with some ridiculous number of Golds.
Hey more info time! Did anyone else go Altar/Highway on that board? In the few games of that board I played I was always able to beat Tunnel+Storeroom with Altar/Highway
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One of the sets we played was one of the recommended Dark Ages/Hinterlands set. It was the one with Tunnel. Well, it's a really good board for Tunnel. Storeroom and Catacombs are terrific Tunnel boosters. I won with some ridiculous number of Golds.
Hey more info time! Did anyone else go Altar/Highway on that board? In the few games of that board I played I was always able to beat Tunnel+Storeroom with Altar/Highway
Both of my opponents tried for that in vain. However, they sort of took too long coming around to it. (And the fact that there were 2 of them to split the Highways probably didn't help).
Played optimally between 2 people, the Altar/Highway route MIGHT be better, but I'm not so sure. The Tunnel strategy has a lot of things going for it. Storeroom may just be the cheapest/best Tunnel enabler yet (it's a Cellar AND a Secret Chamber!), and Catacombs, oh, and Crossroads is present, furthering advantaging a Tunnel strategy.
It should be further noted that I had a 5/2 start, whereas they both had 3/4. I'm not sure who's plan is better served by such and such openings. I opened Catacombs/Crossroads and then got the Tunnels. If I had 3/4 it probably would have been Tunnel/Storeroom.
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One of the sets we played was one of the recommended Dark Ages/Hinterlands set. It was the one with Tunnel. Well, it's a really good board for Tunnel. Storeroom and Catacombs are terrific Tunnel boosters. I won with some ridiculous number of Golds.
Hey more info time! Did anyone else go Altar/Highway on that board? In the few games of that board I played I was always able to beat Tunnel+Storeroom with Altar/Highway
Both of my opponents tried for that in vain. However, they sort of took too long coming around to it. (And the fact that there were 2 of them to split the Highways probably didn't help).
Played optimally between 2 people, the Altar/Highway route MIGHT be better, but I'm not so sure. The Tunnel strategy has a lot of things going for it. Storeroom may just be the cheapest/best Tunnel enabler yet (it's a Cellar AND a Secret Chamber!), and Catacombs, oh, and Crossroads is present, furthering advantaging a Tunnel strategy.
It should be further noted that I had a 5/2 start, whereas they both had 3/4. I'm not sure who's plan is better served by such and such openings. I opened Catacombs/Crossroads and then got the Tunnels. If I had 3/4 it probably would have been Tunnel/Storeroom.
It is true that 2 people going for highways is going to make it a bit weaker but you only need 3. That said with 12 provinces available its going to slam the highway altar deck super quick if you need to get more than 4 or 5 green cards. I also always take a crossroads so that I can double/triple altar, and I think there was another trasher on that board? Did they end up grabbing any crossroads? More than 1 altar? any other source of trash?
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One of the sets we played was one of the recommended Dark Ages/Hinterlands set. It was the one with Tunnel. Well, it's a really good board for Tunnel. Storeroom and Catacombs are terrific Tunnel boosters. I won with some ridiculous number of Golds.
Hey more info time! Did anyone else go Altar/Highway on that board? In the few games of that board I played I was always able to beat Tunnel+Storeroom with Altar/Highway
Both of my opponents tried for that in vain. However, they sort of took too long coming around to it. (And the fact that there were 2 of them to split the Highways probably didn't help).
Played optimally between 2 people, the Altar/Highway route MIGHT be better, but I'm not so sure. The Tunnel strategy has a lot of things going for it. Storeroom may just be the cheapest/best Tunnel enabler yet (it's a Cellar AND a Secret Chamber!), and Catacombs, oh, and Crossroads is present, furthering advantaging a Tunnel strategy.
It should be further noted that I had a 5/2 start, whereas they both had 3/4. I'm not sure who's plan is better served by such and such openings. I opened Catacombs/Crossroads and then got the Tunnels. If I had 3/4 it probably would have been Tunnel/Storeroom.
It is true that 2 people going for highways is going to make it a bit weaker but you only need 3. That said with 12 provinces available its going to slam the highway altar deck super quick if you need to get more than 4 or 5 green cards. I also always take a crossroads so that I can double/triple altar, and I think there was another trasher on that board? Did they end up grabbing any crossroads? More than 1 altar? any other source of trash?
I don't quite remember... maybe Wero does? They did NOT have multiple Altars. I THINK the other trasher might have been Spice Merchant. Actually, I think SM maybe helps the opening for the Tunnel plan too, but like I said, I had 5/2.
They did have Crossroads. I think they both started out attempting the Tunnel plan, but they never got the Catacombs and mine just took off quicker. I had several Storerooms and at least 2 Catacombs.
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One of the sets we played was one of the recommended Dark Ages/Hinterlands set. It was the one with Tunnel. Well, it's a really good board for Tunnel. Storeroom and Catacombs are terrific Tunnel boosters. I won with some ridiculous number of Golds.
Hey more info time! Did anyone else go Altar/Highway on that board? In the few games of that board I played I was always able to beat Tunnel+Storeroom with Altar/Highway
Both of my opponents tried for that in vain. However, they sort of took too long coming around to it. (And the fact that there were 2 of them to split the Highways probably didn't help).
Played optimally between 2 people, the Altar/Highway route MIGHT be better, but I'm not so sure. The Tunnel strategy has a lot of things going for it. Storeroom may just be the cheapest/best Tunnel enabler yet (it's a Cellar AND a Secret Chamber!), and Catacombs, oh, and Crossroads is present, furthering advantaging a Tunnel strategy.
It should be further noted that I had a 5/2 start, whereas they both had 3/4. I'm not sure who's plan is better served by such and such openings. I opened Catacombs/Crossroads and then got the Tunnels. If I had 3/4 it probably would have been Tunnel/Storeroom.
I love how you remember exactly what our openings were. I barely even remember I was going for Altar.
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One of the sets we played was one of the recommended Dark Ages/Hinterlands set. It was the one with Tunnel. Well, it's a really good board for Tunnel. Storeroom and Catacombs are terrific Tunnel boosters. I won with some ridiculous number of Golds.
Hey more info time! Did anyone else go Altar/Highway on that board? In the few games of that board I played I was always able to beat Tunnel+Storeroom with Altar/Highway
Both of my opponents tried for that in vain. However, they sort of took too long coming around to it. (And the fact that there were 2 of them to split the Highways probably didn't help).
Played optimally between 2 people, the Altar/Highway route MIGHT be better, but I'm not so sure. The Tunnel strategy has a lot of things going for it. Storeroom may just be the cheapest/best Tunnel enabler yet (it's a Cellar AND a Secret Chamber!), and Catacombs, oh, and Crossroads is present, furthering advantaging a Tunnel strategy.
It should be further noted that I had a 5/2 start, whereas they both had 3/4. I'm not sure who's plan is better served by such and such openings. I opened Catacombs/Crossroads and then got the Tunnels. If I had 3/4 it probably would have been Tunnel/Storeroom.
I love how you remember exactly what our openings were. I barely even remember I was going for Altar.
I tend to remember these things! :)
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One of the sets we played was one of the recommended Dark Ages/Hinterlands set. It was the one with Tunnel. Well, it's a really good board for Tunnel. Storeroom and Catacombs are terrific Tunnel boosters. I won with some ridiculous number of Golds.
Hey more info time! Did anyone else go Altar/Highway on that board? In the few games of that board I played I was always able to beat Tunnel+Storeroom with Altar/Highway
Both of my opponents tried for that in vain. However, they sort of took too long coming around to it. (And the fact that there were 2 of them to split the Highways probably didn't help).
Played optimally between 2 people, the Altar/Highway route MIGHT be better, but I'm not so sure. The Tunnel strategy has a lot of things going for it. Storeroom may just be the cheapest/best Tunnel enabler yet (it's a Cellar AND a Secret Chamber!), and Catacombs, oh, and Crossroads is present, furthering advantaging a Tunnel strategy.
It should be further noted that I had a 5/2 start, whereas they both had 3/4. I'm not sure who's plan is better served by such and such openings. I opened Catacombs/Crossroads and then got the Tunnels. If I had 3/4 it probably would have been Tunnel/Storeroom.
It is true that 2 people going for highways is going to make it a bit weaker but you only need 3. That said with 12 provinces available its going to slam the highway altar deck super quick if you need to get more than 4 or 5 green cards. I also always take a crossroads so that I can double/triple altar, and I think there was another trasher on that board? Did they end up grabbing any crossroads? More than 1 altar? any other source of trash?
I don't quite remember... maybe Wero does? They did NOT have multiple Altars. I THINK the other trasher might have been Spice Merchant. Actually, I think SM maybe helps the opening for the Tunnel plan too, but like I said, I had 5/2.
They did have Crossroads. I think they both started out attempting the Tunnel plan, but they never got the Catacombs and mine just took off quicker. I had several Storerooms and at least 2 Catacombs.
It was Spice Merchant. We both got one Altar, but never got around to using it - our decks were too thick, and that kingdom didn't have any draw aside from Storeroom.
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And Catacombs! Really can't say enough good things about Catacombs.
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And Catacombs! Really can't say enough good things about Catacombs.
Do you think Catacombs is going to be preferable to Embassy for card draw?
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And Catacombs! Really can't say enough good things about Catacombs.
Do you think Catacombs is going to be preferable to Embassy for card draw?
Catacombs and Embassy do rather different things. Catacombs does offer more cycling in that it can potentially go through 6 cards instead of 5, but Embassy allows you to discard cards already in your hand - Catacombs only discards the first three you draw, so I would probably prefer Embassy. Catacombs is still pretty damn good, though.
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And Catacombs! Really can't say enough good things about Catacombs.
Do you think Catacombs is going to be preferable to Embassy for card draw?
I am going to guess that Embassy is preferable. Catacombs gives you 3 cards and says "Do you want these or not?" Embassy let's you get rid of the junk you already have in your hand, if you like. So really, Embassy is going to be better, I think, almost always. But it's not a million times better, and it's already a very good card, so Catacombs doesn't suffer too much in the comparison.
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Maybe prefer Catacombs if free Silver would help your opponent a lot?
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Maybe prefer Catacombs if free Silver would help your opponent a lot?
Yes, this is true, but I'm trying to think up a situation where that free Silver is so consequential. If you open 5/2, and Catacombs and Embassy are both present, would you go Catacombs to avoid giving your opponent that free Silver before his reshuffle? I think the answer there may very well be yes.
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Maybe prefer Catacombs if free Silver would help your opponent a lot?
Yes, this is true, but I'm trying to think up a situation where that free Silver is so consequential. If you open 5/2, and Catacombs and Embassy are both present, would you go Catacombs to avoid giving your opponent that free Silver before his reshuffle? I think the answer there may very well be yes.
Yes.
Embassy is a great card on turn 3/4/5, but a dangerous card to open with. Giving your opponent an extra silver before the first reshuffle is very dangerous...
Ed
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Maybe prefer Catacombs if free Silver would help your opponent a lot?
Yes, this is true, but I'm trying to think up a situation where that free Silver is so consequential. If you open 5/2, and Catacombs and Embassy are both present, would you go Catacombs to avoid giving your opponent that free Silver before his reshuffle? I think the answer there may very well be yes.
Feodum would probably be a reason as well.
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Maybe prefer Catacombs if free Silver would help your opponent a lot?
Yes, this is true, but I'm trying to think up a situation where that free Silver is so consequential. If you open 5/2, and Catacombs and Embassy are both present, would you go Catacombs to avoid giving your opponent that free Silver before his reshuffle? I think the answer there may very well be yes.
It could certainly make the difference in Feodum games, which we played one of. Only Rob went for it though - the rest of us just used them as Silver pinatas (using Hermit). I believe I won that one through sheer force of Provinces.
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Oh, another situation where you would prefer Catacombs over Embassy would be if you are suffering from handsize-decreasing attacks. You would much prefer Catacombs then.
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If you have an engine and you've trashed most things down, or really any time you're trying to buy more than one province in a turn I might take Catacombs over Embassy, simply because you get more cards.
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If you have an engine and you've trashed most things down, or really any time you're trying to buy more than one province in a turn I might take Catacombs over Embassy, simply because you get more cards.
If that's the case, you may as well have a Smithy.
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If you have an engine and you've trashed most things down, or really any time you're trying to buy more than one province in a turn I might take Catacombs over Embassy, simply because you get more cards.
If that's the case, you may as well have a Smithy.
If you have 5 instead of 4 catacombs is easily preferrable to smithy and if you have 4 you probably want scout.
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If you have an engine and you've trashed most things down, or really any time you're trying to buy more than one province in a turn I might take Catacombs over Embassy, simply because you get more cards.
If that's the case, you may as well have a Smithy.
If you have 5 instead of 4 catacombs is easily preferrable to smithy and if you have 4 you probably want scout.
I usually hope for $6 and 2 buys, so I can get Scout and Estate (later I can draw it with Scout).
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If you have an engine and you've trashed most things down, or really any time you're trying to buy more than one province in a turn I might take Catacombs over Embassy, simply because you get more cards.
If that's the case, you may as well have a Smithy.
If you have 5 instead of 4 catacombs is easily preferrable to smithy and if you have 4 you probably want scout.
I usually hope for $6 and 2 buys, so I can get Scout and Estate (later I can draw it with Scout).
I meant in the heavily trashed deck described, which wouldn't have Victory cards for Scout to draw, or things you'd want to discard to Catacombs. At that point you could just Graverob a Catacombs into a Province and replace it with a Smithy.
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If you have an engine and you've trashed most things down, or really any time you're trying to buy more than one province in a turn I might take Catacombs over Embassy, simply because you get more cards.
If that's the case, you may as well have a Smithy.
If you have 5 instead of 4 catacombs is easily preferrable to smithy and if you have 4 you probably want scout.
I usually hope for $6 and 2 buys, so I can get Scout and Estate (later I can draw it with Scout).
I meant in the heavily trashed deck described, which wouldn't have Victory cards for Scout to draw, or things you'd want to discard to Catacombs. At that point you could just Graverob a Catacombs into a Province and replace it with a Smithy.
But when you get that province Catacombs and scout increase in value!
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If you have an engine and you've trashed most things down, or really any time you're trying to buy more than one province in a turn I might take Catacombs over Embassy, simply because you get more cards.
If that's the case, you may as well have a Smithy.
If you have 5 instead of 4 catacombs is easily preferrable to smithy and if you have 4 you probably want scout.
I usually hope for $6 and 2 buys, so I can get Scout and Estate (later I can draw it with Scout).
I meant in the heavily trashed deck described, which wouldn't have Victory cards for Scout to draw, or things you'd want to discard to Catacombs. At that point you could just Graverob a Catacombs into a Province and replace it with a Smithy.
But when you get that province Catacombs and scout increase in value!
So Graverob it back out of the trash.
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I'll actually post for once, why not?
Being new to Dark Ages, the Knights were certainly the hardest aspect for me to deal with so far. I don't think my early brainstorming on the set was horrible, but I definitely did a poor job of accounting for Knights specifically. Werothegreat's constant assault exposed my capable, but very narrow engine in a few games. I did much better in the games without the knights; I believe the one I won did not have them, though I don't remember.
They have some qualities similar to Saboteur in that their value increases with better drawing and the opportunity to play them more often, especially since it doesn't wander through your deck until it finds something worth it. However, unlike Saboteur, the cards do something for you, and there's the burning question of...should I take the knight that's less useful for me, if it will still may help me gain an advantage over my opponent? I guess it depends on the game. Knights' value may change based on the kingdom setup more than most cards.
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The Knights really do give a great mental image of just hacking and slashing at everyone else's decks.
Also, in one final game with just Axe Knight, I opened 5/2, which allowed me to snag a Cultist early. By the time he was able to produce $5, he had all the Ruins anyway. Cultist is definitely in a higher tier, cuddling with the likes of IGG, Witch and Mountebank. Band of Misfits and Catacombs are not too far behind, though. Knights, however, will definitely need a lot more playing before we can decide where they stand. In most of the kingdoms they seemed rather extraneous, and didn't do all that much to stop someone really going for big money or an engine.
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If you have an engine and you've trashed most things down, or really any time you're trying to buy more than one province in a turn I might take Catacombs over Embassy, simply because you get more cards.
If that's the case, you may as well have a Smithy.
Yes, in that case you would rather have a Smithy instead of an Embassy.
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Cultist is definitely in a higher tier, cuddling with the likes of IGG, Witch and Mountebank.
I didn't need the mental image of the Cultist cuddling with the Witch or Mountebank...
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Damn I am so jealous. All y'all having so much Dominion-fun off of the thread I started. How many games did you guys end up playing?
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Damn I am so jealous. All y'all having so much Dominion-fun off of the thread I started. How many games did you guys end up playing?
I think six? Four with me, Robz and Axe Knight, another adding Axe Knight's friend, and then another just between me and Axe Knight.
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Damn I am so jealous. All y'all having so much Dominion-fun off of the thread I started. How many games did you guys end up playing?
It was great! This might surprise you, but Axe Knight is not an axe-wielding knight in real life.
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In fact it does surprise me!
...not as much as him more or less skipping over the Knights during game play.
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I personally found the Knights rather inessential.
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I have found them to be rather meh as well
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I personally found the Knights rather inessential.
I meant to be punny what with his username containing the word "Knight." Alas, it went straight over everyone's head. :(
Though, I did successfully pin a friend the other day using them. Admittedly, he is not very good and had already over-trashed with Rats, but still, they have their moments, those Knights.
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I played a game with them. They were ok. We ended up running out because we both thought they were going to be phenomenal. I do like them better than Rogue.
We also had Beggar, which is a fantastic defense against Knights, which I think it's what its reaction is for.
Because it certainly isnt for Pirate Ship or Thief…
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In the Catacombs vs. Embassy discussion, I think it's easy to forget that Embassy simply isn't very good at drawing huge hands/drawing your whole deck, especially without heavy trashing. (And its filtering powers are somewhat wasted on that goal anyhow.) Sometimes that doesn't matter much, which is why we all love Embassy (and Hamlet), but other times it does. Catacombs has the draw power of a Smithy: enough to get that job done, which is probably its biggest advantage in this contest.
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Played a few few player Dark Ages games last night. One game with Knights. Really weren't that useful in the game I played, mainly because Marauder spam caused the Ruins to be dealt out very quickly and trashing was relatively weak. Junk Dealer was on the board but at $5 hard to mass them to rid yourself of Ruins. Forager was also there, was a first Dark Ages game so wasn't sure about buying mutiples of this. Anyways, I bought one Knight, but generally hit copper, Ruins, Spoils, Vagrants, etc. Much more useful is a game with better trashing/real engine. I get this in the Rats/Fortress/Death Cart game I played after they would be a real factor.