Dominion Strategy Forum
Meta => Feedback => Council Room Feedback => Topic started by: rrenaud on August 25, 2012, 12:00:21 am
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I am just not into Dominion anymore. Councilroom is going to be down permanently in one week if no one agrees to takes it over.
If you want to take over maintainance and adminship, send an email to councilroom-dev@googlegroups.com. I'll happily lend a hand in getting it running and answering questions about the code. Some competancy with Python and Unix is all that's really required.
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:(
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If I had any degree of competence in coding... :(
Thanks for all your hard work! It's really helped this game and its community.
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Though this is more isotropic than CR, I regret that I will never know what level I could have attained. I played somewhere around 100 games I think (maybe a bit more) and got to level 24 I think? And I've slowly fallen below 20 now (I think) simply due to not playing more.
And I did not have many CR achievements at all.
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Sadness :( I wish I could.
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It really is the Dark Ages.
Thanks rrneaud for all that you have done.
But, despite these being the Dark Ages for us Dominion players, soon, we will ban together and have Guilds!!!
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Thank you for the great work you put in there, it was a very big part of online dominion, at least (and definitely not only) for me.
This came somewhat suddenly, and I don't know if it's a big thing to ask, but it would be cool to have it online for its last day, because there are a lot of things I'd like to do knowing that it's my last chance.
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Man, I wish I had any idea about programming or hosting! Ah well, thanks for doing it.
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I'm tentatively interested - but I'm probably going to be on a dominion hiatus for a while. Are you going to archive everything so that if someone wants to ressurect it in 6 months they can do so?
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What exactly prompted this sudden lack of interest, if I may ask?
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I am just not into Dominion anymore. Councilroom is going to be down permanently in one week if no one agrees to takes it over.
If you want to take over maintainance and adminship, send an email to councilroom-dev@googlegroups.com. I'll happily lend a hand in getting it running and answering questions about the code. Some competancy with Python and Unix is all that's really required.
I'm interested. Am a programmer and have servers.
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I am just not into Dominion anymore.
You should go to the doctor.
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Sadly, I have no programming knowledge. Otherwise, I would probably say yes to the task. The only type of Python I know is that really big snake!
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Some students at MIT might be able to help you out. What's the deal with servers and whether we would need them?
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I feel sad about this... but I'm not into Dominion anymore either. Just combination of things going on here, in the community, the loss of any real fun for me, and overall, I've kinda lost any of my past will to buy the actual game.
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I feel sad about this... but I'm not into Dominion anymore either. Just combination of things going on here, in the community, the loss of any real fun for me, and overall, I've kinda lost any of my past will to buy the actual game.
If it makes a difference, I went through a similar phase about a year and a half ago. I just got burnt out. But then I started playing with friends offline again and it started being fun again. So much so that I'm back on Isotropic (new account) just in time to watch it fade into the night.
While online play is not as enjoyable as playing live, I'm finding this time around that one way to keep it fun is to take my time and actually savor each game. As in, really think about the kingdom cards before the game, instead of falling into automatic habits. At key points in the game, take a moment to see if my natural inclination is actually the right move. Some opponents do get annoyed because they want to play blitz Dominion, but usually it's OK if you explain that you're just pondering. And finally, it's fun to appreciate the good play of my opponent, and admire some new engine they're putting into effect, or just the efficiency of their deck, or the wisdom of a key buy. Sometimes I like to go over the game log of a game I lost to see what awesomesauce my opponent conjured. And of course to steal it for future use :)
It's a strategy game, and it's way more enjoyable if it gets some air to breathe. I think sometimes people forget that.
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I'd prefer other people to host the server. There has been interest from people with servers in hosting it, but no one has a copy up and running yet. People at MIT sound like they'd make great developers, especially if rspeer was included. Maybe you and your friends could develop the code that is production hosted elsewhere? OTOH, having a local copy is always nice for development.
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oh shit, one week? Yeah, I'll do it. I'm a python/unix guy.
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Here is a mail I sent to the councilroom dev mailing list yesterday on how to get it set up.
Hi guys, thanks for volunteering!
Councilroom was hosted on a relatively puny $1000 machine I bought from Dell ~1.5 years ago and served off my home cable model. The only interesting thing about it was that it had 16 GB of RAM. The server runs some recentish version of Ubuntu (10.4?), but the councilroom code shouldn't really have many weird or crazy dependencies, any unix-like machine should be able to get it the deps without much work.
The councilroom github has instructions to get it running that should just work under the "long arduous setup". It will take awhile to download the games, parse and compute the stats, but it should be automatic and hopefully reasonably robust.
https://github.com/rrenaud/dominionstats/blob/master/README.rst
The server has been falling over a lot recently, I suspect because a few of the pages are coded very poorly and traverse a whole users set of games to compute stats (popular buys per player, the player page, and the player vs other player record page all do this). When a a similarly poorly coded search engine comes around (these pages are blocked by robots.txt, but some search engines don't honor it), it just keeps putting too many requests on those uber slow pages and councilroom eventually runs out of memory and dies. The decision to do a scan of all the players games came when players had a few hundred game max, but now that there are crazy people with 10k games, and so the design is horribly broken. If someone pre-computed those pages, I am pretty sure a 486 could serve councilroom fine.
I think it would be best if all 3 of you guys served councilroom, and just the beefiest machine took councilroom.com, and we added some links to 0.councilroom.com and 1.councilroom.com as backups in case the main server went down. Alternatively, maybe we could use round robin DNS to balance among all 3? My networking foo is pretty weak. But certainly, having a few people maintain independent copies is better than just picking one interested admin, since there are three of you.
If anything is unclear or broken with the instructions, please respond and I'll try to clarify and help. Also, you guys might want to join the dev mailing list directly at https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!forum/councilroom-dev
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So, unfortunately my hosting won't be able to do this after all (mongodb not available and it's not my box). Apologies.
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Do we have any update on this front?
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There was a fair amount of interest, but no one has it up and running. Some people hit problems with disk space, especially those trying to run it in virtual servers. I had a ton of disk and no big need to optimize it away. Others hit problems with ancient versions of Python installed on their servers.
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I could just give people ssh access to the machine and tell them to email me when they need to restart it.
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I could just give people ssh access to the machine and tell them to email me when they need to restart it.
Yeah. Let's try that.
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I just want to say how awesome you guys are, trying to get this thing running. Especially rrenaud - that's a very generous offer to leave councilroom on your machine.
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I could just give people ssh access to the machine and tell them to email me when they need to restart it.
Yeah. Let's try that.
Ah what the hell, I'm just a novice coder, but if you need any help with this project, send me a message. I'm definitely willing to learn.
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So... ah... how's it looking? With regards to ever seeing Councilroom up again?.... :-[
That is, is it kaput forever? Or are things moving forward with some of the people who've suggested they'd like to help?
....I just really miss Councilroom.... :'(
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If you still need someone, I have quite a bit of experience hosting web servers, and I've played around with Python and MongoDB enough to know what's going on. I host all of my web sites on the Rackspace Cloud or Amazon EC2, and both have proven to be fast and dependable. My favorite OS is Ubuntu Server. PM me on the forums here if I can be of assistance :)
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I do miss Council Room. Sadly, I do not know nothing about programming or anything.
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I miss councilroom a lot, but really, I just want a way to look at my past games. Are they logged anywhere else where we could see them?
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I miss councilroom a lot, but really, I just want a way to look at my past games. Are they logged anywhere else where we could see them?
You could collect the links to your logs after you play games and then start your own little collection.
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I miss councilroom a lot, but really, I just want a way to look at my past games. Are they logged anywhere else where we could see them?
You could collect the links to your logs after you play games and then start your own little collection.
I've actually started doing that. Catalogues of "Ambassador games", "IGG games" "Crazy KC games", etc. God I'm lonely.
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Is this collection a result of your loneliness or a cause of your loneliness? :D
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Is this collection a result of your loneliness or a cause of your loneliness? :D
Causality is difficult to ascertain without careful experimentation. Correlation is much more easily determined.
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Causality is difficult to ascertain without careful experimentation. Correlation is much more easily determined.
So true! 8) (http://xkcd.com/552/)
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Where do things stand on this topic? I have none of the skills needed to do it myself, but would be willing to help in some way (dollars, time, laundry, Chinese food, Latin tutoring, homework, dog training, airplane rides, bourbon guidance - work with me here. I can't be bought but I can be rented for extended periods of time).
Seriously though, is there no one in the community that can pull this off? What are the remaining obstacles?
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David Lu wanted to maintain it weeks ago, but didn't have a server. He certainly has the skills but not the resources.
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rr - look for a PM later today.
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I assume that restanding up CR and hooking to the remaining of iso data is probably relatively easy. The real work is moving over to start parsing goko logs etc.
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If it's a matter of cost I'd be willing to donate some for the cause. In fact, I bet if someone set up a Paypal donation account lots of people would contribute here.
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I agree, we would probably get some contributions.
RR, you have your PM now.
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What's the status of this? I could look into getting this hosted with mafiascum.net, if all that's holding it up is a server.
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I think that's the main holdup.
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I am guessing you don't have > 200 GB of free space on that host.
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I don't know a lot about web hosting, but is 200 GB a lot of space? My computer (bought half a year ago) has 465 GB on its two hard drives and I have over 400 GB of it free.
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It's enough that you'd risk getting meaningful looks from any of the standard "my first website" hosts that promise unlimited storage. There's also the fact that searching such a huge database is computationally intensive, and likely to get stomped on to protect other users of a shared server.
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I am guessing you don't have > 200 GB of free space on that host.
We don't have any particular technical limitations beyond what our host is willing to donate to the cause. For all practical purposes we're on a dedicated server. I'll run it by him - at the least he could give you an idea of how much it would cost to host if you want to go the donation route. (If for some reason we were using 200GB for mafiascum I don't think that would be a problem, but I can't speak for how he feels about adding an unrelated site.)
What sort of CPU hit did you have on it when it was last up?
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My server would occasionally fall over when player pages were scraped automatically. I wrote it when players had hundreds of games. But then some crazy bastards got well into the high thousands, and it scaled very poorly. The player page code could enforce some hard limits on #games scanned, or pre-compute some of the stats. I think David Lu is willing to do the engineering, he just needs a beefy enough server.
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Alright, cool. He got back with a tentatively positive response, and I sent him an overview of Dominion and councilroom and pointed him to this thread and the development group to give him an idea of what this is all about.
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Is this where I go to collect my Santa hat?
I'm the dude that mith was referring to. I basically have unlimited resources for this type of project and he made a convincing pitch.
Python
The fact that it's written in python is a bonus.
Maybe we should all get together in a mumble room or something and talk this over. I'm usually idling in either Zoloft or one of the gaming channels on the Mumble server hosted at apollo.corbe.net.
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I've got mumble installed and a mic working, but I've never used it. I added a server for apollo.corbe.net on the default port, but I couldn't connect there. I can't find zoloft in any of the drop downs.
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I didn't expect such a quick response. I'm on a train headed home for the holidays so I'll be on a bit later tonight.
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Okay, sounds good to me. 7 PM EST work for you?
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I'll probably just be getting off the train around that time. It would have to be later. Around 9ish?
If that's too late for you I'm available all day Sunday.
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Okay, 9 PM EST works for me.
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Works for me too
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Yeah Im in too!
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I managed to get a stable enough Internet connection on 3G to check to see that the mumble server is running and it is, so if you're unfamiliar with mumble, here's the process.
You can download the mumble client here:
http://mumble.sourceforge.net/
Once you have it downloaded and installed, connection>new should get you to this:
(http://i46.tinypic.com/2exr4g5.png)
Enter the server information as you see there (label it whatever you want).
Supply your own username and password. The server does not care the first time you sign in but each subsequent sign in will require this information.
You can then press connect to connect.
Once you are connected to the server, pull the Self menu down to Register so that your username and password are secured for life.
Editor's Note: I highly suggest you configure push to talk if for nothing more than the sanity of the people who don't want to hear you chewing or breathing into your mic. You can do this by going configure>settings> Under transmission change it to push to talk. And then you can configure the push button by going configure>settings>shortcuts> press add, click the 'unassigned' option that shows up, change to push to talk, press the short cut area, press the key you want to use as your push to talk button.
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Man, does this mean we are our first serious step closer to having councilroom back up?
Hohum, I hope you have a head big enough for the ENORMOUS Santa hat this would get you.
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I'll hop on as well.
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I logged into the mumble server with an android app on my nexus 7, but I can't seem to speak. There is an X through my icon, I don't know what that means.
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If you really want voice chat, I have google+ hangouts working on my tablet.
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It means you're in a suppressed room. If you're "k" then you were in the AFK channel. I moved you to Zoloft.
But at any rate, how do we get started.
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So, any news from Yalta?
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I think so far we've agreed on an anti-Nazi stance.
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hohum is going to be setting [something, I was totally paying attention to the technical details...] up and meanwhile starting the download of the daily log dumps. He's happy to poke at the code, and rrenaud will help get him up to speed, but long term we'll want someone in charge of maintaining (David Lu, if he's still willing).
I will help as little as possible and take all the credit. I may poke at the code too, as an excuse to re-learn Python.
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Is this where I go to collect my Santa hat?
I'm the dude that mith was referring to. I basically have unlimited resources for this type of project and he made a convincing pitch.
Python
The fact that it's written in python is a bonus.
Maybe we should all get together in a mumble room or something and talk this over. I'm usually idling in either Zoloft or one of the gaming channels on the Mumble server hosted at apollo.corbe.net.
You are my hero. Thank you!
Also, for rrneaud, do you think there will be a way to add Goko logs to the Councilroom database? I am very curious to see what the current stats for DA cards is.
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Is this where I go to collect my Santa hat?
(http://imgur.com/Bytbw.png)
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He should have registered as hohohohum...
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Adding support for Goko/dark ages really shouldn't be that hard for anyone with the will to do it.
One thing Goko got right is that their log format is insanely simple and easy to read/parse.
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Do you think they would allow access to the location their data are stored? Please pardon the question if this info is already out there, or if I'm making an assumption about security issues that don't hold. I'm not a comp sci guy.
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Adding support for Goko/dark ages really shouldn't be that hard for anyone with the will to do it.
One thing Goko got right is that their log format is insanely simple and easy to read/parse.
I will do it, but I don't know a single thing about computer programming sadly. :(
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Hey All,
Sorry I missed the recent developments on this thread... But I've been busy, working with David Lu, to get the Council Room site back up and running. :)
It's not fully "there", but much of what we've got is functional, the latest data is loaded, and it is currently running at http://councilroom.mccllstr.com (http://councilroom.mccllstr.com). We are currently working through a final few issues before throwing open the doors. The big ones we're aware of are tracked here: https://github.com/mikemccllstr/dominionstats/issues?milestone=1&page=1&sort=comments&state=open (https://github.com/mikemccllstr/dominionstats/issues?milestone=1&page=1&sort=comments&state=open). That said, feel free to hit the site, poke around, and let us know if there are other problems we're not yet aware of.
Our latest code is available here: https://github.com/mikemccllstr/dominionstats (https://github.com/mikemccllstr/dominionstats). We've done a bunch of work on it over the last few months, and while the external functionality is basically unchanged from when Council Room was last online, the internals are quite a bit more efficient in their use of system resources, and they are better able to take advantage of multiple machines (like in the Amazon Web Services cloud, where it is currently running). I'm interested in making bigger changes once things are fully back online, and this should be a great place to build from.
If anyone is interested in helping out, let me know. Git Hub makes it easy to collaborate, and I'm happy to grant developer or admin access to the server where it's running if it makes sense.
Mike
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What he's trying to say is:
COUNCILROOM IS BACK UP!!!
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Why isn't it faster yet? Come on Mike - I know you can do better than Rob.
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But seriously - THANKS!
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I'm so happy. Upvotes for everyone!
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Yayyy! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjjZGyYcH9E)
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If you set up a name.com account, I'll transfer ownership of the councilroom.com domain.
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welp.
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It is exciting to see folks start hitting the site again. Keep in mind that I'm new to hosting this particular code base. If you see something is amiss, please say something, because it might not be obvious to me. You can reach me via email to mike@mccllstr.com, logging an issue in GitHub, or posting here. I'm also hanging out in the #councilroom channel on IRC.
I've got a number of ideas about how I would like to evolve and enhance the site, but I want to get it back to "baseline" (with all the existing features behaving as expected) before starting anything else. We're tracking those issues with the "Public Relaunch" milestone in GitHub. Once those are all closed, and once the site has seen enough usage to suggest no other issues exist, it will be fun to work on bigger optimizations or new features.
Mike
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A hearty thanks to Mike and everyone involved in bringing Council Room back to life. Today is indeed a happy day!
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Just curious - what really is the point of Council Room if iso is going to be going offline soon? Goko has been doing nothing but improving, which makes it seem unlikely that iso will be allowed to carry on for much longer.
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Just curious - what really is the point of Council Room if iso is going to be going offline soon? Goko has been doing nothing but improving, which makes it seem unlikely that iso will be allowed to carry on for much longer.
Why can't councilroom pull logs from goko?
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This is beyond awesome news! Now, we just need councilroom to pull logs from Goko and all will be set!
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Just curious - what really is the point of Council Room if iso is going to be going offline soon? Goko has been doing nothing but improving, which makes it seem unlikely that iso will be allowed to carry on for much longer.
Why can't councilroom pull logs from goko?
I would be all in favor of that, since after
1) Fixing bugs
2) Getting out every expansion
3) Putting in Wei-Hwa's set generator and a match-making system
They need to make their logs less opaque. That really was what iso did best - everything was color-coded, and you knew exactly what was done.
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This is beyond awesome news! Now, we just need councilroom to pull logs from Goko and all will be set!
I see what you did there.
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Just curious - what really is the point of Council Room if iso is going to be going offline soon? Goko has been doing nothing but improving, which makes it seem unlikely that iso will be allowed to carry on for much longer.
Why can't councilroom pull logs from goko?
I would be all in favor of that, since after
1) Fixing bugs
2) Getting out every expansion
3) Putting in Wei-Hwa's set generator and a match-making system
They need to make their logs less opaque. That really was what iso did best - everything was color-coded, and you knew exactly what was done.
The goko logs are really easy for the computer to parse right now. They are super hard for humans to read, but whatevs.
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I'd feel better if it said "buys and then gains" rather than just "gains." Even just "buys" would be better.
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Anyone know how to download Goko logs in bulk?
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Anyone know how to download Goko logs in bulk?
This is where all the logs are stored. http://dominionlogs.goko.com/
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I'd feel better if it said "buys and then gains" rather than just "gains." Even just "buys" would be better.
And if it specified where the card was gained from (when it's not from the supply). Now the log says "plays a Graverobber, gains a Cultist" even if it's gained from the trash.
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I'd feel better if it said "buys and then gains" rather than just "gains." Even just "buys" would be better.
And if it specified where the card was gained from (when it's not from the supply). Now the log says "plays a Graverobber, gains a Cultist" even if it's gained from the trash.
On the bright side, Graverobber and Rogue can only gain from the Trash.
Edit: except of course when Graverobber is doing the expand-an-action thing :p
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Anyone know how to download Goko logs in bulk?
GET http://dominionlogs.goko.com/20120727/ | grep -oE 'a href=\"([a-zA-Z0-9\.]*)\"' | sed 's/a href=\"//g' | sed 's/\"//g' | xargs -I{} wget "dominionlogs.goko.com/20120727/{}"
... and maybe loop this over the date...
edit: simplified
edit2: better would of course be goko had some compressed version of the day, because obviously there is a lot possibility to compress
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Anyone know how to download Goko logs in bulk?
GET http://dominionlogs.goko.com/20120727/ | grep -oE 'a href=\"([a-zA-Z0-9\.]*)\"' | sed 's/a href=\"//g' | sed 's/\"//g' | xargs -I{} wget "dominionlogs.goko.com/20120727/{}"
... and maybe loop this over the date...
edit: simplified
edit2: better would of course be goko had some compressed version of the day, because obviously there is a lot possibility to compress
Yeah, I also just checked that out. The format is also pretty minimalistic which makes it easy to parse and it could be pretty-printed into the nice colored HTML format that we know and love.
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Thanks so much to Mike McCallister and everyone else involved for getting CouncilRoom back up again! :D
If you see something is amiss, please say something, because it might not be obvious to me.
I have noticed two bugs today:
1. While yesterday's games have been added to today's Councilroom, levels have not been updated. For instance, I was level 42 yesterday and level 44 today - Councilroom is still showing level 42.
(I have checked some other people who have changed their level today according to the leaderboard and Councilroom shows their old level as well.)
Similar bugs had happened on the old Councilroom before: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=2897.0
2. There are some new goals (nice!), one of them is "PurplePileDriver - Gained all the curses and won". It can be seen in lots of people's stats. I had at least one game where I did that as well, I saved one fairly recent game report link:
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/01/game-20121201-103128-e6e30146.html
However, my achieved goals don't list PurplePileDriver, so the recognition of it doesn't seem to work properly yet.
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It would be great if you could get in the Goko statistics before QVist starts his rankings, so that those of us who no longer play on iso can have their rankings weighed properly.
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Dear Mike McCallister,
You have only posted three times on this forum. I have +1-ed every one of them and I feel like that is not enough.
Plz 2 post moar?
Seriously, this is like the best day ever.
;D
Sincerely,
-Adam
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One thing with the goko logs is that it doesn't separate pro games from casual from unranked from adventure. It may make sense to exclude bot games from various card statistics maybe? And obviously exclude adventure games where the starting decks are uneven - especially since there's going to be a *lot* of adventure games.
But on the other hand, people may want to search for those games... dunno. Something to consider.
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I think Goko just should include starting decks in logs (which will be useful not only with adventures, but also with Shelter games) and indicate which players are bots. And I guess they can be talked into it, maybe not to do it tomorrow, but in some reasonable time. Probably we should start a "We want better logs" thread at getsatisfaction more or less when Hinterlands 2 is released and list all improvements to logs we would like to see.
I don't think we should exclude bots, at least the casual play bots. They are not bad. I think if we let them play on Iso they'd be around level 10-15 (I'm level 21 and have more or less 70% win rate against them). And we don't exclude level 5 or less players from Iso statistics (at least I guess we don't).
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Um, hey DominionStrategy. I've avoided the forums up until now, but thought I'd say hi now that we're back up and running.
Just to follow up on what Mike said, please let us know of any issues you come across while poking the site. As I'm aware how daunting a big code repository can be, if you'd rather, I've set up a shared Google doc (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ArCi1BfUMYrzdGp5d3dPWjdFS3dNMHd2al9pZFBjTEE) for people to input into (which I'll then likely copy into the actual issue tracker as I see fit).
Happy dominioning!
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I think Goko just should include starting decks in logs (which will be useful not only with adventures, but also with Shelter games) and indicate which players are bots. And I guess they can be talked into it, maybe not to do it tomorrow, but in some reasonable time. Probably we should start a "We want better logs" thread at getsatisfaction more or less when Hinterlands 2 is released and list all improvements to logs we would like to see.
I don't think we should exclude bots, at least the casual play bots. They are not bad. I think if we let them play on Iso they'd be around level 10-15 (I'm level 21 and have more or less 70% win rate against them). And we don't exclude level 5 or less players from Iso statistics (at least I guess we don't).
I think having it say LORD BOTTINGTON'S TURN is indication enough.
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So no one has registered the name LORD BOTTINGTON yet?
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I think Goko just should include starting decks in logs (which will be useful not only with adventures, but also with Shelter games) and indicate which players are bots.
It already does both of those things. The starting decks are displayed, and each player's name is displayed. (And the names of all of the bots are I think publicly known, though there's a lot of different names for the adventure mode bots.)
So no one has registered the name LORD BOTTINGTON yet?
You know, that's definitely something to try. See what the log there does...
Or, actually - what does it look like when a log has two of the same bot? I don't know.
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I remember someone posting some bug report with a goko log and then someone else thought the bug was that the opponent had two turns in a row, because they were playing two identical bots.
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The good thing is that Goko logs do show what the starting decks are, so I think for statistical purposes, any logs that aren't 7 coppers and 3 estates or 7 coppers and Necropolis, OE, and Hovel can be not calculated for statistical purposes like best openings and whatnot.
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The good thing is that Goko logs do show what the starting decks are, so I think for statistical purposes, any logs that aren't 7 coppers and 3 estates or 7 coppers and Necropolis, OE, and Hovel can be not calculated for statistical purposes like best openings and whatnot.
But my Province/Gold opening is SOOOOO strong!
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The good thing is that Goko logs do show what the starting decks are, so I think for statistical purposes, any logs that aren't 7 coppers and 3 estates or 7 coppers and Necropolis, OE, and Hovel can be not calculated for statistical purposes like best openings and whatnot.
But my Province/Gold opening is SOOOOO strong!
Why not Colony/Colony?
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The good thing is that Goko logs do show what the starting decks are, so I think for statistical purposes, any logs that aren't 7 coppers and 3 estates or 7 coppers and Necropolis, OE, and Hovel can be not calculated for statistical purposes like best openings and whatnot.
But my Province/Gold opening is SOOOOO strong!
Why not Colony/Colony?
Using Zaps you can't get your starting deck above 7 silver/3 duchies. On a 4/3 that lets you open Province/gold. I have used that opneing in some adventure finales burning 20+ zaps to even out the chances against 3 bots with some unfair strategies that help each other.
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The good thing is that Goko logs do show what the starting decks are, so I think for statistical purposes, any logs that aren't 7 coppers and 3 estates or 7 coppers and Necropolis, OE, and Hovel can be not calculated for statistical purposes like best openings and whatnot.
But my Province/Gold opening is SOOOOO strong!
Why not Colony/Colony?
Using Zaps you can't get your starting deck above 7 silver/3 duchies. On a 4/3 that lets you open Province/gold. I have used that opneing in some adventure finales burning 20+ zaps to even out the chances against 3 bots with some unfair strategies that help each other.
Oh. Well, I guess Platinum/4cost is still up there...