Dominion Strategy Forum

Dominion => Adventures Previews => Empires Previews => Dominion: Nocturne Previews => Dominion: Renaissance Previews => Dominion General Discussion => Dark Ages Previews => Topic started by: whaleyland on August 20, 2012, 03:27:52 am

Title: Speculation Regarding Future Knights Cards
Post by: whaleyland on August 20, 2012, 03:27:52 am
Hey, new to the forums but certainly not to Dominion. I have a strong speculation regarding the Knights, although I need to wait for the secret history to confirm at least a part of it. I am guessing each knight is based on a friend, colleague, supporter, contributor, etc., of Donald X. That being said, and keeping in mind that Dark Ages was intended to be the last and final Dominion expansion planned in advance, I think that Donald, Jay, and other Dominion distributors intend to release promotional Dominion Knights cards in future years as special in-house promotional and print-and-play cards.

This reasoning is based on the Catan Card Game by KOSMOS, which every Christmas released a new Knight card based on someone associated with the development of the Cataniverse in-house that was afterward made available publicly as a print-and-play card. I believe they stopped this program in 2011 with the release of Rivals of Catan (or rather Princes of Catan), which rebooted the series and provided many opportunities to place said people in the game from the get-go.

I don't know if Donald himself would go to such lengths to include something like this, but the opportunity provided by Knights seems to be too much and the pile is really infinitely expandable with just the proviso that the pile must begin with 10 cards, with additional cards randomly removed. I think Donald will begin releasing promo Knights this year or next year, perhaps when the game is done. It may be Jay, or even a foreign distributor, that begins releasing a few a year, but I feel the Knights are the best way to do something like this.

What are others' thoughts on this matter?
Title: Re: Speculation Regarding Future Knights Cards
Post by: Beyond Awesome on August 20, 2012, 03:36:49 am
Hey, new to the forums but certainly not to Dominion. I have a strong speculation regarding the Knights, although I need to wait for the secret history to confirm at least a part of it. I am guessing each knight is based on a friend, colleague, supporter, contributor, etc., of Donald X. That being said, and keeping in mind that Dark Ages was intended to be the last and final Dominion expansion planned in advance, I think that Donald, Jay, and other Dominion distributors intend to release promotional Dominion Knights cards in future years as special in-house promotional and print-and-play cards.

This reasoning is based on the Catan Card Game by KOSMOS, which every Christmas released a new Knight card based on someone associated with the development of the Cataniverse in-house that was afterward made available publicly as a print-and-play card. I believe they stopped this program in 2011 with the release of Rivals of Catan (or rather Princes of Catan), which rebooted the series and provided many opportunities to place said people in the game from the get-go.

I don't know if Donald himself would go to such lengths to include something like this, but the opportunity provided by Knights seems to be too much and the pile is really infinitely expandable with just the proviso that the pile must begin with 10 cards, with additional cards randomly removed. I think Donald will begin releasing promo Knights this year or next year, perhaps when the game is done. It may be Jay, or even a foreign distributor, that begins releasing a few a year, but I feel the Knights are the best way to do something like this.

What are others' thoughts on this matter?

If they were to do promos like this, I would prefer a Supply pile that wasn't Knights.
Title: Re: Speculation Regarding Future Knights Cards
Post by: HiveMindEmulator on August 20, 2012, 03:48:20 am
The thing about knights is that their unique abilities are not all that interesting, and they can't be without making them overpowered with respect to other knights. So mostly you get a new name and new art, and a card that is not that different from ones you already have, and that you will rarely see anyway, since not only do knights have to be in the kingdom, but this has to be a chosen knight, and close enough to the top of the pile to actually get bought.
Title: Re: Speculation Regarding Future Knights Cards
Post by: Donald X. on August 20, 2012, 03:50:51 am
The knights are all people, the names anyway. I am just waiting for stores to get the expansion before posting the secret history. Such is the way of my people.

I have no plans to ever do more knights, as promos or otherwise. I guess if a "treasure chest" expansion ever happened, adding another knight would be an option there, but I wouldn't guarantee it.
Title: Re: Speculation Regarding Future Knights Cards
Post by: whaleyland on August 20, 2012, 04:18:15 am
The knights are all people, the names anyway. I am just waiting for stores to get the expansion before posting the secret history. Such is the way of my people.

I have no plans to ever do more knights, as promos or otherwise. I guess if a "treasure chest" expansion ever happened, adding another knight would be an option there, but I wouldn't guarantee it.

Well at least I called one aspect of the Knights. The variance of the names suggested things couldn't be otherwise. Regarding the second part of your statement, though, I just hope Jay or some European distributor doesn't get in their mind to start releasing promos without first consulting with you or thoroughly playtesting the cards. While there are probably a few more promo Knights that could be done with minimal balance testing, I rather doubt there are many. I guess Knights don't ALWAYS have to cost 5 coins. That just is a convenience.

Regarding a "Treasure Chest" expansion, I assume something like this is in the works for probably three years from now. Perhaps it will include an extra Potion-cost Action card (some specific card idea or another that fans have been clamoring for), all the Promo cards, an extra Prize, an extra Knight or two, perhaps a new Duration card, and I'd Guess four or five new Kingdom cards. I wouldn't expect anything larger than a 150 card expansion, let's speculate:

5 x 10-Card Promo cards = 50 Cards
4 x 10-Card Kingdoms = 40 Cards
1 x 12-Card Victory Kingdom = 12 Cards
1 x 10-Card Duration = 10 Cards
1 x 10-Card Potions-cost card = 10 Cards
2 x Prize Card = 2 Card
2 x Knights Card = 2 Card
1 x 10-Card Anticipated Promo cards = 10 Cards
1 x Anticipated Guild Card = 1 Card
13 x Randomizers = 13 Cards

TOTAL CARDS = 150 Cards

Just a fun-thought summary for the "Treasure Box" expansion (Possibly coming 2015!)  :D
Title: Re: Speculation Regarding Future Knights Cards
Post by: Donald X. on August 20, 2012, 04:39:15 am
Regarding a "Treasure Chest" expansion, I assume something like this is in the works for probably three years from now.
Nothing is in the works, and it may be that nothing ever happens. It is not exactly Jay's kind of thing. When someone first mentioned the idea (I think it was Anthony Rubbo), I thought, it would be two more cards for each large expansion, one for each small expansion.
Title: Re: Speculation Regarding Future Knights Cards
Post by: dondon151 on August 20, 2012, 05:05:09 am
I guess if a "treasure chest" expansion ever happened, adding another knight would be an option there, but I wouldn't guarantee it.

How about a promo set of Dominion to celebrate the 10th anniversary of Dominion :D
Title: Re: Speculation Regarding Future Knights Cards
Post by: Ozle on August 20, 2012, 05:40:26 am
Regarding a "Treasure Chest" expansion, I assume something like this is in the works for probably three years from now.
Nothing is in the works, and it may be that nothing ever happens. It is not exactly Jay's kind of thing. When someone first mentioned the idea (I think it was Anthony Rubbo), I thought, it would be two more cards for each large expansion, one for each small expansion.


Does this mean you have spare cards (balanced and tested) that never made it into any of the expansions at all?
Or would you have to make new ones up from scratch?

Title: Re: Speculation Regarding Future Knights Cards
Post by: jsmarvin on August 20, 2012, 08:59:46 am
The knights are all people, the names anyway. I am just waiting for stores to get the expansion before posting the secret history. Such is the way of my people.

Does that mean that the artists who drew the individual knights just chose arbitrary features, or did they have any information regarding the associated namesake?

Does a Canadian store count? Geekstop Games claims to have it in stock (both on their website and a forum member associated with the store says they have it).

Title: Re: Speculation Regarding Future Knights Cards
Post by: RyanRomanik on August 20, 2012, 11:23:13 am
I have a strong speculation regarding the Knights, although I need to wait for the secret history to confirm at least a part of it. I am guessing each knight is based on a friend, colleague, supporter, contributor, etc., of Donald X.

Dark Ages Rulebook (http://www.riograndegames.com/uploads/Game/Game_421_gameRules.pdf)

The names of most of the Knights can be found in the link above, in the Thanks section at the end.
Title: Re: Speculation Regarding Future Knights Cards
Post by: Beyond Awesome on August 20, 2012, 01:11:53 pm
Regarding a "Treasure Chest" expansion, I assume something like this is in the works for probably three years from now.
Nothing is in the works, and it may be that nothing ever happens. It is not exactly Jay's kind of thing. When someone first mentioned the idea (I think it was Anthony Rubbo), I thought, it would be two more cards for each large expansion, one for each small expansion.

That sounds awesome actually. I loved to have one more potion cost card because it feels like there aren't enough of those. Sounds like a really neat idea.
Title: Re: Speculation Regarding Future Knights Cards
Post by: Tmwinand on August 20, 2012, 01:31:48 pm
It would be a perfect set to go along with the official storage solution!
Title: Re: Speculation Regarding Future Knights Cards
Post by: Donald X. on August 20, 2012, 04:05:27 pm
How about a promo set of Dominion to celebrate the 10th anniversary of Dominion :D
It could try to sum up Dominion in a card!

Castle Builder - Action, $6
You may play an Action card from your hand. You may play any number of Treasure cards from your hand. You may buy a card. Discard your hand. Draw until you have five cards in hand.
Title: Re: Speculation Regarding Future Knights Cards
Post by: Donald X. on August 20, 2012, 04:06:19 pm
Does this mean you have spare cards (balanced and tested) that never made it into any of the expansions at all?
Or would you have to make new ones up from scratch?
No, I would be making new ones. There are endless outtakes but one would hope I could do better.
Title: Re: Speculation Regarding Future Knights Cards
Post by: Donald X. on August 20, 2012, 04:08:16 pm
Does that mean that the artists who drew the individual knights just chose arbitrary features, or did they have any information regarding the associated namesake?
Two people didn't want to be illustrated, and two couldn't really be illustrated. The other six submitted pictures of themselves. Of those, five were actually illustrated; you are not recognizing Sir Vander in the distance and under that helmet.
Title: Re: Speculation Regarding Future Knights Cards
Post by: Beyond Awesome on August 20, 2012, 04:36:19 pm
How about a promo set of Dominion to celebrate the 10th anniversary of Dominion :D
It could try to sum up Dominion in a card!

Castle Builder - Action, $6
You may play an Action card from your hand. You may play any number of Treasure cards from your hand. You may buy a card. Discard your hand. Draw until you have five cards in hand.

That seems extremely powerful, but it is an awesome card.
Title: Re: Speculation Regarding Future Knights Cards
Post by: Rhombus on August 20, 2012, 05:32:25 pm
How about a promo set of Dominion to celebrate the 10th anniversary of Dominion :D
It could try to sum up Dominion in a card!

Castle Builder - Action, $6
You may play an Action card from your hand. You may play any number of Treasure cards from your hand. You may buy a card. Discard your hand. Draw until you have five cards in hand.

That's actually pretty cool.
Title: Re: Speculation Regarding Future Knights Cards
Post by: thirtyseven on August 20, 2012, 05:34:34 pm
How about a promo set of Dominion to celebrate the 10th anniversary of Dominion :D
It could try to sum up Dominion in a card!

Castle Builder - Action, $6
You may play an Action card from your hand. You may play any number of Treasure cards from your hand. You may buy a card. Discard your hand. Draw until you have five cards in hand.

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-s1NaGT0Ge3I/TxIy9MV7mJI/AAAAAAAAA4E/fAE0qLH4H-4/s1600/Yo+Dawg.jpg)
Title: Re: Speculation Regarding Future Knights Cards
Post by: () | (_) ^/ on August 21, 2012, 08:29:48 am
How about a promo set of Dominion to celebrate the 10th anniversary of Dominion :D
It could try to sum up Dominion in a card!

Castle Builder - Action, $6
You may play an Action card from your hand. You may play any number of Treasure cards from your hand. You may buy a card. Discard your hand. Draw until you have five cards in hand.

That seems extremely powerful, but it is an awesome card.

Pretty sure that is too strong at $6.  Should probably be a $7.  Who does this Donald guy think he is?
Title: Re: Speculation Regarding Future Knights Cards
Post by: Gamer_2k4 on August 21, 2012, 03:36:13 pm
How about a promo set of Dominion to celebrate the 10th anniversary of Dominion :D
It could try to sum up Dominion in a card!

Castle Builder - Action, $6
You may play an Action card from your hand. You may play any number of Treasure cards from your hand. You may buy a card. Discard your hand. Draw until you have five cards in hand.

Or, to put it another way: Take a free turn!

Just have to play an action builder first, I guess.
Title: Re: Speculation Regarding Future Knights Cards
Post by: Beyond Awesome on August 21, 2012, 03:54:39 pm
How about a promo set of Dominion to celebrate the 10th anniversary of Dominion :D
It could try to sum up Dominion in a card!

Castle Builder - Action, $6
You may play an Action card from your hand. You may play any number of Treasure cards from your hand. You may buy a card. Discard your hand. Draw until you have five cards in hand.

Or, to put it another way: Take a free turn!

Just have to play an action builder first, I guess.

It's not the exact same as taking a free turn, but it does offer some interesting implications.
Title: Re: Speculation Regarding Future Knights Cards
Post by: Squidd on August 21, 2012, 03:55:26 pm
Not quite, since +Actions can't be used until after CB is fully resolved. For example, you might play Lab for CB, draw another Lab -- doesn't matter, can't play it, have to discard it. It would be crazy strong, yes, but not at all the same as a normal turn.

Also, CB-Tactician would be awesome. (Ideally with Village first, but even without.)
Title: Re: Speculation Regarding Future Knights Cards
Post by: blueblimp on August 21, 2012, 04:13:14 pm
How about a promo set of Dominion to celebrate the 10th anniversary of Dominion :D
It could try to sum up Dominion in a card!

Castle Builder - Action, $6
You may play an Action card from your hand. You may play any number of Treasure cards from your hand. You may buy a card. Discard your hand. Draw until you have five cards in hand.

Or, to put it another way: Take a free turn!

Just have to play an action builder first, I guess.
Not really a free turn, because your cards are still in play and you can't play them again. It's more like a Black-Market-from-the-supply plus a pseudo-self-Minion. If you're drawing your deck, Castle Builder/Tactician would function about the same as Black Market/Tactician.
Title: Re: Speculation Regarding Future Knights Cards
Post by: whaleyland on August 21, 2012, 04:49:19 pm
All this talk about Castle Builder gets me wanting a Secret History of the early development of the game, a prequel to the Secret History of Dominion. I haven't read the early history of the game under the name Castle Builder, but I would love to include some of that info in my Dominion Annotated Rules.
Title: Re: Speculation Regarding Future Knights Cards
Post by: werothegreat on August 21, 2012, 04:56:31 pm
Does that mean that the artists who drew the individual knights just chose arbitrary features, or did they have any information regarding the associated namesake?
Two people didn't want to be illustrated, and two couldn't really be illustrated. The other six submitted pictures of themselves. Of those, five were actually illustrated; you are not recognizing Sir Vander in the distance and under that helmet.

Dame Anna and Dame Natalie look very very much like they were illustrated from a photo.
Title: Re: Speculation Regarding Future Knights Cards
Post by: Donald X. on August 21, 2012, 05:17:15 pm
Dame Anna and Dame Natalie look very very much like they were illustrated from a photo.
Dama Anna was. Dame Natalie is 3.
Title: Re: Speculation Regarding Future Knights Cards
Post by: eHalcyon on August 21, 2012, 05:46:18 pm
Dame Anna and Dame Natalie look very very much like they were illustrated from a photo.
Dama Anna was. Dame Natalie is 3.

So young and already knighted... What am I doing with my life?
Title: Re: Speculation Regarding Future Knights Cards
Post by: Varsinor on August 22, 2012, 08:41:17 am
Just a little nitpick on the Catan stuff: 8)

This reasoning is based on the Catan Card Game by KOSMOS, which every Christmas released a new Knight card based on someone associated with the development of the Cataniverse in-house that was afterward made available publicly as a print-and-play card.

The special promo cards for the old card game until 2009 weren't exactly Catanian Knights - in fact, none of them was. Some were action cards, some were (non-knight) units. See here for a complete list (in German): http://www.catan.de/spiele-archiv/catan-kartenspiel/sonderkarten.html

I believe they stopped this program in 2011 with the release of Rivals of Catan (or rather Princes of Catan), which rebooted the series and provided many opportunities to place said people in the game from the get-go.

No, there are still special promo cards for the new Rivals game (at least) once per year (again different card types) - starting in 2010. Here is the list (in German): http://www.catan.de/catan-spiele/fuersten-von-catan/sonderkarten.html