Dominion Strategy Forum

Dominion => Adventures Previews => Empires Previews => Dominion: Nocturne Previews => Dominion: Renaissance Previews => Dominion General Discussion => Dark Ages Previews => Topic started by: engineer on August 19, 2012, 07:13:34 pm

Title: The trash bounce
Post by: engineer on August 19, 2012, 07:13:34 pm
I want to coin a new term: the "trash bounce."  This refers to any situation where you trash a card and retrieve it from the trash in the same turn. 

The most obvious trash bounce strategy is throne room/graverobber. You TR the GR, using it to trash bounce another GR for a province -- trash the second GR for the province on the first play, and then pick up the trashed GR on the second play.

Can anybody come up with other strategies that use a trash bounce?
Title: Re: The trash bounce
Post by: Robz888 on August 19, 2012, 07:31:00 pm
We should call it "garbage in, garbage out."
Title: Re: The trash bounce
Post by: werothegreat on August 19, 2012, 09:53:22 pm
We should call it "garbage in, garbage out."

Is that like "tides go in, tides go out"?
Title: Re: The trash bounce
Post by: poggydude on August 19, 2012, 09:57:22 pm
you cant explain that!
Title: Re: The trash bounce
Post by: Loschmidt on August 19, 2012, 10:15:42 pm
We should call it "garbage in, garbage out."

Is that like "tides go in, tides go out"?

It's a saying, in many fields, in reference to data manipulation/statistics etc. No matter how you manipulate garbage data you'll get garbage results.

I want to coin a new term: the "trash bounce."

Can anybody come up with other strategies that use a trash bounce?

I like it. Any TfB + Fortess is a trash bounce.
Title: Re: The trash bounce
Post by: Rhombus on August 19, 2012, 11:19:03 pm
Village + Pillage + Graverobber/Rogue.
Title: Re: The trash bounce
Post by: Loschmidt on August 19, 2012, 11:43:34 pm
Village + Pillage + Graverobber/Rogue.

Works with Feast too of course. But a 3-card combo just to make a 5 gainer is probably too much effort.
Title: Re: The trash bounce
Post by: engineer on August 20, 2012, 12:12:11 am
Here's another one: TR/GR with border village.  Gain a card up to $9 and a card less than $5 by trash bouncing the BV.
Title: Re: The trash bounce
Post by: Rhombus on August 20, 2012, 12:28:17 am
Village + Pillage + Graverobber/Rogue.

Works with Feast too of course. But a 3-card combo just to make a 5 gainer is probably too much effort.

Pillage is really, really good though - and you can use any village so there's a lot of different options.  It feels like a pin, that's how strong it is (if you can play Pillage every turn).
Title: Re: The trash bounce
Post by: Loschmidt on August 20, 2012, 01:02:29 am
Village + Pillage + Graverobber/Rogue.

Works with Feast too of course. But a 3-card combo just to make a 5 gainer is probably too much effort.

Pillage is really, really good though - and you can use any village so there's a lot of different options.  It feels like a pin, that's how strong it is (if you can play Pillage every turn).

A pillage every turn is a pretty strong move, maybe not strong enough to be called a pin though. Definitely will dismantle most engines and will rip apart big money's hopes at provinces.

You'll need pretty good drawing and/or deck control to manage to play it every turn. Do you think you can set it up quickly enough and keep it in place while greening? If your opponent builds a more conventional deck and starts going for duchy while the pin is in place they might be able to still do competitively.

Hmmm....but now I remember that Pillage gives you 2 Spoils. That means you don't need to worry about building your economy, because when you activate the pin you've basically added +$6. This makes it a lot more viable than I was thinking.

Can't wait to try this idea out!
Title: Re: The trash bounce
Post by: werothegreat on August 20, 2012, 01:22:22 am
Here's another one: TR/GR with border village.  Gain a card up to $9 and a card less than $5 by trash bouncing the BV.

I don't think you get the on-gain bonus when you gain BV from the trash.  I believe we had a long, long discussion in this forum about how Gaining (with a capital G) means from the Supply.
Title: Re: The trash bounce
Post by: eHalcyon on August 20, 2012, 01:25:02 am
Here's another one: TR/GR with border village.  Gain a card up to $9 and a card less than $5 by trash bouncing the BV.

I don't think you get the on-gain bonus when you gain BV from the trash.  I believe we had a long, long discussion in this forum about how Gaining (with a capital G) means from the Supply.

That's only if the card doesn't otherwise specify.  GR specifies "gain a card from the trash."
Title: Re: The trash bounce
Post by: engineer on August 20, 2012, 01:25:32 am
Here's another one: TR/GR with border village.  Gain a card up to $9 and a card less than $5 by trash bouncing the BV.

I don't think you get the on-gain bonus when you gain BV from the trash.  I believe we had a long, long discussion in this forum about how Gaining (with a capital G) means from the Supply.

Wait, what?  Why?  I mean, I can understand how masquerade doesn't count as a gain, but why isn't gaining from the trash considered Gaining?  That's certainly not intuitive to me...
Title: Re: The trash bounce
Post by: Young Nick on August 20, 2012, 01:39:19 am
Thief: The OG Trash Bounce.
Title: Re: The trash bounce
Post by: Loschmidt on August 20, 2012, 01:45:39 am
Here's another one: TR/GR with border village.  Gain a card up to $9 and a card less than $5 by trash bouncing the BV.

I don't think you get the on-gain bonus when you gain BV from the trash.  I believe we had a long, long discussion in this forum about how Gaining (with a capital G) means from the Supply.

????!???!?!?!

I think maybe you're confused. I remember there was a long, long discussion that one could only Gain from the supply unless specifically told to do otherwise. So you can't Mine a copper into a spoils, or even Mint a spoils, or workshop a Madman, or normally gain anything from the trash in any way. But with Grave Robber you can gain from the Trash and Border Village has an on-gain effect that will trigger. But you won't be able to gain the free BV card from the Trash only from the supply.
Title: Re: The trash bounce
Post by: rinkworks on August 20, 2012, 09:57:57 am
Here's another one: TR/GR with border village.  Gain a card up to $9 and a card less than $5 by trash bouncing the BV.

I don't think you get the on-gain bonus when you gain BV from the trash.  I believe we had a long, long discussion in this forum about how Gaining (with a capital G) means from the Supply.

????!???!?!?!

I think maybe you're confused. I remember there was a long, long discussion that one could only Gain from the supply unless specifically told to do otherwise. So you can't Mine a copper into a spoils, or even Mint a spoils, or workshop a Madman, or normally gain anything from the trash in any way. But with Grave Robber you can gain from the Trash and Border Village has an on-gain effect that will trigger. But you won't be able to gain the free BV card from the Trash only from the supply.

Yeah.  And in fact trash-gaining happened before now.  If you use Thief or Noble Brigand to steal treasures, you're technically gaining them from the trash, and that gain works like any other gain in that you can reveal Watchtower (to top-deck or trash them again).  And stolen IGGs will cause Curses to be given out, etc.
Title: Re: The trash bounce
Post by: werothegreat on August 20, 2012, 10:14:44 am
You learn something new every day.
Title: Re: The trash bounce
Post by: bozzball on August 20, 2012, 10:17:18 am
I think the most obvious trash bounce is any trasher + Fortress.