(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/scout.jpg) | #43 ▼1 Scout (Intrigue) Weighted Average: 42.43 ▼3.31 / Median: 43 ▼4.5 / Mode: 43 ▼6 / Standard Deviation: 1.6 ▲3.7 Highest Rank(s): #34 (1x), #37 (1x), #38 (1x) / Lowest Rank(s): #43 (37x) Scout is the worst $4 card. Even though it wasn't last the last time, there's no surprise here. With very few outliers and more than the half voting it last, its deviation is by far the lowest of all $4 cards. The discussions about this card in the last months exposed its weakness. Scout has its uses. You don't need to spend an action, but it isn't a cantrip, so it really can hurt your deck. If you're massively greening this can be nice as it makes your next turn better, but is still not good. The best uses are: making Crossroads way better, it has a nice synergy with Wishing Well (making it a cheap Lab) and of course it's great with dual-type-victory cards like Harem, Great Hall and Nobles, making Scout a Lab or even better. There might be more edge cases when Scout shines, but even when it shines you often do better skipping Scout, because you waste a turn marginally improving your deck. |
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/thief.jpg) | #42 ▲1 Thief (Base) Weighted Average: 41.32 ▼0.1 / Median: 42 =0 / Mode: 42 ▲1 / Standard Deviation: 2.4 =0 Highest Rank(s): #30 (1x), #33 (1x), #34 (1x) / Lowest Rank(s): #43 (16x) Thief went up a rank, but the points nearly stayed the same. So, Thief is still as bad as before. And there's no doubt. It has the second lowest deviation as it was voted last or second last by a third of all players. An attack on such a low position may seem strange, but Thief has the big problem helping your opponent in the early game. Its a free trasher for your opponent and even later it's so risky hitting the Coppers of your opponent. Its only use may be in thin Chapel decks or if you manage to play it multiple times per turn. And it gets better in 3- or 4-player games, where you can minimize the risk of getting nothing and hitting Coppers. It can be a nice counter against a Ill-Gotten-Gains rush dealing out curses with it and got a boost in Hinterlands because of Fool's Gold too, but it is still swingy and still a bad card. You don't want it early and in the later game it's almost never worth a buy. |
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/coppersmith.jpg) | #41 =0 Coppersmith (Intrigue) Weighted Average: 39.14 ▼0.87 / Median: 40 ▼1 / Mode: 41 =0 / Standard Deviation: 3.7 ▲2.5 Highest Rank(s): #22 (1x), #24 (1x), #31 (1x) / Lowest Rank(s): #43 (4x) Coppersmith is the third last card with 18 players ranking it there. It has a really low deviation with a much higher consensus this time and yet it has two big outliers. It has a big lead over Thief and Scout, but it still lost nearly one point. Yes, Coppersmith is very hard to rank, because it's either clearly the worst card on the board or it's very dominating. As a opener you may get to $6 or even $8, but you also can draw only one Copper, so it's very swingy as a opener and gets worse later. On the other hand King's Court + Coppersmith can become brutal and it has some nice synergy with Apothecary, Counting House and Tactician. The cases where it shines may occur more rarely than with any other card, but then it's a must-buy. |
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/talisman.jpg) | #40 =0 Talisman (Prosperity) Weighted Average: 37.00 ▲0.84 / Median: 37 ▲1.5 / Mode: 36 ▲4 / Standard Deviation: 4.7 ▼0.5 Highest Rank(s): #16 (1x), #17 (1x), #29 (1x) / Lowest Rank(s): #42 (5x) Talisman has still a low deviation and another big lead over the previous card. No-one ranked it last, but 5 people ranked it second last and 10 people ranked it on #36. The much higher mode and the two big outliers led to an increase of nearly one point, but it is still on the same rank. There are very few cards for $4, you want in masses. Silk Road and Gardens may be a exception, but Talisman doesn't work with victory cards. So there are even less cards you want for free with Talisman. Fool's Gold, Caravan and in some cases Throne Room, Conspirator and Tournament came to my mind being the only cards which makes Talisman a good buy, especially as a opener. You can build a Village + Smithy/Envoy quicker too, but this is rarely worth a Talisman buy since you need money too. But it shines especially with cost reducers like Quarry, Bridge and especially Highway. Play Highway, play Talisman, buy Highway, get one for free, that's nice. Talisman is also nice for a quick 3-pile ending. This works well with Bishop for example: get many Talismans and then Bishops, trash Talismans for 3VP and try to three-pile. But Talisman also can hurt very badly since the free extra card is not optional, so only buy Talisman if you really want cheap card in masses. And don't forget: if you're buying more expensive cards you've spent $4 for a Copper. |
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/spy.jpg) | #39 ▼6 Spy (Base) Weighted Average: 36.24 ▼4.07 / Median: 37 ▼5 / Mode: 38 ▼7 / Standard Deviation: 3.6 ▲3.1 Highest Rank(s): #27 (1x), #29 (1x), #30 (2x) / Lowest Rank(s): #42 (2x), #43 (1x) What a big drop! We're now in a region where all the cards are really close together, but it still lost 4 points and the consensus is much higher this time, it has even the third least deviation. It was 12 times on #38 and this time had really no big outliers. An attack that is a cantrip, that seems nice at the first look. But Spy is an attack with a pretty bad attack and little benefit. It's very swingy as you can discard your victory card (or even your Tunnel) and discard the only Witch of your opponent, but you can hit a victory card of your opponent too that you put back. That's no change for your opponent and he even may use that additional info for the next turn. You can add a Spy in your drawing engine if you have a buy and money left, but is really rarely worth a buy. It's a cantrip that doesn't hurt your engine and can really shine in a Scrying Pool+Jester engine (or any other engine that takes profit from knowing the top card of the opponent's deck), but the benefit it gives you is marginal, similar to Scout. If we already mentioned cards with different costs (Warehouse and Cellar), the way better Cartographer comes into my mind. |
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/treasuremap.jpg) | #38 ▼6 Treasure Map (Seaside) Weighted Average: 35.35 ▼3.78 / Median: 36 ▼4.5 / Mode: 33 ▼2 / Standard Deviation: 6.5 ▲2.3 Highest Rank(s): #6 (1x), #14 (1x), #18 (1x) / Lowest Rank(s): #39 (3x), #40 (1x), #42 (1x) Another big drop of 6 ranks and nearly 4 points. The standard deviation is now higher, but still the consensus is much higher compared to last time. Treasure Map was on #33 11 times and has a few big outliers. In the unweighted ranking it would be on #37; newer players ranked it higher. Treasure Map's power is undeniable. An early enabling can already decide a game. But you can hardly call it strategy going for Treasure Map. You really need enablers for that, like Warehouse, Chapel, Tactician or the Watchtower/Talisman combo. If you go for Treasure Map without such enablers, you totally rely on your luck. And losing against a totally luck-based enabling can really be frustrating. |
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/pirateship.jpg) | #37 ▼3 Pirate Ship (Seaside) Weighted Average: 35.28 ▼2.57 / Median: 36 ▼3 / Mode: 40 ▼7 / Standard Deviation: 7.5 ▲1.1 Highest Rank(s): #5 (2x), #22 (2x) / Lowest Rank(s): #42 (3x) Pirate Ship is only 0.07 points higher than Treasure Map and has an even higher deviation, but still gains consensus and there will be more cards with much higher deviation. It wasn't even last and got two big outliers on #5, but got many bad ranks with 8 votes on #40. In the unweighted ranking it would be on #36, so this is another card that newer players seem to rank higher. There's the next attack that trashes treasures. This time it's not the best one anymore. The high ranks may result from players mainly playing 3- or 4-player games where Pirate Ships can be devastating. In 2-player games it's too slow most of the times. So, with Pirate Ship you really want to buy as many as you can, so you can play them multiple times, and with Throne Room or King's Court this card is really great. |
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/navigator.jpg) | #36 ▲1 Navigator (Seaside) Weighted Average: 35.18 ▼0.62 / Median: 36 ▼1 / Mode: 40 ▼8 / Standard Deviation: 4.8 ▲0.9 Highest Rank(s): #18 (1x), #19 (1x), #26 (1x) / Lowest Rank(s): #42 (2x), #43 (2x) Navigator went up a rank, but still lost points. It was a very close fight for #36 with a lead of 0.10 points over Pirate Ship and 0.17 points over Treasure Map. It has also 2 last places and there's only one card with at least one last place left. It has relatively high consensus and it was voted 8 times on #40. In the unweighted ranking it would be on #38; newer players seem to underrate it. Scout is at least non-terminal and therefore nice for Wishing Well to draw the top-decked cards. Top-decking the next 5 cards in a specific order is only nice if you have still an action left to draw a few of them. Because if you don't do that, you draw all 5 cards no matter in what order you put them back. The discarding option is nice to minimize shuffle luck and to get a half Chancellor effect, but still it is terminal and most of the time there are better terminal cards on the board. At least it gives you $2. The best use still may be to enable Tunnel's reaction. |
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/feast.jpg) | #35 ▼4 Feast (Base) Weighted Average: 34.00 ▼3.75 / Median: 35 ▼3.5 / Mode: 36 =0 / Standard Deviation: 5.6 ▲2.6 Highest Rank(s): #13 (1x), #20 (1x), #23 (1x) / Lowest Rank(s): #41 (3x) Feast is another card with a big drop. It lost 4 ranks and nearly 4 points too. It's the next card with a much higher consensus this time with only one outlier. It's the first card which wasn't neither last nor second last. In the unweighted ranking this would be on #34, another card that newer players seem to overrate a little bit. Feast basically does nothing but being a one-shot balancing bad shuffle luck, especially at the start. If you really want a specific $5 card and have a 4/3 opening you can open with Feast and can be sure to get that $5 card soon. It also can be used with Throne Room and King's Court to gain multiple $5 cards. It's only other use is gaining Duchies, especially in Duke games. |
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/bureaucrat.jpg) | #34 ▲5 Bureaucrat (Base) Weighted Average: 33.77 ▲1.98 / Median: 34 ▲3 / Mode: 34 ▲5 / Standard Deviation: 6.2 ▼0.9 Highest Rank(s): #11 (1x), #16 (1x), #18 (1x) / Lowest Rank(s): #43 (3x) It was very close, but Bureaucrat is better than Feast. It went up 5 ranks and 2 points, but is one of the first cards with higher deviation too. Last time it hadn't one vote above #20, now it has 3 votes. On the other side it's the last card with a last place; it has even 3 last places. It was voted on #34 7 times. In the unweighted ranking this card would be on #35, it's underrated by newer players. The attack of Bureaucrat is weak. Your opponent loses one card that he don't need anyway for him getting another 4 card hand in the next turn. And he might even be able to counter that easily by playing Farming Village for example. The attack gets better in multiplayer games, especially if there are dual-type victory cards like Nobles or Harem on the board. The benefit on the other side still isn't good either. Top-decked silvers are nice, especially in the beginning and you can get to $8 with 4 silvers too, but it's not easy. So it seems Bureaucrat is nice where you don't want to get to $8 and Silver is a good card, like in Duke / Silk Road and especially Gardens games, but then Bureaucrat is a good counter too. And you can play your Bureaucrat less frequently if your deck is already flooded with silvers. Bureacrat + Big Money is not bad on the other side as it doesn't seem to have synergies with other cards. |
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/nomad-camp.jpg) | #33 ▲3 Nomad Camp (Hinterlands) Weighted Average: 33.38 ▲0.54 / Median: 34 ▼0.5 / Mode: 35 ▼3 / Standard Deviation: 4.7 ▲0.6 Highest Rank(s): #16 (1x), #22 (1x), #25 (1x) / Lowest Rank(s): #40 (5x) Nomad Camp is the first card which wasn't voted in the Bottom 3 with 5 votes on #40. It only has a slightly better average, but still managed to go up 3 ranks. It was voted on #35 10 times. Woodcutter was the third worst $3 card. Here we have a Woodcutter with a on-buy top-deck ability. Is it worth costing $1 more? And how can it be that it ranks higher than Woodcutter? IMO there are only 2-3 reasons for that. You have a high chance to get a $5 card on turn 2 even with a 4/3 opening (so Witch / Monad Camp is on #86 and Nomad Camp / Trading Post at #91 of the best openings). Similar to that it is nice you need the +Buy either way and need multiple cheap cards as fast you can. But the only opening which is strong without $5s is IMO Nomad Camp / Fool's Gold / Fool's Gold on #339 of the best openings. The last reason is if you're really unlucky in the late game and only get $4 and want to maximize the chances to hit $8 in the next turn. Beside of that it's only an expensive Woodcutter. |
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/walled-village.jpg) | #32 ▲3 Walled Village (Promo) Weighted Average: 30.30 ▲2.56 / Median: 31 ▲1.5 / Mode: 29 ▲1 / Standard Deviation: 6.1 ▼1.4 Highest Rank(s): #17 (2x), #18 (1x) / Lowest Rank(s): #39 (2x), #41 (2x) A big jump of over 3 points and Walled Village seems to leave the "really bad cards area". It went up 3 ranks and also two and a half points. But it also loses consensus with a much higher deviation this time. It was on #29 8 times. In the unweighted ranking it would be on #31. It is the worst of the four $4 villages. Why? Its only ability is top deck it if you weren't able to use both actions. So this is nice if you have only 2-3 terminal actions and really want to play them each time without taking the risk of colliding. That's especially useful with Torturer. The only reason opening with Walled Village could be if there's a $3 key card and you want a second one later too. Because of that Walled Village / Masquerade and Walled Village / Ambassador are Level 4 openings rankings on #87 ▲4 and #95 ▲19 on Councilroom respectively. In all other cases it is the same as the normal village. |
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/noble-brigand.jpg) | #31 ▲7 Noble Brigand (Hinterlands) Weighted Average: 30.19 ▲5.52 / Median: 31 ▲5.5 / Mode: 29 ▲11 / Standard Deviation: 6.1 ▼0.5 Highest Rank(s): #7 (1x), #11 (1x), #16 (2x) / Lowest Rank(s): #41 (2x), #42 (1x) It was close, but Noble Brigand is better than Walled Village. And it's another Hinterlands card with a huge boost. It went up 7 ranks and 5.5 points. The mode is even 11 points better (8 times on #29). Not all players noticed the boost in power, so the deviation went up a little bit. In the unweighted ranking it would be on #32. Noble Brigand is the better Thief on many boards. It hasn't the disadvantage of trashing the opponents Coppers, making it a better opener. It even attacks on-buy. It deals out Coppers too, which is nice playing against no-treasure decks. And it gives $1 too, so you have at least an immediate benefit. But it's worse in Colony games as it cannot steal Platinum, it cannot steal Ill-Gotten-Gains like Thief and cannot steal other Kingdom treasure cards. And most important: it's still too slow and doesn't hurt enough if you can't play one nearly each turn. Noble Brigand + Big Money is not that bad on weak boards and a good counter to many strategies. |
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/remodel.jpg) | #30 ▼1 Remodel (Base) Weighted Average: 28.16 ▼3.08 / Median: 29 ▼6 / Mode: 32 ▼10 / Standard Deviation: 6.4 ▲2.7 Highest Rank(s): #8 (1x), #12 (1x), #13 (1x) / Lowest Rank(s): #36 (2x), #37 (1x), #39 (1x) Remodel is the next card with a much higher consensus this time. It has still a solid lead over Walled Village, but it loses 3 points and even 10 points in mode. After Remodel is the biggest gap in this list, so I included it in the bottom third. Remodel introduced us to the cards that trash for a better card. As a opener it has big problems trashing the Coppers, because you need either good $2 cards on the board you want in masses like Fool's Gold (Remodel / Fool's Gold is on #168 of the best openings) or Lighthouse or you need to remodel in 2 steps (Estate to Silver or another $3-$4 card) which is not really a good idea. But Remodel is good in the later game. Just remodel your money in the respective victory card. It seems some of you take the opener qualities more into account while others did it vice versa. |
another card that newer players seem to overrate a little bit.I have the opposite impression. I completely ignored feast when I started Dominion.
Feast is just terrible. I may have been one of those 41s. Compare feast to, say, horse traders, which may as well read, "+1 buy. Don't trash this card. Gain a card costing up to 5. Or do other cool things, your choice. Oh, by the way, sweet reaction if there's attacks." Now, feast has its uses (it's no scout), and it goes well with king's court, but it's a bad card.Of course, Horse traders is a very good card. But unlike feast, HT gain a 5$ card in your buy phase. With Feast, you may buy a $2/$3/$4 during your buy phase and gain a 5$ with feast.
The second is Bureaucrat. I had it second bottom. Can someone please tell me the kind of deck that benefits from Bureaucrat, and why they're common enough and boosted enough by Bureaucrat, that it should be above... just about everything it is except Scout? It's not good in engines - if you're running an engine, there's a good chance your opponent is too, so the attack is probably doing very little, and the Silver on deck isn't really helpful. Big Money? It's too slow. It's a BM enabler, but not an especially good one (pre-edit: I see it actually beats BMU something like 60/30, which is better than I imagined). Honestly, it just seems to never really fit into a deck.Just everything where you really want Silvers. Gardens, Silk Roads, Dukes for first. Cursers without trashing second. There are not many cards that gain you Silver, so usually there is no alternative for this functions on these boards. And you gain it on top, which is nice especially in bloated decks, and a little attack as bonus.
I have two big disagreements on this list. First is Noble Brigand, which shark bait already nailed. Noble Brigand + Big Money is not 'not that bad'. It's one of the best $4 Big Money enablers, especially against other BM decks. The fact it gives +$1 also helps, as it's not just a meh attack.
The second is Bureaucrat. I had it second bottom. Can someone please tell me the kind of deck that benefits from Bureaucrat, and why they're common enough and boosted enough by Bureaucrat, that it should be above... just about everything it is except Scout? It's not good in engines - if you're running an engine, there's a good chance your opponent is too, so the attack is probably doing very little, and the Silver on deck isn't really helpful. Big Money? It's too slow. It's a BM enabler, but not an especially good one (pre-edit: I see it actually beats BMU something like 60/30, which is better than I imagined). Honestly, it just seems to never really fit into a deck.
The only other big-ish disagreements I had were Treasure Map (it's very good if you can enable it, and those situations are less rare than many people imagine. Yes it's awful on most boards, but it's great on some), and to a lesser degree Thief and Pirate Ship - because they're good in 3+ player.
Don't quote me...
I think people underestimate the easy "buy a couple bureaucrats, green obscenely early" strategy. It's not great, but it's an OK big money strategy in a pinch. With something like duchess or silk road on the board and nothing "good," it's probably better than envoy + big money? Don't quote me...
Assuming both ehunt and chwhite are mixing up Duchess and Duke? Color me confused otherwise.
I guess someone needs to explain Bureaucrat/Duchess to me then, because I'm not seeing how that strategy is even intended to work, never mind how it would actually come close to being decent. Buy lots of Duchies.. to get lots of Duchess.. to get to Province..? I'm so confused.This is mostly with duke, silk roads or gardens on the board I presume. If not, it would have to be a REALLY weak board..
I guess someone needs to explain Bureaucrat/Duchess to me then, because I'm not seeing how that strategy is even intended to work, never mind how it would actually come close to being decent. Buy lots of Duchies.. to get lots of Duchess.. to get to Province..? I'm so confused.
i post this every 3 months on the dominion strategy forum, but walled village + ambassador is a pretty solid opening, one of the few village openings that's worth it.Not enough, I still wasn't aware.
Nomad Camp (it's better than Walled Village, just absurd to say otherwise)
Nomad Camp (it's better than Walled Village, just absurd to say otherwise)
How can Nomad Camp be better than Walled Village if Village is better than Woodcutter?
I'd take a plain village over a nomad camp 80% of the time.
I'd take a plain village over a nomad camp 80% of the time.
I'd take a plain village over a nomad camp 80% of the time.
You certainly wouldn't on Turns 1, and 2, where Nomad Camp is often a good play; not all the time, but sometimes. Walled Village is only an option if an Action engine is viable, and if there are absolutely no other villages.
I'd take a plain village over a nomad camp 80% of the time.
You certainly wouldn't on Turns 1, and 2, where Nomad Camp is often a good play; not all the time, but sometimes. Walled Village is only an option if an Action engine is viable, and if there are absolutely no other villages.
Nomad Camp is so rarely the right play early too. Unless you're going for massing $2 cards or Copper, you don't have anything to do with the +buy anyway.
And how did Navigator beat Feast? That's nonsense.Absolutely not. I really don't understand why navigator is so high, it seems as bad as chancellor for me… And I think I even buy chancellor more often. There are a lot of more interesting terminal actions-silver for 4$ : Bridge, monument, militia, curpurse, …
And how did Navigator beat Feast? That's nonsense.Absolutely not. I really don't understand why navigator is so high, it seems as bad as chancellor for me… And I think I even buy chancellor more often. There are a lot of more interesting terminal actions-silver for 4$ : Bridge, monument, militia, curpurse, …
On the other side, feast is only a one shot so it doesn't conflict with these actions, and is pretty good for engines which doesn't really want silvers (minion…).
WV < FV = WV
I'd take a plain village over a nomad camp 80% of the time.
You certainly wouldn't on Turns 1, and 2, where Nomad Camp is often a good play; not all the time, but sometimes. Walled Village is only an option if an Action engine is viable, and if there are absolutely no other villages.
Nomad Camp is so rarely the right play early too. Unless you're going for massing $2 cards or Copper, you don't have anything to do with the +buy anyway.
Well, usually when you buy it Turn 1, it's because you hope to buy a critical $5 before the first reshuffle. There are quite a few $5s--Witch, Mountebank, IGG, Hunting Party, to name a few--where this is usually worth it.
And how did Navigator beat Feast? That's nonsense.Absolutely not. I really don't understand why navigator is so high, it seems as bad as chancellor for me… And I think I even buy chancellor more often. There are a lot of more interesting terminal actions-silver for 4$ : Bridge, monument, militia, curpurse, …
On the other side, feast is only a one shot so it doesn't conflict with these actions, and is pretty good for engines which doesn't really want silvers (minion…).
What about Scout + Baron, Tournament or Explorer (or if there are similar style cards in the expansions to come), pairing off cards with what you need to make the cards work?
Or is this considered one of the "niche" uses of Scout?
Walled Village is only an option if an Action engine is viable, and if there are absolutely no other villages.
My bottom 5 cards, btw, were: Scout, Thief, Coppersmith, Pirate Ship, Feast. I think I stand by all those as worse than Talisman and Spy, and I loathe Talisman and Spy. And how did Navigator beat Feast? That's nonsense.
And how did Navigator beat Feast? That's nonsense.Absolutely not. I really don't understand why navigator is so high, it seems as bad as chancellor for me… And I think I even buy chancellor more often. There are a lot of more interesting terminal actions-silver for 4$ : Bridge, monument, militia, curpurse, …
On the other side, feast is only a one shot so it doesn't conflict with these actions, and is pretty good for engines which doesn't really want silvers (minion…).
I think the niche is more or less Great Hall, Harems, Nobles.
* Duke games (WW beat me with a surprisingly strong Feast-powered Duke rush not that long ago)
I think people hate Walled Village for the same reason I hate Cellar.
Warehouse exists, Cellar is worse?
Fishing Village/Worker's Village/etc. exists, Walled Village is worse?
Walled Village is only an option if an Action engine is viable, and if there are absolutely no other villages.
Massive untruth.
What is true is that Walled Village has the weakest bonus of the $4 Villages by far. But even that is not absolute: I will prefer Walled Village to Farming, Worker's, and Mining in Torturer games, where the top-decking is really useful for lining up an early double-Torturer hit. Sometimes Walled Village's bonus is also useful in other decks as well, especially those with a few powerful terminals and no cantrips.
Torturer is admittedly the only consistent case where it's competitive with the other $4 Villages- but it's a big case! And you also need to take into account the cheaper Villages too, because in many engine decks you will be buying them for $4. If I have $4 and want Village, well Walled Village is strictly better (even if by only a tiny amount). And it's pretty frequently preferable to Shanty Town and Native Village as well. As for the more expensive Villages... well I'll never spend $5 on a Walled Village when Bazaar is around (barring cases like HoP/Fairgrounds). But what if I only have $4, and need a Village?
Look, I'll agree that on average Walled Village is the worst Village. But it's not always the worst Village, and even so Villages are so important to the game that it is madness to have even a bad Village that low.
I think people hate Walled Village for the same reason I hate Cellar.
Warehouse exists, Cellar is worse?
Fishing Village/Worker's Village/etc. exists, Walled Village is worse?
Walled villlage is like paying 1 extra for a village. The 'bonus'? You can top deck it but if you top deck it you didn't really do what you wanted to do with that village so the 'bonus' is more like adding salt to the wound
What about Scout + Baron, Tournament or Explorer (or if there are similar style cards in the expansions to come), pairing off cards with what you need to make the cards work?
I think people hate Walled Village for the same reason I hate Cellar.
Warehouse exists, Cellar is worse?
Fishing Village/Worker's Village/etc. exists, Walled Village is worse?
Sure you may rarely want Walled Village when there are other $4 villages on the board, but you still want it more often than all the other cards on this list.
Sure you may rarely want Walled Village when there are other $4 villages on the board, but you still want it more often than all the other cards on this list.
Not me. I want Nomad Camp more.
And how did Navigator beat Feast? That's nonsense.Absolutely not. I really don't understand why navigator is so high, it seems as bad as chancellor for me… And I think I even buy chancellor more often. There are a lot of more interesting terminal actions-silver for 4$ : Bridge, monument, militia, curpurse, …
On the other side, feast is only a one shot so it doesn't conflict with these actions, and is pretty good for engines which doesn't really want silvers (minion…).
Feast still conflicts with these actions because you would have to buy the Feast instead of them. The thing is that if there's Monument or Militia, you're not going to open Navigator or Feast. Navigator, however, is at least a decent opening some of the time, when the typically stronger openings are not available.
http://councilroom.com/win_weighted_accum_turn.html?cards=scout%2C%20thief%2C%20coppersmith%2C%20talisman%2C%20spy%2C%20treasure%20map%2C%20pirate%20ship%2C%20navigator%2C%20feast%2C%20bureaucrat%2C%20nomad%20camp%2C%20walled%20village%2C%20noble%20brigand%2C%20remodel
Notice that Navigator is the only card on this list that has a positive winrate on turn 1-2. (Also note that Walled Village is the only other one that is positive at any point before turn 25, for all the Walled Village haters.)
* Coppersmith is underrated.
* Oh, yeah, Treasure Map and Pirate Ship. They suck.
The bolded part is probably the most practical use of this card. If you are going to play BM+ 2-3X, especially if that X is going to be a non-drawer, then its pretty practical to own this card. I mean you are essentially giving up a silver to purchase something to avoid (a good chunk of) terminal clashing. Just because it gives +actions, does not mean it should be used in a similar fashion. I'm just not sure how often these cases are (where there are strong terminals, a reason to purchase this at $4 and cantrips not worth purchasing).Walled Village is only an option if an Action engine is viable, and if there are absolutely no other villages.
Massive untruth.
What is true is that Walled Village has the weakest bonus of the $4 Villages by far. But even that is not absolute: I will prefer Walled Village to Farming, Worker's, and Mining in Torturer games, where the top-decking is really useful for lining up an early double-Torturer hit. Sometimes Walled Village's bonus is also useful in other decks as well, especially those with a few powerful terminals and no cantrips.
Torturer is admittedly the only consistent case where it's competitive with the other $4 Villages- but it's a big case! And you also need to take into account the cheaper Villages too, because in many engine decks you will be buying them for $4. If I have $4 and want Village, well Walled Village is strictly better (even if by only a tiny amount). And it's pretty frequently preferable to Shanty Town and Native Village as well. As for the more expensive Villages... well I'll never spend $5 on a Walled Village when Bazaar is around (barring cases like HoP/Fairgrounds). But what if I only have $4, and need a Village?
Look, I'll agree that on average Walled Village is the worst Village. But it's not always the worst Village, and even so Villages are so important to the game that it is madness to have even a bad Village that low.
Scout is not as harmful of a card to have in your deck as thief, under the vast majority of circumstances. But the circumstances you want thief in are way more plentiful than those you want scout in, and when you do want one or the other, thief tends to do more for you. Yeah, they're both terrible.
I actually think Pirate Ship is worse 2-player than thief, though both are dreadful.
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/ironworks.jpg) | #29 ▲1 Ironworks (Intrigue) Weighted Average: 23.86 ▲2.06 / Median: 25 ▲2.5 / Mode: 21 ▲9 / Standard Deviation: 7.7 ▲0.9 Highest Rank(s): #7 (3x) / Lowest Rank(s): #36 (3x), #38 (1x), #42 (1x) Ironworks is the next card after a big 4.3 point gap. This means it's the worst card of the mediocre ones. The average being more than 5 points higher than the actual rank shows also that the next cards are very close together and their ranks are somewhat debatable. Ironworks has some really high outliers with 5 times in the Top 10. Ironworks is the superior Workshop which was pretty low on the $3 list. Does it deserve a higher rating on the $4 list? The biggest bonus for getting a lot of wanted action cards like Caravan is: Ironworks is non-terminal. So you can get Ironworks with Ironworks and then quickly get Caravans or other $4 cards. Being an Intrigue card it also combos nice with dual-type cards, so getting Great Halls or Islands makes Ironworks a cantrip. And it also works better in Gardens or Silk Road games for getting an additional card and increasing the probability getting to $4. But it lacks the same problem as Workshop: How many $4 cards do you want? So many times Ironworks is skippable. |
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/spice-merchant.jpg) | #28 ▼6 Spice Merchant (Hinterlands) Weighted Average: 23.65 ▼2.51 / Median: 26 ▼6 / Mode: 13 ▲1 / Standard Deviation: 9.2 ▼0.3 Highest Rank(s): #5 (1x), #6 (1x), #9 (1x) / Lowest Rank(s): #37 (2x), #41 (2x) Spice Merchant has only a 0.2 point lead over Ironworks and is the first Hinterlands card with a significant drop. It lost 6 ranks and 2.5 points and has still a high mode (7 times on #13). It's also the card with the second highest deviation, even higher than last time. Most of you either voted it somewhere in the Tens or somewhere in the Thirties. Spice Merchant is a very flexible trasher and the comparism to Moneylender is obvious. It produces less money for the cost of an additional buy. It can really shine if you want a non-terminal trasher for example in combination with Minions (its option +2 cards, +1 action basically restores the hand size) and if there's no other +Buy and you really need one. It's therefore more flexible (not limited to Copper and two options to choose from) but a slower opener as it's harder to get to $5 early on. It may be still useful later on, but it can lead to very hard decisions if you really want to trash that Silver. Spice Merchant / Ambassador is the #19 best opening (and the third best Ambassador opening), because you can trash coppers you get from your oponnent and still play your Ambassador with a full hand (Spice Merchant / Masquerade is on #47). |
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/trader.jpg) | #27 =0 Trader (Hinterlands) Weighted Average: 22.77 ▲1.52 / Median: 23 ▲2.5 / Mode: 29 ▲4 / Standard Deviation: 7.8 ▲1.3 Highest Rank(s): #5 (2x), #6 (1x) / Lowest Rank(s): #34 (1x), #37 (1x), #42 (1x) Trader stayed were it was. But it still went up 1.5 points and has a much higher consensus now. Trader is - like all Reaction cards - very situational. It's Silver gaining defense is mostly stronger than Watchtower's trashing, so you have to think twice if you really want to play that Curse-giving attack or another card that deals out junk and give your opponent a free Silver, especially with Mountebank on the board for 2 Silvers. Trader is a good opener in non-Colony Big Money games too, so you can trash Estates for 2 Silvers. It's also good with Gardens, eventually trashing a Silver to 3 Silvers. But in many other boards Trader is simply a no-go. |
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/quarry.jpg) | #26 ▼2 Quarry (Prosperity) Weighted Average: 22.57 ▲0.85 / Median: 24 =0 / Mode: 24 =0 / Standard Deviation: 7.7 ▼0.2 Highest Rank(s): #4 (1x), #6 (1x), #8 (2x) / Lowest Rank(s): #36 (1x), #37 (1x), #39 (1x) Quarry has only a 0.2 point lead over Trader and would be one rank higher in the unweighted ranking, so newer players overrate it a bit. The stats are similar than last time, but still it lost 2 ranks. Quarry is very situational too. For action cards, this is basically a Gold you can pick up in the opening turns. So if you want many action cards and have additional buys too, Quarry is your card to go for, for example with Goons. But in the later game when you picking up victory cards, you wish this weren't only a Copper. Quarry / Ambassador is the #80 best opening, both good cards for building an engine. |
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/island.jpg) | #25 ▼5 Island (Seaside) Weighted Average: 22.47 ▼2.23 / Median: 23 ▼2 / Mode: 23 ▼2 / Standard Deviation: 7.2 ▲1.3 Highest Rank(s): #2 (1x), #8 (2x) / Lowest Rank(s): #33 (2x), #35 (1x) Island has a really high outlier on the second place, but still lost 5 ranks and over 2 points. It has only a 0.1 point lead over Quarry and 0.3 points over Trader, it was very close here. Despite this outlier there is higher consensus on this card. It would be one rank higher in the unweighted ranking. Island does pseudo-trashing with the addition of giving additional points. So you can use it for pseudo-trashing the Estates without losing the points and later in the game you can pick it up and take your Provinces out of your deck. It can really be great with Silk Road on the board. It is rarely a game-changer, but can be a nice addition to some decks to keep them clean. And even in cursing games with no trashers, you can take Curses out of your deck for a total net of +1 point. The problem is that you don't build up your economy if you open with it and if there important cards for $5 or $6 you often have to skip Island. |
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/baron.jpg) | #24 ▲1 Baron (Intrigue) Weighted Average: 21.81 ▲1.80 / Median: 22 ▲1.5 / Mode: 28 ▲2 / Standard Deviation: 7.9 ▼0.2 Highest Rank(s): #2 (1x), #8 (2x) / Lowest Rank(s): #36 (1x), #37 (1x), #38 (1x) Baron has a really high outlier on the second place too and hase even the same best 3 ranks as Island. But it went up 1 rannks and nearly 2 points. It also would be one rank higher in the unweighted ranking. Baron is very interesting as it gives you a very high probability getting Gold early and even get a very early King's Court or Forge, but is very swingy too. If you cannot draw your Baron with an Estate, this is a dead card in the beginning, because you mostly don't want another Estate (and getting Estate for feeding your Baron is mostly no good idea). But as the game goes on, the probability decreases drawing an Estate with Baron. It has also a nice synergy with Crossroads. In the middle game Baron is most of the time no good card, but later in the game it can you net another point and gives you a +Buy too. If you're going to trash your Estates, don't buy a Baron and if you have a deck that can guarantee an Estate in every hand, like multiple Hunting Parties, Baron can very powerful. So, Baron is very situational and a rank in the middle of the $4 cards seems deserved. |
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/cutpurse.jpg) | #23 ▲3 Cutpurse (Seaside) Weighted Average: 21.73 ▲2.06 / Median: 23 ▲2.5 / Mode: 28 ▲8 / Standard Deviation: 7.3 ▲2.9 Highest Rank(s): #8 (1x), #9 (1x), #11 (1x) / Lowest Rank(s): #38 (2x), #41 (1x) Cutpurse is only 0.08 points higher than Baron, very close. If we would take the unweighted average into account, Cutpurse would be only on #26, similar to the last time unexperienced players definitely underrate it. And it has a way lower deviation this time. Cutpurse is a pretty good opener. It's a terminal Silver that can even hit harder than Militia. In the beginning where every coin is important to get to $5, Cutpurse can be really annoying. And it is even worse in games with more than 2 players where you can lose multiple Coppers in one turn. Yes, later it gets worse and worse and is nothing but a terminal Silver where you can see your opponents hand. |
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/farming-village.jpg) | #22 ▼1 Farming Village (Cornucopia) Weighted Average: 20.94 ▼0.13 / Median: 21 ▼1 / Mode: 20 =0 / Standard Deviation: 6.3 ▲0.7 Highest Rank(s): #1 (1x), #4 (1x), #8 (1x) / Lowest Rank(s): #29 (2x), #34 (2x) Its stats are similar to last time and the deviation was even lower - very low for a middle ranked card. Still it has two big outliers, one voted it even first and only 2 people voted it below #30. It would be on #21 taking the unweighted average into account. Farming Village is the third best (last time: second best) of the 4 $4 villages. The additional ability of this village is always useful and a good counter in cursing games and against top-decking attacks like Rabble. And later in the game where you are heavily greening its additional ability is very useful too. You may even pick it up if you don't necessarily need the actions and just want to have its filter ability. But in games without cursers or even good trashing, it's in the beginning often only an expensive "normal" village. Farming Village / Ambassador is the #91 best opening. |
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/throneroom.jpg) | #21 ▼3 Throne Room (Base) Weighted Average: 20.45 ▼1.73 / Median: 22 ▼3 / Mode: 27 =0 / Standard Deviation: 8.1 ▲1.0 Highest Rank(s): #2 (1x), #5 (2x) / Lowest Rank(s): #32 (1x), #35 (1x), #36 (1x) Throne Room experienced a drop of nearly 2 points and 3 ranks. The deviation decreased, but it has still some very high ranks, the highest being second. It would be one rank lower in the unweighted average. I was curious how Throne Room was going to perform as Throne Room for itself basically does nothing and is highly dependant on the other cards on the board. It can be so strong, especially with strong attacks and with card drawers too. But nothing is more depressing than drawing Throne Room with no other action card. So you need a high action density and hope to draw it with that card you really want to double. You can also use it as a pseudo-village if there's no-one available and really need one, if you double a cantrip. Throne Room can really be a game-changer, especially if you have the luck and draw it with the right cards. |
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/moneylender.jpg) | #20 ▼11 Moneylender (Base) Weighted Average: 20.39 ▼7.50 / Median: 18 ▼5.50 / Mode: 16 ▼2 / Standard Deviation: 8.8 ▼2.0 Highest Rank(s): #5 (1x), #6 (1x), #7 (3x) / Lowest Rank(s): #35 (1x), #36 (1x), #37 (1x) What a huge drop of 11 ranks and 7.5 points! Moneylender got on #20 with only 0.06 points better than Throne Room, it was a very close call. As many rated it way lower, but the other half of you still ranking it high, the deviation went up 2 points, the third highest deviation in this list. It would be one rank higher in the unweighted ranking, newer players think it's a little bit stronger. Moneylender is another card that falls into the category "Great opener, bad afterwards". It's like a Silver but with the trash ability at the same time. Like said earlier, the comparism to Spice Merchant is obvious. Moneylender is a much better opener with the deficit of not being so flexible later in the game. You mostly only want one of it (maybe only on Mountebank boards you would maybe buy a second), but this one can really fasten the game. It's less important as it used to be, but still great for building an engine with high cost cards. Moneylender / Ambassador is the #139 ▼37 best opening. |
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/miningvillage.jpg) | #19 =0 Mining Village (Intrigue) Weighted Average: 20.32 ▼0.21 / Median: 20 =0 / Mode: 20 ▲6 / Standard Deviation: 6.9 ▲0.1 Highest Rank(s): #5 (1x), #9 (2x) / Lowest Rank(s): #31 (3x), #32 (1x), #34 (1x) Only 0.07 point-lead over Moneylender and 0.13 points over Throne Room, veeeery close. The stats are nearly the same as last time and it has a outlier on #5. It would be one rank lower in the unweighted ranking. Mining Village is a normal Village with a one-shot Silver possibility and the second best village for $4 (last time: best). If you need a Village you can use that one-shot self-trashing option later in the game when you give up your engine and fully commit on going green or have bad luck late in the game and only hit $6 or $7. And even if you doesn't have a engine and are going basically big money, you can buy this in the mid-game when you miss $6 for a Gold and don't want another Silver in your deck, because this still gives you the additional card and the $2 of a Silver. And if you have enough money and no additional buy you can save the one-shot Silver for later. Mining Village / Ambassador is the #76 best opening. |
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/horse-traders.jpg) | #18 ▼4 Horse Traders (Cornucopia) Weighted Average: 19.77 ▼4.20 / Median: 19 ▼4 / Mode: 23 ▼7 / Standard Deviation: 7.0 ▲1.7 Highest Rank(s): #2 (1x), #4 (1x), #7 (1x) / Lowest Rank(s): #31 (2x), #32 (1x) Although it "only" went down 4 ranks, it still lost value with a drop of over 4 points. The agreement in this is higher although some still voted it on #2 or #4. Horse Traders is (beside of Watchtower) the only Reaction card that is useful on many boards. Yes, it is still situational, but the situations occur very often. It's geat against discarding attacks, restoring the hand size - especially against Minion for a hand of 6 cards. Especially with weak attacks this card is good, because the benefit from Horse Traders is bigger for the opponent than the benefit for yourself playing a weak attack. But, the action part is very useful too. It's useful in decks full of green cards and curses, so it's a good supporting card for Gardens or Silk Road rushes, or buying Dukes. And it's a good addition to Hunting Party, a good starter for getting $5 early or early Grand Markets and so on... many possibilities. Still, as it is a Reaction card, it is very situational why you maybe voted it lower than last time. |
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/conspirator.jpg) | #17 =0 Conspirator (Intrigue) Weighted Average: 18.30 ▲0.04 / Median: 19 ▼0.5 / Mode: 23 ▲1 / Standard Deviation: 7.1 ▲0.5 Highest Rank(s): #3 (1x), #6 (2x) / Lowest Rank(s): #32 (2x), #34 (2x) Conspirator's stats nearly didn't changed. There's higher consensus on this card, but not much else to say here. Conspirator is so strong, but heavily depends on supporting cards that have to be non-terminal. Cheap action cards like Wishing Well, Pearl Diver or Hamlet that you can pick up in masses, especially with additional buys are great with Conspirator. You want thin decks with high action density. With that big support, this is a Grand Market just without the additional buy. In all other cases, you have to skip over Conspirator, because it's just a terminal Silver then. |
Cutpurse is to Militia as Spice Merchant is to Moneylender. Very similar, and worse but only barely. The gap should be lower. Eh, maybe I overrated it. Ranking Island at #2 is madness, but I definitely remember that Island/Silver was a way better opening than many people gave credit for, and any source of VP that gets out of the way is great in my book.
I'm looking forward to seeing how many ranks Worker's Village went up in order to pass Farming Village and Mining Village.
Chwhite, I agree with your post, especially about Envoy and Smithy which are way overrated.
I agree... except this part :Cutpurse is to Militia as Spice Merchant is to Moneylender. Very similar, and worse but only barely. The gap should be lower. Eh, maybe I overrated it. Ranking Island at #2 is madness, but I definitely remember that Island/Silver was a way better opening than many people gave credit for, and any source of VP that gets out of the way is great in my book.
I explained why I think Spice merchant is way better than moneylender so the cutpurse-militia/spice merchant-smithy comparison is inaccurate in my opinion. I seriously don't understand why people rank moneylender higher than spice merchant. And the stats on councilroom agree (http://councilroom.com/win_rate_diff_accum.html?cards=spice%20merchant%2C%20moneylender (http://councilroom.com/win_rate_diff_accum.html?cards=spice%20merchant%2C%20moneylender))
Well, I ranked Island so high for the same reason I ranked gardens and silk road higher than you : I love victory cards. It's simple, if duchy was on the $5 list I would rank it 1st. And same reasoning for all other victory cards. Island is a very nice opening buy, and 2VP are important at the end of the game. Finally Island is my 7th best effect with (I buy it 95% of the time !). So I persist : this card is underrated.
Yeah, this list is way more off than the other ones. Trader, Island, and Throne Room should be at the back of this group of cards. Not Ironworks, and certainly not Spice Merchant!
What else, I ranked Quarry quite a lot better (so dominating when it's good), Baron a lot better, Farming Village a little worse, and Moneylender and Spice Merchant a bajillion places better.
Spice Merchant is the most mis-ranked card so far in the new rankings. I put it at #13. A Copper trasher with decent cycling, flexible source of money, and even +buy in an emergency? Yes, please.
vp cards, in general, are hard to rate because of there value as late game strong duchy/cheap duchy/nerfed duchy equivalent. This is obviously super important late game, but in a sort of different way from other cards.
I also agree with spice-merchant>moneylender, lab is (slightly) better than term gold for an engine, spicemerchant obviously can get you into more trouble but it's over-all increase in flexibility (woodcutter/can use other coins) makes up for it's slightly weaker opening behavior.
Nonsense! If we could rank Duchy I would call it the est $4. You always have to buy a Duchy.
clearly moneylender is much better on the first reshuffle, and spice-merchant is much better for basically the rest of the game. I value the rest of the game over the first reshuffle.
Nonsense! If we could rank Duchy I would call it the est $4. You always have to buy a Duchy.
And I know thems fighting words.
Nonsense! If we could rank Duchy I would call it the est $4. You always have to buy a Duchy.
And I know thems fighting words.
There's only one possible response to that.
Vote: Robz888
Seriously, much of the time Duchy is only a card you buy if you're losing.
I actually had Baron a spot or two lower. The ~30 percent chance of drawing Baron with no Estates on Turns 3/4 is just such a kiss of death that I can't rank it highly. And then there are often just better options.
I actually had Baron a spot or two lower. The ~30 percent chance of drawing Baron with no Estates on Turns 3/4 is just such a kiss of death that I can't rank it highly. And then there are often just better options.
The thing is, I almost NEVER open with baron (same for salvager), because of the chance of drawing baron with no estates. However, this card is so strong in drawing engines (Stables, Hunting party, Lab, nobles, village+cards, ...)
You always have to buy a Duchy.
if duchy was on the $5 list I would rank it 1st.The way I see it, you usually like to swindle people's $5 cards into Duchies, so they can't really be that good...
if duchy was on the $5 list I would rank it 1st.The way I see it, you usually like to swindle people's $5 cards into Duchies, so they can't really be that good...
I actually had Baron a spot or two lower. The ~30 percent chance of drawing Baron with no Estates on Turns 3/4 is just such a kiss of death that I can't rank it highly. And then there are often just better options.
The thing is, I almost NEVER open with baron (same for salvager), because of the chance of drawing baron with no estates. However, this card is so strong in drawing engines (Stables, Hunting party, Lab, nobles, village+cards, ...)
Baron has slowly become a card that I usually veto if I can, because much of the time you feel compelled to open with it, and if it works out for your opponent but not you, that's so strong. And like you say, it's very good in drawing engines.
farming village a little underrated, i think people don't notice how often the ability helps them because of the isotropic interface, and sifting is not small.It's definitely good against certain attacks, and a little late game when you have victory cards in your deck, but if you can trash your estates, then for most of the game it's not doing anything. I think Mining, Farming, and Walled are all pretty close and belong right around where farming is in the low-mid 20s.
maybe i'd put it this way. ranking them as "villages qua villages" I would say worker's > mining > farming > walled. as "villages qua cards" though, it's the order I said before; possibly worker's is still better than farming. the question is in what percentage of a game that you want a village are you building a super-compact engine that needs streamless +buy every turn - I think it's lower than y'all are putting it at.
When you're liable to pick up a Village without even needing the Village effect itself, well, that says something.
When you're liable to pick up a Village without even needing the Village effect itself, well, that says something.
Yeah, I don't know why I was bad-mouthing Worker's Village as a source of +Buy, it's a pretty great source if you need either the +Action or you're running a cantrip engine.
Actually, though, most Villages have situations where you're willing to buy it without needing the +2 Actions: vanilla Village and Walled are the only true exceptions (and even then I can imagine Vineyard decks picking them up). But WV is more likely than most. The three villages which give +Coin- Festival, Fishing, and Bazaar- are all reasonable possibilities (say in a Minion or Scrying Pool deck), as are the +Buy Villages (Festival, Worker's, and Hamlet). And then there's getting a single Shanty Town in a terminal-less deck for the +Card. Mining, Farming, and Native are pretty rare, admittedly, though again this is because I don't really believe in buying Mining Village to use as a one-shot.
When you're liable to pick up a Village without even needing the Village effect itself, well, that says something.
Yeah, I don't know why I was bad-mouthing Worker's Village as a source of +Buy, it's a pretty great source if you need either the +Action or you're running a cantrip engine.
Actually, though, most Villages have situations where you're willing to buy it without needing the +2 Actions: vanilla Village and Walled are the only true exceptions (and even then I can imagine Vineyard decks picking them up). But WV is more likely than most. The three villages which give +Coin- Festival, Fishing, and Bazaar- are all reasonable possibilities (say in a Minion or Scrying Pool deck), as are the +Buy Villages (Festival, Worker's, and Hamlet). And then there's getting a single Shanty Town in a terminal-less deck for the +Card. Mining, Farming, and Native are pretty rare, admittedly, though again this is because I don't really believe in buying Mining Village to use as a one-shot.
I wasn't clear, but in that case I was only really talking about cards with "Village" in the actual name, which (with exceptions both ways) tend to be the ones without the common non-Village uses. But you make a good point, that Worker's isn't the only one. Even the rare ones have occasional uses, like Farming Village vs. Rabble. But I tend to think Worker's Village is the only non-coin one that's fairly common.
But wait! There's more! Say you're running a deck that needs +Buy but isn't a Village-based engine. Why, then Worker's Village may still be the ideal source of +Buy due to way that, as a cantrip, it slips so seamlessly into most decks. Only a couple other cards can do that, and they're harder and a lot harder to obtain, respectively: Market at $5 and Grand Market at $6 with a special restriction.
But wait! There's more! Say you're running a deck that needs +Buy but isn't a Village-based engine. Why, then Worker's Village may still be the ideal source of +Buy due to way that, as a cantrip, it slips so seamlessly into most decks. Only a couple other cards can do that, and they're harder and a lot harder to obtain, respectively: Market at $5 and Grand Market at $6 with a special restriction.(hamlet)
Pawn!Hand size decreasing! (not cantrips)
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/workersvillage.jpg) | #16 ▲7 Worker's Village (Prosperity) Weighted Average: 17.45 ▲3.78 / Median: 18 ▲1.5 / Mode: 17 ▲7 / Standard Deviation: 6.1 ▲0.5 Highest Rank(s): #3 (2x), #5 (1x) / Lowest Rank(s): #27 (1x), #29 (1x), #30 (1x) A big jump of 7 ranks and nearly 4 points here. With Worker's Village we have a card with low deviation for a middle-ranked card. It's the first card which was never below #30. In the unweighted ranking it would be even one rank higher on #15. If you build an engine, you need villages, draw, money and buys. Fishing Village is good because it is reliable and gives you money. Worker's Village gives you the additional buy - you have it included in your village so you don't need a separate card for that. It's also great picking up additional Peddlers in masses and with Goons where you need as many buys as you can get. But when you just need a simple village and don't plan to get more than $8 or $11 respectively, other villages for $4 are probably better. So this is the best village this time, last time it was only the third best. Worker's Village / Masquerade is the #89 best opening. |
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/smithy.jpg) | #15 ▲1 Smithy (Base) Weighted Average: 16.77 ▼0.14 / Median: 16 ▲0.5 / Mode: 12 ▲10 / Standard Deviation: 6.5 ▲0.1 Highest Rank(s): #4 (1x), #7 (1x), #8 (1x) / Lowest Rank(s): #30 (1x), #31 (1x), #40 (1x) Smithy was 8 times in the Top 10 and has very similar stats than last time. Interesting is the big change in mode and the big outlier on #40. In the unweighted ranking it would be even two ranks higher on #13. This is maybe the simplest card when you're learning Dominion. It has so few text, but is yet very powerful. It introduced us to the card drawing mechanism, the key card for Big Money and engines. In the base set Double-Smithy was still good, but the value dropped down. BM-Smithy is still the way to go on many boards, and if you need a card drawer for a good working engine, Smithy is still a good pick. |
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/gardens.jpg) | #14 ▲1 Gardens (Base) Weighted Average: 16.63 ▼0.8 / Median: 16 ▲0.5 / Mode: 7 ▲11 / Standard Deviation: 7.7 ▲1.5 Highest Rank(s): #3 (2x), #4 (1x) / Lowest Rank(s): #30 (1x), #32 (2x) Alternative victory cards are hard to rank, but Gardens has a much lower deviation this time. It has some really high ranks, it was 18 times in the Top 10 (6 times on #7). Still it has a lot of votes in the Twenties and even three times on #30 or below. It managed to beat Smithy by 0.14 points. Gardens is another card from the base set, introduced us to alternative victory cards. The Gardens rush is still a very good strategy on many boards and in Hinterlands there are more supporting cards for it, so it gained a little more power recently. Gardens is with non-trashing boards easily worth a Duchy and can be worth even more with good supporters like Workshop or Ironworks. It gets even better in cursing games where 3-piling gets faster and is harder to get to $8. |
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/silk-road.jpg) | #13 ▲15 Silk Road (Hinterlands) Weighted Average: 16.18 ▲8.71 / Median: 16 ▲6.5 / Mode: 8 ▲9 / Standard Deviation: 9.3 ▲0.6 Highest Rank(s): #3 (1x), #5 (2x) / Lowest Rank(s): #33 (2x), #35 (1x), #38 (1x) Silk Road is better than Gardens now. It's the Hinterlands card with the highest jump, 15 ranks and nearly 9 points. How we underestimated it! But there are still many players who rated it very low, so it has still a very high deviation, the highest deviation of all $4 cards. In the unweighted ranking it would be on #16, so especially newer players ranked it a lot lower. Silk Road plays similarly to Gardens. You have to rush them, with support of Workshop/Ironworks and/or additional buys for double Estates in the end game. You can pick Gardens up in the late game without rushing them and they are mostly worth 3VP like a Duchy. That's mostly not the case with Silk Road, you need a special strategy for them. But Silk Road is great with a board with dual-type victory cards like Island, Nobles or Harem. |
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/envoy.jpg) | #12 =0 Envoy (Promo) Weighted Average: 15.68 ▼1.24 / Median: 16 ▼4.5 / Mode: 18 ▼12 / Standard Deviation: 6.4 ▲4.2 Highest Rank(s): #3 (1x), #4 (1x), #5 (1x) / Lowest Rank(s): #28 (1x), #31 (1x), #32 (1x) Much more consensus here now, but still it's on the same rank even though it lost more than one point. It was 13 times in the Top 10. Envoy is maybe THE Big Money card. In a deck full of silver and an Envoy in hand, you're almost guaranteed a Province. In a Envoy Big Money deck you don't necessarily need Gold, as it will get discarded from your opponent either way. Smithy is #15 and draws 3 cards, of course this is stronger in BM games for drawing 4 cards. In engine games this is usually worse, as your opponent will discard your key card. But if you have a deck with a density of high quality, Envoy can be a very good addition too as you may draw the discarded card later again if you can draw your whole deck. |
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/bridge.jpg) | #11 ▲2 Bridge (Intrigue) Weighted Average: 15.28 ▼0.02 / Median: 14 ▼1 / Mode: 10 ▲7 / Standard Deviation: 6.7 ▲0.9 Highest Rank(s): #2 (2x), #3 (1x) / Lowest Rank(s): #27 (3x), #28 (1x), #30 (1x) Bridge has nearly the same points as last time, but still went up 2 ranks. It has a little more consensus, but still a lot of low ranks for such a high ranked card. Bridge is a very nice card. If you buy only one card, it's not more than a terminal Silver. If you use both buys, it's a terminal Gold, but still not so exciting. But its power rises the more you can play in one turn. With 2 Bridges and you use all 3 buys, they are worth $8, so $4 per Bridge. Its value increases quadratically. With n Bridges you have n˛+2n coins if you use every buy. So if you manage to play 7 Bridges and an additional copper, you can buy all 8 Provinces in one turn. The problem is still how to do that. You need enough actions and/or enough drawing power. You definitely need supporters. With a 5-card hand of 2 King's Courts and 3 Bridges, you can accomplish this easily. But also other cards like Tactician and Native Village are great supporters. If there aren't good supporters for 3-piling or mega-turning, Bridge is a trap card for being a terminal Gold in best case. |
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/caravan.jpg) | #10 ▼3 Caravan (Seaside) Weighted Average: 13.14 ▼2.85 / Median: 12 ▼3 / Mode: 9 =0 / Standard Deviation: 6.4 ▼0.9 Highest Rank(s): #1 (2x), #3 (2x) / Lowest Rank(s): #25 (1x), #26 (2x) We're making a jump of over 2 points and are now in the Top 10. Caravan lost 3 ranks, nearly 3 points and a lot of supporters, what the deviation shows us. It was 8 times on #9 and it is the second card with a first rank (even twice). It would be one rank higher in the unweighted ranking. Caravan is the worse Laboratory, because it has a delayed benefit and can miss the reshuffle and therefore you cannot play it that often. But still a bigger hand size from a nonterminal card is great. Only Big Money decks don't necessarily profit from it, so almost all decks can need a Caravan. Getting all Caravans is still not key to win the game, but if you get them quick (e.g. from Talisman or Ironworks), this can really make a huge difference. So this is almost a must-buy for all good engines. Caravan / Ambassador is the #7 =0 best opening and Caravan / Masquerade on #38 ▲28. |
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/salvager.jpg) | #9 ▲2 Salvager (Seaside) Weighted Average: 12.70 ▲1.06 / Median: 12 =0 / Mode: 12 ▼7 / Standard Deviation: 6.4 ▲3.0 Highest Rank(s): #1 (1x), #3 (1x), #6 (4x) / Lowest Rank(s): #27 (1x), #29 (1x), #32 (1x) Salvager is now 2 ranks higher, so it seems that the people ranking it low last time, changed their mind as you can see by the big change in the deviation. It's another card with a first rank and would be one rank lower in the unweighted ranking. Salvager is one of the best trash-for-benefit cards. It's not that a great starter, but still a good card to pick up early. Later in the game you generally want to trash your best card, so you can trash a Gold for an easy Province, maybe even for a double Province. Then you have a significant lead and can salvage your Province for another one, accelerating the game, so that your opponent can't come back. So Salvager is one of the first cards in this list, that is useful on most boards. |
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/militia.jpg) | #8 =0 Militia (Base) Weighted Average: 11.59 ▼0.86 / Median: 10 =0 / Mode: 6 ▲4 / Standard Deviation: 6.5 ▼0.7 Highest Rank(s): #1 (1x), #2 (1x), #4 (3x) / Lowest Rank(s): #27 (1x), #30 (2x) A few players ranked Militia lower now, what you can see in the higher deviation and a drop of nearly one point. But it's still on the same rank and it's the next card with a first rank. It was voted 10 times on #6. Militia is another card from the base set and it's the best. Discarding attacks are really annoying and can really hurt some decks. It's great against decks with trashers as the opponent mostly has to choose between buying a good card and discarding the trasher or trash 1-2 cards and buy nothing. Militia is also a good opener as it is also a terminal silver and stops your opponent getting to $5 or $6 early. And if you can play it each turn, this is great. So Militia / Chapel is the #67 ▼11 best opening. You can combo this with Council Room / Governor and your opponent doesn't get the benefit of the additional card, or play Militia and Masquerade afterwards what could really hurt. But there situations when Militia isn't that strong, especially if there are cursers on the board, or if there are effective counters like Watchtower, Horse Traders, Library, Jack of All Trades or Menagerie on the board. |
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/bishop.jpg) | #7 ▼1 Bishop (Prosperity) Weighted Average: 8.88 ▲1.33 / Median: 8 ▲2 / Mode: 5 ▲3 / Standard Deviation: 6.1 ▼0.8 Highest Rank(s): #1 (3x) / Lowest Rank(s): #23 (1x), #33 (1x), #35 (1x) Another big jump of 2.7 points. Bishop is over 1 point better, but still lost a rank. It was 3 times on the first spot, but has 2 big outliers in the low ranks. It was voted 9 times on #5. In the unweighted ranking it would be one rank higher on #6. Bishop is a good opener too, as it can trash your cards for the benefit of early VPs. So a trashed Estate nets you already 1 point more without having it in your deck. You can also buy Duchies and trash them for the same VP or Provinces for one point less, but they aren't in your deck anymore which is great. In other scenarios you can trash a Gold late for additional 4VP. There is also a strategy called "Golden Deck" where you trash down to 4 cards (Bishop and 3 Treasures which give at least $7), buy a Province and trash it in the next turn, buying the next province, etc. what gives you 5 VP per turn guaranteed. But take into account the benefit your opponent gets. Often it makes more sense to skip Bishop if your opponent opened Bishop. Then you can trash for free and build a better engine than your opponent. As said above, discarding attacks like Militia really hurt Bishop too. Bishop / Chapel is on #128 in the best openings list. |
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/monument.jpg) | #6 ▲4 Monument (Prosperity) Weighted Average: 8.47 ▲4.53 / Median: 7 ▲5.5 / Mode: 7 ▲5 / Standard Deviation: 5.1 ▲2.6 Highest Rank(s): #2 (4x) / Lowest Rank(s): #20 (2x), #24 (2x) Monument is another winner of this ranking. It went up 4 ranks and over 4 points. Also it has a very low deviation, so the good rank is deserved. It's the last card with no first rank, but it was second 4 times and has very few outliers in the low ranks. It was voted 15 times outside the Top 10 and was voted 12 times on #7. In the unweighted ranking it would be one rank lower on #7. You want to pick up Monument early in the game, because the more you play it, the more it's worth it. It's good in quick games without good additional buys, where it can help you to force your opponent to a 5/3 Province split to win the game. And it's good in decks where you can guarantee to play your Monument regularly. Monument / Chapel is the #38 ▼17 best opening. So one Monument is a great addition to a Hunting Party deck. Monument is also the only infinite VP generating card in the game. With a 5 card hand of 2 King's Courts and 3 Monument you are guaranteed 9 VP per turn. But as it is terminal and when there are very good attacks on the board, then you have to ignore it. |
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/young-witch.jpg) | #5 =0 Young Witch (Cornucopia) Weighted Average: 5.76 ▲3.42 / Median: 5 =0 / Mode: 5 =0 / Standard Deviation: 5.6 ▲4.5 Highest Rank(s): #1 (3x) / Lowest Rank(s): #22 (1x), #27 (1x), #29 (1x) We're making the next big jump of 2.7 points and reaching the Top 5. Last year's Top 5 are this year's Top 5 and Young Witch is still on #5. But it managed to make a huge gap to all other cards with the big increase of over 3 points. It was one of the cards with the highest deviation the last time, but the consensus is much higher this time. It was 12 times on #5 and was only voted 10 times outside the Top 10. Young Witch is a curser which generally is very strong and only costs $4, so this is huge! But you are guaranteed that there's a Moat-like bane card in the setup. If you would have bought this card either way, YW is mostly not worth it and skippable, especially if the bane is Lighthouse (it defends now in hand and in play) or Scheme (just return it again and again). In all other cases YW is very strong as a curser and has still the draw-and-discard filter advantage. This leads to one of the most-fun synergies: Young Witch and Tunnel. Giving out curses and getting Gold at the same time is great. Young Witch / Tunnel is #32 ▼14 on the opening list. |
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/remake.jpg) | #4 =0 Remake (Cornucopia) Weighted Average: 5.26 ▲2.56 / Median: 4 ▲2 / Mode: 4 ▼2 / Standard Deviation: 6.0 ▲3.4 Highest Rank(s): #1 (3x) / Lowest Rank(s): #27 (1x), #28 (1x), #33 (1x) Another one from Cornucopia with a similar change to last time than Young Witch: same rank, but big increase in points and consensus. It was only voted 8 times outside the Top 10, and only 3 times outside the Top 15, 3 big outliers. If you compare Remake to Chapel, it can only trash 2 cards at a time but at the same time let you get 3 Silvers in your deck. And if there are good $2 cards on the board, you can buy a good card for the last two Copper in your hand too. Remake is maybe after Chapel the fastest opening trasher in the game. You can get high quality decks really fast. Later it gets nearly as useless as Chapel, but at that time this doesn't bother you too much. Remake / Menagerie is the best opening on #149. |
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/tournament.jpg) | #3 =0 Tournament (Cornucopia) Weighted Average: 4.86 ▲1.62 / Median: 4 ▲0.5 / Mode: 4 =0 / Standard Deviation: 5.2 ▲0.6 Highest Rank(s): #1 (5x) / Lowest Rank(s): #16 (1x), #26 (1x), #31 (1x) The third one from Cornucopia in a row. And even the third card managed to get a much better ranking and a little bit better deviation. It was only voted 7 times outside the Top 10 with 2 big outliers. Many hate Treasure Map for being so luck-based. Tournament is also very luck-based as you have to pair a Province and a Tournament. If you manage to do that you get one of 5 prices that are so strong that Donald X. didn't want to realize these ideas as "normal" cards. So, Tournament is in fact a very good card. I will not go in detail into the prizes, but how do you manage to get a Tournament and Province in hand? It's the same as with Treasure Map. Either trash down to few cards (e.g. Chapel), get a big hand size (e.g. Tactician), or cycle through your deck with sifters (e.g. Warehouse). Also there is the possibility to spam Tournaments which are at least nonterminal and good cards for themselves - at least until your opponent gets Provinces. It's not surprising that Tournament has 3 spots in the Top 10 openings with Ambassador (#2 ▲1), Chapel (#6 ▼1) and Masquerade (#10 ▼2) |
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/jack-of-all-trades.jpg) | #2 ▼1 Jack of all Trades (Hinterlands) Weighted Average: 4.15 ▼1.53 / Median: 3 ▼1.5 / Mode: 2 ▼1 / Standard Deviation: 3.8 ▼0.8 Highest Rank(s): #1 (13x) / Lowest Rank(s): #15 (2x), #16 (1x) Jack of All Trades isn't the best $4 card anymore. It lost one and a half points and a little bit of consensus. Still 13 players voted it on #1, 17 players on #2 and it was only voted 6 times outside the Top 10. Nobody saw that coming when Hinterlands came out. JoaT seems so weak, but it isn't. It seems he does nothing good, he's slowing in trashing, draws few cards and let you get a Silver and has a Spy effect. But it is so strong because it's a very good counter against nearly all attacks. Just buy 2 JoaT and you can skip the cursing attack while you're going for Big Money. Yes, it's boring, but effective. It's weaker in Colony games because of the Silver and there are still situations where a thin deck with an obvious engine or a rush is stronger, but if you feel unsure, JoaT is always a good buy, if you stick to it. It combos bad with nearly all other cards. The opening list proves that. Only Fishing Village and Chapel are better openings paired with JoaT than just Silver. The hype - after the simulators showed its strength - is gone now and it's not a must-buy in every game, but it is still the second best $4 card. |
(http://www.dominiondeck.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/cards-large/cards/seahag.jpg) | #1 ▲1 Sea Hag (Seaside) Weighted Average: 2.45 ▲1.32 / Median: 1 ▲1 / Mode: 1 ▲1 / Standard Deviation: 3.6 ▲3.7 Highest Rank(s): #1 (33x) / Lowest Rank(s): #12 (2x), #14 (1x), #21 (1x) We have a new #1. It went up over 1 point and has a lead over JaoT of 1.7 points. It also gained more agreement with over the half players ranking it first and only 5 players ranking it outside the Top 10. Sea Hag is the next $4 curser. It has a big first-player advantage as you may discard your opponents Sea Hag in turn 3 and because the curse goes on top of the deck, this hurts your opponent even more than all other cursers in the game. At least if he hasn't any good counter, like trashing from top of the deck, like Lookout does. Sea Hag / Lookout is also the #49 ▼20 best opening (and many other good SH openings between #50 and #100 still to come). The biggest problem of Sea Hag is: it hurts your oppenent more, but it doesn't give you any benefit (like most of the other attacks do). So every Sea Hag is later a dead Sea Hag if the Curse pile is empty (and is basically a Curse for itself too). And don't forget to build up your economy as Sea Hag doesn't help you now to accomplish this. That may be the reason that Sea Hag / Fool's Gold is the best Sea Hag opening because you get a lot of $2-$3 hands for more Fool's Gold and with at least 2 Fool's Gold it's even better as Silver. |
The only card here I had considerably different was Monument. The extra VP is nice in BM games, but in an engine, it's a terminal silver with no benefit until scoring. Yes, it's an amazing benefit, but the lack of extra benefit means it's generally best to avoid until your engine is actually running, which means you only have 9 other cards to look at to get your engine built with. Hm, actually, that's still pretty good. Maybe I have been underrating Monument.
JoaT dropped to #2? But it DoubleJoaT dominates Sea Hag...Double Jack dominating Sea Hag says nothing about which is actually a better card, only that when both are on the table, you'll probably go Double Jack rather than Sea Hag.
So how exactly should the game look like where you would go for Gardens, but not SR? And what value do you expect Gardens to get? Because usually, I don't think it's really difficult to get SR to 4VP, especially when not mirrored. And even 3VP is usually fine when coming from a Curse game.
Young Witch you definitely buy less than any of the rest of the top 4, but again, it's big impact even if you don't buy it. Probably at least 75% of the time you should buy either the Young Witch or the bane (I know a lot of people don't value this aspect in these rankings, so I'm not at all surprised it fell to #5).
Mining, well, you need loads of plus buys to make it really good for an engine, you can use it to slingshot a bit, but you don't really want to do that so so much (silver, man). It's definitely nice for some sort of tweener decks, that aren't really engines, or BM, so the village is nice but not so necessary, or somethin'? I dunno, it's a nice thing to have, but not something that really makes the card as concretely good as it seems it ought to.
My top 10 :Why did you put Island at #2? Don't you think YW or Monument or Jack might be better? My top ten:
- Sea Hag
- Island
- Tournament
- Bishop
- Remake
- Young Witch
- Monument
- Silk road
- Gardens
- Jack
Maybe my "real" list was strongly different, I don't remember. It's really difficult to compare Monument-YoungWitch-SR-Gardens, especially. But I absolutely don't change my opinion about the first three.
What I think my top 10 was:A bit off? I agree with yu on Baron. And wow, totally forgot about Militia. Put it in between Bishop and Gardens.
Sea Hag
Tournament
Remake
Jack
Young Witch
Salvager
Caravan
Baron
Militia
Scout
I may be a bit off about that 10th one there. Baron is sooooo underrated in this list.
See, I don't think Caravan is that awesome as a cantrip. This turn, it does nothing. Peddler (which honestly you'll never buy for more than $4 anyway) is almost always superior, Tournament is just a notch below Peddler qua cantrip, and Oasis is going to be better most of the time. It's true that Caravan is a delayed Lab, but you can't make Caravan chains like you can with Lab chains because the Caravan you draw into your second turn doesn't stack as a Lab (it's effect is delayed until turn 3).
Caravan is good at smoothing out a deck's draws, but it doesn't create explosive hands like Lab. But trashing also smooths out a deck's draws. Caravan has a much larger opportunity cost than a trasher like Remake or Chapel because you have to buy multiples, whereas your trasher only requires one buy.
I'm surprised by the high ranks for Caravan. It's never a card that will actively hurt your deck, but usually it doesn't do a ton to make your deck stronger. Unless you've got an Ironworks/Workshop/Talisman thing going on, Caravan is often a trap. What am I missing?
First, I don't like to open salvager because Salvager-4xcopper is even more frustrating than Baron-4xcopper.
Second, you really don't want to trash your action cards, and salvager is very bad in big money games (because, it collides with the terminal drawer, and trashing silver is very bad, you have 3$ for two cards...).
Finally, salvager accelerate the game in the same way as remodel, so why salvager should be much better than remodel ?