Dominion Strategy Forum
Archive => Archive => Dominion: Dark Ages Previews => Topic started by: Tables on May 23, 2012, 08:23:40 am
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Didn't see a topic about it yet, so for those who haven't seen it:
http://www.riograndegames.com/games.html?id=421
Times have been hard. To save on money, you've moved out of your old castle, and into a luxurious ravine. You didn't like that castle anyway; it was always getting looted, and never at a reasonable hour. And if it wasn't barbarians it was the plague, or sometimes both would come at once, and there wouldn't be enough chairs. The ravine is great; you get lots of sun, and you can just drop garbage wherever you want. In your free time you've taken up begging. Begging is brilliant conceptually, but tricky in practice, since no-one has any money. You beg twigs from the villagers, and they beg them back, but no-one really seems to come out ahead. That's just how life is sometimes. You're quietly conquering people, minding your own business, when suddenly there's a plague, or barbarians, or everyone's illiterate, and it's all you can do to cling to some wreckage as the storm passes through. Still, you are sure that, as always, you will triumph over this adversity, or at least do slightly better than everyone else.
This is the 7th addition to the game of Dominion. It is 500 cards but is not a standalone. It adds 35 new Kingdom cards to Dominion, plus new bad cards you give to other players (Ruins), new cards to replace starting Estates (Shelters), and cards you can only get via specific other cards. The central themes are the trash and upgrading. There are cards that do something when trashed, cards that care about the trash, cards that upgrade themselves, and ways to upgrade other cards.
Mmm... so, 35 Kingdom Cards, seem to remember that's about what I expected. That means 385 cards accounted for, plus two for each victory card. Then there are Shelters, which there's at least 12 of (probably >=18 of for 6 player), and Ruins, which could really be any number... but either way that leaves about 100 cards between Ruins, cards only gained cards from other cards, extra Shelters and anything else I've missed.
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That's interesting news. Sounds like there is some new Curse variant plus some Moaty Estate variant (at least "Shelter" sounds somehat Moaty...). And cards that care about the trash... wow, didn't expect this to happen.
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So for those of us that haven't been endless readers of the Variants forum, could someone give an executive summary of what "care about the trash" ideas have seemed interesting/viable and what design challenges people have found?
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"Cards that care about the trash"
Who said this couldn't be done?!?
I've always been a fan and welcome this new expansion into the family.
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"Cards that care about the trash"
Who said this couldn't be done?!?
I've always been a fan and welcome this new expansion into the family.
Cards that care about the trash does not necessarily mean cards that come back from the trash. Somebody said not long ago that there was a card which cared about thief having cards go into the trash before going to the other player....
So much to over-analyze here. Let the wild speculation begin!
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Then there are Shelters, which there's at least 12 of (probably >=18 of for 6 player)
Why do you assume that ALL of your starting Estates will be replaced with Shelters? It could just be 1 or 2 per player.
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"Cards that care about the trash"
Who said this couldn't be done?!?
I've always been a fan and welcome this new expansion into the family.
Cards that care about the trash does not necessarily mean cards that come back from the trash. Somebody said not long ago that there was a card which cared about thief having cards go into the trash before going to the other player....
So much to over-analyze here. Let the wild speculation begin!
I had thought of a card that was worth 1 VP for every 3 cards in the Trash. But that has to be viable even when there aren't any trashers on the table, so having it be Action-Victory with "Trash a card from your hand" above the line makes it better. I have no idea what this would cost.
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Upgrading?! my simulator won't be happy
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The line about not having enough chairs for the barbarians and the plague made me laugh out loud. We need a poll on which expansion has the best "flavor paragraph" describing it.
Any intel yet on when this hits stores?
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The line about not having enough chairs for the barbarians and the plague made me laugh out loud. We need a poll on which expansion has the best "flavor paragraph" describing it.
"The eggs are on the table."
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So, does that mean we can expect "Trash a card from your hand. Each other player gains a curse"? Or perhaps "Trash this card. Each other player gains a curse"?
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So, does that mean we can expect "Trash a card from your hand. Each other player gains a curse Ruin"? Or perhaps "Trash this card. Each other player gains a curse Ruin"?
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Let's all speculate about Ruin now!
I am going to say it is an anti-green card, so that it not only cancels out 1vp (like curse does) but one Victory CARD, which could be an estate or duchy....etc.
Any more takers?
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I don't know about Ruins, but I'm pretty sure Shelter will be a Victory card worth 0 VP.
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I don't know about Ruins, but I'm pretty sure Shelter will be a Victory card worth 0 VP.
Why? Other than it having the victory type, this would make it functionally equivalent to Confusion.
I'm going to guess it has some other functionality. Like, it has some drawback compared to estate, but protects you from ruins?
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Think we might finally have a way to gain cards from the trash?? I know that Donald (or was it Rinkworks?) has specifically said before that it was a bad idea because you almost always only have bad things in the trash, unless you get crazy lucy to get a Saboteur'd Province from the trash, in which case it's too much variance. But if there's a lot more trash-for-benefit type stuff, then you can expect the trash to be a bit better than normal.
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Maybe Shelter is a 0 VP card, and you start with 3 (or more or fewer) VP chips. This would grant a stronger incentive to upgrade your cards. It could also enable a VP chip-'trashing' attack. Ruins could involve removing VP chips.
Buuuuut, this definitely sounds more complicated than Prosperity.
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Maybe Shelter is a 0 VP card, and you start with 3 (or more or fewer) VP chips. This would grant a stronger incentive to upgrade your cards. It could also enable a VP chip-'trashing' attack. Ruins could involve removing VP chips.
Buuuuut, this definitely sounds more complicated than Prosperity.
Pretty sure we aren't going to see VP chips again. Hasn't Donald said that, like durations, this is a mechanic we won't see again?
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Ruins are probably just going to be the old Confusion idea, now that there are spare cards to print them, though probably with more bells and whistles, like other cards counting how many Ruins (or Shelters, for that matter) are in the trash. I'm almost sure there is going to something about Shelters in the trash, since why else would they have to be in your starting deck?
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Maybe Shelter is a 0 VP card, and you start with 3 (or more or fewer) VP chips. This would grant a stronger incentive to upgrade your cards. It could also enable a VP chip-'trashing' attack. Ruins could involve removing VP chips.
Buuuuut, this definitely sounds more complicated than Prosperity.
Pretty sure we aren't going to see VP chips again. Hasn't Donald said that, like durations, this is a mechanic we won't see again?
I'm pretty sure that, unlike Durations, he hasn't explicitly ruled it out.
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Maybe Shelter is a 0 VP card, and you start with 3 (or more or fewer) VP chips. This would grant a stronger incentive to upgrade your cards. It could also enable a VP chip-'trashing' attack. Ruins could involve removing VP chips.
Buuuuut, this definitely sounds more complicated than Prosperity.
Pretty sure we aren't going to see VP chips again. Hasn't Donald said that, like durations, this is a mechanic we won't see again?
I'm pretty sure that, unlike Durations, he hasn't explicitly ruled it out.
He has ruled out any extra "bits" (see: tokens and/or mats) for Dark Ages though. That's why it has so many cards.
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Maybe Shelter is a 0 VP card, and you start with 3 (or more or fewer) VP chips. This would grant a stronger incentive to upgrade your cards. It could also enable a VP chip-'trashing' attack. Ruins could involve removing VP chips.
Buuuuut, this definitely sounds more complicated than Prosperity.
Pretty sure we aren't going to see VP chips again. Hasn't Donald said that, like durations, this is a mechanic we won't see again?
I'm pretty sure that, unlike Durations, he hasn't explicitly ruled it out.
He has ruled out any extra "bits" (see: tokens and/or mats) for Dark Ages though. That's why it has so many cards.
Ah, gotcha. Maybe for Guilds then. Or maybe they're indeed not coming back, which like Durations would be a shame.
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I would imagine that there will be a card that can gain from the trash, and it could also be a card that could Upgrade itself (or is tied to such a card, a la Young Witch and its bane). Upgrading would be "trash this, gain that (not in the supply)." And then you could use a "gain from trash" to re-gain an upgradable card. Maybe a card could upgrade into one of multiple things, so you would actually NEED to gain it from the trash in order to get more copies of something else.
You could care about the trash as an attack. "Choose a card in the trash. Each opponent gets a copy of it from the supply." Or you can just force each opponent to gain a card from the trash.
There could be a Forge-like card that combines cost of X items in the trash -- think of it as making the most of the scraps available, as you might have to do in hard times.
I figure Barbarians and Plague are going to be new attack cards. Maybe Beggar, also.
This is exciting.
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Really excited to see what shelters are as they can replace estates (they obviously dont have to because that would be a rules change, or maybe they have a prosperity rule attached to them or a young witch rule attached to them)
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I'm thinking Shelter will be an upgradeable card - maybe one or more Kingdom cards will play with Shelters.
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Maybe Shelter can upgrade into other VP (think along the lines of the naming). Similarly, VP could downgrade into Ruins.
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So, Ravine, Illiteracy, Beggar, Barbarians and Plague are new cards?
I guess it also means a card that says:
Something - reaction
something something..
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If you trash this card, AWESOME EFFECT.
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I'd be unpleasantly surprised if a card allows for gaining cards from the trash pile.
I am ok with something akin to a phil stone that counts the trash pile or the number of different types of cards in the trash pile but I like the explicit what goes in the trash stays in the trash rule.
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I'd be unpleasantly surprised if a card allows for gaining cards from the trash pile.
I am ok with something akin to a phil stone that counts the trash pile or the number of different types of cards in the trash pile but I like the explicit what goes in the trash stays in the trash rule.
The thing about cards that do things you don't like is that most games, they don't show up, so it doesn't matter all that much. And in the games it shows up, you can live with it. Eventually, you might actually grow to enjoy it. I was upset when VP tokens showed up, because I liked the idea that it should hurt you to get VPs too early, and felt that something like Monument shouldn't be a good opening card. But now I'm okay with it.
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And then there's the fact that Theif and Noble Brigand both already gain cards from the Trash.
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And then there's the fact that Theif and Noble Brigand both already gain cards from the Trash.
According to the card text this is technically true although I perceive it as being intercepted on the way to the trash.
I have a distaste for rules evolutions that challenges my established perceptions and that the cards found in the trash are inaccessible qualifies as an established perception. My feeble mind prefers for rules evolutions to enhance the existing ruleset not overturn them.
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Thematically, Ruins sounds more likely to be a victory card worth 0 VP. Ruins are structures that used to be worth something. I'm thinking this would create room for a card, like saboteur or a reverse expand, that exchanges a victory card with one worth fewer VPs. Destroy a a Duchy into an Estate and then destroy an Estate into a Ruins.
Making this a victory-type card that costs zero rather than a new type, like confusion, would create some interesting interactions with Silk Road, Trade Route, etc.
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And then there's the fact that Theif and Noble Brigand both already gain cards from the Trash.
According to the card text this is technically true although I perceive it as being intercepted on the way to the trash.
I have a distaste for rules evolutions that challenges my established perceptions and that the cards found in the trash are inaccessible qualifies as an established perception. My feeble mind prefers for rules evolutions to enhance the existing ruleset not overturn them.
You don't like it when it matters that you don't understand the rules? Seriously, this does not overturn the existing rules, it makes use of them.
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One of the major problems with gaining from the trash is that usually, the trash has nothing of value, but this set apparently has a focus on "upgrading" and so will have, I bet, a lot of ways to trash cards, making the trash more usable.
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Really excited to see what shelters are as they can replace estates (they obviously dont have to because that would be a rules change, or maybe they have a prosperity rule attached to them or a young witch rule attached to them)
It would have to be a Prosperity/Alchemy/Young Witch type rules change I think. It alters your starting deck, so that's a rules change. The only question is, do you use it only when a specific card is out (Young Witch) or do you use it whenever you are playing with Dark Ages (Prosperity)?
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Really excited to see what shelters are as they can replace estates (they obviously dont have to because that would be a rules change, or maybe they have a prosperity rule attached to them or a young witch rule attached to them)
It would have to be a Prosperity/Alchemy/Young Witch type rules change I think. It alters your starting deck, so that's a rules change. The only question is, do you use it only when a specific card is out (Young Witch) or do you use it whenever you are playing with Dark Ages (Prosperity)?
Maybe a lot of cards in Dark Ages warrant a setup change like Alchemy does.
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Oooh, the name Shelter might imply a refuge from the attack cards that surely run rampant in this set. But how to make a reaction card balanced if it's in your starting deck? Maybe something like:
Shelter
Cost: 2
Victory/Reaction
0 VP
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When another player plays an Attack card,
you may reveal this card from your hand and
trash it. If you do, you are unaffected by
that Attack.
It would at least allow decks to get on their feet a little bit before the full force of attacks comes to bear.
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Ok I have an idea for ruins/shelters. I'm sure it needs balancing and has wording issues but here it is:
Barbarians $4
Action - Attack
Each other player gains a ruin card.
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Set up: Each player substitutes shelters for their starting Estates. Include the Ruin and Shleter cards in the supply.
Ruin $0
Type ????
During your clean-up phase, if this is the first ruin you discarded, put it on top of your deck.
Shelter $2
Action
+1 Action
You may reveal a Ruin card from your hand. If you do, return it to the supply.
EDIT: or maybe if you don't want to make shelter an action have it activate when you discard it from play, like ruin.
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Traderish card:
Scrap Dealer
Action - Reaction
Action - something something
Reaction - When you would trash a card, you may reveal this card from hand. If you do, gain a copy of that card instead.
Now that you be super-awesome! ;D
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I had this wacky idea for Ruins which I posted on BGG. Presumably there would also be cards which gave out Ruins like Curses.
RUINS
Type: Ruins
$-1
-1 VP
You wanna Upgrade or Remodel it? Gotta take a Copper! You've got 2 buys and $7? Take a Ruins and a Province!
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I had this wacky idea for Ruins which I posted on BGG. Presumably there would also be cards which gave out Ruins like Curses.
RUINS
Type: Ruins
$-1
-1 VP
You wanna Upgrade or Remodel it? Gotta take a Copper! You've got 2 buys and $7? Take a Ruins and a Province!
I've seen a similar idea before, but I think it was worded as:
Cost: $0
[random effect or penalty or something]
When you gain this, +$1, +1 Buy.
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I had this wacky idea for Ruins which I posted on BGG. Presumably there would also be cards which gave out Ruins like Curses.
RUINS
Type: Ruins
$-1
-1 VP
You wanna Upgrade or Remodel it? Gotta take a Copper! You've got 2 buys and $7? Take a Ruins and a Province!
I doubt you can print that, given the existence of bridge and highway. If I play a highway, it tells me that cards can't cost less than 0. Does that make this thing more expensive?!
I do expect decently much there to be a reaction to you trashing something. And I definitely expect something, probably a reaction, to, say, react to cards entering the trash, i.e. "If a card enters the trash, you may discard this card and gained the trash card in hand" or more likely "If a card would enter the trash, you may trash this to gain that card instead". Eh, something along those lines.
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I had this wacky idea for Ruins which I posted on BGG. Presumably there would also be cards which gave out Ruins like Curses.
RUINS
Type: Ruins
$-1
-1 VP
You wanna Upgrade or Remodel it? Gotta take a Copper! You've got 2 buys and $7? Take a Ruins and a Province!
I've seen a similar idea before, but I think it was worded as:
Cost: $0
[random effect or penalty or something]
When you gain this, +$1, +1 Buy.
Think Duchess was supposed to be similar. Thing is, you can empty this pile and get +10$ in a single turn. Pair it with Watchtower..
I like jont's idea actually.
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I think this sort of mechanic (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=2432.0) is plausible for accessing the cards that you can only get via other cards. I guess for theming purposes it would have to be restoring things rather than being trained up.
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Ooohh, info on Dark Ages.
I doubt Shelter has a Moat ability. That would make early cursers much weaker. Think... that would be like Estate as the bane for YW. Opening with a curser would be next to useless.
Ruins... an alt curse, no doubt. Possibilities...
Anyone consider more non-Curse hybrids? Victory/Attack?
More Prizes? That would make Tournament more exciting. And then there is the possibility of a whole new type all together...
By the way, do we have an exact date for Dark Ages yet? Still sometime in August?
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Isn't Feast a card that upgrades itself?
I think I'm intrigued by this "cards that upgrade themselves" idea the most (well, next to Shelters). I had thought of the idea of a card that changes when you play it, but I hadn't gotten anywhere with it.
I have to say, though, I'm astonished at the themes for this set, particularly since they're for such a large set. I'd never have thought there was enough juice in the upgrading idea to be a theme to a whole set, because I can't imagine how many ways you can upgrade cards that we don't already have.
Similarly, as one who has preached against "retrieve from the trash" fan cards, I'm astonished that the trash will suddenly matter now. Of course, nothing says we'll get "retrieve from the trash." And if we do, I'm sure it'll be done in a very careful and clever way that circumvents the much-discussed problems. Actually, if we're about to get a couple dozen trashing/upgrading cards, it'll severely reduce the main problem, which is that cards in the trash are trash. Just the same, I think it more likely the trash theme cards would be things like Treasures and Victory Cards whose value varies depending on what's in the trash.
Super excited now.
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Just because the theme is upgrading/trash doesnt mean all the cards have to be on theme. I mean, seaside's theme is next turn, but that only really applies to maybe half of the cards in the set.
Also I trust Donald to handle the trash in a well done manner. Just because most fan cards have done it poorly doesn't mean it can't be done. And if the set introduces new mechanics, that could help circumvent some of the issues as well.
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Thematically, Ruins sounds more likely to be a victory card worth 0 VP. Ruins are structures that used to be worth something. I'm thinking this would create room for a card, like saboteur or a reverse expand, that exchanges a victory card with one worth fewer VPs. Destroy a a Duchy into an Estate and then destroy an Estate into a Ruins.
Making this a victory-type card that costs zero rather than a new type, like confusion, would create some interesting interactions with Silk Road, Trade Route, etc.
I'm feeling mighty vindicated in my fan-cards:
Revolutionary
Type: Action – Attack
Cost: $5
Effect:
“Each other player reveals cards from their deck until they reveal a Victory card, which they return to the supply. In exchange they gain a cheaper Victory card or a Curse, plus one Estate.”
Witch Doctor
Type: Action – Attack
Cost: $6
Effect:
“+2 Cards. Choose one: Trash any number of Curses from your hand, gain 1VP (token) per curse
OR
Each other player -1VP (token) and gains a Curse.”
Magician
Action - Reaction ($4)
"Trash a card from your hand. You may gain a card with equal or lower cost."
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"When a card is placed on a pile, you may reveal this card from your hand and discard it. If you…
-Trashed a card, gain it (to your Discard pile)
-Gained a card, place it on your deck
-Placed a card on your deck, place it in your hand"
Just swap in "Ruin" for "Curse" in Revolutionary and and they go perfectly with what little we know about Dark Ages.
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Isn't Feast a card that upgrades itself?
I thought I read in Donald's explanation of the card origins that Feast had come from another deck where he was trying to do "one-shot" cards. This sounds to be along those lines - trash this card, gain a different card. Trash that card, gain a third, ultra-powerful card, or something like that.
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I had this wacky idea for Ruins which I posted on BGG. Presumably there would also be cards which gave out Ruins like Curses.
RUINS
Type: Ruins
$-1
-1 VP
You wanna Upgrade or Remodel it? Gotta take a Copper! You've got 2 buys and $7? Take a Ruins and a Province!
in other news, trader moves higher on the list of power fours.
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So there's two interpretations of "upgrading", and we seem to be focusing on one of them—i.e., effects like the card Upgrade (or Remodel or whatever), where you trash a card and gain a better card. Another possibility is that "upgrading" refers to cards that get better themselves, rather than being trashed and replaced by new cards. In existing sets there are already City, Trade Route, and Pirate Ship as cards that get "upgraded" in this sense.
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Just because the theme is upgrading/trash doesnt mean all the cards have to be on theme. I mean, seaside's theme is next turn, but that only really applies to maybe half of the cards in the set.
Also I trust Donald to handle the trash in a well done manner. Just because most fan cards have done it poorly doesn't mean it can't be done. And if the set introduces new mechanics, that could help circumvent some of the issues as well.
Agreed on both counts, yeah. Still, you'd expect at least half the cards in a set to be on-theme, and maybe more. Even with only, say, 10 cards on-theme, that's WAY more interesting possibilities for upgrading and trash-caring than I figured were left.
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So there's two interpretations of "upgrading", and we seem to be focusing on one of them—i.e., effects like the card Upgrade (or Remodel or whatever), where you trash a card and gain a better card. Another possibility is that "upgrading" refers to cards that get better themselves, rather than being trashed and replaced by new cards. In existing sets there are already City, Trade Route, and Pirate Ship as cards that get "upgraded" in this sense.
I'm thinking more on the lines of Feast, but with specific upgrade paths, i.e. buy A from supply, trash it to get B* (not in supply), trash that to get C* (not in supply). The description did mention many cards that "you can only get via specific other cards".
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I'm thinking more on the lines of Feast, but with specific upgrade paths, i.e. buy A from supply, trash it to get B* (not in supply), trash that to get C* (not in supply). The description did mention many cards that "you can only get via specific other cards".
That's what I'm expecting as well. It will be evolving Pokemons all over again!
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Looks like my dream wasn't too crazy... Just got the wrong expansion...
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=2432.msg37776#msg37776
Ed
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I'm thinking more on the lines of Feast, but with specific upgrade paths, i.e. buy A from supply, trash it to get B* (not in supply), trash that to get C* (not in supply). The description did mention many cards that "you can only get via specific other cards".
That's what I'm expecting as well. It will be evolving Pokemons all over again!
The correct plural of Pokemon is actually just Pokemon. ;)
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Magician
Action - Reaction ($4)
"Trash a card from your hand. You may gain a card with equal or lower cost."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
"When a card is placed on a pile, you may reveal this card from your hand and discard it. If you…
-Trashed a card, gain it (to your Discard pile)
-Gained a card, place it on your deck
-Placed a card on your deck, place it in your hand"
Cool! Play Magician, trash a Fool's Gold, reveal Magician, gain it, reveal Magician, put it on deck, reveal Magician, put it into hand!
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So there's two interpretations of "upgrading", and we seem to be focusing on one of them—i.e., effects like the card Upgrade (or Remodel or whatever), where you trash a card and gain a better card. Another possibility is that "upgrading" refers to cards that get better themselves, rather than being trashed and replaced by new cards. In existing sets there are already City, Trade Route, and Pirate Ship as cards that get "upgraded" in this sense.
I'm thinking more on the lines of Feast, but with specific upgrade paths, i.e. buy A from supply, trash it to get B* (not in supply), trash that to get C* (not in supply). The description did mention many cards that "you can only get via specific other cards".
This could very well be it. But it would be interesting if some B*'s were actually the upgrades to multiple As. Or at least I think it could be interesting. Imagine two very different As that can both upgrade to the same B (they would probably cost the same, or would have different upgrade conditions to cover the discrepancy).
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I'm thinking more on the lines of Feast, but with specific upgrade paths, i.e. buy A from supply, trash it to get B* (not in supply), trash that to get C* (not in supply). The description did mention many cards that "you can only get via specific other cards".
This could very well be it. But it would be interesting if some B*'s were actually the upgrades to multiple As. Or at least I think it could be interesting. Imagine two very different As that can both upgrade to the same B (they would probably cost the same, or would have different upgrade conditions to cover the discrepancy).
Sure. And maybe an A can upgrade into B1 or B2. There could be a multiple branching paths.
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Sure. And maybe an A can upgrade into B1 or B2. There could be a multiple branching paths.
Branching paths.... *googley eyes*
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Just because the theme is upgrading/trash doesnt mean all the cards have to be on theme. I mean, seaside's theme is next turn, but that only really applies to maybe half of the cards in the set.
Eh
Treasure Map - Golds next turn
Pirate Ship - offtheme
Treasury - Peddle next turn
Ghost Ship - Draw your crap next turn
Ambassador - offtheme
Native Village - Store up for later turns
Fishing Village -
Island - Offtheme
Embargo - Offtheme
Haven -
Outpost -
Lookout - prepare a good draw for next turn
Navigator - prepare a good draw for next turn
Warehouse - offtheme
Wharf -
Explorer - offtheme
Sea Hag - Draw a curse next turn
Smugglers - offtheme
Pearl Diver - Draw a pearl next turn
Caravan -
Merchant Ship -
Salvager - offtheme
Bazaar - offtheme
Cutpurse - offtheme
Lighthouse -
Tactician -
16/26 are on-theme by my count.
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Sure. And maybe an A can upgrade into B1 or B2. There could be a multiple branching paths.
Branching paths.... *googley eyes*
:o :o :o
Yeah I know but...
So much to over-analyze here. Let the wild speculation begin!
;D
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Pirate Ship - offtheme
Ambassador - offtheme
Island - Offtheme
Embargo - Offtheme
Warehouse - offtheme
Explorer - offtheme
Smugglers - offtheme
Salvager - offtheme
Bazaar - offtheme
Cutpurse - offtheme
16/26 are on-theme by my count.
Pirate Ship sort of affects a turn way down the line, in that you keep building it up over time.
Embargo has an affect on purchases on all future turns.
Smugglers works in a backwards sort of way -- if your opponent has Smugglers, what you buy this turn may affect their next turn.
Cutpurse works in that it can affect your opponent's next turn.
I admit, those are all a bit of a stretch. :P
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From the Secret History of Prosperity
$5; City. As printed except for wording. The idea for this card came from the Seaside outtake that cared about the trash, and of course Trade Route. I needed cards in the set that interacted with other players but weren't attacks, so I could have fewer attacks overall (so that Colony would usually be reachable) but still have enough interaction. One thing to do is to look at shared data - the piles. Trade Route cares if a pile isn't full; this cares if a pile is empty. Those were just the two simplest things to check.
Looks like the combination of upgradeable cards and cards that cared about the trash have been intertwined for quite a while...
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Pirate Ship - offtheme
Ambassador - offtheme
Island - Offtheme
Embargo - Offtheme
Warehouse - offtheme
Explorer - offtheme
Smugglers - offtheme
Salvager - offtheme
Bazaar - offtheme
Cutpurse - offtheme
16/26 are on-theme by my count.
Pirate Ship sort of affects a turn way down the line, in that you keep building it up over time.
Embargo has an affect on purchases on all future turns.
Smugglers works in a backwards sort of way -- if your opponent has Smugglers, what you buy this turn may affect their next turn.
Cutpurse works in that it can affect your opponent's next turn.
I admit, those are all a bit of a stretch. :P
In addition, Island saves things for a later date. And Pirate Ship very very very much is about future turns - buying a Pirate Ship is really more of an investment than anything else, and if you use it right, it pays off. I've gotten PS's all the way up to yielding $8 sometimes, and then I just buy a Province every turn.
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Magician
Action - Reaction ($4)
"Trash a card from your hand. You may gain a card with equal or lower cost."
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"When a card is placed on a pile, you may reveal this card from your hand and discard it. If you…
-Trashed a card, gain it (to your Discard pile)
-Gained a card, place it on your deck
-Placed a card on your deck, place it in your hand"
Cool! Play Magician, trash a Fool's Gold, reveal Magician, gain it, reveal Magician, put it on deck, reveal Magician, put it into hand!
Actually no. You have to discard the Magician after you reveal it.
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I'm thinking more on the lines of Feast, but with specific upgrade paths, i.e. buy A from supply, trash it to get B* (not in supply), trash that to get C* (not in supply). The description did mention many cards that "you can only get via specific other cards".
My speculation along these lines: of the 35 kingdom cards, only 25 are regular cards coming with randomizers. This would fit with usual numbers. Now 10 of these 25 cards are upgradable, and whenever one of this card is in the supply, the upgraded version comes also in the supply, but can be gained only in a very specific way.
How you can get the upgraded version depends on the card. An random example to explain what I mean (didn't try to balance the card)
Small town (cost 4, +2 action, +1 card).
During your clean-up phase, if you bought at least a victory card, trash this card and gain a Town
Town (cost 4*, +2 action, +2 cards)
Cannot be bought/gained in any other way than trashing a small town
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My speculation along these lines: of the 35 kingdom cards, only 25 are regular cards coming with randomizers. This would fit with usual numbers. Now 10 of these 25 cards are upgradable, and whenever one of this card is in the supply, the upgraded version comes also in the supply, but can be gained only in a very specific way.
That's pretty much what I'm thinking, except I don't think the upgraded version(s) would count as part of the supply. Cards in the supply must be available for purchase. If you must gain them in other, special ways, they are separate from the Supply. Examples include Tournament prizes and cards in the Black Market.
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That mechanic would also make it really easy to interact with the trash, since the trash would accumulate all these useful intermediate stages of cards, which could be counted or gained or whatever.
Of course, some of the weaker trash-interaction cards might turn out to be the new Scouts, useful only with multiple other cards from their own expansion. But hey, that's not really a problem, nothing wrong with a set having a few weak or situational cards.
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Does Shelter sound a little bit like Island to anyone else? Imagine an Island that costs 3 that can't be set aside with another card, but only on it's own.
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BUM
$4
Action - reaction
If you play this, you gain $1 this turn for every 3 cards in the trash.
When another player trashes a card, you may reveal this card. If you do, pick up that card from the trash.
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That's pretty much what I'm thinking, except I don't think the upgraded version(s) would count as part of the supply. Cards in the supply must be available for purchase. If you must gain them in other, special ways, they are separate from the Supply. Examples include Tournament prizes and cards in the Black Market.
You're right, that's much better (having the upgraded versions in the supply would allow them to count for the 3-piles ending, but anyway these piles would be hard to empty).
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Yeah, I think they're like Prizes.
Maybe you can upgrade a simple Guard Tower -> Keep -> Fortress -> Castle or something like that.
With multiple upgrades. It could give you a choice when you play the card:
Either
- Get the normal action, let's say +1 Card, +1 Action, +1 Buy, +$1
- Trash the card and get the upgraded version (but wait a round to play it), so you could get another card which has for instance +1 Card, +1 Action, +2 Buys. +$2
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Or both! A card that upgrades itself every time it's played.
Maybe then it starts out weak, at just +1 card +1 action, then after you play it once it turns into into a Peddler equivalent, then after you play it twice it's a market, after you play it three times it's a grand market.
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Does Shelter sound a little bit like Island to anyone else? Imagine an Island that costs 3 that can't be set aside with another card, but only on it's own.
Does a card that we know nothing about other than the name and that sometimes it will replace Estates at the beginning of the game sound like Island? No. Not at all.
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Does a card that we know nothing about other than the name and that sometimes it will replace Estates at the beginning of the game sound like Island? No. Not at all.
and why not? we don't know much of anything about these cards. rhombus's baseless speculation is just about as good as anyone else's out there.
keep it friendly folks.
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Does Shelter sound a little bit like Island to anyone else? Imagine an Island that costs 3 that can't be set aside with another card, but only on it's own.
Does a card that we know nothing about other than the name and that sometimes it will replace Estates at the beginning of the game sound like Island? No. Not at all.
We also know the name. And I assume that's the basis for comparison. I don't know whether Shelter as a name really sounds like an island to me, but I can see the logic. You use island to shelter cards out of your deck (on an island).
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I think Shelter will be a attack/victory card.
Shelter
0 VP
-----
Each other player gaines 10 curses.
Just to cement first player advantage.
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And than, as player 1, you open 5/2. ;D
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You're quietly conquering people, minding your own business, when suddenly there's a plague, or barbarians, or everyone's illiterate, and it's all you can do to cling to some wreckage as the storm passes through. Still, you are sure that, as always, you will triumph over this adversity, or at least do slightly better than everyone else.
Though the flavour text for an expansion can be misleading, this seems to be implying that we may be seeing a lot more games with scores in the single digits or negative scores. We can all get that Golf badge we've always wanted.
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BUM
$4
Action - reaction
If you play this, you gain $1 this turn for every 3 cards in the trash.
When another player trashes a card, you may reveal this card. If you do, pick up that card from the trash.
I've thought about that reaction before. If you would gain the actual trashed card, you run into the issue of who has priority if multiple players reveal. Though I suppose you could just prioritize by turn order or something. An alternative is to have you gain a copy from the Supply instead.
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I don't normally get into card speculation or creation, but the idea of a Beggar has me thinking. Here's my attempt:
Beggar
$5
Attack
Each other player must give you the least valuable treasure in their hand or reveal a hand with no treasures.
Basically, you don't give a beggar globs of money, just some spare change. As a beggar, you might only get coppers, or could get lucky with Gold. Although near useless in a two-player game, it could be killer in a multiplayer game.
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I don't normally get into card speculation or creation, but the idea of a Beggar has me thinking. Here's my attempt:
Beggar
$5
Attack
Each other player must give you the least valuable treasure in their hand or reveal a hand with no treasures.
Basically, you don't give a beggar globs of money, just some spare change. As a beggar, you might only get coppers, or could get lucky with Gold. Although near useless in a two-player game, it could be killer in a multiplayer game.
It should probably just say "passes you a Treasure card". Leave it up to the opponents to give you the worst one, which they always should expect in extreme rare cases. You don't want to use the word "valuable" in regards to Treasure, as how "valuable" the card is is a matter of subjection.
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I'm thinking more on the lines of Feast, but with specific upgrade paths, i.e. buy A from supply, trash it to get B* (not in supply), trash that to get C* (not in supply). The description did mention many cards that "you can only get via specific other cards".
My speculation along these lines: of the 35 kingdom cards, only 25 are regular cards coming with randomizers. This would fit with usual numbers. Now 10 of these 25 cards are upgradable, and whenever one of this card is in the supply, the upgraded version comes also in the supply, but can be gained only in a very specific way.
The description says that there are 500 cards in this expansion, including 35 new Kingdom cards to Dominion. If as many as 10 (admittedly a high estimate) of these are victory cards, then the total number of Kingdom cards with randomizers would be 405. Since Ruins has the sound of a Curse-like card, we could easily estimate at least 50 of them for 6 players. That makes the total 455. Since Shelters replace starting Estates, in a 6 player game the most you would need would be 18. That leaves at least 25 cards unaccounted for.
Those last 25 cards are probably the "cards you can only get via specific other cards". So rather than some of the Kingdom cards being the cards that you upgrade into, would it be more likely that these 25 cards would be the ones you upgrade into?
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I'm looking forward to the spoiler posts. Hopefully Donald can finish them before the cat gets let out of the bag this year. It was great previewing them 2 at a time for Hinterlands.
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I'm looking forward to the spoiler posts. Hopefully Donald can finish them before the cat gets let out of the bag this year. It was great previewing them 2 at a time for Hinterlands.
Seconded.
I love being wrong.
Jack? Meeeh, it does 3 things poorly, you'd rather do 1 thing well...
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Not to break up the interesting discussion, but, uh, the first post here (which I made) has 13 thumbs (at time of writing). I mean, 13 thumbs, for basically standing up in a group of people and shouting 'first!'. I'm not complaining that much, since I like the sudden jump in respect, but... it's basically reverse shooting the messenger, you know.
And now back on topic with discussion: Willvon's numbers make a lot of sense, but those estimates are pretty precise, and not really very certain. If there's a supply pile for Shelters, then there could be only 13 or so unique-gain cards, or perhaps there's a lot fewer Ruins/Shelters and there could be many more. But either way I think his estimate is pretty good.
And I loved the flavour text, as always. It does seem to suggest things are going to become much 'harder', as in perhaps more attacks, slower strategies and the like... perhaps, more cheap cards to compensate?
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And I loved the flavour text, as always. It does seem to suggest things are going to become much 'harder', as in perhaps more attacks, slower strategies and the like... perhaps, more cheap cards to compensate?
I think I'd be inclined to assume that Dark Ages, like Seaside, is going to favor cheaper cards. It's interesting when we have discussions about themes of the expansions, everyone always mentions that Prosperity focuses on expensive cards, but only ever mention Durations for Seaside. Seaside is the only set without a card costing more than $5, and has the most $2 cards of any set. I'd say cheap cards are at least a secondary theme for Seaside. But if Dark Ages doesn't have the same (or more of an) emphasis on cheapness, I won't do something I'll cliche-ly threaten to do.
EDIT: Seaside also has the most Attacks of any set, so there's that, as well, which I also believe Dark Ages will have in common with it.
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Not to break up the interesting discussion, but, uh, the first post here (which I made) has 13 thumbs (at time of writing). I mean, 13 thumbs, for basically standing up in a group of people and shouting 'first!'. I'm not complaining that much, since I like the sudden jump in respect, but... it's basically reverse shooting the messenger, you know.
We like information. We like being told new information, especially about new expansions. We also know that it will show up at the bottom of the main forum thing as the top-upvoted thing, which will make people look at it, which will produce more discussion. Win win win win.
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Not to break up the interesting discussion, but, uh, the first post here (which I made) has 13 thumbs (at time of writing). I mean, 13 thumbs, for basically standing up in a group of people and shouting 'first!'. I'm not complaining that much, since I like the sudden jump in respect, but... it's basically reverse shooting the messenger, you know.
And now back on topic with discussion: Willvon's numbers make a lot of sense, but those estimates are pretty precise, and not really very certain. If there's a supply pile for Shelters, then there could be only 13 or so unique-gain cards, or perhaps there's a lot fewer Ruins/Shelters and there could be many more. But either way I think his estimate is pretty good.
And I loved the flavour text, as always. It does seem to suggest things are going to become much 'harder', as in perhaps more attacks, slower strategies and the like... perhaps, more cheap cards to compensate?
FYI, I respect you for making this post.
We tried shooting the messenger. Didn't work out very well (kept running out of messengers). So respecting the hell of of them was our second plan. Seems to be working well so far. I sympathize with your predicament, though... if it makes you feel any better, I suspected that you'd feel that way, so even back then I decided not to respect you. Happy? ;D
On topic with your third point: I also really like the flavor text, but for different reasons. The style is what gets me. I love it. Very very good stuff, the dry humor is.
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I think I'd be inclined to assume that Dark Ages, like Seaside, is going to favor cheaper cards. It's interesting when we have discussions about themes of the expansions, everyone always mentions that Prosperity focuses on expensive cards, but only ever mention Durations for Seaside. Seaside is the only set without a card costing more than $5, and has the most $2 cards of any set. I'd say cheap cards are at least a secondary theme for Seaside. But if Dark Ages doesn't have the same (or more of an) emphasis on cheapness, I won't do something I'll cliche-ly threaten to do.
I'm not going to try to find the link right now, but I believe Donald said at some point that he put more cheap cards in Seaside (specifically $2 cards) because Prosperity was going to have so many expensive cards (and no $2 cards).
EDIT: Seaside also has the most Attacks of any set, so there's that, as well, which I also believe Dark Ages will have in common with it.
The base set also has 5 Attack cards.
EDIT: It turns out he said it in the Secret History of Prosperity (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=119.0).
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And than, as player 1, you open 5/2. ;D
That's why there is still chance to the game. :)
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I think I'd be inclined to assume that Dark Ages, like Seaside, is going to favor cheaper cards. It's interesting when we have discussions about themes of the expansions, everyone always mentions that Prosperity focuses on expensive cards, but only ever mention Durations for Seaside. Seaside is the only set without a card costing more than $5, and has the most $2 cards of any set. I'd say cheap cards are at least a secondary theme for Seaside. But if Dark Ages doesn't have the same (or more of an) emphasis on cheapness, I won't do something I'll cliche-ly threaten to do.
It's interesting to look at the mean cost per card across the expansions. If my numbers are correct, I get:
Base: 3.96 ($/card)
Intrigue: 3.96
Seaside: 3.73
Alchemy: 2.66 + 0.83P
Prosperity: 5.12
Cornucopia: 4.15
Hinterlands: 4.12
Promo: 4.20
Total: 4.10 + 0.06P
As expected, Prosperity is the highest, but Cornucopia and Hinterlands are clearly more expensive in general than the first three. And as stated, Seaside has the cheapest mean card cost. If you say that Potion in a cost is worth about 2.5, Alchemy is easily the second most expensive expansion at around 4.74. Note that this calculation counts Peddler at $8 and only includes Kingdom cards - no regular Treasures, Victories, or Curses.
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Re: The upgrade actions/ cards you can only gain via other cards.
Is anyone else thinking of the hero cards in Thunderstone? Perhaps including the fact that there will be fewer than 10 of the level 2 and level 3 versions, so it will be a race to upgrade?
If so, a lot of people will hate those cards.
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Re: The upgrade actions/ cards you can only gain via other cards.
Is anyone else thinking of the hero cards in Thunderstone? Perhaps including the fact that there will be fewer than 10 of the level 2 and level 3 versions, so it will be a race to upgrade?
If so, a lot of people will hate those cards.
I was thinking that there would be MORE of the special upgraded cards than the upgrade-able cards in the Supply, so that you could make a "gain from trash" card not only worth it but necessary, in order to get more of the good stuff. So for example:
The supply includes Twig (10 copies, standard). There are two special cards, Torch and Bonfire.
Twig - $2
+1 Card, +$1. You may trash this to gain a Torch. You may reveal and trash a second Twig to gain Bonfire instead.
Torch - $3* (not in supply)
+2 Cards, +$1. You may trash this and a Twig or a second Torch from your hand to gain a Bonfire.
Bonfire - $5* (not in supply)
+2 Cards, +$1, +1 Action. Choose one: gain a Twig or Torch from the trash; or trash any number of Twigs and Torches from your hand for $2 each.
And of course, a separate trash-gainer would help you recover those precious Twigs more quickly.
Edit: By the way, my use of twigs stems (semi-pun semi-intended) from the text:
You beg twigs from the villagers, and they beg them back, but no-one really seems to come out ahead.
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We also know that it will show up at the bottom of the main forum thing as the top-upvoted thing, which will make people look at it, which will produce more discussion. Win win win win.
We're Pearl Divers?
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My prediction: There will be a card costing $1.
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My prediction: There will not be a card costing $1.
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My prediction: the average cost will stay about the same as Intrigue and Base, if no other currency is created. If not, I agree with play2draw. I think there will be a card costing $1. If so, God help us all. Potions, and now this!?! Complicated indeed.
Very much can be assumed by knowing the title. Dark Ages implies some cheap cards... possibly something $1? No one knows for sure…except Donald…I envy him…cannot wait for this expansion…
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I sure hope nothing costs $1! That would make a number of potential ways for trashing estates/coppers more risky or at least not as helpful when those cards are in the supply. I recall, someone, in the commentaries Donald wrote about the other expansions that he deliberately said "gain a card costing exactly $1 more" so that you wouldn't end up drawing curses when you trash coppers or something to that extent.
Edit: it would be nice if I could spell.
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I sure hope nothing costs $1! That would make a number of potential ways for trashing etates/coppers more risky or at least not as helpful when those cards are in the supply. I recall, someone, in the commentaries Donald wrote about the other expansions that he deliberately said "gain a card costing exactly $1 more" so that you wouldn't end up drawing curses when you trash coppers or something to that extent.
I don't think there will be a $1, mostly because they will be generally worthless unless there is +buy. But I also remember how before Prosperity came out, everyone was quite sure that there would never be a $7 cost, and was also saying how it would ruin everything if there were!
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For $2, we have a cantrip that lets you look at the bottom of your deck. What could be so much less powerful than that to merit a $1 cost? A card that just says +1 Card? Or maybe just "Discard a card." Besides the whole Remodel family issues with that cost, what shit-tastic card could you feasibly come up with to merit that cost? And would anyone ever buy it?
The $7 cards just ruin Remodel family interactions, and mess with the Gold/Province dilemma. But the things these cards do (for the most part) justify their cost. I can't think of any Action that would justify a $1 cost.
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For $2, we have a cantrip that lets you look at the bottom of your deck. What could be so much less powerful than that to merit a $1 cost? A card that just says +1 Card? Or maybe just "Discard a card." Besides the whole Remodel family issues with that cost, what shit-tastic card could you feasibly come up with to merit that cost? And would anyone ever buy it?
The $7 cards just ruin Remodel family interactions, and mess with the Gold/Province dilemma. But the things these cards do (for the most part) justify their cost. I can't think of any Action that would justify a $1 cost.
If there is a $1 card, I fully expect that ruining Upgrade/Remake interactions will be a big rationale for its existence!
And it doesn't necessarily need to be an Action- a Copper-with-a-bonus Treasure might work, especially if that bonus is +Buy. Or maybe it's a pure Reaction. Or either Shelter or Ruins could be $1. Upgrading those things into Estate seems like it'd make thematic sense, if nothing else.
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"+1 Buy"?
There's no reason $1 cards can't work: it's more design space to be explored.
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Maybe you could have a card costing 1 that was like Peddler and increased in certain circumstances
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Could be as easy as a reverse Peddler.
Reverse Peddler - $1*
Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+$1
*This card costs $2 more for every action played this turn (counting this).
I'm not saying this is a good or balanced card (far from it), but the idea of a card that gets more expensive can be fun.
It has fun interactions with trash for benefits. Play two of these cards and you can Remake (if Remake is the 3rd card, this card is worth $7) two more into Provinces!
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Too many people assume $1 must be something extremely bad, worse than something costing $2. That doesn't really have to be the case. It could be something to reward extra buys (e.g. I had a card that cost $1 in a fan expansion which gave you an extra turn and skipped your cleanup phase when bought, and a few other things), to mess with upgrade effects, or various other possible reasons.
It could well be that Shelters are a $1 card, you know.
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Could be as easy as a reverse Peddler.
Reverse Peddler - $1*
Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+$1
*This card costs $2 more for every action played this turn (counting this).
I'm not saying this is a good or balanced card (far from it), but the idea of a card that gets more expensive can be fun.
It has fun interactions with trash for benefits. Play two of these cards and you can Remake (if Remake is the 3rd card, this card is worth $7) two more into Provinces!
Actually that card is very interesting, because it's awesome for its price the first couple times you buy it, but gets progressively harder to buy at that price (once you play a few reverse peddlers the price of an additional one gets pretty steep). This would be great in curse-heavy games.
By the way, to be a true reverse peddler the cost adjustment would only occur during the buy phase.
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I'm expecting Rubble to be like that fan card I saw once, "0$ Action - +1 Action. Trash this card"
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By the way, to be a true reverse peddler the cost adjustment would only occur during the buy phase.
I beg to differ: the cost adjustment would occur in every phase EXCEPT for the buy phase. ;)
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Did anyone else notice the game's length is measured in "minutes minutes"?
Physics students in the room can read that as, "minutes squared." Apparently, Rio Grande has admitted to how grossly off the 30 minute length was and has started measuring time in the fifth dimension as well. Has anyone else figured out how square minutes work? I certainly can't.
On topic though, I'm pretty excited. 500 cards, 35 kingdom cards, Shelters, and Ruins make (35*10 + 35 + 24 + 30) 439 cards announced right off the bat. That leaves us with 61 undefined cards in the set: Plenty of room for all kinds of "upgrade" shenanigans.
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On topic though, I'm pretty excited. 500 cards, 35 kingdom cards, Shelters, and Ruins make (35*10 + 35 + 24 + 30) 439 cards announced right off the bat. That leaves us with 61 undefined cards in the set: Plenty of room for all kinds of "upgrade" shenanigans.
I'm fully expecting a stack of 60 cards each labeled "Undefined," with no art.
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I'm fully expecting a stack of 60 cards each labeled "Undefined," with no art.
That would cause... Confusion.
http://instantyeah.org/
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By the way, to be a true reverse peddler the cost adjustment would only occur during the buy phase.
I beg to differ: the cost adjustment would occur in every phase EXCEPT for the buy phase. ;)
Why stop there?
Relddep:
Discard one card
-1 action
-$1
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Joe Childers (MainiacJoe) on BGG mentioned Baron, which is really good point. Assume Donald knew about Shelter's when he made Baron, I thought of several "solutions":
1. Baron is a bad card when playing with shelters instead of estates
2. Shelters are actually named "Estate Shelter" or "Estate - Shelter".
3. You get to choose whether to start with 3 Estates or 3 Shelters in your deck, both are in the supply :D
(I see to remember Shelters replace Estates in your starting deck" sometimes, it'd be quite cool if you got the choice)
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Once again, is there any reason we're assuming that all three of your starting Estates are replaced with Shelters rather than just one or two?
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Once again, is there any reason we're assuming that all three of your starting Estates are replaced with Shelters rather than just one or two?
Is there any reason we're assuming anything? I think this is just getting thrown out as wild speculation because we're bored, we're interested, we want something to talk about, and we have very little solid information. But no, I don't think there's any reason to assume that.
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Once again, is there any reason we're assuming that all three of your starting Estates are replaced with Shelters rather than just one or two?
Is there any reason we're assuming anything? I think this is just getting thrown out as wild speculation because we're bored, we're interested, we want something to talk about, and we have very little solid information. But no, I don't think there's any reason to assume that.
+1 for, well, telling the truth.
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The only assumption I'm making is that the card will have been tested and balanced.
I don't see any fundamental problem with a $1 card - it would force rethinking certain upgrade paths but most new expansions force rethinking how older cards work.
Fundamentally, the key to this set would seem to hinge on how cards that care about the Trash are handled. Removing cards from the trash, checking the contents of the trash, and checking the number of cards in the trash are all different concepts.
Consider Example: Dumpster Diver ($X) - Action -
Under the first: Gain a Trashed Card
Under the second: Gain a Copy of a Trashed Card
Under the third: You May Gain a Card Costing $1 for every 3 Trashed Cards
With the first the card is no longer in the trash (and unavailable for anybody else). With the second the card remains trashed but a copy is removed from the supply. In the third case the card becomes more powerful as the number of cards in the trash grows.
In any case, the expansion is going to make us pay attention to the trash. Something is going to get reconsidered, probably trash for benefit cards (e.g. Bishop), mass trashers (e.g. Chapel), or upgraders (e.g. Remake). More importantly, expansion sets tend to have cards that work well together. The same-set combos of trash / upgrade seem quite interesting.
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I'd like them to make a 1 cost card, would be interesting with multiple buys and with some cards like Upgrade. Here's my idea:
Super Loan (1)
Action
+1 Action
+2$
Trash this.
So basically it's a silver you can only use once. Worth getting with multiple buys, worth getting when you only have 2 or 1 money, doesn't bloat your deck like crappy terminal 2's like Duchess, but also doesn't feel overpowered as a 1-cost card since you would never ever buy it when you have 3 money like many 2's (because you could just get a silver).
edit: also would work with the trash theme in the set although i'm sure if there's a trash theme there's already a few one-shots.
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Hmm.
Did anyone else get a Masquerade/Ambassador vibe from the Beggar text?
I have several thoughts on possible card text for a Beggar, mostly based on this.
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Hmm.
Did anyone else get a Masquerade/Ambassador vibe from the Beggar text?
I have several thoughts on possible card text for a Beggar, mostly based on this.
So will Estate Tennis turn into Shelter Tennis?
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So will Estate Tennis turn into Shelter Tennis?
I vote for Shelter Badminton.
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So will Estate Tennis turn into Shelter Tennis?
I vote for Shelter Badminton.
Sheltercock. Kind of works.
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Expansion sets are usually defined by their victory card and cursing card, playing on their themes. It would suggest something like this...
Ravine ($X - Victory): Worth 1 VP per every X card in the trash
Plague ($X - Action - Attack): Trash this Card. Each Other Player Reveals Their Hand and Gains A Curse for Each Victory Card in Hand (or Shows a Hand with No Victory Cards)
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Expansion sets are usually defined by their victory card and cursing card, playing on their themes. It would suggest something like this...
Ravine ($X - Victory): Worth 1 VP per every X card in the trash
Plague ($X - Action - Attack): Trash this Card. Each Other Player Reveals Their Hand and Gains A Curse for Each Victory Card in Hand (or Shows a Hand with No Victory Cards)
There might not be a Curser in this game, what with Ruins and all. Hard to say!
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There might not be a Curser in this game, what with Ruins and all. Hard to say!
That's what I was thinking. There are only eight cards that directly give out curses. With 35 cards in this set, who's to say that Dark Ages won't have 6-8 "ruinous" cards?
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Hmm..
Ruined Province
8$ (or maybe less? like 7 so you can upgrade it back?)
4VP
Not in supply*
Ruined Duchy
5$ (or 4$)
2VP
Not in supply*
Ruined Estate
2$ (or 1$)
0VP
Not in supply*
Ruined Colony
11$ (or 10$)
9VP
Not in supply*
Barbarians
X$
+2 cards
Each opponent reveal cards until he reveals a (basic?) Victory card. They trashes it and gains a Ruined Victory card instead.
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Hmm..
Ruined Province
8$ (or maybe less? like 7 so you can upgrade it back?)
4VP
Not in supply*
Ruined Duchy
5$ (or 4$)
3VP
Not in supply*
Ruined Duchy
2$ (or 1$)
0VP
Not in supply*
Ruined Colony
11$ (or 10$)
9VP
Not in supply*
Barbarians
X$
+2 cards
Each opponent reveal cards until he reveals a (basic?) Victory card. They trashes it and gains a Ruined Victory card instead.
I like this idea, but I think it would be overkill to have four different Ruins cards. And if they did it, I'd like to think that Colony would be untouched (since Colonies are way across the sea).
Your Ruined Duchy should be 2VP, right? And the second one should be Ruined Estate. :)
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Yeah, c/p errors.
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Hmm..
Ruined Province
8$ (or maybe less? like 7 so you can upgrade it back?)
4VP
Not in supply*
Ruined Duchy
5$ (or 4$)
2VP
Not in supply*
Ruined Estate
2$ (or 1$)
0VP
Not in supply*
Ruined Colony
11$ (or 10$)
9VP
Not in supply*
Barbarians
X$
+2 cards
Each opponent reveal cards until he reveals a (basic?) Victory card. They trashes it and gains a Ruined Victory card instead.
How do you extend that to other Victory cards? What if someone only bought Gardens or Tunnels or something? I'm thinking there's going to be only one type of Ruins. And if they're a different color, my money is on red.
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How do you extend that to other Victory cards? What if someone only bought Gardens or Tunnels or something? I'm thinking there's going to be only one type of Ruins. And if they're a different color, my money is on red.
He did say "Basic" victory cards. :P
I will guess that Ruins will be a medium-dark grey or a drab green.
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I am guessing some...black? Or some darker color...
Most likely not grey, Actions are grey already.
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...
Each opponent reveal cards until he reveals a (basic?) Victory card. They trashes it and gains a Ruined Victory card instead.
How do you extend that to other Victory cards? What if someone only bought Gardens or Tunnels or something? I'm thinking there's going to be only one type of Ruins. And if they're a different color, my money is on red.
Either:
a) hits only basic card, as I said or
b) you luck out, your Gardens just go to waste. (Barbs discourage alternate victories)
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I am guessing some...black? Or some darker color...
Most likely not grey, Actions are grey already.
Well, that's why I said dark grey. :P
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Cards that require either cards to be gained... here's a thought:
Tourna-DarkAges-ment
Action - $4
+1 Action
Every player reveals a Curse.
If you do, discard it, and gain a Dark Ages Prize.
If no one else does, +$1, +1 Card.
--------------
In games using this, add Super Curser as an extra Kingdom pile.
Super Curser
Action-Attack - $2
Discard a card. Each other player gains a Curse.
Then the Dark Ages Prizes are all sorts of wackiness.
My original idea was to have one card both deal out Curses and do the Prize-gaining thing, but that would just cause too much AP as you try to decide whether Cursing an opponent is worth potentially giving them a Prize. At any rate, Super Curser combos with Tunnel.
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For cards that care about the trash, I'm thinking there'll be a trade route like card like
Squat:
Cost: 5
You may trash a card from your hand
Search the trash pile for cards costing 5 or more
If you find at least one:
Action: +2 actions
Treasure: +2 coin, +1 buy
Victory: +2 cards
So you can get an extremely powerful card, but at the opportunity cost of buying and trading strong cards. Then your opponents can profit off your hard work.
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Or even more simply, an action/victory trasher that gives victory points based off the size of the trash pile. Or, more interestingly, the total cost of it. The trash pile is shared, so anything based off it gets the "interactive without attacks" thing going, which IMO makes for the most fun cards.
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Since it's dark ages I'm thinking there'll be an attack card that will make torturer look pleasant. If the theme is trash;
Emperor:
Each other player draws a card, then reveals a card from his hand. He either trashes it, or gains a copy of it and puts both it and the revealed card on top of his deck; your choice. You may also gain a copy of the revealed card.
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Since it's dark ages I'm thinking there'll be an attack card that will make torturer look pleasant. If the theme is trash;
Emperor:
Each other player draws a card, then reveals a card from his hand. He either trashes it, or gains a copy of it and puts both it and the revealed card on top of his deck; your choice. You may also gain a copy of the revealed card.
I don't think they'll make cards that make card-destruction pins easier.
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Since it's dark ages I'm thinking there'll be an attack card that will make torturer look pleasant. If the theme is trash;
Emperor:
Each other player draws a card, then reveals a card from his hand. He either trashes it, or gains a copy of it and puts both it and the revealed card on top of his deck; your choice. You may also gain a copy of the revealed card.
I don't think they'll make cards that make card-destruction pins easier.
Note the card draw, so your hand is always the same size after the attack.
Noble Brigand was an outtake from this set, so I wouldn't be surprised to see more trashing attacks. So far we have Thief, Swindler, Saboteur, Pirate Ship and Noble Brigand.
I'm also thinking we'll get a village type card that trashes heavily. Something like +2 actions, +1 Card, Trash 2 cards which will be godly early game but become a liability to build an engine out of. There hasn't been a card yet where trashing is a flaw (except maybe lookout, but only because you don't know what you might have to trash).
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Donald X is going to be previewing THREE cards per day, from August 6th to 10th!
http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/813760/where-are-the-spoilers
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Also - more on the speculation side - I'd like to see a +2 Actions attack, so I can play a board with all Attacks. It most likely would not draw any cards, given that cantrip Attacks are so powerful you need a Potion to get one. It could even be something mild, like a Spy or Bureaucrat style thing - I'd just really like to play an all Attacks board.
While we're at it, I think a $2 Attack might be interesting as well, both to round out my fantasy board, and because I think a cheap Attack would fit well with the Dark Ages feel.
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cantrip Attacks are so powerful you need a Potion to get one.
...Spy. But for good attacks that is true. :)
Although something like a Village-plus-Militia-effect would be a reasonable $5, since Margrave somewhat resembles a Smithy-plus-Militia-effect. The non-terminal-ness would not matter too much since there'd be no benefit from stacking them.
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cantrip Attacks are so powerful you need a Potion to get one.
...Spy. But for good attacks that is true. :)
Although something like a Village-plus-Militia-effect would be a reasonable $5, since Margrave somewhat resembles a Smithy-plus-Militia-effect. The non-terminal-ness would not matter too much since there'd be no benefit from stacking them.
Although there's no benefit from stacking them, there is still an issue that if they are cantrips, you can buy as many as you want, so you can more easily ensure that you play it every single turn. Of course, once you have a good engine going, you are going to play Ghost Ship or Margrave every turn anyway, but you have to build up to that point. Even if an attack doesn't stack, it should be difficult to play one every turn. Hmmm, Minion is almost a cantrip attack. Though it doesn't directly give +1 card when you play it; the fact that you can get a new hand of 4 cards menas that it plays like a cantrip.
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cantrip Attacks are so powerful you need a Potion to get one.
...Spy. But for good attacks that is true. :)
Although something like a Village-plus-Militia-effect would be a reasonable $5, since Margrave somewhat resembles a Smithy-plus-Militia-effect. The non-terminal-ness would not matter too much since there'd be no benefit from stacking them.
Although there's no benefit from stacking them, there is still an issue that if they are cantrips, you can buy as many as you want, so you can more easily ensure that you play it every single turn. Of course, once you have a good engine going, you are going to play Ghost Ship or Margrave every turn anyway, but you have to build up to that point. Even if an attack doesn't stack, it should be difficult to play one every turn. Hmmm, Minion is almost a cantrip attack. Though it doesn't directly give +1 card when you play it; the fact that you can get a new hand of 4 cards menas that it plays like a cantrip.
But Minion, like Militia, only does damage once per turn.
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cantrip Attacks are so powerful you need a Potion to get one.
...Spy. But for good attacks that is true. :)
Although something like a Village-plus-Militia-effect would be a reasonable $5, since Margrave somewhat resembles a Smithy-plus-Militia-effect. The non-terminal-ness would not matter too much since there'd be no benefit from stacking them.
Although there's no benefit from stacking them, there is still an issue that if they are cantrips, you can buy as many as you want, so you can more easily ensure that you play it every single turn. Of course, once you have a good engine going, you are going to play Ghost Ship or Margrave every turn anyway, but you have to build up to that point. Even if an attack doesn't stack, it should be difficult to play one every turn. Hmmm, Minion is almost a cantrip attack. Though it doesn't directly give +1 card when you play it; the fact that you can get a new hand of 4 cards menas that it plays like a cantrip.
Possible solutions -- It could give Crossroads-style +actions, where it only works on first play. It could be a disappearing village, so spamming them would be bad without another drawing card.
As far as a Militia-Village attack goes, I think it would be neater if it DID stack, to an extent. So instead of "discard down to 3", make it "each other with more than 3 cards in hand discards 1 card", thus stacking twice.
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As far as a Militia-Village attack goes, I think it would be neater if it DID stack, to an extent. So instead of "discard down to 3", make it "each other with more than 3 cards in hand discards 1 card", thus stacking twice.
I agree, but probably the best type of cantrip attack-that-stacks-up-to-a-point is Spy/Scrying Pool. You can be hit by a lot of them, and it stacks up until you hit a card that they want you to put back.
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Another thing - we've only ever had Action-Attacks. I don't see how a Victory-Attack could possibly work, but a Treasure-Attack could. It would have to be expensive and/or innocuous in order to be balanced, but it would still cause Moat, Secret Chamber, Lighthouse and Horse Traders to react, unlike IGG.
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The attack would have to be pretty weak or else it might end up comboing too well with Torturer, Rabble and Margrave (or even Ghost Ship and Witch) to make engines. It will be incredibly easy to chain the attack village itself, so they can't chain too well.
Hell, maybe the "attack" could actually be helpful. I like it when I have a moat in hand but I don't reveal it because I can get something out of the attack (such as discarding tunnels off a militia), or when attacks end up "backfiring" (like swindling a peddler into a province because the peddler pile was empty). Something like:
Poorhouse
Cost: 4
+2 Actions
+1 Coin
Each other player discards a card and gains a copper, putting it into his hand
Or even get rid of the discard and make it cheaper. The complete opposite of stacking.
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The attack would have to be pretty weak or else it might end up comboing too well with Torturer, Rabble and Margrave (or even Ghost Ship and Witch) to make engines. It will be incredibly easy to chain the attack village itself, so they can't chain too well.
Hell, maybe the "attack" could actually be helpful. I like it when I have a moat in hand but I don't reveal it because I can get something out of the attack (such as discarding tunnels off a militia), or when attacks end up "backfiring" (like swindling a peddler into a province because the peddler pile was empty). Something like:
Poorhouse
Cost: 4
+2 Actions
+1 Coin
Each other player discards a card and gains a copper, putting it into his hand
Or even get rid of the discard and make it cheaper. The complete opposite of stacking.
I like this. Suggestion: instead of +1 coin, have "You may gain a Copper in hand." And maybe have the attack part linked to that: "If you do, each other player discards a card and gains a copper in hand."
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Has anyone already mentioned the idea of ruin being a kinda negative duke?
Something like worth -1 VP for every province/victory card you have in your deck?
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I'd like to bet 10 dominion dollars that Shelters, Ruins or both will be part of the first 3 cards revealed in the previews.
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I predict (or maybe would just like to see?) something like:
Junk Dealer - Reaction
When an opponent trashes a card, you may reveal this and gain a silver (or a card costing up to X)
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Yes, but that card would be useless in a game without trashers.
That's the problem every trash-reaction has, it needs to trash on its own.
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That's the problem every trash-reaction has, it needs to trash on its own.
... Or it needs to have another effect. Moat is not totally useless in games without attacks.
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Yes, but that card would be useless in a game without trashers.
That's the problem every trash-reaction has, it needs to trash on its own.
Charlatan - Action-Attack-Reaction
Trash a card. If you do, each other player gains a Curse.
---
When another player trashes a card, you may reveal this card. If you do, gain a Silver.
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Funny, "Charlatan" is the french name for mountebank.
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Funny, "Charlatan" is the french name for mountebank.
Maybe they'll call this one "Montebanque."
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I think Shelters will be a O VP Reaction card that prevents curses from going into your deck, and I think Ruins will be a sort of curse but also worth 0 VP, but maybe you can pay money to trash them but not be able to trash them normally like with Chapel and such. Also, I think that there will be no 6 cost or higher cards in this set. I predict it is designed for long and strategic game play.
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One of the interesting questions I have is: what trash for benefit cards in the currently released sets will have the greatest change in value (either positive or negative) with the introduction of Dark Ages? Just like Hinterlands made us all reevaluate Silver gainers like Bureaucrat and Explorer, I expect that Dark Ages will force us to find a new strategic depth to TFB. Will Remodel suddenly shine in new situations? Will Salvager become a powerhouse? Will Apprentice engines no longer look as enticing?
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I suspect that the power of various TFB cards may be either buffed or nerfed depending on the set. Like, depending on what's available, you either don't want to put any cards in the trash (for your opponent to use somehow) or you want to combo a TFB card with something that counts the trash yourself.
I suspect Apprentice will be buffed, since it's nonterminal, so if there's an action card that cares about the trash, you can play apprentice and then the trash-caring action. Same for Upgrade, I suspect.
How the terminal TFB cards will play will depend on whether the Dark Ages cards they match up with are terminal or nonterminal, and how many of each you need to get value out of them (is it worth building an engine just to make the combo work?)
Just speculation, of course.
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I had a thought. What if Ruins were a treasure card worth -1 that you were required to play? I realize that exact thing won't work because the rule isn't possible to enforce, but is there something similar that affects your money?
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Let's see if I can word this right. Obviously this isn't how it IS or even SHOULD be implemented. But it's how such a card COULD be.
Ruins
Treasure-Reaction -$0
-$1
When you discard this, set it aside
--
When you have no cards left on your deck, you may reveal any number of Ruins cards simultaneously.
---
When you have no cards left on your deck and are not looking at or revealing a card, if the number revealed plus the number of set aside Ruins is less than the number of Ruin tokens you have, you immediately lose the game.
---
When you trash this card, remove one Ruin token
---
When you gain this card, gain a Ruin token.
Yay for overcomplicating a simple idea! Also I'm sure there are edge cases where this STILL doesn't entirely work. But in short, I don't think there's a simple way to force a -$1 to be used while keeping people honest.
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Giving it a distinct back like Stash would work, not that I encourage variants discussion in the general board.
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It would, but it also makes it impossible to shuffle entirely fairly.
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It would, but it also makes it impossible to shuffle entirely fairly.
Maybe Ruins will have the rule that if you have Ruins in your deck, your opponent shuffles for you.
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It would, but it also makes it impossible to shuffle entirely fairly.
Maybe Ruins will have the rule that if you have Ruins in your deck, your opponent shuffles for you.
Same issue applies.
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It would, but it also makes it impossible to shuffle entirely fairly.
Maybe Ruins will have the rule that if you have Ruins in your deck, your opponent shuffles for you.
Same issue applies.
It would foster a desire to not have Ruins in your deck. They're supposed to be bad.
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If it has a unique back, then the rules pretty much have to say that after shuffling, you (or your opponent) get to put them anywhere in your deck.
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So that seems entirely unlikely to me.
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Just like Hinterlands made us all reevaluate Silver gainers like Bureaucrat and Explorer
I've heard this before but what's the argument for it? I mean, I can see Hinterlands gave us some strong Silver gainers, but how does it strengthen the existing ones? Just in the sense that Explorer is a good late addition to a Jack deck? I guess you can Farmland Silvers to Duchies which is nice? That's about it, I'm stumped.
Maybe Ruins will have the rule that if you have Ruins in your deck, your opponent shuffles for you.
This sounds like it would slow the game down horribly. Shuffling takes long enough already, but at least a lot of it is done while your opponent takes his turn.
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Just like Hinterlands made us all reevaluate Silver gainers like Bureaucrat and Explorer
I've heard this before but what's the argument for it? I mean, I can see Hinterlands gave us some strong Silver gainers, but how does it strengthen the existing ones? Just in the sense that Explorer is a good late addition to a Jack deck? I guess you can Farmland Silvers to Duchies which is nice? That's about it, I'm stumped.
I think when people realized Jack was so strong, they were like, hey, maybe gaining Silver ain't that bad after all.
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Just like Hinterlands made us all reevaluate Silver gainers like Bureaucrat and Explorer
I've heard this before but what's the argument for it? I mean, I can see Hinterlands gave us some strong Silver gainers, but how does it strengthen the existing ones? Just in the sense that Explorer is a good late addition to a Jack deck? I guess you can Farmland Silvers to Duchies which is nice? That's about it, I'm stumped.
I think when people realized Jack was so strong, they were like, hey, maybe gaining Silver ain't that bad after all.
I love how, both as individual players and as the Dominion community as a whole, we oscillate back and forth on how strong certain cards are. Chapel is stupid, Chapel is AWESOME, Chapel is meh, Chapel is sweet... Silver is ok, Silver is AWESOME, Silver is stupid, Silver's not bad... Chancellor is dumb, Chancellor is meh, Chancellor is terrible, Chancellor makes a couple killer combos but is still terrible...
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Chancellor is dumb, Chancellor is meh, Chancellor is terrible, Chancellor makes a couple killer combos but is still terrible...
That's not much of an oscillation... :)
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One day the chancellor cards fell out of the box and into a mud puddle and nothing of value was lost.
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One day the chancellor cards fell out of the box and into a mud puddle and nothing of value was lost.
Chancellor is supreme for swindling the opponent's $3 cards into.
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Chancellor is one of the most underrated cards in the game.
And yet it still sucks.
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Chancellor is a good card(When solving puzzles involving perfect shuffle luck)
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I could see using Chancellor if my opponent had all the Ghost Ships. Just to give me at least somewhat a chance of seeing cards I buy.
EDIT: ORRRRRRR play a Chancellor right before buying an Inn. That would be awesome.
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And of course Chancellor has its awesome combos. Like Chancellor-Stash. And... um...
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Chancellor is an integral part of the most broken three-card combo in Dominion: Chancellor-Counting House-Coppersmith
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Just like Hinterlands made us all reevaluate Silver gainers like Bureaucrat and Explorer
I've heard this before but what's the argument for it? I mean, I can see Hinterlands gave us some strong Silver gainers, but how does it strengthen the existing ones? Just in the sense that Explorer is a good late addition to a Jack deck? I guess you can Farmland Silvers to Duchies which is nice? That's about it, I'm stumped.
I think when people realized Jack was so strong, they were like, hey, maybe gaining Silver ain't that bad after all.
I love how, both as individual players and as the Dominion community as a whole, we oscillate back and forth on how strong certain cards are. Chapel is stupid, Chapel is AWESOME, Chapel is meh, Chapel is sweet... Silver is ok, Silver is AWESOME, Silver is stupid, Silver's not bad... Chancellor is dumb, Chancellor is meh, Chancellor is terrible, Chancellor makes a couple killer combos but is still terrible...
Ironworks/Workshop went from bad to mediocre.
Goons and Masquerade went from good to outstanding.
KC and Wharf went from great to unreal.
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Chancellor is an integral part of the most broken three-card combo in Dominion: Chancellor-Counting House-Coppersmith
I've used Vault to a similar effect - possibly greater, since you use the money twice.
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I could see using Chancellor if my opponent had all the Ghost Ships. Just to give me at least somewhat a chance of seeing cards I buy.
EDIT: ORRRRRRR play a Chancellor right before buying an Inn. That would be awesome.
Or even better, village, chancellor , university on Inn, + cards, Win. :)
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Chancellor is an integral part of the most broken three-card combo in Dominion: Chancellor-Counting House-Coppersmith
Also, the only problem with this is that it needs +Buy.
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Chancellor is an integral part of the most broken three-card combo in Dominion: Chancellor-Counting House-Coppersmith
Also, the only problem with this is that it needs +Buy.
also villages (to play 3 actions), card draw (to get those actions), and worst of all....copper
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Chancellor is an integral part of the most broken three-card combo in Dominion: Chancellor-Counting House-Coppersmith
Also, the only problem with this is that it needs +Buy.
also villages (to play 3 actions), card draw (to get those actions), and worst of all....copper
Vault solves the card draw, AND gives you more money. In fact, just ignore Chancellor and get Vault.
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Chancellor is an integral part of the most broken three-card combo in Dominion: Chancellor-Counting House-Coppersmith
Also, the only problem with this is that it needs +Buy.
also villages (to play 3 actions), card draw (to get those actions), and worst of all....copper
Hey man. Just run Crossroads/Chancellor/Counting House/Coppersmith/Market and you can get, like, two Provinces!
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Scheme+Golem+Chancellor+Counting House, buy copper early while lining up scheme golem. Profit
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Scheme+Golem+Chancellor+Counting House, buy copper early while lining up scheme golem. Profit
Still needs +Buy.
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Scheme+Golem+Chancellor+Counting House, buy copper early while lining up scheme golem. Profit
Still needs +Buy.
I ran a solo game with just Scheme+Golem+Counting House, and it's not too bad. In a Colony game, it's probably even dominant if there's nothing else going on.
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Guys.
Inn.
(seriously).
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Guys.
Inn.
(seriously).
I said Inn!
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You said in before whole CH/CprSmth shennenigans.
I meant with those 2. Easy peasy setup + actions to play that stuff! Only need some extra actions to shuffle in so that you do not trigger reshuffle with + Draw.
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You said in before whole CH/CprSmth shennenigans.
I meant with those 2. Easy peasy setup + actions to play that stuff! Only need some extra actions to shuffle in so that you do not trigger reshuffle with + Draw.
Still needs +Buy.
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Man you guys are brutal to Chancellor. He's not an all-star, I admit, but he serves a purpose in more games than you would imagine. Unlike, say, Develop, he's never TERRIBLE. He just isn't prioritized and thus is often forgotten about, especially without an abundance of actions.
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Man you guys are brutal to Chancellor. He's not an all-star, I admit, but he serves a purpose in more games than you would imagine. Unlike, say, Develop, he's never TERRIBLE. He just isn't prioritized and thus is often forgotten about, especially without an abundance of actions.
Chancellor could be a lot worse. He could be Duchess.
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Man you guys are brutal to Chancellor. He's not an all-star, I admit, but he serves a purpose in more games than you would imagine. Unlike, say, Develop, he's never TERRIBLE. He just isn't prioritized and thus is often forgotten about, especially without an abundance of actions.
Chancellor could be a lot worse. He could be Duchess.
Duchess could be a lot worse. She could be Scout.
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Scout could be a lot worse. He could be a Curse.
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Curse could be a lot worse. It could be two curses. :P
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Two Curses could be a lot worse. All of your cards could have burned up in a fire.
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All of your cards burned in a fire could be worse. They could all be Chancellor.
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It could be worse. They could all be Chancellors on fire.
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It could be worse. They could all be Chancellors on fire.
Some would argue that that would be better.
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This forum needs a Godwin's law style term for when a thread devolves into a discussion of how awful and/or underrated Chancellor is.
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Or if we had a button that allowed us to discard all posts. I bet that would come in useful a lot! ::)
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Wasn't this thread supposed to be about Dark Ages? Just over two weeks until previews!
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This forum needs a Godwin's law style term for when a thread devolves into a discussion of how awful and/or underrated Chancellor is.
We already have Godwin's style law.
Its called rrenaud's law.
(its about every discussion devolving into "Will iso go down with official app" discussion)
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Scout could be a lot worse. He could be a Curse.
Curse could be a lot worse. It could be a Blue Dog.
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We already have Godwin's style law.
Its called rrenaud's law.
(its about every discussion devolving into "Will iso go down with official app" discussion)
That's a strange thing to discuss, considering there's never been any ambiguity about it (as far as I've heard, anyhow).
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We already have Godwin's style law.
Its called rrenaud's law.
(its about every discussion devolving into "Will iso go down with official app" discussion)
That's a strange thing to discuss, considering there's never been any ambiguity about it (as far as I've heard, anyhow).
To be more general, I believe rrenaud's law just states that all threads eventually talk about the official app. Often it comes in the form of someone new hearing someone mention something about the new app and then asking "wait, there's a new app coming? When's it going to come out? Will isotropic go down when it does? Is there any information on it?"
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This forum needs a Godwin's law style term for when a thread devolves into a discussion of how awful and/or underrated Chancellor is.
We don't need a separate law. Hitler's official title from 1933-1945 was Chancellor of Germany.
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You mean Iso is going down?!?!
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Just over two weeks until previews! Who's excited?
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Just over two weeks until previews! Who's excited?
Um, I'm excited. Or were you looking for a comprehensive list of excited people? :)
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Just over two weeks until previews! Who's excited?
Um, I'm excited. Or were you looking for a comprehensive list of excited people? :)
Just trying to provoke some conversation. :)
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Sadly, I'll be on vacation and I won't have internet connection. >:(
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Just over two weeks until previews! Who's excited?
Um, I'm excited. Or were you looking for a comprehensive list of excited people? :)
Just trying to provoke some conversation. :)
Well, I'm excited, and I just wet myself.
Thanks a lot.
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Just over two weeks until previews! Who's excited?
Um, I'm excited. Or were you looking for a comprehensive list of excited people? :)
Just trying to provoke some conversation. :)
That's legit. Now that Donald has said that Dark Ages is his favorite set, I'm even more hyped, if possible.
Edit: Here's a conversation topic: Who's hoping that Shelters and Ruins will be revealed as necessary on top of the 3 reveals/day instead of counting against them? I'm not optimistic, though, since one of the three Alchemy cards revealed was Potion. ;)
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I've been playing too much Mafia because I was about to lambast you for editing your post. :D
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That's legit. Now that Donald has said that Dark Ages is his favorite set, I'm even more hyped, if possible.
Ooh, where did he say that? Do you have a link?
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Ooh, where did he say that? Do you have a link?
Here you go! (http://boardgamegeek.com/article/9634279#9634279)
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Just over two weeks until previews! Who's excited?
Um, I'm excited. Or were you looking for a comprehensive list of excited people? :)
Just trying to provoke some conversation. :)
That's legit. Now that Donald has said that Dark Ages is his favorite set, I'm even more hyped, if possible.
Edit: Here's a conversation topic: Who's hoping that Shelters and Ruins will be revealed as necessary on top of the 3 reveals/day instead of counting against them? I'm not optimistic, though, since one of the three Alchemy cards revealed was Potion. ;)
Pretty sure Shelters and Ruins will be counted as of the 3. I'm hoping they'll be spread out, though - reveal Shelters and two cards that deal with them, then reveal Ruins and two cards the deal with them.
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That's legit. Now that Donald has said that Dark Ages is his favorite set, I'm even more hyped, if possible.
Ooh, where did he say that? Do you have a link?
Wow, people are really excited about that? What else is he going to say? "Yeah it's not bad, but to be honest it's not as good as Hinterlands and doesn't hold a candle to Prosperity"
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Well, I trust the guy who admitted Chapel is the best card ever to be printed (for its cost) and he would go back in time to change Throne Room if he could.
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Wow, people are really excited about that? What else is he going to say? "Yeah it's not bad, but to be honest it's not as good as Hinterlands and doesn't hold a candle to Prosperity"
Well, he didn't have to volunteer the opinion at all. Or even if he'd said that his favorite expansion was Seaside, I don't think that anyone would've taken it to mean that he thought Dark Ages wasn't worth playing.
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I believe the guy is saving best for last. He's already released the so-so cards to flesh out other expansions and he's said that he's withheld cards for opportunity's sake and then there has a been a great deal of testbedding to identify where some real game changing stuff can be inserted.
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That's legit. Now that Donald has said that Dark Ages is his favorite set, I'm even more hyped, if possible.
Ooh, where did he say that? Do you have a link?
Wow, people are really excited about that? What else is he going to say? "Yeah it's not bad, but to be honest it's not as good as Hinterlands and doesn't hold a candle to Prosperity"
Nah, he's saving that quote for Guilds.
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Let's think about what Dark Ages should have:
Villages - given the size, I'd wager at least 4
Draw - at least a couple cards with +3/+4/+5 Cards
Trashers - given the theme, there will probably be a lot of these, most likely even within the above two categories
Reactions - the only sets without one are Seaside (Lighthouse compensates for this) and Alchemy (which introduces the fewest new kingdom cards anyway)
Victory - every other set has one, though Prosperity cheats and does the VP token thing
Attacks - and lots of 'em! - probably some really nasty ones
Treasure - probably not too many - I'm picking up a "being poor" sort of theme here
Curser - every Curser has reflected its set's theme (Witch is pretty simple, Torturer makes you choose, Sea Hag affects your next turn, Familiar gives +Action, Mountebank also gives Treasure, Young Witch adds variety, IGG triggers on gain), so either the Curser upgrades, or Trashes, or deals with the Trash
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Good call on the cursers, werothegreat; I hadn't noticed the thematicness of them before.
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Victory - every other set has one, though Prosperity cheats and does the VP token thing
I'd argue that Colony is Prosperity's alternate Victory card.
Treasure - probably not too many - I'm picking up a "being poor" sort of theme here
I think we'll have at least one, though! There was a comment some months ago about Thief's trash-then-gain mechanic being important for at least one Dark Ages card, and I'm guessing it's a Treasure that does something when trashed.
EDIT:
Curser - every Curser has reflected its set's theme (Witch is pretty simple, Torturer makes you choose, Sea Hag affects your next turn, Familiar gives +Action, Mountebank also gives Treasure, Young Witch adds variety, IGG triggers on gain), so either the Curser upgrades, or Trashes, or deals with the Trash
I'm wondering if we might have a card that deals out Curses when trashed. If so, will it trash itself (a one-shot Curse-giver), or will you have to trash it with another card?
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EDIT:
Curser - every Curser has reflected its set's theme (Witch is pretty simple, Torturer makes you choose, Sea Hag affects your next turn, Familiar gives +Action, Mountebank also gives Treasure, Young Witch adds variety, IGG triggers on gain), so either the Curser upgrades, or Trashes, or deals with the Trash
I'm wondering if we might have a card that deals out Curses when trashed. If so, will it trash itself (a one-shot Curse-giver), or will you have to trash it with another card?
i.e. is it an Action or a Reaction? Another possibility could be a card that upgrades into a Curser.
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I'm wondering if we might have a card that deals out Curses when trashed. If so, will it trash itself (a one-shot Curse-giver), or will you have to trash it with another card?
i.e. is it an Action or a Reaction? Another possibility could be a card that upgrades into a Curser.
My guess is that on-trash abilities are no more a reaction than on-gain abilities. There could even be a pure Victory card that dealt out Curses upon being trashed.
As far as a card that upgrades into a Curser, that's also possible. I'm guessing we'll have at least two junking attacks, although obviously at least one card will deal out Ruins.
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Ruins... the name suggests so many possibilities, but most of them are invalidated by the knowledge that this set has no mats nor tokens.
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Wow, people are really excited about that? What else is he going to say? "Yeah it's not bad, but to be honest it's not as good as Hinterlands and doesn't hold a candle to Prosperity"
Man, I said that it was my favorite set, not that it would be everyone's. I don't even know you. You might wish the sets had stayed simpler, and prefer the base set and Intrigue, or you might like the extra build-up to Platinum/Colony enough to put Prosperity first, or whatever.
I pushed good stuff to earlier sets, but you get better as you go along. For me the large sets just strictly get better (and so do the small sets, but it seems unfair to compare them, although that means it's unfair to compare Dark Ages, since it's extra large). Separate from that, I am, in Magic lingo, a Johnny, and Dark Ages is the Johnny set.
It's reasonable to suspect that I wouldn't be badmouthing something I made before it's even out, because, what, how much exactly would the publisher like that, and how would potential future publishers feel about that. And it's unlikely I would ever think I'd utterly blown it on a set, at least not until after seeing how much people liked it, because if I felt that way I would fix that sucker. Still if Prosperity were my favorite I would have said that; I was asked and gave my honest answer. Some people have integrity!
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There's a difference between your favorite, and the best. My favorite Star Wars movie is Jedi; the best is Empire. Of course, you wouldn't expect someone trying to sell you something to say bad things about the product, but Donald doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who will say something just to sell something - he says what he believes, and he believes he comes up with good products.
So I would be surprised if he would come back and say that Guilds is his favourite set before it comes out. But more clearly than that, has he ever said that some previous set (before Dark Ages) is his favourite? I don't think he has. So of course, he is in business, he's not going to say that DA is his favorite before it's on the radar, he's going to say it in the build-up to its release. He will time what he says to favor his interests. This is not really so Nefarious (by Donald X. Vaccarino ;)). And there's no reason to be upset about it - you should expect it.
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I believe the guy is saving best for last. He's already released the so-so cards to flesh out other expansions and he's said that he's withheld cards for opportunity's sake and then there has a been a great deal of testbedding to identify where some real game changing stuff can be inserted.
It's just not like this at all. Every expansion in its day focused on being as good as possible. Stealing cards from later sets was fair game. Generally if the card was a great fit for the later set then it wouldn't be stolen, but I have even moved some of those, with Apprentice being a stand-out example (it was from Hinterlands). Later expansions in turn got cards from earlier sets when they were a much better fit, or, more often, when they needed fixing up.
Here's a chart of card origins. Some of them changed a lot, and I'm not including anything about the Seaside/Hinterlands split. I may have missed something.
main set: Chancellor and Feast from Intrigue; Bureaucrat from Prosperity; Council Room and Spy from Dark Ages; Library, Gardens, and Festival from Alchemy; Adventurer from dissolved small expansion.
Intrigue: Masquerade and Wishing Well from Prosperity; Tribute and Swindler from Dark Ages; Bridge from Alchemy; Shanty Town and Duke from that dissolved set. Trading Post from the main set.
Seaside: Smugglers from Dark Ages; Pearl Diver and Sea Hag from Alchemy; Treasure Map from dissolved set.
Alchemy: Apprentice from Hinterlands; Herbalist and Philosopher's Stone from Prosperity; Vineyard from the main set.
Prosperity: Trade Route from Dark Ages; Bank from Alchemy; Peddler and Grand Market from a 2nd dissolved small set; Quarry from Seaside.
Cornucopia: Horn of Plenty from Intrigue; Horse Traders from Seaside; Menagerie and Followers from Prosperity; Tournament and Hunting Party from Dark Ages; Jester and Diadem from Alchemy; Farming Village from Hinterlands.
Hinterlands: Noble Brigand, Cartographer, the bottom half of Trader, the top half of Inn, and the bottom half of Fool's Gold, from Dark Ages; Embassy from the 1st dissolved set. Edit: Jack of All Trades from Cornucopia.
The main thing you see from the cards that left Dark Ages is, that Dark Ages originally had a "non-attack player interaction" theme, but I had to give every set some of that. As previously reported, nothing to see here.
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I believe the guy is saving best for last. He's already released the so-so cards to flesh out other expansions and he's said that he's withheld cards for opportunity's sake and then there has a been a great deal of testbedding to identify where some real game changing stuff can be inserted.
Foreign Traders
Umm...
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Foreign Traders
Umm...
Oops, I meant Battlements.
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Did... did... did Donald X just reveal two card names from Dark Ages?
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Did... did... did Donald X just reveal two card names from Dark Ages?
Battlements was a reaction that drew you a card when you were attacked. It was in Seaside. It died when I changed how reactions worked; it obv. couldn't be that you just drew your deck with it. I brought it back as Foreign Traders in Cornucopia with a more complex wording involving setting it aside. I mucked with the top before settling on the one you know. Then I renamed it Horse Traders.
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Did... did... did Donald X just reveal two card names from Dark Ages?
Battlements was a reaction that drew you a card when you were attacked. It was in Seaside. It died when I changed how reactions worked; it obv. couldn't be that you just drew your deck with it. I brought it back as Foreign Traders in Cornucopia with a more complex wording involving setting it aside. I mucked with the top before settling on the one you know. Then I renamed it Horse Traders.
You're just full of these tidbits. I bet the Dark Ages secret history will be massive.
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Intrigue: Masquerade ... from Prosperity;
Bullet = dodged.
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Woah, I think what I said got blown a bit out of proportion there. I wasn't suggesting that DA would be anything other than great, or that Donald was talking it up to increase sales. I was just making the point that a developer is always going to be in love with what he is doing at the time and he's certainly not going to turn around and say 'meh I've done better'. In the same way I don't pay much attention when any/all of the 32 teams in the NFL say they're going to win the Superbowl in August. They're not lying, they probably believe it to be true, but it's certainly not going to make me any more pumped about their chances.
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Woah, I think what I said got blown a bit out of proportion there. I wasn't suggesting that DA would be anything other than great, or that Donald was talking it up to increase sales. I was just making the point that a developer is always going to be in love with what he is doing at the time and he's certainly not going to turn around and say 'meh I've done better'. In the same way I don't pay much attention when any/all of the 32 teams in the NFL say they're going to win the Superbowl in August. They're not lying, they probably believe it to be true, but it's certainly not going to make me any more pumped about their chances.
Are you saying the eagles aren't going to win this year? Heresy!
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Separate from that, I am, in Magic lingo, a Johnny, and Dark Ages is the Johnny set.
For those unfamiliar with Magic lingo, Johnnies are players who like to win in 'cool' ways, using interesting combos and building decks around cards that are most-often considered useless. They tend to think cards with a more blunt form of raw power are boring.
Interesting to see how that will translate into a Dominion expansion. I guess it could mean that there are a lot of cards that can vary wildly in power depending on the board, or that combo well with cards in this or other sets that are currently considered bad. Maybe there will even be new win condition, although the absence of tokens would make this difficult.
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I'm guessing we'll finally see a use for Mott the Barber.
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Interesting to see how that will translate into a Dominion expansion. I guess it could mean that there are a lot of cards that can vary wildly in power depending on the board, or that combo well with cards in this or other sets that are currently considered bad.
Blue Dog
$3 - Victory
Worth one point for each copy of Counting House, Chancellor, Thief, or Fortune Teller in your deck.
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Interesting to see how that will translate into a Dominion expansion. I guess it could mean that there are a lot of cards that can vary wildly in power depending on the board, or that combo well with cards in this or other sets that are currently considered bad.
Blue Dog
$3 - Victory
Worth one point for each copy of Counting House, Chancellor, Thief, or Fortune Teller in your deck.
Don't forget Develop and Scout!
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I'm guessing we'll finally see a use for Mott the Barber.
LOL, that was my game back in the day :)
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Fortune teller is NOT weak >:(
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Fortune teller is NOT weak >:(
Not Weak Relative to what?
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I'm guessing we'll finally see a use for Mott the Barber.
LOL, that was my game back in the day :)
:) Oh good. I was kinda afraid that joke would fall flat. The "Johnny" thing to do back in the day was to try to build decks around Mott and barber poles. (And often Parallax Arguers)
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I started looking through Secret Histories for cards that were from Dark Ages and ran across this quote.
"Council Room: Originally the 4th expansion had a "non-attack player interaction" sub-theme. It was easily the best expansion, and it became clear that I should split that sucker up. The main set got this card."
Dark Ages always was the best expansion!
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I started looking through Secret Histories for cards that were from Dark Ages and ran across this quote.
"Council Room: Originally the 4th expansion had a "non-attack player interaction" sub-theme. It was easily the best expansion, and it became clear that I should split that sucker up. The main set got this card."
Dark Ages always was the best expansion!
It got split and it still managed to be 35 kingdom cards! Leviathan!
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It got split and it still managed to be 35 kingdom cards! Leviathan!
I don't know if this is right but I assume this got a piece of another expansion mixed in with it.
The way I figure it is, he said originally there were 8 sets. Then he started splitting sets in half to make minis. Now we're going to have 3 minis (which is like 1.5 sets), 5 full sets, and Dark Ages which is like a set and a half.
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Fortune teller is NOT weak >:(
Not Weak Relative to what?
It's not weak relative to Scout and Thief.
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Seems to me that Dominion as a game is almost entirely for Johnnies. It's all about building decks. I guess Spike can get behind this a bit too. But it's interesting that Jay liked it so much - he seems a Timmy.
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Might as well link the article about player profiles (Timmy, Johnny and Spike) for anyone who hasn't read it:
http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtgcom/daily/mr11b (http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtgcom/daily/mr11b)
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I go through moods. Sometimes I want to win practically, sometimes I want to build elaborate engines. Usually the latter.
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I'm guessing we'll finally see a use for Mott the Barber.
LOL, that was my game back in the day :)
:) Oh good. I was kinda afraid that joke would fall flat. The "Johnny" thing to do back in the day was to try to build decks around Mott and barber poles. (And often Parallax Arguers)
I won a tournament with a Parallax Arguers/Duranja deck once.
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What is Mott the Barber from?
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For those unfamiliar with Magic lingo, Johnnies are players who like to win in 'cool' ways, using interesting combos and building decks around cards that are most-often considered useless. They tend to think cards with a more blunt form of raw power are boring.
Ah, thank you for that clarification. I dropped out of Magic long before those terms came about (and apparently long before any of those cards and expansions mentioned in that one article).
I feel confident in saying that I'm a Johnny. When we first played Dominion, my wife routinely beat me because I was too busy playing while she focused on money. Of course, when my playing yielded some fascinating lessons, I was able to use those to wallop her big money.
Sometimes I still have my Johnny moments and will lose a game because of it. Donald's claim that Dark Ages is a Johnny set is kind of exciting. I remember how excited I was to see how Hinterlands encouraged diversity (which seemed to favor the Johnny).
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What is Mott the Barber from?
Star Trek: The Next Generation CCG, First Edition
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He's from Star Trek: The Next Generation. Sure, they made a worthless card of him, but the character originates in the show.
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Mott had terrible stats and his only ability was "Barbering" which wasn't mentioned on any other card or required for any missions. And then in the next expansion, there was an Event called "Barber Pole." The entirety of the text was "Plays on Table." Then there was another card that could give any one character the skill of barbering. The plan was to release one in each expansion, though the initial plan for the set got scrapped. When they finally released the "tying up loose ends set" they added a card called "A little off the top" I think that allowed you to use all the barber cards together for an effect that let you skim cards off your opponent's deck. It was pretty powerful, but really not worth it.
In the meantime, though, people found goofy ways to use the useless cards. Like putting Mott in a shuttlecraft with self destruct and using it as a guided missile.
And Parallax Arguers was this delightfully vague card that let you gain VP "if that was cool."
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What is Mott the Barber from?
Star Trek: The Next Generation CCG, First Edition
Mot. One T. Damn but I'm a nerd for knowing that.
He's cooler than Mott the Hoople, too.
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Barber
Action - $2
Trash the top card of your deck.
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It's perfect because it would combo really well with Scout and Spy.
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It's perfect because it would combo really well with Scout and Spy.
Scout ensures that those precious Estates won't be accidentally trashed by Barber. Thank-you, Scout. You have saved the day once again.
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It's perfect because it would combo really well with Scout and Spy.
Scout ensures that those precious Estates won't be accidentally trashed by Barber. Thank-you, Scout. You have saved the day once again.
Would you prefer Navigator?
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I'd prefer Cartographer, actually. It still has the potential for Lookout conundrum but I'd rather have the draw, the extra action and the reorder that Cartographer would afford.
I think this card is a realistic possibility for the Dark Ages theme but obviously with a different name.
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I'd prefer Cartographer, actually. It still has the potential for Lookout conundrum but I'd rather have the draw, the extra action and the reorder that Cartographer would afford.
I think this card is a realistic possibility for the Dark Ages theme but obviously with a different name.
It's basically a more limited Lookout. And I hate Lookout. I said it as a joke.
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Mott had terrible stats and his only ability was "Barbering" which wasn't mentioned on any other card or required for any missions. And then in the next expansion, there was an Event called "Barber Pole." The entirety of the text was "Plays on Table." Then there was another card that could give any one character the skill of barbering. The plan was to release one in each expansion, though the initial plan for the set got scrapped. When they finally released the "tying up loose ends set" they added a card called "A little off the top" I think that allowed you to use all the barber cards together for an effect that let you skim cards off your opponent's deck. It was pretty powerful, but really not worth it.
In the meantime, though, people found goofy ways to use the useless cards. Like putting Mott in a shuttlecraft with self destruct and using it as a guided missile.
Actually the best use for Mot was not actually involving the card at all! Because he had the Barbering skill, this made Barbering a valid choice for any card that said 'choose a skill' which had excellent applications for cards such as Terraforming Station (which could change the requirements of your opponents mission to Barbering) or Frame of Mind (?) which gave one of your opponent's personnel two skills of your choice. From what I remember Barbering & Cantankerousness was the most common combo :)
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It's perfect because it would combo really well with Scout and Spy.
Scout ensures that those precious Estates won't be accidentally trashed by Barber. Thank-you, Scout. You have saved the day once again.
Ok maybe not REALLY well with Scout, but you could at least chew through coppers and curses that way.
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Guys! Guys! Hey, guys!
...
...
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LESS THAN TWO WEEKS TILL DARK AGES PREVIEWS.
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(http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/24002194.jpg)
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Shall we start a countdown? 7 days left.
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Also - query: will the Base Cards set be updated to include Shelters and Ruins?
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Also (and sorry for 3 posts in a row): do you think perhaps we're judging some cards too harshly (Chancellor, Develop, Thief, etc) because we don't have the full picture? It's possible that some Dark Ages and Guilds cards will even out the power of the current cards - might be that some of them will make Chancellor, Develop and Thief good. Think about it: Cache and IGG made Counting House better. What cards could exist that would make these cards shine?
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Also - query: will the Base Cards set be updated to include Shelters and Ruins?
No.
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Also (and sorry for 3 posts in a row): do you think perhaps we're judging some cards too harshly (Chancellor, Develop, Thief, etc) because we don't have the full picture? It's possible that some Dark Ages and Guilds cards will even out the power of the current cards - might be that some of them will make Chancellor, Develop and Thief good. Think about it: Cache and IGG made Counting House better. What cards could exist that would make these cards shine?
Since Dark Ages will have a Trashing theme, I bet Thief and Develop will both get some interactions.
I don't expect Chancellor will change.
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Chancellor just needs to trigger tunnel and he'd be fine :p
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Chancellor just needs to trigger tunnel and he'd be fine :p
Then he would have two powerful combos instead of one. Other than that, he would be just as bad.
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Chancellor just needs to trigger tunnel and he'd be fine :p
Then he would have four almost powerful combos instead of one. Other than that, he would be just as bad.
FTFY
Counting House, Stash, Inn.
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Chancellor/Counting House falls firmly into the category of "not worth it", just like Coppersmith/Counting House. Vault/Counting House I could see in an engine.
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Vault/Counting House I could see in an engine.
I did that once with Cache and Counting House.
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Vault/Counting House I could see in an engine.
I did that once with Cache and Counting House.
I actually brought up Cache/Counting House here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=2554.0).
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Vault/Counting House I could see in an engine.
I did that once with Cache and Counting House.
I actually brought up Cache/Counting House here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=2554.0).
I mean Cache and Coppersmith, in addition to Vault and Counting House. I believe there were some Worker's Villages in there as well.
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Vault/Counting House I could see in an engine.
I did that once with Cache and Counting House.
I actually brought up Cache/Counting House here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=2554.0).
I mean Cache and Coppersmith, in addition to Vault and Counting House. I believe there were some Worker's Villages in there as well.
Then once is the operative word. You did it once. You're not reliably pulling off a massive draw engine with all your Coppers plus all the Treasure cards from the Cache(s) you bought. Not against a decent opponent, anyway.
Also - query: will the Base Cards set be updated to include Shelters and Ruins?
I would be a little surprised (and disappointed) if the Shelters and Ruins didn't already have art. My hope is that they either have text on them (and art on the top) or they have full-card art already.
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Vault/Counting House I could see in an engine.
I did that once with Cache and Counting House.
I actually brought up Cache/Counting House here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=2554.0).
I mean Cache and Coppersmith, in addition to Vault and Counting House. I believe there were some Worker's Villages in there as well.
Then once is the operative word. You did it once. You're not reliably pulling off a massive draw engine with all your Coppers plus all the Treasure cards from the Cache(s) you bought. Not against a decent opponent, anyway.
Also - query: will the Base Cards set be updated to include Shelters and Ruins?
I would be a little surprised (and disappointed) if the Shelters and Ruins didn't already have art. My hope is that they either have text on them (and art on the top) or they have full-card art already.
I believe it was Worker's Village, Rabble, Vault, Cache, Coppersmith, and Counting House. Got a bunch of WV, few Rabbles, 1 or 2 Caches, couple Vaults, one more Counting House than Vaults, and a couple Coppersmiths. So i'd draw everything in hand, Vault it away, Counting House it back in hand, Vault it, CH, Coppersmith, buy everything. There was probably another Village in there somewhere.
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Five more days!
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I believe it was Worker's Village, Rabble, Vault, Cache, Coppersmith, and Counting House. Got a bunch of WV, few Rabbles, 1 or 2 Caches, couple Vaults, one more Counting House than Vaults, and a couple Coppersmiths. So i'd draw everything in hand, Vault it away, Counting House it back in hand, Vault it, CH, Coppersmith, buy everything. There was probably another Village in there somewhere.
That... might be as far from being a "combo" as any combo has ever been. Six cards necessary to make it work? Once in a lifetime.
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I believe it was Worker's Village, Rabble, Vault, Cache, Coppersmith, and Counting House. Got a bunch of WV, few Rabbles, 1 or 2 Caches, couple Vaults, one more Counting House than Vaults, and a couple Coppersmiths. So i'd draw everything in hand, Vault it away, Counting House it back in hand, Vault it, CH, Coppersmith, buy everything. There was probably another Village in there somewhere.
That... might be as far from being a "combo" as any combo has ever been. Six cards necessary to make it work? Once in a lifetime.
More like a synergistic board than a combo. An engine with other stuff?
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Five more days!
I hope this thread won't explode when we get info on the cards. I suggest we have a new thread for each new card or maybe for each new three cards instead, because there will probably be a lot of discussion on each of them.
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What were the first hinterland cards? I wasn't there. :'(
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What were the first hinterland cards? I wasn't there. :'(
http://boardgamegeek.com/forum/1066342/dominion-hinterlands/news
Preview posts are here.
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Five more days!
I hope this thread won't explode when we get info on the cards. I suggest we have a new thread for each new card or maybe for each new three cards instead, because there will probably be a lot of discussion on each of them.
Seconded.
FIVE MORE DAYS!?!?! AHHHHH!
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Chancellor just needs to trigger tunnel and he'd be fine :p
Then he would have four almost powerful combos instead of one. Other than that, he would be just as bad.
FTFY
Counting House, Stash, Inn.
In Province games, Chancellor-Stash is super duper strong when it appears, in my experience. I can't think of any stronger two-card combos.
Also, if you look closely, Chancellor is a woman.
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Chancellor just needs to trigger tunnel and he'd be fine :p
Then he would have four almost powerful combos instead of one. Other than that, he would be just as bad.
FTFY
Counting House, Stash, Inn.
In Province games, Chancellor-Stash is super duper strong when it appears, in my experience. I can't think of any stronger two-card combos.
I have to agree. An the cool thing is, it is made up of the worst cards.
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Chancellor just needs to trigger tunnel and he'd be fine :p
Then he would have four almost powerful combos instead of one. Other than that, he would be just as bad.
FTFY
Counting House, Stash, Inn.
In Province games, Chancellor-Stash is super duper strong when it appears, in my experience. I can't think of any stronger two-card combos.
Whoa, Chancellor/Stash is good, but let's not get carried away here. :P
It gets blown away by (Province-oriented) combos such as: Wharf/Fool's Gold, Hunting Party/Monument, Native Village/Bridge, etc. Then there are alt VP strategies like Ironworks/Silk Road, although arguably that's not exactly a "Province game" anymore.
(Edit: And having simmed now, it's only a touch better than BM+Courtyard. I'm using a bot WanderingWinder posted at some point on this forum, but I don't have the link handy.)
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I think chancellor/stash is much more resilient to cursing than most other straight BM variants.
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Also, if you look closely, Chancellor is a woman.
That was a very cheap Merkel joke, and you know it.
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Also, if you look closely, Chancellor is a woman.
That was a very cheap Merkel joke, and you know it.
Merkel is a WOMAN?!
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Also, if you look closely, Chancellor is a woman.
That was a very cheap Merkel joke, and you know it.
Merkel is a WOMAN?!
Yeah well, more or less I think.
But the comparison is really not fair to our poor Dominion Chancellor.
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>.>
<.<
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FOUR MORE DAYS.
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I'm in favor of having a separate thread for each three cards announced. Ideally, the thread title should have the names of the three cards; I will never remember what was released on Day X, but I can easily remember what the thread is about if it has the card names in the subject.
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I'm in favor of having a separate thread for each three cards announced. Ideally, the thread title should have the names of the three cards; I will never remember what was released on Day X, but I can easily remember what the thread is about if it has the card names in the subject.
a few related ideas
- maybe we can talk theory into setting up a new subforum or stickying posts or something?
- consistent titling of threads, ideally something like: Day 1 - Card X, Card Y, Card Z
- set up threads for the cards released on day 1/2/x ahead of time so that its not a race for users to do it
- create threads specifically for discussing artwork, dark ages combos, game logs with the new cards, etc. if not we are bound to get dozens of those flying around too.
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I'm not sure. Isn't this overkill? The old Hinterlands spoil thread (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=801.0) only had 11 pages in the end and even the full leak discussion (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=823.0) had only 14 pages.
But I do agree. Combos, Logs and Artwork should go in different threads.
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I'm not sure. Isn't this overkill? The old Hinterlands spoil thread (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=801.0) only had 11 pages in the end and even the full leak discussion (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=823.0) had only 14 pages.
But I do agree. Combos, Logs and Artwork should go in different threads.
But the activity in the forum has almost doubled since then.
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I'm not sure. Isn't this overkill? The old Hinterlands spoil thread (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=801.0) only had 11 pages in the end and even the full leak discussion (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=823.0) had only 14 pages.
But I do agree. Combos, Logs and Artwork should go in different threads.
But the activity in the forum has almost doubled since then.
Yup.
And there are 50% more cards per day. And we've had longer between sets. And I would presume that at least some of these are going to be more revolutionary than the Hinterlands cards (I'm looking at you, shelters and ruins).
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And I would presume that at least some of these are going to be more revolutionary than the Hinterlands cards (I'm looking at you, shelters and ruins).
Hinterlands, for all the fun that it is, is really a vanilla expansion. Instead of introducing a new mechanic or card type, it simply creates a paradigm shift as to when cards can (or should) produce effects.
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I'm not sure. Isn't this overkill? The old Hinterlands spoil thread (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=801.0) only had 11 pages in the end and even the full leak discussion (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=823.0) had only 14 pages.
But I do agree. Combos, Logs and Artwork should go in different threads.
oh it totally might be a little overkill. but it would also help keep things organized. instead of one thread with 8 different discussions we can keep things a little more focused. and while most discussion was centered in those main threads there were a few other offshoot threads taking up space. i'm just proposing that we try to implement say 5-6 focused threads instead of 2 big jumbled threads and a few tangential threads that get lost in the shuffle.
also i would echo WW and Tdog's sentiments and add that avoiding a massive dump like last year will likely increase the hype and speculation.
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Will the previews be on Boardgamegeek first? Or will it be here?
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Ok, now work with me on this:
The order of the main Cursers of each set has gone:
Female, Male, Female, Non-gendered, Male, Female, Non-gendered... if we're going by this pattern, the Dark Ages Curser should be male.
For those wondering: Witch, Torturer, Sea Hag, Familiar, Mountebank, Young Witch, IGG
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We've arranged to post the previews simultaneously on the DS front page.
I think I would prefer to have one thread for generalized Dark Ages discussion (incl., say, artwork), and then one thread per day of cards. A separate subforum for Dark Ages might prove obsolete in a couple of months.
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We've arranged to post the previews simultaneously on the DS front page.
I think I would prefer to have one thread for generalized Dark Ages discussion (incl., say, artwork), and then one thread per day of cards. A separate subforum for Dark Ages might prove obsolete in a couple of months.
What about a sub forum that will get merged in the future?
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I dont really understand the need for a sub forum.
This is the key thing in Dominion discussion at the moment, what else are people likely to be talking about.
The main froum is where it should be, thats where new visitors will look for the important Dom info
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Personally, I think it'd be great if each card had its own thread, but that may make navigating a little trickier. And with 35 or so cards, someone is bound to look at the thread list and say, "Well, there's no thread on Dung Seller, so I better start one," not realizing that there is indeed already a thread for Dung Seller.
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Personally, I think it'd be great if each card had its own thread, but that may make navigating a little trickier. And with 35 or so cards, someone is bound to look at the thread list and say, "Well, there's no thread on Dung Seller, so I better start one," not realizing that there is indeed already a thread for Dung Seller.
You mean Twig Beggar.
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Dung Seller
$4 Action - Attack
+$1
Each other player gains a curse or reveals a hand with no curses. You get +$1 for each curse gained this way.
-
Dung Seller
$4 Action - Attack
+$1
Each other player gains a curse or reveals a hand with no curses. You get +$1 for each curse gained this way.
Doesn't involve trashing/upgrading. The Curser has to fit the theme.
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I think having one thread for each day is the way to go for a few reasons.
1. Donald is likely to be picking sets of three cards with good synergy and there's not much point to having two discussions of how Card A works with Card B.
2. Card B may only be obtainable via Card A, which would make a Card B thread extra silly.
3. Most posts in the thread are going to touch on all three cards anyway, and we're going to want to read it all, so why split it up further?
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Chancellor just needs to trigger tunnel and he'd be fine :p
Then he would have four almost powerful combos instead of one. Other than that, he would be just as bad.
FTFY
Counting House, Stash, Inn.
In Province games, Chancellor-Stash is super duper strong when it appears, in my experience. I can't think of any stronger two-card combos.
Whoa, Chancellor/Stash is good, but let's not get carried away here. :P
It gets blown away by (Province-oriented) combos such as: Wharf/Fool's Gold, Hunting Party/Monument, Native Village/Bridge, etc. Then there are alt VP strategies like Ironworks/Silk Road, although arguably that's not exactly a "Province game" anymore.
(Edit: And having simmed now, it's only a touch better than BM+Courtyard. I'm using a bot WanderingWinder posted at some point on this forum, but I don't have the link handy.)
OK, I can think of some stronger two-card combos now.
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Better in context. If there was cursing on the board, all those strategies would fail except Chancellor/Stash.
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Dung Seller
$4 Action - Attack
+$1
Each other player gains a curse or reveals a hand with no curses. You get +$1 for each curse gained this way.
So I would never gain a curse from this card unless I already had a curse from another card?
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Dung Seller
$4 Action - Attack
+$1
Each other player gains a curse or reveals a hand with no curses. You get +$1 for each curse gained this way.
So I would never gain a curse from this card unless I already had a curse from another card?
It looks to me to function like mountebank, but without the discard - if you have a curse in hand, nothing. If you don't have one, gain a curse and +$1 to whoever played the card.
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Except that's not how it's worded.
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Dung Seller
$4 Action-Attack-Reaction
Trash a card. If you do, each other player gains a Curse.
When another player would trash a Curse, you may reveal this card. If you do, discard this card. The Curse instead returns to the supply, and they gain a Curse.
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Except that's not how it's worded.
Agreed.
Its a choice, so if you can reveal a hand with no curses, then you choose that option and you don't get the curse.
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Well it's the reverse of Mountebank. Mountebank curses you if you don't already have a curse. This curses you only if you have a curse already, which, as someone pointed out, means that it only really does something if there's another curser.
I don't remember why I set it up that way. It seemed very thematic to me at the time for some reason.
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Dung Seller
$4 Action-Attack-Reaction
Trash a card. If you do, each other player gains a Curse.
When another player would trash a Curse, you may reveal this card. If you do, discard this card. The Curse instead returns to the supply, and they gain a Curse.
The reaction is political.
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Except that's not how it's worded.
I guess I cannot read.... I saw the words and re-shuffled them in my head until it said what I wanted it to.
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Except that's not how it's worded.
I guess I cannot read.... I saw the words and re-shuffled them in my head until it said what I wanted it to.
I hear AT&T (http://cheezburger.com/6473415936) has the same problem.
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Except that's not how it's worded.
I guess I cannot read.... I saw the words and re-shuffled them in my head until it said what I wanted it to.
I hear AT&T (http://cheezburger.com/6473415936) has the same problem.
Somehow, that just makes me feel worse, rather than better. :(
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Dung Seller
$4 Action - Attack
+$1
Each other player gains a curse or reveals a hand with no curses. You get +$1 for each curse gained this way.
Dung Cellar
$2
Action
+1 Action
Discard any number of cards. Trash that many cards from your hand.
that is not a card from Dark Ages, why do I even have to say this
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Dung Seller
$4 Action - Attack
+$1
Each other player gains a curse or reveals a hand with no curses. You get +$1 for each curse gained this way.
Dung Cellar
$2
Action
+1 Action
Discard any number of cards. Trash that many cards from your hand.
that is not a card from Dark Ages, why do I even have to say this
Dong Cellar
$2 - Action
No. Just no.
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Dung Seller
$4 Action - Attack
+$1
Each other player gains a curse or reveals a hand with no curses. You get +$1 for each curse gained this way.
Dung Cellar
$2
Action
+1 Action
Discard any number of cards. Trash that many cards from your hand.
that is not a card from Dark Ages, why do I even have to say this
Ladies and gentlemen, the previews have started early. *claps*
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What's brown and sounds like a bell?
Dung!
[/python]
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P.S. - THREE MORE DAYS
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P.S. - THREE MORE DAYS
I am amused that you keep collecting +1s with this same post. ;)
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P.S. - THREE MORE DAYS
I am amused that you keep collecting +1s with this same post. ;)
They share my sentiment. :) Just so excited!
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For those of you, like me, that rarely venture into the "Isotropic Discussion" forum, this is a public service announcement to notify you that the Dark Ages cards are almost certainly not going to be released on isotropic. So, don't be disappointed when the set is released and the new cards don't show up.
[At] this point I do not expect public isotropic to ever get Dark Ages cards.
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For those of you, like me, that rarely venture into the "Isotropic Discussion" forum, this is a public service announcement to notify you that the Dark Ages cards are almost certainly not going to be released on isotropic. So, don't be disappointed when the set is released and the new cards don't show up.
[At] this point I do not expect public isotropic to ever get Dark Ages cards.
Knowing that it isn't going to happen doesn't lesson the disappointment - just time shifts it forward in time.
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For those of you, like me, that rarely venture into the "Isotropic Discussion" forum, this is a public service announcement to notify you that the Dark Ages cards are almost certainly not going to be released on isotropic. So, don't be disappointed when the set is released and the new cards don't show up.
[At] this point I do not expect public isotropic to ever get Dark Ages cards.
Knowing that it isn't going to happen doesn't lesson the disappointment - just time shifts it forward in time.
Well, I'm just following the Golden Rule, here. If it were me, I'd rather be told beforehand that a planned event was cancelled than be surprised when I show up and it isn't happening, even if showing up just entails logging onto a website.
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*Crosses fingers that goko will implement the previews before alchemy/cornucopia/hinterlands*
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*Crosses fingers that goko will implement the previews before alchemy/cornucopia/hinterlands*
I actually see that as a realistic possibility.
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*Crosses fingers that goko will implement the previews before alchemy/cornucopia/hinterlands*
I actually see that as a realistic possibility.
Hope springs eternal. However, the way Goko handles discards and trashing right now has been confirmed to be incorrect and will prevent some Dark Ages cards from being implemented correctly. Maybe they've already fixed that or are fixing it now, but I'd be surprised.
I don't plan to get my hopes up, personally. I'm already finding myself foolishly hoping that Dark Ages will be available outside GenCon before October.
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*Crosses fingers that goko will implement the previews before alchemy/cornucopia/hinterlands*
I actually see that as a realistic possibility.
Hope springs eternal. However, the way Goko handles discards and trashing right now has been confirmed to be incorrect and will prevent some Dark Ages cards from being implemented correctly. Maybe they've already fixed that or are fixing it now, but I'd be surprised.
I don't plan to get my hopes up, personally. I'm already finding myself foolishly hoping that Dark Ages will be available outside GenCon before October.
RGG Jay, over on BGG, has stated that they should be publicly available in August.
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RGG Jay, over on BGG, has stated that they should be publicly available in August.
Hmm, and he said it today, too. That does give it a little more plausibility. They've just been two months late so many times in the past, i.e. for every other Dominion expansion.
Fool me six times, shame on you. Fool me seven times, shame on me.
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Blah, Monday needs to get here. Do we think Shelters and/or Ruins will be revealed?
-
Blah, Monday needs to get here. Do we think Shelters and/or Ruins will be revealed?
Funny that we can't wait for the weekend to be over....
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Blah, Monday needs to get here. Do we think Shelters and/or Ruins will be revealed?
I'm guessing we'll see one or the other on Monday, yes.
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Blah, Monday needs to get here. Do we think Shelters and/or Ruins will be revealed?
Funny that we can't wait for the weekend to be over....
What good is a weekend without knowing the new cards from Dark Ages?
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Blah, Monday needs to get here. Do we think Shelters and/or Ruins will be revealed?
Funny that we can't wait for the weekend to be over....
What good is a weekend without knowing the new cards from Dark Ages?
To get in all the activities you know you won't have time for once the Dark Ages previews start.
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Found some art that could be used in Dark Ages... All by former Dominion illustrators. The second one down is even called Dark Ages... 8)
http://www.ericjcarter.com/album/abandonedcity.html
http://taman88.deviantart.com/#/d55wvrb
http://www.flickr.com/photos/marcomorte/7197618902/in/photostream/ - there are a couple of others on this site that look like they could as well...
If they don't end up being Dominion cards they could make for great fan card art.
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Found some art that could be used in Dark Ages... All by former Dominion illustrators. The second one down is even called Dark Ages... 8)
http://www.ericjcarter.com/album/abandonedcity.html
http://taman88.deviantart.com/#/d55wvrb
http://www.flickr.com/photos/marcomorte/7197618902/in/photostream/
I would be most likely to believe the flickr account - it seems to fit thematically with Dominion, and the description is "Rio Grande Games."
In fact, let's venture a guess at some names:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/marcomorte/7197615544/in/set-72157625491457387/ - Knight? Lord? Manor?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/marcomorte/7197617348/in/set-72157625491457387/ - Mercenary (maybe Man at Arms).
http://www.flickr.com/photos/marcomorte/7197618902/in/set-72157625491457387/ - Plague Wagon.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/marcomorte/7197614012/in/set-72157625491457387/ - Holdfast! A pretty awesome looking one, too.
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So beautiful ! I love them and hope we will see them in Dark ages. :)
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/marcomorte/7197618902/in/photostream/ - there are a couple of
The masked men in that one are plague doctors (http://alchemipedia.blogspot.com/2009/09/plague-doctor-medical-history.html), which would fit the dark ages theme pretty well.
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"Abandoned City" looks a little too sci-fi for Dominion ... props on finding these though. I'll +1 you for that for sure.
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There is a lot of awesome art in these and other former dominion artists pages... like you said could make for some cool fan art, especially in the design competition
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I think that "Holdfast" one will be called Keep.
Keep
$5
Action
If you have one or more Keeps in play at the start of your Clean-up phase, then put the 5 cards you draw for your next hand onto the Keep mat. While there, they are safe from any attacks. Draw them into your hand at the start of your next turn.
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I think that "Holdfast" one will be called Keep.
Keep
$5
Action
If you have one or more Keeps in play at the start of your Clean-up phase, then put the 5 cards you draw for your next hand onto the Keep mat. While there, they are safe from any attacks. Draw them into your hand at the start of your next turn.
All that is is a really REALLY REALLY cheesy Moat.
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I think that "Holdfast" one will be called Keep.
Keep
$5
Action
If you have one or more Keeps in play at the start of your Clean-up phase, then put the 5 cards you draw for your next hand onto the Keep mat. While there, they are safe from any attacks. Draw them into your hand at the start of your next turn.
For a $5 terminal action, that card had better do something else. As is, it's basically a moat: it's a terminal action taking up space in your hand, and its protection is basically identical to a moat for the next hand. Except at least the moat draws you two cards!
-
It's actually much weaker than a Moat.
- high cost
- has no benefits other than defense
- requires two to activate, doesn't even provide +actions to get it done
- narrow defense
I mean, it defends against hand-size reduction... and that's about it? Not going to stop Curses, or deck inspection, or swindling...
-
I think that "Holdfast" one will be called Keep.
Keep
$5
Action
If you have one or more Keeps in play at the start of your Clean-up phase, then put the 5 cards you draw for your next hand onto the Keep mat. While there, they are safe from any attacks. Draw them into your hand at the start of your next turn.
All that is is a really REALLY REALLY cheesy Moat.
Mmmmm... moat full of cheese...
Okay, this is why I shouldn't come up with card ideas when I'm really sleepy. My awake self would have thought of that. :-\
-
I think that "Holdfast" one will be called Keep.
Keep
$5
Action
If you have one or more Keeps in play at the start of your Clean-up phase, then put the 5 cards you draw for your next hand onto the Keep mat. While there, they are safe from any attacks. Draw them into your hand at the start of your next turn.
All that is is a really REALLY REALLY cheesy Moat.
Mmmmm... moat full of cheese...
Now we need a Secret Chamber full of nachos. mmmmmmm :)
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It's actually much weaker than a Moat.
- high cost
- has no benefits other than defense
- requires two to activate, doesn't even provide +actions to get it done
- narrow defense
I mean, it defends against hand-size reduction... and that's about it? Not going to stop Curses, or deck inspection, or swindling...
It protects against Masquerade. And Possession.
-
It's actually much weaker than a Moat.
- high cost
- has no benefits other than defense
- requires two to activate, doesn't even provide +actions to get it done
- narrow defense
I mean, it defends against hand-size reduction... and that's about it? Not going to stop Curses, or deck inspection, or swindling...
It protects against Masquerade. And Possession.
It still sucks.
-
It's actually much weaker than a Moat.
- high cost
- has no benefits other than defense
- requires two to activate, doesn't even provide +actions to get it done
- narrow defense
I mean, it defends against hand-size reduction... and that's about it? Not going to stop Curses, or deck inspection, or swindling...
It protects against Masquerade. And Possession.
Masquerade, fair point.
Possession, I don't think so. The Possession turn is still *your turn*, so you would draw those cards into your hand and play out your possessed turn.
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I kinda hope we don't get spoiled halfway through like we did with Hinterlands. Half the fun for me was seeing his writeups for stuff, and I felt kinda bad when he had to stop doing that and just lay down a clarification of the translation.
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I kinda hope we don't get spoiled halfway through like we did with Hinterlands. Half the fun for me was seeing his writeups for stuff, and I felt kinda bad when he had to stop doing that and just lay down a clarification of the translation.
Donald X is previewing a week early to prevent exactly that.
Two more days, by the way.
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I'm impressed - only two posts in this thread today. Do all the forumers here go and do other things on Saturdays?
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I'm impressed - only two posts in this thread today. Do all the forumers here go and do other things on Saturdays?
We are all off trying out the new Dark Ages card in the 2nd Goko beta probably
-
Is that a troll or do I need to head over to Goko?
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I'm impressed - only two posts in this thread today. Do all the forumers here go and do other things on Saturdays?
We are all off trying out the new Dark Ages card in the 2nd Goko beta probably
Had to check and make sure you were lying... but Goko is separating the expansions into component packs now.
-
Yeah, pure troll im afraid, was too easy a set up
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Yeah, pure troll im afraid, was too easy a set up
Meanie.
-
Gullible is written on your screen.
-
Gullible is written on your screen.
Found it.
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Incidentally I am tentatively putting up the previews at 6 AM Pacific Time on the day they're due, rather than at midnight like last time. I want to be consistent as to what time they go up, and while I'm up at midnight today, I will not be for each of the days in question. So, those of you who would have been up will have another six hours to wait. On the plus side, if you're on the east coast, you will not be tempted to stay up until 3 AM.
-
On the plus side, if you're on the east coast, you will not be tempted to stay up until 3 AM.
No, now you'd just be tempted to stay up until 9 AM.
-
Incidentally I am tentatively putting up the previews at 6 AM Pacific Time on the day they're due, rather than at midnight like last time. I want to be consistent as to what time they go up, and while I'm up at midnight today, I will not be for each of the days in question. So, those of you who would have been up will have another six hours to wait. On the plus side, if you're on the east coast, you will not be tempted to stay up until 3 AM.
15 mins before my lunch break at work. Seems reasonable.
-
So the previews will greet me just as I get to work. Wonderful. :)
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So the previews will greet me just as I get to work. Wonderful. :)
Wonderful for us. Less wonderful for our employers, who may see a drop in morning productivity.
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So the previews will greet me just as I get to work. Wonderful. :)
Wonderful for us. Less wonderful for our employers, who may see a drop in morning productivity.
You could say our work productivity will be in .... ruins.
Ok I'll show myself out.
-
But the previews will be a shelter from work...
-
Less than 17 hours until the previews start...
-
Excited.
-
Excited.
Me too. Just pre-ordered Dark Ages from boardsandbits.com! Can't wait.
-
I hope this gets a new topic.
I haven't been checking back here for a while since 15 pages of fakes and excitement was too much for me.
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OK, so I woke up from a dream that I'd read the first few revealed Dark Ages cards. This happened about 4 or 5 times last night. Hopefully it's just the initial excitement and this won't happen every night this week. I need my sleep! :)
-
One hour...
-
One hour...
Evidently I didn't sleep in late enough. This feels like Christmas.
-
Less than 20 minutes!!!
-
Any minute now!
-
http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/837991/previews-1-graverobber-poor-house-sage
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Aw man, he was totally late. I'm really angry, but too busy to post a long rant about it.
-
BATTLEAXE IN THE CORNER! WHO CALLED IT?
-
I decided that a separate subforum would probably work best. I'll end up moving this to a less-prominent place after Dark Ages is published.
-
So, I can't get to this forum via the link, only by coming to topics in it such as "unread posts"
-
I think it should be fixed now?
-
BATTLEAXE IN THE CORNER! WHO CALLED IT?
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=2909.0
Do I get a prize or something?
-
I thought it was a bat at first.
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BATTLEAXE IN THE CORNER! WHO CALLED IT?
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=2909.0
Do I get a prize or something?
You get a +1
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As far as I remember, we were all wrong about Ruins. Did anyone suggest anything close?
-
As far as I remember, we were all wrong about Ruins. Did anyone suggest anything close?
Somebody suggested there would be different types of Ruins, but I don't remember anyone suggesting that Ruins would also be Action cards.
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Found some art that could be used in Dark Ages... All by former Dominion illustrators. The second one down is even called Dark Ages... 8)
http://www.ericjcarter.com/album/abandonedcity.html
http://taman88.deviantart.com/#/d55wvrb
http://www.flickr.com/photos/marcomorte/7197618902/in/photostream/ - there are a couple of others on this site that look like they could as well...
If they don't end up being Dominion cards they could make for great fan card art.
I heard-- didn't see--that one of these cards was in fact used and shown last night. I would speculate that the others on that website will be used as well!
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As far as I remember, we were all wrong about Ruins. Did anyone suggest anything close?
My suggestion for Ruins turned out to be pretty close to two of the three Shelters: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/142743/item/2163368#item2163368
Ruins
Type: Victory-Reaction
Cost: $0
0 VP
When you buy a victory card, you may trash this from your hand.