It's always nice to have more Villa variants.
It's always nice to have more Villa variants.
Yeah, Launch looks great! I love that it doesn't run out late-game like the other Villa-effects do. Once per turn seems like a reasonable limitation to compensate.
Wow, Frigate seems really mean! But I thought that about Warlord and it turned out not to be so bad, so I guess we'll see.
It's always nice to have more Villa variants.
It's always nice to have more Villa variants.
Yeah, Launch looks great! I love that it doesn't run out late-game like the other Villa-effects do. Once per turn seems like a reasonable limitation to compensate.
It will work really nicely with Landing Party - basically spend $3 to put your Landing Party/Parties back onto your deck - potentially letting you play the same Landing Party twice in a single turn!
Oh, wait, yeah, I made a mistake there. You couldn't play Landing Party twice in the same turn that way, it would only allow you to topdeck a previous turn's Landing PartyIt's always nice to have more Villa variants.
Yeah, Launch looks great! I love that it doesn't run out late-game like the other Villa-effects do. Once per turn seems like a reasonable limitation to compensate.
It will work really nicely with Landing Party - basically spend $3 to put your Landing Party/Parties back onto your deck - potentially letting you play the same Landing Party twice in a single turn!
...I don't follow?
Cage is not even indirectly giving you money, is it?
Cage is not even indirectly giving you money, is it?
If you set aside Treasure cards with Cage, it would give them back to you when you gain a Victory card (or rather, on the turn after you gain the Victory card). It does seem like a very niche card though, hard to see what the most effective use would be
I don't understand why a Throned Quartermaster only has one set of cards. Why doesn't it work like a Throned Archive, which keeps two sets of cards?Quartermaster specifies where cards go (onto it) and where they come from (on it) with it functioning like a miniature Native Village mat.
Also worth noting that with Gondola, the "enhanced Silvers shouldn't cost $4" rule is finally where it belongs: in the trash.Didn't Patron break it?
Also worth noting that with Gondola, the "enhanced Silvers shouldn't cost $4" rule is finally where it belongs: in the trash.Didn't Patron break it?
Also worth noting that with Gondola, the "enhanced Silvers shouldn't cost $4" rule is finally where it belongs: in the trash.
No.Also worth noting that with Gondola, the "enhanced Silvers shouldn't cost $4" rule is finally where it belongs: in the trash.Didn't Patron break it?
No, there's enough differences between Actions and Treasures in general that an action that provides +1 action can't be automatically compared to a treasure. Among other things, you can draw Patron dead with something like Smithy.
No.Also worth noting that with Gondola, the "enhanced Silvers shouldn't cost $4" rule is finally where it belongs: in the trash.Didn't Patron break it?
No, there's enough differences between Actions and Treasures in general that an action that provides +1 action can't be automatically compared to a treasure. Among other things, you can draw Patron dead with something like Smithy.
Actions are on average stronger than their Treasure counterpart. See the long discussion about Candlestick Maker vs. Ducat. So Patron, being better than its hypothetical Treasure counterpart, did break that design rule.
It was never ever a been a fan notion that Silver with a bonus shall not be priced at $4 but Donald’s old design rule.Also worth noting that with Gondola, the "enhanced Silvers shouldn't cost $4" rule is finally where it belongs: in the trash.
Once again, Donald gets his card ideas from looking at the variants forum. NOT from looking at fan cards, but from looking at responses to fan cards, where people say things like "hey, you shouldn't make a Silver+ that costs $4 because it's a bad idea" or "cards shouldn't cost exactly (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/b/bc/Coin7.png/16px-Coin7.png)", and then he just goes "Oh yeah?"
It was never ever a been a fan notion that Silver with a bonus shall not be priced at $4 but Donald’s old design rule.Also worth noting that with Gondola, the "enhanced Silvers shouldn't cost $4" rule is finally where it belongs: in the trash.
Once again, Donald gets his card ideas from looking at the variants forum. NOT from looking at fan cards, but from looking at responses to fan cards, where people say things like "hey, you shouldn't make a Silver+ that costs $4 because it's a bad idea" or "cards shouldn't cost exactly (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/b/bc/Coin7.png/16px-Coin7.png)", and then he just goes "Oh yeah?"
No.Also worth noting that with Gondola, the "enhanced Silvers shouldn't cost $4" rule is finally where it belongs: in the trash.Didn't Patron break it?
No, there's enough differences between Actions and Treasures in general that an action that provides +1 action can't be automatically compared to a treasure. Among other things, you can draw Patron dead with something like Smithy.
Actions are on average stronger than their Treasure counterpart. See the long discussion about Candlestick Maker vs. Ducat. So Patron, being better than its hypothetical Treasure counterpart, did break that design rule.
It's interesting that in games with Looting, you just don't ever buy Gold.Well, maybe sometimes there is no Loots left, or there are only Endless Chalices left.
It's interesting that in games with Looting, you just don't ever buy Gold.Well, maybe sometimes there is no Loots left, or there are only Endless Chalices left.
Play Inventor
→ gain Inventor
→ play Inventor again (Reckless)
→ use Way of the Horse
→ draw Inventor
→ return Inventor to its pile
Reckless doesn't allow you to use a Way for the repetition of a card, fortunately.
It's interesting that in games with Looting, you just don't ever buy Gold.Well, maybe sometimes there is no Loots left, or there are only Endless Chalices left.
Or Jeweled Egg is the only Loot-giver with no trashing (or poor trashing).I'm fairly certain they were talking about Looting, the event, not just any old way of gaining Loot.
Or Jeweled Egg is the only Loot-giver with no trashing (or poor trashing).I'm fairly certain they were talking about Looting, the event, not just any old way of gaining Loot.
It's interesting that in games with Looting, you just don't ever buy Gold. Technically in games with Delve you don't ever buy Silver either, but at least there you still get Silver.
It's interesting that in games with Looting, you just don't ever buy Gold.Well, maybe sometimes there is no Loots left, or there are only Endless Chalices left.
I think it's funny how oxymorons can be created from the Traits. Pious Villain, Nearby Distant Lands.Pious Graverobber
Reckless TacticianMikhail Tal says hi.
The Friendly Wizard ;)Reckless TacticianMikhail Tal says hi.
I think it's funny how oxymorons can be created from the Traits. Pious Villain, Nearby Distant Lands.Pious Graverobber
Friendly Torturer
Rich Poor House
Cheap Treasury
Reckless Tactician
Patient Chariot Race
Fawning Overlord
Inherited Hireling
Shy Recruiter
Hasty Sculptor
Tireless Wine MerchantInspiring Scout
I'm not sure what the closest thing to the opposite of "Fated" would be...
At least Pious Den of Sin or Pious Devil's Workshop is impossible, but at the cost of also missing a Pious Monastery.
I think it's funny how oxymorons can be created from the Traits. Pious Villain, Nearby Distant Lands.
I'm not sure what the closest thing to the opposite of "Fated" would be...
Cage is not even indirectly giving you money, is it?
While most Treasures do produce Coins, Horn of Plenty, War Chest, Sunken Treasure and Tools are gainers and plenty of other Treasures do not unconditionally produce Coins. For example Tiara and King's Cache are Thrones can theoretically fail to yield Coins and Crown is a Throne that fatils to do so quite often.Cage is not even indirectly giving you money, is it?
I too was confused how this card 'qualified' as a Treasure? I like the mechanics of the card the the 'Treasure' type is confusing, as it seemed more like an Action - Duration Type
While most Treasures do produce Coins, Horn of Plenty, War Chest, Sunken Treasure and Tools are gainers and plenty of other Treasures do not unconditionally produce Coins. For example Tiara and King's Cache are Thrones can theoretically fail to yield Coins and Crown is a Throne that fatils to do so quite often.Cage is not even indirectly giving you money, is it?
I too was confused how this card 'qualified' as a Treasure? I like the mechanics of the card the the 'Treasure' type is confusing, as it seemed more like an Action - Duration Type
So the notion that all Treasures should somehow always produce Coins is pretty weird given that this has not been the case for over 10 years.
It is not as if Actions are what you should always and above all do while Treasures are some kind of niche card category that is only done when it is absolutely mechanically necessary. Cage could very well be a non-terminal Action but, big surprise, that non-terminal is implemented as a Treasure in an expansion with a heavy focus on Treasures.
Treasures can do whatever the designer wants them to do. And while no producing Coins is unusual, as witnessed by the huge zero on the first version of Horn of Plenty, it is now fairly common and in my opinion the game is better due to this increasing design flexibility concerning the yellow stuff.
That was my precisely my point. Actions are not the „standard“ while Treasures are some weird funky edge case that need any rationale. Especially not in an expansion with a lot of Treasures.
While most Treasures do produce Coins, Horn of Plenty, War Chest, Sunken Treasure and Tools are gainers and plenty of other Treasures do not unconditionally produce Coins. For example Tiara and King's Cache are Thrones can theoretically fail to yield Coins and Crown is a Throne that fatils to do so quite often.
So the notion that all Treasures should somehow always produce Coins is pretty weird given that this has not been the case for over 10 years.
Nope. I responded to a post which responded to this post:While most Treasures do produce Coins, Horn of Plenty, War Chest, Sunken Treasure and Tools are gainers and plenty of other Treasures do not unconditionally produce Coins. For example Tiara and King's Cache are Thrones can theoretically fail to yield Coins and Crown is a Throne that fatils to do so quite often.
So the notion that all Treasures should somehow always produce Coins is pretty weird given that this has not been the case for over 10 years.
As far as I can tell, you're the only one who has mentioned the notion that treasures should always produce coins. That seems to be an assumption you made upon hearing people wonder why Cage is a treasure; "They must be confused that it's not making any coins." It's also kind of a weird assumption since, as you mentioned, it's not exactly a new thing for treasures to not make coins; certainly other people have noticed this.
Cage is not even indirectly giving you money, is it?
Ain’t just me dude. The designer himself said in the other thread that there was no deeper meaning, no fine-tuning or whatever behind converting an Action into a Treasure. Also pure coincidence that Shaman did not end up as a Treasure.That was my precisely my point. Actions are not the „standard“ while Treasures are some weird funky edge case that need any rationale. Especially not in an expansion with a lot of Treasures.
You make it sound like a complete coincidence that every other card that works the same as an action or a treasure has been an action so far. Clearly actions are some sort of default; or at least they always have been until now.
Nope. I responded to a post which responded to this post:Cage is not even indirectly giving you money, is it?
You can of course read „indirectly giving money“ as gaining … but that is a fetch given that you could also read thinning as increasing the average Coin yield of your deck or drawing cards as a way to play more Coin producing stuff or whatever.
Ain’t just me dude. The designer himself said in the other thread that there was no deeper meaning, no fine-tuning or whatever behind converting an Action into a Treasure. Also pure coincidence that Shaman did not end up as a Treasure.That was my precisely my point. Actions are not the „standard“ while Treasures are some weird funky edge case that need any rationale. Especially not in an expansion with a lot of Treasures.
You make it sound like a complete coincidence that every other card that works the same as an action or a treasure has been an action so far. Clearly actions are some sort of default; or at least they always have been until now.
Treasures should make money; I made an exception for a card that wanted to be played in the buy phase. They should feel like treasures - they make money, or, there's Horn of Plenty again, gain cards.
Ain’t just me dude. The designer himself said in the other thread that there was no deeper meaning, no fine-tuning or whatever behind converting an Action into a Treasure. Also pure coincidence that Shaman did not end up as a Treasure.That was my precisely my point. Actions are not the „standard“ while Treasures are some weird funky edge case that need any rationale. Especially not in an expansion with a lot of Treasures.
You make it sound like a complete coincidence that every other card that works the same as an action or a treasure has been an action so far. Clearly actions are some sort of default; or at least they always have been until now.
Has he said that? Previously Donald clearly stated that only specific cards should be Treasures:Treasures should make money; I made an exception for a card that wanted to be played in the buy phase. They should feel like treasures - they make money, or, there's Horn of Plenty again, gain cards.
Poster asked DXV about why Cage is a Treasure, DXV answered: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=5799.msg899190#msg899190Ain’t just me dude. The designer himself said in the other thread that there was no deeper meaning, no fine-tuning or whatever behind converting an Action into a Treasure. Also pure coincidence that Shaman did not end up as a Treasure.That was my precisely my point. Actions are not the „standard“ while Treasures are some weird funky edge case that need any rationale. Especially not in an expansion with a lot of Treasures.
You make it sound like a complete coincidence that every other card that works the same as an action or a treasure has been an action so far. Clearly actions are some sort of default; or at least they always have been until now.
Has he said that? Previously Donald clearly stated that only specific cards should be Treasures:Treasures should make money; I made an exception for a card that wanted to be played in the buy phase. They should feel like treasures - they make money, or, there's Horn of Plenty again, gain cards.
In the same post, he says that treasure-attacks, treasure-durations, and action-treasures probably aren't worth doing. Things have changed since 2014.15 expansions! At some point you make a Treasure that doesn't make $ or gain a card.
is there still wandering winder? he was always good at realizing when you should just play money.
is there still wandering winder? he was always good at realizing when you should just play money.
Seems like it's been quite a while since any of us have been WanderingWinder here.
Reckless doesn't allow you to use a Way for the repetition of a card, fortunately.
To add to the debate, there’s also the fact that Treasures have historically been, well, Treasure. They were generally precious metals, gems, jewelry, or other generally valuable items or money-alternatives. Cage and Gondola are a bit of a stretch in my mind for that reason, but then I thought about it more and Quarry has been around forever and doesn’t really meet the definition above either.
To add to the debate, there’s also the fact that Treasures have historically been, well, Treasure. They were generally precious metals, gems, jewelry, or other generally valuable items or money-alternatives. Cage and Gondola are a bit of a stretch in my mind for that reason, but then I thought about it more and Quarry has been around forever and doesn’t really meet the definition above either.Also Harem. Though I know we'd all rather forget about Harem.