Dominion Strategy Forum
Dominion => Dominion General Discussion => Topic started by: Donald X. on June 27, 2022, 03:00:12 am
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Hinterlands 2E! What were the odds. But here it is.
Each day for 3 days I'll show 3 cards leaving, and the 3 replacing them, and talk about all six. The last day will throw in the miscellaneous minor errata, and then more minor errata, for other sets. Oops that errata's been spoiled already somehow. Well it will happen then.
As with the other two sets, I had no specific objective for Hinterlands beyond... actually, you know what? This set could use more of a theme. I love having lots of when-gain cards, but it's just a bit invisible. What about... Reactions? The set already has three of them. Yeah, let's go with that. A Reactions subtheme. And then, just taking out bad-to-print cards for good-to-print ones.
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/946677362215518218/990866462988193842/hinterlands_2e_MON1.PNG)
Mandarin is very weak. You heard it here. Good rules of thumb: never get involved in a land war in Asia; don't buy Mandarin.
Weaver has no relation to it; Mandarin was doing nothing for the set. Weaver is a Reaction, starting in on that new subtheme. It's a Workshop, and you can play it when you discard it. Also fitting Hinterlands' other invisible theme, which is filtering.
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/946677362215518218/990866531615395900/hinterlands_2e_MON2.PNG)
Embassy is dull but okay; it lost out on numbers. It was a borderline card that people really didn't need to exist.
Wheelwright is unrelated. You discard a thing to gain a thing. Another way to discard those Tunnels and Weavers. And note that it's the second new way to gain cards, for the set where cards do things when you gain them.
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/946677362215518218/990866592441204826/hinterlands_2e_MON3.PNG)
Oracle isn't weak or strong really, but it's crazy slow. It's the bane of playtesting; they endlessly flip over the card you actually wanted to playtest. I haven't played with it in years, except for one game to make sure I really wanted to get rid of it. I did.
Witch's Hut again ties into the filtering theme. It's both the new Embassy and the attack that replaces Oracle.
As usual, the preview cards will be playable on dominion.games; in fact for those of you who aren't subscribing, previews will include all of Hinterlands.
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I love the the gain-chain potential!
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I'm back with more FAQs.
Weaver:
• You either gain 2 Silvers, or a card costing up to $4 (which might be a Silver).
• You can play this when you discard it; see the When Discarded section. (Oops we can't read it yet. Well you already know Tunnel/Faithful Hound/Village Green.)
• As usual playing it means putting it into play and following its instructions.
• If you play it on another player's turn, it's discarded in that turn's Clean-up.
(Additional ruling: This doesn't work with Elder.)
Wheelwright:
• You may discard any type of card, but can only gain an Action card.
• If you discard an Action card, you can gain a copy of it.
(Additional ruling: if you do discard, you have to gain an Action card if there is one to gain)
Witch's Hut:
• You reveal the discarded cards even if they aren't both Actions.
• If they're both Actions - even if they also have other types - each other player gains a Curse.
(Additional ruling: Yes this reveals Patron.)
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Surprised Embassy got cut. Also rip Mandarin-Capital for the three people who cared about that.
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Embassy I rarely played with it. Honestly it was on my hate list and then overtime put it as a mediocre. So I’m happy to see embassy replaced. There’s only one card I disliked more in this set. It’s replacement wheelhouse is interesting I could see myself discarding an estate for a 2$ action card or a discarding a silver for a 3$ action or a duchy/province for a 5$ action card. Plus it lets you draw a card and gives you an action. So far wheelhouse is my favorite.
Mandarin was cool at first because you could ensure you have enough to buy a 5$ card the next turn, but that could also mean it would be longer before you could play actions. Plus the action of the card was mediocre at best. And then I didn’t find myself wanting more than one mandarin in my deck. So mandarin went from being cool to close to the bottom of the barrel, there’s only 4 cards I dislike more than mandarin. It’s replacement weaver is a reaction. Which is going to have some synergy with oasis, margrave, cartographer, ect. I like when there’s a new card in the synergy. I think I’m going to like weaver a lot.
Oracle I liked it a tiny bit more than mandarin, but the attack I’ve always found weak and with the benefit i only disliked 5 cards more. It’s replacement witch’s hut is interesting, just think if you discarded to weavers with it. You could gain 2 cards costing up to 4$/4 silvers and give everyone a minus point card plus of course by drawing 4 cards first. It would be quite the combo, heck I would do another action if I could if I only had one weaver. So obviously this will have synergy with weaver too! Not bad, not bad at all. Still might be worth doing if you played the witch’s hut and ran out of +actions and then you could put those action cards to use to attack, that’s something totally worth doing unlike embassy, I feel like witch’s hut is a better replacement for embassy.
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Mandarin was an obvious cut and I won't miss Oracle, which I found a bit tedious, but I'm stunned that Embassy was cut... thought that one was completely safe! That is definitely a card I'll miss.
At least Witch's hut is somewhat similar and interesting.
There seem to be a lot of new workshop variants lately.
Based on the recommended set it means we know the names of all of the new cards, with one exception, as that identified six new cards, only one (wheelwright) of which appears in this list of previews.
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Wheelwright: Can you choose to discard a card when there wouldn't be an action to gain?
For example: The kingdom is all actions of cost 4+, and Tunnel.
Can I play Wheelwright and choose to discard Tunnel to trigger its When-Discard effect?
The reason I ask is that the pesky "Do X to do Y" wordings sometimes implies there must be a Y, in some games.
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Hey, Hinterlands got a new icon! Is that to prevent confusion with Menagerie?
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No, its just for second editions (I think).
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Why isn't Witch's Hut listed as the replacement for Embassy? It's literally just Embassy with less sifting and the junking attack moved to on-play instead of on-gain.
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Wheelwright: Can you choose to discard a card when there wouldn't be an action to gain?
For example: The kingdom is all actions of cost 4+, and Tunnel.
Can I play Wheelwright and choose to discard Tunnel to trigger its When-Discard effect?
The reason I ask is that the pesky "Do X to do Y" wordings sometimes implies there must be a Y, in some games.
I would say yes. You do as much as you can do. So, in this scenario, you discard a Tunnel. Then you gain an Action card costing up to $3. In this case, there's nothing to gain, so you don't gain anything. There's no if-clause before the "you may discard a card"
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Mandarin was an obvious cut and I won't miss Oracle, which I found a bit tedious, but I'm stunned that Embassy was cut... thought that one was completely safe! That is definitely a card I'll miss.
At least Witch's hut is somewhat similar and interesting.
There seem to be a lot of new workshop variants lately.
Based on the recommended set it means we know the names of all of the new cards, with one exception, as that identified six new cards, only one (wheelwright) of which appears in this list of previews.
Yeah, Mandarin required some rather specific combos to really be useful, so I won't much miss it, but I'm really sad to see Embassy go
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Nice Baba Yaga reference on the Witch Hut
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It's neat that Wheelwright works with Potion and Debt cost cards. Looking forward to choosing to play such a card or to gain a copy of it.
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Liking the new cards. Always bummed to see cards go for a reason other than being terrible - I never had problems with Oracle resolving slowly - but it’s not like iconic cards have left the set. So far this is my favorite 2022 update as far as removed cards goes.
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Witch's Hut seems more like a sifter that can sometimes curse. Having to discard two Actions is a pretty high price in many kingdoms. Honestly it feels like a nerfed Embassy in the games I've played with it so far
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Embassy was fun to get in games where silver was junk, but that rarely mattered anyway because Embassy itself can filter them. And once again I'm loving the new art.
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Why isn't Witch's Hut listed as the replacement for Embassy? It's literally just Embassy with less sifting and the junking attack moved to on-play instead of on-gain.
Because "attack" is a slot and "be Embassy" isn't. And the format I picked doesn't let me show a card replacing two cards; all I can do is mention that in the text.
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Witch's hut goes straight to the top tier of card art for me. Love it. At first glance I thought it was a floating cabin, which is cool! Then I saw the legs and loved it even more.
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Oracle and Embassy both had their issues, but in general I do like the idea of a draw card that sifts while only increasing handsize by 1. It's a limitation makes engine building a bit more challenging, sometimes producing wheel-spinning engines that barely increase handsize at all.
Glad to see the concept live on in a much more interesting card, Witch's Hut. It seems like the choice of whether to discard actions may often be an interesting decision. I expect that sometimes it will lead to snowballs, where one player hands out almost all the curses. In other games, it may lead to terminal draw decks that are happy drawing actions dead.
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Witches Hut. So good they had to give it two piles! 8)
(https://brianclune.nimbusweb.me/box/attachment/7159668/1uoqcdn62q0xg4ru7zfl/N9lXWqlQkY0y2W9Z/screenshot-dominion.games-2022.06.27-14_23_36.jpg)
This actually happened 2 games in a row. But the third it did not... :o
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FWIW all of these cards are fairly weak. Some edge application, but mostly they are very pedestrian. In the games where we played you pretty much had to play non-optimally to even get them in your deck.
Of the 3 wheelwright is the only one I would probably even buy on a regular basis, but I imagine there would probably be better 5 cost options there.
After really hitting it out of the park IMHO on seaside and prosperity 2E's, this one lands with a thud. Really underwhelming.
I mean Oracle at 3 is better than weaver at 4. Compared to oracle even though it replaced Mandarin (which i really don't like getting) per costs. But even Mandarin is a much better card than this for most decks.
Embassy is better than Witches Hut too as it doesn't really on drawing 2 actions you want to throw away) in mega draw or action engines with little draw Witches hut would be good for a deck (but embassy would be better). I guess Wheelwright holds up vis a viz Mandarin, but not to embassy. Witches Hut will be bought/be ok in games where it's the only draw or curser, but pales in comparison to witch on most boards, which is a fairly weak 5 cost curser.
Maybe more play will change my opinions as it's a very small sample size, but I imagine not too many will be excited to see these cards in a halfway decent kingdom.
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If the dominion.games bots had emotions, they'd be sad to see Oracle go — it's one of their favourite cards! ;D
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It's neat that Wheelwright works with Potion and Debt cost cards. Looking forward to choosing to play such a card or to gain a copy of it.
Wheelwright would only work with debt (or potion) cost cards if there was a corresponding debt or potion card that cost less in the engine, no? Hopefully I am wrong as I always thought they should count for the debt cost and be treated as a card that is ore expensive than its corresponding cost cards. Like you could discard a golem and get a 4 cost card or less or could discard an * debt card because it is more expensive to need a potion, but that debt cards it would have to be less than the debt cost as debt is cheaper than cash ergo the cash cards cost more.
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Witch's Hut seems more like a sifter that can sometimes curse. Having to discard two Actions is a pretty high price in many kingdoms. Honestly it feels like a nerfed Embassy in the games I've played with it so far
In oner game I played we both bought witches hut and only handed out 2 curses the entire game
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Witch's hut goes straight to the top tier of card art for me. Love it. At first glance I thought it was a floating cabin, which is cool! Then I saw the legs and loved it even more.
have you played it yet? It's really not a top tier card at all. More mid to low imo.
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There are plenty of games where the correct strategy is to build a deck that consists almost entirely of action cards. Or entirely of action cards.
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Witch's hut goes straight to the top tier of card art for me. Love it. At first glance I thought it was a floating cabin, which is cool! Then I saw the legs and loved it even more.
Some good Baba Yaga energy
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It's neat that Wheelwright works with Potion and Debt cost cards. Looking forward to choosing to play such a card or to gain a copy of it.
Wheelwright would only work with debt (or potion) cost cards if there was a corresponding debt or potion card that cost less in the engine, no? Hopefully I am wrong as I always thought they should count for the debt cost and be treated as a card that is ore expensive than its corresponding cost cards. Like you could discard a golem and get a 4 cost card or less or could discard an * debt card because it is more expensive to need a potion, but that debt cards it would have to be less than the debt cost as debt is cheaper than cash ergo the cash cards cost more.
Potions, dollars and debt are entirely separate types of resource. For a card to cost the same as another card, it has to cost exactly as many potions, exactly as many dollars and exactly as many debt. For a card to cost less than another card, at least one of the three values has to be lower and none of them are allowed to be higher. If you discard a Golem (a card that costs one potion, four dollars and zero debt) to Wheelwright, you can gain a card that costs at most one potion, at most four dollars and at most zero debt (for example, a Golem).
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Playing a lil more I am coming around more on the witches hut. It's basically just a hunting grounds without TFB and with a possibility of handing out a curse. The game I played it in had no actions and marginal draw though, and that is where this card does shine.
And I think I like Wheelwright a little more too. Especially since it can toss duchies and provinces for actions.
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Witch's Hut seems more like a sifter that can sometimes curse. Having to discard two Actions is a pretty high price in many kingdoms. Honestly it feels like a nerfed Embassy in the games I've played with it so far
I could see it being good in combination with actions that like to be discarded, like Village Green
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Witch's Hut seems more like a sifter that can sometimes curse. Having to discard two Actions is a pretty high price in many kingdoms. Honestly it feels like a nerfed Embassy in the games I've played with it so far
I could see it being good in combination with actions that like to be discarded, like Village Green
I guess we could toss in weaver there too.
Weaver will be amazing in Conquest/feodem/decks that reward heavy gaining (tribute, commerce.
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There are plenty of games where the correct strategy is to build a deck that consists almost entirely of action cards. Or entirely of action cards.
in mega decks with heavy actions/draw Witches hut will be amazing.
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It's neat that Wheelwright works with Potion and Debt cost cards. Looking forward to choosing to play such a card or to gain a copy of it.
Wheelwright would only work with debt (or potion) cost cards if there was a corresponding debt or potion card that cost less in the engine, no? Hopefully I am wrong as I always thought they should count for the debt cost and be treated as a card that is ore expensive than its corresponding cost cards. Like you could discard a golem and get a 4 cost card or less or could discard an * debt card because it is more expensive to need a potion, but that debt cards it would have to be less than the debt cost as debt is cheaper than cash ergo the cash cards cost more.
Potions, dollars and debt are entirely separate types of resource. For a card to cost the same as another card, it has to cost exactly as many potions, exactly as many dollars and exactly as many debt. For a card to cost less than another card, at least one of the three values has to be lower and none of them are allowed to be higher. If you discard a Golem (a card that costs one potion, four dollars and zero debt) to Wheelwright, you can gain a card that costs at most one potion, at most four dollars and at most zero debt (for example, a Golem).
I know how it is, i just think it should be different.
Like simple math says that 4 coins and a potion cost more than 4 coins. Ergo if Barbarian trashed possession it should get a 6 or less, not zippo as in the status quo.
Same with debt cards. Debt is just borrowed but really doesn't change the "cost" of the card ( a concept lost on most people in the real world) just how much you have to pay upfront to buy it. It really evens costs more since being in debt can impede your abilities on the next turn a la black market. If a City Quarter/Overlord gets trashed now you get nothing (unless an engineer happens to be there) and that is crap and so swingy its ridiculous.
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There are plenty of games where the correct strategy is to build a deck that consists almost entirely of action cards. Or entirely of action cards.
in mega decks with heavy actions/draw Witches hut will be amazing.
I just played a game like that. Worked out well for me, but my opponent really didn't play it right. I feel like if engine ingredients are really that strong, trashing will likely be strong enough to deal with the curses, too.
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Witch's hut goes straight to the top tier of card art for me. Love it. At first glance I thought it was a floating cabin, which is cool! Then I saw the legs and loved it even more.
have you played it yet? It's really not a top tier card at all. More mid to low imo.
No I haven't. But I don't need to play it to think that the art is top tier.
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It's neat that Wheelwright works with Potion and Debt cost cards. Looking forward to choosing to play such a card or to gain a copy of it.
Wheelwright would only work with debt (or potion) cost cards if there was a corresponding debt or potion card that cost less in the engine, no? Hopefully I am wrong as I always thought they should count for the debt cost and be treated as a card that is ore expensive than its corresponding cost cards. Like you could discard a golem and get a 4 cost card or less or could discard an * debt card because it is more expensive to need a potion, but that debt cards it would have to be less than the debt cost as debt is cheaper than cash ergo the cash cards cost more.
It can gain a copy of what's discarded. So, for example, you can discard an Overlord to gain another Overlord (I had a game with just that combo - Overlord was quickly emptied out!). And you can get a card without potion or debt if the coin part is less. E.g., you can discard a Golem for something costing up to $4P, which can include $4 with no potion cost
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I know how it is
Well, that doesn't appear to be the case.
Like simple math says that 4 coins and a potion cost more than 4 coins.
And so do the rules of the game, just like I just explained.
Ergo if Barbarian trashed possession it should get a 6 or less, not zippo as in the status quo.
If Barbarian trashes a Possession, the player being attacked does indeed get an Action costing less than $6P, which could be e.g. an Altar or a Familiar (but not an Engineer because Engineer costs 4 debt more than Possession does, and is therefore not a cheaper card).
Same with debt cards. Debt is just borrowed but really doesn't change the "cost" of the card ( a concept lost on most people in the real world) just how much you have to pay upfront to buy it. It really evens costs more since being in debt can impede your abilities on the next turn a la black market. If a City Quarter/Overlord gets trashed now you get nothing (unless an engineer happens to be there) and that is crap and so swingy its ridiculous.
Debt is an entirely different type of cost, it has nothing to do with dollars (how you get rid of the debt tokens afterwards does, but that's entirely irrelevant). An Overlord costs 8 debt, 0 dollars and 0 potions so of course you can't gain a card that costs more than 8 debt, more than 0 dollars or more than 0 potions since that would not be a cheaper card (and in the case of Barbarian specifically, Overlord doesn't cost at least 3 dollars, since it doesn't cost even one dollar, so you just gain a Curse).
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Witch's Hut seems more like a sifter that can sometimes curse. Having to discard two Actions is a pretty high price in many kingdoms. Honestly it feels like a nerfed Embassy in the games I've played with it so far
I could see it being good in combination with actions that like to be discarded, like Village Green
Or revealed, since it tells you to reveal the card! Had a neat game with Patron where I discarded Patrons for coffers along with Cursing my opponent. That also had a strong drawing engine and Mastermind, so it resulted in Witch's Hut being absurdly powerful, since i could usually end up drawing back the cards I discarded to Witch's Hut on the same turn
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My initial impression based on a bunch of games is that Witch's Hut and Wheelwright are both on the stronger half of $5s but not super close to the top, they were both relevant and substantially impactful a lot of the time, but nothing gamebreakingly OP. I liked Witch's Hut in particular, because it's a $5 junking attack that doesn't instantly ShiT up the game if one player has a 5/2 and the other doesn't, it's surprisingly usable as the main terminal draw of an engine despite only being +1 handsize but not without substantially changing how you have to approach building it, and there are interesting decisions to when to discard Actions (my intuition so far is that probably most of the time if you have the Actions in your hand even if they're good and you could play them, but it's not always obvious).
Weaver, on the other hand, was only relevant once and it was because I bought Captain (Captain is a super OP card, right?) without paying attention to the kingdom, in which Weaver was the only card it could play. So I gained a bunch of Silvers that game, which was not at all what I was trying to do.
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There seem to be a lot of new workshop variants lately.
Agree, and I'm not a big fan of Workshop cards, although they're okay in some kingdoms.
We've seen a rise in cursers as well.
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I can't resist speculating (again!) on the remaining six cards that will be removed. I'm thinking they're most likely:
Develop, Duchess, Ill-Gotten Gains, Cache, Nomad Camp and Noble Brigand
I include Nomad Camp because one of the new cards is Nomads, and there's one card I thought might be cut (Farmland) that is included in the suggested sets for the Seaside Second Edition, indicating that it's not being removed.
The first edition includes 8 blank cards. Seaside has 12 blank cards and removed them instead of an actual card, which could happen with Hinterlands too, though it seems unlikely with 26 kingdom cards already and the fact that, for Seaside, the first removed card was the blank. If I had to tip one of the six to keep it would be Develop. It if often considered weak and rather awkward though I quite like it, and can occasionally be good to gain on your deck a 5/3 or 6/4 or occasionally even 7/5.
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I am here to eat some crow. First impressions aren't always correct. Frankly, all three cards are pretty good. And in retrospect, I'd probably actually rather have them over the cards they replaced.
Witch hut is very good. Much more as a sifter draw than a curser, but occasional curses are a nice bonus.
Wheelwright is actually pretty bonkers. It cantrips and the gains can be very nice as often you have big vp cards or dead actions in hand to toss anyway. I'm not even sure I'm fully playing it wright yet, but this seems like a very powerful card.
Weaver is pretty neat actually. the flexibility of a workshop like gain that can gain two silvers really boost your early economy. That it also plays as. the reaction is pretty neat too.
Funny the difference a few games can have.
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Witch's hut goes straight to the top tier of card art for me. Love it. At first glance I thought it was a floating cabin, which is cool! Then I saw the legs and loved it even more.
have you played it yet? It's really not a top tier card at all. More mid to low imo.
No I haven't. But I don't need to play it to think that the art is top tier.
oof. But I agree. The talon legs are pretty crazy on that deliverance cabin.
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It's neat that Wheelwright works with Potion and Debt cost cards. Looking forward to choosing to play such a card or to gain a copy of it.
Wheelwright would only work with debt (or potion) cost cards if there was a corresponding debt or potion card that cost less in the engine, no? Hopefully I am wrong as I always thought they should count for the debt cost and be treated as a card that is ore expensive than its corresponding cost cards. Like you could discard a golem and get a 4 cost card or less or could discard an * debt card because it is more expensive to need a potion, but that debt cards it would have to be less than the debt cost as debt is cheaper than cash ergo the cash cards cost more.
It can gain a copy of what's discarded. So, for example, you can discard an Overlord to gain another Overlord (I had a game with just that combo - Overlord was quickly emptied out!). And you can get a card without potion or debt if the coin part is less. E.g., you can discard a Golem for something costing up to $4P, which can include $4 with no potion cost
Ohhhh. I honestly did not realize that it could gain a copy of the card discarded. I must've just not noticed all this plusses. Wow it's even better now.
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Witch's Hut seems more like a sifter that can sometimes curse. Having to discard two Actions is a pretty high price in many kingdoms. Honestly it feels like a nerfed Embassy in the games I've played with it so far
I could see it being good in combination with actions that like to be discarded, like Village Green
Or revealed, since it tells you to reveal the card! Had a neat game with Patron where I discarded Patrons for coffers along with Cursing my opponent. That also had a strong drawing engine and Mastermind, so it resulted in Witch's Hut being absurdly powerful, since i could usually end up drawing back the cards I discarded to Witch's Hut on the same turn
that's neat. hadn't noticed the reveal vs discard thing.
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My initial impression based on a bunch of games is that Witch's Hut and Wheelwright are both on the stronger half of $5s but not super close to the top, they were both relevant and substantially impactful a lot of the time, but nothing gamebreakingly OP. I liked Witch's Hut in particular, because it's a $5 junking attack that doesn't instantly ShiT up the game if one player has a 5/2 and the other doesn't, it's surprisingly usable as the main terminal draw of an engine despite only being +1 handsize but not without substantially changing how you have to approach building it, and there are interesting decisions to when to discard Actions (my intuition so far is that probably most of the time if you have the Actions in your hand even if they're good and you could play them, but it's not always obvious).
Weaver, on the other hand, was only relevant once and it was because I bought Captain (Captain is a super OP card, right?) without paying attention to the kingdom, in which Weaver was the only card it could play. So I gained a bunch of Silvers that game, which was not at all what I was trying to do.
weaver plays well in anything that involves discarding too. And there are a lot of actions that discard and hand size attacks.
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My initial impression based on a bunch of games is that Witch's Hut and Wheelwright are both on the stronger half of $5s but not super close to the top, they were both relevant and substantially impactful a lot of the time, but nothing gamebreakingly OP. I liked Witch's Hut in particular, because it's a $5 junking attack that doesn't instantly ShiT up the game if one player has a 5/2 and the other doesn't, it's surprisingly usable as the main terminal draw of an engine despite only being +1 handsize but not without substantially changing how you have to approach building it, and there are interesting decisions to when to discard Actions (my intuition so far is that probably most of the time if you have the Actions in your hand even if they're good and you could play them, but it's not always obvious).
Weaver, on the other hand, was only relevant once and it was because I bought Captain (Captain is a super OP card, right?) without paying attention to the kingdom, in which Weaver was the only card it could play. So I gained a bunch of Silvers that game, which was not at all what I was trying to do.
weaver plays well in anything that involves discarding too. And there are a lot of actions that discard and hand size attacks.
Well, it also depends on what's available costing up to $4. If that's only Silver, it's not too terribly useful
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My initial impression based on a bunch of games is that Witch's Hut and Wheelwright are both on the stronger half of $5s but not super close to the top, they were both relevant and substantially impactful a lot of the time, but nothing gamebreakingly OP. I liked Witch's Hut in particular, because it's a $5 junking attack that doesn't instantly ShiT up the game if one player has a 5/2 and the other doesn't, it's surprisingly usable as the main terminal draw of an engine despite only being +1 handsize but not without substantially changing how you have to approach building it, and there are interesting decisions to when to discard Actions (my intuition so far is that probably most of the time if you have the Actions in your hand even if they're good and you could play them, but it's not always obvious).
Weaver, on the other hand, was only relevant once and it was because I bought Captain (Captain is a super OP card, right?) without paying attention to the kingdom, in which Weaver was the only card it could play. So I gained a bunch of Silvers that game, which was not at all what I was trying to do.
weaver plays well in anything that involves discarding too. And there are a lot of actions that discard and hand size attacks.
Well, it also depends on what's available costing up to $4. If that's only Silver, it's not too terribly useful
There's always at least Weaver!
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I remember on the Donald Xs complaints about the original Hinterlands being that the cards were more complex than they needed to be. Duchess didn't need the Spy effect, Trader and Fools Gold didn't need the Reaction, Spice Merchant may not have needed the Woodcutter effect.
But now 2 of the new cards have fairly obscure additional effects - the Cursing of Witch's Hut (quite costly to activate) and the Silver gaining of Weaver.
I never agreed with the original sentiment - Trader's reaction is brilliant and Spice Merchant's Woodcutter effect makes it an interesting late game card, especially when it's the only +buy in the Kingdom. I like how Witch's Hut impacts the late game (in games that are otherwise heading for a tie).
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But now 2 of the new cards have fairly obscure additional effects - the Cursing of Witch's Hut (quite hard to activate)
The cursing of Witch's Hut is quite easy to activate.
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Quite "costly" I've changed it to, though it's a nice consolation prize for drawing Actions dead.