Dominion Strategy Forum
Dominion => Dominion General Discussion => Topic started by: Commodore Chuckles on April 11, 2022, 07:33:38 pm
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Rebuild is generally not fun to play with because even if it doesn't automatically win, it still interacts with so very few other cards. Since it upgrades things that AREN'T in your hand and don't ever NEED to be in your hand, you don't want to draw and you don't want to trash.
Having said that, has anyone actually had a game where Rebuild was interesting? I remember at least one game where it had a somewhat interesting interaction with Wild Hunt, gaining Estates and then upgrading them.
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It's not substantially less fun than a big money game, but it makes the game way faster, which means you get a chance to roll a more interesting kingdom faster. So, overall, Rebuild increases the amount of fun you have.
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It's not substantially less fun than a big money game, but it makes the game way faster, which means you get a chance to roll a more interesting kingdom faster. So, overall, Rebuild increases the amount of fun you have.
Wait until you hear about how fast a turn 1 resign speeds up the game.
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If only my opponents would do that more often when Rebuild comes up 8)
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Really if you hate the card, add it to your ban list; Donald doesn't seem to be a fan of it either.
There are a number of cards I consider less fun, so for me it's not a big deal; the inevitable Rebuild mirror matches are at least reasonably balanced and over quickly as mentioned.
People rated lower than ~60 can often seem to fall into the trap of rushing it too quickly (like as their first $5), without getting just a little bit of economy first. You want to be able to hit $5 regularly and have a reasonable chance at spiking $8 if the board permits
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No; it earned its place on the banlist next to Wall and Annex as decidedly unfun cards.
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I like Rebuild quite a lot overall. The standard Rebuild thing is a unique deck in Dominion. It's a bit boring but still has some deck composition choices, deck tracking stuff, and interactive/endgame VP stuff. I can appreciate playing it in the uncommon cases nowadays that you both see Rebuild and that deck looks good. The fast pace is nice.
Rebuild's low level of interactivity with other kingdom cards has at least one upside to me, it can result in very divergent decks if people don't mirror. It's fun to see games where it's the kingdom vs Rebuild. People probably hate this about it, but the fact that Rebuild with decent draws can put pressure on a lot of decks can add some tension to games, even when Rebuild is not very good.
I wouldn't want to play it as often as you did when Dark Ages released, but in this card pool I'm a fan.
Once in a blue moon you can roll a board where the VP upgrading is good engine payload and you have control of what the Rebuild hits through discard stuff or whatever.
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[Rebuild] earned its place on the banlist next to Wall and Annex as decidedly unfun cards.
Annex? People care about Annex? Is there a less relevant event? :o
As Empire landscapes go, surely Triumphal Arch is the most annoying to bother tracking, I ban it :)
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No; it earned its place on the banlist next to Wall and Annex as decidedly unfun cards.
I like Wall, I'm surprised how often I see it on ban lists.
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[Rebuild] earned its place on the banlist next to Wall and Annex as decidedly unfun cards.
Annex? People care about Annex? Is there a less relevant event? :o
As Empire landscapes go, surely Triumphal Arch is the most annoying to bother tracking, I ban it :)
I care about the cards I roll being consequential but not centralizing, so quest and annex get the snip for not being the former
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Annex? People care about Annex? Is there a less relevant event? :o
Raid.
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I definitely buy Raid more often than Annex even excluding Feodum boards, but I suppose both are similarly low-impact.
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I definitely buy Raid more often than Annex even excluding Feodum boards, but I suppose both are similarly low-impact.
Annex turns a spare buy into 3 VP for whoever is ending the game, that's not nothing.
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Indeed, that's almost all it does
Quite funny to see someone call it out as worth banning when 99% of the time you can just pretend you're playing without it
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Indeed, that's almost all it does
Quite funny to see someone call it out as worth banning when 99% of the time you can just pretend you're playing without it
The reason some people ban useless things like Annex is because they're taking up the place where something better can be if you're playing full random.
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Indeed, that's almost all it does
Quite funny to see someone call it out as worth banning when 99% of the time you can just pretend you're playing without it
The reason some people ban useless things like Annex is because they're taking up the place where something better can be if you're playing full random.
That makes sense for kingdom cards, but in most cases, if you ban Annex, you just get one fewer thing in the kingdom where Annex would have otherwise shown up.
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For me rebuild is a so-so card. If you only have 15 minutes to play not including the set up and time it takes to put it away, then rebuild is just about the only card you can play with to end it that fast, except for maybe I’ll gotten gains in a 2 player game. So I first started playing with it I found it amazing and I liked it, but now I realize that it ruins the strategy of dominion. If rebuild is in the game the player who can buy the estates and rebuilds the fastest will usually win unless your able to buy some duchies to block some estates turning into duchies. But yeah the majority of the other cards are ignored in a game of rebuild.
Oh yeah don’t you think it’s interesting Donald’s favorite card is rats! I also personally love playing with rats!
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I personally have never played with Rebuild in person, since it's on my ban list in my randomizer app. It feels like it would a lot slower, as all digging cards are. For people who have done it, was it bearable?
Overall, I don't hate the card as much as I did maybe 6 years ago when I first got into the game. But I would still rather play a game without it than with it, so it's on my banlist online as well.
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Indeed, that's almost all it does
Quite funny to see someone call it out as worth banning when 99% of the time you can just pretend you're playing without it
The reason some people ban useless things like Annex is because they're taking up the place where something better can be if you're playing full random.
That makes sense for kingdom cards, but in most cases, if you ban Annex, you just get one fewer thing in the kingdom where Annex would have otherwise shown up.
If you follow the rule recommendation, with now over 130 existing landscapes, most full random kingdoms will have the maximum two landscapes. So keeping Annex does often mean having one fewer thing that is relevant.
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I personally have never played with Rebuild in person, since it's on my ban list in my randomizer app. It feels like it would a lot slower, as all digging cards are. For people who have done it, was it bearable?
I haven't played Rebuild with physical cards yet, where the digging may be time-consuming (though probably less so than e.g. Hunting Party, because you can see at first glance whether you keep digging or not).
Online, Rebuild's digging takes practically no time, as there's no decisions involved until a victory card has been found.
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I don’t get why people defend the most ridiculously overpowered card in the game. It is a conditional cantrip Expand for $5, that is beyond lunatic.
By that logic, Mine is an Expand that gains to hand for $5 and must be one of the most ridiculously overpowered cards in the game as well.
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If only treasures were powerful ;D
I think Donald said Rebuild would be better without the +action, which seems right.
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I don’t get why people defend the most ridiculously overpowered card in the game. It is a conditional cantrip Expand for $5, that is beyond lunatic.
By that logic, Mine is an Expand that gains to hand for $5 and must be one of the most ridiculously overpowered cards in the game as well.
Rebuild might actually be fun if trashed from your hand like Expand and Mine. That would at least encourage you to buy things that put Victory cards into your hand (like Scout!)
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I always find it funny when you combine Rebuild with draw engines and are annoyed the victory card you wan to target is in your hand with no way to discard it.
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If only treasures were powerful ;D
I think Donald said Rebuild would be better without the +action, which seems right.
Maybe. But a BM strategy with such a "terminal Rebuild" is barely stronger than Smithy-BM according to simulations, so terminal Rebuild would probably be too weak to matter on many boards.
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It's not like Expand and Mine are particularly game-breaking either. They can't all be the best card ever.
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If anything, terminal Rebuild would be even more monolithic. There's less action space in your deck.
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If anything, terminal Rebuild would be even more monolithic. There's less action space in your deck.
But it would force more support to be able to play more than one per turn, wouldn’t it? I haven’t played Rebuild a ton, so I’m not sure how important it is to play more than one at a time.
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Imagine Goons with +1 action. The point of a terminal rebuild is to make it harder to simply spam a good card, not that good cards shouldn't exist.
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Rebuild could be compared to Distant Lands. Unlike Distant Lands, it's non-terminal, only gives 2-3 VP, and isn't a one-shot. But I think what really makes Rebuild distinct is the way it drains Victory piles, particularly Provinces. A VP card needs to drain piles to prevent stalemates, but draining Provinces with a non-terminal $5 is too much. If Rebuild didn't do that, I think it would be fine in the same way Distant Lands is fine.
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It's like Distant Lands in that it's a card you play to get VP ...and is basically different in every other way ;)
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Gherald, you seem interested in tearing other people's analysis down for your own amusement. You might have considered that my point was to identify the differences and think about which difference was most important. I'm not going to interact with you again.
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Needing splitters for terminals to work has little to do with how centralizing a card is. Goons is not non-centralizing because it is terminal.
But it makes it harder to spam them. If Rebuild was terminal there is a very real chance you could lose just because your Rebuilds collided one too many times.
Non terminal Rebuild is a one-horse engine. Terminal Rebuild is risky without Villages and That essentially forces you into building a regular engine with draw and trashing and suddenly Rebuild is just Expand but only for Victory cards.
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I just played a game online with rebuild and embargo in the set. My opponent went right for the rebuild strategy while I went for embargo and I was able to embargo the duchy pile twice before he got his first duchy. Then I embargoed it again and he ended up with all the curses. All 10 curses! And no way to trash the curses! We also had salt the earth and I trashed 2 duchies and 1 estate which got me 3 victory tokens. And I had 3 provinces at the end of the game. And won by 1 point!
So if you want to try to stop opponents from using rebuild, try a game with salt the earth and embargo too! And no other trashers! Which I guess won’t randomly happen in an online game very often.
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Rebuild games are usually about winning or at least breaking even on the Duchy split (promote 3 estates and buy the 4th duchy to prevent your opponent from getting it, generally) -- but with Duchies embargoed and esp. with no trashing it makes more sense to gain some estates and promote those.
Salt the Earth can throw a wrench into any VP plan, but I'm not sure its presence makes Rebuild any less viable relative to alternatives.. maybe if it's used to deplete duchies too quickly.
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I just played a game online with rebuild and embargo in the set. My opponent went right for the rebuild strategy while I went for embargo and I was able to embargo the duchy pile twice before he got his first duchy. Then I embargoed it again and he ended up with all the curses. All 10 curses! And no way to trash the curses! We also had salt the earth and I trashed 2 duchies and 1 estate which got me 3 victory tokens. And I had 3 provinces at the end of the game. And won by 1 point!
So if you want to try to stop opponents from using rebuild, try a game with salt the earth and embargo too! And no other trashers! Which I guess won’t randomly happen in an online game very often.
If Rebuild is correct in the set, the opponent can just buy more Rebuilds and Estates instead of Duchies. It's a bit slower than buying Duchies but not as much as gaining 10 Curses.
Salt the Earth just helps the Rebuild player end the game faster.
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no.
it's why i have it banned.
It's never ever fun.
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No; it earned its place on the banlist next to Wall and Annex as decidedly unfun cards.
I like Wall, I'm surprised how often I see it on ban lists.
totally agree. The weird wall interplay is a lot of fun with making a fine tuned deck.
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Annex? People care about Annex? Is there a less relevant event? :o
Raid.
I also have this banned. But sheerly out of how bad it is. I'd rather have any other event than this in play.