Does this count as a novel way to overpay?
(https://imgur.com/Y96p5tz.png)
Bibliothecary: Someone has to maintain the libraries! Archaic name for librarian, this card nets out to a terminal Discard 2, Draw 3, unless you've managed to shrink your handsize by playing non-draw actions first that is. And hey, here are some villagers to help you out with that!
(https://i.imgur.com/7nb0lx4h.png) | Quote from: Scoundrel SCOUNDREL |
(https://i.imgur.com/sJ3InmTh.png) | Quote from: Topiary Garden TOPIARY GARDEN |
TotemThis qualifies, this is a novel way to use overpay. If you use this with, say, Masterpiece, do you also do Masterpiece's overpay (that is, is it double dipping)? Or are the two forms of overpay separate?
Action $4
+1 Card
+1 Action
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________
While this is in play, when you buy a non-victory card you may overpay $1 per $2 it costs (round up). If you do gain a copy of it.
- Don't know if this is in the rules for this or not, so apologies if it isn't.
TotemThis qualifies, this is a novel way to use overpay. If you use this with, say, Masterpiece, do you also do Masterpiece's overpay (that is, is it double dipping)? Or are the two forms of overpay separate?
Action $4
+1 Card
+1 Action
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________
While this is in play, when you buy a non-victory card you may overpay $1 per $2 it costs (round up). If you do gain a copy of it.
- Don't know if this is in the rules for this or not, so apologies if it isn't.
TotemThis qualifies, this is a novel way to use overpay. If you use this with, say, Masterpiece, do you also do Masterpiece's overpay (that is, is it double dipping)? Or are the two forms of overpay separate?
Action $4
+1 Card
+1 Action
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________
While this is in play, when you buy a non-victory card you may overpay $1 per $2 it costs (round up). If you do gain a copy of it.
- Don't know if this is in the rules for this or not, so apologies if it isn't.
If you have enough money available you can use either or both overpay options.
Note though that the additional card from Totem is gained, not bought, so you can only use the overpay option on the card you initially bought, not the second copy gained with Totem. This only makes a difference with Stonemason though.
This looks too good relative to Province.
Let us assume an average of 4 Provinces per player. This is the same as buying Topiary Gardens 4 times while overpaying 5 each time such that there are 60 tokens on the mat. Now the Topiary Gardens are worth as many VPs as Provinces with the additional feature that you can buy further 6VP cards for $3.
TotemThis qualifies, this is a novel way to use overpay. If you use this with, say, Masterpiece, do you also do Masterpiece's overpay (that is, is it double dipping)? Or are the two forms of overpay separate?
Action $4
+1 Card
+1 Action
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________
While this is in play, when you buy a non-victory card you may overpay $1 per $2 it costs (round up). If you do gain a copy of it.
- Don't know if this is in the rules for this or not, so apologies if it isn't.
If you have enough money available you can use either or both overpay options.
Note though that the additional card from Totem is gained, not bought, so you can only use the overpay option on the card you initially bought, not the second copy gained with Totem. This only makes a difference with Stonemason though.
That doesn't really answer spineflu's question. What he meant was, if you buy Masterpiece and overpay by (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/3/3d/Coin2.png/16px-Coin2.png), do you gain an extra Masterpiece and 2 Silvers, or would you have to overpay (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/3/3d/Coin2.png/16px-Coin2.png) for Totem's effect and another (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/3/3d/Coin2.png/16px-Coin2.png) for Masterpiece's overpay separately? I gather from your "if you have enough money available" qualifier that you intend for the latter?
(https://i.imgur.com/ZB5zAFnh.jpg)
Uproar
Action ($4)
+1 Card
+1 Action
You may discard 2 cards for +2 Cards.
-----
When you buy this you may overpay for it. If you overpaid at least:
$1: Each other player Exiles a Curse.
$2: Each other player with 5 or more cards in hand puts a card from their hand onto their deck.
The on play is a weaker version of forum, as you only get to draw 1 card before having to decide what to discard (it is optional at least). The main idea of the card however, is the overpay. I wanted to try making an on-gain "attack" that was dependent on overpaying. Because players could potentially gain a few of these in a turn, I wanted to keep the attacks fairly on the light side, since the card itself is a cantrip and won't junk you up like IGG might.
(https://i.imgur.com/ZB5zAFnh.jpg)
Uproar
Action ($4)
+1 Card
+1 Action
You may discard 2 cards for +2 Cards.
-----
When you buy this you may overpay for it. If you overpaid at least:
$1: Each other player Exiles a Curse.
$2: Each other player with 5 or more cards in hand puts a card from their hand onto their deck.
The on play is a weaker version of forum, as you only get to draw 1 card before having to decide what to discard (it is optional at least). The main idea of the card however, is the overpay. I wanted to try making an on-gain "attack" that was dependent on overpaying. Because players could potentially gain a few of these in a turn, I wanted to keep the attacks fairly on the light side, since the card itself is a cantrip and won't junk you up like IGG might.
The way I read this is that if I overpay by $2, my opponents would both Exile a Curse and suffer the mini Ghost Ship attack (since I’ve fulfilled both overpay conditions). Is that the correct interpretation?
Town Square | Victory | $1
Worth 1% if you have no Duchies.
-
When you buy this, you may overpay for it. If you do, +1 card per $2 you overpaid (rounded down) and set aside any number of Action cards from your hand that cost equal or less than the amount you overpaid. Return to your Action phase and play the set aside cards in any order.
I totally disagree. Absent trashing attacks, your card is strictly better than Province.This looks too good relative to Province.
Let us assume an average of 4 Provinces per player. This is the same as buying Topiary Gardens 4 times while overpaying 5 each time such that there are 60 tokens on the mat. Now the Topiary Gardens are worth as many VPs as Provinces with the additional feature that you can buy further 6VP cards for $3.
It's true that buying 4 of these at $8 makes them worth the number of VP as a Province (and creates the opportunity to buy another at $3), but I disagree that this makes them better. When you buy a Province you have a guaranteed 6VP (absent it getting Swindled into a Peddler or Prince; Topiary Garden is much more vulnerable to Swindler). With this, the first 3 TGs you buy at $8 are not guaranteed to end up being worth 6VP, which makes buying one instead of a Province a potentially risky prospect. And because in 2 or 3 player games there are 4 TGs per player (and fewer games with more players), there is a non-negligible chance that you will not get the chance to buy a 5th one (or even a 4th).
Also, think about how this would happen practically. Imagine we are playing a 2 player game and you and I each have bought 3 Provinces at $8. If I hit $7, what am I going to do? Buy a Gold? A Duchy? I have an extremely strong incentive to buy a 4th TG at $7. Now, if you buy a 4th for $8, I've got a pretty big problem, but I would have had that anyway unless I was going to hit $8 on the following turn. If you don't hit $8 the turn after I buy the penultimate TG, you nevertheless have an extremely strong incentive to buy one at whatever you can spend, because if I buy that 5th one at $4, I now have 5 TGs worth 6 VP each. Thus, I think actually getting 4 TGs at $8 is going to be extremely rare.
So it will be very centralizing in nearly all Kingdoms, i.e. players will build up their engines more than in an ordinary Kingdom and then try to massively overpay for Topiary Gardens (a player overpaying less than $5 for them is not a strategic equilibrium as the other players can simply go for Provinces then)-
There is no reason to go initially for the inferior and less flexible Provinces.
This does not lead to good play. It is called alt-VP for a reason, it should be a real choice and not a virtually always mandatory strategic path.
Company Town
Action - $2+
+1 Card
+2 Actions
____________
When you buy this you may overpay. Either way, gain a card costing less than the total amount you paid for this card.
Example: If you buy it and don't overpay, gain a card costing $0 or $1 after you do. You can overpay $1P, making the total cost you paid $3P, so you can gain an Apothecary ($2P). It has the same functionality as Border Village if you overpay $4, except the village costs $2 instead of $6 so it's worse for TFB (i.e. it isn't "strictly better" than Border Village)
Ritual Attendant - $3+
Action - Attack - Fate - Doom
Receive a Boon. Each other player receives the next Hex.
----
When you buy this, you may overpay for it. For each $1 you overpaid, discard the top Boon and Hex. You may remove 1 Hex and/or 1 Boon discarded this way from their pile.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51578487291_9be8debc2f_b.jpg)to be clear, the removed boons/hexes don't get shuffled back in?QuoteRitual Attendant - $3+
Action - Attack - Fate - Doom
Receive a Boon. Each other player receives the next Hex.
----
When you buy this, you may overpay for it. For each $1 you overpaid, discard the top Boon and Hex. You may remove 1 Hex and/or 1 Boon discarded this way from their pile.
A cheap/weak attack that can be made better by thinning the Boon and Hex piles. I am not sure if it is priced correctly for the ability to get both a Boon and hand out a Hex, but the randomness early on should make it harder to maximize the effectiveness of either part. Hate buying a single Ritual Attendant to get rid of the most damaging/beneficial cards from each pile is definitely an option. I originally tried having it have a base effect of +1 Buy or +$1, but was not sure if it could stay cheap enough for the overpay ability to be used. Feedback is more than appreciated.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51578487291_9be8debc2f_b.jpg)to be clear, the removed boons/hexes don't get shuffled back in?QuoteRitual Attendant - $3+
Action - Attack - Fate - Doom
Receive a Boon. Each other player receives the next Hex.
----
When you buy this, you may overpay for it. For each $1 you overpaid, discard the top Boon and Hex. You may remove 1 Hex and/or 1 Boon discarded this way from their pile.
A cheap/weak attack that can be made better by thinning the Boon and Hex piles. I am not sure if it is priced correctly for the ability to get both a Boon and hand out a Hex, but the randomness early on should make it harder to maximize the effectiveness of either part. Hate buying a single Ritual Attendant to get rid of the most damaging/beneficial cards from each pile is definitely an option. I originally tried having it have a base effect of +1 Buy or +$1, but was not sure if it could stay cheap enough for the overpay ability to be used. Feedback is more than appreciated.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51578487291_9be8debc2f_b.jpg)QuoteRitual Attendant - $3+
Action - Attack - Fate - Doom
Receive a Boon. Each other player receives the next Hex.
----
When you buy this, you may overpay for it. For each $1 you overpaid, discard the top Boon and Hex. You may remove 1 Hex and/or 1 Boon discarded this way from their pile.
A cheap/weak attack that can be made better by thinning the Boon and Hex piles. I am not sure if it is priced correctly for the ability to get both a Boon and hand out a Hex, but the randomness early on should make it harder to maximize the effectiveness of either part. Hate buying a single Ritual Attendant to get rid of the most damaging/beneficial cards from each pile is definitely an option. I originally tried having it have a base effect of +1 Buy or +$1, but was not sure if it could stay cheap enough for the overpay ability to be used. Feedback is more than appreciated.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51578487291_9be8debc2f_b.jpg)QuoteRitual Attendant - $3+
Action - Attack - Fate - Doom
Receive a Boon. Each other player receives the next Hex.
----
When you buy this, you may overpay for it. For each $1 you overpaid, discard the top Boon and Hex. You may remove 1 Hex and/or 1 Boon discarded this way from their pile.
A cheap/weak attack that can be made better by thinning the Boon and Hex piles. I am not sure if it is priced correctly for the ability to get both a Boon and hand out a Hex, but the randomness early on should make it harder to maximize the effectiveness of either part. Hate buying a single Ritual Attendant to get rid of the most damaging/beneficial cards from each pile is definitely an option. I originally tried having it have a base effect of +1 Buy or +$1, but was not sure if it could stay cheap enough for the overpay ability to be used. Feedback is more than appreciated.
Shouldn't this fail to qualify for the same reason as The Alchemist's Bibliothecary? It's also a "pay (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/f/f7/Coin1.png/16px-Coin1.png) for 1 thing" overpay.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51578487291_9be8debc2f_b.jpg)QuoteRitual Attendant - $3+
Action - Attack - Fate - Doom
Receive a Boon. Each other player receives the next Hex.
----
When you buy this, you may overpay for it. For each $1 you overpaid, discard the top Boon and Hex. You may remove 1 Hex and/or 1 Boon discarded this way from their pile.
A cheap/weak attack that can be made better by thinning the Boon and Hex piles. I am not sure if it is priced correctly for the ability to get both a Boon and hand out a Hex, but the randomness early on should make it harder to maximize the effectiveness of either part. Hate buying a single Ritual Attendant to get rid of the most damaging/beneficial cards from each pile is definitely an option. I originally tried having it have a base effect of +1 Buy or +$1, but was not sure if it could stay cheap enough for the overpay ability to be used. Feedback is more than appreciated.
Shouldn't this fail to qualify for the same reason as The Alchemist's Bibliothecary? It's also a "pay (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/f/f7/Coin1.png/16px-Coin1.png) for 1 thing" overpay.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51578487291_9be8debc2f_b.jpg)QuoteRitual Attendant - $3+
Action - Attack - Fate - Doom
Receive a Boon. Each other player receives the next Hex.
----
When you buy this, you may overpay for it. For each $1 you overpaid, discard the top Boon and Hex. You may remove 1 Hex and/or 1 Boon discarded this way from their pile.
A cheap/weak attack that can be made better by thinning the Boon and Hex piles. I am not sure if it is priced correctly for the ability to get both a Boon and hand out a Hex, but the randomness early on should make it harder to maximize the effectiveness of either part. Hate buying a single Ritual Attendant to get rid of the most damaging/beneficial cards from each pile is definitely an option. I originally tried having it have a base effect of +1 Buy or +$1, but was not sure if it could stay cheap enough for the overpay ability to be used. Feedback is more than appreciated.
Shouldn't this fail to qualify for the same reason as The Alchemist's Bibliothecary? It's also a "pay (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/f/f7/Coin1.png/16px-Coin1.png) for 1 thing" overpay.
not quite - the things are flattened into one thing (well, one removal from each pile) regardless of how much you overpay. If someone wanted to make a "for each $1 you overpay, reveal the top card of your deck. Put one of the revealed cards onto your deck, and discard the rest", that would also qualify. The intermediate step scales at 1:1, but the end step is ∃:1.
Séance - $P+
Night/Duration
You may reveal a hand without Treasures. If you did, and you have exactly $0, +3 Cards at the start of your next turn.
When you buy this, you may overpay for it.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51578487291_9be8debc2f_b.jpg)QuoteRitual Attendant - $3+
Action - Attack - Fate - Doom
Receive a Boon. Each other player receives the next Hex.
----
When you buy this, you may overpay for it. For each $1 you overpaid, discard the top Boon and Hex. You may remove 1 Hex and/or 1 Boon discarded this way from their pile.
A cheap/weak attack that can be made better by thinning the Boon and Hex piles. I am not sure if it is priced correctly for the ability to get both a Boon and hand out a Hex, but the randomness early on should make it harder to maximize the effectiveness of either part. Hate buying a single Ritual Attendant to get rid of the most damaging/beneficial cards from each pile is definitely an option. I originally tried having it have a base effect of +1 Buy or +$1, but was not sure if it could stay cheap enough for the overpay ability to be used. Feedback is more than appreciated.
Shouldn't this fail to qualify for the same reason as The Alchemist's Bibliothecary? It's also a "pay (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/f/f7/Coin1.png/16px-Coin1.png) for 1 thing" overpay.
not quite - the things are flattened into one thing (well, one removal from each pile) regardless of how much you overpay. If someone wanted to make a "for each $1 you overpay, reveal the top card of your deck. Put one of the revealed cards onto your deck, and discard the rest", that would also qualify. The intermediate step scales at 1:1, but the end step is ∃:1.
Isn't that how Stonemason works too, though? Its intermediate step is determining the cost of the gained card, so its intermediate step scales at 1:1, but the end step is ∃:1. Or does this count as unique because overpaying with (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/7/7a/Potion.png/9px-Potion.png) does nothing, unlike Stonemason?
+$2
Discard any number of cards for +1 Coffers each.
-
When you buy this, you may overpay for it with Coffers. For each Coffers you overpaid, +1 Card at the start of your next turn.
I hope this qualifies:This doesn't really need overpay wording, and would be shorter if it just said "when you buy this, return any number of Coffers for +1 card each at the start of your next turn". It also has tracking issues, as there's nothing to remind you of the card draw, so it should either draw at the end of the turn you bought it, or gain Horses.
(https://i.imgur.com/NZ4BAzr.png)Quote from: Strongroom+$2
Discard any number of cards for +1 Coffers each.
-
When you buy this, you may overpay for it with Coffers. For each Coffers you overpaid, +1 Card at the start of your next turn.
Rules clarification: Strongroom breaks the rule about having to spend your Coffers at the start of your Buy phase. So for example if you have Merchant Guild(s) in play and bought cards before buying Strongroom, any Coffers gained from the previous buys can be used to overpay for Strongroom. However, you cannot spend Coffers for anything other than overpaying (so for instance, if you only have $3 left, you cannot spend a Coffer to be able to afford Strongroom).
The idea here is to be able to convert Coffers into draw using the overpay ability. The card itself is a terminal Silver that can be useful for hitting certain price points early in the game, since you are likely to collide it with your starting Estates. Strongroom is a stop card, so you probably don't want to buy it too often or else you could clog up your engine. Stocking up on Coffers to get the most use out of the overpay ability might be wise (or just spend those Coffers on buying good draw cards). There are good synergies with other cards that give you +Coffers, and especially with Swashbuckler.
I hope this qualifies:This doesn't really need overpay wording, and would be shorter if it just said "when you buy this, return any number of Coffers for +1 card each at the start of your next turn". It also has tracking issues, as there's nothing to remind you of the card draw, so it should either draw at the end of the turn you bought it, or gain Horses.
(https://i.imgur.com/NZ4BAzr.png)Quote from: Strongroom+$2
Discard any number of cards for +1 Coffers each.
-
When you buy this, you may overpay for it with Coffers. For each Coffers you overpaid, +1 Card at the start of your next turn.
Rules clarification: Strongroom breaks the rule about having to spend your Coffers at the start of your Buy phase. So for example if you have Merchant Guild(s) in play and bought cards before buying Strongroom, any Coffers gained from the previous buys can be used to overpay for Strongroom. However, you cannot spend Coffers for anything other than overpaying (so for instance, if you only have $3 left, you cannot spend a Coffer to be able to afford Strongroom).
The idea here is to be able to convert Coffers into draw using the overpay ability. The card itself is a terminal Silver that can be useful for hitting certain price points early in the game, since you are likely to collide it with your starting Estates. Strongroom is a stop card, so you probably don't want to buy it too often or else you could clog up your engine. Stocking up on Coffers to get the most use out of the overpay ability might be wise (or just spend those Coffers on buying good draw cards). There are good synergies with other cards that give you +Coffers, and especially with Swashbuckler.
Finally, the on-play ability is too strong, being able to gain 4 Coffers per play. Imagine a Strongroom-only play:
T1/T2: Open Strongroom/Silve.
T3/T4: Buy another Strongroom, use Strongroom to gain 4 Coffers.
T5-T7: Use both Strongrooms to now have 12 Coffers.
From here on out, discard 4 if you have Strongroom in hand, otherwise buy Province. You should have 4 Provinces by turn 12-13.
I don't normally bother with the overpay mechanic, but sure, why not. Let's try something.
(https://i.postimg.cc/LHtD1YTS/Logs-v1.png)
This is a very clever implementation, but it seems too strong because it provides so many buys and coins at little cost (just adding one mediocre card to your deck). For example, $20 and 1 buy becomes $32 and 16 buys.
The idea is there. The most natural way to tweak the power level (after playtesting, of course) is to change the cost of Logs. It could be tried at (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/7/7d/Coin5.png/16px-Coin5.png), for instance. The problem is that the initial barrier of usefulness becomes harder to cross. If you yield (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/9/98/Coin20.png) in a turn, you're already doing good and Logs merely accelerate that good deck you've got going.
I did a simulation with the following strategy:I hope this qualifies:This doesn't really need overpay wording, and would be shorter if it just said "when you buy this, return any number of Coffers for +1 card each at the start of your next turn". It also has tracking issues, as there's nothing to remind you of the card draw, so it should either draw at the end of the turn you bought it, or gain Horses.
(https://i.imgur.com/NZ4BAzr.png)Quote from: Strongroom+$2
Discard any number of cards for +1 Coffers each.
-
When you buy this, you may overpay for it with Coffers. For each Coffers you overpaid, +1 Card at the start of your next turn.
Rules clarification: Strongroom breaks the rule about having to spend your Coffers at the start of your Buy phase. So for example if you have Merchant Guild(s) in play and bought cards before buying Strongroom, any Coffers gained from the previous buys can be used to overpay for Strongroom. However, you cannot spend Coffers for anything other than overpaying (so for instance, if you only have $3 left, you cannot spend a Coffer to be able to afford Strongroom).
The idea here is to be able to convert Coffers into draw using the overpay ability. The card itself is a terminal Silver that can be useful for hitting certain price points early in the game, since you are likely to collide it with your starting Estates. Strongroom is a stop card, so you probably don't want to buy it too often or else you could clog up your engine. Stocking up on Coffers to get the most use out of the overpay ability might be wise (or just spend those Coffers on buying good draw cards). There are good synergies with other cards that give you +Coffers, and especially with Swashbuckler.
Finally, the on-play ability is too strong, being able to gain 4 Coffers per play. Imagine a Strongroom-only play:
T1/T2: Open Strongroom/Silve.
T3/T4: Buy another Strongroom, use Strongroom to gain 4 Coffers.
T5-T7: Use both Strongrooms to now have 12 Coffers.
From here on out, discard 4 if you have Strongroom in hand, otherwise buy Province. You should have 4 Provinces by turn 12-13.
You're right about this not needing the overpay mechanic. As for the other points you've raised, do you think this would sufficiently address them?
(https://i.imgur.com/uR9ktXc.png)
Suspension Bridge
$4 - Action
+2 Cards.
This turn, all cards other than Suspension Bridge cost $1 less.
-
You may overpay for this. For each $1 you overpaid, +1 Buy. If you overpay at least $3, gain a Suspension Bridge, set it aside, and play it at the start of your next turn.
Theatre
Action
Cost (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/2/2a/Coin4.png/16px-Coin4.png)
+(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/3/3d/Coin2.png/16px-Coin2.png)
This turn, when you buy a card, you may overpay for it. If you did, put on its pile as many of your Actor tokens as you overpaid in (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/6/6d/Coin.png/16px-Coin.png).
QuoteTheatre
Action
Cost (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/2/2a/Coin4.png/16px-Coin4.png)
+(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/3/3d/Coin2.png/16px-Coin2.png)
This turn, when you buy a card, you may overpay for it. If you did, put on its pile as many of your Actor tokens as you overpaid in (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/6/6d/Coin.png/16px-Coin.png).
Actor token rule:
When you play a card, you may remove your Actor token from Supply pile of the same type. If you did, instead of following the instructions of the card played, play a non-Duration card from that pile, leaving it there.
(https://i.imgur.com/DdFZle7.png)
QuoteTheatre
Action
Cost (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/2/2a/Coin4.png/16px-Coin4.png)
+(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/3/3d/Coin2.png/16px-Coin2.png)
This turn, when you buy a card, you may overpay for it. If you did, put on its pile as many of your Actor tokens as you overpaid in (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/6/6d/Coin.png/16px-Coin.png).
Actor token rule:
When you play a card, you may remove your Actor token from Supply pile of the same type. If you did, instead of following the instructions of the card played, play a non-Duration card from that pile, leaving it there.
(https://i.imgur.com/DdFZle7.png)
and, just to clarify, you're picturing the overpay for this also not stacking, like AJL828 upthread? (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20925.msg879162#msg879162)
Like
Scenario A (non-stacked overpay): I play a theater and buy a Masterpiece and overpaid $2, I choose whether I want two silvers, or to put two actors on it, or one silver and one actor.
or
Scenario B (stacked overpay): I play a theater and buy a Masterpiece and overpay $2 - I put two Actors on it and gain two silvers.
Forbidden Text - Action, $3+ cost.It would be nice and elegant if the overpay could be $3 more, but comparing Madman at default 4 Cards 2 Actions against Experiment I don't think a bundle of Forbidden Text and Madman could get away at $6. And I don't want to go to $8.
+1 Action
Draw until you have 7 cards in hand. Return this to its pile.
-
When you buy this, you may pay $4 more to gain a Madman.
I did a simulation with the following strategy:I hope this qualifies:This doesn't really need overpay wording, and would be shorter if it just said "when you buy this, return any number of Coffers for +1 card each at the start of your next turn". It also has tracking issues, as there's nothing to remind you of the card draw, so it should either draw at the end of the turn you bought it, or gain Horses.
(https://i.imgur.com/NZ4BAzr.png)Quote from: Strongroom+$2
Discard any number of cards for +1 Coffers each.
-
When you buy this, you may overpay for it with Coffers. For each Coffers you overpaid, +1 Card at the start of your next turn.
Rules clarification: Strongroom breaks the rule about having to spend your Coffers at the start of your Buy phase. So for example if you have Merchant Guild(s) in play and bought cards before buying Strongroom, any Coffers gained from the previous buys can be used to overpay for Strongroom. However, you cannot spend Coffers for anything other than overpaying (so for instance, if you only have $3 left, you cannot spend a Coffer to be able to afford Strongroom).
The idea here is to be able to convert Coffers into draw using the overpay ability. The card itself is a terminal Silver that can be useful for hitting certain price points early in the game, since you are likely to collide it with your starting Estates. Strongroom is a stop card, so you probably don't want to buy it too often or else you could clog up your engine. Stocking up on Coffers to get the most use out of the overpay ability might be wise (or just spend those Coffers on buying good draw cards). There are good synergies with other cards that give you +Coffers, and especially with Swashbuckler.
Finally, the on-play ability is too strong, being able to gain 4 Coffers per play. Imagine a Strongroom-only play:
T1/T2: Open Strongroom/Silve.
T3/T4: Buy another Strongroom, use Strongroom to gain 4 Coffers.
T5-T7: Use both Strongrooms to now have 12 Coffers.
From here on out, discard 4 if you have Strongroom in hand, otherwise buy Province. You should have 4 Provinces by turn 12-13.
You're right about this not needing the overpay mechanic. As for the other points you've raised, do you think this would sufficiently address them?
(https://i.imgur.com/uR9ktXc.png)
- buy province if you can (use coffers)
- buy stronghold if you can (don't use coffers)
- buy silver if you can (don't use coffers)
On half of the games, You get 4 provinces by turn 13, and by 15 on 90%
At $5, the average is 15 turns
New submission
Please let me know if this doesn't qualify, spineflu. The only "novelty" here is that you can only overpay for Carnival if you have at least one other copy in play.
(https://i.imgur.com/wuESdx8.png)
New submission
Please let me know if this doesn't qualify, spineflu. The only "novelty" here is that you can only overpay for Carnival if you have at least one other copy in play.
(https://i.imgur.com/wuESdx8.png)
How do (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/9/92/VP.png/16px-VP.png) get added to the pile? To me, this just looks like Market for $3.
New submission
Please let me know if this doesn't qualify, spineflu. The only "novelty" here is that you can only overpay for Carnival if you have at least one other copy in play.
(https://i.imgur.com/wuESdx8.png)
I totally disagree. Absent trashing attacks, your card is strictly better than Province.This looks too good relative to Province.
Let us assume an average of 4 Provinces per player. This is the same as buying Topiary Gardens 4 times while overpaying 5 each time such that there are 60 tokens on the mat. Now the Topiary Gardens are worth as many VPs as Provinces with the additional feature that you can buy further 6VP cards for $3.
It's true that buying 4 of these at $8 makes them worth the number of VP as a Province (and creates the opportunity to buy another at $3), but I disagree that this makes them better. When you buy a Province you have a guaranteed 6VP (absent it getting Swindled into a Peddler or Prince; Topiary Garden is much more vulnerable to Swindler). With this, the first 3 TGs you buy at $8 are not guaranteed to end up being worth 6VP, which makes buying one instead of a Province a potentially risky prospect. And because in 2 or 3 player games there are 4 TGs per player (and fewer games with more players), there is a non-negligible chance that you will not get the chance to buy a 5th one (or even a 4th).
Also, think about how this would happen practically. Imagine we are playing a 2 player game and you and I each have bought 3 Provinces at $8. If I hit $7, what am I going to do? Buy a Gold? A Duchy? I have an extremely strong incentive to buy a 4th TG at $7. Now, if you buy a 4th for $8, I've got a pretty big problem, but I would have had that anyway unless I was going to hit $8 on the following turn. If you don't hit $8 the turn after I buy the penultimate TG, you nevertheless have an extremely strong incentive to buy one at whatever you can spend, because if I buy that 5th one at $4, I now have 5 TGs worth 6 VP each. Thus, I think actually getting 4 TGs at $8 is going to be extremely rare.
So it will be very centralizing in nearly all Kingdoms, i.e. players will build up their engines more than in an ordinary Kingdom and then try to massively overpay for Topiary Gardens (a player overpaying less than $5 for them is not a strategic equilibrium as the other players can simply go for Provinces then)-
There is no reason to go initially for the inferior and less flexible Provinces.
This does not lead to good play. It is called alt-VP for a reason, it should be a real choice and not a virtually always mandatory strategic path.
You will also need a lot of tokens, won't be better to adjust the numbers to gain less tokens when overpaying?
(https://i.imgur.com/7nb0lx4h.png) | Quote from: Scoundrel SCOUNDREL |
Does this qualify?
(https://i.imgur.com/WSqKOEo.png)
It's a lost city while you have tokens, otherwise it's a necropolis.
New submission
Please let me know if this doesn't qualify, spineflu. The only "novelty" here is that you can only overpay for Carnival if you have at least one other copy in play.
(https://i.imgur.com/wuESdx8.png)
yeah, putting a barrier to entry like "you can only overpay when this is in play" or "overpay by exactly the amount of these in play" (side note: is that what this is saying? If I have, say, three in play, can I overpay by $1 to only snag one vp?) qualifies
An "online only" card (I think this also does not qualify, but just for fun):
(https://i.imgur.com/AeY6V1E.png)
Inspired by Sage, and strictly better unless cost reduction.
When you buy this, you may overpay for it. This copy costs the amount you overpaid.
I don't really get this prompt.like in terms of mechanics, or in terms of why you'd want to impose the restrictions?
I think the overpay function should say:It's true that all have the "this costs [...]", but they aren't triggered since the "when" condition only applies to the one you are buying. (Like the when trash abilities of Fortress or Hunting Grounds)QuoteWhen you buy this, you may overpay for it. This copy costs the amount you overpaid.Otherwise, every copy of the card in the game changes (since they all have that language), like Wayfarer.
Endowment - Treasure - $2+
If you have at least 1 Coffers on your Coffers mat, +$2.
-
You may overpay for this. For each $1 you overpaid, trash a Copper from your hand. For each Copper you trashed, +1 Coffers.
Like, I'm not understanding the logic behind what's considered novel and what's not. There are several here that are still "for each $1 you overpaid" and I just don't get it.I don't really get this prompt.like in terms of mechanics, or in terms of why you'd want to impose the restrictions?
Like, I'm not understanding the logic behind what's considered novel and what's not. There are several here that are still "for each $1 you overpaid" and I just don't get it.I don't really get this prompt.like in terms of mechanics, or in terms of why you'd want to impose the restrictions?
Isolated Village • $4+ • Action • author: JW
+1 Card
+2 Actions
You may spend a Villager to trash a card from your hand.
-
When you buy this, +1 Villager and you may overpay for it. If you do, for each $1 you overpaid, +1 Villager, to a maximum of 4. If you don't, each other player gets +1 Villager.
Scoundrel • $5+ • Action • author: emtzalex$10 to turn Scoundrels into Smithy-Cultists. Or $7 to turn them into collision-dependent superlabs if there's a $2 cantrip on the board. Cultists are quality in the slogs they themselves cause - I can't imagine how this'd wreck shop in a game with no junk, maybe a little +Buy action.
+3 Cards
You may play from your hand an Action card from the pile with your Cur token on it.
-
When you buy this, you may overpay for it. If you did, gain an Action card costing the amount you overpaid and move your Cur token to its pile.
Developing Village • $2+ • Action(? - inferred/not specified) • author: lompeluiten
+2 Actions
-
When you buy this, you may overpay for it. If you did, return to your Action phase and +1 Action. For each $1 you overpaid, draw a card.
Totem • $4 • Action • author: xyz123A card that unlocks overpay on other stuff (but doesn't do much on its own) is very cool. I'm not sure this needs the non-Victory restriction, if you could find a way to lock out provinces + colonies (or just live with the strength). I really like this, and I think you did a fine job pricing it. A design like this might be a better way of doing Potion-cost cards - "While this is in play, you may buy potion-cost cards". Certainly gets in the way less than a Potion.
+1 Card
+1 Action
-
While this is in play, when you buy a non-Victory card, you may overpay $1 for every $2 it costs (round up). If you do, gain a copy of it.
Uproar • $4+ • Action • author: AJL828That on-play is weaker than forum, but not much. I wish the overpay-attack was a little better integrated into the card. This might be a good candidate for mixing with Annie's Curse Tokens/(https://cdn-icons-png.flaticon.com/512/92/92034.png) (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20918.0) Themewise I'm not sure what Coven-y cursing and a minor haunting have to do with an uproar.
+1 Card
+1 Action
You may discard 2 cards for +2 Cards
-
When you buy this, you may overpay for it. If you overpaid at least $1, each other player Exiles a Curse. If you overpaid at least $2, each other player with 5 or more cards in hand puts a card from their hand onto their deck.
Town Square • $1+ • Victory • author: anordinaryman
Worth 1% if you have no Duchies.
-
When you buy this, you may overpay for it. If you do, +1 Card per $2 you overpaid (rounded down) and set aside any number of Action cards from your hand that cost equal or less than the amount you overpaid. Return to your Action phase and play the set aside cards in any order.
Token • $2+ • Action • author: NoMoreFunI like the idea of a pile with overpay not really emptying (or, at least, refilling), keeping the overpay in play as a strategy for the duration of the game, rather than running out like Stonemasons tend to. I also really like the subtlety of the penalty here when you don't overpay.
+$3
+1 Buy
Return this to the supply.
-
When you buy this you may overpay. Either way, gain a card costing less than the total amount you paid for this card.
Ritual Attendant • $3+ • Action - Attack - Fate - Doom • author: Xen3kI really like the idea of thinning the boons/hexes. You could actually thin out the entire Boons pile if this is in a game with Druid, but maybe that's a feature rather than a bug. I'm not sure I like how this can remove both a Boon and a Hex - I think it should force specialization, something like "For each $1 you overpaid, reveal the top Boon or Hex. Trash one of the revealed Boons or Hexes and discard the rest." Basically my qualm is with the "and/or" - commit to the or, imo. Having it trash it, which unconventional, prevents the question of "oh it's removed from the game, like, for the rest of the game?" and there's nothing really that touches a Boon/Hex in the trash, so it's safe to do.
Receive a Boon. Each other player receives the next Hex.
----
When you buy this, you may overpay for it. For each $1 you overpaid, discard the top Boon and Hex. You may remove 1 Hex and/or 1 Boon discarded this way from their pile.
Séance • ^+ • Night - Duration • author: faust
You may reveal a hand without Treasures. If you did, and you have exactly $0, +3 Cards at the start of your next turn.
-
When you buy this, you may overpay for it.
Logs • $4+ • Action • author: X-tra
+1 Buy
+$2
This turn, you can't buy Logs.
-
When you buy this, you may overpay for it. For each $1 you overpaid, play this.
Suspension Bridge • $4+ • Action • author: LibraryAdventurer
+2 Cards.
This turn, all cards other than Suspension Bridge cost $1 less.
-
You may overpay for this. For each $1 you overpaid, +1 Buy. If you overpay at least $3, gain a Suspension Bridge, set it aside, and play it at the start of your next turn.
Theatre • $4 • Action • author: Gardoomalion
+$2
This turn, when you buy a card, you may overpay for it. If you did, put on its pile as many of your Actor tokens as you overpaid in $
Actor tokens
When you have Actor tokens on a pile, when you play a card with the same types as that pile, you may remove an Actor token to play a non-Duration card from that pile instead, leaving it there.
Forbidden Text • $3+ • Action • author: AquilaNot exactly the standard overpay text but I think, given the fixed overpay amount, that it's a pretty good way of doing it. Succinct.
+1 Action
Draw until you have 7 cards in hand. Return this to its pile.
-
When you buy this, you may pay $4 more to gain a Madman.
Carnival • $3+ • Action - Gathering • author: Timinou
+1 Card
+1 Action
If there are no % on the Carnival Supply pile, +1 Buy and +$1. Add +1% to the Supply pile.
-
When you buy this, you may overpay. For each $1 you overpay, up to the number of Carnivals you have in play, take 1% from this Supply pile.
Guru • $0+ • Action • author: Freddy10I know you entered this just for fun, but I tweaked the wording a little to make it work in paper - you track the total amount you've overpaid with like, player-colored d20 trackers (such as those used in mtg) (https://www.amazon.com/Magic-Gathering-Spindown-Set-Five/dp/B00U2V9DBO/ref=asc_df_B00U2V9DBO/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312133084246&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=10774723428562009365&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9005661&hvtargid=pla-598490175284&psc=1) or even coin tokens. I think that's a better suggestion than having individual cards with different prices, sort of a general rule of dominion card design that cards with the same name are identical (and the impetus for the 2019 errata around Inheritance). I think it's going to suffer from the same problem as Sage - once you start greening, it hits green.
+1 Action
Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal one that does not cost less than this. Put that card into your hand and discard the rest.
-
When you buy this, you may overpay for it. On your turns, this costs the total amount you've overpaid for Gurus.
Seller • $4+ • Action • author: 4est
If you have the Deed, +1 Card, +1 Action, and +$1; Otherwise, +1 Buy and +$2.
-
When you buy this, you may overpay for it. If you overpaid (in $) more than the number of Coin tokens on the Deed, take the Deed.
Deed • ArtifactI like the concept on this. I don't love the soft terminality - the times when this is a contested pile and one person ends up with a deck full of wood cutters while the other ends up with a deck full of peddlers? That's gonna be a feels bad moment.
When scoring, +5%
-
When you take this, add Coin tokens on this to match the amount (in $) you overpaid.
Endowment • $2+ • Treasure • author: scolapasta
If you have at least 1 Coffers on your Coffers mat, +$2.
-
You may overpay for this. For each $1 you overpaid, trash a Copper from your hand. For each Copper you trashed, +1 Coffers.
QuoteScoundrel • $5+ • Action • author: emtzalex$10 to turn Scoundrels into Smithy-Cultists. Or $7 to turn them into collision-dependent superlabs if there's a $2 cantrip on the board. Cultists are quality in the slogs they themselves cause - I can't imagine how this'd wreck shop in a game with no junk, maybe a little +Buy action.
+3 Cards
You may play from your hand an Action card from the pile with your Cur token on it.
-
When you buy this, you may overpay for it. If you did, gain an Action card costing the amount you overpaid and move your Cur token to its pile.
Themewise, I'm not seeing the connection to scoundrel-y-ness? I'd expect it to be something like a petty attack - oracle-esque or maybe cutpurse, which, at $5 is not great.
QuoteScoundrel • $5+ • Action • author: emtzalex$10 to turn Scoundrels into Smithy-Cultists. Or $7 to turn them into collision-dependent superlabs if there's a $2 cantrip on the board. Cultists are quality in the slogs they themselves cause - I can't imagine how this'd wreck shop in a game with no junk, maybe a little +Buy action.
+3 Cards
You may play from your hand an Action card from the pile with your Cur token on it.
-
When you buy this, you may overpay for it. If you did, gain an Action card costing the amount you overpaid and move your Cur token to its pile.
Themewise, I'm not seeing the connection to scoundrel-y-ness? I'd expect it to be something like a petty attack - oracle-esque or maybe cutpurse, which, at $5 is not great.
Thanks for the feedback/judging. In terms of the theme, when I made it I thought I vaguely remembered some olde timey quotation that was something like "you can tell a scoundrel from the company he keeps" or not to trust someone who keeps the company of a scoundrel. Having now searched the interwebs, this does not seem to actually exist.
In terms of substance, I am wondering whether I wonder if the price point is too high (it's probably no accident that all of the official Overpay cards cost $2-$4). Absent a $2 cantrip or discounting (there is some potential for this to be quite wicked with Highway), you can only trigger this when you hit $8. While there could be some analogy there to Pathfinding, I tend to think of that as a somewhat niche landscape that is unplayable in a non-negligible portion of games. And while that might be acceptable with landscapes (see Tomb), I do feel like it is less so for one of the 10 Kingdom cards. I am now thinking it maybe should have had a $3+ cost and given +2 Cards (and maybe prohibited putting the token on itself).
The Winner is scolapasta's EndowmentQuoteEndowment • $2+ • Treasure • author: scolapasta
If you have at least 1 Coffers on your Coffers mat, +$2.
-
You may overpay for this. For each $1 you overpaid, trash a Copper from your hand. For each Copper you trashed, +1 Coffers.
This is a really clever alt-Silver. I think, had this been released in a pre-Delve / pre-Stockpile world, there'd be some balking at the price. I was thinking this imbalanced the opening too hard, but it's actually just really good and clever and subtle. This might be too much in Swashbuckler games, but maybe that's fine.
I am now thinking it maybe should have had a $3+ cost and given +2 Cards (and maybe prohibited putting the token on itself).
yeah that would've been better received; while the pathfinding-on-a-lab comparison kinda works, that requires both being in the kingdom to pull off (and doesn't give you a copy of the card the turn you enable it)- this, as long as there was some sort of village/cantrip at $3 or less, always had it at $8, and at $10 could always chain on itself.
(https://i.imgur.com/v2xfk9wh.png) | Quote from: Tutor TUTOR |
(https://i.imgur.com/d2XaPqch.png) | Quote from: Volkhv VOLKHV |
(https://i.imgur.com/PbHqaGvh.png) | Quote from: Glass Merchant GLASS MERCHANT |
(https://i.imgur.com/yPr6tgHh.png) | Quote from: Council of Thieves COUNCIL OF THIEVES |