Dominion Strategy Forum
Archive => Archive => Dominion World Masters => Topic started by: theory on March 28, 2012, 05:27:24 pm
-
http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/784156/dominion-tournament-official-regional-qualifier
This is a qualifier for the tournament system that eventually feeds into the World Dominion Championships.
Here is the official flyer and registration.
2012 Official Dominion Tournament Qualifier
Where: MichiCon @Oakland University (in the Oakland Center)
When: Saturday June 23nd, 2012 @12pm
Website: www.metrodetroitgamers.wordpress.com
Love Playing Dominion??? Want to test your skills???
Come play with the best in the Metro Detroit Area.
Free Promos for all players!!!
Winner receives a Dominion Game Product, a Gas Card and hotel arrangements paid for by Rio Grande Games to the Dominion US Finals in Chicago in July. (The World Finals will be in August this year at GenCon in Indianapolis).
How do I register???
1. To ensure a place in the tournament, register by sending an email to Shiloh Christie at shilohc888@sbcglobal.net or shilohc888@gmail.com including your first and last name indicating that you are coming to the tournament. Your e-mail will not be used for any other purpose than to inform you about tournament details and/or changes. There are a maximum of 64 seats available so register soon.
2. Show up at MichiCon on Friday night or Saturday before 11:30am and pay the MichCon entry fee ($6 for Friday night, $12 for Saturday only or $15 for both days). Oakland University students are free with ID card. The event fee for the Dominion tournament is an additional $5 payable at MichiCon.
3. Show up by 11:30am on Saturday June 23nd and sign in.
Conditions/Rules
1. All players will play 5 preliminary rounds involving 3 or 4 player-type games only.
2. Cards from Dominion, Intrigue, Seaside, Prosperity, Hinterlands and Cornucopia will be available for play. Alchemy will NOT be played during this tournament. Promo cards may be played in Single Elimination rounds only.
3. Rounds will last no longer than 40 minutes. A 5 minute warning will be given along with a “last turn” call at the around at that time as well. All 5 rounds will run from approximately 12-4pm with Single Elimination rounds lasting until about 6pm.
4. The top ½ of players will advance to the single elimination semi-finals (or quarter-finals depending on how many register). Total Wins will determine who advances to single elimination rounds. If there is a tie in any game, both players (or more) will be credited for the win. If there is a tie for advancement to single elimination, both tied players will advance.
5. Players must act in a respectful manner during the tournament. Etiquette will be explained by e-mail and at the tournament. Most of all- have fun!!!
***Below are all the possible sets that will used for the Pre-lim rounds 1-5. You can practice with these sets from now until tournament day. Single Elimination round sets will be chosen on Tournament Day. Good luck!!!
I highly advise players to study up on their cards and strategy on www.dominionstrategy.com Some of the best players (and the creator Donald X) chat there and play on dominion.isotropic.org Don’t be a fool- come with your “A” game!!!
16 Sets to be used for Pre-lim rounds 1-5 (SE rounds will be chosen randomly at the tourny)
1. Dominion- Cellar, Chapel, Feast, Gardens, Laboratory, Smithy, Thief, Village, Workshop, Witch
2. Dominion- Adventurer, Council Room, Festival, Market, Militia, Mine, Moat, Remodel, Spy, Throne Room
3. Intrigue- Baron, Bridge, Duke, Great Hall, Ironworks, Masquerade, Nobles, Pawn, Torturer, Upgrade
4. Intrigue- Conspirator, Courtyard, Mining Village, Minion, Saboteur, Secret Chamber, Steward, Swindler, Trading Post, Tribute
5. Seaside- Bazaar, Caravan, Embargo, Haven, Island, Lookout, Pirate Ship, Smugglers, Treasury, Wharf
6. Seaside- Ambassador, Fishing Village, Lighthouse, Merchant Ship, Outpost, Pearl Diver, Salvager, Tactician, Treasure Map, Warehouse
7. Prosperity- Bank, Contraband, Expand, Goons, Rabble, Royal Seal, Mint, Monument, Watchtower, Worker’s Village
8. Prosperity- Bishop, City, Forge, Grand Market, Hoard, King’s Court, Peddler, Tailsman, Trade Route, Vault
9. Hinterlands- Cartographer, Crossroads, Farmland, Inn, Jack of All Trades, Mandarin, Nomad Camp, Oasis, Oracle, Tunnel
10. Hinterlands- Border Village, Cache, Fool’s Gold, Haggler, Highway, Ill-Gotten Gains, Margrave, Scheme, Spice Merchant, Trader
11. Cornucopia- Fairgrounds, Farming Village, Hamlet, Horn of Plenty, Horse Traders, Hunting Party, Jester, Managerie, Remake, Tournament
12. Dominion/Intrigue- Baron, Cellar, Festival, Library, Masquerade, Minion, Nobles, Pawn, Steward, Witch
13. Dominion/Intrigue- Bridge, Mining Village, Remodel, Saboteur, Secret Chamber, Spy, Swindler, Thief, Throne Room, Torturer
14. Dominion/Intrigue- Bureaucrat, Chancellor, Council Room, Courtyard, Mine, Militia, Minion, Nobles, Steward, Torturer
15. Dominion/Prosperity- Bank, Grand Market, Mint, Royal Seal, Venture, Adventurer, Laboratory, Mine, Moneylender, Spy
16. Dominion/Prosperity- Contraband, Expand, Forge, King’s Court, Vault, Bridge, Coppersmith, Swindler, Tribute, Wishing Well
PS: We're going to host a qualifier as well, but the details are still murky. Suffice to say that it will be online (of course), it will only be for Americans (sorry! we tried really hard to go international but we were turned down), and it will be played on the new server, whenever that comes out...
-
How do non-Americans qualify for the World Dominion Championships?
-
PS: We're going to host a qualifier as well, but the details are still murky. Suffice to say that it will be online (of course), it will only be for Americans (sorry! we tried really hard to go international but we were turned down), and it will be played on the new server, whenever that comes out...
So it'll be a qualifier for the 2014 Championships then?
-
You have to be kidding me. I live 45 minutes from Oakland U. Well, guess I know what I'm doing on June 23!
-
You have to be kidding me. I live 45 minutes from Oakland U. Well, guess I know what I'm doing on June 23!
Whoa, which direction?
Assuming I have nothing else going on, I'll be driving up from the south... perhaps I'll see you there!
-
You have to be kidding me. I live 45 minutes from Oakland U. Well, guess I know what I'm doing on June 23!
Whoa, which direction?
Assuming I have nothing else going on, I'll be driving up from the south... perhaps I'll see you there!
Cool! I live just east of Detroit, so... from the east.
Pretty randomly crazy that this qualifier would be held at Oakland U.
-
How do non-Americans qualify for the World Dominion Championships?
They don't. It's called the World Dominion Championships for a reason! (like the World Series)
-
How do non-Americans qualify for the World Dominion Championships?
I am told that there will be other regional qualifiers in other countries. After all, last year was as international as you could get (1 finalist per country).
-
Oh yes, these tournaments will also all be 4-player. (Maybe ours will be 3p. We'll see.)
-
How do non-Americans qualify for the World Dominion Championships?
I think you could qualify to perform good on the Euro Championship, held at Essen (spiel)
-
Wow! I live a half hour from Oakland U... that's convenient. ;D
-
How do non-Americans qualify for the World Dominion Championships?
I think you could qualify to perform good on the Euro Championship, held at Essen (spiel)
There is an EC in Essen?
Last year, there was the German championship and then the world championship. In Germany there are several qualifying tournaments (20, as a matter of fact (incl one online on BSW); we are not used to such distances as (most of) you are in the US ;-)). I also know there are national championships in the Netherlands (which Geronimoo summarised in another thread) and Sweden (Lekkit and Fabian mentioning it). But they are 4pl here, as well.
-
How do non-Americans qualify for the World Dominion Championships?
I think you could qualify to perform good on the Euro Championship, held at Essen (spiel)
There is an EC in Essen?
Last year, there was the German championship and then the world championship. In Germany there are several qualifying tournaments (20, as a matter of fact (incl one online on BSW); we are not used to such distances as (most of) you are in the US ;-)). I also know there are national championships in the Netherlands (which Geronimoo summarised in another thread) and Sweden (Lekkit and Fabian mentioning it). But they are 4pl here, as well.
Yeah, you're right. That was the world championship. Not a EC in Essen
-
PS: We're going to host a qualifier as well, but the details are still murky. Suffice to say that it will be online (of course), it will only be for Americans (sorry! we tried really hard to go international but we were turned down), and it will be played on the new server, whenever that comes out...
So it'll be a qualifier for the 2014 Championships then?
Hey, let's be fair and realistic here. It'll be 2016, at least ;)
-
Wow! I live a half hour from Oakland U... that's convenient. ;D
Apparently there are quite a few of us within an hour's drive of Detroit. Which direction are you? I am in Toledo, and apparent RobZ is from the snooty east suburbs. :p
-
Perhaps this tourney is another sign that I need to go to U of M for grad school. :)
-
Perhaps this tourney is another sign that I need to go to U of M for grad school. :)
Depends on what you're going to grad school for.
-
Wow! I live a half hour from Oakland U... that's convenient. ;D
Apparently there are quite a few of us within an hour's drive of Detroit. Which direction are you? I am in Toledo, and apparent RobZ is from the snooty east suburbs. :p
I'm 15 miles north of Detroit and 15 miles east of Oakland U. I joked a while back on BGG that I'd try and get an official qualifier in my basement, but now I won't have to since this one is literally in my backyard!
-
Perhaps this tourney is another sign that I need to go to U of M for grad school. :)
Depends on what you're going to grad school for.
I'm going for chemistry. And I've just made the decision for U of M, so I will very likely see many of you at the tourney.
-
I live a few miles East of Detroit, nearby Windsor!
-
Hello everyone, I'm the GM for the tournament at Oakland University. It is an official qualifier. One of the people here- I think an administrator contacted me, asked me to join so here I am!!! Any questions please ask here, email or PM- whatever. I gave the person who contacted me (admin I think) permission to post the 3pg. info document on this website so all could see. I'm getting high interest and great response so far. Jay from Rio Grande is really helping out bigtime. I'm very impressed with him and RioGrandeGames. This WILL be a great tournament. So far we will hold 64 seats- if we exceed that- I'll try to work to get more space. Also, I'm working on more giveaways. RioGrande has already helped some in this area and will give more if the tournament gets bigger- which it looks like it will. You will not want to miss this if you are a big Dominion player near the Detroit Metro Area.
Any questions- Ask away. :)
-
Flyer/Document is too big to attach- can and admin help me post this???
Thanks
The Questioneer
-
I am definitely in! What can I do to reserve a space?
-
As of right now you can e-mail me and I can send you the flyer/document until they post it here on the site. It gives all the info and how to register. Its very simple.
-
I emailed you to get the flyer to upload :) It wasn't me or rrenaud that contacted you, so whoever did on our behalf, thanks!
-
Hello everyone, I'm the GM for the tournament at Oakland University. It is an official qualifier. One of the people here- I think an administrator contacted me, asked me to join so here I am!!! Any questions please ask here, email or PM- whatever. I gave the person who contacted me (admin I think) permission to post the 3pg. info document on this website so all could see.
That would have been me :) But as you see, I'm not an admin :)
-
If the tournament gets much bigger than 64 players is there a possibility of sending two players to the US finals?
-
Ok just emailed the "bigs" at the forum the document/flyer to post - should be up soon. :)
-
If the tournament gets much bigger than 64 players is there a possibility of sending two players to the US finals?
Good question. Once we get at least 50 or so registered I'll ask Jay at RioGrande Games what he thinks. I'll push for it. This seems like a reasonable request. We'll see.
-
Wow. I'm also in the Detroit area. I own the entire game and would love to get a local group going; my Magic friends aren't all that keen on the game as I am.
-
Hello everyone, I'm the GM for the tournament at Oakland University. It is an official qualifier. One of the people here- I think an administrator contacted me, asked me to join so here I am!!! Any questions please ask here, email or PM- whatever. I gave the person who contacted me (admin I think) permission to post the 3pg. info document on this website so all could see.
That would have been me :) But as you see, I'm not an admin :)
Thank you very much- this is quite a forum!!! :)
-
I emailed you to get the flyer to upload :) It wasn't me or rrenaud that contacted you, so whoever did on our behalf, thanks!
Thanks to the both of you!! :)
-
Wow. I'm also in the Detroit area. I own the entire game and would love to get a local group going; my Magic friends aren't all that keen on the game as I am.
Yeah Magic isn't my thing. Me, my wife and our friends always played Catan until we tried Dominion a year ago.
Since then we have taught dozens of our friends to play- they instantly get hooked. Nobody has rejected it yet. For us, it has replace Catan.
I think what makes this game great is that non-gamers want to play it and find it addictive, as I have experienced when showing the game to others.
Easy to learn, yet hard to master = instant classic
For those interested I'm a big "Axis and Allies Global 1940" boardgamer as well. You can find me on www.axisandallies.org/forums by the same user name. I'm also an educator-math, chess coach and avid backgammon player. Other games I like: Risk, Ikusa, Railways of the World and all Catan versions. My favorite of course by far is Dominion.
Very cool forum...now I know where I can sharpen up my game. ;)
Razz...PM where you live, maybe I can hook you up with our group.
-
Uploaded the flyer in the first post. I hope you don't mind, but I removed the Dominion picture from the flyer. It made the file 18KB instead of 2000+KB.
(I also fixed your avatar.)
A couple of suggestions:
* Using Total Victory Points leads to some bad incentives, for a lot of reasons. What about just pure ranks, i.e., 1, 2, 3, 4?
* The flyer lists all the potential sets that may be used in the tournament. This seems like something that the forum could easily work through to determine the optimal strategy...
-
Uploaded the flyer in the first post. I hope you don't mind, but I removed the Dominion picture from the flyer. It made the file 18KB instead of 2000+KB.
(I also fixed your avatar.)
A couple of suggestions:
* Using Total Victory Points leads to some bad incentives, for a lot of reasons. What about just pure ranks, i.e., 1, 2, 3, 4?
* The flyer lists all the potential sets that may be used in the tournament. This seems like something that the forum could easily work through to determine the optimal strategy...
1. Thanks for the avatar fix and yes that's OK for cutting out the pic on the flyer- no needed of course.
2. As for the Total Victory Points- that is only a tie breaker if needed. Which I don't see happening. Advancment WILL be by rank first. That rank is determined by Total Wins- if needed to break any ties in the ranking then Total Victory Points will be used. For example, after 5 rounds of pre-lims with 32 players, the top 16 will advance to SE rounds. If there is a tie for the 16th placement then we will determine who goes by Total Victory Points.
As far as individual games played in the Pre-lims, if in a 3 or 4 players game if there is a tie- both players will get credited for the win. In SE rounds though- this can't happan so again we will have to go back to a Total Victory Points count to determine who advances. So as you can see this will rarely happen, if at all.
I'm sorry this wasn't clear enough in the flyer. Does it sound unclear to anyone else?? If it is, I'll go change it. If you are registered, I will have your e-mail and you will get the updated flyer directly.
BTW this system is almost what they use for the US Finals and Worlds, so I wanted to keep in line with what they do. I say almost b/c they don't use the Vicotry Point tie-breaker. I asked Jay what they used for ties in order to advance in single-elimination rounds in the US Finals and Worlds. He said they flip a coin!!! Ouch!!! That's rough, that's why I put the Victory Point tie-breaker in for our tournament- softens the blow a bit.
3. The sets being used for the Pre-lims were determined based on how many games I received from RioGrande to use. I wish I could do well-mixed sets (from 3 or more expansions), but because of the limited games we have (4 Base, 4 Intrigue, 1 Seaside, 1 Prosperity, 1 Hinterlands, 1 Cornucopia), we can't do that. If we get more than 64players then I will have to ask RioGrandeGames for more game.
4. There are 2 or 3 of the listed sets that I am concerned about that might take longer to play- past the 40-45min time limits (I can be flexible 5 extra min here if the game if close to being done.) If I have to cut it off then I will need to use Victory Points when time is up to detemine winner(s) for those games.
5. As far as the forum working through these sets for the optimal strategy, what would be wrong with that if everyone has access to the same forum, which I am now telling others about??? All players are free to practice these sets as many times as possible. Use the forums, whatever. Everyone is on the same footing either way. Also, I would think that this would make rounds faster, which is more desirable for all I think. However, only 1/2 of the players will make it to the SE rounds. At that point, sets will be randomized via a randomizer. Promos may be used and you may see 3-5 expansions in each randomization b/c by reducing the number of players in SE, we will have the ability to use all the left-over expansions to make more diverse sets at that time.
What do you guys think about these issues??? I put out the announcement for this tourny early for a reason- so that we can iron out any glitches, this being our first major Dominion tourny in the area.
-
The problem with using total points at all (even if it is unlikely to happen).
Is that it changes player behaviour.
I.e, In a Goons game, I'm way ahead and can end the game.
Or I can spend 5 minutes scoring another 50 points and not end the game just in case I need the tie breaker later.
Or worse collusion, all players agree to not end the game yet in a gardens game, just keep buying copper to boost all the players scores.
When you run out of time, are you going to make it so that all players have the same number of turns?
Also being flexible on time limits is bad I think.
If in the first round someone doesn't win because you impose the time limit.
Then next round you give an extra 5 minutes and it hurts them again, they are not going to be happy.
-
Ah...I see- good feedback.
1. If you are playing a Goons type game and you are ahead and can end the game, but you want to rack up VPoints, then by all means do what you like. IMHO you deserve to do this if you are in the lead.
2. However, with the time limit, you have convinced me to keep this a strict 40min limit. I will give a 5min warning at the 35min mark and YES when time is up you must complete a round (all players have the same number of turns).
3. This is probably why they didn't use Victory Point as tie-breakers in the US Finals and the Worlds. But would you like to do what they did for tie-breakers and flip a coin??? Which is worse??? Pick your poison. It doen't matter to me- I'm flexible either way. Eliminating the VPoint tie-breaker is easier for me. We can just do Total Wins and I'll just bring a coin for the tie-breakers ;) If people lose ties by a coin flip then people won't be happy either. What do you guys think???
-
Whatt!! how did I not know about this? hope theres still spots open ;D
-
5. As far as the forum working through these sets for the optimal strategy, what would be wrong with that if everyone has access to the same forum, which I am now telling others about???
Nothing at all :D :D :D
-
Ah...I see- good feedback.
1. If you are playing a Goons type game and you are ahead and can end the game, but you want to rack up VPoints, then by all means do what you like. IMHO you deserve to do this if you are in the lead.
2. However, with the time limit, you have convinced me to keep this a strict 40min limit. I will give a 5min warning at the 35min mark and YES when time is up you must complete a round (all players have the same number of turns).
3. This is probably why they didn't use Victory Point as tie-breakers in the US Finals and the Worlds. But would you like to do what they did for tie-breakers and flip a coin??? Which is worse??? Pick your poison. It doen't matter to me- I'm flexible either way. Eliminating the VPoint tie-breaker is easier for me. We can just do Total Wins and I'll just bring a coin for the tie-breakers ;) If people lose ties by a coin flip then people won't be happy either. What do you guys think???
VP as a tiebreaker is worse than a coin flip. I am not kidding here. Just about anything is better than using total VPs...
-
Yeah, I think you are right Wanderer, and I see the reasons clearly now. This is why Jay and Donald X don't do this at the US Finals and Worlds.
After some brainstorming, I have a way to make everyone happy. We will do just straight up wins and ranking by win totals. If there are any ties in individual games both will be credited for the win. If there is a tie in for SE round placement or advancemnt then both will advance. I can make this work. I can split some games into 3 player games if I need to which is what they do at the US Finals and Worlds. No coin flips and all ties get wins and advancement. There- that was simple. I'll change that on the flyer today or tommorrow. Thanks for your help on this.
Sound good??? I think that will work and everyone will be happy. Especially me b/c that's one less thing to keep track of.
-
That sounds good.
Although I agree that technically VP as a tiebreaker is worse than a coin flip, perception matters as well.
-
5. As far as the forum working through these sets for the optimal strategy, what would be wrong with that if everyone has access to the same forum, which I am now telling others about???
Nothing at all :D :D :D
More forumites! We shall take over the Dominion World!!
-
Whatt!! how did I not know about this? hope theres still spots open ;D
There is but don't waste time- I'm getting 1-2 registrations a day now. :)
-
That sounds good.
Although I agree that technically VP as a tiebreaker is worse than a coin flip, perception matters as well.
Just sent the new flyer to you guys and everyone else your registered and metrogamers- the ones holding the con. Please put the new one up ASAP. Thanks- sorry for the inconvience. Everything should be all set now- ready to rock!
This is gonna be awesome tourny- I wish I could play in it!!! ;D
-
Update- Got about 20 signed up so far. Our goal is to get at least 32players, however, we have room for 64.
Registration has slowed down a bit but I'm sure it will pick up as we get closer to the date. Still plenty of room! :)
-
Hello all,
Hope everyone had a relaxing Memorial Day weekend,
I just wanted to give everyone an update. All is going well as far as preparations. There are about 21-22 people signed up so far. I would like to have at least 32, so if you have any friends that are interested in playing forward this info.
I attached the 3pg flyer and info/registration sheet again. Feel free to print this off and copy for friends and/or players who may be interested.
We will have room for up to 64 players if needed. I don't see us getting to that number but you never know. With 20 registered and maybe a few game day registrations we should hit the 32 mark. If you plan on coming but haven't registered please do so- this helps with planning and raffling prizes and such. Don't forget the winner will have an expense paid trip to Chicago in July at the US Finals.
You can email me for questions and such but most everything you'll need is on the attached document. Come early- at least 11:30am- we will start at noon. Should be a great time. See ya then!!!
PS- new official Dominion online play to open soon:
http://playdominion.com/
PS2- new expansion coming in August, looks like a good one and the extra base card set:
http://www.dicetowernews.com/dominion-dark-ages/
http://www.dicetowernews.com/dominion-base-cards-coming-soon/
Shiloh Christie
Dominion Tourny GM
-
For what it's worth, we just held a Regional Qualifier at KublaCon in San Francisco ( http://kublacon.com ). It used a 3 round "moving brackets" (similar to Swiss but slightly easier to calculate) preliminary round. 4 people from each of 2 preliminary rounds advanced to the semifinals. A "strength of schedule" setup was used as a tiebreaker. Basically adding up the points for 1st-2nd-3rd of all opponents each person faced. Given the feedback, probably better than using VPs. Whether better or about the same as using a coin-flip or other "random event" seems an open question to me.
I grew up in Michigan, and have been thinking about getting back there for the summer. Not sure if I might make it by June 23rd or not, but it is tempting :).
--
meow on BSW
JuiceBox @ KublaCon
not yet registered on IsoTropic
-
Will there be a qualifier anywhere near Los Angeles or another one in California. These tournaments really need to be posted on these forums. I didn't even know about the tournament in KublaCon, and I'm sure many here didn't know about it either because no one posted. I really want to go to one of these Regional Qualifiers. Is there a website linking where they are taking place?
-
I try to post every single one I can find to this subforum. There isn't an organized collection of them (other than this forum), it appears.
-
Just a little note. My sbcglobal email account got hacked so it doesn't work. Please use the gmail account on the flyer instead- shilohc888@gmail.com. With 10 days left or so, its very safe to say that there is room for everyone. We have 25 or so signed up so far. We will have room for 64 just in case but that's not probable. So if you didn't register just show up with your entry fees and we'll get you in. See you at the tourny!!! ;D
-
Anyone here going to this?
Goblue1616 and I just registered and will be there.
Ed
-
Anyone here going to this?
Goblue1616 and I just registered and will be there.
Ed
I was originally registered but won't be able to go after all for multiple reasons, alas. Perhaps next year.
-
Anyone here going to this?
Goblue1616 and I just registered and will be there.
Ed
I plan to be there!
-
Anyone here going to this?
Goblue1616 and I just registered and will be there.
Ed
As will I!
Edit: I will be the guy wearing a blue shirt with some marine life one it. Look for me! :)
-
Nice.
Will be cool to meet you guys.
Are either of you going tonight?
Let's try our best NOT to play each other in the prelims so we can meet in the semis/finals.
I'll wear a green tshirt tomorrow (brown hoodie tonight). Maybe an Ironman baseball cap if I remembered to bring it.
Ed
-
Nice.
Will be cool to meet you guys.
Are either of you going tonight?
Let's try our best NOT to play each other in the prelims so we can meet in the semis/finals.
I'll wear a green tshirt tomorrow (brown hoodie tonight). Maybe an Ironman baseball cap if I remembered to bring it.
Ed
Shadiness ;P.
-
I don't know what I'll be wearing, but just about everything I own is blue. Uh, I am blond haired... my name is Robby... oh, I'm left handed! That'll give me away.
-
I suspect he'd look something like this (http://images.wikia.com/mafiamaniac/images/c/ce/Mafia.jpg), or possibly this (http://images.wikia.com/en.futurama/images/d/d5/Robot_Mafia.jpg).
-
I don't know what I'll be wearing, but just about everything I own is blue. Uh, I am blond haired... my name is Robby... oh, I'm left handed! That'll give me away.
Those lefties... making a scene at dinner parties across the globe. :P
To avoid hard feelings if it wasn't apparent... jk, you lefties are pretty awesome!
-
Plenty of room for everyone if you are in the area- just show up- we have 25-30 players. See you tomorrow!!! :)
BTW- I also am a lefty and I will be wearing something cool- don't know what yet.
-
Just finished the tournament. Very well run.
Full update to come tonight.
For now, know that Robz, shark bait, goblue and I all played each other in the finals and/or semi finals.
And, if you want to test your strategy chops, this was the final kingdom:
Loan
steward
Fortune teller
Pirate ship
Remake
scout
cartographer
Lab
Expand
Bank
How would you play it?
One more tidbit: one of the semi final sets was random, but could easily be designed to make scout powerful. So good in fact it was almost the third pile - and not due to a pile rush...
More to come when I get in front of a computer instead of this iPhone...
Ed
-
A brief bit more to add. I went 4 - 1 in the prelims. Losing only to GoBlue on turns in a Workshop/Gardens rush. Then in the semifinals, I was matched up with ednever and GoBlue. I ended up being defeated by ed 50 - 48 - 43 (for GoBlue I think) in the semis.
All in all, it was a great time. A comment about the format, it honestly didn't seem like the prelims mattered. At all. If you won 2 games out of 5, you were in. The winner of the tournament was actually an alternate who had only won a single game (although he had a two or three second places). My thoughts are that less prelim games should be played and score based on place (as opposed to winner only counts and 2-4 are all the same). Then there is more time for a few more games in the finals so that the games between the best players aren't one and done.
But regardless, I had a great time and met some great people. And in the end, it's just fun to play dominion. So thanks are out to Shiloh for organizing such a great and fun tourney!
-
Tournament went great. Everyone seemed very pleased and most importantly all had a great time.
Some tidbits...
22 players in all- not bad for the first qualifier
We had a few players fly in from Seattle and Arizona- in hindsight, I will give 2-4 special prizes out for players who fly in from far distances.
Format- 5 rounds for everyone. Players try to get as many wins as possible. Half of the players- 11 would make it to Single-Elimination rounds. The problem I had with 11 players is that I wanted 4 games for the semi-finals, getting a winner each and make a 4-player final. With 4 games in the semis I would have a 3-3-3-2 type games and I could not have a 2 player game. So I need to add another player. There were a couple of 1 win players that probably wouldn't have gotten in if we would have had a few more players in the tournament. Coincidently, one of the 1-win players made it to the finals and won the whole thing.
In his defense, I've watched the player play once before and he is a very dedicated player. In fact, he only won 1 game in pre-lims but I believe he had 2 or 3 second place finishes. So his win record really wasn't reflective of his ability. So in a sense, it didn't surprise me that he won- though he really had to fight for it in the semis and finals- which were both very very close games. All the players seemed fine with his play and enjoyed the Single Elimination rounds.
We will definitely press to get more players in. My desire is to get at least 32 players so that we don't have these issues. The more players you have these issues tend to statistically fizzle away.
This definitely makes me think about a way to incorporate 2nd and 3rd places finishes in games, however VPoints cannot be used b/c of the high ceiling for points in a game like for Prosperity. I think I could establish a "tournament point" system that is simple enough to use. However, this would undermine the priority of a "straight-up wins" approach which is the current system in the Nationals and the Worlds. In those tournaments, second place means nothing. Its high-risk, high reward. That system still gives the underdog a chance as all they need focus on is getting a couple wins. In either case though, once you get to single-elimination rounds its win or go home.
As I looked at our tournament, the people that made it to Single Elimination rounds deserved to be there for the most part. The benefit of playing 5 rounds as opposed to 3 or 4 is that the better players WILL rise to the top and gain more wins. I think the current format we have is a great balance of a good taste of the cut-throat competition that one would taste in the Nationals and Worlds yet still gives people a chance to make it to Single Elimination rounds.
Playing devil's advocate, one could say that even though our tournment copys that of the National and Worlds, in the end only ONE person will go there so why should we feel the need to copy their format- let the winner deal with the cut-throat competition of the Nationals and Worlds when they get there. This is a great argument, which makes me seriously consider a simple "tournament point" system format that rewards people who get few wins but several 2nd place finishes. I definitely think there can be tweeks and room for improvement to add this kind of system in place.
There is also the possiblity to have 2 days of 4 rounds each, giving players the ability to give it a shot a second time if the first day goes bad for them. Though that may water down the attendence as some players will qualify the first day and not play the second day possibly. If our attendance gets past 40 I think I will consider this.
BTW- Time frame- 40min seemed about right. We finished early at least 3 out of the first 5 rounds with mostly 3 player games so that means with 4 player games 40 minutes rounds is solid. Most games finished between 20-40 min.
People also seemed to enjoy the sets a lot. The Pre-lim sets were pre-chosen and everyone had access to these sets on the web/flyer. The Single Elimination sets were randomized at the tournament- there were a couple of times where we randomized a couple of times until we knew a good sets would show up and seem to get some good play. We did leave a set that had Seaside and Intrigue with Sabatour and Witch with no blue cards. We purposely did that to throw a wrench in there. I think you always gotta throw in a set that challenges players in different ways it can't always be candy- we only did that in Single-Elimination though where there was a little more time.
Also, I guess there is current debate about players who start first in a 3-4 player game having an advantage. Until we get more clarification on this from the top dawgs of the game and Donald X, I simply tell players if one person has an issue with it, do a random draw for players to go first or roll a die or good ol' "paper, rock, scissors"- that seems to solve it.
For those that went or not, what do you think??? I want to get some good feedback while it fresh in our minds. :)
For those that came thanks for your great sportmanship and support.
Shiloh
"The Questioneer"
-
One comment about the games would regard the premade sets. Specifically regarding the pure base set that had gardens in it. In this game, there was only 1 optimal strategy. I know that both robz and I played it and both times, the game was over in about 5 minutes with the game being decided by one player having an extra turn over another player. The players just bought Workshops/Gardens and anyone who didn't, lost because there was no other strategy to counter it. There is the argument that if one player doesn't know that winning strategy then what does it matter b/c the better player will win. But on the flip side, a game between two skilled players comes solely down to both luck of the draw and turn order. With premade sets, it would be nice to avoid games like this so that good players have a chance to show why they are good players.
All of the other sets I played were fantastic but the few sets that were like that were a little dull to play. To add my thoughts, imo the base game itself isn't very complex. Games get more and more interesting as all of the expansions are mixed together. It would be fun if for future preliminary rounds, the kingdoms could have more representation from different sets (I think all the kingdoms had 10 cards from a single expansion).
-
I agree sharky. This will be changed next year. All Pre-lim sets will involve at least 2 sets.
Yes, I put the Workshop/Gardens set in there as a test and get feedback. Your opinion was the general consensus. Other than this combo, what other combos are troublesome???
Also, for next year I plan on doing the 5-round pre-lims differently. I will use a "tournament point" system. It will go like this:
1st place= 5pts (includes extra bonus point for the win)
2nd place= 3pts
3rd place= 2pts
4th place= 1pts
Highest pts. (top half) will advance to Single Elimination rounds. I think this will be much better for all.
-
I agree sharky. This will be changed next year. All Pre-lim sets will involve at least 2 sets.
Yes, I put the Workshop/Gardens set in there as a test and get feedback. Your opinion was the general consensus. Other than this combo, what other combos are troublesome???
Also, for next year I plan on doing the 5-round pre-lims differently. I will use a "tournament point" system. It will go like this:
1st place= 5pts (includes extra bonus point for the win)
2nd place= 3pts
3rd place= 2pts
4th place= 1pts
Highest pts. (top half) will advance to Single Elimination rounds. I think this will be much better for all.
I personally didn't have a problem with any other sets, but I think some other players said that one of the sets was solely a BM+X type of game.
As for the gardens game, the main problem is that was the only good thing present. There was chapel, the supreme engine enabler, but there was nothing to build an engine with. No +buy and no actions that did anything useful for an engine. The presence of Witch is pointless b/c that just slows the pace of the game for non-gardeners and doesn't affect gardeners b/c all they need is a workshop in hand.
-
I had a blast at this tournament as well! I wore an orange shirt, lol. Thank you to Shiloh for organizing it and therefore sitting out on the tournament you wanted to play in (I believe they call this 'taking one for the team').
Highlights for me:
-Playing with a bunch of awesome people!
-Winning one of the base card sets in a raffle - love the curse art with the raven!
-Going 4-1 in prelims, though that was mostly due to getting lucky and not having to play any games with shark, Robz, and ednever :) My loss was in a game with goblue (who came in 2nd I think)
-Winning a game by 1 over an opponent who had purchased a curse early to ambassador, and ended with it still in deck :) To top it off, his last turn he played salvager with curse in hand, but needed to salvage a card with some value in order to obtain a province.
-Watching that final game! Went right down to the wire, and really everyone was in it at the end. It was just a really bizarre kingdom.
For suggestions on the tournament format, I like the idea of giving weighted points to different places. I was going to suggest 8-5-2 or 6-3-1 for 1st, 2nd, 3rd, but that was mainly because it was either the cost or point value of province-duchy-estate and I thought that was cool :) But 5-3-2-1 would actually give more significance to a 1st place finish, which seems a requirement given that's the real goal. For breaking potential ties, I've seen before where you keep track of the cumulative difference in points between your score and first for your game. So those who were closer to 1st point-wise are favored in the event of a tie. While this may actually place a slight disadvantage on prosperity games where the spread might be bigger because of colonies, it seems mostly fair, and is after all only for breaking ties.
Really, so glad I went to this though. It exceeded my expectations in the fun department, which were already pretty high.
-
But who won the Mafia side game tough?
-
Robz888 was on track to win the tournament, but was lynched by a vote of his fellow players in the final round.
-
Robz888 was on track to win the tournament, but was lynched by a vote of his fellow players in the final round.
Gar! In all seriousness I was super closing to winning--well Ed was closer, fine--and man did I blow it on that last board, the Priate Ship one. I'll write up my (very positive) thoughts about the tournament soon.
-
Also, for next year I plan on doing the 5-round pre-lims differently. I will use a "tournament point" system. It will go like this:
1st place= 5pts (includes extra bonus point for the win)
2nd place= 3pts
3rd place= 2pts
4th place= 1pts
Highest pts. (top half) will advance to Single Elimination rounds. I think this will be much better for all.
This is what they did at the tournament at Gencon last year (3 rounds 1st/2nd/3rd 5/3/1 points). You still need to have a couple of 1st place wins to have enough points to advance.
-
Also, for next year I plan on doing the 5-round pre-lims differently. I will use a "tournament point" system. It will go like this:
1st place= 5pts (includes extra bonus point for the win)
2nd place= 3pts
3rd place= 2pts
4th place= 1pts
Highest pts. (top half) will advance to Single Elimination rounds. I think this will be much better for all.
Just saw this on the homepage here for the online tourny:
For a four-player game:
6 points for the winner
4 points for second place
2 points for third place
0 points for fourth place
For a three-player game:
6 points for the winner
3 points for second place
0 points for third place
Ties will be broken in favor of most wins, then a playoff.
I like this a lot. This is a more refined "tournament point" system than mine. I will probably use this next year. I would change the last players points to "1" instead of "0" for psychological reasons. It would suck to end the day with "0" in my opinion.
The only thing I don't like about the online tourny is the 4-pod/4games idea. Playing the same people for 4 rounds is not really fun for players. Don't know why they did this. Simplicity I suppose.
-
I agree sharky. This will be changed next year. All Pre-lim sets will involve at least 2 sets.
Yes, I put the Workshop/Gardens set in there as a test and get feedback. Your opinion was the general consensus. Other than this combo, what other combos are troublesome???
Also, for next year I plan on doing the 5-round pre-lims differently. I will use a "tournament point" system. It will go like this:
1st place= 5pts (includes extra bonus point for the win)
2nd place= 3pts
3rd place= 2pts
4th place= 1pts
Highest pts. (top half) will advance to Single Elimination rounds. I think this will be much better for all.
I personally didn't have a problem with any other sets, but I think some other players said that one of the sets was solely a BM+X type of game.
As for the gardens game, the main problem is that was the only good thing present. There was chapel, the supreme engine enabler, but there was nothing to build an engine with. No +buy and no actions that did anything useful for an engine. The presence of Witch is pointless b/c that just slows the pace of the game for non-gardeners and doesn't affect gardeners b/c all they need is a workshop in hand.
I actually did the Village/Smithy/Library combo and spun through my deck quite effectively, much to the chagrin of Ednever... However I thought I had card-counted his deck to 48 cards, and not 50. Hence he won 50 points that round to my 47. That and I only had 29 cards with my 3 gardens in my deck... :o
Had I counted correctly, I would have tried to end the game by expiring a 3rd pile earlier...
It was a great experience, and 4 out of my 5 games were very close. Back to the grindstone...
-
Robz888 was on track to win the tournament, but was lynched by a vote of his fellow players in the final round.
Gar! In all seriousness I was super closing to winning--well Ed was closer, fine--and man did I blow it on that last board, the Priate Ship one. I'll write up my (very positive) thoughts about the tournament soon.
I was going to "seed" that final by record to see who went first, but when I got to the table you guys had all agreed to draw cards so I left it alone. Next year for Single Elimination rounds- starting player will go by seed from top to bottom.
All the Semi-finals and Finals were very close- loved that. :)
-
All of the other sets I played were fantastic but the few sets that were like that were a little dull to play. To add my thoughts, imo the base game itself isn't very complex. Games get more and more interesting as all of the expansions are mixed together. It would be fun if for future preliminary rounds, the kingdoms could have more representation from different sets (I think all the kingdoms had 10 cards from a single expansion).
Most definitely. Mix up the sets!!!
-
All of the other sets I played were fantastic but the few sets that were like that were a little dull to play. To add my thoughts, imo the base game itself isn't very complex. Games get more and more interesting as all of the expansions are mixed together. It would be fun if for future preliminary rounds, the kingdoms could have more representation from different sets (I think all the kingdoms had 10 cards from a single expansion).
Most definitely. Mix up the sets!!!
Yes this will happen next year. As in the Nationals and Worlds, there will be 2-3 set mixtures for the pre-lims also. :)
-
Posting my write-up on a new thread. For those who were there, please do comment over the top and add your color.
(It's long - I wrote it on the plane ride home...)
Ed
-
Also, for next year I plan on doing the 5-round pre-lims differently. I will use a "tournament point" system. It will go like this:
1st place= 5pts (includes extra bonus point for the win)
2nd place= 3pts
3rd place= 2pts
4th place= 1pts
Highest pts. (top half) will advance to Single Elimination rounds. I think this will be much better for all.
Just saw this on the homepage here for the online tourny:
For a four-player game:
6 points for the winner
4 points for second place
2 points for third place
0 points for fourth place
For a three-player game:
6 points for the winner
3 points for second place
0 points for third place
Ties will be broken in favor of most wins, then a playoff.
I like this a lot. This is a more refined "tournament point" system than mine. I will probably use this next year. I would change the last players points to "1" instead of "0" for psychological reasons. It would suck to end the day with "0" in my opinion.
The only thing I don't like about the online tourny is the 4-pod/4games idea. Playing the same people for 4 rounds is not really fun for players. Don't know why they did this. Simplicity I suppose.
The 0 is important because it leads to the same expected value overall. If you want to change it to 1, you have to adjust all the other values too.
If you don't play the same players, then every heat is constrained by the slowest heat, which makes things a lot slower, and is also a lot harder to communicate online rather than inperson.
-
If you don't play the same players, then every heat is constrained by the slowest heat, which makes things a lot slower, and is also a lot harder to communicate online rather than in person.
Of course, if everyone is playing the same set at the same time, this becomes less of a problem...
-
Also, for next year I plan on doing the 5-round pre-lims differently. I will use a "tournament point" system. It will go like this:
1st place= 5pts (includes extra bonus point for the win)
2nd place= 3pts
3rd place= 2pts
4th place= 1pts
Highest pts. (top half) will advance to Single Elimination rounds. I think this will be much better for all.
Just saw this on the homepage here for the online tourny:
For a four-player game:
6 points for the winner
4 points for second place
2 points for third place
0 points for fourth place
For a three-player game:
6 points for the winner
3 points for second place
0 points for third place
Ties will be broken in favor of most wins, then a playoff.
I like this a lot. This is a more refined "tournament point" system than mine. I will probably use this next year. I would change the last players points to "1" instead of "0" for psychological reasons. It would suck to end the day with "0" in my opinion.
The only thing I don't like about the online tourny is the 4-pod/4games idea. Playing the same people for 4 rounds is not really fun for players. Don't know why they did this. Simplicity I suppose.
The 0 is important because it leads to the same expected value overall. If you want to change it to 1, you have to adjust all the other values too.
That does make sense with the nice ratios and all. Alright "0" it is then.
-
If you want a minimum of 1 you can do:
4-player:
12
9
6
3
3-player
12
8
4
Ed
-
If you want a minimum of 1 you can do:
4-player:
12
9
6
3
3-player
12
8
4
Ed
yeah, I was thinking the same thing. In either case, this will be the new pre-lim point system for next year.
-
I actually did the Village/Smithy/Library combo and spun through my deck quite effectively, much to the chagrin of Ednever... However I thought I had card-counted his deck to 48 cards, and not 50. Hence he won 50 points that round to my 47. That and I only had 29 cards with my 3 gardens in my deck... :o
Had I counted correctly, I would have tried to end the game by expiring a 3rd pile earlier...
It was a great experience, and 4 out of my 5 games were very close. Back to the grindstone...
Didn't you have some sort of custom play-mat, along with some intimidatingly large multi-sided dice for counting? I wasn't convinced you were counting (although my daughter insisted you were), but that you were just trying to intimidate... :) I guess it worked, congrats on the win.
-
This is another question I will bring up for Donald X and Jay- at the Nationals and Worlds do they allow things like mats, counting dice and pen/paper to count or write down current card counts and scores.
I know online this is done for you and I know that legally by the rulebook that players can count the cards in any supply pile or deck. One cannot count the cards in any discard pile though and one cannot look through any deck or discard piles. Trash piles however can be counted and looked through.
-
From Donald himself.
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=876.25
It is not up to any rulebook to say that you can't use a memory aid; rather it is up to the rulebook to specifically allow it, or else you can't use one. It doesn't matter how much the game for you is not about this memorization, how much the memory thing seems tangential to whatever fun the game provides; you do not get to use anything other than your brain to handle that memorization, unless of course you are explicitly playing a variant. You also do not get to - and this is important - scrawl notes to yourself on your belly using your own blood.
-
Hmmm...lol- answered by Donald X in his own vague, unsure, silly way.
So is it yes or no???
I messaged him already- hopefully I can get a straight answer as far as tournaments are concerned.
I guess according to this quote that he thinks one should not use paper, pencil, counting dice or mats right??? I know that disappoints a lot of the online players who are used to those type of gauges.
-
If you are going to play by the book, it's a definite no. There is no ambiguity about it.
He just says sometimes maybe people want to play variants, and he is fine with that, as long as everyone who is playing is fine with it.
-
Hmmm...lol- answered by Donald X in his own vague, unsure, silly way.
So is it yes or no???
I do not see anything remotely vague about what I said before, but can repeat it for you: you do not get to track information on paper etc.
-
Great...just making sure...it was unclear from the quote- at least to me.
Thanks for the quick response by PM also.
-
If you are going to play by the book, it's a definite no. There is no ambiguity about it.
He just says sometimes maybe people want to play variants, and he is fine with that, as long as everyone who is playing is fine with it.
Ah I see now...what I meant is that I need to know what would be proper to use in a "tournament" setting. It seems he is pretty open-ended about this, but now that its cleared up I can move forward with improvements.
thanks
-
From Donald himself.
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=876.25
It is not up to any rulebook to say that you can't use a memory aid; rather it is up to the rulebook to specifically allow it, or else you can't use one. It doesn't matter how much the game for you is not about this memorization, how much the memory thing seems tangential to whatever fun the game provides; you do not get to use anything other than your brain to handle that memorization, unless of course you are explicitly playing a variant. You also do not get to - and this is important - scrawl notes to yourself on your belly using your own blood.
Funny, you know, I wasn't really raising it as an issue, really just trying to identify who the "Invincible Overlord" was. Have I identified him correctly?
As to the playmat / scorepads in play... They didn't really bother me, although I prefer to play against people who don't use them, so I'm good with the whole ruling here. I do see where these things come from -- it's absolutely rife in Isotropic.
On another related note, I think it's a great sign for the Official online Dominion that counters are not supported. :) We all knew that bots were in use at Isotropic, so when they implemented an official counter, it wasn't unexpected, and actually just added some transparency to a process that we already knew existed. I'm not sure how they stop bots from the Online Dominion (maybe, quite possibly they just can't), but at least it won't be "in the open", like it is at Isotropic, because that's really what's happened there -- the official counter has led to many people thinking this is an official way to play the game.
Cheers for the clarification all.