Dominion Strategy Forum

Miscellaneous => Forum Games => Mafia Game Threads => Topic started by: Dylan32 on August 06, 2021, 09:13:29 pm

Title: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Dylan32 on August 06, 2021, 09:13:29 pm
M133: Among Us Mafia

This is a Semi-Open Set Up Normal Game for 12 players invented by Ashersky.
You will find all the given game information in the following post.

MOD: Dylan


Sign Up List:
1. LaLight (Killed N1)
2. MiX (Killed N3
3. Swowl (Exiled D4)
4. faust
5. mathdude
6. gkrieg13 (Exiled D2)
7. Jimmmmm
8. jotheonah
9. iguanaiguana (Exiled D3)
10. EFHW (Killed N2)
11. WestCoastDidds
12. 2.71828..... (Killed N4)

Tags:

Game Tracker:
Day 1 Start (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20873.msg876510#msg876510)
Day 2 Start (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20873.msg877393#msg877393)
Day 3 Start (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20873.msg878266#msg878266)
Day 4 Start (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20873.msg878893#msg878893)
Day 5 Start (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20873.msg879369#msg879369)

The Rules:

The Golden Rule:
This is a game. Everyone who signs up to play must be considerate of each other, never get personal, and focus on having fun. Once the game starts, having signed up is a commitment: inactivity is just as inconsiderate as rude comments.

The Standard Rules:
1. No communication between players outside of the game thread or shared QTs at any time. This includes passing references, jokes, or cases in other games or threads, whether in context or not.
2. If the game thread is locked, do not post. If you are unsure if something is locked, ask the mod by PM.
3. Direct or verbatim quoting of mod-provided information (including QT opening and closing times) is strictly forbidden. Paraphrasing is okay.
4. Actions with instructions that do not specify a game state will be resolved in the order they are received.
5. All night actions must be submitted within 36 hours of day ending.
6. Players must post once every 24 hours.
7. Do not edit or delete posts, ever. If you need to clarify or correct something, post again.
8. Invisible text, font size less than 10, and spoiler tags are not allowed.
9. Cryptography is not allowed.
10. The time between an exile being reached and a flip being provided is called twilight. All players may continue posting during this time, including the exiled player.
11. Dead players may not post in thread or QT, except their Role QT. An exiled player is not "dead" until a flip has been provided.
12. Personal multimedia, such as video or audio recordings, are not allowed in the game thread.

The Voting Rules:
1. Votes should be in this format: Vote: Playername. Unambigiuous nicknames are acceptable, or any string that uniquely identifies a user. Note that the point of voting is, in fact, unambiguity, and attempting to make it unclear to other players (or, of course, mods) which user you are voting for is very ill-advised.
2. Unvotes should be in this format: unvote or Unvote: Playername.
3. Unvotes are not required if changing your vote from one player to another.
4. You may vote: no exile.
5. Exiles occur when a simple majority (rounded up) of living players is reached. Once reached, an exile cannot be undone.
6. If a majority lynch is not reached by the Day's deadline, no lynch occurs.

The Rest:
1. Bold, Blue text is reserved for the MODs. Players may not use it.
2. If you have an issue or problem with the game, please PM the Mod. Do not post complaints in the game thread.
3. Mods make mistakes - please point them out gently. If they can be corrected, they will. If irreversible, they will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
4. If a mod error disadvantages one faction greatly, the game may be called off.
5. Ask all questions and make all requests directly to the Mod via PM. Questions deemed as "universal" (defined as questions for which the answers should be available to all players) will be requested to be re-posted in the Game Thread and answered there.
6. Players may request prods on other players if they have not posted in 24 hours. Players are subject to replacement or modkill after one prod.
7. All rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity, as determined by the mod.
8. Each player will receive their own QT, regardless of role. Don't quote from it.
9. If the game goes on for 3 days and 3 nights without a lynch or nightkill, town wins.

Deadlines:
1. Days will last seven IRL days.
2. Nights will last 48 hours.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: Dylan32 on August 06, 2021, 09:13:56 pm
Setup Information


Asher9++ is a semi-open setup for 12 players. Setup generation is a randomized process that is open and explained below.

All games include a Universal Back-Up and a Godfather. The remaining 10 roles are determined by rolling six random numbers from 1-100. Each roll is separate. The following number ranges are assigned letters as shown:

1-50: T (Townie. This directly influences scum power roles.) (50/100)
51-60: E (ďEitherĒ Cop or Doctor) (10/100)
61-65: C (Cop) (5/100)
66-70: D (Doctor) (5/100)
71-80: V (Vigilante) (10/100)
81-90: M (Mason) (10/100)
91-100: B (Blocker) (10/100)

After the letters have been assigned, the mod refers to the list below to determine which power roles are included.

E Roles*
E = 1-Shot Doctor OR 1-Shot Cop
EE = 1-Shot Doctor OR 1-Shot Cop x2
EEE = Doctor OR Cop; 1-Shot Doctor OR 1-Shot Cop
EEEE = Doctor OR Cop; 1-Shot Doctor OR 1-Shot Cop x2
EEEEE = Doctor OR Cop x2; 1 -Shot Doctor OR 1-Shot Cop
EEEEEE = Doctor OR Cop x2; 1-Shot Doctor OR 1-Shot Cop x2

C Roles
C = 1-Shot Cop
CC = Cop
CCC = Cop; 1-Shot Cop
CCCC = Cop; 1-Shot Cop x2
CCCCC = Cop x2; 1-Shot Cop
CCCCCC = Cop x2; 1-Shot Cop x2

D Roles
D = Doctor
DD = Doctor; 1-Shot Doctor
DDD = Doctor; 1-Shot Doctor x2
DDDD = Doctor x2; 1-Shot Doctor
DDDDD = Doctor x2; 1-Shot Doctor x2
DDDDDD = Doctor x3

Vigilante Roles
V = 1-Shot Vigilante
VV = Vigilante
VVV = Vigilante; 1-Shot Vigilante
VVVV = Vigilante; 1-Shot Vigilante x2
VVVVV = Vigilante x2; 1-Shot Vigilante
VVVVVV = Vigilante x2; 1-Shot Vigilante x2

Mason Roles
M** = 1 Mason
MM = Innocent Child (Confirmed at start of Day 1)
MMM = 2 Masons
MMMM = 2 Masons; Innocent Child
MMMMM = 3 Masons
MMMMMM = 2 Masons; 2 Masons (i.e. two separate pairings)

Blocker Roles
B = Roleblocker
BB = Roleblocker; 1-Shot Roleblocker
BBB = Roleblocker; 1-Shot Roleblocker x2
BBBB = Roleblocker x2; 1-Shot Roleblocker
BBBBB = Roleblocker x2; 1-Shot Roleblocker x2
BBBBBB = Roleblocker x3

Scum Roles (In addition to the Godfather)
TTTTTT*** = Goon x2
TTTTT*** = Goon x2
TTTT = 1-Shot Strongman; Roleblocker
TTT = 1-Shot Strongman; Roleblocker
TT = Strongman; Roleblocker
T = Strongman; Roleblocker
0 Ts = Strongman; Roleblocker; 1-Shot Bulletproof****

After power roles are determined from the table above, Vanilla Townies are added to arrive at 12 players.

* "Or" roles are determined randomly
** Single M rolls result in the Universal Backup converting to a Mason
*** 5 or 6 T rolls result in a scum team of Goon - Goon - Godfather. During N0, the team may elect to have one of the two Goons be 1-Shot Bulletproof. This is optional and not required.
**** If there are zero Ts, one member of the mafia team is randomly 1-Shot Bulletproof.

Clarifications:

--If a 1-Shot PR is the first PR to die, the UB will inherit that role, even if the shot was used up. The UB will not receive a new shot.
--If the Universal Backup converts to a Mason due to a single M roll, that player will not be informed of the conversion.
--Mafia Strongman modifier defeats one doctor protection or roleblocker. If two or more doctors successfully protect the target, the kill will fail. If a doctor protects the target and the Strongman is blocked, the kill will fail.  If two roleblockers target the Strongman, the kill will fail.
--The Bulletproof modifier will be revealed upon death, if selected or assigned.

Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: LaLight on August 07, 2021, 07:10:54 am
good old asher9++ oh how i missed you.

/in twice
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: MiX on August 07, 2021, 10:58:42 am
/in

Normal games are cool too!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: Swowl on August 07, 2021, 04:18:20 pm
/innnn
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: faust on August 09, 2021, 01:55:33 pm
/in
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: ehunt on August 21, 2021, 12:38:57 am
/in
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: mathdude on August 21, 2021, 07:16:33 am
Ok. I'll jo/in.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: ehunt on August 22, 2021, 12:06:54 am
/out, i'm sorry, will have limited availability in patches of september
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: gkrieg13 on August 22, 2021, 01:03:18 am
/in
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: Jimmmmm on August 23, 2021, 08:55:05 pm
/in
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: iguanaiguana on August 31, 2021, 02:41:13 am
/in
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 02, 2021, 10:15:06 pm
/out, sorry
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: MiX on September 09, 2021, 02:10:13 pm
Bump.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: jotheonah on September 09, 2021, 02:20:22 pm
/in
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 10, 2021, 01:14:18 am
Back /in lol
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 10, 2021, 01:14:32 am
I'm gonna lurk
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: Dylan32 on September 10, 2021, 01:22:32 am
I'm gonna lurk

Preemptive prod issued
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: EFHW on September 10, 2021, 10:24:20 am
/in
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 10, 2021, 03:49:10 pm
/in
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 10, 2021, 04:18:26 pm
/in

Welcome :)
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: Dylan32 on September 10, 2021, 05:02:51 pm
X-1. If someone signs up in the next couple hours I can start N0 tonight!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 10, 2021, 11:14:40 pm
/in

Welcome :)

Thanks, friend
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: Galzria on September 10, 2021, 11:17:34 pm
X-1. If someone signs up in the next couple hours I can start N0 tonight!

good old asher9++ oh how i missed you.

/in twice

No no no - I think youíre good. LaLight iníed twice.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 11, 2021, 12:07:44 am
Yeesh, stop being a troll and hammer
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 11, 2021, 02:47:23 am
/in
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: Dylan32 on September 11, 2021, 03:23:34 am
X-1. If someone signs up in the next couple hours I can start N0 tonight!

good old asher9++ oh how i missed you.

/in twice

No no no - I think youíre good. LaLight iníed twice.

I thought about listing him twice, but I probably would have forgotten I did it until I had already locked the thread lol.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: Dylan32 on September 11, 2021, 03:34:20 am
Thread locked.

PMs going out now. Game will start after all players confirm in their QT.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: Dylan32 on September 11, 2021, 03:04:23 pm
What is this ship? Where is it going? You don't know. The one thing you do know: not everyone on the ship is supposed to be here. Who are the imposters?! If only it wasn't so hard to see who (or what) is inside these colorful spacesuits...

Day 1 begins. Thread unlocked!

Vote Count 1.0

Not Voting (12): LaLight, MiX, Swowl, faust, mathdude, gkrieg13, Jimmmmm, jotheonah, iguanaiguana EFHW, WestCoastDidds, 2.71828.....

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to exile. Day 1 ends September 18, 2021, at 3:00 PM server time.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: faust on September 11, 2021, 03:30:38 pm
Let's go!

This topic should be moved. I can do it, but so can you, Dylan.

Also the topic name should probably say Day 1.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 11, 2021, 04:22:36 pm
Do we get to pick the color of our spacesuit? Iíd like a light purple one, please.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 11, 2021, 04:29:43 pm
Do we get to pick the color of our spacesuit? Iíd like a light purple one, please.
Uh, are you claiming Serial Killer? I'm pretty sure that is someone else's job.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on September 11, 2021, 05:03:46 pm
heyyyy haven't been in a normal  game for a while, and this setup brings all the good memories!

vote: iguanaiguana goad to have you back!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on September 11, 2021, 05:04:27 pm
also i've never played among us but pretty much know all the memes
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 11, 2021, 05:12:40 pm
also i've never played among us but pretty much know all the memes

that's sus. ll vented. emergency meeting. ll killed green.

amogus

Vote: LL

This is arguably the best flavor because now no one will be obliged to do a RMM.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Swowl on September 11, 2021, 06:54:20 pm
Howdy all!
This started fast all of a sudden. Which is awesome, because starting tomorrow, I am sitting on a beach for like 4 days with nothinnggggg to do.



Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 11, 2021, 07:43:13 pm
Morning!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 11, 2021, 08:41:01 pm
Do we get to pick the color of our spacesuit? Iíd like a light purple one, please.
Uh, are you claiming Serial Killer? I'm pretty sure that is someone else's job.

No, I just care about fashion! Light purple is universally flattering
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 11, 2021, 08:41:51 pm
Jimmmmmmm! Hi friend! How you been? Itís been a minute.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 11, 2021, 09:11:06 pm
Jimmmmmmm! Hi friend! How you been? Itís been a minute.

Hey Didds! Not too bad. Been stuck at home under lockdown for a couple of months. Yourself?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 11, 2021, 10:01:40 pm
Vote: Lalight for being the co mod.

I'm gonna leave my vote here for three days until I realize you're not the co mod.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 11, 2021, 10:16:14 pm
Vote: iguana for now. More during the week hopefully.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mathdude on September 11, 2021, 10:22:38 pm
also i've never played among us but pretty much know all the memes

that's sus. ll vented. emergency meeting. ll killed green.

amogus

I've also never played. But I don't know the memes. This meant nothing to me.

Vote: MiX
Because... it's MiX?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 11, 2021, 11:23:05 pm
Hi Everybody!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 12, 2021, 01:17:40 am
Hello. I'm liking the back-to-back mafia games. Never played among us and don't know the memes. Is it important to know the flavor?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 12, 2021, 01:18:41 am
Hello. I'm liking the back-to-back mafia games. Never played among us and don't know the memes. Is it important to know the flavor?

Given that it's a (semi)-open setup, I can't imagine so.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 12, 2021, 03:54:25 am
Vote: joth
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 12, 2021, 04:40:03 am
also i've never played among us but pretty much know all the memes

that's sus. ll vented. emergency meeting. ll killed green.

amogus

I've also never played. But I don't know the memes. This meant nothing to me.

Vote: MiX
Because... it's MiX?

Don't worry, it means nothing to anyone.

Hello. I'm liking the back-to-back mafia games. Never played among us and don't know the memes. Is it important to know the flavor?

Not at all.

Vote: joth

Yeah honestly joth's probably outed scum already.

Vote: joth
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 12, 2021, 04:40:44 am
Oh man, feels good to have town!faust back. Welcome!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 12, 2021, 05:26:42 am
Oh man, feels good to have town!faust back. Welcome!
Don't you think you can buddy me!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 12, 2021, 08:26:38 am
Hello. I'm liking the back-to-back mafia games. Never played among us and don't know the memes. Is it important to know the flavor?

It seems like itís pop culture moment is waningÖ You could play one game and simultaneously get it and be not impressed. Itís like speed mafiaÖ everyone is a little dude in a colorful space suit, and the ďimpostersĒ go about killing the crew members while the crew members try to complete their tasks.. A crew member can call a conference and vote for someone to be ejected into space. Itís super fast, there is no vote count analysis and everyone is ďsusĒ (suspicious).

The colorful space suit dudes are cute though.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 12, 2021, 08:28:03 am
Hi Joth! Hi faust! Hi MiX!

Swowl, what beach?? Also Iím writhing with envy.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on September 12, 2021, 10:05:30 am
Do we get to pick the color of our spacesuit? Iíd like a light purple one, please.
Uh, are you claiming Serial Killer? I'm pretty sure that is someone else's job.

No, I just care about fashion! Light purple is universally flattering

this is my mod color!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on September 12, 2021, 10:06:03 am
Vote: Lalight for being the co mod.

I'm gonna leave my vote here for three days until I realize you're not the co mod.

I am ALWAYS the comod.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on September 12, 2021, 10:08:00 am
mmhm vote: MiX
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 12, 2021, 10:08:39 am
I suspect MiX and faust are voting on me in the hopes that Iíll overreact to a small wagon which is one of my primary scum tells. Itís a good plan, town points all around.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mathdude on September 12, 2021, 10:18:13 am
I suspect MiX and faust are voting on me in the hopes that Iíll overreact to a small wagon which is one of my primary scum tells. Itís a good plan, town points all around.
So I can't tell... does this mean you are, or are not, scum this round?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 12, 2021, 10:24:55 am
I suspect MiX and faust are voting on me in the hopes that Iíll overreact to a small wagon which is one of my primary scum tells. Itís a good plan, town points all around.
So I can't tell... does this mean you are, or are not, scum this round?

That depends on if I overreact to this wagon. But Iím not planning toÖ unless I already have? Itís all pretty subjective I suppose.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 12, 2021, 10:30:50 am
I suspect MiX and faust are voting on me in the hopes that Iíll overreact to a small wagon which is one of my primary scum tells. Itís a good plan, town points all around.
So I can't tell... does this mean you are, or are not, scum this round?

That depends on if I overreact to this wagon. But Iím not planning toÖ unless I already have? Itís all pretty subjective I suppose.

Seems like you have to me. You didn't even answer math's question. So, are you town?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 12, 2021, 11:01:36 am
I feel like I have completely missed RVS not posting the first almost 24 hours
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 12, 2021, 11:08:43 am
Vote: iguana


For the same reasons faust did.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 12, 2021, 11:16:48 am
Vote: iguana


For the same reasons faust did.

You mean..gkrieg?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 12, 2021, 11:37:52 am
Vote: iguana


For the same reasons faust did.

You mean..gkrieg?

Yes. That's the one
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 12, 2021, 12:01:03 pm
Vote: iguana


For the same reasons faust did.
I mean, those were some good reasons, can't argue with myself.

Vote: iguana
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 12, 2021, 12:02:11 pm
Vote: iguana


For the same reasons faust did.
I mean, those were some good reasons, can't argue with myself.

Vote: iguana

They're good reasons, but I think they're a scum play to exile town!iguana. I just can't stand by and watch him go through this.

It's too clean. Too easy. I don't see scum!iguana doing this.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 12, 2021, 12:06:41 pm
It was fun being IC last game, so let's be MIC this game with some effort and cases in RVS.

Vote: Lalight for being the co mod.

I'm gonna leave my vote here for three days until I realize you're not the co mod.

This is superficially scummy: iguana dodges the RVS decision with voting someone predetermined (which answers the "do I vote my partner in RVS" question which has plagued at least my mind as scum) while simultaneously avoiding being active for 3 days to see how the thread's going. However, scum!iguana would know how this looks, and could not in good faith make a post that does not make him townie.

If you look at his previous town game, he was almost upset at being so widely townread, yet I don't think that's how scum!iguana would think about the game this early into D1. He would most likely try to be in the same position as before, which implies being townread first. This post does not accomplish that, and therefore was not made by scum!iguana.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 12, 2021, 12:07:40 pm
Early wagons are great. We need another.

Vote: Joth
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 12, 2021, 12:10:09 pm
MiX analyzes my post in great detail... but misses that I was making a throwback to how I started the last game by voting for the comod for three days straight?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 12, 2021, 12:12:02 pm
MiX analyzes my post in great detail... but misses that I was making a throwback to how I started the last game by voting for the comod for three days straight?

That's what I meant by "voting someone predetermined".
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 12, 2021, 12:14:30 pm
I think I predetermine my first post in every game I play. That's how I ended up voting Lalight last time. So NAI there I guess.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mathdude on September 12, 2021, 04:24:42 pm
Early wagons are great. We need another.

Vote: Joth

You wanted a 3rd wagon? Or you didn't like MiX as a 2nd wagon?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 12, 2021, 04:28:30 pm
I think I predetermine my first post in every game I play. That's how I ended up voting Lalight last time. So NAI there I guess.

But when you do it, you are more likely town, so I guess I have to townread you for it. unvote
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 12, 2021, 04:29:55 pm
I suspect MiX and faust are voting on me in the hopes that Iíll overreact to a small wagon which is one of my primary scum tells. Itís a good plan, town points all around.
So I can't tell... does this mean you are, or are not, scum this round?

That depends on if I overreact to this wagon. But Iím not planning toÖ unless I already have? Itís all pretty subjective I suppose.

Seems like you have to me. You didn't even answer math's question. So, are you town?

Claiming town is meaningless, but I guess I can do it if you want me to.

Ahem

I am town
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 12, 2021, 04:34:15 pm
I suspect MiX and faust are voting on me in the hopes that Iíll overreact to a small wagon which is one of my primary scum tells. Itís a good plan, town points all around.
So I can't tell... does this mean you are, or are not, scum this round?

That depends on if I overreact to this wagon. But Iím not planning toÖ unless I already have? Itís all pretty subjective I suppose.

Seems like you have to me. You didn't even answer math's question. So, are you town?

Claiming town is meaningless, but I guess I can do it if you want me to.

Ahem

I am town

I believe you.

Vote: gkrieg
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 12, 2021, 04:35:40 pm
You know who we should never, ever fly under the radar? EFHW. Sheís got scary mind control skills. (Also, Iím still salty.)

Vote: EFHW

Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 12, 2021, 04:37:32 pm
You know who we should never, ever fly under the radar? EFHW. Sheís got scary mind control skills. (Also, Iím still salty.)

Vote: EFHW

Considering they were caught for basically no reason D2, I disagree with this statement.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 12, 2021, 05:15:12 pm
Caught but not exiled! Super powers!!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: Dylan32 on September 12, 2021, 07:48:37 pm
The crew was all gathered around the cafeteria table trying to figure out who didn't belong. Cyan spoke up, "Well, a few people here obviously don't belong here, but since those of us who do belong already know our tasks, let's get to work. Maybe we can figure out who the imposters are by seeing who is faking it."

Day 1 begins. Thread unlocked!

Vote Count 1.1

iguanaiguana (2): 2.71828....., faust
MiX (2): mathdude, LaLight
jotheonah (1): iguanaiguana
gkrieg13 (1): MiX
EFHW (1): WestCoastDidds

Not Voting (5): Swowl, Jimmmmm, jotheonah, EFHW, gkrieg13

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to exile. Day 1 ends September 18, 2021, at 3:00 PM server time.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Swowl on September 12, 2021, 08:01:39 pm
Hi Joth! Hi faust! Hi MiX!

Swowl, what beach?? Also Iím writhing with envy.

Cabo San Lucas!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mathdude on September 12, 2021, 08:04:53 pm
Come on people. MiX is a good wagon.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 12, 2021, 08:15:50 pm
I did not realize all the Joth voters had already unvoted.

I also don't like voting MiX because of all the tryhard.

Vote: EFHW because of saltiness is something I can get behind.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 12, 2021, 08:17:49 pm
I suspect MiX and faust are voting on me in the hopes that Iíll overreact to a small wagon which is one of my primary scum tells. Itís a good plan, town points all around.

Too careful an (effectively) first post in response to meaningless RVS votes.

Vote: joth
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 12, 2021, 08:18:07 pm
Hi Joth! Hi faust! Hi MiX!

Swowl, what beach?? Also Iím writhing with envy.

Cabo San Lucas!

Dude! Thatís amazing! Is DisSwan laying on the beach, too?,
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 12, 2021, 08:35:22 pm
You know who we should never, ever fly under the radar? EFHW. Sheís got scary mind control skills. (Also, Iím still salty.)

Vote: EFHW

Considering they were caught for basically no reason D2, I disagree with this statement.

This.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 12, 2021, 08:37:22 pm
I did not realize all the Joth voters had already unvoted.

I also don't like voting MiX because of all the tryhard.

Vote: EFHW because of saltiness is something I can get behind.
Did you guys read the mafia QT?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 12, 2021, 08:40:07 pm
Enough digression/regression regarding the last game. How shall we get out of RVS?

math, were you seriously pushing MiX, or was that more RVS?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 12, 2021, 09:54:09 pm
I donít know if I believe in RVS anymore.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 12, 2021, 10:33:58 pm
I did not realize all the Joth voters had already unvoted.

I also don't like voting MiX because of all the tryhard.

Vote: EFHW because of saltiness is something I can get behind.
Did you guys read the mafia QT?

No one didÖ there was never a link posted
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 12, 2021, 10:37:32 pm
I should post that. For the sake of everyone having info. Iíll do it in that thread tho.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mathdude on September 12, 2021, 10:45:29 pm
math, were you seriously pushing MiX, or was that more RVS?
If LL hadn't joined the vote already, I would have already moved on. But since there were 2 votes, I thought I'd see if anyone else was interested in joining too.

So maybe RVS? But
I donít know if I believe in RVS anymore.
Ditto?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mathdude on September 12, 2021, 10:50:52 pm
I did not realize all the Joth voters had already unvoted.

I also don't like voting MiX because of all the tryhard.

Vote: EFHW because of saltiness is something I can get behind.

You don't like tryhard, but saltiness is okay?
Vote: iguana
Let's try a better wagon here?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 13, 2021, 01:48:32 am
I did not realize all the Joth voters had already unvoted.

I also don't like voting MiX because of all the tryhard.

Vote: EFHW because of saltiness is something I can get behind.

You don't like tryhard, but saltiness is okay?
Vote: iguana
Let's try a better wagon here?
I was just about ready to vote MiX, and now you leave?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 13, 2021, 01:50:03 am
I suspect MiX and faust are voting on me in the hopes that Iíll overreact to a small wagon which is one of my primary scum tells. Itís a good plan, town points all around.

Too careful an (effectively) first post in response to meaningless RVS votes.

Vote: joth
Tsk, I don't do RVS. I get offended when people label my votes as RVS, and more so if they label them as meaningless.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 13, 2021, 02:03:39 am
Hi Everybody!

What meaningful scumtells do you infer from this post? Quacks like RVS to me.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 13, 2021, 02:17:30 am
Hi Everybody!

What meaningful scumtells do you infer from this post? Quacks like RVS to me.
It's important to also read what is not said.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 13, 2021, 02:38:29 am
Any chance of a translation for those of us unable to read between the line?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 13, 2021, 04:29:52 am
Any chance of a translation for those of us unable to read between the line?

It doesn't say he's town. It doesn't say anything. The capitalized "Everybody" and the exclamation mark says the post wasn't made in 1 second, but at the same time, it begs a second paragraph with random early thoughts which aren't there.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 13, 2021, 04:38:26 am
Math should be town here. His vote and push on me are very easy for scum!math to fake as he seems very comfortable doing it, but he seems genuine to me. Particularly this post:

math, were you seriously pushing MiX, or was that more RVS?
If LL hadn't joined the vote already, I would have already moved on. But since there were 2 votes, I thought I'd see if anyone else was interested in joining too.

So maybe RVS? But
I donít know if I believe in RVS anymore.
Ditto?

Which shows serious doubt over who to vote and how to proceed out of RVS.

Did you guys read the mafia QT?

Is there anything there that you'd like to be known? It matters for this game for your interaction with faust.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 13, 2021, 04:54:55 am
I read gkrieg's single post again and I realized it's either NAI or townie. Kinda forgot how gkrieg functions, or how people that are busy post in general.

Vote: joth, I think.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 13, 2021, 05:23:23 am
Vote: joth

You've missed your chance, math!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 13, 2021, 08:23:34 am
Hi Everybody!

What meaningful scumtells do you infer from this post? Quacks like RVS to me.

Whereís the ďVĒ?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 13, 2021, 08:25:51 am
Any chance of a translation for those of us unable to read between the line?

It doesn't say he's town. It doesn't say anything. The capitalized "Everybody" and the exclamation mark says the post wasn't made in 1 second, but at the same time, it begs a second paragraph with random early thoughts which aren't there.

If you must know it was a very oblique Simpsonís reference but nobody chimed in with ďHi, Doctor NickĒ so there you go.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 13, 2021, 08:41:53 am
Any chance of a translation for those of us unable to read between the line?

It doesn't say he's town. It doesn't say anything. The capitalized "Everybody" and the exclamation mark says the post wasn't made in 1 second, but at the same time, it begs a second paragraph with random early thoughts which aren't there.

If you must know it was a very oblique Simpsonís reference but nobody chimed in with ďHi, Doctor NickĒ so there you go.

Isn't that "Hello"? Or was that the response? I feel like I've gotten this wrong for years...

Do you usually do things like this as town? What about as scum?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 13, 2021, 08:51:04 am
Iím trying something new. Which in itself should probably suggest town for reasons Iím not going to spell out.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 13, 2021, 08:51:26 am
Hi Everybody!

What meaningful scumtells do you infer from this post? Quacks like RVS to me.

Whereís the ďVĒ?

I was talking to faust. This was your only post before he voted for you without explanation.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 13, 2021, 08:52:12 am
Hi Everybody!

What meaningful scumtells do you infer from this post? Quacks like RVS to me.

Whereís the ďVĒ?

I was talking to faust. This was your only post before he voted for you without explanation.

Oohhh got it
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 13, 2021, 09:02:09 am
Iím trying something new. Which in itself should probably suggest town for reasons Iím not going to spell out.

Okay, okay, I get it, you're town.

Wanna RVS on someone?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 13, 2021, 09:14:19 am
Letís

Vote: mathdude

Dude seems a little too eager to have wagons.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 13, 2021, 11:30:25 am
Letís

Vote: mathdude

Dude seems a little too eager to have wagons.
And that's scummy why?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 13, 2021, 12:04:41 pm
Letís

Vote: mathdude

Dude seems a little too eager to have wagons.
And that's scummy why?

Town wants to exile scum. Scum just wants to exile.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 13, 2021, 12:26:25 pm
For all the discussion of us not being RVS, the weekend start we've had feels very RVSy even for a normal game.

Mathdude's comments here

You don't like tryhard, but saltiness is okay?
Vote: iguana
Let's try a better wagon here?

remind me a bit of when he OMGUSed me in the last game here. (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20798.msg875111#msg875111)

It has that same attitude of scumreading someone for reading the game differently than you. He was town there, so for right now I'm reading it as Math is town again and would want to blend in more if he was scum.

Joth and Jimmm are my biggest unknowns this game.

I vaguely remember Jim as someone who played occasionally, didn't post much, but had a reputation for being good at finding the scums with short, decisive posts. I don't remember if I've ever read a scum Jim game though...

Joth I've seen as mod and I did some reading into his old games already, but I don't know his scum meta either.

@Joth, could you point me in the direction of a scum game you are proud of?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 13, 2021, 12:42:49 pm
I think Westworld was the last time I won as scum: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20403.0
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 13, 2021, 12:48:19 pm
I think Westworld was the last time I won as scum: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20403.0

Thanks! I now also have confirmation that you read 200 word long posts.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 13, 2021, 01:03:04 pm
I think Westworld was the last time I won as scum: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20403.0

Thanks! I now also have confirmation that you read 200 word long posts.

I try to read everything. And sometimes I even re-read things.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 13, 2021, 01:06:22 pm
I think Westworld was the last time I won as scum: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20403.0

Thanks! I now also have confirmation that you read 200 word long posts.

I try to read everything. And sometimes I even re-read things.

Maybe you should reread that game you linked. I just took a look and you said you won but you lost lol
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on September 13, 2021, 01:09:15 pm
Letís

Vote: mathdude

Dude seems a little too eager to have wagons.
And that's scummy why?

Town wants to exile scum. Scum just wants to exile.

yeeeah no. it's like this on paper, but in games on D1 most town wants to exile someone pretty mich the same as scum. let this someone be MiX
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on September 13, 2021, 01:11:06 pm
Oh man, feels good to have town!faust back. Welcome!

this is the case: MiX can only know faust is town for one reason. He's scum.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 13, 2021, 01:13:25 pm
I think Westworld was the last time I won as scum: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20403.0

Thanks! I now also have confirmation that you read 200 word long posts.

I try to read everything. And sometimes I even re-read things.

Maybe you should reread that game you linked. I just took a look and you said you won but you lost lol

He won a recent game, just look for it.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 13, 2021, 01:14:41 pm
Oh man, feels good to have town!faust back. Welcome!

this is the case: MiX can only know faust is town for one reason. He's scum.

Last game was probably the first where I scumread faust while I was alive. I think I finally have a good read on him, and if so he's town here. I'm just not feeling unease when looking at his posts.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 13, 2021, 01:20:27 pm
Letís

Vote: mathdude

Dude seems a little too eager to have wagons.
And that's scummy why?

Town wants to exile scum. Scum just wants to exile.
But what does that have to do with wanting wagons? Having wagons is the best way of catching scum.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 13, 2021, 01:22:39 pm
Letís

Vote: mathdude

Dude seems a little too eager to have wagons.
And that's scummy why?

Town wants to exile scum. Scum just wants to exile.
But what does that have to do with wanting wagons? Having wagons is the best way of catching scum.

I agree with faust.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 13, 2021, 01:23:45 pm
Oh man, feels good to have town!faust back. Welcome!

this is the case: MiX can only know faust is town for one reason. He's scum.

Not sold on the case
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 13, 2021, 01:24:58 pm
Oh man, feels good to have town!faust back. Welcome!

this is the case: MiX can only know faust is town for one reason. He's scum.

Last game was probably the first where I scumread faust while I was alive. I think I finally have a good read on him, and if so he's town here. I'm just not feeling unease when looking at his posts.
If 3 posts with less than 50 words between them are enough to get a solid read on me then I definitely need to put some serious work into my scum game.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 13, 2021, 01:25:12 pm
Iím trying something new. Which in itself should probably suggest town for reasons Iím not going to spell out.

New things are fun, let's not exile you D1
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 13, 2021, 01:26:54 pm
Oh man, feels good to have town!faust back. Welcome!

this is the case: MiX can only know faust is town for one reason. He's scum.

Last game was probably the first where I scumread faust while I was alive. I think I finally have a good read on him, and if so he's town here. I'm just not feeling unease when looking at his posts.
If 3 posts with less than 50 words between them are enough to get a solid read on me then I definitely need to put some serious work into my scum game.

Never said anything about a solid read, and by "good read" I mean what I believe my skill in reading you correctly in a game is, not just in early D1.

Iím trying something new. Which in itself should probably suggest town for reasons Iím not going to spell out.

New things are fun, let's not exile you D1

Are you joth's partner?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 13, 2021, 01:29:06 pm
Vote: Jimmmmm
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 13, 2021, 01:30:30 pm
MiX is scum but it's not the exile we want right now.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 13, 2021, 01:37:28 pm
I think Westworld was the last time I won as scum: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20403.0

Thanks! I now also have confirmation that you read 200 word long posts.

I try to read everything. And sometimes I even re-read things.

Maybe you should reread that game you linked. I just took a look and you said you won but you lost lol

Oh whoops. I also lost Memento as scum recently. I'll keep digging for a real win.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 13, 2021, 01:38:59 pm
Letís

Vote: mathdude

Dude seems a little too eager to have wagons.
And that's scummy why?

Town wants to exile scum. Scum just wants to exile.
But what does that have to do with wanting wagons? Having wagons is the best way of catching scum.

Say more about that.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 13, 2021, 01:40:48 pm
I think Westworld was the last time I won as scum: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20403.0

Thanks! I now also have confirmation that you read 200 word long posts.

I try to read everything. And sometimes I even re-read things.

Maybe you should reread that game you linked. I just took a look and you said you won but you lost lol

Oh whoops. I also lost Memento as scum recently. I'll keep digging for a real win.

I also lost as mafia in RMM56. Man, I'm not great at this game am I?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 13, 2021, 01:42:41 pm
Ok, here we go: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20294.0
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 13, 2021, 01:44:07 pm
Iím trying something new. Which in itself should probably suggest town for reasons Iím not going to spell out.

New things are fun, let's not exile you D1

But... what Joth was calling "new things" was just him opening the game by saying "Hi Everybody"

How can that possibly be a reason to not exile him?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 13, 2021, 01:44:51 pm
MiX is scum but it's not the exile we want right now.

Amazing.

Vote: Jimmmmm

Vote: Jimmmmm
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on September 13, 2021, 01:49:19 pm
MiX is scum but it's not the exile we want right now.

why not?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 13, 2021, 02:01:59 pm
Hi hi! I am SWAMPED at work today so I am falling a bit behind.

I feel better and better about my EFHW vote.  I am not down with voting for Joth, MiX, LL, or faust.  I don't have any real read on math, e, Jimmmm, Swowl, or iguana.  Who else is playing? The fact that I don't know isn't a good sign.

I should be able to catch up this evening.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mathdude on September 13, 2021, 02:04:49 pm
Letís

Vote: mathdude

Dude seems a little too eager to have wagons.
And that's scummy why?

Town wants to exile scum. Scum just wants to exile.
But what does that have to do with wanting wagons? Having wagons is the best way of catching scum.

Yes, I'm eager to get wagons. It's better to actually get people closer to X-1 or X-2 and see throughout the 5 or 7 days how people react, rather than having everyone at 1 or 2 votes until the final 6 hours when only the few online get a say in who gets exiled. If we get real wagons on many people throughout D1, then there's a lot more to look back at in later days. That's how we could find scum.

So I guess I agree with faust... hmmm, that makes me nervous. Oh well, it's D1. I can change my mind about him later if needed
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 13, 2021, 02:19:19 pm
I hate that FDS meta makes it towny to do a thing I consider to be the most scummy (fishing around for a ďviableĒ wagon rather than properly scum hunting).

I actually believe itís possible to productively scumhunt without forcing a bunch of claims and giving scum cover to pull off a town exile, which is what wagons for wagonsí sake usually accomplishes. But I guess we can agree to disagree.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mathdude on September 13, 2021, 02:33:49 pm
Maybe it's that I don't know most people's playstyles well enough to "productively scumhunt", but wagon analysis is the best option I have most of the time.

Regarding claims though... with the setup in this game, won't scum just claim VT most of the time? Or maybe counterclaim something near XYLO? So forcing out claims won't work as well as RMM games.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Swowl on September 13, 2021, 02:36:54 pm
Prod dodge.

Reading along. Will be back this evening.

Ppe Math - in my experience, yes
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 13, 2021, 02:53:07 pm
Letís

Vote: mathdude

Dude seems a little too eager to have wagons.
And that's scummy why?

Town wants to exile scum. Scum just wants to exile.
But what does that have to do with wanting wagons? Having wagons is the best way of catching scum.

Say more about that.
Wagons lead to wagon analysis which is good. Having wagons forces people to express opinions on the people that are wagoned when they might otherwise prefer to ignore them. It also forces the player that the wagon is on to engage, which also provides useful interactions.

I think if you went through the games on record you'd find that a bigger number of D1 wagons is positively correlated with town wins.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 13, 2021, 02:53:44 pm
MiX is scum but it's not the exile we want right now.

why not?
If I tell you we'd have to kill him.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 13, 2021, 02:54:50 pm
I hate that FDS meta makes it towny to do a thing I consider to be the most scummy (fishing around for a ďviableĒ wagon rather than properly scum hunting).

I actually believe itís possible to productively scumhunt without forcing a bunch of claims and giving scum cover to pull off a town exile, which is what wagons for wagonsí sake usually accomplishes. But I guess we can agree to disagree.

I, hilariously enough, disagree. I think my role fishing in RMM60 is what allowed me to get great reads, and that there is no better way to get them in a closed RMM. In this setup, however, role fishing is very anti-town and should not be done. It does provide excellent reads, but those aren't needed since town PRs are already almost always town.

Viable wagons are in practice the only wagons, and as such are useful for VCA.

Also what faust said.

MiX is scum but it's not the exile we want right now.

why not?
If I tell you we'd have to kill him.

8)
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 13, 2021, 02:55:01 pm
Regarding claims though... with the setup in this game, won't scum just claim VT most of the time? Or maybe counterclaim something near XYLO? So forcing out claims won't work as well as RMM games.
I do not think discussing what sucm would and would not claim is a useful topic of discussion. Quite the opposite.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 13, 2021, 04:18:22 pm
so anyway faust is town & Didds is town & MiX is ??? but he's being pleasant and helpful.

idk, nobody's pinging me overmuch, which makes sense because none of you are terrible at this game.

Vote: EFHW
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: Dylan32 on September 13, 2021, 05:34:52 pm
"Why does this download always take so long? I just know I'm going to get stabbed in the back here," thought Red. Meanwhile, Orange walked around and saw Blue and Black together by some broken wires in the electrical room, Yellow filling up their gas can in storage, and Purple taking out the trash.

Vote Count 1.2

iguanaiguana (2): 2.71828....., mathdude
MiX (1): LaLight
jotheonah (1): Jimmmmm
EFHW (3): WestCoastDidds, iguanaiguana, jotheonah
Jimmmmm (2): faust, MiX

Not Voting (3): Swowl, EFHW, gkrieg13

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to exile. Day 1 ends September 18, 2021, at 3:00 PM server time.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 13, 2021, 06:05:04 pm
so anyway faust is town & Didds is town & MiX is ??? but he's being pleasant and helpful.

idk, nobody's pinging me overmuch, which makes sense because none of you are terrible at this game.

Vote: EFHW
Wait a minute - are you salty too?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 13, 2021, 06:06:20 pm
I feel better and better about my EFHW vote. 

I think you have this on speed dial. I used to scum read it. Now I think it's NAI.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 13, 2021, 06:10:45 pm
Is there anything there that you'd like to be known? It matters for this game for your interaction with faust.
No, just offering evidence for not having super powers.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 13, 2021, 06:11:48 pm
so anyway faust is town & Didds is town & MiX is ??? but he's being pleasant and helpful.

idk, nobody's pinging me overmuch, which makes sense because none of you are terrible at this game.

Vote: EFHW
Wait a minute - are you salty too?
Because there can't be anything in the current game that is scummy.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 13, 2021, 06:15:42 pm
so anyway faust is town & Didds is town & MiX is ??? but he's being pleasant and helpful.

idk, nobody's pinging me overmuch, which makes sense because none of you are terrible at this game.

Vote: EFHW
Wait a minute - are you salty too?
Because there can't be anything in the current game that is scummy.

This was true before, but not now: what do you think about math's answer to your question?

Also I think it's obvious joth voted you because you were a wagon.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 13, 2021, 06:32:46 pm
math, were you seriously pushing MiX, or was that more RVS?
If LL hadn't joined the vote already, I would have already moved on. But since there were 2 votes, I thought I'd see if anyone else was interested in joining too.

So maybe RVS? But
I donít know if I believe in RVS anymore.
Ditto?

MiX wanted my response to this. I don't play this way, but I know some people do. Meaning being influenced by existing wagons in placing a vote. Maybe that's why joth just voted me. But given that math exhorted others to vote MiX, I'd say this is not a satisfactory answer. I don't see how it can be RVS since he had reasons. Not random.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 13, 2021, 06:33:46 pm
Come on people. MiX is a good wagon.

Here is the exhorting I mentioned in my last post.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 13, 2021, 07:50:27 pm
I feel better and better about my EFHW vote. 

I think you have this on speed dial. I used to scum read it. Now I think it's NAI.
. By this do you mean that WCD frequently scum reads you early on?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 13, 2021, 07:51:04 pm
I feel better and better about my EFHW vote. 

I think you have this on speed dial. I used to scum read it. Now I think it's NAI.
. By this do you mean that WCD frequently scum reads you early on?

Yes, with that exact sentence.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 13, 2021, 07:56:03 pm
@EFHW, obviously you're not voting. Any scum reads though?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 13, 2021, 08:07:53 pm
so anyway faust is town & Didds is town & MiX is ??? but he's being pleasant and helpful.

idk, nobody's pinging me overmuch, which makes sense because none of you are terrible at this game.

Vote: EFHW
Wait a minute - are you salty too?
Because there can't be anything in the current game that is scummy.

This was true before, but not now: what do you think about math's answer to your question?

Also I think it's obvious joth voted you because you were a wagon.

lol. I voted EFHW because of a combo of trusting my town reads and PoE.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 13, 2021, 08:23:01 pm
Also I think it's obvious joth voted you because you were a wagon.

lol. I voted EFHW because of a combo of trusting my town reads and PoE.

I can't tell if this is a joke or not.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 13, 2021, 08:23:25 pm
Also I think it's obvious joth voted you because you were a wagon.

lol. I voted EFHW because of a combo of trusting my town reads and PoE.

I can't tell if this is a joke or not.

EBWOP.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 13, 2021, 09:06:27 pm
I feel like this game has a whole lot of "[player] is [alignment]" with very few reasons provided, and I'm not sure what to do with that.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 13, 2021, 09:15:01 pm
I feel like this game has a whole lot of "[player] is [alignment]" with very few reasons provided, and I'm not sure what to do with that.

Believe them. Or disbelieve them. Depending on your reads.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 13, 2021, 09:21:09 pm
Responding to EFHWÖ.

It is true that I scum read EFHW often. She is hard for me to read, no question. I find her cagey and super sharp, but for me the difference between scum!EFHW and town!EFHW is the quality of her questions. When sheís town, the questions are smart and incisive. When she is scum the questions donít do much or reveal anything.

Thus far in this game, I find her questions more like the latter than the former. Itís early in the day so this could change, obvi, but since yesterday her questions have not been probing, and today she has been defensive about a tiny wagon.

The post was the scummiest to me:
Enough digression/regression regarding the last game. How shall we get out of RVS?

math, were you seriously pushing MiX, or was that more RVS?

The assumption that all the votes thus far were RVS has been discussed by faust and others who donít think about their votes as random. So, the first assumption is flawed. And then her question isnít incisive or probing.

Itís just seems like EFHW-lite, to me.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 13, 2021, 09:28:47 pm
Didds, have a cookie.

Vote: EFHW
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 13, 2021, 09:48:58 pm
Ok I know I just said Didds was town, but quick gut check: does town Didds push this hard this early? I feel like Didds isnít usually quite this confident or assertive in her Day 1 reads.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 13, 2021, 09:52:57 pm
@EFHW, obviously you're not voting. Any scum reads though?

I'm feeling influenced by past games at the moment, so I'm trying to get oriented. It's only been one day, you know! I don't want to throw out names based on nothing. Give me some time.

Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mathdude on September 13, 2021, 09:55:30 pm
I feel like this game has a whole lot of "[player] is [alignment]" with very few reasons provided, and I'm not sure what to do with that.

Ok, Jimmmmm is scum because he's not engaging much. And then he does exactly what he's calling out for people not to do.

Didds, have a cookie.

Vote: EFHW

No explanation? I'm not sure what to do with that. Oh, how about
Vote: Jimmmmm?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 13, 2021, 09:58:48 pm
Ok I know I just said Didds was town, but quick gut check: does town Didds push this hard this early? I feel like Didds isnít usually quite this confident or assertive in her Day 1 reads.

Iím trying to be more confident and assertive! So, itís true that it isnít characteristic but that is deliberate. Iím frustrated with being so sucky at a game I enjoy. :/
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 13, 2021, 10:00:28 pm
Responding to EFHWÖ.

It is true that I scum read EFHW often. She is hard for me to read, no question. I find her cagey and super sharp, but for me the difference between scum!EFHW and town!EFHW is the quality of her questions. When sheís town, the questions are smart and incisive. When she is scum the questions donít do much or reveal anything.

Thus far in this game, I find her questions more like the latter than the former. Itís early in the day so this could change, obvi, but since yesterday her questions have not been probing, and today she has been defensive about a tiny wagon.

The post was the scummiest to me:
Enough digression/regression regarding the last game. How shall we get out of RVS?

math, were you seriously pushing MiX, or was that more RVS?

The assumption that all the votes thus far were RVS has been discussed by faust and others who donít think about their votes as random. So, the first assumption is flawed. And then her question isnít incisive or probing.

Itís just seems like EFHW-lite, to me.

Apologies to those who don't feel they were doing RVS. I was stuck in it, so getting out of it myself was the main point of what I was saying. I actually think my question to mathdude was sufficiently incisive. Why is he calling for people to join him on the wagon at the same time he is calling it RVS, maybe, he isn't sure?

I am lacking insight into which posts sound defensive. Can you point to them?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 13, 2021, 10:02:33 pm
I feel like this game has a whole lot of "[player] is [alignment]" with very few reasons provided, and I'm not sure what to do with that.

Ok, Jimmmmm is scum because he's not engaging much. And then he does exactly what he's calling out for people not to do.

Didds, have a cookie.

Vote: EFHW

No explanation? I'm not sure what to do with that. Oh, how about
Vote: Jimmmmm?

If you read the preceding post you'll find that Didds offered an explanation for her read on EFHW.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 13, 2021, 10:03:45 pm
EFHW, This is the one that felt defensive to me

math, were you seriously pushing MiX, or was that more RVS?
If LL hadn't joined the vote already, I would have already moved on. But since there were 2 votes, I thought I'd see if anyone else was interested in joining too.

So maybe RVS? But
I donít know if I believe in RVS anymore.
Ditto?

MiX wanted my response to this. I don't play this way, but I know some people do. Meaning being influenced by existing wagons in placing a vote. Maybe that's why joth just voted me. But given that math exhorted others to vote MiX, I'd say this is not a satisfactory answer. I don't see how it can be RVS since he had reasons. Not random.


PPE: 1
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 13, 2021, 10:05:59 pm
I don't see it.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 13, 2021, 10:07:45 pm
EFHW, This is the one that felt defensive to me

math, were you seriously pushing MiX, or was that more RVS?
If LL hadn't joined the vote already, I would have already moved on. But since there were 2 votes, I thought I'd see if anyone else was interested in joining too.

So maybe RVS? But
I donít know if I believe in RVS anymore.
Ditto?

MiX wanted my response to this. I don't play this way, but I know some people do. Meaning being influenced by existing wagons in placing a vote. Maybe that's why joth just voted me. But given that math exhorted others to vote MiX, I'd say this is not a satisfactory answer. I don't see how it can be RVS since he had reasons. Not random.


PPE: 1

Hmm I can see that.

I don't see it.

From an outside perspective, the bolded statements can look defensive.

I don't think that's quite what Didds was thinking about though, at least I would be very surprised to have the same thought process as her.

Didds, what did you see in that post that made EFHW sound defensive, and why?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 13, 2021, 10:13:57 pm
Itís perception, so I think itís fair for other people not to see it.

I see it as defensive because it begins with a deflection on the topic (MiX wanted an answer), then a shrug (I donít play this way but some people do), then a deflection (maybe thatís what Joth vote was).
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mathdude on September 13, 2021, 10:25:13 pm
I feel like this game has a whole lot of "[player] is [alignment]" with very few reasons provided, and I'm not sure what to do with that.

Ok, Jimmmmm is scum because he's not engaging much. And then he does exactly what he's calling out for people not to do.

Didds, have a cookie.

Vote: EFHW

No explanation? I'm not sure what to do with that. Oh, how about
Vote: Jimmmmm?

If you read the preceding post you'll find that Didds offered an explanation for her read on EFHW.

So, sheeping? Do you trust Didds enough to do that here? Do you feel nervous yet with 3 votes sitting on you?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 13, 2021, 10:32:41 pm
I don't need any amount of trust to move my vote at this point.

No I don't feel nervous having votes without reasons. Presumably either reasons will come or they'll be moved before Day's end.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on September 14, 2021, 01:47:32 am
Iím frustrated with being so sucky at a game I enjoy. :/

oh, unironically welcome to the club
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 14, 2021, 02:12:58 am
I don't need any amount of trust to move my vote at this point.

No I don't feel nervous having votes without reasons. Presumably either reasons will come or they'll be moved before Day's end.
Or we'll exile you. That would be the preferred outcome.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 14, 2021, 02:22:49 am
Why's that?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 14, 2021, 02:23:35 am
You want to exile me without providing reasons?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 14, 2021, 02:37:27 am
You want to exile me without providing reasons?
Why would I want to provide reasons?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on September 14, 2021, 04:40:42 am
You want to exile me without providing reasons?
Why would I want to provide reasons?

to convince other people, usually that's how it works
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 14, 2021, 06:59:36 am
You want to exile me without providing reasons?
Why would I want to provide reasons?

to convince other people, usually that's how it works
Yes but Jimmmmm's question implies that if we exile him without providing reasons, that would somehow be bad. Even though there is clearly no more convincing necessary if with have to votes to exile him.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 14, 2021, 07:06:30 am
You want to exile me without providing reasons?
Why would I want to provide reasons?

to convince other people, usually that's how it works
Yes but Jimmmmm's question implies that if we exile him without providing reasons, that would somehow be bad. Even though there is clearly no more convincing necessary if with have to votes to exile him.

It would certainly be bad if he flips town.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 14, 2021, 07:23:53 am
Iím frustrated with being so sucky at a game I enjoy. :/

oh, unironically welcome to the club

xoxo
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on September 14, 2021, 08:37:50 am
You want to exile me without providing reasons?
Why would I want to provide reasons?

to convince other people, usually that's how it works
Yes but Jimmmmm's question implies that if we exile him without providing reasons, that would somehow be bad. Even though there is clearly no more convincing necessary if with have to votes to exile him.

i see Jimmmmm's question as simple curiosity tbh. But maybe I'm judging by myself. Let's ask Jimmmmm
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 14, 2021, 09:16:35 am
Well really I find the idea of exiling (or pushing for one) without providing reasons absurd, both because you need to convince others to join you, and because you want to generate discussion that will help this and future exiles be more likely to be successful.

Really my question meant "Do you realise you implied that you want to exile me without providing reasons?" Turns out that was what he meant to imply.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 14, 2021, 10:33:58 am
You want to exile me without providing reasons?
Why would I want to provide reasons?

to convince other people, usually that's how it works
Yes but Jimmmmm's question implies that if we exile him without providing reasons, that would somehow be bad. Even though there is clearly no more convincing necessary if with have to votes to exile him.

It would certainly be bad if he flips town.
Not more than any town exile is bad.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 14, 2021, 10:37:33 am
Well really I find the idea of exiling (or pushing for one) without providing reasons absurd, both because you need to convince others to join you, and because you want to generate discussion that will help this and future exiles be more likely to be successful.
It seems like discussion happened despite my not giving reasons.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 14, 2021, 10:38:49 am
Anyways, Jimmmmm, you do realise you implied that you want us to not exile you without providing reasons?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on September 14, 2021, 10:41:13 am
Anyways, Jimmmmm, you do realise you implied that you want us to not exile you without providing reasons?

I don't like this. vote: faust
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 14, 2021, 10:44:39 am
Anyways, Jimmmmm, you do realise you implied that you want us to not exile you without providing reasons?

"[not exile you] without providing reasons" or "not [exile you without providing reasons]"?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 14, 2021, 10:45:32 am
Well really I find the idea of exiling (or pushing for one) without providing reasons absurd, both because you need to convince others to join you, and because you want to generate discussion that will help this and future exiles be more likely to be successful.
It seems like discussion happened despite my not giving reasons.

I'm not sure we're any closer to exiling scum.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 14, 2021, 10:49:04 am
Anyways, Jimmmmm, you do realise you implied that you want us to not exile you without providing reasons?

"[not exile you] without providing reasons" or "not [exile you without providing reasons]"?
The former.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 14, 2021, 10:49:49 am
Well really I find the idea of exiling (or pushing for one) without providing reasons absurd, both because you need to convince others to join you, and because you want to generate discussion that will help this and future exiles be more likely to be successful.
It seems like discussion happened despite my not giving reasons.

I'm not sure we're any closer to exiling scum.
So why did you engage in this discussion?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 14, 2021, 10:51:15 am
I didn't, until LL asked me a question.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 14, 2021, 10:53:05 am
Anyways, Jimmmmm, you do realise you implied that you want us to not exile you without providing reasons?

"[not exile you] without providing reasons" or "not [exile you without providing reasons]"?
The former.

Are you suggesting that I should argue my own Towniness absent any arguments for my scumminess?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 14, 2021, 10:54:00 am
I have reached the critical point of faust that I only want to misexile them.

Faust, do you think this discussion will help catch a wolf?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 14, 2021, 10:57:12 am
Can someone articulate why the Jimmmmm wagon?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 14, 2021, 10:59:35 am
Can someone articulate why the Jimmmmm wagon?

He's scummy.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 14, 2021, 12:27:30 pm
I feel like this game has a whole lot of "[player] is [alignment]" with very few reasons provided, and I'm not sure what to do with that.

Welcome to playing with MiX! And apparently faust is being MiX now too. I can't scumread MiX for it... But faust was doing this last game as scum for scum reasons and now he's doing it again.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 14, 2021, 12:29:12 pm
Iím frustrated with being so sucky at a game I enjoy. :/

oh, unironically welcome to the club

I bet my win record is worse than either of y'alls.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 14, 2021, 12:34:58 pm
Iím frustrated with being so sucky at a game I enjoy. :/

oh, unironically welcome to the club

I bet my win record is worse than either of y'alls.

Don't worry, a good player such as myself has one of the worst win records, so clearly this means you're skilled.

The real way to win is to never be town, isn't that right Dylan? Or be survivor 3 times...
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 14, 2021, 12:35:18 pm
You want to exile me without providing reasons?
Why would I want to provide reasons?

Can you at least address the fact that you JUST USED this tactic as scum in the last game to avoid ever having to give a reason for suspecting Swowl?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 14, 2021, 12:46:21 pm
I don't see the case for Jim at all. Looking through his ISO... he's done nothing but scumhunt. Is scumhunting supposed to be scummy now?

As for EFHW... I am also voting for her because of what I perceived as defensiveness. The majority of her posts so far (other than saying hello & asking a question to Math) are literally her defending herself... so I don't see how anyone can see it as anything but being defensive. I get that she was responding to having two votes on her before she'd even made a substantial post, but her defense seems over-exaggerated to me.

So for me EFHW is scummy because she has done hardly any scumhunting, even if I ask.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mathdude on September 14, 2021, 12:53:38 pm
Can someone articulate why the Jimmmmm wagon?

Because you're questioning it. That puts the chance out there that the two of you are partners.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mathdude on September 14, 2021, 01:01:04 pm
Hi Everybody!

What meaningful scumtells do you infer from this post? Quacks like RVS to me.

TBH though, the interactions before and after this rang a little scummy to me. So my vote wasn't entirely without reason. Also, creating interaction, seeing who defends and who jumps on wagon is helpful too.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on September 14, 2021, 03:09:21 pm
Iím frustrated with being so sucky at a game I enjoy. :/

oh, unironically welcome to the club

I bet my win record is worse than either of y'alls.

I didn't say you weren't in the club ;)
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 14, 2021, 03:10:53 pm
I have reached the critical point of faust that I only want to misexile them.

Faust, do you think this discussion will help catch a wolf?
Probably not. You never know though.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 14, 2021, 03:20:12 pm
I feel like this game has a whole lot of "[player] is [alignment]" with very few reasons provided, and I'm not sure what to do with that.

Welcome to playing with MiX! And apparently faust is being MiX now too. I can't scumread MiX for it... But faust was doing this last game as scum for scum reasons and now he's doing it again.
What is it that i am doing that I was doing as scum?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 14, 2021, 03:21:49 pm
You want to exile me without providing reasons?
Why would I want to provide reasons?

Can you at least address the fact that you JUST USED this tactic as scum in the last game to avoid ever having to give a reason for suspecting Swowl?
Eh, nevermind my question above, I got it now. It's my playstyle. In the last game I had a perfectly fine reason to be voting for Swowl set aside. I wouldn't have done that kind of vote as scum if I couldn't justify it later.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 14, 2021, 03:22:36 pm
I don't see the case for Jim at all. Looking through his ISO... he's done nothing but scumhunt. Is scumhunting supposed to be scummy now?
Can you point me to posts where Jimmmmm scumhunts?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 14, 2021, 03:27:56 pm
You want to exile me without providing reasons?
Why would I want to provide reasons?

Can you at least address the fact that you JUST USED this tactic as scum in the last game to avoid ever having to give a reason for suspecting Swowl?
Eh, nevermind my question above, I got it now. It's my playstyle. In the last game I had a perfectly fine reason to be voting for Swowl set aside. I wouldn't have done that kind of vote as scum if I couldn't justify it later.
This is in my personal QT from that game by the way, I could share that if it helps and if joth thinks it's fine. Otherwise joth can confirm.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 14, 2021, 03:30:39 pm
Anyways, Jimmmmm, you do realise you implied that you want us to not exile you without providing reasons?

"[not exile you] without providing reasons" or "not [exile you without providing reasons]"?
The former.

Are you suggesting that I should argue my own Towniness absent any arguments for my scumminess?
Yes.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 14, 2021, 04:15:43 pm
You want to exile me without providing reasons?
Why would I want to provide reasons?

Can you at least address the fact that you JUST USED this tactic as scum in the last game to avoid ever having to give a reason for suspecting Swowl?
Eh, nevermind my question above, I got it now. It's my playstyle. In the last game I had a perfectly fine reason to be voting for Swowl set aside. I wouldn't have done that kind of vote as scum if I couldn't justify it later.
This is in my personal QT from that game by the way, I could share that if it helps and if joth thinks it's fine. Otherwise joth can confirm.

I don't have a problem with it.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 14, 2021, 05:48:04 pm
I forgot this game existed.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 14, 2021, 05:52:26 pm
I think Westworld was the last time I won as scum: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20403.0

Thanks! I now also have confirmation that you read 200 word long posts.

Which post was this?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 14, 2021, 05:53:44 pm
Oh man, feels good to have town!faust back. Welcome!

this is the case: MiX can only know faust is town for one reason. He's scum.

Last game was probably the first where I scumread faust while I was alive. I think I finally have a good read on him, and if so he's town here. I'm just not feeling unease when looking at his posts.

This seems pretty bold for a D1 faust read.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 14, 2021, 05:55:07 pm
MiX is scum but it's not the exile we want right now.

Amazing.

Vote: Jimmmmm

Vote: Jimmmmm

Is this just some weird buddying?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 14, 2021, 05:55:59 pm
I feel better and better about my EFHW vote.  I am not down with voting for Joth, MiX, LL, or faust.

What about those 4 makes them not votable?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 14, 2021, 05:57:27 pm
Letís

Vote: mathdude

Dude seems a little too eager to have wagons.
And that's scummy why?

Town wants to exile scum. Scum just wants to exile.
But what does that have to do with wanting wagons? Having wagons is the best way of catching scum.

Yes, I'm eager to get wagons. It's better to actually get people closer to X-1 or X-2 and see throughout the 5 or 7 days how people react, rather than having everyone at 1 or 2 votes until the final 6 hours when only the few online get a say in who gets exiled. If we get real wagons on many people throughout D1, then there's a lot more to look back at in later days. That's how we could find scum.

So I guess I agree with faust... hmmm, that makes me nervous. Oh well, it's D1. I can change my mind about him later if needed

While I agree with this wagon stuff, ironically, it doesn't mean much after you have said it, because then people will just think that the first few wagons are unlikely to be exiled, which makes them easily controlled by scum. But also, that's why you have to have some surprise hammers now and again.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 14, 2021, 05:58:37 pm
Maybe it's that I don't know most people's playstyles well enough to "productively scumhunt", but wagon analysis is the best option I have most of the time.

Regarding claims though... with the setup in this game, won't scum just claim VT most of the time? Or maybe counterclaim something near XYLO? So forcing out claims won't work as well as RMM games.

Has anyone ever shown that wagon analysis is helpful? I mean I do it too, but do we know if it is meaningful?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 14, 2021, 05:59:59 pm
I feel better and better about my EFHW vote.  I am not down with voting for Joth, MiX, LL, or faust.

What about those 4 makes them not votable?


I feel like they are probably town. Or I at least need more data to decide.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 14, 2021, 06:00:54 pm
so anyway faust is town & Didds is town & MiX is ??? but he's being pleasant and helpful.

idk, nobody's pinging me overmuch, which makes sense because none of you are terrible at this game.

Vote: EFHW
Wait a minute - are you salty too?
Because there can't be anything in the current game that is scummy.

This doesn't seem like scum!EFHW. Too bold.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 14, 2021, 06:03:09 pm
Ok I know I just said Didds was town, but quick gut check: does town Didds push this hard this early? I feel like Didds isnít usually quite this confident or assertive in her Day 1 reads.

I think I agree with Joth here. I also would argue that EFHW has been defensive because she has an early wagon on her.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 14, 2021, 06:04:39 pm
I feel like I'm seeing a lot more of EFHW D1 than is usual.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 14, 2021, 06:05:24 pm
You want to exile me without providing reasons?
Why would I want to provide reasons?

to convince other people, usually that's how it works
Yes but Jimmmmm's question implies that if we exile him without providing reasons, that would somehow be bad. Even though there is clearly no more convincing necessary if with have to votes to exile him.

It would certainly be bad if he flips town.
Not more than any town exile is bad.

Scum could likely get away easier on a wagon with no explanation.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 14, 2021, 06:08:34 pm
You want to exile me without providing reasons?
Why would I want to provide reasons?

Can you at least address the fact that you JUST USED this tactic as scum in the last game to avoid ever having to give a reason for suspecting Swowl?
Eh, nevermind my question above, I got it now. It's my playstyle. In the last game I had a perfectly fine reason to be voting for Swowl set aside. I wouldn't have done that kind of vote as scum if I couldn't justify it later.

Not sure, but I think it's that the reason would have looked "set-aside", which is maybe why you didn't give it (didn't read that game).
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 14, 2021, 06:09:57 pm
I feel better and better about my EFHW vote.  I am not down with voting for Joth, MiX, LL, or faust.

What about those 4 makes them not votable?


I feel like they are probably town. Or I at least need more data to decide.

But in that same post (the part I snipped) you gave another list of people that you didn't know about. So did you just make a quick decision on them being townie for now? If so, what has made them townie so far?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 14, 2021, 06:46:20 pm
I feel better and better about my EFHW vote.  I am not down with voting for Joth, MiX, LL, or faust.

What about those 4 makes them not votable?

I feel like they are probably town. Or I at least need more data to decide.

But in that same post (the part I snipped) you gave another list of people that you didn't know about. So did you just make a quick decision on them being townie for now? If so, what has made them townie so far?

EhÖitís mostly gut reads. I thought Jothís ďHi Everybody!Ē line was nice, not scummy. Most of us just finished the game Joth modded so he was in it, but he didnít get to play. MiX is being town Mix. When heís scum heís more erratic. LL seems like his usual towny self. At the time I found faust towny mostly because he was asking towny questions. In the day since I wrote that, though, heís become more cagey and less forthcoming. Iguana on the other hand has moved up in towniness. So, I think Iíd  replace faust with iguana now.  Jimmm gave me a cookie. I like cookies. Not sure itís town, but Iím here for the cookie, for sure.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: Dylan32 on September 14, 2021, 07:02:20 pm
White paused for a moment to look out the window and noticed that somehow their course had drifted straight into an asteroid field! They jumped on the weapons and started blasting the asteroids out of the sky, while Cyan jumped in the pilot's seat and charted a new course. At the back of the ship, Lime Green wondered where everyone was, so they sat down and watched the security cameras for a bit.

Vote Count 1.3

iguanaiguana (1): 2.71828.....
EFHW (4): WestCoastDidds, iguanaiguana, jotheonah, Jimmmmm
Jimmmmm (3): faust, MiX, mathdude
faust (1): LaLight

Not Voting (3): Swowl, EFHW, gkrieg13

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to exile. Day 1 ends September 18, 2021, 03:00:00 pm
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 14, 2021, 08:20:51 pm
You want to exile me without providing reasons?
Why would I want to provide reasons?

Can you at least address the fact that you JUST USED this tactic as scum in the last game to avoid ever having to give a reason for suspecting Swowl?
Eh, nevermind my question above, I got it now. It's my playstyle. In the last game I had a perfectly fine reason to be voting for Swowl set aside. I wouldn't have done that kind of vote as scum if I couldn't justify it later.

So can you explain what the supposed pro town reason of routinely hiding the reasons for your D1 votes is? Can you point to any recent town game where you've done this?

When I used to play with you, I have no memory that you withheld reasoning like this D1.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 14, 2021, 08:24:16 pm
Can someone articulate why the Jimmmmm wagon?

Because you're questioning it. That puts the chance out there that the two of you are partners.

For me personally finding partner interactions is too hard without a single flip and it's a sort of folly to try. That sort of things lends itself to confirmation bias easily.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 14, 2021, 08:27:45 pm
I think Westworld was the last time I won as scum: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20403.0

Thanks! I now also have confirmation that you read 200 word long posts.

Which post was this?

The post he quoted. It was a sort of a joke because I made a longish post and asked Joth a question in it randomly. My thought was that a careless person wouldn't even see the question directed to them.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 14, 2021, 08:41:39 pm
I don't see the case for Jim at all. Looking through his ISO... he's done nothing but scumhunt. Is scumhunting supposed to be scummy now?
Can you point me to posts where Jimmmmm scumhunts?

Sure.

I suspect MiX and faust are voting on me in the hopes that Iíll overreact to a small wagon which is one of my primary scum tells. Itís a good plan, town points all around.

Too careful an (effectively) first post in response to meaningless RVS votes.

Vote: joth

Given that this was post #81, to me it was the most scumhunting post that had been made so far in the game. It struck me as someone who looked at what had been posted with seriousness and wanted to get out of RVS and into looking for possible scumtells already.

I feel like this game has a whole lot of "[player] is [alignment]" with very few reasons provided, and I'm not sure what to do with that.

This shows someone looking for scum and not able to find any.

Didds, have a cookie.

Vote: EFHW

Here, Jim changed his mind and was convinced to vote EFHW based on a case by WCD. I guess what made this look like scumhunting to me is that he didn't vote EFHW (who was already a sort of alternative wagon to him) until WCD gave reasons, and implies that the reasons convinced him. As scum, I think maybe he would have already been voting EFHW before WCD made the case. So, it is sheeping, but it looks like sheeping because he's looking for scum.

Could he be scum just fabricating this? Sure. Anyone could be still. But on D1 I don't see the point to punish a player for scumhunting unless there is a good argument that they really look like scum themselves. So I think Jim is a bad vote.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 14, 2021, 09:46:33 pm

Here, Jim changed his mind and was convinced to vote EFHW based on a case by WCD. I guess what made this look like scumhunting to me is that he didn't vote EFHW (who was already a sort of alternative wagon to him) until WCD gave reasons, and implies that the reasons convinced him. As scum, I think maybe he would have already been voting EFHW before WCD made the case. So, it is sheeping, but it looks like sheeping because he's looking for scum.

Could he be scum just fabricating this? Sure. Anyone could be still. But on D1 I don't see the point to punish a player for scumhunting unless there is a good argument that they really look like scum themselves. So I think Jim is a bad vote.
.

On the other hand, Jimmmmm is being more active than usual and you could say that he used the cover provided by Didds' case to join the wagon. I like seeing the participation, so I'm sorry to discourage it, but vote: Jimmmmm.

I also want to clarify that this:
Quote
Because there can't be anything in the current game that is scummy.
was a joke. I accidentally hit post before I could add an emoji :P
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 14, 2021, 09:53:39 pm
On the other hand, Jimmmmm is being more active than usual and you could say that he used the cover provided by Didds' case to join the wagon. I like seeing the participation, so I'm sorry to discourage it, but vote: Jimmmmm.

Thanks for the reason!

It's tough when you have a reputation for inactivity. I'd like to get away from it, and it's not really worth playing if I'm not going to be actively involved in the game, but any attempt to be more active is inevitably going to be seen as scummy. I'm certainly not going to limit my posting in order to avoid suspicion.

If it helps, I'm stuck at home due to lockdown, so I have more time on my hands than I would otherwise have.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 14, 2021, 10:10:24 pm

This was true before, but not now: what do you think about math's answer to your question?

Also I think it's obvious joth voted you because you were a wagon.
math, were you seriously pushing MiX, or was that more RVS?
If LL hadn't joined the vote already, I would have already moved on. But since there were 2 votes, I thought I'd see if anyone else was interested in joining too.

So maybe RVS? But
I donít know if I believe in RVS anymore.
Ditto?

MiX wanted my response to this. I don't play this way, but I know some people do. Meaning being influenced by existing wagons in placing a vote. Maybe that's why joth just voted me. But given that math exhorted others to vote MiX, I'd say this is not a satisfactory answer. I don't see how it can be RVS since he had reasons. Not random.
Itís perception, so I think itís fair for other people not to see it.

I see it as defensive because it begins with a deflection on the topic (MiX wanted an answer), then a shrug (I donít play this way but some people do), then a deflection (maybe thatís what Joth vote was).

This is decent textual analysis, but it is a misinterpretation. I think I introduced it the way I did because MiX's question wasn't in the quote and I wanted it to be clear that I was responding to him. Each of those comments was in response to MiX's previous post, acknowledging what he said about joth's vote and also noticing that math gave a similar reason. I then went on to criticize math's response. I kind of tunneled math last game (oh wait, I was scum), so I held back on voting for the moment.

Then I provided evidence for my observation:
Come on people. MiX is a good wagon.

Here is the exhorting I mentioned in my last post.

I'm still seriously considering voting math, but I'm learning that he can be kind of awkward and that could explain the confusion I have about is he joking or is he serious.

I really wasn't fussed about the two votes on me. It's pretty much par for the course after winning as scum in the game just finished.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 14, 2021, 10:17:08 pm

I feel like I should clarify some of this.

The joth vote was a tiny scum ping which was big enough to warrant a first vote. You could call it semi-RVS.

#158 was really less about scumhunting and more about trying to engage with the game and not knowing how to. The main thing I want out of a Day 1 is to keep up and be engaged in discussions. "[player] is [alignmenty] for [reasons]" is far more helpful to that end than simply "[player] is [alignment]". It's also worth noting that I was not talking about voting without reason, rather making statements with some degree of apparent certainty.

The vote on EFHW was a "reward" for WCD giving reasons for a read. I did not consider the state of wagons at the time.

PPE
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 15, 2021, 12:51:09 am
Having done some re-reading I'm less than convinced about the EFHW wagon and will probably move my vote soon.

Didds, do you think you could be tunneling EFHW?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 15, 2021, 01:52:30 am
Maybe it's that I don't know most people's playstyles well enough to "productively scumhunt", but wagon analysis is the best option I have most of the time.

Regarding claims though... with the setup in this game, won't scum just claim VT most of the time? Or maybe counterclaim something near XYLO? So forcing out claims won't work as well as RMM games.

Has anyone ever shown that wagon analysis is helpful? I mean I do it too, but do we know if it is meaningful?
There is a significant lack of research on mafia game theory unfortunately.

Scum could likely get away easier on a wagon with no explanation.
No they couldn't. It would in fact be harder for them to get away with that. If reasons were provided, then scum can just say "I agreed with the reasons given by gkrieg". If no reasons were provided, then they have to come up with convincing reasons themselves.

So can you explain what the supposed pro town reason of routinely hiding the reasons for your D1 votes is?
Yes, sure. The first reason is it makes it harder for scum to hide. As explained in my answer to gkrieg above, having reasons makes it easy for scum to engage with the case - they just choose to agree or disagree with the reasons. If reasons are not given then they have to actively come up with a fake read without the guide of reading other player's reads. That is harder and thus playing that way makes it easier to catch scum.

Secondly, the person who is being wagoned cannot just argue their townieness by arguing against the reasons. It's easy, especially on D1, to pick apart any reasons given for any wagon. It is harder to argue your own townieness. Thus the latter gives better insight into their alignment.

Thirdly, if I do not give reasons, I can vote someone for pressure and have them not know that is why, which makes the pressure more effective. However if I give reasons for any "proper" vote, then it will be obvious when a vote is just for pressure.

Finally, reasons are often not much more than a confirmation-biased reread of someone you already gut-read as scum. If you type them out you only lean more into that confirmation bias. And you've created a position now that you will feel that you need to defend, which psychologically makes it even harder to remain open and fight the bias.

Can you point to any recent town game where you've done this?
You can probably look at any recent game where I've been town. However I replaced out early from Memento and Dwarves was bastard, so the best reasource is probably M134. I have a bunch of unexplained votes there.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 15, 2021, 02:31:08 am
You're basically saying "Let's not play the game so it makes it harder for scum to play the game". When everyone's a suspect, there's no way to force scum to give their opinions before Town, and trying to do so can only give scum a free pass to not contribute. What you're doing may serve you as an individual across multiple games, but it certainly doesn't serve the Town.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 15, 2021, 02:42:51 am
What definitely does not serve town is debating which playstyles are and aren't helpful to town instead of scumhunting.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 15, 2021, 02:46:16 am
What definitely does not serve town is debating which playstyles are and aren't helpful to town instead of scumhunting.

For sure. And look at the rabbit-hole you're leading us down.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 15, 2021, 02:46:51 am
In fact, Vote: faust. Scum or anti-Town, you don't get a free pass just because you want one.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 15, 2021, 02:55:12 am
Hi Everybody!

What meaningful scumtells do you infer from this post? Quacks like RVS to me.

TBH though, the interactions before and after this rang a little scummy to me. So my vote wasn't entirely without reason. Also, creating interaction, seeing who defends and who jumps on wagon is helpful too.

What interactions rang scummy? You say "before and after" this - are you quoting the post you didn't find scummy?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 15, 2021, 03:10:35 am
Having done some re-reading I'm less than convinced about the EFHW wagon and will probably move my vote soon.

Didds, do you think you could be tunneling EFHW?

Oh, yes. That definitely happensÖ she even alluded to it earlier. And thereís some residual suspicion from the last game about both her and faust.  Iím not feeling rushed to move my vote at the moment since weíre only what? halfway through D1? My weeks are front loaded so Iím underwater at work now (thus why Iím up at 2am) but am out from under starting on Thursday. Plus watching her reactions and the wagon generally is really helpful to me.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 15, 2021, 03:21:28 am
What definitely does not serve town is debating which playstyles are and aren't helpful to town instead of scumhunting.

For sure. And look at the rabbit-hole you're leading us down.
I am leading us down? I was merely answering iguana's question, and iguana seems to think that my answer will help him read me better, so that's helpful for the game. You responded with a paragraph that does nothing to with the current game and doesn't help anyone in any way.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 15, 2021, 03:22:13 am
What definitely does not serve town is debating which playstyles are and aren't helpful to town instead of scumhunting.

For sure. And look at the rabbit-hole you're leading us down.
I am leading us down? I was merely answering iguana's question, and iguana seems to think that my answer will help him read me better, so that's helpful for the game. You responded with a paragraph that does nothing to with for the current game and doesn't help anyone in any way.
EBWOP
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 15, 2021, 03:24:22 am
In fact, Vote: faust. Scum or anti-Town, you don't get a free pass just because you want one.
Oh yeah, and now a policy vote! I'm sure that is going to move the game forward.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 15, 2021, 03:26:43 am
I am leading us down?

Yep. You have the most posts and zero helpful content. The only conclusion one can come to trying to analyse your game is "Why is he refusing to contribute?" So we either have to go ahead and give you that free pass, or argue with you about how anti-Town you're being.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 15, 2021, 03:29:25 am
I am leading us down?

Yep. You have the most posts and zero helpful content. The only conclusion one can come to trying to analyse your game is "Why is he refusing to contribute?" So we either have to go ahead and give you that free pass, or argue with you about how anti-Town you're being.
In the very post that you quoted I have argued why what I posted was helpful content. If you disagree (which you do by saying that none of my content was helpful) then you need to argue against that.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 15, 2021, 03:31:16 am
And so on down the rabbit-hole.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 15, 2021, 03:34:13 am
Here is a selection of helpfup content. Please explain how the content wasn't helpful in each instance.
Vote: joth
Oh man, feels good to have town!faust back. Welcome!
Don't you think you can buddy me!
I did not realize all the Joth voters had already unvoted.

I also don't like voting MiX because of all the tryhard.

Vote: EFHW because of saltiness is something I can get behind.

You don't like tryhard, but saltiness is okay?
Vote: iguana
Let's try a better wagon here?
I was just about ready to vote MiX, and now you leave?
I suspect MiX and faust are voting on me in the hopes that Iíll overreact to a small wagon which is one of my primary scum tells. Itís a good plan, town points all around.

Too careful an (effectively) first post in response to meaningless RVS votes.

Vote: joth
Tsk, I don't do RVS. I get offended when people label my votes as RVS, and more so if they label them as meaningless.
Hi Everybody!

What meaningful scumtells do you infer from this post? Quacks like RVS to me.
It's important to also read what is not said.
Letís

Vote: mathdude

Dude seems a little too eager to have wagons.
And that's scummy why?
...okay, I'm going to stop here, you get my point I believe.

PPE: You are conflating two things there. It is helpful for me to argue my townieness. You claim it is helpful for you to give reasons for your vote, so you'd have to think it good to do that. The rabbit hole I was complaining about is useless meta talk about playstyles.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 15, 2021, 03:34:40 am
On the other hand, Jimmmmm is being more active than usual and you could say that he used the cover provided by Didds' case to join the wagon. I like seeing the participation, so I'm sorry to discourage it, but vote: Jimmmmm.

Thanks for the reason!

It's tough when you have a reputation for inactivity. I'd like to get away from it, and it's not really worth playing if I'm not going to be actively involved in the game, but any attempt to be more active is inevitably going to be seen as scummy. I'm certainly not going to limit my posting in order to avoid suspicion.

If it helps, I'm stuck at home due to lockdown, so I have more time on my hands than I would otherwise have.

Unvote
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 15, 2021, 03:39:45 am
What definitely does not serve town is debating which playstyles are and aren't helpful to town instead of scumhunting.

For sure. And look at the rabbit-hole you're leading us down.
I am leading us down? I was merely answering iguana's question, and iguana seems to think that my answer will help him read me better, so that's helpful for the game. You responded with a paragraph that does nothing to with the current game and doesn't help anyone in any way.

I don't know about you, faust, but this post tells me you're both town.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 15, 2021, 03:41:35 am
Vote: joth

Unexplained vote. Unhelpful.


Oh man, feels good to have town!faust back. Welcome!
Don't you think you can buddy me!

Sounds jokey to me. Are you suggesting this is an actual reason for a legitimate scumread on MiX?


I did not realize all the Joth voters had already unvoted.

I also don't like voting MiX because of all the tryhard.

Vote: EFHW because of saltiness is something I can get behind.

You don't like tryhard, but saltiness is okay?
Vote: iguana
Let's try a better wagon here?
I was just about ready to vote MiX, and now you leave?

Unexplained vote that never happened. If I was to infer a reason it would simply be to join a wagon.


I suspect MiX and faust are voting on me in the hopes that Iíll overreact to a small wagon which is one of my primary scum tells. Itís a good plan, town points all around.

Too careful an (effectively) first post in response to meaningless RVS votes.

Vote: joth
Tsk, I don't do RVS. I get offended when people label my votes as RVS, and more so if they label them as meaningless.

You get offended at an RVS comment, but make no effort to justify it not being RVS or meaningless.


Hi Everybody!

What meaningful scumtells do you infer from this post? Quacks like RVS to me.
It's important to also read what is not said.

Cryptic and unhelpful.


Letís

Vote: mathdude

Dude seems a little too eager to have wagons.
And that's scummy why?

Question about wagon theory. The only thing we can infer is that you think mathdude's attitude to wagons is NAI, which isn't helpful.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 15, 2021, 03:44:57 am
What definitely does not serve town is debating which playstyles are and aren't helpful to town instead of scumhunting.

For sure. And look at the rabbit-hole you're leading us down.
I am leading us down? I was merely answering iguana's question, and iguana seems to think that my answer will help him read me better, so that's helpful for the game. You responded with a paragraph that does nothing to with the current game and doesn't help anyone in any way.

I don't know about you, faust, but this post tells me you're both town.
I don't think much can be gleaned from this debate in terms of alignment tells. It's very easy for scum to engage in meta discussions because these don't have to be faked, they can talk about their sincere beliefs and generate interactions from that. On the other hand, "someone is wrong on the internet" is also a phenomenon that can get townies riled up and lead to them engaging in such discussions.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on September 15, 2021, 03:45:12 am
What definitely does not serve town is debating which playstyles are and aren't helpful to town instead of scumhunting.

you do long-term.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 15, 2021, 03:49:21 am
I don't think much can be gleaned from this debate in terms of alignment tells. It's very easy for scum to engage in meta discussions because these don't have to be faked, they can talk about their sincere beliefs and generate interactions from that. On the other hand, "someone is wrong on the internet" is also a phenomenon that can get townies riled up and lead to them engaging in such discussions.

And by refusing to talk about your reads, you're limiting discussion about you to this.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 15, 2021, 03:52:01 am
What definitely does not serve town is debating which playstyles are and aren't helpful to town instead of scumhunting.

you do long-term.
I am focused on winning this game. If you want to have that discussion we can make a separate thread for it once this game is over.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 15, 2021, 03:57:30 am
What definitely does not serve town is debating which playstyles are and aren't helpful to town instead of scumhunting.

you do long-term.

What are you implying here?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 15, 2021, 03:58:29 am
I don't think much can be gleaned from this debate in terms of alignment tells. It's very easy for scum to engage in meta discussions because these don't have to be faked, they can talk about their sincere beliefs and generate interactions from that. On the other hand, "someone is wrong on the internet" is also a phenomenon that can get townies riled up and lead to them engaging in such discussions.

And by refusing to talk about your reads, you're limiting discussion about you to this.
I'm not refusing to talk about my reads though. My votes are there, I tend to vote for my scumreads. Sometimes I even state my reads on players I am not currently voting for. You are free to use this information to infer my alignment. I am not sure how my giving reasons for every vote would help you in that process.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 15, 2021, 03:59:42 am
I am disappointed in you, MiX. Two people having a drawn-out emotional discussion and then a third player going "I think this is TvT" is such a meme. I expected better.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 15, 2021, 04:01:21 am
I'm not refusing to talk about my reads though.

Alright cool. So why the vote on me? Why do you think MiX is scum? Why did you vote for joth and iguana, and why change your mind? Would you go back to them, and why or why not? Any other reads, and how did you come to them?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 15, 2021, 04:04:33 am
I am disappointed in you, MiX. Two people having a drawn-out emotional discussion and then a third player going "I think this is TvT" is such a meme. I expected better.

It's a meme for a reason. I think your particular way of reacting to Jimmmmm makes him town. And of course, it makes you town too.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 15, 2021, 04:05:17 am
I'm not refusing to talk about my reads though.

Alright cool. So why the vote on me? Why do you think MiX is scum? Why did you vote for joth and iguana, and why change your mind? Would you go back to them, and why or why not? Any other reads, and how did you come to them?

Can you also answer this question?

Actually, can someone of the scum alignment answer this question too?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 15, 2021, 04:09:38 am
I am disappointed in you, MiX. Two people having a drawn-out emotional discussion and then a third player going "I think this is TvT" is such a meme. I expected better.

It's a meme for a reason. I think your particular way of reacting to Jimmmmm makes him town. And of course, it makes you town too.
In my experience the statement is about as likely to be correct as random chance once you restrict to only instances where townies say it.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 15, 2021, 04:11:31 am
Also, wait - the way I reacted to Jimmmmm makes him town? How does that make sense?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 15, 2021, 04:14:33 am
I am disappointed in you, MiX. Two people having a drawn-out emotional discussion and then a third player going "I think this is TvT" is such a meme. I expected better.

It's a meme for a reason. I think your particular way of reacting to Jimmmmm makes him town. And of course, it makes you town too.
In my experience the statement is about as likely to be correct as random chance once you restrict to only instances where townies say it.

It's not like I have evidence saying otherwise. But I don't really like how there's only been 2 wagons this entire day, and at least one of them seems to be entirely at random.

Also, wait - the way I reacted to Jimmmmm makes him town? How does that make sense?

The things he said that made you react like that, and the reaction itself, tells me that you subconsciously think that he's being honest and genuine.

It's probably the way you referred to his paragraph of useless things, it sounded like something only town can do (the paragraph, that is).
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 15, 2021, 04:15:52 am
And uh I was also townreading Jimmmmm before this recent discussion.

Anyway, it would be cool if we had other wagons, or maybe even just collapse on EFHW. I'll reread the game in a few hours and decide then.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 15, 2021, 04:16:16 am
I'm not refusing to talk about my reads though.

Alright cool. So why the vote on me? Why do you think MiX is scum? Why did you vote for joth and iguana, and why change your mind? Would you go back to them, and why or why not? Any other reads, and how did you come to them?
I was about to write a snarky response, but it's no use escalating this. I do not deny that there are things that I refuse to talk about. I am sure that there are things that you refuse to talk about, too, otherwise you would tell me your role now. The only difference is where we draw the line. i am willing to discuss some things when I feel it is beneficial to discuss them. Someone I think is scum wanting to know is not grounds for me to change my mind though.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 15, 2021, 04:17:25 am
Alright so which of your reads are you willing to discuss?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 15, 2021, 04:19:12 am
The things he said that made you react like that, and the reaction itself, tells me that you subconsciously think that he's being honest and genuine.
What does is matter what I think?

Also, the fact that scum can be honest and genuine about these things was like, the entire point i tried to make earlier.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on September 15, 2021, 04:20:43 am
What definitely does not serve town is debating which playstyles are and aren't helpful to town instead of scumhunting.

you do long-term.

What are you implying here?

that a discussion of different playstyles and eventual consensus gonna help minimize these kinds of conversations in the future and maybe playing the game instead of "going down that rabbit hole"
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 15, 2021, 04:22:05 am
Alright so which of your reads are you willing to discuss?
Currently? The ones I have discussed. I will entertain talking about reads on other people once they become relevant to the flow of the game.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on September 15, 2021, 04:22:17 am
I am disappointed in you, MiX. Two people having a drawn-out emotional discussion and then a third player going "I think this is TvT" is such a meme. I expected better.

It's a meme for a reason. I think your particular way of reacting to Jimmmmm makes him town. And of course, it makes you town too.

I don't understand how so. I think it's def not scum v scum, but one of them may as well be. I think faust.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on September 15, 2021, 04:22:39 am
Also, wait - the way I reacted to Jimmmmm makes him town? How does that make sense?

yeah, this
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 15, 2021, 04:23:06 am
What definitely does not serve town is debating which playstyles are and aren't helpful to town instead of scumhunting.

you do long-term.

What are you implying here?

that a discussion of different playstyles and eventual consensus gonna help minimize these kinds of conversations in the future and maybe playing the game instead of "going down that rabbit hole"
I have little faith in reaching a consensus. Also, the fact that different people have different playstyles is a plus in my book, I wouldn't want to change that.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on September 15, 2021, 04:29:18 am
What definitely does not serve town is debating which playstyles are and aren't helpful to town instead of scumhunting.

you do long-term.

What are you implying here?

that a discussion of different playstyles and eventual consensus gonna help minimize these kinds of conversations in the future and maybe playing the game instead of "going down that rabbit hole"
I have little faith in reaching a consensus. Also, the fact that different people have different playstyles is a plus in my book, I wouldn't want to change that.

yeah, it's good but only when these playstyles don't clash cluttering the thread.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 15, 2021, 04:31:15 am
Anyways, Jimmmmm, you do realise you implied that you want us to not exile you without providing reasons?

I don't like this. vote: faust
I think I overlooked this post in all the conundrum. What did you not like, LaLight?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 15, 2021, 05:04:49 am
Alright so which of your reads are you willing to discuss?
Currently? The ones I have discussed. I will entertain talking about reads on other people once they become relevant to the flow of the game.

So none of them. This is you refusing to to talk about your reads.

Alright let's try this. Put yourself in my position. I want to try to get a read on you, and not from punctuation in posts or meta from games I wasn't involved in. How do I do that? How would you get a read on someone based purely on who they have voted for? (And not just from the alignment or perceived alignment of the votees - "they're voting for Town so they must be scum" doesn't cut it.)
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 15, 2021, 05:06:55 am
Alright so which of your reads are you willing to discuss?
Currently? The ones I have discussed. I will entertain talking about reads on other people once they become relevant to the flow of the game.

So none of them. This is you refusing to to talk about your reads.

Alright let's try this. Put yourself in my position. I want to try to get a read on you, and not from punctuation in posts or meta from games I wasn't involved in. How do I do that? How would you get a read on someone based purely on who they have voted for? (And not just from the alignment or perceived alignment of the votees - "they're voting for Town so they must be scum" doesn't cut it.)

Well, if they're voting scum, they're probably town.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 15, 2021, 05:08:05 am
Yeah that doesn't cut it either.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 15, 2021, 05:08:47 am
Alright so which of your reads are you willing to discuss?
Currently? The ones I have discussed. I will entertain talking about reads on other people once they become relevant to the flow of the game.

So none of them. This is you refusing to to talk about your reads.

Alright let's try this. Put yourself in my position. I want to try to get a read on you, and not from punctuation in posts or meta from games I wasn't involved in. How do I do that? How would you get a read on someone based purely on who they have voted for? (And not just from the alignment or perceived alignment of the votees - "they're voting for Town so they must be scum" doesn't cut it.)
Again, I am not willing to engage in discussion about playstyles. How you get your reads is your business. I am putting enough content out there to be read.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on September 15, 2021, 05:14:32 am
Anyways, Jimmmmm, you do realise you implied that you want us to not exile you without providing reasons?

I don't like this. vote: faust
I think I overlooked this post in all the conundrum. What did you not like, LaLight?

This actually looked like a sarcasm, which would make even more posts appear that distract people (which actually happened!)
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 15, 2021, 05:15:30 am
Okay faust, what are the reasons we should believe you're Town?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 15, 2021, 05:23:47 am
Okay faust, what are the reasons we should believe you're Town?
Well, I have done townie things. I think I am more contrarian when I am town, and thus often attract more votes as town than I do as scum, and I think you can see that in my play.

The three players I have voted for (joth, iguana, Jimmmmm) have all since ended up on the EFHW wagon, so unless you think that is completely town-driven, I have already voted for scum. If you do think that the EFHW wagon is completely town-driven, then it is probably beneficial to join that wagon rather than start a new one on me.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 15, 2021, 05:27:41 am
Anyways, Jimmmmm, you do realise you implied that you want us to not exile you without providing reasons?

I don't like this. vote: faust
I think I overlooked this post in all the conundrum. What did you not like, LaLight?

This actually looked like a sarcasm, which would make even more posts appear that distract people (which actually happened!)
I was being sarcastic, but I also genuinely wanted Jimmmmm to explain why he is town, something that he by the way has refused to do so far.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 15, 2021, 05:30:53 am
Oh also if I was scum I would be more accepting of MiX and his townread on me.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 15, 2021, 05:34:21 am
I was being sarcastic, but I also genuinely wanted Jimmmmm to explain why he is town, something that he by the way has refused to do so far.

If you have a case against me I'm happy to engage with it, but I'm not going to spend time defending myself against a non-case.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mathdude on September 15, 2021, 07:52:26 am
Ok, I'm going to respond to one question directed at me, then give my 2 cents on the 2 pages of excessive banter while trying not to extend the discussion in a meaningless way... good luck, self!

Hi Everybody!

What meaningful scumtells do you infer from this post? Quacks like RVS to me.

TBH though, the interactions before and after this rang a little scummy to me. So my vote wasn't entirely without reason. Also, creating interaction, seeing who defends and who jumps on wagon is helpful too.

What interactions rang scummy? You say "before and after" this - are you quoting the post you didn't find scummy?

Specifically, the quoted post felt artificial. Then looking at the post he quoted, and the 2 or 3 that followed, it felt to me like Jimmmmm was trying to create interaction ... I don't know, it just didn't feel like genuine town posting to me.  (No, don't ask me what town posting feels like... it was just my gut feel.)
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 15, 2021, 08:03:37 am
What definitely does not serve town is debating which playstyles are and aren't helpful to town instead of scumhunting.

you do long-term.

What are you implying here?

that a discussion of different playstyles and eventual consensus gonna help minimize these kinds of conversations in the future and maybe playing the game instead of "going down that rabbit hole"
This is a continuation of discussion from the Oz game. I am really happy to see faust's explanation of why he does naked votes.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on September 15, 2021, 08:11:47 am
Oh also if I was scum I would be more accepting of MiX and his townread on me.

the fact that you know your meta makes all those things NAI
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on September 15, 2021, 08:12:34 am
Oh also if I was scum I would be more accepting of MiX and his townread on me.

the fact that you know your meta makes all those things NAI

and this is actually why I think all the "give me reasons you're town" questions are meaningless unless there's something like "I helped exile two scum already"
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mathdude on September 15, 2021, 08:14:48 am
You're basically saying "Let's not play the game so it makes it harder for scum to play the game". When everyone's a suspect, there's no way to force scum to give their opinions before Town, and trying to do so can only give scum a free pass to not contribute. What you're doing may serve you as an individual across multiple games, but it certainly doesn't serve the Town.

This is sort of my take on the whole faust opinion of providing naked votes.

If faust is town, it helps him get better reads as others reply, respond, react, and interact. If people get defensive, or ignore things, or jump on a wagon, or infer reasons or add reasons from their own confirmation bias, it can tell him things, since he knows what reasons he started things for.

But if faust is scum, it allows him to put "reads" on people without giving reasons, it lets him test where others want to start wagons, let's him look involved (shows up in vote counts) without actually saying much, and generally seem "town" (in his opinion) because he's following his meta.

He's got (and/or is building) a meta that lets him completely fly under the radar when he is scum because it doesn't require faking anything.

The problem with this whole thing is that it seems helpful to him, from his perspective, no matter his alignment. But it does nothing to make the rest of us believe he's town because it's just as easy for him to claim that he's doing the same thing he always does, whether town or scum. So the responses to his blind votes don't mean anything to us since we don't know why he initially posted it.

So overall, faust's strategy is good for him, bad for the rest of us. The biggest problem is that he could be genuinely trying to be helpful town, but just as easily could be scum easily hiding behind his D1 meta.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 15, 2021, 08:16:13 am
Oh also if I was scum I would be more accepting of MiX and his townread on me.

the fact that you know your meta makes all those things NAI

and this is actually why I think all the "give me reasons you're town" questions are meaningless unless there's something like "I helped exile two scum already"

This.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mathdude on September 15, 2021, 08:31:32 am
Finally, reasons are often not much more than a confirmation-biased reread of someone you already gut-read as scum. If you type them out you only lean more into that confirmation bias. And you've created a position now that you will feel that you need to defend, which psychologically makes it even harder to remain open and fight the bias.

This is probably the only part of faust's arguments that I think is helpful. I believe I have fallen victim to this many times. When I start finding someone scummy, I often find it very hard to look at them objectively again. I just find more things that I think are scummy. And it gets worse if I start digging in and posting reasons for my scum read on them.

But saying that, I don't agree that posting a naked vote is any more helpful. Even if I don't post reasons, I still likely have reasons (sometimes just gut feel), and I'm still susceptible to the confirmation bias. Better to just be aware of the bias, and work to look around it (similar to how I almost always find MiX scummy D1, but that doesn't mean I tunnel him D1 every game... I keep a more open mind).
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 15, 2021, 08:46:28 am
You're basically saying "Let's not play the game so it makes it harder for scum to play the game". When everyone's a suspect, there's no way to force scum to give their opinions before Town, and trying to do so can only give scum a free pass to not contribute. What you're doing may serve you as an individual across multiple games, but it certainly doesn't serve the Town.

This is sort of my take on the whole faust opinion of providing naked votes.

If faust is town, it helps him get better reads as others reply, respond, react, and interact. If people get defensive, or ignore things, or jump on a wagon, or infer reasons or add reasons from their own confirmation bias, it can tell him things, since he knows what reasons he started things for.

But if faust is scum, it allows him to put "reads" on people without giving reasons, it lets him test where others want to start wagons, let's him look involved (shows up in vote counts) without actually saying much, and generally seem "town" (in his opinion) because he's following his meta.

He's got (and/or is building) a meta that lets him completely fly under the radar when he is scum because it doesn't require faking anything.

The problem with this whole thing is that it seems helpful to him, from his perspective, no matter his alignment. But it does nothing to make the rest of us believe he's town because it's just as easy for him to claim that he's doing the same thing he always does, whether town or scum. So the responses to his blind votes don't mean anything to us since we don't know why he initially posted it.

So overall, faust's strategy is good for him, bad for the rest of us. The biggest problem is that he could be genuinely trying to be helpful town, but just as easily could be scum easily hiding behind his D1 meta.

He waa obviously scum last game. There are key differences in town!faust and scum!faust that makes this strategy pro-town.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 15, 2021, 08:48:02 am
You should just have a playstyle as town that maximizes scum flips. Who cares if it's easy to fake if you win your town games? That just means you always win.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 15, 2021, 08:49:34 am
Prod: e
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 15, 2021, 08:56:34 am
You guys are all wrong. That exchange was extremely enlightening. Faust is town and Jimmmmm is scum.

Vote: Jimmmmm
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 15, 2021, 08:59:41 am
faust is arguing in a way that seems surprisingly genuine and charitable, especially for him. Like heís really trying in good faith to get past an argument he finds unproductive.

Jimmmmm is trying to have the meta-argument while also gently implying faust is scum wherever possible. The vote was just a little over the top. Thinly veiled OMGUS.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 15, 2021, 09:09:17 am
You guys are all wrong. That exchange was extremely enlightening. Faust is town and Jimmmmm is scum.

Vote: Jimmmmm

Lol.

Vote: joth

Vote: e cause you're partners.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 15, 2021, 09:13:46 am
Oh also if I was scum I would be more accepting of MiX and his townread on me.

the fact that you know your meta makes all those things NAI
Oh look you conveniently ignored my other post which contains stuff that is not meta-based!

I also think "you know meta so none of this is worth anything" takes are a bit simplistic. My town meta is to get killed early or get exiled later on; doesn't mean it makes sense for scum!me to replicate that. Scum can focus all their energy on following their town meta and probably do a pretty good job at it; but that is not how scum wins. They need to do something different because they need to push for town exiles, protect their partners etc. Otherwise they just fly under the radar, letting town do their thing, until they are PoE'd and lose.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 15, 2021, 09:21:46 am
trying not to extend the discussion in a meaningless way... good luck, self!
I'm afraid you failed, unfortunately.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 15, 2021, 09:31:40 am
faust is arguing in a way that seems surprisingly genuine and charitable, especially for him.
...thanks?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 15, 2021, 09:40:14 am
faust is arguing in a way that seems surprisingly genuine and charitable, especially for him.
...thanks?
No, thank you.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 15, 2021, 09:40:30 am
You guys are all wrong. That exchange was extremely enlightening. Faust is town and Jimmmmm is scum.

Vote: Jimmmmm

Lol.

Vote: joth

Vote: e cause you're partners.

:P
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 15, 2021, 09:43:21 am
faust is arguing in a way that seems surprisingly genuine and charitable, especially for him. Like heís really trying in good faith to get past an argument he finds unproductive.

Jimmmmm is trying to have the meta-argument while also gently implying faust is scum wherever possible. The vote was just a little over the top. Thinly veiled OMGUS.

OMGUS strikes me as a lazy argument. I have no reason to care that faust is voting for me; his vote doesn't mean anything until the Day ends or he decides to start playing the game. I would have preferred to avoid the meta argument entirely, but sadly there's nothing else to talk about when it comes to faust's game.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 15, 2021, 10:45:30 am
OMGUS is (almost) never a tactical decision. It's a way of expressing frustration. Granted, town can also get frustrated with town (or scum) but that usually happens when someone is being annoying or intransigent and I just don't see faust doing that. He's making good, cogent points in response to your criticism of caseless voting. So your frustration, expressed through an OMGUS vote, reads to me as scummy frustration at not being able to make progress dissolving a day one wagon on you.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 15, 2021, 10:50:42 am
If my main concern was dissolving a wagon on me, coming out against faust would not be the way to do that.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 15, 2021, 11:02:00 am
Okay faust, what are the reasons we should believe you're Town?
Well, I have done townie things. I think I am more contrarian when I am town, and thus often attract more votes as town than I do as scum, and I think you can see that in my play.

The three players I have voted for (joth, iguana, Jimmmmm) have all since ended up on the EFHW wagon, so unless you think that is completely town-driven, I have already voted for scum. If you do think that the EFHW wagon is completely town-driven, then it is probably beneficial to join that wagon rather than start a new one on me.

Ugh. You arenít supposed to know this about yourself.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 15, 2021, 11:28:44 am

Okay faust, what are the reasons we should believe you're Town?
Well, I have done townie things. I think I am more contrarian when I am town, and thus often attract more votes as town than I do as scum, and I think you can see that in my play.

The three players I have voted for (joth, iguana, Jimmmmm) have all since ended up on the EFHW wagon, so unless you think that is completely town-driven, I have already voted for scum. If you do think that the EFHW wagon is completely town-driven, then it is probably beneficial to join that wagon rather than start a new one on me.

I do want to call out a fallacy here, possibly a scummy one, which is that town-driven wagon =/= wagon on scum. If Jimmmmm thinks that the EFHW wagon is a misguided, but town-driven, wagon, then it's not the case that it's beneficial to join it and also not the case that faust has voted for scum. faust has tried to create a dichotomy here but has intentionally excluded an option to make that dichotomy seem to exonerate him. So, some scumpoints for faust.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 15, 2021, 11:30:32 am
Prod: e

Hi.

Need to reread some, will do that tonight. Sorry, got behind a bit here
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 15, 2021, 12:05:33 pm

Okay faust, what are the reasons we should believe you're Town?
Well, I have done townie things. I think I am more contrarian when I am town, and thus often attract more votes as town than I do as scum, and I think you can see that in my play.

The three players I have voted for (joth, iguana, Jimmmmm) have all since ended up on the EFHW wagon, so unless you think that is completely town-driven, I have already voted for scum. If you do think that the EFHW wagon is completely town-driven, then it is probably beneficial to join that wagon rather than start a new one on me.

I do want to call out a fallacy here, possibly a scummy one, which is that town-driven wagon =/= wagon on scum. If Jimmmmm thinks that the EFHW wagon is a misguided, but town-driven, wagon, then it's not the case that it's beneficial to join it and also not the case that faust has voted for scum. faust has tried to create a dichotomy here but has intentionally excluded an option to make that dichotomy seem to exonerate him. So, some scumpoints for faust.
I guess? Though if anyone feels this way about the EFHW wagon then I think that person should tell us that and explain why they feel that way. If you feel so strongly about a wagon that you are willing to go against a bunch of your townreads then you have some insight that is worth sharing. That hasn't happened, so I think it's safe to assume that noone believes it.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 15, 2021, 12:14:55 pm
Wow, my question to Faust was answered in detail it turns out.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 15, 2021, 12:35:57 pm
[-snip-]
I would have preferred to avoid the meta argument entirely, but sadly there's nothing else to talk about when it comes to faust's game.

I don't think you can say this any more in good faith. faust has divulged quite a bit. He shared his opinion on the EFHW wagon, gave more of a read on MiX, etc. He's playing less one dimensionally than you are giving him credit for in your argument.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 15, 2021, 12:40:44 pm
Oh also if I was scum I would be more accepting of MiX and his townread on me.

the fact that you know your meta makes all those things NAI

Given you're voting faust, isn't this argument basically "The fact that you look like your town self means you're scum?" I get that someone can look town and be scum but if faust looks like town faust shouldn't we wait until scum!faust appears? I realize this is rich coming from someone who failed to do that recently but still.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 15, 2021, 12:47:01 pm
Prod: Swowl

I think he's realized that the thing he wants to do while sunbathing at the beach is not forum mafia.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 15, 2021, 01:35:39 pm
mathdude, those were a couple of really good and insightful posts.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Dylan32 on September 15, 2021, 02:01:17 pm
Prod: Swowl

I think he's realized that the thing he wants to do while sunbathing at the beach is not forum mafia.

Prod sent.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Swowl on September 15, 2021, 02:21:37 pm
Here and Iguana is right.
Sorry all - DisSwan keeps getting mad at me while Iím on my phone.

I will make some time and also I am back home like 24 hours from now.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 15, 2021, 02:36:49 pm
mathdude, those were a couple of really good and insightful posts.
Which ones, the meta posts? They did nothing for this game, so I would not call them good.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 15, 2021, 03:18:12 pm
You guys are all wrong. That exchange was extremely enlightening. Faust is town and Jimmmmm is scum.

Vote: Jimmmmm

Lol.

Vote: joth

Vote: e cause you're partners.

MiX throwing out way too early partner teams. This is how you get yourself exiled, MiX. Don't worry, I still trust you are town
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 15, 2021, 03:19:52 pm
If my main concern was dissolving a wagon on me, coming out against faust would not be the way to do that.

Not a valid defense, but I don't like exiling jimmmm just out of personal bias. I should probably reread jimmmmm
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 15, 2021, 03:23:00 pm
Wait, people are voting Jimmmmm?

You all are super scummy. Jimmmm is the most townie of all townies
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mathdude on September 15, 2021, 03:23:39 pm
trying not to extend the discussion in a meaningless way... good luck, self!
I'm afraid you failed, unfortunately.

Matter of opinion. I think things are moving forward in a more meaningful way today, compared to yesterday. To steal the format given earlier, there's more "[person] is [alignment] because [reasons]" happening than before. However, I'd guess my posts have very little to fo with it. So I digress.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 15, 2021, 03:23:46 pm
You guys are all wrong. That exchange was extremely enlightening. Faust is town and Jimmmmm is scum.

Vote: Jimmmmm

Which exchange? Everything I read from jimmmm screamed town
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 15, 2021, 03:25:31 pm
White paused for a moment to look out the window and noticed that somehow their course had drifted straight into an asteroid field! They jumped on the weapons and started blasting the asteroids out of the sky, while Cyan jumped in the pilot's seat and charted a new course. At the back of the ship, Lime Green wondered where everyone was, so they sat down and watched the security cameras for a bit.

Vote Count 1.3

iguanaiguana (1): 2.71828.....
EFHW (4): WestCoastDidds, iguanaiguana, jotheonah, Jimmmmm
Jimmmmm (3): faust, MiX, mathdude
faust (1): LaLight

Not Voting (3): Swowl, EFHW, gkrieg13

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to exile. Day 1 ends September 18, 2021, 03:00:00 pm

Third vote is scum

Vote: math
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mathdude on September 15, 2021, 03:28:15 pm
Wait, people are voting Jimmmmm?

You all are super scummy. Jimmmm is the most townie of all townies

And you know this because... ? AFAIK, only scum could be that sure... or MiX apparently. Everything he knows, he knows with 100% certainty.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 15, 2021, 03:29:41 pm
Wait, people are voting Jimmmmm?

You all are super scummy. Jimmmm is the most townie of all townies

And you know this because... ? AFAIK, only scum could be that sure... or MiX apparently. Everything he knows, he knows with 100% certainty.

Hey, I had bravado about my reads before MiX even starting playing on this site.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 15, 2021, 03:30:48 pm
It feels super awesome when you actually end up being right.



.......Except I have an abysmal track record of actually being right
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: mathdude on September 15, 2021, 03:31:00 pm
White paused for a moment to look out the window and noticed that somehow their course had drifted straight into an asteroid field! They jumped on the weapons and started blasting the asteroids out of the sky, while Cyan jumped in the pilot's seat and charted a new course. At the back of the ship, Lime Green wondered where everyone was, so they sat down and watched the security cameras for a bit.

Vote Count 1.3

iguanaiguana (1): 2.71828.....
EFHW (4): WestCoastDidds, iguanaiguana, jotheonah, Jimmmmm
Jimmmmm (3): faust, MiX, mathdude
faust (1): LaLight

Not Voting (3): Swowl, EFHW, gkrieg13

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to exile. Day 1 ends September 18, 2021, 03:00:00 pm

Third vote is scum

Vote: math

Policy vote anyone? "3rd vote on my town-read is scum".
Or OMGUS because we're voting your partner?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 15, 2021, 03:31:32 pm
Wait, people are voting Jimmmmm?

You all are super scummy. Jimmmm is the most townie of all townies

And you know this because... ? AFAIK, only scum could be that sure... or MiX apparently. Everything he knows, he knows with 100% certainty.
What do you mean, that sure? All e said is that Jimmmmm is his highest townread. Doesn't matter how strong your reads are, one (or more) of them is always going to be the strongest.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 15, 2021, 03:32:17 pm
White paused for a moment to look out the window and noticed that somehow their course had drifted straight into an asteroid field! They jumped on the weapons and started blasting the asteroids out of the sky, while Cyan jumped in the pilot's seat and charted a new course. At the back of the ship, Lime Green wondered where everyone was, so they sat down and watched the security cameras for a bit.

Vote Count 1.3

iguanaiguana (1): 2.71828.....
EFHW (4): WestCoastDidds, iguanaiguana, jotheonah, Jimmmmm
Jimmmmm (3): faust, MiX, mathdude
faust (1): LaLight

Not Voting (3): Swowl, EFHW, gkrieg13

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to exile. Day 1 ends September 18, 2021, 03:00:00 pm

Third vote is scum

Vote: math

Policy vote anyone? "3rd vote on my town-read is scum".
Or OMGUS because we're voting your partner?

Ah, I see. You needed to give me more material to prove that you are scum.

Greatly appreciated
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 15, 2021, 03:32:48 pm
It feels super awesome when you actually end up being right.



.......Except I have an abysmal track record of actually being right

This. Last game was cool though.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mathdude on September 15, 2021, 03:33:43 pm
Wait, people are voting Jimmmmm?

You all are super scummy. Jimmmm is the most townie of all townies

And you know this because... ? AFAIK, only scum could be that sure... or MiX apparently. Everything he knows, he knows with 100% certainty.
What do you mean, that sure? All e said is that Jimmmmm is his highest townread. Doesn't matter how strong your reads are, one (or more) of them is always going to be the strongest.

Fair enough. I guess I read "most townie of all townies" as "is town". But it doesn't say that. You're right. I take back a bit of the shade I was throwing at e.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 15, 2021, 03:34:38 pm
You guys are all wrong. That exchange was extremely enlightening. Faust is town and Jimmmmm is scum.

Vote: Jimmmmm

Which exchange? Everything I read from jimmmm screamed town

I explained in subsequent posts. TL;DR he seemed less authentic than faust and his vote for faust was OMGUS-y.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: mathdude on September 15, 2021, 03:36:13 pm
White paused for a moment to look out the window and noticed that somehow their course had drifted straight into an asteroid field! They jumped on the weapons and started blasting the asteroids out of the sky, while Cyan jumped in the pilot's seat and charted a new course. At the back of the ship, Lime Green wondered where everyone was, so they sat down and watched the security cameras for a bit.

Vote Count 1.3

iguanaiguana (1): 2.71828.....
EFHW (4): WestCoastDidds, iguanaiguana, jotheonah, Jimmmmm
Jimmmmm (3): faust, MiX, mathdude
faust (1): LaLight

Not Voting (3): Swowl, EFHW, gkrieg13

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to exile. Day 1 ends September 18, 2021, 03:00:00 pm

Third vote is scum

Vote: math

Policy vote anyone? "3rd vote on my town-read is scum".
Or OMGUS because we're voting your partner?

Ah, I see. You needed to give me more material to prove that you are scum.

Greatly appreciated

There's a lot that has happened since my vote. I just haven't moved it yet because I don't see a need to yet. But most of his posts did happen after my vote, IIRC.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: MiX on September 15, 2021, 03:43:22 pm
White paused for a moment to look out the window and noticed that somehow their course had drifted straight into an asteroid field! They jumped on the weapons and started blasting the asteroids out of the sky, while Cyan jumped in the pilot's seat and charted a new course. At the back of the ship, Lime Green wondered where everyone was, so they sat down and watched the security cameras for a bit.

Vote Count 1.3

iguanaiguana (1): 2.71828.....
EFHW (4): WestCoastDidds, iguanaiguana, jotheonah, Jimmmmm
Jimmmmm (3): faust, MiX, mathdude
faust (1): LaLight

Not Voting (3): Swowl, EFHW, gkrieg13

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to exile. Day 1 ends September 18, 2021, 03:00:00 pm

Third vote is scum

Vote: math

Conveniently ignores joth...
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: faust on September 15, 2021, 03:55:27 pm
White paused for a moment to look out the window and noticed that somehow their course had drifted straight into an asteroid field! They jumped on the weapons and started blasting the asteroids out of the sky, while Cyan jumped in the pilot's seat and charted a new course. At the back of the ship, Lime Green wondered where everyone was, so they sat down and watched the security cameras for a bit.

Vote Count 1.3

iguanaiguana (1): 2.71828.....
EFHW (4): WestCoastDidds, iguanaiguana, jotheonah, Jimmmmm
Jimmmmm (3): faust, MiX, mathdude
faust (1): LaLight

Not Voting (3): Swowl, EFHW, gkrieg13

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to exile. Day 1 ends September 18, 2021, 03:00:00 pm

Third vote is scum

Vote: math

Conveniently ignores joth...
Are you saying this because joth is now also voting for Jimmmmm or because joth was the third vote on the EFHW wagon?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: MiX on September 15, 2021, 03:56:23 pm
Conveniently ignores joth...
Are you saying this because joth is now also voting for Jimmmmm or because joth was the third vote on the EFHW wagon?

The latter.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 15, 2021, 04:00:09 pm
White paused for a moment to look out the window and noticed that somehow their course had drifted straight into an asteroid field! They jumped on the weapons and started blasting the asteroids out of the sky, while Cyan jumped in the pilot's seat and charted a new course. At the back of the ship, Lime Green wondered where everyone was, so they sat down and watched the security cameras for a bit.

Vote Count 1.3

iguanaiguana (1): 2.71828.....
EFHW (4): WestCoastDidds, iguanaiguana, jotheonah, Jimmmmm
Jimmmmm (3): faust, MiX, mathdude
faust (1): LaLight

Not Voting (3): Swowl, EFHW, gkrieg13

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to exile. Day 1 ends September 18, 2021, 03:00:00 pm

Third vote is scum

Vote: math

Conveniently ignores joth...
Joth has a D1 pass, remember?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 15, 2021, 04:01:26 pm
Conveniently ignores joth...
Are you saying this because joth is now also voting for Jimmmmm or because joth was the third vote on the EFHW wagon?

The latter.

I hadn't gotten around to looking at the EFHW wagon either. I read jimmm first and it just stuck out to me and I told myself, "me, there is scum on that wagon"
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 15, 2021, 06:26:04 pm
mathdude, those were a couple of really good and insightful posts.
Which ones, the meta posts? They did nothing for this game, so I would not call them good.

Well, Iím glad I wasnít taking a poll! To me, they demonstrate that math is learning more about how we play and settling more into our culture. He is actively changing and adaptingÖ for example, he used to make gigantic wall posts that people needed up skimming, but he stopped that. This posts about naked votes from town or scum faust show growing insight, so Iím giving him props. I didnít say they moved us forward, but they did move math forward, for me.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 15, 2021, 07:06:22 pm
yeah didds is town. thank goodness.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 15, 2021, 08:20:16 pm

Third vote is scum

Vote: math

I'm a bit busy at work for the next two days, so no time for a long post but suffice to say I found this case persuasive.

Vote: Mathdude
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 15, 2021, 08:32:57 pm
I would join this wagon.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 15, 2021, 10:27:22 pm
If my main concern was dissolving a wagon on me, coming out against faust would not be the way to do that.

Not a valid defense, but I don't like exiling jimmmm just out of personal bias. I should probably reread jimmmmm

I don't understand what you're saying here. What's the invalid defense, who has the personal bias and is it positive or negative?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 15, 2021, 10:53:44 pm
In fact, Vote: faust. Scum or anti-Town, you don't get a free pass just because you want one.
@Jimmmmm, at what point did you start feeling angry at faust?

@faust, same question re: Jimmmmm.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 15, 2021, 10:56:20 pm
If angry is too strong a word, then when did your negative feelings peak?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 15, 2021, 11:24:24 pm
Yeah I wouldn't say I'm angry, and I did lean into the argument a bit because I think getting into early-game arguments helps me get into the game, particularly when at least one side has/has expressed a scumread on the other.

I really think faust's strategy is not only damaging to Town, but damaging to the game. If it was pro-Town then everyone should do it, and if everyone did it we wouldn't have much of a game left. I think it was #238 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20873.msg876795#msg876795) when it became clear to me that this was something that faust was really going for. I think it's something of a devious strategy because it potentially makes him effectively unexileable. If we misexile him once then all the better for him as he can then point to that in the future. I think this kind of acti-lurking is significantly worse than lurking, and if we "exile all lurkers" as an attempt to disincentivise lurking, then we should do something similar for this.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 15, 2021, 11:49:31 pm
I guess we can add ďadvocating for a policy exileĒ to the Jimmmmm is scum bingo card.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 15, 2021, 11:51:29 pm
Only if I flip scum.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 16, 2021, 01:01:25 am
If angry is too strong a word, then when did your negative feelings peak?
Peak negative feelings was definitely here:
What definitely does not serve town is debating which playstyles are and aren't helpful to town instead of scumhunting.

For sure. And look at the rabbit-hole you're leading us down.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 16, 2021, 01:03:02 am
If it was pro-Town then everyone should do it
This is a fallacy.

I think this kind of acti-lurking is significantly worse than lurking, and if we "exile all lurkers" as an attempt to disincentivise lurking, then we should do something similar for this.
Please explain how what I do is worse than lurking.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 16, 2021, 01:05:13 am
I did lean into the argument a bit
This to me really illustrates how disingenuous the post i quoted for my peak negative feelings really was.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 16, 2021, 01:08:50 am
If it was pro-Town then everyone should do it
This is a fallacy.

How? Are you suggesting you're the only one who should do it?


Quote
I think this kind of acti-lurking is significantly worse than lurking, and if we "exile all lurkers" as an attempt to disincentivise lurking, then we should do something similar for this.
Please explain how what I do is worse than lurking.

Well for one, normally when lurkers are called out for lurking they try to stop. When you're called out for acti-lurking it results in this.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 16, 2021, 01:11:52 am
I did lean into the argument a bit
This to me really illustrates how disingenuous the post i quoted for my peak negative feelings really was.

Nope. Never said I did or said anything disingenuous.

Regarding the post you quoted, the fact that not giving you a free pass inevitably leads us down this rabbit hole is one of the major problems with your strategy.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 16, 2021, 01:15:19 am
And then for you to chide others for debating playstyles when it's the only talking point you allow for yourself is part of the deviousness of the strategy.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 16, 2021, 01:16:47 am
I am not engaging with this further.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 16, 2021, 01:40:06 am
[-snip-]
I would have preferred to avoid the meta argument entirely, but sadly there's nothing else to talk about when it comes to faust's game.

I don't think you can say this any more in good faith. faust has divulged quite a bit. He shared his opinion on the EFHW wagon, gave more of a read on MiX, etc. He's playing less one dimensionally than you are giving him credit for in your argument.

Looking through faust's posts, I stand by my statement.


I assume regarding the EFHW wagon you're referring to this:

The three players I have voted for (joth, iguana, Jimmmmm) have all since ended up on the EFHW wagon, so unless you think that is completely town-driven, I have already voted for scum. If you do think that the EFHW wagon is completely town-driven, then it is probably beneficial to join that wagon rather than start a new one on me.

This is a nothing argument. You don't get credit for voting for a group that may contain scum, certainly not pre-flip and not necessarily post-flip. The extent of faust's shared opinion on the EFHW wagon is "I've voted for EFHW-voters, so either I'm right or EFHW is scum (or at least should be exiled)". This is not plainly true, unhelpful in itself, and moreso given that it's based on unhelpful votes.


Comments on/to MiX:

Don't you think you can buddy me!

I was just about ready to vote MiX, and now you leave?

MiX is scum but it's not the exile we want right now.

MiX is scum but it's not the exile we want right now.

why not?
If I tell you we'd have to kill him.

I am disappointed in you, MiX. Two people having a drawn-out emotional discussion and then a third player going "I think this is TvT" is such a meme. I expected better.

I am disappointed in you, MiX. Two people having a drawn-out emotional discussion and then a third player going "I think this is TvT" is such a meme. I expected better.

It's a meme for a reason. I think your particular way of reacting to Jimmmmm makes him town. And of course, it makes you town too.
In my experience the statement is about as likely to be correct as random chance once you restrict to only instances where townies say it.

Also, wait - the way I reacted to Jimmmmm makes him town? How does that make sense?

The things he said that made you react like that, and the reaction itself, tells me that you subconsciously think that he's being honest and genuine.
What does is matter what I think?

Also, the fact that scum can be honest and genuine about these things was like, the entire point i tried to make earlier.

Oh also if I was scum I would be more accepting of MiX and his townread on me.

...
Conveniently ignores joth...
Are you saying this because joth is now also voting for Jimmmmm or because joth was the third vote on the EFHW wagon?

Nothing here sheds any light to me on either of their alignments or faust's read on MiX. Is there something I've missed?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 16, 2021, 01:59:25 am
MiX is scum but it's not the exile we want right now.
[...]
Nothing here sheds any light to me on [...] faust's read on MiX.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 16, 2021, 02:06:37 am
Yep you said the words "MiX is scum" early on Day 1. Perhaps I should have said it sheds no light on your scumread on MiX. If you are Town and have some strong reason to believe MiX is scum, I'd love to hear it. Until I do, the statement is meaningless as far as I'm concerned.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 16, 2021, 02:09:16 am
Taking a closer look at EFHW, particularly the defensiveness claim.


Enough digression/regression regarding the last game. How shall we get out of RVS?

math, were you seriously pushing MiX, or was that more RVS?

This seems reasonable. I don't know what happened last game, but I can understand not wanting to let it cause problems for this game.


so anyway faust is town & Didds is town & MiX is ??? but he's being pleasant and helpful.

idk, nobody's pinging me overmuch, which makes sense because none of you are terrible at this game.

Vote: EFHW
Wait a minute - are you salty too?

I could see an argument for this being defensive - joth didn't mention the last game but EFHW guesses it as the reason for joth's vote. Could be read as a light-hearted jab.


I feel better and better about my EFHW vote. 

I think you have this on speed dial. I used to scum read it. Now I think it's NAI.

This seems reasonable if the WCD/EFHW thing is as common as it sounds.


so anyway faust is town & Didds is town & MiX is ??? but he's being pleasant and helpful.

idk, nobody's pinging me overmuch, which makes sense because none of you are terrible at this game.

Vote: EFHW
Wait a minute - are you salty too?
Because there can't be anything in the current game that is scummy.

The fact that she quotes her own post to justify it without prompting rings a small bell.


math, were you seriously pushing MiX, or was that more RVS?
If LL hadn't joined the vote already, I would have already moved on. But since there were 2 votes, I thought I'd see if anyone else was interested in joining too.

So maybe RVS? But
I donít know if I believe in RVS anymore.
Ditto?

MiX wanted my response to this. I don't play this way, but I know some people do. Meaning being influenced by existing wagons in placing a vote. Maybe that's why joth just voted me. But given that math exhorted others to vote MiX, I'd say this is not a satisfactory answer. I don't see how it can be RVS since he had reasons. Not random.

I'm having some trouble parsing this post, but Didds pointed it out as the one that felt defensive. MiX pointed out the bolded statements as the ones that can look defensive. I don't see the first bolded statement as defensive, rather as an intro to the post, which makes sense to clarify that she was replying to MiX but quoting math. The context of this was EFHW's question to math about whether his vote was RVS or serious; the response being that it was wagon-based / maybe RVS. EFHW's response seems to be that she wouldn't join the wagon for wagon's sake, but connects it to joth's vote on her by suggesting it might be the reason for that. But only one sentence out of six is about joth's vote; the rest is about math's response to EFHW's question, so I don't see this as defensive at all.



I think the RVS/non-RVS thing is pretty moot. Whatever you call it, votes at the start of Day 1 are different because there has been little or no opportunity to develop reads. Most people in my experience call that RVS. Just because some bristle at the term doesn't make it ("is this a serious vote"?) an invalid question.


So, aside from possibly a couple of minor things, I disagree with the EFHW defensiveness argument.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 16, 2021, 02:13:07 am
Can someone articulate why the Jimmmmm wagon?

He's scummy.

And uh I was also townreading Jimmmmm before this recent discussion.

Anyway, it would be cool if we had other wagons, or maybe even just collapse on EFHW. I'll reread the game in a few hours and decide then.

MiX, what and when was the change in your attitude towards me between these posts, which are 17 hours apart?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 16, 2021, 02:22:04 am
Ok, I'm going to respond to one question directed at me, then give my 2 cents on the 2 pages of excessive banter while trying not to extend the discussion in a meaningless way... good luck, self!

Hi Everybody!

What meaningful scumtells do you infer from this post? Quacks like RVS to me.

TBH though, the interactions before and after this rang a little scummy to me. So my vote wasn't entirely without reason. Also, creating interaction, seeing who defends and who jumps on wagon is helpful too.

What interactions rang scummy? You say "before and after" this - are you quoting the post you didn't find scummy?

Specifically, the quoted post felt artificial. Then looking at the post he quoted, and the 2 or 3 that followed, it felt to me like Jimmmmm was trying to create interaction ... I don't know, it just didn't feel like genuine town posting to me.  (No, don't ask me what town posting feels like... it was just my gut feel.)


I still don't really understand this. The quoted post was sarcastic, and probably trying to be a bit clever, so it was artificial in that sense, but the meaning was genuine - disbelief that a vote based only on that post was a serious "Let's exile joth" vote. Of course it could have been for some other reason, such as putting pressure on him to get a reaction, but to me that still falls within RVS.

What do you mean that I was trying to create interaction? It's not clear to me which the 2 or 3 posts you're talking about are.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 16, 2021, 05:31:44 am
Can someone articulate why the Jimmmmm wagon?

He's scummy.

And uh I was also townreading Jimmmmm before this recent discussion.

Anyway, it would be cool if we had other wagons, or maybe even just collapse on EFHW. I'll reread the game in a few hours and decide then.

MiX, what and when was the change in your attitude towards me between these posts, which are 17 hours apart?

The first one was a joke. I wanted to stay on your wagon despite toenreading you, so I said that.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 16, 2021, 05:32:20 am
In fact, Vote: faust. Scum or anti-Town, you don't get a free pass just because you want one.
@Jimmmmm, at what point did you start feeling angry at faust?

@faust, same question re: Jimmmmm.

I am willing to policy exile EFHW for this post.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on September 16, 2021, 05:36:27 am
In fact, Vote: faust. Scum or anti-Town, you don't get a free pass just because you want one.
@Jimmmmm, at what point did you start feeling angry at faust?

@faust, same question re: Jimmmmm.

I am willing to policy exile EFHW for this post.

why?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 16, 2021, 05:47:00 am
In fact, Vote: faust. Scum or anti-Town, you don't get a free pass just because you want one.
@Jimmmmm, at what point did you start feeling angry at faust?

@faust, same question re: Jimmmmm.

I am willing to policy exile EFHW for this post.

why?

Because she brought up the faust/Jimmmmm argument again, for what it seems like no real reason.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 16, 2021, 06:07:27 am
Idk if this needs to be said to a bunch of vets, but policy exiles are scummy because they give scum cover to get someone exiled without committing to that person being scum. We get one exile per game day. Itís not pro town to use it for anything other than pursuing our collective wincon.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 16, 2021, 07:10:37 am
In fact, Vote: faust. Scum or anti-Town, you don't get a free pass just because you want one.
@Jimmmmm, at what point did you start feeling angry at faust?

@faust, same question re: Jimmmmm.

I am willing to policy exile EFHW for this post.

why?

Because she brought up the faust/Jimmmmm argument again, for what it seems like no real reason.

So.... Not a policy exile.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 16, 2021, 09:52:45 am
In fact, Vote: faust. Scum or anti-Town, you don't get a free pass just because you want one.
@Jimmmmm, at what point did you start feeling angry at faust?

@faust, same question re: Jimmmmm.

I am willing to policy exile EFHW for this post.

I want to sort out if either of them is scummy for that argument.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 16, 2021, 09:54:43 am
Ok, I caught up. Sorry.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 16, 2021, 10:10:53 am
In fact, Vote: faust. Scum or anti-Town, you don't get a free pass just because you want one.
@Jimmmmm, at what point did you start feeling angry at faust?

@faust, same question re: Jimmmmm.

I am willing to policy exile EFHW for this post.

I want to sort out if either of them is scummy for that argument.

What were/are your reads on them before/after this question?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 16, 2021, 10:15:31 am
Can anyone remember reads being given to players that aren't faust/Jimmmmm/EFHW/MiX/joth/math?

I did scumread e, but I can't remember much else.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mathdude on September 16, 2021, 10:17:31 am
Regarding Jimmmmm's textwalls above (re-digging into faust, now also looking at detail into EFHW), can someone who knows his meta better help me interpret them?  I'm not sure what to make of this effort.

Does scum!Jimmmmm dig in and try to find another valid wagon when he comes under fire?  Is this town!Jimmmmm honestly trying to seek out the truth?  Or is this is standard defense/response for him when he's up against a wall, regardless of alignment, making it NAI?

Unvote for now.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 16, 2021, 10:19:56 am
Can anyone remember reads being given to players that aren't faust/Jimmmmm/EFHW/MiX/joth/math?

I did scumread e, but I can't remember much else.

joth says Didds is Towny, although that wavered a bit.

Didds says that LL and iguana are Towny (along with others on the list).
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 16, 2021, 10:20:34 am

Are you wanting a response from me?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mathdude on September 16, 2021, 10:21:15 am
Can anyone remember reads being given to players that aren't faust/Jimmmmm/EFHW/MiX/joth/math?

I did scumread e, but I can't remember much else.

There are more than those 6 playing this game?
/sarcasm

Most recent official vote count (I know, a lot has changed since then)...
White paused for a moment to look out the window and noticed that somehow their course had drifted straight into an asteroid field! They jumped on the weapons and started blasting the asteroids out of the sky, while Cyan jumped in the pilot's seat and charted a new course. At the back of the ship, Lime Green wondered where everyone was, so they sat down and watched the security cameras for a bit.

Vote Count 1.3

iguanaiguana (1): 2.71828.....
EFHW (4): WestCoastDidds, iguanaiguana, jotheonah, Jimmmmm
Jimmmmm (3): faust, MiX, mathdude
faust (1): LaLight

Not Voting (3): Swowl, EFHW, gkrieg13

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to exile. Day 1 ends September 18, 2021, 03:00:00 pm

iguana
e
WCD
LL
Swowl
gk

So, yes, e has been participating.  I believe iguana has also been in-and-out.  Didds seems to be her usual self, D1... happy to be hanging out with people here, talking friendly, etc.  But LL, Swowl, and gk have been almost non-existant (and if they have been around, they haven't posted anything worthwhile that I have noticed).
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 16, 2021, 10:23:29 am
Can anyone remember reads being given to players that aren't faust/Jimmmmm/EFHW/MiX/joth/math?

I did scumread e, but I can't remember much else.

joth says Didds is Towny, although that wavered a bit.

Didds says that LL and iguana are Towny (along with others on the list).

Thanks.

We should look at LL/iguana/Swowl/gkrieg/e then. Yes, I excluded Didds, but only because I actually remember joth's post about her.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mathdude on September 16, 2021, 10:23:38 am

Are you wanting a response from me?

You can respond if you want.  But I was more interested in other people's opinions of your meta.  As has already been mentioned this thread (regarding faust or joth, I forget which)... when someone knows their own meta well enough to comment on it, it does seem to make it NAI.  But if you can tell me which of those options (or another option) it is, that can help, I guess.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 16, 2021, 10:26:18 am
Vote: iguana

Request Vote Count. Not trying to imply you didn't post frequently enough, just that the thread moved fast.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mathdude on September 16, 2021, 10:27:55 am
We should look at LL/iguana/Swowl/gkrieg/e then. Yes, I excluded Didds, but only because I actually remember joth's post about her.

We have a little over 2 days (about 52 hours, I believe).  I'm not saying we shouldn't change directions - there is still enough time for that.  In fact, we should definitely look at these people.  But we need to do it soon, and get responses and opinions today, rather than waiting until the final few hours.

I believe there was an early mini-wagon on iguana, that fizzled as quick as it started.

Were there votes on e today too?  Or am I thinking of the previous game?

And someone policy voted for LL early, but that wasn't anything for discussion, I don't believe.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 16, 2021, 10:35:32 am
You can respond if you want.  But I was more interested in other people's opinions of your meta.  As has already been mentioned this thread (regarding faust or joth, I forget which)... when someone knows their own meta well enough to comment on it, it does seem to make it NAI.  But if you can tell me which of those options (or another option) it is, that can help, I guess.

Yeah I agree with that sentiment, but I'll weigh in.

I don't think level of effort is particularly alignment-indicative for me. I might be slightly less likely to be lurky as scum overall, because I feel a responsibility to my teammate/s. But I've definitely had games both ways in which I've put in a lot of effort. The problem is that when I fall behind I have a really hard time catching up.

I think as scum under pressure my goal is generally to ignore the pressure and try to emulate my Town self by doing productive-looking re-reads etc. I don't recall ever OMGUSing or going hard after someone because they were going hard after me as scum.

If I was scum in this game, I would feel the same about faust's strategy but I highly doubt I would have argued with him anywhere near as much as I have.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 16, 2021, 10:42:56 am
Vote: MiX

the time has come.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 16, 2021, 10:53:00 am
vote: mathdude
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 16, 2021, 10:59:58 am
Vote: MiX

the time has come.

oh no. i tried to do something productive. better return to wackyness.

Haha faust lock!town for being so stubborn!!!!!!1!!!!one. Hey faust, why oh why are you scumreading me? I'm so invested in this question and believe you will provide a satisfactory answer!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mathdude on September 16, 2021, 11:01:09 am
Vote: MiX

the time has come.

Should I even bother asking for reasons?

vote: mathdude

Thanks for your participation!  It's so very helpful.

I just looked back at your posts this game, and it does appear you have about 16 of them.  Almost none of them are memorable.  It's almost like you're putting posts out there, but making sure you're not standing out and drawing any attention to yourself.  (The one I remembered was where you told faust "you aren't supposed to know that about yourself").  Trying to slide just under the radar for some reason?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 16, 2021, 11:03:53 am
Gkrieg doesn't have the classic "I will now reread the whole game" posts, but his posts so far seem townie. I like the EFHW opinions, for example.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: Dylan32 on September 16, 2021, 11:14:18 am
Lime Green watched some interesting things happen on the cams. Orange and Brown walked into security together. Purple walked past the doors to administration, and a moment later Black emerged from admin and followed Purple back into the cafeteria. At that moment someone sneakily walked under the camera in the hallway just beyond the security room. Lime Green turned around to see who it was...

Vote Count 1.4

iguanaiguana (1): MiX
EFHW (1): WestCoastDidds
Jimmmmm (2): EFHW, jotheonah
faust (2): LaLight, Jimmmmm
mathdude (3): 2.71828....., iguanaiguana, gkrieg13
MiX (1): faust

Not Voting (2): Swowl, mathdude

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to exile. Day 1 ends September 18, 2021, 03:00:00 pm
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 16, 2021, 11:39:35 am
Regarding Jimmmmm's textwalls above (re-digging into faust, now also looking at detail into EFHW), can someone who knows his meta better help me interpret them?  I'm not sure what to make of this effort.

Does scum!Jimmmmm dig in and try to find another valid wagon when he comes under fire?  Is this town!Jimmmmm honestly trying to seek out the truth?  Or is this is standard defense/response for him when he's up against a wall, regardless of alignment, making it NAI?

Unvote for now.
I think the problem with answering this is that Jimmmmm has not been playing a lot recently, and when he did oftentimes he just ended up lurking and eventually getting exiled/replaced for that.

I looked at the last 2 of his scum games: RMM56 and RMM54. Jimmmm was Serial Killer in RMM56, so that's maybe not the best representation. In that game, there is definitely a flurry of activity from Jimmmmm after he gets his first wagon (read from here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20258.msg843931#msg843931)).

In RMM54, he similarly reacts with wallposting to pressure, see e.g. this post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19849.msg813793#msg813793) coming after a push, which is significantly longer than anything he posted before in that game. It's followed by more rereads.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 16, 2021, 11:40:58 am
Hey faust, why oh why are you scumreading me? I'm so invested in this question and believe you will provide a satisfactory answer!
It's because you are scum!



Was it everything that you hoped for?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 16, 2021, 11:46:25 am
Why are we changing directions when we have two perfectly cromulent wagons right here?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 16, 2021, 11:48:20 am
Vote: MiX

the time has come.

Should I even bother asking for reasons?
I don't know if you should. I definitely respond more positively to a third party asking for reasons for my vote than the person I'm voting for.

Everything MiX has done this game feels like he's performing town. The overinflated townread on me. The pivot toward "exile all lurkers" (without using that terminology). Nothing MiX has done this game is surprising because he's not actually concerned with finding scum.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 16, 2021, 11:49:27 am
Why are we changing directions when we have two perfectly cromulent wagons right here?
At this point, it is a bit unclear which wagons you are referring to with this.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 16, 2021, 11:50:42 am
I was thinking Jimmmmm and EFHW, but I see the EFHW wagon has sputtered out.

Anyway, let's get rid of Jimmmmm, he's being very scummy.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 16, 2021, 11:57:11 am
You've convinced me. I've also convinced myself.

vote: Jimmmmm
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 16, 2021, 11:58:28 am
Regarding Jimmmmm's textwalls above (re-digging into faust, now also looking at detail into EFHW), can someone who knows his meta better help me interpret them?  I'm not sure what to make of this effort.

Does scum!Jimmmmm dig in and try to find another valid wagon when he comes under fire?  Is this town!Jimmmmm honestly trying to seek out the truth?  Or is this is standard defense/response for him when he's up against a wall, regardless of alignment, making it NAI?

Unvote for now.
I think the problem with answering this is that Jimmmmm has not been playing a lot recently, and when he did oftentimes he just ended up lurking and eventually getting exiled/replaced for that.

I looked at the last 2 of his scum games: RMM56 and RMM54. Jimmmm was Serial Killer in RMM56, so that's maybe not the best representation. In that game, there is definitely a flurry of activity from Jimmmmm after he gets his first wagon (read from here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20258.msg843931#msg843931)).

In RMM54, he similarly reacts with wallposting to pressure, see e.g. this post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19849.msg813793#msg813793) coming after a push, which is significantly longer than anything he posted before in that game. It's followed by more rereads.
I wanted to contrast this with a town game of Jimmmmm's, and in BM32, he was the D1 misexile, but  at no point did that pressure cause a flurry of activity like in the scum games I referenced.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 16, 2021, 12:05:35 pm
Why are we changing directions when we have two perfectly cromulent wagons right here?

Nice vocabulary word there
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 16, 2021, 01:00:42 pm
Regarding Jimmmmm's textwalls above (re-digging into faust, now also looking at detail into EFHW), can someone who knows his meta better help me interpret them?  I'm not sure what to make of this effort.

Does scum!Jimmmmm dig in and try to find another valid wagon when he comes under fire?  Is this town!Jimmmmm honestly trying to seek out the truth?  Or is this is standard defense/response for him when he's up against a wall, regardless of alignment, making it NAI?

Unvote for now.

Truth be told, this is a new look from Jimmm for most of us. He's in Australia so he tends to be active when most of us are sleeping so his interactions are often out of time from the rest of us. I've played with him a handful of times and he tends to be rather lurky and then gets exiled, but has a reputation for being smart and solving games that predates my actual experience with him.

He doesn't usually lock horns with faust (although lots of other people do) but I am completely sympathetic to being bored and locked up so engaging more as a result. 

I find his level of engagement pretty towny, but on closer inspection it is probably NAI.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 16, 2021, 01:05:50 pm
Can someone tell me why mathdude is scummy?

And the big argument on jimmmm is that he's active?

I don't know...I think if we're taking a shot in the dark someone like Swowl who is just busy elsewhere (which is always super good scum cover, if need be) seems like less of a loss.

Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 16, 2021, 01:21:49 pm
Jimmmmm is a very easy D1 misexile. He can't solve then and so he doesn't have much else other than activity tells. It's also a voice worth shutting down for later in the game. This is similar to gkrieg, honestly.

Yes he can be scum here. But there's not much else saying he's scum other than that.

Faust is only reading half of my posts and that's super townie. I understand scumreading me for buddying him, but saying I've been overemphasizing being town!MiX just ignores everything I've done into "it's townie, therefore it's scummy".
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 16, 2021, 01:29:14 pm
The mathdude wagon is extremely interesting. It's entirely composed of what faust would call lurkers.

Too interesting to give half-baked opinions on it.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 16, 2021, 01:40:46 pm
vote: mathdude

Are you trying to do a faust? I had to go back to page 4 (and I do 50 post pages) to find your last contributions, and math was not mentioned.

vote: gkrieg
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 16, 2021, 01:47:28 pm
Jimmmmm is a very easy D1 misexile. He can't solve then and so he doesn't have much else other than activity tells. It's also a voice worth shutting down for later in the game. This is similar to gkrieg, honestly.

Yes he can be scum here. But there's not much else saying he's scum other than that.

Faust is only reading half of my posts and that's super townie. I understand scumreading me for buddying him, but saying I've been overemphasizing being town!MiX just ignores everything I've done into "it's townie, therefore it's scummy".

Ok, so the scum team is MiX-Jimmmm and ... who else do we think?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 16, 2021, 01:48:37 pm
The mathdude wagon is extremely interesting. It's entirely composed of what faust would call lurkers.

Too interesting to give half-baked opinions on it.

Is e scummy? Or he just has a scummy wagon?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 16, 2021, 01:48:59 pm
The mathdude wagon is extremely interesting. It's entirely composed of what faust would call lurkers.

Too interesting to give half-baked opinions on it.

Is he scummy? Or he just has a scummy wagon?

He, not e
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 16, 2021, 01:50:38 pm
Jimmmmm is a very easy D1 misexile. He can't solve then and so he doesn't have much else other than activity tells. It's also a voice worth shutting down for later in the game. This is similar to gkrieg, honestly.

Yes he can be scum here. But there's not much else saying he's scum other than that.

Faust is only reading half of my posts and that's super townie. I understand scumreading me for buddying him, but saying I've been overemphasizing being town!MiX just ignores everything I've done into "it's townie, therefore it's scummy".

Ok, so the scum team is MiX-Jimmmm and ... who else do we think?

How to scum:

- Buddy faust
- Vote partner
- Wait for partner to get in an argument with faust
- Say they're both town and unvote
- Open up the option to bus
- ???
- Let Jimmmmm be exiled D1
- Infinite towncred

The mathdude wagon is extremely interesting. It's entirely composed of what faust would call lurkers.

Too interesting to give half-baked opinions on it.

Is he scummy? Or he just has a scummy wagon?

He, not e

Neither. Not sure.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 16, 2021, 01:55:45 pm
I am here and have read. I worked 12 hours until 2am last night, am working 10 hours until midnight today and need to start getting ready soon. So I have reasons for where I voted that I want to share but just literally have not been able to sit at a desktop to write them down.

I can not do this game playing my style phone posting, but I'm hoping to get a couple hours tomorrow morning.

I find MiX lumping me in with the lurkers to be silly on its face. Time will tell I will blow your word count out of the water  8)
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 16, 2021, 02:00:32 pm
I am here and have read. I worked 12 hours until 2am last night, am working 10 hours until midnight today and need to start getting ready soon. So I have reasons for where I voted that I want to share but just literally have not been able to sit at a desktop to write them down.

I can not do this game playing my style phone posting, but I'm hoping to get a couple hours tomorrow morning.

I find MiX lumping me in with the lurkers to be silly on its face. Time will tell I will blow your word count out of the water  8)

I wasn't trying to call you a lurker, but i understand that it looks like I did.

Higher post count than me? Over my dead body! :P

Why did I vote you again?

Vote: EFHW
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 16, 2021, 02:17:28 pm
The case on Jimmmmm is not just that he's being active. It's that he's being active in a certain way in response to pressure that is consistent with his past play and inconsistent with this past town play. That's like a very good day 1 case. I appreciate faust doing the work to cross-reference it.

On top of that, he has:

-advocated for a policy exile in a really noncommittal way
-OMGUS voted for faust during their exchange
-been soft-defended by MiX in exactly the way that scum defends a partner (trying to deflect the exile without actually defending the player as townie).

There's like a lot here, fam. This isn't just nonsense.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 16, 2021, 02:32:06 pm
Jimmmmm is a very easy D1 misexile. He can't solve then and so he doesn't have much else other than activity tells. It's also a voice worth shutting down for later in the game. This is similar to gkrieg, honestly.

Yes he can be scum here. But there's not much else saying he's scum other than that.

Faust is only reading half of my posts and that's super townie. I understand scumreading me for buddying him, but saying I've been overemphasizing being town!MiX just ignores everything I've done into "it's townie, therefore it's scummy".

Ok, so the scum team is MiX-Jimmmm and ... who else do we think?
Didds is the third, clearly.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 16, 2021, 02:37:28 pm
vote: mathdude

Are you trying to do a faust? I had to go back to page 4 (and I do 50 post pages) to find your last contributions, and math was not mentioned.

vote: gkrieg
Is this the time you choose to abandon the Jimmmmm wagon?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 16, 2021, 02:38:27 pm
I am here and have read. I worked 12 hours until 2am last night, am working 10 hours until midnight today and need to start getting ready soon. So I have reasons for where I voted that I want to share but just literally have not been able to sit at a desktop to write them down.

I can not do this game playing my style phone posting, but I'm hoping to get a couple hours tomorrow morning.

I find MiX lumping me in with the lurkers to be silly on its face. Time will tell I will blow your word count out of the water  8)

I wasn't trying to call you a lurker, but i understand that it looks like I did.

Higher post count than me? Over my dead body! :P

Why did I vote you again?

Vote: EFHW

Does this vote mean you are insisting I choose between faust and Jimmmmm, and can't look anywhere else? We have 48 hours left. Gkrieg has not gotten any attention and is being scummy. Could say the same about Lalight, in fact. I'm not going to vote faust today. I might go back to Jimmmmm. I am feeling uncomfortable ever since joth got involved.

PPE: See this post
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 16, 2021, 02:39:50 pm
I am here and have read. I worked 12 hours until 2am last night, am working 10 hours until midnight today and need to start getting ready soon. So I have reasons for where I voted that I want to share but just literally have not been able to sit at a desktop to write them down.

I can not do this game playing my style phone posting, but I'm hoping to get a couple hours tomorrow morning.

I find MiX lumping me in with the lurkers to be silly on its face. Time will tell I will blow your word count out of the water  8)

I wasn't trying to call you a lurker, but i understand that it looks like I did.

Higher post count than me? Over my dead body! :P

Why did I vote you again?

Vote: EFHW

Does this vote mean you are insisting I choose between faust and Jimmmmm, and can't look anywhere else? We have 48 hours left. Gkrieg has not gotten any attention and is being scummy. Could say the same about Lalight, in fact. I'm not going to vote faust today. I might go back to Jimmmmm. I am feeling uncomfortable ever since joth got involved.

PPE: See this post

No, not at all. Did you mean to quote the previous post?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 16, 2021, 02:40:56 pm
Does this vote mean you are insisting I choose between faust and Jimmmmm, and can't look anywhere else? We have 48 hours left. Gkrieg has not gotten any attention and is being scummy. Could say the same about Lalight, in fact. I'm not going to vote faust today. I might go back to Jimmmmm. I am feeling uncomfortable ever since joth got involved.

PPE: See this post

In what way did I, or anyone else for that matter, imply that the options were between faust and Jimmmmm?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 16, 2021, 02:41:50 pm
No, I quoted the post I intended to. What was the reason for your vote, if I am wrong that it was my leaving the Jimmmmm wagon? I might have made an erroneous assumption.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 16, 2021, 02:42:00 pm
MiX has decided he want to look at
LL/iguana/Swowl/gkrieg/e
because they weren't talked about much, then proceeded to vote for the most talked about within that group, and now is back to voting for the player who got the most votes this game and is not part of that group mentioned above - and that's after she did what he wanted and went from voting his supposed townread Jimmmmm to voting gkrieg.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 16, 2021, 02:43:46 pm
I guess that means he took my criticism to heart and decided he needs to do something to surprise me.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 16, 2021, 02:45:55 pm
No, I quoted the post I intended to. What was the reason for your vote, if I am wrong that it was my leaving the Jimmmmm wagon? I might have made an erroneous assumption.

In fact, Vote: faust. Scum or anti-Town, you don't get a free pass just because you want one.
@Jimmmmm, at what point did you start feeling angry at faust?

@faust, same question re: Jimmmmm.

I am willing to policy exile EFHW for this post.

It was for this post.

MiX has decided he want to look at
LL/iguana/Swowl/gkrieg/e
because they weren't talked about much, then proceeded to vote for the most talked about within that group, and now is back to voting for the player who got the most votes this game and is not part of that group mentioned above - and that's after she did what he wanted and went from voting his supposed townread Jimmmmm to voting gkrieg.

iguana was someone I gave a D1 pass to because I assumed they would clear themselves if town. Because they were busy, they have not done that, so I voted them. Then I realized that there's little reason to push them because they're busy (which is not something I had actually remembered when I voted them) and so I went back to my initial townread on them. I then reread gkrieg and found them to be townie. LL and e are not people I want to push today, and Swowl is not here at all. And I was thinking of voting EFHW from earlier today anyway.

I guess that means he took my criticism to heart and decided he needs to do something to surprise me.

Were you actually surprised by this?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 16, 2021, 02:49:32 pm
Swowl is not here at all.
I thought if last game taught you anything, it would be to not give people who aren't around a free pass.

I guess that means he took my criticism to heart and decided he needs to do something to surprise me.

Were you actually surprised by this?
Why do you want to know?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 16, 2021, 02:50:39 pm
Swowl is not here at all.
I thought if last game taught you anything, it would be to not give people who aren't around a free pass.

I guess that means he took my criticism to heart and decided he needs to do something to surprise me.

Were you actually surprised by this?
Why do you want to know?

Last game taught me that if you let lurkers lurk D1, you catch them D2.

Because, faust. Because. I don't think I can change my read on you anyway, but others might.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 16, 2021, 02:51:10 pm
Idk if this needs to be said to a bunch of vets, but policy exiles are scummy because they give scum cover to get someone exiled without committing to that person being scum. We get one exile per game day. Itís not pro town to use it for anything other than pursuing our collective wincon.

vote: MiX. I did apologize.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 16, 2021, 02:52:44 pm
Idk if this needs to be said to a bunch of vets, but policy exiles are scummy because they give scum cover to get someone exiled without committing to that person being scum. We get one exile per game day. Itís not pro town to use it for anything other than pursuing our collective wincon.

vote: MiX. I did apologize.

Sorry: to clarify, I'm scumreading that post. I'm not trying to policy exile you anymore.

Honestly, if we want to exile someone for thread health, Jimmmmm's the way to go.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 16, 2021, 02:53:51 pm
Honestly, if we want to exile someone for thread health, Jimmmmm's the way to go.
I had my disagreements with Jimmmmm, but this is uncalled for.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 16, 2021, 02:56:03 pm
Honestly, if we want to exile someone for thread health, Jimmmmm's the way to go.
I had my disagreements with Jimmmmm, but this is uncalled for.

Not because of him, but to allow us to see other people as scum.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 16, 2021, 02:57:39 pm
Yes, I'm sure exiling a scum will do a lot for our ability to see who the remaining scum is.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 16, 2021, 02:57:55 pm
I am not following your argument here, MiX. Can you explain what you mean? I am a fab of more active Jimmmm.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 16, 2021, 02:58:42 pm
Yes, I'm sure exiling a scum will do a lot for our ability to see who the remaining scum is.

You're clearly not trying to argue in good faith.

So are you voting Jimmmmm or me?

I am not following your argument here, MiX. Can you explain what you mean? I am a fab of more active Jimmmm.

Which one, I lost track.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 16, 2021, 02:59:53 pm
Honestly, if we want to exile someone for thread health, Jimmmmm's the way to go.
I had my disagreements with Jimmmmm, but this is uncalled for.

Not because of him, but to allow us to see other people as scum.

This one
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 16, 2021, 03:01:45 pm
Honestly, if we want to exile someone for thread health, Jimmmmm's the way to go.
I had my disagreements with Jimmmmm, but this is uncalled for.

Not because of him, but to allow us to see other people as scum.

This one

People seem to scumread Jimmmmm. This seems to be happening all the way from the start of the game. Unlike EFHW, people in this line of thinking don't seem to be thinking past it. So if this becomes a problem, we might as well exile Jimmmmm.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 16, 2021, 03:02:46 pm
People seem to scumread Jimmmmm. This seems to be happening all the way from the start of the game. Unlike EFHW, people in this line of thinking don't seem to be thinking past it. So if this becomes a problem, we might as well exile Jimmmmm.
By "people", are you referring to anyone other than me?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 16, 2021, 03:03:17 pm
People seem to scumread Jimmmmm. This seems to be happening all the way from the start of the game. Unlike EFHW, people in this line of thinking don't seem to be thinking past it. So if this becomes a problem, we might as well exile Jimmmmm.
By "people", are you referring to anyone other than me?

joth as well, it seems like.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 16, 2021, 03:04:49 pm
People seem to scumread Jimmmmm. This seems to be happening all the way from the start of the game. Unlike EFHW, people in this line of thinking don't seem to be thinking past it. So if this becomes a problem, we might as well exile Jimmmmm.
By "people", are you referring to anyone other than me?

joth as well, it seems like.
joth has definitely not been voting for (or, to my knowledge, scumreading) Jimmmmm since the start of the game. Indeed, he was part of the EFHW wagon before.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 16, 2021, 03:04:59 pm
Gkrieg doesn't have the classic "I will now reread the whole game" posts, but his posts so far seem townie. I like the EFHW opinions, for example.

I mean I did reread the game and post about it but no one seemed to respond much to the posts.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 16, 2021, 03:07:08 pm
Idk if this needs to be said to a bunch of vets, but policy exiles are scummy because they give scum cover to get someone exiled without committing to that person being scum. We get one exile per game day. Itís not pro town to use it for anything other than pursuing our collective wincon.

vote: MiX. I did apologize.

Sorry: to clarify, I'm scumreading that post. I'm not trying to policy exile you anymore.

Honestly, if we want to exile someone for thread health, Jimmmmm's the way to go.

ok, unvote
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 16, 2021, 03:08:07 pm
vote: mathdude

Are you trying to do a faust? I had to go back to page 4 (and I do 50 post pages) to find your last contributions, and math was not mentioned.

vote: gkrieg

To be fair, those contributions were from yesterday, so it's not like I haven't been doing anything.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 16, 2021, 03:08:59 pm
Jimmmmm is a very easy D1 misexile. He can't solve then and so he doesn't have much else other than activity tells. It's also a voice worth shutting down for later in the game. This is similar to gkrieg, honestly.

Yes he can be scum here. But there's not much else saying he's scum other than that.

Faust is only reading half of my posts and that's super townie. I understand scumreading me for buddying him, but saying I've been overemphasizing being town!MiX just ignores everything I've done into "it's townie, therefore it's scummy".

Ok, so the scum team is MiX-Jimmmm and ... who else do we think?

How to scum:

- Buddy faust
- Vote partner
- Wait for partner to get in an argument with faust
- Say they're both town and unvote
- Open up the option to bus
- ???
- Let Jimmmmm be exiled D1
- Infinite towncred

The mathdude wagon is extremely interesting. It's entirely composed of what faust would call lurkers.

Too interesting to give half-baked opinions on it.

Is he scummy? Or he just has a scummy wagon?

He, not e

Neither. Not sure.

You can brutally bus a partner D1 and ride the towncred to a victory. Been done with me before.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mathdude on September 16, 2021, 03:09:17 pm
Wow, a lot going on today.  I like it.  It actually gives us something to look back at D2!  (Granted, I was pretty poor at putting the pieces together last game, so there's nowhere to go but up).

I do like that Jimmmmm's trying to be active, but...
I looked at the last 2 of his scum games: RMM56 and RMM54. Jimmmm was Serial Killer in RMM56, so that's maybe not the best representation. In that game, there is definitely a flurry of activity from Jimmmmm after he gets his first wagon (read from here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20258.msg843931#msg843931)).

In RMM54, he similarly reacts with wallposting to pressure, see e.g. this post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19849.msg813793#msg813793) coming after a push, which is significantly longer than anything he posted before in that game. It's followed by more rereads.

This seems pretty convincing.  This is almost exactly what seemed to happen here!

Vote: Jimmmmm
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 16, 2021, 03:11:24 pm
Gkrieg doesn't have the classic "I will now reread the whole game" posts, but his posts so far seem townie. I like the EFHW opinions, for example.

I mean I did reread the game and post about it but no one seemed to respond much to the posts.

Oh yeah lol I could only notice once I saw the timestamps.

Wow, a lot going on today.  I like it.  It actually gives us something to look back at D2!  (Granted, I was pretty poor at putting the pieces together last game, so there's nowhere to go but up).

I do like that Jimmmmm's trying to be active, but...
I looked at the last 2 of his scum games: RMM56 and RMM54. Jimmmm was Serial Killer in RMM56, so that's maybe not the best representation. In that game, there is definitely a flurry of activity from Jimmmmm after he gets his first wagon (read from here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20258.msg843931#msg843931)).

In RMM54, he similarly reacts with wallposting to pressure, see e.g. this post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19849.msg813793#msg813793) coming after a push, which is significantly longer than anything he posted before in that game. It's followed by more rereads.

This seems pretty convincing.  This is almost exactly what seemed to happen here!

Vote: Jimmmmm

This is part of why I'm okay with a Jimmmmm exile.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 16, 2021, 03:14:46 pm
We should look at LL/iguana/Swowl/gkrieg/e then. Yes, I excluded Didds, but only because I actually remember joth's post about her.

We have a little over 2 days (about 52 hours, I believe).  I'm not saying we shouldn't change directions - there is still enough time for that.  In fact, we should definitely look at these people.  But we need to do it soon, and get responses and opinions today, rather than waiting until the final few hours.

I believe there was an early mini-wagon on iguana, that fizzled as quick as it started.

Were there votes on e today too?  Or am I thinking of the previous game?

And someone policy voted for LL early, but that wasn't anything for discussion, I don't believe.

This post is why I'm voting mathdude. Deciding to EOL, and actively pushing people toward it is a "townie" thing to do that scum tend to do more than town. Specifically so they can avoid commenting on other wagons, or so they can look like they are doing something without actually doing something. Specifically when they don't offer any direction on which of the ~6 people that could be voted for.

Especially saying, "we should definitely look at these people [...] soon, and get responses and opinions today, rather than waiting until the final few hours." instead of saying who out of those people is scummy.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 16, 2021, 03:18:39 pm
Gkrieg doesn't have the classic "I will now reread the whole game" posts, but his posts so far seem townie. I like the EFHW opinions, for example.

Also, what has made my posts so far townie?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 16, 2021, 03:22:36 pm
so anyway faust is town & Didds is town & MiX is ??? but he's being pleasant and helpful.

idk, nobody's pinging me overmuch, which makes sense because none of you are terrible at this game.

Vote: EFHW
Wait a minute - are you salty too?
Because there can't be anything in the current game that is scummy.

This doesn't seem like scum!EFHW. Too bold.

This post seems genuine. You're just throwing it out there: EFHW not scum. I like it a lot.

I feel like I'm seeing a lot more of EFHW D1 than is usual.

With your defense of EFHW, there is no reason to post this if you're partners. So, why are you defending EFHW if you're scum? The answer is: you're not, because you're not scum.

vote: mathdude

There is no reason for scum!you to go after math in particular, and I think math gets town's vote more than scum.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 16, 2021, 03:50:25 pm
Honestly, if we want to exile someone for thread health, Jimmmmm's the way to go.
I had my disagreements with Jimmmmm, but this is uncalled for.

Not because of him, but to allow us to see other people as scum.

This one

People seem to scumread Jimmmmm. This seems to be happening all the way from the start of the game. Unlike EFHW, people in this line of thinking don't seem to be thinking past it. So if this becomes a problem, we might as well exile Jimmmmm.

This is absolutely terrible in my opinion. "Oh, feels like everyone thinks they are scum, let's exile and find out"

Feels like the same reason MiX exiled me D1 in wizard of Oz. And then exiled Galzria D2. It felt as though that line of thought is exactly what put town in such a hole they couldn't dig out D3

Let's exile the stuck in the mud people, not their target.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 16, 2021, 04:03:24 pm
The case on Jimmmmm is not just that he's being active. It's that he's being active in a certain way in response to pressure that is consistent with his past play and inconsistent with this past town play. That's like a very good day 1 case. I appreciate faust doing the work to cross-reference it.

On top of that, he has:

-advocated for a policy exile in a really noncommittal way
-OMGUS voted for faust during their exchange
-been soft-defended by MiX in exactly the way that scum defends a partner (trying to deflect the exile without actually defending the player as townie).

There's like a lot here, fam. This isn't just nonsense.

Ah, yes. I see the lock tight case now.
-policy exile talk is just bad play, but both town and scum engage in bad play
-omgus is what it is, again, not scum or town tell to me
-and partner calling!

What a great case.

I personally think the first two really point more toward an engaged town!jimmm that got himself in trouble through being active. (MiX should understand getting himself in trouble through activity)

So.... Next case? That was pretty weak on jimmmmm
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on September 16, 2021, 04:34:43 pm
You can brutally bus a partner D1 and ride the towncred to a victory. Been done with me before.

I did that a couple of times. Also vote: MiX

I would love to see a Mix or faust exile. not Jimmmmm, no.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 16, 2021, 04:35:36 pm
I might go back to Jimmmmm. I am feeling uncomfortable ever since joth got involved.

This is exactly the opposite of what I'm trying to accomplish.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 16, 2021, 04:53:02 pm
-policy exile talk is just bad play, but both town and scum engage in bad play
-omgus is what it is, again, not scum or town tell to me

Wrong and wrong.

What does scum want to do? They want to

A) Make sure the exile is a town player
B) Make sure that they don't appear to be the one who drove that exile when the player flipped town.

So any strategy that helps accomplish both those goals is not just bad play, but scummy play.

Policy exile talk is the perfect example of this -- you're literally saying 'we should exile this person' without saying 'this person is scum'. So there's no backlash if you're wrong. You can just say 'It's a shame they were town, but we're better off without them.' So that's scummy.

OMGUS is a little different, because it's not generally something scum does intentionally and tactically, but it is something scum does more often than town because it's an emotional reaction associated with emotions scum are more likely to feel. It's basically the same argument as "defensiveness as scum tell".

Everyone will get defensive when they think they're going to be exiled. But for scum, being exiled is a much worse hit for their team. They also feel more of an affinity for their team because they know who they are and have actually worked with them as a team. So when you think you might be the day 1 exile and you're scum, there's just more pressure all around. Getting killed hurts your team more, and you're more worried about letting down your team. So you're more likely to respond with more frustration to less pressure. This is, in my mind, the single strongest scum tel, although it does diminish with player experience to some extent.

An OMGUS vote, just to close the loop, is not just any vote for someone who's voting for you. It's a reactive, frustration-driven vote for someone who is voting for you. In this case, Jimmmmm sort of disguised it as a real vote, which is pretty common, but it read to me as an OMGUS vote based on the context and the timing.

TL;DR both these things are scum tells, not just bad play, don't @ me, let's exile Jim
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 16, 2021, 04:55:25 pm
Honestly, if we want to exile someone for thread health, Jimmmmm's the way to go.
I had my disagreements with Jimmmmm, but this is uncalled for.

Not because of him, but to allow us to see other people as scum.

This one

People seem to scumread Jimmmmm. This seems to be happening all the way from the start of the game. Unlike EFHW, people in this line of thinking don't seem to be thinking past it. So if this becomes a problem, we might as well exile Jimmmmm.

This is absolutely terrible in my opinion. "Oh, feels like everyone thinks they are scum, let's exile and find out"

Feels like the same reason MiX exiled me D1 in wizard of Oz. And then exiled Galzria D2. It felt as though that line of thought is exactly what put town in such a hole they couldn't dig out D3

Let's exile the stuck in the mud people, not their target.

Correct. This was not why town lost.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Swowl on September 16, 2021, 05:10:15 pm
Ok here. More accurately Iím at the airport but I have the last day and a half loaded up on my phone so I will read on the flight and then jump in.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 16, 2021, 05:15:35 pm
I might go back to Jimmmmm. I am feeling uncomfortable ever since joth got involved.

This is exactly the opposite of what I'm trying to accomplish.

Of course. Your arguments are not very strong though, because Jimmmmm is an experienced player and OMGUS and policy voting are newbie reactions. This makes me concerned that you are scum trying to misexile him.

I'm talking at cross-purposes with myself here, however. I actually do think Jimmmmm is scummy  -- because I think I see careful maneuvering that an experienced player who hasn't played for a bit might try. Pick a fight, be righteous about how town should play, buddy someone who voted you (me), and seem to move on with a level head.

vote: Jimmmmm
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 16, 2021, 06:33:57 pm
I think this is rightÖ

Vote count 1.WCD

EFHW (2): WestCoastDidds, MiX
Jimmmmm (4): jotheonah, faust, mathdude, EFHW
faust (1): Jimmmmm
mathdude (3): 2.71828....., iguanaiguana, gkrieg13
MiX (1):  LaLight

Not Voting (1): Swowl
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 16, 2021, 08:24:47 pm
I wanted to contrast this with a town game of Jimmmmm's, and in BM32, he was the D1 misexile, but  at no point did that pressure cause a flurry of activity like in the scum games I referenced.

BM32 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20724.0) is not an example of anything. It was a Bastard game in which I had what felt like a crippling post restriction and I was somewhat relieved when it was over for me.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 16, 2021, 08:56:12 pm
Jimmmm was Serial Killer in RMM56, so that's maybe not the best representation. In that game, there is definitely a flurry of activity from Jimmmmm after he gets his first wagon (read from here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20258.msg843931#msg843931)).

Ah yes, this game I really tried to put in more effort than normal, as indicated here:

Okay new plan. Trying to follow along isn't really working, so I'm going to try to get through a re-read of each player before deadline. We have about 5 days, so that means 3-4 re-reads per day. Starting with Dylan.

If you look at my whole game, I have several flurries of activity in the form of wallpost re-reads wherein I try to follow this plan. After the point you mentioned, I made one long post responding point-by-point to joth, and two smaller posts responding to hypercube, and then continued what I'd been previously doing.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: Dylan32 on September 16, 2021, 09:27:14 pm
As Lime Green looked back at the door, the lights faded out. Just before their vision completely vanished, they saw the silhouette of somebody slowly approaching...

Vote Count 1.5

iguanaiguana (1):
EFHW (2): WestCoastDidds, MiX
Jimmmmm (4): jotheonah, faust, mathdude, EFHW
faust (2): Jimmmmm
mathdude (3): 2.71828....., iguanaiguana, gkrieg13
MiX (1): LaLight

Not Voting (1): Swowl

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to exile. Day 1 ends September 18, 2021, 03:00:00 pm
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 16, 2021, 09:41:21 pm
In RMM54, he similarly reacts with wallposting to pressure, see e.g. this post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19849.msg813793#msg813793) coming after a push, which is significantly longer than anything he posted before in that game. It's followed by more rereads.

This game I received Day 1 votes from 3 people and my Day 1 consisted of about 6 posts, ending with:

Checking in. I'm away at the moment; I get home tomorrow so I should catch up properly by the weekend.

And starting Day 2 with:

Checking in. I'm away at the moment; I get home tomorrow so I should catch up properly by the weekend.

After such a Day 1, I am definitely looking to be more active for the rest of the game, regardless of alignment.


I had more activity in the second half of the game, and the majority of that was concentrated on rereading people. My #554 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19849.msg813512#msg813512) came before all but one of the Day 2 votes on me, and while it wasn't as long as the mentioned post, it was far longer and more substantial than anything before it. If there was a line between my inactivity and my activity that game, it was this post.

I voted for shraeye (who admittedly had just voted for me) due to his interactions with raerae, and he and I later had some back and forth which resulted in him voting for me again, but it didn't last for very long and soon enough I was re-reading someone else. Aside from the argument with shraeye, which started from responses to my giving reads, I don't see anywhere where I engaged with the pressure on me or those applying the pressure.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 16, 2021, 09:45:49 pm
Also, and I can't stress this enough, I have felt zero pressure this game from faust or MiX's votes. The most pressure I've felt is from EFHW, since she made a reasonable point that I could very much see people agreeing with and exiling me for.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 16, 2021, 09:48:16 pm
The case on Jimmmmm is not just that he's being active. It's that he's being active in a certain way in response to pressure that is consistent with his past play and inconsistent with this past town play. That's like a very good day 1 case. I appreciate faust doing the work to cross-reference it.

Are you only going by faust's examples? Do you agree with them?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 16, 2021, 10:03:50 pm
I'm looking through some previous games, and the relevance of this made me laugh:

My #347 sounds harsh, but I actually like Jimmmm and think he's a smart guy. Just typically unengaged until crunchtime (and liable to being mislynched for it.)

I've realise what I really need to get into a game is for someone to come out gunning for me. It gives me something to focus on apart from "this is a big game with lots of people and I don't even know where to start".

That's actually enough for me to

Vote: Jimmmmmmm

Let's see what you got.

A vote is not gunning for me.

From my PoV:

- If you're town, you need an incentive to play D1. A vote on you means other town/scum can vote on you, creating a sizeable wagon. I think that would force you to pay attention to defend yourself, thus generate more pro-town content from you.

- If you're scum, you need to feel some pressure, even if it's just a vote now, others might join the wagon, forcing you to actually play D1, which, hopefully, makes you drop some scumslips or useful interactions that'll be useful for future days.

So it's strictly better for me to vote for you. Unless I misunderstood what gunning means (maybe it's just someone saying "YOU'RE SCUM YOU'RE SCUM HERE'S 50 REASONS WHY" but I hope not because I can't do that...), this seems to be foolproof, right?

That's more like it. :P
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 16, 2021, 11:07:00 pm
The game that came to mind as feeling the most like this one for me is Mafia and the Chocolate Factory (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9687.0). Admittedly that was a very long time ago, and I played a good game that game (would have been MVP if Town had won); I'm not suggesting I'm playing a good game this game.

Basically I got a scum result on ash Night 1, and spent Day 2 arguing with him, waiting until most of the way through the Day before claiming the result.

The game included arguments such as this (note that Robz was also Town):

Jimm, I really think is scum.

First off, this is a level of activity I've never seen from Jimm, or least not in recent memory. Jimm is usually town, he usually is pleasant, psuedo-lurking. He's very active here, and this questioning strategy, I've never seen from him. I've been on him since the beginning because of our exchange over me being considered an IC.

Thoughts...

Abnormally high for Jimmmm.
...

It's abnormal because he's scum. Go with the simple explanation!

It's not just that town Jimm is a lurker, it's that his content is mild and unmemorable and inoffensive.

Here, you have been in the driver's seat, and you are raising questions like I've never seen from you before. Yo are different, AND you had the scummy reaction to the prospective Morgrim lynch.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 16, 2021, 11:10:17 pm
In RMM54, he similarly reacts with wallposting to pressure, see e.g. this post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19849.msg813793#msg813793) coming after a push, which is significantly longer than anything he posted before in that game. It's followed by more rereads.

This game I received Day 1 votes from 3 people and my Day 1 consisted of about 6 posts, ending with:

Checking in. I'm away at the moment; I get home tomorrow so I should catch up properly by the weekend.

And starting Day 2 with:

Checking in. I'm away at the moment; I get home tomorrow so I should catch up properly by the weekend.

After such a Day 1, I am definitely looking to be more active for the rest of the game, regardless of alignment.


I had more activity in the second half of the game, and the majority of that was concentrated on rereading people. My #554 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19849.msg813512#msg813512) came before all but one of the Day 2 votes on me, and while it wasn't as long as the mentioned post, it was far longer and more substantial than anything before it. If there was a line between my inactivity and my activity that game, it was this post.

I voted for shraeye (who admittedly had just voted for me) due to his interactions with raerae, and he and I later had some back and forth which resulted in him voting for me again, but it didn't last for very long and soon enough I was re-reading someone else. Aside from the argument with shraeye, which started from responses to my giving reads, I don't see anywhere where I engaged with the pressure on me or those applying the pressure.

Whoops, just realised I put the same quote in twice. The "starting Day 2" post should be:

Sorry, behind again. I was mid-way through catching up when the site went down. At this stage the case on raerae seems a bit of a stretch to me but I'll try to look into it more tomorrow night.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 16, 2021, 11:19:26 pm
because I think I see careful maneuvering that an experienced player who hasn't played for a bit might try. Pick a fight, be righteous about how town should play, buddy someone who voted you (me), and seem to move on with a level head.

Nothing about my game has been careful. I am definitely capable of playing the careful scum game. Picking a fight with faust of all people is not the way to do that.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Swowl on September 17, 2021, 01:01:35 am
I am home and I am caught up. I spent the flight reading, and I have thoughts, but I have been traveling all day. Many apologies, but I need 8 hours and I will get thoughts out first thing in the morning.

Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 17, 2021, 01:22:34 am
I wanted to contrast this with a town game of Jimmmmm's, and in BM32, he was the D1 misexile, but  at no point did that pressure cause a flurry of activity like in the scum games I referenced.

BM32 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20724.0) is not an example of anything. It was a Bastard game in which I had what felt like a crippling post restriction and I was somewhat relieved when it was over for me.
You are free to offer up a better example.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 17, 2021, 01:27:37 am
Basically I got a scum result on ash Night 1, and spent Day 2 arguing with him, waiting until most of the way through the Day before claiming the result.
Sorry, but I'm not convinced that a game in which you had a scum result on another player is the best comparison to this situation. Obviously you are going to be more forceful under those circumstances.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 17, 2021, 01:28:19 am
You are free to offer up a better example.

I have; regardless a better example is not necessary to justify that something is a bad example.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 17, 2021, 01:28:54 am
Basically I got a scum result on ash Night 1, and spent Day 2 arguing with him, waiting until most of the way through the Day before claiming the result.
Sorry, but I'm not convinced that a game in which you had a scum result on another player is the best comparison to this situation. Obviously you are going to be more forceful under those circumstances.

You're free to offer up a better example  :P
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 17, 2021, 02:58:00 am
What does scum want to do? They want to

A) Make sure the exile is a town player
B) Make sure that they don't appear to be the one who drove that exile when the player flipped town.

So any strategy that helps accomplish both those goals is not just bad play, but scummy play.

Trying to exile Town faust with minimal support based entirely on argumentation is a mountain that scum me just does not need.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 17, 2021, 03:01:26 am

I started thinking, "Maybe I should try this sort of thing in my next scum game, so I can point to this game as a defense," but then was like, "Nope."
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 17, 2021, 03:42:29 am
Vote: MiX
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 17, 2021, 03:44:03 am
Examining this case.

Everything MiX has done this game feels like he's performing town. The overinflated townread on me. The pivot toward "exile all lurkers" (without using that terminology). Nothing MiX has done this game is surprising because he's not actually concerned with finding scum.


The Townread posts I found:

Oh man, feels good to have town!faust back. Welcome!

MiX is scum but it's not the exile we want right now.

Amazing.

Vote: Jimmmmm

Vote: Jimmmmm

I have reached the critical point of faust that I only want to misexile them.

Faust, do you think this discussion will help catch a wolf?


I don't know about you, faust, but this post tells me you're both town.

I am disappointed in you, MiX. Two people having a drawn-out emotional discussion and then a third player going "I think this is TvT" is such a meme. I expected better.

It's a meme for a reason. I think your particular way of reacting to Jimmmmm makes him town. And of course, it makes you town too.

But I don't really like how there's only been 2 wagons this entire day, and at least one of them seems to be entirely at random.


He waa obviously scum last game. There are key differences in town!faust and scum!faust that makes this strategy pro-town.

I can't pretend to understand MiX's initial Townread on faust or how serious it was. After that it was the Town v Town conclusion, which is not an unreasonable takeaway from an argument. I'm not seeing the overinflation, but perhaps one of them can help me read between the lines.


I guess the "exile all lurkers" thing is referring to this?

Can anyone remember reads being given to players that aren't faust/Jimmmmm/EFHW/MiX/joth/math?

I did scumread e, but I can't remember much else.

joth says Didds is Towny, although that wavered a bit.

Didds says that LL and iguana are Towny (along with others on the list).

Thanks.

We should look at LL/iguana/Swowl/gkrieg/e then. Yes, I excluded Didds, but only because I actually remember joth's post about her.

This seems to be wanting to exile someone other than those who have already been suspected. While there's a correlation between activity and being suspected, I'm not sure this is the same as "exile all lurkers".

Also, given that most of this came after faust's initial "MiX is scum" statement, I see no reason to believe that it's not confirmation bias at best, or worse simply trying to justify his strategy.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on September 17, 2021, 04:48:33 am
I don't see myself as lurker in this game.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 17, 2021, 04:57:17 am
Also, given that most of this came after faust's initial "MiX is scum" statement, I see no reason to believe that it's not confirmation bias at best, or worse simply trying to justify his strategy.
You know, you really know how to make me regret giving reasons.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 17, 2021, 04:59:18 am
I don't see myself as lurker in this game.
No offense but I doubt self-perception is a good indicator here. This is akin to noone seeing themselves as a bad person (more precisely, some people do but they are rarely the actual bad people).
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 17, 2021, 05:09:37 am
Also, given that most of this came after faust's initial "MiX is scum" statement, I see no reason to believe that it's not confirmation bias at best, or worse simply trying to justify his strategy.
You know, you really know how to make me regret giving reasons.

Why?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on September 17, 2021, 05:12:16 am
I don't see myself as lurker in this game.
No offense but I doubt self-perception is a good indicator here. This is akin to noone seeing themselves as a bad person (more precisely, some people do but they are rarely the actual bad people).

I know, it's just I know for a fact that I am checking this game much more often than my last n games (excluding legacy). And also every time I am checking, I post something.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 17, 2021, 05:17:52 am
Basically I got a scum result on ash Night 1, and spent Day 2 arguing with him, waiting until most of the way through the Day before claiming the result.
Sorry, but I'm not convinced that a game in which you had a scum result on another player is the best comparison to this situation. Obviously you are going to be more forceful under those circumstances.

I think a major similarity between the two games is level of confidence. As Town I'm rarely confident of my reads. As scum I'm not confident of my convincingness and know not to be confident in my reads. In the other game I knew I was right and so was not going to back down. Here I'm not confident that you're scum, but I'm confident that your strategy is harmful and should be resisted. In the scum games you mentioned, I addressed the specific points against me and then continued what I was otherwise doing.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 17, 2021, 06:19:37 am
Also, given that most of this came after faust's initial "MiX is scum" statement, I see no reason to believe that it's not confirmation bias at best, or worse simply trying to justify his strategy.
You know, you really know how to make me regret giving reasons.

Why?
I give reasons and you basically say "oh doesn't matter, it all confirmation bias". Like, if that's the level of engagement I can expect then I might as well not give my reasons.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 17, 2021, 06:23:42 am
What about the rest of what I said?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 17, 2021, 06:32:41 am
Also, why would you want to act differently based on the opinion of one person you say is scum?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 17, 2021, 06:38:09 am
What about the rest of what I said?
The rest of what you said was picking apart my wording choices without engaging with the actual substance of what I said.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 17, 2021, 06:41:15 am
Also, why would you want to act differently based on the opinion of one person you say is scum?
I'm no longer voting you, if you noticed. I'm cured!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 17, 2021, 06:41:35 am
You don't think I'm scum?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 17, 2021, 06:42:38 am
You don't think I'm scum?
Well, I believe you are more likely town than scum.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 17, 2021, 06:56:43 am
What about the rest of what I said?
The rest of what you said was picking apart my wording choices without engaging with the actual substance of what I said.

Must have missed the substance of what you said then. I'll try again.

"Everything MiX has done this game feels like he's performing town."
This feels like a heading rather than substance (ie what will follow is how MiX is is performing town)".

"The overinflated townread on me."
I guess the substance is the suggestion that MiX has a stronger Townread on you than he ought to if he was Town. His posts early in the Day make this difficult for me to judge because they provide no context but seem confident. If you're talking about these posts it would great if you could indicate how they show an overinflated Townread, and how you know how seriously to take them. If you're talking about the post-argument posts suggesting we're both Town it'd be great if you said more about that since you didn't say much at the time other than the argument is NAI and MiX's response is a meme.

'The pivot toward "exile all lurkers" (without using that terminology).'
I didn't mean to harp on the "exile all lurkers" term if that's what you're talking about. Whether we're talking about lurkers or just those who have avoided the limelight, why is it scummy of MiX to decide that he wants to look at and/or exile someone from among them?

"Nothing MiX has done this game is surprising because he's not actually concerned with finding scum."
This feels like a conclusion rather than substance.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 17, 2021, 07:27:10 am
I don't see myself as lurker in this game.
No offense but I doubt self-perception is a good indicator here. This is akin to noone seeing themselves as a bad person (more precisely, some people do but they are rarely the actual bad people).

LaLight isn't a lurker this game. They're just flying under the radar. Same for everyone in that list (except Swowl and iguana are actually lurking).
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 17, 2021, 07:34:14 am
What does scum want to do? They want to

A) Make sure the exile is a town player
B) Make sure that they don't appear to be the one who drove that exile when the player flipped town.

So any strategy that helps accomplish both those goals is not just bad play, but scummy play.

Trying to exile Town faust with minimal support based entirely on argumentation is a mountain that scum me just does not need.

Don't know about joth, but I never thought you were trying to exile faust.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 17, 2021, 07:36:05 am
I don't see myself as lurker in this game.
No offense but I doubt self-perception is a good indicator here. This is akin to noone seeing themselves as a bad person (more precisely, some people do but they are rarely the actual bad people).

LaLight isn't a lurker this game. They're just flying under the radar. Same for everyone in that list (except Swowl and iguana are actually lurking).
They aren't lurking, either. They have been not available.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on September 17, 2021, 08:04:21 am
They're just flying under the radar.

I admit that. I find it hard to engage in discussions D1 and meta-discussions as a whole.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 17, 2021, 08:59:00 am
Ok, that was a really admirable defense Jimmmmm mounted. ButÖ itís the sort of admirable defense I tend to mount as scum. But I feel like an ass saying that because I get how it feels like confirmation bias from Jimís seat.

And yeah, I am being a bit stubborn. But with good reason. I feel like I always see this day 1 strat of poking around until we find a consensus exile, usually a last-minute one. And of course thatís always town because that strategy gives scum a lot of power. So Iíve been really trying to stick to my guns here.

But also, Iíve spotted a few things now in Faustís play that just seem sloppy as town (which is out of character) or subtly manipulative as scum (which is in character). Things like:

- the aforementioned false dichotomy on EFHW
- selecting Jim games for comp but not mentioning relative things like posting restrictions and bastard games

Idk, dollars to donuts I think one of {Jim, faust} is probably scum. But thatís always a dangerous road too.

I think Iím way too Iím my head and I need to re-read or something.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 17, 2021, 09:14:03 am
What about the rest of what I said?
The rest of what you said was picking apart my wording choices without engaging with the actual substance of what I said.

Must have missed the substance of what you said then. I'll try again.

"Everything MiX has done this game feels like he's performing town."
This feels like a heading rather than substance (ie what will follow is how MiX is is performing town)".

"The overinflated townread on me."
I guess the substance is the suggestion that MiX has a stronger Townread on you than he ought to if he was Town. His posts early in the Day make this difficult for me to judge because they provide no context but seem confident. If you're talking about these posts it would great if you could indicate how they show an overinflated Townread, and how you know how seriously to take them. If you're talking about the post-argument posts suggesting we're both Town it'd be great if you said more about that since you didn't say much at the time other than the argument is NAI and MiX's response is a meme.

'The pivot toward "exile all lurkers" (without using that terminology).'
I didn't mean to harp on the "exile all lurkers" term if that's what you're talking about. Whether we're talking about lurkers or just those who have avoided the limelight, why is it scummy of MiX to decide that he wants to look at and/or exile someone from among them?

"Nothing MiX has done this game is surprising because he's not actually concerned with finding scum."
This feels like a conclusion rather than substance.
Yes I think you missed the substance. In my view the substance is exactly the two sentences you labeled "not substance". The other two are just examples of that behaviour. So talking about how I am so easy to read and he's figured my out and I'm town is like trying to convey that town!MiX swagger, but it's does not ring genuine. Trying to pivot in the face of two long-standing wagons has the same ring of something that scum!MiX thinks will look townie, but his heart isn't in it, and it shows.

Ultimately it's all gut feeling of MiX not being genuine, which is why it does not do any good to give these reasons. When I posted I just wanted to give people something to focus their attention on, but I can't explain to you how it is scummy if you don't see it for yourself.

What is your read on MiX anyway?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 17, 2021, 09:24:57 am
I guess the problem is the two sentences you say are substance are the two vague ones that I don't know what to do with, so I'd rather deal with the examples, which I'm not convinced by. I think I have some understanding of where you're coming from now though.

Regarding my read on MiX, I'm trying not to be influenced by his Townread on me but boy is that hard sometimes.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 17, 2021, 09:31:04 am
Yes I think you missed the substance. In my view the substance is exactly the two sentences you labeled "not substance". The other two are just examples of that behaviour. So talking about how I am so easy to read and he's figured my out and I'm town is like trying to convey that town!MiX swagger, but it's does not ring genuine. Trying to pivot in the face of two long-standing wagons has the same ring of something that scum!MiX thinks will look townie, but his heart isn't in it, and it shows.

Ultimately it's all gut feeling of MiX not being genuine, which is why it does not do any good to give these reasons. When I posted I just wanted to give people something to focus their attention on, but I can't explain to you how it is scummy if you don't see it for yourself.

What is your read on MiX anyway?

I have no idea what else I can do this game that helps you townread me. I haven't even been performative.

What do you think of my gkrieg reread? What do you think of my joth scumread? What do you think of my read on e being partnered with joth? What do you think of my EFHW scumread? What do you think of my Jimmmmm townread (although you probably already talked about this)?

Do you not think we should talk about people that have been completely ignored today? Do you think there's scum in faust/Jimmmmm/EFHW/MiX/math/joth with 100% certainty?

And how can you seriously look at this D1 and the previous game's D1 and not say you've been much more townie here than before?

Answer me some of these questions, and then you can tell me I'm scum. Before that, I'm just town.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 17, 2021, 09:32:02 am
Answer me some of these questions, and then you can tell me I'm scum. Before that, I'm just town.
You're scum.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 17, 2021, 09:32:45 am
I'm probably against exiling MiX for now. He's one of those people who I really don't know how to get a read on, to the point where it doesn't really feel worth trying.

Things seem to be improving at the moment (not just because I'm looking less likely to be exiled than I was). I'll spend some time tomorrow having a good look at alternatives.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 17, 2021, 09:33:19 am
Answer me some of these questions, and then you can tell me I'm scum. Before that, I'm just town.
You're scum.

No.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 17, 2021, 09:34:24 am
I mean honestly this should be the cherry on top of the town!faust cake.

If I die today because, I don't know, reasons, just sheep me on faust. I don't even care.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 17, 2021, 09:35:44 am
Ok, that was a really admirable defense Jimmmmm mounted. ButÖ itís the sort of admirable defense I tend to mount as scum. But I feel like an ass saying that because I get how it feels like confirmation bias from Jimís seat.

I appreciate the sentiment nonetheless. Being understood and disbelieved/disagreed with in this game beats the heck out of feeling like we're typing past each other.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 17, 2021, 09:38:03 am
Also, given that most of this came after faust's initial "MiX is scum" statement, I see no reason to believe that it's not confirmation bias at best, or worse simply trying to justify his strategy.
You know, you really know how to make me regret giving reasons.

This made me laugh!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: MiX on September 17, 2021, 09:41:38 am
Let's just look at the wagons:

iguanaiguana (1):
EFHW (2): WestCoastDidds, MiX
Jimmmmm (4): jotheonah, faust, mathdude, EFHW
faust (2): Jimmmmm
mathdude (3): 2.71828....., iguanaiguana, gkrieg13
MiX (1): LaLight

Not Voting (1): Swowl

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to exile. Day 1 ends September 18, 2021, 03:00:00 pm

So there's 4 viable wagons: EFHW, Jimmmmm, math and MiX. Out of these, EFHW is the only one that can be scum. There, I said it. I'll just reread all of them anyway.

The people under the radar have either been on VLA or are actually townie (or both, see: Didds) so we can let them slide for today. faust is town so let's not do that, besides it's never correct to exile them D1. And I kinda agree with e that joth should get a D1 pass, but it's mostly because I can't see scum!joth flipping today.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 17, 2021, 09:43:50 am
I can't see scum!joth flipping today.

Do you mean this if joth is scum you can't see him being exiled Today?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: MiX on September 17, 2021, 09:44:11 am
I can't see scum!joth flipping today.

Do you mean this if joth is scum you can't see him being exiled Today?

Yes.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 17, 2021, 09:44:33 am
I can't see scum!joth flipping today.

Do you mean that if joth is scum you can't see him being exiled Today?

EBWOP
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 17, 2021, 09:44:45 am
Jimmmm, can you go read EFHW and see what you think? I need some fresh eyes and you have time on your hands.

MiX, how are you feeling about Joth?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 17, 2021, 09:46:00 am
Jimmmm, can you go read EFHW and see what you think? I need some fresh eyes and you have time on your hands.

MiX, how are you feeling about Joth?

Null IIRC, but honestly I forgot.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 17, 2021, 09:46:43 am
Sorry, got PPEd thereÖ.

MiXÖ. Whatís your sense on EFHW? I really donít want to be stubborn, but I donít think jimmm or faust are scum. And Iím just not sure about Joth.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 17, 2021, 09:47:30 am
Jimmmm, can you go read EFHW and see what you think? I need some fresh eyes and you have time on your hands.

I kind of did, at least regarding the defensiveness case. I'm make sure to look at her tomorrow. (As always, annoying that it's bedtime just as activity is picking up.)
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 17, 2021, 09:49:48 am
Sorry, got PPEd thereÖ.

MiXÖ. Whatís your sense on EFHW? I really donít want to be stubborn, but I donít think jimmm or faust are scum. And Iím just not sure about Joth.

In fact, Vote: faust. Scum or anti-Town, you don't get a free pass just because you want one.
@Jimmmmm, at what point did you start feeling angry at faust?

@faust, same question re: Jimmmmm.

I'm scumreading the hell out of this post: it serves no purpose and simply extends a discussion that isn't productive. It sounds like the perfect post for scum!EFHW to do if both faust and Jimmmmm are town (which I think they are).

And I'm also sheeping you.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 17, 2021, 09:50:13 am
Who else were the current wagons? Oh, math. HmmmÖ. I havenít carefully considered Math.

The case there was he was all meta and not moving the game forward?

Iím not sure that is worse than the other under the radars who are not moving the game forward. Is it worse to be trying to engage than just not around?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 17, 2021, 09:54:18 am
vote:  EFHW
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 17, 2021, 09:56:48 am
Sorry, got PPEd thereÖ.

MiXÖ. Whatís your sense on EFHW? I really donít want to be stubborn, but I donít think jimmm or faust are scum. And Iím just not sure about Joth.

In fact, Vote: faust. Scum or anti-Town, you don't get a free pass just because you want one.
@Jimmmmm, at what point did you start feeling angry at faust?

@faust, same question re: Jimmmmm.

I'm scumreading the hell out of this post: it serves no purpose and simply extends a discussion that isn't productive. It sounds like the perfect post for scum!EFHW to do if both faust and Jimmmmm are town (which I think they are).

And I'm also sheeping you.

I think if the criteria is not moving the game forward (what faust said math was doing), she meets it. If the criteria is not scumhunting, I think she meets that, too. She has asked very few questions and some of them kept us spinning, like the way is faust mad at Jimís no vice versa questions. Iguana indicated in regard to the defensiveness line, that she ha been playing defense meaning that she is only responding to people and not advancing things on her own. So, while there is nothing scummy, I donít see anything towny.

BUT, as she point out, I have a hard time letting her start with a blank slate, largely because when she is scum, I am town or 3p, alive at the end, and then she wins. So, Iíve got a chip on my shoulder.

I donít want to be pubby! Convinced of my own rightness even when itís wrong and not helpful as a result. So, if someone really thinks sheís town, tell me why.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 17, 2021, 09:59:10 am
A million typos. Sorry! On my phone at the doctors office.

faust, besides MiX, who is on your scummy list?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 17, 2021, 10:00:54 am
vote:  EFHW

Whyís that?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 17, 2021, 10:12:32 am
vote:  EFHW

Oh, this is a scumslip from joth.

I wonder if scum!joth's still this obvious...
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 17, 2021, 10:25:00 am
faust, besides MiX, who is on your scummy list?
Why do you want to know?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 17, 2021, 11:16:23 am
Sorry, got PPEd thereÖ.

MiXÖ. Whatís your sense on EFHW? I really donít want to be stubborn, but I donít think jimmm or faust are scum. And Iím just not sure about Joth.

In fact, Vote: faust. Scum or anti-Town, you don't get a free pass just because you want one.
@Jimmmmm, at what point did you start feeling angry at faust?

@faust, same question re: Jimmmmm.

I'm scumreading the hell out of this post: it serves no purpose and simply extends a discussion that isn't productive. It sounds like the perfect post for scum!EFHW to do if both faust and Jimmmmm are town (which I think they are).

And I'm also sheeping you.

But you're wrong. Imagine you are trying to figure out if two arguers are being genuine in their postings of high emotion. It helps a lot to know what set them off. faust got mad when Jimmmmm unfairly accused him of going down a rabbit hole. Ok. Jimmmmm said he wasn't really angry, he was "leaning into the argument." I think that's scummy.

Jimmmmm could do all of this recently towny stuff as scum with his eyes closed and one hand tied behind his back.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 17, 2021, 11:18:38 am
Sorry, got PPEd thereÖ.

MiXÖ. Whatís your sense on EFHW? I really donít want to be stubborn, but I donít think jimmm or faust are scum. And Iím just not sure about Joth.

In fact, Vote: faust. Scum or anti-Town, you don't get a free pass just because you want one.
@Jimmmmm, at what point did you start feeling angry at faust?

@faust, same question re: Jimmmmm.

I'm scumreading the hell out of this post: it serves no purpose and simply extends a discussion that isn't productive. It sounds like the perfect post for scum!EFHW to do if both faust and Jimmmmm are town (which I think they are).

And I'm also sheeping you.

Couldn't you had read that before? Was the question really necessary?

But you're wrong. Imagine you are trying to figure out if two arguers are being genuine in their postings of high emotion. It helps a lot to know what set them off. faust got mad when Jimmmmm unfairly accused him of going down a rabbit hole. Ok. Jimmmmm said he wasn't really angry, he was "leaning into the argument." I think that's scummy.

Jimmmmm could do all of this recently towny stuff as scum with his eyes closed and one hand tied behind his back.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 17, 2021, 11:19:27 am
Sorry, got PPEd thereÖ.

MiXÖ. Whatís your sense on EFHW? I really donít want to be stubborn, but I donít think jimmm or faust are scum. And Iím just not sure about Joth.

In fact, Vote: faust. Scum or anti-Town, you don't get a free pass just because you want one.
@Jimmmmm, at what point did you start feeling angry at faust?

@faust, same question re: Jimmmmm.

I'm scumreading the hell out of this post: it serves no purpose and simply extends a discussion that isn't productive. It sounds like the perfect post for scum!EFHW to do if both faust and Jimmmmm are town (which I think they are).

And I'm also sheeping you.

But you're wrong. Imagine you are trying to figure out if two arguers are being genuine in their postings of high emotion. It helps a lot to know what set them off. faust got mad when Jimmmmm unfairly accused him of going down a rabbit hole. Ok. Jimmmmm said he wasn't really angry, he was "leaning into the argument." I think that's scummy.

Jimmmmm could do all of this recently towny stuff as scum with his eyes closed and one hand tied behind his back.

Couldn't you had read that before? Was the question really necessary?

EBWOP
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 17, 2021, 12:44:27 pm

I feel like I should clarify some of this.

The joth vote was a tiny scum ping which was big enough to warrant a first vote. You could call it semi-RVS.

#158 was really less about scumhunting and more about trying to engage with the game and not knowing how to. The main thing I want out of a Day 1 is to keep up and be engaged in discussions. "[player] is [alignmenty] for [reasons]" is far more helpful to that end than simply "[player] is [alignment]". It's also worth noting that I was not talking about voting without reason, rather making statements with some degree of apparent certainty.

The vote on EFHW was a "reward" for WCD giving reasons for a read. I did not consider the state of wagons at the time.

PPE

I'm gonna back us up a million years and point this post out. I thought it was townie. I basically was trying to articulate a town read on Jim and he rejected my townread as a misreading of his posts. If you are scum, I think you take the free town points when you are under pressure.

At the time, I was going to share this as a reason to think that Jim was town. Then, e pointed out if Jim is the towniest, we should look on wagon for scum and went for Mathdude. That's why I ended up there. Then Jim did a million things, and some of them were scummy as hell TBH and recently he's been hella towny again and I'm starting to lose track.

But the fact remains that this was a townie post and it was produced not before any pressure was on him but at least before tons and tons of people were starting to say he was the best exile and so I think it has more weight to it than posts he was making specifically knowing that he was fighting for his life.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 17, 2021, 12:52:15 pm
Couldn't you had read that before? Was the question really necessary?

I didn't know either thing before I asked. I'm sorry there were more argument posts, but there weren't THAT many, and I know I gained some insight from it. What do you see as the problem?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 17, 2021, 12:59:07 pm
As for Math himself, that is a tough one to read.

Last game Math was town, and I didn't share this but I read almost everything Math said as scum. I also noticed in the speccy at the end, where MiX and Galz had solved most of the game, they continually thought Math was the last scum with EFHW/faust instead of Dylan up onto the innocent result on him. And I remember also that outside of Dwarves mafia and Oz mafia he has been exiled D1 a lot, correctly and incorrectly, or something like that.

But there was one post last game that really made me think Math was town and so I just ignored the other scummy stuff. I'm gonna quote the relevant part:

So this is mostly to say I'm starting to become aware of my biases in trying to read people.

So here it is not just what he said but the way he said it that is just so townie a new player couldn't make that stuff up. "I'm starting to become aware." He's right there in the thread... realizing that he OMGUS voted me for no good reason and starting to become aware of his biases. Well... scum isn't starting to become aware of anything... they already know most things. So based on that one sentence I had a townread on Math.

This game... there is not that one sentence. There's actually a similar sentence.

-snip
 I believe I have fallen victim to this many times. When I start finding someone scummy, I often find it very hard to look at them objectively again. I just find more things that I think are scummy. And it gets worse if I start digging in and posting reasons for my scum read on them.
-snip

But this time, Math is talking about it as a hypothetical. Last game he was "starting to become aware" of his biases in the present tense. This game he's talking about it as a hypothetical... something he's seen many times but its not happening now.

Okay... so I'm realizing now as I type this all out that I've become incredibly fixated on a single sentence from a previous game that I used as my be-all-end-all to read a player who to be honest I sometimes find confounding and even aggravating.

But... as a whole... I think the argument still stands that Math is scummy because there is a lack of any kind of town-slip type post like he had in Oz. 

Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 17, 2021, 01:00:42 pm
Couldn't you had read that before? Was the question really necessary?

I didn't know either thing before I asked. I'm sorry there were more argument posts, but there weren't THAT many, and I know I gained some insight from it. What do you see as the problem?

Lol, every night when I go to bed while being extremely busy IRL, I wake up to find 3-4 more pages of mafia I have to read to be caught up, and 80% of it is faust vs. Jim. There are THAT many IMO
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 17, 2021, 01:08:45 pm
faust, besides MiX, who is on your scummy list?
Why do you want to know?

Because I have you in my leaning town category, and Iíd like to be able to either move you up or down. I think MiX is town, so that increases your scum likelihood. But itís MiX, so itís hard to know. I think Jimmmm is town, but I think you do, too, now. Do we agree on anyone else?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 17, 2021, 01:29:33 pm
So EFHW. EFHW started out scummy and then there were some posts that made me question it. This one is important I think.

I might go back to Jimmmmm. I am feeling uncomfortable ever since joth got involved.

This is exactly the opposite of what I'm trying to accomplish.

Of course. Your arguments are not very strong though, because Jimmmmm is an experienced player and OMGUS and policy voting are newbie reactions. This makes me concerned that you are scum trying to misexile him.

I'm talking at cross-purposes with myself here, however. I actually do think Jimmmmm is scummy  -- because I think I see careful maneuvering that an experienced player who hasn't played for a bit might try. Pick a fight, be righteous about how town should play, buddy someone who voted you (me), and seem to move on with a level head.

vote: Jimmmmm

"I think I see careful maneuvering." To me, this about face on Jim of going from "Let's not restrict ourselves to faust and Jim" and then back to Jim again but for what look like very authentic reasons is a townie looking post. It was also one of the better arguments that Jim could be scum. So when I was reading along it was here that I was thinking, maybe Jim is actually doing this big scum show.

That being said, now I am thinking Jim is town again... so I am back to EFHW is tunneling and pushing an exile I don't feel good about. Last game I thought I had her as scum... and then she convinced me with a pretty nice case on pubby (who I thought was scum but he was town). So I know she can make a strong argument for a townie being scum as scum.

I also agree with MiX that her posts kind of egging on faust and Jim could be a scum thing. She has the town defense of really wanting to know, which she just now articulated, but as scum I think fanning those flames could be a legitimate tactic in order to distract. I also thought her most recent post saying that she didn't extend the discussion that much was kind of disingenous. Besides... the result has nothing to do really with the attempt.

So... bleh... I'm kind of all over the place with EFHW right now.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 17, 2021, 01:34:40 pm
Who else were the current wagons? Oh, math. HmmmÖ. I havenít carefully considered Math.

The case there was he was all meta and not moving the game forward?

Iím not sure that is worse than the other under the radars who are not moving the game forward. Is it worse to be trying to engage than just not around?

To me it is not that math is "all meta and not moving the game forward", it is the way he was posting. Saying that we should consider exiling one of the 5 or 6 lurkers in a big list, without giving any reasons, or even giving one out of the list.

It's a scum tactic to say "let's look at this group", and then not actually do it themselves. At best, it causes people to voice their opinions on lurkers (which isn't amazing), but it is just way too non-committal.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 17, 2021, 01:36:58 pm
Sorry, got PPEd thereÖ.

MiXÖ. Whatís your sense on EFHW? I really donít want to be stubborn, but I donít think jimmm or faust are scum. And Iím just not sure about Joth.

In fact, Vote: faust. Scum or anti-Town, you don't get a free pass just because you want one.
@Jimmmmm, at what point did you start feeling angry at faust?

@faust, same question re: Jimmmmm.

I'm scumreading the hell out of this post: it serves no purpose and simply extends a discussion that isn't productive. It sounds like the perfect post for scum!EFHW to do if both faust and Jimmmmm are town (which I think they are).

And I'm also sheeping you.

This is definitely the kind of thing EFHW is aware of and chooses to do as scum.

What are your thoughts on mathdude? (I may have missed them in the thread.)
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 17, 2021, 01:37:48 pm
Sorry, got PPEd thereÖ.

MiXÖ. Whatís your sense on EFHW? I really donít want to be stubborn, but I donít think jimmm or faust are scum. And Iím just not sure about Joth.

In fact, Vote: faust. Scum or anti-Town, you don't get a free pass just because you want one.
@Jimmmmm, at what point did you start feeling angry at faust?

@faust, same question re: Jimmmmm.

I'm scumreading the hell out of this post: it serves no purpose and simply extends a discussion that isn't productive. It sounds like the perfect post for scum!EFHW to do if both faust and Jimmmmm are town (which I think they are).

And I'm also sheeping you.

This is definitely the kind of thing EFHW is aware of and chooses to do as scum.

What are your thoughts on mathdude? (I may have missed them in the thread.)

None.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 17, 2021, 01:41:28 pm
We should look at LL/iguana/Swowl/gkrieg/e then. Yes, I excluded Didds, but only because I actually remember joth's post about her.

We have a little over 2 days (about 52 hours, I believe).  I'm not saying we shouldn't change directions - there is still enough time for that.  In fact, we should definitely look at these people.  But we need to do it soon, and get responses and opinions today, rather than waiting until the final few hours.

I believe there was an early mini-wagon on iguana, that fizzled as quick as it started.

Were there votes on e today too?  Or am I thinking of the previous game?

And someone policy voted for LL early, but that wasn't anything for discussion, I don't believe.

This is the hedgy post.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 17, 2021, 01:42:28 pm
Sorry, got PPEd thereÖ.

MiXÖ. Whatís your sense on EFHW? I really donít want to be stubborn, but I donít think jimmm or faust are scum. And Iím just not sure about Joth.

In fact, Vote: faust. Scum or anti-Town, you don't get a free pass just because you want one.
@Jimmmmm, at what point did you start feeling angry at faust?

@faust, same question re: Jimmmmm.

I'm scumreading the hell out of this post: it serves no purpose and simply extends a discussion that isn't productive. It sounds like the perfect post for scum!EFHW to do if both faust and Jimmmmm are town (which I think they are).

And I'm also sheeping you.

This is definitely the kind of thing EFHW is aware of and chooses to do as scum.

What are your thoughts on mathdude? (I may have missed them in the thread.)

None.

The fact that you have no thoughts about someone is something I just can't wrap my head around.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 17, 2021, 01:48:07 pm
So WCD I think has got to be town for now for my sanity's sake. MiX said that I remind Mix of himself or faust but I don't really see that. Actually the person here who reminds me of myself is WCD (except she's nicer; I'm a jerk). I noticed that last game... both of us were often reading the game the same way. So that has continued this game with us starting the EFHW wagon at first as a sort of RVS but then she was saying that EFHW was defensive right as I was reading EFHW's response to the the wagon and finding it scummy & defensive.

Also, there are a smattering of posts throughout from Didds that I agree with. Here's one:

Can someone tell me why mathdude is scummy?

And the big argument on jimmmm is that he's active?

I don't know...I think if we're taking a shot in the dark someone like Swowl who is just busy elsewhere (which is always super good scum cover, if need be) seems like less of a loss.

So... I don't actually agree on Math. But I have similar feelings about Jim, and am starting to feel the same way about Swowl because despite his continual assurances that he's going to show up, he still hasn't. And at some point that kind of activity goes from null to scummy when you haven't actually posted a VLA.

I realize that it's dangerous to assume that someone who has the same thought process as you is therefore town... but it worked out last game, so for now I am townreading WCD and just leaving that as very much not set in stone.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 17, 2021, 01:49:56 pm
yeah my towncore RN is iguana & Didds. It was faust too but then I second-guessed myself into oblivion, sorry faust. But I will happily sheep Didds and iguana today.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 17, 2021, 02:00:26 pm
Okay looks like gkrieg is here so I will read him next.

General impression: gkrieg's posts are like a wall I can't see through at all. So I am going to force myself to read him based on his reads.

So he's defending EFHW... scummy I guess?
But he's voting Mathdude... towny I guess?

And he's back right now and pushing Math hard.


This post is why I'm voting mathdude. Deciding to EOL, and actively pushing people toward it is a "townie" thing to do that scum tend to do more than town. Specifically so they can avoid commenting on other wagons, or so they can look like they are doing something without actually doing something. Specifically when they don't offer any direction on which of the ~6 people that could be voted for.

Especially saying, "we should definitely look at these people [...] soon, and get responses and opinions today, rather than waiting until the final few hours." instead of saying who out of those people is scummy.

Ok... this is almost a stupid reason to quote this post but what does EOL mean? I literally can't parse a word of this post because I don't know that acronym.

Ok and it looks like in his most recent post... he's actually scumreading EFHW? So that should be townie... except it doesn't make sense that he was defending EFHW from a wagon two days ago and now he's interrogating the people who are defending EFHW. So question #2 for gkrieg, what's up with that?

And yeah... gkrieg's reads seem townie but his posts are null. I don't think I have the capacity to read gkrieg until we see flips. 
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 17, 2021, 02:05:15 pm
I donít think youíre a jerk, iguana!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 17, 2021, 02:09:05 pm
yeah my towncore RN is iguana & Didds. It was faust too but then I second-guessed myself into oblivion, sorry faust. But I will happily sheep Didds and iguana today.

Sure. So I will read Joth now.

Joth is buddying me so that makes him scum.

Actually, I think Joth is town. And that's because... his scum record is truly abysmal. And I read his scum game... the one he told me was the best example of him as scum... and he was just bad scum in that game.

And he does not seem bad in this game. Therefore he's town. Good enough for D1.

That's my general impression.

Specifically (after reading) what's different between Joth and the scum game I read is that Joth in the scum game had a really hard time making cases and would literally say like "IDK... I gues we could exile Scolapasta???" in response to questions about who he scumread and in this game he does nothing but post cases and reasons for scumreading people.

Oh yeah... and Joth was one of the others who was starting to convince me that Jim could be scum.

The case on Jimmmmm is not just that he's being active. It's that he's being active in a certain way in response to pressure that is consistent with his past play and inconsistent with this past town play. That's like a very good day 1 case. I appreciate faust doing the work to cross-reference it.

On top of that, he has:

-advocated for a policy exile in a really noncommittal way
-OMGUS voted for faust during their exchange
-been soft-defended by MiX in exactly the way that scum defends a partner (trying to deflect the exile without actually defending the player as townie).

There's like a lot here, fam. This isn't just nonsense.

This was a decent case. Well, I don't know about the MiX-partner-theory part. (I'm a little leery of partner theories RN because they screwed me last time.) But the other parts were convincing.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 17, 2021, 02:09:35 pm
I donít think youíre a jerk, iguana!

You should read 2018 me!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 17, 2021, 02:28:01 pm
Okay looks like gkrieg is here so I will read him next.

General impression: gkrieg's posts are like a wall I can't see through at all. So I am going to force myself to read him based on his reads.

So he's defending EFHW... scummy I guess?
But he's voting Mathdude... towny I guess?

And he's back right now and pushing Math hard.


This post is why I'm voting mathdude. Deciding to EOL, and actively pushing people toward it is a "townie" thing to do that scum tend to do more than town. Specifically so they can avoid commenting on other wagons, or so they can look like they are doing something without actually doing something. Specifically when they don't offer any direction on which of the ~6 people that could be voted for.

Especially saying, "we should definitely look at these people [...] soon, and get responses and opinions today, rather than waiting until the final few hours." instead of saying who out of those people is scummy.

Ok... this is almost a stupid reason to quote this post but what does EOL mean? I literally can't parse a word of this post because I don't know that acronym.

Ok and it looks like in his most recent post... he's actually scumreading EFHW? So that should be townie... except it doesn't make sense that he was defending EFHW from a wagon two days ago and now he's interrogating the people who are defending EFHW. So question #2 for gkrieg, what's up with that?

And yeah... gkrieg's reads seem townie but his posts are null. I don't think I have the capacity to read gkrieg until we see flips.

EOL = EAL = Exile all Lurkers (used to be LAL), wow, that is a bad time for a typo.

Ya, I'm going back and forth on EFHW. I thought she was getting a lot of flak for being defensive in her posts, which is something you tend to do when you are being voted for and accused (and commonly gets me misexiled). But then I actually think her question to faust and jimmmmm is scummy. Definitely feeling math over EFHW, but I think they are both pretty good exiles, and I would likely hammer EFHW if it came to it.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 17, 2021, 02:34:32 pm
MiX is also here... I really don't want to read MiX.

So reading MiX sucks because I've never had to do it before. Last game I just knew he was town and I was like "haha he is town but he is a wrongo" when actually... well... enough about that.

Much has been made about MiX's super-early-townread of faust. But... isn't that what MiX is notorious for? I don't even play with him and I know that.

Math should be town here. His vote and push on me are very easy for scum!math to fake as he seems very comfortable doing it, but he seems genuine to me. Particularly this post:

math, were you seriously pushing MiX, or was that more RVS?
If LL hadn't joined the vote already, I would have already moved on. But since there were 2 votes, I thought I'd see if anyone else was interested in joining too.

So maybe RVS? But
I donít know if I believe in RVS anymore.
Ditto?

Which shows serious doubt over who to vote and how to proceed out of RVS.

Pulling this up because it seems like an inconsistency. I just read MiX saying that he has literally no thoughts on Math. But earlier he had thoughts on Math enough to make a pretty decent sized post. I realize this was from WAY EARLIER in the game. But... does MiX just forget his own opinion on Math? Maybe if it was a fabricated opinion to start with that would be more likely.

Another inconsitency related to the same "no opinion on mathdude" post:

It's not like I have evidence saying otherwise. But I don't really like how there's only been 2 wagons this entire day, and at least one of them seems to be entirely at random.

Earlier in the day... Mix wanted more wagons. When a wagon pops up on Math... he has no opinion? Why wouldn't someone who wants to have more wagons engage with a wagon when a new one shows up?

He also blankly scumreads e... who I think is town here and is also an easy misexile (and has been for years).

The mathdude wagon is extremely interesting. It's entirely composed of what faust would call lurkers.

Too interesting to give half-baked opinions on it.

I kind of hate this post. It's hating on e for not investing mountains of time into playing mafia and casting shade on all the math voters.


So there's 4 viable wagons: EFHW, Jimmmmm, math and MiX. Out of these, EFHW is the only one that can be scum. There, I said it. I'll just reread all of them anyway.

Wait.. so this is actually a serious inconsistency. He claims to have JUST REREAD all of EFHW/Jim/Math/Himself? but has no opinions on Math. What? MiX, I demand you give opinions on Math.

vote:  EFHW

Oh, this is a scumslip from joth.

I wonder if scum!joth's still this obvious...

What the hell?

Ok, and then the final post saying no opinion on Math that I've already heavily scrutinized.

So I came into this reread positive that I would land flatly null of MiX but I'm actually slightly scumreading him. I can't say it's a strong read though because he's all over the place. And some of it is based on a scum!math partner narrative which I'll admit is terrible to do D1. So... when you remove the confirmation bias effect... slight scum on MiX with a lot of confusion and also please answer my questions.









Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 17, 2021, 02:36:37 pm
Sorry about all that blank space at hte bottom of my post  :o I must have been doing some sloppy quoting
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: mathdude on September 17, 2021, 02:49:53 pm
Let's just look at the wagons:

iguanaiguana (1):
EFHW (2): WestCoastDidds, MiX
Jimmmmm (4): jotheonah, faust, mathdude, EFHW
faust (2): Jimmmmm
mathdude (3): 2.71828....., iguanaiguana, gkrieg13
MiX (1): LaLight

Not Voting (1): Swowl

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to exile. Day 1 ends September 18, 2021, 03:00:00 pm

So there's 4 viable wagons: EFHW, Jimmmmm, math and MiX. Out of these, EFHW is the only one that can be scum. There, I said it. I'll just reread all of them anyway.

The people under the radar have either been on VLA or are actually townie (or both, see: Didds) so we can let them slide for today. faust is town so let's not do that, besides it's never correct to exile them D1. And I kinda agree with e that joth should get a D1 pass, but it's mostly because I can't see scum!joth flipping today.

To those 4 "viable wagons", I'd probably add faust and/or joth, just based on opinions that have been shared in thread by multiple people. But you do address them too and consciously didn't add them, so fair enough, from your perspective.

Obviously, I'd rather not be voted out myself, as I know that isn't helpful. I feel like MiX is likely given, based on his posting, scumhunting, etc. But I realize that might be biased by his IC status last game, and even the fact that he was town-reading me here, (though I think he said his current read is null).

Of the remaining 4, I'm still learning Jimmmmm. I'll go reread them each quick (after replying to a couple other posts here) and see if that changes.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 17, 2021, 02:51:05 pm
Okay, who is left to take a look at?

Lalight, Swowl, Joust'emmmmmm, 2.7

2.7: There's not much there, but I think what's there is towny.

Which exchange? Everything I read from jimmmm screamed town

IDK why, but to me that little bit of flair of Jim "screamed" town is something town says, not scum. Maybe it's just something e says though.

And as I've said... I like the Math case.

Lalight: I see nothing strongly alignment indicative in their posts themselves, and they are focused on faust and MiX... two of the players I have less figured out. I am just null on Lalight.

Joust'emmmmmmm:

What can I say? They definitely jousted. So they lived up true to their name. If I had to pick a scum from one of them... I'd pick faust because I'm sick of faust beating me literally every time he's scum. But actually I am null-ish on faust and town-ish on Jimmmmmmm and really don't want to exile either one today. And I kind of don't want to reread all of their ISOs because they're huge and it's about to be my weekend.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 17, 2021, 02:53:57 pm
Blah, I missed swowl.

I think WCD was right about swowl. Swowl's our best shot in the dark exile, and would serve him right for not showing up when he said he would. But also it's a jerk move to exile someone just for being busy IRL when he's repeatedly like "Hey, I'll get to this later."

So maybe WCD is the jerk, not me.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mathdude on September 17, 2021, 02:59:32 pm
Who else were the current wagons? Oh, math. HmmmÖ. I havenít carefully considered Math.

The case there was he was all meta and not moving the game forward?

Iím not sure that is worse than the other under the radars who are not moving the game forward. Is it worse to be trying to engage than just not around?

I post what I can to try to stay engaged. Many of you confidently say if you think someone is town or scum, based on tells. I have no such reads. Maybe I'm still too new to know. But you could also ask my wife... I'm really bad at reading people IRL too.

I do try to poke people and ask questions that could get them in hot water if they're scum. But yes, I do find myself engaging more in theoretical and meta discussions, rather than direct scum reads and town reads. And like Didds says here, I definitely think this is still more helpful overall than just lurking and not saying much.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Swowl on September 17, 2021, 03:02:15 pm
Re reads (super summary) then just jumping in...

Jimmmm:
Town... unless he is just playing the skum game of his life. The initial wagon on him was weak, no issue there, early day 1 fine. However, the people that started it on said weak reasons are literally the easiest two players on the planet to sheep (mix and faust). After that we pick up Mathdude, EFHW, and Joth. Those 3 are literally my top 3 skum reads after my re read. So all that added up, beats out the one skum vibe I get from Jimmm, which is this....

Post 174 - Jimm says "No I don't feel nervous having votes without reasons. Presumably either reasons will come or they'll be moved before Day's end."

... but then posts from there up to #195 with faust all kind of scream the opposite (that being, yes I am nervous, stop voting me without giving a reason).
... but that is it. Outside of that everything else rings town. Or they are just super using ATE in the 1v1s they are having, but again I don't recall Jimmm being similar to let's say someone like Ash at all... so town. pretty sold on that. 



EFHW:
Skum - It is not so much that a ton of things they have done is skummy... outside of this:
#349 - "@Jimmmmm, at what point did you start feeling angry at faust?
@faust, same question re: Jimmmmm."

Mainly I think their tunneling of Jimmm to be skummy. They got on at a advantageous time and then keep pushing him. Problem there is that the only argument she is making is "he could play this way as skum". There is not really any more of a being made that doesn't fixate on the idea of "yes he is playing towny, but that is because he is skum". See posts 452 and 517... which is pretty much their entire listed case for going back to Jimmmm after hopping around to GK and MiX for a moment.


Mathdude:
Null/Skum
- Opens with RVS on MiX. Then in post #80 tries to rally troops to mix suggesting "he is a good wagon", which would suggest he has reasons. But then in #90 the reason is evidently just "because it was a wagon at the time". Which idk, is fine technically, but the whole thing about skum not caring about who is lynched thing.
- #172 provides imo a decent reason to why they like to just get wagons going on Day 1. Negates some of the skum vibes from the previous posts.
- #165 policy votes Jimmm at a time that creates a wagon of 3. Kind of some skum vibes on that one. Stuck bc Math is normally pretty meticulous and that feels lazy. But also, IDK if they would be lazy as skum. So just chalk it up as weird/skummy.
- #173 decent skum hunting. towny.
- #204 partner pairing reasons. skummy.
- Everything from that point on feels pretty much like good effort Math. With the potential exception of #440 which could be an opportunistic sheep of faust back to Jimmm as it contradicts the reason he unvoted Jimmm in the first place (i.e wall posts and such).
So yeah all in all... middle leaning skummy.


WCD
Town.
- RVS vote on EFHW. Doesn't move. Provides reasons that I obviously agree with. Not gonna waste space, everything they have done thus far rings town!didds.


K I got like 2 more I need to get out, but I need to do some work now, so they will be later today.

Vote: EFHW

ppe several
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Swowl on September 17, 2021, 03:05:10 pm
Blah, I missed swowl.

I think WCD was right about swowl. Swowl's our best shot in the dark exile, and would serve him right for not showing up when he said he would. But also it's a jerk move to exile someone just for being busy IRL when he's repeatedly like "Hey, I'll get to this later."

So maybe WCD is the jerk, not me.

no one is a jerk. It's on me. I apologized, but I will again. Me not being around was not helpful.
Honestly, I should of subbed as it probably would of been a better decision for town to have someone here posting...  but I just knew I would be back home and realllllyyyy wanted to be in a game. Sorry.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mathdude on September 17, 2021, 03:05:21 pm
-snip-
Long post about me
...

Even after all this, I still can't figure out if you find me scummy or not. I think you went back and forth 3 or 4 times, got stuck on last game a bit too long, and then couldn't decide. But after reading your posts on other people too, you seem to be in the same boat with your reads on a lot of people. Seems hedgy overall to me.

PPE Swowl's post
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mathdude on September 17, 2021, 03:11:24 pm
Who else were the current wagons? Oh, math. HmmmÖ. I havenít carefully considered Math.

The case there was he was all meta and not moving the game forward?

Iím not sure that is worse than the other under the radars who are not moving the game forward. Is it worse to be trying to engage than just not around?

To me it is not that math is "all meta and not moving the game forward", it is the way he was posting. Saying that we should consider exiling one of the 5 or 6 lurkers in a big list, without giving any reasons, or even giving one out of the list.

It's a scum tactic to say "let's look at this group", and then not actually do it themselves. At best, it causes people to voice their opinions on lurkers (which isn't amazing), but it is just way too non-committal.

Don't take me out of context. I didn't say let's go exile a lurker who we haven't talked much about. I said we still had over 48 hours to look at some people we hadn't yet. We had time to ask them questions, solicit their responses and their opinions since most of them hadn't given much opinion yet at that point, IIRC.

I was saying lurkers don't get a free pass. But I definitely wasn't saying exile the lurkers. I was saying let's engage them. We had a few decent wagons already. But we were missing many opinions.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 17, 2021, 03:15:01 pm
-snip-
Long post about me
...

Even after all this, I still can't figure out if you find me scummy or not. I think you went back and forth 3 or 4 times, got stuck on last game a bit too long, and then couldn't decide. But after reading your posts on other people too, you seem to be in the same boat with your reads on a lot of people. Seems hedgy overall to me.

PPE Swowl's post

Let me clarify. You are scummy for voting Jim when you did the first time, and you are scummy for sheeping faust and revoting Jim after unvoting. You are especially scummy if Jim is town, which is something I obviously can't completely figure out yet (It's D1, how am I supposed to be sure about anyone?), but think is true.

I am voting you. So you can be sure I think you are scummy.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mathdude on September 17, 2021, 03:17:09 pm
We should look at LL/iguana/Swowl/gkrieg/e then. Yes, I excluded Didds, but only because I actually remember joth's post about her.

We have a little over 2 days (about 52 hours, I believe).  I'm not saying we shouldn't change directions - there is still enough time for that.  In fact, we should definitely look at these people.  But we need to do it soon, and get responses and opinions today, rather than waiting until the final few hours.

I believe there was an early mini-wagon on iguana, that fizzled as quick as it started.

Were there votes on e today too?  Or am I thinking of the previous game?

And someone policy voted for LL early, but that wasn't anything for discussion, I don't believe.

This is the hedgy post.

Maybe it looks that way to you. Maybe that's how you hedge. But to me, it was mobile posting, responding to MiX, and not having time to go lik up 4 or 6 people's contributions to the game. I responded with what I could at the time.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 17, 2021, 03:20:45 pm
-snip-
Long post about me
...

Even after all this, I still can't figure out if you find me scummy or not. I think you went back and forth 3 or 4 times, got stuck on last game a bit too long, and then couldn't decide. But after reading your posts on other people too, you seem to be in the same boat with your reads on a lot of people. Seems hedgy overall to me.

PPE Swowl's post

Let me clarify. You are scummy for voting Jim when you did the first time, and you are scummy for sheeping faust and revoting Jim after unvoting. You are especially scummy if Jim is town, which is something I obviously can't completely figure out yet (It's D1, how am I supposed to be sure about anyone?), but think is true.

I am voting you. So you can be sure I think you are scummy.

I can think of one fool-proof way to work out Jim's alignment.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 17, 2021, 03:21:32 pm
mathdude is striking me as pretty towny, but in a way that is unfortunately pretty easy to fake.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mathdude on September 17, 2021, 03:25:01 pm
Blah, I missed swowl.

I think WCD was right about swowl. Swowl's our best shot in the dark exile, and would serve him right for not showing up when he said he would. But also it's a jerk move to exile someone just for being busy IRL when he's repeatedly like "Hey, I'll get to this later."

So maybe WCD is the jerk, not me.

Up to this point, your read on almost everyone seemed to hone on how they looked at me. You are really tunneling down on me, aren't you? Are you scum trying to buddy (or I guess anti-buddy) me, in case you get caught so it looks like I'm a partner? Or are you just a mistaken townie gone down too far? Open up and start looking at people outside of their read on me. Because if you are town, this is how you drag us down to a quick loss. Scum don't even need to do anything.

It's like the faust/Jimmmmm thing... if both town, scum would have happily let us all camp there the full D1.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mathdude on September 17, 2021, 03:29:19 pm
Blah, I missed swowl.

I think WCD was right about swowl. Swowl's our best shot in the dark exile, and would serve him right for not showing up when he said he would. But also it's a jerk move to exile someone just for being busy IRL when he's repeatedly like "Hey, I'll get to this later."

So maybe WCD is the jerk, not me.

Up to this point, your read on almost everyone seemed to hone on how they looked at me. You are really tunneling down on me, aren't you? Are you scum trying to buddy (or I guess anti-buddy) me, in case you get caught so it looks like I'm a partner? Or are you just a mistaken townie gone down too far? Open up and start looking at people outside of their read on me. Because if you are town, this is how you drag us down to a quick loss. Scum don't even need to do anything.

It's like the faust/Jimmmmm thing... if both town, scum would have happily let us all camp there the full D1.

I almost forgot ti actually comment on your Swowl post... at this point, less than 24 hours to deadline, there is no "best shot in the dark exile". We have viaible wagons. We pick the one we think is most likely scum, then get to look back at people D2 based on flip and where they stood in the argument. Exile a lurker gives us nothing.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mathdude on September 17, 2021, 03:35:04 pm
I can think of one fool-proof way to work out Jim's alignment.

Connect him to a lie detector and ask him straight up?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 17, 2021, 03:36:41 pm
MiX is also here... I really don't want to read MiX.

So reading MiX sucks because I've never had to do it before. Last game I just knew he was town and I was like "haha he is town but he is a wrongo" when actually... well... enough about that.

Much has been made about MiX's super-early-townread of faust. But... isn't that what MiX is notorious for? I don't even play with him and I know that.

Math should be town here. His vote and push on me are very easy for scum!math to fake as he seems very comfortable doing it, but he seems genuine to me. Particularly this post:

math, were you seriously pushing MiX, or was that more RVS?
If LL hadn't joined the vote already, I would have already moved on. But since there were 2 votes, I thought I'd see if anyone else was interested in joining too.

So maybe RVS? But
I donít know if I believe in RVS anymore.
Ditto?

Which shows serious doubt over who to vote and how to proceed out of RVS.

Pulling this up because it seems like an inconsistency. I just read MiX saying that he has literally no thoughts on Math. But earlier he had thoughts on Math enough to make a pretty decent sized post. I realize this was from WAY EARLIER in the game. But... does MiX just forget his own opinion on Math? Maybe if it was a fabricated opinion to start with that would be more likely.

Yes I did forget about this post. But I do remember townreading math earlier. It's just that I don't have that read anymore.


Another inconsitency related to the same "no opinion on mathdude" post:

It's not like I have evidence saying otherwise. But I don't really like how there's only been 2 wagons this entire day, and at least one of them seems to be entirely at random.

Earlier in the day... Mix wanted more wagons. When a wagon pops up on Math... he has no opinion? Why wouldn't someone who wants to have more wagons engage with a wagon when a new one shows up?

At least from my perspective, the math wagon came out of nowhere from the shadows. As you can see, it's comprised of 3 players that haven't posted much, so in my mind I didn't register it as a wagon when the votes were being placed. When I saw it, I just thought "hmm, people voting math, that's to be expected" and moved on. Later on I looked at it more closely and realized it was still the same, at that point I thought "if 3 people are scumreading math...maybe math's scum?", but I didn't believe that fully, or really had any concrete basis to believe it, which is why I made the "math wagon's interesting" post.


He also blankly scumreads e... who I think is town here and is also an easy misexile (and has been for years).

The mathdude wagon is extremely interesting. It's entirely composed of what faust would call lurkers.

Too interesting to give half-baked opinions on it.

I kind of hate this post. It's hating on e for not investing mountains of time into playing mafia and casting shade on all the math voters.

How is this post related to e?



So there's 4 viable wagons: EFHW, Jimmmmm, math and MiX. Out of these, EFHW is the only one that can be scum. There, I said it. I'll just reread all of them anyway.

Wait.. so this is actually a serious inconsistency. He claims to have JUST REREAD all of EFHW/Jim/Math/Himself? but has no opinions on Math. What? MiX, I demand you give opinions on Math.

No, that's me saying I will reread them. I haven't done that yet, because I'm a lazy bastard and I've been having fun with other stuff today.


vote:  EFHW

Oh, this is a scumslip from joth.

I wonder if scum!joth's still this obvious...

What the hell?

I once caught joth posting only a vote when he was scum, scumread the hell out of it as it did not make any sense in the world joth was portraying to be and it reeked of opportunism. I was right then, and so I made a mental note (or better yet, strengthened the note) saying "joth posting nothing but a vote is a scumslip". And here I am, using it, except I don't think it's quite as strong, and my rational brain's telling me it's townie.


Ok, and then the final post saying no opinion on Math that I've already heavily scrutinized.

So I came into this reread positive that I would land flatly null of MiX but I'm actually slightly scumreading him. I can't say it's a strong read though because he's all over the place. And some of it is based on a scum!math partner narrative which I'll admit is terrible to do D1. So... when you remove the confirmation bias effect... slight scum on MiX with a lot of confusion and also please answer my questions.

Did that answer your questions?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 17, 2021, 03:36:55 pm
I can think of one fool-proof way to work out Jim's alignment.

Connect him to a lie detector and ask him straight up?

Oh, so naive... :P
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 17, 2021, 03:38:54 pm
Who else were the current wagons? Oh, math. HmmmÖ. I havenít carefully considered Math.

The case there was he was all meta and not moving the game forward?

Iím not sure that is worse than the other under the radars who are not moving the game forward. Is it worse to be trying to engage than just not around?

To me it is not that math is "all meta and not moving the game forward", it is the way he was posting. Saying that we should consider exiling one of the 5 or 6 lurkers in a big list, without giving any reasons, or even giving one out of the list.

It's a scum tactic to say "let's look at this group", and then not actually do it themselves. At best, it causes people to voice their opinions on lurkers (which isn't amazing), but it is just way too non-committal.

Wait, didn't I do this? I'm really sorry if you went over what you think of me bringing up that list of players, but can you please go over how me and math approached this topic?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 17, 2021, 03:41:34 pm
Actually, I think Joth is town. And that's because... his scum record is truly abysmal. And I read his scum game... the one he told me was the best example of him as scum... and he was just bad scum in that game.

And he does not seem bad in this game. Therefore he's town. Good enough for D1.

That's my general impression.

Read this game (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20694.0).
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 17, 2021, 03:47:30 pm
Blah, I missed swowl.

I think WCD was right about swowl. Swowl's our best shot in the dark exile, and would serve him right for not showing up when he said he would. But also it's a jerk move to exile someone just for being busy IRL when he's repeatedly like "Hey, I'll get to this later."

So maybe WCD is the jerk, not me.

no one is a jerk. It's on me. I apologized, but I will again. Me not being around was not helpful.
Honestly, I should of subbed as it probably would of been a better decision for town to have someone here posting...  but I just knew I would be back home and realllllyyyy wanted to be in a game. Sorry.

Nah you don't need to sub, just don't go on vacation again during this game :P
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: mathdude on September 17, 2021, 03:51:07 pm
Mathdude:
-snip-
- #165 policy votes Jimmm at a time that creates a wagon of 3. Kind of some skum vibes on that one. Stuck bc Math is normally pretty meticulous and that feels lazy. But also, IDK if they would be lazy as skum. So just chalk it up as weird/skummy.

Second time this has come up. The first got lost in all the posts and I forgot to respond to it. Here it was...
White paused for a moment to look out the window and noticed that somehow their course had drifted straight into an asteroid field! They jumped on the weapons and started blasting the asteroids out of the sky, while Cyan jumped in the pilot's seat and charted a new course. At the back of the ship, Lime Green wondered where everyone was, so they sat down and watched the security cameras for a bit.

Vote Count 1.3

iguanaiguana (1): 2.71828.....
EFHW (4): WestCoastDidds, iguanaiguana, jotheonah, Jimmmmm
Jimmmmm (3): faust, MiX, mathdude
faust (1): LaLight

Not Voting (3): Swowl, EFHW, gkrieg13

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to exile. Day 1 ends September 18, 2021, 03:00:00 pm

Third vote is scum

Vote: math

Scum is concerned with how their vote looks. Town wants discussions, especially first half of D1, and will use questions, accusations, wagons, etc. to get them. I don't get what the problem with "3rd on the wagon" is. Are you both honestly saying it's better to not have a "wagon" get above 2 votes until the few hours before deadline? Not a chance. I pushed up the early iguana wagon (don't remember if I was vote 2, 3, or even if we got to 4... I don't care. It was early, and the wagon wasn't jumping to 7 that early), then that wagon vanished. I believe votes sat at 1 or 2 per person, so I pushed Jimmmmm up to 3 votes to generate discussion. It worked. Call me scummy if you want, but when it takes 7-ish to exile, I'll push votes up to 3 or 4 in the first few days of D1 every single game.

And yes, I unvoted for a bit too make sure it wasn't a quick-exile, but the one argument raised me to go back shortly after. I stand by my votes and unvotes this game.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: mathdude on September 17, 2021, 03:57:05 pm
Well, catching up took longer than expected. Iguana spamming the thread this afternoon didn't help... that was a lot more to read (and a few more things to respond to) than I expected.

So my reread of a few people, mentioned here...
Of the remaining 4, I'm still learning Jimmmmm. I'll go reread them each quick (after replying to a couple other posts here) and see if that changes.
... wil have to wait a few hours.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 17, 2021, 04:12:27 pm
Actually, I think Joth is town. And that's because... his scum record is truly abysmal. And I read his scum game... the one he told me was the best example of him as scum... and he was just bad scum in that game.

And he does not seem bad in this game. Therefore he's town. Good enough for D1.

That's my general impression.

Read this game (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20694.0).

Well I'm going to read it! I could use the confidence boost. I have a terrible memory so I could tell you not one thing about it.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 17, 2021, 04:16:39 pm
Blah, I missed swowl.

I think WCD was right about swowl. Swowl's our best shot in the dark exile, and would serve him right for not showing up when he said he would. But also it's a jerk move to exile someone just for being busy IRL when he's repeatedly like "Hey, I'll get to this later."

So maybe WCD is the jerk, not me.

Up to this point, your read on almost everyone seemed to hone on how they looked at me. You are really tunneling down on me, aren't you? Are you scum trying to buddy (or I guess anti-buddy) me, in case you get caught so it looks like I'm a partner? Or are you just a mistaken townie gone down too far? Open up and start looking at people outside of their read on me. Because if you are town, this is how you drag us down to a quick loss. Scum don't even need to do anything.

It's like the faust/Jimmmmm thing... if both town, scum would have happily let us all camp there the full D1.

This is demonstrably wrong. My LL, Joust'emmmmm, Joth, & EFHW rereads don't mention you. My WCD read IIRC only mentions you tangentially.

Rereading e, you can't not mention mathdude because e's main contribution to the game so far is starting the mathdude wagon.

Gkrieg has also mainly defined his game by scumreading EFHW and Mathdude. For him in particular, looking at how his reads of other players match up with mine was necessary because I find his playstyle really opaque.

MiX...yes I focused on on how MiX was reading Mathdude more than his other posts. But that was because those posts jumped out at me as requiring explanation and the rest of his posts are so all over the place that i didn't know what to do with them. I also think that MiX's mathdude posts up to my reread of him could be scummy regardless of Math's alignment. They are just... weird. An inconsistency is an inconsistency.

I realize I am focusing on you. But that is because I am voting you. And the extent to which I am doing so is not as much as you are making it out to be.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 17, 2021, 04:17:31 pm
Blah, I missed swowl.

I think WCD was right about swowl. Swowl's our best shot in the dark exile, and would serve him right for not showing up when he said he would. But also it's a jerk move to exile someone just for being busy IRL when he's repeatedly like "Hey, I'll get to this later."

So maybe WCD is the jerk, not me.

Up to this point, your read on almost everyone seemed to hone on how they looked at me. You are really tunneling down on me, aren't you? Are you scum trying to buddy (or I guess anti-buddy) me, in case you get caught so it looks like I'm a partner? Or are you just a mistaken townie gone down too far? Open up and start looking at people outside of their read on me. Because if you are town, this is how you drag us down to a quick loss. Scum don't even need to do anything.

It's like the faust/Jimmmmm thing... if both town, scum would have happily let us all camp there the full D1.

I almost forgot ti actually comment on your Swowl post... at this point, less than 24 hours to deadline, there is no "best shot in the dark exile". We have viaible wagons. We pick the one we think is most likely scum, then get to look back at people D2 based on flip and where they stood in the argument. Exile a lurker gives us nothing.

Weren't you the one saying exile a lurker just a few days ago??
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 17, 2021, 04:20:56 pm
Actually, I think Joth is town. And that's because... his scum record is truly abysmal. And I read his scum game... the one he told me was the best example of him as scum... and he was just bad scum in that game.

And he does not seem bad in this game. Therefore he's town. Good enough for D1.

That's my general impression.

Read this game (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20694.0).

Well I'm going to read it! I could use the confidence boost. I have a terrible memory so I could tell you not one thing about it.

Yeah everyone should read this game, where I do all the things that I am currently scumreading Jim for but somehow still survive to the end. But if you're using it for comps, you should note I was traitor there which is a very specific kind of scum to be.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 17, 2021, 04:26:42 pm
Quote from: MiX
Quote from: Iguana Iguana
The mathdude wagon is extremely interesting. It's entirely composed of what faust would call lurkers.

Too interesting to give half-baked opinions on it.

I kind of hate this post. It's hating on e for not investing mountains of time into playing mafia and casting shade on all the math voters.

How is this post related to e?

You are calling e, gkrieg and iguana lurkers. I singled out e because of what I said about him being a common D1 misexile and generally misunderstood player. gkrieg doesn't have that problem. If it helps, I was also super annoyed that you called iguana a lurker when he was too busy vaccuuming up massive piles of confetti late into the night after an EDM concert to respond.

Thank you for answering my other questions. The Joth scumslip thing is... entertaining. Calling that a scumslip though is patently ridiculous.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 17, 2021, 04:27:57 pm
Ironically, this game from February that I had all but forgotten existed is M134 and we're currently playing ... M135. So idk what that says about my memory, or this community's interest in non-crazy mafia these days.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 17, 2021, 04:28:52 pm
Actually, I think Joth is town. And that's because... his scum record is truly abysmal. And I read his scum game... the one he told me was the best example of him as scum... and he was just bad scum in that game.

And he does not seem bad in this game. Therefore he's town. Good enough for D1.

That's my general impression.

Read this game (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20694.0).

Well I'm going to read it! I could use the confidence boost. I have a terrible memory so I could tell you not one thing about it.

Yeah everyone should read this game, where I do all the things that I am currently scumreading Jim for but somehow still survive to the end. But if you're using it for comps, you should note I was traitor there which is a very specific kind of scum to be.

I actually think its scummy in a vacuum that there was a recent relevant scum game that you won and you didn't produce it when asked. But as mod you proved yourself to be so forgetful that it's like... w/e NAI
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 17, 2021, 04:29:44 pm
I mean no offense but pubby was supposed to die
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 17, 2021, 04:34:49 pm
Quote from: MiX
Quote from: Iguana Iguana
The mathdude wagon is extremely interesting. It's entirely composed of what faust would call lurkers.

Too interesting to give half-baked opinions on it.

I kind of hate this post. It's hating on e for not investing mountains of time into playing mafia and casting shade on all the math voters.

How is this post related to e?

You are calling e, gkrieg and iguana lurkers. I singled out e because of what I said about him being a common D1 misexile and generally misunderstood player. gkrieg doesn't have that problem. If it helps, I was also super annoyed that you called iguana a lurker when he was too busy vaccuuming up massive piles of confetti late into the night after an EDM concert to respond.

Thank you for answering my other questions. The Joth scumslip thing is... entertaining. Calling that a scumslip though is patently ridiculous.

I specifically did not call them lurkers. faust did.

Ironically, this game from February that I had all but forgotten existed is M134 and we're currently playing ... M135. So idk what that says about my memory, or this community's interest in non-crazy mafia these days.

It speaks of our interest in modding crazy games.

I mean no offense but pubby was supposed to die

Hider isn't inherently Weak. This is the first and only time I will dispute this.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 17, 2021, 04:40:22 pm
Vote Count 1.II.5

EFHW (4): WestCoastDidds, MiX, Jotheonah, Swowl
Jimmmmm (3): jotheonah, mathdude, EFHW
faust (1): Jimmmmm
mathdude (3): 2.71828....., iguanaiguana, gkrieg13
MiX (2): LaLight, faust

Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 17, 2021, 04:43:15 pm
Last thing I wanted to do is take a look at the current game state. With less than a day to deadline... Jim is the only one stubbornly not moving his vote to any kind of a wagon. Still, I don't like the look of the people voting Jim and do not want to vote there. I don't think I like voting MiX either given that the two votes on him are coming from people I don't really trust.

I could move to EFHW but I think I still want to see if anyone else is interested in Math.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 17, 2021, 05:07:05 pm
Vote Count 1.II.5

EFHW (4): WestCoastDidds, MiX, Jotheonah, Swowl
Jimmmmm (3): jotheonah, mathdude, EFHW
faust (1): Jimmmmm
mathdude (3): 2.71828....., iguanaiguana, gkrieg13
MiX (2): LaLight, faust

You have me on two wagons

I'll be gone for a while. Will try  to check in before deadline.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 17, 2021, 05:07:34 pm
oh  deadline is in the afternoon.  Yeah I can def. be around for it.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 17, 2021, 05:43:20 pm
Vote Count 1.II.5

EFHW (4): WestCoastDidds, MiX, Jotheonah, Swowl
Jimmmmm (2): mathdude, EFHW
faust (1): Jimmmmm
mathdude (3): 2.71828....., iguanaiguana, gkrieg13
MiX (2): LaLight, faust

EBWOP I literally always do that
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 17, 2021, 05:58:53 pm
faust, besides MiX, who is on your scummy list?
Why do you want to know?

Because I have you in my leaning town category, and Iíd like to be able to either move you up or down. I think MiX is town, so that increases your scum likelihood. But itís MiX, so itís hard to know. I think Jimmmm is town, but I think you do, too, now. Do we agree on anyone else?
Ah sorry, I don't want to share more about my reads right now, they are also still quite volatile. I do not like the EFHW wagon.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 17, 2021, 06:05:19 pm
Ok, thanks
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 17, 2021, 06:09:59 pm
Vote: joth
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 17, 2021, 06:10:37 pm
faust, besides MiX, who is on your scummy list?
Why do you want to know?

Because I have you in my leaning town category, and Iíd like to be able to either move you up or down. I think MiX is town, so that increases your scum likelihood. But itís MiX, so itís hard to know. I think Jimmmm is town, but I think you do, too, now. Do we agree on anyone else?
Ah sorry, I don't want to share more about my reads right now, they are also still quite volatile. I do not like the EFHW wagon.

Vote: joth

This follow logically.

I agree with you.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 17, 2021, 08:15:08 pm
I can think of one fool-proof way to work out Jim's alignment.

Me: "This oughta be good... Oh."
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 17, 2021, 08:19:57 pm
It's like the faust/Jimmmmm thing... if both town, scum would have happily let us all camp there the full D1.

In other words, if we're both Town, scum aren't the ones who led us away from camping there? Potentially useful if true.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 17, 2021, 08:22:11 pm
It's like the faust/Jimmmmm thing... if both town, scum would have happily let us all camp there the full D1.

In other words, if we're both Town, scum aren't the ones who led us away from camping there? Potentially useful if true.

As someone that tried to do this: yes.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 17, 2021, 09:59:00 pm
No one else finds it scummy that Jimmmmm was exaggerating the argument? Or do you not believe him when now he says he wasn't angry?

Town Jimmmmm never posts this much. The deliberateness of his posts since the argument points to careful crafting.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 17, 2021, 10:18:10 pm
No one else finds it scummy that Jimmmmm was exaggerating the argument? Or do you not believe him when now he says he wasn't angry?

By "lean into", I didn't mean exaggerate. I meant that at times when I thought, "Maybe I should just let it go because it's getting unproductive", I also thought, "No this is helping me engage with the game so it's helpful", and also that I was willing to use slightly stronger/blunter language that I would normally filter out, which presumably was what led you to ask why/if I was angry.

Quote
Town Jimmmmm never posts this much. The deliberateness of his posts since the argument points to careful crafting.

I never post this much, particularly Day 1. This game is, and I think will remain, an outlier. I don't think I've ever felt this strongly about something on Day 1. This is the first game in which I've encountered faust's strategy, and while in future games I won't support it, I'll also avoid repeating all the arguments.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: mathdude on September 17, 2021, 11:47:01 pm
Well, catching up took longer than expected. Iguana spamming the thread this afternoon didn't help... that was a lot more to read (and a few more things to respond to) than I expected.

So my reread of a few people, mentioned here...
Of the remaining 4, I'm still learning Jimmmmm. I'll go reread them each quick (after replying to a couple other posts here) and see if that changes.
... wil have to wait a few hours.

I'm disappointed in my mobile posting... a bunch of auto-corrects I'm noticing now that I didn't see when posting.  Mostly not affecting anything (like the word "wil" instead of "will", above), but there were 1 or 2 I noticed where I missed a word, or it completely changed a word.  I think the meanings are still there.

Anyway, sitting down with the laptop now, and CFL on the TV... instead of going to bed.  Let's see how far I can get.  Rereading those I was referring to above... time to look at EFHW, Jimmmmm, MiX, and also joth and faust.  Looks like more than 4!  Whose math is this?  (I think I meant 4 on top of Jimmmmm).
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mathdude on September 18, 2021, 12:04:40 am
I just re-read EFHW's posts.  As I was reading through, I kept thinking "that's scummy"... "so's that"... "I get why people called that out"... "I was called scummy for something like that".

But as I kept going, I began to realize that I agree with just about everything she has posted through the whole D1, and since I'm being called scummy for a few things, it's not surprising that people are calling her scummy too.

Early mild scum-read on Jimmmmm, an awareness and attempt to avoid getting locked into a 1 vs. 1 with Jimmmmm/faust, some concerns briefly raised with a few others, namely MiX and gkrieg, then cycling back and landing on Jimmmmm.

All in, everything EFHW has said makes sense to me.  I give her almost full town-cred at this point.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mathdude on September 18, 2021, 12:32:49 am
Reading MiX next.  Stop posting so much!  Why can't you post a lot less like EFHW?  It was much easier looking through her posts.  Just kidding, it's helpful.

So far, not much that looks different than the usual MiX I'm used to seeing.  A few things (mainly strategy) I disagree with... though there are some things I agree with too.  A few reads on people I disagree with him about (such as his town-read on Jimmmmm through the faust/Jimmmmm ordeal), but that's par for the course.

Maybe there's a bit less random, "100% sure" posts than I've seen from him before.  Maybe he's being a little more careful this game?  There's actually a good amount of trying to keep discussions moving productively, not letting people lurk, calling out for opinions on people we hadn't heard much about, etc.

Then this:
Vote: MiX

the time has come.

oh no. i tried to do something productive. better return to wackyness.

Haha faust lock!town for being so stubborn!!!!!!1!!!!one. Hey faust, why oh why are you scumreading me? I'm so invested in this question and believe you will provide a satisfactory answer!

He realizes he may be being just a little too helpful and less like himself, then starts backing off again.

This strikes me as interesting:
The mathdude wagon is extremely interesting. It's entirely composed of what faust would call lurkers.

Too interesting to give half-baked opinions on it.

He points out my wagon at the time, calls the people lurkers, but deflects that call and says "I'm not calling them lurkers, it was faust who called them that".  It is true though that votes on me this game have been by people who haven't posted as much this game.

Then more towards the present, he's really hedging on the Jimmmmm vote.  Back to his usual self, absolutely confident that Jimmmmm is town.  (Who can be that sure at this point except scum?  Oh, right... MiX can too, regardless of alignment).  But when he says we might as well exile Jimmmmm if we have nothing else, to sort out people, it's like he seems to know a town result, and that that will make for another easy misexile for his team D2.

Maybe I'm just finally getting back to my usual "I always find MiX scummy", or maybe I'm onto something.  At this point in my re-reads, I'd say it's MiX or Jimmmmm, but almost guaranteed not both.  If MiX is town, he's misreading Jimmmmm.  If MiX is scum, he went too far in his confidence that Jimmmmm is town.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Swowl on September 18, 2021, 12:34:33 am
Vote: joth

So this prompted me to do a re-read on Joth, because I don't get what you and MiX get at glance.
TLDR; I think Joth is playing too skummy to actually be skum. What am I missing here?

Joth:
#44 Hi Everybody - Not skummy. Not anything. What IS weird is the amount of skumminess that MiX was assigning to people for different reasons. Joth for using punctuation, Iguana for having a pre-determined vote? That is all nonsense. This is a Joth read though, will get to that later.

#56/#58 - all about mix and faust wagon and how he will over-react. These are weird posts. Especially because he assigns town points to MiX and Faust. So if you think you know what they are doing... and you think they are towny... why say that? That is moderately skummy.

#104 - "trying something new, which should be towny for reasons I am not going to explain". Totally lost. No clue why you would say that. Or why it should be assumed towny.

#108 - votes Math because Math wants wagons. I disagree that Math's way of looking at things is skummy, and I disagree with #110 "skum just wants to exile skum" to be applied vs town caring so early in the game... but ultimately, not skummy.

#129 - Asks faust to say more about having wagons being the best way to catch skum. That question is skummy. It deflects the conversation, he doesn't give any insight himself, and if it works (which it does) it gets a big ole' convo going about shit that just floods the thread. skummy.

#144 - TR on MiX and Didds. Null on MiX. Finds a nice way in a middle spot onto EFHW... who I think is skummy, so I guess that is not skummy. Or I am wrong about EFHW, in which case it could be skummy.

#163 - self aware post of possibly altering read on WCD. starting to talk myself into towny joth at this point.

#300 - Votes Jimmm. Switching from the only other wagon of EFHW. Reason being that the back and forth between faust and Jimmm was "enlightening" and that Jimmm came out skummy. Bias skum points simply because I disagree with 100% of the entire post. It was not enlightening, it was a waste of space about semantics (no offense, just my opinion). And Jimmm, if there is anyway to say someone is skummy when talking about a bunch of nothing, def did not come off skummy to me.

#301 - ok... follows it up with a decent reason on why he thought faust was towny and jimm was skummy. Still disagree, but def lessens the skumminess previously felt. 

#309 - "OMGUS is (almost) never a tactical decision. It's a way of expressing frustration. Granted, town can also get frustrated with town (or scum) but that usually happens when someone is being annoying or intransigent and I just don't see faust doing that. He's making good, cogent points in response to your criticism of caseless voting. So your frustration, expressed through an OMGUS vote, reads to me as scummy frustration at not being able to make progress dissolving a day one wagon on you." - this entire paragraph contradicts itself. This is skummy af imo. This is just trying to get a point across while not actually making a point in order to further push the person you want to push.

#312 - calls out faust on potentially trying to take advantage of TVT wagon situation. Which... he is just all over the map so far. IDK, up to now been thinking possibly protecting faust, but this would kind of throw that out the window.

#347 - says will join Math with no reasons given. this is right after they were asking people not to diverge off of current wagons, of which MAth was not one of them.

#406 - Calls skum team of MiX/Jimmm. Opens the door for a mix vote.

#412 - Lists reasons why Jimmm is skummy:
"-advocated for a policy exile in a really noncommittal way
-OMGUS voted for faust during their exchange
-been soft-defended by MiX in exactly the way that scum defends a partner (trying to deflect the exile without actually defending the player as townie).
1. Ok yes fair. But like a really smallllll thing imo. Not enough to deserve this tunnel.
2. already said, think that happens more as town than skum, so disagree.
3. againnnnnnn with the partnery day 1 thing which I just never see any reason for town to say out loud and see tons of reasons for skum to soft ball in there.

#449 - ok this is the cumulation post of explanations of why he thinks Jimmm is skummy that actually makes sense. I don't agree with all of it. But also it is towny.

#491 - gives credit to jimmm for mounting a defense that is good. However, does the efoo thing and chalks it up to "but jimmm could do it as skum". Then also adds in a partner pair possibility of Faust and Jimmm. THIS IS WHY THIS IS SUPER SKUMMY - There has been talk at this point of Jimmm/EFHW and there has been a bit of talk about MiX/Faust. That just opened the door to go for either MiX or Faust, as he already opened it for MiX multiple times earlier. It also goes way back on the previous read of Town!Faust vs Skum!Jimmm.

#511 - random move back to EFHW after hard tunneling Jimmm.

#551 - Now math is towny all of sudden?


TLDRX2; IDK. Almost everything there makes me want to say Joth is skummy af. The thing is... I also just don't think that Joth like... does that as skum. Especially after opening the game they way they did. I am trying to talk myself into skum, but I have to really try so I think I am a no go on Joth today.

PPE
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 18, 2021, 12:37:13 am
Vote: MiX

the time has come.

oh no. i tried to do something productive. better return to wackyness.

Haha faust lock!town for being so stubborn!!!!!!1!!!!one. Hey faust, why oh why are you scumreading me? I'm so invested in this question and believe you will provide a satisfactory answer!

He realizes he may be being just a little too helpful and less like himself, then starts backing off again.

I read this as MiX sarcastically saying that faust was returning to wackyness. His next few posts after this one seem more productive than wacky.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 18, 2021, 12:47:57 am
faust, what changed in the 16 hours between these posts?

Yes, I'm sure exiling a scum will do a lot for our ability to see who the remaining scum is.

You don't think I'm scum?
Well, I believe you are more likely town than scum.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 18, 2021, 12:49:52 am
Also, here you're still arguing that I'm scum.

Basically I got a scum result on ash Night 1, and spent Day 2 arguing with him, waiting until most of the way through the Day before claiming the result.
Sorry, but I'm not convinced that a game in which you had a scum result on another player is the best comparison to this situation. Obviously you are going to be more forceful under those circumstances.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Swowl on September 18, 2021, 12:54:23 am
I just re-read EFHW's posts.  As I was reading through, I kept thinking "that's scummy"... "so's that"... "I get why people called that out"... "I was called scummy for something like that".

But as I kept going, I began to realize that I agree with just about everything she has posted through the whole D1, and since I'm being called scummy for a few things, it's not surprising that people are calling her scummy too.

Early mild scum-read on Jimmmmm, an awareness and attempt to avoid getting locked into a 1 vs. 1 with Jimmmmm/faust, some concerns briefly raised with a few others, namely MiX and gkrieg, then cycling back and landing on Jimmmmm.

All in, everything EFHW has said makes sense to me.  I give her almost full town-cred at this point.

To bolded - I get what you are saying, but like... that is skummy right? Early shade for weak reasons. then says no 1v1 lock in. so they can't go back yet. then the faust/jimm thing ends and they back on Jimmm. How is that not skummy?

ppe jim
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mathdude on September 18, 2021, 01:01:23 am
Well, I was going to read joth next.  But it seems Swowl has just posted a full recap of joth's posts with commentary.  So I guess I'll just steal little bits from there instead of going back through everything myself.

The game opening by joth being "trying something new" does not strike me as townie.  As Swowl says, there are a lot of things that read as scummy, but I agree that this just isn't a joth thing to do, leaving so many scummy bits out there for us.  I think that makes it more likely that this is a careless town!joth than a scum!joth.

Until we get to this:
I would join this wagon.
After e votes for me an iguana joins, joth hypothetically wants to continue building a wagon on me.  But he wants to avoid that (apparently) dreaded 3rd vote on someone, so he tries to lure someone else into it first.

Then tunneling Jimmmm.  Then jumping wagons to EFHW.  Then I have no idea.  Then calling out partner pairs.  ... I'm not sure where to go with this?  I expected less "issues" from reading joth.  Sounds like a Traitor or a weird 3rd party to me, but pretty sure we don't have those here.

I guess I'll end by saying I find joth either definite scum, or definite town... but I have no idea which.  It's not one of those "in-the-middle, slightly leaning one way" deals.  Except that it is, because I don't know which way I'm leaning.  Not a viable wagon D1 at this point anyway here, so I'll check back again D2 if/when relevant.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 18, 2021, 01:09:55 am
TLDRX2; IDK. Almost everything there makes me want to say Joth is skummy af. The thing is... I also just don't think that Joth like... does that as skum. Especially after opening the game they way they did. I am trying to talk myself into skum, but I have to really try so I think I am a no go on Joth today.

Without actually having re-read joth (or even fully read this post), I'm feeling similarly. Something about his #490 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20873.msg877111#msg877111); it's either really Towny or really scummy, and I can't put my finger on which. The last two sentences suggest he's either genuinely trying to figure things out but some doubts are creeping in, or things didn't continue down the path he was expecting, so he needs to give himself the option to change tact without fully giving up on the Jim v faust thing.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mathdude on September 18, 2021, 01:16:24 am
Time for faust.

He wanted to join me and make a real early wagon on MiX, but either I moved on too fast or he showed up too slow.  I don't know... NAI?

I don't like this at all:
MiX is scum but it's not the exile we want right now.
If this were stated today, and we had very little discussion about MiX all D1, then it makes sense.  But it was early D1.  On its own, chalk it up to being faust.  Now combined with his desire to vote MiX early without actually doing it, looks like buddying to me.

[I'm fading here... it's too late for me to be up!]
Skimming the rest of faust's posts, looks on par with what I expect.  Like my "connection" to MiX, I disagree with a bunch of things he says, but that's normal.  Not much standing out.  Throwing votes onto MiX, and most recently joth seem on par.

I think I'm leaning town-ish for faust for now.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 18, 2021, 01:26:30 am
EFHW, do you think that getting angry, emotional etc is a scum- or Town-trait?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mathdude on September 18, 2021, 01:27:50 am
Final comments on checking Jimmmmm again before my eyes close for good...

Still seeing the same as I was seeing before.  If this is a new town!Jimmmmm and we need to note this going forward that he really gets into it instead of just lurking, I think that's an overall win.  But to me, right now, it still sits as differents/scummy.

I do see some of his most recent posts (last 24 hours maybe) coming across as more genuine and townie, compared to the first 5 days.  But that's a read I can't break myself from at this point.  Maybe I just doubled down with a bias, but that's what it is then.

... back tomorrow.  And I'm sure there will be a flurry of night posts for me to read in the morning, as there always are.  Leaving my vote on Jimmmmm for now.  Probably willing to switch it over to MiX if that's where we want to go.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 18, 2021, 01:33:04 am
Still seeing the same as I was seeing before.  If this is a new town!Jimmmmm and we need to note this going forward that he really gets into it instead of just lurking, I think that's an overall win.  But to me, right now, it still sits as differents/scummy.

As mentioned previously, I doubt I'll have another Day 1 like this one. I do intend to only play when I can be reasonably active, but it's also about momentum for me; if I fall behind I generally stay behind for some time. I would say that of all the factors that determine my activity level, alignment may be on the list, but it's towards the bottom.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 18, 2021, 03:13:13 am
faust, what changed in the 16 hours between these posts?

Yes, I'm sure exiling a scum will do a lot for our ability to see who the remaining scum is.

You don't think I'm scum?
Well, I believe you are more likely town than scum.
My read on you.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 18, 2021, 03:14:37 am
What changed your read on me?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 18, 2021, 03:18:41 am
What changed your read on me?
I'm not willing to give scum a primer on how to talk me out of scumreading them, sorry.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 18, 2021, 08:29:12 am
Having another look at EFHW. This jumped out at me:

Idk if this needs to be said to a bunch of vets, but policy exiles are scummy because they give scum cover to get someone exiled without committing to that person being scum. We get one exile per game day. Itís not pro town to use it for anything other than pursuing our collective wincon.

vote: MiX. I did apologize.

Sorry: to clarify, I'm scumreading that post. I'm not trying to policy exile you anymore.

Honestly, if we want to exile someone for thread health, Jimmmmm's the way to go.

ok, unvote

EFHW votes MiX in agreement with joth's assertion that policy exiles are scummy (or rather, policy votes or advocating for a policy exile). Then when MiX states that he now scumreads EFHW for that post and is no longer trying to policy exile her, EFHW immediately unvotes. Why would the fact that he's now saying it's also scummy change the scumminess of the original call for a policy exile?

Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 18, 2021, 09:03:20 am
Whoa, this could be something. Swowl mentioning joth asking about wagons as a way to flood the thread reminded of something I saw recently.

This game:

Letís

Vote: mathdude

Dude seems a little too eager to have wagons.
And that's scummy why?

Town wants to exile scum. Scum just wants to exile.
But what does that have to do with wanting wagons? Having wagons is the best way of catching scum.

Say more about that.


Czech Mafia, in which joth was scum:

...
But I'd love to hear the "wagons are protown" argument.
...


Why is joth asking the same question again?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 18, 2021, 09:21:26 am
Hang on. Earlier he demonstrated that he understands the wagons thing perfectly and that it's a good, Towny plan, only to later bemoan the f.ds meta of using wagons to put pressure on people:

I suspect MiX and faust are voting on me in the hopes that Iíll overreact to a small wagon which is one of my primary scum tells. Itís a good plan, town points all around.

I hate that FDS meta makes it towny to do a thing I consider to be the most scummy (fishing around for a ďviableĒ wagon rather than properly scum hunting).

I actually believe itís possible to productively scumhunt without forcing a bunch of claims and giving scum cover to pull off a town exile, which is what wagons for wagonsí sake usually accomplishes. But I guess we can agree to disagree.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 18, 2021, 09:27:47 am
I'm more curious about why joth has ignored my support of exiling you.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 18, 2021, 09:32:21 am
EFHW, do you think that getting angry, emotional etc is a scum- or Town-trait?
In you,  I'd say town. Scum!you wouldn't get carried away by emotion, and I don't think you did in this game.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 18, 2021, 09:34:23 am
ISOing joth is annoying because of all the codenames messages in between. Clearly this is scummy!

joth does have a bunch of opinions about wagons that are weird. In fact, this is most of his posts early in D1.

joth then votes EFHW to sheep, then scumreads Jimmmmm and votes there, then scumreads faust after townreading them before. Then votes EFHW. Hmm.

I think joth's town. But this looks really weird. It probably means joth is scum, but I don't know, I like wall posts from joth and he's been making enough...

This isn't an easy person to read today I'd say.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 18, 2021, 09:37:15 am
EFHW, do you think that getting angry, emotional etc is a scum- or Town-trait?
In you,  I'd say town. Scum!you wouldn't get carried away by emotion, and I don't think you did in this game.

I don't know why, but I found this funny. Like, using the fact that I said I wasn't angry to argue that I'm scum, even though you thought I was angry. Do you think as scum I would allow myself to be perceived as angry?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 18, 2021, 09:52:57 am
EFHW is town.

What is there to say about this...her Jimmmmm case is very strong and townie. It's logical, consistent, and yet has that tiny bit of not knowing Jimmmmm's alignment. It reveals EFHW's been reading the game closely for scumhunting.

Unvote
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 18, 2021, 09:54:44 am
...
Also I think it's obvious joth voted you because you were a wagon.

lol. I voted EFHW because of a combo of trusting my town reads and PoE.

This struck me as odd at the time; how can you PoE someone early Day 1? Then I realised it must have been PoE out of the wagons and yeah joth's attitude to wagons is super weird.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 18, 2021, 09:55:34 am
...
Also I think it's obvious joth voted you because you were a wagon.

lol. I voted EFHW because of a combo of trusting my town reads and PoE.

This struck me as odd at the time; how can you PoE someone early Day 1? Then I realised it must have been PoE out of the wagons and yeah joth's attitude to wagons is super weird.

I've been assuming it's a joke.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 18, 2021, 09:57:19 am
What can I say guys? Iím a mystery wrapped in an enigma wrapped in a tortilla.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 18, 2021, 09:59:53 am
What can I say guys? Iím a mystery wrapped in an enigma wrapped in a tortilla.

Vote: joth

A smart man once said, the only sure way to know someone's alignment...
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 18, 2021, 10:08:17 am
Seriously I can address some of this if itís helpful but since no one but faust seems to actually think Iím scummy enough to vote for, might not be a great use of energy rn. Also Iím not gonna promise explanations will be 100% satisfying.

I have a really disorganized brain and a really poor working memory. I think that sets me apart from most forum mafia players. Itís definitely not going to do me any favors when youíre declaring a contradiction with a post from 2018. But contradictions within this game I feel deserve to be addressed, so letís talk about wagons and nonsense some more.

I guess the bottom line is that I find F.DSís day 1 meta exhausting. We always run around in circles for 20+ pages arguing about nothing because we have no info and end up on a weak consensus exile thatís significantly worse than random. And some of the tactics we use to do this inane dance have to do with wagons and pressure voting.

Which, to paraphrase Churchill, is the worst way of doing things except for all the others.

So I really like to challenge the conventional wisdom around wagons and pressure votes and things partly because it gives me something to talk about out the gate and partly because deep down I hope to find a better way of doing things that sticks going forward.

But often I end up coming back to wagons and pressure myself because itís a learned behavior and it sort of works sometimes?

This game I really wanted to just pick a read and stay on them for the sake of limiting scumís ability to manipulate and maybe I should have stuck to my guns there. The switch to EFHW was a bit of a whim and looking back not really helpful in any way.

Vote: Jimmmmm
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 18, 2021, 10:11:41 am
What was your purpose in asking faust to say more about wagons?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 18, 2021, 10:19:41 am
What was your purpose in asking faust to say more about wagons?

I think I wanted to draw out the difference between productive wagon analysis and wagonning for waggoningís sake. I do think thereís an important distinction.

Like the other thing we were arguing about today was unexplained votes.

Wagons do two thingsó one they create pressure that creates reactions that can be alignment-indicative, and they do that regardless of whether the votes that make them up are genuine votes based on genuine scumreads.

But the other thing they do is allow for wagon analysis, which is where we start construct theories about whoís scum based on the web of whoís voted for whom. The problem is, votes without reasons or votes that were just done for pressure or to create wagons sort of make this kind of analysis less useful.

So I think I wanted to make a case a bit more nuanced then ďwagons are good no wagons are badĒ. Certain wagons are useful, but that doesnít mean that all wagons are good and therefore you can do whatever you want as long as it makes a wagon. But I asked faust the question because I wanted to get their in a Socratic way.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 18, 2021, 10:29:18 am
I accept that. Obviously you've been mulling over the wagon stuff, and that seems to be the cause of the weirdness. I'm not so much into past-game meta analysis, but I had a quick look at a couple of your recent scum games and couldn't find any more similar example.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 18, 2021, 10:31:47 am
This game I really wanted to just pick a read and stay on them for the sake of limiting scumís ability to manipulate and maybe I should have stuck to my guns there. The switch to EFHW was a bit of a whim and looking back not really helpful in any way.

Vote: Jimmmmm
I'm confused about this. Weren't you voting for EFHW before you ever started suspecting Jimmmmm?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 18, 2021, 10:33:24 am
Why are we changing directions when we have two perfectly cromulent wagons right here?

I was thinking Jimmmmm and EFHW, but I see the EFHW wagon has sputtered out.

Anyway, let's get rid of Jimmmmm, he's being very scummy.

So this is you trying to stick with your read and advocating against running around in circles?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 18, 2021, 10:35:48 am
I would join this wagon.

This was about mathdude. Were you considering having mathdude be your read for Today, or would joining that wagon be non-committal?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 18, 2021, 10:37:12 am
I would join this wagon.

This was about mathdude. Were you considering having mathdude be your read for Today, or would joining that wagon be non-committal?

Wait no this was after you were already on me. How did this relate to your plan?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 18, 2021, 10:38:46 am
Why are we changing directions when we have two perfectly cromulent wagons right here?

This seems to directly contradict your being open to joining the mathdude wagon.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 18, 2021, 10:40:03 am
(You said the two wagons were me and EFHW, although math had the most votes at the time.)
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 18, 2021, 10:46:33 am
Having another look at EFHW. This jumped out at me:

Idk if this needs to be said to a bunch of vets, but policy exiles are scummy because they give scum cover to get someone exiled without committing to that person being scum. We get one exile per game day. Itís not pro town to use it for anything other than pursuing our collective wincon.

vote: MiX. I did apologize.

Sorry: to clarify, I'm scumreading that post. I'm not trying to policy exile you anymore.

Honestly, if we want to exile someone for thread health, Jimmmmm's the way to go.

ok, unvote

EFHW votes MiX in agreement with joth's assertion that policy exiles are scummy (or rather, policy votes or advocating for a policy exile). Then when MiX states that he now scumreads EFHW for that post and is no longer trying to policy exile her, EFHW immediately unvotes. Why would the fact that he's now saying it's also scummy change the scumminess of the original call for a policy exile?
He didn't vote me when he said he wanted to policy exile me.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 18, 2021, 10:52:23 am
I think I have some understanding of joth's game so far now, and it's making a bit more sense. I think the "stick to a read" plan explains the vibe I (and I gather Swowl) was getting, and it sounds likely to be a premeditated (ie non-alignment-dependent) plan. I think I'm leaning slight Town, but also that he warrants further investigation on a future Day.

I would like to know why MiX said joth voting for EFHW was a scumslip - was that ever explained? Was it just because it contradicted his plan?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 18, 2021, 10:54:32 am
I think I have some understanding of joth's game so far now, and it's making a bit more sense. I think the "stick to a read" plan explains the vibe I (and I gather Swowl) was getting, and it sounds likely to be a premeditated (ie non-alignment-dependent) plan. I think I'm leaning slight Town, but also that he warrants further investigation on a future Day.

I would like to know why MiX said joth voting for EFHW was a scumslip - was that ever explained? Was it just because it contradicted his plan?
He explains in #555.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 18, 2021, 10:56:28 am
Ah, thanks.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 18, 2021, 10:57:19 am
He didn't vote me when he said he wanted to policy exile me.

So, you would only find a policy exile suggestion scummy if it's accompanied by a vote? Does the fact that it's not accompanied by vote indicate it's not serious?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 18, 2021, 11:05:02 am
I actually do think Jimmmmm is scummy  -- because I think I see careful maneuvering that an experienced player who hasn't played for a bit might try. Pick a fight, be righteous about how town should play, buddy someone who voted you (me), and seem to move on with a level head.

I'm trying to understand this. faust is Town in this scenario, yes? Is the idea that get myself into some deep water, and trust my ability to reason my way out with the Towny posts I could make with my eyes closed and one hand tied behind my back?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 18, 2021, 11:09:00 am
Hi friends- I am not caught up at all BUT I just realized that deadline is this afternoon. I am heading to the lake and Iím not going to have service. Itís a bad happenstance!

So Iím looking for adviceÖ if not EFHW, who?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 18, 2021, 11:09:33 am
I might go back to Jimmmmm. I am feeling uncomfortable ever since joth got involved.

Should there be some kind of a "but" between these sentences? IE, this is explained by your #451 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20873.msg877066#msg877066)?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 18, 2021, 11:11:18 am
He didn't vote me when he said he wanted to policy exile me.

So, you would only find a policy exile suggestion scummy if it's accompanied by a vote? Does the fact that it's not accompanied by vote indicate it's not serious?
He made it clear he was resisting the urge. Very different from advocating.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 18, 2021, 11:11:53 am
Can anyone do a vote count?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 18, 2021, 11:15:00 am
Hi friends- I am not caught up at all BUT I just realized that deadline is this afternoon. I am heading to the lake and Iím not going to have service. Itís a bad happenstance!

So Iím looking for adviceÖ if not EFHW, who?

Oh shoot! I've been super mixed up by timezones. I thought the deadline had been pushed back for some reason, as first it was saying September 18, 2021, at 3:00 PM server time, and then it changed to saying September 19 at 5:00 AM. But I went back and checked just now and the latter has changed to saying "Today at 5:00 AM" and I realised that it's showing the time in my timezone. So deadline is in fact less than 4 hours away, and it's already past 1am for me. I thought I'd have tomorrow to settle on a vote. :(
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 18, 2021, 11:17:36 am
Hi friends- I am not caught up at all BUT I just realized that deadline is this afternoon. I am heading to the lake and Iím not going to have service. Itís a bad happenstance!

So Iím looking for adviceÖ if not EFHW, who?

joth? That's my guess.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 18, 2021, 11:21:57 am
Can anyone do a vote count?

Vote Count 1.MiX

EFHW (2): WestCoastDidds, Swowl
Jimmmmm (3): mathdude, EFHW, jotheonah
faust (1): Jimmmmm
mathdude (3): 2.71828....., iguanaiguana, gkrieg13
MiX (1): LaLight
joth (2): faust, MiX

Not Voting (0):

EoD is in 3:39 hours.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 18, 2021, 11:23:01 am
Can anyone do a vote count?

Vote Count 1.MiX

EFHW (2): WestCoastDidds, Swowl
Jimmmmm (3): mathdude, EFHW, jotheonah
faust (1): Jimmmmm
mathdude (3): 2.71828....., iguanaiguana, gkrieg13
MiX (1): LaLight
joth (2): faust, MiX

Not Voting (0):

EoD is in 3:39 hours.

I hereby veto the faust wagon on the grounds of "it's never correct to exile faust D1. No, this is not why town lost last game".

All the other wagons are viable though. This is fun.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 18, 2021, 11:24:10 am
Hi friends- I am not caught up at all BUT I just realized that deadline is this afternoon. I am heading to the lake and Iím not going to have service. Itís a bad happenstance!

So Iím looking for adviceÖ if not EFHW, who?
I'm pretty sure everyone's adivce is going to be "the person I'm voting for".
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 18, 2021, 11:24:18 am
If we end up defaulting to a lurker exile I would suggest e. He's posted a bit without really contributing, whereas Swowl has made a couple of solid-looking posts despite having a lower post count.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 18, 2021, 11:25:00 am
I better look at mathdude.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 18, 2021, 11:33:43 am
Thank you for the vote count, MiX.

Iím straight up sheeping my town reads. Iím sorry I donít have more time. I thought I was couch lounging today, not going to the lake. I might be able to check in later, but Iím just not sure.

Vote: Joth
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 18, 2021, 11:41:08 am
Initial thought on mathdude. His re-reads don't seem super genuine to me. Could be that he was tired, so he had to struggle through them, and could be that I already knew he started on me and never moved.

Checked the votes on him, and there is no case, beyond "eager for wagons" and "third on the wagon". I'm not joining a late-Day wagon full of reasonless votes.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 18, 2021, 11:42:22 am
I'm not loving any of the wagons.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 18, 2021, 11:47:21 am
LaLight would be another contender for the lurker exile. Has basically no content aside from that he'd love to see MiX or faust exiled but not me. I kind of feel like scum would make more of an effort to contribute something though.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 18, 2021, 11:48:02 am
Thank you for the vote count, MiX.

Iím straight up sheeping my town reads. Iím sorry I donít have more time. I thought I was couch lounging today, not going to the lake. I might be able to check in later, but Iím just not sure.

Vote: Joth

Can I suggest Jim?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 18, 2021, 11:56:33 am
Okay I just said I'm not joining the mathdude wagon but I have to put my vote somewhere more useful than where it is, and I prefer mathdude to the other options. Sorry folks, but I'm going to have to turn it in. Might be around for another 10 minutes or so if there are any last-minute questions or anything.

Vote: mathdude

Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 18, 2021, 01:17:27 pm
I'm here. I would exile elsewhere to avoid nexile, but right now where I'm at looks best.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mathdude on September 18, 2021, 01:29:15 pm
Okay I just said I'm not joining the mathdude wagon but I have to put my vote somewhere more useful than where it is, and I prefer mathdude to the other options. Sorry folks, but I'm going to have to turn it in. Might be around for another 10 minutes or so if there are any last-minute questions or anything.

Vote: mathdude

I realize I'm after those 10 minutes, and I'm guessing you voted me solely for self-preservation since I had the most votes. But you really should have looked at one of the people others have actually expressed a willingness to vote for. Someone whose some will actually give us reads on other people once we see a flip.

I honestly don't get the votes on me. There's nothing to defend against.

e voted me early, hasn't moved, hasn't participated much.

Iguana is the only vote I respect. He's looked at others, and decided to stick with me. It's wrong, but I respect it. And until his post just before this, it was like a tunnel, joth-like, not planning to go anywhere else (though I can no longer say that, since he's now said he's willing to move to get an exile).

gkrieg had a naked vote, I believe as well. And he hasn't said much else... regarding me or others. Just let the vote stick.

If we're going to exile someone, Jimmmmm seems the most helpful, and IMO, most likely to be scum.
EFHW should also be good tp get future reads on people, but I think she's town so I won't vote there.
Joth would also be a good vote, or maybe MiX.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 18, 2021, 01:36:18 pm
Almost no activity 2 hours before deadline.

What a time to exile people.

EFHW (2): WestCoastDidds, Swowl
Jimmmmm (3): mathdude, EFHW, jotheonah
mathdude (4): 2.71828....., iguanaiguana, gkrieg13, Jimmmmm
MiX (1): LaLight
joth (2): faust, MiX
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 18, 2021, 01:44:19 pm
Almost no activity 2 hours before deadline.

What a time to exile people.

EFHW (2): WestCoastDidds, Swowl
Jimmmmm (3): mathdude, EFHW, jotheonah
mathdude (4): 2.71828....., iguanaiguana, gkrieg13, Jimmmmm
MiX (1): LaLight
joth (2): faust, MiX

Didds is voting Joth
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 18, 2021, 01:51:01 pm
EFHW (1): Swowl
Jimmmmm (3): mathdude, EFHW, jotheonah
mathdude (4): 2.71828....., iguanaiguana, gkrieg13, Jimmmmm
MiX (1): LaLight
joth (3): faust, MiX, WestCoastDidds
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 18, 2021, 01:54:18 pm
Swowl and LaLight really need to be here, but with LaLight in particular I'm doubtful that we'll see them.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 18, 2021, 02:02:03 pm
MiX, I never read that Joth game. What about it made him look similar to here?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 18, 2021, 02:03:45 pm
MiX, I never read that Joth game. What about it made him look similar to here?

Which game?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 18, 2021, 02:04:21 pm
I don't know! You linked one and I never had time to look at it!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 18, 2021, 02:05:02 pm
So how much time do we have?

It has been a very busy last two days, sorry for the inactivity. Still like my math vote, don't like jimmmm wagon, would exile joth if necessary
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 18, 2021, 02:07:13 pm
So how much time do we have?

It has been a very busy last two days, sorry for the inactivity. Still like my math vote, don't like jimmmm wagon, would exile joth if necessary

55 minutes.

I don't know! You linked one and I never had time to look at it!

In both games joth is scum.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 18, 2021, 02:08:08 pm
I'm trying to eat breakfast and I was looking for the sparknotes version
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 18, 2021, 02:14:26 pm
Just popping in. Likely wonít be around for the deadline. Happy with my vote
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 18, 2021, 02:15:11 pm
I'm trying to eat breakfast and I was looking for the sparknotes version

I linked the game because joth was trying really hard to find a game where he was scum but was failing to do so. So I did. It has nothing to do with me comparing him to that game or anything.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 18, 2021, 02:15:49 pm
I donít like the Jimmmmm wagon, people on it are scummy. Could change my vote to joth if needed, Iíll try to come back right before deadline.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 18, 2021, 02:18:11 pm
I'm here. I'll move if necessary for an exile.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 18, 2021, 02:18:52 pm
I'm trying to eat breakfast and I was looking for the sparknotes version

I linked the game because joth was trying really hard to find a game where he was scum but was failing to do so. So I did. It has nothing to do with me comparing him to that game or anything.

And here I was thinking you had actual reasons for voting Joth
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Swowl on September 18, 2021, 02:24:03 pm
Iím at work and attempting to multi task here.
Obv EFHW isnít happening so Iíll go Joth

Iíll be able to check back like 15 mins out

Vote: Joth
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 18, 2021, 02:27:11 pm
Jimmmmm (3): mathdude, EFHW, jotheonah
mathdude (4): 2.71828....., iguanaiguana, gkrieg13, Jimmmmm
MiX (1): LaLight
joth (4): faust, MiX, WestCoastDidds, Swowl
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 18, 2021, 02:44:56 pm
Fine, vote: joth
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 18, 2021, 02:49:01 pm
We need 2 more votes to exile joth.

Who's even here?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Swowl on September 18, 2021, 02:54:05 pm
Mobile. Here ish but also already on Joth
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 18, 2021, 02:54:38 pm
The 3 of us can switch to math
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 18, 2021, 02:54:54 pm
The 3 of us can switch to math

Meh.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 18, 2021, 02:54:58 pm
vote: math
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 18, 2021, 02:55:16 pm
5 min
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 18, 2021, 02:57:15 pm
Seriously?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 18, 2021, 02:57:30 pm
Seriously?

Yes.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 18, 2021, 02:57:44 pm
This is literally town!math being the D1 exile.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on September 18, 2021, 02:58:26 pm
 Do you and Swowl  both prefer no exile?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Dylan32 on September 18, 2021, 02:59:59 pm
Thread Locked
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Signups)
Post by: Dylan32 on September 18, 2021, 03:06:06 pm
Vote Count 1.Final

Jimmmmm (2): mathdude, jotheonah
mathdude (5): 2.71828....., iguanaiguana, gkrieg13, Jimmmmm, EFHW
MiX (1): LaLight
jotheonah (4): faust, MiX, WestCoastDidds, Swowl,

Not Voting (0):

With 12 alive, it took 7 to exile.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Dylan32 on September 18, 2021, 03:12:03 pm
A buzzer rang out through the ship's halls. Everyone gathered in the cafeteria around Cyan and the emergency meeting button they had pressed. Many accusations were made, but no conclusive evidence had been found, so the crew decided not to throw anyone out the airlock.

Nobody was exiled. N1 begins now and will end September 20, 2021, 03:00:00 pm. Night actions are due at least 12 hours before then.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dylan32 on September 20, 2021, 03:06:44 pm
After some more time working on tasks, a buzzer rang out. This time, Yellow ran into the cafeteria. "I found a body! Lime Green's body was in security!"

LaLight has been killed. They were a Crew-Aligned Vanilla Townie.

Day 2 begins now. Thread unlocked.

Vote Count 2.0

Not Voting (11): MiX, Swowl, faust, mathdude, gkrieg13, Jimmmmm, jotheonah, iguanaiguana, EFHW, WestCoastDidds, 2.71828.....

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to exile. Day 2 will end September 27, 2021, 03:00:00 pm.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: MiX on September 20, 2021, 03:14:50 pm
Okay, yes, LL was clearly town if anyone had read D1.

Vote: math for now.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 20, 2021, 03:19:35 pm
Okay, yes, LL was clearly town if anyone had read D1.

Vote: math for now.

But not for yesterday?

I mean, yeah. vote: math
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 20, 2021, 03:20:16 pm
Oh! Poor LaLi!

Also, hi hi hi hi hi hi hi!!!!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: MiX on September 20, 2021, 03:21:12 pm
Okay, yes, LL was clearly town if anyone had read D1.

Vote: math for now.

But not for yesterday?

I mean, yeah. vote: math

Yeah. Even I make mistakes :P

It's not like me voting math would've changed anything, right?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 20, 2021, 04:03:29 pm
sorry I didn't come back for deadline. RL stuff.

I guess no exile is OK.

why math?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 20, 2021, 04:04:14 pm
this isn't JUST day 1 again, we at least have one flip. Should probably try to divine something from it.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 20, 2021, 04:12:16 pm
I just re-read all of LaLight's 27 posts.

Basically he was pushing pretty hard for MiX and faust.

So let's go from that pool.

I know, I know, WIFOM, but we never actually sheep the dead's reads so scum won't have counted on us doing it.

Also either of those flips are going to be pretty informational.

vote: MiX
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Night 1)
Post by: Swowl on September 20, 2021, 04:13:56 pm
Okay, yes, LL was clearly town if anyone had read D1.

Vote: math for now.

But not for yesterday?

I mean, yeah. vote: math

Yeah. Even I make mistakes :P

It's not like me voting math would've changed anything, right?

as it turns out no it wouldn't of. I PPEd moving to Math by like 8 seconds on the thread lock :/


Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Swowl on September 20, 2021, 04:14:50 pm
Vote: Joth
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 20, 2021, 05:11:01 pm
Vote: Joth

Whyís that?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mathdude on September 20, 2021, 07:51:25 pm
why math?

Because he wants to start acting scummy now on D2. Town-read math D1, then start saying I'm scummy now.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mathdude on September 20, 2021, 08:03:42 pm
I just re-read all of LaLight's 27 posts.

Basically he was pushing pretty hard for MiX and faust.

So let's go from that pool.

I know, I know, WIFOM, but we never actually sheep the dead's reads so scum won't have counted on us doing it.

Also either of those flips are going to be pretty informational.

vote: MiX

Bold added for emphasis. I know my experience here is fairly limited. But I have noticed that through my games here, the dead have an above average probability of having correct reads, yet we almost never do anything about it.

I doubt we're lucky enough that LL picked 2 on D1. But between the two, I still feel MiX is town-ish, so to start the day, I'll sheep LL's faust suspicion for now.

Vote: faust
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 20, 2021, 08:18:03 pm
This is literally town!math being the D1 exile.

And now you vote Math. What changed your mind?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 20, 2021, 08:22:21 pm
I just re-read all of LaLight's 27 posts.

Basically he was pushing pretty hard for MiX and faust.

So let's go from that pool.

I know, I know, WIFOM, but we never actually sheep the dead's reads so scum won't have counted on us doing it.

Also either of those flips are going to be pretty informational.

vote: MiX

The normal argument that we know more now than they did when they died doesn't really apply here because of the nexile, but also, don't you have your own reads?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 20, 2021, 08:24:47 pm
Also, I hate nexiles. I had intended to be there at EoD but my wife pulled me away 10m before deadline and when I remembered to check if I could move my vote last minute I was 2 minutes late and the thread was locked.

I don't think even if I had switched that an exile would have happened, so that's my only consolation.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on September 20, 2021, 09:09:02 pm
I just re-read all of LaLight's 27 posts.

Basically he was pushing pretty hard for MiX and faust.

So let's go from that pool.

I know, I know, WIFOM, but we never actually sheep the dead's reads so scum won't have counted on us doing it.

Also either of those flips are going to be pretty informational.

vote: MiX

The normal argument that we know more now than they did when they died doesn't really apply here because of the nexile, but also, don't you have your own reads?

Well sure but LaLightís an IC.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 20, 2021, 09:12:26 pm
I just re-read all of LaLight's 27 posts.

Basically he was pushing pretty hard for MiX and faust.

So let's go from that pool.

I know, I know, WIFOM, but we never actually sheep the dead's reads so scum won't have counted on us doing it.

Also either of those flips are going to be pretty informational.

vote: MiX

The normal argument that we know more now than they did when they died doesn't really apply here because of the nexile, but also, don't you have your own reads?

Well sure but LaLightís an IC.

Don't you know that ICs have worse information than you because they only know their own alignment, and everyone else knows their alignment plus the IC's alignment??

(Read this in an awaclus voice lol)
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Swowl on September 20, 2021, 09:42:54 pm
Vote: Joth

Whyís that?

Mainly because I preferred Joth yesterday. And as nothing has changed I still prefer him today.
Well tbf I preferred EFHW, but I am off of that for now. I was being stupid.

We should of had an exile yesterday, the fact that we did not just kind of makes me feel like one of them has to be skum.

I could look at it the other way and say "who would of looked hella fishy for moving their vote in the last hour" under the assumption that it was a TVT wagon... However, day one end of day anyone can do anything and it will like literally never be skum read universally as long as the exile goes off.

So I think, because there was no exile... combined with the lack of end of day scrambling... I think one of them is skum. And I think because we had the initial end of day move towards Joth when you changed over and I changed over and EFHW changed over... the fact that that did not happen makes me suspect of Joth.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on September 20, 2021, 09:51:46 pm
Alternatively, they were both town so scum didn't bother to show up at EOD.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 20, 2021, 09:54:10 pm
I'm inclined to think mathdude is Town. He had a very similar reaction to joth as I did, and I'm not sure that it's a reaction that someone who knew joth's alignment would have.

I find joth either definite scum, or definite town... but I have no idea which.

it's either really Towny or really scummy, and I can't put my finger on which.

(Even though my post is immediately after mathdude's,  I hadn't actually read his post properly until after the Day was over.)
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Swowl on September 20, 2021, 09:54:13 pm
I just re-read all of LaLight's 27 posts.

Basically he was pushing pretty hard for MiX and faust.

So let's go from that pool.

I know, I know, WIFOM, but we never actually sheep the dead's reads so scum won't have counted on us doing it.

Also either of those flips are going to be pretty informational.

vote: MiX

The normal argument that we know more now than they did when they died doesn't really apply here because of the nexile, but also, don't you have your own reads?

Well sure but LaLightís an IC.

Well a dead IC. So don't really get the value in town sheeping there. Its not like you know LL was right, you just know they were town.

Also..... abbreviate "dead innocent child" and tell me you don't lol
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Swowl on September 20, 2021, 09:55:36 pm
Alternatively, they were both town so scum didn't bother to show up at EOD.

What is your logic there?
Exile is better than not if they are both town right?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 20, 2021, 10:15:19 pm
Mainly because I preferred Joth yesterday. And as nothing has changed I still prefer him today.

I had you down as Townreading joth?

TLDR; I think Joth is playing too skummy to actually be skum. What am I missing here?

...

TLDRX2; IDK. Almost everything there makes me want to say Joth is skummy af. The thing is... I also just don't think that Joth like... does that as skum. Especially after opening the game they way they did. I am trying to talk myself into skum, but I have to really try so I think I am a no go on Joth today.

And then you didn't mention him again for the Day other than joining his wagon in lieu of an EFHW exile.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 20, 2021, 10:22:36 pm
Alternatively, they were both town so scum didn't bother to show up at EOD.

What is your logic there?
Exile is better than not if they are both town right?

For one, deadline was 5am for me. I'm typically not showing up for that regardless of alignment. Others in more favourable timezones may have had other reasons they couldn't be around, and some have indicated so. It might be worth having a soft deadline in future.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 20, 2021, 10:38:17 pm
Vote: Joth

Whyís that?

Mainly because I preferred Joth yesterday. And as nothing has changed I still prefer him today.
Well tbf I preferred EFHW, but I am off of that for now. I was being stupid.

We should of had an exile yesterday, the fact that we did not just kind of makes me feel like one of them has to be skum.

I could look at it the other way and say "who would of looked hella fishy for moving their vote in the last hour" under the assumption that it was a TVT wagon... However, day one end of day anyone can do anything and it will like literally never be skum read universally as long as the exile goes off.

So I think, because there was no exile... combined with the lack of end of day scrambling... I think one of them is skum. And I think because we had the initial end of day move towards Joth when you changed over and I changed over and EFHW changed over... the fact that that did not happen makes me suspect of Joth.

I didnít understand this post at all.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Swowl on September 20, 2021, 11:05:46 pm
Mainly because I preferred Joth yesterday. And as nothing has changed I still prefer him today.

I had you down as Townreading joth?

TLDR; I think Joth is playing too skummy to actually be skum. What am I missing here?

...

TLDRX2; IDK. Almost everything there makes me want to say Joth is skummy af. The thing is... I also just don't think that Joth like... does that as skum. Especially after opening the game they way they did. I am trying to talk myself into skum, but I have to really try so I think I am a no go on Joth today.

And then you didn't mention him again for the Day other than joining his wagon in lieu of an EFHW exile.

Pretty much the people on the wagons. I was/am way more suspicious of the people on Math than I was on Joth. I wanted an exile to happen so I needed to move from efoo. So I sheeped the one with more of my TRs
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Swowl on September 20, 2021, 11:09:09 pm
Vote: Joth

Whyís that?

Mainly because I preferred Joth yesterday. And as nothing has changed I still prefer him today.
Well tbf I preferred EFHW, but I am off of that for now. I was being stupid.

We should of had an exile yesterday, the fact that we did not just kind of makes me feel like one of them has to be skum.

I could look at it the other way and say "who would of looked hella fishy for moving their vote in the last hour" under the assumption that it was a TVT wagon... However, day one end of day anyone can do anything and it will like literally never be skum read universally as long as the exile goes off.

So I think, because there was no exile... combined with the lack of end of day scrambling... I think one of them is skum. And I think because we had the initial end of day move towards Joth when you changed over and I changed over and EFHW changed over... the fact that that did not happen makes me suspect of Joth.

I didnít understand this post at all.

TLDR; I think you are skum because I think one of either Math or Joth are skum. And I pick you over Math.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Swowl on September 20, 2021, 11:11:03 pm
Alternatively, they were both town so scum didn't bother to show up at EOD.

What is your logic there?
Exile is better than not if they are both town right?

For one, deadline was 5am for me. I'm typically not showing up for that regardless of alignment. Others in more favourable timezones may have had other reasons they couldn't be around, and some have indicated so. It might be worth having a soft deadline in future.

efoo's note mentioned "they didn't bother to show up". Obvious IRL timezone stuff or whatever you just have to disregard. My question was based on the language leading me to believe she thought they purposefully did not come into the game.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 20, 2021, 11:16:06 pm
So Swowl, you're basing your vote on joth, who you fairly recently said you didn't think was scum, on the assumption that the wagons weren't Town v Town and the unconfirmed alignments of those on the wagons?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Swowl on September 20, 2021, 11:25:30 pm
So Swowl, you're basing your vote on joth, who you fairly recently said you didn't think was scum, on the assumption that the wagons weren't Town v Town and the unconfirmed alignments of those on the wagons?

You would make a great lawyer.
Yes, that is what I am saying. It was also day 1, so there were no confirmed alignments.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 20, 2021, 11:31:59 pm
No I'm talking about now. I get voting for the least bad alternative leading up to deadline, but an early Day 2 vote suggests your read on joth has changed. Given you now have ten other alternatives, I'm not finding your reasoning convincing, particularly in contrast to the long, thought-out post in which you concluded joth was Town.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Swowl on September 20, 2021, 11:39:44 pm
No I'm talking about now. I get voting for the least bad alternative leading up to deadline, but an early Day 2 vote suggests your read on joth has changed. Given you now have ten other alternatives, I'm not finding your reasoning convincing, particularly in contrast to the long, thought-out post in which you concluded joth was Town.

1. I said I think either Joth or Math are skum. Regardless of how you feel about it, that is what I think. So, I do not have 10 to pick from, I have 2.
2. As you said, I thought yesterday that Joth was the "least bad alternative".
3. Joth opened with a vote for MiX, which I find as a skummy vote.

Add 1+2+3 = vote Joth.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Swowl on September 20, 2021, 11:41:18 pm
I am actually a little confused of your fixation on this. Would you of asked me the same (yet different) question if I had opened with a Math vote?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 20, 2021, 11:42:58 pm
And you now think that joth isn't playing too scummy to scum, and that he does do that as scum? Are you sure you haven't just talked yourself into scum?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 20, 2021, 11:44:29 pm
I am actually a little confused of your fixation on this. Would you of asked me the same (yet different) question if I had opened with a Math vote?

No, the only read I see of yours on math is a "middle leaning scummy" read.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 20, 2021, 11:45:46 pm
I would still question the assumption that one of them is scum though.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Swowl on September 20, 2021, 11:46:39 pm
And you now think that joth isn't playing too scummy to scum, and that he does do that as scum? Are you sure you haven't just talked yourself into scum?

you know I was actually just thinking that I could be after I posted the previous.

ppe 2
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Swowl on September 20, 2021, 11:48:37 pm
so then you are entertaining the idea that it was TVT and also skum didn't show up to make it happen?

You are not voting math, so then you think that skum was just trapped where they were?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 20, 2021, 11:58:39 pm
I'm open to possibilities, but I wouldn't allow assumptions of what scum would or wouldn't do to override any previous reads I might have had. Wagon analysis is a factor, but only one of many. Unless you can argue who the scum were who would have helped with the exile but didn't want to bus, I see no reason to assume anything.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Swowl on September 21, 2021, 12:03:41 am
I'm open to possibilities, but I wouldn't allow assumptions of what scum would or wouldn't do to override any previous reads I might have had. Wagon analysis is a factor, but only one of many. Unless you can argue who the scum were who would have helped with the exile but didn't want to bus, I see no reason to assume anything.

Don't actually do this because it would be a huge waste of time.
But when in the world can you think of game that is open like this in which there has been a no lynch day 1 and one of the wagons were not skum?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Swowl on September 21, 2021, 12:04:06 am
fuck *exile* sorry.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 21, 2021, 12:08:35 am
fuck *exile* sorry.

I've had to replace "lynch" with "exile" in my posts a whole bunch of times, and I'm sure sooner or later one will get through.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 21, 2021, 12:09:41 am
Mainly because I preferred Joth yesterday. And as nothing has changed I still prefer him today.

I had you down as Townreading joth?

TLDR; I think Joth is playing too skummy to actually be skum. What am I missing here?

...

TLDRX2; IDK. Almost everything there makes me want to say Joth is skummy af. The thing is... I also just don't think that Joth like... does that as skum. Especially after opening the game they way they did. I am trying to talk myself into skum, but I have to really try so I think I am a no go on Joth today.

And then you didn't mention him again for the Day other than joining his wagon in lieu of an EFHW exile.

I also want to know about this. You claimed that Joth was too scummy to be scum and I thought you said that Math was your second scum read after EFHW. Then when time came to vote... you voted Joth.

What happened there?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 21, 2021, 12:13:04 am
Ok, I see you say that you had more townreads on the Joth wagon than the Math wagon.

@Swowl Who was scummy on the Math wagon and who was towny on the Joth wagon that made you pick Joth over Math EoD1?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 21, 2021, 12:15:34 am
I'm open to possibilities, but I wouldn't allow assumptions of what scum would or wouldn't do to override any previous reads I might have had. Wagon analysis is a factor, but only one of many. Unless you can argue who the scum were who would have helped with the exile but didn't want to bus, I see no reason to assume anything.

Don't actually do this because it would be a huge waste of time.
But when in the world can you think of game that is open like this in which there has been a no lynch day 1 and one of the wagons were not skum?

I would have thought the sample size here would be low enough that you couldn't really conclude anything.

To make sure I understand:
There are three scum in this game. You're arguing that what happened was (at least, but presumably exactly) one scum was a candidate, and the remaining two refused to bus them in a situation where if they were Town they would have helped get an exile through, and those two scum made the difference between an exile going through or not?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 21, 2021, 12:18:26 am
And also that we can be certain enough of this that we should only consider those same wagons for Today's exile?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mathdude on September 21, 2021, 12:38:04 am
And also that we can be certain enough of this that we should only consider those same wagons for Today's exile?

We're talking the difference between probable and possible. Discussions so far today have been focused on what's stated as "probable". It would be tough to crunch numbers on such a situation, since it's not perfectly random, independent events. We're talking interactions, teammates, time zones and online times, etc.

Probable is helpful D1, especially toward end of day. And if we don't sort stuff out through 5 or 6 days in D2, maybe we look back at "probable" EoD2 as well. But tunneling on it for 7 days is not helpful.

Let's look at what else is possible. Open up the conversation. I'll leave my vote for now - because it's possible he's scum. I don't know yet how probable, but that will likely sort itself out over the next couple days.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on September 21, 2021, 12:40:05 am
Also, I hate nexiles. I had intended to be there at EoD but my wife pulled me away 10m before deadline and when I remembered to check if I could move my vote last minute I was 2 minutes late and the thread was locked.

I don't think even if I had switched that an exile would have happened, so that's my only consolation.
Yeah, I was also 3 minutes late. I feel that having the deadline on a weekend didn't help things.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on September 21, 2021, 12:43:11 am
Alternatively, they were both town so scum didn't bother to show up at EOD.
Meh. If this is TvT then scum absolutely wants to exile one of them. they had a prime chance to exile someone without the chance to claim there.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on September 21, 2021, 12:45:03 am
vote: joth
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 21, 2021, 12:46:07 am
And also that we can be certain enough of this that we should only consider those same wagons for Today's exile?

We're talking the difference between probable and possible. Discussions so far today have been focused on what's stated as "probable". It would be tough to crunch numbers on such a situation, since it's not perfectly random, independent events. We're talking interactions, teammates, time zones and online times, etc.

Probable is helpful D1, especially toward end of day. And if we don't sort stuff out through 5 or 6 days in D2, maybe we look back at "probable" EoD2 as well. But tunneling on it for 7 days is not helpful.

Let's look at what else is possible. Open up the conversation. I'll leave my vote for now - because it's possible he's scum. I don't know yet how probable, but that will likely sort itself out over the next couple days.

I'm not talking about possible vs probable. Anything that I don't know to be impossible is possible. "Certain" may have been the wrong word - I meant "consider sufficiently probable". I'm not convinced that Swowl's theory is more probable than random, let alone sufficiently probable. And I also have to weigh it against the fact that I think mathdude and joth are each some amount more likely than average to be Town.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 21, 2021, 12:46:29 am
Alternatively, they were both town so scum didn't bother to show up at EOD.
Meh. If this is TvT then scum absolutely wants to exile one of them. they had a prime chance to exile someone without the chance to claim there.

When and who?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on September 21, 2021, 12:48:59 am
Alternatively, they were both town so scum didn't bother to show up at EOD.
Meh. If this is TvT then scum absolutely wants to exile one of them. they had a prime chance to exile someone without the chance to claim there.

When and who?
Well, either mathdude or joth, just before the deadline.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Swowl on September 21, 2021, 12:50:09 am
Ok, I see you say that you had more townreads on the Joth wagon than the Math wagon.

@Swowl Who was scummy on the Math wagon and who was towny on the Joth wagon that made you pick Joth over Math EoD1?

I have already mentioned that WCD and MiX are my TRs on the Joth wagon.
I have already mentioned that I think Jimmm is town, from the Math wagon.
I have not mentioned that I think you are moderately skummy so far this game.

Those would be my big three.

ppe - tons of faust
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 21, 2021, 12:51:46 am
Alternatively, they were both town so scum didn't bother to show up at EOD.
Meh. If this is TvT then scum absolutely wants to exile one of them. they had a prime chance to exile someone without the chance to claim there.

When and who?
Well, either mathdude or joth, just before the deadline.

No, I mean who had the chance to exile them?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on September 21, 2021, 12:59:36 am
Alternatively, they were both town so scum didn't bother to show up at EOD.
Meh. If this is TvT then scum absolutely wants to exile one of them. they had a prime chance to exile someone without the chance to claim there.

When and who?
Well, either mathdude or joth, just before the deadline.

No, I mean who had the chance to exile them?
Pretty much anyone? It's easy to justify a last-minute switch in the face of "we need an exile".
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Swowl on September 21, 2021, 01:07:26 am
I'm open to possibilities, but I wouldn't allow assumptions of what scum would or wouldn't do to override any previous reads I might have had. Wagon analysis is a factor, but only one of many. Unless you can argue who the scum were who would have helped with the exile but didn't want to bus, I see no reason to assume anything.

Don't actually do this because it would be a huge waste of time.
But when in the world can you think of game that is open like this in which there has been a no lynch day 1 and one of the wagons were not skum?

I would have thought the sample size here would be low enough that you couldn't really conclude anything.

To make sure I understand:
There are three scum in this game. You're arguing that what happened was (at least, but presumably exactly) one scum was a candidate, and the remaining two refused to bus them in a situation where if they were Town they would have helped get an exile through, and those two scum made the difference between an exile going through or not?

No clue on what you mean about sample size. In the very small amount of sites I have played on since I started I would very much argue that you can pro-town argue policy anything with group over pretty much anywhere else I have played.

And... yes, or at least kind of. Just like... why would skum not take advantage of a claim situation potential like that if they could go for either/or?

PPE a lot
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Swowl on September 21, 2021, 01:10:19 am
Alternatively, they were both town so scum didn't bother to show up at EOD.
Meh. If this is TvT then scum absolutely wants to exile one of them. they had a prime chance to exile someone without the chance to claim there.

this. also, they would be thinking they could get a town claim out of it, not just defense on skum not having to claim.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Swowl on September 21, 2021, 01:17:40 am
And also that we can be certain enough of this that we should only consider those same wagons for Today's exile?

? the certainty I have is based on the things I have said about how I think one of them are skum. If you disagree, that is cool. But we did not get an exile, so yeah... the majority of my focus during the night was on the wagons we had from Day 1. 
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 21, 2021, 02:05:05 am
What a waste of time.

Jimmmmm, why can't we focus on the wagons first for the sole reason people scumread them?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 21, 2021, 02:07:38 am
That's an excellent reason to focus on them.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 21, 2021, 02:17:00 am
Player     Vote     Last post (time before deadline)     Wagons at time of last post     Ability to be around at deadline     Willingness to change vote
MiXjothAround at deadline     math 5, joth 4YesUnwilling to move to mathdude
SwowljothAround at deadlinemath 5, joth 4YesDid not move to mathdude, but later said he tried to
EFHWmathAround at deadlinemath 5, joth 4YesYes
iguanamath30 minutesmath 4, joth 4, Jim 3No indicationIndicated willing to avoid nexile
gkriegmath45 minutesmath 4, joth 3, Jim 3Indicated likely inabilityjoth yes, Jim no
emath55 minutesmath 4, joth 3, Jim 3No indicationjoth yes, Jim no
faustjoth1 hourmath 4, joth 3, Jim 3No indicationNo indication
mathJim1.5 hoursmath 4, joth 3, Jim 3No indicationPresumed willing due to self-preservation
Jimmath3 hoursmath 4, joth 3, Jim 3Indicated inability due to timezonesNo indication
jothJim3 hoursmath 3, joth 3, Jim 3Later indicated inability due to RL stuff     Presumed willing due to self-preservation
Diddsjoth3.5 hoursmath 3, joth 3, Jim 3Unsure due to going to the lakeYes
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on September 21, 2021, 02:24:28 am
Why is it relevant to include what joth said about his availability after the fact, but not for me or iguana?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 21, 2021, 02:26:59 am
I'm not seeing too many opportunities to get an exile through. MiX and Swowl could have exiled math, so you could argue for a math/MiX/Swowl team.
Aside from from those around at deadline, at the time of each person's last post, the biggest wagon was 4 (X - 3), and for most the biggest opposing wagon was 3 (X - 4). You could argue iguana should have switched to joth or faust or Didds should have switched to math, or that you don't believe people who say they weren't available, but given how late it was when anyone hit 4 or 5 votes, I would attribute the no exile to general disorganisation and failure to come to consensus, rather than 1-2 people not doing what they should have.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 21, 2021, 02:27:27 am
Why is it relevant to include what joth said about his availability after the fact, but not for me or iguana?

Thanks, I should have checked. Hang on.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 21, 2021, 02:33:27 am
Player     Vote     Last post (time before deadline)     Wagons at time of last post     Ability to change vote before deadline     Willingness to change vote
MiXjothAround at deadline     math 5, joth 4YesUnwilling to move to mathdude
SwowljothAround at deadlinemath 5, joth 4YesDid not move to mathdude, but later indicated he tried to but was late
EFHWmathAround at deadlinemath 5, joth 4YesYes
iguanamath30 minutesmath 4, joth 4, Jim 3Later indicated inability due to being pulled away, and then was late     Indicated willing to avoid nexile
gkriegmath45 minutesmath 4, joth 3, Jim 3Indicated likely inabilityjoth yes, Jim no
emath55 minutesmath 4, joth 3, Jim 3No indicationjoth yes, Jim no
faustjoth1 hourmath 4, joth 3, Jim 3Later indicated he tried to but was lateNo indication
mathJim1.5 hoursmath 4, joth 3, Jim 3No indicationPresumed willing due to self-preservation
Jimmath3 hoursmath 4, joth 3, Jim 3Inability due to timezonesNo indication
jothJim3 hoursmath 3, joth 3, Jim 3Later indicated inability due to RL stuff     Presumed willing due to self-preservation
Diddsjoth3.5 hoursmath 3, joth 3, Jim 3Unsure due to going to the lakeYes
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 21, 2021, 02:55:05 am
Actually funnily enough both joth and mathdude had their votes on me instead of each other, so if you want to argue that scum were responsible for the no-exile, I think there's a stronger argument that they're both scum than that one of them is.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on September 21, 2021, 04:28:59 am
Hey Jimmmmm, could you explain in more detail what made you vote mathdude over joth? Your EoD1 posts are a bit terse on the issue, which is understandable given the lack of time.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on September 21, 2021, 04:50:25 am
I'm not seeing too many opportunities to get an exile through. MiX and Swowl could have exiled math, so you could argue for a math/MiX/Swowl team.
Aside from from those around at deadline, at the time of each person's last post, the biggest wagon was 4 (X - 3), and for most the biggest opposing wagon was 3 (X - 4). You could argue iguana should have switched to joth or faust or Didds should have switched to math, or that you don't believe people who say they weren't available, but given how late it was when anyone hit 4 or 5 votes, I would attribute the no exile to general disorganisation and failure to come to consensus, rather than 1-2 people not doing what they should have.
This analysis is alright, and I don't think the nexile was due to people maliciously skipping the deadline. However "General disorganisation" is something that scum definitely had an impact on. The leading wagon at the end was joth, and it started fairly late, and at the time a lot of people were hesitant to join for very lackluster reasons. Here is a timeline:

Vote: joth
Me starting the joth wagon. T-21 hours.

Vote: joth

This follow logically.

I agree with you.
MiX voices agreement but won't join me in voting. T-21 hours.

TLDR; I think Joth is playing too skummy to actually be skum. What am I missing here?
[...]
TLDRX2; IDK. Almost everything there makes me want to say Joth is skummy af. The thing is... I also just don't think that Joth like... does that as skum. Especially after opening the game they way they did. I am trying to talk myself into skum, but I have to really try so I think I am a no go on Joth today.
Swowl investigates joth and does a weird "too scummy to be scum" defense. T-14.5 hours.

I guess I'll end by saying I find joth either definite scum, or definite town... but I have no idea which.  It's not one of those "in-the-middle, slightly leaning one way" deals.  Except that it is, because I don't know which way I'm leaning.  Not a viable wagon D1 at this point anyway here, so I'll check back again D2 if/when relevant.
mathdude does not perceive joth to be a viable option and that's his main reason against voting there. T-14 hours.

I think joth's town. But this looks really weird. It probably means joth is scum, but I don't know, I like wall posts from joth and he's been making enough...

This isn't an easy person to read today I'd say.
MiX is also very ambivalent about joth, which seems in contrast to his earlier reaction to my vote. T-5.5 hours.

What can I say guys? Iím a mystery wrapped in an enigma wrapped in a tortilla.

Vote: joth

A smart man once said, the only sure way to know someone's alignment...
MiX finally join and makes joth into a wagon; late enough that it is very unlikely to succeed. T-5 hours.

I think I have some understanding of joth's game so far now, and it's making a bit more sense. I think the "stick to a read" plan explains the vibe I (and I gather Swowl) was getting, and it sounds likely to be a premeditated (ie non-alignment-dependent) plan. I think I'm leaning slight Town, but also that he warrants further investigation on a future Day.
Jimmmmm joins the club of "uh I don't really know but let's look at this tomorrow". At least this point has an actual read in it. T-4 hours.

Vote: Joth
This vote from Didds makes joth a semi-viable option. I feel like they can't be partners. T-3.5 hours.

Okay I just said I'm not joining the mathdude wagon but I have to put my vote somewhere more useful than where it is, and I prefer mathdude to the other options. Sorry folks, but I'm going to have to turn it in. Might be around for another 10 minutes or so if there are any last-minute questions or anything.

Vote: mathdude
Jimmmmm joins a wagon he expressed dislike for rather than the wagon on joth. T-3 hours.

If we're going to exile someone, Jimmmmm seems the most helpful, and IMO, most likely to be scum.
EFHW should also be good tp get future reads on people, but I think she's town so I won't vote there.
Joth would also be a good vote, or maybe MiX.
mathdude calls joth a "good vote" but prefers to stick to the dying Jimmmmm wagon. T-1.5 hours.

And from there we go into EoD territory explored by Jimmmmm. It strikes my as extremely odd how many people were hesitant about the joth wagon despite barely anyone actually townreading him.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 21, 2021, 07:08:49 am
"MiX is also very ambivalent about joth, which seems in contrast to his earlier reaction to my vote. T-5.5 hours"

This is true in hindsight but not when I voted. T-5 hours is a reasonable time.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 21, 2021, 07:10:20 am
"MiX finally join and makes joth into a wagon; late enough that it is very unlikely to succeed. T-5 hours."

This is true in hindsight but not when I voted. T-5 hours is a reasonable time.

EBWOP
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 21, 2021, 07:28:19 am
Vote: Joth

Whyís that?

Mainly because I preferred Joth yesterday. And as nothing has changed I still prefer him today.
Well tbf I preferred EFHW, but I am off of that for now. I was being stupid.

We should of had an exile yesterday, the fact that we did not just kind of makes me feel like one of them has to be skum.

I could look at it the other way and say "who would of looked hella fishy for moving their vote in the last hour" under the assumption that it was a TVT wagon... However, day one end of day anyone can do anything and it will like literally never be skum read universally as long as the exile goes off.

So I think, because there was no exile... combined with the lack of end of day scrambling... I think one of them is skum. And I think because we had the initial end of day move towards Joth when you changed over and I changed over and EFHW changed over... the fact that that did not happen makes me suspect of Joth.

Cool. Weíre sympatico. Iíve been thinking a lot about our inability to exile Joth (or EFHW, but there was less traction there) and what could have made it so hard. Scumminess has been my answer.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 21, 2021, 07:49:24 am
I responded to Swowl above before realizing there were 2 more pages of content.

Jim, I freaking love your chart. Deadline mid-day on a weekend is tough. But I think a part of inability to coalesce is related to scum not needing to bus. Joth and math both got up to E-2 on the last day, but it was easy to just stay and possibility not lose a buddy than to bus. I think if they had both been town, thereíd have been more willingness on the part of scum to move to get one of them bounced.

I feel like the Joth wagon had different people on it earlier? Is that right? Iíll need to go grad all the VCs when Iím on a computer, but Iím curious about both math and Joths wagon earlier in the game. Iíll do that later today!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on September 21, 2021, 08:00:06 am
"MiX finally join and makes joth into a wagon; late enough that it is very unlikely to succeed. T-5 hours."

This is true in hindsight but not when I voted. T-5 hours is a reasonable time.

EBWOP
This ignores that you seemed about ready to vote at T-21 hours, but delayed for 16 hours.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 21, 2021, 08:08:18 am
Meh.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 21, 2021, 08:11:14 am
Yíall are substituting wagon analysis for reads ina way that is very tempting, but ultimately self-defeating.

We should be looking at MiX and faust. Especially faust. Give me some time Iíll put together a cogent case.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 21, 2021, 08:14:59 am
I responded to Swowl above before realizing there were 2 more pages of content.

Jim, I freaking love your chart. Deadline mid-day on a weekend is tough. But I think a part of inability to coalesce is related to scum not needing to bus. Joth and math both got up to E-2 on the last day, but it was easy to just stay and possibility not lose a buddy than to bus. I think if they had both been town, thereíd have been more willingness on the part of scum to move to get one of them bounced.

I feel like the Joth wagon had different people on it earlier? Is that right? Iíll need to go grad all the VCs when Iím on a computer, but Iím curious about both math and Joths wagon earlier in the game. Iíll do that later today!
Earlier joth wagon was really quite early.

joth (4): iguana, Jimmmmm, MiX, faust

Early Jimmmmm wagon:

Jimmmmm (5): faust, MiX, mathdude, EFHW, joth

So compared to the end-of-day wagons, the people on Jimmmmm just stayed there, other than me and MiX who went back to joth.

I suppose iguana and Jimmmmm's later unwillingness to switch to joth is somewhat suspect. Looking back I especially found these back-to-back posts curious:
Jimmmmm (3): mathdude, EFHW, jotheonah
mathdude (4): 2.71828....., iguanaiguana, gkrieg13, Jimmmmm
MiX (1): LaLight
joth (4): faust, MiX, WestCoastDidds, Swowl
Fine, vote: joth
The former is the last post iguana makes. Assembling a vote count does not seem like the action of a player who's about to disappear. iguana says this:
Also, I hate nexiles. I had intended to be there at EoD but my wife pulled me away 10m before deadline and when I remembered to check if I could move my vote last minute I was 2 minutes late and the thread was locked.
Now I know that is probably not a precise measurement, but EFHW's vote was more than 10 minutes before deadline.
iguana: Can you confirm of deny that you saw EFHW's vote before D1 ended?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 21, 2021, 08:16:24 am
Yíall are substituting wagon analysis for reads ina way that is very tempting, but ultimately self-defeating.

We should be looking at MiX and faust. Especially faust. Give me some time Iíll put together a cogent case.

Killing LL to push me and faust doesn't work cause LL always scumreads us. You should've known that.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on September 21, 2021, 08:19:02 am
Yíall are substituting wagon analysis for reads ina way that is very tempting, but ultimately self-defeating.

We should be looking at MiX and faust. Especially faust. Give me some time Iíll put together a cogent case.

Killing LL to push me and faust doesn't work cause LL always scumreads us. You should've known that.
Can confirm that this is the case. I am not sure that your argument works though: Even if LaLight always scumreads us, it is still beneficial for scum!us to remove them.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 21, 2021, 08:22:22 am
Jim, I freaking love your chart. Deadline mid-day on a weekend is tough. But I think a part of inability to coalesce is related to scum not needing to bus. Joth and math both got up to E-2 on the last day, but it was easy to just stay and possibility not lose a buddy than to bus. I think if they had both been town, thereíd have been more willingness on the part of scum to move to get one of them bounced.

Ha, I knew you'd comment on it! :)

As far as I can see, the only time either of them got to 5 votes was when EFHW put them there about 15 and 5 minutes before deadline. It's not like a stalemate 6-6 where everyone refused to budge. Only 9 people were on the two main wagons at Day's end, which means in order to get an exile, all but 2 of them would have to end up together.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 21, 2021, 08:27:02 am
I mean surely if anyone's to blame for the no-exile it's joth, math and LL for not being on one of the main wagons at Day's end.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 21, 2021, 08:27:46 am
Yíall are substituting wagon analysis for reads ina way that is very tempting, but ultimately self-defeating.

We should be looking at MiX and faust. Especially faust. Give me some time Iíll put together a cogent case.

Killing LL to push me and faust doesn't work cause LL always scumreads us. You should've known that.
Can confirm that this is the case. I am not sure that your argument works though: Even if LaLight always scumreads us, it is still beneficial for scum!us to remove them.

But it's not beneficial for other scum teams to kill them to push us, right?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on September 21, 2021, 08:34:38 am
Yíall are substituting wagon analysis for reads ina way that is very tempting, but ultimately self-defeating.

We should be looking at MiX and faust. Especially faust. Give me some time Iíll put together a cogent case.

Killing LL to push me and faust doesn't work cause LL always scumreads us. You should've known that.
Can confirm that this is the case. I am not sure that your argument works though: Even if LaLight always scumreads us, it is still beneficial for scum!us to remove them.

But it's not beneficial for other scum teams to kill them to push us, right?
Why not? What I wrote above provides a reason for why scum!us would kill LaLight, and thus if LaLight dies we can be pushed with that reasoning.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on September 21, 2021, 08:36:53 am
I mean surely if anyone's to blame for the no-exile it's joth, math and LL for not being on one of the main wagons at Day's end.
What point are you trying to make with this?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 21, 2021, 08:44:42 am
I mean surely if anyone's to blame for the no-exile it's joth, math and LL for not being on one of the main wagons at Day's end.
What point are you trying to make with this?

That we shouldn't assume that a no-exile can only happen because of scum refusing to bus.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on September 21, 2021, 08:46:42 am
I mean surely if anyone's to blame for the no-exile it's joth, math and LL for not being on one of the main wagons at Day's end.
What point are you trying to make with this?

That we shouldn't assume that a no-exile can only happen because of scum refusing to bus.
Is anyone assuming this?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on September 21, 2021, 08:50:11 am
Alternatively, they were both town so scum didn't bother to show up at EOD.

What is your logic there?
Exile is better than not if they are both town right?

They would have assumed that town would make sure an exile went through. Jimmmmm was the only one with an inconvenient time zone, I think. I'm not saying I think this is what happened. I'm saying it is just as likely as your theory.

Loath though I am to admit it, I am agreeing with Jimmmmm here. Your conclusion that one of them has to be scum is flimsy at best, and then you say there are only two choices, math and joth.

The no exile is also complicated by the fact that MiX says he was policy not-voting math because of all the early exiles math has had.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 21, 2021, 08:55:31 am
I mean surely if anyone's to blame for the no-exile it's joth, math and LL for not being on one of the main wagons at Day's end.
What point are you trying to make with this?

That we shouldn't assume that a no-exile can only happen because of scum refusing to bus.
Is anyone assuming this?

Hopefully not any more.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 21, 2021, 09:00:04 am
I mean surely if anyone's to blame for the no-exile it's joth, math and LL for not being on one of the main wagons at Day's end.

Which is exactly what makes math and me town.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 21, 2021, 09:02:23 am
Well, Town also wants to make sure the other guy is exiled.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on September 21, 2021, 09:06:31 am
Yíall are substituting wagon analysis for reads ina way that is very tempting, but ultimately self-defeating.

We should be looking at MiX and faust. Especially faust. Give me some time Iíll put together a cogent case.
A wise man would call this
Thinly veiled OMGUS.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on September 21, 2021, 09:06:44 am
I had the same issue as Didds - Didn't realize I had 50 more posts to read, and no PPE. I still agree with my post, but it seems to ignore subsequent comments because I hadn't read them yet.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 21, 2021, 10:39:32 am
I responded to Swowl above before realizing there were 2 more pages of content.

Jim, I freaking love your chart. Deadline mid-day on a weekend is tough. But I think a part of inability to coalesce is related to scum not needing to bus. Joth and math both got up to E-2 on the last day, but it was easy to just stay and possibility not lose a buddy than to bus. I think if they had both been town, thereíd have been more willingness on the part of scum to move to get one of them bounced.

I feel like the Joth wagon had different people on it earlier? Is that right? Iíll need to go grad all the VCs when Iím on a computer, but Iím curious about both math and Joths wagon earlier in the game. Iíll do that later today!
Earlier joth wagon was really quite early.

joth (4): iguana, Jimmmmm, MiX, faust

Early Jimmmmm wagon:

Jimmmmm (5): faust, MiX, mathdude, EFHW, joth

So compared to the end-of-day wagons, the people on Jimmmmm just stayed there, other than me and MiX who went back to joth.

Thanks for doing this for me, faust. That is a bit different than I remembered (I didn't recall that it was really early) but I can see wht I had the sense that Joth was scummy most of the day in that I think that wagon you listed above is all town.

I suppose iguana and Jimmmmm's later unwillingness to switch to joth is somewhat suspect. Looking back I especially found these back-to-back posts curious:
Jimmmmm (3): mathdude, EFHW, jotheonah
mathdude (4): 2.71828....., iguanaiguana, gkrieg13, Jimmmmm
MiX (1): LaLight
joth (4): faust, MiX, WestCoastDidds, Swowl
Fine, vote: joth
The former is the last post iguana makes. Assembling a vote count does not seem like the action of a player who's about to disappear. iguana says this:
Also, I hate nexiles. I had intended to be there at EoD but my wife pulled me away 10m before deadline and when I remembered to check if I could move my vote last minute I was 2 minutes late and the thread was locked.
Now I know that is probably not a precise measurement, but EFHW's vote was more than 10 minutes before deadline.
iguana: Can you confirm of deny that you saw EFHW's vote before D1 ended?

EFHWs Joth vote was like 15 minutes before deadlines, so I am not super suspicious of someone estimating that as ten minutes. But its a fair point.
Title: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dylan32 on September 21, 2021, 10:46:30 am
Orange spoke up, "I saw Blue and Black in electrical, and there is a vent connecting those two rooms, so if one left without the other maybe the second one to leave vented up and killed!"

Vote Count 2.1

mathdude (2): MiX, 2.71828.....
MiX (1): jotheonah
jotheonah (2): Swowl, faust
faust (1): mathdude
Not Voting (5): gkrieg13, Jimmmmm, iguanaiguana, EFHW, WestCoastDidds

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to exile. Day 2 will end September 27, 2021, 03:00:00 pm.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on September 21, 2021, 10:56:05 am
This is literally town!math being the D1 exile.

And now you vote Math. What changed your mind?
It must needs be remarked that MiX has rudely ignored this question.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 21, 2021, 10:59:40 am
This is literally town!math being the D1 exile.

And now you vote Math. What changed your mind?
It must needs be remarked that MiX has rudely ignored this question.

I think he's scummy.

I actually had time to reread him at night.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 21, 2021, 11:59:08 am
faust's case makes a ton of sense, but it's faust and he literally always convinces me, even when he's scum.

Joth's case is not super convincing. It's basically, let's sheep Lalight. But I townread Joth for more of the day yesterday, and I still am not seeing it now.

This is all making me even more frustrated that I didn't manage to get my vote to Joth yesterday. If we knew Joth's alignment right now, this whole day could be very different and we would know whether to be looking at the people who were partnery with him or the people who drove his exile. 

I am very much not sorted right now and suspicious of everyone who came in and voted right away before any discussion.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 21, 2021, 11:59:46 am
This is literally town!math being the D1 exile.

And now you vote Math. What changed your mind?
It must needs be remarked that MiX has rudely ignored this question.

I think he's scummy.

I actually had time to reread him at night.

How is it that you make up your mind so quickly? Don't you care what other people say on day 2??
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 21, 2021, 12:01:02 pm
faust's case makes a ton of sense, but it's faust and he literally always convinces me, even when he's scum.

Joth's case is not super convincing. It's basically, let's sheep Lalight. But I townread Joth for more of the day yesterday, and I still am not seeing it now.

This is all making me even more frustrated that I didn't manage to get my vote to Joth yesterday. If we knew Joth's alignment right now, this whole day could be very different and we would know whether to be looking at the people who were partnery with him or the people who drove his exile. 

I am very much not sorted right now and suspicious of everyone who came in and voted right away before any discussion.

more=most

To be clear the only time I was starting to consider a possible scum joth was the very end of the day after WCD voted.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 21, 2021, 12:02:18 pm
Well, Town also wants to make sure the other guy is exiled.

Yes, I'm annoyed with both of them.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 21, 2021, 12:05:02 pm
Also, have to say this.

I've never seen someone use a spreadsheet before. It made me think of of when Teproc dumped his entire QT into the thread and made no QT quoting a rule lol. Jim is playing next level here.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 21, 2021, 12:06:21 pm
What a waste of time.

Jimmmmm, why can't we focus on the wagons first for the sole reason people scumread them?

I don't understand this post. Can you explain. What were you calling a waste of time?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 21, 2021, 12:09:38 pm
Ok, I see you say that you had more townreads on the Joth wagon than the Math wagon.

@Swowl Who was scummy on the Math wagon and who was towny on the Joth wagon that made you pick Joth over Math EoD1?

I have already mentioned that WCD and MiX are my TRs on the Joth wagon.
I have already mentioned that I think Jimmm is town, from the Math wagon.
I have not mentioned that I think you are moderately skummy so far this game.

Those would be my big three.

ppe - tons of faust

Ok, I keep tripping over this and it's not because of OMGUS. I don't know if it really checks out.

TR on WCD - sure, whatever. She gets those.
TR on MiX????

And then you say you voted Joth over Math because I was voting Math and you don't trust me.

First of all, why? You ignored me yesterday for one.

Also, IIRC I was already voting Math when you first called Math scummy, so why didn't my scumminess enter into your calculus at the the time you first read him?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on September 21, 2021, 01:12:21 pm
If we knew Joth's alignment right now, this whole day could be very different and we would know whether to be looking at the people who were partnery with him or the people who drove his exile.

On the other hand, I'm alive right now which is nice.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 21, 2021, 02:00:46 pm
Also, have to say this.

I've never seen someone use a spreadsheet before. It made me think of of when Teproc dumped his entire QT into the thread and made no QT quoting a rule lol. Jim is playing next level here.

We need Space back!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 21, 2021, 02:03:48 pm
This is literally town!math being the D1 exile.

And now you vote Math. What changed your mind?
It must needs be remarked that MiX has rudely ignored this question.

I think he's scummy.

I actually had time to reread him at night.

How is it that you make up your mind so quickly? Don't you care what other people say on day 2??

Night time is 2 days, I think it's reasonable to get a read like "I think he's scummy".

Yes I care about what people say, which is why I haven't explained why I scumread him.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 21, 2021, 02:08:34 pm
What a waste of time.

Jimmmmm, why can't we focus on the wagons first for the sole reason people scumread them?

I don't understand this post. Can you explain. What were you calling a waste of time?

Jimmmmm's...posts D2. Like, all of them. The way he was arguing about the wagon analysis felt like he was shooting down any meaningful discussion.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 21, 2021, 02:09:25 pm
Iguana, I understand you can't fathom having a townread on me, but others can.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 21, 2021, 02:20:10 pm
I got you, iguana. MiX is being very town MiX!
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 21, 2021, 02:27:53 pm
I got you, iguana. MiX is being very town MiX!

Lol Didds. I don't even know what you're trying to do here.

I've mentioned you're town right? Didds' town.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Swowl on September 21, 2021, 02:36:02 pm
Alternatively, they were both town so scum didn't bother to show up at EOD.

What is your logic there?
Exile is better than not if they are both town right?

They would have assumed that town would make sure an exile went through. Jimmmmm was the only one with an inconvenient time zone, I think. I'm not saying I think this is what happened. I'm saying it is just as likely as your theory.

Loath though I am to admit it, I am agreeing with Jimmmmm here. Your conclusion that one of them has to be scum is flimsy at best, and then you say there are only two choices, math and joth.

The no exile is also complicated by the fact that MiX says he was policy not-voting math because of all the early exiles math has had.

I am absolutely not arguing with you on "flimsy". It is just the best I have to go with.
LL did not really have any like relevant interaction day 1 from what I see, so trying to potentially partner search or something just keeps bringing me back to a base of who I think is likely skum. And because Day 1 is all I have to go on, I think it is one of Joth or Math.
Like I am not saying that there is not anyone else that I would not vote for, I just think by comparison that Math/Joth is the best and/or most informative pool.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Swowl on September 21, 2021, 02:43:12 pm
Ok, I see you say that you had more townreads on the Joth wagon than the Math wagon.

@Swowl Who was scummy on the Math wagon and who was towny on the Joth wagon that made you pick Joth over Math EoD1?

I have already mentioned that WCD and MiX are my TRs on the Joth wagon.
I have already mentioned that I think Jimmm is town, from the Math wagon.
I have not mentioned that I think you are moderately skummy so far this game.

Those would be my big three.

ppe - tons of faust

Ok, I keep tripping over this and it's not because of OMGUS. I don't know if it really checks out.

TR on WCD - sure, whatever. She gets those.
TR on MiX????

And then you say you voted Joth over Math because I was voting Math and you don't trust me.

First of all, why? You ignored me yesterday for one.

Also, IIRC I was already voting Math when you first called Math scummy, so why didn't my scumminess enter into your calculus at the the time you first read him?

1. I would rather not go into why I think this is Town!MiX (that is not a crumb, it is reads based). But yeah... town mix.
2. My skummy read on you, which I did make sure to put "moderately" in front of, is also based on more gut than anything else.
3. I don't get your IIRC comment. You were voting Math. I thought you were kinda acting skummy. That deterred me from voting Math.

If it helps, the town reads on MiX and WCD weighed far heavier into my decision then my skum reads in the other direction.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 21, 2021, 02:57:29 pm
Iguana, I understand you can't fathom having a townread on me, but others can.

It's not that no one could TR you but I do want to know where he's coming from on said town read
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 21, 2021, 03:09:14 pm
I got you, iguana. MiX is being very town MiX!

As someone whose never had to actually read MiX before, any advice? Because I'm having a hard time
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 21, 2021, 03:19:59 pm
This is literally town!math being the D1 exile.

And now you vote Math. What changed your mind?
It must needs be remarked that MiX has rudely ignored this question.

I think he's scummy.

I actually had time to reread him at night.

How is it that you make up your mind so quickly? Don't you care what other people say on day 2??

Night time is 2 days, I think it's reasonable to get a read like "I think he's scummy".

Yes I care about what people say, which is why I haven't explained why I scumread him.

I just think it is suspicious to start right away with a vote. But I guess it can be a difference of playstyle. The only day where I usually vote early is D1 (out of necessity.) I try to delay voting D2 until at the very least everyone has posted because there can always be results and results can inform things. A vote is for an exile. So why would you want to push an exile before you have all the possible relevant information?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 21, 2021, 03:21:10 pm
I just think it is suspicious to start right away with a vote. But I guess it can be a difference of playstyle. The only day where I usually vote early is D1 (out of necessity.) I try to delay voting D2 until at the very least everyone has posted because there can always be results and results can inform things. A vote is for an exile. So why would you want to push an exile before you have all the possible relevant information?

Because I won't ever have all the relevant information. I want to create more of it, and voting helps with that.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 21, 2021, 03:26:19 pm
Ok, I see you say that you had more townreads on the Joth wagon than the Math wagon.

@Swowl Who was scummy on the Math wagon and who was towny on the Joth wagon that made you pick Joth over Math EoD1?

I have already mentioned that WCD and MiX are my TRs on the Joth wagon.
I have already mentioned that I think Jimmm is town, from the Math wagon.
I have not mentioned that I think you are moderately skummy so far this game.

Those would be my big three.

ppe - tons of faust

Ok, I keep tripping over this and it's not because of OMGUS. I don't know if it really checks out.

TR on WCD - sure, whatever. She gets those.
TR on MiX????

And then you say you voted Joth over Math because I was voting Math and you don't trust me.

First of all, why? You ignored me yesterday for one.

Also, IIRC I was already voting Math when you first called Math scummy, so why didn't my scumminess enter into your calculus at the the time you first read him?

1. I would rather not go into why I think this is Town!MiX (that is not a crumb, it is reads based). But yeah... town mix.
2. My skummy read on you, which I did make sure to put "moderately" in front of, is also based on more gut than anything else.
3. I don't get your IIRC comment. You were voting Math. I thought you were kinda acting skummy. That deterred me from voting Math.

If it helps, the town reads on MiX and WCD weighed far heavier into my decision then my skum reads in the other direction.

The point is, at one point you said Math was your second top scumread after EFHW. At that point, the Math wagon was pretty much the same then as it was later on when you came in and voted your too-sKummy-to-b-sKum read instead. The only difference on the Math wagon was that Jim joined it, who you are saying was your town read on the Math wagon. Did you not take who was voting Math into consideration when you initially read Math as sKum?

I guess if you are saying that the MiX/WCD votes had more to do with it, I can somewhat see your logic. But then why not say, I voted there because I was sheeping my TRs? Instead you make it about which wagon is sKummier.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 21, 2021, 03:27:28 pm
I just think it is suspicious to start right away with a vote. But I guess it can be a difference of playstyle. The only day where I usually vote early is D1 (out of necessity.) I try to delay voting D2 until at the very least everyone has posted because there can always be results and results can inform things. A vote is for an exile. So why would you want to push an exile before you have all the possible relevant information?

Because I won't ever have all the relevant information. I want to create more of it, and voting helps with that.

Ok, well, yesterday you thought Math was town and I thought you were wrong. Today, I still think you are wrong. Or, maybe you are scum.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on September 21, 2021, 03:28:42 pm
I just think it is suspicious to start right away with a vote. But I guess it can be a difference of playstyle. The only day where I usually vote early is D1 (out of necessity.) I try to delay voting D2 until at the very least everyone has posted because there can always be results and results can inform things. A vote is for an exile. So why would you want to push an exile before you have all the possible relevant information?

Because I won't ever have all the relevant information. I want to create more of it, and voting helps with that.

Ok, well, yesterday you thought Math was town and I thought you were wrong. Today, I still think you are wrong. Or, maybe you are scum.

What have we learned about thinking each other's wrong?

That's right. Everyone is wrong. So what does that matter?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 21, 2021, 03:31:23 pm
I just think it is suspicious to start right away with a vote. But I guess it can be a difference of playstyle. The only day where I usually vote early is D1 (out of necessity.) I try to delay voting D2 until at the very least everyone has posted because there can always be results and results can inform things. A vote is for an exile. So why would you want to push an exile before you have all the possible relevant information?

Because I won't ever have all the relevant information. I want to create more of it, and voting helps with that.

Ok, well, yesterday you thought Math was town and I thought you were wrong. Today, I still think you are wrong. Or, maybe you are scum.

What have we learned about thinking each other's wrong?

That's right. Everyone is wrong. So what does that matter?

Well, exactly one of us is wrong about Math. More later.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 21, 2021, 04:09:37 pm
Sorry, falling behind. Will catch up tomorrow, been a couple crazy days
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 21, 2021, 05:41:17 pm
I got you, iguana. MiX is being very town MiX!

Lol Didds. I don't even know what you're trying to do here.

I've mentioned you're town right? Didds' town.

Well, he said he followed me to Joth. I feel like Iím vibing with iguanaÖ. So he should get right on this. Youíre being way to restrained to be scum.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 21, 2021, 05:42:19 pm
If we knew Joth's alignment right now, this whole day could be very different and we would know whether to be looking at the people who were partnery with him or the people who drove his exile.

On the other hand, I'm alive right now which is nice.

We do so enjoy you
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 21, 2021, 05:52:09 pm
I got you, iguana. MiX is being very town MiX!

As someone whose never had to actually read MiX before, any advice? Because I'm having a hard time

So, my impression is that town MiX is very analytical and will push the game forward. Heíll do things to draw out players would are chilling on the side. Heís pretty much the a one man anti-stall. That is what Iím attributing the early vote to. Plus, I think itís very likely that he did arrive at a conclusion during N1 because he is a re-reader. I think if he read the move as a way to jump start the day, he was successful.

Scum mix flies around a lot and votes erratically. Sometimes heíll get aggro and tussle with someone else without any real point other than clouding the thread. With only a couple of exceptions, Iíve been able to tell when heís been ďoffĒ.

A mix of either alignment makes all kinds of declarations ďx is town!Ē And will declare himself an IC at the smallest provocation. In our very first game together he was bossing me around and it REALLY upset me. Now I see it as bluster.

In the game I find him calm and methodical. For me, that is town mix.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 21, 2021, 05:53:33 pm
I just think it is suspicious to start right away with a vote. But I guess it can be a difference of playstyle. The only day where I usually vote early is D1 (out of necessity.) I try to delay voting D2 until at the very least everyone has posted because there can always be results and results can inform things. A vote is for an exile. So why would you want to push an exile before you have all the possible relevant information?

Because I won't ever have all the relevant information. I want to create more of it, and voting helps with that.

I think another point iguana, is that heís not pushing for an exile. Heís voting for someone. I donít think those are the same thing.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 21, 2021, 05:54:53 pm
A mix of either alignment makes all kinds of declarations ďx is town!Ē And will declare himself an IC at the smallest provocation. In our very first game together he was bossing me around and it REALLY upset me. Now I see it as bluster.

Was our first game the SK game? That's a rough introduction to me, yeah.

I just think it is suspicious to start right away with a vote. But I guess it can be a difference of playstyle. The only day where I usually vote early is D1 (out of necessity.) I try to delay voting D2 until at the very least everyone has posted because there can always be results and results can inform things. A vote is for an exile. So why would you want to push an exile before you have all the possible relevant information?

Because I won't ever have all the relevant information. I want to create more of it, and voting helps with that.

I think another point iguana, is that heís not pushing for an exile. Heís voting for someone. I donít think those are the same thing.

Well...hmm...I'm okay with quickexiling math. Last time that happened I shot the hammering scum.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 21, 2021, 06:08:22 pm
A mix of either alignment makes all kinds of declarations ďx is town!Ē And will declare himself an IC at the smallest provocation. In our very first game together he was bossing me around and it REALLY upset me. Now I see it as bluster.

Was our first game the SK game? That's a rough introduction to me, yeah.

Yeah, deep space nine. I do t think I came around on you until after you said you felt bad for vengekilling me in whatever game that was!


I just think it is suspicious to start right away with a vote. But I guess it can be a difference of playstyle. The only day where I usually vote early is D1 (out of necessity.) I try to delay voting D2 until at the very least everyone has posted because there can always be results and results can inform things. A vote is for an exile. So why would you want to push an exile before you have all the possible relevant information?

Because I won't ever have all the relevant information. I want to create more of it, and voting helps with that.

I think another point iguana, is that heís not pushing for an exile. Heís voting for someone. I donít think those are the same thing.

Well...hmm...I'm okay with quickexiling math. Last time that happened I shot the hammering scum.
[/quote]
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 21, 2021, 06:37:54 pm
A mix of either alignment makes all kinds of declarations ďx is town!Ē And will declare himself an IC at the smallest provocation. In our very first game together he was bossing me around and it REALLY upset me. Now I see it as bluster.

Was our first game the SK game? That's a rough introduction to me, yeah.

Yeah, deep space nine. I do t think I came around on you until after you said you felt bad for vengekilling me in whatever game that was!

Oh, good times. I guess I still owe Jimmmmm a good old fashioned exile for that game.


I was thinking of rereading stuff, but I'm liking the thread right now, gonna let it marinate for a bit while e and a bunch of other people settle in.

Hmm, I really should've voted math yesterday, huh, there's not much to do today. Oh well, hindsight says it didn't matter anyway  8)
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 21, 2021, 06:42:58 pm
I love the imagery of letting a game marinate
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Swowl on September 21, 2021, 07:00:05 pm
*snip*

I guess if you are saying that the MiX/WCD votes had more to do with it, I can somewhat see your logic. But then why not say, I voted there because I was sheeping my TRs? Instead you make it about which wagon is sKummier.

What? That is literally exactly the language I when first asked about all this.

Pretty much the people on the wagons. I was/am way more suspicious of the people on Math than I was on Joth. I wanted an exile to happen so I needed to move from efoo. So I sheeped the one with more of my TRs
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 21, 2021, 08:13:37 pm
*snip*

I guess if you are saying that the MiX/WCD votes had more to do with it, I can somewhat see your logic. But then why not say, I voted there because I was sheeping my TRs? Instead you make it about which wagon is sKummier.

What? That is literally exactly the language I when first asked about all this.

Pretty much the people on the wagons. I was/am way more suspicious of the people on Math than I was on Joth. I wanted an exile to happen so I needed to move from efoo. So I sheeped the one with more of my TRs

Okay, you are right, I'm sorry. I was conflating something you said yesterday with something you said today. I was thinking EoD1 you called the Math wagon scummy but I looked back and saw you didn't
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 21, 2021, 08:14:30 pm
Vote: faust
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 21, 2021, 08:15:13 pm
When you look for scum and can't find them, it's because Faust is scum.

Or gkrieg.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 21, 2021, 08:23:59 pm
Oh, good times. I guess I still owe Jimmmmm a good old fashioned exile for that game.

What did I do??
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 21, 2021, 08:27:24 pm
Still need to catch up. Weíll probably do it tomorrow.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 21, 2021, 09:57:35 pm
Oh, good times. I guess I still owe Jimmmmm a good old fashioned exile for that game.

What did I do??

MiX has an encyclopedic memory. This is almost two years ago (when he vengekilled me instead of scum!you). Prepare to suffer his wrathÖone dayÖ

I don't have words for this game, so I'm gonna choose to say "screw Jimmmmm for not being active D1 enough for me to vig him" and...and yeah.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 21, 2021, 10:11:40 pm
Apparently not quite encyclopedic. In DS9 (Redux) I was lurky Town and died Night 1.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mathdude on September 21, 2021, 10:30:23 pm
Vote: faust
When you look for scum and can't find them, it's because Faust is scum.

Or gkrieg.

You're really grasping at straws, aren't you? Just trying to see who will bite and where. You're either super helpful and going to stumble on something good, or you're scum trying to mislead us. I don't like you sheeping my vote.

unvote
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 21, 2021, 10:54:14 pm
Also, have to say this.

I've never seen someone use a spreadsheet before. It made me think of of when Teproc dumped his entire QT into the thread and made no QT quoting a rule lol. Jim is playing next level here.

You should see my actual spreadsheet.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 21, 2021, 11:00:25 pm
Jimmmmm's...posts D2. Like, all of them. The way he was arguing about the wagon analysis felt like he was shooting down any meaningful discussion.

I feel like this is the opposite of what I was doing. Like, "Give me something meaningful about this assumption." And surely questioning a change in someone's read is always a discussion worth having.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 22, 2021, 12:10:34 am
Vote: faust
When you look for scum and can't find them, it's because Faust is scum.

Or gkrieg.

You're really grasping at straws, aren't you? Just trying to see who will bite and where. You're either super helpful and going to stumble on something good, or you're scum trying to mislead us. I don't like you sheeping my vote.

unvote

It doesn't have to be both! Trust me, I can be town and also be super detrimental. That is most likely the case here.

At any rate, I wasn't sheeping you, and actually I had no idea you were even voting faust.

I really honestly believe that you can't write a good case against faust. He has played in near every game I've played in since 2015, and I don't think I've ever been able to read him accurately. Mostly I find him to be towny even when he is scum. Last game I trusted that read and lost.

This game, I am not feeling the case against Jim at all. EFHW seemed scummy at first but has largely come back from that. I also have reasons to believe that you (Math) are town. I'm least sure about Joth, but a large part of that is just PoE from my other townreads.

So those are the major wagons that we've had, and I don't feel great about any of them. So it begs the question, if all of those people are town (possible), who is scum? Probably someone who is playing quite well. Hence, the vote on faust, who I think always plays well as scum.

You can call that grasping at straws if you want. But I have certainly put thought into it.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Swowl on September 22, 2021, 12:25:05 am
Vote: faust
When you look for scum and can't find them, it's because Faust is scum.

Or gkrieg.

You're really grasping at straws, aren't you? Just trying to see who will bite and where. You're either super helpful and going to stumble on something good, or you're scum trying to mislead us. I don't like you sheeping my vote.

unvote

so you tried to see who would bite. then someone bit. and then you outted your plan and bailed.
How does that make sense?
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on September 22, 2021, 12:52:06 am
When you look for scum and can't find them, it's because Faust is scum.

Or gkrieg.
There isn't a lot I can do about that, is there?

I think you may have been looking for scum in the wrong places. And I guess - you are continuing to do so.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 22, 2021, 01:00:41 am
No, I don't think there is a lot you can do about being scum.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 22, 2021, 03:36:11 am
No, I don't think there is a lot you can do about being scum.

When you can't find scum, look at lurkers. Faust is not one of them this game.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 22, 2021, 05:38:58 am
Apparently not quite encyclopedic. In DS9 (Redux) I was lurky Town and died Night 1.

What does that have to do with anything? That was before the venge game.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on September 22, 2021, 05:49:12 am
DS9 was the game Didds mentioned, but I guess you were referring to "whatever game that was". My bad.
Title: Re: M135: Among Us Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: MiX on September 22, 2021, 05:51:04 am