Disclaimer:Some of the card aren’t perfectly worded; some of my message will not be worded too, if you you want to show me where I’ll won’t take it personally (On the contrary, I would prefer to correct a mistake as soon as possible).
Special Rules and clarification.There isn’t any new type of cards, tokens or other special keyword in this expansion but there is still some additional rules when you play with it and I strongly advice you to juge the card with these in mind:
The cards:
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Citadel Have been remove from this set. It will maybe be reintroduce later in an other form.
Posted the: 25 April 2021; removed the 27 April. The owner was: Shael (rip).
Original though: It’s just Lost City; but you opponents get nothing and it have an alternate cost. It’s one of my first P-cost card and I don’t have a lot to say about it: it’s a good tool for engine, like a lot of P-cost card in the original game.
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I’ve made two other cards for this expansion:
An alternate version of stargazing (because both art were good so I’ll let people choose their favorite). And an sort of Black market event (since black market is a promo concept, it feel normal that ‘Exotic find’ is in «other»).
Special Thanks
Arboretum is too cheap, too expensive and too strong at the same time. This seems weird at first glance, but the card is a Villager-Lab plus Baker. That is a combination of two $5s and then some.
Compare it to Grand Market which is a $5 plus a $4.
But a price of $7 is arguably too high for a pure vanilla card. Sure, there is nothing inherently mechanically wrong with it but if you take a look at Grand Market it becomes obvious. Grand Market without the Buy restriction could be a $7 or $8 or $9 but at $7 it is too cheap for what it does and at $8 it directly competes with Province. People would still buy it for $8 but the twist of the official card leads to far more interesting play (you gotta thin or sift, once you did you can get the GMs relatively cheap at $6).
So yeah, that cards needs a twist of some kind to be worthwhile.
Mechanical soundness is easy to evaluate, especially with pure vanillas. But you seem to have missed the issue of high cost / high power cards that I tried to point out. There is a reason that all the official $7s+ (except for Platinum) do something non-vanilla-ish.I think I've understand where we disagree: for me the vanilla bonus are just a "graphic" feature so since ther is no cards that literraly play on "vanilla bonuses" I consider that there is no difference between Arboretum and a 7-cost "Draw two card. Gain a coin token and a villager token", because vanilla bonuses is just a trick to gain card space and make them clearer.
Okay the vanilla card problem is this: vanilla cards limit what other cards you can make, without having two similar cards such that one is too obviously better than the other. [...]this is why I try to make vanilla cards where there isn't already a lot of cards (in extremly hight/low cost or with P-cost)
Same with Citadel. It obviously cannot cost $4P because the digging of Golem is stronger than drawing (this is controversial, Golem frequently digs for nothing). It can cost $3 but I have a hunch that it is then slightly better than Alchemist. Again, the card is mechanically totally sound but slightly too strong and missing some kind of twist to make it interesting and different enough from the Lost City and Lab variants that Alchemy features.
And this is where we can talk about Citadel:There is no vanilla Lost City for a very good reason: that card is a powerhouse so it needs some twist. Golem, Lost City and Herald are all variants of that hypothetical vanilla.
In fact; my though about Alchemist comparaison is quite clear: 'Alchemist vs Citadel debate' is nearly the same as a theorical 'lost city vs laboartory debate'.
The quesion is: why this debate don't exist?
And the answer seem simple to me: both cards don't do the same thing and none of them are strictly better than the other.
Since I'm not as sure about the power of this card; I've post our discution on discord (here) (https://discord.com/channels/212660788786102272/449166977991180299/836517632793641000). In subtance; the card was consider as closer than alchemist that I though...And this is where we can talk about Citadel:There is no vanilla Lost City for a very good reason: that card is a powerhouse so it needs some twist. Golem, Lost City and Herald are all variants of that hypothetical vanilla.
In fact; my though about Alchemist comparaison is quite clear: 'Alchemist vs Citadel debate' is nearly the same as a theorical 'lost city vs laboartory debate'.
The quesion is: why this debate don't exist?
And the answer seem simple to me: both cards don't do the same thing and none of them are strictly better than the other.
You could argue that having a Potion cost is enough of a twist but I disagree. That your card is likely slightly stronger than Alchemist is a secondary issue.
Me upon seeing this thread (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKSk_Q1ADxA)Ho no... The meme technic! He will gain so much respect! HaaAaAA!
General rule of thumb is that you should use on-gain over on-buy unless you have to use on-buy for some reasonSince it don't change the balance of the card to deeply, I have no reason to don't accept it: this rules seem to avoid confusion by standardizing the cards effect.
These are some good cards. I like Cauldron, Shelves, Decoration, Forest, Ore, Shelves, Copy, Clock Tower, Fertilizer, and Fountain of Youth and plan to include them in the alchemy set i am developing.
Floating Island, at the current cost of $4P, is a better price than Province per Victory gained. If you increased the price by $1 or (preferable) devalued the victory by 1, it would still be better than a Duchy, but less contentious against Province.
Has any simulation been done to demonstrate that Enchanted Woods is fine at any price point? My evaluation, considering a game that includes Estate, Duchy, and Province, would indicate the best price is the same as Duchy, but in general should be more than Estate and less than Province.
I'm not sure about Essence. It seams a little expensive at P. Maybe a +Buy could make it worth the price.
Have you considered any Ways? I made four.