Dominion Strategy Forum

Dominion => Variants and Fan Cards => Topic started by: Aquila on September 22, 2020, 02:22:37 am

Title: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Aquila on September 22, 2020, 02:22:37 am
This was the second of a series of auxiliary Weekly Design Contests, each with the aim of adding a card to the official expansions. The current contest series is fan mechanics, here. (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20616.msg861610#msg861610)

Winners:

Base set
(https://s12.directupload.net/images/200922/24ix4rxc.png) by gambit05

Intrigue
Quote
Heiress - $5
Action
+2 Cards
You may reveal a Victory card from your hand. If it is an...
Estate, +1 Buy, +$2.
Duchy, gain a Gold.
Province, +2 Actions.
Action card, play it.
by xen3k

Seaside
(https://i.ibb.co/vkMHjR2/Port-Inspector.jpg) by aladdinstardust

Alchemy
(https://i.ibb.co/DfVkYhb/Astrologer.png) by gambit05

Prosperity
(https://i.ibb.co/rcSMJMG/Royal-Escort.png) by silverspawn

Cornucopia
(https://i.imgur.com/u9IOnOM.png) by segura

Dark Ages
(https://i.ibb.co/8gfhnKb/crusade.png) by silverspawn

Guilds
(https://i.ibb.co/VN7NrSY/image.png) by grep

Hinterlands
(https://i.postimg.cc/3RWg5Mcd/Missionary-V1-EN.png) by X-tra

Adventures
(https://i.imgur.com/jrgFfva.png) by grrgrrgrr

Empires
(https://i.ibb.co/0rG3bH1/Gallery.png) by gambit05

Nocturne
(https://i.imgur.com/83XxfkK.png) (https://i.imgur.com/UCJkmya.png) by Timinou

Renaissance
(https://i.imgur.com/si3OTWK.jpg) by grrgrrgrr

Menagerie
(https://i.imgur.com/5TqibZs.png) by Timinou

Promo
(https://i.postimg.cc/52h287B3/01-Dragons.png)               (https://i.postimg.cc/76DPW5QJ/02-White-Dragon.png) (https://i.postimg.cc/Xq1VqQN9/03-Orange-Dragon.png) (https://i.postimg.cc/52H6y04q/Blue-Dragon-v2.png) (https://i.postimg.cc/4d54kXrL/05-Green-Dragon.png) by X-tra



Contest #1: Base Set

I have no other requirements here. Make a card that adds to the base set whilst keeping to its themes: simple to understand, no extra mechanics, maybe introduces a basic play aspect of the game.

Judging: 28th September 3:00pm forum time
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: gambit05 on September 22, 2020, 06:29:16 am
My submission:

(https://s12.directupload.net/images/200922/24ix4rxc.png)

Carpenter
$3 – Action
Quote
+2 Cards
+1 Buy
          Look at the top card of your           
deck. You may discard it.

- An extra $3 cost card gives more variability in early turns.
- A cheap card with +Buy is missing in the base set.
- There are already lots of can-trips in the set, especially cards with a cost of $3.
- Carpenter has direct synergy/anti-synergy with Harbinger, Vassal, Sentry, Artisan an mild interaction with lots of other cards.
- It helps players to learn that a top-decked Copper usually isn’t optimal.
- It helps players to learn the difference between drawing 2 and 3 cards (e.g. Smithy, Council Room); and between terminal vs
  non-terminal cards (e.g. Laboratory). 
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: D782802859 on September 22, 2020, 06:33:40 am
(https://i.imgur.com/fWdv7ex.png?1)

Just moving my entry from the other thread for consistency.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Jonatan Djurachkovitch on September 22, 2020, 08:15:54 am
Here's my submission. I don't know if it should have +1 Action.
(https://i.imgur.com/DkWGaFs.png)
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Jonatan Djurachkovitch on September 22, 2020, 08:19:26 am
[Locksmith]
I think that it should say "+1 Card per other differently named Action card you have in play"
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: LastFootnote on September 22, 2020, 09:17:02 am
(https://i.imgur.com/fWdv7ex.png?1)

Just moving my entry from the other thread for consistency.

Does this count other copies of Locksmith?
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Jack Rudd on September 22, 2020, 10:17:52 am
Carpenter looks excellent; a solid mix of abilities and a good cost for it.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: spineflu on September 22, 2020, 10:25:56 am
(https://i.imgur.com/oUNruuj.png)
Quote
Repast • $4 • Action
Trash this. If you did,
+2 Cards
+1 Buy
+$2

Feast variation. Teaches tempo for new players, doesn't double with Throne Rooms, doesn't proc with command cards. Also, cheap buy, which, as gambit05 pointed out, is now missing in the base set.

Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Xen3k on September 22, 2020, 07:59:26 pm
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50689532476_b885a7e968_b.jpg)

Quote
Lumber - $2
Treasure
$1
+1 Buy
When you play this, you may discard a Victory card for +$1.

Adds a treasure to the base set as well as a cheap +buy. It may be too cheap at $2, but I don't think allowing you to use a VP card as a copper is too powerful
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Fly-Eagles-Fly on September 23, 2020, 01:19:04 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/c85UGBU.jpg)
Terminal sifter with +buy
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: LibraryAdventurer on September 23, 2020, 06:48:09 pm
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/d/d6/Woodcutter.jpg/200px-Woodcutter.jpg)
Such a simple idea, you'd think Donald would've thought of it...
(needs better art though)
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: silverspawn on September 24, 2020, 05:28:45 am
(https://i.ibb.co/31Lpcph/Lumber-Mill.png)

In case anyone is wondering, I'm not trying to joke. No-one said a submission can't be strictly better than a removed card, and I genuinely think this is a perfectly fine vanilla effect for a card costing 3$.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: NoMoreFun on September 24, 2020, 06:53:28 pm
Healer
Action - $2
+$1
+1 Buy
You may trash a card from your hand. If it's a Curse, +$3.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: LastFootnote on September 25, 2020, 12:15:32 am
(http://imgur.com/HOphueq.png)

Chancellor: Action, $3
+1 Buy
+$2
You may put your deck into your discard pile.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: LittleFish on September 25, 2020, 12:25:45 am
Anchorite: Action $3
If this is your only card in play, +2 Cards +1 action +$1
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: segura on September 25, 2020, 07:10:02 am
Seems too harsh / swingy, i.e. part of the card (e.g. the draw) should trigger even when it is not the only card in play.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: LordBaphomet on September 25, 2020, 10:26:40 am
Silversmith: gets more non-attack player interaction and also teaches newer players of how bad silver can be. Everyone will want free silver, then realise it clogs up their engine. Also gets a terminal buy in there too.
(https://i.imgur.com/utWkMwj.png)
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: pubby on September 26, 2020, 03:35:20 pm
Gentleman - Action - $2
Reveal a card from your hand and put it on top of your deck. If it's an
Action: +3 Actions
Treasure: +$3
Victory: +3 Buys
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: GendoIkari on September 26, 2020, 06:30:14 pm
(http://imgur.com/HOphueq)

Chancellor: Action, $3
+1 Buy
+$2
You may put your deck into your discard pile.

Messenger still exists in this world, right?
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: LastFootnote on September 26, 2020, 09:55:54 pm
(http://imgur.com/HOphueq)

Chancellor: Action, $3
+1 Buy
+$2
You may put your deck into your discard pile.

Messenger still exists in this world, right?

Yes, but it has a "bonus".

EDIT: For what it's worth, if I thought this ever had a chance of getting printed, I never would have suggested the "you may put your deck into your discard pile" clause on Messenger. Honestly I probably wouldn't suggest it these days anyway. Makes the card too complex.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: grrgrrgrr on September 27, 2020, 04:48:20 am
(https://i.imgur.com/cbz6qUs.png)

This card is meant to discourage the spamming of Village and Silver.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Aquila on September 27, 2020, 03:01:24 pm
24 hours left
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: LittleFish on September 27, 2020, 03:45:37 pm
Anchorite: Action $3
If this is your only card in play, +2 Cards +1 action +$1

Edit:
Anchorite: Action $4
+2 Cards
If this is your only card in play, +1 action +$2
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: LordBaphomet on September 27, 2020, 09:55:03 pm
Edit to silversmith to make it less like council room:

Silversmith - Action - $3
+1 Buy
+$1
You may trash a silver from your hand for +$3
Each player (including you) may gain a silver.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Aquila on September 28, 2020, 04:42:51 pm
Contest #1 results

It's been nice to see there's some more interest in this format, with 13 entries. Before we start, straight away we can talk about Woodcutter, as the vast majority of entries are cheap +buys. Not a bad move, we quite like +buys in moderation. These are Donald's words:
Quote from: Donald X in the Secret History of the Dominion 2nd Editions
Woodcutter: Woodcutter is fine, it's totally fine. It's just, the main set had six vanilla cards, and did it need six? Cards that do things are more interesting. I felt like five would be enough. The card to take out wanted to be one of the +Buy cards, since I thought having three of those was better than having four (even if all three cost $5, which is what happened). Market is way more beloved so Woodcutter was the card to cut.
So it's absolutely fine. If a second base set were to exist, Woodcutter could go in it. If fans want to add it to their 2nd edition base set, no problem. It might just be a bit boring for some, so with all these cheap +buy entries I've made interestingness quite an important factor; would you choose them over Woodcutter? (You wouldn't have both.)
So by default, those I rate higher are going to be ranked better than LibraryAdventurer's entry :P.

Quote
Locksmith (D782802859)
Action, $5 cost.
+1 Card for each other differently named Action card you have in play.
It feels nice to power this up, and the cards are in the base set to make it happen (the several cantrips, festival, throne room). There's a real newbie trap in collecting all the Actions of the kingdom when often that's wrong, but that's a nice lesson to learn here. It feels similar to Library however, in being draw you want to set up nicely; Library also has a backup plan for when it's drawn in a bad hand, you can skip the Actions, whereas this can really fail. If you don't have many different Actions in hand, then you need draw to get them, awkward if Locksmith is (part of) your draw.

Quote
Carpenter (gambit05)
Action, $3 cost.
+2 Cards
+1 Buy
Look at the top card of your deck; you may discard it.
Put a +buy on a draw card and you have a valuable engine piece; newer players can learn this as they see how few +buy cards Dominion has. This is quite strong with Village, you get all your engine needs in 2 cheap cards and assemble it quickly, but you'd still need other things to get it up to winning speed most of the time. It is interesting with its Vassal synergy and general cycling, teaching its importance. Nice one.

Quote
Vein (Jonatan Durakhovitch)
Action, $4 cost.
+1 Action
You may discard a Treasure to gain a Gold.
The base Treasures are a big part of the base set to be sure. Gardens quite like this too, and it's an interesting matchup to Bandit. Chapel/vein is a very potent opening, but that's Chapel being Chapel. Overall it looks like you want to start getting your deck established, as it's not the best builder, then get this to patch up economy. So it's simple and teaches a few things. It's good.

Quote
Repast (spineflu)
Action, $4 cost.
Trash this. If you did, +2 Cards, +1 Buy and + $2.
The obvious thing to do here is compare this payload to gain a $5. It's going to be similar to Feast as an opener, but this is more interesting than it later in helping to set up a mega turn, and it's a nicer pickup with Workshop. If the vanilla were an Action in itself it would probably be worth $5.5 or $6, so about right. Yes, this is quite nice, and the base set lacks a one-shot yet it's a simple premise.

Quote
Lumber (xen3k)
Treasure, $2 cost.
$1
+1 Buy
When you play this, you may discard a Victory card for + $1.
The +buy is the big attraction here, over Silver. It also introduces kingdom Treasures, can be good for Mine to upgrade a Copper into once or twice, and sometimes Bandit steals one of your buys away, which can hurt. It's alright, but not that exciting.

Quote
Well (Fly-Eagles-Fly)
Action, $3 cost.
+3 Cards
+1 Buy
Discard 2 cards.
Well well well, which of this or Carpenter is the better card? They're very similar and teach the same thing about +buys. This doesn't increase hand size though, so it generally likes a greater money density for its +buy. It's pretty great at making Gardens decks more consistent, but otherwise I'd say Carpenter has the edge in the modern engine meta and feels a bit more interesting. This isn't bad though.

Quote
Lumber Mill (silverspawn)
Action, $3 cost.
+2 Buys
+ $2
Sure, this could exist fine, 1 extra buy won't increase the cost that much. It has an emphatic function. Is it interesting? For Gardens it's cool, otherwise it's very much like Woodcutter. You can use this, you may as well have it over Woodcutter for a little more spice, but it's still not that compelling.

Quote
Healer (NoMoreFun)
Action, $2 cost.
+1 Buy
+ $1
You may trash a card from your hand. If it's a Curse, + $3.
Putting a +buy on an optional trash card makes for a valuable engine piece. There's also a funny trick that may take a while for some beginners to twig: buy Curses to trash later. Not that they'll carry that lesson on to later expansions. There's countering Witch as well of course. Does the base set need more trashing? It's rather concentrated onto 2 cards (and Moneylender, Remodel sometimes), so probably. Nice one.

Quote
Chancellor (LastFootnote)
Action, $3 cost.
+1 Buy
+ $2
You may put your deck into your discard pile.
It would probably have made a lot of sense to fuse the two $3 terminal Silvers into one card in the first place. But now there's a fair bit of top-of-deck synergy in 2E, is the Chancellor effect such a good fit? As in 1E, it's rarely useful. The card overall is quite nice - we know that from Messenger - and the vanilla makes sense with deck into discard to add more good stuff to a new shuffle. So like Lumber Mill, you may as well use this over Woodcutter and I would say over Lumber Mill itself, but it's still not adding a lot more.

Quote
Anchorite (LittleFish)
Action, $4 cost.
+2 Cards
If this is your only card in play, +1 Action and + $2.
Going mid to late game this might be interesting, how many of these do you put in your deck to improve the chances of proccing it, can you make use of several Moats to draw the rest of your deck? But as an opener, this looks rather automatic and probably explains why Donald hasn't made a card following this premise.

Quote
Silversmith (LordBaphomet)
Action, $3 cost.
+1 Buy
 + $1
You may trash a Silver from your hand for + $3. Each player (including you) may gain a Silver.
Difficult to tell if + $3 is enough of a bonus; you're only getting $1 more, so just the same as Woodcutter, yet if it were too high it could be centralising, everyone leeching on each other's Silversmiths for food. Perhaps a bit less interesting than the 4 Cards variant you had before (Council Room was a fair point), and as is I'd say it's on the weak side.

Quote
Gentleman (pubby)
Action, $2 cost.
Reveal a card from your hand and put it onto your deck. If it's an…
Action, +3 Actions;
Treasure, + $3;
Victory, +3 Buys.
I'm not finding many good uses for this, only setting up Vassal. The Treasure option is worse than a terminal Silver in having to top-deck a Copper, and the Victory option is for when you've drawn your whole deck with $16+ and you can handle a weak next hand. So a rather narrow card that's not too interesting overall.

Quote
Saprophyte (grrgrrgrr)
Victory, $5 cost.
Worth 1VP per card in the largest group of identical $3-costs in another player's deck (if it's a tie, count any one).
The premise of a Victory card affected by another player's deck could be made to work, though it has the potential to be political in 3+ player games if the group is so inclined. This one can escalate into being better than Duchy very easily; one player only needs 4 or more Villages, Silvers or Vassals. It doesn't feel too good in the base set, where new players are trying to learn what makes a good deck; it's more like an Empires card in its competitiveness, skill and tracking opponents' decks. So: it might be an idea worth banking and tweaking, but it doesn't fit this contest too well imo.

Shortlist: Carpenter, Vein, Repast, Well, Healer

It's a very close call between 3, so I'll name 2 runners-up:

Runners-up: Healer by NoMoreFun, Repast by spineflu

Winner: Carpenter by gambit05

Healer could work nicely; I just thought buying your own Curses to trash was one of its neater traits, yet that doesn't suit the Base set too good. In Intrigue maybe. Repast almost won it, but reading Donald's thoughts on Woodcutter again made me think the Carpenter was a tiny bit more compelling.
Congrats gambit, the reins are in your hands!
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Jonatan Djurachkovitch on September 29, 2020, 12:37:59 am
Well judged Aquila, and congrats to gambit05 for the win! Your card looked like a winner.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: gambit05 on September 29, 2020, 03:00:42 am
Thank you Aquila and congratulations to the runner-ups!

Before I start the next round I would like to give some insight about my thought process that lead to Carpenter. Most of the specifics I have listed in my original post.

In my playing group(s), when new Expansions (or sometimes fan-made cards) come in, before we play the recommended sets or even go full random, we pick 2-3 new cards and combine them with relatively simple cards from the Base set, and a round or two later also with Intrigue and Seaside cards. With this approach, the Base set is over-represented in such games, also simply because that box contains all the basic supply cards. During those games, we miss a cheap +Buy card more often than not.
I also thought about creating a card associated with Curses, because there are 30 in the box, but only one card that cares about them. I couldn’t find an elegant way, and rejected this possibility, but NoMoreFun has found one! Kudos for that! I also think that LastFootnote’s version would have been perfect for the official 1st Edition of the Base set, but unfortunately the real Chancellor and Woodcutter still exist and and some people are still playing with them.


Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: gambit05 on September 29, 2020, 03:15:53 am
Contest round #2: Intrigue

(No surprise here.)

The criteria: Intrigue is about cards giving choices, Victory cards that do something and cards interacting with Victory cards.

While I mentioned in the post above that my playing group(s) often miss a cheap +Buy card in the base set, we don’t have a problem like this with Intrigue. So, from my point of view with Intrigue it is rather about designing a card fitting to the above described mechanics than about what is missing. If you think differently, and you design a card that doesn’t follow one or more of the criteria for a typical Intrigue card as I have listed above, please specify the reasons why your card is different.

Obvious no-goes: Card types introduced later in the official sets (e.g. Durations); tokens and mats; a lot more, but the list would be too long.

My criteria for judging your card:
- The above mentioned mechanics.
- Not overly complicated wording if not really necessary (don’t forget, we are dealing with the very first expansion here).
- Balance. I do what I can to figure that out, but please don’t be annoyed if I misjudge this one. I often produce some bonkers
  cards myself.
- Flavor is a bonus. Does the name of the card fit to its mechanics? Does it fit to Intrigue?

Good luck and have fun!

Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: LibraryAdventurer on September 29, 2020, 06:12:18 am
Quote
Informer
$3 - Action
+$1.
Reveal the top four cards of your deck. Put all victory cards and any one other card into your hand. Put the rest back in any order.

yup. it's yet another Scout fix.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Jonatan Djurachkovitch on September 29, 2020, 08:47:17 am
Quote
Farmers Guild
$5 - Action-Victory
Discard up to 3 victory cards from your hand for +2 cards each. If any of them were Action cards, +1 Action.
-
2 VP
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: spineflu on September 29, 2020, 11:03:08 am
(https://trello-attachments.s3.amazonaws.com/5f734c336e86cd37f111e3d7/5f734c56c7b7c43a3def8b17/5bdf4a5674ee9ac8f54e494fa00cc2da/image.png)
Quote
Lumbermonger • $5 • Action - Treasure
If it's your Buy phase, +$2.

Otherwise, you may gain a card costing up to $4.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: LordBaphomet on September 29, 2020, 12:16:18 pm
My entry: Fief. No, not thief; fief. A fief owned a manor and land, which the farmers would work on. Collect more land and bring more fiefs under your rule to get better rewards.
(https://i.imgur.com/PT5IJLm.png)
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: LittleFish on September 29, 2020, 01:23:50 pm
Bluff Action (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/7/7d/Coin5.png/16px-Coin5.png)
You and the player to your left both name a card. If either of you believe the other does not have the card they named, you may call them on it. You call first if you both wish to call. If nobody calls, +2 if you named the higher costing card. If someone calls and someone lied about their card, the person who didn't lie gains a gold. If both lied, then both gain a copper onto their deck
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: gambit05 on September 29, 2020, 02:39:44 pm
Bluff Action (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/7/7d/Coin5.png/16px-Coin5.png)
You and the player to your left both name a card. If either of you believe the other does not have the card they named, you may call them on it. You call first if you both wish to call. If nobody calls, +2 if you named the higher costing card. If someone calls and someone lied about their card, the person who didn't lie gains a gold. If both lied, then both gain a copper onto their deck

Are you serious? I have put that text in the card image generator. It produces a wall of text of 11 lines in a very tiny font size. That would be way too much for any Dominion card, let alone one for Intrigue.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: LittleFish on September 29, 2020, 02:45:50 pm
Bluff Action (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/7/7d/Coin5.png/16px-Coin5.png)
You and the player to your left both name a card. If either of you believe the other does not have the card they named, you may call them on it. You call first if you both wish to call. If nobody calls, +2 if you named the higher costing card. If someone calls and someone lied about their card, the person who didn't lie gains a gold. If both lied, then both gain a copper onto their deck

Are you serious? I have put that text in the card image generator. It produces a wall of text of 11 lines in a very tiny font size. That would be way too much for any Dominion card, let alone one for Intrigue.
I'll move it to RCBI
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: silverspawn on September 29, 2020, 02:46:53 pm
To be fair, the German version of Noble Brigand may be longer.

Edit: yup. (https://www.poeppelkiste.de/rezensionen/2011/hinterland/edlerraeuber.gif)
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: gambit05 on September 29, 2020, 02:47:33 pm
(https://trello-attachments.s3.amazonaws.com/5f734c336e86cd37f111e3d7/5f734c56c7b7c43a3def8b17/5bdf4a5674ee9ac8f54e494fa00cc2da/image.png)
Quote
Lumbermonger • $5 • Action - Treasure
If it's your Buy phase, +$2.

Otherwise, you may gain a card costing up to $4.

I don't want to be a spoilsport, but I am afraid this is not a good choice for a typical Intrigue card. While an Action-Treasure card is certainly exciting, and Lumbermonger fulfills the criterion "different choices", it would be way ahead of its time. The first  official cards that allowed to be played in different phases were in quite late expansions (as far as I am aware of), e.g. Crown. While your card concept would easily fit there or in later expansions, I think it is not a good choice for Intrigue.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: gambit05 on September 29, 2020, 02:55:08 pm
To be fair, the German version of Noble Brigand may be longer.

Edit: yup. (https://www.poeppelkiste.de/rezensionen/2011/hinterland/edlerraeuber.gif)

(https://s12.directupload.net/images/200929/mxg9cz5m.png)(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/9/9f/Noble.Brigand.German.jpg)
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: silverspawn on September 29, 2020, 02:58:07 pm
The original version, however, was 10 lines plus the +1$ sign (as you can see in the link), which is longer than 10 lines without a +1$. The version I own also has 10 lines I believe. Apparently they cut it by 3 lines in a reprint.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: gambit05 on September 29, 2020, 03:04:58 pm
The original version, however, was 10 lines plus the +1$ sign (as you can see in the link), which is longer than 10 lines without a +1$. The version I own also has 10 lines I believe. Apparently they cut it by 3 lines in a reprint.

I know, the text of Noble Brigand is terribly long and there are a few more cards like that. Just imagine, translating Bluff into German. That would probably need an extra 3 lines or so. Anyway, it is way too much for an Intrigue card that wants to win in a contest.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Aquila on September 29, 2020, 03:53:11 pm
Quote
Impersonator - Action, $5 cost.
+ $1
Choose one: reveal the top 3 cards of your deck, set aside one of the Actions, discard the rest, then play the Action; or replay an Action card you've played this turn that's still in play.

I looked for things that were missing in the set, and didn't find any. Guess that's what happens when you make multiple choice cards. So I thought, if it's got everything in it and all in good balance, then an emulator would go in fine. This one has a 'choose one' mainly for functionality; if it appears early in the turn it can dig for an Action (a bit better than Peddler), or if later it can Scepter (similar to Throne Room with + $1).
There are combos I've seen with this. Secret Passage an Action to within range of the dig, or Replace gaining one. Digging or Scepter-ing Shanty Town or Diplomat can help them proc. Torturer chains with extra money.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: spineflu on September 29, 2020, 04:50:19 pm
(https://trello-attachments.s3.amazonaws.com/5f734c336e86cd37f111e3d7/5f734c56c7b7c43a3def8b17/5bdf4a5674ee9ac8f54e494fa00cc2da/image.png)
Quote
Lumbermonger • $5 • Action - Treasure
If it's your Buy phase, +$2.

Otherwise, you may gain a card costing up to $4.

I don't want to be a spoilsport, but I am afraid this is not a good choice for a typical Intrigue card. While an Action-Treasure card is certainly exciting, and Lumbermonger fulfills the criterion "different choices", it would be way ahead of its time. The first  official cards that allowed to be played in different phases were in quite late expansions (as far as I am aware of), e.g. Crown. While your card concept would easily fit there or in later expansions, I think it is not a good choice for Intrigue.

ok. judge it on those merits then. This is the color split missing in intrigue and i entered it on those grounds while fulfilling the rest of the criteria (choices, simplicity, etc). I'm very happy with it as my entry and think it fits the goals of the intrigue expansion while giving a small taste of what's to come in future expansions. Consider it a sui generis case like how Nomad Camp used to be the only thing that messed with the opening, or how masquerade is the only card that uses the pass mechanic.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: gambit05 on September 29, 2020, 05:24:07 pm
(https://trello-attachments.s3.amazonaws.com/5f734c336e86cd37f111e3d7/5f734c56c7b7c43a3def8b17/5bdf4a5674ee9ac8f54e494fa00cc2da/image.png)
Quote
Lumbermonger • $5 • Action - Treasure
If it's your Buy phase, +$2.

Otherwise, you may gain a card costing up to $4.

I don't want to be a spoilsport, but I am afraid this is not a good choice for a typical Intrigue card. While an Action-Treasure card is certainly exciting, and Lumbermonger fulfills the criterion "different choices", it would be way ahead of its time. The first  official cards that allowed to be played in different phases were in quite late expansions (as far as I am aware of), e.g. Crown. While your card concept would easily fit there or in later expansions, I think it is not a good choice for Intrigue.

ok. judge it on those merits then. This is the color split missing in intrigue and i entered it on those grounds while fulfilling the rest of the criteria (choices, simplicity, etc). I'm very happy with it as my entry and think it fits the goals of the intrigue expansion while giving a small taste of what's to come in future expansions. Consider it a sui generis case like how Nomad Camp used to be the only thing that messed with the opening, or how masquerade is the only card that uses the pass mechanic.

Please read on the wiki about Crown http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Crown (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Crown). It seems Donald and others were really excited about a novel Action-Treasure card, and that as late as Empires came out. Your card can totally avoid being a hybrid card with (almost) the same functionality in making it a pure Action card (or pure Treasure), e.g.:

Quote
Choose one: +1 Action and +$2; or gain* a card costing up to $4.

* you may add "you may" if you insist of course.

By the way, I thought it is better to make my criteria clear as early as possible and not after judging the cards.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: LibraryAdventurer on September 29, 2020, 05:33:28 pm
Quote
Lumbermonger • $5 • Action - Treasure
If it's your Buy phase, +$2.

Otherwise, you may gain a card costing up to $4.

I don't want to be a spoilsport, but I am afraid this is not a good choice for a typical Intrigue card. While an Action-Treasure card is certainly exciting, and Lumbermonger fulfills the criterion "different choices", it would be way ahead of its time. The first  official cards that allowed to be played in different phases were in quite late expansions (as far as I am aware of), e.g. Crown.

ok. judge it on those merits then. This is the color split missing in intrigue and i entered it on those grounds while fulfilling the rest of the criteria (choices, simplicity, etc). I'm very happy with it as my entry and think it fits the goals of the intrigue expansion while giving a small taste of what's to come in future expansions. Consider it a sui generis case like how Nomad Camp used to be the only thing that messed with the opening, or how masquerade is the only card that uses the pass mechanic.
You could easily convert it to an Action card with "Choose one: +1 Action, +$2; or gain a card costing up to $4."
Either way, I think it should cost $4.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: AJD on September 29, 2020, 06:03:42 pm
Quote
Lumbermonger • $5 • Action - Treasure
If it's your Buy phase, +$2.

Otherwise, you may gain a card costing up to $4.

I don't want to be a spoilsport, but I am afraid this is not a good choice for a typical Intrigue card. While an Action-Treasure card is certainly exciting, and Lumbermonger fulfills the criterion "different choices", it would be way ahead of its time. The first  official cards that allowed to be played in different phases were in quite late expansions (as far as I am aware of), e.g. Crown.

ok. judge it on those merits then. This is the color split missing in intrigue and i entered it on those grounds while fulfilling the rest of the criteria (choices, simplicity, etc). I'm very happy with it as my entry and think it fits the goals of the intrigue expansion while giving a small taste of what's to come in future expansions. Consider it a sui generis case like how Nomad Camp used to be the only thing that messed with the opening, or how masquerade is the only card that uses the pass mechanic.
You could easily convert it to an Action card with "Choose one: +1 Action, +$2; or gain a card costing up to $4."
Either way, I think it should cost $4.

I think this is too strong for $4 but too weak for $5... the $5 version of this card already exists, and it's Charm. Charm isn't strictly better than this by any means, but it does the same type of thing in an overall more versatile and powerful way.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: LordBaphomet on September 29, 2020, 09:28:42 pm
Quote
Lumbermonger • $5 • Action - Treasure
If it's your Buy phase, +$2.

Otherwise, you may gain a card costing up to $4.

I don't want to be a spoilsport, but I am afraid this is not a good choice for a typical Intrigue card. While an Action-Treasure card is certainly exciting, and Lumbermonger fulfills the criterion "different choices", it would be way ahead of its time. The first  official cards that allowed to be played in different phases were in quite late expansions (as far as I am aware of), e.g. Crown.

ok. judge it on those merits then. This is the color split missing in intrigue and i entered it on those grounds while fulfilling the rest of the criteria (choices, simplicity, etc). I'm very happy with it as my entry and think it fits the goals of the intrigue expansion while giving a small taste of what's to come in future expansions. Consider it a sui generis case like how Nomad Camp used to be the only thing that messed with the opening, or how masquerade is the only card that uses the pass mechanic.
You could easily convert it to an Action card with "Choose one: +1 Action, +$2; or gain a card costing up to $4."
Either way, I think it should cost $4.

I think this is too strong for $4 but too weak for $5... the $5 version of this card already exists, and it's Charm. Charm isn't strictly better than this by any means, but it does the same type of thing in an overall more versatile and powerful way.
Also special treasure cards only started in alchemy.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: NoMoreFun on September 29, 2020, 10:29:08 pm
Also special treasure cards only started in alchemy.

Harem
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: LordBaphomet on September 29, 2020, 11:02:04 pm
Also special treasure cards only started in alchemy.

Harem
Whelp nevermind... can't believe I forgot about that.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: grrgrrgrr on September 30, 2020, 02:03:47 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/5BlCx1g.png)
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: D782802859 on September 30, 2020, 02:12:33 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/5BlCx1g.png)

Maybe this should trigger off of it having 2 or more types so it's less narrow. Minor nitpick, the color spit is upside down. The white should be above the green.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: D782802859 on September 30, 2020, 02:24:02 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/IC70Sbu.png?1)

Couldn't resist the pun.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Jack Rudd on September 30, 2020, 02:25:27 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/5BlCx1g.png)

Maybe this should trigger off of it having 2 or more types so it's less narrow. Minor nitpick, the color spit is upside down. The white should be above the green.
Hmm. I'm not sure that Intrigue needs cheap ways to KC a Torturer.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: pubby on September 30, 2020, 02:50:21 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/bdDfM0S.png)
edit: changed slightly
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Jonatan Djurachkovitch on September 30, 2020, 03:15:00 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/wICzvLT.png)
So, this ability triggers every shuffle when I discard it from play? Super fast pile-outs + gardens synergy is what I'm getting. Not sure it needs +1 Action
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: silverspawn on September 30, 2020, 03:47:28 pm
I'm pretty sure the intended effect was that it doesn't trigger on Clean-up. Definitely needs +1 Action then.

I think this is a reasonable fixed secret chamber, but storeroom is a fantastic fixed secret chamber.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: pubby on September 30, 2020, 05:00:40 pm
Yeah it's not meant to work in clean-up. The +1 Action is so it can combo with shanty town, conspirator, minion, etc. I've changed it to be a feast-like effect on discard so that it doesn't drain piles so quickly.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Xen3k on September 30, 2020, 06:34:00 pm
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50688783228_42e64e1e38_b.jpg)

Quote
Heiress - $5
Action
+2 Cards
You may reveal a Victory card from your hand. If it is an...
Estate, +1 Buy, +$2.
Duchy, gain a Gold.
Province, +2 Actions.
Action card, play it.

I wanted to make something similar to Baron in that Victory cards matter, but make it relevant late game. The main power level concerns I have are the Estate level rewards and the Action level rewards. I think $4 is appropriate, but could be mistaken.

Edit: Changed to $5.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: LibraryAdventurer on September 30, 2020, 06:40:09 pm
Quote
Heiress - $4
Action
+2 Cards
You may reveal a Victory card from your hand. If it is an...
Estate, +1 Buy, +$2.
Duchy, gain a Gold.
Province, +2 Actions.
Action card, play it.

I wanted to make something similar to Baron in that Victory cards matter, but make it relevant late game. The main power level concerns I have are the Estate level rewards and the Action level rewards. I think $4 is appropriate, but could be mistaken.
I like it, but I think as-is it should cost $5. Also, it'd be nice to have other victory cards do something with it too, so maybe:

Quote
You may reveal a Victory card from your hand. If it is an...
Estate, +1 Buy, +$2.
Province, +2 Actions.
Action card, play it.
any other victory card, gain a treasure card costing up to $1 more than it.
(...or something)

If the Estate option was weaker (maybe +1 Buy, +$1) and you discarded the Victory card instead of just revealing, then I think it'd be good at $4. But I think I like it better as-is at $5.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Xen3k on September 30, 2020, 06:44:11 pm
Quote
Heiress - $4
Action
+2 Cards
You may reveal a Victory card from your hand. If it is an...
Estate, +1 Buy, +$2.
Duchy, gain a Gold.
Province, +2 Actions.
Action card, play it.

I wanted to make something similar to Baron in that Victory cards matter, but make it relevant late game. The main power level concerns I have are the Estate level rewards and the Action level rewards. I think $4 is appropriate, but could be mistaken.
I like it, but I think as-is it should cost $5.

Yeah, you are right. At $4 it compares to well against the likes of Lab and similar cards. Thanks.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: NoMoreFun on September 30, 2020, 11:05:11 pm
Landscaper
Action/Victory - $3
Worth 1VP if you have more Estates than Landscapers
-
+1 Action
+$1
Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal a Victory card. Put that card into your hand and discard the rest.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: gambit05 on October 05, 2020, 03:11:46 am

Deadline for submission in 24 hours (3:30 am Forum time).

Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: gambit05 on October 06, 2020, 04:42:57 am

Assessment Round 2 - Cards for the Intrigue expansion

Intrigue has 3 sub-themes: 1) Choosing something from 2 or more options, 2) Victory cards that do something, and 3) cards that do something with Victory cards. All cards submitted offer one or more of these mechanics (Chamber Pot does it indirectly, but that is fine), so I will not mention much about this criterion for the challenge. A minor point of the contest was to give your card a name that fits to its abilities and to the flavor of Intrigue. You have done that more or less successfully, although in a few cases (e.g. Farmers Guild), I wasn’t able to find the connection. Anyway, this criterion wasn’t decisive for the evaluation of any of your cards.
When I will mention “simple” in the assessments of your cards, this is meant to be a positive attribute.


Informer from LibraryAdventurer

$3 - Action
Quote
+$1.
Reveal the top four cards of your deck.
Put all victory cards and any one other
card into your hand. Put the rest back
in any order.

This is a cheap version of Scout and Patrol, with the important difference that a useful card (other than Action-Victory cards) can be put into hand a la Sage. Since it is itself terminal, it needs support if included in an Engine. On the other hand, it can keep and use a revealed Treasure, and a revealed Action card can be put back, if no further Action is available. This means that $5 can be reached pretty soon during a game. Informer allows some indirect sifting, but is like Scout still weak. A solid card with a fitting name, but the mechanic is not “breath taking”.


Farmers Guild from Jonatan Djurachkovitch

$5 - Action-Victory
Quote
Discard up to 3 victory cards from
your hand for +2 cards each.
If any of them were Action cards,
+1 Action.
----------------------------------
2 VP

This looks like a Shepard with VP tagged on it. Farmers Guild needs to discard Action-Victory cards for getting further Actions, or a Village that was played before. With a cost of $5 it is in tough competition, but is might be quite useful late in the game as it shows synergy with itself and other Action-Victory cards. Farmers Guild has relatively simple instructions, but is a bit too similar to Shepard and looks too powerful, i.e. a $5 cost card that produces 2 VP and has quite strong abilities.


Lumbermonger from spineflu

$5 - Action – Treasure
Quote
If it's your Buy phase, +$2.

Otherwise, you may gain a
card costing up to $4.

As I have said shortly after your submission, an Action – Treasure is not the best choice for a typical Intrigue card. The argument that this represents the missing combination of a dual card type is debatable (for an Intrigue card) and would only hold when the abilities of the two phases (Action and Buy) are clearly distinctive. However, mechanically Lumbermonger doesn’t need to be a hybrid card as the two choices can be put on an Action-only card just by adding +1 Action to the first choice. Even then, it seems to be weak when compared to Charm.


Fief from LordBaphomet

$5 – Action - Victory
Quote
+1 Action
+1 Card for each victory card in play.
------------------------------
1 VP

This is a guarantied cantrip (Great Hall) with the potential of being a Lab or more. For its cost likely not an opening buy, but it can be useful later in the game. It needs support (itself or other Action – Victory cards), but that is okay for a card providing VP and a high potential for becoming a strong card. It is simple in design, but for a $5 cost card, it’s use is a bit too limited even in Intrigue-only games.


Impersonator from Aquila

$5 – Action
Quote
+$1
Choose one: reveal the top 3 cards
of your deck, set aside one of the Actions,
discard the rest, then play the Action;
or replay an Action card you've played
this turn that's still in play.

This allows sifting, and then gives a choice between playing one of the revealed cards or one that is already in play. With the given wording, my understanding is that it would be able to play itself in an endless loop. Even if that was not meant to occur, it could be still done with 2 Impersonators; The name of the card is a nice choice as it fits to its abilities and to Intrigue. I feel that a modified second option would improve the card.


Golden Throne from grrgrrgrr

$5 – Action - Victory
Quote
You may play an Action card
from your hand twice. If it is
Victory card, play it another
time.
-------------------------
1 VP

A Throne Room variant with the potential for becoming really powerful. It shows some synergy with itself, but clearly requires other Action cards; so in that sense a typical Throne Room variant. It may get crazy with other Action – Victory cards, i.e. Mill and Nobles, but which Throne Room variant doesn’t do that? This looks like a typical Intrigue card that is useful in a lot of Kingdoms.


Rook from D782802859

$2 – Action
Quote
Choose one: +1 Action and
look at the top 3 cards of
your deck, discard any
number of them and put the
rest back in any order; or
+2 Cards.

Two weak options on a cheap card, which looks fine. It combines a Cartographer light and a Moat, i.e. either allows some non-terminal sifting without drawing or is terminal with limited drawing. The apparent self-synergy looks like a Rooky trap as playing two consecutive Rooks leads to the same hand size without any Action left. Without support this means drawing Treasures with a second Rook is the preferred strategy. Rook looks appropriate for a $2 cost card and has an innovative mechanic.


Chamber Pot from pubby

$3 – Action - Reaction
Quote
+1 Action
Discard any number of cards.
+$1 per card discarded.
----------------------------
When you discard this other
than during Clean-up, you
may trash it to gain a card
costing up to $6.

When played, this is a non-terminal Secret Chamber, which is quite strong. As a Reaction, it is a modified Tunnel that trashes itself for a strong card. The on-play abilities guarantee that Chamber Pot’s Reaction is always useful. Overall, it looks interesting, probably too strong, since gaining any card up to $6 is extremely flexible (Gold, Duchy, strong Action cards including Nobles), in any phase of the game and with any strategy. What I especially like is that the Reaction ability of Chamber Pot counteracts the misconception that new players often have in that the job of a Reaction is to prevent Attacks a la Moat. I would likely let it cost $4 to prevent a double-Chamber Pot opening.


Heiress from Xen3k

$5 – Action
Quote
+2 Cards
You may reveal a Victory card
from your hand. If it is an...
Estate, +1 Buy, +$2.
Duchy, gain a Gold.
Province, +2 Actions.
Action card, play it.

A Courtier for Victory cards, fitting to Intrigue but also directly competes with Courtier (cost and design-wise). The drawing ability increases the likelihood for finding a suitable target and ensures that the card is not useless when no Victory cards are in hand. Heiress is quite useful early in the game for using untrashed Estates for payload and late in the game when the density of Victory cards increases. What I like here is that it does not show self-synergy. It emphasizes Action-Victory cards, but is also useful in any Kingdom because of the presence of the basic Victory cards needed as targets.


Landscaper from NoMoreFun

Action/Victory - $3
Quote
Worth 1VP if you have
more Estates than Landscapers
------------------------------
+1 Action, +$1.
Reveal cards from your deck
until you reveal a Victory card.
Put that card into your hand
and discard the rest.

This looks like an exotic reverse Duke. It is basically a non-terminal Copper that digs for a Victory card. Just from that point of view it looks counter-productive, except when finding Action-Victory cards and thus other Landscapers. If Estates can be trashed, it easily becomes a Peddler variant sifting through the deck; and in this case I would likely ignore the VPs of Landscapers for scoring at the end of the game. If considered to be worth buying in a given Kingdom, it requires a strategic decision about what to do with the Estates. This is definitively an interesting card with a name fitting to its mechanic.
Side note: The Action and Victory instructions should be swapped.


There are several cards I like and that would fit well to the Intrigue expansion, maybe with some minor modifications, but given the relative small pool of submitted cards, I refrain from naming too many cards. The cards that I found most exciting were those that offer clever new mechanics and a new version of the "reveal something for doing something" mechanic. So, my final assessment is:

Winner: Heiress from Xen3k.
Runner ups: Landscaper from NoMoreFun and Rook from D782802859.


Thank you all for participating!
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Xen3k on October 06, 2020, 07:29:35 am
Thank you to gambit05 for Judging and congrats to all the runner ups!

Contest round #3: Seaside

So, like the previous two contests the goal is to make a card that fits into the Seaside expansion mechanically and thematically. The main focus of Seaside design was to have cards that effect future turns. The big changes Seaside brought to Dominion are the Duration cards, Mats, and Tokens.

I will be judging the cards based on the above design goal of the set. New mats and tokens are welcome, but mats and tokens introduced in future sets are off-limits. I will be using Duration cards introduced in future sets as reference for design and power level evaluation, but will try to only judge it's inclusion in the set in relations to the other cards of the set.

I will try and start Judging 10/12/2020.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: LibraryAdventurer on October 06, 2020, 07:52:48 am
Original Intrigue Design contest winner from 2013:

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9563.0
Quote
Prefecture
Cost: $5 - Action – Victory
Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal a Victory card. If you do, put it and one other revealed card into your hand. Discard the rest.
-
Worth 2 VP.
by Fragasnap


2nd Intrigue Design contest winner from 2016:

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14737.0
Quote
Royal Tutor
Cost: $5 - Action
You may play an action card from your hand. If you do so, play another action from the supply costing up to the cost of the first played card, leaving it there.
by Beyond Awesome (before Command cards were a thing)
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Jonatan Djurachkovitch on October 06, 2020, 10:49:27 am
Here's my submission, a version of a Secret History idea.
Quote
Royal Expedition
$6 - Action-Duration
Now and at the start of your next turn, you may play an Action card from your hand twice.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: LibraryAdventurer on October 07, 2020, 02:46:11 am
My entry:

Quote
Drawbridge
$3 - Action - Duration
+2 cards. At the start of your next turn, you may trash a card from your hand.
-
While this is in play, when another player plays an attack, its player may discard a card. If they don't, you are unaffected by the attack.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: aladdinstardust on October 08, 2020, 06:18:46 pm
(https://i.ibb.co/vkMHjR2/Port-Inspector.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
Port Inspector - $4 (Action - Duration)
+$2
At the start of your next turn, you may trash or gain to hand a card from your Island mat.
-
While this is in play, when you gain a card, put it on your Island mat.


Watch out! Your items are being checked at the port! If they meet the standards of our fair city, then you may have them; otherwise, they will be confiscated and destroyed. Even Smugglers get checked at this port.

A fun card that helps beat junking, while also letting your purchases always make the shuffle. Beware, however, that gaining too much at once will overwhelm the already busy Port Inspector, and he will only be able to give your items back one at a time - and he isn't always on duty! Granted, you may not actually want your victory cards at any point, in which case, the Port Inspector will keep them at the docks for later.

Also has fun interactions with Island, allowing you to reuse them, or set aside cards that you can have inspected later.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: alion8me on October 09, 2020, 01:09:46 am
(https://i.imgur.com/wsvnyOF.png)

Quote
Shipyard

+1 Action
At the start of your next turn, discard a card from your hand and gain a card costing up to $5.

Action - Duration
$4
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: segura on October 09, 2020, 12:19:16 pm
Looks like one of those weird Durations that only exists for the sake of nerfing, yet at the same time it is buffed via non-terminality.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: D782802859 on October 09, 2020, 04:57:52 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/0ed9bHZ.png?1)

Not really sure on the wording.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: silverspawn on October 09, 2020, 05:13:55 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/0ed9bHZ.png?1)

Not really sure on the wording.

Conceptually elegant, but totally busted. +2$ +2 cards is reasonable at 5$, and this is actually better than that since you'll essentially always use +2$ now and then can't draw cards dead on the next turn.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: grep on October 09, 2020, 06:09:55 pm
The missing Attack-Duration for Seaside:
(https://i.ibb.co/s66D1m5/image.png)
Frigate
$5 - Action - Attack - Duration
Now and at start of your next turn:
+$1
Each other player discards down to 3 cards.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: GendoIkari on October 09, 2020, 06:19:53 pm
The missing Attack-Duration for Seaside:
(https://i.ibb.co/s66D1m5/image.png)
Frigate
$5 - Action - Attack - Duration
Now and at start of your next turn:
+$1
Each other player discards down to 3 cards.

The weird/interesting thing about this is that playing this card every turn is the exact same effect as playing a Militia every turn; but it still has to be more expensive.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: grrgrrgrr on October 10, 2020, 03:52:54 am
(https://i.imgur.com/xp1AneJ.png)
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: silverspawn on October 10, 2020, 05:35:12 am
Not to be a broken record, but this is also totally busted. This card is about as strong as Wharf (albeit less mass-able) and costs 4$. The fact that the penalty occurs after discard attacks means that those are a reasonable counter, but absent a militia, discarding 2 cards isn't a serious penalty for something with this kind of an effect. You'll just buy this every game.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Holger on October 10, 2020, 06:54:41 am
(https://i.imgur.com/0ed9bHZ.png?1)

Not really sure on the wording.

Conceptually elegant, but totally busted. +2$ +2 cards is reasonable at 5$, and this is actually better than that since you'll essentially always use +2$ now and then can't draw cards dead on the next turn.

I think it would be fine at $5, as it is nerfed by being a Duration. The card's effect is clearly stronger than Merchant Ship, but probably weaker than Wharf as it lacks +Buys.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: silverspawn on October 10, 2020, 06:59:30 am
(https://i.imgur.com/0ed9bHZ.png?1)

Not really sure on the wording.

Conceptually elegant, but totally busted. +2$ +2 cards is reasonable at 5$, and this is actually better than that since you'll essentially always use +2$ now and then can't draw cards dead on the next turn.

I think it would be fine at $5, as it is nerfed by being a Duration. The card's effect is clearly stronger than Merchant Ship, but probably weaker than Wharf as it lacks +Buys.

Yeah, I agree. Definitely weaker than Wharf.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: gambit05 on October 10, 2020, 08:59:44 am
My submission:

Edit: Changed name and added image.

(https://i.ibb.co/r4kRQTz/Ferryman.png)

Ferryman
$4 – Action - Duration
Quote
Trash up to 2 cards from
your hand and put that
many Coin tokens on this.

At the start of your next
turn: Remove the Coin
tokens, for +$1 each.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: LordBaphomet on October 10, 2020, 10:53:30 am
Needs a title
(https://i.imgur.com/artVcsr.png)
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: dpm on October 10, 2020, 11:07:20 am
Needs a title
(https://i.imgur.com/artVcsr.png)

Tender. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship%27s_tender
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Aquila on October 10, 2020, 03:44:52 pm
Quote
Shipbuilder - Action Duration, $4 cost.
Choose one: gain a card onto your deck costing up to $3; or gain a card onto your deck costing up to $5.
At the start of your next turn, get the other choice.
You're gaining a cheap card and a nice $5 in whichever order you like. The top-deck gaining can influence your decisions and make planning ahead a bit more defined.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: segura on October 11, 2020, 07:41:32 am
Not to be a broken record, but this is also totally busted. This card is about as strong as Wharf (albeit less mass-able) and costs 4$. The fact that the penalty occurs after discard attacks means that those are a reasonable counter, but absent a militia, discarding 2 cards isn't a serious penalty for something with this kind of an effect. You'll just buy this every game.
I totally disagree, without the extra Buy this would be significantly weaker than Smithy. As you pointed out, discarding at the start of your turn is like anti Duration draw.
Handsize attacks are in now way merely a „reasonable counter“, they make the card basically unplayable. After Militia hit, you can keep your Village at the start of your turn, and perhaps your village draws into your Steamboat. If it does not, the turn is lost (1 card does very little).
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: silverspawn on October 11, 2020, 08:18:08 am
Handsize attacks are in now way merely a „reasonable counter“, they make the card basically unplayable. After Militia hit, you can keep your Village at the start of your turn, and perhaps your village draws into your Steamboat. If it does not, the turn is lost (1 card does very little).

I'm happy to just assume this is true. That doesn't really solve the problem. If a card is busted in 90% of cases but useless in 10%, this doesn't make the 90% any less problematic. You don't average the powerlevel, you still look at just the 90%.

And if we just assume no discard, you have a bonkers effect. The penalty of discarding 2 cards at the start of your turn seems significantly smaller than that of your opponent discarding a specific card now. In other words, even if you took away the buy, it would still be stronger than envoy, probably by quite a bit. Envoy is top tier $4s. Adding a buy to that is nuts.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: segura on October 11, 2020, 10:25:38 am
Handsize attacks are in now way merely a „reasonable counter“, they make the card basically unplayable. After Militia hit, you can keep your Village at the start of your turn, and perhaps your village draws into your Steamboat. If it does not, the turn is lost (1 card does very little).

I'm happy to just assume this is true. That doesn't really solve the problem. If a card is busted in 90% of cases but useless in 10%, this doesn't make the 90% any less problematic. You don't average the powerlevel, you still look at just the 90%.

And if we just assume no discard, you have a bonkers effect. The penalty of discarding 2 cards at the start of your turn seems significantly smaller than that of your opponent discarding a specific card now. In other words, even if you took away the buy, it would still be stronger than envoy, probably by quite a bit. Envoy is top tier $4s. Adding a buy to that is nuts.
You seriously underestimate the two huge liabilities of the card.

First, it is a Duration and in a deck-drawing engine it is only half as strong as its non-Duration counterpart.
This is a common fallacy. I thought that Mastermind is busted when I first saw it and it took me quite some games until I understood what I should have known since Seaside has been out, that it is often just a half-KC.

Second, that's we already went over above. Discarding at the start of your next turn hurts more than discarding at the current turn. It is trivial, you discard the worst 2 out of 5 (instead the worst 2 of out of 9 as it would be on the current turn).
For the sake of argument, let us invert the order of Embassy: "Discard 3 cards. If you did, +5 Cards."
I don't know the strength of this. Is it a $3? Does it suck at any price? No idea, all I know is that I would never ever prefer this over Smithy.


Now the card could very well be too strong, who knows. But it seems pretty clear to me that without a Buy it is definitely worse than Smithy and with a Buy it is weaker than Barge.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: silverspawn on October 11, 2020, 11:22:05 am
For the sake of argument, let us invert the order of Embassy: "Discard 3 cards. If you did, +5 Cards."

Embassy is actually a great example. I would, in fact, buy this card over smithy (if it cost 4$). I would certainly buy one of them, maybe two, then switch into smithies.

But of course, this card is way weaker than Steamboat because it discards 3 cards, not 2. The thing to compare it to is "discard 2 cards, draw 5" which is way stronger than Smithy.

Does it being a duration make it worse? Barely, actually, since you only want two of them anyway (unless you have no chances to ever draw your deck).
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: segura on October 11, 2020, 11:58:36 am
Does it being a duration make it worse? Barely, actually, since you only want two of them anyway (unless you have no chances to ever draw your deck).
The notion that you only need two Smithy (variants) in a deck is utterly ludicrous, and even more so when they are Durations. In general, how many terminal drawers you need / you want / are optimal is extremly Kingdom and deck dependent.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: silverspawn on October 11, 2020, 01:25:46 pm
I'm saying you only want two steamboats because you only want to play one per turn because otherwise your next turn is dead.

You could argue that this fact by itself makes the card weaker, which is technically true, but like the 'it's bad with discard attacks' argument, it misses the point. if a card is only ever bought twice, but it's so good that it's always bought first, that's still an issue.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: segura on October 11, 2020, 02:08:44 pm
Thanks, I totally missed that you only want to play one copy per turn.
It neatly illustrates what I already pointed out, how bad the discarding at the next turn is (relative to discarding at the first turn.

Add the collision issue (as we know from other cards, you don’t always manage to play one copy per turn) and the card becomes even weaker. Now I am fairly certain that it is fine at $4.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: gambit05 on October 11, 2020, 02:40:49 pm
I am not saying anything about the cost of Steamboat or whether it is too strong or not, but a few things should be considered here.

First of all, this is supposed to belong to Seaside. Seaside has quite a lot of cards that enable some drawing at the start of next turn: Haven (indirectly), Native Village, Warehouse (no net drawing, but a good chance to find the best card when starting with a 1 card hand), Caravan, and Wharf; and Outpost and Tactician seem also to be good. So, from that point of view in a Seaside-only or -heavy game, Militia-type attacks should be handled well more often than not. In Kingdoms where there is no good compensation for such attacks, I wouldn't buy Steamboat.
Secondly, there are  a lot of deck inspection and digging cards around in all the expansions, likely more than Militia-type attacks.

Just my 2 Cents.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: silverspawn on October 11, 2020, 03:01:22 pm
The militia thing is kind of a red herring since it's just not present in most games. But I take the point that delayed draw might mean you can play more than one Steamboat per turn. haven in particular would be a nice combo, you can set aside useless cards and then discard them to your steamboat.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: X-tra on October 11, 2020, 03:36:58 pm
Attempting something with the missing remodeler from Seaside:

(https://i.postimg.cc/rFFfByxt/Dispatch-v1.png)

A delayed remodeler to keep with Seaside's Duration cards spirit. Gaining to hand in a full new hand is pretty chill, not too overpowered, but like Cobbler, I believe this has to cost (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/7/7d/Coin5.png/16px-Coin5.png). I almost put a +1 Action vanilla bonus on this card.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: silverspawn on October 11, 2020, 05:07:28 pm
Somehow, I had the idea that not all Seaside cards are duration cards. Idk why I thought that.

(https://i.ibb.co/PNgvK1T/Waterfall.png)

In light of the previous discussion, I imagine segura will think this is underpowered. It isn't. Anyway, I thought that discarding first is actually an underutilized mechanic.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: segura on October 11, 2020, 05:40:14 pm
Ignoring the Fugitive-like effect for the other players (power level of a $4 and thus too much of a nerf), this is weaker than Embassy unless you discard 3 cards.
Perhaps it is sound at $4 or sound at $5 without the huge bonus for the opponents (although I doubt that this would buff it enough).

Discarding stuff before you draw is a cool idea. As long as you don’t get the power level totally wrong in the implementation.
Also, this has zero to do with Seaside.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: LittleFish on October 11, 2020, 05:52:27 pm
Caravan had nothing to do with seaside either. Waterfall makes the most sense in seaside if anything
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Xen3k on October 11, 2020, 05:56:31 pm
24 Hour Notice.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: NoMoreFun on October 11, 2020, 09:11:09 pm
Importer
Action/Duration - $6
At the start of your next turn, gain a card costing up to $5
---
While this is in play, when you gain a card, you may put it into your hand or onto your deck.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: anordinaryman on October 11, 2020, 09:50:00 pm

(https://files.coding4.coffee/selif/eg5i0tvm.png)

Quote
Sunken Treasure - Action - $5
+2 Cards
Choose one: Put a gold from the Supply and the top card of your deck face up on your Native Village mat; or put up to 3 cards from your Native Village Mat on top of your deck in any order.

This submission deals with three sub-themes of Seaside -- Gold Gaining, top of the deck, and mats. It may look like this combos excellently with Native Village except those cards together mean your hand size stays exactly same.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: LibraryAdventurer on October 11, 2020, 11:43:16 pm
Quote
Sunken Treasure - Action - $5
+2 Cards
Choose one: Put a gold from the Supply and the top card of your deck face up on your Native Village mat; or put up to 3 cards from your Native Village Mat on top of your deck in any order.

This submission deals with three sub-themes of Seaside -- Gold Gaining, top of the deck, and mats. It may look like this combos excellently with Native Village except those cards together mean your hand size stays exactly same.
Neat idea, but I think it might be weak for $5. Maybe have the second option be "Take three cards from your Native Village mat, putting one in your hand, and the rest on top of your deck" ?
Also, I didn't realize Seaside had a gold-gaining subtheme.


Somehow, I had the idea that not all Seaside cards are duration cards. Idk why I thought that.
<waterfall>
In light of the previous discussion, I imagine segura will think this is underpowered. It isn't. Anyway, I thought that discarding first is actually an underutilized mechanic.
I like the card, but I really don't think it needs the drawback of helping other players.
Also, I think the set expansion contests are supposed to use at least one of the mechanical themes of the expansion, which for Seaside would be: duration, other next-turn/top-decking stuff (like Treasury/Treasure Map), usage of the Seaside mats, pirate ship tokens, embargo tokens, etc.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: gambit05 on October 12, 2020, 02:36:58 am
Somehow, I had the idea that not all Seaside cards are duration cards. Idk why I thought that.
<waterfall>
In light of the previous discussion, I imagine segura will think this is underpowered. It isn't. Anyway, I thought that discarding first is actually an underutilized mechanic.
I like the card, but I really don't think it needs the drawback of helping other players.
Also, I think the set expansion contests are supposed to use at least one of the mechanical themes of the expansion, which for Seaside would be: duration, other next-turn/top-decking stuff (like Treasury/Treasure Map), usage of the Seaside mats, pirate ship tokens, embargo tokens, etc.

When I started designing a card for this contest, my first thought was to create a non-Duration card that has some effects underrepresented in Seaside. Once I was done with it; I realised that it really didn't looked like a typical Seaside card (although it might fit well with the expansion) and rejected the idea. In contrast, I think with Waterfall there is a Seaside mechanic, but not immediately obvious. It is the discarding of the top card that other players can do; a nice counter to top-decking attacks such as Ghost Ship and Sea Hag.

Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: LibraryAdventurer on October 12, 2020, 02:53:05 am
Somehow, I had the idea that not all Seaside cards are duration cards. Idk why I thought that.
<waterfall>
In light of the previous discussion, I imagine segura will think this is underpowered. It isn't. Anyway, I thought that discarding first is actually an underutilized mechanic.
I like the card, but I really don't think it needs the drawback of helping other players.
Also, I think the set expansion contests are supposed to use at least one of the mechanical themes of the expansion, which for Seaside would be: duration, other next-turn/top-decking stuff (like Treasury/Treasure Map), usage of the Seaside mats, pirate ship tokens, embargo tokens, etc.

When I started designing a card for this contest, my first thought was to create a non-Duration card that has some effects underrepresented in Seaside. Once I was done with it; I realised that it really didn't looked like a typical Seaside card (although it might fit well with the expansion) and rejected the idea. In contrast, I think with Waterfall there is a Seaside mechanic, but not immediately obvious. It is the discarding of the top card that other players can do; a nice counter to top-decking attacks such as Ghost Ship and Sea Hag.
With Ghost Ship, you could keep your junk in your hand, knowing you can discard it to draw your better cards with Waterfall.
But it doesn't discard from the top of the deck, so I don't see how it counters Sea Hag more than any other draw card.

Anyway, it was just kind of a warning that Xen3k might not consider it a match for Seaside, but I'll let him be the judge of how well it fits.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: silverspawn on October 12, 2020, 03:40:06 am

Somehow, I had the idea that not all Seaside cards are duration cards. Idk why I thought that.
<waterfall>
In light of the previous discussion, I imagine segura will think this is underpowered. It isn't. Anyway, I thought that discarding first is actually an underutilized mechanic.
I like the card, but I really don't think it needs the drawback of helping other players.
Also, I think the set expansion contests are supposed to use at least one of the mechanical themes of the expansion, which for Seaside would be: duration, other next-turn/top-decking stuff (like Treasury/Treasure Map), usage of the Seaside mats, pirate ship tokens, embargo tokens, etc.
 
I shall not be heartbroken if it doesn't qualify, and I don't expect it to win either way since most people probably share segura's intuition here.

Alas! I think you're wrong. The thing that's most important in most dominion games is to play as many hand-size increasing effects as possible. That's why smithy is strong (it's one of them) and why trashing it's strong (lets you play then more often).

This card is bonkers for that. It's both sifting and draw together. Way stronger than embassy since it increases your hand size by twice as much.

(I do agree it doesn't need the penalty power-level wise, but I think it's a higher skill card with the penalty, and still  strong enough to be bought.)

And every set has several cards that don't fit the theme. Like warehouse.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: segura on October 12, 2020, 09:21:09 am
What the other payers get, i.e. Reverse Fugitive, is a $4:

+1 Card
+1 Action

Discard a card to draw a card

There is an old discussion about a Lab for $4 that gives each other player a Fugitive. The hunch was that it is too weak.
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4701
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4007.msg97045#msg97045

Waterfall is quite similar, not to mention that Reverse Fugitive is often preferable to Waterfall, especially if terminal space is limited (or you are thin and can only discard good stuff before you draw in which case the card is just a Smithy).

So yeah, this is a weakish $5 without the Reverse Fugitive and totally underpowered with the Reverse Fugitive.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: silverspawn on October 12, 2020, 09:30:41 am
called it
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: segura on October 12, 2020, 09:30:45 am
Caravan had nothing to do with seaside either. Waterfall makes the most sense in seaside if anything
The focus of the expansion contests is first and foremost on mechanics. The theme should ideally match, but that is secondary.
If the focus would be on theme, I could post a Night card named Pirate" that I play with and that uses Spoils and the Treasure Chest.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: LordBaphomet on October 12, 2020, 11:11:18 am
Caravan had nothing to do with seaside either. Waterfall makes the most sense in seaside if anything
The focus of the expansion contests is first and foremost on mechanics. The theme should ideally match, but that is secondary.
If the focus would be on theme, I could post a Night card named Pirate" that I play with and that uses Spoils and the Treasure Chest.

I think Caravan fits the secondary theme of trade/commerce. Embargo, Smugglers, Warehouse, Caravan, Bazaar, Merchant Ship all fit this theme.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: anordinaryman on October 12, 2020, 02:12:23 pm
Quote
Sunken Treasure - Action - $5
+2 Cards
Choose one: Put a gold from the Supply and the top card of your deck face up on your Native Village mat; or put up to 3 cards from your Native Village Mat on top of your deck in any order.

This submission deals with three sub-themes of Seaside -- Gold Gaining, top of the deck, and mats. It may look like this combos excellently with Native Village except those cards together mean your hand size stays exactly same.
Neat idea, but I think it might be weak for $5. Maybe have the second option be "Take three cards from your Native Village mat, putting one in your hand, and the rest on top of your deck" ?
Also, I didn't realize Seaside had a gold-gaining subtheme.

Nice idea. That makes it a Smithy+ (draws 2 cards and the third card you have some choice over), which seems great for a 3. And I could simplify the ordering... I'm going to do that!

Yeah, technically the sub-them is conditional gold gaining-- Explorer and Treasure Map (and to some extent Smugglers specifically allows up to 6). This sort of fits in that the Conditional clause is you need to play Sunken Treasure twice.

The only other "original" expansion that has two gold gainers is Hinterlands. Even with the new expansions, no other expansion has two action cards that gain golds, though there are events that do it. But at the time it was pretty cool like, wow I can directly gain golds and you feel like a Pirate in a way.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: anordinaryman on October 12, 2020, 02:13:25 pm
Updated Submission

(https://files.coding4.coffee/selif/vf3lhqkd.png)

Quote
Sunken Treasure - Action - $5
+2 Cards
Choose one: take up to two cards from your Native Village Mat, putting one in your hand and the other on top of your deck; or put a gold from the Supply and the top card of your deck face up on your Native Village mat.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Xen3k on October 12, 2020, 05:58:32 pm
Closing Submissions

I will try and get the results posted tonight.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: LordBaphomet on October 12, 2020, 07:41:53 pm
Closing Submissions

I will try and get the results posted tonight.

I completely forgot to put a price on mine so if it could just be taken out of the consideration? Thanks.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Xen3k on October 12, 2020, 08:08:48 pm
Closing Submissions

I will try and get the results posted tonight.

I completely forgot to put a price on mine so if it could just be taken out of the consideration? Thanks.

Fair enough. For what it is worth, I did like the effect. If you do care to complete it, be sure to share it!
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Xen3k on October 12, 2020, 09:16:38 pm
Results for Contest round #3: Seaside

First I would like to say that this was quite a challenge as I am not sure I have a completely firm grasp on how a card being a duration effects the power level of a card. I tried to explain my reasoning to the best of my ability when relevant, but some of this came down to my preference in design and my expectations from Dominion.

Now, all entries except one dealt directly with the theme of "cards whose abilities affect future turns", and all of them do fit the flavor of Seaside. There are some really innovative uses of mats and one card that put those coin tokens to use. I think all the entries have merit, and what I do criticize is intended to be constructive. I had real trouble only picking only three entries, so made it three runners up. So, without further preamble.


Dispatch by X-tra (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20521.msg855526#msg855526)
Quote
$5 - Action-Duration
Set aside a card from your hand. At the start of your next turn, trash that card and gain a card to your hand costing up to $2 more than it.

Seaside is lacking a remodeler, and this is a nifty one. I like this at $5, kind of like a suped-up Transmogriphy. No real criticisms here.


Drawbridge by LibraryAdventurer (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20521.msg855211#msg855211)
Quote
$3 - Action-Duration
+2 cards. At the start of your next turn, you may trash a card from your hand.
-
While this is in play, when another player plays an attack, its player may discard a card. If they don't, you are unaffected by the attack.

With so many aggressive Attack cards in Seaside, another Lighthouse may be warranted. There is also a lack of quality trashers, and this is definitely a good one. As worded, if multiple opponents have a Drawbridge in play I would have to discard a card for each Drawbridge I want to bypass. A very cool effect.


Exploration Ship by D782802859 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20521.msg855420#msg855420)
Quote
$4 - Action-Duration
Choose one: +2 Cards or +$2. At the start of your next turn, get the other choice.

This is a cool mash-up of Merchant Ship and a nerfed Wharf. Overlooking the redundancy of including this in Seaside, I think it is an interesting case study to try and gauge what the appropriate price for Merchant Ship would be. This being a middle ground between the two, and both being $5, the obvious take is that this should also be $5. I do think this should be $5, but my reasoning is more in line with the options this provides to the player and comparing it to newer contemporaries such as Den Of Sin. Though Den Of Sin is a bit better being non-terminal and gained to your hand, just playing Exploration Ship as a terminal Silver with a Den Of Sin effect attached still feels like a $5 cost card.


Ferryman by gambit05 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20521.msg855458#msg855458)
Quote
$4 - Action-Duration
Trash up to 2 cards from your hand and put that many Coin tokens on this.
At the start of your next turn: Remove the Coin tokens, for +$1 each.

A very nice trasher that puts the coin tokens to good use. Seaside does lack an effective trasher and this is quite good.


Frigate by grep (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20521.msg855437#msg855437)
Quote
$5 - Action-Attack-Duration
Now and at start of your next turn:
+$1
Each other player discards down to 3 cards.

Seaside has a lot of really aggressive attack cards, adding another is not unreasonable, but I would hesitate on doing that. The card is great though. I think it is priced correctly and the single coin a turn is appropriate as the consecutive Militias is pretty darn brutal. Good card.



Importer by NoMoreFun (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20521.msg855563#msg855563)
Quote
$6 - Action-Duration
At the start of your next turn, gain a card costing up to $5.
-
While this is in play, when you gain a card, you may put it in your hand.

This is the first of the Gainers from the submissions. These seems very strong, just with the gain-to-hand effect. While the Duration tag will slow it down, it seems to be an Artisan+. I think it would still be quite good even if it could only gain $4 cost cards. I think the gain-to-hand effect is the most interesting thing about the card, so I would hate to see that removed.


Port Inspector by aladdinstardust (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20521.msg855358#msg855358)
Quote
$4 - Action-Duration
+$2
At the start of your next turn, you may trash or gain to hand a card from your Island mat.
-
While this is in play, when you gain a card, put it on your Island mat.

Nice use of the Island mat. Another good defensive card to protect against the aggressively priced junking cards in Seaside. It is interesting how this slows down your deck if you are not careful. I do not know if I would get this early game if there were cheap +Buys in the game, but greening with a Port Inspector seems to be something I would want to try out. Probably going to try and bring this to my game group.


Royal Expedition by Jonatan Djurachkovitch (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20521.msg855169#msg855169)
Quote
$6 - Action-Duration
Now and at the start of your next turn, you may play an Action card from your hand twice.

The duration Throne Room I never knew I wanted! I think it is safely priced at $6, but may actually be ok at $5 due to the potential misses that can happen on the second turn and the slowness of it. As is, I really like the clean and simple design.


Shipbuilder by Aquila (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20521.msg855467#msg855467)
Quote
$4 - Action Duration
Choose one: gain a card onto your deck costing up to $3; or gain a card onto your deck costing up to $5.
At the start of your next turn, get the other choice.

Another gainer that can snag $5 cost cards, this time putting them on top of your deck. It is a really cool concept to have a single card gain two cards over the course of two turns, Gardens would love this card. I do think this is undercosted as-is. I could be gauging the nerf it being a Duration has on the card, but this appears to be an Artisan variant at least.


Shipyard by alion8me (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20521.msg855373#msg855373)
Quote
$4 - Action-Duration
+1 Action
At the start of your next turn, discard a card from your hand and gain a card costing up to $5.

The final generic gainer submitted, and this seems more reasonable at $4. This is like an alt version of Cobbler or Feast without the self trashing. In addition to being slow you also have to discard a card to gain a card. This is perfectly reasonable as it is, in my opinion.


Steamboat by grrgrrgrr (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20521.msg855449#msg855449)
Quote
$4 - Action-Duration
+5 Cards
+1 Buy
At the start of your next turn, discard 2 cards.

My first thought when I saw this was that it was a reverse Tactician. Now, Tactician gives more on the turn it triggers with the built in Village, but that comparison is still there, so seeing this at $4 is pretty surprising. Now I realize the drawback on Steamboat is pretty steep, but Tacticians can also be steep. I think Steamboat is a very Kingdom dependant card and in the right setup it is pretty bonkers. On average I think I would only buy a single one early to guarantee a nice 9 card double buy turn. If there were any hand-size Attack cards, I don't think I would get it. The design seems to really be leaning on the penalty of discarding two cards the next turn to balance its power, and I personally don't like this severe of a penalty as I would be afraid of turning the card into a noob-trap. The nice thing about Tactician is that it sets up a big turn that you can anticipate and plan out, Steamboat sets up a dead turn if you are not careful and that can feel bad. I personally would have liked this more at $5 drawing 4 cards and discarding 1 the next turn like a slow Council Room with a more manageable draw-back than current. As-is, I think it will be too cheap on average, and even at $5 its power level will fluctuate wildly based on the rest of the Kingdom because of that drawback.


Sunken Treasure by anordinaryman (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20521.msg855609#msg855609)
Quote
$5 - Action
+2 Cards
Choose one: take up to two cards from your Native Village Mat, putting one in your hand and the other on top of your deck; or put a gold from the Supply and the top card of your deck face up on your Native Village mat.

Very cool terminal draw card that uses the Native Village mat for storage. The potential interactions with Native Vilalge is really interesting. I think this is priced right at $5 as it is not always a Smithy, but gains you nice things off your mat when it is.


Waterfall by silverspawn (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20521.msg855530#msg855530)
Quote
$5 - Action
Discard up to 3 cards from your hand. +2 Cards per card discarded. Each other player may discard a card, to draw a card.

This does not really embody the "abilities affect future turns" theme of Seaside, and the filter role is being handled quite well by Warehouse (and Navigator I guess). This reminds me of a terminal Shepherd that allows you to discard more than Victory cards. I think the price at $5 is perfectly reasonable, being able to dig 6 cards deep is not to be scoffed at. I am not sure if the penalty of allowing each other player discard a card to draw is needed. Later in the game, especially if there is deck thinning in the Kingdom, I can see the possibility of it becoming more difficult to get the full effect from Waterfall.


Runners Up
Sunken Treasure by anordinaryman
Dispatch by X-tra
Ferryman by gambit05

WINNER
Port Inspector by aladdinstardust

I could have easily added a couple more or so to the runners up list! Thank you for participating!
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: aladdinstardust on October 12, 2020, 10:14:11 pm
Thank you to Xen3k for Judging! And congratulations to all the runners-up and submitters!

Contest round #4: Alchemy

I am actually quite excited to be judging this one, because I am one of those rare birds who enjoys this expansion.

The themes of Alchemy are Potion based cards and a focus on Action cards. Donald wanted to make cards that people would want multiple of since they were going to have a Potion in their deck - so lots of +Actions, cards that reward actions, and a Treasure that needs lots of cards to really shine. And apparently Herbalist. Hm.

I will be judging based on how well your card entices players to buy multiples, how it interacts with Actions (if it does), and I would also enjoy seeing ways in which your designs could make the Potion mechanic a bit more accessible.

I will give a 24-hour warning in 6 days and commence judging the following day.

Good luck to all designers!
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Jonatan Djurachkovitch on October 13, 2020, 01:13:12 am
In the future, when we've done all expansions we could continue with hypothetical crossover expansions, for example Adventures/Nocturne (night-reserve cards!), or Cornucopia/Hinterlands (when gain, if you have at least 5 differently named cards in play).
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Jonatan Djurachkovitch on October 13, 2020, 01:46:50 am
Here's my submission, might change it out later.
Quote
Homunculus
$3P - Action
+1 Action
+3 Cards
+1 Buy
Choose one: Trash a Treasure card from your hand, or trash this.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: gambit05 on October 13, 2020, 04:45:59 am
My submission:

(https://i.ibb.co/DfVkYhb/Astrologer.png)

Astrologer
$3P – Action
Quote

+1 Action

Choose one: Return a
Potion from your hand to
          the Supply, for +3 Cards;           
or +1 Buy and gain a
Potion to your hand.

Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: spineflu on October 13, 2020, 09:18:58 am
(https://trello-attachments.s3.amazonaws.com/5f1ee9fe8ac74e64e8e7eb58/5f1f25e8c890468102c64c0d/4e6b31fea673f3e3d1e16abc1f0c7a85/image.png)
Quote
Aonbarr • $4⚗ • Action
+4 Cards
You may trash a card from your hand.
You may return this to its pile for +2 Actions.
-
Instead of paying this card's cost, you may pay ⚗⚗; if you do, +1 Buy and +$2

an older card of mine but one explicitly for including in Alchemy. Gives a reason to have multiple potions. name is a mythological horse from irish mythology
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: aladdinstardust on October 15, 2020, 06:25:29 pm
In the future, when we've done all expansions we could continue with hypothetical crossover expansions, for example Adventures/Nocturne (night-reserve cards!), or Cornucopia/Hinterlands (when gain, if you have at least 5 differently named cards in play).

I just finished a set a little while ago called Dominion: Odyssey, which visits all the past sets and (most of the) mechanics. At first I thought those cards would fit perfectly for the theme of this thread, but then I realized that almost all of my cards overlapped sets. I think mixing expansions is super interesting, and it certainly opens up a lot of design possibility.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: herw on October 16, 2020, 01:35:21 am
Alchemist's Laboratory

(https://i.imgur.com/b1kJFsZ.png)
     
Quote
Alchemist's Laboratory $1P Action
+1 Card
+1 Action

Play a Potion or a Silver. If you do, +1 Card and gain a Gold.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: gambit05 on October 16, 2020, 02:40:03 am
Alchemist's Laboratory

(https://i.imgur.com/b1kJFsZ.png)
     
Quote
Alchemist's Laboratory $1P Action
+1 Card
+1 Action

Play a Potion or a Silver. If you do, +1 Card and gain a Gold.

I think a better wording is:
Quote
You may play a Potion or a Silver, for +1 Card and...

This avoids the cases when a player has a Potion or Silver in hand, but doesn't play it for whatever reason. The other players wouldn't know.
According to my understanding of the spirit of Alchemy is gaining a Gold a bit counter-productive. It would get more difficult to gain and chain Alchemist's Laboratory and/or to buy other cards. How about: "...for +1 Card and +1 Buy"?
+1 Buy seems to be underrepresented in Alchemy; and would fit with the somehow odd cost of Alchemist's Laboratory ($2P might be better anyway).
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: herw on October 16, 2020, 03:15:16 am
Alchemist's Laboratory

(https://i.imgur.com/b1kJFsZ.png)
     
Quote
Alchemist's Laboratory $1P Action
+1 Card
+1 Action

Play a Potion or a Silver. If you do, +1 Card and gain a Gold.

I think a better wording is:
Quote
You may play a Potion or a Silver, for +1 Card and...

This avoids the cases when a player has a Potion or Silver in hand, but doesn't play it for whatever reason. The other players wouldn't know.
According to my understanding of the spirit of Alchemy is gaining a Gold a bit counter-productive. It would get more difficult to gain and chain Alchemist's Laboratory and/or to buy other cards. How about: "...for +1 Card and +1 Buy"?
+1 Buy seems to be underrepresented in Alchemy; and would fit with the somehow odd cost of Alchemist's Laboratory ($2P might be better anyway).

I don't want to change to  a +1 buy because it would be too near to your nice suggestion Astrologer (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20521.msg855647#msg855647) and would have to have higher costs. So I stay with +1 Gold (historically the mainspring of Alchemists ;) ).
Why no +1 buy? I always play Alchemy with these basic cards:

(https://imgur.com/9oyeCcx.png) (https://imgur.com/x1BvJet.png)

Alchemist's Laboratory

(https://i.imgur.com/yjkxG8r.png)
     
Quote
Alchemist's Laboratory $1P Action
+1 Card
+1 Action

You may play a Potion or a Silver, for +1 Card and gain a Gold.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Aquila on October 16, 2020, 03:27:38 am
I've hardly ever played with alchemy, but here's something that seems to fit:
Quote
Catalyst - Action, PP cost.
+1 Action
+1 Buy

Play any number of Treasures from your hand. + $1 per Potion you played.
Draw until you have 6 cards in hand.
Alchemy probably doesn't need more draw though.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: gambit05 on October 16, 2020, 03:59:53 am
I don't want to change to  a +1 buy because it would be too near to your nice suggestion Astrologer (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20521.msg855647#msg855647) and would have to have higher costs. So I stay with +1 Gold (historically the mainspring of Alchemists ;) ).
Why no +1 buy? I always play Alchemy with these basic cards:

(https://imgur.com/9oyeCcx.png) (https://imgur.com/x1BvJet.png)

Alchemist's Laboratory

(https://i.imgur.com/yjkxG8r.png)
     
Quote
Alchemist's Laboratory $1P Action
+1 Card
+1 Action

You may play a Potion or a Silver, for +1 Card and gain a Gold.

Honestly, I totally forgot that Astrologer gives an optional +1 Buy.
Despite that, I can't see what argues against +1 Buy in relation to your Fan-made Victory cards.
Also, keep in mind that this contest is about presenting a card that fits to the official Alchemy expansion, not to Fan-made cards that nobody else uses.
I am not sure about the English wording, i.e. whether it should be:
"...and to gain a Gold."

I've hardly ever played with alchemy, but here's something that seems to fit:
Quote
Catalyst - Action, PP cost.
+1 Action
+1 Buy

Play any number of Treasures from your hand. + $1 per Potion you played.
Draw until you have 6 cards in hand.
Alchemy probably doesn't need more draw though.

That looks interesting.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: silverspawn on October 16, 2020, 04:02:05 am
It should be 'to' gain a gold.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: infangthief on October 16, 2020, 04:59:54 am
Here's my submission, might change it out later.
Quote
Homunculus
$3P - Action
+1 Action
+3 Cards
+1 Buy
Choose one: Trash a Treasure card from your hand, or trash this.

I think normally "Choose" means you can choose an option even if you then fail to be able to do it.
Is that the intention here? Can I choose the "trash a Treasure card" option, then say, oh I don't have any Treasure cards in my hand?
Or is the intention closer to Death Cart?
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: herw on October 16, 2020, 05:16:46 am
ok, ok, ok ...

Alchemist's Laboratory

(https://i.imgur.com/88u7bIC.png)     
Quote
Alchemist's Laboratory $2P Action
+1 Card
+1 Action

You may play a Potion or a Silver for +1 Card and +1 Buy.

Maybe that the costs of $2P are too high? ... because you have to have potion or silver on your hand too.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Xen3k on October 17, 2020, 12:52:59 pm
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50689564101_1b5eb49827_b.jpg)

Quote
School Courier - $5
Action
+1 Action
Trash a card from your hand. Choose one: gain a Card costing up to $2 more; or gain a card costing up to (P) more; or gain to your hand a Potion and a Copper.

My group does not play with Alchemy or any custom Potion cards, so this is gonna be difficult for me. Decided to go with something like Apprentice where it does not cost Potion, but does interact with the mechanic. It gives an alternate way to obtain Potion cards, but does not make it easy. Notably, I did not want it to be able to get rid of starting Copper, so it is weaker then most every other remodeler. Not sure if this is completely balanced, or something people who use Alchemy would want in the set, but I enjoyed working on it.

Edit: Changing it so that you can trash Copper. Not sure if that would make it too good.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Jack Rudd on October 17, 2020, 01:32:19 pm
School Courier - $5
Action
+1 Action
Trash a card from your hand costing more than $0. Choose one: gain a Card costing up to $2 more; or gain a card costing up to ^ more; or gain to your hand a Potion and a Copper.
Works nicely with Apothecary, because you can turn your opening Estates into Apothecaries, and you're less worried than normal about having lots of Coppers. Its other good within-Alchemy Estate-targets are Scrying Pool and University.

Aside from that, probably a little weak - you've only got three targets in your starting deck, and trashing a good card from hand to get a better one in your discard pile has to be thought about carefully.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Xen3k on October 17, 2020, 02:48:44 pm
School Courier - $5
Action
+1 Action
Trash a card from your hand costing more than $0. Choose one: gain a Card costing up to $2 more; or gain a card costing up to ^ more; or gain to your hand a Potion and a Copper.
Works nicely with Apothecary, because you can turn your opening Estates into Apothecaries, and you're less worried than normal about having lots of Coppers. Its other good within-Alchemy Estate-targets are Scrying Pool and University.

Aside from that, probably a little weak - you've only got three targets in your starting deck, and trashing a good card from hand to get a better one in your discard pile has to be thought about carefully.

Do you think removing the restriction requiring you trash a card costing more than $0 is warranted? I am mainly concerned of the potential to change Coppers into Vineyards or something. Not sure if that is something people would want to do, but still.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: spineflu on October 17, 2020, 07:31:43 pm
(https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/p1080x2048/121477700_680866362555619_5493080732939066880_n.png?_nc_cat=106&_nc_sid=ae9488&_nc_ohc=BEClLZA7gjwAX_849ip&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-2.xx&oh=091669689b2e513248ece72008eb1abd&oe=5FB0BB6A)

Quote
School Courier - $5
Action
+1 Action
Trash a card from your hand. Choose one: gain a Card costing up to $2 more; or gain a card costing up to (P) more; or gain to your hand a Potion and a Copper.

My group does not play with Alchemy or any custom Potion cards, so this is gonna be difficult for me. Decided to go with something like Apprentice where it does not cost Potion, but does interact with the mechanic. It gives an alternate way to obtain Potion cards, but does not make it easy. Notably, I did not want it to be able to get rid of starting Copper, so it is weaker then most every other remodeler. Not sure if this is completely balanced, or something people who use Alchemy would want in the set, but I enjoyed working on it.

Edit: Changing it so that you can trash Copper. Not sure if that would make it too good.

This does have an issue where having just this card in an otherwise no-alchemy game makes two of its options impossible to complete - no potion-cost cards makes for no potions in the supply. Otherwise, I'd say it's a little worse than most TfB cards, which isn't really the kind of thing you'd want in alchemy.

Lemme know if you wanna play a game or two on dominion.games with alchemy cards, get a little more used to them, I've got a subscription, just drop a dm.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: grep on October 18, 2020, 12:09:36 pm
Quote
(https://i.ibb.co/ncVrL6b/image.png)
Distillery
P - Action
+1 Buy
Trash a card from hand. Gain a Potion or a card costing up to $2 more than the trashed card.

Alchemy's missing Remodel, with a possibility to jump from Copper to $5-6 in two steps. +Buy shines when there are other Potion-cost cards in the kingdom.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: aladdinstardust on October 18, 2020, 08:12:06 pm
24 Hour Notice!
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: D782802859 on October 18, 2020, 08:33:35 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/a9llWnd.png?1)
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: majiponi on October 18, 2020, 11:04:40 pm
Humanoid
cost $6P - Action - Duration
Set aside a non-Duration, non-Command Action card from the Supply costing up to $4. At the start of each of your turns, play that Action, leaving there.

A Prince variant that always works. You don't have to worry a hand with no other Action. King's Courting is not so good ; you can never use King's Court for an expensive Action.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: herw on October 19, 2020, 01:05:23 am
Alchemist's Laboratory

(https://i.imgur.com/DbhbSVS.png)     
Quote
Alchemist's Laboratory $1P Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy

You may play a Potion or a Silver for +1 Card.

I think it shouldn't be only a cantrip without potion or silver in hand. So you get always +1 Buy. Costs are now $1P.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: aladdinstardust on October 19, 2020, 08:40:17 pm
That's time in the round!

I will get to judging shortly!
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: aladdinstardust on October 19, 2020, 10:23:22 pm
Jonatan Djurachkovitch
Quote
Homunculus
$3P - Action
+1 Action
+3 Cards
+1 Buy
Choose one: Trash a Treasure card from your hand, or trash this.

Three cards and an action is a very powerful ability, and +Buy is also super useful on an engine piece. It even trashes Coppers and eventually your Potion!
I imagine that in practice, this is a bit overpowered. I don't think you could ever really skip this on a board - it feels like Sauna/Avanto as a single card with +Buy.
Perhaps it could trash itself or a Potion instead of any treasure. I think that would make for some very interesting decision-making.

gambit05
Quote
Astrologer
$3P – Action
+1 Action
Choose one: Return a Potion from your hand to the Supply, for +3 Cards; or +1 Buy and gain a Potion to your hand.

Here is another $3P for three cards and an action, but with the Potion "trashing." Also has the option of +Buy, but at the cost of possibly junking yourself - though maybe it wins you the Vineyard split. I really like this, and would definitely like to playtest it. Seems both balanced and fun.

spineflu
Quote
Aonbarr • $4P • Action
+4 Cards
You may trash a card from your hand.
You may return this to its pile for +2 Actions.
-
Instead of paying this card's cost, you may pay PP; if you do, +1 Buy and +$2

The top part of this card seems certainly overpowered. I love the idea of returning a drawer for +Action, but even without that, +4 Cards and trashing is super strong. I think you'd probably need to bring that down to +2 Cards or up the cost by at least P.
The bottom part of this card is absolutely wild. And I love it. Gaining a card for two potions and then getting another buy and money is fantastic. Makes those double Potion hands something to actually shoot for. I really enjoy the creativity here.

Aquila
Quote
Catalyst - Action, PP cost.
+1 Action
+1 Buy

Play any number of Treasures from your hand. + $1 per Potion you played.
Draw until you have 6 cards in hand.

This is a very interesting. Double Potion cost is super tricky to pull off, but that is a very powerful ability, and it rewards you for having those extra Potions in your deck. I feel like you want multiple of these for sure, but you also want lots of Treasures. And, of course, it plays Treasures during your action phase, so shenanigans will occur from time to time (Capitalism loves this!) You could actually forgo the Treasures and just use this as a Lab, which gives the card versatility.
The only thing I might change is to remove the +Buy. A Lab with upside already seems powerful enough, though never having played a card costing PP, that +Buy might be fully warranted.

Xen3k
Quote
School Courier - $5
Action
+1 Action
Trash a card from your hand. Choose one: gain a Card costing up to $2 more; or gain a card costing up to (P) more; or gain to your hand a Potion and a Copper.

For someone who doesn't play with Alchemy, you've made a very fine card! It is a little clunky that it gains Potion - maybe change that bit to "Treasure costing $4 or less?" Allows it to grab potions, but also Silver, Talisman, Quarry, etc. Makes it into a slightly different Mine effect if you trash Copper, but I think that's fine for a 5-cost.
The gaining of a Potion card is fantastic. I can already feel the excitement I would have when this and a Potion-cost card showed up together.

grep
Quote
Distillery
P - Action
+1 Buy
Trash a card from hand. Gain a Potion or a card costing up to $2 more than the trashed card.

Another interesting card, which also remodels. I like that it gets you to Province from Copper faster than a traditional Remodel. However, it isn't as good at trashing copies of itself, so there's balance there. The +Buy could be deceptively useful if you have enough other things going on.

D782802859
Quote
Alkahest - Action - $5
+3 Cards
The first time you play a Treasure costing $4 or more this turn, +$2.

A very interesting spin on making Potions worth $. The only downside is that you don't really want a lot of these, and it doesn't specifically tie into potions. It doesn't really fit into Alchemy in general, although I would love for this to be a real card. It makes a lot of expensive Treasures better, which I really like.

majiponi
Quote
Humanoid
cost $6P - Action - Duration
Set aside a non-Duration, non-Command Action card from the Supply costing up to $4. At the start of each of your turns, play that Action, leaving there.

This is very cool, and certainly worth the 6P. I've always had a soft spot for Prince, so this is just the sort of card I'd love to have in a set. It's also a slightly better Captain, but it cost P more, so it should be. A simple and useful design. Nice!

herw
Quote
Alchemist's Laboratory $1P Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy

You may play a Potion or a Silver for +1 Card.

I appreciate all the work and thought you've put into this! However, I think your earlier version might have been more balanced. I am comparing this to Alchemist, which is a Lab with upside if you have a Potion. This is Lab with upside if you have a Potion or a Silver, and it costs $2 less. I understand what you mean about not wanting it to be a fairly useless card without a specific Treasure in hand, but I think the upside is certainly worth the gamble.

Alchemist's Laboratory $2P Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
You may play a Potion or a Silver for +1 Card and +1 Buy.

This is the version I most prefer, and I think it would be a very fun card to play.



I am so glad that I can say with absolutely sincerity that you guys made some amazing cards here, and I am finding it difficult to choose a winner.
However, a decision must be made, so I'm going with:

Astrologer
by
gambit05


Runners-up:
I could probably just put "everyone" here, and it would be accurate.
But, concessions must be made for contests, so I will name the following:
Catalyst, Aqulia (I very much want to play this card.)
School Courier, Xen3k (Turning non-Potion cards into Potion cards is absolutely something I want to do now.)
Alchemist's Laboratory (version 2), herw (Not your official entry, but you posted it, and I really liked it.)

Thank you to everyone for submitting!!!!!
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: gambit05 on October 20, 2020, 04:45:15 am
Thank you very much aladdinstardust for your efforts in judging a bunch of really nice Alchemy-based Fan cards. I had the feeling that many of them are worth being the contest winner and certainly interesting and fun enough to further work on them and play with them.  Congratulations to the runner ups as well!

I suggest we revisit Alchemy in this contest series, maybe after Dark Ages or Guilds, as the official Alchemy expansion was originally thought to be released much later than it actually was. Especially cards that don’t have a Potion cost themselves, but interact with such cards and/or with Potions look very interesting and in my opinion, a couple of them would be “required” for a fictive large Alchemy expansion.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: gambit05 on October 20, 2020, 04:57:46 am
Contest Round 5 – Prosperity

The Prosperity expansion has the following themes/mechanics: Treasure cards, cards that interact with Treasures, expensive cards, cards that give Victory point (VP) tokens. http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Prosperity
There are a few more, i.e. “unusual” costs and non-attacking cards with player interactions. Feel free to incorporate any of those mechanics into your Fan card. Please avoid any mechanics introduced in official expansions released after Prosperity. Furthermore, a card giving choices a la Intrigue cards is totally fine (though not as the sole mechanic), a Duration would be out of place.

Criteria for judging:
1. Acts like a typical Prosperity card
2. Innovative concept
3. Fun to play with
4. Balanced

If you are not sure whether a certain idea or a detail of a card fits or not, don’t hesitate to ask when posting or before.

Deadline for submission will be some time on 27. Oct. 2020 with a 24 hours reminder before.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: majiponi on October 20, 2020, 10:38:38 am
Quote
Minister
cost $5 - Treasure
+$2
+2 Buys
You may put your deck into your discard pile.
---
When you buy this, play it.

Mint has an on-buy effect. An expensive Travelling Fair which you can expand. Let's start with Minister-Goons!
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: spineflu on October 20, 2020, 12:46:05 pm
gonna bust out my fav underutilized component in prosperity, the trade route mat, for a bridge variant, because what's more on-theme for prosperity than making money go further?
(https://trello-attachments.s3.amazonaws.com/5f734c336e86cd37f111e3d7/5f8f13b3a6431980f6cc1dd0/b017a6680fc47031f61bd7993e7bcf88/image.png)
Quote
Shipping Lane • $3 • Action
+1 Buy
You may gain a Copper to your hand. If you do, cards cost $1 less per Coin token on the Trade Route mat.
-
Setup: Add a Coin token to each Victory Supply pile; move that token to the Trade Route mat when a card is gained from the pile.

setup instructions are the same as trade route; given that i can't change the wording on Trade Route for this, when both are in the supply, you only do one coin token per victory pile.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: silverspawn on October 20, 2020, 02:06:42 pm
Prosperity has big rebuilding, big throning,  various flavors of big money, but no big draw. Alas,

(https://i.ibb.co/rcSMJMG/Royal-Escort.png)
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: GendoIkari on October 20, 2020, 02:10:17 pm
Prosperity has big rebuilding, big throning,  various flavors of big money, but no big draw. Alas,

(https://i.ibb.co/rcSMJMG/Royal-Escort.png)

Gives a needed new use for (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/9/92/VP.png/16px-VP.png) tokens (3 cards isn't enough for a new mechanic). And gives extra incentives to buy Provinces even though the game is more likely to be a Colony game. I like.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: majiponi on October 20, 2020, 05:57:40 pm
Prosperity has big rebuilding, big throning,  various flavors of big money, but no big draw. Alas,

(https://i.ibb.co/rcSMJMG/Royal-Escort.png)

Gives a needed new use for (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/9/92/VP.png/16px-VP.png) tokens (3 cards isn't enough for a new mechanic). And gives extra incentives to buy Provinces even though the game is more likely to be a Colony game. I like.

It needs to give incentives to end game.  KC-KC-RE-RE (+12vp) will be the optimal strategy too often.  Goons piles out piles.  Bishop needs fuel.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: NoMoreFun on October 20, 2020, 07:07:38 pm
Quicksilver
Treasure - $6
Worth $1
At the start of clean up, exchange a treasure you would discard from play for a treasure costing up to $6 more than it.

I think Mine would work better in Prosperity given the better treasures on offer in the set. So here's a super-Mine that can turn Copper into Gold or any of the other special treasures on offer, and Silver (and up) into Platinum. Yes this is very similar to "Ore" which I submitted for the "Fix Mine" competition.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Xen3k on October 20, 2020, 11:00:49 pm
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50689644412_24ab890371_b.jpg)

Quote
Royal Foundries - $7
Action
+1 Action
Discard a card. Gain a card to your hand costing less than it. If you would gain a card costing more than this, instead trash this to gain that card to your hand.

A non-terminal gainer, especially one that can trash itself for a Province or Platinum, seems like a card worth $7. I am not sure if this is too strong or not. It can certainly snow-ball your late game. I had a terminal version that gave an Extra VP token if you gain a VP card off it. Could change this out for that if this version is deemed too good. Feedback is welcome.

Edit: Adjusted the wording so in order to gain a card costing more than Royal Foundries you must trash Royal Foundries. My understanding is that if you fail to trash it due to any kind of tracking shenanigans you will fail to gain a card. Let me know if that fixes the issues presented below.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: majiponi on October 20, 2020, 11:13:14 pm
(https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/p1080x2048/122460500_824318911720271_8686722221753868056_n.png?_nc_cat=102&_nc_sid=ae9488&_nc_ohc=Vf696y_ejjsAX_CL6Gs&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-2.xx&oh=1ef474ba5c287b6b39e00ec08112cac3&oe=5FB35B27)

Quote
Royal Foundries - $7
Action
+1 Action
Discard a card. Gain a card to your hand costing less than it. If you gained a card costing more than this, trash this or the gained card.

A non-terminal gainer, especially one that can trash itself for a Province or Platinum, seems like a card worth $7. I am not sure if this is too strong or not. It can certainly snow-ball your late game. I had a terminal version that gave an Extra VP token if you gain a VP card off it. Could change this out for that if this version is deemed too good. Feedback is welcome.

Discard Colony for Platinum, revealing Watchtower to topdeck, trying to trash that Platinum, and fail. Is it broken?
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Xen3k on October 20, 2020, 11:15:45 pm
(https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/p1080x2048/122460500_824318911720271_8686722221753868056_n.png?_nc_cat=102&_nc_sid=ae9488&_nc_ohc=Vf696y_ejjsAX_CL6Gs&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-2.xx&oh=1ef474ba5c287b6b39e00ec08112cac3&oe=5FB35B27)

Quote
Royal Foundries - $7
Action
+1 Action
Discard a card. Gain a card to your hand costing less than it. If you gained a card costing more than this, trash this or the gained card.

A non-terminal gainer, especially one that can trash itself for a Province or Platinum, seems like a card worth $7. I am not sure if this is too strong or not. It can certainly snow-ball your late game. I had a terminal version that gave an Extra VP token if you gain a VP card off it. Could change this out for that if this version is deemed too good. Feedback is welcome.

Discard Colony for Platinum, revealing Watchtower to topdeck, trying to trash that Platinum, and fail. Is it broken?

Would you not have to trash the Royal Foundries at that point? The wording on the "if you gain a card costing more than this" caveat is important, and if there are ways around it the card is pretty much a failure.

Edit: I would have the player just straight up trash the Royal Foundries, but I do not want to run into the same sort of issue on losing track of it.

Edit#2: Changed the wording in the original post. Hopefully this corrects the issues.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Aquila on October 21, 2020, 04:53:09 am
Quote
Racecourse - Action, $6 cost.
+3 Cards
You may trash a card from your hand. If you do, remove the token from its pile (if it's there) for +1VP per $1 the trashed card costs.
-
Setup: put a coin token on each supply pile.
This sets up a race to be the first to trash a card from each pile. It has to use tokens because of Lurker and Treasurer, and I figure it will be self-intuitive that this and trade route hold one coin token each on the Victory piles (the wording implies that to me, but I may be wrong).
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: silverspawn on October 21, 2020, 05:40:42 am
It needs to give incentives to end game.  KC-KC-RE-RE (+12vp) will be the optimal strategy too often.  Goons piles out piles.  Bishop needs fuel.

I'm not sure about this, but I don't expect that will commonly happen.

KC-RE is a 2-card combo, so it will appear as often as Bishop-Fortress. But even though Bishop-fortress makes more VP per turn and doesn't draw, I've never actually built the pure 4*Fortress 4*Bishop deck

In practice, if you have a deck of one province, RE's, villages and money, you will always benefit from buying more villages if nothing else. So one player will have at least 5 villages before both are incentivized to keep a static deck. But if you have 5 villages, you will want more than 2 REs since the chance to draw them dead is small and it increases your VP/turn. Then, if you have more than 2 cards drawing 4 and 5 villages, you'll reliably draw your deck and it won't really hurt you to add further green cards.

If  you actually don't have villages but just KC... maybe... but you probably want more RE's and more KCs if nothing else, then 2 piles are empty... I think you can construct a board where the optimum would be a stationary deck, but I think it'll be very rare. <5% of games where RE is present, maybe <1%.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: segura on October 21, 2020, 08:02:06 am
Such supposed Golden decks cannot emerge organically. You must have had the payload to buy 4 $7s and 1 $8. Those Coins and Buys do not magically disappear from your deck and you certainly don’t trash all you payload just to repeat a loop while you likely can afford to buy a Colony or two Provinces per turn, while still being able to get the VPs.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: D782802859 on October 21, 2020, 08:30:15 am
(https://i.imgur.com/6mnMeVO.png?1)

A card that interacts with Prosperity's litany of expensive cards, and with expensive card in other sets.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Vengil on October 21, 2020, 11:28:09 am
"Heir" is a Good idea for an village.  :)
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: anordinaryman on October 21, 2020, 11:43:16 am
(https://files.coding4.coffee/selif/4oup0lns.png)

Quote
Bellows - Treasure - $4
$1
+1 Card
Trash a card from your hand. Discard one or more cards to gain a Treasure costing exactly $1 more per card discarded.

This design came when I was trying to fix Mine. It's another treasure remodeler! This one is a little bit more flexible, it allows you to turn any card into a treasure -- however you have to pay by discarding cards. It has the discard "one or more" such that it is weaker than Junk Dealer. (however, even without a minimum discard clause, it is worse at Junk Dealing because drawing a card is a lot weaker in your Buy phase than in your Action phase). A card like this should cost 2,4, or 5 so it fits in one of the gaps so you can gain it in between coppers, silvers, and golds.

I realized this fit will in Prosperity. It's a treasure that helps you gain more treasurers. When you're done with your loan you could turn it into a Talisman. When you're on to victory cards, you could trash your Quarry into a gold.

This card also let's you trash curses and coppers from your hand without gaining anything, since there aren't any treasures that cost 1 (without cost reduction).

Open to feedback. The one question is whether this should be "costs exactly" or "costs at least." At least means it doesn't need to have any minimum discard because it no longer can thin your deck. I do like that this card can non-terminally thin your deck though, something that Mine could use.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: anordinaryman on October 21, 2020, 11:45:46 am
(https://i.imgur.com/6mnMeVO.png?1)

A card that interacts with Prosperity's litany of expensive cards, and with expensive card in other sets.

I like this a lot.


I also think it needs to draw only one card rather than all the ones that are expensive, otherwise the "hit" state is incredibly good.

I recommend that this discard the rest of the cards rather than put back in any order. This simplifies it a bit, and speeds it up. It also weakens it in the "miss" state, which I think is good since the "hit" state is VERY good (even if you take my suggestion, fetching one expensive card from top three is really good) It also means that a hand full of Heirs isn't useless with three cheap cards on top, and it behaves more like the occasional village.


Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: silverspawn on October 21, 2020, 12:03:39 pm
Discarding them strengthens the miss state since the cards of cost <5$ are weaker than average. But I think generally these types of cards topdeck as a way to nerf them, and specifically make them less mass-able.

The most relevant comparison here is Seer, which makes me think this is ok as-is.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: grep on October 21, 2020, 12:14:32 pm
(https://i.ibb.co/8DcrSg1/image.png)
Patrimony
$4 - Treasure
$1
You may discard a Victory card for +$2 and +1VP
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: spineflu on October 21, 2020, 12:19:47 pm
Discarding them strengthens the miss state since the cards of cost <5$ are weaker than average. But I think generally these types of cards topdeck as a way to nerf them, and specifically make them less mass-able.

The most relevant comparison here is Seer, which makes me think this is ok as-is.

have it discard actions + treasures, topdeck the rest. make that nerf explicit.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: LibraryAdventurer on October 22, 2020, 01:03:27 am
Quote
Heirloom Jewelry
$6 - Treasure
+$2.
You may discard 2 cards for +$2.
This turn when you play a Gold, +1 Card.
For each 2 Golds you play, you next Heirloom Jewelry makes $4.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: gambit05 on October 26, 2020, 08:55:02 am

Deadline for submission is tomorrow 27. Oct. at 9 am Forum time.

Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: gambit05 on October 27, 2020, 11:13:02 am

Assessment Round 5 - Cards for the Prosperity expansion

A note to my assessment first: I have mocked up all cards that didn't have an image and then evaluated them twice on two separated days and afterwards averaged the outcomes. For each criterion as listed 7 days ago, a score from 1-5 was given. Then I picked the top 5 cards and evaluated them again side by side. With this approach I noticed that Treasures scored a bit lower for the “Fun” aspect; I guess this is almost by nature, as it is more difficult to design an exciting only-Treasure card (a Hybrid wouldn’t fit well to Prosperity) than a powerful Action card. On the other hand, it is easier to design a Treasure that looks “Prosperity-like”.

Now to the individual cards:

Minister by majiponi

Minister
cost $5 - Treasure
Quote
+$2
+2 Buys
You may put your deck
into your discard pile.
---
When you buy this, play it.

Minister is a Treasure that immediately reminded me of the Chancellor/Woodcutter variants submitted by LastFootnote and silverspawn for the first round of this contests, i.e. Fan-made cards for the Base set, and more so even because of its name. Looking a bit closer, it is comparable in function and strength with Spices from Renaissance. The interesting part is the on-buy effect, which is quite unique (some Night cards allow this indirectly), but aside of Mint, the an on-buy effect looks rather like a Hinterlands mechanic. In the case of Minister, this mechanic pushes the current Buy phase with 2 extra buys and $2. This is helpful for getting lots of cheap cards when needed, e.g. Peddlers and later in the game it threatens a sudden ending by 3-piling. It looks versatile and balanced.



Shipping Lane by spineflu

Shipping Lane
• $3 • Action
Quote
+1 Buy
You may gain a Copper to your hand.
If you do, cards cost $1 less per Coin
token on the Trade Route mat.
-
Setup: Add a Coin token to each
Victory Supply pile; move that token
to the Trade Route mat when a card
is gained from the pile.

Shipping Lane extends the Trade Route mechanic, i.e. the first gain of a Victory card from any such pile in a Kingdom increases the strength of the card for all players. While Trade Route allows some trashing, Shipping Lane junks the player for the desired effect. Despite Kingdoms with attractive Victory cards, this may happen relatively late in the game. Then suddenly it can become interesting, although I expect it to be slow in most cases. Without efficient trashing available, I would prefer Trade Route because of its trashing ability, whereas with strong trashing, Shipping Lane could be the better choice. The card looks innovative as it uses a unique mechanic in a different way without complicating it. It can be fun to have it in certain Kingdoms, and to have an impact late in the game.



Royal Escort by silverspawn

Royal Escort
$7 – Action
Quote
+4 Cards
You may discard a Province, for +2 VP.

Royal Escort is an expensive card that provides VPs, two of the criteria for a typical Prosperity card. In addition, it fills a gap by providing strong draw, and thus looks like an innovative addition to Prosperity. To come to full power is not easy to achieve, when compared to other expensive Prosperity cards, such as Goons and King’s Court. This however makes sense since the benefit can be immense. While I would prefer those official cards for a first purchase of a high-cost card, I would certainly buy Royal Escort, and if it is just for its drawing capacity. Some people criticized that infinite loops are possible as there is no mechanic towards ending the game (e.g. +Buy, trashing, gaining). However, this is theoretically also possible with Monument (though at least it encourages buying cards by giving +$2), a much cheaper card which needs much less support. Overall, an innovative Prosperity-like card that is likely useful and fun to play with.



Quicksilver by NoMoreFun

Quicksilver
Treasure - $6
Quote
Worth $1
At the start of clean up, exchange
a treasure you would discard from
play for a treasure costing up to
$6 more than it.

The first thing I thought was “nice name, but whoa what is that?”. Quicksilver is an expensive Treasure that cares for Treasures and in that sense has the features of a typical Prosperity card. It offers a competitive Big Money strategy. Players going this route, want to hit $6 as fast as possible to buy their first Quicksilver, e.g. by opening with Silver and/or a strong terminal draw if possible. Once in deck, Quicksilver looks like a Money-Rat to me. It transforms Copper to more Quicksilver, Silver and Quicksilver to Platinum (if available). It can even exchange itself (not only other copies) for Platinum. I think it is very strong and players favoring Big-Money games would certainly like it. However, in my opinion it would be better balanced if it has some restrictions, e.g. exchanging Treasures from hand.



Royal Foundries by Xen3k

Royal Foundries
 $7 – Action
Quote
+1 Action
Discard a card. Gain a card to your
hand costing less than it. If you
would gain a card costing more
than this, instead trash this to gain
that card to your hand.

Royal Foundries is an expensive Action card that functions as a Gainer in an innovative way and thus looks like a Prosperity card. One problem is that there are already two Prosperity cards with exactly the same cost, i.e. Expand and Forge, which have a similar function. I think Royal Foundries is quite tricky to play. It’s best use is probably to get an early Province (or Peddler), maybe Gold before that, and then gain all the nice Engine pieces, including more Royal Foundries. King’s Courting it could get wild, but that is the problem with King’s Court and not Royal Foundries. The fact that it is non-terminal even does not interfere with building and running a powerful engine and thus Royal Foundries is helpful at all stages of the game. Even when going for Provinces, it can be used for a self-sacrifice to get a final edge. The card looks interesting and fun to play with. Is it balanced? No idea, but for play testing, I would certainly start exactly with this version.



Racecourse by Aquila

Racecourse
Action, $6 cost
Quote
+3 Cards
You may trash a card from your hand.
If you do, remove the token from its
pile (if it's there) for +1VP per $1 the
trashed card costs.
-
Setup: put a coin token on each supply pile.

Racecourse is an expensive Smithy combined with a trashing ability that can provide VP tokens if the trashed card is the first of the respective Supply pile. This uses an innovative variant of the Trade Route mechanic; the instructions are clear by the way. Racecourse lives up for its name as it sets up a race for players to trash the first copy of a card from any Supply pile. One problem with this are Estates, which are the preferred target that give a considerable VP swing. It also looks like this could end up in a trash-orgy, as for example trashing a Peddler first, or just a Province, would give a whopping 8 VP that do not even clog the deck. Racecourse will likely often split a game in two parts. First, players try to gain as many different cards of value as possible and to trash them before their opponents do. Once that dust has settled, in the second step, players will build a regular engine with the help of the cards that survived the first phase. This could be fun for a few games, but could be too centralising in the long run. Giving +1 VP for 2$ of the cost (like Bishop does) could be a less radical option to consider; or even just +1 VP no matter what the card costs. Another, independent possibility is to exclude the basic Victory piles.



Heir by D782802859

Heir
$3 -  Action
Quote
+2 Actions
Reveal the top three cards
of your deck. Add the cards
that cost $5 or more to your
hand and put the rest back
in any order.

Heir is a cheap Action card that looks for expensive cards in the deck. It adds a nice and unused aspect to the themes of Prosperity. It functionally resembles a reverse Seer of Renaissance; easy to get, but more difficult to power it up. With strong trashing and/or deck inspection it could easily become a centre piece of engines. Looks like a fun card, helpful in a lot of Kingdoms and a great potential to shine. It is even helpful late in the game to fish all the expensive Victory cards before a Smithy or a second Heir draws some useful cards. Given its low cost I wonder whether just +1 Action would be better for balancing.



Bellows by anordinaryman

Bellows
Treasure - $4
Quote
$1
+1 Card
Trash a card from your hand.
Discard one or more cards to
gain a Treasure costing exactly
$1 more per card discarded.

Bellows is another Treasure with a Mine-type ability where trashing and Treasure gaining are separated. In this way, it thematically fits to Prosperity. My first impression was that this is a variant of Jack of all Trades of Hinterlands, with all the different abilities it has. It is a Copper that draws a card, which is helpful whatever that card is (allowing either playing, discarding for $, or trashing it). The mandatory trashing is interesting. Early on it is a welcome ability, but later on it can limit the usefulness of Bellows, especially since it interferes with getting the benefit from discarding. On the other hand, if a player does not want to use Bellows for a Big Money deck, they can use it for some trashing and can quite easily avoid gaining more Treasures by just discarding the required minimum of one card. A Big Money player on the other hand has to discard quite a lot for gaining valuable Treasures. I am not sure whether that was the intention, but I think it is a bit too weak for a competitive Big Money strategy.  Gaining the Treasure to hand could be an attractive alternative, maybe for a cost of $5.



Patrimony by grep

Patrimony
$4 - Treasure
Quote
$1
You may discard a Victory card
for +$2 and +1VP

Patrimony is a cheap Treasure that relies on Victory cards for its effect, i.e. to turn itself into a VP producing Gold. VP gaining looks a bit suspicious at first glance, though not spending the $3 would look quite crazy. Functionally, Patrimony is similar to Shepherd/Pasture from Nocturne, with the notable difference that Patrimony can permanently score VPs throughout the game. Since most games start with Estates, this will, almost risk-free, lead to a push towards high payload accompanied with VP scoring. It is certainly interesting and relatively unique and fits to Prosperity, but it appears to be too easy to make it more powerful than even Plunder, a $5 cost bottom card of a split pile from Empires.



Heirloom Jewelry by LibraryAdventurer

Heirloom Jewelry
$6 - Treasure
Quote
+$2
You may discard 2 cards for +$2.
This turn when you play a Gold,
+1 Card.

Heirloom Jewelry is an expensive Treasure that specifically interacts with another Treasure and thus thematically fits to Prosperity. Interestingly, to achieve the full benefit, it requires Gold, which has exactly the same cost and thus compete which Heirloom Jewelry. On the other hand, it should be fairly easy to get at least $3 out of Heirloom Jewelry, e.g. by discarding a Copper and an Estate. Without fast trashing, I would prefer this over Gold, but so would I for most cards costing $6 or and even $5. For a maximum effect, a player needs several Golds and Heirloom Jewelries, and even then, slimming the deck to play them more often interferes with the discarding part, which is not a bad thing balance-wise. In this respect, the +1 Card is also interesting, since it can provide fodder for the next Heirloom Jewelry or, if a Treasure was drawn, can be played immediately, at the risk of dead drawing a key Action card. In summary, it looks like an interesting concept that provides two possibilities to upgrade the card to a Gold+ without getting too crazy.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As I have mentioned at the beginning, I evaluated the cards 2-3 times. I always ended up with Royal Escort and Heir as the top 2 cards. Royal Escort scored a bit higher for “Prosperity like” as it is an expensive card that provides a new and innovative way for VP scoring, though Heir scored high for this criterion too. Heir scored better for “Balance”, not necessarily because I know that it is better balanced, but because Royal Escort has the potential problem of infinite VP scoring. For Heir it is difficult to figure out without play testing whether it is overpowered as is, but if there is a problem it could be easily nerfed. Both cards scored about equally well for the “Fun to play” part and both would be a welcome addition to Prosperity and exciting to have in other Kingdoms as well. Finally, both cards have an “innovative concept”, with a tiny edge towards Royal Escort. Among the other cards, there were three that followed the leading pack relatively close. I will name one of them, a Treasure.

My final decision:

Runner-ups:
3rd: Heirloom Jewelry by LibraryAdventurer

2nd: Heir by D782802859

Winner:
Royal Escort by silverspawn

Congratulations to silverspawn and the runner-ups and thank you all for participating and submitting interesting cards for this contest.

Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: silverspawn on October 27, 2020, 12:48:20 pm
Thanks :-)

Alright, if we go in roughly chronological order, the next set is

Contest Round 6 – Cornucopia

It's not entirely clear what themes Cornucopia has. The obvious one is rewarding you for variety (Menagerie, Harvest, Horn of Plenty, Faregrounds), but there are also suspiciously many cards that discard (Hamlet, Fortune Teller, Farming Village, Horse Traders, Young Witch, Harvest, Hunting Party), and Hunting Party punishes variety for some reason. Then there's prizes. There is also some engine-friendliness going on.

I'm going to say discard is too boring, the anti-variety effect was probably an accident, and gaining prizes is not enough. Thus, to be eligible, your card has to

- reward variety (or punish lack of variety for your opponent if you find a way to do that); or
- be a cheap (4$ or less) pro-engine card; or
- be a Prize card rather than a Kingdom Card; or
- do more than one of the above

Among the official Kingdom Cards (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Cornucopia#Kingdom_cards), the ones that would not qualify are Hunting Party, Tournament, Jester, and Fortune Teller. The others would be fine. And to be clear, you can do something that gains prizes, but it has to also do one of the above to qualify.

If you design a Prize card, you automatically qualify, but I strongly recommend thinking about how it would play out rather than just making a mechanic that sounds good. For example, you could argue that many boards are such that getting the first Prize is an auto-win (like if you can't trash); maybe that's not ideal. Does your Prize change that? I do think the existing set of Prizes could have been designed better.

Eligibility is binary, so you don't get extra points for being super-duper on theme. Among the card that qualify, I'll judge solely based on how fun to play with I think they are.

Deadline is Election day (Novermber 3d), with a 24 hour notice. Let's make dominion great again!
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Xen3k on October 27, 2020, 08:57:45 pm
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50689610021_86f87dd61a_b.jpg)

Quote
Waitress - $4
Action-Reaction
Reveal any number of differently named cards from your hand and discard them. +2 Cards per card discarded.
--------
When you discard this other than during Clean-up, you may reveal it to play it.

A terminal Shephard variant. The reaction can be triggered by playing a second Waitress, so it will always be relevant. However, I am not completely certain how playing a Waitress in response to discarding it to a Waitress will resolve. Feedback is more than welcome.

Edit: Changed the draw portion and bumped the price up. Now more of a terminal draw card than before.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Aquila on October 29, 2020, 06:45:07 pm
Quote
Mushroom Picker - Action, $5 cost.
+3 Cards
Reveal your hand; count the differently named cards in it. If there are 4 or more, you may trash a card from your hand. If there are 6 or more, you may gain a Gold.
I thought terminal draw, trashing and $5 costs were a bit lacking in Cornucopia. Revealing hand to count the different cards is the only real way to get draw to care about variety sensibly (the contest qualifying factor), the downside being it might be slow to resolve.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: segura on November 01, 2020, 04:32:18 am
Something pretty basic, Harvest but with cards.

(https://i.imgur.com/u9IOnOM.png)
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: spineflu on November 01, 2020, 07:58:11 am
Something pretty basic, Harvest but with cards.

(https://i.imgur.com/u9IOnOM.png)
clarifying question: i reveal estate, estate, copper, silver; do i discard one estate or two?
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: segura on November 01, 2020, 08:11:43 am
Only 1 Estate.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: pubby on November 01, 2020, 02:02:10 pm
Crops: 10 unique cards in the same pile, like Knights or Castles.

All 10 cards are $3 Action/Reactions with this text: 

Code: [Select]
+2 Cards
+1 Action
Discard 2 cards.
-
When you discard this other than during Clean-up, you may trash it for [...]

The [...] bit differs for each 10 cards. They are:

Tomato Crop: +3 Cards
Eggplant Crop: +$2, +2 Buys
Pumpkin Crop: +3 Actions
Turnip Crop: Gain a Gold.
Onion Crop: Gain a Duchy.
Lettuce Crop: Draw until you have 7 cards in hand.
Apple Crop: Trash two cards from your hand.
Corn Crop: Gain a card costing $4 or less.
Beans Crop: Gain two Silvers to your hand.
Squash Crop: +1 Card, +1 Action, +$1

The idea is that by discarding these crops, you're harvesting them. And they all have unique names, which synergizes with cornucopia stuff.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: silverspawn on November 01, 2020, 02:17:17 pm
Is the order randomized or are the always in the order you've written down here?
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: gambit05 on November 01, 2020, 04:14:02 pm

My submission:

(https://i.ibb.co/4fRvdm5/Samhain.png)
Samhain
$3 – Action
Quote

Play any number of Action cards
from your hand that you don’t have
a copy of in play.

   At the start of Clean-up, if at least 3   
cards played with this are in play,
you may trash this to gain any Prize
or a card costing up to $6.
 


Some rule clarifications:

The cards to be played by a Samhain do not have to be in hand at the time when Samhain was played, i.e. they can be drawn during the process, e.g. by a Smithy, which was played by a Samhain.

If a card leaves play after being played (e.g. Horse), another copy can be played. As those cards are not in play anymore, they do not count for the “3 cards in play” clause for gaining a Prize or something else.

If a card is played by Samhain that allows playing a card itself, the latter card is not counted as being played by Samhain and thus does not have the “no copy in play” restriction. Example: Samhain plays Vassal, which plays Village (after being discarded from the top of the deck). Village was not played by Samhain. Afterwards Samhain can play more cards if available and if no copies of them are in play.


Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: spineflu on November 03, 2020, 09:49:23 am
(https://trello-attachments.s3.amazonaws.com/5f734c336e86cd37f111e3d7/5fa16d2f24579e0e391308a1/cbccf3d181f88d4b921f8000e6eeb422/image.png)
Quote
Trapper • $3 • Action
+1 Action
+$1
Reveal your hand. Reveal the top card of your deck; if you do not have a copy of it in your hand, +1 Card; otherwise, discard it.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: silverspawn on November 03, 2020, 10:21:50 am
I'm actually going to extend the deadline for two days. I'm not in a mental state to be judge, and if others feel at all similarly, they won't be in a mental state to be creative. So it's roughly 48 more hours, but I'll post a proper warning tomorrow.

Also @pubby,

Is the order randomized or are the always in the order you've written down here?
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: pubby on November 03, 2020, 10:47:06 am
The order is randomized
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: silverspawn on November 04, 2020, 12:28:12 pm
Okay, submissions close in 24 hours.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: silverspawn on November 05, 2020, 01:00:47 pm
Submissions closed.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: silverspawn on November 06, 2020, 11:21:58 am
Judging, #6: Cornucopia

Waitress by Xen3k                     

(https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/p1080x2048/123103296_1090217208092624_4395395823210008893_n.png?_nc_cat=107&ccb=2&_nc_sid=ae9488&_nc_ohc=KcQktq271zgAX-J8r_V&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-2.xx&oh=00d6d14facc4a4de85d39de09caa42a2&oe=5FBC7D08)           

I have two issues with this. One is that it seems unreasonably strong. Remember how Menagerie is worth buying even if you can't discard anything, just because the chance of no duplicates in a 4 card hand is decent. This can commonly draw 8 cards (net +4 cards) the first time, and it'll draw 16 and more fairly often.

The other is the reaction. I'm not sure why it's there, but it plays out weirdly. You can play a Waitress using another waitress, which is a little confusing. It's usually not good because you'd rather draw first and have a larger hand, but it can be if you are short on actions. (Say you only have 2 Actions, not sure if you draw a Village, you can play W1, discard W2, use it to discard some more duplicates.)

It also has an odd interaction with  discard effects. Say you play Militia, I discard Card+Waitress, I play Waitress, discard 3 cards, draw 6. Do I discard back down to 3? I think (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=15668.msg856882#msg856882) the answer is yes, but I think it's a bad thing that this comes up. Also, if the answer is yes, that means you can then discard the next Waitress on that discard.

It's arguable, but I don't think all of that complexity is good.
Mushroom Picker by Aquila                                         
Mushroom Picker - Action - $5
+3 Cards
Reveal your hand; count the differently
named cards in it. If there are 4 or more,
you may trash a card from your hand. If
there are 6 or more, you may gain a Gold.
Like Waitress, I think this is busted. I wrote in my Spice Merchant article that almost every card that trashes without handsize reduction is among the strongest cards in the game. This card does that. Having 4 differently named cards in hand after drawing is pretty easy.

I predict that this would be the go-to thing on every board with a village, preferable over almost any other drawer. I also don't see having six cards be difficult, so it takes care of your payload automatically, and in a pretty strong way. I would also skip Forager and other weak trashers. Just getting a lot of those will thin the deck fine.

I think this might work better if the numbers were tweaked. 4 and 6 is too easy. Note that the wording allows you to get both effects when you have 6 or more.

In terms of the concept, rewarding you for variety after drawing might be a good idea.



Field by segura                             

(https://i.imgur.com/u9IOnOM.png)








Nice art. Feels in line with official cards.

Most terminal draw is auto-buy whenever it's the only way to build an engine, so it's more relevant to ask how it plays if you buy it than whether you do buy it. It wouldn't be terribly different from Smithy or Envoy, but it does make you want to buy different villages if possible, which is neat.

Powerlevel is pretty high, probably better than Smithy and Envoy, but it's within reason.

I like it. I don't think it has any big problems.


Crops by pubby

[] - Action - Reaction - 3$
+2 Cards
+1 Action
Discard 2 cards.
-
When you discard this other
than during Clean-up, you
may trash it for [...]

The [...] bit differs for each
 10 cards. They are:

Tomato Crop: +3 Cards
Eggplant Crop: +$2, +2 Buys
Pumpkin Crop: +3 Actions
Turnip Crop: Gain a Gold.
Onion Crop: Gain a Duchy.
Lettuce Crop: Draw until
you have 7 cards in hand.
Apple Crop: Trash two cards
from your hand.
Corn Crop: Gain a card
costing $4 or less.
Beans Crop: Gain two
Silvers to your hand.
Squash Crop: +1 Card,
+1 Action, +$1



The floor here is a Dungeon without the duration effect, which is not great but occasionally strong enough to be bought by itself. The reactions are all over the place. Gaining a duchy is useless if you have it early. Getting +3 Actions is also not going to be good most of the time. Gaining two silvers right to your hand can be great if it's very early.

It's quite swingy, but feels in line with Knights or Boons. The overall powerlevel seems about medium, definitely not busted. One thing to keep in mind is that these trigger without requiring you to spend an action or play a card from your hand (you have to play another card to discard them, but not for the effect of the trashed crop). So +3 cards corresponds to a real 3 card advantage, which is like playing triple horse.

I like Boons, and I could see these being fun in a similar way. I will say that Corn Crop seems like it misses the power level a bit (seems worse than all the others). There's no situation in which buying a 3$ that then becomes a 4$ is great. I think it should just gain the card to your hand.

It also has the problem of drawing in response to Discard. I play Militia, you discard Tomato Crop, you draw 3 cards; I believe you still discard back down to 3. This is probably something Donald X avoided on purpose. But it's not as much of an issue here, with just two of the cards drawing.



Samhain by gambit05

(https://i.ibb.co/4fRvdm5/Samhain.png)





I was a bit disappointed that we didn't get a Prize card this time. Instead, we have a novel way to gain prizes. Here, the condition is 'draw this with 3 unique action cards (that you haven't played before)', rather than 'draw this with a province'.

This is a tricky one to figure out. You now have to invest in engine-y stuff rather than victory cards to gain prizes. This probably changes the powerlevel of prizes. For example, the main reason why Followers is so strong is that it's often correct to keep buying green cards and not optimize your deck in Trounament games, and then, every Followers is a 2 point swing. Play three of them, and your opponent is an entire province down. That's pretty brutal. But in a proper engine, if you can just get rid of the Estate/Curse Followers is less strong (though still pretty strong). With this card, it might not be rare to see Princess picked first.

It's also an interesting effect in itself. It's always effectively +x actions, but x can be quite high. I tend to like games where making +Actions is difficult but doable.

One downside is that it'll be a dead card whenever the board doesn't allow for a good engine. On such boards, the direct effect is weak and the gaining effect too hard to get. But that's okay, not every card needs to be playable on every board.

I like this a lot. I think it may fix some of the issues with prizes, and enable some fairly unique decks.

However, I think your Rule Clarification contradicts the card as-is. 'Play any number of Action cards from your hand' strongly reads to me as 'choose any number of action cards from your hand, then decide an order, then play them in that order', not 'do this as many times as you want: play an action card that you don't have a copy of in play' (which I believe is what your rule clarification says).

The latter version is also much stronger, which I don't think is good.

Either way, wouldn't it be more elegant to say 'If you played at least three card this way, trash this to gain a Prize or a card costing up to 6$' instead of the second paragraph? I'm not sure why the delayed gain is necessary. It does make it so you can't play the Prize in the same turn, but is that important? The card looks like it has too much text right now (also why is there space at the top of the text field?)



Trapper by spineflu

(https://trello-attachments.s3.amazonaws.com/5f734c336e86cd37f111e3d7/5fa16d2f24579e0e391308a1/cbccf3d181f88d4b921f8000e6eeb422/image.png)








On first glance, the floor is a Copper, the Ceiling is a Peddler. On second glance, the floor is a bit better since you can often play good cards from your hand first, if you want to play them, so the card discarded is probably below average.

I think it's an okay/good design. Powerlevel should be perfectly fine, on the weak side but totally playable. Don't see any big problems.

So... I do think gambit05 had the best idea, but I also think the intended version is not as good and it's sub-optimally worded. Therefore my verdict is,

Winner: Field by segura
Runner-up: Samhain by gambit05.
2nd Runner-up: Crops by pubby
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: gambit05 on November 06, 2020, 04:24:07 pm
Congratulations to segura! Many thanks to silverspawn for the extensive evaluation, and especially of the card I have submitted. Looks like you have put a tremendous amount of effort into judging all the cards. If you want we can discuss my card in a separate thread, as I don't want to dilute this thread with any side discussions. Not today, as I feel quite tired; it seems like this day lasted for 80 hours or so. But I am quite happy with the outcome of the contest.

 
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Aquila on November 07, 2020, 02:08:43 am
Here's the winner of the 18th WDC:
Quote
(https://i.imgur.com/tX3qUAW.png)

I guess it shows the premise works/looks convincing.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: segura on November 07, 2020, 03:04:44 am
Thanks silverspawn!

What do you guys think, should we run a Hinterlands contest?
It is one of the mechanically most thin expansions, only the gain and Buy triggers are new.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: D782802859 on November 07, 2020, 04:07:53 pm
Cards that discard your own cards and Victory interactions are also themes.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: spineflu on November 07, 2020, 05:22:03 pm
i mean, nothing but convention says we gotta do 'em in order also - pick an expansion, any expansion
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: X-tra on November 07, 2020, 05:44:22 pm
Thematically it can also be fun to do stuff that falls into the "oversea" category. It's fun to be exotic. :)
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: segura on November 08, 2020, 03:41:43 am
Contest 7: Dark Ages

Lots of stuff to do here: Ruins, Shelters, Spoils and trashing over trashing.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: majiponi on November 09, 2020, 03:12:40 am
Contest 7: Dark Ages

Lots of stuff to do here: Ruins, Shelters, Spoils and trashing over trashing.

Red Army
cost $5 - Action - Attack - Looter
+$3
Each other player may discard a card with multiple types from their hand. Otherwise, they gain a Ruins.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Aquila on November 10, 2020, 09:20:56 am
Quote
Shambles - Action Looter, $4 cost.
+2 Actions
Either play a Ruins from your hand twice, or one in the Supply twice leaving it there. If you played a Ruined Library, discard a card. If a Survivors, +1 Card.
At Clean-up, you may discard a Ruins to exchange this for a Digsite.

Quote
Digsite - Action, $0* cost.
+2 Cards
You may play a Ruins from your hand.
Return this to your hand.
(This is not in the Supply.)
It's a Village with a random effect, maybe that's a bit of fun in itself. It can also upgrade into a draw that returns to hand. Like Asper's Town/Road but more complex; it used to give Spoils as well since you don't need to track repeated gains of them, but do I want to make it even crazier with Champion?

Also added optional play Ruins from hand to Shambles, for when Cultist empties them out.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: silverspawn on November 10, 2020, 10:09:02 am
(https://i.ibb.co/8gfhnKb/crusade.png)
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: grep on November 10, 2020, 12:11:24 pm
Discarded. See my new submission below

(https://i.ibb.co/cTPSYHS/image.png)
Warlord Throne
$5 - Action - Looter
You may play an Action card from your hand or from top of the Ruins pile twice. If you did, you may trash it to gain a Spoils.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: GendoIkari on November 10, 2020, 02:34:46 pm
(https://i.ibb.co/cTPSYHS/image.png)
Warlord Throne
$5 - Action - Looter
You may play an Action card from your hand or from top of the Ruins pile twice. If you did, you may trash it to gain a Spoils.

Playing a card from the supply without "leaving it there" is weird. I would guess that makes the card become yours, but there's not really a precedence for that.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: grep on November 10, 2020, 02:58:06 pm
(https://i.ibb.co/cTPSYHS/image.png)
Warlord Throne
$5 - Action - Looter
You may play an Action card from your hand or from top of the Ruins pile twice. If you did, you may trash it to gain a Spoils.

Playing a card from the supply without "leaving it there" is weird. I would guess that makes the card become yours, but there's not really a precedence for that.
I was considering this variant: "You may gain a Ruins into the hand. You may play an Action card from your hand twice. You may trash that card to gain a Spoils", but too many "you may" makes it ugly.
What about this: "Gain a Ruins into your hand. You may play an Action card from your hand twice and then trash it. If you did, gain a Spoils."
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: GendoIkari on November 10, 2020, 03:18:16 pm
(https://i.ibb.co/cTPSYHS/image.png)
Warlord Throne
$5 - Action - Looter
You may play an Action card from your hand or from top of the Ruins pile twice. If you did, you may trash it to gain a Spoils.

Playing a card from the supply without "leaving it there" is weird. I would guess that makes the card become yours, but there's not really a precedence for that.
I was considering this variant: "You may gain a Ruins into the hand. You may play an Action card from your hand twice. You may trash that card to gain a Spoils", but too many "you may" makes it ugly.
What about this: "Gain a Ruins into your hand. You may play an Action card from your hand twice and then trash it. If you did, gain a Spoils."

That last version seems a lot weaker than the original; it can't be used as a normal Throne Room.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: LittleFish on November 10, 2020, 03:43:07 pm
(https://i.ibb.co/cTPSYHS/image.png)
Warlord Throne
$5 - Action - Looter
You may play an Action card from your hand or from top of the Ruins pile twice. If you did, you may trash it to gain a Spoils.

Playing a card from the supply without "leaving it there" is weird. I would guess that makes the card become yours, but there's not really a precedence for that.
I was considering this variant: "You may gain a Ruins into the hand. You may play an Action card from your hand twice. You may trash that card to gain a Spoils", but too many "you may" makes it ugly.
What about this: "Gain a Ruins into your hand. You may play an Action card from your hand twice and then trash it. If you did, gain a Spoils."

That last version seems a lot weaker than the original; it can't be used as a normal Throne Room.
I think the most recent version should be compared to Procession.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: pubby on November 10, 2020, 05:06:38 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/2fajHed.png)
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Xen3k on November 10, 2020, 05:48:41 pm
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50587861768_6a34ba6c5c_b.jpg)

Quote
Ragman - $3
Action - Looter
+2 Cards
You may play an Action card costing less than this from your hand. If it is a Ruins, trash it for +1 Action.
-
When you gain this, gain 2 Ruins.

An Imp crossed with a Death Cart. Plays similar to Lackeys with the limited number of Ruins it adds to your deck, but can be supported with the starting Necropolis and/or cheap cantrips. Can cause issues if you load up on too many of them as you cannot play the more appealing expensive cards or other Ragman with it. I could always bump up the cost to $4 and specify it can only play cards costing less than $3, but didn't really want to deal with Bridge shenanigans. More than welcome to criticism and feedback.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: GendoIkari on November 10, 2020, 06:18:05 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/IffsCI7.png)
Both go on top of deck.

Needs Looter type. And I believe by the rules, Ruins goes on top of your deck first and then the other action card on top of that, but people won’t know that immediately, so needs clarification.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: spineflu on November 10, 2020, 06:29:02 pm
(https://trello-attachments.s3.amazonaws.com/5f734c336e86cd37f111e3d7/5fab1f3d5fbab259b3a5ff4c/f24ffbf80240f5ce7052bf27745dd60e/image.png)
Quote
Restore • $5 • Action - Looter
+1 Action
Trash a card from your hand.
Choose one: Gain a Silver; or gain a card costing up to $1 more than the trashed card.
-
When this is trashed, each player (including you) gains a Ruins to their hand.

For all its focus on the trash, Dark Ages doesn't have a straightforward flexible remodeler for the card you gain - sure, it's got Altar, where you turn ∀ into a $5; it's got Procession, but that's a fixed +$1 remodeler; it's got Rats, where you turn ∀ into Rats*; and it's got Gravedigger, where you expand Actions only; and it's got Rebuild, which turns games into boring - but nothing that turns ∀ into ∀+$1 (or less! you decide! run down piles!).

I considered having it gain a Spoils instead of Silver, but i think Silver will be better what with Feodum in the same set (plus, it makes it so you still have to deal with junk when Silver engine-detrimental). It's on-trash effect is designed for interaction with Knights, or self-interaction as a sort of Messenger-style nonattack attack. It's nonterminal, in the vein of Rebuild. And it gets you out of the $1 hole that Remake/Upgrade/other +$1 remodelers put you in, which could be problematic in Poor House games.


*
(https://i.imgur.com/XLcrflZ.png)

Update: made changes that anordinaryman suggested.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: anordinaryman on November 12, 2020, 01:51:13 am
(https://trello-attachments.s3.amazonaws.com/5f734c336e86cd37f111e3d7/5fab1f3d5fbab259b3a5ff4c/1a94fee7ec6e8ebe78f9c5d20845915c/image.png)
Quote
Restore • $5 • Action - Looter
+1 Action
Trash a card from your hand. If it cost $0, gain a Silver; Otherwise, gain a card costing up to $1 more than the trashed card.
-
When this is trashed, each player (including you) gains a Ruins to their hand.

For all its focus on the trash, Dark Ages doesn't have a straightforward flexible remodeler for the card you gain - sure, it's got Altar, where you turn ∀ into a $5; it's got Procession, but that's a fixed +$1 remodeler; it's got Rats, where you turn ∀ into Rats*; and it's got Gravedigger, where you expand Actions only; and it's got Rebuild, which turns games into boring - but nothing that turns ∀ into ∀+$1 (or less! you decide! run down piles!).

I considered having it gain a Spoils instead of Silver, but i think Silver will be better what with Feodum in the same set (plus, it makes it so you still have to deal with junk when Silver is a stop card). It's on-trash effect is designed for interaction with Knights, or self-interaction as a sort of Messenger-style nonattack attack. It's nonterminal, in the vein of Rebuild. And it gets you out of the $1 hole that Remake/Upgrade/other +$1 remodelers put you in, which could be problematic in Poor House games.


*
(https://i.imgur.com/XLcrflZ.png)

Love this design. For simplicity, consider "Trash a card from your hand. Choose one: gain a Silver; or gain a card costing up to $1 more than the trashed card." This change does not impact the power level that much (the only difference is now you can turn shelters/poor house into silvers) and I think the simplicity is worth it.

The on-trash mechanic is very interesting cool direction.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: spineflu on November 12, 2020, 11:42:57 am
(https://trello-attachments.s3.amazonaws.com/5f734c336e86cd37f111e3d7/5fab1f3d5fbab259b3a5ff4c/1a94fee7ec6e8ebe78f9c5d20845915c/image.png)
Quote
Restore • $5 • Action - Looter
+1 Action
Trash a card from your hand. If it cost $0, gain a Silver; Otherwise, gain a card costing up to $1 more than the trashed card.
-
When this is trashed, each player (including you) gains a Ruins to their hand.

For all its focus on the trash, Dark Ages doesn't have a straightforward flexible remodeler for the card you gain - sure, it's got Altar, where you turn ∀ into a $5; it's got Procession, but that's a fixed +$1 remodeler; it's got Rats, where you turn ∀ into Rats*; and it's got Gravedigger, where you expand Actions only; and it's got Rebuild, which turns games into boring - but nothing that turns ∀ into ∀+$1 (or less! you decide! run down piles!).

I considered having it gain a Spoils instead of Silver, but i think Silver will be better what with Feodum in the same set (plus, it makes it so you still have to deal with junk when Silver is a stop card). It's on-trash effect is designed for interaction with Knights, or self-interaction as a sort of Messenger-style nonattack attack. It's nonterminal, in the vein of Rebuild. And it gets you out of the $1 hole that Remake/Upgrade/other +$1 remodelers put you in, which could be problematic in Poor House games.


Love this design. For simplicity, consider "Trash a card from your hand. Choose one: gain a Silver; or gain a card costing up to $1 more than the trashed card." This change does not impact the power level that much (the only difference is now you can turn shelters/poor house into silvers) and I think the simplicity is worth it.

The on-trash mechanic is very interesting cool direction.
that's a good simplification and doesn't change the card too drastically. I made those changes.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: pubby on November 12, 2020, 03:45:47 pm
Hmm I like Restore even better with that wording, but think it should really cost $4. This is partly because of power level (it's weaker than Upgrade usually), but also because at $4 you can Restore a Restore into a $5 card, and can restore a Silver into a Restore.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: anordinaryman on November 12, 2020, 03:57:50 pm
Hmm I like Restore even better with that wording, but think it should really cost $4. This is partly because of power level (it's weaker than Upgrade usually), but also because at $4 you can Restore a Restore into a $5 card, and can restore a Silver into a Restore.

I disagree that it is weaker than upgrade usually. Often turning a copper into a silver non-terminally is better than just trashing a copper, especially when you have something to do with those silvers (restore them into <4 cards!) Also, in the end of the game, it can turn 5-costs into duchies, which Upgrade cannot.  Upgrade struggles on trashing ruins when there's no 2-cost cards. Restore can handle them. The flexibility alone makes it on-par with upgrade, even without the +1 card. Restore might be a weaker 5, but I think it'd be imbalanced at 4. It can non-terminally turn coppers into silvers, (and do a lot more) making it a lot stronger than Mine. I know Mine is a weak 5, but it still shows that the right cost for this is 5.

If spineflu wanted it to cost 4, I think they would have to get rid of the silver choice and just make it "gain a card costing up to $1 more than the trashed card." But I think it's better as 5. And as it stands right now, you can still trash a Restore into a $5 card.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: D782802859 on November 12, 2020, 04:37:08 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/2lcbQdr.png?1)
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: spineflu on November 12, 2020, 05:29:23 pm
Hmm I like Restore even better with that wording, but think it should really cost $4. This is partly because of power level (it's weaker than Upgrade usually), but also because at $4 you can Restore a Restore into a $5 card, and can restore a Silver into a Restore.
i dont agree because its definitely stepping on vanilla remodel's toes for strictly better early game (copper->silver, etc) (likewise trading post or other silver-centric trashers). i see where you're coming from but it would be too good at $4.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: grep on November 12, 2020, 05:41:51 pm
Heavily modified Warlord Throne

(https://i.ibb.co/B22kzdZ/image.png)
Quote
Vulture
$4 - Action - Reaction - Looter
+$2
Gain a Ruins into your hand. Play it twice and then trash it.
-
When another player trashes a card, you may discard this to gain a Spoils into your hand.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: NoMoreFun on November 12, 2020, 11:48:49 pm
Heavily modified Warlord Throne

(https://i.ibb.co/B22kzdZ/image.png)
Quote
Vulture
$4 - Action - Reaction - Looter
+$2
Gain a Ruins into your hand. Play it twice and then trash it.
-
When another player trashes a card, you may discard this to gain a Spoils into your hand.

Compare to Bard - way too strong
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: anordinaryman on November 13, 2020, 12:51:14 am
(https://files.coding4.coffee/selif/i9bto9lf.png)

Quote
Dissect - Action - Looter - $4
Trash a card from your hand. Choose a different thing per $1 it costs: trash a card costing less than it from the Supply; trash a card from your hand; gain a Spoils; gain a Silver; play the top Ruins in the Supply twice leaving it there.

How about a Scrap for the Dark Ages? All of the 5 options for this are Dark Ages specific --trashing a card from the Supply or your hand is great when there are on-trash benefits; Spoils and Ruins are Dark Age exclusives, of course; then there's Silver gaining, of which is a minor theme of Dark ages (beggar, squire, feodum).

This is a pretty strong estate trasher - turn an estate into a Silver and a Spoils is awesome. Or Turning it into a Spoils and trashing another card from your hand is also good. The problem is that when you're playing Dark Ages, it means there's less of a chance of having estates. There's checks and Balances with this card.

Astute readers may realize that Ruins likely costs less than the card you trashed -- so you can Trash an estate to trash the top ruins in the hopes that the one below it is the Ruins you desperately want to Throne Room. The "trash from the Supply" is slightly hard to trigger than it seems. In order to trash a Fortress from the Supply (yay-- free fortress!) you'd have to trash a 5-cost card. And if you trash a 5-cost card, you have to pick all the options which means trashing another card in your hand as well. So there's some check and balances here, though they are subtle.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: spineflu on November 13, 2020, 03:23:04 am
Heavily modified Warlord Throne

(https://i.ibb.co/B22kzdZ/image.png)
Quote
Vulture
$4 - Action - Reaction - Looter
+$2
Gain a Ruins into your hand. Play it twice and then trash it.
-
When another player trashes a card, you may discard this to gain a Spoils into your hand.
is there a reason you gain the ruins to your hand? seems like an unnecessary step when things like innovation exist.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: silverspawn on November 13, 2020, 04:31:16 am
I'd scrap the reaction from vulture
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Holger on November 13, 2020, 05:32:37 am
Hmm I like Restore even better with that wording, but think it should really cost $4. This is partly because of power level (it's weaker than Upgrade usually), but also because at $4 you can Restore a Restore into a $5 card, and can restore a Silver into a Restore.
i dont agree because its definitely stepping on vanilla remodel's toes for strictly better early game (copper->silver, etc) (likewise trading post or other silver-centric trashers).

Not really. IMO the preferred use of Remodel in the early game is usually trashing Estates, which Remodel can turn into $4 cards (including more Remodels) but Restore can only turn into $3 cards.
So Restore is worse at upgrading Estates (or even Shelters) than Remodel, but better at upgrading Coppers. It has the advantage of being nonterminal, but after the early game you usually don't want more Silvers, and Restore can't turn Golds into Provinces like Remodel can. Therefore I'd also try it at $4.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: silverspawn on November 13, 2020, 07:12:17 am
I think Restore would be terribly weak at 5$. It's 2$ worse than Mine on-play if used on Coppers, which is a big deal, and Mine is quite underwhelming for a 5$.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: spineflu on November 13, 2020, 09:13:46 am
I think Restore would be terribly weak at 5$. It's 2$ worse than Mine on-play if used on Coppers, which is a big deal, and Mine is quite underwhelming for a 5$.
terminality matters here
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: segura on November 15, 2020, 10:12:44 am
Results for the Dark Ages contest

Red Army by majiponi (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20521.msg857003#msg857003)
Is this just Mountebank as Looter? No, Red Army, or any other Attack or Duration or what other more-than-one-type card in the Kingdom also become Moats.
This feels power-level-wise on the point, i.e. not as overpowered and centralizing as many other junkers.
RUNNER-UP


Shambles/Digsite by Aquila (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20521.msg857054#msg857054)
This has several problems.
First, would you really buy a Ruins and exchange Shambles to get a reloadable Moat? Nah, that's not worth it.
Second, emulating the Ruins on the top is a cool idea. Not so cool if you don't really do what the Ruins says.
I totally understand why it is mechanically necessary to nerf Ruined Library and buff Survivors but it is just too messy.


Crusade by silverspawn (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20521.msg857057#msg857057)
I love $5 Smithies+ that are conditionally non-terminal. I don't have much to say about it, this looks fine and balanced.
RUNNER-UP


Plague Doctor by pubby
 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20521.msg857072#msg857072)
It is obvious but it has to be said, this is crazy if there are Actions that cost more than $5.
Imagine being able to play Possession or Prince at T4!
Otherwise this looks pretty good.


Ragman by Xen3k (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20521.msg857073#msg857073)
This is hard to judge without playtesting but my hunch is that this is bad if there are no $2 Actions.
Lab nets +1 Card, but Ragman is on-gain -2 Cards. Best case is that you hit both Ruins during the first two plays of Ragman.
Then, averaged over the gain and the two plays, Ragman was a Village plus the vanilla effect of the 2 Ruins. But the on-gain junking is worse than the extra draw later for cycling reasons.
And that's tge best case which ignored the matching risk.
So no, I don't think that this is any good. I like it more than Death Cart though.


Restore by spineflu (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20521.msg857076#msg857076)
Lots of discussion about this one. I cannot fathom when I would ever pick this over any other $5 trasher and would go even further: it it costed $2, I can imagine situations in which I would prefer Raze over this.
Both Upgrade and Transmogrify draw (Transmogrify doesn't draw but gains to hand and thus pseudo-draws) whereas this only floods you with Silvers.
If you want Silver, the Trade family of cards/landmarks is better at that (either you get more Silvers or you get the Silver to hand).


Sacrifical Lamb by D782802859 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20521.msg857125#msg857125)
Another Upgrade variant, substituting Upgrade's draw for 2 Coins and a nice reaction.
With its biblical theme, it doesn't have any Dark Ages vibes though.


Vulture by grep (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20521.msg857127#msg857127)
I liked Warlord Throne, that was a cool TR variant. But on to the Vulture. There are 4 options:
+(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/2/2a/Coin4.png/16px-Coin4.png) - $5 power
+2 Cards +(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/3/3d/Coin2.png/16px-Coin2.png) - $5 power
+2 Actions +(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/3/3d/Coin2.png/16px-Coin2.png) - $4.5 power
+2 Buys +(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/3/3d/Coin2.png/16px-Coin2.png) -  $3.5 power
+(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/3/3d/Coin2.png/16px-Coin2.png) with Survivors - $2 power

So at the first glance, it looks OKish. It's the Ironmonger story, a random effect which you have no control over should be stronger than a deterministic effect.
But the Ruins run out, you can only play Vulture 10 times in the game. I don't know whether the timer on the card is intentional. The Reaction seems to indicate an "out" in case the Action part of it becomes dead.
So to buff it the Ruins should be put on the bottom of the pile or discarded and if the Ruins pile is empty it is shuffled.


Dissect by anordinaryman (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20521.msg857140#msg857140)
I cannot add anything to the analysis that anordinaryman already provided. This is a thinking man's card with lots of subtle stuff going on.
RUNNER-UP



RUNNER-UPS: Red Army by majiponi, Mountebank as Looter done right
Crusade by silverspawn, the Smithy with the self-looting DoubleLab option
Dissect by anordinaryman, the less vanilla-ish Scrap variant
WINNER: Crusade by silverspawn. Did I say that I love Smithies that can be non-terminal? I also love self-junking.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: silverspawn on November 15, 2020, 10:45:27 am
Thanks :-)

Crusade is actually a variant of a card from my old expansion. It was "+2 Cards, reveal your hand, if at least half of it is copies of crusade and cards that cost 0$, +1 Action" for 4$. It got playtested and I thought it was alright, definitely didn't break the game, but I've never found a wording for counting cards that cost 0 and itself that didn't sound weird or ambiguous, so now I made a version that didn't didn't count itself.

Contest 8: Guilds

Guilds is easy: Coin tokens and overpay. All entries should do one or the other or both. I personally think there's a ton of design space left to explore with overpay in particular.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Doom_Shark on November 15, 2020, 12:51:36 pm
I personally was always surprised that there wasn't an overpay that converted coins to coffers.

(https://i.imgur.com/GPDtAb0.png)
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: spineflu on November 15, 2020, 01:17:05 pm
(https://trello-attachments.s3.amazonaws.com/5f734c336e86cd37f111e3d7/5fb170145e877b1085a8cb42/1b9dded6a47dfc2afe5aa9a29bd51522/image.png)
Quote
Principality• $5+ • Victory
2%
-
When you buy this, you may overpay for it; for each $2 you overpay (round down), gain a Duchy.

If you don't overpay, +1 Coffers.

rationale: Guilds lacks a fancy victory card. I wanted to do something where overpay works a little differently - not too out there/crazy, but different enough from existing cards, on the level of how stonemason cares about potion overpay but herald doesn't. I also thought it'd be interesting to give a small rebate for not overpaying - after all, $5 for a flat 2vp isnt a great price when duchy exists.

thematically, it ties "prosperity" to "guilds" by giving a use to the $7 turn - something that, at the time, only expand/forge/bank used. Might also be interesting as a Dominate style megaturn finisher, if your deck can handle that much green.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: LittleFish on November 15, 2020, 01:42:41 pm
(https://trello-attachments.s3.amazonaws.com/5f734c336e86cd37f111e3d7/5fb170145e877b1085a8cb42/01eee8869aa23af6ca809551c6f08df2/image.png)
Quote
Principality• $5+ • Victory
2%
-
When you buy this, you may overpay for it; for each $2 you spend (round down), gain a Duchy.

If you don't overpay, +1 Coffers.
Wouldn't it be "for every (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/3/3d/Coin2.png/16px-Coin2.png) overpaid..."
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: spineflu on November 15, 2020, 01:52:38 pm
(https://trello-attachments.s3.amazonaws.com/5f734c336e86cd37f111e3d7/5fb170145e877b1085a8cb42/01eee8869aa23af6ca809551c6f08df2/image.png)
Quote
Principality• $5+ • Victory
2%
-
When you buy this, you may overpay for it; for each $2 you spend (round down), gain a Duchy.

If you don't overpay, +1 Coffers.
Wouldn't it be "for every (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/3/3d/Coin2.png/16px-Coin2.png) overpaid..."
sure
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: gambit05 on November 15, 2020, 03:53:19 pm
My Submission:

(https://i.ibb.co/LRVqzBm/Grand-Lodge.png)

Grand Lodge
$2+ – Action
Quote
Discard any number of
cards for +$1 each.
----------------------------
When you buy this, you may
overpay for it. For each $1
you overpaid, +1 Card at
the end of this turn.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: gambit05 on November 18, 2020, 02:16:38 am
I personally was always surprised that there wasn't an overpay that converted coins to coffers.

(https://i.imgur.com/GPDtAb0.png)

For me it looks like the on-buy effect of converting $1 to Coffers is quite strong. This may be okay when the normal ability is a bit weaker. In addition, also giving Coffers here seems like this card can produce a flood of Coffers which can be unfunny.

(https://trello-attachments.s3.amazonaws.com/5f734c336e86cd37f111e3d7/5fb170145e877b1085a8cb42/1b9dded6a47dfc2afe5aa9a29bd51522/image.png)
Quote
Principality• $5+ • Victory
2%
-
When you buy this, you may overpay for it; for each $2 you overpay (round down), gain a Duchy.

If you don't overpay, +1 Coffers.

Is "round down" intended? Wouldn't this mean overpaying $5 gives 3 Duchies? Could be okay, just asking.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Gubump on November 18, 2020, 02:25:29 am
Is "round down" intended? Wouldn't this mean overpaying $5 gives 3 Duchies? Could be okay, just asking.

(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/7/7d/Coin5.png/16px-Coin5.png)/(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/3/3d/Coin2.png/16px-Coin2.png) rounds down to 2 Duchies...
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: gambit05 on November 18, 2020, 02:31:39 am
Is "round down" intended? Wouldn't this mean overpaying $5 gives 3 Duchies? Could be okay, just asking.

(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/7/7d/Coin5.png/16px-Coin5.png)/(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/3/3d/Coin2.png/16px-Coin2.png) rounds down to 2 Duchies...

You are right! I don't know what I was thinking...
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Aquila on November 18, 2020, 03:19:37 am
Quote
Royal Appointment - Victory, $3+ cost.
2VP
-
When you first buy Royal Appointment on each of your turns, if the previous turn wasn't yours: you may overpay for it. Take another turn after this one drawing 1 card per $1 overpaid for your hand (instead of 5).
It will be tiny text, but I can't think of anything better to attach the overpay bit on to. If you're sacrificing $ for extra turns, then your deck is already good.
You buy your first one in the turn for $3, and you get an extra turn with 0 cards in hand; is that an issue?
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: gambit05 on November 18, 2020, 04:02:37 am
Quote
Royal Appointment - Victory, $3+ cost.
2VP
-
When you first buy Royal Appointment on each of your turns, if the previous turn wasn't yours: you may overpay for it. Take another turn after this one drawing 1 card per $1 overpaid for your hand (instead of 5).
It will be tiny text, but I can't think of anything better to attach the overpay bit on to. If you're sacrificing $ for extra turns, then your deck is already good.
You buy your first one in the turn for $3, and you get an extra turn with 0 cards in hand; is that an issue?

Maybe something like this:
Quote
When you buy this, you may overpay for it.
If the previous turn wasn’t yours, take another
turn after this with +1 Card per $1 overpaid.

I don't know whether it is better to leave the "(instead of 5)"; or perhaps (last line) "...after this, starting with +1 Card..." may do it.

Edit: I just saw this question:

Quote from: Aquila
You buy your first one in the turn for $3, and you get an extra turn with 0 cards in hand; is that an issue?

Shouldn't be a problem as you cannot overpay by $0:

Quote
Players may choose not to overpay, even if they have extra coins, but cannot choose to overpay by $0; to overpay, a player has to actually pay more than the cost.
http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Overpay

Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: LibraryAdventurer on November 18, 2020, 07:44:06 am
(I hope the judges don't mind that I made a card that I can enter in both contests for this week)

[EDITed]
Quote
Gangster
$5 - Action - Attack
+2 Cards.
The player to your left reveals the top card of their deck. You may reveal a copy of the revealed card for +1 Coffers.
Each other player with at least 5 cards in hand discards a copy of the revealed card (or reveals they can't). If they discarded an Action or Treasure costing at least $5, they get +1 Coffers.

I think I'll snip a bit and switch back to a +3 Card version:
Quote
Gangster
$5 - Action - Attack
+3 Cards.
The player to your left reveals the top card of their deck. Each other player with at least 5 cards in hand discards a copy of the revealed card (or reveals they can't). If they discarded an Action or Treasure costing at least $3, they get +1 Coffers.

I made it more likely to give out Coffers to keep it from being too strong with +3 Cards.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: gambit05 on November 18, 2020, 08:08:20 am
(I hope the judges don't mind that I made a card that I can enter in both contests for this week)

[EDITed]
Quote
Gangster
$5 - Action - Attack
+2 Cards.
The player to your left reveals1 the top card of their deck. You may reveal a copy of the revealed card2 for +1 Coffers.
Each other player with at least 5 cards in hand discards a copy of the revealed card3. If they discarded an Action or Treasure4 costing at least $5, they get +1 Coffers.

1 Maybe, discards is better?
2 I think this needs "from your hand"
3 ...and this needs: "(or reveals they can't)".
4 How about: If it's an Action or Treasure...
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: LibraryAdventurer on November 18, 2020, 08:17:36 am
(I hope the judges don't mind that I made a card that I can enter in both contests for this week)

[EDITed]
Quote
Gangster
$5 - Action - Attack
+2 Cards.
The player to your left reveals1 the top card of their deck. You may reveal a copy of the revealed card2 for +1 Coffers.
Each other player with at least 5 cards in hand discards a copy of the revealed card3. If they discarded an Action or Treasure4 costing at least $5, they get +1 Coffers.

1 Maybe, discards is better?
Why?
2 I think this needs "from your hand"
3 ...and this needs: "(or reveals they can't)".
You're right. And the card was wordy as it was, and this is going to make it too wordy. I need to decide which part to cut...
4 How about: If it's an Action or Treasure...
Then it would look like it refers to the revealed card whether they discarded a copy or not.

(EDITed my entry)
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: gambit05 on November 18, 2020, 08:55:14 am
(I hope the judges don't mind that I made a card that I can enter in both contests for this week)

[EDITed]
Quote
Gangster
$5 - Action - Attack
+2 Cards.
The player to your left reveals1 the top card of their deck. You may reveal a copy of the revealed card2 for +1 Coffers.
Each other player with at least 5 cards in hand discards a copy of the revealed card3. If they discarded an Action or Treasure4 costing at least $5, they get +1 Coffers.

1 Maybe, discards is better?
Why?
2 I think this needs "from your hand"
3 ...and this needs: "(or reveals they can't)".
You're right. And the card was wordy as it was, and this is going to make it too wordy. I need to decide which part to cut...
4 How about: If it's an Action or Treasure...
Then it would look like it refers to the revealed card whether they discarded a copy or not.

(EDITed my entry)

1 It was just a suggestion. It depends on what you intend to occur when multiple Gangsters are played.
4 "...discards a copy of the revealed card (or...). If it's..." For me it looks like it refers to "discards". Anyway, your wording is probably less ambiguous.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Xen3k on November 19, 2020, 07:32:58 pm
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50884824627_dc22e38f61_b.jpg)

Quote
Gong Farmer - $2+
Action
+2 Cards
+1 Action
Discard 2 cards.
-
When you buy this, you may overpay for it. For each $1 you overpaid, you may trash a non-Victory card from your hand.

Similar to Doctor in that it trashes when you buy it, but it is different in that it does not continue to trash cards. Works better (on buy) mid game when you have enough money to overpay and still keep copper in hand to trash. Honestly, I was having some trouble coming up with a card design but stumbled upon the term "Gong Farmer" and had to use it. Not sure about power level. Feedback is welcome.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: majiponi on November 20, 2020, 09:11:22 am
Atelier
cost $5 - Action
+1 Coffer
Remove any number of tokens from your Coffers. For each token removed, gain a card costing up to $4.
---
When you gain this, +1 Coffer.


EDIT: removed overpaying effect. Let's enjoy grabbing a pile.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: grep on November 20, 2020, 01:12:39 pm
Atelier
cost $4+ - Action
+1 Coffer
Remove any number of tokens from your Coffers. For each token removed, gain a card costing up to $4.
---
When you buy this, you may overpay for it. For each $1 you overpaid, +1 Coffer.
The overpay option is probably OP: you can stock all the unused $ into Coffers (compare to Pageant which is quite a strong Event and only stores 1$)
Gain for Coffers is an easy way to empty a pile, extremely devastating with Highway. I would fix it by allowing to gain differently named cards
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: silverspawn on November 22, 2020, 06:54:00 am
24 hour notice. Get your action cards in while they're hot! That doesn't make any sense.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: D782802859 on November 22, 2020, 10:29:33 am
(https://i.imgur.com/S6shfAl.png?1)
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: grep on November 22, 2020, 11:15:54 am
I'll try to jump into the leaving train.
Quote
(https://i.ibb.co/VN7NrSY/image.png) (https://tinyurl.com/y26u5svz)
Caravel
$5 - Action
Reveal the top 3 cards from your deck. +1 Coffers per Treasure card revealed.
You may play one of the revealed Action cards. Discard the rest.

Clarification: the rest of the revealed cards are not discarded until the played card is resolved. This is intended to somewhat weaken the power of a chain of Caravels.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: LittleFish on November 22, 2020, 11:24:05 am
Guildmaster
Action-(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/2/2a/Coin4.png/16px-Coin4.png)
+2 cards.
For every 2 action cards you have in play, +1 coffer. If you have no action cards other than this in play, +(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/f/f7/Coin1.png/16px-Coin1.png) and trash this.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: silverspawn on November 23, 2020, 07:08:53 am
Judgment Day

I've put the non-image cards into images this time; makes formatting easier and I see how much text the card has. Btw, it's Coffers, not Coffer, and vanilla bonuses are always uppercase.

(https://i.ibb.co/LRVqzBm/Grand-Lodge.png)       
Grand Lodge -- gambit05

Hey, this is the same effect I've just used for Rice Paddy in the WDC thread.

I think it's a great idea!  8)

My idea for the top half was: let's make it a dead card so you're penalized for buying it all the time. Your idea seems to be: let's make it something that works together with the bottom part. I think this demonstrates beyond a reasonable doubt that you're a much nicer person than I am.

It does also have a penalizing effect, though, since you can't really make use of having more than one copy of the top effect.

Runner-up
(https://i.imgur.com/S6shfAl.png?1)
Milliner -- D782802859

A different spin on Throne Room. No phantom +Action, but easier to use.

The effect is pretty unique and quite elegant. That said, though I don't think it's obvious, I suspect this is probably pretty busted. I've playtested a similar card which had a phantom -1 Action -- which is to say, it allowed you to take cards back into your hand as an effect, requiring you to spend an additional Action to play them. To make it non-awful if you only had 1 Action, you could alternatively top deck it. It was quite strong.

This compares a bit too favorably to Band of Misfits in particular. The effect is probably better, and it doesn't stop working when piles run out.

I like the overpay effect. Overall, this narrowly misses Runner-up status (there are a bit too many of them).
(https://i.ibb.co/VN7NrSY/image.png)
Caravel -- grep

Interesting. Is there any other card that encourages a mixture of Action and Treasure cards in dominion? I'm not sure there is.

For every junk card revealed, this discards a bad card. For every Treasure Card, it gains +1 Coffers. Furthermore, if it hits at least one Action card, you gain +1 Card, +1 Action. This is the best bonus, so you want to hit an Action card, but preferably not more than one.

I suspect this is a bit on the weak side, but I like the effect a lot.

Runner-up.
(https://i.imgur.com/GPDtAb0.png)
Banker -- Doom_Shark

As you mentioned, this is a pretty obvious idea. I think the execution is fine. This should be a perfectly reasonable card.
(https://trello-attachments.s3.amazonaws.com/5f734c336e86cd37f111e3d7/5fb170145e877b1085a8cb42/1b9dded6a47dfc2afe5aa9a29bd51522/image.png)
Principality -- spineflu

Interesting idea. So, a few price points: we have 7$ for 5VP (2 cards), 9$ for 8VP (3 cards), 11$ for 11VP (4 cards), 13$ for 13VP (5 cards), and 15$ for 15VP (6 cards). As comparison, Colony is 11$ for 10VP and Dominate is 14$ for 15VP.

So, the card compares not-great to bigger Victory cards. This is probably a good thing since you don't want to Duchy flood every game. The non-overpay part makes it an interesting alternative to Duchy in the late game, and it also helps setting up one big turn.

I like it. it's clever and the numbers seem reasonable.

Runner-up.
(https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/p1080x2048/126465677_694210224563874_3656947195206500385_n.png?_nc_cat=105&ccb=2&_nc_sid=ae9488&_nc_ohc=LMvTSBfCkn8AX9JgHL0&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-2.xx&oh=83f9482d18be40cdf572d5c085084e89&oe=5FDD8641)
Gongfarmer -- Xen3k

Interesting Vanilla Bonus.

If you want to trash coppers with this, it's effectively 1 per 2$ overpaid, since you can't play the coppers from your hand. This makes it less attractive early. There's also the thing where the vanilla bonus and the on-buy do the same thing, so each makes the other less important. I like it; it seems clever. It's neat how it's especially good at trashing curses or ruins.

Runner-up
(https://i.ibb.co/nQ3ytJt/Atelier.png)
Atelier -- majiponi

If there are no other ways to gain coin tokens, you effectively gain 2 cards costing 4$ the first time, and 1 after that. This is on the weak side for a card costing 5$, but you'd still buy it. You can also consider it a workshop where you pay an extra 2$ to gain 1 coin token, which is not that bad.

If there are other sources of Coin tokens, you can go empty a pile real quick. Hard to know how it players since no official card does that, but it's not obviously unfun to me. I like it as an experiment.

Runner-up
(https://i.ibb.co/cxStfSb/Guildmaster.png)
Guildmaster -- LittleFish

I'm pretty sure this card is busted. It's not rare to play a gazillion Action cards in Dominion, and this card is just bonkers as payload. Won't be rare to gain 5+ coin tokens. There is a bit of a conflict here where the vanilla bonus  makes you want to play the card earlier, to draw stuff, and the lower effect at the end, but I don't think it's enough. You would probably buy this even if it didn't draw any cards. Consider how easy it is to get +2 Cards, +2 coin tokens with this, which is supposedly strong at 5$.
(https://i.ibb.co/6tXrR1W/Royal-Appointment.png)
Royal Appointment -- Aquila

Some minus points for too much text here, especially since it is possible to phrase this such that it's at least one line shorter.

The effect is... interesting... in strong decks, you will definitely buy this every non-extra turn. Hard to say how fun it will be, but not a bad idea.
(https://i.ibb.co/s9Bpmch/Gangster.png)
Gangster -- LibraryAdventurer

Unfortunately for you, I'm not a fan of very swingy attacks like Swindler or Mountebank. This feels like that. If this flips a village, it can nuke your turn; the compensation of 1 Coffers doesn't make that significantly less bad.

Also, this wording confuses me. The way I think it should work is that each player other than you (including the one who revealed the card) discards, but the wording seems to suggest that everyone other than the player to your left discards. I'm going to assume it's the former.

It also gets some minus points for too much text.

Final Verdict:
2nd place: Principality
1st place: Caravel

Caravel does a concept that I really think should exist, and it seems well-executed and well-worded.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: gambit05 on November 23, 2020, 08:27:04 am
Many thanks for your efforts, silverspawn. Congratulations to grep for winning, spineflu for the second place and thanks to basically everyone else for participating.


Hey, this is the same effect I've just used for Rice Paddy in the WDC thread.

I think it's a great idea!  8)

Hey, I hope you don't think I haven stolen your idea.

Quote from: silverspawn
My idea for the top half was: let's make it a dead card so you're penalized for buying it all the time. Your idea seems to be: let's make it something that works together with the bottom part.

I wanted to go for the overpay effect and this was the simplest thing I came up with that hasn't been used on official cards.

Quote from: silverspawn
I think this demonstrates beyond a reasonable doubt that you're a much nicer person than I am.

Nah, it just reflects the different requirements of the different contests.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

For the next round, I assume it will be about Adventures. Since this is a quite complex expansion with a lot of different mechanics that are all interesting, what do you guys think about splitting it into two contest rounds?

Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: silverspawn on November 23, 2020, 10:00:16 am
(I was mostly joking about that last part.) We've skipped Hinterlands, so that could also be the next one.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: spineflu on November 23, 2020, 11:28:04 am
(I was mostly joking about that last part.) We've skipped Hinterlands, so that could also be the next one.
and there's no rule saying we have to go in order. If I won, I'd have skipped to Nocturne (not bc it's my fav expansion, but because it's the one with the narrowest card pool imo, on account of shoehorning in a new phase/type and having to build the basis vector for that).
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: grep on November 23, 2020, 12:05:47 pm
Thanks silverspawn, that was totally unexpected for my quick hack.
Hinterlands is one of my favorite expansions, so let's do it.

Contest 9: Hinterlands

This is quite a big expansion introducing a new mechanic of "when you gain/when you buy" effects. It encourages bulkier decks with having quite a lot of sifters and not having fast trashers.

The themes of Hinterlands:
(as specified by Donald X in http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=1818.msg28889#msg28889 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=1818.msg28889#msg28889))
9 effects when gained/bought: Noble Brigand, Nomad Camp, Cache, Embassy, Ill-Gotten Gains, Inn, Mandarin, Border Village, Farmland
4 other interaction with gain/buy: Duchess, Fool's Gold, Trader, Haggler
7 Victory/Treasure/Reaction: Fool's Gold, Tunnel, Silk Road, Trader, Cache, Ill-Gotten Gains, Farmland
4 interact with Victory cards: Crossroads, Duchess, Fool's Gold, Silk Road
8 card filtering: Oasis, Oracle, Jack of All Trades, Cartographer, Embassy, Inn, Margrave, Stables

I would also mention the theme of Silver/Gold gaining (Embassy, Noble Brigand, Fool's Gold, Trader, Jack of All Trades, Tunnel), and Horizontal Line (more than a half of Hinterlands cards have one)
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: LittleFish on November 23, 2020, 12:16:06 pm
Quote
Magistrate
Action (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/7/7d/Coin5.png/16px-Coin5.png)

You may reveal a victory card from your hand. If it costs (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/2/2a/Coin4.png/16px-Coin4.png) or more, +(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/3/32/Coin3.png/16px-Coin3.png). Otherwise, +(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/f/f7/Coin1.png/16px-Coin1.png)
----
When you gain this, each other player reveals a Victory card from their hand and puts it onto their deck (or reveals a hand with no Victory cards).


I'm not sure if this is good enough. It may not work because it depends on having dead cards in hand. Maybe lowering the price, and upping the difference between rewards would be better. Any advice?

Quote
Magistrate
Action (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/7/7d/Coin5.png/16px-Coin5.png)

You may reveal a victory card from your hand. If it costs (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/2/2a/Coin4.png/16px-Coin4.png) or more, +(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/2/2a/Coin4.png/16px-Coin4.png). Otherwise, +(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/3/3d/Coin2.png/16px-Coin2.png)
----
When you gain this, each other player reveals a Victory card from their hand and puts it onto their deck (or reveals a hand with no Victory cards).
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: X-tra on November 23, 2020, 01:17:44 pm
(https://i.postimg.cc/3RWg5Mcd/Missionary-V1-EN.png)

An old idea I've shown to the Dominion Discord a couple of months ago. I think it fits within Hinterland's theme.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: spineflu on November 23, 2020, 03:17:14 pm
(https://trello-attachments.s3.amazonaws.com/5f734c336e86cd37f111e3d7/5fbc17c0a64a6341c7f51a62/233f0dbacf4f546a067d868e059e570c/image.png)
Quote
Vizier • $3 • Action - Attack
Gain a Silver. Each other player with 4 or more cards in hand reveals their hand and places the lowest cost (in coins) card on top of their deck.
-
When you gain this, do its attack.

Noble Bureaucrat? Uses the new Noble Brigand style wording.

edited for 4 or more cards
and because i missed probably the easiest thematic naming opportunity I've ever thought up
and because i realized there's a multi-card comparison problem when there's debt/potion costs, i added (in coins) from Forge.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: gambit05 on November 23, 2020, 03:17:33 pm
Quote
Magistrate
Action (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/7/7d/Coin5.png/16px-Coin5.png)

You may reveal a victory card from your hand. If it costs (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/2/2a/Coin4.png/16px-Coin4.png) or more, +(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/3/32/Coin3.png/16px-Coin3.png). Otherwise, +(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/f/f7/Coin1.png/16px-Coin1.png)
----
When you gain this, each other player reveals a Victory card from their hand and puts it onto their deck (or reveals a hand with no Victory cards).

I'm not sure if this is good enough. It may not work because it depends on having dead cards in hand. Maybe lowering the price, and upping the difference between rewards would be better. Any advice?

This looks like a nice late game card when players have a substantial number of Victory cards in their deck. However, the best case scenario when you play it is +$3, which seems quite weak for a $5 cost card. I don't know whether it would be balanced at $4. If not, a little extra bonus (e.g. +1 Buy) may help. The on-gain effect looks like an "Attack", but if I am correct that this card is bought rather late in the game, it may actually help the opponents to line up their Magistrate with a Victory card. This could be cool, but not combined with a weak on-play effect.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: spineflu on November 23, 2020, 03:18:42 pm
Quote
Magistrate
Action (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/7/7d/Coin5.png/16px-Coin5.png)

You may reveal a victory card from your hand. If it costs (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/2/2a/Coin4.png/16px-Coin4.png) or more, +(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/3/32/Coin3.png/16px-Coin3.png). Otherwise, +(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/f/f7/Coin1.png/16px-Coin1.png)
----
When you gain this, each other player reveals a Victory card from their hand and puts it onto their deck (or reveals a hand with no Victory cards).

I'm not sure if this is good enough. It may not work because it depends on having dead cards in hand. Maybe lowering the price, and upping the difference between rewards would be better. Any advice?

This looks like a nice late game card when players have a substantial number of Victory cards in their deck. However, the best case scenario when you play it is +$3, which seems quite weak for a $5 cost card. I don't know whether it would be balanced at $4. If not, a little extra bonus (e.g. +1 Buy) may help. The on-gain effect looks like an "Attack", but if I am correct that this card is bought rather late in the game, it may actually help the opponents to line up their Magistrate with a Victory card. This could be cool, but not combined with a weak on-play effect.
Also thinking +1 Buy would help justify the $5 price tag, but also maybe up the hit/miss by a dollar (+$4 on collision, +$2 on miss).
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: gambit05 on November 23, 2020, 03:33:04 pm
(https://trello-attachments.s3.amazonaws.com/5f734c336e86cd37f111e3d7/5fbc17c0a64a6341c7f51a62/a79023b8ce0a5e2be2e3edd02d7c7684/image.png)
Quote
Vizier • $3 • Action - Attack
Gain a Silver. Each other player with 4 or more cards in hand reveals their hand and places the lowest cost card on top of their deck.
-
When you gain this, do its attack.

Noble Bureaucrat? Uses the new Noble Brigand style wording.

edited for 4 or more cards, and because i missed probably the easiest thematic naming opportunity I've ever thought up.

Nice novel attack for going for the lowest costs!
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: silverspawn on November 23, 2020, 03:36:34 pm
(https://i.ibb.co/gTTNfLF/Pyramid.png)
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: gambit05 on November 23, 2020, 03:37:49 pm
Quote
Magistrate
Action (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/7/7d/Coin5.png/16px-Coin5.png)

You may reveal a victory card from your hand. If it costs (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/2/2a/Coin4.png/16px-Coin4.png) or more, +(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/3/32/Coin3.png/16px-Coin3.png). Otherwise, +(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/f/f7/Coin1.png/16px-Coin1.png)
----
When you gain this, each other player reveals a Victory card from their hand and puts it onto their deck (or reveals a hand with no Victory cards).

I'm not sure if this is good enough. It may not work because it depends on having dead cards in hand. Maybe lowering the price, and upping the difference between rewards would be better. Any advice?

This looks like a nice late game card when players have a substantial number of Victory cards in their deck. However, the best case scenario when you play it is +$3, which seems quite weak for a $5 cost card. I don't know whether it would be balanced at $4. If not, a little extra bonus (e.g. +1 Buy) may help. The on-gain effect looks like an "Attack", but if I am correct that this card is bought rather late in the game, it may actually help the opponents to line up their Magistrate with a Victory card. This could be cool, but not combined with a weak on-play effect.
Also thinking +1 Buy would help justify the $5 price tag, but also maybe up the hit/miss by a dollar (+$4 on collision, +$2 on miss).

Yes, I agree.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: gambit05 on November 23, 2020, 03:49:06 pm
(https://i.ibb.co/gTTNfLF/Pyramid.png)

This looks suspiciously similar to Nobles.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: silverspawn on November 23, 2020, 05:29:10 pm
Well, the wrong way to use Nobles is to play one Nobles for 2 Actions into another Nobles for 3 Cards and end up with +1 card on net. The wrong way to use Pyramid is to discard another Pyramid. If you do that, they're exactly the same.

The right way to use Nobles is as a smithy variant with village support and the +2 Actions only for unlucky draws. The right way to use Pyramid is to discard other Victory cards. I'm not sure how similar they are in that case.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: segura on November 24, 2020, 12:45:29 am
There is a slight but significant difference though: with Pyramid, you can discard a Pyramid and later draw into the very copy you discarded.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: gambit05 on November 24, 2020, 09:30:48 am
The similarity with Nobles was my immediate impression and it still holds to some extent. However after some more thoughts about this, I think they are different in the way when they are strongest. Nobles is likely better mid-game with few Victory cards around* and needs a Village for its best performance, but it can be also played for drawing without any support. In contrast, Pyramid always needs another Victory card and is better than Nobles in the late game when the density of Victory cards increases.

*Edit: or Pyramid, if used in mid-game, requires a different approach, e.g. no Estates trashing. So yeah, another difference between the two cards.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: segura on November 24, 2020, 10:55:00 am
Nobles is more flexible (always a Smithy or a Necro) whereas Pyramid has a better self synergy (a deck with lots of Pyramids is great as they are then often Labs). I guess it is also good in thin deck that greens early, e.g. Chapel, money, Pyramid.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: gambit05 on November 24, 2020, 02:15:33 pm

My submission:

(https://i.ibb.co/ydDYGpf/Pioneer.png)

Pioneer
$4 – Action
Quote

       Trash the top card of your deck.       
Gain a card onto your deck
costing up to $2 more than it.
-----------------------------
When you gain this, you may
put a non-Duration card you
have in play onto your deck.


Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Aquila on November 24, 2020, 05:05:46 pm
Quote
Sampan - Action, $4 cost.
+1 Action
+ $2

Once this turn, when you gain a Treasure, you may play it for +1 Buy.
-
When you gain this, play up to 4 Treasures from your discard pile.
The on-play effect I'm sure about except the + $2. The on-gain effect is an add-on largely because there's space for it; I could take it off.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Xen3k on November 24, 2020, 09:50:49 pm
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50649619612_2b58de4a7c_b.jpg)

Quote
Monkey - $3
Action
+1 Buy
+ $1
You may play a non-Monkey Action card from your hand. If it costs more than this, gain a Silver, otherwise, gain a Monkey.
----
When you gain this, +$2.

An optionally non-terminal +Buy and Coin. If you take advantage of the non-terminality you get a bonus, either a Silver or another Monkey. When you gain a Monkey you get a coin, so having those +Buys helps. Careful using this as you may balloon your deck full of Silver and Monkeys. Not sure if this is too weak. I could always bump up the below line bonus to make getting more Monkeys more appealing.

Edit: updated per suggestion from Doom_Shark.

Edit 2: Decided to bump up the below line on-gain bonus to +$2 effectively making it cost $1. I think this should be okay as Monkey does not combo with itself in the deck, so having multiples of them can be detrimental, especially if the game is at the point where gaining Silver would be junking your deck.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Doom_Shark on November 25, 2020, 09:16:25 am
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50642714753_36b6b119e1_b.jpg)

Quote
Monkey - $3
Action
+1 Buy
+ $1
You may play a non-Monkey Action card. If it costs more than this, gain a Silver, otherwise, gain a Monkey.
----
When you gain this, +$1.

An optionally non-terminal +Buy and Coin. If you take advantage of the non-terminality you get a bonus, either a Silver or another Monkey. When you gain a Monkey you get a coin, so having those +Buys helps. Careful using this as you may balloon your deck full of Silver and Monkeys. Not sure if this is too weak. I could always bump up the below line bonus to make getting more Monkeys more appealing.

You want to specify that the non-monkey card comes from your hand.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Xen3k on November 25, 2020, 10:22:02 am
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50642714753_36b6b119e1_b.jpg)

Quote
Monkey - $3
Action
+1 Buy
+ $1
You may play a non-Monkey Action card. If it costs more than this, gain a Silver, otherwise, gain a Monkey.
----
When you gain this, +$1.

An optionally non-terminal +Buy and Coin. If you take advantage of the non-terminality you get a bonus, either a Silver or another Monkey. When you gain a Monkey you get a coin, so having those +Buys helps. Careful using this as you may balloon your deck full of Silver and Monkeys. Not sure if this is too weak. I could always bump up the below line bonus to make getting more Monkeys more appealing.

You want to specify that the non-monkey card comes from your hand.

Thanks for the feedback. Is it not assumed to be from your hand if not specified, like with discarding? I an still learning all the rules nuances.

Edit: Nevermind, you are right. Just looked at Imp again. Thanks for pointing that out!
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: segura on November 25, 2020, 01:52:01 pm
I don’t know, the Silver gaining could degenerate into self-junking.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Xen3k on November 25, 2020, 02:53:45 pm
I don’t know, the Silver gaining could degenerate into self-junking.

That is actually intended as a feature. You always do have the option to not play an Action. Too many Monkeys and they may feel like junk as well. Hinterlands has something of a theme of making large decks and filtering through it, I wanted Monkey to be something of a Magpie/Rats/Imp that emphasized that.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Holger on November 26, 2020, 04:30:01 am
I don’t know, the Silver gaining could degenerate into self-junking.

That is actually intended as a feature. You always do have the option to not play an Action. Too many Monkeys and they may feel like junk as well. Hinterlands has something of a theme of making large decks and filtering through it, I wanted Monkey to be something of a Magpie/Rats/Imp that emphasized that.
Monkey seems quite weak to me. At best, it's a Pouch that automatically gains copies of itself or Silver, junking your deck unless you play Big Money. And if you don't play an Action with it, it's significantly worse than Woodcutter...
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: segura on November 26, 2020, 06:43:20 am
I agree that it is weakish but think that it is more interesting than Herbalist which is the most similar card, vanilla- and cost-wise (I really like the below the line stuff, simple and novel).
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Xen3k on November 26, 2020, 10:52:43 am
I was thinking of changing the below line on-buy bonus to +$2 effectively making it only cost $1 if you have the extra buy. Likewise this would make it act as a better-than-Woodcutter if you gain a Monkey off playing a Monkey and Action card. Thank you for the feedback so far, please feel free to provide more.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: segura on November 26, 2020, 12:38:21 pm
That is more radical but perhaps also more interesting, especially with gainers / remodelers.
Play Remake, trash 2 Estates, gain 2 Monkeys and get 4 Coins.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: grep on November 30, 2020, 10:27:47 am
24 Hour Notice
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: grep on December 01, 2020, 06:05:39 pm
I got some urgent work, will judge later tonight
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: grep on December 02, 2020, 02:17:33 am
Contest 9: Hinterlands - Judging time
Sorry for being brief, it's almost midnight, and I'm trying to do my best before falling asleep

(https://i.ibb.co/hFCw5Nz/image.png)
Magistrate by LittleFish (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20521.msg857692#msg857692)

Baron for Duchies and endgame accelerator, Nobles' best friend. Will it give cash when a Victory card is not revealed? I assume yes, otherwise it's too weak. The on gain "non-attack" cannot be reacted or deflected, similar to Masquerade, which might be confusing.
(https://i.postimg.cc/3RWg5Mcd/Missionary-V1-EN.png)
Missionary by X-Tra (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20521.msg857695#msg857695)

The pace of this card makes it one of the strongest first turn purchases possible, while silver gaining slows it down and avoids insanity. This card probably needs a more brutal name, taking into account the self-synergy when Missionaries trash each other.

Short List
(https://trello-attachments.s3.amazonaws.com/5f734c336e86cd37f111e3d7/5fbc17c0a64a6341c7f51a62/233f0dbacf4f546a067d868e059e570c/image.png)
Vizier by spineflu (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20521.msg857707#msg857707)

This Bureaucrat remake looks stronger than the original, as it attacks all the hands, not just those with Victory cards. Topdecking the cheapest card is marginally stronger than topdecking anything, but might be very strong in the game opening - I would consider sometimes opening with two Viziers.
(https://i.ibb.co/gTTNfLF/Pyramid.png)
Pyramid by silverspawn (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20521.msg857711#msg857711)

This one is probably the closest to the Hinterlands theme, rhyming with Crossroads and Stables. Relatively weak on play effect unless paired with a Kingdom treasure (Tunnel is the best friend)

Short List
(https://i.ibb.co/ydDYGpf/Pioneer.png)
Pioneer by gambit05 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20521.msg857799#msg857799)

Remodeling the topdeck is weak in the beginning when the topdeck is likely a Copper. I would consider +Action to let multiple Pioneers work on the same card.
(https://i.ibb.co/PrQ2yKr/image.png)
Sampan by Aquila (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20521.msg857817#msg857817)

Action Silver with a nice and balanced on play effect (net gain a Silver and +$1 or a Gold for -$1). The on buy may be enormous in bloated hands, but it requires more memorizing of the discard pile contents than a casual player can do.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50649619612_2b58de4a7c_b.jpg)
Monkey by Xen3k (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20521.msg857841#msg857841)

Extremely cheap weakened Imp, properly named. Will spam you to death unless you find a way to get use of all those Silvers. Works as a last resort source of +Buys.

Final Verdict:

Winner: Missionary by X-Tra
Runner Up: Pyramid by silverspawn

Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: X-tra on December 02, 2020, 09:03:40 am
Thank you for picking the good ol' Missionary, Grep! :)

CONTEST 10: ADVENTURES

After detouring to Hinterlands, we go back on track with Adventures! There’s quite a lot to do here, so let’s break it down. Accepted submissions will be about:
Now. While Duration cards make a Triumphant return in Adventures, they shan’t be the main focus of your card. They’re accepted, of course, so long as something else mentioned in the list above appears on your card (ex: A Duration card that uses Adventures tokens; or even a Duration card that stays in play permanently).


Judging will be done on the 11th of December 2020 (2020-12-11). It's in a week and 2 days. I'm giving this contest a little more time than the usual 1 week rule since this thread seems a little slower and has fewer submissions than the Weekly Design Contest thread.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: grep on December 02, 2020, 12:31:59 pm
(https://i.ibb.co/93PpJfR/image.png)
Homage
Event - $0
Once per turn: Discard a Victory card from your hand to gain a cheaper card.



I'm going for a card gaining Event similar to Alms and Pilgrimage, significantly altering the pattern of the game. You will probably like to get an early Province for faster development, and the end game junked hands turn into Duchy gainers.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Timinou on December 02, 2020, 01:42:17 pm
(https://i.ibb.co/93PpJfR/image.png)
Homage
Event - $0
Once per turn: Discard a Victory card from your hand to gain a cheaper card.



I'm going for a card gaining Event similar to Alms and Pilgrimage, significantly altering the pattern of the game. You will probably like to get an early Province for faster development, and the end game junked hands turn into Duchy gainers.

Nice!  It would pair well with something like Ranger that would let you cycle through your deck faster to draw a Province and also give you +1 Buy. 

How did you decide on a cost of $0?  It seems a lot more powerful than Alms, assuming you are able to get an early Province (or a Noble). 
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: mandioca15 on December 02, 2020, 01:52:02 pm
Catalyst (Action-Reserve, $4)

+1 Action
Put this on your Tavern mat.
---
When you gain an Action card, you may call this, to immediately play it.

An Innovation variant that lets you wait for the right card to use it on.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: spineflu on December 02, 2020, 04:29:02 pm
(https://trello-attachments.s3.amazonaws.com/5f734c336e86cd37f111e3d7/5fc8066e2ad1b71f1d9af120/d707de65520d704b906216902abba010/image.png)
Quote
Roustabout • $3 • Action - Duration
At the start of your turn, you may discard a Treasure for +2 Cards, then discard a card.
(This stays in play)

Hireling but filtering. Keeps your handsize the same. Costs a treasure to use. Stack them to ensure a good action/victory/night density in every hand.

edit: this is withdrawn
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Holger on December 02, 2020, 05:35:25 pm
(https://i.ibb.co/93PpJfR/image.png)
Homage
Event - $0
Once per turn: Discard a Victory card from your hand to gain a cheaper card.



I'm going for a card gaining Event similar to Alms and Pilgrimage, significantly altering the pattern of the game. You will probably like to get an early Province for faster development, and the end game junked hands turn into Duchy gainers.

Nice!  It would pair well with something like Ranger that would let you cycle through your deck faster to draw a Province and also give you +1 Buy. 

How did you decide on a cost of $0?  It seems a lot more powerful than Alms, assuming you are able to get an early Province (or a Noble).

Yes, when there's strong $5-$7 cards of which you want many copies (e.g. KC or Goons), this probably gives more incentive to buy an early Province (or two) than Tournament, as it turns them into a kind of super-University.
Being able to gain a free Platinum or Province whenever you have a Colony in hand also sounds extremely strong.

Still, it's a very interesting concept. Maybe you want to give Homage a cost of $2 or $3, or limit the cost of the gained card to $4 or $5?  Then it'd still work fine with Duchies and most kingdom victory cards, but wouldn't become insane with Provinces and Colonies.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Aquila on December 02, 2020, 05:59:55 pm
Quote
Astronomer - Action Reserve, $2 cost.
+1 Action
Put this on your Tavern mat.
-
When you shuffle, you may call this, to first pick one of the cards and put it into your hand. After shuffling, discard this.
This is from a very early WDC. I've been playing with it some and it looks convincing to me. It's a delayed cantrip that picks any card from your deck to draw, but it misses shuffles.


(https://trello-attachments.s3.amazonaws.com/5f734c336e86cd37f111e3d7/5fc8066e2ad1b71f1d9af120/d707de65520d704b906216902abba010/image.png)
Quote
Roustabout • $3 • Action - Duration
At the start of your turn, you may discard a Treasure for +2 Cards, then discard a card.
(This stays in play)

Hireling but filtering. Keeps your handsize the same. Costs a treasure to use. Stack them to ensure a good action/victory/night density in every hand.
Don't you think this is similar to Dungeon, or a rotation of 2 Dungeons?

Just a reminder that these contests started out as being about adding a card to each set, so entries should ideally mix in with them well. I'm not the host of this one, of course, just saying.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: gambit05 on December 03, 2020, 01:51:38 am
Quote
After shuffling, discard this.

Is there a particular idea behind this last part? Isn't it simpler to just leave it in the playing area (after calling) and discard it during Clean up, or is it intended that it can be picked up again in the same turn?

I am just asking. I like the simple idea, and if there is no particular reason, you could simplify the wording of the card even more.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: spineflu on December 03, 2020, 08:50:00 am

(https://trello-attachments.s3.amazonaws.com/5f734c336e86cd37f111e3d7/5fc8066e2ad1b71f1d9af120/d707de65520d704b906216902abba010/image.png)
Quote
Roustabout • $3 • Action - Duration
At the start of your turn, you may discard a Treasure for +2 Cards, then discard a card.
(This stays in play)

Hireling but filtering. Keeps your handsize the same. Costs a treasure to use. Stack them to ensure a good action/victory/night density in every hand.
Don't you think this is similar to Dungeon, or a rotation of 2 Dungeons?

Just a reminder that these contests started out as being about adding a card to each set, so entries should ideally mix in with them well. I'm not the host of this one, of course, just saying.

oof, yeah way too close to dungeon; for whatever reason i thought Dungeon wasn't from adventures but yeah, way too close. Lemme think up something else.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Timinou on December 03, 2020, 09:53:05 am
(https://i.ibb.co/93PpJfR/image.png)
Homage
Event - $0
Once per turn: Discard a Victory card from your hand to gain a cheaper card.



I'm going for a card gaining Event similar to Alms and Pilgrimage, significantly altering the pattern of the game. You will probably like to get an early Province for faster development, and the end game junked hands turn into Duchy gainers.

Nice!  It would pair well with something like Ranger that would let you cycle through your deck faster to draw a Province and also give you +1 Buy. 

How did you decide on a cost of $0?  It seems a lot more powerful than Alms, assuming you are able to get an early Province (or a Noble).

Yes, when there's strong $5-$7 cards of which you want many copies (e.g. KC or Goons), this probably gives more incentive to buy an early Province (or two) than Tournament, as it turns them into a kind of super-University.
Being able to gain a free Platinum or Province whenever you have a Colony in hand also sounds extremely strong.

Still, it's a very interesting concept. Maybe you want to give Homage a cost of $2 or $3, or limit the cost of the gained card to $4 or $5?  Then it'd still work fine with Duchies and most kingdom victory cards, but wouldn't become insane with Provinces and Colonies.

I like the idea of Homage becoming super powerful in kingdoms with Colonies, so my personal preference would be to see the cost tweaked (could even be based on the cost of the Victory card being discarded) or only being able to trigger the ability of Homage if certain conditions are met (e.g. having a copy of the discarded Victory card in hand or a certain number of cards in play).       
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: spineflu on December 03, 2020, 10:37:54 am
Alright, pivoting to new idea
(https://trello-attachments.s3.amazonaws.com/5f734c336e86cd37f111e3d7/5fc902f81eae557f621dae32/aba10e3c72b3f12cc57d4917f9d4e0c0/image.png)
Quote
Crone • $5 • Action - Attack - Duration
Until the start of your next turn, whenever another player gains a card that costs $4 or more on their turn, they draw one fewer card when drawing a new hand at the end of their turn.

At the start of your next turn, +$2, +1 Buy

Adventures introduced a new style of duration-attack, one which changes the rules for other players on their turns as the attack, then gives a benefit at the start of your next turn (Haunted Woods, Swamp Hag - these also showed up in later expansions as Enchantress & Gatekeeper). Adventures also doesn't have a typical Militia variant, instead leaning on the –1 Card token for everything but Soldier. This kinda splits the difference - each other player controls how hard the militia style attack hits. The "cares about quantity of gains" aspect of Treasure Hunter is here. It's also a good counter to a magpie+money deck early on. It only triggers on $4+ because those early silvers can be so crucial and getting hit for taking them (or curses via cursed gold, or whatever) can be too brutal; this also provides some fun interaction with Ferry, since other players can pick which card gets to bypass the Crone.

Edit: this is also withdrawn
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Timinou on December 03, 2020, 11:27:33 am
Alright, pivoting to new idea
(https://trello-attachments.s3.amazonaws.com/5f734c336e86cd37f111e3d7/5fc902f81eae557f621dae32/50f734f9319d4d2870ee5141faec878a/image.png)
Quote
Crone • $5 • Action - Attack - Duration
Until the start of your next turn, whenever another player gains a card that costs $4 or more, they draw one fewer card when drawing a new hand at the end of their turn.

At the start of your next turn, +$2, +1 Buy

Adventures introduced a new style of duration-attack, one which changes the rules for other players on their turns as the attack, then gives a benefit at the start of your next turn (Haunted Woods, Swamp Hag - these also showed up in later expansions as Enchantress & Gatekeeper). Adventures also doesn't have a typical Militia variant, instead leaning on the –1 Card token for everything but Soldier. This kinda splits the difference - each other player controls how hard the militia style attack hits. The "cares about quantity of gains" aspect of Treasure Hunter is here. It's also a good counter to a magpie+money deck early on. It only triggers on $4+ because those early silvers can be so crucial and getting hit for taking them (or curses via cursed gold, or whatever) can be too brutal; this also provides some fun interaction with Ferry, since other players can pick which card gets to bypass the Crone.

Did you want the effect to be based on quantity of buys or gains?
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: spineflu on December 03, 2020, 11:46:58 am
Alright, pivoting to new idea
(https://trello-attachments.s3.amazonaws.com/5f734c336e86cd37f111e3d7/5fc902f81eae557f621dae32/50f734f9319d4d2870ee5141faec878a/image.png)
Quote
Crone • $5 • Action - Attack - Duration
Until the start of your next turn, whenever another player gains a card that costs $4 or more, they draw one fewer card when drawing a new hand at the end of their turn.

At the start of your next turn, +$2, +1 Buy

Adventures introduced a new style of duration-attack, one which changes the rules for other players on their turns as the attack, then gives a benefit at the start of your next turn (Haunted Woods, Swamp Hag - these also showed up in later expansions as Enchantress & Gatekeeper). Adventures also doesn't have a typical Militia variant, instead leaning on the –1 Card token for everything but Soldier. This kinda splits the difference - each other player controls how hard the militia style attack hits. The "cares about quantity of gains" aspect of Treasure Hunter is here. It's also a good counter to a magpie+money deck early on. It only triggers on $4+ because those early silvers can be so crucial and getting hit for taking them (or curses via cursed gold, or whatever) can be too brutal; this also provides some fun interaction with Ferry, since other players can pick which card gets to bypass the Crone.

Did you want the effect to be based on quantity of buys or gains?
ah, good catch, that was a late change; gains. I've modified the OP
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: grep on December 03, 2020, 12:29:29 pm
(https://trello-attachments.s3.amazonaws.com/5f734c336e86cd37f111e3d7/5fc902f81eae557f621dae32/14e39f7bf497b87d9009c6782788cf59/image.png)
Crone • $5 • Action - Attack - Duration
Until the start of your next turn, whenever another player gains a card that costs $4 or more, they draw one fewer card when drawing a new hand at the end of their turn.

At the start of your next turn, +$2, +1 Buy

A more Adventures style (and a bit less harsh attack) would be to make them take the -1 Card token
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Timinou on December 03, 2020, 12:30:46 pm
Alright, pivoting to new idea
(https://trello-attachments.s3.amazonaws.com/5f734c336e86cd37f111e3d7/5fc902f81eae557f621dae32/50f734f9319d4d2870ee5141faec878a/image.png)
Quote
Crone • $5 • Action - Attack - Duration
Until the start of your next turn, whenever another player gains a card that costs $4 or more, they draw one fewer card when drawing a new hand at the end of their turn.

At the start of your next turn, +$2, +1 Buy

Adventures introduced a new style of duration-attack, one which changes the rules for other players on their turns as the attack, then gives a benefit at the start of your next turn (Haunted Woods, Swamp Hag - these also showed up in later expansions as Enchantress & Gatekeeper). Adventures also doesn't have a typical Militia variant, instead leaning on the –1 Card token for everything but Soldier. This kinda splits the difference - each other player controls how hard the militia style attack hits. The "cares about quantity of gains" aspect of Treasure Hunter is here. It's also a good counter to a magpie+money deck early on. It only triggers on $4+ because those early silvers can be so crucial and getting hit for taking them (or curses via cursed gold, or whatever) can be too brutal; this also provides some fun interaction with Ferry, since other players can pick which card gets to bypass the Crone.

Did you want the effect to be based on quantity of buys or gains?
ah, good catch, that was a late change; gains. I've modified the OP

Do you think that there should be a cap on how many fewer cards a player would have to draw?  Otherwise, this could potentially be brutal in a game with something like Jesters.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: spineflu on December 03, 2020, 01:37:27 pm
(https://trello-attachments.s3.amazonaws.com/5f734c336e86cd37f111e3d7/5fc902f81eae557f621dae32/14e39f7bf497b87d9009c6782788cf59/image.png)
Crone • $5 • Action - Attack - Duration
Until the start of your next turn, whenever another player gains a card that costs $4 or more, they draw one fewer card when drawing a new hand at the end of their turn.

At the start of your next turn, +$2, +1 Buy


A more Adventures style (and a bit less harsh attack) would be to make them take the -1 Card token


I'm aware; I even mentioned it in the ramble of the original post. I think It's more interesting to give an escalating penalty for using things like "Ball", "Disciple" or a deck that aims to gain the "Magpie" pile; Also this lets it stack a la Swamp Hag when you play multiples of them.

Alright, pivoting to new idea
(https://trello-attachments.s3.amazonaws.com/5f734c336e86cd37f111e3d7/5fc902f81eae557f621dae32/50f734f9319d4d2870ee5141faec878a/image.png)
Quote
Crone • $5 • Action - Attack - Duration
Until the start of your next turn, whenever another player gains a card that costs $4 or more, they draw one fewer card when drawing a new hand at the end of their turn.

At the start of your next turn, +$2, +1 Buy

Adventures introduced a new style of duration-attack, one which changes the rules for other players on their turns as the attack, then gives a benefit at the start of your next turn (Haunted Woods, Swamp Hag - these also showed up in later expansions as Enchantress & Gatekeeper). Adventures also doesn't have a typical Militia variant, instead leaning on the –1 Card token for everything but Soldier. This kinda splits the difference - each other player controls how hard the militia style attack hits. The "cares about quantity of gains" aspect of Treasure Hunter is here. It's also a good counter to a magpie+money deck early on. It only triggers on $4+ because those early silvers can be so crucial and getting hit for taking them (or curses via cursed gold, or whatever) can be too brutal; this also provides some fun interaction with Ferry, since other players can pick which card gets to bypass the Crone.

Did you want the effect to be based on quantity of buys or gains?
ah, good catch, that was a late change; gains. I've modified the OP

Do you think that there should be a cap on how many fewer cards a player would have to draw?  Otherwise, this could potentially be brutal in a game with something like Jesters.

I don't think there should be a cap (i mean, there's a de facto cap anyway of hitting five times), but I think the affected gaining should be on their turn (lest this combo too well with Messenger). I'll revise. It should be on a each player to dig their own grave with this.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: spineflu on December 03, 2020, 02:00:33 pm
also i think this is all a moot point because that style of attack-duration isn't on the accepted submissions list

so once again, back to the drawing board, to make:

(https://trello-attachments.s3.amazonaws.com/5f734c336e86cd37f111e3d7/5fc945fafd61a9191cf8a231/0f1b6c568dbc696a759136d92e3245bb/image.png)
Quote
Horde • $4 • Action - Attack - Duration
Turn your Journey token over (it starts face up). If it's face-down, each other player takes their -1 Card token. If it's face up, each other player gets +1 Card then discards down to 3 cards in hand.

At the start of your next turn, +2 Cards.

now it works because adventure tokens. yay. also i went with the margrave handsize attack rather than the legionary variation one so it'd be less brutal.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: LordBaphomet on December 03, 2020, 04:14:37 pm
I've been out of it for a while, but its nice seeing my idea still alive :)
This card took adventure tokens and ran with it. You can make it a lab, a village, a peddler, whatever you want!
(https://i.imgur.com/RrA67Y2.png)
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: LibraryAdventurer on December 03, 2020, 10:49:15 pm
I have a few reserve cards from a mini fan expansion that have been decently well tested, but I decided to live on the edge and enter this completely untested Hamlet/Lab Reserve card instead.

Quote
Paladin
$5 - Action - Reserve
+2 Cards, +1 Action.
Discard up to two cards. For each card you discarded, choose one: +1 Action, +1 Buy, +$1.
Put this on your Tavern mat.
-
At the start of your turn, you may discard a card to discard this from your tavern mat.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: gambit05 on December 04, 2020, 02:09:33 pm
My submission:

(https://i.ibb.co/mtHt67y/Odysseus-Archer.png) (https://i.ibb.co/n6ys4HR/Odysseus-Architect.png) (https://i.ibb.co/k0wxKdN/Odysseus-Herder.png) (https://i.ibb.co/g4yXc59/Odysseus-Nymph.png) (https://i.ibb.co/WsZBTYW/Odysseus-Suitor.png)

Archer
$2 – Action –Traveller

Quote


When you gain a card this
turn, you may put it onto
your deck.
----------------------
When you discard this from
     play, you may exchange it for     
an Architect.


Architect
$3* – Action –Traveller

Quote

Look through your discard pile.
You may play an Action card
from it or from your hand.
----------------------
When you discard this
  from play, you may exchange it   
for a Herder.

(This is not in the Supply.)

Herder
$4* – Action – Attack - Traveller

Quote

Each other player discards
down to 3 cards in hand.
----------------------
When you discard this from play,
you may exchange it for a Nymph
  and you may put another card you   
discard from play onto your deck.

(This is not in the Supply.)

Nymph
$5* – Action – Reserve - Traveller

Quote

+4 Cards
Put this on your Tavern mat.
----------------------
At the start of your turn, you may
call this, to exchange it for a Suitor.
If you don’t, +1 Card and +1 Buy.

(This is not in the Supply.)


Suitor
$6* - Action – Duration

Quote

At the start of each of your turns,
set aside the top 5 cards of your
deck, face up. Play an Action card
from them twice. Discard any
number of the remaining cards
and put the rest back in any order.

(This stays in play. This is not
in the Supply.)




Theme
This Traveller line is dedicated to Odysseus, of whom they say that he travelled a lot. The names of the cards reflect various people and creatures Odysseus met during his journeys.

Mechanics
The card effects are centered around moving cards, often in non-conventional ways, e.g. from discard to deck, discard to play, play to deck, deck to play, hand to discard, whatever. In this way, there is quite some interaction between the different cards of this Traveller line. With good timing and the right combination of Traveller cards, a swift progression can be achieved and sometimes it can be the better option to not exchange a card.

Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: LordBaphomet on December 04, 2020, 06:05:36 pm
My submission:

(https://i.ibb.co/mtHt67y/Odysseus-Archer.png) (https://i.ibb.co/n6ys4HR/Odysseus-Architect.png) (https://i.ibb.co/k0wxKdN/Odysseus-Herder.png) (https://i.ibb.co/g4yXc59/Odysseus-Nymph.png) (https://i.ibb.co/WsZBTYW/Odysseus-Suitor.png)

Archer
$2 – Action –Traveller

Quote


When you gain a card this
turn, you may put it onto
your deck.
----------------------
When you discard this from
     play, you may exchange it for     
an Architect.


Architect
$3* – Action –Traveller

Quote

Look through your discard pile.
You may play an Action card
from it or from your hand.
----------------------
When you discard this
  from play, you may exchange it   
for a Herder.

(This is not in the Supply.)

Herder
$4* – Action – Attack - Traveller

Quote

Each other player discards
down to 3 cards in hand.
----------------------
When you discard this from play,
you may exchange it for a Nymph
  and you may put another card you   
discard from play onto your deck.

(This is not in the Supply.)

Nymph
$5* – Action – Reserve - Traveller

Quote

+4 Cards
Put this on your Tavern mat.
----------------------
At the start of your turn, you may
call this, to exchange it for a Suitor.
If you don’t, +1 Card and +1 Buy.

(This is not in the Supply.)


Suitor
$6* - Action – Duration

Quote

At the start of each of your turns,
set aside the top 5 cards of your
deck, face up. Play an Action card
from them twice. Discard any
number of the remaining cards
and put the rest back in any order.

(This stays in play. This is not
in the Supply.)




Theme
This Traveller line is dedicated to Odysseus, of whom they say that he travelled a lot. The names of the cards reflect various people and creatures Odysseus met during his journeys.

Mechanics
The card effects are centered around moving cards, often in non-conventional ways, e.g. from discard to deck, discard to play, play to deck, deck to play, hand to discard, whatever. In this way, there is quite some interaction between the different cards of this Traveller line. With good timing and the right combination of Traveller cards, a swift progression can be achieved and sometimes it can be the better option to not exchange a card.
I feel that architect is a bit weak... play an action from your hand is equal to +1 Action so its mian selling point is that it plays from discard, and it wouldn't be uncommon early game to not have any actions in the discard.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Xen3k on December 04, 2020, 08:59:22 pm
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50681095922_7e217fba4f_b.jpg)

Quote
Street Illusionist - $4
Action - Command - Reserve
Choose one: Put this on your Tavern mat; or play a non-Command, non-Reserve Action card from your Tavern mat, leaving it there.
----
Directly after you finish playing a Non-Duration Action card, you may call this to put it on your Tavern mat.

A build your own Band of Misfits. Certainly slower than Band, but can play cards of any cost as long as you have bought one and sent it to the Tavern. Really not sure if the price is correct. I think $3 would be too little, but with the amount of work needed to just make it functional, $5 would be too much. Feedback is more than welcome!
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: X-tra on December 04, 2020, 10:44:00 pm
Just a reminder that these contests started out as being about adding a card to each set, so entries should ideally mix in with them well. I'm not the host of this one, of course, just saying.
About this… Yes, I guess that ideally, the submitted card should fill a niche that is not found within the expansion currently being judged. Likewise, on paper, it’d be cool if it could complement the other existing cards of the expansion in a meaningful way.

However, I did not make that point clear in my competition post; and so I won’t hold it against any entry submitted this week. For instance, there is already a “-1 Coin” token Attack (Bridge Troll) in Adventures, but that won’t affect your submission if you too wish to submit an Attack card that also uses that token. IRL, that’d feel redundant. But here, it’s all good. I won’t subtract any point toward your card if such a situation occurs. :)

Should I win another contest (I doubt that, but let’s dream amIrite), I’ll address this more clearly.

also i think this is all a moot point because that style of attack-duration isn't on the accepted submissions list
I honestly would not have minded an "Attack – Duration" card as the inspiration for this week’s contest. I mean, I know it wasn’t on my contest post, but I ain’t so stuck-up on rules that I can’t judge the card for what it is. Besides, my contest post is merely an inspiration for what’s expected here. It’s not a hard-coded guideline :) . Plus, you explained where the borrowed mechanic came from, so it’s not like that was a super random idea.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: spineflu on December 04, 2020, 11:14:07 pm
also i think this is all a moot point because that style of attack-duration isn't on the accepted submissions list
I honestly would not have minded an "Attack – Duration" card as the inspiration for this week’s contest. I mean, I know it wasn’t on my contest post, but I ain’t so stuck-up on rules that I can’t judge the card for what it is. Besides, my contest post is merely an inspiration for what’s expected here. It’s not a hard-coded guideline :) . Plus, you explained where the borrowed mechanic came from, so it’s not like that was a super random idea.

I hear you; I'm actually pretty happy with Horde as it's less contentious and also it has a neat is-a-counter-to-itself factor (kinda like Haunted Woods).
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: segura on December 05, 2020, 02:12:04 am
This is a Traveler line with quite some intra-line interactions. In the 2 games I have played with it, it was a bit too centralizing.
Potential changes I consider is raising the price by 1 Coin as well as reducing the Coffers yields of Mauler.

(https://i.imgur.com/3bCsIj7.png) (https://i.imgur.com/qhKlIcv.png) (https://i.imgur.com/IehXdT9.png) (https://i.imgur.com/DFdiNkS.png) (https://i.imgur.com/xtLfobe.png)
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: gambit05 on December 05, 2020, 02:52:29 am
I just had a quick look without trying to understand all the interactions and whether cards are balanced or not, but two things I realised immediately:

1) Since this is supposed to be a contribution to the Adventures expansion, the usage of Coffers looks out of place.
2) Assuming no Attack cards other than those of this Traveller line are in the Kingdom, isn't it easily possible by other players to block any progress by ignoring the line?
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: gambit05 on December 05, 2020, 02:56:47 am

I feel that architect is a bit weak... play an action from your hand is equal to +1 Action so its mian selling point is that it plays from discard, and it wouldn't be uncommon early game to not have any actions in the discard.

Thank you for your feedback. You have pointed out Architect’s abilities exactly the way it was intended to be. Architect without (or even with) context might be a bit weak, but that is meant to be part of the challenge to find a way to quickly progress through the Traveller line. This also encourages entering the line multiple times. The idea is that the top-decking abilities of Archer (and Herder) can manipulate when certain Action cards are in the discard. The "play from discard" is indeed the main ability; play from hand is meant to serve as a back up. Thanks.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: grrgrrgrr on December 05, 2020, 08:08:03 am
(https://i.imgur.com/jrgFfva.png)

I think this one fits right here. The above-the-line part is intended to be simple and not overly impactful. The main feature should be the below-the-line part.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: segura on December 05, 2020, 08:22:12 am
I just had a quick look without trying to understand all the interactions and whether cards are balanced or not, but two things I realised immediately:

1) Since this is supposed to be a contribution to the Adventures expansion, the usage of Coffers looks out of place.
2) Assuming no Attack cards other than those of this Traveller line are in the Kingdom, isn't it easily possible by other players to block any progress by ignoring the line?
About the Coffers, they matter due to the swinginess of Mauler. But of course one can nerf Mauler and make Coins out of it.

I guess you refer to Cavalry. Putting the card on the Tavern mat is an option, it is not mandatory.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: silverspawn on December 05, 2020, 09:26:49 am
I've also designed a traveler line, this one with a somewhat different story.

(https://i.ibb.co/jRsNH2n/Orphan.png)  (https://i.ibb.co/C5FBMp2/Servant.png)
(https://i.ibb.co/h1CHmsw/Wanderer.png) (https://i.ibb.co/5Yr6RJZ/Night-Owl.png)
                           (https://i.ibb.co/CVZCNPy/Sorceress.png)

You can buy extra Orphans to activate your later travelers more often.

Edit: Ugh, I notice the 'not in the supply) thing is missing; I'll edit that in later.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Xen3k on December 05, 2020, 09:44:26 am
I've also designed a traveler line, this one with a somewhat different story.

(https://i.ibb.co/jRsNH2n/Orphan.png)  (https://i.ibb.co/C5FBMp2/Servant.png)
(https://i.ibb.co/h1CHmsw/Wanderer.png) (https://i.ibb.co/5Yr6RJZ/Night-Owl.png)
                           (https://i.ibb.co/CVZCNPy/Sorceress.png)

You can buy extra Orphans to activate your later travelers more often.

Edit: Ugh, I notice the 'not in the supply) thing is missing; I'll edit that in later.

I like the Traveler series, but I am afraid Night cards would not be a valid type for Adventure, as I understand the rules. The design challenge is still to make something that could have been added to the set upon the sets release, afaik.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: gambit05 on December 05, 2020, 09:53:42 am
I just had a quick look without trying to understand all the interactions and whether cards are balanced or not, but two things I realised immediately:

1) Since this is supposed to be a contribution to the Adventures expansion, the usage of Coffers looks out of place.
2) Assuming no Attack cards other than those of this Traveller line are in the Kingdom, isn't it easily possible by other players to block any progress by ignoring the line?
About the Coffers, they matter due to the swinginess of Mauler. But of course one can nerf Mauler and make Coins out of it.

I guess you refer to Cavalry. Putting the card on the Tavern mat is an option, it is not mandatory.

Oh yes, I missed that little detail. I just saw Reserve and my brain concluded this has to go to the Tavern mat. I should have read your cards more carefully before commenting. So yes, this shouldn't be a problem. Sorry.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: silverspawn on December 05, 2020, 10:06:01 am
Aw :( But that makes sense. I don't want to change them (I like the night switch), so I'll keep them around to use once they qualify for a WDC challenge and design a new entry for this one.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: gambit05 on December 05, 2020, 10:33:22 am
Aw :( But that makes sense. I don't want to change them (I like the night switch), so I'll keep them around to use once they qualify for a WDC challenge and design a new entry for this one.

You should also add (This is not in the Supply.) to the cards.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: gambit05 on December 05, 2020, 10:50:40 am
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50681095922_7e217fba4f_b.jpg)

Quote
Street Illusionist - $4
Action - Command - Reserve
Choose one: Put this on your Tavern mat; or play a non-Command, non-Reserve Action card from your Tavern mat, leaving it there.
----
Directly after you finish playing a Non-Duration Action card, you may call this to put it on your Tavern mat.

A build your own Band of Misfits. Certainly slower than Band, but can play cards of any cost as long as you have bought one and sent it to the Tavern. Really not sure if the price is correct. I think $3 would be too little, but with the amount of work needed to just make it functional, $5 would be too much. Feedback is more than welcome!

This looks like a very nice concept. I think it shouldn't cost $3, but that it may be even too strong for $4. Once you have a key Action card on the Tavern mat, you could just play it afterward with a bunch of Street Illusionists and some Village support. The point is that a lot of the strong cards (e.g. Junkers) are terminal and on the mat they do not hinder your deck.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Timinou on December 05, 2020, 06:59:06 pm
I decided to go the Traveller route, because why pass up the opportunity to subject you all to five mediocre cards instead of just one!  :P
The theme is inspired by classic fairy tales, so it might stray a little bit outside of the feel of Adventures.

(https://i.imgur.com/rjrunDR.png)(https://i.imgur.com/C3NlwN0.png)(https://i.imgur.com/19ZL2W0.png)(https://i.imgur.com/xAds7ks.png)(https://i.imgur.com/96YiNbj.png)

Pied Piper: A fairly nondescript card which is probably more interesting when playing with certain Kingdom cards from other expansions, but in any case, you're probably buying this for the upgrades.

Master Cat: My stab at converting Inheritance into a card.  Rules clarification: if you have already set aside a card using either Master Cat or Inheritance, and you play Master Cat again, return the previously set aside card to its supply pile.

Huntsman: I toyed with the idea of discarding all revealed Curses, but felt that might be too strong.  Could be possible to combo this with Master Cat.

Robin Hood: Noble Brigand variant.  You could stack these to force opponents to discard all their Golds and Silvers, but the idea here is that "poor" players only get hit once by this attack since they have only one -1 token.   

Rumplestiltskin: The main idea here was to be able to build a powerful engine with Giants or Rangers, but it also needed to give you an alternative to ensure that this remains useful in a game without other cards/events that use Journey tokens. 
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Gubump on December 05, 2020, 10:38:22 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/IehXdT9.png)

Cavalry is already an existing official card (in Menagerie).
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: silverspawn on December 06, 2020, 09:55:56 am
Alright, here is my new simpler submission:

(https://i.ibb.co/61r7p8n/Royal-Chamber.png)
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: segura on December 06, 2020, 01:51:51 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/IehXdT9.png)

Cavalry is already an existing official card (in Menagerie).
I made the line before Menagerie. Double names are a non-issue, at the slim chances of two identically named cards appearing in a random Kingdom, you simply exchange one with the other.
At least that makes far more sense to me than destroying thematically flavour (which would occur if I renamed Cavalry).
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Xen3k on December 06, 2020, 02:53:13 pm
posted in error.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: silverspawn on December 06, 2020, 03:07:45 pm
This is supposed to be for the WDC, right?
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Xen3k on December 06, 2020, 03:11:35 pm
Dangit, yes. Thanks.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: X-tra on December 11, 2020, 11:37:09 am
24 HOUR WARNING
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: majiponi on December 11, 2020, 07:01:19 pm
Collector
cost $5 - Action
You may put a card on your Tavern Mat whose copy is not there, from your hand. +$1 per a differently named card on your Tavern Mat.


Harvest variant.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: D782802859 on December 11, 2020, 08:35:51 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/DF8boZv.png?1)
EDIT: Replaced with
(https://i.imgur.com/vLNvp0x.png)
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: segura on December 12, 2020, 01:57:13 am
Collector
cost $5 - Action
You may put a card on your Tavern Mat whose copy is not there, from your hand. +$1 per a differently named card on your Tavern Mat.


Harvest variant.
Looks far inferior to Bounty Hunter which is nonterminal and whose early Coin spikes help you more.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: silverspawn on December 12, 2020, 03:28:32 am
Collector
cost $5 - Action
You may put a card on your Tavern Mat whose copy is not there, from your hand. +$1 per a differently named card on your Tavern Mat.


Harvest variant.
Looks far inferior to Bounty Hunter which is nonterminal and whose early Coin spikes help you more.

I think the better comparison here is Miser.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: segura on December 12, 2020, 06:26:31 am
I don’t think so. Miser has the trade-off between setting Copper aside and getting Coins whereas this, like Bounty Hunter, not. Also, Miser sets aside only one card whereas this wants to set aside differently named stuff. Like Bounty Hunter.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Gubump on December 12, 2020, 06:34:15 am
Collector
cost $5 - Action
You may put a card on your Tavern Mat whose copy is not there, from your hand. +$1 per a differently named card on your Tavern Mat.


Harvest variant.
Looks far inferior to Bounty Hunter which is nonterminal and whose early Coin spikes help you more.

I think the better comparison here is Miser.

It's frankly a weak comparison to Miser as well. Miser isn't limited to one copy of each differently named card, so it can get up to (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/b/bc/Coin7.png/16px-Coin7.png) by getting rid of all your starting Coppers. Collector can only get rid of one Estate and one Copper, and would need to eventually start getting rid of good cards from your deck if you wanted it to reach the same potential value as Miser.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: grrgrrgrr on December 12, 2020, 06:38:19 am
(https://i.imgur.com/DF8boZv.png?1)

This is extremely similar to Gear and compares extremely favorably to that card.

Collector
cost $5 - Action
You may put a card on your Tavern Mat whose copy is not there, from your hand. +$1 per a differently named card on your Tavern Mat.


Harvest variant.
Looks far inferior to Bounty Hunter which is nonterminal and whose early Coin spikes help you more.

I think this card can be a nice payload on Shelter games or Ruins games, and is definitely able to distinguish itself from Miser and Bounty Hunter. That said, it will be pretty weak on average.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: D782802859 on December 12, 2020, 09:20:41 am
Changing my submission to make it a bit more unique
(https://i.imgur.com/vLNvp0x.png)
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: majiponi on December 12, 2020, 10:16:22 am
Collector
cost $5 - Action
You may put a card on your Tavern Mat whose copy is not there, from your hand. +$1 per a differently named card on your Tavern Mat.


Harvest variant.
Looks far inferior to Bounty Hunter which is nonterminal and whose early Coin spikes help you more.

I think this card can be a nice payload on Shelter games or Ruins games, and is definitely able to distinguish itself from Miser and Bounty Hunter. That said, it will be pretty weak on average.

Compared to Miser, it earns $ even if you put on Tavern mat, can put Distant Lands, Duplicate, Teaches without spending another Action, and can earn $4 or $5 easily with Reserve cards. Not so weak.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: segura on December 12, 2020, 11:00:31 am
Shelters, Ruins, Heirlooms and Reserve cards, i.e. stuff that you want to put on your Tavern mat or that already is there do indeed make the card good. But it is nonetheless extremely weak (and if there is a half-way decent trasher in those Kingdoms, it is most likely the better choice).
So are Miser and Poor House but they don’t compete with the good stuff at the $5 level. That is the real issue.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: X-tra on December 12, 2020, 02:11:14 pm
Errr, poop. So the judging will happen tomorrow, I'm afraid. 2 days after the date I set to myself (and that was already 2 days past the usual 1 week limit)! Sorry 'bout that guys. Adventures is pretty hefty with its cool Travellers and time is always oh so rare. I apologise about them stupid excuses. :)
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: X-tra on December 13, 2020, 01:31:26 pm
CONTEST 10 RESULTS

Uhhh yeah. I’m late as hell with this one. But I tried to be thorough with every entry. Adventures is a nice canvas for cool idea, and you guys did not fail to deliver! So let’s see what we’ve got there, in submitting order:



(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/5/5d/Coin0.png) Homage (Event)
Once per turn: Discard a Victory card from your hand to gain a cheaper card.
Pretty interesting. But this also looks pretty strong. It guarantees that dud hands will always have an okay to good payoff, granted that you have another Victory card than Estate in your hand. For instance, a hand limited by a Duchy means that you can at least gain a card costing up to (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/2/2a/Coin4.png) that turn, making Homage effectively act as Alms. Likewise, if you have a handful of Provinces, then Homage is pretty much better than Advance, an Event I find strong to begin with. And that’s not even to mention Colonies! Even if you can only buy this once per turn (and it’s a good thing you thought about putting that limit), this is still incredibly powerful, especially if you have another or multiple other Buys to spend.
Provided you greened early (and you probably will be incited to do that with Homage around), if you have, for instance (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/7/7d/Coin5.png) and 2 Buys during your Buy phase, you could discard a Province for, like, a King’s Court and use that (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/7/7d/Coin5.png) to buy yourself a nice Action card. Not a bad turn for someone who started to clog their deck with Provinces early on.
And finally, I’ll just say that discarding a Colony into a Province is pretty lol.

(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/2/2a/Coin4.png) Catalyst (Action – Reserve)
+1 Action
Put this on your Tavern mat.
-----
When you gain an Action card, you may call this to immediately play it.
This is totally unrelated to your card, but I gotta point that out first: I hate the good ol’ Reserve card’s on-call ambiguities. Since the on-call clause always refers to the Reserve card itself, the “it” after is always a little bit ambiguous. It may refer to the Reserve card that just got called. I think the best way to avoid that would’ve been to say “to immediately play that Action card”, like Royal Carriage does.
Okay, I’m done rambling, hahaha! Sorry ‘bout that. Catalyst is not only cool on paper, it actually sounds pretty useful and pretty interesting to use! It fills a Reserve niche that cannot be found within Adventures. Royal Carriage being its closest counterpart, but even then, that’s pushing the envelope. To me, this would be a decent open on a 4/3 split. Maybe your first (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/7/7d/Coin5.png) could be immediately played if your first shuffle was quite right. And with nasty Attacks like Mountebank or Cultist, Catalyst shines.

(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/3/3d/Coin2.png) Astronomer (Action – Reserve)
+1 Action
Put this on your Tavern mat.
-----
When you shuffle, you may call this, to first pick one of the cards and put it into your hand. After shuffling, discard this.
Hehehe, two stop Reserve card with the same above the line statement in a row :) ! This is a nice little utility card. Where you would have (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/3/3d/Coin2.png), you’d probably get this because why not. I’d be happier to invest a dud (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/3/3d/Coin2.png) hand into an Astronomer than, say, a Pearl Diver. I pretty much always buy Star Chart, so I don’t see why I wouldn’t pick up a couple of Astronomers along the way as well. While weaker than Star Chart, it’s not something I’m unhappy to put in my deck.

Since the card move itself to the discard pile from the play area, there are ways to create infinite loops with this card. For instance, if it has your +Card token on it (and coincidentally, we’re judging Adventures here), you could rotate 3 copies of Astronomer. One card being in your hand, one being on your Tavern mat and one being a lone card in your discard pile with an empty deck. Play the Astronomer in your hand, get the Astronomer from your discard pile to your hand and put the Astronomer that was on your Tavern mat into your discard pile. You’ve got the same conditions that you had before, thus creating an infinite loop. Not sure you’d get anything out of that, but that’s a thing that you can do regardless. I guess with a +(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/f/f7/Coin1.png) token on Astronomer, you’d get some resources. But the setup is hard.

(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/2/2a/Coin4.png) Horde (Action – Attack – Duration)
Turn your Journey token over (it starts face up). If it’s face down, each other player takes their -1 Card token. If it’s face up, each other player gets +1 Card, then discards down to 3 cards in hand. At the start of your next turn, +2 Cards.
A weaker Enchantress bonus for whoever plays it for (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/f/f7/Coin1.png) more. So how does the Attack fares to make up for that? Well, it fluctuates between a Margrave without a +Buy and a terminal Relic. Because it’s marginally weaker than both of these, I’m pretty confident the power level is okay. It is true that Adventures does not come with any discarding Attack, so this fits a cool niche on that end. While a little wordy, the card seems fine. After all, it’s not any worse than Giant! Quick notice on how cool the two Attacks merge with each other when you play 2 Hordes in one turn (-1 Card token negates the Margrave draw, harr harr)!

(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/2/2a/Coin4.png) [Name] (Action)
+1 Card
+1 Action
You may trash this to move your +1 Card, +1 Action, + (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/f/f7/Coin1.png), or +1 Buy token to this pile.
Awww, I would’ve really appreciated if this card came with a name. To me, it is part of the whole task of designing a card. But I digress.

Quick notice on wording: It might just be me, but I think it would’ve been sliiiightly more precise if it said “to the [Name] pile” instead of “to this pile”. Also, IRL, following the conviention laid out by Teacher, this card would’ve been wordier, since the tokens’ function has to be explained afterwards: “(When you play a card from that pile, you first get that bonus.)”. I guess that stuff exists to make timing on triggering effect easier to pinpoint.

Now, onto the card! I like it. It is sort of a spiritual counterpart to Donald’s idea of having a card that upgrades itself which ultimately ended up as the Traveller lines. Here, the idea is executed well. And no need for 20 extra cards with weird exchanging rules to make it work! As a rule of thumb, I expect the +1 Card token to be put there first for a nice Lab. Physically though, I do worry about how many cardboard chits are going to be accumulated on that pile, lol. On paper, I guess that it’s 10 token max (10 [Name] to trash in total), but in practice, Lurker, Rogue and Gravedigger exist.

(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/7/7d/Coin5.png) Paladin (Action – Reserve)
+2 Cards
+1 Action
Discard up to 2 cards. For each card you discarded, choose one: +1 Action; +1 Buy; or + (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/f/f7/Coin1.png). Put this on your Tavern mat.
-----
At the start of your turn, you may discard a card to discard this from your Tavern mat.
This card really toys around the idea of discarding. Since putting this bad boy on your Tavern Mat is mandatory, that alone would make it weaker than Laboratory since Paladin being there is a liability for you. So in order for Paladin to make your money’s worth, you need to milk it for its bonuses, otherwise you paid for something that was overpriced. ‘Course, the bonuses here are the on-play Vanilla perks when you discard cards from your hand. They’re good. Better than Vault, even. The available choices make Paladin pretty flexible. Coupled with the +2 Cards, you have more chance to draw dead/useless cards you’d like to discard, AND coupled with the +1 Action, then you don’t need to always choose the “+1 Action” discarding choice in a pinch (something stuff like Pawn suffers from).

Quote
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/3/3d/Coin2.png) Archer (Action – Traveller)
When you gain a card this turn, you may put it onto your deck.
-----
When you discard this from play, you may exchange it for an Architect.
Quote
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/a/a9/Coin3star.png) Architect (Action – Traveller)
Look through your discard pile. You may play an Action card from it or from your hand.
-----
When you discard this from play, you may exchange it for a Herder.
(This is not in the Supply.)
Quote
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/5/54/Coin4star.png) Herder (Action – Attack – Traveller)
Each other player discards down to 3 cards in hand.
-----
When you discard this from play, you may exchange it for a Nymph and you may put another card you discard from play onto your deck.
(This is not in the Supply.)
Quote
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/8/86/Coin5star.png) Nymph (Action – Reserve – Traveller)
+4 Cards
Put this on your Tavern mat.
-----
At the start of your turn, you may call this, to exchange it for a Suitor. If you don’t, +1 Card and +1 Buy.
(This is not in the Supply.)
Quote
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/6/60/Coin6star.png) Suitor (Action – Duration)
At the start of each of your turns, set aside the top 5 cards of your deck. Play an Action card from them twice. Discard any number of the remaining cards and put the rest back in any order.
Heyyyy our first Traveller line! ‘Kay so I now regret being Adventures’ judge now, hahahaha!

So, oof, lots of interesting concepts going on here! First, the theme: It’s cool as shit and sits comfortably among the other cool creatures and heroes and all of that from Adventures.

The first guy in the line, Archer, is fine with its Royal Seal-esque effects. Meanwhile, Architect is weak-sauce. Sometimes, you’ll just take the Ruined Village effect to move toward Suitor. Herder is a combo of Militia and Scheme, and seems pretty neat-o to me. It’s weird that the bottom clause is different than the usual one found in Travellers. I hope people won’t forget the Scheme thingy on that one! Nymph, meanwhile, is pretty dang cool. You only ever get the Hunting Grounds once with it. Its on-call effect is pretty nifty. It encourages you to play with a couple of Nymphs. One to be upgraded into a Suitor, and like one or two others to make you effortlessly have a Warf-like effect. Because of Nymph, I know I’d get into a couple of Archers myself!

Now, onto the big guy of this line, Suitor. It is incredibly powerful. Yes, I will take a Night Watchman and Citadel chimera, please! I gueeeess one of the only downfalls of this card, if you could call it that, is that the card played twice cannot interact with the other 4 revealed cards. Sometimes, maybe this will matter. But you’re probably fine regardless. Well, overall, I do like Suitor, even if it maaaaaybe is a tad too OP!

(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/2/2a/Coin4.png) Street Illusionist (Action – Command – Reserve)
Choose one: Put this on your Tavern mat; or play a non-Command, non-Reserve Action card from your Tavern mat, leaving it there.
-----
Directly after you finish playing a Non-Duration Action card, you may call this to put it on your Tavern mat.
This card doesn’t really roll off the tongue at first glance. There’s a lot of “Non-[…]” in there. Non-Command, non-Reserve, non-Duration… and they’re not in the same chunk of this card, some of these conditions being above the dividing line and some under. Likewise, the bottom clause had me severely confused at first. Even though my miscomprehension was short lived, I for but a moment believed that after playing an Action card, you could call a Street Illusionist to re-put that same Illusionist on your Tavern mat. But of course, that’s balderdash; this card wouldn’t work with this understanding.

I think you are correct in assuming that this plays slow. You’ve got to invest in a Street Illusionist and in a, hopefully, powerful (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/7/7d/Coin5.png) card for this to start doing its thing. With multiple (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/7/7d/Coin5.png) cards on your Tavern mat, the flexibility makes Street Illusionist even better. But… you do lose the cards you initially invested in. Again, that’s a huge opportunity cost. I mean, I think at this point I’d rather take the (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/d/d4/Debt8.png) hit from Overlord and be able to freely play (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/7/7d/Coin5.png) cards from the Supply without much effort.

The idea of a Reserve emulator card is pretty neat, I’ll say this much. But as it is, and perhaps because of the limiting nature of this competition, it seems a little convoluted in its current form.

Quote
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/3/32/Coin3.png) Infantryman (Action – Attack – Traveller)
+(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/f/f7/Coin1.png) per Infantryman in play. Each other player may discard a card. If they don’t, they gain a Copper to their hand.
-----
When you discard this from play, you may exchange it for an Archer.
Quote
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/5/54/Coin4star.png) Archer (Action – Reaction – Traveller)
Reveal a card from your hand. For each type it has, trash a card from your hand.
-----
When another player plays an Attack card, you may first reveal this from your hand, to be unaffected by it.
-----
When you discard this from play, you may exchange it for a Cavalry.
(This is not in the Supply.)
Quote
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/8/86/Coin5star.png) Cavalry (Action – Reserve – Traveller)
+3 Cards
You may put this on your Tavern mat.
-----
When another player plays an Attack card, you may call this for +3 Cards.
-----
When you discard this from play, you may exchange it for a Mauler.
(This is not in the Supply.)
Quote
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/6/60/Coin6star.png) Mauler (Action – Attack – Looter – Traveller)
Each other player trashes an Action card from their hand (or reveals they can’t). If they did, they gain a Ruins to their hand. Choose one of the trashed cards: +1 Coffers per (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/f/f7/Coin1.png) it costs.
-----
When this is trashed, trash the card that caused it.
-----
When you discard this from play, you may exchange it for a General.
(This is not in the Supply.)
Quote
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/f/fa/Coin7star.png) General (Action)
+1 Card
+1 Action
+(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/3/3d/Coin2.png)
-----
While this is in play, when another player gains or discard a card, they put it onto their deck instead. When you play an Attack, +1 Action.
(This is not in the Supply.)
As you have mentioned, you have created this Traveller line before this week’s competition. As such, certain elements, in my opinion, feels disjointed with the task at hand: to create a card (or here, a set of cards, I guess) that fits within an official release. As if we’re all mini Donalds trying to find an actual perfect fit (or close to) for something intended to be put on a shelf in actual stores. If tweaking this line would make it lose its intended purpose, then I suppose it wasn’t too much of a good fit for this week’s challenge. But anyway, let’s take a closer look…

Infantryman opens the whole line with a cool idea. And it starts at (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/3/32/Coin3.png), which is pretty novel for a Traveller line. Who said they couldn’t follow the “standardised” price?

Archer, Cavalry and Mauler, well… I dunno. I’m not a big fan of double dividing lines on card. Since none can be found in actual Dominion expansion after 13 expansions, I think it’s safe to say that this sort of design wouldn’t fit within an official release as well. Now don’t get me wrong, Archer and Cavalry are super cool! I especially love Archer as an interesting and still yet to be seen trasher. As for Cavalry, if the name bothered some people because of Menagerie’s Cavalry, I guess it could’ve been renamed something like “Horseback Rider” or “Courser” or w/e. :)

Mauler is not only a behemoth of a card, but it is also the one that’s the most out of its element. Ruins? Coffers? Adventures ain’t Dark Ages or Guilds. I know the Ruins are there to give people an opportunity to trash them instead of sacrificing their more valuable Action cards. It’s pretty clever. It’s just unfortunate that it’s out of style with Adventures.

General is uh, weird with Infantryman and Mauler. Where do the gained cards as a result of the Attacks actually go with General in play? Their hand or on top their deck? Who has the highest priority? At first glance, it isn’t an easy answer. I’m going to go on a limb and suspect that the gained cards actually go on their deck, since I guess it seems to me you wanted General to worsen the Attacks of his own line. If I’m wrong about this suspicion, well, it proves that it’s indeed a complicated interaction. It is interesting that this card benefits from the Attacks within this line and said Attacks benefit from the General. This symbiosis makes you want to invest in a couple of Infantryman, who themselves also benefit from each other’s presence. Honestly, it’s really clever!

(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/5/5d/Coin0.png) Salesman (Event)
Once per turn: +(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/f/f7/Coin1.png)
-----
Setup: Choose a random Action Supply pile. At the start of the game, all players move their +Buy token to that pile.
Haha, cute and interesting little Event we got there! And, the theme, lol. Adventures, as in: Link goes on an Adventure :) ! So the idea here is quite elegant: An extra Buy to fuel an extra (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/f/f7/Coin1.png) to buy something else. It reminds me of Borrow somehow. Borrow can be bought at any time welly nelly, at the cost of a decreased hand size next turn. Here, Salesman needs you to search for an extra Buy to actually work. The setup clause is brilliant. You’ll always get that extra Buy somewhere in the Supply. But will it be on a card that actually works in your deck? Exciting!

Quote
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/3/3d/Coin2.png) Pied Piper (Action – Traveller)
+2 Cards
If you have 2 copies of a card in your hand, you may trash them.
-----
When you discard this from play, you may exchange it for a Master Cat.
Quote
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/a/a9/Coin3star.png) Master Cat (Action – Traveller)
+1 Action
Set aside a non-Command Action card from the Supply costing up to (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/2/2a/Coin4.png). Move your Estate token to it. While this is in play, Estates are also Actions with “Play the card with your Estate token, leaving it there”.
-----
When you discard this from play, you may exchange it for a Huntsman.
(This is not in the Supply.)
Quote
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/5/54/Coin4star.png) Huntsman (Action – Traveller)
+1 Card
+1 Action
Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal a Victory card. Put it into your hand, trash up to one revealed Curse and discard the rest.
-----
When you discard this from play, you may exchange it for a Robin hood.
(This is not in the Supply.)
Quote
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/8/86/Coin5star.png) Robin Hood (Action – Attack – Traveller)
+(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/3/32/Coin3.png)
Each other player discards a Gold or a Silver from their hand, or reveals a hand with no Golds or Silvers and takes their -(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/f/f7/Coin1.png) token.
-----
When you discard this from play, you may exchange it for a Rumpelstiltskin.
(This is not in the Supply.)
Quote
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/6/60/Coin6star.png) Rumpelstiltskin (Action – Duration)
At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game, choose one: Gain a Gold to your hand; or turn your Journey token over (it starts face up).
(This stays in play. This is not in the Supply.)
Woah, Pied Piper is super strong! Trashers that draw always tend to be. Yeah you’ll get to keep one lone Estate and one lone Copper (due to their uneven nature in your starting deck), but my oh my what a deal for (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/3/3d/Coin2.png)! Pied Piper doesn’t need the rest of its line, it’s holding out strong on its own!

Woah Nelly, Master Cat is one wordy boi! So, it is a non-terminal Inheritance! What! This is crazy good! And also, crazily unsupported by its predecessor, Pied Piper. These two cards don’t seem to work too well together. I mean, so does Hero and Treasure Hunter against Champion in the Page Traveller line, but this is because this line is so powerful that it needs to be slowed down a tad. Here, Pied Piper just sabotages Master Cat. Or it seems indicative of that, rather.

Cool Attack with Robin Hood! Very thematic too. I guess Noble Brigand was one of Robin Hood’s goons all along, hahaha! Not much to say here beside that I like this Attack. S’neat.

The last guy in the line, Rumpelstiltskin, is a sort of Bag of Gold variant. Again, not unlike Pied Piper vs Master Cat, this seems to invalidate a lot of Robin Hood’s power. But the bonus is fine, it’s totally fine! I just… I don’t understand what the Journey token does there? To avoid you getting Gold if you didn’t want to clutter your deck? Either it should have given a bonus if it’s face-up (or down, w/e), or it should have just not been there, imo. Right now, it seems tacked on for no reason.

(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/7/7d/Coin5.png) Royal Chamber (Action)
Turn your journey token over (it starts face-up). Then if it’s face up, you may play an Action card from your hand costing less than this four time.
Oh thank God you wrote “that costs less than this”. We do not want Royal Chambers to start playing other Royal Chambers and aaaahhhh! Note that, in my opinion, this is still a pretty strong card. A terminal Silver (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/2/2a/Coin4.png) Action card will always be a Province, for instance. A simple stupid little Cantrip pumps out Actions and draws way more than it thought it could, which in turns allow you to play other Royal Chambers to turn that Journey token all over again.

Another nerf is that it has to collide with another Action card (and a legal one too) for this to work. So does Throne Room and King’s Court. But this has an even longer buffer time for it to work again, because of the Journey token. And the Actions it can play are more limited too. So drawing it in a dud hand is even more feelsbad. Still, I like Royal Chamber!

(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/7/7d/Coin5.png) Collector (Action)
You may put a card on your Tavern mat whose copy is not there, from your hand. +(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/f/f7/Coin1.png) per differently named cards on your Tavern Mat.
Adventures and Cornucopia’s love child!
I think I’m going to have to side with people who claimed that this is weak here. Especially for a (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/7/7d/Coin5.png) card. This has, of course, the Miser problem of being slow to begin with. And since it is so limited in how it can remove cards from your hand, it’s pretty weak at that too. Miser gets rid of stuff you didn’t want to begin with and profits out of that. Here, you’ll get one Copper and one Estate out, hardly a cool way of getting your deck under control. And because it costs (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/7/7d/Coin5.png), in a 3/4 split, it’ll even take you longer to get there. It’s true that it can also get rid of a Province, a Duchy and even a Silver, stuff that usually have more benefit for you being on your Tavern mat, but it’s pretty late in the game for it to spike by that point.

(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/2/2a/Coin4.png) Alehouse (Action – Reserve)
Put the top 3 cards of your deck on your Tavern mat. You may put this on your Tavern mat.
-----
At the start of your turn, you may call this to put any number of non-Reserve cards from your Tavern mat into your hand.
Wow, this seems strong! It is excellent in fact. It filters your deck and gets rid of crap you don’t want in it. AND, not unlike stuff like Bounty Hunter, Island and Sanctuary, it does it without making you lose any (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/9/92/VP.png)! Putting a Province on your Tavern mat is an incredible offer and ensures your deck can keep going even when you green. Alehouse can also easily mega turn, eating your deck and putting it on your Tavern mat, ready to be called when you just want to explode. I guess a limiting factor of this card is that you want it sort of early in your hand. It being at the bottom or close to the bottom of your deck is just maaaaan. Still, despite being terminal, I can’t help but have the feeling that Alehouse compares pretty well to stuff like Archive.



Semi-finalists: Archer line; Horde

Finalists: Paladin; Royal Chamber

Winner: Salesman

Ughhh. Choosing always makes me queasy. I hate having to categorise cards in tiers like this, but a judge’s gotta judge. In the end, I’ve fell in love with the very original Salesman Event, which has a very exciting setup clause. Even if this Event is not too wild and out-there when you buy it, I love it regardless, and can see it having a nice little spot in Adventures. Paladin and Royal Chamber both came close to the top. They’re very interesting cards in themselves. I love their design as well, but uh, only one card can win, unfortunately :-\ . Still, congrats, guys!
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: grrgrrgrr on December 13, 2020, 02:14:55 pm
Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay! Also congratz to the finalists and to X-tra's amazing judging.

Anyway, this week's expansion to is Empires, aka Prosperity 2.0. Your submissions should use at least one of the following mechanics.

* Landmarks 
* VP-tokens
* Debt
* Split piles

Since this is about expanding Empires, the following is off-limits:
* Night cards
* Ways and Projects
* Heirlooms, States and Artifacts
* Cards that use materials that are present in other expansions, but not empires. These materials include, but are not limited to, Teacher tokens, Villagers, Coffers, Boons/Hexes, Spirits, Spoils, Ruins, Horses, the Tavern Mat and the Exile.
* Reserve cards, even if you somehow bypass the need for a Tavern mat.

At this point, there is no objection against the overpay mechanic, or any of the other below-the-line stuff you see on Dominion cards. Travellers are technically acceptable as well (the mechanic is self contained and existed prior to Empires), although the chance of winning with such submission is extremely low.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Jonatan Djurachkovitch on December 14, 2020, 02:11:06 pm
Here's my submission. It uses a mat, but if that's not ok I have a spare card to submit.
Quote
Lease - Action - $3
+2 Cards
Play a Treasure card from your Lease mat and pay its $. +1 VP per $ you paid.
-
When you gain this, put up to two Treasure cards from your hand onto your Lease mat.
Empires has a lot of ways to score alt-vp, and here's another one! This is intresting, since it can be used just to thin, or as a way to score a lot of points, depending on how you use it. And when you're done with it, it just becomes a Moat.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Aquila on December 14, 2020, 03:50:36 pm
Entry:

Quote
Colossus - Landmark
When scoring, count your Action and Treasure cards. -2VP per 1 difference between them.
Build your deck to have a mix of action and Treasure cards. Crown would count as 1 for both so it basically has no effect. Maybe this is boring, but the viable strategies are at least fairly varied in Empires.



Here's my submission. It uses a mat, but if that's not ok I have a spare card to submit.
Quote
Lease - Action - $3
+2 Cards
Play a Treasure card from your Lease mat and pay its $. +1 VP per $ you paid.
-
When you gain this, put up to two Treasure cards from your hand onto your Lease mat.
Empires has a lot of ways to score alt-vp, and here's another one! This is intresting, since it can be used just to thin, or as a way to score a lot of points, depending on how you use it. And when you're done with it, it just becomes a Moat.
By thinning your deck, do you mean temporarily as 2 Coppers are put aside? As it reads, you set aside 2 Treasures onto the mat on gain, then on play take them off the mat, put them in play then discard at Clean-up. It's a very weak niche compared to its VP potential; but that potential is interesting with sacrificing economy temporarily.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Xen3k on December 14, 2020, 09:02:00 pm
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50724498167_a37c4878a7_b.jpg)

Quote
Offerings - $4
+$2
Each player (including you) may discard a card to draw a card.
-
When you discard this other than during Clean-up, you may trash this for +1 Action and +2VP.

Empire is a really difficult set for me to come up with designs, for some reason. Well, this is basically Horse Trader with an alternate reaction effect and no +buy. Best in conjunction with trash for benefits, which Empire actually has quite a few. The discard trigger for the reaction allows it to combo with itself, but relying on Offerings alone to win probably is not the best strategy. Not sure if I like it, but this is what I got for now. Feedback/criticisms would be appreciated.

Edit: Changes have been made. It is now a terminal Silver with a universal discard to draw effect. It no longer gives VP when trashed, only when discarded and then trashed. However, it does give +1 Action when you get the VP. There is a corner case issue in regards to Exile and discarding from it. This has the potential of being busted, but seeing as this is for Empire I am not sure it would be valid to use Exile in the card text.

Quote
OLD VERSION
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50721381496_df09180418_b.jpg)

Quote
Offerings - $4
+$3
Discard 2 cards.
-
When you discard this other than during Clean-up, you may trash this.
When you trash this, +2VP.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Jonatan Djurachkovitch on December 15, 2020, 02:02:03 am
Here's my submission. It uses a mat, but if that's not ok I have a spare card to submit.
Quote
Lease - Action - $3
+2 Cards
Play a Treasure card from your Lease mat and pay its $. +1 VP per $ you paid.
-
When you gain this, put up to two Treasure cards from your hand onto your Lease mat.
Empires has a lot of ways to score alt-vp, and here's another one! This is intresting, since it can be used just to thin, or as a way to score a lot of points, depending on how you use it. And when you're done with it, it just becomes a Moat.
By thinning your deck, do you mean temporarily as 2 Coppers are put aside? As it reads, you set aside 2 Treasures onto the mat on gain, then on play take them off the mat, put them in play then discard at Clean-up. It's a very weak niche compared to its VP potential; but that potential is interesting with sacrificing economy temporarily.
Yeah, I mean that you can use it to set aside coppers temporarily.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: gambit05 on December 15, 2020, 09:54:57 am
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50721381496_df09180418_b.jpg)

Quote
Offerings - $4
+$3
Discard 2 cards.
-
When you discard this other than during Clean-up, you may trash this.
When you trash this, +2VP.

Empire is a really difficult set for me to come up with designs, for some reason. Well, this is basically Horse Trader with an alternate reaction effect and no +buy. Best in conjunction with trash for benefits, which Empire actually has quite a few. The discard trigger for the reaction allows it to combo with itself, but relying on Offerings alone to win probably is not the best strategy. Not sure if I like it, but this is what I got for now. Feedback/criticisms would be appreciated.

I think "...you may trash this for +2VP" is sufficient.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: silverspawn on December 15, 2020, 10:09:05 am
I think the card is too similar to Horse Traders
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: spineflu on December 15, 2020, 10:20:24 am
(https://trello-attachments.s3.amazonaws.com/5f734c336e86cd37f111e3d7/5fd8d2a3ecc8da30681fb9b9/cfcae831673a9acdada55013e32e26d1/image.png)
Quote
Garrison • $4@4 • Action
+5 Cards
+1 Buy
You may trash this and an Action card from your hand, for +1 Action.
-
When this leaves play, take @5. If it is your Clean-Up phase, you may then pay off @.

Capital variant, for draw. hey, does Empires need more "big draw" cards? Imbalanced cards/debt load compared to Capital because cards is more powerful than coins. Nonterminal at the cost of an action card. Especially notable in that its "take debt" clause triggers when it leaves play - no counterfeit capital combos, or mandarin, bonfire, etc. Cost is $6 because (1) no cost reduction in Empires; (2) can't cost $5 because Overlord makes it never enter play; if you work cost reduction + Overlord into the kingdom though, you'll really enjoy that "leaving it there" clause.

EDIT: cost is now $4@4 and the on-leaves-play debt is @5. Should be a better tradeoff.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: gambit05 on December 15, 2020, 03:23:34 pm

My submission:

(https://i.ibb.co/0rG3bH1/Gallery.png)
Gallery
$3 – Action

Quote

   Take up to 3 Debt to discard   
that many cards. Draw until
you have 6 cards in hand.

Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: segura on December 15, 2020, 04:08:20 pm
(https://trello-attachments.s3.amazonaws.com/5f734c336e86cd37f111e3d7/5fd8d2a3ecc8da30681fb9b9/af310faadadf78e60fc938cbba98311d/image.png)
Quote
Garrison • $6 • Action
+5 Cards
+1 Buy
You may trash this and an Action card from your hand, for +1 Action.
-
When this leaves play, take @8. If it is your Clean-Up phase, you may then pay off @.

Capital variant, for draw. hey, does Empires need more "big draw" cards? Imbalanced cards/debt load compared to Capital because cards is more powerful than coins. Nonterminal at the cost of an action card. Especially notable in that its "take debt" clause triggers when it leaves play - no counterfeit capital combos, or mandarin, bonfire, etc. Cost is $6 because (1) no cost reduction in Empires; (2) can't cost $5 because Overlord makes it never enter play; if you work cost reduction + Overlord into the kingdom though, you'll really enjoy that "leaving it there" clause.
8 Coins for 5 cards looks far too harsh. Storyteller does it 1 for 1. I doubt that the Capital style effect, and the fact that you can draw before you play your payload cards, compensates for that.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: grep on December 15, 2020, 04:19:01 pm
A split pile with 5 Tribunes and 5 Tribes, with the unmentioned Gathering feature:

(https://i.ibb.co/zGZtNLM/image.png)(https://i.ibb.co/GP67vmH/image.png)
Tribune
$3 - Action - Gathering
+1 Action
+$1
You may discard a Victory card for +1 Card.
Add 1VP to the Tribune Supply pile.
Tribe
$5 - Victory - Gathering
2VP

When you gain this, if you have any Tribunes
in play, take the VP from the Supply pile.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: silverspawn on December 15, 2020, 04:54:54 pm
8 Coins for 5 cards looks far too harsh. Storyteller does it 1 for 1. I doubt that the Capital style effect, and the fact that you can draw before you play your payload cards, compensates for that.

What would your thoughts be about Capital if you hadn't played with it?
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Xen3k on December 15, 2020, 05:54:57 pm
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50721381496_df09180418_b.jpg)

Quote
Offerings - $4
+$3
Discard 2 cards.
-
When you discard this other than during Clean-up, you may trash this.
When you trash this, +2VP.

Empire is a really difficult set for me to come up with designs, for some reason. Well, this is basically Horse Trader with an alternate reaction effect and no +buy. Best in conjunction with trash for benefits, which Empire actually has quite a few. The discard trigger for the reaction allows it to combo with itself, but relying on Offerings alone to win probably is not the best strategy. Not sure if I like it, but this is what I got for now. Feedback/criticisms would be appreciated.

I think "...you may trash this for +2VP" is sufficient.

I think the card is too similar to Horse Traders

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50723675613_c34f306534_b.jpg) (https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50724498167_a37c4878a7_b.jpg)

Quote
Offerings version A - $4
+$2
Each player (including you) may discard a card to draw a card.
-
When you discard this other than during Clean-up, you may trash this for +1 Action.
If you trash this, +2VP.

Quote
Offerings version B - $4
+$2
Each player (including you) may discard a card to draw a card.
-
When you discard this other than during Clean-up, you may trash this for +1 Action and +2VP.

Ok, worked on a new version, but am trying to decide on version A on the left and Version B on the right. The main difference is that Version A works really well with both Trash for Benefit and Discard effects, but it does have an extra line and may feel like it is trying to do too much.

As for this version, it is now a terminal Silver that gives everyone the option to discard a card to draw a card. That benefit to everyone may be too beneficial to others, but I wanted to see what people thought of it. Criticism and feedback are appreciated.

Edit: I am going with version B on the right for now. Original post updated HERE (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20521.msg859153#msg859153).
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Holger on December 15, 2020, 06:05:17 pm
8 Coins for 5 cards looks far too harsh. Storyteller does it 1 for 1. I doubt that the Capital style effect, and the fact that you can draw before you play your payload cards, compensates for that.

What would your thoughts be about Capital if you hadn't played with it?

Sure, but Capital gives an extra $3 and a buy compared to the more expensive Gold, while Garrison only gives 1 more card and a buy compared to Hunting Grounds.
And Garrison is specifically worded to prevent almost all Capital combos that make it really strong.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: spineflu on December 15, 2020, 07:18:46 pm
(https://trello-attachments.s3.amazonaws.com/5f734c336e86cd37f111e3d7/5fd8d2a3ecc8da30681fb9b9/af310faadadf78e60fc938cbba98311d/image.png)
Quote
Garrison • $6 • Action
+5 Cards
+1 Buy
You may trash this and an Action card from your hand, for +1 Action.
-
When this leaves play, take @8. If it is your Clean-Up phase, you may then pay off @.

Capital variant, for draw. hey, does Empires need more "big draw" cards? Imbalanced cards/debt load compared to Capital because cards is more powerful than coins. Nonterminal at the cost of an action card. Especially notable in that its "take debt" clause triggers when it leaves play - no counterfeit capital combos, or mandarin, bonfire, etc. Cost is $6 because (1) no cost reduction in Empires; (2) can't cost $5 because Overlord makes it never enter play; if you work cost reduction + Overlord into the kingdom though, you'll really enjoy that "leaving it there" clause.
8 Coins for 5 cards looks far too harsh. Storyteller does it 1 for 1. I doubt that the Capital style effect, and the fact that you can draw before you play your payload cards, compensates for that.

For one, it's eight debt, not eight coins; difference being storyteller you have to pay upfront. This pricing puts it on tier with City Quarter, Overlord, etc, but every time its played. Compare  storyteller's $1:1 Card and, say, Overlord:BoM's respective costs; 8 debt is roughly $6.5 coin, by my reckoning. This is also optionally non-terminal , which hunting grounds can't do sans adventure token.

Another comparison you could make with this would be a reverse tactician - take the benefit of tactician now, skip your next turn. That's huge. Surely that costs a province-opportunity?

But, just for giggles, what would you say a fair debt price/cards is to take with this? and/or, would you wanna hop into a TTS game and test it?
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: segura on December 16, 2020, 12:49:50 am
If the average payload card in your deck is Silver, this is on average a Woodcutter.
You cannot straightforwardly compare on gain and on play costs.
The Action trashing thingy is frankly too much and does not really buff the card that enormously. Sure, it is neat in the last turn but blowing up Mining Village for a Double Peddler effect is also neat yet the card is still underwhelming.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: mandioca15 on December 16, 2020, 04:18:30 pm
Lictor (Action, $4)

+1 Card
+1 Action

You may return any number of VP tokens, for +1 Card each.
---
When you gain this, +2VP tokens.

Effectively a Storyteller variant that lets you pay VP tokens for draw, instead of coins. It comes with a couple of such tokens so that this ability is never defunct.

Many other Empires cards deal with VP tokens, so perhaps you can go mad with draws on some boards.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: BBobb on December 16, 2020, 10:44:27 pm
Lictor (Action, $4)

+1 Card
+1 Action

You may return any number of VP tokens, for +1 Card each.
---
When you gain this, +2VP tokens.

Effectively a Storyteller variant that lets you pay VP tokens for draw, instead of coins. It comes with a couple of such tokens so that this ability is never defunct.

Many other Empires cards deal with VP tokens, so perhaps you can go mad with draws on some boards.

Though I am not experienced enough to tell, this card seems very good, probably worthy of being a (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/7/7d/Coin5.png/16px-Coin5.png) cost card. Even if it didn't have the return VP ability, it is a double Great Hall, which is probably too good for (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/2/2a/Coin4.png/16px-Coin4.png) but not enough to be (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/7/7d/Coin5.png/16px-Coin5.png) (though it might be enough to be (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/7/7d/Coin5.png/16px-Coin5.png)). With the ability, it is definitely a (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/7/7d/Coin5.png/16px-Coin5.png) card.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: LibraryAdventurer on December 17, 2020, 04:02:52 am
Quote
Dragonrock
Landmark
At the end of each turn, +1 VP if you took any VP tokens or gained any Estates this turn.
-
At the end of the game, -1 VP for each Province you have.

EDIT: added the bit about gaining Estates.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: gambit05 on December 17, 2020, 04:11:26 am
Quote
Dragonrock
Landmark
At the end of each turn, +1 VP if you took any VP tokens this turn.
-
At the end of the game, -1 VP for each Province you have.

Is it your intention that the top half is useless if there are no cards/events etc in the Kingdom that give VP tokens?
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: LibraryAdventurer on December 18, 2020, 01:04:19 am
Is it your intention that the top half is useless if there are no cards/events etc in the Kingdom that give VP tokens?
Oops. Personally, I wouldn't put it in a kingdom with no VP tokens, but that won't go over well in a contest, so I'll tweak it:

Quote
Dragonrock
Landmark
At the end of each turn, +1 VP if you took any VP tokens or gained any Estates this turn.
-
At the end of the game, -1 VP for each Province you have.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Timinou on December 18, 2020, 01:35:14 pm
I feel like Empires doesn't have enough Attack cards, so here is one that combines the Gathering mechanism with a Cutpurse-style attack:

EDIT: Revised submission:
(https://i.imgur.com/C8ULtTw.png)
Quote
Barbarian
+2 Cards
Add 1VP to the Barbarians Supply pile.  Each other player with 4 or more cards in hand discards a Treasure (or reveals they can't).  If no players discard any Treasures, take the VP from the pile.


Quote from: Original
(https://i.imgur.com/vXXKU0J.png)

Barbarian
+1 Card
+2 Actions
Add 1VP to the Barbarians Supply pile.  Each other player with 4 or more cards in hand discards a Treasure (or reveals a hand with no Treasures).  If no players discard any Treasures, trash this and take the VP from the pile.


It's a bit wordy, so I'm open to any suggestions to make it more streamlined.

I'm still thinking about the cost, and may change it to give only +1 Action.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: silverspawn on December 18, 2020, 01:36:01 pm
I've designed a split pile. For once, the higher cost card is on top, the lower cost at the bottom.

(https://i.ibb.co/cv8fLK9/Carpenter.png)          (https://i.ibb.co/7vDtyFR/Carving.png)
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: gambit05 on December 18, 2020, 02:31:17 pm
I feel like Empires doesn't have enough Attack cards, so here is one that combines the Gathering mechanism with a Cutpurse-style attack:

(https://i.imgur.com/vXXKU0J.png)

Quote
Barbarian
+1 Card
+2 Actions
Add 1VP to the Barbarians Supply pile.  Each other player with 4 or more cards in hand discards a Treasure (or reveals a hand with no Treasures).  If no players discard any Treasures, trash this and take the VP from the pile.


It's a bit wordy, so I'm open to any suggestions to make it more streamlined.

I'm still thinking about the cost, and may change it to give only +1 Action.

Just a tiny bit shorter: "...discards a Treasure (or reveals they can't).  If no player discards a Treasures, ..."

What happens when all other player have less than 4 cards in hand and/or reveal a Moat? No Treasure would be discarded this way. Would this trigger the last part?

Edit: Treasure not Treasures.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Timinou on December 18, 2020, 02:57:48 pm
Just a tiny bit shorter: "...discards a Treasure (or reveals they can't).  If no player discards a Treasures, ..."

Thanks!

Quote
What happens when all other player have less than 4 cards in hand and/or reveal a Moat? No Treasure would be discarded this way. Would this trigger the last part?

Yes.  The idea is that in order to increase your chances of triggering the last part, you would probably want to stack Barbarians.  If there aren't enough VP in the pile for your liking, you could always choose not to play additional Barbarians.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: gambit05 on December 18, 2020, 03:06:27 pm
Just a tiny bit shorter: "...discards a Treasure (or reveals they can't).  If no player discards a Treasures, ..."

Thanks!

Quote
What happens when all other player have less than 4 cards in hand and/or reveal a Moat? No Treasure would be discarded this way. Would this trigger the last part?

Yes.  The idea is that in order to increase your chances of triggering the last part, you would probably want to stack Barbarians.  If there aren't enough VP in the pile for your liking, you could always choose not to play additional Barbarians.

So, that would mean that a single Moat in a 2-player game can cause trashing of the Barbarians for just 1VP.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Timinou on December 18, 2020, 03:52:07 pm
Just a tiny bit shorter: "...discards a Treasure (or reveals they can't).  If no player discards a Treasures, ..."

Thanks!

Quote
What happens when all other player have less than 4 cards in hand and/or reveal a Moat? No Treasure would be discarded this way. Would this trigger the last part?

Yes.  The idea is that in order to increase your chances of triggering the last part, you would probably want to stack Barbarians.  If there aren't enough VP in the pile for your liking, you could always choose not to play additional Barbarians.

So, that would mean that a single Moat in a 2-player game can cause trashing of the Barbarians for just 1VP.

Yes.  I think almost all 5-cost Attack cards still provide some benefit even if it gets blocked by a Moat; in this case you get an extra draw, two Actions and a VP, but at the expense of trashing the card.  I'm still thinking about the top half of the card, because at the same time I don't want it to be too powerful.

Does the presence of a Moat in the Kingdom make Barbarians less attractive?  Certainly, but I think the same could be said for most Attack cards.   
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: gambit05 on December 18, 2020, 04:53:17 pm
Just a tiny bit shorter: "...discards a Treasure (or reveals they can't).  If no player discards a Treasures, ..."

Thanks!

Quote
What happens when all other player have less than 4 cards in hand and/or reveal a Moat? No Treasure would be discarded this way. Would this trigger the last part?

Yes.  The idea is that in order to increase your chances of triggering the last part, you would probably want to stack Barbarians.  If there aren't enough VP in the pile for your liking, you could always choose not to play additional Barbarians.

So, that would mean that a single Moat in a 2-player game can cause trashing of the Barbarians for just 1VP.

Yes.  I think almost all 5-cost Attack cards still provide some benefit even if it gets blocked by a Moat; in this case you get an extra draw, two Actions and a VP, but at the expense of trashing the card.  I'm still thinking about the top half of the card, because at the same time I don't want it to be too powerful.

Does the presence of a Moat in the Kingdom make Barbarians less attractive?  Certainly, but I think the same could be said for most Attack cards.   

Moat is a mediocre card at best and most Attack cards do not fear Moat; they go for a hit and miss and in the long run they usually hit. With Barbarian, it is more about hit or being trashed. Moat is basically becoming better than a $2 cost Knight with self immunity. I think, a potential one-shot is okay, but it is not very attractive when it costs $5 since it cannot be easily replaced.
Anyway, Moat was just an illustrative example. There are quite some other possibilities to avoid the Treasure discarding (some other Reactions, other “defense” cards, hand size is already down, no Treasures in deck anymore).
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: segura on December 18, 2020, 06:17:17 pm
Barbarian is one of those funky cards that is too strong and too weak at the same time. It violates several design principles and consequently and unsurprisingly doesn’t work.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Timinou on December 18, 2020, 06:51:07 pm
Barbarian is one of those funky cards that is too strong and too weak at the same time. It violates several design principles and consequently and unsurprisingly doesn’t work.

What design principles would those be? 
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: segura on December 19, 2020, 01:53:14 am
Don't do a non-terminal Attack for a good reason, don't do a cantrip Attack for a very good reason (Urchin is weak, Familiar is hard to get).
Don't do a Reaction that deflect an Attack or attacks back. Here we have this implemented into the very Attack itself, i.e. Moat or a Treasure-less deck can trash the Attack.

Your notion was probably that these effects cancel each other out. But it doesn't work like that.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Timinou on December 19, 2020, 11:31:22 am
Don't do a non-terminal Attack for a good reason, don't do a cantrip Attack for a very good reason (Urchin is weak, Familiar is hard to get).
Don't do a Reaction that deflect an Attack or attacks back. Here we have this implemented into the very Attack itself, i.e. Moat or a Treasure-less deck can trash the Attack.

Your notion was probably that these effects cancel each other out. But it doesn't work like that.

Thank you for elaborating!  :)
In this case, the reason for making this a cantrip attack was to make it easier to stack them (similar to Urchin).
The intention behind the self-trashing to gain the VP was not specifically to counter Reactions like Moat, but to ensure that the Barbarian hordes don't dominate the game. 

It seems like you and gambit don't like the fact that Barbarians can get trashed by something like Moat.  If I revise Barbarian so that it isn't a cantrip, the trashing isn't necessary.  It loses some of the thematic flavor I was going for, but it addresses some of the issues you both have raised. 

I've updated the original post with a new version of Barbarians:
(https://i.imgur.com/C8ULtTw.png)


Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: grrgrrgrr on December 20, 2020, 06:06:06 am
24 hours left!

(or actually 30-ish since I can't judge before I'm done with work)
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: D782802859 on December 20, 2020, 07:02:38 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/LyrZGn9.png) (https://i.imgur.com/8BFlMW4.png)
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: spineflu on December 21, 2020, 10:26:02 am
made a couple quick balance revisions to Garrison (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20521.msg859173#msg859173) - it now costs $4@4 and its play-penalty is now just @5.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: grrgrrgrr on December 21, 2020, 04:13:37 pm
EMPIRES EXTENSION CONTEST - RESULTS

Lots of cool ideas here. But there can be only one winner. These are the results.

Lease (Action, $3)
+2 Cards
Play a Treasure card from your Lease mat and pay its $. +1 VP per $ you paid.
-
When you gain this, put up to two Treasure cards from your hand onto your Lease mat.

First of all, the phrasing. More specifically, the phrase Play a Treasure card from your Lease mat and pay its $. There is a reason you don't see this on official cards, as this gets very confusing when there are Treasures that let you play other cards. And although Capitalism didn't exist on Empire's release, Crown did and is even part of Empires. As such, it's better to base the effect on the price of the Treasure.

About the effect itself, it looks rather underpowered. If the Lease mat only contains Coppers, playing a Lease yields +2 Cards +1 VP; not very inspiring. And if you wanna use Lease on better Treasures, well, you you have to forego the effect of the Treasure itself for one turn. Not to mention that if you buy a Lease and want to use the below-bar effect in its fullest, you have to forego a $5 purchase.

It still can be nice in niche situations, especially in the presence of Ironmonger or Villa, but overall, it looks a little too underwhelming. The fact that there are only 10 of those also limits its capability in being a pseudo Bishop.

Colossus (Landmark)
When scoring, count your Action and Treasure cards. -2VP per 1 difference between them.

This one looks pretty nice. It is decent at discouraging the spam of Villages and Caravans. On the other hand, crafting a nice engine is part of the fun in Dominion, and discouraging that leads can lead to the more boring/luck dependent kind of games.

Another thing is that this landmark will probably render Duchies and Estates obsolete as late game points, and Golds and Silvers (and even Coppers) also get the job done for a while, transforming the dynamics even further. Luckily, this works only temporarily (an not until THESE piles run out) as you don't want Treasures to outnumber the Actions.

Lastly, in the absense of Copper trashing, this could very well just act as a Bandit Fort that penalizes the likes of Platina and Relics as well. Overall, it looks like a respectable Landmark. FINALIST

Offerings (Action - Reaction, $4)
+$2
Each player (including you) may discard a card to draw a card.
-
When you discard this other than during Clean-up, you may trash this for +1 Action and +2VP.

I think you kinda messed up the above the part by making it apply to all players, since this effect is generally going to be way more useful for the opponent than the player. And given that this is just a $4 costing terminal Silver, I don't see why this couldn't just apply to the user itself. With the current effect, it's going to be an extremely hard sell.

The below-the-line effect looks OK-ish; as VP without taking a spot in your deck is quite nice, but Emporium looks so much more appealing in that regard. And for making discarders non-terminal, the newly introduced Village Green outclasses this by a severe margin (although Island is also pretty badly outclassed by several Menagerie cards).

Garrison (Action, $4@4)
+5 Cards
+1 Buy
You may trash this and an Action card from your hand, for +1 Action.
-
When this leaves play, take 5 Debt. If it is your Clean-Up phase, you may then pay off Debt.

Overall, the last minute change is an improvement. However, at this state, it is a more expansive Royal Blacksmith. Although it doesn't have the annoying property of discarding Coppers, the 5 Dept most definitely compensates for that in the long run. It also severely limits this card's early game potential, considering getting this card probably mandates debt as well.

The comparisons to Storyteller are cut short thanks to this card being terminal. The "extra" ability to get +1 Action barely seems to be worth including as removing this card AND an other action is an extremely tall order.

Lastly, does it even make sense for this card to be in the same set as Royal Blacksmith?

Gallery (Action, $3)
Take up to 3 Debt to discard that many cards. Draw until you have 6 cards in hand.

Hey, it's Watchtower that exchanges its Reaction for an optional ability to get more out of this card. With Festival or Fishing Village, this extra ability can turn this card into a pretty fierce drawing machine. However, Debt can be pretty costly and trying to replace your Estates with Coppers is not going to be very meaningful. Overall, a very nice way to get a new version of Watchtower and use de Debt mechanic in a method that isn't present in any of the official cards. FINALIST

Tribune (Action - Gathering, $3)
+1 Action
+$1
You may discard a Victory card for +1 Card. Add 1VP to the Tribune Supply pile.

Tribe (Victory - Gathering, $5)
$5 - Victory - Gathering
2VP
--
When you gain this, if you have any Tribunes in play, take the VP from the Supply pile.

Tribune is a VP card that is fairly closely related to Monument and Wild Hunt in that it "unlocks" 1 VP token per play. Unlike these cards, however, Tribune has a very weak on play effect. This means that even if you do manage to snatch in all 5 Tribunes, you are very likely at a disadvantage, by the fact that you have wasted 5 gains on weak stop cards. The situation is even more painful at a 4-1 split (you are now forced to pick up Tribes), and if both players pursue this pile, than players will be discouraged to unlock the first Tribe. As such, picking this up is pretty much guaranteed to be a bad choice. The only case I can see this being worthwhile is with Scrying Pool and maybe with City Quarter or Tactician, although even there it seems lackluster (especially in comparison to Patron).

Lictor (Action, $4)

+1 Card
+1 Action

You may return any number of VP tokens, for +1 Card each.
---
When you gain this, +2VP tokens.

This draws many parallels with Experiment in that it temporary lets you boost your draw before disappearing. The disadvantage is that Experiment is more spread, while the advantage is that the "first" time you draw this, you can immediately get the DoubleLab effect if you want. Another advantage is that if your turn is already shaping to be good, you can go for a blank +1 Card, +1 Action, without needing Way of the Pig.

The interaction with other +VP sources can be quite insane. It is alright with Monument, and probably even Wild Hunt. On Goons boards, it will be extremely powerful. The biggest kicker will be on Dominate boards, where your engine becomes extremely reliable when the first Lictor lets you draw 10 cards.

The +2VP gain is questionable as well for a $4 costing cantrip, especially when it works with pretty all gainers.

Dragonrock (Landmark)
At the end of each turn, +1 VP if you took any VP tokens or gained any Estates this turn.
-
At the end of the game, -1 VP for each Province you have.

The premise of making Provinces less worthwile and other VP sources more is interesting, but the execution seems rather sloppy. I don't think giving VP tokens for earning VP tokens is interesting; it's narrow and too automatic in many cases (especially with other Landmarks). The interaction with Estates feels very tacky as well.

Barbarian (Action - Attack - Gathering, $5)
+2 Cards
Add 1VP to the Barbarians Supply pile.  Each other player with 4 or more cards in hand discards a Treasure (or reveals they can't).  If no players discard any Treasures, take the VP from the pile.

I am not sure if this is intentional, but the attack almost always hits only once. This means that whenever you manage to play this a second time, you will likely get 2 VP, and each subsequent play is equivalent to +2 Cards, +1 VP. This is alright, but not very inspiring, especially for a $5 cost. As a drawing card, it is severely outdone by Wild Hunt.

A very important design philosophy of VP giving cards is that they have to work towards the end. Monument does that by giving +2$ (and lacks spammability by being a terminal stop card). Barbarians only draws a bit, thus not providing any economy. The attack slows down the opponent, thus giving the card an opposite effect. And the attack can be quite nasty at that when Gold is the main source of economy. The card is going to be especially problematic with Champion.

Carpenter (Action - Attack, $5)
Gain a card costing up to $4. Each other player may reveal a copy from it form their hand. Each player who doesn't discards down to 3 cards in their hand.

Carving (Treasure, $4)
$2, +1 Buy
--
When you gain this during your Action phase, put it into your hand.

An unconditionally non-terminal Workshop variant; we haven't seen that before. An extra effect is definitely necessary, although I am not quite sure if this is the right approach. The Carving looks pretty nice, although this this could turn the attack into a non-terminal Militia, which I am not sure if I want to see that. Carving also doesn't add a whole lot over Spices and Charm (the latter of which is in this set). I like the idea of a splitting pile with the cheaper card on bottom.

Salesman (Action, $3)
Trash a card from your hand. You may gain a card costing up to $1 more. You may trash this to gain a Gold.

Merchant Village (Action, @5)
+2 Cards
Reveal the top 2 cards of your deck and put the Action Cards into your hand. Put the rest back in any order.
--
You can't buy this unless you have a Gold in play.

Merchant Village is an inferior Lost City and it will be likely be outclassed by pretty much any Village, as Merchant Village makes your deck stall easily when the Greening phase is in full swing. The card is technically "cheaper" by virtue of being a debt card but mandating Gold and being second in a split pile more than make up for that. 

The first card, Salesman, looks pretty underwhelming: the on-play effect is essentially a worse Develop, with the ability to "eject" itself for a Gold. Having to get through that pile for a village sounds extremely painful. Compare this with Bustling Village, which is greatly diminished by being part of a split pile. However, that card at least has synergy with its upper counterpart (Settlers), and also has +3 Actions to boot.

End results

Runner up: Colossus by Aquila
Winner: Gallery by Gambit05

Congratulations to Gambit05 for winning this contest! Also many thanks for the rest of the submissions!
 
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: gambit05 on December 22, 2020, 02:26:24 am
Thank you, grrgrrgrr for judging and congratulations to Aquila for being the runner up!


Round 12 – Nocturne

This is a tricky expansion. It introduced a lot of new mechanics and ideas such as Night cards, Heirlooms, Spirits, Wishes, States, cards giving Boons or Hexes, and Zombies starting in the trash. Here is a link to the Nocturne expansion: http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Nocturne.

Since the idea of this contest is to simulate extensions of existing expansions, I assume that some of those concepts we would never see again. For example, Heirlooms replace the starting Coppers and since we have seven of them, I doubt that there will be ever an official Heirloom added. It is a cute idea and there could be an endless number of additional Heirlooms possible, but we won’t see any of them in my opinion. Boons and Hexes have been not very well received by the community, partially due to the extra layer of set-up in real life games, partially due to their randomness. However, there are some Fate cards out there that mitigate the randomness, e.g. Druid or Pixie. Keeping that in mind, I can very well imagine more cards that deal with Boons and/or Hexes. Then there is one outstanding concept that has a lot of unexplored design space: Night.

My criteria for evaluating your Nocturne based cards:

1. Don’t use mechanics that are specific for other expansion, and thus not used in Nocturne.
2. Your card has one or more typical Nocturne mechanics.
3. If you want another Heirloom, you should have a very good reason to do that, since I doubt that this concept will be extended.
4. Your card looks like it is fun to play with.
5. Balanced (as far as I’ll be able to figure that out).
6. Don’t use overly extensive text if there is no good reason.
7. Bonus points (in tie situations) for flavor.

I don’t know what you guys/gals are doing in the coming week, given that there are X-mas holidays, but also a nasty pandemic hitting most of our countries more than ever. I guess some of you may want to travel and/or spend time with families and thus don’t have much time. So, I will leave the submission deadline for this contest round open for now.

Edit: grrgrrgrr convinced me that there shouldn't be a problem to submit Heirlooms. So, feel free to do so. If you want to submit a Heirloom, don't worry that I am negatively biased. I will not.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: grrgrrgrr on December 22, 2020, 07:55:43 am
I don't agree with your rationale against Heirlooms. I personally think this contest is about simulating cards that could have been in this expansion (and this expansion in particular). It is about covering the hypothetical case an expansion getting a v2, with a few extra cards. All used mechanics are equally as likely to occur in a hypothetical "expansion of expansion". So I'd welcome Heirloom based submissions as well.

The only thing that makes an 8th Heirloom awkward is the offchance that there will be 8 Heirloomees used in a kingdom. But that can be solved by adding a rule that whenever that happens, one of the Heirlooms will not be used (which one is random).

Anyway, my submission:
(https://i.imgur.com/hgj5bCq.jpg)

Quote
+1 Action
Now and at start of next turn: +1 Action and receive one of the set aside boons.
-
Setup: If you haven't already, set aside the top 3 Boons face up.

This is a Duration Druid. It is also designed to make it act as a glorified Fishing Village. I originally didn't include the Village ability, but I was afraid that that would make the card too underwhelming on average for a $5 cost.

Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: gambit05 on December 22, 2020, 08:05:05 am
I don't agree with your rationale against Heirlooms. I personally think this contest is about simulating cards that could have been in this expansion (and this expansion in particular). It is about covering the hypothetical case an expansion getting a v2, with a few extra cards. All used mechanics are equally as likely to occur in a hypothetical "expansion of expansion". So I'd welcome Heirloom based submissions as well.

The only thing that makes an 8th Heirloom awkward is the offchance that there will be 8 Heirloomees used in a kingdom. But that can be solved by adding a rule that whenever that happens, one of the Heirlooms will not be used (which one is random).

My personal opinion about the idea of the Set Expansion Contest is to add cards to existing expansions and we would never see more Heirlooms if Nocturne would be indeed extended. However, I don't want to play the Grinch here. I will delete the respective part in my post. One could argue that a submission is not an addition, but a replacement of an existing card. So, I am fine with submitting Heirlooms.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: mandioca15 on December 22, 2020, 08:11:09 am
Hectare (Action-Victory, $4)

+2 Cards
+1 Action

Trash this.
------
2VP
------
In games using this, replace one of your starting Estates with a copy of this, and a starting Copper with a Silver.

Heirlooms, but not Heirlooms. This mixes up the opening a fair bit.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Xen3k on December 22, 2020, 05:34:36 pm
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50748802826_2dee82ebb4_b.jpg)

Quote
Enchanted Orchard - $4
Night - Victory - Fate
Discard your hand to take a Boon. Receive it now or at the start of your next turn.
----
2VP

So this is a design I have had been messing around with for a while. It is nothing too fancy. The discard is to prevent a player from hanging onto all the Boons for an entire round (a ridiculous but possible achievement), and to balance out the non-terminal reward of just having these in your deck. I could always bump up the cost to $6 and make it worth more, or just discard a set number of cards, but I find myself gravitating to, and enjoying the design of, $4 cost VP cards worth 2VP. I welcome suggestions on changes and criticisms alike.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: spineflu on December 23, 2020, 09:17:29 am
(https://trello-attachments.s3.amazonaws.com/5f734c336e86cd37f111e3d7/5fe34f5a5e75ae1b09bddac8/8722ebf4fb91ccc68ceaa464150eb902/image.png)
Quote
Baba Yaga • $4 • Action - Duration - Fate
Reveal the top two Boons; choose one to receive and put the other on the bottom of the Boons.

At the start of your next turn, gain a Will-O'-Wisp to your hand. If you cannot, gain a Wish and trash this.

(ignoring Exorcist,) Imp has Devil's Workshop & Tormentor; Ghost has Haunted Mirror; Will-O'-Wisp only has the boon that randomly gives you one. Ta-da, a Will-O'-Wisp gainer. And once you run out the Will-O'-Wisps, a Wish gainer that won't whammy you like Leprechaun does.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Timinou on December 23, 2020, 09:33:47 am
(https://trello-attachments.s3.amazonaws.com/5f734c336e86cd37f111e3d7/5fe34f5a5e75ae1b09bddac8/8722ebf4fb91ccc68ceaa464150eb902/image.png)
Quote
Baba Yaga • $4 • Action - Duration - Fate
Reveal the top two Boons; choose one to receive and put the other on the bottom of the Boons.

At the start of your next turn, gain a Will-O'-Wisp to your hand. If you cannot, gain a Wish and trash this.

(ignoring Exorcist,) Imp has Devil's Workshop & Tormentor; Ghost has Haunted Mirror; Will-O'-Wisp only has the boon that randomly gives you one. Ta-da, a Will-O'-Wisp gainer. And once you run out the Will-O'-Wisps, a Wish gainer that won't whammy you like Leprechaun does.

What was the rationale behind putting one of the Boons at the bottom of the pile rather than discarding it?
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: spineflu on December 23, 2020, 09:36:19 am
(https://trello-attachments.s3.amazonaws.com/5f734c336e86cd37f111e3d7/5fe34f5a5e75ae1b09bddac8/8722ebf4fb91ccc68ceaa464150eb902/image.png)
Quote
Baba Yaga • $4 • Action - Duration - Fate
Reveal the top two Boons; choose one to receive and put the other on the bottom of the Boons.

At the start of your next turn, gain a Will-O'-Wisp to your hand. If you cannot, gain a Wish and trash this.

(ignoring Exorcist,) Imp has Devil's Workshop & Tormentor; Ghost has Haunted Mirror; Will-O'-Wisp only has the boon that randomly gives you one. Ta-da, a Will-O'-Wisp gainer. And once you run out the Will-O'-Wisps, a Wish gainer that won't whammy you like Leprechaun does.

What was the rationale behind putting one of the Boons at the bottom of the pile rather than discarding it?

i couldn't remember whether "discard" was the preferred nomenclature and didn't want someone to add it to their deck vis a vis their own discard pile. this makes it unambiguous.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Timinou on December 23, 2020, 09:55:11 am
(https://trello-attachments.s3.amazonaws.com/5f734c336e86cd37f111e3d7/5fe34f5a5e75ae1b09bddac8/8722ebf4fb91ccc68ceaa464150eb902/image.png)
Quote
Baba Yaga • $4 • Action - Duration - Fate
Reveal the top two Boons; choose one to receive and put the other on the bottom of the Boons.

At the start of your next turn, gain a Will-O'-Wisp to your hand. If you cannot, gain a Wish and trash this.

(ignoring Exorcist,) Imp has Devil's Workshop & Tormentor; Ghost has Haunted Mirror; Will-O'-Wisp only has the boon that randomly gives you one. Ta-da, a Will-O'-Wisp gainer. And once you run out the Will-O'-Wisps, a Wish gainer that won't whammy you like Leprechaun does.

What was the rationale behind putting one of the Boons at the bottom of the pile rather than discarding it?

i couldn't remember whether "discard" was the preferred nomenclature and didn't want someone to add it to their deck vis a vis their own discard pile. this makes it unambiguous.

It could say “...put the other in the Boons discard pile” or something along those lines.  In any case, it doesn’t have much practical difference except in situations where there are 2-3 Boons in the draw pile and you play Baba Yaga twice.  You will draw the bottom-decked Boon again.  It could be helpful in some situations but in others could give the player one less choice.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: X-tra on December 23, 2020, 10:07:26 am
An old concept I posted on the Dominion Discord:

(https://i.postimg.cc/NjvDNsFB/Land-of-the-Damned-V3-EN.png)

Seems to fit well within Nocturne. Perhaps a little similar to Cemetery as (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/2/2a/Coin4.png/16px-Coin4.png) cost Victory card that does trashing on-gain. However, it plays pretty differently. It has an amazing (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/9/92/VP.png/16px-VP.png) value for its cost, but... beware of the Hexes! Trash that Copper or that Estate if you will, that will not stop the impending doom to hit your lands.  :D
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: spineflu on December 23, 2020, 10:34:10 am
(https://trello-attachments.s3.amazonaws.com/5f734c336e86cd37f111e3d7/5fe34f5a5e75ae1b09bddac8/8722ebf4fb91ccc68ceaa464150eb902/image.png)
Quote
Baba Yaga • $4 • Action - Duration - Fate
Reveal the top two Boons; choose one to receive and put the other on the bottom of the Boons.

At the start of your next turn, gain a Will-O'-Wisp to your hand. If you cannot, gain a Wish and trash this.

(ignoring Exorcist,) Imp has Devil's Workshop & Tormentor; Ghost has Haunted Mirror; Will-O'-Wisp only has the boon that randomly gives you one. Ta-da, a Will-O'-Wisp gainer. And once you run out the Will-O'-Wisps, a Wish gainer that won't whammy you like Leprechaun does.

What was the rationale behind putting one of the Boons at the bottom of the pile rather than discarding it?

i couldn't remember whether "discard" was the preferred nomenclature and didn't want someone to add it to their deck vis a vis their own discard pile. this makes it unambiguous.

It could say “...put the other in the Boons discard pile” or something along those lines.  In any case, it doesn’t have much practical difference except in situations where there are 2-3 Boons in the draw pile and you play Baba Yaga twice.  You will draw the bottom-decked Boon again.  It could be helpful in some situations but in others could give the player one less choice.

yeah i tried that wording, it was clear but it also shrank the font size, which i don't wanna do.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Gubump on December 23, 2020, 01:19:49 pm
(https://trello-attachments.s3.amazonaws.com/5f734c336e86cd37f111e3d7/5fe34f5a5e75ae1b09bddac8/8722ebf4fb91ccc68ceaa464150eb902/image.png)
Quote
Baba Yaga • $4 • Action - Duration - Fate
Reveal the top two Boons; choose one to receive and put the other on the bottom of the Boons.

At the start of your next turn, gain a Will-O'-Wisp to your hand. If you cannot, gain a Wish and trash this.

(ignoring Exorcist,) Imp has Devil's Workshop & Tormentor; Ghost has Haunted Mirror; Will-O'-Wisp only has the boon that randomly gives you one. Ta-da, a Will-O'-Wisp gainer. And once you run out the Will-O'-Wisps, a Wish gainer that won't whammy you like Leprechaun does.

What was the rationale behind putting one of the Boons at the bottom of the pile rather than discarding it?

i couldn't remember whether "discard" was the preferred nomenclature and didn't want someone to add it to their deck vis a vis their own discard pile. this makes it unambiguous.

It could say “...put the other in the Boons discard pile” or something along those lines.  In any case, it doesn’t have much practical difference except in situations where there are 2-3 Boons in the draw pile and you play Baba Yaga twice.  You will draw the bottom-decked Boon again.  It could be helpful in some situations but in others could give the player one less choice.

yeah i tried that wording, it was clear but it also shrank the font size, which i don't wanna do.

Pixie says "discard the top Boon," and nobody was confused about whether that meant they put it in their own discard pile or a Boon discard pile. It's plenty clear if you just say "discard the other."
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: segura on December 23, 2020, 01:27:05 pm
An old concept I posted on the Dominion Discord:

(https://i.postimg.cc/NjvDNsFB/Land-of-the-Damned-V3-EN.png)

Seems to fit well within Nocturne. Perhaps a little similar to Cemetery as (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/2/2a/Coin4.png/16px-Coin4.png) cost Victory card that does trashing on-gain. However, it plays pretty differently. It has an amazing (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/9/92/VP.png/16px-VP.png) value for its cost, but... beware of the Hexes! Trash that Copper or that Estate if you will, that will not stop the impending doom to hit your lands.  :D
Looks too good. Hexes can be nasty but when you mainly gain it, in the endgame, it is easy VP. I will play Groom for a DoubleLab, trash a Silver and 4VPs any day.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: X-tra on December 23, 2020, 05:16:15 pm
Looks too good. Hexes can be nasty but when you mainly gain it, in the endgame, it is easy VP. I will play Groom for a DoubleLab, trash a Silver and 4VPs any day.
The Groom + Land of the Damned combo has been discussed before on the Discord and I'm more than okay with it. It's up to the player to exploit these cool card interactions. Because such interactions exist does not invalidate a card's right to exist though. That's the cool part of Dominion in my opinion. Finding such cool interactions.

I disagree that it's easy (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/9/92/VP.png/16px-VP.png) too. Sure it has a higher value than a Duchy, but it's riskier also. It truly exploits the uncertain nature of Hexes. This makes Land of the Damned more of a gamble; and I bet sometimes it won't pay off. Or at least, it might foil some of your plans. If you're already behind, then by all means, go nuts champ! Acquire them Land of the Damned: they're all cutsy and cheap and pump out nice (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/9/92/VP.png/16px-VP.png) for you. This very nature of "come on, give it a try!" is what's expected here. But for that, it needs to be somewhat attractive too. :)
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Timinou on December 27, 2020, 04:53:03 am
My submission is an Attack card for Nocturne that doesn't give out Hexes (at least not directly):

(https://i.imgur.com/83XxfkK.png)(https://i.imgur.com/UCJkmya.png)

Edit:  Revised Sorcerer to give "+2 Cards. Discard a card" instead of +$3.

As part of setup, you would create a Ghouls pile with 10 Ghouls for two-player games and 10 additional Ghouls per player for higher player counts.

Unlike Ruins, which can only be removed from your deck by trashing/exiling them, Ghouls can be returned to their pile if you play them as an Action and receive a Hex. 

Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: LibraryAdventurer on December 27, 2020, 05:36:48 am
Quote
Stargazer
$3 - Night - Duration
Look through your discard pile. Reveal a card from your hand or discard pile and put it on top of your deck.
At the start of your next turn: You may reveal a Victory card from your hand to receive the next boon. You may discard a card to gain a Silver. You may trash this to gain a Duchy.

Edit: added "Look through your discard pile." (Personally, I think if a card says to get a card from your discard pile, then the "look through it" part should be implicit, but I know that's not in the rules.)
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: grrgrrgrr on December 27, 2020, 07:03:27 am
My submission is an Attack card for Nocturne that doesn't give out Hexes (at least not directly):

(https://i.imgur.com/OawYPHD.png)(https://i.imgur.com/UCJkmya.png)

As part of setup, you would create a Ghouls pile with 10 Ghouls for two-player games and 10 additional Ghouls per player for higher player counts.

Unlike Ruins, which can only be removed from your deck by trashing/exiling them, Ghouls can be returned to their pile if you play them as an Action and receive a Hex.

I like this concept, but I think that +$3 makes it a little too strong.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Gubump on December 27, 2020, 12:38:03 pm

Quote
Stargazer
$3 - Night - Duration
Reveal a card from your hand or discard pile and put it on top of your deck.
At the start of your next turn: You may reveal a Victory card from your hand to receive the next boon. You may discard a card to gain a Silver. You may trash this to gain a Duchy.

This needs to instruct you to look through your discard pile. As it's currently worded, you only get to look through your discard pile if you decide to topdeck a card from it, so if you look through your discard pile, you have to topdeck a card from it and can no longer do so with a card from your hand instead.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Timinou on December 27, 2020, 12:57:18 pm
My submission is an Attack card for Nocturne that doesn't give out Hexes (at least not directly):

(https://i.imgur.com/OawYPHD.png)(https://i.imgur.com/UCJkmya.png)

As part of setup, you would create a Ghouls pile with 10 Ghouls for two-player games and 10 additional Ghouls per player for higher player counts.

Unlike Ruins, which can only be removed from your deck by trashing/exiling them, Ghouls can be returned to their pile if you play them as an Action and receive a Hex.

I like this concept, but I think that +$3 makes it a little too strong.

Thanks for the feedback!  You're right - I'm not sure what I was thinking last night when I designed it.  I'll change it to draw 2 cards, discard 1.   
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: segura on December 27, 2020, 02:17:23 pm
Looks too strong. Topdecking junk is like handing out the -1 Card token and it is the only reason Sea Hag works in spite of doing nothing for the active player.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: silverspawn on December 27, 2020, 04:05:51 pm
(https://i.ibb.co/68BkKxm/Sorceress2.png)

I've used Moonstone in a WDC before but it didn't win, so I believe it doesn't break any rules? Tell me if it does.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: gambit05 on December 27, 2020, 04:10:56 pm
It doesn't break any rules. So, your submission is legit.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: D782802859 on December 28, 2020, 08:20:48 am
(https://i.imgur.com/0mnDjaV.png)
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Gubump on December 28, 2020, 12:58:14 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/0mnDjaV.png)

The topdecking should either be limited to non-Durations or say "an Action card you would discard from play this turn" to avoid being wonky with Duration cards.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: anordinaryman on December 28, 2020, 02:27:14 pm
(https://files.coding4.coffee/selif/fi9xgrtb.png)

Quote
Wizard | Action - Fate | $5
+1 Card
+1 Action
If this is your only Wizard in play, reveal the top 3 boons. Choose one to receive and discard the rest. Trash up to 3 cards you have in play, if you trashed any, gain a Night card.

I had the general cantrip fate idea since the previews came up. I realized that most of the boons were existing 5s if you slapped them on a cantrip. Cantrip + Fields Gift = Bazaar, Cantrip + Forests's Gift = Market, Cantrip + Flame's Gift is very similar to Junk Dealer. Etc. Each deck benefits from having at least one Wizard in it. Do you want more than one?

This ties into several themes of Nocturne:
- It's a fate card
- It does self-trash (like Pixie, Magic Lamp)
- It cares about the cards in play (kind of like Leprechaun, Conclave/Imp, Idol, Tormentor, Raider, Magic Lamp)
- It allows gaining of Night Cards

Of course, a cantrip fate can really slow down games, so this only triggers the boons if it's the first one in play. This means, usually once per turn. If you desperately want to trigger a second-one, you can self trash a Wizard, which then means less triggering in the future as the Wizards run out.

Having a way to upgrade action cards you played into night cards is interesting unexplored design space. Sometimes you just want to trash cards you have in play so you can help trigger a Magic Lamp or Leprechaun. Even if you don't really want another monastery and it's the only night, sometimes you want to trash a card (Priest, Tomb), or gain an extra card (Destrier).

Rule Clarification, a Wizard can self-trash into a Night card. If there are no Night cards, you gain nothing. The Night card gaining is compulsory if you trash a card in play.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: silverspawn on December 28, 2020, 04:07:53 pm
Why does this trash up to three cards as supposed to just one? The main case in which it makes a difference is if you have bad cards in play, in which case it's already extremely strong.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: anordinaryman on December 28, 2020, 04:46:49 pm
Why does this trash up to three cards as supposed to just one? The main case in which it makes a difference is if you have bad cards in play, in which case it's already extremely strong.

I wanted it to trash more than one card in play so it can trash itself and another Wizard. Otherwise you need to stop and think harder if you want to self-trash each Wizard when you play it. So that's why I wanted it to be "up to two." At that point I was like, well, "three" is a more magical number and Nocturne has magical numbers like "13" and "7" so I did three.

Just to clarify, if you trash three cards in play, you still only gain one Night card.

I'm not sure how often you have "bad" cards in-play. It's pretty rare. Even ruins, it's hard to play 3 ruins. You're more likely only going to have one bad card in play to trash, if that. At least, that's my reasoning.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: silverspawn on December 28, 2020, 04:57:38 pm
There's Storyteller, Villa, Black Market, and Cavalry, which allow you to have Treasure cards in play at the time you play Wizard. If you can trash Coppers, the effect is nuts. You could prevent that by saying 'Action Card' as supposed to 'card'. Not sure if it's needed.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: anordinaryman on December 28, 2020, 05:18:55 pm
There's Storyteller, Villa, Black Market, and Cavalry, which allow you to have Treasure cards in play at the time you play Wizard. If you can trash Coppers, the effect is nuts. You could prevent that by saying 'Action Card' as supposed to 'card'. Not sure if it's needed.

Good point. If any of those cards were in Nocturne, I would design around it since it's pretty strong. As of right now, I'm happy having those interactions appear in the <10% of games* both cards occur in. Especially because it seems a fun interaction to have.

*I calculated a rough upper bound probability that at least one of those cards is in the game given that Wizard is already selected to be in the game.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: gambit05 on December 29, 2020, 03:49:15 am

Deadline for submission in 24 hours (30th Dec., 4 am forum time)

Please, when you change your cards, please clearly indicate that in your original submission post. Best and simplest way is to add something like "Update" on top of the post.




Also, I have a couple of questions. Some, but not all, may need some changes in the card text:

Hectare
The card instructions don’t say when exactly Hectare is used in a game. Is it supposed to be similar to Shelters? 

Enchanted Orchard
Can the player receive a Boon when 0 cards have been discarded? See wording of Tactician.

Land of the Damned
Can the player choose in which order they receive the Hexes or are they received in the order they are revealed? If the latter, is the 2nd Hex revealed before the first is received?

Stargazer
I suppose you want to add “look through your discard pile” to the first instruction of the card in some way.

Sorceress/Moonstone
How does Moonstone versus Envious work, i.e. which can override the other?
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: silverspawn on December 29, 2020, 03:54:09 am
The one that triggers later overrides the other. That'll be Moonstone unless you played it in your Action phase.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: gambit05 on December 29, 2020, 04:03:11 am
The one that triggers later overrides the other. That'll be Moonstone unless you played it in your Action phase.

Okay, makes sense. Thanks! (No need to change anything with your card).
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Xen3k on December 29, 2020, 07:34:21 am

Enchanted Orchard
Can the player receive a Boon when 0 cards have been discarded? See wording of Tactician.

Yes, you still receive the Boon even if you discard 0 cards. I just wanted to prevent a player from dropping multiple Enchanted Orchards in a single turn. At least not without effort or arcane knowledge.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: D782802859 on December 29, 2020, 09:03:37 am
(https://i.imgur.com/TsbhRT1.png)

Just a small tweak to the Scheme part of the card so it doesn't have issues with durations.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: X-tra on December 29, 2020, 09:14:20 am
Land of the Damned
Can the player choose in which order they receive the Hexes or are they received in the order they are revealed? If the latter, is the 2nd Hex revealed before the first is received?
You reveal the first Hex and receive it. Then you reveal the second Hex and receive it. Since the Hex pile is "ordered", you receive them back-to-back in the order they are in said pile. This is something that would be clarified in some kind of FAQ rather than on the card itself; otherwise it'd become too wordy for very little gain.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: mandioca15 on December 29, 2020, 09:34:46 am

Deadline for submission in 24 hours (30th Dec., 4 am forum time)

Please, when you change your cards, please clearly indicate that in your original submission post. Best and simplest way is to add something like "Update" on top of the post.




Also, I have a couple of questions. Some, but not all, may need some changes in the card text:

Hectare
The card instructions don’t say when exactly Hectare is used in a game. Is it supposed to be similar to Shelters? 

Enchanted Orchard
Can the player receive a Boon when 0 cards have been discarded? See wording of Tactician.

Land of the Damned
Can the player choose in which order they receive the Hexes or are they received in the order they are revealed? If the latter, is the 2nd Hex revealed before the first is received?

Stargazer
I suppose you want to add “look through your discard pile” to the first instruction of the card in some way.

Sorceress/Moonstone
How does Moonstone versus Envious work, i.e. which can override the other?

Hectare is intended to be just another Kingdom card, like Gardens. When it is used, each player will have a starting deck of two Estates, one Hectare, six Coppers and one Silver.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: gambit05 on December 29, 2020, 10:08:00 am

Enchanted Orchard
Can the player receive a Boon when 0 cards have been discarded? See wording of Tactician.

Yes, you still receive the Boon even if you discard 0 cards. I just wanted to prevent a player from dropping multiple Enchanted Orchards in a single turn. At least not without effort or arcane knowledge.

Good. That is what the card text implies. I just wanted to be sure I understand your intention. (No need for changes).

Just a small tweak to the Scheme part of the card so it doesn't have issues with durations.

I haven't noticed (yet).


Land of the Damned
Can the player choose in which order they receive the Hexes or are they received in the order they are revealed? If the latter, is the 2nd Hex revealed before the first is received?
You reveal the first Hex and receive it. Then you reveal the second Hex and receive it. Since the Hex pile is "ordered", you receive them back-to-back in the order they are in said pile. This is something that would be clarified in some kind of FAQ rather than on the card itself; otherwise it'd become too wordy for very little gain.

Okay. It wasn't clear to me from the text alone and the difference can have quite an impact as far as I can see it.

More important than the exact card text is that I understand your intention. (A short clarification/FAQ would have been helpful).

Don't feel obliged to do any changes (it hasn't any consequences for the contest), but what about:
 
"…or less, receive 2 Hexes, consecutively."

The little extra word doesn't explain everything, but at least for me, it would prevent me to grab the 2 Hexes at once and would encourage me to consult the rule book.



Hectare is intended to be just another Kingdom card, like Gardens. When it is used, each player will have a starting deck of two Estates, one Hectare, six Coppers and one Silver.

Good that I have asked. I totally misinterpreted the Set up part. Probably, I was confused because of your remarks about Heirlooms. There is no need to change anything, as it would become obvious when players have a whole pile of Hectare available instead of just one card.

Many thanks to all of you for the clarifications!
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: gambit05 on December 30, 2020, 07:33:44 am

Assessment Round 12 - Cards for the Nocturne expansion


Tsuchigumo
   $5 Action – Duration – Fate   
Quote
+1 Action
Now and at start of next turn:
 +1 Action and receive one of
 the set aside Boons.
------------------------
Setup: If you haven't already,
 set aside the top 3 Boons face
 up.
   
Tsuchigumo by grrgrrgrr

A non-terminal Druid acting over two turns. It looks solid and gives a lot of flexibility due to the possibility to choose between different Boons each time Tsuchigumo is played. The guaranteed Village at the start of the turn is very helpful for engines and it is quite likely that the one or other set-aside Boon strengthen the start of the turns even more. My guess is that it is fun to play with and that Tsuchigumo is likely useful in most of the games. The concept on the other hand is not really new. Just an idea I had while I was thinking about this card and its mechanic, what about replacing the received Boon with a new one?





Hectare
$4 Action – Victory
Quote
+2 Cards
+1 Action
Trash this.
------------------------
2 VP
------------------------
    In games using this, replace one     
of your starting Estates with a
copy of this, and a starting
Copper with a Silver.

Hectare by mandioca15

This is a novel approach to change the opening turns. Hectare is a Kingdom card (as I have learnt just yesterday) that acts as a one-shot Lab when played and is worth 2VP if not played. Moreover, it is part of the starting deck together with a Silver, which replace an Estate and a Copper. This leads to a variety of opening turns, with a $5 almost guaranteed. I can‘t see many situations where I would like to save the 2VP by not playing Hectare in one of the opening turns; or very soon after if I already have $5 (due to the extra Silver) for buying an important card. Hectare accelerates the opening, but it seems that it isn’t interesting enough to not play Hectare for saving the 2 VP.
 
The idea is interesting, but the execution has a bit too many flaws. Hectare as a Kingdom card is certainly interesting and the concept has a great potential. However, also having a copy in the starting deck is not a good idea in the way it is. It seems well balanced as a Kingdom card, but as part of the starting deck, it doesn’t work very well. The incentive to keep it should be higher (as a starting card), but then there is the problem that this difficult to balance  for the copies that are gained later from the pile. So, there is a certain dilemma to find an appropriate balance between the “I want to play it” part and the  “I want to keep it” part as a Kingdom card vs a card already in the starting deck.
I would skip the Silver part and I would make the starting “Hectare” different to the regular Hectare Kingdom card, but associated, so basically an Action-Victory Heirloom. The Victory part of the “Heirloom”-Hectare could be something like “Worth 1VP per Hectare in your deck”. Difficult to find the right balance for this otherwise interesting concept.





Enchanted Orchard
$4 Night - Victory – Fate

Quote
Discard your hand to take a
Boon. Receive it now or at
the start of your next turn.
------------------------

2VP


Enchanted Orchard by Xen3k

A Victory card combining two characteristic mechanics of Nocturne, Boons and Night. Receiving the Boon is guaranteed since also discarding nothing counts. Enchanted Orchard allows improving the start of the next turn, which is a useful feature for a non-terminal Victory card. There is some self-limiting in place since discarding the remaining cards in hand prevents that multiple copies of Enchanted Orchard are played in the same turn.
When compared to Bard, the most Vanilla Fate card in the official expansion, Enchanted Orchard looks stronger as it is non-terminal, and it’s Boon receiving is more flexible. When compared to other $4 cost Victory cards, e.g. Island, Mill and Cemetery, Enchanted Orchard seems to play in the same league. Each one has its unique feature and Enchanted Orchard adds a new one to this category of alt-VP cards.





Baba Yaga 
$4 • Action - Duration – Fate

Quote
Reveal the top two Boons;
choose one to receive and put the
other on the bottom of the
Boons.

At the start of your next turn,
gain a Will-O'-Wisp to your
hand. If you cannot, gain a Wish
and trash this.

Baba Yaga by spineflu

Baba Yaga gives the choice to receive 1 out of 2 Boons, where the unused one goes to the bottom of the pile. This is a novelty as it combines the Druid aspect with the standard Boon receiving of other Fate cards. The back to the bottom of the unused Boon means that unwanted Boons may accumulate in the remaining pool over time, which could be interesting, design-wise, but sometimes also annoying for the player who gets the last 2 Boons before reshuffling the pile.
In the next turn, Baba Yaga gains a Will-O’-Wisp to the player’s hand, which is usually more than welcome. There is even a safety clause, which gives a precious Wish when the Wisp pile is empty. I am not sure I like this latter part as it is a quite radical change; maybe just gain a card costing up to $5? It would take out the extremely strong flexibility of Wish. So to summarize, Baba Yaga looks like a card that is fun to play with and offers new ways to use existing mechanics.





Land of the Damned
$4 Victory - Doom

Quote

4 VP

------------------------
       When you gain this, +2 Cards       
and trash a card from your
hand. If it costs $3 or less,
receive 2 Hexes.


Land of the Damned by X-tra

This is for sure a provocative card, giving 4 VP for a cost of only $4 and thus being accessible to a battery of Workshop-type cards. Of course, it can’t be all too good and gaining Land of the Damned has an important drawback akin to Cursed Village, but time 2. Often, the second Hex is somewhat neutralized by the effect of the first one, but since the second one is revealed only after the first one has been received, it is a sort of a gamble that if unlucky can hurt quite a lot. But hey, that is the common feature of Hexes. Receiving the 2 Hexes seems inevitable most of the time with the remarkable exception of Fortress or maybe when other $4 cost cards are spamable. Without a potent Exiler on board, Land of the Damned is mainly a late purchase, where the deck is usually more resistant to the Hexes. Overall, a very interesting card whose presence in a Kingdom can be barely be ignored since a lot of VP are at stake that can be quickly gathered.





Sorceror
$5 Action - Attack
 
Quote
+2 Cards
Discard a card. Each other player
gains a Ghouls onto their deck.
------------------------
     When you gain this, you may look     
through your discard pile, reveal
any number of Ghouls from it,
and trash them.
Ghouls
$0 Action - Doom
 
Quote

Receive the next Hex
       to return this to the Ghouls       
pile.

(This is not in the Supply.)


Sorceror/Ghouls by Timinou

Ghouls represents a new junk card that can be delivered by Sorceror. Ghouls don’t look very scary, since they can be relatively easy removed by a well-timed gaining of a Sorcerer. This on the other hand can lead to some self junking once the Ghouls pile is empty. Ghouls on the other hand can be removed by traditional trashers, or by playing itself for a Hex. Design wise, the Vanilla bonus of “+2 Cards/Discard 1 card” looks better than +$3, though compared to strong junkers like Witch, Sorceror seems to be on the weaker side, even or maybe rather because of the on-gain defense. I would probably remove “Discard a card”.
When attacked by a Sorceror player, Ghouls go on top of the deck of their opponents. This confronts the opponents immediately and escapes the cleaning function of the own Sorcerors. I like the concept and the novel aspects of this card duo. One problem that could spoil the fun too much is the presence of any regular trasher in the game; and there are a lot around. They would make it just too easy to eliminate the Ghouls, making them functionally indistinguishable from other junk cards. Maybe a clause such as “If this is trashed other than by a Sorceror, put it into your discard pile.” would help a lot to make Ghouls a novel annoying junk card. It would make the self-hexing more relevant and the concept more interesting. Just an idea.





Stargazer
$3 Night - Duration
Quote
     Look through your discard pile.     
Reveal a card from your hand
or discard pile and put it on
top of your deck.
At the start of your next turn:
You may reveal a Victory card
from your hand to receive the
next Boon. You may discard a
card to gain a Silver. You may
trash this to gain a Duchy.

Stargazer by LibraryAdventurer

This is a cheap Night card doing various things, mostly on the second turn, and potentially supported by its on play function. The player benefits from having a Victory card in hand, which can be even used twice for the second turn effects. In the turn Stargazer is played it prepares for the next turn by placing a suitable card onto the deck. There is some kind of dilemma that a player would rather like to have a key card, such as a Village or an Attack card available for their next turn, but to trigger the second turn effects of Stargazer, a Victory card would be the better choice. If in doubt, I would likely go for the Village/Attack or whatever card than receiving a random Boon. Since Stargazer is cheap and non-terminal and able to inspect the discard pile when played, it seems like the optimal solution is to have a lot of them. One Stargazer could take care of having a Victory card available to receive several Boons, the others look for the key cards.

Finally, Stargazer can be converted to a Duchy. I am not a big fan of such last minute scoring, especially when it can be done by self-trashing of a cheap non-terminal card. I would find it more interesting, if it has a below a dividing line instruction, e.g. “When this is trashed…”. However, taking all the other abilities and its low cost into accountant, I think the best is to get rid of this part at all. This would make the card a lot simpler.





Sorceress
     $3 Night - Attack – Doom     
Heirloom: Moonstone
Quote

Gain a Silver. Each other
player receives the next
Hex.

Moonstone
     $4 Treasure - Heirloom     

Quote

$1

Silver produces an extra $1
this turn.


Sorceress/Moonstone by silverspawn

Silver is clearly the key here; it’s about gaining and up-grading them. Sorceress is a non-terminal $3 cost Hexer that looks more attractive than Skulk, because of the presence of Moonstone. Because of its low cost and none-terminality, it can become really annoying and, a typical feature of the Hexes, quite swingy in its effects, especially early in the game. This is exaggerated by the fact that Moonstone with its cost of $4 is vulnerable to trashing attacks. Notably, with the Hex War (and Locusts with any cost) such an attack is looming early on. With bad luck, a player looses their Moonstone in an early turn, making a Sorceress strategy much less attractive. Since you have set the cost of Moonstone to $4, you had something in mind in doing so. My guess is to give it a trash-for benefit aspect allowing players to get rid of the Heirloom if they don’t want to go for a Silver-based strategy. If Moonstone is hit by Locusts it would, interestingly, become a Silver. Would it be helpful to make it untrashable like a Fortress, maybe combined (or not) with a$0 cost to avoid trash for benefits? Well, I am sure you considered all these obvious possibilities.





Rook
$4 Night - Fate
Quote
Choose 2: Draw an extra card
for your next hand; put an
Action you will discard from
play this turn on your deck;
     trash a card from your hand and     
gain one costing exactly $1
more; take a Boon and
receive it next turn.

Rook by D782802859

Rook is a Night card that picks 2 choices out of 4, three of them improving the next turn and one with a trashing/remodeling function. All those abilities have their own merit and choosing two of them makes Rook an attractive card for sure. The Scheme-like function alone is worth $3 and having a second option available combined with its flexibility and non-terminality lets me think that Rook is too strong for a $4 cost. Aside of that, playability is guaranteed and a lot of helpful things can be achieved. However, it looks like a bit too much of everything, and “everything” also means nothing that is somehow new or exciting.





Wizard
$5 Action - Fate
Quote
+1 Card
+1 Action

If this is your only Wizard
     in play, reveal the top 3 Boons.     
Choose one to receive and
discard the rest. Trash up to 3
cards you have in play, if you
trashed any, gain a Night card.

Wizard by anordinaryman

This is an expensive cantrip Fate card that has the Druid-like feature to pick one out of three Boons, except that they are cycling during the game. Because of this 1 out of 3 choice it is basically guaranteed to upgrade Wizard just with this feature to a strong $5 cost card (e.g. Lab, Market, Bazaar). But… there is a drawback, since the upgrade can only be done when it’s the only Wizard in play. But hey, Wizard has other features; it can trash itself and thus the player can upgrade the next Wizard again. However, with its high cost opportunity, I can’t see many cases where I would go for it. There are cards like Necromancer and Lurker that can benefit from trashed Action cards, or Fortress with its trashing immunity, and there are a few cards like Storyteller that would allow trashing Coppers played in the Action phase, but more often than not, Wizard has to act without them. Then finally we have a quite unique feature, i.e. gaining a Night card, which is expected to be absent in most games, or if present, may vary dramatically between something like Guardian and Vampire. Good thing about this latter feature is that all players are equally affected and that different games (no, weak, strong Night cards) will play remarkably different. So, if my evaluation is somewhat correct, in a lot of Kingdoms, Wizard has its use, but probably rather in a low copy number to just upgrade it to a valuable $5 cost effect with the aforementioned restrictions. In certain other Kingdoms including one or more cards I have mentioned above, Wizard can shine in different ways. So, all together it looks like the composition of a given Kingdom highly influences how strong Wizard is. In some case it looks like a top tier card, in other cases it looks like a - solid but difficult to play - card giving flexibility thanks to the choice of Boons. I struggled a bit with some of the randomness of the card strength in dependency of the available board, i.e. whether I like that aspect or not, but at the end came to the conclusion that the fun part and the novel aspects that make Wizard interesting overweighs its flaws. Maybe as a final remark, how about changing the trashing part to “one Action card”?





Some of your cards look solid, balanced and fun to play with and would be certainly a nice addition to the Nocturne expansion. I assume in 9 out of 10 cases, the master Dominion designer himself would prefer a card with the such features and only occasionally adds a crazier one. Makes sense since a set can’t solely have crazy cards. However, today I am all in for a more progressive/provocative route. I hope I don’t disappoint too many of you.


Notable mention of cards that look solid and balanced and for which I could imagine to be included in this or a similar form in a Nocturne extension:
Tsuchigumo by grrgrrgrr and Enchanted Orchard by Xen3k (a few more would fit, but it looks stupid when I nominate all cards)


Runner ups:
Wizard by anordinaryman
Land of the Damned by X-tra

Winner:
Sorceror/Ghouls by Timinou

Congratulations!

Last but not least: I wish you all a successful 2021 with a lot of exciting things to experience. Hopefully, with less Covid19 around and plenty of good times with friends and families. Maybe, the one or other of you will design a wonderful Dominion Fan card 2021 that will be celebrated in these Forums. Have a nice time!

Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Timinou on December 30, 2020, 06:23:24 pm
Thanks, gambit!  I must say I'm pleasantly surprised and flattered considering the quality of the other submissions!  I look forward to judging the next round, so without further ado....

Contest Round #13 - Renaissance

With Renaissance, we saw the evolution of States from Nocturne into Projects and Artifacts.  The expansion is also notable for introducing Villagers and reintroducing Coffers, and it also features some sub-themes from previous expansions, e.g. trashing (like Dark Ages) and on-gain effects (like Hinterlands). 

For this week's contest, your submissions should include any of the following mechanisms:

As with previous rounds, your submissions should not include any card-shaped things, tokens, or card types that are not found in Renaissance.

Submissions will be judged based on fun factor, balance, and originality (to the extent that they respect the restrictions above).

To allow for some extra time because of the New Year holidays, I will set the deadline for Saturday, January 9th at 10AM Eastern Time.

Please ensure that any revisions are made to your original post so that they are easier to track.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Xen3k on December 30, 2020, 09:14:56 pm
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50797953102_03d2ba51f9_b.jpg)

Quote
Theatre Venue
Victory
Worth 1VP plus an additional 1VP per set you have of Theatre Venue - 2 Villagers.
-
When you gain this, if you have no Villagers, +3 Villagers, otherwise +1 Villager.

A VP card that scales with additional Villagers. Some of the other Villager cards could make this busted, so I am thinking it may be too good as is. I am thinking of changing it to be a set bonus VPs for just having a minimum number of Villagers, something like +2 VP for having at last 4 Villagers or something. It is still a decent source of villagers regardless and can be remodeled if that is an option in the Kingdom if you are not going "big villager". Feedback would be appreciated.

Edit: Changed the scaling VP portion to be capped by how many Theatre Venues you own. This still allows them to scale beyond Colony in Value if you have enough of them and enough additional Villager support, but now with that being less feasible I hope it will encourage the use of those Villagers more often. Not sure if this completely solves the concerns or if this nerfs it too much. Thanks to Aquila for the feedback.
Quote
Old Version
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50781442321_667b635a1f_b.jpg)

Edit 2: To Clarify, each Theatre Venue is worth at a minimum 1VP. The Additional VP looks at the number of Theatre Venues you have and the the number of Villagers you have when scoring. If you have 4 Theatre Venues you can get up to 4 additional VPs each if you have at least 8 Villagers (5VP per Theatre Venue).
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: segura on December 31, 2020, 06:59:16 am
(https://i.imgur.com/BMlwnUv.png)

I noticted too late that there is already a Landmark with that name.
So nothing fancy, just a way to safe extra Actions. It is obviously great for consistency, but I don't think that it is overpowered; at $4 you'd often rather get another splitter.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: majiponi on December 31, 2020, 07:47:54 am
Letterpress
cost $6 - Project
When you gain a non-Victory card costing up to $4, gain a copy of it (that doesn't come with another).


A permanent Talisman.  Let's spell a magic of stella!  (Be careful when someone has a Witch.)
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: LibraryAdventurer on December 31, 2020, 08:34:52 am
Quote
Town Square
$5 - Action - Reaction
+2 Villagers.
Reveal the top 3 cards of your deck, put one in your hand and discard the rest. If all 3 revealed cards were Actions, take Crowded.
-
When you reveal this (using the word 'reveal'), gain a Silver.

Quote
Crowded
Artifact
You may not use more than one Villager per turn.
If you end your turn without playing any Actions, return this.
(Villagers used this turn before taking Crowded don't count towards this.)

I wanted to do a negative Artifact, so I came up with this strong village with drawback Artifact.
The Silver gaining helps keep the town from getting crowded. It could also be considered a drawback...
Do you think the drawbacks are too much for a $5-cost Village?
Should I make it +1 Action and +1 Villager?
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: silverspawn on December 31, 2020, 04:03:42 pm
Letterpress
cost $6 - Project
When you gain a non-Victory card costing up to $4, gain a copy of it (that doesn't come with another).


A permanent Talisman.  Let's spell a magic of stella!  (Be careful when someone has a Witch.)

I like it. But the Curse thing seems more like a bug than a feature. Maybe "Action Card" rather than non-victory?

Also probably better if it can't double Tunnels. 4 VP for 3$ is a bit silly.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: majiponi on December 31, 2020, 05:59:08 pm
Letterpress
cost $6 - Project
When you gain a non-Victory card costing up to $4, gain a copy of it (that doesn't come with another).


A permanent Talisman.  Let's spell a magic of stella!  (Be careful when someone has a Witch.)

I like it. But the Curse thing seems more like a bug than a feature. Maybe "Action Card" rather than non-victory?

Also probably better if it can't double Tunnels. 4 VP for 3$ is a bit silly.

Tunnel is a Victory card.  I didn't say Action cards so that I can gain many Silvers.
First I tried "$5, mandatory gain", too easy to govern games. Next, "$6, optional gain", too useful. So this is "$6, mandatory", a little weakened.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Aquila on January 01, 2021, 04:47:27 pm
(https://trello-attachments.s3.amazonaws.com/5e7f3d8b0b6db94c21ce2d22/5e8050f074c55b5a0c9e7231/acf5b57da408f443d01ef0b533c39817/Furnace_v2_mock-up.png)
This contest is ideal for testing whether the fan expansion I made specifically to go with Renaissance does its job. Just imagine the wheel symbol was the paintbrush.

If the trash bonuses look weird: it's less effective with Coppers, and it can trash itself for the Coffers. Does Renaissance need a strong trasher like this? Maybe not.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: grrgrrgrr on January 02, 2021, 06:26:45 am
(https://i.imgur.com/si3OTWK.jpg)

Quote
Obsolete Denomination (Project, $3)
During your turns, Coppers produce $0. When you play a Copper, trash it.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Holger on January 02, 2021, 09:45:06 am
Letterpress
cost $6 - Project
When you gain a non-Victory card costing up to $4, gain a copy of it (that doesn't come with another).


A permanent Talisman.  Let's spell a magic of stella!  (Be careful when someone has a Witch.)

I like it. But the Curse thing seems more like a bug than a feature. Maybe "Action Card" rather than non-victory?

Also probably better if it can't double Tunnels. 4 VP for 3$ is a bit silly.

Tunnel is a Victory card.  I didn't say Action cards so that I can gain many Silvers.
First I tried "$5, mandatory gain", too easy to govern games. Next, "$6, optional gain", too useful. So this is "$6, mandatory", a little weakened.

Isn't the difference between mandatory and optional gain negligible in the majority of games that don't have a junker? It's rare that you intentionally gain a cheap card and wouldn't want another copy of it for free - except for cheap trashers like Chapel, which you'll gain before your first $6 hand anyway.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Holger on January 02, 2021, 09:49:06 am
(https://i.imgur.com/si3OTWK.jpg)

Quote
Obsolete Denomination (Project, $3)
During your turns, Coppers produce $0. When you play a Copper, trash it.

Lord Bottington will buy this on turn 1...  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Gubump on January 02, 2021, 11:36:06 am
(https://i.imgur.com/sshYQoA.png)
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: grrgrrgrr on January 02, 2021, 11:41:16 am
Letterpress
cost $6 - Project
When you gain a non-Victory card costing up to $4, gain a copy of it (that doesn't come with another).


A permanent Talisman.  Let's spell a magic of stella!  (Be careful when someone has a Witch.)

I like it. But the Curse thing seems more like a bug than a feature. Maybe "Action Card" rather than non-victory?

Also probably better if it can't double Tunnels. 4 VP for 3$ is a bit silly.

I'd honestly add "costing $2 to $4". Other possiblities include: add a "during your turn" clause or explicitly exclude Curses from eligible cards (you cannot exclude Ruins though).
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: spineflu on January 02, 2021, 03:05:31 pm
(https://trello-attachments.s3.amazonaws.com/5f734c336e86cd37f111e3d7/5ff0cfa62952772251c372af/1a22b5b9198de93c0c14f1831c5976da/image.png)
Quote
Favor • $4 • Treasure
+1 Coffers
+1 Villager
You may return this to the Supply to return to your Action phase, then +1 Card.

This is similar to a card i entered in like, WDC#93, but corrected (to being cheaper) and more modular (if you want more actions like villa, you'll have to spend the villager you just got). I'm entering it because I think Renaissance, for as high-skill-level as it is, doesn't have a Villa/Cavalry style returner (or other "extra turns" mechanic, save for fleet), and I think that'd be a cool thing to have.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: LittleFish on January 03, 2021, 03:07:25 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/sshYQoA.png)
Wouldn't it make more sense to be "during your turns" not "in your turns"?
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Gubump on January 03, 2021, 03:13:32 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/sshYQoA.png)
Wouldn't it make more sense to be "during your turns" not "in your turns"?

I copied the wording from Labyrinth:
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?title=Special%3AFilePath&file=Labyrinth.jpg)
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Aquila on January 03, 2021, 04:47:25 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/si3OTWK.jpg)

Quote
Obsolete Denomination (Project, $3)
During your turns, Coppers produce $0. When you play a Copper, trash it.
I like this, it's clever. It's just a shame Renaissance already has Silos.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50781442321_667b635a1f_b.jpg)

Quote
Theatre Venue
Victory
Worth 1% plus an additional 1% for every 2 Villagers you have (rounded down).
-
When you gain this, if you have no Villagers, +3 Villagers, otherwise +1 Villager.

A VP card that scales with additional Villagers. Some of the other Villager cards could make this busted, so I am thinking it may be too good as is. I am thinking of changing it to be a set bonus VPs for just having a minimum number of Villagers, something like +2 VP for having at last 4 Villagers or something. It is still a decent source of villagers regardless and can be remodeled if that is an option in the Kingdom if you are not going "big villager". Feedback would be appreciated.
Villagers are unbounded, so the infinite VP,  endless game potential here might be quite likely? (Patron and Expedition don't push the game to its end.)
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Xen3k on January 03, 2021, 08:10:47 pm
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50781442321_667b635a1f_b.jpg)

Quote
Theatre Venue
Victory
Worth 1% plus an additional 1% for every 2 Villagers you have (rounded down).
-
When you gain this, if you have no Villagers, +3 Villagers, otherwise +1 Villager.

A VP card that scales with additional Villagers. Some of the other Villager cards could make this busted, so I am thinking it may be too good as is. I am thinking of changing it to be a set bonus VPs for just having a minimum number of Villagers, something like +2 VP for having at last 4 Villagers or something. It is still a decent source of villagers regardless and can be remodeled if that is an option in the Kingdom if you are not going "big villager". Feedback would be appreciated.
Villagers are unbounded, so the infinite VP,  endless game potential here might be quite likely? (Patron and Expedition don't push the game to its end.)

It is a good point that Villagers are indeed uncapped. I still want it pseudo scaling with the number of villagers you have, so I changed it to be capped based on how many Theatre Venues you have.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50797953102_03d2ba51f9_b.jpg)

Quote
Theatre Venue
Victory
Worth 1VP plus an additional 1VP per set you have of Theatre Venue - 2 Villagers.
-
When you gain this, if you have no Villagers, +3 Villagers, otherwise +1 Villager.

Updated the original post here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20521.msg860149#msg860149). Hopefully this change will address the potential infinite VP concern without nerfing the card too hard.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: BBobb on January 04, 2021, 01:39:54 am
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50781442321_667b635a1f_b.jpg)

Quote
Theatre Venue
Victory
Worth 1% plus an additional 1% for every 2 Villagers you have (rounded down).
-
When you gain this, if you have no Villagers, +3 Villagers, otherwise +1 Villager.

A VP card that scales with additional Villagers. Some of the other Villager cards could make this busted, so I am thinking it may be too good as is. I am thinking of changing it to be a set bonus VPs for just having a minimum number of Villagers, something like +2 VP for having at last 4 Villagers or something. It is still a decent source of villagers regardless and can be remodeled if that is an option in the Kingdom if you are not going "big villager". Feedback would be appreciated.
Villagers are unbounded, so the infinite VP,  endless game potential here might be quite likely? (Patron and Expedition don't push the game to its end.)

It is a good point that Villagers are indeed uncapped. I still want it pseudo scaling with the number of villagers you have, so I changed it to be capped based on how many Theatre Venues you have.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50797953102_03d2ba51f9_b.jpg)

Quote
Theatre Venue
Victory
Worth 1VP plus an additional 1VP per set you have of Theatre Venue - 2 Villagers.
-
When you gain this, if you have no Villagers, +3 Villagers, otherwise +1 Villager.

Updated the original post here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20521.msg860149#msg860149). Hopefully this change will address the potential infinite VP concern without nerfing the card too hard.

Problem is that now, all Theatre Venues are Estates after the first one (if I am understanding the card correctly).
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: grrgrrgrr on January 04, 2021, 09:25:00 am
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50781442321_667b635a1f_b.jpg)

Quote
Theatre Venue
Victory
Worth 1% plus an additional 1% for every 2 Villagers you have (rounded down).
-
When you gain this, if you have no Villagers, +3 Villagers, otherwise +1 Villager.

A VP card that scales with additional Villagers. Some of the other Villager cards could make this busted, so I am thinking it may be too good as is. I am thinking of changing it to be a set bonus VPs for just having a minimum number of Villagers, something like +2 VP for having at last 4 Villagers or something. It is still a decent source of villagers regardless and can be remodeled if that is an option in the Kingdom if you are not going "big villager". Feedback would be appreciated.
Villagers are unbounded, so the infinite VP,  endless game potential here might be quite likely? (Patron and Expedition don't push the game to its end.)

It is a good point that Villagers are indeed uncapped. I still want it pseudo scaling with the number of villagers you have, so I changed it to be capped based on how many Theatre Venues you have.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50797953102_03d2ba51f9_b.jpg)

Quote
Theatre Venue
Victory
Worth 1VP plus an additional 1VP per set you have of Theatre Venue - 2 Villagers.
-
When you gain this, if you have no Villagers, +3 Villagers, otherwise +1 Villager.

Updated the original post here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20521.msg860149#msg860149). Hopefully this change will address the potential infinite VP concern without nerfing the card too hard.

Problem is that now, all Theatre Venues are Estates after the first one (if I am understanding the card correctly).

Not quite. The VP value is MIN(n*(n+1), (1+[V/2])*n). It explores the concept of a VP card whose value grows quadratically w.r.t. the amount of TVs in your deck (n), but the amount of villagers in your pool (V) drastically keeps the count in check.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: silverspawn on January 04, 2021, 05:41:21 pm
(https://i.ibb.co/FXJmGTs/Mining-Shaft.png)
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: anordinaryman on January 06, 2021, 04:38:48 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/si3OTWK.jpg)

Quote
Obsolete Denomination (Project, $3)
During your turns, Coppers produce $0. When you play a Copper, trash it.
I like this, it's clever. It's just a shame Renaissance already has Silos.


To me this feels radically different than silos. With Silos, you can still use Coppers for economy, you just get to sift them at start of turn to get to your engine better (or other Coppers). And, like all sifting, you still run the risk of your engine dying to a build draw, even later on. But Obsolete Denomination instantly reduces the economy Coppers provide to $0 and you still have to draw them to trash them.

With Obsolete Denomination a hand of 5 coppers does nothing for this turn, and helps future turns with trashing. With Silos, the hand of 5 coppers is like a guide.

I think Obsolete Denomination is the best fan card I've ever seen. It's simple, but strategically complicated about when you buy it.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: spineflu on January 06, 2021, 04:43:25 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/si3OTWK.jpg)

Quote
Obsolete Denomination (Project, $3)
During your turns, Coppers produce $0. When you play a Copper, trash it.
I like this, it's clever. It's just a shame Renaissance already has Silos.


To me this feels radically different than silos. With Silos, you can still use Coppers for economy, you just get to sift them at start of turn to get to your engine better (or other Coppers). And, like all sifting, you still run the risk of your engine dying to a build draw, even later on. But Obsolete Denomination instantly reduces the economy Coppers provide to $0 and you still have to draw them to trash them.

With Obsolete Denomination a hand of 5 coppers does nothing for this turn, and helps future turns with trashing. With Silos, the hand of 5 coppers is like a guide.

I think Obsolete Denomination is the best fan card I've ever seen. It's simple, but strategically complicated about when you buy it.

i think it really does one unforgivable thing though, which is enable economic pins. Say you've got enough "other" economy (silvers, whatever), a handful of villages+draw to get it, and someone pulls off a KC-KC-swindler(s) to trash out all your other money. All the sudden you can't rebuild your deck at all. It's a midjudgement on your part doing that, but thats going to sour you on the game as a whole.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: segura on January 06, 2021, 05:32:36 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/si3OTWK.jpg)

Quote
Obsolete Denomination (Project, $3)
During your turns, Coppers produce $0. When you play a Copper, trash it.
I like this, it's clever. It's just a shame Renaissance already has Silos.

It's simple, but strategically complicated about when you buy it.
Doesn’t look complicated. You open Silver/Silver or Silver / terminal Silver. Then you buy a $4 or $5 and the Project.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: pubby on January 06, 2021, 05:43:50 pm
If I play Coppersmith with Obselete Denomination, what happens?
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: GendoIkari on January 06, 2021, 08:26:39 pm
If I play Coppersmith with Obselete Denomination, what happens?

Outpost + Expedition seems to provide a canon example... "Extra 2 cards" goes on top of the "only draw 3 cards", so it should work the same here; "an additional (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/f/f7/Coin1.png/16px-Coin1.png)" would go on top of "produces (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/5/5d/Coin0.png/16px-Coin0.png)".
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Holger on January 07, 2021, 11:45:57 am
(https://i.imgur.com/si3OTWK.jpg)

Quote
Obsolete Denomination (Project, $3)
During your turns, Coppers produce $0. When you play a Copper, trash it.
I like this, it's clever. It's just a shame Renaissance already has Silos.


To me this feels radically different than silos. With Silos, you can still use Coppers for economy, you just get to sift them at start of turn to get to your engine better (or other Coppers). And, like all sifting, you still run the risk of your engine dying to a build draw, even later on. But Obsolete Denomination instantly reduces the economy Coppers provide to $0 and you still have to draw them to trash them.

With Obsolete Denomination a hand of 5 coppers does nothing for this turn, and helps future turns with trashing. With Silos, the hand of 5 coppers is like a guide.

I think Obsolete Denomination is the best fan card I've ever seen. It's simple, but strategically complicated about when you buy it.

i think it really does one unforgivable thing though, which is enable economic pins. Say you've got enough "other" economy (silvers, whatever), a handful of villages+draw to get it, and someone pulls off a KC-KC-swindler(s) to trash out all your other money. All the sudden you can't rebuild your deck at all. It's a midjudgement on your part doing that, but thats going to sour you on the game as a whole.

I don't think that's a huge problem, as most official cards with Debt have a similar issue: If you have unpaid Debt (e.g. due to buying City Quarter, Donate or Blacksmith) and lose all your deck's economy, you can't buy anything for the rest of the game, not even Coppers.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Holger on January 07, 2021, 12:15:42 pm
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50781442321_667b635a1f_b.jpg)

Quote
Theatre Venue
Victory
Worth 1% plus an additional 1% for every 2 Villagers you have (rounded down).
-
When you gain this, if you have no Villagers, +3 Villagers, otherwise +1 Villager.

A VP card that scales with additional Villagers. Some of the other Villager cards could make this busted, so I am thinking it may be too good as is. I am thinking of changing it to be a set bonus VPs for just having a minimum number of Villagers, something like +2 VP for having at last 4 Villagers or something. It is still a decent source of villagers regardless and can be remodeled if that is an option in the Kingdom if you are not going "big villager". Feedback would be appreciated.
Villagers are unbounded, so the infinite VP,  endless game potential here might be quite likely? (Patron and Expedition don't push the game to its end.)

It is a good point that Villagers are indeed uncapped. I still want it pseudo scaling with the number of villagers you have, so I changed it to be capped based on how many Theatre Venues you have.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50797953102_03d2ba51f9_b.jpg)

Quote
Theatre Venue
Victory
Worth 1VP plus an additional 1VP per set you have of Theatre Venue - 2 Villagers.
-
When you gain this, if you have no Villagers, +3 Villagers, otherwise +1 Villager.

Updated the original post here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20521.msg860149#msg860149). Hopefully this change will address the potential infinite VP concern without nerfing the card too hard.


I don't think the potential danger of a golden deck with one of only two specific two-card combos* requires making Theatre Venue significantly more complicated (I consider your original version much simpler and more elegant than the update).
You'd already need two Theatre Venues (original version) in your deck (i.e. two otherwise dead cards) just to make Patron equivalent to Monument in terms of VP's gained per turn, and Monument is an official card that allows for a (weakish) golden deck without any help (except for a trasher). And just like Monument, Patron and Exploration do push the player toward buying more cards instead of building a golden deck, by giving $2 or 1 Coffers, respectively.
Finally, I don't see any "Villager golden deck" with TV even coming close to the Fortress-Bishop golden deck (which is guaranteed to give at least 12 VP per turn indefinitely): E.g. Exploration+your original TV gives at most 4 VP per turn, even if you managed to get all 8 TV's.


*Actually, Patron+TV is rather a 3-card combo, as you also need a strong trasher to create this golden deck.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Xen3k on January 07, 2021, 06:15:57 pm
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50781442321_667b635a1f_b.jpg)

Quote
Theatre Venue
Victory
Worth 1% plus an additional 1% for every 2 Villagers you have (rounded down).
-
When you gain this, if you have no Villagers, +3 Villagers, otherwise +1 Villager.

A VP card that scales with additional Villagers. Some of the other Villager cards could make this busted, so I am thinking it may be too good as is. I am thinking of changing it to be a set bonus VPs for just having a minimum number of Villagers, something like +2 VP for having at last 4 Villagers or something. It is still a decent source of villagers regardless and can be remodeled if that is an option in the Kingdom if you are not going "big villager". Feedback would be appreciated.
Villagers are unbounded, so the infinite VP,  endless game potential here might be quite likely? (Patron and Expedition don't push the game to its end.)

It is a good point that Villagers are indeed uncapped. I still want it pseudo scaling with the number of villagers you have, so I changed it to be capped based on how many Theatre Venues you have.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50797953102_03d2ba51f9_b.jpg)

Quote
Theatre Venue
Victory
Worth 1VP plus an additional 1VP per set you have of Theatre Venue - 2 Villagers.
-
When you gain this, if you have no Villagers, +3 Villagers, otherwise +1 Villager.

Updated the original post here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20521.msg860149#msg860149). Hopefully this change will address the potential infinite VP concern without nerfing the card too hard.


I don't think the potential danger of a golden deck with one of only two specific two-card combos* requires making Theatre Venue significantly more complicated (I consider your original version much simpler and more elegant than the update).
You'd already need two Theatre Venues (original version) in your deck (i.e. two otherwise dead cards) just to make Patron equivalent to Monument in terms of VP's gained per turn, and Monument is an official card that allows for a (weakish) golden deck without any help (except for a trasher). And just like Monument, Patron and Exploration do push the player toward buying more cards instead of building a golden deck, by giving $2 or 1 Coffers, respectively.
Finally, I don't see any "Villager golden deck" with TV even coming close to the Fortress-Bishop golden deck (which is guaranteed to give at least 12 VP per turn indefinitely): E.g. Exploration+your original TV gives at most 4 VP per turn, even if you managed to get all 8 TV's.


*Actually, Patron+TV is rather a 3-card combo, as you also need a strong trasher to create this golden deck.

Thanks for the feedback. I am concerned about the centralizing nature of the card if it has the infinite VP potential. I am also thinking of fan content that is more generous with Villagers than the official cards. I agree with you that the original is more straight forward, and I actually prefer it, but am concerned the infinite VP potential is too verboten as a general rule to allow. I would appreciate additional opinions on it as I am not fully familiar with peoples opinions on how detrimental it is to have a card give the potential for a "golden deck".
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: spineflu on January 07, 2021, 07:21:45 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/si3OTWK.jpg)

Quote
Obsolete Denomination (Project, $3)
During your turns, Coppers produce $0. When you play a Copper, trash it.
I like this, it's clever. It's just a shame Renaissance already has Silos.


To me this feels radically different than silos. With Silos, you can still use Coppers for economy, you just get to sift them at start of turn to get to your engine better (or other Coppers). And, like all sifting, you still run the risk of your engine dying to a build draw, even later on. But Obsolete Denomination instantly reduces the economy Coppers provide to $0 and you still have to draw them to trash them.

With Obsolete Denomination a hand of 5 coppers does nothing for this turn, and helps future turns with trashing. With Silos, the hand of 5 coppers is like a guide.

I think Obsolete Denomination is the best fan card I've ever seen. It's simple, but strategically complicated about when you buy it.

i think it really does one unforgivable thing though, which is enable economic pins. Say you've got enough "other" economy (silvers, whatever), a handful of villages+draw to get it, and someone pulls off a KC-KC-swindler(s) to trash out all your other money. All the sudden you can't rebuild your deck at all. It's a midjudgement on your part doing that, but thats going to sour you on the game as a whole.

I don't think that's a huge problem, as most official cards with Debt have a similar issue: If you have unpaid Debt (e.g. due to buying City Quarter, Donate or Blacksmith) and lose all your deck's economy, you can't buy anything for the rest of the game, not even Coppers.
correct BUT you can only pin yourself with debt; this enables another player to do it to you
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: segura on January 08, 2021, 12:56:47 am
If you buy this Project with KC and Swindler in the Kingdom and get pinned down, you deserve to lose.
Copper as a way to always get out of an economic mess is a nice design feature but it is from a practical perspective nearly totally irrelevant. I can count the non-Garden games in which I bought Copper on one hand.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Timinou on January 08, 2021, 01:42:22 pm
24 hour warning
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Holger on January 09, 2021, 10:24:16 am
(https://i.imgur.com/si3OTWK.jpg)

Quote
Obsolete Denomination (Project, $3)
During your turns, Coppers produce $0. When you play a Copper, trash it.
I like this, it's clever. It's just a shame Renaissance already has Silos.


To me this feels radically different than silos. With Silos, you can still use Coppers for economy, you just get to sift them at start of turn to get to your engine better (or other Coppers). And, like all sifting, you still run the risk of your engine dying to a build draw, even later on. But Obsolete Denomination instantly reduces the economy Coppers provide to $0 and you still have to draw them to trash them.

With Obsolete Denomination a hand of 5 coppers does nothing for this turn, and helps future turns with trashing. With Silos, the hand of 5 coppers is like a guide.

I think Obsolete Denomination is the best fan card I've ever seen. It's simple, but strategically complicated about when you buy it.

i think it really does one unforgivable thing though, which is enable economic pins. Say you've got enough "other" economy (silvers, whatever), a handful of villages+draw to get it, and someone pulls off a KC-KC-swindler(s) to trash out all your other money. All the sudden you can't rebuild your deck at all. It's a midjudgement on your part doing that, but thats going to sour you on the game as a whole.

I don't think that's a huge problem, as most official cards with Debt have a similar issue: If you have unpaid Debt (e.g. due to buying City Quarter, Donate or Blacksmith) and lose all your deck's economy, you can't buy anything for the rest of the game, not even Coppers.
correct BUT you can only pin yourself with debt; this enables another player to do it to you
In both cases, you can unwillingly get pinned by your opponent: 
Suppose the only $ sources in my deck are 2 Silver and the starting Coppers, and I use a $3 hand to buy either Donate or OD to get rid of my Coppers (usually a reasonable thing to do).
Either way, my opponent can pin me if he can Swindle both of my Silvers into (say) Villages on his next turn, leaving me unable to buy anything (due to the now permanent Debt from buying Donate) resp. anything useful (with OD) for the rest of the game.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Timinou on January 09, 2021, 10:11:14 pm
Renaissance Expansion Contest Results

Theatre Venue by Xen3k *Short-List*
Quote
Theatre Venue
$5 - Victory
Worth 1VP plus an additional 1VP per set you have of Theatre Venue - 2 Villagers.
-
When you gain this, if you have no Villagers, +3 Villagers, otherwise +1 Villager.

The first TV you buy gets you 2VP.  If there are no other sources of Villagers in the Kingdom, it may be optimal to use up the Villagers that you gain with the first TV before you buy the next one.  With the second and third TV that you buy, each TV gives you the same amount of VP as a Duchy.  Each successive pair of TVs that you buy with be worth one additional point each (gaining your 8th TV could make each of them worth as much as Provinces) as long as you are able to retain the optimal number of Villagers.  Even if there are no other sources of Villagers in the Kingdom, you could theoretically score up to 48 points in a 2-player game, or up to 96 points in a multiplayer game with TVs, which would still make this a viable Alt-VP strategy. 

With other sources of Villagers, you could theoretically score up to 72 points in a 2-player game, or up to 156 points in a multiplayer game.  This could easily become the dominant strategy. In a 2-player game, you would probably beat your opponent if you win the Theatre Venue split and have at least 10 Villagers, as that would give you at least an 18-point differential.   

The way the scoring works would potentially require players to think about how many Villagers they can afford to use during the course of the game (if you have 4 TVs in your deck and 6 Villagers, spending just one of those Villagers could cost you 7 points at the end of the game), but this is probably more likely to occur in games where Villagers are scarce.  Unlike other scaling alt-VP cards that require gaining additional cards to pull off effectively, Theatre Venue is fairly self-sufficient. 

Overall, I think this is a provocative twist on alt-VP, even if the scoring mechanism is a bit on the convoluted side.   



Aqueduct by segura

Quote
Aqueduct
$4 - Project
At the end of your turn, +1 Villager per unused Action you have.

Aqueduct is to Actions/Villagers what Pageant is to Coin/Coffers.  An Actions/Villagers counterpart to Pageant was actually one of the outtakes for Renaissance.

Unlike Pageant which is restricted to +1 Coffers per turn, Aqueduct allows you to gain as many Villagers as unused Actions you have.  At first glance, this seems like a good deal.  However, this is countered by the fact that if you are having lots of unused Actions and building up a large pool of Villagers, your deck probably doesn't need them.  This cost at $4 seems fine, and could be a worthwhile buy if there are no other ways to gain Villagers (or in weak Kingdoms without villages/splitters).  However, outside of these circumstances, I think this becomes much less interesting and it would probably be better to bypass Aqueduct for something else. 



Letterpress by majiponi

Quote
Letterpress
$6 - Project
When you gain a non-Victory card costing up to $4, gain a copy of it (that doesn't come with another).

Letterpress is a Project that is essentially a permanent Talisman, except that it triggers on gains, not just on buys.  I'm assuming that the rules would be similar to those for Duplicate in that it wouldn't allow you to gain copies of non-Supply cards (gaining 6 Wishes from Magic Lamp would be crazy).  Even so, Letterpress can be very powerful.  It vastly improves your gainers and trash-for-benefit cards.  It would be helpful for both engines and BM decks, and it could also allow you to empty out piles quickly if you are looking to close out a game.

The permanent, mandatory Talisman effect comes with downsides.  There may be cards that you wouldn't want too many copies of in your deck.  If you are behind on VP, you would also need to be careful about piles running low, and in a sense, it punishes you for gaining cards that you may want to improve your deck.  If you wanted to play an IGG and need the extra Copper to afford a card, you have no choice but to gain two Coppers.  Gaining Death Cart would give you another Death Cart and a total of 8 Ruins.  These circumstances are largely within the player's control (except if Messenger or Swindler are around), but then there's the obvious drawback with cursers and junkers.  The intention was probably to try and balance the card, but it makes Letterpress a liability in those situations.  I would probably try a variant that triggers only on buy; it is less powerful, but that would avoid the issue with cursers and junkers and wouldn't need that to try and balance it.



Town Square / Crowded by LibraryAdventurer *Short-List*

Quote
Town Square
$5 - Action - Reaction
+2 Villagers.
Reveal the top 3 cards of your deck, put one in your hand and discard the rest. If all 3 revealed cards were Actions, take Crowded.
-
When you reveal this (using the word 'reveal'), gain a Silver.

Quote
Crowded
Artifact
You may not use more than one Villager per turn.
If you end your turn without playing any Actions, return this.
(Villagers used this turn before taking Crowded don't count towards this.)

On it's own Town Square, is a fairly strong Village.  Even if it only gave you +2 Actions instead of Villagers, it would be quite strong $4 (perhaps $4.5) due to its sifting ability and Patron-like Reaction.  +2 Villagers is strictly better.

Crowded, the associated Artifact, is presumably intended to rein in Town Square's ability.  In this case, the trigger is similar to that for Horn (when a player already has Lantern) when playing Border Guard.  Crowded limits you to playing one Villager per turn after you gain it.  Because of this, Town Square is likely to be weaker in engines with few Treasure cards.
       
I like the concept of a negative Artifact.  In this case, players are unlikely to take the Artifact early in the game until they have a certain density of Action cards in their deck.  You could also be fortunate if one of your opponents takes the Artifact from you on one of your turns.  As such, I'm not sure how effectively Crowded would keep Town Square in check, if that is the goal.  Perhaps the trigger for Crowded could be having more than X number of Villagers after playing Town Square.



Furnace by Aquila *Short-List*

Quote
Furnace
$4 - Action
When you gain this or play it:
trash a card from your hand.  If it costs $4 or more, +2 Coffers.  If it isn't a Treasure, you may trash another card from your hand.

Furnace allows you to trash cards from your hand both when gain it and when you play it.  As such, opening Furnace/Silver could be quite strong.  Furnace can really shine if you draw it and have at least $4 to spend (ideally with at least one Silver), as that would let you buy another Furnace to trash the one in hand, potentially trash another card in your hand, and also get +2 Coffers for your trouble.  Rinse and repeat the next time you draw Furnace. 

Because of the mandatory on-gain trashing, a well-timed (or fortunate) Swindler, Messenger, or Jester that gives your opponent a Furnace could be quite detrimental for them.  If that is a bug rather than a feature, that could be fixed by revising Furnace to make the on-gain trashing optional. 

Overall, I like this card and think it is different enough from other trashers to make it interesting.



Obsolete Denomination by grrgrrgrr *Short-List*

Quote
Obsolete Denomination
$3 - Project
During your turns, Coppers produce $0. When you play a Copper, trash it.

Obsolete Denomination is simple but brilliant.  When you buy it, all the Coppers in your deck become worthless, but you can then trash them by playing them.  It seems like something you would want in most games, but I don't think that the optimal timing for when to buy it would be straightforward.  Obviously, if you buy it too soon and don't have enough economy in your deck, you will shoot yourself in the foot (I wouldn't recommend Obsolete Denomination for a first game of Dominion).  You also need to be careful about the presence of trashing attacks that could destroy your deck's economy and time your purchase accordingly (or forgo it entirely).  I think it's balanced enough so that if there are other strong copper trashers in the Kingdom, the choice of whether to go with those or Obsolete Denomination won't always be obvious.  You need to be cognizant of the presence of cursers/junkers and how much other junk you already have in your deck before you buy Obsolete Denomination.  Since you still need to draw the Coppers to trash them, you may need to be prepared for a few turns where you won't be able to do much if you buy it before you have enough economy in your deck or sufficient draw to get rid of them quickly.



Stronghold by Gubump

Quote
Stronghold
$7 - Project
When you gain a 2nd card in one of your turns, gain a Gold.

At $7, Stronghold would be one of the most expensive Projects (costing on par with Canal and less than Citadel).  Stronghold can be useful both for BM decks as well as engines that need to increase their payload (you wouldn't need to forgo an engine part to buy Gold instead), but at $7, the ability seems quite underwhelming to me.  Stronghold can be quite lucrative if you have enough gainers or +Buys, but would be dead in Kingdoms without any gainers or cards that give you +Buys.  I don't know what the probability of that happening would be but I think it would be often enough to be worth considering.



Favor by spineflu *Short-List*

Quote
Favor
$4 - Treasure
+1 Coffers
+1 Villager
You may return this to the Supply to return to your Action phase, then +1 Card.

For $4, Favor is a Kingdom Treasure that gives you +1 Coffers and +1 Villager.  You can also choose to return a Favor (pun intended) to return to your Action phase and draw a card.  In that sense, Favor is similar to Villa and Cavalry but with enough of a twist to make it unique.  I like those cards because of the tactical possibilities that they open up, so I find this concept intriguing.  I'm assuming that Favor doesn't give +1 Buy if you return it to the Supply, since players would return to their Buy phase after going back to their Action phase.  If this isn't the case, then I think Favor should also give +1 Buy.



Mining Shaft by silverspawn *Short-List*

Quote
Mining Shaft
$4 - Action
Trash a card from your hand.  +1 Coffer per $1 it costs.
-
When you trash this, each other player gains a Gold.

Mining Shaft is a Salvager variant that gives you Coffers instead of coin.  Coffers are strictly better than coin; however, unlike Salvager, Mining Shaft does not give you +1 Buy.  This can be quite important if there are no other sources of +Buys, but my sense is that Mining Shaft is still stronger than Salvager.  Interestingly, in the Secret History for Renaissance, Donald X mentions that an early version of Recruiter allowed you to trash a card for +Coffers.

The rationale for the on-trash effect below the line is not entirely clear to me.  If it's meant to nerf the card, I don't know how effectively it does so, since I'm not sure how often players will feel compelled to trash a Mining Shaft especially if there are other targets in their hand.





I'm always amazed by the quality of fan creations on this forum, and I definitely don't feel worthy enough to judge.  Nonetheless, I've tried to do my best to provide a fair critique, and I realize that I'm ultimately passing judgement based on initial impressions rather than actually playtesting any of these submissions.  So please take my comments for what they are worth.

Anywho...since everyone can't be a winner, here are the final results:

RUNNERS-UP: Furnace by Aquila, Favor by spineflu

WINNER: Obsolete Denomination by grrgrrgrr

Congratulations to grrgrrgrr!
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: grrgrrgrr on January 10, 2021, 08:20:05 am
Yay! Thanks for the great judging and also congratz to the runner-ups.

Unless we have skipped something, there is one contest left, namely the...

Menagerie expansion contest

Menagerie is the latest expansion of Dominion and is somewhat of a spiritual successor to Cornucopia and Hinterlands. It brought the following new mechanics:

It is not completely necessary to use these mechanics, however. Menagerie also brought some subthemes:

Any card that fits better in Menagerie than any other expansion is technically legal. What is absolutely illegal is one of the following:

About the future: I think we can do one more round, of creating a Promo card. After that, I think this series is done.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: spineflu on January 10, 2021, 09:08:00 am
Favor by spineflu *Short-List*

Quote
Favor
$4 - Treasure
+1 Coffers
+1 Villager
You may return this to the Supply to return to your Action phase, then +1 Card.

For $4, Favor is a Kingdom Treasure that gives you +1 Coffers and +1 Villager.  You can also choose to return a Favor (pun intended) to return to your Action phase and draw a card.  In that sense, Favor is similar to Villa and Cavalry but with enough of a twist to make it unique.  I like those cards because of the tactical possibilities that they open up, so I find this concept intriguing.  I'm assuming that Favor doesn't give +1 Buy if you return it to the Supply, since players would return to their Buy phase after going back to their Action phase.  If this isn't the case, then I think Favor should also give +1 Buy.
1: i totally missed the implicit return the favor pun. not intentional, but very good.
2: correct, re: buys - if you're still playing treasures you haven't done a buy yet, so you've at least got the default buy.

congrats grrgrrgrr

Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Xen3k on January 10, 2021, 09:58:28 am
Congrats to grrgrrgrr! I would recommend that after we finish up with all the sets that we design cards for a hypothetical combination set. So we choose two existing sets and design a card that would be a merger of those two themes and mechanics. I believe someone previously suggested this, so it is not my own, but I wanted to throw that out there to either continue this thread or spur the creation of a new thread. It has been fun.



(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50822767302_4577275805_b.jpg)

Quote
Horse Thieves - $4
Action - Attack
+$2
Each other player with 5 or more cards in hand discards a Treasure card (or reveals a hand with none). Either gain a copy of a discarded card or gain a Horse onto your deck.

I originally designed this as an improved Cutpurse a while back. I like that buying A Horse Thieves defends against the card by giving you horses, if you forgo gaining a treasure off the attack. Not sure if it is too good in its current state, but I can always adjust the price or the number of cards in hand needed for the attack to land. Feedback is appreciated.

Edit: Bumped up price to $5.

Edit 2: Changed price back to $4, made the attack only effect players with 5 or more cards in hand. To clarify, the "gain a discarded card" is mainly there for flavor and as a deterrent in trash heavy games. Getting a treasure you want is something that is appealing, even if it rarely happens.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Gubump on January 10, 2021, 01:14:39 pm
Congrats to grrgrrgrr! I would recommend that after we finish up with all the sets that we design cards for a hypothetical combination set. So we choose two existing sets and design a card that would be a merger of those two themes and mechanics. I believe someone previously suggested this, so it is not my own, but I wanted to throw that out there to either continue this thread or spur the creation of a new thread. It has been fun.



(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50821228077_f1a5b18e87_b.jpg)

Quote
Horse Thieves - $4
Action - Attack
+$2
Each other player with 4 or more cards in hand discards a Treasure card (or reveals a hand with none). Either gain a copy of a discarded card or gain a Horse onto your deck.

I originally designed this as an improved Cutpurse a while back. I like that buying A Horse Thieves defends against the card by giving you horses, if you forgo gaining a treasure off the attack. Not sure if it is too good in its current state, but I can always adjust the price or the number of cards in hand needed for the attack to land. Feedback is appreciated.

This is strictly better than the mentioned Cutpurse, which hasn't even been removed or anything.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Xen3k on January 10, 2021, 01:32:33 pm
Congrats to grrgrrgrr! I would recommend that after we finish up with all the sets that we design cards for a hypothetical combination set. So we choose two existing sets and design a card that would be a merger of those two themes and mechanics. I believe someone previously suggested this, so it is not my own, but I wanted to throw that out there to either continue this thread or spur the creation of a new thread. It has been fun.



(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50821228077_f1a5b18e87_b.jpg)

Quote
Horse Thieves - $4
Action - Attack
+$2
Each other player with 4 or more cards in hand discards a Treasure card (or reveals a hand with none). Either gain a copy of a discarded card or gain a Horse onto your deck.

I originally designed this as an improved Cutpurse a while back. I like that buying A Horse Thieves defends against the card by giving you horses, if you forgo gaining a treasure off the attack. Not sure if it is too good in its current state, but I can always adjust the price or the number of cards in hand needed for the attack to land. Feedback is appreciated.

This is strictly better than the mentioned Cutpurse, which hasn't even been removed or anything.
Technically Cutpurse can reduce a players handsize below 3. This was designed originally as a better, more appealing cutpurse. I have found Cutpurse an unappealing attack in general, but bumping up the price is probably warranted. Thanks for the feedback.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: segura on January 10, 2021, 02:28:44 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/eSUpVbk.jpg)

A weaker variation of the Duration TR that got nixed during the playtesting of Seaside. DXV thought that it is too weak and has tracking issues. Weak is totally fine for a Way and in times in which Mastermind-Mastermind or Ghost-Duration exist, the tracking effort seems trivial.

Quote
There was a now-and-later Throne Room variant. Play an Action, play it again next turn. It was both confusing and weak. What if you use it on a duration card? How long does it stay on the table? It could have said "non-duration," but that's pretty sad in a set with 8 duration cards. And did I mention it was weak? It left before development started.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Holger on January 10, 2021, 02:30:21 pm
Congrats to grrgrrgrr! I would recommend that after we finish up with all the sets that we design cards for a hypothetical combination set. So we choose two existing sets and design a card that would be a merger of those two themes and mechanics. I believe someone previously suggested this, so it is not my own, but I wanted to throw that out there to either continue this thread or spur the creation of a new thread. It has been fun.



(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50821228077_f1a5b18e87_b.jpg)

Quote
Horse Thieves - $4
Action - Attack
+$2
Each other player with 4 or more cards in hand discards a Treasure card (or reveals a hand with none). Either gain a copy of a discarded card or gain a Horse onto your deck.

I originally designed this as an improved Cutpurse a while back. I like that buying A Horse Thieves defends against the card by giving you horses, if you forgo gaining a treasure off the attack. Not sure if it is too good in its current state, but I can always adjust the price or the number of cards in hand needed for the attack to land. Feedback is appreciated.

This is strictly better than the mentioned Cutpurse, which hasn't even been removed or anything.
Technically Cutpurse can reduce a players handsize below 3. This was designed originally as a better, more appealing cutpurse. I have found Cutpurse an unappealing attack in general, but bumping up the price is probably warranted. Thanks for the feedback.

Yes, this would be far too strong at $4; except for the attack's limited stacking, playing this is at least as good as playing both a Caravan (as the topdecked Horse also gives you an extra card at the start of next turn) AND a Cutpurse. So it should cost at least $5, and quite possibly $6.

I expect the "gain a copy of a discarded card" option will rarely be used, as you usually don't want to gain a Copper, nor a Silver at a time when the game is so far advanced that the opponent has no Copper in hand to discard.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: segura on January 10, 2021, 02:33:17 pm
Congrats to grrgrrgrr! I would recommend that after we finish up with all the sets that we design cards for a hypothetical combination set. So we choose two existing sets and design a card that would be a merger of those two themes and mechanics. I believe someone previously suggested this, so it is not my own, but I wanted to throw that out there to either continue this thread or spur the creation of a new thread. It has been fun.



(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50821228077_f1a5b18e87_b.jpg)

Quote
Horse Thieves - $4
Action - Attack
+$2
Each other player with 4 or more cards in hand discards a Treasure card (or reveals a hand with none). Either gain a copy of a discarded card or gain a Horse onto your deck.

I originally designed this as an improved Cutpurse a while back. I like that buying A Horse Thieves defends against the card by giving you horses, if you forgo gaining a treasure off the attack. Not sure if it is too good in its current state, but I can always adjust the price or the number of cards in hand needed for the attack to land. Feedback is appreciated.

This is strictly better than the mentioned Cutpurse, which hasn't even been removed or anything.
Technically Cutpurse can reduce a players handsize below 3. This was designed originally as a better, more appealing cutpurse. I have found Cutpurse an unappealing attack in general, but bumping up the price is probably warranted. Thanks for the feedback.
Well, as you pointed out it isn't strictly better than Cutpurse and Cutpurse is indeed weak as it sucks after the opening. Your card thankfully fixes that but it is probably a bit too strong.
I think that the card would be dubious at $5 so I'd consider raising the limit to" 5 or more cards".
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: segura on January 10, 2021, 02:36:07 pm
Agreed; except for the attack's limited stacking, playing this is at least as good as playing both a Caravan (as the topdecked Horse also gives you an extra card at the start of next turn) AND a Cutpurse. So it should cost at least $5, and quite possibly $6.
It is not a Caravan, it is a terminal Silver. Like all cantrips you can spam Caravans, they are delayed Labs at best and half-Labs at worst. You cannot spam terminal Silvers. Gaining a Horse is very similar to +1 Card and +2 Coins +1 Card is vanilla-wise not particularly exciting.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Aquila on January 10, 2021, 03:10:43 pm
Quote
Apiary - Treasure, $5 cost.
$2
When you next gain a card this turn, you may Exile a non-Victory card from the Supply.
For the rest of the turn, cards you have a copy of in Exile cost $1 less.
The premise is cost reduction for things in Exile so they're easier to get off. That part might be a bit weak?

Edit: added Exile from Supply and removed up to $5 cost limit.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Gubump on January 10, 2021, 03:42:04 pm
Quote
Apiary - Treasure, $5 cost.
$2
When you next gain a card this turn, you may Exile a non-Victory card costing up to $5.
For the rest of the turn, cards you have a copy of in Exile cost $1 less.
The premise is cost reduction for things in Exile so they're easier to get off. That part might be a bit weak?

Where does the non-Victory card come from? I assume the Supply?
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: LibraryAdventurer on January 11, 2021, 01:12:27 pm
Quote
Gangster
$5 - Action - Attack
Gain two Horses, putting one on top of your deck.
Each other player with at least 5 cards in hand discards an Action or Treasure costing at least $2 (or reveals they can't). If they discarded a card costing at least $4, they gain a Horse.

Roughly based on a card I entered a few weeks ago. Hopefully, this version works better.

EDIT: changed "more than $3" to "at least $4" for consistent wording, and put one of the gained horses onto the deck.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: silverspawn on January 11, 2021, 01:21:48 pm
This seems pretty reasonable, but a tad too weak. Maybe +3 horses and rest as-is?

And I would make it 'at least 4$', not 'more than 3$'. It's weird to have 'at least' followed by 'more than' in the same card. (edit: unless you care about potion cost, I guess that would be reasonable.)
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: spineflu on January 11, 2021, 04:47:33 pm
(https://trello-attachments.s3.amazonaws.com/5f734c336e86cd37f111e3d7/5ff0cf8e1da4577aeb16db8f/770995a7d3ff6ce4487bc163eb074f6a/image.png)
Quote
Jockey • $2 • Action
Gain a Horse. You may play a Horse from your hand.
-
While this is in play, when you play a Horse, +1 Action.

Changed the order of the top part for better Sleigh synergy - if you can gain it to your hand, you get to play it right away.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: gambit05 on January 12, 2021, 11:03:49 am

My Submission:

(https://i.ibb.co/Rp9Fkhc/Unicorn.png)
Unicorn
$8* Action
Quote

+4 Cards
Gain a Horse.
--------------------------
When you buy this, you may
Exile an Action card other
     than a Unicorn from your hand     
to pay $1 less per $1 it costs.

Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: silverspawn on January 12, 2021, 12:24:37 pm
Isn't this busted? The top half is significantly better than that of Hunting Grounds, and the card is effectively cheaper. Exiling an Estate to get this is super good.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Xen3k on January 12, 2021, 12:27:21 pm
Isn't this busted? The top half is significantly better than that of Hunting Grounds, and the card is effectively cheaper. Exiling an Estate to get this is super good.

You have to Exile an Action card to make it cheaper, but it does look really good otherwise.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: mandioca15 on January 12, 2021, 02:31:30 pm
Hawk (Action-Duration, $4)

Now or at the start of your next turn: gain a card to your hand costing up to $4.

I like the "now or at the start of your next turn" subtheme from Menagerie, so here's a card that uses that idea. Obviously it's a bit stronger if you take the bonus next turn, but it does mean you get to play it less often.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Timinou on January 12, 2021, 02:40:38 pm
Hawk (Action-Duration, $4)

Now or at the start of your next turn: gain a card to your hand costing up to $4.

I like the "now or at the start of your next turn" subtheme from Menagerie, so here's a card that uses that idea. Obviously it's a bit stronger if you take the bonus next turn, but it does mean you get to play it less often.

Looks interesting.  Should it cost $5 like Sculptor?  You sometimes get a Villager with Sculptor, but I think the flexibility to gain the card to your hand during your next turn is at least as good. 
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: mandioca15 on January 12, 2021, 02:43:31 pm
Hawk (Action-Duration, $4)

Now or at the start of your next turn: gain a card to your hand costing up to $4.

I like the "now or at the start of your next turn" subtheme from Menagerie, so here's a card that uses that idea. Obviously it's a bit stronger if you take the bonus next turn, but it does mean you get to play it less often.

Looks interesting.  Should it cost $5 like Sculptor?  You sometimes get a Villager with Sculptor, but I think the flexibility to gain the card to your hand during your next turn is at least as good.

Yes, wasn't sure about the price. Would $5 make more sense? I was dissuaded from that originally because of the "play it less often" thing.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: silverspawn on January 12, 2021, 03:43:40 pm
Isn't this busted? The top half is significantly better than that of Hunting Grounds, and the card is effectively cheaper. Exiling an Estate to get this is super good.

You have to Exile an Action card to make it cheaper, but it does look really good otherwise.

Oh, it's an Action card. That's more reasonable, though still quite strong.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Timinou on January 12, 2021, 05:04:41 pm
Hawk (Action-Duration, $4)

Now or at the start of your next turn: gain a card to your hand costing up to $4.

I like the "now or at the start of your next turn" subtheme from Menagerie, so here's a card that uses that idea. Obviously it's a bit stronger if you take the bonus next turn, but it does mean you get to play it less often.

Looks interesting.  Should it cost $5 like Sculptor?  You sometimes get a Villager with Sculptor, but I think the flexibility to gain the card to your hand during your next turn is at least as good.

Yes, wasn't sure about the price. Would $5 make more sense? I was dissuaded from that originally because of the "play it less often" thing.

I think so.  Gaining to your hand is much better than just gaining; if you compare it to Cobbler and Sculptor, I think $5 would be better.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: mandioca15 on January 12, 2021, 05:22:14 pm
Hawk (Action-Duration, $4)

Now or at the start of your next turn: gain a card to your hand costing up to $4.

I like the "now or at the start of your next turn" subtheme from Menagerie, so here's a card that uses that idea. Obviously it's a bit stronger if you take the bonus next turn, but it does mean you get to play it less often.

Looks interesting.  Should it cost $5 like Sculptor?  You sometimes get a Villager with Sculptor, but I think the flexibility to gain the card to your hand during your next turn is at least as good.

Yes, wasn't sure about the price. Would $5 make more sense? I was dissuaded from that originally because of the "play it less often" thing.

I think so.  Gaining to your hand is much better than just gaining; if you compare it to Cobbler and Sculptor, I think $5 would be better.

Very well, then, will change it to the following:

Hawk (Action-Duration, $5)

Now or at the start of your next turn: gain a card to your hand costing up to $4.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: NoMoreFun on January 13, 2021, 10:16:26 pm
Horse Catcher
Action - $3
Choose one: +2 Cards; or gain 2 Horses; or gain a Horse to your hand
-
While this is in play, when an Action you played leaves play, you may Exile it
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: LittleFish on January 14, 2021, 12:23:30 am
Quote
Stablehand
Action-(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/a/a9/Coin3star.png/16px-Coin3star.png)
+1 Action
You may discard a treasure from your hand to gain two horses.
---
When you buy this, instead of paying the cost, you may exile a horse from your hand

Is the top part too weak? Input would be appreciated.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: silverspawn on January 15, 2021, 08:37:48 am
(https://i.ibb.co/47NcXsw/Horse-Trade.png)
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: BBobb on January 15, 2021, 11:03:03 am
(https://i.ibb.co/47NcXsw/Horse-Trade.png)
I think that this is probably too weak. Engines (most of them anyway) don't want the Silver, and Terminal Draw Big Money probably doesn't need/want the Horses. Even in Terminal Draw Big Money, you often have 2 Silvers in play, in which case this is a more expensive Expedition/Experiment. If you make it cheaper, it probably is too similar to these 2 others card-shaped things, so I would buff it somehow.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: faust on January 15, 2021, 11:11:23 am
(https://i.ibb.co/47NcXsw/Horse-Trade.png)
I think that this is probably too weak. Engines (most of them anyway) don't want the Silver, and Terminal Draw Big Money probably doesn't need/want the Horses. Even in Terminal Draw Big Money, you often have 2 Silvers in play, in which case this is a more expensive Expedition/Experiment. If you make it cheaper, it probably is too similar to these 2 others card-shaped things, so I would buff it somehow.
This analysis is off. Yes, in a normal game you won't have more than 2 Silvers in play all that often. But we're not considering a normal game, we're considering a game that has Horse Trade in it. The opportunity cost of adding a Silver becomes significantly lower as each Silver is more or less a cantrip if you buy Horse Trade. You can build your deck with Horse Trade in mind, and I think it can be pretty strong then.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: BBobb on January 15, 2021, 12:13:40 pm
(https://i.ibb.co/47NcXsw/Horse-Trade.png)
I think that this is probably too weak. Engines (most of them anyway) don't want the Silver, and Terminal Draw Big Money probably doesn't need/want the Horses. Even in Terminal Draw Big Money, you often have 2 Silvers in play, in which case this is a more expensive Expedition/Experiment. If you make it cheaper, it probably is too similar to these 2 others card-shaped things, so I would buff it somehow.
This analysis is off. Yes, in a normal game you won't have more than 2 Silvers in play all that often. But we're not considering a normal game, we're considering a game that has Horse Trade in it. The opportunity cost of adding a Silver becomes significantly lower as each Silver is more or less a cantrip if you buy Horse Trade. You can build your deck with Horse Trade in mind, and I think it can be pretty strong then.
Yes, but if you are trying to build an engine around Horse Trade and Silvers, it just isn't going to be reliable. And if you aren't building an engine around it, I really doubt that you are going to take one of these for 3 Horses over a Gold or a Province in Big Money
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Timinou on January 15, 2021, 02:19:41 pm
Would it be overpowered if it let you topdeck the Horses?
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: segura on January 15, 2021, 02:30:58 pm
(https://i.ibb.co/47NcXsw/Horse-Trade.png)
I think that this is probably too weak. Engines (most of them anyway) don't want the Silver, and Terminal Draw Big Money probably doesn't need/want the Horses. Even in Terminal Draw Big Money, you often have 2 Silvers in play, in which case this is a more expensive Expedition/Experiment. If you make it cheaper, it probably is too similar to these 2 others card-shaped things, so I would buff it somehow.
This analysis is off. Yes, in a normal game you won't have more than 2 Silvers in play all that often. But we're not considering a normal game, we're considering a game that has Horse Trade in it. The opportunity cost of adding a Silver becomes significantly lower as each Silver is more or less a cantrip if you buy Horse Trade. You can build your deck with Horse Trade in mind, and I think it can be pretty strong then.
Yes, but if you are trying to build an engine around Horse Trade and Silvers, it just isn't going to be reliable. And if you aren't building an engine around it, I really doubt that you are going to take one of these for 3 Horses over a Gold or a Province in Big Money
The Event does neither cost $8 or $6 nor are Province and Gold the benchmark. Experiment and Expedition on the other hand are. That makes the analysis fairly simple, the Event is good if you have 3 or more Silvers in play. Doesn't seem horribly underpowered.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: LittleFish on January 15, 2021, 02:56:09 pm
(https://i.ibb.co/47NcXsw/Horse-Trade.png)
I think that this is probably too weak. Engines (most of them anyway) don't want the Silver, and Terminal Draw Big Money probably doesn't need/want the Horses. Even in Terminal Draw Big Money, you often have 2 Silvers in play, in which case this is a more expensive Expedition/Experiment. If you make it cheaper, it probably is too similar to these 2 others card-shaped things, so I would buff it somehow.
This analysis is off. Yes, in a normal game you won't have more than 2 Silvers in play all that often. But we're not considering a normal game, we're considering a game that has Horse Trade in it. The opportunity cost of adding a Silver becomes significantly lower as each Silver is more or less a cantrip if you buy Horse Trade. You can build your deck with Horse Trade in mind, and I think it can be pretty strong then.
Yes, but if you are trying to build an engine around Horse Trade and Silvers, it just isn't going to be reliable. And if you aren't building an engine around it, I really doubt that you are going to take one of these for 3 Horses over a Gold or a Province in Big Money
The Event does neither cost $8 or $6 nor are Province and Gold the benchmark. Experiment and Expedition on the other hand are. That makes the analysis fairly simple, the Event is good if you have 3 or more Silvers in play. Doesn't seem horribly underpowered.
but if you have 3 silvers in play, you'd have the option to buy a gold, meaning that you could compare it to a gold
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: segura on January 15, 2021, 04:44:01 pm
It ain’t an engine without extra Buys.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: GendoIkari on January 15, 2021, 04:55:53 pm
I say give it +buy. The nature of the Event makes it so that you basically always want to have more than (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/2/2a/Coin4.png/16px-Coin4.png) to spend when you buy it; so it feels like +buy is a very natural addition. It would help strengthen it slightly and I doubt it would make it overpowered.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: silverspawn on January 15, 2021, 05:10:54 pm
I'm pretty confidedent the Event is on the strong side, so I'm definitely not going to buff it.

Suppose you have six silvers in your deck and two markets. If you get to play those, you can get 12 horses and another market. That allows you to draw your deck easily, and you can go from there. My worry is that the card will be the dominant strategy too often, not that it's too weak.

But I think it would be quite fun if that's the best strategy, as long as it doesn't happen all the time. You do need cantrip +buys and a way to get started.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Timinou on January 15, 2021, 06:32:52 pm
I'm pretty confidedent the Event is on the strong side, so I'm definitely not going to buff it.

Suppose you have six silvers in your deck and two markets. If you get to play those, you can get 12 horses and another market. That allows you to draw your deck easily, and you can go from there. My worry is that the card will be the dominant strategy too often, not that it's too weak.

But I think it would be quite fun if that's the best strategy, as long as it doesn't happen all the time. You do need cantrip +buys and a way to get started.

Yeah, if you buy it when you have at least two Silvers in play and only have one Buy, then this is equivalent to buying Experiment at $3.  The more Silvers you have in play, the stronger Horse Trade gets (for Experiment you would also need to have extra buys for it, whereas you can get as many Horses as you have Silvers in play with just one Buy).  So overall, I think the cost seems fair.  It's a bit hard for me to gauge, because Stampede looks like good value at $5 (but also comes with a limitation which restricts you from playing it once your engine starts ticking).  On the other hand, Horse Trade is most effective later in the game when you are already able to draw a lot of Silvers.

I think whether or not this would be the dominant strategy will be situational.  If there aren't other ways to gain Silver efficiently, would you be better off buying something other than Silver?  In the scenario that you described: sure, 12 Horses sounds great if you have $14 to spend and 3 Buys.  But you would probably need to do quite a bit of work in order to find yourself in that situation, so by that point in the game, 12 Horses might be overkill and perhaps there is something else you could buy that would be better for your deck.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: grrgrrgrr on January 16, 2021, 04:39:14 am
24 hours left!
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Aquila on January 16, 2021, 07:34:53 am
Quote
Apiary - Treasure, $5 cost.
$2
When you next gain a card this turn, you may Exile a non-Victory card costing up to $5.
For the rest of the turn, cards you have a copy of in Exile cost $1 less.
The premise is cost reduction for things in Exile so they're easier to get off. That part might be a bit weak?

Where does the non-Victory card come from? I assume the Supply?
Thanks for spotting this, fixed:

Quote
Apiary - Treasure, $5 cost.
$2
When you next gain a card this turn, you may Exile a non-Victory card from the Supply.
For the rest of the turn, cards you have a copy of in Exile cost $1 less.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Timinou on January 16, 2021, 11:56:05 am
(https://i.imgur.com/5TqibZs.png)
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: X-tra on January 16, 2021, 02:40:30 pm
Hope I'm not too late:

(https://i.postimg.cc/y8drSCLL/Way-of-the-Rabbit-v1-1.png)

Probably not a powerful Way, but they're not meant to be anyway.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: segura on January 17, 2021, 04:39:47 am
I like that this ties in with the variable cost theme of Menagerie. Buy Animal Fair via blowing up a $2, then blow up Animal Fair for two Captains.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: silverspawn on January 17, 2021, 05:32:05 am
I remodel a gold into a province. Then, I play a Wayfarer with Way of the Rabbit. I gain an $5-cost. Cain I gain another 5$ cost?
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: segura on January 17, 2021, 06:21:40 am
(https://i.imgur.com/5TqibZs.png)
It is a cool design but I worry that it is a bit too nasty with handsize Attacks. Council Room + Militia takes some effort, now all your Actions are Smithies. You basically only need Miltias and Villages.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Timinou on January 17, 2021, 07:11:31 am
(https://i.imgur.com/5TqibZs.png)
It is a cool design but I worry that it is a bit too nasty with handsize Attacks. Council Room + Militia takes some effort, now all your Actions are Smithies. You basically only need Miltias and Villages.

Yes, it does make Militia-type handsize attacks pretty much unskippable if they are in the Kingdom, but that shouldn't be an issue for most games.  I don't think I'm going to try and fix this Way to account for those situations because the fixes create new problems.  Menagerie itself doesn't have any handsize attacks. 
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: spineflu on January 17, 2021, 11:34:08 am
I remodel a gold into a province. Then, I play a Wayfarer with Way of the Rabbit. I gain an $5-cost. Cain I gain another 5$ cost?

yes if resolution uses a stack
no if resolution is all globals (or even all pointers).
due to the nesting structure of turns on dominion dot games, we know that they use a stack; however dxv said "no don't use the mtg stack system" sometime ago in the interview thread, so v0v.

You can make this more explicit which way to go with Way of the Rabbit:
yes: "Trash this. Gain two cards that cost less than the price of the card when you trashed it." kinda clunky/weird for first time players but succinct and with wayfarer in the same set, easy enough to grok why it'd be the case.

no: "Trash this. Do this twice: Gain a card costing less than the card you trashed." taking after remodel. again, a little clunky, but makes explicit that you check the price of wayfarer each time.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: silverspawn on January 17, 2021, 12:30:25 pm
I don't think that's worth it [i.e., renaming it], even the second one.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Gubump on January 17, 2021, 03:02:23 pm
Stonemason + Wayfarer has the same issue.
Stonemasoning Wayfarer gets you a card costing less than Wayfarer, then a card costing less than whatever the first card you gained was. So Way of the Rabbit on a Wayfarer would, assuming no cards have been gained earlier in the turn, get you a (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/7/7d/Coin5.png/16px-Coin5.png) and a (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/2/2a/Coin4.png/16px-Coin4.png). (I tested this online.)
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: grrgrrgrr on January 17, 2021, 04:13:46 pm
Will judge by tomorrow
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: grrgrrgrr on January 18, 2021, 02:43:07 pm
MENAGERIE EXTENSION CONTEST - RESULTS

Lots of good ideas again. Sorry for the wait.

Horse Thieves (Action - Attack, $4)
+$2
Each other player with 5 or more cards in hand discards a Treasure card (or reveals a hand with none). Either gain a copy of a discarded card or gain a Horse onto your deck.

Early on, this is basically a Cutpurse that also gains a Horse onto your deck. As the game progresses, and the Copper density lessens (or becomes nonexistent), the gap widens: Cutpurse becomes a terminal Silver, while Horse Thieves may force the opponent to discard a Silver or Gold, possibly gaining a copy in the process (and if you don't want to, well, here is another horse!). It is pretty much a 100% superior Cutpurse by a drastic amount; Cutpurse's stackability has next to no relevance really.

And if you play that card while the opponent only has a Gold in his hand, you got a huge swing in your favor. A little too huge for a $4 costs that produces $2 on play, if you'd ask me. An effect like this is especially devastating during the greening phase.

Way of the Manatee (Way)
Set aside an Action card from your hand. At the start of your next turn, play it twice.

This is really similar to Way of the Turtle. It lacks the ability to delay an Action indefinitely, but its effect otherwise requires less actions and less copies of a certain card. For instance, suppose you want to start your next turn with 11 cards. With Turtle, it'd mandate two spare actions, and two Smithies. But with this way, it mandates one action, one Smithy variant, and one arbitrary Acion card. Although this is a nice feature, Way of the Turtle is already good enough for this.

I think that this way can leed to very confusing setups, if you chain Action cards using this way. Additionally, it interacts very strangely with cards with a "while in play" effect. Especially if you use it on Highway: are cards going to cost less outside of your turns?

Apiary (Treasure, $5)
$2
When you next gain a card this turn, you may Exile a non-Victory card from the Supply. For the rest of the turn, cards you have a copy of in Exile cost $1 less.

This looks like a fairly awkward mashup between Silver, Charm, Transport and Quarry. The exact set of cards whose price will be deducted will be fairly hard to keep track off. And in the majority of the cases, Victory cards cannot be Exiled, so the set remains unimpressive. As such, you may wonder, is this worth implementing at all? (it will get dangerously strong when Province can be Exiled, however)

The Exiling it brings is pretty powerful, as Way of the Camel does that at the expanse of an Action and not providing $2. I think it is also good that the card doesn't do this prior to the first purchase (as it would otherwise become a Talisman that works on everything), but the implementations still strikes as (somewhat) awkward.

Gangster (Action - Attack, $5)
Gain two Horses, putting one on top of your deck.
Each other player with at least 5 cards in hand discards an Action or Treasure costing at least $2 (or reveals they can't). If they discarded a card costing at least $4, they gain a Horse.

A Villain that navigates past Victory cards. An attack that is pretty tame mid game, but can be pretty infuriating early game and late game. Villain's primary claim to fame is the Coffers gaining (in the absence of Butcher), which this card doesn't have. Instead, Villain increases the hand size of next turn. This makes the card actually far more similar to Enchantress. Enchantress doesn't hit Treasures and doesn't hit each turn, but is much cheaper. I can foresee this card this card extremely infuriating early game, potentially game breaking at that, but unlike Ghost Ship, its effectiveness dips tremendously mid game.

Jockey (Action, $2)
Gain a Horse. You may play a Horse from your hand.
-
While this is in play, when you play a Horse, +1 Action.

In the majority of the games, this is going to be the only Horse gainer. And in those cases, it is sadly going to be far too weak. The chance of drawing Jockey and Horse together will be way too low to make this an even remotely viable way to get +Actions. And turning a singular Horse into an Encampment will not be terribly exciting as playing Horse+Jockey doesn't increase your handsize.

With other horse gainers, it can be a fierce source of +Actions, although it will still be awkward to get things working.

Unicorn (Action, $8*)
+4 Cards
Gain a Horse.
-
When you buy this, you may Exile an Action card other than a Unicorn from your hand to pay $1 less per $1 it costs.

This is an interesting card, even when we already have a cost-varying drawer in Wayfarer. The self synergy is pretty potent: exiling a Horse to make this cost $5 is pretty good. And unless the RNG-gods decide you dray your Horses before Unicorn, this is also really easy to accomplish. Given that the card's effect is roughly worth $7, this interaction could make the card a little to much to the strong side. (although Grand Market is fairly similar in this regard)

I also think that exiling other cheap actions to this card is going to be extremely suboptimal compared to Exiling Horses, since they are harder to gain (unless you play with Ironworks), but the value is roughly on par. Exiling Villages in particular will be really suboptimal. This can make the effect somewhat one-dimensional. Although the presence of +Buy, Actions that outlive their usefulness and Transport will be exceptions to this. FINALIST

Hawk (Action-Duration, $5)

Now or at the start of your next turn: gain a card to your hand costing up to $4.

I'm going to take your second submission, even though you forgot to alter the OP. It definitely should be a $5 cost, as it is in the same league as Falconer, Cobbler and Sculptor. It has the disadvantage of being always terminal, but the versatility definitely makes up for it. In fact, I kinda view this as the way Falconer should have been, as it is much less luck dependent. It is going to be pretty powerful, though. It will likely be initially used for its Duration effect, and later on for its current-turn effect when there are enough +Actions. In that sense it is similar to Artisan: it cannot gain $5 costs, but doesn't lower the handsize as much.

Bit unfortunate that I cannot see anything about this in the Secret History; maybe I'm not paying enough attention. It sounds like a very trivial use for the subtheme this card uses. FINALIST

Horse Catcher (Action, $3)
Choose one: +2 Cards; or gain 2 Horses; or gain a Horse to your hand
-
While this is in play, when an Action you played leaves play, you may Exile it

The top part looks fine for a $3 cost. The bottom part looks worrisome, though. If there is some way to manipulate the position of Horse Catcher in your deck, this card is going to hoard a lot of Horses very consistently. Of course, you will need +Actions to get any good use out of this card, but I am afraid it will still be too much for a $3 cost.

Quote
Stablehand (Action, $3*)
+1 Action
You may discard a treasure from your hand to gain two horses.
-
When you buy this, instead of paying the cost, you may exile a horse from your hand

Yeah, this is very weak. Maybe if there was also +1 Card in the effect, it would be somewhat passable. The below-the-line part isn't going to mean much when the card only costs $3.

Horse Trade (Event, $4)
Gain a Horse per Silver you have in play

This will be a niche card for the most part; it heavily relies on +Buy to be any good. But when this is present, it can be quite a powerhouse. Especially with Watchtower, this can be a cheaper Stampede with no limitations! You obviously need a deck that can support the Silver; it won't outperform Experiment when you only have two silvers. But Horse Trade itself helps in this, and supporting $3 or $4 Silvers is usually not that big of a deal. It will be especially nice with Seer. I think replies #460 and #461 are spot on. FINALIST

Way of the Caribou (Way)
+3 Cards
Each other player draws a card.

This looks like a nice Way. It packs many similarities with Way of the Otter. As a drawer, it is much stronger and it could potentially be your only source of draw. But to use it without +Actions can be quite risky. Much like Counsil Room, this is going to be good with handsize attacks. I like it. I am also going to be curious at the dynamic in Champion games: are people going to spam Attacks so that the opponent won't get the advantage? FINALIST

Way of the Rabit (Way)
Trash this. Gain two cheaper Action cards.

This obviously should be "Return to the supply" or it will have a bad interaction with Fortress. Disregarding that, this seems to be rather weak. It needs to have an Action that outlives its usefulness AND cheaper spammable cards to be of any use. And even then, there needs to be the opportunity cost to play this before the spammable actions run out. This will definitely have its uses, but Way of the Butterfly generally does the exchanging part better.

VERDICT
The top 4 will be:
4) Hawk
3) Horse Trade
2) Unicorn
1) Way of the Caribou

Congratulations, Timinou, for winning this contest! Also, congratulations to the other finalists and thanks for the submissions.

This also brings the next question: What will the next contest be?
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Timinou on January 18, 2021, 04:28:24 pm
Thanks, grrgrrgrr!  I think there were a lot of cool and interesting submissions this week.

With regards to the future of this competition, I like the suggestion of doing another round to design a Promo.  After that, we could keep this going for crossovers between two expansions.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Holger on January 18, 2021, 04:57:38 pm
Way of the Rabit (Way)
Trash this. Gain two cheaper Action cards.

This obviously should be "Return to the supply" or it will have a bad interaction with Fortress. Disregarding that, this seems to be rather weak. It needs to have an Action that outlives its usefulness AND cheaper spammable cards to be of any use. And even then, there needs to be the opportunity cost to play this before the spammable actions run out. This will definitely have its uses, but Way of the Butterfly generally does the exchanging part better.
Why spammable? The two cards gained can be different. I'd gladly use this both on a Witch after the curses are out, and to trash a Chapel for nothing once it's done its job.
But I agree that Way of the Butterfly is usually better.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: X-tra on January 18, 2021, 05:12:49 pm
Likewise, I don't think it obviously should say "return" instead of "trash" just because of Fortress, a card who's supposed to benefit from being trashed. Otherwise, with that mindset, Fortress is obviously broken with stuff like Apprentice. Still, I agree that the card should be returned to its pile, if only to match what other Ways such as Butterfly and Horse do as well. No other Ways self-trash, and while it's probably not illegal to have one attempting to do so, I prefer not to steer too much away from pre-existing concepts.

Anyway, a round of promo cards could be really fun. Time to unleash the wacky ideas and go nuts. :)
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: segura on January 19, 2021, 01:56:46 am
Compared to other Fortress combo, this is relatively weak. There are plenty of board with no worthwhile $2s or $3s, so spending an Action to gain two of them might not be good at all.
If you change it to "return to the Supply" you get rid of other combos, like the on-trash effect of Catacombs.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Timinou on January 19, 2021, 10:21:06 am
If we do another round for Promos, I was thinking that it should have the following constraints:
- It should be playable with the Base cards alone plus any set, i.e. it should not make use of things (tokens, mats, etc) that are only found in certain expansions (so for example, no Exiling, no Reserve cards, etc; on the other hand, Night cards would OK)
- It should not introduce any new keywords

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: spineflu on January 19, 2021, 11:18:02 am
I think that's reasonable. Would Projects be allowed? or Landmarks that don't require vp tokens?
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Timinou on January 19, 2021, 11:22:59 am
I think that's reasonable. Would Projects be allowed? or Landmarks that don't require vp tokens?

That's a good question. I would say no to Projects because they would need the player markers (even if they are easily substitutable), but yes to to Landmarks that don't require VP tokens.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: X-tra on January 19, 2021, 11:24:31 am
As Timinou said, I think as long as it doesn't require expansion-specific components, it's good to go. If that is the rule to follow, then I suppose Projects wouldn't work, because they require wooden cubes (specific to Renaissance). However, Landmarks without VP tokens would work in my book.

Sauna/Avanto proves that an expansion-specific gameplay mechanic (here, split piles) can be transferred to Promos, again, as long as it can be used by itself without being dependent on other components.

But yeah, I'm just echoing what has been said already. :)
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Timinou on January 19, 2021, 08:47:23 pm
So to formally kick things off:

PROMO DESIGN CONTEST

Design a Promo card for Dominion.  The Promo card can be a card, an Event, a Way, or a Landmark.  The following restrictions will apply:

1. Your submission should not require any components that are specific to certain Expansions only.  For example, the following are not permitted:
2. Submissions should not require Potions, Platinums, or Colonies

3. Submissions should not require any of the official Artifacts or States (but feel free to create your own Artifacts or States that interact with your submission if you wish)

4. Submissions should not introduce any new keywords

5. You can use mechanics that are specific to certain expansions, as long as your submission does not violate any of the above restrictions.  So for example, the following would be permitted:
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: segura on January 20, 2021, 07:12:37 am
This is an oldie but I think it is neat for a promo. On the surface it is a more expensive Harem with variable Coin/VP values, so it will be immediately familiar. Strategically it plays different though, being perhaps most similar to Fairgrounds.

It's main downside is that due to the "modern" prevalence of engines, Province play (this does after all cost as much as Province, if there is just one further Treasure or Victory Kingdom card) is often the dominant strategy. A non-variable price, most likely $6, could be a necessary buff.

(https://i.imgur.com/6ttY1Z5.png)
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Timinou on January 20, 2021, 09:07:33 am
As currently worded, Exiled Victory cards wouldn't count for scoring, right?
Also, I don't recall if any of the official alt-VP cards or Landmarks use the phrase "in your deck".  Does it matter if something is in your discard pile at the end of the game? [EDIT: Just looked up the rules; it shouldn't matter and Exiled cards should count]
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: majiponi on January 20, 2021, 10:24:15 am
Blessed Coin
cost $4 - Treasure - Duration - Reaction
Either now or at the start of your next turn, +$2. While this is in play, when another player plays an Attack card, it doesn't affect you.
---
When another player plays an Attack card, you may first play this from your hand.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: spineflu on January 20, 2021, 10:27:13 am
I'm entering an event with a two-sided state
(https://trello-attachments.s3.amazonaws.com/5f734c336e86cd37f111e3d7/6012e120f3f2de4931370f5a/27da8b59764ed579734e785193a57e05/image.png)
(https://trello-attachments.s3.amazonaws.com/5f734c336e86cd37f111e3d7/6012e120f3f2de4931370f5a/6fd7f16932805a411a64984df7781315/image.png)

Quote
Scry • $3 • Event
You may put a card from your discard pile on the bottom of your deck. If you don't have Warned, take Warned.

Quote
Warned • State
Play with your deck face up (turn it face down when counting or shuffling). At the start of your turn, you may discard the top card from your deck.

"play with your deck face up" seems like fertile promo ground; unfortunately it also seems like it'd be a project most of the time. Pairing it with discard plucking and some weak sifting seems appropriate. This - one event card, six state cards - is still fewer cards than a typical kingdom pile, so i think it'd even be feasible to do with irl printing.

Edited - much simpler, now single sided state.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: X-tra on January 20, 2021, 11:30:37 am
Blessed Coin
cost $4 - Treasure - Duration - Reaction
Either now or at the start of your next turn, +$2. While this is in play, when another player plays an Attack card, it doesn't affect you.
---
When another player plays an Attack card, you may first play this from your hand.

Just for fun, I wanted to sketch what this three colour typing would look like on a Dominion card:

(https://i.postimg.cc/ZR4Jn52S/Blessed-Coin.png)
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Aquila on January 20, 2021, 05:11:39 pm
Entry:
Quote
Warden - Action Attack, $5 cost.
+3 Cards
+1 Buy

Each other player discards a card with +Buy amounts in its text (or reveals they can't). Those who do draw a card.
-
In games using this, Duchies are worth 1VP more.
I liked the connection of 'in games using this' and promo and landed here. Duchies are more efficient than Provinces at gaining VP; either the game is longer with Provinces still relevant, or Duchies are a 3 pile rush alt VP strategy. Buys have an influence here, so the on-play makes an impact there in a new way.



I'm entering an event with a two-sided state
(https://i.imgur.com/3FEqM1v.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/13Wq3Ok.png) / (https://i.imgur.com/C6MEgSE.png)

Quote
Scry • $3 • Event
You may place a card from your discard pile on the bottom of your deck, then turn your deck face up. If you don't have "Warned" or "Twice Warned", take "Warned".

Quote
Warned • State
After shuffling or counting your deck, turn it face up. At the start of your turn, you may discard the top card of your deck. If you do, turn this over to Twice Warned.

Quote
Twice Warned • State
After shuffling or counting your deck, turn it face up. At the start of clean up, you may discard the top card of your deck. If you do, return this (and turn your deck face down).

"play with your deck face up" seems like fertile promo ground; unfortunately it also seems like it'd be a project most of the time. Pairing it with discard plucking and some weak sifting seems appropriate. This - one event card, six state cards - is still fewer cards than a typical kingdom pile, so i think it'd even be feasible to do with irl printing.

Points of pride: putting the "what about shuffling"/"what if i need to count my deck" complaints implicitly to rest.
So Scry by itself lets you see your deck for the rest of its current shuffle. Each side of Warned turns the next new deck over, or if you don't have it anymore the deck goes face down as normal. Do I have this right? Because turning it over after counting the deck seems unnecessary, it's all face up so you can look through all of it as you count. I guess it's all public knowledge as well, technically. What's stopping your opponents leafing through your deck? (A sensible rulebook instruction saying they can't.)
And the decision to discard the top of deck with Twice Warned is between moving a junk card on and losing the deck knowledge advantage so having to pay another $3 later to regain it. I suppose it's worth it sometimes, but most likely it's a $3 better saved.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: spineflu on January 20, 2021, 07:35:07 pm

I'm entering an event with a two-sided state
(https://i.imgur.com/3FEqM1v.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/13Wq3Ok.png) / (http://]https://i.imgur.com/C6MEgSE.png)

Quote
Scry • $3 • Event
You may place a card from your discard pile on the bottom of your deck, then turn your deck face up. If you don't have "Warned" or "Twice Warned", take "Warned".

Quote
Warned • State
After shuffling or counting your deck, turn it face up. At the start of your turn, you may discard the top card of your deck. If you do, turn this over to Twice Warned.

Quote
Twice Warned • State
After shuffling or counting your deck, turn it face up. At the start of clean up, you may discard the top card of your deck. If you do, return this (and turn your deck face down).

"play with your deck face up" seems like fertile promo ground; unfortunately it also seems like it'd be a project most of the time. Pairing it with discard plucking and some weak sifting seems appropriate. This - one event card, six state cards - is still fewer cards than a typical kingdom pile, so i think it'd even be feasible to do with irl printing.

Points of pride: putting the "what about shuffling"/"what if i need to count my deck" complaints implicitly to rest.
So Scry by itself lets you see your deck for the rest of its current shuffle. Each side of Warned turns the next new deck over, or if you don't have it anymore the deck goes face down as normal. Do I have this right? Because turning it over after counting the deck seems unnecessary, it's all face up so you can look through all of it as you count. I guess it's all public knowledge as well, technically. What's stopping your opponents leafing through your deck? (A sensible rulebook instruction saying they can't.)
And the decision to discard the top of deck with Twice Warned is between moving a junk card on and losing the deck knowledge advantage so having to pay another $3 later to regain it. I suppose it's worth it sometimes, but most likely it's a $3 better saved.
after you buy Scry / have Warned or Twice Warned, you turn your deck face down for shuffling or counting; at all other times, it is face up. I suppose other players could look through it, but I think that falls under the same sort of table ettiquette as not looking at other players' hands.
As for price, consider it more that you can discard two pieces of green/junk until you buy it again.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: LibraryAdventurer on January 21, 2021, 12:48:39 am
This is a card I've had in my set for a long time, but I think it'd fit well as a promo card.

Quote
Royal Heirloom
$5 - Action - Duration
Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal an action card, put the action card in your hand and discard the rest. Then choose an action card from your hand. Play it now and play it again at the start of your next turn.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: dpm on January 21, 2021, 10:05:15 am
This is an oldie but I think it is neat for a promo. On the surface it is a more expensive Harem with variable Coin/VP values, so it will be immediately familiar. Strategically it plays different though, being perhaps most similar to Fairgrounds.

It's main downside is that due to the "modern" prevalence of engines, Province play (this does after all cost as much as Province, if there is just one further Treasure or Victory Kingdom card) is often the dominant strategy. A non-variable price, most likely $6, could be a necessary buff.

(https://i.imgur.com/6ttY1Z5.png)

This is a cool card, but what is its cost if Castles are in the kingdom? 
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: spineflu on January 21, 2021, 10:46:30 am
This is an oldie but I think it is neat for a promo. On the surface it is a more expensive Harem with variable Coin/VP values, so it will be immediately familiar. Strategically it plays different though, being perhaps most similar to Fairgrounds.

It's main downside is that due to the "modern" prevalence of engines, Province play (this does after all cost as much as Province, if there is just one further Treasure or Victory Kingdom card) is often the dominant strategy. A non-variable price, most likely $6, could be a necessary buff.

(https://i.imgur.com/6ttY1Z5.png)

This is a cool card, but what is its cost if Castles are in the kingdom?
$14 + whatever other treasures/victories are in the kingdom. It's also worth 11VP if you run the castle pile (and grab at least one Prov/Duc/Estate).
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: dpm on January 21, 2021, 02:17:22 pm
If the castles pile is empty then those 8 victory cards are no longer in the supply.  Is it intended to be "in the supply at the beginning of the game"? 
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: segura on January 21, 2021, 02:25:45 pm
Nope. So when e.g. the last Plunder is bought, the cost of Treasure Cove decreases by 1.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Holger on January 21, 2021, 05:16:49 pm

I'm entering an event with a two-sided state
(https://i.imgur.com/3FEqM1v.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/13Wq3Ok.png) / (http://]https://i.imgur.com/C6MEgSE.png)

Quote
Scry • $3 • Event
You may place a card from your discard pile on the bottom of your deck, then turn your deck face up. If you don't have "Warned" or "Twice Warned", take "Warned".

Quote
Warned • State
After shuffling or counting your deck, turn it face up. At the start of your turn, you may discard the top card of your deck. If you do, turn this over to Twice Warned.

Quote
Twice Warned • State
After shuffling or counting your deck, turn it face up. At the start of clean up, you may discard the top card of your deck. If you do, return this (and turn your deck face down).

"play with your deck face up" seems like fertile promo ground; unfortunately it also seems like it'd be a project most of the time. Pairing it with discard plucking and some weak sifting seems appropriate. This - one event card, six state cards - is still fewer cards than a typical kingdom pile, so i think it'd even be feasible to do with irl printing.

Points of pride: putting the "what about shuffling"/"what if i need to count my deck" complaints implicitly to rest.
So Scry by itself lets you see your deck for the rest of its current shuffle. Each side of Warned turns the next new deck over, or if you don't have it anymore the deck goes face down as normal. Do I have this right? Because turning it over after counting the deck seems unnecessary, it's all face up so you can look through all of it as you count. I guess it's all public knowledge as well, technically. What's stopping your opponents leafing through your deck? (A sensible rulebook instruction saying they can't.)
And the decision to discard the top of deck with Twice Warned is between moving a junk card on and losing the deck knowledge advantage so having to pay another $3 later to regain it. I suppose it's worth it sometimes, but most likely it's a $3 better saved.
after you buy Scry / have Warned or Twice Warned, you turn your deck face down for shuffling or counting; at all other times, it is face up. I suppose other players could look through it, but I think that falls under the same sort of table ettiquette as not looking at other players' hands.
As for price, consider it more that you can discard two pieces of green/junk until you buy it again.
So Scry allows you to look at your whole deck, not just the top card? That's an interesting concept, but seems very AP-prone to me...

Certainly not looking at opponents' hands is a hard rule, not just etiquette? So there should also be a ruling whether opponents can look through your face-up deck with Scry or not.

After all, all face-up cards in the game are generally public knowledge, and opponents are already allowed to count your deck, since deck size is public knowledge.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: LittleFish on January 21, 2021, 05:21:46 pm

I'm entering an event with a two-sided state
(https://i.imgur.com/3FEqM1v.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/13Wq3Ok.png) / (http://]https://i.imgur.com/C6MEgSE.png)

Quote
Scry • $3 • Event
You may place a card from your discard pile on the bottom of your deck, then turn your deck face up. If you don't have "Warned" or "Twice Warned", take "Warned".

Quote
Warned • State
After shuffling or counting your deck, turn it face up. At the start of your turn, you may discard the top card of your deck. If you do, turn this over to Twice Warned.

Quote
Twice Warned • State
After shuffling or counting your deck, turn it face up. At the start of clean up, you may discard the top card of your deck. If you do, return this (and turn your deck face down).

"play with your deck face up" seems like fertile promo ground; unfortunately it also seems like it'd be a project most of the time. Pairing it with discard plucking and some weak sifting seems appropriate. This - one event card, six state cards - is still fewer cards than a typical kingdom pile, so i think it'd even be feasible to do with irl printing.

Points of pride: putting the "what about shuffling"/"what if i need to count my deck" complaints implicitly to rest.
So Scry by itself lets you see your deck for the rest of its current shuffle. Each side of Warned turns the next new deck over, or if you don't have it anymore the deck goes face down as normal. Do I have this right? Because turning it over after counting the deck seems unnecessary, it's all face up so you can look through all of it as you count. I guess it's all public knowledge as well, technically. What's stopping your opponents leafing through your deck? (A sensible rulebook instruction saying they can't.)
And the decision to discard the top of deck with Twice Warned is between moving a junk card on and losing the deck knowledge advantage so having to pay another $3 later to regain it. I suppose it's worth it sometimes, but most likely it's a $3 better saved.
after you buy Scry / have Warned or Twice Warned, you turn your deck face down for shuffling or counting; at all other times, it is face up. I suppose other players could look through it, but I think that falls under the same sort of table ettiquette as not looking at other players' hands.
As for price, consider it more that you can discard two pieces of green/junk until you buy it again.
So Scry allows you to look at your whole deck, not just the top card? That's an interesting concept, but seems very AP-prone to me...

Certainly not looking at opponents' hands is a hard rule, not just etiquette? So there should also be a ruling whether opponents can look through your face-up deck with Scry or not.

After all, all face-up cards in the game are generally public knowledge, and opponents are already allowed to count your deck, since deck size is public knowledge.
Maybe have it be like Native Village, where you can look at the card (in this case the top card of your deck) at any time
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: spineflu on January 21, 2021, 05:42:24 pm

I'm entering an event with a two-sided state
(https://i.imgur.com/3FEqM1v.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/13Wq3Ok.png) / (https://i.imgur.com/C6MEgSE.png)

Quote
Scry • $3 • Event
You may place a card from your discard pile on the bottom of your deck, then turn your deck face up. If you don't have "Warned" or "Twice Warned", take "Warned".

Quote
Warned • State
After shuffling or counting your deck, turn it face up. At the start of your turn, you may discard the top card of your deck. If you do, turn this over to Twice Warned.

Quote
Twice Warned • State
After shuffling or counting your deck, turn it face up. At the start of clean up, you may discard the top card of your deck. If you do, return this (and turn your deck face down).

"play with your deck face up" seems like fertile promo ground; unfortunately it also seems like it'd be a project most of the time. Pairing it with discard plucking and some weak sifting seems appropriate. This - one event card, six state cards - is still fewer cards than a typical kingdom pile, so i think it'd even be feasible to do with irl printing.

Points of pride: putting the "what about shuffling"/"what if i need to count my deck" complaints implicitly to rest.
So Scry by itself lets you see your deck for the rest of its current shuffle. Each side of Warned turns the next new deck over, or if you don't have it anymore the deck goes face down as normal. Do I have this right? Because turning it over after counting the deck seems unnecessary, it's all face up so you can look through all of it as you count. I guess it's all public knowledge as well, technically. What's stopping your opponents leafing through your deck? (A sensible rulebook instruction saying they can't.)
And the decision to discard the top of deck with Twice Warned is between moving a junk card on and losing the deck knowledge advantage so having to pay another $3 later to regain it. I suppose it's worth it sometimes, but most likely it's a $3 better saved.
after you buy Scry / have Warned or Twice Warned, you turn your deck face down for shuffling or counting; at all other times, it is face up. I suppose other players could look through it, but I think that falls under the same sort of table ettiquette as not looking at other players' hands.
As for price, consider it more that you can discard two pieces of green/junk until you buy it again.
So Scry allows you to look at your whole deck, not just the top card? That's an interesting concept, but seems very AP-prone to me...

Certainly not looking at opponents' hands is a hard rule, not just etiquette? So there should also be a ruling whether opponents can look through your face-up deck with Scry or not.

After all, all face-up cards in the game are generally public knowledge, and opponents are already allowed to count your deck, since deck size is public knowledge.
nope;
you (and everyone at the table) should only be looking at/able to see the top card.

it's a friendly game with an etiquette that shouldn't really be bringing out this level of rules lawyer. i figured "turn your deck over" was easier than a constant peeking at the top, or turning the top card face up all the time, but maybe i misjudged. It's certainly less text than other options.

if you need to count a face up deck, flip it face down first.

As for the rest of your post:
Like, for a thought experiment, let's say you're playing on a glass table. you count your deck, but leave them just fanned out enough to be able to see where everything is if they were face up; if you duck under the table (not technically in the rulebook) so that you're able to see what's coming up in your deck, that's against the etiquette of the game. Or unsportsmanlike or whatever. Yeah you might win, but it's a friendly game; why are you trying to cheat to win at a friendly game?

I guess, in short, try to win, but try to win only using the knowledge you're supposed to have; you can accidentally knock over a face up deck, or know the contents of someone's discard pile, and use that knowledge to "win" but if it's not in good faith, how's it a win?

edit: and, I looked in the rulebook, it doesn't specify whether or not you can look at other players' hands; I'd guess that's equal parts convention on how a "hand" works and etiquette. I certainly wouldn't want to play open handed all the time (only when teaching, really) but that's just me.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Holger on January 21, 2021, 05:53:40 pm
This is an oldie but I think it is neat for a promo. On the surface it is a more expensive Harem with variable Coin/VP values, so it will be immediately familiar. Strategically it plays different though, being perhaps most similar to Fairgrounds.

It's main downside is that due to the "modern" prevalence of engines, Province play (this does after all cost as much as Province, if there is just one further Treasure or Victory Kingdom card) is often the dominant strategy. A non-variable price, most likely $6, could be a necessary buff.

(https://i.imgur.com/6ttY1Z5.png)

As this is almost always at least as good as Harem (you only need one other Treasure in play and one other VP card in your deck to make it +$2+2VP), it shouldn't have a fixed cost of $6 IMO.
If you want to make the price non-variable, I'd suggest $7 (which is also the price it currently has when there's no other extra Treasure or VP piles in the kingdom, and no empty piles.) But it may also be fine as is.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: emtzalex on January 21, 2021, 10:11:18 pm
The heirloom might not totally fit the tone of the rest of the game, but I like it enough to submit it here.


(https://i.imgur.com/1Lvxh22m.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/udJ0kY0m.png)


VERDANT DELL - $5
Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
Discard any number of cards for +$1 per two cards discarded (rounded up).
Heirloom: The Cheese

THE CHEESE - $5
Treasure
$2
When you buy a Card, if this is the only Treasure you have in play, +2VP.
(This is not in the Supply.)
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Gubump on January 21, 2021, 10:51:56 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/1Lvxh22m.png)

VERDANT DELL - $5
Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
Discard any number of cards for +$1 per two cards discarded (rounded up).
Heirloom: The Cheese

This is probably reasonable for (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/7/7d/Coin5.png/16px-Coin5.png) even with a 1:1 ratio. Discarding no cards at all makes it a useless cantrip, discarding 1 makes it an Oasis, and discarding 3 makes it a double Peddler with a very large drawback that's very rarely worth it. And the more you discard, the less worth it the reward is. (Discarding 5 cards for +$3 is pretty lame.  That's your whole hand if you didn't play any handsize increases beforehand.)
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: BBobb on January 21, 2021, 11:52:42 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/udJ0kY0m.png)
This needs the Heirloom type. Also, this would mess with openings too much IMO.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Timinou on January 22, 2021, 12:04:40 am


VERDANT DELL - $5
Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
Discard any number of cards for +$1 per two cards discarded (rounded up).
Heirloom: The Cheese

THE CHEESE - $5
Treasure
$2
When you buy a Card, if this is the only Treasure you have in play, +2VP.
(This is not in the Supply.)

Unfortunately, this wouldn’t qualify because of the need for VP tokens.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: segura on January 22, 2021, 02:15:58 am
This is an oldie but I think it is neat for a promo. On the surface it is a more expensive Harem with variable Coin/VP values, so it will be immediately familiar. Strategically it plays different though, being perhaps most similar to Fairgrounds.

It's main downside is that due to the "modern" prevalence of engines, Province play (this does after all cost as much as Province, if there is just one further Treasure or Victory Kingdom card) is often the dominant strategy. A non-variable price, most likely $6, could be a necessary buff.

(https://i.imgur.com/6ttY1Z5.png)

As this is almost always at least as good as Harem (you only need one other Treasure in play and one other VP card in your deck to make it +$2+2VP), it shouldn't have a fixed cost of $6 IMO.
If you want to make the price non-variable, I'd suggest $7 (which is also the price it currently has when there's no other extra Treasure or VP piles in the kingdom, and no empty piles.) But it may also be fine as is.
It is very had to say. LastFootnote has argued that Harem could very well cost $5 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9978.msg703104#msg703104). I like the variable price because it creates a relationship between the cost and the power of the card and am going to stick with it but if it is too weak $7 is, as you have said, likely the best first shot at a fixed price.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: gambit05 on January 22, 2021, 05:30:19 am
This is an oldie but I think it is neat for a promo. On the surface it is a more expensive Harem with variable Coin/VP values, so it will be immediately familiar. Strategically it plays different though, being perhaps most similar to Fairgrounds.

It's main downside is that due to the "modern" prevalence of engines, Province play (this does after all cost as much as Province, if there is just one further Treasure or Victory Kingdom card) is often the dominant strategy. A non-variable price, most likely $6, could be a necessary buff.

(https://i.imgur.com/6ttY1Z5.png)

As this is almost always at least as good as Harem (you only need one other Treasure in play and one other VP card in your deck to make it +$2+2VP), it shouldn't have a fixed cost of $6 IMO.
If you want to make the price non-variable, I'd suggest $7 (which is also the price it currently has when there's no other extra Treasure or VP piles in the kingdom, and no empty piles.) But it may also be fine as is.
It is very had to say. LastFootnote has argued that Harem could very well cost $5 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9978.msg703104#msg703104). I like the variable price because it creates a relationship between the cost and the power of the card and am going to stick with it but if it is too weak $7 is, as you have said, likely the best first shot at a fixed price.

I don't know whether the card as is has a reasonable cost on various boards, but I would like to say that the idea is brilliant. I've thought a lot in the past couple of months about different ways to create cards with variable costs. This one easily beats all of them.

 
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Holger on January 22, 2021, 07:56:22 am
(https://i.imgur.com/1Lvxh22m.png)

VERDANT DELL - $5
Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
Discard any number of cards for +$1 per two cards discarded (rounded up).
Heirloom: The Cheese

This is probably reasonable for (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/7/7d/Coin5.png/16px-Coin5.png) even with a 1:1 ratio. Discarding no cards at all makes it a useless cantrip, discarding 1 makes it an Oasis, and discarding 3 makes it a double Peddler with a very large drawback that's very rarely worth it. And the more you discard, the less worth it the reward is. (Discarding 5 cards for +$3 is pretty lame.  That's your whole hand if you didn't play any handsize increases beforehand.)

Agreed. Actually, Verdant Dell is clearly worse than Mill (which costs $4 and gives 1 VP) unless you discard 5 or more cards (or exactly 1, in which case it's just an Oasis).
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: grrgrrgrr on January 23, 2021, 05:19:37 am
(https://i.imgur.com/OzhyEm7.jpg)
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: silverspawn on January 23, 2021, 06:01:51 am
Inb4 the people in the theater unanimously decided to become Treasure Hunters.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: segura on January 23, 2021, 08:36:51 am
Suggested wording along the lines of Command cards:
Play the set aside acard, leaving it there. +1 Action per Action it gives.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: mandioca15 on January 23, 2021, 10:21:01 am
Not sure how viable/broken this is, but as it's Promotions week:

Chameleon (Action-Command, $5)

Play the last-played Action card this turn, leaving it there; if you can't, +1 Card, +1 Action, +$1.

This mimics whatever your previous Action card did. If you don't have any, it's just a Peddler.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: spineflu on January 23, 2021, 10:32:55 am
Suggested wording along the lines of Command cards:
Play the set aside acard, leaving it there. +1 Action per Action it gives.

I mean, this doesn't fully work with one shots either, but i don't think there's a ton of those at the $2 price point, embargo aside.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: silverspawn on January 23, 2021, 10:50:34 am
Suggested wording along the lines of Command cards:
Play the set aside acard, leaving it there. +1 Action per Action it gives.

Inb4 the people in the theater reconsidered and decided that watching a play about a Page wasn't enough of a reason to become Treasure Hunters
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: X-tra on January 23, 2021, 02:52:10 pm
Wacky idea incoming! Posted and tweaked via the help of some Dominion Discord users. If Giants, Golems, Werewolves and Witches can exist within Dominion’s, then so can...

(https://i.postimg.cc/52h287B3/01-Dragons.png)               (https://i.postimg.cc/76DPW5QJ/02-White-Dragon.png) (https://i.postimg.cc/Xq1VqQN9/03-Orange-Dragon.png) (https://i.postimg.cc/MHp6zhwW/04-Blue-Dragon.png) (https://i.postimg.cc/4d54kXrL/05-Green-Dragon.png)

There are 3 copies of each 4 Dragons, for 12 cards total (no matter the player count). Like Knights, they are shuffled, and all 4 Dragons share that one junking/discarding Attack. Speaking of which, there are no Attacking Promo cards, so this fills that niche!

Just to be clear on the matter, Blue Dragon sets itself aside forever with no returning mechanic when used for its Reaction, just like Prince.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Xen3k on January 23, 2021, 11:24:35 pm
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50868145558_0affd189e2_b.jpg) (https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50868145658_1e5fd54086_b.jpg)

Quote
Liegeman - $4
Action
+2 Actions
+$1
If you don't have Treaty Bound, you may Exile a card from your hand for +2 Cards.
-
Setup: Each player takes Treaty Bound.

Quote
Treaty Bound
State
When a player gains a Province, return this and trash up to 5 cards from your hand. +1 Card for each card trashed this way.

Liegeman starts as a weak Villa, but changes to a strong Lost City after the first Province is gained. The State that is given to everyone at Setup has an additional effect when you return it after any player Gains a Province. The Trash then Draw effect will inherently benefit the players not buying the Province more, unless the active player takes care to ensure they will benefit from the effect. I am not sure how balanced this is and would greatly appreciate any suggestions or criticisms.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: grrgrrgrr on January 24, 2021, 12:24:29 am
Suggested wording along the lines of Command cards:
Play the set aside acard, leaving it there. +1 Action per Action it gives.

This would make the card absolutely ludicrous with Encampment, and vanilla with Page, Ratcatcher and Pixie. On top of that, the card's effect is the same for every player throughout the entire game (unlike Inheritance and the Command cards), so there won't be any confusions.

Wacky idea incoming! Posted and tweaked via the help of some Dominion Discord users. If Giants, Golems, Werewolves and Witches can exist within Dominion’s, then so can...

(https://i.postimg.cc/52h287B3/01-Dragons.png)               (https://i.postimg.cc/76DPW5QJ/02-White-Dragon.png) (https://i.postimg.cc/Xq1VqQN9/03-Orange-Dragon.png) (https://i.postimg.cc/MHp6zhwW/04-Blue-Dragon.png) (https://i.postimg.cc/4d54kXrL/05-Green-Dragon.png)

There are 3 copies of each 4 Dragons, for 12 cards total (no matter the player count). Like Knights, they are shuffled, and all 4 Dragons share that one junking/discarding Attack. Speaking of which, there are no Attacking Promo cards, so this fills that niche!

Just to be clear on the matter, Blue Dragon sets itself aside forever with no returning mechanic when used for its Reaction, just like Prince.

Cool idea! Maybe adding a Yellow Dragon to the mix that is an Action-Treasure (or Black Dragon, as Night cards are allowed). And I'd rework the Blue Dragon cause this is just straight up confusing.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: X-tra on January 24, 2021, 11:28:12 am
Cool idea! Maybe adding a Yellow Dragon to the mix that is an Action-Treasure (or Black Dragon, as Night cards are allowed). And I'd rework the Blue Dragon cause this is just straight up confusing.

Thanks! I avoided a Treasure and Night variation of Dragons since I really wanted that nasty Attack to be terminal. This can be avoided somewhat by having these variations be dual typed (like Crown or Werewolf), but that would make this concept more complicated.

As for Blue Dragon, I could have it self trash when Reacting, and I thought of it too, but in the end, I wanted it to "stay" in your deck for it to still give a (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/9/92/VP.png/16px-VP.png) for the purpose of Green Dragon.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: spineflu on January 24, 2021, 11:41:36 am
Cool idea! Maybe adding a Yellow Dragon to the mix that is an Action-Treasure (or Black Dragon, as Night cards are allowed). And I'd rework the Blue Dragon cause this is just straight up confusing.

Thanks! I avoided a Treasure and Night variation of Dragons since I really wanted that nasty Attack to be terminal. This can be avoided somewhat by having these variations be dual typed (like Crown or Werewolf), but that would make this concept more complicated.

As for Blue Dragon, I could have it self trash when Reacting, and I thought of it too, but in the end, I wanted it to "stay" in your deck for it to still give a (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/9/92/VP.png/16px-VP.png) for the purpose of Green Dragon.

could just do the Crossroads thing, "If this is the first Black / Gold dragon, you've played this turn" for those two.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: silverspawn on January 24, 2021, 01:14:45 pm
Just add an '(it stays set side for the rest of the game)' into the card text. Official cards have such clarifications, too.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: segura on January 24, 2021, 01:54:59 pm
Wacky idea incoming! Posted and tweaked via the help of some Dominion Discord users. If Giants, Golems, Werewolves and Witches can exist within Dominion’s, then so can...

(https://i.postimg.cc/52h287B3/01-Dragons.png)               (https://i.postimg.cc/76DPW5QJ/02-White-Dragon.png) (https://i.postimg.cc/Xq1VqQN9/03-Orange-Dragon.png) (https://i.postimg.cc/MHp6zhwW/04-Blue-Dragon.png) (https://i.postimg.cc/4d54kXrL/05-Green-Dragon.png)

There are 3 copies of each 4 Dragons, for 12 cards total (no matter the player count). Like Knights, they are shuffled, and all 4 Dragons share that one junking/discarding Attack. Speaking of which, there are no Attacking Promo cards, so this fills that niche!

Just to be clear on the matter, Blue Dragon sets itself aside forever with no returning mechanic when used for its Reaction, just like Prince.
I don't like this. The Attack is initially weaker than Sea Hag and the other stuff varies a lot in power. Blue Dragon seems to stay in nirvana forever so it only net gains one card so that's probably OK. A Night or Treasure Dragon wouldn't be overpowered.
But the main issues is that you do very rarely want more than one or two Dragons.  Even if there are no Witches and Militias in the Kingdom, the other stuff that the Dragons do is too weak to make you waste that precious $5 slot on them. Also, it is not like with Knights where the very mechanics of the card create a run on the pile.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: X-tra on January 24, 2021, 02:15:15 pm
Just add an '(it stays set side for the rest of the game)' into the card text. Official cards have such clarifications, too.
I was looking at Prince and Inheritance for guidance for the set aside wording. Both of these do not mention anything about the cards being set aside for the rest of the game.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: silverspawn on January 24, 2021, 02:49:59 pm
Well, Village doesn't say +2 Actions (Actions, not Action Cards). Diadem does because there it's intuitively more confusing. Reaction in this thread suggests that Blue Dragon is intuitively confusing.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: X-tra on January 24, 2021, 04:03:24 pm
Well, Village doesn't say +2 Actions (Actions, not Action Cards). Diadem does because there it's intuitively more confusing. Reaction in this thread suggests that Blue Dragon is intuitively confusing.

You know what? Time for me to agree. This caused the same confusion when posted in the Discord server, and by more than one user too. So, even if the wording is technically correct, it is always appreciated to help the players to not misplay (or, erm, "misreact") a card. The fact that I even pre-emptively warned about Blue Dragon's behaviour in my original submission post is proof enough that perhaps something's amiss here. So, here's a little addition to that card to make it more user-friendly:

(https://i.postimg.cc/52H6y04q/Blue-Dragon-v2.png)

Based on the wording of Hireling and Champion.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Timinou on January 24, 2021, 07:56:10 pm
What is the reason for setting aside Blue Dragon rather than trashing it as part of the Reaction?  Are you trying to avoid Lurker shenanigans?
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: X-tra on January 24, 2021, 08:05:53 pm
What is the reason for setting aside Blue Dragon rather than trashing it as part of the Reaction?  Are you trying to avoid Lurker shenanigans?

I want it to still give (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/9/92/VP.png/16px-VP.png) for Green Dragon.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: emtzalex on January 26, 2021, 03:23:03 am


VERDANT DELL - $5
Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
Discard any number of cards for +$1 per two cards discarded (rounded up).
Heirloom: The Cheese

THE CHEESE - $5
Treasure
$2
When you buy a Card, if this is the only Treasure you have in play, +2VP.
(This is not in the Supply.)

Unfortunately, this wouldn’t qualify because of the need for VP tokens.

My bad. If its not too late I would like to submit this one instead:

(https://i.imgur.com/t92arc6m.png)


Cask of Amontillado - $4
Treasure
$2
+1 Buy
-----------------
When you gain this, you may Trash an Action card you have in play.

Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Commodore Chuckles on January 26, 2021, 06:30:30 pm
Hi, everyone! It's been a long time since I've participated in these contests!

(https://i.imgur.com/Rr80m4L.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/t2byciV.png)

This is my entry, a totally nutty Event/Artifact combo. It's a redo of the Cursed Bottle/Bottle Imp idea I posted here a while back. It completely changes the game, but hopefully in a fun way. In the beginning of the game, you'll be buying this every turn, but toward the end you'll have to decide if it's worth the risk of getting stuck with it.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: mutated on January 26, 2021, 06:55:20 pm


VERDANT DELL - $5
Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
Discard any number of cards for +$1 per two cards discarded (rounded up).
Heirloom: The Cheese

THE CHEESE - $5
Treasure
$2
When you buy a Card, if this is the only Treasure you have in play, +2VP.
(This is not in the Supply.)

Unfortunately, this wouldn’t qualify because of the need for VP tokens.

My bad. If its not too late I would like to submit this one instead:

(https://i.imgur.com/t92arc6m.png)


Cask of Amontillado - $4
Treasure
$2
+1 Buy
-----------------
When you gain this, you may Trash an Action card you have in play.

Two small things.

Utterly pedantic formatting change: you don't need to capitalize trash in the middle of a sentence.

Avoiding hard-to-track effects: consider trashing only non-Duration Action cards from play. I believe only Bonfire can directly trash Durations from play, but this can cause tracking issues as the Duration effects still occur.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: emtzalex on January 26, 2021, 10:00:27 pm
Cask of Amontillado - $4
Treasure
$2
+1 Buy
-----------------
When you gain this, you may Trash an Action card you have in play.

Two small things.

Utterly pedantic formatting change: you don't need to capitalize trash in the middle of a sentence.

Avoiding hard-to-track effects: consider trashing only non-Duration Action cards from play. I believe only Bonfire can directly trash Durations from play, but this can cause tracking issues as the Duration effects still occur.
Thank you! I copied the text from Bonfire (including the capitalized "T" apparently), but that is a good point about trashing Duration Actions. I also prevented it from trashing Reactions for thematic purposes. Here's the new version:

(https://i.imgur.com/syH45Ahm.png)

Cask of Amontillado - $4
Treasure
$2
+1 Buy
-----------------
When you gain this, you may trash a non-Duration, non-Reaction Action card you have in play.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: LittleFish on January 26, 2021, 10:21:47 pm
Cask of Amontillado - $4
Treasure
$2
+1 Buy
-----------------
When you gain this, you may Trash an Action card you have in play.

Two small things.

Utterly pedantic formatting change: you don't need to capitalize trash in the middle of a sentence.

Avoiding hard-to-track effects: consider trashing only non-Duration Action cards from play. I believe only Bonfire can directly trash Durations from play, but this can cause tracking issues as the Duration effects still occur.
Thank you! I copied the text from Bonfire (including the capitalized "T" apparently), but that is a good point about trashing Duration Actions. I also prevented it from trashing Reactions for thematic purposes. Here's the new version:

(https://i.imgur.com/syH45Ahm.png)

Cask of Amontillado - $4
Treasure
$2
+1 Buy
-----------------
When you gain this, you may trash a non-Duration, non-Reaction Action card you have in play.
Why a non-reaction?
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: emtzalex on January 26, 2021, 11:15:56 pm
Hi, everyone! It's been a long time since I've participated in these contests!

(https://i.imgur.com/Rr80m4L.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/t2byciV.png)

This is my entry, a totally nutty Event/Artifact combo. It's a redo of the Cursed Bottle/Bottle Imp idea I posted here a while back. It completely changes the game, but hopefully in a fun way. In the beginning of the game, you'll be buying this every turn, but toward the end you'll have to decide if it's worth the risk of getting stuck with it.

I really like these. This mechanic feels fun, original, and thematically super on point. That said, playing with these would also be completely insane, and feel almost nothing like a regular game.

The simplest way to pull that back would be to have the gain-to-hand happen at the beginning of the turn, but that goes too far in the other direction, as you'd almost always have the Imp stolen before you get anything, until your opponents give up. One compromise might be to "At the start of your turn, gain a card to your hand costing up to $6. When drawing your hand, if you have not gained a card using this Artifact this turn, gain a card to your new hand costing up to $4."

A more modest change would be to take the "+1 Buy" off of Uncork. Players would have to choose between taking the Bottle Imp (and thus gaining a $5 card to their hand) and buying a card, at least until they could get a +Buy card. 

I did have one question. Do you get to see your new hand before you choose what card to gain? It's not clear from the wording.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: spineflu on January 26, 2021, 11:25:15 pm
Hi, everyone! It's been a long time since I've participated in these contests!

(https://i.imgur.com/Rr80m4L.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/t2byciV.png)

This is my entry, a totally nutty Event/Artifact combo. It's a redo of the Cursed Bottle/Bottle Imp idea I posted here a while back. It completely changes the game, but hopefully in a fun way. In the beginning of the game, you'll be buying this every turn, but toward the end you'll have to decide if it's worth the risk of getting stuck with it.

welcome back! the WDC moved to its own subboard, if you're looking for that
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: emtzalex on January 26, 2021, 11:32:19 pm
Cask of Amontillado - $4
Treasure
$2
+1 Buy
-----------------
When you gain this, you may Trash an Action card you have in play.

Two small things.

Utterly pedantic formatting change: you don't need to capitalize trash in the middle of a sentence.

Avoiding hard-to-track effects: consider trashing only non-Duration Action cards from play. I believe only Bonfire can directly trash Durations from play, but this can cause tracking issues as the Duration effects still occur.
Thank you! I copied the text from Bonfire (including the capitalized "T" apparently), but that is a good point about trashing Duration Actions. I also prevented it from trashing Reactions for thematic purposes. Here's the new version:

(https://i.imgur.com/syH45Ahm.png)

Cask of Amontillado - $4
Treasure
$2
+1 Buy
-----------------
When you gain this, you may trash a non-Duration, non-Reaction Action card you have in play.
Why a non-reaction?
It's purely thematic / for flavor. A react-er would be too adroit to be drunkenly lured into catacombs and bricked inside a wall.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Commodore Chuckles on January 27, 2021, 12:17:26 am
Hi, everyone! It's been a long time since I've participated in these contests!

This is my entry, a totally nutty Event/Artifact combo. It's a redo of the Cursed Bottle/Bottle Imp idea I posted here a while back. It completely changes the game, but hopefully in a fun way. In the beginning of the game, you'll be buying this every turn, but toward the end you'll have to decide if it's worth the risk of getting stuck with it.

I really like these. This mechanic feels fun, original, and thematically super on point. That said, playing with these would also be completely insane, and feel almost nothing like a regular game.

The simplest way to pull that back would be to have the gain-to-hand happen at the beginning of the turn, but that goes too far in the other direction, as you'd almost always have the Imp stolen before you get anything, until your opponents give up. One compromise might be to "At the start of your turn, gain a card to your hand costing up to $6. When drawing your hand, if you have not gained a card using this Artifact this turn, gain a card to your new hand costing up to $4."

A more modest change would be to take the "+1 Buy" off of Uncork. Players would have to choose between taking the Bottle Imp (and thus gaining a $5 card to their hand) and buying a card, at least until they could get a +Buy card. 

I did have one question. Do you get to see your new hand before you choose what card to gain? It's not clear from the wording.

Yes, it's intended that you first draw your hand, then gain the card. I could reword it to make it clearer.

As for removing the +1 Buy, I considered that, but then that would just make the beginnings of games really boring, I think. Everyone would just buy Uncork and nothing else.

I also don't think giving a bonus for holding on to it until your next turn will work. I suspect the way this would be played is that it will bounce back and forth regularly until one player decides they don't want it anymore. I honestly think it would be rare for someone to stop buying it and then later decide they want it again. I could be wrong, though.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Timinou on January 27, 2021, 01:02:02 am
What happens if you gain Cavalry with Bottle Imp?  Would you start your next turn with a hand of 8 cards?
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: BBobb on January 27, 2021, 01:06:17 am
What happens if you gain Cavalry with Bottle Imp?  Would you start your next turn with a hand of 8 cards?
I'm pretty sure that you would put the Cavalry in hand, then draw two cards. So, yes you would start the turn with 8 cards (and 2 Buys) pretty powerful if i might say myself (especially with villages for the terminal Cavalries). Someone else correct if I'm wrong pls.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: emtzalex on January 27, 2021, 03:06:08 am
As for removing the +1 Buy, I considered that, but then that would just make the beginnings of games really boring, I think. Everyone would just buy Uncork and nothing else.

I agree that that is definitely what all of the players would do, but I don't think that would make the game boring. Even if everyone bought Uncork, the card they gained to their hand each turn would be different, and gaining a powerful card to your hand each turn would substantially speed up game starts. This would only accelerate as you can start selecting the cards you gain to go with the ones that will be in your hand (e.g. if you have a Bazaar, gain a Smithy or Torturer; gain one Treasure Map on turn 1 or 2, then gain the other when the first one is in your hand).

I think of it like a super-charged Alms. When Alms is present, I almost always use it at least once on the first two turns, as one is always worth less than the guaranteed $4 card I can get from Alms. Even though it costs my Buy and my coppers go unused, it is still the best play. The same would be true here. I would be thrilled to spend my one Buy to gain the strong card I want to my hand.


I also don't think giving a bonus for holding on to it until your next turn will work. I suspect the way this would be played is that it will bounce back and forth regularly until one player decides they don't want it anymore.

I think that's right. You would lose most of the effect and the thematic element of awesome power with a terrible risk.


I honestly think it would be rare for someone to stop buying it and then later decide they want it again. I could be wrong, though.

I mostly agree with Uncork having +1 Buy, but I think another twist that gets added by taking that away is that there would be at least some contexts where a player might forego using Uncork to, for example, buy a Province, Gold, or other high-priced card instead (especially in a game with no +Buys). But by doing so, you are giving your opponent the same opportunity, as they no longer need to spend their Buy on Uncork to get the Imp back (at least in a 2 player game). The strategy of that gets really interesting, because the opponent had to choose their card for their turn before knowing they would get a free Buy, but they did know what you chose, which might have tipped them off (unless you were careful not to do so).

I also think there might be some other limited circumstances, especially in a game with Colonies, in which it might be viable to grab the Imp late and try to use it to quickly take two colonies for a net VP positive.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: segura on January 27, 2021, 07:10:38 am
It is a cool card but my hunch is that the VP value is too low. You can always get a free Duchy via the Bottle Imp, so the value of 13, which is likely intentionally 1VP more than the spread of one Provinces in a 2P game, might not suffice.
But this is impossible to determine in theory, it is a playtesting thing.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Commodore Chuckles on January 27, 2021, 05:14:37 pm
It is a cool card but my hunch is that the VP value is too low. You can always get a free Duchy via the Bottle Imp, so the value of 13, which is likely intentionally 1VP more than the spread of one Provinces in a 2P game, might not suffice.
But this is impossible to determine in theory, it is a playtesting thing.

Actually, I just chose 13 because it's the unlucky number :P Regardless, you could be right that the penalty needs to be greater, I'm not sure either.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Holger on January 28, 2021, 09:22:07 am
It is a cool card but my hunch is that the VP value is too low. You can always get a free Duchy via the Bottle Imp, so the value of 13, which is likely intentionally 1VP more than the spread of one Provinces in a 2P game, might not suffice.
But this is impossible to determine in theory, it is a playtesting thing.

Actually, I just chose 13 because it's the unlucky number :P Regardless, you could be right that the penalty needs to be greater, I'm not sure either.

I think tweaking the penalty value would just change how early you would stop buying Uncork (the higher, the earlier), not change the strategy much. I expect that it will generally be a must-buy in the early game with 13 VP, so if you want it to be ignorable in some games, a higher penalty would be warranted.

But you could also keep it as is and go the "Donate route" where you (almost) always want to buy it at some point, but the interesting part is in the timing...
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: spineflu on January 28, 2021, 11:10:56 am
updated Scry + Warned to be much simpler, should be easier to read/understand.  (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20521.msg861033#msg861033)
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Timinou on January 28, 2021, 01:29:15 pm
48(ish)-hour warning

I will probably pick the winners this Saturday.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Meta on January 29, 2021, 10:05:12 am
Withdrawn

(https://i.postimg.cc/y81XDbjR/Phoenix4.png)

Translation:
--------------------------------
+1 Card
+1 Buy

When you trash trash this, or discard this during your action phase, put it into your hand.

During your buy phase, this card costs 3$.

0*$ P    Action - Treasure - Curse - Victory
--------------------------------

This card should still qualify for this contest, as it doesn't require potions to buy (It's actual cost is 3$).

2. Submissions should not require Potions, Platinums, or Colonies

5. You can use mechanics that are specific to certain expansions, as long as your submission does not violate any of the above restrictions.  So for example, the following would be permitted:
  • Duration cards
  • Night cards
  • Heirlooms
  • Mixed piles
  • Split piles

The 0* Cost is important, as to not facilitate infinite Gold with Mine/Expand.
The Potion Cost is important, so you can't gain it, unless it's your buy phase.

The 4 card type combination, is designed, so it can counter mountebank and also be overpowered with Courtier.
That combined with the ability to put it into your hand after discarding makes it optimal with Shepherd, Cellar, Secret chamber, Vault etc. and as a "defence" against Militia etc.

Those qualities should make it unique enough to be considered a Promo.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: BBobb on January 29, 2021, 10:53:47 am
(https://i.postimg.cc/y81XDbjR/Phoenix4.png)

Translation:
--------------------------------
+1 Card
+1 Buy

When you trash trash this, or discard this during your action phase, put it into your hand.

During your buy phase, this card costs 3$.

0*$ P    Action - Treasure - Curse - Victory
Maybe it's just me, but I don't really see the purpose of this card. Other than nerfing cursers, it doesn't do anything. Let's consider a random game, for example, or, instead, the First Game set. It interacts with 3 cards, Mine, Cellar, and Remodel. With Mine, you gain a Silver to your hand. Probably about (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/2/2a/Coin4.png/16px-Coin4.png)-4.5 power level, weak. With cellar, it essentially adds +1 Card. This one's is actually pretty powerful. But then again, it is pretty much junk, so if you hadn't had it at all, you would still have the extra card. With Remodel, It is gain an Estate or a Cellar. Extremely weak. So, I don't really see when this card can do much.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Meta on January 29, 2021, 11:27:59 am
Maybe it's just me, but I don't really see the purpose of this card. Other than nerfing cursers, it doesn't do anything. Let's consider a random game, for example, or, instead, the First Game set. It interacts with 3 cards, Mine, Cellar, and Remodel. With Mine, you gain a Silver to your hand. Probably about (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/2/2a/Coin4.png/16px-Coin4.png)-4.5 power level, weak. With cellar, it essentially adds +1 Card. This one's is actually pretty powerful. But then again, it is pretty much junk, so if you hadn't had it at all, you would still have the extra card. With Remodel, It is gain an Estate or a Cellar. Extremely weak. So, I don't really see when this card can do much.

This Card is balanced for the way that we play it, which I forgot to consider in the rebalancing.
We never play with random sets (usually each player chooses like 3 cards or someone just chooses all of them, meaning that Phoenix is always at least somewhat useful) and we always play with cellar.

So I may have to change the text to +2 Cards +1 Buy. The price of 3$ may be too low for such a card.

The only other way I see to balance this card is to make it a split pile, I'll have to see what I'm going to do.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Meta on January 29, 2021, 11:54:25 am
Withdrawn

(https://i.postimg.cc/RZCKSpQD/Phoenix6.png)

Translation:
--------------------------------
+4 Cards
Trash a card from your hand and discard a card from your hand.

When you trash trash this, or discard this during your action phase, put it into your hand.

During your buy phase, this card costs 4$.

0*$ P    Action - Treasure - Curse - Victory
--------------------------------

This way Phoenix will always be useful, and is also a trasher.
4$ seems appropriate, as it's basically +2 cards (unless you have another Phoenix), but it may be too good.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: segura on January 29, 2021, 12:15:57 pm
You buffed an absolutely useless card into an absolute monster. We know from Masquerade how powerful drawing and trashing is. While this is not strictly better than Pooka, it is nonetheless far better than it.

I don't get why the card has the Fortress feature, due to the Coin cost of $0 it is utterly pointless for TfB. This combined with the Potion cost creates precisely one interaction with Apprentice.
The four types are ambiguous with Cursers and create again only one interaction with Courtier.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: spineflu on January 29, 2021, 12:27:41 pm
You buffed an absolutely useless card into an absolute monster. We know from Masquerade how powerful drawing and trashing is. While this is not strictly better than Pooka, it is nonetheless far better than it.

I don't get why the card has the Fortress feature, due to the Coin cost of $0 it is utterly pointless for TfB. This combined with the Potion cost creates precisely one interaction with Apprentice.
The four types are ambiguous with Cursers and create again only one interaction with Courtier.
90% agree but Iron-whatevers/groom/etc will care about the four type thing.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Gubump on January 29, 2021, 01:09:59 pm
Phoenix also has an accountability issue. If you discard multiple cards, like with Cellar, your opponents don't see the Phoenix unless it's on top. It needs to both be optional to put into your hand and a Reaction a la Village Green and Tunnel.
Also, it doesn't need the big -0(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/9/92/VP.png/16px-VP.png), (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/5/5d/Coin0.png/16px-Coin0.png), or 0(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/9/92/VP.png/16px-VP.png) symbols.
I agree with the others that the Victory and Curse types just make it needlessly complex.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: BBobb on January 29, 2021, 01:34:54 pm
You buffed an absolutely useless card into an absolute monster. We know from Masquerade how powerful drawing and trashing is. While this is not strictly better than Pooka, it is nonetheless far better than it.
I totally agree with this. The card is OP. I also wanted to mention that you can also play this in your Buy phase, so it can essentially become non-terminal also, making the card even more OP.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Meta on January 29, 2021, 02:59:16 pm
I will withdraw my entry, as it doesn't seem to be liked by any people.
Furthermore the potion cost is actually essential, as otherwise you could use remodel to trash a copper and gain a phoenix.
The card being op in it's current state is probably true, that's another reason as to why I'm withdrawing from this contest.
The big symbols are inspired by harem and aren't necessary but make the card unique, which a promo is supposed to be.
The card being played during ones buy phase was not intended, it would be much too op that way.
The cost being 0 and having four types has more interactions with some of my custom cards, that's mainly why I included it.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Timinou on January 31, 2021, 04:54:39 am
Promo Contest Results

Treasure Cove by segura *Short-List*
Quote
$? - Treasure - Victory
+$1 per differently named Treasure in play
Worth 1VP for every differently named Victory card in your deck.
-
This costs $1 per differently named Treasure and Victory card in the Supply.
Treasure Cove is an intriguing alt-VP and Treasure hybrid that could play quite differently in various Kingdoms. In a Province game with no other Kingdom Treasures or Victory cards, Treasure Cove would cost $7 (assuming no empty piles) and could potentially be worth up to 4VP each and be worth up to $4.  With a similar cost per VP to Duchies, Treasure Cove appears to be better value for money than Harem. In games with Colonies and Platinums, Treasure Cove would cost $9 and I think more often than not you would opt for either Provinces or Platinums over Treasure Cove.

If we imagine a Province game where you have a couple of other Treasures and no other Victory cards, Treasure Cove would cost $9, but be worth at most 4VP at the end of the game. On the other hand, Treasure Cove could potentially be worth $6 if you have all the different types of Treasure in play.  In such games, Treasure Cove becomes more appealing for economy rather than for VP, provided that you are able to consistently draw a large hand.  It probably compares poorly to Bank as a Treasure, but the additional VP you get could still be worthwhile.

In a Kingdom with no other Treasures, but a couple of other VP cards, Treasure Coves could provide potentially as many points as Provinces and also up to $4.  This could create an interesting choice in some situations between purchasing Provinces or Treasure Coves. 

The dynamic in games with Castles would be quite different.  At the beginning of the game, assuming no other Kingdom Treasures or Victory cards are present, Treasure Cove would cost $15 and be potentially worth up to 12VP each at the end of the game.  However, as Castles start getting bought up, the cost of Treasure Cove starts to decrease, and they will likely be more attractive than Provinces.

Overall, I like the concept of Treasure Cove even though it is hard to evaluate if it is appropriately priced.  I agree with the choice of a variable cost rather than a fixed one; however, I suspect that it may be overpriced in many games.  I wonder if Treasure Cove's cost should only care about the number of Victory cards in the Kingdom rather than Victory cards and Treasure cards.  My reasoning for this is two-fold: (i) the difficulty of maximizing the VP value that each Treasure Cove gives at the end of the game vs. the amount of $ it gives you at each play doesn't scale the same way (and I would argue it is easier to maximize it's VP value), and (ii) even if Treasure Cove were to give you a large amount of $ because there are a bunch of Treasures available and you are able to get them into play, you are still limited by the amount of Buys that you have (whereas no such limitation exists for VP).   



Blessed Coin by majiponi
Quote
$4 - Treasure - Duration - Reaction
Either now or at the start of your next turn, +$2. While this is in play, when another player plays an Attack card, it doesn't affect you.
---
When another player plays an Attack card, you may first play this from your hand.
Blessed Coin has an eclectic mix of card types.  As far as I'm aware, this would be the only Reaction card that could potentially provide you with protection from Attacks during the round in which you have it in hand, and potentially the next round as well if no Attacks are played in the current round and you opt for $2 in your next turn. 

Even in Kingdoms without any Attack cards, Blessed Coin can be functionally equivalent to "Saving" a Silver and so it is still quite useful at a cost of $4. 

My main concern with the card is that their presence in a Kingdom could turn off players from gaining Attack cards altogether (which I recognize might actually be a positive for players that dislike strong Attack cards in general). Most other cards that nullify Attacks (e.g. Moat, Lighthouse) are otherwise fairly weak and as such, you don't want too many of them in your deck.  With Blessed Coin, you probably don't need as many due the fact that it is both a Reaction and a Duration, and they are probably more useful to have in your deck anyway.           



Scry / Warned by spineflu *Short-List*
Quote
Scry
$3 - Event
You may put a card your discard pile on the bottom of your deck.  If you don't have Warned, take Warned.

Warned - State
Play with your deck face up (turn it face down when counting or shuffling).  At the start of your turn, you may discard the top card from your deck.
Scry / Warned introduces a rather dramatic twist to the rules of Dominion.  I much prefer the current version with the single-sided State than the previous version with Twice Warned.  I agree that if it weren't for the constraints of this contest, this would be more streamlined as a Project than an Event.           

Playing with your deck face up almost seems too gimmicky. Even outside of a few strong card interactions e.g. Mystic or Jester (for your opponents), always knowing what the top card of your deck is and making the choice of whether or not to discard it at the start of your turn could be quite useful over the course of the game.  I can't decide if always knowing the top card of your deck would make the game more interesting or less.  On the one hand, it does alter the game in a novel way.  However, my current impression (without actually having playtested it) is that it would make it slightly less interesting.  There is often a push-your-luck element when it comes to deciding whether or not to terminally draw cards, and I feel like Scry / Warned would somewhat diminish that.   



Warden by Aquila
Quote
$5 - Action - Attack
+3 Cards
+1 Buy
Each other player discards a card with +Buy amounts in its text (or reveals they can't). Those who do draw a card.
-
In games using this, Duchies are worth 1VP more.
At first glance, Warden almost looks like Margrave, except the attack has a twist in that it only cares about cards with +Buy in their text. It also adds an additional twist whereby Duchies are more attractive to buy.

I like the fact that Warden itself gives +Buy in a game where Duchies are more desirable.  However, I think this is a double-edged sword, because in games where this would be the only source of +Buy, Warden could force opponents to discard a Warden from their hand.  In such cases, turn order becomes even more important than it already is.  The card already seems fairly weak relative to Margrave (granted that Margrave is a fairly strong card to begin with), so the additional risk of being forced to discard it because of your opponent's Warden makes it less palatable.  In my own experience, I've found that designing Attack cards that also block your opponent's copies of the card is quite tricky - and perhaps something that should be avoided.



Royal Heirloom by LibraryAdventurer *Short-List*
Quote
$5 - Action - Duration
Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal an action card, put the action card in your hand and discard the rest. Then choose an action card from your hand. Play it now and play it again at the start of your next turn.
Royal Heirloom digs through your deck to find an Action card, and then allows you to play an Action card from your hand both now and again at the start of your next turn.  Since you could play another one from your hand instead of the one that Royal Heirloom digs up, this gives you more control with Royal Heirloom than Golem, for instance.  As currently worded, Royal Heirlooms can also find/play other Royal Heirlooms, and so you could use this to strengthen your subsequent turns.

I like the general concept, although I wonder if it should only allow you to play non-Duration Action cards. 



Theatre by grrgrrgrr
Quote
$4 - Action
This card has the same types and abilities as the set aside card, but gives twice as many +Actions.
-
Setup: Set aside an unused $2 costing Action card that has +Action amounts in its text.
Theatre is a fairly unusual village that has multiple avatars.

It can moonlight as a buffed up Cellar, Lurker, Pawn, Haven, Lighthouse, Native Village, Pearl Diver, Hamlet, Crossroads, Squire, Vagrant, Candlestick Maker, Page, Ratcatcher, Raze, Encampment, Patrician, Settlers, Pixie, or Border Guard.  Every set except Menagerie would have a $2-cost Action card that would work with Theatre. 

As a first glance, there do seem to be instances where Theatre would be weak for a $4 cost card, although I don't believe there are situations where it it would be overpowered.  The main question for me was does Theatre make any of these cards more interesting in order to justify the additional set-up?  For the $2-cost cards that are already villages (e.g. Native Village, Crossroads, etc), I don't believe it does.  In some cases, I would rather play with original $2-cost card than the Theatre Version (e.g. Lurker, Page).  There are some that I would be more inclined to want to try (e.g. Theatre-Cellar or Theatre-Border Guard), but I think those would be the minority.  So while the concept is quite innovative, I think I would find it underwhelming more often than not. 
   



Chameleon by mandioca15
Quote
$5 - Action - Command
Play the last-played Action card this turn, leaving it there; if you can't, +1 Card, +1 Action, +$1.
Chameleon is perhaps what an Action card version of Scepter would look like.  Unlike Scepter, it only allows you to replay the last-played Action card.  It has an advantage over other Throne Room variants insofar as it can always function as a Peddler and so you will never draw it dead.  On the other hand, whereas you could play Throne Room on another Throne Room to play two Action cards twice, you can't do so if you replay a Chameleon with another Chameleon (at least as I interpret the wording of the card).  Unlike Throne Room, it also cannot turn cantrips into villages.  Of course, there is no unwritten rule that a Throne Room-variant needs to be able to do either of these things, but as a matter of personal preference I enjoy the explosiveness that you get with other Throne Room variants, and I feel like Chameleon, while still a fine card, is a bit tame in this respect. 



Dragons by X-tra *Short-List*
Quote
White Dragon
$5 - Action - Attack - Dragon
Reveal your hand; discard the Curses.  Draw until you have 5 cards in hand, then you may trash a card from your hand.

Each other player gains a Curse, or discards down to 3 cards in hand if they can't.

Orange Dragon
$5 - Action - Attack - Duration - Dragon
At the start of your next turn, gain a Gold onto your deck.

Each other player gains a Curse, or discards down to 3 cards in hand if they can't.

Blue Dragon
$5 - Action - Attack - Reaction - Dragon
Each other player gains a Curse, or discards down to 3 cards in hand if they can't.
-
When another player plays an Attack card, you may first set this aside from your hand to gain 2 cards costing up to $5. (This stays set aside.)

Green Dragon
$5 - Action - Attack - Victory - Dragon
Each other player gains a Curse, or discards down to 3 cards in hand if they can't.
-
Worth 1VP per non-Victory Dragon you have.
Dragons are a mixed pile reminiscent of Knights (and in games with both, Knights can slay Dragons!).  It's a neat idea to have distinct Dragon colours with corresponding card types.  I agree with others that it would have been a nice addition to see a Yellow Dragon and a Black Dragon as well. 

Dragons are Cursers that become hand-size attacks once the Curse pile runs out.  Nonetheless, I still find some of the Dragons rather weak relative to other $5-cost Attack cards.

Let's take Green Dragon, for example.  Other than the Attack, it is also worth VP at the end of the game.  However, it doesn't score itself, so you need to gain additional non-Green Dragons.  It's not a really strong alt-VP strategy; while you could technically score 9VP with a Green Dragon, that would require you to purchase nine $5 cost Dragons.  If you bought the same number of Duchies, you would score 27VP.  There is some synergy between Green Dragon and Blue Dragon, since you could use the latter to gain two additional Dragons.  However, given that this is a mixed pile, it is not a guarantee that you will be able to gain both (or even that you wouldn't be better off gaining Duchies instead of other Dragons with Blue Dragon). 

I much prefer the revised wording of Blue Dragon, although I think it would be simpler to trash it as part of the Reaction to avoid any confusion.  I understand the rationale for wanting it to score for Green Dragon, but I think it would be better to buff Green Dragon (e.g. 2VP per non-Victory Dragon), and since Blue Dragon can still gain two additional Dragons, you can still net additional points. (I suppose if Exiling were an option, that would be another alternative)

White Dragon becomes more relevant if your opponents gain and play Dragons as it lets you discard Curses from your hand and draw to 5.  Orange Dragon on the other hand doesn't seem to have any obvious interactions or synergies with the other Dragons.  There's nothing wrong with the gold-gaining per se (except maybe it could be gained to hand instead of onto your deck), but I would have liked to see a different bonus that would make the four Dragons more cohesive.
   



Liegeman/Treaty Bound by Xen3k *Short-List*
Quote
Liegeman / Treaty Bound
$4 - Action
+2 Actions
+$1
If you don't have Treaty Bound, you may Exile a card from your hand for +2 Cards.
-
Setup: Each player takes Treaty Bound.

Treaty Bound
State
When a player gains a Province, return this and trash up to 5 cards from your hand.  +1 Card for each card trashed this way.
Liegeman is an interesting card that starts of as a weak village; however, as soon as a player buys the first Province, all players return the Treaty Bound state and Liegemen then turn into very strong cards that give you +2 Actions, +$1, and allow you to Exile a card from your hand for +2 Cards.  With Treaty Bound, when the first Province is gained, all players can trash up cards from their hand and draw as many.  Deciding when to start greening is one of the key decisions in a game of Dominion, and I think this adds another dimension to that.  On the one hand, if you have Liegemen in your deck, you are incentivized to buy a Province so that you upgrade their abilities.  On the other, buying the first Province will likely mean that your opponents will benefit from Treaty Bound's trashing (and the earlier you Province, the more likely your opponents are to still have junk in their hand to trash).  Trashing cards with Treaty Bound seems a little anti-synergistic with Liegeman's ability to Exile then draw, but perhaps that was the intent.

Liegeman reminds me of cards like City and Paddock, except that the trigger for upgrading its abilities is different.  It's a neat idea, and it would be interesting to see this type of design more often.  This is one of those cards that is hard to assess without playtesting, because I feel like the meta becomes very important.  Will players rush the Liegeman pile in anticipation of someone buying the first Province?  Will players delay buying their first Province if they are behind on the Liegeman split?  Or will they forgo Liegeman entirely in favor of stronger cards early in the game, and only buy them once Treaty Bound is returned?




Cask of Amontillado by emtzalex
Quote
$4 - Treasure
$2
+1 Buy
-
When you gain this, you may trash a non-Duration, non-Reaction Action card you have in play.
Cask of Amontillado is a Kingdom Treasure that is worth $2 and gives +1 Buy and is also a weak trasher when gained.  Outside of some specific situations (e.g. trashing Catacombs or Hunting Grounds), you don't gain anything extra from trashing cards in play.  It might be useful for clearing away Ruins or Action cards that are no longer useful in your deck, but if you had the option, you would usually prefer to remodel them.

For a Promo card, I think it would have been more exciting if there was some additional benefit when you trashed the card (or perhaps allow it to trash when played rather then when gained).

By the way, the mockup of the card should say "Treasure" instead of "Action" :)



Uncork / Bottle Imp by Commodore Chuckles *Short-List*
Quote
Uncork
$0 - Event
+1 Buy
Take the Bottle Imp.

Bottle Imp
Artifact
When drawing your hand, gain a card to it costing up to $5.  If you have this at the end of the game, -13VP.
I like the thematic nature of this set of cards, and the concept is intriguing.

Games with Uncork / Bottle Imp will feel very different from regular games of Dominion.  For one, I imagine the games will be much faster and likely to end on pile-outs.  It would also alter how games open rather dramatically; you could gain a $5-cost card with Bottle Imp at the end of Turn 1 and play it on Turn 2.  The benefit that you get from Bottle Imp is such that you simply cannot skip buying Uncork.  The more interesting decision is when you stop buying Uncork, so that you are not the one stuck with the VP penalty at the end of the game.   

I'm not sure how fun this push-your-luck game of Hot Potato would be compared to a "regular" game of Dominion, but I'm very curious to try it.  It's quite difficult to balance a card like this, especially since Bottle Imp is functionally equivalent to playing Artisan each turn without having to topdeck a card.  The penalty would have to be severe enough to counterbalance that, but without creating so much swinginess that the fate of the game always rests on a single decision (i.e. when a player stops buying Uncork).  I suppose that even in games of regular Dominion, you could try to pinpoint a single decision that probably led you to win or lose the game, but it's not always obvious. 



Judging this round was very difficult as always, but especially so given some very off-the-wall and creative submissions!  Anyway, I've tried to give it my best shot, with the usual caveat that this is quite subjective and based on initial impressions rather than any playtesting.


RUNNERS-UP: Treasure Cove by segura, and Scry / Warned by spineflu

WINNER: Dragons by X-tra


Congratulations, X-tra!
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: mandioca15 on January 31, 2021, 07:53:36 am
My entry doesn't appear in the judgement.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: LibraryAdventurer on January 31, 2021, 08:04:44 am
I printed Theater and have played with it a few times at home. I like it, but my parents don't like playing the card and having to look at a different card to remember what it does.

I think Treasure Cove might be better priced if it excluded itself in the bottom part like this: "This costs $1 per differently named Treasure and Victory card in the Supply other than this."
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Xen3k on January 31, 2021, 09:36:57 am
Congrats to X-tra! I, unfortunately, do not see my entry in the judgement section as well. It can be found HERE (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20521.msg861176#msg861176).
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: Timinou on January 31, 2021, 12:47:39 pm
My entry doesn't appear in the judgement.

Congrats to X-tra! I, unfortunately, do not see my entry in the judgement section as well. It can be found HERE (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20521.msg861176#msg861176).

Oh no!  I'm so, so sorry!  I did see both your submissions during the week, and I'm not sure how I missed them yesterday!  That's a big goof on my part (Note to self: when judging contests, post a list of submissions before judging).

I've updated my post with my feedback on your submissions.  Both are very interesting submissions (which makes me feel even worse about forgetting about them in the first place!).
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: X-tra on January 31, 2021, 01:42:16 pm
Hey thanks for the win! I actually did playtest the mix pile of Dragons, and it was pretty neat overall. Their power level, I believe, was just about something I was alright with.
I also did create both a Treasure and a Night Dragon, just for the heck of it! They looked like this:

(https://i.postimg.cc/t4n11LRB/Gold-Dragon-v1.png) (https://i.postimg.cc/59PTyrRY/Dark-Dragon-v1-1.png)

But in the end, I decided against it, since I wanted the Dragon pile to be more streamlined. Gold Dragon seemed strong to me when paired against Idol. It also didn’t do much. Night Dragon had a cool card type synergy with the rest of the Dragons, but eh. Again, wanting to keep it as simple as it can be amongst a concept that’s already a little more complicated than your traditional Dominion Supply pile.



So anyway. Erm. What to do next here? If there’s even a next? Should we keep going, or...? I mean, we could try to do expansion fusions; or contest about forcing certain criteria amongst an expansion (ex: Make a Treasure Kingdom card for Base Dominion (since there are none in this set)). Just ideas. I’m not too committed to any of them. If people wish for things to keep going here, then I’ll just put forth something. Hopefully, something people like and are alright with. :)
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: grrgrrgrr on January 31, 2021, 01:56:38 pm
Personally, I'd discontinue this series and start a brand new series (in a different topic) in its stead. Not sure what, though.
Title: Re: Set Expansion Contest
Post by: silverspawn on January 31, 2021, 05:47:42 pm
this? (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20616.0)