Dominion Strategy Forum

Miscellaneous => Forum Games => Mafia Game Threads => Topic started by: Swowl on September 16, 2020, 12:53:32 am

Title: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Game Over! Skum Wins!
Post by: Swowl on September 16, 2020, 12:53:32 am

M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia!

This is a Semi-Open Set Up Normal Game for 13 players invented by Archtype.
You will find all the given game information in the following post.

MOD: Swowl


Sign Up List:
1. Dylan - Killed Night 2; Town Adorable Mutt
2. WCD
3. EFHW - Killed Night 3; Town German Shepard
4. ADK - Lynched Day 4; Town Adorable Mutt
5. Galz
6. Joseph - Lynched Day 1; Town Adorable Mutt
7. faust
8. MiX - Killed Night 1; Town Rottweiler
9. chairs
10. Eevee - Lynched Day 3; Mafia Calico Cat
11. Space
12. Robz
13. Glooble - Lynched Day 2; Town Adorable Mutt

Tags: Mail-Mi

Game Tracker:
Day 1 - http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20512.msg854086#msg854086
Day 2 - http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20512.msg854983#msg854983
Day 3 - http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20512.msg855537#msg855537
Day 4 - http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20512.msg855811#msg855811

The Rules:

The Golden Rule:
This is a game. Everyone who signs up to play must be considerate of each other, never get personal, and focus on having fun. Once the game starts, having signed up is a commitment: inactivity is just as inconsiderate as rude comments.

The Standard Rules:
1. No communication between players outside of the game thread or shared QTs at any time. This includes passing references, jokes, or cases in other games or threads, whether in context or not.
2. If the game thread is locked, do not post. If you are unsure if something is locked, ask the mod by PM.
3. Direct or verbatim quoting of mod-provided information (including QT opening and closing times) is strictly forbidden. Paraphrasing is okay.
4. Actions with instructions that do not specify a game state will be resolved in the order they are received.
5. All night actions must be submitted within 36 hours of day ending.
6. Players must post once every 24 hours.
7. Do not edit or delete posts, ever. If you need to clarify or correct something, post again.
8. Invisible text, font size less than 10, and spoiler tags are not allowed.
9. Cryptography is not allowed.
10. The time between an exile being reached and a flip being provided is called twilight. All players may continue posting during this time, including the exiled player.
11. Dead players may not post in thread or QT, except their Role QT. An exiled player is not "dead" until a flip has been provided.
12. Personal multimedia, such as video or audio recordings, are not allowed in the game thread.

The Voting Rules:
1. Votes should be in this format: Vote: Playername. Unambigiuous nicknames are acceptable, or any string that uniquely identifies a user. Note that the point of voting is, in fact, unambiguity, and attempting to make it unclear to other players (or, of course, mods) which user you are voting for is very ill-advised.
2. Unvotes should be in this format: unvote or Unvote: Playername.
3. Unvotes are not required if changing your vote from one player to another.
4. You may vote: no exile.
5. Exiles occur when a simple majority (rounded up) of living players is reached. Once reached, an exile cannot be undone.
6. If a majority lynch is not reached by the Day's deadline, no lynch occurs.

The Rest:
1. Bold, Brown text are reserved for the MODs. Players may not use it.
2. If you have an issue or problem with the game, please PM the Mod. Do not post complaints in the game thread.
3. Mods make mistakes - please point them out gently. If they can be corrected, they will. If irreversible, they will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
4. If a mod error disadvantages one faction greatly, the game may be called off.
5. Ask all questions and make all requests directly to the Mod via PM. Questions deemed as "universal" (defined as questions for which the answers should be available to all players) will be requested to be re-posted in the Game Thread and answered there.
6. Players may request prods on other players if they have not posted in 24 hours. Players are subject to replacement or modkill after one prod.
7. All rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity, as determined by the mod.
8. Each player will receive their own QT, regardless of role. Don't quote from it.
9. If the game goes on for 3 days and 3 nights without a lynch or nightkill, town wins.

Deadlines:
1. Days will last seven IRL days.
2. Nights will last between 36 and 48 hours.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Let's get a game going!!!!
Post by: Swowl on September 16, 2020, 12:54:23 am
This game will be Cats and Dogs themed. I have 2 dogs and 2 cats, so no offense to the cat people on the forum :P
This is an Invented Semi-Open setup by Archtype, with credits to faust, Yuma, and Ashes.

The base setup is as follows:

3 Mafia Cats:
Calico Cat (Mafia Goon)
Siamese Cat (Mafia Goon)
Maine Coon (Godfatherer)

10 Town Dogs:
1 Innocent Child (Golden Retriever)
1 3-shot Cop (German Shepard)
8 Vanilla Townies (Adorable Mutt)

Pregame, I will make 0-5 Modifications to the above setup. Each Modification has a 50% chance of being present. They will alter the setup by adding more power roles to both the Town and the Mafia.


Modification 1:

Calico Cat -> 2-shot Roleblocker
Adorable Mutt (VT) -> Doctor
(dalmatian)

Modification 2:

Calico Cat -> Encryptor
Adorable Mutt (VT) -> Roleblocker
(Rottweiler)

Modification 3:
Siamese Cat -> Flavor Cop
Adorable Mutt (VT) -> 1-shot Commuter (yorkie)

Modification 4:

Siamese Cat -> 2-shot Rolestopper

Adorable Mutt (VT) -> Tracker (beagle)

Modification 5:

Maine Coon -> 1-shot Strongman+Godfatherer
Adorable Mutt (VT) -> 1-shot Bulletproof (pitbull)

There is also one very important additional rule: When a player dies, only their Flavor Name will be revealed. Examples would be Pitbull, Golden Retriever, Siamese Cat, etc. So when any random Mafia Player dies, you don't know if he was a plain Mafia Goon, or much more powerful.


Role PMs:


TOWN

Golden Retriever
Quote
Welcome, [Player Name], to Cats and Dogs Mafia! You are Golden Retriever the Town-Aligned Innocent Child. You win all the Evil Cats have been eliminated.
At the start of D1 you will be mod-confirmed as Golden Retriever.

German Shepard
Quote
Welcome, [Player Name], to Cats and Dogs Mafia! You are German Shepard, the Town-Aligned 3-shot Cop. You win all the Evil Cats have been eliminated.
Each night you may spend one of your "shots" to target one player. You will be told their alignment in the form of Town or Mafia.

Rottweiler
Quote
Welcome, [Player Name], to Cats and Dogs Mafia! You are Rottweiler the Town-Aligned Roleblocker. You win all the Evil Cats have been eliminated.
Each night you may target one player. Any Active powers they use that night will fail.

Dalmatian
Quote
Welcome, [Player Name], to Cats and Dogs Mafia! You are Dalmatian the Town-Aligned Doctor. You win all the Evil Cats have been eliminated.
Each night you may target one player. That player will be protected from 1 killing action.


Yorkie
Quote
Welcome, [Player Name], to Cats and Dogs Mafia! You are Yorkie the Town-Aligned 1-Shot Commuter. You win all the Evil Cats have been eliminated.
Once in the game, at night, you may activate your ability. If you do, all actions that target you will fail.

Beagle
Quote
Welcome, [Player Name], to Cats and Dogs Mafia! You are Beagle the Town-Aligned Tracker. You win all the Evil Cats have been eliminated.
Each night you may target one player. You will be told the names of all the players they targeted that night. If they targeted no one or your action failed, you will receive "No Result".

Great Dane
Quote
Welcome, [Player Name], to Cats and Dogs Mafia! You are Great Dane the Town-Aligned 1-Shot Bulletproof. You win all the Evil Cats have been eliminated.
You have a passive ability. The first time at night you would die, you will instead automatically use you ability to live.


Adorable Mutt (VT):

Quote
Welcome, [Player Name], to Cats and Dogs Mafia! You are an Adorable Mutt the Town-Aligned Vanilla Townie. You win when all the Evil Cats have been eliminated.
Your only power is your vote... and your cute af face.


MAFIA:


Calico Cat

Quote
Welcome, [Player Name], to Cats and Dogs Mafia! You are Calico Cat the Mafia-Aligned Goon. You win when the Evil Cats are the majority alignment or nothing can prevent it. Your Mafia QT is located here: [Evil Cats].

You have no powers what-so-ever, but you can still help your Cats!. Go team! MEOW!
OR
Quote
Welcome, [Player Name], to Cats and Dogs Mafia! You are Calico Cat the Mafia-Aligned 2-shot Roleblocker. You win when the Evil Cats are the majority alignment or nothing can prevent it. Your Mafia QT is located here: [cats].
In addition to the factional kill, each night you may spend a "shot" to target one player. Any actions that player uses will fail.
OR
Quote
Welcome, [Player Name], to Cats and Dogs Mafia! You are Calico Cat the Mafia-Aligned Encryptor. You win when the Evil Cats are the majority alignment or nothing can prevent it. Your Mafia QT is located here: [cats].
While you're alive, your Mafia QT will be unlocked for both the Day and the Night.
OR
Quote
Welcome, [Player Name], to Cats and Dogs Mafia! You are Calico Cat the Mafia-Aligned Encrypting 2-shot Roleblocker. You win when The Evil Cats are the majority alignment or nothing can prevent it. Your Mafia QT is located here: [cats].
In addition to the factional kill, each night you may spend a "shot" to target one player. Any actions your target uses will fail.
While you're alive, your Mafia QT will be unlocked for both the Day and the Night.



Siamese Cat

Quote
Welcome, [Player Name], to Cats and Dogs Mafia! You are Kamek the Mafia-Aligned Goon. You win when the Evil Cats are the majority alignment or nothing can prevent it. Your Mafia QT is located here: [cats].
You have no powers what-so-ever, but you can still help your Cats! MEOW!
OR
Quote
Welcome, [Player Name], to Cats and Dogs Mafia! You are Siamese Cat the Mafia-Aligned 2-shot Rolestopper. You win when The Evil Cats are the majority alignment or nothing can prevent it. Your Mafia QT is located here: [cats].
In addition to the factional kill, twice night you may spend a "shot" to target one player. Any other actions (besides kills) that affect your target will instead fail.
OR
Quote
Welcome, [Player Name], to Cats and Dogs Mafia! You are Siamese Cat the Mafia-Aligned Flavor Cop. You win when the Evil Cats are the majority alignment or nothing can prevent it. Your Mafia QT is located here: [cats].
In addition to the factional kill, each night you may target one player. You will be told your target's Flavor Name.
OR
Quote
Welcome, [Player Name], to Cats and Dogs Mafia! You are Siamese Cat the Mafia-Aligned Flavor Copping 2-shot Rolestopper. You win when the Evil Cats are the majority alignment or nothing can prevent it. Your Mafia QT is located here: [cats].
In addition to the factional kill, each night you may target one player. You will be told your target's Flavor Name. Additionally, twice at night, you may spend a "shot" to have any other actions (besides kills) that affect your target  instead fail.


Maine Coon

Quote
Welcome, [Player Name], to Cats and Dogs Mafia! You are Maine Coon the Mafia-Aligned Godfatherer. You win when The Evil Cats are the majority alignment or nothing can prevent it. Your Mafia QT is located here: [cats].
In addition to completing the factional kill, each night you may target one player (including yourself). Your target will turn up as "Town" to any investigation results.
OR
Quote
Welcome, [Player Name], to Cats and Dogs Mafia! You are Bowser the Mafia-Aligned 1-shot Strongman Godfatherer. You win the Evil Cats are the majority alignment or nothing can prevent it. Your Mafia QT is located here: [cats].
In addition to the factional kill, each night you may target one player (including yourself). Your target will turn up as "Town" to Investigation roles.
Once in the game, when you complete the factional kill, you may opt to make it a 'Strongman' kill. If you do, your kill will break through one layer of Doctor/Bulletproof protections or Roleblocking.

If for some reason a 'loop' occurs, here's the order in which I'll resolve actions:

Natural Action Resolution:

Commuting
Rolestopping
Town!Roleblocking
Scum!Roleblocking
Protecting
Killing
Investigating
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Let's get a game going!!!!
Post by: Swowl on September 16, 2020, 01:02:06 am
*Mod Note - it is late. there are no games running. I wanted to get this into sign ups. I will fix technical typos tomorrow.

This is Arches game set up from Mario Mafia....

Until corrected, please ignore flavor mistakes.
Things like "toadie" obviously will be changed to "townie".
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Let's get a game going!!!!
Post by: Dylan32 on September 16, 2020, 01:13:47 am
/in
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Let's get a game going!!!!
Post by: Isis on September 16, 2020, 02:14:33 am
the combo between mod3 and mod5 is very synergistic for the mafias
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Let's get a game going!!!!
Post by: Swowl on September 16, 2020, 02:21:36 am
the combo between mod3 and mod5 is very synergistic for the mafias

I mean yes. But also there are a lot of potential unbalanced roles both ways, which kind of "balances it".
Albeit that exact situation would be a hard core pro for skum... but its a dice game so ...

Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Let's get a game going!!!!
Post by: Swowl on September 16, 2020, 02:22:09 am
/in

my man!
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Let's get a game going!!!!
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 16, 2020, 09:00:34 am
(https://media.giphy.com/media/ZgnNyvIz813P2/giphy.gif)

/in
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Let's get a game going!!!!
Post by: EFHW on September 16, 2020, 09:31:13 am
/in
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Let's get a game going!!!!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 16, 2020, 10:27:16 am
/in

I remember there being a tweaked version of this setup that me and Arch worked on later, you might want to check that out
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Let's get a game going!!!!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 16, 2020, 10:41:21 am
Also "calico" isn't a breed :P
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Let's get a game going!!!!
Post by: jotheonah on September 16, 2020, 09:06:02 pm
/in
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Let's get a game going!!!!
Post by: Galzria on September 16, 2020, 10:37:33 pm
🐱
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Let's get a game going!!!!
Post by: Joseph2302 on September 17, 2020, 08:47:16 am
/in
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Let's get a game going!!!!
Post by: faust on September 17, 2020, 08:53:22 am
/in
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Let's get a game going!!!!
Post by: MiX on September 17, 2020, 09:02:17 am
/in
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - 5 SPOTS LEFT!!!
Post by: Swowl on September 19, 2020, 10:59:48 pm
Use my cats and dogs magic to summon...

Cayvie
Awaclus
Glooble
chairs
Rhand
Eddie
Jimmm
Robz
MCMC
and/or anyone I missed lol

I'm not even gonna play and I am going crazy ya'll! Let's do this!
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - 5 SPOTS LEFT!!!
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 20, 2020, 09:31:13 am
By your cats and dogs magic, I hope you mean sending them all a pleading message. Thatís how meddling is done.

Also, Shraeye, LaLight, and Space would be awesome.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - 5 SPOTS LEFT!!!
Post by: Swowl on September 20, 2020, 03:24:02 pm
By your cats and dogs magic, I hope you mean sending them all a pleading message. Thatís how meddling is done.

Also, Shraeye, LaLight, and Space would be awesome.

good adds!

And yes!
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - 5 SPOTS LEFT!!!
Post by: chairs on September 20, 2020, 08:03:18 pm
In
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - 5 SPOTS LEFT!!!
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 21, 2020, 09:15:17 am
By your cats and dogs magic, I hope you mean sending them all a pleading message. Thatís how meddling is done.

Also, Shraeye, LaLight, and Space would be awesome.

good adds!

And yes!

❤️
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - 4 SPOTS LEFT!!!
Post by: Eevee on September 21, 2020, 05:31:46 pm
in, setup looks great!
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - 3 SPOTS LEFT!!!
Post by: Dylan32 on September 21, 2020, 06:50:18 pm
A wild Eevee appears!
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - 3 SPOTS LEFT!!!
Post by: SpaceAnemone on September 22, 2020, 09:24:08 am
I'm having a really hard time focusing on work right now and just staying on top of the little things, so I'm not sure adding a Mafia game on the side would be very smart.

But then I saw that Eevee joined, so /in.

Also, Didds, thanks for thinking of me <3
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - 3 SPOTS LEFT!!!
Post by: Robz888 on September 22, 2020, 12:39:38 pm
/in
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Room for one more crazy animal!!!!
Post by: Glooble on September 22, 2020, 01:42:12 pm
Okay, I will /in.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Room for one more crazy animal!!!!
Post by: Swowl on September 22, 2020, 02:44:22 pm
woot.

will get PMs out today.

check your inboxes in a bit to confirm.

thread locked except for tags.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Game Full! PMs out Soon!
Post by: Swowl on September 22, 2020, 05:15:45 pm
ok

1. Clarifications made to the set up post. No changes, just for ease of understanding.

2. Typos have now been fixed from the OP's

3. PMs are going out now. Please confirm when you can.


Game will start once I have all the confirmations!
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Game Full! PMs out Soon!
Post by: Swowl on September 23, 2020, 04:08:03 pm
Almost all players have confirmed. Enough to start the game soon at least.

Day 1 will commence at 8pm FT later today.

GL Everyone!!!!!
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Game Full! PMs out Soon!
Post by: Swowl on September 23, 2020, 09:55:59 pm
They say it is a dog eat dog world out there... but they don't know... not really. Cats eating Dogs, Dogs eating Cats... damn man... Dogs eating Dogs!?!?!
What has happened to this world? Everything is upside down. Everything is backwards.
Well I suppose when it rains it pours... and right now... it is raining...

CATS AND DOGS!!!!!! ... mafia
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Game Full! PMs out Soon!
Post by: Swowl on September 23, 2020, 09:56:27 pm
Vote Count 1.0:

Not Voting (3): Dylan, WCD, EFHW, ADK, Galz, Joseph, faust, MiX, chairs, Eevee, Space, Robz, Glooble

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 starts now and ends on September 30th at 10pm Forum Time.


THREAD UNLOCKED!

Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Swowl on September 23, 2020, 10:11:54 pm
One clarification I would like to make in case there is any confusion - VTs in this game CANNOT receive MULTIPLE roles from modifications being turned on.

It was poorly worded in the set up. 
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Galzria on September 23, 2020, 10:23:42 pm
First.

MiX, why should I believe that you're a Dog this game, and not a Cat?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 23, 2020, 10:48:10 pm
Hi hi hi hi!!

Iíve missed you all so much!  Iím going to bed now But I wanted to say hi!

Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: EFHW on September 23, 2020, 11:02:13 pm
Hi and also my bedtime 🌙.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 23, 2020, 11:08:32 pm
Who is the IC?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Swowl on September 23, 2020, 11:50:52 pm
Thank you ADK... my cats and dogs obviously messed up the first post....


Robz88 is the Innocent Child and  confirmed Town-Aligned
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: MiX on September 24, 2020, 04:46:09 am
First.

MiX, why should I believe that you're a Dog this game, and not a Cat?

Because I am, and that'll be increasingly more clear the more we talk.

Also, your MiX!radar is pretty good, just trust it more often :P

Hi hi hi hi!!

Iíve missed you all so much!  Iím going to bed now But I wanted to say hi!

Yesssssssssss!!!!!

Who is the IC?

I thought you were going to be the IC again when you asked this...
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: MiX on September 24, 2020, 04:46:45 am
Hi and also my bedtime 🌙.

Hidden emoji?!?!?!?!

Vote: EFHW
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Game Full! PMs out Soon!
Post by: faust on September 24, 2020, 05:43:49 am
Not Voting (3): Dylan, WCD, EFHW, ADK, Galz, Joseph, faust, MiX, chairs, Eevee, Space, Robz, Glooble[/color]
Sound like dogs aren't allowed to vote.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: faust on September 24, 2020, 05:51:16 am
Robz88 is the Innocent Child and  confirmed Town-Aligned [/b]
Robz's name becomes 500% more problematic by dropping that last 8.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 24, 2020, 07:37:28 am
mix feeling the need to comment on all four posts even though there wasn't anything meaningful to say about them is ever-so-mildly scummy, so

vote: mix
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Game Full! PMs out Soon!
Post by: SpaceAnemone on September 24, 2020, 07:49:46 am
Not Voting (3): Dylan, WCD, EFHW, ADK, Galz, Joseph, faust, MiX, chairs, Eevee, Space, Robz, Glooble[/color]
Sound like dogs aren't allowed to vote.

Or Swowl is just representing everything mod 10, perhaps.

If dogs aren't allowed to vote, I move for taking us all off the voting register so we can see which fat cats are left and then exiling them.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Game Full! PMs out Soon!
Post by: MiX on September 24, 2020, 07:56:12 am
Not Voting (3): Dylan, WCD, EFHW, ADK, Galz, Joseph, faust, MiX, chairs, Eevee, Space, Robz, Glooble[/color]
Sound like dogs aren't allowed to vote.

Or Swowl is just representing everything mod 10, perhaps.

If dogs aren't allowed to vote, I move for taking us all off the voting register so we can see which fat cats are left and then exiling them.

But then we can't exile them, since we can't vote.

mix feeling the need to comment on all four posts even though there wasn't anything meaningful to say about them is ever-so-mildly scummy, so

vote: mix

I agree with this assessment.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Game Full! PMs out Soon!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 24, 2020, 08:06:11 am
mix feeling the need to comment on all four posts even though there wasn't anything meaningful to say about them is ever-so-mildly scummy, so

vote: mix

I agree with this assessment.

That's a very MiXian response
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Game Full! PMs out Soon!
Post by: MiX on September 24, 2020, 08:12:51 am
mix feeling the need to comment on all four posts even though there wasn't anything meaningful to say about them is ever-so-mildly scummy, so

vote: mix

I agree with this assessment.

That's a very MiXian response

Which is why I said it, and not someone else.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 24, 2020, 10:05:46 am
The fact that anything can be Mixian is delightful, in and of itself.

Also, I love it that Robs is a Golden Retriever!

Iím having some dissonance with thinking about dogs as the good guys. IRL, I am fully a cat person. But make no mistake, the game is correctly themed. We live only because they allow it and they will could kill us in our sleep. Every morning is a blessing. Which they would argue is a quotidian lesson in gratitude.

Space! Iím glad you could play!

Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Eevee on September 24, 2020, 10:07:18 am
Thank you ADK... my cats and dogs obviously messed up the first post....


Robz88 is the Innocent Child and  confirmed Town-Aligned


Excellent! A Robz you can trust is the best kind.

Also hi all, it's been a while. :)
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Eevee on September 24, 2020, 10:10:32 am
I'm allergic to cats, isn't that a town tell if any?

Mix seems to be trying hard, which clearly means he woke up as Mix again!
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: faust on September 24, 2020, 10:19:56 am
Mix seems to be trying hard, which clearly means he woke up as Mix again!
What does he seem to be trying hard?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: faust on September 24, 2020, 10:22:28 am
Iím having some dissonance with thinking about dogs as the good guys. IRL, I am fully a cat person. But make no mistake, the game is correctly themed. We live only because they allow it and they will could kill us in our sleep. Every morning is a blessing. Which they would argue is a quotidian lesson in gratitude.
I could not agree more. This must have been the first game where I hoped to be scum purely for flavor reasons.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: SpaceAnemone on September 24, 2020, 10:42:19 am
IRL, I am fully a cat person. But make no mistake, the game is correctly themed.

Yup... they are basically tiny fluffy murders. At least dogs aren't obligate carnivores! Though I do remember you had such withdrawal from your small overlords that we ended up in a cat cafe in Bratislava :-) That may have been the best lemonade of my whole 2019 :-P

Space! Iím glad you could play!

Me too :-) It's great to see y'all again!
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: SpaceAnemone on September 24, 2020, 10:45:03 am
Thank you ADK... my cats and dogs obviously messed up the first post....


Robz88 is the Innocent Child and  confirmed Town-Aligned


Excellent! A Robz you can trust is the best kind.

Also hi all, it's been a while. :)

Yes, Robz being IC is great. How well do you feel he usually reads you? Also, are you still as happy and friendly as last time we crossed paths? :-)
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: chairs on September 24, 2020, 10:58:11 am
Hey, heads up my computer crashed and I'm still fixing that (I mean "new OS" crashed, not "reboot" crashed). I literally haven't looked at my QT yet but I thought I'd note that I will be able to play.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: chairs on September 24, 2020, 11:03:15 am
I know I'm echoing a theme here but IC Robz is nice.

vote: Swowl for trying to deny dogs their rights as canines.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 24, 2020, 11:37:42 am
So mix, chairs, who's the third scum?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 24, 2020, 11:39:55 am
So mix, chairs, who's the third scum?

Prolly Dylan!
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: MiX on September 24, 2020, 12:24:08 pm
So mix, chairs, who's the third scum?

Prolly Dylan!

When in doubt, vote joth.

Wait where is he?

I'm allergic to cats, isn't that a town tell if any?

Mix seems to be trying hard, which clearly means he woke up as Mix again!

Hell yeah! Last town game was awful, I need a revival.

Mix seems to be trying hard, which clearly means he woke up as Mix again!
What does he seem to be trying hard?

Read my posts.

Hey, heads up my computer crashed and I'm still fixing that (I mean "new OS" crashed, not "reboot" crashed). I literally haven't looked at my QT yet but I thought I'd note that I will be able to play.

XaL.

Vote: EFHW, still the scummiest player by a mile.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Glooble on September 24, 2020, 01:22:58 pm
Hello. I am also quite allergic to cats, which makes me an additional IC, as I am not sneezing of breaking out in hives.

Also, I can't be on very much on Thursdays, as that is the only day I do not work from home, so I'm not really at my computer ever except at lunch.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 24, 2020, 01:36:31 pm
Everyone's apparently allergic to voting in addition to cats
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: MiX on September 24, 2020, 01:38:17 pm
Everyone's apparently allergic to voting in addition to cats

Only cats can vote, didn't you hear? So we're confirmed scum O.o
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: jotheonah on September 24, 2020, 01:50:12 pm
I /inned for this but I never got a PM... and I appear to be not on the list. So I guess I'm not playing? :(
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: EFHW on September 24, 2020, 02:56:45 pm
Hi and also my bedtime 🌙.

Hidden emoji?!?!?!?!

Vote: EFHW

Yeah, I don't know. I typed bedtime and my phone offered me this emoji. It seemed appropriate, both for bed and for being a dog. Dogs howl at the moon, right? Of course, it would also have been appropriate as a cat, since they are nocturnal, but let's not go there.

P.S. I am also allergic to cats, which is very sad because I like having them as pets.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: EFHW on September 24, 2020, 02:57:03 pm
I /inned for this but I never got a PM... and I appear to be not on the list. So I guess I'm not playing? :(

That IS sad!
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Swowl on September 24, 2020, 04:00:37 pm
I /inned for this but I never got a PM... and I appear to be not on the list. So I guess I'm not playing? :(


Joth - I am so sorry. An absolute just MOD fail on that one. I owe you a beer man - Sorry!!!
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: MiX on September 24, 2020, 04:03:52 pm
I mean, it is Swowl, I'd be surprised if there wasn't a mod fail.

I'm still slightly salty that a tiny mod mistake made me throw my second SK game in hunger games. Only slightly. That and I could've prevented it had I said anything and I still haven't forgiven myself.


Joth's not a dog, so he's scum. Right? Does that hold true?

Vote: joth
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Swowl on September 24, 2020, 04:14:41 pm
Vote Count 1.1:

EFHW (1): MiX
MiX (1): ADK

Not Voting (11): Robz888, Dylan, WCD, EFHW, Galz, Joseph, faust, chairs, Eevee, Space, Glooble

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 ends on September 30th at 10pm Forum Time.

**Apologies, for the Mod error(s) thus far. Hopefully it will be purrfect from here on out**
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Robz888 on September 24, 2020, 05:14:51 pm
Bet Galz tries to lynch me anyway!
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Robz888 on September 24, 2020, 05:15:34 pm
"One one hand, Robz is modconfirmed IC. But on the other hand, it is Robz..."

I'm waiting.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Glooble on September 24, 2020, 05:42:13 pm
I thought I'd missed RVS but apparently there hasn't been any RVS yet?

Neat!

vote: chairs
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Galzria on September 24, 2020, 06:09:26 pm
vote: Robz888 - Mod has already made plenty of other mistakes. This is clearly just another one.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 24, 2020, 06:19:32 pm
I thought I'd missed RVS but apparently there hasn't been any RVS yet?

Neat!

vote: chairs

Yes we've apparently entered some kind of nightmare dimension where we need a pre-RVS chitchat phase before we get into RVS proper
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: MiX on September 24, 2020, 07:11:52 pm
I thought I'd missed RVS but apparently there hasn't been any RVS yet?

Neat!

vote: chairs

Yes we've apparently entered some kind of nightmare dimension where we need a pre-RVS chitchat phase before we get into RVS proper

I presume the people that would otherwise do RVS are scum. But I don't know who those are...
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: faust on September 25, 2020, 03:20:39 am
Mix seems to be trying hard, which clearly means he woke up as Mix again!
What does he seem to be trying hard?

Read my posts.
You're trying hard to read your own posts? Seems like that shouldn't be that challenging.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Eevee on September 25, 2020, 04:01:54 am
Thank you ADK... my cats and dogs obviously messed up the first post....


Robz88 is the Innocent Child and  confirmed Town-Aligned


Excellent! A Robz you can trust is the best kind.

Also hi all, it's been a while. :)

Yes, Robz being IC is great. How well do you feel he usually reads you? Also, are you still as happy and friendly as last time we crossed paths? :-)
As fluffy as ever!

I feel Robz reads me well, he'd have been my number one pick for the IC role from the player list.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: MiX on September 25, 2020, 04:21:44 am
Mix seems to be trying hard, which clearly means he woke up as Mix again!
What does he seem to be trying hard?

Can you answer this question Eevee?

I thought I'd missed RVS but apparently there hasn't been any RVS yet?

Neat!

vote: chairs

Why is chairs more scum than normal this game?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: faust on September 25, 2020, 04:29:50 am
I feel Robz reads me well, he'd have been my number one pick for the IC role from the player list.
Is the main quality you look for in an IC whether they read you well?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: faust on September 25, 2020, 04:40:12 am
Vote: ADK
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Eevee on September 25, 2020, 06:09:46 am
Mix seems to be trying hard, which clearly means he woke up as Mix again!
What does he seem to be trying hard?

Can you answer this question Eevee?

I thought I'd missed RVS but apparently there hasn't been any RVS yet?

Neat!

vote: chairs

Why is chairs more scum than normal this game?
Oh sorry, missed it. Just Mix coming in hot as usual, making a multiple posts and asserting himself in the game. They were RVSíy, but at least there was some meat someone could possibly sink their teeth into to jumpstart the game for real.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Eevee on September 25, 2020, 06:16:18 am
I feel Robz reads me well, he'd have been my number one pick for the IC role from the player list.
Is the main quality you look for in an IC whether they read you well?
Iwould say ICís are most useful when they are a mover and shaker whoís likely to be a strong voice in steering the game, especially if they have a notorious history of doing so as scum and getting away with it (people like yourself, galzria and indeed robz). Extra good for robz because while heís a great endgame player, he also often gets lynched early for lurking and being indifferent about the game.
Itís a personal perk that robz being the IC I think makes me more likely to live longer, maybe.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: MiX on September 25, 2020, 06:20:55 am
Eevee's town.

Eevee, who do you think is scum?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 25, 2020, 07:17:03 am
Mix seems to be trying hard, which clearly means he woke up as Mix again!
What does he seem to be trying hard?

Can you answer this question Eevee?

I thought I'd missed RVS but apparently there hasn't been any RVS yet?

Neat!

vote: chairs

Why is chairs more scum than normal this game?
Oh sorry, missed it. Just Mix coming in hot as usual, making a multiple posts and asserting himself in the game. They were RVSíy, but at least there was some meat someone could possibly sink their teeth into to jumpstart the game for real.

I've read mix's posts up to this point as being pretty much meat-free, which is unusual for mix
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: MiX on September 25, 2020, 07:23:01 am
Do I need to call out scum teams again?

ADK/Dylan/EFHW.

How do I make posts with meat? What's that anyway?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 25, 2020, 07:28:46 am
Do I need to call out scum teams again?

ADK/Dylan/EFHW.

How do I make posts with meat? What's that anyway?

Posts that aren't pure fluff and involve scrutinizing people's alignment
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: MiX on September 25, 2020, 07:32:05 am
Do I need to call out scum teams again?

ADK/Dylan/EFHW.

How do I make posts with meat? What's that anyway?

Posts that aren't pure fluff and involve scrutinizing people's alignment

My posts aren't pure fluff, so I don't understand what you meant before then.

Do you think I'm not scrutinizing people's alignments then?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 25, 2020, 07:34:40 am
Do I need to call out scum teams again?

ADK/Dylan/EFHW.

How do I make posts with meat? What's that anyway?

Posts that aren't pure fluff and involve scrutinizing people's alignment

My posts aren't pure fluff, so I don't understand what you meant before then.

Do you think I'm not scrutinizing people's alignments then?

You are now, there was a lot of pure fluff for awhile
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: MiX on September 25, 2020, 07:44:46 am
Well...okay...

Do you think I'm scum, and if so, why?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 25, 2020, 07:48:37 am
Well...okay...

Do you think I'm scum, and if so, why?

Yes, or at least reasonably likely to be so. Your opening series of posts read with a nervous energy to me. Lots of people enter the game with fluff but you put a lot out there without really pushing the game forward, which is something I expect town!mix to try and do
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: MiX on September 25, 2020, 07:50:57 am
Well...okay...

Do you think I'm scum, and if so, why?

Yes, or at least reasonably likely to be so. Your opening series of posts read with a nervous energy to me. Lots of people enter the game with fluff but you put a lot out there without really pushing the game forward, which is something I expect town!mix to try and do

How do I push the game forward if no one said anything alignment indicative? Other than EFHW, that is.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Eevee on September 25, 2020, 08:05:24 am
Eevee's town.

Eevee, who do you think is scum?
Completely honest answer: no idea yet.

If I stretch it a bit: maybe you?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 25, 2020, 08:08:10 am
Well...okay...

Do you think I'm scum, and if so, why?

Yes, or at least reasonably likely to be so. Your opening series of posts read with a nervous energy to me. Lots of people enter the game with fluff but you put a lot out there without really pushing the game forward, which is something I expect town!mix to try and do

How do I push the game forward if no one said anything alignment indicative? Other than EFHW, that is.

First, I'd say that more than one person has posted something scrutinizable for alignment. Second, the fact that you didn't have anything game-related to say but continued to make multiple empty posts suggests that you were at the time concerned about appearing active, which is scummy
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Eevee on September 25, 2020, 08:15:17 am
I disagree that wanting to appear active is an actual scumtell. Town wants to live too! Like, I didnít sign up for my annual game of mafia to go early, I want to be there for the good parts!
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 25, 2020, 08:26:55 am
I disagree that wanting to appear active is an actual scumtell. Town wants to live too! Like, I didnít sign up for my annual game of mafia to go early, I want to be there for the good parts!

It's a higher priority for scum than town, and scum has a harder time trying to figure out to say so is more likely to say something empty
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: faust on September 25, 2020, 08:27:55 am
Oh sorry, missed it. Just Mix coming in hot as usual, making a multiple posts and asserting himself in the game. They were RVSíy, but at least there was some meat someone could possibly sink their teeth into to jumpstart the game for real.
But I presume that you are not that someone?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: faust on September 25, 2020, 08:31:53 am
How do I make posts with meat? What's that anyway?
I suggest you go beef up your analysis and flesh out your scumreads. Don't be a chicken and afraid that someone might pork fun at you!
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Eevee on September 25, 2020, 09:19:05 am
Oh sorry, missed it. Just Mix coming in hot as usual, making a multiple posts and asserting himself in the game. They were RVSíy, but at least there was some meat someone could possibly sink their teeth into to jumpstart the game for real.
But I presume that you are not that someone?
You know me, pretty toothless. I promise Iíll try!
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 25, 2020, 09:56:13 am
How do I make posts with meat? What's that anyway?
I suggest you go beef up your analysis and flesh out your scumreads. Don't be a chicken and afraid that someone might pork fun at you!

Vote: faust before he gets saltier
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 25, 2020, 10:04:40 am
Have we seen Dylan or Joseph yet?

I think maybe scum EFHW is more present. Iím not finding I gotta anything off about MiX at all, so far. Eevee is always wonderful and so far, not scummy. ADKs annoyance with people not voting makes me giggle and also typical...but perhaps the least interesting in terms of trying to sort people. Galz is hanging back more than Iíd guess.

faust and space are hard for me to figure out. Glooble is tricky here....I know he is busy, but also when heís scum he gets quiet.

Who am I missing? Oh, chairs! I have zero ability to read chairs. I always think sheís scummy. He rarely is.

Vote: ADK
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Galzria on September 25, 2020, 10:07:43 am
How do I make posts with meat? What's that anyway?
I suggest you go beef up your analysis and flesh out your scumreads. Don't be a chicken and afraid that someone might pork fun at you!

Vote: faust before he gets saltier

Ooh, that vote is really going to make him stew.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 25, 2020, 10:08:33 am
Galz is hanging back more than Iíd guess.

Galz has been a bit of a lurker in the past few games I've been in with him. He's not someone I expect to be very active D1

PPE of course he posts as I'm writing this
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Glooble on September 25, 2020, 10:20:57 am

Why is chairs more scum than normal this game?

Opening post just felt suspicious, idk. "Robz is a good IC" - we all know that, it adds nothing of value, it's just a way of looking like you're not lurking. Then he votes for the mod? How very non-committal. Just doesn't feel genuine.

Glooble is tricky here....I know he is busy, but also when heís scum he gets quiet.


I'm really only busy on Thursdays right now.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Eevee on September 25, 2020, 10:21:09 am
Have we seen Dylan or Joseph yet?

I think maybe scum EFHW is more present. Iím not finding I gotta anything off about MiX at all, so far. Eevee is always wonderful and so far, not scummy. ADKs annoyance with people not voting makes me giggle and also typical...but perhaps the least interesting in terms of trying to sort people. Galz is hanging back more than Iíd guess.

faust and space are hard for me to figure out. Glooble is tricky here....I know he is busy, but also when heís scum he gets quiet.

Who am I missing? Oh, chairs! I have zero ability to read chairs. I always think sheís scummy. He rarely is.

Vote: ADK
I think this is a towny post. I like the content, and the idea of doing a reads post, all in all good feels.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: EFHW on September 25, 2020, 10:23:53 am
Galz is hanging back more than Iíd guess.

Galz has been a bit of a lurker in the past few games I've been in with him. He's not someone I expect to be very active D1

PPE of course he posts as I'm writing this

How did you decide to put pressure on MiX but defend Galz?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: EFHW on September 25, 2020, 10:26:23 am
I feel Robz reads me well, he'd have been my number one pick for the IC role from the player list.
Is the main quality you look for in an IC whether they read you well?
Iwould say ICís are most useful when they are a mover and shaker whoís likely to be a strong voice in steering the game, especially if they have a notorious history of doing so as scum and getting away with it (people like yourself, galzria and indeed robz). Extra good for robz because while heís a great endgame player, he also often gets lynched early for lurking and being indifferent about the game.
Itís a personal perk that robz being the IC I think makes me more likely to live longer, maybe.

It's good that Robz is IC because many games get hung up on the question of whether he is scum or not.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 25, 2020, 10:27:13 am
Galz is hanging back more than Iíd guess.

Galz has been a bit of a lurker in the past few games I've been in with him. He's not someone I expect to be very active D1

PPE of course he posts as I'm writing this

How did you decide to put pressure on MiX but defend Galz?

Because there's a difference between lurking and making lots of empty posts
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Glooble on September 25, 2020, 10:32:35 am
ADK is making a lot of sense right now. Reread MiX, think about games you've played with town!MiX. Town!MiX makes bold assertions. He's abrasive (intentionally so, I think.) This MiX seems too cautious.

Vote: MiX
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Robz888 on September 25, 2020, 10:43:05 am
Thank you ADK... my cats and dogs obviously messed up the first post....


Robz88 is the Innocent Child and  confirmed Town-Aligned


Excellent! A Robz you can trust is the best kind.

Also hi all, it's been a while. :)

Yes, Robz being IC is great. How well do you feel he usually reads you? Also, are you still as happy and friendly as last time we crossed paths? :-)
As fluffy as ever!

I feel Robz reads me well, he'd have been my number one pick for the IC role from the player list.

When *I* buddy people like this, it raises suspicion!

Sorry, I promise at some point I will stop re-litigating grievances from past games.

(But not yet.)
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Robz888 on September 25, 2020, 10:45:28 am
I feel Robz reads me well, he'd have been my number one pick for the IC role from the player list.
Is the main quality you look for in an IC whether they read you well?
Iwould say ICís are most useful when they are a mover and shaker whoís likely to be a strong voice in steering the game, especially if they have a notorious history of doing so as scum and getting away with it (people like yourself, galzria and indeed robz). Extra good for robz because while heís a great endgame player, he also often gets lynched early for lurking and being indifferent about the game.
Itís a personal perk that robz being the IC I think makes me more likely to live longer, maybe.

It's good that Robz is IC because many games get hung up on the question of whether he is scum or not.

Yes, this is the best case for having me as IC.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Robz888 on September 25, 2020, 10:46:39 am
Seems like we are already falling into the familiar pattern of directing all energy and attention toward MiX, which I am learning is at the very least anti-town, if not necessarily scum behavior. A challenge to all: Talk about any other player as much as you talk about MiX!
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Robz888 on September 25, 2020, 10:47:24 am
Vote: Glooble
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: MiX on September 25, 2020, 11:12:16 am

Why is chairs more scum than normal this game?

Opening post just felt suspicious, idk. "Robz is a good IC" - we all know that, it adds nothing of value, it's just a way of looking like you're not lurking. Then he votes for the mod? How very non-committal. Just doesn't feel genuine.

Glooble is tricky here....I know he is busy, but also when heís scum he gets quiet.


I'm really only busy on Thursdays right now.

You got scum again? Just don't sub out for joth so I can actually push you, okay?

Vote: Glooble

Seems like we are already falling into the familiar pattern of directing all energy and attention toward MiX, which I am learning is at the very least anti-town, if not necessarily scum behavior. A challenge to all: Talk about any other player as much as you talk about MiX!

That's going to be hard, but I'll try, I guess.

Vote: Glooble

Hey, good reads.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: MiX on September 25, 2020, 11:17:28 am
How do I make posts with meat? What's that anyway?
I suggest you go beef up your analysis and flesh out your scumreads. Don't be a chicken and afraid that someone might pork fun at you!

This is amazing, and exactly what I expected when I asked that.

Have we seen Dylan or Joseph yet?

I think maybe scum EFHW is more present. Iím not finding I gotta anything off about MiX at all, so far. Eevee is always wonderful and so far, not scummy. ADKs annoyance with people not voting makes me giggle and also typical...but perhaps the least interesting in terms of trying to sort people. Galz is hanging back more than Iíd guess.

faust and space are hard for me to figure out. Glooble is tricky here....I know he is busy, but also when heís scum he gets quiet.

Who am I missing? Oh, chairs! I have zero ability to read chairs. I always think sheís scummy. He rarely is.

Vote: ADK
I think this is a towny post. I like the content, and the idea of doing a reads post, all in all good feels.

I agree with this. Not sure what that makes Eevee though. Oh wait eevee's town I already determined that.

Galz is hanging back more than Iíd guess.

Galz has been a bit of a lurker in the past few games I've been in with him. He's not someone I expect to be very active D1

PPE of course he posts as I'm writing this

How did you decide to put pressure on MiX but defend Galz?

Why did you ask this specific question? It's very interesting.

I feel Robz reads me well, he'd have been my number one pick for the IC role from the player list.
Is the main quality you look for in an IC whether they read you well?
Iwould say ICís are most useful when they are a mover and shaker whoís likely to be a strong voice in steering the game, especially if they have a notorious history of doing so as scum and getting away with it (people like yourself, galzria and indeed robz). Extra good for robz because while heís a great endgame player, he also often gets lynched early for lurking and being indifferent about the game.
Itís a personal perk that robz being the IC I think makes me more likely to live longer, maybe.

It's good that Robz is IC because many games get hung up on the question of whether he is scum or not.

This is very true. It's one of the many reasons why Robz should always be IC when town :P

ADK is making a lot of sense right now. Reread MiX, think about games you've played with town!MiX. Town!MiX makes bold assertions. He's abrasive (intentionally so, I think.) This MiX seems too cautious.

Vote: MiX

Can you bring up examples? I think I'm being exceptionally townier this game than most, not the other way around.


Think of the previous post as things I really wanted to answer first, and this one as things I felt like I needed to answer.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Glooble on September 25, 2020, 11:39:37 am
Sheeping the IC! Super towny thing to do.

Did you mean you wanted examples of previous games where you came out swinging with substantive arguments, even if they were wrong? Just want to verfiy that that's what you're asking for before I spend a bunch of time hunting them down.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Glooble on September 25, 2020, 11:41:44 am
Seems like we are already falling into the familiar pattern of directing all energy and attention toward MiX, which I am learning is at the very least anti-town, if not necessarily scum behavior. A challenge to all: Talk about any other player as much as you talk about MiX!

MiX gives us so much more to talk about though. Chairs made two posts and one of them was about his computer not working. MiX made 15 posts in the same span!
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: MiX on September 25, 2020, 11:56:04 am
Sheeping the IC! Super towny thing to do.

Did you mean you wanted examples of previous games where you came out swinging with substantive arguments, even if they were wrong? Just want to verfiy that that's what you're asking for before I spend a bunch of time hunting them down.

How is it my fault that I saw Robz voted for you when I was going to do that already :(

Examples of me not doing than when I'm scum, and how similar that is to this game.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 25, 2020, 12:01:56 pm
Sheeping the IC! Super towny thing to do.

vote: glooble
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Eevee on September 25, 2020, 12:10:39 pm
I think Glooble seems more annoyed by Mix than anything else, very tunnel-visiony. Not something scum would usually fake I donít think. I think exasperation is actually somewhat of a town tell.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: faust on September 25, 2020, 12:25:47 pm
Sheeping the IC! Super towny thing to do.

vote: glooble
You stole my line!

Good thing I'm already voting for you.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: faust on September 25, 2020, 12:30:02 pm
I think Glooble seems more annoyed by Mix than anything else, very tunnel-visiony. Not something scum would usually fake I donít think. I think exasperation is actually somewhat of a town tell.
Where are you getting that Glooble is annoyed? from what I read it seems like he's voting MiX because he's not sufficiently annoyed at him:

ADK is making a lot of sense right now. Reread MiX, think about games you've played with town!MiX. Town!MiX makes bold assertions. He's abrasive (intentionally so, I think.) This MiX seems too cautious.

Vote: MiX
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Eevee on September 25, 2020, 12:45:43 pm
Uh, I kind of feel bad about assuming frustration from Glooble if itís not really there, wouldnít want to start a fight or stir up any kind of trouble at all. Just to me (!, i may be mistaken) seems Gloobles tone towards Mix is more hostile than heíd usually be.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: chairs on September 25, 2020, 12:59:52 pm
Let's be real, scumteam is MiX/Chairs/Robz and we bribed the mod to fake-IC Robz.  ::)

Thoughts:
0. Swowl
Obviously secretly playing as the grassy knoll scummer.

1. Dylan
HOW HAVE I NOT WRITTEN ANYTHING ABOUT YOU BY POST 56

2. WCD
First post - towny fluff.
IKR MIXIAN RESPONSE IS THE BEST.

3. EFHW
First post - towny fluff.
Next notable post is talking about liking cats despite being allergic. This is not very doglike behavior, EFHW, and I am disappointed.

4. ADK
First post calls out request for IC info. Means ADK read the setup. Reading the setup is scummy.
Votes MiX but feels the need to explain why. Explanations about MiX votes are for scum who want to feel better about wagoning their teammate (MiX, who is always scum). Scummy.
MIXIAN RESPONSE I love you, I'm not rewriting this post but you get a D1 pass now b/c I love this.
Tries to pair me as scum with mix. Is obviously trying to deflect from their own obvious pairing with mix.

5. Galz
Gets first post of D1, scummy. Eager to dig into MiX, known scum extraordinaire. Clearly D1 ploy to wagon a teammate for towncred. Scummy.
Votes Robz, confirmed Town.

6. Joseph

7. faust
Complicit in Swowl's plot to disenfranchise deserving dogs. Clearly a cat, and thus scum.
"Everybody wants to be a cat" notes. Everybody knows cats are stinky noodlebutts. DOG AM BEST BOI. SUPER SCUM.
Accuses mix of having trouble reading their own posts. I'm dying. Everyone knows cats don't have humor, so this must be a misdogerstanding.
votes ADK. ADK is the less obv of the obv!scum, so this is leaning me back towards dog-status more.

8. MiX
Tells Galz to trust his MiX!Radar. Neutral. We all have a great MiX!Radar, that being that MiX is always scum.
Votes EFHW. Thus, EFHW is Town.
Agrees with ADK voting MiX. IS MIX. Clearly a ploy to make scum!ADK look like town!ADK.
Votes EFHW... again? (reply 57). I can only assume this is some hardcore PR hunting.
Defends me. IS THIS THE RARE TOWN MIX? OR IS THIS A DIRTY CAT PLOY?

9. chairs
It's me! I'm amazing and practically perfect in every way.

10. Eevee
Trusting IC!Robz? Not a good look. Scum.
Fluffy? Good bois are fluffy and pettable. Maaaybe is dog?

11. Space
IS IN SPACE and thus a dog. Have you heard of any famous cats in space? NO. WE ONLY PUT GOOD DOGGOS IN SPACE. NO CAT.

12. Robz
IC.

13. Glooble
"Allergic to cats". Sounds like something a cat would say. Everyone knows even cats hate cats.
Votes me! Confirmed scum.

(14). Jotheonah
Killed N0 by Swowl. Basically John F Doggedy.



Okay I'm bored with that now, ran out of steam about post 84. Main takeaway? This game has had relatively little meat.

Specific notes in not-amusing-myself fashion:
MiX is bit fluffier than usual, which I actually think is a Town!MiX tell - I think scum!MiX kinda bares fangs a little quicker in the outset.
Eevee is stressing that Robz "reads me well" which feels a lil' scummy honestly.
XaL says vote: Dylan is a solid choice. Joseph also a good choice.
Robz as IC is great, because now I don't have to vote Robz off the island for being Robz, who I usually feel like plays a very scummy Town game (and a very scummy Scum game).
The way ADK has played off MiX makes me feel like ADK is kinda scummy.
faust comes off as, well, faust. I'd feel more towny about it from, say, Glooble, but for faust this is neutral.

JOHNNY FIVE NEEDS INPUT. More votes, folks.

Will try to read though stuff past 90 or so in a bit.

Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: EFHW on September 25, 2020, 01:04:55 pm
Galz is hanging back more than Iíd guess.

Galz has been a bit of a lurker in the past few games I've been in with him. He's not someone I expect to be very active D1

PPE of course he posts as I'm writing this

How did you decide to put pressure on MiX but defend Galz?

Why did you ask this specific question? It's very interesting.

I was wondering what it meant that ADK defended Galz there. They didn't need to and they weren't giving other people slack. Plus giving people D1 passes for participation is not conducive to active games.

I'm also not sure what to make of the pressure on you. I feel like they are making a big thing out of a small amount of information, and again, why encourage you to make baseless claims?

Speaking of which, you do know we aren't partners this time around?

PPE: Chairs
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 25, 2020, 01:36:54 pm
OMG, I don't get to see Chairs off the chain like this very often.  I am HERE FOR IT! 
It's like curmudgeon mixed with hipster with a dash of good doggo and its awesome.

Mixy, it seems clear you need to make the MiXian comment your new sig. You've officially been Mixing here long enough to have a spice blend of your own.

Big owl, will you please PROD Dylan and Joseph?  Thanks, friend

Dylan is always town and Joseph is always scum in my mind, so that lurking looks seriously good/bad for them.

Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: faust on September 25, 2020, 01:39:34 pm
IS IN SPACE and thus a dog. Have you heard of any famous cats in space? NO. WE ONLY PUT GOOD DOGGOS IN SPACE. NO CAT.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%C3%A9licette
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: MiX on September 25, 2020, 01:53:53 pm
Mixy, it seems clear you need to make the MiXian comment your new sig. You've officially been Mixing here long enough to have a spice blend of your own.

Sure, I'll add it when this game's over. I just really like the current one.

Speaking of which, you do know we aren't partners this time around?

Yes I do, and I wish we were.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: chairs on September 25, 2020, 02:20:27 pm
IS IN SPACE and thus a dog. Have you heard of any famous cats in space? NO. WE ONLY PUT GOOD DOGGOS IN SPACE. NO CAT.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%C3%A9licette

OF COURSE IT WOULD BE THE FRENCH.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: chairs on September 25, 2020, 02:41:09 pm
OMG, I don't get to see Chairs off the chain like this very often.  I am HERE FOR IT! 
It's like curmudgeon mixed with hipster with a dash of good doggo and its awesome.

Mixy, it seems clear you need to make the MiXian comment your new sig. You've officially been Mixing here long enough to have a spice blend of your own.

Big owl, will you please PROD Dylan and Joseph?  Thanks, friend

Dylan is always town and Joseph is always scum in my mind, so that lurking looks seriously good/bad for them.

Unleashed.

I see what you did there. And I like it.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Glooble on September 25, 2020, 02:56:17 pm
Definitely not trying to come off as hostile. Honestly I was just trying to get a wagon going. Which I guess I succeeded at? The wagon is on me, which I wasn't planning on, but still. Wagons are good. So huzzah!
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Dylan32 on September 25, 2020, 03:29:34 pm
Sorry Iím just now here. Iíve been sick for several days, so I totally forgot about this. Iíll catch up now!
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Swowl on September 25, 2020, 03:31:15 pm
Prods have been sent to both Dylan and Joseph.

Given the weekend is starting, I am going to give them slightly longer than 24 hours to check in before offering up Sub-Spots. 



PPE - Thank you, Dylan.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Joseph2302 on September 25, 2020, 03:33:19 pm
Prods have been sent to both Dylan and Joseph.

Given the weekend is starting, I am going to give them slightly longer than 24 hours to check in before offering up Sub-Spots. 



PPE - Thank you, Dylan.
I messaged in QT
Sorry been off f.ds and it's meant to email me when I get messages,  but didn't get role PM email

So only just found this game started, will read during the weekend (Saturday)
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Joseph2302 on September 25, 2020, 03:39:49 pm
I'm the SK
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Joseph2302 on September 25, 2020, 03:40:12 pm
And Vote: Space for RL Mafia 1
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Swowl on September 25, 2020, 04:10:33 pm
Vote Count 1.2:

Glooble (3): Robz888, MiX, ADK
ADK (2): faust, WCD
MiX (1): Glooble
EFHW (1): MiX
Robz888 (1): Galzria
Dylan (1): chairs
Space (1): Joseph

Not Voting (4): Dylan, EFHW, Eevee, Space

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 ends on September 30th at 10pm Forum Time.

*Friendly MOD request - Please place your Votes on their own line of text when possible.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Eevee on September 25, 2020, 04:10:44 pm
I think Glooble is town.

Feel better Dylan! Do you have someone you think is particularly scummy or towny?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Dylan32 on September 25, 2020, 04:38:36 pm
Iím caught up. Chairs, sorry I didnít give you much to talk about. When my head clears up, Iíll do my best to fix that. I am also glad Robz is IC. Not having to sort out Robz and MiX in the same game willl be nice.

I think Glooble is town.

Feel better Dylan! Do you have someone you think is particularly scummy or towny?

Appreciate it. At the moment no. I do think there has been some alignment stuff thatís happened, but mentally am not in a space to sort it out at the moment. For once, MiX hasnít necessarily pinged my scum!MiXdar, so Iím going to actively try to not get hung up there this game unless he gives me a good reason to.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: mail-mi on September 25, 2020, 04:51:52 pm
/tag
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Swowl on September 25, 2020, 05:45:40 pm
/tag

gochu :)
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Joseph2302 on September 25, 2020, 06:44:27 pm
Vote Count 1.2:

Glooble (3): Robz888, MiX, ADK
ADK (2): faust, WCD
MiX (1): Glooble
EFHW (1): MiX
Robz888 (1): Galzria
Dylan (1): chairs
Space (1): Joseph

Not Voting (4): Dylan, EFHW, Eevee, Space

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 ends on September 30th at 10pm Forum Time.

*Friendly MOD request - Please place your Votes on their own line of text when possible.
So the way for me to not get votes in D1 is to do nothing? I'll bear that in mind ;)
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 25, 2020, 06:51:30 pm
I think Glooble seems more annoyed by Mix than anything else, very tunnel-visiony. Not something scum would usually fake I donít think. I think exasperation is actually somewhat of a town tell.

I completely disagree, "tunnel-vision" is a much easier part to play than someone who is actually scumhunting, and everyone knows that everyone thinks it's a towntell
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 25, 2020, 06:55:57 pm
Galz is hanging back more than Iíd guess.

Galz has been a bit of a lurker in the past few games I've been in with him. He's not someone I expect to be very active D1

PPE of course he posts as I'm writing this

How did you decide to put pressure on MiX but defend Galz?

Why did you ask this specific question? It's very interesting.

I was wondering what it meant that ADK defended Galz there. They didn't need to and they weren't giving other people slack. Plus giving people D1 passes for participation is not conducive to active games.

I'm also not sure what to make of the pressure on you. I feel like they are making a big thing out of a small amount of information, and again, why encourage you to make baseless claims?

Speaking of which, you do know we aren't partners this time around?

PPE: Chairs

I fell like I've made some successful things out of small information in the past. What do you mean about encouraging to make baseless claims?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Joseph2302 on September 25, 2020, 07:02:57 pm
Well from that reading I learnt:

There was a lot of focus on mix, which seems to have dragged conversation away from much else
2 people just sheeped the IC

still none the wiser
 Vote:EFHW
Always scum so the maths for voting there is good ;)
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: MiX on September 25, 2020, 07:18:58 pm
Vote: EFHW
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Glooble on September 25, 2020, 07:21:05 pm
Vote: ADK

ADK starts a wagon. I get on it. The IC votes me for getting on ADKs wagon. ADK starts pushing me as scummy for agreeing with them.

Do these sound like the actions of a town player?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: MiX on September 25, 2020, 07:21:55 pm
Vote: ADK

ADK starts a wagon. I get on it. The IC votes me for getting on ADKs wagon. ADK starts pushing me as scummy for agreeing with them.

Do these sound like the actions of a town player?

Yes.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: MiX on September 25, 2020, 07:41:07 pm
Sheeping the IC! Super towny thing to do.

Did you mean you wanted examples of previous games where you came out swinging with substantive arguments, even if they were wrong? Just want to verfiy that that's what you're asking for before I spend a bunch of time hunting them down.

How is it my fault that I saw Robz voted for you when I was going to do that already :(

Examples of me not doing than when I'm scum, and how similar that is to this game.

Will you do this or not, I'm fine either way.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 25, 2020, 07:48:00 pm
Vote: ADK

ADK starts a wagon. I get on it. The IC votes me for getting on ADKs wagon. ADK starts pushing me as scummy for agreeing with them.

Do these sound like the actions of a town player?

I'm not pushing you as scummy for agreeing with me, I'm pushing you as scummy for resorting to a lazy "sheeping the IC is scummy" argument when the player doing so genuinely had things to say about you
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Glooble on September 25, 2020, 09:50:52 pm
Sheeping the IC! Super towny thing to do.

Did you mean you wanted examples of previous games where you came out swinging with substantive arguments, even if they were wrong? Just want to verfiy that that's what you're asking for before I spend a bunch of time hunting them down.

How is it my fault that I saw Robz voted for you when I was going to do that already :(

Examples of me not doing than when I'm scum, and how similar that is to this game.

Will you do this or not, I'm fine either way.

Probably not tbh.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: EFHW on September 25, 2020, 10:19:19 pm
Galz is hanging back more than Iíd guess.

Galz has been a bit of a lurker in the past few games I've been in with him. He's not someone I expect to be very active D1

PPE of course he posts as I'm writing this

How did you decide to put pressure on MiX but defend Galz?

Why did you ask this specific question? It's very interesting.

I was wondering what it meant that ADK defended Galz there. They didn't need to and they weren't giving other people slack. Plus giving people D1 passes for participation is not conducive to active games.

I'm also not sure what to make of the pressure on you. I feel like they are making a big thing out of a small amount of information, and again, why encourage you to make baseless claims?

Speaking of which, you do know we aren't partners this time around?

PPE: Chairs

I fell like I've made some successful things out of small information in the past. What do you mean about encouraging to make baseless claims?
I get that.  But the day had hardly begun, and MiX was being encouraged to do his tunnel thing. But in any case, his voting me is starting to feel less like friendly RVS and more like something else.  Not sure what.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: EFHW on September 25, 2020, 10:23:29 pm
Well from that reading I learnt:

There was a lot of focus on mix, which seems to have dragged conversation away from much else
2 people just sheeped the IC

still none the wiser
 Vote:EFHW
Always scum so the maths for voting there is good ;)

We're out of RVS at this point, and that streak finally broke. I'm only scum like half the time now. (Hint: I was scum in my last game)
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: EFHW on September 25, 2020, 10:25:18 pm
Vote: ADK

ADK starts a wagon. I get on it. The IC votes me for getting on ADKs wagon. ADK starts pushing me as scummy for agreeing with them.

Do these sound like the actions of a town player?

ADK is being pretty towny ino. OMGUS?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Dylan32 on September 26, 2020, 01:57:45 am
Vote: ADK

ADK starts a wagon. I get on it. The IC votes me for getting on ADKs wagon. ADK starts pushing me as scummy for agreeing with them.

Do these sound like the actions of a town player?

ADK is being pretty towny ino. OMGUS?

Agree. Going back through, town!adk was the gutread I felt most clearly.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Joseph2302 on September 26, 2020, 03:53:39 am
Well from that reading I learnt:

There was a lot of focus on mix, which seems to have dragged conversation away from much else
2 people just sheeped the IC

still none the wiser
 Vote:EFHW
Always scum so the maths for voting there is good ;)

We're out of RVS at this point, and that streak finally broke. I'm only scum like half the time now. (Hint: I was scum in my last game)
I know, amazing how RVs doesn't happen when I'm not around
And it was over 80% when we played on lynchpool
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Joseph2302 on September 26, 2020, 03:54:29 am
Vote: ADK

ADK starts a wagon. I get on it. The IC votes me for getting on ADKs wagon. ADK starts pushing me as scummy for agreeing with them.

Do these sound like the actions of a town player?

ADK is being pretty towny ino. OMGUS?
I tend to agree that ADK seems towny
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 26, 2020, 08:04:52 am
Three people in a row saying I'm townie is noteworthy. I'm going to guess that there's exactly one scum on that group
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: faust on September 26, 2020, 11:17:56 am
Three people in a row saying I'm townie is noteworthy. I'm going to guess that there's exactly one scum on that group
Want to also veture a guess which one it is?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 26, 2020, 11:35:08 am
Three people in a row saying I'm townie is noteworthy. I'm going to guess that there's exactly one scum on that group
Want to also veture a guess which one it is?

If I did I would have said
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Eevee on September 26, 2020, 12:14:25 pm
Three people in a row saying I'm townie is noteworthy. I'm going to guess that there's exactly one scum on that group
Want to also veture a guess which one it is?

If I did I would have said
Why do you think there is exactly one?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: EFHW on September 26, 2020, 01:23:49 pm
Hey, heads up my computer crashed and I'm still fixing that (I mean "new OS" crashed, not "reboot" crashed). I literally haven't looked at my QT yet but I thought I'd note that I will be able to play.

I just realized - this is "pure chairs" since he didn't know his alignment.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Robz888 on September 26, 2020, 01:37:02 pm
Town read on ADK
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 26, 2020, 03:10:27 pm
Three people in a row saying I'm townie is noteworthy. I'm going to guess that there's exactly one scum on that group
Want to also veture a guess which one it is?

If I did I would have said
Why do you think there is exactly one?

The sequence has an artificial feel to me because it's three people expressing the exact same opinion without elaboration, which raises an alarm bell to me that there's scum involvement. I don't think multiple scum would associate themselves together like that though, especially not in a way that discourages a misexile. So there's probably one scum in there. Though I guess it's less likely to be EFHW since she went first

Hey, heads up my computer crashed and I'm still fixing that (I mean "new OS" crashed, not "reboot" crashed). I literally haven't looked at my QT yet but I thought I'd note that I will be able to play.

I just realized - this is "pure chairs" since he didn't know his alignment.

Allegedly
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: MiX on September 26, 2020, 04:11:32 pm
Space, do you have anything to say about anyone?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: EFHW on September 26, 2020, 04:30:52 pm
Three people in a row saying I'm townie is noteworthy. I'm going to guess that there's exactly one scum on that group

I don't agree with this logic. If you weren't being towny, then it would be a stronger argument.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: MiX on September 26, 2020, 04:35:25 pm
Three people in a row saying I'm townie is noteworthy. I'm going to guess that there's exactly one scum on that group

I don't agree with this logic. If you weren't being towny, then it would be a stronger argument.

But they weren't being towny. Of course you think they were, but you're also part of the 3 people group.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Dylan32 on September 26, 2020, 04:40:42 pm
Three people in a row saying I'm townie is noteworthy. I'm going to guess that there's exactly one scum on that group

I don't agree with this logic. If you weren't being towny, then it would be a stronger argument.

But they weren't being towny. Of course you think they were, but you're also part of the 3 people group.

So what was ADK doing that did not seem towny to you?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: MiX on September 26, 2020, 04:47:09 pm
Three people in a row saying I'm townie is noteworthy. I'm going to guess that there's exactly one scum on that group

I don't agree with this logic. If you weren't being towny, then it would be a stronger argument.

But they weren't being towny. Of course you think they were, but you're also part of the 3 people group.

So what was ADK doing that did not seem towny to you?

Their push on me, for example. I'm town reading them now so I can't really answer this better without coming up with random things.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Eevee on September 26, 2020, 05:46:03 pm
Galzria, do you have any reads?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Robz888 on September 26, 2020, 05:51:38 pm
Galzria, do you have any reads?

Galz has been quieter in games lately, and when he does post, it's 99% anti-Robz content. You can tell I'm not bitter at all!
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Galzria on September 26, 2020, 06:05:15 pm
Galzria, do you have any reads?

Galz has been quieter in games lately, and when he does post, it's 99% anti-Robz content. You can tell I'm not bitter at all!

Only the last game! Because you were buddying me! And you WERE scum!
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: MiX on September 26, 2020, 06:08:09 pm
Galzria, do you have any reads?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Galzria on September 26, 2020, 06:10:08 pm
Galzria, do you have any reads?

Iím caught up as in, Iíve read everything - but I havenít really had the chance to look in detail at peopleís posts to start making real reads on their alignments.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Galzria on September 26, 2020, 06:10:43 pm
Galzria, do you have any reads?

Thanks for requoting. Useful.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: MiX on September 26, 2020, 06:11:38 pm
Galzria, do you have any reads?

Thanks for requoting. Useful.

No problem, I'll remember to do more of these next time since they've proven to be useful.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: MiX on September 26, 2020, 06:16:34 pm
Vote: Galzria, not scummy but really high chances of having gotten scum this game.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 26, 2020, 06:20:11 pm
Sorry, sorry... I was weekending. Look at ADK being all towny. Iíll move my vote when I have more time.

Actually, I think this works for now:
Vote: Galz

Last night we went and camped out over night in line for a limited bourbon release at Garrison Brothers. It was absurd and awesome and there a lot of Texas bros duding up the line. We slept in our Prius. They slept in their gigantic trucks.

PPE:1
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Galzria on September 26, 2020, 06:20:41 pm
Vote: Galzria, not scummy but really high chances of having gotten scum this game.

Your logic is astounding.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: MiX on September 26, 2020, 06:21:24 pm
Vote: Galzria, not scummy but really high chances of having gotten scum this game.

Your logic is astounding.

I'm glad you understand it, I thought I was being somewhat obscure.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: EFHW on September 26, 2020, 06:28:58 pm
Galzria, do you have any reads?

Galz has been quieter in games lately, and when he does post, it's 99% anti-Robz content. You can tell I'm not bitter at all!

Only the last game! Because you were buddying me! And you WERE scum!
That's a very good point. But why is everyone giving you a Day 1 participation pass?

I thought I would still have a grudge against faust, but I seem to be over it.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 26, 2020, 06:44:08 pm
Galzria, do you have any reads?

Galz has been quieter in games lately, and when he does post, it's 99% anti-Robz content. You can tell I'm not bitter at all!

Only the last game! Because you were buddying me! And you WERE scum!
That's a very good point. But why is everyone giving you a Day 1 participation pass?

I thought I would still have a grudge against faust, but I seem to be over it.

Do you think Galz being inactive is indicative of his alignment in this game, or do you just want him to be more active?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: chairs on September 26, 2020, 06:49:25 pm
Phone posting for like the next four days.

Not feeling good about this ADK situation that occurred. Feeling worse about the Galz situation.

Didds and MiX getting D1 passes from me
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 26, 2020, 06:52:12 pm
Phone posting for like the next four days.

Not feeling good about this ADK situation that occurred. Feeling worse about the Galz situation.

Didds and MiX getting D1 passes from me

What situation? That some people are town reading me or that some people are scum reading me?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Galzria on September 26, 2020, 06:52:16 pm
Galzria, do you have any reads?

Galz has been quieter in games lately, and when he does post, it's 99% anti-Robz content. You can tell I'm not bitter at all!

Only the last game! Because you were buddying me! And you WERE scum!
That's a very good point. But why is everyone giving you a Day 1 participation pass?

I thought I would still have a grudge against faust, but I seem to be over it.

I donít have a D1 participation pass, I donít think. But if I did, why would this be noteworthy to you? Is it because you know Iím Town and donít understand why what you feel should be an easy mislynch doesnít seem to be a popular opinion?

And my point was merely that I donít have any anti-Robz energy. Certainly none that he seems to believe I have. Last time around I was anti-Robz, but only because he was scum and I correctly read him for it.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: EFHW on September 26, 2020, 07:28:11 pm
This isn't about you, specifically,  it's about participation passes in general.  ADK and the IC are both defending your lower activity despite the fact that more activity is always better, with the exception of thread cluttering, of course
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Galzria on September 26, 2020, 07:33:29 pm
This isn't about you, specifically,  it's about participation passes in general.  ADK and the IC are both defending your lower activity despite the fact that more activity is always better, with the exception of thread cluttering, of course

I donít see it as defending (at least in Robz case), as commenting on its regularity - more to make the point that, if anything, itís NAI. I got the same feeling from ADKís posts, but itís possible I missed an argument that he made.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: SpaceAnemone on September 26, 2020, 07:49:00 pm
Space, do you have anything to say about anyone?

I should have things to say, but I totally forgot about this game yesterday, and only remembered today now that it's almost 1am. Have skim-read a catch-up, but it turns out I'm too sleepy for the words to be sinking in. Have written "mafia game" on my to-do list for tomorrow so I get myself back into the habit of checking f.ds :-)

Also, at least one other person mentioned not getting an email about the role PM -- is everyone else in the same boat? I haven't had an email about my last two forum PMs, which might be bad for prods this game.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: MiX on September 26, 2020, 07:53:47 pm
Space, do you have anything to say about anyone?

I should have things to say, but I totally forgot about this game yesterday, and only remembered today now that it's almost 1am. Have skim-read a catch-up, but it turns out I'm too sleepy for the words to be sinking in. Have written "mafia game" on my to-do list for tomorrow so I get myself back into the habit of checking f.ds :-)

Also, at least one other person mentioned not getting an email about the role PM -- is everyone else in the same boat? I haven't had an email about my last two forum PMs, which might be bad for prods this game.

Which is why I asked when you could've answered it :(

I didn't get any email, which is new.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Robz888 on September 26, 2020, 08:12:15 pm
Galzria, do you have any reads?

Galz has been quieter in games lately, and when he does post, it's 99% anti-Robz content. You can tell I'm not bitter at all!

Only the last game! Because you were buddying me! And you WERE scum!

I know! You had me dead to rights and my bitterness is completely irrational!
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Robz888 on September 26, 2020, 08:51:32 pm
The Galz wagon is so hilariously dumb I almost don't want to speak out against it, just to see what happens.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 26, 2020, 10:31:26 pm
This isn't about you, specifically,  it's about participation passes in general.  ADK and the IC are both defending your lower activity despite the fact that more activity is always better, with the exception of thread cluttering, of course

I donít see it as defending (at least in Robz case), as commenting on its regularity - more to make the point that, if anything, itís NAI. I got the same feeling from ADKís posts, but itís possible I missed an argument that he made.

Your assessment of my feelings is correct
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Joseph2302 on September 27, 2020, 08:54:57 am
The Galz wagon is so hilariously dumb I almost don't want to speak out against it, just to see what happens.


Agree, Galz wagon looks dumb, which make me want to give them a D1 pass
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Joseph2302 on September 27, 2020, 08:57:49 am
Three people in a row saying I'm townie is noteworthy. I'm going to guess that there's exactly one scum on that group
Well if you're right, then that means there's one scum in {EFHW, Glooble}. And I don't think it was 3 town saying it (although the laziest person was me, for just agreeing, I'm ignoring myself as I'm town)

So I kind of like where my vote is
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: MiX on September 27, 2020, 09:22:58 am
Three people in a row saying I'm townie is noteworthy. I'm going to guess that there's exactly one scum on that group
Well if you're right, then that means there's one scum in {EFHW, Glooble}. And I don't think it was 3 town saying it (although the laziest person was me, for just agreeing, I'm ignoring myself as I'm town)

So I kind of like where my vote is

Sure I'll sheep you.

Vote: EFHW
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Joseph2302 on September 27, 2020, 09:24:02 am
Three people in a row saying I'm townie is noteworthy. I'm going to guess that there's exactly one scum on that group
Well if you're right, then that means there's one scum in {EFHW, Glooble}. And I don't think it was 3 town saying it (although the laziest person was me, for just agreeing, I'm ignoring myself as I'm town)

So I kind of like where my vote is

Sure I'll sheep you.

Vote: EFHW
Seems like you're just sheeping anyone and everyone.....
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: MiX on September 27, 2020, 09:26:27 am
Seems like you're just sheeping anyone and everyone.....

You noticed!

I don't have a top scumread to tunnel on yet, so I'm just voting on my scumreads if there's wagons to follow.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: EFHW on September 27, 2020, 10:35:03 am
Seems like you're just sheeping anyone and everyone.....

You noticed!

I don't have a top scumread to tunnel on yet, so I'm just voting on my scumreads if there's wagons to follow.

Is it sheeping when two people RVS vote the same person?

Good that Joseph is paying attention, though. But his deciding his vote on me is good because I thought ADK was towny is definitely questionable.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 27, 2020, 10:40:56 am
Seems like you're just sheeping anyone and everyone.....

You noticed!

I don't have a top scumread to tunnel on yet, so I'm just voting on my scumreads if there's wagons to follow.

Is it sheeping when two people RVS vote the same person?

Good that Joseph is paying attention, though. But his deciding his vote on me is good because I thought ADK was towny is definitely questionable.

I like my vote on glooble but classifying mix and joseph's votes as "RVS" when they're clearly not is pretty scummy
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Joseph2302 on September 27, 2020, 12:56:17 pm
Seems like you're just sheeping anyone and everyone.....

You noticed!

I don't have a top scumread to tunnel on yet, so I'm just voting on my scumreads if there's wagons to follow.

Is it sheeping when two people RVS vote the same person?

Good that Joseph is paying attention, though. But his deciding his vote on me is good because I thought ADK was towny is definitely questionable.
My vote started as a RV, but now I like it as a proper vote, based on the 3 people calling ADK towny and not all being town thing
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: SpaceAnemone on September 27, 2020, 01:56:25 pm
I've tuned up my vote counter and started looking at how things are moving. Here's a current Space Count, in case anyone's interested:

Robz888 (1): Galzria
A Drowned Kernel (2): faust, Glooble
Glooble (2): Robz888, A Drowned Kernel
Dylan32 (1): Chairs
SpaceAnemone (1): Joseph2302
Galzria (1): WestCoastDidds
EFHW (1): MiX
Not Voting (4): Dylan32, EFHW, Eevee, SpaceAnemone
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: SpaceAnemone on September 27, 2020, 01:57:31 pm
After getting the vote counter going, I also started looking at where the earliest wagon formation started out. ADK is the first person to pick up a multi-vote wagon, at #97 where WCD joins faust on ADK. WCD's assessment was that ADK seemed to be displaying annoyance at people not voting. I don't quite see where that's from, tbh. The original ADK vote was from faust at #77, and was unexplained, but that's pretty common for faust.

From re-reading ADK, I'd say that they fall pretty early into the trap of focusing on what is and isn't normal MiX.

I agree with ADK's response to Eevee about it being more important for scum to live individually than for town.

EFHW's question to ADK at #102 is a bit odd, now I think about it. ADK was clearly criticizing MiX for contributing a lot of words without a lot of analysis, whereas very few people (me, Robz, faust and Dylan) have contributed fewer words than Galz. And on that tangent, I think it's fine for Robz not to say much yet as the IC, and I'm trying to make amends now, even though I'm really not a good D1 player. I think Dylan's been ill, and faust just isn't that verbose, but maybe I should double-check how much he has actually said. Anyway, back on my original point, ADK pointed the distinction out to EFHW at #104.. was that ever followed up/acknowledged?

ADK votes Glooble for a sarcastic comment about MiX being townie for sheeping the IC.

#139, another occasion where ADK directly disagrees with something Eevee says, and again, I feel that I agree more with ADK (in this case that tunnelling someone is an easy role for scum to assume, instead of being something that's hard for scum to mimic).

Aha, apparently from #154, I'm not very original in finding ADK townie. Oh well.

#157-#160: huh, more ADK-Eevee interaction around ADK's asserion that there's probably exactly one scum in the three people who found them townie, which was {EFHW, Dylan, Joseph} in that order.

Okay, so the tl;dr for that re-read is that I find ADK townie, but with an interesting amount of civil disagreement with Eevee in particular, and that I want to re-read faust.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Galzria on September 27, 2020, 02:11:52 pm
Space, your tracker (intentionally) missed Joseph voting for EFHW in #141, as the vote was formatted incorrectly (no space after colon). Iím not sure if MOD will count vote or not though.

Also, vote: Joseph
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: MiX on September 27, 2020, 02:13:11 pm
Space, your tracker (intentionally) missed Joseph voting for EFHW in #141, as the vote was formatted incorrectly (no space after colon). Iím not sure if MOD will count vote or not though.

Also, vote: Joseph

Why do you think Joseph is scum?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Eevee on September 27, 2020, 02:31:31 pm
I reread ADK, absolutely don't want to lynch them. Feels they're making a lot of analysis, while I don't agree with all of the conclusions I think that kind of player is so useful to have around.

I'm reading through individual people, looking for someone to vote for.

chairs: Fairly lurky, but I really enjoyed the long reads post even if it was mostly fluff.

Joseph: I'd expect more visibility and participation from Joseph, but the posts he have made seem towny to me. Seems to be trying to figure out the game, asking things I was wondering about too.

EFHW: Ever so slight scum points for the early mention of being scum so often lately, just feel those jokes are more likely to come from scum.

Dylan and Space: Very few posts still (for understandable reasons), hard to say yet.

faust: Surprisingly lurky, but he's the kind of player I was describing when rereading ADK, I'm hesitant to lynch but would like more from.

I guess I'll vote: chairs
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Galzria on September 27, 2020, 02:49:45 pm
Space, your tracker (intentionally) missed Joseph voting for EFHW in #141, as the vote was formatted incorrectly (no space after colon). Iím not sure if MOD will count vote or not though.

Also, vote: Joseph

Why do you think Joseph is scum?

Why don't you?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: MiX on September 27, 2020, 02:50:42 pm
Space, your tracker (intentionally) missed Joseph voting for EFHW in #141, as the vote was formatted incorrectly (no space after colon). Iím not sure if MOD will count vote or not though.

Also, vote: Joseph

Why do you think Joseph is scum?

Why don't you?

The fact that he noticed me sheeping people tells me he's trying to read the thread searching for who's scum. That's an excellent town tell for Joseph.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Joseph2302 on September 27, 2020, 02:54:20 pm
Space, your tracker (intentionally) missed Joseph voting for EFHW in #141, as the vote was formatted incorrectly (no space after colon). Iím not sure if MOD will count vote or not though.

Also, vote: Joseph
Fine
Vote: EFHW
To correct previous mistake
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Dylan32 on September 27, 2020, 03:20:30 pm
Space, your tracker (intentionally) missed Joseph voting for EFHW in #141, as the vote was formatted incorrectly (no space after colon). Iím not sure if MOD will count vote or not though.

Also, vote: Joseph

Why do you think Joseph is scum?

Why don't you?

The fact that he noticed me sheeping people tells me he's trying to read the thread searching for who's scum. That's an excellent town tell for Joseph.

I think I agree with MiX about Joseph here, but I'm a little bit torn. My gut wants to say MiX noticing that and thinking like this is towny also, but MiX can be MiXian enough that I'm wondering what the odds are scuMiX planned to sheep people early and watch for/comment on whoever noticed. MiX, why are you the way that you are? lol
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Dylan32 on September 27, 2020, 03:25:12 pm
Phone posting for like the next four days.

Not feeling good about this ADK situation that occurred. Feeling worse about the Galz situation.

Didds and MiX getting D1 passes from me

I don't think chairs ever answered someone's follow up about what Galz situation. Didds and MiX are the two people who had recently voted Galz, so you don't like what Galz had posted before that, or don't like the wagon but think the people on it are town?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: MiX on September 27, 2020, 03:42:55 pm
The fact that he noticed me sheeping people tells me he's trying to read the thread searching for who's scum. That's an excellent town tell for Joseph.

I think I agree with MiX about Joseph here, but I'm a little bit torn. My gut wants to say MiX noticing that and thinking like this is towny also, but MiX can be MiXian enough that I'm wondering what the odds are scuMiX planned to sheep people early and watch for/comment on whoever noticed. MiX, why are you the way that you are? lol

Regardless, this would still make Joseph look town, right?

I wouldn't had planned to do something different from what I usually do just so I could townread people that see it, that would be something Didds would point to and say "hmm, this doesn't seem like town!MiX", which as we all know is a death sentence for me.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: EFHW on September 27, 2020, 03:55:52 pm
Seems like you're just sheeping anyone and everyone.....

You noticed!

I don't have a top scumread to tunnel on yet, so I'm just voting on my scumreads if there's wagons to follow.

Is it sheeping when two people RVS vote the same person?

Good that Joseph is paying attention, though. But his deciding his vote on me is good because I thought ADK was towny is definitely questionable.

I like my vote on glooble but classifying mix and joseph's votes as "RVS" when they're clearly not is pretty scummy

Aren't they? I mean, Joseph's isn't anymore, but his initial reason for voting me was that I draw scum unusually often lately. MiX has been voting me since the beginning of the game. His reason was the emoji in my first post.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: MiX on September 27, 2020, 03:56:42 pm
That is most definitely not why I'm voting for you now.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: EFHW on September 27, 2020, 04:58:15 pm
EFHW's question to ADK at #102 is a bit odd, now I think about it. ADK was clearly criticizing MiX for contributing a lot of words without a lot of analysis, whereas very few people (me, Robz, faust and Dylan) have contributed fewer words than Galz. And on that tangent, I think it's fine for Robz not to say much yet as the IC, and I'm trying to make amends now, even though I'm really not a good D1 player. I think Dylan's been ill, and faust just isn't that verbose, but maybe I should double-check how much he has actually said. Anyway, back on my original point, ADK pointed the distinction out to EFHW at #104.. was that ever followed up/acknowledged?

It's not a strange question if you think of it in terms of applying pressure. I felt like ADK was pressuring MiX, using what was available. But he was defending Galz, when a reason to apply pressure was available. I didn't reply directly (technical problems when I tried), but followed up other posts soon after.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: EFHW on September 27, 2020, 04:58:37 pm
That is most definitely not why I'm voting for you now.

Do share!
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: MiX on September 27, 2020, 05:06:15 pm
That is most definitely not why I'm voting for you now.

Do share!

Okay!

Three people in a row saying I'm townie is noteworthy. I'm going to guess that there's exactly one scum on that group

This is a good case, and I think you're the scum in this group. I also don't see a difference between this game and the one where we were buddies.

Not the best reason to vote, but it's better than the Galz wagon, and I think I just scumread Glooble every D1 now, I would have to read more into that to know if I should vote there. So, you're the best vote for now.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: SpaceAnemone on September 27, 2020, 07:02:42 pm
Space, your tracker (intentionally) missed Joseph voting for EFHW in #141, as the vote was formatted incorrectly (no space after colon). Iím not sure if MOD will count vote or not though.

Also, vote: Joseph

Good catch, and sorry for not checking! I have a flag in the script header that lets me control whether to count missing spaces, so I've enabled it for this game.. guess the last one I played in didn't allow them or something?

I'll post an updated count as soon as I've re-read Glooble and decided whether I want to join the IC and my townread on there, since I should really move myself off the "Not voting" line.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 27, 2020, 07:03:01 pm
Hi hi!

Iím completely unsure where the weekend went and now I need to make dinner and whatnot and time is elusive.

I have only done a rough skim of the last couple of pages.

Space, when I said ADK was being annoyed at people not voting that was in reference to
Yes we've apparently entered some kind of nightmare dimension where we need a pre-RVS chitchat phase before we get into RVS proper

I am surprised that Joseph is being quite so low key. Same with Galzy and especially faust. But itís the weekend so itís hard to tell.  Iím also a little surprised that MiX is being so affable.

None of that is particularly important, just something I want to think more about when I have some time to focus tomorrow.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: SpaceAnemone on September 27, 2020, 07:10:41 pm
I'm finding that I really like this compelling argument from Glooble himself:

Wagons are good. So huzzah!

Vote: Glooble
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: SpaceAnemone on September 27, 2020, 07:12:18 pm
That makes the current space count:

A Drowned Kernel (2): faust, Glooble
Glooble (3): Robz888, A Drowned Kernel, SpaceAnemone
Dylan32 (1): Chairs
EFHW (2): Joseph2302, MiX
Galzria (1): WestCoastDidds
Joseph2302 (1): Galzria
Chairs (1): Eevee
Not Voting (2): Dylan32, EFHW
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: SpaceAnemone on September 27, 2020, 07:26:17 pm
Oh, and I also half-did my faust re-read earlier, and have just tidied if off now:
Faust makes a comment about dogs not being allowed to vote, and then a comment about Robz missing an 8, which I don't get.
Throws a question at Eevee in #49, about why MiX is trying too hard, which is probably useful given that Eevee isn't someone who's played a whole lot with MiX, so it may be useful to identify if Eevee's not "getting" MiX.
Then there's a longer comment about flavour.
Kind of a facetious response to MiX about trying hard, but then it was unhelpful of MiX to answer on Eevee's behalf in the first place.
Eevee himself answers at #78. This all seems like really early-game stuff to be looking back on.
More ribbing MiX at #94.
More specific Eevee interaction at #118. Is Eevee just having personal connections with everyone I decide to ISO?
Then there's a link to a cat in space. I'm all for education, but this Anemone is definitely canine! (Though chairs's post was brilliant!).
Good follow-up to ADK at #155. While I townread them, I still approve of scrutiny.
Then faust is missing after that, which is something I can relate to. I recall he has posted a VLA, though also that doesn't come into effect until Thursday. Anyway, I don't think the fact he hasn't posted as much of a volume of words as most other people is immediately concerning, which was the main thing I wanted to ascertain by re-reading.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Dylan32 on September 27, 2020, 07:40:42 pm
The fact that he noticed me sheeping people tells me he's trying to read the thread searching for who's scum. That's an excellent town tell for Joseph.

I think I agree with MiX about Joseph here, but I'm a little bit torn. My gut wants to say MiX noticing that and thinking like this is towny also, but MiX can be MiXian enough that I'm wondering what the odds are scuMiX planned to sheep people early and watch for/comment on whoever noticed. MiX, why are you the way that you are? lol

Regardless, this would still make Joseph look town, right?

I wouldn't had planned to do something different from what I usually do just so I could townread people that see it, that would be something Didds would point to and say "hmm, this doesn't seem like town!MiX", which as we all know is a death sentence for me.

Yes, I think it does.

Ok, so if you didn't come into this game planning on doing something different for the reads, why have you been sheeping other people this much so far? Since that is something that is a little different from what you usually do.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 27, 2020, 07:51:30 pm
I'm finding that I really like this compelling argument from Glooble himself:

Wagons are good. So huzzah!

Vote: Glooble

Glooble got a wagon on him and then vanished, which is another good reason to vote for glooble
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: EFHW on September 27, 2020, 08:38:03 pm
I'd like to hear why faust and Glooble are voting ADK.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: EFHW on September 27, 2020, 08:42:50 pm
I still don't find the 3 people in row theory at all compelling. And since I was first, it pertains even less to me. Three people have bought into the theory: ADK, MiX  and Joseph. One of them must be scum?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Glooble on September 27, 2020, 09:58:31 pm
I'd like to hear why faust and Glooble are voting ADK.

Because they're acting incredibly scummy. Basically they vote for MiX, make a case on MiX, I say "That case makes sense" and join them. Then Robz, the IC, says the case is bad. Immediately, ADK attacks me. Why? So that all of the "voting for MiX is scummy" arguments stick to me instead of ADK.

It's so obvious I cannot believe all of you are falling for it.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Glooble on September 27, 2020, 10:00:34 pm
I'm finding that I really like this compelling argument from Glooble himself:

Wagons are good. So huzzah!

Vote: Glooble

Glooble got a wagon on him and then vanished, which is another good reason to vote for glooble

Had a busy weekend. Bad timing I know. But look at games where I'm scum and come under pressure- I don't lurk, I divert. I usually come in swinging at somebody else, and usually not someone on my wagon cause  I know OMGUS looks suspicious. This isn't how I play as scum.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: EFHW on September 27, 2020, 10:07:53 pm
I'd like to hear why faust and Glooble are voting ADK.

Because they're acting incredibly scummy. Basically they vote for MiX, make a case on MiX, I say "That case makes sense" and join them. Then Robz, the IC, says the case is bad. Immediately, ADK attacks me. Why? So that all of the "voting for MiX is scummy" arguments stick to me instead of ADK.

It's so obvious I cannot believe all of you are falling for it.
Can you point to where this happened?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 27, 2020, 10:13:21 pm
I'd like to hear why faust and Glooble are voting ADK.

Because they're acting incredibly scummy. Basically they vote for MiX, make a case on MiX, I say "That case makes sense" and join them. Then Robz, the IC, says the case is bad. Immediately, ADK attacks me. Why? So that all of the "voting for MiX is scummy" arguments stick to me instead of ADK.

It's so obvious I cannot believe all of you are falling for it.

Robz didn't say the case on MiX was bad, he just asked people not to focus all of their attention on MiX
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: MiX on September 28, 2020, 02:52:23 am
Space, your tracker (intentionally) missed Joseph voting for EFHW in #141, as the vote was formatted incorrectly (no space after colon). Iím not sure if MOD will count vote or not though.

Also, vote: Joseph

Why do you think Joseph is scum?

Vote: Galzria, and a requote of a question, since you said you like these.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: faust on September 28, 2020, 03:06:21 am
Sorry I've not been around much. The weekend was busier than anticipated.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: faust on September 28, 2020, 03:07:49 am
I'd like to hear why faust and Glooble are voting ADK.
Oh, I thought they were reading particularly grumpy and that didn't quite seem genuine.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Joseph2302 on September 28, 2020, 03:43:25 am
I still don't find the 3 people in row theory at all compelling. And since I was first, it pertains even less to me. Three people have bought into the theory: ADK, MiX  and Joseph. One of them must be scum?
Possibly, I'm not sure about MiX
This sheeping is an easy way for scum to get on wagons, and they can continue it to get on mislynches
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: faust on September 28, 2020, 04:20:44 am
I still don't find the 3 people in row theory at all compelling. And since I was first, it pertains even less to me. Three people have bought into the theory: ADK, MiX  and Joseph. One of them must be scum?
Possibly, I'm not sure about MiX
This sheeping is an easy way for scum to get on wagons, and they can continue it to get on mislynches
said Joseph, while sheeping ADK's reasoning.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: faust on September 28, 2020, 04:22:24 am
Vote: Joseph
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: faust on September 28, 2020, 06:14:23 am
I've been thinking that this game has a notable lack of setup talk. That makes me believe that players who are likely to turn to setup talk as a way of looking active as scum are more likely to not be scum this time around. The players I feel are most likely to do so are... ADK, Space, Robz (meh).
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Glooble on September 28, 2020, 07:35:45 am

Can you point to where this happened?

Pages 4 and 5, mostly.


Robz didn't say the case on MiX was bad, he just asked people not to focus all of their attention on MiX

Yeah, but since he followed that up with a vote for me, it doesn't take a genius to put 2 and 2 together on his feelings re: MiX voters.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: MiX on September 28, 2020, 07:40:28 am

Can you point to where this happened?

Pages 4 and 5, mostly.


Robz didn't say the case on MiX was bad, he just asked people not to focus all of their attention on MiX

Yeah, but since he followed that up with a vote for me, it doesn't take a genius to put 2 and 2 together on his feelings re: MiX voters.


Because they're acting incredibly scummy. Basically they vote for MiX, make a case on MiX, I say "That case makes sense" and join them. Then Robz, the IC, says the case is bad. Immediately, ADK attacks me. Why? So that all of the "voting for MiX is scummy" arguments stick to me instead of ADK.

It's so obvious I cannot believe all of you are falling for it.

These two statements contradict each other: ADK didn't turn the arguments against you, Robz did, with his vote.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Eevee on September 28, 2020, 07:53:47 am
I've been thinking that this game has a notable lack of setup talk. That makes me believe that players who are likely to turn to setup talk as a way of looking active as scum are more likely to not be scum this time around. The players I feel are most likely to do so are... ADK, Space, Robz (meh).
And you!

I don't think there's a lot to say about the setup before we get claims, especially so because someone might inadvertently reveal something they shouldn't amidst the discussion. But then again I wasn't listed as someone who's likely to analyze the setup, so what do I know, haha.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: MiX on September 28, 2020, 07:55:16 am
It's so obvious I cannot believe all of you are falling for it.

Glooble is going hardcore against the thread, I just realized this is saying the consensus townread is obviously scum.

This is incredibly townie, seems like suicide for scum to be so opposed to something. Unless ADK's also scum, then it's a really good play. So, keep the Glooble/ADK pair in mind.

I've been thinking that this game has a notable lack of setup talk. That makes me believe that players who are likely to turn to setup talk as a way of looking active as scum are more likely to not be scum this time around. The players I feel are most likely to do so are... ADK, Space, Robz (meh).
And you!

I don't think there's a lot to say about the setup before we get claims, especially so because someone might inadvertently reveal something they shouldn't amidst the discussion. But then again I wasn't listed as someone who's likely to analyze the setup, so what do I know, haha.

There's nothing for town to say about the setup, so what we know is that scum identified this and steered away from it because they don't need to, which is a good reason to townread Space.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: faust on September 28, 2020, 08:17:01 am
I've been thinking that this game has a notable lack of setup talk. That makes me believe that players who are likely to turn to setup talk as a way of looking active as scum are more likely to not be scum this time around. The players I feel are most likely to do so are... ADK, Space, Robz (meh).
And you!

I don't think there's a lot to say about the setup before we get claims, especially so because someone might inadvertently reveal something they shouldn't amidst the discussion. But then again I wasn't listed as someone who's likely to analyze the setup, so what do I know, haha.
Yay me for making an argument that clears myself!

But really I will only say something setup-related when there is some sort of plan to be made (and I don't think that's the case here). Otherwise yes it's anti-town.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: faust on September 28, 2020, 08:17:44 am
This is incredibly townie, seems like suicide for scum to be so opposed to something.
How is that suicide?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: faust on September 28, 2020, 08:18:37 am
It's actually a fairly comfortable position for scum to be pushing a player that they know has no chance of being the exile anyways.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: MiX on September 28, 2020, 08:25:18 am
It's actually a fairly comfortable position for scum to be pushing a player that they know has no chance of being the exile anyways.

Sure doesn't seem to be helping Glooble.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 28, 2020, 08:26:44 am

Can you point to where this happened?

Pages 4 and 5, mostly.


Robz didn't say the case on MiX was bad, he just asked people not to focus all of their attention on MiX

Yeah, but since he followed that up with a vote for me, it doesn't take a genius to put 2 and 2 together on his feelings re: MiX voters.

Seems like we are already falling into the familiar pattern of directing all energy and attention toward MiX, which I am learning is at the very least anti-town, if not necessarily scum behavior. A challenge to all: Talk about any other player as much as you talk about MiX!

This is Robz's post before he votes for you, he specifically says focusing on MiX is "not necessarily scummy". He doesn't lay out why he votes for you but it's a huge leap of logic to say that Robz's attitude here is "all MiX voters are scummy"
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 28, 2020, 08:28:39 am
It's actually a fairly comfortable position for scum to be pushing a player that they know has no chance of being the exile anyways.

I would like to add that the people who said they townread me all did so after Glooble was already voting, so his choices were to double down or look like he was caving under pressure, and it's not impossible for scum to pick the first one
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: faust on September 28, 2020, 08:29:11 am
It's actually a fairly comfortable position for scum to be pushing a player that they know has no chance of being the exile anyways.

Sure doesn't seem to be helping Glooble.
Fact check: The votes on Glooble actually predate his push for ADK.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 28, 2020, 08:29:38 am
It's actually a fairly comfortable position for scum to be pushing a player that they know has no chance of being the exile anyways.

Sure doesn't seem to be helping Glooble.

This is a weird thing to say about a player that has two votes on them
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Glooble on September 28, 2020, 08:32:35 am

These two statements contradict each other: ADK didn't turn the arguments against you, Robz did, with his vote.

Yeah, and ADK jumped right in line. That's so much more a scum play than a town play. With an IC like Robz, scum cares about putting themselves in town's crosshairs by opposing them. Town sticks to their convictions. My conviction at the time was that MiX was acting scummy. I stuck to it. ADK changed their conviction to something that would make them look better.

It's totally fine to stop scumreading someone because new information is offered. That's totally different from immediately flipping when you realize you've taken a position that the IC disagrees with.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 28, 2020, 08:53:57 am

These two statements contradict each other: ADK didn't turn the arguments against you, Robz did, with his vote.

Yeah, and ADK jumped right in line. That's so much more a scum play than a town play. With an IC like Robz, scum cares about putting themselves in town's crosshairs by opposing them. Town sticks to their convictions. My conviction at the time was that MiX was acting scummy. I stuck to it. ADK changed their conviction to something that would make them look better.

It's totally fine to stop scumreading someone because new information is offered. That's totally different from immediately flipping when you realize you've taken a position that the IC disagrees with.

I am by no means townreading MiX, but your "sheeping the IC is scummy" line came off to me as the lazy sort of argument that scum goes for when they have pressure on themie

The whole "how you position yourself with respect to the IC" argument is subject to a lot of WIFOM because everyone is very aware of it. You could just as easily say that scum wants an opportunity to go against the IC because that will make them seem townie
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: EFHW on September 28, 2020, 10:00:32 am
Vote: ADK

ADK starts a wagon. I get on it. The IC votes me for getting on ADKs wagon. ADK starts pushing me as scummy for agreeing with them.

Do these sound like the actions of a town player?

Do we know why Robz voted for you? ADK's vote was part joke. I don't know what percentage.

Sheeping the IC! Super towny thing to do.

vote: glooble

You seem to be taking ADK's vote on you more personally than MiX's. Why is that? Your following him to the MiX wagon initially seems to be relevant?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Glooble on September 28, 2020, 10:24:16 am

You seem to be taking ADK's vote on you more personally than MiX's. Why is that? Your following him to the MiX wagon initially seems to be relevant?

I'm not sure. MiX's vote feels like MiX being wrong. MiX and I misread eachother most games we're both in, it's almost a meme at this point. ADK's vote feels like ADK opportunistically setting me up.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 28, 2020, 10:24:46 am
To be clear, my vote was 0% joke
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Robz888 on September 28, 2020, 10:47:04 am
I've been thinking that this game has a notable lack of setup talk. That makes me believe that players who are likely to turn to setup talk as a way of looking active as scum are more likely to not be scum this time around. The players I feel are most likely to do so are... ADK, Space, Robz (meh).

Not really sure any part of this holds up. Well, maybe the space part. Space is on of those players IMO that just sounds different as scum, not sure whether they have yet figured out how to mimic it but in any case Iím reading space as town.

Who wants to join me in quick lynching the SK?

Vote: Joseph
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 28, 2020, 10:59:01 am
Whatís the argument on Jospeh?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Eevee on September 28, 2020, 11:41:04 am
Why are we voting Joseph?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: EFHW on September 28, 2020, 12:03:40 pm

You seem to be taking ADK's vote on you more personally than MiX's. Why is that? Your following him to the MiX wagon initially seems to be relevant?

I'm not sure. MiX's vote feels like MiX being wrong. MiX and I misread eachother most games we're both in, it's almost a meme at this point. ADK's vote feels like ADK opportunistically setting me up.

When ADK voted MiX, they didn't know you would follow. Once you did, Robz took it in his head, we don't know why, to vote for you. Then MiX followed. Then ADK. Do I have that right? When did ADK create the opportunity to set you up? I think your MiX vote struck several people as scummy, including ADK. They did do a bit of a 180, but there was no reason to expect them to townread you particularly. It seems to me like Robz set you up, not ADK. Or maybe he was actually setting up MiX and ADK. Sheeping the IC can be pretty scummy, so you do have that argument against them both.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: faust on September 28, 2020, 12:05:11 pm
Why are we asking questions about why we are voting for Joseph?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: MiX on September 28, 2020, 12:06:10 pm
Why are we asking questions about why we are voting for Joseph?

Why are you asking this question about asking questions about voting for Joseph?

Is anyone other than Robz scumreading Joseph?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 28, 2020, 12:10:57 pm
Why are we asking questions about why we are voting for Joseph?

Cause Robs is calling for the quickxile
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: faust on September 28, 2020, 12:14:08 pm
Why are we asking questions about why we are voting for Joseph?

Why are you asking this question about asking questions about voting for Joseph?
I am expressing my frustration that people cannot accept the fact that sometimes you don't want to give an explanation. Why not let people clarify in their own time?

Is anyone other than Robz scumreading Joseph?
Well, I'm voting for them, make of that what you will.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Joseph2302 on September 28, 2020, 12:22:52 pm
I've been thinking that this game has a notable lack of setup talk. That makes me believe that players who are likely to turn to setup talk as a way of looking active as scum are more likely to not be scum this time around. The players I feel are most likely to do so are... ADK, Space, Robz (meh).

Not really sure any part of this holds up. Well, maybe the space part. Space is on of those players IMO that just sounds different as scum, not sure whether they have yet figured out how to mimic it but in any case Iím reading space as town.

Who wants to join me in quick lynching the SK?

Vote: Joseph
Bad idea
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Joseph2302 on September 28, 2020, 12:23:41 pm
Why are we asking questions about why we are voting for Joseph?
Because it's a bad idea from nowhere.
Which to be honest sums up most the wagons so far this game- built off nothing and people just jumping on them
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 28, 2020, 12:25:09 pm
Jospeh, why is it a bad idea? You have a better idea?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: chairs on September 28, 2020, 12:52:47 pm
Phone posting for like the next four days.

Not feeling good about this ADK situation that occurred. Feeling worse about the Galz situation.

Didds and MiX getting D1 passes from me

What situation? That some people are town reading me or that some people are scum reading me?

The flurry of attention.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: chairs on September 28, 2020, 01:03:46 pm
Vote: glooble

I think the adk glooble interaction has me ready to vote one of them off the island and I think glooble has come off scummier in the interactions, personally.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Glooble on September 28, 2020, 01:14:36 pm
Why are we asking questions about why we are voting for Joseph?
Because it's a bad idea from nowhere.
Which to be honest sums up most the wagons so far this game- built off nothing and people just jumping on them

Those are helpful wagons to look back on later, if they get big enough.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Swowl on September 28, 2020, 02:15:40 pm
Vote Count 1.3:

Glooble (3): ADK, Space, chairs
Joseph (3): Galzria, faust, Robz888
Galrzria (2): WCD, MiX
ADK (1): Glooble
EFHW (1): Joseph
chairs(1): Eevee

Not Voting (2): Dylan, EFHW

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 ends on September 30th at 10pm Forum Time.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Galzria on September 28, 2020, 02:33:14 pm
Is anyone other than Robz scumreading Joseph?
Well, I'm voting for them, make of that what you will.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Galzria on September 28, 2020, 02:35:02 pm
It's actually a fairly comfortable position for scum to be pushing a player that they know has no chance of being the exile anyways.

Sure doesn't seem to be helping Glooble.

Hasn't hurt him either.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Galzria on September 28, 2020, 02:46:39 pm
Whatís the argument on Jospeh?

I'm voting Joseph because of the evolution of his "reads" - voting for EFHW for "RVS", that turns into 'leaving his vote there for real reasons' - those 'reasons' being a purchase into the belief that 3 consecutive people expressing town reads on ADK could not themselves all be town, and EFHW (for unexplained reasons) is the scummiest of those 3 people - sorry, 2 people, as Joseph himself was one of the 3 (and thus would not consider himself). The other player, Glooble, has a few votes himself with plenty of conversation happening around him, yet Joseph has been completely silent on that topic. Seems to me that if Joseph genuinely believed that there were scum amongst {EFHW, Glooble}, he would be more interested in considering the arguments surrounding both players in that pair.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: EFHW on September 28, 2020, 06:13:23 pm
Vote: glooble

I think the adk glooble interaction has me ready to vote one of them off the island and I think glooble has come off scummier in the interactions, personally.

Because he has been more emotional, or some other reason? And why are you so certain one is scum?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: EFHW on September 28, 2020, 06:15:25 pm
At this point, I could vote for anyone except myself and Robz. Also, Galz made a good point about Joseph, so maybe not him either.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: MiX on September 28, 2020, 06:26:41 pm
At this point, I could vote for anyone except myself and Robz. Also, Galz made a good point about Joseph, so maybe not him either.

I don't think this game is anywhere near voting-for-everyone kind of uselessness.

Vote: EFHW
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Dylan32 on September 28, 2020, 06:55:21 pm
Whatís the argument on Jospeh?

I'm voting Joseph because of the evolution of his "reads" - voting for EFHW for "RVS", that turns into 'leaving his vote there for real reasons' - those 'reasons' being a purchase into the belief that 3 consecutive people expressing town reads on ADK could not themselves all be town, and EFHW (for unexplained reasons) is the scummiest of those 3 people - sorry, 2 people, as Joseph himself was one of the 3 (and thus would not consider himself). The other player, Glooble, has a few votes himself with plenty of conversation happening around him, yet Joseph has been completely silent on that topic. Seems to me that if Joseph genuinely believed that there were scum amongst {EFHW, Glooble}, he would be more interested in considering the arguments surrounding both players in that pair.

Glooble wasn't the 3rd in that sequence of ADK townreads. Glooble was voting for ADK, then EFHW townread, I agreed, then Joseph agreed.

Whatís the argument on Jospeh?

I'm voting Joseph because of the evolution of his "reads" - voting for EFHW for "RVS", that turns into 'leaving his vote there for real reasons' - those 'reasons' being a purchase into the belief that 3 consecutive people expressing town reads on ADK could not themselves all be town, and EFHW (for unexplained reasons) is the scummiest of those 3 people - sorry, 2 people, as Joseph himself was one of the 3 (and thus would not consider himself). The other player, Glooble, has a few votes himself with plenty of conversation happening around him, yet Joseph has been completely silent on that topic. Seems to me that if Joseph genuinely believed that there were scum amongst {EFHW, Glooble}, he would be more interested in considering the arguments surrounding both players in that pair.

It's interesting that EFHW knows it's ADK vs glooble, but then says galz made a good point about Joseph and the list of people who expressed townreads on ADK while glooble wasn't even actually in that group. Altogether, EFHW's last couple posts are scummy enough to get me off the not voting line.

Vote: EFHW
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Joseph2302 on September 28, 2020, 07:01:53 pm
Whatís the argument on Jospeh?

I'm voting Joseph because of the evolution of his "reads" - voting for EFHW for "RVS", that turns into 'leaving his vote there for real reasons' - those 'reasons' being a purchase into the belief that 3 consecutive people expressing town reads on ADK could not themselves all be town, and EFHW (for unexplained reasons) is the scummiest of those 3 people - sorry, 2 people, as Joseph himself was one of the 3 (and thus would not consider himself). The other player, Glooble, has a few votes himself with plenty of conversation happening around him, yet Joseph has been completely silent on that topic. Seems to me that if Joseph genuinely believed that there were scum amongst {EFHW, Glooble}, he would be more interested in considering the arguments surrounding both players in that pair.
Well Glooble has had one of these random wagons on them  and that makes me feel better about them (because it does seem to me like people are just piling onto whoever gets a vote or 2)
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Joseph2302 on September 28, 2020, 07:02:33 pm
At this point, I could vote for anyone except myself and Robz. Also, Galz made a good point about Joseph, so maybe not him either.

I don't think this game is anywhere near voting-for-everyone kind of uselessness.

Vote: EFHW
Agree, way too early to start the whatever to get a lynch voting
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Galzria on September 28, 2020, 07:03:53 pm
Whatís the argument on Jospeh?

I'm voting Joseph because of the evolution of his "reads" - voting for EFHW for "RVS", that turns into 'leaving his vote there for real reasons' - those 'reasons' being a purchase into the belief that 3 consecutive people expressing town reads on ADK could not themselves all be town, and EFHW (for unexplained reasons) is the scummiest of those 3 people - sorry, 2 people, as Joseph himself was one of the 3 (and thus would not consider himself). The other player, Glooble, has a few votes himself with plenty of conversation happening around him, yet Joseph has been completely silent on that topic. Seems to me that if Joseph genuinely believed that there were scum amongst {EFHW, Glooble}, he would be more interested in considering the arguments surrounding both players in that pair.

Glooble wasn't the 3rd in that sequence of ADK townreads. Glooble was voting for ADK, then EFHW townread, I agreed, then Joseph agreed.

Whatís the argument on Jospeh?

I'm voting Joseph because of the evolution of his "reads" - voting for EFHW for "RVS", that turns into 'leaving his vote there for real reasons' - those 'reasons' being a purchase into the belief that 3 consecutive people expressing town reads on ADK could not themselves all be town, and EFHW (for unexplained reasons) is the scummiest of those 3 people - sorry, 2 people, as Joseph himself was one of the 3 (and thus would not consider himself). The other player, Glooble, has a few votes himself with plenty of conversation happening around him, yet Joseph has been completely silent on that topic. Seems to me that if Joseph genuinely believed that there were scum amongst {EFHW, Glooble}, he would be more interested in considering the arguments surrounding both players in that pair.

It's interesting that EFHW knows it's ADK vs glooble, but then says galz made a good point about Joseph and the list of people who expressed townreads on ADK while glooble wasn't even actually in that group. Altogether, EFHW's last couple posts are scummy enough to get me off the not voting line.

Vote: EFHW

Looking back, youíre correct. I clearly didnít check my sources:

Three people in a row saying I'm townie is noteworthy. I'm going to guess that there's exactly one scum on that group
Well if you're right, then that means there's one scum in {EFHW, Glooble}. And I don't think it was 3 town saying it (although the laziest person was me, for just agreeing, I'm ignoring myself as I'm town)

So I kind of like where my vote is

My point is still valid, however: Joseph has decided thereís scum within the group that Townread ADK earlier - he dismisses himself, arbitrarily picks EFHW, and never comments on or discusses the other player (you, or in his mind, Glooble).
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Joseph2302 on September 28, 2020, 07:04:41 pm
Whatís the argument on Jospeh?

I'm voting Joseph because of the evolution of his "reads" - voting for EFHW for "RVS", that turns into 'leaving his vote there for real reasons' - those 'reasons' being a purchase into the belief that 3 consecutive people expressing town reads on ADK could not themselves all be town, and EFHW (for unexplained reasons) is the scummiest of those 3 people - sorry, 2 people, as Joseph himself was one of the 3 (and thus would not consider himself). The other player, Glooble, has a few votes himself with plenty of conversation happening around him, yet Joseph has been completely silent on that topic. Seems to me that if Joseph genuinely believed that there were scum amongst {EFHW, Glooble}, he would be more interested in considering the arguments surrounding both players in that pair.

Glooble wasn't the 3rd in that sequence of ADK townreads. Glooble was voting for ADK, then EFHW townread, I agreed, then Joseph agreed.

Yes this is why I wasn't on Glooble
And as for Dylan, they've not made many posts for me to analyse right now

Although this post seems more towny than EFHW's vote for anyone post

PPE: 1
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 28, 2020, 08:15:12 pm
Jospeh, why is it a bad idea? You have a better idea?

I imagine joseph has better ideas than exiling himself
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 28, 2020, 08:16:35 pm
Phone posting for like the next four days.

Not feeling good about this ADK situation that occurred. Feeling worse about the Galz situation.

Didds and MiX getting D1 passes from me

What situation? That some people are town reading me or that some people are scum reading me?

The flurry of attention.

Do you think the amount of attention given to me today is indicative of my alignment? Do you think that it's indicative of anyone else's alignment?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 28, 2020, 08:49:45 pm
Jospeh, why is it a bad idea? You have a better idea?

I imagine joseph has better ideas than exiling himself

Well, one would think but he's not really making any sweet arguments
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: EFHW on September 28, 2020, 09:08:30 pm
At this point, I could vote for anyone except myself and Robz. Also, Galz made a good point about Joseph, so maybe not him either.

I don't think this game is anywhere near voting-for-everyone kind of uselessness.

Vote: EFHW
Agree, way too early to start the whatever to get a lynch voting
Isn't deadline in two days?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: EFHW on September 28, 2020, 09:20:22 pm
Sorry, we have so many sets of 3s going,  I didn't notice Galzria's mistake. So a few less scum points for Joseph.

I think the recent votes on me are scummy. Why shouldn't I state that almost everyone is striking me as scummy enough for a day 1 vote?

Going with vote: MiX.  He would try hardest to exile me on Day 1 bc he sees me as most vulnerable then, which is probably true since I am more useful later on. The initial RVSing could have been a smokescreen enabling him to slide into a "real" scumread on me without having much of reason.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: EFHW on September 28, 2020, 09:39:04 pm
I see that I wasn't clear, and it sounded like I wanted to vote randomly.  That wasn't what I meant at all. I mean that I don't have town reads right now. Almost all the active people all have something that gives me pause and the people lying low are scummy for doing that.

And even if I had meant what it sounded like, that's more anti town than scummy and it makes no sense for me to say that as scum.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: faust on September 29, 2020, 01:06:18 am
Going with vote: MiX.  He would try hardest to exile me on Day 1 bc he sees me as most vulnerable then, which is probably true since I am more useful later on. The initial RVSing could have been a smokescreen enabling him to slide into a "real" scumread on me without having much of reason.
Why would MiX see you as most vulnerable and others wouldn't?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Dylan32 on September 29, 2020, 01:12:27 am
Whatís the argument on Jospeh?

I'm voting Joseph because of the evolution of his "reads" - voting for EFHW for "RVS", that turns into 'leaving his vote there for real reasons' - those 'reasons' being a purchase into the belief that 3 consecutive people expressing town reads on ADK could not themselves all be town, and EFHW (for unexplained reasons) is the scummiest of those 3 people - sorry, 2 people, as Joseph himself was one of the 3 (and thus would not consider himself). The other player, Glooble, has a few votes himself with plenty of conversation happening around him, yet Joseph has been completely silent on that topic. Seems to me that if Joseph genuinely believed that there were scum amongst {EFHW, Glooble}, he would be more interested in considering the arguments surrounding both players in that pair.

Glooble wasn't the 3rd in that sequence of ADK townreads. Glooble was voting for ADK, then EFHW townread, I agreed, then Joseph agreed.

Yes this is why I wasn't on Glooble
And as for Dylan, they've not made many posts for me to analyse right now

Although this post seems more towny than EFHW's vote for anyone post

PPE: 1

Wait, if that's why you weren't on glooble, but at the time (and I didn't realize this had happened until Galz quoted it):

Three people in a row saying I'm townie is noteworthy. I'm going to guess that there's exactly one scum on that group
Well if you're right, then that means there's one scum in {EFHW, Glooble}. And I don't think it was 3 town saying it (although the laziest person was me, for just agreeing, I'm ignoring myself as I'm town)

So I kind of like where my vote is

You also mistakenly thought it was EFHW/Glooble as the other two in that group, and in fact is probably where Galz got those names from, which means that while Galz's logic was based on falsehood, it was a shared wrong assumption that the two of you made. But you just acted like the thing that you first and then Galz messed up was something you knew was wrong all along in order to explain your actions. I can't say this in strong enough terms:

Vote: Joseph
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Dylan32 on September 29, 2020, 01:17:43 am
It's late and I have a headache, so while it wasn't long, I'm going to tl;dr my last post for clarity on the salient point.

I pointed out that Galz messed up the group of people who townread ADK back to back to back in trying to read Joseph. Joseph said Glooble not really being in that group explained why he wasn't suspicious of Glooble, but Joseph was originally the first person to put Glooble in that group to begin with by mistake, so he literally was just caught in a lie regarding his motives behind his reads/actions.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Eevee on September 29, 2020, 03:56:52 am
Ooh, thatís actually a pretty convincing argument from Dylan as far as d1 cases go. I can never read joseph, so i like that this is more about the actions than the man.

vote: joseph
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: faust on September 29, 2020, 04:05:03 am
Ooh, thatís actually a pretty convincing argument from Dylan as far as d1 cases go. I can never read joseph, so i like that this is more about the actions than the man.

vote: joseph
I think Joseph uses they pronouns, so I would suggest not referring to them as a man.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Joseph2302 on September 29, 2020, 04:48:02 am
Ooh, thatís actually a pretty convincing argument from Dylan as far as d1 cases go. I can never read joseph, so i like that this is more about the actions than the man.

vote: joseph
I think Joseph uses they pronouns, so I would suggest not referring to them as a man.
I don't care to be honest. I just use "they" as default for everyone so I don't have to think about it
He is perfectly fine for me
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: MiX on September 29, 2020, 04:49:00 am
Sorry, we have so many sets of 3s going,  I didn't notice Galzria's mistake. So a few less scum points for Joseph.

I think the recent votes on me are scummy. Why shouldn't I state that almost everyone is striking me as scummy enough for a day 1 vote?

Going with vote: MiX.  He would try hardest to exile me on Day 1 bc he sees me as most vulnerable then, which is probably true since I am more useful later on. The initial RVSing could have been a smokescreen enabling him to slide into a "real" scumread on me without having much of reason.

Well, this sure is a thing I said in our scumchat, yeah. It's precisely why I'm pushing you today. I still think you're scum, so clearly we should exile you now as it's the easiest time to exile scum.

This makes sense even if I'm town, so I don't understand the scumread.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Joseph2302 on September 29, 2020, 04:50:20 am
It's late and I have a headache, so while it wasn't long, I'm going to tl;dr my last post for clarity on the salient point.

I pointed out that Galz messed up the group of people who townread ADK back to back to back in trying to read Joseph. Joseph said Glooble not really being in that group explained why he wasn't suspicious of Glooble, but Joseph was originally the first person to put Glooble in that group to begin with by mistake, so he literally was just caught in a lie regarding his motives behind his reads/actions.
It was late and I made a mistake. Everything I said about Glooble and Dylan was what I thought, the fact I temporarily forgot which one of them was on the set of people- so what? Mistakes happen

I had about 100 things on yesterday, and this game really was priority 100

PPE: 1
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Eevee on September 29, 2020, 05:12:46 am
Ooh, thatís actually a pretty convincing argument from Dylan as far as d1 cases go. I can never read joseph, so i like that this is more about the actions than the man.

vote: joseph
I think Joseph uses they pronouns, so I would suggest not referring to them as a man.
This I was not aware of, thanks and apologies to Joseph!
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: EFHW on September 29, 2020, 06:03:34 am
Going with vote: MiX.  He would try hardest to exile me on Day 1 bc he sees me as most vulnerable then, which is probably true since I am more useful later on. The initial RVSing could have been a smokescreen enabling him to slide into a "real" scumread on me without having much of reason.
Why would MiX see you as most vulnerable and others wouldn't?
Because in our last game we were partners and he said he thought I usually get exiled Day 1.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: MiX on September 29, 2020, 06:07:06 am
Going with vote: MiX.  He would try hardest to exile me on Day 1 bc he sees me as most vulnerable then, which is probably true since I am more useful later on. The initial RVSing could have been a smokescreen enabling him to slide into a "real" scumread on me without having much of reason.
Why would MiX see you as most vulnerable and others wouldn't?
Because in our last game we were partners and he said he thought I usually get exiled Day 1.

That was as scum, not just in general. In general you're unexilable, which leaks into being hard to exile when you're scum, but you're more vulnerable D1.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: EFHW on September 29, 2020, 06:12:50 am
Oh, I didn't know that as scum part. But you flipped from a friendly RVS tunnel to a real one based just on ADK's questionable comment the one of me, Dylan, Joseph is probably scum?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: MiX on September 29, 2020, 06:15:26 am
Oh, I didn't know that as scum part. But you flipped from a friendly RVS tunnel to a real one based just on ADK's questionable comment the one of me, Dylan, Joseph is probably scum?

Three people in a row saying I'm townie is noteworthy. I'm going to guess that there's exactly one scum on that group

This is a good case, and I think you're the scum in this group. I also don't see a difference between this game and the one where we were buddies.

Not the best reason to vote, but it's better than the Galz wagon, and I think I just scumread Glooble every D1 now, I would have to read more into that to know if I should vote there. So, you're the best vote for now.

It wasn't just that, there's a bunch of things I saw from you that look like they come from scum. Unfortunately, I'm not thinking straight this game, so I don't know if it's what scum!you would do. I still think you're out of touch with what town would be thinking, and generally coming at things from a different perspective than the thread signifies having more information than the rest of us.

It's close to deadline, I'll try to reread this and one of your scum games (you have a lot of them!) and see if I'm right or wrong.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: EFHW on September 29, 2020, 06:16:25 am
Unfortunately for our scumhunting, it is a very Joseph thing to make a scumread and vote without thinking about it much.

PPE MiX
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: EFHW on September 29, 2020, 06:27:01 am
@MiX,  I think you should post all the other things that seemed scummy.

Your observation of my attitude towards town is correct.  But that's just how I am in general. Low key contrarian. Standing off a bit, especially early on. Not on purpose, and I could make up reasons, but I think it's an Ok approach. 
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: MiX on September 29, 2020, 06:43:34 am
Hi and also my bedtime 🌙.

I felt like thinking about adding the emoji is a feeling scum have more than town on average, trying to make their posts better. Of course, it's also something I do when I'm sleepy.

Galz is hanging back more than Iíd guess.

Galz has been a bit of a lurker in the past few games I've been in with him. He's not someone I expect to be very active D1

PPE of course he posts as I'm writing this

How did you decide to put pressure on MiX but defend Galz?

"How" and not "Why" felt odd with me. The question's a weird shade on ADK that still feels wrong to me, even after the explanation.

I get that.  But the day had hardly begun, and MiX was being encouraged to do his tunnel thing. But in any case, his voting me is starting to feel less like friendly RVS and more like something else.  Not sure what.

If it's not RVS, then it's...not RVS? What else can it be? I don't think I was hiding that my vote was due to reads at that moment.

Hey, heads up my computer crashed and I'm still fixing that (I mean "new OS" crashed, not "reboot" crashed). I literally haven't looked at my QT yet but I thought I'd note that I will be able to play.

I just realized - this is "pure chairs" since he didn't know his alignment.

Scum would've known their alignment, so pure = town.

Galzria, do you have any reads?

Galz has been quieter in games lately, and when he does post, it's 99% anti-Robz content. You can tell I'm not bitter at all!

Only the last game! Because you were buddying me! And you WERE scum!
That's a very good point. But why is everyone giving you a Day 1 participation pass?

I thought I would still have a grudge against faust, but I seem to be over it.

You don't have a grudge against faust since there was a full game between that and now. Also, people have been giving Galz a D1 participation pass for a while. And town!you would have something else to say about faust, I think.

This isn't about you, specifically,  it's about participation passes in general.  ADK and the IC are both defending your lower activity despite the fact that more activity is always better, with the exception of thread cluttering, of course

Not scummy, but I'd like to point out that Galz is a very viable misexile when people push him on activity. So, don't do it :P


That's it I think. A lot of weird pings coming off you, and that's what scum!EFHW does to me, typically anyway.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Glooble on September 29, 2020, 08:36:59 am
That's E-2 for Joseph, by the way. I'm ready to vote there but I'd like to give Joseph a chance to defend themself. Dylan's argument seems more substantial than anything anyone else has on anyone else right now.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: EFHW on September 29, 2020, 09:05:45 am
Hi and also my bedtime 🌙.

I felt like thinking about adding the emoji is a feeling scum have more than town on average, trying to make their posts better. Of course, it's also something I do when I'm sleepy.

This is random. Anyway, the emoji popped up in my autocorrect, so it was random too, to me.

Quote
Galz is hanging back more than Iíd guess.

Galz has been a bit of a lurker in the past few games I've been in with him. He's not someone I expect to be very active D1

PPE of course he posts as I'm writing this

How did you decide to put pressure on MiX but defend Galz?

"How" and not "Why" felt odd with me. The question's a weird shade on ADK that still feels wrong to me, even after the explanation.

I was putting some pressure on ADK because he was being inconsistent. "How" is less critical than "why" and was more what I was interested in. A minor distinction, to be sure.

Quote
I get that.  But the day had hardly begun, and MiX was being encouraged to do his tunnel thing. But in any case, his voting me is starting to feel less like friendly RVS and more like something else.  Not sure what.

If it's not RVS, then it's...not RVS? What else can it be? I don't think I was hiding that my vote was due to reads at that moment.

Like I said later, I thought you could be trying to create feeling of inevitability about my exile.

Quote
Hey, heads up my computer crashed and I'm still fixing that (I mean "new OS" crashed, not "reboot" crashed). I literally haven't looked at my QT yet but I thought I'd note that I will be able to play.

I just realized - this is "pure chairs" since he didn't know his alignment.

Scum would've known their alignment, so pure = town.

I don't get this. It's about chairs not knowing his alignment, not me not knowing it (though I don't).

Quote
Galzria, do you have any reads?

Galz has been quieter in games lately, and when he does post, it's 99% anti-Robz content. You can tell I'm not bitter at all!

Only the last game! Because you were buddying me! And you WERE scum!
That's a very good point. But why is everyone giving you a Day 1 participation pass?

I thought I would still have a grudge against faust, but I seem to be over it.

You don't have a grudge against faust since there was a full game between that and now. Also, people have been giving Galz a D1 participation pass for a while. And town!you would have something else to say about faust, I think.

How do you know why I do or don't have a grudge? I was TOWN in that game, btw, as was faust.

snipping last one since you didn't think it was scummy.

Quote
That's it I think. A lot of weird pings coming off you, and that's what scum!EFHW does to me, typically anyway.

At what point did you indicate your read had changed from RVS? I didn't know it until after I brought it up specifically.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: EFHW on September 29, 2020, 09:07:31 am
*they were being inconsistent. Sorry ADK.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 29, 2020, 09:22:54 am
Whatís the argument on Jospeh?

I'm voting Joseph because of the evolution of his "reads" - voting for EFHW for "RVS", that turns into 'leaving his vote there for real reasons' - those 'reasons' being a purchase into the belief that 3 consecutive people expressing town reads on ADK could not themselves all be town, and EFHW (for unexplained reasons) is the scummiest of those 3 people - sorry, 2 people, as Joseph himself was one of the 3 (and thus would not consider himself). The other player, Glooble, has a few votes himself with plenty of conversation happening around him, yet Joseph has been completely silent on that topic. Seems to me that if Joseph genuinely believed that there were scum amongst {EFHW, Glooble}, he would be more interested in considering the arguments surrounding both players in that pair.

Glooble wasn't the 3rd in that sequence of ADK townreads. Glooble was voting for ADK, then EFHW townread, I agreed, then Joseph agreed.

Yes this is why I wasn't on Glooble
And as for Dylan, they've not made many posts for me to analyse right now

Although this post seems more towny than EFHW's vote for anyone post

PPE: 1

Wait, if that's why you weren't on glooble, but at the time (and I didn't realize this had happened until Galz quoted it):

Three people in a row saying I'm townie is noteworthy. I'm going to guess that there's exactly one scum on that group
Well if you're right, then that means there's one scum in {EFHW, Glooble}. And I don't think it was 3 town saying it (although the laziest person was me, for just agreeing, I'm ignoring myself as I'm town)

So I kind of like where my vote is

You also mistakenly thought it was EFHW/Glooble as the other two in that group, and in fact is probably where Galz got those names from, which means that while Galz's logic was based on falsehood, it was a shared wrong assumption that the two of you made. But you just acted like the thing that you first and then Galz messed up was something you knew was wrong all along in order to explain your actions. I can't say this in strong enough terms:

Vote: Joseph

This would be a stronger argument if joseph had been voting for glooble, but the fact that he was voting for EFHW makes it plausible that he mixed up who the other person was
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 29, 2020, 09:28:48 am
Iím still playing catch up a bit....but my quick takes are that itís odd to me that Jospeh isnít doing more in terms of defense. I get that this is priority 100, but X-2.....

EFHW and MiX are playing their own game. Itís not distracting, necessarily, but itís not engaging with much beyond one another so itís generating posts without much relevant content. Itís maybe too laid back for one to be scum because they arenít trying to convince anyone else, but still.

Dylan has made the best argument so far in regard to Joseph. Earlier faust grumbled about wanting to keep reasons close to the vest. Fair enough, since that takes away the topoi for defense but also hard to rally around.

Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: MiX on September 29, 2020, 09:36:18 am
I don't think Joseph is scum. If I had to call it, I'd say the scumteam's EFHW/Glooble/Galzria, and these are whom I would like to exile today.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Robz888 on September 29, 2020, 09:39:32 am
I appreciate Dylan's effort, but Joseph's mixup seems fairly innocent.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Robz888 on September 29, 2020, 09:40:29 am
Iím still playing catch up a bit....but my quick takes are that itís odd to me that Jospeh isnít doing more in terms of defense. I get that this is priority 100, but X-2.....

EFHW and MiX are playing their own game. Itís not distracting, necessarily, but itís not engaging with much beyond one another so itís generating posts without much relevant content. Itís maybe too laid back for one to be scum because they arenít trying to convince anyone else, but still.

Dylan has made the best argument so far in regard to Joseph. Earlier faust grumbled about wanting to keep reasons close to the vest. Fair enough, since that takes away the topoi for defense but also hard to rally around.

This is a pretty nothing post, actually. Scummy!

Vote: WestCoastDidds
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: MiX on September 29, 2020, 09:43:33 am
Iím still playing catch up a bit....but my quick takes are that itís odd to me that Jospeh isnít doing more in terms of defense. I get that this is priority 100, but X-2.....

EFHW and MiX are playing their own game. Itís not distracting, necessarily, but itís not engaging with much beyond one another so itís generating posts without much relevant content. Itís maybe too laid back for one to be scum because they arenít trying to convince anyone else, but still.

Dylan has made the best argument so far in regard to Joseph. Earlier faust grumbled about wanting to keep reasons close to the vest. Fair enough, since that takes away the topoi for defense but also hard to rally around.

This is a pretty nothing post, actually. Scummy!

Vote: WestCoastDidds


Vote: Robz
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: EFHW on September 29, 2020, 09:53:18 am
Iím still playing catch up a bit....but my quick takes are that itís odd to me that Jospeh isnít doing more in terms of defense. I get that this is priority 100, but X-2.....

EFHW and MiX are playing their own game. Itís not distracting, necessarily, but itís not engaging with much beyond one another so itís generating posts without much relevant content. Itís maybe too laid back for one to be scum because they arenít trying to convince anyone else, but still.

Dylan has made the best argument so far in regard to Joseph. Earlier faust grumbled about wanting to keep reasons close to the vest. Fair enough, since that takes away the topoi for defense but also hard to rally around.

This is a pretty nothing post, actually. Scummy!

Vote: WestCoastDidds


It's also scummy because several people, me, Robz, MiX and ADK, have spoken up against the Joseph theory but she doesn't acknowledge that. And I have interacted with ADK, Galzria and Glooble in addition to MiX.

vote: Didds
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: chairs on September 29, 2020, 10:01:45 am
Vote: didds

Yeah that's a big ol nothing burger.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: MiX on September 29, 2020, 10:08:31 am
That post says Didds is town, not scum.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 29, 2020, 10:25:02 am
Oh, friends... come on. There is nothing about that post that says "here is my well thought out contribution to all that is going on." I said it was impressions, and it is impressions.  Robz doesn't know me well (or maybe he does but just wishes I was a didds of substance...alas) so I can see why he would find it scummy.

But what is really interesting is the EFHW willingness to jump so quickly based on almost nothing other than noticing that she has been in the weeds with MiX. I didn't say that you had only interacted with MiX so saying that I failed to acknowledge the other people isn't compelling. I feel pretty sure that more having a discussion of the scumminess or not of a moon emoji is exactly the kind of thing you'd find suspect if you weren't the one doing it.

Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 29, 2020, 10:25:41 am
That post says Didds is town, not scum.

Yeah, if I am scum I try to have something to say...
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: EFHW on September 29, 2020, 11:29:19 am
Oh, friends... come on. There is nothing about that post that says "here is my well thought out contribution to all that is going on." I said it was impressions, and it is impressions.  Robz doesn't know me well (or maybe he does but just wishes I was a didds of substance...alas) so I can see why he would find it scummy.

But what is really interesting is the EFHW willingness to jump so quickly based on almost nothing other than noticing that she has been in the weeds with MiX. I didn't say that you had only interacted with MiX so saying that I failed to acknowledge the other people isn't compelling. I feel pretty sure that more having a discussion of the scumminess or not of a moon emoji is exactly the kind of thing you'd find suspect if you weren't the one doing it.

Could be. But my main point was your joining the Joseph wagon and uncritically accepting Dylan's theory without acknowledging four different people arguing against it.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: MiX on September 29, 2020, 11:40:46 am
Oh, friends... come on. There is nothing about that post that says "here is my well thought out contribution to all that is going on." I said it was impressions, and it is impressions.  Robz doesn't know me well (or maybe he does but just wishes I was a didds of substance...alas) so I can see why he would find it scummy.

But what is really interesting is the EFHW willingness to jump so quickly based on almost nothing other than noticing that she has been in the weeds with MiX. I didn't say that you had only interacted with MiX so saying that I failed to acknowledge the other people isn't compelling. I feel pretty sure that more having a discussion of the scumminess or not of a moon emoji is exactly the kind of thing you'd find suspect if you weren't the one doing it.

Could be. But my main point was your joining the Joseph wagon and uncritically accepting Dylan's theory without acknowledging four different people arguing against it.

Didds didn't vote Joseph.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Glooble on September 29, 2020, 11:52:35 am
Three people in a row saying I'm townie is noteworthy. I'm going to guess that there's exactly one scum on that group
Well if you're right, then that means there's one scum in {EFHW, Glooble}. And I don't think it was 3 town saying it (although the laziest person was me, for just agreeing, I'm ignoring myself as I'm town)

So I kind of like where my vote is

I think there's more to unpack here. Joseph lists me as one of the players finding ADK townie while I am voting for ADK and honestly tunneling them pretty hard. It's a fundamental misreading of the game. Then Galz builds a case on Joseph based on this misreading without pointing it out (and in fact, further solidifying the false narrative.) It's a bizarre mistake for one player to make and an even more bizzare mistake for two players to make and no one to notice until several pages later. So the question we have to ask ourselves it is it more likely a town mistake, or a scum mistake? On the one hand, scum tend to scrutinize their arguments more before they present them, but on the other hand, a player who is genuinely trying to find scum, rather than trying to find a compelling narrative that ADK might be scum, is going to be more likely to actually be paying attention to the rest of what's going on, and therefore to know that I am finding ADK the opposite of townie at that point.

I think Joseph and Galz are both super suspicious.

Vote: Joseph

X-1.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Glooble on September 29, 2020, 11:53:27 am
Sorry, I meant to include the quote from Galz as well:

Whatís the argument on Jospeh?

I'm voting Joseph because of the evolution of his "reads" - voting for EFHW for "RVS", that turns into 'leaving his vote there for real reasons' - those 'reasons' being a purchase into the belief that 3 consecutive people expressing town reads on ADK could not themselves all be town, and EFHW (for unexplained reasons) is the scummiest of those 3 people - sorry, 2 people, as Joseph himself was one of the 3 (and thus would not consider himself). The other player, Glooble, has a few votes himself with plenty of conversation happening around him, yet Joseph has been completely silent on that topic. Seems to me that if Joseph genuinely believed that there were scum amongst {EFHW, Glooble}, he would be more interested in considering the arguments surrounding both players in that pair.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: MiX on September 29, 2020, 11:56:51 am
Dayvig: Glooble

Glooble stop being scum. Why would you put Joseph at X-1?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: EFHW on September 29, 2020, 11:57:12 am
Oh, friends... come on. There is nothing about that post that says "here is my well thought out contribution to all that is going on." I said it was impressions, and it is impressions.  Robz doesn't know me well (or maybe he does but just wishes I was a didds of substance...alas) so I can see why he would find it scummy.

But what is really interesting is the EFHW willingness to jump so quickly based on almost nothing other than noticing that she has been in the weeds with MiX. I didn't say that you had only interacted with MiX so saying that I failed to acknowledge the other people isn't compelling. I feel pretty sure that more having a discussion of the scumminess or not of a moon emoji is exactly the kind of thing you'd find suspect if you weren't the one doing it.

Could be. But my main point was your joining the Joseph wagon and uncritically accepting Dylan's theory without acknowledging four different people arguing against it.

Didds didn't vote Joseph.
I see that, sorry. But she did include 2 statements endorsing that wagon.

In any case,

unvote.

Distracted town fits better than scum.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: EFHW on September 29, 2020, 11:58:51 am
@ Glooble - You mention Joseph and Galz as super suspicious. Where do you stand on ADK now?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: MiX on September 29, 2020, 11:59:07 am
Three people in a row saying I'm townie is noteworthy. I'm going to guess that there's exactly one scum on that group
Well if you're right, then that means there's one scum in {EFHW, Glooble}. And I don't think it was 3 town saying it (although the laziest person was me, for just agreeing, I'm ignoring myself as I'm town)

So I kind of like where my vote is

I think there's more to unpack here. Joseph lists me as one of the players finding ADK townie while I am voting for ADK and honestly tunneling them pretty hard. It's a fundamental misreading of the game. Then Galz builds a case on Joseph based on this misreading without pointing it out (and in fact, further solidifying the false narrative.) It's a bizarre mistake for one player to make and an even more bizzare mistake for two players to make and no one to notice until several pages later. So the question we have to ask ourselves it is it more likely a town mistake, or a scum mistake? On the one hand, scum tend to scrutinize their arguments more before they present them, but on the other hand, a player who is genuinely trying to find scum, rather than trying to find a compelling narrative that ADK might be scum, is going to be more likely to actually be paying attention to the rest of what's going on, and therefore to know that I am finding ADK the opposite of townie at that point.

I think Joseph and Galz are both super suspicious.

Vote: Joseph

X-1.

This argument is terrible, town does this way, way more than scum. Scum would know exactly who is pushing ADK regardless of Glooble and ADK's alignment.

Bolded line is exactly what scum does, present the conclusion of what the "evidence" says, because to them that's all that matters. Glooble sees what they wrote, and reaches the conclusion they should be shading Joseph and Galzria, so they point it out. Town doesn't need to do this, since the argumentation speaks for itself.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: chairs on September 29, 2020, 12:14:43 pm
MiX is sus. Haven't found a body but someone hit emergency meeting button. Gut feel.

Vote: mix
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: MiX on September 29, 2020, 12:21:58 pm
MiX is sus. Haven't found a body but someone hit emergency meeting button. Gut feel.

Vote: mix

So you went from someone I'm heavily defending to myself because...?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 29, 2020, 12:33:57 pm
Oh, friends... come on. There is nothing about that post that says "here is my well thought out contribution to all that is going on." I said it was impressions, and it is impressions.  Robz doesn't know me well (or maybe he does but just wishes I was a didds of substance...alas) so I can see why he would find it scummy.

But what is really interesting is the EFHW willingness to jump so quickly based on almost nothing other than noticing that she has been in the weeds with MiX. I didn't say that you had only interacted with MiX so saying that I failed to acknowledge the other people isn't compelling. I feel pretty sure that more having a discussion of the scumminess or not of a moon emoji is exactly the kind of thing you'd find suspect if you weren't the one doing it.

Could be. But my main point was your joining the Joseph wagon and uncritically accepting Dylan's theory without acknowledging four different people arguing against it.

Didds didn't vote Joseph.
I see that, sorry. But she did include 2 statements endorsing that wagon.

In any case,

unvote.

Distracted town fits better than scum.

No worries. I wouldn't say that I am endorsing the Joseph wagon, either, although I have not been explicit (but it all made sense in my head). I do think Dylan has made the best argument, but I think that says more about Dylan than the argument. I think scum Joseph plays more defense and is likely to also add a dose of righteous indignation. I don't see either one of those here. He is laid back in a way that I don't think suits his scum self.

Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: faust on September 29, 2020, 12:39:38 pm
Hi and also my bedtime 🌙.

I felt like thinking about adding the emoji is a feeling scum have more than town on average, trying to make their posts better.
Obviously trying to get on the IC's good side!
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: faust on September 29, 2020, 12:42:05 pm
Vote: chairs

Let's try something new!
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Glooble on September 29, 2020, 01:00:44 pm
@ Glooble - You mention Joseph and Galz as super suspicious. Where do you stand on ADK now?

Still think there's a good chance they're scum.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Glooble on September 29, 2020, 01:02:31 pm
Not feeling warm and fuzzy about MiX either, tbh.

In what universe do I put Joseph to X-1 as scum? People have moved on from me, I'm not under a huge amount of pressure. As scum I lie low here.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: chairs on September 29, 2020, 01:43:22 pm
Vote: chairs

Let's try something new!

This is old and boring
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Glooble on September 29, 2020, 01:44:00 pm
Vote: chairs

Let's try something new!

This is old and boring

Yeah, I was voting chairs before it was cool.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 29, 2020, 02:00:14 pm
Vote: chairs

Let's try something new!

Oh good, faust is town
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Joseph2302 on September 29, 2020, 02:11:09 pm
Well all the people that didn't hammer that X-1 seem a but townier
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Dylan32 on September 29, 2020, 02:39:19 pm
It's late and I have a headache, so while it wasn't long, I'm going to tl;dr my last post for clarity on the salient point.

I pointed out that Galz messed up the group of people who townread ADK back to back to back in trying to read Joseph. Joseph said Glooble not really being in that group explained why he wasn't suspicious of Glooble, but Joseph was originally the first person to put Glooble in that group to begin with by mistake, so he literally was just caught in a lie regarding his motives behind his reads/actions.
It was late and I made a mistake. Everything I said about Glooble and Dylan was what I thought, the fact I temporarily forgot which one of them was on the set of people- so what? Mistakes happen

I had about 100 things on yesterday, and this game really was priority 100

PPE: 1

Sure, the original mistake is totally NAI and mistakes happen, I get that and wouldn't try to make a case out of it. But after I pointed out the mistake, you said that glooble not actually being in that group originally is why you weren't on glooble the same way you were on EFHW. That couldn't have been true, because until I pointed out the mistake, multiple people including you thought glooble was in that group. So the mistake is totally fair, but the claim that glooble not being in that group was the reason you weren't voting or suspicious of them doesn't hold up since you thought they were. You could have made a mistake and then given a different reason for reading glooble the same way, and I wouldn't have a thing to say other than is town or scum more likely to make a mistake like this, and in fact someone else already brought that up. But in this post...

Whatís the argument on Jospeh?

I'm voting Joseph because of the evolution of his "reads" - voting for EFHW for "RVS", that turns into 'leaving his vote there for real reasons' - those 'reasons' being a purchase into the belief that 3 consecutive people expressing town reads on ADK could not themselves all be town, and EFHW (for unexplained reasons) is the scummiest of those 3 people - sorry, 2 people, as Joseph himself was one of the 3 (and thus would not consider himself). The other player, Glooble, has a few votes himself with plenty of conversation happening around him, yet Joseph has been completely silent on that topic. Seems to me that if Joseph genuinely believed that there were scum amongst {EFHW, Glooble}, he would be more interested in considering the arguments surrounding both players in that pair.

Glooble wasn't the 3rd in that sequence of ADK townreads. Glooble was voting for ADK, then EFHW townread, I agreed, then Joseph agreed.

Yes this is why I wasn't on Glooble
And as for Dylan, they've not made many posts for me to analyse right now

Although this post seems more towny than EFHW's vote for anyone post

PPE: 1

... you explicitly claim that a correct understanding of the facts (specifically, knowing that glooble was not in that group) was the reason you weren't on them, when it's documented that you didn't realize that.  Which means you were just making up a reason after the fact rather than truthfully explaining your motives.  If you instead said, "Oh, I messed that up, you're right that I should have had glooble under suspicion based on that, too" or "Oh, now my thoughts towards glooble as it relates to that group now apply to Dylan instead" or a pretty big variety of possible responses actually, you would have acted consistently with realizing you made a mistake and adjusting accordingly, but you didn't. You described yourself as having acted in a way that you only could have if you hadn't made a mistake to begin with.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Glooble on September 29, 2020, 02:48:00 pm
Yeah, I feel good about where my vote is.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Dylan32 on September 29, 2020, 02:56:06 pm
I appreciate Dylan's effort, but Joseph's mixup seems fairly innocent.

Like I said, the original mistake could be totally innocent, NAI, whatever. But his arguments and reads have to be evaluated through the lens of "was operating under faulty info" for that time period. The insidious part was the double speak of saying he made a mistake while simultaneously saying that he had reached a conclusion that could only have happened if he had not made that mistake to begin with.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: EFHW on September 29, 2020, 03:04:46 pm
So scum!Joseph lost track of his lies?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Dylan32 on September 29, 2020, 03:20:17 pm
So scum!Joseph lost track of his lies?

Occam's razor says yeah. If he was town and had an actual reason for seeing glooble and EFHW differently that addressed Galz's original point, he would have remembered that rather than saying essentially "I knew he wasn't in that group, so your point is invalid."
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Swowl on September 29, 2020, 03:30:41 pm
Vote Count 1.4:

Joseph (4): Galzria, Dylan, Eevee, Glooble
Glooble (2): ADK, Space
WCD (1):  Robz888
EFHW (1): MiX
Galrzria (1): WCD
EFHW (1): Joseph
MiX (1): chairs
chairs (1): faust

Not Voting (1): EFHW

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 ends on September 30th at 10pm Forum Time. That is just over 30 hours from the time of this post!!!
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: MiX on September 29, 2020, 03:32:49 pm
Dylan's case is airtight. I'll sheep it :P

Vote: Joseph, X-2
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Eevee on September 29, 2020, 03:49:26 pm
I'm good with the Joseph lynch.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: chairs on September 29, 2020, 04:05:08 pm
😩 I agree, I want to give mix more crap since I wasn't feeling it on scumbuddy memeing this game but Dylan has Joseph preeetty solid.

Vote: Joseph

X-1
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Joseph2302 on September 29, 2020, 05:14:46 pm
I'm VT
And not sure what the hell is going on in this game
And if you're all making decisions based on one post, then that's stupid- go check all the other games where I've bad mistakes when posting late in the evening
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: EFHW on September 29, 2020, 05:56:57 pm
Yeah, I don't buy it either.

vote: MiX

 for joining the fray.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: EFHW on September 29, 2020, 05:58:25 pm
Swowl,  there are a bunch of mistakes in that vc!
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: MiX on September 29, 2020, 05:59:09 pm
Swowl,  there are a bunch of mistakes in that vc!

Yeah I bet Joseph was already hammered.

Yeah, I don't buy it either.

vote: MiX

 for joining the fray.

It was either that or staying on you, and that wagon's not working.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: EFHW on September 29, 2020, 06:04:58 pm
Swowl,  there are a bunch of mistakes in that vc!

Yeah I bet Joseph was already hammered.

Yeah, I don't buy it either.

vote: MiX

 for joining the fray.

It was either that or staying on you, and that wagon's not working.

I keep  reading that as Swowl was hammered.

But, seriously,  there is a lot of time left. You had 2 other scumreads. You stated three different ways that you disagreed with the wagon in just the last page.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: MiX on September 29, 2020, 06:06:52 pm
Yeah, I disagreed with it. Then I read the case again. And again. And some more. Joseph's actions make no sense as town, and I think they match with what they could've done as scum.

That being said, Vote: EFHW
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: MiX on September 29, 2020, 06:07:23 pm
Vote: EFHW

I remembered that Swowl wanted us to vote in a seperate line now, I'll try to keep that in mind.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: EFHW on September 29, 2020, 06:09:35 pm
So scum!Joseph lost track of his lies?

Occam's razor says yeah. If he was town and had an actual reason for seeing glooble and EFHW differently that addressed Galz's original point, he would have remembered that rather than saying essentially "I knew he wasn't in that group, so your point is invalid."
I think he was lazy both times. He didn't remember because he made a careless vote in the first place.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Swowl on September 29, 2020, 06:10:05 pm
Swowl,  there are a bunch of mistakes in that vc!

Will double check one moment to
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: EFHW on September 29, 2020, 06:11:07 pm
This is a great example of don't lie as town.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: MiX on September 29, 2020, 06:11:59 pm
This is a great example of don't lie as town.

Or as scum.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: EFHW on September 29, 2020, 06:15:29 pm
This is a great example of don't lie as town.

The lie in this case would be when he said  that he thought about the first vote at all.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: EFHW on September 29, 2020, 06:19:50 pm
Vote: EFHW

I remembered that Swowl wanted us to vote in a seperate line now, I'll try to keep that in mind.

You changed your mind about Joseph again?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: SpaceAnemone on September 29, 2020, 06:21:16 pm
Well all the people that didn't hammer that X-1 seem a but townier

Huh, I was just awol rather than deliberately refraining from voting. TBH, I agree with the people pointing out that you're quite likely just to have made the error. I also think that Dylan's post calling out your inconsistency at #331 is spot on. However, I also think you're more likely even as town to pretend the error didn't happen and just brush it off rather than owning it and giving everyone some insight into what you had actually meant. So overall I'm meh on you still.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: MiX on September 29, 2020, 06:22:58 pm
Vote: EFHW

I remembered that Swowl wanted us to vote in a seperate line now, I'll try to keep that in mind.

You changed your mind about Joseph again?

Not sure. All I know is you're scum now.

Well all the people that didn't hammer that X-1 seem a but townier

Huh, I was just awol rather than deliberately refraining from voting. TBH, I agree with the people pointing out that you're quite likely just to have made the error. I also think that Dylan's post calling out your inconsistency at #331 is spot on. However, I also think you're more likely even as town to pretend the error didn't happen and just brush it off rather than owning it and giving everyone some insight into what you had actually meant. So overall I'm meh on you still.

I disagree with this analysis on town!Joseph. But I have to admit I could be wrong...

Town post, however.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: SpaceAnemone on September 29, 2020, 06:23:26 pm
My vote counter gives me this as the current vote count:

Glooble (2): A Drowned Kernel, SpaceAnemone
EFHW (2): Joseph2302, MiX
Galzria (1): WestCoastDidds
Joseph2302 (5): Galzria, Dylan32, Eevee, Glooble, Chairs
WestCoastDidds (1): Robz888
Chairs (1): faust
MiX (1): EFHW

I think Joseph was at 6 votes between #339 and #345, but was not hammered.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Galzria on September 29, 2020, 06:28:19 pm
This is a great example of don't lie as town.

The lie in this case would be when he said  that he thought about the first vote at all.

The lie, or mistake, aside, Joseph said he bought into a "X, Y or Z" theory. He then removed himself as Z, and said that scum must be between "X and Y". He then voted for X. Without any additional reasoning behind that vote. And he never even commented on Y. Whether Y is Glooble or Dylan.

That's the basis. Now, since then, he has claimed that:

A: Glooble (who is in fact neither X nor Y) was townie for other reasons, and thus why he wasn't really interested in voting him over EFHW (this is in response to me - and my mistake in not checking the initial erroneous claim):

Whatís the argument on Jospeh?

I'm voting Joseph because of the evolution of his "reads" - voting for EFHW for "RVS", that turns into 'leaving his vote there for real reasons' - those 'reasons' being a purchase into the belief that 3 consecutive people expressing town reads on ADK could not themselves all be town, and EFHW (for unexplained reasons) is the scummiest of those 3 people - sorry, 2 people, as Joseph himself was one of the 3 (and thus would not consider himself). The other player, Glooble, has a few votes himself with plenty of conversation happening around him, yet Joseph has been completely silent on that topic. Seems to me that if Joseph genuinely believed that there were scum amongst {EFHW, Glooble}, he would be more interested in considering the arguments surrounding both players in that pair.
Well Glooble has had one of these random wagons on them  and that makes me feel better about them (because it does seem to me like people are just piling onto whoever gets a vote or 2)

B: That he wasn't concerned with Glooble being in the group at all because he, well, in fact, isn't:

Whatís the argument on Jospeh?

I'm voting Joseph because of the evolution of his "reads" - voting for EFHW for "RVS", that turns into 'leaving his vote there for real reasons' - those 'reasons' being a purchase into the belief that 3 consecutive people expressing town reads on ADK could not themselves all be town, and EFHW (for unexplained reasons) is the scummiest of those 3 people - sorry, 2 people, as Joseph himself was one of the 3 (and thus would not consider himself). The other player, Glooble, has a few votes himself with plenty of conversation happening around him, yet Joseph has been completely silent on that topic. Seems to me that if Joseph genuinely believed that there were scum amongst {EFHW, Glooble}, he would be more interested in considering the arguments surrounding both players in that pair.

Glooble wasn't the 3rd in that sequence of ADK townreads. Glooble was voting for ADK, then EFHW townread, I agreed, then Joseph agreed.

Yes this is why I wasn't on Glooble
And as for Dylan, they've not made many posts for me to analyse right now

Although this post seems more towny than EFHW's vote for anyone post

PPE: 1

And through all of that, his best justification for his EFHW vote was...:

Wait, sorry, there never was one.

Don't plan to move my vote.

Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: SpaceAnemone on September 29, 2020, 06:29:14 pm
Iím still playing catch up a bit....but my quick takes are that itís odd to me that Jospeh isnít doing more in terms of defense. I get that this is priority 100, but X-2.....

EFHW and MiX are playing their own game. Itís not distracting, necessarily, but itís not engaging with much beyond one another so itís generating posts without much relevant content. Itís maybe too laid back for one to be scum because they arenít trying to convince anyone else, but still.

I wanted to comment on this one as I read it, because I thought WCD characterised my difficulty at really feeling like I could engage with the EFHW-MiX microanalysis. I put it down to me just not having "clicked" with the game yet, since that's a common phenomenon to me, and it was nice to see it couched in a way that explained why it might not be the more engage-with-able thing ever. I was kind of surprised how much negative feedback Didds got over it when I read on, though.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Swowl on September 29, 2020, 07:05:00 pm
Vote Count 1.5:

Joseph (5): Galzria, Dylan, Eevee, Glooble, chairs
Glooble (2): ADK, Space
EFHW (2): Joseph, MiX
WCD (1):  Robz888
Galrzria (1): WCD
MiX (1): EFHW
chairs (1): faust

Not Voting (0):

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 ends on September 30th at 10pm Forum Time. That is just over 1 day from the time of this post!!!


*** Vote Count 1.4 has been updated. The only error was that EFHW had unvoted from WCD. There has been no missed hammer. 
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Dylan32 on September 29, 2020, 07:40:40 pm
So I was mildly surprised by how spread out the votes are outside of the Joseph wagon.

Unrelated to the game, but I can't help but chuckle anytime I notice Swowl's signature. Possibly the single most memorable mafia moment of my life haha.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 29, 2020, 08:03:21 pm
It's late and I have a headache, so while it wasn't long, I'm going to tl;dr my last post for clarity on the salient point.

I pointed out that Galz messed up the group of people who townread ADK back to back to back in trying to read Joseph. Joseph said Glooble not really being in that group explained why he wasn't suspicious of Glooble, but Joseph was originally the first person to put Glooble in that group to begin with by mistake, so he literally was just caught in a lie regarding his motives behind his reads/actions.
It was late and I made a mistake. Everything I said about Glooble and Dylan was what I thought, the fact I temporarily forgot which one of them was on the set of people- so what? Mistakes happen

I had about 100 things on yesterday, and this game really was priority 100

PPE: 1

Sure, the original mistake is totally NAI and mistakes happen, I get that and wouldn't try to make a case out of it. But after I pointed out the mistake, you said that glooble not actually being in that group originally is why you weren't on glooble the same way you were on EFHW. That couldn't have been true, because until I pointed out the mistake, multiple people including you thought glooble was in that group. So the mistake is totally fair, but the claim that glooble not being in that group was the reason you weren't voting or suspicious of them doesn't hold up since you thought they were. You could have made a mistake and then given a different reason for reading glooble the same way, and I wouldn't have a thing to say other than is town or scum more likely to make a mistake like this, and in fact someone else already brought that up. But in this post...

Whatís the argument on Jospeh?

I'm voting Joseph because of the evolution of his "reads" - voting for EFHW for "RVS", that turns into 'leaving his vote there for real reasons' - those 'reasons' being a purchase into the belief that 3 consecutive people expressing town reads on ADK could not themselves all be town, and EFHW (for unexplained reasons) is the scummiest of those 3 people - sorry, 2 people, as Joseph himself was one of the 3 (and thus would not consider himself). The other player, Glooble, has a few votes himself with plenty of conversation happening around him, yet Joseph has been completely silent on that topic. Seems to me that if Joseph genuinely believed that there were scum amongst {EFHW, Glooble}, he would be more interested in considering the arguments surrounding both players in that pair.

Glooble wasn't the 3rd in that sequence of ADK townreads. Glooble was voting for ADK, then EFHW townread, I agreed, then Joseph agreed.

Yes this is why I wasn't on Glooble
And as for Dylan, they've not made many posts for me to analyse right now

Although this post seems more towny than EFHW's vote for anyone post

PPE: 1

... you explicitly claim that a correct understanding of the facts (specifically, knowing that glooble was not in that group) was the reason you weren't on them, when it's documented that you didn't realize that.  Which means you were just making up a reason after the fact rather than truthfully explaining your motives.  If you instead said, "Oh, I messed that up, you're right that I should have had glooble under suspicion based on that, too" or "Oh, now my thoughts towards glooble as it relates to that group now apply to Dylan instead" or a pretty big variety of possible responses actually, you would have acted consistently with realizing you made a mistake and adjusting accordingly, but you didn't. You described yourself as having acted in a way that you only could have if you hadn't made a mistake to begin with.

Maybe I'm giving Joseph too much benefit of the doubt, but I originally read his "this is why I wasn't on Glooble" as meaning "I wasn't voting for glooble because I had his and Dylan's posts confused in my head", not as "I knew glooble was outside the group all along"
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 29, 2020, 09:00:38 pm
Iím still playing catch up a bit....but my quick takes are that itís odd to me that Jospeh isnít doing more in terms of defense. I get that this is priority 100, but X-2.....

EFHW and MiX are playing their own game. Itís not distracting, necessarily, but itís not engaging with much beyond one another so itís generating posts without much relevant content. Itís maybe too laid back for one to be scum because they arenít trying to convince anyone else, but still.

I wanted to comment on this one as I read it, because I thought WCD characterised my difficulty at really feeling like I could engage with the EFHW-MiX microanalysis. I put it down to me just not having "clicked" with the game yet, since that's a common phenomenon to me, and it was nice to see it couched in a way that explained why it might not be the more engage-with-able thing ever. I was kind of surprised how much negative feedback Didds got over it when I read on, though.

Right? I mean itís easy to sheep the IC, but it was a quick, weird piling on. In retrospect,
Vote: EFHW
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: EFHW on September 29, 2020, 09:05:24 pm
I unvoted you, remember? And I had reasons for my vote, one of which turned out to be a misunderstanding.  Do we have your full attention?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: chairs on September 29, 2020, 09:56:05 pm
Woo I'm back at a computer!
Exhausted, but at least now I can read posts while I post, instead of just going "okay what did I feel about X Y Z again?" while my daughter goes "DADDY I CAN MAKE THE MAN PARACHUTE"
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: faust on September 30, 2020, 01:34:02 am
Meep. The Joseph wagon is understandable, with all the inconsistency. But I really doubt they are the kind of player to claim VT in that spot as scum.

Non-Joseph votes really need to consolidate. Is noone liking chairs? The way he hopped onto the Didds wagon just to immediately abandon it is was pretty suspicious.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: MiX on September 30, 2020, 02:12:31 am
Meep. The Joseph wagon is understandable, with all the inconsistency. But I really doubt they are the kind of player to claim VT in that spot as scum.

Non-Joseph votes really need to consolidate. Is noone liking chairs? The way he hopped onto the Didds wagon just to immediately abandon it is was pretty suspicious.

The claims are a crapshoot and I think it's more likely for scum!Joseph to do that than otherwise.

That felt pro-town and like what town!chairs would've done in that situation.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: faust on September 30, 2020, 05:25:52 am
Meep. The Joseph wagon is understandable, with all the inconsistency. But I really doubt they are the kind of player to claim VT in that spot as scum.

Non-Joseph votes really need to consolidate. Is noone liking chairs? The way he hopped onto the Didds wagon just to immediately abandon it is was pretty suspicious.

The claims are a crapshoot and I think it's more likely for scum!Joseph to do that than otherwise.

That felt pro-town and like what town!chairs would've done in that situation.
How was it pro-town?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: MiX on September 30, 2020, 06:09:01 am
Meep. The Joseph wagon is understandable, with all the inconsistency. But I really doubt they are the kind of player to claim VT in that spot as scum.

Non-Joseph votes really need to consolidate. Is noone liking chairs? The way he hopped onto the Didds wagon just to immediately abandon it is was pretty suspicious.

The claims are a crapshoot and I think it's more likely for scum!Joseph to do that than otherwise.

That felt pro-town and like what town!chairs would've done in that situation.
How was it pro-town?

It helped create a bunch of reactions to the Didds wagon, and a way for people to interact with Didds voters that aren't the IC. At least I think my reaction to it wasn't NAI.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: EFHW on September 30, 2020, 08:05:44 am
unvote

I don't think MiX would have said this as scum (second comment below):

Mixy, it seems clear you need to make the MiXian comment your new sig. You've officially been Mixing here long enough to have a spice blend of your own.

Sure, I'll add it when this game's over. I just really like the current one.

Speaking of which, you do know we aren't partners this time around?

Yes I do, and I wish we were.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: MiX on September 30, 2020, 08:11:39 am
unvote

I don't think MiX would have said this as scum (second comment below):

Mixy, it seems clear you need to make the MiXian comment your new sig. You've officially been Mixing here long enough to have a spice blend of your own.

Sure, I'll add it when this game's over. I just really like the current one.

Speaking of which, you do know we aren't partners this time around?

Yes I do, and I wish we were.

Why not? What made you look at that now and say it's townie compared to when I first said it?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: EFHW on September 30, 2020, 08:14:45 am
I'm going with

vote: ADK.

This comment seems like it could be strategic modesty and setting town up, similar to when people set up artificial 1:1s.

Three people in a row saying I'm townie is noteworthy. I'm going to guess that there's exactly one scum on that group

PPE: MiX
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: EFHW on September 30, 2020, 08:23:00 am
unvote

I don't think MiX would have said this as scum (second comment below):

Mixy, it seems clear you need to make the MiXian comment your new sig. You've officially been Mixing here long enough to have a spice blend of your own.

Sure, I'll add it when this game's over. I just really like the current one.

Speaking of which, you do know we aren't partners this time around?

Yes I do, and I wish we were.

Why not? What made you look at that now and say it's townie compared to when I first said it?
It would suggest that scum!you were unhappy with your partners, which is bad for teamwork and unnecessarily hurtful. From now on, this situation will be WIFOM, of course.

As for why now, I knew I could be wrong about you, OMGUS and all that, so I went over things again.  I was also wondering if having just been partners is making us paranoid about each other.  I've had that feeling before.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: EFHW on September 30, 2020, 08:40:13 am
I unvoted you, remember? And I had reasons for my vote, one of which turned out to be a misunderstanding.  Do we have your full attention?
I'm sorry, this was really not nice of me.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: MiX on September 30, 2020, 08:46:35 am
As for why now, I knew I could be wrong about you, OMGUS and all that, so I went over things again.  I was also wondering if having just been partners is making us paranoid about each other.  I've had that feeling before.

It is, as anyone that has noticed we're going at each other basically all of D1 can tell.

I don't think I'll get a better read than "you look like you're scum, and you're entertaining me so you don't get exiled" D1. Which is disappointing, I'm usually better than that.

I'm going with

vote: ADK.

This comment seems like it could be strategic modesty and setting town up, similar to when people set up artificial 1:1s.

Three people in a row saying I'm townie is noteworthy. I'm going to guess that there's exactly one scum on that group

PPE: MiX

Do you townread Glooble Dylan and Joseph then? Otherwise, if what ADK said might be true, then we should follow up on that first, right?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: faust on September 30, 2020, 08:51:37 am
Why not? What made you look at that now and say it's townie compared to when I first said it?
It would suggest that scum!you were unhappy with your partners, which is bad for teamwork and unnecessarily hurtful. From now on, this situation will be WIFOM, of course.

As for why now, I knew I could be wrong about you, OMGUS and all that, so I went over things again.  I was also wondering if having just been partners is making us paranoid about each other.  I've had that feeling before.
I mean, I would not have been offended at all if MiX was my partner and said that, and more importantly I don't think scum!MiX would decide to not post something like this based on the reasoning you laid out. (Which I do not mean to say I think MiX is inconsiderate, but rather that he'd assume, as is reasonable in a game of mafia, that his partners wouldn't take whatever MiX posts in thread as his true opinion.)

Also I think I posted in scum chats before that I wish I could have been scum with ashersky, because I never have been and imagine it would be a load of fun. Sorry to anyone who might have been hurt by this; I did not mean to say I don't enjoy being scum with you.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 30, 2020, 09:07:43 am
Meep. The Joseph wagon is understandable, with all the inconsistency. But I really doubt they are the kind of player to claim VT in that spot as scum.

Non-Joseph votes really need to consolidate. Is noone liking chairs? The way he hopped onto the Didds wagon just to immediately abandon it is was pretty suspicious.

chairs is hard to get excited about, as far as I can tell it's basically a lurker exile
I'm going with

vote: ADK.

This comment seems like it could be strategic modesty and setting town up, similar to when people set up artificial 1:1s.

Three people in a row saying I'm townie is noteworthy. I'm going to guess that there's exactly one scum on that group

PPE: MiX

I'll admit it wasn't the most stellar argument, which is why I haven't really followed up with it. Certainly none of the three players in question have jumped out at me as scummy
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 30, 2020, 09:08:39 am
I meant to follow up that chairs comment with saying that people should join me on Glooble!
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: faust on September 30, 2020, 09:11:46 am
I meant to follow up that chairs comment with saying that people should join me on Glooble!
yolo

Vote:Glooble
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: faust on September 30, 2020, 09:12:09 am
Oops missing space!

Vote: Glooble
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: EFHW on September 30, 2020, 09:20:55 am
Do you townread Glooble Dylan and Joseph then? Otherwise, if what ADK said might be true, then we should follow up on that first, right?

I think they are probably town, yes.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 30, 2020, 09:21:53 am
faust, you said chairs was scummy for the vote bouncing around yesterday. EFHW did the same thing plus another vote/invite on MiX and snapped at me for voting for her. Is that les scummy than chairs?

Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 30, 2020, 09:22:22 am
I unvoted you, remember? And I had reasons for my vote, one of which turned out to be a misunderstanding.  Do we have your full attention?
I'm sorry, this was really not nice of me.

Thank you
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: faust on September 30, 2020, 09:25:56 am
faust, you said chairs was scummy for the vote bouncing around yesterday. EFHW did the same thing plus another vote/invite on MiX and snapped at me for voting for her. Is that les scummy than chairs?
Yes. With EFHW I can see why she voted and unvoted when she did, and that largely seems to make sense.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Joseph2302 on September 30, 2020, 09:40:00 am
Meep. The Joseph wagon is understandable, with all the inconsistency. But I really doubt they are the kind of player to claim VT in that spot as scum.

Non-Joseph votes really need to consolidate. Is noone liking chairs? The way he hopped onto the Didds wagon just to immediately abandon it is was pretty suspicious.

chairs is hard to get excited about, as far as I can tell it's basically a lurker exile
I'm going with

vote: ADK.

This comment seems like it could be strategic modesty and setting town up, similar to when people set up artificial 1:1s.

Three people in a row saying I'm townie is noteworthy. I'm going to guess that there's exactly one scum on that group

PPE: MiX

I'll admit it wasn't the most stellar argument, which is why I haven't really followed up with it. Certainly none of the three players in question have jumped out at me as scummy
We often seem to chairs exile based mainly on inactivity. There must be a better option based on scumminess not just lurkiness
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: faust on September 30, 2020, 09:54:27 am
Meep. The Joseph wagon is understandable, with all the inconsistency. But I really doubt they are the kind of player to claim VT in that spot as scum.

Non-Joseph votes really need to consolidate. Is noone liking chairs? The way he hopped onto the Didds wagon just to immediately abandon it is was pretty suspicious.

chairs is hard to get excited about, as far as I can tell it's basically a lurker exile
I'm going with

vote: ADK.

This comment seems like it could be strategic modesty and setting town up, similar to when people set up artificial 1:1s.

Three people in a row saying I'm townie is noteworthy. I'm going to guess that there's exactly one scum on that group

PPE: MiX

I'll admit it wasn't the most stellar argument, which is why I haven't really followed up with it. Certainly none of the three players in question have jumped out at me as scummy
We often seem to chairs exile based mainly on inactivity. There must be a better option based on scumminess not just lurkiness
I don't know why you two insist that chairs would be a lurker exile when my reasoning, which both of you quoted, clearly has nothing to do with his level of activity, but I don't like it.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Robz888 on September 30, 2020, 10:07:24 am
Vote: Glooble is fine by me, actually. Definitely better than Joseph.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Glooble on September 30, 2020, 10:15:45 am
Joseph is such a better exile.

But w/e. Once I flip town maybe you'll see ADK's smear job for what it is and vote them off next.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: MiX on September 30, 2020, 10:30:03 am
Oops missing space!

Vote:spaceGlooble

Joseph is such a better exile.

But w/e. Once I flip town maybe you'll see ADK's smear job for what it is and vote them off next.

Do you think they're both scum?

Are you claiming?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Glooble on September 30, 2020, 10:44:03 am
Oops missing space!

Vote:spaceGlooble

Joseph is such a better exile.

But w/e. Once I flip town maybe you'll see ADK's smear job for what it is and vote them off next.

Do you think they're both scum?

Are you claiming?

I might claim if I get another vote or two on me.

I could certainly see them both being scum, but I don't have any particular evidence of them being partners. I might be tunneling a little because ADK's attacks on me feel personal, I'm open to that possibility. But in general pretty much everything they've said this game has come off as manipulative and scummy to me. Joseph, OTOH, has Dylan's excellent case and an actual chance of happening.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 30, 2020, 10:45:30 am
@faust: I don't find the vote-hopping terribly scummy, in that it's what I would expect from lazy!town!chairs, so the biggest reason I see to vote for chairs would be his lurkiness
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 30, 2020, 10:46:29 am
I don't see how I've made anything in my arguments personal
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Glooble on September 30, 2020, 10:49:38 am
Maybe that was the wrong term. It feels very obvious to me that ADK's case on me is built out of nothing, and I'm baffled by everyone's willingness to go along with it. I see a musch stronger scum narrative for them than a town one, and I'm hoping that if I do get exiled and flip town, that narrative will be as obvious to all of you as it is to me, right now, having knowledge of my own alignment.

Could someone please state a case on me using actual facts? I don't know what such a case would look like, but I'm guessing its not remotely close to as good as the case on Joseph.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 30, 2020, 10:53:34 am
Maybe that was the wrong term. It feels very obvious to me that ADK's case on me is built out of nothing, and I'm baffled by everyone's willingness to go along with it. I see a musch stronger scum narrative for them than a town one, and I'm hoping that if I do get exiled and flip town, that narrative will be as obvious to all of you as it is to me, right now, having knowledge of my own alignment.

Could someone please state a case on me using actual facts? I don't know what such a case would look like, but I'm guessing its not remotely close to as good as the case on Joseph.

That's a fair request, I won't much time until this evening but I will try to do something on my lunch break
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: faust on September 30, 2020, 11:05:50 am
MiXy, come get on a wagon, I know you want to!
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: MiX on September 30, 2020, 11:06:28 am
MiXy, come get on a wagon, I know you want to!

I think Glooble is town. Count me out, I'll die on the EFHW wagon.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: faust on September 30, 2020, 11:09:37 am
MiXy, come get on a wagon, I know you want to!

I think Glooble is town. Count me out, I'll die on the EFHW wagon.

So what changed from here?
I don't think Joseph is scum. If I had to call it, I'd say the scumteam's EFHW/Glooble/Galzria, and these are whom I would like to exile today.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Glooble on September 30, 2020, 11:10:24 am
The first time I was an IC, on Jimmmm's site, I played it more or less how Robz is playing it. A more experienced player, I wish I could remember who, it may even have been ADK, might also have been shraeye or Galz, advised me to not vote until the very end of wagons as IC, because my vote on a bad wagon gave scum too much cover if they got on after me. In subsequent games where I've gotten the IC role, I've tended to avoid starting a wagon unless I was fairly certain about it.

The fact that my wagon started with a vote from Robz but has been pushed by ADK is telling. It gives ADK cover for when I flip town. "Oh, well I didn't start it, it was the IC, I just followed along." Again, look at the votes. ADK votes for MiX, gives their reasons. I say "those reasons make sense." Robz tells people not to fall into the trap of voting for MiX, then votes for me. Even if Robz didn't outright say "voting for MiX is scummy" the fact that he immediately voted for me implied it. Then ADK jumps on me. Even though I was literally sheeping their case. I just don't see a town narrative for that behavior at all. But it makes perfect sense to me as a deflection tactic from a scum player when the IC calls their case scummy.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: MiX on September 30, 2020, 11:11:52 am
MiXy, come get on a wagon, I know you want to!

I think Glooble is town. Count me out, I'll die on the EFHW wagon.

So what changed from here?
I don't think Joseph is scum. If I had to call it, I'd say the scumteam's EFHW/Glooble/Galzria, and these are whom I would like to exile today.

His latest posts come from town!Glooble, all alone in the world and against everyone. I can't see him having any partners.

The first time I was an IC, on Jimmmm's site, I played it more or less how Robz is playing it. A more experienced player, I wish I could remember who, it may even have been ADK, might also have been shraeye or Galz, advised me to not vote until the very end of wagons as IC, because my vote on a bad wagon gave scum too much cover if they got on after me. In subsequent games where I've gotten the IC role, I've tended to avoid starting a wagon unless I was fairly certain about it.

The fact that my wagon started with a vote from Robz but has been pushed by ADK is telling. It gives ADK cover for when I flip town. "Oh, well I didn't start it, it was the IC, I just followed along." Again, look at the votes. ADK votes for MiX, gives their reasons. I say "those reasons make sense." Robz tells people not to fall into the trap of voting for MiX, then votes for me. Even if Robz didn't outright say "voting for MiX is scummy" the fact that he immediately voted for me implied it. Then ADK jumps on me. Even though I was literally sheeping their case. I just don't see a town narrative for that behavior at all. But it makes perfect sense to me as a deflection tactic from a scum player when the IC calls their case scummy.

It makes perfect sense for town to do that. Sheeping a case isn't townie, and your jump on me was terrible.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Eevee on September 30, 2020, 11:14:02 am
Grunch grunch!

I also think Glooble is town (but ADK is townier).

I really think Joseph is a good bet, and I wouldn't oppose a lurker exile (say chairs). Mix lately has been behaving like I'd expect from his townself, but come to think of it not sure I've ever seen him as scum, as much as I've always thought he was.

Main point, not sure why the Joseph wagon fizzled, I didn't find his defense compelling at all. I didn't see Didds's original posts as scummy as others, but the defense didn't ring very genuine to me, I'll be keeping my eye out on them.

All in all, deadline close, the case on Joseph was a GREAT d1 case, I really think we should go for that.

Also funny sidenote, if Robz wasn't the IC, I'd totally be calling for his lurker lynch now, haha. (... I know his play makes sense for IC, just think it's funny that it makes sense for IC and scum to play sort of the same way.)
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: faust on September 30, 2020, 11:15:02 am
His latest posts come from town!Glooble, all alone in the world and against everyone. I can't see him having any partners.
Which posts? How do his posts indicate that he doesn't have partners?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Glooble on September 30, 2020, 11:15:33 am
As a town player, I have never jumped on another player for agreeing with me. Especially early in the game when the goal is just to generate a few wagons that can be analyzed later.

Idk, I'm going to wait until ADK builds an actual case on me to try and defend myself more. I stayed up too late watching the dumpster fire and my brain is kinda scrambled.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: MiX on September 30, 2020, 11:17:46 am
As a town player, I have never jumped on another player for agreeing with me. Especially early in the game when the goal is just to generate a few wagons that can be analyzed later.

Idk, I'm going to wait until ADK builds an actual case on me to try and defend myself more. I stayed up too late watching the dumpster fire and my brain is kinda scrambled.

Well, you're not ADK.

His latest posts come from town!Glooble, all alone in the world and against everyone. I can't see him having any partners.
Which posts? How do his posts indicate that he doesn't have partners?

This is hard to explain, I'll get back to you.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: faust on September 30, 2020, 11:18:38 am
As a town player, I have never jumped on another player for agreeing with me. Especially early in the game when the goal is just to generate a few wagons that can be analyzed later.

Idk, I'm going to wait until ADK builds an actual case on me to try and defend myself more. I stayed up too late watching the dumpster fire and my brain is kinda scrambled.
Hmm, I don't know, I get suspicious every time someone sheeps me! All those pesky scums wanting to abuse my bad reads for their own benefit!
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 30, 2020, 11:22:43 am
Iíve always got an eyes on you, Eevee...the cute, fluffy saboteur!

I am feeling pressure to consolidate (although maybe I am doing that to myself) but feel like both Joseph and Glooble are town friends.

EFHW is the best choice, but thereís what, three votes there, maybe? No one seems interested in Galz (who is more lurky to me than chairs). 

Iíll wait to see what ADK has to say, I guess. These are uninspiring choices... I guess exiling a VT isnít the worst option, but it would be more awesome to exile scum, you know?

PPE: 4
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: chairs on September 30, 2020, 12:01:52 pm
Am I really lurking that much? Man, sorry. It doesn't feel like it on my end.

I think this it Town gloobs

I think the ADK argument from gloobs makes a lot of sense.

Vote: adk
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Galzria on September 30, 2020, 12:30:38 pm
Iíve always got an eyes on you, Eevee...the cute, fluffy saboteur!

I am feeling pressure to consolidate (although maybe I am doing that to myself) but feel like both Joseph and Glooble are town friends.

EFHW is the best choice, but thereís what, three votes there, maybe? No one seems interested in Galz (who is more lurky to me than chairs). 

Iíll wait to see what ADK has to say, I guess. These are uninspiring choices... I guess exiling a VT isnít the worst option, but it would be more awesome to exile scum, you know?

PPE: 4

You should go back and re-read then. I have more game posts than Chairs, and only 4 fewer game posts than you do. And I would argue that 2/3 of my game posts (past the RVS stages) have had game-substance to them. And that's coming from me, who doesn't do D1 particularly well in general. I would very much NOT classify my play this game as being "lurky" in any fashion.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Robz888 on September 30, 2020, 12:45:25 pm
The first time I was an IC, on Jimmmm's site, I played it more or less how Robz is playing it. A more experienced player, I wish I could remember who, it may even have been ADK, might also have been shraeye or Galz, advised me to not vote until the very end of wagons as IC, because my vote on a bad wagon gave scum too much cover if they got on after me. In subsequent games where I've gotten the IC role, I've tended to avoid starting a wagon unless I was fairly certain about it.

The fact that my wagon started with a vote from Robz but has been pushed by ADK is telling. It gives ADK cover for when I flip town. "Oh, well I didn't start it, it was the IC, I just followed along." Again, look at the votes. ADK votes for MiX, gives their reasons. I say "those reasons make sense." Robz tells people not to fall into the trap of voting for MiX, then votes for me. Even if Robz didn't outright say "voting for MiX is scummy" the fact that he immediately voted for me implied it. Then ADK jumps on me. Even though I was literally sheeping their case. I just don't see a town narrative for that behavior at all. But it makes perfect sense to me as a deflection tactic from a scum player when the IC calls their case scummy.

This is a good point. Something to consider if Glooble flips town.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Eevee on September 30, 2020, 01:27:17 pm
Deadline is in less than 10 hours?

If it's looking like a noexile, I think we should all go for whoever Robz tells us to go for. Any random exile > no exile in my opinion, and Robz is a good instinctual player to boot, he can do better than random (if anyone can). I'll be up for at least 5 hours still, but will be sleeping at the deadline, so unless there's a majority before that, I'll be switching my vote to whoever Robz is voting for then. (Robz feel free to direct me if it comes to that!)

Obvs would prefer an organic exile. I'll be present on and off for the following hours, people should consider consolidating votes!
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: MiX on September 30, 2020, 01:36:10 pm
Deadline is in less than 10 hours?

If it's looking like a noexile, I think we should all go for whoever Robz tells us to go for. Any random exile > no exile in my opinion, and Robz is a good instinctual player to boot, he can do better than random (if anyone can). I'll be up for at least 5 hours still, but will be sleeping at the deadline, so unless there's a majority before that, I'll be switching my vote to whoever Robz is voting for then. (Robz feel free to direct me if it comes to that!)

Obvs would prefer an organic exile. I'll be present on and off for the following hours, people should consider consolidating votes!

Yes.

If Robz is around in deadline, then yes, but even then we can usually gather people around for an exile, so we shouldn't need to follow the IC.

You still prefer Joseph, right?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Eevee on September 30, 2020, 01:41:44 pm
Yeah, prefer Joseph. I seriously doubt we can do better day 1!
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on September 30, 2020, 02:20:17 pm
I don't think I can make the full case on glooble that I want to while phone posting, which sucks. For now I just want to point out that he continues to mischaracterize my original reason for voting him as being solely due to him following me on mix and to sheep the IC when I've already explained my thought process

I will be on and on a computer for the two hours leading up to deadline
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: faust on September 30, 2020, 02:54:34 pm
Mhf, I've gotta go to bed soonish, if you want to convince me you have like an hour.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Swowl on September 30, 2020, 02:55:53 pm
Vote Count 1.6:

Joseph (4): Galzria, Dylan, Eevee, Glooble,
Glooble (4): ADK, Space, faust, Robz888
EFHW (3): Joseph, MiX, WCD
ADK (2): EFHW, chairs

Not Voting (0):

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 ends on September 30th at 10pm Forum Time. That is TODAY! Roughly 7 hours from the time of this post!

Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Joseph2302 on September 30, 2020, 03:19:38 pm
Mhf, I've gotta go to bed soonish, if you want to convince me you have like an hour.
I have about 3-4 hours, as deadline is 3am for me
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Joseph2302 on September 30, 2020, 03:20:47 pm
Not particularly keen on the Glooble wagon
But if Robz says that's the one to go for, I will
I'm sure his reads are probably better than mine anyway
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Dylan32 on September 30, 2020, 03:25:16 pm
It's noteworthy that the primary defense of Joseph hasn't really come from Joseph. This wouldn't be the first time since I came back last year that I caught scum!Joseph on a narrative like this D1 if I'm right (inb4 Joseph "you aren't"). I have a lot to do today, so I probably won't be on much throughout the day, but I should be able to be around to move if needed for an exile later. As it is, I believe I've caught scum, so I'm not moving until I have to.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Galzria on September 30, 2020, 03:30:17 pm
Hereís where Iím at:

I think Glooble is Town. Heís read incredibly genuine to me, and I donít want to see him exiled or even forced to claim today.

I think Joseph has the hands down best case for being scum. Iím happy with my vote there, and would ideally very much prefer him.

My second scum read, however, is a gut read, and itís Eevee. I donít really want to make any sort of end of day push towards him, but his being on Joseph is the only thing giving me pause on my vote.  It also makes me concerned that Joseph/Glooble are both Town, and we donít have a GOOD alternative (we could make anyone happen if we wanted, but few are actually good).

So... yeah. Open to suggestions.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Eevee on September 30, 2020, 04:20:56 pm
Well, that feels like a scummy thing to say if you ask me!
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: MiX on September 30, 2020, 04:34:19 pm
Well, that feels like a scummy thing to say if you ask me!

What does? What Galz just said? Or something else?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Eevee on September 30, 2020, 04:36:44 pm
What Galz just said.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: WestCoastDidds on September 30, 2020, 05:21:35 pm
I will move to Jospeh if thatís the only way to get an exile, but I far prefer EFHW.

Iím making my kidís birthday cake and stuff for the next few hours but Iíll for sure be around later. (Cake!)
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: SpaceAnemone on September 30, 2020, 05:42:38 pm
Mhf, I've gotta go to bed soonish, if you want to convince me you have like an hour.
I have about 3-4 hours, as deadline is 3am for me

Yes, and also for me and presumably MiX as well.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: MiX on September 30, 2020, 05:43:28 pm
Mhf, I've gotta go to bed soonish, if you want to convince me you have like an hour.
I have about 3-4 hours, as deadline is 3am for me

Yes, and also for me and presumably MiX as well.

Can confirm.

I'm comfortable where I am right now. Space, who are you voting for?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: SpaceAnemone on September 30, 2020, 05:49:59 pm
I think the Glooble wagon is going to be interesting for PoE later after a few people have flipped, but I'm not really feeling that vote any more.

Vote: Joseph

Pretty sure I've given Joseph the benefit of the doubt before in justifying something he'd done that would have been a mistake as town as just careless play, only to have had it turn out that he was scum, so maybe I should learn to put less of a "careless town" prior on him sometime. At the very least, it's a vote against people retconning their narratives about voting reasoning.

PPE 2.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: SpaceAnemone on September 30, 2020, 05:53:04 pm
Space, who are you voting for?

Was on Glooble, now on Joseph.

I think the people paging out soonish because of European timezones are faust, you, me, Joseph and Eevee, though TBH I'm not sure where Eevee is these days. Currently Eevee and I are on Joseph, you and Joseph are on EFHW, and faust is on Glooble, which is a bit fragmented, but my move hasn't made it any worse.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Robz888 on September 30, 2020, 05:55:16 pm
Vote: Joseph
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: MiX on September 30, 2020, 05:55:45 pm
I think the Glooble wagon is going to be interesting for PoE later after a few people have flipped, but I'm not really feeling that vote any more.

Vote: Joseph

Pretty sure I've given Joseph the benefit of the doubt before in justifying something he'd done that would have been a mistake as town as just careless play, only to have had it turn out that he was scum, so maybe I should learn to put less of a "careless town" prior on him sometime. At the very least, it's a vote against people retconning their narratives about voting reasoning.

PPE 2.

I mean, yes, but also, it's Joseph.

Can you give a Space Count?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: EFHW on September 30, 2020, 05:57:29 pm
I was just about to put Joseph at X-1, see Robz beat me to it. At this point, it's better to know his alignment even if he is town, given that he has claimed VT.

vote: Joseph
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: MiX on September 30, 2020, 05:59:39 pm
Vote: Joseph

I was just about to put Joseph at X-1, see Robz beat me to it. At this point, it's better to know his alignment even if he is town, given that he has claimed VT.

vote: Joseph

Given you're probably going to die, Robz, this is a good example of why you should only hammer as the IC, and never put anyone at X-1.

Good night everyone!
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Swowl on September 30, 2020, 06:04:21 pm
THREAD LOCKED
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Swowl on September 30, 2020, 06:08:14 pm
Vote Count 1.Final:

Joseph (7): Galzria, Dylan, Eevee, Glooble, Space, Robz888, EFHW
EFHW (3): Joseph, MiX, WCD
Glooble (2): ADK, faust,
ADK (1): chairs

Not Voting (0):

With 13 alive, it took 7 to lynch.
Night 1 starts now and ends October 2nd at 6:10pm Forum Time.

Night actions are due in 36 hours.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Swowl on September 30, 2020, 06:28:06 pm
(https://i.ibb.co/7WpC0HK/generalmeme1.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)

Joseph has been lynched.

He was an Adorable Mutt.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Swowl on October 02, 2020, 06:15:24 pm
(https://i.ibb.co/yXy8NMJ/rottymeme.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Y3ktNKG)




MiX has been killed! They were the Town Rottweiler!
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Swowl on October 02, 2020, 06:15:52 pm
Vote Count 2.0:

Not Voting (11): Dylan, WCD, EFHW, ADK, Galz, faust, chairs, Eevee, Space, Robz, Glooble

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
Day 1 starts now and ends on October 9th at 6:15PM Forum Time.


THREAD UNLOCKED!
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: chairs on October 02, 2020, 06:55:42 pm
Well that happened. Phone posting again but what's that mean Mafia has?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on October 02, 2020, 07:12:23 pm
Well that happened. Phone posting again but what's that mean Mafia has?

Encryptor, so scum has daychat
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on October 02, 2020, 07:16:20 pm
vote: space

I think the Glooble wagon is going to be interesting for PoE later after a few people have flipped, but I'm not really feeling that vote any more.

Vote: Joseph

Pretty sure I've given Joseph the benefit of the doubt before in justifying something he'd done that would have been a mistake as town as just careless play, only to have had it turn out that he was scum, so maybe I should learn to put less of a "careless town" prior on him sometime. At the very least, it's a vote against people retconning their narratives about voting reasoning.

PPE 2.

This is scummy as hell. Space abandons one wagon with next to no reasoning and joins another with reasoning that's largely based on meta. It's a weak vote, and at the point it happens it heavily shifts the exile onto be joseph
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: EFHW on October 02, 2020, 08:18:52 pm
Well that happened. Phone posting again but what's that mean Mafia has?

Encryptor, so scum has daychat
Well so do we, so take that!
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: chairs on October 02, 2020, 09:02:29 pm
Well that happened. Phone posting again but what's that mean Mafia has?

Encryptor, so scum has daychat
Well so do we, so take that!

YEAH BUDDY
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 02, 2020, 09:46:25 pm
Oh, MiXy! no! That sucks.

But Iím super glad that Robz is still here.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: EFHW on October 02, 2020, 11:09:15 pm
I'm thinking the choice of MiX over Robz means we have a doctor.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: faust on October 03, 2020, 02:02:25 am
vote: space

I think the Glooble wagon is going to be interesting for PoE later after a few people have flipped, but I'm not really feeling that vote any more.

Vote: Joseph

Pretty sure I've given Joseph the benefit of the doubt before in justifying something he'd done that would have been a mistake as town as just careless play, only to have had it turn out that he was scum, so maybe I should learn to put less of a "careless town" prior on him sometime. At the very least, it's a vote against people retconning their narratives about voting reasoning.

PPE 2.

This is scummy as hell. Space abandons one wagon with next to no reasoning and joins another with reasoning that's largely based on meta. It's a weak vote, and at the point it happens it heavily shifts the exile onto be joseph
That's only scummy if Glooble is scum. And if you think that, you should probably vote for Glooble.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: faust on October 03, 2020, 02:03:07 am
(or EFHW I guess, that wagon was also kind of viable at the time)
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Eevee on October 03, 2020, 04:40:18 am
Oh we're back! Just in time for me to miss the first IRL day, I wont be able to get to this before sunday.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: SpaceAnemone on October 03, 2020, 08:00:51 am
vote: space

I think the Glooble wagon is going to be interesting for PoE later after a few people have flipped, but I'm not really feeling that vote any more.

Vote: Joseph

Pretty sure I've given Joseph the benefit of the doubt before in justifying something he'd done that would have been a mistake as town as just careless play, only to have had it turn out that he was scum, so maybe I should learn to put less of a "careless town" prior on him sometime. At the very least, it's a vote against people retconning their narratives about voting reasoning.

PPE 2.

This is scummy as hell. Space abandons one wagon with next to no reasoning and joins another with reasoning that's largely based on meta. It's a weak vote, and at the point it happens it heavily shifts the exile onto be joseph

May I remind you of my carefully-presented logic for being on the Glooble wagon to begin with? Here's the case I posted when  I voted:

I'm finding that I really like this compelling argument from Glooble himself:

Wagons are good. So huzzah!

Vote: Glooble

Basically, it was a wagon with the IC and a townread on it, and I wanted to see who else would hitch themselves on if it looked like it had even a smidge of support, since that would be great PoE for me.

As for Joseph, there was a non-negligible case. I stand by my belief that scum!Joseph has previously used the fact he's occasionally prone to not thinking things through as a cover for scummy actions, though my memory is holey enough that I can't give you specific game references.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: SpaceAnemone on October 03, 2020, 08:05:34 am
That's only scummy if Glooble is scum. And if you think that, you should probably vote for Glooble.

Weirdly, all this does for me is make me mildly worried about the possibility Glooble is scum and I'll look bad if he flips as such :-P

As I said to ADK, my Glooble vote was based on wanting to see how the wagon fared, rather than me finding him scummy, but at the same time, that doesn't mean I have a particular townread on him. Though probably he's someone I should form an opinion on if I'm going to have people trying to tie my alignment to his.

Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: SpaceAnemone on October 03, 2020, 08:09:12 am
At the moment, I still have a residual townread on ADK. I had been worried about the amount of weird direct Eevee interactions, but that has faded now. I'm glad we still have an IC, and I agree with EFHW that it may mean we have an active Doctor, which scum would know about if they have a two-shot roleblocker.

Oh, and to save anyone else having to look it up, MiX's Rotweiller role means that he was the town roleblocker. I don't think he'd crumb ahead of time whom he was going to block, would he? Also, if we have a scum roleblocker, there's a chance his target could have NKd after all, if MiX himself was roleblocked, though the more layers there are, the less likely everything gets.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: faust on October 03, 2020, 08:14:07 am
Oh, and to save anyone else having to look it up, MiX's Rotweiller role means that he was the town roleblocker. I don't think he'd crumb ahead of time whom he was going to block, would he? Also, if we have a scum roleblocker, there's a chance his target could have NKd after all, if MiX himself was roleblocked, though the more layers there are, the less likely everything gets.
It makes very little sense for scum to be blocking the player they're killing.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on October 03, 2020, 08:34:00 am
(or EFHW I guess, that wagon was also kind of viable at the time)

This. There's two possible partners for space to be deflecting from
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: EFHW on October 03, 2020, 09:38:17 am
I don't think they were, though.  The votes simply weren't there for me or Glooble.  If they were partners with Glooble, they should have stayed on him. My wagon was never strong enough to surpass Glooble's or Joseph's, so again, better not to deflect.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: EFHW on October 03, 2020, 09:43:52 am
Also, with a third partner and daychat, wagon positioning  would be easier than usual with less need for risky moves.  I think we had 3 town wagons.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on October 03, 2020, 01:27:14 pm
I don't think they were, though.  The votes simply weren't there for me or Glooble.  If they were partners with Glooble, they should have stayed on him. My wagon was never strong enough to surpass Glooble's or Joseph's, so again, better not to deflect.

The votes weren't on you at the time but more than one person had previously voted for you or expressed a willingness to vote for you. The situation when space voted was three wagons, with 4, 4, and 3 votes; with the deadline coming up, a push onto any one of them could have resulted in an exile. The fact that space stepped forward to make that push on a player they had previously expressed zero opinion on reads extremely scummy to me
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Swowl on October 03, 2020, 04:02:32 pm
Vote Count 2.1:

Space (1): ADK

Not Voting (10): Dylan, WCD, EFHW, Galz, faust, chairs, Eevee, Space, Robz, Glooble

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
Day 2 ends on October 9th at 6:15PM Forum Time.


Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: SpaceAnemone on October 03, 2020, 05:59:00 pm
ADK, here's a load of reasoning around where I moved my vote before calling it a night:

I was definitely moving away from Glooble, because as I explained before, I'd voted there just because it was a good PoE wagon, not because I though there was a high chance of him being scum. If you're saying that not staying on the Glooble wagon was the thing you think was scummy, then sorry, I never was going to leave my deadline vote there unless a decent case against him sprung up, and it didn't.

I could have moved to EFHW, leaving her level with Joseph on 4. But I wasn't scumreading her, and that may have left three locked European votes on her, making it harder for the people still awake to get any other exile through. That could have been seen as very scummy if EFHW is town.

I could also have moved to you, but that would be silly, because at that point you were a townread. I think you're still a townread, though being accused of scummy behaviour for something that was town-motivated and perfectly sensible is a bit frustrating.

I could have moved to anyone other than Joseph, but that could have been really annoying for the rest of town because of removing consolidation potential just before deadline.

So I moved to Joseph. When am I usually not willing to vote for Joseph? It irked me that he was not owning up to his mistake or clearing up the ambiguity for everyone, even after I'd made a post at #353 giving him the benefit of the doubt around that. When I voted I made it clear it was a removing-the-benefit-of-the-doubt kind of thing.

Lastly, our IC himself made the switch only two posts later, with the only post in between being me clarifying which people were likely to have to lock their votes and leave around that point. I'm sorry if you're upset that your preferred wagon fizzled, I'm sorry that we ended up exiling town, and I'm really sorry if Glooble was the correct choice and my super-Joseph-case influenced Robz to the point that he made the same scummy switch that I did. But I promise you neither of us is scum!
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on October 03, 2020, 06:23:38 pm
ADK, here's a load of reasoning around where I moved my vote before calling it a night:

I was definitely moving away from Glooble, because as I explained before, I'd voted there just because it was a good PoE wagon, not because I though there was a high chance of him being scum. If you're saying that not staying on the Glooble wagon was the thing you think was scummy, then sorry, I never was going to leave my deadline vote there unless a decent case against him sprung up, and it didn't.

I could have moved to EFHW, leaving her level with Joseph on 4. But I wasn't scumreading her, and that may have left three locked European votes on her, making it harder for the people still awake to get any other exile through. That could have been seen as very scummy if EFHW is town.

I could also have moved to you, but that would be silly, because at that point you were a townread. I think you're still a townread, though being accused of scummy behaviour for something that was town-motivated and perfectly sensible is a bit frustrating.

I could have moved to anyone other than Joseph, but that could have been really annoying for the rest of town because of removing consolidation potential just before deadline.

So I moved to Joseph. When am I usually not willing to vote for Joseph? It irked me that he was not owning up to his mistake or clearing up the ambiguity for everyone, even after I'd made a post at #353 giving him the benefit of the doubt around that. When I voted I made it clear it was a removing-the-benefit-of-the-doubt kind of thing.

Lastly, our IC himself made the switch only two posts later, with the only post in between being me clarifying which people were likely to have to lock their votes and leave around that point. I'm sorry if you're upset that your preferred wagon fizzled, I'm sorry that we ended up exiling town, and I'm really sorry if Glooble was the correct choice and my super-Joseph-case influenced Robz to the point that he made the same scummy switch that I did. But I promise you neither of us is scum!

Who is, then?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: chairs on October 03, 2020, 07:02:11 pm
I feel pretty good about Space based on these posts.

It doesn't make me feel better about glooble, but it makes me feel better about space.

I know weekends are quiet, but I'd like to see some more participation.

vote: faust
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on October 03, 2020, 07:11:04 pm
vote: chairs
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Robz888 on October 03, 2020, 07:29:19 pm
Sorry, busy weekend. Glad Iím still alive.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: EFHW on October 03, 2020, 07:29:32 pm
I don't think they were, though.  The votes simply weren't there for me or Glooble.  If they were partners with Glooble, they should have stayed on him. My wagon was never strong enough to surpass Glooble's or Joseph's, so again, better not to deflect.

The votes weren't on you at the time but more than one person had previously voted for you or expressed a willingness to vote for you. The situation when space voted was three wagons, with 4, 4, and 3 votes; with the deadline coming up, a push onto any one of them could have resulted in an exile. The fact that space stepped forward to make that push on a player they had previously expressed zero opinion on reads extremely scummy to me

I agree their vote was a turning point. I thought their Joseph comments before and after the switch were very apt, both addressing the theory put forth by Dylan. 
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: SpaceAnemone on October 03, 2020, 08:01:15 pm
Who is, then?

If I knew that, I'd put forward some better cases.

Let's do some partial reasoning. If we assume that all EoD wagons were town, then I think the people to look most closely at are Dylan on-wagon, and then any of the remaining off-wagon people, though I feel like Chairs has been more uncharacteristic than the others two so far, so that's where I'd start.

My reason for Dylan is the wagon placement, and the fact that he was doing the clearest job of articulating the issue with Joseph's in-thread error. That could come from a place of thinking he'd caught scum, but equally it's a very role for scum to occupy if they can get themselves there. Same could be said of Eevee's position, but I already took a look at Eevee, having been a bit suspicious before, so I think he's okay for now. Also Glooble and EFHW being on-wagon is entirely unsurprising if they're alternate wagons and know themselves to be town (which they are in this all-wagons-on-town scenario).

My Chairs reasoning is the fact he's been a bit more talkative than I'm used to seeing, plus he was the one who joined the Glooble wagon after me, albeit after Robz had moved away. He also joined the Joseph wagon in 6th position the first time it grew to six votes, though moved away when it dropped down to five, ending the day off-wagon (on ADK). Oh, and reading back over Chairs, he was also the third person to quick-join the sudden Didds wagon that appeared really suddenly, so that's a little suspicious.

Now let's assume Glooble was scum. I don't think  my reasoning changes much. He's a reasonable possible partner for Dylan if the latter is scum, and doesn't sway the chairs thinking one way or another.

Finally, what if EFHW is scum? Her Joseph hammer was pretty far before deadline, so that could be because scum just wanted to lock in the mixile. OTOH, she was herself the second-biggest wagon at the time she hammered, so it's not unreasonable to go for that. If EFHW is scum, I think Chairs is marginally less likely to be, because Chairs moved off Joseph onto ADK, whom at that point only had EFHW voting for them, and it's an odd place to concentrate 2/3 of the scumteam's votes. I'm not sure about Dylan-EFHW as a pairing. Dylan did vote EFHW at one point early on, and the two of them were the last two to throw down any votes in D1 overall.

So yeah, if EFHW's scummy then I'm not sure what to think, and otherwise I think Chairs and Dylan deserve scrutiny. Oh, and an honourable mention for Didds, who is the only non-green-coloured name on the EFHW wagon from #361 all the way to EoD1. If EFHW is green too, then Didds could well be scum, though there's some wifom around the fact that scum chose to flip MiX over Robz, though there may have been other more direct factors steering their choice.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Glooble on October 03, 2020, 08:05:07 pm
Just checking in to say I totally spaced out and forgot about this game. I'll read the day so far and weigh in tonight after my game night.

Sorry!
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on October 03, 2020, 08:07:29 pm
My instinct is that the people who followed dylan onto joseph are much more likely to be scum than he is, particularly since pretty much every one of those votes was justified by saying "Dylan's case seems solid". If he's scum he's bold scum, and I don't feel like I've played enough with him to tell if that's his style
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: SpaceAnemone on October 03, 2020, 08:29:18 pm
My instinct is that the people who followed dylan onto joseph are much more likely to be scum than he is, particularly since pretty much every one of those votes was justified by saying "Dylan's case seems solid". If he's scum he's bold scum, and I don't feel like I've played enough with him to tell if that's his style

I would believe you if it wasn't such a cut'n'dry error on Joseph's part. Also, Dylan would be more likely to pick up on this mistake more readily than almost all other players as either town!Dylan or scum!Dylan, because Dylan knew that they were the other person in the EFHW-Dylan-Joseph trio, rather than Glooble.

Also, this is waaay past the time I should be asleep and not playing mafia any more.. please don't expect me to be posting this late for other days in the game :-)
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 03, 2020, 11:31:46 pm
Oh, I love it when Space shows up and starts making some links between things.  I especially appreciate it today because I am inside-out, bone tired and the clarity of thought is so far beyond what I can even begin to manage.

I am still thinking vote: EFHW is the right way to go
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Dylan32 on October 04, 2020, 02:02:04 am
Checking in, and man I'm disappointed. I was already ready to start reading for partner interactions, but now I just have to reread everything...  The rest of this is stream of consciousness as I catch up on D2.

I'm not totally sure why scum killed MiX, but I'm glad I won't have the opportunity to start second guessing my read on him to the exclusion of other reads like the past.

Space #444 - I think towny Space here, definitely need to reread their D1 though.

ADK #451 - not a bad point here though, although I do think this is only scummy for Space if one of the other wagons was on scum.

VC 2.1 - This isn't based on reads, but reading through the names, Didds, Galz, and Eevee stick out, so I'm going to call that as the scum team. That's not based on any specific reads at all, and I probably shouldn't even say it, but if that's right I just want to have it in the record for the hindsight. I'll reread those three later to see if there's anything behind that instinct.

Space #453 - Paints a pretty good town!Space narrative. However, I've noticed a couple times D2 already, here ("That could have been seen as very scummy if EFHW is town.") and #445 ("... and I'll look bad if he flips as such :-P "), where they have talked about the optics of how they could come across as scummy in different scenarios, and this isn't something I remember Space being this aware of, or rather, it's not something I remember Space talking about explicitly at least. After all, I'm sure we all think about that as either alignment at times, but they don't normally use that in their arguments as far as I recall.

chairs #455 - I'm curious as to why faust here. Is it just poking with a stick so he'll do something, or is there some kind of read-based reason?

Who is, then?

--snip--


Same could be said of Eevee's position, but I already took a look at Eevee, having been a bit suspicious before, so I think he's okay for now.

--snip--


That sentence comes across as extremely scum!partnery to me rather than just "I'm leaning town on Eevee."

ADK #461 - Yeah, I'm definitely not a little wary about some of the people who joined me without any kind of questioning or explanation. Like there were a couple (don't remember who and not going back right now) that went back and forth on thinking if it was actually a scum case or town mistake, and I think those people are more likely to be the other town folks on that wagon with me.  Also, as much as I would love to say I don't think I would be that bold as scum, honestly it's probably NAI. I might be a little more hesitant in general to play like that as scum, but in this scenario, I probably would have latched onto that either way. Actually, now that I think about it, as scum, I probably would have softened as Joseph's wagon faded the first time in order to hop on a different misexile while keeping Joseph under scrutiny hoping for any other slight inconsistency to be able to push the misexile through on a later day. But I guess this means nothing but wifom.

Space #462 - Yeah, knowing that I was the other person is definitely why I caught that. I actually saw it after Joseph made the initial mistake, but at the time I just assumed he typed the wrong name (like I guess he really did), but then the justification just didn't make sense to me, and maybe I was totally misreading what he was saying. With hindsight, I wish a couple other people had defended Joseph a little less and let him speak for himself to possibly clear that up.

Didds #463 - Why were you originally thinking EFHW was the right way to go?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Dylan32 on October 04, 2020, 02:04:25 am
Ladies and gentlemen, tip your waitresses, don't play mafia at 1 am, and try the veal.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Glooble on October 04, 2020, 10:03:31 am
I'm halfway through a reread of Day 1 and I have to go to church now, but I wanted to get a thought down- Dylan's realization of Joseph's mistake and subsequent push for a Joseph exile came when Joseph already had a number of votes on him for a number of different reasons. One of these votes is from Robz. I hadn't realized this- for some reason I had it in my head that Dylan had started the Joseph wagon. To me, this strengthens the Dylan scum narrative a bit- Dylan might have seen Joseph's mistake while looking back at Joseph's post in search of a way to push that wagon, which would be safer with Robz already there.

That being said, I'm still townreading Dylan more than I'm scumreading him. The people I'm a little more suspicious of on this reread so far are EFHW and chairs. Chairs does a lot of lazily jumping on wagons without much explanation. EFHW is more of a gut feeling at this point.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Robz888 on October 04, 2020, 10:26:46 am
We should definitely not exile space, since they seem townie and for them to be scum Glooble would be even more likely to be scum.

MiX is a weird kill to me. In my last scum game, my team tried to use the amount of attention and distraction he generates to our advantage. Obviously this scum team did not see similar value here.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Robz888 on October 04, 2020, 10:28:18 am
ADK/Eevee/Glooble? Thatís the team most likely to kill MiX! Maybe a real expert scum team would expect me to think this if they killed MiX, though.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: EFHW on October 04, 2020, 11:29:44 am
We should definitely not exile space, since they seem townie and for them to be scum Glooble would be even more likely to be scum.

MiX is a weird kill to me. In my last scum game, my team tried to use the amount of attention and distraction he generates to our advantage. Obviously this scum team did not see similar value here.

Well, he's extremely difficult to misexile.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: EFHW on October 04, 2020, 11:33:13 am
I guess they could also be trying to make me look bad, since MiX was dead-set on exiling me. I also often advocate nk'g MiX when I am scum.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: EFHW on October 04, 2020, 11:58:41 am
re: Dylan's long post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20512.msg855056#msg855056), I agree with him on most of his points. I don't have a scumread on Galzria, though.

People who were excited by Dylan's scum!Joseph narrative: Dylan, Galzria, Eevee, Glooble, chairs.
People who were not: EFHW, Didds, faust, Space, ADK, Robz, MiX (?).

I think it's reasonable to assume there is at least one scum in {Galz, Eevee, Glooble, chairs}.


Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: faust on October 04, 2020, 01:10:02 pm
Vote: chairs
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on October 04, 2020, 01:32:19 pm
re: Dylan's long post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20512.msg855056#msg855056), I agree with him on most of his points. I don't have a scumread on Galzria, though.

People who were excited by Dylan's scum!Joseph narrative: Dylan, Galzria, Eevee, Glooble, chairs.
People who were not: EFHW, Didds, faust, Space, ADK, Robz, MiX (?).

I think it's reasonable to assume there is at least one scum in {Galz, Eevee, Glooble, chairs}.

It's odd that you include yourself on that second list even though you were the one who hammered him
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: faust on October 04, 2020, 01:38:51 pm
re: Dylan's long post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20512.msg855056#msg855056), I agree with him on most of his points. I don't have a scumread on Galzria, though.

People who were excited by Dylan's scum!Joseph narrative: Dylan, Galzria, Eevee, Glooble, chairs.
People who were not: EFHW, Didds, faust, Space, ADK, Robz, MiX (?).

I think it's reasonable to assume there is at least one scum in {Galz, Eevee, Glooble, chairs}.

It's odd that you include yourself on that second list even though you were the one who hammered him
Why is that odd?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on October 04, 2020, 01:44:07 pm
re: Dylan's long post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20512.msg855056#msg855056), I agree with him on most of his points. I don't have a scumread on Galzria, though.

People who were excited by Dylan's scum!Joseph narrative: Dylan, Galzria, Eevee, Glooble, chairs.
People who were not: EFHW, Didds, faust, Space, ADK, Robz, MiX (?).

I think it's reasonable to assume there is at least one scum in {Galz, Eevee, Glooble, chairs}.

It's odd that you include yourself on that second list even though you were the one who hammered him
Why is that odd?

Maybe I should go back and look at what EFHW said about joseph pre-hammer
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on October 04, 2020, 01:49:20 pm
EFHW expresses a townread of joseph in 379 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20512.msg854746#msg854746), so I guess that answers that

Given that glooble and joseph were the two leading candidates at that point, I don't think scum!EFHW commits to a townread on joseph if glooble is her partner. So I'm willing to rule out a EFHW/glooble scumteam
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Galzria on October 04, 2020, 01:55:05 pm
Sorry all - will catch up today.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: chairs on October 04, 2020, 02:06:59 pm
Okay good, my faust vote got d2 convos rolling. I can unvote now.

unvote

Leaning Gloobs but I want to actually take some time to reread.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: faust on October 04, 2020, 02:47:18 pm
Okay good, my faust vote got d2 convos rolling. I can unvote now.

unvote

Leaning Gloobs but I want to actually take some time to reread.
What kind of conversations do you think wouldn't have happened without that vote?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: faust on October 05, 2020, 07:09:23 am
Lame.

I think I understand why scum killed MiX.

I feel like ADK is putting a lot of questionable ideas out there and it makes me want to vote for them, but it's better than no content.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: faust on October 05, 2020, 07:17:52 am
I'd love to hear some thoughts from Glooble on his D1 wagon.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on October 05, 2020, 07:30:58 am
Lame.

I think I understand why scum killed MiX.

I feel like ADK is putting a lot of questionable ideas out there and it makes me want to vote for them, but it's better than no content.

You're probably my only solid townread at this point so I appreciate if you wouldn't. Which of my ideas are questionable?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: faust on October 05, 2020, 08:08:39 am
You're probably my only solid townread at this point so I appreciate if you wouldn't. Which of my ideas are questionable?

Some bits I find weird:

(or EFHW I guess, that wagon was also kind of viable at the time)

This. There's two possible partners for space to be deflecting from
So if Space was scum partnered with EFHW (let's assume that Glooble is town) then does it make sense for Space to switch votes from Glooble to Joseph when they did? I am not convinced. All that achieves is create a situation where instead of 2 town wagons vs 1 scum wagon you have 1 town wagons vs 1 scum wagon. And let's not forget that Space was on the IC-approved wagon at the time.

Basically, I don't think your narrative for scum!Space makes much sense. Unless Glooble is scum. But since it only holds any water if Glooble is scum, you should be going after Glooble.

My instinct is that the people who followed dylan onto joseph are much more likely to be scum than he is, particularly since pretty much every one of those votes was justified by saying "Dylan's case seems solid". If he's scum he's bold scum, and I don't feel like I've played enough with him to tell if that's his style
Feels to me like Dylan giving a solid case on town frees up scum to do pretty much whatever. They don't really need to push Joseph if there is enough of a case there to convince town to do the dirty work for them. I don't see why jumping on that wagon would be a scum move.

EFHW expresses a townread of joseph in 379 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20512.msg854746#msg854746), so I guess that answers that

Given that glooble and joseph were the two leading candidates at that point, I don't think scum!EFHW commits to a townread on joseph if glooble is her partner. So I'm willing to rule out a EFHW/glooble scumteam
First of all at the time of EFHW's post she had just as many votes as Glooble. Second, if Glooble is EFHW's partner then they probably don't both want to end up on the Joseph wagon, that's just bad PR. I don't think that post warrants excluding an EFHW/Glooble scumteam.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: chairs on October 05, 2020, 08:24:19 am
Okay good, my faust vote got d2 convos rolling. I can unvote now.

unvote

Leaning Gloobs but I want to actually take some time to reread.
What kind of conversations do you think wouldn't have happened without that vote?

I wanted to see reactions. I thought maybe I could catch scum out with a little early pile on - you seem pretty Town, but I figured maybe we'd get one of them to take the bait and see if a faust wagon could roll. Instead, I get called out a bit for the vote, which has value all its own.


You're probably my only solid townread at this point so I appreciate if you wouldn't. Which of my ideas are questionable?

Some bits I find weird:

(or EFHW I guess, that wagon was also kind of viable at the time)

This. There's two possible partners for space to be deflecting from
So if Space was scum partnered with EFHW (let's assume that Glooble is town) then does it make sense for Space to switch votes from Glooble to Joseph when they did? I am not convinced. All that achieves is create a situation where instead of 2 town wagons vs 1 scum wagon you have 1 town wagons vs 1 scum wagon. And let's not forget that Space was on the IC-approved wagon at the time.

Basically, I don't think your narrative for scum!Space makes much sense. Unless Glooble is scum. But since it only holds any water if Glooble is scum, you should be going after Glooble.

My instinct is that the people who followed dylan onto joseph are much more likely to be scum than he is, particularly since pretty much every one of those votes was justified by saying "Dylan's case seems solid". If he's scum he's bold scum, and I don't feel like I've played enough with him to tell if that's his style
Feels to me like Dylan giving a solid case on town frees up scum to do pretty much whatever. They don't really need to push Joseph if there is enough of a case there to convince town to do the dirty work for them. I don't see why jumping on that wagon would be a scum move.

EFHW expresses a townread of joseph in 379 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20512.msg854746#msg854746), so I guess that answers that

Given that glooble and joseph were the two leading candidates at that point, I don't think scum!EFHW commits to a townread on joseph if glooble is her partner. So I'm willing to rule out a EFHW/glooble scumteam
First of all at the time of EFHW's post she had just as many votes as Glooble. Second, if Glooble is EFHW's partner then they probably don't both want to end up on the Joseph wagon, that's just bad PR. I don't think that post warrants excluding an EFHW/Glooble scumteam.

I actually like ADK's logic here, overall, and I'll
vote: Glooble.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on October 05, 2020, 08:43:42 am
Okay good, my faust vote got d2 convos rolling. I can unvote now.

unvote

Leaning Gloobs but I want to actually take some time to reread.
What kind of conversations do you think wouldn't have happened without that vote?

I wanted to see reactions. I thought maybe I could catch scum out with a little early pile on - you seem pretty Town, but I figured maybe we'd get one of them to take the bait and see if a faust wagon could roll. Instead, I get called out a bit for the vote, which has value all its own.


You're probably my only solid townread at this point so I appreciate if you wouldn't. Which of my ideas are questionable?

Some bits I find weird:

(or EFHW I guess, that wagon was also kind of viable at the time)

This. There's two possible partners for space to be deflecting from
So if Space was scum partnered with EFHW (let's assume that Glooble is town) then does it make sense for Space to switch votes from Glooble to Joseph when they did? I am not convinced. All that achieves is create a situation where instead of 2 town wagons vs 1 scum wagon you have 1 town wagons vs 1 scum wagon. And let's not forget that Space was on the IC-approved wagon at the time.

Basically, I don't think your narrative for scum!Space makes much sense. Unless Glooble is scum. But since it only holds any water if Glooble is scum, you should be going after Glooble.

My instinct is that the people who followed dylan onto joseph are much more likely to be scum than he is, particularly since pretty much every one of those votes was justified by saying "Dylan's case seems solid". If he's scum he's bold scum, and I don't feel like I've played enough with him to tell if that's his style
Feels to me like Dylan giving a solid case on town frees up scum to do pretty much whatever. They don't really need to push Joseph if there is enough of a case there to convince town to do the dirty work for them. I don't see why jumping on that wagon would be a scum move.

EFHW expresses a townread of joseph in 379 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20512.msg854746#msg854746), so I guess that answers that

Given that glooble and joseph were the two leading candidates at that point, I don't think scum!EFHW commits to a townread on joseph if glooble is her partner. So I'm willing to rule out a EFHW/glooble scumteam
First of all at the time of EFHW's post she had just as many votes as Glooble. Second, if Glooble is EFHW's partner then they probably don't both want to end up on the Joseph wagon, that's just bad PR. I don't think that post warrants excluding an EFHW/Glooble scumteam.

I actually like ADK's logic here, overall, and I'll
vote: Glooble.

What about my posts make you want to vote for glooble?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on October 05, 2020, 08:44:58 am
My instinct is that the people who followed dylan onto joseph are much more likely to be scum than he is, particularly since pretty much every one of those votes was justified by saying "Dylan's case seems solid". If he's scum he's bold scum, and I don't feel like I've played enough with him to tell if that's his style
Feels to me like Dylan giving a solid case on town frees up scum to do pretty much whatever. They don't really need to push Joseph if there is enough of a case there to convince town to do the dirty work for them. I don't see why jumping on that wagon would be a scum move.

Do you think that scum left the wagon alone, then? Or is it all just NAI?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: faust on October 05, 2020, 08:47:59 am
My instinct is that the people who followed dylan onto joseph are much more likely to be scum than he is, particularly since pretty much every one of those votes was justified by saying "Dylan's case seems solid". If he's scum he's bold scum, and I don't feel like I've played enough with him to tell if that's his style
Feels to me like Dylan giving a solid case on town frees up scum to do pretty much whatever. They don't really need to push Joseph if there is enough of a case there to convince town to do the dirty work for them. I don't see why jumping on that wagon would be a scum move.

Do you think that scum left the wagon alone, then? Or is it all just NAI?
I think what scum did depends heavily on the alignment of the competing wagons. If all wagons were town, then likely scum would rather have pushed elsewhere. Otherwise it's trickier.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: faust on October 05, 2020, 08:53:13 am
EFHW, I could not find anything about your read on Glooble. Do you have one and if so how did it develop?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: EFHW on October 05, 2020, 09:36:03 am
I think he's town. His reactions feel town. Like MiX said, he reads like someone without partners. I guess Robz and ADK found his MiX vote here  (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20512.msg854223#msg854223)scummy, but I don't see it.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: faust on October 05, 2020, 09:45:46 am
I think he's town. His reactions feel town. Like MiX said, he reads like someone without partners. I guess Robz and ADK found his MiX vote here  (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20512.msg854223#msg854223)scummy, but I don't see it.
I still don't know what that means, and sadly MiX died before he could explain. Maybe you can take up the mantle?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: EFHW on October 05, 2020, 10:24:47 am
I think he's town. His reactions feel town. Like MiX said, he reads like someone without partners. I guess Robz and ADK found his MiX vote here  (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20512.msg854223#msg854223)scummy, but I don't see it.
I still don't know what that means, and sadly MiX died before he could explain. Maybe you can take up the mantle?

I think MiX said he is alone against the world, and I can see that in Glooble's reactions. It's possible that Glooble came up with a scum strategy to try to set up ADK, but to me he seemed to actually feel betrayed. I think scum would take mishaps more philosophically and scum with daychat would be especially self-contained because they have a place to express their frustrations and discuss strategies.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on October 05, 2020, 10:44:17 am
I think he's town. His reactions feel town. Like MiX said, he reads like someone without partners. I guess Robz and ADK found his MiX vote here  (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20512.msg854223#msg854223)scummy, but I don't see it.
I still don't know what that means, and sadly MiX died before he could explain. Maybe you can take up the mantle?

I think MiX said he is alone against the world, and I can see that in Glooble's reactions. It's possible that Glooble came up with a scum strategy to try to set up ADK, but to me he seemed to actually feel betrayed. I think scum would take mishaps more philosophically and scum with daychat would be especially self-contained because they have a place to express their frustrations and discuss strategies.

I think scum is more likely to express their frustration in the main thread because they know it likely get them townread
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: EFHW on October 05, 2020, 10:48:37 am
I think he's town. His reactions feel town. Like MiX said, he reads like someone without partners. I guess Robz and ADK found his MiX vote here  (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20512.msg854223#msg854223)scummy, but I don't see it.
I still don't know what that means, and sadly MiX died before he could explain. Maybe you can take up the mantle?

I think MiX said he is alone against the world, and I can see that in Glooble's reactions. It's possible that Glooble came up with a scum strategy to try to set up ADK, but to me he seemed to actually feel betrayed. I think scum would take mishaps more philosophically and scum with daychat would be especially self-contained because they have a place to express their frustrations and discuss strategies.

I think scum is more likely to express their frustration in the main thread because they know it likely get them townread

That definitely happens. I don't know about more likely. It comes down to whether they can be convincing.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Eevee on October 05, 2020, 12:34:04 pm
Catching up now.

My instinct is that the people who followed dylan onto joseph are much more likely to be scum than he is, particularly since pretty much every one of those votes was justified by saying "Dylan's case seems solid". If he's scum he's bold scum, and I don't feel like I've played enough with him to tell if that's his style

This is a really good point I think.



Space seems more than usually preoccupied with how she's coming off as, and maybe kind of overexplaining herself? The points she's making make logical sense to me though, but she's so eloquent that maybe I shouldn't read too much into it.

ADK continues to look towny to me, also think Glooble is probably town from yesterday. I think Dylan is towny for pushing Joseph, paradoxically enough. faust I don't have much of an impression on yet which is weird, same for Galzria which I'd say makes both more than mildly suspicious.

I would guess that scum killed Mix because he's headstrong and his reads were good, at least in some capacity? Could also be a sign for Robz that his reads yesterday were not correct.

Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 05, 2020, 01:47:44 pm
Didds #463 - Why were you originally thinking EFHW was the right way to go?

Most of it is feels, but I found her extended discussion with MiX on D1 was a lot of material with very little content.  My thought was one of them was scummy based on that, and her more so than him.  Her general level of activity is rather higher than normal, but these are strange times...my level is lower than normal b/c of work so that isn't a huge factor. Finally, the way she joined the quick wagon on me, then unvoted when she realized I hadn't voted for Joseph but then snarked at me for being distracted was all kind of off feeling.  The reason I went back to voting for her was the hammer long before deadline when she had said that she thought him town. Not super scummy, but not redeeming either. Added to the fact that she was Mixy's top scum read, its seems a better place to be than anywhere else at the moment. I am not so certain about my feelings that I am gonna get on my pony and ride around arguing my case, but I don't see any reason to move my vote. 

Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Swowl on October 05, 2020, 01:53:59 pm
Vote Count 2.2:
chairs (2): ADK, faust
EFHW (1): WCD
Glooble (1): chairs

Not Voting (7): Dylan, EFHW, Galz, Eevee, Space, Robz, Glooble

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
Day 2 ends on October 9th at 6:15PM Forum Time.




***Alright all you filthy animals.... I am going camping for a few days and will only be able to check in on you once a day.... try and behave while I am gone!***
--- I will have limited access until Thursday afternoon.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: faust on October 05, 2020, 03:22:15 pm
Vote: Glooble
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: EFHW on October 05, 2020, 04:19:14 pm
Vote: Glooble

What's your reasoning?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Glooble on October 05, 2020, 04:46:12 pm
Question for chairs. What changed between here:

Vote: glooble

I think the adk glooble interaction has me ready to vote one of them off the island and I think glooble has come off scummier in the interactions, personally.

and here:

Am I really lurking that much? Man, sorry. It doesn't feel like it on my end.

I think this it Town gloobs

I think the ADK argument from gloobs makes a lot of sense.

Vote: adk

And now you're back on me again?



I'd love to hear some thoughts from Glooble on his D1 wagon.

Well, I've talked about ADK a lot. Robz is town. MiX was town. So that leave you, chairs and Space (taht's everyone who voted for me at all, I think.) See above for chairs- he goes back and forth between me and ADK in a way that I think it honestly pretty scummy. Space's initial vote for me reads like a joke vote. The weirdest thing is that they defend it like it was more serious than it initially appeared. Your vote doesn't come with a lot of explanation, I assume you just thought I was a better wagon than Joseph. But my wagon never had much substance to it.

Most likely scum is chairs I think. I'm still wary of ADK but my scumread on them has cooled somewhat, I think it was a little too emotionally motivated.

vote: chairs

PPE: faust voting for me
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: SpaceAnemone on October 05, 2020, 05:24:59 pm
MiX is a weird kill to me. In my last scum game, my team tried to use the amount of attention and distraction he generates to our advantage. Obviously this scum team did not see similar value here.

Yeah, we left MiX alive and misfiring to great effect there, but the fact remains he's a high-volume poster, so if the scumteam thought he was too townie, they may have wanted him out of the way in the hope of stalling the game more or something. I also agree with EFHW that you being alive points to the possibility of a doctor, unless it's some kind of scum gambit, but I'm not sure what advantage they'd think they're getting if leaving you deliberately alive as IC and risking a kill that could have been on a VT seemed worthwhile.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: SpaceAnemone on October 05, 2020, 05:40:18 pm
re: Dylan's long post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20512.msg855056#msg855056), I agree with him on most of his points. I don't have a scumread on Galzria, though.

People who were excited by Dylan's scum!Joseph narrative: Dylan, Galzria, Eevee, Glooble, chairs.
People who were not: EFHW, Didds, faust, Space, ADK, Robz, MiX (?).

I think it's reasonable to assume there is at least one scum in {Galz, Eevee, Glooble, chairs}.

Not quite sure what you mean by "excited" in this context, but I did say to Joseph at #353 that I thought Dylan's criticism was spot on.

I think I'm about 88% sure there's at least one scum in that set of four.. but that's because with two players flipped, an IC, and knowing my own alignment, there are essentially 3 scum in 9 unknown players. Picking any four out of them has only about a 12% chance of not having at least one scum in the group, without taking any reads or behaviour into account.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: chairs on October 05, 2020, 06:59:16 pm
Question for chairs. What changed between here:

Vote: glooble

I think the adk glooble interaction has me ready to vote one of them off the island and I think glooble has come off scummier in the interactions, personally.

and here:

Am I really lurking that much? Man, sorry. It doesn't feel like it on my end.

I think this it Town gloobs

I think the ADK argument from gloobs makes a lot of sense.

Vote: adk

And now you're back on me again?



I'd love to hear some thoughts from Glooble on his D1 wagon.

Well, I've talked about ADK a lot. Robz is town. MiX was town. So that leave you, chairs and Space (taht's everyone who voted for me at all, I think.) See above for chairs- he goes back and forth between me and ADK in a way that I think it honestly pretty scummy. Space's initial vote for me reads like a joke vote. The weirdest thing is that they defend it like it was more serious than it initially appeared. Your vote doesn't come with a lot of explanation, I assume you just thought I was a better wagon than Joseph. But my wagon never had much substance to it.

Most likely scum is chairs I think. I'm still wary of ADK but my scumread on them has cooled somewhat, I think it was a little too emotionally motivated.

vote: chairs

PPE: faust voting for me

What happened mostly is that my votes and reads are mercurial, as always. This is not news ::) I always gutfeel my way through games, and I'm usually only really thinking about the last page or two of posts, tops, unless I have -just- read X pages (and even then, I find I just tie myself in knots if I don't just let everything flow like waves against the shore and see what treasure gets stuck in the sand).
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 05, 2020, 07:10:51 pm
I quite like this use of ďmercurialĒ!
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on October 05, 2020, 08:18:33 pm
vote: chairs

PPE: faust voting for me

Goddamnit, you're town aren't you
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: faust on October 06, 2020, 02:31:07 am
Vote: Glooble

What's your reasoning?
Robz voted for Glooble here:

Vote: Glooble is fine by me, actually. Definitely better than Joseph.
and noone joined in. This is despite Joseph already having claimed VT (meaning scum would prefer another exile). So there's only 2 options: Either the Glooble wagon already had 1-2 scum on it. The wagon at the time was:

Glooble (4): ADK, Space, faust, Robz888

So that would put scum among Space/ADK. But Space abandons the wagon shortly after, which there is no good reason for. So my preliminary conclusion is: There is scum among ADK/Glooble, and right now I'm liking Glooble more for that.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: faust on October 06, 2020, 02:32:27 am
Vote: Glooble

What's your reasoning?
Robz voted for Glooble here:

Vote: Glooble is fine by me, actually. Definitely better than Joseph.
and noone joined in. This is despite Joseph already having claimed VT (meaning scum would prefer another exile). So there's only 2 options: Either the Glooble wagon already had 1-2 scum on it. The wagon at the time was:

Glooble (4): ADK, Space, faust, Robz888

So that would put scum among Space/ADK. But Space abandons the wagon shortly after, which there is no good reason for. So my preliminary conclusion is: There is scum among ADK/Glooble, and right now I'm liking Glooble more for that.
EBWOP: the missing "or" for the "either" is of course "or Glooble is scum".
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: SpaceAnemone on October 06, 2020, 06:11:57 am
Glooble (4): ADK, Space, faust, Robz888

So that would put scum among Space/ADK. But Space abandons the wagon shortly after, which there is no good reason for. So my preliminary conclusion is: There is scum among ADK/Glooble, and right now I'm liking Glooble more for that.

Your communication is perhaps a bit sloppy, but I think the logic holds.

At first, you mean that from your point of view, there's at least one scum in {Glooble, Space, ADK}.

You say there's not good reason for me to abandon the Glooble wagon, though previously you'd agreed with ADK that it would make perfect sense for scum!me to leave a wagon on scum!Glooble. So I think what you mean here is that the only good reason for my move would be if Glooble were scum anyway, hence it being better overall for you to flip Glooble.

Given that, I agree that you can narrow it to at least one scum amongst {ADK, Glooble}, if you assume a four-towns-on-town wagon in this context (e.g. with the presence of the IC giving scum extra permission/courage to vote) is highly unlikely. That wagon configuration you quote persisted from #385, when Robz moved onto Glooble, till #423, when I switched to Joseph. I think everyone except EFHW made at least one post in that interval, so maybe that assumption is actually stronger than for most four-towns-on-town wagons.

Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: SpaceAnemone on October 06, 2020, 06:14:51 am
Looking more at the #385-#423 period, the only vote to happen in there was that Chairs moved from Joseph to ADK at #404. That seems to make a Chairs-Glooble scum partnership unlikely, since it reduces the main competing wagon, making the Glooble-wagon joint-largest.

If Chairs is scum, that would put more suspicion on ADK and (from my point of view) faust, and make Glooble more townie. I think that's worth considering, since I feel like Chairs is playing a kind of different game to normal. Can other people who've played more with Chairs recently reassure me that he's not seeming odd?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 06, 2020, 08:40:10 am
I would be hard pressed to describe chairsí play with any sort of consistency. He is always odd to me. One thing that Iíd say is different in this game is that he is a bit more present than he has been in the past. Obviously there are lots of reasons why that could be that case, but the result is that he has more interactions than normal.

So, if you are finding something off, youíre probably not wrong.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: chairs on October 06, 2020, 09:46:54 am
Sorry for being present?  ;D
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Eevee on October 06, 2020, 10:44:28 am
Looking more at the #385-#423 period, the only vote to happen in there was that Chairs moved from Joseph to ADK at #404. That seems to make a Chairs-Glooble scum partnership unlikely, since it reduces the main competing wagon, making the Glooble-wagon joint-largest.

If Chairs is scum, that would put more suspicion on ADK and (from my point of view) faust, and make Glooble more townie. I think that's worth considering, since I feel like Chairs is playing a kind of different game to normal. Can other people who've played more with Chairs recently reassure me that he's not seeming odd?
I also think he's off. Never a fan of the "I'm just erratic" defense, either.

Vote: chairs
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: EFHW on October 06, 2020, 11:29:31 am
vote: Eevee. He's been voting opportunistically, not scumhunting.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Robz888 on October 06, 2020, 11:48:38 am
Vote: Glooble

Should have stuck with my gut.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 06, 2020, 12:55:39 pm
Vote: Eevee
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Glooble on October 06, 2020, 02:01:48 pm
Someone please explain faust's case on me I legit don't get it.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Eevee on October 06, 2020, 02:06:09 pm
vote: Eevee. He's been voting opportunistically, not scumhunting.
My effort this gameday hasnt been great!
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Eevee on October 06, 2020, 02:07:13 pm
Vote: Glooble

Should have stuck with my gut.
Why? I thought he was one of the townier players d1, admittedly not so anymore d2.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Eevee on October 06, 2020, 02:12:19 pm
vote: Eevee. He's been voting opportunistically, not scumhunting.
My effort this gameday hasnt been great!

Speaking of which, where is Galzria and what does he think?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Glooble on October 06, 2020, 02:27:35 pm
Vote: Glooble

Should have stuck with my gut.
Why? I thought he was one of the townier players d1, admittedly not so anymore d2.

Why? What have I done day 2 that isn't townie. Be specific. Show reciepts.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Glooble on October 06, 2020, 02:27:55 pm
For that matter, what did I do day 1 that was towny?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: faust on October 06, 2020, 04:07:53 pm
Someone please explain faust's case on me I legit don't get it.
Space already explained it.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Swowl on October 06, 2020, 04:34:39 pm
Vote Count 2.3:
chairs (3): ADK, Glooble, Eevee
Glooble (3): chairs, faust, Robz888
Eevee (2): EFHW, WCD

Not Voting (3): Dylan, Galz, Space,

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
Day 2 ends on October 9th at 6:15PM Forum Time.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Dylan32 on October 06, 2020, 06:05:33 pm
Catching up now.

My instinct is that the people who followed dylan onto joseph are much more likely to be scum than he is, particularly since pretty much every one of those votes was justified by saying "Dylan's case seems solid". If he's scum he's bold scum, and I don't feel like I've played enough with him to tell if that's his style

This is a really good point I think.



Space seems more than usually preoccupied with how she's coming off as, and maybe kind of overexplaining herself? The points she's making make logical sense to me though, but she's so eloquent that maybe I shouldn't read too much into it.

ADK continues to look towny to me, also think Glooble is probably town from yesterday. I think Dylan is towny for pushing Joseph, paradoxically enough. faust I don't have much of an impression on yet which is weird, same for Galzria which I'd say makes both more than mildly suspicious.

I would guess that scum killed Mix because he's headstrong and his reads were good, at least in some capacity? Could also be a sign for Robz that his reads yesterday were not correct.

Parts of this post feel off to me.  The first half of the Space bit is a rehash of an observation I made previously.  The next couple sentences seem to be gently nudging away from where some of the focus has been (particularly regarding the number of people scumreading or willing to exile Glooble).  But the next sentence is phrased in such a way to sound like both faust and galz are null ("don't have much of an impression on yet... same for Galz"), but this makes both "more than mildly suspicious." At first read, I was left with the impression of mild suspicion, but the "more than" bit actually suggests that the null read on those two actually makes them both very suspicious.  I don't know, just something about that paragraph feels contrived or forced somehow that reads as not a genuine set of reads.

Didds #463 - Why were you originally thinking EFHW was the right way to go?

Most of it is feels, but I found her extended discussion with MiX on D1 was a lot of material with very little content.  My thought was one of them was scummy based on that, and her more so than him.  Her general level of activity is rather higher than normal, but these are strange times...my level is lower than normal b/c of work so that isn't a huge factor. Finally, the way she joined the quick wagon on me, then unvoted when she realized I hadn't voted for Joseph but then snarked at me for being distracted was all kind of off feeling.  The reason I went back to voting for her was the hammer long before deadline when she had said that she thought him town. Not super scummy, but not redeeming either. Added to the fact that she was Mixy's top scum read, its seems a better place to be than anywhere else at the moment. I am not so certain about my feelings that I am gonna get on my pony and ride around arguing my case, but I don't see any reason to move my vote.

I'd buy that.

re: Dylan's long post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20512.msg855056#msg855056), I agree with him on most of his points. I don't have a scumread on Galzria, though.

People who were excited by Dylan's scum!Joseph narrative: Dylan, Galzria, Eevee, Glooble, chairs.
People who were not: EFHW, Didds, faust, Space, ADK, Robz, MiX (?).

I think it's reasonable to assume there is at least one scum in {Galz, Eevee, Glooble, chairs}.

Not quite sure what you mean by "excited" in this context, but I did say to Joseph at #353 that I thought Dylan's criticism was spot on.

I think I'm about 88% sure there's at least one scum in that set of four.. but that's because with two players flipped, an IC, and knowing my own alignment, there are essentially 3 scum in 9 unknown players. Picking any four out of them has only about a 12% chance of not having at least one scum in the group, without taking any reads or behaviour into account.

Could be misremembering old games, but random math Space is town!Space iirc.

vote: Eevee. He's been voting opportunistically, not scumhunting.

I noticed that too. I don't know that it's the best case today though.

Someone please explain faust's case on me I legit don't get it.
Space already explained it.

I mean, the way I understand it in case Space's explanation didn't is that after Joseph claimed VT, scum would prefer to push through a different exile. The IC stated a preference for glooble over Joseph, and so it would have been easy for scum to follow there instead. Nobody followed though, which means one of the following is likely true: A) glooble is town and 1-2 scum were already on wagon or B) glooble is scum so scum didn't move there (note: scum could have also been bussing scum!glooble already, in which case A and B are not mutually exclusive, although that's probably not the most likely case).

As far as wagon analysis based arguments go, that one seems actually fairly strong to me, so

Vote: glooble

Looking at current wagon comps, I do feel better about {chairs, faust, IC} versus {ADK, glooble, Eevee} or {EFHW, WCD}.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: EFHW on October 06, 2020, 06:21:46 pm
re: scum!Glooble narrative,  scum could have been caught on Joseph's wagon. Having said how great that case was, shifting to town!Glooble would have looked weird. Also, sleeping the IC looks scummy.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on October 06, 2020, 07:04:28 pm
Man I just started maybe townreading glooble, and now there's all this enthusiasm for his exile?

I need to do a reread. That might happen tonight
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Glooble on October 07, 2020, 09:34:50 am
Vote: Glooble

What's your reasoning?
Robz voted for Glooble here:

Vote: Glooble is fine by me, actually. Definitely better than Joseph.
and noone joined in. This is despite Joseph already having claimed VT (meaning scum would prefer another exile). So there's only 2 options: Either the Glooble wagon already had 1-2 scum on it. The wagon at the time was:

Glooble (4): ADK, Space, faust, Robz888

So that would put scum among Space/ADK. But Space abandons the wagon shortly after, which there is no good reason for. So my preliminary conclusion is: There is scum among ADK/Glooble, and right now I'm liking Glooble more for that.

I can't follow this argument at all, so I can't defend against it. Faust says "Either the Glooble wagon already had 1-2 scum on it." but doesn't say what the "or" is. I assume it's "or Glooble is scum". Why? There's a logical leap you're asking us to make here and I'm not seeing it. You think scum would jump to me after Joseph claimed VT to increase their chances of hitting a power role? Why? Who does that? Hitting a power role day 1 is nice, but the primary goal of scum day one is to avoid suspicion. Their decision about whether to jump to me or stay on Joseph is going to be based on that. Joseph claiming VT doesn't factor into it. It would be way safer for scum to be on Joseph- that wagon was also Robz-approved, and Dylan's argument gives solid cover.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Eevee on October 07, 2020, 09:48:58 am
Okay, so went back to reread Glooble. The gist of my townread was that he was more aggressive fingering players for scum than I'd expect scum to be. Basically putting himself out there against Mix (known active and headstrong player who isn't going to back down, not an easy exile),then ADK who at least I was townreading, and finally putting Joseph to early X-1. Not positions scum wants to put themselves in in my opinion. I did think Glooble was a bigger part in putting the Joseph case together, remembered that wrong, but the X-1 vote is a towny thing to do in my opinion, even if it was wrong here, just because scum would know it's wrong and wouldn't want the attention.

Today I think the push on chairs makes sense, as my sheep would indicate. Basically I think Glooble appears to be scumhunting hard without much worry about optics, which is a town trait imo. If this is a scum game, it's a brazen and masterful one.

Man does rereading a specific player give clarity compared to just reading the thread from phone as the posts trickle in and trying to piece together reads that way. I don't anymore think Glooble has been scummy today, and not sure why I did earlier (Robz voting for him probably influenced me some). I'll reread chairs next to see if I agree with my sheep.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Eevee on October 07, 2020, 09:55:23 am
Interesting point, chairs references Glooble WAY more than anyone else in the game. First townreading, then voting, but like one third of his posts have something about Glooble. Not sure what to make of that, but it really stuck out.

Other than that, not the most fruitful reread, players like chairs are tough for me to figure out. Like, he's self-proclaimedly going by feel and a little erratic, which I don't think is a bad way to actually find scum, especially early, but it's also so convenient for scum to hide behind.

@Glooble responding to earlier point:
I meant to say that it's scummy from faust and Galzria (especially Galzria!) to have been such a small factor this far, being how much they usually influence the game. It's not even about the activity level, just that they aren't really a big part of discussion in any way, although (my feel without rereading is) that faust has been coming to the center more. It's kind of a scum read borne from lack of towny evidence, if you will. For guys with their reputation, laying low early makes a lot of sense as scum, because it's tough to be the at the center of the attention for days on end and avoid the exile every time.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: faust on October 07, 2020, 10:46:19 am
It would be way safer for scum to be on Joseph- that wagon was also Robz-approved, and Dylan's argument gives solid cover.
What makes you say that the Joseph wagon was Robz-approved?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Glooble on October 07, 2020, 10:50:08 am
It would be way safer for scum to be on Joseph- that wagon was also Robz-approved, and Dylan's argument gives solid cover.
What makes you say that the Joseph wagon was Robz-approved?

The part where Robz voted for Joseph before Dylan made his case.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: faust on October 07, 2020, 10:51:52 am
Okay, so went back to reread Glooble. The gist of my townread was that he was more aggressive fingering players for scum than I'd expect scum to be. Basically putting himself out there against Mix (known active and headstrong player who isn't going to back down, not an easy exile),then ADK who at least I was townreading, and finally putting Joseph to early X-1. Not positions scum wants to put themselves in in my opinion. I did think Glooble was a bigger part in putting the Joseph case together, remembered that wrong, but the X-1 vote is a towny thing to do in my opinion, even if it was wrong here, just because scum would know it's wrong and wouldn't want the attention.
Re: scumreading MiX - actually perfect for scum, it's good to be pushing some wagon that won't succeed, you look like you're doing something but won't be caught up in a misexile. I also don't think that having pushed two confirmed townies is particularly good evidence for Glooble being town, as scumhunting hard for that matter.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: faust on October 07, 2020, 10:52:55 am
It would be way safer for scum to be on Joseph- that wagon was also Robz-approved, and Dylan's argument gives solid cover.
What makes you say that the Joseph wagon was Robz-approved?

The part where Robz voted for Joseph before Dylan made his case.

This doesn't look like approval though, and is more relevant to the timeframe in question:

Vote: Glooble is fine by me, actually. Definitely better than Joseph.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Glooble on October 07, 2020, 10:56:54 am
It would be way safer for scum to be on Joseph- that wagon was also Robz-approved, and Dylan's argument gives solid cover.
What makes you say that the Joseph wagon was Robz-approved?

The part where Robz voted for Joseph before Dylan made his case.

This doesn't look like approval though, and is more relevant to the timeframe in question:

Vote: Glooble is fine by me, actually. Definitely better than Joseph.

Doesn't change the fact that both of the wagons were on people the IC had voted for at one point or another. The question of whether a given scum player would switch from Joseph to me is entirely dependent on that player's style, priorities, and the optics of switching based on their own previous statements. Your whole argument seems to be predicated on the idea that any scum player worth their salt would switch to my wagon after Robz switched, and that's a flawed assumption.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: EFHW on October 07, 2020, 11:02:13 am
So we have the (1) "no one got on Glooble because he is scum" theory and the (2) "scum jumped on Joseph's wagon because the case gave them cover" theory.

(1) supports (2), because if scum aren't on Glooble, where are they? (2) does not support (1). If scum were on the Joseph wagon, they wouldn't have left it for town!Glooble's wagon.

So I think theory (2) is the better bet.

PPE: 8
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: faust on October 07, 2020, 11:06:18 am
Doesn't change the fact that both of the wagons were on people the IC had voted for at one point or another. The question of whether a given scum player would switch from Joseph to me is entirely dependent on that player's style, priorities, and the optics of switching based on their own previous statements. Your whole argument seems to be predicated on the idea that any scum player worth their salt would switch to my wagon after Robz switched, and that's a flawed assumption.
Nice strawman.

My argument is: It is unlikely for a wagon on town with the IC on it to exist for an extended period of time without scum joining, or already being, on that wagon. Do you disagree?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: faust on October 07, 2020, 11:19:50 am
So we have the (1) "no one got on Glooble because he is scum" theory and the (2) "scum jumped on Joseph's wagon because the case gave them cover" theory.

(1) supports (2), because if scum aren't on Glooble, where are they? (2) does not support (1). If scum were on the Joseph wagon, they wouldn't have left it for town!Glooble's wagon.

So I think theory (2) is the better bet.

PPE: 8
I don't understand why one theory supporting the other means that the former theory is better. I also don't see why (2) wouldn't support (1) anyways; if you assume scum was on the Joseph wagon, and Glooble was on that wagon, surely that supports the theory that Glooble is scum?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: EFHW on October 07, 2020, 11:21:03 am
For reference:

Vote Count 1.6:

Joseph (4): Galzria, Dylan, Eevee, Glooble,
Glooble (4): ADK, Space, faust, Robz888
EFHW (3): Joseph, MiX, WCD
ADK (2): EFHW, chairs

Not Voting (0):
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: faust on October 07, 2020, 11:23:11 am
So we have the (1) "no one got on Glooble because he is scum" theory and the (2) "scum jumped on Joseph's wagon because the case gave them cover" theory.

(1) supports (2), because if scum aren't on Glooble, where are they? (2) does not support (1). If scum were on the Joseph wagon, they wouldn't have left it for town!Glooble's wagon.

So I think theory (2) is the better bet.

PPE: 8
I don't understand why one theory supporting the other means that the former theory is better. I also don't see why (2) wouldn't support (1) anyways; if you assume scum was on the Joseph wagon, and Glooble was on that wagon, surely that supports the theory that Glooble is scum?
Oh wait, I think I got it, it's like if (1) then (2), but not (if (2) then (1)), so (2) is more likely than (1). Well eh. You seem to imply that (2) is true if any scum were on Joseph, which sure I guess that version is likely true, but it's not particularly helpful.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: faust on October 07, 2020, 11:25:35 am
Like it's not surprising that if you pitch the theory "this set of 4 people contains scum" versus "person X is scum" that the first theory is more likely to be true.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Glooble on October 07, 2020, 11:25:47 am
Doesn't change the fact that both of the wagons were on people the IC had voted for at one point or another. The question of whether a given scum player would switch from Joseph to me is entirely dependent on that player's style, priorities, and the optics of switching based on their own previous statements. Your whole argument seems to be predicated on the idea that any scum player worth their salt would switch to my wagon after Robz switched, and that's a flawed assumption.
Nice strawman.

My argument is: It is unlikely for a wagon on town with the IC on it to exist for an extended period of time without scum joining, or already being, on that wagon. Do you disagree?

Yes.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: faust on October 07, 2020, 11:29:54 am
Doesn't change the fact that both of the wagons were on people the IC had voted for at one point or another. The question of whether a given scum player would switch from Joseph to me is entirely dependent on that player's style, priorities, and the optics of switching based on their own previous statements. Your whole argument seems to be predicated on the idea that any scum player worth their salt would switch to my wagon after Robz switched, and that's a flawed assumption.
Nice strawman.

My argument is: It is unlikely for a wagon on town with the IC on it to exist for an extended period of time without scum joining, or already being, on that wagon. Do you disagree?

Yes.

I'd love to hear some thoughts from Glooble on his D1 wagon.

Well, I've talked about ADK a lot. Robz is town. MiX was town. So that leave you, chairs and Space (taht's everyone who voted for me at all, I think.) See above for chairs- he goes back and forth between me and ADK in a way that I think it honestly pretty scummy. Space's initial vote for me reads like a joke vote. The weirdest thing is that they defend it like it was more serious than it initially appeared. Your vote doesn't come with a lot of explanation, I assume you just thought I was a better wagon than Joseph. But my wagon never had much substance to it.

Most likely scum is chairs I think. I'm still wary of ADK but my scumread on them has cooled somewhat, I think it was a little too emotionally motivated.

vote: chairs

PPE: faust voting for me
Here it seems like you are choosing a person on your wagon to vote for. Is that a correct reading and if so - why?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: EFHW on October 07, 2020, 11:34:08 am
Most probable: One scum on Joseph, one on Glooble, one elsewhere.

I think faust's theory is unfortunately flawed. Robz voting town!Glooble wouldn't be enough to draw scum off the Joseph wagon. And there was no real case on Glooble. There's much more cover for voting Joseph. As for wanting a non-VT exile, I rarely feel as scum that I have the luxury of that kind of choice. One point in favor of faust's theory is that there was daychat and scum could have coordinated to choose town!Glooble over town!Joseph. But I think that would be too obvious once Glooble flipped town, so they wouldn't have done that.

PPE: 4
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: EFHW on October 07, 2020, 11:37:02 am
Didds and chairs were off both wagons. I'll check to see if either of them had positioned themselves where they couldn't get on one wagon or the other.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Glooble on October 07, 2020, 11:50:22 am

Here it seems like you are choosing a person on your wagon to vote for. Is that a correct reading and if so - why?

It's not a correct reading. I've been scumreading chairs all game. The fact that he was on my wagon is a coincidence. It has nothing to do with my reasons for voting him.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: EFHW on October 07, 2020, 01:55:41 pm
At the time that Robz voted (at 416) for Glooble, both Didds (at 404) and chairs (at 405) had expressed townreads on Glooble. So they would be unlikely to join Robz. chairs did vote Glooble at 263. Not sure what changed. Both had also indicated willingness to vote Joseph. chairs voted him at 340 and switched to ADK at 405, in support of Glooble's case against them.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Robz888 on October 07, 2020, 03:31:45 pm
@Glooble responding to earlier point:
I meant to say that it's scummy from faust and Galzria (especially Galzria!) to have been such a small factor this far, being how much they usually influence the game. It's not even about the activity level, just that they aren't really a big part of discussion in any way, although (my feel without rereading is) that faust has been coming to the center more. It's kind of a scum read borne from lack of towny evidence, if you will. For guys with their reputation, laying low early makes a lot of sense as scum, because it's tough to be the at the center of the attention for days on end and avoid the exile every time.

I don't think faust has been a non-presence, but Galz absolutely has been.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: chairs on October 07, 2020, 03:46:00 pm
Ghost Galz is scum Galz.

vote: Galzria
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 07, 2020, 05:09:05 pm
My best guess is that Galz is camping with Swowl. But that is just a guess.

Not a bad observation, although Iím not sure itís right. Scum Galz seems more present than that, yeah?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 07, 2020, 06:15:46 pm
Iím reading and following along, but Iím super swamped right now my apologies for not bring more engaged. Hopefully Iíll be out from under soon.

For me, Eevee and EFHW are on the scummy side of the street. Chairs is close to them.

Space and Glooble somewhere in the middle. Galz I guess, too.

ADK, faust, and Dylan on the friendly side.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: SpaceAnemone on October 07, 2020, 06:18:32 pm
Sorry I've been a bit absent today! I'm super wiped out at the moment, but I'm here and reading.

I think faust's logic that either Glooble or someone on his four-person wagon near the end of D1 being scum is pretty solid, and I don't think Glooble is doing a very good job of defending against it or justifying his disagreement with comparable logic.

@faust, your actual assertion was that either Glooble is scum, or he's town with scum already voting there. Obviously you and I can be suspicious of each other for this. Is it time to consider ADK again? I had a residual townread from D1, but I notice you posted at #480 (i.e. well into D2) that you didn't like some of the stuff they were posting. Now you're pressuring Glooble a fair amount, but not ADK. Why the asymmetry there?

I also think Chairs is still looking a bit scummy, especially with that jump onto Galz the minute our IC mentions Galz's absence.

PPE 1: Didds also being tired and reading! Hi friend :-)
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Eevee on October 07, 2020, 06:30:06 pm
Uh yeah, I can relate with the feeling of low energy and tiredness. I don't know if it's the fall coming (getting reaaaally dark in Finland), or the general hellscapiness of the world right now or what, but I've also been lately feeling like it's so difficult to find energy for anything, inluding things I love like playing games like this. Ugh!
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Glooble on October 07, 2020, 06:43:06 pm
faust's case on me is bad. When I flip town, ya'll are going to have to decide if it's just wrong, or if it's intentionally manipulative.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Glooble on October 07, 2020, 06:46:41 pm
It's bad for the reasons EFHW and I have articulated- Dylan's case on Joseph was solid enough that it made following Robz on to me unappealing. Several potential scum had recently expressed townreads on me and swapping would have made them look suspicious. The case is a nothingburger.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 07, 2020, 06:47:19 pm
Glooble, what for your chum to scum list look like?

Eevee, the shorter days are a killer. And itís just starting! Ugh on the darkness.

Space, Hi!!
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Glooble on October 07, 2020, 06:48:34 pm
I personally don't know if this is the kind of bad case faust makes in good faith, for instance because he's relying on a maxim (scum will naturally want to follow the IC) without considering the context, or if this is a case scum!faust makes because it's easy to make it look good, but it doesn't hold up to scrutiny. That's for you to figure out after you exile me.

PPE: 1
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Glooble on October 07, 2020, 06:50:49 pm
Scum:
chairs

Strong contenders:
ADK
faust

middle of the road:
Space
Didds
Dylan
Galz

lean town:
Eevee
EFHW

town:
Robz

Did I forget anyone?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on October 07, 2020, 06:58:22 pm
Ghost Galz is scum Galz.

vote: Galzria

This is empirically not true
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Dylan32 on October 07, 2020, 08:34:06 pm
Scum:
chairs

Strong contenders:
ADK
faust

middle of the road:
Space
Didds
Dylan
Galz

lean town:
Eevee
EFHW

town:
Robz

Did I forget anyone?

You've done a fair bit of talking about your scum reads, but what about Eevee and EFHW's games stand out as towny to you?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Dylan32 on October 07, 2020, 08:38:19 pm
--snip--

@Glooble responding to earlier point:
I meant to say that it's scummy from faust and Galzria (especially Galzria!) to have been such a small factor this far, being how much they usually influence the game. It's not even about the activity level, just that they aren't really a big part of discussion in any way, although (my feel without rereading is) that faust has been coming to the center more. It's kind of a scum read borne from lack of towny evidence, if you will. For guys with their reputation, laying low early makes a lot of sense as scum, because it's tough to be the at the center of the attention for days on end and avoid the exile every time.

ugh... I was the one that questioned your faust and Galzria comment, not glooble. How did that happen again?!
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Dylan32 on October 07, 2020, 08:39:35 pm
Glooble has been active enough he doesn't need credit for my activity too haha
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Dylan32 on October 07, 2020, 08:40:49 pm
It's bad for the reasons EFHW and I have articulated- Dylan's case on Joseph was solid enough that it made following Robz on to me unappealing. Several potential scum had recently expressed townreads on me and swapping would have made them look suspicious. The case is a nothingburger.

It's not completely nothing burger, but it's not as good as I thought it was initially.

Unvote
for now
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Dylan32 on October 07, 2020, 09:09:50 pm
Oh man, I was just rereading D1, and saw a post by Joseph that I guess I just completely missed at the time, right after I corrected the list of 3 and voted EFHW. He gave a reason that glooble was towny aside from not being on that list, which is something I said he hadn't done later after his "that's why I wasn't on glooble" post that I thought was the lie. (Aside from the incredibly obvious "he flipped town," that case wasn't anywhere nearly as solid as several people acted like. So the people who went along with it without much feedback or independent thought get several scum points, while the people who said it wasn't that great get townpoints.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Dylan32 on October 07, 2020, 09:10:47 pm
Oh man, I was just rereading D1, and saw a post by Joseph that I guess I just completely missed at the time, right after I corrected the list of 3 and voted EFHW. He gave a reason that glooble was towny aside from not being on that list, which is something I said he hadn't done later after his "that's why I wasn't on glooble" post that I thought was the lie. (Aside from the incredibly obvious "he flipped town,") that case wasn't anywhere nearly as solid as several people acted like. So the people who went along with it without much feedback or independent thought get several scum points, while the people who said it wasn't that great get townpoints.

edit: missing ")"
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: faust on October 08, 2020, 02:36:05 am
faust's case on me is bad. When I flip town, ya'll are going to have to decide if it's just wrong, or if it's intentionally manipulative.
Talk about being intentionally manipulative.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: faust on October 08, 2020, 02:37:03 am
I personally don't know if this is the kind of bad case faust makes in good faith, for instance because he's relying on a maxim (scum will naturally want to follow the IC) without considering the context, or if this is a case scum!faust makes because it's easy to make it look good, but it doesn't hold up to scrutiny. That's for you to figure out after you exile me.

PPE: 1
Again strawmanning. I never said scum always want to follow the IC, I have considered the context.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: faust on October 08, 2020, 02:37:46 am
Also, either a case looks good or it doesn't hold up to scrutiny. It can't be both.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: faust on October 08, 2020, 02:39:03 am
And I find it hilarious that Glooble argues hard against the idea that scum would be on his wagon and then his scumreads are basically everyone on the Glooble wagon.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Glooble on October 08, 2020, 07:54:31 am
Also, either a case looks good or it doesn't hold up to scrutiny. It can't be both.

You're willfully misunderstanding me. A case can look good if you just read it and then fall apart if you actually look at the context. Which is exactly what your case does. It's a good scum play if you're a player with a reputation for making good wagon-based cases, like faust is, because you can bank on people trusting you and being too lazy to check your work.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Glooble on October 08, 2020, 07:55:29 am
The main reason I'm finding EFHW townie is she *is* checking faust's work. She's analyzing other people's cases, supporting them with her own evidence, and making her own decisions.

Eevee is just a gut read.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Eevee on October 08, 2020, 08:33:09 am
Vote Count 2.3:
chairs (3): ADK, Glooble, Eevee
Glooble (3): chairs, faust, Robz888
Eevee (2): EFHW, WCD

Not Voting (3): Dylan, Galz, Space,

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
Day 2 ends on October 9th at 6:15PM Forum Time.
Woah, the deadline is tomorrow!
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: faust on October 08, 2020, 08:37:25 am
Also, either a case looks good or it doesn't hold up to scrutiny. It can't be both.

You're willfully misunderstanding me. A case can look good if you just read it and then fall apart if you actually look at the context. Which is exactly what your case does. It's a good scum play if you're a player with a reputation for making good wagon-based cases, like faust is, because you can bank on people trusting you and being too lazy to check your work.
Evidently, I can't, so it's not.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Glooble on October 08, 2020, 08:40:39 am
I personally don't know if this is the kind of bad case faust makes in good faith, for instance because he's relying on a maxim (scum will naturally want to follow the IC) without considering the context, or if this is a case scum!faust makes because it's easy to make it look good, but it doesn't hold up to scrutiny. That's for you to figure out after you exile me.

PPE: 1
Again strawmanning. I never said scum always want to follow the IC, I have considered the context.

Ok, again, this is for the rest of the town to consider when I'm dead.

I keep trying to summarize faust's case and faust keeps saying I'm strawmanning. So, one of three things is happening here:

1. I'm just not smart anough to understand what faust is saying
2. what faust is saying doesn't actually make sense
3. I'm scum trying to manipulate you

When I flip town, that will eliminate option 3. Hopefully, when faced with option 1 and option 2, you'll do the right thing and exile faust.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Glooble on October 08, 2020, 08:45:10 am
Actually, you know what?

vote: faust

Call it OMGUS if you want, but I don't buy town!faust doubling down on this ridiculous non-case. He's smarter than that. So the scum!faust narrative is the only one that works for me. The chairs wagon is stalled out anyway.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Glooble on October 08, 2020, 09:09:06 am
Sorry if I'm coming off more confrontational than usual, I think that's just what happens when a person is targeted the entire game for no reason.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on October 08, 2020, 10:14:23 am
Actually, you know what?

vote: faust

Call it OMGUS if you want, but I don't buy town!faust doubling down on this ridiculous non-case. He's smarter than that. So the scum!faust narrative is the only one that works for me. The chairs wagon is stalled out anyway.

I call it OMGUS

I'm back to scumreading glooble. On a reread most of his content is either defending himself or saying that the people voting for him are scum. Eevee mentioned townreading glooble because he's been more vocal than other players, but he's also had a lot of pressure on him, and I think he reads like scum working hard to try and get out from under that pressure

vote: glooble
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Eevee on October 08, 2020, 10:52:41 am
It never looked like Glooble didn't want to be under pressure though, even if at times he's seemed frustrated of it. He's been almost Mixian with the certainty of his statements!
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Glooble on October 08, 2020, 11:30:10 am
That L-2 or L-1?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Glooble on October 08, 2020, 11:30:32 am
Dylan unvoted me, so I think its L2.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Robz888 on October 08, 2020, 11:58:32 am
I am still satisfied with a Glooble exile.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Glooble on October 08, 2020, 11:59:39 am
I think he reads like scum working hard to try and get out from under that pressure

lol this is not how I get out from under pressure as scum.

This is pissed off town Glooble who wishes his teammate's wouldn't get rolled so easily by the scum setting him up.

Trust me, scum Glooble cares a lot more about being nice.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Glooble on October 08, 2020, 12:01:25 pm
I am still satisfied with a Glooble exile.

Cool, have fun with that. Just exile faust after I flip, ok? Or ADK. It's 100% one of them. The only reason it wouldn't be both of them is I'm not sure they'd both be on me right now. But honestly this whole "scum tries not to be on the same wagons" thinking has become so orthodox that if scum did decide to all pile onto the same town exile it would probably go swimmingly for them.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Glooble on October 08, 2020, 12:01:56 pm
vote: glooble

No sense in dragging this out.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Glooble on October 08, 2020, 12:02:16 pm
Actually that's dumb.

vote: faust
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Glooble on October 08, 2020, 12:04:23 pm
But the only reason I'm not self-voting right now is because it robs the town of information. I might self-hammer out of pure spite. Not ruling that out, that's where I am right now.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Glooble on October 08, 2020, 12:06:49 pm
I should probably not do that.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Glooble on October 08, 2020, 12:07:16 pm
Didds and Galz have been quiet.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Glooble on October 08, 2020, 12:20:06 pm
I would like to hear from the following people about faust's case on me:

Didds
Galz
chairs

I would like faust to actually refute any of my points instead of just accusing me of strawmanning him.

Seriously, look at the way faust is arguing with me. Like, somebody who has played with faust tell me that town faust argues like that.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: faust on October 08, 2020, 12:51:17 pm
vote: glooble

No sense in dragging this out.
Oh well there we go.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: faust on October 08, 2020, 12:52:39 pm
I would like faust to actually refute any of my points instead of just accusing me of strawmanning him.
I don't know what I'm supposed to refute. I think scum would jump on a town wagon with only town on it. You seemingly don't. There's not much more to say. Or did you refute anything else and I didn't see it?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Glooble on October 08, 2020, 12:58:23 pm
I would like faust to actually refute any of my points instead of just accusing me of strawmanning him.
I don't know what I'm supposed to refute. I think scum would jump on a town wagon with only town on it. You seemingly don't. There's not much more to say. Or did you refute anything else and I didn't see it?

You keep moving the goalposts, faust! Every time I think I understand your argument, I try to summarize it and you tell me I'm strawmanning.  Here is what I am saying: There are lots of reasons Joseph's wagon would have been more appealing to scum than my wagon. First, there's the fact that Dylan had an actual case on him, and a pretty darn solid one for day 1. Second, there's the fact that at least two players had recently expressed townreads on me, so if either of those players were scum, they probably wouldn't have wanted to move, because it would have looked suspicious. Finally, there's the simple fact that just following the IC from one wagon to another looks suspicious, especially if you've been a relatively inactive player so far. All of those are reasons your theory sucks and I haven't seen you actually address any of them.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: EFHW on October 08, 2020, 01:34:13 pm
I would like to hear from the following people about faust's case on me:

Didds
Galz
chairs

I would like faust to actually refute any of my points instead of just accusing me of strawmanning him.

Seriously, look at the way faust is arguing with me. Like, somebody who has played with faust tell me that town faust argues like that.
In my last game with faust I felt exactly like you are describing now. We were both town. I don't know how to understand what's going on, either.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: faust on October 08, 2020, 01:37:45 pm
I would like faust to actually refute any of my points instead of just accusing me of strawmanning him.
I don't know what I'm supposed to refute. I think scum would jump on a town wagon with only town on it. You seemingly don't. There's not much more to say. Or did you refute anything else and I didn't see it?

You keep moving the goalposts, faust! Every time I think I understand your argument, I try to summarize it and you tell me I'm strawmanning.  Here is what I am saying: There are lots of reasons Joseph's wagon would have been more appealing to scum than my wagon. First, there's the fact that Dylan had an actual case on him, and a pretty darn solid one for day 1. Second, there's the fact that at least two players had recently expressed townreads on me, so if either of those players were scum, they probably wouldn't have wanted to move, because it would have looked suspicious. Finally, there's the simple fact that just following the IC from one wagon to another looks suspicious, especially if you've been a relatively inactive player so far. All of those are reasons your theory sucks and I haven't seen you actually address any of them.
This all seems to be based on a theory that all the scum were on either Joseph or you, which is not true. There are a number of players who could have moved from not!Joseph to you, and I highly doubt that all the scums were on Joseph. So if your whole reasoning is that scum wouldn't move from Joseph to you, then that doesn't really matter that much. I would also debate that supporting a wagon with a "solid case" is all that good for scum; the quality of the case doesn't matter all that much once a player flips town.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: EFHW on October 08, 2020, 01:41:27 pm
Who would have moved? chairs and Didds were positioned as townreading Glooble. I had voted ADK, which also indicates opposition to the Glooble wagon. MiX and Joseph were town.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 08, 2020, 01:46:21 pm
I would like to hear from the following people about faust's case on me:

Didds
Galz
chairs

I would like faust to actually refute any of my points instead of just accusing me of strawmanning him.

Seriously, look at the way faust is arguing with me. Like, somebody who has played with faust tell me that town faust argues like that.

I feel like you all are often talking at cross purposes. He seems to latterly be basing his arguments on weaknesses in your arguments, but thatís not actually an argument as much as a refutation. I donít know that it makes either of you scummy, or even that is means that youíre on opposing teams.

You seem super frustrated, which I completely understand. Youíre willingness to vote for yourself would be more towny if there wasnít daychat.

I think itís way more interesting how low Eevee is laying while all of this goes down.

PPE: EFHW hi
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: chairs on October 08, 2020, 03:39:50 pm
Wow this is a Day huh.

I will go back after dinner to find Faust's argument and discuss
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Swowl on October 08, 2020, 04:31:48 pm

Vote Count 2.4:

Glooble (3): faust, Robz888, ADK
Eevee (2): EFHW, WCD
chairs (1): Eevee
Galzria (1): chairs
faust (1): Glooble

Not Voting (3): Dylan Galz, Space,

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
Day 2 ends on October 9th at 6:15PM Forum Time.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: faust on October 08, 2020, 04:33:46 pm
Who would have moved? chairs and Didds were positioned as townreading Glooble. I had voted ADK, which also indicates opposition to the Glooble wagon. MiX and Joseph were town.
Didds was positioned against both wagons and could have easily jumped one for consolidation. I don't see how voting for ADK indicates opposition to a Glooble exile. chairs yeah came out but he was voting Glooble before that, so it's not like he's worried about changing his mind.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: SpaceAnemone on October 08, 2020, 06:16:36 pm
@faust, how common is it for you to make this type of "one scum in x" argument based on a wagon? I know it's a very Space thing to do, and I recall a particular game a few years back where scum!you and scum!Haddock basically succeeded in turning town against an even stronger version of the same argument that I was making to say that at least one of you was scum because otherwise there was a five-towns-on-town wagon.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: SpaceAnemone on October 08, 2020, 06:18:32 pm
I guess it's useless to prod Galz, if we're assuming he's run off with the mod?

I think I'd be interested in hearing his thoughts on the faust-Glooble interaction here.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: SpaceAnemone on October 08, 2020, 06:26:10 pm
@faust, your actual assertion was that either Glooble is scum, or he's town with scum already voting there. Obviously you and I can be suspicious of each other for this. Is it time to consider ADK again? I had a residual townread from D1, but I notice you posted at #480 (i.e. well into D2) that you didn't like some of the stuff they were posting. Now you're pressuring Glooble a fair amount, but not ADK. Why the asymmetry there?

I don't think there was a response to this, was there?

I think faust is only really justified in pushing Glooble so hard if he's convinced that ADK is town, and I want to hear more about that.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: EFHW on October 08, 2020, 07:25:41 pm
Robz, why are you on Glooble?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: faust on October 09, 2020, 01:05:10 am
@faust, how common is it for you to make this type of "one scum in x" argument based on a wagon? I know it's a very Space thing to do, and I recall a particular game a few years back where scum!you and scum!Haddock basically succeeded in turning town against an even stronger version of the same argument that I was making to say that at least one of you was scum because otherwise there was a five-towns-on-town wagon.
I wouldn't generally make that sort of statement were it not for the facts that (1) the alternate misexile wagon was a VT and (2) the IC put his support behind the wagon. I think both things would scum more eager to join, so it would be particularly notable if they didn't.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: faust on October 09, 2020, 01:08:20 am
@faust, your actual assertion was that either Glooble is scum, or he's town with scum already voting there. Obviously you and I can be suspicious of each other for this. Is it time to consider ADK again? I had a residual townread from D1, but I notice you posted at #480 (i.e. well into D2) that you didn't like some of the stuff they were posting. Now you're pressuring Glooble a fair amount, but not ADK. Why the asymmetry there?

I don't think there was a response to this, was there?

I think faust is only really justified in pushing Glooble so hard if he's convinced that ADK is town, and I want to hear more about that.
It's not like i townread ADK hard or anything. Initially I mainly pushed Glooble because he wasn't doing as much. I think his reaction to that does not come from a towny place, and this is what made me stick to the wagon. ADK could still be scum though.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: EFHW on October 09, 2020, 07:27:27 am
I still prefer to exile among the people who embraced Dylan's theory with enthusiasm. Eevee seems the most likely to me. Does anyone want argue for someone else?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: SpaceAnemone on October 09, 2020, 07:30:43 am
It's not like i townread ADK hard or anything. Initially I mainly pushed Glooble because he wasn't doing as much. I think his reaction to that does not come from a towny place, and this is what made me stick to the wagon. ADK could still be scum though.

So could we be seeing some confirmation bias here? Your original case pointed to at least one scum in {Glooble, ADK, me}, but the wagon configuration itself didn't really give you strong evidence which was which. You had a hunch that ADK was less scummy than Glooble, so you went after Glooble pretty hard. Now you're saying the main reason you suspect Glooble is that you dislike his reaction to your pressure, and the wagon evidence that would also implicate ADK is merely secondary. Is that correct?

Just in case it's not clear for everyone else reading along, we'd also expect the wagon behaviour to be quite similar if scum!ADK had been voting town!Glooble, in terms of other scum being reluctant to move there when other options exist. Or, I should point out, scum!faust instead of scum!ADK from my perspective, or even scum!me from everyone else's perspective.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: EFHW on October 09, 2020, 07:31:52 am
For reference:
re: Dylan's long post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20512.msg855056#msg855056), I agree with him on most of his points. I don't have a scumread on Galzria, though.

People who were excited by Dylan's scum!Joseph narrative: Dylan, Galzria, Eevee, Glooble, chairs.
People who were not: EFHW, Didds, faust, Space, ADK, Robz, MiX (?).

I think it's reasonable to assume there is at least one scum in {Galz, Eevee, Glooble, chairs}.

PPE: Space
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: EFHW on October 09, 2020, 07:36:22 am
I still prefer to exile among the people who embraced Dylan's theory with enthusiasm. Eevee seems the most likely to me. Does anyone want argue for someone else?
Other than Glooble,  unless there's something new.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: faust on October 09, 2020, 07:42:14 am
It's not like i townread ADK hard or anything. Initially I mainly pushed Glooble because he wasn't doing as much. I think his reaction to that does not come from a towny place, and this is what made me stick to the wagon. ADK could still be scum though.

So could we be seeing some confirmation bias here? Your original case pointed to at least one scum in {Glooble, ADK, me}, but the wagon configuration itself didn't really give you strong evidence which was which. You had a hunch that ADK was less scummy than Glooble, so you went after Glooble pretty hard. Now you're saying the main reason you suspect Glooble is that you dislike his reaction to your pressure, and the wagon evidence that would also implicate ADK is merely secondary. Is that correct?
Not really. First of all, I always excluded you from the "pushing for Glooble" folks as you switched to Joseph at a crucial time and that doesn't make sense if you are scum and Glooble town. So it was always {Glooble, ADK}. Second, the reaction to pressure is not my main reason to suspect Glooble. The wagon on Glooble during D1 is. His reaction to the pressure is just the reason I push him over ADK.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: faust on October 09, 2020, 07:43:13 am
I still prefer to exile among the people who embraced Dylan's theory with enthusiasm. Eevee seems the most likely to me. Does anyone want argue for someone else?
Other than Glooble,  unless there's something new.
Why not Glooble?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: EFHW on October 09, 2020, 08:33:27 am
I still prefer to exile among the people who embraced Dylan's theory with enthusiasm. Eevee seems the most likely to me. Does anyone want argue for someone else?
Other than Glooble,  unless there's something new.
Why not Glooble?
I think we've been through that already.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: EFHW on October 09, 2020, 08:33:54 am
I still prefer to exile among the people who embraced Dylan's theory with enthusiasm. Eevee seems the most likely to me. Does anyone want argue for someone else?
Other than Glooble,  unless there's something new.
Why not Glooble?
I think we've been through that already.
He seems obv!town to me.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: faust on October 09, 2020, 08:50:00 am
I still prefer to exile among the people who embraced Dylan's theory with enthusiasm. Eevee seems the most likely to me. Does anyone want argue for someone else?
Other than Glooble,  unless there's something new.
Why not Glooble?
I think we've been through that already.
He seems obv!town to me.
Can you make a case for him being town?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: faust on October 09, 2020, 08:53:36 am
Also,

Request prod on Galzria

He's been online on the forums, so it's not like he's completely VLA. And anyways he has no VLA announced.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Eevee on October 09, 2020, 10:39:15 am
Fwiw Galz is also holding up our codenames - games.

Iím really sorry for being so low energy today. The glooble - faust argument is a bit hard to follow for me. I still think Glooble seems like frustrated town, but i donít think faust looks scummy for pushing his argument. Feels to me that both really believe in what they are saying. I absolutely donít see that as scum v scum, so if one were to flip scum I think the other is almost surely town.

Admittedly I didnít research dylanís case against joseph too heavily - i find it hard to find scum day1, i felt like joseph was contradicting himself in a way where he tried to explain his reads disingenuously, also i didnít find his defense believable after the fact. I like to think i have a good radar for discouraged and frustrated town (itís pinging now for glooble), and joseph really felt very much like caught scum to me.

Today I think most of the noise in the thread is coming from town, just feels like we arenít going anywhere and scum is happy to hang back and hope glooble is lynched. I would look at chairs, galzria, maybe SA or Didds. And yes, I know I havenít been looking hard enough myself, itís not good gameplay from me.

Iím going to be away from keyboard until 6-7 hours from now, but should make it to the deadline if itís when i think it is.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: chairs on October 09, 2020, 10:53:19 am
So sorry - I was passing out before we made it home from dinner. At work now, but once I deal with the red alert stuff I'll take a moment for this.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Robz888 on October 09, 2020, 11:13:47 am
Robz, why are you on Glooble?

It might be a case of just overly sticking to my guns, but really I've had a scum vibe from him all game.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Glooble on October 09, 2020, 11:27:19 am
vote: chairs


I'm willign to entertain that faust and I are town v. town.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on October 09, 2020, 11:29:04 am
vote: chairs


I'm willign to entertain that faust and I are town v. town.

And chairs is your top scumread after faust?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Glooble on October 09, 2020, 12:28:40 pm
vote: chairs


I'm willign to entertain that faust and I are town v. town.

And chairs is your top scumread after faust?

Chairs is my top scumread who I actually think we have a shot at exiling. I will try and find time today to more fully articulate the case on him, but it mostly comes down to voting very opportunistically, sheeping a lot, and generally seeming to lack conviction. The entire game he's struck me as someone posting for the sake of posting. He made a wallpost on day one which contained no analysis and conveyed no real information.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 09, 2020, 01:26:01 pm
Galz is holding up our code names game!! He wins the stinker award.

Iím willing to
Vote: chairs
over Glooble or faust. I hear Robz on his Glooble opinion, but I donít get it.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 09, 2020, 01:27:35 pm

Vote Count 2.4:

Glooble (3): faust, Robz888, ADK
Eevee (2): EFHW, WCD
chairs (1): Eevee
Galzria (1): chairs
faust (1): Glooble

Not Voting (3): Dylan Galz, Space,

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
Day 2 ends on October 9th at 6:15PM Forum Time.

Holy cow! I didnít realize deadline was today.

We have like 5 hours.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 09, 2020, 01:28:48 pm
Space, could you please do a space count when you have a chance?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Eevee on October 09, 2020, 01:58:15 pm
uhm i canít get to computer for like 4 hours, so canít make an alternative case, really think glooble is probably town but also now see that iím the second leading wagon. iíll check back in 1-2 hours.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Eevee on October 09, 2020, 01:58:34 pm
dylan galz and space should vote!
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Swowl on October 09, 2020, 02:39:15 pm
Vote Count 2.5:

Glooble (3): faust, Robz888, ADK
chairs (3): Eevee, Glooble, WCD
Eevee (1): EFHW,
Galzria (1): chairs

Not Voting (3): Dylan Galz, Space,

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
Day 2 ends on October 9th at 6:15PM Forum Time. That is under 4 hours from now!

** Galzria has been prodded.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: chairs on October 09, 2020, 03:05:02 pm
Vote: glooble

Migraine.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Glooble on October 09, 2020, 03:08:59 pm
Well, I'm a VT. If faust's theory holds, someone should move off of me on to chairs now.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Robz888 on October 09, 2020, 03:19:17 pm
Not voting is not acceptable. Also voting for Eevee is not acceptable.

A Galz policy lynch would not be unreasonable here...
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Robz888 on October 09, 2020, 03:20:00 pm
The hour grows late and this is a likely game. People probably just need to live with the Glooble exile at this point.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Robz888 on October 09, 2020, 03:20:23 pm
The hour grows late and this is a likely game. People probably just need to live with the Glooble exile at this point.

Lurky* game
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on October 09, 2020, 03:58:02 pm
I am here but glooble is my preferred exile by a pretty large margin so I don't know what else there is to say
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: faust on October 09, 2020, 04:15:38 pm
I don't see myself switching to chairs. And I am going to bed now, so I suppose my vote is locked in anyway.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Eevee on October 09, 2020, 05:04:03 pm
Welp seems it's time to Vote: glooble
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Swowl on October 09, 2020, 05:06:08 pm

Vote Count 2.6:

Glooble (5): faust, Robz888, ADK, chairs, Eevee
chairs (2): Glooble, WCD
Eevee (1): EFHW,

Not Voting (3): Dylan Galz, Space,

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
Day 2 ends on October 9th at 6:15PM Forum Time. That is in just over 1 hour!
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: SpaceAnemone on October 09, 2020, 05:09:23 pm
I'm here! I've been feeling more and more uneasy about the small inconsistencies in faust's Glooble case, but I'm willing to hammer if that's consensus.

Can I take a little while to do a Chairs re-read, since he's probably the other leading alternative?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on October 09, 2020, 05:19:33 pm
I'm here! I've been feeling more and more uneasy about the small inconsistencies in faust's Glooble case, but I'm willing to hammer if that's consensus.

Can I take a little while to do a Chairs re-read, since he's probably the other leading alternative?

It doesn't seem like anyone else is itching to move
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: SpaceAnemone on October 09, 2020, 05:23:03 pm
I'm here! I've been feeling more and more uneasy about the small inconsistencies in faust's Glooble case, but I'm willing to hammer if that's consensus.

Can I take a little while to do a Chairs re-read, since he's probably the other leading alternative?

It doesn't seem like anyone else is itching to move

You and faust aren't, certainly. I dislike being locked into a hammer, even though it probably doesn't work out too badly for me. Either he flips scum, which is great for town, or he flips town, which negates ADK's scum!Space case pretty well and gives even stronger PoE on that D1 wagon.

Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: SpaceAnemone on October 09, 2020, 05:25:36 pm
The Chairs re-read pulled up a lot of fluff, sheeping and "gut read" stuff that's impossible to argue against and doesn't really put forward anything to catch scum out out on, so I'm not a fan.

I definitely shouldn't be "not voting", but let's do this while I wait to see if there's any more conversation in the runup to the end of the day:

Vote: Chairs
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: SpaceAnemone on October 09, 2020, 05:27:04 pm
To be clear, I'm willing to hammer Glooble in plenty of time for deadline if that's the only remaining option, but I'd hope with more than 45 mins to go and a deadline time that's reasonable for most of our timezones, there would be more life in here right now.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on October 09, 2020, 05:27:42 pm
I'm here! I've been feeling more and more uneasy about the small inconsistencies in faust's Glooble case, but I'm willing to hammer if that's consensus.

Can I take a little while to do a Chairs re-read, since he's probably the other leading alternative?

It doesn't seem like anyone else is itching to move

You and faust aren't, certainly. I dislike being locked into a hammer, even though it probably doesn't work out too badly for me. Either he flips scum, which is great for town, or he flips town, which negates ADK's scum!Space case pretty well and gives even stronger PoE on that D1 wagon.

Is how it reflects on you what's important?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: SpaceAnemone on October 09, 2020, 05:28:27 pm
Here's a current space count:

Glooble (5): faust, Robz888, A Drowned Kernel, Chairs, Eevee
Eevee (1): EFHW
Chairs (3): Glooble, WestCoastDidds, SpaceAnemone
Not Voting (2): Galzria, Dylan32
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: SpaceAnemone on October 09, 2020, 05:31:28 pm
I'm here! I've been feeling more and more uneasy about the small inconsistencies in faust's Glooble case, but I'm willing to hammer if that's consensus.

Can I take a little while to do a Chairs re-read, since he's probably the other leading alternative?

It doesn't seem like anyone else is itching to move

You and faust aren't, certainly. I dislike being locked into a hammer, even though it probably doesn't work out too badly for me. Either he flips scum, which is great for town, or he flips town, which negates ADK's scum!Space case pretty well and gives even stronger PoE on that D1 wagon.

Is how it reflects on you what's important?

It's certainly not enjoyable to have people throwing scum cases at me. Thus an upside of being forced into a hammer (which is itself not a comfortable feeling since I'm second-guessing every case I can see) is that either a good thing happens, or an okay thing happens. Maybe I'm just stating that it's contradictory to feel hesitant, but I am anyway.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: SpaceAnemone on October 09, 2020, 05:48:20 pm
Less than 30 mins to deadline and still no other people here? Where is everyone?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: SpaceAnemone on October 09, 2020, 06:02:39 pm
Well, this is an underwhelming deadline rush.

Eevee was showing up as being on the forum in the past 10-15 minutes, but he hasn't said anything in this thread, and he was probably the most likely person to swing things back towards Chairs, given that he was voting Chairs not that long ago. So this is my intent to hammer Glooble in ~5 minutes.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: SpaceAnemone on October 09, 2020, 06:07:18 pm
Vote: Glooble
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Glooble on October 09, 2020, 06:09:15 pm
Whelp, good luck town.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Glooble on October 09, 2020, 06:09:53 pm
I tried. Sorry if I freaked out a little there.

I think it's very likely one of faust or ADK is scum. I also think chairs is scum.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Swowl on October 09, 2020, 06:21:47 pm
(https://i.ibb.co/T03GF4v/mutt4.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)

Glooble has been lynched!
They were an Adorable Mutt.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Swowl on October 09, 2020, 06:22:57 pm
Vote Count 2.Final:

Glooble (6): faust, Robz888, ADK, chairs, Eevee, Space
chairs (2): Glooble, WCD
Eevee (1): EFHW

Not Voting (2): Dylan Galz

With 11 alive, it took 6 to lynch.
Night 2 starts now and ends October 11th at 6:23pm Forum Time.

Night Actions are due in 36 hours.


THREAD LOCKED!
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Swowl on October 11, 2020, 06:28:16 pm
Dylan has died at night!
He was an Adorable Mutt!
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Swowl on October 11, 2020, 06:28:50 pm
Vote Count 3.0:

Not Voting (9): WCD, EFHW, ADK, Galz, faust, chairs, Eevee, Space, Robz

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.
Day 3 starts now and ends on October 18th at 6:28PM Forum Time.


THREAD UNLOCKED!
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Eevee on October 11, 2020, 06:30:49 pm
Bummer bummer bummer.

Prob time to be somewhat judicious with our votes - scum has daychat and only takes two townies for them to coordinate an exile. We need to exile mafia today or we are positively toast
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Eevee on October 11, 2020, 06:33:26 pm
My first inclination is chairs chairs. Instinctively makes sense that scum would have piled on glooble, him being the second leading candidate.

We should have started consolidating votes earlier yesterday. Town points to Space for trying to muster votes late yesterday. We needed more activity also!
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 11, 2020, 06:43:49 pm
Adorable mutts getting whacked left and right! Ugh!

Alright people....eevee is spot on. Weíve got to get this right.

Here is the final vote count...I think at least 2 scum are on Glooble. Maybe even all three. ADK and chairs are pretty high on my list.


Glooble (6): faust, Robz888, ADK, chairs, Eevee, Space
chairs (2): Glooble, WCD
Eevee (1): EFHW

Not Voting (2): Dylan, Galz
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: EFHW on October 11, 2020, 06:49:51 pm
I think Eevee has to be scum here.

1. opportunistic voting
2. amazingly towny posts (528  (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20512.msg855229#msg855229)and 529) directly after I voted him (513), but not before or since.
3. Fake dismay about nk.
4. Suddenly giving advice to town, mostly the standard Day 3 things people say.
5. If I squint and look for the players who have not received attention, have not done much, yet have been around, Eevee pops out.
6. He was on the Joseph wagon.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: EFHW on October 11, 2020, 06:51:24 pm
7. He was on the Glooble wagon despite townread at 528. Why not just vote chairs?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on October 11, 2020, 07:01:18 pm
Adorable mutts getting whacked left and right! Ugh!

Alright people....eevee is spot on. Weíve got to get this right.

Here is the final vote count...I think at least 2 scum are on Glooble. Maybe even all three. ADK and chairs are pretty high on my list.


Glooble (6): faust, Robz888, ADK, chairs, Eevee, Space
chairs (2): Glooble, WCD
Eevee (1): EFHW

Not Voting (2): Dylan, Galz

What changed your read on me from yesterday?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on October 11, 2020, 07:02:45 pm
I think Eevee has to be scum here.

1. opportunistic voting
2. amazingly towny posts (528  (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20512.msg855229#msg855229)and 529) directly after I voted him (513), but not before or since.
3. Fake dismay about nk.
4. Suddenly giving advice to town, mostly the standard Day 3 things people say.
5. If I squint and look for the players who have not received attention, have not done much, yet have been around, Eevee pops out.
6. He was on the Joseph wagon.

This list reads like you decided to scumread eevee first and then came up with reasons after
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 11, 2020, 07:15:35 pm
Adorable mutts getting whacked left and right! Ugh!

Alright people....eevee is spot on. Weíve got to get this right.

Here is the final vote count...I think at least 2 scum are on Glooble. Maybe even all three. ADK and chairs are pretty high on my list.


Glooble (6): faust, Robz888, ADK, chairs, Eevee, Space
chairs (2): Glooble, WCD
Eevee (1): EFHW

Not Voting (2): Dylan, Galz

What changed your read on me from yesterday?

Glooble being town
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: SpaceAnemone on October 11, 2020, 07:16:05 pm
Robz being alive D3 as an IC is interesting. We know he's mostly been voting for townies, because he was on both Glooble and Joseph D1, and Glooble was his only vote D2. The only other person he voted on D1 was Didds.

Perhaps scum are just keeping him around because his reads are off. Though it's also worth considering whether scum might also like to keep him around to fool us into thinking we have a doctor when it may not be true. So if they're finding his reads are bad, it might be easier for them to justify that kind of a gambit, since it gives them a free safe-claim that we have "evidence" exists in the game.

Of course, I may also be casting doubt on a townie role that actually exists, if scum aren't being that sneaky here.. I just figure it's worth throwing that out there as a scenario before anyone moves to claims. This thought is mostly brought to you by the fun Robz and I and our scum buddy had in the last game I was in, which was also a case of doing something that seemed like it wouldn't be good for scum, but getting a better payoff just because it wasn't what town expected.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on October 11, 2020, 07:22:14 pm
My first inclination is chairs chairs. Instinctively makes sense that scum would have piled on glooble, him being the second leading candidate.

We should have started consolidating votes earlier yesterday. Town points to Space for trying to muster votes late yesterday. We needed more activity also!

I think space's activity is only townie if chairs is scum. Otherwise it's null
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on October 11, 2020, 07:26:57 pm
Adorable mutts getting whacked left and right! Ugh!

Alright people....eevee is spot on. Weíve got to get this right.

Here is the final vote count...I think at least 2 scum are on Glooble. Maybe even all three. ADK and chairs are pretty high on my list.


Glooble (6): faust, Robz888, ADK, chairs, Eevee, Space
chairs (2): Glooble, WCD
Eevee (1): EFHW

Not Voting (2): Dylan, Galz

What changed your read on me from yesterday?

Glooble being town

Were you scumreading glooble yesterday?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Eevee on October 11, 2020, 08:17:02 pm
I think Eevee has to be scum here.

1. opportunistic voting
2. amazingly towny posts (528  (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20512.msg855229#msg855229)and 529) directly after I voted him (513), but not before or since.
3. Fake dismay about nk.
4. Suddenly giving advice to town, mostly the standard Day 3 things people say.
5. If I squint and look for the players who have not received attention, have not done much, yet have been around, Eevee pops out.
6. He was on the Joseph wagon.
1 2 not proud of it, i've been pretty lazy this game
3 not fake, we have not been doing great
4 why is this bad?
5 fair
6 fair, i maintain that for day1 we rarely do better
7 i didnt think i could get back on before the deadline and wanted to avoid the noexile
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Eevee on October 11, 2020, 08:17:19 pm
I think Eevee has to be scum here.

1. opportunistic voting
2. amazingly towny posts (528  (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20512.msg855229#msg855229)and 529) directly after I voted him (513), but not before or since.
3. Fake dismay about nk.
4. Suddenly giving advice to town, mostly the standard Day 3 things people say.
5. If I squint and look for the players who have not received attention, have not done much, yet have been around, Eevee pops out.
6. He was on the Joseph wagon.

This list reads like you decided to scumread eevee first and then came up with reasons after
agreed!
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Eevee on October 11, 2020, 08:18:57 pm
My first inclination is chairs chairs. Instinctively makes sense that scum would have piled on glooble, him being the second leading candidate.

We should have started consolidating votes earlier yesterday. Town points to Space for trying to muster votes late yesterday. We needed more activity also!

I think space's activity is only townie if chairs is scum. Otherwise it's null
this is true. from my perspective 3/7 of you are scum now, so it's actually reasonable to be pretty confident in your scumreads right now, small consolation there.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on October 11, 2020, 08:28:04 pm
My first inclination is chairs chairs. Instinctively makes sense that scum would have piled on glooble, him being the second leading candidate.

We should have started consolidating votes earlier yesterday. Town points to Space for trying to muster votes late yesterday. We needed more activity also!

I think space's activity is only townie if chairs is scum. Otherwise it's null
this is true. from my perspective 3/7 of you are scum now, so it's actually reasonable to be pretty confident in your scumreads right now, small consolation there.

The thing is that the general lack of activity yesterday makes me think that scum was ok with either exile, so chairs is probably also likely to be town
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Eevee on October 11, 2020, 08:29:20 pm
Good thing is, we've reached the fun stage in any mafia game! No scum deaths, but there should definitely be things to be gleaned from rereads now. Pinky swear I'll be reading through the key people tomorrow or the day after. One pretty important thing in this situation for townies is we must be pretty stubborn in our reads, so many scum out there sheeping is no good here. Also as important as finding scum is identifying town, people you'd be comfortable voting with. My feeling right is that person is ADK and as I said, mostly feeling scum from chairs, but rereads will hopefully provide more clarity on both fronts.

What do we know of the scum roles in the game?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Eevee on October 11, 2020, 08:29:36 pm
My first inclination is chairs chairs. Instinctively makes sense that scum would have piled on glooble, him being the second leading candidate.

We should have started consolidating votes earlier yesterday. Town points to Space for trying to muster votes late yesterday. We needed more activity also!

I think space's activity is only townie if chairs is scum. Otherwise it's null
this is true. from my perspective 3/7 of you are scum now, so it's actually reasonable to be pretty confident in your scumreads right now, small consolation there.

The thing is that the general lack of activity yesterday makes me think that scum was ok with either exile, so chairs is probably also likely to be town
That is not unreasonable.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 11, 2020, 08:31:30 pm
Adorable mutts getting whacked left and right! Ugh!

Alright people....eevee is spot on. Weíve got to get this right.

Here is the final vote count...I think at least 2 scum are on Glooble. Maybe even all three. ADK and chairs are pretty high on my list.


Glooble (6): faust, Robz888, ADK, chairs, Eevee, Space
chairs (2): Glooble, WCD
Eevee (1): EFHW

Not Voting (2): Dylan, Galz

What changed your read on me from yesterday?

Glooble being town

Were you scumreading glooble yesterday?

No... but I also acknowledge that D2 was a rough work week for me so I wasnít terribly tuned in. Eevee was my biggest scumread yesterday.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: EFHW on October 11, 2020, 08:58:16 pm
I think Eevee has to be scum here.

1. opportunistic voting
2. amazingly towny posts (528  (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20512.msg855229#msg855229)and 529) directly after I voted him (513), but not before or since.
3. Fake dismay about nk.
4. Suddenly giving advice to town, mostly the standard Day 3 things people say.
5. If I squint and look for the players who have not received attention, have not done much, yet have been around, Eevee pops out.
6. He was on the Joseph wagon.

This list reads like you decided to scumread eevee first and then came up with reasons after
agreed!
What makes it seem like that? I scumread him based on points 1, 2, 5 and 6. The other 3 points came to mind as I organized my thoughts.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on October 11, 2020, 09:42:05 pm
Adorable mutts getting whacked left and right! Ugh!

Alright people....eevee is spot on. Weíve got to get this right.

Here is the final vote count...I think at least 2 scum are on Glooble. Maybe even all three. ADK and chairs are pretty high on my list.


Glooble (6): faust, Robz888, ADK, chairs, Eevee, Space
chairs (2): Glooble, WCD
Eevee (1): EFHW

Not Voting (2): Dylan, Galz

What changed your read on me from yesterday?

Glooble being town

Were you scumreading glooble yesterday?

No... but I also acknowledge that D2 was a rough work week for me so I wasnít terribly tuned in. Eevee was my biggest scumread yesterday.

When did you come to the feeling that glooble flipping town would implicate me as scum?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on October 11, 2020, 09:52:33 pm
I think Eevee has to be scum here.

1. opportunistic voting
2. amazingly towny posts (528  (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20512.msg855229#msg855229)and 529) directly after I voted him (513), but not before or since.
3. Fake dismay about nk.
4. Suddenly giving advice to town, mostly the standard Day 3 things people say.
5. If I squint and look for the players who have not received attention, have not done much, yet have been around, Eevee pops out.
6. He was on the Joseph wagon.

This list reads like you decided to scumread eevee first and then came up with reasons after
agreed!
What makes it seem like that? I scumread him based on points 1, 2, 5 and 6. The other 3 points came to mind as I organized my thoughts.

It's a weird mix of non-specific references to his previous play and to the posts he made immediately prior; to me it doesn't read like you had just read some or all of Eevee's posts and found them scummy, but were looking for something to say about another player

1- how do you define opportunistic voting? Where has Eevee done that?
2- why does this point to Eevee being scum?
3- why do you think Eevee's dismay is fake?
4- why is Eevee saying these things scummy and not null?
7- do you think chairs is scum?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Robz888 on October 11, 2020, 10:27:48 pm
Galz talks soon or we exile him.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Robz888 on October 11, 2020, 10:28:52 pm
I think Iím still around because I present no threat to scum, arguably that makes Eevee look quite suspicious.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: chairs on October 11, 2020, 10:32:21 pm
Vote: Galzria

Should've done this Yesterday.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Galzria on October 11, 2020, 10:53:11 pm
Galz talks soon or we exile him.

Talk talk talk - my browser is having difficulty loading on my phone at the moment, but Iím on PTO right now and will be home all day tomorrow/all week - so if I donít get to posting as of tomorrow I fully support this sentiment (although not, because Iím town, but Iím certainly doing nothing to help us, so...)

All Iím saying is: Reasonably, hold me to being engaged fully starting tomorrow.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: EFHW on October 11, 2020, 11:54:23 pm
I might not have time until Tuesday, but I will go through and specify more about why Eevee is our best bet for scum today, imo.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: faust on October 12, 2020, 07:59:51 am
My first impulse is Vote: ADK

but I have to go back and reevaluate this game I suppose.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: chairs on October 12, 2020, 08:13:00 am
I might not have time until Tuesday, but I will go through and specify more about why Eevee is our best bet for scum today, imo.

I mean I can see the Eevee argument myself, and since Galz has appeared and promised to post...


Vote: eevee
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Eevee on October 12, 2020, 12:08:34 pm
seems i'm a popular lynch candidate, i think it would be good for everyone to take a firm position on whether they think that's a good idea or not.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Robz888 on October 12, 2020, 12:25:00 pm
seems i'm a popular lynch candidate, i think it would be good for everyone to take a firm position on whether they think that's a good idea or not.

I think it's a good idea! Sorry man, but you seem like a very plausible scum candidate given my continued survival. Though it's not the only plausible reason, of course.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Eevee on October 12, 2020, 12:28:45 pm
seems i'm a popular lynch candidate, i think it would be good for everyone to take a firm position on whether they think that's a good idea or not.

I think it's a good idea! Sorry man, but you seem like a very plausible scum candidate given my continued survival. Though it's not the only plausible reason, of course.
The way multiple people came out posting about me kind of makes me think scum might have wanted that to be the prevailing narrative today.

But weíll see. Iíll try to get a couple rereads in tomorrow, got too busy today. Poker actions been booming!
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on October 12, 2020, 01:41:00 pm
seems i'm a popular lynch candidate, i think it would be good for everyone to take a firm position on whether they think that's a good idea or not.

I think it's a bad idea and I don't understand where the sentiment is coming from
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 12, 2020, 02:03:16 pm
seems i'm a popular lynch candidate, i think it would be good for everyone to take a firm position on whether they think that's a good idea or not.

I think it's a bad idea and I don't understand where the sentiment is coming from

Then whoís on your list?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Swowl on October 12, 2020, 02:31:36 pm
If all players could please try to send me a message in your personal QT just saying "Hi" or something. There may be some issues with Quick Topic happening on their end and I want to make sure no one is getting error messages when they try to post.
Thanks!
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Swowl on October 12, 2020, 02:34:14 pm
Vote Count 3.1:

ADK (1): faust
Eevee (1): chairs

Not Voting (7): WCD, EFHW, ADK, Galz, Eevee, Space, Robz

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.
Day 3 starts now and ends on October 18th at 6:28PM Forum Time.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: SpaceAnemone on October 12, 2020, 04:58:23 pm
Does anyone think it's at all likely that neither faust nor ADK is scum here?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Eevee on October 12, 2020, 05:44:11 pm
It's not at all likely that any pair of two is town. Why do you ask about them two specifically?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on October 12, 2020, 06:58:42 pm
Does anyone think it's at all likely that neither faust nor ADK is scum here?

I know I'm not scum and faust isn't high on my list
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on October 12, 2020, 06:59:25 pm
seems i'm a popular lynch candidate, i think it would be good for everyone to take a firm position on whether they think that's a good idea or not.

I think it's a bad idea and I don't understand where the sentiment is coming from

Then whoís on your list?

Quite frankly I'm starting to think it's you, sorry
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 12, 2020, 07:10:04 pm
seems i'm a popular lynch candidate, i think it would be good for everyone to take a firm position on whether they think that's a good idea or not.

I think it's a bad idea and I don't understand where the sentiment is coming from

Then whoís on your list?

Quite frankly I'm starting to think it's you, sorry

Think harder, then, because we need to get this right and itís not me.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 12, 2020, 07:11:39 pm
Highest on my lists are eevee and space. Give those a think...
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on October 12, 2020, 08:00:28 pm
Highest on my lists are eevee and space. Give those a think...

Space I can see. The question about everyone thinking there's scum between faust and me is quite scummy
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Swowl on October 12, 2020, 08:41:49 pm
It seems whatever the issue was with QTs has been resolved.
If anyone gets an error message when trying to post in their QT during this game, please PM me.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: EFHW on October 12, 2020, 11:59:18 pm
Does anyone think it's at all likely that neither faust nor ADK is scum here?

Based on what?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: faust on October 13, 2020, 04:23:35 am
I keep coming back to this vote count (colors mine):

Joseph (4): Galzria, Dylan, Eevee, Glooble
Glooble (4): ADK, Space, faust, Robz888
EFHW (3): Joseph, MiX, WCD
ADK (2): EFHW, chairs

A couple of interesting observations here:
- the only people off both town wagons are Didds, EFHW, chairs. That set is likely to contain scum.
- Space switches from town!Glooble to known!VT!Joseph soon after. I really don't think that's what scum wants to be doing there. So Space can be town.
- this means that (from my perspective) the only potential scum on the Gooble wagon as ADK.
- we have Galzria and Eevee on the Joseph wagon; I don't think they are both scum. Both were lurky and just went along with the Dylan case, that would make them potential lurker exiles going forward.
- so, where is scum? We have EFHW and chairs on ADK. Suppose EFHW/chairs are a team. I don't see both of them pushing a non-wagon when the EFHW wagon poses a threat right there. At least one of them would join a counterwagon.
- then there is Didds on the EFHW wagon. Same position as ADK on Glooble; only nonconfirmed person on that wagon.

What do we have? {Galz/Eevee} has at most 1 scum, {EFHW/chairs} has at most one scum, Space is town, by PoE there is at least 1 scum in {ADK/Didds}. I'm favoring ADK at the moment as we know that the wagon he was on was on town, whereas EFHW could still be scum.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: faust on October 13, 2020, 07:08:52 am
Notes about ADK.

Early on goes after MiX and Glooble.
There is the bit where 3 people in a row (EFHW, Dylan, Joseph) townread them and then ADK goes "exactly one scum there!" Two of those have since flipped town. I think if ADK is scum, then this implicates EFHW.
Defends Galzria for a bit.
Kind of hedgy on Joseph but their vote remains on Glooble.
D2 starts out with a bad case on Space. ADK pushes this for a bit and then changes to chairs. Okay, that's somewhat towny, scum likes to stick to the cases they made.
They seem to keep townreading me. I'm not sure what to make of that.
There is a whole weird flip-flop on Glooble, going from scumread to townread and back in a small amount of time.
There is a strange amount of defending people on D3. We have a whole bunch of scum but ADK is apparently townreading me, Eevee, chairs. It's kind of towny I suppose.

I'm still comfortable with the vote but at some point want to check Diddsy.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: SpaceAnemone on October 13, 2020, 07:39:51 am
Okay, so that's pretty interesting, and shows who's paying attention to what cases to some extent.

I asked about faust and ADK because it's central to the case faust was pushing on Glooble in D2, and in fact faust has now re-posted exactly the key wagon he used for his Glooble case, but with Glooble now coloured green.

The people who reacted to my question are:

1. Eevee at #688, asking why that pair in particular. He was on the Glooble exile wagon, but apparently "Welp I think it's time to vote glooble" was his only justification there (post #633).

2. ADK, who asserts their towniness, but also doesn't scumread faust. ADK was already pushing Glooble, but it's interesting they didn't seem to pay attention to the reason why faust was pushing so much on the evidence that (as I was trying to point out yesterday!) was really saying "one scum in {Glooble, ADK, faust}, rather than specifically pointing at Glooble.

Special note for Didds, who completely avoided engaging with my question, but did state me as a scumread with no justification.

3. EFHW, who asks "Based on what?" at #695. At least in EFHW's case, she was just ignoring the Glooble wagon and voting Eevee D2.

I think ADK comes off the scummiest of these, though I'm willing to go back and consider Eevee again by now too.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 13, 2020, 10:20:23 am
Hi! hi! hi! hi!

I feel like I am finally starting to climb out from under the mountain of work that I was under. I hate it that we got so far behind during that time. I guess the one upshot is that it makes some of the POE easier.
What do we have? {Galz/Eevee} has at most 1 scum, {EFHW/chairs} has at most one scum, Space is town, by PoE there is at least 1 scum in {ADK/Didds}. I'm favoring ADK at the moment as we know that the wagon he was on was on town, whereas EFHW could still be scum.

I really appreciate this kind of thinking. It helps me see. Thank you, faust. 
I spent most of D1 voting for EFHW.  I am still not convinced that she is town, but if she is scum she is the one who got to stay off the town wagons without looking stubborn. Daychat ftw.

I spent most of D2 voting for eevee and he is still my most enduring scumread (even though I love you, boo). I honestly can't see a scum Galz so thoroughly abandoning his team and not voting at all D2. So, if there is scum in that 2, eevee is the way to go.

I am not as certain that Space is town, but I am willing to put that on the back burner for the time being. They were instrumental in both the Joseph and Glooble exile, but then again they were visibly instrumental.

Swowl will you please prod: Galzy again? It's been almost 36 hours since he said he would be more present....so in the interest of holding him to that, give him an ear flick from us.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 13, 2020, 10:23:42 am
Okay, so that's pretty interesting, and shows who's paying attention to what cases to some extent.

I asked about faust and ADK because it's central to the case faust was pushing on Glooble in D2, and in fact faust has now re-posted exactly the key wagon he used for his Glooble case, but with Glooble now coloured green.

The people who reacted to my question are:

1. Eevee at #688, asking why that pair in particular. He was on the Glooble exile wagon, but apparently "Welp I think it's time to vote glooble" was his only justification there (post #633).

2. ADK, who asserts their towniness, but also doesn't scumread faust. ADK was already pushing Glooble, but it's interesting they didn't seem to pay attention to the reason why faust was pushing so much on the evidence that (as I was trying to point out yesterday!) was really saying "one scum in {Glooble, ADK, faust}, rather than specifically pointing at Glooble.

Special note for Didds, who completely avoided engaging with my question, but did state me as a scumread with no justification.

3. EFHW, who asks "Based on what?" at #695. At least in EFHW's case, she was just ignoring the Glooble wagon and voting Eevee D2.

I think ADK comes off the scummiest of these, though I'm willing to go back and consider Eevee again by now too.
Sorry, Space!  I wasn't trying to not engage with your question, I just wasn't in the head space to think about it at the moment.  I wanted to see what ADK thought about eevee and you, so providing justification seemed counterproductive.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Eevee on October 13, 2020, 11:09:00 am
Okay, so that's pretty interesting, and shows who's paying attention to what cases to some extent.

I asked about faust and ADK because it's central to the case faust was pushing on Glooble in D2, and in fact faust has now re-posted exactly the key wagon he used for his Glooble case, but with Glooble now coloured green.

The people who reacted to my question are:

1. Eevee at #688, asking why that pair in particular. He was on the Glooble exile wagon, but apparently "Welp I think it's time to vote glooble" was his only justification there (post #633).

The thread seemed dead, it was like two hours before the deadline and I couldn't get back on before it (actually turns out I did, but I didn't know). I had a townread on Glooble all day yesterday, including when I voted, but I figured that Robz knows all that I do, and if he supports the exile it has to be better than noexiling. I think noexiling is pretty much always bad for town, so I did what I felt I needed to.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Eevee on October 13, 2020, 11:10:32 am
Didds is correct, we need more Galz!

Calling a Galz/Space/Didds scumteam btw, to look cool at the end of the game if I'm right!
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Eevee on October 13, 2020, 11:14:16 am
I appreciate faust laying his logic so clearly, even if I think there are some leaps there that I wouldn't be comfortable making. In general I'm always pretty wary of "x people were on wagon and x were off so there must be this many scum here and this many scum there" - I just don't think it's ever so clear (like, if that held true couldn't scum just do something else and completely bamboozle us?). I appreciate the effort, and I'm willing to concede you can maybe assign a slightly higher probability for different compositions (like all scum being on or off is probably less likely than them being split), but in no way would I be comfortable asserting "based on these two wagons, there must be exactly one scum between these two people. (sorry that was probably confusing)

Also love you too didds, never taking it personal if someone mistakenly thinks i'm scum, not if it's a wrong!townie or if is a lying!scum. The game is the game!)
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Eevee on October 13, 2020, 11:18:12 am
Does anyone think it's at all likely that neither faust nor ADK is scum here?
This feels like a pretty scummy post, like Space is gauging what we think so they'd know the optimal plan of attack. Especially because from a townie's perspective literally any pair is likely to have scum in this situation.

In general I think the people who have expressed their stances strongly are townier here, scum wants to maintain maximum flexibility because it's not at all clear who we are exiling and they are fine with literally any but 3 options and want to be able to potentially contribute to them later. I guess by that logic strong scumreads aren't towny, but strong townreads are. So yet more townpoints for ADK!
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Eevee on October 13, 2020, 11:27:05 am
chairs seems to have stopped posting when people posted suspicions of him, that's not a towny thing to do.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: chairs on October 13, 2020, 12:24:36 pm
Chairs has been busy IRL, but yes I should post more.

I'm trying to parse the various viewpoints here, but basically the argument is that it is likely to be one of (adk, Eevee, efhw) right?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: chairs on October 13, 2020, 12:25:04 pm
Sorry, I guess there's also a SpaceCamp.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 13, 2020, 12:59:14 pm
Iím waiting in line to vote. Itís a long line. I might be here for three days.

Le sigh...
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Eevee on October 13, 2020, 01:05:56 pm
Donít give up waiting! Thatís absolutely horrible though. Never had to wait more than 5 minutes in Finland.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 13, 2020, 01:20:58 pm
I wonít give up! This is the first day of early voting in Texas, so weíre among the enthusiastic. Iím in the shade now, so itís much more pleasant. And the line has moved about 50 meters. Maybe only 90 minutes more?

There is a cat sitting on the front porch of the house across the street. Just lazing in the shade. Swowl totally named this game correctly!
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Robz888 on October 13, 2020, 01:47:49 pm
I really want to vote for Galz, but I sort of have to think scum!Galz would not lurk to this degree...
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Robz888 on October 13, 2020, 01:48:30 pm
Eevee... man, Eevee actually does not sound like scum!Eevee to me.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: Robz888 on October 13, 2020, 01:50:20 pm
I keep coming back to this vote count (colors mine):

Joseph (4): Galzria, Dylan, Eevee, Glooble
Glooble (4): ADK, Space, faust, Robz888
EFHW (3): Joseph, MiX, WCD
ADK (2): EFHW, chairs

A couple of interesting observations here:
- the only people off both town wagons are Didds, EFHW, chairs. That set is likely to contain scum.
- Space switches from town!Glooble to known!VT!Joseph soon after. I really don't think that's what scum wants to be doing there. So Space can be town.
- this means that (from my perspective) the only potential scum on the Gooble wagon as ADK.
- we have Galzria and Eevee on the Joseph wagon; I don't think they are both scum. Both were lurky and just went along with the Dylan case, that would make them potential lurker exiles going forward.
- so, where is scum? We have EFHW and chairs on ADK. Suppose EFHW/chairs are a team. I don't see both of them pushing a non-wagon when the EFHW wagon poses a threat right there. At least one of them would join a counterwagon.
- then there is Didds on the EFHW wagon. Same position as ADK on Glooble; only nonconfirmed person on that wagon.

What do we have? {Galz/Eevee} has at most 1 scum, {EFHW/chairs} has at most one scum, Space is town, by PoE there is at least 1 scum in {ADK/Didds}. I'm favoring ADK at the moment as we know that the wagon he was on was on town, whereas EFHW could still be scum.

From this analysis I would most suspect ADK, chairs, Didds
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: EFHW on October 13, 2020, 02:02:26 pm
Eevee... man, Eevee actually does not sound like scum!Eevee to me.
He's turning on the town charm, just like he did the last time I voted him.

Alright, here you go: I am the German Shephard and I investigated Eevee last night. He is mafia.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 13, 2020, 02:08:13 pm
Wow!!
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 13, 2020, 02:09:22 pm
Was that your first shot?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: EFHW on October 13, 2020, 02:11:42 pm
No. N1 was MiX. I was blocked that night, though. Most likely by him, *sigh*
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Robz888 on October 13, 2020, 02:16:30 pm
Cool, cool. Good job, EFHW. Sorry we couldn't figure that out on our own.

Vote: Eevee
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Eevee on October 13, 2020, 02:21:38 pm
Vote: Eevee

Team, execute plan 2 imo. Obv whatever you feel best, but I think the situation is pretty promising for it.

Thanks all, this was fun! I'll prob take a break again, but see you 2021 and stay safe!
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: EFHW on October 13, 2020, 02:24:12 pm
vote: Eevee.

Thought I already was.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: EFHW on October 13, 2020, 02:24:37 pm
We need one more.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 13, 2020, 02:25:08 pm
Vote: Eevee
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: EFHW on October 13, 2020, 02:25:48 pm
Vote: Eevee

Team, execute plan 2 imo. Obv whatever you feel best, but I think the situation is pretty promising for it.

Thanks all, this was fun! I'll prob take a break again, but see you 2021 and stay safe!
You too!
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Swowl on October 13, 2020, 02:30:09 pm
Vote Count 3.Final:

Eevee (5): chairs, Robz888, Eevee, EFHW, WCD
ADK (1): faust

Not Voting (3): ADK, Galz, Space

With 9 alive, it took 5 to lynch.


Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 13, 2020, 02:33:27 pm
Good work, EFHW!! I hope that was the break we needed.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Swowl on October 13, 2020, 02:35:05 pm
(https://i.ibb.co/Sx9Dqgr/eevee.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)

While it may look like we have lost a wild Eevee... in fact....

Eevee has been exiled!
They were the Mafia-Aligned Calico Cat!



Night 3 starts now and ends October 15th at 2:35pm Forum Time.
Night actions are due in 36 hours.

THREAD LOCKED!


Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Swowl on October 15, 2020, 07:43:42 pm
EFHW  has died at night! They were the Town Aligned German Shepard!
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Swowl on October 15, 2020, 07:45:35 pm
Vote Count 4.0:

Not Voting (7): WCD, ADK, Galz, faust, chairs, Space, Robz

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.
Day 4 starts now and ends on October 22nd at 7:45PM Forum Time.


THREAD UNLOCKED!
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on October 15, 2020, 09:03:05 pm
My reads are apparently absolute garbage this game

Right now I think that I'm most suspicious of didds, the vote post on eevee with no commentary seems out of character for her
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 15, 2020, 09:33:59 pm
Which one? The hammer?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 15, 2020, 09:41:25 pm
EFHW and I were both voting for Eevee all day D2. He was my biggest scumread and I said that clearly yesterday.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Robz888 on October 15, 2020, 09:44:34 pm
Bernie Sanders voice: I am once again asking for Galzria to speak.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 15, 2020, 09:45:49 pm

ADK, here is where I articulated the eevee scumread yesterday. Not as clear as I remembered it in my mind, but still clear.


Hi! hi! hi! hi!

I feel like I am finally starting to climb out from under the mountain of work that I was under. I hate it that we got so far behind during that time. I guess the one upshot is that it makes some of the POE easier.
What do we have? {Galz/Eevee} has at most 1 scum, {EFHW/chairs} has at most one scum, Space is town, by PoE there is at least 1 scum in {ADK/Didds}. I'm favoring ADK at the moment as we know that the wagon he was on was on town, whereas EFHW could still be scum.

I really appreciate this kind of thinking. It helps me see. Thank you, faust. 
I spent most of D1 voting for EFHW.  I am still not convinced that she is town, but if she is scum she is the one who got to stay off the town wagons without looking stubborn. Daychat ftw.

I spent most of D2 voting for eevee and he is still my most enduring scumread (even though I love you, boo). I honestly can't see a scum Galz so thoroughly abandoning his team and not voting at all D2. So, if there is scum in that 2, eevee is the way to go.

I am not as certain that Space is town, but I am willing to put that on the back burner for the time being. They were instrumental in both the Joseph and Glooble exile, but then again they were visibly instrumental.

Swowl will you please prod: Galzy again? It's been almost 36 hours since he said he would be more present....so in the interest of holding him to that, give him an ear flick from us.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 1!!!!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on October 15, 2020, 10:18:53 pm

ADK, here is where I articulated the eevee scumread yesterday. Not as clear as I remembered it in my mind, but still clear.


Hi! hi! hi! hi!

I feel like I am finally starting to climb out from under the mountain of work that I was under. I hate it that we got so far behind during that time. I guess the one upshot is that it makes some of the POE easier.
What do we have? {Galz/Eevee} has at most 1 scum, {EFHW/chairs} has at most one scum, Space is town, by PoE there is at least 1 scum in {ADK/Didds}. I'm favoring ADK at the moment as we know that the wagon he was on was on town, whereas EFHW could still be scum.

I really appreciate this kind of thinking. It helps me see. Thank you, faust. 
I spent most of D1 voting for EFHW.  I am still not convinced that she is town, but if she is scum she is the one who got to stay off the town wagons without looking stubborn. Daychat ftw.

I spent most of D2 voting for eevee and he is still my most enduring scumread (even though I love you, boo). I honestly can't see a scum Galz so thoroughly abandoning his team and not voting at all D2. So, if there is scum in that 2, eevee is the way to go.

I am not as certain that Space is town, but I am willing to put that on the back burner for the time being. They were instrumental in both the Joseph and Glooble exile, but then again they were visibly instrumental.

Swowl will you please prod: Galzy again? It's been almost 36 hours since he said he would be more present....so in the interest of holding him to that, give him an ear flick from us.

I forgot about that, though bussing is definitely a thing
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: SpaceAnemone on October 16, 2020, 06:49:52 am
I think ADK highly likely to be scum here, for a few reasons:

We've already gone over the Glooble wagon evidence from D1, and  I think faust's logic with respect to me and my voting behaviour doesn't feel like it's coming from place of scumminess.

There's also some other PoE info now. Eevee joined the Chairs wagon in 3rd place in D2, making it the leading wagon at #511, and I think that would have been risky had Chairs been scum too, but makes sense if ADK is. Plus, Chairs started the Eevee wagon on D3, and stuck to it throughout. While it could be a scum bus, at that point they didn't know that EFHW had solid evidence, so they wouldn't necessarily have been expecting to have to sacrifice Eevee.

Back on that D2 wagon, Glooble left the Chairs wagon at #573 (leaving just Eevee and ADK), and then ADK right away moved onto Glooble at #575, which could be coincidence, but could be scum trying to pivot onto an alternative mixile, rather than leaving two scums and no towns voting for a particular person.

Anyway, with thinking that Chairs is on the townier side, that's actually some helpful PoE in itself, given who's left. Similarly, I feel that faust is on the townier side for his handling of the wagon info that points to (at least) one of him and ADK being scum. Didds and Galz are the two unknowns left, and I lean scum on Didds over Galz, but it would be nice if the latter could check in at some point.

Vote: ADK
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: faust on October 16, 2020, 07:39:25 am
I feel like a look at Didds is needed here, just from what I remember about the wagons. Of course there's also an Eevee reread coming up. I won't have a lot of time this weekend unfortunately.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 16, 2020, 07:45:18 am
I think itís ADK and chairs. Most of this is based off of the analysis that faust did yesterday and the conclusions about partner pairings.

Iíll wait to vote for them until everyone else has had a chance to say hey.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 16, 2020, 07:46:32 am
I think itís ADK and chairs. Most of this is based off of the analysis that faust did yesterday and the conclusions about partner pairings.

Iíll wait to vote for them until everyone else has had a chance to say hey.

By them, I mean Iíll vote for ADK
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: SpaceAnemone on October 16, 2020, 08:01:28 am
I think itís ADK and chairs. Most of this is based off of the analysis that faust did yesterday and the conclusions about partner pairings.

Iíll wait to vote for them until everyone else has had a chance to say hey.

What's your reason for not suspecting Galz, other than that he isn't saying anything?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on October 16, 2020, 09:10:03 am
I think ADK highly likely to be scum here, for a few reasons:

We've already gone over the Glooble wagon evidence from D1, and  I think faust's logic with respect to me and my voting behaviour doesn't feel like it's coming from place of scumminess.

There's also some other PoE info now. Eevee joined the Chairs wagon in 3rd place in D2, making it the leading wagon at #511, and I think that would have been risky had Chairs been scum too, but makes sense if ADK is. Plus, Chairs started the Eevee wagon on D3, and stuck to it throughout. While it could be a scum bus, at that point they didn't know that EFHW had solid evidence, so they wouldn't necessarily have been expecting to have to sacrifice Eevee.

Back on that D2 wagon, Glooble left the Chairs wagon at #573 (leaving just Eevee and ADK), and then ADK right away moved onto Glooble at #575, which could be coincidence, but could be scum trying to pivot onto an alternative mixile, rather than leaving two scums and no towns voting for a particular person.

Anyway, with thinking that Chairs is on the townier side, that's actually some helpful PoE in itself, given who's left. Similarly, I feel that faust is on the townier side for his handling of the wagon info that points to (at least) one of him and ADK being scum. Didds and Galz are the two unknowns left, and I lean scum on Didds over Galz, but it would be nice if the latter could check in at some point.

Vote: ADK

Why is chairs on the townier side?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 16, 2020, 09:19:14 am
I think itís ADK and chairs. Most of this is based off of the analysis that faust did yesterday and the conclusions about partner pairings.

Iíll wait to vote for them until everyone else has had a chance to say hey.

What's your reason for not suspecting Galz, other than that he isn't saying anything?

Thatís it, really. I donít feel I have anything to evaluate. If he shows up, that would be helpful.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: SpaceAnemone on October 16, 2020, 09:21:25 am
I think ADK highly likely to be scum here, for a few reasons:

We've already gone over the Glooble wagon evidence from D1, and  I think faust's logic with respect to me and my voting behaviour doesn't feel like it's coming from place of scumminess.

There's also some other PoE info now. Eevee joined the Chairs wagon in 3rd place in D2, making it the leading wagon at #511, and I think that would have been risky had Chairs been scum too, but makes sense if ADK is. Plus, Chairs started the Eevee wagon on D3, and stuck to it throughout. While it could be a scum bus, at that point they didn't know that EFHW had solid evidence, so they wouldn't necessarily have been expecting to have to sacrifice Eevee.

Back on that D2 wagon, Glooble left the Chairs wagon at #573 (leaving just Eevee and ADK), and then ADK right away moved onto Glooble at #575, which could be coincidence, but could be scum trying to pivot onto an alternative mixile, rather than leaving two scums and no towns voting for a particular person.

Anyway, with thinking that Chairs is on the townier side, that's actually some helpful PoE in itself, given who's left. Similarly, I feel that faust is on the townier side for his handling of the wagon info that points to (at least) one of him and ADK being scum. Didds and Galz are the two unknowns left, and I lean scum on Didds over Galz, but it would be nice if the latter could check in at some point.

Vote: ADK

Why is chairs on the townier side?

From the very text you quoted above: "Eevee joined the Chairs wagon in 3rd place in D2, making it the leading wagon at #511, and I think that would have been risky had Chairs been scum too, but makes sense if ADK is. Plus, Chairs started the Eevee wagon on D3, and stuck to it throughout."
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: chairs on October 16, 2020, 09:58:58 am
I'm holding out hope for some Galz posting.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: chairs on October 16, 2020, 10:00:26 am
My thoughts, though:

ADK / Didds probably has one scum in it.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Robz888 on October 16, 2020, 10:33:42 am
I'm looking at ADK, Didds, chairs, essentially.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 16, 2020, 11:04:25 am
Swowl, can you please change the heading to Day 4? Thank you!
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on October 16, 2020, 11:18:31 am
I'm looking at ADK, Didds, chairs, essentially.

Why not space?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: SpaceAnemone on October 16, 2020, 02:19:11 pm
I'm looking at ADK, Didds, chairs, essentially.

Why not space?

I still find it odd that you don't have more suspicion on faust. I mean, I think he's townie, but if you flip town then he's the first one I'd have to re-evaluate.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on October 16, 2020, 02:30:38 pm
I'm looking at ADK, Didds, chairs, essentially.

Why not space?

I still find it odd that you don't have more suspicion on faust. I mean, I think he's townie, but if you flip town then he's the first one I'd have to re-evaluate.

I think he's townie too! Just because I'm town that doesn't mean he's not
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: Robz888 on October 16, 2020, 03:49:14 pm
I'm looking at ADK, Didds, chairs, essentially.

Why not space?

I read space as town here.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on October 17, 2020, 08:44:44 am
Prod request: Galz
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: Robz888 on October 17, 2020, 01:01:39 pm
I'm worried he's going to get mod-killed and town will just straight up lose, so please don't do that!
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: chairs on October 17, 2020, 01:11:58 pm
That's a possibility, but I'm worried we're going to let him off with basically no posting and he's going to have the laziest scum game in history.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on October 17, 2020, 02:49:43 pm
How about

vote: galz
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: chairs on October 17, 2020, 03:27:47 pm
Vote: Galz
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: Galzria on October 17, 2020, 03:57:04 pm
textbook inc today - in process now.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: Swowl on October 17, 2020, 04:31:58 pm
Vote Count 4.1:

Galzria (2): ADK, chairs
ADK (1): Space

Not Voting (4): WCD, Galz, faust, Robz

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.
Day 4 ends on October 22nd at 7:45PM Forum Time.

Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: SpaceAnemone on October 17, 2020, 05:23:43 pm
Wow, so little is happening that I haven't posted in over 24h just though lack of things to say.

Obviously, I'm not feeling strong town vibes from the Galz wagon, but it's true that even a devastating policy exile on town there would leave us at 3v2, so it's not quite enough incentive for scum to QH, even if they were able to.

Does Galz's post mean he's writing us a textbook? I'm going to assume "inc" is "incoming"...
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: faust on October 17, 2020, 05:25:38 pm
I'm here but I'm DMing this weekend and it's taking pretty much all my resources.

Those Galzria votes are weird, not sure if scummy.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on October 17, 2020, 05:59:31 pm
I'm here but I'm DMing this weekend and it's taking pretty much all my resources.

Those Galzria votes are weird, not sure if scummy.

I'm mostly just frustrated by his complete lack of presence so far
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: Robz888 on October 17, 2020, 06:41:29 pm
One of those Galz votes is from scum, yes?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: SpaceAnemone on October 17, 2020, 07:08:22 pm
One of those Galz votes is from scum, yes?

I do tend to think so, though there are some not-entirely-impossible alternatives: Galz could be scum with either faust or WCD (though I don't think either of those scenarios is that likely), or there's a tiny outside chance of faust-WCD as scum, with that entire Galz wagon being townie. None of those three pairings seems more likely than any pairing involving ADK and the others, though.

I think the most likely scum-pairing right now seems to be ADK-Didds, though my Didds case is mainly only PoE, so I'm interested to see what faust has to say about her, since he mentioned wanting to do a re-read there.

I do feel like the current Galz wagon makes Galz-ADK and Galz-Chairs unlikely scum-pairings, because if scum!Galz got bussed by a teammate here, that would risk townies throwing frustrated votes at Galz just because of his extended absence and lack of game contributions to date, which could trap bussing scum uncomfortably.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on October 17, 2020, 07:12:27 pm
I think the most likely scum-pairing right now seems to be ADK-Didds

It's interesting that you think that because didds is probably my top scumread
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: Robz888 on October 17, 2020, 07:16:28 pm
One of those Galz votes is from scum, yes?

I do tend to think so, though there are some not-entirely-impossible alternatives: Galz could be scum with either faust or WCD (though I don't think either of those scenarios is that likely), or there's a tiny outside chance of faust-WCD as scum, with that entire Galz wagon being townie. None of those three pairings seems more likely than any pairing involving ADK and the others, though.

I think the most likely scum-pairing right now seems to be ADK-Didds, though my Didds case is mainly only PoE, so I'm interested to see what faust has to say about her, since he mentioned wanting to do a re-read there.

I do feel like the current Galz wagon makes Galz-ADK and Galz-Chairs unlikely scum-pairings, because if scum!Galz got bussed by a teammate here, that would risk townies throwing frustrated votes at Galz just because of his extended absence and lack of game contributions to date, which could trap bussing scum uncomfortably.

I actually would not discount scum bussing scum!Galz here, necessarily.

On the other hand, while I hate to reward Galz's level of activity with a town read, that's honestly where I'm at.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 17, 2020, 07:34:01 pm
Textbook incoming today? So heís gonna write a boatload?

ADK...ah, man...if Iím your top scumread then Iím for sure that your scumreader is broken this game. Or youíre scum. If nothing else, the fact that I was right about Eevee, when everyone except EFHW thought he was town, should be a decisive point in my favor.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on October 17, 2020, 07:40:57 pm
Textbook incoming today? So heís gonna write a boatload?

ADK...ah, man...if Iím your top scumread then Iím for sure that your scumreader is broken this game. Or youíre scum. If nothing else, the fact that I was right about Eevee, when everyone except EFHW thought he was town, should be a decisive point in my favor.

Maybe my scumradar is broken. But I was wrong about eevee and I'm town, and I think that if I was scum and my partner was getting a wagon on day three then I would bus
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 17, 2020, 07:52:25 pm
Fair enough....but I was voting for him on D2 and said I vote for him (not voting because danger!) early on D3 before there was a result. Literally no one was listening on D2 and up until EFHW said he was scum everyone thought he was town. It was definitely a minority opinion.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: Galzria on October 18, 2020, 01:40:13 pm
Update: This hasn't disappeared for me. My VCA thoughts are complete, I have finished my full scope re-reread, and I have two more ISO's to finish up. Still working on this and will have everything posted out soon!
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 18, 2020, 02:06:33 pm
Bated breath!
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: Robz888 on October 18, 2020, 02:57:04 pm
Waiting for Galzria, by Samuel Beckett
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 18, 2020, 03:01:11 pm
+ 1
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: Galzria on October 18, 2020, 03:28:41 pm
Waiting for Galzria, by Samuel Beckett

Is everyone completely talked out without my posting? That's kinda sad.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: Galzria on October 18, 2020, 03:33:50 pm
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong here (and I don't see it mentioned), but with MiX being a Rot, the Calico was converted into an Encryptor, giving scum day-chat. Eevee flipped Calico though, which means scum has lost day-chat, yes?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: SpaceAnemone on October 18, 2020, 04:19:17 pm
Waiting for Galzria, by Samuel Beckett

Is everyone completely talked out without my posting? That's kinda sad.

Here's a word count of everyone in the game so far:

Player word counts:
   5291 SpaceAnemone
   3167 Glooble
   2962 Eevee
   2711 EFHW
   2619 faust
   2560 WestCoastDidds
   2372 Dylan32
   2056 A Drowned Kernel
   1989 MiX
   1343 Chairs
   1026 Galzria
   695 Robz888
   598 Joseph2302

You've said less in this game than MiX, and he died N1. You also didn't vote at all in D2 or D3, and your only votes in D1 were on the IC and on Joseph.

The way I see it, you're absolutely screwing all of us over for PoE by not being present. If you didn't want to kill the conversation in a game you've been killing with a lack of participation, why on earth have you spent the last 24 hours vaguely flagging an intention to say something without actually participating?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: SpaceAnemone on October 18, 2020, 04:21:30 pm
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong here (and I don't see it mentioned), but with MiX being a Rot, the Calico was converted into an Encryptor, giving scum day-chat. Eevee flipped Calico though, which means scum has lost day-chat, yes?

The wording in the mod-posted scum QT examples says "While you're alive, your Mafia QT will be unlocked for both the Day and the Night", so I read that to mean that now Eevee is no longer alive, they no longer have daychat.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: Galzria on October 18, 2020, 04:27:42 pm
Waiting for Galzria, by Samuel Beckett

Is everyone completely talked out without my posting? That's kinda sad.

Here's a word count of everyone in the game so far:

Player word counts:
   5291 SpaceAnemone
   3167 Glooble
   2962 Eevee
   2711 EFHW
   2619 faust
   2560 WestCoastDidds
   2372 Dylan32
   2056 A Drowned Kernel
   1989 MiX
   1343 Chairs
   1026 Galzria
   695 Robz888
   598 Joseph2302

You've said less in this game than MiX, and he died N1. You also didn't vote at all in D2 or D3, and your only votes in D1 were on the IC and on Joseph.

The way I see it, you're absolutely screwing all of us over for PoE by not being present. If you didn't want to kill the conversation in a game you've been killing with a lack of participation, why on earth have you spent the last 24 hours vaguely flagging an intention to say something without actually participating?

And yet still more words than Robz, who is also alive and kicking (not knocking you here Robz, just refuting the validity of Space's overly dramatic point).

And I'm hardly screwing anybody over for PoE. I'm one data point out of thirteen players, three of whom are scum, one of whom has flipped. There's plenty of PoE to do, with or without my input.

Lastly, I've found that acknowledging that you're working on putting something together is generally much more useful than not saying anything at all while you do so - it A) prevents, you know, Mod-Kills, and B) gives others something to hold you accountable to.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 18, 2020, 05:28:46 pm
Space is on fire! They're not wrong, if a bit more pointed than I'd likely put it, and I think its a shared sentiment. 

All of which is to say, welcome back Galzy. What are you thinking about the game. Hopefully the absence gave you some perspective that will help us!
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: Robz888 on October 18, 2020, 10:14:08 pm
We're doing WORD counts now? This has not been a particularly chatty game for most of us, that's true.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: Robz888 on October 18, 2020, 11:22:40 pm
Vote: ADK
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: Robz888 on October 18, 2020, 11:24:54 pm
Unvote
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: Robz888 on October 18, 2020, 11:26:31 pm
Nah, I'll stick with it

Vote: ADK
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: Galzria on October 19, 2020, 12:38:57 am
Hey, look, a thingy!

Alright, well, aside from D2 getting away from me - I was fully mid-read on D3 when EFHW dropped the result on Eevee and the lynch went through in 6 posts. Didn't even have time to notice that it happened, as I had the thread open to 'All' and didn't see that series of posts go down until afterward.

I don't even know where exactly to start here, but I guess I'll put the ISO's first, some VCA stuff and voting thoughts after, and overall conclusions at the end.

The most obvious place to start ISO's is with Eevee, I suppose.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Eevee:

Eevee's first 9 posts are mostly NAI stuff. Eevee is asked specific questions from faust & Space, but nothing that makes him really put down anything concrete - it just generates interaction. His first real stated read is in post #101, where he finds WCD towny:
Have we seen Dylan or Joseph yet?

I think maybe scum EFHW is more present. Iím not finding I gotta anything off about MiX at all, so far. Eevee is always wonderful and so far, not scummy. ADKs annoyance with people not voting makes me giggle and also typical...but perhaps the least interesting in terms of trying to sort people. Galz is hanging back more than Iíd guess.

faust and space are hard for me to figure out. Glooble is tricky here....I know he is busy, but also when heís scum he gets quiet.

Who am I missing? Oh, chairs! I have zero ability to read chairs. I always think sheís scummy. He rarely is.

Vote: ADK
I think this is a towny post. I like the content, and the idea of doing a reads post, all in all good feels.
Generally speaking, this is something I feel scum more often says about town than about scum, especially early on when getting the game established. Still, there is no immediate direct harm in making this read about a partner here, so it could go either way. For my preference though, it slightly moves the needle on WCD towards town.

Eevee's next post, #116, expresses a town read on Glooble for getting frustrated by MiX. This is in line with what I would expect from early scum!Eevee. He's going to set out to build relationships with towns people to extend his general town-credy nature.

Post #201 is the first significant post Eevee makes in terms of really getting a feel for partners. I would expect Eevee to have slightly conflicting reads on his partners. Nothing super concrete as either scummy or towny. "I think they're town BUT they're doing scummy things" sort of thing. Gives him pivot options down the road.
I reread ADK, absolutely don't want to lynch them. Feels they're making a lot of analysis, while I don't agree with all of the conclusions I think that kind of player is so useful to have around.

I'm reading through individual people, looking for someone to vote for.

chairs: Fairly lurky, but I really enjoyed the long reads post even if it was mostly fluff.

Joseph: I'd expect more visibility and participation from Joseph, but the posts he have made seem towny to me. Seems to be trying to figure out the game, asking things I was wondering about too.

EFHW: Ever so slight scum points for the early mention of being scum so often lately, just feel those jokes are more likely to come from scum.

Dylan and Space: Very few posts still (for understandable reasons), hard to say yet.

faust: Surprisingly lurky, but he's the kind of player I was describing when rereading ADK, I'm hesitant to lynch but would like more from.

I guess I'll vote: chairs
Eevee gives reads on 6 players in this post: Dylan, EFHW, and Joseph are all town. ADK he expresses a strong town read on. faust and Chairs are middle ground. I would lean towards scum being more likely in {Chairs, faust} over ADK here.

Post #398 is interesting to me, because Eevee doubles down on a few things: Calling ADK really super particularly townie, and suggesting interest in seeing a Chairs lynch.
Grunch grunch!

I also think Glooble is town (but ADK is townier).

I really think Joseph is a good bet, and I wouldn't oppose a lurker exile (say chairs). Mix lately has been behaving like I'd expect from his townself, but come to think of it not sure I've ever seen him as scum, as much as I've always thought he was.

Main point, not sure why the Joseph wagon fizzled, I didn't find his defense compelling at all. I didn't see Didds's original posts as scummy as others, but the defense didn't ring very genuine to me, I'll be keeping my eye out on them.

All in all, deadline close, the case on Joseph was a GREAT d1 case, I really think we should go for that.

Also funny sidenote, if Robz wasn't the IC, I'd totally be calling for his lurker lynch now, haha. (... I know his play makes sense for IC, just think it's funny that it makes sense for IC and scum to play sort of the same way.)
Both stand out as somewhat scummy takes. While the read on ADK in #201 was slightly less suspect the first time around, the doubling down on it here feels slightly out of place. Like, if ADK is town, what's the point? I guess the reason it bugs me here is that it was an uncalled for read. He was actually expressing a town read on Glooble, and then he casually threw in that he reads ADK as even MORE town. There was no reason for that addition. The consideration I have towards the Chairs read is that in post #201, when Eevee first expressed this read, there was no other real expressed interest in Chairs (Glooble had voted there in post #69, but had since moved on) - it was a completely safe place for Eevee to put his vote (if they're partnered). Eevee left his vote on Chairs until #285 (when he moved to Joseph), and then from #324-#378 faust was voting Chairs. Eevee didn't really circle back around to this Chairs read until again, there was no expressed interest in a Chairs lynch. It just feels like from a partner narrative, Eevee kept pinging Chairs whenever Chairs had no real action around him and it was safe to do so.

This post also makes my WCD needle read slightly townier again. While it's later in the day and unlikely that we'll see movement to WCD, the way Eevee presents the read on WCD makes me feel like they aren't partnered. Not only does he suggest re-evaluating his own previous very slight town read on WCD,but he subtly reminds others that they used to have early scum reads on her.

In post #407, Eevee suggests that "follow the IC" might be necessary as deadline approaches. It's notable that the IC's reads to that point were largely expressed by votes on Glooble (#109), Joseph (#250), WCD (#305), & Glooble (#385). Two of those three players are now flipped town. At this point in time, Joseph had hit a peak of 6 votes (#339: Galzria, Dylan, Eevee, Glooble, MiX, Chairs), WCD had reached a peak of 3 votes (#308: Robz, EFHW, Chairs), and Glooble had hit a peak of 4 votes (#385: ADK, faust, Space, Robz).

In post #417, Eevee expresses a feeling that my post in #416 is scummy because I expressed reservations on Joseph due to Eevee's presence on the wagon, and read Glooble as town. This makes me feel good about my gut reads.

Post #494 is Eevee's first real post from D2. There's a handful of things to take note of here:
Catching up now.

My instinct is that the people who followed dylan onto joseph are much more likely to be scum than he is, particularly since pretty much every one of those votes was justified by saying "Dylan's case seems solid". If he's scum he's bold scum, and I don't feel like I've played enough with him to tell if that's his style

This is a really good point I think.



Space seems more than usually preoccupied with how she's coming off as, and maybe kind of overexplaining herself? The points she's making make logical sense to me though, but she's so eloquent that maybe I shouldn't read too much into it.

ADK continues to look towny to me, also think Glooble is probably town from yesterday. I think Dylan is towny for pushing Joseph, paradoxically enough. faust I don't have much of an impression on yet which is weird, same for Galzria which I'd say makes both more than mildly suspicious.

I would guess that scum killed Mix because he's headstrong and his reads were good, at least in some capacity? Could also be a sign for Robz that his reads yesterday were not correct.

First, clearly, is the continued unshakable town read on ADK. But let's briefly unpack ADK's point that Eevee was agreeing with. Dylan first voted for Joseph in post #283. The votes for Joseph that "followed" Dylan are: Eevee (#285), Glooble (#314), MiX (#337) & Chairs (#339). The conclusion of that series of votes is what put Joseph at 6 votes the first time around. Given MiX was killed N1, it would be slightly unusual for Eevee to push the consideration of this list if both he and Chairs are scum. Especially because he goes on to state a town read on Glooble from D1 in the same post. As Eevee goes on to cast the third vote on Chairs (#511), this is the strongest piece of evidence that Chairs and Eevee are NOT partners. Note that faust had previously D2 been voting for Chairs (#472-#497), and could've very easily come back to the wagon.

The ONLY thing that detracts from that line of thought is the fact that scum had daychat, and it's a lot easier to coordinate bussing. Still, to believe Chairs is Eevee's partner, you'll need to believe that Eevee advocated looking closely at a list that was essentially {Eevee, Glooble, Chairs}, and that he then generally stated a town read on Glooble while shortly after voting Chairs. Meh.

Day 3 doesn't hold a whole heck of a lot of interesting things from Eevee. He comes in pretty quick trying to pick up interest in the Chairs wagon (although never actually votes there). He continues to express a town read on ADK, going so far as to say he's the one player he would feel comfortable tying his vote to (#667). He contends that he was a super popular exile choice and that he had real concern over being lynched D2 (and that the narrative of his non-exile would consume D3) - it's notable that he only ever reached 2 votes on D2, one from EFHW (#512), and one from WCD (#514) - although perhaps you could argue that there was plenty of other expressed interest in his exile (my last post of D1 suggested exactly that from me, so). He makes what is really only his second ever read on Space in #704 (first was #494, quoted above). In neither does Eevee actually make any attempt to generate interest on Space. It's much more of a passing comment. In fact, most anything Eevee had to say regarding Space was about them, rather than engaging with them. I feel like overall that's more scummy than neutral. Lastly, in #702 Eevee calls a "scumteam" of {WCD, Galzria, Space}. I have a really hard time believing he put all town in that list, and just based on the overall ISO here I feel WCD is townier than Space.

Eevee has strikingly few interactions around faust. Like, really, it's tough for me to think that scum!Eevee wouldn't have done more to engage town!faust, whereas I can see him steering clear of scum!faust. Still, the lack of interaction makes it harder to pin anything really solid here.

Based off everything from Eevee (exclusively), my gut says the remaining scum are two amongst {ADK, Space, faust}, and {WCD, Chairs} are town.
----------------------------------------------------------------
faust:

Let's just get this meaningless point out there: The longer faust lives into a game, the more likely he is to be scum.

A lot of early fluff posts from faust. I might normally find this scummy, but he's been playing looser later in general. First post that stands out to me is #155, wherein he pushes ADK on his "Three people town reading me must mean one is scum" point.
Three people in a row saying I'm townie is noteworthy. I'm going to guess that there's exactly one scum on that group
Want to also veture a guess which one it is?
When you consider those three people were all town (EFHW, Dylan, Joseph), this is the sort of narrative and discussion that scum loves. Some arbitrary grouping of people that are all town to paint as scummy? Yeah... That said, I don't think this is any MORE scummy from faust than it is from ADK.

Ugh. Faust is really hard to pin down. Like, not that he's super sneaky, it's just that, try as I might to dig in and approach him with a scum narrative, he just reads as really, really townie to me. My usual feel for Faust is "Super-Tunnel-Vision he's scum" D1, which gives way to "I still really think he's scum" D2, and then usually ends in "Ok, I'm wrong, he's town" OR "I'm right, he's scum" D3, and usually I'm right at that point.

faust has a lot interactions. He has votes (ADK, Joseph, Chairs, Glooble on D1. Chairs, Glooble on D2. ADK on D3), although maaaaybe I could argue he's been a little too dialed with his votes. D4 and he's only voted for 4 of 12 (discounting himself) players feels slightly as if he's not interested in pursuing real reads/lynches - except I can't really argue that because I don't feel like the content of his posts actually supports it.

I guess the things that kinda stand out to me, if I had to pick them, are that he's one of the few players that seemed to scum read ADK at various points throughout the game (ADK has largely been town read), and he's deflected from Space without really interacting with Space. But neither of those are concrete things. I would say his voting record is more (potentially) indicative of him being scum. He has almost no direct interactions with Eevee - certainly none that point towards his alignment. Overall, I just think faust is more towny than not.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
WCD:

My initial thought here is that WCD is the most likely to call for an early MiX NK - MiX reads WCD well, and I know she doesn't like being scum when he's town.

All the normal early fluff posts are here. That's NAI for WCD. Her first post is #97, where it's a little striking that she feels the need to create a read for every player in the game. It shouldn't be that hard for town to say "Hey, game's barely begun, I have no idea what's what!", whereas I think scum!Didds is a little more worried about seeming as if she's trying to form reads.
Have we seen Dylan or Joseph yet?

I think maybe scum EFHW is more present. Iím not finding I gotta anything off about MiX at all, so far. Eevee is always wonderful and so far, not scummy. ADKs annoyance with people not voting makes me giggle and also typical...but perhaps the least interesting in terms of trying to sort people. Galz is hanging back more than Iíd guess.

faust and space are hard for me to figure out. Glooble is tricky here....I know he is busy, but also when heís scum he gets quiet.

Who am I missing? Oh, chairs! I have zero ability to read chairs. I always think sheís scummy. He rarely is.

Vote: ADK
As far as the reads themselves go, she town reads Eevee - but it's notable that she has a hard time expressing reads on so many people that are still alive (faust, Space, Chairs) - it's only notable because she's actively TRYING to form reads on EVERYONE though. Had she only had two or three reads up to this point, I really wouldn't blink an eye at the people she didn't mention (I would assume she didn't have reads on them). I don't know. It makes it harder to pin down possible partner connections. I guess I should note that she DID have an opinion on a flipped scum (even if it was town), so if WCD is in fact scum, she's not entirely hesitant to give her opinion on teammates.

WCD flips her read on ADK from post #97 to #174, but that's not entirely unreasonable this early in the game. She sheeps MiX onto me here though, which just feels a little lazy for her - especially given she hadn't really expressed a strong town read on MiX (she's more likely to sheep strong town reads). The reasoning behind MiX's vote left something to be desired though ("Not scummy, but really high chances of having gotten scum this game"), so this quick vote immediately following from WCD just feels off.

There's nothing really notable about WCD's #251, except that it's basically identical to Eevee's post in #252. The posts were 42 minutes apart - I don't think scum intentionally make these posts, but I'm not convinced they avoid it either:
Whatís the argument on Jospeh?
Why are we voting Joseph?

It's interesting to me that despite expressing opinions about multiple people, WCD doesn't get around to moving her vote from me (#174) until #361. During that time, Glooble had reached 3 votes, Joseph had gone from 0 votes to 6 votes, EFHW had upwards of 3 votes - and Chairs, MiX, ADK had all had votes. WCD herself went from 0 to 3 votes during this time. Her vote (and MiX's from #173), along with MiX re-voting me in #226 were the only votes cast on me. And WCD never actually expressed any real read on me (certainly she never justified her vote) other than that I was quieter than she thought I should be - a charge made equally against Joseph and faust (#214). This just feels off for WCD.

WCD opens D2 (#439) with an "Oh no! Not X!" (In this case, MiX) post, which is an extremely classic scum post - but coming from WCD specifically, maybe not so much.

#514 is the first really interesting post D2. A simple, unexplained (initially) vote for Eevee. This is the second vote for Eevee, following EFHW's vote two posts prior. One would think WCD was sheeping EFHW here - which would be really, really weird given WCD's push of EFHW as scum herself starting in post #361. This absolutely feels like opportunistic early Bus Cred.

Let's look at post #549:
Iím reading and following along, but Iím super swamped right now my apologies for not bring more engaged. Hopefully Iíll be out from under soon.

For me, Eevee and EFHW are on the scummy side of the street. Chairs is close to them.

Space and Glooble somewhere in the middle. Galz I guess, too.

ADK, faust, and Dylan on the friendly side.
If we assume Eevee and WCD are partners, it's unlikely that Chairs is the third. I don't really see WCD putting both partners in the bottom 3, even if neither are in any serious danger. I would expect at most 1 in the bottom tier, and 1 in the middle tier (if she's underplaying her reads). Honestly though, I would expect 1 partner in the bottom/middle, and 1 in the top. WCD nightmare scenario is being the last scum alive. She doesn't throw both partners under the bus. This means that if she's partners with Eevee, my most expected third would be ADK or faust, with an outside chance of Space. The vote for Chairs in #620 "over Glooble or faust", which puts Chairs at 3 (to match the 3 on Glooble) almost - ALMOST secures the non-pair between WCD and Chairs. Caveat being Daychat.

Starting D3, WCD agrees with Eevee that we have to get the exile right - she then turns to EoD VCA on Glooble. What's odd here is that, despite WCD being on the Eevee train D2 (the mostly non-existent Eevee train, mind you), WCD concludes "I think at least 2 scum are on Glooble. Maybe even all three. ADK and chairs are pretty high on my list." Here's the entire quote, which includes the EoD wagon:
Adorable mutts getting whacked left and right! Ugh!

Alright people....eevee is spot on. Weíve got to get this right.

Here is the final vote count...I think at least 2 scum are on Glooble. Maybe even all three. ADK and chairs are pretty high on my list.


Glooble (6): faust, Robz888, ADK, chairs, Eevee, Space
chairs (2): Glooble, WCD
Eevee (1): EFHW

Not Voting (2): Dylan, Galz

Sooooo.... why the sudden change? And ADK had been a solid town read of WCD's for quite some time. Interesting VCA note from my PoV: With Glooble, Dylan and EFHW all being town, either WCD is scum, or in fact all three scum WERE on the Glooble wagon. With daychat that's not entirely implausible. Especially if faust is scum - he's more aware of VCA's use amongst f.ds players than anybody I know.

And then WCD's reads flip back again in #691/#692:
seems i'm a popular lynch candidate, i think it would be good for everyone to take a firm position on whether they think that's a good idea or not.

I think it's a bad idea and I don't understand where the sentiment is coming from

Then whoís on your list?

Quite frankly I'm starting to think it's you, sorry

Think harder, then, because we need to get this right and itís not me.
Highest on my lists are eevee and space. Give those a think...

Like, where did this Space read come from? And now she's back to Eevee? This is all very inconsistent.

The last thing I have here for WCD is that she is trying really, really hard today to make it seem like she was all over Eevee for being scummy earlier in the game when... the truth is that just wasn't the case. Yes, she voted Eevee D2, and spent much of the day with her vote parked there. She even has a few places where she tries to get discussion going on Eevee - but she's never fully committed to it, and it's at a time when Eevee is completely unlikely to be exiled. This feels a lot like scum trying to get credit for having scum reads on scum... without ever having *really* tried to get scum exiled.

ISO'd out, WCD has a LOT of scum points against her.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADK:

ADK is notoriously difficult for me to read. They often have a lot of engagement, and it's active engagement. They aren't just commenting on things, but interacting. This *should* make it easier to make reads, but their tone feels so natural that I always read it as genuine, which then reads as townie. Problem for me is, this is true for scum!ADK too.

ADK has very little fluff early on. Gets right into it. Nothing really stands out until post #154, when they throw out the whole "Three people town reading me in a row makes me feel one is scum" line of thought. All three of those people have since flipped town. What's that say about ADK? Nothing, I guess, just that I didn't like the reasoning D1, and especially don't like it now that we have flips.

ADK is very aggressive. They've had and pushed a lot of scum reads on flipped town players - but that's often as much a town trait as it is a scum trait. They're the only person to have voted Space (#436) opening D2. They've been largely town read, and have peaked at just 2 votes.

ADK pushes Space pretty hard out of the gate D2, but then abruptly and without reason switches to Chairs in post #456. Not really sure here, but it's the first thing that stands out as non-genuine. In #461, ADK brings around the argument that the people that followed Dylan onto Joseph are more likley to be scum than others. This list is Eevee (#285), Glooble (#314), MiX (#337) and Chairs (#339). I'm guessing this was the reason ADK voted for Chairs? If ADK is scum, Chairs most likely is not. Given MiX had already flipped town, it seems unlikely ADK pushes to setup a lynch pool of Scum!Eevee, Town!Glooble, Scum!Chairs.

ADK had almost no interactions with Eevee whatsoever, which is slightly notable as ADK interacted with a lot of players. He doesn't really speak much of faust either, but drops a hard town read on faust out of nowhere in #482.

The public discussion with faust regarding VCA in #486/#487 reads slightly partner-y to me. Given where we're at, looking at the Glooble Wagon, if WCD is town, then all 3 scum were on the Glooble wagon. Considering scum had daychat, there's definitely a certain degree of scummy awareness that keeps pinging me.

IAs noted, I have a hard time reading ADK, but if I were to say there's one thing that feels scummy to me about them it's that he feels very self aware, in a way that town often isn't. What they're doing and how it's perceived just... seem to matter to them. Everything feels intentional. I don't know how better to describe it. Their response to WCD in #657 for example (although I admit I too thought WCD's pivot was strange):
Adorable mutts getting whacked left and right! Ugh!

Alright people....eevee is spot on. Weíve got to get this right.

Here is the final vote count...I think at least 2 scum are on Glooble. Maybe even all three. ADK and chairs are pretty high on my list.


Glooble (6): faust, Robz888, ADK, chairs, Eevee, Space
chairs (2): Glooble, WCD
Eevee (1): EFHW

Not Voting (2): Dylan, Galz

What changed your read on me from yesterday?

or the way they deflect off Eevee in the following post:
I think Eevee has to be scum here.

1. opportunistic voting
2. amazingly towny posts (528  (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20512.msg855229#msg855229)and 529) directly after I voted him (513), but not before or since.
3. Fake dismay about nk.
4. Suddenly giving advice to town, mostly the standard Day 3 things people say.
5. If I squint and look for the players who have not received attention, have not done much, yet have been around, Eevee pops out.
6. He was on the Joseph wagon.

This list reads like you decided to scumread eevee first and then came up with reasons after

I don't know. It's a gut thing, I guess?

In #672 ADK doubles down on the Eevee defense, which is scummy... but... did they need to? Is it better to defend your partner there, or stay back and see how it plays out? That's very aggressive for partner play.

I'm torn on ADK. I'm really, really bad at reading them. My gut says scummy, and I think there are things that support that - but then I also feel like there are things that don't support them being scum with Eevee, so. :-/
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Space:

Space is also notoriously difficult for me to read. I generally rely on others opinion, or VCA - although I don't think I've seen scum!space very much.

The first post they make that catches my eye reads townie, and that's post #198. My general recollection is that scum!space has a harder time generating real reads than town!space.
After getting the vote counter going, I also started looking at where the earliest wagon formation started out. ADK is the first person to pick up a multi-vote wagon, at #97 where WCD joins faust on ADK. WCD's assessment was that ADK seemed to be displaying annoyance at people not voting. I don't quite see where that's from, tbh. The original ADK vote was from faust at #77, and was unexplained, but that's pretty common for faust.

From re-reading ADK, I'd say that they fall pretty early into the trap of focusing on what is and isn't normal MiX.

I agree with ADK's response to Eevee about it being more important for scum to live individually than for town.

EFHW's question to ADK at #102 is a bit odd, now I think about it. ADK was clearly criticizing MiX for contributing a lot of words without a lot of analysis, whereas very few people (me, Robz, faust and Dylan) have contributed fewer words than Galz. And on that tangent, I think it's fine for Robz not to say much yet as the IC, and I'm trying to make amends now, even though I'm really not a good D1 player. I think Dylan's been ill, and faust just isn't that verbose, but maybe I should double-check how much he has actually said. Anyway, back on my original point, ADK pointed the distinction out to EFHW at #104.. was that ever followed up/acknowledged?

ADK votes Glooble for a sarcastic comment about MiX being townie for sheeping the IC.

#139, another occasion where ADK directly disagrees with something Eevee says, and again, I feel that I agree more with ADK (in this case that tunnelling someone is an easy role for scum to assume, instead of being something that's hard for scum to mimic).

Aha, apparently from #154, I'm not very original in finding ADK townie. Oh well.

#157-#160: huh, more ADK-Eevee interaction around ADK's asserion that there's probably exactly one scum in the three people who found them townie, which was {EFHW, Dylan, Joseph} in that order.

Okay, so the tl;dr for that re-read is that I find ADK townie, but with an interesting amount of civil disagreement with Eevee in particular, and that I want to re-read faust.
I guess it would be amusing to me if the team were {Eevee, ADK, Space}, and Space chose to comment largely on their scummates.

There are a couple of places where Space indicates concern for how they will look if another player is exiled and flips scum (#445 for example), which coming from them feels townie. Obviously this isn't a concern for scum!Space, and I don't really feel like this is something scum!Space realizes MIGHT be a concern for town!Space. So, town points for that.

Really ISO'ing Space's EoD2 - and they genuinely read townie to me. Like, there seems to be genuine interest in finding scum, and genuine interest in getting the exile correct. If Space is scum, this EoD performance is very convincing, which is unusual for me, as I don't read them well at all.

I've really appreciated that Space has been drilling into the alignment of people that aren't yet flipped. As the remaining scum are amongst those players, it's refreshing to be ISO'ing a player that isn't making cases and arguments for players that are already dead and flipped.

I mean, look at #698 and tell me that doesn't sound like someone who is actually trying to find scum!:
Okay, so that's pretty interesting, and shows who's paying attention to what cases to some extent.

I asked about faust and ADK because it's central to the case faust was pushing on Glooble in D2, and in fact faust has now re-posted exactly the key wagon he used for his Glooble case, but with Glooble now coloured green.

The people who reacted to my question are:

1. Eevee at #688, asking why that pair in particular. He was on the Glooble exile wagon, but apparently "Welp I think it's time to vote glooble" was his only justification there (post #633).

2. ADK, who asserts their towniness, but also doesn't scumread faust. ADK was already pushing Glooble, but it's interesting they didn't seem to pay attention to the reason why faust was pushing so much on the evidence that (as I was trying to point out yesterday!) was really saying "one scum in {Glooble, ADK, faust}, rather than specifically pointing at Glooble.

Special note for Didds, who completely avoided engaging with my question, but did state me as a scumread with no justification.

3. EFHW, who asks "Based on what?" at #695. At least in EFHW's case, she was just ignoring the Glooble wagon and voting Eevee D2.

I think ADK comes off the scummiest of these, though I'm willing to go back and consider Eevee again by now too.

And finally, in un-Space-like fashion, they opened D4 here with a vote (and case) on ADK (#735), that follows up from their thoughts at the end of D3. I guess my question for Space would be: Your general thought process on D3 was prior to Eevee's alignment being known - has that flip changed anything for you?

Space has been, I think, the player I've re-read and most really, really felt is town. It's been refreshing and new! I like it!
----------------------------------------------------------------
Chairs:

Fluff until #120. Then this:
Let's be real, scumteam is MiX/Chairs/Robz and we bribed the mod to fake-IC Robz.  ::)

Thoughts:
0. Swowl
Obviously secretly playing as the grassy knoll scummer.

1. Dylan
HOW HAVE I NOT WRITTEN ANYTHING ABOUT YOU BY POST 56

2. WCD
First post - towny fluff.
IKR MIXIAN RESPONSE IS THE BEST.

3. EFHW
First post - towny fluff.
Next notable post is talking about liking cats despite being allergic. This is not very doglike behavior, EFHW, and I am disappointed.

4. ADK
First post calls out request for IC info. Means ADK read the setup. Reading the setup is scummy.
Votes MiX but feels the need to explain why. Explanations about MiX votes are for scum who want to feel better about wagoning their teammate (MiX, who is always scum). Scummy.
MIXIAN RESPONSE I love you, I'm not rewriting this post but you get a D1 pass now b/c I love this.
Tries to pair me as scum with mix. Is obviously trying to deflect from their own obvious pairing with mix.

5. Galz
Gets first post of D1, scummy. Eager to dig into MiX, known scum extraordinaire. Clearly D1 ploy to wagon a teammate for towncred. Scummy.
Votes Robz, confirmed Town.

6. Joseph

7. faust
Complicit in Swowl's plot to disenfranchise deserving dogs. Clearly a cat, and thus scum.
"Everybody wants to be a cat" notes. Everybody knows cats are stinky noodlebutts. DOG AM BEST BOI. SUPER SCUM.
Accuses mix of having trouble reading their own posts. I'm dying. Everyone knows cats don't have humor, so this must be a misdogerstanding.
votes ADK. ADK is the less obv of the obv!scum, so this is leaning me back towards dog-status more.

8. MiX
Tells Galz to trust his MiX!Radar. Neutral. We all have a great MiX!Radar, that being that MiX is always scum.
Votes EFHW. Thus, EFHW is Town.
Agrees with ADK voting MiX. IS MIX. Clearly a ploy to make scum!ADK look like town!ADK.
Votes EFHW... again? (reply 57). I can only assume this is some hardcore PR hunting.
Defends me. IS THIS THE RARE TOWN MIX? OR IS THIS A DIRTY CAT PLOY?

9. chairs
It's me! I'm amazing and practically perfect in every way.

10. Eevee
Trusting IC!Robz? Not a good look. Scum.
Fluffy? Good bois are fluffy and pettable. Maaaybe is dog?

11. Space
IS IN SPACE and thus a dog. Have you heard of any famous cats in space? NO. WE ONLY PUT GOOD DOGGOS IN SPACE. NO CAT.

12. Robz
IC.

13. Glooble
"Allergic to cats". Sounds like something a cat would say. Everyone knows even cats hate cats.
Votes me! Confirmed scum.

(14). Jotheonah
Killed N0 by Swowl. Basically John F Doggedy.



Okay I'm bored with that now, ran out of steam about post 84. Main takeaway? This game has had relatively little meat.

Specific notes in not-amusing-myself fashion:
MiX is bit fluffier than usual, which I actually think is a Town!MiX tell - I think scum!MiX kinda bares fangs a little quicker in the outset.
Eevee is stressing that Robz "reads me well" which feels a lil' scummy honestly.
XaL says vote: Dylan is a solid choice. Joseph also a good choice.
Robz as IC is great, because now I don't have to vote Robz off the island for being Robz, who I usually feel like plays a very scummy Town game (and a very scummy Scum game).
The way ADK has played off MiX makes me feel like ADK is kinda scummy.
faust comes off as, well, faust. I'd feel more towny about it from, say, Glooble, but for faust this is neutral.

JOHNNY FIVE NEEDS INPUT. More votes, folks.

Will try to read though stuff past 90 or so in a bit.
A lot of reads, some more serious than others. Slight scum read on Eevee this early stands out. His point isn't wrong - but I wouldn't expect it to get called out this early/quickly.

There aren't a lot of posts from Chairs, but he sheeps/votes a lot given the lack of overall posts. And he's all over the place. Take this post at #179:
Phone posting for like the next four days.

Not feeling good about this ADK situation that occurred. Feeling worse about the Galz situation.

Didds and MiX getting D1 passes from me

Followed by #308:
Vote: didds

Yeah that's a big ol nothing burger.

And #320:
MiX is sus. Haven't found a body but someone hit emergency meeting button. Gut feel.

Vote: mix

Or early(ish) on, in #262, when Chairs posts this:
Vote: glooble

I think the adk glooble interaction has me ready to vote one of them off the island and I think glooble has come off scummier in the interactions, personally.

And then this at #404:
Am I really lurking that much? Man, sorry. It doesn't feel like it on my end.

I think this it Town gloobs

I think the ADK argument from gloobs makes a lot of sense.

Vote: adk

In fact, Chairs votes for 6 unique people on D1, without doubling up on anybody. He then opens D2 voting for a 7th unique player (faust), before unvoting (#478) and casting his first repeat vote (#484) on Glooble. This then changes to an 8th unique player (me) in #547. For good measure, he got a vote on a Cop Caught Eevee D3 in #679, making 9 unique votes out of 12 cast.

It's almost as if he's just going off a checklist. This was post #478:
Okay good, my faust vote got d2 convos rolling. I can unvote now.

unvote

Leaning Gloobs but I want to actually take some time to reread.
Nobody else talked about faust or voted for him or did anything that even recognized the existence of the vote from the point in time he cast it (#455) to the above quote. It served no purpose, and didn't start any conversation. It's almost like Chairs has a quota to fill here.

And this, from #502, seems to confirm that Chairs is very aware of his play:
Question for chairs. What changed between here:

Vote: glooble

I think the adk glooble interaction has me ready to vote one of them off the island and I think glooble has come off scummier in the interactions, personally.

and here:

Am I really lurking that much? Man, sorry. It doesn't feel like it on my end.

I think this it Town gloobs

I think the ADK argument from gloobs makes a lot of sense.

Vote: adk

And now you're back on me again?



I'd love to hear some thoughts from Glooble on his D1 wagon.

Well, I've talked about ADK a lot. Robz is town. MiX was town. So that leave you, chairs and Space (taht's everyone who voted for me at all, I think.) See above for chairs- he goes back and forth between me and ADK in a way that I think it honestly pretty scummy. Space's initial vote for me reads like a joke vote. The weirdest thing is that they defend it like it was more serious than it initially appeared. Your vote doesn't come with a lot of explanation, I assume you just thought I was a better wagon than Joseph. But my wagon never had much substance to it.

Most likely scum is chairs I think. I'm still wary of ADK but my scumread on them has cooled somewhat, I think it was a little too emotionally motivated.

vote: chairs

PPE: faust voting for me

What happened mostly is that my votes and reads are mercurial, as always. This is not news ::) I always gutfeel my way through games, and I'm usually only really thinking about the last page or two of posts, tops, unless I have -just- read X pages (and even then, I find I just tie myself in knots if I don't just let everything flow like waves against the shore and see what treasure gets stuck in the sand).

And that's pretty much all from Chairs. Couple of votes for me each time it's brought up that I haven't posted.

His votes have also been extremely opportunistic, which I'll get into more in the VCA.

All in all, I would put him up there with WCD in terms of how scummy their individual ISO's are. This is true more for Chairs because of VCA (which will come next) than WCD, who is scummy because of her posts.
----------------------------------------------------------------

Going to continue with VCA's in a different post, and then do a third for complete thoughts.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: faust on October 19, 2020, 05:58:38 am
You've said less in this game than MiX, and he died N1. You also didn't vote at all in D2 or D3, and your only votes in D1 were on the IC and on Joseph.

The way I see it, you're absolutely screwing all of us over for PoE by not being present. If you didn't want to kill the conversation in a game you've been killing with a lack of participation, why on earth have you spent the last 24 hours vaguely flagging an intention to say something without actually participating?
You're stealing my lines!

Maybe it's just the most active players who get the most frustrated with inactivity. I have been less present here than usual, and so maybe Galzria's lurkiness has me less annoyed.

I gotta say though the complaints about Galz announcing a thing don't feel completely warranted. Clearly the kind of playstyle he follows requires a lot of time spent on each post. I think it's valid to say "I'm around working on something" when you are called out for inactivity; the alternative doesn't seem better.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: faust on October 19, 2020, 06:00:27 am
That's a possibility, but I'm worried we're going to let him off with basically no posting and he's going to have the laziest scum game in history.
Lol talk about the pot calling the kettle black.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: faust on October 19, 2020, 06:07:10 am
One of those Galz votes is from scum, yes?

I do tend to think so, though there are some not-entirely-impossible alternatives: Galz could be scum with either faust or WCD (though I don't think either of those scenarios is that likely), or there's a tiny outside chance of faust-WCD as scum, with that entire Galz wagon being townie. None of those three pairings seems more likely than any pairing involving ADK and the others, though.

I think the most likely scum-pairing right now seems to be ADK-Didds, though my Didds case is mainly only PoE, so I'm interested to see what faust has to say about her, since he mentioned wanting to do a re-read there.

I do feel like the current Galz wagon makes Galz-ADK and Galz-Chairs unlikely scum-pairings, because if scum!Galz got bussed by a teammate here, that would risk townies throwing frustrated votes at Galz just because of his extended absence and lack of game contributions to date, which could trap bussing scum uncomfortably.
I'm gonna chime in and say that I don't see how voting for Galzria serves a scum agenda here. It's not like he's just going to get quixiled. It just reads like an expression of frustation which is more townie than not (but certainly fakable).
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: faust on October 19, 2020, 06:30:28 am
Which reminds me that a Didds reread was promised. Galzria did a lot of quoting and stuff so I'll try to not do that, seems repetitive.

Hot take that EFHW not being present means she's town... comes like less than 100 posts into the game. Just feels like a throwaway read, encouraging lurkiness is of course a place that scum likes to be at. Unrelated ADK vote, cool. Then moving to Galz, which is sure fine whatever. Look we have Eevee and Didds asking back to back why there are Joseph votes; those posts follow one another directly but with like 40 minutes in between, so no PPE. I don't know that Eevee would just echo his scumpartner. Didds is playing defense on Joseph a little bit, that's a place that I'd think a scum would go. We go into late D1 and the wagons were a bunch of town and a bit of Didds and Didds doesn't like the other wagons a lot... sure I suppose. Didds puhses EFHW only to join her in her quest on Eevee... which is weird but really not all that scummy. I mean.. that's your scumpartner right there, no need to join a professed scumread. It doesn't last that long I suppose. But she's pushing unknown!chairs over town!Glooble at least. And in doing so joins Eevee. So either Eevee + Didds decided to go after town together or it's a hard bus? IDK, neither seems all that necessary.

All in all I don't think there's a lot of scumminess on display here.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: faust on October 19, 2020, 06:33:45 am
Here's a word count of everyone in the game so far:
Random question, is your word counting algorithm sophisticated enough to cut out quoted bits?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: faust on October 19, 2020, 06:40:11 am
I've been townreading Space but it's odd that everyone seems to agree that Space and I are town. If Space is indeed town, then that's not a winning strategy for scum. Unless they're really confident that they can misexile both townies in the remaining pool of 4.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: faust on October 19, 2020, 06:40:58 am
Vote: ADK
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on October 19, 2020, 08:57:38 am
unvote
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 19, 2020, 08:58:01 am
That is X-1 for ADK

Iím ready to hammer if yíall are ready to be done for today
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on October 19, 2020, 08:58:25 am
Vote: ADK

This is L-1 by the way

PPE: I have some stuff I would like to say if you don't mind
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 19, 2020, 09:00:53 am
Okay.... but I get the feeling youíll be coming after me, so it makes me nervous. :)
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on October 19, 2020, 09:03:23 am
Okay.... but I get the feeling youíll be coming after me, so it makes me nervous. :)

I'm the one at L-1 and you're the one everyone's townreading, so why should it make you nervous?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 19, 2020, 09:12:46 am
Galzy, some of the posts you find scummy are just me trying to get better at forming and articulating reads. Itís a work in progress. In my last game, scum killed me early because I was active so Iíve been trying to be less rando, but you know me....I kind of live for the chatter.

The other things Iíd say, reading two plus weeks of thoughts in a single sitting makes for an appearance of deliberate thought that isnít quite fair. Now, this is true for everyone, but really the case for me. When we started, I was in the midst of a book proposal and wasnít fully in this head space. Itís had for me to see the thoughts from before that was submitted and after it was submitted as continuous.

I prefer faustís assessment of...well, that was weird, but itís not scummy because it doesnít have any strategy behind it. Iím guessing that the VCA will bear this out once you get to that. If for no other reason, if I was going to bus, it wouldnít be the person who gave scum daychat. I freaking love daychat. Everyone knows this. It is known.

PPe- ADK, desperate people do desperate things! And I donít like being in anyoneís sights. Nervous is kind of my default. I am rarely relaxed when being picked apart.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on October 19, 2020, 09:24:35 am
But really, here's my takeaway so far from Galz's post:

-it's a particular combination of insightful and confused (that is, doesn't seem to have a specific agenda) to make me think that Galz is town

-the most useful part of it is his iso of eevee, which is enough for me to back off of didds for now

-regarding some stuff he said about me:

Quote
IAs noted, I have a hard time reading ADK, but if I were to say there's one thing that feels scummy to me about them it's that he feels very self aware, in a way that town often isn't. What they're doing and how it's perceived just... seem to matter to them. Everything feels intentional. I don't know how better to describe it. Their response to WCD in #657 for example (although I admit I too thought WCD's pivot was strange):
Adorable mutts getting whacked left and right! Ugh!

Alright people....eevee is spot on. Weíve got to get this right.

Here is the final vote count...I think at least 2 scum are on Glooble. Maybe even all three. ADK and chairs are pretty high on my list.


Glooble (6): faust, Robz888, ADK, chairs, Eevee, Space
chairs (2): Glooble, WCD
Eevee (1): EFHW

Not Voting (2): Dylan, Galz

What changed your read on me from yesterday?

I think I tend to be a self aware player in general (see: this post) because that's just how I am. And didds's sudden pivot on me was noteworthy enough to potentially be scummy, so it was something worth discussing

Quote
or the way they deflect off Eevee in the following post:
I think Eevee has to be scum here.

1. opportunistic voting
2. amazingly towny posts (528  (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20512.msg855229#msg855229)and 529) directly after I voted him (513), but not before or since.
3. Fake dismay about nk.
4. Suddenly giving advice to town, mostly the standard Day 3 things people say.
5. If I squint and look for the players who have not received attention, have not done much, yet have been around, Eevee pops out.
6. He was on the Joseph wagon.

This list reads like you decided to scumread eevee first and then came up with reasons after

I just want to point out that I was right about this

I'm running out of time before having to leave for work, so I might have more to say later. For now I guess I'm left supporting a chairs exile if y'all come to your sense and don't exile me

Oh, and btw I'm a VT since I got intent-to-hammered
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on October 19, 2020, 09:24:54 am
Some of that post got swallowed up in quotes
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: faust on October 19, 2020, 09:40:22 am
unvote

I at least want to see the rest of Galzria's work.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: faust on October 19, 2020, 09:43:10 am
Galzy, some of the posts you find scummy are just me trying to get better at forming and articulating reads. Itís a work in progress. In my last game, scum killed me early because I was active so Iíve been trying to be less rando, but you know me....I kind of live for the chatter.
So... you've been trying to be more lurky in order to avoid the nightkill?

The is so incredibly anti-town I don't even know what to say.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: faust on October 19, 2020, 09:46:01 am
In the span of 3 posts, Didds has shattered my conviction that ADK is the better exile.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on October 19, 2020, 10:27:58 am
Galzy, some of the posts you find scummy are just me trying to get better at forming and articulating reads. Itís a work in progress. In my last game, scum killed me early because I was active so Iíve been trying to be less rando, but you know me....I kind of live for the chatter.
So... you've been trying to be more lurky in order to avoid the nightkill?

The is so incredibly anti-town I don't even know what to say.

I feel like that's a misrepresentation of what didds was trying to say there
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: faust on October 19, 2020, 10:38:06 am
Galzy, some of the posts you find scummy are just me trying to get better at forming and articulating reads. Itís a work in progress. In my last game, scum killed me early because I was active so Iíve been trying to be less rando, but you know me....I kind of live for the chatter.
So... you've been trying to be more lurky in order to avoid the nightkill?

The is so incredibly anti-town I don't even know what to say.
How so?

I feel like that's a misrepresentation of what didds was trying to say there
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: faust on October 19, 2020, 10:38:35 am
Galzy, some of the posts you find scummy are just me trying to get better at forming and articulating reads. Itís a work in progress. In my last game, scum killed me early because I was active so Iíve been trying to be less rando, but you know me....I kind of live for the chatter.
So... you've been trying to be more lurky in order to avoid the nightkill?

The is so incredibly anti-town I don't even know what to say.

I feel like that's a misrepresentation of what didds was trying to say there

How so?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on October 19, 2020, 10:47:36 am
Galzy, some of the posts you find scummy are just me trying to get better at forming and articulating reads. Itís a work in progress. In my last game, scum killed me early because I was active so Iíve been trying to be less rando, but you know me....I kind of live for the chatter.
So... you've been trying to be more lurky in order to avoid the nightkill?

The is so incredibly anti-town I don't even know what to say.

I feel like that's a misrepresentation of what didds was trying to say there

How so?

I read it as her saying she's trying to be more thoughtful in her posts, which isn't the same as deliberately lurking
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 19, 2020, 10:53:22 am
Galzy, some of the posts you find scummy are just me trying to get better at forming and articulating reads. Itís a work in progress. In my last game, scum killed me early because I was active so Iíve been trying to be less rando, but you know me....I kind of live for the chatter.
So... you've been trying to be more lurky in order to avoid the nightkill?

The is so incredibly anti-town I don't even know what to say.

I feel like that's a misrepresentation of what didds was trying to say there

How so?

Iím not saying that Iím trying to be less present, I think I have largely succeeded in being present this game even though I was swamped at the beginning.

Iím trying to be less random and post with purpose. I like to talk so my inclination is to post whatever whenever because talking is fun and you all are interesting people. Turns out that is annoying to many. Further, one of my challenges is that I think by writing so I end up starting posts without knowing what my point is until Iíve written through it. Iím trying to do that less because when asked to explain later why I said a particular thing, only some people understand what I mean when I say I didnít really have a point and that isnít scummy, itís just me. I obviously still do this to some extent, but Iím working on having better arguments and not just having random responses in the same way that Iím working in reasons instead of just feelings.

As for trying to avoid the NK...yes. I did/do not want to be killed. In that game, it was frustrating to be killed early on in the only game going at the time, and then to discover itís because I was playing in a particular way led me to consider how I might improve.

PPE: yes, ADK. Thank you.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: faust on October 19, 2020, 11:09:30 am
As for trying to avoid the NK...yes. I did/do not want to be killed. In that game, it was frustrating to be killed early on in the only game going at the time, and then to discover itís because I was playing in a particular way led me to consider how I might improve.

PPE: yes, ADK. Thank you.
Well, it's just... if scum kills you N1, then that means you played a good game. Surviving until now means you played worse (or, you know, are scum). So you didn't improve, you got worse.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 19, 2020, 11:20:22 am
As for trying to avoid the NK...yes. I did/do not want to be killed. In that game, it was frustrating to be killed early on in the only game going at the time, and then to discover itís because I was playing in a particular way led me to consider how I might improve.

PPE: yes, ADK. Thank you.
Well, it's just... if scum kills you N1, then that means you played a good game. Surviving until now means you played worse (or, you know, are scum). So you didn't improve, you got worse.

In that game I was the doctor. It was devastating.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 19, 2020, 11:20:47 am
But yeah, I take your point otherwise.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: chairs on October 19, 2020, 12:40:51 pm
Unvote

I think I can understand Didds's logic here - "how do I balance my play in such a way that I maximize my utility to Town, both in terms of survival and scum detection?" is harder than it might seem at first. Especially if you're a PR.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: chairs on October 19, 2020, 12:42:07 pm
Ironically, despite my low word/post count, I feel like Didds and I approach posting similarly where it's just "posting what's on my mind right now"
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 19, 2020, 12:56:39 pm
Ironically, despite my low word/post count, I feel like Didds and I approach posting similarly where it's just "posting what's on my mind right now"

Ha! I clearly have lots more random thoughts in my mind (cake, the election, cat memes, work...) than most!
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: SpaceAnemone on October 19, 2020, 01:07:07 pm
Note to Robz: That big Galz wall is exactly why I added word counts to my vote-count script, since some players like you and ADK average barely 20 words per post, people like me and Dylan are averaging around 100 for this game, and next time I re-count, Galz will probably be averaging in the hundreds per post.

I guess my question for Space would be: Your general thought process on D3 was prior to Eevee's alignment being known - has that flip changed anything for you?

I think we could say that Eevee's flip didn't do anything to divert me away from my slight ADK tunnel. Mainly, the vca stuff is independent of Eevee, because Eevee wasn't present on the Glooble wagon around the points that faust and I have been picking out.

However, I did find it interesting that your review of ADK said "ADK had almost no interactions with Eevee whatsoever", whereas I'd found their early interactions noteworthy enough to comment on them at #198, which you then commented on yourself when you got to the point of re-reading me. I think the interaction may contribute very slightly to a scum!ADK case, because I think Eevee would be careful to stage some interaction with his scumbuddies, since iirc he's generally quite nervous and self-conscious as scum.

PPE lots: I'm catching up after a long workday!
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: SpaceAnemone on October 19, 2020, 01:26:39 pm
Here's a word count of everyone in the game so far:
Random question, is your word counting algorithm sophisticated enough to cut out quoted bits?

Yes, it's based on the same script that counts votes, so I already had to kill all quotes before analysis. It's a bit flakey about special characters that get rendered with html ampersand codes, but robust to most other html.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: SpaceAnemone on October 19, 2020, 01:34:07 pm
As for trying to avoid the NK...yes. I did/do not want to be killed. In that game, it was frustrating to be killed early on in the only game going at the time, and then to discover itís because I was playing in a particular way led me to consider how I might improve.

PPE: yes, ADK. Thank you.
Well, it's just... if scum kills you N1, then that means you played a good game. Surviving until now means you played worse (or, you know, are scum). So you didn't improve, you got worse.

In that game I was the doctor. It was devastating.

While I recognise that you're not openly saying you're not a doctor in this game, it might be worth noting that it's almost certainly not in town's interests to be talking about who is and isn't a doctor here, in case scum gets better PoE than they already have.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: SpaceAnemone on October 19, 2020, 01:35:28 pm
@Galz, you commented in your long post about faust still being alive at this point in the game. You didn't say anything about Robz-the-IC being alive, though. Isn't that equally noteworthy?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 19, 2020, 01:52:02 pm
As for trying to avoid the NK...yes. I did/do not want to be killed. In that game, it was frustrating to be killed early on in the only game going at the time, and then to discover itís because I was playing in a particular way led me to consider how I might improve.

PPE: yes, ADK. Thank you.
Well, it's just... if scum kills you N1, then that means you played a good game. Surviving until now means you played worse (or, you know, are scum). So you didn't improve, you got worse.

In that game I was the doctor. It was devastating.

While I recognise that you're not openly saying you're not a doctor in this game, it might be worth noting that it's almost certainly not in town's interests to be talking about who is and isn't a doctor here, in case scum gets better PoE than they already have.

Good gravy, yes.  I was really just talking about why I was motivated to change. 
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: Robz888 on October 19, 2020, 01:53:44 pm
Vote: ADK

This is L-1 by the way

PPE: I have some stuff I would like to say if you don't mind

Did you say the stuff?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on October 19, 2020, 03:25:35 pm
Vote: ADK

This is L-1 by the way

PPE: I have some stuff I would like to say if you don't mind

Did you say the stuff?

I could keep talking when I'm not on my phone but I think my main thing is I think Galz and didds are town. If you decide to exile my and think my opinion is worth considering going forward then that's the big thing
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 19, 2020, 03:57:39 pm
If we're (Galz and I) are town, and Robz is town, and you are, too...that leaves Space, faust, and chairs.

So, you're preferred exile today is chairs?

Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on October 19, 2020, 07:02:27 pm
If we're (Galz and I) are town, and Robz is town, and you are, too...that leaves Space, faust, and chairs.

So, you're preferred exile today is chairs?

You are correct
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: Swowl on October 19, 2020, 08:50:50 pm
Vote Count 4.2:

ADK (2): Space, Robz

Not Voting (5): WCD, Galz, faust, ADK, chairs

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.
Day 4 ends on October 22nd at 7:45PM Forum Time.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: faust on October 20, 2020, 10:15:08 am
I think we have waited for Glaz long enough now.

Vote: ADK
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: chairs on October 20, 2020, 10:27:39 am
If we aren't going to go anywhere with this Day except for twiddle, might as well.

Vote: ADK
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on October 20, 2020, 10:49:13 am
I'm not surprised but I am disappointed. I stand by my current reads, but what do I know
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 20, 2020, 10:57:27 am
Okay, ADK...so, chairs and who?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: chairs on October 20, 2020, 12:11:51 pm
Okay, so it's ADK and Didds. Got it.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: SpaceAnemone on October 20, 2020, 12:28:47 pm
Okay, so it's ADK and Didds. Got it.

Well, we'll know soon enough if we were right on ADK. If they don't flip scum for some reason, then Didds is right that your vote looks kind of suspicious. OTOH, Didds is also a top candidate for being scum.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on October 20, 2020, 01:18:32 pm
Okay, ADK...so, chairs and who?

faust, maybe
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: Swowl on October 20, 2020, 01:25:39 pm
Enjoy Twilight for 2-3 hours.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: A Drowned Kernel on October 20, 2020, 01:39:02 pm
Enjoy Twilight for 2-3 hours.

I don't know if I can read that book for that long, let alone enjoy it
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 20, 2020, 02:01:20 pm
Enjoy Twilight for 2-3 hours.

I don't know if I can read that book for that long, let alone enjoy it

What, you donít like the idea of a vampire who watches you while youíre sleeping and lives only for you but also has to go hunt rabbits and stuff?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 20, 2020, 02:02:20 pm
Hey! Want to play drunk mafia on Friday evening??
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: Galzria on October 20, 2020, 02:39:00 pm
Some of the snapshots I was looking at:

Post #285

ADK (1): Glooble
Glooble (3): ADK, Space, Chairs
EFHW (2): Joseph, MiX
Galzria (1): WCD
Joseph (5): Galzria, faust, Robz, Dylan, Eevee
MiX (1): EFHW


If faust is scum, Eevee put the second scum vote on a wagon of 5 on Joseph. If two of {ADK, Space, Chairs} are scum, then there were two scum votes on a wagon of 3 (which was it's peak up to that point). If WCD is scum, and faust is town, then scum were spread evenly. If ADK is town, there were 6 wagons town wagons to choose from (if he's scum, there were 5 wagons to choose from). If ADK is scum, it makes it microscopically more likely that WCD is town, as fully spreading their votes with a potential scum wagon isn't quite as good.

What's more interesting is that the next three votes that follow are in posts #305 (Robz votes WCD), #307 (EFHW votes WCD), and #308 (Chairs votes WCD). The vote (and reasoning) from Chairs is basically follow-the-IC. If WCD is town, this looks much worse for Chairs. It's possible two town players snap followed Robz to WCD, but it's slightly more likely that one town and one scum did.


Post #339
Glooble (2): ADK, Space
EFHW (1): Joseph
Galzria (1): WCD
Joseph (6): Galzria, Dylan, Eevee, Glooble, MiX, Chairs
WCD (1): Robz
Chairs (1): faust


This is the first time Joseph's wagon hit 6, with Chairs casting the L-1 vote. faust had just moved to Chairs two votes prior in post #324, and while one vote does not a wagon make, could chairs have been worried there might be more movement to follow? Dunno. Maybe Chairs didn't even notice. If Chairs/WCD are scum though, I could see where scum wants to deter either of their wagons from forming up or gaining steam. Note Chairs moved from MiX, which was a solitary vote at the time.


This is a snapshot progression of the last major movement D1:

Post #385:

Glooble (4): ADK, Space, faust, Robz
EFHW (3): Joseph, WCD, MiX
Joseph (5): Galzria, Dylan, Eevee, Glooble, Chairs
ADK (1): EFHW


From here, where we had three entrenched town wagons, Chairs moved off of the leading wagon (with scum!Eevee on it), and onto ADK in post #404. Space moved from Glooble to Joseph in #423. Prior to the move Glooble and Joseph were both at 4 votes. Not really much reason for Space to do this as scum. They're separated from Eevee already, and it's all town wagons as far as the eye can see. At worst (or best, depending on your view), things go to a no-exile. There's no pressure or meta for Space to make this move either, so in all, pretty neutral at worst, townie at best. Robz moves off of Glooble in #425, and EFHW hammers Joseph in #427, moving off of ADK. This makes the final VC look like:

Post #427:

Glooble (2): ADK, faust
EFHW (3): Joseph, WCD, MiX
Joseph (7): Galzria, Dylan, Eevee, Glooble, Space, Robz, EFHW
ADK (1): Chairs


If Space is town, then the only scum on the Joseph wagon is Eevee. That's not entirely impossible, and in fact is where I lean. For my money, I think there's one scum in {Chairs, WCD}, and one in {ADK, faust}. I don't think scum!ADK and scum!faust were both hanging around over on Glooble. The Chairs move is once again not a good look.

For D2, at the point WCD voted Eevee, the wagons looked like this:

Post #514:
Chairs (3): ADK, Glooble, Eevee
Glooble (3): Chairs, faust, Robz
Eevee (2): EFHW, WCD

Not voting: Dylan, Space, Galz


WCD was coming from a solo vote on EFHW, and at the time it took 6 to exile. This is a tricky situation if WCD and Chairs are scum together. On the one hand, she could come in and start to run up the Glooble wagon. This probably looks bad for her down the line though. On the other, voting Eevee creates multiple wagons (even if two are on scum), and allows for more open discussion all around - Although I think WCD would just continue to push her EFHW case instead. On the flip side, if Chairs is town, this is a pretty safe place to vote for Eevee for WCD. There are two wagons with more votes than Eevee, Glooble is a very viable and leading candidate from the previous day, and given all of the town wagons that were going around D1, it's incredibly unlikely the Eevee wagon goes anywhere here. As noted in my ISO, WCD doesn't exactly push Eevee super hard throughout D2 - the vote is just kinda sitting there. In addition, if Chairs is town here, and one of {ADK, faust} is scum, as I believe, this allows scum!WCD to not stack any wagons.

And this kinda brings me to the EoD hammer on Glooble by Space:

Post #645:

Chairs (2): WCD, Glooble
Glooble (6): faust, Robz, ADK, Chairs, Eevee, Space
Eevee (1): EFHW

Not Voting: Galzria, Dylan


Nothing, in all of the votes cast, and wagons prior, gives me ANY sense that scum were interested in stacking a wagon. I cannot find a single instance where I believe scum to have 3 votes on a wagon (or where, based on who is still alive), it's even likely/possible. Even with scum having daychat - I just do not honestly believe that they all piled onto Glooble here. I do not believe that Space, as scum, hammers here on a wagon that has both of their scum buddies on it. So if Space is scum, so is WCD. And while {faust, ADK} were already on the wagon when Chairs moved his vote there - which could be argued was a self preservation vote, if two of {faust, ADK, chairs} are scum, I don't believe that Eevee feels the need to get involved in this wagon right after Chairs. Either Chairs is town, and Eevee was already in a good spot on his wagon, or Chairs is scum, and Eevee's moving not only stacks the Glooble wagon, but also could implicate Chairs in the process by distancing from a partner.

Day 3 VCA isn't really worth looking at, and here we are on Day 4.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My overall conclusions, kept short here because I just updated the page and noticed ADK has been hammered, based on a combination of VCA and the ISO's that I did are as follows:

I'm 75% certain that WCD is scum. Her ISO was easily the scummiest of any living player, and where her votes sit in VCA analysis fits almost every ideal scum voting spread. Add in the fact that I simply do not believe that all scum were on the Glooble wagon EoD2, and this is hands down my highest scum read.

I'm also like, 90% certain Chairs is town. This would drop to 75% if WCD were also town, but I don't think that is the case. The primary thing here, is that despite his opportunistic voting and how he's generally approached play/his reads - the ISO on Eevee all but clears him. There is just no way Eevee endorses pursuing people that voted Joseph after Dylan did, when that subset contains {Eevee, Town!MiX, Glooble, Chairs} - especially as Eevee casually goes on to town read Glooble. That just isn't partner play. Add in that this suggestion was formulated by ADK (who could be scum), and it's pretty clear that Chairs isn't scum. Cherry on top, WCD's post #549, where she puts Eevee & Chairs as two of her three most scummy players - like I said in the WCD ISO, Scum!WCD's nightmare is to run solo. She doesn't double-bus, and she doesn't put both her partners in the bottom like that.

That leaves me feeling the following:

Scum: WCD
One Scum in: {faust, ADK}
Probably Town: Space
Town: Chairs

Between faust & ADK, I lean ADK - I'm not unhappy with his exile, although I would've preferred WCD.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: Galzria on October 20, 2020, 02:46:43 pm
@Galz, you commented in your long post about faust still being alive at this point in the game. You didn't say anything about Robz-the-IC being alive, though. Isn't that equally noteworthy?

The faust point was in jest, not really a point. The Robz-being-alive thing isn't something that should be speculated on. Yes, it's noteworthy. That's about all that should be said.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: Galzria on October 20, 2020, 02:51:26 pm
I think we have waited for Glaz long enough now.

Vote: ADK

This was fair, but still rushed. There wasn't much reason for this with 2 days left to deadline.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: faust on October 20, 2020, 03:30:44 pm
I think we have waited for Glaz long enough now.

Vote: ADK

This was fair, but still rushed. There wasn't much reason for this with 2 days left to deadline.
I suppose not... but stalling is never good for a game, it gets people disinterested and that leads to less contribution in the future.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: chairs on October 20, 2020, 03:40:58 pm
I'm so done with this game can we just vote out the scum and win already
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: chairs on October 20, 2020, 03:43:09 pm
I'm legit struggling to even remember who's alive right now...

Space, Didds, faust, me, Robz, Galz

Scum to chum:
Didds
Galz
faust
Space

Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: chairs on October 20, 2020, 03:43:31 pm
(Excluded ADK since they're exiled already)
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: Robz888 on October 20, 2020, 03:57:57 pm
I am fine with this exile and glad it wasn't dragged out any longer.

My suspicions at this point are basically Didds or chairs.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: Swowl on October 20, 2020, 04:36:26 pm
ADK has been lynched!
They were the Town Aligned Adorable Mutt.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: Swowl on October 20, 2020, 04:36:33 pm
Vote Count 4.Final:

ADK (4): Space, Robz, faust, chairs[/s]
Not Voting (3): WCD, Galz, ADK

With 7 alive, it took 4 to lynch.
Night 4 starts now and ends October 22nd at 3:35pm Forum Time.
Please submit night actions within 36 hours.

THREAD LOCKED!
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Swowl on October 22, 2020, 07:40:50 pm
Vote Count 5.0:

Not Voting (6): WCD, Galz, Space, chairs, faust, Robz,

With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.
Day 5 starts now and ends October 29th at 7:40pm Forum Time.


THREAD UNLOCKED!
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
Post by: chairs on October 22, 2020, 08:30:37 pm
 8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Galzria on October 22, 2020, 10:49:54 pm
8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Robz888 on October 22, 2020, 10:52:23 pm
So.... Doctor?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 22, 2020, 11:02:44 pm
Finally some good doctoring!
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Galzria on October 23, 2020, 12:41:53 am
So.... Doctor?

Not necessarily.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
Post by: faust on October 23, 2020, 12:48:06 am
So.... Doctor?
Well, maybe. There are explanations that don't require a Doctor though.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
Post by: faust on October 23, 2020, 12:48:26 am
Oh yeah, somehow didn't see that PPE.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
Post by: faust on October 23, 2020, 01:59:03 am
Are we massclaiming?

I'm like 70% sure that it would be good.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
Post by: SpaceAnemone on October 23, 2020, 06:14:05 am
I dunno about claiming when scum know exactly what roles are out there and we don't. I've been suspicious from early on that leaving Robz alive could be a scum plot to make us think we have a doctor that a scum can then use as a fake-claim later on to try to IC one of their number. Though actually I'd have been most suspicious of that if EFHW hadn't already flipped town, because I thought something she'd said earlier really contributed nicely to setting that possibility up... I'd have to dig back through her posts to remind myself exactly what it was, though.

Anyway, Chairs's behaviour coming into today makes it look like he's likely to claim credit for the lack of NK, though without him using actual words, I guess it's not a safe assumption to make.

If we are going to decide to mass-claim, then I absolutely think our actual living mod-confirmed IC should be the one to be pushing for it, rather than anyone else.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 23, 2020, 06:40:59 am
Good point. Robz, what say you?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
Post by: faust on October 23, 2020, 07:48:14 am
I dunno about claiming when scum know exactly what roles are out there and we don't. I've been suspicious from early on that leaving Robz alive could be a scum plot to make us think we have a doctor that a scum can then use as a fake-claim later on to try to IC one of their number. Though actually I'd have been most suspicious of that if EFHW hadn't already flipped town, because I thought something she'd said earlier really contributed nicely to setting that possibility up... I'd have to dig back through her posts to remind myself exactly what it was, though.
For someone who isn't sure about claiming you do seem quite eager to claim not-Doctor.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
Post by: faust on October 23, 2020, 07:53:36 am
If we are going to decide to mass-claim, then I absolutely think our actual living mod-confirmed IC should be the one to be pushing for it, rather than anyone else.
Ha. So what, we're all supposed to sit back and twiddle our thumbs while Robz solves the game?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 23, 2020, 08:30:14 am
Iíve been thinking about the mass claim hike Iíve been getting up and around. I see lots of upsides.  Faust, what are the 30% negatives?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
Post by: SpaceAnemone on October 23, 2020, 08:34:34 am
Ha. So what, we're all supposed to sit back and twiddle our thumbs while Robz solves the game?

You make it sound like the only two options are thumb-twiddling or Robz-following, and that's not it at all. Any of us has better PoE than Robz, because we can trust our own alignment as well as his, so any of us have a better chance of making useful cases and observations than Robz does.

However I will be deeply suspicious of anyone trying to force town into playing things their way unless they're an IC, because right now I'm going to have to read anyone who isn't Robz through several paranoid layers of "what if this person has an ulterior motive?". It benefitted scum to rush things at the EoD4, especially since Galz was still apparently working on cases when the hammer came, and I don't want to see town rushed into anything quickly now.

(And yes, I recognise that I was one of the ones driving the earlier part of the ADK wagon, and that I'm equally to blame for that mixile, but we should have left more time to discuss what Galz was contributing, and at least had warning intent from Chairs. Instead we had a sudden rushed super-early mixile that was either caused by scum pushing a sense of urgency on us, or town getting bored and not thinking, or a bit of both.. but I'm suspicious of the possibility that scum is being manipulative here).

PPE 1
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: SpaceAnemone on October 23, 2020, 08:37:38 am
Here's the post by EFHW early in D2 that I remembered:

I'm thinking the choice of MiX over Robz means we have a doctor.

Also, I had inadvertently implied I may not be the doctor earlier in the game already, so faust's indignant tone about it now seems a bit unnecessary:

MiX is a weird kill to me. In my last scum game, my team tried to use the amount of attention and distraction he generates to our advantage. Obviously this scum team did not see similar value here.

Yeah, we left MiX alive and misfiring to great effect there, but the fact remains he's a high-volume poster, so if the scumteam thought he was too townie, they may have wanted him out of the way in the hope of stalling the game more or something. I also agree with EFHW that you being alive points to the possibility of a doctor, unless it's some kind of scum gambit, but I'm not sure what advantage they'd think they're getting if leaving you deliberately alive as IC and risking a kill that could have been on a VT seemed worthwhile.

Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 23, 2020, 09:22:21 am
Okay, I thought about it some more and I think this is the right call. We have to get it right today or we lose, yeah?

Perhaps more importantly, scum already know that I am the doc because I was blocked N3 when I doctored EFHW (itís been Rob all the other nights). So, we should have as much information as they do and it should improve our VCA (although I havenít been on any of the mixiles so not as helpful as it could be.)

Reread and itís obvious, especially since I pretty much as much in the conversation with faust about why I was trying to avoid being nightkilled.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Robz888 on October 23, 2020, 10:24:33 am
Okay, I thought about it some more and I think this is the right call. We have to get it right today or we lose, yeah?

Perhaps more importantly, scum already know that I am the doc because I was blocked N3 when I doctored EFHW (itís been Rob all the other nights). So, we should have as much information as they do and it should improve our VCA (although I havenít been on any of the mixiles so not as helpful as it could be.)

Reread and itís obvious, especially since I pretty much as much in the conversation with faust about why I was trying to avoid being nightkilled.

Okay cool, I was going to ask Didds to claim first, anyway. (I'm on such a role! That was sarcasm.)

I think now I just want everyone to swiftly just acknowledge the claim, or counterclaim if you ARE the Doctor.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
Post by: faust on October 23, 2020, 10:37:11 am
I'm not a Doctor.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
Post by: faust on October 23, 2020, 10:40:39 am
scum already know that I am the doc because I was blocked N3 when I doctored EFHW
There are several things wrong in this one. First of all, there can be ways for scum to kill the Doctor's target without blocking them. Second... uh, the Mafia player who would have been the Roleblocker is Eevee, who was already dead at the time.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
Post by: chairs on October 23, 2020, 10:43:27 am
Hey now! I'm the doc!

I doctored Robz last night.

N1 faust, N2 Eevee (oops), N3 efhw (I guess they have a way to anti doctor :( )
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
Post by: chairs on October 23, 2020, 10:44:31 am
Faust is right that they lost their Roleblocker so they must have strongman or something? I need to go look at setup
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Robz888 on October 23, 2020, 10:47:06 am
Strongman or Rolestopper could have done it.

Well, I presume we aren't going to hav a third Doctor claim, so it's chairs or didds!
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
Post by: faust on October 23, 2020, 10:48:39 am
Uuhhh counterclaims!

It is technically possible (and would be absolutely hilarious) that both Didds and chairs are lying... but really, that is not the kind of play I would expect from a Didds/chairs team.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Robz888 on October 23, 2020, 10:50:33 am
I will say that this:

I doctored Robz last night.

N1 faust, N2 Eevee (oops), N3 efhw (I guess they have a way to anti doctor :( )

Is a doctoring plan that better matches how I think an actual town Doctor would have played it, than this:

Perhaps more importantly, scum already know that I am the doc because I was blocked N3 when I doctored EFHW (itís been Rob all the other nights).
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
Post by: faust on October 23, 2020, 10:50:47 am
Is there any value to exiling outside of Didds/chairs? It would force scum to leave our Doctor alive if we get it right. And from my perspective the chances of getting it right are about the same.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
Post by: faust on October 23, 2020, 10:52:56 am
Either way with these claims it is guaranteed that we have another PR. If we want to exile a non-Doctor, we should probably continue claiming... otherwise, not so much.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
Post by: faust on October 23, 2020, 10:55:56 am
I will say that this:

I doctored Robz last night.

N1 faust, N2 Eevee (oops), N3 efhw (I guess they have a way to anti doctor :( )

Is a doctoring plan that better matches how I think an actual town Doctor would have played it, than this:

Perhaps more importantly, scum already know that I am the doc because I was blocked N3 when I doctored EFHW (itís been Rob all the other nights).
I think both match how Didds/chairs would probably have played as town Doctors.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Galzria on October 23, 2020, 11:01:49 am
vote: WCD
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 23, 2020, 11:03:50 am
I will say that this:

I doctored Robz last night.

N1 faust, N2 Eevee (oops), N3 efhw (I guess they have a way to anti doctor :( )

Is a doctoring plan that better matches how I think an actual town Doctor would have played it, than this:

Perhaps more importantly, scum already know that I am the doc because I was blocked N3 when I doctored EFHW (itís been Rob all the other nights).

Ha!  I am brand new to this role. I have been a doc only twice before, both times killed right off the bat.

So, if you are thinking "well, that is not so smart" then you'd be right.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
Post by: chairs on October 23, 2020, 11:06:02 am
I think there's no point in anybody else claiming.

Obviously we have to exile Didds (or for non me Town, "or chairs").

Vote: Didds
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 23, 2020, 11:13:31 am
vote: WCD

Come on, Galzy. Read back as if I am the doc and you'll see that I am.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 2 Has Begun!
Post by: faust on October 23, 2020, 11:15:45 am
Also, I had inadvertently implied I may not be the doctor earlier in the game already, so faust's indignant tone about it now seems a bit unnecessary:

MiX is a weird kill to me. In my last scum game, my team tried to use the amount of attention and distraction he generates to our advantage. Obviously this scum team did not see similar value here.

Yeah, we left MiX alive and misfiring to great effect there, but the fact remains he's a high-volume poster, so if the scumteam thought he was too townie, they may have wanted him out of the way in the hope of stalling the game more or something. I also agree with EFHW that you being alive points to the possibility of a doctor, unless it's some kind of scum gambit, but I'm not sure what advantage they'd think they're getting if leaving you deliberately alive as IC and risking a kill that could have been on a VT seemed worthwhile.
Well, I don't remember all of your posts by heart. And I for one make those kinds of posts all the time when I'm actually the role that's being talked about.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
Post by: faust on October 23, 2020, 11:17:21 am
vote: WCD

Come on, Galzy. Read back as if I am the doc and you'll see that I am.
It would be more helpful if you could provide the evidence yourself rather than asking someone who can only dedicate a limited amount of time to this game to do a full reread.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Galzria on October 23, 2020, 11:21:46 am
vote: WCD

Come on, Galzy. Read back as if I am the doc and you'll see that I am.
It would be more helpful if you could provide the evidence yourself rather than asking someone who can only dedicate a limited amount of time to this game to do a full reread.

Iíve also done a full re-read, and my thoughts on each of Didds & chairs was made clear at the end of yesterday. In a straight up counter claim between the two, Iím going to side with the person that I honestly think is more likely to be town - and thatís chairs by a wide margin.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Robz888 on October 23, 2020, 11:27:45 am
Exiling outside the claimed doctors is an interesting idea, but if they have the rolestopper, they could probably use it to make me die tonight anyway.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Robz888 on October 23, 2020, 11:31:26 am
Probably we should just exile didds.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Galzria on October 23, 2020, 11:40:29 am
vote: WCD

Come on, Galzy. Read back as if I am the doc and you'll see that I am.
It would be more helpful if you could provide the evidence yourself rather than asking someone who can only dedicate a limited amount of time to this game to do a full reread.

Iíve also done a full re-read, and my thoughts on each of Didds & chairs was made clear at the end of yesterday. In a straight up counter claim between the two, Iím going to side with the person that I honestly think is more likely to be town - and thatís chairs by a wide margin.

I will re-ISO Didds and Chairs today, in the context of each of them being a Doctor. I'm not going to do a full write up on it, but I will at least re-read each before voting.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 23, 2020, 11:59:14 am
Probably we should just exile didds.

Then you would have been in on every single Mixile!
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 23, 2020, 12:01:12 pm
vote: WCD

Come on, Galzy. Read back as if I am the doc and you'll see that I am.
It would be more helpful if you could provide the evidence yourself rather than asking someone who can only dedicate a limited amount of time to this game to do a full reread.

Working and multitasking right now...I need some time
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 23, 2020, 12:09:03 pm
Although one thing that occurs to me at the outset is that chairs *absolutely* started laying the groundwork for this yesterday.  The day ended when he hammered ADK, and then he immediately turned around and said that ADK and I were scum.  Then the nightkill decision to leave me alive was easy knowing this would happen.

This works even better if the scum team is chairs and Galzy since he started building that narrative yesterday.



Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 23, 2020, 12:51:35 pm
scum already know that I am the doc because I was blocked N3 when I doctored EFHW
There are several things wrong in this one. First of all, there can be ways for scum to kill the Doctor's target without blocking them. Second... uh, the Mafia player who would have been the Roleblocker is Eevee, who was already dead at the time.

faust, can you help me understand this? how did she die without me being blocked or stopped?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
Post by: chairs on October 23, 2020, 01:24:17 pm
Okay if I'm reading setup correctly then scum could have a one shot strongman or a two shot rolestopper, that could both have caused the N3 confusion that we need to figure out (regardless of whether you believe me or Didds, it would be beneficial for us to figure this one out I think). Do we have a tracker of 1-shot bp?
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
Post by: chairs on October 23, 2020, 01:24:31 pm
Don't claim yet if you are
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
Post by: chairs on October 23, 2020, 01:25:29 pm
That is to say, I want us to discuss whether one or both of those roles should claim if they're present before we go off half cocked and give scum anything more to work with
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Swowl on October 23, 2020, 02:53:05 pm
Vote Count 5.1:

WCD (1): chairs
Not Voting (5): WCD, Galz, Space, faust, Robz,

With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.
Day 5 starts now and ends October 29th at 7:40pm Forum Time.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
Post by: SpaceAnemone on October 23, 2020, 03:14:59 pm
Either way with these claims it is guaranteed that we have another PR. If we want to exile a non-Doctor, we should probably continue claiming... otherwise, not so much.

If they're both lying scum and there are no other PRs, doesn't it all flow fine?

Also, I'm claiming non-doctor explicitly now :-)
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Robz888 on October 23, 2020, 03:18:15 pm
I'm skeptical that we need any additional claims.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 5
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 23, 2020, 03:30:01 pm
Alright.... 

I am not quite sure what I can say that clears me. As faust noted, it would be ENTIRELY like me to continue to Doc the IC, except when I thought EFHW was more valuable.

ISO chairs reveals that chairs is being way nicer to me than usual. Which I enjoy, but is also always a good technique where I am concerned but also scummy. He is literally being nicer to me than he has ever been, including chiming in when ADK was explaining to faust how they read my statement about trying not to get killed.  He also didn't ridicule my doctoring targets, which is where chairs would normally be. He is trying to Didds a Didds!

Think about this from a scum chairs/glaz perspective.  Scum wins if they can get me exiled. I haven't done anything scummy and none of my votes have been scummy. Galz (who I havent found terribly scummy until I started reading more closely) creates several narratives where he puts chairs and I together, and then looks at us as a team or town!chairs scum!WCD, but never the inverse. Chairs knows I am town, but all he needs to do is make me look guilty enough that Robz goes for it.  Robz has been off all game.  Literally none of his reads have been scum at all so this won't be a tough sale. Galz buries us in a wall of words that hide the one-way nature of his analysis and chairs insists that ADK and I are scum until ADK flips scum.  They literally only have to get him or one person to believe them. It's so smart....and 100% smarter than I would be able to pull off.  One of chairs or I is getting exiled today....do any of you really think that I have that kind of play in me.  That I would put myself on the block like that? Here's the thing...Robs and I have played together very little and he usually finds me scummy for the kind of fluffiness that some of ya'll have become more familiar with.  So their pitch is really just to him., and he's already said that he thinks its me so they just need to lean into that. Chairs fishing for other roles makes him look town helpful like he doesn't know the game will end when I get exiled. They know him better, they know the kinds of arguments that appeal to him, and they know that he will find my general playstyle fishy.

I'll do Galzy's big posts next.
Title: Re: M132: Cats and Dogs Mafia - Day 4
Post by: WestCoastDidds on October 23, 2020, 03:30:16 pm
So, I am going back and rereading and holy cow, knowing what we know now about adk, and me/chairs, this is SUPER scummy. Its definitely trying to create a narrative where chairs is vindicated before he was ever on the block.


Some of the snapshots I was looking at:

* I'm adding green to ADK
Post #285

ADK (1): Glooble
Glooble (3): ADK, Space, Chairs
EFHW (2): Joseph, MiX
Galzria (1): WCD
Joseph (5): Galzria, faust, Robz, Dylan, Eevee
MiX (1): EFHW


If faust is scum, Eevee put the second scum vote on a wagon of 5 on Joseph. If two of {ADK, Space, Chairs} are scum, then there were two scum votes on a wagon of 3 (which was it's peak up to that point). If WCD is scum, and faust is town, then scum were spread evenly. If ADK is town, there were 6 wagons town wagons to choose from (if he's scum, there were 5 wagons to choose from). If ADK is scum, it makes it microscopically more likely that WCD is town, as fully spreading their votes with a potential scum wagon isn't quite as good.

What's more interesting is that the next three votes that follow are in posts #305 (Robz votes WCD), #307 (EFHW votes WCD), and #308 (Chairs votes WCD). The vote (and reasoning) from Chairs is basically follow-the-IC. If WCD is town, this looks much worse for Chairs. It's possible two town players snap followed Robz to WCD, but it's slightly more likely that one town and one scum did.

*That last sentence is authentic.  Two town, one scum. Chairs.


Post #339
Glooble (2): ADK, Space
EFHW (1): Joseph
Galzria (1): WCD
Joseph (6): Galzria, Dylan, Eevee, Glooble, MiX, Chairs
WCD (1): Robz
Chairs (1): faust


This is the first time Joseph's wagon hit 6, with Chairs casting the L-1 vote. faust had just moved to Chairs two votes prior in post #324, and while one vote does not a wagon make, could chairs have been worried there might be more movement to follow? Dunno. Maybe Chairs didn't even notice. If Chairs/WCD are scum though, I could see where scum wants to deter either of their wagons from forming up or gaining steam. Note Chairs moved from MiX, which was a solitary vote at the time.

* You know we aren't in this together now, but notably this is one of the only times that you entrain the idea that chairs is scum instead of me.

This is a snapshot progression of the last major movement D1:

Post #385:

Glooble (4): ADK, Space, faust, Robz
EFHW (3): Joseph, WCD, MiX
Joseph (5): Galzria, Dylan, Eevee, Glooble, Chairs
ADK (1): EFHW


From here, where we had three entrenched town wagons, Chairs moved off of the leading wagon (with scum!Eevee on it), and onto ADK in post #404. Space moved from Glooble to Joseph in #423. Prior to the move Glooble and Joseph were both at 4 votes. Not really much reason for Space to do this as scum. They're separated from Eevee already, and it's all town wagons as far as the eye can see. At worst (or best, depending on your view), things go to a no-exile. There's no pressure or meta for Space to make this move either, so in all, pretty neutral at worst, townie at best. Robz moves off of Glooble in #425, and EFHW hammers Joseph in #427, moving off of ADK. This makes the final VC look like:

Post #427:

Glooble (2): ADK, faust
EFHW (3): Joseph, WCD, MiX
Joseph (7): Galzria, Dylan, Eevee, Glooble, Space, Robz, EFHW
ADK (1): Chairs


If Space is town, then the only scum on the Joseph wagon is Eevee. That's not entirely impossible, and in fact is where I lean. For my money, I think there's one scum in {Chairs, WCD}, and one in {ADK, faust}. I don't think scum!ADK and scum!faust were both hanging around over on Glooble. The Chairs move is once again not a good look.

*We know that there is in fact one scum in Chairs/WCD

For D2, at the point WCD voted Eevee, the wagons looked like this:

Post #514:
Chairs (3): ADK, Glooble, Eevee
Glooble (3): Chairs, faust, Robz
Eevee (2): EFHW, WCD

Not voting: Dylan, Space, Galz


WCD was coming from a solo vote on EFHW, and at the time it took 6 to exile. This is a tricky situation if WCD and Chairs are scum together. On the one