Dominion Strategy Forum

Dominion => Dominion FAQ => Topic started by: Poetje on August 26, 2020, 11:24:17 am

Title: Undo rules in rated games
Post by: Poetje on August 26, 2020, 11:24:17 am
If a player refuses an undo in a rated game while missclicking and don't revealing any information, what are my options?
Title: Re: Undo rules in rated games
Post by: LaLight on August 26, 2020, 11:30:11 am
If a player refuses an undo in a rated game while missclicking and don't revealing any information, what are my options?

I guess, just blacklist them. It is not against the rules to deny an undo.
Title: Re: Undo rules in rated games
Post by: mail-mi on August 26, 2020, 11:37:52 am
If a player refuses an undo in a rated game while missclicking and don't revealing any information, what are my options?

Venge-deny an undo for them, I suppose lol
Title: Re: Undo rules in rated games
Post by: Poetje on August 26, 2020, 11:56:52 am
If a player refuses an undo in a rated game while missclicking and don't revealing any information, what are my options?

Venge-deny an undo for them, I suppose lol

It was the last turn in the game, but then I hope I'll meet match him again and then refuse all of his undo's :P
Title: Re: Undo rules in rated games
Post by: GendoIkari on August 26, 2020, 12:22:16 pm
what are my options?

Don't misclick.  ;)

I've said this before, but I don't understand people's extreme aversion to opponents denying an undo. The very fact that the undo system exists is a nice-to-have extra that allows you to sometimes deal with misclicks. I think if the system were better-done, then undo would be automatic / not require approval if no information was revealed, and never allowed if information were revealed.

But that's not the system we have. Within the system we do have, if an opponent allows an undo, then good for them, they're playing extra-friendly. But it shouldn't be required/expected of anyone. First off, you don't know if they really put thought into whether or not new information was revealed. If someone has a personal policy to allow undos if no new information is revealed, while denying them if new information is revealed, then that requires extra care and thought into responding to each request. And even if you give that thought you could get it wrong. Heck, for all you know they misclicked the "allow" button just like you misclicked whatever button to start with!

So I really don't see someone denying all undos as a reason to consider blacklisting. I don't see it as rude or unsportsmanlike. It's just not going out of their way to be extra sportsmanlike.
Title: Re: Undo rules in rated games
Post by: Poetje on August 26, 2020, 05:09:05 pm
extreme aversion is a big word

When it's not obvious what information is revealed I get your point. In this case it was really obvious what mistake was made. I literally asked him.

If everyone would denie the undo;s, this will result in players playing more cautiously and games will last longer than needed.

Programming this in the system would be the best solution.

Title: Re: Undo rules in rated games
Post by: silverspawn on August 27, 2020, 04:36:54 am
If everyone would deny the undos, this will result in players playing more cautiously and games will last longer than needed.

^^+++
Title: Re: Undo rules in rated games
Post by: Jimmmmm on August 27, 2020, 06:06:27 am
If everyone would deny the undos, this will result in players playing more cautiously and games will last longer than needed.

^^+++

Yeah, I slow my play considerably if I know my opponent will deny reasonable undo requests.
Title: Re: Undo rules in rated games
Post by: Awaclus on August 27, 2020, 07:04:21 am
what are my options?

Don't misclick.  ;)

I've said this before, but I don't understand people's extreme aversion to opponents denying an undo. The very fact that the undo system exists is a nice-to-have extra that allows you to sometimes deal with misclicks. I think if the system were better-done, then undo would be automatic / not require approval if no information was revealed, and never allowed if information were revealed.

But that's not the system we have. Within the system we do have, if an opponent allows an undo, then good for them, they're playing extra-friendly. But it shouldn't be required/expected of anyone. First off, you don't know if they really put thought into whether or not new information was revealed. If someone has a personal policy to allow undos if no new information is revealed, while denying them if new information is revealed, then that requires extra care and thought into responding to each request. And even if you give that thought you could get it wrong. Heck, for all you know they misclicked the "allow" button just like you misclicked whatever button to start with!

So I really don't see someone denying all undos as a reason to consider blacklisting. I don't see it as rude or unsportsmanlike. It's just not going out of their way to be extra sportsmanlike.

Sure, the undo system is a nice-to-have extra that allows you to sometimes deal with misclicks. And the blacklist system is a nice-to-have extra that allows you to deal with people who don't let you use the undo system. I'd rather spend a longer time in queue than play a match where no-info undos get denied, and given that I have this preference and the client lets me achieve those settings in a roundabout way, much like it lets people deny reasonable undos ó if they're not required/expected to grant no-info undos, why would I be required/expected to play with these people?
Title: Re: Undo rules in rated games
Post by: faust on August 28, 2020, 05:47:07 am
I've said this before, but I don't understand people's extreme aversion to opponents denying an undo. The very fact that the undo system exists is a nice-to-have extra that allows you to sometimes deal with misclicks. I think if the system were better-done, then undo would be automatic / not require approval if no information was revealed, and never allowed if information were revealed.
I would not approve of that. There is a setting for auto-allowing some undos, and that's good. But sometimes I want to allow information-revealed undos, if my opponent believably assures me that e.g. they would have drawn anyway, but wanted to play the Village before the Smithy, or something.
Title: Re: Undo rules in rated games
Post by: Cuzz on August 29, 2020, 02:28:02 pm
I've said this before, but I don't understand people's extreme aversion to opponents denying an undo. The very fact that the undo system exists is a nice-to-have extra that allows you to sometimes deal with misclicks. I think if the system were better-done, then undo would be automatic / not require approval if no information was revealed, and never allowed if information were revealed.
I would not approve of that. There is a setting for auto-allowing some undos, and that's good. But sometimes I want to allow information-revealed undos, if my opponent believably assures me that e.g. they would have drawn anyway, but wanted to play the Village before the Smithy, or something.


I also think revealed info undos should be normalized for situations like ending a turn by clicking on the wrong card to buy. If the request comes in fast enough Iíll tend to give those.
Title: Re: Undo rules in rated games
Post by: ehunt on October 09, 2020, 12:10:36 am
I've said this before, but I don't understand people's extreme aversion to opponents denying an undo. The very fact that the undo system exists is a nice-to-have extra that allows you to sometimes deal with misclicks. I think if the system were better-done, then undo would be automatic / not require approval if no information was revealed, and never allowed if information were revealed.
I would not approve of that. There is a setting for auto-allowing some undos, and that's good. But sometimes I want to allow information-revealed undos, if my opponent believably assures me that e.g. they would have drawn anyway, but wanted to play the Village before the Smithy, or something.


I also think revealed info undos should be normalized for situations like ending a turn by clicking on the wrong card to buy. If the request comes in fast enough Iíll tend to give those.

I click the Way by accident all the time, which often gives trivial info i didn't want.