Dominion Strategy Forum
Dominion => Dominion General Discussion => Topic started by: ehunt on September 09, 2019, 11:54:22 pm
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so there's a mild thread for things that should be called combos but that intimidates people,
then there's a mildened version of that, which is the same thread except you're not allowed to make the argument ("that particular set of cards appears too rarely to be put in a thread.") So those are the two threads. And initially (as you can see if you are into thread archeaology) I was going to place Hunting Party + Patron in the mild but not extra-mild thread, since I mean that's just two cards, can't get more probable than that except if it's just one card, which really can't go in a thread about putting cards together.
BUT
this synergy is so good that it deserves to be called a combo, and now there is no combos thread so therefore one must start a thread just for this pair. If you see these two cards on the board together you should probably be dropping every other idea you had for the board and spamming it. You only need a couple of Patrons but you want lots of Hunting Parties. You'll be generating 8-12 coin tokens per turn in no time.
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since I mean that's just two cards, can't get more probable than that except if it's just one card
*starts long rant about all the things that are more probable than two cards together but less probable than a single card*
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now there is no combos thread so therefore one must start a thread just for this pair
Anything that's legitimately worthy of being called a combo deserves its own thread anyway.
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One of the better Hunting Party + X combos: http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Combo:_Hunting_Party%2BX
Combos haven't really been discussed for a while given the probability is so low that two cards will appear in the same game.
The last "combo" I remember being discussed as its own entity was Hermit/Market Square, and that was 5 sets ago with both cards from the same set.
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One of the better Hunting Party + X combos: http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Combo:_Hunting_Party%2BX
Combos haven't really been discussed for a while given the probability is so low that two cards will appear in the same game.
The last "combo" I remember being discussed as its own entity was Hermit/Market Square, and that was 5 sets ago with both cards from the same set.
There was also Lurker/Hunting Grounds. The main reason why we don't discuss "combos" is that most of them are immediately obvious when you take a look at what the cards say and not strong enough to be viable strategies.
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This isn't really a combo; there isn't much of anything that makes hunting party differ from eg menagerie or any other reveal card here, and hunting party makes it difficult to actually find all your patrons
combo threads are generally for things that completely change the game when present: hermit / market square, lurker / hunting grounds, etc
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This isn't really a combo; there isn't much of anything that makes hunting party differ from eg menagerie or any other reveal card here, and hunting party makes it difficult to actually find all your patrons
combo threads are generally for things that completely change the game when present: hermit / market square, lurker / hunting grounds, etc
(hunting party is much better than menagerie here because you reveal the patrons that you don't draw as well as the ones in your hand; point taken that the word "combo" is controversial)
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This isn't really a combo; there isn't much of anything that makes hunting party differ from eg menagerie or any other reveal card here, and hunting party makes it difficult to actually find all your patrons
combo threads are generally for things that completely change the game when present: hermit / market square, lurker / hunting grounds, etc
(hunting party is much better than menagerie here because you reveal the patrons that you don't draw as well as the ones in your hand; point taken that the word "combo" is controversial)
Yeah, this is the entire point. Maybe try it out before declaring it "not a combo?" In a Hunting Party strategy you're revealing your *whole deck* *many times* *every turn* (edgecasesedgecases). There is no comparison with Menagerie.
It could really use some +Buy, but it's uh, really good.
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This isn't really a combo; there isn't much of anything that makes hunting party differ from eg menagerie or any other reveal card here, and hunting party makes it difficult to actually find all your patrons
combo threads are generally for things that completely change the game when present: hermit / market square, lurker / hunting grounds, etc
(hunting party is much better than menagerie here because you reveal the patrons that you don't draw as well as the ones in your hand; point taken that the word "combo" is controversial)
Yeah, this is the entire point. Maybe try it out before declaring it "not a combo?" In a Hunting Party strategy you're revealing your *whole deck* *many times* *every turn* (edgecasesedgecases). There is no comparison with Menagerie.
In a typical Menagerie strategy (also known as an "engine"), you can easily be revealing your *whole deck* *many times* *every turn* and the +buy is a lot easier to fit in.
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This isn't really a combo; there isn't much of anything that makes hunting party differ from eg menagerie or any other reveal card here, and hunting party makes it difficult to actually find all your patrons
combo threads are generally for things that completely change the game when present: hermit / market square, lurker / hunting grounds, etc
(hunting party is much better than menagerie here because you reveal the patrons that you don't draw as well as the ones in your hand; point taken that the word "combo" is controversial)
Yeah, this is the entire point. Maybe try it out before declaring it "not a combo?" In a Hunting Party strategy you're revealing your *whole deck* *many times* *every turn* (edgecasesedgecases). There is no comparison with Menagerie.
In a typical Menagerie strategy (also known as an "engine"), you can easily be revealing your *whole deck* *many times* *every turn* and the +buy is a lot easier to fit in.
Hunting Party reveals all the Patrons in hand and all the ones in the deck whereas Menagerie only reveals the one in hand.
That's a significant difference.
While Patron does indeed give an incentive to buy far more Superbaker-Menageries than you would otherwise, you will have to play some copies of Mengagerie until they yield the same amount of Coffers as Hunting party. Not to mention that a "many Patron" strategy kind works against the variety of Menagerie, i.e. you can only use them as Superbakers and not as drawers.
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This isn't really a combo; there isn't much of anything that makes hunting party differ from eg menagerie or any other reveal card here, and hunting party makes it difficult to actually find all your patrons
combo threads are generally for things that completely change the game when present: hermit / market square, lurker / hunting grounds, etc
(hunting party is much better than menagerie here because you reveal the patrons that you don't draw as well as the ones in your hand; point taken that the word "combo" is controversial)
Yeah, this is the entire point. Maybe try it out before declaring it "not a combo?" In a Hunting Party strategy you're revealing your *whole deck* *many times* *every turn* (edgecasesedgecases). There is no comparison with Menagerie.
In a typical Menagerie strategy (also known as an "engine"), you can easily be revealing your *whole deck* *many times* *every turn* and the +buy is a lot easier to fit in.
Snark aside, I don’t really see this. We’re talking about a two card combo, and it was asserted that hunting party is no better than menagerie with patron. How do menagerie and patron constitute an engine that will reliably draw your deck? And why is the +buy “easier to fit in?”
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Snark aside, I don’t really see this. We’re talking about a two card combo, and it was asserted that hunting party is no better than menagerie with patron. How do menagerie and patron constitute an engine that will reliably draw your deck?
Well, I'll try hard to keep this thread in mind the next time I play Dominion with a 2-card kingdom and the cards happen to be Hunting Party and Patron. After all, there is no way I could possibly figure out on the spot that there's anything going on there.
And why is the +buy “easier to fit in?”
Because you're playing an engine, not a Hunting Party stack.
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Snark aside, I don’t really see this. We’re talking about a two card combo, and it was asserted that hunting party is no better than menagerie with patron. How do menagerie and patron constitute an engine that will reliably draw your deck?
Well, I'll try hard to keep this thread in mind the next time I play Dominion with a 2-card kingdom and the cards happen to be Hunting Party and Patron. After all, there is no way I could possibly figure out on the spot that there's anything going on there.
And why is the +buy “easier to fit in?”
Because you're playing an engine, not a Hunting Party stack.
All right, I did say "snark aside," but cool.
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This isn't really a combo; there isn't much of anything that makes hunting party differ from eg menagerie or any other reveal card here, and hunting party makes it difficult to actually find all your patrons
combo threads are generally for things that completely change the game when present: hermit / market square, lurker / hunting grounds, etc
(hunting party is much better than menagerie here because you reveal the patrons that you don't draw as well as the ones in your hand; point taken that the word "combo" is controversial)
Yeah, this is the entire point. Maybe try it out before declaring it "not a combo?" In a Hunting Party strategy you're revealing your *whole deck* *many times* *every turn* (edgecasesedgecases). There is no comparison with Menagerie.
In a typical Menagerie strategy (also known as an "engine"), you can easily be revealing your *whole deck* *many times* *every turn* and the +buy is a lot easier to fit in.
Snark aside, I don’t really see this. We’re talking about a two card combo, and it was asserted that hunting party is no better than menagerie with patron. How do menagerie and patron constitute an engine that will reliably draw your deck? And why is the +buy “easier to fit in?”
He wasn't saying a complete engine consists of just those two cards. He was saying an engine is a "typical Menagerie strategy", or a place where you would usually see Menagerie being used. In a draw your deck engine, any extra Menageries you have after drawing deck give you a coin token for each Patron you have - quite a lot! Comparable to Hunting Party in many respects.
Similar things can be said about cards like City Quarter, or other spammable reveal cards.
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A two-card combo typically wins on its own such as Counting House/Traveling Fair, Market Square/Donate or Mandarin/Capital. Patron/HP gets a crap ton of Coffers but without a crap ton of +Buy, you're not able to do much. So, I see it more as two cards to be aware of but not a true combo in the game breaking sense.
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Off-topic but isn't Menagerie/Patron actually a worse fit? If you want to keep activating your Menagerie draws you're incentivized to play all but 1 of your Patrons before playing Menagerie, so you'll get less reveal triggers. You're also incentivized to play extra Menageries early to get back down to a unique hand.
FWIW I have missed a lot of "obvious" interactions like this before because I'm too busy looking at other interactions.
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A two-card combo typically wins on its own such as Counting House/Traveling Fair, Market Square/Donate or Mandarin/Capital. Patron/HP gets a crap ton of Coffers but without a crap ton of +Buy, you're not able to do much. So, I see it more as two cards to be aware of but not a true combo in the game breaking sense.
Without a crapton of +Buy your opponent would not have a crapton of +Buy either so you can afford to green early, knowing you can buy a Province from your coffers after your occasional dud draws.
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A two-card combo typically wins on its own such as Counting House/Traveling Fair, Market Square/Donate or Mandarin/Capital. Patron/HP gets a crap ton of Coffers but without a crap ton of +Buy, you're not able to do much. So, I see it more as two cards to be aware of but not a true combo in the game breaking sense.
Without a crapton of +Buy your opponent would not have a crapton of +Buy either so you can afford to green early, knowing you can buy a Province from your coffers after your occasional dud draws.
Yeah, but this is a game where you've bought several Patrons and Hunting Party - say, four of each? So you'd be greening on like Turn 11. Not especially early for money.
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Having tried it out against Lord Rattington in a selection of random kingdoms, it's more like a patron and 5 hunting parties required to be drowning in coffers with no +buy. If you've copper and a silver in your deck, you get a minimum of 5 (copper, silver, patron) to spend a turn as well the coffers. Unless the board has strong attacks, I was beating the bot's big money strategy effortlessly (I beat what appeared to be envoy big money 6/2 )- and generally was ending up with 6 or 7 provinces at about turn 16.
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I tested Hunting Party + Patron out solo. Without support, I found that 1-2 Patrons and 4 Hunting Parties was optimal. If you get an unlucky $4/$4 distribution on turn 3/4, 3-4 Patrons with 3 Hunting Parties can also hit these benchmarks:
Turn 11-12: 4 Provinces, 27 VP
Turn 13-14: 6 Provinces, 39 VP
Turn 15-16: 8 Provinces, 51 VP
Decently fast to 4 Provinces, and very reliable to 8 Provinces. If there's decent trashing and +buy, you don't do the monolithic thing.