Here's a brief Backcountry overview:
Main themes: States are a wide open design space with lots of potential, look forward to seeing what else you've done. With using the tavern mat just mind interactions with the Reserve cards and Miser. With cost adjustment, go overboard and it'll be really hard for players to keep track of the changes all the time; with the other Supply alterations in this set there's a huge amount going on.
Subthemes: Mixed piles add randomness, suggesting that you want Backcountry to be a relaxed, low-skill set less about strategy and more about player interaction. Supply trashing understandably goes with this, but too much and the game can be over on 3 piles before players get satisfying decks together.
Causes I first thought would be further randomness with shuffling them in (with split piles you could always say put them in the middle), but then I remembered players can look through the piles at any time to see where they are. So it's public knowledge when they come up and what will happen - that can make for some neat strategizing! You could certainly do interesting things with Causes!
Prohibited: this looks like it wants to be another unique mechanic like the Causes and mixed piles. I don't really get the $4 cost Event; what are you buying? The rules could be kept in the 'rulebook' and the tokens in the box. To introduce the Prohibited State into a game you could use a unique type on the things that need the tokens, like Looter to Ruins. So one random pile each game powers these up - the replayability it adds is nice, the competition to win the split of the pile another thing if it's worth it.
Out of time to look at the specific cards and the cow mechanic, but the combination of Causes and Prohibited could make for a neat set. Mixed piles...I don't think will really work. That kind of randomness doesn't really suit Dominion.
Prohibited should not be a State. It's more similar to the Bane card.
Giving Stampede the "Attack" type does nothing as everything that reacts to Attack cards says "when another player plays an Attack card" and Stampede cannot be played. Note that Raid is not an Attack.
...
player interaction (especially non-attack player interaction) is definitely a highlight goal for me with these (esp. in the third set, "Syndicates", but that's future knowledge). The supply pile trashing is a minor theme, nothing overboard.
A general disclaimanifesto: a pervasive subtheme in many of my designs (both in dominion and in other/original board game designs) is hubris cards/abilities - higher risk cards or strategies that generally don't pay off. While this is boring to a competitive scene (there's usually a more optimal/dependable path), it enables the "big fish" stories that more casual game scenes thrive off of. This is the same design space that MtG's "Un-" sets live in; it sees cards like Coppersmith, Tribute, or snagging three coppers per turn for a Thief-Garden combo as worthwhile paths to examine, not missteps. I'd encourage looking at your own designs from this perspective. Ask whether a thing is fun when it pays off rarely - is the payoff story worth the times it doesnt work? Is the randomness fun for a new player? Since most gamers play a game only a handful of times, I'd say light constant randomness (shuffling) and heavy intermittent randomness (rare payoff strategies) are both crucial to a design to encourge a positive memory of a game, despite ths latter discouraging data-driven replayability.Yes, this is a fine way to expand the game. Those who like a more strategic Dominion can always stick to Donald's cards, can't they?
re: what you're buying with Prohibition, you're adding a token delivery mechanic to a pile (similar to a conceptual Adventure token for +1 Coffers) but it affects all players (a la Embargo). What the prohibition tokens do is resolve when the Vice Raid and Valuable Contraband Causes come up, as well as provide a future design space thematically based around bootlegging/smuggling.So 5 x players tokens go on the event, ready for taking. Are there going to be other ways to get them besides the Prohibited State? If there aren't then the number of tokens won't match up to the number of cards in the Prohibited pile in 3+ player games.
The mixed piles will be expanded upon in my second set, "Heresy"; for now they're largely cards that are variations on a theme, synergize in a way that doesn't necessitate one happening first a la split piles, and/or a collection of lower cost cards that would maybe be boring to have all three as separate kingdom cards but put them all together in one pile and you get interesting interactions. Having a nonconsistent supply pile can create interesting randomness in the (un)availability of the card you want.This could well work, and with your intent on the player interaction side it looks like a good mechanic to explore. It might just be Slaughterhouse/Cattleman I don't really like - terminal Actions are the ones players want to get right in their decks, and these two behave quite differently. So, I could see a mixed pile of very similar and/or non-terminal cards working better.
bingo - same as how when people don't like Potion-cost cards, they don't play with Alchemy. Like I said in the Causes rules, it's your game and you should play it how you want....
......Yes, this is a fine way to expand the game. Those who like a more strategic Dominion can always stick to Donald's cards, can't they?
You pay $4 to use the event - it allows you to place the Prohibited state on a pile. While the number of Prohibition tokens won't match the number of cards in the pile, the more limited number does make it so I don't have to buy an additional copy of Seaside to test with - for two or three player, i can just pull out the embargo tokens (for 4-6 i'll have to grab some 8mm cubes from my gamedesign supplies box). Why five per player? There's no real prize or penalty presently to having specifically more than 5; I figured five was a manageable amount, and thematically, if you were a bootlegger and got busted with five barrels of whiskey or ten, I don't think it really mattered in terms of penalty. Playtesting will tell whether I hit or missed the mark on that.re: what you're buying with Prohibition, you're adding a token delivery mechanic to a pile (similar to a conceptual Adventure token for +1 Coffers) but it affects all players (a la Embargo). What the prohibition tokens do is resolve when the Vice Raid and Valuable Contraband Causes come up, as well as provide a future design space thematically based around bootlegging/smuggling.So 5 x players tokens go on the event, ready for taking. Are there going to be other ways to get them besides the Prohibited State? If there aren't then the number of tokens won't match up to the number of cards in the Prohibited pile in 3+ player games.
And what I meant with buying was, you pay $4 to use the Event, what happens?
This is also the reason for trash-from-supply being a thing in this - you can sift the supply piles.The mixed piles will be expanded upon in my second set, "Heresy"; for now they're largely cards that are variations on a theme, synergize in a way that doesn't necessitate one happening first a la split piles, and/or a collection of lower cost cards that would maybe be boring to have all three as separate kingdom cards but put them all together in one pile and you get interesting interactions. Having a nonconsistent supply pile can create interesting randomness in the (un)availability of the card you want.This could well work, and with your intent on the player interaction side it looks like a good mechanic to explore. It might just be Slaughterhouse/Cattleman I don't really like - terminal Actions are the ones players want to get right in their decks, and these two behave quite differently. So, I could see a mixed pile of very similar and/or non-terminal cards working better.
Cow - how many of these are there? The premise looks good, storing these up to spike certain effects.16 for 2-4 player, 20 for five player, 24 for six. For the time being I'm not going to be testing with 5+6 players.
OK, I see the confusion now. The top and bottom line instructions on the Event are the wrong way round. The on-buy effect goes on top. The tokens can be however many then, as you say, because players can move Prohibited around the piles as they please so any pile can get tokens. The cost of $4 and a buy seems sensibly expensive so when someone makes a decision it likely stays for a while. The Event should probably also ignore the 2 landscapes per game rule, as it's essential to the functionality of some cards?Quote from: AquilaYou pay $4 to use the event - it allows you to place the Prohibited state on a pile. While the number of Prohibition tokens won't match the number of cards in the pile, the more limited number does make it so I don't have to buy an additional copy of Seaside to test with - for two or three player, i can just pull out the embargo tokens (for 4-6 i'll have to grab some 8mm cubes from my gamedesign supplies box). Why five per player? There's no real prize or penalty presently to having specifically more than 5; I figured five was a manageable amount, and thematically, if you were a bootlegger and got busted with five barrels of whiskey or ten, I don't think it really mattered in terms of penalty. Playtesting will tell whether I hit or missed the mark on that.re: what you're buying with Prohibition, you're adding a token delivery mechanic to a pile (similar to a conceptual Adventure token for +1 Coffers) but it affects all players (a la Embargo). What the prohibition tokens do is resolve when the Vice Raid and Valuable Contraband Causes come up, as well as provide a future design space thematically based around bootlegging/smuggling.So 5 x players tokens go on the event, ready for taking. Are there going to be other ways to get them besides the Prohibited State? If there aren't then the number of tokens won't match up to the number of cards in the Prohibited pile in 3+ player games.
And what I meant with buying was, you pay $4 to use the Event, what happens?
A fair number. Why not say 4 per player? With an even split: Milkmaid caps at $4, that's fair; Rustle powers down to Copper worth quite quickly; Slaughterhouse gets a Province once, which kinda emphasises that you use it once in the whole game, which seems to make Cattleman even more favourable. You could make a Slaughterhouse return the cows to their pile, if that would be balanced in an engine with 2 Rustles. Yes not so true to flavour but...cows breed.Quote from: AquilaCow - how many of these are there? The premise looks good, storing these up to spike certain effects.16 for 2-4 player, 20 for five player, 24 for six. For the time being I'm not going to be testing with 5+6 players.
Prohibited is actually closer to an Adventures-style token, i just didnt want to have the rules for it buried in the rulebook, nor have it be player-specific. While there havent been non-player-anchored states, there's no reason to reinvent the wheel here - let states be attached to whatever and provide additional rules for what they're attached to.
Prohibited is actually closer to an Adventures-style token, i just didnt want to have the rules for it buried in the rulebook, nor have it be player-specific. While there havent been non-player-anchored states, there's no reason to reinvent the wheel here - let states be attached to whatever and provide additional rules for what they're attached to.
Having something anchored to a pile rather than players feels different enough to me that it shouldn't be called a "State". I guess I can't force you to do anything though.
Crops is strictly better than Estate and thus has to cost at least (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/3/32/Coin3.png/16px-Coin3.png).Indeed. Yet at $3 it would be strictly worse than Tunnel. So it has to provide 1/3VPs or something else to differentiate it enough from Estate and Tunnel.
Crops is strictly better than Estate and thus has to cost at least (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/3/32/Coin3.png/16px-Coin3.png).
Crops is strictly better than Estate and thus has to cost at least (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/3/32/Coin3.png/16px-Coin3.png).
Indeed. Yet at $3 it would be strictly worse than Tunnel. So it has to provide 1/3VPs or something else to differentiate it enough from Estate and Tunnel.
On the 'strictly better' front I am fairly moderate. I believe that designing a card that is strictly better than an existing card is not a horrible design crime per se. It depends on whether the card one's design stands in relation to is singular, representitive of an entire card category or always present:Crops is strictly better than Estate and thus has to cost at least (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/3/32/Coin3.png/16px-Coin3.png).It changes up the relative value of Estates but that's about it. Maybe that's fine that it's the same price?Crops is strictly better than Estate and thus has to cost at least (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/3/32/Coin3.png/16px-Coin3.png).
Indeed. Yet at $3 it would be strictly worse than Tunnel. So it has to provide 1/3VPs or something else to differentiate it enough from Estate and Tunnel.
On the 'strictly better' front I am fairly moderate. I believe that designing a card that is strictly better than an existing card is not a horrible design crime per se. It depends on whether the card one's design stands in relation to is singular, representitive of an entire card category or always present:Crops is strictly better than Estate and thus has to cost at least (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/3/32/Coin3.png/16px-Coin3.png).It changes up the relative value of Estates but that's about it. Maybe that's fine that it's the same price?Crops is strictly better than Estate and thus has to cost at least (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/3/32/Coin3.png/16px-Coin3.png).
Indeed. Yet at $3 it would be strictly worse than Tunnel. So it has to provide 1/3VPs or something else to differentiate it enough from Estate and Tunnel.
- You could e.g. do a Mine which provides +1 Action and the world would not end.
- But if you did a Village with an cherry on top for $3 that would be bad as there are many villages in Dominion so the price of $3 for vanilla Village is a relevant benchmark.
- Designing a card which outclasses a card which is present in all Kingdoms is even worse.
So yeah, even from a very lenient perspective you cannot design a card which provides 1 or 2 VPs that costs $2 or $3.
Causes (10 cards total, one each)
Causes are card-like things that are shuffled, then one is shuffled into each of the Kingdom piles prior to the start of the game (in the event of split piles (introduced in Dominion: Empires), you may either randomly slot in the cause or just not include a Cause in that pile; it's your game and you should play it the way you like.) Causes affect all players. When a cause is revealed on a Kingdom pile, it is set aside; at the end of the turn the Cause was revealed, it is resolved - do what the card says on it. After resolving the Cause, it is placed back in the game box, removing it from the game. When building the Causes deck (prior to shuffling/adding one to each supply pile), you may include a number of blank white cards if you'd like each pile to potentially not have a cause in it - when the blank card is revealed, simply return it to the box. | |||||||||||||||||
Events
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Cattle
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Kingdom Cards that care about Wanted
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Other kingdom cards
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Crops seems fine as-ts; nobody will buy Estates unless the Crops pile is gone, but I don't think that's a problem.It is as much or as little of a problem as Farming Village for $3. You can do it and unlike Crops it matters in very few games. But it is still a bad design principle to do a card that is strictly better than an existing, non-singular card.
Portcullis doesn't need to be a Reaction, does it? It works exactly as it needs to just being an Action-Reserve.
(Reserve cards are all basically a "subtype" of reaction cards)
(https://i.imgur.com/vrmsA7L.png) | (https://i.imgur.com/8szZAbu.png) |
Mixed Piles are like split piles but their order doesn't matter. You can only buy or gain the top card of the pile. Mixed piles with two different cards have five each; mixed piles with three different cards have four each. While this goes against the conventional ten card pile, it does go with the original design choice of twelve cards per kingdom pile.
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Orrery, a terminal trasher that provides some deck control, would be weak at $3, let alone $3P.
Prophet is a potential source of non-terminal VPs that seems too easily exploitable in an engine.
Lead is an on-buy Treasure Trove that is far too weak. You end up with a Potion, x Coppers and x Golds in your deck.
The set collection thing about the Seals is a cool idea but I cannot imagine a situation in which I'd buy 2 Potions just for the sake of some lousy overpaying for VP. You are sometimes getting a second Potion with Alchemist or in the case of a Vineyard rush but Seals provide on average less VPs than Vineyards, i.e. they seem lees centralizing which make you less willing to get a second Potion (independent of the overpay thingy).
Your meta-problem seems to be that you seriously underestimate the opportunity cost of getting/having Potions. You have to buy a Potion and you have to deal with the disadvantage of an extra dead card in your deck.
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These look cool, I'll take a look at the other cards too, I'm just rejoining the forum after a few month's break.Did the reversed colors with the Looter-Nuns, to make the most important types (Action, Attack, Victory) show up better.
I really like the Clergy, I'll maybe take a closer look at each specifically later. Two of the sisters have the colors switched.
Because of the way treasures are played, I think you can pretty much always play Cursed Coin, I think that might break it.yeah but you still gotta deal with the curse from it. Also you can only play one per turn, you're SOL if you get ruined with several of them.
Crumbling Bridge looks much too strong.?
Not sure why Review is worded like that, I think the original wording was better if I'm remembering it correctly.this puts it more in line with how other intrigue-y choice cards are worded; I probably wouldn't have done it this way if I'd had more than two options, but here we are.
Archbishop looks incorrectly worded, I'm not quite sure how to fix it.You think so too, huh? I had a couple more clumsy options ("total up the cost of all cards trashed this and gain 1% per $2 of the sum of cards trashed's cost"?) and am open to suggestions on how to fix that.
My wording on Crumbling Bridge was much too strong, but I do think it's too strong for a Ruin.
(https://i.imgur.com/T8Kg4Xy.png)
Another card I couldn't remember/find the OP on, this card died forum-wise among a pricing dispute (was priced at $6, that was too little; priced at $9 was too high; etc) - pricing it with a potion, and making it only able to bury a Victory/Curse when initially playing it seems to even it out a bit.
Cell
(http://i.imgur.com/qfQ0UEf.png)
This card is probably way too powerful. Comparable to Hireling I think, but cheaper.
(https://i.imgur.com/T8Kg4Xy.png)
Another card I couldn't remember/find the OP on, this card died forum-wise among a pricing dispute (was priced at $6, that was too little; priced at $9 was too high; etc) - pricing it with a potion, and making it only able to bury a Victory/Curse when initially playing it seems to even it out a bit.
I think it's based on Kru5h's Cell:Cell
(http://i.imgur.com/qfQ0UEf.png)
This card is probably way too powerful. Comparable to Hireling I think, but cheaper.
You mention "making it only able to bury a Victory/Curse when initially playing it" as if you've done that, but your card only says "set aside a card." Assistant can bury any kind of card.
Also, you might want to word Assistant like Scheme: "At the start of each of your Clean-up phases, you may exchange a card you would discard from play with the set aside card," because as it's worded currently, it can allow you to get an indefinite amount of effective Hirelings.
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Mason's Lodge • $5 • Action - Duration
+1 Buy
Until the end of your next turn, cards cost $1 less (to a minimum of $0) for all players, and all players get +1 Buy at the start of their turn.
Whenever a player gains a card after their first, you get +1 Coffers.
Town Co-operative • $4 • Action - Duration
+1 Action
Until the end of your next turn, all players get +1 Action at the start of their turn. Whenever a player plays an Action after their first, you get +1 Villagers.
Borough • $4 • Action
+2 Coffers
+2 Villagers
+1 Elixir
Burglar • $4 • Action - Attack
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Coffers
Each opponent gets -1 Coffers. For each opponent who loses a Coffer this way, you get +1 Coffers.
Teller • $2 • Action
+2 Coffers
+1 Elixir
Trash this.
Dowager • $4 • Action
+2 Villagers
+1 Buy
+1 Elixir
(https://i.imgur.com/AAyC6cu.png)
Coffers but with potions.
I mean, the dilemma with Potion has always been the opportunity cost - after you buy your potion-cost cards, it's dead weight (or tfb fodder); I want to make that less of a thing while still forcing players to figure out their way around dual currencies.
These won't be in every game, similar to how Delve isn't in every game.
That said, bumping Borough + Burglar up to $6 and Dowager down to +1 Villager seems prudent.
alt vp for potion cards specifically? (that's on wave #3)I mean, the dilemma with Potion has always been the opportunity cost - after you buy your potion-cost cards, it's dead weight (or tfb fodder); I want to make that less of a thing while still forcing players to figure out their way around dual currencies.
These won't be in every game, similar to how Delve isn't in every game.
That said, bumping Borough + Burglar up to $6 and Dowager down to +1 Villager seems prudent.
With Dowager at (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/2/2a/Coin4.png/16px-Coin4.png) for +1 Elixer, +1 Villager, +1 Buy, I still don't see why anyone would ever buy a Potion while Dowager is in the Kingdom.
Without wanting to argue that Dowager or Elixier are good designs, Apothecary does not mind and Alchemist actually wants a Potion in play (instead of a "virtual Potion").I mean, the dilemma with Potion has always been the opportunity cost - after you buy your potion-cost cards, it's dead weight (or tfb fodder); I want to make that less of a thing while still forcing players to figure out their way around dual currencies.
These won't be in every game, similar to how Delve isn't in every game.
That said, bumping Borough + Burglar up to $6 and Dowager down to +1 Villager seems prudent.
With Dowager at (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/2/2a/Coin4.png/16px-Coin4.png) for +1 Elixer, +1 Villager, +1 Buy, I still don't see why anyone would ever buy a Potion while Dowager is in the Kingdom.
ErrinF?i don't know what this means
ErrinF?i don't know what this means
edit: uh no