Dominion Strategy Forum
Dominion => Game Reports => Topic started by: LibraryAdventurer on April 28, 2019, 09:42:59 pm
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I still can't understand why Bishop keeps going down in Qvist's ratings. The reason it gives a benefit to your opponent is because it's effect is really strong.
Then again, I think it was especially strong on this board, where I had enlightened* Minions, so I could trash a card with Bishop and then draw a new hand a lot of times. My opponent went for Castles, so he had to deal with a bunch of dead cards in his deck, while with Bishop, you can trash all the extra cards and still get VP for them. Using Bishop to trash Crumbling Castle, Sprawling Castle, and the Duchy gained with Sprawling Castle is fun. (Those were the only two castles I bought. My opponent got the rest.)
(*a word which here means my Minions learned Lost Arts)
Wish I could post the game log.
game #26087873
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Going down in the rankings doesn't mean it's useless. It's just a payload card first and a trashed second, and as payload it's often kind of cumbersome.
Being ranked relatively low in the Qvist list doesn't mean the card can't be the difference maker in a kingdom. It just means it usually isn't, which is the case with Bishop.
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In the stats markus has collected from high-level players on dominion.games, Bishop is gained by the winner in 49% of games in which it appears, but it still seems to be overgained (the loser gains it more often). It's not a bad card, though. There are a large minority of games where it's part of the optimal payload.
(https://by3301files.storage.live.com/y4mKUI0LCuMTp5oOao-j3m7x0soRGUK6SLW-d88dFqotWwX8Oja82mpv8-VfRhTnYCanw2vfGO6ZoZ4HsmhbM9FtK92AACXkoyLMRiFSdncwrb3zjLODyhmp-yFtkVByEMSDe2dcjzsmx9IqVwmhGgnJMSrym2M6akuOwQ7PHH8VoAeUdndHlBB2sP-3NgXBFI84d7S6wIc8o0JXSPl39Z5qw/039%20Bishop.png?psid=1&width=1394&height=929)
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enlightened* Minions
(*a word which here means my Minions learned Lost Arts)
Would your described tactic not have worked better with enlightened Bishops? That way no Action is terminal.
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The trashing is basically neutral, because it gives you and your opponents the same benefit. So Bishop largely reads:
+(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/f/f7/Coin1.png/16px-Coin1.png)
+(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/9/92/VP.png/16px-VP.png)
Maybe some more +(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/9/92/VP.png/16px-VP.png) (often 0 or 1).
Given that, it looks like a slightly weaker Monument most of the time, but with more potential for cool stuff like Province and Gold trashing.
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The trashing is basically neutral, because it gives you and your opponents the same benefit. So Bishop largely reads:
+(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/f/f7/Coin1.png/16px-Coin1.png)
+(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/9/92/VP.png/16px-VP.png)
Maybe some more +(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/9/92/VP.png/16px-VP.png) (often 0 or 1).
Given that, it looks like a slightly weaker Monument most of the time, but with more potential for cool stuff like Province and Gold trashing.
Well, that's what it reads if you play it as though it was a trasher. You can get that third line to be a lot stronger if you play it better.
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enlightened* Minions
(*a word which here means my Minions learned Lost Arts)
Would your described tactic not have worked better with enlightened Bishops? That way no Action is terminal.
Probably either way would've worked. I put it on Minion because I had more Minions at the time I bought Lost Arts.
The trashing is basically neutral, because it gives you and your opponents the same benefit. So Bishop largely reads:
+(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/f/f7/Coin1.png/16px-Coin1.png)
+(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/9/92/VP.png/16px-VP.png)
Maybe some more +(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/9/92/VP.png/16px-VP.png) (often 0 or 1).
Given that, it looks like a slightly weaker Monument most of the time, but with more potential for cool stuff like Province and Gold trashing.
Well, that's what it reads if you play it as though it was a trasher. You can get that third line to be a lot stronger if you play it better.
(Not something I say often, but) Awaclus is totally right. Bishop isn't primarily a trasher. Bishop is a victory token collector. With any gainer, Bishop will quite often give more than 2 victory tokens.