(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/4/4d/Bureaucrat.jpg/200px-Bureaucrat.jpg) | #95 ▼1 Bureaucrat (Base Set) Weighted Average: 6.37% / Unweighted Average: 8.74% / Median: 2.13% / Standard Deviation: 17.62% The new weakest card, Bureaucrat is a weak attack paired with silver gaining. There are a few decks where it is good to mediocre, but in the majority of engines, the card serves no viable purpose. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/4/42/Pirate_Ship.jpg/200px-Pirate_Ship.jpg) | #94 ▲1 Pirate Ship (Seaside) Weighted Average: 6.44% / Unweighted Average: 11.52% / Median: 2.13% / Standard Deviation: 21.64% Coming out of last place is Pirate Ship, now at second to last. It is a powerful combo with Capitalism (and Ambassador) and no doubt that has affected its rise. There seems to be a good deal of disagreement on how much that combo should factor into its ranking, however. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/6/63/Noble_Brigand.jpg/200px-Noble_Brigand.jpg) | #93 ▼1 Noble Brigand (Hinterlands) Weighted Average: 6.75% / Unweighted Average: 10.59% / Median: 4.26% / Standard Deviation: 19.52% Noble Brigand is weak, suffering from an inability to trash more exotic treasures and only giving a terminal +(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/f/f7/Coin1.png/16px-Coin1.png). As with Bureaucrat and Pirate Ship, it struggles in the modern meta of less treasure-heavy decks. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/d/dd/Navigator.jpg/200px-Navigator.jpg) | #92 ▲1 Navigator (Seaside) Weighted Average: 8.25% / Unweighted Average: 12.32% / Median: 6.38% / Standard Deviation: 19.52% Navigator suffers from lack of flexibility in addition to being a boring terminal Silver. However, its cycling can be valuable early game and sometimes it makes a good opener. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/d/d1/Ritual.jpg/320px-Ritual.jpg) | #91 ▼1 Ritual (Empires) Weighted Average: 9.98% / Unweighted Average: 13.38% / Median: 8.51% / Standard Deviation: 16.39% After a massive drop last year, Ritual continues to nudge downward. Other than Golds, there aren't a lot of good cards to trash that will make a decent (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/9/92/VP.png/16px-VP.png) profit. And since it gives you a curse, it doesn't actually thin your deck at all and swapping a valuable card for a curse can be a tough pill to swallow for some decks. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/e/e0/Taxman.jpg/200px-Taxman.jpg) | #90 ▼2 Taxman (Guilds) Weighted Average: 11.38% / Unweighted Average: 16.37% / Median: 8.51% / Standard Deviation: 21.14% Taxman suffers from money-centric syndrome and a weak on-play bonus. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/6/61/Treasure_Map.jpg/200px-Treasure_Map.jpg) | #89 ▲2 Treasure Map (Seaside) Weighted Average: 13.04% / Unweighted Average: 16.89% / Median: 11.11% / Standard Deviation: 19% Treasure Map is very good to add a bunch of payload at once, and if you can draw your deck you're in a very good position to pop these. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if this rose again in the future. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/1/1f/Feodum.jpg/200px-Feodum.jpg) | #88 ▲1 Feodum (Dark Ages) Weighted Average: 14.68% / Unweighted Average: 21.56% / Median: 9.57% / Standard Deviation: 26.93% Alt-VP is always underrated, and Feodum this low seems like a mistake. Still, a lot of times decks with Silver floods will be out preformed by better engines. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/2/2e/Rocks.jpg/200px-Rocks.jpg) | #87 ▼2 Rocks (Empires) Weighted Average: 15.23% / Unweighted Average: 17.48% / Median: 10.64% / Standard Deviation: 20.77% Rocks rarely gets uncovered. And when it does, it rarely matters, although (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/c/cc/Coin10.png/16px-Coin10.png) total of trash fodder can be nice if there is good TfB available. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/f/f6/Silk_Road.jpg/200px-Silk_Road.jpg) | #86 ▼3 Silk Road (Hinterlands) Weighted Average: 15.36% / Unweighted Average: 19.85% / Median: 11.7% / Standard Deviation: 21.29% Again the loss for Alt-VP seems unwarranted, Silk Roads and Duchies can be a viable pathway to defeating strain province drains. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/5/50/Death_Cart.jpg/200px-Death_Cart.jpg) | #85 =0 Death Cart (Dark Ages) Weighted Average: 16.64% / Unweighted Average: 24.31% / Median: 12.77% / Standard Deviation: 24.56% Death Cart provides a very hefty +(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/7/7d/Coin5.png/16px-Coin5.png) coin spike, but the cost of adding 2 junk cards to your deck is very high. Although, the ability to quickly drain multiple Supply piles can't be overlooked. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/8/89/Nomad_Camp.jpg/200px-Nomad_Camp.jpg) | #84 =0 Noman Camp (Hinterlands) Weighted Average: 17.71% / Unweighted Average: 20.02% / Median: 17.02% / Standard Deviation: 14.44% Nomad Camp is a pretty straightforward card. As +Buy goes it's pretty weak, but being +Buy there are plenty of boards where you have to pick one up. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/c/cf/Talisman.jpg/200px-Talisman.jpg) | #83 ▲4 Talisman (Prosperity) Weighted Average: 19.35% / Unweighted Average: 22.69% / Median: 19.15% / Standard Deviation: 18.84% Talisman gains an impressive 4 ranks. Ever since 2nd Editions, there have been a greater amount of powerful and spammable $4 cards, and adding multiple to your deck at once is nice. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/f/fd/Island.jpg/200px-Island.jpg) | #82 ▼3 Island (Seaside) Weighted Average: 21.49% / Unweighted Average: 24.75% / Median: 19.15% / Standard Deviation: 18.23% Island is weak trashing, and it's main benefit is being able to pseudo-trash Provinces and other high-point Victory cards. Sometimes you get it for the 2(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/9/92/VP.png/16px-VP.png), but usually I just see them picked up by Workshops to add some side benefits to a deck. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/8/8c/Gardens.jpg/200px-Gardens.jpg) | #81 ▼3 Gardens (Base Set) Weighted Average: 21.92% / Unweighted Average: 25.56% / Median: 19.15% / Standard Deviation: 20.96% I would attribute Garden's drop to the recent introduction of very many very powerful trashers, starting with Donate, and recently Goat and Cathedral. It's still good with Beggar, but it can't beat engines that are able to get on their feet incredibly fast. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/1/12/Trader.jpg/200px-Trader.jpg) | #80 ▲2 Trader (Hinterlands) Weighted Average: 22.2% / Unweighted Average: 27.99% / Median: 18.09% / Standard Deviation: 23.74% If you need a crap ton of Silvers, look no further than Trader. If you don't, then, well, you'll probably never pick up this card. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/e/ee/Bard.jpg/200px-Bard.jpg) | #79 ▲1 Bard (Nocturne) Weighted Average: 22.24% / Unweighted Average: 24.57% / Median: 19.15% / Standard Deviation: 17.05% Bard is a powerful card most of the time, but it's unpredictability severely hampers its power. Getting Forest's, Field's, Flame's, or Eath's gifts can all do wonders, but it feels awful when you pop open the River's gift on a crucial turn. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/8/8f/Exploration.jpg/320px-Exploration.jpg) | #78 Exploration (Renaissance) Weighted Average: 22.28% / Unweighted Average: 23.21% / Median: 16.3% / Standard Deviation: 17.69% The first Renaissance card on this list, Exploration comes in at a respectable but disappointing place #78. Since it's a project it never really hurts to pick it up, but it doesn't trigger very often. If you're dudding very frequently, then this isn't going to save you. The best case for this is other Events(s) that you'll be buying multiple times. With Mission in particular, it can really get the tokens flowing in. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/7/70/Rats.jpg/200px-Rats.jpg) | #77 ▲3 Rats (Dark Ages) Weighted Average: 22.67% / Unweighted Average: 25.2% / Median: 18.09% / Standard Deviation: 18.17% Rats gains 3 spaces, possibly due to the recent addition of Dismantle, Recruiter, and Research, both TfB cards. If you don't let them get out of control then you can get plenty of Cards, (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/9/92/VP.png/16px-VP.png), Villagers, Gains, or what have you out of them. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/7/7d/Cutpurse.jpg/200px-Cutpurse.jpg) | #76 ▼7 Cutpurse (Seaside) Weighted Average: 25.34% / Unweighted Average: 25.34% / Median: 25.53% / Standard Deviation: 19.46% Cutpurse drops seven ranks, making him one of tonight's biggest losers. Even if your opponent has copper around, losing one isn't going to ruin their turn, especially after the first few shuffles. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/f/f6/Miser.jpg/200px-Miser.jpg) | #75 ▲1 Miser (Adventures) Weighted Average: 25.99% / Unweighted Average: 29.63% / Median: 24.47% / Standard Deviation: 21.2% Miser takes too long to get anywhere. It does trash your copper instead of your opponent's, so it's at least significantly better than Pirate Ship. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/3/3c/Messenger.jpg/200px-Messenger.jpg) | #74 =0 Messenger (Adventures) Weighted Average: 27.93% / Unweighted Average: 28.34% / Median: 26.6% / Standard Deviation: 16.69% Messenger gives out cards to everyone, and who doesn't love that. Generally speaking, it's just a good way to empty piles because there aren't a lot of cases where you significantly want one card more than your opponent does. And because you probably forgot, it only triggers if it's the first buy of the turn. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/c/c8/Horse_Traders.jpg/200px-Horse_Traders.jpg) | #73 ▼2 Horse Traders (Cornucopia) Weighted Average: 29.02% / Unweighted Average: 33.76% / Median: 31.91% / Standard Deviation: 17.29% Discard for benefit is a rare niche, but maybe it's what you need to get those Cursed Villages drawing up to par. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/6/66/Salt_the_Earth.jpg/320px-Salt_the_Earth.jpg) | #72 ▲1 Salt the Earth (Empires) Weighted Average: 31.2% / Unweighted Average: 28.57% / Median: 23.4% / Standard Deviation: 18.68% Salt the Earth actually has a higher weighted average, an irregularity for cards so far down on this list. Salt the Earth is a weird card that rarely directly does anything but will always change the way the game is played out. Don't leave that last province exposed if you're not in a good position. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/b/b4/Secret_Passage.jpg/200px-Secret_Passage.jpg) | #71 ▼3 Secret Passage (Intrigue) Weighted Average: 31.72% / Unweighted Average: 33.13% / Median: 30.85% / Standard Deviation: 19.3% Secret Passage is technically a cantrip, but powerful combos with it are few and far between. At best, it's some form of gimped Laboratory with Mystic or Wishing Well. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/c/c5/Dismantle.jpg/200px-Dismantle.jpg) | #70 Dismantle (Promo) Weighted Average: 32.43% / Unweighted Average: 35.27% / Median: 31.91% / Standard Deviation: 17.69% At its first outing, Dismantle gets ranked #70, which is surprising to me. I see it get picked up pretty often and it's a really easy way to gain a lot of Golds. Late game, you can trash the Golds and get a (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/7/7d/Coin5.png/16px-Coin5.png) for your troubles. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/e/ee/Pilgrimage.jpg/320px-Pilgrimage.jpg) | #69 ▲2 Pilgrimage (Adventures) Weighted Average: 32.54% / Unweighted Average: 32.42% / Median: 26.6% / Standard Deviation: 21.23% Pilgrimage costs 2 buys, which is a big turn off, especially without +Buy. But even without expensive cards in play it can be a good investment just to pick up so many cards at once. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/7/73/Baron.jpg/200px-Baron.jpg) | #68 ▲6 Baron (Intrigue) Weighted Average: 32.7% / Unweighted Average: 34.38% / Median: 30.85% / Standard Deviation: 19.21% Baron gains an impressive 6 ranks. I guess people like how much money it gives? I'm surprised by its rise. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/a/a7/Armory.jpg/200px-Armory.jpg) | #67 ▼1 Armory (Dark Ages) Weighted Average: 33.71% / Unweighted Average: 32.48% / Median: 29.79% / Standard Deviation: 18.47% Armoury is a workshop variant. The top-decking is nice, but it has a bit more competition at (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/2/2a/Coin4.png/16px-Coin4.png) than its predecessor at (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/3/32/Coin3.png/16px-Coin3.png). And depending on what you're gaining, the topdecking can be a drawback. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/d/d9/Scavenger.jpg/200px-Scavenger.jpg) | #66 ▲3 Scavenger (Dark Ages) Weighted Average: 34.01% / Unweighted Average: 37.55% / Median: 28.72% / Standard Deviation: 22.11% Combos with Stash. We miss you Stash. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/a/a0/Poacher.jpg/200px-Poacher.jpg) | #65 ▼3 Poacher (Base Set) Weighted Average: 36.17% / Unweighted Average: 34.1% / Median: 32.98% / Standard Deviation: 13.54% Poacher drops three ranks. It would be a fine card without the penalty, but with it Poacher is significantly weaker. If one pile empties than it's an expensive Oasis, and if two are empty it's a really bad Mill. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/a/ad/Monument.jpg/200px-Monument.jpg) | #64 ▼5 Monument (Prosperity) Weighted Average: 37.42% / Unweighted Average: 42.46% / Median: 36.17% / Standard Deviation: 20.06% Monument is significantly higher ranked by worse players. The hard part for Monument is getting in enough plays that the (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/9/92/VP.png/16px-VP.png)s make a difference. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/a/a2/Silos.jpg/320px-Silos.jpg) | #63 Silos (Renaissance) Weighted Average: 38.06% / Unweighted Average: 36.6% / Median: 35.11% / Standard Deviation: 19.76% Silos is the next Renaissance card. If there's no Copper trashing then it's a must-buy, with Copper trashing it's very skippable. I don't think there's much strategical nuance in this Project. You either get it early or you don't get it at all. But maybe powerful Silos/trasher open strategies will be developed to use the early cycling boost? |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/5/59/Duplicate.jpg/200px-Duplicate.jpg) | #62 ▲1 Duplicate (Adventures) Weighted Average: 39.09% / Unweighted Average: 42.73% / Median: 39.06% / Standard Deviation: 18.11% Duplicate is nice, but it's terminal. Unless you're planning a megaturn with Bridge it doesn't usually shine. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/4/4f/Skulk.jpg/200px-Skulk.jpg) | #61 ▲1 Skulk (Nocturne) Weighted Average: 39.69% / Unweighted Average: 42.21% / Median: 34.78% / Standard Deviation: 20.96% Skulk I think is underrated. Gaining a free Gold is very nice with Encampment, Legionary, and TfB. Also, it's +Buy, and sometimes the attack does something important. Don't sleep on this one. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/7/77/Fair.jpg/320px-Fair.jpg) | #60 Fair (Renaissance) Weighted Average: 39.92% / Unweighted Average: 41.66% / Median: 40.43% / Standard Deviation: 17.94% Seems like a fair ranking to me. Again, I don't see much strategical nuance in this card. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/e/e4/Flag_Bearer.jpg/200px-Flag_Bearer.jpg) | #59 Flag Bearer (Renaissance) Weighted Average: 40.47% / Unweighted Average: 48.03% / Median: 39.36% / Standard Deviation: 23.51% A very controversial card, Flag Bearer has an 8% lower weighted average and 24% standard deviation. Many people see this as a trap card, and are very split on when, if ever, it's the right move to be the first to buy one. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/6/6c/Walled_Village.jpg/200px-Walled_Village.jpg) | #58 ▼4 Walled Village (Promo) Weighted Average: 45.8% / Unweighted Average: 48.03% / Median: 45.74% / Standard Deviation: 17.92% Villages are nice, moving on. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/7/7e/Patron.jpg/200px-Patron.jpg) | #57 Patron (Renaissance) Weighted Average: 45.86% / Unweighted Average: 45.39% / Median: 41.49% / Standard Deviation: 17.27% Patron is another newcomer. It's strictly* better than Silver at (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/2/2a/Coin4.png/16px-Coin4.png). Major combos include: Hunting Party, City Quarter, Seer, and, of course, Black Market. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/b/b4/Bishop.jpg/200px-Bishop.jpg) | #56 ▼2 Bishop (Prosperity) Weighted Average: 46.23% / Unweighted Average: 51.55% / Median: 46.81% / Standard Deviation: 26.48% The highest standard deviation on the list, Bishop is a controversial card, to say the least. It's hard to figure out how much the trashing for your opponent helps them. When does that make it not worth it? |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/7/7e/Necromancer.jpg/200px-Necromancer.jpg) | #55 ▲6 Necromancer (Nocturne) Weighted Average: 46.6% / Unweighted Average: 45.81% / Median: 44.68% / Standard Deviation: 21.12% Zombie Apprentice is honestly a really good card, and the Necromancer army is very powerful and flexible. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/8/85/Diplomat.jpg/200px-Diplomat.jpg) | #54 ▼8 Diplomat (Intrigue) Weighted Average: 47.26% / Unweighted Average: 45.34% / Median: 43.62% / Standard Deviation: 19.25% Apparently Diplomat is much harder to activate than previously thought. Lost cities at 4 are nice, but with all the hoops you have to jump through it just doesn't work a decent amount of the time. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/2/2e/Remodel.jpg/200px-Remodel.jpg) | #53 ▲3 Remodel (Base Set) Weighted Average: 50.37% / Unweighted Average: 49.85% / Median: 46.81% / Standard Deviation: 16.7% Remodel is a tad underrated, it should be in the top half. The pile control is impressive. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/1/10/Mill.jpg/200px-Mill.jpg) | #52 ▼8 Mill (Intrigue) Weighted Average: 50.78% / Unweighted Average: 49.16% / Median: 46.81% / Standard Deviation: 18.67% Another large drop in Intrigue, this time for Mill. Apparently, it's hard to make it produce the maximal amount of gold for the maximal amount of people. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/3/37/Ranger.jpg/200px-Ranger.jpg) | #51 ▲5 Ranger (Adventures) Weighted Average: 51.1% / Unweighted Average: 49.15% / Median: 47.87% / Standard Deviation: 16.43% Just remember, always leave your token face down so it's easier to kick off your next turn. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/3/36/Research.jpg/200px-Research.jpg) | #50 Research (Renaissance) Weighted Average: 52.3% / Unweighted Average: 52.47% / Median: 53.19% / Standard Deviation: 19.17% Research is a weak trasher, deserving of it's place in the middle. I expect it to drop a bit in future years. |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/1/1f/Conclave.jpg/200px-Conclave.jpg) | #49 ▲1 Conclave (Nocturne) Weighted Average: 52.46% / Unweighted Average: 53.96% / Median: 51.06% / Standard Deviation: 16.59% Conclave is a tricky village, but it provides a decent amount of (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/6/6d/Coin.png/16px-Coin.png). |
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/a/ab/Engineer.jpg/200px-Engineer.jpg) | #48 =0 Engineer (Empires) Weighted Average: 52.85% / Unweighted Average: 51.21% / Median: 51.06% / Standard Deviation: 20.42% Engineer's best ability is being able to trash itself once it's worn out its welcome. Also, you can squeak it in on the 4/3. |
We miss you Stash
I probably missed this discussion earlier; but are first-edition cards left out of the rankings? I would assume so, otherwise where is Thief?
I disagree with that; just because a card isn't in the second printing of Dominion doesn't make it any less an official and real Dominion card.
I probably missed this discussion earlier; but are first-edition cards left out of the rankings? I would assume so, otherwise where is Thief?
I disagree with that; just because a card isn't in the second printing of Dominion doesn't make it any less an official and real Dominion card.
I probably missed this discussion earlier; but are first-edition cards left out of the rankings? I would assume so, otherwise where is Thief?
I disagree with that; just because a card isn't in the second printing of Dominion doesn't make it any less an official and real Dominion card.
Disagree with your disagreement.
Anyway, Cutpurse is way too low. In the early game, it's better than Militia.
I probably missed this discussion earlier; but are first-edition cards left out of the rankings? I would assume so, otherwise where is Thief?
I disagree with that; just because a card isn't in the second printing of Dominion doesn't make it any less an official and real Dominion card.
Disagree with your disagreement.
Anyway, Cutpurse is way too low. In the early game, it's better than Militia.
Curious on what grounds. Are these supposed to be the "Second Edition Dominion Card Lists" or the "Dominion Card Lists"?
I would say they aren't official anymore. Donald X. has said on BGG (https://boardgamegeek.com/article/23768958#23768958) (and probably elsewhere too), "I recommend that you stop using the replaced cards". My understanding is that they are no longer part of the Dominion canon, and not worth the trouble ranking. They also weren't ranked in 2017.
Again the loss for Alt-VP seems unwarranted, Silk Roads and Duchies can be a viable pathway to defeating strain province drains.
Anyway, Cutpurse is way too low. In the early game, it's better than Militia.
It strikes me that Militia kills variance more than Cutpurse does?Anyway, Cutpurse is way too low. In the early game, it's better than Militia.I'd say it's about on par with it. They both usually take $1 away from you in the beginning.
It strikes me that Militia kills variance more than Cutpurse does?Anyway, Cutpurse is way too low. In the early game, it's better than Militia.I'd say it's about on par with it. They both usually take $1 away from you in the beginning.
Cutpurse takes $1 away from almost any early hand; Militia takes nothing from bad hands but $2 from good ones.
Doesn't that mean Militia's going to hurt more when people are trying to make their first $5 purchase?
It strikes me that Militia kills variance more than Cutpurse does?
Cutpurse takes $1 away from almost any early hand; Militia takes nothing from bad hands but $2 from good ones.
Doesn't that mean Militia's going to hurt more when people are trying to make their first $5 purchase?
[Flag Bearer] is the third most gained $4 card overall!From what I can see, it's in 4th, after Tournament, Magpie, and Silk Merchant.
[Flag Bearer] is the third most gained $4 card overall!From what I can see, it's in 4th, after Tournament, Magpie, and Silk Merchant.
Flag Bearer was even in my top 10. I don't really stand by my rankings, but what can I say, we usually got Flag Bearer. And when we did get it, we got a lot of them and it was very game-dominating. And the stats show that other people have had a similar experiences, so I'm puzzled that people think it's weak.
Earlier I made a sim (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19470.msg785419#new) and it seems like first Flag Bearer is pretty bad in a single-card kingdom. So, In the future I will think harder before getting the first one. But I think first Flag Bearer is good in a lot more situations than the sim suggests. The thing about the single-card kingdom is that your opponent only needs to pass up on gold to take the flag away from you, but in a real kingdom there are much better options than gold, so taking the flag comes with a more serious opportunity cost.
Patron is ... strictly* better than Silver at (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/2/2a/Coin4.png/16px-Coin4.png).Maybe I overlooked the caveat the asterisk seems to be pointing to, but: Silver can't be drawn dead.
There wasn't a caveat that was written out, but I added the asterisk as a shorthand (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19210.msg777668#msg777668) to denote the slew of edge cases where Patron is better than Silver. Ignoring types and drawing dead, Patron is just a Silver with a reaction that can provide a Villager.QuotePatron is ... strictly* better than Silver at (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/2/2a/Coin4.png/16px-Coin4.png).Maybe I overlooked the caveat the asterisk seems to be pointing to, but: Silver can't be drawn dead.
VillagerCoffer (if the "that" refers to the reaction; the Villager only makes the Patron non-terminal).
It's fine that Patron is strictly* better than Silver at (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/2/2a/Coin4.png/16px-Coin4.png); pretty much all the reasons that Donald avoids having a better-than-Silver at (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/2/2a/Coin4.png/16px-Coin4.png) only apply to strictly better, not to strictly* better.Patron causes the problem that I avoided for many years by not making Silver-with-a-bonus at $4, though it dodges being strictly better than $4 Silver on paper because you need to play it once to have a villager to not draw it dead. I decided to live with it for that one card and in practice it doesn't come up so often, though I have seen it.
I probably missed this discussion earlier; but are first-edition cards left out of the rankings? I would assume so, otherwise where is Thief?
I disagree with that; just because a card isn't in the second printing of Dominion doesn't make it any less an official and real Dominion card.
It's fine that Patron is strictly* better than Silver at (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/2/2a/Coin4.png/16px-Coin4.png); pretty much all the reasons that Donald avoids having a better-than-Silver at (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/2/2a/Coin4.png/16px-Coin4.png) only apply to strictly better, not to strictly* better.Patron causes the problem that I avoided for many years by not making Silver-with-a-bonus at $4, though it dodges being strictly better than $4 Silver on paper because you need to play it once to have a villager to not draw it dead. I decided to live with it for that one card and in practice it doesn't come up so often, though I have seen it.
It strikes me that Militia kills variance more than Cutpurse does?Anyway, Cutpurse is way too low. In the early game, it's better than Militia.I'd say it's about on par with it. They both usually take $1 away from you in the beginning.
Cutpurse takes $1 away from almost any early hand; Militia takes nothing from bad hands but $2 from good ones.
Doesn't that mean Militia's going to hurt more when people are trying to make their first $5 purchase?
even if your militia hits 2 estates, you might have prevented them from being trashed
Yes, that's what I meant. Mostly there isn't a problem. The problem is the pile being emptied when people didn't care about Patron, just bought it because it was Silver for $4. It's actually a problem, it makes the game shorter than would be ideal, like if the rule were that only two piles needed to be empty. And I've seen it. But mostly when the pile empties, people did care.Patron causes the problem that I avoided for many years by not making Silver-with-a-bonus at $4, though it dodges being strictly better than $4 Silver on paper because you need to play it once to have a villager to not draw it dead. I decided to live with it for that one card and in practice it doesn't come up so often, though I have seen it.
You've seen it, but have you seen it be a problem?
When Silver is the best thing to buy at $4 repeatedly, it's probably a good idea for the game to be shorter.
When Silver is the best thing to buy at $4 repeatedly, it's probably a good idea for the game to be shorter.What about if casual players in a four-player game want 10 Silvers between them? Still yes because hey it's a four-player game, why doesn't it already have a two-pile end condition?
in a four-player game
Man you're not even trying.in a four-player game
It's probably a good idea for the game to be shorter.