Dominion Strategy Forum

Miscellaneous => Forum Games => Mafia Game Threads => Topic started by: jotheonah on January 24, 2019, 06:05:41 pm

Title: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (GAME OVER, Maquis win!)
Post by: jotheonah on January 24, 2019, 06:05:41 pm
...when I think back to the most entertaining games over the long haul, some of them were a bit wild. I mean, for me personally, some highlights were: Joetheonah's Deep Space Nine (Mafia 19, I think?)...

Welcome to RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux

Mod: jotheonah

Since there are currently no active sign-up threads other than poor stalled out Cryptography mafia, I decided to go ahead and post this. It will not start before RMM51 concludes.

This is an open game for 18 players. It will be a tweaked and rebalanced version of Mafia XIX, which you can read here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=6314.0). Note this was previously run as a closed setup, but this time it will be open (Plz don't break the game). Some more information will be provided in the next post.

Players:
1. Jimmmmm Kira Nerys, 1-shot Vigilante
2. UmbrageOfSnow ADK Miles O'Brien, Mirror Universe Cop
3. LaLight EFHW Worf, Maquis Cop
4. DatSwan Julian Bashir, Even-Night Changeling Cop and 1-shot Doctor
5. mcmcsalot Benjamin Sisko, Roleblocker
6. Glooble Odo, Flavor/Role Cop
7. WestCoastDidds, Dax, 1-shot Deathproof
8. SpaceAnemone, Kai Winn, Double Voter
9. Shraeye, Bariel Antos, Universal Backup
10. MiX, Morn, Loved Serial Killer
11. faust Quark, Neighbor
12. ashersky, Garak, Busdriver/Lightning Rod
13. 2.71828..... General Martok, Bomb
14. Robz888 Jake Sisko, Innocent Child
15. Awaclus Rom, Neighbor
16. Uncleeurope Gul Dukat, Godfather
17. raerae Kasidy Yates, 1-shot Commuter
18. chickenwarlord Nog, Neighbor

Day starts:

Day 1 start (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19459.msg789801#msg789801)
Day 2 start (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19459.msg792995#msg792995)
Day 3 start (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19459.msg794031#msg794031)
Day 4 start (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19459.msg795018#msg795018)
Day 5 start (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19459.msg796216#msg796216)
Day 6 start (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19459.msg797706#msg797706)

Spectators tagged:

mail-mi

General rules

Changes to the usual rule sets are marked in navy.

The Golden Rule:


Please remember that this is a game and your main objective is to have fun!  Be considerate of each other, donít get personal, and enjoy the game. Please read The Civility Pledge (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=7695.0) before signing up for any mafia game on this site.  If you have not /pledged there, you cannot play. Excessive personal attacks or uncivil behavior may be dealt with by modifiers or modkills.

1. General Gameplay and Etiquette:

1. You may not quote information (either real or fabricated) from any game-related source other than the thread you are posting in. This means no quotes from PMs and no quotes from QTs in the main thread or in another QT. Paraphrasing is acceptable. If you are unsure whether a post is legal, please ask the moderator before posting.
2. There is to be NO personal communication outside of the forum postings and the QTs specifically designed for this purpose.
3. As a general rule you should aim for one post every 12 hours, minimum, to keep the game moving.

2. Voting, Deadlines, and Player Death:

1. Day phases will last 7 days, Night lasts at least 48 hours. Night action deadline is 36 hours after night start.
2. A simple majority (rounded up) of all living members must agree on one person for a lynch to occur prior to deadline.
3. Once you have reached a simple majority no further unvoting will change someoneís fate. Further votes will also be ignored.
4. Once a player is lynched, the game enters twilight until the mod locks the thread; all players including the one who was lynched may continue to post during twilight.
5. If the deadline is hit without a player reaching the majority of votes, the vote is treated as a No Lynch
6. Please submit votes as: Vote: PlayerName.  Votes in another format may or may not be counted. This is up to the mod's discretion. Obvious abbreviations or nicknames will be counted so long as they are unambiguous.
7. Please submit vote revocations Unvote. Unvotes are not necessary before changing votes.
8. You may Vote: No Lynch - a simple majority of these vote types are required to send the game to Night phase without a lynch.
10. Any time you are dead (either via lynch or night kill) you may no longer post in the game or in shared Quicktopics. This means that you do not even get a ďBahĒ post. The dead in this game are silent.
11. If the thread is locked, you may not post.  Threads can be locked for various reasons, but no matter what the reason, you may not post.  The mod may forget to lock the thread, but if they say it is locked, it is still locked.

3. Miscellaneous/Mechanics:

1. Bold, navy blue text is reserved for the mod.  No invisible/small text is allowed, nor is cryptography.
2. If you have an issue/problem with the game, please discuss this in your role QT.  Do not post issues/complaints in the game thread.
3. The Mods may make mistakes - please point out any mistakes gently.  Mistakes will be corrected where possible, but sometimes mistakes are made that cannot be reversed.  These will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
4. Please bold all requests to the Mods so that they donít get missed.
5. Prods of missing players may be issued after 24 hours of no activity.  A prodded player has 24 hours to respond or risks replacement.  A player who has been prodded 2 times is subject to replacement under without further notice. Players with announced VLA are exempt from this rule the first time it happens.
6. If you anticipate being unavailable for more than a 48-hour period please post a notice to that effect in the thread.  Treat this game as a commitment.  Be considerate Ė donít leave us hanging. Players who fail to post for 48 hours without an announcement risk being subject to replacement and/or being modkilled without further notice.
7. Please do not discuss ongoing games, it can unintentionally affect the other game. Do not discuss this game in any thread that is not directly related to it.
8. Rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity, which may include modkill(s) if needed.
9. Players who discover they are too busy to play in a game or want to leave the game for civility issues are not allowed to officially /out in the thread.  A request to /out must only be done via a post in the role QT. Please do not use this as a manipulation technique.  (Note players may continue to threaten to /out or imply that they might as long as it does not include an official request). Requests to /out are final once submitted. There will be no /outing and then /inning back into the game so make sure that when you /out you have thought it through and really want to do it. Players that can't be replaced will simply be mod-killed. Whether your request to /out will lead to replacement or a modkill is up to the mod's discretion.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux
Post by: jotheonah on January 24, 2019, 06:06:03 pm
Setup

As mentioned above, this will be a tweaked re-run of my Deep Space Nine mafia game with an open rather than closed setup. I only ran the original game as closed out of an abundance of caution.

The inspiration for this game was that I was trying to think of a way to have heavily-flavored games without having flavor connected in any way to alignment (although there are ultimately some exceptions).

It might turn out to be a hard sell to get 18 people to sign up for multiball. If that's the case, I might rejigger the setup to be played with fewer folks.

You're on Deep Space Nine, just before the start of the Dominion War. At a busy port on the wild frontier of space, it's hard to keep track of all the comings and goings. Despite Odo's best efforts, a string of sabotages on the station have made it clear that someone on board is not what they seem to be.

It's possible that some crewmembers have secretly defected and joined the Maquis, a terrorist group within the Federation. It's also possible that a few crewmembers have been replaced by their mirror universe duplicates - you'd never know the difference if they shaved their goatee. And of course, there's the constant threat of changeling infiltration, though they wouldn't bother with a team. No if there's a changeling aboard he's a solitary serial killer.

Well, this won't do at all. Captain Sisko will take some crewmembers and trusted civilians off their regular duties and assign them to investigate for the various threats.


Non-flavored information:

- The setup will either have two scum teams (Mirror Universe and Maquis) or one scum team and one serial killer (Changeling Infiltrator). You won't know which. Scum teams will consist of three players.
- Either way, there will be three alignment cops: a Maquis cop, a Mirror Universe cop, and a changeling cop. These three will be guaranteed NOT the alignment they investigate for - but not guaranteed town.
- Everyone else will have a small role - generally either an X-shot version of a power role or a role of marginal or even negative utility.
- These roles, and characters, will be assigned 100 percent independent of alignment, with the exception of the cops, who cannot be the alignment they investigate. Knowing someone's role or character will not tell you if they're scum.
- There will be only one version of each character in game. So if there's a Mirror Universe Bashir, there won't also be a Changeling Bashir or a Bashir Prime.
- The game is designed to be reasonably balanced in most configuration. But some possible rolls of the dice (e.g. all 3 Ferengi on one scum team) might need to be redone

Quick primer on Deep Space Nine:

It's the third Star Trek series, and the only one to be set on a space station rather than a ship. As such, it has a much richer tapestry of ongoing plotlines than other Star Treks, starting with the discovery of the galaxy's first stable wormhole (which is also home to non-linear time aliens who some characters worship as Gods) to a full on war with aliens from the other side of the wormhole that lasts the last 3 seasons of the show.

The Maquis are dissatisfied members of the Federation (the intergalactic alliance Earth is part of in the 24th century). When Starfleet officers defect to the Maquis on the show, they tend to do it secretly at first, using their rank and position to steal something to help the resistance. So a nice mafia flavor hook.

The Mirror Universe is a ridiculous Star Trek concept - an alternate reality where good people are evil and evil people are good. It started out in the original series, but DS9 did about one mirror universe episode per season.

Changelings are the big bosses of the Dominion, the bad guys in the war. Odo, the station's security chief, is a changeling, but he was raised in the alpha quadrant and he's loyal to the good guys. They can shape shift into animals, other people, inanimate objects, you name it. In the show, the Dominion replaces people with changeling operatives in order to destabilize the alpha quadrant and get them to weaken each other before launching an all out attack.

Knowing more about the show than that will help you make guesses about people's roles if you know their character. But even all that is more than you need to know for a mafia game.


The roles:

The IC (trigger variety):
Jake Sisko

The Cops:
Odo -- flavor/role cop, investigates to Bashir as Changeling even if not SK
Dr. Julian Bashir -- even night changeling cop and 1-shot doctor
Chief Miles O'Brien -- mirror universe cop
Lt. Cmdr. Worf -- maquis cop

The Ferengi:
(Ferengi are a neighborhood. They will be mod-confirmed to not include a specific NON-TOWNalignment. That can be the alignment that isn't in the game.)
Quark
Rom
Nog

Captain Benjamin Sisko -- roleblocker
Major Kira Nerys -- 1-shot vigilante (if town)/1-shot bulletproof (if scum)
Lt. Jadzia Dax / Lt. Ezri Dax -- 1-shot deathproof
Elim Garak, a simple tailor -- 1-shot bus driver OR 1-shot lightning rod (his choice)
Vedek Antos Bariel -- Universal Backup
Captain Kasidy Yates -- 1-shot commuter
General Martok - bomb
Gul Dukat - hated (stops working when it would take 1 or less vote to lynch) godfather
Morn - loved (stops working when he canít be lynched without self-voting)
Kai Winn - 1-shot double voter (can't be concealed)

In addition to these roles, the SK will gain the bulletproof and strongman modifiers

Town is known as Station-aligned in this game. The town win condition is as follows:
Quote
You win when all threats to the Station have been eliminated, and there is at least one Station-aligned player left alive, or nothing can stop this from happening.

Setup clarifications:

Jake Sisko, the IC, is the only character whose alignment is not independent of his role. He is always town. His IC trigger ability can be triggered any time, night or day, and cannot be blocked.

The Ferengi are informed of an alignment that no one in their neighborhood has and that the UB doesn't have, so that if the UB becomes a Ferengi their information is still good.

The Changeling's bulletproof protects against all nightkills, including Martok's bomb. The Changeling's strongman gets through Bashir's doctor shot and scum!Kira's bulletproof. Kasidy can still survive by commuting and Garak can still redirect the shot with either of his abilities.

If Martok is doctored, all (non-bulletproof) players who targeted him with a nightkill still die. It's the act of targeting him, not the act of killing him, that triggers his ability.

Bariel, the UB, triggers when the first other player dies, unless that player is Dax or Jake, in which case it triggers on the second player dying (even if that player is Dax again). If two players die at once when Bariel would be triggered, he acquires one of their roles at random. Which one will not be publicly announced. Bariel's alignment does not change when he inherits a role. If he inherits the changeling role, he inherits only their base role, not their bulletproof or strongman modifiers. He does not inherit a scum player's nightkill. He does not inherit Odo's Miller ability.

Bariel can inherit a cop ability for his own faction. While the original cops are guaranteed to not be the alignment they investigate, this does not hold for the UB.

Bariel does get a new shot of a 1-shot power that has already been used.

If Bariel inherits Kira's power, he will get the version that's already in the game, regardless of his alignment.

Neither the Ferengi nor the scum teams have daychat.

Bashir may not doctor and cop on the same night. When Bashir uses his doctor ability, it will prevent one nightkill. If two or more nightkills are directed at the target, they will still die.

Kai Winn can use her double vote one day per game and must use it publicly by typing "doublevote: Name". Once she does, she can use the commands "undoublevote" and "doublevote: different name" to move it around. It persists for the rest of the game day, but expires after that, whether or not she ended the day with it on a player.

Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux
Post by: Jimmmmm on January 25, 2019, 12:26:14 am
/in
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux
Post by: sudgy on January 25, 2019, 12:32:59 am
I remember the first run of this game going back when I played my first game.  It almost makes me want to play, but I have too much stuff going on.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux
Post by: Jimmmmm on January 25, 2019, 12:41:19 am
Odo -- flavor/role cop, falsely investigates as Changeling

Does this mean "Investigates as Changeling, falsely or otherwise"?

If he is, say, Maquis, will he return a negative result to the Maquis Cop?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on January 25, 2019, 01:31:04 am
A wise man can hear profit /in the wind.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux
Post by: LaLight on January 25, 2019, 02:11:39 am
Oh i remember read/ing this!
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux
Post by: jotheonah on January 25, 2019, 08:29:10 am
Odo -- flavor/role cop, falsely investigates as Changeling

Does this mean "Investigates as Changeling, falsely or otherwise"?

If he is, say, Maquis, will he return a negative result to the Maquis Cop?

Good question. The flavor is that different cops use different kinds of tests. Odo only gets a false positive on a blood test.

So he only investigates as Changeling when investigates by Bashir. OíBrien or Worf will get ďnot MUĒ or ďnot MaquisĒ (unless Odo is one of those things)

This is different than Gul Dukat, who will give a negative result to all cops regardless of his alignment.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux
Post by: Jimmmmm on January 25, 2019, 09:06:36 am
So he only investigates as Changeling when investigates by Bashir. OíBrien or Worf will get ďnot MUĒ or ďnot MaquisĒ (unless Odo is one of those things)

I may be being a tad pedantic, but I'm questioning the "falsely". He might happen to be a Changeling, in which case Bashir will correctly investigate him as Changeling. Correct?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux
Post by: jotheonah on January 25, 2019, 09:53:56 am
So he only investigates as Changeling when investigates by Bashir. OíBrien or Worf will get ďnot MUĒ or ďnot MaquisĒ (unless Odo is one of those things)

I may be being a tad pedantic, but I'm questioning the "falsely". He might happen to be a Changeling, in which case Bashir will correctly investigate him as Changeling. Correct?

(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/909/991/48c.jpg)

I'll edit the verbiage.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux
Post by: DatSwan on January 26, 2019, 02:26:00 am
o
m
g

Deep Space 9! Love the flavor

I am going to

/in

... but it is contingent upon the part about not starting it prior to the end of RMM51

Looks super fun!
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux
Post by: jotheonah on January 26, 2019, 10:11:38 am
I had another thought about the setup. Iím going to pick the scum configuration with 2 coin flips rather than randomly choosing two of three teams. I think itís better that itís 50/50 SK+scum or scumx2 rather than 33/66 so town doesnít get a ďdefault assumptionĒ.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux
Post by: mcmcsalot on January 26, 2019, 12:54:17 pm
/in
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux
Post by: Glooble on January 26, 2019, 04:17:15 pm
/in Unless youíd rather I co-mod with you.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux
Post by: jotheonah on January 26, 2019, 06:32:59 pm
/in Unless youíd rather I co-mod with you.

I think I need all the players I can get.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux
Post by: WestCoastDidds on January 27, 2019, 04:13:33 pm
/in
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux
Post by: mail-mi on January 27, 2019, 04:16:25 pm
/tag, may be able to help comod, definitely cannot play.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux
Post by: SpaceAnemone on January 27, 2019, 05:53:21 pm
/in

Loved DS9, so I really want to play. Maaaay have to duck out to avoid too many simultaneous commitments down the line.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux
Post by: shraeye on January 27, 2019, 06:37:35 pm
/in. Missed the first one by a bit.  Gotta do this
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux
Post by: arishipshape on January 29, 2019, 11:10:14 am
/in

Thanks for reminding me to watch DS9. I only watched the first few episodes and couldn't get into it, but I hear it's awesome
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (halfway filled! won't start til RMM51 wraps)
Post by: faust on January 30, 2019, 04:13:16 am
The SK in this setup seems super weak. Only 1-shot BP AND a guaranteed Cop against them? In a game of 18 players?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux
Post by: faust on January 30, 2019, 04:16:18 am
(Ferengi are a neighborhood. They will be mod-confirmed to not include a specific alignment. That can be the alignment that isn't in the game.)
Can you clarify how that works? The alignment not included will be posted in the QT? Is the alignment excluded chosen before picking the Ferengi or the other way around? And how will the excluded alignment be determined exactly?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux
Post by: jotheonah on January 30, 2019, 08:14:35 am
(Ferengi are a neighborhood. They will be mod-confirmed to not include a specific alignment. That can be the alignment that isn't in the game.)
Can you clarify how that works? The alignment not included will be posted in the QT? Is the alignment excluded chosen before picking the Ferengi or the other way around? And how will the excluded alignment be determined exactly?

Other way around. The Ferengi are chosen. Out of all the possible alignments not represented among them, including the one not in the game, one is chosen and they're all told about it.

The SK in this setup seems super weak. Only 1-shot BP AND a guaranteed Cop against them? In a game of 18 players?

I'm open to suggestions for buffing, but there aren't too many good ones. Strongman and Ninja do almost nothing in this setup.  I guess I could give them Loved or a 1-shot extra vote.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (halfway filled! won't start til RMM51 wraps)
Post by: jotheonah on January 30, 2019, 08:20:29 am
Keep in mind, Sk also has a dedicated miller which mitigates the effectiveness of the dedicated cop a bit. But actually thinking about it, maybe full bulletproof is the solution. Itís also somewhat flavorful, since changeligs are quite hard to kill.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (halfway filled! won't start til RMM51 wraps)
Post by: faust on January 30, 2019, 10:54:40 am
Keep in mind, Sk also has a dedicated miller which mitigates the effectiveness of the dedicated cop a bit. But actually thinking about it, maybe full bulletproof is the solution. Itís also somewhat flavorful, since changeligs are quite hard to kill.
It doesn't mitigate it quite as much when you consider that the SK cannot actually claim that role without being counterclaimed. I'd really want to give them something to avoid being exposed, because that is really really unfun. Maybe X-shot Commuter or something along those lines. Though in that case "No result" may still out them. Having an SK Cop just seems like a pretty bad idea, I'm not sure it can work.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (halfway filled! won't start til RMM51 wraps)
Post by: jotheonah on January 30, 2019, 11:36:06 am
Keep in mind, Sk also has a dedicated miller which mitigates the effectiveness of the dedicated cop a bit. But actually thinking about it, maybe full bulletproof is the solution. Itís also somewhat flavorful, since changeligs are quite hard to kill.
It doesn't mitigate it quite as much when you consider that the SK cannot actually claim that role without being counterclaimed. I'd really want to give them something to avoid being exposed, because that is really really unfun. Maybe X-shot Commuter or something along those lines. Though in that case "No result" may still out them. Having an SK Cop just seems like a pretty bad idea, I'm not sure it can work.

Hmmm. The heart of the setup really is the idea of three cops that each investigate a different faction, but only two of those factions are in the game. I think if I remove the SK cop it kind of kills the whole thing.

I'm not sure I agree with you. I mean, yes, if I'm the SK and I get SK-copped it really sucks. But it's not like that's a random event I have no control over. The SK needs to play in such a way that the cop doesn't target them, or they need to figure out who the cop is and kill them before they catch them. It's hard, but it's not impossible. And the first night, if they're bulletproof, they have a 1/17 chance of being investigated-- pretty good odds.

The other thing I could do is add more roles to the pool and have some roles not in the game. That makes fakeclaiming a little more possible. I would probably auto-include the main cops, but I could definitely put Odo on the rotating in and out list.

Also, other folks feel free to weigh in. I'm very open to feedback before the game starts, that's the beauty of an open setup.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (halfway filled! won't start til RMM51 wraps)
Post by: mail-mi on January 30, 2019, 02:23:28 pm
What if you give the SK 1 or 2 shots of active investigation immunity? They have to choose which night to use it,but if they choose right they get cleared?

Also yeah you're gonna need some more fake claims.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (halfway filled! won't start til RMM51 wraps)
Post by: jotheonah on January 30, 2019, 03:02:27 pm
Part of the whole point of the setup is to make fakeclaims not a thing. Since anyone can have any role, you can always just claim. I like the X-shot immunity idea, though that kind of makes Bashir pretty weak, since he can't even for sure rule people out.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (halfway filled! won't start til RMM51 wraps)
Post by: jotheonah on January 30, 2019, 03:08:00 pm
Ooh there's actually another big problem with the Miller thing in an open setup. If someone gets investigated as SK and claims Odo, the next question is who have you investigated (and what did you find) and then they're basically sunk. So that's actually sort of a big problem.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (halfway filled! won't start til RMM51 wraps)
Post by: shraeye on January 30, 2019, 11:14:01 pm
So...if I don't read the setup at all....would you say that's a disadvantage? advantage?  vantage?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (halfway filled! won't start til RMM51 wraps)
Post by: arishipshape on February 01, 2019, 11:05:07 am
/out
I'm actually gonna be kinda busy during the time this game should take place. If my schedule clears up I'll be in again. If i'm gonna play mafia, i'm gonna give it my all and be super active.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (halfway filled! won't start til RMM51 wraps)
Post by: MiX on February 01, 2019, 05:30:56 pm
I just played my first game of f.ds mafia. I cannot stop.

/in

I've never felt more alive.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (halfway filled! won't start til RMM51 wraps)
Post by: jotheonah on February 01, 2019, 05:42:45 pm
I've never felt more alive.

Ironic.

After much consideration, Iíve made the following changes: the changeling (SK) will gain full bulletproof and full strongman, neither of which will show up on odoís Investigation.

Dr. Bashir becomes an even-night SK cop but gains 1-shot doc.

I believe these changes should help give the serial killer a fighting chance, though it is still, as always, a challenging role to draw.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (halfway filled! won't start til RMM51 wraps)
Post by: mcmcsalot on February 04, 2019, 08:24:56 am
I just played my first game of f.ds mafia. I cannot stop.

/in

I've never felt more alive.

One..of..us..one..of..us..
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (halfway filled! won't start til RMM51 wraps)
Post by: ashersky on February 04, 2019, 09:21:46 am
Should I play?  I survived for a fairly long time in the first iteration ó donít recall my role but I was town.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (halfway filled! won't start til RMM51 wraps)
Post by: raerae on February 04, 2019, 02:56:51 pm
Should I play?  I survived for a fairly long time in the first iteration ó donít recall my role but I was town.

Do eeeetttttt
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (halfway filled! won't start til RMM51 wraps)
Post by: jotheonah on February 04, 2019, 03:16:57 pm
Should I play?  I survived for a fairly long time in the first iteration ó donít recall my role but I was town.

According to my notes, you were Worf! I'm sure you played with honor.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (halfway filled! won't start til RMM51 wraps)
Post by: shraeye on February 04, 2019, 10:13:17 pm
ooh, dibs on Worf!
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (halfway filled! won't start til RMM51 wraps)
Post by: faust on February 13, 2019, 03:46:17 am
It's about time to /in.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (halfway filled! won't start til RMM51 wraps)
Post by: ashersky on February 13, 2019, 10:00:56 am
Agreed. /in
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (halfway filled! won't start til RMM51 wraps)
Post by: 2.71828..... on February 14, 2019, 06:55:35 am
/in
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (halfway filled! won't start til RMM51 wraps)
Post by: Robz888 on February 16, 2019, 10:42:15 am
/in
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (4 spots left! won't start til RMM51 wraps)
Post by: jotheonah on February 18, 2019, 05:22:52 pm
We just need 4 more! (and for faust's game to end but I don't think we're too far off). Maybe we could get a Galzria? Or a raerae? Or someone's roommate/spouse/drinking buddy?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (4 spots left! won't start til RMM51 wraps)
Post by: Awaclus on February 20, 2019, 03:12:06 am
/in
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (4 spots left! won't start til RMM51 wraps)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on February 20, 2019, 08:11:08 am
Every time I see this thread, the DS9 soundtrack gets stuck in my head all over again.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (4 spots left! won't start til RMM51 wraps)
Post by: Glooble on February 20, 2019, 10:11:29 am
Trying to talk roommate into this. He's American but works the graveyard shift so he'd be online at the same time as the Europeans.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (4 spots left! won't start til RMM51 wraps)
Post by: Uncleeurope on February 20, 2019, 10:21:19 am
I have typed a reply here somewhere around six times, I have no idea how feasible it is to be in two games at once for me...

F/ine.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (4 spots left! won't start til RMM51 wraps)
Post by: jotheonah on February 20, 2019, 10:22:29 am
I have typed a reply here somewhere around six times, I have no idea how feasible it is to be in two games at once for me...

F/ine.

You never know until you try?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (4 spots left! won't start til RMM51 wraps)
Post by: jotheonah on February 20, 2019, 10:23:22 am
So it seems like everyone does individual QTs these days. Has private messaging for roles just fallen out of favor?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (4 spots left! won't start til RMM51 wraps)
Post by: 2.71828..... on February 20, 2019, 10:28:08 am
So it seems like everyone does individual QTs these days. Has private messaging for roles just fallen out of favor?

Yeah, it has. I think it is a lot easier to manage as a mod than getting a million PMs. And some people like to write their thoughts down somewhere other than in the thread (so scummy, I know).
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (4 spots left! won't start til RMM51 wraps)
Post by: raerae on February 20, 2019, 01:23:02 pm
Trying to talk roommate into this. He's American but works the graveyard shift so he'd be online at the same time as the Europeans.

If you're roommate /ins then I will too. Obviously this should have enormous bearing on their decision.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (4 spots left! won't start til RMM51 wraps)
Post by: raerae on February 20, 2019, 01:23:25 pm
Trying to talk roommate into this. He's American but works the graveyard shift so he'd be online at the same time as the Europeans.

If you're roommate /ins then I will too. Obviously this should have enormous bearing on their decision.

*Your, ugh
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (2 spots left!)
Post by: mcmcsalot on February 20, 2019, 01:27:59 pm
So I just reread the setup, Iím really really excited for this game. Itís feels like a lot of fun/activity while being quite balanced.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (2 spots left!)
Post by: MiX on February 20, 2019, 01:49:43 pm
/in

You wrote it. It was meant to be.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (2 spots left!)
Post by: Uncleeurope on February 20, 2019, 02:26:44 pm
/in

You wrote it. It was meant to be.

Itís too late for her now, sheís trapped.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (2 spots left!)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on February 20, 2019, 04:06:23 pm
C'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon!
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (2 spots left!)
Post by: raerae on February 20, 2019, 04:11:04 pm
It's a twofer if The Gloobs' roomie joins.  Fill the spots, get some awesome folks, start the game.  It's. Perfect.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (2 spots left!)
Post by: Chickenwarlord on February 20, 2019, 09:13:20 pm
Sure, I'm in.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (2 spots left!)
Post by: jotheonah on February 20, 2019, 09:16:13 pm
Chicken warlord is almost certainly Gloobleís roommate, so raerae I guess youíre in. Hopefully you and shraeye can handle being in the game together with the two-year-old.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (2 spots left!)
Post by: raerae on February 20, 2019, 09:54:32 pm
Chicken warlord is almost certainly Gloobleís roommate, so raerae I guess youíre in. Hopefully you and shraeye can handle being in the game together with the two-year-old.

We could never handle it without the two year old.  This will go well.

/in
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Full! PMs coming soon)
Post by: jotheonah on February 20, 2019, 10:34:31 pm
Ok well. Please re-read the setup information as I have been tinkering with it this whole time and parts of it may have changed.

I don't know/remember how to move this thing into the Mafia Games thread, so I would be grateful if ashersky could assist me in that endeavor. I will send out role PMs with QT links soon (like, in the next couple of days). I will post again here once they're out, and then once everyone confirms Night 0 will begin. If you are /inned and can no longer commit, PM me.

If you are interested in being my co-mod, PM me at any time.

Thread locked.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Full! PMs coming soon)
Post by: gkrieg13 on February 21, 2019, 02:03:19 pm
I'm going on vacation, starting in a week and lasting for 10 days.  I would happily sub in at that time.

To move the thread, you go to the bottom of the thread and click the move topic button on the left.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Full! PMs coming soon)
Post by: jotheonah on February 21, 2019, 03:02:44 pm
Thanks!
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: jotheonah on February 21, 2019, 10:24:30 pm
PMs are out! Please confirm in your QT, even if I accidentally said to confirm in thread in your PM.

Night 0 has begun, though no one has night 0 actions so that doesn't really mean anything.

Anyway, Day 1 will begin Saturday, February 23rd at 8:00 am forum time, unless a certain number of people request a later start in their QTs.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: jotheonah on February 22, 2019, 02:47:13 pm
Everyone has confirmed and not enough people requested a later start, so the game will start 8 am tomorrow as planned.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: jotheonah on February 22, 2019, 03:17:21 pm
Some clarifications about the Universal Backup role (Bariel), just as an FYI:

The Universal Backup inherits only the powers tied to the flavor name. They would not inherit the SK's bonus powers. They would inherit whichever power Kira has this game (even if that would result in a scum vigilante or a town bulletproof). They do not inherit Odo's flavor-based Miller ability.

They do get a new charge if a 1-shot power has already been used.

The Universal Backup cannot inherit Jake Sisko's IC power, regardless of whether they are town or scum. If Jake dies first, Bariel will instead gain the power of the next player to die.

Finally, if for whatever reason two players die simultaneously, the UB inherits a power at random.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: jotheonah on February 23, 2019, 07:31:58 am
https://www.youtube.com/embed/DsOE73pxpys



"Well, you're nobody til somebody loves you
So find yourself somebody to love!"

As Vic Fontaine finishes his set, Miles O'Brien and Julian Bashir stand up and applaud.

"Wouldn't it be great?" Julian asks Miles "Living in this time, in this place?"

"I don't know, Julian. As much fun as the holosuite is, if this were really Las Vegas in the 50s, it wouldn't be so relaxing. You know the mob ran this town."

"The mob?" asks the young doctor.

"As in mafia, kid," Vic says, joining them at the bar. "As in wakin' up with a horse head in your bed if you piss off the wrong guy. And never knowing for sure who the wrong guy is."

"Thank God we don't have to worry about that," O'Brien says sarcastically, finishing his drink. "We just have to worry about Changeling inflitrators, Mirror Universe doubles, and Maquis spies. Did you get a special assignment from the Captain too?"

"I'm actually not supposed to talk about it," Julian says. "But do me a favor and stop by the infirmary later today. I just remembered I need to redo some of your blood work..."


Day One has begun

Not voting (18): Jimmmmm, UmbrageOfSnow, LaLight, DatSwan, mcmcsalot, Glooble, WestCoastDidds, SpaceAnemone, Shraeye, MiX, faust, ashersky, 2.71828....., Robz888, Awaclus, Uncleeurope, raerae, chickenwarlord

With 18 alive, it takes 10 to lynch most players.

Thread unlocked



Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: mcmcsalot on February 23, 2019, 08:14:43 am
First! vote:raerae because I can!
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: MiX on February 23, 2019, 08:15:16 am
And so it begins. Great opening joth!

Being an open setup, there's a lot of things to say about this game...things that might not be optimal to say right now, so I'll stay quiet, for now.

What a line-up! So many competent players, compared to them I'm an ant...

But first, chickenwarlord, can you make a signature or put your Shuffle iT name? That'll make rereading easier.

Of everyone here, I know who's a threat: Vote: Robz888, you're supposed to be good as scum, right? Well let's test that.

I have things I want to say to people but that'll break the rules, however this won't: Awaclus, I admire your mafia skills, please teach me how to play like you.

That is all. Let the game commence! So excited!

PPE 1: Dammit!
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: Glooble on February 23, 2019, 08:18:14 am
I need to find a quote from the last game to put as my sig.

I am going to go ahead and vote: Awaclus because I was right last game, dammit, and no one believed me!
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: Awaclus on February 23, 2019, 08:18:58 am
I need to find a quote from the last game to put as my sig.

I am going to go ahead and vote: Awaclus because I was right last game, dammit, and no one believed me!

Well you're wrong this time.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: Glooble on February 23, 2019, 08:29:31 am
I need to find a quote from the last game to put as my sig.

I am going to go ahead and vote: Awaclus because I was right last game, dammit, and no one believed me!

Well you're wrong this time.

Weíll see.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: 2.71828..... on February 23, 2019, 08:35:22 am
Vote: LaLight

This will be 3 scum games in a row, right?

M120, RMM51, and this game. They are on a streak! You can beat WW's streak, I know it!
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: faust on February 23, 2019, 08:48:36 am
Vote: LaLight

This will be 3 scum games in a row, right?

M120, RMM51, and this game. They are on a streak! You can beat WW's streak, I know it!
Something something ongoing game.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: faust on February 23, 2019, 08:49:40 am
I need to find a quote from the last game to put as my sig.

I am going to go ahead and vote: Awaclus because I was right last game, dammit, and no one believed me!

Well you're wrong this time.
How ironic coming from you.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: faust on February 23, 2019, 08:55:30 am
I think Gul Dukat should claim.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: Awaclus on February 23, 2019, 08:59:43 am
I need to find a quote from the last game to put as my sig.

I am going to go ahead and vote: Awaclus because I was right last game, dammit, and no one believed me!

Well you're wrong this time.
How ironic coming from you.

How is that ironic coming from me?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: faust on February 23, 2019, 09:02:07 am
I need to find a quote from the last game to put as my sig.

I am going to go ahead and vote: Awaclus because I was right last game, dammit, and no one believed me!

Well you're wrong this time.
How ironic coming from you.

How is that ironic coming from me?
I remember you for a long time always opening with a silverspawn vote because he was scum in Futuramafia. Now Glooble does the same to you.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: MiX on February 23, 2019, 09:06:49 am
I think Gul Dukat should claim.

I think everyone should claim to be (or not to be) hated at L-2. I don't see the advantage of outing a non-cop instantly.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: Glooble on February 23, 2019, 09:12:18 am
I think Gul Dukat should claim.

I think everyone should claim to be (or not to be) hated at L-2. I don't see the advantage of outing a non-cop instantly.

Why would you out a cop instantly?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: faust on February 23, 2019, 09:14:01 am
I think Gul Dukat should claim.

I think everyone should claim to be (or not to be) hated at L-2. I don't see the advantage of outing a non-cop instantly.
The advantage is that we guarantee that no Cop wastes their shot on a useless target.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: faust on February 23, 2019, 09:14:52 am
For the same reason we probably want an instant IC reveal.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: MiX on February 23, 2019, 09:27:09 am
For the same reason we probably want an instant IC reveal.

To get him killed instantly? But then I guess cops don't drop dead, huh...

Essencially, we get more results from cops, but cops die sooner...not sure if that's a good tradeoff.

I'll need to think about this...
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: Glooble on February 23, 2019, 09:30:47 am
For the same reason we probably want an instant IC reveal.

To get him killed instantly? But then I guess cops don't drop dead, huh...

Essencially, we get more results from cops, but cops die sooner...not sure if that's a good tradeoff.

I'll need to think about this...

Keep in mind we only have a 1-shot doctor, who might be scum, and maybe a 1-shot bus driver (who also might be scum.) Thatís not a lot of protective roles to protect anyone who might claim.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: faust on February 23, 2019, 09:34:36 am
For the same reason we probably want an instant IC reveal.

To get him killed instantly? But then I guess cops don't drop dead, huh...

Essencially, we get more results from cops, but cops die sooner...not sure if that's a good tradeoff.

I'll need to think about this...

Keep in mind we only have a 1-shot doctor, who might be scum, and maybe a 1-shot bus driver (who also might be scum.) Thatís not a lot of protective roles to protect anyone who might claim.
Hence my being less sure about the IC thing. We don't need to discuss that; they can just decide on their own. But Gul Dukat does not need to be protected, so that is definitely a good claim.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: mcmcsalot on February 23, 2019, 09:38:38 am
Okay

Gul Dukat - hated godfather, non alignment indicative
Jake Sisko - Triggerable IC

Pros of Gul claiming are cops donít waste target.
Cons of Gul claiming are if town he is probably left alive for scum to kill in lylo.
18 people (17 targets) with 4 cops means each cop has a 5.88% chance of hitting him.
Iím not sure the pro is actually worth the con day one based on the small changes of him getting hit. Overall I think itís a low pro and a low con so we are not making a mistake either way. Maybe If Gul think there is any chance they are going to be an investigations target at the end of the day they should claim.

Pros of Jake claiming are we get an IC day on and cops donít waste an investigative target, also Jake becomes go to night kill and protects cops.
Cons of Jake claiming are simply he fact that the longer we wait the more helpful an IC can be.
I think this obtains max cost/benefit at on Day 2. There is a chance a cop has a result in day 2 creating a decision for scum to make. We will have a lynch and information for Jake to help us work through.

So I think Gull claim if they are potentially a target and Jake claim tomorrow.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: shraeye on February 23, 2019, 09:39:16 am
I think Gul Dukat should claim.

I think everyone should claim to be (or not to be) hated at L-2. I don't see the advantage of outing a non-cop instantly.
The advantage is that we guarantee that no Cop wastes their shot on a useless target.
Why is Gul Dukat a useless target?  He's not the IC.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: Glooble on February 23, 2019, 09:40:48 am
For the same reason we probably want an instant IC reveal.

To get him killed instantly? But then I guess cops don't drop dead, huh...

Essencially, we get more results from cops, but cops die sooner...not sure if that's a good tradeoff.

I'll need to think about this...

Keep in mind we only have a 1-shot doctor, who might be scum, and maybe a 1-shot bus driver (who also might be scum.) Thatís not a lot of protective roles to protect anyone who might claim.
Hence my being less sure about the IC thing. We don't need to discuss that; they can just decide on their own. But Gul Dukat does not need to be protected, so that is definitely a good claim.

True. Letís also keep in mind the possibility of a scum double-voter when putting someone to L-2, though the fact that they have to announce the double vote publicly probably keeps scum from using that power early in the game.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: Glooble on February 23, 2019, 09:41:41 am
I think Gul Dukat should claim.

I think everyone should claim to be (or not to be) hated at L-2. I don't see the advantage of outing a non-cop instantly.
The advantage is that we guarantee that no Cop wastes their shot on a useless target.
Why is Gul Dukat a useless target?  He's not the IC.

Heís a useless target because heís a Godfather. Heíll investigate as station-aligned no matter what.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: shraeye on February 23, 2019, 09:46:24 am
Oooh, missed the part after the parenthesis in the rules; focused too much on hated.  Sooo, yeah....guess that's not my role....#wifom

But I fully agree that each town should decide for themselves the best time to claim.  There isn't much point in discussing these things too hard.  RVS is random voting stage, not really verbose strategizing.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: faust on February 23, 2019, 09:48:42 am
But I fully agree that each town should decide for themselves the best time to claim.  There isn't much point in discussing these things too hard.  RVS is random voting stage, not really verbose strategizing.
RVS is bullshit.

Also sure town roles can decide this for themselves. But how do we know that Gul is town? Scum needs to be forced to make that claim.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: mcmcsalot on February 23, 2019, 09:53:19 am
But I fully agree that each town should decide for themselves the best time to claim.  There isn't much point in discussing these things too hard.  RVS is random voting stage, not really verbose strategizing.
RVS is bullshit.

Also sure town roles can decide this for themselves. But how do we know that Gul is town? Scum needs to be forced to make that claim.

Do we care is scum!gull claims or not? A claimed Gull is not going to be treated any different than all other players alignment wise. Thus claiming Gull at L-anything shouldnít change our want to lynch them at all. The only town pro we get for any alignment Gull claiming is so they donít get copped. And the only town con is if Gull is town scum will not want to kill them to be able to abuse them in mylo. In fact scum can kinda force town to lynch Gull eventually or risk losing in the event Gull is town.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: shraeye on February 23, 2019, 09:55:35 am
But I fully agree that each town should decide for themselves the best time to claim.  There isn't much point in discussing these things too hard.  RVS is random voting stage, not really verbose strategizing.
RVS is bullshit.

Also sure town roles can decide this for themselves. But how do we know that Gul is town? Scum needs to be forced to make that claim.
Yeah, I agree on RVS. 

I don't see how getting Gul to claim is particularly damning if it's scum.   Like, obviously getting scum to claim any role would be good because A) they can't counterclaim in the future and B) we'd know who scum is.

So yeah, town should decide when to claim for themselves.  Scum, you all need to claim right now.  #winning
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: Glooble on February 23, 2019, 09:57:41 am
RVS is random voting stage, not really verbose strategizing.

Love the joke, disagree with the premise. Itís all about encouraging conversation so we have something to analyze later when we have more information. Plus every so often scum trips up, which is more likely with more talking.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: mcmcsalot on February 23, 2019, 09:58:43 am
Oh I missed the town benefit of scum!gull claiming by locking them into a gull claim. That may tip the scales in favor of gull claiming.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: shraeye on February 23, 2019, 10:00:50 am
RVS is random voting stage, not really verbose strategizing.

Love the joke, disagree with the premise. Itís all about encouraging conversation so we have something to analyze later when we have more information. Plus every so often scum trips up, which is more likely with more talking.

I really just said that for the joke, plus a soft emphasis on "let's stop making shraeye accidently claim not-X".

I'm all for talking.  And the hashtags.  #important
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: shraeye on February 23, 2019, 10:01:45 am
Oh I missed the town benefit of scum!gull claiming by locking them into a gull claim. That may tip the scales in favor of gull claiming.
Are you serious?!  My "it's not worth it" post makes you think it's worth it.  #backfire #facepalm

Disregard mcmcs, he's not right.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: mcmcsalot on February 23, 2019, 10:11:41 am
Oh I missed the town benefit of scum!gull claiming by locking them into a gull claim. That may tip the scales in favor of gull claiming.
Are you serious?!  My "it's not worth it" post makes you think it's worth it.  #backfire #facepalm

Disregard mcmcs, he's not right.

I said maybe, the pro of potentially locking scum into a claim as well as the pro of not wasting a cop shot on Gull, as well as the pro of not accidentally clearing an unclaimed scum!gull who lies. Might outweigh the con of forcing us to think about lynching gull later in the game due to the numbers.

Iím not convinced either way but there are more pros than I initially thought.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: mcmcsalot on February 23, 2019, 10:14:31 am
Also important to note that all cops arenít guaranteed to be town so the chances that a town!cop hits gull is pretty low.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: faust on February 23, 2019, 10:19:03 am
Also important to note that all cops arenít guaranteed to be town so the chances that a town!cop hits gull is pretty low.
Yeah but it doesn't really matter for us whether a town Cop hits scum or a scum Cop hits other scum.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: mcmcsalot on February 23, 2019, 10:27:38 am
Also important to note that all cops arenít guaranteed to be town so the chances that a town!cop hits gull is pretty low.
Yeah but it doesn't really matter for us whether a town Cop hits scum or a scum Cop hits other scum.

True
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: MiX on February 23, 2019, 10:49:09 am
I highly doubt scum wants to fake claim...maybe temporarily, but eventually everyone can confirm everything anyway.

Remember that Gul can't be quicklynched if there's only 1 scum, so there's that. Overall I'm pretty sure Gul should claim...but I want to hear from others.

Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: Robz888 on February 23, 2019, 10:54:06 am
Wow this is a big game.

I donít really have an opinion on those two roles claiming.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: 2.71828..... on February 23, 2019, 11:14:55 am
shraeye seems like town.

Have I played with you before?  I forget. 

Also, what is the whole big deal for someone claiming D1?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: mcmcsalot on February 23, 2019, 11:24:38 am
shraeye seems like town.

Have I played with you before?  I forget. 

Also, what is the whole big deal for someone claiming D1?

What??? Well that makes me feel old
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: 2.71828..... on February 23, 2019, 11:28:57 am
shraeye seems like town.

Have I played with you before?  I forget. 

Also, what is the whole big deal for someone claiming D1?

What??? Well that makes me feel old

yeah, my first game was M33.  Or actually MXXXIII since we still used roman numerals.  And then I missed shraeye in Adventure Time....so I don't think I have played with them?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: faust on February 23, 2019, 11:30:09 am
Vote: e
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: 2.71828..... on February 23, 2019, 11:31:23 am
But actually I am right between you and Robz for age, so you aren't that old.  Just been on f.ds longer playing mafia.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: 2.71828..... on February 23, 2019, 11:32:09 am
Vote: e

vote: faust

for doubting my shraeye read.  They are basically an IC.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: Uncleeurope on February 23, 2019, 11:46:01 am
Darn everything, I was planning on just coming out of the gate claiming Gul, but now because you people talked about it so much, it is much less exciting.

I claim Gul.

I am pretty sure it is the correct play as well.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: faust on February 23, 2019, 11:47:17 am
Neat. Vote: Eddie
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: 2.71828..... on February 23, 2019, 11:49:28 am
Neat. Vote: Eddie

who is Eddie?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: faust on February 23, 2019, 11:49:52 am
Right, no, I forgot we have to wait a day.

Hmm. Back to vote: e

PPE: Eddie = Uncleeurope.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: 2.71828..... on February 23, 2019, 11:51:45 am
Right, no, I forgot we have to wait a day.

Hmm. Back to vote: e

PPE: Eddie = Uncleeurope.

See, I told you we should be voting faust
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: mcmcsalot on February 23, 2019, 12:48:57 pm
Right, no, I forgot we have to wait a day.

Hmm. Back to vote: e

PPE: Eddie = Uncleeurope.

See, I told you we should be voting faust

I disagree and will also vote: europe
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on February 23, 2019, 01:05:24 pm
Hi! Hi! Hi! Hi! Hi!

Iím at a conference in Seattle for work this weekend, so Iím not going to be present in any real way until Tuesday.

I read the OG version of the game on the plane last night. Holy cow...Day 1 was like 2 weeks long. 50 pages! Iím glad yíall cut that ish down before I got here.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: faust on February 23, 2019, 01:54:08 pm
Right, no, I forgot we have to wait a day.

Hmm. Back to vote: e

PPE: Eddie = Uncleeurope.

See, I told you we should be voting faust

I disagree and will also vote: europe
If we lynch him today, the Universal Backup will inherit the Hated Godfather. We do not want that.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: raerae on February 23, 2019, 02:09:44 pm
Quote from: mcmcsalot link=topic=194 59.msg789804#msg789804 date=1550927683
First! vote:raerae because I can!

 :-*  :-*  :-*

Right back attcha!

Vote: mcmc
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on February 23, 2019, 02:12:49 pm
I need to find a quote from the last game to put as my sig.

I am going to go ahead and vote: Awaclus because I was right last game, dammit, and no one believed me!

I know I had some activity problems there, but not getting voted by any of the people using this logic makes me a bit sad.

Also, I've been thinking I need a good sig quote too, when I ISO players a lot of people have really fun things to search "potato," "Joth is useless, "UncleEurope."
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on February 23, 2019, 02:16:18 pm
Neat. Vote: Eddie

Vote: faust

I've come to appreciate RVS but I get the RVS is lame argument, used to feel that way too but now I kind of like it. Which is why I'm a bit sad this is a totally serious vote.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: Uncleeurope on February 23, 2019, 02:18:57 pm
Vote: Snow

Nice to be in a game with you again, bro.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on February 23, 2019, 02:23:25 pm
I do like Dukat claiming, now I don't have to argue about it though.

Also we obviously can't control when people claim, but faust, shraeye and others (and Joth in the Ancillary game) are really pushing this thing where it's all up to the town. Obvious it is up to the individual players but it is very much worth discussing. I was serious when I said I thought it had hurt town in Ancillary Mafia, the only thing I was lying about there was being upset about it.

This game is open so for the new players, scum have no value in fake claiming here, since every single one of us has a unique name from a known list. Towns lately seem to love randomly claiming their roles at L-4 or whatever and it's hugely anti-town. Even if your role is not a likely NK target, you narrow the pool of targets for the roles scum are looking for and it hurts everyone else.

Mafia is a team game, and decisions each player makes effect their whole team.

I don't know where this argument is coming from, but multiple players across multiple games are saying things with similar language so it's getting to be kind of a meme and I really think it's bad play that we should clamp down on.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on February 23, 2019, 02:24:10 pm
Also, Shraeye, just sit out the theory talk so you don't soft not-X info if you want, but with this setup we're going to need to talk theory at certain points, especially after claims.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on February 23, 2019, 02:28:52 pm
Vote: Snow

Nice to be in a game with you again, bro.

Yeah, I'm looking forward to getting super paranoid about you D2.

I was thinking when I came in I'd open with jokey stuff about you and then I got sucked into serious mode after 1 post.  Really glad you signed up for this game, even if you haven't seen BestTrek. I sat down and watched the whole opening video before reading the game I love it so much. But if I'm going to talk you into a new old scifi show, it should probably be Farscape.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: Awaclus on February 23, 2019, 02:36:03 pm
I do like Dukat claiming, now I don't have to argue about it though.

Also we obviously can't control when people claim, but faust, shraeye and others (and Joth in the Ancillary game) are really pushing this thing where it's all up to the town. Obvious it is up to the individual players but it is very much worth discussing. I was serious when I said I thought it had hurt town in Ancillary Mafia, the only thing I was lying about there was being upset about it.

This game is open so for the new players, scum have no value in fake claiming here, since every single one of us has a unique name from a known list. Towns lately seem to love randomly claiming their roles at L-4 or whatever and it's hugely anti-town. Even if your role is not a likely NK target, you narrow the pool of targets for the roles scum are looking for and it hurts everyone else.

Mafia is a team game, and decisions each player makes effect their whole team.

I don't know where this argument is coming from, but multiple players across multiple games are saying things with similar language so it's getting to be kind of a meme and I really think it's bad play that we should clamp down on.

In RMM51, it definitely helped scum a ton that a lot of information was available and that a lot of it was true. We were able to make very informed decisions most nights.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on February 23, 2019, 02:36:08 pm
Advice for Jake
While I'm telling people what to do, Jake should absolutely hold off on triggering until at least the day he thinks he's going to be lynched. It would help to trigger it earlier in the day, not like when the wagon is L-1 or something, but sometimes you go into a night thinking "I'm so obvtown, I'm totally going to eat the kill" and if you live that night, we're better served by not having triggered the IC ability.

Eventually most people get suspected again no matter how widely townread they were earlier on, and when you feel the game shifting in that direction, I think that's the time to trigger it, enough time left in the Day that the ability is useful but not so early in the game as to have been useless because you were being townread anyway. Because with the weak protections in the game, and the possibility of them being scum, Jake is very likely to die the night after he goes off.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on February 23, 2019, 02:37:33 pm
In RMM51, it definitely helped scum a ton that a lot of information was available and that a lot of it was true. We were able to make very informed decisions most nights.

Yeah, and I think some of the most useful bits of information were what players not to worry too much about. Which is even more true here since the setup is open
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on February 23, 2019, 02:38:17 pm
While we're on the subject, I'd totally have made the previous post as Jake.

WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: mcmcsalot on February 23, 2019, 02:56:27 pm
Right, no, I forgot we have to wait a day.

Hmm. Back to vote: e

PPE: Eddie = Uncleeurope.

See, I told you we should be voting faust

I disagree and will also vote: europe
If we lynch him today, the Universal Backup will inherit the Hated Godfather. We do not want that.
right unvote
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: Glooble on February 23, 2019, 03:01:51 pm
Hi! Hi! Hi! Hi! Hi!

Iím at a conference in Seattle for work this weekend, so Iím not going to be present in any real way until Tuesday.

I read the OG version of the game on the plane last night. Holy cow...Day 1 was like 2 weeks long. 50 pages! Iím glad yíall cut that ish down before I got here.

My favorite part was when yuma claimed he hadn't used the role he was lying about having because he accidentally e-mailed the mod's old e-mail address that he never checks and people actually bought it.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: shraeye on February 23, 2019, 03:17:41 pm
I've come to appreciate RVS but I get the RVS is lame argument, used to feel that way too but now I kind of like it. Which is why I'm a bit sad this is a totally serious vote.
Dude, like NOTHING has happened.  We aren't at serious-vote stage yet, that's absurd.

Mafia is a team game, and decisions each player makes effect their whole team.
Yeah, but I trust in my own ability to work what is best for the whole town and not pick bad options only because they save myself for a bit.  It seems that the whole basis for your "let me tell you what you should do" post is that other players are too short-sighted to figure out what seems immediately bad for them versus what is long-term bad for town.  A) that's wrong and B) that's rude.

Also, Shraeye, just sit out the theory talk so you don't soft not-X info if you want, but with this setup we're going to need to talk theory at certain points, especially after claims.
Like, literally, this.  I can make that decision for myself. #sarcasticthanks
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: 2.71828..... on February 23, 2019, 03:29:16 pm
I've come to appreciate RVS but I get the RVS is lame argument, used to feel that way too but now I kind of like it. Which is why I'm a bit sad this is a totally serious vote.
Dude, like NOTHING has happened.  We aren't at serious-vote stage yet, that's absurd.

Mafia is a team game, and decisions each player makes effect their whole team.
Yeah, but I trust in my own ability to work what is best for the whole town and not pick bad options only because they save myself for a bit.  It seems that the whole basis for your "let me tell you what you should do" post is that other players are too short-sighted to figure out what seems immediately bad for them versus what is long-term bad for town.  A) that's wrong and B) that's rude.

Also, Shraeye, just sit out the theory talk so you don't soft not-X info if you want, but with this setup we're going to need to talk theory at certain points, especially after claims.
Like, literally, this.  I can make that decision for myself. #sarcasticthanks

I trust you to make the right decision, you are basically conf!town at this point
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: 2.71828..... on February 23, 2019, 03:30:13 pm
Speaking of the right decision, more people should vote faust. If they actually turn out scum then I am basically an IC
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: raerae on February 23, 2019, 03:40:37 pm
I've come to appreciate RVS but I get the RVS is lame argument, used to feel that way too but now I kind of like it. Which is why I'm a bit sad this is a totally serious vote.
Dude, like NOTHING has happened.  We aren't at serious-vote stage yet, that's absurd.

Guess again!
Vote: shraeye
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: faust on February 23, 2019, 04:11:25 pm
Speaking of the right decision, more people should vote faust. If they actually turn out scum then I am basically an IC
You should try this on someone else if you want to become an IC.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: faust on February 23, 2019, 04:17:18 pm
Also we obviously can't control when people claim, but faust, shraeye and others (and Joth in the Ancillary game) are really pushing this thing where it's all up to the town. Obvious it is up to the individual players but it is very much worth discussing. I was serious when I said I thought it had hurt town in Ancillary Mafia, the only thing I was lying about there was being upset about it.
The main problem in discussing it is that invariably people will drop hints about whether they are the role in question etc. That kind of half-info is the worst we can do, but on the other hand, it is kind of impossible to get to a town consensus without going through revealing discussion.

So I advocate townies deciding for themselves. They may make the wrong decision, but at least that means that at the end of the day, I get to yell at them and blame them for losing the game for us if they do.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: 2.71828..... on February 23, 2019, 04:29:51 pm
Speaking of the right decision, more people should vote faust. If they actually turn out scum then I am basically an IC
You should try this on someone else if you want to become an IC.

Back at you
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on February 23, 2019, 04:46:52 pm
They may make the wrong decision, but at least that means that at the end of the day, I get to yell at them and blame them for losing the game for us if they do.

I get tired of yelling though.

But seriously, I think it really needs saying given the rash of unnecessary and kind of bad claims lately surrounded by most of the yelling being "Everyone can decide for themselves, stop telling me what to do, ya jerk. By the way, I'm a VT."
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on February 23, 2019, 04:54:00 pm
Dude, like NOTHING has happened.  We aren't at serious-vote stage yet, that's absurd.
In that daily effort in which intelligence and passion mingle and delight each other, the absurd man discovers reads that will make up the greatest of his strengths.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on February 23, 2019, 04:58:00 pm
Yeah, but I trust in my own ability to work what is best for the whole town and not pick bad options only because they save myself for a bit.  It seems that the whole basis for your "let me tell you what you should do" post is that other players are too short-sighted to figure out what seems immediately bad for them versus what is long-term bad for town.  A) that's wrong and B) that's rude.

I'm not even talking about bad choices that save yourself, and I'm not explicitly talking about you. I'm talking about bad choices that don't even serve a purpose. Collectively towns don't act in the best interest of town all the time, and it feels like there's this movement for everyone to just be chill with that.

I'm not sorry about being rude, because the alternative is to keep patting people on the back for making suboptimal decisions and not thinking things through, because that's their right as players.

The only consequence for bad claims is getting picked on about it a bit, and I think we need to do a bit more of that.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on February 23, 2019, 04:59:41 pm
Like the only reason I'm even saying this is people keep jumping up to say "It's okay, town can just claim at whatever dumb time they want and anyone telling them otherwise is a big dumb jerk."

Won't anyone think of the big dumb jerks?

Anyway, care to guess why I voted for faust?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: MiX on February 23, 2019, 05:11:18 pm
Anyway, care to guess why I voted for faust?

You missed the fact that he unvoted Uncle, didn't you?

Now, serious talk: anyone who knows Robz's meta, does he analyze setups? Does he like to break setups? Is he usually good at theory talk in general?

So, uncle claimed...well that makes him unlynchable, so he might as well be the IC for this day, right?

Vote: raerae, I happen to like e's reason to townread shraeye, and your vote seems like a good way to not play RVS, since he's not dying today.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: raerae on February 23, 2019, 05:14:08 pm
Anyway, care to guess why I voted for faust?

You missed the fact that he unvoted Uncle, didn't you?

Now, serious talk: anyone who knows Robz's meta, does he analyze setups? Does he like to break setups? Is he usually good at theory talk in general?

So, uncle claimed...well that makes him unlynchable, so he might as well be the IC for this day, right?

Vote: raerae, I happen to like e's reason to townread shraeye, and your vote seems like a good way to not play RVS, since he's not dying today.

And why can't shraeye be our lunch today? He seems just as on the table as everybody else?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: MiX on February 23, 2019, 05:18:47 pm
I think Gul Dukat should claim.

I think everyone should claim to be (or not to be) hated at L-2. I don't see the advantage of outing a non-cop instantly.

Why would you out a cop instantly?

I feel like I should answer this: just because I said I didn't see the advantage of outing a non-cop doesn't mean I saw an advantage in outing cops: we were talking about Gul, and we know that he's not a cop.

PPE 1: Because I have an uncanny ability to see the future; with this, I can predict that e won't flip his townread, and I expect to strenghten mine as well. I might be reading too much into this, being early D1 and all, but I use all information we have available.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: Glooble on February 23, 2019, 05:22:31 pm
UoS has a good point. Like, it goes without saying that when to claim is up to each individual player. And regardless of what you think about claiming in general, this particular game is set up in such a way as to make claiming much, much more useful for scum than it is for town. Because role has almost no impact on alignment. So scum knowing where the power roles are is very, very good for them, sinc they can take out the most powerful town. Town knowing people's roles is especially unhelpful because it doesn't actually help us catch scum at all.

Dukat was arguably an exception because hated is a good thing to know about so you don't accidentally hammer someone and I guess it helps cops to not waste a shot. But any additional claims are just going to help scum get more useful night kills. So let's not do that.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: 2.71828..... on February 23, 2019, 05:23:51 pm
Anyway, care to guess why I voted for faust?

You missed the fact that he unvoted Uncle, didn't you?

Now, serious talk: anyone who knows Robz's meta, does he analyze setups? Does he like to break setups? Is he usually good at theory talk in general?

So, uncle claimed...well that makes him unlynchable, so he might as well be the IC for this day, right?

Vote: raerae, I happen to like e's reason to townread shraeye, and your vote seems like a good way to not play RVS, since he's not dying today.

What was my reason that shraeye is town?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: Glooble on February 23, 2019, 05:25:25 pm
I think Gul Dukat should claim.

I think everyone should claim to be (or not to be) hated at L-2. I don't see the advantage of outing a non-cop instantly.

Why would you out a cop instantly?

I feel like I should answer this: just because I said I didn't see the advantage of outing a non-cop doesn't mean I saw an advantage in outing cops: we were talking about Gul, and we know that he's not a cop.

PPE 1: Because I have an uncanny ability to see the future; with this, I can predict that e won't flip his townread, and I expect to strenghten mine as well. I might be reading too much into this, being early D1 and all, but I use all information we have available.

That doesn't really answer my question. The way you worded this implies that there's a perfectly logical reason to out a cop right away, and I'm struggling to see when that would ever be a good idea, especially in a setup where town has so few protective roles, possibly even none.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: MiX on February 23, 2019, 05:28:29 pm
Anyway, care to guess why I voted for faust?
Vote: raerae, I happen to like e's reason to townread shraeye, and your vote seems like a good way to not play RVS, since he's not dying today.

What was my reason that shraeye is town?

There are no masons, no cop results, and I doubt this is partner interaction. Thus I believe that you have a genuine townread.

Mine is him soft-claiming not Gul feeling very casual, that and his general jokey-ness, which I believe comes from town!shraeye, based on previous games I read.

Any questions?

PPE 1: There are no advantages of outing a cop. There are also no advantages of outing a non-cop. Please state if you wish for me to clarify.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: mcmcsalot on February 23, 2019, 05:45:42 pm
Speaking of the right decision, more people should vote faust. If they actually turn out scum then I am basically an IC
this is backwards thinking vote: E
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: DatSwan on February 23, 2019, 05:53:23 pm
Hey everyone.
Weekend prod dodge.
Will dive in tomorrow.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: mcmcsalot on February 23, 2019, 05:54:30 pm
I think Gul Dukat should claim.

I think everyone should claim to be (or not to be) hated at L-2. I don't see the advantage of outing a non-cop instantly.

Why would you out a cop instantly?

I feel like I should answer this: just because I said I didn't see the advantage of outing a non-cop doesn't mean I saw an advantage in outing cops: we were talking about Gul, and we know that he's not a cop.

PPE 1: Because I have an uncanny ability to see the future; with this, I can predict that e won't flip his townread, and I expect to strenghten mine as well. I might be reading too much into this, being early D1 and all, but I use all information we have available.

Mix how old are you and where are you from and what is your favorite hobby? this will honestly help me get your voice and read you better
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: MiX on February 23, 2019, 05:57:00 pm
Sigh...okay, okay...

18+, Europe, College, studying math.

Did that answer your question? I won't get into more specifics.

For hobbies, well, where are we, right? Except I started playing it in Tabletop Simulator, not IRL.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on February 23, 2019, 05:57:45 pm
I read the OG version of the game on the plane last night. Holy cow...Day 1 was like 2 weeks long. 50 pages! Iím glad yíall cut that ish down before I got here.

My favorite part was when yuma claimed he hadn't used the role he was lying about having because he accidentally e-mailed the mod's old e-mail address that he never checks and people actually bought it.

Right? Joth clearly struggled with deciding to to Jo-the-O or Jo-to-the-0! The alias struggle is real!
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on February 23, 2019, 05:59:38 pm
Sigh...okay, okay...

18+, Europe, College, studying math.

Did that answer your question? I won't get into more specifics.

For hobbies, well, where are we, right? Except I started playing it in Tabletop Simulator, not IRL.

There's one other important question:

Do you have a neopets account, and how many of them are named "Jessica?"
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: MiX on February 23, 2019, 06:01:42 pm
Sigh...okay, okay...

18+, Europe, College, studying math.

Did that answer your question? I won't get into more specifics.

For hobbies, well, where are we, right? Except I started playing it in Tabletop Simulator, not IRL.

There's one other important question:

Do you have a neopets account, and how many of them are named "Jessica?"

I'm sorry for not being pacovf.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: jotheonah on February 23, 2019, 06:38:47 pm
Vote Count 1.1

"Captain, Gul Dukat's ship is requesting permission to dock," Major Kira says, the irritation in her voice obvious.

Captain Sisko puts his head in his hands.

"Today of all days he decides to pay us a visit. On screen."

"Benjamin!" the Cardassian says with an almost convincing smile. "I hope this isn't an inconvenient time for a visit but my ship needs some minor repairs and my crew could use some shore leave. Mind if we come aboard?"

"Make yourself at home, Dukat, just stay away from the secure areas," Kira cuts in. "We have a lot going on right now and we don't need your brand of trouble"

"Nerys, you wound me. Trouble! I thought you enjoyed my visits. I know I certainly do. Perhaps you'll have dinner tonight with me and my daughter?"

"Give Ziyal my regrets. I'm washing my hair tonight," Kira says with no trace of authenticity. "You're cleared to doc on Pylon 3."

She unceremoniously cuts off the comm link, but the panel beeps again immediately.

"Sir, you're not going to believe this. I've got another request to dock ... from Kai Winn."

"You take care of it, Major," Sisko says. "I can tell I'm going to need another raktajino."


raerae (1): MiX
Awaclus (1): Glooble
faust (2): 2.71828....., UmbrageOfSnow
2.71828..... (2): faust, mcmcsalot
shraeye (1): raerae
UmbrageOfSnow (1): UncleEurope

Not voting (9): Jimmmmm, LaLight, DatSwan, WestCoastDidds, SpaceAnemone, Shraeye, ashersky, Robz888, Awaclus, chickenwarlord

With 18 alive, it takes 10 to lynch most players.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: shraeye on February 23, 2019, 07:28:33 pm
I happen to like e's reason to townread shraeye, and your vote seems like a good way to not play RVS, since he's not dying today.

What.  What what?  e has no reason.  How on earth can you like it?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: raerae on February 23, 2019, 07:31:14 pm
Sigh...okay, okay...

18+, Europe, College, studying math.

Did that answer your question? I won't get into more specifics.

For hobbies, well, where are we, right? Except I started playing it in Tabletop Simulator, not IRL.

Studying math is sure sign of being scum.

PS: You and shraeye should talk math (not in thread because snore city!) and see if you overlap.  #research
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: shraeye on February 23, 2019, 07:32:39 pm
There are no masons, no cop results, and I doubt this is partner interaction. Thus I believe that you have a genuine townread.

Mine is him soft-claiming not Gul feeling very casual, that and his general jokey-ness, which I believe comes from town!shraeye, based on previous games I read.

Any questions?

Yes.  I have so many questions.  You said "I like e's reasons".  He said "Why?"  You said "Well I just assumed you had some; here are MY reasons".

If you have no idea what e's reasons are......then why do you like them???
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: shraeye on February 23, 2019, 07:33:29 pm
Sigh...okay, okay...

18+, Europe, College, studying math.

Did that answer your question? I won't get into more specifics.

For hobbies, well, where are we, right? Except I started playing it in Tabletop Simulator, not IRL.

Studying math is sure sign of being scum.

PS: You and shraeye should talk math (not in thread because snore city!) and see if you overlap.  #research
Whatever; you can't get enough of mathtalk and you know it.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: Robz888 on February 23, 2019, 08:01:31 pm
My meta is Iím useless at setup stuff and just kind of hate day 1 in general.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: Glooble on February 23, 2019, 08:23:25 pm
My meta is Iím useless at setup stuff and just kind of hate day 1 in general.

Does anyone like Day 1?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on February 23, 2019, 08:48:27 pm
My meta is Iím useless at setup stuff and just kind of hate day 1 in general.

Does anyone like Day 1?

Not me
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: Chickenwarlord on February 23, 2019, 08:51:54 pm
Does anyone like Day 1?
I imagine it is fun for the mastermind watching biases play out. Not a big fan of first day shots in the dark myself - but with multiple scum teams might be a tad more viable.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: mcmcsalot on February 23, 2019, 10:30:28 pm
Sigh...okay, okay...

18+, Europe, College, studying math.

Did that answer your question? I won't get into more specifics.

For hobbies, well, where are we, right? Except I started playing it in Tabletop Simulator, not IRL.

Oh sorry if I asked probing questions, Iím a really open person and forget sometimes itís rude to request personal info. But thank you that does in fact help.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: mcmcsalot on February 23, 2019, 10:31:04 pm
Sigh...okay, okay...

18+, Europe, College, studying math.

Did that answer your question? I won't get into more specifics.

For hobbies, well, where are we, right? Except I started playing it in Tabletop Simulator, not IRL.

All the cool kids have neopets accounts

There's one other important question:

Do you have a neopets account, and how many of them are named "Jessica?"
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: mcmcsalot on February 23, 2019, 10:32:49 pm
My meta is Iím useless at setup stuff and just kind of hate day 1 in general.

This isnít a meta itís a failure to be care to be good at the game.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: mcmcsalot on February 23, 2019, 10:33:51 pm
Sigh...okay, okay...

18+, Europe, College, studying math.

Did that answer your question? I won't get into more specifics.

For hobbies, well, where are we, right? Except I started playing it in Tabletop Simulator, not IRL.

All the cool kids have neopets accounts

There's one other important question:

Do you have a neopets account, and how many of them are named "Jessica?"

Quote fail

All the cool kids have neopets accounts
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on February 23, 2019, 10:41:55 pm
Yíall are generation gapping me. I know nothing about the neopets.

But I used the Internet when Internet Relay Chat was a thing. I like being old...more money means better drinks.

Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: ashersky on February 23, 2019, 11:03:20 pm
My meta is Iím useless at setup stuff and just kind of hate day 1 in general.

This isnít a meta itís a failure to be care to be good at the game.

Nice.

Man, so many pages already.

vote: UoS[
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: 2.71828..... on February 24, 2019, 01:48:52 am
Anyway, care to guess why I voted for faust?
Vote: raerae, I happen to like e's reason to townread shraeye, and your vote seems like a good way to not play RVS, since he's not dying today.

What was my reason that shraeye is town?

There are no masons, no cop results, and I doubt this is partner interaction. Thus I believe that you have a genuine townread.

Mine is him soft-claiming not Gul feeling very casual, that and his general jokey-ness, which I believe comes from town!shraeye, based on previous games I read.

Any questions?

PPE 1: There are no advantages of outing a cop. There are also no advantages of outing a non-cop. Please state if you wish for me to clarify.

Are you scum?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: faust on February 24, 2019, 01:51:52 am
My meta is Iím useless at setup stuff and just kind of hate day 1 in general.

Does anyone like Day 1?
Yes, it is the best Day.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: 2.71828..... on February 24, 2019, 01:56:13 am
I do like Dukat claiming, now I don't have to argue about it though.

Also we obviously can't control when people claim, but faust, shraeye and others (and Joth in the Ancillary game) are really pushing this thing where it's all up to the town. Obvious it is up to the individual players but it is very much worth discussing. I was serious when I said I thought it had hurt town in Ancillary Mafia, the only thing I was lying about there was being upset about it.

This game is open so for the new players, scum have no value in fake claiming here, since every single one of us has a unique name from a known list. Towns lately seem to love randomly claiming their roles at L-4 or whatever and it's hugely anti-town. Even if your role is not a likely NK target, you narrow the pool of targets for the roles scum are looking for and it hurts everyone else.

Mafia is a team game, and decisions each player makes effect their whole team.

I don't know where this argument is coming from, but multiple players across multiple games are saying things with similar language so it's getting to be kind of a meme and I really think it's bad play that we should clamp down on.

Only town says "I like this one person claiming" then "claiming hurts town"
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on February 24, 2019, 01:56:56 am
Down to 15 for my lynch pool. D1 is awesome!
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: 2.71828..... on February 24, 2019, 02:12:11 am
PPE 1: Because I have an uncanny ability to see the future; with this, I can predict that e won't flip his townread, and I expect to strenghten mine as well. I might be reading too much into this, being early D1 and all, but I use all information we have available.

Wait, what does this mean?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: faust on February 24, 2019, 02:20:53 am
Down to 15 for my lynch pool. D1 is awesome!
Should be 14. 17 - UoS - shraeye - Eddie
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: MiX on February 24, 2019, 04:43:55 am
I happen to like e's reason to townread shraeye, and your vote seems like a good way to not play RVS, since he's not dying today.

What.  What what?  e has no reason.  How on earth can you like it?

Not THIS again...do I have to explain my thought process, getting lynched in the process? Well, here goes...

E said he had a townread on shraeye. Seeing as I've played with him and read some of his past games, I went to see if I, too, got a townread from reading shraeye closer. I found out that, yes, I did, even if not as much as E's "conf!town". Thus, I assumed his reasons to townread shraeye were the same as mine.

Happy?

Are you scum?

No.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on February 24, 2019, 04:51:42 am
Down to 15 for my lynch pool. D1 is awesome!
Should be 14. 17 - UoS - shraeye - Eddie

Why Eddie?  Because they claimed a role that will likely never be NKed?  Not good enough for me.

You know what is good enough for me though?  The fact that I haven't played with them before.  In the same vein lets also add MiX, raerae, and chicken to the non-D1 lynch list.

Down to 11!

Speaking of chicken, where are they?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: 2.71828..... on February 24, 2019, 04:53:33 am
I happen to like e's reason to townread shraeye, and your vote seems like a good way to not play RVS, since he's not dying today.

What.  What what?  e has no reason.  How on earth can you like it?

Not THIS again...do I have to explain my thought process, getting lynched in the process? Well, here goes...

E said he had a townread on shraeye. Seeing as I've played with him and read some of his past games, I went to see if I, too, got a townread from reading shraeye closer. I found out that, yes, I did, even if not as much as E's "conf!town". Thus, I assumed his reasons to townread shraeye were the same as mine.

Happy?

Are you scum?

No.

Wait, we played together?  which game?  And why don't I remember it?  Losing my memory....no good at all.

Good news though is that you are back in the D1 lynch pool!
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on February 24, 2019, 04:55:06 am
@Robz888, I have a strong urge to slap you into doing setup stuff, but I fear I might fail...anyway my vote's already in a better place.

@mcmc, those are good questions, I'm glad you asked. It's not rude, but I'm not saying more.

@Chickenwarlord, get a signature or something that we can search for to see all of your posts, it helps and I'm sure DatSwan will say the same when he actually gets to the game.

@E, I'm pretty sure scum!UoS can say that they're happy someone claimed and simultaneously say that claims hurts town, especially when the claim that happened is the only good claim to do immediately.

PPE 2: If we kill Uncle now, UB will get Hated Godfather, which is pretty bad. Chicken already posted...that reminds me, @Chickenwarlord, get a picture, makes skimming much easier.

And I meant I played with shraeye...I knew that was going to get ambiguous, but I was sure you had memory  :P
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: 2.71828..... on February 24, 2019, 04:55:43 am
I happen to like e's reason to townread shraeye, and your vote seems like a good way to not play RVS, since he's not dying today.

What.  What what?  e has no reason.  How on earth can you like it?

Not THIS again...do I have to explain my thought process, getting lynched in the process? Well, here goes...

E said he had a townread on shraeye. Seeing as I've played with him and read some of his past games, I went to see if I, too, got a townread from reading shraeye closer. I found out that, yes, I did, even if not as much as E's "conf!town". Thus, I assumed his reasons to townread shraeye were the same as mine.

Happy?

Are you scum?

No.

Also, only getting lynched if the thought process is scummy.  Which here I would say is fairly close to that.  Enough to build a fool-proof D1 lynch case (as all D1 lynch cases are)
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Awaclus on February 24, 2019, 05:29:44 am
Yíall are generation gapping me. I know nothing about the neopets.

But I used the Internet when Internet Relay Chat was a thing. I like being old...more money means better drinks.

IRC is a thing.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on February 24, 2019, 08:53:53 am
Sigh...okay, okay...

18+, Europe, College, studying math.

Did that answer your question? I won't get into more specifics.

For hobbies, well, where are we, right? Except I started playing it in Tabletop Simulator, not IRL.

Relevant things would be:

1) Are you a native English speaker? Your use of "College" and "math" marks you out as very unlikely to be from the UK. I think you're probably a fluent non-native rather than an American studying abroad, but the distinction could be relevant if trying to read a lot into your posts later.

2) What timezone are you in? It's useful to know when deadlines fall in timezones where a player can or can't be present. In general, US-evening deadlines suck for Europe-based players. I'm a night own based in the UK, so I'm at forum time plus five, but offset a couple of hours west because I don't really like mornings and try to minimise my exposure :-P

Bonus point: I can barely play Dominion... I'm here solely for the Mafia :-)
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on February 24, 2019, 08:56:11 am
Also, hi everyone! There are several names I don't recognise here, possibly because I haven't really read many of the games I haven't played in myself.

Just to get it out of the way early: my preferred pronoun is they/them. I get really frustrated at people going with "default he", though thankfully that is more rare here than it used to be, I think :-)
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on February 24, 2019, 08:59:15 am
Is MiX a veteran from somewhere else?  Plays with a lot of confidence, which I auto-read as scummy when I'm not familiar with them.

Robz is a great D1 lynch, but also a useful player later in the game, so it's a toss up there.

Every mcmc post has felt like a good post, which means he's scum.

SA is being nice and hasn't yet analyzed anything, which means they're scum.

Basically everyone is scummy, no town reads for anyone.  That can't be right, right?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on February 24, 2019, 09:01:17 am
As for the question of posting recommendations for how roles should be played, I absolutely think it's a useful pro-town thing to do. As someone who likes playing in a collaborative setting (which isn't generally possible for town, except as masons or something), it's good to hear others' ideas about how a role should be used. Not only that, but I think it's also useful to see what certain people are or aren't pushing for in terms of role optimization, because that can often help reads too.

If scums feel they have to contribute to discussion optimal play and will get called out for things that aren't good for town, then they have fewer opportunities to hide scummy play behind "personal right to decide", and are obliged to contribute town-positive ideas or to expose themselves as not working solely in town's interest.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on February 24, 2019, 09:07:09 am
My meta is Iím useless at setup stuff and just kind of hate day 1 in general.

Does anyone like Day 1?

Do you? Answer honestly please.

1) Are you a native English speaker? Your use of "College" and "math" marks you out as very unlikely to be from the UK. I think you're probably a fluent non-native rather than an American studying abroad, but the distinction could be relevant if trying to read a lot into your posts later.

2) What timezone are you in? It's useful to know when deadlines fall in timezones where a player can or can't be present. In general, US-evening deadlines suck for Europe-based players. I'm a night own based in the UK, so I'm at forum time plus five, but offset a couple of hours west because I don't really like mornings and try to minimise my exposure :-P

No. +0, so forum+5. I hope you can determine where I am with this information...

Is MiX a veteran from somewhere else?  Plays with a lot of confidence, which I auto-read as scummy when I'm not familiar with them.

Sucks that I gave this information in <ongoing game>...I've played in Tabletop Simulator, which is essencially quick mafia: days are minutes and the game ends in an hour because maximum players are 10.

Basically everyone is scummy, no town reads for anyone.  That can't be right, right?

Worst case scenario there's 6 scum, which is a lot. We know there's at least 4, you mentioned 4 people, so that seems to work out, yes. But replace me with yourself, of course...
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on February 24, 2019, 09:07:22 am
SA is being nice and hasn't yet analyzed anything, which means they're scum.

I had a posted VLA up till two hours ago. I'm literally only just coming into the game now.. politeness dictates I should say hi to the new players and do introductory stuff before jumping in with analyses. I haven't even configured the vote counter for this game yet.

Also, when do I manage to scrape together enough solid info to do any real analysis D1? I'm a D3+ player :-)
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on February 24, 2019, 09:22:20 am
Just dropping in to say hi. Will hopefully catch up tomorrow.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on February 24, 2019, 09:30:11 am
Yíall are generation gapping me. I know nothing about the neopets.

But I used the Internet when Internet Relay Chat was a thing. I like being old...more money means better drinks.

IRC is a thing.

Really? Still? It literally feels like that was a million years ago.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on February 24, 2019, 09:46:24 am
By way of introduction. This is my 6th game...2 newbie games, two RMM, and one guillotine game, but before that Iíd never even heard of mafia.. Iím a she or they, Iím an hour behind forum time, I get up early and go to bed early, Iím generally WCD or Didds, and Iím prone to fluffy chatting and newb mistakes...Iím working on correcting one of those.

Iíve never played with MiX, Raerae, shraeye, chicken, or Jimmm. Eddieís first game was my first game so I was there with faust, UoS, and LL when he went from Uncle to Eddie.

Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Glooble on February 24, 2019, 09:54:44 am
My meta is Iím useless at setup stuff and just kind of hate day 1 in general.

Does anyone like Day 1?

Do you? Answer honestly please.


I usually hate it. Thereís nothing worthwhile to analyze but you still need to find someone to lynch. The game gets much more interesting to me when thereís something real to analyze- by which I mean flips and eventually maybe claims, investigative results, that sort of thing.

I think itís important everyone contribute to day one because you need time to develop reads on people and things people say while awkwardly trying to find something to talk about can be useful later on when given context by concrete information.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: shraeye on February 24, 2019, 10:18:16 am
PPE 1: Because I have an uncanny ability to see the future; with this, I can predict that e won't flip his townread, and I expect to strenghten mine as well. I might be reading too much into this, being early D1 and all, but I use all information we have available.
Wait, what does this mean?
Easy, he's got precognition.  You can google that for more info if you want.

Down to 15 for my lynch pool. D1 is awesome!
Should be 14. 17 - UoS - shraeye - Eddie
And we can add Joth to that pool too!

Speaking of chicken, where are they?
Maybe they're......chicken  8)

politeness dictates...
politeness schmoliteness

Iím prone to fluffy chatting and newb mistakes...Iím working on correcting one of those.
Ooh, which one?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: shraeye on February 24, 2019, 10:20:01 am
Not THIS again...do I have to explain my thought process, getting lynched in the process? Well, here goes...

E said he had a townread on shraeye. Seeing as I've played with him and read some of his past games, I went to see if I, too, got a townread from reading shraeye closer. I found out that, yes, I did, even if not as much as E's "conf!town". Thus, I assumed his reasons to townread shraeye were the same as mine.

Happy?
Yeah, actually very happy.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: shraeye on February 24, 2019, 10:20:51 am
Anyway, care to guess why I voted for faust?
Nope, not at all

Is MiX a veteran from somewhere else?  Plays with a lot of confidence, which I auto-read as scummy when I'm not familiar with them.

Robz is a great D1 lynch, but also a useful player later in the game, so it's a toss up there.

Every mcmc post has felt like a good post, which means he's scum.

SA is being nice and hasn't yet analyzed anything, which means they're scum.

Basically everyone is scummy, no town reads for anyone.  That can't be right, right?
You know what's a bad idea?  Basing reads on oversimplifications of metas.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Awaclus on February 24, 2019, 11:27:52 am
Yíall are generation gapping me. I know nothing about the neopets.

But I used the Internet when Internet Relay Chat was a thing. I like being old...more money means better drinks.

IRC is a thing.

Really? Still? It literally feels like that was a million years ago.

I used it this year, and I also frequent a Discord server which uses Discord bots and IRC bots to sync with IRC because a lot of people prefer to use IRC instead of Discord.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on February 24, 2019, 01:31:17 pm
I love Day 1. It's the best day.

And I know faust agrees with me, which is a big part of why I'm voting him. No, I did not miss the unvote.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on February 24, 2019, 01:32:06 pm
The biggest reason for Day 1s to be useless is when a majority of the town is convinced Day 1s are useless and self-fulfilling-prophecy themselves into not getting any good reads out of it.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on February 24, 2019, 01:32:51 pm
I'm on IRC right now.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on February 24, 2019, 02:41:28 pm
Let's quicklynch someone so we can get to Day 2. Who's up?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: raerae on February 24, 2019, 02:45:39 pm
Let's quicklynch someone so we can get to Day 2. Who's up?

You want to volunteer??
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on February 24, 2019, 02:51:10 pm
Let's quicklynch someone so we can get to Day 2. Who's up?

That'll take a lot of votes...but you can sheep me (raerae) if you want, seems to be the most productive wagon right now.

Currently rereading a lot of past games to see everyone's town and scum meta, hopefully I can come up with something good.

PPE 1: Look who showed up!
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: raerae on February 24, 2019, 02:53:54 pm
We could fast! How about no lunch today? I know shraeye is down.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on February 24, 2019, 02:57:19 pm
We could fast! How about no lunch today? I know shraeye is down.

No lynch means what UB becomes is random, because we'll probably have 2 deaths. This is the worst outcome.

...but last time I said something about the setup I was wrong. So maybe I miscalculated something? Can anyone confirm the above makes sense?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: faust on February 24, 2019, 02:59:58 pm
We could fast! How about no lunch today? I know shraeye is down.

No lynch means what UB becomes is random, because we'll probably have 2 deaths. This is the worst outcome.

...but last time I said something about the setup I was wrong. So maybe I miscalculated something? Can anyone confirm the above makes sense?
What the UB becomes is random anyway. You mean the rest doesn't know what they become? I doubt that should influence our decision.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on February 24, 2019, 03:18:48 pm
We could fast! How about no lunch today? I know shraeye is down.

No lynch means what UB becomes is random, because we'll probably have 2 deaths. This is the worst outcome.

...but last time I said something about the setup I was wrong. So maybe I miscalculated something? Can anyone confirm the above makes sense?
What the UB becomes is random anyway. You mean the rest doesn't know what they become? I doubt that should influence our decision.

Going over the scenarios in my head, I think you're right... There's less information for town, but also for scum: if a cop and a non-cop flip, and he gets non-cop, scum might need to NK him in case he became cop, in which case he deflected a NK from the real cops... I thought I was better at solving setups than this, maybe it's just really good and unbreakable...

The only downside I see is that scum!UB might fakeclaim getting one role with UB while actually getting another. But they would lie about their targets and results anyway, right?

Anyway, assuming the worst, we have 6 scum in 18 players: those are LyLo odds, which are...pretty good, in my opinion. Besides, lynching town (which is the downside of lynching D1) means scum need to target themselves, so overall we would get more dead scum and same dead town, which is obviously a positive. Unless scum want to play endgame multiball...what has happened in other multiball games, do scum try to kill the other team or do they just target town? I would assume they would target each other, thus forcing balance, prisoner's dilemma is strong here.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Glooble on February 24, 2019, 03:47:21 pm
The traditional argument against no lynch is that the scum still get a kill which is guaranteed to be town, but town is denied a kill which has a chance of being scum. With two teams, though, there is still a chance each nk will be scum from the opposite faction.

Iím not a good math person, but Iím going to do some math anyway just cause Iím bored. Basically we have either 4 or 6 scum. So if the lynch were completely random it would be either a 22% or a 33% chance of hitting scum. Not great odds, but not lynching is a 0% chance.

If we no lynch and we have a Maquis and Mirror Universe team, then each scum team has a 20% chance of hitting the other team (barring roleblocker/doctor shenanigans.) If we have a changeling, the changeling has a 17.6% chance of hitting scum, and the scum team has a 5.88% chance of hitting the changeling (which wonít kill them anyway cause bulletproof.)

If we end up lynching town and we have Maquis and Mirror Universe teams, then each scum team has a 21.4% chance of hitting the other scum team (again barring a lucky protective role.) If we have a changeling, then the changeling has a 18.75% chance to hit scum and the scum team has a 7% chance to uselessly hit the changeling.

If we lynch scum and have two scum teams, the team we hit has a 20% chance of hitting scum and the team we didnít hit only has a 14.28% chance of hitting scum. If we lynch scum and have a changeling the changeling has a 12.5% chance to hit scum. If we lynch the changeling we hit the jackpot and of course the scum team has 0% of hitting scum (but thatís more than balanced out by the fact that the changeling has a 0% chance of hitting town.

Not sure what I was trying to prove here, but I did all this math and now I donít want to delete it. Maybe Space or somebody can take this ball and run with it and come up with some more immediately useful numbers.

So long story short, much higher chance thereís some scum dead on day 2 if we lynch than if we donít. Killing scum is killing scum and killing town slightly increases the odds that scum kills scum. Obviously the worst case scenario is worse if we lynch (three dead town as opposed to 2.) Thatís the trade off. I lean towards lynching.

PPE: 1
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on February 24, 2019, 03:48:29 pm
Let's quicklynch someone so we can get to Day 2. Who's up?

I am up for it.

Let's lynch faust.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on February 24, 2019, 03:49:00 pm
And no lynch D1 is basically the most absolute worst thing town could ever do D1
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Uncleeurope on February 24, 2019, 04:05:36 pm
And no lynch D1 is basically the most absolute worst thing town could ever do D1

Time to mass claim.



Then we no lynch.

Come on everybody, letís do this.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on February 24, 2019, 04:10:40 pm
And no lynch D1 is basically the most absolute worst thing town could ever do D1

Time to mass claim.



Then we no lynch.

Come on everybody, letís do this.

Please use your ICness this day to do productive things instead of jokes please.

Vote places, question people, I don't know; go all out, you're not dying today, that's for sure.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Uncleeurope on February 24, 2019, 04:15:14 pm
Peopleís trust in me is unaffected by my claim, I am hardly an IC, and the primary reason for me not being lynched today is to not hurt another player, who might even be scum for all we know.

Itís kind of flimsy, honestly.

And I have a vote in a place. I like it where itís at.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Glooble on February 24, 2019, 04:16:31 pm
vote: MiX

I happen to like jokes.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: raerae on February 24, 2019, 04:27:46 pm
And no lynch D1 is basically the most absolute worst thing town could ever do D1

Time to mass claim.



Then we no lynch.

Come on everybody, letís do this.

Please use your ICness this day to do productive things instead of jokes please.

Vote places, question people, I don't know; go all out, you're not dying today, that's for sure.

Disagree, never stop joking. Sprinkle it with serious. Or do whatever you want that makes the game fun for you.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: shraeye on February 24, 2019, 04:34:41 pm
We could fast! How about no lunch today? I know shraeye is down.
I'm diggity down.

And no lynch D1 is basically the most absolute worst thing town could ever do D1
Naaaah; it'll be fun!!
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Glooble on February 24, 2019, 04:37:32 pm
vote: shraeye

Not liking jokes isn't actually scummy, but I think being down for a no lynch even after all my glorious math is.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on February 24, 2019, 04:40:43 pm
We could fast! How about no lunch today? I know shraeye is down.

I'm diggity down.

Do I need to present mine and Glooble's reasons for why no lynch is bad? Or do you just like to play contrarian?

Can someone answer this? I'm afraid it was buried in my other post:

what has happened in other multiball games, do scum try to kill the other team or do they just target town? I would assume they would target each other, thus forcing balance, prisoner's dilemma is strong here.

PPE 1: That's just shraeye being shraeye, really...I'm pretty sure that's coherent with the game I've reread, if my memory serves me right.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: shraeye on February 24, 2019, 04:44:23 pm
Nah, I know from trying many years ago that if you look at the probabilities, it says lynching is slightly better.  But that's assuming everything under the sun is completely random and not affected at all by reads, scum tactics, Bayesian conditioning on all the other nuances that we couldn't possibly calculate.

It's wrong to think it's a "well 53% utility is over 50% so that's obviously the only play" when all the probabilities are done under math-conditions instead of real-world conditions.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Glooble on February 24, 2019, 05:08:50 pm

Can someone answer this? I'm afraid it was buried in my other post:

what has happened in other multiball games, do scum try to kill the other team or do they just target town? I would assume they would target each other, thus forcing balance, prisoner's dilemma is strong here.


Well, the only multiball game I've played (as far as I remember) was Deep Space Nine mafia version one, which ended with one town and one player from each scum team. The surviving townplayer basically was playing kingmaker.

I was scum in that game. IIRC we tried to get the other scum team lynched, because it gave us towncred and made it look like we were scumhunting (because we were.) For nightkills, we killed people who we thought might be the other scum team, but also people who we thought might be powerful town. Of course that was closed set up. Now that all potential roles are known, I think if I were scum I would want to hit the other scum team. Most of the town PRs just aren't that threatening compared to the possibility of a nightkill.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on February 24, 2019, 05:29:17 pm
And no lynch D1 is basically the most absolute worst thing town could ever do D1

This. We're never no lynching here.

Also there is a ton of weird stuff about this setup, why is the theory stuff people want to talk about in Really Verbose Strategizing phase the most basic stuff?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on February 24, 2019, 05:39:30 pm
And no lynch D1 is basically the most absolute worst thing town could ever do D1

This. We're never no lynching here.

Also there is a ton of weird stuff about this setup, why is the theory stuff people want to talk about in Really Verbose Strategizing phase the most basic stuff?

If you have some insight on things we can talk about that are pro-town, by all means, state them. I've done my share of setup reading and theorizing, and so far my theories have been proven wrong by faust, so I don't have high hopes for the rest.

I also think the only thing that needed to be discussed D1 was the Hated part, and we got that out of the way...ah, and the UB, also taken care of.

Everything else will make people softclaim (slip) non-X, where X is whatever role we're talking about, like what happened to shraeye.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Glooble on February 24, 2019, 05:59:32 pm
And no lynch D1 is basically the most absolute worst thing town could ever do D1

This. We're never no lynching here.

Also there is a ton of weird stuff about this setup, why is the theory stuff people want to talk about in Really Verbose Strategizing phase the most basic stuff?

What weird thing to you want to talk about, Snow?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on February 24, 2019, 06:21:30 pm
Partly I was just finding it weird that people were bringing up the old No Lynch D1 discussion again and acting like they needed to find some theory stuff to talk about, but then weren't talking about anything interesting.

Like "let's make sure to discuss the setup" "Okay, what about it?" "Ummmm... should we No Lynch?"

It's weird. And don't take this the wrong way, MiX, but it's weird for you to talk about your calculations or whatever and then be speculating on the UB being random, like we'd want a cop to claim just so a UB could inherit it or something? I don't think that's what you're suggesting, but it just seems like you haven't put that much thought into this but are kind of acting like you have. And it is actually possible to have a game with no theory discussion, although probably not with this playerlist I guess.

(Also shraeye is wrong about how bad no lynching is, but that's also not worth getting into, it's just a SOMEONE IS WRONG ON THE INTERNET issue and I'm trying not to have that fight.)
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on February 24, 2019, 06:45:37 pm
Partly I was just finding it weird that people were bringing up the old No Lynch D1 discussion again and acting like they needed to find some theory stuff to talk about, but then weren't talking about anything interesting.

Like "let's make sure to discuss the setup" "Okay, what about it?" "Ummmm... should we No Lynch?"

It's weird. And don't take this the wrong way, MiX, but it's weird for you to talk about your calculations or whatever and then be speculating on the UB being random, like we'd want a cop to claim just so a UB could inherit it or something? I don't think that's what you're suggesting, but it just seems like you haven't put that much thought into this but are kind of acting like you have. And it is actually possible to have a game with no theory discussion, although probably not with this playerlist I guess.

(Also shraeye is wrong about how bad no lynching is, but that's also not worth getting into, it's just a SOMEONE IS WRONG ON THE INTERNET issue and I'm trying not to have that fight.)

I like your attempt to stimulate conversation: townpoints!

You're the one that's saying that we should discuss the setup, right? Did I miss anyone else say it?

What I wanted was for there to be a lynch D1, so UB's role would be public. That would also mean we could lynch free of claims, since even if someone claims to be a cop we can just lynch him and whoever's the UB becomes cop, so we won't lose any PR day 1. Also I meant "random" as in "we wouldn't know which PR UB became".

No theory discussion is actively bad for town, but we don't need to do everything D1. In fact I think it's detrimental to talk more about it now, because of the slips town will inevitebly make.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on February 24, 2019, 07:01:12 pm
Other things worth saying at this time:


I cut a few things I didn't want to say, but everyone should best think about how to use their role to help town (especially scum)

GARAK
Biggest thing is probably that last one, Garak could die on the night he Bus Drives someone, and that casts a lot of suspicion on other PR usage, so in the event of Garak's death, we need to be able to look back and figure out who the targets were, to the point that it's probably worth figuring out who to target before the night starts. Best use of Bus Driver is to attempt to redirect an NK back onto scum, but scum want to kill other scum, so it's a bit complicated here. I'd propose Garak target his top 2 scumreads the night he Bus Drives: if both are scum and one is NKed it's a wash, but if 1 is scum and 1 is town, it potentially saves the town and takes out a scum, and that's more likely than the scum being shot and being redirected onto town, which is obviously possible but the saving town is significantly more likely than random.

Given all that, I think Garak should just make sure to always have a pretty unambiguous top 2 scumreads going into the night and redirect one into the other if he decides to use his shot that night. I think he should hold off on shooting (and not take the Lightning Rod power) as long as possible, but this would significantly limit how many PRs we have to worry about having been redirected and how much WIFOM scum can throw around about it.

To that end, I'm going to make a point of having a very clear top 2 scumreads every night and I think everyone else should as well. And since it's 1-shot, scum don't get any POE out of the hypoclaims here like they would with an ungated power.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on February 24, 2019, 07:03:48 pm
I think that's all I have to say about the setup, but no I wasn't the one pushing us to talk about the setup. I'd rather talk about how faust is scum and no one wants to think about why. I'm curious who picks up on what I'm thinking (other than faust) but it doesn't even seem like people care to think about this as a serious read right now.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on February 24, 2019, 07:07:01 pm
Does the Universal Backup inherit access to the Ferengi neighborhood if a Ferengi is the first to die?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Uncleeurope on February 24, 2019, 07:08:32 pm
I think that's all I have to say about the setup, but no I wasn't the one pushing us to talk about the setup. I'd rather talk about how faust is scum and no one wants to think about why. I'm curious who picks up on what I'm thinking (other than faust) but it doesn't even seem like people care to think about this as a serious read right now.

I refuse to play games I donít know the rules to.

I also donít know if I agree with the top two scumreads thing.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on February 24, 2019, 07:09:09 pm
Wow. Okay that's a lot of info. UoS won't die today.

Sadly I'll need to go to bed now, so I'll just say this: Sisko should be treated as a cop and act like a cop. Does that make sense? Because it does to me.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on February 24, 2019, 07:09:19 pm
What's the downside?

Worried you won't have any scumreads?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Uncleeurope on February 24, 2019, 07:12:44 pm
What's the downside?

Worried you won't have any scumreads?

That argument makes no sense, everyone will have scum reads, even scum. Nah, itís for something else.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on February 24, 2019, 07:17:46 pm
I mean, you've already claimed so you're the safest person to talk about this with.

Everyone is going to have scumreads anyway, and assuming we aren't lying about scumreads (and town shouldn't be) it's really just about the optimal usage of the role anyway, minus whatever you lose based on the flip of the day's lynch, but that can be worked in as a conditional anyway.

i.e. if we lynch faust and he flips town, I'm really going to suspect e, but if he flips scum his partner is probably UE.

If Garak flips scum, obviously we don't trust that he stuck to this plan and so we have a whole bunch more WIFOM, but then we could never have done anything about that anyway.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on February 24, 2019, 07:20:07 pm
No. +0, so forum+5. I hope you can determine where I am with this information...

Your profile info already says Portugal, so I'll go with that!
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on February 24, 2019, 07:32:57 pm
I mean, you've already claimed so you're the safest person to talk about this with.

Everyone is going to have scumreads anyway, and assuming we aren't lying about scumreads (and town shouldn't be) it's really just about the optimal usage of the role anyway, minus whatever you lose based on the flip of the day's lynch, but that can be worked in as a conditional anyway.

i.e. if we lynch faust and he flips town, I'm really going to suspect e, but if he flips scum his partner is probably UE.

If Garak flips scum, obviously we don't trust that he stuck to this plan and so we have a whole bunch more WIFOM, but then we could never have done anything about that anyway.

You're posting interesting ideas, but I'm not sure I agree 100%. The more you start allowing your statements to be conditioned on flips, the more info town has to give about the precise truthful state of their suspicion on everyone. While I don't see any big downside to picking two top scumreads, if you go further than that, you risk asking town to give scum too much information.

Also, the more complicated a scheme like this gets, the more likely you are to find uncooperative players.. and then there are arguments when people refuse to cooperate with what seem like a foolproof schemes to those who have a better grip on what's being asked. Then those people start looking scummy, when in fact they're possibly just overconfident in their own way of doing things.. I feel like I've been down that path a bunch of times before when trying to get people to agree with schemes that were optimised to get the most out of a claims process or something.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on February 24, 2019, 07:38:55 pm
That 2nd point is something I've struggled with all my life, going back to like 4th grade group projects.

If you can't explain a good idea in 2 sentences some people stop paying attention and decide not to cooperate. Drives me crazy.

But yeah, I think the 2 is fine really even if it's not conditional. But I wasn't really suggesting we should all do the conditional stuff every day anyway, I was more pointing out that it could be used when it comes up.

And Cops absolutely need not investigate the last person they said was their top scumread, but at some point over a day they are sure to have had a scumread, which is my whole point.

It's a claiming method that folds into normal play.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on February 24, 2019, 07:41:24 pm
UE, what do you think of faust so far? Do you have any read one way or another based on anything?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Glooble on February 24, 2019, 07:45:57 pm
I think that's all I have to say about the setup, but no I wasn't the one pushing us to talk about the setup. I'd rather talk about how faust is scum and no one wants to think about why. I'm curious who picks up on what I'm thinking (other than faust) but it doesn't even seem like people care to think about this as a serious read right now.

Okay I just reread everything faust has said this game and I can't see where you are coming from. I see the town logic in pushing Gul Dukat to claim. I even see the town logic in wanting to lynch him day one, forgetting about the UB, being reminded of the UB, then unvoting. I don't agree with it all, but none of it jumps out as scummy.

Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Uncleeurope on February 24, 2019, 07:47:47 pm
UE, what do you think of faust so far? Do you have any read one way or another based on anything?

Slight town in one light, slight scum in another.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Uncleeurope on February 24, 2019, 07:48:58 pm
UE, what do you think of faust so far? Do you have any read one way or another based on anything?

Slight town in one light, slight scum in another.

I probably should mention that the town light is the light I am using.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on February 24, 2019, 07:55:37 pm
Thanks for playing my game
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on February 24, 2019, 09:20:33 pm
Does the Universal Backup inherit access to the Ferengi neighborhood if a Ferengi is the first to die?

Yes. The setup role is done such that the information the Ferengi have holds true even if the UB joins them.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: shraeye on February 24, 2019, 09:49:38 pm
And no lynch D1 is basically the most absolute worst thing town could ever do D1

This. We're never no lynching here.

Also there is a ton of weird stuff about this setup, why is the theory stuff people want to talk about in Really Verbose Strategizing phase the most basic stuff?
Probably because I'm here and raerae is here and both of us think nolynch is viable.  I remain unconvinced by math (google the McNamara fallacy) or by people simply saying "We are never doing this. It's the worst." (google 'proof by assertion')

Embrace the possibility of a Day1 no lynch, it's more fun than you think.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: raerae on February 24, 2019, 09:54:57 pm
And no lynch D1 is basically the most absolute worst thing town could ever do D1

This. We're never no lynching here.

Also there is a ton of weird stuff about this setup, why is the theory stuff people want to talk about in Really Verbose Strategizing phase the most basic stuff?
Probably because I'm here and raerae is here and both of us think nolynch is viable.  I remain unconvinced by math (google the McNamara fallacy) or by people simply saying "We are never doing this. It's the worst." (google 'proof by assertion')

Embrace the possibility of a Day1 no lynch, it's more fun than you think.

Have you ever successfully convinced anybody of a No Lynch?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: shraeye on February 24, 2019, 09:59:15 pm
Nope; but I'll never stop trying.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: raerae on February 24, 2019, 10:00:15 pm
Nope; but I'll never stop trying.

Your optimism is almost as endearing as it is infuriating.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: faust on February 25, 2019, 02:28:07 am
I tried to hold back and not engage in this, but Someone Is Wrong On The Internet Syndrome is too strong.

  • Cops should aim for their scumreads rather than townreads, innocents are at best half useless and possibly completely useless
  • Cops should only claim results on a guilty or if they are about to be lynched
This is some really obvious stuff that applies to Cops in every game, but ok, we have a newbie I suppose.

The some points that are largely fine. But this:

GARAK
is plain bad advice. Bus Driver should only ever be used to protect a claimed Cop or IC. So target them, swap with another player (that you think is scum). The whole "target 2 scummy players" thing gives scum way too much leeway to use it in an anti-town manner. And if everyone understands that this may happen with claimed Cops, then that means think twice about targeting them.

Question that I have not seen answered yet:

How does the SK Strongman interact with Bus Driving?

It would be nice if all role clarifications would be added to the setup post for easy reference.
[/list]
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on February 25, 2019, 02:34:25 am
Nope; but I'll never stop trying.

Even if No Lynch was a viable option, you shouldn't try to convince people of it, that'll destroy D1 if no one wants a lynch. Since it's not even a good option, it's anti-town to propose that idea. Come back near deadline, then it will be useful.

The UB-Ferengi information is very interesting...

I fail to see why Garak should target 2 scumreads: shouldn't it be 1 townread and 1 scumread? Otherwise it's unlikely scum will target a scummy-looking person, right? Maybe the multiball makes that a thing?

PPE 1: There we go, I say something, faust beats me to it.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on February 25, 2019, 02:57:07 am
hey guys, was moving to another apartment and now I finally am here

Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on February 25, 2019, 02:57:16 am
what's going on
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on February 25, 2019, 06:02:28 am
what's going on

I have no idea yet. We could just start our own conversation.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: faust on February 25, 2019, 06:12:25 am
i.e. if we lynch faust and he flips town, I'm really going to suspect e, but if he flips scum his partner is probably UE.

Is that just a random example or do you actually believe that?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on February 25, 2019, 06:13:27 am
what's going on

Robz is playing up his meta in thread, so likely town
UoS is trying real hard to be helpful, so likely town
There are a bunch of people I haven't played with before, at least one is likely scum, probably MiX, but let's lynch them another time
I created a scum read on faust for fun

Oh and someone claimed something that means absolutely nothing.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Chickenwarlord on February 25, 2019, 06:35:09 am
The odds we have on a first day lynch are anywhere from 22-33% depending on the loadout we got. These SEEM like decent stab in the dark odds, but right now it seems unlikely that we'll reach any sort of agreement on who to target. I'm all for experimenting with no lynch and hoping scum bump toes in the night.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on February 25, 2019, 06:52:32 am
Easier to get dead scum if we lynch, therefore lynching is good. Yes, I do stand by that.

Can anyone tell me what scum!raerae does? I'm finishing up my metaread on e and I wanted to go to faust next...
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on February 25, 2019, 06:54:24 am
I'm finishing up my metaread on e and I wanted to go to faust next...

That sounds scary. Are you reading recent games or old ones?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: faust on February 25, 2019, 06:58:18 am
The odds we have on a first day lynch are anywhere from 22-33% depending on the loadout we got. These SEEM like decent stab in the dark odds, but right now it seems unlikely that we'll reach any sort of agreement on who to target. I'm all for experimenting with no lynch and hoping scum bump toes in the night.
Hi! Obligatory round of newbie stuff:

Make sure you make a post in the forums somewhere outside the forum games section, this will prevent having to do a captcha each time you post.
Would be nice for finding your posts if you added you ShuffleIT Username or a distinguishable signature to your profile.
Can you tell us about your prior experience and what your preferred pronouns are?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on February 25, 2019, 06:58:41 am
what's going on

Robz is playing up his meta in thread, so likely town
UoS is trying real hard to be helpful, so likely town
There are a bunch of people I haven't played with before, at least one is likely scum, probably MiX, but let's lynch them another time
I created a scum read on faust for fun

Oh and someone claimed something that means absolutely nothing.

yeah, I don't want to lynch MiX, not yet. Robz lately is paying his meta in the thread trying to seem town but usually ends up as scum. hmmm

let me reread the whole thread in a couple of days. sorry, I am swamped in things now. I will try to react to recent posts, but old ones will have to wait. Also, can anyone wrap up what happened in the original game if they haven't already? I slightly remember reading it, it was amusing, but I don't remember anything at all
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on February 25, 2019, 08:38:37 am

How does the SK Strongman interact with Bus Driving?

It would be nice if all role clarifications would be added to the setup post for easy reference.
[/list]

Thatís a good idea. Iíll add those later on this morning.

The SKís kill can be bus-driven or redirected, and it is trumped by Kasidyís commute. It gets through Bashirís doctor shot and scum!Kiraís bulletproof.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: raerae on February 25, 2019, 09:16:55 am
Easier to get dead scum if we lynch, therefore lynching is good. Yes, I do stand by that.

Can anyone tell me what scum!raerae does? I'm finishing up my metaread on e and I wanted to go to faust next...

My friend, I last played three years ago or more, even I don't remember my own meta, if you insist on relying on that you're best off using Philosopher's as your meta-test for me.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on February 25, 2019, 09:22:31 am
Can't use ongoing game (wo)man...especially for your scum meta.

I'll need to get home to consolidate my thoughts on e, but I just see towny things, even if minor.

Vote: faust, temp vote while I read him / finish my read on e

That reminds me, @e, I'm using recent games but had to go deeper for scum!e, just need to read 1 older town!e game to see if the changes are alignment-indicative or not.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on February 25, 2019, 09:51:50 am
The opening setup post has been updated with a bunch of role clarifications. Never run an open setup, friends. It's entirely too much work. Vote count this afternoon.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Glooble on February 25, 2019, 10:02:26 am
The opening setup post has been updated with a bunch of role clarifications. Never run an open setup, friends. It's entirely too much work. Vote count this afternoon.

One more question- what happens if Bareil is scum and inherits the copping ability for his own faction?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on February 25, 2019, 10:17:02 am
vote: 2.7 he doesnít feel as genuine as he normally does to me. Hasnít come across as towny and he normally does pretty early.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on February 25, 2019, 10:56:52 am
hey guys, was moving to another apartment and now I finally am here

Thatís a hassle, but potentially awesome. Moving is hard, so I hope you like the new space. And that the cats like it. Because priorities.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on February 25, 2019, 11:01:56 am
The odds we have on a first day lynch are anywhere from 22-33% depending on the loadout we got. These SEEM like decent stab in the dark odds, but right now it seems unlikely that we'll reach any sort of agreement on who to target. I'm all for experimenting with no lynch and hoping scum bump toes in the night.

It seems unlikely that weíll reach a consensus, yet it usually happens. Kind of wild! We still have lots of time to interact and pay attention so even if it seems impossible that half of us would agree to lynch one person now, we will likely get there by the deadline. Partly because most of us (based on my limited knowledge of a handful of games) will want a lynch, so as it gets closer to the deadline there will be some converging. And how we converge (or not) helps us have more to analyze in D2.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: faust on February 25, 2019, 11:03:57 am
Vote: Robz
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on February 25, 2019, 11:06:23 am
Vote Count 1.2

With the threat of infiltration looming, Odo visits his go-to number one suspect at his bar. He finds Morn sitting in his usual spot, talking Quark's ear off as usual.

"Sorry to interrupt that fascinating story, Morn, but I need to have a word with Quark."

"I always have time for my favorite non-customer," Quark says, brightly but sarcastically. "Need a drink to stare at?"

"What I need is to know whether you've heard any rumbles about Maquis activity on the station."

"Everything's been pretty quiet to be honest," Quark replies. "In fact, if you ask me, it's bad for business. Everyone's suspicious, which means no one wants to let down their guard, which means no one wants to drink."

"Present company excluded," he adds, gesturing to Morn as the Lurian takes another gulp of his Saurian Brandy.

"I hope you catch the interlopers soon, Odo, I really do. My profit margins can't take another day of this."

"Hmmmph," Odo replies.


faust (3): 2.71828....., UmbrageOfSnow, MiX
2.71828..... (1): mcmcsalot
shraeye (2): raerae, Glooble
UmbrageOfSnow (2): UncleEurope, ashersky
Robz888 (1): faust

Not voting (9): Jimmmmm, LaLight, DatSwan, WestCoastDidds, SpaceAnemone, Shraeye, Robz888, Awaclus, chickenwarlord

With 18 alive, it takes 10 to lynch most players. Day 1 ends at 8 a.m. forum time on Saturday, March 2.

One more question- what happens if Bareil is scum and inherits the copping ability for his own faction?

You get a cop you can't trust and he gets a power he can't use. (Well he can use it but it won't tell him anything he doesn't already know...)
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: faust on February 25, 2019, 11:25:25 am
(Well he can use it but it won't tell him anything he doesn't already know...)
A Changeling UB could use it to find Odo!
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on February 25, 2019, 11:39:12 am
Iíll sheep mcmcís vote on E, am also getting a funny vibe from him though I canít really describe it.

Faust is making a lot of sense, which isnít surprising. We should not lynch Faust, obviously.

Someone asked what happened the last time this game was run. A big difference was that it was a closed setup and we spent a ton of time trying to guess who could be scum based on their role claim, because we thought the two scum sides had to be roughly equal in power and one seemed stronger than the other. We ended up in a fairly enthralling stand off, itís well worth re reading for entertainmentís sake.

vote: E
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Awaclus on February 25, 2019, 12:10:12 pm
I'm a bit VLA for the following few days.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: Glooble on February 25, 2019, 12:56:10 pm
Rereading e:

There are 24 posts. 2 are before the game starts. Then we get RVS vote on LaLight, townread on shraeye based on nothing (joke?), and a bit of skepticism of faust for wanting Gul Dukat to claim. Votes faust after faust votes him but we're basically still RVS I think. Understandably confused about Eddie. This "basically an IC" thing feels like a dig at me last game, is that right e?


Lots of bickering with faust. Continues to insist shraeye is town for no reason, but I still think its a joke. Makes a list of folks not to lynch. Doesn't remember if he's played with shraeye.


MiX sheeping e's townread seems scummier than e's very insistent townread to me.


Then he says to lynch faust again, says no lynch is very bad (I agree) then he summarizes the day and makes conclusions I don't agree with.

what's going on

Robz is playing up his meta in thread, so likely town


 No he's not, he played exactly like this day one in Ancillary Mafia and he was scum.

UoS is trying real hard to be helpful, so likely town

Never played a day one with UoS, so I don't know what he's usually like. His big advice post seemed mostly towny to me, some of it is kind of Mafia 101 but some of it is setup specific and things a town PR might not have thought of that scum probably would prefer they didn't. All in all it doesn't give me a super strong read on him either way.


Oh and someone claimed something that means absolutely nothing.


It means we should treat UncleEurope at L-2 as if he's at L-1. It means we should be midful of the possibility that he could screw us over in the endgame (If he's town.) It certainly doesn't mean absolutely nothing.

Okay, so that was e, so far, this game. Doesn't jump out to me as scummy, but it kinda feels like he was in the jokey RVS mindset until like really recently. I'm still happy with my shraeye vote for now. Certainly open to other options as the day progresses.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on February 25, 2019, 01:56:30 pm

I don't think you needed all that detail to see that e's towny, it's so early that a "reread" is pretty simple. He's been engaging various points in a generally towny way, the only thing that's off is his activity, which is higher than usual, but I believe that would come more from town!e anyway. Wish I had more concrete things, but e doesn't seem to do much D1, ever...

Now, to UoS' #224 post:


I just realized that we have a completely new player, so every single one of these points is necessary to guide him.

It's better to say who we would target as Garak than say what our town/scum reads, that's much less information for scum and it lets Garak be much more flexible.

Why is faust scum? Why is everyone assuming this? I see nothing, but I'll reread his past games to be sure.

MiX sheeping e's townread seems scummier than e's very insistent townread to me.

If you put it in relative terms, yes (since e's townread is towny and mine's null), but I really see no problem in townreading shraeye, they match everything I've seen from previous town!shraeye games and nothing of scum!shraeye. In fact, the more he talks, the townier he gets.

@Chickenwarlord, how would you describe town!you and scum!you? How much have you played? How much do you know? What are your scum buddies? Right now you haven't said much...


Well that's my reread from an actual computer, did I miss anything?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on February 25, 2019, 05:55:02 pm
Now that <ongoing game> is over, I can just give faust all the townpoints I want, because they're pretty much doing the same here, at least from what I remember. I'll need to reread that game to get a feel of everyone who was there.

On the other hand, I gained a scumread on Uncle, but that's irrelevent, so whatever.

I was rereading scum!faust games (since I already knew some town!faust games), and my conclusion is that I have no idea how to read him. He just seems to do the same thing as town and scum.

On the other hand, I don't like Robz' vote on e where faust is a clearly better wagon (well, it's bigger, and he wants D1 to end right?), so until he doesn't go there:

FoS: Robz888 (treat this as a vote that won't lower faust's wagon)

That vote might be contradictory with my townread on faust, but I actually have no reason to believe that's not what scum!faust does, since I have...no idea what scum!faust's tells are. Does anyone know?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on February 25, 2019, 06:27:58 pm
i.e. if we lynch faust and he flips town, I'm really going to suspect e, but if he flips scum his partner is probably UE.

Is that just a random example or do you actually believe that?

It was a semi-random example, I wanted an example and I tried to think of something that kind of made sense off the top of my head, was sort of hoping someone would jump on me for "lining up mislynches" over it. On reflection I don't feel like e's vote on you is any scummier if you're town, or really particularly scummy at all. But the UE as a possible partner interaction thing is more of a real thing I'd suspect upon your scum flip, but like a point against rather than vote-worthy all by itself.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on February 25, 2019, 06:30:14 pm
yeah, I don't want to lynch MiX, not yet. Robz lately is paying his meta in the thread trying to seem town but usually ends up as scum. hmmm

So why are you scumreading Robz, Lalight?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on February 25, 2019, 06:30:45 pm
Part of my brain still thinks Robz and I are the same person, it's weird.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on February 25, 2019, 06:41:26 pm
I fail to see why Garak should target 2 scumreads: shouldn't it be 1 townread and 1 scumread? Otherwise it's unlikely scum will target a scummy-looking person, right? Maybe the multiball makes that a thing?

Exactly, scum would prefer to kill the other scumteam. Coincidentally town would prefer for scum to kill the other scum, so what scum really want is to kill the other scum while not getting killed themselves.

Protecting Jake or a Cop is also a reasonable plan, but in the case of the IC, we don't really care about other actions getting redirected (and the other player should be top scumread) and in the case of a cop I'd say your read of the cop should trump protecting them. Remember, there is no guarantee cops are town and no guarantee town cops are a threat to any scum actually in the game.

I know I'll be inclined to let a cop that claims too early die and try to busvig scum, and I think we should allow Garak, assuming I'm not Garak, to have that option and set up an easy crumbing strategy that can be followed without agreeing to it.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: raerae on February 25, 2019, 06:46:39 pm
Part of my brain still thinks Robz and I are the same person, it's weird.

Still thinks?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on February 25, 2019, 06:50:54 pm
I subbed in for Robz in the last game, and kept rereading the game. Not that Robz said a lot, but it gets in your head.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: raerae on February 25, 2019, 06:52:44 pm
I subbed in for Robz in the last game, and kept rereading the game. Not that Robz said a lot, but it gets in your head.

Gotcha!  For what it's worth, I have an inappropriate amount of trust for you because I look at your name and think, "Mods can't lie!"
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on February 25, 2019, 06:54:42 pm
I fail to see why Garak should target 2 scumreads: shouldn't it be 1 townread and 1 scumread? Otherwise it's unlikely scum will target a scummy-looking person, right? Maybe the multiball makes that a thing?

Exactly, scum would prefer to kill the other scumteam. Coincidentally town would prefer for scum to kill the other scum, so what scum really want is to kill the other scum while not getting killed themselves.

Protecting Jake or a Cop is also a reasonable plan, but in the case of the IC, we don't really care about other actions getting redirected (and the other player should be top scumread) and in the case of a cop I'd say your read of the cop should trump protecting them. Remember, there is no guarantee cops are town and no guarantee town cops are a threat to any scum actually in the game.

I know I'll be inclined to let a cop that claims too early die and try to busvig scum, and I think we should allow Garak, assuming I'm not Garak, to have that option and set up an easy crumbing strategy that can be followed without agreeing to it.

Okay, let me see if I get this straight...Scum want to target other scum, and town wants the kill to go to said scum. So why would they busdrive them and someone else? There's an argument for "scum's removing their own scumteam when looking for scummy players", which is valid-ish, but still, if you successfully pick 2 scum with Garak, or 2 town, you effectively do nothing, and if otherwise...you increase the odds scum dies? Is that the reason? I think I can see that, but that's assuming scum's reads are worse than town's, which I suppose is true, given that scum have less scumreads...

All this doesn't change the fact that there's no reason to go by scumreads: I don't know about you, but I don't have a definitive order on who I find scummy (at least I didn't last time), maybe I have, say, 3 scumreads, but I'm not sure which ones are scummier (apart from where my vote is). Couldn't we just say "If I was Garak, I would bus drive X and Y"? Or is that too hard to coordinate?

If Garak should busdrive cops based on his reads, should he busdrive a town!cop (in his eyes)? I say yes, in which case always targetting 2 scumreads will backfire.

@UoS, does that mean you find Robz scummy? Either that or you're scum, but you've been pretty towny...
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on February 25, 2019, 07:29:16 pm
That 2nd point is something I've struggled with all my life, going back to like 4th grade group projects.

If you can't explain a good idea in 2 sentences some people stop paying attention and decide not to cooperate. Drives me crazy.

Yup. They're not even usually malicious about it.. just disinterested.

Anyway, I don't think the "two scumreads" thing is so bad in general. I just need to spend long enough reading this game to develop reads!
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on February 25, 2019, 07:31:43 pm
GARAK
is plain bad advice. Bus Driver should only ever be used to protect a claimed Cop or IC. So target them, swap with another player (that you think is scum).

Is your advice necessarily any better given that scummy players are likely to be targeted for an NK by another scum faction?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on February 25, 2019, 08:19:38 pm
Now that <ongoing game> is over, I can just give faust all the townpoints I want, because they're pretty much doing the same here, at least from what I remember. I'll need to reread that game to get a feel of everyone who was there.

On the other hand, I gained a scumread on Uncle, but that's irrelevent, so whatever.

I was rereading scum!faust games (since I already knew some town!faust games), and my conclusion is that I have no idea how to read him. He just seems to do the same thing as town and scum.

On the other hand, I don't like Robz' vote on e where faust is a clearly better wagon (well, it's bigger, and he wants D1 to end right?), so until he doesn't go there:

FoS: Robz888 (treat this as a vote that won't lower faust's wagon)

That vote might be contradictory with my townread on faust, but I actually have no reason to believe that's not what scum!faust does, since I have...no idea what scum!faust's tells are. Does anyone know?

I am just never going to support a faust lynch on Day 1, unless I'm overwhelmingly certain he is scum, which is an unlikely position for me to be in. The reason is his reads are significantly better than the average town player, which means he's worth preserving more than almost anyone else. Also, scum know this, and often shoot him at their first chance. Lets not do scums' job for them.

Honestly I would probably support no lynch over a faust lynch, even though I hate no lynching on Day 1.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on February 25, 2019, 08:32:14 pm
My few thoughts so far:

-ash is Towny
-UoS is probably Towny
-shraeye is scummy
-count me against no-lynching

Vote: shraeye
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: raerae on February 25, 2019, 09:25:33 pm
My few thoughts so far:

-ash is Towny
-UoS is probably Towny
-shraeye is scummy
-count me against no-lynching

Vote: shraeye

Is shraeye scummy for suggesting a no lunch?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on February 25, 2019, 09:31:38 pm
No lynch is very bad, but I don't want to welcome shraeye back with a day 1 lynch. Same for raerae.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: raerae on February 25, 2019, 09:33:31 pm
No lynch is very bad, but I don't want to welcome shraeye back with a day 1 lynch. Same for raerae.

Naw, let's kill him, I just want to know why first.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on February 25, 2019, 09:43:58 pm
Is shraeye scummy for suggesting a no lunch?

No.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Uncleeurope on February 25, 2019, 10:37:06 pm
No lynch is very bad, but I don't want to welcome shraeye back with a day 1 lynch. Same for raerae.

Naw, let's kill him, I just want to know why first.


Bahaha

Priorities, amirite?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: raerae on February 25, 2019, 10:48:39 pm
No lynch is very bad, but I don't want to welcome shraeye back with a day 1 lynch. Same for raerae.

Naw, let's kill him, I just want to know why first.


Bahaha

Priorities, amirite?

If true crime shows have taught me nothing else it's the importance of a good alibi or at least a good self-defense story!

@jimmmmmm, it's because he made a dad joke, isn't it? I'll take that as a yes and I fully support it.

But, in all seriousness, he's basically done nothing other than call for a no lynch and question MiX's ridiculousness so what's your reason?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: DatSwan on February 25, 2019, 10:50:30 pm
OK caught up. After all the hate of wall posting from the last couple games I am gonna forego it and just put it in my notes for me to enjoy.

Bullet Points:

- I do not think coming up with a no-lynch scenario is skummy. If anything, it is the opposite. I don't think skum would be bold enough in this set up to try to push something like that.

- What could be skummy... is agreeing with the original idea without further speculation.

- While I mostly agree with the consensus of "agreed upon towny players" to this point - I feel the need to point out that all discussion post RVS has been surrounding game set up mechanics... which is undoubtedly Skum's favorite topic of discussion. It stalls game play with info that everyone can conclude on their own accord and gives them to reply with said information making them seem like they have done a lot of insightful work... but really they just read the set up.

- For Gul, can someone help me out here? It reads:
"Gul Dukat - hated (stops working when it would take 1 or less vote to lynch) godfather" - So.... You are hated until you get to where you would be lynched and then it turns off... so you are not hated? Am I just being stupid?


And yeah everything else seems to be just usual Day 1 mish mash so far.

I see the potential argument for no lynch in this set up, but am against it. 
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Uncleeurope on February 25, 2019, 11:07:14 pm
Hated works until it would take that many votes to work in total, like when three people are left alive, as far as I understand it.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: shraeye on February 26, 2019, 12:11:59 am
Here's the deal with no-lynch. 


Nope; but I'll never stop trying.

Even if No Lynch was a viable option, you shouldn't try to convince people of it, that'll destroy D1 if no one wants a lynch. Since it's not even a good option, it's anti-town to propose that idea. Come back near deadline, then it will be useful.

I'm not trying to get people to vote:nolynch right this minute. What I am heavily suggesting and will never stop suggesting is that no lynch is a viable end to Day1.  It should be in our arsenal.  There are 18 viable ends to the day (because lynching UncleEurope on Day1 is not an option).

There are people who are soooooo against no-lynch that they will literally vote for their biggest townread to ensure that "at least some lynch goes through."  That's extremist and absurd.  Less extreme, but equally absurd is people who will vote for regular townreads all in the name of #mustlynch.

Easier to get dead scum if we lynch, therefore lynching is good. Yes, I do stand by that.
Not just you, but others as well, quote statistics like they're Wayne Gretsky (you miss 100% of the shots you don't take).  sure the probability of a random choice hitting scum is 22%-33%, and the probability of a no-lynch hitting scum is 0%.  But that's not the point. 
A) LYNCHES ARE NOT RANDOM  (I literally can't stress this enough)
B) people act like the only metric worth measuring is is-scum-dead.  There is value in having town alive, and that has to be factored in if you insist on only using math. 


WestCoastDidds has a good point, but also mentions a wrong one people have
The odds we have on a first day lynch are anywhere from 22-33% depending on the loadout we got. These SEEM like decent stab in the dark odds, but right now it seems unlikely that we'll reach any sort of agreement on who to target. I'm all for experimenting with no lynch and hoping scum bump toes in the night.

It seems unlikely that weíll reach a consensus, yet it usually happens. Kind of wild! We still have lots of time to interact and pay attention so even if it seems impossible that half of us would agree to lynch one person now, we will likely get there by the deadline. Partly because most of us (based on my limited knowledge of a handful of games) will want a lynch, so as it gets closer to the deadline there will be some converging. And how we converge (or not) helps us have more to analyze in D2.

We could very much reach a consensus; it happens a lot.  But please please please PLEASE for the love of all things coffee-related, do not converge JUST so a lynch will happen.  There could be days in the future where it is more essential to lynch, many factors affect stuff like this.  But Day1, in an 18 player game, with 2 scumteams, and multiple roles that can save....that's checks every single box on the "is it reasonable to nolynch" survey.

It INFURIATES me that people see ~25% vs. 0% and then just mindlessly echo "ALWAYS lynch, ALWAYS lynch, ALWAYS lynch".  The issue is much more intricate than ~25% vs 0%.
Ok, that's off my chest.  I swear I won't bring up no-lynching again for a while.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: shraeye on February 26, 2019, 12:13:09 am
yeah, I don't want to lynch MiX, not yet. Robz lately is paying his meta in the thread trying to seem town but usually ends up as scum. hmmm
Boooo for the lazy "read".  You have read enough games to realize Robz playing up is meta is what he does.  It's a Robz-tell.  So, yes, he hasn't been abducted and replaced by weasels.

I can't tell if that or this is the scummier vote:
vote: 2.7 he doesnít feel as genuine as he normally does to me. Hasnít come across as towny and he normally does pretty early.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: shraeye on February 26, 2019, 12:14:02 am
Ha, that prize goes to mcmc's, because as soon as I posted it I said "but LaLight didn't vote"
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: shraeye on February 26, 2019, 12:15:41 am
I fail to see why Garak should target 2 scumreads: shouldn't it be 1 townread and 1 scumread? Otherwise it's unlikely scum will target a scummy-looking person, right? Maybe the multiball makes that a thing?
I know I'll be inclined to let a cop that claims too early die and try to busvig scum, and I think we should allow Garak, assuming I'm not Garak, to have that option and set up an easy crumbing strategy that can be followed without agreeing to it.
I disagreed with your first set of recommendations, and can't figure out what this means at all.  So put me in the camp of people who are now disinterested in following Umbrage-strategy.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: shraeye on February 26, 2019, 12:17:22 am
Why is faust scum? Why is everyone assuming this? I see nothing, but I'll reread his past games to be sure.
Everything else felt reactionary, but THIS is an interesting piece. 

MiX, who is assuming faust is scum?  Find me the quotes that compelled you to say this.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: shraeye on February 26, 2019, 12:25:42 am

Hey DatSwan!

If I told you there was scum in {mcmcs, Glooble, Umbrage, Awaclus, Jimmmm}, would you think I was right or wrong?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: faust on February 26, 2019, 12:52:39 am
Why is faust scum? Why is everyone assuming this? I see nothing, but I'll reread his past games to be sure.
Still you are voting for me...
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: faust on February 26, 2019, 12:54:15 am
i.e. if we lynch faust and he flips town, I'm really going to suspect e, but if he flips scum his partner is probably UE.

Is that just a random example or do you actually believe that?

It was a semi-random example, I wanted an example and I tried to think of something that kind of made sense off the top of my head, was sort of hoping someone would jump on me for "lining up mislynches" over it. On reflection I don't feel like e's vote on you is any scummier if you're town, or really particularly scummy at all. But the UE as a possible partner interaction thing is more of a real thing I'd suspect upon your scum flip, but like a point against rather than vote-worthy all by itself.
See, that one I don't buy. If Eddie was scum and I his partner, and we decided to claim Gul Dukat, why on earth would I want to steal his thunder by proposing the plan before he ever had a chance to post?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: faust on February 26, 2019, 12:56:28 am
I fail to see why Garak should target 2 scumreads: shouldn't it be 1 townread and 1 scumread? Otherwise it's unlikely scum will target a scummy-looking person, right? Maybe the multiball makes that a thing?

Exactly, scum would prefer to kill the other scumteam. Coincidentally town would prefer for scum to kill the other scum, so what scum really want is to kill the other scum while not getting killed themselves.
No, scum wants to kill players at night that they cannot get lynched during the Day.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: shraeye on February 26, 2019, 12:56:59 am
wait, MiX is voting for you?  then that post is double suspicious.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: faust on February 26, 2019, 12:57:51 am
GARAK
is plain bad advice. Bus Driver should only ever be used to protect a claimed Cop or IC. So target them, swap with another player (that you think is scum).

Is your advice necessarily any better given that scummy players are likely to be targeted for an NK by another scum faction?
They're not. If a person is scummy, scum would much prefer to keep them around and lynch them the next Day, because that is one more lynch not on their team and might even give them towncred.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: shraeye on February 26, 2019, 01:15:10 am
I was about to vote for MiX, then I remembered that I promised myself less tunnelling. 

Mix, your thing with e's townread of me was weird, but I understood you better when you explained it.

Your thing with faust is now weird.  Can you explain what your vote is doing there? 

Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on February 26, 2019, 01:48:55 am
I think faust is wrong here. In Multiball (and games with know night kills other than the scum teamís), scum want to remove that threat first. Lynchable vs. not is secondary. So I think here hitting ďother scum or vigĒ is scumís preference.

The problem with bus driving important roles or towny players is that you are providing an accidental lane to them being targeted at night, depending on your reads. Say you drive a cop with a scumread and different scum are shooting for said scum read (or just using crumbs to go for the cop). 

At the least, you need everyone to crumb a la snowís idea, to provide cover.

I think directing the drive is a foolís errand.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: faust on February 26, 2019, 02:08:19 am
Note also that the SK (which has a 2/3 chance of existing) is Bulletproof, so scum has further incentive not to shoot scummy people, and the SK has no incentive to shoot scum.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: DatSwan on February 26, 2019, 03:59:50 am

Hey DatSwan!

If I told you there was scum in {mcmcs, Glooble, Umbrage, Awaclus, Jimmmm}, would you think I was right or wrong?

Do I think there is skum on Day 1 of a grouping of 5 players in a 18 player game where there is GTD to be a minimum of 4 skum? I mean yes - I don't even need to read the question, I just assume the likelihood of be being correct on any given 5 players is pretty high.

I am however assuming you would like a specification - in which case, I don't really have an answer...

I will always vote for one person in your pool - regardless of the situation.
I think one person in your pool is town for sure as I can be at this point.
I think one person is townish but on my radar.
And I have no opinion on the other two to this point.

So, I guess IDK. I think you would be right based on the fact it would be improbable for you to be wrong. but you also picked an annoyingly frustrating set of players for me to judge. Always down for an Awaclus lynch though if you want to narrow it down.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: DatSwan on February 26, 2019, 04:04:54 am
Hated works until it would take that many votes to work in total, like when three people are left alive, as far as I understand it.

Ah ok that makes more sense than what I was thinking... Upon further thought, what I was thinking made 0 sense at all.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: DatSwan on February 26, 2019, 04:07:12 am

Hey DatSwan!

If I told you there was scum in {mcmcs, Glooble, Umbrage, Awaclus, Jimmmm}, would you think I was right or wrong?

wait I want follow up now that I have thought about it.

Same question back at you.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: DatSwan on February 26, 2019, 04:18:08 am
I fail to see why Garak should target 2 scumreads: shouldn't it be 1 townread and 1 scumread? Otherwise it's unlikely scum will target a scummy-looking person, right? Maybe the multiball makes that a thing?

Exactly, scum would prefer to kill the other scumteam. Coincidentally town would prefer for scum to kill the other scum, so what scum really want is to kill the other scum while not getting killed themselves.
No, scum wants to kill players at night that they cannot get lynched during the Day.

Not arguing - in a set up where there is one Skum team and one other faction like SK... then yeah. I think everyone would agree the best way to move forward (as skum) would be to ignore the SK concept and focus on Town threats.
But the set up here is unknown and different. There is either:
- Team of 3 Skum and 1 SK
or
- 2x Teams of 3 Skum
(As I understand the set up notes).

If there are two skum teams then at this point they would not know and either team could find it more valuable to kill a likely skum player (that isn't of their faction) as opposed to searching for town threats.
Especially considering if there are two skum teams the likelihood that a cop finds skum is equal for their opposing faction as it is for them to be found.

All in all this game, given the set up, I could see it going either way. Skum probably still shoots someone suspicious under the assumption they find either strong Town PR or other skum, but the factor of likelihood of finding other skum should be factored out of theory until we have flips enough to substantiate what the skum set up is.

My point is that we should not speculate now on kill targets for skum. Too much WIFOM. When we get enough flips to determine something, then we can/should address it.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: DatSwan on February 26, 2019, 04:20:33 am
I think faust is wrong here. In Multiball (and games with know night kills other than the scum teamís), scum want to remove that threat first. Lynchable vs. not is secondary. So I think here hitting ďother scum or vigĒ is scumís preference.

The problem with bus driving important roles or towny players is that you are providing an accidental lane to them being targeted at night, depending on your reads. Say you drive a cop with a scumread and different scum are shooting for said scum read (or just using crumbs to go for the cop). 

At the least, you need everyone to crumb a la snowís idea, to provide cover.

I think directing the drive is a foolís errand.

So, we woke up tomorrow with the knowledge that there is more than one Skum Team - Do you think from that point forward Skum would focus on Town PRs or on the other Skum Team when choosing their NK?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: DatSwan on February 26, 2019, 04:27:40 am
Here's the deal with no-lynch. 


Nope; but I'll never stop trying.

Even if No Lynch was a viable option, you shouldn't try to convince people of it, that'll destroy D1 if no one wants a lynch. Since it's not even a good option, it's anti-town to propose that idea. Come back near deadline, then it will be useful.

I'm not trying to get people to vote:nolynch right this minute. What I am heavily suggesting and will never stop suggesting is that no lynch is a viable end to Day1.  It should be in our arsenal.  There are 18 viable ends to the day (because lynching UncleEurope on Day1 is not an option).

There are people who are soooooo against no-lynch that they will literally vote for their biggest townread to ensure that "at least some lynch goes through."  That's extremist and absurd.  Less extreme, but equally absurd is people who will vote for regular townreads all in the name of #mustlynch.

Easier to get dead scum if we lynch, therefore lynching is good. Yes, I do stand by that.
Not just you, but others as well, quote statistics like they're Wayne Gretsky (you miss 100% of the shots you don't take).  sure the probability of a random choice hitting scum is 22%-33%, and the probability of a no-lynch hitting scum is 0%.  But that's not the point. 
A) LYNCHES ARE NOT RANDOM  (I literally can't stress this enough)
B) people act like the only metric worth measuring is is-scum-dead.  There is value in having town alive, and that has to be factored in if you insist on only using math. 


WestCoastDidds has a good point, but also mentions a wrong one people have
The odds we have on a first day lynch are anywhere from 22-33% depending on the loadout we got. These SEEM like decent stab in the dark odds, but right now it seems unlikely that we'll reach any sort of agreement on who to target. I'm all for experimenting with no lynch and hoping scum bump toes in the night.

It seems unlikely that weíll reach a consensus, yet it usually happens. Kind of wild! We still have lots of time to interact and pay attention so even if it seems impossible that half of us would agree to lynch one person now, we will likely get there by the deadline. Partly because most of us (based on my limited knowledge of a handful of games) will want a lynch, so as it gets closer to the deadline there will be some converging. And how we converge (or not) helps us have more to analyze in D2.

We could very much reach a consensus; it happens a lot.  But please please please PLEASE for the love of all things coffee-related, do not converge JUST so a lynch will happen.  There could be days in the future where it is more essential to lynch, many factors affect stuff like this.  But Day1, in an 18 player game, with 2 scumteams, and multiple roles that can save....that's checks every single box on the "is it reasonable to nolynch" survey.

It INFURIATES me that people see ~25% vs. 0% and then just mindlessly echo "ALWAYS lynch, ALWAYS lynch, ALWAYS lynch".  The issue is much more intricate than ~25% vs 0%.
Ok, that's off my chest.  I swear I won't bring up no-lynching again for a while.

Is it your opinion that as town it is potentially more advantageous on to forego a Day 1 lynch thus guaranteeing a saved potential mis-lynch, than having said lynch to go through and be able to be used later in the game?

Your logic makes perfect sense in regards to the here and now, but go and look at any town victory ever that goes through Day 4 - Day 6+.... it all comes back to how people interact with one and other. To remove the first of those interactions, the most purest of those interactions... is just I mean a bad idea.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: faust on February 26, 2019, 05:04:31 am
Your logic makes perfect sense in regards to the here and now, but go and look at any town victory ever that goes through Day 4 - Day 6+.... it all comes back to how people interact with one and other. To remove the first of those interactions, the most purest of those interactions... is just I mean a bad idea.
This is a gross misrepresentation. shraeye explicitly said that he does not want us to stop interaction, or push through a no lynch right away.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: raerae on February 26, 2019, 06:30:33 am
Anyway, care to guess why I voted for faust?

You missed the fact that he unvoted Uncle, didn't you?

Now, serious talk: anyone who knows Robz's meta, does he analyze setups? Does he like to break setups? Is he usually good at theory talk in general?

So, uncle claimed...well that makes him unlynchable, so he might as well be the IC for this day, right?

Vote: raerae, I happen to like e's reason to townread shraeye, and your vote seems like a good way to not play RVS, since he's not dying today.

And why can't shraeye be our lunch today? He seems just as on the table as everybody else?

@MiX, you never answered this, why can't shraeye be our lynch today?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Glooble on February 26, 2019, 06:42:05 am
Shraeye, thanks for explaining your feelings on no lynch a little better. I find you much less scummy now.

A) LYNCHES ARE NOT RANDOM  (I literally can't stress this enough)
B) people act like the only metric worth measuring is is-scum-dead.  There is value in having town alive, and that has to be factored in if you insist on only using math.  .

Whatís not random about a day one lynch? People form reads on the flimsiest evidence and cling to them. I donít trust my own day one reads and I canít trust anyone elseís because I have no evidence anyone else is town. It might not be completely random, but itís pretty close.

I think the more useful metric than dead town or alive scum is information. Once we know someoneís alignment, we can look back and what they said, what was said to them, and what was said about them and thatís when our reads become worth something. Chance of hitting scum scum is a viable argument against no lynch, but so is ďmore useful data points.Ē
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on February 26, 2019, 06:51:15 am
My few thoughts so far:

-ash is Towny
-UoS is probably Towny
-shraeye is scummy
-count me against no-lynching

Vote: shraeye

I had to go remind myself that Ashersky was even in the game, because I'd forgotten, even though I responded to him earlier!

How can you assert towniness based on what was at that point two in-game posts? :-P
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: faust on February 26, 2019, 06:54:33 am
How can you assert towniness based on what was at that point two in-game posts? :-P
If it is possible that 200 000 posts give you an indication of a person's alignment, then it is equally possible that 2 do.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on February 26, 2019, 09:17:42 am
Well Robz seems to be consistent with his meta, although it's what I expected from scum!robz, it's just null, so UnFoS.

@Jimmmmm, would you consider yourself a good D1 player? What's your scum meta?

I have a very strong feeling shraeye's big and abundant posts about nolynch exist solely for towncred. But it's working...I still think he's town. This is so weeeeird...

About faust:
Quote from: UmbrageOfSnow link=topic=19459.msg790103#msg790103  date=1551053028
I'd rather talk about how faust is scum and no one wants to think about why. I'm curious who picks up on what I'm thinking (other than faust) but it doesn't even seem like people care to think about this as a serious read right now.

I was talking about this and e's vote for faust when I asked why people are saying faust is scum. My vote's where it is because I townread e and UoS, and I haven't seen anything scum!faust wouldn't do this game. But Robz is right, so

Vote: Space

For his "how can you townread someone with 2 posts", which is cleverly his meta while justifying lack of reads through D1. Oh, and to answer it, townreads are relative, so if ash did something mildly towny and nothing scummy, that would be enough justification for a townread.

While I'm at it...how come no-one mentioned ash!plans? Severely dissapointed.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Glooble on February 26, 2019, 09:38:44 am
MiX, as a note please try and use the pronouns in people's signatures if they provide them. Space uses they/ them.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on February 26, 2019, 09:41:51 am

Vote: Space

For his "how can you townread someone with 2 posts", which is cleverly his meta while justifying lack of reads through D1. Oh, and to answer it, townreads are relative, so if ash did something mildly towny and nothing scummy, that would be enough justification for a townread.

While I'm at it...how come no-one mentioned ash!plans? Severely dissapointed.

Dude, Space is not a ďheĒ. There is a post from them earlier laying that out clearly. Pay attention to all the things folks say, not just the stuff that matters to you.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on February 26, 2019, 09:42:27 am
Vote: raerae, I happen to like e's reason to townread shraeye, and your vote seems like a good way to not play RVS, since he's not dying today.

And why can't shraeye be our lunch today? He seems just as on the table as everybody else?

@MiX, you never answered this, why can't shraeye be our lynch today?

Yes I did...

PPE 1: Because I have an uncanny ability to see the future; with this, I can predict that e won't flip his townread, and I expect to strenghten mine as well. I might be reading too much into this, being early D1 and all, but I use all information we have available.

PPE 2: Gah! I forgot...I knew this would happen, sorry Space, I really don't want you to tak about NAI things. Their and their. There, fixed!
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on February 26, 2019, 09:45:34 am

Vote: Space

For his "how can you townread someone with 2 posts", which is cleverly his meta while justifying lack of reads through D1.

How is it that you claim to know my meta, and yet manage to misgender me twice in one sentence? Either you've read my play before, in which case you'll have seen umpteen variations on the statement that I am not at all okay with "he/him" pronouns, or you haven't and are just looking for excuses to throw votes around.

Vote: MiX
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on February 26, 2019, 09:46:20 am
Huh.. there was a PPE 3 on that last post of mine, apparently!
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on February 26, 2019, 09:48:11 am

Vote: Space

For his "how can you townread someone with 2 posts", which is cleverly his meta while justifying lack of reads through D1.

How is it that you claim to know my meta, and yet manage to misgender me twice in one sentence? Either you've read my play before, in which case you'll have seen umpteen variations on the statement that I am not at all okay with "he/him" pronouns, or you haven't and are just looking for excuses to throw votes around.

Vote: MiX

I DO know that! I've seen games where you play and I've seen you get VERY upset about it. But I'm on mobile and I forgot, I'm sorry. Now, OMGUS?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on February 26, 2019, 09:52:26 am
vote: chickenwarlord

Random based on a look at the player list and settled on the when was the last time that player posted feeling I got.

Or is that a player no one calls by their name?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on February 26, 2019, 09:54:36 am
I feel like one Ferengi should claim and tell us what faction isn't in the game.  Obligatory WIFOM statement following a role point: that Ferengi doesn't have to be me, if I were in fact a Ferengi.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on February 26, 2019, 09:55:23 am
I feel like one Ferengi should claim and tell us what faction isn't in the game.  Obligatory WIFOM statement following a role point: that Ferengi doesn't have to be me, if I were in fact a Ferengi.

And I just reread that and it says not in their QT/UB, not game.  So nevermind.  No Ferengi, including maybe me, should share information now.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on February 26, 2019, 09:56:41 am
joth, in your Martok point, you mention the doctoring doesn't stop people from dying.  That includes the Doctor, too, right?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on February 26, 2019, 10:17:15 am
joth, in your Martok point, you mention the doctoring doesn't stop people from dying.  That includes the Doctor, too, right?

The bomb kills players who target with NKs, so not Bashir.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: faust on February 26, 2019, 10:44:42 am
I feel like one Ferengi should claim and tell us what faction isn't in the game.  Obligatory WIFOM statement following a role point: that Ferengi doesn't have to be me, if I were in fact a Ferengi.
Why do you need to know what faction isn't in the game?

I don't think this is worth further exposing Cop for.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Glooble on February 26, 2019, 10:54:26 am
I feel like one Ferengi should claim and tell us what faction isn't in the game.  Obligatory WIFOM statement following a role point: that Ferengi doesn't have to be me, if I were in fact a Ferengi.
Why do you need to know what faction isn't in the game?

I don't think this is worth further exposing Cop for.


If we were in fact able to get that information (which we can't) it would honestly help scum more than town at this point. If scum the scum team knows that the only other scum is a bulletproof sk, for example, they're going to focus on killing town PRs instead of targeting their own scum reads.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Glooble on February 26, 2019, 10:58:30 am
Although if there is at least one scum among the Ferengi, then that scum team already know the exact composition. But they could all be town.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Glooble on February 26, 2019, 11:02:30 am
vote: jimmmmm

or however many ms.

I'm feeling better about shraeye, I don't like the faust or e wagons, and I'd rather not lynch a brand new player for lurking (especially one I recruited.) Jimmm hasn't done anything but drop some reads which to me didn't look like they had much thought behind them.

But, chicken, you gotta get in here and contribute! To everyone here but me you are a completely unknown element. At least answer the questions directed at you.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on February 26, 2019, 11:08:13 am
joth, in your Martok point, you mention the doctoring doesn't stop people from dying.  That includes the Doctor, too, right?

I don't understand the question. Anyone who targets Martok with a nightkill gets killed, whether or not that nightkill happens. Unless they get roleblocked. People that target him with something else are fine.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: shraeye on February 26, 2019, 11:30:37 am

Hey DatSwan!

If I told you there was scum in {mcmcs, Glooble, Umbrage, Awaclus, Jimmmm}, would you think I was right or wrong?

wait I want follow up now that I have thought about it.

Same question back at you.

Yeah, I picked a set of players that I thought would be harder/more-informative to assess.  You're right that choosing 5 players is likely to include scum, but I tried to pick some players that hadn't left a big impression on me.  So I guess a hidden question was "is that more scummy or more towny?"  That's not a question with a straightforward answer either. 

For example, Umbrage has said a lot of words, but hasn't contributed much to interactions/reads so I think that is scummier.  mcmcs has said many fewer words, but when I look at them they are really pushing interactions and reads; so townier

I literally don't recall Awaclus posting anything.  So I'm feeling more like that's someone who was busy when the game got underfoot like you were.  But you showed up and immediately contributed, unlike them.  Jimmm has also contributed minimally, but more all-around instead of minimal-content but most of it is joking/unrelated .  So despite having similar levels, I'm reading Jimmm as townier than Awaclus.

Glooble has said a few things that I've had kneejerk reactions to, and things I disagree with, but has done some rereading/summarizing/opining.  I'm beginning to feel like I have kneejerk reactions to town more than scum (see M121).  That's an oversimplification, but it's enough for me to push Glooble towards the towny side of null.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: shraeye on February 26, 2019, 11:43:25 am
I feel like one Ferengi should claim and tell us what faction isn't in the game.  Obligatory WIFOM statement following a role point: that Ferengi doesn't have to be me, if I were in fact a Ferengi.
Why do you need to know what faction isn't in the game?

I don't think this is worth further exposing Cop for.


If we were in fact able to get that information (which we can't) it would honestly help scum more than town at this point. If scum the scum team knows that the only other scum is a bulletproof sk, for example, they're going to focus on killing town PRs instead of targeting their own scum reads.
This is true.  Ash should know that.  Welcome to the top of my suspicion list.


Glooble, you're going to have to walk me through your thought process.
If we were in fact able to get that information (which we can't)
This looks like you realize, like ash did, that the info is "not in QT" instead of "not in game".
Although if there is at least one scum among the Ferengi, then that scum team already know the exact composition.
But this looks like you still think, like ash originally did, that they know which faction isn't in the game.

And they were posted in that order, back-to-back.  It looks like an un-realization (instead of ash's realization)
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Glooble on February 26, 2019, 11:52:19 am
I'm happy to walk you through my though process. For the first post- the Ferengi only know what alignment one of the Ferengi are. That could be the alignment not in the game, if that's the only one that fits the bill. But all a town Ferengi would know is one alignment that no one in the QT has. I saw that Ash had realized this, but I also wanted to point out that if Ash's original assumption was true, i.e. that the Ferengi knew which alignment wasn't in the gaqme, it would still be bad for them to say because that knowledge helps scum more than it helps town.


After I made that post, it occurred to me that if at least one Ferengi was scum, they would already know which alignment wasn't in the game, since they have an additional piece of information- their own alignment. Which would be an argument in favor of sharing that information with town. But its all moot since a town Ferengi wouldn't have that info in the first place.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Glooble on February 26, 2019, 11:53:04 am
I'm happy to walk you through my though process. For the first post- the Ferengi only know what alignment one of the Ferengi are.


That's meant to say "none" not "one"
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Glooble on February 26, 2019, 11:59:38 am
Oh wait Iím dumb. I see what youíre saying now.

I donít know what I was thinking. Ignore the above.

No, a theoretical scum Ferengi doesnít actually no any more than a non-scum Ferengi until someone flips the opposite alignment.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Glooble on February 26, 2019, 12:00:15 pm
*know, not no.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on February 26, 2019, 12:02:07 pm
Glooble's explanation is consistent with what I would expect of "ash is wrong: even if this was true, he forgot about one thing. Oh, but that's not true, right. But even if it was, there's another thing that's wrong, so, yeah".

@Glooble, do you like setup talk and/or do you think you're good at it? Do you think you need to work harder D1 because of last game?

PPE 2: Ok now I'm actually confused...let's stop talking about hypotheticals that aren't true.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Glooble on February 26, 2019, 12:05:48 pm
Glooble's explanation is consistent with what I would expect of "ash is wrong: even if this was true, he forgot about one thing. Oh, but that's not true, right. But even if it was, there's another thing that's wrong, so, yeah".

@Glooble, do you like setup talk and/or do you think you're good at it? Do you think you need to work harder D1 because of last game?

PPE 2: Ok now I'm actually confused...let's stop talking about hypotheticals that aren't true.


Setup talk can be helpful. I've never understood why people think its scummy.


By last game do you mean Deep Space Nine Mafia 1 five years ago or Imperial Radch Mafia? Because I don't think I did anything wrong in Imperial Radch mafia, except maybe not hammering UoS after his bogus doctor claim.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on February 26, 2019, 12:29:27 pm
Vote Count 1.3

Far above Odo and Quark's bickering, Worf sits at another table opposite Kasidy Yates. He sips his prune juice with brooding severity.

"Thank you for joining me, Ms. Yates," he intones in his Klingon baritone. "There is an ... awkwardness... to this interview, given your relationship with the Captain. But he has charged me to find the Maquis spies, and given your former association with them, you were the logical person to start with."

"Of course, Worf," Kasidy says. "But I don't think I can help you much. I haven't had any contact with Maquis for a long time."

"I see. And have you encountered any ... former associates around the station?"

"I can't say that I have. If I hear anything I'll let you know."

"Thank you."

Kasidy decides to break the tense silence that follows.

"In the meantime, Ben, Jake and I are planning to play some baseball in the holosuite this weekend. We could use a good, strong pitcher like you. Care to join in?"

"Perhaps another time," the Klingon says. "I would rather not take time for recreation while this threat to the station remains."

"I'm sorry to hear that," Jadzia says, bounding up the spiral staircase to Quark's second level.

"I was hoping we could spar a little," she says flirtatiously. "Blow off some steam. But I guess I'll just have to join Quark's tongo game instead."

Jadzia playfully takes a swig of Worf's prune juice and skips back down the stairs, daring her boyfriend to follow.


faust (2): 2.71828....., UmbrageOfSnow
2.71828..... (2): mcmcsalot, Robz888
shraeye (2): raerae, Jimmmmm
UmbrageOfSnow (1): UncleEurope
Robz888 (1): faust
SpaceAnemone (1): MiX
MiX (1): SpaceAnemone
chickenwarlord (1): ashersky
Jimmmmm (1): Glooble

Not voting (6): LaLight, DatSwan, WestCoastDidds, Shraeye, Awaclus, chickenwarlord

With 18 alive, it takes 10 to lynch most players. Day 1 ends at 8 a.m. forum time on Saturday, March 2.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on February 26, 2019, 03:59:49 pm
Okay...I am finally catching up for real. I just read where we are at from the start. (Thanks, Joth, for the cool set up and all of the clarifications! You are doing a great job!) I had to go read about bus drivers and godfathers and millers and multiball... but now I think I understand where we are at. Here's what I am thinking about who we have playing...

Eddie is Gul, the hated godfather. Poor Eddie. We don't really hate you...you're the Uncle of Europe! Loved by all! But good to know. I don't think that claiming was a bad move.

MiX confuses me frequently. This is not all that interesting necessarily, but I do find it happening over and over again so I am going to say something now in case it starts happening when it matters. I find him really hard to follow. I don't think I think the same way he does about things, and it seems different than a wordsy person v. mathsy person distinction. I wonder if the experience of playing really fast games is significant? I am also troubled by the fact that he pays close attention to some posts and then glosses others. Why the selective attention paying? But he's new and I'd rather be friendlier than not at the outset, but still seems not quite right.

Shraeye and UoS are both writing big posts with lots of stuff, but not so much on the conclusions.  That has a quasi-helpfulness vibe without actually being helpful, especially when the posts are bossy or commanding. Shraeye makes some good points about why no lynch should be viable, but I am still on the side of lynching. UoS is helping fill in blanks about how some of the roles work and interact, which is likely useful.

I appreciate Glooble trying to suss out dimensions of the set-up that are helpful to everyone. (UoS is in this camp sometimes, too) I don't find anything scummy about him doing this. He definitely did nothing wrong in the Imperial Radch game.

Mcmc...hi! I'm so sorry that Asher killed you so early into the last game.  I was hoping I'd get to play with not-scum you for the first time ever!

DatSwan (hi! Sorry I quoted my role and got our QT cut short last game! Turns out quoting is a big deal! Who knew?!) always makes a lot of sense to me, even when he wanders about. I'm prone to wandering myself, so I usually follow him pretty well. It will take a lot for me to find him scummy for that kind of posting.

I don't see why UoS thinks faust is scummy. Faust doesn't seem scummy...just cranky. As anyone is likely to be when Something Is Wrong on the Internet.

E and Space are as I expected. I don't know them quite well enough to make judgements just yet but they are legit vets that play well and help town (when they are town) so I'm interested in seeing what they find interesting. Ashersky confuses me a bit, sometimes, but everything thus far has been straightforward. I am putting them all into a "not scummy" basket.

Then I have a "who?" basket for folks who are scarce. Robz has contributed little. Chicken even less. Awaclus stays around enough to keep up, but adds little.  Raerae is unknown to me, but I heartily appreciate her attitude and I like it when she gives Shraeye the business.  I also find it endearing that when I read the original DS9 game they were dating!  And now there is a kid! Love it! Jimmmmmm is unknown to me, too. And I don't have any real sense of him.

LaLight...how was the moving? I hope that you are not living among boxes for too long. Right now, due to the low level of interaction which is not very lalight-y at all, he's my most likely to be scum guess. So, I guess I'll vote: LaLight
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on February 26, 2019, 04:05:24 pm
See, that one I don't buy. If Eddie was scum and I his partner, and we decided to claim Gul Dukat, why on earth would I want to steal his thunder by proposing the plan before he ever had a chance to post?

What thunder would you be stealing exactly? There's no universe in which anyone fakeclaims Dukat, the only question is alignment, not role.

Also, I had somehow missed that the serial killer, if we have one, would be full BP rather than 1-shot, which does indeed change things although I'm not entirely sure how. Surviving an NK is a sort of soft Changeling cop for scum. Either way it doesn't change how I would use Bus Driver, successfully targeting one of the 2 scum making an NK turns Bus Driver into a vig shot, and there are two chances to guess right, with the other top guess being vigged.

Also, I think of this whenever I say busvig.
(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/BaggyScrawnyArawana-size_restricted.gif)
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on February 26, 2019, 04:13:40 pm

Whatís not random about a day one lynch? People form reads on the flimsiest evidence and cling to them. I donít trust my own day one reads and I canít trust anyone elseís because I have no evidence anyone else is town. It might not be completely random, but itís pretty close.

STOP BEING COMMITTED TO MAKING DAY 1 USELESS.

If there is a less than random chance of lynching scum on D1 (there is), it's because scum interact in a way to ensure town gets lynched. This is like the whole point of mafia.

If we don't have lunch, we go to bed hungry we wake up the next day with the same lack of information we'd have had on D1, minus whatever PRs learned, but we know the setup and the PRs aren't likely to solve the game on N1, and any useful results will out them.

And by the way, no one has rock solid reads or evidence on Day 2 or Day 3 either, and they are worse if there wasn't a Day 1 lynch. Who here has never been on a mislynch wagon as town? Hint: maybe one of the newbies, but that's it.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on February 26, 2019, 04:16:30 pm
@Jimmmmm, would you consider yourself a good D1 player? What's your scum meta?

Jimmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm will be completely useless Day 1. This is something I'm trying to fight against, because so many people are willfully useless Day 1, but Jimmmmm isn't going to be the one I convince I think. He's good in LYLO though (and he'll probably make it to LYLO if he's town because he won't be a threat to scum before then.)
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on February 26, 2019, 04:22:32 pm
While I'm at it...how come no-one mentioned ash!plans? Severely dissapointed.

I've been waiting for someone to jump on Ash for not having a plan, or Ash to roll out some half-baked plan to satisfy the masses.

The fact that he hasn't gives me a townread on Ash here, I think he caves to his own meta as scum. The fact that you bring it up... well it cancels out the townpoints I was giving you for actually seeming to look at Faust when I mentioned it.

...
Sigh. Then I read the next page and see Ash trying to find things to make up plans about right after you post this. I guess we can get out of this that Ash and MiX at least aren't on the same scumteam...
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on February 26, 2019, 04:23:58 pm
My #347 sounds harsh, but I actually like Jimmmm and think he's a smart guy. Just typically unengaged until crunchtime (and liable to being mislynched for it.)
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on February 26, 2019, 04:31:15 pm
Okay, since we're done playing my little game here, I may as well give my reasoning:

Faust is one of the players who gets the utility of Day 1. And his Dukat claiming talk is fine, but the desire to lynch UE didn't read like a reaction test to me, for a minute before he realized it was insanely anti-town for the UB to inherit Dukat's power if the UB is town, he wanted Dukat dead for strategy reasons.

And yeah, Dukat isn't likely to be the NK but he's sortable by reads later on. If we are possibly going into LYLO in the next day later in the game and don't decide we collectively trust him, it makes sense to lynch Unceeurope then, but doing it in the first couple real life days of Day 1 eliminates a lot of the utility Faust knows there can be in Day 1. And I think Town!faust realizes that.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on February 26, 2019, 04:31:36 pm
My #347 sounds harsh, but I actually like Jimmmm and think he's a smart guy. Just typically unengaged until crunchtime (and liable to being mislynched for it.)

I've realise what I really need to get into a game is for someone to come out gunning for me. It gives me something to focus on apart from "this is a big game with lots of people and I don't even know where to start".
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on February 26, 2019, 04:31:51 pm
realised*
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on February 26, 2019, 04:34:40 pm
My #347 sounds harsh, but I actually like Jimmmm and think he's a smart guy. Just typically unengaged until crunchtime (and liable to being mislynched for it.)

I've realise what I really need to get into a game is for someone to come out gunning for me. It gives me something to focus on apart from "this is a big game with lots of people and I don't even know where to start".

That's actually enough for me to

Vote: Jimmmmmmm

Let's see what you got.

Whatís not random about a day one lynch? People form reads on the flimsiest evidence and cling to them. I donít trust my own day one reads and I canít trust anyone elseís because I have no evidence anyone else is town. It might not be completely random, but itís pretty close.

STOP BEING COMMITTED TO MAKING DAY 1 USELESS.

UoS is town.

I'll have to look at Didds' wall post later, for now I'll do this.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on February 26, 2019, 04:36:32 pm
@Jimmmmm, would you consider yourself a good D1 player? What's your scum meta?

No, not at all. I find I need things to respond to, and D1 typically doesn't do a good job at providing that. Not that I'm blaming anyone but myself.

It's been a while since I've been scum, but I've had some pretty good scum games in the past, so I think I'm seen as a fairly strong scum player. Scum scum scum.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on February 26, 2019, 04:37:03 pm
My #347 sounds harsh, but I actually like Jimmmm and think he's a smart guy. Just typically unengaged until crunchtime (and liable to being mislynched for it.)

I've realise what I really need to get into a game is for someone to come out gunning for me. It gives me something to focus on apart from "this is a big game with lots of people and I don't even know where to start".

That's actually enough for me to

Vote: Jimmmmmmm

Let's see what you got.

A vote is not gunning for me.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on February 26, 2019, 04:43:51 pm
My #347 sounds harsh, but I actually like Jimmmm and think he's a smart guy. Just typically unengaged until crunchtime (and liable to being mislynched for it.)

I've realise what I really need to get into a game is for someone to come out gunning for me. It gives me something to focus on apart from "this is a big game with lots of people and I don't even know where to start".

That's actually enough for me to

Vote: Jimmmmmmm

Let's see what you got.

A vote is not gunning for me.

From my PoV:

- If you're town, you need an incentive to play D1. A vote on you means other town/scum can vote on you, creating a sizeable wagon. I think that would force you to pay attention to defend yourself, thus generate more pro-town content from you.

- If you're scum, you need to feel some pressure, even if it's just a vote now, others might join the wagon, forcing you to actually play D1, which, hopefully, makes you drop some scumslips or useful interactions that'll be useful for future days.

So it's strictly better for me to vote for you. Unless I misunderstood what gunning means (maybe it's just someone saying "YOU'RE SCUM YOU'RE SCUM HERE'S 50 REASONS WHY" but I hope not because I can't do that...), this seems to be foolproof, right?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Glooble on February 26, 2019, 04:48:52 pm

Whatís not random about a day one lynch? People form reads on the flimsiest evidence and cling to them. I donít trust my own day one reads and I canít trust anyone elseís because I have no evidence anyone else is town. It might not be completely random, but itís pretty close.

STOP BEING COMMITTED TO MAKING DAY 1 USELESS.


Stop misrepresenting my quotes.

I never said day one was useless. I said day one lynches are essentially random. That's not the same thing at all. The reasoning people give, the reads they express on each other, when votes get thrown around and for who - all of this is extremely useful, and gets more useful as the game goes on and its given context by concrete information.

On day one, we don't have that context. All we have are reads. And competent scum players can fool those a lot more easily than they can fool other scumhunting techniques that don't become viable until later in the game.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on February 26, 2019, 04:55:41 pm
Day 1 lynches aren't random though.

The more we assume there's no information to go off, the more random they become, but it isn't doomed to be that way. It's that way because people say, over and over and over "Day one is basically random, we have no information."

Good town have reads that are better than random. If scum are lynched Day 1, they (rightfully) lose the majority of games where scum is lynched on Day 1.

And the better we try to play on Day 1, the more scum have to commit to driving mislynches, which is good later on.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on February 26, 2019, 04:59:03 pm
MiX is hard to follow as town and presumably hard to follow as scum. I think he thinks differently than a lot of us.

Right now I think he'll be one of the players that's much easier to sort once we have some flips.

I'd say I don't want to lynch him Day 1 unless he basically scumclaims, but then we get into the don't lynch newbies Day 1, don't lynch good players Day 1, don't lynch hard-to-sort (Awaclus, MiX, Jimmm, Robz) Day 1 and pretty soon we can't lynch anyone.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on February 26, 2019, 04:59:54 pm
Stop misrepresenting my quotes.

What else do you feel I've misrepresented?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on February 26, 2019, 05:10:06 pm
There's a chickenwarlord in this game? Vote: Chickenwarlord
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Uncleeurope on February 26, 2019, 05:21:53 pm

Whatís not random about a day one lynch? People form reads on the flimsiest evidence and cling to them. I donít trust my own day one reads and I canít trust anyone elseís because I have no evidence anyone else is town. It might not be completely random, but itís pretty close.

STOP BEING COMMITTED TO MAKING DAY 1 USELESS.

UoS is town.


Not necessarily, the one thing I have learned about Snow from all these years is he loves a good rant, rants that he can replicate in any situation.

Not to say he is scum from this, just that ranting is Snow!Snow

IMO anyway.

Vote: Awaclus

Because it would happen eventually.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Glooble on February 26, 2019, 05:33:08 pm
Stop misrepresenting my quotes.

What else do you feel I've misrepresented?

Just that one, really.
MiX is hard to follow as town and presumably hard to follow as scum. I think he thinks differently than a lot of us.

Right now I think he'll be one of the players that's much easier to sort once we have some flips.

I'd say I don't want to lynch him Day 1 unless he basically scumclaims, but then we get into the don't lynch newbies Day 1, don't lynch good players Day 1, don't lynch hard-to-sort (Awaclus, MiX, Jimmm, Robz) Day 1 and pretty soon we can't lynch anyone.

Why wouldnít we lynch players who are hard to sort? Granted Iíve played one game with Awaclus, but in that one game 1. He was scum, 2. I kept saying he was scum, 3. People kept saying ďnah, thatís just Awaclus being Awaclus har har.Ē
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Glooble on February 26, 2019, 05:34:39 pm
Like if a playerís general style makes them hard to read, that player is a liability as town and especially dangerous as scum. Sounds like a great day 1 lynch to me.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on February 26, 2019, 05:37:21 pm
My #347 sounds harsh, but I actually like Jimmmm and think he's a smart guy. Just typically unengaged until crunchtime (and liable to being mislynched for it.)

I've realise what I really need to get into a game is for someone to come out gunning for me. It gives me something to focus on apart from "this is a big game with lots of people and I don't even know where to start".

That's actually enough for me to

Vote: Jimmmmmmm

Let's see what you got.

A vote is not gunning for me.

From my PoV:

- If you're town, you need an incentive to play D1. A vote on you means other town/scum can vote on you, creating a sizeable wagon. I think that would force you to pay attention to defend yourself, thus generate more pro-town content from you.

- If you're scum, you need to feel some pressure, even if it's just a vote now, others might join the wagon, forcing you to actually play D1, which, hopefully, makes you drop some scumslips or useful interactions that'll be useful for future days.

So it's strictly better for me to vote for you. Unless I misunderstood what gunning means (maybe it's just someone saying "YOU'RE SCUM YOU'RE SCUM HERE'S 50 REASONS WHY" but I hope not because I can't do that...), this seems to be foolproof, right?

That's more like it. :P
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: raerae on February 26, 2019, 05:39:59 pm
Like if a playerís general style makes them hard to read, that player is a liability as town and especially dangerous as scum. Sounds like a great day 1 lynch to me.

I'd generally agree but that got MiX killed D1 last game. I'm interested in letting MiX live one more day if only to see what he's like D2.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on February 26, 2019, 05:45:12 pm
I feel like I actually have a good track record with Jimmmmm and Awaclus. I want to say that about Robz but I'm not sure, I remember being right about scum Robz once, and then I know I've helped mislynch Robz a few times, but both those times I think I had an early townread on him and then grew to doubt it.

I think those players are more sortable the more game you have to go on.

I'd prefer to lynch scummiest player on Day 1, and being willing to lynch anyone makes it exciting.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on February 26, 2019, 06:14:56 pm
MiX confuses me frequently. This is not all that interesting necessarily, but I do find it happening over and over again so I am going to say something now in case it starts happening when it matters. I find him really hard to follow. I don't think I think the same way he does about things, and it seems different than a wordsy person v. mathsy person distinction. I wonder if the experience of playing really fast games is significant? I am also troubled by the fact that he pays close attention to some posts and then glosses others. Why the selective attention paying? But he's new and I'd rather be friendlier than not at the outset, but still seems not quite right.

Now that I got around to read Didds' wall post, I just want to say that, although I don't answer to literally every post, I use them to write a little document with what said posts had and how they shape my reads on people. If you have a post that you think I missed, please quote which one.

What do you think about shraeye/UoS/Glooble? Do you think they're towny, scummy or null for their setup talk?


@UoS, that is a...very good case on faust. Very interesting. The only problem is that I felt the same thing: Uncle needs to die eventually, why not now, oh right, we can just postpone it. But I'm not sure faust would think the same way as me...

@Chicken, at this point I feel like voting for you to see if you wake up, I know that in my first game, I wanted to make a big impression, I believe you should try to do the same: it's pro town, it sets you up for future days, and it helps for future games if those ever exist. So overall it's a pretty good deal!


I want to kill you as fast as possible. WHy are you voting for the VLA guy? You make a good point for Snow, but I'm not sure scum!Snow would grab this much towncred as agressively as she is...

Like if a playerís general style makes them hard to read, that player is a liability as town and especially dangerous as scum. Sounds like a great day 1 lynch to me.

As one of these players, I don't really understand why hard-to-read players are a liability as town. They would be if their reads are bad or if they're anti town, but being hard to read is not an anti-town ability, as Awaclus would surely tell you. Oh, unless he thinks he's easy to get townread as town, in which case he's incredibly wrong.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Glooble on February 26, 2019, 06:24:22 pm


Like if a playerís general style makes them hard to read, that player is a liability as town and especially dangerous as scum. Sounds like a great day 1 lynch to me.

As one of these players, I don't really understand why hard-to-read players are a liability as town. They would be if their reads are bad or if they're anti town, but being hard to read is not an anti-town ability, as Awaclus would surely tell you. Oh, unless he thinks he's easy to get townread as town, in which case he's incredibly wrong.

If a player always comes off as scummy it makes them more likely to get mislynched when theyíre town, it throws off other players reads and, as Awaclus demonstrated in RMM51, it makes it easy for them to hide behind their meta when they actually are scum.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Awaclus on February 26, 2019, 06:27:26 pm
I don't always come off as scummy.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Glooble on February 26, 2019, 06:31:33 pm
I don't always come off as scummy.

So far Iím not actually reading you as scummy this game. Hence why Iím voting for Jimmmmm right now.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on February 26, 2019, 09:12:12 pm
Like if a playerís general style makes them hard to read, that player is a liability as town and especially dangerous as scum. Sounds like a great day 1 lynch to me.

I think Iíve played most of my games with Awa and he is almost always in lynch discussions and itís rarely a hard sell. Interestingly, the only time Iíve played with Scum!Awa was in the last game when he seemed towny and helpful. So now I think helpfulness may be a scum behavior from him. And being obstructionist is town, but not at all helpful to town from a communal-game perspective. Iím not sure what my conclusion to these thoughts are except that it wonít take much to push an Awa lynch, which scum can use as easily as town can.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on February 26, 2019, 10:26:38 pm
joth, in your Martok point, you mention the doctoring doesn't stop people from dying.  That includes the Doctor, too, right?

I don't understand the question. Anyone who targets Martok with a nightkill gets killed, whether or not that nightkill happens. Unless they get roleblocked. People that target him with something else are fine.

Yeah, I though anyone who targets the bomb is killed. I guess thatís more PGO.  Itís an acceptable Bomb variant, too, I think.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on February 26, 2019, 10:27:13 pm
I feel like one Ferengi should claim and tell us what faction isn't in the game.  Obligatory WIFOM statement following a role point: that Ferengi doesn't have to be me, if I were in fact a Ferengi.
Why do you need to know what faction isn't in the game?

I don't think this is worth further exposing Cop for.

What cop are you planning on exposing? 
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on February 26, 2019, 10:31:19 pm
I'm happy to walk you through my though process. For the first post- the Ferengi only know what alignment one of the Ferengi are. That could be the alignment not in the game, if that's the only one that fits the bill. But all a town Ferengi would know is one alignment that no one in the QT has. I saw that Ash had realized this, but I also wanted to point out that if Ash's original assumption was true, i.e. that the Ferengi knew which alignment wasn't in the gaqme, it would still be bad for them to say because that knowledge helps scum more than it helps town.


After I made that post, it occurred to me that if at least one Ferengi was scum, they would already know which alignment wasn't in the game, since they have an additional piece of information- their own alignment. Which would be an argument in favor of sharing that information with town. But its all moot since a town Ferengi wouldn't have that info in the first place.

I think Glooble ended up thinking he was wrong somewhere, but heís kind of right. If scum is in the neighborhood and is told there is no town in the hood, they know the exact setup alignment wise.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: DatSwan on February 26, 2019, 10:32:44 pm
Your logic makes perfect sense in regards to the here and now, but go and look at any town victory ever that goes through Day 4 - Day 6+.... it all comes back to how people interact with one and other. To remove the first of those interactions, the most purest of those interactions... is just I mean a bad idea.
This is a gross misrepresentation. shraeye explicitly said that he does not want us to stop interaction, or push through a no lynch right away.

Phrasing confusion? I am not suggesting otherwise - just my opinion on the topic and why. "interaction" in this context was to mean "a flip + pages from Day 1".
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: DatSwan on February 26, 2019, 10:43:16 pm
Vote: chickenwarlord
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: faust on February 27, 2019, 12:44:44 am
See, that one I don't buy. If Eddie was scum and I his partner, and we decided to claim Gul Dukat, why on earth would I want to steal his thunder by proposing the plan before he ever had a chance to post?

What thunder would you be stealing exactly? There's no universe in which anyone fakeclaims Dukat, the only question is alignment, not role.
The thunder that comes from him claiming out of his own volition and would possibly give him towncred.

Also, I had somehow missed that the serial killer, if we have one, would be full BP rather than 1-shot, which does indeed change things although I'm not entirely sure how. Surviving an NK is a sort of soft Changeling cop for scum. Either way it doesn't change how I would use Bus Driver, successfully targeting one of the 2 scum making an NK turns Bus Driver into a vig shot, and there are two chances to guess right, with the other top guess being vigged.
It doesn't really though. If the NK originally targeted one of your scum reads, then it already was like a vig shot.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: faust on February 27, 2019, 12:50:25 am
Okay, since we're done playing my little game here, I may as well give my reasoning:

Faust is one of the players who gets the utility of Day 1. And his Dukat claiming talk is fine, but the desire to lynch UE didn't read like a reaction test to me, for a minute before he realized it was insanely anti-town for the UB to inherit Dukat's power if the UB is town, he wanted Dukat dead for strategy reasons.

And yeah, Dukat isn't likely to be the NK but he's sortable by reads later on. If we are possibly going into LYLO in the next day later in the game and don't decide we collectively trust him, it makes sense to lynch Unceeurope then, but doing it in the first couple real life days of Day 1 eliminates a lot of the utility Faust knows there can be in Day 1. And I think Town!faust realizes that.
I wanted Dukat dead for strategy reasons. Lynching Dukat means not lynching a useful PR. It also means removing a liability. Of course the UB changes the first part, and makes it so that it largely does not matter whom we lynch from a PR perspective.

Much as I like D1s, I also like utilizing setup info to my advantage, and in an open setup if there is a good plan it outweighs reads for me. Especially in multiball where scum can legitimately scumhunt and thus is even harder to catch.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: faust on February 27, 2019, 12:54:54 am
Like if a playerís general style makes them hard to read, that player is a liability as town and especially dangerous as scum. Sounds like a great day 1 lynch to me.

I'd generally agree but that got MiX killed D1 last game. I'm interested in letting MiX live one more day if only to see what he's like D2.
It didn't really. MiX provided a lot of info and was active. There was a lot that could have been analyzed later on. That's really not the sort of player I consider hard to read. And noone to my knowledge made that argument in the other game. He was lynched because people perceived him as scummy.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: faust on February 27, 2019, 12:55:55 am
Wondering - what do people think their Chickenwarlord votes will achieve?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: DatSwan on February 27, 2019, 01:43:20 am
Wondering - what do people think their Chickenwarlord votes will achieve?

Why is voting for them different than voting for any other player?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Chickenwarlord on February 27, 2019, 01:44:16 am
Make sure you make a post in the forums somewhere outside the forum games section, this will prevent having to do a captcha each time you post.
Would be nice for finding your posts if you added you ShuffleIT Username or a distinguishable signature to your profile.
Can you tell us about your prior experience and what your preferred pronouns are?
Hopefully my signature is now somewhat searchable for clarity.

Prior mafia experience is basically all in person stuff. This is my first time in a play by post mafia engine. I can already see that there's a lot more theorydiving and conjecture than IRL setups.

Preferred pronoun is he.

Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Chickenwarlord on February 27, 2019, 02:14:04 am
@Chicken, at this point I feel like voting for you to see if you wake up, I know that in my first game, I wanted to make a big impression, I believe you should try to do the same: it's pro town, it sets you up for future days, and it helps for future games if those ever exist. So overall it's a pretty good deal!
I mean Day 1 is really difficult to get a good read out of people, but if we want post super unsubstantiated suspicions I'd be willing to wager that Ashersky and Faust are town.
I definitely want to wait for more info before throwing any fingers.
Vote: No Lynch
At least until there are some more actual claims out in the open or some compelling arguments.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: faust on February 27, 2019, 02:18:37 am
Wondering - what do people think their Chickenwarlord votes will achieve?

Why is voting for them different than voting for any other player?
Other people have posted.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on February 27, 2019, 02:19:32 am
I haven't posted for a while, sorry. I will try to put some thoughts down later today
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Chickenwarlord on February 27, 2019, 02:26:20 am
It also stands to reason that the 'listening intently for verbal tripups so you can point out inconsistencies' style of play doesn't really translate so well to play by post, since it just seems like one isn't there. Having the ability to carefully craft a reply rather than wordsplurge also kind of puts a damper on it too.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on February 27, 2019, 03:09:01 am
I understand your willingness to No Lynch, chicken, as that tends to be optimal in primitive setups, where the cop's super important. This is less true here, where, since every single post is saved, you want everyone to interact early, to generate information useful in later days. The easiest way to do this is to (at least try to) lynch someone, so people have to put down reads and stand by their words and actions.

@UoS: if scum fails to NK, it could also be scum!Kira (apart from doc/bus driver).
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: LaLight on February 27, 2019, 03:50:17 am
Vote: LaLight

This will be 3 scum games in a row, right?

M120, RMM51, and this game. They are on a streak! You can beat WW's streak, I know it!

there was also the Newbie game, so I had 4 in a row. But this ended in the Philosophers finally, I am really happy to get town then and now
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Chickenwarlord on February 27, 2019, 04:01:54 am
I understand your willingness to No Lynch, chicken, as that tends to be optimal in primitive setups, where the cop's super important. This is less true here, where, since every single post is saved, you want everyone to interact early, to generate information useful in later days. The easiest way to do this is to (at least try to) lynch someone, so people have to put down reads and stand by their words and actions.

@UoS: if scum fails to NK, it could also be scum!Kira (apart from doc/bus driver).
It's true that the prospect of all 3 role cops gleaning information from the first night was at least partially on my mind. However, I'm now realizing that they're not all necessarily town-aligned and the fact that we might not even get anybody to step forward with that info is pretty likely.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on February 27, 2019, 04:04:41 am
vote: 2.7 he doesnít feel as genuine as he normally does to me. Hasnít come across as towny and he normally does pretty early.

This is my thought as well as I am rereading

vote: 2.71828.....
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on February 27, 2019, 04:06:37 am
yeah, I don't want to lynch MiX, not yet. Robz lately is paying his meta in the thread trying to seem town but usually ends up as scum. hmmm

So why are you scumreading Robz, Lalight?

I don't know, Robz' meta changed during last couple of years we are playing with him and he is really struggling with activity when he's scum. Up to this point I can't remember a single post from him other than "let's end D1 quicklynching someone"
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on February 27, 2019, 04:15:20 am
ok, I'm pretty much finished with the reread. There's a lot of people and I struggle to wrap it all up, but I have some townreads and couple of scumreads, top one of each is 2.7
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on February 27, 2019, 04:15:32 am
ok, I'm pretty much finished with the reread. There's a lot of people and I struggle to wrap it all up, but I have some townreads and couple of scumreads, top one of each is 2.7

of which.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on February 27, 2019, 04:16:35 am
Unfortunately I am not expecting being superactive on D1, sorry. I will get to it eventually unless I'm killed or lynched
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on February 27, 2019, 06:09:25 am
Wondering - what do people think their Chickenwarlord votes will achieve?

Why is voting for them different than voting for any other player?
Other people have posted.

He'd made 2 in-game posts by then! Isn't that equivalent to 200 000 posts for determining his alignment? :-)
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: faust on February 27, 2019, 06:13:48 am
Wondering - what do people think their Chickenwarlord votes will achieve?

Why is voting for them different than voting for any other player?
Other people have posted.

He'd made 2 in-game posts by then! Isn't that equivalent to 200 000 posts for determining his alignment? :-)
1. Please stop misrepresenting what I say.
2. If they got an alignment read from Chickenwarlord's posts, then that is totally fine and they can say so, it's a valid answer.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on February 27, 2019, 08:18:19 am
vote: 2.7 he doesnít feel as genuine as he normally does to me. Hasnít come across as towny and he normally does pretty early.

This is my thought as well as I am rereading

vote: 2.71828.....

Why? I don't think I've seen cases against e and he seems pretty town to me. Also, sheeping a meh, if not bad, vote is just...lazy, as (I think) Didds put it. Scumpoints!

I also have to say that I've been reading the QTs of M121, and I saw this in the mason one...

LaLight: "...By the way MiX when you read this, sorry!"

That is so adorable. FoS: LaLight, because having 2 votes is double the power!

@faust, what makes you think Swan didn't get a scumread from chicken?

Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: faust on February 27, 2019, 08:29:45 am
@faust, what makes you think Swan didn't get a scumread from chicken?
The fact that he didn't say that he did.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: faust on February 27, 2019, 08:41:12 am
I'm happy to walk you through my though process. For the first post- the Ferengi only know what alignment one of the Ferengi are. That could be the alignment not in the game, if that's the only one that fits the bill. But all a town Ferengi would know is one alignment that no one in the QT has. I saw that Ash had realized this, but I also wanted to point out that if Ash's original assumption was true, i.e. that the Ferengi knew which alignment wasn't in the gaqme, it would still be bad for them to say because that knowledge helps scum more than it helps town.


After I made that post, it occurred to me that if at least one Ferengi was scum, they would already know which alignment wasn't in the game, since they have an additional piece of information- their own alignment. Which would be an argument in favor of sharing that information with town. But its all moot since a town Ferengi wouldn't have that info in the first place.

I think Glooble ended up thinking he was wrong somewhere, but heís kind of right. If scum is in the neighborhood and is told there is no town in the hood, they know the exact setup alignment wise.
Wait that can happen? ... apparently yes. That would be hilarious but also a bit broken. I assume joth would reroll it.

Also it is not true. If there are no town in there, only the faction that has only one player in there would know which multiball it is.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on February 27, 2019, 08:45:35 am
Wrong: because there's 4 Ferengi: UB also included in the no-town.

I was thinking about this very scenario pregame, and it's definitely possible, don't see why not...actually, Could the above be considered balanced? That is, Ferengi know there's no town?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on February 27, 2019, 09:01:39 am
I guess my vote on 2.7 was more useful. Vote: 2.7
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: faust on February 27, 2019, 09:36:02 am
Wrong: because there's 4 Ferengi: UB also included in the no-town.
Still 2 scum from team 1 could be Ferengi and the third a UB, and they would not know whether the third Ferengi was SK or not.

... I had to.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: faust on February 27, 2019, 09:37:32 am
I guess my vote on 2.7 was more useful. Vote: 2.7
I guess my vote is still useful!
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on February 27, 2019, 09:41:40 am
You guys are hilarious. The alignment the Ferengi are informed about cannot be Station. If the setup rolled such that all scum teams were represented in the Ferengi + UB, it would call for a reroll. they would just be told the non-existent scum team.

I mean, that would make for a very funny game, but it would either make the Neighborhood useless or basically make the scum teams into one mega-scum team.

Edit: I messed this up a bit.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on February 27, 2019, 09:51:24 am
One mega-scumteam would be very bad indeed.
And Ferengi that powerful would have created a very different DS9.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: faust on February 27, 2019, 09:57:25 am
You guys are hilarious. The alignment the Ferengi are informed about cannot be Station. If the setup rolled such that all scum teams were represented in the Ferengi + UB, it would call for a reroll.
That's ... surprising. I mean 2 scumteams in there would mean that they still could have been informed about the third (non-existing) scumteam, and thus would not know each other's alignment. But this statement pretty definitely says that there is one town in Ferengi + UB. Which probably does not help us much, but still.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on February 27, 2019, 09:58:41 am
vote: 2.7 he doesnít feel as genuine as he normally does to me. Hasnít come across as towny and he normally does pretty early.

This is my thought as well as I am rereading

vote: 2.71828.....

Why? I don't think I've seen cases against e and he seems pretty town to me. Also, sheeping a meh, if not bad, vote is just...lazy, as (I think) Didds put it. Scumpoints!

I also have to say that I've been reading the QTs of M121, and I saw this in the mason one...

LaLight: "...By the way MiX when you read this, sorry!"

That is so adorable. FoS: LaLight, because having 2 votes is double the power!

@faust, what makes you think Swan didn't get a scumread from chicken?

idk, I am pretty good at gut reads and e has a lot of content but none of it stroke me as townie.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: faust on February 27, 2019, 10:03:54 am
idk, I am pretty good at gut reads and e has a lot of content but none of it stroke me as townie.
I never knew scums strokes your gut differently than town does!
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on February 27, 2019, 10:10:05 am
idk, I am pretty good at gut reads and e has a lot of content but none of it stroke me as townie.
I never knew scums strokes your gut differently than town does!

Towns are much guttier and scum is much stokier
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on February 27, 2019, 10:15:40 am
Wait a minute, I don't know what I was thinking before. There is always a scum faction not in the game. If every scum faction is represented in the Ferengi, they are told the faction not in the game. Never town. But also, not necessarily grounds for a re-roll. Apologies for getting that wrong before.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on February 27, 2019, 10:22:42 am
So you pick who the Ferengi/UB are before randomizing what the Ferengi know? Let's assume there's 2/2 scum in the ferengi/UB: if you were to roll for Ferengi to know there's no Station-aligned, would you reroll all roles, or just the info (thus eventually making said info be "there's no changeling")?

I believe this may prove useful for probabilities.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: faust on February 27, 2019, 10:24:24 am
Wait a minute, I don't know what I was thinking before. There is always a scum faction not in the game. If every scum faction is represented in the Ferengi, they are told the faction not in the game. Never town. But also, not necessarily grounds for a re-roll. Apologies for getting that wrong before.
Well thanks I guess, but we still know that this did not happen as otherwise you would not have messed it up.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: raerae on February 27, 2019, 11:01:48 am
Like if a playerís general style makes them hard to read, that player is a liability as town and especially dangerous as scum. Sounds like a great day 1 lynch to me.

I'd generally agree but that got MiX killed D1 last game. I'm interested in letting MiX live one more day if only to see what he's like D2.
It didn't really. MiX provided a lot of info and was active. There was a lot that could have been analyzed later on. That's really not the sort of player I consider hard to read. And noone to my knowledge made that argument in the other game. He was lynched because people perceived him as scummy.

I was looking at "hard to read" as in not obviously of one alignment. I think you (or Joseph maybe?) thought he was town all the way and others read him as scum.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: faust on February 27, 2019, 11:06:25 am
Like if a playerís general style makes them hard to read, that player is a liability as town and especially dangerous as scum. Sounds like a great day 1 lynch to me.

I'd generally agree but that got MiX killed D1 last game. I'm interested in letting MiX live one more day if only to see what he's like D2.
It didn't really. MiX provided a lot of info and was active. There was a lot that could have been analyzed later on. That's really not the sort of player I consider hard to read. And noone to my knowledge made that argument in the other game. He was lynched because people perceived him as scummy.

I was looking at "hard to read" as in not obviously of one alignment. I think you (or Joseph maybe?) thought he was town all the way and others read him as scum.
In that case there is really nothing special about MiX in that regard.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: raerae on February 27, 2019, 11:14:12 am
Like if a playerís general style makes them hard to read, that player is a liability as town and especially dangerous as scum. Sounds like a great day 1 lynch to me.

I'd generally agree but that got MiX killed D1 last game. I'm interested in letting MiX live one more day if only to see what he's like D2.
It didn't really. MiX provided a lot of info and was active. There was a lot that could have been analyzed later on. That's really not the sort of player I consider hard to read. And noone to my knowledge made that argument in the other game. He was lynched because people perceived him as scummy.

I was looking at "hard to read" as in not obviously of one alignment. I think you (or Joseph maybe?) thought he was town all the way and others read him as scum.
In that case there is really nothing special about MiX in that regard.

I feel like you're being difficult here on purpose. You know his posting style is divisive and that's what I was getting at. Regardless, I'm standing by not lynching him D1 barring any obvious slips.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on February 27, 2019, 11:21:07 am
Like if a playerís general style makes them hard to read, that player is a liability as town and especially dangerous as scum. Sounds like a great day 1 lynch to me.

I'd generally agree but that got MiX killed D1 last game. I'm interested in letting MiX live one more day if only to see what he's like D2.
It didn't really. MiX provided a lot of info and was active. There was a lot that could have been analyzed later on. That's really not the sort of player I consider hard to read. And noone to my knowledge made that argument in the other game. He was lynched because people perceived him as scummy.

I was looking at "hard to read" as in not obviously of one alignment. I think you (or Joseph maybe?) thought he was town all the way and others read him as scum.
In that case there is really nothing special about MiX in that regard.

I feel like you're being difficult here on purpose. You know his posting style is divisive and that's what I was getting at. Regardless, I'm standing by not lynching him D1 barring any obvious slips.

You did say "hard to read" was not obviously being of one alignment. That's just asking to get answered like faust did. And what do you mean divisive, can you point out examples? I'm really trying not to do the same thing as the first game and I wanted to know what I did wrong then/now.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: raerae on February 27, 2019, 11:51:31 am
Like if a playerís general style makes them hard to read, that player is a liability as town and especially dangerous as scum. Sounds like a great day 1 lynch to me.

I'd generally agree but that got MiX killed D1 last game. I'm interested in letting MiX live one more day if only to see what he's like D2.
It didn't really. MiX provided a lot of info and was active. There was a lot that could have been analyzed later on. That's really not the sort of player I consider hard to read. And noone to my knowledge made that argument in the other game. He was lynched because people perceived him as scummy.

I was looking at "hard to read" as in not obviously of one alignment. I think you (or Joseph maybe?) thought he was town all the way and others read him as scum.
In that case there is really nothing special about MiX in that regard.

I feel like you're being difficult here on purpose. You know his posting style is divisive and that's what I was getting at. Regardless, I'm standing by not lynching him D1 barring any obvious slips.

You did say "hard to read" was not obviously being of one alignment. That's just asking to get answered like faust did. And what do you mean divisive, can you point out examples? I'm really trying not to do the same thing as the first game and I wanted to know what I did wrong then/now.

It isn't one particular thing I can quote, it's your whole style, it's just different. You're like that person who cornered me at a math party to talk about prime numbers once, it was just A LOT and that doesn't make it bad but just something I want expecting and didn't know how to handle.  I don't think you should change your style unless you want to and I'm not going to coach you about how you should play because we all have our own way. You do you.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on February 27, 2019, 01:09:11 pm
So you pick who the Ferengi/UB are before randomizing what the Ferengi know? Let's assume there's 2/2 scum in the ferengi/UB: if you were to roll for Ferengi to know there's no Station-aligned, would you reroll all roles, or just the info (thus eventually making said info be "there's no changeling")?

I believe this may prove useful for probabilities.

Figuring out what to tell the Ferengi is the last step of the setup roll. I identify the options and then, if there's more than one, pick one at random. The possible options are Mirror Universe, Maquis, and Changeling (not Station).

Wait a minute, I don't know what I was thinking before. There is always a scum faction not in the game. If every scum faction is represented in the Ferengi, they are told the faction not in the game. Never town. But also, not necessarily grounds for a re-roll. Apologies for getting that wrong before.
Well thanks I guess, but we still know that this did not happen as otherwise you would not have messed it up.

Given the magnitude of my brain fart there (literally forgetting the basic tenet of my own setup, that only two of the possible three factions exist) I wouldn't draw any conclusions. Don't underestimate my capacity to screw up.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on February 27, 2019, 02:21:02 pm
Wondering - what do people think their Chickenwarlord votes will achieve?

Why is voting for them different than voting for any other player?
Other people have posted.

He'd made 2 in-game posts by then! Isn't that equivalent to 200 000 posts for determining his alignment? :-)
1. Please stop misrepresenting what I say.
2. If they got an alignment read from Chickenwarlord's posts, then that is totally fine and they can say so, it's a valid answer.

I feel like I wasn't particularly misrepresenting you, unless I misunderstand something. When you made that comment to me, I'd expressed surprise that someone had any read on Ash from two posts, and you suggested that it's possible to read alignment from two posts if it's possible for 200K posts. Then when discussing Chickenwarlord, you equated his two posts to an implied zero posts (because "other people have posted"). What did I miss?

FWIW, I think unless there's something with the information content of an undisputable scumslip, then any post can only give partial indication of an alignment, and you need an accumulation of posts before anyone's alignment swings significantly away from the default assumption. (I'm feeling pleased with myself for not saying "prior" after that whole discussion with Haddock in your Radch mafia game).
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on February 27, 2019, 03:07:40 pm
I wanted Dukat dead for strategy reasons. Lynching Dukat means not lynching a useful PR. It also means removing a liability. Of course the UB changes the first part, and makes it so that it largely does not matter whom we lynch from a PR perspective.

Much as I like D1s, I also like utilizing setup info to my advantage, and in an open setup if there is a good plan it outweighs reads for me. Especially in multiball where scum can legitimately scumhunt and thus is even harder to catch.

And that's better (disregarding the UB and PR usefulness) than lynching Dukat the day before LYLO why?

Also, are you giving Uncleeurope less towncred for his claim because you suggested it?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: shraeye on February 27, 2019, 03:27:09 pm
vote: 2.7 he doesnít feel as genuine as he normally does to me. Hasnít come across as towny and he normally does pretty early.

This is my thought as well as I am rereading

vote: 2.71828.....
I don't get it; this is the...third?...vote on e which feels like it's just sheeping what I still think is the scummiest reasoning I've seen so far.  Sure, metas, I get it. But "feels genuine" is an easy box to pretend somebody no longer is sitting in, since it's all subjective.


Like, "being scummy" isn't a meta.  Being sarcastic is.
Why wouldnít we lynch players who are hard to sort? Granted Iíve played one game with Awaclus, but in that one game 1. He was scum, 2. I kept saying he was scum, 3. People kept saying ďnah, thatís just Awaclus being Awaclus har har.Ē
There is merit to seeing if somebody's actions are out of character.  Like if raerae is sarcastic, and people say "because she's so sarcastic she must be scum"...then they're wrong.  That's not giving raerae cover to be scummy, it's just explaining how she is so we can interpret her other actions around it.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: shraeye on February 27, 2019, 03:27:52 pm
That is so adorable. FoS: LaLight, because having 2 votes is double the power!

What did I miss?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: shraeye on February 27, 2019, 03:28:16 pm
Okay, since we're done playing my little game here, I may as well give my reasoning:

Faust is one of the players who gets the utility of Day 1. And his Dukat claiming talk is fine, but the desire to lynch UE didn't read like a reaction test to me, for a minute before he realized it was insanely anti-town for the UB to inherit Dukat's power if the UB is town, he wanted Dukat dead for strategy reasons.

And yeah, Dukat isn't likely to be the NK but he's sortable by reads later on. If we are possibly going into LYLO in the next day later in the game and don't decide we collectively trust him, it makes sense to lynch Unceeurope then, but doing it in the first couple real life days of Day 1 eliminates a lot of the utility Faust knows there can be in Day 1. And I think Town!faust realizes that.
I think I pulled a hamstring trying to follow that stretch.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on February 27, 2019, 03:29:35 pm
That is so adorable. FoS: LaLight, because having 2 votes is double the power!

What did I miss?

What do you mean by this?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: shraeye on February 27, 2019, 04:09:39 pm
For you to explain what you mean, because it doesn't align with my worldview.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on February 27, 2019, 04:53:21 pm
Wow take one day off and Iím 5 pages behind
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on February 27, 2019, 04:56:00 pm
Wow take one day off and Iím 5 pages behind

So. Many. Players.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on February 27, 2019, 04:56:35 pm
For you to explain what you mean, because it doesn't align with my worldview.

In a big game like this, I feel it's useful to use votes and FoSes to approach 2 different angles at the same time. This means I cover twice as much ground with my voting, which in turn means FoS acts like a vote. This might not be the best idea, but I didn't want to drop my vote on Jimmmmm just to apply some pressure to LL, so I thought it made sense here. I've used this reasoning on my FoS, where I liked my vote on faust but wanted to apply pressure on Robz, something that wasn't possible if I dropped the vote on faust.

Is that enough, shraeye? I want you to have a solid read on me so what happened last time doesn't happen this game too...at least have real cases behind my mislynch.

@mcmc, I was almost going to call you scummy for voting for e and then dissapearing; actually, can you explain your e vote? That seems to be a big deal now with people sheeping it.

@Robz, why are you voting for chicken? Did his recent posts change anything?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on February 27, 2019, 05:01:00 pm
I moved back to E.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on February 27, 2019, 05:02:33 pm
That is so adorable. FoS: LaLight, because having 2 votes is double the power!

What did I miss?

What do you mean by this?

Are you the double voter MiX?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on February 27, 2019, 05:06:53 pm
That is so adorable. FoS: LaLight, because having 2 votes is double the power!

What did I miss?

What do you mean by this?

Are you the double voter MiX?

Vote: Didds

PR Hunting. Yeah, I highly doubt this is your town meta, look at this post and read it VERY CAREFULLY:

Other things worth saying at this time:

  • Cops should aim for their scumreads rather than townreads, innocents are at best half useless and possibly completely useless
  • Cops should only claim results on a guilty or if they are about to be lynched
  • Crumbing roles is terrible here and should be avoided
  • Crumbing innocent results should be kept pretty subtle, it's a much bigger deal to out yourself than for us to miss the crumb
  • Sisko should target a scumread every night, hitting an NK well worth the risk of blocking town
  • Sisko shouldn't claim if there are fewer NKs than expected, too many things can do that, but he should heavily suspect his previous night's target
  • Bashir, Garak, Yates, and Winn should really be saving their shots for as late in the game as they think they can manage
  • Garak really needs to crumb his bus driver targets if he uses that one (I would)

Bolding is mine: Take a good long look at it. Now realize your mistake. Please state everything about your thought process that lead you to post that. Now, please.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on February 27, 2019, 05:59:27 pm
Dude, you can take off of the bossy boots right now. You don't get to order me, or anyone else, around. It's scummy AF in the game and in life, and I am not having it.

You said "That is so adorable. FoS: LaLight, because having 2 votes is double the power!"

Sure seems like you are saying you have two votes, I am not the only one confused, and you're FoS is just as good as a vote discussion is nonsensical to me. And no one says anyone has to obey UoS list of rules to be followed about roles, so I'm not sure that you are although you are quoting it here like its part of the setup.

I didn't make a mistake. I read more carefully than you do (see the Space gender discussion that you either didn't read or disregarded). Looks to me like you are saying you have two votes, so I am just making sure. Doubling down on me for pointing it out because the question doesn't follow the rules you believe have been established while trying to discipline me in the process...not cool.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on February 27, 2019, 06:11:54 pm
I was too agressive, I know: this is how I act when someone scumslips.

Go over everything we know this game:

- One of the PRs is double-voter
- All PRs want to be hidden to protects the cops/other important PRs
- UoS said crumbing roles is bad: I stand by this, do you question it?
- I said "having 2 votes is double the power!" after FoSing.
- shraeye asked what I meant by that.
- I asked him what exactly he wanted.
- He said he was generally confused.
- I explained that I think FoS could be like a second vote.
- You questioned me if I had 2 votes.

You made a very big mistake: by asking if I have 2 votes, you're asking what my PR is: no matter what I answer, you'll gain information (in fact we'll all gain information, which here means scum). I believe we have agreed that outing PRs is bad in this setup, as I stated above. Thus, your question was a way to make me slip something about my role. This only helps scum. Ergo, you are scum.

What do you mean by "doubling down"? I was never on you...and yes, I do believe the rules have been established, no one disagreed with anything UoS posted in that list (IIRC faust only had a problem with the Garak part).

I get to order around my scumreads. Especially when they slip this hard...it's not at all scummy to do so, because "scummy in life" does not exist.

This is super convenient, I had something to ask you:

What do you think about shraeye/UoS/Glooble? Do you think they're towny, scummy or null for their setup talk?

It's buried in one of my many big posts, but still.

Now, how will you respond to agresssiveness? I believe this is your weak spot, if I press it you might slip even more! Please, answer this with everything you have.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on February 27, 2019, 06:58:43 pm
Now, how will you respond to agresssiveness_

MiX, I'm not okay with the way you're treating WCD. Please remember that you've signed the Civility Pledge, saying that you will treat other players in a civil manner. You've admitted that you were excessively aggressive, and yet you seem completely unapologetic about it. You're even continuing to push and criticise her. How about considering a less aggressive approach, and perhaps an apology to WCD?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on February 27, 2019, 07:10:15 pm
Now, how will you respond to agresssiveness_

MiX, I'm not okay with the way you're treating WCD. Please remember that you've signed the Civility Pledge, saying that you will treat other players in a civil manner. You've admitted that you were excessively aggressive, and yet you seem completely unapologetic about it. You're even continuing to push and criticise her. How about considering a less aggressive approach, and perhaps an apology to WCD?

I am a firm believer that I should be aggressive here and that Didds can take it. If I am wrong, I apologize. When I pushed my boundaries with you, the resulting arguments would be NAI. Here I believe they are not.

Sigh...okay, calm down, calm down, you can do this...

@WCD, please explain why you wanted me to answer that question. In as great detail as possible. I'm trying to calm down...I still think that was a scumslip. And I still want an answer...please don't take this personally...
Ah, and also answer the points I made in the other post, of course.

I get to order around my scumreads. Especially when they slip this hard...it's not at all scummy to do so, because "scummy in life" does not exist.

I withdraw this statement, I believe this was over the line.


I hope everyone can see where I'm coming from with this...
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on February 27, 2019, 07:11:15 pm
vote: 2.7 he doesnít feel as genuine as he normally does to me. Hasnít come across as towny and he normally does pretty early.

This is my thought as well as I am rereading

vote: 2.71828.....

Why? I don't think I've seen cases against e and he seems pretty town to me. Also, sheeping a meh, if not bad, vote is just...lazy, as (I think) Didds put it. Scumpoints!

I also have to say that I've been reading the QTs of M121, and I saw this in the mason one...

LaLight: "...By the way MiX when you read this, sorry!"

That is so adorable. FoS: LaLight, because having 2 votes is double the power!

@faust, what makes you think Swan didn't get a scumread from chicken?

This is the post from MiX that shraeye and WCD commented on. TBH, my response to it was also bafflement, because MiX appears to be calling LL "adorable" and then pseudo-voting for him all on one line, which kind of implies that the two events are somehow linked. Then he also implies on the same line that FoS is like doubling his vote (which is in itself a highly questionnable statement because bussing is only interesting if you risk actually contributing to your teammate's lynch).

Anyway, spending more time re-reading the post, I assume the quote at the top is the justification for the FoS-vote, the content in the middle is a completely irrelevant aside on the theme of LL, and then the FoS-vote on LL happens, and then there's another separate point to faust tacked on the end.

tl;dr I found the a structure of the post pretty hard to follow, even though I'm familiar with the FoS acronym.

PPE 1
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: shraeye on February 27, 2019, 07:33:04 pm
It's probably the exact thing I noticed, and it needed to be asked/sorted, because you've either had A) a terrible choice of words, or B) knowledge about LaLights role, or C) are crumbing (who are we to know how closely youve read stuff)
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: shraeye on February 27, 2019, 07:36:48 pm
West coast didn't scumslip, but both her and I just did a double-take because it looked like YOU did to me.  Now I see your explanation and Im pretty sure it was just bad word choice.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: shraeye on February 27, 2019, 07:38:59 pm
Still, if LaLight ever flips as scum double voter, nothing in the world will stop me from immediately voting you.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on February 27, 2019, 09:32:07 pm
I am super-twisted up about this MiX thing. He rubbed me wrong in his initial aggro response and then the non-apology and assumption that I can ďtakeĒ even more aggression feels really disrespectful to me.

For a few minutes, I was just gonna quit the game because seriously, my life has too much of that kind of treatment and I donít need more ďfor funĒ. But space and shraeye seem to think heís out of line, too, so maybe my feelings arenít coming out of nowhere.

So, Iím gonna hang with my guy and my cats and drink a bunch of wine and see what I think about it all in the morning or whenever it is that Iím not feeling so angry and belittled.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on February 27, 2019, 09:39:24 pm
When I saw the 2 votes thing I assumed there was a claim I hadn't seen.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on February 27, 2019, 09:46:56 pm
Everyone, please be cool. A quick re-read of the Civility Pledge (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=7695.0) might be a good move for some folks. We're all here to have fun. Vote count coming soon.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on February 27, 2019, 10:07:15 pm
Vote Count 1.4

Even higher than that, on the upper level of the promenade, Jake and Nog sit dangling their legs over the edge of the walkway, looking out the station window at the wormhole.

"It's been a long time since we've done this, hasn't it?" Jake asks.

"These were simpler times," Nog says. "Watching the freighters. Making fun of ambassadors. Pulling pranks on Odo."

"So hey, what do you know about all this spy stuff?" Jake asks, pulling out a PADD. "My Dad won't tell me anything, but I think it could make for a great article."

"Oh no," Nog says. "I'm not going to be your Starfleet leak source. You could get me into a lot of trouble."

Jake looks dejected, but not surprised.

"C'mon, buddy," Nog says. "Let's go get a Jumja stick, for old time's sake."


faust (2): 2.71828....., UmbrageOfSnow
2.71828..... (3): mcmcsalot, LaLight, Robz888
shraeye (2): raerae, Jimmmmm
Robz888 (1): faust
MiX (1): SpaceAnemone
chickenwarlord (2): ashersky, DatSwan
Jimmmmm (1): Glooble
LaLight (1): WestCoastDidds
Awaclus (1): Uncleeurope
WestCoastDidds (1): MiX
No Lynch (1): chickenwarlord

Not voting (2): Shraeye, Awaclus

With 18 alive, it takes 10 to lynch most players. Day 1 ends at 8 a.m. forum time on Saturday, March 2.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: shraeye on February 27, 2019, 10:28:17 pm
When I saw the 2 votes thing I assumed there was a claim I hadn't seen.
Yeah, that was my immediate assumption; and when I looked for it it wasn't there.  Hence my need for an explanation.  And if WestCoast hadn't popped in with the question "are you double voter?" I sure as heck would have.

I think MiX got super excited about finding somebody doing something anti-town.  But, firstly, it wasn't anti-town to get that clarification from MiX; he brought that upon himself and made it necessary (at least from my perspective).  And secondly, even if you think you caught scum, there have got to be levels to handling it.  MiX brought it to a much too high level; I hope that he can realize this, apologize, and scale it back.

WestCoast, you drink you some good wine (hope it's a savignon blanc from New Zealand).
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on February 28, 2019, 01:10:45 am
WestCoast, you drink you some good wine (hope it's a savignon blanc from New Zealand).

I don't know, a Riesling from Germany (dry, not sweet) is quickly moving up my list of favorite wines after moving here.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on February 28, 2019, 01:20:04 am
That being said, shows of emotion (show not meaning faked, just displayed in thread) mean different things for different people, and can often be town v town situations as both parties 1) have limited information and 2) are fully convinced in their own mind they are absolutely correct.

And then hopefully all that is required is a cool down period, an emphatic look at the other person's point of view, and we develop a read on situation from there.

For me, I think it is relatively likely MiX and WCD are town
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on February 28, 2019, 01:22:04 am
Also,

Vote: DatSwan
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on February 28, 2019, 01:26:46 am
They feel like they have been flying under the radar and I didn't really like their chicken vote
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on February 28, 2019, 01:37:26 am
Commenting on FoS: in my opinion it is silly. I guess it just highlights a scum read that you don't want to vote for....which again, just vote for them. Or not.

I prefer just giving everyone a fair shot. I feel like a Voltaire inspired Way Too Early Reads list is in order, but not before breakfast
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Chickenwarlord on February 28, 2019, 01:43:00 am
When I saw the 2 votes thing I assumed there was a claim I hadn't seen.
Same here. Honestly there were some pretty baffling leaps involved in the entire affair. MiX seems to be trying really hard to stir up something, which definitely feels like a fairly botched town play to try and get some sort of lynch going - but a very poorly thought out and executed one. Not sure if I buy it though.
 
They feel like they have been flying under the radar and I didn't really like their chicken vote
I would definitely like to see more discussion from them considering their rather unceremonious vote drop.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: faust on February 28, 2019, 02:05:43 am
I feel like I wasn't particularly misrepresenting you, unless I misunderstand something. When you made that comment to me, I'd expressed surprise that someone had any read on Ash from two posts, and you suggested that it's possible to read alignment from two posts if it's possible for 200K posts. Then when discussing Chickenwarlord, you equated his two posts to an implied zero posts (because "other people have posted"). What did I miss?
None of the people to vote for Chickenwarlord have expressed any sort of read on him beyond voting. So if they do have a scumread, I want them to clarify, because it doesn't look like it.

FWIW, I think unless there's something with the information content of an undisputable scumslip, then any post can only give partial indication of an alignment, and you need an accumulation of posts before anyone's alignment swings significantly away from the default assumption. (I'm feeling pleased with myself for not saying "prior" after that whole discussion with Haddock in your Radch mafia game).
Yes but as you say post post can give indication. Obviously reads based on more posts will be better most of the time, but well it is D1.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: faust on February 28, 2019, 02:08:40 am
I wanted Dukat dead for strategy reasons. Lynching Dukat means not lynching a useful PR. It also means removing a liability. Of course the UB changes the first part, and makes it so that it largely does not matter whom we lynch from a PR perspective.

Much as I like D1s, I also like utilizing setup info to my advantage, and in an open setup if there is a good plan it outweighs reads for me. Especially in multiball where scum can legitimately scumhunt and thus is even harder to catch.

And that's better (disregarding the UB and PR usefulness) than lynching Dukat the day before LYLO why?
Why disregarding that? That is the major benefit. If we're lynching Eddie, we are not lynching some important role.

Also we don't know when LyLo is exactly because the number of deaths per night fluctuates and we don't know how many scums we have.

Also, are you giving Uncleeurope less towncred for his claim because you suggested it?
No, I think he was genuine in saying that he wanted to claim all along. Not that I am giving towncred for that.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: faust on February 28, 2019, 02:12:30 am
Now, how will you respond to agresssiveness_

MiX, I'm not okay with the way you're treating WCD. Please remember that you've signed the Civility Pledge, saying that you will treat other players in a civil manner. You've admitted that you were excessively aggressive, and yet you seem completely unapologetic about it. You're even continuing to push and criticise her. How about considering a less aggressive approach, and perhaps an apology to WCD?

I am a firm believer that I should be aggressive here and that Didds can take it.
Whether or not someone can "take it" is not a good indicator of proper behaviour. Maybe I think that you can take it if I punch you in the face.

It is also a myth that playing mafia well somehow requires you to be uncivil.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: faust on February 28, 2019, 02:14:08 am
When I saw the 2 votes thing I assumed there was a claim I hadn't seen.
Great, so everyone gets to do "let's claim what roles we do/do not have" game.

Vote: Jimmmmm because there is no reason town should make that post.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: faust on February 28, 2019, 02:18:30 am
Whether or not someone can "take it" is not a good indicator of proper behaviour. Maybe I think that you can take it if I punch you in the face.
Also victim blaming. Suddenly it's not you who is at fault for improper behaviour, but the other person who "couldn't take it".
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on February 28, 2019, 03:57:13 am
Ok that's a lot of responses. Well then. Hopefully there's something useful out of this mess...

Whether or not someone can "take it" is not a good indicator of proper behaviour. Maybe I think that you can take it if I punch you in the face.
Also victim blaming. Suddenly it's not you who is at fault for improper behaviour, but the other person who "couldn't take it".

I did not at all mean this, but it's understandable that you interpret it like that. I meant that, if I was wrong (which I was. And am.), it would be (and it is) my fault. So, I'm sorry Didds. Sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry. Not sure what I can do to make up for it...

So...EVERYONE had problems parsing my post. Well that's a pretty big problem...especially if everyone thinks I would claim this early. Well, don't worry about it, when I claim, I bold it, so mistakes don't happen.

I didn't like Didds' incredibly direct question with no right answer. I think she's much wordier than that and it felt like a trap, uncharacteristic of Didds' play (for me at least). But then this happened:

Still, if LaLight ever flips as scum double voter, nothing in the world will stop me from immediately voting you.

What is this? Why would you say this? Where's the logic behind it? You think I slipped? This is such an awkward post, it makes no sense!


Correct! Thank you for taking your time with that post, it seems to be that you'll have to do that with a lot of my posts, given that this one's not exacty simple.


And I like faust's vote, so shameless sheep:

Vote: Jimmmmm

Also just want to get on this wagon again.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Awaclus on February 28, 2019, 05:34:19 am
I have no idea what's going on. I'll try to catch up today.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: DatSwan on February 28, 2019, 06:00:51 am
So this is all I can find on the "MiX Vs WCD" bit:

1) MiX Quote: "That is so adorable. FoS: LaLight, because having 2 votes is double the powe

2)
That is so adorable. FoS: LaLight, because having 2 votes is double the power!

What did I miss?

What do you mean by this?

Are you the double voter MiX?


3)
Dude, you can take off of the bossy boots right now. You don't get to order me, or anyone else, around. It's scummy AF in the game and in life, and I am not having it.

You said "That is so adorable. FoS: LaLight, because having 2 votes is double the power!"

Sure seems like you are saying you have two votes, I am not the only one confused, and you're FoS is just as good as a vote discussion is nonsensical to me. And no one says anyone has to obey UoS list of rules to be followed about roles, so I'm not sure that you are although you are quoting it here like its part of the setup.

I didn't make a mistake. I read more carefully than you do (see the Space gender discussion that you either didn't read or disregarded). Looks to me like you are saying you have two votes, so I am just making sure. Doubling down on me for pointing it out because the question doesn't follow the rules you believe have been established while trying to discipline me in the process...not cool.


4)
Now, how will you respond to agresssiveness_

MiX, I'm not okay with the way you're treating WCD. Please remember that you've signed the Civility Pledge, saying that you will treat other players in a civil manner. You've admitted that you were excessively aggressive, and yet you seem completely unapologetic about it. You're even continuing to push and criticise her. How about considering a less aggressive approach, and perhaps an apology to WCD?

I am a firm believer that I should be aggressive here and that Didds can take it. If I am wrong, I apologize. When I pushed my boundaries with you, the resulting arguments would be NAI. Here I believe they are not.

Sigh...okay, calm down, calm down, you can do this...

@WCD, please explain why you wanted me to answer that question. In as great detail as possible. I'm trying to calm down...I still think that was a scumslip. And I still want an answer...please don't take this personally...
Ah, and also answer the points I made in the other post, of course.

I get to order around my scumreads. Especially when they slip this hard...it's not at all scummy to do so, because "scummy in life" does not exist.

I withdraw this statement, I believe this was over the line.


I hope everyone can see where I'm coming from with this...


Then a final post from MiX like 10 posts ago going over summarizing and whatever.


All of that is nonsense to me. This fight is about nothing. Semantics and clarifications at best. Both of the players involved have played games before, there is no reason for offense to be taken here. MiX said something, WCD called them on it, MiX responded... and then the rest of it. Both players are operating way outside of the Town Norms I know them as. So my opinion is it is either Town vs Town or a planned interaction.

In this game the odds of a planned interaction are kind of diluted given the possibility of skum teams so I am inclined to believe Town vs Town.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: DatSwan on February 28, 2019, 06:03:53 am
Faust/E - literally no reason for my initial Chicken vote. 18 player game, wanted to see if something could get going. But I like where it lays now.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: DatSwan on February 28, 2019, 06:08:41 am
WCD - do you prefer "she"?

If so I am sorry. We have played a lot of games together and I have just never caught onto that.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on February 28, 2019, 06:23:02 am
Going back to the Ferengi thing; I guess my odd question got us some info after all.  Not very useful, maybe, but something.

MiX vs. WCD felt planned/planted, as posited by DatSwan.  That said, I know neither of them at all (as compared to, say, Jimmmm or faust), so who knows.  Of course, I run on the coarser side of things.

Lots of pages, not a lot of content coming from those pages, otherwise. 

Blatant role speculation incoming...obligatory "could be my own role I'm acting like I don't know" WIFOM statement...

Do we think the Double Voter can vote separately?  Or is one bolded vote counted twice on the vote count?

It's elementary to figure out; just have everyone vote.  The fact that some haven't voted (SA, is your script up and running) feels like an effort to hide the "unhide-able" double vote, which is scummy.  I'm looking at Awaclus, I think, who hasn't voted, and also shraeye, maybe?  Anyone else?

For now, vote: awaclus for not being very Awaclusian and until he votes.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Awaclus on February 28, 2019, 06:23:41 am
Vote: ashersky

Is this better?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on February 28, 2019, 06:25:31 am
Vote: ashersky

Is this better?

Yes!  Thank you.

Also, for someone who's recent post was about being behind and such, that was quite the quick post.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: faust on February 28, 2019, 06:27:27 am
Do we think the Double Voter can vote separately?  Or is one bolded vote counted twice on the vote count?

It's elementary to figure out; just have everyone vote.
It's even more elementary to figure out: Just ask joth.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: faust on February 28, 2019, 06:29:05 am
Also, for someone who's recent post was about being behind and such, that was quite the quick post.
Are we in the territory again of suspecting people of pointlessly lying about IRL stuff? Please let's not go there.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: faust on February 28, 2019, 06:33:45 am
And ash, please respond to this:

Wondering - what do people think their Chickenwarlord votes will achieve?

You voted for Chickenwarlord. Now you are not. How has this helped town?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on February 28, 2019, 06:58:13 am
WCD - do you prefer "she"?

If so I am sorry. We have played a lot of games together and I have just never caught onto that.

Really? Thatís funny, youíve never messed it up! She or they is cool by me. As long as it isnít he, I donít really care.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on February 28, 2019, 07:50:50 am
Thanks for the support, yíall. I appreciate it. It was Survivor and Petite Syrah. Wednesday nights are awesome.

Mix, in regard to your last question....I donít think of set up talk as revealing, really. Especially when the set up is complicated. As a relatively new player, itís generally helpful to me, especially since I was a VT my first few games and didnít know much about how roles worked or interacted. (Proof of this is in the Imperiall Radch game when I literally didnít understand what I did until someone else explained it to me.) I understand why it can be scummy, but itís not to me. I have only been in one game where we caught scum D1, and it was because of the way he was justifying his votes. In the game where I played the best, it was voting patterns that outed scum for me. So, that tends to be where I look most closely.

As to the double voter and my direct question. I was having trouble following you. My thoughts were, is he saying he has two votes? That LL has two votes? That the FoS is a vote (Iíve never seen that terminology before and had to look it up)? So I asked you if you were saying you were a double voter. I wasnít PR hunting, just trying to follow. If it was a breadcrumb, it was like a whole slice and warranted a follow up. The double voter canít be concealed so I wasnít thinking it was super secret info, especially since you seems to be saying you had two votes. If that isnít what you were saying, that seems easy enough for you to answer. Obviously, I wasnít the only one not following you on this.

In the future, if you think Iím scum, please just vote for me. Iím not going to respond to personal attacks, direct orders, or aggression in any way that will help you or anyone else. My weak spot in the game is not how I respond to aggression. My job surrounds me with a whole host of young-adult aggro dudes who think they know more about everything than anyone, so dealing with them is work. I donít choose to do it for fun.

Finally, in response to planned/plant folks....nope. The only thing that took real planning was crafting the response where I checked out for the evening because I was angry and kept resorting to juvenile name-calling and had to revise more than usual to avoid melting anyoneís face. You can count on me not to deliberately try to do anything that helps characterize me as more emotional than I already am.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on February 28, 2019, 08:06:05 am
Also, for someone who's recent post was about being behind and such, that was quite the quick post.
Are we in the territory again of suspecting people of pointlessly lying about IRL stuff? Please let's not go there.

Or we can go there.  How often is there a "if they were scum they'd be posting more" argument made?  "IRL stuff" is just as much the human element of the game as it is being busy or available or online.  I'm not saying Awaclus lied about being busy working or drumming or whatever.  He just said "man I'm behind" and then was responding to the newest post in the game.  It's about the discrepancy between "being behind" and being able to respond quickly to the newest post, which tells me Awaclus had read up to that point already, possibly meaning his previous post was an exaggeration to cover for not posting too much.  Or maybe more time passed than I thought and he caught up, or maybe he reads super fast, I don't know.  But Awaclus could have answered that himself.

And ash, please respond to this:

Wondering - what do people think their Chickenwarlord votes will achieve?

You voted for Chickenwarlord. Now you are not. How has this helped town?

It achieved a small wagon and some discussion on the merits of voting for CW.  CW also came back and posted some.  And it got votes on the record from players that may be useful in the late game when looking at interactions.

At the very worst, it was neutral, and most definitely it was better than at least half of the rest of the "contributions" to the game so far by other players.

How have any of your posts helped town?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Awaclus on February 28, 2019, 08:10:55 am
Also, for someone who's recent post was about being behind and such, that was quite the quick post.
Are we in the territory again of suspecting people of pointlessly lying about IRL stuff? Please let's not go there.

Or we can go there.  How often is there a "if they were scum they'd be posting more" argument made?  "IRL stuff" is just as much the human element of the game as it is being busy or available or online.  I'm not saying Awaclus lied about being busy working or drumming or whatever.  He just said "man I'm behind" and then was responding to the newest post in the game.  It's about the discrepancy between "being behind" and being able to respond quickly to the newest post, which tells me Awaclus had read up to that point already, possibly meaning his previous post was an exaggeration to cover for not posting too much.  Or maybe more time passed than I thought and he caught up, or maybe he reads super fast, I don't know.  But Awaclus could have answered that himself.

And ash, please respond to this:

Wondering - what do people think their Chickenwarlord votes will achieve?

You voted for Chickenwarlord. Now you are not. How has this helped town?

It achieved a small wagon and some discussion on the merits of voting for CW.  CW also came back and posted some.  And it got votes on the record from players that may be useful in the late game when looking at interactions.

At the very worst, it was neutral, and most definitely it was better than at least half of the rest of the "contributions" to the game so far by other players.

How have any of your posts helped town?

I'm reading all the new posts but there's stuff in between that I have only skimmed over.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on February 28, 2019, 08:13:43 am
I'm reading all the new posts but there's stuff in between that I have only skimmed over.

Credible.

Any thoughts on any specific players?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Awaclus on February 28, 2019, 08:29:14 am
I'm reading all the new posts but there's stuff in between that I have only skimmed over.

Credible.

Any thoughts on any specific players?

Vote: e
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on February 28, 2019, 09:25:21 am
I still like my E vote, I would also happily sheep Faustís Jimm vote
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Glooble on February 28, 2019, 09:29:08 am
I still like my E vote, I would also happily sheep Faust’s Jimm vote

Why is it faust's Jimmmmm vote? I've been voting for Jimmmm since page 13.

Can someone on this e wagon please point out where its coming from? And don't use the words "seems" or "feels".
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on February 28, 2019, 09:36:46 am
More for myself than anyone else:

Day 1 ends on Saturday at 8am FT.  So, 46ish hours from now...
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on February 28, 2019, 09:40:03 am
More for myself than anyone else:

Day 1 ends on Saturday at 8am FT.  So, 46ish hours from now...

Oo thatís good to know for me too, Iíll be visiting friends. Guess I need to do some work at lunch time today
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Uncleeurope on February 28, 2019, 09:52:52 am
I still like my E vote, I would also happily sheep Faustís Jimm vote

Why is it faust's Jimmmmm vote? I've been voting for Jimmmm since page 13.

Can someone on this e wagon please point out where its coming from? And don't use the words "seems" or "feels".

I know that Iím not on the wagon (yet) but it seems to me that e feels scummy.

Would you say that you have a case without those words on someone else?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: faust on February 28, 2019, 09:59:05 am
I still like my E vote, I would also happily sheep Faustís Jimm vote

Why is it faust's Jimmmmm vote? I've been voting for Jimmmm since page 13.
I am just much more sheepable.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: faust on February 28, 2019, 10:06:04 am
More for myself than anyone else:

Day 1 ends on Saturday at 8am FT.  So, 46ish hours from now...
I think there is some consolidation necessary beforehand then. I'm not sure we can rely on a burst of activity on a Saturday morning. Currently the following players have more than 1 vote on them:

e, shraeye, Awaclus, Jimmmmm
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on February 28, 2019, 10:08:15 am
I can see the reasoning behind Jimmmmm votes but I think e's lynch is much more informative and probable to be scum lynch.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on February 28, 2019, 10:09:44 am
Iím willing to move to e or Jimmmmm. Iím interested in hearing the answers to Gloobleís question.
But in the meantime, all feels and seems...vote: e
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: faust on February 28, 2019, 10:12:25 am
I can see the reasoning behind Jimmmmm votes but I think e's lynch is much more informative and probable to be scum lynch.
Why?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on February 28, 2019, 10:13:27 am

I am just much more sheepable.

Without being at all sheepish. Or sheep-like.

Baaaad, I know.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: faust on February 28, 2019, 10:15:28 am
I can see the reasoning behind Jimmmmm votes but I think e's lynch is much more informative and probable to be scum lynch.
Why?
Also why do you frame this a e vs Jimmmmm?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on February 28, 2019, 10:28:03 am
Vote Count 1.5

Vedek Bariel walks into Garak's shop, because I'm running out of characters I haven't used in the flavor yet and the ones I have left don't really fit together in a logical way. Also, Bariel shouldn't even be in this game because technically he's dead at this point in the timeline. But I digress.

"This is a tailor shop, right?" the Vedek asks.

"Of course!" the Cardassian replies. "And I, as anyone will tell you, am a plain, simple tailor. Elim Garak, at your service."

"Of course I've heard of you Mr. Garak. And I have to say, I admire you for sticking around on the station. My people need to heal, and having a Cardassian working among them is an important part of that healing."

"Good of you to say, but I'm afraid the only healing I can help you with is sewing up a tear in your garments."

"Well that's exactly what I'm here about. I was leading services at the temple and somehow the mob got very riled up. I had to break up a fight and my best vestments got torn." He gestures to a small rip in his sleeve.

"This should be no problem," Garak says. "I can have it stitched up by tomorrow. But the high tensions among your flock, that's your problem to solve."

"I'm afraid until we catch whatever spies might be lurking around, I'll need to be a little more careful with all my garments," Bariel replies.


faust (1): UmbrageOfSnow
2.71828..... (5): mcmcsalot, LaLight, Robz888, Awaclus, WestCoastDidds
shraeye (2): raerae, Jimmmmm
MiX (1): SpaceAnemone
chickenwarlord (1): DatSwan
Jimmmmm (3): Glooble, MiX, faust
Awaclus (2): Uncleeurope, ashersky
DatSwan (1): 2.71828.....

No Lynch (1): chickenwarlord

Not voting (1): Shraeye

With 18 alive, it takes 10 to lynch most players. Day 1 ends at 8 a.m. forum time on Saturday, March 2.

Also, the question wasn't bolded, but open setup is open so here's some information about Kai Winn's double vote. She can use it one day per game and must use it publicly by typing "doublevote: Name". Once she does, she can use the commands "undoublevote" and "doublevote: different name" to move it around. It persists for the rest of the game day, but expires after that, whether or not she ended the day with it on a player.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: faust on February 28, 2019, 10:31:08 am
faust (2): UmbrageOfSnow
2.71828..... (5): mcmcsalot, LaLight, Robz888, Awaclus, WestCoastDidds
shraeye (2): raerae, Jimmmmm
MiX (1): SpaceAnemone
chickenwarlord (2): ashersky, DatSwan
Jimmmmm (2): Glooble, MiX
Awaclus (1): Uncleeurope, faust
DatSwan (1): 2.71828.....
ashersky (1): Awaclus

No Lynch (1): chickenwarlord

Not voting (1): Shraeye
There seem to be some issues with this. I should be voting for Jimmmmm. ahsersky is voting for Awaclus.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: faust on February 28, 2019, 10:32:18 am
Also Awaclus is somehow voting for both e and ashersky.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on February 28, 2019, 10:36:43 am
Oops. I mixed up the little green stars and read two of ashersky's posts as faust's. Should be correct now.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Glooble on February 28, 2019, 10:52:38 am
I still like my E vote, I would also happily sheep Faustís Jimm vote

Why is it faust's Jimmmmm vote? I've been voting for Jimmmm since page 13.

Can someone on this e wagon please point out where its coming from? And don't use the words "seems" or "feels".

 I know that Iím not on the wagon (yet) but it seems to me that e feels scummy.

Would you say that you have a case without those words on someone else?

I would articulate my case on Jimmmm, at the time that I voted for him, as being because he was mostly lurking, then popped up to state some townreads (genuinely not that helpful in such a big game, especially as they were on players who weren't under much threat) and say shraeye felt scummy, which just seemed like a low-effort post in order to not be the lurker lynch and maybe to nudge town slightly towards the shraeye lynch, but not in a way that tied Jimmmm to anything if shraeye was lynched and came up down. It was a hedgy post and I thought it was low-key scummy.


Since then he's done nothing to dissuade me from that belief, and no one else has done anything particularly scummy as far as I've noticed. MiX vs. shraeye seems much more like town v town to me than a scumslip for either of them. The post Jimmmm made that faust found scummy didn't seem particularly scummy to me, but I can see how it might seem scummy to someone who knows Jimmmm's meta better than I do.


So I guess my question is for faust: do you feel that you know Jimmm's meta particularly well and that town!Jimmm specifically would not have made this post:

When I saw the 2 votes thing I assumed there was a claim I hadn't seen.

And I guess along those sems lines my question for e voters is what is it about e's play in this game that doesn't feel like the town!e you've played with before? It would be helpful if you could give a specific example.

I'm not opposed to an e lynch today. I'd like to see a real case though.

I do not support a shraeye lynch today.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Glooble on February 28, 2019, 10:53:28 am
Sorry I meant to say "MiX vs. WCD", not MiX vs. Shraeye.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on February 28, 2019, 10:58:11 am
I didnít find Jimmmmís post scummy because it felt like he was just chiming in on the confusion about MiXís post in the midst of our dust up about it.

But I donít know Jimmmmm at all, not even sure how many Mmmmms there should be, so that was just my sense at the time. (Feels, seems, etc)
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: raerae on February 28, 2019, 11:12:21 am
Can somebody help me understand the "not shraeye" movement? I don't know that he's done anything tremendously townie so it seems like a weird line to draw in the sand.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Glooble on February 28, 2019, 11:28:11 am
Can somebody help me understand the "not shraeye" movement? I don't know that he's done anything tremendously townie so it seems like a weird line to draw in the sand.

I can only speak for myself- I don't know anything about a movement. Shraeye's explanation of his position re: no lynching, while I still disagree with it, felt very towny to me. There are lots of people in this game I have null reads on, so I don't want to lynch one of my few townreads.

Of the people with more than one vote on them, my lynch order would be:

Jimmmmm
e/ Awaclus
shraeye

Awaclus and e are both pretty null to me, and there's pros and cons to each. We get much more useful info from an e lynch, since e has been more active today. But town!e is more useful later in the game. Though I've never played a game with town!Awaclus so maybe there is some merit to his attack-dog style that I'm just not aware of.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: faust on February 28, 2019, 11:38:22 am
So I guess my question is for faust: do you feel that you know Jimmm's meta particularly well and that town!Jimmm specifically would not have made this post:

When I saw the 2 votes thing I assumed there was a claim I hadn't seen.

I don't think I know Jimmmmm's meta very well. I think that post helps keep alive a discussion that benefits scum. I think town!Jimmmmm is a competent enough player to realize that. I think scum is less worried about softclaiming PR stuff because it doesn't really hurt their faction. Most of this read has nothing to do with Jimmmmm's meta in particular, other than he is an experienced player.

Also he's a lurker. I much prefer to lynch lurkers early on, particularly in a big game like this.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: faust on February 28, 2019, 11:40:11 am
I can only speak for myself- I don't know anything about a movement. Shraeye's explanation of his position re: no lynching, while I still disagree with it, felt very towny to me.
I am very sure that shraeye holds the belief that town should be more open to no lynching independent of the game and his alignment. I don't understand how you could think this says anything about his alignment.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Glooble on February 28, 2019, 11:51:06 am
I can only speak for myself- I don't know anything about a movement. Shraeye's explanation of his position re: no lynching, while I still disagree with it, felt very towny to me.
I am very sure that shraeye holds the belief that town should be more open to no lynching independent of the game and his alignment. I don't understand how you could think this says anything about his alignment.

I'll be clearer.

The only thing scummy I saw about shraeye was his pro-no lynch position. Having not played with shraeye before, I didn't know that was just a thing for him. Once he made his case, the position no longer seemed scummy to me. It still seemed wrong, but it took away the scummiest part of shraeye for me and I was left with a townread.

Is this townread reliable? Certainly not. It's as flimsy as any day one read. But its enough to make me not want to lynch him.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Glooble on February 28, 2019, 11:55:23 am
I guess I should reread shraeye and figure out where this townread is coming from, since I admit its kind of a gut thing at this point.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on February 28, 2019, 11:56:07 am
I would be very open to lynching Glooble based of the recent interactions. Seems a bit like scum trying to put more emphasis than there really is on things (the shraeye read)
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
Post by: Glooble on February 28, 2019, 11:59:59 am
I do like Dukat claiming, now I don't have to argue about it though.

Also we obviously can't control when people claim, but faust, shraeye and others (and Joth in the Ancillary game) are really pushing this thing where it's all up to the town. Obvious it is up to the individual players but it is very much worth discussing. I was serious when I said I thought it had hurt town in Ancillary Mafia, the only thing I was lying about there was being upset about it.

This game is open so for the new players, scum have no value in fake claiming here, since every single one of us has a unique name from a known list. Towns lately seem to love randomly claiming their roles at L-4 or whatever and it's hugely anti-town. Even if your role is not a likely NK target, you narrow the pool of targets for the roles scum are looking for and it hurts everyone else.

Mafia is a team game, and decisions each player makes effect their whole team.

I don't know where this argument is coming from, but multiple players across multiple games are saying things with similar language so it's getting to be kind of a meme and I really think it's bad play that we should clamp down on.

In RMM51, it definitely helped scum a ton that a lot of information was available and that a lot of it was true. We were able to make very informed decisions most nights.


This quote actually makes me not want to lynch Awaclus today. What he says here is undoubtably true, and I think if he'd rolled scum again its more likely he would have tried to get town to make the same mistakes than point those mistakes out of towncred. But WiFoM as awlays.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Uncleeurope on February 28, 2019, 12:00:39 pm
I would be very open to lynching Glooble based of the recent interactions. Seems a bit like scum trying to put more emphasis than there really is on things (the shraeye read)

I keep thinking that as well.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Glooble on February 28, 2019, 12:05:38 pm
I would be very open to lynching Glooble based of the recent interactions. Seems a bit like scum trying to put more emphasis than there really is on things (the shraeye read)

I don't understand what you're saying here.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: shraeye on February 28, 2019, 12:14:14 pm
More for myself than anyone else:

Day 1 ends on Saturday at 8am FT.  So, 46ish hours from now...

Holy smokes!
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: shraeye on February 28, 2019, 12:15:04 pm
Can somebody help me understand the "not shraeye" movement? I don't know that he's done anything tremendously townie so it seems like a weird line to draw in the sand.
Don't hate me because I'm beautiful.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: shraeye on February 28, 2019, 12:17:04 pm
I still like my E vote, I would also happily sheep Faustís Jimm vote

Why is it faust's Jimmmmm vote? I've been voting for Jimmmm since page 13.

Can someone on this e wagon please point out where its coming from? And don't use the words "seems" or "feels".

I think as Uncle's explanation makes clear, it's not possible.

I know that Iím not on the wagon (yet) but it seems to me that e feels scummy.


e is a sheepy sheepy wagon; vote analysis will NOT be useful if he is our lynch.  For people who are against my brilliant no-lynch-is-always-an-option movement, you all seem very excited to create a SUUUUPER uninformative lynch.  Shame shame shame.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: shraeye on February 28, 2019, 12:23:31 pm
I would be very open to lynching Glooble based of the recent interactions. Seems a bit like scum trying to put more emphasis than there really is on things (the shraeye read)

I keep thinking that as well.

vote: Glooble
I'm also down with that; for somebody who is against the e lynch because it's all based on "seems" and "feels", why is he giving me towncred based on how he feels??
He's got a healthy set of interactions, making it an actually informative lynch. 
His analysis of the ash Ferengi misunderstanding still doesn't sit well with me.
And he's up there on my list of saying many things, but not really pushing many things.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: raerae on February 28, 2019, 12:24:07 pm
Can somebody help me understand the "not shraeye" movement? I don't know that he's done anything tremendously townie so it seems like a weird line to draw in the sand.
Don't hate me because I'm beautiful.

Honey, I hate you for so many other reasons.  (Ex. Where is my spare key?!)
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on February 28, 2019, 12:32:41 pm
So, kind of at the point where there is actually a non-zero chance that I get lynched today.

Is there any other case except "he feels off"?

And for those people with the feels, is there anything specific that I can comment on?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: shraeye on February 28, 2019, 12:34:01 pm
All of that is nonsense to me. This fight is about nothing. Semantics and clarifications at best. Both of the players involved have played games before, there is no reason for offense to be taken here. MiX said something, WCD called them on it, MiX responded... and then the rest of it. Both players are operating way outside of the Town Norms I know them as. So my opinion is it is either Town vs Town or a planned interaction.

In this game the odds of a planned interaction are kind of diluted given the possibility of skum teams so I am inclined to believe Town vs Town.
A) third parties don't get to decide when offense is allowed/is not allowed to be taken
B) it does not feel planned.  That is a terrible conclusion

MiX vs. WCD felt planned/planted, as posited by DatSwan. 
Absolutely not.  This idea needs to be buried immediately.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Glooble on February 28, 2019, 12:36:28 pm
I would be very open to lynching Glooble based of the recent interactions. Seems a bit like scum trying to put more emphasis than there really is on things (the shraeye read)

I keep thinking that as well.

vote: Glooble
I'm also down with that; for somebody who is against the e lynch because it's all based on "seems" and "feels", why is he giving me towncred based on how he feels??
He's got a healthy set of interactions, making it an actually informative lynch. 
His analysis of the ash Ferengi misunderstanding still doesn't sit well with me.
And he's up there on my list of saying many things, but not really pushing many things.

Pushing things on day one is scummy though. Because there's so little to go on. Eventually we do have to reach a consensus, which is why I was looking at the wagons we already have people on and trying to see what the least bad option was. I settled on Jimmm, I laid out my reasoning. I realized the hypocrisy of my reasoning re: e and shraeye, so I decided to reread shraeye. Didn't find much that screamed town- didn't find anything that screamed scum either. I did stumble on that Awaclus post while I was doing the reread because we have two people voting for Awaclus right now and I wanted to point that out in case it changed their minds.

I agree with you my lynch would be somewhat informative, because I've been contributing. But that also makes me more valuable to have around on later days. In other ways my lynch wouldn't be very informative because while I've been making a lot of posts, there haven't been a lot of votes on me, or even a huge amount of interaction with my posts- in fact I've felt pretty invisible until just now, despite my attempts to contribute.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on February 28, 2019, 12:38:22 pm
I would be very open to lynching Glooble based of the recent interactions. Seems a bit like scum trying to put more emphasis than there really is on things (the shraeye read)

I keep thinking that as well.

vote: Glooble
I'm also down with that; for somebody who is against the e lynch because it's all based on "seems" and "feels", why is he giving me towncred based on how he feels??
He's got a healthy set of interactions, making it an actually informative lynch. 
His analysis of the ash Ferengi misunderstanding still doesn't sit well with me.
And he's up there on my list of saying many things, but not really pushing many things.

Pushing things on day one is scummy though. Because there's so little to go on. Eventually we do have to reach a consensus, which is why I was looking at the wagons we already have people on and trying to see what the least bad option was. I settled on Jimmm, I laid out my reasoning. I realized the hypocrisy of my reasoning re: e and shraeye, so I decided to reread shraeye. Didn't find much that screamed town- didn't find anything that screamed scum either. I did stumble on that Awaclus post while I was doing the reread because we have two people voting for Awaclus right now and I wanted to point that out in case it changed their minds.

I agree with you my lynch would be somewhat informative, because I've been contributing. But that also makes me more valuable to have around on later days. In other ways my lynch wouldn't be very informative because while I've been making a lot of posts, there haven't been a lot of votes on me, or even a huge amount of interaction with my posts- in fact I've felt pretty invisible until just now, despite my attempts to contribute.


I absolutely and totally disagree with the bolded/underlined portion of this quote.

Scum does not want to push things because they don't want to commit to anything.  Town should never be afraid to be bold about their reads and push them.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Glooble on February 28, 2019, 12:41:59 pm
I would be very open to lynching Glooble based of the recent interactions. Seems a bit like scum trying to put more emphasis than there really is on things (the shraeye read)

I keep thinking that as well.

vote: Glooble
I'm also down with that; for somebody who is against the e lynch because it's all based on "seems" and "feels", why is he giving me towncred based on how he feels??
He's got a healthy set of interactions, making it an actually informative lynch. 
His analysis of the ash Ferengi misunderstanding still doesn't sit well with me.
And he's up there on my list of saying many things, but not really pushing many things.

Pushing things on day one is scummy though. Because there's so little to go on. Eventually we do have to reach a consensus, which is why I was looking at the wagons we already have people on and trying to see what the least bad option was. I settled on Jimmm, I laid out my reasoning. I realized the hypocrisy of my reasoning re: e and shraeye, so I decided to reread shraeye. Didn't find much that screamed town- didn't find anything that screamed scum either. I did stumble on that Awaclus post while I was doing the reread because we have two people voting for Awaclus right now and I wanted to point that out in case it changed their minds.

I agree with you my lynch would be somewhat informative, because I've been contributing. But that also makes me more valuable to have around on later days. In other ways my lynch wouldn't be very informative because while I've been making a lot of posts, there haven't been a lot of votes on me, or even a huge amount of interaction with my posts- in fact I've felt pretty invisible until just now, despite my attempts to contribute.


I absolutely and totally disagree with the bolded/underlined portion of this quote.

Scum does not want to push things because they don't want to commit to anything.  Town should never be afraid to be bold about their reads and push them.

And I absolutely disagree with you. Town shouldn't be afraid to push a lynch that they have some evidence for. "He's just rubbing me the wrong way, let's lynch him" is not towny behavior.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Glooble on February 28, 2019, 12:47:05 pm
Reads are extremely subjective, especially on day one. There's value in sharing them, but pushing them seems like a recipe for mislynch. But I guess you've played a lot more than I have.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on February 28, 2019, 12:50:22 pm
Reads are extremely subjective, especially on day one. There's value in sharing them, but pushing them seems like a recipe for mislynch. But I guess you've played a lot more than I have.

What do you suggest town does near the end of D1 then? Keep interacting? How would we (attempt to, shraeye) lynch anyone if we don't trust our reads? No: we need to push our gut, ultimately it's what mafia's all about.

@Glooble, I have a feeling I asked this already, but how would you describe your meta?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Uncleeurope on February 28, 2019, 01:04:09 pm
So, kind of at the point where there is actually a non-zero chance that I get lynched today.

Is there any other case except "he feels off"?

And for those people with the feels, is there anything specific that I can comment on?

As near as I can tell my wariness spawns from you having some assertions early on regarding certain players that seemed to be strong despite weird evidence. Weird. Scummy, even, but not enough for me to have a whole lot of confidence yet in a vote.

That being said, Gloobie interests me, and Robz as well.

I also think this weird dance going on between gloobie, Shraeye, e, MiX and Faust is weird. Lots of people getting the ďyeah, they are townĒ or whatever. Donít have strong opinions there one way or the other, just seems a bit faster for some of those claims than I would have done.

Also, Unvote, so people stop considering Awaclus because he has multiple votes.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Glooble on February 28, 2019, 01:05:33 pm
Reads are extremely subjective, especially on day one. There's value in sharing them, but pushing them seems like a recipe for mislynch. But I guess you've played a lot more than I have.

What do you suggest town does near the end of D1 then? Keep interacting? How would we (attempt to, shraeye) lynch anyone if we don't trust our reads? No: we need to push our gut, ultimately it's what mafia's all about.


If five people independently find e scummy, there's probably something to that. Some specific thing he has said that one of those people can point to to try and convince the rest of us. I haven't seen anyone offer such a thing. I on the other hand, have provided a specific Jimmmm post that seems scummy to me and why it seems scummy to me. If everyone does that, if everyone justifies their votes better than with a "gut feeling", and then everyone else can look at that justification and decide if they agree with it, that's how we advance on day one.


@Glooble, I have a feeling I asked this already, but how would you describe your meta?

I would describe my meta as "evolving". It changes from game to game as I learn new things. I try very hard not to react emotionally or take votes as attacks, but I'm an emotional person so sometimes I do. I'm anxious. I freak out when there's a wagon on me, regardless of alignment.

This game- what you see is what you get. I ask questions. I clarify when I don't understand something. I point out when a post feels towny or scummy to me. But I point out the specific post and why. I discuss the setup if there is something that I think will be helpful for town to know, won't be harmful for scum to know, and doesn't feel obvious to me. I'm always up for strategizing. Mostly I just want people to talk because at the end of the day one of us is probably going to get lynched, and I'd like to get something out of that lynch.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Uncleeurope on February 28, 2019, 01:08:38 pm
Your meta is evolving and this game what we see is what we get, eh?

Vote: Gloobie
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: faust on February 28, 2019, 01:15:21 pm
He's got a healthy set of interactions, making it an actually informative lynch. 
Boo.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: shraeye on February 28, 2019, 01:20:49 pm
He's got a healthy set of interactions, making it an actually informative lynch. 
Boo.
Yeah, I feel you, but it does increase utility of his lynch over e's.

Seriously, cross-reference the list of people who said I was crazy for advocating no-lynch because of all the information I'd be giving up against the list of people who are currently advocating lynch of 2.71, or are voting for chickenwarlord because of inactivity. 

That group of people is either scummy, or seriously not thinking through their no-lynch position.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Uncleeurope on February 28, 2019, 01:24:01 pm
He's got a healthy set of interactions, making it an actually informative lynch. 
Boo.
Yeah, I feel you, but it does increase utility of his lynch over e's.

Seriously, cross-reference the list of people who said I was crazy for advocating no-lynch because of all the information I'd be giving up against the list of people who are currently advocating lynch of 2.71, or are voting for chickenwarlord because of inactivity. 

That group of people is either scummy, or seriously not thinking through their no-lynch position.

I would lynch an inactive person over nobody 80% of the time. That being said, the inactive player is Robz over CWL, IMO.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Uncleeurope on February 28, 2019, 01:24:55 pm
(That being said I would lynch nobody over a town read 95% of the time)

Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on February 28, 2019, 01:39:10 pm
Chicken, my boy! How much have you read past games? Did you do that at all? Do you know anyone's meta? Maybe at least Gloobles? Also, how active have you been these past days? Will you be here at deadline?

Both players are operating way outside of the Town Norms I know them as.

So you also think Didds isn't playing as usual? Have you played with her? How would you best describe her town meta? I think I have a good feel but I want to hear from someone else.


Thank you for your answer. Doesn't change much, but I am forced to accept that town in general had the same thoughts as you, which means I can't scumread you for it. The question, however...well. Anyway, thx.

Also people are saying MiX vs Didds is town vs town and, well, if with less information than me people say that, maybe I'm just tunnelling......

I would be very open to lynching Glooble based of the recent interactions. Seems a bit like scum trying to put more emphasis than there really is on things (the shraeye read)

This has been your first post that I truly agree with. Which reminds me, you're been heavily lurking, your biggest impact has been this, the setup talk at the start and saying "I would lynch Glooble". Can you give a reason for your vote on E? I believe yours is the most important one of them all.

Who'll be here at deadline? I know I will.


Okay, big(?) post done! Time for good old fashioned read lists!
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on February 28, 2019, 02:00:28 pm
I should be on at deadline as well
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Glooble on February 28, 2019, 02:01:26 pm
I can get up early to be here at deadline I guess.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: faust on February 28, 2019, 02:01:32 pm
He's got a healthy set of interactions, making it an actually informative lynch. 
Boo.
Yeah, I feel you, but it does increase utility of his lynch over e's.

Seriously, cross-reference the list of people who said I was crazy for advocating no-lynch because of all the information I'd be giving up against the list of people who are currently advocating lynch of 2.71, or are voting for chickenwarlord because of inactivity. 

That group of people is either scummy, or seriously not thinking through their no-lynch position.
Anz lynch we make will be informative because there will be 10 people who voted for that person. That's plenty of interaction. It is however completely backwards to want to lynch active players. Active players have interacted with lots of people, and this makes them easier to read once some of those people have flipped. On lurkers we won't have any more info D3 than we do now.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: faust on February 28, 2019, 02:02:50 pm
I think I can make the deadline. No promises though.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Glooble on February 28, 2019, 02:06:28 pm
He's got a healthy set of interactions, making it an actually informative lynch. 
Boo.
Yeah, I feel you, but it does increase utility of his lynch over e's.

Seriously, cross-reference the list of people who said I was crazy for advocating no-lynch because of all the information I'd be giving up against the list of people who are currently advocating lynch of 2.71, or are voting for chickenwarlord because of inactivity. 

That group of people is either scummy, or seriously not thinking through their no-lynch position.
Anz lynch we make will be informative because there will be 10 people who voted for that person. That's plenty of interaction. It is however completely backwards to want to lynch active players. Active players have interacted with lots of people, and this makes them easier to read once some of those people have flipped. On lurkers we won't have any more info D3 than we do now.

Lynching active players also incentivizes lurking.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on February 28, 2019, 02:07:28 pm
Same

Iíll be around some tomorrow, too
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: shraeye on February 28, 2019, 02:54:07 pm
I don't see what I'm saying as promoting "lynch active players."  It's frustrating to see that this is the message people are taking away.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: shraeye on February 28, 2019, 03:09:52 pm
Imagine that 10 people right now say

"vote: e
dunno, just feels off"

So e is lynched.  If e turns up town, how do we differentiate from people expression honest but lame reads, and people who used lame reads as cover?  Order on the wagon?? That introduces a ton of assumptions with little to no reasons why they might be true. ("well if I were scum, I'd vote early"  "but *I* would want to be late on the wagon as scum")

What if e turns up scum?  Well great scum doesn't want to lynch partners, so the wagon is towny! But if your partner were slowly becoming a lynch prospect, wouldn't you get on the wagon?  Well, AAA would and BBB wouldn't; CCC would defend their partner and DDD never would.  All we have is WIFOM, and any serious attempt at vote-count analysis is just disguised guesswork.

>>>

Y'all can't tell me how informative and important a lynch is, and at the same time let so many people explain their vote with "I just have a feeling".
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on February 28, 2019, 03:20:17 pm
Imagine that 10 people right now say

"vote: e
dunno, just feels off"

So e is lynched.  If e turns up town, how do we differentiate from people expression honest but lame reads, and people who used lame reads as cover?  Order on the wagon?? That introduces a ton of assumptions with little to no reasons why they might be true. ("well if I were scum, I'd vote early"  "but *I* would want to be late on the wagon as scum")

What if e turns up scum?  Well great scum doesn't want to lynch partners, so the wagon is towny! But if your partner were slowly becoming a lynch prospect, wouldn't you get on the wagon?  Well, AAA would and BBB wouldn't; CCC would defend their partner and DDD never would.  All we have is WIFOM, and any serious attempt at vote-count analysis is just disguised guesswork.

>>>

Y'all can't tell me how informative and important a lynch is, and at the same time let so many people explain their vote with "I just have a feeling".

If that indeed happened I would scumread the last 3 votes to hell and back, because hammering someone for "feeling off" is incredibly scummy. Especially if he flipped scum. Really, you're completely underestimating town AND scum with that post, just because some people have done that doesn't mean they'll continue it when the wagon's much bigger...

I've also realized that faust moved from Robz to Jimmmmmmm and then said this:

I think there is some consolidation necessary beforehand then. I'm not sure we can rely on a burst of activity on a Saturday morning. Currently the following players have more than 1 vote on them:

e, shraeye, Awaclus, Jimmmmm

@everyone, do you think this could possibly be partner interaction? Because I think this post by faust could essencially say "let's only lynch these 4 people", which is pretty scummy if none of them are (his) scum team. Luckily there could still be scum there, but still...

Yes, yes, the read list is coming, but I think it's only useful to consider people that I think will actually get lynched...in fact I'll state those now: Jimmmmm, e, Didds, Space, LL, shraeye, Glooble, mcmc; in no particular order.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on February 28, 2019, 03:31:42 pm
I think there is some consolidation necessary beforehand then. I'm not sure we can rely on a burst of activity on a Saturday morning. Currently the following players have more than 1 vote on them:

e, shraeye, Awaclus, Jimmmmm

@everyone, do you think this could possibly be partner interaction? Because I think this post by faust could essencially say "let's only lynch these 4 people", which is pretty scummy if none of them are (his) scum team. Luckily there could still be scum there, but still...

I don't think it is scummy, faust beat me to it posting that.

We definitely need to narrow our focus in. We need to get 10 people to vote on a lynch. That is hard. But we need to do it.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: faust on February 28, 2019, 03:32:21 pm
Imagine that 10 people right now say

"vote: e
dunno, just feels off"

So e is lynched.  If e turns up town, how do we differentiate from people expression honest but lame reads, and people who used lame reads as cover?  Order on the wagon?? That introduces a ton of assumptions with little to no reasons why they might be true. ("well if I were scum, I'd vote early"  "but *I* would want to be late on the wagon as scum")

What if e turns up scum?  Well great scum doesn't want to lynch partners, so the wagon is towny! But if your partner were slowly becoming a lynch prospect, wouldn't you get on the wagon?  Well, AAA would and BBB wouldn't; CCC would defend their partner and DDD never would.  All we have is WIFOM, and any serious attempt at vote-count analysis is just disguised guesswork.

>>>

Y'all can't tell me how informative and important a lynch is, and at the same time let so many people explain their vote with "I just have a feeling".
Not sure what you think changes if there are elaborate cases attached to the votes. The assumptions that you so fear go into any kind of wagon analysis.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on February 28, 2019, 03:32:49 pm
Your list of 8 people who could get lynched is interesting to me
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on February 28, 2019, 03:33:52 pm
And we can only do wagon analysis with an actual flip. Hence why lynching someone D1 is important
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on February 28, 2019, 03:36:54 pm
I think there is some consolidation necessary beforehand then. I'm not sure we can rely on a burst of activity on a Saturday morning. Currently the following players have more than 1 vote on them:

e, shraeye, Awaclus, Jimmmmm

@everyone, do you think this could possibly be partner interaction? Because I think this post by faust could essencially say "let's only lynch these 4 people", which is pretty scummy if none of them are (his) scum team. Luckily there could still be scum there, but still...

I don't think it is scummy, faust beat me to it posting that.

We definitely need to narrow our focus in. We need to get 10 people to vote on a lynch. That is hard. But we need to do it.

Another point, I find that scum will usually include a teammate on a "people to lynch" post, then just not really go after that person
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on February 28, 2019, 03:41:08 pm
And actually, speaking of moving off Robz,

Vote: Robz

1) posting about his meta off not being useful D1 and
2) his lazy vote on me that solidified my wagon as an actually viable lynch

Both things I can see scum!Robz doing. I know I said Robz was town for point 1 earlier, but I changed my mind
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on February 28, 2019, 03:44:20 pm
And actually, speaking of moving off Robz,

Vote: Robz

1) posting about his meta off not being useful D1 and
2) his lazy vote on me that solidified my wagon as an actually viable lynch

Both things I can see scum!Robz doing. I know I said Robz was town for point 1 earlier, but I changed my mind

I don't know, I think he's just null...this just feels like OMGUS without saying it.

Probably a better lynch than mcmc, however. I'll add him to my list.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on February 28, 2019, 03:46:09 pm
And actually, speaking of moving off Robz,

Vote: Robz

1) posting about his meta off not being useful D1 and
2) his lazy vote on me that solidified my wagon as an actually viable lynch

Both things I can see scum!Robz doing. I know I said Robz was town for point 1 earlier, but I changed my mind

I don't know, I think he's just null...this just feels like OMGUS without saying it.

Probably a better lynch than mcmc, however. I'll add him to my list.

Actually, I was thinking through who wasn't on your list and could be lynched and then thought how cool it would be to lynch them
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Uncleeurope on February 28, 2019, 03:50:07 pm
I am getting a weird feeling that Robz and MiX are partners.

His post regarding Faustís vote bucket he read (to me) as if he was saying Robz was a buddy with Faust or something, then didnít put him on his vote list, which is weird...

PPE: And now he just said he is reading Robz as null when he previously was  scumreading mcmc for pretty much the same crime?

I dunno, just a thought that is making my head itch.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on February 28, 2019, 03:51:13 pm
I am getting a weird feeling that Robz and MiX are partners.

Way too early to call partners in my opinion. But you can totally test your theory and vote Robz
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: faust on February 28, 2019, 03:54:40 pm
I would rather lynch Jimmmm or LaLight than Robz.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Uncleeurope on February 28, 2019, 03:56:19 pm
I am getting a weird feeling that Robz and MiX are partners.

Way too early to call partners in my opinion. But you can totally test your theory and vote Robz

Oh, I know itís too early, certainly, I just enjoy throwing my thoughts at people. If itís gpong through my head it may as well be running through yours.

Vote: Robz

PPE

Ooh, interested in knowing why?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Uncleeurope on February 28, 2019, 03:56:54 pm
I am interested*
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on February 28, 2019, 03:57:21 pm
I am getting a weird feeling that Robz and MiX are partners.

Way too early to call partners in my opinion. But you can totally test your theory and vote Robz

Oh, I know itís too early, certainly, I just enjoy throwing my thoughts at people. If itís gpong through my head it may as well be running through yours.

I think this is extremely townie
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on February 28, 2019, 03:57:46 pm
Your list of 8 people who could get lynched is interesting to me

Right?

There seem to be significant oversights.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on February 28, 2019, 04:00:03 pm
I would rather lynch Jimmmm or LaLight than Robz.

Whyís that?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on February 28, 2019, 04:07:52 pm
I would rather lynch Jimmmm or LaLight than Robz.

Whyís that?

I just reread LL and would move back to him, but Iím not sure there are 8 others who would. He has contributed WAY less than normal. 

I often find myself thinking that lynching Robz wonít make much difference if heís not showing up. Itís not like weíll miss him. And it seems Jimmm is in that boat as well.  So, is there where one folks can/will coalesce around?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on February 28, 2019, 05:14:00 pm
That is so adorable. FoS: LaLight, because having 2 votes is double the power!
What did I miss?

Are you the double voter MiX?

When I saw the 2 votes thing I assumed there was a claim I hadn't seen.
Yeah, that was my immediate assumption; and when I looked for it it wasn't there.  Hence my need for an explanation.  And if WestCoast hadn't popped in with the question "are you double voter?" I sure as heck would have.

When I saw the 2 votes thing I assumed there was a claim I hadn't seen.
Same here.

faust: Given all of the above, why did you (cherry?) pick my post? Could you not make the exact same argument of shraeye, WCD and Chicken?

The intent of my post was to support WCD in a situation that seemed a little sour. I agreed with her reaction to MiX and I disagreed with his reaction to her. I also agree that they seem likely to be both Town.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on February 28, 2019, 06:18:21 pm
Reads list!

Jimmmmmmmmmm's somewhat scummy. just because all he did this game was vote shraeye and...that's it really. His asking for someone to gun for him is also interesting: I'm assuming that he acts better as scum if he's under pressure, otherwise he wouldn't say this right? But really the case for him lies on faust's reason (since there's not much else about Jimmmmmmm), and I don't think that's good enough. But I will move to him if it gets support.

LaLight...pretty much the only content here is his vote on e...that's it really, he doesn't attempt to justify it, just "gut read" and "probable to be scum lynch". I think LL would try much harder to interact with everyone, especially as scum. But if he doesn't have time, then I think town!LL would try to be more upbeat, more joky, more positive; and I don't see this.

mcmc does some setup talk, briefly votes Uncle...then votes E twice. Comes back, says that he can vote Jimmmmmm or Glooble. I've seen mcmc be really good as town so I don't really want them dead, just put them in the list in case someone mentioned him.

Glooble seems to be thinking the same way as me, anyone else notice that? That makes me want to give him a townread...but really, he's scummy, because I don't recall him being like this in any other game...right? Wasn't he different, more open, more flimsy...I can definitly go here today.

Didds...well...other than the very direct question, she's null, given that I don't know her scum meta so I can't really say what's NAI or not...oh, except the e vote, that was just weird. However, I stand by what I've said a long time ago, that she's scum because of her slip, pretty simple, right?

Space has done a whole lot of nothing this game, are they not very active? I don't remember any post saying that. Their vote is currently on a NAI point and I don't think they've tried to move it: if you look at space's posts, half of them are just fluff...this is a perfect way to be active and not contribute anything (or very little) to the game.

The other 3'll have to be done tomorrow, but I don't really want neither of them to die.

Vote: Space, because, really, reread them, what have they done? Nothing. Yet they're not lurking, right?


TL;DR:

Null+ - mcmc, shraeye, e, Robz

Scummy - Jimmmmmm, Glooble, Didds

Scum - LaLight, Space
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on February 28, 2019, 06:20:38 pm
But really the case for him lies on faust's reason

As per my above post, would you say the same about the others who responded similarly?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on February 28, 2019, 06:36:33 pm
But really the case for him lies on faust's reason

As per my above post, would you say the same about the others who responded similarly?

Everyone who found MiX confusing (shraeye, me, you, Space, and CWL) are all on his lynch list now (well, except CWL). Perhaps he doesnít enjoy scrutiny. Or perhaps what I/we thought was confusing was actually scummy.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Uncleeurope on February 28, 2019, 06:41:54 pm
Nah, heís just confusing in general. Feel free to read his last game for examples of him doing that as town (and getting lynched for it)

He could be confusing and scummy, though, but confusing is just classic MiX.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on February 28, 2019, 06:54:43 pm
Ah, thatís helpful Eddie. Thanks
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: raerae on February 28, 2019, 06:58:41 pm


Ouch, so I don't even make the null list? I find this list extraordinarily suspect considering you didn't get everybody. Seems like you had an agenda going into this and it wasn't just to express reads.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Glooble on February 28, 2019, 07:01:28 pm
I'm not like I have been in other games. I am trying to learn from earlier games and be more helpful.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: raerae on February 28, 2019, 07:04:02 pm


Ouch, so I don't even make the null list? I find this list extraordinarily suspect considering you didn't get everybody. Seems like you had an agenda going into this and it wasn't just to express reads.

Just actually counted and you missed half the players. Why include null reads if you don't include everybody in your read? I get saying "these are scummy, these are townie" but why include nulls at all if you aren't including everybody?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on February 28, 2019, 07:23:31 pm
For a few minutes, I was just gonna quit the game because seriously, my life has too much of that kind of treatment and I donít need more ďfor funĒ. But space and shraeye seem to think heís out of line, too, so maybe my feelings arenít coming out of nowhere.

Last night I was half way through making a post to say that if unapologetic aggressive behaviour is anything other than explicitly condemned by this community then I wanted to quit. Then I realised that I was just too frustrated to post, so I went to bed instead.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on February 28, 2019, 07:51:26 pm
All of that is nonsense to me. This fight is about nothing. Semantics and clarifications at best. Both of the players involved have played games before, there is no reason for offense to be taken here. MiX said something, WCD called them on it, MiX responded... and then the rest of it. Both players are operating way outside of the Town Norms I know them as. So my opinion is it is either Town vs Town or a planned interaction.

Just to offer you another perspective on this: it wasn't "a fight", it was MiX acting in a really rude way, and WCD stating entirely fairly that she wasn't willing to engage with that. The aggression was one-sided, and WCD's comments were statements of disengagement. I think she reacted exactly how I'd expect an adult woman who has her shit together to react when faced with an entitled young male.

However, I really don't think it's particularly alignment-indicative. If MiX's playstyle is to wind people up to see what they'll spill, he could be doing so as any alignment. It seems quite plausible that frustrated/annoyed town will say things that he can successfully twist to get a mislynch through.

I find him quite performative with it, which also makes me not read him as at all genuine. For instance, this is not what you post when you know you're worked up and should step away from the computer:
Sigh...okay, calm down, calm down, you can do this...
What you do is you go away and you don't post at all for a while. Similarly, his apology to WCD read as performance rather than sincere understanding to me. Anyway, I find him un-genuine, and as D1 scumminess goes, that ticks the boxes for me.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on February 28, 2019, 08:00:46 pm
Space has done a whole lot of nothing this game, are they not very active? I don't remember any post saying that. Their vote is currently on a NAI point and I don't think they've tried to move it: if you look at space's posts, half of them are just fluff...this is a perfect way to be active and not contribute anything (or very little) to the game.

I certainly don't find D1 easy. I like wagon analysis, and hunting for scum in interactions. I usually automate a vote counter (though I still haven't taken the time to set it up for this player-list, because there are quite a lot of new names and aliases), make myself a voting-state-by-voting-state view of the game, and then use that to narrow down likely scums, with mixed success.

My activity pattern is that I'm at work up till around 18.30/19.00 UK time, and I'll often read from there while waiting for numbers to crunch or something, but I try to limit my posting to a couple of posts at lunchtime or something because I don't want to set a bad example in my office. I'm often completely offline couple of hours after work, and usually the bulk of my posting for the day is 11pm-1am-ish, though I really should get to sleep earlier than this for the sake of my mental health.

Also, as most people who've played with me before know, I host a boardgames night (that used to be hosted by Haddock, who introduced me to f.ds Mafia in the first place) on a Thursday, so I'm generally not here.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on February 28, 2019, 08:26:50 pm
Vote: MiX

The more I look at that truncated reads list, and think about how many of those folks were involved in his ďtwo voteĒ comment earlier, the way he treated me, then his vote on space, the more it feels like it this was a deliberate ploy
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Uncleeurope on February 28, 2019, 10:43:30 pm
I donít think MiX is a great option today, Scum donít typically want to be antagonizers early. Heís shifty and weird, but he is also scumhunting emphatically early, when there is no need to do that as scum.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: faust on March 01, 2019, 01:01:21 am
That is so adorable. FoS: LaLight, because having 2 votes is double the power!
What did I miss?

Are you the double voter MiX?

When I saw the 2 votes thing I assumed there was a claim I hadn't seen.
Yeah, that was my immediate assumption; and when I looked for it it wasn't there.  Hence my need for an explanation.  And if WestCoast hadn't popped in with the question "are you double voter?" I sure as heck would have.

When I saw the 2 votes thing I assumed there was a claim I hadn't seen.
Same here.

faust: Given all of the above, why did you (cherry?) pick my post? Could you not make the exact same argument of shraeye, WCD and Chicken?

The intent of my post was to support WCD in a situation that seemed a little sour. I agreed with her reaction to MiX and I disagreed with his reaction to her. I also agree that they seem likely to be both Town.
WCD and shraeye posted before clarification, so there was still confusion to be lifted. Chickenwarlord is new, so this is more fogivable for them. If you had wanted to support WCD, you could have siad so, but you didn't.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: faust on March 01, 2019, 01:02:49 am
I would rather lynch Jimmmm or LaLight than Robz.

Whyís that?
I find them actively scummy and Robz just a little annoying.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: faust on March 01, 2019, 01:16:32 am
All of that is nonsense to me. This fight is about nothing. Semantics and clarifications at best. Both of the players involved have played games before, there is no reason for offense to be taken here. MiX said something, WCD called them on it, MiX responded... and then the rest of it. Both players are operating way outside of the Town Norms I know them as. So my opinion is it is either Town vs Town or a planned interaction.

Just to offer you another perspective on this: it wasn't "a fight", it was MiX acting in a really rude way, and WCD stating entirely fairly that she wasn't willing to engage with that. The aggression was one-sided, and WCD's comments were statements of disengagement. I think she reacted exactly how I'd expect an adult woman who has her shit together to react when faced with an entitled young male.
There is, however, a definite hint of aggression in this post.

I find him quite performative with it, which also makes me not read him as at all genuine. For instance, this is not what you post when you know you're worked up and should step away from the computer:
Sigh...okay, calm down, calm down, you can do this...
What you do is you go away and you don't post at all for a while. Similarly, his apology to WCD read as performance rather than sincere understanding to me. Anyway, I find him un-genuine, and as D1 scumminess goes, that ticks the boxes for me.
I do not see what any of this has to do with MiX's alignment. All I see is you disapproving of how MiX responded to criticism. I don't think we should incorporate disagreements on a personal level into the game if we can avoid it.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: faust on March 01, 2019, 01:19:13 am


Ouch, so I don't even make the null list? I find this list extraordinarily suspect considering you didn't get everybody. Seems like you had an agenda going into this and it wasn't just to express reads.
What would the agenda be?

I don't think this is making much sense at all. This is a big game, seems natural to focus on the players that you actually have something to say about. And forgive me, but you just have not been very memorable so far.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Uncleeurope on March 01, 2019, 01:27:38 am
Are LL and Jimmmm equal in your eyes or do you see Jimmmmmmmm as scummier, hence the vote?

Aka, could you just as easily be voting LL?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on March 01, 2019, 02:10:14 am
Waking up in the middle of the night 2 AM phone thought:

faust is actually right, Garak should target his guess for most likely NK and top scumread, and not crumb the NK guess.

If people are going to argue with the concept of having clearly had a top scumread at the end of the day I don't know what I'll do.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on March 01, 2019, 02:13:56 am
Quick post, just wanted to say that I agree with everything faust said, which includes why Jimmmmmmm's post is a little scummy, his comment on Space and...oh that's it. Looked like 3 things. Well not the "Robz is suspicious" part.



Ouch, so I don't even make the null list? I find this list extraordinarily suspect considering you didn't get everybody. Seems like you had an agenda going into this and it wasn't just to express reads.
What would the agenda be?

I don't think this is making much sense at all. This is a big game, seems natural to focus on the players that you actually have something to say about. And forgive me, but you just have not been very memorable so far.

I picked the people that I think will get lynched today (minus me), focusing on others is pointless if we want to get a lynch (close to, shraeye) done.

I also have a feeling I can read raerae well, but I want more info.

Vote: MiX

The more I look at that truncated reads list, and think about how many of those folks were involved in his ďtwo voteĒ comment earlier, the way he treated me, then his vote on space, the more it feels like it this was a deliberate ploy

Coincidence: most of those were very active players + you, so of course they're valid lynch options.

PPE 1
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: DatSwan on March 01, 2019, 02:15:48 am
All of that is nonsense to me. This fight is about nothing. Semantics and clarifications at best. Both of the players involved have played games before, there is no reason for offense to be taken here. MiX said something, WCD called them on it, MiX responded... and then the rest of it. Both players are operating way outside of the Town Norms I know them as. So my opinion is it is either Town vs Town or a planned interaction.

In this game the odds of a planned interaction are kind of diluted given the possibility of skum teams so I am inclined to believe Town vs Town.
A) third parties don't get to decide when offense is allowed/is not allowed to be taken
B) it does not feel planned.  That is a terrible conclusion

MiX vs. WCD felt planned/planted, as posited by DatSwan. 
Absolutely not.  This idea needs to be buried immediately.

Excuse me, but if I may:

A) I did not attempt to state that offense should or should not be taken. All I said is that it seemed like nonsense, and I did not see the reason for offense to be taken. I even laid out a summarized amount of details on my reasoning.

B) Again mis-representing what I said - I said it was, in my opinion,  either Town vs Town or planner interaction. I made absolutely no conclusion whatsoever, other than the fact that I do not think that exactly one of the players is skum ---- this part is also directed at Ashes --- again I did not say that I thought it had to be planned. It could, imo, also be town vs town.

Shraeye - You are wrong. Not for your opinion, or disagreement with my assessment... but you are incorrect that the theory should be buried. It is Day 1 - we know nothing. Nothing should be buried.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on March 01, 2019, 02:21:38 am
I won't be here at deadline, or for like 8+ hours before it, but I'll have plenty of time for this game tomorrow and will put my vote one someone we're actually going to lynch.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Uncleeurope on March 01, 2019, 02:45:04 am
I will also be unavailable during a large hunk of time before deadline, depends on how late I stay up. I wouldnít put much faith in me 4 hours before deadline at least.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Chickenwarlord on March 01, 2019, 02:46:31 am
Well that's going to a be a bit of catching up. Y'all have been busy.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Chickenwarlord on March 01, 2019, 02:59:42 am
MiX vs. WCD felt planned/planted, as posited by DatSwan. 
I don't see how anyone could read the initial back and forth and walk away with that from it.  Having to evaluate everything Ashersky says through the lens of someone who would jump on this conclusion bandwagon is going to be difficult.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: faust on March 01, 2019, 03:13:26 am
Are LL and Jimmmm equal in your eyes or do you see Jimmmmmmmm as scummier, hence the vote?

Aka, could you just as easily be voting LL?
I could be voting LaLight, but Jimmmmm has more votes on him currently.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: faust on March 01, 2019, 03:15:36 am
All of that is nonsense to me. This fight is about nothing. Semantics and clarifications at best. Both of the players involved have played games before, there is no reason for offense to be taken here. MiX said something, WCD called them on it, MiX responded... and then the rest of it. Both players are operating way outside of the Town Norms I know them as. So my opinion is it is either Town vs Town or a planned interaction.

In this game the odds of a planned interaction are kind of diluted given the possibility of skum teams so I am inclined to believe Town vs Town.
A) third parties don't get to decide when offense is allowed/is not allowed to be taken
B) it does not feel planned.  That is a terrible conclusion

MiX vs. WCD felt planned/planted, as posited by DatSwan. 
Absolutely not.  This idea needs to be buried immediately.

Excuse me, but if I may:

A) I did not attempt to state that offense should or should not be taken.
Then you clearly need to work on your phrasing.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Chickenwarlord on March 01, 2019, 03:22:37 am
Chicken, my boy! How much have you read past games? Did you do that at all? Do you know anyone's meta? Maybe at least Gloobles? Also, how active have you been these past days? Will you be here at deadline?
I haven't really done very much reading of past games. I think just a bit of the Ghibli Mafia thread. I do have a modest understanding of Glooble's meta.

I should be here to move at the deadline should my stance change.

I donít think MiX is a great option today, Scum donít typically want to be antagonizers early. Heís shifty and weird, but he is also scumhunting emphatically early, when there is no need to do that as scum.
Agreed. MiX is definitely mixing things up and maybe being a bit too eager. I'm not willing to say that I have a town read there, but certainly wouldn't want MiX as a day 0 lynch target.

faust is actually right, Garak should target his guess for most likely NK and top scumread, and not crumb the NK guess.
If Garak does plan to use his power tonight, this is probably the best way to do it.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on March 01, 2019, 03:33:27 am
I find it really hard to participate and I don't want to be lynched. Most of pressing matters were discussed and I don't feel like I can add anything to them, all I have is reading the tone of certain players, that said, I will make a reads list. Not that it would make me less scummy, but well
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: DatSwan on March 01, 2019, 03:34:11 am
All of that is nonsense to me. This fight is about nothing. Semantics and clarifications at best. Both of the players involved have played games before, there is no reason for offense to be taken here. MiX said something, WCD called them on it, MiX responded... and then the rest of it. Both players are operating way outside of the Town Norms I know them as. So my opinion is it is either Town vs Town or a planned interaction.

Just to offer you another perspective on this: it wasn't "a fight", it was MiX acting in a really rude way, and WCD stating entirely fairly that she wasn't willing to engage with that. The aggression was one-sided, and WCD's comments were statements of disengagement. I think she reacted exactly how I'd expect an adult woman who has her shit together to react when faced with an entitled young male.

However, I really don't think it's particularly alignment-indicative. If MiX's playstyle is to wind people up to see what they'll spill, he could be doing so as any alignment. It seems quite plausible that frustrated/annoyed town will say things that he can successfully twist to get a mislynch through.

I find him quite performative with it, which also makes me not read him as at all genuine. For instance, this is not what you post when you know you're worked up and should step away from the computer:
Sigh...okay, calm down, calm down, you can do this...
What you do is you go away and you don't post at all for a while. Similarly, his apology to WCD read as performance rather than sincere understanding to me. Anyway, I find him un-genuine, and as D1 scumminess goes, that ticks the boxes for me.

I want to respond to this with the preface that if anything I say here comes off as disrespectful - it is 100% unintentional.

This is a game. Based on social interaction to determine a winning faction. It is publicly hosted, so I suppose there is nothing keeping children from it, but I for one (potentially wrong I accept) assume that all players I am talking to are adults.
Aggression should be an assumed part of this game. If we had arguments about one-sided aggression every time it happened on Mafia FDS, we would literally never talk about anything else. That is how we put players on their toes, force interactions that are un-wanted, skum hunt, etc.

Rudeness should not be acceptable, by any means. It is a game, for fun. However, we should not discourage players from interactions outside, even if forceful, as long as they are within the pledge terms. No one should feel like they cannot follow a skum read up based on irrelevant factors such as "entitled male" or "grown woman". Those are bias factors from outside the game state that should not be included. It would probably be better if you just referred to them as "they".  That sounds sarcastic, but I genuinely it not meant to be.

As equally much as you care about the "They vs He vs She" part of a game, I care about the integrity the game. I love all games, but they are only fun because they are games. The real world needs to be respected in games, but also we have to accept that we are playing a game... I get that that is super convoluted, but if you read it over once or twice I think it will make sense I hope.



---Whatever, this is a concept that has come up A LOT in games on this forum since I have started (which has not been that hell of a long time). I am bias, because I am aware that because of the way I post it can come off as rude and I know I do not intend it to be. But really everyone should just dial it back on this stuff. And most importantly, for the sake of the game, at least consider it NAI in regards to these games.


This is literally the last thing I will discuss on this topic during this game. Please file all complaints to your local post office trash bin. If you actually have something you would like to discuss that would make the community better - PM me when the game is over. I will not respond to anything regarding this for the rest of this game.

Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on March 01, 2019, 03:40:34 am
1. Jimmmmm is not participating which I can see him do as both alignments. Mostly I would keep him alive, he's a scary power late in the game if town.
2. UmbrageOfSnow - was active and cool, got a lot of townreads from different people and kind of disappeared?
3. LaLight - me, struggling with going here.
4. DatSwan - Did he do anything?
5. mcmcsalot - Somewhat here, not really noticeable, but I liked that he voted for e, because I felt like me and mcmc got the same feeling
6. Glooble - can't read yet
7. WestCoastDidds - she's still awesome. We're yet to see scum!Didds, but for now I feel like it's good old town!her.
8. SpaceAnemone - Struggling as much as I am, I don't really want to lycnh them, see Jimmmmm
9. Shraeye - I get the different feeling from when we were masons. Could definitely vote there
10. MiX - Don't want to lynch cause I still feel guilt over the last game but at one point, sure. Also, yeah, aggression made me quit Mafia for some time once and also broke two games I was in. It isn't fun.
11. faust - let's see D2
12. ashersky - His activity level changed as we saw in Radch, I can't read him yet. For now feel townie
13. 2.71828..... - strong feeling of actilurking. I don't know, it's like I am reading his posts and then I can't remember what they were about...
14. Robz888 - always up for Robz lynch, you know
15. Awaclus - Is he in this game?
16. Uncleeurope - I am scared of him as of now. But rather would not lynch
17. raerae - don't remember anything from them here
18. chickenwarlord - meh?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: DatSwan on March 01, 2019, 03:40:57 am
All of that is nonsense to me. This fight is about nothing. Semantics and clarifications at best. Both of the players involved have played games before, there is no reason for offense to be taken here. MiX said something, WCD called them on it, MiX responded... and then the rest of it. Both players are operating way outside of the Town Norms I know them as. So my opinion is it is either Town vs Town or a planned interaction.

In this game the odds of a planned interaction are kind of diluted given the possibility of skum teams so I am inclined to believe Town vs Town.
A) third parties don't get to decide when offense is allowed/is not allowed to be taken
B) it does not feel planned.  That is a terrible conclusion

MiX vs. WCD felt planned/planted, as posited by DatSwan. 
Absolutely not.  This idea needs to be buried immediately.

Excuse me, but if I may:

A) I did not attempt to state that offense should or should not be taken.
Then you clearly need to work on your phrasing.

I changed my mind after the original post. It is not my position to decide where offense should or should not be taken. I simply stand on my own opinion at this point that I do not think that offense was meant to be taken at all in this matter.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on March 01, 2019, 03:46:00 am
All of that is nonsense to me. This fight is about nothing. Semantics and clarifications at best. Both of the players involved have played games before, there is no reason for offense to be taken here. MiX said something, WCD called them on it, MiX responded... and then the rest of it. Both players are operating way outside of the Town Norms I know them as. So my opinion is it is either Town vs Town or a planned interaction.

Just to offer you another perspective on this: it wasn't "a fight", it was MiX acting in a really rude way, and WCD stating entirely fairly that she wasn't willing to engage with that. The aggression was one-sided, and WCD's comments were statements of disengagement. I think she reacted exactly how I'd expect an adult woman who has her shit together to react when faced with an entitled young male.

However, I really don't think it's particularly alignment-indicative. If MiX's playstyle is to wind people up to see what they'll spill, he could be doing so as any alignment. It seems quite plausible that frustrated/annoyed town will say things that he can successfully twist to get a mislynch through.

I find him quite performative with it, which also makes me not read him as at all genuine. For instance, this is not what you post when you know you're worked up and should step away from the computer:
Sigh...okay, calm down, calm down, you can do this...
What you do is you go away and you don't post at all for a while. Similarly, his apology to WCD read as performance rather than sincere understanding to me. Anyway, I find him un-genuine, and as D1 scumminess goes, that ticks the boxes for me.

I want to respond to this with the preface that if anything I say here comes off as disrespectful - it is 100% unintentional.

This is a game. Based on social interaction to determine a winning faction. It is publicly hosted, so I suppose there is nothing keeping children from it, but I for one (potentially wrong I accept) assume that all players I am talking to are adults.
Aggression should be an assumed part of this game. If we had arguments about one-sided aggression every time it happened on Mafia FDS, we would literally never talk about anything else. That is how we put players on their toes, force interactions that are un-wanted, skum hunt, etc.

Rudeness should not be acceptable, by any means. It is a game, for fun. However, we should not discourage players from interactions outside, even if forceful, as long as they are within the pledge terms. No one should feel like they cannot follow a skum read up based on irrelevant factors such as "entitled male" or "grown woman". Those are bias factors from outside the game state that should not be included. It would probably be better if you just referred to them as "they".  That sounds sarcastic, but I genuinely it not meant to be.

As equally much as you care about the "They vs He vs She" part of a game, I care about the integrity the game. I love all games, but they are only fun because they are games. The real world needs to be respected in games, but also we have to accept that we are playing a game... I get that that is super convoluted, but if you read it over once or twice I think it will make sense I hope.



---Whatever, this is a concept that has come up A LOT in games on this forum since I have started (which has not been that hell of a long time). I am bias, because I am aware that because of the way I post it can come off as rude and I know I do not intend it to be. But really everyone should just dial it back on this stuff. And most importantly, for the sake of the game, at least consider it NAI in regards to these games.


This is literally the last thing I will discuss on this topic during this game. Please file all complaints to your local post office trash bin. If you actually have something you would like to discuss that would make the community better - PM me when the game is over. I will not respond to anything regarding this for the rest of this game.

I would very much like to respond to this.

As a person who underwent a lot of... let's say aggression in my life, I personally feel 100 times worse when anyone is even irritated with me. If you will have time, skim over some games I played whren I just came here, I was constantly apologizing to people for scumreading them. The reason I am telling this is that you do not know the background of a person and what can really move them or make them feel uncomfortable. I know Mafia can be rude, I played couple of games on other sites where people openly insult each other and wish others the worst things, but the reason I am staying here on fds is that we don't do such things. There is always something that most of people understand not to do, like insults, also there are things that we need to be opened on ó like gender issues. But for me personally ó and I believe for some others ó winning the game is not superior to keeping it friendly. We are a relatively small closed community, we all know each other for quite a long time and doing, say, intentional gender mistakes in one game to determine if Space is scum by basically insulting them is not going to work. Never.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on March 01, 2019, 03:46:53 am
not to fall into meta conversation, we can continue after the game. As for the game, let's please stay calm and friendly. I know you all are great people.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Awaclus on March 01, 2019, 04:08:21 am
Unfortunately we have to have this discussion now because it affects how we read the game and otherwise scum can use it to manipulate the flow of the game to their advantage.

MiX appears to be a bit of an eccentric but I don't think anything he said sounds like it was supposed to be taken as a personal insult, like, at all. I'm not really a huge fan of treating people differently on the basis of age or gender so Didds being an adult woman is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: faust on March 01, 2019, 04:11:32 am
I don't think anything he said sounds like it was supposed to be taken as a personal insult, like, at all.
It does not matter.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Awaclus on March 01, 2019, 04:14:13 am
I don't think anything he said sounds like it was supposed to be taken as a personal insult, like, at all.
It does not matter.

It matters.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: DatSwan on March 01, 2019, 04:16:00 am
I don't think anything he said sounds like it was supposed to be taken as a personal insult, like, at all.
It does not matter.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: DatSwan on March 01, 2019, 04:16:33 am
I don't think anything he said sounds like it was supposed to be taken as a personal insult, like, at all.
It does not matter.


double click. I did not mean to quote this.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Uncleeurope on March 01, 2019, 04:20:52 am
I don't think anything he said sounds like it was supposed to be taken as a personal insult, like, at all.
It does not matter.

Intent does matter, though.

I really wish we could abandon this whole thing, it is needlessly exploding a small situatuation into something much larger than what should be discussed here.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: DatSwan on March 01, 2019, 04:22:53 am
I don't think anything he said sounds like it was supposed to be taken as a personal insult, like, at all.
It does not matter.

Intent does matter, though.

I really wish we could abandon this whole thing, it is needlessly exploding a small situatuation into something much larger than what should be discussed here.

this. to make it clear... as I attempted to. I do NOT want there to be discussion about this IN THIS GAME. Discussion - sure. Right now, we should focus on the game.
We are a pretty tight nit group. I assume no one is intentionally attempting to offend anyone else.
#thoughtthatcounts
#hugitout
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on March 01, 2019, 04:25:06 am
I hereby declare all discussion about civilty, agression, and that one misgendeting thing to be anti-town: all it does is get people riled up, cluttering the thread with emotions, which is bad this close to deadline. If yoy want to learn my meta, I'll tell you what I told Didds: I act like this when I find a scumslip, CLEARLY this isn't acceptable here, so I'll drop it.

END OF DISCUSSION

Thank you for your understanding.

MiX is definitely mixing things up

I live for this. Also, do you think Glooble's following his townmeta?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Chickenwarlord on March 01, 2019, 04:27:35 am
This isn't literary theory- we're not dealing with a death of the author situation. We are dealing with living breathing beings on both ends and no one can invalidate a gut reaction.
It doesn't matter how it was intended - an initial visceral reaction to impolite aggression can't be discounted because the other side didn't seek to elicit that specific response. We ALL have to deal with the fallout when someone's personal boundaries are breached and make changes so there isn't a another.

Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: faust on March 01, 2019, 04:29:07 am
I hereby declare all discussion about civilty, agression, and that one misgendeting thing to be anti-town: all it does is get people riled up, cluttering the thread with emotions, which is bad this close to deadline. If yoy want to learn my meta, I'll tell you what I told Didds: I act like this when I find a scumslip, CLEARLY this isn't acceptable here, so I'll drop it.

END OF DISCUSSION

Thank you for your understanding.
You know I was trying to be charitable but clearly Space's assessment of you is spot on.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: DatSwan on March 01, 2019, 04:31:10 am
I hereby declare all discussion about civilty, agression, and that one misgendeting thing to be anti-town: all it does is get people riled up, cluttering the thread with emotions, which is bad this close to deadline. If yoy want to learn my meta, I'll tell you what I told Didds: I act like this when I find a scumslip, CLEARLY this isn't acceptable here, so I'll drop it.

END OF DISCUSSION

Thank you for your understanding.

MiX is definitely mixing things up

I live for this. Also, do you think Glooble's following his townmeta?

Glooble is town imo.... I am basing that on exactly one game, but I suspected him as skum for like all of that game and then he was town and he is hitting all those points.

Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: faust on March 01, 2019, 04:32:19 am
I don't think anything he said sounds like it was supposed to be taken as a personal insult, like, at all.
It does not matter.

Intent does matter, though.

I really wish we could abandon this whole thing, it is needlessly exploding a small situatuation into something much larger than what should be discussed here.
*sigh*

Yes this is hyperbole. I thought you of all people would understand. But Awaclus's post seems to imply that if insult was not intended, then everything is peachy. It's not.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Awaclus on March 01, 2019, 04:34:50 am
I hereby declare all discussion about civilty, agression, and that one misgendeting thing to be anti-town: all it does is get people riled up, cluttering the thread with emotions, which is bad this close to deadline.

It's not anti-town to get people riled up.

Yes this is hyperbole. I thought you of all people would understand. But Awaclus's post seems to imply that if insult was not intended, then everything is peachy. It's not.

I'm not trying to find out whether or not everything is peachy, I'm trying to find out whether or not any of the people involved are scum.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: DatSwan on March 01, 2019, 04:34:59 am
I hereby declare all discussion about civilty, agression, and that one misgendeting thing to be anti-town: all it does is get people riled up, cluttering the thread with emotions, which is bad this close to deadline. If yoy want to learn my meta, I'll tell you what I told Didds: I act like this when I find a scumslip, CLEARLY this isn't acceptable here, so I'll drop it.

END OF DISCUSSION

Thank you for your understanding.
You know I was trying to be charitable but clearly Space's assessment of you is spot on.

Move on man. not being bossy, just what are we gaining from it at this point? At least for now. Or at the minimum at least until we are not 30 hours to DL. If you insist just wait for tomorrow.
 I am so sorry now I even posted the damn thing, I meant to be more of a #Go_FDS_FAM thing... not a #TheirCanOnlyBeOneHighlander_FDS thing...
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: DatSwan on March 01, 2019, 04:38:37 am
I hate it that the two of you have your stuff turned to "offline". Many nights of sitting around wondering if I am gonna be talking to myself or if I get to talk to another person.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Chickenwarlord on March 01, 2019, 04:43:24 am
I am so sorry now I even posted the damn thing, I meant to be more of a #Go_FDS_FAM thing... not a #TheirCanOnlyBeOneHighlander_FDS thing...
Could you explain to me what those acronyms are for? I'm not readily familiar with all the shorthand.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: DatSwan on March 01, 2019, 04:49:08 am
I am so sorry now I even posted the damn thing, I meant to be more of a #Go_FDS_FAM thing... not a #TheirCanOnlyBeOneHighlander_FDS thing...
Could you explain to me what those acronyms are for? I'm not readily familiar with all the shorthand.
Wow this is gonna get a lot longer lol:

#Go_FDS_FAM = Go ForumDomionStrategy Family!
#TheirCanOnlyBeOneHighlander_FDS = ... I don;t know how to insert images... but imagine a 7 foot Norwegian guy holding a broadsword traveling through time that can't die... kind of.


Imagine Arnold Schwartnager... but like combined with the guy from Princess Bride.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: DatSwan on March 01, 2019, 04:50:39 am
Also, as long as we have you here Chicken...

Who is your top two skum reads?

Who are the two people you would not lynch right now?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Chickenwarlord on March 01, 2019, 04:59:06 am
Also, as long as we have you here Chicken...

Who is your top two skum reads?

Who are the two people you would not lynch right now?

I'd say Robbz is probably my #1 skumread at the moment.
A lot of other people are swarming at minor suspicion level, including yourself and Jimmmmm.

I'd hold off on lynching MiX and Faust.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Chickenwarlord on March 01, 2019, 05:03:06 am
I'd hold off on lynching MiX and Faust.
And by hold off, I mean we should definitely wait to see what goes down in the night, not that they're at the bottom of my suspicion list.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on March 01, 2019, 05:41:11 am
You should vote for Robz then. Or are you already?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Glooble on March 01, 2019, 06:42:35 am
Iím not going to be on much today, FYI. I suspect our mod wonít either- weíre doing a day of fun for our birthday. Iíll pop in a bit late afternoon/ evening, and Iíll wake up a few hours before deadline to make sure I can move my vote somewhere useful.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on March 01, 2019, 07:36:23 am
Happy birthday, Glooble and Joth!

Vote: Robz

Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on March 01, 2019, 08:27:59 am
Friends,

I appreciate the insight about my response to MiXís aggression. I do not think it was a fight. I was not trying to engage him or argue with him about this issue. I objected to being ordered around and chastised for asking a question. I thought his level of aggressiveness and the fact that he felt justified in barking orders based on a confusion that he created to be unnecessary and hostile.

Specifically, in his response to me about the agressiveness of his post he says (Iím responding in bold in the quote box):

I was too agressive, I know: this is how I act when someone scumslips.
This is not an apology. It is a justification.

What do you mean by "doubling down"? I was never on you...and yes, I do believe the rules have been established, no one disagreed with anything UoS posted in that list (IIRC faust only had a problem with the Garak part).
Doubling down, in this context, means digging in and redoubling your efforts. So I said to back off with the ordering me around (Do what I say! Now!) and you dug in and insisted that you are justified.

I get to order around my scumreads. Especially when they slip this hard...it's not at all scummy to do so, because "scummy in life" does not exist.
You have retracted this (although did not apologize for saying it), so I will not belabor the point, but this is the essence of my issue. If you think I (or anyone) is scum, then make the case. No one has to answer to you or obey your commands. Not doing so does not make them scummy. It gives them agency. ďScummy in lifeĒ means being aggressive and hostile, and it absolutely exists. This is a game, but it is also a community and all is not not forgiven just because we are playing.

I do not think intent matters in regard to offense, but that is irrelevant here because MiX absolutely intended to treat me as he did. He does not see anything wrong with it. His apology was all about him needing to calm down because HE was angry, and then later the ďsorry, sorry, sorry, sorryĒ is reminiscent of the always-hollow ďIím sorry that you are offendedĒ variety non-apology. Some of you see nothing wrong with it either, and that is up to you. I did, I said so, and then I took some time away from the situation. No one has found that irrational or untoward, so Iím cool with continuing. If others had piled on, Iíd have left the game.

I appreciate that Space, Shraeye, Jimmm, and CWL weighted in on the confusion part. I appreciate faust and space continuing to comment on the communication in our community. I appreciate what DatSwan is trying to do in the f.dsFamily idea, although I disagree with his assessment of the situation. I disagree with Asherskyís assessment, but that is not unique. I appreciate LLís perspective and I think itís important to remember that behavior that drives people away for our community is not optimal.

MiX has declared that the Discussion has Ended which is funny because if he had his way, there never would have been a discussion and it seeems like that I should get a say in that declaration since it functions to silence me. However, I agree that there doesnít seem to be much more to say about it. I donít think being hostile is a legit way ďto mix things upĒ and I (perhaps naively) hope that respect is always more important than the game. I think it is freaking awesome that this community came up with its own civility code and holds its members to it.

So, that is where I am at and what I think. And now I have to go to work. Hi ho, hi ho...

Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 01, 2019, 08:35:32 am
So I agree with swan, on like everything, also heís super towny with the way heís gone about things.

As for mix I donít think heís scum, I donít think we have enough of a built up meta to know that he is being un genuine (in fact we do have a meta of him being confusing and long winded and getting lynched as town for it).

Oookay, so I reread the mix/wcd scenario at here is what it looks like alignment wise and tonally from the outside.

Mix is town and got really excited because he thinks scum!wcd slipped by accidentally asking him to confirm or deny if he was a pr. This is a super weak argument that an overly excited newer payer comes up with. When you think about it town!wcd is way more likely to make this mistake then scum!wcd because town!wcdís is confused about everyoneís role/alignment and wants to figure thinks out, scum!wcd wants to not cause a stir and not get lynched. So mix goes real aggressive over a really bad argument.

Wcd in response did get a bit heated which I havenít seen her before which is the only thing potentially alignment indicative in the whole mess but itís not outright scummy to be frustrated when someone is really aggressive in tone toward you so this is more something to file away and reflect on post game if it turns out wcd is scum. This is just a good measure for all players for example Iím liable to be strongly defensive as scum and not as town, robz is the opposite strongly defensive as town and cool as a cucumber under pressure as scum.


So all in all I think mix should drop his weak argument for wcd being scum and people should drop the idea that mix is scum because he is super loud and bull headedly pushing a bad case.

Iím off to make some good cases now.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on March 01, 2019, 08:46:10 am
Mcmc..... why do some people call you ďmom salonĒ??
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: shraeye on March 01, 2019, 08:54:34 am
I hate it that the two of you have your stuff turned to "offline". Many nights of sitting around wondering if I am gonna be talking to myself or if I get to talk to another person.

This is me too.  I'm never trying to check to see "oooh, guuurrrrl, BBB is online abd not posting how scummy!!". But I do want to know if sitting around waiting for a convo is worthwhile or not.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Awaclus on March 01, 2019, 08:58:37 am
Mcmc..... why do some people call you ďmom salonĒ??

Mcmcsalot got autocorrected.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: raerae on March 01, 2019, 09:00:48 am


Ouch, so I don't even make the null list? I find this list extraordinarily suspect considering you didn't get everybody. Seems like you had an agenda going into this and it wasn't just to express reads.
What would the agenda be?

I don't think this is making much sense at all. This is a big game, seems natural to focus on the players that you actually have something to say about. And forgive me, but you just have not been very memorable so far.

It's the null that's getting to me. I get it's a big game, it's overwhelming, reads on only people you have reads on makes sense but why even include a null bucket then?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: faust on March 01, 2019, 09:02:42 am
I hate it that the two of you have your stuff turned to "offline". Many nights of sitting around wondering if I am gonna be talking to myself or if I get to talk to another person.

This is me too.  I'm never trying to check to see "oooh, guuurrrrl, BBB is online abd not posting how scummy!!". But I do want to know if sitting around waiting for a convo is worthwhile or not.
I don't think me showing my online status would be of much use to you though as it would just mean that I have an f.ds tab on in my browser while I'm off doing other stuff. That happens a lot.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: shraeye on March 01, 2019, 09:05:58 am
That makes sense too, faust.  I've been accused of being online before but it usually means that I have fds tabs open on my computer, which I literally do all the time.  I was talking more "Faust is currently posting" messages.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on March 01, 2019, 09:09:44 am
Vote Count 1.6

*chirp* "O'Brien to Rom. I could use your help up here in Ops. The internal sensors are on the fritz again"

"You bet Chief! I'll be rrright there!"

Closing up the panel he's working on in the docking ring, Rom waddles to the turbolift and indicates on the control panel he's heading to Ops.

The door slides closed. A minute later it slides open again. General Martok and Kai Winn get in.

The Ferengi, the Klingon, and the Bajoran are awkwardly cramped in the tiny elevator.

"Uhhh... Nice weather we're having," says Rom.

Martok and Winn regard him with dismay.

"What are you talking about, Ferengi?" Martok growls. "There's no weather on a space station."

"Uhhh... Good point. How's the weather down on Bajor, your Holiness. I mean, your Worshipfulness. I mean, Miss Kai?"

"The Prophets have blessed us with ample rains, my child," the Kai says through pursed lips.

"TThhat's nice," says Rom. "It rains all the time where I'm from. Iiii kind of miss it, actually."

The door finally opens, ending the awkward conversation. But Martok gets the last word, as he's prone to do.

"There may not be weather on this station, but I still sense a storm brewing," he says grimly.


faust (1): UmbrageOfSnow
2.71828..... (4): mcmcsalot, LaLight, Robz888, Awaclus
shraeye (2): raerae, Jimmmmm
MiX (1): SpaceAnemone
chickenwarlord (1): DatSwan
Jimmmmm (2): Glooble, faust
Awaclus (1): ashersky
Robz888 (3): 2.71828....., Uncleeurope, WestCoastDidds
Glooble (1): shraeye
SpaceAnemone (1): MiX

No Lynch (1): chickenwarlord

With 18 alive, it takes 10 to lynch most players. Day 1 ends at 8 a.m. forum time on Saturday, March 2. That's in just under 23 hours!

This will likely be your last vote count before the last vote count, as I'll be out and about most of the day on not able to check in. I will try to check in at least often enough to lock the thread in case of a hammer.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 01, 2019, 09:14:08 am
Mcmc..... why do some people call you ďmom salonĒ??

Like awaclus said Ashersky got autocorrected once when typing my name and it came out as
Mom salon. It stuck because it was funny and cute like me!
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 01, 2019, 09:14:56 am


Ouch, so I don't even make the null list? I find this list extraordinarily suspect considering you didn't get everybody. Seems like you had an agenda going into this and it wasn't just to express reads.
What would the agenda be?

I don't think this is making much sense at all. This is a big game, seems natural to focus on the players that you actually have something to say about. And forgive me, but you just have not been very memorable so far.

It's the null that's getting to me. I get it's a big game, it's overwhelming, reads on only people you have reads on makes sense but why even include a null bucket then?

I agree this is weird but still donít want to lynch mix. Raerae off my list for today though
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on March 01, 2019, 09:23:46 am
It stuck because it was funny and cute like me!

And this is why you are awesome!
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 01, 2019, 09:32:17 am
Mcmc Post Count 1.0


75 faust: 79-4
52 MiX: 54-2
51 Glooble: 53-2
44 UmbrageOfSnow: 45-1
44 Shraeye: 47-3
40 2.71828.....: 42-2
32 WestCoastDidds: 34-2
26 raerae: 30-4
25 mcmcsalot: 28-3
25 DatSwan: 26-1
25 Uncleeurope: 27-2
18 SpaceAnemone: 20-2
15 LaLight: 16-1
14 chickenwarlord: 15-1
14 ashersky: 16-2
14 Awaclus: 15-1
12 Jimmmmm: 15-3
10 Robz888: 11-1

That took way to long on mobile
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: shraeye on March 01, 2019, 09:49:00 am
Right; lets talk reads. 

Here's who seems like they're engaging well, acting towny to me; drawing questions/discussions about eachother:
MiX,
DatSwan,
faust,
WestCoastDidds

Here's who I've taken off my table for various good/bad/irrelevant reasons:
UncleEurope,
chicken,
Robz

Here's my thoughts on e:
I feel like they were getting suspicion early on for being chipper and jokey.  It seems like they were getting slight impressions, magnifying them 1000% either A) because it's funny or B) because that makes people go "What?!" and get this big game rolling.  I put big townpoints on them for that.  My recollection is that once people started saying e was suspicious, then 2.71 started making more muted opinions.  I don't like that; reacting when others perceive you as scummy isn't in general good.  Like, if large cases were happening, and 2.71's defending them....coool.  But if people are like "feels weird" and then 2.71 changes the vibes they're putting out....don't love that.  So the townpoints will probably carry 2.71 off my list tonight.  But 2.71 is not my biggest townread no more.

Here's my gut feeling on our lurker-ish folk:
Jimmmm=good,
Robz = good (see above),
Awaclus = bad,
LaLight = bad

Here's a set of null folk:
SpaceAnenome (who's name I can't say out loud),
raerae (surprising null read, usually I sort that one out pretty quick; I blame my utter failure last game for breaking my radar)

Here's some people who's content I've disagreed with, and I'm still trying to decide if that makes me at all suspicious of them. heart says "Yes!", brain says "that's absurd", heart asks "why?", brain says "what they feel is what they feel. they could be scum or not", heart says "you said 'could be scum' so I win and you can't take it back":
Umbrage (probably not, it's his setup analysis that I'm against; also his faust vote/game/reasoning was awful)
mcmcs (yeah sorta, he feels like the leader of the bad votes on e)

Now to the bottom end of the list:
Glooble:
There's Glooble/ash Ferengi confusion that made me suspicious
Still feels like he's saying an awful lot and pushing an awful little.  That disparity is scummier than either thing by itself.  MiX is saying/pushing a lot.  Robz is saying/pushing nothing.  Cool, consistency.
He was vocally saying that gut-based reads aren't good
THIS piece, always interests me; it felt like suspicion was up and on him, but I vote, Uncle votes, and then crickets...that always raises my eyebrows off my face.  On reread, I was again thinking that I knee-jerked myself into a scumread, but it just magnifies my suspicions so much when people get cold feet and don't vote for someone they suspect.  So, Glooble's staying in my would-lynch list.

Ashersky:
Ash gets suspicion for "I don't think anybody is townreading him, I recall people saying he's scummy, but why is nobody voting for him???"
That Ferengi plan was suspect man;  ashersky prides himself on thinking through setups deeply, finding great strategies that will break things down and help town.  So he put forth something which even dumb ol' shraeye could see didn't make sense.  Usually he's thinking two levels ahead of me, so it is suspicious at all heck when he's thinking even one step behind me.  Definitely felt like he was trying to "match" his town-plan meta and put out something he really hadn't thought through at all.


So
vote: ashersky
for now.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: shraeye on March 01, 2019, 09:50:00 am
PS: I'm mad at everybody, because literally the only vote on the bottom half of my list is ashersky voting for Awaclus....seriously?!?  Are you all one massive scumteam??
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on March 01, 2019, 09:50:23 am
mcmc, Thank you!

what does the number-dash-number mean?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: raerae on March 01, 2019, 09:50:55 am
Okay, I've got a grand total of one townread (Uncle, because he laughed at a joke I made, he never laughed at any of the amazing jokes I made last game even though he was given ample opportunity, this is good enough for me) and no strong scumreads.  I am suspicious of e, MiX, Glooble for being on #teamnotshraeye, still seems like a weird stance to take for virtually no reason.  Basically I'm saying my vote's for sale, if there's a reasonable case out there I'll bite on it.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: faust on March 01, 2019, 09:54:41 am
Okay, I've got a grand total of one townread (Uncle, because he laughed at a joke I made, he never laughed at any of the amazing jokes I made last game even though he was given ample opportunity, this is good enough for me) and no strong scumreads.  I am suspicious of e, MiX, Glooble for being on #teamnotshraeye, still seems like a weird stance to take for virtually no reason.  Basically I'm saying my vote's for sale, if there's a reasonable case out there I'll bite on it.
If you vote Jimmmmm then I promise I won't hammer you tomorrow!
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on March 01, 2019, 10:02:00 am
I would be okay with lynching Jimmm, but don't want to leave the 2.7 wagon, since it's more of a thing.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: shraeye on March 01, 2019, 10:05:38 am
But it's a lame thing.  Are you on it because it's a thing? Or because you think it's the right thing?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 01, 2019, 10:06:03 am
Havenít read since my last post.



ALL TOO EARLY VOLTAIRE STYLE POE

Not Lynching
faust: post count and its faust. (duh)
MiX: post count and hes playing far to rambunctious for D1 scum after being lynch for being too talkative as town. (a new player who is rivaling faust in posts thank you so much)
WestCoastDidds: scum will kill her eventually when shes confirmed town. (trust me it happens)
DatSwan: really agree with what hes been putting out and a really strong player. (can we be friends this game)
ashersky: it's not time (you just wait)
Uncleeurope: made a partner call D1 (after my own heart)
Awaclus: I hate his play-style so much more as scum than town so y'all gotta deal with it (love you bud)
UmbrageOfSnow: you've been helpful
SpaceAnemone: will be super usefull later (also annoyingly hard to lynch)
LaLight: I have stopped being able to read you so so much.

Would Lynch
2.71828.....: So its that right away the shraeye IC and we should vote faust stuff is really unlike him. ALso don't like D1 passes for everyone he hasn't played with its an easy non alignment indicative way to narrow down players. Says he created a scum read on faust for fun not for reactions, one is town and one is silly. First towny thing he does is say wcd/mix is townvtown, thats not a fun post to make as scum. Going for robz is also very NAI since its always easy as scum and defendable as town.(thanks for that meta robz)
raerae: upon reread actually kinda scummy. Very "its okay everyone" style posts. The only antagonism she puts out is toward shraeye which is very safe since its easily covered by their relationship. I changed my mind shes back on the list.
Jimmmmm/Robz888: Y'all cant keep doing this every game. Care about your teams game and not just your own. Or maybe from now on you guys should pick one person and pretend you are playing a game with two peopel for day one then at least you will say something to someone...
Glooble: need to reread but I think I disagree with stuff you've said
Shraeye: the whole no lynch thing is super smart scum play, its not a terrible thing cuz statistics an all that jazz.
chickenwarlord: Do you fight for the chickens or against them, this is important.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: raerae on March 01, 2019, 10:07:01 am
Okay, I've got a grand total of one townread (Uncle, because he laughed at a joke I made, he never laughed at any of the amazing jokes I made last game even though he was given ample opportunity, this is good enough for me) and no strong scumreads.  I am suspicious of e, MiX, Glooble for being on #teamnotshraeye, still seems like a weird stance to take for virtually no reason.  Basically I'm saying my vote's for sale, if there's a reasonable case out there I'll bite on it.
If you vote Jimmmmm then I promise I won't hammer you tomorrow!

Negotiations are open!  How about you don't even vote me tomorrow?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 01, 2019, 10:08:49 am
mcmc, Thank you!

what does the number-dash-number mean?

(In game posts) Playername: total posts-pregame posts= In game posts

So any future posts count you just need to get everyoneís total posts and can subtract my pre game posts. It wasnít as relevant as I thought in this game, sometimes in games that wait awhile to start players can get big pre game post stats that inflate the in game posts
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: raerae on March 01, 2019, 10:11:38 am
mcmc, how does scum benefit from not lynching today?  How can a No Lynch be both anti-town and anti-scum?

Also, I now have two townreads!  Add mcmc to the list, that flipflop on me was too violent to be anything but town.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 01, 2019, 10:12:21 am
Iím amending my post:

Shraeye is off my list for today. And I agree with his thoughts on E, heís been much townie since he got some pressure by that is also how scum!E would have reacted.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on March 01, 2019, 10:13:26 am
But really the case for him lies on faust's reason

As per my above post, would you say the same about the others who responded similarly?

Eh, I sorta expected it from them, but not you. As faust said, you didn't have to do it...felt like a cheap way to add a post, but what do I know. I have a really good argument for why I don't care about the others: shraeye was really gentle on the way he asked, you already heard everything I have to say about Didds and chicken's a new player.

So all in all I think mix should drop his weak argument for wcd being scum and people should drop the idea that mix is scum because he is super loud and bull headedly pushing a bad case.

I like this whole post, which means I should listen to this...fine! I accept that town!didds would do the same. But not this way. But last time I tunneled like this I was preeetty wrong, so I'll listen to you.

It's the null that's getting to me. I get it's a big game, it's overwhelming, reads on only people you have reads on makes sense but why even include a null bucket then?

Hmm...

Yes, yes, the read list is coming, but I think it's only useful to consider people that I think will actually get lynched...in fact I'll state those now: Jimmmmm, e, Didds, Space, LL, shraeye, Glooble, mcmc; in no particular order.

And...

I picked the people that I think will get lynched today (minus me), focusing on others is pointless if we want to get a lynch (close to, shraeye) done.

I can add you here if you want, but all I have to say is...I think I'll find out what she is with more interaction.

Mcmc talked a lot, next post's probably about them.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on March 01, 2019, 10:15:32 am
I can add you here if you want, but all I have to say is...I think I'll find out what she is with more interaction.

Heh, I said "you" and "she" in the same sentence both refering to raerae.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: shraeye on March 01, 2019, 10:16:08 am
I would be okay with lynching Jimmm, but don't want to leave the 2.7 wagon, since it's more of a thing.
We could make ash a thing!! do it! do it!
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 01, 2019, 10:16:33 am
mcmc, how does scum benefit from not lynching today?  How can a No Lynch be both anti-town and anti-scum?

Also, I now have two townreads!  Add mcmc to the list, that flipflop on me was too violent to be anything but town.

Oh you are confused on what I meant, I see how you got that.

Proposing a no-lynch as scum is a good thing to do because technically itís not actually the worst play for town as shraeye pointed out. So itís somethig a scum can talk about, itís something thatís not actually going to happen, and itís something that has a pro-town edge case. So scum!shraeye gets to discuss a non relevant thing that could be coming from town.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: shraeye on March 01, 2019, 10:19:39 am
ashersky: it's not time (you just wait)

2.71828.....: So its that right away the shraeye IC and we should vote faust stuff is really unlike him. ALso don't like D1 passes for everyone he hasn't played with its an easy non alignment indicative way to narrow down players. Says he created a scum read on faust for fun not for reactions, one is town and one is silly. First towny thing he does is say wcd/mix is townvtown, thats not a fun post to make as scum. Going for robz is also very NAI since its always easy as scum and defendable as town.(thanks for that meta robz)

It IS time!  let's do it!

Also, reread 2.71 from the perspective "he's being tongue in cheek and trying to jumpstart the game".  It's a perfect explanation.  It's time to get off that lame wagon and onto the super-awesome ash wagon that everybody's talking about!
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 01, 2019, 10:20:32 am
I would be okay with lynching Jimmm, but don't want to leave the 2.7 wagon, since it's more of a thing.

Robz is your ring on the 2.7 wagon totally a sheeping of me or is there more?

Also why okay with jimm?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 01, 2019, 10:22:36 am

It IS time!  let's do it!

Also, reread 2.71 from the perspective "he's being tongue in cheek and trying to jumpstart the game".  It's a perfect explanation.  It's time to get off that lame wagon and onto the super-awesome ash wagon that everybody's talking about!

Convince me of the ash wagon with reasons, I totally understand the town!2.7 game I just
Also see a scum!2.7 game which is better than the null reads or only town perspectives I have on a lot of other players.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: raerae on March 01, 2019, 10:23:48 am
mcmc, how does scum benefit from not lynching today?  How can a No Lynch be both anti-town and anti-scum?

Also, I now have two townreads!  Add mcmc to the list, that flipflop on me was too violent to be anything but town.

Oh you are confused on what I meant, I see how you got that.

Proposing a no-lynch as scum is a good thing to do because technically itís not actually the worst play for town as shraeye pointed out. So itís somethig a scum can talk about, itís something thatís not actually going to happen, and itís something that has a pro-town edge case. So scum!shraeye gets to discuss a non relevant thing that could be coming from town.

People really need to stop giving shraeye any cred, one way or the other, for proposing a No Lynch.  It's something he believes to his core and something he proposes in nearly every game he plays.  It's like if I opened every game with saying "Animals are better than humans!"  It doesn't say anything about my alignment, it just is a belief I hold. 
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Awaclus on March 01, 2019, 10:26:58 am
It's like if I opened every game with saying "Animals are better than humans!"  It doesn't say anything about my alignment, it just is a belief I hold.

That's like saying Victory cards are better than Provinces.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on March 01, 2019, 10:29:13 am
Iím caught up. I take back the plan comment, clearly not after all the continued discussion. If it had just disappeared poof style it would have seemed not genuine.

Shraeye is silly but not scummy, even though his vote on me is pointless and misguided. The ferengi thing wasnít a plan so much as thought based on a misread.

I think raerae is a good day one lynch today ó sheís ensured her only memorable interactions are with one (towny) player and hasnít added any content otherwise.

vote: raerae anyone?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 01, 2019, 10:29:44 am
mcmc, how does scum benefit from not lynching today?  How can a No Lynch be both anti-town and anti-scum?

Also, I now have two townreads!  Add mcmc to the list, that flipflop on me was too violent to be anything but town.

Oh you are confused on what I meant, I see how you got that.

Proposing a no-lynch as scum is a good thing to do because technically itís not actually the worst play for town as shraeye pointed out. So itís somethig a scum can talk about, itís something thatís not actually going to happen, and itís something that has a pro-town edge case. So scum!shraeye gets to discuss a non relevant thing that could be coming from town.

People really need to stop giving shraeye any cred, one way or the other, for proposing a No Lynch.  It's something he believes to his core and something he proposes in nearly every game he plays.  It's like if I opened every game with saying "Animals are better than humans!"  It doesn't say anything about my alignment, it just is a belief I hold.

Just because itís a meta doesnít make it less scummy. Your statement has nothing to do with the game and wouldnít get you many posts nor would people care.

Shraeye proposing a no-lynch is scummy because it lets him do something that isnít outright alignment indicative. Itís sort of a catch-22 I get that but Iím of the opinion he should get scum points for it (because it technically doesnít give him scum points but also isnít helpful).

Itís similar to players that are overly reliant on setup analysis/night actions. I think space is a good example of someone who was reliant on that, then hey started getting scum read for being passive early on and then their meta changed slightly to be more pro-town.

Iím a big fan of forcing people to have less ďscum safeĒ metas. Like I should not be allowed to tunnel as much as town, I do and it makes it really easy to safely tunnel as scum.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 01, 2019, 10:30:12 am
Iíll join ash vote: raerae
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: raerae on March 01, 2019, 10:30:58 am
Iím caught up. I take back the plan comment, clearly not after all the continued discussion. If it had just disappeared poof style it would have seemed not genuine.

Shraeye is silly but not scummy, even though his vote on me is pointless and misguided. The ferengi thing wasnít a plan so much as thought based on a misread.

I think raerae is a good day one lynch today ó sheís ensured her only memorable interactions are with one (towny) player and hasnít added any content otherwise.

vote: raerae anyone?

So how does that makes me an informative lynch for town?  You're proposing a lynch of somebody who's few interactions are with somebody you have a townread on.  That seems exceedingly unhelpful to town.

Vote: ash
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: shraeye on March 01, 2019, 10:36:15 am
[raerae] ensured her only memorable interactions are with one (towny) player and hasnít added any content otherwise.
Which towny player is that?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: faust on March 01, 2019, 10:37:08 am
Okay, I've got a grand total of one townread (Uncle, because he laughed at a joke I made, he never laughed at any of the amazing jokes I made last game even though he was given ample opportunity, this is good enough for me) and no strong scumreads.  I am suspicious of e, MiX, Glooble for being on #teamnotshraeye, still seems like a weird stance to take for virtually no reason.  Basically I'm saying my vote's for sale, if there's a reasonable case out there I'll bite on it.
If you vote Jimmmmm then I promise I won't hammer you tomorrow!

Negotiations are open!  How about you don't even vote me tomorrow?
Hmmm... alright, you've got a deal. But it is off if you change your vote afterwards.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: raerae on March 01, 2019, 10:39:35 am
raerae: upon reread actually kinda scummy. Very "its okay everyone" style posts. The only antagonism she puts out is toward shraeye which is very safe since its easily covered by their relationship. I changed my mind shes back on the list.

Can you give an example of this?  I don't remember passing out warm fuzzies this game.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: raerae on March 01, 2019, 10:40:43 am
Okay, I've got a grand total of one townread (Uncle, because he laughed at a joke I made, he never laughed at any of the amazing jokes I made last game even though he was given ample opportunity, this is good enough for me) and no strong scumreads.  I am suspicious of e, MiX, Glooble for being on #teamnotshraeye, still seems like a weird stance to take for virtually no reason.  Basically I'm saying my vote's for sale, if there's a reasonable case out there I'll bite on it.
If you vote Jimmmmm then I promise I won't hammer you tomorrow!

Negotiations are open!  How about you don't even vote me tomorrow?
Hmmm... alright, you've got a deal. But it is off if you change your vote afterwards.

Can you look at ash real quicklike before we shake on it?  Generally what shraeye said and specifically his reason and vote on me.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 01, 2019, 10:41:31 am
Iím caught up. I take back the plan comment, clearly not after all the continued discussion. If it had just disappeared poof style it would have seemed not genuine.

Shraeye is silly but not scummy, even though his vote on me is pointless and misguided. The ferengi thing wasnít a plan so much as thought based on a misread.

I think raerae is a good day one lynch today ó sheís ensured her only memorable interactions are with one (towny) player and hasnít added any content otherwise.

vote: raerae anyone?

So how does that makes me an informative lynch for town?  You're proposing a lynch of somebody who's few interactions are with somebody you have a townread on.  That seems exceedingly unhelpful to town.

Vote: ash

He didnít say you were an informative lynch he said you are a good one. I agree your lynch isnít super informative
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: raerae on March 01, 2019, 10:42:59 am
Iím caught up. I take back the plan comment, clearly not after all the continued discussion. If it had just disappeared poof style it would have seemed not genuine.

Shraeye is silly but not scummy, even though his vote on me is pointless and misguided. The ferengi thing wasnít a plan so much as thought based on a misread.

I think raerae is a good day one lynch today ó sheís ensured her only memorable interactions are with one (towny) player and hasnít added any content otherwise.

vote: raerae anyone?

So how does that makes me an informative lynch for town?  You're proposing a lynch of somebody who's few interactions are with somebody you have a townread on.  That seems exceedingly unhelpful to town.

Vote: ash

He didnít say you were an informative lynch he said you are a good one. I agree your lynch isnít super informative

I don't get it.  The only good lynch is an informative lynch, otherwise you're just killing to kill, what's the point? 
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 01, 2019, 10:43:15 am
raerae: upon reread actually kinda scummy. Very "its okay everyone" style posts. The only antagonism she puts out is toward shraeye which is very safe since its easily covered by their relationship. I changed my mind shes back on the list.

Can you give an example of this?  I don't remember passing out warm fuzzies this game.

Oo so hard on mobile, I promise Iíll get to this at some point Iíve got to do some work now. I think it was during the mix/wcd thing though scum would have wanted that to get bigger so it canít have just been that.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 01, 2019, 10:43:41 am
A scum lynch is the best lynch regardless of how informative it is.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on March 01, 2019, 10:44:04 am
That vote count should be 1.6, right?

Okay, this narrows down the lynch pool to e, Jimmmm, ash, raerae, Robz and probably Glooble. Of these, really don't see the reasoning behind ash, he's clearly a different man, as he said in...RMM51 IIRC? All the usual "ash!plan or you're scum" posts don't work now. Which helps his scum games, but still...

I do see one for raerae, just because she's not doing much, and I remember her doing a LOT more in M121, am I wrong? I don't think I am...but this could very well be null, I don't know...

No one likes the Space wagon. I blame myself there, really, my interactions provided a shield around them. I'll accept this as a consequence of my mistakes...

Mcmc making a LOT of sense, he's so town, oh mcmc, you're my new idol, please teach me how to be so pro-town...after the game, of course.

Does scum!ash put himself in a 1v1 vs raerae like this? How about town!ash?

Vote: Jimmmmmm untill the above is answered, and really because I don't like the e votes.

Can everyone please start saying L-something at 7+ votes? No vote count will make the end of day hard to track.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on March 01, 2019, 10:45:23 am
Ashersky will do anything, as town or scum, if they think it will help them win.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on March 01, 2019, 10:46:18 am
And you can trust everything that ashersky posts theory-wise will benefit town whether Ash is town or scum
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on March 01, 2019, 10:47:06 am
Not a huge fan of lynching ashersky or raerae today though
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: raerae on March 01, 2019, 10:47:24 am
raerae: upon reread actually kinda scummy. Very "its okay everyone" style posts. The only antagonism she puts out is toward shraeye which is very safe since its easily covered by their relationship. I changed my mind shes back on the list.

Can you give an example of this?  I don't remember passing out warm fuzzies this game.

Oo so hard on mobile, I promise Iíll get to this at some point Iíve got to do some work now. I think it was during the mix/wcd thing though scum would have wanted that to get bigger so it canít have just been that.

Broski, I very specifically did NOT comment on that interaction.  I'm in Didds' corner but I couldn't add anything that wouldn't get me kicked off the forum to that so I shutdown and walked away.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on March 01, 2019, 10:48:45 am
I would be okay with lynching Jimmm, but don't want to leave the 2.7 wagon, since it's more of a thing.

Also, this is a standard "I want to help town lynch"  post from scum!Robz, not convincing me to move my vote
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 01, 2019, 10:49:52 am
raerae: upon reread actually kinda scummy. Very "its okay everyone" style posts. The only antagonism she puts out is toward shraeye which is very safe since its easily covered by their relationship. I changed my mind shes back on the list.

Can you give an example of this?  I don't remember passing out warm fuzzies this game.

Oo so hard on mobile, I promise Iíll get to this at some point Iíve got to do some work now. I think it was during the mix/wcd thing though scum would have wanted that to get bigger so it canít have just been that.

Broski, I very specifically did NOT comment on that interaction.  I'm in Didds' corner but I couldn't add anything that wouldn't get me kicked off the forum to that so I shutdown and walked away.

Okay okay Iíll pull the quotes, would you get a shuffleit username so I can search your posts easier tanks
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on March 01, 2019, 10:51:05 am
That vote count should be 1.6, right?

Idk what youíre talking about, itís always said 1.6.  ;)
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: raerae on March 01, 2019, 10:53:03 am
raerae: upon reread actually kinda scummy. Very "its okay everyone" style posts. The only antagonism she puts out is toward shraeye which is very safe since its easily covered by their relationship. I changed my mind shes back on the list.

Can you give an example of this?  I don't remember passing out warm fuzzies this game.

Oo so hard on mobile, I promise Iíll get to this at some point Iíve got to do some work now. I think it was during the mix/wcd thing though scum would have wanted that to get bigger so it canít have just been that.

Broski, I very specifically did NOT comment on that interaction.  I'm in Didds' corner but I couldn't add anything that wouldn't get me kicked off the forum to that so I shutdown and walked away.

Okay okay Iíll pull the quotes, would you get a shuffleit username so I can search your posts easier tanks

Fine, it makes me feel like a fraud though since I'm not actually on there. 
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: shraeye on March 01, 2019, 10:55:24 am
Shraeye proposing a no-lynch is scummy because it lets him do something that isnít outright alignment indicative. Itís sort of a catch-22 I get that but Iím of the opinion he should get scum points for it (because it technically doesnít give him scum points but also isnít helpful).

Itís similar to players that are overly reliant on setup analysis/night actions. I think space is a good example of someone who was reliant on that, then hey started getting scum read for being passive early on and then their meta changed slightly to be more pro-town.

I've got two issues with this. 
First, it feels like you're saying all my activity is because of this NAI issue I've brought up.  Go back, count my no-lynch posts; I dare you.
Second, are you prepared to give scumreads to everyone talking setup?  Enjoy that 40 person scumteam.

Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 01, 2019, 10:57:01 am
Iíve played like 10 games on iso, 10 games on goku, and zero on shuffleit. Iím here for the mafia, if it confuses people thatís on them and maybe they should heck out the forum games section
:)


On to the warm fuzzies, you are correct none of them are warm fuzzies so ďitís okay everyoneĒ wasnít quite right. But your first 25 posts are all either very very subtle and small town reads other than your comments on shraeye, you are playing a very low impact game without actually being lurky, their are no individual posts in particular.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: shraeye on March 01, 2019, 10:57:27 am
raerae: upon reread actually kinda scummy. Very "its okay everyone" style posts. The only antagonism she puts out is toward shraeye which is very safe since its easily covered by their relationship. I changed my mind shes back on the list.

Can you give an example of this?  I don't remember passing out warm fuzzies this game.

Oo so hard on mobile, I promise Iíll get to this at some point Iíve got to do some work now. I think it was during the mix/wcd thing though scum would have wanted that to get bigger so it canít have just been that.
I know shraeyerae is everybody's favorite thing, but you are definitely remembering me and attributing it to her.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: raerae on March 01, 2019, 10:58:29 am
Iíve played like 10 games on iso, 10 games on goku, and zero on shuffleit. Iím here for the mafia, if it confuses people thatís on them and maybe they should heck out the forum games section
:)


On to the warm fuzzies, you are correct none of them are warm fuzzies so ďitís okay everyoneĒ wasnít quite right. But your first 25 posts are all either very very subtle and small town reads other than your comments on shraeye, you are playing a very low impact game without actually being lurky, their are no individual posts in particular.

Literally hadn't assigned townreads until today.  You can just admit you're wrong, nobody will blame you.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: shraeye on March 01, 2019, 10:59:04 am
Not a huge fan of lynching ashersky or raerae today though
But I want ash, no fair.  How about reconsider?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: shraeye on March 01, 2019, 11:00:09 am
Okay okay Iíll pull the quotes, would you get a shuffleit username so I can search your posts easier tanks
Use "posts: 72"
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 01, 2019, 11:01:16 am
Shraeye proposing a no-lynch is scummy because it lets him do something that isnít outright alignment indicative. Itís sort of a catch-22 I get that but Iím of the opinion he should get scum points for it (because it technically doesnít give him scum points but also isnít helpful).

Itís similar to players that are overly reliant on setup analysis/night actions. I think space is a good example of someone who was reliant on that, then hey started getting scum read for being passive early on and then their meta changed slightly to be more pro-town.

I've got two issues with this. 
First, it feels like you're saying all my activity is because of this NAI issue I've brought up.  Go back, count my no-lynch posts; I dare you.
Second, are you prepared to give scumreads to everyone talking setup?  Enjoy that 40 person scumteam.

Well this is awkard
Mcmc Post Count 1.0
[snip]
44 Shraeye: 47-3

I even said that I liked your recent posts, the only reason I brought up the no lynch thing a second time is because raerae asked for clarification. And yes I will assign small scum point to Everton who gives setup discussion that is unlikely to be relevant. Itís scummy because itís safe and nai.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 01, 2019, 11:03:00 am
Okay okay Iíll pull the quotes, would you get a shuffleit username so I can search your posts easier tanks
Use "posts: 72"

Yea but I always forget that and so I have to find one of her posts and check how many posts it is and itís a whole process. Donít get me started on 2.718IRRATINALE1737... like pick a name
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on March 01, 2019, 11:05:19 am
Broski, I very specifically did NOT comment on that interaction.  I'm in Didds' corner but I couldn't add anything that wouldn't get me kicked off the forum to that so I shutdown and walked away.

Preach. Seeking not to get kicked off is a good standard.

I would vote for Asher, but not raerae. I am less enthusiastic about e than I was before.

Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on March 01, 2019, 11:07:57 am
I know shraeyerae is everybody's favorite thing, but you are definitely remembering me and attributing it to her.

Ha! I have started calling you shra-I in my head to make it different than ray-ray
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on March 01, 2019, 11:09:54 am
Okay okay Iíll pull the quotes, would you get a shuffleit username so I can search your posts easier tanks
Use "posts: 72"

Yea but I always forget that and so I have to find one of her posts and check how many posts it is and itís a whole process. Donít get me started on 2.718IRRATINALE1737... like pick a name

just because I haven't gone and begged theory to change my username here to "irrationalE" - I was actually 3.1415..... originally on iso, then switched to 2.718.... because I thought e was cooler (then I created my f.ds account), then having a username with only numbers got annoying (there was an issue with some coding for gamelogs once upon a time and I figured I would make it easier and just avoid numbers), and I thought irrationalE was clever so I switched to that.

There, now you have the history of my username dating back to iso and how I did not imagine the username "irrationalE" until later in the process.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 01, 2019, 11:16:31 am
Iíve played like 10 games on iso, 10 games on goku, and zero on shuffleit. Iím here for the mafia, if it confuses people thatís on them and maybe they should heck out the forum games section
:)


On to the warm fuzzies, you are correct none of them are warm fuzzies so ďitís okay everyoneĒ wasnít quite right. But your first 25 posts are all either very very subtle and small town reads other than your comments on shraeye, you are playing a very low impact game without actually being lurky, their are no individual posts in particular.

Literally hadn't assigned townreads until today.  You can just admit you're wrong, nobody will blame you.

Fine you get your quote wall!!! If I get fired itís your fault....

Anyway, care to guess why I voted for faust?

You missed the fact that he unvoted Uncle, didn't you?

Now, serious talk: anyone who knows Robz's meta, does he analyze setups? Does he like to break setups? Is he usually good at theory talk in general?

So, uncle claimed...well that makes him unlynchable, so he might as well be the IC for this day, right?

Vote: raerae, I happen to like e's reason to townread shraeye, and your vote seems like a good way to not play RVS, since he's not dying today.

And why can't shraeye be our lunch today? He seems just as on the table as everybody else?
Not a town read but a very ďwhy canít he be our lynchĒ itís really open ended and non commital

I subbed in for Robz in the last game, and kept rereading the game. Not that Robz said a lot, but it gets in your head.

Gotcha!  For what it's worth, I have an inappropriate amount of trust for you because I look at your name and think, "Mods can't lie!"
Subtle statement of trust and general nothing post.

And no lynch D1 is basically the most absolute worst thing town could ever do D1

Time to mass claim.



Then we no lynch.

Come on everybody, letís do this.

Please use your ICness this day to do productive things instead of jokes please.

Vote places, question people, I don't know; go all out, you're not dying today, that's for sure.

Disagree, never stop joking. Sprinkle it with serious. Or do whatever you want that makes the game fun for you.
Some warm fuzzies being thrown out ďletís all joke sprinkle it with seriousĒ.(note I agree with this as a point itís just youíve posted lots of this nothingness)
No lynch is very bad, but I don't want to welcome shraeye back with a day 1 lynch. Same for raerae.

Naw, let's kill him, I just want to know why first.


Bahaha

Priorities, amirite?

If true crime shows have taught me nothing else it's the importance of a good alibi or at least a good self-defense story!

@jimmmmmm, it's because he made a dad joke, isn't it? I'll take that as a yes and I fully support it.

But, in all seriousness, he's basically done nothing other than call for a no lynch and question MiX's ridiculousness so what's your reason?
Slight defending of shraeye by saying he hasnít done much.

Like if a playerís general style makes them hard to read, that player is a liability as town and especially dangerous as scum. Sounds like a great day 1 lynch to me.

I'd generally agree but that got MiX killed D1 last game. I'm interested in letting MiX live one more day if only to see what he's like D2.
Another saying you want to let someone live.


Now befor you try to get specific and defend all of those posts individually, I donít think anything you are saying is outright scummy or wrong. I think when you see how many of hear lgbt hearted posts and posts slightly defending players it fits the narrative of a scum who is active and isnít making waves but is slightly buddying a lot of players. Itís brought to merit a day 1 scum read.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Uncleeurope on March 01, 2019, 11:21:11 am
Vote: LL

Just to see where this goes.

Iím not sold on raerae, but not opposed, there does seem to be a difference since last game, including a much more artificial anti shraye vibe. Like, going after people that think shraeye is town over aggressively analyzing shraeye... I dunno, just feels off.

Asher interests me, as does space.

And the trio of LL, Robz, Jimmmmm, are always interesting. LL being a new addition to that bucket of players since the other two are apparently consistent in play, but LL is joining for no reason. And his excuse is that people are hard to read. Come on, now, LL that never stopped you from making an LL-Bucket, tell me where I can find a scum in X-people. I need my daily intake of foreword slashes.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: raerae on March 01, 2019, 11:23:06 am
Robz, can't defend against that, I really haven't done much this game, it's big and intimidating and most of the conversation has been setup so I commented when I had something to say but was definitely content to sit back and wait until it progressed to something I can chime in on. Like today. This is the stuff I get and so I'm talking now.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: faust on March 01, 2019, 11:25:09 am
Okay, I've got a grand total of one townread (Uncle, because he laughed at a joke I made, he never laughed at any of the amazing jokes I made last game even though he was given ample opportunity, this is good enough for me) and no strong scumreads.  I am suspicious of e, MiX, Glooble for being on #teamnotshraeye, still seems like a weird stance to take for virtually no reason.  Basically I'm saying my vote's for sale, if there's a reasonable case out there I'll bite on it.
If you vote Jimmmmm then I promise I won't hammer you tomorrow!

Negotiations are open!  How about you don't even vote me tomorrow?
Hmmm... alright, you've got a deal. But it is off if you change your vote afterwards.

Can you look at ash real quicklike before we shake on it?  Generally what shraeye said and specifically his reason and vote on me.
Meh, I don't think the Ferengi plan thing makes ash scum (as scum I think he would think plans through more, not less) and his vote on you is fine. Not interested.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: shraeye on March 01, 2019, 11:25:55 am
Broski, I very specifically did NOT comment on that interaction.  I'm in Didds' corner but I couldn't add anything that wouldn't get me kicked off the forum to that so I shutdown and walked away.

Preach. Seeking not to get kicked off is a good standard.

I would vote for Asher, but not raerae. I am less enthusiastic about e than I was before.

Do it!!  #ashtoashes
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on March 01, 2019, 11:29:34 am
Vote: LL

LaLight! I forgot about them!

The world is collapsing: I agree with Uncle for once. He's right, LL's not being himself. But hold on, didn't this happen last time? And he was mason? That game is key for a lot of meta talk...

Vote: LaLight while I skim M121 to see what LL did.

PPE 2: raerae, time to vote Jimmmmmm, cmon, gotta take that deal, my vote's still there in spirit
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Uncleeurope on March 01, 2019, 11:32:05 am
What do you meeeean for once?

But last game he made a Faust Silver bucket IIRC.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on March 01, 2019, 11:36:27 am
I love all the people dancing around with the idea of voting Robz but not doing it.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on March 01, 2019, 11:39:48 am
@joth - will you be around for official vote counts leading up to the deadline?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 01, 2019, 11:40:43 am
I love all the people dancing around with the idea of voting Robz but not doing it.

I think itís because here is such little difference between him and jimm itís hard to pick one and they you start doubting why you are voting thinking of voting hemcincthe first place.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: raerae on March 01, 2019, 11:41:59 am
Vote: LL

LaLight! I forgot about them!

The world is collapsing: I agree with Uncle for once. He's right, LL's not being himself. But hold on, didn't this happen last time? And he was mason? That game is key for a lot of meta talk...

Vote: LaLight while I skim M121 to see what LL did.

PPE 2: raerae, time to vote Jimmmmmm, cmon, gotta take that deal, my vote's still there in spirit

Your vote isn't on jimmmmmm, why are you advocating his lunch and voting elsewhere. Why is a jimmmmmm vote for enough for me but not for you? Spirit votes aren't worth anything I'm this game.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: raerae on March 01, 2019, 11:44:40 am
Okay, I've got a grand total of one townread (Uncle, because he laughed at a joke I made, he never laughed at any of the amazing jokes I made last game even though he was given ample opportunity, this is good enough for me) and no strong scumreads.  I am suspicious of e, MiX, Glooble for being on #teamnotshraeye, still seems like a weird stance to take for virtually no reason.  Basically I'm saying my vote's for sale, if there's a reasonable case out there I'll bite on it.
If you vote Jimmmmm then I promise I won't hammer you tomorrow!

Negotiations are open!  How about you don't even vote me tomorrow?
Hmmm... alright, you've got a deal. But it is off if you change your vote afterwards.

Can you look at ash real quicklike before we shake on it?  Generally what shraeye said and specifically his reason and vote on me.
Meh, I don't think the Ferengi plan thing makes ash scum (as scum I think he would think plans through more, not less) and his vote on you is fine. Not interested.

Why do we have to disagree on everything?? I have to sit on this a minute.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on March 01, 2019, 11:45:59 am
I love all the people dancing around with the idea of voting Robz but not doing it.

I think itís because here is such little difference between him and jimm itís hard to pick one and they you start doubting why you are voting thinking of voting hemcincthe first place.

Yeah, ok. But like the LaLight votes feel as if they are people saying, "yeah, Robz is a good lynch....Look! LaLight! Let's try a New Thing here right at the deadline" (or approaching the deadline)
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Uncleeurope on March 01, 2019, 11:47:56 am
Several people have mentioned that they donít want Robz to die, so I am trying something different while personally still being okay with him dying.

Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: shraeye on March 01, 2019, 11:48:39 am
If you want to try something new, may I interest you in an ash-lynch??  It's new, it's exciting, all the cool kids are doing it. 

Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on March 01, 2019, 11:49:39 am
Vote: LL

LaLight! I forgot about them!

The world is collapsing: I agree with Uncle for once. He's right, LL's not being himself. But hold on, didn't this happen last time? And he was mason? That game is key for a lot of meta talk...

Vote: LaLight while I skim M121 to see what LL did.

PPE 2: raerae, time to vote Jimmmmmm, cmon, gotta take that deal, my vote's still there in spirit

Your vote isn't on jimmmmmm, why are you advocating his lunch and voting elsewhere. Why is a jimmmmmm vote for enough for me but not for you? Spirit votes aren't worth anything I'm this game.

Look (wo)man, my vote WAS on Jimmmmmmm and I still want him dead. I just forgot about LL and that means he's scummy, since a player with memorable things is...well, memorable. Just let me reread in peace, alright?  :P

PPE 1: from the no lynch guy, this sure seems off...
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on March 01, 2019, 11:50:00 am
If you want to try something new, may I interest you in an ash-lynch??  It's new, it's exciting, all the cool kids are doing it.

Nah, only new interesting lynches that I introduce are valid
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Uncleeurope on March 01, 2019, 11:50:45 am
Iím too hipster to like what the cool kids are doing.

Or something like that.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: faust on March 01, 2019, 11:51:49 am
If you want to try something new, may I interest you in an ash-lynch??  It's new, it's exciting, all the cool kids are doing it.
New? People have been lynching ash early since the dawn of time.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 01, 2019, 11:55:34 am
I love all the people dancing around with the idea of voting Robz but not doing it.

I think itís because here is such little difference between him and jimm itís hard to pick one and they you start doubting why you are voting thinking of voting hemcincthe first place.

Yeah, ok. But like the LaLight votes feel as if they are people saying, "yeah, Robz is a good lynch....Look! LaLight! Let's try a New Thing here right at the deadline" (or approaching the deadline)

I agree the lalight votes feel scummy but I have a strong townread on Europe and mix so Iím not lynching there just adjusting my reads
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on March 01, 2019, 11:56:28 am
If you want to try something new, may I interest you in an ash-lynch??  It's new, it's exciting, all the cool kids are doing it.
New? People have been lynching ash early since the dawn of time.

Since MXIII based on the records at least, so for 6 1/2 years or so.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: shraeye on March 01, 2019, 11:56:56 am
If you want to try something new, may I interest you in an ash-lynch??  It's new, it's exciting, all the cool kids are doing it.

Nah, only new interesting lynches that I introduce are valid
;)
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on March 01, 2019, 11:57:50 am
I love all the people dancing around with the idea of voting Robz but not doing it.

I think itís because here is such little difference between him and jimm itís hard to pick one and they you start doubting why you are voting thinking of voting hemcincthe first place.

Yeah, ok. But like the LaLight votes feel as if they are people saying, "yeah, Robz is a good lynch....Look! LaLight! Let's try a New Thing here right at the deadline" (or approaching the deadline)

I agree the lalight votes feel scummy but I have a strong townread on Europe and mix so Iím not lynching there just adjusting my reads

yeah, but they are only super scummy in light of a Robz flip.  I think actually successfully lynching someone like Robz on D1 of a 18 player game that needs 10 to lynch would be quite incredible, and we could learn plenty from the flip for days to come.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Uncleeurope on March 01, 2019, 12:02:05 pm
Well a LL flip doesnít look good for e, then.

All I am doing with my vote is attempting to parse why people are okay to vote for some people in Robz/Jimmm/LL but not others, as well as pointing out that LL doesnít normally belong in that bucket.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Uncleeurope on March 01, 2019, 12:02:29 pm
LL scum flip*
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on March 01, 2019, 12:52:22 pm
I would be okay with lynching Jimmm, but don't want to leave the 2.7 wagon, since it's more of a thing.

Robz is your ring on the 2.7 wagon totally a sheeping of me or is there more?

Also why okay with jimm?

Total sheep of you.

I haven't gotten any specific townie vibes from Jimmm, so that's good enough.

I don't want to lynch faust, ash, you, shraeye, raerae, or MiX, mostly for arbitrary reasons.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on March 01, 2019, 12:56:06 pm
@joth - will you be around for official vote counts leading up to the deadline?

Probably one before bed tonight if Iím not toasted and the. Iíll try to be on about 1.5 hours before deadline. And maybe no fun flavor.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on March 01, 2019, 12:56:33 pm
Haven't read everything in detail yet, but from a skim if the reasons against LL are just that he hasn't done much, I want to say that I think LL is very readable once he actually gets around to posting. He's been scum, what, 3 games in a row now? And correctly lynched each time.

And we've learned (or at least I've learned) that a couple things I used to think were towntells for him aren't.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on March 01, 2019, 12:56:37 pm
I love all the people dancing around with the idea of voting Robz but not doing it.

Same.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on March 01, 2019, 01:32:02 pm
are you prepared to give scumreads to everyone talking setup?  Enjoy that 40 person scumteam.
I've always wanted to be scum with Ash and faust.

Why do you say in like every third post that my reasoning on faust is awful?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on March 01, 2019, 01:45:47 pm
Vote: LL

Just to see where this goes.

Iím not sold on raerae, but not opposed, there does seem to be a difference since last game, including a much more artificial anti shraye vibe. Like, going after people that think shraeye is town over aggressively analyzing shraeye... I dunno, just feels off.

Asher interests me, as does space.

And the trio of LL, Robz, Jimmmmm, are always interesting. LL being a new addition to that bucket of players since the other two are apparently consistent in play, but LL is joining for no reason. And his excuse is that people are hard to read. Come on, now, LL that never stopped you from making an LL-Bucket, tell me where I can find a scum in X-people. I need my daily intake of foreword slashes.
UE moves his vote off Robz here and onto a new LL wagon, I noticed him doing this constantly last game around the ends of days as scum. Might not be anything but I want to note this.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on March 01, 2019, 01:47:11 pm
1. Jimmmmm is not participating which I can see him do as both alignments. Mostly I would keep him alive, he's a scary power late in the game if town.
2. UmbrageOfSnow - was active and cool, got a lot of townreads from different people and kind of disappeared?
3. LaLight - me, struggling with going here.
4. DatSwan - Did he do anything?
5. mcmcsalot - Somewhat here, not really noticeable, but I liked that he voted for e, because I felt like me and mcmc got the same feeling
6. Glooble - can't read yet
7. WestCoastDidds - she's still awesome. We're yet to see scum!Didds, but for now I feel like it's good old town!her.
8. SpaceAnemone - Struggling as much as I am, I don't really want to lycnh them, see Jimmmmm
9. Shraeye - I get the different feeling from when we were masons. Could definitely vote there
10. MiX - Don't want to lynch cause I still feel guilt over the last game but at one point, sure. Also, yeah, aggression made me quit Mafia for some time once and also broke two games I was in. It isn't fun.
11. faust - let's see D2
12. ashersky - His activity level changed as we saw in Radch, I can't read him yet. For now feel townie
13. 2.71828..... - strong feeling of actilurking. I don't know, it's like I am reading his posts and then I can't remember what they were about...
14. Robz888 - always up for Robz lynch, you know
15. Awaclus - Is he in this game?
16. Uncleeurope - I am scared of him as of now. But rather would not lynch
17. raerae - don't remember anything from them here
18. chickenwarlord - meh?

Done rereading, everyone look at this post. Now tell me LaLight's reads. Look, I'll help by trying to do the same:

Towny: mcmc(?), Didds, ash, Uncle(?)

Scummy: UoS(?), e

That's it. It's a readlist where there are only 6 non null reads. This whole post is a nothingnburger, it says a bunch of true things but nothing definite, nothing binding...this is in a clear contrast to M121 LL, where he was voting with reasons and doing a lot of scumhunting (yes, we scum read him then, but that's because he was much less active than before and he explained why that was the case. Besides he did flip town). This is coupled with a lot of non!LL things, like not buddying everyone and not being super positive all the time: it might be null, but it's clearly different from town!LL. The rest of his posts are pretty empty as well, except his e vote: I highly doubt they're one scum team, but that doesn't matter here.

And that's it, really, this is the best case I've seen so far on anyone ever in both of my games. If anyone wants to poke holes at it, feel free to, here to learn.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on March 01, 2019, 01:53:57 pm
I love all the people dancing around with the idea of voting Robz but not doing it.

I think itís because here is such little difference between him and jimm itís hard to pick one and they you start doubting why you are voting thinking of voting hemcincthe first place.

Yeah, ok. But like the LaLight votes feel as if they are people saying, "yeah, Robz is a good lynch....Look! LaLight! Let's try a New Thing here right at the deadline" (or approaching the deadline)

How many people do you think are scumbuddies with Robz? Do you seriously expect to catch 2+ scum in an 18 player game in D1? At least admit that some of those were made by town.

Haven't read everything in detail yet, but from a skim if the reasons against LL are just that he hasn't done much, I want to say that I think LL is very readable once he actually gets around to posting. He's been scum, what, 3 games in a row now? And correctly lynched each time.

And we've learned (or at least I've learned) that a couple things I used to think were towntells for him aren't.

Did you forget about the game you modded? He was town there...and this has been said before.


Okay, now that's done, I can say who I'll actually support as lynches: LL, Jimmmmmmm, Space and Glooble, in that order. ash and raerae too if I somehow hear really really good cases but I doubt it. Right now I think LL is a pretty sweet lynch, so yeah, go there. Please read my case on him!
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: shraeye on March 01, 2019, 01:56:45 pm
I'm not sure Umbrage is on LaLight's scummy list, but I think I am.

LaLight's reads are a whole lot of nothing; MiX makes a good point.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on March 01, 2019, 01:57:32 pm
Did you forget about the game you modded? He was town there...and this has been said before.

Actually I did. He died so early and to be fair he had a private QT, which is pretty scummy!

Why the need to say "this has been said before?"
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Uncleeurope on March 01, 2019, 01:58:17 pm
Vote: LL

Just to see where this goes.

Iím not sold on raerae, but not opposed, there does seem to be a difference since last game, including a much more artificial anti shraye vibe. Like, going after people that think shraeye is town over aggressively analyzing shraeye... I dunno, just feels off.

Asher interests me, as does space.

And the trio of LL, Robz, Jimmmmm, are always interesting. LL being a new addition to that bucket of players since the other two are apparently consistent in play, but LL is joining for no reason. And his excuse is that people are hard to read. Come on, now, LL that never stopped you from making an LL-Bucket, tell me where I can find a scum in X-people. I need my daily intake of foreword slashes.
UE moves his vote off Robz here and onto a new LL wagon, I noticed him doing this constantly last game around the ends of days as scum. Might not be anything but I want to note this.

I did it in my previous games too, I always move my vote around.

Vote: Snow

See?



Vote: LL
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on March 01, 2019, 01:59:07 pm
Yeah, I actually am kind of liking that case and disliking LL's posts as I reread. Scum is stressful.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: shraeye on March 01, 2019, 02:00:07 pm

Why do you say in like every third post that my reasoning on faust is awful?
It was a super stretch of an analysis on what felt like a very-unimportant point, which was that faust revealed his thought process regarding Dukat.
The fact that you seem to have insta-thought faust was scum based on this nothingness from the first 24 hrs, AND THEN haven't really updated your read on him at all, stinks like a stinker.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on March 01, 2019, 02:00:42 pm
It's not about moving your vote around, it's about moving pressure off people you don't really want to lynch toward the end of the day.

And it's not really for you, it's for people to notice late game if, for example, Robz flips scum and I'm dead.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on March 01, 2019, 02:01:23 pm
Did you forget about the game you modded? He was town there...and this has been said before.

Actually I did. He died so early and to be fair he had a private QT, which is pretty scummy!

Why the need to say "this has been said before?"

Because you should've known this extra piece of information from this game as well? And because I found forgetting that to be weird. Do you want me to quote it? I'm 100% sure it happened.

PPE 1: Yay I made a good case! But Uncle's the last person that I want to agree with me, he's already on that wagon...
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on March 01, 2019, 02:03:14 pm
It didn't feel super-unimportant, it felt very un-faust. And it's a misrep to say that it's because he revealed his thought process, it's about what his thought process was.

Reads aren't less valid because they happen in the first 24 hours. And you've said a lot more about my read being bad than I said about it in the first place, you keep repeating this like you're trying to discredit it.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on March 01, 2019, 02:04:03 pm
PPE 1: Yay I made a good case! But Uncle's the last person that I want to agree with me, he's already on that wagon...

That wasn't PPE 1, and it also wasn't Uncle, it was UoS, you both start with U...then I change that sentence to:

Yay, I made a good case!

PPE 5
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on March 01, 2019, 02:04:55 pm
Because you should've known this extra piece of information from this game as well? And because I found forgetting that to be weird. Do you want me to quote it? I'm 100% sure it happened.

So it's weirder for me not to remember something that was said in thread than something from a game I modded?

Why would you quote it, what would that accomplish? Do you think I'm denying that someone said LaLight was a mason in my game? Do you think I'm denying it happened?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on March 01, 2019, 02:06:01 pm
I'd say Robbz is probably my #1 skumread at the moment.

Why?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on March 01, 2019, 02:06:46 pm
Because you should've known this extra piece of information from this game as well? And because I found forgetting that to be weird. Do you want me to quote it? I'm 100% sure it happened.

So it's weirder for me not to remember something that was said in thread than something from a game I modded?

Why would you quote it, what would that accomplish? Do you think I'm denying that someone said LaLight was a mason in my game? Do you think I'm denying it happened?

I found your question odd. Not really sure how to answer it...so I just said a bunch of truths. No, there's no point on quoting it, I just didn't understand why you asked that...
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on March 01, 2019, 02:08:06 pm
Because it seemed weird to me for you to say "this has been said before" and I want to get into your head about why you said it.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on March 01, 2019, 02:08:52 pm
I am in a workshop, and have to pay attention and try not to be a terrible student.

I will go back to vote: LL because it seems like more people are feeling it and I moved off him originally in the push toward consolidation instigated by faust yesterday.

I think that only people I am willing to move to, at this point, are Ashes or Robz. 

I will be around later this evening, and for about an hour before deadline in the morning (for me).
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: shraeye on March 01, 2019, 02:11:34 pm
It didn't feel super-unimportant, it felt very un-faust. And it's a misrep to say that it's because he revealed his thought process, it's about what his thought process was.

Reads aren't less valid because they happen in the first 24 hours. And you've said a lot more about my read being bad than I said about it in the first place, you keep repeating this like you're trying to discredit it.
I *am* trying to discredit it, isn't that obvious? Scum want to make these baseless spread-suspicion cases.  So I'm saying it's a baseless case, you seemed chuffed to pieces that you made it and played a game with it, that feels like the sort of thing scum would be up to.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Uncleeurope on March 01, 2019, 02:14:02 pm
It's not about moving your vote around, it's about moving pressure off people you don't really want to lynch toward the end of the day.

And it's not really for you, it's for people to notice late game if, for example, Robz flips scum and I'm dead.

But I didnít do that either, I moved off of people I wanted to lynch to other people I wanted to lynch. Sometimes I move from someone I wanted to lynch to people I didnít. I was even on a partner at the end of day one.

I donít like just chilling on a person forever without feeling out the opinions about other people.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on March 01, 2019, 02:15:41 pm
So who has talked about voting Robz but hasn't voted there?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on March 01, 2019, 02:18:33 pm
It didn't feel super-unimportant, it felt very un-faust. And it's a misrep to say that it's because he revealed his thought process, it's about what his thought process was.

Reads aren't less valid because they happen in the first 24 hours. And you've said a lot more about my read being bad than I said about it in the first place, you keep repeating this like you're trying to discredit it.
I *am* trying to discredit it, isn't that obvious? Scum want to make these baseless spread-suspicion cases.  So I'm saying it's a baseless case, you seemed chuffed to pieces that you made it and played a game with it, that feels like the sort of thing scum would be up to.

"Chuffed" is maybe the best word of all time, I can't be mad at you. But again with the rhetoric.

But why so much focus on it, it's not a case I was driving during most of the time you kept talking about it, and I know we're never going to lynch faust on Day 1 but it will be potentially interesting to see how people reacted to me. Which is frustrating because I got so little reaction.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on March 01, 2019, 02:22:25 pm
The Jimmmmmmmmmmmmmm wagon seems dumb, and I'm only really convinced Awaclus is reading the game of the people on it. Seems very lazy.

I think raerae is town, a lot of people jumped in and sort of fanned the flames with this civility argument and she ducked out until it was over with just voicing a bit of support. Townreading UE over laughing at her joke, and her pointing out MiX's calling for her to vote Jimmmm while moving his vote elsewhere. Also, animals are better than humans.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on March 01, 2019, 02:23:34 pm
Vote Count 1.7


faust (1): UmbrageOfSnow
2.71828..... (3): LaLight, Robz888, Awaclus
shraeye (1): Jimmmmm
MiX (1): SpaceAnemone
chickenwarlord (1): DatSwan
Jimmmmm (2): Glooble, faust
Awaclus (1): ashersky
Robz888 (1): 2.71828.....
ashersky (2): shraeye, raerae
raerae (2): ashersky, mcmcsalot
LaLight (3): Uncleeurope, MiX, WestCoastDidds

No Lynch (1): chickenwarlord

With 18 alive, it takes 10 to lynch most players. Day 1 ends at 8 a.m. forum time on Saturday, March 2.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on March 01, 2019, 02:26:00 pm
I was just preparing my own VC because I thought you weren't around, jerk.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Uncleeurope on March 01, 2019, 02:26:25 pm
The Jimmmmmmmmmmmmmm wagon seems dumb, and I'm only really convinced Awaclus is reading the game of the people on it. Seems very lazy.

I think raerae is town, a lot of people jumped in and sort of fanned the flames with this civility argument and she ducked out until it was over with just voicing a bit of support. Townreading UE over laughing at her joke, and her pointing out MiX's calling for her to vote Jimmmm while moving his vote elsewhere. Also, animals are better than humans.

Okay, buddy, out with it, who would you kill, because it seems you are providing more defenses than offenses here.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: raerae on March 01, 2019, 02:26:32 pm
I'm not sure Umbrage is on LaLight's scummy list, but I think I am.

LaLight's reads are a whole lot of nothing; MiX makes a good point.

How is LL having a bunch of nulls different from anybody else having a bunch?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on March 01, 2019, 02:27:21 pm
That's what I'm working out... Eddie (it's so hard for me to call you that, but it seems somehow appropriate here?)
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on March 01, 2019, 02:28:59 pm
At this point I'm going to put one of LL or e to... L-6. Debating which one, I don't have a strong gut feeling either way right now.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Uncleeurope on March 01, 2019, 02:30:34 pm
That's what I'm working out... Eddie (it's so hard for me to call you that, but it seems somehow appropriate here?)

Imagine how I feel.

I have spent so long looking through long posts for ďUEĒ or ďUncleĒ that it makes it harder for me to know when people are talking to me, I will get the hang of it, eventually.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on March 01, 2019, 02:31:37 pm
That's what I'm working out... Eddie (it's so hard for me to call you that, but it seems somehow appropriate here?)

I told Debatepro the history of Eddie's name last night. He thought it was somewhat funny and quite charming...or maybe that is just the way I tell it.  He is the Uncle of Europe! 
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on March 01, 2019, 02:31:44 pm
edventually?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Uncleeurope on March 01, 2019, 02:32:57 pm
edventually?

Stop.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on March 01, 2019, 02:34:28 pm
NEVER

also

Vote: LaLight

L-6
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: shraeye on March 01, 2019, 02:37:10 pm
I'm not sure Umbrage is on LaLight's scummy list, but I think I am.

LaLight's reads are a whole lot of nothing; MiX makes a good point.

How is LL having a bunch of nulls different from anybody else having a bunch?

It's the "why bother writing it?" aspect.  That and it seemed to be written in a way that sounded like a reads list.  The fact that it took me a second read to see how fluff it was raises my suspicion.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: shraeye on March 01, 2019, 02:44:46 pm
vote: LaLight
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on March 01, 2019, 02:48:26 pm
I'm not sure Umbrage is on LaLight's scummy list, but I think I am.

LaLight's reads are a whole lot of nothing; MiX makes a good point.

How is LL having a bunch of nulls different from anybody else having a bunch?

It's the "why bother writing it?" aspect.  That and it seemed to be written in a way that sounded like a reads list.  The fact that it took me a second read to see how fluff it was raises my suspicion.

This. This sums up my case (and the lack of positivity I've known to love from LL).

NEVER

also

Vote: LaLight

L-6

Only 4 votes? Come on, we can do better!

@faust, you said Jimmmmm or LL, right? Well, LL has a better case, vote here.

@chicken, we need you to put a vote down...anywhere. Maybe here's the place for it?

@Robz, the faster you vote, the faster the day ends! You can't beat these odds.

@shraeye, are you on the wagon yet? Don't be shy, come on...look, I promise I'll dismantle whatever case you have on your current vote, or at least explaim why LL's more scummy.

@raerae, LL doesn't just have a lot of nulls...he has virtually no scumreads. Just e and technically UoS. And his "read list" isn't a read list at all! At least I tried to state (most of) my scumreads...

@e, I like your thought experiment with Robz, but let's be honest here, has he REALLY done anything scummy? No! Right? Did I miss anything?

There, if we all vote, together we can bring down the top scumread! Ah, almost forgot...

@LL, if you're Loved, please selfhammer like you did in your last scum game. Thanks in advance.

PPE 1: L-5! Oh boy!
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on March 01, 2019, 02:51:09 pm
I do not think LaLight is scum
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on March 01, 2019, 02:52:01 pm
I do not think LaLight is scum

What's the case on Robz? Lurking? What else?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on March 01, 2019, 02:53:57 pm
I am more interested in e's town case on LL.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Uncleeurope on March 01, 2019, 02:54:26 pm
I am more interested in e's town case on LL.

What this gentleman said.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: shraeye on March 01, 2019, 02:58:01 pm
I do not think LaLight is scum
congrats.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on March 01, 2019, 02:58:54 pm
I am more interested in e's town case on LL.

What this gentleman said.

First things first...if we are to lynch LaLight and actually getting a scum flip, we need to become one. This means uniting in reads, which here means dismantling e's scumread on Robz, or at least put it to null where it belongs...
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on March 01, 2019, 03:03:02 pm
I am more interested in e's town case on LL.

What this gentleman said.

First things first...if we are to lynch LaLight and actually getting a scum flip, we need to become one. This means uniting in reads, which here means dismantling e's scumread on Robz, or at least put it to null where it belongs...

you are that confident LaLight is scum?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on March 01, 2019, 03:03:28 pm
I suppose I should reread LaLight.  I just am not getting scum vibes from them.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: raerae on March 01, 2019, 03:03:41 pm
@MiX, I sold my vote to the highest bidder because I don't have scumreads. That explanation holds no weight with me, try again.



Actually, scratch that, don't try with me, telling me what to do and where to put my vote generally just ensures I'm not going to do that. I don't like your case, shraeye's explanation made more sense even if that's what you were trying to convey. I need to review a bit.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on March 01, 2019, 03:03:49 pm
That doesn't follow. Town can converge on a good wagon for disparate reasons. Why do you care what people think of robz if they aren't voting him? Do you think shraeye or I should get off the wagon? We disagree with each other.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on March 01, 2019, 03:04:37 pm
Put another way, MiX, why do you care?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: shraeye on March 01, 2019, 03:05:13 pm
That doesn't follow. Town can converge on a good wagon for disparate reasons. Why do you care what people think of robz if they aren't voting him? Do you think shraeye or I should get off the wagon? We disagree with each other.
unvote
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: shraeye on March 01, 2019, 03:05:27 pm
Nah, just joking.

vote: LaLight
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Uncleeurope on March 01, 2019, 03:05:59 pm
I am more interested in e's town case on LL.

What this gentleman said.

First things first...if we are to lynch LaLight and actually getting a scum flip, we need to become one. This means uniting in reads, which here means dismantling e's scumread on Robz, or at least put it to null where it belongs...

We donít have to eliminate all scumreads but one to vote from someone, e can find people scummy and vote for other scummy people. I donít need to know why e finds Robz scummy if they will vote for LL.

I just want to know why LL is towny so I can move my vote as needed.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on March 01, 2019, 03:07:53 pm
I am more interested in e's town case on LL.

What this gentleman said.

First things first...if we are to lynch LaLight and actually getting a scum flip, we need to become one. This means uniting in reads, which here means dismantling e's scumread on Robz, or at least put it to null where it belongs...

you are that confident LaLight is scum?

No, but the only way LL flips scum is if we all stand together. Otherwise scum will say "Naaaaah let's no lynch, that's fun", shraeye then moves there and suddently we lose the wagon.

That doesn't follow. Town can converge on a good wagon for disparate reasons. Why do you care what people think of robz if they aren't voting him? Do you think shraeye or I should get off the wagon? We disagree with each other.

Put another way, MiX, why do you care?

Is this another one of your cryptic questions? If I want LL to flip, I want e to move here; I believe the best way to do so is to dismantle his scumread on Robz first, then he'll accept other options. Maybe I'm wrong? I think doing things by steps is easier.

I am more interested in e's town case on LL.

What this gentleman said.

First things first...if we are to lynch LaLight and actually getting a scum flip, we need to become one. This means uniting in reads, which here means dismantling e's scumread on Robz, or at least put it to null where it belongs...

We donít have to eliminate all scumreads but one to vote from someone, e can find people scummy and vote for other scummy people. I donít need to know why e finds Robz scummy if they will vote for LL.

I just want to know why LL is towny so I can move my vote as needed.

Yes, but I want him to find LL scummier than Robz, so he votes here. Kinda sounds like manipulation when I say it outloud, but it's a relative thing: the more e thinks Robz is scum, the less he would vote for LL, right?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Uncleeurope on March 01, 2019, 03:10:26 pm
Not if Robz is scum.

Not necessarily anyway.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on March 01, 2019, 03:12:55 pm
I will literally vote for anyone as deadline approaches to get a lynch through
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on March 01, 2019, 03:25:01 pm
I'm approximately 70 posts behind in terms of reading, and I'm at a work party tonight. To avoid being completely useless, here's the fastest thing I can do:

No interest in lynching (townreads, people I think are not good D1 lynches, newbie)
3. LaLight
7. WestCoastDidds
8. SpaceAnemone
9. Shraeye
11. faust
12. ashersky
17. raerae
18. chickenwarlord

Little interest in lynching (feeling meh on, but happy about the fact they're posting stuff)
5. mcmcsalot
2. UmbrageOfSnow

Happy to go along with a lynch/have no opinion on (scumreads up to null people I don't have strong feelings about)
1. Jimmmmm
4. DatSwan
6. Glooble
10. MiX
13. 2.71828.....
14. Robz888
15. Awaclus
16. Uncleeurope

Things I will try to do before deadline:
1) Re-read everyone on the bottom list there.
2) Get the vote counter set up so I can try to post useful vote counts. The deadline is 1pm my time, which is totally civilised for me, so I should be here from 2-3 hours beforehand.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: raerae on March 01, 2019, 03:28:21 pm
@faust, do you have anything else on jimmmmmm other than the claim question/reason you originally voted?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on March 01, 2019, 03:44:32 pm
I will literally vote for anyone as deadline approaches to get a lynch through

same, although scum is preferable (duh)
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Glooble on March 01, 2019, 03:46:24 pm
Hi, so I fully admit I skimmed- lots of content since this morning and I donít have a lot of time. I like MiXís case on LaLight. I think itís similar to the Jimmmmm wagon (not a lot of content and what there is fees manufactured for the sake of making content.) Since it seems to have a lot more traction And Im not going to have time to properly catch up before the deadline, Iím happy to move my vote to LaLight.

vote: LaLight

Sorry for disappearing for the final day of the day, but it really couldnít be helped.

I will be in a few hours before the deadline (provided we donít lynch before then.) If Iím on again before that, Iíll probab be three sheets to the wind.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Uncleeurope on March 01, 2019, 03:52:48 pm
I disagree with a decent amount of Spaceís list there. Donít know what that means, but I am interested in what changes (if anything) after 70 pages of reading.

I would probably prefer people catch up before worrying about votes, but that might just be me.

Also it would be bad to lynch me, probably.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on March 01, 2019, 03:53:26 pm
This is probably right...

Vote count 1. Didds

2.71828..... (3): LaLight, Robz888, Awaclus
shraeye (1): Jimmmmm
MiX (1): SpaceAnemone
chickenwarlord (1): DatSwan
Jimmmmm (1): faust
Awaclus (1): ashersky
Robz888 (1): 2.71828.....
ashersky (1): raerae
raerae (2): ashersky, mcmcsalot
LaLight (6): Uncleeurope, MiX, WestCoastDidds, Umbrage, Shraeye, Glooble

No Lynch (1): chickenwarlord
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: faust on March 01, 2019, 04:17:11 pm
@faust, do you have anything else on jimmmmmm other than the claim question/reason you originally voted?
I did not like the waz he responded to the post by basically saying "look other people do it too" and implicitly accusing me of having ulterior motives without voting for me.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Uncleeurope on March 01, 2019, 04:22:33 pm
@faust, do you have anything else on jimmmmmm other than the claim question/reason you originally voted?
I did not like the waz he responded to the post by basically saying "look other people do it too" and implicitly accusing me of having ulterior motives without voting for me.

Yeah, I noticed that, too. His defense was super weak.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: faust on March 01, 2019, 04:22:37 pm
The Jimmmmmmmmmmmmmm wagon seems dumb, and I'm only really convinced Awaclus is reading the game of the people on it. Seems very lazy.
You don't think I'm reading the game? Was Awaclus ever voting for Jimmmmm? I am very confused.

Also the LaLight wagon is lazier than Jimmmmm. And LaLight is not around on the weekends, so it's likely that he won't even be able to address it.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: faust on March 01, 2019, 04:27:11 pm
We should at least have some sort of counterwagon if at all possible. The many single votes don't help (yes I know, I'm one of them, but I don't want to go to e and that's like the only other option right now).
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on March 01, 2019, 04:30:12 pm
We should at least have some sort of counterwagon if at all possible. The many single votes don't help (yes I know, I'm one of them, but I don't want to go to e and that's like the only other option right now).

Robz is an option
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on March 01, 2019, 04:32:37 pm
The Jimmmmmmmmmmmmmm wagon seems dumb, and I'm only really convinced Awaclus is reading the game of the people on it. Seems very lazy.
You don't think I'm reading the game? Was Awaclus ever voting for Jimmmmm? I am very confused.

Also the LaLight wagon is lazier than Jimmmmm. And LaLight is not around on the weekends, so it's likely that he won't even be able to address it.

Ah, you're right...damn, I forgot about weekend thing. But why is it lazy? It has the best case of everyone around here...unless the Jimmmm case is better? I don't think it is...

I would swap to Jimmmmm if necessary but I think we need EVERYONE on LL, that's really the only way this is happening.

PPE 2?; I guess also Robz? I don't get the Robz part...
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on March 01, 2019, 04:33:20 pm
We should at least have some sort of counterwagon if at all possible. The many single votes don't help (yes I know, I'm one of them, but I don't want to go to e and that's like the only other option right now).

Agree... and I am concerned that lots of the single vote folks are not generally around or have been active.

I just saw that there is a mistake in the VC, Ashersky is listed twice.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on March 01, 2019, 04:37:43 pm
What we need is the single voters to consolidate....not the LL people to just switch, is that right?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on March 01, 2019, 04:43:10 pm
What we need is the single voters to consolidate....not the LL people to just switch, is that right?

both need to happen actually
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on March 01, 2019, 04:48:49 pm
Why are we moving away from LL? How is Jimmmmmm or Robz a better lynch? I don't get it.

Can someone explain?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Uncleeurope on March 01, 2019, 04:51:44 pm
I could Vote: Jimmm if that helps. I would prefer LL to die but I would prefer second place to also be someone I am fine with killing, and Jimmm is definitely one of those people.

Also, what makes the LL wagon lazy?

Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: raerae on March 01, 2019, 04:54:58 pm
@faust, do you have anything else on jimmmmmm other than the claim question/reason you originally voted?
I did not like the waz he responded to the post by basically saying "look other people do it too" and implicitly accusing me of having ulterior motives without voting for me.

Sold.

Vote: Jimmmmmm

The Jimmmmmmmmmmmmmm wagon seems dumb, and I'm only really convinced Awaclus is reading the game of the people on it. Seems very lazy.
You don't think I'm reading the game? Was Awaclus ever voting for Jimmmmm? I am very confused.

Also the LaLight wagon is lazier than Jimmmmm. And LaLight is not around on the weekends, so it's likely that he won't even be able to address it.

Ah, you're right...damn, I forgot about weekend thing. But why is it lazy? It has the best case of everyone around here...unless the Jimmmm case is better? I don't think it is...

I would swap to Jimmmmm if necessary but I think we need EVERYONE on LL, that's really the only way this is happening.

PPE 2?; I guess also Robz? I don't get the Robz part...

"Best" is subjective, remember that.  Is there anybody you WON'T vote for?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Uncleeurope on March 01, 2019, 04:56:16 pm
The Jimmmmmmmmmmmmmm wagon seems dumb, and I'm only really convinced Awaclus is reading the game of the people on it. Seems very lazy.
You don't think I'm reading the game? Was Awaclus ever voting for Jimmmmm? I am very confused.

Also the LaLight wagon is lazier than Jimmmmm. And LaLight is not around on the weekends, so it's likely that he won't even be able to address it.

To make my previous post have context, why does the LL wagon not make sense to you? I was under the assumption that you could just as easily be voting LL?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on March 01, 2019, 05:00:12 pm
The Jimmmmmmmmmmmmmm wagon seems dumb, and I'm only really convinced Awaclus is reading the game of the people on it. Seems very lazy.
You don't think I'm reading the game? Was Awaclus ever voting for Jimmmmm? I am very confused.

Also the LaLight wagon is lazier than Jimmmmm. And LaLight is not around on the weekends, so it's likely that he won't even be able to address it.

Ah, you're right...damn, I forgot about weekend thing. But why is it lazy? It has the best case of everyone around here...unless the Jimmmm case is better? I don't think it is...

I would swap to Jimmmmm if necessary but I think we need EVERYONE on LL, that's really the only way this is happening.

PPE 2?; I guess also Robz? I don't get the Robz part...

"Best" is subjective, remember that.  Is there anybody you WON'T vote for?

Yes: everyone that isn't on my read list. So I'll vote for LL, Jimmmmmm, Robz, e in that order...ah and Space. And then you, if people really want to... That's all. It's a lot of people, isn't it? But I prefer a flip to nothing here, at least we should try...
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on March 01, 2019, 06:14:08 pm
So, e, did you ever get around to rereading LaLight?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on March 01, 2019, 06:16:28 pm
You don't think I'm reading the game? Was Awaclus ever voting for Jimmmmm? I am very confused.

Also the LaLight wagon is lazier than Jimmmmm. And LaLight is not around on the weekends, so it's likely that he won't even be able to address it.

I derped about who was on what wagons. I don't like e's wagon. The Jimmmm wagon is absolutely lazier than the LaLight wagon and there's really not much for him to address. I'd lynch through most claims other than Jake I think.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on March 01, 2019, 06:16:58 pm
But I know you're reading the game, faust, and didn't mean to imply otherwise.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on March 01, 2019, 06:17:57 pm
So, e, did you ever get around to rereading LaLight?

Not yet. I will after this game of Dominion that I am playing
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on March 01, 2019, 06:21:52 pm
So, e, did you ever get around to rereading LaLight?

Not yet. I will after this game of Dominion that I am playing

Reading now
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on March 01, 2019, 06:26:10 pm
vote: LL
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on March 01, 2019, 06:29:56 pm
vote: LL

What do you have to say now that there's a bunch of people trying to lynch you? Can you explain how you've been pro-town D1, for example?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on March 01, 2019, 06:32:47 pm
So, LaLight has not been very active at all.  That means

1) They are scum and just uncomfortable and slightly meh at being scum so many times recently
2) They are town and just busy and finding a hard time to get into the game like they said

I think that throwing LaLight in category 1 is basically lazy and that they can be super helpful to keep around later in the day.  That being said, nothing really stood out as "LaLight is town!" or "LaLight is scum!"

Just kind of LaLight is....not really around.

Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on March 01, 2019, 06:33:37 pm
vote: LL

What do you have to say now that there's a bunch of people trying to lynch you? Can you explain how you've been pro-town D1, for example?

And by a bunch he really just means one really loud e that is making your wagon sound a lot larger than it is. 
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on March 01, 2019, 06:34:02 pm
because basically no one else wants to commit to lynching Robz
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on March 01, 2019, 06:36:51 pm
Last time I played multi-ball with Robz I had a gut D1 read on him that he was scum, and he was (Toy Story.  And I don't think we have played any other multi-ball games since that one?)

Trust me, I am a pro at this.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on March 01, 2019, 06:39:32 pm
Unfortunately I am not expecting being superactive on D1, sorry. I will get to it eventually unless I'm killed or lynched

Plus, LaLight (while not v/la) posted about not likely having a very active D1.  Let's just lynch them tomorrow and stick with Robz today.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on March 01, 2019, 06:40:02 pm
I thought Didds was committed to lynching Robz.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on March 01, 2019, 06:41:39 pm
I thought Didds was committed to lynching Robz.

Didds is actually voting LaLight
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on March 01, 2019, 06:41:57 pm
Hey MiX, since you like my enigmatic questions so much, why do you think Uncleeurope and I were both more interested in e's LaLight read than his Robz read?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on March 01, 2019, 06:43:17 pm
vote: Robz

I am committeed to a lynch.  I am willing to vote for LL, Robz, or Asher.  I won't vote for Jimmmm today.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on March 01, 2019, 06:43:51 pm
I'm going to totally speak for UE here and just assume I know his thought process.

@e So would you say your read on LL changed in any way?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on March 01, 2019, 06:45:11 pm
More right than it was before...
Vote count 1.2 Didds

LaLight (5): MiX, UmbrageofSnow, Shraeye, Glooble, Robz888
Jimmmmm (3): faust, Uncleeurope, raerae
raerae (2): ashersky, mcmcsalot
2.71828..... (2): LaLight, , Awaclus
Robz888 (2): 2.71828....., WestCoastDidds,

shraeye (1): Jimmmmm
MiX (1): SpaceAnemone
chickenwarlord (1): DatSwan


No Lynch (1): chickenwarlord
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Uncleeurope on March 01, 2019, 06:46:20 pm
vote: Robz

I am committeed to a lynch.  I am willing to vote for LL, Robz, or Asher.  I won't vote for Jimmmm today.

Again, why?

People are drawing weird distinctions between people and I am not seeing it.

We have a camp of Robz supporters/Jimmmm Supporters/LL Supporters and all of them are pretty lackluster in terms of defenses. Or even offenses on the other.

Why is Jimmm completely off limits?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on March 01, 2019, 06:47:11 pm
So, LaLight has not been very active at all.  That means

1) They are scum and just uncomfortable and slightly meh at being scum so many times recently
2) They are town and just busy and finding a hard time to get into the game like they said

I think that throwing LaLight in category 1 is basically lazy and that they can be super helpful to keep around later in the day.  That being said, nothing really stood out as "LaLight is town!" or "LaLight is scum!"

Just kind of LaLight is....not really around.

I agree with all of this e.  Is it any different for Robz?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on March 01, 2019, 06:47:33 pm
@e So would you say your read on LL changed in any way?

No.  I still don't like lynching them today.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on March 01, 2019, 06:48:59 pm
Vote: Robz

Baaaaaaaaa
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on March 01, 2019, 06:50:19 pm
vote: Robz

I am committeed to a lynch.  I am willing to vote for LL, Robz, or Asher.  I won't vote for Jimmmm today.

Again, why?

People are drawing weird distinctions between people and I am not seeing it.

We have a camp of Robz supporters/Jimmmm Supporters/LL Supporters and all of them are pretty lackluster in terms of defenses. Or even offenses on the other.

Why is Jimmm completely off limits?
That's fair, Eddie.

I feel like Robz, LL, Jimm, and Ashes have all been similarly low level players and we wouldn't miss any of them at this point.  Any of them could be awesome later.  In fact, all of them would likely be awesome later. Jimmmm is/was mostly in trouble for sticking up for me, so I am not gonna vote for him today.  I am okay if all of you do, though.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on March 01, 2019, 06:52:41 pm
Since I still have it up...
1.3Didds

LaLight (4): MiX, Shraeye, Glooble, Robz888
Robz888 (3): 2.71828....., WestCoastDidds, UmbrageofSnow
Jimmmmm (3): faust, Uncleeurope, raerae
raerae (2): ashersky, mcmcsalot
2.71828..... (2): LaLight, , Awaclus

shraeye (1): Jimmmmm
MiX (1): SpaceAnemone
chickenwarlord (1): DatSwan


No Lynch (1): chickenwarlord
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on March 01, 2019, 06:54:30 pm
So, LaLight has not been very active at all.  That means

1) They are scum and just uncomfortable and slightly meh at being scum so many times recently
2) They are town and just busy and finding a hard time to get into the game like they said

I think that throwing LaLight in category 1 is basically lazy and that they can be super helpful to keep around later in the day.  That being said, nothing really stood out as "LaLight is town!" or "LaLight is scum!"

Just kind of LaLight is....not really around.

I agree with all of this e.  Is it any different for Robz?

yes.  Robz has a couple things that I find scummy.
1) His self-aware meta post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19459.msg789951#msg789951)
2) I don't really like his stance on faust here (basically pre-arguing that if faust isn't NKed he must be scum):
I am just never going to support a faust lynch on Day 1, unless I'm overwhelmingly certain he is scum, which is an unlikely position for me to be in. The reason is his reads are significantly better than the average town player, which means he's worth preserving more than almost anyone else. Also, scum know this, and often shoot him at their first chance. Lets not do scums' job for them.

Honestly I would probably support no lynch over a faust lynch, even though I hate no lynching on Day 1.
3. His "useful" vote one me.  (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19459.msg790600#msg790600) Just to wagon and lynch someone as helpful town.  And then re-emphasized that is vote is all about utility and getting a lynch (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19459.msg791008#msg791008) (as evidenced again by his convenient move to LaLight)
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on March 01, 2019, 06:54:55 pm
vote: LL

What do you have to say now that there's a bunch of people trying to lynch you? Can you explain how you've been pro-town D1, for example?

A lot of people are always trying to lynch me, so nothing new there.

I donít know that Iím screaming look at me Iím town, but I am checking in and willing to move my vote to get any lynch, which is the most towny thing you can do at the moment because itís going to be damn hard to get a lynch and deadline is looming.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on March 01, 2019, 06:55:34 pm
vote: LL

What do you have to say now that there's a bunch of people trying to lynch you? Can you explain how you've been pro-town D1, for example?

And by a bunch he really just means one really loud e that is making your wagon sound a lot larger than it is. 

Well, there's 2, then ., then 7, then 1, then 8, then 2, then 8... But I remember others talking about it, right?

As for your LL reread...well, clearly he's not active. But I really don't see an attempt at reversing that...Space did it, for example. LaLight's attempt to do so was a botched attempt to make a reads list which just has a bunch of nulls...something I expected if it was early in the day, but it wasn't. There were enough posts to talk about each person and at least say what he thought about them...we were left with barely any information about LL's thoughts and/or thought process, and that for me screams "eh, I'm not active anyway, I have an excuse to not do much this day, it's D1 anyway, 18 players how likely is it for me to get lynched", which is pretty scummy.

PPE too many, why Robz and not Jimmmmmmm? At least Jimmmmmmm has that weird comment that faust pointed out, Robz has nothing. And didn't we establish that that was part of his meta, both as town and scum? At least that's what I remember...

I'll copy faust and say that Robz votes are the laziest of them all, there's nothing on him. Nothing. Unless I missed something????? I still haven't heard e's reasons to vote for Robz!
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on March 01, 2019, 06:56:58 pm
So, LaLight has not been very active at all.  That means

1) They are scum and just uncomfortable and slightly meh at being scum so many times recently
2) They are town and just busy and finding a hard time to get into the game like they said

I think that throwing LaLight in category 1 is basically lazy and that they can be super helpful to keep around later in the day.  That being said, nothing really stood out as "LaLight is town!" or "LaLight is scum!"

Just kind of LaLight is....not really around.

I agree with all of this e.  Is it any different for Robz?

yes.  Robz has a couple things that I find scummy.
1) His self-aware meta post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19459.msg789951#msg789951)
2) I don't really like his stance on faust here (basically pre-arguing that if faust isn't NKed he must be scum):
I am just never going to support a faust lynch on Day 1, unless I'm overwhelmingly certain he is scum, which is an unlikely position for me to be in. The reason is his reads are significantly better than the average town player, which means he's worth preserving more than almost anyone else. Also, scum know this, and often shoot him at their first chance. Lets not do scums' job for them.

Honestly I would probably support no lynch over a faust lynch, even though I hate no lynching on Day 1.
3. His "useful" vote one me.  (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19459.msg790600#msg790600) Just to wagon and lynch someone as helpful town.  And then re-emphasized that is vote is all about utility and getting a lynch (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19459.msg791008#msg791008) (as evidenced again by his convenient move to LaLight)

This is always always always my stance on Faust though.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on March 01, 2019, 06:57:56 pm
As for your LL reread...well, clearly he's not active. But I really don't see an attempt at reversing that...Space did it, for example. LaLight's attempt to do so was a botched attempt to make a reads list which just has a bunch of nulls...something I expected if it was early in the day, but it wasn't.

yeah, a "botched reads list" or just town that doesn't know who scum is in a large game?  I will go for the second narrative.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Uncleeurope on March 01, 2019, 07:02:10 pm
Vote: Robz

I dunno, people. My vote is still fluid, just trying some stuff out.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on March 01, 2019, 07:04:51 pm
So, LaLight has not been very active at all.  That means

1) They are scum and just uncomfortable and slightly meh at being scum so many times recently
2) They are town and just busy and finding a hard time to get into the game like they said

I think that throwing LaLight in category 1 is basically lazy and that they can be super helpful to keep around later in the day.  That being said, nothing really stood out as "LaLight is town!" or "LaLight is scum!"

Just kind of LaLight is....not really around.

I agree with all of this e.  Is it any different for Robz?

yes.  Robz has a couple things that I find scummy.
1) His self-aware meta post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19459.msg789951#msg789951)
2) I don't really like his stance on faust here (basically pre-arguing that if faust isn't NKed he must be scum):
I am just never going to support a faust lynch on Day 1, unless I'm overwhelmingly certain he is scum, which is an unlikely position for me to be in. The reason is his reads are significantly better than the average town player, which means he's worth preserving more than almost anyone else. Also, scum know this, and often shoot him at their first chance. Lets not do scums' job for them.

Honestly I would probably support no lynch over a faust lynch, even though I hate no lynching on Day 1.
3. His "useful" vote one me.  (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19459.msg790600#msg790600) Just to wagon and lynch someone as helpful town.  And then re-emphasized that is vote is all about utility and getting a lynch (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19459.msg791008#msg791008) (as evidenced again by his convenient move to LaLight)

This is always always always my stance on Faust though.

Robz is right, I remember these exact words in...what was your last game, Robz? That one. And he was town. So...that point's useless.

The others are okaaaaay, I just thought that was also part of his town meta. Didn't we talk about how Robz always plays to his meta and how he's terrible D1 and how he doesn't want to change it ever and mcmc was a bit mad that it was the case and didn't like how town let it slide...okay this is getting out of hand, but isn't this also in line with his town meta?

On the other hand, LL's play is definitly not town!LL, in fact it doesn't even seem like scum!LL, but he did change metas starting in M121, which is how he got scumread there, so maybe this is his new scum meta? When not very active, post read lists without a lot of information so people get off his back?

Whoever are the people pushing for a Jimmmmm lynch, please make a case like e did, it really helps, now I can actually see a Robz lynch.

Hey MiX, since you like my enigmatic questions so much, why do you think Uncleeurope and I were both more interested in e's LaLight read than his Robz read?

Because...no I have no idea. Is it something e said earlier in the day? Would have to reread...


See you all in 10 hours or so, please don't hammer? Deadline's in 13 hours, right? We have time :P
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on March 01, 2019, 07:07:19 pm
So, LaLight has not been very active at all.  That means

1) They are scum and just uncomfortable and slightly meh at being scum so many times recently
2) They are town and just busy and finding a hard time to get into the game like they said

I think that throwing LaLight in category 1 is basically lazy and that they can be super helpful to keep around later in the day.  That being said, nothing really stood out as "LaLight is town!" or "LaLight is scum!"

Just kind of LaLight is....not really around.

I agree with all of this e.  Is it any different for Robz?

yes.  Robz has a couple things that I find scummy.
1) His self-aware meta post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19459.msg789951#msg789951)
2) I don't really like his stance on faust here (basically pre-arguing that if faust isn't NKed he must be scum):
I am just never going to support a faust lynch on Day 1, unless I'm overwhelmingly certain he is scum, which is an unlikely position for me to be in. The reason is his reads are significantly better than the average town player, which means he's worth preserving more than almost anyone else. Also, scum know this, and often shoot him at their first chance. Lets not do scums' job for them.

Honestly I would probably support no lynch over a faust lynch, even though I hate no lynching on Day 1.
3. His "useful" vote one me.  (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19459.msg790600#msg790600) Just to wagon and lynch someone as helpful town.  And then re-emphasized that is vote is all about utility and getting a lynch (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19459.msg791008#msg791008) (as evidenced again by his convenient move to LaLight)

This is always always always my stance on Faust though.

Yeah, well, it's D1 and you have to make a case. Let's see how it works overnight then I will move/stay put tomorrow as required
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: raerae on March 01, 2019, 07:08:55 pm
vote: LL

What do you have to say now that there's a bunch of people trying to lynch you? Can you explain how you've been pro-town D1, for example?

And by a bunch he really just means one really loud e that is making your wagon sound a lot larger than it is. 

Well, there's 2, then ., then 7, then 1, then 8, then 2, then 8... But I remember others talking about it, right?

As for your LL reread...well, clearly he's not active. But I really don't see an attempt at reversing that...Space did it, for example. LaLight's attempt to do so was a botched attempt to make a reads list which just has a bunch of nulls...something I expected if it was early in the day, but it wasn't. There were enough posts to talk about each person and at least say what he thought about them...we were left with barely any information about LL's thoughts and/or thought process, and that for me screams "eh, I'm not active anyway, I have an excuse to not do much this day, it's D1 anyway, 18 players how likely is it for me to get lynched", which is pretty scummy.

PPE too many, why Robz and not Jimmmmmmm? At least Jimmmmmmm has that weird comment that faust pointed out, Robz has nothing. And didn't we establish that that was part of his meta, both as town and scum? At least that's what I remember...

I'll copy faust and say that Robz votes are the laziest of them all, there's nothing on him. Nothing. Unless I missed something????? I still haven't heard e's reasons to vote for Robz!

Then why is he on your "would lynch" list???  Your reads are EVERYWHERE.  I'm inherently mistrustful of being on any lynch with you because you just keep jumping to the one gaining the most steam.  Frankly, it makes me what to vote for whoever you DON'T want to vote for.


Yes: everyone that isn't on my read list. So I'll vote for LL, Jimmmmmm, Robz, e in that order...ah and Space. And then you, if people really want to... That's all. It's a lot of people, isn't it? But I prefer a flip to nothing here, at least we should try...
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on March 01, 2019, 07:10:23 pm
So, LL is at 4 votes now, Robz is at 4...everyone else with votes has 1 or 2.

Good night Europeans!  See you about an hour before deadline...
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on March 01, 2019, 07:12:29 pm
Hey MiX, since you like my enigmatic questions so much, why do you think Uncleeurope and I were both more interested in e's LaLight read than his Robz read?

Because...no I have no idea. Is it something e said earlier in the day? Would have to reread...

Because LaLight is e's biggest counterwagon.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on March 01, 2019, 07:12:55 pm
Errrr, I guess e was a counterwagon to LaLight at the time, whatever, you get the drift.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Uncleeurope on March 01, 2019, 07:13:27 pm
Okay, that partner read I had is screaming in my ears. I am becoming more curious about a Robz lynch.

Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on March 01, 2019, 07:32:45 pm
Iím caught up. I take back the plan comment, clearly not after all the continued discussion. If it had just disappeared poof style it would have seemed not genuine.

Shraeye is silly but not scummy, even though his vote on me is pointless and misguided. The ferengi thing wasnít a plan so much as thought based on a misread.

I think raerae is a good day one lynch today ó sheís ensured her only memorable interactions are with one (towny) player and hasnít added any content otherwise.

vote: raerae anyone?

So how does that makes me an informative lynch for town?  You're proposing a lynch of somebody who's few interactions are with somebody you have a townread on.  That seems exceedingly unhelpful to town.

Vote: ash

I think this was pointed out, but I never claimed your lynch would be informative. I said it was a good lynch. You later said the only good lynch is an informative one (which I assume is hyperbole), which someone quickly rebutted.

And to answer an earlier question, itís obviously shraeye that you tied yourself to.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on March 01, 2019, 07:35:15 pm
vote: LL

What do you have to say now that there's a bunch of people trying to lynch you? Can you explain how you've been pro-town D1, for example?

Robz said it better, but basically Robz doesnít have to care that a bunch of people may want to lynch him. Thatís his normal state of being, and it very rarely matters this early in a game. His non-reaction is completely normal, meaning there is no alignment indication to be drawn from it.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on March 01, 2019, 07:39:19 pm
I feel like Robz, LL, Jimm, and Ashes have all been similarly low level players and we wouldn't miss any of them at this point.  Any of them could be awesome later.  In fact, all of them would likely be awesome later. Jimmmm is/was mostly in trouble for sticking up for me, so I am not gonna vote for him today.  I am okay if all of you do, though.

Could you clarify what you mean by ďlow levelĒ players?  I know I took a long break, so I canít be sure what happened during that time, but even removing myself from that list to shave off bias, none of those players make a list of low level players were I to ever make one. They are all well-established, strong players who I think are well-liked and well-respected.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on March 01, 2019, 07:44:50 pm
I feel like Robz, LL, Jimm, and Ashes have all been similarly low level players and we wouldn't miss any of them at this point.  Any of them could be awesome later.  In fact, all of them would likely be awesome later. Jimmmm is/was mostly in trouble for sticking up for me, so I am not gonna vote for him today.  I am okay if all of you do, though.

Could you clarify what you mean by ďlow levelĒ players?  I know I took a long break, so I canít be sure what happened during that time, but even removing myself from that list to shave off bias, none of those players make a list of low level players were I to ever make one. They are all well-established, strong players who I think are well-liked and well-respected.

Low activity level in this game
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on March 01, 2019, 07:53:33 pm
Gotcha. Makes more sense.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on March 01, 2019, 08:01:10 pm
Alright....I am gonna go make dinner and participate in life and stuff.  I'll check back in a few hours.

I hope that Joth and Glooble are having so much fun celebrating a new year of awesome.

Didds count 1.3

LaLight (4): MiX, Shraeye, Glooble, Robz888
Robz888 (4): 2.71828....., WestCoastDidds, UmbrageofSnow, Uncleeurope
Jimmmmm (2): faust, raerae
raerae (2): ashersky, mcmcsalot
2.71828..... (2): LaLight, , Awaclus
shraeye (1): Jimmmmm
MiX (1): SpaceAnemone
chickenwarlord (1): DatSwan

No Lynch (1): chickenwarlord
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on March 01, 2019, 08:36:29 pm
I am going to be able to periodically check in for the rest of the night, Iím on eastern time. I will not be around to defend myself in the run up to deadline.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on March 01, 2019, 08:37:00 pm
If I have to move my vote i would like to know sooner rather than later. I really wish everyone would pick a main wagon.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on March 01, 2019, 09:22:59 pm
I've got my automatic vote counter working now, and agree with WCD's count

I also agree with the currently-edited state of all the mod counts except 1.1, which counted the number of "Not Voting" players incorrectly. (There are 10, but the count beside "Not Voting" says 9).
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on March 01, 2019, 09:25:37 pm
I've got my automatic vote counter working now, and agree with WCD's count

I also agree with the currently-edited state of all the mod counts except 1.1, which counted the number of "Not Voting" players incorrectly. (There are 10, but the count beside "Not Voting" says 9).

Space, move your vote to someone who is actually getting lynched maybe.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on March 01, 2019, 09:28:46 pm
I've also done re-reads of the people on the "would vote for" list I posted earlier. I think e and Uncleeurope have been promoted to "not really interested in lynching". I'm really sleepy at this point, and this is way too late for me to be awake.

Jimmmmm -- really not much to go on. I like WCD's reason for leaving him off the table at the moment. I don't see anything that makes him a scumread as opposed to a nullread at this stage, though he's also pretty absent overall. Request prod on Jimmmmm.

DatSwan -- He starts out quite reasonable. I guess it's possible that his Gul setup discussion could have been faked to try to look like he was less aware of the setup than he is if he's scum and has thought about it hard. OTOH, he then discusses scum's best choices of NK with faust, and I think makes valid points, so it's clear he's done at least some setup-specific analysis. Actually, Ash made the point first, and Swan goes on to quote him. Back to that being null, I guess. I definitely disagree with his stance on the MiX issue, which seems to be asking the thread to willfully ignore that several players have been not okay with a thing that happened in-thread to the extent that they've voluntarily taken themselves away from the game for a period. I don't think any of that is alignment indicative for Swan, but unlike him, I care more about trying to ensure that the community stays as friendly and as inclusive as it has been than I do about the deadline.

Glooble -- Happy Birthday! (Also Happy Birthday Mod!) Anyway, Glooble has done way more posting than I remembered. There's a bunch of setup stuff that seems quite switched on, and then a bunch of prior probabilities of hitting scum for different scenarios. I did actually check his numbers when he posted that.. can't remember if I ever mentioned that in-thread. Not that I think scum!Glooble would try to mislead the thread with dodgy division even if there had been errors. His e reread post makes a good point about Robz's recent meta. I have a townish read on him early. Some of his later insistences about D1 lynches being random and pushing people being scummy are kind of block statements that gloss over a lot of nuance, but I don't think being not-quite-right with them is enough of a thing to constitute a scumread.

MiX -- I've made my case already, so no need to reread here.

2.71828..... -- I seem to agree with him more than usual, which was not what I expected going into my re-read. I think he's a player I often scumread, especially in games where he's loud and tries to control the game. But I agree with Robz being very much like RMM51, and on not wanting to have LL on the table for today.

Robz888 -- Actually, his inactivity here doesn't feel totally like it did in RMM51. Here he seems to be reading and sheeping, rather than too busy to be present. I certainly have sympathy for people who find interacting with a big group on D1 tough, but that's not really the vibe I get from him either. Of the major wagons that I haven't ruled out, he's looking the most votable.

Awaclus -- At least as scummy as he was in RMM51. Which was more "Awaclusian" than "scummy" per se. He's not doing much to help us scum-hunt, is he?

Uncleeurope -- Oh yeah, he claimed Gul Dukat, so let's not lynch him today.

Vote: Robz

PPE 1: Yup, I was already busy doing that :-)
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on March 01, 2019, 09:49:52 pm
Okay, party people...its time for me to get off the computer and see about the sleeping and whatnot. This is where we are now:

Didds count 1.4

LaLight (4): MiX, Shraeye, Glooble, Robz888
Robz888 (5): 2.71828....., WestCoastDidds, UmbrageofSnow, Uncleeurope, SpaceAnemone
Jimmmmm (2): faust, raerae
raerae (2): ashersky, mcmcsalot
2.71828..... (2): LaLight, Awaclus
shraeye (1): Jimmmmm
chickenwarlord (1): DatSwan

No Lynch (1): chickenwarlord

Someone else feel free to take over the counting until Space is awake or Joth sobers up. : )

Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on March 01, 2019, 10:18:51 pm
Responding to prod request. I think I'll be around at deadline.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Chickenwarlord on March 02, 2019, 01:06:14 am
Vote Robbz

I guess it makes sense to throw my vote into the ring at this juncture. Robbz was my strongest scumread, and now that it is looking like we are converging for an actual lynch seems to have the most traction. If there is a big shift to Lalight I guess I could be persuaded, but I would much rather stick on this line.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Chickenwarlord on March 02, 2019, 01:10:01 am
Vote: Robz888
Not sure how important the colon is for searching purposes, but I figured that actually using the correct name and format would help moderation.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Uncleeurope on March 02, 2019, 01:17:15 am
Vote: Jimmmm
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Chickenwarlord on March 02, 2019, 01:20:42 am
Vote: Jimmmm
Are you moving your vote around to ensure that nobody gets lynched at this point. You seem to 'throw things out there', but at this point it just looks like you're trying to divide and play against any kind of united front.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Uncleeurope on March 02, 2019, 01:31:26 am
Nope, just trying to make sure our options are open and an inevitability is avoided.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Chickenwarlord on March 02, 2019, 02:36:16 am
Alright, I am going to try and get some rest. I will try to tune in later before the deadline should anyone make some serious moves.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: faust on March 02, 2019, 02:42:07 am
Robz888 -- Actually, his inactivity here doesn't feel totally like it did in RMM51. Here he seems to be reading and sheeping, rather than too busy to be present. I certainly have sympathy for people who find interacting with a big group on D1 tough, but that's not really the vibe I get from him either. Of the major wagons that I haven't ruled out, he's looking the most votable.
I really don't like this trying to create a scumread out of nothing. Robz is a lurker lynch, that's fine, but I don't think there is much of anything to scumread, and it reads like fake justification. I don't suppose we could get a Space wagon?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Uncleeurope on March 02, 2019, 02:45:20 am
I would actually be fine with that.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: faust on March 02, 2019, 02:52:37 am
Let's do it.

Vote: Space
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Uncleeurope on March 02, 2019, 02:54:19 am
Vote: Space
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: DatSwan on March 02, 2019, 03:32:17 am
I was wrong. I will not be here. I do not think Robz is particularly skummy but I do not want my vote to go to waste and I do not want to vote for Space.


Vote: Robz


It is 1230am my time. DL is at 5am my time. I have set an alarm for 445am.... but there is like a negative 5 percent chance I wake up.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on March 02, 2019, 04:05:37 am
Vote count 1.8

LaLight (4): MiX, Shraeye, Glooble, Robz888
Robz888 (6): 2.71828....., WestCoastDidds, UmbrageofSnow, SpaceAnemone, chickenwarlord, DatSwan
Jimmmmm (1): raerae
raerae (2): ashersky, mcmcsalot
2.71828..... (2): LaLight, Awaclus
shraeye (1): Jimmmmm
SpaceAnemone (2): faust, Uncleeurope

With 18 Alive it takes 10 to lynch most players. Deadline is at 8 am Forum Time, in 4 hours. Iíll be on an hour before.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on March 02, 2019, 04:39:01 am
Let's do it.

Vote: Space

What? I doubt this is happening...but I'm on board!

Vote: Space

Please treat as my vote being simultaneously on LL and Space, otherwise people will give up on LL and then Robz dies. Also, what happened to the Jimmmmmm wagon?

Quickvote over, time to read what happened while I was gone, and before anyone says "MiX is jumping on every wagon!", I always prefered a Space lynch, but doubted it would happen.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on March 02, 2019, 04:49:28 am
Of the ďlargeĒ wagons, I find the SA one the least bad.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on March 02, 2019, 04:55:02 am
I will be around until deadline on and off (house cleaning day) and able to move around to help a lynch happen
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on March 02, 2019, 05:10:14 am
Then why is he on your "would lynch" list???  Your reads are EVERYWHERE.  I'm inherently mistrustful of being on any lynch with you because you just keep jumping to the one gaining the most steam.  Frankly, it makes me what to vote for whoever you DON'T want to vote for.

Because I've seen nothing townie to come out of Robz. It's not a good lynch, but it's preferable over nothing (shraeye come at me), and we need a LOT of coordination if we are to actually hit scum, so I'm willing to provide it.

Space's reread isn't half bad, really. Puts down thoughts that I haven't seen before. They didn't have to do this, really. Don't like all the discussion about me and whatnot, but I know that Space would take that into consideration no matter the alignment, so it's null. faust's case is actually pretty sweet, but there wasn't a lot of support for a Space lynch (just me), so I doubt he's trying to redirect the lynch.

Well, let's test my own case. So I thought Space was scummy for a bunch of fluff and a terrible vote in a terrible case (I'm biased, but still); they changed that with the read list. That definitely makes sense for either alignment, town!Space wants to be productive and scum!Space wants to...be productive. Yeeeeah. At this point I'm willing to trust faust, but there's one thing I want to ask...

@faust, do you agree with my case on Space? And do you think Space's new activity weakens/strengthens it? I think your case is weak (weaker than my case on LL) without my part, do you agree? If yes/no, why?

The above can be answered by everyone, by the way.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on March 02, 2019, 06:00:33 am
Robz888 -- Actually, his inactivity here doesn't feel totally like it did in RMM51. Here he seems to be reading and sheeping, rather than too busy to be present. I certainly have sympathy for people who find interacting with a big group on D1 tough, but that's not really the vibe I get from him either. Of the major wagons that I haven't ruled out, he's looking the most votable.
I really don't like this trying to create a scumread out of nothing. Robz is a lurker lynch, that's fine, but I don't think there is much of anything to scumread, and it reads like fake justification. I don't suppose we could get a Space wagon?

I was not really trying to present a sudden scumread on Robz at all. I explicitly said that I feel he's not playing like RMM51 (where he was scum).. I just don't think that's enough of a justification for not voting for him, given that I needed to move for consolidation. I also said (in the Glooble and e parts of my reread that you haven't quoted above) that I agree with a bunch of stuff e's said on Robz.

If you want to present a better case on someone then I'm here till deadline and willing to move if there's a stronger justification than what I've seen so far. That goes for cases on people other than on me.. I'm still not sure self-voting is ever a good thing for town.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Glooble on March 02, 2019, 06:02:01 am
Robz888 -- Actually, his inactivity here doesn't feel totally like it did in RMM51. Here he seems to be reading and sheeping, rather than too busy to be present. I certainly have sympathy for people who find interacting with a big group on D1 tough, but that's not really the vibe I get from him either. Of the major wagons that I haven't ruled out, he's looking the most votable.
I really don't like this trying to create a scumread out of nothing. Robz is a lurker lynch, that's fine, but I don't think there is much of anything to scumread, and it reads like fake justification. I don't suppose we could get a Space wagon?

Robz was scum in RMM51 (I mean you know that, you modded it.) so Space saying his inactivity feels different from that game should be justification for Robz being town? But Space uses it before voting for Robz. I guess I donít find this post scummy, just confusing. OTOH, they did say they were really sleepy which can explain fuzzy logic.

I donít particularly want to lynch Space. But Iíve never actually played a game with town!Space, only ďthird party that was almost it not quite town-aligned!Space.Ē So I donít know if anything is out of character for them. But I just reread everything Space has said today and I have no reason to think they are scum. And Space is a useful player to have around. They have a wagon analysis method that I donít understand but apparently is helpful and mathy.

Iíd rather a lurker lynch at this point tbh- could get behind LL, jimmmm, or Robz, in that order. Town Robz is very good later on but scum Robz is very scary later on and I believe won the last time this set-up was run(?) Donít quote me on that I could be remembering wrong.

I donít know what I do if the choice is Space or No Lynch. I suppose weíll find out if we get to that point. We have 2 hours.

PPE 1
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Awaclus on March 02, 2019, 06:06:40 am
Vote: Robz
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Uncleeurope on March 02, 2019, 06:12:57 am
TheseBeTheVotes - Eddie Edition


LaLight (3): Shraeye, Glooble, Robz888
Robz888 (7): 2.71828....., WestCoastDidds, UmbrageofSnow, SpaceAnemone, chickenwarlord, DatSwan, Awaclus
Jimmmmm (1): raerae
raerae (2): ashersky, mcmcsalot
2.71828..... (1): LaLight
shraeye (1): Jimmmmm
SpaceAnemone (3): faust, Uncleeurope, MiX



Robz hit L-3
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Glooble on March 02, 2019, 06:15:50 am
Ugh, fine.

vote: Robz
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Uncleeurope on March 02, 2019, 06:20:52 am
L-2
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on March 02, 2019, 06:23:47 am
Vote: Robz
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on March 02, 2019, 06:42:56 am
Good morning! The question for the moment is why can't cats make coffee? Le sigh...

Robz at L-1?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Awaclus on March 02, 2019, 06:44:07 am
Robz at L-1?

Assuming Eddie's vote count is correct, yes.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Uncleeurope on March 02, 2019, 06:47:18 am
Good morning! The question for the moment is why can't cats make coffee? Le sigh...

Robz at L-1?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kopi_Luwak

They make the most expensive coffee in the world.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on March 02, 2019, 06:48:24 am
Space count up to #848

2.71828..... (1): LaLight
Robz888 (9): 2.71828....., WestCoastDidds, UmbrageOfSnow, SpaceAnemone, Chickenwarlord, DatSwan, Awaclus, Glooble, Jimmmmm
raerae (2): ashersky, mcmcsalot
LaLight (2): Shraeye, Robz888
Jimmmmm (1): raerae
SpaceAnemone (3): faust, Uncleeurope, MiX
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on March 02, 2019, 06:54:19 am
Good morning! The question for the moment is why can't cats make coffee? Le sigh...

Robz at L-1?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kopi_Luwak

They make the most expensive coffee in the world.

Eddie!  Noooooooooooo!  I want them to brew the coffee! Or go out and get me some coffee. Instead they are taking this moment of quite before 6 am when the house is quiet and everyone is asleep to engage in wrestlemania.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Uncleeurope on March 02, 2019, 07:03:29 am
Well, if all the stragglers have no interest in grouping, and the Robz people have no interest in all trading off to someone else then we are all just going to stare at the screen until another hour starts to go by and someone hammers.

So anyone interested in killing Space?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on March 02, 2019, 07:04:42 am
So anyone interested in killing Space?

Prefer Robz
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on March 02, 2019, 07:05:02 am
Hmm. So that happened. L-1. Well it was bound to happen.

I don't think we can move enough people to either LL or Space anymore...which is unfortunate. 

Who's here? Me, e, Glooble, Awaclus, Space, Didds, Jimmmmm, Uncle, ashersky(?), faust, chicken. So we can lynch whoever we want, given the time. Okay, I need to reread Robz.

PPE 1: This reminds me, whoever makes the best case on Robz (or points to the best case on Robz (not e's)) gets the grand prize of me sheeping them. Go!
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on March 02, 2019, 07:06:57 am
Hmm. So that happened. L-1. Well it was bound to happen.

I don't think we can move enough people to either LL or Space anymore...which is unfortunate. 

Who's here? Me, e, Glooble, Awaclus, Space, Didds, Jimmmmm, Uncle, ashersky(?), faust, chicken. So we can lynch whoever we want, given the time. Okay, I need to reread Robz.

PPE 1: This reminds me, whoever makes the best case on Robz (or points to the best case on Robz (not e's)) gets the grand prize of me sheeping them. Go!

There is no real foolproof case on anyone today. I just prefer my Robz case to other not very good cases
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: WestCoastDidds on March 02, 2019, 07:07:46 am
I am not interested in killing Space.

Whats with mcmc and Asher hanging out on raerae? That's annoying and not awesome.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Glooble on March 02, 2019, 07:12:18 am
As I said, I would prefer LL or Jimmmm but Robz looked like it could actually happen. Also if we wait to hammer until right before deadline we run the risk of Robz being Morn and no lynch happening anyway.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: 2.71828..... on March 02, 2019, 07:12:21 am
45 minutes left, right?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on March 02, 2019, 07:13:26 am
Vote count 1.9

LaLight (2): Shraeye, Robz888
Robz888 (9): 2.71828....., WestCoastDidds, UmbrageofSnow, SpaceAnemone, chickenwarlord, DatSwan, Awaclus, Glooble, Jimmmmm
Jimmmmm (1): raerae
raerae (2): ashersky, mcmcsalot
2.71828..... (1): LaLight
SpaceAnemone (3): faust, Uncleeurope, MiX

With 18 alive it takes 10 to lynch most players. Deadline is at 8 am Forum Time, in 45 minutes.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on March 02, 2019, 07:17:00 am
As I said, I would prefer LL or Jimmmm but Robz looked like it could actually happen. Also if we wait to hammer until right before deadline we run the risk of Robz being Morn and no lynch happening anyway.

Crap. But Robz isn't here. Okay, let's do this, 2 people do intent to hammer, alright? Then they both vote! That is, if one votes, the other must vote.

From what I was reading, I think this is correct...

Intent to hammer

But I'm not finished rereading. Everyone agree with my 2 intent to hammer thing? I think it makes sense...

@joth, raerae has a vote too! And I think it's on Jimmmmmmmm but could be wrong.

Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Awaclus on March 02, 2019, 07:19:02 am
Non-Robz lynches aren't realistically going to happen with 40 minutes left and 10 people required for the lynch to go through.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on March 02, 2019, 07:19:21 am
@joth, raerae has a vote too! And I think it's on Jimmmmmmmm but could be wrong.

Good catch. Fixed.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Uncleeurope on March 02, 2019, 07:19:54 am
Non-Robz lynches aren't realistically going to happen with 40 minutes left and 10 people required for the lynch to go through.

But what if we believe with our heart of hearts and the power of will?
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: Awaclus on March 02, 2019, 07:20:47 am
Non-Robz lynches aren't realistically going to happen with 40 minutes left and 10 people required for the lynch to go through.

But what if we believe with our heart of hearts and the power of will?

That's not going to magically make 10 people appear and agree with each other.
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on March 02, 2019, 07:23:34 am
vote: robz
Title: Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
Post by: MiX on March 02, 2019, 07:24:14 am
Non-Robz lynches aren't realistically going to happen with 40 minutes left and 10 people required for the lynch to go through.

But what if we believe with our heart of hearts and the power of will?

Not even then, there's 10 people active, we would have to change pretty much everyone's mind...

Remember UoS's plan regarding Garak? Well, I like conditionals, so if I'm Garak and if I use bus drive N1, I'll target Uncle and faus