...when I think back to the most entertaining games over the long haul, some of them were a bit wild. I mean, for me personally, some highlights were: Joetheonah's Deep Space Nine (Mafia 19, I think?)...
You win when all threats to the Station have been eliminated, and there is at least one Station-aligned player left alive, or nothing can stop this from happening.
Odo -- flavor/role cop, falsely investigates as Changeling
Odo -- flavor/role cop, falsely investigates as Changeling
Does this mean "Investigates as Changeling, falsely or otherwise"?
If he is, say, Maquis, will he return a negative result to the Maquis Cop?
So he only investigates as Changeling when investigates by Bashir. O’Brien or Worf will get “not MU” or “not Maquis” (unless Odo is one of those things)
So he only investigates as Changeling when investigates by Bashir. O’Brien or Worf will get “not MU” or “not Maquis” (unless Odo is one of those things)
I may be being a tad pedantic, but I'm questioning the "falsely". He might happen to be a Changeling, in which case Bashir will correctly investigate him as Changeling. Correct?
/in Unless you’d rather I co-mod with you.
(Ferengi are a neighborhood. They will be mod-confirmed to not include a specific alignment. That can be the alignment that isn't in the game.)Can you clarify how that works? The alignment not included will be posted in the QT? Is the alignment excluded chosen before picking the Ferengi or the other way around? And how will the excluded alignment be determined exactly?
(Ferengi are a neighborhood. They will be mod-confirmed to not include a specific alignment. That can be the alignment that isn't in the game.)Can you clarify how that works? The alignment not included will be posted in the QT? Is the alignment excluded chosen before picking the Ferengi or the other way around? And how will the excluded alignment be determined exactly?
The SK in this setup seems super weak. Only 1-shot BP AND a guaranteed Cop against them? In a game of 18 players?
Keep in mind, Sk also has a dedicated miller which mitigates the effectiveness of the dedicated cop a bit. But actually thinking about it, maybe full bulletproof is the solution. It’s also somewhat flavorful, since changeligs are quite hard to kill.It doesn't mitigate it quite as much when you consider that the SK cannot actually claim that role without being counterclaimed. I'd really want to give them something to avoid being exposed, because that is really really unfun. Maybe X-shot Commuter or something along those lines. Though in that case "No result" may still out them. Having an SK Cop just seems like a pretty bad idea, I'm not sure it can work.
Keep in mind, Sk also has a dedicated miller which mitigates the effectiveness of the dedicated cop a bit. But actually thinking about it, maybe full bulletproof is the solution. It’s also somewhat flavorful, since changeligs are quite hard to kill.It doesn't mitigate it quite as much when you consider that the SK cannot actually claim that role without being counterclaimed. I'd really want to give them something to avoid being exposed, because that is really really unfun. Maybe X-shot Commuter or something along those lines. Though in that case "No result" may still out them. Having an SK Cop just seems like a pretty bad idea, I'm not sure it can work.
I've never felt more alive.
I just played my first game of f.ds mafia. I cannot stop.
/in
I've never felt more alive.
Should I play? I survived for a fairly long time in the first iteration — don’t recall my role but I was town.
Should I play? I survived for a fairly long time in the first iteration — don’t recall my role but I was town.
I have typed a reply here somewhere around six times, I have no idea how feasible it is to be in two games at once for me...
F/ine.
So it seems like everyone does individual QTs these days. Has private messaging for roles just fallen out of favor?
Trying to talk roommate into this. He's American but works the graveyard shift so he'd be online at the same time as the Europeans.
Trying to talk roommate into this. He's American but works the graveyard shift so he'd be online at the same time as the Europeans.
If you're roommate /ins then I will too. Obviously this should have enormous bearing on their decision.
/in
/in
You wrote it. It was meant to be.
Chicken warlord is almost certainly Glooble’s roommate, so raerae I guess you’re in. Hopefully you and shraeye can handle being in the game together with the two-year-old.
I need to find a quote from the last game to put as my sig.
I am going to go ahead and vote: Awaclus because I was right last game, dammit, and no one believed me!
I need to find a quote from the last game to put as my sig.
I am going to go ahead and vote: Awaclus because I was right last game, dammit, and no one believed me!
Well you're wrong this time.
Vote: LaLightSomething something ongoing game.
This will be 3 scum games in a row, right?
M120, RMM51, and this game. They are on a streak! You can beat WW's streak, I know it!
How ironic coming from you.I need to find a quote from the last game to put as my sig.
I am going to go ahead and vote: Awaclus because I was right last game, dammit, and no one believed me!
Well you're wrong this time.
How ironic coming from you.I need to find a quote from the last game to put as my sig.
I am going to go ahead and vote: Awaclus because I was right last game, dammit, and no one believed me!
Well you're wrong this time.
I remember you for a long time always opening with a silverspawn vote because he was scum in Futuramafia. Now Glooble does the same to you.How ironic coming from you.I need to find a quote from the last game to put as my sig.
I am going to go ahead and vote: Awaclus because I was right last game, dammit, and no one believed me!
Well you're wrong this time.
How is that ironic coming from me?
I think Gul Dukat should claim.
I think Gul Dukat should claim.
I think everyone should claim to be (or not to be) hated at L-2. I don't see the advantage of outing a non-cop instantly.
The advantage is that we guarantee that no Cop wastes their shot on a useless target.I think Gul Dukat should claim.
I think everyone should claim to be (or not to be) hated at L-2. I don't see the advantage of outing a non-cop instantly.
For the same reason we probably want an instant IC reveal.
For the same reason we probably want an instant IC reveal.
To get him killed instantly? But then I guess cops don't drop dead, huh...
Essencially, we get more results from cops, but cops die sooner...not sure if that's a good tradeoff.
I'll need to think about this...
Hence my being less sure about the IC thing. We don't need to discuss that; they can just decide on their own. But Gul Dukat does not need to be protected, so that is definitely a good claim.For the same reason we probably want an instant IC reveal.
To get him killed instantly? But then I guess cops don't drop dead, huh...
Essencially, we get more results from cops, but cops die sooner...not sure if that's a good tradeoff.
I'll need to think about this...
Keep in mind we only have a 1-shot doctor, who might be scum, and maybe a 1-shot bus driver (who also might be scum.) That’s not a lot of protective roles to protect anyone who might claim.
Why is Gul Dukat a useless target? He's not the IC.The advantage is that we guarantee that no Cop wastes their shot on a useless target.I think Gul Dukat should claim.
I think everyone should claim to be (or not to be) hated at L-2. I don't see the advantage of outing a non-cop instantly.
Hence my being less sure about the IC thing. We don't need to discuss that; they can just decide on their own. But Gul Dukat does not need to be protected, so that is definitely a good claim.For the same reason we probably want an instant IC reveal.
To get him killed instantly? But then I guess cops don't drop dead, huh...
Essencially, we get more results from cops, but cops die sooner...not sure if that's a good tradeoff.
I'll need to think about this...
Keep in mind we only have a 1-shot doctor, who might be scum, and maybe a 1-shot bus driver (who also might be scum.) That’s not a lot of protective roles to protect anyone who might claim.
Why is Gul Dukat a useless target? He's not the IC.The advantage is that we guarantee that no Cop wastes their shot on a useless target.I think Gul Dukat should claim.
I think everyone should claim to be (or not to be) hated at L-2. I don't see the advantage of outing a non-cop instantly.
But I fully agree that each town should decide for themselves the best time to claim. There isn't much point in discussing these things too hard. RVS is random voting stage, not really verbose strategizing.RVS is bullshit.
But I fully agree that each town should decide for themselves the best time to claim. There isn't much point in discussing these things too hard. RVS is random voting stage, not really verbose strategizing.RVS is bullshit.
Also sure town roles can decide this for themselves. But how do we know that Gul is town? Scum needs to be forced to make that claim.
Yeah, I agree on RVS.But I fully agree that each town should decide for themselves the best time to claim. There isn't much point in discussing these things too hard. RVS is random voting stage, not really verbose strategizing.RVS is bullshit.
Also sure town roles can decide this for themselves. But how do we know that Gul is town? Scum needs to be forced to make that claim.
RVS is random voting stage, not really verbose strategizing.
RVS is random voting stage, not really verbose strategizing.
Love the joke, disagree with the premise. It’s all about encouraging conversation so we have something to analyze later when we have more information. Plus every so often scum trips up, which is more likely with more talking.
Oh I missed the town benefit of scum!gull claiming by locking them into a gull claim. That may tip the scales in favor of gull claiming.Are you serious?! My "it's not worth it" post makes you think it's worth it. #backfire #facepalm
Oh I missed the town benefit of scum!gull claiming by locking them into a gull claim. That may tip the scales in favor of gull claiming.Are you serious?! My "it's not worth it" post makes you think it's worth it. #backfire #facepalm
Disregard mcmcs, he's not right.
Also important to note that all cops aren’t guaranteed to be town so the chances that a town!cop hits gull is pretty low.Yeah but it doesn't really matter for us whether a town Cop hits scum or a scum Cop hits other scum.
Also important to note that all cops aren’t guaranteed to be town so the chances that a town!cop hits gull is pretty low.Yeah but it doesn't really matter for us whether a town Cop hits scum or a scum Cop hits other scum.
shraeye seems like town.
Have I played with you before? I forget.
Also, what is the whole big deal for someone claiming D1?
shraeye seems like town.
Have I played with you before? I forget.
Also, what is the whole big deal for someone claiming D1?
What??? Well that makes me feel old
Vote: e
Neat. Vote: Eddie
Right, no, I forgot we have to wait a day.
Hmm. Back to vote: e
PPE: Eddie = Uncleeurope.
Right, no, I forgot we have to wait a day.
Hmm. Back to vote: e
PPE: Eddie = Uncleeurope.
See, I told you we should be voting faust
If we lynch him today, the Universal Backup will inherit the Hated Godfather. We do not want that.Right, no, I forgot we have to wait a day.
Hmm. Back to vote: e
PPE: Eddie = Uncleeurope.
See, I told you we should be voting faust
I disagree and will also vote: europe
First! vote:raerae because I can!
I need to find a quote from the last game to put as my sig.
I am going to go ahead and vote: Awaclus because I was right last game, dammit, and no one believed me!
Neat. Vote: Eddie
Vote: Snow
Nice to be in a game with you again, bro.
I do like Dukat claiming, now I don't have to argue about it though.
Also we obviously can't control when people claim, but faust, shraeye and others (and Joth in the Ancillary game) are really pushing this thing where it's all up to the town. Obvious it is up to the individual players but it is very much worth discussing. I was serious when I said I thought it had hurt town in Ancillary Mafia, the only thing I was lying about there was being upset about it.
This game is open so for the new players, scum have no value in fake claiming here, since every single one of us has a unique name from a known list. Towns lately seem to love randomly claiming their roles at L-4 or whatever and it's hugely anti-town. Even if your role is not a likely NK target, you narrow the pool of targets for the roles scum are looking for and it hurts everyone else.
Mafia is a team game, and decisions each player makes effect their whole team.
I don't know where this argument is coming from, but multiple players across multiple games are saying things with similar language so it's getting to be kind of a meme and I really think it's bad play that we should clamp down on.
In RMM51, it definitely helped scum a ton that a lot of information was available and that a lot of it was true. We were able to make very informed decisions most nights.
right unvoteIf we lynch him today, the Universal Backup will inherit the Hated Godfather. We do not want that.Right, no, I forgot we have to wait a day.
Hmm. Back to vote: e
PPE: Eddie = Uncleeurope.
See, I told you we should be voting faust
I disagree and will also vote: europe
Hi! Hi! Hi! Hi! Hi!
I’m at a conference in Seattle for work this weekend, so I’m not going to be present in any real way until Tuesday.
I read the OG version of the game on the plane last night. Holy cow...Day 1 was like 2 weeks long. 50 pages! I’m glad y’all cut that ish down before I got here.
I've come to appreciate RVS but I get the RVS is lame argument, used to feel that way too but now I kind of like it. Which is why I'm a bit sad this is a totally serious vote.Dude, like NOTHING has happened. We aren't at serious-vote stage yet, that's absurd.
Mafia is a team game, and decisions each player makes effect their whole team.Yeah, but I trust in my own ability to work what is best for the whole town and not pick bad options only because they save myself for a bit. It seems that the whole basis for your "let me tell you what you should do" post is that other players are too short-sighted to figure out what seems immediately bad for them versus what is long-term bad for town. A) that's wrong and B) that's rude.
Also, Shraeye, just sit out the theory talk so you don't soft not-X info if you want, but with this setup we're going to need to talk theory at certain points, especially after claims.Like, literally, this. I can make that decision for myself. #sarcasticthanks
I've come to appreciate RVS but I get the RVS is lame argument, used to feel that way too but now I kind of like it. Which is why I'm a bit sad this is a totally serious vote.Dude, like NOTHING has happened. We aren't at serious-vote stage yet, that's absurd.Mafia is a team game, and decisions each player makes effect their whole team.Yeah, but I trust in my own ability to work what is best for the whole town and not pick bad options only because they save myself for a bit. It seems that the whole basis for your "let me tell you what you should do" post is that other players are too short-sighted to figure out what seems immediately bad for them versus what is long-term bad for town. A) that's wrong and B) that's rude.Also, Shraeye, just sit out the theory talk so you don't soft not-X info if you want, but with this setup we're going to need to talk theory at certain points, especially after claims.Like, literally, this. I can make that decision for myself. #sarcasticthanks
I've come to appreciate RVS but I get the RVS is lame argument, used to feel that way too but now I kind of like it. Which is why I'm a bit sad this is a totally serious vote.Dude, like NOTHING has happened. We aren't at serious-vote stage yet, that's absurd.
Speaking of the right decision, more people should vote faust. If they actually turn out scum then I am basically an ICYou should try this on someone else if you want to become an IC.
Also we obviously can't control when people claim, but faust, shraeye and others (and Joth in the Ancillary game) are really pushing this thing where it's all up to the town. Obvious it is up to the individual players but it is very much worth discussing. I was serious when I said I thought it had hurt town in Ancillary Mafia, the only thing I was lying about there was being upset about it.The main problem in discussing it is that invariably people will drop hints about whether they are the role in question etc. That kind of half-info is the worst we can do, but on the other hand, it is kind of impossible to get to a town consensus without going through revealing discussion.
Speaking of the right decision, more people should vote faust. If they actually turn out scum then I am basically an ICYou should try this on someone else if you want to become an IC.
They may make the wrong decision, but at least that means that at the end of the day, I get to yell at them and blame them for losing the game for us if they do.
Dude, like NOTHING has happened. We aren't at serious-vote stage yet, that's absurd.In that daily effort in which intelligence and passion mingle and delight each other, the absurd man discovers reads that will make up the greatest of his strengths.
Yeah, but I trust in my own ability to work what is best for the whole town and not pick bad options only because they save myself for a bit. It seems that the whole basis for your "let me tell you what you should do" post is that other players are too short-sighted to figure out what seems immediately bad for them versus what is long-term bad for town. A) that's wrong and B) that's rude.
Anyway, care to guess why I voted for faust?
Anyway, care to guess why I voted for faust?
You missed the fact that he unvoted Uncle, didn't you?
Now, serious talk: anyone who knows Robz's meta, does he analyze setups? Does he like to break setups? Is he usually good at theory talk in general?
So, uncle claimed...well that makes him unlynchable, so he might as well be the IC for this day, right?
Vote: raerae, I happen to like e's reason to townread shraeye, and your vote seems like a good way to not play RVS, since he's not dying today.
I think Gul Dukat should claim.
I think everyone should claim to be (or not to be) hated at L-2. I don't see the advantage of outing a non-cop instantly.
Why would you out a cop instantly?
Anyway, care to guess why I voted for faust?
You missed the fact that he unvoted Uncle, didn't you?
Now, serious talk: anyone who knows Robz's meta, does he analyze setups? Does he like to break setups? Is he usually good at theory talk in general?
So, uncle claimed...well that makes him unlynchable, so he might as well be the IC for this day, right?
Vote: raerae, I happen to like e's reason to townread shraeye, and your vote seems like a good way to not play RVS, since he's not dying today.
I think Gul Dukat should claim.
I think everyone should claim to be (or not to be) hated at L-2. I don't see the advantage of outing a non-cop instantly.
Why would you out a cop instantly?
I feel like I should answer this: just because I said I didn't see the advantage of outing a non-cop doesn't mean I saw an advantage in outing cops: we were talking about Gul, and we know that he's not a cop.
PPE 1: Because I have an uncanny ability to see the future; with this, I can predict that e won't flip his townread, and I expect to strenghten mine as well. I might be reading too much into this, being early D1 and all, but I use all information we have available.
Anyway, care to guess why I voted for faust?Vote: raerae, I happen to like e's reason to townread shraeye, and your vote seems like a good way to not play RVS, since he's not dying today.
What was my reason that shraeye is town?
Speaking of the right decision, more people should vote faust. If they actually turn out scum then I am basically an ICthis is backwards thinking vote: E
I think Gul Dukat should claim.
I think everyone should claim to be (or not to be) hated at L-2. I don't see the advantage of outing a non-cop instantly.
Why would you out a cop instantly?
I feel like I should answer this: just because I said I didn't see the advantage of outing a non-cop doesn't mean I saw an advantage in outing cops: we were talking about Gul, and we know that he's not a cop.
PPE 1: Because I have an uncanny ability to see the future; with this, I can predict that e won't flip his townread, and I expect to strenghten mine as well. I might be reading too much into this, being early D1 and all, but I use all information we have available.
I read the OG version of the game on the plane last night. Holy cow...Day 1 was like 2 weeks long. 50 pages! I’m glad y’all cut that ish down before I got here.
My favorite part was when yuma claimed he hadn't used the role he was lying about having because he accidentally e-mailed the mod's old e-mail address that he never checks and people actually bought it.
Sigh...okay, okay...
18+, Europe, College, studying math.
Did that answer your question? I won't get into more specifics.
For hobbies, well, where are we, right? Except I started playing it in Tabletop Simulator, not IRL.
Sigh...okay, okay...
18+, Europe, College, studying math.
Did that answer your question? I won't get into more specifics.
For hobbies, well, where are we, right? Except I started playing it in Tabletop Simulator, not IRL.
There's one other important question:
Do you have a neopets account, and how many of them are named "Jessica?"
I happen to like e's reason to townread shraeye, and your vote seems like a good way to not play RVS, since he's not dying today.
Sigh...okay, okay...
18+, Europe, College, studying math.
Did that answer your question? I won't get into more specifics.
For hobbies, well, where are we, right? Except I started playing it in Tabletop Simulator, not IRL.
There are no masons, no cop results, and I doubt this is partner interaction. Thus I believe that you have a genuine townread.
Mine is him soft-claiming not Gul feeling very casual, that and his general jokey-ness, which I believe comes from town!shraeye, based on previous games I read.
Any questions?
Whatever; you can't get enough of mathtalk and you know it.Sigh...okay, okay...
18+, Europe, College, studying math.
Did that answer your question? I won't get into more specifics.
For hobbies, well, where are we, right? Except I started playing it in Tabletop Simulator, not IRL.
Studying math is sure sign of being scum.
PS: You and shraeye should talk math (not in thread because snore city!) and see if you overlap. #research
My meta is I’m useless at setup stuff and just kind of hate day 1 in general.
My meta is I’m useless at setup stuff and just kind of hate day 1 in general.
Does anyone like Day 1?
Does anyone like Day 1?I imagine it is fun for the mastermind watching biases play out. Not a big fan of first day shots in the dark myself - but with multiple scum teams might be a tad more viable.
Sigh...okay, okay...
18+, Europe, College, studying math.
Did that answer your question? I won't get into more specifics.
For hobbies, well, where are we, right? Except I started playing it in Tabletop Simulator, not IRL.
Sigh...okay, okay...
18+, Europe, College, studying math.
Did that answer your question? I won't get into more specifics.
For hobbies, well, where are we, right? Except I started playing it in Tabletop Simulator, not IRL.
All the cool kids have neopets accounts
There's one other important question:
Do you have a neopets account, and how many of them are named "Jessica?"
My meta is I’m useless at setup stuff and just kind of hate day 1 in general.
Sigh...okay, okay...
18+, Europe, College, studying math.
Did that answer your question? I won't get into more specifics.
For hobbies, well, where are we, right? Except I started playing it in Tabletop Simulator, not IRL.All the cool kids have neopets accounts
There's one other important question:
Do you have a neopets account, and how many of them are named "Jessica?"
My meta is I’m useless at setup stuff and just kind of hate day 1 in general.
This isn’t a meta it’s a failure to be care to be good at the game.
Anyway, care to guess why I voted for faust?Vote: raerae, I happen to like e's reason to townread shraeye, and your vote seems like a good way to not play RVS, since he's not dying today.
What was my reason that shraeye is town?
There are no masons, no cop results, and I doubt this is partner interaction. Thus I believe that you have a genuine townread.
Mine is him soft-claiming not Gul feeling very casual, that and his general jokey-ness, which I believe comes from town!shraeye, based on previous games I read.
Any questions?
PPE 1: There are no advantages of outing a cop. There are also no advantages of outing a non-cop. Please state if you wish for me to clarify.
Yes, it is the best Day.My meta is I’m useless at setup stuff and just kind of hate day 1 in general.
Does anyone like Day 1?
I do like Dukat claiming, now I don't have to argue about it though.
Also we obviously can't control when people claim, but faust, shraeye and others (and Joth in the Ancillary game) are really pushing this thing where it's all up to the town. Obvious it is up to the individual players but it is very much worth discussing. I was serious when I said I thought it had hurt town in Ancillary Mafia, the only thing I was lying about there was being upset about it.
This game is open so for the new players, scum have no value in fake claiming here, since every single one of us has a unique name from a known list. Towns lately seem to love randomly claiming their roles at L-4 or whatever and it's hugely anti-town. Even if your role is not a likely NK target, you narrow the pool of targets for the roles scum are looking for and it hurts everyone else.
Mafia is a team game, and decisions each player makes effect their whole team.
I don't know where this argument is coming from, but multiple players across multiple games are saying things with similar language so it's getting to be kind of a meme and I really think it's bad play that we should clamp down on.
PPE 1: Because I have an uncanny ability to see the future; with this, I can predict that e won't flip his townread, and I expect to strenghten mine as well. I might be reading too much into this, being early D1 and all, but I use all information we have available.
Down to 15 for my lynch pool. D1 is awesome!Should be 14. 17 - UoS - shraeye - Eddie
I happen to like e's reason to townread shraeye, and your vote seems like a good way to not play RVS, since he's not dying today.
What. What what? e has no reason. How on earth can you like it?
Are you scum?
Down to 15 for my lynch pool. D1 is awesome!Should be 14. 17 - UoS - shraeye - Eddie
I happen to like e's reason to townread shraeye, and your vote seems like a good way to not play RVS, since he's not dying today.
What. What what? e has no reason. How on earth can you like it?
Not THIS again...do I have to explain my thought process, getting lynched in the process? Well, here goes...
E said he had a townread on shraeye. Seeing as I've played with him and read some of his past games, I went to see if I, too, got a townread from reading shraeye closer. I found out that, yes, I did, even if not as much as E's "conf!town". Thus, I assumed his reasons to townread shraeye were the same as mine.
Happy?Are you scum?
No.
I happen to like e's reason to townread shraeye, and your vote seems like a good way to not play RVS, since he's not dying today.
What. What what? e has no reason. How on earth can you like it?
Not THIS again...do I have to explain my thought process, getting lynched in the process? Well, here goes...
E said he had a townread on shraeye. Seeing as I've played with him and read some of his past games, I went to see if I, too, got a townread from reading shraeye closer. I found out that, yes, I did, even if not as much as E's "conf!town". Thus, I assumed his reasons to townread shraeye were the same as mine.
Happy?Are you scum?
No.
Y’all are generation gapping me. I know nothing about the neopets.
But I used the Internet when Internet Relay Chat was a thing. I like being old...more money means better drinks.
Sigh...okay, okay...
18+, Europe, College, studying math.
Did that answer your question? I won't get into more specifics.
For hobbies, well, where are we, right? Except I started playing it in Tabletop Simulator, not IRL.
My meta is I’m useless at setup stuff and just kind of hate day 1 in general.
Does anyone like Day 1?
1) Are you a native English speaker? Your use of "College" and "math" marks you out as very unlikely to be from the UK. I think you're probably a fluent non-native rather than an American studying abroad, but the distinction could be relevant if trying to read a lot into your posts later.
2) What timezone are you in? It's useful to know when deadlines fall in timezones where a player can or can't be present. In general, US-evening deadlines suck for Europe-based players. I'm a night own based in the UK, so I'm at forum time plus five, but offset a couple of hours west because I don't really like mornings and try to minimise my exposure :-P
Is MiX a veteran from somewhere else? Plays with a lot of confidence, which I auto-read as scummy when I'm not familiar with them.
Basically everyone is scummy, no town reads for anyone. That can't be right, right?
SA is being nice and hasn't yet analyzed anything, which means they're scum.
Y’all are generation gapping me. I know nothing about the neopets.
But I used the Internet when Internet Relay Chat was a thing. I like being old...more money means better drinks.
IRC is a thing.
My meta is I’m useless at setup stuff and just kind of hate day 1 in general.
Does anyone like Day 1?
Do you? Answer honestly please.
Easy, he's got precognition. You can google that for more info if you want.PPE 1: Because I have an uncanny ability to see the future; with this, I can predict that e won't flip his townread, and I expect to strenghten mine as well. I might be reading too much into this, being early D1 and all, but I use all information we have available.Wait, what does this mean?
And we can add Joth to that pool too!Down to 15 for my lynch pool. D1 is awesome!Should be 14. 17 - UoS - shraeye - Eddie
Speaking of chicken, where are they?Maybe they're......chicken 8)
politeness dictates...politeness schmoliteness
I’m prone to fluffy chatting and newb mistakes...I’m working on correcting one of those.Ooh, which one?
Not THIS again...do I have to explain my thought process, getting lynched in the process? Well, here goes...Yeah, actually very happy.
E said he had a townread on shraeye. Seeing as I've played with him and read some of his past games, I went to see if I, too, got a townread from reading shraeye closer. I found out that, yes, I did, even if not as much as E's "conf!town". Thus, I assumed his reasons to townread shraeye were the same as mine.
Happy?
Anyway, care to guess why I voted for faust?Nope, not at all
Is MiX a veteran from somewhere else? Plays with a lot of confidence, which I auto-read as scummy when I'm not familiar with them.You know what's a bad idea? Basing reads on oversimplifications of metas.
Robz is a great D1 lynch, but also a useful player later in the game, so it's a toss up there.
Every mcmc post has felt like a good post, which means he's scum.
SA is being nice and hasn't yet analyzed anything, which means they're scum.
Basically everyone is scummy, no town reads for anyone. That can't be right, right?
Y’all are generation gapping me. I know nothing about the neopets.
But I used the Internet when Internet Relay Chat was a thing. I like being old...more money means better drinks.
IRC is a thing.
Really? Still? It literally feels like that was a million years ago.
Let's quicklynch someone so we can get to Day 2. Who's up?
Let's quicklynch someone so we can get to Day 2. Who's up?
We could fast! How about no lunch today? I know shraeye is down.
What the UB becomes is random anyway. You mean the rest doesn't know what they become? I doubt that should influence our decision.We could fast! How about no lunch today? I know shraeye is down.
No lynch means what UB becomes is random, because we'll probably have 2 deaths. This is the worst outcome.
...but last time I said something about the setup I was wrong. So maybe I miscalculated something? Can anyone confirm the above makes sense?
What the UB becomes is random anyway. You mean the rest doesn't know what they become? I doubt that should influence our decision.We could fast! How about no lunch today? I know shraeye is down.
No lynch means what UB becomes is random, because we'll probably have 2 deaths. This is the worst outcome.
...but last time I said something about the setup I was wrong. So maybe I miscalculated something? Can anyone confirm the above makes sense?
Let's quicklynch someone so we can get to Day 2. Who's up?
And no lynch D1 is basically the most absolute worst thing town could ever do D1
And no lynch D1 is basically the most absolute worst thing town could ever do D1
Time to mass claim.
Then we no lynch.
Come on everybody, let’s do this.
And no lynch D1 is basically the most absolute worst thing town could ever do D1
Time to mass claim.
Then we no lynch.
Come on everybody, let’s do this.
Please use your ICness this day to do productive things instead of jokes please.
Vote places, question people, I don't know; go all out, you're not dying today, that's for sure.
We could fast! How about no lunch today? I know shraeye is down.I'm diggity down.
And no lynch D1 is basically the most absolute worst thing town could ever do D1Naaaah; it'll be fun!!
We could fast! How about no lunch today? I know shraeye is down.
I'm diggity down.
what has happened in other multiball games, do scum try to kill the other team or do they just target town? I would assume they would target each other, thus forcing balance, prisoner's dilemma is strong here.
Can someone answer this? I'm afraid it was buried in my other post:what has happened in other multiball games, do scum try to kill the other team or do they just target town? I would assume they would target each other, thus forcing balance, prisoner's dilemma is strong here.
And no lynch D1 is basically the most absolute worst thing town could ever do D1
And no lynch D1 is basically the most absolute worst thing town could ever do D1
This. We're never no lynching here.
Also there is a ton of weird stuff about this setup, why is the theory stuff people want to talk about in Really Verbose Strategizing phase the most basic stuff?
And no lynch D1 is basically the most absolute worst thing town could ever do D1
This. We're never no lynching here.
Also there is a ton of weird stuff about this setup, why is the theory stuff people want to talk about in Really Verbose Strategizing phase the most basic stuff?
Partly I was just finding it weird that people were bringing up the old No Lynch D1 discussion again and acting like they needed to find some theory stuff to talk about, but then weren't talking about anything interesting.
Like "let's make sure to discuss the setup" "Okay, what about it?" "Ummmm... should we No Lynch?"
It's weird. And don't take this the wrong way, MiX, but it's weird for you to talk about your calculations or whatever and then be speculating on the UB being random, like we'd want a cop to claim just so a UB could inherit it or something? I don't think that's what you're suggesting, but it just seems like you haven't put that much thought into this but are kind of acting like you have. And it is actually possible to have a game with no theory discussion, although probably not with this playerlist I guess.
(Also shraeye is wrong about how bad no lynching is, but that's also not worth getting into, it's just a SOMEONE IS WRONG ON THE INTERNET issue and I'm trying not to have that fight.)
I think that's all I have to say about the setup, but no I wasn't the one pushing us to talk about the setup. I'd rather talk about how faust is scum and no one wants to think about why. I'm curious who picks up on what I'm thinking (other than faust) but it doesn't even seem like people care to think about this as a serious read right now.
What's the downside?
Worried you won't have any scumreads?
No. +0, so forum+5. I hope you can determine where I am with this information...
I mean, you've already claimed so you're the safest person to talk about this with.
Everyone is going to have scumreads anyway, and assuming we aren't lying about scumreads (and town shouldn't be) it's really just about the optimal usage of the role anyway, minus whatever you lose based on the flip of the day's lynch, but that can be worked in as a conditional anyway.
i.e. if we lynch faust and he flips town, I'm really going to suspect e, but if he flips scum his partner is probably UE.
If Garak flips scum, obviously we don't trust that he stuck to this plan and so we have a whole bunch more WIFOM, but then we could never have done anything about that anyway.
I think that's all I have to say about the setup, but no I wasn't the one pushing us to talk about the setup. I'd rather talk about how faust is scum and no one wants to think about why. I'm curious who picks up on what I'm thinking (other than faust) but it doesn't even seem like people care to think about this as a serious read right now.
UE, what do you think of faust so far? Do you have any read one way or another based on anything?
UE, what do you think of faust so far? Do you have any read one way or another based on anything?
Slight town in one light, slight scum in another.
Does the Universal Backup inherit access to the Ferengi neighborhood if a Ferengi is the first to die?
Probably because I'm here and raerae is here and both of us think nolynch is viable. I remain unconvinced by math (google the McNamara fallacy) or by people simply saying "We are never doing this. It's the worst." (google 'proof by assertion')And no lynch D1 is basically the most absolute worst thing town could ever do D1
This. We're never no lynching here.
Also there is a ton of weird stuff about this setup, why is the theory stuff people want to talk about in Really Verbose Strategizing phase the most basic stuff?
Probably because I'm here and raerae is here and both of us think nolynch is viable. I remain unconvinced by math (google the McNamara fallacy) or by people simply saying "We are never doing this. It's the worst." (google 'proof by assertion')And no lynch D1 is basically the most absolute worst thing town could ever do D1
This. We're never no lynching here.
Also there is a ton of weird stuff about this setup, why is the theory stuff people want to talk about in Really Verbose Strategizing phase the most basic stuff?
Embrace the possibility of a Day1 no lynch, it's more fun than you think.
Nope; but I'll never stop trying.
This is some really obvious stuff that applies to Cops in every game, but ok, we have a newbie I suppose.
- Cops should aim for their scumreads rather than townreads, innocents are at best half useless and possibly completely useless
- Cops should only claim results on a guilty or if they are about to be lynched
GARAKis plain bad advice. Bus Driver should only ever be used to protect a claimed Cop or IC. So target them, swap with another player (that you think is scum). The whole "target 2 scummy players" thing gives scum way too much leeway to use it in an anti-town manner. And if everyone understands that this may happen with claimed Cops, then that means think twice about targeting them.
Nope; but I'll never stop trying.
what's going on
i.e. if we lynch faust and he flips town, I'm really going to suspect e, but if he flips scum his partner is probably UE.
what's going on
I'm finishing up my metaread on e and I wanted to go to faust next...
The odds we have on a first day lynch are anywhere from 22-33% depending on the loadout we got. These SEEM like decent stab in the dark odds, but right now it seems unlikely that we'll reach any sort of agreement on who to target. I'm all for experimenting with no lynch and hoping scum bump toes in the night.Hi! Obligatory round of newbie stuff:
what's going on
Robz is playing up his meta in thread, so likely town
UoS is trying real hard to be helpful, so likely town
There are a bunch of people I haven't played with before, at least one is likely scum, probably MiX, but let's lynch them another time
I created a scum read on faust for fun
Oh and someone claimed something that means absolutely nothing.
How does the SK Strongman interact with Bus Driving?
It would be nice if all role clarifications would be added to the setup post for easy reference.[/list]
Easier to get dead scum if we lynch, therefore lynching is good. Yes, I do stand by that.
Can anyone tell me what scum!raerae does? I'm finishing up my metaread on e and I wanted to go to faust next...
The opening setup post has been updated with a bunch of role clarifications. Never run an open setup, friends. It's entirely too much work. Vote count this afternoon.
hey guys, was moving to another apartment and now I finally am here
The odds we have on a first day lynch are anywhere from 22-33% depending on the loadout we got. These SEEM like decent stab in the dark odds, but right now it seems unlikely that we'll reach any sort of agreement on who to target. I'm all for experimenting with no lynch and hoping scum bump toes in the night.
One more question- what happens if Bareil is scum and inherits the copping ability for his own faction?
(Well he can use it but it won't tell him anything he doesn't already know...)A Changeling UB could use it to find Odo!
what's going on
Robz is playing up his meta in thread, so likely town
UoS is trying real hard to be helpful, so likely town
Oh and someone claimed something that means absolutely nothing.
MiX sheeping e's townread seems scummier than e's very insistent townread to me.
i.e. if we lynch faust and he flips town, I'm really going to suspect e, but if he flips scum his partner is probably UE.
Is that just a random example or do you actually believe that?
yeah, I don't want to lynch MiX, not yet. Robz lately is paying his meta in the thread trying to seem town but usually ends up as scum. hmmm
I fail to see why Garak should target 2 scumreads: shouldn't it be 1 townread and 1 scumread? Otherwise it's unlikely scum will target a scummy-looking person, right? Maybe the multiball makes that a thing?
Part of my brain still thinks Robz and I are the same person, it's weird.
I subbed in for Robz in the last game, and kept rereading the game. Not that Robz said a lot, but it gets in your head.
I fail to see why Garak should target 2 scumreads: shouldn't it be 1 townread and 1 scumread? Otherwise it's unlikely scum will target a scummy-looking person, right? Maybe the multiball makes that a thing?
Exactly, scum would prefer to kill the other scumteam. Coincidentally town would prefer for scum to kill the other scum, so what scum really want is to kill the other scum while not getting killed themselves.
Protecting Jake or a Cop is also a reasonable plan, but in the case of the IC, we don't really care about other actions getting redirected (and the other player should be top scumread) and in the case of a cop I'd say your read of the cop should trump protecting them. Remember, there is no guarantee cops are town and no guarantee town cops are a threat to any scum actually in the game.
I know I'll be inclined to let a cop that claims too early die and try to busvig scum, and I think we should allow Garak, assuming I'm not Garak, to have that option and set up an easy crumbing strategy that can be followed without agreeing to it.
That 2nd point is something I've struggled with all my life, going back to like 4th grade group projects.
If you can't explain a good idea in 2 sentences some people stop paying attention and decide not to cooperate. Drives me crazy.
GARAKis plain bad advice. Bus Driver should only ever be used to protect a claimed Cop or IC. So target them, swap with another player (that you think is scum).
Now that <ongoing game> is over, I can just give faust all the townpoints I want, because they're pretty much doing the same here, at least from what I remember. I'll need to reread that game to get a feel of everyone who was there.
On the other hand, I gained a scumread on Uncle, but that's irrelevent, so whatever.
I was rereading scum!faust games (since I already knew some town!faust games), and my conclusion is that I have no idea how to read him. He just seems to do the same thing as town and scum.
On the other hand, I don't like Robz' vote on e where faust is a clearly better wagon (well, it's bigger, and he wants D1 to end right?), so until he doesn't go there:
FoS: Robz888 (treat this as a vote that won't lower faust's wagon)
That vote might be contradictory with my townread on faust, but I actually have no reason to believe that's not what scum!faust does, since I have...no idea what scum!faust's tells are. Does anyone know?
My few thoughts so far:
-ash is Towny
-UoS is probably Towny
-shraeye is scummy
-count me against no-lynching
Vote: shraeye
No lynch is very bad, but I don't want to welcome shraeye back with a day 1 lynch. Same for raerae.
Is shraeye scummy for suggesting a no lunch?
No lynch is very bad, but I don't want to welcome shraeye back with a day 1 lynch. Same for raerae.
Naw, let's kill him, I just want to know why first.
No lynch is very bad, but I don't want to welcome shraeye back with a day 1 lynch. Same for raerae.
Naw, let's kill him, I just want to know why first.
Bahaha
Priorities, amirite?
Nope; but I'll never stop trying.
Even if No Lynch was a viable option, you shouldn't try to convince people of it, that'll destroy D1 if no one wants a lynch. Since it's not even a good option, it's anti-town to propose that idea. Come back near deadline, then it will be useful.
Easier to get dead scum if we lynch, therefore lynching is good. Yes, I do stand by that.Not just you, but others as well, quote statistics like they're Wayne Gretsky (you miss 100% of the shots you don't take). sure the probability of a random choice hitting scum is 22%-33%, and the probability of a no-lynch hitting scum is 0%. But that's not the point.
The odds we have on a first day lynch are anywhere from 22-33% depending on the loadout we got. These SEEM like decent stab in the dark odds, but right now it seems unlikely that we'll reach any sort of agreement on who to target. I'm all for experimenting with no lynch and hoping scum bump toes in the night.
It seems unlikely that we’ll reach a consensus, yet it usually happens. Kind of wild! We still have lots of time to interact and pay attention so even if it seems impossible that half of us would agree to lynch one person now, we will likely get there by the deadline. Partly because most of us (based on my limited knowledge of a handful of games) will want a lynch, so as it gets closer to the deadline there will be some converging. And how we converge (or not) helps us have more to analyze in D2.
yeah, I don't want to lynch MiX, not yet. Robz lately is paying his meta in the thread trying to seem town but usually ends up as scum. hmmmBoooo for the lazy "read". You have read enough games to realize Robz playing up is meta is what he does. It's a Robz-tell. So, yes, he hasn't been abducted and replaced by weasels.
vote: 2.7 he doesn’t feel as genuine as he normally does to me. Hasn’t come across as towny and he normally does pretty early.
I disagreed with your first set of recommendations, and can't figure out what this means at all. So put me in the camp of people who are now disinterested in following Umbrage-strategy.I fail to see why Garak should target 2 scumreads: shouldn't it be 1 townread and 1 scumread? Otherwise it's unlikely scum will target a scummy-looking person, right? Maybe the multiball makes that a thing?I know I'll be inclined to let a cop that claims too early die and try to busvig scum, and I think we should allow Garak, assuming I'm not Garak, to have that option and set up an easy crumbing strategy that can be followed without agreeing to it.
Why is faust scum? Why is everyone assuming this? I see nothing, but I'll reread his past games to be sure.Everything else felt reactionary, but THIS is an interesting piece.
Why is faust scum? Why is everyone assuming this? I see nothing, but I'll reread his past games to be sure.Still you are voting for me...
See, that one I don't buy. If Eddie was scum and I his partner, and we decided to claim Gul Dukat, why on earth would I want to steal his thunder by proposing the plan before he ever had a chance to post?i.e. if we lynch faust and he flips town, I'm really going to suspect e, but if he flips scum his partner is probably UE.
Is that just a random example or do you actually believe that?
It was a semi-random example, I wanted an example and I tried to think of something that kind of made sense off the top of my head, was sort of hoping someone would jump on me for "lining up mislynches" over it. On reflection I don't feel like e's vote on you is any scummier if you're town, or really particularly scummy at all. But the UE as a possible partner interaction thing is more of a real thing I'd suspect upon your scum flip, but like a point against rather than vote-worthy all by itself.
No, scum wants to kill players at night that they cannot get lynched during the Day.I fail to see why Garak should target 2 scumreads: shouldn't it be 1 townread and 1 scumread? Otherwise it's unlikely scum will target a scummy-looking person, right? Maybe the multiball makes that a thing?
Exactly, scum would prefer to kill the other scumteam. Coincidentally town would prefer for scum to kill the other scum, so what scum really want is to kill the other scum while not getting killed themselves.
They're not. If a person is scummy, scum would much prefer to keep them around and lynch them the next Day, because that is one more lynch not on their team and might even give them towncred.GARAKis plain bad advice. Bus Driver should only ever be used to protect a claimed Cop or IC. So target them, swap with another player (that you think is scum).
Is your advice necessarily any better given that scummy players are likely to be targeted for an NK by another scum faction?
Hey DatSwan!
If I told you there was scum in {mcmcs, Glooble, Umbrage, Awaclus, Jimmmm}, would you think I was right or wrong?
Hated works until it would take that many votes to work in total, like when three people are left alive, as far as I understand it.
Hey DatSwan!
If I told you there was scum in {mcmcs, Glooble, Umbrage, Awaclus, Jimmmm}, would you think I was right or wrong?
No, scum wants to kill players at night that they cannot get lynched during the Day.I fail to see why Garak should target 2 scumreads: shouldn't it be 1 townread and 1 scumread? Otherwise it's unlikely scum will target a scummy-looking person, right? Maybe the multiball makes that a thing?
Exactly, scum would prefer to kill the other scumteam. Coincidentally town would prefer for scum to kill the other scum, so what scum really want is to kill the other scum while not getting killed themselves.
I think faust is wrong here. In Multiball (and games with know night kills other than the scum team’s), scum want to remove that threat first. Lynchable vs. not is secondary. So I think here hitting “other scum or vig” is scum’s preference.
The problem with bus driving important roles or towny players is that you are providing an accidental lane to them being targeted at night, depending on your reads. Say you drive a cop with a scumread and different scum are shooting for said scum read (or just using crumbs to go for the cop).
At the least, you need everyone to crumb a la snow’s idea, to provide cover.
I think directing the drive is a fool’s errand.
Here's the deal with no-lynch.Nope; but I'll never stop trying.
Even if No Lynch was a viable option, you shouldn't try to convince people of it, that'll destroy D1 if no one wants a lynch. Since it's not even a good option, it's anti-town to propose that idea. Come back near deadline, then it will be useful.
I'm not trying to get people to vote:nolynch right this minute. What I am heavily suggesting and will never stop suggesting is that no lynch is a viable end to Day1. It should be in our arsenal. There are 18 viable ends to the day (because lynching UncleEurope on Day1 is not an option).
There are people who are soooooo against no-lynch that they will literally vote for their biggest townread to ensure that "at least some lynch goes through." That's extremist and absurd. Less extreme, but equally absurd is people who will vote for regular townreads all in the name of #mustlynch.Easier to get dead scum if we lynch, therefore lynching is good. Yes, I do stand by that.Not just you, but others as well, quote statistics like they're Wayne Gretsky (you miss 100% of the shots you don't take). sure the probability of a random choice hitting scum is 22%-33%, and the probability of a no-lynch hitting scum is 0%. But that's not the point.
A) LYNCHES ARE NOT RANDOM (I literally can't stress this enough)
B) people act like the only metric worth measuring is is-scum-dead. There is value in having town alive, and that has to be factored in if you insist on only using math.
WestCoastDidds has a good point, but also mentions a wrong one people haveThe odds we have on a first day lynch are anywhere from 22-33% depending on the loadout we got. These SEEM like decent stab in the dark odds, but right now it seems unlikely that we'll reach any sort of agreement on who to target. I'm all for experimenting with no lynch and hoping scum bump toes in the night.
It seems unlikely that we’ll reach a consensus, yet it usually happens. Kind of wild! We still have lots of time to interact and pay attention so even if it seems impossible that half of us would agree to lynch one person now, we will likely get there by the deadline. Partly because most of us (based on my limited knowledge of a handful of games) will want a lynch, so as it gets closer to the deadline there will be some converging. And how we converge (or not) helps us have more to analyze in D2.
We could very much reach a consensus; it happens a lot. But please please please PLEASE for the love of all things coffee-related, do not converge JUST so a lynch will happen. There could be days in the future where it is more essential to lynch, many factors affect stuff like this. But Day1, in an 18 player game, with 2 scumteams, and multiple roles that can save....that's checks every single box on the "is it reasonable to nolynch" survey.
It INFURIATES me that people see ~25% vs. 0% and then just mindlessly echo "ALWAYS lynch, ALWAYS lynch, ALWAYS lynch". The issue is much more intricate than ~25% vs 0%.
Ok, that's off my chest. I swear I won't bring up no-lynching again for a while.
Your logic makes perfect sense in regards to the here and now, but go and look at any town victory ever that goes through Day 4 - Day 6+.... it all comes back to how people interact with one and other. To remove the first of those interactions, the most purest of those interactions... is just I mean a bad idea.This is a gross misrepresentation. shraeye explicitly said that he does not want us to stop interaction, or push through a no lynch right away.
Anyway, care to guess why I voted for faust?
You missed the fact that he unvoted Uncle, didn't you?
Now, serious talk: anyone who knows Robz's meta, does he analyze setups? Does he like to break setups? Is he usually good at theory talk in general?
So, uncle claimed...well that makes him unlynchable, so he might as well be the IC for this day, right?
Vote: raerae, I happen to like e's reason to townread shraeye, and your vote seems like a good way to not play RVS, since he's not dying today.
And why can't shraeye be our lunch today? He seems just as on the table as everybody else?
A) LYNCHES ARE NOT RANDOM (I literally can't stress this enough)
B) people act like the only metric worth measuring is is-scum-dead. There is value in having town alive, and that has to be factored in if you insist on only using math. .
My few thoughts so far:
-ash is Towny
-UoS is probably Towny
-shraeye is scummy
-count me against no-lynching
Vote: shraeye
How can you assert towniness based on what was at that point two in-game posts? :-PIf it is possible that 200 000 posts give you an indication of a person's alignment, then it is equally possible that 2 do.
I'd rather talk about how faust is scum and no one wants to think about why. I'm curious who picks up on what I'm thinking (other than faust) but it doesn't even seem like people care to think about this as a serious read right now.
Vote: Space
For his "how can you townread someone with 2 posts", which is cleverly his meta while justifying lack of reads through D1. Oh, and to answer it, townreads are relative, so if ash did something mildly towny and nothing scummy, that would be enough justification for a townread.
While I'm at it...how come no-one mentioned ash!plans? Severely dissapointed.
Vote: raerae, I happen to like e's reason to townread shraeye, and your vote seems like a good way to not play RVS, since he's not dying today.
And why can't shraeye be our lunch today? He seems just as on the table as everybody else?
@MiX, you never answered this, why can't shraeye be our lynch today?
PPE 1: Because I have an uncanny ability to see the future; with this, I can predict that e won't flip his townread, and I expect to strenghten mine as well. I might be reading too much into this, being early D1 and all, but I use all information we have available.
Vote: Space
For his "how can you townread someone with 2 posts", which is cleverly his meta while justifying lack of reads through D1.
Vote: Space
For his "how can you townread someone with 2 posts", which is cleverly his meta while justifying lack of reads through D1.
How is it that you claim to know my meta, and yet manage to misgender me twice in one sentence? Either you've read my play before, in which case you'll have seen umpteen variations on the statement that I am not at all okay with "he/him" pronouns, or you haven't and are just looking for excuses to throw votes around.
Vote: MiX
I feel like one Ferengi should claim and tell us what faction isn't in the game. Obligatory WIFOM statement following a role point: that Ferengi doesn't have to be me, if I were in fact a Ferengi.
joth, in your Martok point, you mention the doctoring doesn't stop people from dying. That includes the Doctor, too, right?
I feel like one Ferengi should claim and tell us what faction isn't in the game. Obligatory WIFOM statement following a role point: that Ferengi doesn't have to be me, if I were in fact a Ferengi.Why do you need to know what faction isn't in the game?
I feel like one Ferengi should claim and tell us what faction isn't in the game. Obligatory WIFOM statement following a role point: that Ferengi doesn't have to be me, if I were in fact a Ferengi.Why do you need to know what faction isn't in the game?
I don't think this is worth further exposing Cop for.
joth, in your Martok point, you mention the doctoring doesn't stop people from dying. That includes the Doctor, too, right?
Hey DatSwan!
If I told you there was scum in {mcmcs, Glooble, Umbrage, Awaclus, Jimmmm}, would you think I was right or wrong?
wait I want follow up now that I have thought about it.
Same question back at you.
This is true. Ash should know that. Welcome to the top of my suspicion list.I feel like one Ferengi should claim and tell us what faction isn't in the game. Obligatory WIFOM statement following a role point: that Ferengi doesn't have to be me, if I were in fact a Ferengi.Why do you need to know what faction isn't in the game?
I don't think this is worth further exposing Cop for.
If we were in fact able to get that information (which we can't) it would honestly help scum more than town at this point. If scum the scum team knows that the only other scum is a bulletproof sk, for example, they're going to focus on killing town PRs instead of targeting their own scum reads.
If we were in fact able to get that information (which we can't)This looks like you realize, like ash did, that the info is "not in QT" instead of "not in game".
Although if there is at least one scum among the Ferengi, then that scum team already know the exact composition.But this looks like you still think, like ash originally did, that they know which faction isn't in the game.
I'm happy to walk you through my though process. For the first post- the Ferengi only know what alignment one of the Ferengi are.
Glooble's explanation is consistent with what I would expect of "ash is wrong: even if this was true, he forgot about one thing. Oh, but that's not true, right. But even if it was, there's another thing that's wrong, so, yeah".
@Glooble, do you like setup talk and/or do you think you're good at it? Do you think you need to work harder D1 because of last game?
PPE 2: Ok now I'm actually confused...let's stop talking about hypotheticals that aren't true.
See, that one I don't buy. If Eddie was scum and I his partner, and we decided to claim Gul Dukat, why on earth would I want to steal his thunder by proposing the plan before he ever had a chance to post?
What’s not random about a day one lynch? People form reads on the flimsiest evidence and cling to them. I don’t trust my own day one reads and I can’t trust anyone else’s because I have no evidence anyone else is town. It might not be completely random, but it’s pretty close.
@Jimmmmm, would you consider yourself a good D1 player? What's your scum meta?
While I'm at it...how come no-one mentioned ash!plans? Severely dissapointed.
My #347 sounds harsh, but I actually like Jimmmm and think he's a smart guy. Just typically unengaged until crunchtime (and liable to being mislynched for it.)
My #347 sounds harsh, but I actually like Jimmmm and think he's a smart guy. Just typically unengaged until crunchtime (and liable to being mislynched for it.)
I've realise what I really need to get into a game is for someone to come out gunning for me. It gives me something to focus on apart from "this is a big game with lots of people and I don't even know where to start".
What’s not random about a day one lynch? People form reads on the flimsiest evidence and cling to them. I don’t trust my own day one reads and I can’t trust anyone else’s because I have no evidence anyone else is town. It might not be completely random, but it’s pretty close.
STOP BEING COMMITTED TO MAKING DAY 1 USELESS.
@Jimmmmm, would you consider yourself a good D1 player? What's your scum meta?
My #347 sounds harsh, but I actually like Jimmmm and think he's a smart guy. Just typically unengaged until crunchtime (and liable to being mislynched for it.)
I've realise what I really need to get into a game is for someone to come out gunning for me. It gives me something to focus on apart from "this is a big game with lots of people and I don't even know where to start".
That's actually enough for me to
Vote: Jimmmmmmm
Let's see what you got.
My #347 sounds harsh, but I actually like Jimmmm and think he's a smart guy. Just typically unengaged until crunchtime (and liable to being mislynched for it.)
I've realise what I really need to get into a game is for someone to come out gunning for me. It gives me something to focus on apart from "this is a big game with lots of people and I don't even know where to start".
That's actually enough for me to
Vote: Jimmmmmmm
Let's see what you got.
A vote is not gunning for me.
What’s not random about a day one lynch? People form reads on the flimsiest evidence and cling to them. I don’t trust my own day one reads and I can’t trust anyone else’s because I have no evidence anyone else is town. It might not be completely random, but it’s pretty close.
STOP BEING COMMITTED TO MAKING DAY 1 USELESS.
Stop misrepresenting my quotes.
What’s not random about a day one lynch? People form reads on the flimsiest evidence and cling to them. I don’t trust my own day one reads and I can’t trust anyone else’s because I have no evidence anyone else is town. It might not be completely random, but it’s pretty close.
STOP BEING COMMITTED TO MAKING DAY 1 USELESS.
UoS is town.
Stop misrepresenting my quotes.
What else do you feel I've misrepresented?
MiX is hard to follow as town and presumably hard to follow as scum. I think he thinks differently than a lot of us.
Right now I think he'll be one of the players that's much easier to sort once we have some flips.
I'd say I don't want to lynch him Day 1 unless he basically scumclaims, but then we get into the don't lynch newbies Day 1, don't lynch good players Day 1, don't lynch hard-to-sort (Awaclus, MiX, Jimmm, Robz) Day 1 and pretty soon we can't lynch anyone.
My #347 sounds harsh, but I actually like Jimmmm and think he's a smart guy. Just typically unengaged until crunchtime (and liable to being mislynched for it.)
I've realise what I really need to get into a game is for someone to come out gunning for me. It gives me something to focus on apart from "this is a big game with lots of people and I don't even know where to start".
That's actually enough for me to
Vote: Jimmmmmmm
Let's see what you got.
A vote is not gunning for me.
From my PoV:
- If you're town, you need an incentive to play D1. A vote on you means other town/scum can vote on you, creating a sizeable wagon. I think that would force you to pay attention to defend yourself, thus generate more pro-town content from you.
- If you're scum, you need to feel some pressure, even if it's just a vote now, others might join the wagon, forcing you to actually play D1, which, hopefully, makes you drop some scumslips or useful interactions that'll be useful for future days.
So it's strictly better for me to vote for you. Unless I misunderstood what gunning means (maybe it's just someone saying "YOU'RE SCUM YOU'RE SCUM HERE'S 50 REASONS WHY" but I hope not because I can't do that...), this seems to be foolproof, right?
Like if a player’s general style makes them hard to read, that player is a liability as town and especially dangerous as scum. Sounds like a great day 1 lynch to me.
MiX confuses me frequently. This is not all that interesting necessarily, but I do find it happening over and over again so I am going to say something now in case it starts happening when it matters. I find him really hard to follow. I don't think I think the same way he does about things, and it seems different than a wordsy person v. mathsy person distinction. I wonder if the experience of playing really fast games is significant? I am also troubled by the fact that he pays close attention to some posts and then glosses others. Why the selective attention paying? But he's new and I'd rather be friendlier than not at the outset, but still seems not quite right.
Like if a player’s general style makes them hard to read, that player is a liability as town and especially dangerous as scum. Sounds like a great day 1 lynch to me.
Like if a player’s general style makes them hard to read, that player is a liability as town and especially dangerous as scum. Sounds like a great day 1 lynch to me.
As one of these players, I don't really understand why hard-to-read players are a liability as town. They would be if their reads are bad or if they're anti town, but being hard to read is not an anti-town ability, as Awaclus would surely tell you. Oh, unless he thinks he's easy to get townread as town, in which case he's incredibly wrong.
I don't always come off as scummy.
Like if a player’s general style makes them hard to read, that player is a liability as town and especially dangerous as scum. Sounds like a great day 1 lynch to me.
joth, in your Martok point, you mention the doctoring doesn't stop people from dying. That includes the Doctor, too, right?
I don't understand the question. Anyone who targets Martok with a nightkill gets killed, whether or not that nightkill happens. Unless they get roleblocked. People that target him with something else are fine.
I feel like one Ferengi should claim and tell us what faction isn't in the game. Obligatory WIFOM statement following a role point: that Ferengi doesn't have to be me, if I were in fact a Ferengi.Why do you need to know what faction isn't in the game?
I don't think this is worth further exposing Cop for.
I'm happy to walk you through my though process. For the first post- the Ferengi only know what alignment one of the Ferengi are. That could be the alignment not in the game, if that's the only one that fits the bill. But all a town Ferengi would know is one alignment that no one in the QT has. I saw that Ash had realized this, but I also wanted to point out that if Ash's original assumption was true, i.e. that the Ferengi knew which alignment wasn't in the gaqme, it would still be bad for them to say because that knowledge helps scum more than it helps town.
After I made that post, it occurred to me that if at least one Ferengi was scum, they would already know which alignment wasn't in the game, since they have an additional piece of information- their own alignment. Which would be an argument in favor of sharing that information with town. But its all moot since a town Ferengi wouldn't have that info in the first place.
Your logic makes perfect sense in regards to the here and now, but go and look at any town victory ever that goes through Day 4 - Day 6+.... it all comes back to how people interact with one and other. To remove the first of those interactions, the most purest of those interactions... is just I mean a bad idea.This is a gross misrepresentation. shraeye explicitly said that he does not want us to stop interaction, or push through a no lynch right away.
The thunder that comes from him claiming out of his own volition and would possibly give him towncred.See, that one I don't buy. If Eddie was scum and I his partner, and we decided to claim Gul Dukat, why on earth would I want to steal his thunder by proposing the plan before he ever had a chance to post?
What thunder would you be stealing exactly? There's no universe in which anyone fakeclaims Dukat, the only question is alignment, not role.
Also, I had somehow missed that the serial killer, if we have one, would be full BP rather than 1-shot, which does indeed change things although I'm not entirely sure how. Surviving an NK is a sort of soft Changeling cop for scum. Either way it doesn't change how I would use Bus Driver, successfully targeting one of the 2 scum making an NK turns Bus Driver into a vig shot, and there are two chances to guess right, with the other top guess being vigged.It doesn't really though. If the NK originally targeted one of your scum reads, then it already was like a vig shot.
Okay, since we're done playing my little game here, I may as well give my reasoning:I wanted Dukat dead for strategy reasons. Lynching Dukat means not lynching a useful PR. It also means removing a liability. Of course the UB changes the first part, and makes it so that it largely does not matter whom we lynch from a PR perspective.
Faust is one of the players who gets the utility of Day 1. And his Dukat claiming talk is fine, but the desire to lynch UE didn't read like a reaction test to me, for a minute before he realized it was insanely anti-town for the UB to inherit Dukat's power if the UB is town, he wanted Dukat dead for strategy reasons.
And yeah, Dukat isn't likely to be the NK but he's sortable by reads later on. If we are possibly going into LYLO in the next day later in the game and don't decide we collectively trust him, it makes sense to lynch Unceeurope then, but doing it in the first couple real life days of Day 1 eliminates a lot of the utility Faust knows there can be in Day 1. And I think Town!faust realizes that.
It didn't really. MiX provided a lot of info and was active. There was a lot that could have been analyzed later on. That's really not the sort of player I consider hard to read. And noone to my knowledge made that argument in the other game. He was lynched because people perceived him as scummy.Like if a player’s general style makes them hard to read, that player is a liability as town and especially dangerous as scum. Sounds like a great day 1 lynch to me.
I'd generally agree but that got MiX killed D1 last game. I'm interested in letting MiX live one more day if only to see what he's like D2.
Wondering - what do people think their Chickenwarlord votes will achieve?
Make sure you make a post in the forums somewhere outside the forum games section, this will prevent having to do a captcha each time you post.Hopefully my signature is now somewhat searchable for clarity.
Would be nice for finding your posts if you added you ShuffleIT Username or a distinguishable signature to your profile.
Can you tell us about your prior experience and what your preferred pronouns are?
@Chicken, at this point I feel like voting for you to see if you wake up, I know that in my first game, I wanted to make a big impression, I believe you should try to do the same: it's pro town, it sets you up for future days, and it helps for future games if those ever exist. So overall it's a pretty good deal!I mean Day 1 is really difficult to get a good read out of people, but if we want post super unsubstantiated suspicions I'd be willing to wager that Ashersky and Faust are town.
Other people have posted.Wondering - what do people think their Chickenwarlord votes will achieve?
Why is voting for them different than voting for any other player?
Vote: LaLight
This will be 3 scum games in a row, right?
M120, RMM51, and this game. They are on a streak! You can beat WW's streak, I know it!
I understand your willingness to No Lynch, chicken, as that tends to be optimal in primitive setups, where the cop's super important. This is less true here, where, since every single post is saved, you want everyone to interact early, to generate information useful in later days. The easiest way to do this is to (at least try to) lynch someone, so people have to put down reads and stand by their words and actions.It's true that the prospect of all 3 role cops gleaning information from the first night was at least partially on my mind. However, I'm now realizing that they're not all necessarily town-aligned and the fact that we might not even get anybody to step forward with that info is pretty likely.
@UoS: if scum fails to NK, it could also be scum!Kira (apart from doc/bus driver).
vote: 2.7 he doesn’t feel as genuine as he normally does to me. Hasn’t come across as towny and he normally does pretty early.
yeah, I don't want to lynch MiX, not yet. Robz lately is paying his meta in the thread trying to seem town but usually ends up as scum. hmmm
So why are you scumreading Robz, Lalight?
ok, I'm pretty much finished with the reread. There's a lot of people and I struggle to wrap it all up, but I have some townreads and couple of scumreads, top one of each is 2.7
Other people have posted.Wondering - what do people think their Chickenwarlord votes will achieve?
Why is voting for them different than voting for any other player?
1. Please stop misrepresenting what I say.Other people have posted.Wondering - what do people think their Chickenwarlord votes will achieve?
Why is voting for them different than voting for any other player?
He'd made 2 in-game posts by then! Isn't that equivalent to 200 000 posts for determining his alignment? :-)
vote: 2.7 he doesn’t feel as genuine as he normally does to me. Hasn’t come across as towny and he normally does pretty early.
This is my thought as well as I am rereading
vote: 2.71828.....
@faust, what makes you think Swan didn't get a scumread from chicken?The fact that he didn't say that he did.
Wait that can happen? ... apparently yes. That would be hilarious but also a bit broken. I assume joth would reroll it.I'm happy to walk you through my though process. For the first post- the Ferengi only know what alignment one of the Ferengi are. That could be the alignment not in the game, if that's the only one that fits the bill. But all a town Ferengi would know is one alignment that no one in the QT has. I saw that Ash had realized this, but I also wanted to point out that if Ash's original assumption was true, i.e. that the Ferengi knew which alignment wasn't in the gaqme, it would still be bad for them to say because that knowledge helps scum more than it helps town.
After I made that post, it occurred to me that if at least one Ferengi was scum, they would already know which alignment wasn't in the game, since they have an additional piece of information- their own alignment. Which would be an argument in favor of sharing that information with town. But its all moot since a town Ferengi wouldn't have that info in the first place.
I think Glooble ended up thinking he was wrong somewhere, but he’s kind of right. If scum is in the neighborhood and is told there is no town in the hood, they know the exact setup alignment wise.
Wrong: because there's 4 Ferengi: UB also included in the no-town.Still 2 scum from team 1 could be Ferengi and the third a UB, and they would not know whether the third Ferengi was SK or not.
I guess my vote on 2.7 was more useful. Vote: 2.7I guess my vote is still useful!
You guys are hilarious. The alignment the Ferengi are informed about cannot be Station. If the setup rolled such that all scum teams were represented in the Ferengi + UB, it would call for a reroll.That's ... surprising. I mean 2 scumteams in there would mean that they still could have been informed about the third (non-existing) scumteam, and thus would not know each other's alignment. But this statement pretty definitely says that there is one town in Ferengi + UB. Which probably does not help us much, but still.
vote: 2.7 he doesn’t feel as genuine as he normally does to me. Hasn’t come across as towny and he normally does pretty early.
This is my thought as well as I am rereading
vote: 2.71828.....
Why? I don't think I've seen cases against e and he seems pretty town to me. Also, sheeping a meh, if not bad, vote is just...lazy, as (I think) Didds put it. Scumpoints!
I also have to say that I've been reading the QTs of M121, and I saw this in the mason one...
LaLight: "...By the way MiX when you read this, sorry!"
That is so adorable. FoS: LaLight, because having 2 votes is double the power!
@faust, what makes you think Swan didn't get a scumread from chicken?
idk, I am pretty good at gut reads and e has a lot of content but none of it stroke me as townie.I never knew scums strokes your gut differently than town does!
idk, I am pretty good at gut reads and e has a lot of content but none of it stroke me as townie.I never knew scums strokes your gut differently than town does!
Wait a minute, I don't know what I was thinking before. There is always a scum faction not in the game. If every scum faction is represented in the Ferengi, they are told the faction not in the game. Never town. But also, not necessarily grounds for a re-roll. Apologies for getting that wrong before.Well thanks I guess, but we still know that this did not happen as otherwise you would not have messed it up.
It didn't really. MiX provided a lot of info and was active. There was a lot that could have been analyzed later on. That's really not the sort of player I consider hard to read. And noone to my knowledge made that argument in the other game. He was lynched because people perceived him as scummy.Like if a player’s general style makes them hard to read, that player is a liability as town and especially dangerous as scum. Sounds like a great day 1 lynch to me.
I'd generally agree but that got MiX killed D1 last game. I'm interested in letting MiX live one more day if only to see what he's like D2.
In that case there is really nothing special about MiX in that regard.It didn't really. MiX provided a lot of info and was active. There was a lot that could have been analyzed later on. That's really not the sort of player I consider hard to read. And noone to my knowledge made that argument in the other game. He was lynched because people perceived him as scummy.Like if a player’s general style makes them hard to read, that player is a liability as town and especially dangerous as scum. Sounds like a great day 1 lynch to me.
I'd generally agree but that got MiX killed D1 last game. I'm interested in letting MiX live one more day if only to see what he's like D2.
I was looking at "hard to read" as in not obviously of one alignment. I think you (or Joseph maybe?) thought he was town all the way and others read him as scum.
In that case there is really nothing special about MiX in that regard.It didn't really. MiX provided a lot of info and was active. There was a lot that could have been analyzed later on. That's really not the sort of player I consider hard to read. And noone to my knowledge made that argument in the other game. He was lynched because people perceived him as scummy.Like if a player’s general style makes them hard to read, that player is a liability as town and especially dangerous as scum. Sounds like a great day 1 lynch to me.
I'd generally agree but that got MiX killed D1 last game. I'm interested in letting MiX live one more day if only to see what he's like D2.
I was looking at "hard to read" as in not obviously of one alignment. I think you (or Joseph maybe?) thought he was town all the way and others read him as scum.
In that case there is really nothing special about MiX in that regard.It didn't really. MiX provided a lot of info and was active. There was a lot that could have been analyzed later on. That's really not the sort of player I consider hard to read. And noone to my knowledge made that argument in the other game. He was lynched because people perceived him as scummy.Like if a player’s general style makes them hard to read, that player is a liability as town and especially dangerous as scum. Sounds like a great day 1 lynch to me.
I'd generally agree but that got MiX killed D1 last game. I'm interested in letting MiX live one more day if only to see what he's like D2.
I was looking at "hard to read" as in not obviously of one alignment. I think you (or Joseph maybe?) thought he was town all the way and others read him as scum.
I feel like you're being difficult here on purpose. You know his posting style is divisive and that's what I was getting at. Regardless, I'm standing by not lynching him D1 barring any obvious slips.
In that case there is really nothing special about MiX in that regard.It didn't really. MiX provided a lot of info and was active. There was a lot that could have been analyzed later on. That's really not the sort of player I consider hard to read. And noone to my knowledge made that argument in the other game. He was lynched because people perceived him as scummy.Like if a player’s general style makes them hard to read, that player is a liability as town and especially dangerous as scum. Sounds like a great day 1 lynch to me.
I'd generally agree but that got MiX killed D1 last game. I'm interested in letting MiX live one more day if only to see what he's like D2.
I was looking at "hard to read" as in not obviously of one alignment. I think you (or Joseph maybe?) thought he was town all the way and others read him as scum.
I feel like you're being difficult here on purpose. You know his posting style is divisive and that's what I was getting at. Regardless, I'm standing by not lynching him D1 barring any obvious slips.
You did say "hard to read" was not obviously being of one alignment. That's just asking to get answered like faust did. And what do you mean divisive, can you point out examples? I'm really trying not to do the same thing as the first game and I wanted to know what I did wrong then/now.
So you pick who the Ferengi/UB are before randomizing what the Ferengi know? Let's assume there's 2/2 scum in the ferengi/UB: if you were to roll for Ferengi to know there's no Station-aligned, would you reroll all roles, or just the info (thus eventually making said info be "there's no changeling")?
I believe this may prove useful for probabilities.
Wait a minute, I don't know what I was thinking before. There is always a scum faction not in the game. If every scum faction is represented in the Ferengi, they are told the faction not in the game. Never town. But also, not necessarily grounds for a re-roll. Apologies for getting that wrong before.Well thanks I guess, but we still know that this did not happen as otherwise you would not have messed it up.
1. Please stop misrepresenting what I say.Other people have posted.Wondering - what do people think their Chickenwarlord votes will achieve?
Why is voting for them different than voting for any other player?
He'd made 2 in-game posts by then! Isn't that equivalent to 200 000 posts for determining his alignment? :-)
2. If they got an alignment read from Chickenwarlord's posts, then that is totally fine and they can say so, it's a valid answer.
I wanted Dukat dead for strategy reasons. Lynching Dukat means not lynching a useful PR. It also means removing a liability. Of course the UB changes the first part, and makes it so that it largely does not matter whom we lynch from a PR perspective.
Much as I like D1s, I also like utilizing setup info to my advantage, and in an open setup if there is a good plan it outweighs reads for me. Especially in multiball where scum can legitimately scumhunt and thus is even harder to catch.
I don't get it; this is the...third?...vote on e which feels like it's just sheeping what I still think is the scummiest reasoning I've seen so far. Sure, metas, I get it. But "feels genuine" is an easy box to pretend somebody no longer is sitting in, since it's all subjective.vote: 2.7 he doesn’t feel as genuine as he normally does to me. Hasn’t come across as towny and he normally does pretty early.
This is my thought as well as I am rereading
vote: 2.71828.....
Why wouldn’t we lynch players who are hard to sort? Granted I’ve played one game with Awaclus, but in that one game 1. He was scum, 2. I kept saying he was scum, 3. People kept saying “nah, that’s just Awaclus being Awaclus har har.”There is merit to seeing if somebody's actions are out of character. Like if raerae is sarcastic, and people say "because she's so sarcastic she must be scum"...then they're wrong. That's not giving raerae cover to be scummy, it's just explaining how she is so we can interpret her other actions around it.
That is so adorable. FoS: LaLight, because having 2 votes is double the power!What did I miss?
Okay, since we're done playing my little game here, I may as well give my reasoning:I think I pulled a hamstring trying to follow that stretch.
Faust is one of the players who gets the utility of Day 1. And his Dukat claiming talk is fine, but the desire to lynch UE didn't read like a reaction test to me, for a minute before he realized it was insanely anti-town for the UB to inherit Dukat's power if the UB is town, he wanted Dukat dead for strategy reasons.
And yeah, Dukat isn't likely to be the NK but he's sortable by reads later on. If we are possibly going into LYLO in the next day later in the game and don't decide we collectively trust him, it makes sense to lynch Unceeurope then, but doing it in the first couple real life days of Day 1 eliminates a lot of the utility Faust knows there can be in Day 1. And I think Town!faust realizes that.
That is so adorable. FoS: LaLight, because having 2 votes is double the power!What did I miss?
Wow take one day off and I’m 5 pages behind
For you to explain what you mean, because it doesn't align with my worldview.
That is so adorable. FoS: LaLight, because having 2 votes is double the power!What did I miss?
What do you mean by this?
That is so adorable. FoS: LaLight, because having 2 votes is double the power!What did I miss?
What do you mean by this?
Are you the double voter MiX?
Other things worth saying at this time:
- Cops should aim for their scumreads rather than townreads, innocents are at best half useless and possibly completely useless
- Cops should only claim results on a guilty or if they are about to be lynched
- Crumbing roles is terrible here and should be avoided
- Crumbing innocent results should be kept pretty subtle, it's a much bigger deal to out yourself than for us to miss the crumb
- Sisko should target a scumread every night, hitting an NK well worth the risk of blocking town
- Sisko shouldn't claim if there are fewer NKs than expected, too many things can do that, but he should heavily suspect his previous night's target
- Bashir, Garak, Yates, and Winn should really be saving their shots for as late in the game as they think they can manage
- Garak really needs to crumb his bus driver targets if he uses that one (I would)
What do you think about shraeye/UoS/Glooble? Do you think they're towny, scummy or null for their setup talk?
Now, how will you respond to agresssiveness_
Now, how will you respond to agresssiveness_
MiX, I'm not okay with the way you're treating WCD. Please remember that you've signed the Civility Pledge, saying that you will treat other players in a civil manner. You've admitted that you were excessively aggressive, and yet you seem completely unapologetic about it. You're even continuing to push and criticise her. How about considering a less aggressive approach, and perhaps an apology to WCD?
I get to order around my scumreads. Especially when they slip this hard...it's not at all scummy to do so, because "scummy in life" does not exist.
vote: 2.7 he doesn’t feel as genuine as he normally does to me. Hasn’t come across as towny and he normally does pretty early.
This is my thought as well as I am rereading
vote: 2.71828.....
Why? I don't think I've seen cases against e and he seems pretty town to me. Also, sheeping a meh, if not bad, vote is just...lazy, as (I think) Didds put it. Scumpoints!
I also have to say that I've been reading the QTs of M121, and I saw this in the mason one...
LaLight: "...By the way MiX when you read this, sorry!"
That is so adorable. FoS: LaLight, because having 2 votes is double the power!
@faust, what makes you think Swan didn't get a scumread from chicken?
When I saw the 2 votes thing I assumed there was a claim I hadn't seen.Yeah, that was my immediate assumption; and when I looked for it it wasn't there. Hence my need for an explanation. And if WestCoast hadn't popped in with the question "are you double voter?" I sure as heck would have.
WestCoast, you drink you some good wine (hope it's a savignon blanc from New Zealand).
When I saw the 2 votes thing I assumed there was a claim I hadn't seen.Same here. Honestly there were some pretty baffling leaps involved in the entire affair. MiX seems to be trying really hard to stir up something, which definitely feels like a fairly botched town play to try and get some sort of lynch going - but a very poorly thought out and executed one. Not sure if I buy it though.
They feel like they have been flying under the radar and I didn't really like their chicken voteI would definitely like to see more discussion from them considering their rather unceremonious vote drop.
I feel like I wasn't particularly misrepresenting you, unless I misunderstand something. When you made that comment to me, I'd expressed surprise that someone had any read on Ash from two posts, and you suggested that it's possible to read alignment from two posts if it's possible for 200K posts. Then when discussing Chickenwarlord, you equated his two posts to an implied zero posts (because "other people have posted"). What did I miss?None of the people to vote for Chickenwarlord have expressed any sort of read on him beyond voting. So if they do have a scumread, I want them to clarify, because it doesn't look like it.
FWIW, I think unless there's something with the information content of an undisputable scumslip, then any post can only give partial indication of an alignment, and you need an accumulation of posts before anyone's alignment swings significantly away from the default assumption. (I'm feeling pleased with myself for not saying "prior" after that whole discussion with Haddock in your Radch mafia game).Yes but as you say post post can give indication. Obviously reads based on more posts will be better most of the time, but well it is D1.
Why disregarding that? That is the major benefit. If we're lynching Eddie, we are not lynching some important role.I wanted Dukat dead for strategy reasons. Lynching Dukat means not lynching a useful PR. It also means removing a liability. Of course the UB changes the first part, and makes it so that it largely does not matter whom we lynch from a PR perspective.
Much as I like D1s, I also like utilizing setup info to my advantage, and in an open setup if there is a good plan it outweighs reads for me. Especially in multiball where scum can legitimately scumhunt and thus is even harder to catch.
And that's better (disregarding the UB and PR usefulness) than lynching Dukat the day before LYLO why?
Also, are you giving Uncleeurope less towncred for his claim because you suggested it?No, I think he was genuine in saying that he wanted to claim all along. Not that I am giving towncred for that.
Whether or not someone can "take it" is not a good indicator of proper behaviour. Maybe I think that you can take it if I punch you in the face.Now, how will you respond to agresssiveness_
MiX, I'm not okay with the way you're treating WCD. Please remember that you've signed the Civility Pledge, saying that you will treat other players in a civil manner. You've admitted that you were excessively aggressive, and yet you seem completely unapologetic about it. You're even continuing to push and criticise her. How about considering a less aggressive approach, and perhaps an apology to WCD?
I am a firm believer that I should be aggressive here and that Didds can take it.
When I saw the 2 votes thing I assumed there was a claim I hadn't seen.Great, so everyone gets to do "let's claim what roles we do/do not have" game.
Whether or not someone can "take it" is not a good indicator of proper behaviour. Maybe I think that you can take it if I punch you in the face.Also victim blaming. Suddenly it's not you who is at fault for improper behaviour, but the other person who "couldn't take it".
Whether or not someone can "take it" is not a good indicator of proper behaviour. Maybe I think that you can take it if I punch you in the face.Also victim blaming. Suddenly it's not you who is at fault for improper behaviour, but the other person who "couldn't take it".
Still, if LaLight ever flips as scum double voter, nothing in the world will stop me from immediately voting you.
That is so adorable. FoS: LaLight, because having 2 votes is double the power!What did I miss?
What do you mean by this?
Are you the double voter MiX?
Dude, you can take off of the bossy boots right now. You don't get to order me, or anyone else, around. It's scummy AF in the game and in life, and I am not having it.
You said "That is so adorable. FoS: LaLight, because having 2 votes is double the power!"
Sure seems like you are saying you have two votes, I am not the only one confused, and you're FoS is just as good as a vote discussion is nonsensical to me. And no one says anyone has to obey UoS list of rules to be followed about roles, so I'm not sure that you are although you are quoting it here like its part of the setup.
I didn't make a mistake. I read more carefully than you do (see the Space gender discussion that you either didn't read or disregarded). Looks to me like you are saying you have two votes, so I am just making sure. Doubling down on me for pointing it out because the question doesn't follow the rules you believe have been established while trying to discipline me in the process...not cool.
Now, how will you respond to agresssiveness_
MiX, I'm not okay with the way you're treating WCD. Please remember that you've signed the Civility Pledge, saying that you will treat other players in a civil manner. You've admitted that you were excessively aggressive, and yet you seem completely unapologetic about it. You're even continuing to push and criticise her. How about considering a less aggressive approach, and perhaps an apology to WCD?
I am a firm believer that I should be aggressive here and that Didds can take it. If I am wrong, I apologize. When I pushed my boundaries with you, the resulting arguments would be NAI. Here I believe they are not.
Sigh...okay, calm down, calm down, you can do this...
@WCD, please explain why you wanted me to answer that question. In as great detail as possible. I'm trying to calm down...I still think that was a scumslip. And I still want an answer...please don't take this personally...
Ah, and also answer the points I made in the other post, of course.I get to order around my scumreads. Especially when they slip this hard...it's not at all scummy to do so, because "scummy in life" does not exist.
I withdraw this statement, I believe this was over the line.
I hope everyone can see where I'm coming from with this...
Vote: ashersky
Is this better?
Do we think the Double Voter can vote separately? Or is one bolded vote counted twice on the vote count?It's even more elementary to figure out: Just ask joth.
It's elementary to figure out; just have everyone vote.
Also, for someone who's recent post was about being behind and such, that was quite the quick post.Are we in the territory again of suspecting people of pointlessly lying about IRL stuff? Please let's not go there.
Wondering - what do people think their Chickenwarlord votes will achieve?
WCD - do you prefer "she"?
If so I am sorry. We have played a lot of games together and I have just never caught onto that.
Also, for someone who's recent post was about being behind and such, that was quite the quick post.Are we in the territory again of suspecting people of pointlessly lying about IRL stuff? Please let's not go there.
And ash, please respond to this:Wondering - what do people think their Chickenwarlord votes will achieve?
You voted for Chickenwarlord. Now you are not. How has this helped town?
Also, for someone who's recent post was about being behind and such, that was quite the quick post.Are we in the territory again of suspecting people of pointlessly lying about IRL stuff? Please let's not go there.
Or we can go there. How often is there a "if they were scum they'd be posting more" argument made? "IRL stuff" is just as much the human element of the game as it is being busy or available or online. I'm not saying Awaclus lied about being busy working or drumming or whatever. He just said "man I'm behind" and then was responding to the newest post in the game. It's about the discrepancy between "being behind" and being able to respond quickly to the newest post, which tells me Awaclus had read up to that point already, possibly meaning his previous post was an exaggeration to cover for not posting too much. Or maybe more time passed than I thought and he caught up, or maybe he reads super fast, I don't know. But Awaclus could have answered that himself.And ash, please respond to this:Wondering - what do people think their Chickenwarlord votes will achieve?
You voted for Chickenwarlord. Now you are not. How has this helped town?
It achieved a small wagon and some discussion on the merits of voting for CW. CW also came back and posted some. And it got votes on the record from players that may be useful in the late game when looking at interactions.
At the very worst, it was neutral, and most definitely it was better than at least half of the rest of the "contributions" to the game so far by other players.
How have any of your posts helped town?
I'm reading all the new posts but there's stuff in between that I have only skimmed over.
I'm reading all the new posts but there's stuff in between that I have only skimmed over.
Credible.
Any thoughts on any specific players?
I still like my E vote, I would also happily sheep Faust’s Jimm vote
More for myself than anyone else:
Day 1 ends on Saturday at 8am FT. So, 46ish hours from now...
I still like my E vote, I would also happily sheep Faust’s Jimm vote
Why is it faust's Jimmmmm vote? I've been voting for Jimmmm since page 13.
Can someone on this e wagon please point out where its coming from? And don't use the words "seems" or "feels".
I am just much more sheepable.I still like my E vote, I would also happily sheep Faust’s Jimm vote
Why is it faust's Jimmmmm vote? I've been voting for Jimmmm since page 13.
More for myself than anyone else:I think there is some consolidation necessary beforehand then. I'm not sure we can rely on a burst of activity on a Saturday morning. Currently the following players have more than 1 vote on them:
Day 1 ends on Saturday at 8am FT. So, 46ish hours from now...
I can see the reasoning behind Jimmmmm votes but I think e's lynch is much more informative and probable to be scum lynch.Why?
I am just much more sheepable.
Also why do you frame this a e vs Jimmmmm?I can see the reasoning behind Jimmmmm votes but I think e's lynch is much more informative and probable to be scum lynch.Why?
faust (2): UmbrageOfSnowThere seem to be some issues with this. I should be voting for Jimmmmm. ahsersky is voting for Awaclus.
2.71828..... (5): mcmcsalot, LaLight, Robz888, Awaclus, WestCoastDidds
shraeye (2): raerae, Jimmmmm
MiX (1): SpaceAnemone
chickenwarlord (2): ashersky, DatSwan
Jimmmmm (2): Glooble, MiX
Awaclus (1): Uncleeurope, faust
DatSwan (1): 2.71828.....
ashersky (1): Awaclus
No Lynch (1): chickenwarlord
Not voting (1): Shraeye
I still like my E vote, I would also happily sheep Faust’s Jimm vote
Why is it faust's Jimmmmm vote? I've been voting for Jimmmm since page 13.
Can someone on this e wagon please point out where its coming from? And don't use the words "seems" or "feels".
I know that I’m not on the wagon (yet) but it seems to me that e feels scummy.
Would you say that you have a case without those words on someone else?
When I saw the 2 votes thing I assumed there was a claim I hadn't seen.
Can somebody help me understand the "not shraeye" movement? I don't know that he's done anything tremendously townie so it seems like a weird line to draw in the sand.
So I guess my question is for faust: do you feel that you know Jimmm's meta particularly well and that town!Jimmm specifically would not have made this post:When I saw the 2 votes thing I assumed there was a claim I hadn't seen.
I can only speak for myself- I don't know anything about a movement. Shraeye's explanation of his position re: no lynching, while I still disagree with it, felt very towny to me.I am very sure that shraeye holds the belief that town should be more open to no lynching independent of the game and his alignment. I don't understand how you could think this says anything about his alignment.
I can only speak for myself- I don't know anything about a movement. Shraeye's explanation of his position re: no lynching, while I still disagree with it, felt very towny to me.I am very sure that shraeye holds the belief that town should be more open to no lynching independent of the game and his alignment. I don't understand how you could think this says anything about his alignment.
I do like Dukat claiming, now I don't have to argue about it though.
Also we obviously can't control when people claim, but faust, shraeye and others (and Joth in the Ancillary game) are really pushing this thing where it's all up to the town. Obvious it is up to the individual players but it is very much worth discussing. I was serious when I said I thought it had hurt town in Ancillary Mafia, the only thing I was lying about there was being upset about it.
This game is open so for the new players, scum have no value in fake claiming here, since every single one of us has a unique name from a known list. Towns lately seem to love randomly claiming their roles at L-4 or whatever and it's hugely anti-town. Even if your role is not a likely NK target, you narrow the pool of targets for the roles scum are looking for and it hurts everyone else.
Mafia is a team game, and decisions each player makes effect their whole team.
I don't know where this argument is coming from, but multiple players across multiple games are saying things with similar language so it's getting to be kind of a meme and I really think it's bad play that we should clamp down on.
In RMM51, it definitely helped scum a ton that a lot of information was available and that a lot of it was true. We were able to make very informed decisions most nights.
I would be very open to lynching Glooble based of the recent interactions. Seems a bit like scum trying to put more emphasis than there really is on things (the shraeye read)
I would be very open to lynching Glooble based of the recent interactions. Seems a bit like scum trying to put more emphasis than there really is on things (the shraeye read)
More for myself than anyone else:
Day 1 ends on Saturday at 8am FT. So, 46ish hours from now...
Can somebody help me understand the "not shraeye" movement? I don't know that he's done anything tremendously townie so it seems like a weird line to draw in the sand.Don't hate me because I'm beautiful.
I still like my E vote, I would also happily sheep Faust’s Jimm vote
Why is it faust's Jimmmmm vote? I've been voting for Jimmmm since page 13.
Can someone on this e wagon please point out where its coming from? And don't use the words "seems" or "feels".
I know that I’m not on the wagon (yet) but it seems to me that e feels scummy.
I would be very open to lynching Glooble based of the recent interactions. Seems a bit like scum trying to put more emphasis than there really is on things (the shraeye read)
I keep thinking that as well.
Can somebody help me understand the "not shraeye" movement? I don't know that he's done anything tremendously townie so it seems like a weird line to draw in the sand.Don't hate me because I'm beautiful.
All of that is nonsense to me. This fight is about nothing. Semantics and clarifications at best. Both of the players involved have played games before, there is no reason for offense to be taken here. MiX said something, WCD called them on it, MiX responded... and then the rest of it. Both players are operating way outside of the Town Norms I know them as. So my opinion is it is either Town vs Town or a planned interaction.A) third parties don't get to decide when offense is allowed/is not allowed to be taken
In this game the odds of a planned interaction are kind of diluted given the possibility of skum teams so I am inclined to believe Town vs Town.
MiX vs. WCD felt planned/planted, as posited by DatSwan.Absolutely not. This idea needs to be buried immediately.
I would be very open to lynching Glooble based of the recent interactions. Seems a bit like scum trying to put more emphasis than there really is on things (the shraeye read)
I keep thinking that as well.
vote: Glooble
I'm also down with that; for somebody who is against the e lynch because it's all based on "seems" and "feels", why is he giving me towncred based on how he feels??
He's got a healthy set of interactions, making it an actually informative lynch.
His analysis of the ash Ferengi misunderstanding still doesn't sit well with me.
And he's up there on my list of saying many things, but not really pushing many things.
I would be very open to lynching Glooble based of the recent interactions. Seems a bit like scum trying to put more emphasis than there really is on things (the shraeye read)
I keep thinking that as well.
vote: Glooble
I'm also down with that; for somebody who is against the e lynch because it's all based on "seems" and "feels", why is he giving me towncred based on how he feels??
He's got a healthy set of interactions, making it an actually informative lynch.
His analysis of the ash Ferengi misunderstanding still doesn't sit well with me.
And he's up there on my list of saying many things, but not really pushing many things.
Pushing things on day one is scummy though. Because there's so little to go on. Eventually we do have to reach a consensus, which is why I was looking at the wagons we already have people on and trying to see what the least bad option was. I settled on Jimmm, I laid out my reasoning. I realized the hypocrisy of my reasoning re: e and shraeye, so I decided to reread shraeye. Didn't find much that screamed town- didn't find anything that screamed scum either. I did stumble on that Awaclus post while I was doing the reread because we have two people voting for Awaclus right now and I wanted to point that out in case it changed their minds.
I agree with you my lynch would be somewhat informative, because I've been contributing. But that also makes me more valuable to have around on later days. In other ways my lynch wouldn't be very informative because while I've been making a lot of posts, there haven't been a lot of votes on me, or even a huge amount of interaction with my posts- in fact I've felt pretty invisible until just now, despite my attempts to contribute.
I would be very open to lynching Glooble based of the recent interactions. Seems a bit like scum trying to put more emphasis than there really is on things (the shraeye read)
I keep thinking that as well.
vote: Glooble
I'm also down with that; for somebody who is against the e lynch because it's all based on "seems" and "feels", why is he giving me towncred based on how he feels??
He's got a healthy set of interactions, making it an actually informative lynch.
His analysis of the ash Ferengi misunderstanding still doesn't sit well with me.
And he's up there on my list of saying many things, but not really pushing many things.
Pushing things on day one is scummy though. Because there's so little to go on. Eventually we do have to reach a consensus, which is why I was looking at the wagons we already have people on and trying to see what the least bad option was. I settled on Jimmm, I laid out my reasoning. I realized the hypocrisy of my reasoning re: e and shraeye, so I decided to reread shraeye. Didn't find much that screamed town- didn't find anything that screamed scum either. I did stumble on that Awaclus post while I was doing the reread because we have two people voting for Awaclus right now and I wanted to point that out in case it changed their minds.
I agree with you my lynch would be somewhat informative, because I've been contributing. But that also makes me more valuable to have around on later days. In other ways my lynch wouldn't be very informative because while I've been making a lot of posts, there haven't been a lot of votes on me, or even a huge amount of interaction with my posts- in fact I've felt pretty invisible until just now, despite my attempts to contribute.
I absolutely and totally disagree with the bolded/underlined portion of this quote.
Scum does not want to push things because they don't want to commit to anything. Town should never be afraid to be bold about their reads and push them.
Reads are extremely subjective, especially on day one. There's value in sharing them, but pushing them seems like a recipe for mislynch. But I guess you've played a lot more than I have.
So, kind of at the point where there is actually a non-zero chance that I get lynched today.
Is there any other case except "he feels off"?
And for those people with the feels, is there anything specific that I can comment on?
Reads are extremely subjective, especially on day one. There's value in sharing them, but pushing them seems like a recipe for mislynch. But I guess you've played a lot more than I have.
What do you suggest town does near the end of D1 then? Keep interacting? How would we (attempt to, shraeye) lynch anyone if we don't trust our reads? No: we need to push our gut, ultimately it's what mafia's all about.
@Glooble, I have a feeling I asked this already, but how would you describe your meta?
He's got a healthy set of interactions, making it an actually informative lynch.Boo.
Yeah, I feel you, but it does increase utility of his lynch over e's.He's got a healthy set of interactions, making it an actually informative lynch.Boo.
Yeah, I feel you, but it does increase utility of his lynch over e's.He's got a healthy set of interactions, making it an actually informative lynch.Boo.
Seriously, cross-reference the list of people who said I was crazy for advocating no-lynch because of all the information I'd be giving up against the list of people who are currently advocating lynch of 2.71, or are voting for chickenwarlord because of inactivity.
That group of people is either scummy, or seriously not thinking through their no-lynch position.
Both players are operating way outside of the Town Norms I know them as.
I would be very open to lynching Glooble based of the recent interactions. Seems a bit like scum trying to put more emphasis than there really is on things (the shraeye read)
Anz lynch we make will be informative because there will be 10 people who voted for that person. That's plenty of interaction. It is however completely backwards to want to lynch active players. Active players have interacted with lots of people, and this makes them easier to read once some of those people have flipped. On lurkers we won't have any more info D3 than we do now.Yeah, I feel you, but it does increase utility of his lynch over e's.He's got a healthy set of interactions, making it an actually informative lynch.Boo.
Seriously, cross-reference the list of people who said I was crazy for advocating no-lynch because of all the information I'd be giving up against the list of people who are currently advocating lynch of 2.71, or are voting for chickenwarlord because of inactivity.
That group of people is either scummy, or seriously not thinking through their no-lynch position.
Anz lynch we make will be informative because there will be 10 people who voted for that person. That's plenty of interaction. It is however completely backwards to want to lynch active players. Active players have interacted with lots of people, and this makes them easier to read once some of those people have flipped. On lurkers we won't have any more info D3 than we do now.Yeah, I feel you, but it does increase utility of his lynch over e's.He's got a healthy set of interactions, making it an actually informative lynch.Boo.
Seriously, cross-reference the list of people who said I was crazy for advocating no-lynch because of all the information I'd be giving up against the list of people who are currently advocating lynch of 2.71, or are voting for chickenwarlord because of inactivity.
That group of people is either scummy, or seriously not thinking through their no-lynch position.
Imagine that 10 people right now say
"vote: e
dunno, just feels off"
So e is lynched. If e turns up town, how do we differentiate from people expression honest but lame reads, and people who used lame reads as cover? Order on the wagon?? That introduces a ton of assumptions with little to no reasons why they might be true. ("well if I were scum, I'd vote early" "but *I* would want to be late on the wagon as scum")
What if e turns up scum? Well great scum doesn't want to lynch partners, so the wagon is towny! But if your partner were slowly becoming a lynch prospect, wouldn't you get on the wagon? Well, AAA would and BBB wouldn't; CCC would defend their partner and DDD never would. All we have is WIFOM, and any serious attempt at vote-count analysis is just disguised guesswork.
>>>
Y'all can't tell me how informative and important a lynch is, and at the same time let so many people explain their vote with "I just have a feeling".
I think there is some consolidation necessary beforehand then. I'm not sure we can rely on a burst of activity on a Saturday morning. Currently the following players have more than 1 vote on them:
e, shraeye, Awaclus, Jimmmmm
I think there is some consolidation necessary beforehand then. I'm not sure we can rely on a burst of activity on a Saturday morning. Currently the following players have more than 1 vote on them:
e, shraeye, Awaclus, Jimmmmm
@everyone, do you think this could possibly be partner interaction? Because I think this post by faust could essencially say "let's only lynch these 4 people", which is pretty scummy if none of them are (his) scum team. Luckily there could still be scum there, but still...
Imagine that 10 people right now sayNot sure what you think changes if there are elaborate cases attached to the votes. The assumptions that you so fear go into any kind of wagon analysis.
"vote: e
dunno, just feels off"
So e is lynched. If e turns up town, how do we differentiate from people expression honest but lame reads, and people who used lame reads as cover? Order on the wagon?? That introduces a ton of assumptions with little to no reasons why they might be true. ("well if I were scum, I'd vote early" "but *I* would want to be late on the wagon as scum")
What if e turns up scum? Well great scum doesn't want to lynch partners, so the wagon is towny! But if your partner were slowly becoming a lynch prospect, wouldn't you get on the wagon? Well, AAA would and BBB wouldn't; CCC would defend their partner and DDD never would. All we have is WIFOM, and any serious attempt at vote-count analysis is just disguised guesswork.
>>>
Y'all can't tell me how informative and important a lynch is, and at the same time let so many people explain their vote with "I just have a feeling".
I think there is some consolidation necessary beforehand then. I'm not sure we can rely on a burst of activity on a Saturday morning. Currently the following players have more than 1 vote on them:
e, shraeye, Awaclus, Jimmmmm
@everyone, do you think this could possibly be partner interaction? Because I think this post by faust could essencially say "let's only lynch these 4 people", which is pretty scummy if none of them are (his) scum team. Luckily there could still be scum there, but still...
I don't think it is scummy, faust beat me to it posting that.
We definitely need to narrow our focus in. We need to get 10 people to vote on a lynch. That is hard. But we need to do it.
And actually, speaking of moving off Robz,
Vote: Robz
1) posting about his meta off not being useful D1 and
2) his lazy vote on me that solidified my wagon as an actually viable lynch
Both things I can see scum!Robz doing. I know I said Robz was town for point 1 earlier, but I changed my mind
And actually, speaking of moving off Robz,
Vote: Robz
1) posting about his meta off not being useful D1 and
2) his lazy vote on me that solidified my wagon as an actually viable lynch
Both things I can see scum!Robz doing. I know I said Robz was town for point 1 earlier, but I changed my mind
I don't know, I think he's just null...this just feels like OMGUS without saying it.
Probably a better lynch than mcmc, however. I'll add him to my list.
I am getting a weird feeling that Robz and MiX are partners.
I am getting a weird feeling that Robz and MiX are partners.
Way too early to call partners in my opinion. But you can totally test your theory and vote Robz
I am getting a weird feeling that Robz and MiX are partners.
Way too early to call partners in my opinion. But you can totally test your theory and vote Robz
Oh, I know it’s too early, certainly, I just enjoy throwing my thoughts at people. If it’s gpong through my head it may as well be running through yours.
Your list of 8 people who could get lynched is interesting to me
I would rather lynch Jimmmm or LaLight than Robz.
I would rather lynch Jimmmm or LaLight than Robz.
Why’s that?
That is so adorable. FoS: LaLight, because having 2 votes is double the power!What did I miss?
Are you the double voter MiX?
When I saw the 2 votes thing I assumed there was a claim I hadn't seen.Yeah, that was my immediate assumption; and when I looked for it it wasn't there. Hence my need for an explanation. And if WestCoast hadn't popped in with the question "are you double voter?" I sure as heck would have.
When I saw the 2 votes thing I assumed there was a claim I hadn't seen.Same here.
But really the case for him lies on faust's reason
But really the case for him lies on faust's reason
As per my above post, would you say the same about the others who responded similarly?
Ouch, so I don't even make the null list? I find this list extraordinarily suspect considering you didn't get everybody. Seems like you had an agenda going into this and it wasn't just to express reads.
For a few minutes, I was just gonna quit the game because seriously, my life has too much of that kind of treatment and I don’t need more “for fun”. But space and shraeye seem to think he’s out of line, too, so maybe my feelings aren’t coming out of nowhere.
All of that is nonsense to me. This fight is about nothing. Semantics and clarifications at best. Both of the players involved have played games before, there is no reason for offense to be taken here. MiX said something, WCD called them on it, MiX responded... and then the rest of it. Both players are operating way outside of the Town Norms I know them as. So my opinion is it is either Town vs Town or a planned interaction.
Sigh...okay, calm down, calm down, you can do this...What you do is you go away and you don't post at all for a while. Similarly, his apology to WCD read as performance rather than sincere understanding to me. Anyway, I find him un-genuine, and as D1 scumminess goes, that ticks the boxes for me.
Space has done a whole lot of nothing this game, are they not very active? I don't remember any post saying that. Their vote is currently on a NAI point and I don't think they've tried to move it: if you look at space's posts, half of them are just fluff...this is a perfect way to be active and not contribute anything (or very little) to the game.
WCD and shraeye posted before clarification, so there was still confusion to be lifted. Chickenwarlord is new, so this is more fogivable for them. If you had wanted to support WCD, you could have siad so, but you didn't.That is so adorable. FoS: LaLight, because having 2 votes is double the power!What did I miss?Are you the double voter MiX?When I saw the 2 votes thing I assumed there was a claim I hadn't seen.Yeah, that was my immediate assumption; and when I looked for it it wasn't there. Hence my need for an explanation. And if WestCoast hadn't popped in with the question "are you double voter?" I sure as heck would have.When I saw the 2 votes thing I assumed there was a claim I hadn't seen.Same here.
faust: Given all of the above, why did you (cherry?) pick my post? Could you not make the exact same argument of shraeye, WCD and Chicken?
The intent of my post was to support WCD in a situation that seemed a little sour. I agreed with her reaction to MiX and I disagreed with his reaction to her. I also agree that they seem likely to be both Town.
I find them actively scummy and Robz just a little annoying.I would rather lynch Jimmmm or LaLight than Robz.
Why’s that?
There is, however, a definite hint of aggression in this post.All of that is nonsense to me. This fight is about nothing. Semantics and clarifications at best. Both of the players involved have played games before, there is no reason for offense to be taken here. MiX said something, WCD called them on it, MiX responded... and then the rest of it. Both players are operating way outside of the Town Norms I know them as. So my opinion is it is either Town vs Town or a planned interaction.
Just to offer you another perspective on this: it wasn't "a fight", it was MiX acting in a really rude way, and WCD stating entirely fairly that she wasn't willing to engage with that. The aggression was one-sided, and WCD's comments were statements of disengagement. I think she reacted exactly how I'd expect an adult woman who has her shit together to react when faced with an entitled young male.
I find him quite performative with it, which also makes me not read him as at all genuine. For instance, this is not what you post when you know you're worked up and should step away from the computer:I do not see what any of this has to do with MiX's alignment. All I see is you disapproving of how MiX responded to criticism. I don't think we should incorporate disagreements on a personal level into the game if we can avoid it.Sigh...okay, calm down, calm down, you can do this...What you do is you go away and you don't post at all for a while. Similarly, his apology to WCD read as performance rather than sincere understanding to me. Anyway, I find him un-genuine, and as D1 scumminess goes, that ticks the boxes for me.
What would the agenda be?
Ouch, so I don't even make the null list? I find this list extraordinarily suspect considering you didn't get everybody. Seems like you had an agenda going into this and it wasn't just to express reads.
What would the agenda be?
Ouch, so I don't even make the null list? I find this list extraordinarily suspect considering you didn't get everybody. Seems like you had an agenda going into this and it wasn't just to express reads.
I don't think this is making much sense at all. This is a big game, seems natural to focus on the players that you actually have something to say about. And forgive me, but you just have not been very memorable so far.
Vote: MiX
The more I look at that truncated reads list, and think about how many of those folks were involved in his “two vote” comment earlier, the way he treated me, then his vote on space, the more it feels like it this was a deliberate ploy
All of that is nonsense to me. This fight is about nothing. Semantics and clarifications at best. Both of the players involved have played games before, there is no reason for offense to be taken here. MiX said something, WCD called them on it, MiX responded... and then the rest of it. Both players are operating way outside of the Town Norms I know them as. So my opinion is it is either Town vs Town or a planned interaction.A) third parties don't get to decide when offense is allowed/is not allowed to be taken
In this game the odds of a planned interaction are kind of diluted given the possibility of skum teams so I am inclined to believe Town vs Town.
B) it does not feel planned. That is a terrible conclusionMiX vs. WCD felt planned/planted, as posited by DatSwan.Absolutely not. This idea needs to be buried immediately.
MiX vs. WCD felt planned/planted, as posited by DatSwan.I don't see how anyone could read the initial back and forth and walk away with that from it. Having to evaluate everything Ashersky says through the lens of someone who would jump on this conclusion bandwagon is going to be difficult.
Are LL and Jimmmm equal in your eyes or do you see Jimmmmmmmm as scummier, hence the vote?I could be voting LaLight, but Jimmmmm has more votes on him currently.
Aka, could you just as easily be voting LL?
Then you clearly need to work on your phrasing.All of that is nonsense to me. This fight is about nothing. Semantics and clarifications at best. Both of the players involved have played games before, there is no reason for offense to be taken here. MiX said something, WCD called them on it, MiX responded... and then the rest of it. Both players are operating way outside of the Town Norms I know them as. So my opinion is it is either Town vs Town or a planned interaction.A) third parties don't get to decide when offense is allowed/is not allowed to be taken
In this game the odds of a planned interaction are kind of diluted given the possibility of skum teams so I am inclined to believe Town vs Town.
B) it does not feel planned. That is a terrible conclusionMiX vs. WCD felt planned/planted, as posited by DatSwan.Absolutely not. This idea needs to be buried immediately.
Excuse me, but if I may:
A) I did not attempt to state that offense should or should not be taken.
Chicken, my boy! How much have you read past games? Did you do that at all? Do you know anyone's meta? Maybe at least Gloobles? Also, how active have you been these past days? Will you be here at deadline?I haven't really done very much reading of past games. I think just a bit of the Ghibli Mafia thread. I do have a modest understanding of Glooble's meta.
I don’t think MiX is a great option today, Scum don’t typically want to be antagonizers early. He’s shifty and weird, but he is also scumhunting emphatically early, when there is no need to do that as scum.Agreed. MiX is definitely mixing things up and maybe being a bit too eager. I'm not willing to say that I have a town read there, but certainly wouldn't want MiX as a day 0 lynch target.
faust is actually right, Garak should target his guess for most likely NK and top scumread, and not crumb the NK guess.If Garak does plan to use his power tonight, this is probably the best way to do it.
All of that is nonsense to me. This fight is about nothing. Semantics and clarifications at best. Both of the players involved have played games before, there is no reason for offense to be taken here. MiX said something, WCD called them on it, MiX responded... and then the rest of it. Both players are operating way outside of the Town Norms I know them as. So my opinion is it is either Town vs Town or a planned interaction.
Just to offer you another perspective on this: it wasn't "a fight", it was MiX acting in a really rude way, and WCD stating entirely fairly that she wasn't willing to engage with that. The aggression was one-sided, and WCD's comments were statements of disengagement. I think she reacted exactly how I'd expect an adult woman who has her shit together to react when faced with an entitled young male.
However, I really don't think it's particularly alignment-indicative. If MiX's playstyle is to wind people up to see what they'll spill, he could be doing so as any alignment. It seems quite plausible that frustrated/annoyed town will say things that he can successfully twist to get a mislynch through.
I find him quite performative with it, which also makes me not read him as at all genuine. For instance, this is not what you post when you know you're worked up and should step away from the computer:Sigh...okay, calm down, calm down, you can do this...What you do is you go away and you don't post at all for a while. Similarly, his apology to WCD read as performance rather than sincere understanding to me. Anyway, I find him un-genuine, and as D1 scumminess goes, that ticks the boxes for me.
Then you clearly need to work on your phrasing.All of that is nonsense to me. This fight is about nothing. Semantics and clarifications at best. Both of the players involved have played games before, there is no reason for offense to be taken here. MiX said something, WCD called them on it, MiX responded... and then the rest of it. Both players are operating way outside of the Town Norms I know them as. So my opinion is it is either Town vs Town or a planned interaction.A) third parties don't get to decide when offense is allowed/is not allowed to be taken
In this game the odds of a planned interaction are kind of diluted given the possibility of skum teams so I am inclined to believe Town vs Town.
B) it does not feel planned. That is a terrible conclusionMiX vs. WCD felt planned/planted, as posited by DatSwan.Absolutely not. This idea needs to be buried immediately.
Excuse me, but if I may:
A) I did not attempt to state that offense should or should not be taken.
All of that is nonsense to me. This fight is about nothing. Semantics and clarifications at best. Both of the players involved have played games before, there is no reason for offense to be taken here. MiX said something, WCD called them on it, MiX responded... and then the rest of it. Both players are operating way outside of the Town Norms I know them as. So my opinion is it is either Town vs Town or a planned interaction.
Just to offer you another perspective on this: it wasn't "a fight", it was MiX acting in a really rude way, and WCD stating entirely fairly that she wasn't willing to engage with that. The aggression was one-sided, and WCD's comments were statements of disengagement. I think she reacted exactly how I'd expect an adult woman who has her shit together to react when faced with an entitled young male.
However, I really don't think it's particularly alignment-indicative. If MiX's playstyle is to wind people up to see what they'll spill, he could be doing so as any alignment. It seems quite plausible that frustrated/annoyed town will say things that he can successfully twist to get a mislynch through.
I find him quite performative with it, which also makes me not read him as at all genuine. For instance, this is not what you post when you know you're worked up and should step away from the computer:Sigh...okay, calm down, calm down, you can do this...What you do is you go away and you don't post at all for a while. Similarly, his apology to WCD read as performance rather than sincere understanding to me. Anyway, I find him un-genuine, and as D1 scumminess goes, that ticks the boxes for me.
I want to respond to this with the preface that if anything I say here comes off as disrespectful - it is 100% unintentional.
This is a game. Based on social interaction to determine a winning faction. It is publicly hosted, so I suppose there is nothing keeping children from it, but I for one (potentially wrong I accept) assume that all players I am talking to are adults.
Aggression should be an assumed part of this game. If we had arguments about one-sided aggression every time it happened on Mafia FDS, we would literally never talk about anything else. That is how we put players on their toes, force interactions that are un-wanted, skum hunt, etc.
Rudeness should not be acceptable, by any means. It is a game, for fun. However, we should not discourage players from interactions outside, even if forceful, as long as they are within the pledge terms. No one should feel like they cannot follow a skum read up based on irrelevant factors such as "entitled male" or "grown woman". Those are bias factors from outside the game state that should not be included. It would probably be better if you just referred to them as "they". That sounds sarcastic, but I genuinely it not meant to be.
As equally much as you care about the "They vs He vs She" part of a game, I care about the integrity the game. I love all games, but they are only fun because they are games. The real world needs to be respected in games, but also we have to accept that we are playing a game... I get that that is super convoluted, but if you read it over once or twice I think it will make sense I hope.
---Whatever, this is a concept that has come up A LOT in games on this forum since I have started (which has not been that hell of a long time). I am bias, because I am aware that because of the way I post it can come off as rude and I know I do not intend it to be. But really everyone should just dial it back on this stuff. And most importantly, for the sake of the game, at least consider it NAI in regards to these games.
This is literally the last thing I will discuss on this topic during this game. Please file all complaints to your localpost officetrash bin. If you actually have something you would like to discuss that would make the community better - PM me when the game is over. I will not respond to anything regarding this for the rest of this game.
I don't think anything he said sounds like it was supposed to be taken as a personal insult, like, at all.It does not matter.
I don't think anything he said sounds like it was supposed to be taken as a personal insult, like, at all.It does not matter.
I don't think anything he said sounds like it was supposed to be taken as a personal insult, like, at all.It does not matter.
I don't think anything he said sounds like it was supposed to be taken as a personal insult, like, at all.It does not matter.
I don't think anything he said sounds like it was supposed to be taken as a personal insult, like, at all.It does not matter.
I don't think anything he said sounds like it was supposed to be taken as a personal insult, like, at all.It does not matter.
Intent does matter, though.
I really wish we could abandon this whole thing, it is needlessly exploding a small situatuation into something much larger than what should be discussed here.
MiX is definitely mixing things up
I hereby declare all discussion about civilty, agression, and that one misgendeting thing to be anti-town: all it does is get people riled up, cluttering the thread with emotions, which is bad this close to deadline. If yoy want to learn my meta, I'll tell you what I told Didds: I act like this when I find a scumslip, CLEARLY this isn't acceptable here, so I'll drop it.You know I was trying to be charitable but clearly Space's assessment of you is spot on.
END OF DISCUSSION
Thank you for your understanding.
I hereby declare all discussion about civilty, agression, and that one misgendeting thing to be anti-town: all it does is get people riled up, cluttering the thread with emotions, which is bad this close to deadline. If yoy want to learn my meta, I'll tell you what I told Didds: I act like this when I find a scumslip, CLEARLY this isn't acceptable here, so I'll drop it.
END OF DISCUSSION
Thank you for your understanding.MiX is definitely mixing things up
I live for this. Also, do you think Glooble's following his townmeta?
*sigh*I don't think anything he said sounds like it was supposed to be taken as a personal insult, like, at all.It does not matter.
Intent does matter, though.
I really wish we could abandon this whole thing, it is needlessly exploding a small situatuation into something much larger than what should be discussed here.
I hereby declare all discussion about civilty, agression, and that one misgendeting thing to be anti-town: all it does is get people riled up, cluttering the thread with emotions, which is bad this close to deadline.
Yes this is hyperbole. I thought you of all people would understand. But Awaclus's post seems to imply that if insult was not intended, then everything is peachy. It's not.
I hereby declare all discussion about civilty, agression, and that one misgendeting thing to be anti-town: all it does is get people riled up, cluttering the thread with emotions, which is bad this close to deadline. If yoy want to learn my meta, I'll tell you what I told Didds: I act like this when I find a scumslip, CLEARLY this isn't acceptable here, so I'll drop it.You know I was trying to be charitable but clearly Space's assessment of you is spot on.
END OF DISCUSSION
Thank you for your understanding.
I am so sorry now I even posted the damn thing, I meant to be more of a #Go_FDS_FAM thing... not a #TheirCanOnlyBeOneHighlander_FDS thing...Could you explain to me what those acronyms are for? I'm not readily familiar with all the shorthand.
Wow this is gonna get a lot longer lol:I am so sorry now I even posted the damn thing, I meant to be more of a #Go_FDS_FAM thing... not a #TheirCanOnlyBeOneHighlander_FDS thing...Could you explain to me what those acronyms are for? I'm not readily familiar with all the shorthand.
Also, as long as we have you here Chicken...
Who is your top two skum reads?
Who are the two people you would not lynch right now?
I'd hold off on lynching MiX and Faust.And by hold off, I mean we should definitely wait to see what goes down in the night, not that they're at the bottom of my suspicion list.
I was too agressive, I know: this is how I act when someone scumslips.
This is not an apology. It is a justification.
What do you mean by "doubling down"? I was never on you...and yes, I do believe the rules have been established, no one disagreed with anything UoS posted in that list (IIRC faust only had a problem with the Garak part).
Doubling down, in this context, means digging in and redoubling your efforts. So I said to back off with the ordering me around (Do what I say! Now!) and you dug in and insisted that you are justified.
I get to order around my scumreads. Especially when they slip this hard...it's not at all scummy to do so, because "scummy in life" does not exist.
You have retracted this (although did not apologize for saying it), so I will not belabor the point, but this is the essence of my issue. If you think I (or anyone) is scum, then make the case. No one has to answer to you or obey your commands. Not doing so does not make them scummy. It gives them agency. “Scummy in life” means being aggressive and hostile, and it absolutely exists. This is a game, but it is also a community and all is not not forgiven just because we are playing.
I hate it that the two of you have your stuff turned to "offline". Many nights of sitting around wondering if I am gonna be talking to myself or if I get to talk to another person.
Mcmc..... why do some people call you “mom salon”??
What would the agenda be?
Ouch, so I don't even make the null list? I find this list extraordinarily suspect considering you didn't get everybody. Seems like you had an agenda going into this and it wasn't just to express reads.
I don't think this is making much sense at all. This is a big game, seems natural to focus on the players that you actually have something to say about. And forgive me, but you just have not been very memorable so far.
I don't think me showing my online status would be of much use to you though as it would just mean that I have an f.ds tab on in my browser while I'm off doing other stuff. That happens a lot.I hate it that the two of you have your stuff turned to "offline". Many nights of sitting around wondering if I am gonna be talking to myself or if I get to talk to another person.
This is me too. I'm never trying to check to see "oooh, guuurrrrl, BBB is online abd not posting how scummy!!". But I do want to know if sitting around waiting for a convo is worthwhile or not.
Mcmc..... why do some people call you “mom salon”??
What would the agenda be?
Ouch, so I don't even make the null list? I find this list extraordinarily suspect considering you didn't get everybody. Seems like you had an agenda going into this and it wasn't just to express reads.
I don't think this is making much sense at all. This is a big game, seems natural to focus on the players that you actually have something to say about. And forgive me, but you just have not been very memorable so far.
It's the null that's getting to me. I get it's a big game, it's overwhelming, reads on only people you have reads on makes sense but why even include a null bucket then?
It stuck because it was funny and cute like me!
Okay, I've got a grand total of one townread (Uncle, because he laughed at a joke I made, he never laughed at any of the amazing jokes I made last game even though he was given ample opportunity, this is good enough for me) and no strong scumreads. I am suspicious of e, MiX, Glooble for being on #teamnotshraeye, still seems like a weird stance to take for virtually no reason. Basically I'm saying my vote's for sale, if there's a reasonable case out there I'll bite on it.If you vote Jimmmmm then I promise I won't hammer you tomorrow!
Okay, I've got a grand total of one townread (Uncle, because he laughed at a joke I made, he never laughed at any of the amazing jokes I made last game even though he was given ample opportunity, this is good enough for me) and no strong scumreads. I am suspicious of e, MiX, Glooble for being on #teamnotshraeye, still seems like a weird stance to take for virtually no reason. Basically I'm saying my vote's for sale, if there's a reasonable case out there I'll bite on it.If you vote Jimmmmm then I promise I won't hammer you tomorrow!
mcmc, Thank you!
what does the number-dash-number mean?
But really the case for him lies on faust's reason
As per my above post, would you say the same about the others who responded similarly?
So all in all I think mix should drop his weak argument for wcd being scum and people should drop the idea that mix is scum because he is super loud and bull headedly pushing a bad case.
It's the null that's getting to me. I get it's a big game, it's overwhelming, reads on only people you have reads on makes sense but why even include a null bucket then?
Yes, yes, the read list is coming, but I think it's only useful to consider people that I think will actually get lynched...in fact I'll state those now: Jimmmmm, e, Didds, Space, LL, shraeye, Glooble, mcmc; in no particular order.
I picked the people that I think will get lynched today (minus me), focusing on others is pointless if we want to get a lynch (close to, shraeye) done.
I can add you here if you want, but all I have to say is...I think I'll find out what she is with more interaction.
I would be okay with lynching Jimmm, but don't want to leave the 2.7 wagon, since it's more of a thing.We could make ash a thing!! do it! do it!
mcmc, how does scum benefit from not lynching today? How can a No Lynch be both anti-town and anti-scum?
Also, I now have two townreads! Add mcmc to the list, that flipflop on me was too violent to be anything but town.
ashersky: it's not time (you just wait)
2.71828.....: So its that right away the shraeye IC and we should vote faust stuff is really unlike him. ALso don't like D1 passes for everyone he hasn't played with its an easy non alignment indicative way to narrow down players. Says he created a scum read on faust for fun not for reactions, one is town and one is silly. First towny thing he does is say wcd/mix is townvtown, thats not a fun post to make as scum. Going for robz is also very NAI since its always easy as scum and defendable as town.(thanks for that meta robz)
I would be okay with lynching Jimmm, but don't want to leave the 2.7 wagon, since it's more of a thing.
It IS time! let's do it!
Also, reread 2.71 from the perspective "he's being tongue in cheek and trying to jumpstart the game". It's a perfect explanation. It's time to get off that lame wagon and onto the super-awesome ash wagon that everybody's talking about!
mcmc, how does scum benefit from not lynching today? How can a No Lynch be both anti-town and anti-scum?
Also, I now have two townreads! Add mcmc to the list, that flipflop on me was too violent to be anything but town.
Oh you are confused on what I meant, I see how you got that.
Proposing a no-lynch as scum is a good thing to do because technically it’s not actually the worst play for town as shraeye pointed out. So it’s somethig a scum can talk about, it’s something that’s not actually going to happen, and it’s something that has a pro-town edge case. So scum!shraeye gets to discuss a non relevant thing that could be coming from town.
It's like if I opened every game with saying "Animals are better than humans!" It doesn't say anything about my alignment, it just is a belief I hold.
mcmc, how does scum benefit from not lynching today? How can a No Lynch be both anti-town and anti-scum?
Also, I now have two townreads! Add mcmc to the list, that flipflop on me was too violent to be anything but town.
Oh you are confused on what I meant, I see how you got that.
Proposing a no-lynch as scum is a good thing to do because technically it’s not actually the worst play for town as shraeye pointed out. So it’s somethig a scum can talk about, it’s something that’s not actually going to happen, and it’s something that has a pro-town edge case. So scum!shraeye gets to discuss a non relevant thing that could be coming from town.
People really need to stop giving shraeye any cred, one way or the other, for proposing a No Lynch. It's something he believes to his core and something he proposes in nearly every game he plays. It's like if I opened every game with saying "Animals are better than humans!" It doesn't say anything about my alignment, it just is a belief I hold.
I’m caught up. I take back the plan comment, clearly not after all the continued discussion. If it had just disappeared poof style it would have seemed not genuine.
Shraeye is silly but not scummy, even though his vote on me is pointless and misguided. The ferengi thing wasn’t a plan so much as thought based on a misread.
I think raerae is a good day one lynch today — she’s ensured her only memorable interactions are with one (towny) player and hasn’t added any content otherwise.
vote: raerae anyone?
[raerae] ensured her only memorable interactions are with one (towny) player and hasn’t added any content otherwise.Which towny player is that?
Hmmm... alright, you've got a deal. But it is off if you change your vote afterwards.Okay, I've got a grand total of one townread (Uncle, because he laughed at a joke I made, he never laughed at any of the amazing jokes I made last game even though he was given ample opportunity, this is good enough for me) and no strong scumreads. I am suspicious of e, MiX, Glooble for being on #teamnotshraeye, still seems like a weird stance to take for virtually no reason. Basically I'm saying my vote's for sale, if there's a reasonable case out there I'll bite on it.If you vote Jimmmmm then I promise I won't hammer you tomorrow!
Negotiations are open! How about you don't even vote me tomorrow?
raerae: upon reread actually kinda scummy. Very "its okay everyone" style posts. The only antagonism she puts out is toward shraeye which is very safe since its easily covered by their relationship. I changed my mind shes back on the list.
Hmmm... alright, you've got a deal. But it is off if you change your vote afterwards.Okay, I've got a grand total of one townread (Uncle, because he laughed at a joke I made, he never laughed at any of the amazing jokes I made last game even though he was given ample opportunity, this is good enough for me) and no strong scumreads. I am suspicious of e, MiX, Glooble for being on #teamnotshraeye, still seems like a weird stance to take for virtually no reason. Basically I'm saying my vote's for sale, if there's a reasonable case out there I'll bite on it.If you vote Jimmmmm then I promise I won't hammer you tomorrow!
Negotiations are open! How about you don't even vote me tomorrow?
I’m caught up. I take back the plan comment, clearly not after all the continued discussion. If it had just disappeared poof style it would have seemed not genuine.
Shraeye is silly but not scummy, even though his vote on me is pointless and misguided. The ferengi thing wasn’t a plan so much as thought based on a misread.
I think raerae is a good day one lynch today — she’s ensured her only memorable interactions are with one (towny) player and hasn’t added any content otherwise.
vote: raerae anyone?
So how does that makes me an informative lynch for town? You're proposing a lynch of somebody who's few interactions are with somebody you have a townread on. That seems exceedingly unhelpful to town.
Vote: ash
I’m caught up. I take back the plan comment, clearly not after all the continued discussion. If it had just disappeared poof style it would have seemed not genuine.
Shraeye is silly but not scummy, even though his vote on me is pointless and misguided. The ferengi thing wasn’t a plan so much as thought based on a misread.
I think raerae is a good day one lynch today — she’s ensured her only memorable interactions are with one (towny) player and hasn’t added any content otherwise.
vote: raerae anyone?
So how does that makes me an informative lynch for town? You're proposing a lynch of somebody who's few interactions are with somebody you have a townread on. That seems exceedingly unhelpful to town.
Vote: ash
He didn’t say you were an informative lynch he said you are a good one. I agree your lynch isn’t super informative
raerae: upon reread actually kinda scummy. Very "its okay everyone" style posts. The only antagonism she puts out is toward shraeye which is very safe since its easily covered by their relationship. I changed my mind shes back on the list.
Can you give an example of this? I don't remember passing out warm fuzzies this game.
raerae: upon reread actually kinda scummy. Very "its okay everyone" style posts. The only antagonism she puts out is toward shraeye which is very safe since its easily covered by their relationship. I changed my mind shes back on the list.
Can you give an example of this? I don't remember passing out warm fuzzies this game.
Oo so hard on mobile, I promise I’ll get to this at some point I’ve got to do some work now. I think it was during the mix/wcd thing though scum would have wanted that to get bigger so it can’t have just been that.
I would be okay with lynching Jimmm, but don't want to leave the 2.7 wagon, since it's more of a thing.
raerae: upon reread actually kinda scummy. Very "its okay everyone" style posts. The only antagonism she puts out is toward shraeye which is very safe since its easily covered by their relationship. I changed my mind shes back on the list.
Can you give an example of this? I don't remember passing out warm fuzzies this game.
Oo so hard on mobile, I promise I’ll get to this at some point I’ve got to do some work now. I think it was during the mix/wcd thing though scum would have wanted that to get bigger so it can’t have just been that.
Broski, I very specifically did NOT comment on that interaction. I'm in Didds' corner but I couldn't add anything that wouldn't get me kicked off the forum to that so I shutdown and walked away.
That vote count should be 1.6, right?
raerae: upon reread actually kinda scummy. Very "its okay everyone" style posts. The only antagonism she puts out is toward shraeye which is very safe since its easily covered by their relationship. I changed my mind shes back on the list.
Can you give an example of this? I don't remember passing out warm fuzzies this game.
Oo so hard on mobile, I promise I’ll get to this at some point I’ve got to do some work now. I think it was during the mix/wcd thing though scum would have wanted that to get bigger so it can’t have just been that.
Broski, I very specifically did NOT comment on that interaction. I'm in Didds' corner but I couldn't add anything that wouldn't get me kicked off the forum to that so I shutdown and walked away.
Okay okay I’ll pull the quotes, would you get a shuffleit username so I can search your posts easier tanks
Shraeye proposing a no-lynch is scummy because it lets him do something that isn’t outright alignment indicative. It’s sort of a catch-22 I get that but I’m of the opinion he should get scum points for it (because it technically doesn’t give him scum points but also isn’t helpful).
It’s similar to players that are overly reliant on setup analysis/night actions. I think space is a good example of someone who was reliant on that, then hey started getting scum read for being passive early on and then their meta changed slightly to be more pro-town.
I know shraeyerae is everybody's favorite thing, but you are definitely remembering me and attributing it to her.raerae: upon reread actually kinda scummy. Very "its okay everyone" style posts. The only antagonism she puts out is toward shraeye which is very safe since its easily covered by their relationship. I changed my mind shes back on the list.
Can you give an example of this? I don't remember passing out warm fuzzies this game.
Oo so hard on mobile, I promise I’ll get to this at some point I’ve got to do some work now. I think it was during the mix/wcd thing though scum would have wanted that to get bigger so it can’t have just been that.
I’ve played like 10 games on iso, 10 games on goku, and zero on shuffleit. I’m here for the mafia, if it confuses people that’s on them and maybe they should heck out the forum games section
:)
On to the warm fuzzies, you are correct none of them are warm fuzzies so “it’s okay everyone” wasn’t quite right. But your first 25 posts are all either very very subtle and small town reads other than your comments on shraeye, you are playing a very low impact game without actually being lurky, their are no individual posts in particular.
Not a huge fan of lynching ashersky or raerae today thoughBut I want ash, no fair. How about reconsider?
Okay okay I’ll pull the quotes, would you get a shuffleit username so I can search your posts easier tanksUse "posts: 72"
Shraeye proposing a no-lynch is scummy because it lets him do something that isn’t outright alignment indicative. It’s sort of a catch-22 I get that but I’m of the opinion he should get scum points for it (because it technically doesn’t give him scum points but also isn’t helpful).
It’s similar to players that are overly reliant on setup analysis/night actions. I think space is a good example of someone who was reliant on that, then hey started getting scum read for being passive early on and then their meta changed slightly to be more pro-town.
I've got two issues with this.
First, it feels like you're saying all my activity is because of this NAI issue I've brought up. Go back, count my no-lynch posts; I dare you.
Second, are you prepared to give scumreads to everyone talking setup? Enjoy that 40 person scumteam.
Mcmc Post Count 1.0
[snip]
44 Shraeye: 47-3
Okay okay I’ll pull the quotes, would you get a shuffleit username so I can search your posts easier tanksUse "posts: 72"
Broski, I very specifically did NOT comment on that interaction. I'm in Didds' corner but I couldn't add anything that wouldn't get me kicked off the forum to that so I shutdown and walked away.
I know shraeyerae is everybody's favorite thing, but you are definitely remembering me and attributing it to her.
Okay okay I’ll pull the quotes, would you get a shuffleit username so I can search your posts easier tanksUse "posts: 72"
Yea but I always forget that and so I have to find one of her posts and check how many posts it is and it’s a whole process. Don’t get me started on 2.718IRRATINALE1737... like pick a name
I’ve played like 10 games on iso, 10 games on goku, and zero on shuffleit. I’m here for the mafia, if it confuses people that’s on them and maybe they should heck out the forum games section
:)
On to the warm fuzzies, you are correct none of them are warm fuzzies so “it’s okay everyone” wasn’t quite right. But your first 25 posts are all either very very subtle and small town reads other than your comments on shraeye, you are playing a very low impact game without actually being lurky, their are no individual posts in particular.
Literally hadn't assigned townreads until today. You can just admit you're wrong, nobody will blame you.
Not a town read but a very “why can’t he be our lynch” it’s really open ended and non commitalAnyway, care to guess why I voted for faust?
You missed the fact that he unvoted Uncle, didn't you?
Now, serious talk: anyone who knows Robz's meta, does he analyze setups? Does he like to break setups? Is he usually good at theory talk in general?
So, uncle claimed...well that makes him unlynchable, so he might as well be the IC for this day, right?
Vote: raerae, I happen to like e's reason to townread shraeye, and your vote seems like a good way to not play RVS, since he's not dying today.
And why can't shraeye be our lunch today? He seems just as on the table as everybody else?
Subtle statement of trust and general nothing post.I subbed in for Robz in the last game, and kept rereading the game. Not that Robz said a lot, but it gets in your head.
Gotcha! For what it's worth, I have an inappropriate amount of trust for you because I look at your name and think, "Mods can't lie!"
Some warm fuzzies being thrown out “let’s all joke sprinkle it with serious”.(note I agree with this as a point it’s just you’ve posted lots of this nothingness)And no lynch D1 is basically the most absolute worst thing town could ever do D1
Time to mass claim.
Then we no lynch.
Come on everybody, let’s do this.
Please use your ICness this day to do productive things instead of jokes please.
Vote places, question people, I don't know; go all out, you're not dying today, that's for sure.
Disagree, never stop joking. Sprinkle it with serious. Or do whatever you want that makes the game fun for you.
Slight defending of shraeye by saying he hasn’t done much.No lynch is very bad, but I don't want to welcome shraeye back with a day 1 lynch. Same for raerae.
Naw, let's kill him, I just want to know why first.
Bahaha
Priorities, amirite?
If true crime shows have taught me nothing else it's the importance of a good alibi or at least a good self-defense story!
@jimmmmmm, it's because he made a dad joke, isn't it? I'll take that as a yes and I fully support it.
But, in all seriousness, he's basically done nothing other than call for a no lynch and question MiX's ridiculousness so what's your reason?
Another saying you want to let someone live.Like if a player’s general style makes them hard to read, that player is a liability as town and especially dangerous as scum. Sounds like a great day 1 lynch to me.
I'd generally agree but that got MiX killed D1 last game. I'm interested in letting MiX live one more day if only to see what he's like D2.
Meh, I don't think the Ferengi plan thing makes ash scum (as scum I think he would think plans through more, not less) and his vote on you is fine. Not interested.Hmmm... alright, you've got a deal. But it is off if you change your vote afterwards.Okay, I've got a grand total of one townread (Uncle, because he laughed at a joke I made, he never laughed at any of the amazing jokes I made last game even though he was given ample opportunity, this is good enough for me) and no strong scumreads. I am suspicious of e, MiX, Glooble for being on #teamnotshraeye, still seems like a weird stance to take for virtually no reason. Basically I'm saying my vote's for sale, if there's a reasonable case out there I'll bite on it.If you vote Jimmmmm then I promise I won't hammer you tomorrow!
Negotiations are open! How about you don't even vote me tomorrow?
Can you look at ash real quicklike before we shake on it? Generally what shraeye said and specifically his reason and vote on me.
Broski, I very specifically did NOT comment on that interaction. I'm in Didds' corner but I couldn't add anything that wouldn't get me kicked off the forum to that so I shutdown and walked away.
Preach. Seeking not to get kicked off is a good standard.
I would vote for Asher, but not raerae. I am less enthusiastic about e than I was before.
Vote: LL
I love all the people dancing around with the idea of voting Robz but not doing it.
Vote: LL
LaLight! I forgot about them!
The world is collapsing: I agree with Uncle for once. He's right, LL's not being himself. But hold on, didn't this happen last time? And he was mason? That game is key for a lot of meta talk...
Vote: LaLight while I skim M121 to see what LL did.
PPE 2: raerae, time to vote Jimmmmmm, cmon, gotta take that deal, my vote's still there in spirit
Meh, I don't think the Ferengi plan thing makes ash scum (as scum I think he would think plans through more, not less) and his vote on you is fine. Not interested.Hmmm... alright, you've got a deal. But it is off if you change your vote afterwards.Okay, I've got a grand total of one townread (Uncle, because he laughed at a joke I made, he never laughed at any of the amazing jokes I made last game even though he was given ample opportunity, this is good enough for me) and no strong scumreads. I am suspicious of e, MiX, Glooble for being on #teamnotshraeye, still seems like a weird stance to take for virtually no reason. Basically I'm saying my vote's for sale, if there's a reasonable case out there I'll bite on it.If you vote Jimmmmm then I promise I won't hammer you tomorrow!
Negotiations are open! How about you don't even vote me tomorrow?
Can you look at ash real quicklike before we shake on it? Generally what shraeye said and specifically his reason and vote on me.
I love all the people dancing around with the idea of voting Robz but not doing it.
I think it’s because here is such little difference between him and jimm it’s hard to pick one and they you start doubting why you are voting thinking of voting hemcincthe first place.
Vote: LL
LaLight! I forgot about them!
The world is collapsing: I agree with Uncle for once. He's right, LL's not being himself. But hold on, didn't this happen last time? And he was mason? That game is key for a lot of meta talk...
Vote: LaLight while I skim M121 to see what LL did.
PPE 2: raerae, time to vote Jimmmmmm, cmon, gotta take that deal, my vote's still there in spirit
Your vote isn't on jimmmmmm, why are you advocating his lunch and voting elsewhere. Why is a jimmmmmm vote for enough for me but not for you? Spirit votes aren't worth anything I'm this game.
If you want to try something new, may I interest you in an ash-lynch?? It's new, it's exciting, all the cool kids are doing it.
If you want to try something new, may I interest you in an ash-lynch?? It's new, it's exciting, all the cool kids are doing it.New? People have been lynching ash early since the dawn of time.
I love all the people dancing around with the idea of voting Robz but not doing it.
I think it’s because here is such little difference between him and jimm it’s hard to pick one and they you start doubting why you are voting thinking of voting hemcincthe first place.
Yeah, ok. But like the LaLight votes feel as if they are people saying, "yeah, Robz is a good lynch....Look! LaLight! Let's try a New Thing here right at the deadline" (or approaching the deadline)
If you want to try something new, may I interest you in an ash-lynch?? It's new, it's exciting, all the cool kids are doing it.New? People have been lynching ash early since the dawn of time.
;)If you want to try something new, may I interest you in an ash-lynch?? It's new, it's exciting, all the cool kids are doing it.
Nah, only new interesting lynches that I introduce are valid
I love all the people dancing around with the idea of voting Robz but not doing it.
I think it’s because here is such little difference between him and jimm it’s hard to pick one and they you start doubting why you are voting thinking of voting hemcincthe first place.
Yeah, ok. But like the LaLight votes feel as if they are people saying, "yeah, Robz is a good lynch....Look! LaLight! Let's try a New Thing here right at the deadline" (or approaching the deadline)
I agree the lalight votes feel scummy but I have a strong townread on Europe and mix so I’m not lynching there just adjusting my reads
I would be okay with lynching Jimmm, but don't want to leave the 2.7 wagon, since it's more of a thing.
Robz is your ring on the 2.7 wagon totally a sheeping of me or is there more?
Also why okay with jimm?
@joth - will you be around for official vote counts leading up to the deadline?
I love all the people dancing around with the idea of voting Robz but not doing it.
are you prepared to give scumreads to everyone talking setup? Enjoy that 40 person scumteam.I've always wanted to be scum with Ash and faust.
Vote: LLUE moves his vote off Robz here and onto a new LL wagon, I noticed him doing this constantly last game around the ends of days as scum. Might not be anything but I want to note this.
Just to see where this goes.
I’m not sold on raerae, but not opposed, there does seem to be a difference since last game, including a much more artificial anti shraye vibe. Like, going after people that think shraeye is town over aggressively analyzing shraeye... I dunno, just feels off.
Asher interests me, as does space.
And the trio of LL, Robz, Jimmmmm, are always interesting. LL being a new addition to that bucket of players since the other two are apparently consistent in play, but LL is joining for no reason. And his excuse is that people are hard to read. Come on, now, LL that never stopped you from making an LL-Bucket, tell me where I can find a scum in X-people. I need my daily intake of foreword slashes.
1. Jimmmmm is not participating which I can see him do as both alignments. Mostly I would keep him alive, he's a scary power late in the game if town.
2. UmbrageOfSnow - was active and cool, got a lot of townreads from different people and kind of disappeared?
3. LaLight - me, struggling with going here.
4. DatSwan - Did he do anything?
5. mcmcsalot - Somewhat here, not really noticeable, but I liked that he voted for e, because I felt like me and mcmc got the same feeling
6. Glooble - can't read yet
7. WestCoastDidds - she's still awesome. We're yet to see scum!Didds, but for now I feel like it's good old town!her.
8. SpaceAnemone - Struggling as much as I am, I don't really want to lycnh them, see Jimmmmm
9. Shraeye - I get the different feeling from when we were masons. Could definitely vote there
10. MiX - Don't want to lynch cause I still feel guilt over the last game but at one point, sure. Also, yeah, aggression made me quit Mafia for some time once and also broke two games I was in. It isn't fun.
11. faust - let's see D2
12. ashersky - His activity level changed as we saw in Radch, I can't read him yet. For now feel townie
13. 2.71828..... - strong feeling of actilurking. I don't know, it's like I am reading his posts and then I can't remember what they were about...
14. Robz888 - always up for Robz lynch, you know
15. Awaclus - Is he in this game?
16. Uncleeurope - I am scared of him as of now. But rather would not lynch
17. raerae - don't remember anything from them here
18. chickenwarlord - meh?
I love all the people dancing around with the idea of voting Robz but not doing it.
I think it’s because here is such little difference between him and jimm it’s hard to pick one and they you start doubting why you are voting thinking of voting hemcincthe first place.
Yeah, ok. But like the LaLight votes feel as if they are people saying, "yeah, Robz is a good lynch....Look! LaLight! Let's try a New Thing here right at the deadline" (or approaching the deadline)
Haven't read everything in detail yet, but from a skim if the reasons against LL are just that he hasn't done much, I want to say that I think LL is very readable once he actually gets around to posting. He's been scum, what, 3 games in a row now? And correctly lynched each time.
And we've learned (or at least I've learned) that a couple things I used to think were towntells for him aren't.
Did you forget about the game you modded? He was town there...and this has been said before.
Vote: LLUE moves his vote off Robz here and onto a new LL wagon, I noticed him doing this constantly last game around the ends of days as scum. Might not be anything but I want to note this.
Just to see where this goes.
I’m not sold on raerae, but not opposed, there does seem to be a difference since last game, including a much more artificial anti shraye vibe. Like, going after people that think shraeye is town over aggressively analyzing shraeye... I dunno, just feels off.
Asher interests me, as does space.
And the trio of LL, Robz, Jimmmmm, are always interesting. LL being a new addition to that bucket of players since the other two are apparently consistent in play, but LL is joining for no reason. And his excuse is that people are hard to read. Come on, now, LL that never stopped you from making an LL-Bucket, tell me where I can find a scum in X-people. I need my daily intake of foreword slashes.
It was a super stretch of an analysis on what felt like a very-unimportant point, which was that faust revealed his thought process regarding Dukat.
Why do you say in like every third post that my reasoning on faust is awful?
Did you forget about the game you modded? He was town there...and this has been said before.
Actually I did. He died so early and to be fair he had a private QT, which is pretty scummy!
Why the need to say "this has been said before?"
PPE 1: Yay I made a good case! But Uncle's the last person that I want to agree with me, he's already on that wagon...
Because you should've known this extra piece of information from this game as well? And because I found forgetting that to be weird. Do you want me to quote it? I'm 100% sure it happened.
I'd say Robbz is probably my #1 skumread at the moment.
Because you should've known this extra piece of information from this game as well? And because I found forgetting that to be weird. Do you want me to quote it? I'm 100% sure it happened.
So it's weirder for me not to remember something that was said in thread than something from a game I modded?
Why would you quote it, what would that accomplish? Do you think I'm denying that someone said LaLight was a mason in my game? Do you think I'm denying it happened?
It didn't feel super-unimportant, it felt very un-faust. And it's a misrep to say that it's because he revealed his thought process, it's about what his thought process was.I *am* trying to discredit it, isn't that obvious? Scum want to make these baseless spread-suspicion cases. So I'm saying it's a baseless case, you seemed chuffed to pieces that you made it and played a game with it, that feels like the sort of thing scum would be up to.
Reads aren't less valid because they happen in the first 24 hours. And you've said a lot more about my read being bad than I said about it in the first place, you keep repeating this like you're trying to discredit it.
It's not about moving your vote around, it's about moving pressure off people you don't really want to lynch toward the end of the day.
And it's not really for you, it's for people to notice late game if, for example, Robz flips scum and I'm dead.
It didn't feel super-unimportant, it felt very un-faust. And it's a misrep to say that it's because he revealed his thought process, it's about what his thought process was.I *am* trying to discredit it, isn't that obvious? Scum want to make these baseless spread-suspicion cases. So I'm saying it's a baseless case, you seemed chuffed to pieces that you made it and played a game with it, that feels like the sort of thing scum would be up to.
Reads aren't less valid because they happen in the first 24 hours. And you've said a lot more about my read being bad than I said about it in the first place, you keep repeating this like you're trying to discredit it.
The Jimmmmmmmmmmmmmm wagon seems dumb, and I'm only really convinced Awaclus is reading the game of the people on it. Seems very lazy.
I think raerae is town, a lot of people jumped in and sort of fanned the flames with this civility argument and she ducked out until it was over with just voicing a bit of support. Townreading UE over laughing at her joke, and her pointing out MiX's calling for her to vote Jimmmm while moving his vote elsewhere. Also, animals are better than humans.
I'm not sure Umbrage is on LaLight's scummy list, but I think I am.
LaLight's reads are a whole lot of nothing; MiX makes a good point.
That's what I'm working out... Eddie (it's so hard for me to call you that, but it seems somehow appropriate here?)
That's what I'm working out... Eddie (it's so hard for me to call you that, but it seems somehow appropriate here?)
edventually?
I'm not sure Umbrage is on LaLight's scummy list, but I think I am.
LaLight's reads are a whole lot of nothing; MiX makes a good point.
How is LL having a bunch of nulls different from anybody else having a bunch?
I'm not sure Umbrage is on LaLight's scummy list, but I think I am.
LaLight's reads are a whole lot of nothing; MiX makes a good point.
How is LL having a bunch of nulls different from anybody else having a bunch?
It's the "why bother writing it?" aspect. That and it seemed to be written in a way that sounded like a reads list. The fact that it took me a second read to see how fluff it was raises my suspicion.
NEVER
also
Vote: LaLight
L-6
I do not think LaLight is scum
I am more interested in e's town case on LL.
I do not think LaLight is scumcongrats.
I am more interested in e's town case on LL.
What this gentleman said.
I am more interested in e's town case on LL.
What this gentleman said.
First things first...if we are to lynch LaLight and actually getting a scum flip, we need to become one. This means uniting in reads, which here means dismantling e's scumread on Robz, or at least put it to null where it belongs...
That doesn't follow. Town can converge on a good wagon for disparate reasons. Why do you care what people think of robz if they aren't voting him? Do you think shraeye or I should get off the wagon? We disagree with each other.unvote
I am more interested in e's town case on LL.
What this gentleman said.
First things first...if we are to lynch LaLight and actually getting a scum flip, we need to become one. This means uniting in reads, which here means dismantling e's scumread on Robz, or at least put it to null where it belongs...
I am more interested in e's town case on LL.
What this gentleman said.
First things first...if we are to lynch LaLight and actually getting a scum flip, we need to become one. This means uniting in reads, which here means dismantling e's scumread on Robz, or at least put it to null where it belongs...
you are that confident LaLight is scum?
That doesn't follow. Town can converge on a good wagon for disparate reasons. Why do you care what people think of robz if they aren't voting him? Do you think shraeye or I should get off the wagon? We disagree with each other.
Put another way, MiX, why do you care?
I am more interested in e's town case on LL.
What this gentleman said.
First things first...if we are to lynch LaLight and actually getting a scum flip, we need to become one. This means uniting in reads, which here means dismantling e's scumread on Robz, or at least put it to null where it belongs...
We don’t have to eliminate all scumreads but one to vote from someone, e can find people scummy and vote for other scummy people. I don’t need to know why e finds Robz scummy if they will vote for LL.
I just want to know why LL is towny so I can move my vote as needed.
I will literally vote for anyone as deadline approaches to get a lynch through
@faust, do you have anything else on jimmmmmm other than the claim question/reason you originally voted?I did not like the waz he responded to the post by basically saying "look other people do it too" and implicitly accusing me of having ulterior motives without voting for me.
@faust, do you have anything else on jimmmmmm other than the claim question/reason you originally voted?I did not like the waz he responded to the post by basically saying "look other people do it too" and implicitly accusing me of having ulterior motives without voting for me.
The Jimmmmmmmmmmmmmm wagon seems dumb, and I'm only really convinced Awaclus is reading the game of the people on it. Seems very lazy.You don't think I'm reading the game? Was Awaclus ever voting for Jimmmmm? I am very confused.
We should at least have some sort of counterwagon if at all possible. The many single votes don't help (yes I know, I'm one of them, but I don't want to go to e and that's like the only other option right now).
The Jimmmmmmmmmmmmmm wagon seems dumb, and I'm only really convinced Awaclus is reading the game of the people on it. Seems very lazy.You don't think I'm reading the game? Was Awaclus ever voting for Jimmmmm? I am very confused.
Also the LaLight wagon is lazier than Jimmmmm. And LaLight is not around on the weekends, so it's likely that he won't even be able to address it.
We should at least have some sort of counterwagon if at all possible. The many single votes don't help (yes I know, I'm one of them, but I don't want to go to e and that's like the only other option right now).
What we need is the single voters to consolidate....not the LL people to just switch, is that right?
@faust, do you have anything else on jimmmmmm other than the claim question/reason you originally voted?I did not like the waz he responded to the post by basically saying "look other people do it too" and implicitly accusing me of having ulterior motives without voting for me.
The Jimmmmmmmmmmmmmm wagon seems dumb, and I'm only really convinced Awaclus is reading the game of the people on it. Seems very lazy.You don't think I'm reading the game? Was Awaclus ever voting for Jimmmmm? I am very confused.
Also the LaLight wagon is lazier than Jimmmmm. And LaLight is not around on the weekends, so it's likely that he won't even be able to address it.
Ah, you're right...damn, I forgot about weekend thing. But why is it lazy? It has the best case of everyone around here...unless the Jimmmm case is better? I don't think it is...
I would swap to Jimmmmm if necessary but I think we need EVERYONE on LL, that's really the only way this is happening.
PPE 2?; I guess also Robz? I don't get the Robz part...
The Jimmmmmmmmmmmmmm wagon seems dumb, and I'm only really convinced Awaclus is reading the game of the people on it. Seems very lazy.You don't think I'm reading the game? Was Awaclus ever voting for Jimmmmm? I am very confused.
Also the LaLight wagon is lazier than Jimmmmm. And LaLight is not around on the weekends, so it's likely that he won't even be able to address it.
The Jimmmmmmmmmmmmmm wagon seems dumb, and I'm only really convinced Awaclus is reading the game of the people on it. Seems very lazy.You don't think I'm reading the game? Was Awaclus ever voting for Jimmmmm? I am very confused.
Also the LaLight wagon is lazier than Jimmmmm. And LaLight is not around on the weekends, so it's likely that he won't even be able to address it.
Ah, you're right...damn, I forgot about weekend thing. But why is it lazy? It has the best case of everyone around here...unless the Jimmmm case is better? I don't think it is...
I would swap to Jimmmmm if necessary but I think we need EVERYONE on LL, that's really the only way this is happening.
PPE 2?; I guess also Robz? I don't get the Robz part...
"Best" is subjective, remember that. Is there anybody you WON'T vote for?
You don't think I'm reading the game? Was Awaclus ever voting for Jimmmmm? I am very confused.
Also the LaLight wagon is lazier than Jimmmmm. And LaLight is not around on the weekends, so it's likely that he won't even be able to address it.
So, e, did you ever get around to rereading LaLight?
So, e, did you ever get around to rereading LaLight?
Not yet. I will after this game of Dominion that I am playing
vote: LL
vote: LL
What do you have to say now that there's a bunch of people trying to lynch you? Can you explain how you've been pro-town D1, for example?
Unfortunately I am not expecting being superactive on D1, sorry. I will get to it eventually unless I'm killed or lynched
I thought Didds was committed to lynching Robz.
vote: Robz
I am committeed to a lynch. I am willing to vote for LL, Robz, or Asher. I won't vote for Jimmmm today.
So, LaLight has not been very active at all. That means
1) They are scum and just uncomfortable and slightly meh at being scum so many times recently
2) They are town and just busy and finding a hard time to get into the game like they said
I think that throwing LaLight in category 1 is basically lazy and that they can be super helpful to keep around later in the day. That being said, nothing really stood out as "LaLight is town!" or "LaLight is scum!"
Just kind of LaLight is....not really around.
@e So would you say your read on LL changed in any way?
That's fair, Eddie.vote: Robz
I am committeed to a lynch. I am willing to vote for LL, Robz, or Asher. I won't vote for Jimmmm today.
Again, why?
People are drawing weird distinctions between people and I am not seeing it.
We have a camp of Robz supporters/Jimmmm Supporters/LL Supporters and all of them are pretty lackluster in terms of defenses. Or even offenses on the other.
Why is Jimmm completely off limits?
So, LaLight has not been very active at all. That means
1) They are scum and just uncomfortable and slightly meh at being scum so many times recently
2) They are town and just busy and finding a hard time to get into the game like they said
I think that throwing LaLight in category 1 is basically lazy and that they can be super helpful to keep around later in the day. That being said, nothing really stood out as "LaLight is town!" or "LaLight is scum!"
Just kind of LaLight is....not really around.
I agree with all of this e. Is it any different for Robz?
I am just never going to support a faust lynch on Day 1, unless I'm overwhelmingly certain he is scum, which is an unlikely position for me to be in. The reason is his reads are significantly better than the average town player, which means he's worth preserving more than almost anyone else. Also, scum know this, and often shoot him at their first chance. Lets not do scums' job for them.3. His "useful" vote one me. (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19459.msg790600#msg790600) Just to wagon and lynch someone as helpful town. And then re-emphasized that is vote is all about utility and getting a lynch (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19459.msg791008#msg791008) (as evidenced again by his convenient move to LaLight)
Honestly I would probably support no lynch over a faust lynch, even though I hate no lynching on Day 1.
vote: LL
What do you have to say now that there's a bunch of people trying to lynch you? Can you explain how you've been pro-town D1, for example?
vote: LL
What do you have to say now that there's a bunch of people trying to lynch you? Can you explain how you've been pro-town D1, for example?
And by a bunch he really just means one really loud e that is making your wagon sound a lot larger than it is.
So, LaLight has not been very active at all. That means
1) They are scum and just uncomfortable and slightly meh at being scum so many times recently
2) They are town and just busy and finding a hard time to get into the game like they said
I think that throwing LaLight in category 1 is basically lazy and that they can be super helpful to keep around later in the day. That being said, nothing really stood out as "LaLight is town!" or "LaLight is scum!"
Just kind of LaLight is....not really around.
I agree with all of this e. Is it any different for Robz?
yes. Robz has a couple things that I find scummy.
1) His self-aware meta post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19459.msg789951#msg789951)
2) I don't really like his stance on faust here (basically pre-arguing that if faust isn't NKed he must be scum):I am just never going to support a faust lynch on Day 1, unless I'm overwhelmingly certain he is scum, which is an unlikely position for me to be in. The reason is his reads are significantly better than the average town player, which means he's worth preserving more than almost anyone else. Also, scum know this, and often shoot him at their first chance. Lets not do scums' job for them.3. His "useful" vote one me. (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19459.msg790600#msg790600) Just to wagon and lynch someone as helpful town. And then re-emphasized that is vote is all about utility and getting a lynch (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19459.msg791008#msg791008) (as evidenced again by his convenient move to LaLight)
Honestly I would probably support no lynch over a faust lynch, even though I hate no lynching on Day 1.
As for your LL reread...well, clearly he's not active. But I really don't see an attempt at reversing that...Space did it, for example. LaLight's attempt to do so was a botched attempt to make a reads list which just has a bunch of nulls...something I expected if it was early in the day, but it wasn't.
So, LaLight has not been very active at all. That means
1) They are scum and just uncomfortable and slightly meh at being scum so many times recently
2) They are town and just busy and finding a hard time to get into the game like they said
I think that throwing LaLight in category 1 is basically lazy and that they can be super helpful to keep around later in the day. That being said, nothing really stood out as "LaLight is town!" or "LaLight is scum!"
Just kind of LaLight is....not really around.
I agree with all of this e. Is it any different for Robz?
yes. Robz has a couple things that I find scummy.
1) His self-aware meta post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19459.msg789951#msg789951)
2) I don't really like his stance on faust here (basically pre-arguing that if faust isn't NKed he must be scum):I am just never going to support a faust lynch on Day 1, unless I'm overwhelmingly certain he is scum, which is an unlikely position for me to be in. The reason is his reads are significantly better than the average town player, which means he's worth preserving more than almost anyone else. Also, scum know this, and often shoot him at their first chance. Lets not do scums' job for them.3. His "useful" vote one me. (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19459.msg790600#msg790600) Just to wagon and lynch someone as helpful town. And then re-emphasized that is vote is all about utility and getting a lynch (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19459.msg791008#msg791008) (as evidenced again by his convenient move to LaLight)
Honestly I would probably support no lynch over a faust lynch, even though I hate no lynching on Day 1.
This is always always always my stance on Faust though.
Hey MiX, since you like my enigmatic questions so much, why do you think Uncleeurope and I were both more interested in e's LaLight read than his Robz read?
So, LaLight has not been very active at all. That means
1) They are scum and just uncomfortable and slightly meh at being scum so many times recently
2) They are town and just busy and finding a hard time to get into the game like they said
I think that throwing LaLight in category 1 is basically lazy and that they can be super helpful to keep around later in the day. That being said, nothing really stood out as "LaLight is town!" or "LaLight is scum!"
Just kind of LaLight is....not really around.
I agree with all of this e. Is it any different for Robz?
yes. Robz has a couple things that I find scummy.
1) His self-aware meta post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19459.msg789951#msg789951)
2) I don't really like his stance on faust here (basically pre-arguing that if faust isn't NKed he must be scum):I am just never going to support a faust lynch on Day 1, unless I'm overwhelmingly certain he is scum, which is an unlikely position for me to be in. The reason is his reads are significantly better than the average town player, which means he's worth preserving more than almost anyone else. Also, scum know this, and often shoot him at their first chance. Lets not do scums' job for them.3. His "useful" vote one me. (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19459.msg790600#msg790600) Just to wagon and lynch someone as helpful town. And then re-emphasized that is vote is all about utility and getting a lynch (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19459.msg791008#msg791008) (as evidenced again by his convenient move to LaLight)
Honestly I would probably support no lynch over a faust lynch, even though I hate no lynching on Day 1.
This is always always always my stance on Faust though.
vote: LL
What do you have to say now that there's a bunch of people trying to lynch you? Can you explain how you've been pro-town D1, for example?
And by a bunch he really just means one really loud e that is making your wagon sound a lot larger than it is.
Well, there's 2, then ., then 7, then 1, then 8, then 2, then 8... But I remember others talking about it, right?
As for your LL reread...well, clearly he's not active. But I really don't see an attempt at reversing that...Space did it, for example. LaLight's attempt to do so was a botched attempt to make a reads list which just has a bunch of nulls...something I expected if it was early in the day, but it wasn't. There were enough posts to talk about each person and at least say what he thought about them...we were left with barely any information about LL's thoughts and/or thought process, and that for me screams "eh, I'm not active anyway, I have an excuse to not do much this day, it's D1 anyway, 18 players how likely is it for me to get lynched", which is pretty scummy.
PPE too many, why Robz and not Jimmmmmmm? At least Jimmmmmmm has that weird comment that faust pointed out, Robz has nothing. And didn't we establish that that was part of his meta, both as town and scum? At least that's what I remember...
I'll copy faust and say that Robz votes are the laziest of them all, there's nothing on him. Nothing. Unless I missed something????? I still haven't heard e's reasons to vote for Robz!
Yes: everyone that isn't on my read list. So I'll vote for LL, Jimmmmmm, Robz, e in that order...ah and Space. And then you, if people really want to... That's all. It's a lot of people, isn't it? But I prefer a flip to nothing here, at least we should try...
Hey MiX, since you like my enigmatic questions so much, why do you think Uncleeurope and I were both more interested in e's LaLight read than his Robz read?
Because...no I have no idea. Is it something e said earlier in the day? Would have to reread...
I’m caught up. I take back the plan comment, clearly not after all the continued discussion. If it had just disappeared poof style it would have seemed not genuine.
Shraeye is silly but not scummy, even though his vote on me is pointless and misguided. The ferengi thing wasn’t a plan so much as thought based on a misread.
I think raerae is a good day one lynch today — she’s ensured her only memorable interactions are with one (towny) player and hasn’t added any content otherwise.
vote: raerae anyone?
So how does that makes me an informative lynch for town? You're proposing a lynch of somebody who's few interactions are with somebody you have a townread on. That seems exceedingly unhelpful to town.
Vote: ash
vote: LL
What do you have to say now that there's a bunch of people trying to lynch you? Can you explain how you've been pro-town D1, for example?
I feel like Robz, LL, Jimm, and Ashes have all been similarly low level players and we wouldn't miss any of them at this point. Any of them could be awesome later. In fact, all of them would likely be awesome later. Jimmmm is/was mostly in trouble for sticking up for me, so I am not gonna vote for him today. I am okay if all of you do, though.
I feel like Robz, LL, Jimm, and Ashes have all been similarly low level players and we wouldn't miss any of them at this point. Any of them could be awesome later. In fact, all of them would likely be awesome later. Jimmmm is/was mostly in trouble for sticking up for me, so I am not gonna vote for him today. I am okay if all of you do, though.
Could you clarify what you mean by “low level” players? I know I took a long break, so I can’t be sure what happened during that time, but even removing myself from that list to shave off bias, none of those players make a list of low level players were I to ever make one. They are all well-established, strong players who I think are well-liked and well-respected.
I've got my automatic vote counter working now, and agree with WCD's count
I also agree with the currently-edited state of all the mod counts except 1.1, which counted the number of "Not Voting" players incorrectly. (There are 10, but the count beside "Not Voting" says 9).
Vote: JimmmmAre you moving your vote around to ensure that nobody gets lynched at this point. You seem to 'throw things out there', but at this point it just looks like you're trying to divide and play against any kind of united front.
Robz888 -- Actually, his inactivity here doesn't feel totally like it did in RMM51. Here he seems to be reading and sheeping, rather than too busy to be present. I certainly have sympathy for people who find interacting with a big group on D1 tough, but that's not really the vibe I get from him either. Of the major wagons that I haven't ruled out, he's looking the most votable.I really don't like this trying to create a scumread out of nothing. Robz is a lurker lynch, that's fine, but I don't think there is much of anything to scumread, and it reads like fake justification. I don't suppose we could get a Space wagon?
Let's do it.
Vote: Space
Then why is he on your "would lynch" list??? Your reads are EVERYWHERE. I'm inherently mistrustful of being on any lynch with you because you just keep jumping to the one gaining the most steam. Frankly, it makes me what to vote for whoever you DON'T want to vote for.
Robz888 -- Actually, his inactivity here doesn't feel totally like it did in RMM51. Here he seems to be reading and sheeping, rather than too busy to be present. I certainly have sympathy for people who find interacting with a big group on D1 tough, but that's not really the vibe I get from him either. Of the major wagons that I haven't ruled out, he's looking the most votable.I really don't like this trying to create a scumread out of nothing. Robz is a lurker lynch, that's fine, but I don't think there is much of anything to scumread, and it reads like fake justification. I don't suppose we could get a Space wagon?
Robz888 -- Actually, his inactivity here doesn't feel totally like it did in RMM51. Here he seems to be reading and sheeping, rather than too busy to be present. I certainly have sympathy for people who find interacting with a big group on D1 tough, but that's not really the vibe I get from him either. Of the major wagons that I haven't ruled out, he's looking the most votable.I really don't like this trying to create a scumread out of nothing. Robz is a lurker lynch, that's fine, but I don't think there is much of anything to scumread, and it reads like fake justification. I don't suppose we could get a Space wagon?
Robz at L-1?
Good morning! The question for the moment is why can't cats make coffee? Le sigh...
Robz at L-1?
Good morning! The question for the moment is why can't cats make coffee? Le sigh...
Robz at L-1?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kopi_Luwak
They make the most expensive coffee in the world.
So anyone interested in killing Space?
Hmm. So that happened. L-1. Well it was bound to happen.
I don't think we can move enough people to either LL or Space anymore...which is unfortunate.
Who's here? Me, e, Glooble, Awaclus, Space, Didds, Jimmmmm, Uncle, ashersky(?), faust, chicken. So we can lynch whoever we want, given the time. Okay, I need to reread Robz.
PPE 1: This reminds me, whoever makes the best case on Robz (or points to the best case on Robz (not e's)) gets the grand prize of me sheeping them. Go!
As I said, I would prefer LL or Jimmmm but Robz looked like it could actually happen. Also if we wait to hammer until right before deadline we run the risk of Robz being Morn and no lynch happening anyway.
@joth, raerae has a vote too! And I think it's on Jimmmmmmmm but could be wrong.
Non-Robz lynches aren't realistically going to happen with 40 minutes left and 10 people required for the lynch to go through.
Non-Robz lynches aren't realistically going to happen with 40 minutes left and 10 people required for the lynch to go through.
But what if we believe with our heart of hearts and the power of will?
Non-Robz lynches aren't realistically going to happen with 40 minutes left and 10 people required for the lynch to go through.
But what if we believe with our heart of hearts and the power of will?
First hammer in awhile.
Not the best lynch, but seemed to be the only lynch.
Looking forward to the “that was a scummy hammer” arguments tomorrow.
***FEDERATION NEWS SERVICE DISPATCH***
And now, an update on the developing story on Deep Space Nine. We at the FNS believe readers have a right to know their news is coming from reputable sources -- not from Changeling inflitrators, Maquis spies, or Mirror Universe doubles. So we have carefully vetted and tested our ace reporter Jake Sisko (Robz888). You can trust him. He's not a part of this war. He's just an innocent child.
I am alive D2!
All the cool people seemed to be celebrating.
Robz should have claimed, not going to apologize for anything about the wagon yesterday, time to find scum today
Robz should have claimed, not going to apologize for anything about the wagon yesterday, time to find scum todayIt's true that Robz misplayed, but that doesn't absolve you from the responsibility of having misread him.
Forgive me if this was already answered, but what would happen if scum inherited the IC role?
Since I did not see this answered anywhere...
If a scum UB inherits Kira Nerys's role, will they be 1-shot Vig or 1-shot BP?
LaLight (2): Shraeye, Robz888
Robz888 (10): 2.71828....., WestCoastDidds, UmbrageofSnow, SpaceAnemone, chickenwarlord, DatSwan, Awaclus, Glooble, Jimmmmm, ashersky
Jimmmmm (1): raerae
raerae (1): mcmcsalot
2.71828..... (1): LaLight
SpaceAnemone (3): faust, Uncleeurope, MiX
Robz888 -- Actually, his inactivity here doesn't feel totally like it did in RMM51. Here he seems to be reading and sheeping, rather than too busy to be present. I certainly have sympathy for people who find interacting with a big group on D1 tough, but that's not really the vibe I get from him either. Of the major wagons that I haven't ruled out, he's looking the most votable.
vote: Robz
I am committeed to a lynch. I am willing to vote for LL, Robz, or Asher. I won't vote for Jimmmm today.
Space [...] she
Space [...] she
Uhoh. Quick, ninja edit! Oh you can't.
Space votes Robz next, after posting a reads list. I'm gonna quote part of it because I found it a little weird:
Robz888 -- Actually, his inactivity here doesn't feel totally like it did in RMM51. Here he seems to be reading and sheeping, rather than too busy to be present. I certainly have sympathy for people who find interacting with a big group on D1 tough, but that's not really the vibe I get from him either. Of the major wagons that I haven't ruled out, he's looking the most votable.
So they're saying he's not acting like he did when he was scum, which seems like a reason not to vote for him, but then she does vote for him. Also worth noting that this is the vote that tips the Robz wagon from the same size as the LL wagon to the biggest wagon.
Robz888 -- Actually, his inactivity here doesn't feel totally like it did in RMM51. Here he seems to be reading and sheeping, rather than too busy to be present. I certainly have sympathy for people who find interacting with a big group on D1 tough, but that's not really the vibe I get from him either. Of the major wagons that I haven't ruled out, he's looking the most votable.I really don't like this trying to create a scumread out of nothing. Robz is a lurker lynch, that's fine, but I don't think there is much of anything to scumread, and it reads like fake justification. I don't suppose we could get a Space wagon?
I was not really trying to present a sudden scumread on Robz at all. I explicitly said that I feel he's not playing like RMM51 (where he was scum).. I just don't think that's enough of a justification for not voting for him, given that I needed to move for consolidation. I also said (in the Glooble and e parts of my reread that you haven't quoted above) that I agree with a bunch of stuff e's said on Robz.
If you want to present a better case on someone then I'm here till deadline and willing to move if there's a stronger justification than what I've seen so far. That goes for cases on people other than on me.. I'm still not sure self-voting is ever a good thing for town.
didn't read it all but I agree with didds being suspicious, her vote was reeeeally weird
Space [...] she
Uhoh. Quick, ninja edit! Oh you can't.
Sorry Space.
Space votes Robz next, after posting a reads list. I'm gonna quote part of it because I found it a little weird:I already addressed this before the end of D1 when faust was confused about my post:
Robz888 -- Actually, his inactivity here doesn't feel totally like it did in RMM51. Here he seems to be reading and sheeping, rather than too busy to be present. I certainly have sympathy for people who find interacting with a big group on D1 tough, but that's not really the vibe I get from him either. Of the major wagons that I haven't ruled out, he's looking the most votable.
So they're saying he's not acting like he did when he was scum, which seems like a reason not to vote for him, but then she does vote for him. Also worth noting that this is the vote that tips the Robz wagon from the same size as the LL wagon to the biggest wagon.
As I said previously, I always jump around a lot as town and then get called scum for doing so. I refuse to accept inevitabilities and think it is much more informative if people treat days as if multiple options exist rather than it being an inevitability that someone will be lynched. Treating things as if they are inevitable is a strong play for scum to mislynch without fear.
On to today, Space is suspicious, WCD, raerae, and LL are eyebrow raisers for me.
Vote: Space
@MiX, my post might make more sense if you read it as several spaced-out chronological re-reads
The rest are fine, but I have a feeling e needs to be there, just because of how he NEVER moved from Robz, ever ever ever, even when LL and Space wagons were being viable...
The rest are fine, but I have a feeling e needs to be there, just because of how he NEVER moved from Robz, ever ever ever, even when LL and Space wagons were being viable...
Why do you think this is scummy?
I assume scum can make wagons push harder since they have 3 votes instead of 1, e pushing Robz all day and succeding might've been due to that. It's incredibly weak but at least it's based on evidence.
I assume scum can make wagons push harder since they have 3 votes instead of 1, e pushing Robz all day and succeding might've been due to that. It's incredibly weak but at least it's based on evidence.
What's the evidence?
The votes are evidence of scum?
Or just evidence of votes existing?
Is this different than me quoting a post of Ash's and saying "look, he uses 2 commas here, so he's more likely to be scum than average."
I have evidence, I can point at the quote and all those commas. How is this different?
"based on evidence" means it's not just gut reads, it's bound to the votes, and you can't change those: they exist regardless of each player's metas.
Quoting a post like that has a premise: that ash uses 2 commas more as scum. This has no relevence to the game.... using votes like I did has another premise: that e would be on Robz all day because he's scum. But it also has "scum would help other scum push the wagon they want", and you can't deny this, it's not based on e's meta in any way.That's the whole reason I'm using this as an example. What's your evidence that scum!e is more likely to be on Robz than town!e? Because you are making that assertion and claiming it's backed by evidence, but the evidence is just that that's what happened in the game.
Now that I say this, it looks ridiculous...why would scum care about lynching Robz and not LL or Space? There's some WIFOM reasons but...okay this is stupid.Yes, this is where I was going. And I don't feel like deleting my stuff I already typed either. So fine. Awkwardbros.
Well, that means I'll just stick with my null/towny (don't wanna say it) read on e. Thanks!
(This post is awkward. I haven't paid enough attention to this game this day...)
Robz, can't defend against that, I really haven't done much this game, it's big and intimidating and most of the conversation has been setup so I commented when I had something to say but was definitely content to sit back and wait until it progressed to something I can chime in on. Like today. This is the stuff I get and so I'm talking now.
Progress! I was rereading raerae, when I found this...Robz, can't defend against that, I really haven't done much this game, it's big and intimidating and most of the conversation has been setup so I commented when I had something to say but was definitely content to sit back and wait until it progressed to something I can chime in on. Like today. This is the stuff I get and so I'm talking now.
But she meant to reply to me. Is this useful?
Anyway, she spends D1 interacting with shraeye, me and a little bit of faust. Or at least most of what she said was to or about one of these 3 players...In M121 she also did that, but much, much less (she still interacted more with me and shraeye but more with other players, relatively). So...@raerae, was this intentional?
Rereading takes so much effort...with all of this I basically determined raerae did nothing D1 other than talk to 3 people. Great. Is this towny or scummy? I'm leaning on the scummy side, but I don't know...
What is scummy is her complete lack of reads, she was only voting because faust "convinced" her, which means she doesn't even need to explain why her vote was there (not like I blame people finding Jimmmmmmmmm scummy, since I did). Unless you count her ash vote, which was the only thing she did out of her own initiative (at least from what I'm seeing) which is...sheeping shraeye and OMGUS. It's not looking good for her, I think I like this case more than the one I made for Space. At least she admits it? But then she just sheeps faust.
@raerae, what was your reason to vote Jimmmmmm?
Well, Vote: raerae because I feel like I'm being unfair to Space...but FoS: Space for, well, what I said before.
Is there anything setup related that's good to discuss now? I was going to bring up things related to the IC but...yeah. So not sure what to say. I've asked my share of questions and reread my share of rereads, I'll lay low for now.
Hoping people don’t reread is rarely going to be a scum!plan, so I would imagine that isn’t the driving force there...
You were very “go with the flow” yesterday as a whole and we have to determine if that is indicative of alignment or not. And while your defense was heard, it doesn’t change my opinions of the actions fully.
I do see one for raerae, just because she's not doing much, and I remember her doing a LOT more in M121, am I wrong? I don't think I am...but this could very well be null, I don't know...
So how does that makes me an informative lynch for town? You're proposing a lynch of somebody who's few interactions are with somebody you have a townread on. That seems exceedingly unhelpful to town.
@Space, what were your scumreads at the time? How about now?
I can't quote all this shit, here's the post I was replying to, we're both wrong, I should have said mcmc, you know, Robz' brother. His was post #673, mine was #675, yours was #653 so no, it isn't clear I was replying to you by using a name you aren't associated with 25 posts later.
So me saying I haven't done that much this game is a mistake? But isn't that why you're voting for me?
Re: M121, entirely different game, fewer players, far less setup speculation, it was easier for me to jump back into playing that because we were mostly just bullshitting. Plus, I hadn't just led town to their demise so I was more optimistic about my abilities.
re:sheeping shraeye and my ash vote, how can I be both sheeping and OMGUSing? I'm OMGUSing on behalf of a shraeye, I'm agreeing with shraeye's OMGUS? Dude, I hope you warmed up because you are stretching so hard right now it's insane. Also, don't, I can't say this strongly enough, if I say something is or isn't OMGUS (or anything else for that matter), you don't fucking get to rename it so it fits your narrative better. You don't get to decide my feelings on a subject for me.
I missed your question about Jimmmmm, I don't know why it's even a question though, I sold my vote to faust who told me to vote Jimmmmm. His case wasn't terrible so I agreed to the deal. This is public knowledge, why are you confused?
On to today, Space is suspicious, WCD, raerae, and LL are eyebrow raisers for me.
I can't quote all this shit, here's the post I was replying to, we're both wrong, I should have said mcmc, you know, Robz' brother. His was post #673, mine was #675, yours was #653 so no, it isn't clear I was replying to you by using a name you aren't associated with 25 posts later.
So me saying I haven't done that much this game is a mistake? But isn't that why you're voting for me?
Re: M121, entirely different game, fewer players, far less setup speculation, it was easier for me to jump back into playing that because we were mostly just bullshitting. Plus, I hadn't just led town to their demise so I was more optimistic about my abilities.
re:sheeping shraeye and my ash vote, how can I be both sheeping and OMGUSing? I'm OMGUSing on behalf of a shraeye, I'm agreeing with shraeye's OMGUS? Dude, I hope you warmed up because you are stretching so hard right now it's insane. Also, don't, I can't say this strongly enough, if I say something is or isn't OMGUS (or anything else for that matter), you don't fucking get to rename it so it fits your narrative better. You don't get to decide my feelings on a subject for me.
I missed your question about Jimmmmm, I don't know why it's even a question though, I sold my vote to faust who told me to vote Jimmmmm. His case wasn't terrible so I agreed to the deal. This is public knowledge, why are you confused?
Ha. I have to admit I didn't look for whatever post you where refering to, I just found a good non-Robz that I remembered (because I wrote it). Well that's awkward.
Now that EFHW has replaced LL, I think there are more non-males playing now than in any other f.ds mafia game I've seen.
Hoping people don’t reread is rarely going to be a scum!plan, so I would imagine that isn’t the driving force there...
You were very “go with the flow” yesterday as a whole and we have to determine if that is indicative of alignment or not. And while your defense was heard, it doesn’t change my opinions of the actions fully.
So MiX is town because he's wrong?
On to today, Space is suspicious, WCD, raerae, and LL are eyebrow raisers for me.
This is also exactly the set of players who admitted to having been bothered by the conflict discussion yesterday. Have you considered whether you might be reading conflict aversion or other non-masculine behaviours as scummy given that you yourself might be looking at the game from a slightly more masculine perspective?
Now that EFHW has replaced LL, I think there are more non-males playing now than in any other f.ds mafia game I've seen.
I can't quote all this shit, here's the post I was replying to, we're both wrong, I should have said mcmc, you know, Robz' brother. His was post #673, mine was #675, yours was #653 so no, it isn't clear I was replying to you by using a name you aren't associated with 25 posts later.
So me saying I haven't done that much this game is a mistake? But isn't that why you're voting for me?
Re: M121, entirely different game, fewer players, far less setup speculation, it was easier for me to jump back into playing that because we were mostly just bullshitting. Plus, I hadn't just led town to their demise so I was more optimistic about my abilities.
re:sheeping shraeye and my ash vote, how can I be both sheeping and OMGUSing? I'm OMGUSing on behalf of a shraeye, I'm agreeing with shraeye's OMGUS? Dude, I hope you warmed up because you are stretching so hard right now it's insane. Also, don't, I can't say this strongly enough, if I say something is or isn't OMGUS (or anything else for that matter), you don't fucking get to rename it so it fits your narrative better. You don't get to decide my feelings on a subject for me.
I missed your question about Jimmmmm, I don't know why it's even a question though, I sold my vote to faust who told me to vote Jimmmmm. His case wasn't terrible so I agreed to the deal. This is public knowledge, why are you confused?
Ha. I have to admit I didn't look for whatever post you where refering to, I just found a good non-Robz that I remembered (because I wrote it). Well that's awkward.
About M121...okay? Different game makes sense? But I don't know, I had my share of completely misreading every player there...of course it didn't matter as much as your reads, but, yeah; and all I want to do is read even more players, in case I actually get it right. Shouldn't excuse you for D1, but fine...that whole post is a pretty big reaction that can hopefully be used later, so I don't need to push you more.
It's not really sheeping as it is going to a wagon where shraeye was, since shraeye was pretty towny it would be reasonable to expect it to grow. Your reason to vote ash was discredited by mcmc a few posts later, but you didn't talk about it or move immediatly; you did, however, look for alternatives (that is, you wanted to vote for Jimmmmmmm).
I don't see why you would have to be honest with your reason to vote for people if you're scum, thus I see no reason to believe if a vote was OMGUS or not based on what you say. Right? Am I being confusing here? Not that you gain anything by lying, but you're always lying when voting as scum anyway and this is no different.
As for Jimmmmmm, why did you sell your vote to faust? Why not e, me, shraeye, I don't know, anyone else? And did you simply sheep his case or did you see anything else that was scummy? That's the answer I wanted, "why did you vote for Jimmmmm" is a good catch-all question for that, I think.
I hope this back-to-back posting gives information about me and raerae? I'll read what raerae said here critically later, I have to sleep now
PPE 1: I have no idea what happened in drunk mafia...so tired...
That's true, but now we need to sort people into "misread Robz", versusRobz should have claimed, not going to apologize for anything about the wagon yesterday, time to find scum todayIt's true that Robz misplayed, but that doesn't absolve you from the responsibility of having misread him.
I will literally vote for anyone as deadline approaches to get a lynch throughversus scummy opportunism.
Chickenwarlord jumps on next. Expresses a scumread on Robz. I'd like to hear more about that, since most of the people on the wagon seem to be just trying to get a lynch, any lynch.I found this helpful, and I'm snipping the pieces that stand out to me the most. I too am very interested in a deeper explanation from chicken. Coming out of nowhere and coincidentally having a scumread on the building wagon.
tl;dr- I don't think the people at the end of this wagon are as scummy as the people who made it the wagon. Don't get me wrong, people at the end of the wagon could still be scum, the need to get a lynch is good cover. But I would bet there's scum somewhere in UoS, Space, chicken, and maybe DatSwan. Those were the people who had the opportunity, realistically, to steer the lynch elsewhere.
I'm a little suspicious of Didds now. Her explanation for voting Robz doesn't make much sense on the surface. Here:vote: Robz
I am committeed to a lynch. I am willing to vote for LL, Robz, or Asher. I won't vote for Jimmmm today.
Like, if you're committed to a lynch, why not stay on LaLight at that point? Why leave a viable wagon for one with one other person on it.
Hopefully this is helpful to somebody.
Ok, that actually clears things up better for me. Cancel my last point, carry on.didn't read it all but I agree with didds being suspicious, her vote was reeeeally weird
Not weird, just not good. Pretty much all of my choices were related low inactivity, and were obvi wrong. Robz should have claimed, there was plenty of time for us to find a better lynch had he didn’t so. But I will fully admit that I was just trying to be helpful. I left LL when enough folks said it wasn’t fair to lynch him with no internet access, etc, so while I’m on Robz early it’s because he seemed viable based on the talk even if it wants yet about votes. And I wasn’t moving to Jimmm.
Glooble, thanks for the work.
Vote: Eddie because that jumping around is crazy more strange than not.
LL, you’ll be missed. Hey, EFHW! Thanks for joining.
As I said previously, I always jump around a lot as town and then get called scum for doing so. I refuse to accept inevitabilities and think it is much more informative if people treat days as if multiple options exist rather than it being an inevitability that someone will be lynched. Treating things as if they are inevitable is a strong play for scum to mislynch without fear.Really curious about what's driving those eyebrows? Vote analysis? day-end stuff? rereading Day1?
On to today, Space is suspicious, WCD, raerae, and LL are eyebrow raisers for me.
Vote: Space
If my *unstellar* performance in M121 is any indication, stubbornness is not exclusively a scumtrait. I'm hardly sure it's a scum-trait at all.The rest are fine, but I have a feeling e needs to be there, just because of how he NEVER moved from Robz, ever ever ever, even when LL and Space wagons were being viable...
Why do you think this is scummy?
Mostly because his stubborness worked. I assume scum can make wagons push harder since they have 3 votes instead of 1, e pushing Robz all day and succeding might've been due to that. It's incredibly weak but at least it's based on evidence. I'm been procrastinating so I haven't done any (after N1 flips) rereading...sorry about that.
As I said previously, I always jump around a lot as town and then get called scum for doing so. I refuse to accept inevitabilities and think it is much more informative if people treat days as if multiple options exist rather than it being an inevitability that someone will be lynched. Treating things as if they are inevitable is a strong play for scum to mislynch without fear.Really curious about what's driving those eyebrows? Vote analysis? day-end stuff? rereading Day1?
On to today, Space is suspicious, WCD, raerae, and LL are eyebrow raisers for me.
Vote: Space
Progress! I was rereading raerae, when I found this...Robz, can't defend against that, I really haven't done much this game, it's big and intimidating and most of the conversation has been setup so I commented when I had something to say but was definitely content to sit back and wait until it progressed to something I can chime in on. Like today. This is the stuff I get and so I'm talking now.
But she meant to reply to me. Is this useful?
Anyway, she spends D1 interacting with shraeye, me and a little bit of faust. Or at least most of what she said was to or about one of these 3 players...In M121 she also did that, but much, much less (she still interacted more with me and shraeye but more with other players, relatively). So...@raerae, was this intentional?
Rereading takes so much effort...with all of this I basically determined raerae did nothing D1 other than talk to 3 people. Great. Is this towny or scummy? I'm leaning on the scummy side, but I don't know...
What is scummy is her complete lack of reads, she was only voting because faust "convinced" her, which means she doesn't even need to explain why her vote was there (not like I blame people finding Jimmmmmmmmm scummy, since I did). Unless you count her ash vote, which was the only thing she did out of her own initiative (at least from what I'm seeing) which is...sheeping shraeye and OMGUS. It's not looking good for her, I think I like this case more than the one I made for Space. At least she admits it? But then she just sheeps faust.
@raerae, what was your reason to vote Jimmmmmm?
Well, Vote: raerae because I feel like I'm being unfair to Space...but FoS: Space for, well, what I said before.
Is there anything setup related that's good to discuss now? I was going to bring up things related to the IC but...yeah. So not sure what to say. I've asked my share of questions and reread my share of rereads, I'll lay low for now.
What do you mean I meant to reply to you? I was responding to Robz, that's why I said "Robz." Also, it was D1 in an 18 player game and I very clearly said I had no reasonable reads. Why are you trying to make this out like something I was trying to hide or minimize? Also, when did I sheep shraeye? And my vote on Ash wasn't OMGUS, I think his reason for voting for me was scummy as hell and made no sense. Basically everything in your "case" is wrong, are you just hoping people will trust you and won't reread or did you really accidentally get that much stuff wrong?
You were sheeping shraeye when you voted for ash, right? Let me look at it again...You know sheeping and OMGUS are two different things right; both are "you are voting AAA only because..." so really can't exist at the same time. Yes, she voted for ash after me. That doesn't automatically mean she sheeped.So how does that makes me an informative lynch for town? You're proposing a lynch of somebody who's few interactions are with somebody you have a townread on. That seems exceedingly unhelpful to town.
So, okay, you weren't sheeping shraeye...but who else was on him? And this is definitely OMGUS, your vote is entirely dependant on knowing that you're town, lynching someone who doesn't have a lot of interactions isn't scummy, it's just necessary sometimes. But we went over this in D1...and you didn't address it. Well I think you lost your scumread on ash, but you didn't say why, not like it matters.
On to today, Space is suspicious, WCD, raerae, and LL are eyebrow raisers for me.
This is also exactly the set of players who admitted to having been bothered by the conflict discussion yesterday. Have you considered whether you might be reading conflict aversion or other non-masculine behaviours as scummy given that you yourself might be looking at the game from a slightly more masculine perspective?
Now that EFHW has replaced LL, I think there are more non-males playing now than in any other f.ds mafia game I've seen.
And this post does charge the atmosphere a bit; I can see where the post comes from, but I empathize with Uncle's reaction to it. I think it does Uncle a disservice to imply that his opinions are because of his masculinity, I don't read anything particularly aggressive or even gendered in any of Uncle's posts.On to today, Space is suspicious, WCD, raerae, and LL are eyebrow raisers for me.
This is also exactly the set of players who admitted to having been bothered by the conflict discussion yesterday. Have you considered whether you might be reading conflict aversion or other non-masculine behaviours as scummy given that you yourself might be looking at the game from a slightly more masculine perspective?
Now that EFHW has replaced LL, I think there are more non-males playing now than in any other f.ds mafia game I've seen.
Hey, I was also bothered by it. And Jimmmm. Surely others, but I recall at least both of us mentioned stuff. I would chalk this up to crazy coincidence, rather than reading conflict-aversion as scummy.
I've been reading for over an hour, still only at 661. Tomorrow I'll skip ahead to eod1 and catch up on day 2.
I don't see why you would have to be honest with your reason to vote for people if you're scum, thus I see no reason to believe if a vote was OMGUS or not based on what you say. Right? Am I being confusing here? Not that you gain anything by lying, but you're always lying when voting as scum anyway and this is no different.
Now something unrelated: @chicken, why, exactly, did you scumread Robz? Did you ever say that? I don't see it...I don't believe I ever posted my reasoning, but straight out the gate he with absolutely no supporting logic voted for me, which might have evoked a mild emotional reaction - I think I'd made 2 posts at that point and he hadn't made almost any either. At that point in time, we were two of the least active players in the game and it seemed that he was trying to draw attention away from himself just by pointing it at me.
I love all the people dancing around with the idea of voting Robz but not doing it.
Same.
Space, move your vote to someone who is actually getting lynched maybe.
EBWOP: So do Ashersky's commas.
What is wrong with me?
I don’t really know what you mean, you may be viewing this game using masculine/feminine, but I am not. I am basing my reads on activity and content. Implying that I lack empathy/discernment helps nothing.I think ignoring whatever outside biases you may have makes you worse at this game. If you come up with a scum list and all of the people on it share a certain non game-related characteristic - and it does not matter whether this is gender, age, activity level, native language or something else - then you should absolutely critically evaluate whether there is a bias that makes you scumread this particular set of players. This has not so much to do with identity politics as it has with being a good player. I don't think Space ever meant to imply that you lack empathy and don't see where you got that impression.
Chickenwarlord, can you tell me what your top scumreads are right now?Chicken is fine as a nickname.
Also, what do you want to be your nickname? Chicken sounds a little... insulting maybe, is that fine for you? We could also do CWL I guess.
Datswan votes for Robz because he doesn't want his vote to go to waste and he doesn't want to lynch Space.Glooble clearly felt that after Awaclus's vote, there was no way for an alternate wagon to succeed. DatSwan is up there too, epsecially because he made it clear that his vote was final, but I really think Awaclus drove this mislynch home. So, we should all be voting Awaclus.
Awaclus jumps on.
I don't want to lynch Space either and it's looking unlikely anything else is going to pick up steam so I jump on too.
Awaclus, why should I think that you are town?
I don’t really know what you mean, you may be viewing this game using masculine/feminine, but I am not. I am basing my reads on activity and content. Implying that I lack empathy/discernment helps nothing.I think ignoring whatever outside biases you may have makes you worse at this game. If you come up with a scum list and all of the people on it share a certain non game-related characteristic - and it does not matter whether this is gender, age, activity level, native language or something else - then you should absolutely critically evaluate whether there is a bias that makes you scumread this particular set of players. This has not so much to do with identity politics as it has with being a good player. I don't think Space ever meant to imply that you lack empathy and don't see where you got that impression.
We all have biases - funnily enough I think Space's read on MiX is heavily influenced by non-game related bias.
How is participating in getting the lynch through indication of townieness?Awaclus, why should I think that you are town?
Well, there are only weak reasons so far but I did some scumhunting yesterday and participated in getting the lynch through.
How is participating in getting the lynch through indication of townieness?Awaclus, why should I think that you are town?
Well, there are only weak reasons so far but I did some scumhunting yesterday and participated in getting the lynch through.
Which is just as true for scum in multiball.How is participating in getting the lynch through indication of townieness?Awaclus, why should I think that you are town?
Well, there are only weak reasons so far but I did some scumhunting yesterday and participated in getting the lynch through.
Because lynch is better than no lynch.
1000 boooosHow is participating in getting the lynch through indication of townieness?Awaclus, why should I think that you are town?
Well, there are only weak reasons so far but I did some scumhunting yesterday and participated in getting the lynch through.
Because lynch is better than no lynch.
Which is just as true for scum in multiball.How is participating in getting the lynch through indication of townieness?Awaclus, why should I think that you are town?
Well, there are only weak reasons so far but I did some scumhunting yesterday and participated in getting the lynch through.
Because lynch is better than no lynch.
And it is almost comical how raerae and shraeye are rehashing the exact same reads the had last game.Yeah, I'm dying laughing.
Also raerae was pushing for your lynch on D1, which mirrors what happened in the other game.And it is almost comical how raerae and shraeye are rehashing the exact same reads the had last game.Yeah, I'm dying laughing.
But seriously, this brushstroke is way too broad. It feels like a discredit to the MiX vote, for reasons that are much bigger than they really are.
*shraeye and raerae vote MiX in M121, shraeye and raerae vote Mix in RMM52*
Faust: funny how ALL of both of your reads are just exact copies of last game.
Also raerae was pushing for your lynch on D1, which mirrors what happened in the other game.And it is almost comical how raerae and shraeye are rehashing the exact same reads the had last game.Yeah, I'm dying laughing.
But seriously, this brushstroke is way too broad. It feels like a discredit to the MiX vote, for reasons that are much bigger than they really are.
*shraeye and raerae vote MiX in M121, shraeye and raerae vote Mix in RMM52*
Faust: funny how ALL of both of your reads are just exact copies of last game.
Also raerae was pushing for your lynch on D1, which mirrors what happened in the other game.And it is almost comical how raerae and shraeye are rehashing the exact same reads the had last game.Yeah, I'm dying laughing.
But seriously, this brushstroke is way too broad. It feels like a discredit to the MiX vote, for reasons that are much bigger than they really are.
*shraeye and raerae vote MiX in M121, shraeye and raerae vote Mix in RMM52*
Faust: funny how ALL of both of your reads are just exact copies of last game.
Also raerae was pushing for your lynch on D1, which mirrors what happened in the other game.And it is almost comical how raerae and shraeye are rehashing the exact same reads the had last game.Yeah, I'm dying laughing.
But seriously, this brushstroke is way too broad. It feels like a discredit to the MiX vote, for reasons that are much bigger than they really are.
*shraeye and raerae vote MiX in M121, shraeye and raerae vote Mix in RMM52*
Faust: funny how ALL of both of your reads are just exact copies of last game.
I feel like raerae was "pushing" shraeye's lynch, not actually pushing the lynch. Like, it was slapstick tunneling. That was scummy to me.
Hi friends-
I am completely sunk under with work stuff today. I'll be back tomorrow. xoxo
I think you and I have a different definition of "pushing."I guess my memory is not quite accurate. You voted shraeye early and then spent basically every other post questioning people who voiced an opinion on him. I guess you never explicitly expressed a scumread, but I am not surprised that I had that impression.
I think you and I have a different definition of "pushing."I guess my memory is not quite accurate. You voted shraeye early and then spent basically every other post questioning people who voiced an opinion on him. I guess you never explicitly expressed a scumread, but I am not surprised that I had that impression.
I also think that picking apart the minutiae of MiX's posts is an easy way for scum to create interactions without providing much content. UoS and raerae stand out as the main culprits.
I feel like NK analysis is more useful here than normally.
Well I am bound to not vote for you today, so no, I am not trying to build up suspicion. I want to lynch Awaclus. I admit that you have more of a reason to agrue with MiX since he scumread you. But I just skimmed those posts, they were kind of tedious to read through.I also think that picking apart the minutiae of MiX's posts is an easy way for scum to create interactions without providing much content. UoS and raerae stand out as the main culprits.
I don't understand how showing somebody is wrong is "picking apart the minutiae." MiX lied and misrepresented to make a case on me and I pointed that out. This makes two times you've tried to downplay my MiX vote. Are you protecting him or just trying to build up the suspicion on me?
I did do this. I just don't want to share.I feel like NK analysis is more useful here than normally.
You want to actually do this instead of just dropping a post saying it's a good idea?
Without anybody outing themselves, is it safe to assume jimmmmmmmmm shot mcmc and scum was blocked in someway? I don't recall jimmmmmm throwing shade on mcmc but could just be misremembering. Or do they both look like scum kills because N1 might not be the best time to use your one-shot? This is dangerously close to setup talk which I'm absolutely fabulous at so I look forward to giving some deep insights.I think it is relatively safe to assume that Jimmmmm did not use his shot N1. There are probably lots of "should vigs shoot N1" discussions out there and you could find Jimmmmm's stance on that, but anyway I imagine there is a relative consensus that 1-shot vigs should not shoot N1.
We have a Vig who as we know should not shoot until at least the mid-late game.
Ha. I have to admit I didn't look for whatever post you where refering to, I just found a good non-Robz that I remembered (because I wrote it). Well that's awkward.
I haven't even read the rest of this post,
Vote: MiX
blatantly lying to influence town is the literal definition of scum.
Your reason to vote ash was discredited by mcmc a few posts later
I don't see why you would have to be honest with your reason to vote for people if you're scum, thus I see no reason to believe if a vote was OMGUS or not based on what you say. Right? Am I being confusing here? Not that you gain anything by lying, but you're always lying when voting as scum anyway and this is no different.
As for Jimmmmmm, why did you sell your vote to faust? Why not e, me, shraeye, I don't know, anyone else? And did you simply sheep his case or did you see anything else that was scummy? That's the answer I wanted, "why did you vote for Jimmmmm" is a good catch-all question for that, I think.
Okay, actually read the whole thing, I'll address the three bolded points and then I'm all sorts of done with this. If anybody else wants to engage, I'd be happy to talk.
1) Discredited?? My OPINION on scummy behavior isn't any less valid than his. Facts can be discredited but opinions are just feelings with a different name and you don't get to tell somebody their feelings aren't valid. mcmc isn't right because he believes it isn't scummy and I'm not right because I do, we just feel differently about the subject. I still see ash's reasons for voting for me as scummy but mcmc and faust (two players I respect and who have significant game experience, and one who's conf!town) don't so I am willing to accept that it may not be as scummy as it looks to me. I'm willing to recognize that somebody else's feelings are valid.
2) My problem isn't with you disbelieving me when I say it wasn't OMGUS (this is Mafia, disbelief is to be expected, I get it), it's with you TELLING me that my stated reason for voting wasn't my stated reason for voting. It's you telling me you know more about what I was thinking and how I feel than I do. Because you don't. Flat out. You can say, "I don't believe you," but you never get to fucking tell me, "No, it was X because I say so."
3) Nobody else made an offer. I sold to literally the only person bidding.
So how does that makes me an informative lynch for town? You're proposing a lynch of somebody who's few interactions are with somebody you have a townread on. That seems exceedingly unhelpful to town.
Vote: ash
He didn’t say you were an informative lynch he said you are a good one. I agree your lynch isn’t super informative
I don't get it. The only good lynch is an informative lynch, otherwise you're just killing to kill, what's the point?
A scum lynch is the best lynch regardless of how informative it is.
Anyway, she spends D1 interacting with shraeye, me and a little bit of faust. Or at least most of what she said was to or about one of these 3 players...In M121 she also did that, but much, much less (she still interacted more with me and shraeye but more with other players, relatively). So...@raerae, was this intentional?
I also think that picking apart the minutiae of MiX's posts is an easy way for scum to create interactions without providing much content. UoS and raerae stand out as the main culprits.
EBWOP: So do Ashersky's commas.
What is wrong with me?
Much like my supposed use of two commas, this is a UoS scumtell.
Awaclus, why should I think that you are town?
I don’t really know what you mean, you may be viewing this game using masculine/feminine, but I am not. I am basing my reads on activity and content. Implying that I lack empathy/discernment helps nothing.I think ignoring whatever outside biases you may have makes you worse at this game. If you come up with a scum list and all of the people on it share a certain non game-related characteristic - and it does not matter whether this is gender, age, activity level, native language or something else - then you should absolutely critically evaluate whether there is a bias that makes you scumread this particular set of players. This has not so much to do with identity politics as it has with being a good player. I don't think Space ever meant to imply that you lack empathy and don't see where you got that impression.
We all have biases - funnily enough I think Space's read on MiX is heavily influenced by non-game related bias.
And if your response is “well how can you know?” I can’t, but there comes a time during critical self-evaluation that I have to decide that my opinions are genuine, otherwise I can’t believe anything. So that’s what I mean when I say I’m not looking at the game like that, I’m as sure as I am about anything else I believe.
And if your response is “well how can you know?” I can’t, but there comes a time during critical self-evaluation that I have to decide that my opinions are genuine, otherwise I can’t believe anything. So that’s what I mean when I say I’m not looking at the game like that, I’m as sure as I am about anything else I believe.
To be fair, you have lots of objectively wrong opinions.
(I don't actually think you're being biased here either, for what that's worth. I'm just obligated to say this.)
didn't read it all but I agree with didds being suspicious, her vote was reeeeally weird
Not weird, just not good. Pretty much all of my choices were related low inactivity, and were obvi wrong. Robz should have claimed, there was plenty of time for us to find a better lynch had he didn’t so. But I will fully admit that I was just trying to be helpful. I left LL when enough folks said it wasn’t fair to lynch him with no internet access, etc, so while I’m on Robz early it’s because he seemed viable based on the talk even if it wants yet about votes. And I wasn’t moving to Jimmm.
Ok, that actually clears things up better for me. Cancel my last point, carry on.
If my *unstellar* performance in M121 is any indication, stubbornness is not exclusively a scumtrait. I'm hardly sure it's a scum-trait at all.
Snow came in to argue a point with MiX then left. He didn’t try and add anything new, just walk someone through a point. That’s unlike him (not the skiing someone through a point, but the not adding anything new bit).
Vote: Robz
Baaaaaaaaa
Oh. @UoS, why did you vote Robz?
Did you find Robz scummy yesterday? Why did you announce intent to hammer?
If you read her explanation and immediately discard it because she's lying scum, then you're probably going to have to explain to the rest of the thread why you are so sure she's scum. And it's not because of an OMGUS vote, because you made that conclusion BASED on the fact that you know she's scum.
This reasoning is backward, and smells like a very fake read. "Make a decision first, find the evidence later"
Now something unrelated: @chicken, why, exactly, did you scumread Robz? Did you ever say that? I don't see it...I don't believe I ever posted my reasoning, but straight out the gate he with absolutely no supporting logic voted for me, which might have evoked a mild emotional reaction - I think I'd made 2 posts at that point and he hadn't made almost any either. At that point in time, we were two of the least active players in the game and it seemed that he was trying to draw attention away from himself just by pointing it at me.
But mostly what egged me to my final vote wasI love all the people dancing around with the idea of voting Robz but not doing it.
Same.
and Robz's ownSpace, move your vote to someone who is actually getting lynched maybe.
Perhaps I scumread the shoving a vote my way a bit too much but at the time it was
A: a bandwagon that actually had support
B: my first and initial scumtrigger
If you look at the Robz wagon, I think the point of no return was when Awaclus voted. This is exemplified here:Datswan votes for Robz because he doesn't want his vote to go to waste and he doesn't want to lynch Space.Glooble clearly felt that after Awaclus's vote, there was no way for an alternate wagon to succeed. DatSwan is up there too, epsecially because he made it clear that his vote was final, but I really think Awaclus drove this mislynch home. So, we should all be voting Awaclus.
Awaclus jumps on.
I don't want to lynch Space either and it's looking unlikely anything else is going to pick up steam so I jump on too.
Awaclus, why should I think that you are town?
Well, there are only weak reasons so far but I did some scumhunting yesterday and participated in getting the lynch through.
Vote: MiX
Also, were you going to do some NKA or just comment that it would be useful, because I'm kind of waiting to see what you have to say.Just comment.
Nothing.Awaclus, why should I think that you are town?
More importantly, what leads you to believe Awaclus was townreading Robz?
What scumhunting? You did nothing D1, you were away for half of it and the other half you said a NAI thing and voted Robz, thats it. How is that scumhunting?
Sounds like a good way to avoid getting lynched by going to the biggest wagon.
What scumhunting? You did nothing D1, you were away for half of it and the other half you said a NAI thing and voted Robz, thats it. How is that scumhunting?
I voted for e at a crucial moment which was likely to cause reactions from a lot of different people.
Sounds like a good way to avoid getting lynched by going to the biggest wagon.
It's also a good way to do a lot of other things. And no, that's not good enough.
Awaclus, why should I think that you are town?
More importantly, what leads you to believe Awaclus was townreading Robz?
Oh. @UoS, why did you vote Robz?
I thought my explanation was very eloquent.
Well did it cause reactions? Summarize your thoughts there? Do the, you know, actual legwork part of scumhunting?What scumhunting? You did nothing D1, you were away for half of it and the other half you said a NAI thing and voted Robz, thats it. How is that scumhunting?
I voted for e at a crucial moment which was likely to cause reactions from a lot of different people.
What scumhunting? You did nothing D1, you were away for half of it and the other half you said a NAI thing and voted Robz, thats it. How is that scumhunting?
I voted for e at a crucial moment which was likely to cause reactions from a lot of different people.
You're right. You turned it into a real wagon. Which means you're doing everything in your townmeta. Okay, I like this explanation.Sounds like a good way to avoid getting lynched by going to the biggest wagon.
It's also a good way to do a lot of other things. And no, that's not good enough.
Aaaaand there goes my other argument. So I think Awaclus' town(y) now...
What scumhunting? You did nothing D1, you were away for half of it and the other half you said a NAI thing and voted Robz, thats it. How is that scumhunting?
I voted for e at a crucial moment which was likely to cause reactions from a lot of different people.
You're right. You turned it into a real wagon. Which means you're doing everything in your townmeta. Okay, I like this explanation.Sounds like a good way to avoid getting lynched by going to the biggest wagon.
It's also a good way to do a lot of other things. And no, that's not good enough.
Aaaaand there goes my other argument. So I think Awaclus' town(y) now...
I'm really not sure how Awaclus' answers caused you to fold there. They were valid points, and his answers seemed like they brushed them aside instead of addressing them. Just "Weak suspicion" --> "weak answer" --> "oh, now my scumread is gone in fact you're towny".......
Because I have nothing better to do I checked whether Jimmmmm has gone on record on whether vigs should shoot N1. Here it is.We have a Vig who as we know should not shoot until at least the mid-late game.
So, it should definitely be safe to assume both kills were scum-induced.
Well did it cause reactions? Summarize your thoughts there? Do the, you know, actual legwork part of scumhunting?
Well did it cause reactions? Summarize your thoughts there? Do the, you know, actual legwork part of scumhunting?
Every townie can do that for themselves silently in their heads without posting about it and telling scum how to counterplay us.
Well did it cause reactions? Summarize your thoughts there? Do the, you know, actual legwork part of scumhunting?
Every townie can do that for themselves silently in their heads without posting about it and telling scum how to counterplay us.
Yeah, but if your argument is "I was towny because I scumhunted; you can tell because I'm saying that I made thoughts in my head".....that's really really crappy evidence of towniness.
I think MiX just demonstrated he doesn't need it either so why are we doing this?
Ruining said vote count by voting:Why the switch?
Vote: Snow
Ruining said vote count by voting:Why the switch?
Vote: Snow
BUt we had such a good thing going!Ruining said vote count by voting:Why the switch?
Vote: Snow
Why not? I haven’t suddenly townread the guy if that’s what you are asking, he is still a suspect. Just wanted to throw a vote at Snow. I think he is the player posting the most with the least to say.
BUt we had such a good thing going!Ruining said vote count by voting:Why the switch?
Vote: Snow
Why not? I haven’t suddenly townread the guy if that’s what you are asking, he is still a suspect. Just wanted to throw a vote at Snow. I think he is the player posting the most with the least to say.
Awaclus is Awaclus.BUt we had such a good thing going!Ruining said vote count by voting:Why the switch?
Vote: Snow
Why not? I haven’t suddenly townread the guy if that’s what you are asking, he is still a suspect. Just wanted to throw a vote at Snow. I think he is the player posting the most with the least to say.
What do you have to say about Awaclus that's scummy that doesn't apply to Swan?
What do you have to say about Awaclus that's scummy that doesn't apply to Swan?Awaclus is Awaclus.
EBWOP: So do Ashersky's commas.
What is wrong with me?
Much like my supposed use of two commas, this is a UoS scumtell.
Funny because the comma thing was deliberately BS. I think you're actually less likely than average to be scum.
Chickenwarlord, can you tell me what your top scumreads are right now?Chicken is fine as a nickname.
Also, what do you want to be your nickname? Chicken sounds a little... insulting maybe, is that fine for you? We could also do CWL I guess.
Given how poorly I read yesterday, I'm far from qualified to be making scumreads- but my suspicions have definitely shifted to Awaclus and possibly Space.
I also think that picking apart the minutiae of MiX's posts is an easy way for scum to create interactions without providing much content. UoS and raerae stand out as the main culprits.
I don't understand how showing somebody is wrong is "picking apart the minutiae." MiX lied and misrepresented to make a case on me and I pointed that out. This makes two times you've tried to downplay my MiX vote. Are you protecting him or just trying to build up the suspicion on me?
You even mention him, but I think you're not giving enough relevance to Swan. I believe him, along with chicken and Space, are the ones that secured the Robz lynch. Awaclus only appeared when it was inevitable, the anti-Robz folk were too dilluted in the LL/e/Space wagon (I'm at fault there too), in fact, it's a bit weird when you consider that faust started the Space wagon and immediatly afterwards Swan said he didn't want a Space lynch. Also don't like how Swan said a bunch of NAI things, stated "Glooble is town", voted Robz and dissapeared. Maybe they're just really busy...
Hmm, the timing on Swan's vote is much more suspicious than Space's timing + my (weak) case on them, so:
Vote: Swan
I'm really not sure how Awaclus' answers caused you to fold there. They were valid points, and his answers seemed like they brushed them aside instead of addressing them. Just "Weak suspicion" --> "weak answer" --> "oh, now my scumread is gone in fact you're towny".......
If we lynch him today, the Universal Backup will inherit the Hated Godfather. We do not want that.Right, no, I forgot we have to wait a day.
Hmm. Back to vote: e
PPE: Eddie = Uncleeurope.
See, I told you we should be voting faust
I disagree and will also vote: europe
The bigger issue is the playing off town's frustration at lynching one of the most valuable PRs (who did misplay), we should all be mad at the Robz lynch and look around to assign blame as a means of scumhunting seems to be the position faust is taking, and it's irrational and he knows it. It's manipulative.also, faust saying raerae's reads and my reads were just copies from last game seemed both disingenuous and a really ham-fisted way to cast doubt on our reads.
What Robz post were you replying to? I...didn't find it. In fact, it doesn't exist. I am as confused as you are...you're clearly replying to this:
Ha. I have to admit I didn't look for whatever post you where refering to, I just found a good non-Robz that I remembered (because I wrote it). Well that's awkward.
Ok, I'm here. Maybe people could put tl'drs at the end of long posts?
I only got one scumread out of that whole thing. Maybe things will be easier going forward.
WCD, I was cheering for you. It's fun having more women playing - for a long time after raerae left, it was just me. But it isn't actually all that different, and I object to genderizing playstyles or motivations.
Some players have done towny things. No players have set themselves apart as “good.”Yeah, I agree with this big big. I have a handful of scumreads, a double-handful of people I'm suspicious of. Another handful of people I'm null on, which makes me suspicious. My scale is severely tipped towards scum; glooble and Uncle are my two singular townreads. I've got DatSwan sorted into town category too, but that's mostly my gut-read from day1 carrying over.
So I’m struggling to separate the wheat.
The bigger issue is the playing off town's frustration at lynching one of the most valuable PRs (who did misplay), we should all be mad at the Robz lynch and look around to assign blame as a means of scumhunting seems to be the position faust is taking, and it's irrational and he knows it. It's manipulative.It's not irrational to try and analyze a mislynch wagon. I never said anything about we should all be mad. This is a misrepresentation.
Well, it was based on misremembering raerae's D1 reads. I do think you both have a bias against MiX that is not rooted in his alignment.The bigger issue is the playing off town's frustration at lynching one of the most valuable PRs (who did misplay), we should all be mad at the Robz lynch and look around to assign blame as a means of scumhunting seems to be the position faust is taking, and it's irrational and he knows it. It's manipulative.also, faust saying raerae's reads and my reads were just copies from last game seemed both disingenuous and a really ham-fisted way to cast doubt on our reads.
That's two counts of faust manipulating.
Faust is 2.7ing. As in, Faust today is mimicking 2.7 of Day 1, only with Awa instead of Robz. It’s so oddly jarring that it feels intentional.Why would I want to do that?
If you want something else, DatSwan voted for Robz at the last minute (because it was the last time he could post before deadline), so it kind of makes sense to switch to a big wagon if you are worried about not getting enough votes to lynch.What do you have to say about Awaclus that's scummy that doesn't apply to Swan?Awaclus is Awaclus.
Touché.
No, but seriously.
If you want something else, DatSwan voted for Robz at the last minute (because it was the last time he could post before deadline), so it kind of makes sense to switch to a big wagon if you are worried about not getting enough votes to lynch.What do you have to say about Awaclus that's scummy that doesn't apply to Swan?Awaclus is Awaclus.
Touché.
No, but seriously.
Awaclus could still have switched later, but decided to lock in the Robz wagon.
Follow up: My top pick based on D1 is Eddie.If you want something else, DatSwan voted for Robz at the last minute (because it was the last time he could post before deadline), so it kind of makes sense to switch to a big wagon if you are worried about not getting enough votes to lynch.What do you have to say about Awaclus that's scummy that doesn't apply to Swan?Awaclus is Awaclus.
Touché.
No, but seriously.
Awaclus could still have switched later, but decided to lock in the Robz wagon.
This all beyond nonsense for I assume both of you, but I at least know for faust... It is an 18 person game - SOMEONE was going to get lynched. Skum would hide off the wagon in my spot if anything. Not plant a vote and stay there. I agree with the Awaclus is Awaclus concept at this point, but the fact that you try to drag me into it is lame.
My big problem with the game so far is no one is particularly towny in the way I feel comfortable completely taking them off the table.
Some players have done towny things. No players have set themselves apart as “good.”
So I’m struggling to separate the wheat.
On Robz, yeah he def misplayed. His last post came at a time when he should have realized the risk of being lynch outweighed any benefit he thought he’d get from waiting to activate his IC.
Because of that, I can’t give the Robz mislynch any more weight than a normal mislynch.
My big problem with the game so far is no one is particularly towny in the way I feel comfortable completely taking them off the table.
Some players have done towny things. No players have set themselves apart as “good.”
So I’m struggling to separate the wheat.
On Robz, yeah he def misplayed. His last post came at a time when he should have realized the risk of being lynch outweighed any benefit he thought he’d get from waiting to activate his IC.
Because of that, I can’t give the Robz mislynch any more weight than a normal mislynch.
The bigger issue is the playing off town's frustration at lynching one of the most valuable PRs (who did misplay), we should all be mad at the Robz lynch and look around to assign blame as a means of scumhunting seems to be the position faust is taking, and it's irrational and he knows it. It's manipulative.also, faust saying raerae's reads and my reads were just copies from last game seemed both disingenuous and a really ham-fisted way to cast doubt on our reads.
That's two counts of faust manipulating.
Regardless, as you saw to the reaction to my claim it didn’t dismantle suspicion from me, it added to it.
I strongly agree with shraeye here. That whole interaction between Awaclus and MiX honestly felt staged. Like I don't see the logic in Awaclus's answers and I have a really hard time seeing where MiX finds them convincing.
Okay, this is kind of stream-of-consciousness, but reading MiX's day 2 play there is a lot of pushing something and immediately backing off when any pressure is put on that assertion. It happens with raerae, and then it happens with Awaclus even faster. My gut reaction is that that's scummy.
then he just totally missed why I voted for jimmmmm even though he apparently reread the day and explained it (incorrectly) right before asking me why I voted for jimmmm.
If you want something else, DatSwan voted for Robz at the last minute (because it was the last time he could post before deadline), so it kind of makes sense to switch to a big wagon if you are worried about not getting enough votes to lynch.What do you have to say about Awaclus that's scummy that doesn't apply to Swan?Awaclus is Awaclus.
Touché.
No, but seriously.
Awaclus could still have switched later, but decided to lock in the Robz wagon.
I am almost certain at this point that either Faust or Awaclus are scum, and we won't know which one is which the bodies hit the floor.
Someone knew that Roby wasn't on their team.The bigger issue is the playing off town's frustration at lynching one of the most valuable PRs (who did misplay), we should all be mad at the Robz lynch and look around to assign blame as a means of scumhunting seems to be the position faust is taking, and it's irrational and he knows it. It's manipulative.also, faust saying raerae's reads and my reads were just copies from last game seemed both disingenuous and a really ham-fisted way to cast doubt on our reads.
That's two counts of faust manipulating.
I actually agree with this. This seems like Faust is attempting to promote people to fixate on something they could not have had knowledge of. Obv Robz effed up... but no one knew that until it happened.
LL's wagon was at 4 votes, Robz' was at 5, he could easily vote LL...actually, @Swan, why didn't you vote LL?Yes but that is only scummy if you thinkk LaLight was scum. In which case you should vote for EFHW, not DatSwan.
LL's wagon was at 4 votes, Robz' was at 5, he could easily vote LL...actually, @Swan, why didn't you vote LL?Yes but that is only scummy if you thinkk LaLight was scum. In which case you should vote for EFHW, not DatSwan.
TLDR (as requested) - I cannot find a reason to claim GF in this set up on Day 1 as Town.
No, I just think that from a meta perspective Awaclus is way more likely to make that move as scum.LL's wagon was at 4 votes, Robz' was at 5, he could easily vote LL...actually, @Swan, why didn't you vote LL?Yes but that is only scummy if you thinkk LaLight was scum. In which case you should vote for EFHW, not DatSwan.
Voting LL wouldn't lock in any lynch. Now you'll say that only matters if LL is scum, to which I reply, same thing for Awaclus' vote, except here it's only if LL/Space is scum. Am I right?
TLDR (as requested) - I cannot find a reason to claim GF in this set up on Day 1 as Town.Come now, I'm sure you can do better than vote for someone on a theory disagreement.
No, I just think that from a meta perspective Awaclus is way more likely to make that move as scum.
Glooble - What are your thoughts on Awaclus/Faust. Not in the context it has being talked about, that is a happenstance, I just want to know what you think.
Regardless, as you saw to the reaction to my claim it didn’t dismantle suspicion from me, it added to it.
I have to stop you right here, claiming made you completely unlynchable D1 and you know that. I don't believe you didn't know this. It was also the first thing you said, there was nothing to "add".
FoS: Uncle, for that lie. Won't vote because he's Hated and I have to reread his D1, I mostly ignored him...
Regardless, as you saw to the reaction to my claim it didn’t dismantle suspicion from me, it added to it.
I have to stop you right here, claiming made you completely unlynchable D1 and you know that. I don't believe you didn't know this. It was also the first thing you said, there was nothing to "add".
FoS: Uncle, for that lie. Won't vote because he's Hated and I have to reread his D1, I mostly ignored him...
It made me unlynchable, sure, but it also increased people’s awareness of my presence, which seems like a bad trade off for a Day1 pass.
It wasn’t a lie by any stretch.
I also dislike this FoS format, it confuses me.
And if I was scum I wouldn’t have claimed it, I would have gotten a partner to claim it.
I meant to do that as a reply. Oops.
I didn’t make the connection that killing me day1 was bad when I claimed.
And if I know I am getting policy lynched eventually, the easiest thing I can do is NEVER claim it because then it might prolong it more than a day. So I don’t get your point there.
Are you saying that you think you would claim as scum or town more? Do you think I would claim more as scum or town?
And honestly, you have a direct comparison to my scum play, and it ain’t this.
And yes, I would prefer you vote me.
So what about those 2 quotes made you feel Robz was scummy?
Also, Jimmmmmm, LL and Space had support too, why didn't you go there? (in D1)
what were your scumreads when you voted Robz? Surely it wasn't just him, right?
I didn’t think about the UB on N0
I was busy with the other game.
Darn everything, I was planning on just coming out of the gate claiming Gul, but now because you people talked about it so much, it is much less exciting.
I claim Gul.
I am pretty sure it is the correct play as well.
So what about those 2 quotes made you feel Robz was scummy?At the time I might have voted for Jimmmmm. I did not feel that LL was scum at all. Was feeling pretty null on Space at the time who had at least been siding with WCD (who I still think has been playing pretty Station-alligned)
Also, Jimmmmmm, LL and Space had support too, why didn't you go there? (in D1)
what were your scumreads when you voted Robz? Surely it wasn't just him, right?
At the time I might have voted for Jimmmmm. I did not feel that LL was scum at all. Was feeling pretty null on Space at the time who had at least been siding with WCD (who I still think has been playing pretty Station-alligned)...
I believe the only other realistic wagon was Space, who I was definitely not down to lynch at that point.
Robz should have claimed, not going to apologize for anything about the wagon yesterday, time to find scum todayIt's true that Robz misplayed, but that doesn't absolve you from the responsibility of having misread him.
If you look at the Robz wagon, I think the point of no return was when Awaclus voted.
...
Glooble clearly felt that after Awaclus's vote, there was no way for an alternate wagon to succeed. DatSwan is up there too, epsecially because he made it clear that his vote was final, but I really think Awaclus drove this mislynch home. So, we should all be voting Awaclus.
DatSwan voted for Robz at the last minute (because it was the last time he could post before deadline), so it kind of makes sense to switch to a big wagon if you are worried about not getting enough votes to lynch.
Awaclus could still have switched later, but decided to lock in the Robz wagon.
I feel like NK analysis is more useful here than normally.
So if you were null on Space, why didn't you want to lynch them?Is null not the term used to describe no strong read one way or another? I don't think it is all that surprising that I'd vote for somebody I strongly suspected of being scum over a new last minute bandwagon for somebody I had no feelings one way or another for.
TLDR (as requested) - I cannot find a reason to claim GF in this set up on Day 1 as Town.
Your argument above the "tl;dr" part is based a lot around counter-claiming (I assume that's what you're using "CC" for in this context) and ignoring the "hated" aspect. Moreover, you're ignoring the fact that by the time Eddie came into the thread and claimed, there had already been a discussion about whether Glu Dukat should claim. Do you think that pro-Dukat-claim people earlier in the thread deserve some portion of the scumpoints you're allocating to Eddie here?
Additionally, are you really expecting scum to want to counterclaim a role here, when roles are assigned independent of alignments? My gut says that would be a pretty weird move when any scum must have a guaranteed safe fakeclaim by just claiming their own role, so the fact that your suspicion on Eddie seems to be based on counterclaims seems odd. If anyone has been copped, it's a one-v-one situation in terms of who we believe (cop with guilty result or person the result is on) whether or not there are additional role-claim-stealing issues on top of it, so why would scum make things even more complicated and incriminating for themselves?
Regardless, as you saw to the reaction to my claim it didn’t dismantle suspicion from me, it added to it.
I have to stop you right here, claiming made you completely unlynchable D1 and you know that. I don't believe you didn't know this. It was also the first thing you said, there was nothing to "add".
FoS: Uncle, for that lie. Won't vote because he's Hated and I have to reread his D1, I mostly ignored him...
Why were you townreading LL?
Does EFHW's entrance to the game change anything for you on that slot?
LL's wagon was at 4 votes, Robz' was at 5, he could easily vote LL...actually, @Swan, why didn't you vote LL?
Also, WCD, could you explain exactly why I am on your radar? Is it just the claim? Is my behavior a factor? Is it my voting?
1) I do not think anyone discussing anything set up related deserve any skum points awarded. That is not specific to this game, but to most games in general. My line is pretty clearly drawn between "talking about potentially claiming" vs "the person of that role actually claiming".
2) Example on why I think the hated part would work in favor of a skum claim:Regardless, as you saw to the reaction to my claim it didn’t dismantle suspicion from me, it added to it.
I have to stop you right here, claiming made you completely unlynchable D1 and you know that. I don't believe you didn't know this. It was also the first thing you said, there was nothing to "add".
3) In regards to all the counter claiming (yes that is my CC acronym) - you say "why would skum make it more complicated and incriminating?". Not to like answer a question with a question - but why would town make it more complicated and incriminating? I am not saying that I find a particularly high volume of good reasons why skum would act this way.... but I do not see reason for town to do so.
That's all I've got time for tonight I'm afraid.. my band just had an album launch gig for our new CD and I'm absolutely wiped out.
BUt we had such a good thing going!Ruining said vote count by voting:Why the switch?
Vote: Snow
Why not? I haven’t suddenly townread the guy if that’s what you are asking, he is still a suspect. Just wanted to throw a vote at Snow. I think he is the player posting the most with the least to say.
What do you have to say about Awaclus that's scummy that doesn't apply to Swan?
I think Swan's timing was much scummier, especially because he left, Awaclus was at deadline so his vote wasn't final.
That's all I've got time for tonight I'm afraid.. my band just had an album launch gig for our new CD and I'm absolutely wiped out.
I think town!Eddie had enough reasons to claim that his having done so doesn't make him scummy.Don't discount the "it makes the game more interesting" factor, which Eddie also mentioned.
I think town!Eddie had enough reasons to claim that his having done so doesn't make him scummy.Don't discount the "it makes the game more interesting" factor, which Eddie also mentioned.
I may have a perplexing tendency to trust Eddie. It definitely didn't work out last time.
It's also important not to assume best play, especially with a relatively new player. Datswan's theory seems to assume best play.
Yeah, I see many posts saying this in more confusing ways. Your overall points confuse me, but it looks like basic theory disagreement. Swan, I'm not buying that it was a scum-move for Uncle to claim. You should stop selling that if you want to turn a profit.TLDR (as requested) - I cannot find a reason to claim GF in this set up on Day 1 as Town.Come now, I'm sure you can do better than vote for someone on a theory disagreement.
Robz should have claimed, not going to apologize for anything about the wagon yesterday, time to find scum todayIt's true that Robz misplayed, but that doesn't absolve you from the responsibility of having misread him.If you look at the Robz wagon, I think the point of no return was when Awaclus voted.
...
Glooble clearly felt that after Awaclus's vote, there was no way for an alternate wagon to succeed. DatSwan is up there too, epsecially because he made it clear that his vote was final, but I really think Awaclus drove this mislynch home. So, we should all be voting Awaclus.DatSwan voted for Robz at the last minute (because it was the last time he could post before deadline), so it kind of makes sense to switch to a big wagon if you are worried about not getting enough votes to lynch.
Awaclus could still have switched later, but decided to lock in the Robz wagon.
As for the three mini-wagons (wagonettes?) I sympathize with all of the MiX votes and it wouldn't take much to move there, but I don't really find him scummy as much as over-confident. I find Awaclus scummy enough to vote (which I did) because he is doing about as much to scumhunt as he did in the last game when he was scum. The Eddie votes are okay by me, too. He is coming into his own as a player and he is projecting more confidence now than when I last played with him. Could be his scum-chops have gotten better honed.
I am suspicious Space's defense of MiX but I can't exactly put my finger on why right at this second (phones are great and terrible all at the same time).Did you mean Space? Did I miss this post?
I am suspicious Space's defense of MiX but I can't exactly put my finger on why right at this second (phones are great and terrible all at the same time).Did you mean Space? Did I miss this post?
As for the three mini-wagons (wagonettes?) I sympathize with all of the MiX votes and it wouldn't take much to move there, but I don't really find him scummy as much as over-confident. I find Awaclus scummy enough to vote (which I did) because he is doing about as much to scumhunt as he did in the last game when he was scum. The Eddie votes are okay by me, too. He is coming into his own as a player and he is projecting more confidence now than when I last played with him. Could be his scum-chops have gotten better honed.
I'm in on Awaclus, sure. But I'll jump back to MiX lickity split as well.
vote: Awaclus
I think town!Eddie had enough reasons to claim that his having done so doesn't make him scummy.Don't discount the "it makes the game more interesting" factor, which Eddie also mentioned.
I may have a perplexing tendency to trust Eddie. It definitely didn't work out last time.
It's also important not to assume best play, especially with a relatively new player. Datswan's theory seems to assume best play.
Yes i assume town would factor in best play.
More importantly - i am an idiot. I have been reading godfather thinking Miller this entire time.
Unvote: Eddie
All of my points make zero sense. How did no one call me on that?
Is there some sort of point you wanted to make with this or do you just find me very quotable?Robz should have claimed, not going to apologize for anything about the wagon yesterday, time to find scum todayIt's true that Robz misplayed, but that doesn't absolve you from the responsibility of having misread him.If you look at the Robz wagon, I think the point of no return was when Awaclus voted.
...
Glooble clearly felt that after Awaclus's vote, there was no way for an alternate wagon to succeed. DatSwan is up there too, epsecially because he made it clear that his vote was final, but I really think Awaclus drove this mislynch home. So, we should all be voting Awaclus.DatSwan voted for Robz at the last minute (because it was the last time he could post before deadline), so it kind of makes sense to switch to a big wagon if you are worried about not getting enough votes to lynch.
Awaclus could still have switched later, but decided to lock in the Robz wagon.
I think I already talked D1 about how I don't think scum wants to kill off lynchable players. I mean I guess I could have lied about this as scum, but what's the point? Scum doesn't want to lie more than necessary.I feel like NK analysis is more useful here than normally.
Another thing: faust was scumreading Jimmmmmm, people looking at NKs and looking for possible scumhunting scum might notice this. By pointing it out, faust sort of hangs a lantern on it and takes potential pressure off.
I think I already talked D1 about how I don't think scum wants to kill off lynchable players. I mean I guess I could have lied about this as scum, but what's the point? Scum doesn't want to lie more than necessary.I feel like NK analysis is more useful here than normally.
Another thing: faust was scumreading Jimmmmmm, people looking at NKs and looking for possible scumhunting scum might notice this. By pointing it out, faust sort of hangs a lantern on it and takes potential pressure off.
Of course I have written this to show that the scum!me perspective does not make sense. UoS was implying that I might be scum who NKed Jimmmmm. I am pointing out that scum!me would not have killed Jimmmmm. I don't understand why you think that makes me scum.I think I already talked D1 about how I don't think scum wants to kill off lynchable players. I mean I guess I could have lied about this as scum, but what's the point? Scum doesn't want to lie more than necessary.I feel like NK analysis is more useful here than normally.
Another thing: faust was scumreading Jimmmmmm, people looking at NKs and looking for possible scumhunting scum might notice this. By pointing it out, faust sort of hangs a lantern on it and takes potential pressure off.
You scumreading Jimmmm and hypothetical scum not wanting to NK him because he is “lynchable” are not the same thing.
Unless you are saying that as scum. Then it is the same thing. I think this is one of those scumthoughts being spoken as a normal thing accidentally.
Good enough for a vote: faust at this point.
I am suspicious Space's defense of MiX but I can't exactly put my finger on why right at this second (phones are great and terrible all at the same time).Did you mean Space? Did I miss this post?
Robz should have claimed, not going to apologize for anything about the wagon yesterday, time to find scum todayIt's true that Robz misplayed, but that doesn't absolve you from the responsibility of having misread him.
If you look at the Robz wagon, I think the point of no return was when Awaclus voted.
...
Glooble clearly felt that after Awaclus's vote, there was no way for an alternate wagon to succeed. DatSwan is up there too, epsecially because he made it clear that his vote was final, but I really think Awaclus drove this mislynch home. So, we should all be voting Awaclus.
DatSwan voted for Robz at the last minute (because it was the last time he could post before deadline), so it kind of makes sense to switch to a big wagon if you are worried about not getting enough votes to lynch.
Awaclus could still have switched later, but decided to lock in the Robz wagon.
It's past my bedtime; what do you mean with all this?
Eddie's claim makes sense to me and it's weird that we're still talking about it
*keeps talking about it*
Eddie's claim makes sense to me and it's weird that we're still talking about it
*keeps talking about it*
And by the way, it doesn't matter whether a wagon is on town or scum, it matters if the wagon was towny and righteous or scummy and gross. Lynching Robz the Innocent Child was towny and righteous and I'd do it again. My instinct coming into this day was to hunt off wagon.
Hammering was towny.Why? Do you know ashersky's meta?
Hammering was towny.Why? Do you know ashersky's meta?
Okay then, why is getting a lynch done towny?Hammering was towny.Why? Do you know ashersky's meta?
What? I meant getting a lynch done...and no, I guess not, I haven't read ash games other than RMM51, or at least I haven't reread any...
Okay then, why is getting a lynch done towny?Hammering was towny.Why? Do you know ashersky's meta?
What? I meant getting a lynch done...and no, I guess not, I haven't read ash games other than RMM51, or at least I haven't reread any...
Would you say that it would be better for scum if Robz hadn't been lynched?Okay then, why is getting a lynch done towny?Hammering was towny.Why? Do you know ashersky's meta?
What? I meant getting a lynch done...and no, I guess not, I haven't read ash games other than RMM51, or at least I haven't reread any...
Because we get information? If we had all that D1 just for no lynch we wouldn't have the information that Robz was town, so there wasn't much to analyze about the wagon.
Interesting. So why was it scummy to vote Robz before the hammer?
Would you say that it would be better for scum if Robz hadn't been lynched?Okay then, why is getting a lynch done towny?Hammering was towny.Why? Do you know ashersky's meta?
What? I meant getting a lynch done...and no, I guess not, I haven't read ash games other than RMM51, or at least I haven't reread any...
Because we get information? If we had all that D1 just for no lynch we wouldn't have the information that Robz was town, so there wasn't much to analyze about the wagon.
Siggghhh; I disagree with this in general. And in this particular case, it's not even true that we would be info-less on Robz.Okay then, why is getting a lynch done towny?
Because we get information? If we had all that D1 just for no lynch we wouldn't have the information that Robz was town, so there wasn't much to analyze about the wagon.
Are you kidding me right now?
So, hmm...here's an interesting fact...did anyone mention shraeye's end of D1 behaviour? Mostly him moving from ash to LL and then dissapearing...that was weird.
@shraeye, what happened around deadline? Why did you dissapear?
Interesting that MiX backed off twice (IIRC) from people but is holding a vote on DatSwowl despite recent occurrences.I think it's because he got called out for backing off of people, and is now hyper-conscious of it
Don’t know what to make of that.
As for the three mini-wagons (wagonettes?) I sympathize with all of the MiX votes and it wouldn't take much to move there, but I don't really find him scummy as much as over-confident. I find Awaclus scummy enough to vote (which I did) because he is doing about as much to scumhunt as he did in the last game when he was scum. The Eddie votes are okay by me, too. He is coming into his own as a player and he is projecting more confidence now than when I last played with him. Could be his scum-chops have gotten better honed.
I'm in on Awaclus, sure. But I'll jump back to MiX lickity split as well.
vote: Awaclus
I have to say, this vote threw me, wasn’t expecting you to throw your vote there. Would you mind explaining why you suspect Awaclus?
Where has Glooble gotten to?
Are you kidding me right now?
So, hmm...here's an interesting fact...did anyone mention shraeye's end of D1 behaviour? Mostly him moving from ash to LL and then dissapearing...that was weird.
@shraeye, what happened around deadline? Why did you dissapear?
In RMM51, it definitely helped scum a ton that a lot of information was available and that a lot of it was true. We were a lot e to make very informed decisions most nights.
We have just over 24 hours. Five people still aren’t voting at all.
vote: Awaclus
- Good point: Awaclus, if you had to take something out of your vote on e, what would it be? If nothing then your move was pointless.
We have just over 24 hours. Five people still aren’t voting at all.
Huh? The most recent vote count said that the deadline is 8am forum time on Monday. It's currently just after 5am forum time on Friday. That's more than 24 hours even if you use funny maths for weekends.
Hey Space, how about you vote for someone? Or at least share some thoughts beyond deadline times.We have just over 24 hours. Five people still aren’t voting at all.
Huh? The most recent vote count said that the deadline is 8am forum time on Monday. It's currently just after 5am forum time on Friday. That's more than 24 hours even if you use funny maths for weekends.
- Good point: Awaclus, if you had to take something out of your vote on e, what would it be? If nothing then your move was pointless.
It was something. I'm not going to tell you though because you're scum.
You're not in your scum QT, everyone will see what you say, not just me. Also, that's such an easy way to weasel out of answering that it looks scummy. But is it? Why is your meta a mess?
You're not in your scum QT, everyone will see what you say, not just me. Also, that's such an easy way to weasel out of answering that it looks scummy. But is it? Why is your meta a mess?
Yeah, the other scum will see it too. I'm not weaseling out of answering anything, I'd legit rather self-hammer than let scum know my thought process behind voting for e.
So, make a compelling case on your top scumread (me?) or you're probably getting lynched anyway, so you can say your thought process.
FoS: Awaclus, I give up, someone else make sense of this. I'm assuming he's always playing a gambit? And it's the same one everytime? But I don't see why anyone would do this.
FoS: Awaclus, I give up, someone else make sense of this. I'm assuming he's always playing a gambit? And it's the same one everytime? But I don't see why anyone would do this.
Because it's extremely important for scum to have as little information as possible.
So if you had your way everyone would just vote and no one would ever explain their votes? How would we ever form reads?
So if you had your way everyone would just vote and no one would ever explain their votes? How would we ever form reads?
1) Yes
2) By scumhunting.
Because it's extremely important for scum to have as little information as possible.
Hey Space, how about you vote for someone? Or at least share some thoughts beyond deadline times.We have just over 24 hours. Five people still aren’t voting at all.
Huh? The most recent vote count said that the deadline is 8am forum time on Monday. It's currently just after 5am forum time on Friday. That's more than 24 hours even if you use funny maths for weekends.
Do you scumhunt...by voting? And that's helpful because...? With no opinions, votes are shallow, meaningless, random. Your strategy works because others talk about things and react to votes with words. If everyone only voted town would never win, the odds are stacked against us, we need to overcome those with reads, which always come from talking, from sharing information, thought processes, reasons to vote.
Town also needs information. Okay I'll stop now.
Why did you answer me?
Why did you answer me?
If you don't like it, don't read it.
Question for you, faust: What did you think of my comment that it would be useful to have baseline numbers for the likelihood of at least one scum in a set of n players? Do you agree that it would be town-useful info to have? If so, have you not followed up on it because you too are sorely strapped for time? Or do you think it's more useful to scum than town, but for some reason have decided not to scumread me for suggesting that it would be useful?I don't think it is particularly useful for anyone. It doesn't hurt, but man there are better things you could do with your time. Calculating the expected number of scum in the setup is already nontrivial because you have to factor in that we had 2 town kills, which makes SK more likely.
Yeah, the other scum will see it too. I'm not weaseling out of answering anything, I'd legit rather self-hammer than let scum know my thought process behind voting for e.Now let us all ponder over what was meant by this. What possible information (besides your role) on night 0 could you have had to share that would have given scum an advantage? I feel like I'm missing one or two steps in this logic train.
Of course I have written this to show that the scum!me perspective does not make sense. UoS was implying that I might be scum who NKed Jimmmmm. I am pointing out that scum!me would not have killed Jimmmmm. I don't understand why you think that makes me scum.Faust raises an interesting point here to keep in mind for future NKs. With two scumteams- it becomes easier for them to frame specific people from outside of whatever scumteam is making their group decision. I definitelywanted to have that angle messing up my head. Thanks Faust, I hate it.
I was in fact decently against a lynch until Robz posted those two quotes. The first being a 'no matter how much people are discussing me, no one wants to actually throw the votes my way' and the second being a 'you shouldn't throw your vote at things that aren't going to happen' - which in this case was poetic injustice. The combination of two read as a bit of a challenge.
Why did you answer me?
If you don't like it, don't read it.
That didn't answer my question.
Now let us all ponder over what was meant by this. What possible information (besides your role) on night 0 could you have had to share that would have given scum an advantage? I feel like I'm missing one or two steps in this logic train.
Why did you answer me?
This is Day 2, not Night 0. Specifically the information that I have that would give scum an advantage is "what I personally think about the e wagon".
I'd legit rather self-hammer than let scum know my thought process behind voting for e.
And why was this scummy? Sorry for not asking earlier, had other priorities and forgot.It wasn't scummy in and of itself - but the first was a rather a poor choice of words to throw out when the populace at large already had moderate suspicion on him. The second - the call to action- just made me consider that if I was going to vote I should do it for something that was logically going to be chosen. Literally no one else had jumped on my no lynch wagon, even other people in the thread that had made arguments for no lynch weren't putting their money where their discourse was.
But, here's the thing: aside from hidden information - our roles, any investigate results we might have gotten, etc. - what exactly is there that we don't want scum to know? Like, how does it help scum to know what townies think about you and e? I'm really, really not seeing it.
This is Day 2, not Night 0. Specifically the information that I have that would give scum an advantage is "what I personally think about the e wagon".
But before you said:I'd legit rather self-hammer than let scum know my thought process behind voting for e.
Related?
PPE 4
They have to justify their votes, and if their real reason for voting is help their own wincon, they have to come up with a lie. The more we force scum to lie, the more likely we are to catch them in a lie.
So letting each town player draw they're own conclusions and encouraging votes with no explanation attached just lets scum hide. I know Awaclus knows this, so it feels to me like Awaclus is just trying to justify his own scummy behavior and enable scummy behavior from others.
I misspoke.With this, your logic makes more sense certainly, but not enough to throw off suspicion.
Is that a good deal? Is this how people handle Awaclus? He's weird.This is how Awaclus responds to questions. Not really alignment indicative, unfortunately.
Okay Faust, thoughts on Awaclus now?
MiX, is that really your best scumread? DatSwowl’s timing regarding the end of the day? That seems unlike you.
Vote: MiX
I think it is super weird that Lalight was contributing more than EFHW has.
I am contributing, where I have things to say. I am just very succinct! I gave up on rereading the thread, though. It was too much of a slog. So I don't have many things to say about the past. I am planning to do targeted rereads of you and e.
What do you think of MiX choosing to not say something for once when I brought up the Jimmmmmmmmm and mcmc votes vs Robz votes question?
Explain how it increases wifom?
I meant that they are wagons on people who have flipped town.
I can't possibly reread you. That's why I had to stop. My tl;dr comment was mostly meant for you. You have an entertaining, lively way of writing, but it's really hard to get through a lot at once.I am contributing, where I have things to say. I am just very succinct! I gave up on rereading the thread, though. It was too much of a slog. So I don't have many things to say about the past. I am planning to do targeted rereads of you and e.
You should absolutely reread me faust and Awaclus too, otherwise you'll be useless today.
You also haven't said much about the present, EFHW. Do you think I'm nuts about Faust or onto something? What do you think of MiX choosing to not say something for once when I brought up the Jimmmmmmmmm and mcmc votes vs Robz votes question?I did consider the faust question and decided I disagreed. Mix seems to have backed off posting in general and the question doesn't seem very meaningful to me. Maybe you can explain what you trying to get at?
I've already not been useless today.I am contributing, where I have things to say. I am just very succinct! I gave up on rereading the thread, though. It was too much of a slog. So I don't have many things to say about the past. I am planning to do targeted rereads of you and e.
You should absolutely reread me faust and Awaclus too, otherwise you'll be useless today.
...
This is kind of my point. And yet it still feels like you're missing my point.
I can't possibly reread you. That's why I had to stop. My tl;dr comment was mostly meant for you. You have an entertaining, lively way of writing, but it's really hard to get through a lot at once.I am contributing, where I have things to say. I am just very succinct! I gave up on rereading the thread, though. It was too much of a slog. So I don't have many things to say about the past. I am planning to do targeted rereads of you and e.
You should absolutely reread me faust and Awaclus too, otherwise you'll be useless today.
vote: Robz
I am committeed to a lynch. I am willing to vote for LL, Robz, or Asher. I won't vote for Jimmmm today.
I left LL when enough folks said it wasn’t fair to lynch him with no internet access, etc, so while I’m on Robz early it’s because he seemed viable based on the talk even if it wants yet about votes. And I wasn’t moving to Jimmm.
Vote: Robz
Baaaaaaaaa
Vote: Robz
I dunno, people. My vote is still fluid, just trying some stuff out.
Robz888 -- Actually, his inactivity here doesn't feel totally like it did in RMM51. Here he seems to be reading and sheeping, rather than too busy to be present. I certainly have sympathy for people who find interacting with a big group on D1 tough, but that's not really the vibe I get from him either. Of the major wagons that I haven't ruled out, he's looking the most votable.
Vote: Robz
Vote Robbz
I guess it makes sense to throw my vote into the ring at this juncture. Robbz was my strongest scumread, and now that it is looking like we are converging for an actual lynch seems to have the most traction. If there is a big shift to Lalight I guess I could be persuaded, but I would much rather stick on this line.
I was wrong. I will not be here. I do not think Robz is particularly skummy but I do not want my vote to go to waste and I do not want to vote for Space.
Vote: Robz
LL's wagon was at 4 votes, Robz' was at 5, he could easily vote LL...actually, @Swan, why didn't you vote LL?
I posted this in my VCA - but because I had to choose between the two and I liked Robz more than LL.
I don’t remember exactly why, I think it was a mix of e’s posts getting to me and Robz poss feeling slightly apathetic. As well as, and this is the big one, wanting to see more clearly who was okay with Robz dying more clearly.
That being said, I caved once so many people jumped, and became much more interested in not pushing the narrative that this was inevitable just to see how many people would agree or disagree.
Why no mention of Awaclus in your list there, I must have missed the bit where you discounted him.
Vote: Faust
Errr...
Vote: Chicken
Okay Faust, thoughts on Awaclus now?I think he is scum.
Okay Faust, thoughts on Awaclus now?I think he is scum.
Okay Faust, thoughts on Awaclus now?I think he is scum.
You're mistaken.
Okay Faust, thoughts on Awaclus now?I think he is scum.
You're mistaken.
What did this post accomplish? All it does is say "My name is Awaclus and here is my meta" which is useless.
Okay Faust, thoughts on Awaclus now?I think he is scum.
You're mistaken.
What did this post accomplish? All it does is say "My name is Awaclus and here is my meta" which is useless.
What did this post accomplish? All it does is say "My name is MiX and here is my meta" which is useless.
Okay Faust, thoughts on Awaclus now?I think he is scum.
You're mistaken.
What did this post accomplish? All it does is say "My name is Awaclus and here is my meta" which is useless.
What did this post accomplish? All it does is say "My name is MiX and here is my meta" which is useless.
I wanted to know what you thought was good content or not, clearly you like to reduce scum's information, how do you feel about saying nothing in a post?
Questions from previous post:
@UoS, do you like sheeping? If so, do you prefer to do it early or later in the game?
@Uncle, why, exactly, did you vote for Robz?
@chicken, you said "It wasn't scummy in and of itself - but the first was a rather a poor choice of words to throw out when the populace at large already had moderate suspicion on him": how is this scummy? How is a poor choice of words scummy? This explanation is essencial for us to understand you.
@Swan, what, how do you explain never mentioning LL D1? This question makes more sense in the context of the previous post.
@UoS, do you like sheeping? If so, do you prefer to do it early or later in the game?
More right than it was before...
Vote count 1.2 Didds
LaLight (5): MiX, UmbrageofSnow, Shraeye, Glooble, Robz888
Jimmmmm (3): faust, Uncleeurope, raerae
raerae (2): ashersky, mcmcsalot
2.71828..... (2): LaLight, , Awaclus
Robz888 (2): 2.71828....., WestCoastDidds,
shraeye (1): Jimmmmm
MiX (1): SpaceAnemone
chickenwarlord (1): DatSwan
No Lynch (1): chickenwarlord
We can further seperate this if we look at the vote count when Robz was the only one getting lynched, that is, after Swan's vote:
LaLight (4): MiX, Shraeye, Glooble, Robz888
Robz888 (6): 2.71828....., WestCoastDidds, UmbrageofSnow, SpaceAnemone, chickenwarlord, DatSwan
Jimmmmm (1): raerae
raerae (2): ashersky, mcmcsalot
2.71828..... (2): LaLight, Awaclus
shraeye (1): Jimmmmm
SpaceAnemone (2): faust, Uncleeurope
Since the lynch was guaranteed here, we can ignore votes after this. The 2.71 vote's also irrelevent for the Robz wagon: it's better if we remove him from that group to make conclusions. We can also add Uncle to the Robz list because of his vote mobility around deadline (voted after UoS, moved to Jimmmm after chicken). Thus, our groups are:
Not to say it wasn't good work, it is just the assumption that the Robz wagon was inevitable at this point is odd.
MIX - Could you elaborate on where you are drawing these conclusions from?
Robz888 -- Actually, his inactivity here doesn't feel totally like it did in RMM51. Here he seems to be reading and sheeping, rather than too busy to be present. I certainly have sympathy for people who find interacting with a big group on D1 tough, but that's not really the vibe I get from him either. Of the major wagons that I haven't ruled out, he's looking the most votable.
Vote: Robz
Here I feel that the weird thing was throwing away so many people off their lynch pool then not getting better scumreads than Robz. The whole post's also a lot of words to essencially sheep 2.71 since that's, ultimately, what drove them to vote...yet they don't say it here. Yes, I've said this before, but it keeps being true. Also, if you read it all, it has exactly 1 scumread (Robz) and then whatever it is that Space thinks of me, I still don't know what "case" they were talking about, but I'm assuming it's a scumread too?
Space null/towny
I did like the attention to how each person justified their vote. We don't usually do that.Not to say it wasn't good work, it is just the assumption that the Robz wagon was inevitable at this point is odd.
MIX - Could you elaborate on where you are drawing these conclusions from?
I'm willing to say it wasn't good work.
MiX's post seems less like it's trying to sort people and more like it's trying to be a big wall of effort before throwing out the conclusions he wanted to reach.
Basically, in multi-ball a lynch is hard to pick a scum read off because it could very well be scum lynching the other team, and poof! they are townie now. NKs are another matter. I think the two NKs show an intersectionality of veteran players that make me think they are scum (on one side or the other, just not town.)Which kills would have made you think that scum contains inexperienced players?
Rising to the top of the list for me is ashersky or faust, but now I need to read D2
I did do this. I just don't want to share.I feel like NK analysis is more useful here than normally.
You want to actually do this instead of just dropping a post saying it's a good idea?
Basically, in multi-ball a lynch is hard to pick a scum read off because it could very well be scum lynching the other team, and poof! they are townie now. NKs are another matter. I think the two NKs show an intersectionality of veteran players that make me think they are scum (on one side or the other, just not town.)Which kills would have made you think that scum contains inexperienced players?
Rising to the top of the list for me is ashersky or faust, but now I need to read D2
Not to say it wasn't good work, it is just the assumption that the Robz wagon was inevitable at this point is odd.
MIX - Could you elaborate on where you are drawing these conclusions from?
I'm willing to say it wasn't good work.
MiX's post seems less like it's trying to sort people and more like it's trying to be a big wall of effort before throwing out the conclusions he wanted to reach.
I've done a first round of wagon-gazing. There aren't many occasions on D1 where more than two of the green names (including my own, from my PoV) are interacting with the same wagon, with the exception of a five-person wagon on e.
At its peak, the wagon is:
2.71828..... (5): mcmcsalot, LaLight, Robz888, Awaclus, WestCoastDidds
So given that it's stable for almost 80 posts, it seems pretty likely that at least one of e, LL, Awaclus or Didds is scum. In a "normal-sized" game, a fiver-person town-on-town wagon is significantly rare, but with so many players in here for D1, I would expect at least a slightly higher chance. There'd even be a case for there being one of each scumteam, if we have two multi-person teams. That seems kind of a stretch when we're only talking about six players in total, though, which probably means it would be smart to check the baseline assumptions about how likely it is for there to be a scum (or one of each scum) in a group of n players. I'll tabulate some numbers when I'm not so sleepy, but right now it's after midnight and I desperately need an early night.
Here's a description of how the e wagon came about, in case a summary is useful for anyone (and since I'd typed it all before realising that it might be more interesting for most people if I just to jump straight to the interesting part):
By around #200, e has had votes from faust and mcmc for a while.
Faust moves to Robz at #265.
Robz joins mcmc on e at #268.
Robz moves to Chicken at #361.
LL joins mcmc on e at #391.
Robz joins them at #402.
Awaclus joins at #473.
Didds joins at #482.
This wagon, the largest so far in the game at that point, stays stable till #561, when Didds moves off onto MiX.
mcm moves to raerae at #643, the the rest stay till Robz moves over to the growing LL wagon at #781.
Basically, in multi-ball a lynch is hard to pick a scum read off because it could very well be scum lynching the other team, and poof! they are townie now. NKs are another matter. I think the two NKs show an intersectionality of veteran players that make me think they are scum (on one side or the other, just not town.)Which kills would have made you think that scum contains inexperienced players?
Rising to the top of the list for me is ashersky or faust, but now I need to read D2
I think an inexperienced player would have killed someone more active than Jimmmm. mcmcsalot anyone would have killed. I think the combination of the two kills points more toward a veteran of the forum than a newer member of the forum. Again, not one kill or the other, but both kills together make me think that odds are there exists scum among veteran players.
And this could also just be one player teamed with a newer player.
By way of introduction. This is my 6th game...2 newbie games, two RMM, and one guillotine game, but before that I’d never even heard of mafia.. I’m a she or they, I’m an hour behind forum time, I get up early and go to bed early, I’m generally WCD or Didds, and I’m prone to fluffy chatting and newb mistakes...I’m working on correcting one of those.(bold is mine)
I’ve never played with MiX, Raerae, shraeye, chicken, or Jimmm. Eddie’s first game was my first game so I was there with faust, UoS, and LL when he went from Uncle to Eddie.
By way of introduction. This is my 6th game...2 newbie games, two RMM, and one guillotine game, but before that I’d never even heard of mafia.. I’m a she or they, I’m an hour behind forum time, I get up early and go to bed early, I’m generally WCD or Didds, and I’m prone to fluffy chatting and newb mistakes...I’m working on correcting one of those.(bold is mine)
I’ve never played with MiX, Raerae, shraeye, chicken, or Jimmm. Eddie’s first game was my first game so I was there with faust, UoS, and LL when he went from Uncle to Eddie.
See, this is what I am talking about when it comes to the NK. I just don't feel like someone who has never played with another player just kills Jimmmmm N1 after the lackluster D1 play from Jimmmmm. I just don't see WCD being on the team that killed Jimmmmm. (doesn't mean they weren't on the team that killed mcmc)
And this could also just be one player teamed with a newer player.
By way of introduction. This is my 6th game...2 newbie games, two RMM, and one guillotine game, but before that I’d never even heard of mafia.. I’m a she or they, I’m an hour behind forum time, I get up early and go to bed early, I’m generally WCD or Didds, and I’m prone to fluffy chatting and newb mistakes...I’m working on correcting one of those.(bold is mine)
I’ve never played with MiX, Raerae, shraeye, chicken, or Jimmm. Eddie’s first game was my first game so I was there with faust, UoS, and LL when he went from Uncle to Eddie.
See, this is what I am talking about when it comes to the NK. I just don't feel like someone who has never played with another player just kills Jimmmmm N1 after the lackluster D1 play from Jimmmmm. I just don't see WCD being on the team that killed Jimmmmm. (doesn't mean they weren't on the team that killed mcmc)
This reasoning is at odds with this:And this could also just be one player teamed with a newer player.
Why couldn't WCD just be on the team that killed Jimmmmm where a vet suggested the Jimmmmm kill?
Yeah, I'm with Ash, let's make this inevitable now that faust clearly isn't happening.
Vote: MiX
The one that really gets me is somehow winding up null/town on Space after all that.
Why would you think the Robz lynch was GTD at the point of my vote. It took 10 to lynch, the wagons were at 6-4, and the potential people to vote "not robz" before deadline were: Rae, Ashes, MCMC, LL, Awaclus, Jimmm, Faust, Eddie and any active players on the Robz Wagon.
Datswan votes for Robz because he doesn't want his vote to go to waste and he doesn't want to lynch Space.
Awaclus jumps on.
I don't want to lynch Space either and it's looking unlikely anything else is going to pick up steam so I jump on too.
I don't buy the case on Datswan, but chicken's strongest scumread being Robz does seem strange. The main problem with all this VCA is that the Robz lynch wasn't scummy. Really, I'd say he provoked it. The last time he did that, his getting lynched was actually helpful for town.
You are saying that out of Awaclus, WCD, and ESFW you would lynch WCD?
After reading WCD I could totally vote there, don't have anything specific to pull out of the reread, just nothing extremely townie that I noticed.
You are saying that out of Awaclus, WCD, and ESFW you would lynch WCD?
I think EFHW is also a good target, need to look back at LaLight/EFHW
Here's my main problem with Awaclus's reasoning right now.Yes. Yeah. Yup.
More discussion means scum is forced to lie more. They have to think about the information they have versus the information they're supposed to have, and sometimes they mess up. They have to justify their votes, and if their real reason for voting is help their own wincon, they have to come up with a lie. The more we force scum to lie, the more likely we are to catch them in a lie.
So letting each town player draw they're own conclusions and encouraging votes with no explanation attached just lets scum hide. I know Awaclus knows this, so it feels to me like Awaclus is just trying to justify his own scummy behavior and enable scummy behavior from others.
Ok, why did you just narrow down the list to 3 people while you are still voting for somebody else??I am contributing, where I have things to say. I am just very succinct! I gave up on rereading the thread, though. It was too much of a slog. So I don't have many things to say about the past. I am planning to do targeted rereads of you and e.
You should absolutely reread me faust and Awaclus too, otherwise you'll be useless today.
Ok, why did you just narrow down the list to 3 people while you are still voting for somebody else??I am contributing, where I have things to say. I am just very succinct! I gave up on rereading the thread, though. It was too much of a slog. So I don't have many things to say about the past. I am planning to do targeted rereads of you and e.
You should absolutely reread me faust and Awaclus too, otherwise you'll be useless today.
I reread e. Totally seems like e!e. One clashy note was in 1207 he says "the other team," but we don't know there are two teams. So this puts him maybe on an SK suspect list. His analyzing the nk's assuming teams distracts town from considering there being an SK. His scumhunting seems legit. He's being pretty towny, which isn't the best strategy for SK, so meh.Yeah, baked into his analysis was a definite " TEAMS are making these kills" bias. My first reaction was to think he was on a team, but I guess it does make the most sense from SK, as they are the only ones not paranoid about what invisible evil lurks in their dreams.
I've done a first round of wagon-gazing. There aren't many occasions on D1 where more than two of the green names (including my own, from my PoV) are interacting with the same wagon, with the exception of a five-person wagon on e.
At its peak, the wagon is:
2.71828..... (5): mcmcsalot, LaLight, Robz888, Awaclus, WestCoastDidds
So given that it's stable for almost 80 posts, it seems pretty likely that at least one of e, LL, Awaclus or Didds is scum.
Really like this wagon grab by Space, and especially since I know I am town it does add extra suspicion to WCD, Awaclus, andLaLightEFHW
What information would you gain from my lynch?
All you had to do was ask! I'm town.What information would you gain from my lynch?
LL was a very important wagon D1 and I would love to know if you're town or scum.
Have now reread Glooble and I noticed some patterns. I haven't played with him before, though, so input from those who have would be welcome.
First, he does a lot of advice-giving to town. "Remember" and "keep in mind" come up several times. It seems like he is trying to seem pro-town. His extra attention to deadlines can be a scum trying to look town trait as well. He makes many statements about how to play, why information is important, etc and gets in a couple arguments about these. Trying to look super virtuous?
Second, He does take some stances on people, not just playing philosophies. He pushes Jimmmmm most of Day 1, for lurking and being low-effort and hedgy. Late in Day 1 he switches to Lalight, who he sees as playing very similarly to Jimmmmm. Reluctantly votes for Robz. Scum!Glooble could be responsible for the Jimmmmm nk, if scum are looking to kill other scum. I do think he is scum-hunting, but that's NAI for this game.
Third, lately he's upset with Awaclus. Something we all have to go through. He seems determined to change how Awaclus plays, which seems unlikely to work out.
Point 1 leads me to vote: Glooble.
Question for you, faust: What did you think of my comment that it would be useful to have baseline numbers for the likelihood of at least one scum in a set of n players? Do you agree that it would be town-useful info to have? If so, have you not followed up on it because you too are sorely strapped for time? Or do you think it's more useful to scum than town, but for some reason have decided not to scumread me for suggesting that it would be useful?I don't think it is particularly useful for anyone. It doesn't hurt, but man there are better things you could do with your time. Calculating the expected number of scum in the setup is already nontrivial because you have to factor in that we had 2 town kills, which makes SK more likely.
Really like this wagon grab by Space, and especially since I know I am town it does add extra suspicion to WCD, Awaclus, andLaLightEFHW
How can you assert towniness based on what was at that point two in-game posts? :-PIf it is possible that 200 000 posts give you an indication of a person's alignment, then it is equally possible that 2 do.
When I saw the 2 votes thing I assumed there was a claim I hadn't seen.Great, so everyone gets to do "let's claim what roles we do/do not have" game.
Vote: Jimmmmm because there is no reason town should make that post.
I had a pretty solid I think trusting my gut with her for now makes sense, at least until she's shown that she can definitely pull off this level of townie-feeling-ness as scum.
I've done a first round of wagon-gazing. There aren't many occasions on D1 where more than two of the green names (including my own, from my PoV) are interacting with the same wagon, with the exception of a five-person wagon on e.
At its peak, the wagon is:
2.71828..... (5): mcmcsalot, LaLight, Robz888, Awaclus, WestCoastDidds
So given that it's stable for almost 80 posts, it seems pretty likely that at least one of e, LL, Awaclus or Didds is scum.
Really like this wagon grab by Space, and especially since I know I am town it does add extra suspicion to WCD, Awaclus, andLaLightEFHW
This was the third part of the VCA (second was LL/Space wagon) but Space had already done this (and I had nothing to add), I agree with it but I wouldn't want to lynch e today. EFHW is a great information lynch, Didds is on the Robz wagon part and Awaclus is Awaclus, I already talked about them.
Everyone scumreading me: what, exactly, do you think town!me would do instead? I really don't like how we're all converging to 2 wagons, seems like a very easy way to remove pressure off Swan and faust, which are now my top scumreads because of this. I guess I'll have to go for Awaclus, but I still prefer lynching scumreads more than someone everyone loooooves to lynch.
Swan's D1's pretty weird, he starts by saying setup talk is scum's prefered topic, then proceed to talk about setup for a while, then goes to a NAI topic...and then does 3 things: says Glooble is town, asks chicken some stuff, and votes Robz. Not to say that he was lurking, just...he seems to be doing nothing. The vast majority of his posts are about the setup or the MiX!Didds thing and he barely interacts with anyone (essencially just chicken). His second vote is his last one where he doesn't even say what he thinks about LL or Space, he simply drops a vote and goes...I don't want to scumread him based on activity, but still...
Does the above describe town!Swan or scum!Swan? It's scummy but maybe it's coherent with what town!Swan usually does...although I doubt it. I can't promise anything, but I'll try to metaread Swan untill deadline, hopefully it's not to late to change my/town's mind (depending on what conclusion I get)...
We should start thinking about deadline: who'll be avaiable? I should be able to make some phone posts to move my vote around if necessary.
In addition to the leading wagons, would still support faust or 2.7. Faust for previous reasons, 2.7 for scumslipping (teams).How could that be a scumslip?
Then this Jimmm vote:I just realiyed that the Jimmmmm post here means that scum knew he wasn|t Kai Winn and that might have been enough to push them towards killing him.When I saw the 2 votes thing I assumed there was a claim I hadn't seen.Great, so everyone gets to do "let's claim what roles we do/do not have" game.
Vote: Jimmmmm because there is no reason town should make that post.
As far as I can tell, Jimmm was confused by some poorly-chosen wording that made it look a little like MiX had claimed Kai Winn. While I agree there's no reason for town!Jimmm to make that post (thereby confirming that he is not Kai Winn.) It doesn't make any more sense for scum!Jimmmm to do it. It's not really going to encourage other players to start claiming randomly as faust seems to imply. Jimmm's confirmation that he is not one role seems way more like carelessness than malice. So minor scum points to faust for this vote.
In addition to the leading wagons, would still support faust or 2.7. Faust for previous reasons, 2.7 for scumslipping (teams).I still don't understand your reasons for suspecting me.
In addition to the leading wagons, would still support faust or 2.7. Faust for previous reasons, 2.7 for scumslipping (teams).I still don't understand your reasons for suspecting me.
In addition to the leading wagons, would still support faust or 2.7. Faust for previous reasons, 2.7 for scumslipping (teams).How could that be a scumslip?
In addition to the leading wagons, would still support faust or 2.7. Faust for previous reasons, 2.7 for scumslipping (teams).How could that be a scumslip?
When one defaults to the use of team here, I think it is likely to be a scumslip if one is part of a team oneself (thereby self-projecting), or if one is the SK (thereby showing known info).
And if you want to use that as a scum slip be my guest. I was probably more presumptive than I needed to be, but this is multi-ball, right?Now is probably a good time for you to read the setup.
And if you want to use that as a scum slip be my guest. I was probably more presumptive than I needed to be, but this is multi-ball, right?Now is probably a good time for you to read the setup.
Isn't that literally the argument you made???????In addition to the leading wagons, would still support faust or 2.7. Faust for previous reasons, 2.7 for scumslipping (teams).How could that be a scumslip?
And if you want to use that as a scum slip be my guest. I was probably more presumptive than I needed to be, but this is multi-ball, right?Now is probably a good time for you to read the setup.
I don't like that heptuple question marks ( the most important punctuation combo) gets formatted as emoji faces (which barely count as punctuation).Isn't that literally the argument you made???????In addition to the leading wagons, would still support faust or 2.7. Faust for previous reasons, 2.7 for scumslipping (teams).How could that be a scumslip?
I don't like that heptuple question marks ( the most important punctuation combo) gets formatted as emoji faces (which barely count as punctuation).Isn't that literally the argument you made???????In addition to the leading wagons, would still support faust or 2.7. Faust for previous reasons, 2.7 for scumslipping (teams).How could that be a scumslip?
And if you want to use that as a scum slip be my guest. I was probably more presumptive than I needed to be, but this is multi-ball, right?Now is probably a good time for you to read the setup.
Serious question e, how much thought have you given to this setup?
Also, I've reread some town!Swan and it feels like this game's lacking his big rereads and VCAs that he seems to love to do but haven't read his scum games. I wish I had better scumreads...
plus MiX is still pushing this thing about "locking in" the vote on Robz being inherently scummy
I'll also accept a faust or Awaclus lynch. Awaclus for their position in the wagon, unquestionable, which means he would (theoretically) be safe from VCAs today and faust for...hey, I actually like the manipulation case! But really just because the only way faust flips scum is if every single town joins on him. I'll have to reread him later...
I'll also accept a faust or Awaclus lynch. Awaclus for their position in the wagon, unquestionable, which means he would (theoretically) be safe from VCAs today and faust for...hey, I actually like the manipulation case! But really just because the only way faust flips scum is if every single town joins on him. I'll have to reread him later...
MiX: What did you mean by every single town having to join on faust? And how hesitant are you, really, about an Awaclus lynch?
My wagon is not at all uninformative.That much is certainly true.
My wagon is not at all uninformative.
UoS why does Awaclus feel different to you than last game? Can you elaborate on that please? Because he feels pretty similar to me.
My wagon is not at all uninformative.
UoS why does Awaclus feel different to you than last game? Can you elaborate on that please? Because he feels pretty similar to me.
Awaclus, what's my read on e.
I think MiX just demonstrated he doesn't need it either so why are we doing this?
Also I sorted the top wagons to the top, unlike Joth, who just leaves wagon order random like a weirdo.That's my mod meta too, except I accept vobes (like any normal mod would)
What that mini-reread of D2 made me realize is that faust actually thinks Awaclus' vote on Robz is scummy because it locked in the lynch...which is just weird.
I will also accept vobes.Also I sorted the top wagons to the top, unlike Joth, who just leaves wagon order random like a weirdo.That's my mod meta too, except I accept vobes (like any normal mod would)
What that mini-reread of D2 made me realize is that faust actually thinks Awaclus' vote on Robz is scummy because it locked in the lynch...which is just weird.
That's literally exactly what you did (blame the person who locked in the Robz vote) except you think that belongs to a different person. This is THE MOST opportunistic shift I could imagine. Like, you just rewrote the book on scum-deflection/fake-reason-giving.
Vote: Mix
People throwing around "vobes", has Joth expressed a definite ruling one way or the other on whether that kind of voting is allowed? If not, I think it's extremely unhelpful to obscure the vote count in the lead-up to a deadline by making not-necessarily-accepted votes.
Also I sorted the top wagons to the top, unlike Joth, who just leaves wagon order random like a weirdo.
You scumreading Jimmmm and hypothetical scum not wanting to NK him because he is “lynchable” are not the same thing.
Unless you are saying that as scum. Then it is the same thing. I think this is one of those scumthoughts being spoken as a normal thing accidentally.
Good enough for a vote: faust at this point.
I said it could be a purposeful SK strategy to get town to be thinking there are two teams.Isn't that literally the argument you made???????In addition to the leading wagons, would still support faust or 2.7. Faust for previous reasons, 2.7 for scumslipping (teams).How could that be a scumslip?
I'll also accept a faust or Awaclus lynch. Awaclus for their position in the wagon, unquestionable, which means he would (theoretically) be safe from VCAs today and faust for...hey, I actually like the manipulation case! But really just because the only way faust flips scum is if every single town joins on him. I'll have to reread him later...
MiX: What did you mean by every single town having to join on faust? And how hesitant are you, really, about an Awaclus lynch?
I don't think scum wants to bus faust.
So either:
2.71828....., Awaclus, UmbrageOfSnow, MiX, UncleEurope are all town
or:
faust is town
or:
Scum took MiX's statement and decided to bus faust.
The faust wagon is stinking up the joint! Vote: MiX for being the scummiest of that lot
Hard no on that bs faust wagon. What in the actual hell??Wouldn't he be more careful as scum?
Extra double super vote: MiX
He's been nothing if not opportunistic, he's jumped into every wagon ever, and lied, there's no other option, vote MiX.
What do you think is scummy about Awaclus? I couldn't find anything.The faust wagon is stinking up the joint! Vote: MiX for being the scummiest of that lot
Interesting, so you see MiX as scummier than Awaclus?
Hard no on that bs faust wagon. What in the actual hell??Wouldn't he be more careful as scum?
Extra double super vote: MiX
He's been nothing if not opportunistic, he's jumped into every wagon ever, and lied, there's no other option, vote MiX.
I don’t necessarily see anything specific either, just wondering why WCD shad a vote on Awaclus for awhile but now sees MiX as scummier once a power role makes a push on him.Isn't anybody pushing anybody "a power role making a push"??
I don't see the differenceI said it could be a purposeful SK strategy to get town to be thinking there are two teams.Isn't that literally the argument you made???????In addition to the leading wagons, would still support faust or 2.7. Faust for previous reasons, 2.7 for scumslipping (teams).How could that be a scumslip?
I don’t necessarily see anything specific either, just wondering why WCD shad a vote on Awaclus for awhile but now sees MiX as scummier once a power role makes a push on him.Isn't anybody pushing anybody "a power role making a push"??
I don’t necessarily see anything specific either, just wondering why WCD shad a vote on Awaclus for awhile but now sees MiX as scummier once a power role makes a push on him.Isn't anybody pushing anybody "a power role making a push"??
Fine, whatever, but her switching from Awaclus to MiX as “the scummiest player” seems opportunistic.
Stating that MiX is the scummiest between the two, after having sat on Awaclus for a long time, and and just throwing that line out seems like justification.
Stating that MiX is the scummiest between the two, after having sat on Awaclus for a long time, and and just throwing that line out seems like justification.
I guess I'd qualify it as odd but not opportunistic. We, however, are allowed to have different opinions of things. Que bueno.
Stating that MiX is the scummiest between the two, after having sat on Awaclus for a long time, and and just throwing that line out seems like justification.But that also describes me, which is sure to make Spaces eyebrows fall off. Coincidences aside, I am interested in hearing more from WCD
I was already on Space, not doing anything I haven’t done yet.
And it can’t be stinky if it’s right.
I was already on Space, not doing anything I haven’t done yet.
And it can’t be stinky if it’s right.
Yes it can. It’s multiball.
This faust wagon happened really fast and I'm not super into it.
Hard no on that bs faust wagon. What in the actual hell??
faust wagon materializing out of nowhere stinks real bad.
The faust wagon is stinking up the joint!
Vote: WCD
Vote: WCD
You know at a certain point this becomes more a commitment to being useless and having no impact on who gets lynched than a keeping-things-flexible strategy.
Since I am not voting, might as well vote: Faust
Vote: faust
Vote: faust
PPE: Vote: faust while I reread the rest, also wow that's a lot of votes.
Vote: Faust
Vote: WCD
You know at a certain point this becomes more a commitment to being useless and having no impact on who gets lynched than a keeping-things-flexible strategy.
There are more goals that exist than those two.
I’ll be around before deadline.You didn't want to join my wagon? Curios.
@faust, do you think EFHW is scum?Not particularly.
I also have a question for faust. Faust, how random do you think D1 lynches are? Does the size of the game or the fact that its multiball change this?I think D1 lynches are not very random. There are 2 factors coming in, one being town scumhunting, the other the scumteam working together for a mislynch. Both of these lead to a correct lynch ratio that is about the same as random, but that does not mean that the lynch choice is actually random.
So either:I mean, it's the second, but also it's multiball, so this whole argument is fundamentally flawed.
2.71828....., Awaclus, UmbrageOfSnow, MiX, UncleEurope are all town
or:
faust is town
or:
Scum took MiX's statement and decided to bus faust.
Extra double super vote: MiXI do not assume this is for real, but you know... things like this should be avoided.
ChickenWarlord newb pass needs to end tomorrow.Honestly, given what MiX put out in his analysis a few pages back - I DO seem hella scummy and I'm surprised more people haven't put me as a vote.
Thar be scum in these here players.Agreed.This faust wagon happened really fast and I'm not super into it.Hard no on that bs faust wagon. What in the actual hell??faust wagon materializing out of nowhere stinks real bad.The faust wagon is stinking up the joint!
Also, where is this coming from, I've been pushing faust all game, I've given multiple reasons, Ash was on him for a different reason, MiX is doing self-preservation, Eddie votes for everyone. The only surprise is e, and he's been in lurkmode all day and hadn't really weighed in.It worth clarifying that ash was not among those voting for me. Awaclus is.
The people who readily defend me but refuse to vote Awaclus are the scummiest bunch.It does seem like there are probably some scum rushing to defend you, so when you turn up dead and town they can claim to have at least been on your side - but framing it that way seems so absolute and offputting.
Honestly looking at the staunch counterlynch defense for Faust makes me believe that there is at least some concentrated effort going on. It is also possible that he is so off-base that scum also want to keep him alive as well. I'm definitely inclined to agree with UOS here.Hedge hedge hedge.
@faust, did you post that NK analysis? Seems like you'll die with that info if you're town.That's a risk I am willing to take.
Vote: Awaclus, great reaction, would vote for faust again. @faust, did you post that NK analysis? Seems like you'll die with that info if you're town.
Vote: Awaclus, great reaction, would vote for faust again. @faust, did you post that NK analysis? Seems like you'll die with that info if you're town.As questionable as I might find your methods - you certainly end up with some interesting results.
Vote: Awaclus, great reaction, would vote for faust again. @faust, did you post that NK analysis? Seems like you'll die with that info if you're town.As questionable as I might find your methods - you certainly end up with some interesting results.
Why would he die with the info? Not getting lynched today, do you plan on NKing him?
I assume he's getting NKd, yes.
PPE 1: Uncle, why did you vote for Space?
Why would he die with the info? Not getting lynched today, do you plan on NKing him?I assume he's getting NKd, yes.
PPE 1: Uncle, why did you vote for Space?
I’ll be around before deadline.You didn't want to join my wagon? Curios.
How has hammering worked out for you so far?I’ll be around before deadline.You didn't want to join my wagon? Curios.
I wanted to hammer your wagon. But you knew that.
How has hammering worked out for you so far?I’ll be around before deadline.You didn't want to join my wagon? Curios.
I wanted to hammer your wagon. But you knew that.
ChickenWarlord newb pass needs to end tomorrow.Honestly, given what MiX put out in his analysis a few pages back - I DO seem hella scummy and I'm surprised more people haven't put me as a vote.
That said, I think we gain a lot of info with a faust or an Awaclus lynch.
Vote: Awaclus
If this goes through and Awa is town, I'm going to be giving faust the side-eye, should I remain alive to do so.
How long until deadline?
Vote: chicken, yeah, I'm perfectly fine with this. Chicken, what do you think we should be asking you?Honestly, I have no clue. I think the only interesting information I could share would serve scum better than town.
How long until deadline?
2 hours and 20 minutes.
Vote: Awaclus
PPE: wait really?
Did the US clocks change or something? I seem to be 4 hours ahead of forum time right now instead of 5!
No waiting for lunch break for me, then.
Vote: Awaclus for consolidation.
I'd still like to hear from people who've played with Eddie before about whether they think his play is really town!Eddie, because he's almost declared a scumread on everyone in the game by this point, and I don't like that.
Okay yeah Uncle's right, daylight saving or something messed me up. 80 minutes now.I'm voting for Awaclus currently. I don't like the cryptic way that Awa has been presenting their information (though the same could be said for faust as well). Honestly at this point I am a bit lost on exactly what the play is here. All three decently discussed lynches for today give us some good info and I'm more inclined to go with either you or awaclus because of how much longer the both of your have been on the table and analyzed.
@chicken, who are you voting for and why? I forgot, no time to reread
Vote: Awacluswtf?
PPE: hammer?
joth, can you please verify that vote count 2.9 was correct before posting the next vote count?
I'd still like to hear from people who've played with Eddie before about whether they think his play is really town!Eddie, because he's almost declared a scumread on everyone in the game by this point, and I don't like that.I know I townread him for that stuff when he was scum. But i don't think it is scummy behaviour.
Awaclus is one loved dude...?
I'd still like to hear from people who've played with Eddie before about whether they think his play is really town!Eddie, because he's almost declared a scumread on everyone in the game by this point, and I don't like that.I know I townread him for that stuff when he was scum. But i don't think it is scummy behaviour.
Good morning...so early...dailyligt saving stone is hard. Where we at?
Good morning...so early...dailyligt saving stone is hard. Where we at?
I really should read the setup more carefully nowYou should. Maquis is not SK.
I really should read the setup more carefully nowYou should. Maquis is not SK.
Ah, we get a scum flip. I guess that means it's reread time.
I know some of you will have questions. I have answers, but they require me to roleclaim.
Ah, we get a scum flip. I guess that means it's reread time.Why do we have questions? Because of your interactions with Shraeye?
I know some of you will have questions. I have answers, but they require me to roleclaim.
Ah, we get a scum flip. I guess that means it's reread time.
I know some of you will have questions. I have answers, but they require me to roleclaim.
Ah, we get a scum flip. I guess that means it's reread time.Why do we have questions? Because of your interactions with Shraeye?
I know some of you will have questions. I have answers, but they require me to roleclaim.
I was right about there being scum in shraeye/raerae/WCD apparently, but that doesn't make WCD and raerae less likely to be scum.But... if they're less likely to be shraeye's partners, that does mean they are less likely scum...
It does probably make them somewhat less likely to be scum with shraeye.
The people that followed him are equally responsible in my mind. But, yeah, ok.Ah, we get a scum flip. I guess that means it's reread time.Why do we have questions? Because of your interactions with Shraeye?
I know some of you will have questions. I have answers, but they require me to roleclaim.
My main concern around faust is that he was a major driver of the Awaclus mislynch.
Ah, we get a scum flip. I guess that means it's reread time.
I know some of you will have questions. I have answers, but they require me to roleclaim.
Vote: faust
Well, that was a good night. I need to reread shraeye now.
PPE: can I ever get first post?
My main concern around faust is that he was a major driver of the Awaclus mislynch.
Vote Count 2.6
Awaclus (4): faust, WestCoastDidds, shraeye, Glooble
MiX (4): raerae, Awaclus, chickenwarlord, ashersky
faust (1): UmbrageOfSnow
DatSwan (1): MiX
chickenwarlord (1): Uncleeurope
Not voting (5): 2.71828....., SpaceAnemone, EFHW, DatSwan
With 15 alive it takes 8 to lynch most players. Day 2 ends at 8:00 am forum time, Monday March 11th.
Vote Count 2.7
Awaclus (4): faust, WestCoastDidds, Glooble, SpaceAnemone
MiX (4): raerae, chickenwarlord, ashersky, shraeye
faust (5): 2.71828....., Awaclus, UmbrageOfSnow, MiX, UncleEurope
Glooble (1): EFHW
Not voting (1): DatSwan
With 15 alive it takes 8 to lynch most players. Day 2 ends at 8:00 am forum time, Monday March 11th. That's in 12 hours and change.
Vote Count 2.9
Awaclus (3): faust, Glooble, DatSwan
MiX (5): raerae, chickenwarlord, ashersky, shraeye, WestCoastDidds,
faust (4): 2.71828....., Awaclus, UmbrageOfSnow, MiX
Glooble (1): EFHW
Uncleeurope (1): SpaceAnemone
SpaceAnemone (1): Uncleeurope
With 15 alive it takes 8 to lynch most players. Day 2 ends at 8:00 am forum time, Monday March 11th. That's in less than 12 hours.
Vote Count 2.10Awaclus (8): faust, Glooble, DatSwan, chickenwarlord, Uncleeurope, MiX, SpaceAnemone, 2.71828.....
MiX (4): raerae, ashersky, shraeye, WestCoastDidds
faust (2): Awaclus, UmbrageOfSnow
Glooble (1): EFHW
I really should read the setup more carefully now
I was right about there being scum in shraeye/raerae/WCD apparently, but that doesn't make WCD and raerae less likely to be scum.But... if they're less likely to be shraeye's partners, that does mean they are less likely scum...
It does probably make them somewhat less likely to be scum with shraeye.
Oh I just finished a reread as well. I can recommend it.
Vote: raerae
Vote: faust
Well, that was a good night. I need to reread shraeye now.
PPE: can I ever get first post?
Dumb vote. Why would you do that? You think faust killed glooble? You think faust is shraeye's buddy? Dumb vote.
Impossible, this is D3, I am never wrong beyond D2.Oh I just finished a reread as well. I can recommend it.
Vote: raerae
Your wrong.
Vote: faust
Well, that was a good night. I need to reread shraeye now.
PPE: can I ever get first post?
Dumb vote. Why would you do that? You think faust killed glooble? You think faust is shraeye's buddy? Dumb vote.
So you're townreading faust off the Glooble kill?
Impossible, this is D3, I am never wrong beyond D2.Oh I just finished a reread as well. I can recommend it.
Vote: raerae
Your wrong.
Impossible, this is D3, I am never wrong beyond D2.Oh I just finished a reread as well. I can recommend it.
Vote: raerae
Your wrong.
Sheesh, I knew I was forgetting something.
Vote: raerae
So how do you feel?
Impossible, this is D3, I am never wrong beyond D2.Oh I just finished a reread as well. I can recommend it.
Vote: raerae
Your wrong.
Sheesh, I knew I was forgetting something.
Vote: raerae
Hehe
So, when I get some time, I'll peek back and see if glooble had a middling level scumread, that's the person I'll be voting for today.You certainly have a strange idea of scumhunting. We have a scum flip, and your top priority is to reread some dead townie?
That's a very interesting claim. I have to admit, faust having a cop result on Awaclus was the last thing I assumed when I saw faust doing that.
Unvote
PPE: everything but faust's claim
So, when I get some time, I'll peek back and see if glooble had a middling level scumread, that's the person I'll be voting for today.You certainly have a strange idea of scumhunting. We have a scum flip, and your top priority is to reread some dead townie?
also people should scan glooble for potential crumbs
also people should scan glooble for potential crumbs
Space did a lot to contribute to the Awaclus mislynch, and it's a scummy push on faust (who is scummy.)
Makes me think Space probably isn't scum with MiX though.
How likely do people who know Joth well think it is for him to have rolled a game, landed in a three-plus-one scum scenario, then decided to assign the three-person faction the purple colour, saving the more traditional red flip colour for the singleton SK?
Question for Mods: am I allowed to use flip colours for flipped players in posts I make about wagons?
also people should scan glooble for potential crumbs
He was a flavour cop, though, right? Is crumbing going to give us anything useful without knowing anz results he got, given that flavour and alignment are mostly decoupled?
Working on a reread of glooble and hit a button, went back a page, everything reloaded so now I'm annoyed and I'll finish later. In the meantime, glooble had a townread on faust but was suspicious of UoS. EFHW was pushing a gloobs lunch unsuccessfully.Could one reason they nk'd him, since he was proving difficult to lynch.
also people should scan glooble for potential crumbs
He was a flavour cop, though, right? Is crumbing going to give us anything useful without knowing anz results he got, given that flavour and alignment are mostly decoupled?
How likely do people who know Joth well think it is for him to have rolled a game, landed in a three-plus-one scum scenario, then decided to assign the three-person faction the purple colour, saving the more traditional red flip colour for the singleton SK?Any reasonable mod would have determined colours prior to rolling the setup.
It is notable that shraeye flipping Maquis makes an SK scenario less likely (from 2/3 down to 1/2) - actual probabilities are a bit lower as you have to factor in the Ferengi info. The threat of dobule scum teams is real.
5). Scum!faust wouldn't know if Awaclus was town.ebwop
It doesn't matter either way. Why is point 5 in there? I don't think your overall argument works.5). Scum!faust wouldn't know if Awaclus was town.ebwop
3) I do not understand why Faust felt the need to claim here. What are they actually doing? Nothing! The other skum faction now knows what... not to kill faust? It doesn't really matter what his alignment is. It also of course comes out as super towny... which is something that faust literally never cares about.People were starting to vote for me. I would not be able to dispel that suspicion without claiming. As UoS said on D2 already, I looked like I was manipulating people... because well I did try that. Without context people would rightfully read that as scummy.
5) Voting actions on Awaclus make sense as town, but they also make sense for someone in Ferengi that is skum knowing Awaclus was Town (one less to deal with).A scum!Ferengi would not know that Awaclus is town. Also scum would much rather get rid of some player with an actual chance of being a dangerous PR.
6) This is exactly the point in time of the game I would expect a skum team to make a bold play in order to dictate lynch candidates, or at the minimum remove themselves from the pool.Where does my post dictate lynch candidates? It should also be obvious rereading me that the decision to make this play was made D2, not D3.
I completely disagree that this claim was helpful. It has told us essentially nothing. It has just given skum that is not apart of Faust's team a reason to NOT target Faust.It is good if scum has incentive not to target me. That makes it more likely that they will target other scum.
Second, Ferengi claim is beneficial to some extent, as we can ensure that the SK Cop investigates someone who isn't already guaranteed to be non-SK. I debated whether this was worth claiming for back in D1, but decided it wasn't then. Now the potential target pool is smaller and remvoing more people from it more effective, and did I mention I had to claim anyway?
Where does it say that the odds of SK are not 2/3?Second, Ferengi claim is beneficial to some extent, as we can ensure that the SK Cop investigates someone who isn't already guaranteed to be non-SK. I debated whether this was worth claiming for back in D1, but decided it wasn't then. Now the potential target pool is smaller and remvoing more people from it more effective, and did I mention I had to claim anyway?
Did you forget about the changes to the setup? You've made this mistake twice now. Once you said "odds of SK are 2/3" which is something joth changed, and now you forgot SK cop's even night!
Share everything, hiding thoughts from us is scummyNo.
How likely do people who know Joth well think it is for him to have rolled a game, landed in a three-plus-one scum scenario, then decided to assign the three-person faction the purple colour, saving the more traditional red flip colour for the singleton SK?Any reasonable mod would have determined colours prior to rolling the setup.
I know Space caught on this, so I kinda wanna hear what they think of it.
I know Space caught on this, so I kinda wanna hear what they think of it.
Really? How do you know?
First of all, WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM
Now, if other scum had Maquis cop, do you think they would ever kill shraeye?
Well, Maquis had the same colour in the original run of this setup, if that helps you.How likely do people who know Joth well think it is for him to have rolled a game, landed in a three-plus-one scum scenario, then decided to assign the three-person faction the purple colour, saving the more traditional red flip colour for the singleton SK?Any reasonable mod would have determined colours prior to rolling the setup.
Your statement does not actually answer my question ;-)
Also, I think using the traditional red and purple for the two scum/SK colours, randomising them after the teams are rolled, is totally in line with perfect modding, and yet is not the same as your "any reasonable mod" protocol above.
"I had another thought about the setup. I’m going to pick the scum configuration with 2 coin flips rather than randomly choosing two of three teams. I think it’s better that it’s 50/50 SK+scum or scumx2 rather than 33/66 so town doesn’t get a “default assumption”." - #11Welp, that sort of stuff should really be somewhere in the setup post and not hidden in some random comment. I guess this means that the chance of having an SK are actually at below 25% now. Ugh.
I know Space caught on this, so I kinda wanna hear what they think of it.
I know Space caught on this, so I kinda wanna hear what they think of it.
Really? How do you know?
"Faust at #306: "Note also that the SK (which has a 2/3 chance of existing) is Bulletproof, so scum has further incentive not to shoot scummy people, and the SK has no incentive to shoot scum."" -#1244
Deduction skills unmatched!
I know Space caught on this, so I kinda wanna hear what they think of it.
Really? How do you know?
"Faust at #306: "Note also that the SK (which has a 2/3 chance of existing) is Bulletproof, so scum has further incentive not to shoot scummy people, and the SK has no incentive to shoot scum."" -#1244
Deduction skills unmatched!
You said "I know Space...", then when I asked how you know, you quoted faust. This makes no sense to me. Please could you explain your logic?
"I had another thought about the setup. I’m going to pick the scum configuration with 2 coin flips rather than randomly choosing two of three teams. I think it’s better that it’s 50/50 SK+scum or scumx2 rather than 33/66 so town doesn’t get a “default assumption”." - #11Welp, that sort of stuff should really be somewhere in the setup post and not hidden in some random comment. I guess this means that the chance of having an SK are actually at below 25% now. Ugh.
I know Space caught on this, so I kinda wanna hear what they think of it.
First of all, WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM1. This does not work. If they Cop someone N1 and get Maquis, then what do they do N2? They cannot guarantee that their target isn't Maquis.
Now, if other scum had Maquis cop, do you think they would ever kill shraeye? They could just make sure their target isn't Maquis every night (except N1), by copping N1 who they wanna kill D2, right? So, should Maquis cop claim to get an IC and (potencially) 2 others? (If we're trying to lynch Maquis today, which I think we should)
WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM
Thoughts?
Yes."I had another thought about the setup. I’m going to pick the scum configuration with 2 coin flips rather than randomly choosing two of three teams. I think it’s better that it’s 50/50 SK+scum or scumx2 rather than 33/66 so town doesn’t get a “default assumption”." - #11Welp, that sort of stuff should really be somewhere in the setup post and not hidden in some random comment. I guess this means that the chance of having an SK are actually at below 25% now. Ugh.
I know Space caught on this, so I kinda wanna hear what they think of it.
How? What? He did a coinflip to determine if SK existed, and then, if he does, another coinflip for what scumteam's in. Can you confirm this? Only logical explanation.
Well, Maquis had the same colour in the original run of this setup, if that helps you.How likely do people who know Joth well think it is for him to have rolled a game, landed in a three-plus-one scum scenario, then decided to assign the three-person faction the purple colour, saving the more traditional red flip colour for the singleton SK?Any reasonable mod would have determined colours prior to rolling the setup.
Your statement does not actually answer my question ;-)
Also, I think using the traditional red and purple for the two scum/SK colours, randomising them after the teams are rolled, is totally in line with perfect modding, and yet is not the same as your "any reasonable mod" protocol above.
First of all, WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM1. This does not work. If they Cop someone N1 and get Maquis, then what do they do N2? They cannot guarantee that their target isn't Maquis.
Now, if other scum had Maquis cop, do you think they would ever kill shraeye? They could just make sure their target isn't Maquis every night (except N1), by copping N1 who they wanna kill D2, right? So, should Maquis cop claim to get an IC and (potencially) 2 others? (If we're trying to lynch Maquis today, which I think we should)
WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM
Thoughts?
But more importantly,
2. I do not understand what incentive to other scum team would have to avoid shooting Maquises.
Though I think with the <25% setup point, we're coming to the conclusion that it is more likely than not that we're in a two-scum-team scenario. Which is presumably good for you personally, isn't it? I would think makes the chances of the other Ferengi being town much higher, considering Joth's earlier slip about what he'd do if both scum factions were in the group QT.I would love for this to be true, but wasn't that slip only about the possibility of the Ferengis being all scum? [checks back] Yes. But Awaclus already flipped town!Ferengi, so this does nothing.
Yes.
50% 2 scum teams
50% scum + SK, of these we have 25% SK + Mirror Universe and 25% SK + Maquis.
The actual likelihood of SK is somewhat lower because the knowledge that there is no SK among the Ferengi pushes the likelihood of having an SK down via conditional probability.
I know Space caught on this, so I kinda wanna hear what they think of it.
Really? How do you know?
"Faust at #306: "Note also that the SK (which has a 2/3 chance of existing) is Bulletproof, so scum has further incentive not to shoot scummy people, and the SK has no incentive to shoot scum."" -#1244
Deduction skills unmatched!
You said "I know Space...", then when I asked how you know, you quoted faust. This makes no sense to me. Please could you explain your logic?
Post #1244 is yours...
2) They would rather lynch, of course.Mf, maybe, but they don't want to claim Cop, so they cannot guarantee a lynch. And the sooner get get another scum to flip, the sooner town focuses their efforts on finding that scum's partners. Which helps them. Also shooting someone they don't know anything about means they stilll have more total info going into the later game. I don't think this is clear cut at all.
Oh! Okay, that's my bad for misunderstanding your word choice. "To catch onto something" is to understand it, so I thought you meant I knew about the change in likelihoods, which I was objecting to because I did not. I now think you mean something more along the lines of "Space was caught out by the change", i.e. I did not know.
Space, could you post the voting blow by blow for Days 1 and 2 in the little "code" box, like you did before in a previous game?
Vote: raerae
Only if it's easy. Take care of yourself!Space, could you post the voting blow by blow for Days 1 and 2 in the little "code" box, like you did before in a previous game?
Sure, but I won't get a chance till later/tomorrow.
In related news, I'm at something like 30% of my normal capacity right now due to an illness that is leaving me really fuzzy-headed and unfocused. Though I've made it to the office this afternoon, which is an improvement :-)
Vote: raerae
Because??
Finished Glooble D2
Vote: raerae
Because??
Beeeeecause you killed Glooble so you could push my lynch? Why did you not ask about my reason to vote for you? I need to make a complete list about everything Glooble said D2 to see if your reread checks out.
Vote: raerae
Because??
Beeeeecause you killed Glooble so you could push my lynch? Why did you not ask about my reason to vote for you? I need to make a complete list about everything Glooble said D2 to see if your reread checks out.
Vote: raerae
Because??
Beeeeecause you killed Glooble so you could push my lynch? Why did you not ask about my reason to vote for you? I need to make a complete list about everything Glooble said D2 to see if your reread checks out.
Also, if I'm scum trying to kill you, I most certainly wouldn't kill the person who agrees with me.
But I voted for you because of the Gloobie fixation. I don’t see it as particularly helpful, and it seems like an attempt to distract from other factors. Plus your conclusion about Gloobie dying was that MiX is bad because Gloobie was almost pushing MiX? Or something, killing someone who is on he fence about you as a player is an odd motivation.
Vote: raerae
Because??
Beeeeecause you killed Glooble so you could push my lynch? Why did you not ask about my reason to vote for you? I need to make a complete list about everything Glooble said D2 to see if your reread checks out.
Also, if I'm scum trying to kill you, I most certainly wouldn't kill the person who agrees with me.
I mean, you would if it’s Shraeye, who you are concerned can read you fairly well.
But I voted for you because of the Gloobie fixation. I don’t see it as particularly helpful, and it seems like an attempt to distract from other factors. Plus your conclusion about Gloobie dying was that MiX is bad because Gloobie was almost pushing MiX? Or something, killing someone who is on he fence about you as a player is an odd motivation.
My statement was saying that you would NK Shraeye on the grounds that he can read you. So whether you thought he was scum or not, or whether he agreed with you on MiX or not.
My statement was saying that you would NK Shraeye on the grounds that he can read you. So whether you thought he was scum or not, or whether he agreed with you on MiX or not.
But if that were my motivation why not kill him N1?
But I voted for you because of the Gloobie fixation. I don’t see it as particularly helpful, and it seems like an attempt to distract from other factors. Plus your conclusion about Gloobie dying was that MiX is bad because Gloobie was almost pushing MiX? Or something, killing someone who is on he fence about you as a player is an odd motivation.
I have to admit, it's a pretty solid case on me. But let it be known that I would probably kill raerae instead of Glooble, just look at the end of D2 and see who was very much pushing me all the way. If someone wanted to frame me for Glooble's death, they would kill raerae and frame me for her death instead...unless raerae's in the scumteam with that idea. This is baseless conjucture but would be fun if true.
I have to admit, it's a pretty solid case on me. But let it be known that I would probably kill raerae instead of Glooble, just look at the end of D2 and see who was very much pushing me all the way. If someone wanted to frame me for Glooble's death, they would kill raerae and frame me for her death instead...unless raerae's in the scumteam with that idea. This is baseless conjucture but would be fun if true.
I don’t see it as a solid case on you at all, the only way it could be seen as solid is if it’s true at this point. Are you saying it’s true? This post is weirding me out, but maybe I just don’t understand.
VOTING FOR DAY 1
#67
raerae (1): mcmcsalot
Not Voting (17): Jimmmmm, UmbrageOfSnow, EFHW, DatSwan, Glooble, WestCoastDidds, SpaceAnemone, Shraeye, MiX, faust, ashersky, 2.71828....., Robz888, Awaclus, Uncleeurope, raerae, Chickenwarlord
#68
raerae (1): mcmcsalot
Robz888 (1): MiX
Not Voting (16): Jimmmmm, UmbrageOfSnow, EFHW, DatSwan, Glooble, WestCoastDidds, SpaceAnemone, Shraeye, faust, ashersky, 2.71828....., Robz888, Awaclus, Uncleeurope, raerae, Chickenwarlord
#69
raerae (1): mcmcsalot
Robz888 (1): MiX
Awaclus (1): Glooble
Not Voting (15): Jimmmmm, UmbrageOfSnow, EFHW, DatSwan, WestCoastDidds, SpaceAnemone, Shraeye, faust, ashersky, 2.71828....., Robz888, Awaclus, Uncleeurope, raerae, Chickenwarlord
#72
raerae (1): mcmcsalot
Robz888 (1): MiX
Awaclus (1): Glooble
EFHW (1): 2.71828.....
Not Voting (14): Jimmmmm, UmbrageOfSnow, EFHW, DatSwan, WestCoastDidds, SpaceAnemone, Shraeye, faust, ashersky, Robz888, Awaclus, Uncleeurope, raerae, Chickenwarlord
#106
raerae (1): mcmcsalot
Robz888 (1): MiX
Awaclus (1): Glooble
EFHW (1): 2.71828.....
2.71828..... (1): faust
Not Voting (13): Jimmmmm, UmbrageOfSnow, EFHW, DatSwan, WestCoastDidds, SpaceAnemone, Shraeye, ashersky, Robz888, Awaclus, Uncleeurope, raerae, Chickenwarlord
#108
raerae (1): mcmcsalot
Robz888 (1): MiX
Awaclus (1): Glooble
2.71828..... (1): faust
faust (1): 2.71828.....
Not Voting (13): Jimmmmm, UmbrageOfSnow, EFHW, DatSwan, WestCoastDidds, SpaceAnemone, Shraeye, ashersky, Robz888, Awaclus, Uncleeurope, raerae, Chickenwarlord
#110
raerae (1): mcmcsalot
Robz888 (1): MiX
Awaclus (1): Glooble
faust (1): 2.71828.....
Uncleeurope (1): faust
Not Voting (13): Jimmmmm, UmbrageOfSnow, EFHW, DatSwan, WestCoastDidds, SpaceAnemone, Shraeye, ashersky, Robz888, Awaclus, Uncleeurope, raerae, Chickenwarlord
#112
raerae (1): mcmcsalot
Robz888 (1): MiX
Awaclus (1): Glooble
faust (1): 2.71828.....
2.71828..... (1): faust
Not Voting (13): Jimmmmm, UmbrageOfSnow, EFHW, DatSwan, WestCoastDidds, SpaceAnemone, Shraeye, ashersky, Robz888, Awaclus, Uncleeurope, raerae, Chickenwarlord
#114
Robz888 (1): MiX
Awaclus (1): Glooble
faust (1): 2.71828.....
2.71828..... (1): faust
Uncleeurope (1): mcmcsalot
Not Voting (13): Jimmmmm, UmbrageOfSnow, EFHW, DatSwan, WestCoastDidds, SpaceAnemone, Shraeye, ashersky, Robz888, Awaclus, Uncleeurope, raerae, Chickenwarlord
#117
Robz888 (1): MiX
Awaclus (1): Glooble
faust (1): 2.71828.....
2.71828..... (1): faust
Uncleeurope (1): mcmcsalot
mcmcsalot (1): raerae
Not Voting (12): Jimmmmm, UmbrageOfSnow, EFHW, DatSwan, WestCoastDidds, SpaceAnemone, Shraeye, ashersky, Robz888, Awaclus, Uncleeurope, Chickenwarlord
#119
Robz888 (1): MiX
Awaclus (1): Glooble
faust (2): 2.71828....., UmbrageOfSnow
2.71828..... (1): faust
Uncleeurope (1): mcmcsalot
mcmcsalot (1): raerae
Not Voting (11): Jimmmmm, EFHW, DatSwan, WestCoastDidds, SpaceAnemone, Shraeye, ashersky, Robz888, Awaclus, Uncleeurope, Chickenwarlord
#120
Robz888 (1): MiX
Awaclus (1): Glooble
faust (2): 2.71828....., UmbrageOfSnow
2.71828..... (1): faust
Uncleeurope (1): mcmcsalot
mcmcsalot (1): raerae
UmbrageOfSnow (1): Uncleeurope
Not Voting (10): Jimmmmm, EFHW, DatSwan, WestCoastDidds, SpaceAnemone, Shraeye, ashersky, Robz888, Awaclus, Chickenwarlord
#128
Robz888 (1): MiX
Awaclus (1): Glooble
faust (2): 2.71828....., UmbrageOfSnow
2.71828..... (1): faust
mcmcsalot (1): raerae
UmbrageOfSnow (1): Uncleeurope
Not Voting (11): Jimmmmm, EFHW, DatSwan, WestCoastDidds, SpaceAnemone, Shraeye, ashersky, Robz888, Awaclus, Chickenwarlord, mcmcsalot
#133
Robz888 (1): MiX
Awaclus (1): Glooble
faust (2): 2.71828....., UmbrageOfSnow
2.71828..... (1): faust
UmbrageOfSnow (1): Uncleeurope
Shraeye (1): raerae
Not Voting (11): Jimmmmm, EFHW, DatSwan, WestCoastDidds, SpaceAnemone, Shraeye, ashersky, Robz888, Awaclus, Chickenwarlord, mcmcsalot
#141
Awaclus (1): Glooble
faust (2): 2.71828....., UmbrageOfSnow
2.71828..... (1): faust
UmbrageOfSnow (1): Uncleeurope
Shraeye (1): raerae
raerae (1): MiX
Not Voting (11): Jimmmmm, EFHW, DatSwan, WestCoastDidds, SpaceAnemone, Shraeye, ashersky, Robz888, Awaclus, Chickenwarlord, mcmcsalot
#148
Awaclus (1): Glooble
faust (2): 2.71828....., UmbrageOfSnow
2.71828..... (2): faust, mcmcsalot
UmbrageOfSnow (1): Uncleeurope
Shraeye (1): raerae
raerae (1): MiX
Not Voting (10): Jimmmmm, EFHW, DatSwan, WestCoastDidds, SpaceAnemone, Shraeye, ashersky, Robz888, Awaclus, Chickenwarlord
#169
Awaclus (1): Glooble
faust (2): 2.71828....., UmbrageOfSnow
2.71828..... (2): faust, mcmcsalot
UmbrageOfSnow (2): Uncleeurope, ashersky
Shraeye (1): raerae
raerae (1): MiX
Not Voting (9): Jimmmmm, EFHW, DatSwan, WestCoastDidds, SpaceAnemone, Shraeye, Robz888, Awaclus, Chickenwarlord
#212
faust (2): 2.71828....., UmbrageOfSnow
2.71828..... (2): faust, mcmcsalot
UmbrageOfSnow (2): Uncleeurope, ashersky
Shraeye (1): raerae
raerae (1): MiX
MiX (1): Glooble
Not Voting (9): Jimmmmm, EFHW, DatSwan, WestCoastDidds, SpaceAnemone, Shraeye, Robz888, Awaclus, Chickenwarlord
#215
faust (2): 2.71828....., UmbrageOfSnow
2.71828..... (2): faust, mcmcsalot
UmbrageOfSnow (2): Uncleeurope, ashersky
Shraeye (2): raerae, Glooble
raerae (1): MiX
Not Voting (9): Jimmmmm, EFHW, DatSwan, WestCoastDidds, SpaceAnemone, Shraeye, Robz888, Awaclus, Chickenwarlord
#259
faust (3): 2.71828....., UmbrageOfSnow, MiX
2.71828..... (2): faust, mcmcsalot
UmbrageOfSnow (2): Uncleeurope, ashersky
Shraeye (2): raerae, Glooble
Not Voting (9): Jimmmmm, EFHW, DatSwan, WestCoastDidds, SpaceAnemone, Shraeye, Robz888, Awaclus, Chickenwarlord
#262
faust (3): 2.71828....., UmbrageOfSnow, MiX
2.71828..... (2): faust, mcmcsalot
UmbrageOfSnow (2): Uncleeurope, ashersky
Shraeye (2): raerae, Glooble
Not Voting (9): Jimmmmm, EFHW, DatSwan, WestCoastDidds, SpaceAnemone, Shraeye, Robz888, Awaclus, Chickenwarlord
#265
faust (3): 2.71828....., UmbrageOfSnow, MiX
UmbrageOfSnow (2): Uncleeurope, ashersky
Shraeye (2): raerae, Glooble
2.71828..... (1): mcmcsalot
Robz888 (1): faust
Not Voting (9): Jimmmmm, EFHW, DatSwan, WestCoastDidds, SpaceAnemone, Shraeye, Robz888, Awaclus, Chickenwarlord
#268
faust (3): 2.71828....., UmbrageOfSnow, MiX
UmbrageOfSnow (2): Uncleeurope, ashersky
Shraeye (2): raerae, Glooble
2.71828..... (2): mcmcsalot, Robz888
Robz888 (1): faust
Not Voting (8): Jimmmmm, EFHW, DatSwan, WestCoastDidds, SpaceAnemone, Shraeye, Awaclus, Chickenwarlord
#284
faust (3): 2.71828....., UmbrageOfSnow, MiX
UmbrageOfSnow (2): Uncleeurope, ashersky
Shraeye (3): raerae, Glooble, Jimmmmm
2.71828..... (2): mcmcsalot, Robz888
Robz888 (1): faust
Not Voting (7): EFHW, DatSwan, WestCoastDidds, SpaceAnemone, Shraeye, Awaclus, Chickenwarlord
#318
faust (2): 2.71828....., UmbrageOfSnow
UmbrageOfSnow (2): Uncleeurope, ashersky
Shraeye (3): raerae, Glooble, Jimmmmm
2.71828..... (2): mcmcsalot, Robz888
Robz888 (1): faust
SpaceAnemone (1): MiX
Not Voting (7): EFHW, DatSwan, WestCoastDidds, SpaceAnemone, Shraeye, Awaclus, Chickenwarlord
#322
faust (2): 2.71828....., UmbrageOfSnow
UmbrageOfSnow (2): Uncleeurope, ashersky
Shraeye (3): raerae, Glooble, Jimmmmm
2.71828..... (2): mcmcsalot, Robz888
Robz888 (1): faust
SpaceAnemone (1): MiX
MiX (1): SpaceAnemone
Not Voting (6): EFHW, DatSwan, WestCoastDidds, Shraeye, Awaclus, Chickenwarlord
#325
faust (2): 2.71828....., UmbrageOfSnow
UmbrageOfSnow (1): Uncleeurope
Shraeye (3): raerae, Glooble, Jimmmmm
2.71828..... (2): mcmcsalot, Robz888
Robz888 (1): faust
SpaceAnemone (1): MiX
MiX (1): SpaceAnemone
Chickenwarlord (1): ashersky
Not Voting (6): EFHW, DatSwan, WestCoastDidds, Shraeye, Awaclus, Chickenwarlord
#333
faust (2): 2.71828....., UmbrageOfSnow
UmbrageOfSnow (1): Uncleeurope
Shraeye (2): raerae, Jimmmmm
2.71828..... (2): mcmcsalot, Robz888
Robz888 (1): faust
SpaceAnemone (1): MiX
MiX (1): SpaceAnemone
Chickenwarlord (1): ashersky
Jimmmmm (1): Glooble
Not Voting (6): EFHW, DatSwan, WestCoastDidds, Shraeye, Awaclus, Chickenwarlord
#344
faust (2): 2.71828....., UmbrageOfSnow
UmbrageOfSnow (1): Uncleeurope
Shraeye (2): raerae, Jimmmmm
2.71828..... (2): mcmcsalot, Robz888
Robz888 (1): faust
SpaceAnemone (1): MiX
MiX (1): SpaceAnemone
Chickenwarlord (1): ashersky
Jimmmmm (1): Glooble
EFHW (1): WestCoastDidds
Not Voting (5): EFHW, DatSwan, Shraeye, Awaclus, Chickenwarlord
#353
faust (2): 2.71828....., UmbrageOfSnow
UmbrageOfSnow (1): Uncleeurope
Shraeye (2): raerae, Jimmmmm
2.71828..... (2): mcmcsalot, Robz888
Robz888 (1): faust
MiX (1): SpaceAnemone
Chickenwarlord (1): ashersky
Jimmmmm (2): Glooble, MiX
EFHW (1): WestCoastDidds
Not Voting (5): EFHW, DatSwan, Shraeye, Awaclus, Chickenwarlord
#361
faust (2): 2.71828....., UmbrageOfSnow
UmbrageOfSnow (1): Uncleeurope
Shraeye (2): raerae, Jimmmmm
2.71828..... (1): mcmcsalot
Robz888 (1): faust
MiX (1): SpaceAnemone
Chickenwarlord (2): ashersky, Robz888
Jimmmmm (2): Glooble, MiX
EFHW (1): WestCoastDidds
Not Voting (5): EFHW, DatSwan, Shraeye, Awaclus, Chickenwarlord
#362
faust (2): 2.71828....., UmbrageOfSnow
Shraeye (2): raerae, Jimmmmm
2.71828..... (1): mcmcsalot
Robz888 (1): faust
MiX (1): SpaceAnemone
Chickenwarlord (2): ashersky, Robz888
Jimmmmm (2): Glooble, MiX
EFHW (1): WestCoastDidds
Awaclus (1): Uncleeurope
Not Voting (5): EFHW, DatSwan, Shraeye, Awaclus, Chickenwarlord
#377
faust (2): 2.71828....., UmbrageOfSnow
Shraeye (2): raerae, Jimmmmm
2.71828..... (1): mcmcsalot
Robz888 (1): faust
MiX (1): SpaceAnemone
Chickenwarlord (3): ashersky, Robz888, DatSwan
Jimmmmm (2): Glooble, MiX
EFHW (1): WestCoastDidds
Awaclus (1): Uncleeurope
Not Voting (4): EFHW, Shraeye, Awaclus, Chickenwarlord
#384
faust (2): 2.71828....., UmbrageOfSnow
Shraeye (2): raerae, Jimmmmm
2.71828..... (1): mcmcsalot
Robz888 (1): faust
MiX (1): SpaceAnemone
Chickenwarlord (3): ashersky, Robz888, DatSwan
Jimmmmm (2): Glooble, MiX
EFHW (1): WestCoastDidds
Awaclus (1): Uncleeurope
No Lynch (1): Chickenwarlord
Not Voting (3): EFHW, Shraeye, Awaclus
#391
faust (2): 2.71828....., UmbrageOfSnow
Shraeye (2): raerae, Jimmmmm
2.71828..... (2): mcmcsalot, EFHW
Robz888 (1): faust
MiX (1): SpaceAnemone
Chickenwarlord (3): ashersky, Robz888, DatSwan
Jimmmmm (2): Glooble, MiX
EFHW (1): WestCoastDidds
Awaclus (1): Uncleeurope
No Lynch (1): Chickenwarlord
Not Voting (2): Shraeye, Awaclus
#402
faust (2): 2.71828....., UmbrageOfSnow
Shraeye (2): raerae, Jimmmmm
2.71828..... (3): mcmcsalot, EFHW, Robz888
Robz888 (1): faust
MiX (1): SpaceAnemone
Chickenwarlord (2): ashersky, DatSwan
Jimmmmm (2): Glooble, MiX
EFHW (1): WestCoastDidds
Awaclus (1): Uncleeurope
No Lynch (1): Chickenwarlord
Not Voting (2): Shraeye, Awaclus
#432
faust (2): 2.71828....., UmbrageOfSnow
Shraeye (2): raerae, Jimmmmm
2.71828..... (3): mcmcsalot, EFHW, Robz888
Robz888 (1): faust
MiX (1): SpaceAnemone
Chickenwarlord (2): ashersky, DatSwan
Jimmmmm (1): Glooble
EFHW (1): WestCoastDidds
Awaclus (1): Uncleeurope
WestCoastDidds (1): MiX
No Lynch (1): Chickenwarlord
Not Voting (2): Shraeye, Awaclus
#448
faust (1): UmbrageOfSnow
Shraeye (2): raerae, Jimmmmm
2.71828..... (3): mcmcsalot, EFHW, Robz888
Robz888 (1): faust
MiX (1): SpaceAnemone
Chickenwarlord (2): ashersky, DatSwan
Jimmmmm (1): Glooble
EFHW (1): WestCoastDidds
Awaclus (1): Uncleeurope
WestCoastDidds (1): MiX
DatSwan (1): 2.71828.....
No Lynch (1): Chickenwarlord
Not Voting (2): Shraeye, Awaclus
#455
faust (1): UmbrageOfSnow
Shraeye (2): raerae, Jimmmmm
2.71828..... (3): mcmcsalot, EFHW, Robz888
MiX (1): SpaceAnemone
Chickenwarlord (2): ashersky, DatSwan
Jimmmmm (2): Glooble, faust
EFHW (1): WestCoastDidds
Awaclus (1): Uncleeurope
WestCoastDidds (1): MiX
DatSwan (1): 2.71828.....
No Lynch (1): Chickenwarlord
Not Voting (2): Shraeye, Awaclus
#457
faust (1): UmbrageOfSnow
Shraeye (2): raerae, Jimmmmm
2.71828..... (3): mcmcsalot, EFHW, Robz888
MiX (1): SpaceAnemone
Chickenwarlord (2): ashersky, DatSwan
Jimmmmm (3): Glooble, faust, MiX
EFHW (1): WestCoastDidds
Awaclus (1): Uncleeurope
DatSwan (1): 2.71828.....
No Lynch (1): Chickenwarlord
Not Voting (2): Shraeye, Awaclus
#462
faust (1): UmbrageOfSnow
Shraeye (2): raerae, Jimmmmm
2.71828..... (3): mcmcsalot, EFHW, Robz888
MiX (1): SpaceAnemone
Jimmmmm (3): Glooble, faust, MiX
EFHW (1): WestCoastDidds
Awaclus (2): Uncleeurope, ashersky
Chickenwarlord (1): DatSwan
DatSwan (1): 2.71828.....
No Lynch (1): Chickenwarlord
Not Voting (2): Shraeye, Awaclus
#463
faust (1): UmbrageOfSnow
Shraeye (2): raerae, Jimmmmm
2.71828..... (3): mcmcsalot, EFHW, Robz888
MiX (1): SpaceAnemone
Jimmmmm (3): Glooble, faust, MiX
EFHW (1): WestCoastDidds
Awaclus (2): Uncleeurope, ashersky
Chickenwarlord (1): DatSwan
DatSwan (1): 2.71828.....
ashersky (1): Awaclus
No Lynch (1): Chickenwarlord
Not Voting (1): Shraeye
#473
faust (1): UmbrageOfSnow
Shraeye (2): raerae, Jimmmmm
2.71828..... (4): mcmcsalot, EFHW, Robz888, Awaclus
MiX (1): SpaceAnemone
Jimmmmm (3): Glooble, faust, MiX
EFHW (1): WestCoastDidds
Awaclus (2): Uncleeurope, ashersky
Chickenwarlord (1): DatSwan
DatSwan (1): 2.71828.....
No Lynch (1): Chickenwarlord
Not Voting (1): Shraeye
#482
faust (1): UmbrageOfSnow
Shraeye (2): raerae, Jimmmmm
2.71828..... (5): mcmcsalot, EFHW, Robz888, Awaclus, WestCoastDidds
MiX (1): SpaceAnemone
Jimmmmm (3): Glooble, faust, MiX
Awaclus (2): Uncleeurope, ashersky
Chickenwarlord (1): DatSwan
DatSwan (1): 2.71828.....
No Lynch (1): Chickenwarlord
Not Voting (1): Shraeye
#506
faust (1): UmbrageOfSnow
Shraeye (2): raerae, Jimmmmm
2.71828..... (5): mcmcsalot, EFHW, Robz888, Awaclus, WestCoastDidds
MiX (1): SpaceAnemone
Jimmmmm (3): Glooble, faust, MiX
Awaclus (2): Uncleeurope, ashersky
Chickenwarlord (1): DatSwan
DatSwan (1): 2.71828.....
Glooble (1): Shraeye
No Lynch (1): Chickenwarlord
#515
faust (1): UmbrageOfSnow
Shraeye (2): raerae, Jimmmmm
2.71828..... (5): mcmcsalot, EFHW, Robz888, Awaclus, WestCoastDidds
MiX (1): SpaceAnemone
Jimmmmm (3): Glooble, faust, MiX
Chickenwarlord (1): DatSwan
DatSwan (1): 2.71828.....
Awaclus (1): ashersky
Glooble (1): Shraeye
No Lynch (1): Chickenwarlord
Not Voting (1): Uncleeurope
#517
faust (1): UmbrageOfSnow
Shraeye (2): raerae, Jimmmmm
2.71828..... (5): mcmcsalot, EFHW, Robz888, Awaclus, WestCoastDidds
MiX (1): SpaceAnemone
Jimmmmm (3): Glooble, faust, MiX
Chickenwarlord (1): DatSwan
DatSwan (1): 2.71828.....
Awaclus (1): ashersky
Glooble (2): Shraeye, Uncleeurope
No Lynch (1): Chickenwarlord
#537
faust (1): UmbrageOfSnow
Shraeye (2): raerae, Jimmmmm
2.71828..... (5): mcmcsalot, EFHW, Robz888, Awaclus, WestCoastDidds
MiX (1): SpaceAnemone
Jimmmmm (3): Glooble, faust, MiX
Chickenwarlord (1): DatSwan
Awaclus (1): ashersky
Glooble (2): Shraeye, Uncleeurope
Robz888 (1): 2.71828.....
No Lynch (1): Chickenwarlord
#543
faust (1): UmbrageOfSnow
Shraeye (2): raerae, Jimmmmm
2.71828..... (5): mcmcsalot, EFHW, Robz888, Awaclus, WestCoastDidds
MiX (1): SpaceAnemone
Jimmmmm (3): Glooble, faust, MiX
Chickenwarlord (1): DatSwan
Awaclus (1): ashersky
Glooble (1): Shraeye
Robz888 (2): 2.71828....., Uncleeurope
No Lynch (1): Chickenwarlord
#550
faust (1): UmbrageOfSnow
Shraeye (2): raerae, Jimmmmm
2.71828..... (5): mcmcsalot, EFHW, Robz888, Awaclus, WestCoastDidds
MiX (1): SpaceAnemone
Jimmmmm (2): Glooble, faust
Chickenwarlord (1): DatSwan
Awaclus (1): ashersky
Glooble (1): Shraeye
Robz888 (2): 2.71828....., Uncleeurope
SpaceAnemone (1): MiX
No Lynch (1): Chickenwarlord
#561
faust (1): UmbrageOfSnow
Shraeye (2): raerae, Jimmmmm
2.71828..... (4): mcmcsalot, EFHW, Robz888, Awaclus
MiX (2): SpaceAnemone, WestCoastDidds
Jimmmmm (2): Glooble, faust
Chickenwarlord (1): DatSwan
Awaclus (1): ashersky
Glooble (1): Shraeye
Robz888 (2): 2.71828....., Uncleeurope
SpaceAnemone (1): MiX
No Lynch (1): Chickenwarlord
#606
faust (1): UmbrageOfSnow
Shraeye (2): raerae, Jimmmmm
2.71828..... (4): mcmcsalot, EFHW, Robz888, Awaclus
MiX (1): SpaceAnemone
Jimmmmm (2): Glooble, faust
Chickenwarlord (1): DatSwan
Awaclus (1): ashersky
Glooble (1): Shraeye
Robz888 (3): 2.71828....., Uncleeurope, WestCoastDidds
SpaceAnemone (1): MiX
No Lynch (1): Chickenwarlord
#620
faust (1): UmbrageOfSnow
Shraeye (2): raerae, Jimmmmm
2.71828..... (4): mcmcsalot, EFHW, Robz888, Awaclus
MiX (1): SpaceAnemone
Jimmmmm (2): Glooble, faust
Chickenwarlord (1): DatSwan
Awaclus (1): ashersky
Robz888 (3): 2.71828....., Uncleeurope, WestCoastDidds
SpaceAnemone (1): MiX
ashersky (1): Shraeye
No Lynch (1): Chickenwarlord
#641
faust (1): UmbrageOfSnow
Shraeye (2): raerae, Jimmmmm
2.71828..... (4): mcmcsalot, EFHW, Robz888, Awaclus
MiX (1): SpaceAnemone
Jimmmmm (2): Glooble, faust
Chickenwarlord (1): DatSwan
Robz888 (3): 2.71828....., Uncleeurope, WestCoastDidds
SpaceAnemone (1): MiX
ashersky (1): Shraeye
raerae (1): ashersky
No Lynch (1): Chickenwarlord
#643
faust (1): UmbrageOfSnow
Shraeye (2): raerae, Jimmmmm
MiX (1): SpaceAnemone
Jimmmmm (2): Glooble, faust
Chickenwarlord (1): DatSwan
2.71828..... (3): EFHW, Robz888, Awaclus
Robz888 (3): 2.71828....., Uncleeurope, WestCoastDidds
SpaceAnemone (1): MiX
ashersky (1): Shraeye
raerae (2): ashersky, mcmcsalot
No Lynch (1): Chickenwarlord
#644
faust (1): UmbrageOfSnow
Shraeye (1): Jimmmmm
MiX (1): SpaceAnemone
Jimmmmm (2): Glooble, faust
Chickenwarlord (1): DatSwan
2.71828..... (3): EFHW, Robz888, Awaclus
Robz888 (3): 2.71828....., Uncleeurope, WestCoastDidds
SpaceAnemone (1): MiX
ashersky (2): Shraeye, raerae
raerae (2): ashersky, mcmcsalot
No Lynch (1): Chickenwarlord
#653
faust (1): UmbrageOfSnow
Shraeye (1): Jimmmmm
MiX (1): SpaceAnemone
Jimmmmm (3): Glooble, faust, MiX
Chickenwarlord (1): DatSwan
2.71828..... (3): EFHW, Robz888, Awaclus
Robz888 (3): 2.71828....., Uncleeurope, WestCoastDidds
ashersky (2): Shraeye, raerae
raerae (2): ashersky, mcmcsalot
No Lynch (1): Chickenwarlord
#674
faust (1): UmbrageOfSnow
Shraeye (1): Jimmmmm
MiX (1): SpaceAnemone
Jimmmmm (3): Glooble, faust, MiX
Chickenwarlord (1): DatSwan
2.71828..... (3): EFHW, Robz888, Awaclus
Robz888 (2): 2.71828....., WestCoastDidds
ashersky (2): Shraeye, raerae
raerae (2): ashersky, mcmcsalot
EFHW (1): Uncleeurope
No Lynch (1): Chickenwarlord
#678
faust (1): UmbrageOfSnow
Shraeye (1): Jimmmmm
MiX (1): SpaceAnemone
Jimmmmm (2): Glooble, faust
Chickenwarlord (1): DatSwan
2.71828..... (3): EFHW, Robz888, Awaclus
Robz888 (2): 2.71828....., WestCoastDidds
ashersky (2): Shraeye, raerae
raerae (2): ashersky, mcmcsalot
EFHW (2): Uncleeurope, MiX
No Lynch (1): Chickenwarlord
#708
faust (1): UmbrageOfSnow
Shraeye (1): Jimmmmm
MiX (1): SpaceAnemone
Jimmmmm (2): Glooble, faust
Chickenwarlord (1): DatSwan
2.71828..... (3): EFHW, Robz888, Awaclus
Robz888 (2): 2.71828....., WestCoastDidds
ashersky (2): Shraeye, raerae
raerae (2): ashersky, mcmcsalot
EFHW (2): Uncleeurope, MiX
No Lynch (1): Chickenwarlord
#719
faust (1): UmbrageOfSnow
Shraeye (1): Jimmmmm
MiX (1): SpaceAnemone
Jimmmmm (2): Glooble, faust
Chickenwarlord (1): DatSwan
2.71828..... (3): EFHW, Robz888, Awaclus
Robz888 (1): 2.71828.....
ashersky (2): Shraeye, raerae
raerae (2): ashersky, mcmcsalot
EFHW (3): Uncleeurope, MiX, WestCoastDidds
No Lynch (1): Chickenwarlord
#735
Shraeye (1): Jimmmmm
MiX (1): SpaceAnemone
Jimmmmm (2): Glooble, faust
Chickenwarlord (1): DatSwan
2.71828..... (3): EFHW, Robz888, Awaclus
Robz888 (1): 2.71828.....
ashersky (2): Shraeye, raerae
raerae (2): ashersky, mcmcsalot
EFHW (4): Uncleeurope, MiX, WestCoastDidds, UmbrageOfSnow
No Lynch (1): Chickenwarlord
#737
Shraeye (1): Jimmmmm
MiX (1): SpaceAnemone
Jimmmmm (2): Glooble, faust
Chickenwarlord (1): DatSwan
2.71828..... (3): EFHW, Robz888, Awaclus
Robz888 (1): 2.71828.....
raerae (2): ashersky, mcmcsalot
ashersky (1): raerae
EFHW (5): Uncleeurope, MiX, WestCoastDidds, UmbrageOfSnow, Shraeye
No Lynch (1): Chickenwarlord
#750
Shraeye (1): Jimmmmm
MiX (1): SpaceAnemone
Jimmmmm (2): Glooble, faust
Chickenwarlord (1): DatSwan
2.71828..... (3): EFHW, Robz888, Awaclus
Robz888 (1): 2.71828.....
raerae (2): ashersky, mcmcsalot
ashersky (1): raerae
EFHW (4): Uncleeurope, MiX, WestCoastDidds, UmbrageOfSnow
No Lynch (1): Chickenwarlord
Not Voting (1): Shraeye
#751
Shraeye (1): Jimmmmm
MiX (1): SpaceAnemone
Jimmmmm (2): Glooble, faust
Chickenwarlord (1): DatSwan
2.71828..... (3): EFHW, Robz888, Awaclus
Robz888 (1): 2.71828.....
raerae (2): ashersky, mcmcsalot
ashersky (1): raerae
EFHW (5): Uncleeurope, MiX, WestCoastDidds, UmbrageOfSnow, Shraeye
No Lynch (1): Chickenwarlord
#759
Shraeye (1): Jimmmmm
MiX (1): SpaceAnemone
Chickenwarlord (1): DatSwan
2.71828..... (3): EFHW, Robz888, Awaclus
Jimmmmm (1): faust
Robz888 (1): 2.71828.....
raerae (2): ashersky, mcmcsalot
ashersky (1): raerae
EFHW (6): Uncleeurope, MiX, WestCoastDidds, UmbrageOfSnow, Shraeye, Glooble
No Lynch (1): Chickenwarlord
#772
Shraeye (1): Jimmmmm
MiX (1): SpaceAnemone
Chickenwarlord (1): DatSwan
2.71828..... (3): EFHW, Robz888, Awaclus
Jimmmmm (2): faust, Uncleeurope
Robz888 (1): 2.71828.....
raerae (2): ashersky, mcmcsalot
ashersky (1): raerae
EFHW (5): MiX, WestCoastDidds, UmbrageOfSnow, Shraeye, Glooble
No Lynch (1): Chickenwarlord
#773
Shraeye (1): Jimmmmm
MiX (1): SpaceAnemone
Chickenwarlord (1): DatSwan
2.71828..... (3): EFHW, Robz888, Awaclus
Jimmmmm (3): faust, Uncleeurope, raerae
Robz888 (1): 2.71828.....
raerae (2): ashersky, mcmcsalot
EFHW (5): MiX, WestCoastDidds, UmbrageOfSnow, Shraeye, Glooble
No Lynch (1): Chickenwarlord
#781
Shraeye (1): Jimmmmm
MiX (1): SpaceAnemone
Chickenwarlord (1): DatSwan
2.71828..... (2): EFHW, Awaclus
Jimmmmm (3): faust, Uncleeurope, raerae
Robz888 (1): 2.71828.....
raerae (2): ashersky, mcmcsalot
EFHW (6): MiX, WestCoastDidds, UmbrageOfSnow, Shraeye, Glooble, Robz888
No Lynch (1): Chickenwarlord
#791
Shraeye (1): Jimmmmm
MiX (1): SpaceAnemone
Chickenwarlord (1): DatSwan
2.71828..... (2): EFHW, Awaclus
Jimmmmm (3): faust, Uncleeurope, raerae
Robz888 (2): 2.71828....., WestCoastDidds
raerae (2): ashersky, mcmcsalot
EFHW (5): MiX, UmbrageOfSnow, Shraeye, Glooble, Robz888
No Lynch (1): Chickenwarlord
#797
Shraeye (1): Jimmmmm
MiX (1): SpaceAnemone
Chickenwarlord (1): DatSwan
2.71828..... (2): EFHW, Awaclus
Jimmmmm (3): faust, Uncleeurope, raerae
Robz888 (3): 2.71828....., WestCoastDidds, UmbrageOfSnow
raerae (2): ashersky, mcmcsalot
EFHW (4): MiX, Shraeye, Glooble, Robz888
No Lynch (1): Chickenwarlord
#805
Shraeye (1): Jimmmmm
MiX (1): SpaceAnemone
Chickenwarlord (1): DatSwan
2.71828..... (2): EFHW, Awaclus
Jimmmmm (2): faust, raerae
Robz888 (4): 2.71828....., WestCoastDidds, UmbrageOfSnow, Uncleeurope
raerae (2): ashersky, mcmcsalot
EFHW (4): MiX, Shraeye, Glooble, Robz888
No Lynch (1): Chickenwarlord
#823
Shraeye (1): Jimmmmm
Chickenwarlord (1): DatSwan
2.71828..... (2): EFHW, Awaclus
Jimmmmm (2): faust, raerae
Robz888 (5): 2.71828....., WestCoastDidds, UmbrageOfSnow, Uncleeurope, SpaceAnemone
raerae (2): ashersky, mcmcsalot
EFHW (4): MiX, Shraeye, Glooble, Robz888
No Lynch (1): Chickenwarlord
#827
Shraeye (1): Jimmmmm
Chickenwarlord (1): DatSwan
2.71828..... (2): EFHW, Awaclus
Jimmmmm (2): faust, raerae
Robz888 (6): 2.71828....., WestCoastDidds, UmbrageOfSnow, Uncleeurope, SpaceAnemone, Chickenwarlord
raerae (2): ashersky, mcmcsalot
EFHW (4): MiX, Shraeye, Glooble, Robz888
#828
Shraeye (1): Jimmmmm
Chickenwarlord (1): DatSwan
2.71828..... (2): EFHW, Awaclus
Jimmmmm (3): faust, raerae, Uncleeurope
Robz888 (5): 2.71828....., WestCoastDidds, UmbrageOfSnow, SpaceAnemone, Chickenwarlord
raerae (2): ashersky, mcmcsalot
EFHW (4): MiX, Shraeye, Glooble, Robz888
#834
Shraeye (1): Jimmmmm
Chickenwarlord (1): DatSwan
2.71828..... (2): EFHW, Awaclus
Robz888 (5): 2.71828....., WestCoastDidds, UmbrageOfSnow, SpaceAnemone, Chickenwarlord
raerae (2): ashersky, mcmcsalot
EFHW (4): MiX, Shraeye, Glooble, Robz888
Jimmmmm (2): raerae, Uncleeurope
SpaceAnemone (1): faust
#835
Shraeye (1): Jimmmmm
Chickenwarlord (1): DatSwan
2.71828..... (2): EFHW, Awaclus
Robz888 (5): 2.71828....., WestCoastDidds, UmbrageOfSnow, SpaceAnemone, Chickenwarlord
raerae (2): ashersky, mcmcsalot
EFHW (4): MiX, Shraeye, Glooble, Robz888
Jimmmmm (1): raerae
SpaceAnemone (2): faust, Uncleeurope
#836
Shraeye (1): Jimmmmm
2.71828..... (2): EFHW, Awaclus
Robz888 (6): 2.71828....., WestCoastDidds, UmbrageOfSnow, SpaceAnemone, Chickenwarlord, DatSwan
raerae (2): ashersky, mcmcsalot
EFHW (4): MiX, Shraeye, Glooble, Robz888
Jimmmmm (1): raerae
SpaceAnemone (2): faust, Uncleeurope
#838
Shraeye (1): Jimmmmm
2.71828..... (2): EFHW, Awaclus
Robz888 (6): 2.71828....., WestCoastDidds, UmbrageOfSnow, SpaceAnemone, Chickenwarlord, DatSwan
raerae (2): ashersky, mcmcsalot
EFHW (3): Shraeye, Glooble, Robz888
Jimmmmm (1): raerae
SpaceAnemone (3): faust, Uncleeurope, MiX
#844
Shraeye (1): Jimmmmm
2.71828..... (1): EFHW
Robz888 (7): 2.71828....., WestCoastDidds, UmbrageOfSnow, SpaceAnemone, Chickenwarlord, DatSwan, Awaclus
raerae (2): ashersky, mcmcsalot
EFHW (3): Shraeye, Glooble, Robz888
Jimmmmm (1): raerae
SpaceAnemone (3): faust, Uncleeurope, MiX
#846
Shraeye (1): Jimmmmm
2.71828..... (1): EFHW
Robz888 (8): 2.71828....., WestCoastDidds, UmbrageOfSnow, SpaceAnemone, Chickenwarlord, DatSwan, Awaclus, Glooble
raerae (2): ashersky, mcmcsalot
EFHW (2): Shraeye, Robz888
Jimmmmm (1): raerae
SpaceAnemone (3): faust, Uncleeurope, MiX
#848
2.71828..... (1): EFHW
Robz888 (9): 2.71828....., WestCoastDidds, UmbrageOfSnow, SpaceAnemone, Chickenwarlord, DatSwan, Awaclus, Glooble, Jimmmmm
raerae (2): ashersky, mcmcsalot
EFHW (2): Shraeye, Robz888
Jimmmmm (1): raerae
SpaceAnemone (3): faust, Uncleeurope, MiX
#867
2.71828..... (1): EFHW
Robz888 (10): 2.71828....., WestCoastDidds, UmbrageOfSnow, SpaceAnemone, Chickenwarlord, DatSwan, Awaclus, Glooble, Jimmmmm, ashersky
raerae (1): mcmcsalot
EFHW (2): Shraeye, Robz888
Jimmmmm (1): raerae
SpaceAnemone (3): faust, Uncleeurope, MiX
VOTING FOR DAY 2
#890
SpaceAnemone (1): MiX
Not Voting (14): UmbrageOfSnow, EFHW, DatSwan, Glooble, WestCoastDidds, SpaceAnemone, Shraeye, faust, ashersky, 2.71828....., Awaclus, Uncleeurope, raerae, Chickenwarlord
#893
SpaceAnemone (1): MiX
Uncleeurope (1): WestCoastDidds
Not Voting (13): UmbrageOfSnow, EFHW, DatSwan, Glooble, SpaceAnemone, Shraeye, faust, ashersky, 2.71828....., Awaclus, Uncleeurope, raerae, Chickenwarlord
#897
SpaceAnemone (2): MiX, Uncleeurope
Uncleeurope (1): WestCoastDidds
Not Voting (12): UmbrageOfSnow, EFHW, DatSwan, Glooble, SpaceAnemone, Shraeye, faust, ashersky, 2.71828....., Awaclus, raerae, Chickenwarlord
#910
Uncleeurope (1): WestCoastDidds
SpaceAnemone (1): Uncleeurope
raerae (1): MiX
Not Voting (12): UmbrageOfSnow, EFHW, DatSwan, Glooble, SpaceAnemone, Shraeye, faust, ashersky, 2.71828....., Awaclus, raerae, Chickenwarlord
#919
Uncleeurope (1): WestCoastDidds
SpaceAnemone (1): Uncleeurope
raerae (1): MiX
MiX (1): raerae
Not Voting (11): UmbrageOfSnow, EFHW, DatSwan, Glooble, SpaceAnemone, Shraeye, faust, ashersky, 2.71828....., Awaclus, Chickenwarlord
#935
Uncleeurope (1): WestCoastDidds
SpaceAnemone (1): Uncleeurope
raerae (1): MiX
MiX (2): raerae, Shraeye
Not Voting (10): UmbrageOfSnow, EFHW, DatSwan, Glooble, SpaceAnemone, faust, ashersky, 2.71828....., Awaclus, Chickenwarlord
#936
Uncleeurope (1): WestCoastDidds
SpaceAnemone (1): Uncleeurope
raerae (1): MiX
MiX (2): raerae, Shraeye
Awaclus (1): faust
Not Voting (9): UmbrageOfSnow, EFHW, DatSwan, Glooble, SpaceAnemone, ashersky, 2.71828....., Awaclus, Chickenwarlord
#971
Uncleeurope (1): WestCoastDidds
SpaceAnemone (1): Uncleeurope
MiX (2): raerae, Shraeye
Awaclus (1): faust
Not Voting (10): UmbrageOfSnow, EFHW, DatSwan, Glooble, SpaceAnemone, ashersky, 2.71828....., Awaclus, Chickenwarlord, MiX
#972
SpaceAnemone (1): Uncleeurope
MiX (2): raerae, Shraeye
Awaclus (2): faust, WestCoastDidds
Not Voting (10): UmbrageOfSnow, EFHW, DatSwan, Glooble, SpaceAnemone, ashersky, 2.71828....., Awaclus, Chickenwarlord, MiX
#977
MiX (2): raerae, Shraeye
Awaclus (3): faust, WestCoastDidds, Uncleeurope
Not Voting (10): UmbrageOfSnow, EFHW, DatSwan, Glooble, SpaceAnemone, ashersky, 2.71828....., Awaclus, Chickenwarlord, MiX
#978
MiX (2): raerae, Shraeye
Awaclus (3): faust, WestCoastDidds, Uncleeurope
faust (1): UmbrageOfSnow
Not Voting (9): EFHW, DatSwan, Glooble, SpaceAnemone, ashersky, 2.71828....., Awaclus, Chickenwarlord, MiX
#983
MiX (3): raerae, Shraeye, Awaclus
Awaclus (3): faust, WestCoastDidds, Uncleeurope
faust (1): UmbrageOfSnow
Not Voting (8): EFHW, DatSwan, Glooble, SpaceAnemone, ashersky, 2.71828....., Chickenwarlord, MiX
#984
MiX (3): raerae, Shraeye, Awaclus
Awaclus (3): faust, WestCoastDidds, Uncleeurope
faust (1): UmbrageOfSnow
DatSwan (1): MiX
Not Voting (7): EFHW, DatSwan, Glooble, SpaceAnemone, ashersky, 2.71828....., Chickenwarlord
#1001
MiX (3): raerae, Shraeye, Awaclus
Awaclus (2): faust, WestCoastDidds
faust (1): UmbrageOfSnow
DatSwan (1): MiX
UmbrageOfSnow (1): Uncleeurope
Not Voting (7): EFHW, DatSwan, Glooble, SpaceAnemone, ashersky, 2.71828....., Chickenwarlord
#1015
MiX (4): raerae, Shraeye, Awaclus, Glooble
Awaclus (2): faust, WestCoastDidds
faust (1): UmbrageOfSnow
DatSwan (1): MiX
UmbrageOfSnow (1): Uncleeurope
Not Voting (6): EFHW, DatSwan, SpaceAnemone, ashersky, 2.71828....., Chickenwarlord
#1027
MiX (4): raerae, Shraeye, Awaclus, Glooble
Awaclus (3): faust, WestCoastDidds, Uncleeurope
faust (1): UmbrageOfSnow
DatSwan (1): MiX
Not Voting (6): EFHW, DatSwan, SpaceAnemone, ashersky, 2.71828....., Chickenwarlord
#1037
MiX (4): raerae, Shraeye, Awaclus, Glooble
Awaclus (3): faust, WestCoastDidds, Uncleeurope
faust (1): UmbrageOfSnow
DatSwan (1): MiX
Uncleeurope (1): DatSwan
Not Voting (5): EFHW, SpaceAnemone, ashersky, 2.71828....., Chickenwarlord
#1052
MiX (4): raerae, Shraeye, Awaclus, Glooble
Awaclus (3): faust, WestCoastDidds, Uncleeurope
faust (1): UmbrageOfSnow
Uncleeurope (2): DatSwan, MiX
Not Voting (5): EFHW, SpaceAnemone, ashersky, 2.71828....., Chickenwarlord
#1060
MiX (4): raerae, Shraeye, Awaclus, Glooble
Awaclus (3): faust, WestCoastDidds, Uncleeurope
faust (1): UmbrageOfSnow
Uncleeurope (1): DatSwan
DatSwan (1): MiX
Not Voting (5): EFHW, SpaceAnemone, ashersky, 2.71828....., Chickenwarlord
#1086
MiX (4): raerae, Shraeye, Awaclus, Glooble
Awaclus (3): faust, WestCoastDidds, Uncleeurope
faust (1): UmbrageOfSnow
DatSwan (1): MiX
Not Voting (6): EFHW, SpaceAnemone, ashersky, 2.71828....., Chickenwarlord, DatSwan
#1091
MiX (3): raerae, Awaclus, Glooble
Awaclus (4): faust, WestCoastDidds, Uncleeurope, Shraeye
faust (1): UmbrageOfSnow
DatSwan (1): MiX
Not Voting (6): EFHW, SpaceAnemone, ashersky, 2.71828....., Chickenwarlord, DatSwan
#1098
MiX (3): raerae, Awaclus, Glooble
Awaclus (4): faust, WestCoastDidds, Uncleeurope, Shraeye
faust (2): UmbrageOfSnow, ashersky
DatSwan (1): MiX
Not Voting (5): EFHW, SpaceAnemone, 2.71828....., Chickenwarlord, DatSwan
#1126
MiX (2): raerae, Awaclus
Awaclus (5): faust, WestCoastDidds, Uncleeurope, Shraeye, Glooble
faust (2): UmbrageOfSnow, ashersky
DatSwan (1): MiX
Not Voting (5): EFHW, SpaceAnemone, 2.71828....., Chickenwarlord, DatSwan
#1148
MiX (3): raerae, Awaclus, Chickenwarlord
Awaclus (5): faust, WestCoastDidds, Uncleeurope, Shraeye, Glooble
faust (2): UmbrageOfSnow, ashersky
DatSwan (1): MiX
Not Voting (4): EFHW, SpaceAnemone, 2.71828....., DatSwan
#1167
MiX (4): raerae, Awaclus, Chickenwarlord, Uncleeurope
Awaclus (4): faust, WestCoastDidds, Shraeye, Glooble
faust (2): UmbrageOfSnow, ashersky
DatSwan (1): MiX
Not Voting (4): EFHW, SpaceAnemone, 2.71828....., DatSwan
#1187
MiX (3): raerae, Awaclus, Chickenwarlord
Awaclus (4): faust, WestCoastDidds, Shraeye, Glooble
faust (2): UmbrageOfSnow, ashersky
DatSwan (1): MiX
Chickenwarlord (1): Uncleeurope
Not Voting (4): EFHW, SpaceAnemone, 2.71828....., DatSwan
#1195
MiX (4): raerae, Awaclus, Chickenwarlord, ashersky
Awaclus (4): faust, WestCoastDidds, Shraeye, Glooble
faust (1): UmbrageOfSnow
DatSwan (1): MiX
Chickenwarlord (1): Uncleeurope
Not Voting (4): EFHW, SpaceAnemone, 2.71828....., DatSwan
#1198
MiX (5): raerae, Awaclus, Chickenwarlord, ashersky, UmbrageOfSnow
Awaclus (4): faust, WestCoastDidds, Shraeye, Glooble
DatSwan (1): MiX
Chickenwarlord (1): Uncleeurope
Not Voting (4): EFHW, SpaceAnemone, 2.71828....., DatSwan
#1221
MiX (5): raerae, Awaclus, Chickenwarlord, ashersky, UmbrageOfSnow
Awaclus (5): faust, WestCoastDidds, Shraeye, Glooble, Uncleeurope
DatSwan (1): MiX
Not Voting (4): EFHW, SpaceAnemone, 2.71828....., DatSwan
#1234
MiX (5): raerae, Awaclus, Chickenwarlord, ashersky, UmbrageOfSnow
Awaclus (5): faust, WestCoastDidds, Shraeye, Glooble, Uncleeurope
DatSwan (1): MiX
Glooble (1): EFHW
Not Voting (3): SpaceAnemone, 2.71828....., DatSwan
#1261
MiX (5): raerae, Awaclus, Chickenwarlord, ashersky, UmbrageOfSnow
Awaclus (6): faust, WestCoastDidds, Shraeye, Glooble, Uncleeurope, MiX
Glooble (1): EFHW
Not Voting (3): SpaceAnemone, 2.71828....., DatSwan
#1269
MiX (5): raerae, Awaclus, Chickenwarlord, ashersky, UmbrageOfSnow
Awaclus (6): faust, WestCoastDidds, Shraeye, Glooble, Uncleeurope, MiX
Glooble (1): EFHW
Not Voting (3): SpaceAnemone, 2.71828....., DatSwan
#1278
MiX (5): raerae, Awaclus, Chickenwarlord, ashersky, UmbrageOfSnow
Awaclus (6): faust, WestCoastDidds, Shraeye, Glooble, Uncleeurope, MiX
Glooble (1): EFHW
faust (1): 2.71828.....
Not Voting (2): SpaceAnemone, DatSwan
#1279
MiX (4): raerae, Chickenwarlord, ashersky, UmbrageOfSnow
Awaclus (6): faust, WestCoastDidds, Shraeye, Glooble, Uncleeurope, MiX
Glooble (1): EFHW
faust (2): 2.71828....., Awaclus
Not Voting (2): SpaceAnemone, DatSwan
#1280
MiX (3): raerae, Chickenwarlord, ashersky
Awaclus (6): faust, WestCoastDidds, Shraeye, Glooble, Uncleeurope, MiX
Glooble (1): EFHW
faust (3): 2.71828....., Awaclus, UmbrageOfSnow
Not Voting (2): SpaceAnemone, DatSwan
#1281
MiX (3): raerae, Chickenwarlord, ashersky
Awaclus (5): faust, WestCoastDidds, Shraeye, Glooble, Uncleeurope
Glooble (1): EFHW
faust (4): 2.71828....., Awaclus, UmbrageOfSnow, MiX
Not Voting (2): SpaceAnemone, DatSwan
#1282
MiX (3): raerae, Chickenwarlord, ashersky
Awaclus (4): faust, WestCoastDidds, Shraeye, Glooble
Glooble (1): EFHW
faust (5): 2.71828....., Awaclus, UmbrageOfSnow, MiX, Uncleeurope
Not Voting (2): SpaceAnemone, DatSwan
#1291
MiX (3): raerae, Chickenwarlord, ashersky
Awaclus (5): faust, WestCoastDidds, Shraeye, Glooble, SpaceAnemone
Glooble (1): EFHW
faust (5): 2.71828....., Awaclus, UmbrageOfSnow, MiX, Uncleeurope
Not Voting (1): DatSwan
#1293
MiX (4): raerae, Chickenwarlord, ashersky, Shraeye
Awaclus (4): faust, WestCoastDidds, Glooble, SpaceAnemone
Glooble (1): EFHW
faust (5): 2.71828....., Awaclus, UmbrageOfSnow, MiX, Uncleeurope
Not Voting (1): DatSwan
#1301
MiX (4): raerae, Chickenwarlord, ashersky, Shraeye
Awaclus (3): faust, WestCoastDidds, Glooble
Glooble (1): EFHW
faust (5): 2.71828....., Awaclus, UmbrageOfSnow, MiX, Uncleeurope
Uncleeurope (1): SpaceAnemone
Not Voting (1): DatSwan
#1303
MiX (4): raerae, Chickenwarlord, ashersky, Shraeye
Awaclus (3): faust, WestCoastDidds, Glooble
Glooble (1): EFHW
faust (4): 2.71828....., Awaclus, UmbrageOfSnow, MiX
Uncleeurope (1): SpaceAnemone
SpaceAnemone (1): Uncleeurope
Not Voting (1): DatSwan
#1304
MiX (4): raerae, Chickenwarlord, ashersky, Shraeye
Awaclus (4): faust, WestCoastDidds, Glooble, DatSwan
Glooble (1): EFHW
faust (4): 2.71828....., Awaclus, UmbrageOfSnow, MiX
Uncleeurope (1): SpaceAnemone
SpaceAnemone (1): Uncleeurope
#1314
MiX (4): raerae, Chickenwarlord, ashersky, Shraeye
Awaclus (4): faust, WestCoastDidds, Glooble, DatSwan
Glooble (1): EFHW
faust (4): 2.71828....., Awaclus, UmbrageOfSnow, MiX
Uncleeurope (1): SpaceAnemone
SpaceAnemone (1): Uncleeurope
#1316
MiX (5): raerae, Chickenwarlord, ashersky, Shraeye, WestCoastDidds
Awaclus (3): faust, Glooble, DatSwan
Glooble (1): EFHW
faust (4): 2.71828....., Awaclus, UmbrageOfSnow, MiX
Uncleeurope (1): SpaceAnemone
SpaceAnemone (1): Uncleeurope
#1331
MiX (5): raerae, Chickenwarlord, ashersky, Shraeye, WestCoastDidds
Awaclus (3): faust, Glooble, DatSwan
Glooble (1): EFHW
faust (4): 2.71828....., Awaclus, UmbrageOfSnow, MiX
Uncleeurope (1): SpaceAnemone
WestCoastDidds (1): Uncleeurope
#1342
MiX (5): raerae, Chickenwarlord, ashersky, Shraeye, WestCoastDidds
Awaclus (3): faust, Glooble, DatSwan
Glooble (1): EFHW
faust (3): Awaclus, UmbrageOfSnow, MiX
Uncleeurope (2): SpaceAnemone, 2.71828.....
WestCoastDidds (1): Uncleeurope
#1349
MiX (4): raerae, ashersky, Shraeye, WestCoastDidds
Awaclus (4): faust, Glooble, DatSwan, Chickenwarlord
Glooble (1): EFHW
faust (3): Awaclus, UmbrageOfSnow, MiX
Uncleeurope (2): SpaceAnemone, 2.71828.....
WestCoastDidds (1): Uncleeurope
#1354
MiX (4): raerae, ashersky, Shraeye, WestCoastDidds
Awaclus (5): faust, Glooble, DatSwan, Chickenwarlord, Uncleeurope
Glooble (1): EFHW
faust (3): Awaclus, UmbrageOfSnow, MiX
Uncleeurope (2): SpaceAnemone, 2.71828.....
#1357
MiX (4): raerae, ashersky, Shraeye, WestCoastDidds
Awaclus (6): faust, Glooble, DatSwan, Chickenwarlord, Uncleeurope, MiX
Glooble (1): EFHW
faust (2): Awaclus, UmbrageOfSnow
Uncleeurope (2): SpaceAnemone, 2.71828.....
#1370
MiX (4): raerae, ashersky, Shraeye, WestCoastDidds
Awaclus (6): faust, Glooble, DatSwan, Chickenwarlord, Uncleeurope, MiX
Glooble (1): EFHW
faust (2): Awaclus, UmbrageOfSnow
Uncleeurope (1): SpaceAnemone
Chickenwarlord (1): 2.71828.....
#1372
MiX (4): raerae, ashersky, Shraeye, WestCoastDidds
Awaclus (5): faust, Glooble, DatSwan, Chickenwarlord, Uncleeurope
Glooble (1): EFHW
faust (2): Awaclus, UmbrageOfSnow
Uncleeurope (1): SpaceAnemone
Chickenwarlord (2): 2.71828....., MiX
#1375
MiX (4): raerae, ashersky, Shraeye, WestCoastDidds
Awaclus (6): faust, Glooble, DatSwan, Chickenwarlord, Uncleeurope, MiX
Glooble (1): EFHW
faust (2): Awaclus, UmbrageOfSnow
Uncleeurope (1): SpaceAnemone
Chickenwarlord (1): 2.71828.....
#1381
MiX (4): raerae, ashersky, Shraeye, WestCoastDidds
Awaclus (7): faust, Glooble, DatSwan, Chickenwarlord, Uncleeurope, MiX, SpaceAnemone
Glooble (1): EFHW
faust (2): Awaclus, UmbrageOfSnow
Chickenwarlord (1): 2.71828.....
#1385
MiX (4): raerae, ashersky, Shraeye, WestCoastDidds
Awaclus (8): faust, Glooble, DatSwan, Chickenwarlord, Uncleeurope, MiX, SpaceAnemone, 2.71828.....
Glooble (1): EFHW
faust (2): Awaclus, UmbrageOfSnow
Oh! Okay, that's my bad for misunderstanding your word choice. "To catch onto something" is to understand it, so I thought you meant I knew about the change in likelihoods, which I was objecting to because I did not. I now think you mean something more along the lines of "Space was caught out by the change", i.e. I did not know.
I meant you caught on faust's mistake. Why did you quote that faust post then? That confuses me now.
PPE 4
Why chicken?
I also jumped off the Mix wagon at a critical juncture - which if you think MiX is mafia is a pretty damning move.
My statement was saying that you would NK Shraeye on the grounds that he can read you. So whether you thought he was scum or not, or whether he agreed with you on MiX or not.
(Again, though, that’s not why I voted you)
(Again, though, that’s not why I voted you)
But I'm still going to question things that strike me odd regardless of whether they're related to votes on me.
I'm very interested in what faust and Ash think of this.Why us two in particular?
Why chicken?
My past two lynch votes have turned up town, I very nearly was the hammer on the innocent awaclus and Eddie has been saying I'm shifty for like 3 days. He's definitely within his rights - I look like hella scum from voting record alone.
Eddie, did you reread shraeye?
Eddie, did you reread shraeye?
I've been feeling lazy, I will get to it before I head to bed today.
I wanted to know how informed your reads are.Eddie, did you reread shraeye?
I've been feeling lazy, I will get to it before I head to bed today.
Okay, I finished it.
I learned some stuff.
Mainly that wanting no-lynch is confirmed scummy behavior.
Why do you ask?
Cool, so I've finished the D2 glooble reread and he mentions suspicion of MiX at #1015, #1126, #1241, and #1302. He's semi-suspicious of e in #1152 but doesn't hit on that again. He pushes UoS a couple times, disagreeing with things UoS said but not assigning any actual scumpoints. #888 was his wagon analysis and he says there's likely scum in UoS, Space, chicken, and DS for their place on wagon, and Didds for her vote explanation.Would you also support an e lynch?
Based on this, I'm game for a MiX lunch. Glooble died for a reason and MiX was the one he was on the fence of all day (other than Awaclus, obviously).
Vote: MiX
Can someone explain to me why the new default assumption is that there is no SK?Setup is rolled in a way such that only 33% of games that have the Maquis faction also have an SK. So 2 scum teams is the most likely thing. But you're right, it shouldn't matter all that much, the best thing we can do either way is figure out shraeye's partners.
Cool, so I've finished the D2 glooble reread and he mentions suspicion of MiX at #1015, #1126, #1241, and #1302. He's semi-suspicious of e in #1152 but doesn't hit on that again. He pushes UoS a couple times, disagreeing with things UoS said but not assigning any actual scumpoints. #888 was his wagon analysis and he says there's likely scum in UoS, Space, chicken, and DS for their place on wagon, and Didds for her vote explanation.Would you also support an e lynch?
Based on this, I'm game for a MiX lunch. Glooble died for a reason and MiX was the one he was on the fence of all day (other than Awaclus, obviously).
Vote: MiX
Cool, so I've finished the D2 glooble reread and he mentions suspicion of MiX at #1015, #1126, #1241, and #1302. He's semi-suspicious of e in #1152 but doesn't hit on that again. He pushes UoS a couple times, disagreeing with things UoS said but not assigning any actual scumpoints. #888 was his wagon analysis and he says there's likely scum in UoS, Space, chicken, and DS for their place on wagon, and Didds for her vote explanation.Would you also support an e lynch?
Based on this, I'm game for a MiX lunch. Glooble died for a reason and MiX was the one he was on the fence of all day (other than Awaclus, obviously).
Vote: MiX
Depends, are you pulling that from glooble or shraeye interactions?
I'm very interested in what faust and Ash think of this.Why us two in particular?
I think there is a point to your observations, but I don't think MiX and shraeye look like partners. Specifically, shraeye was pushing a MiX lynch all D2.
I'm very interested in what faust and Ash think of this.Why us two in particular?
I think there is a point to your observations, but I don't think MiX and shraeye look like partners. Specifically, shraeye was pushing a MiX lynch all D2.
But that's the whole thing you have to throw out the window when shraeye is involved. He does not interact with his partners in any noticable way.
As for raerae asking for faust and I to weigh in...not sure exactly what you expect me to say. I think both of you are scummy, if not scum.
I'm very interested in what faust and Ash think of this.Why us two in particular?
I think there is a point to your observations, but I don't think MiX and shraeye look like partners. Specifically, shraeye was pushing a MiX lynch all D2.
But that's the whole thing you have to throw out the window when shraeye is involved. He does not interact with his partners in any noticable way.
How about the other way around? Also, this is impossible, he's only human. Did I say this before?
I do not believe this is true. I went back to the one game shraeye and me have been scum together, M31. Here are some of the things he said in the scum QT:I'm very interested in what faust and Ash think of this.Why us two in particular?
I think there is a point to your observations, but I don't think MiX and shraeye look like partners. Specifically, shraeye was pushing a MiX lynch all D2.
But that's the whole thing you have to throw out the window when shraeye is involved. He does not interact with his partners in any noticable way.
What I often do, is research an actual case on one of my partners, but then delete the two most damning pieces of evidence.
Twistedarcher: Just be careful not to defend any of us without a good reasonTwo cases where shraeye says he will deliberately treat a partner differently as scum.
shraeye: so Twisted is right, just don't interpret that as "never defend any partner without 200% solid proof."
I do not believe this is true. I went back to the one game shraeye and me have been scum together, M31. Here are some of the things he said in the scum QT:I'm very interested in what faust and Ash think of this.Why us two in particular?
I think there is a point to your observations, but I don't think MiX and shraeye look like partners. Specifically, shraeye was pushing a MiX lynch all D2.
But that's the whole thing you have to throw out the window when shraeye is involved. He does not interact with his partners in any noticable way.QuoteWhat I often do, is research an actual case on one of my partners, but then delete the two most damning pieces of evidence.QuoteTwistedarcher: Just be careful not to defend any of us without a good reasonTwo cases where shraeye says he will deliberately treat a partner differently as scum.
shraeye: so Twisted is right, just don't interpret that as "never defend any partner without 200% solid proof."
How about the other way around? Also, this is impossible, he's only human. Did I say this before?
The other way around? What's that even mean? I've played this game with him and seen it, it mimics his real life, is almost like I live with him or something.
Responding and building cases is different than interacting with though. Can you look at any of the cases he built this game and see the two pieces of evidence he deleted? Can you see when he's defending somebody for good reason?It's just examples to show that shraeye will interact differently with his partners. Which is kind of clear, everyone does, noone is a machine perfectly able to emulate what they would do if they had less info. And even if they were, scum still has actual incentive to treat their partners differently because they do not want them to die. My quotes show that scum!shraeye does care about that. The whole idea of "shraeye's interactions with his partners are indistinguishable from his interactions with town" is utter nonsense.
Responding and building cases is different than interacting with though. Can you look at any of the cases he built this game and see the two pieces of evidence he deleted? Can you see when he's defending somebody for good reason?It's just examples to show that shraeye will interact differently with his partners. Which is kind of clear, everyone does, noone is a machine perfectly able to emulate what they would do if they had less info. And even if they were, scum still has actual incentive to treat their partners differently because they do not want them to die. My quotes show that scum!shraeye does care about that. The whole idea of "shraeye's interactions with his partners are indistinguishable from his interactions with town" is utter nonsense.
That's not why I reread, and I doubt it is why others did.Responding and building cases is different than interacting with though. Can you look at any of the cases he built this game and see the two pieces of evidence he deleted? Can you see when he's defending somebody for good reason?It's just examples to show that shraeye will interact differently with his partners. Which is kind of clear, everyone does, noone is a machine perfectly able to emulate what they would do if they had less info. And even if they were, scum still has actual incentive to treat their partners differently because they do not want them to die. My quotes show that scum!shraeye does care about that. The whole idea of "shraeye's interactions with his partners are indistinguishable from his interactions with town" is utter nonsense.
I'm saying you all want to reread him so you can see find where he was winking at and nudging his scumbuddies and you will not find that.
Day 3 will end at 12 pm forum time/US ET (16:00 GMT) on Wednesday, March 19th .March 19 is a Tuesday. Can you clarify this?
Day 3 will end at 12 pm forum time/US ET (16:00 GMT) on Wednesday, March 19th .March 19 is a Tuesday. Can you clarify this?
Day 3 will end at 12 pm forum time/US ET (16:00 GMT) on Wednesday, March 19th .March 19 is a Tuesday. Can you clarify this?
Don't blame me I copy and pasted from vote count 3.2. Anyway it should read March 20th.
That's not why I reread, and I doubt it is why others did.Responding and building cases is different than interacting with though. Can you look at any of the cases he built this game and see the two pieces of evidence he deleted? Can you see when he's defending somebody for good reason?It's just examples to show that shraeye will interact differently with his partners. Which is kind of clear, everyone does, noone is a machine perfectly able to emulate what they would do if they had less info. And even if they were, scum still has actual incentive to treat their partners differently because they do not want them to die. My quotes show that scum!shraeye does care about that. The whole idea of "shraeye's interactions with his partners are indistinguishable from his interactions with town" is utter nonsense.
I'm saying you all want to reread him so you can see find where he was winking at and nudging his scumbuddies and you will not find that.
Okay, help me out then because I don't understand, what did you hope to learn in your reread?Who shraeye's partners are.
vote: UoS
Okay, help me out then because I don't understand, what did you hope to learn in your reread?Who shraeye's partners are.
Okay, help me out then because I don't understand, what did you hope to learn in your reread?Who shraeye's partners are.
And did you?
e is next on my list for similar reasons. It has to do with their voting patterns. Why do you think e should almost be conf!scum from my position?vote: UoS
I'm curious what you think of e, because I feel like he ought to be almost conf!scum from your position.
What am I missing about UoS?
As for raerae asking for faust and I to weigh in...not sure exactly what you expect me to say. I think both of you are scummy, if not scum.
Ash, I think you always think I'm scummy. Does that mean you're just discounting what I said? NK analysis is absolutely important when shraeye is involved and it's clear his team killed glooble therefore glooble's kill tells us something about shraeye's team. I mean, do you think I'm making that up or just straight wrong?
By the way, I never lied about my reasons. You're overexaggerating my botched case on you D2 to get people to scumread me. Unless I did lie? Prove it then.
What Robz post were you replying to? I...didn't find it. In fact, it doesn't exist. I am as confused as you are...you're clearly replying to this:I do see one for raerae, just because she's not doing much, and I remember her doing a LOT more in M121, am I wrong? I don't think I am...but this could very well be null, I don't know...
You even say "I really haven't done much this game" which is a direct quote from this. I don't know what to make of this blatant mistake and I'm not sure if you're joking or not.
Ha. I have to admit I didn't look for whatever post you where refering to, I just found a good non-Robz that I remembered (because I wrote it). Well that's awkward.
e is next on my list for similar reasons. It has to do with their voting patterns. Why do you think e should almost be conf!scum from my position?vote: UoS
I'm curious what you think of e, because I feel like he ought to be almost conf!scum from your position.
What am I missing about UoS?
e is next on my list for similar reasons. It has to do with their voting patterns. Why do you think e should almost be conf!scum from my position?
(Space, I hope you’re feeling better. Kicking ass definitely has therapeutic effects.)
NK analysis is absolutely important when shraeye is involved and it's clear his team killed glooble therefore glooble's kill tells us something about shraeye's team. I mean, do you think I'm making that up or just straight wrong?I think this is where we should focus for now. Glooble seemed to be off the MiX wagon entirely and against the faust votes. This is either some mad misdirection or these are probably not on shraeye's team.
I think this is where we should focus for now. Glooble seemed to be off the MiX wagon entirely and against the faust votes. This is either some mad misdirection or these are probably not on shraeye's team.I do not actually think this is enough to exonerate either of them - just thinking that the reason Glooble was killed were probably not either of these.
MiX is likely to not be Maquis at the very least. Some of those huge blocks of information that he has presented seem to be very conclusion first, then figure out what evidence supports it, which jives with the hotblooded townie vibe. By playing as aggressively as he has I would not be surprised if MiX is loved, regardless of alignment.I also jumped off the Mix wagon at a critical juncture - which if you think MiX is mafia is a pretty damning move.
So how do you feel about MiX?
NK analysis is absolutely important when shraeye is involved and it's clear his team killed glooble therefore glooble's kill tells us something about shraeye's team. I mean, do you think I'm making that up or just straight wrong?I think this is where we should focus for now. Glooble seemed to be off the MiX wagon entirely and against the faust votes. This is either some mad misdirection or these are probably not on shraeye's team.
Glooble seemed moderately critical of UoS but not enough that I would think it would paint a target on his back.
I think so.Okay, help me out then because I don't understand, what did you hope to learn in your reread?Who shraeye's partners are.
And did you?
No. You know what, that's bull. I asked you if you were looking for how partners (in more hilarious terms) and you said that isn't why anybody would possibly be looking at shraeye but it was. You're trying to discount my take on him and redirect to somebody else.It's not my fault if you express yourself ulclearly. Yes I am trying to discount your take. Your take is bullshit and I have disproven it. Not sure what you mean by redirecting. Where am I redirecting from? MiX? Then your scumread on me hinges on MiX being scum and you should be voting for him. Where am I redirecting to? I haven't even posted a case.
Vote: faust
Space, I have been known to attract votes from town as town in the past, so while that wagon looks great and it helped me vote Awaclus, I don't want to just lunch everyone on it until we got scum if there is a better lynch to be hadIs there?
Faust, thoughts on Chicken?I think he is decidedlz unlikely to be shraeye's partner. Other than that, could definitely be scum.
Faust, thoughts on Chicken?I think he is decidedlz unlikely to be shraeye's partner. Other than that, could definitely be scum.
There is just zero interaction between the two. I think that is unlikely to happen.Faust, thoughts on Chicken?I think he is decidedlz unlikely to be shraeye's partner. Other than that, could definitely be scum.
Okay, I get the idea, but why decidedly?
Also, thoughts on WCD?I'm withholding judgment until I see the results of the shraeye reread that she promised. But the longer that does not happen, the scummier she is.
EBWOPThere is just zero interaction between the two. I think that is unlikely to happen if both are scum.Faust, thoughts on Chicken?I think he is decidedlz unlikely to be shraeye's partner. Other than that, could definitely be scum.
Okay, I get the idea, but why decidedly?Also, thoughts on WCD?I'm withholding judgment until I see the results of the shraeye reread that she promised. But the longer that does not happen, the scummier she is.
Also, thoughts on WCD?I'm withholding judgment until I see the results of the shraeye reread that she promised. But the longer that does not happen, the scummier she is.
Space, I have been known to attract votes from town as town in the past, so while that wagon looks great and it helped me vote Awaclus, I don't want to just lunch everyone on it until we got scum if there is a better lynch to be hadIs there?
Hey DatSwan!
If I told you there was scum in {mcmcs, Glooble, Umbrage, Awaclus, Jimmmm}, would you think I was right or wrong?
Okay....two thoughts about all of this are:So... who do you think are his partners? Who do you think aren't?
1. That list of folks he didn't interact with is SUPER interesting because he interacted a lot with lots of different people
2. He actively (and effectively?) campaigned against an e lynch and (to a lesser extent) a faust lynch.
Okay....two thoughts about all of this are:So... who do you think are his partners? Who do you think aren't?
1. That list of folks he didn't interact with is SUPER interesting because he interacted a lot with lots of different people
2. He actively (and effectively?) campaigned against an e lynch and (to a lesser extent) a faust lynch.
I think so.Okay, help me out then because I don't understand, what did you hope to learn in your reread?Who shraeye's partners are.
And did you?No. You know what, that's bull. I asked you if you were looking for how partners (in more hilarious terms) and you said that isn't why anybody would possibly be looking at shraeye but it was. You're trying to discount my take on him and redirect to somebody else.It's not my fault if you express yourself ulclearly. Yes I am trying to discount your take. Your take is bullshit and I have disproven it. Not sure what you mean by redirecting. Where am I redirecting from? MiX? Then your scumread on me hinges on MiX being scum and you should be voting for him. Where am I redirecting to? I haven't even posted a case.
Vote: faust
What I am seeing in the reasoning targeting me is all fairly logical for Day 2. Just keep in mind that almost all of this applies to raerae except for leaving the MiX wagon.
When I flip town after yall lynch me, I want you to remember that.
Vote: RaeRae
What I am seeing in the reasoning targeting me is all fairly logical for Day 2. Just keep in mind that almost all of this applies to raerae except for leaving the MiX wagon.
When I flip town after yall lynch me, I want you to remember that.
Vote: RaeRae
NK analysis is absolutely important when shraeye is involved and it's clear his team killed glooble therefore glooble's kill tells us something about shraeye's team. I mean, do you think I'm making that up or just straight wrong?I think this is where we should focus for now. Glooble seemed to be off the MiX wagon entirely and against the faust votes. This is either some mad misdirection or these are probably not on shraeye's team.
Glooble seemed moderately critical of UoS but not enough that I would think it would paint a target on his back.
Are you kidding?? Do you think I made up those post numbers????
I am saying that it is a good argument and that I should probably be lynched for it - but to keep in mind that almost everything in that argument applies to you as well.What I am seeing in the reasoning targeting me is all fairly logical for Day 2. Just keep in mind that almost all of this applies to raerae except for leaving the MiX wagon.
When I flip town after yall lynch me, I want you to remember that.
Vote: RaeRae
But if I'm doing everything you're doing and your town then why are you voting for me?
@chicken, care to respond?
@chicken, care to respond?Alright, after doing a reread of JUST Glooble posts and not sifting through literally everything while at work - it is very clear I was wrong. Glooble was definitely still on the MiX wagon. I guess that does warrant some pause and time for reflection on my part.
That is probably because it isn’t a case. That is, if we are referring to him “lying” about him searching for a quote.
I think it is perfectly acceptable to have been doing a reread, found a post that didn’t match up and then try to assign it to some other post. Him saying he looked for an answer is true, he just didn’t do a full reread of that section. That’s how I see it anyway.
I honestly don’t see the significance of it.
Or are you referring to a different case?
That is probably because it isn’t a case. That is, if we are referring to him “lying” about him searching for a quote.
I think it is perfectly acceptable to have been doing a reread, found a post that didn’t match up and then try to assign it to some other post. Him saying he looked for an answer is true, he just didn’t do a full reread of that section. That’s how I see it anyway.
I honestly don’t see the significance of it.
Or are you referring to a different case?
My whole him and glooble thing. He did blow his stack about lying, he hasn't about the connection to glooble.
Okay, so you never mention it. Read #1545 and the faust quote in it if you want to get an ides of what I'm thinking. I think this leads me to
Vote: raerae, although I do apologize for not doing a full reread on her yet, I did do one on EFHW and I see a bunch of towny traits, so I don't really want to go there.
Request prod on UoS
Okay, so you never mention it. Read #1545 and the faust quote in it if you want to get an ides of what I'm thinking. I think this leads me to
Vote: raerae, although I do apologize for not doing a full reread on her yet, I did do one on EFHW and I see a bunch of towny traits, so I don't really want to go there.
Faust says you don't look like partners and shraeye pushed your lunch? I'm not sure what bearing that has here. It's exactly what I said (shraeye not noticeably tying himself to his partners) and what faust said (he'll push a partners lunch).
I got sidelined by an high allergy count and subsequent sinus infection this week and the medicine makes me foggy.
@MiX, you're aware that a lot of people have been scumreading you, and yet now you say that people are trying to frame you for NKs. Do you really honestly believe that?
Why would a scumteam need to waste their NK, which they can use to kill people who're scumreading them, or to kill players they know are strong late in the game, in order to frame you? You have no track record here, your cases so far have been utterly unconvincing, and you've been caught lying to the thread and then trying to pretend it didn't actually happen.
Why frame you, instead of framing vets like faust and Ash? And why not just let the people who scumread you life so that they'll push for your alleged mislynch on scum's behalf?
Can someone explain to me why the new default assumption is that there is no SK?Setup is rolled in a way such that only 33% of games that have the Maquis faction also have an SK. So 2 scum teams is the most likely thing. But you're right, it shouldn't matter all that much, the best thing we can do either way is figure out shraeye's partners.
However we kind of ignore the fact in those probabilities that no other scum has flipped so far (and scum would have been likely to flip in a game with 2 full factions). Assuming all kills were random from the potential pool, considering this factor changes probabilities as follows:
2 teams: 50.6%
team + SK: 49.4%
Which is to say... really we don't know anything.
Well, you do have to acknowledge both people that flipped scumread me.
Space, I have been known to attract votes from town as town in the past, so while that wagon looks great and it helped me vote Awaclus, I don't want to just lunch everyone on it until we got scum if there is a better lynch to be had
Faust/Eddie:
Why do you think it is more likely that E! Is skum vs Chicken?
Hi.I feel you man. But i don't think we need to worry about Bus Driving. It's a 1-shot power and I don't think it would have been used unless there's a pretty strong reason to do so... and I cannot really see that.
So...I have crotchety old veteran disease right now and am not posting a lot to ensure I don’t say anything untoward.
I will say, NK analysis is great and all, but any one NK could have been affected by the bus drive, whether by town or scum. I personally think folks are not taking that into consideration, especially when using the NK(s) to determine possibilities, to “know” for sure what a scum team was trying to do/who they were “trying to frame”, etc.
I will also mention the amount of self-confidence in some players’ posts/arguments/defenses is misguided and off putting, unless they are scum. Which, okay, but it just makes me want to lynch you.
So I can’t separate who I think is scummy for real and who I think should be lynched for style.
Faust/Eddie:
Why do you think it is more likely that E! Is skum vs Chicken?
shraeye seems like town.Conindicence? Maybe. but it helped plant the idea of shraeye's townieness in people's minds.
Here's my thoughts on e:This feels like the thing describe in the scum QT post from earlier where shraeye would post a weak case on a partner.
I feel like they were getting suspicion early on for being chipper and jokey. It seems like they were getting slight impressions, magnifying them 1000% either A) because it's funny or B) because that makes people go "What?!" and get this big game rolling. I put big townpoints on them for that. My recollection is that once people started saying e was suspicious, then 2.71 started making more muted opinions. I don't like that; reacting when others perceive you as scummy isn't in general good. Like, if large cases were happening, and 2.71's defending them....coool. But if people are like "feels weird" and then 2.71 changes the vibes they're putting out....don't love that. So the townpoints will probably carry 2.71 off my list tonight. But 2.71 is not my biggest townread no more.
And actually, speaking of moving off Robz,(emphasis mine)
Vote: Robz
1) posting about his meta off not being useful D1 and
2) his lazy vote on me that solidified my wagon as an actually viable lynch
Both things I can see scum!Robz doing. I know I said Robz was town for point 1 earlier, but I changed my mind
I am alive D2!shows that e is aware of the fact that he's a frequent nightkill. In fact I think we had some statistics done at some point that showed his NK ratio being about as high as mine.
e immediately tries to spin it so that suspicion falls on the people on the wagon, not himself. And 1 post later, despite just having supposedly seen evidence for his scumminess, he excludes Awaclus from suspicion for no reason.
Really like this wagon grab by Space, and especially since I know I am town it does add extra suspicion to WCD, Awaclus, andLaLightEFHW
I think e tries to put on an uninvolved persona in order to deflect the nk away from himself.And if you want to use that as a scum slip be my guest. I was probably more presumptive than I needed to be, but this is multi-ball, right?Now is probably a good time for you to read the setup.
But I have made it this far....
Vote: Awaclushammers Awaclus without giving any time to claim. I think in a deliberate effort to make himself more scummy and not be nightkilled.
PPE: hammer?
Well, you do have to acknowledge both people that flipped scumread me.
Ten people in this game have voted for you. The chance of any given player who flips having scumread you at some point is really high. I think we should at least consider the chance that it's just a coincidence that the people who scum killed were some of the 10 who'd scumread you.
Nope. Shraeye's team killed glooble for a reason, he didn't crumb, he wasn't obvtown, it was either a complete shot in the dark (which I know shraeye would never agree to), or it was to protect the team. I would just as happily have voted for anybody else had glooble pointed to them as much as he pointed to you. I'm not looking for who performed the night kills and then making up why they did it. I'm using what we know (shraeye's team killed glooble), what I know (how shraeye thinks), and figuring out what those facts point to (you are on shraeye's team). Shraeye's flip gives us extra information we don't normally have (knowing who had a part in the kill) and we have to use that knowledge.
Also, I never intentionally try to betownieto avoid the NK.
Who wants clarifications on my raerae case? Space?
Faust’s e post is solid and I appreciate the work.I mean, yes? I am not sure what your point is. It looks scummy because scum does not want their partner lynched D1.
faust, what about shraeye’s active bashing of the e wagon on D1. If e dies get lynched, doesn’t it look super bad for shraeye? Or I’m overthinking and if that had seemed more likely he’d have changed tactics and provided himself more cover?
fausts post has a bunch of cool stuff, but how on earth was that hammer scummy?How on earth was that hammer not scummy?
how many times have you been scum that had to worry about another scum's nightkill?Also, I never intentionally try to betownieto avoid the NK.
scummy I mean
Faust’s e post is solid and I appreciate the work.I mean, yes? I am not sure what your point is. It looks scummy because scum does not want their partner lynched D1.
faust, what about shraeye’s active bashing of the e wagon on D1. If e dies get lynched, doesn’t it look super bad for shraeye? Or I’m overthinking and if that had seemed more likely he’d have changed tactics and provided himself more cover?
And since you make that argument, it's no longer dumb.Faust’s e post is solid and I appreciate the work.I mean, yes? I am not sure what your point is. It looks scummy because scum does not want their partner lynched D1.
faust, what about shraeye’s active bashing of the e wagon on D1. If e dies get lynched, doesn’t it look super bad for shraeye? Or I’m overthinking and if that had seemed more likely he’d have changed tactics and provided himself more cover?
I’m not sure what my point is, either. I’m just trying to think through the noticeable level of shraeye defense of e D1. It seems dumb to do for a teammate because it’s obvious.
how many times have you been scum that had to worry about another scum's nightkill?Also, I never intentionally try to betownieto avoid the NK.
scummy I mean
Who wants clarifications on my raerae case? Space?
I think your case on raerae is that she asserts that the team who killed Glooble must have done so for a reason, and yet she doesn't seem all that bothered by the fact that the team/SK who killed Shraeye also must have done so for a reason, right?
Her reason for the initial assertion is that the team that killed Glooble contained her husband, whom she says she knows pretty well, having been married to him for a while.
Therefor, I'll probably feel much more invested in your case if you can prove that she has an additional husband who's a member of the alignment that killed Shraeye, and that raerae is also absolutely convinced that this extra husband's faction would only have killed Shraeye for his scumreads.
One thing, you can call me scum (and be incorrect) just don't call me scum on the same team as shraeye.
Faust/Eddie:
Why do you think it is more likely that E! Is skum vs Chicken?
What do you think of e? Because you seem to be a bit undecided on the subject.
One thing, you can call me scum (and be incorrect) just don't call me scum on the same team as shraeye.
Why are you not Maquis? I believe there's more pointing you towards there than non-Maquis...do you disagree?
Ugh. Wagons on me. I always feel awkward defending myself, much prefer to go on the offensive and find another wagon to focus on. Like chicken, for example.
Faust’s e post is solid and I appreciate the work.
faust, what about shraeye’s active bashing of the e wagon on D1. If e dies get lynched, doesn’t it look super bad for shraeye? Or I’m overthinking and if that had seemed more likely he’d have changed tactics and provided himself more cover?
Faust’s e post is solid and I appreciate the work.
faust, what about shraeye’s active bashing of the e wagon on D1. If e dies get lynched, doesn’t it look super bad for shraeye? Or I’m overthinking and if that had seemed more likely he’d have changed tactics and provided himself more cover?
Weren’t you on board for an e lynch earlier on in the game? Has that changed?
One thing, you can call me scum (and be incorrect) just don't call me scum on the same team as shraeye.Classic "You're finding me scummy for the wrong reasons!"
Ugh. Wagons on me. I always feel awkward defending myself, much prefer to go on the offensive and find another wagon to focus on. Like chicken, for example.Go on then, convince me.
So what do people think about hunting the non-Shraeye team with the hopes of evening that stuff up?Again, people assuming we have two teams.
Swowl hinted at it a bit above but I am iffy on the subject, because if the other group is the so then it is a lot harder to nail them down.
So what do people think about hunting the non-Shraeye team with the hopes of evening that stuff up?Again, people assuming we have two teams.
Swowl hinted at it a bit above but I am iffy on the subject, because if the other group is the so then it is a lot harder to nail them down.
I don't know what you mean. Other than "group"?So what do people think about hunting the non-Shraeye team with the hopes of evening that stuff up?Again, people assuming we have two teams.
Swowl hinted at it a bit above but I am iffy on the subject, because if the other group is the so then it is a lot harder to nail them down.
What term would you prefer...?
Who would you pick as a potential Shraeye partner?
Right; lets talk reads. ...
Now to the bottom end of the list:
Glooble:
There's Glooble/ash Ferengi confusion that made me suspicious
Still feels like he's saying an awful lot and pushing an awful little. That disparity is scummier than either thing by itself. MiX is saying/pushing a lot. Robz is saying/pushing nothing. Cool, consistency.
He was vocally saying that gut-based reads aren't good
THIS piece, always interests me; it felt like suspicion was up and on him, but I vote, Uncle votes, and then crickets...that always raises my eyebrows off my face. On reread, I was again thinking that I knee-jerked myself into a scumread, but it just magnifies my suspicions so much when people get cold feet and don't vote for someone they suspect. So, Glooble's staying in my would-lynch list.
Some players have done towny things. No players have set themselves apart as “good.”Yeah, I agree with this big big. I have a handful of scumreads, a double-handful of people I'm suspicious of. Another handful of people I'm null on, which makes me suspicious. My scale is severely tipped towards scum; glooble and Uncle are my two singular townreads. I've got DatSwan sorted into town category too, but that's mostly my gut-read from day1 carrying over.
So I’m struggling to separate the wheat.
yeah, I don't want to lynch MiX, not yet. Robz lately is paying his meta in the thread trying to seem town but usually ends up as scum. hmmmBoooo for the lazy "read". You have read enough games to realize Robz playing up is meta is what he does. It's a Robz-tell. So, yes, he hasn't been abducted and replaced by weasels.
I can't tell if that or this is the scummier vote:vote: 2.7 he doesn’t feel as genuine as he normally does to me. Hasn’t come across as towny and he normally does pretty early.
Who would you say is Shraeye’s partner?
Well technically he townread him here:Ok, that throws a wrench in things. Unless he had decided to nk him. It was pretty clear that a Glooble wagon would go nowhere.Some players have done towny things. No players have set themselves apart as “good.”Yeah, I agree with this big big. I have a handful of scumreads, a double-handful of people I'm suspicious of. Another handful of people I'm null on, which makes me suspicious. My scale is severely tipped towards scum; glooble and Uncle are my two singular townreads. I've got DatSwan sorted into town category too, but that's mostly my gut-read from day1 carrying over.
So I’m struggling to separate the wheat.
Well, that wasn't actually clear until later. Guess it's a wash.Well technically he townread him here:Ok, that throws a wrench in things. Unless he had decided to nk him. It was pretty clear that a Glooble wagon would go nowhere.Some players have done towny things. No players have set themselves apart as “good.”Yeah, I agree with this big big. I have a handful of scumreads, a double-handful of people I'm suspicious of. Another handful of people I'm null on, which makes me suspicious. My scale is severely tipped towards scum; glooble and Uncle are my two singular townreads. I've got DatSwan sorted into town category too, but that's mostly my gut-read from day1 carrying over.
So I’m struggling to separate the wheat.
Or maybe that scum team found Gloobie townie.
Shraeye even mentioned Gloobie as a town read.
So what do people think about hunting the non-Shraeye team with the hopes of evening that stuff up?That's stupid.
I do not like faust's case. @faust, is e your remaining neighbor?No comment.
I'd say ashersky is not likely to be Shraeye's partner, given Shraeye's "ashes to ashes" campaign.That went on for 3 or 4 posts, never had any weight behind it, and shraeye quickly abandons it to join the LaLight wagon.
Slightly longer and less hostile reply:So what do people think about hunting the non-Shraeye team with the hopes of evening that stuff up?That's stupid.
I am suspicious Space's defense of MiX but I can't exactly put my finger on why right at this second (phones are great and terrible all at the same time).Did you mean Space? Did I miss this post?
Pretty sure I did and pretty sure there were two. I'll see what I can find in the bigger am hours.
While I'm talking about D2, @faust, did you ever post that N1 NK analysis? Unrelated, do you think it's important for today?It was basically "I'm not dead and this implicates my neighbors". Also I think scum avoiding commonly nightkilled players makes it more likely that they have one such player on their team. I think we can see one team killing off strong townie-looking players (mcmc, shraeye) and the other avoiding them in favor of lower profile kills (Jimmmmm, Glooble).
WCD- talk to me. Why are we chicken over E!?
Can you clarify who you would prefer to lynch, e or chicken?WCD- talk to me. Why are we chicken over E!?
Hmmmm....well, I think Chicken looks shifty and his response to pressure hasn’t been awesome, plus he was one of the three who had noticeably less interaction with Shraeye (along with Rae and Space) but he’s also way new so he could just be getting is legs under him. As I’m writing this, I’m thinking more about his response to pressure and it is definitely more moderated than I’d expect (based entirely on me and my cohort) from a newb, and now I wonder if he’s been told not to freak out if he picks up votes, and perhaps he’s also been told he needs to engage more...direction from a scum QT? I think there is a good chance he’s scum, so it’s not a throwaway vote.
I can definitely see moving my vote to e, but it would put him at 5 (L-2) and this seems a bit dangerous this far from deadline with a double voter of unknown alignment out there so I’m holding off until we hear more from e. He’d be a lot more attractive to me if freaking MiX and Eddie weren’t on his wagon.
I think, at this point on Monday morning before I’ve had coffee, I’d be okay voting for chicken, e, or MiX.
What are you thinking? Is it time to go, or to stay the course?
He’d be a lot more attractive to me if freaking MiX and Eddie weren’t on his wagon.
I am suspicious Space's defense of MiX but I can't exactly put my finger on why right at this second (phones are great and terrible all at the same time).Did you mean Space? Did I miss this post?
Pretty sure I did and pretty sure there were two. I'll see what I can find in the bigger am hours.
Did you ever talk about this again? Sure shraeye died but the confusion stands.
What is the good evidence? His defending e? Do you have leads on other potential partners? We should be looking for any scum. IF we have two teams, there are 3 mirror scum and only two maquis scum to find. We have a better chance of hitting mirror than maquis.Slightly longer and less hostile reply:So what do people think about hunting the non-Shraeye team with the hopes of evening that stuff up?That's stupid.
We have good evidence to look for shraeye's partners. We have very little evidence to find a non-Maquis scum. If anything, looking for non-Maquis scum greatly increases the risk of lynching town because we are excluding people that have a pretty decent chance of flipping scum.
While I'm talking about D2, @faust, did you ever post that N1 NK analysis? Unrelated, do you think it's important for today?It was basically "I'm not dead and this implicates my neighbors". Also I think scum avoiding commonly nightkilled players makes it more likely that they have one such player on their team. I think we can see one team killing off strong townie-looking players (mcmc, shraeye) and the other avoiding them in favor of lower profile kills (Jimmmmm, Glooble).
It feels to me like you are trying to manipulate us again.I do not like faust's case. @faust, is e your remaining neighbor?No comment.
I mean, you could always go and ask e if he's my neighbor. I don't think revealing that info is beneficial right now. Being my neighbor does not factor strongly into any read I have right now.It feels to me like you are trying to manipulate us again.I do not like faust's case. @faust, is e your remaining neighbor?No comment.
The evidence is everything shraeye did and all interactions people had with shraeye. Yes I have leads on other potential partners.What is the good evidence? His defending e? Do you have leads on other potential partners? We should be looking for any scum. IF we have two teams, there are 3 mirror scum and only two maquis scum to find. We have a better chance of hitting mirror than maquis.Slightly longer and less hostile reply:So what do people think about hunting the non-Shraeye team with the hopes of evening that stuff up?That's stupid.
We have good evidence to look for shraeye's partners. We have very little evidence to find a non-Maquis scum. If anything, looking for non-Maquis scum greatly increases the risk of lynching town because we are excluding people that have a pretty decent chance of flipping scum.
Also, I don't understand the reasoning behind fewer interactions = partner. Can you explain?
He’d be a lot more attractive to me if freaking MiX and Eddie weren’t on his wagon.
I forgot why you're scumreading me. But most importantly, what's wrong with Eddie's vote?
As far as my lynch peference, like I said, I’m waiting to see what e has to say for himself in regard to the wagon, but at the moment they are both in top 3.That does not answer my question. Also e already responded to the wagon. If deadline was now, would you prefer to lynch chicken or e?
Okay, raerae, who would you vote for after MiX?
I am suspicious Space's defense of MiX but I can't exactly put my finger on why right at this second (phones are great and terrible all at the same time).Did you mean Space? Did I miss this post?
Pretty sure I did and pretty sure there were two. I'll see what I can find in the bigger am hours.
Did you ever talk about this again? Sure shraeye died but the confusion stands.
While I'm talking about D2, @faust, did you ever post that N1 NK analysis? Unrelated, do you think it's important for today?
Rereading raerae just gets me some nulls, not the townieness of M121 raerae but I confess her scumread on me is distorting that, next step might be rereading that game. Oh and rereading e, of course.
Ugh. Wagons on me. I always feel awkward defending myself, much prefer to go on the offensive and find another wagon to focus on. Like chicken, for example.
faust, did he respond with anything more then this?I don't really see why I should answer yur questions when you don't answer mine.Ugh. Wagons on me. I always feel awkward defending myself, much prefer to go on the offensive and find another wagon to focus on. Like chicken, for example.
faust, did he respond with anything more then this?
I don't really see why I should answer yur questions when you don't answer mine.
Huh? I was trying to answer your question. I said I was waiting for e to respond before I decided, you said he had. I was looking back to see. I was trying to work with you, so this seems really odd to me.
faust, did he respond with anything more then this?
I don't really see why I should answer yur questions when you don't answer mine.
WCD- talk to me. Why are we chicken over E!?
Hmmmm....well, I think Chicken looks shifty and his response to pressure hasn’t been awesome, plus he was one of the three who had noticeably less interaction with Shraeye (along with Rae and Space) but he’s also way new so he could just be getting is legs under him. As I’m writing this, I’m thinking more about his response to pressure and it is definitely more moderated than I’d expect (based entirely on me and my cohort) from a newb, and now I wonder if he’s been told not to freak out if he picks up votes, and perhaps he’s also been told he needs to engage more...direction from a scum QT? I think there is a good chance he’s scum, so it’s not a throwaway vote.
I can definitely see moving my vote to e, but it would put him at 5 (L-2) and this seems a bit dangerous this far from deadline with a double voter of unknown alignment out there so I’m holding off until we hear more from e. He’d be a lot more attractive to me if freaking MiX and Eddie weren’t on his wagon.
I think, at this point on Monday morning before I’ve had coffee, I’d be okay voting for chicken, e, or MiX.
What are you thinking? Is it time to go, or to stay the course?
Personally, I do not mind staying the course. However, unless i can come up with more persuasive info, it seems that may not be good enough to make chicken happen.
Okay, raerae, who would you vote for after MiX?
I want MiX, why do I have to compromise on that? I'm constantly accused of knowing anything and everything about shraeye, a shraerae team accusation gets made every game we're in, yet now when I actually feel confident about something related to him I'm dismissed because how could I ever possibly know anything about how shraeye thinks? It's nonsense. I'm not moving.
Okay, raerae, who would you vote for after MiX?
I want MiX, why do I have to compromise on that? I'm constantly accused of knowing anything and everything about shraeye, a shraerae team accusation gets made every game we're in, yet now when I actually feel confident about something related to him I'm dismissed because how could I ever possibly know anything about how shraeye thinks? It's nonsense. I'm not moving.
So your vote is locked in? No other person will be receiving your vote today? No other human in this game is worthy of suspicion at this moment?
Okay, raerae, who would you vote for after MiX?
I want MiX, why do I have to compromise on that? I'm constantly accused of knowing anything and everything about shraeye, a shraerae team accusation gets made every game we're in, yet now when I actually feel confident about something related to him I'm dismissed because how could I ever possibly know anything about how shraeye thinks? It's nonsense. I'm not moving.
So your vote is locked in? No other person will be receiving your vote today? No other human in this game is worthy of suspicion at this moment?
I feel strongly enough that MiX is scum that I don't want to move. I'm pissed that people have dismissed my case because I couldn't possibly know what my husband (the man I've known since we were 14) could possibly be thinking. So, in defense of myself, in defiance of other loud voices in the game, and out of a not small amount of stubbornness, you're right and my vote is locked.
Okay, raerae, who would you vote for after MiX?
I want MiX, why do I have to compromise on that? I'm constantly accused of knowing anything and everything about shraeye, a shraerae team accusation gets made every game we're in, yet now when I actually feel confident about something related to him I'm dismissed because how could I ever possibly know anything about how shraeye thinks? It's nonsense. I'm not moving.
So your vote is locked in? No other person will be receiving your vote today? No other human in this game is worthy of suspicion at this moment?
I feel strongly enough that MiX is scum that I don't want to move. I'm pissed that people have dismissed my case because I couldn't possibly know what my husband (the man I've known since we were 14) could possibly be thinking. So, in defense of myself, in defiance of other loud voices in the game, and out of a not small amount of stubbornness, you're right and my vote is locked.
I am assuming I did not read your MiX case closely enough, so I will re-do that now.
Also though - you should probably read some other cases if you have time before DL. Tunneling one person at this junction is most likely not good for town.
re: Chicken leaving MiX's wagon, I don't think having a scum partner join a wagon would make me leave. I'd assume that partner wanted us to be on the same wagon for a reason.DatSwan, how much of your chicken case is based on his wagon hop, and does my take on it change anything for you?
raerae, I had discounted MiX as a Shraeye partner because Shraeye spent a lot of time on the MiX wagon. How does that fit into your narrative?
Raerae, thoughts on WCD?
Hmmmm....well, I think Chicken looks shifty and his response to pressure hasn’t been awesome, plus he was one of the three who had noticeably less interaction with Shraeye (along with Rae and Space) but he’s also way new so he could just be getting is legs under him. As I’m writing this, I’m thinking more about his response to pressure and it is definitely more moderated than I’d expect
I have asked you to decide now.faust, did he respond with anything more then this?
I don't really see why I should answer yur questions when you don't answer mine.
EBWOP...quote fail
Huh? I was trying to answer your question. I said I was waiting for e to respond before I decided, you said he had. I was looking back to see. I was trying to work with you, so this seems really odd to me.
@faust, thoughts on raerae?There are some odd interactions with shraeye, but that could just be knowing each other well. Overall fairly townie.
You would call the odd interactions with e to be much more significant?No. But e is scummy independent of interactions with shraeye.
Oh I just finished a reread as well. I can recommend it.
Vote: raerae
Why was Raerae your first instinct?She stuck out the most when rereading shraeye. Then I reread all the people who stuck out and decided that actually, e is the scummiest.Oh I just finished a reread as well. I can recommend it.
Vote: raerae
Why was Raerae your first instinct?She stuck out the most when rereading shraeye. Then I reread all the people who stuck out and decided that actually, e is the scummiest.Oh I just finished a reread as well. I can recommend it.
Vote: raerae
I do not want to answer that question.Why was Raerae your first instinct?She stuck out the most when rereading shraeye. Then I reread all the people who stuck out and decided that actually, e is the scummiest.Oh I just finished a reread as well. I can recommend it.
Vote: raerae
Who would you want to kill if it wasn't e?
I do not want to answer that question.Why was Raerae your first instinct?She stuck out the most when rereading shraeye. Then I reread all the people who stuck out and decided that actually, e is the scummiest.Oh I just finished a reread as well. I can recommend it.
Vote: raerae
Who would you want to kill if it wasn't e?
I don't have a list like that.I do not want to answer that question.Why was Raerae your first instinct?She stuck out the most when rereading shraeye. Then I reread all the people who stuck out and decided that actually, e is the scummiest.Oh I just finished a reread as well. I can recommend it.
Vote: raerae
Who would you want to kill if it wasn't e?
Well that is unfortunate. How many people are on your okay-to-kill-today list? And how many are you satisfied with?
I don't have a list like that.I do not want to answer that question.Why was Raerae your first instinct?She stuck out the most when rereading shraeye. Then I reread all the people who stuck out and decided that actually, e is the scummiest.Oh I just finished a reread as well. I can recommend it.
Vote: raerae
Who would you want to kill if it wasn't e?
Well that is unfortunate. How many people are on your okay-to-kill-today list? And how many are you satisfied with?
Okay, well did you think of a name when I asked my initial question?Yes.
Okay, well did you think of a name when I asked my initial question?Yes.
Okay, raerae, who would you vote for after MiX?
I want MiX, why do I have to compromise on that? I'm constantly accused of knowing anything and everything about shraeye, a shraerae team accusation gets made every game we're in, yet now when I actually feel confident about something related to him I'm dismissed because how could I ever possibly know anything about how shraeye thinks? It's nonsense. I'm not moving.
So your vote is locked in? No other person will be receiving your vote today? No other human in this game is worthy of suspicion at this moment?
I feel strongly enough that MiX is scum that I don't want to move. I'm pissed that people have dismissed my case because I couldn't possibly know what my husband (the man I've known since we were 14) could possibly be thinking. So, in defense of myself, in defiance of other loud voices in the game, and out of a not small amount of stubbornness, you're right and my vote is locked.
I am assuming I did not read your MiX case closely enough, so I will re-do that now.
Also though - you should probably read some other cases if you have time before DL. Tunneling one person at this junction is most likely not good for town.
Do you think I haven't been reading? Sticking to my guns and ignoring the game are two different things. I don't love the e case, don't really even like it, and I'm feeling less good about faust this game than last. He feels the same about me I'd guess so that doesn't really mean much. But I have nothing other than feelings to go on there, I can't even give a blow by blow of what I don't like about the case, it just doesn't feel right to me. I'm not sure about chicken because he's new so while I agree with some points made I'm not comfortable enough that he's scum to dive in on that one.
ashersky, where are you likely to vote?
Didds, you don't like the e wagon because Eddie is on it, but you don't list Eddie as one of the people you would lynch. How does that work?
Okay, raerae, who would you vote for after MiX?
I want MiX, why do I have to compromise on that? I'm constantly accused of knowing anything and everything about shraeye, a shraerae team accusation gets made every game we're in, yet now when I actually feel confident about something related to him I'm dismissed because how could I ever possibly know anything about how shraeye thinks? It's nonsense. I'm not moving.
So your vote is locked in? No other person will be receiving your vote today? No other human in this game is worthy of suspicion at this moment?
I feel strongly enough that MiX is scum that I don't want to move. I'm pissed that people have dismissed my case because I couldn't possibly know what my husband (the man I've known since we were 14) could possibly be thinking. So, in defense of myself, in defiance of other loud voices in the game, and out of a not small amount of stubbornness, you're right and my vote is locked.
Didds, you don't like the e wagon because Eddie is on it, but you don't list Eddie as one of the people you would lynch. How does that work?
Ehhh....he jumps around a lot so I’m not convinced he’ll stay, although the longer that persists the less relevant this is. But if he stays just long enough for it to reach a critical mass and then hops, that feels disengenious to me. So, a rather minor point, but between the (increasingly suspicious) faust, MiX, and Eddie, it’s just seems like a rather unattractive option. If there were more of my town reads locked in there, I’d feel more secure.
What do you think, EFHW, of the pressure that faust is giving me about weighing options? Does this fit into your manipulation narrative about him this game? It feels decidedly odd to me.
Hmm...what do you actually think of Eddie? Is he scum? Is he town? Null? Not liking how someone votes isn't a reason for not joining whatever wagon they're on.
What do you think, EFHW, of the pressure that faust is giving me about weighing options? Does this fit into your manipulation narrative about him this game? It feels decidedly odd to me.My guess is that you are his second choice after e so he is trying to make things uncomfortable for you.
My issue with your case is that there are many possible reasons for why Shraeye's team killed Glooble. If MiX is scum, then Glooble's suspecting him would have been a factor. But MiX could be town and Shraeye's team would still have compelling reasons to nk Glooble. He was going to be hard to lynch and at one point Shraeye had a scumread on him. So for me it doesn't follow that MiX HAS to be scum.Okay, raerae, who would you vote for after MiX?
I want MiX, why do I have to compromise on that? I'm constantly accused of knowing anything and everything about shraeye, a shraerae team accusation gets made every game we're in, yet now when I actually feel confident about something related to him I'm dismissed because how could I ever possibly know anything about how shraeye thinks? It's nonsense. I'm not moving.
So your vote is locked in? No other person will be receiving your vote today? No other human in this game is worthy of suspicion at this moment?
I feel strongly enough that MiX is scum that I don't want to move. I'm pissed that people have dismissed my case because I couldn't possibly know what my husband (the man I've known since we were 14) could possibly be thinking. So, in defense of myself, in defiance of other loud voices in the game, and out of a not small amount of stubbornness, you're right and my vote is locked.
My concern about manipulation is that the Awaclus case felt very iffy to me. Like he was spinning things as scummy as opposed to actually finding scummy things. His case on e feels very much the same.I don't understand how the two would feel the same. The Awaclus push had some amount of insincerity of course, since I had a hidden agenda. I don't understand how the e case is similar however... with Awaclus, I have tunneled him all day, hammering home the same point over and over again. With e, I have deliberately withheld my thoughts in order to get unbiased rereads from other players, I have only made the case when pressed and it involves an evaluation of his whole game and interactions rather than just a single vote. The two things are different in basically every respect.
In both cases you won't discuss anyone else. Your pressure on WCD certainly seems like you want the e lynch and are going to fight for it. Both cases feel contrived.My concern about manipulation is that the Awaclus case felt very iffy to me. Like he was spinning things as scummy as opposed to actually finding scummy things. His case on e feels very much the same.I don't understand how the two would feel the same. The Awaclus push had some amount of insincerity of course, since I had a hidden agenda. I don't understand how the e case is similar however... with Awaclus, I have tunneled him all day, hammering home the same point over and over again. With e, I have deliberately withheld my thoughts in order to get unbiased rereads from other players, I have only made the case when pressed and it involves an evaluation of his whole game and interactions rather than just a single vote. The two things are different in basically every respect.
Okay, let's ruin Glooble's hard workGlooble's or Shraeye's?
Vote: MiX
2.71828..... (3): UncleEurope, SpaceAnemone, MiX
chickenwarlord (3): DatSwan, 2.71828....., WestCoastDidds
MiX (3): raerae, chickenwarlord, Umbrageofsnow
UmbrageOfSnow (1): EFHW
WCD (1): faust
Not Voting (1): ashersky
So why are you voting for me and not faust?I don't think faust is scum.
Space/MiX, could you two summarize the e case for me?
A cop with a result should speak up, not try to live another night. 1:1 benefits town. Ignoring this was one flawed assumption in faust's Awaclus ploy, which I am still irritated about.
Mh, I am happy to discuss other options and have done so. But what options do we have? chicken, where the case boils down to "he's kind of lurky", and MiX, the person scum!shraeye has tried to lynch for most of D2. Neither of those seems very appealing, and noone has come up with a convincing case.In both cases you won't discuss anyone else. Your pressure on WCD certainly seems like you want the e lynch and are going to fight for it. Both cases feel contrived.My concern about manipulation is that the Awaclus case felt very iffy to me. Like he was spinning things as scummy as opposed to actually finding scummy things. His case on e feels very much the same.I don't understand how the two would feel the same. The Awaclus push had some amount of insincerity of course, since I had a hidden agenda. I don't understand how the e case is similar however... with Awaclus, I have tunneled him all day, hammering home the same point over and over again. With e, I have deliberately withheld my thoughts in order to get unbiased rereads from other players, I have only made the case when pressed and it involves an evaluation of his whole game and interactions rather than just a single vote. The two things are different in basically every respect.
What do you think of faust?
What do you think of faust?
I think I need to reevaluate him in light of his Ferengi claim, and I'm not going to have the time to do that before deadline probably, especially as I need to take the time and try to avoid confbias. But I've been the only one scumreading him, or at least willing to vote him all game, other than for 30 seconds on Day 2. It's pretty clear we're not going to lynch him today so I'm going to focus on other people.
Here's a list of all the alive players, and all the other players who've vote for them at least once so far in the game, in case it's interesting for everyone else:
[...]
faust: 8 (UmbrageOfSnow, DatSwan, MiX, ashersky, 2.71828....., Awaclus, Uncleeurope, raerae)
What do you think of faust?
I think I need to reevaluate him in light of his Ferengi claim, and I'm not going to have the time to do that before deadline probably, especially as I need to take the time and try to avoid confbias. But I've been the only one scumreading him, or at least willing to vote him all game, other than for 30 seconds on Day 2. It's pretty clear we're not going to lynch him today so I'm going to focus on other people.
You said maybe Awaclus would have claimed cop if e hadn't hammered him, which reminded me that faust's plan depended on town all assuming he was a cop with a result, which I didn't and wouldn't.A cop with a result should speak up, not try to live another night. 1:1 benefits town. Ignoring this was one flawed assumption in faust's Awaclus ploy, which I am still irritated about.
This late in the day I highly doubt anyone will come out with a guilty result. I also believe 3 nights are the correct number of nights to wait, so I don't think you're right. But what do I know.
What does this have to do with faust's play?
You have refused to share your ideas about other potential Shraeye partners.Mh, I am happy to discuss other options and have done so. But what options do we have? chicken, where the case boils down to "he's kind of lurky", and MiX, the person scum!shraeye has tried to lynch for most of D2. Neither of those seems very appealing, and noone has come up with a convincing case.In both cases you won't discuss anyone else. Your pressure on WCD certainly seems like you want the e lynch and are going to fight for it. Both cases feel contrived.My concern about manipulation is that the Awaclus case felt very iffy to me. Like he was spinning things as scummy as opposed to actually finding scummy things. His case on e feels very much the same.I don't understand how the two would feel the same. The Awaclus push had some amount of insincerity of course, since I had a hidden agenda. I don't understand how the e case is similar however... with Awaclus, I have tunneled him all day, hammering home the same point over and over again. With e, I have deliberately withheld my thoughts in order to get unbiased rereads from other players, I have only made the case when pressed and it involves an evaluation of his whole game and interactions rather than just a single vote. The two things are different in basically every respect.
I would gladly engage with someone who is really making a case on someone that's more than one throwaway observation. It is not my fault that this is not happening.
EFHW: are you townreading e?No.
You said maybe Awaclus would have claimed cop if e hadn't hammered him, which reminded me that faust's plan depended on town all assuming he was a cop with a result, which I didn't and wouldn't.A cop with a result should speak up, not try to live another night. 1:1 benefits town. Ignoring this was one flawed assumption in faust's Awaclus ploy, which I am still irritated about.
This late in the day I highly doubt anyone will come out with a guilty result. I also believe 3 nights are the correct number of nights to wait, so I don't think you're right. But what do I know.
What does this have to do with faust's play?
3 nights to wait for what?
You have refused to share your ideas about other potential Shraeye partners.Yes. I don't see how sharing that would benefit town right now. It only helps scum figure out who they should nightkill, and gives them leeway to support the wagon on the scumread that isn't their partner.
I should also throw in that out of everyone she is the person who has been the most “well, Uncle is suspect” without doing ANYTHING about it. Like, make a case on me or leave me alone, because what she is doing is he definition of keeping me open an option to lynch in the future.
I think that behavior is scummy and am using that to build my case, an element you people might not see as significant as I see it. So some amount of my case could be seen as bias, and should be noted.
Oh, thanks for the personal attacks, Eddie. And a mean nickname to boot. Yeah, that’s awesome. Cool.Is waffle an anti-Belgian racial slur?
Oh, thanks for the personal attacks, Eddie. And a mean nickname to boot. Yeah, that’s awesome. Cool.
faust was questioning my e vs. chicken thought process and seemed to get annoyed that I wouldn’t move my vote.I am not annoyed that you don't change your vote, I am annoyed that you refuse to answer my question.
faust was questioning my e vs. chicken thought process and seemed to get annoyed that I wouldn’t move my vote.I am not annoyed that you don't change your vote, I am annoyed that you refuse to answer my question.
faust was questioning my e vs. chicken thought process and seemed to get annoyed that I wouldn’t move my vote.I am not annoyed that you don't change your vote, I am annoyed that you refuse to answer my question.
My preference is for a lynch. I’m voting for chicken and have been for awhile. So, at present he’s my preference but I can’t say that I feel strongly about it. (My thoughts about him have lots of “seems” and “feels”) If there is no critical mass there in the next 20 hours, then e or MiX. I can’t really see voting for someone outside that list today.
My scale is severely tipped towards scum; glooble and Uncle are my two singular townreads.
What that mini-reread of D2 made me realize is that faust actually thinks Awaclus' vote on Robz is scummy because it locked in the lynch...which is just weird.
That's literally exactly what you did (blame the person who locked in the Robz vote) except you think that belongs to a different person. This is THE MOST opportunistic shift I could imagine. Like, you just rewrote the book on scum-deflection/fake-reason-giving.
Vote: Mix
faust was questioning my e vs. chicken thought process and seemed to get annoyed that I wouldn’t move my vote.I am not annoyed that you don't change your vote, I am annoyed that you refuse to answer my question.
It's fine for me if people don't want to answer questions, but then they should say so.faust was questioning my e vs. chicken thought process and seemed to get annoyed that I wouldn’t move my vote.I am not annoyed that you don't change your vote, I am annoyed that you refuse to answer my question.
Wasn't your mantra last game that individual players get to decide when to answer questions directed at them? I specifically remember you calling me out for having scumreads for failure to answer questions. Why do you feel differently this game?
Guys, I think I’m winning.Already missed out on mcmc and shraeye though. You should go grab DatSwan while you still can.
A quick reread on D2 tells me literally no one was townreading me other than E. Which means I was right, shraeye not telling E to scumread me could be a partner tell. Or not, I wouldn't put too much into this. But I think it removes that part from raerae's case on me.
I'm available at deadline. Who else?
A quick reread on D2 tells me literally no one was townreading me other than E. Which means I was right, shraeye not telling E to scumread me could be a partner tell. Or not, I wouldn't put too much into this. But I think it removes that part from raerae's case on me.
I'm available at deadline. Who else?
Why single out e? shraeye didn't tell anybody to scumread you.
A quick reread on D2 tells me literally no one was townreading me other than E. Which means I was right, shraeye not telling E to scumread me could be a partner tell. Or not, I wouldn't put too much into this. But I think it removes that part from raerae's case on me.
I'm available at deadline. Who else?
Why single out e? shraeye didn't tell anybody to scumread you.
No one else was townreading me, so there wasn't really an opportunity for shraeye to say I'm scummy.
A quick reread on D2 tells me literally no one was townreading me other than E. Which means I was right, shraeye not telling E to scumread me could be a partner tell. Or not, I wouldn't put too much into this. But I think it removes that part from raerae's case on me.
I'm available at deadline. Who else?
Why single out e? shraeye didn't tell anybody to scumread you.
No one else was townreading me, so there wasn't really an opportunity for shraeye to say I'm scummy.
There was lots of opportunity, there were plenty of people not voting for you.
Space/MiX, could you two summarize the e case for me?
-- not super-strong evidence by any stretch of the imagination, but it was the first thing I thought when I read what e had written too.One thing, you can call me scum (and be incorrect) just don't call me scum on the same team as shraeye.Classic "You're finding me scummy for the wrong reasons!"
I am suspicious Space's defense of MiX but I can't exactly put my finger on why right at this second (phones are great and terrible all at the same time).Did you mean Space? Did I miss this post?
Pretty sure I did and pretty sure there were two. I'll see what I can find in the bigger am hours.
Did you ever talk about this again? Sure shraeye died but the confusion stands.
What are you feeling confused about, exactly?
And now, @chicken, what are your scumreads? And what do you think of Space and EFHW?
Currently doing some thinking and re-reading, but I thought I'd share this: it's the complement of my other list: this time I'm listing each living player, and all the other players (alive or dead) for whom they've voted.
Chickenwarlord (3): MiX, Robz888, Awaclus
Honestly thinking about shifting my vote here, but weighing it against how awful it will make me look if E! flips town.Factoring that into your votes is what makes you look bad, not lynching townie.
There are other reasons - none the least of which is sheeping your lead last time ended poorly for town.Honestly thinking about shifting my vote here, but weighing it against how awful it will make me look if E! flips town.Factoring that into your votes is what makes you look bad, not lynching townie.
@MiX, I'm still interested in reading your response to what you thought the confusion was here, and why it was relevant to dredge it up again at this point.
There are other reasons - none the least of which is sheeping your lead last time ended poorly for town.Honestly thinking about shifting my vote here, but weighing it against how awful it will make me look if E! flips town.Factoring that into your votes is what makes you look bad, not lynching townie.
Fine, Vote: EUnannounced L-1.
Fine, Vote: E
Past performance is not an indicator of future results!There are other reasons - none the least of which is sheeping your lead last time ended poorly for town.Honestly thinking about shifting my vote here, but weighing it against how awful it will make me look if E! flips town.Factoring that into your votes is what makes you look bad, not lynching townie.
Past performance is not an indicator of future results!There are other reasons - none the least of which is sheeping your lead last time ended poorly for town.Honestly thinking about shifting my vote here, but weighing it against how awful it will make me look if E! flips town.Factoring that into your votes is what makes you look bad, not lynching townie.
Good morning, folks!
Joth, the flavor is awesome and made me laugh.
We’re at L-1? With Ash intent to hammer? I’ll hammer if he doesn’t. So another intent.
It seems like e should have had more to say in the last few days about the situation. Let’s give him a minute though in case there is more to learn. Deadline is 5 hours away, I think.
*sigh*
So what exactly was the point in waiting?
So.... massclaim?
Sorry MiX.
Mainly. Though going forwrad it will also be important for LyLo situations to know who the Loved/Doublevoter people are. Maybe we don't want to out Cops yet? I'm not sure. But if the MU Cop has found anything, they should 100% come forward, otherwise we're screwed.So.... massclaim?
Sorry MiX.
Is this just for cops? Not seeing a huge perk otherwise.
Also, whad I miss about MiX?He complained that he never got the first post at Day start. I ninja'd him twice.
So.... massclaim?
Sorry MiX.
we Shouldn’t need a dictator.
I think I would order by role, not player.we Shouldn’t need a dictator.
Okay, then who claims first? Claims are so trivial I don't see the downside of letting faust say the order, I trust him. What's your alternative then?
Not claiming till people all weigh in and not placing unwarranted trust on Faust....
Not claiming till people all weigh in and not placing unwarranted trust on Faust....
I agree with massclaim...and I kinda want faust to dictate it. But that was before Nog flipped, not so sure now.Surely chicken dying would make me more townie, not less...?
I'm just saying, you withholding your claim doesn't scare me too much.Not claiming till people all weigh in and not placing unwarranted trust on Faust....
*shrugs* that’s my alternative.
I agree with massclaim...and I kinda want faust to dictate it. But that was before Nog flipped, not so sure now.Surely chicken dying would make me more townie, not less...?
The order doesn't really matter much. We don't have any action investigators or role blockers to catch someone lying.We may have a Bus Driver.
So, I think the first order of business should be that Elim Garak claims.
What results?So, I think the first order of business should be that Elim Garak claims.
But not results, right?
What results?So, I think the first order of business should be that Elim Garak claims.
But not results, right?
No, they should claim everything.What results?So, I think the first order of business should be that Elim Garak claims.
But not results, right?
The...the targets for bus drive in each potencial night. Say, if I drived N1 targets were X and Y, if N2 targets A and B etc. And of course he shouldn't say when he did it untill it matters in case he didn't do it at all.
Chicken being Ferengi explains some of his difference in play bewtween D2 and D3.Tell me more about that difference.
What results?So, I think the first order of business should be that Elim Garak claims.
But not results, right?
The...the targets for bus drive in each potencial night. Say, if I drived N1 targets were X and Y, if N2 targets A and B etc. And of course he shouldn't say when he did it untill it matters in case he didn't do it at all.
Plus the neighborhood flips make you look worse.Why?
Vote: MiX
Faust is on my suspicion list too. I'm cool with ash and UncleEddie. I don't have any feelings about claiming.
Vote: MiX
Faust is on my suspicion list too. I'm cool with ash and UncleEddie. I don't have any feelings about claiming.
Yeah, yeah, you exist. I don't think we should say our reads before claiming but that vote's obvious.
Vote: MiX
Faust is on my suspicion list too. I'm cool with ash and UncleEddie. I don't have any feelings about claiming.
Yeah, yeah, you exist. I don't think we should say our reads before claiming but that vote's obvious.
I'm sorry, I'm not going to obey faust's every whim because you nominated him King of the thread. I didn't vote for him and I'll do what I want.
It’s officially “faust has been alive too long to be town” time.
I'm sorry, I'm not going to obey faust's every whim because you nominated him King of the thread. I didn't vote for him and I'll do what I want.Oh but you did:
Vote: faust
So, I think the first order of business should be that Elim Garak claims.I'm good with that.
I'm sorry, I'm not going to obey faust's every whim because you nominated him King of the thread. I didn't vote for him and I'll do what I want.Oh but you did:Vote: faust
Yes, that vote was absolutely for king of the thread elections. You didn't realize what you were voting for at the time? Well something something Brexit referendum.
Well time for some calculations.
Considering we know that neither SK nor MU have flipped so far, from a townie's POV (assuming all lynches and kills are random with the exception of no in-team NKs) probabilities are like this:
Maquis + SK: 66.14%
Maquis + MU: 33.86%
So... still very much possible that we have a bunch of scum.
Knowledge that you are a townie and have not been killed factors into things like "how likely was it that there was a D1 lynch that wasn't SK"? From an outside perspective, assuming there is an SK, that's 17/18. If you do it conditional on knowing you were not the lynch target, it's 16/17.Well time for some calculations.
Considering we know that neither SK nor MU have flipped so far, from a townie's POV (assuming all lynches and kills are random with the exception of no in-team NKs) probabilities are like this:
Maquis + SK: 66.14%
Maquis + MU: 33.86%
So... still very much possible that we have a bunch of scum.
Why do these numbers depend on having a townie's PoV? Would a Maquis point of view make a difference to your calculation?
My numbers would be the same either way, but I still get a slight difference (64% chance of SK) compared to you, so I'd still like to know what you're doing differently.
Do they numbers really help you scumhunt? (I can't tell if I'm annoyed or genuinely curious right now so take it how you will.)Not really, I just do them for fun. It is nice to get a sense of how much we should worry about a second team, but in practice it probably does not change too much for our play today.
Do they numbers really help you scumhunt? (I can't tell if I'm annoyed or genuinely curious right now so take it how you will.)
@Space, Didds, and EFHW: Me vs MiX, is it town v town, scum v scum, or town v scum?
Vote: MiX
Faust is on my suspicion list too. I'm cool with ash and UncleEddie. I don't have any feelings about claiming.
@Space, Didds, and EFHW: Me vs MiX, is it town v town, scum v scum, or town v scum?I'm curious, why us and how would this help?
@Space, Didds, and EFHW: Me vs MiX, is it town v town, scum v scum, or town v scum?I'm curious, why us and how would this help?
Welcome
Please don't guess.@Space, Didds, and EFHW: Me vs MiX, is it town v town, scum v scum, or town v scum?I'm curious, why us and how would this help?
I have a guess...
We need to be debating if and when we're going to lynch Uncleeurope before deciding whether or not we massclaim I think. If we're going to lynch him for tactical reasons, massclaiming today is purely counterproductive.
There is no reason we have to massclaim at the start of the day if we're going to do it, especially in this setup, assuming cops would have outed on a guilty result, claims don't affect the chances of anyone being town. They only matter because of POE from cop clears and scum not being able to claim more convenient results later on.
Please don't guess.@Space, Didds, and EFHW: Me vs MiX, is it town v town, scum v scum, or town v scum?I'm curious, why us and how would this help?
I have a guess...
COMMUTER SHOULD NOT CLAIM WHETHER OR NOT THEY'VE USED THEIR SHOT YET! if we claim.
We need to be debating if and when we're going to lynch Uncleeurope before deciding whether or not we massclaim I think. If we're going to lynch him for tactical reasons, massclaiming today is purely counterproductive.
There is no reason we have to massclaim at the start of the day if we're going to do it, especially in this setup, assuming cops would have outed on a guilty result, claims don't affect the chances of anyone being town. They only matter because of POE from cop clears and scum not being able to claim more convenient results later on.
So people who have played with Swan more than I have, as an Even-night SK cop, is there any chance he wouldn't out himself if he had a guilty on Day 3?
It would be a misplay, but is there any chance he doesn't realize it would have been a misplay?
Jeez, chicken's dead, you don't need to yell at town like that. Of course everyone should assume commuter never commuted since we've always had 2 kills and all vigs are dead.
Jeez, chicken's dead, you don't need to yell at town like that. Of course everyone should assume commuter never commuted since we've always had 2 kills and all vigs are dead.
Proving my point.
Jeez, chicken's dead, you don't need to yell at town like that. Of course everyone should assume commuter never commuted since we've always had 2 kills and all vigs are dead.
Proving my point.
I suppose. But you didn't have to yell.
Why so anxious for Garak to claim?
Why so anxious for Garak to claim?
I feel like I shouldn't say my reads before it.
Why so anxious for Garak to claim?
I feel like I shouldn't say my reads before it.
Why do you (not faust) think Garak should be the first role to claim?
Vote: MiX
Faust is on my suspicion list too. I'm cool with ash and UncleEddie. I don't have any feelings about claiming.
Suddenly I am an acceptable lynch? Ya liah.
When did your opinion flip of me?
@Space, Didds, and EFHW: Me vs MiX, is it town v town, scum v scum, or town v scum?I'm curious, why us and how would this help?
Glooble/Joth: If a cop is redirected by Garak, do they get "Your target is/is not Maquis/Mirror Universe/Changeling" or do they get "NAME is/is not Maquis/Mirror Universe/Changeling?"
And if the second, would the name be the correct name of who they actually targeted after the bun drive, or the name of the player they thought they targeted?
We should organize a bun drive before we decide on a lunch.
We should organize a bun drive before we decide on a lunch.
I don't have a strong feeling at all to help answer that question. I'm noticing you asked the other three female players.@Space, Didds, and EFHW: Me vs MiX, is it town v town, scum v scum, or town v scum?I'm curious, why us and how would this help?
You think it's going to hurt to give your opinions on this matter?
COMMUTER SHOULD NOT CLAIM WHETHER OR NOT THEY'VE USED THEIR SHOT YET! if we claim.Calm down mister.
We need to be debating if and when we're going to lynch Uncleeurope before deciding whether or not we massclaim I think. If we're going to lynch him for tactical reasons, massclaiming today is purely counterproductive.Making that decision not knowing the number of scums seems difficult.
I don't have a strong feeling at all to help answer that question. I'm noticing you asked the other three female players.@Space, Didds, and EFHW: Me vs MiX, is it town v town, scum v scum, or town v scum?I'm curious, why us and how would this help?
You think it's going to hurt to give your opinions on this matter?
COMMUTER SHOULD NOT CLAIM WHETHER OR NOT THEY'VE USED THEIR SHOT YET! if we claim.Calm down mister.
I don't have a strong feeling at all to help answer that question. I'm noticing you asked the other three female players.@Space, Didds, and EFHW: Me vs MiX, is it town v town, scum v scum, or town v scum?I'm curious, why us and how would this help?
You think it's going to hurt to give your opinions on this matter?
I don't have a strong feeling at all to help answer that question. I'm noticing you asked the other three female players.@Space, Didds, and EFHW: Me vs MiX, is it town v town, scum v scum, or town v scum?I'm curious, why us and how would this help?
You think it's going to hurt to give your opinions on this matter?
That didn't have anything to do with who I asked, for whatever that's worth.
You are me. I am you. Together we'll drive another mislynch! Let's go!
I don't have a strong feeling at all to help answer that question. I'm noticing you asked the other three female players.@Space, Didds, and EFHW: Me vs MiX, is it town v town, scum v scum, or town v scum?I'm curious, why us and how would this help?
You think it's going to hurt to give your opinions on this matter?
That didn't have anything to do with who I asked, for whatever that's worth.
Vote: UoS
Ok, that's good. Basically, I don't agree with your MiX theory, which I already said yesterday.I don't have a strong feeling at all to help answer that question. I'm noticing you asked the other three female players.@Space, Didds, and EFHW: Me vs MiX, is it town v town, scum v scum, or town v scum?I'm curious, why us and how would this help?
You think it's going to hurt to give your opinions on this matter?
That didn't have anything to do with who I asked, for whatever that's worth.
I don't have a strong feeling at all to help answer that question. I'm noticing you asked the other three female players.
That didn't have anything to do with who I asked, for whatever that's worth.
Vote: UoS
That is hands down the weirdest quote to vote I've ever seen.
Ok, that's good. Basically, I don't agree with your MiX theory, which I already said yesterday.I don't have a strong feeling at all to help answer that question. I'm noticing you asked the other three female players.@Space, Didds, and EFHW: Me vs MiX, is it town v town, scum v scum, or town v scum?I'm curious, why us and how would this help?
You think it's going to hurt to give your opinions on this matter?
That didn't have anything to do with who I asked, for whatever that's worth.
Ok, that's good. Basically, I don't agree with your MiX theory, which I already said yesterday.I don't have a strong feeling at all to help answer that question. I'm noticing you asked the other three female players.@Space, Didds, and EFHW: Me vs MiX, is it town v town, scum v scum, or town v scum?I'm curious, why us and how would this help?
You think it's going to hurt to give your opinions on this matter?
That didn't have anything to do with who I asked, for whatever that's worth.
Ok, that's good. Basically, I don't agree with your MiX theory, which I already said yesterday.I don't have a strong feeling at all to help answer that question. I'm noticing you asked the other three female players.@Space, Didds, and EFHW: Me vs MiX, is it town v town, scum v scum, or town v scum?I'm curious, why us and how would this help?
You think it's going to hurt to give your opinions on this matter?
That didn't have anything to do with who I asked, for whatever that's worth.
Will you answer the question? If so, when?
PPE 1: Okay, okay, I should let raerae do this.
You are me. I am you. Together we'll drive another mislynch! Let's go!
This rings remotely of the Barney theme song...
This is the third or fourth thing already today that you have presented as obvious without explaining.I don't have a strong feeling at all to help answer that question. I'm noticing you asked the other three female players.
That didn't have anything to do with who I asked, for whatever that's worth.
Vote: UoS
That is hands down the weirdest quote to vote I've ever seen.
Really? It's so obvious why I voted I except everyone to come crashing down at me for this. I'm ready.
You are me. I am you. Together we'll drive another mislynch! Let's go!
This rings remotely of the Barney theme song...
I am you, you are me,
Time to Mislynch bli-indly
With a great big vote,
Faust is our only town
Won’t you say you are me too?
You are me. I am you. Together we'll drive another mislynch! Let's go!
This rings remotely of the Barney theme song...
I am you, you are me,
Time to Mislynch bli-indly
With a great big vote,
Faust is our only town
Won’t you say you are me too?
Honestly can't tell if I like you more or less now.
Ok, that's good. Basically, I don't agree with your MiX theory, which I already said yesterday.
Will you answer the question? If so, when?
PPE 1: Okay, okay, I should let raerae do this.
Naw, I'll let you play too. Are we town v town, scum v scum, or town v scum? You got any theories as to why I asked those three? (Spoilers: Your last theory was wrong.)
This is the third or fourth thing already today that you have presented as obvious without explaining.Vote: UoS
That is hands down the weirdest quote to vote I've ever seen.
Really? It's so obvious why I voted I except everyone to come crashing down at me for this. I'm ready.
I am you, you are me,
Time to Mislynch bli-indly
With a great big vote,
Faust is our only town
Won’t you say you are me too?
Honestly can't tell if I like you more or less now.
Same.
Glooble/Joth: If a cop is redirected by Garak, do they get "Your target is/is not Maquis/Mirror Universe/Changeling" or do they get "NAME is/is not Maquis/Mirror Universe/Changeling?"
And if the second, would the name be the correct name of who they actually targeted after the bun drive, or the name of the player they thought they targeted?
You are me. I am you. Together we'll drive another mislynch! Let's go!The funniest thing is that your name is literally my RL name with a vowel exchanged.
raerae, how surprised are you to still be alive?
raerae, how surprised are you to still be alive?
I don't have a strong feeling at all to help answer that question. I'm noticing you asked the other three female players.@Space, Didds, and EFHW: Me vs MiX, is it town v town, scum v scum, or town v scum?I'm curious, why us and how would this help?
You think it's going to hurt to give your opinions on this matter?
That didn't have anything to do with who I asked, for whatever that's worth.
Vote: UoS
Also, can you post the current likelihood percentage for faust being scum IF there is scum in the neighborhood this game?I can tell you that: 100%
SA, did you post the percentages for how likely it is for scum to be in the neighborhood?Thinking about this post some more, it seems clear that your scum read on me is based on a misunderstanding of probability. But since you won't listen to me, I'll leave this to Space.
Also, can you post the current likelihood percentage for faust being scum IF there is scum in the neighborhood this game?
Mildly. She's an active participant in the game, more so than DatSwan and certainly more than chicken, and has not received much scrutiny so far.raerae, how surprised are you to still be alive?
faust, how surprised are you that raerae is still alive?
Also, can you post the current likelihood percentage for faust being scum IF there is scum in the neighborhood this game?I can tell you that: 100%
What do we do now that the claiming thing didn't happen?We should still force a claim. Scum Cops have too strong an incentive not to claim. Elim Garak is scummy for refusing to claim. We need to know who the Loved/Doublevoters are. Did anyone actually make an argument against claiming beyond "I'm opposed to anything faust suggests"?
SA, did you post the percentages for how likely it is for scum to be in the neighborhood?
Also, can you post the current likelihood percentage for faust being scum IF there is scum in the neighborhood this game?
What is the incentive for scum cops not to claim? I did in fact post a specific objection to claiming based on protecting the cops. You are saying the opposite here, so I would like to know your reasoning.What do we do now that the claiming thing didn't happen?We should still force a claim. Scum Cops have too strong an incentive not to claim. Elim Garak is scummy for refusing to claim. We need to know who the Loved/Doublevoters are. Did anyone actually make an argument against claiming beyond "I'm opposed to anything faust suggests"?
I was opposed to you being granted sole custody of claim order randomly.Barely acknowledged what?
The claiming thing I am uncertain on.
The fact that, like, barely anyone acknowledged it is weird.
Okay, a few questions for the group:This post reads scummy to me. Multiball weakens the scumminess, but why is Eddie suddenly newb!helpless?
How does town proceed in a 3v2v4 scenario?
How does town proceed in a 2v1v6 scenario? (Obviously a much happier situation)
This is literally my first game with multiple baddie teams (yup, using the word team because saying scum sides doesn't feel right to me). And I don't know, (or care to deduce for myself, honestly) what the next steps should be to ensure town's survival.
What do we do now that the claiming thing didn't happen?
Shraeye was Bariel.
I'm not averse to claiming but what are we going to do with that information once it's out? Say Ash is Worf, do we lunch him on the spot? It feels weird to just have that information with no contingency plan.Why would you lynch Worf at all? If you mean Garak, then I'd say yes, lynch them.
I'm not averse to claiming but what are we going to do with that information once it's out? Say Ash is Worf, do we lunch him on the spot? It feels weird to just have that information with no contingency plan.Why would you lynch Worf at all? If you mean Garak, then I'd say yes, lynch them.
I want to do the claim with the purpose of lynching Garak.I'm not averse to claiming but what are we going to do with that information once it's out? Say Ash is Worf, do we lunch him on the spot? It feels weird to just have that information with no contingency plan.Why would you lynch Worf at all? If you mean Garak, then I'd say yes, lynch them.
I was just pulling names out, not making suggestions.
Make that 45% and 27%.
So is the mass claim necessary? Couldn't that person come forward with their best reason for why they haven't used the lightening rod power yet then we decide if they're lying or not?Sure, but they haven't.
Again, I'm cool with claiming but want to understand next steps.
Look at that! I considered it but wasn't sure.Make that 45% and 27%.
Yeah, those I agree with. Note that they're precisely 100%-x, where x is either of the two percentage chances I posted of there being at least one scum in the group in either scenario.
So is the mass claim necessary? Couldn't that person come forward with their best reason for why they haven't used the lightening rod power yet then we decide if they're lying or not?Sure, but they haven't.
Again, I'm cool with claiming but want to understand next steps.
So is the mass claim necessary? Couldn't that person come forward with their best reason for why they haven't used the lightening rod power yet then we decide if they're lying or not?Sure, but they haven't.
Again, I'm cool with claiming but want to understand next steps.
Fair enough. You want to set the claim order?
Garak is almost certainly scum here. Town!Garak would have chosen lightning rod and would most likely have used it by now.
So is the mass claim necessary? Couldn't that person come forward with their best reason for why they haven't used the lightening rod power yet then we decide if they're lying or not?Sure, but they haven't.
Again, I'm cool with claiming but want to understand next steps.
Fair enough. You want to set the claim order?
The only person that should set any claim order is faust or raerae. Or me, but I doubt anyone will agree to that.Garak is almost certainly scum here. Town!Garak would have chosen lightning rod and would most likely have used it by now.
Why would town!Garak have used lightning rod? Genually confused. Although I do agree Garak seems like scum, there's also one other possibility (well, two, if you think town would've used rod) that you're missing. But I'm still down for a Garak claim. Who hasn't talked about it yet?
PPE 1: Swap yourself with raerae and it's not the worst order...
SA, did you post the percentages for how likely it is for scum to be in the neighborhood?
For the SK+Maq scenario, there was a 55% chance of at least one scum in the neighbourhood at the start of the game, and a 45% chance of exactly one.
For the MU+Maq scenario, there was a 73% chance of at least one scum in the neighbourhood at the start of the game, and a 49% chance of exactly one.
Note that these are prior probabilities, meaning that we expect to have to update them as new information (e.g. flips) come into play. Also note that the chance of faust rolling scum is independent of the fact that he's in the neighbourhood. So it would be totally incorrect to conclude that since there was a >55% chance of there being a scum in the neighbourhood to start with, and now faust is the only possible non-scum left, that he will automatically have a >55% chance of being scum. That would be bad logic.Also, can you post the current likelihood percentage for faust being scum IF there is scum in the neighborhood this game?
As faust says, it's 100%, because he's the only neighbour not to have flipped town already, so if there was a scum in the neighbourhood, it must have been him.
It is possible that some interaction with him being in the neighbourhood will have had an effect on game-play up to this point such that scum-neighbour!faust is more likely to have survived this long that town-neighbour!faust, thus breaking the independence, but that's all tied up in the part of gameplay that I can't model so well.
Also, faust had a point yesterday about the fact that we can be sure he's not the SK. That actually means that from the naive townie point of view, he's very slightly less likely to be scum on average than any of the rest of you. However, reads and gameplay ought to modulate that...
Ok, but people can reasonably object to my being the one to do it. I would suggest
UoS
ashersky
MiX
Didds
raerae
Space
EFHW
But we could also consider stopping if we find Garak early.
That town!LR plan doesn't work because it makes the cop useless, so no point in protecting them.
The reason I hate probability is that it appears to mess with reality.
You are basically telling me that even if faust rolled scum this game, the chances he rolled scum this game went down, even if he in actuality rolled scum.
I would like to believe that if faust rolled scum this game, the chance that he rolled scum is 100%.
It took a few years, but someone on f.ds finally explained Monty Hall to me, so I assume this one is also doable.
That town!LR plan doesn't work because it makes the cop useless, so no point in protecting them.
How pray tell would protecting a cop render them useless? Bus drivers are roleblockers.
Well if a scum Cop claims, they're going to get NKed by the other scum. Losing a member of their team is much worse for scum than it would be for town.What is the incentive for scum cops not to claim? I did in fact post a specific objection to claiming based on protecting the cops. You are saying the opposite here, so I would like to know your reasoning.What do we do now that the claiming thing didn't happen?We should still force a claim. Scum Cops have too strong an incentive not to claim. Elim Garak is scummy for refusing to claim. We need to know who the Loved/Doublevoters are. Did anyone actually make an argument against claiming beyond "I'm opposed to anything faust suggests"?
Lightning rod would redirect their investigation from their target to the LR. Bus driving could work, at the risk of hitting someone else valuable like town!Morn or the other cop.That town!LR plan doesn't work because it makes the cop useless, so no point in protecting them.
How pray tell would protecting a cop render them useless? Bus drivers are roleblockers.
OkWell if a scum Cop claims, they're going to get NKed by the other scum. Losing a member of their team is much worse for scum than it would be for town.What is the incentive for scum cops not to claim? I did in fact post a specific objection to claiming based on protecting the cops. You are saying the opposite here, so I would like to know your reasoning.What do we do now that the claiming thing didn't happen?We should still force a claim. Scum Cops have too strong an incentive not to claim. Elim Garak is scummy for refusing to claim. We need to know who the Loved/Doublevoters are. Did anyone actually make an argument against claiming beyond "I'm opposed to anything faust suggests"?
I'm curious about the fact that faust has been pushing the idea that we need to know who Morn and Kai Winn are, but not Dax, who also messes with town's ability to lynch effectively.Well Dax has some value unclaimed as they might soak up a scum NK, so it's less clear that we want to out them.
This is another reason to stop when we hit Garak. Are you ok with the claim order?I'm curious about the fact that faust has been pushing the idea that we need to know who Morn and Kai Winn are, but not Dax, who also messes with town's ability to lynch effectively.Well Dax has some value unclaimed as they might soak up a scum NK, so it's less clear that we want to out them.
I'm fine though I think it may be best to just give everyone a chance to post and say whether they are Garak before we start.This is another reason to stop when we hit Garak. Are you ok with the claim order?I'm curious about the fact that faust has been pushing the idea that we need to know who Morn and Kai Winn are, but not Dax, who also messes with town's ability to lynch effectively.Well Dax has some value unclaimed as they might soak up a scum NK, so it's less clear that we want to out them.
I'm fine though I think it may be best to just give everyone a chance to post and say whether they are Garak before we start.This is another reason to stop when we hit Garak. Are you ok with the claim order?I'm curious about the fact that faust has been pushing the idea that we need to know who Morn and Kai Winn are, but not Dax, who also messes with town's ability to lynch effectively.Well Dax has some value unclaimed as they might soak up a scum NK, so it's less clear that we want to out them.
I don't have a strong feeling at all to help answer that question. I'm noticing you asked the other three female players.@Space, Didds, and EFHW: Me vs MiX, is it town v town, scum v scum, or town v scum?I'm curious, why us and how would this help?
You think it's going to hurt to give your opinions on this matter?
That didn't have anything to do with who I asked, for whatever that's worth.
Vote: UoS
Wait, is it because UoS is the person I haven't expressed a read on/one of the three I mentioned above? And, if so, do you think he's my partner? And, if so, doesn't that mean you don't actually think we (you and I) are town v town?
Okay, a few questions for the group:This post reads scummy to me. Multiball weakens the scumminess, but why is Eddie suddenly newb!helpless?
How does town proceed in a 3v2v4 scenario?
How does town proceed in a 2v1v6 scenario? (Obviously a much happier situation)
This is literally my first game with multiple baddie teams (yup, using the word team because saying scum sides doesn't feel right to me). And I don't know, (or care to deduce for myself, honestly) what the next steps should be to ensure town's survival.
What do we do now that the claiming thing didn't happen?
Vote: UoS
Wait, is it because UoS is the person I haven't expressed a read on/one of the three I mentioned above? And, if so, do you think he's my partner? And, if so, doesn't that mean you don't actually think we (you and I) are town v town?
@MiX, care to comment?
Vote: UoS
Wait, is it because UoS is the person I haven't expressed a read on/one of the three I mentioned above? And, if so, do you think he's my partner? And, if so, doesn't that mean you don't actually think we (you and I) are town v town?
@MiX, care to comment?
It is indeed because UoS was the only person you hadn't talked about this day. No, of course I don't believe he's your partner, as I believe you are town, as I've previously said. To be honest, it's weird that you think that I would be scumreading you after I said I'm townreading you...
Are we doing the Garak claim? Are we not doing the Garak claim? I am honestly confused at this point. UoS' first on EFHW's list, right? Should we wait for him?
Vote: UoS
Wait, is it because UoS is the person I haven't expressed a read on/one of the three I mentioned above? And, if so, do you think he's my partner? And, if so, doesn't that mean you don't actually think we (you and I) are town v town?
@MiX, care to comment?
It is indeed because UoS was the only person you hadn't talked about this day. No, of course I don't believe he's your partner, as I believe you are town, as I've previously said. To be honest, it's weird that you think that I would be scumreading you after I said I'm townreading you...
Are we doing the Garak claim? Are we not doing the Garak claim? I am honestly confused at this point. UoS' first on EFHW's list, right? Should we wait for him?
But how does me not discussing him mean he's scum? The only way that works is if you think I'm scum.
Vote: MiX
Whew, almost didn't feel like myself not having voted for anyone yet. Crisis averted.
And WCD, right?
And WCD, right?
AKA Wasn't WCD on that e Wagon in question?
You just said that the only person on the wagon who hasn’t flipped is EFHW, but WCD was on it too.
Are you WCD’s partner? Is that what your hunch is?
COMMUTER SHOULD NOT CLAIM WHETHER OR NOT THEY'VE USED THEIR SHOT YET! if we claim.
Jeez, chicken's dead, you don't need to yell at town like that. Of course everyone should assume commuter never commuted since we've always had 2 kills and all vigs are dead.
COMMUTER SHOULD NOT CLAIM WHETHER OR NOT THEY'VE USED THEIR SHOT YET! if we claim.
Jeez, chicken's dead, you don't need to yell at town like that. Of course everyone should assume commuter never commuted since we've always had 2 kills and all vigs are dead.
Can't forget about this commuter fishing trip he took.
Can we put off claiming and just lynch MiX today?
Vote: EFHW, I think we should all adress the elephant in the room that says that the E wagon in D1 had at least 1 scum and the only player who hasn't flipped is EFHW. Sadly I didn't actually get to do an EFHW reread...or any rereads. I hope I'll be more useful this weekend, I got lazy today but maybe I won't tomorrow.
Vote: EFHW, I think we should all adress the elephant in the room that says that the E wagon in D1 had at least 1 scum and the only player who hasn't flipped is EFHW. Sadly I didn't actually get to do an EFHW reread...or any rereads. I hope I'll be more useful this weekend, I got lazy today but maybe I won't tomorrow.
How is that an elephant? It's been talked to death. I find it a very weak argument or I'd be voting Didds right now.
Why is EFHW in charge of anything?
Why would we lynch Garak? If I am Garak, I'd have held on to my shot and used it as Bus Driver, early lightning rod is anti-town, it ruins the cop results at the benefit of soaking one kill.
There are 2 players scum don't want to shoot, and if doublevoter isn't scum they're a high priority target, along with the relevant cop.
No matter who is in charge I am going to be upset about it in all honestly.
Why is EFHW in charge of anything?
Why would we lynch Garak? If I am Garak, I'd have held on to my shot and used it as Bus Driver, early lightning rod is anti-town, it ruins the cop results at the benefit of soaking one kill.
There are 2 players scum don't want to shoot, and if doublevoter isn't scum they're a high priority target, along with the relevant cop.
This probability talk is stupid, the odds of faust being scum neighbor are exactly the odds of faust being scum. Neighborhood is irrelevant.
Why is EFHW in charge of anything?
Why would we lynch Garak? If I am Garak, I'd have held on to my shot and used it as Bus Driver, early lightning rod is anti-town, it ruins the cop results at the benefit of soaking one kill.
There are 2 players scum don't want to shoot, and if doublevoter isn't scum they're a high priority target, along with the relevant cop.
EFHW is as good as anybody when nobody is universally considered conf!town, don't you think? And she invited anybody to discuss the proposed claim order.
Say we don't claim, how do you suggest moving forward today?
By lynching who we think is most likely to be scum? I'm seeing downsides to claiming and not a lot of upside. Why do you think we need to claim to move forward?
And I'm torn between voting EFHW and MiX right now, so yeah not really liking them being in charge. I'd be happier with faust, at least he's not SK because of the neighborhood info thing.
So no, she's not as good as anybody. It's weirder how everyone, particularly MiX, is suddenly so in love with deferring judgement to people.
Wrong. This has nothing to do with the prior likelihood of the neighborhood containing scum, which is what I was complaining about. There was a lot of math and fury signifying nothing.This probability talk is stupid, the odds of faust being scum neighbor are exactly the odds of faust being scum. Neighborhood is irrelevant.
Wrong: faust can't be SK, so he's less likely to be scum. It's very minor, but true.
Why do you think I would believe this?By lynching who we think is most likely to be scum? I'm seeing downsides to claiming and not a lot of upside. Why do you think we need to claim to move forward?
And I'm torn between voting EFHW and MiX right now, so yeah not really liking them being in charge. I'd be happier with faust, at least he's not SK because of the neighborhood info thing.
So no, she's not as good as anybody. It's weirder how everyone, particularly MiX, is suddenly so in love with deferring judgement to people.
Do you believe one of (EFHW, MiX) is scum beyond a shadow of doubt?
Why do you think I would believe this?By lynching who we think is most likely to be scum? I'm seeing downsides to claiming and not a lot of upside. Why do you think we need to claim to move forward?
And I'm torn between voting EFHW and MiX right now, so yeah not really liking them being in charge. I'd be happier with faust, at least he's not SK because of the neighborhood info thing.
So no, she's not as good as anybody. It's weirder how everyone, particularly MiX, is suddenly so in love with deferring judgement to people.
Do you believe one of (EFHW, MiX) is scum beyond a shadow of doubt?
Also, seriously raerae, why do we need to claim to move the day forward? Like we've had other days in the game where we lynched people without massclaiming haven't we?Yep. Those have gone splendidly.
By lynching who we think is most likely to be scum? I'm seeing downsides to claiming and not a lot of upside. Why do you think we need to claim to move forward?
And I'm torn between voting EFHW and MiX right now, so yeah not really liking them being in charge. I'd be happier with faust, at least he's not SK because of the neighborhood info thing.
So no, she's not as good as anybody. It's weirder how everyone, particularly MiX, is suddenly so in love with deferring judgement to people.
Is there any merit to everyone posting reads of everyone else?
Is the plan to popcorn players or roles?
By lynching who we think is most likely to be scum? I'm seeing downsides to claiming and not a lot of upside. Why do you think we need to claim to move forward?
And I'm torn between voting EFHW and MiX right now, so yeah not really liking them being in charge. I'd be happier with faust, at least he's not SK because of the neighborhood info thing.
So no, she's not as good as anybody. It's weirder how everyone, particularly MiX, is suddenly so in love with deferring judgement to people.
I'm super game to just lunch MiX but it seemed like most people were game for claiming until Ash swooped in and said it was anti-town. Re: claiming order, I LOVE the idea of popcorn and am not sure why I've never seen that. If we claim I absolutely vote for popcorn. What's the argument for EFHW other than vote analysis? Because I'm not buying the whole "there had to be scum on a D1 wagon" arguments, especially not after the last game.
Is there any merit to everyone posting reads of everyone else?
Is the plan to popcorn players or roles?
Roles, says I. But we can still just lunch MiX and call it a day.
By lynching who we think is most likely to be scum? I'm seeing downsides to claiming and not a lot of upside. Why do you think we need to claim to move forward?
And I'm torn between voting EFHW and MiX right now, so yeah not really liking them being in charge. I'd be happier with faust, at least he's not SK because of the neighborhood info thing.
So no, she's not as good as anybody. It's weirder how everyone, particularly MiX, is suddenly so in love with deferring judgement to people.
I'm super game to just lunch MiX but it seemed like most people were game for claiming until Ash swooped in and said it was anti-town. Re: claiming order, I LOVE the idea of popcorn and am not sure why I've never seen that. If we claim I absolutely vote for popcorn. What's the argument for EFHW other than vote analysis? Because I'm not buying the whole "there had to be scum on a D1 wagon" arguments, especially not after the last game.
You're all fools and forgot that arishipshape was clearly on my wagon. This is actually why I tweaked who was in Robz' wagon for my D1 VCA, I learned from that game.
Vote Count 1.final
"There is nothing so strange and so unbelievable that it has not been said by one philosopher or another." — René DescartesMiX (7): Debatepro, shraeye, raerae, mail-mi, LaLight, EFHW, Faust
EFHW (2): Uncleeurope, MiX
raerae (2): Joseph2302, DatSwan
mail-mi (1): silverspawn
Not Voting (1): Arishipshape
Don't worry, fam, I gotchu. This is actually who lynched you D1, all town. Every single one of 'em. So, let's try again with that EFHW case?
Vote Count 1.final
"There is nothing so strange and so unbelievable that it has not been said by one philosopher or another." — René DescartesMiX (7): Debatepro, shraeye, raerae, mail-mi, LaLight, EFHW, Faust
EFHW (2): Uncleeurope, MiX
raerae (2): Joseph2302, DatSwan
mail-mi (1): silverspawn
Not Voting (1): Arishipshape
Vote: Space
Don't worry, fam, I gotchu. This is actually who lynched you D1, all town. Every single one of 'em. So, let's try again with that EFHW case?
Vote Count 1.final
"There is nothing so strange and so unbelievable that it has not been said by one philosopher or another." — René DescartesMiX (7): Debatepro, shraeye, raerae, mail-mi, LaLight, EFHW, Faust
EFHW (2): Uncleeurope, MiX
raerae (2): Joseph2302, DatSwan
mail-mi (1): silverspawn
Not Voting (1): Arishipshape
That's because you failed to see that my lynch was guaranteed back when I had 6 votes, one of which was ari! Don't stick to the final vote count blindly, it misleads you, intermediate ones are better. Although I don't think that's the case for D2+, it seems to be true for D1. This only further proves that EFHW is scum.Vote: Space
Why?
Don't worry, fam, I gotchu. This is actually who lynched you D1, all town. Every single one of 'em. So, let's try again with that EFHW case?
Vote Count 1.final
"There is nothing so strange and so unbelievable that it has not been said by one philosopher or another." — René DescartesMiX (7): Debatepro, shraeye, raerae, mail-mi, LaLight, EFHW, Faust
EFHW (2): Uncleeurope, MiX
raerae (2): Joseph2302, DatSwan
mail-mi (1): silverspawn
Not Voting (1): Arishipshape
That's because you failed to see that my lynch was guaranteed back when I had 6 votes, one of which was ari! Don't stick to the final vote count blindly, it misleads you, intermediate ones are better. Although I don't think that's the case for D2+, it seems to be true for D1. This only further proves that EFHW is scum.
You said Didds gets a pass because she got off the e wagon. But Ari got off your wagon. But EFHW is scum because she stayed on the wagon. A+pickle=green donkey, right?
Come on, people, join me in lynching a single scum this game, please.
Don't worry, fam, I gotchu. This is actually who lynched you D1, all town. Every single one of 'em. So, let's try again with that EFHW case?
Vote Count 1.final
"There is nothing so strange and so unbelievable that it has not been said by one philosopher or another." — René DescartesMiX (7): Debatepro, shraeye, raerae, mail-mi, LaLight, EFHW, Faust
EFHW (2): Uncleeurope, MiX
raerae (2): Joseph2302, DatSwan
mail-mi (1): silverspawn
Not Voting (1): Arishipshape
That's because you failed to see that my lynch was guaranteed back when I had 6 votes, one of which was ari! Don't stick to the final vote count blindly, it misleads you, intermediate ones are better. Although I don't think that's the case for D2+, it seems to be true for D1. This only further proves that EFHW is scum.
You said Didds gets a pass because she got off the e wagon. But Ari got off your wagon. But EFHW is scum because she stayed on the wagon. A+pickle=green donkey, right?
Come on, people, join me in lynching a single scum this game, please.
You're just trying to paint my case as scummy so you can lynch me. Are you seriously thinking about what I'm saying or just dismissing it because I'm obv!scum? Think about it, don't let your bias cloud your judgement.
Ari jumped ship in a completely different scenarion:
1 - The lynch was already guaranteed so there was literally no risk
2 - It was very late in the day and he didn't vote elsewhere
3 - He was a new player, but I suppose that applies to Didds too
Essencially, arishipshape stayed long enough for his vote to matter and then left whereas Didds went there and immediatly left, adding literally zero pressure. I don't see why she would be a part of any analysis over the E wagon, the other 5 stayed much longer.
Do you believe one of (EFHW, MiX) is scum beyond a shadow of doubt?
I would also like a definition of popcorn, please!
Lightning rod would redirect their investigation from their target to the LR. Bus driving could work, at the risk of hitting someone else valuable like town!Morn or the other cop.That town!LR plan doesn't work because it makes the cop useless, so no point in protecting them.
How pray tell would protecting a cop render them useless? Bus drivers are roleblockers.
And if we're doing this thing, we need to at least get the remaining cops to claim. Just by having some of us claim we drastically reduce the pool of players who could be the cops and up the odds of scum shooting them, so what utility we get out of the claim is unambiguous cop innocents for POE without giving scum the option to argue about/obfuscate crumbs. If we do half a mass-claim, cops are still probably dead, may as well get their results.
Also, seriously raerae, why do we need to claim to move the day forward? Like we've had other days in the game where we lynched people without massclaiming haven't we?Yep. Those have gone splendidly.
I think it needs to be full mass claim or no claims (unless someone has a need). Lynching based on rolled role is dumb. There is no scumhunting involved. The only exception to that is roles that affect lylo voting such as Hated.That's pretty much what I'm saying. I keep thinking there's some utility to keeping Dax and Yates unclaimed with the hope of one of them being NKed but once we have a few claims anyway the unambiguous cop results are probably worth more.
Essencially, arishipshape stayed long enough for his vote to matter and then left whereas Didds went there and immediatly left, adding literally zero pressure. I don't see why she would be a part of any analysis over the E wagon, the other 5 stayed much longer.
If Hated is going to matter, town Hated will claim in time to rectify it and scum Hated might not but will be in a pickle come endgame anyway.
Rae, when did I say lynching MiX was bad? Never said that, no real issues with it.
Lightning rod would redirect their investigation from their target to the LR. Bus driving could work, at the risk of hitting someone else valuable like town!Morn or the other cop.That town!LR plan doesn't work because it makes the cop useless, so no point in protecting them.
How pray tell would protecting a cop render them useless? Bus drivers are roleblockers.
That is correct. I actually didn’t see that you put LR there responding to me saying Garak should Bus. That’s quite the sleight of hand there.
You said Gafak is scummy for not LRing. I disagree and say they should not LR and should bus to protect cop. Then you respond to my direct response to you with a misdirect? Why?
So, to clarify here: thank you for pointing out a fault in your own thinking and not mine.
I would apologize for misreading you if I wasn't so irked by the tone of your post.Lightning rod would redirect their investigation from their target to the LR. Bus driving could work, at the risk of hitting someone else valuable like town!Morn or the other cop.That town!LR plan doesn't work because it makes the cop useless, so no point in protecting them.
How pray tell would protecting a cop render them useless? Bus drivers are roleblockers.
That is correct. I actually didn’t see that you put LR there responding to me saying Garak should Bus. That’s quite the sleight of hand there.
You said Gafak is scummy for not LRing. I disagree and say they should not LR and should bus to protect cop. Then you respond to my direct response to you with a misdirect? Why?
So, to clarify here: thank you for pointing out a fault in your own thinking and not mine.
A completely different tack would be to look for the SK, in case there is one. Finding them would reduce the nk's to at most 1 per night.
No, I'm SK reading him actually. Him or Eddie.A completely different tack would be to look for the SK, in case there is one. Finding them would reduce the nk's to at most 1 per night.
That would be nice but they leave no trail. We could just lynch MiX. Unless you're town reading him?
No, I'm SK reading him actually. Him or Eddie.A completely different tack would be to look for the SK, in case there is one. Finding them would reduce the nk's to at most 1 per night.
That would be nice but they leave no trail. We could just lynch MiX. Unless you're town reading him?
It is technically still possible that there are two teams. My feeling, though, is that we have SK/Maquis.No, I'm SK reading him actually. Him or Eddie.A completely different tack would be to look for the SK, in case there is one. Finding them would reduce the nk's to at most 1 per night.
That would be nice but they leave no trail. We could just lynch MiX. Unless you're town reading him?
So you don't believe there are two teams? (sorry if you covered this in stats class, I just really can't follow that, math has always been intimidating and it's hard to rewire your brain, ya know?)
Also, seriously raerae, why do we need to claim to move the day forward? Like we've had other days in the game where we lynched people without massclaiming haven't we?Yep. Those have gone splendidly.
I was townreading Awaclus and e, the problem is just that you guys keep ignoring me. How does claiming help unless I'm Kai Winn?
Lightning rod would redirect their investigation from their target to the LR. Bus driving could work, at the risk of hitting someone else valuable like town!Morn or the other cop.That town!LR plan doesn't work because it makes the cop useless, so no point in protecting them.
How pray tell would protecting a cop render them useless? Bus drivers are roleblockers.
That is correct. I actually didn’t see that you put LR there responding to me saying Garak should Bus. That’s quite the sleight of hand there.
You said Gafak is scummy for not LRing. I disagree and say they should not LR and should bus to protect cop. Then you respond to my direct response to you with a misdirect? Why?
So, to clarify here: thank you for pointing out a fault in your own thinking and not mine.
Interesting.. I'd missed this subtlety when EFHW was arguing that Garak should claim, too.
Is it better for town!Garak to bus-drive, thus having a small chance of protecting an outed role by diverting one of two possible NKs, or to use LR and therefore probably save two other PRs from NKs, giving a likely net gain of townie? I guess Garak won't have known that both NKs would fall on townies so often instead of non-town factions hitting each other. I think it's not as clear-cut as what seemed to be presented in-thread earlier, but I also think it's not clear that Ash's suggestion of saving the shot for use as bus-driving is inherently better.
Having said that, I think that the discussion so far in D4 framing the lack of Garack-reveal as anti-town means a town!Garak should have felt a lot of pressure to claim.
A completely different tack would be to look for the SK, in case there is one. Finding them would reduce the nk's to at most 1 per night.
That would be nice but they leave no trail. We could just lynch MiX. Unless you're town reading him?
A completely different tack would be to look for the SK, in case there is one. Finding them would reduce the nk's to at most 1 per night.
That would be nice but they leave no trail. We could just lynch MiX. Unless you're town reading him?
I don’t think even MiX is townreading MiX.
No, I'm SK reading him actually. Him or Eddie.A completely different tack would be to look for the SK, in case there is one. Finding them would reduce the nk's to at most 1 per night.
That would be nice but they leave no trail. We could just lynch MiX. Unless you're town reading him?
A completely different tack would be to look for the SK, in case there is one. Finding them would reduce the nk's to at most 1 per night.
That would be nice but they leave no trail. We could just lynch MiX. Unless you're town reading him?
I don’t think even MiX is townreading MiX.
A completely different tack would be to look for the SK, in case there is one. Finding them would reduce the nk's to at most 1 per night.
That would be nice but they leave no trail. We could just lynch MiX. Unless you're town reading him?
I don’t think even MiX is townreading MiX.
Which begs the question of why his lynch has never gone through.
Because it's MiX, and we are fresh out of a game where he did this exact stuff as town and got killed for it. (And he is an unlikely shraeye partner)
Also, seriously raerae, why do we need to claim to move the day forward? Like we've had other days in the game where we lynched people without massclaiming haven't we?Yep. Those have gone splendidly.
I was townreading Awaclus and e, the problem is just that you guys keep ignoring me. How does claiming help unless I'm Kai Winn?
A completely different tack would be to look for the SK, in case there is one. Finding them would reduce the nk's to at most 1 per night.Yeah that sure sounds like something scum wants.
I am townreading MiX.
Is it possible to communicate in a more polite manner? One less nk a night is valuable and the previous approach was going terribly.A completely different tack would be to look for the SK, in case there is one. Finding them would reduce the nk's to at most 1 per night.Yeah that sure sounds like something scum wants.
No connection between you and MiX. You are disengaged and not scumhunting. MiX feels kind of hyper and like maybe he has a role that is difficult to navigate.No, I'm SK reading him actually. Him or Eddie.A completely different tack would be to look for the SK, in case there is one. Finding them would reduce the nk's to at most 1 per night.
That would be nice but they leave no trail. We could just lynch MiX. Unless you're town reading him?
We are playing fairly differently, interested in the connection there.
I would say I am disengaged, but I am scum hunting.
Regardless, I would scum hunt as an SK.
I would say I am disengaged, but I am scum hunting.
Regardless, I would scum hunt as an SK.
You wouldn’t scum hunt as non-SK scum?
Do you believe one of (EFHW, MiX) is scum beyond a shadow of doubt?
What were you hoping to learn by asking me this?
And what is the downside of Town!Garak claiming? If they can convince us they are town, they can still do their thing tonight. I don't think most town!Garaks would let fear of being lynched keep them from claiming. Could be wrong.
I don’t think even MiX is townreading MiX.
Bahahaha
That’s a sig if I’ve ever seen one.
No, I'm SK reading him actually. Him or Eddie.A completely different tack would be to look for the SK, in case there is one. Finding them would reduce the nk's to at most 1 per night.
That would be nice but they leave no trail. We could just lynch MiX. Unless you're town reading him?
We are playing fairly differently, interested in the connection there.
I am townreading MiX.
Sorry about that.Is it possible to communicate in a more polite manner? One less nk a night is valuable and the previous approach was going terribly.A completely different tack would be to look for the SK, in case there is one. Finding them would reduce the nk's to at most 1 per night.Yeah that sure sounds like something scum wants.
Someone sane exists. Fortunate. What's your opinion on EFHW?Not very likely to be scum with shraeye.
well I had a good VCA done, but the skum flip means I need to edit it. will have some stuff to go off of tonight.
also people should scan glooble for potential crumbs
So: Space, are you Garak?
I think I assumed they chose start of game as well.
I consider myself appropriately schooled.A completely different tack would be to look for the SK, in case there is one. Finding them would reduce the nk's to at most 1 per night.
That would be nice but they leave no trail. We could just lynch MiX. Unless you're town reading him?
I don’t think even MiX is townreading MiX.
Which begs the question of why his lynch has never gone through.
I did not.
http://begthequestion.info/
I am townreading MiX.
You’re also his highest chance at a partner if he is scum. (IMO)
That being said, I definitely would prefer a different person to die today, at least.
Or, as my mother used to say "Just because I tell your brother that I love him doesn't mean I hate you."
Someone sane exists. Fortunate. What's your opinion on EFHW?Not very likely to be scum with shraeye.
Two of UoS, ashersky, Didds.Someone sane exists. Fortunate. What's your opinion on EFHW?Not very likely to be scum with shraeye.
So who is? Everybody keeps saying it couldn't possibly be MiX (I disagree), it can't be EFHW, it wasn't Awaclus. Who is it then? We're getting toward the shallow end of the pool.
Two of UoS, ashersky, Didds.Someone sane exists. Fortunate. What's your opinion on EFHW?Not very likely to be scum with shraeye.
So who is? Everybody keeps saying it couldn't possibly be MiX (I disagree), it can't be EFHW, it wasn't Awaclus. Who is it then? We're getting toward the shallow end of the pool.
Go ahead. You didn't miss anything. They're low on my list, though.Two of UoS, ashersky, Didds.Someone sane exists. Fortunate. What's your opinion on EFHW?Not very likely to be scum with shraeye.
So who is? Everybody keeps saying it couldn't possibly be MiX (I disagree), it can't be EFHW, it wasn't Awaclus. Who is it then? We're getting toward the shallow end of the pool.
I’d probably throw space into that pool as well.
Unless I missed something.
Also Eddie.
Also Eddie.
Do you think I am the SK? Shraeye’s partner? Or both? Or neither?
I don't know. You can't be both, obviously. You could be either or neither.Also Eddie.
Do you think I am SKnot shraeye’s partnrr? Or both? Or neither?
The pool isn't all that shallow. Why does it feel that way to you?Someone sane exists. Fortunate. What's your opinion on EFHW?Not very likely to be scum with shraeye.
So who is? Everybody keeps saying it couldn't possibly be MiX (I disagree), it can't be EFHW, it wasn't Awaclus. Who is it then? We're getting toward the shallow end of the pool.
The pool isn't all that shallow. Why does it feel that way to you?Someone sane exists. Fortunate. What's your opinion on EFHW?Not very likely to be scum with shraeye.
So who is? Everybody keeps saying it couldn't possibly be MiX (I disagree), it can't be EFHW, it wasn't Awaclus. Who is it then? We're getting toward the shallow end of the pool.
Not really, but I've been surprised lots of times so who knows.The pool isn't all that shallow. Why does it feel that way to you?Someone sane exists. Fortunate. What's your opinion on EFHW?Not very likely to be scum with shraeye.
So who is? Everybody keeps saying it couldn't possibly be MiX (I disagree), it can't be EFHW, it wasn't Awaclus. Who is it then? We're getting toward the shallow end of the pool.
Do you think raerae's scum?
The pool isn't all that shallow. Why does it feel that way to you?Someone sane exists. Fortunate. What's your opinion on EFHW?Not very likely to be scum with shraeye.
So who is? Everybody keeps saying it couldn't possibly be MiX (I disagree), it can't be EFHW, it wasn't Awaclus. Who is it then? We're getting toward the shallow end of the pool.
Interesting, so you have expanded your bounds past MiX?
Care to share one of those names?
Or have you already and I missed it?
Interesting, so you have expanded your bounds past MiX?
Care to share one of those names?
Or have you already and I missed it?
Later, my friend, later. I think MiX is our best lynch today and I'd rather not derail that.
Dear mods, when does Garak choose between Lightning Rod and Bus Driver?
Interesting, so you have expanded your bounds past MiX?
Care to share one of those names?
Or have you already and I missed it?
Later, my friend, later. I think MiX is our best lynch today and I'd rather not derail that.
Killing me is the biggest bore for today. I suggest EFHW or Didds, which one would you prefer? If neither, how about Space? These are my scumreads by the way.
Dear mods, when does Garak choose between Lightning Rod and Bus Driver?
When he uses the power.
If we were scum, we have have simply asked the above question in the scum QT when the topic came up... so actually it makes us lesss likely scum.Dear mods, when does Garak choose between Lightning Rod and Bus Driver?
When he uses the power.
Cool, that means my initial assumption was correct, and the assumption that EFHW and faust seemed to be working with was not. It's possible faust was just influenced by what EFHW had said, but it's also a slight partner indication between the two of them, since it's something that may have been discussed in a scum QT. I propose awarding a handful of scumpoints to one of them if the other flips scum.
Interesting, so you have expanded your bounds past MiX?
Care to share one of those names?
Or have you already and I missed it?
Later, my friend, later. I think MiX is our best lynch today and I'd rather not derail that.
Killing me is the biggest bore for today. I suggest EFHW or Didds, which one would you prefer? If neither, how about Space? These are my scumreads by the way.
That's an odd set. You seem to be quite taken with my case on EFHW-or-maybe-WCD, and yet you decide to put me up there with them as a scumread? If you think we're the most likely three scum, I think you must have some confidence that at least, say, two of us are scum. Yet that case was made by me using my running-voting-state counter, which nobody else here seems to have made for themselves. I didn't have to post the running vote counts, nor did I have to point out the e wagon on multiple occasions, yet you think I'd do that to implicate my alleged scum-teammates?
Also, you're the only one to have parroted my "faust is marginally less likely to be scum" thing from yesterday, which seems odd if you think I'm scum and don't include him as a scumread.
I'm approximately 70 posts behind in terms of reading, and I'm at a work party tonight. To avoid being completely useless, here's the fastest thing I can do:(coloring mine)
No interest in lynching (townreads, people I think are not good D1 lynches, newbie)
3. LaLight
7. WestCoastDidds
8. SpaceAnemone
9. Shraeye
11. faust
12. ashersky
17. raerae
18. chickenwarlord
Little interest in lynching (feeling meh on, but happy about the fact they're posting stuff)
5. mcmcsalot
2. UmbrageOfSnow
Happy to go along with a lynch/have no opinion on (scumreads up to null people I don't have strong feelings about)
1. Jimmmmm
4. DatSwan
6. Glooble
10. MiX
13. 2.71828.....
14. Robz888
15. Awaclus
16. Uncleeurope
Things I will try to do before deadline:
1) Re-read everyone on the bottom list there.
2) Get the vote counter set up so I can try to post useful vote counts. The deadline is 1pm my time, which is totally civilised for me, so I should be here from 2-3 hours beforehand.
Good enough.
Vote: Space
Oh you are voting there as well. Funny how that is exactly the composition of the late D1 wagon on Space.Good enough.
Vote: Space
L-2...? I think...?
Oh you are voting there as well. Funny how that is exactly the composition of the late D1 wagon on Space.Good enough.
Vote: Space
L-2...? I think...?
Oh you are voting there as well. Funny how that is exactly the composition of the late D1 wagon on Space.Good enough.
Vote: Space
L-2...? I think...?
The nostalgia is palpable, hopefully the sequel has a better ending than the original.
Good enough.Seriously? That whole analysis was based on finding a partner for me or Didds, and we haven't flipped anything! No mention of UoS, ash, or Eddie, who are completely unknown quantities who have been much less helpful than Space. He says the VCAs are NAI, but then uses them as proof they are Maquis if neither of me or Didds are. The next seven times someone else is illogical you should remember this vote!
Vote: Space
Seriously? That whole analysis was based on finding a partner for me or Didds, and we haven't flipped anything!Except it wasn't. It also handled the case that neither of you are scum.
No mention of UoS, ash, or Eddie, who are completely unknown quantities who have been much less helpful than Space.Helpfulness is a bad indicator of scumminess. If anything, I think helpful people are usually more likely scum, and certainly so in Space's case.
He says the VCAs are NAI, but then uses them as proof they are Maquis if neither of me or Didds are.Where was this?
And if neither EFHW and Didds are Maquis then you have a really strong incentive to post that VCA as Maquis, but I'm not so sure your VCAs are that alignment indicative...
He followed this with his tl;dr that Space is scum in all three scenarios.QuoteAnd if neither EFHW and Didds are Maquis then you have a really strong incentive to post that VCA as Maquis, but I'm not so sure your VCAs are that alignment indicative...
OKay you meant something different from what I thought you meant. This just says that he isn't sure.QuoteAnd if neither EFHW and Didds are Maquis then you have a really strong incentive to post that VCA as Maquis, but I'm not so sure your VCAs are that alignment indicative...
Unhelpfulness is a scum trait. And Space being helpful certainly doesn't exonerate UoS, ash or Eddie.So why are you voting MiX and not one of those unhelpful people?
Good enough.Seriously? That whole analysis was based on finding a partner for me or Didds, and we haven't flipped anything! No mention of UoS, ash, or Eddie, who are completely unknown quantities who have been much less helpful than Space. He says the VCAs are NAI, but then uses them as proof they are Maquis if neither of me or Didds are. The next seven times someone else is illogical you should remember this vote!
Vote: Space
vote: MiX
Unhelpfulness is a scum trait. And Space being helpful certainly doesn't exonerate UoS, ash or Eddie.
Unhelpfulness is a scum trait. And Space being helpful certainly doesn't exonerate UoS, ash or Eddie.So why are you voting MiX and not one of those unhelpful people?
Good morning, folks! I’m back from the land of big trees and will try to get reasonably caught up today.
Vote: MiX (L-2) because Space? Raerae and EFHW are making more sense right now than MiX, Eddie, and faust.
It's his ONLY argument for Space being Maquis if Didds and I aren't. I asked for the VCA. It's completely NAI.OKay you meant something different from what I thought you meant. This just says that he isn't sure.QuoteAnd if neither EFHW and Didds are Maquis then you have a really strong incentive to post that VCA as Maquis, but I'm not so sure your VCAs are that alignment indicative...
Because he is being outright scummy.Unhelpfulness is a scum trait. And Space being helpful certainly doesn't exonerate UoS, ash or Eddie.So why are you voting MiX and not one of those unhelpful people?
Well Didds is scummy, you are not towny, so again, good enough.It's his ONLY argument for Space being Maquis if Didds and I aren't. I asked for the VCA. It's completely NAI.OKay you meant something different from what I thought you meant. This just says that he isn't sure.QuoteAnd if neither EFHW and Didds are Maquis then you have a really strong incentive to post that VCA as Maquis, but I'm not so sure your VCAs are that alignment indicative...
How?Because he is being outright scummy.Unhelpfulness is a scum trait. And Space being helpful certainly doesn't exonerate UoS, ash or Eddie.So why are you voting MiX and not one of those unhelpful people?
If you want to lynch me to save your scumbuddy, just say it, there's no reason to attack the case
PPE faust: Trying to pass this case off on us is outright scummy, as are the uncalled for attacking comments in his most recent post.That case seems to rely strongly on the assumption that you are town. Also it is based on 2 posts and ignores everything else. It doesn't do a lot to convince me.
QuoteIf you want to lynch me to save your scumbuddy, just say it, there's no reason to attack the case
I just gave several excellent reasons for attacking your case.
Why aren't UoS, ash or Eddie Maquis? I can't think of a single factor casting doubt on the possibility.
I could have jumped on your wagon at any time. I didn't have a reason to until now.
PPE faust: Trying to pass this case off on us is outright scummy, as are the uncalled for attacking comments in his most recent post.
What have I overlooked? And I'm not trying to convince you to vote MiX, I'm trying to convince you to unvote Space.PPE faust: Trying to pass this case off on us is outright scummy, as are the uncalled for attacking comments in his most recent post.That case seems to rely strongly on the assumption that you are town. Also it is based on 2 posts and ignores everything else. It doesn't do a lot to convince me.
MiX: Do you think EFHW/Didds could both be Maquis?
MiX: Do you think EFHW/Didds could both be Maquis?
No.
Well for starters shraeye townread MiX on D1 and then suddenly flipped at the start of D2. I just don't think he has incentive to do that to a partner. And MiX has been a top lynch candidate for almost the whole game with very little reasoning, the strongest point being raerae's speculations on reasons to kill off Glooble.What have I overlooked? And I'm not trying to convince you to vote MiX, I'm trying to convince you to unvote Space.PPE faust: Trying to pass this case off on us is outright scummy, as are the uncalled for attacking comments in his most recent post.That case seems to rely strongly on the assumption that you are town. Also it is based on 2 posts and ignores everything else. It doesn't do a lot to convince me.
Who here thinks that scum!Space would have been so vocal in pointing out all the known towns on that e wagon if their partner was one of the unknowns?
PPE faust: No one has pushed a scum wagon that we know of. Do I need to mention Awaclus?
Plus 80% (<- hyperbole (probably?)) of Space's posts are focused on probability talk, which gives the illusion of helpfulness without any meaningful content. In my eyes anyway.
It's an easy way to say a lot and nothing at the same time.
Plus 80% (<- hyperbole (probably?)) of Space's posts are focused on probability talk, which gives the illusion of helpfulness without any meaningful content. In my eyes anyway.
It's an easy way to say a lot and nothing at the same time.
It's easier to bus if you're voting, by the way. Just saying.
I was talking to faust, who was responsible for the Awaclus mislynch. I am not scumreading faust. That is why I am so frustrated with him.Who here thinks that scum!Space would have been so vocal in pointing out all the known towns on that e wagon if their partner was one of the unknowns?
PPE faust: No one has pushed a scum wagon that we know of. Do I need to mention Awaclus?
Jimmmmmm did, may he rest in piece for seeing what all of us couldn't.
Are you scumreading faust? Is that what's happening here? I don't think Space really pushed the Awaclus wagon, as scum would, but they pushed E's wagon, which is on character. Actually, let me reread Space's D3 really quick...Plus 80% (<- hyperbole (probably?)) of Space's posts are focused on probability talk, which gives the illusion of helpfulness without any meaningful content. In my eyes anyway.
It's an easy way to say a lot and nothing at the same time.
It's easier to bus if you're voting, by the way. Just saying.
@faust: I'll unvote MiX if you unvote Space.
@Eddie: Why don't you actually go back and count how many of their points were simply probabilty calculations. If anyone has been actilurking, it's you.
Who here thinks that scum!Space would have been so vocal in pointing out all the known towns on that e wagon if their partner was one of the unknowns?Me.
@faust: I'll unvote MiX if you unvote Space.I'll unvote Space if you claim Cop with an innocent result on them.
@faust: I'll unvote MiX if you unvote Space.
@Eddie: Why don't you actually go back and count how many of their points were simply probabilty calculations. If anyone has been actilurking, it's you.
Is everyone in agreement that I am being unhelpful? What does being helpful constitute? Because I feel more helpful than a large portion of our players right now.
Actually now that we can assume that we still have a form of protection, I think we should force Cop claims.
Plus 80% (<- hyperbole (probably?)) of Space's posts are focused on probability talk, which gives the illusion of helpfulness without any meaningful content. In my eyes anyway.But I don't think that is alignment indicative for Space. Well a little in that they are playing within their meta, but not significantly.
It's an easy way to say a lot and nothing at the same time.
I disagree. And scum Garak may well protect the Cop for the other team. How long do you think we should wait for Cop results?Actually now that we can assume that we still have a form of protection, I think we should force Cop claims.
Worthless if cops have 2 or less innocent results. We have ONE bus drive and that's it. Regardless we need a Garak claim because if they're scum they won't protect the cops.
Plus 80% (<- hyperbole (probably?)) of Space's posts are focused on probability talk, which gives the illusion of helpfulness without any meaningful content. In my eyes anyway.But I don't think that is alignment indicative for Space. Well a little in that they are playing within their meta, but not significantly.
It's an easy way to say a lot and nothing at the same time.
I disagree. And scum Garak may well protect the Cop for the other team. How long do you think we should wait for Cop results?Actually now that we can assume that we still have a form of protection, I think we should force Cop claims.
Worthless if cops have 2 or less innocent results. We have ONE bus drive and that's it. Regardless we need a Garak claim because if they're scum they won't protect the cops.
Then we know that Garak is scum. So just as good as having another night of Cop results. In fact I'd argue that a Cop is more likely to die tonight if we don't claim.I disagree. And scum Garak may well protect the Cop for the other team. How long do you think we should wait for Cop results?Actually now that we can assume that we still have a form of protection, I think we should force Cop claims.
Worthless if cops have 2 or less innocent results. We have ONE bus drive and that's it. Regardless we need a Garak claim because if they're scum they won't protect the cops.
One day. And your argument, while good...well, might kill our Maquis cop while there's no MU. Too risky, cops know what they know and they should know when it's good to claim.
Right.Actually now that we can assume that we still have a form of protection, I think we should force Cop claims.
Worthless if cops have 2 or less innocent results. We have ONE bus drive and that's it. Regardless we need a Garak claim because if they're scum they won't protect the cops.
If cops are going to take the risk of claiming, then Garak should too, to hold them accountable.Then we know that Garak is scum. So just as good as having another night of Cop results. In fact I'd argue that a Cop is more likely to die tonight if we don't claim.I disagree. And scum Garak may well protect the Cop for the other team. How long do you think we should wait for Cop results?Actually now that we can assume that we still have a form of protection, I think we should force Cop claims.
Worthless if cops have 2 or less innocent results. We have ONE bus drive and that's it. Regardless we need a Garak claim because if they're scum they won't protect the cops.
One day. And your argument, while good...well, might kill our Maquis cop while there's no MU. Too risky, cops know what they know and they should know when it's good to claim.
Sorry, missed coloring chicken. Was not meant to misrespresent stuff.
TL;DR: You're scum in all three scenarios: EFHW is Maquis, Didds is Maquis, neither are Maquis. Well, just probably in the last two. But for sure in the first one...which leads me to
PS: Others have used intermediate vote counts: me and Swan, at least.
Also, you're the only one to have parroted my "faust is marginally less likely to be scum" thing from yesterday, which seems odd if you think I'm scum and don't include him as a scumread.
It's true, why would I omit it or scumread faust for you saying it? It's a fact. And an irrelevent fact, at least for now.
Well for starters shraeye townread MiX on D1 and then suddenly flipped at the start of D2. I just don't think he has incentive to do that to a partner. And MiX has been a top lynch candidate for almost the whole game with very little reasoning, the strongest point being raerae's speculations on reasons to kill off Glooble.What have I overlooked? And I'm not trying to convince you to vote MiX, I'm trying to convince you to unvote Space.PPE faust: Trying to pass this case off on us is outright scummy, as are the uncalled for attacking comments in his most recent post.That case seems to rely strongly on the assumption that you are town. Also it is based on 2 posts and ignores everything else. It doesn't do a lot to convince me.
Space on the other hand has pushed for the lynch of townies all game, has thrown out that e wagon analysis and referenced it multiple times without ever investigating the people implicated by it (D2 they decided to reread me and Eddie over the people they supposedly suspected), protected shraeye, posted very little in terms of reads and joined all the mislynch wagons.
Well for starters shraeye townread MiX on D1 and then suddenly flipped at the start of D2. I just don't think he has incentive to do that to a partner. And MiX has been a top lynch candidate for almost the whole game with very little reasoning, the strongest point being raerae's speculations on reasons to kill off Glooble.What have I overlooked? And I'm not trying to convince you to vote MiX, I'm trying to convince you to unvote Space.PPE faust: Trying to pass this case off on us is outright scummy, as are the uncalled for attacking comments in his most recent post.That case seems to rely strongly on the assumption that you are town. Also it is based on 2 posts and ignores everything else. It doesn't do a lot to convince me.
Space on the other hand has pushed for the lynch of townies all game, has thrown out that e wagon analysis and referenced it multiple times without ever investigating the people implicated by it (D2 they decided to reread me and Eddie over the people they supposedly suspected), protected shraeye, posted very little in terms of reads and joined all the mislynch wagons.
Your misrepresenting shraeye's MiX feelings, giving somebody a D1 pass isn't the same as town reading them.
Here's who seems like they're engaging well, acting towny to me; drawing questions/discussions about eachother:
MiX
Well for starters shraeye townread MiX on D1 and then suddenly flipped at the start of D2. I just don't think he has incentive to do that to a partner. And MiX has been a top lynch candidate for almost the whole game with very little reasoning, the strongest point being raerae's speculations on reasons to kill off Glooble.What have I overlooked? And I'm not trying to convince you to vote MiX, I'm trying to convince you to unvote Space.PPE faust: Trying to pass this case off on us is outright scummy, as are the uncalled for attacking comments in his most recent post.That case seems to rely strongly on the assumption that you are town. Also it is based on 2 posts and ignores everything else. It doesn't do a lot to convince me.
Space on the other hand has pushed for the lynch of townies all game, has thrown out that e wagon analysis and referenced it multiple times without ever investigating the people implicated by it (D2 they decided to reread me and Eddie over the people they supposedly suspected), protected shraeye, posted very little in terms of reads and joined all the mislynch wagons.
Your misrepresenting shraeye's MiX feelings, giving somebody a D1 pass isn't the same as town reading them.
faust also misrepresented me as "protecting" Shraeye when all I did was say I wasn't voting for his lynch D1 because he was a new-to-me player.
No interest in lynching (townreads, people I think are not good D1 lynches, newbie)The bracket doesn't include "new-to-me players" as a reason.
[...]
9. Shraeye
In fact, you also didn't play with Eddie, and he's on your would lynch list in this.faust also misrepresented me as "protecting" Shraeye when all I did was say I wasn't voting for his lynch D1 because he was a new-to-me player.
Again, happy to put this one to this audience:No interest in lynching (townreads, people I think are not good D1 lynches, newbie)The bracket doesn't include "new-to-me players" as a reason.
[...]
9. Shraeye
6) Actually, I've played consistently, given that I've supported lynches of people on my stated would-lynch list. Do really you think scum!me would have put all my partners in the upper section and mostly only townies in the lower section?Yep, it is oh so townie to never change your reads on anyone after D1. And yes I do. I mean obviously you'd have tried to put people from the other scum faction in the lower section, but I'd expect your partners being in the top part.
In fact, you also didn't play with Eddie, and he's on your would lynch list in this.faust also misrepresented me as "protecting" Shraeye when all I did was say I wasn't voting for his lynch D1 because he was a new-to-me player.
Again, happy to put this one to this audience:No interest in lynching (townreads, people I think are not good D1 lynches, newbie)The bracket doesn't include "new-to-me players" as a reason.
[...]
9. Shraeye
I'm sorry if you don't like the way I'd chosen my words, but the fact is that raerae and Shraeye were both up there because I wasn't interested in voting for them on D1 them without playing a bit more first. You and Ash were there because it's silly to kill you off early when you usually get NKd and/or are forced into pro-town play when you're scum, for meta reasons. That doesn't mean I was explicitly townreading the two of you either.That may well be the case, but you did not say so, so it is disingenuous of you to accuse me of misrepresenting it when my interpretation was based directly on what you wrote.
6) Actually, I've played consistently, given that I've supported lynches of people on my stated would-lynch list. Do really you think scum!me would have put all my partners in the upper section and mostly only townies in the lower section?Yep, it is oh so townie to never change your reads on anyone after D1. And yes I do. I mean obviously you'd have tried to put people from the other scum faction in the lower section, but I'd expect your partners being in the top part.
I'm sorry if you don't like the way I'd chosen my words, but the fact is that raerae and Shraeye were both up there because I wasn't interested in voting for them on D1 them without playing a bit more first. You and Ash were there because it's silly to kill you off early when you usually get NKd and/or are forced into pro-town play when you're scum, for meta reasons. That doesn't mean I was explicitly townreading the two of you either.That may well be the case, but you did not say so, so it is disingenuous of you to accuse me of misrepresenting it when my interpretation was based directly on what you wrote.
The only reason I added point 6 above was that I was trying to help town in the limited time I had available at that point in D1, and posting lists of behaviours people can them hold you to is something I see as townie, because if I suddenly started voting opportunistically on people I'd said I wouldn't want to vote for, then you could tell I wasn't playing in a way that was true to my earlier sentiments.Or you know, if they suddenly started claiming that they put people on lists for different reasons than stated at the time.
Well for starters shraeye townread MiX on D1 and then suddenly flipped at the start of D2. I just don't think he has incentive to do that to a partner. And MiX has been a top lynch candidate for almost the whole game with very little reasoning, the strongest point being raerae's speculations on reasons to kill off Glooble.What have I overlooked? And I'm not trying to convince you to vote MiX, I'm trying to convince you to unvote Space.PPE faust: Trying to pass this case off on us is outright scummy, as are the uncalled for attacking comments in his most recent post.That case seems to rely strongly on the assumption that you are town. Also it is based on 2 posts and ignores everything else. It doesn't do a lot to convince me.
Space on the other hand has pushed for the lynch of townies all game, has thrown out that e wagon analysis and referenced it multiple times without ever investigating the people implicated by it (D2 they decided to reread me and Eddie over the people they supposedly suspected), protected shraeye, posted very little in terms of reads and joined all the mislynch wagons.
Your misrepresenting shraeye's MiX feelings, giving somebody a D1 pass isn't the same as town reading them.Here's who seems like they're engaging well, acting towny to me; drawing questions/discussions about eachother:
MiX
I will let the audience judge on who's doing the misrepresenting.
I was about to vote for MiX, then I remembered that I promised myself less tunnelling.
Mix, your thing with e's townread of me was weird, but I understood you better when you explained it.
Your thing with faust is now weird. Can you explain what your vote is doing there?
Well for starters shraeye townread MiX on D1 and then suddenly flipped at the start of D2. I just don't think he has incentive to do that to a partner. And MiX has been a top lynch candidate for almost the whole game with very little reasoning, the strongest point being raerae's speculations on reasons to kill off Glooble.What have I overlooked? And I'm not trying to convince you to vote MiX, I'm trying to convince you to unvote Space.PPE faust: Trying to pass this case off on us is outright scummy, as are the uncalled for attacking comments in his most recent post.That case seems to rely strongly on the assumption that you are town. Also it is based on 2 posts and ignores everything else. It doesn't do a lot to convince me.
Space on the other hand has pushed for the lynch of townies all game, has thrown out that e wagon analysis and referenced it multiple times without ever investigating the people implicated by it (D2 they decided to reread me and Eddie over the people they supposedly suspected), protected shraeye, posted very little in terms of reads and joined all the mislynch wagons.
Your misrepresenting shraeye's MiX feelings, giving somebody a D1 pass isn't the same as town reading them.
faust also misrepresented me as "protecting" Shraeye when all I did was say I wasn't voting for his lynch D1 because he was a new-to-me player.
I rolled my eyes at that post, it was so early and in multi-ball it isn't like you can KNOW who town is even if you're scum.You can know who your partners are.
I don't want to vote MiX here unless it comes down to a him-vs-me scenario, because I do think there's a chance he's just town making awful cases.
I do also think there's likely to be at least one scum between EFHW and WCD, so the fact that the two of them are both on his wagon doesn't inspire confidence that it's a well-placed town vote.
@EFHW: you asked me to post the D1 & D2 voting histories. What have you so far done with that information?
I rolled my eyes at that post, it was so early and in multi-ball it isn't like you can KNOW who town is even if you're scum.You can know who your partners are.
I'm rather saying "look how Space kept most of their potential partners off their would lynchs". That the would lynch list contains lots of town is a consequence of that.I rolled my eyes at that post, it was so early and in multi-ball it isn't like you can KNOW who town is even if you're scum.You can know who your partners are.
But, and maybe I'm misunderstanding what you were trying to convey, it seemed to me like you were saying, "Look at all the town people SA put on the would lynch side of life." That isn't a fair assessment.
@EFHW, you mention a few people as being less helpful in your eyes, but you didn’t include WCD, do you find WCD to be helpful?Intermittently.
I don't want to vote MiX here unless it comes down to a him-vs-me scenario, because I do think there's a chance he's just town making awful cases.I went through everyone's voting history looking for patterns. I looked at the wagons at their biggest to think about the composition. I investigated Eddie's 19 votes and MiX's 21 to see if there was something there. I looked in particular to see how Shraeye voted and who was voting with him. I ended up suspecting UoS for sitting on faust as a safe scum!perch and only joining established wagons, a conservative voting strategy that scum sometimes adopts. And he was on 4 of the 6 larger wagons - LL, Robz, MiX, faust. Not e or Awaclus. I'll post that, maybe it's interesting.
I do also think there's likely to be at least one scum between EFHW and WCD, so the fact that the two of them are both on his wagon doesn't inspire confidence that it's a well-placed town vote.
@EFHW: you asked me to post the D1 & D2 voting histories. What have you so far done with that information?
It would be good to update this for D3. Can't right now.
It would be good to update this for D3. Can't right now.
e wagon: Space, MiX, faust, EFHW, Eddie, ashersky
chicken wagon: Didds
MiX wagon: raerae, UoS
Not as useful as the others, but the chicken wagon is remarkable.
@EFHW, you mention a few people as being less helpful in your eyes, but you didn’t include WCD, do you find WCD to be helpful?Intermittently.
It would be good to update this for D3. Can't right now.
e wagon: Space, MiX, faust, EFHW, Eddie, ashersky
chicken wagon: Didds
MiX wagon: raerae, UoS
Not as useful as the others, but the chicken wagon is remarkable.
How is that remarkable? A bunch of people were wrong about e, and I was wrong about chicken. And the other folks on the chicken wagon (e are Datswan) are dead. So, chicken was an example of town on town. The e wagon, however, seems highly likely to have multiple scum.
I feel pretty good about my MiX vote.
It would be good to update this for D3. Can't right now.
e wagon: Space, MiX, faust, EFHW, Eddie, ashersky
chicken wagon: Didds
MiX wagon: raerae, UoS
Not as useful as the others, but the chicken wagon is remarkable.
How is that remarkable? A bunch of people were wrong about e, and I was wrong about chicken. And the other folks on the chicken wagon (e are Datswan) are dead. So, chicken was an example of town on town. The e wagon, however, seems highly likely to have multiple scum.
I feel pretty good about my MiX vote.
That's quite a defense for the word "remarkable". I just said that because it's the only wagon with exactly 1 unflipped player, yet you immediately said that it was a town on town wagon. So, tell me, is Space your scumbuddy?
Just to clarify, I'm not scumreading (or townreading) you for it, the defense simply feels...out of place. Very out of place. Who are scum in your opinion?
EFHW's play so far in D4 seems towny enough.
Chicken being Ferengi explains some of his difference in play bewtween D2 and D3.Tell me more about that difference.
That's quite a defense for the word "remarkable". I just said that because it's the only wagon with exactly 1 unflipped player, yet you immediately said that it was a town on town wagon. So, tell me, is Space your scumbuddy?
Just to clarify, I'm not scumreading (or townreading) you for it, the defense simply feels...out of place. Very out of place. Who are scum in your opinion?
Disagree. Your "remarkable" comment was pretty obviously baiting this reaction.
@Space, Didds, and EFHW: Me vs MiX, is it town v town, scum v scum, or town v scum?
Helpfulness is definitely my barometer for townfolk. However flawed that might be, its what I generally how I think about it. (Awaclus is an example of this potential flaw in my thinking about helpfulness) Space is helpful, so I'm keeping them on the sunny side of the street.
Being on faust all game wouldn't have been pointless if we didn't spend the whole game just giving him a pass without thinking about it.
Ironically I don't really want to lynch faust anymore, but I still want to whine about this.
It's weirding me out how vehemently we were (collectively) hunting Garak and pushing claims earlier and that just dropped completely after a bit of pushback. I was fully expecting to have to claim and complain about how dumb it was. I'm happier to not claim, but it's weird.
Vote: EFHW
It's weirding me out how vehemently we were (collectively) hunting Garak and pushing claims earlier and that just dropped completely after a bit of pushback. I was fully expecting to have to claim and complain about how dumb it was. I'm happier to not claim, but it's weird.This post sounds like a claim.
Even if it's not, I've decided to go ahead. I'm Worf, and faust and Space are NOT Maquis. Neither was Glooble, but you already know that.
Even if it's not, I've decided to go ahead. I'm Worf, and faust and Space are NOT Maquis. Neither was Glooble, but you already know that.
You know, I WILL vote here, I just think that if EFHW's Maquis then Space's Maquis. But EFHW might not be Maquis...I would rather lynch Space today, however. What's your stance on Space, again?
Even if it's not, I've decided to go ahead. I'm Worf, and faust and Space are NOT Maquis. Neither was Glooble, but you already know that.
WHAT?
What.
whispers what.
Unvote
Er.........
Vote: MiX
No, right, the partner, not me...
Vote: Didds
@Didds: What do you think is helpful about Space's lists? Is effort the same thing as helpfulness to you?
LL picked Space. I had scumread on Glooble. I was thinking of faust as town because of his Awaclus exploit, but it was quite possible he would do that as scum, too. So I picked him.Even if it's not, I've decided to go ahead. I'm Worf, and faust and Space are NOT Maquis. Neither was Glooble, but you already know that.
Can you explain why you investigated those three?
Anyway, no point sitting on this I guess:Not useless, now faust is IC.
I'm Chief O'Brien, I like kayaking, mystery novels and long walks on the beach with the love of my lifeBashirKeiko.
Ash, Didds, and faust aren't Mirror Universe, but that's probably useless.
@WCD: let me rephrase: why do Space's lists make them more likely to be town in your opinion?
@UoS, that's excellent targeting on your part to give three clear results, plus yourself. That means if there is a MU team at all, from my perspective it's got to be three out of four of EFHW, raerae, Eddie and MiX. That seems really unlikely.
Rereading Space it's very very clear that they stop pushing the "EFHW or E is scum" case, even though it only became stronger after E's flip. It looks, well, out of place, because I just used that expression, I would assume Space would be all over EFHW right now. Like, really, Space stopped doing that because, and I quote:EFHW's play so far in D4 seems towny enough.
And hmm that's it. Space, how, exactly, is EFHW towny?
I'd actually like you to answer that please, Space.
I’m curious to see what raerae thinks of Space’s analysis in regard to MiX...
Already said, protecting Worf was important and every additional claim was making that worse.
I absolutely think EFHW's claim was a mistake.
I'm glad you like my Ash case btw.
Vote: Ash
I’m curious to see what raerae thinks of Space’s analysis in regard to MiX...
As long as there weren’t bus driving scenarios then you are correct, it is extremely unlikely that he is scum.
| Possible MU EFHW Space MiX UncleEddie raerae | Possible MQ UoS Didds MiX Ash Uncle raerae |
I'd like to clarify that, while he isn't technically an IC, it would be unfair to call him a wildcard.
I've been townreading him, I just wanted to put that out there so people weren't blindsided by the possibility in the future.
Regarding your MQ list, so obviously 2/6 of those are bad, which two would you bank on? Presumably MiX and...? From your list there it looks like Didds, maybe? Or UoS?
@EFHW, UoS: Please explain which night you targeted whom and why.Whoops some letters got lost to excitement. EBWOP.
MiX is being, at best, anti-townHow?
@faust: I don't have the time to go searching for my earlier comments but you've been pulling other people's stuff up pretty quickly, why should I bother?I don't understand the question.
@EFHW, UoS: Please explain wich ight you targeted whom and why.Already did, but in order Space, Glooble, faust. Not retyping the why.
Faust, would you mind spewing some of your hidden knowledge for finished?Yes.
Ah, sorry, missed that.@EFHW, UoS: Please explain wich ight you targeted whom and why.Already did, but in order Space, Glooble, faust. Not retyping the why.
Faust, would you mind spewing some of your hidden knowledge for finished?Yes.
Yes. I'm IC now, I don't think it is beneficial for me to share my reads at this point.Faust, would you mind spewing some of your hidden knowledge for finished?Yes.
Is the “Why Snow” bit too much as well?
Vote: UoS
I don't know. Do you?Vote: UoS
Do you believe there's any incentive to let Snow live 1 more day to get one more cop result? Because he might simply get NKd if there's MU...
I don't know. Do you?Vote: UoS
Do you believe there's any incentive to let Snow live 1 more day to get one more cop result? Because he might simply get NKd if there's MU...
Please don’t give cops passes (like MiX did in his immediate reaction to efoo).
This is the LaLight wagon as of #737:
LaLight (5): Uncleeurope, MiX, WestCoastDidds, UmbrageOfSnow, shraeye
How many Maquis are on there?
unvote
Please don’t give cops passes (like MiX did in his immediate reaction to efoo).Personally I am all for giving EFHW a pass.
This is the LaLight wagon as of #737:
LaLight (5): Uncleeurope, MiX, WestCoastDidds, UmbrageOfSnow, shraeye
How many Maquis are on there?
Please don’t give cops passes (like MiX did in his immediate reaction to efoo).Personally I am all for giving EFHW a pass.
Yeah, I pointed that out at #2210. I said "the game state at #750" in my post, I'm referring to the exact same wagon, which Shraeye jumped off and onto around then. I think it's slight evidence for a Maquis between raerae and Ash.I was surpsied that I missed this, then I read the post and saw that you used the phrase "not-definitely-non-Maquis" and udnerstood why I didn't parse it at the time.
Yes. I'm IC now, I don't think it is beneficial for me to share my reads at this point.Faust, would you mind spewing some of your hidden knowledge for finished?Yes.
Is the “Why Snow” bit too much as well?
How do you feel about our little Space wagon now?
I like being right.
This is the LaLight wagon as of #737:
LaLight (5): Uncleeurope, MiX, WestCoastDidds, UmbrageOfSnow, shraeye
How many Maquis are on there?
Yeah, I pointed that out at #2210. I said "the game state at #750" in my post, I'm referring to the exact same wagon, which Shraeye jumped off and onto around then. I think it's slight evidence for a Maquis between raerae and Ash.
Raerae insists we can't assume too much about how Shraeye would behave in the presence of partners, but I also think it's not just up to him, and staying on a wagon with both partners would involve the partners not losing their nerve and moving off somewhere else too. The first unflipped person to jump off that wagon was Eddie.
This is the LaLight wagon as of #737:
LaLight (5): Uncleeurope, MiX, WestCoastDidds, UmbrageOfSnow, shraeye
How many Maquis are on there?
Yeah, I pointed that out at #2210. I said "the game state at #750" in my post, I'm referring to the exact same wagon, which Shraeye jumped off and onto around then. I think it's slight evidence for a Maquis between raerae and Ash.
Raerae insists we can't assume too much about how Shraeye would behave in the presence of partners, but I also think it's not just up to him, and staying on a wagon with both partners would involve the partners not losing their nerve and moving off somewhere else too. The first unflipped person to jump off that wagon was Eddie.
Is this a scenario where I lose my nerve voting with a partner on a target? Because I doubt that would faze me. It at least hasn’t in the past.
And I’m saying I wouldn’t care.
Every game I have played on this site has had people close off potential partners based on voting in groups together. It’s why I did what I did last game.
I thought Didds was conf!Scum?
And if I am reading you right you are eliminating Snow and Didds as a partnership?
Come on it's really not that difficult.I thought Didds was conf!Scum?
And if I am reading you right you are eliminating Snow and Didds as a partnership?
Indeed. And that was before the wagon grab by faust, honestly didn't even see that SA had talked about it before because he didn't post it. Now I see Snow/ash or Didds/ash, before I just saw Didds/Snow
Come on it's really not that difficult.I thought Didds was conf!Scum?
And if I am reading you right you are eliminating Snow and Didds as a partnership?
Indeed. And that was before the wagon grab by faust, honestly didn't even see that SA had talked about it before because he didn't post it. Now I see Snow/ash or Didds/ash, before I just saw Didds/Snow
Please give me a few lines on why you are townreading raerae and Eddie.
This doesn't make sense to me. I said this before, but if I'm already on a wagon and my scum partner(s) join, I'm going to assume it was for a reason. They know I am there. If I leave the wagon, it will be for some combination of reasons and not the automatic reflex MiX is painting it as.This is the LaLight wagon as of #737:
LaLight (5): Uncleeurope, MiX, WestCoastDidds, UmbrageOfSnow, shraeye
How many Maquis are on there?
Yeah, I pointed that out at #2210. I said "the game state at #750" in my post, I'm referring to the exact same wagon, which Shraeye jumped off and onto around then. I think it's slight evidence for a Maquis between raerae and Ash.
Raerae insists we can't assume too much about how Shraeye would behave in the presence of partners, but I also think it's not just up to him, and staying on a wagon with both partners would involve the partners not losing their nerve and moving off somewhere else too. The first unflipped person to jump off that wagon was Eddie.
Is this a scenario where I lose my nerve voting with a partner on a target? Because I doubt that would faze me. It at least hasn’t in the past.
No, it's when you jump ship once you realize all of your scumteam's on the wagon.
The problem with jumping on a wagon that has your partners on it is that then you have to count on town making up the rest of the wagon. You are less likely to achieve the lynch if your team is a big part of the initial wagon. So, how serious were the wagon members about trying to get LL lynched?
Multiball doesn't really make much difference. The point is that you've given up your team's influence on the wagon actually going through by all being on it early. Better to pick wagons that have a lot of support from non-team people.The problem with jumping on a wagon that has your partners on it is that then you have to count on town making up the rest of the wagon. You are less likely to achieve the lynch if your team is a big part of the initial wagon. So, how serious were the wagon members about trying to get LL lynched?
Multiball! That's not as true as you present it.
MiX is being, at best, anti-townHow?
So if Shraeye wasn't that serious about getting LL lynched, he could have joined the wagon with 1 or more partners on it because of exactly the assumptions you are making.
MiX is being, at best, anti-townHow?
Oh come on, it's everything I've been yelling about since D2, you disagree so there's no point to this question.
No but there is. Right now all I am really aware of from your case is the Glooble thing, which really doesn't concern the way MiX played, so when you say that he is anti-town that means that there is more to your case that I have missed.MiX is being, at best, anti-townHow?
Oh come on, it's everything I've been yelling about since D2, you disagree so there's no point to this question.
No but there is. Right now all I am really aware of from your case is the Glooble thing, which really doesn't concern the way MiX played, so when you say that he is anti-town that means that there is more to your case that I have missed.MiX is being, at best, anti-townHow?
Oh come on, it's everything I've been yelling about since D2, you disagree so there's no point to this question.
No but there is. Right now all I am really aware of from your case is the Glooble thing, which really doesn't concern the way MiX played, so when you say that he is anti-town that means that there is more to your case that I have missed.MiX is being, at best, anti-townHow?
Oh come on, it's everything I've been yelling about since D2, you disagree so there's no point to this question.
I'll need a computer and it's going to be a wall post.
No but there is. Right now all I am really aware of from your case is the Glooble thing, which really doesn't concern the way MiX played, so when you say that he is anti-town that means that there is more to your case that I have missed.MiX is being, at best, anti-townHow?
Oh come on, it's everything I've been yelling about since D2, you disagree so there's no point to this question.
I'll need a computer and it's going to be a wall post.
I’m curious to see what raerae thinks of Space’s analysis in regard to MiX...
I am having a very difficult time seeing town!MiX. And saying "shraeye wouldn't do this to a scum buddy" holds zero weight with me because he would and, if I were more intrepid, I'm certain I could find a game where he did. The fact that MiX's lynch has been derailed three days in a row now is really bothering me. Maybe I'm wrong about him being shraeye's partner but I'm not wrong about him being scum. We've managed to lynch town every other day while MiX is being, at best, anti-town, why won't his lynch go through? Somebody has to be protecting him. Earlier today I started thinking that it might be faust and EFHW but clearly that's wrong. Basically, I don't know whether I'm being stubborn or just bad at convincing people I'm right. Probably both.
I feared this. No, no, this is so not top priority...well, whatever makes you vote somewhere productive works, maybe this is it, the day where I destroy your "case" and get NKd. Here we go, town V town battle!
I’m curious to see what raerae thinks of Space’s analysis in regard to MiX...
I am having a very difficult time seeing town!MiX. And saying "shraeye wouldn't do this to a scum buddy" holds zero weight with me because he would and, if I were more intrepid, I'm certain I could find a game where he did. The fact that MiX's lynch has been derailed three days in a row now is really bothering me. Maybe I'm wrong about him being shraeye's partner but I'm not wrong about him being scum. We've managed to lynch town every other day while MiX is being, at best, anti-town, why won't his lynch go through? Somebody has to be protecting him. Earlier today I started thinking that it might be faust and EFHW but clearly that's wrong. Basically, I don't know whether I'm being stubborn or just bad at convincing people I'm right. Probably both.
Interesting... I also find him anti-town. Space's description of him stirring the pot in anti-town ways seems apt, but I hadn't thought about the particular ways that even though he gathers lots of suspicion, that someone must be protecting. Someone (maybe EFHW?) that he is a likely candidate for the SK. Which means no one would be protecting him, necessarily, but rather that it serves scum purposes to keep him in the, uh, mix.
His certainty that I am scum rubs me the wrong way because I know it is anti-town and serves to derail our efforts to actually pin down scum. I don't know that I have much power of persuasion, but I am pretty good at being stubborn.
Anyway, care to guess why I voted for faust?
You missed the fact that he unvoted Uncle, didn't you?
Now, serious talk: anyone who knows Robz's meta, does he analyze setups? Does he like to break setups? Is he usually good at theory talk in general?
So, uncle claimed...well that makes him unlynchable, so he might as well be the IC for this day, right?
Vote: raerae, I happen to like e's reason to townread shraeye, and your vote seems like a good way to not play RVS, since he's not dying today.
And why can't shraeye be our lunch today? He seems just as on the table as everybody else?
@MiX, you never answered this, why can't shraeye be our lynch today?
Vote: LL
LaLight! I forgot about them!
The world is collapsing: I agree with Uncle for once. He's right, LL's not being himself. But hold on, didn't this happen last time? And he was mason? That game is key for a lot of meta talk...
Vote: LaLight while I skim M121 to see what LL did.
PPE 2: raerae, time to vote Jimmmmmm, cmon, gotta take that deal, my vote's still there in spirit
Your vote isn't on jimmmmmm, why are you advocating his lunch and voting elsewhere. Why is a jimmmmmm vote for enough for me but not for you? Spirit votes aren't worth anything I'm this game.
I'm not sure Umbrage is on LaLight's scummy list, but I think I am.
LaLight's reads are a whole lot of nothing; MiX makes a good point.
How is LL having a bunch of nulls different from anybody else having a bunch?
It's the "why bother writing it?" aspect. That and it seemed to be written in a way that sounded like a reads list. The fact that it took me a second read to see how fluff it was raises my suspicion.
vote: LL
What do you have to say now that there's a bunch of people trying to lynch you? Can you explain how you've been pro-town D1, for example?
And by a bunch he really just means one really loud e that is making your wagon sound a lot larger than it is.
Well, there's 2, then ., then 7, then 1, then 8, then 2, then 8... But I remember others talking about it, right?
As for your LL reread...well, clearly he's not active. But I really don't see an attempt at reversing that...Space did it, for example. LaLight's attempt to do so was a botched attempt to make a reads list which just has a bunch of nulls...something I expected if it was early in the day, but it wasn't. There were enough posts to talk about each person and at least say what he thought about them...we were left with barely any information about LL's thoughts and/or thought process, and that for me screams "eh, I'm not active anyway, I have an excuse to not do much this day, it's D1 anyway, 18 players how likely is it for me to get lynched", which is pretty scummy.
PPE too many, why Robz and not Jimmmmmmm? At least Jimmmmmmm has that weird comment that faust pointed out, Robz has nothing. And didn't we establish that that was part of his meta, both as town and scum? At least that's what I remember...
I'll copy faust and say that Robz votes are the laziest of them all, there's nothing on him. Nothing. Unless I missed something????? I still haven't heard e's reasons to vote for Robz!
Then why is he on your "would lynch" list??? Your reads are EVERYWHERE. I'm inherently mistrustful of being on any lynch with you because you just keep jumping to the one gaining the most steam. Frankly, it makes me what to vote for whoever you DON'T want to vote for.Yes: everyone that isn't on my read list. So I'll vote for LL, Jimmmmmm, Robz, e in that order...ah and Space. And then you, if people really want to... That's all. It's a lot of people, isn't it? But I prefer a flip to nothing here, at least we should try...
Non-Robz lynches aren't realistically going to happen with 40 minutes left and 10 people required for the lynch to go through.
But what if we believe with our heart of hearts and the power of will?
Not even then, there's 10 people active, we would have to change pretty much everyone's mind...
Remember UoS's plan regarding Garak? Well, I like conditionals, so if I'm Garak and if I use bus drive N1, I'll target Uncle and faust.
Does this make sense? We can all do this, it's free information if the night goes wrong and it's essencially misdirection for scum, unless they know who Garak is with Odo, but they won't know that now, which means this is FOOLPROOF! Right?
PPE 1: Welp.
What Robz post were you replying to? I...didn't find it. In fact, it doesn't exist. I am as confused as you are...you're clearly replying to this:I do see one for raerae, just because she's not doing much, and I remember her doing a LOT more in M121, am I wrong? I don't think I am...but this could very well be null, I don't know...
You even say "I really haven't done much this game" which is a direct quote from this. I don't know what to make of this blatant mistake and I'm not sure if you're joking or not.
About no reads...you seemed to have more reads in M121, particularly you were scumreading me and shraeye through D1 (and that's all I can truly remember of you that game...), here you're not too committed to any read. But I have to admit, you have townreads, so the problem is just on scumreads.
You were sheeping shraeye when you voted for ash, right? Let me look at it again...So how does that makes me an informative lynch for town? You're proposing a lynch of somebody who's few interactions are with somebody you have a townread on. That seems exceedingly unhelpful to town.
So, okay, you weren't sheeping shraeye...but who else was on him? And this is definitely OMGUS, your vote is entirely dependant on knowing that you're town, lynching someone who doesn't have a lot of interactions isn't scummy, it's just necessary sometimes. But we went over this in D1...and you didn't address it. Well I think you lost your scumread on ash, but you didn't say why, not like it matters.
Did you just ignore my question at the end? What was your reason to vote Jimmmmmmm?
That post was weird. You're being weird. I'm not as wrong as you say I am...so why all the defensiveness? Well, time for your rebutal.
I can't quote all this shit, here's the post I was replying to, we're both wrong, I should have said mcmc, you know, Robz' brother. His was post #673, mine was #675, yours was #653 so no, it isn't clear I was replying to you by using a name you aren't associated with 25 posts later.
So me saying I haven't done that much this game is a mistake? But isn't that why you're voting for me?
Re: M121, entirely different game, fewer players, far less setup speculation, it was easier for me to jump back into playing that because we were mostly just bullshitting. Plus, I hadn't just led town to their demise so I was more optimistic about my abilities.
re:sheeping shraeye and my ash vote, how can I be both sheeping and OMGUSing? I'm OMGUSing on behalf of a shraeye, I'm agreeing with shraeye's OMGUS? Dude, I hope you warmed up because you are stretching so hard right now it's insane. Also, don't, I can't say this strongly enough, if I say something is or isn't OMGUS (or anything else for that matter), you don't fucking get to rename it so it fits your narrative better. You don't get to decide my feelings on a subject for me.
I missed your question about Jimmmmm, I don't know why it's even a question though, I sold my vote to faust who told me to vote Jimmmmm. His case wasn't terrible so I agreed to the deal. This is public knowledge, why are you confused?
I can't quote all this shit, here's the post I was replying to, we're both wrong, I should have said mcmc, you know, Robz' brother. His was post #673, mine was #675, yours was #653 so no, it isn't clear I was replying to you by using a name you aren't associated with 25 posts later.
So me saying I haven't done that much this game is a mistake? But isn't that why you're voting for me?
Re: M121, entirely different game, fewer players, far less setup speculation, it was easier for me to jump back into playing that because we were mostly just bullshitting. Plus, I hadn't just led town to their demise so I was more optimistic about my abilities.
re:sheeping shraeye and my ash vote, how can I be both sheeping and OMGUSing? I'm OMGUSing on behalf of a shraeye, I'm agreeing with shraeye's OMGUS? Dude, I hope you warmed up because you are stretching so hard right now it's insane. Also, don't, I can't say this strongly enough, if I say something is or isn't OMGUS (or anything else for that matter), you don't fucking get to rename it so it fits your narrative better. You don't get to decide my feelings on a subject for me.
I missed your question about Jimmmmm, I don't know why it's even a question though, I sold my vote to faust who told me to vote Jimmmmm. His case wasn't terrible so I agreed to the deal. This is public knowledge, why are you confused?
Ha. I have to admit I didn't look for whatever post you where refering to, I just found a good non-Robz that I remembered (because I wrote it). Well that's awkward.
About M121...okay? Different game makes sense? But I don't know, I had my share of completely misreading every player there...of course it didn't matter as much as your reads, but, yeah; and all I want to do is read even more players, in case I actually get it right. Shouldn't excuse you for D1, but fine...that whole post is a pretty big reaction that can hopefully be used later, so I don't need to push you more.
It's not really sheeping as it is going to a wagon where shraeye was, since shraeye was pretty towny it would be reasonable to expect it to grow. Your reason to vote ash was discredited by mcmc a few posts later, but you didn't talk about it or move immediatly; you did, however, look for alternatives (that is, you wanted to vote for Jimmmmmmm).
I don't see why you would have to be honest with your reason to vote for people if you're scum, thus I see no reason to believe if a vote was OMGUS or not based on what you say. Right? Am I being confusing here? Not that you gain anything by lying, but you're always lying when voting as scum anyway and this is no different.
As for Jimmmmmm, why did you sell your vote to faust? Why not e, me, shraeye, I don't know, anyone else? And did you simply sheep his case or did you see anything else that was scummy? That's the answer I wanted, "why did you vote for Jimmmmm" is a good catch-all question for that, I think.
I hope this back-to-back posting gives information about me and raerae? I'll read what raerae said here critically later, I have to sleep now
PPE 1: I have no idea what happened in drunk mafia...so tired...
COMMUTER SHOULD NOT CLAIM WHETHER OR NOT THEY'VE USED THEIR SHOT YET! if we claim.
Jeez, chicken's dead, you don't need to yell at town like that. Of course everyone should assume commuter never commuted since we've always had 2 kills and all vigs are dead.
Hi Didds!
Who are your top two townreads among people other than me, EFHW or Space?
Hi Didds!
Who are your top two townreads among people other than me, EFHW or Space?
Hi faust! How delightful to be an IC!
Raerae... then maybe Ash? But with so many scum left and so few town left, I’m not sold on EFHW and Space. I feel pretty good about you, raerae, EFHW, and me. Not so good about the rest.
DAY 1:
Here he defends shraeye, calls him a townread, never did tell me why. To be fair, I put very little stock into D1 reads but he answered everybody else's questions for everything, just not this one.Anyway, care to guess why I voted for faust?
You missed the fact that he unvoted Uncle, didn't you?
Now, serious talk: anyone who knows Robz's meta, does he analyze setups? Does he like to break setups? Is he usually good at theory talk in general?
So, uncle claimed...well that makes him unlynchable, so he might as well be the IC for this day, right?
Vote: raerae, I happen to like e's reason to townread shraeye, and your vote seems like a good way to not play RVS, since he's not dying today.
And why can't shraeye be our lunch today? He seems just as on the table as everybody else?
@MiX, you never answered this, why can't shraeye be our lynch today?
D1 reads list that doesn't include the whole town but somehow does include nulls. I still don't understand why you'd include nulls if you aren't making a list of the whole town. Feels like there was an agenda behind it. You gave him a pass on it.
Voting LL but telling me to vote Jimmmmm, that just doesn't make any sense. Town don't generally advocate for multiple lynch candidates, they usually have a preference.Vote: LL
LaLight! I forgot about them!
The world is collapsing: I agree with Uncle for once. He's right, LL's not being himself. But hold on, didn't this happen last time? And he was mason? That game is key for a lot of meta talk...
Vote: LaLight while I skim M121 to see what LL did.
PPE 2: raerae, time to vote Jimmmmmm, cmon, gotta take that deal, my vote's still there in spirit
Your vote isn't on jimmmmmm, why are you advocating his lunch and voting elsewhere. Why is a jimmmmmm vote for enough for me but not for you? Spirit votes aren't worth anything I'm this game.
shraeye finds LL's nulls suspect but didn't say boo about MiX's.I'm not sure Umbrage is on LaLight's scummy list, but I think I am.
LaLight's reads are a whole lot of nothing; MiX makes a good point.
How is LL having a bunch of nulls different from anybody else having a bunch?
It's the "why bother writing it?" aspect. That and it seemed to be written in a way that sounded like a reads list. The fact that it took me a second read to see how fluff it was raises my suspicion.
This is a point I make D1 (that day was enormous) about him being willing to vote for anybody and everybody. That's fairly anti-town, wouldn't you agree? He's lynch happy and doesn't seem care who dies. He just kept jumping to the wagon gaining the most steam. That tells me that his partners weren't on the lynch table when he's happy with every option. Even Robz when he didn't have a scumread on him.vote: LL
What do you have to say now that there's a bunch of people trying to lynch you? Can you explain how you've been pro-town D1, for example?
And by a bunch he really just means one really loud e that is making your wagon sound a lot larger than it is.
Well, there's 2, then ., then 7, then 1, then 8, then 2, then 8... But I remember others talking about it, right?
As for your LL reread...well, clearly he's not active. But I really don't see an attempt at reversing that...Space did it, for example. LaLight's attempt to do so was a botched attempt to make a reads list which just has a bunch of nulls...something I expected if it was early in the day, but it wasn't. There were enough posts to talk about each person and at least say what he thought about them...we were left with barely any information about LL's thoughts and/or thought process, and that for me screams "eh, I'm not active anyway, I have an excuse to not do much this day, it's D1 anyway, 18 players how likely is it for me to get lynched", which is pretty scummy.
PPE too many, why Robz and not Jimmmmmmm? At least Jimmmmmmm has that weird comment that faust pointed out, Robz has nothing. And didn't we establish that that was part of his meta, both as town and scum? At least that's what I remember...
I'll copy faust and say that Robz votes are the laziest of them all, there's nothing on him. Nothing. Unless I missed something????? I still haven't heard e's reasons to vote for Robz!
Then why is he on your "would lynch" list??? Your reads are EVERYWHERE. I'm inherently mistrustful of being on any lynch with you because you just keep jumping to the one gaining the most steam. Frankly, it makes me what to vote for whoever you DON'T want to vote for.Yes: everyone that isn't on my read list. So I'll vote for LL, Jimmmmmm, Robz, e in that order...ah and Space. And then you, if people really want to... That's all. It's a lot of people, isn't it? But I prefer a flip to nothing here, at least we should try...
Found this, not sure if it's fishing or crumbing or neither. My gut says crumbing but I realize I'm real biased at this point.Non-Robz lynches aren't realistically going to happen with 40 minutes left and 10 people required for the lynch to go through.
But what if we believe with our heart of hearts and the power of will?
Not even then, there's 10 people active, we would have to change pretty much everyone's mind...
Remember UoS's plan regarding Garak? Well, I like conditionals, so if I'm Garak and if I use bus drive N1, I'll target Uncle and faust.
Does this make sense? We can all do this, it's free information if the night goes wrong and it's essencially misdirection for scum, unless they know who Garak is with Odo, but they won't know that now, which means this is FOOLPROOF! Right?
PPE 1: Welp.
DAY 2:
This is his "case" on me and my responses, it's so clearly shuffled together nonsense, he decided he wanted me to be scum and went back to try to force puzzle pieces together. That isn't necessarily enough to make him scummy but, as far as I'm concerned, does fall under the "Anti-Town" category but when he blatantly lies then, yeah, I'd say that falls under scummy.
He folded on my case and his case on Awaclus after receiving the tiniest amount of pressure.
D2cont./3/4:
My kid has developed a nasty diaper rash in the last couple hours so he's running around pantsless and I'm trying to prevent accidents.
Also, I have to work the evening shift so this is the best you're going to get.
Glooble's only scumread was MiX, I know how you feel about my Glooble case so, again, not sure why you wanted me to do this.
His commuter thing. Blatantly false, clearly baiting the commuter to come in and open a conversation on it.COMMUTER SHOULD NOT CLAIM WHETHER OR NOT THEY'VE USED THEIR SHOT YET! if we claim.
Jeez, chicken's dead, you don't need to yell at town like that. Of course everyone should assume commuter never commuted since we've always had 2 kills and all vigs are dead.
The other thing is, again, that he's still alive. I'm not that dangerous, I'm not a faust, I'm not an Ash, or Robz or anybody else like that, there's zero reason for scum to protect him unless he's a partner. I'm not saying I'm a slouch but really, nobody other than MAYBE shraeye is concerned with me reading them.
Everyone was townreading shraeye, it was the hot stuff! And yes, I did answer that, I was townreading shraeye and townreading E who was townreading shraeye, I didn't think he would ever be lynched that day. And I was right, he recieved basically no attention that day (or any day, really).Why were you townreading e on D1?
Approach it the other way around: if I'm town, why am I alive? And the answer will come out easily: because it's SO easy to push my mislynch that why bother? Scum has every intentions to let me slide across the days untill one of their own is in trouble, because when that happens they can simply say "MiX is scum lol" and bam free mislynch. I also seem to have the worst reads so I'm a good person to carry to LyLo, but I doubt I'm living that far.
Please don’t give cops passes (like MiX did in his immediate reaction to efoo).
Everyone was townreading shraeye, it was the hot stuff! And yes, I did answer that, I was townreading shraeye and townreading E who was townreading shraeye, I didn't think he would ever be lynched that day. And I was right, he recieved basically no attention that day (or any day, really).Why were you townreading e on D1?
Why do scum care if other scum are on a wagon?
Approach it the other way around: if I'm town, why am I alive? And the answer will come out easily: because it's SO easy to push my mislynch that why bother? Scum has every intentions to let me slide across the days untill one of their own is in trouble, because when that happens they can simply say "MiX is scum lol" and bam free mislynch. I also seem to have the worst reads so I'm a good person to carry to LyLo, but I doubt I'm living that far.
So why do you think scum is protecting you then?
Oh, MiX I guess, he voted me so soon afterwards I didn't parse that. Still, do you really think that's a thought other people were going to latch onto?
I feared this. No, no, this is so not top priority...well, whatever makes you vote somewhere productive works, maybe this is it, the day where I destroy your "case" and get NKd. Here we go, town V town battle!
I swear, every time MiX posts it looks like he has a nervous breakdown and changes his mind halfway through and I love it.
Because we weren't close to their scumteam? The wagons D3 sorta exemplify that, 3 townies that we were sure were scum. Pretty much everyone who has been getting suspicion is either me or dead, so they have no reason to lynch me yet. Why protect me? I don't know, sounds like a fun gambit, let MiX live more and dig his own grave, then we'll push his lynch when it's time. I would do it. If this actually happened then it was decided N2. It's hard to believe, I suppose...but do you see any other explanation? I get why raerae's thinking the way she's thinking, it's what I would think in her position too, but I know otherwise, so...yeah.Why is this a reason for scum to protect you and for this to be something you're interested in looking for as a means of scumhunting?
Because we weren't close to their scumteam? The wagons D3 sorta exemplify that, 3 townies that we were sure were scum. Pretty much everyone who has been getting suspicion is either me or dead, so they have no reason to lynch me yet. Why protect me? I don't know, sounds like a fun gambit, let MiX live more and dig his own grave, then we'll push his lynch when it's time. I would do it. If this actually happened then it was decided N2. It's hard to believe, I suppose...but do you see any other explanation? I get why raerae's thinking the way she's thinking, it's what I would think in her position too, but I know otherwise, so...yeah.Why is this a reason for scum to protect you and for this to be something you're interested in looking for as a means of scumhunting?
Why were you townreading e on D1?
I metaread him and he felt like he was doing normal town!e things. Minor, but...better than what I had on others for townieness.
Hi Didds!
Who are your top two townreads among people other than me, EFHW or Space?
Hi faust! How delightful to be an IC!
Raerae... then maybe Ash? But with so many scum left and so few town left, I’m not sold on EFHW and Space. I feel pretty good about you, raerae, EFHW, and me. Not so good about the rest.
Wait, are you pro EFHW or anti EFHW?
Space/MiX, could you two summarize the e case for me?
Well, I think e's scummy mostly out of a gut read: it seems that everyone I put in my "towny but not 100% town" list is scum: in M121 ss and Uncle were there (and arishipshape was even higher) and I ended D2 with shraeye as the single person in it...and now e's there. Otherwise I'm simply sheeping faust, I really like his case, it makes perfect sense...except the hammer that is, he could be a cop for all we know and wanted to not get NKd. But the rest's good. Now that I think about it, what has e done D2 and D3? I don't remember much. Well, D2 he started the lighting faust wagon but what else? I feel like town!e would be doing much, MUCH more but I'll need to reread that.
What do you think of faust?
@WCD: Is it anti-town to scumread you in general or is it something about how MiX did it?
@WCD: Is it anti-town to scumread you in general or is it something about how MiX did it?
The way he did/does it. He puts me into conf!scum language and then uses it to structure all of his other thoughts. Which would be okay, I guess, if I was scum. But I’m not! So, I see it as hurting town because when/if I get lynched and then another town or two gets NK’ed, town loses. I’m town, so that is not the result I’m looking to achieve. But the two other teams (I know, might just be a team and a serial killer) could care less if town loses as long as they win. It’s one thing to keep a scummy list and I know the contingency that marks my use of language rubs lots of folks the wrong way (see Eddie calling me a waffle) might keep me on the list. But if he, or anyone else, assumes I’m scum for the purposes of reading others, that sucks for town because we’re going to lose. I don’t like losing. I don’t like losing when I’m playing badly (imperial Radch game) and I especially don’t like losing because someone else is playing badly. This is MiX playing badly.
Okay that changes everything. EVERYTHING. How could I be so wrong?
Possible Maquis: ash, UoS, Didds, Uncle, raerae. Of these, Didds is clearly Maquis...my money's on snow or Uncle for the other Maquis for sure...as for MU, probably still EFHW/Space, but we'll wait for more info on that. I need to sleep on this information, hopefully I'll be back with better reads.
For the love of god don't lynch me because I have bad reads. Man I feel like an idiot now.
And this is Didds overreacting to someone finding her scummy, AGAIN. Seriously, if you're town, cool off! I rapidly unvoted you for a reason. If you listen to my arguments pre-Wolf claim, you'd understand why I would instinctively think you're scum. In fact I still think you are, but that's another story. I was actually using my scumread on EFHW to read others, mostly Space, weird that you flip it on yourself. Yes, of course people scumreading you hurts your team, but the problem is I don't KNOW your team... I'm biased but I'm not convinced by this argument and I wouldn't understand anyone else (you're conf!town to yourself so you can say this) thinking this is scummy.
And this is Didds overreacting to someone finding her scummy, AGAIN. Seriously, if you're town, cool off! I rapidly unvoted you for a reason. If you listen to my arguments pre-Wolf claim, you'd understand why I would instinctively think you're scum. In fact I still think you are, but that's another story. I was actually using my scumread on EFHW to read others, mostly Space, weird that you flip it on yourself. Yes, of course people scumreading you hurts your team, but the problem is I don't KNOW your team... I'm biased but I'm not convinced by this argument and I wouldn't understand anyone else (you're conf!town to yourself so you can say this) thinking this is scummy.
I am not overreacting, I was responding to UoS question. I didn't say anything to you when you made this claim because I am not trying to convince you.
In is inaccurate for you to say that you made that claim (WCD = conf!Maquis) before EFHW's results, though. You did it at 2256. Eddie asked you about it at 2269. So, don't make it sound like I am dredging something up from long ago. You may have changed your mind because your vote is elsewhere currently, but again...I was responding to UoS, not you.
Hi Didds!
Who are your top two townreads among people other than me, EFHW or Space?
Hi faust! How delightful to be an IC!
Raerae... then maybe Ash? But with so many scum left and so few town left, I’m not sold on EFHW and Space. I feel pretty good about you, raerae, EFHW, and me. Not so good about the rest.
Wait, are you pro EFHW or anti EFHW?
Hi Didds!
Who are your top two townreads among people other than me, EFHW or Space?
Hi faust! How delightful to be an IC!
Raerae... then maybe Ash? But with so many scum left and so few town left, I’m not sold on EFHW and Space. I feel pretty good about you, raerae, EFHW, and me. Not so good about the rest.
Wait, are you pro EFHW or anti EFHW?
@WCD
Did you answer this and I missed it?
Hi Didds!
Who are your top two townreads among people other than me, EFHW or Space?
Hi faust! How delightful to be an IC!
Raerae... then maybe Ash? But with so many scum left and so few town left, I’m not sold on EFHW and Space. I feel pretty good about you, raerae, EFHW, and me. Not so good about the rest.
Wait, are you pro EFHW or anti EFHW?
I’m finding her helpful so towncred. But she could also be the serial killer, and so not fully conf!town. So I’m mostly pro, but also wary.
I did, Eddie. Scroll up. I’m on my phone, otherwise I’d do it for you.
I want to Vote: Uncle right now. Not only is he the only Maquis that could be on Awaclus' wagon, he's also the most likely scumbuddy for both Didds and Snow if you consider the #750 LL wagon that suggests that Didds and Snow aren't Maquis together...
More arguments: from my perspective, either Snow or Uncle are scum: otherwise, it would be (ash, raerae), (ash, Didds) or (Didds, raerae), which I believe aren't possible (raerae's pretty damn towny and by my wagon at the end of D2 I don't think ash's Maquis with Didds); with this...no, sadly I can't deduce anything else. I tried, but I can't. I'm pretty certain one of these is scum now, but that might change, like everything else. Someone stop me from changing my reads untill 18 hours have passed from now, during that time I'll be on mobile and away from my VCAs. Hopefully tomorrow I'll post everything I have on Snow and Uncle, but I don't have time to organize it right now.
PPE 1: That's also something destroying scumhunting plans to see who's not scumreading me: faust was the one defending me the most and he's the IC.
I did, Eddie. Scroll up. I’m on my phone, otherwise I’d do it for you.
MiX quoted you for me, you good.
Possible MU
EFHW
Space
MiX
UncleEddie
raeraePossible MQ
UoS
Didds
MiX
Ash
Uncle
raerae
| Possible MU EFHW Space MiX UncleEddie raerae | Possible MQ UoS Didds MiX Ash Uncle raerae | Possible SK UoS Didds MiX Ash Uncle raerae EFHW Space |
I don't know who benefits more, only that I personally would benefit, and I am feeling selfish.How would you benefit?
It makes me happy knowing things like that.
It makes me happy knowing things like that.
Tell me precisely and exactly how outing commuter and bulletproof helps town, among the other roles. This just looks like misdirection.
It makes me happy knowing things like that.
Tell me precisely and exactly how outing commuter and bulletproof helps town, among the other roles. This just looks like misdirection.
It might not, which is why I asked.
And said it was selfish.
Oh my goodness, at least let everyone respond first.
Didds/Snow
Didds/Ash
Ash/Mix
Maaaybe Snow/MiX
I would happily Vote: Didds
See?
If I were to trust only my own opinion things would be different, as it stands, I am going to vote for who people want to vote for the most, and it wasn’t (isn’t?) Didds, so I voted Snow.
That being said, I could just as easily Vote: MiX or Vote: Ash
But I think I will stick to my Vote: Snow for now.
Also, Raerae isn’t townie. Raerae just isn’t scummy.
Do you think I am scum? Or just useless? Are you going to vote for me? Or just point at me?
Also, that’s quite a flip from you saying I am probably town to voting for me. Seems opportunistic.
What changed between you calling me likely town and voting me?
Why is Ash Didds unlikely?
And when did this realization take place? This just suddenly occurred to you that “Didds and Uncle be the dinamic duo?”
MiX (4): raerae, ashersky, shraeye, WestCoastDidds,Awaclus (8): faust, Glooble, DatSwan, chickenwarlord, Uncleeurope, MiX, SpaceAnemone, 2.71828.....
Glooble (1): EFHW
faust (2): Awaclus, UmbrageOfSnow
We have not talked probability in a while. I am redoing those calculations trying to take everything that we know inot account. The relevant data is:
- I am IC
- ash, WCD, UoS are not MU
- the Neighbors, DatSwan and shraeye could never have been SK
- DatSwan did not target the SK N2
This gives me a result of
SK + Maquis: 84%
MU + Maquis: 16%
Oh, fair call. Didds-Ash is unlikely.
We have not talked probability in a while. I am redoing those calculations trying to take everything that we know inot account. The relevant data is:
- I am IC
- ash, WCD, UoS are not MU
- the Neighbors, DatSwan and shraeye could never have been SK
- DatSwan did not target the SK N2
This gives me a result of
SK + Maquis: 84%
MU + Maquis: 16%
This is helpful! Thank you
As far as Eddie’s desire for claims, I’m not sure what makes it more helpful now than it was 72 hours ago when it fizzled. What’s different now?
Oh, fair call. Didds-Ash is unlikely.
Hmmmmm, I expected you to say that they would stick together precisely because of what I'm saying. Why do you think this is not the case? I know why, but I want to see if you know too.
PPE 1: how happy were you that you got Uncle as a scumbuddy in drunk mafia? Serious question, what do you think of Eddie?
By the way, back to snow, but him being adamantly townreading two people and then bringing it up later is scummy to me. Mafia isn’t that great a place for “I told you so’s” as they often end up really meaning “Hey, guys remember this!”
Oh, fair call. Didds-Ash is unlikely.
Hmmmmm, I expected you to say that they would stick together precisely because of what I'm saying. Why do you think this is not the case? I know why, but I want to see if you know too.
PPE 1: how happy were you that you got Uncle as a scumbuddy in drunk mafia? Serious question, what do you think of Eddie?
That said, I appreciate that he engages regularly, but overall I think he is shifty and cavalier with his votes. He so thoroughly decimates any VCA that he can’t help but look scummy, and that seems strategic because he can’t be pinned down. It’s almost like a MU Awaclus.
That said, I appreciate that he engages regularly, but overall I think he is shifty and cavalier with his votes. He so thoroughly decimates any VCA that he can’t help but look scummy, and that seems strategic because he can’t be pinned down. It’s almost like a MU Awaclus.
Odd...I think the VCA incriminates him...heavily so, in fact. Did you do any VCA this game? Er...do you like doing those?
That said, I appreciate that he engages regularly, but overall I think he is shifty and cavalier with his votes. He so thoroughly decimates any VCA that he can’t help but look scummy, and that seems strategic because he can’t be pinned down. It’s almost like a MU Awaclus.
Odd...I think the VCA incriminates him...heavily so, in fact. Did you do any VCA this game? Er...do you like doing those?
I can’t say that I do it much because I’m not sure it helps me see more clearly until things get smaller. It’s too many things to hold in my mind at once. In the post of space’s where she shows who each of us has voted for....he had voted for almost everyone. So, I find that shifty, but where he is for any moment seems flighty. He votes for three people in a single post. I learn nothing from that. I don’t know if it’s annoying or scummy, though. Again, MU Awaclus, because that is what I always think about him.
That said, I appreciate that he engages regularly, but overall I think he is shifty and cavalier with his votes. He so thoroughly decimates any VCA that he can’t help but look scummy, and that seems strategic because he can’t be pinned down. It’s almost like a MU Awaclus.
Odd...I think the VCA incriminates him...heavily so, in fact. Did you do any VCA this game? Er...do you like doing those?
I can’t say that I do it much because I’m not sure it helps me see more clearly until things get smaller. It’s too many things to hold in my mind at once. In the post of space’s where she shows who each of us has voted for....he had voted for almost everyone. So, I find that shifty, but where he is for any moment seems flighty. He votes for three people in a single post. I learn nothing from that. I don’t know if it’s annoying or scummy, though. Again, MU Awaclus, because that is what I always think about him.
You find that shady about him but he was exactly the opposite in our last game where he was scum. He was thoughtful, careful, and restrained. He's reading town to me exactly because of his all over nature this game.
That said, I appreciate that he engages regularly, but overall I think he is shifty and cavalier with his votes. He so thoroughly decimates any VCA that he can’t help but look scummy, and that seems strategic because he can’t be pinned down. It’s almost like a MU Awaclus.
Odd...I think the VCA incriminates him...heavily so, in fact. Did you do any VCA this game? Er...do you like doing those?
I can’t say that I do it much because I’m not sure it helps me see more clearly until things get smaller. It’s too many things to hold in my mind at once. In the post of space’s where she shows who each of us has voted for....he had voted for almost everyone. So, I find that shifty, but where he is for any moment seems flighty. He votes for three people in a single post. I learn nothing from that. I don’t know if it’s annoying or scummy, though. Again, MU Awaclus, because that is what I always think about him.
You find that shady about him but he was exactly the opposite in our last game where he was scum. He was thoughtful, careful, and restrained. He's reading town to me exactly because of his all over nature this game.
Right??? But the votes incriminate him this game. Not sure what to think of him, but I believe he would completely flip it this game...
Eddie, I can't ISO your posts. Can you put in a ShuffleIt username, or a distinguishing bit of personal text? Thanks.
Tried that, didn't work. I'll try it again.Eddie, I can't ISO your posts. Can you put in a ShuffleIt username, or a distinguishing bit of personal text? Thanks.
If you search for "Uncleeurope Eddie", it works to find him, because it's in his sig.
I would like UoS to clarify some things.
1st you soft-claimed Garak.
Then you claimed O'Brian.
Then you said it was a mistake for me to claim.
Why did you soft-claim in the first place? And why Garak? Did you realize that's how your post sounded? You say my claim was a mistake, but it has actually been very helpful to the POE today. You can have your opinion, of course, but I'm confused why you think that when you were the one to revive the claiming topic.
You said you were trying to protect Worf. How? Don't you think it was already pretty obvious I was Worf?
Why don't you think your role is valuable? Are you convinced there is no MU and if so, when did you decide that? Also, did you not see that your results made faust IC?
The joke here is that we were right, you were wrong, yet you want to play the "I told you so" card. So, tell me, when were you right and can you provide quotes of when you said that?
EFHW, I'm touched. But I still think you're scum. Alas, you're probably going to die tonight...so I shouldn't bother.
The joke here is that we were right, you were wrong, yet you want to play the "I told you so" card. So, tell me, when were you right and can you provide quotes of when you said that?
EFHW, I'm touched. But I still think you're scum. Alas, you're probably going to die tonight...so I shouldn't bother.
My first response to this violates the civility pledge, so I'm out for a few hours.
I think a few Itoldyousos are warranted when everyone spends the entire game ignoring me and blindly sheeping faust while multiple people lament the impossibility of ever lynching scum and want to claim because how could we ever proceed with scumhunting without just lynching people based on claims?Well I think the claims we have are very useful. What do your scumreads look like by the way?
And now everyone has dropped that which is on one hand a return to sanity but why were they saying that stuff in the first place?
I really deeply want faust to be scum here, I know he can
Honestly, that was a lot of pages for the raerae/mix thing. I skimmed most of it. I prefer to lynch there to make it stop.
There should be no more claims, unless forced at L-1. Role usefulness comes with anonymity.
Everyone is still scummy. What the heck.
Honestly, that was a lot of pages for the raerae/mix thing. I skimmed most of it. I prefer to lynch there to make it stop.
There should be no more claims, unless forced at L-1. Role usefulness comes with anonymity.
Everyone is still scummy. What the heck.
This is a scummy post.
Partly we just finished a game as scum together and I kind of think if Awaclus was scum here he might play along or dismiss me differently to get me to townread him. There's also something in his tone. It's hard to explain, I'm not certain I'm the Awaclus-whisperer but I'm lean-town on him here.
Thar be scum in these here players.This faust wagon happened really fast and I'm not super into it.Hard no on that bs faust wagon. What in the actual hell??faust wagon materializing out of nowhere stinks real bad.The faust wagon is stinking up the joint!
Honestly, that was a lot of pages for the raerae/mix thing. I skimmed most of it. I prefer to lynch there to make it stop.
There should be no more claims, unless forced at L-1. Role usefulness comes with anonymity.
Everyone is still scummy. What the heck.
This is a scummy post.
Why?
Honestly, that was a lot of pages for the raerae/mix thing. I skimmed most of it. I prefer to lynch there to make it stop.
There should be no more claims, unless forced at L-1. Role usefulness comes with anonymity.
Everyone is still scummy. What the heck.
This is a scummy post.
Why?
Do you find the thing townie?
It’s saying nothing other than soft pushing yourself and a player you believe to be town. Setting up arbitrary lynching rules like that severely hampers towns ability to find scum properly. Plus it just kind of says everyone is scummy with a shrug.
Basically, Ash has been doing everything you are scumreading me for, acusing everyone, and messing with VCA, he isn’t on ANY VCA because he never votes.
He just hammers.
I am trying to generate reactions and partner reads of protection with my votes.
And my previous floundering about claiming was to see if anyone was pro-claiming at this point, something that would have set my alarm bells off as being scummy. (Read: it was a test)
Nice "test"...I don't buy it.
Well done. Now bus your partner and get it over with.
Nice "test"...I don't buy it.
Yeah, well, I have the ability to play this game as scum without saying overtly scummy things. And as Snow would attest (if he's feeling helpful), I like testing people on topics as town.
Well done. Now bus your partner and get it over with.
Gladly.
Oh, sorry, assumed you were talking about Ash, since that was who I was pushing to lynch in that post...
Oh, sorry, assumed you were talking about Ash, since that was who I was pushing to lynch in that post...
If you were already bussing your partner I wouldn't have to ask you to do such a thing :P But seriously that whole exchange made you a tiny bit townier and I'm scumreading you for it. Yeah...
Oh, sorry, assumed you were talking about Ash, since that was who I was pushing to lynch in that post...
If you were already bussing your partner I wouldn't have to ask you to do such a thing :P But seriously that whole exchange made you a tiny bit townier and I'm scumreading you for it. Yeah...
As you well should, If I am acting townie, that probably means I am scum. You can only trust me if I'm scum.
faust, are you going to comment on the MiX thing since your insistence is the only reason I did that?
I am becoming increasingly aware of Ash/MiX by the way
Haven’t brought it up because I’ve mainly been talking to MiX, but it’s a thing happening in my head, so there ya go.
What about Ash Snow?
I am becoming increasingly aware of Ash/MiX by the way
Haven’t brought it up because I’ve mainly been talking to MiX, but it’s a thing happening in my head, so there ya go.
I am becoming increasingly aware of Ash/MiX by the way
Haven’t brought it up because I’ve mainly been talking to MiX, but it’s a thing happening in my head, so there ya go.
Mainly because MiX removes Ash from a wagon e was on just for hammering it.
And loads of pairings MiX has been throwing out during this whole process have included Ash but I don’t remember him voting Ash once.
Remembering another player eliminating scum teams is a whole lot easier when you know thy are wrong.
It stuck in my head for days that Faust eliminates our exact scum config in a post, and I also wanted to point at that regularly. Doesn’t make Snow right, though.
I am becoming increasingly aware of Ash/MiX by the way
Haven’t brought it up because I’ve mainly been talking to MiX, but it’s a thing happening in my head, so there ya go.
Mainly because MiX removes Ash from a wagon e was on just for hammering it.
And loads of pairings MiX has been throwing out during this whole process have included Ash but I don’t remember him voting Ash once.
Ash is the townier of all pairs with him. Also, I wouldn't be that obvious about the hammer thing if he was my scumbuddy. WIFOM!
Remembering another player eliminating scum teams is a whole lot easier when you know thy are wrong.
It stuck in my head for days that Faust eliminates our exact scum config in a post, and I also wanted to point at that regularly. Doesn’t make Snow right, though.
Speaking of last game of that wasn’t clear.
While I'm at it...how come no-one mentioned ash!plans? Severely dissapointed.
I've been waiting for someone to jump on Ash for not having a plan, or Ash to roll out some half-baked plan to satisfy the masses.
The fact that he hasn't gives me a townread on Ash here, I think he caves to his own meta as scum. The fact that you bring it up... well it cancels out the townpoints I was giving you for actually seeming to look at Faust when I mentioned it.
...
Sigh. Then I read the next page and see Ash trying to find things to make up plans about right after you post this. I guess we can get out of this that Ash and MiX at least aren't on the same scumteam...
I am becoming increasingly aware of Ash/MiX by the way
Haven’t brought it up because I’ve mainly been talking to MiX, but it’s a thing happening in my head, so there ya go.
Mainly because MiX removes Ash from a wagon e was on just for hammering it.
And loads of pairings MiX has been throwing out during this whole process have included Ash but I don’t remember him voting Ash once.
Ash is the townier of all pairs with him. Also, I wouldn't be that obvious about the hammer thing if he was my scumbuddy. WIFOM!
You think Ash is townier than Didds/Me/Snow?
Why? For each of them, please.
I don’t really care what Sbow thought day one.
So it is minor and ineffective when it comes to me.
And not voting for the intersection of all team reads is super scummy.
Him being dead clears or confirms every other read you have.
At the risk of reading too much into this, why are you asking the IC to do things? I think a simple reminder's all you needed to do, but maybe that's what a simple reminder is.
At the risk of reading too much into this, why are you asking the IC to do things? I think a simple reminder's all you needed to do, but maybe that's what a simple reminder is.
So I'm not allowed to ask the high and mighty IC questions? You're his keeper? I'm supposed to run everything through you first to make sure it's appropriate for his sensitive and precious ears? Please, keep me apprised of the status of my request, I'm assuming I'll receive a response in 7-10 business days?
faust, are you going to comment on the MiX thing since your insistence is the only reason I did that?I will comment in due time.
What do you think of Didds/Snow/Uncle?
Also UE scumslipped and appears to have severe “caught me for the wrong reasons” disease.
Also UE scumslipped and appears to have severe “caught me for the wrong reasons” disease.
You can share the scumtell...it’s sort of fair play to only use it once against a player.
We are not lynching ash today. People voting there should reconsider.
Who is "we"? "We are not lynching someone" is different from "we are lynching someone".We are not lynching ash today. People voting there should reconsider.
Who are we considering?!
We are not lynching ash today. People voting there should reconsider.
Who are we considering?!
Who is "we"? "We are not lynching someone" is different from "we are lynching someone".We are not lynching ash today. People voting there should reconsider.
Who are we considering?!
Who is "we"? "We are not lynching someone" is different from "we are lynching someone".We are not lynching ash today. People voting there should reconsider.
Who are we considering?!
No. And sheeping the IC is pretty scummy. He's keeping quiet to avoid people hiding behind his opinions and not stating their own.We are not lynching ash today. People voting there should reconsider.
Who are we considering?!
Eddie, me and in some other universe Snow. The IC might have a different opinion, but he will make himself heard, faust is good like that.
Great answer: why aren't you voting for Eddie then? Let's see if I can see which post you're talking about...Who is "we"? "We are not lynching someone" is different from "we are lynching someone".We are not lynching ash today. People voting there should reconsider.
Who are we considering?!
Good point. "We" is probably faust, right?
You tell me!We are not lynching ash today. People voting there should reconsider.
Who are we considering?!
You tell me!We are not lynching ash today. People voting there should reconsider.
Who are we considering?!
You tell me!We are not lynching ash today. People voting there should reconsider.
Who are we considering?!
Well, I am considering MiX or Eddie. But the certainty with which you took Ash off the table made me curious, and the Royal We made me wonder if you could take Brexit off the table.
I am the IC after all, which is sort of like being the Queen or the Pope.You tell me!We are not lynching ash today. People voting there should reconsider.
Who are we considering?!
Well, I am considering MiX or Eddie. But the certainty with which you took Ash off the table made me curious, and the Royal We made me wonder if you could take Brexit off the table.
I am the IC after all, which is sort of like being the Queen or the Pope.You tell me!We are not lynching ash today. People voting there should reconsider.
Who are we considering?!
Well, I am considering MiX or Eddie. But the certainty with which you took Ash off the table made me curious, and the Royal We made me wonder if you could take Brexit off the table.
People’s trust in me is unaffected by my claim, I am hardly an IC, and the primary reason for me not being lynched today is to not hurt another player, who might even be scum for all we know.
...
Is there anyway we can wrap this day up prior to deadline? Or at least get closer than we currently are? Going down to the wire hasn't helped us all game and, selfishly, it's looking like I won't be around for deadline again.
Is there anyway we can wrap this day up prior to deadline? Or at least get closer than we currently are? Going down to the wire hasn't helped us all game and, selfishly, it's looking like I won't be around for deadline again.I'm going to share some thoughts, but I would like to hear from Eddie and UoS first.
Eddie, I know it's been awhile, but can you explain what you meant here by not hurting another player?People’s trust in me is unaffected by my claim, I am hardly an IC, and the primary reason for me not being lynched today is to not hurt another player, who might even be scum for all we know.
...
Eddie, I know it's been awhile, but can you explain what you meant here by not hurting another player?People’s trust in me is unaffected by my claim, I am hardly an IC, and the primary reason for me not being lynched today is to not hurt another player, who might even be scum for all we know.
...
The UB was the reason I wasn’t being policy lynched.
MiX, why did you ask a question with such an obvious answer?Eddie, I know it's been awhile, but can you explain what you meant here by not hurting another player?People’s trust in me is unaffected by my claim, I am hardly an IC, and the primary reason for me not being lynched today is to not hurt another player, who might even be scum for all we know.
...
The UB was the reason I wasn’t being policy lynched.
EFHW, why did you ask a question with such an obvious answer?
MiX, why did you ask a question with such an obvious answer?Eddie, I know it's been awhile, but can you explain what you meant here by not hurting another player?People’s trust in me is unaffected by my claim, I am hardly an IC, and the primary reason for me not being lynched today is to not hurt another player, who might even be scum for all we know.
...
The UB was the reason I wasn’t being policy lynched.
EFHW, why did you ask a question with such an obvious answer?
Is there anyway we can wrap this day up prior to deadline? Or at least get closer than we currently are? Going down to the wire hasn't helped us all game and, selfishly, it's looking like I won't be around for deadline again.I'm going to share some thoughts, but I would like to hear from Eddie and UoS first.
I'm waiting for you to do that.Is there anyway we can wrap this day up prior to deadline? Or at least get closer than we currently are? Going down to the wire hasn't helped us all game and, selfishly, it's looking like I won't be around for deadline again.I'm going to share some thoughts, but I would like to hear from Eddie and UoS first.
What do you want to know? I will move off of Ash onto either Didds or Snow.
Is there anyway we can wrap this day up prior to deadline? Or at least get closer than we currently are? Going down to the wire hasn't helped us all game and, selfishly, it's looking like I won't be around for deadline again.I'm going to share some thoughts, but I would like to hear from Eddie and UoS first.
What do you want to know? I will move off of Ash onto either Didds or Snow.
I only skimmed have to drive to class like, now, once I get to the school I will be able to post some.
AMA, I will try to get to it in an hour.
Ok, right. Forgot about the UB.
Is there anyway we can wrap this day up prior to deadline? Or at least get closer than we currently are? Going down to the wire hasn't helped us all game and, selfishly, it's looking like I won't be around for deadline again.I'm going to share some thoughts, but I would like to hear from Eddie and UoS first.
What do you want to know? I will move off of Ash onto either Didds or Snow.
I only skimmed have to drive to class like, now, once I get to the school I will be able to post some.
AMA, I will try to get to it in an hour.
Not moving to me is literally something only scum would do. Ladies and gentlemen, this is the smoking gun that proves that Eddie's scum. I rest my case. Notice how ash/didds makes no sense and he thought it was ash/me and...yep. He's scum. Finally, I'm right!
You tell me!We are not lynching ash today. People voting there should reconsider.
Who are we considering?!
Well, I am considering MiX or Eddie. But the certainty with which you took Ash off the table made me curious, and the Royal We made me wonder if you could take Brexit off the table.
Also, yes, I should absolutely vote.
However, right now (i.e. barely keeping up from work) all this chatter by MiX and Eddie is a bit impenetrable. I'm definitely considering WCD as a solid vote choice.. I haven't yet followed why MiX seems to be suggesting that people should want to vote him instead of her, but I'll try and unpick some more of it later.
Since it is getting late, here are some things to consider.
- the likelihood of 2 teams is still relevant. For this reason I would prefer to lynch among the group that has not been cleared for either team. This is Eddie/MiX/raerae.
- Eddie is a liabillity if he is town. Going into LyLo while he is alive is a risk.
- Eddie claimed Gul Dukat, but we do not know if that is true. He could have swapped claims with a scum partner. If he did, then we cannot trust Cop results. We should make sure on this.
- Eddie has spent most of this Day trying to get two claimed PRs that could be dangerous to scum lynched.
For the record I think I played well. Sorry if I confused a lot of town in the process, wasn't intentional.
For the record: Raerae not commenting on me being voted up seems significant to me, although since I've been townreading her I don't know what that means.
MiX's infatuation with my death seems weird to me as well. I look forward to my flip for that alone.
It's not my fault that the scummy people have good roles.
For the record I think I played well. Sorry if I confused a lot of town in the process, wasn't intentional.
For the record: Raerae not commenting on me being voted up seems significant to me, although since I've been townreading her I don't know what that means.
MiX's infatuation with my death seems weird to me as well. I look forward to my flip for that alone.
It's not my fault that the scummy people have good roles.
Dude, I've been vocal about you town reading you. Don't throw that mud my way.
For the record I think I played well. Sorry if I confused a lot of town in the process, wasn't intentional.
For the record: Raerae not commenting on me being voted up seems significant to me, although since I've been townreading her I don't know what that means.
MiX's infatuation with my death seems weird to me as well. I look forward to my flip for that alone.
It's not my fault that the scummy people have good roles.
Dude, I've been vocal about you town reading you. Don't throw that mud my way.
Claiming GF as someone else is incredibly risky. I just...don't understand why no one realized that. If GF gets, say, NKd, or just lynched, you die instantly.
Uncle, if you're town...say everything. Everything. I...can't accept you're town. But I'll try, while you're alive. So, say it. Hide nothing. And...please flip scum. That's all I ask.
If you are town...and Garak is scum...we almost lose. That would be...devastating.For the record I think I played well. Sorry if I confused a lot of town in the process, wasn't intentional.
For the record: Raerae not commenting on me being voted up seems significant to me, although since I've been townreading her I don't know what that means.
MiX's infatuation with my death seems weird to me as well. I look forward to my flip for that alone.
It's not my fault that the scummy people have good roles.
Dude, I've been vocal about you town reading you. Don't throw that mud my way.
If he's town, then I understand this. I don't, but...from his position he sees town vs town and someone being townread by everyone in the sidelines. I would also suspect you.
For the record I think I played well. Sorry if I confused a lot of town in the process, wasn't intentional.
For the record: Raerae not commenting on me being voted up seems significant to me, although since I've been townreading her I don't know what that means.
MiX's infatuation with my death seems weird to me as well. I look forward to my flip for that alone.
It's not my fault that the scummy people have good roles.
Dude, I've been vocal about you town reading you. Don't throw that mud my way.
I'm ready to vote MiX, now.
Self Preservation Mode: Activated
Vote: MiX
Well I think that I am town and Ash has a high likelihood of being scum, so where does that leave you?
And I will answer any questions people have, of course, but I don't know what you mean by everything.
And I refuse to follow your demand to flip scum.
Hey, Raerae, would you kill Snow over me?
Hey, Raerae, would you kill Snow over me?
Eddie, why are you not pushing MiX? Am I missing something?
What about Ash/Didds over me?
What about Ash/Didds over me?
Didds over Ash over you.
What about Ash/Didds over me?
Didds over Ash over you.
Ooh, nice, they are sorted, where would you stick snow in the list?
Rae, do you take old school notes with a pen? Because I totally do!
Eddie, is MiX town?
Rae, do you take old school notes with a pen? Because I totally do!
Eddie, is MiX town?
Rae, do you take old school notes with a pen? Because I totally do!
Eddie, is MiX town?
You know it! I am a very old lady down to my core. Get off my lawn, you youngsters!!
Rae, do you take old school notes with a pen? Because I totally do!
Eddie, is MiX town?
You know it! I am a very old lady down to my core. Get off my lawn, you youngsters!!
Ah, yeah! Gertie and Bertie on the loose!
[MiX is] Less town than I am.
I feel like I am being hammer tested.
His posts all game have felt fairly genuine, along with his scum hunting. My only issue is that some of his motivations and insight into other player’s perspectives seems exceptionally flawed.
I haven’t seen him play scum yet (well, maybe) so I don’t know how easily he can replicate his town insanity as scum.
I get the feeling Ash is scum, and the likeliest partners for Ash are probably Snow or MiX...? (And the reason you were still on my list despite me thinking Ash was scum was I took Faust’s rebuke of Ash votes in a way that made me look at the game as if he is town, and if he is town I would put you a lot higher.)
I don’t know. He is scummier than some people for sure, but townier than others.
Do you think he is scum?
Yeah, that was an ugly hammer.
Yeah, that was an ugly hammer.
I actually forgot that his role meant he would die at L-1. I'm not sure how, given that I remembered that we should lynch him for role-related reasons. He even seemed like the safer person to vote because Ash was already voting for him, so wouldn't be able to swoop in with a sudden hammer.
I’m out for awhile. I say no voting until we hash this out fully and decide how we want to end the game.
If anyone sees a more optimistic option, please post it.
I’ve written and deleted multiple replies at this point but can’t get to a point where I feel like it’s an acceptable draft per the civility pledge. Basically I don’t think it’s possible for me to respond to MiX at all, and probably just can’t respond. I’m seriously considering blocking them so I don’t see any posts.
Possible commuter shot, one deathproof, SK BP. Those are the possible powers left that can matter. Considering that’s two roles that town can have and half of living players are scum, I have to imagine at least one is not helping us.
So MiX, you think we should kill the SK today?
So MiX, you think we should kill the SK today?
No, we should kill Maquis, which is precisely why I'm voting for ash. I also believe we should vote for Garak, because if they were town they would've claimed by now, and I think ash's Garak.
As for reasons for Garak to claim, if they bus drived then they would know who scum targetted that was bus drived into EFHW (if they didn't bus drive EFHW then they're scum) and, thus, we would have a "cop" result on them, because I believe SK killed faust (if SK isn't Garak), thus said person couldn't be Maquis. If SK's Garak, then we should lynch them anyway, because there's no way to distinguish them from Maquis and we can still win after a SK lynch.
I hope I answered everything, I have a feeling I'm being confusing...
Didds could be lying as town. That's all, really. No lynch while losing one bulletproof is the worst, but it's also necessary if Dax is SK. Still don't think a CC should happen.
Agreed that SK almost always wins here if he's commuter or deathproof...sigh...
Ash: are you, or are you not, Garak? Please answer this, even with an "I'm not answering" post. I'm also asking this to raerae.
I'm here, and I'm sure I have lots of relevant thoughts, but I'm struggling so badly with awakeness today. I've got a lot of house stuff I need to get done while there's daylight on my side.
ETA for thinking maybe 5.30pm forum time? I've got a friend arriving for dinner and Disco in about half an hour, and they usually stay till about 10 local time.
Hold the phone. You just asked if I was Garak. But now you KNOW Ash is? I don't think either Ash or I should claim.
Didds could be lying as town. That's all, really. No lynch while losing one bulletproof is the worst, but it's also necessary if Dax is SK. Still don't think a CC should happen.
Agreed that SK almost always wins here if he's commuter or deathproof...sigh...
Ash: are you, or are you not, Garak? Please answer this, even with an "I'm not answering" post. I'm also asking this to raerae.
Lying as town? Can you explain that too, please?
@MiX, Didds, Snow: Thoughts on a No Lynch?
I'm here, and I'm sure I have lots of relevant thoughts, but I'm struggling so badly with awakeness today. I've got a lot of house stuff I need to get done while there's daylight on my side.
ETA for thinking maybe 5.30pm forum time? I've got a friend arriving for dinner and Disco in about half an hour, and they usually stay till about 10 local time.
Why'd you ask me to claim if I was Garak? Then give me zero time to do so before accusing Ash of it?
Why'd you ask me to claim if I was Garak? Then give me zero time to do so before accusing Ash of it?
I've been accusing Ash of being Garak for quite some time now. To make this post more than a simple answer, why do you think Garak shouldn't claim?
Why'd you ask me to claim if I was Garak? Then give me zero time to do so before accusing Ash of it?
I've been accusing Ash of being Garak for quite some time now. To make this post more than a simple answer, why do you think Garak shouldn't claim?
Don't avoid the question. Why'd you want me to claim?
Why'd you ask me to claim if I was Garak? Then give me zero time to do so before accusing Ash of it?
I've been accusing Ash of being Garak for quite some time now. To make this post more than a simple answer, why do you think Garak shouldn't claim?
Don't avoid the question. Why'd you want me to claim?
Here's how I see it, you, Space, me, and Ash haven't claimed yet. If you get Ash and I to claim, even if it's just "Not Garak," you've narrowed the pool for the remaining roles. That's scummy as hell, why are you trying to expose more town roles?
Why'd you ask me to claim if I was Garak? Then give me zero time to do so before accusing Ash of it?
I've been accusing Ash of being Garak for quite some time now. To make this post more than a simple answer, why do you think Garak shouldn't claim?
Don't avoid the question. Why'd you want me to claim?
Here's how I see it, you, Space, me, and Ash haven't claimed yet. If you get Ash and I to claim, even if it's just "Not Garak," you've narrowed the pool for the remaining roles. That's scummy as hell, why are you trying to expose more town roles?
On top of that, Garak didn't claim yesterday so it's HIGHLY unlikely they're going to claim today. And the cherry is that it doesn't matter anymore. We need to identify Maquis and a role isn't a guaranteed way to do that.
Why'd you ask me to claim if I was Garak? Then give me zero time to do so before accusing Ash of it?
I've been accusing Ash of being Garak for quite some time now. To make this post more than a simple answer, why do you think Garak shouldn't claim?
Don't avoid the question. Why'd you want me to claim?
Here's how I see it, you, Space, me, and Ash haven't claimed yet. If you get Ash and I to claim, even if it's just "Not Garak," you've narrowed the pool for the remaining roles. That's scummy as hell, why are you trying to expose more town roles?
On top of that, Garak didn't claim yesterday so it's HIGHLY unlikely they're going to claim today. And the cherry is that it doesn't matter anymore. We need to identify Maquis and a role isn't a guaranteed way to do that.
Because Garak has information. Obviously, that information's not useful enough for town to claim, which makes me believe Garak's scum that didn't bus drive and doesn't want to give an innocent result. Unless you believe town!Garak would ever, EVER not bus drive EFHW there? I don't...
So, essencially, I want a Garak claim so we can lynch them. I was toying around with the idea that town!Garak has information for town but at this point I doubt there's a town!Garak. Feel free to convince me otherwise.
Yesterday there was no chance that Garak was even remotely scummy nor did he have a reason to use his ability. Today we have both (EFHW died and Garak should've protected her). I believe that completely changes the circumstances around his claim.
Because Garak has information. Obviously, that information's not useful enough for town to claim, which makes me believe Garak's scum that didn't bus drive and doesn't want to give an innocent result. Unless you believe town!Garak would ever, EVER not bus drive EFHW there? I don't...
So, essencially, I want a Garak claim so we can lynch them. I was toying around with the idea that town!Garak has information for town but at this point I doubt there's a town!Garak. Feel free to convince me otherwise.
Yesterday there was no chance that Garak was even remotely scummy nor did he have a reason to use his ability. Today we have both (EFHW died and Garak should've protected her). I believe that completely changes the circumstances around his claim.
That's ridiculous, you think scum is going to claim so you can lynch them? I mean, if that were the case Town would have won already. Let's talk no lynch again, why do you think it put town behind?
Hey, I'm alive, I'm honestly not up to posting much or reading anything today. I didn't submit a night action last night. Not that it matters.
I'll review the end of the day (did it end early or did I lose track of time) tonight or tomorrow or something and comment on that. Just, whatever, I'm here, I'm not dead.
MiX: why can't you scumread Space for it?
I don't think it's worth considering Dax's deathproof in this, because Dax is just as likely to be maquis as anyone else and then we're in the same boat with a no lynch again, etc.
MiX wanting to autolynch Garak is scummy as hell.
Garak could have used his power earlier, trying to snipe redirect an NK like I talked about earlier in the game. That's not something only scum would have done. It's certainly not a scumclaim as you're implying.
If Dax is scum then she doesn't force a no kill, although scum could always choose not to kill.
I do agree PR luck could help us here, but don't think we should be lynching assuming how it plays out.
Lynching Dax is catastrophic.
My biggest problem with MiX here is that I thought he got this stuff earlier but is now pushing for the unthinking Garak lynch.
His thoughts on Garak have been all over the place all game, but largely focussed around lynching without having to build a case on whomever the player was. That's another reason I was screwing around with acting Garak like Yesterday.
MiX: let's assume Ash claims (WLOG) Yates. What is your read on Ash in that case?
But what would your read on Ash be, in that case?
And stop identifying not wanting to turbolynch Garak based on how you think they used their role with a Garak lynch being unthinkable. Don't strawman me, bro.
—put me in the “SA doesn’t ever forget” camp. The quicklynch was a deliberate move, and I think it comes from scum more than town. If SA is town and actually forgot, they know it’s so far out of character that it may cost them the rest of this game and result in some post-game commiseration. Town does it too, but usually has a username that begins with A.
—MiX is mafia, not SK, if scum. He slipped and said “teams” within his last dozen or so posts, which is a scumslip for most at this point. The fact that he hasn’t been lynched yet is also highly suspect.
—NK analysis (mostly why faust) is mildly interesting, and I’d like to read some.
—my goal today is to build up my “won’t lynch” list and POE the best option. Currently, raerae and WCD are on it.
I suspect some of these combinations are more winnable for town than others. For instance, having the deathproof, double-voter and commuter on our side really helps, especially if the loved scum could soak up the NK. I suspect we maximise our chances of winning if we give up on the ones that are the least winnable, and concentrate our efforts on winning in the scenarios where there's still a stronger chance.
—put me in the “SA doesn’t ever forget” camp. The quicklynch was a deliberate move, and I think it comes from scum more than town. If SA is town and actually forgot, they know it’s so far out of character that it may cost them the rest of this game and result in some post-game commiseration. Town does it too, but usually has a username that begins with A.
—UoS/SA, can either of you confirm for me that it is MYLO?
@Joth, could the thread header be changed to say "Day 5" please? Thanks!
The idea that scum get NKd during the night if we no lynch is ridiculous: SK can simply not kill anyone (or hit Didds) while Maquis kills town. How does this help anyone?
I had the same though that Space had, that of lynching SK actually being the right play. But as I then realized, chances of losing are also high due to 3v2 going into night. If the commuter successfully commutes to dodge the kill, we are where we want to be tomorrow. Deathproof was another stopper there, but WCD claiming sort of takes that out of play.
If WCD is deathproof, BP SK, basically game over, congrats.
Re:Rae and NL...that was my second thought, and I haven’t been convinced that it’s wrong. There are some bad outcomes, of course — like only town deaths — but the idea that we have some better forced decisions tomorrow (i.e., less living scum, possibly scum wanting to out other scum) is tempting.
1v1v1 is a town loss, so I don’t particularly care who wins. If you are pointing out that the mod has decided that’s an automatic SK win given the kingmaker problem, I was unaware of that, and again, I don’t really care.
The only scum death tonight will be a mafia death, as the SK is BP. But why does one need to specify which scum kill we are talking about? Scum can and will kill every night unless it’s is 2v1v1 and there is some possibility that two scum kill each other. Even then, unless the BP has been used up and it isn’t WCD, SK is safe anyway. So again, I still fail to understand your point.
Space, if we lunch today, who are you're top two candidates?
Space, if we lunch today, who are you're top two candidates?
I want to work out who I think is most likely to be the SK, and then push for that. I haven't worked out who it is yet.
I think the two Maquis players should claim, so I can remove them from my lynchpool for today :-)
By the way, SK has full(!) bulletproof, so MQ targetting him isn't very useful (gives them information I guess?).
By the way, SK has full(!) bulletproof, so MQ targetting him isn't very useful (gives them information I guess?).
So, the only way to off the SK is to lynch him?
Space, if we lunch today, who are you're top two candidates?
I want to work out who I think is most likely to be the SK, and then push for that. I haven't worked out who it is yet.
I think the two Maquis players should claim, so I can remove them from my lynchpool for today :-)
I think I'm convinced that NL is more or less unwinnable for town, but quite good for Maquis.
I mean, I think we can all agree that scum lynch>no lynch>mislynch.This is equally true literally every day, it's still not an argument for No Lynch being preferable.
The point of my theorizing is we can fully control only one of those things.
I don't fully understand why he didn't target anyone last night for a chance to be able to confirm to himself, WCD and Ash that this is the case.
Posting what appears to be clearly incorrect information as cold, hard facts (as I believe he’s been doing all game) is at best unhelpful and at worst misleading to the point of detrimental action being taken. If the latter is on purpose, it is coming from scum.
Here is where raerae should mention he’s been all but impossible to lynch this game, which continues to be a scum tell.
"Admiral Ross, we need you to send us some reinforcements. I'm down to one enlistedman as my entire senior staff," Dax says, talking to the Admiral over subspace. "Miles is used to doing 10 jobs, but this is beyond even his abilities. I'm considering drafting some civilians to cover other duties."
I think I'm convinced that NL is more or less unwinnable for town, but quite good for Maquis.
I agree with this, which is also my argument against lynching Dax regardless of alignment.
Posting what appears to be clearly incorrect information as cold, hard facts (as I believe he’s been doing all game) is at best unhelpful and at worst misleading to the point of detrimental action being taken. If the latter is on purpose, it is coming from scum.
Here is where raerae should mention he’s been all but impossible to lynch this game, which continues to be a scum tell.
This.
"Admiral Ross, we need you to send us some reinforcements. I'm down to one enlistedman as my entire senior staff," Dax says, talking to the Admiral over subspace. "Miles is used to doing 10 jobs, but this is beyond even his abilities. I'm considering drafting some civilians to cover other duties."
No recruitments, O'Brien needs to be field promoted to Captain!
Posting what appears to be clearly incorrect information as cold, hard facts (as I believe he’s been doing all game) is at best unhelpful and at worst misleading to the point of detrimental action being taken. If the latter is on purpose, it is coming from scum.
Here is where raerae should mention he’s been all but impossible to lynch this game, which continues to be a scum tell.
This.
Wrong. And I was hard to lynch because all Maquis were on me (check the end of D2). But you're both scum, so meh, I'm not going to convince you, am I?
I think I'm convinced that NL is more or less unwinnable for town, but quite good for Maquis.
I agree with this, which is also my argument against lynching Dax regardless of alignment.
I don't believe town immediatly loses with a no lynch: the only problem seems to be that we enter next day in a strictly worse position, however, if we think Didds is scum, breaking the deathproof is enough of an upside that makes it worth it. Note how SK can't NK if we no lynch, which means the kills don't advance as much as Maquis would love.
Also taking the opportunity to say I made a list with all the possible starts for D6 (which is to say, all lynches and NKs), what's left is some PR analysis, still debating if I should put it in or not.Posting what appears to be clearly incorrect information as cold, hard facts (as I believe he’s been doing all game) is at best unhelpful and at worst misleading to the point of detrimental action being taken. If the latter is on purpose, it is coming from scum.
Here is where raerae should mention he’s been all but impossible to lynch this game, which continues to be a scum tell.
This.
Wrong. And I was hard to lynch because all Maquis were on me (check the end of D2). But you're both scum, so meh, I'm not going to convince you, am I?"Admiral Ross, we need you to send us some reinforcements. I'm down to one enlistedman as my entire senior staff," Dax says, talking to the Admiral over subspace. "Miles is used to doing 10 jobs, but this is beyond even his abilities. I'm considering drafting some civilians to cover other duties."
No recruitments, O'Brien needs to be field promoted to Captain!
I wish I could comment on flavor :(
- If we mislynch, SK aims for MQ (although he can miss) and MQ either do nothing or try to hope SK hits town. Overall, we'll probably reach 2v1v1, but if MQ NKs town loses, so it's a bit risky.
- If we lynch MQ, SK always has an incentive to NK town, thus MQ doesn't really want to NK here, So we'll almost always go to 2v1v1, which is what I fully expect will indeed happen.
- Note how we'll reach the same scenario with a MQ lynch and a Mislynch. This is actually something I've been underplaying, but it's truer than I thought. Obviously, MQ lynch is better overall (because SK can miss NKing MQ but if they miss NKing town we basically win) but this isn't really MyLo, to answer ash's earlier question.
- If we lynch SK, we need PRs to save us. I didn't put the "MQ kills nothing" event because they would never choose it, but it's possible. With the Didds claim, I don't think this will ever be the correct move, however we don't need to go all out and say no killing SK today, because even with the Dax claim, there's only 1/2 chance of MQ killing non-commuter if they're not commuter themselves, which aren't bad odds...if you don't consider that the chances commuter's town, which is 50%, so overall we have 25% chances of winning here. Just having done this math, it seems...bad, actually. I might remove Space from the lynch table for this reason. (Disclaimer: the probabilities above aren't accurate with everything we know about this game, I just don't think it matters much)
- If we no lynch, MQ always want to NK whereas SK only wants to NK MQ. So, we'll probably enter 2v2v1, or one of (1v2v1/2v1v1) if SK is feeling risky. This seems worse than the 2v1v1 scenario of lynching MQ.
- PRs only make scum have to pick "nothing" for their kill, which is bad if we would rather have, say, a kill. Obviously they're almost always good.
With the above scenarios and conclusions, I...er...conclude that NL is strictly worse than MQ lynch. All the neutral scenarios are some that highly depend on PRs and the mindgames scum want to play, which for obviously reasons won't say here, but they're situations that shouldn't benefit any party (and allow for town to win).
That is my reasoning behind lynching today. Any questions?
Is that a scumslip? Should I assume that's a scumslip? How is 1 more Maquis being alive not strictly worse for town? XvYvZ is X town, Y Maquis and Z SK, so no lynch essencially helps MQ while doing nothing for town. If you think it's better for town, say so, I think it's worse.
Is that a scumslip? Should I assume that's a scumslip? How is 1 more Maquis being alive not strictly worse for town? XvYvZ is X town, Y Maquis and Z SK, so no lynch essencially helps MQ while doing nothing for town. If you think it's better for town, say so, I think it's worse.
What is "that"? Point out my scumslip if you really want to go down this road. I'm not going to allow anymore generic mud slinging. If you've got a bone to pick with somebody, do it.
Is that a scumslip? Should I assume that's a scumslip? How is 1 more Maquis being alive not strictly worse for town? XvYvZ is X town, Y Maquis and Z SK, so no lynch essencially helps MQ while doing nothing for town. If you think it's better for town, say so, I think it's worse.
What is "that"? Point out my scumslip if you really want to go down this road. I'm not going to allow anymore generic mud slinging. If you've got a bone to pick with somebody, do it.
I should really be more direct. Why do you think a 2v2v1 situation isn't strictly worse than a 2v1v1 situation?
Is that a scumslip? Should I assume that's a scumslip? How is 1 more Maquis being alive not strictly worse for town? XvYvZ is X town, Y Maquis and Z SK, so no lynch essencially helps MQ while doing nothing for town. If you think it's better for town, say so, I think it's worse.
What is "that"? Point out my scumslip if you really want to go down this road. I'm not going to allow anymore generic mud slinging. If you've got a bone to pick with somebody, do it.
I should really be more direct. Why do you think a 2v2v1 situation isn't strictly worse than a 2v1v1 situation?
Because I was thinking your middle number was your town number.
But I have another question, you said you want to kill the SK today but your math indicates that'll lead to a MQ win. Was that a scumslip?
I'm going to vote No Lynch unless somebody talks me out of it. It guarantees 4 alive tomorrow, lynching today guarantees 3 alive tomorrow. Somebody tell me why I'm wrong. Not MiX, sorry, you've tried twice, I'm just not picking up what you're putting down.
I'm not going to vote for raerae today. Or Space, either, probably.
The long post from MiX was actually helpful. It demonstrates that no lynching is not advantageous to us. The big takeaway is that we need to lynch Maquis? Cool. although, I kind of feel like we (or at least some of us) have been trying to do that and failing over and over again.
I'm not going to vote for raerae today. Or Space, either, probably. Snow is at the top of my current list, unless someone has a reason that the probabilities are wrong and all of MiX's posts have been misleading today. MiX feels more SK than Maquis to me, but that is entirely subjective and based on my sense that he doesn't seem like he has partners that he thinks about when posting or that he has engaged in any kind of QT discussion.
I'm not going to vote for raerae today. Or Space, either, probably.
It's good that you're probably not voting for me if you're aiming to strike Maquis: remember I'm EFHW-confirmed non-Maquis!
You know, you're a sucker for long posts aren't you? I mean this in a cute way: last time I made a wall post (my D1 VCA) you townread me, now you're doing it again, I find it...charming, really. Everyone else: is this common? I don't remember this from briefly rereading Didds, but I was mostly focused around her voting pattern.
Are you definitely not voting for raerae, or just probably? I would love to refine my read on raerae with people I believe are town, which in this case is only you.
Should we all put down prelim guesses? Can’t hurt.
SA for SK
MiX for Mafia
raerae for town
That leaves one out of WCD and UoS? Before the claim, I was leaning WCD. Now? Dunno.
Should we all put down prelim guesses? Can’t hurt.
SA for SK
MiX for Mafia
raerae for town
That leaves one out of WCD and UoS? Before the claim, I was leaning WCD. Now? Dunno.
It’s the middle of the night in Europe. We’ll be waiting for awhile on MiX.
Should we all put down prelim guesses? Can’t hurt.
SA for SK
MiX for Mafia
raerae for town
That leaves one out of WCD and UoS? Before the claim, I was leaning WCD. Now? Dunno.
Love it! MiX, you're up next, then Didds, UoS, and Space. I hardly think my reads are a secret but I'll round it out at the end.
Also, I am not town reading you for it. I think you're the SK.
Should we all put down prelim guesses? Can’t hurt.
SA for SK
MiX for Mafia
raerae for town
That leaves one out of WCD and UoS? Before the claim, I was leaning WCD. Now? Dunno.
Since the crickets are the only ones around right now...What about her claim leans town to you?
So, Snow does his reads next?
Also, I am not town reading you for it. I think you're the SK.
Awwww. Also, to reply to your above post, I suppose you like effort, but then I realized the 2 posts are all peak helpfullness for me, so I guess my theory of "Didds likes long posts with effort" is wrong.
If Didds is SK we need to lynch her right now or we lose, which essencially puts us in the No Lynch scenario, and if she's not SK then we basically lose.
If Dax is SK and is targetted with a NK, does he lose deathrproof, or does bulletproof protect it?
If Dax is SK and is targetted with a NK, does he lose deathrproof, or does bulletproof protect it?
I could have asked the mod myself, but what I was actually asking for was a feel for who'd been even considering the question, not the outright answer right away in-thread...
I like your scum!raerae points
ash!raerae seems to make more sense than snow!raerae.
I am 100% not the SK or Maquis, so all of this work is for naught...and the effort put into it makes both Space and MiX seem like they are engaging in smoke-and-mirrors work, but I will try to give them the benefit of the doubt.
MiX: let's assume Ash claims (WLOG) Yates. What is your read on Ash in that case?While UoS isn't outright asking MiX whether he's Yates, it's clear that if MiX himself is Yates, then his response will be less considered than if it's a role he'd actually think that Ash might have. That seemed like subtle role-fishing on UoS's part, and more likely to come from Maquis, who have more chance of strategising for the endgame than the SK would.
I like your scum!raerae points, and are some I've been trying to deal with myself, now knowing that every scum was on my wagon makes her continuous push on me less towny. I also didn't like how ash and raerae both said the same things regarding no lynch...this is also why I'm voting for ash and not snow right now, ash!raerae seems to make more sense than snow!raerae. Everything just makes ash scum to be honest.
If Didds is SK we need to lynch her right now or we lose, which essencially puts us in the No Lynch scenario, and if she's not SK then we basically lose.
If Dax is SK and is targetted with a NK, does he lose deathrproof, or does bulletproof protect it?
Remind me again, we're lynching the SK today?
Remind me again, we're lynching the SK today?
Remind me again, we're lynching the SK today?
I think the best scenario for town is up lynch Maquis yoday. That was the result of the Mix monster post
Remind me again, we're lynching the SK today?
I think the best scenario for town is up lynch Maquis yoday. That was the result of the Mix monster post
But don't you think the SK tries to kill town then tonight instead of MQ? I don't see a situation where the SK deliberately makes themselves the only scum available to lynch.
@Ash, what do you think about claiming? With Didds out in the open we really don't have that much left to hide, right?
I like your scum!raerae points
Cool. I'm quoting this because "descriptor!name" is the typical way of using the "!" notation you see around here, at least going back as far as two or three years ago when I started reading.ash!raerae seems to make more sense than snow!raerae.
And I'm quoting these because as far as I can remember, the only person who does "name!name" notation is Swan, and for some of the rest of us it grates exactly like a grammar mistake :-P
I think no one should claim from here on out, ever.
We are going to lynch someone, and trying NOT to lynch certain scum is just a weird concept that we can’t really follow. I mean, if someone claims SK at L-1, do we stop? And then if someone counterclaims?
I am 100% not the SK or Maquis, so all of this work is for naught...and the effort put into it makes both Space and MiX seem like they are engaging in smoke-and-mirrors work, but I will try to give them the benefit of the doubt.
I suspect you're witnessing people who are not very good at reads trying to logic their way out of a situation when it's looking bad for their team. At least, it's true for me!
As for other things you said, there is a disadvantage to outing any more PRs, and that is that there may be a particular one that's not currently in Maquis hands and that they'd very much like to ensure a win... the more info we give them to narrow it down, the better it is for them. So I think all unclaimed PRs shouldn't claim, and should be careful not to softclaim.
As for other things you said, there is a disadvantage to outing any more PRs, and that is that there may be a particular one that's not currently in Maquis hands and that they'd very much like to ensure a win... the more info we give them to narrow it down, the better it is for them. So I think all unclaimed PRs shouldn't claim, and should be careful not to softclaim.
So, here is a question...this coupled with Space's earlier comment about raerae not thinking more town alive is better for us. In the last handful of messages raerae has asked Ash if we should claim, and also said we need to lynch the SK instead of Maquis. What do you all think is going on here? Is that scummy, or not keeping up, or just not agreeing with the conclusions that are being reached about the best way for town to win. One seems forgetful or a misunderstanding, but the trio... I don't know.
Is this worse that Snow's absence and low level of engagement?
I don't think it's as clear as MiX's post suggests that killing the SK is worse than killing Maquis: he asserts that 2 town, 1 Maquis and 1 SK is "neutral", whereas I have trouble seeing that as a town win, and Ash has picked up on that too.
To illustrate why 2T, 1M, 1SK is a likely loss, consider what happens even if one of the scums is a correct D7 lynch: N7 starts with 2T and one scum: the expectation is to have 1T and 1 scum alive the next day barring having a still-active PR to save the day. Even if you (Didds) are town, all scums already know that you've announced you're not a good person to target, so in that set of circumstances, you're likely to be the last town standing, and you're also guaranteed not to be the double-voter, so it's a town loss. The only thing that could save us is a commuting townie meaning that the remaining scum can't kill N7, meaning there would be two townies standing at the start of D8, then it would be a standard 3-person lylo. So, that's a very slim chance of a win, and that's in the best-case scenario where we have a correct D7 lynch anyway!
The more I think through this stuff, the more I think it's going to boil down to PRs saving us even with optimal play by town and errors by scum. If we go into D7 with 1 or 0 townies alive, I think there's no way for town to win, even if our 1-shot-deathproof person is town.
(3T, 2M, 1SK) -> Status quo (Happens only after no-lynch, with scum failing to kill, so not likely, and almost certainly worse than now).
(3T, 1M, 1SK) -> Possible win if we lynch scum D7.
(3T, 0M, 1SK) -> Possible win.
(2T, 2M, 1SK) -> Probable loss, depends on PR distribution.
(2T, 1M, 1SK) -> Probable loss, depends on PR distribution.
(2T, 0M, 1SK) -> Standard 3-person lylo, possible win.
(3T, 2M, 0SK) -> Standard 5-person lylo, possible win.
(2T, 2M, 0SK) -> Probable loss.
Does anyone think these evaluations are incorrect?
Rushing everyone at this juncture is scummy, but the “Incredibly easy to win lylo” statement seals it for me. Cannot be town.
vote: mix
(Re: UoS, I’m willing to give him the IRL pass, given previous experiences. A prod and maybe replacement is worth considering?)
This is all operating on "1v1v1 is SK win", if MQ thinks they can win here then town already lost. This is the most important question ever.
I think no one should claim from here on out, ever.
We are going to lynch someone, and trying NOT to lynch certain scum is just a weird concept that we can’t really follow. I mean, if someone claims SK at L-1, do we stop? And then if someone counterclaims?
Man, you seem new here, so you’ve been getting pass after pass, but you need to tone it down. If you new the history of the forum going back to the lowest numbered games, you’d have an inkling of what I’m talking about regarding UoS and real life.
On f.ds, we believe real life trumps fake online games, every time. We respect each player’s needs outside of the forum, especially when it comes to personal issues that may or may not be shared.
You can continue to assume whatever you want regarding the players here, but as long as you continue to spout off as you seem won’t to do, I will not consider anything you say to be truthful or trustworthy. Your statement in response to SA that 3v0v1 is a win is simple proof of that. SA was correct in her post that it is possible; you are wrong that it is certain.
Yes, we are all fake online avatars on a blue-hued discussion board originally built to discuss Dominion. But we are also all human beings with human lives behind them, and the best thing about f.ds is that that sentiment is paramount. We’ve lost great players to situations where that was forgotten or ignored. I feel like it’s going to happen again.
This is all operating on "1v1v1 is SK win", if MQ thinks they can win here then town already lost. This is the most important question ever.
On the contrary, I think it's an irrelevant question, because whoever wins in that scenario, it's not going to be town, and a town win is all I care about. Just to be clear, it is not helpful here for you to be posting anything about how Maquis or SK should play unless it's strictly better for town's wincon in all possible scenarios as well. I can understand that from a completionist point of view it's nice to lay everything out on the table, but I will scumread you hard for doing any more of that.
As for why I keep directing questions at Ash, Space, it's interesting you're just now pointing out how that's scummy. I've had a town read on him since pretty early on, haven't been shy about sharing that, and now you're using that as a reason I'm scummy.
As for why I keep directing questions at Ash, Space, it's interesting you're just now pointing out how that's scummy. I've had a town read on him since pretty early on, haven't been shy about sharing that, and now you're using that as a reason I'm scummy.
Can you quote yourself saying you were townreading ash? I skimmed you and didn't find anything.
As for why I keep directing questions at Ash, Space, it's interesting you're just now pointing out how that's scummy. I've had a town read on him since pretty early on, haven't been shy about sharing that, and now you're using that as a reason I'm scummy.
Can you quote yourself saying you were townreading ash? I skimmed you and didn't find anything.
Then read harder, I've been saying it since D1 or D2. I said it today at the beginning of the day if memory serves. We aren't going to do this "It doesn't exist" nonsense again.
I also realized something bad for us...we're in a worse situation than I thought. I don't want to disclose anything, but...I'll need to think.
Or, instead of playing games, I can just...
Vote: MiX.
My thought is that he's Garak which is why he's so comfortable throwing that around at everybody else.
Shraeye's early death made it easy for them because he could just bus drive his partner all the way to the moon and back. I think it worked too because it took Space off the Maquis list. They've been low-key defending MiX, almost but not quite town reading him all game, and now deferring to the all powerful, may he rest in peace, King of the Thread Faust's town read on MiX as gospel.
As for who the SK is, Didds, maybe? Ash, maybe (because wouldn't that just serve me right)? I don't know but they get my vote for MVP.
Or, instead of playing games, I can just...
Vote: MiX.
My thought is that he's Garak which is why he's so comfortable throwing that around at everybody else.
Shraeye's early death made it easy for them because he could just bus drive his partner all the way to the moon and back. I think it worked too because it took Space off the Maquis list. They've been low-key defending MiX, almost but not quite town reading him all game, and now deferring to the all powerful, may he rest in peace, King of the Thread Faust's town read on MiX as gospel.
As for who the SK is, Didds, maybe? Ash, maybe (because wouldn't that just serve me right)? I don't know but they get my vote for MVP.
I have already claimed I'm not Garak yesterday I believe, maybe just today. Also what are you even talking about with "They've been low-key defending MiX, almost but not quote town reading him all game"? Ooooooooooh you think it's ash and me? Then vote for ash! I'm more than happy to bus.
Or, instead of playing games, I can just...
Vote: MiX.
My thought is that he's Garak which is why he's so comfortable throwing that around at everybody else.
Shraeye's early death made it easy for them because he could just bus drive his partner all the way to the moon and back. I think it worked too because it took Space off the Maquis list. They've been low-key defending MiX, almost but not quite town reading him all game, and now deferring to the all powerful, may he rest in peace, King of the Thread Faust's town read on MiX as gospel.
As for who the SK is, Didds, maybe? Ash, maybe (because wouldn't that just serve me right)? I don't know but they get my vote for MVP.
I have already claimed I'm not Garak yesterday I believe, maybe just today. Also what are you even talking about with "They've been low-key defending MiX, almost but not quote town reading him all game"? Ooooooooooh you think it's ash and me? Then vote for ash! I'm more than happy to bus.
For once I was not being an ass and using Space's preferred pronouns, I think I've been using she/her all game. So that might as well have read "Space has been...".
And that's l-1? Or l-2? Does it take three or four to lunch today?
Oh for the love of all things good and holy, I didn't think it was 1-shot. Literally been brewing that theory since last night. F. Bomb.
Unvote
Well, luckily now we know ash's scum and, thus, raerae's town. This means that, if Didds's town, there's two scum in (Snow/Space/MiX), which is pretty cool if you think about it. This play might've cracked the game.
Well, luckily now we know ash's scum and, thus, raerae's town. This means that, if Didds's town, there's two scum in (Snow/Space/MiX), which is pretty cool if you think about it. This play might've cracked the game.
How does me being a moron make Ash scum?
Well, luckily now we know ash's scum and, thus, raerae's town. This means that, if Didds's town, there's two scum in (Snow/Space/MiX), which is pretty cool if you think about it. This play might've cracked the game.
How does me being a moron make Ash scum?
Confirmed Garak, EFHW died, therefore Garak is scum. It's not guaranteed as the rest of what I said, but I believe it strenghts my case on him. I wrote a bunch of things about him before, now I'm tunnelling more than anything.
But you're right. If what I learned was that ash!raerae isn't possible, then I should be voting for
Vote: Snow
Well, luckily now we know ash's scum and, thus, raerae's town. This means that, if Didds's town, there's two scum in (Snow/Space/MiX), which is pretty cool if you think about it. This play might've cracked the game.
How does me being a moron make Ash scum?
Confirmed Garak, EFHW died, therefore Garak is scum. It's not guaranteed as the rest of what I said, but I believe it strenghts my case on him. I wrote a bunch of things about him before, now I'm tunnelling more than anything.
But you're right. If what I learned was that ash!raerae isn't possible, then I should be voting for
Vote: Snow
I'm going to try one more time. Remember, I've said that I'm both a moron and the dumb kid, I'm not sure how much more I explain how I don't understand what is happening but you're really, really going to have to slow down and use little words. EFHW dies so, yes, Garak is scum, I get that. But WHY is Ash Garak? I know you have a case but this is me saying it didn't register with me so if you want me on your side you've got to bring it down to a more manageable level.
Why is Ash Garak? And, if you're so incredibly confident of that, why are you voting for Snow?
Okay, at least I figured out why I don't buy your case. I don't believe negative claims. Anybody can say they aren't somebody but that doesn't make it true and it's impossible to disprove. It's strange to me that you trust those claims. Ash stated he was against claiming and it's my assumption that he didn't claim "Not Garak" because that is a form of claiming. So, from my perspective, we're in the same boat as we were when nobody had claimed, or not claimed, anything.
Okay, at least I figured out why I don't buy your case. I don't believe negative claims. Anybody can say they aren't somebody but that doesn't make it true and it's impossible to disprove. It's strange to me that you trust those claims. Ash stated he was against claiming and it's my assumption that he didn't claim "Not Garak" because that is a form of claiming. So, from my perspective, we're in the same boat as we were when nobody had claimed, or not claimed, anything.
Do you believe either me or Space are Garak? Oh, right, you've said this already. I suppose that's fair, but from my position I don't see SK!Garak doing what he did, which means Space can't be Garak, and obviously neither can I. This is incredibly sad, because it means only I have the information that proves Snow's scum...
Actually, hold on: you withdrew your Space!MiX theory, right? Then do you believe either me or ash is Garak?
Okay, at least I figured out why I don't buy your case. I don't believe negative claims. Anybody can say they aren't somebody but that doesn't make it true and it's impossible to disprove. It's strange to me that you trust those claims. Ash stated he was against claiming and it's my assumption that he didn't claim "Not Garak" because that is a form of claiming. So, from my perspective, we're in the same boat as we were when nobody had claimed, or not claimed, anything.
Do you believe either me or Space are Garak? Oh, right, you've said this already. I suppose that's fair, but from my position I don't see SK!Garak doing what he did, which means Space can't be Garak, and obviously neither can I. This is incredibly sad, because it means only I have the information that proves Snow's scum...
Actually, hold on: you withdrew your Space!MiX theory, right? Then do you believe either me or ash is Garak?
What, exactly, did Garak do? I'm confused by what I've bolded above.
Okay, at least I figured out why I don't buy your case. I don't believe negative claims. Anybody can say they aren't somebody but that doesn't make it true and it's impossible to disprove. It's strange to me that you trust those claims. Ash stated he was against claiming and it's my assumption that he didn't claim "Not Garak" because that is a form of claiming. So, from my perspective, we're in the same boat as we were when nobody had claimed, or not claimed, anything.
Do you believe either me or Space are Garak? Oh, right, you've said this already. I suppose that's fair, but from my position I don't see SK!Garak doing what he did, which means Space can't be Garak, and obviously neither can I. This is incredibly sad, because it means only I have the information that proves Snow's scum...
Actually, hold on: you withdrew your Space!MiX theory, right? Then do you believe either me or ash is Garak?
What, exactly, did Garak do? I'm confused by what I've bolded above.
Let EFHW live. Sorry, my mind's way ahead of what I'm writting, for me everything I'm thinking is obvious so I omit things that are public knowledge, since my brain goes "that's known, no need to say it".
Why would SK!Garak ever, EVER, use bus drive before N4? At that point they would be worrying about SK cop, and since they know they're not going to get randomly NKd there's no need to use it. There's also no reason to not save EFHW, because that strictly helps MQ. Do you think town!Garak would've lied about not being Garak in D4? I don't believe they would, yet this is exactly what Space did. This leads to my conclusion that Space isn't Garak, because Space is either town or SK and Space being Garak doesn't make sense for either alignment. Thus, given that we know Didds/Snow/raerae aren't Garak, leads me to the conclusion that ash/MiX is Garak, obviously I'm taking the liberty to say that ash's Garak here, but no one else can deduce it...I think. Not that I really care that much.
Thus, from my perspective, ash is Garak, which means Snow is his only possible partner. Remember this only work if and only if Didds is town AND Didds is Dax, everything I'm doing is based on this. You can come to your own conclusions from your own perspective, but the latest information (you're not in a scumteam that has Garak nor you are Garak) wouldn't be new for you, so I would love to hear what others can deduce.
Why would SK!Garak ever, EVER, use bus drive before N4? At that point they would be worrying about SK cop, and since they know they're not going to get randomly NKd there's no need to use it. There's also no reason to not save EFHW, because that strictly helps MQ. Do you think town!Garak would've lied about not being Garak in D4? I don't believe they would, yet this is exactly what Space did. This leads to my conclusion that Space isn't Garak, because Space is either town or SK and Space being Garak doesn't make sense for either alignment. Thus, given that we know Didds/Snow/raerae aren't Garak, leads me to the conclusion that ash/MiX is Garak, obviously I'm taking the liberty to say that ash's Garak here, but no one else can deduce it...I think. Not that I really care that much.
Thus, from my perspective, ash is Garak, which means Snow is his only possible partner. Remember this only work if and only if Didds is town AND Didds is Dax, everything I'm doing is based on this. You can come to your own conclusions from your own perspective, but the latest information (you're not in a scumteam that has Garak nor you are Garak) wouldn't be new for you, so I would love to hear what others can deduce.
The bolded says Town Garak would not have lied, the italics says that's exactly what Space did, then you conclude that Space isn't Garak. Do you understand how hard that is to follow?
Vote: MiX because why break my streak now.
MiX, thank you for slowing down and spelling things out. I’m actually following you now, which is saying something.
I am town and I am Dax, so I’ll follow vote: Snow L-2
UmbrageOfSnow (1): MiX, WestCoastDidds
MiX (1): ashersky, raerae
As for why I keep directing questions at Ash, Space, it's interesting you're just now pointing out how that's scummy. I've had a town read on him since pretty early on, haven't been shy about sharing that, and now you're using that as a reason I'm scummy.
As for why I keep directing questions at Ash, Space, it's interesting you're just now pointing out how that's scummy. I've had a town read on him since pretty early on, haven't been shy about sharing that, and now you're using that as a reason I'm scummy.
I'm using it just now because wanting an opinion from another player you trust in the early game is normal, but townreading a particular player now, when town!you should be worried that three out of the other five players are scum is a whole different thing.
PPE 4
As for why I keep directing questions at Ash, Space, it's interesting you're just now pointing out how that's scummy. I've had a town read on him since pretty early on, haven't been shy about sharing that, and now you're using that as a reason I'm scummy.
I'm using it just now because wanting an opinion from another player you trust in the early game is normal, but townreading a particular player now, when town!you should be worried that three out of the other five players are scum is a whole different thing.
A Snow lynch now seems like nothing more than convenience since he's not around.
As for why I keep directing questions at Ash, Space, it's interesting you're just now pointing out how that's scummy. I've had a town read on him since pretty early on, haven't been shy about sharing that, and now you're using that as a reason I'm scummy.
I'm using it just now because wanting an opinion from another player you trust in the early game is normal, but townreading a particular player now, when town!you should be worried that three out of the other five players are scum is a whole different thing.
Do you not have a single townread? Having even one player that you trust goes a long way, PoE is incredibly strong.A Snow lynch now seems like nothing more than convenience since he's not around.
Eh, seems like a way to dismiss the case on him. Do you agree, disagree or are neutral to it (it being the case)?
Has there been a formal prod request on Snow?
A Snow lynch now seems like nothing more than convenience since he's not around.
The only ways I can see for Ash not to be Garak are:
1) MiX is Garak. Not so likely given all his Garak-hunting, but it's an outside chance.
2) Raerae is Garak. The one-shot misunderstanding would be a genius-level play, but probably also something she'd do a lot better than some of us.
3) WCD is Garak, her Maquis-buddy is actually Jadzia, and her claim a weird diversionary tactic.
4) Snow is Garak, and his Maquis-buddy is the real O'Brian. Given that his claim came out even earlier than WCD's this seems really unlikely.
I can see the logic in voting Snow here from MiX's point of view. The downside is that MiX is more or less assuming that Ash is Maquis!Garak to deduce that he (MiX) wants to vote Snow, all without testing that intermediate hypothesis. I think if we're sold on the Maquis!Garak idea at all, then the best course of action should be to flip Ash himself first, and then go after the other people that implicates second if we were right on the first hypothesis and still alive to tell the tale.
I find some flaws in the thinking regarding optimal Garak play being espoused here.
As for the ridiculous assumption that MiX is making, let me posit this to any player who wants to answer:
If I have every living player on the game post the words “I am not the SK” while you are sleeping, leaving only you as the one who didn’t post those words, does that mean I can safely assume you are the SK and base all my other reads and assumptions on that?
The only ways I can see for Ash not to be Garak are:
1) MiX is Garak. Not so likely given all his Garak-hunting, but it's an outside chance.
2) Raerae is Garak. The one-shot misunderstanding would be a genius-level play, but probably also something she'd do a lot better than some of us.
3) WCD is Garak, her Maquis-buddy is actually Jadzia, and her claim a weird diversionary tactic.
4) Snow is Garak, and his Maquis-buddy is the real O'Brian. Given that his claim came out even earlier than WCD's this seems really unlikely.
I can see the logic in voting Snow here from MiX's point of view. The downside is that MiX is more or less assuming that Ash is Maquis!Garak to deduce that he (MiX) wants to vote Snow, all without testing that intermediate hypothesis. I think if we're sold on the Maquis!Garak idea at all, then the best course of action should be to flip Ash himself first, and then go after the other people that implicates second if we were right on the first hypothesis and still alive to tell the tale.
From my PoV, 1)'s impossible, 2)'s incredibly unlikely, might have to reread raerae's previous posts, 3) links MQ together a lot and 4) links MQ too much for it to be a reasonable play IMO. So for me only 2) and 3) are possible, and I doubt 2) while also having a townread on Didds that discards 3). But they're good points.
As for my Snow case, the brilliance here is that I don't need to assume ash's MQ!Garak, just Garak: thus, if Didds is town, ash/raerae can't be a team (for the same reason raerae isn't Garak), which leads exactly two teams: ash/snow and raerae/snow, both of which implicate Snow.
So: Space, are you Garak?
I am not.
Hug, town Garak would just not answer, you say.
As for your “strengthened case”, you “deduced” something, you say?
I deduce that you are scum. Are we to all agree that I am fully correct?
You can’t just “deduce” something and expect that to be a sensible thing to say. I deduce that you are scum, Raerae is Keanu Reeves, and joth is actually residing on DS9 and has great wifi. Look I deduced stuff! Do you believe me?
I like your style...my case on you being not-Garak resides on this single post:So: Space, are you Garak?
I am not.
Which seems unecessary town lying if Space's, in fact, Garak. Ash didn't do this. I believe town!Garak would simply not answer if he wants to hide instead of lying to a direct question.
Hug, town Garak would just not answer, you say.
As for your “strengthened case”, you “deduced” something, you say?
I deduce that you are scum. Are we to all agree that I am fully correct?
You can’t just “deduce” something and expect that to be a sensible thing to say. I deduce that you are scum, Raerae is Keanu Reeves, and joth is actually residing on DS9 and has great wifi. Look I deduced stuff! Do you believe me?
I like your style...my case on you being not-Garak resides on this single post:So: Space, are you Garak?
I am not.
Which seems unecessary town lying if Space's, in fact, Garak. Ash didn't do this. I believe town!Garak would simply not answer if he wants to hide instead of lying to a direct question.
Also, people had already decided to lunch Garak unless he had a real convincing argument so it isn't that surprising nobody stepped up to that plate, scum or otherwise.
If that person is coming from the speccy and has kept up I'd prefer we keep the original deadline. Obviously deferring to mod/replacement preferences. The thread has gone dormant in the last day or two and that isn't all Space being gone. If we had to vote right now, is everybody ready? If not, put your questions out there, sitting around isn't helping town right now.
If we had to vote right now, is everybody ready? If not, put your questions out there, sitting around isn't helping town right now.
Before anyone gets any ideas, I'm obviously in favour of the replacement, because it's better than not (Snow would probably had to be modkilled). Also, welcome, said person, I'm willing to let you live if you say who you targetted N4. Cmon, don't lie like Snow, you don't even KNOW he lied ;)
Also I agree that if the replacement comes from speccy we don't need a new deadline.If we had to vote right now, is everybody ready? If not, put your questions out there, sitting around isn't helping town right now.
Do you have any questions?
If we are going to vote now, I am probably going to vote for Snow, but that was my feeling before he was unable to be present much, and I don't know how much a new person would change my mind. So, I guess another alternative is to lynch and then if its not Snow let the new person read in.
If that person is coming from the speccy and has kept up I'd prefer we keep the original deadline. Obviously deferring to mod/replacement preferences. The thread has gone dormant in the last day or two and that isn't all Space being gone. If we had to vote right now, is everybody ready? If not, put your questions out there, sitting around isn't helping town right now.
Space, about Monday...isn't deadline Sunday?
Space, about Monday...isn't deadline Sunday?
Yeah, but I'm saying that I'm going to be doing things before my birthday to celebrate, and was intending to have a good friend staying from Friday night till Monday afternoon, meeting up with other friends for food and cake and games. Though tonight he's messaged to say he's feeling very suddenly sick, so now his presence is all up in the air, which is very sad :-(
Third scum is a bit of a mystery because of Didds' claim. On one hand, it hurts town because scum won't target her but the same rings true if she's scum so it's kind of a crappy play either way and if I know anything about crappy play it's that town makes those like they're going out of style.
Third scum is a bit of a mystery because of Didds' claim. On one hand, it hurts town because scum won't target her but the same rings true if she's scum so it's kind of a crappy play either way and if I know anything about crappy play it's that town makes those like they're going out of style.
Crappy play pretty much sums up my game. I have no defense. It makes me sad, but it is what it is. Life and stuff, and multiball is hard, and sometimes I suck at logic. Apologies.
Ash: town
Mix: scum
Space: scum
I'm not willing to vote for Snow until we've had a minute to process the new person. If that isn't happening for awhile, we should wait.
On the difficulty of lynching mafia without an odd consensus, I think difficulty in lynching a player is in fact indicative of a scum alignment.
Of course, that just aligns with my current vote, so you can call it bias, but I have pointed out a few times the odd invincibility that MiX seems to hold. He’s basically the new faust.
I'm not willing to vote for Snow until we've had a minute to process the new person. If that isn't happening for awhile, we should wait.
Then vote for ash! What do you think of him?
I'm not willing to vote for Snow until we've had a minute to process the new person. If that isn't happening for awhile, we should wait.
Then vote for ash! What do you think of him?
I find Ash really hard to read, but I know him to be a valuable player. This is my, I think, third game with him. He’s somewhere in a faraway different time zone (Asia, maybe?) so his posts are always first thing in the morning for me, and a result there is little real time back and forth, but he doesn’t share much beyond game stuff anyway. Without the fluff, it’s hard for me to have an image of him as a person (if he doesn’t have piercing blue eyes, I’m asking for a refund). I was frustrated with him in my last game because the mod (faust) changed the description of my role mid-game (I also misunderstood my role and called it by the wrong name so this was a perfect storm of role mistunderstanding) but he insisted that I was lying and that a mod would never do that. I think I said he owed me a beer my QT was released. Anyway, all of that is to say he is hard for me to read and hard for me to convince, even when I’m speaking truth. I don’t find him unscummy in this game.
I don’t like lobbying campaigns. It feels off to me to be actively courted. So, part of why I am resisting voting for him is that you (MiX) are pushing him.
ADK, I hope you’ve been following because I wouldn’t wish this 109 freaking pages of text (85 of them being MiX) on anyone.
ADK was not in speccy
Morning y'all!
I have been following the game somewhat, I started a detailed reread (at least as detailed as time allows) tomorrow when I volunteered, I'm about 1000 posts in, I plan on continuing that today.
If someone could get me up to speed regarding who has claimed and what, that would be lovely. And if scum wants to make add on any claims about their alignment, that would be lovely.
As for today's order of business, we're in a 3v2v1 situation with Maquis (MQ) and SK where we (at least I) have decided that the odds favour a M
...I guess it had to happen once this game.As for today's order of business, we're in a 3v2v1 situation with Maquis (MQ) and SK where we (at least I) have decided that the odds favour a M
Maquis lynch, which is what we're attempting. For reads, you can read the last 5 pages, I believe those contain our updated readslists and opinions. Anything else, just ask.
Also, me and Didds are scumreading you. Good luck!
And now a trick question: who did you target with your cop N4?
Which is unfortunate but I don't think the worst because MU can't be in the game right? I mean if they are then I'm one town against 5 scum and pretty much hosed.
Which is unfortunate but I don't think the worst because MU can't be in the game right? I mean if they are then I'm one town against 5 scum and pretty much hosed.
Just wanted a reaction out of you, I guess you have access to snow's QT so it wasn't a very good trick question.
Do you want to state any early reads or something? No point in posting yet if you're rereading.
You (and raerae) can't be stubborn for the sake of stubborn forever...
You (and raerae) can't be stubborn for the sake of stubborn forever...
Firetrucking watch me, bro.
Ash: town
Mix: scum
Space: scum
You should specify MQ and SK reads, but I guess when you townread ash you run out of people to scumread, making PoE stronger. I can't really see a universe where you and ash are town...
You (and raerae) can't be stubborn for the sake of stubborn forever...
Firetrucking watch me, bro.
Well, this game will inevitably end, so...I'll watch. Probably from my grave...
Why are you scumreading me and Space? Okay, scratch that, why are you scumreading Space?
Ash: town
Mix: scum
Space: scum
You should specify MQ and SK reads, but I guess when you townread ash you run out of people to scumread, making PoE stronger. I can't really see a universe where you and ash are town...
Can't stress this enough, the bolded above is why I'm being the worst town right now. I can't see past your demands and ain't nobody tell raerae what to do, just ask shraeye, it never works out well. Please, please, please be more aware of the words your using to get people to (hopefully) do what you want. A please goes a long way or even just phrasing your request as a question. But when you TELL me to do something, there's absolutely no way in hell I'm ever going to acquiesce.
You (and raerae) can't be stubborn for the sake of stubborn forever...
Firetrucking watch me, bro.
Well, this game will inevitably end, so...I'll watch. Probably from my grave...
Why are you scumreading me and Space? Okay, scratch that, why are you scumreading Space?
I don't like how one of her reasons for scumreading me is that I have a townread. I don't like that faust's townread on you is now law but I don't remember her supporting any other dead townie's reads that strongly. I know it doesn't make sense but I don't like your (MiX+Space) interactions basically all game long. I could go on but I'm shoveling waffles in my face right now so this is what you get.
I don't think it benefits town to know what I think you are. I think scum benefits quite a bit actually. So I'll just keep that secret for now.
And it's been all game that you've been making those sorts of demands so just take my advice and consider it moving forward.
So do you feel comfortable moving forward with no deadline extension or would you like one? No pressure, I just have to go to work soon and am curious if I need to check in before I get off tonight.
That is a really good readslist, and it's definitely what I expected from a player in snow's position that doesn't scumread me. Unfortunately, I don't think Didds is scum. Her PR also means that we should try to go for her partner today...for reasons I'm not disclosing. Good points about raerae, however, unlike ADK, I think my lynch was very much on the table D2 and maybe D3, so raerae's actions were not without risk. Not a lot about ash, sadly, he's definitely an intriguing player to read, one thing that confused me was...why is ash/didds the only ash team? What about ash/raerae? Overall...ADK seems either town or scumbuddies with ash...not sure, too early. I think I'll stick with my scumread for now, his ash point was...somewhat null...
ADK, if you had to pick between ash and raerae, who would you pick? Also, why is ash/raerae not a plausible team?So do you feel comfortable moving forward with no deadline extension or would you like one? No pressure, I just have to go to work soon and am curious if I need to check in before I get off tonight.
We already got a deadline extention...but still a good question.
I’m on a plane now and for the next few hours so I’m out until tomorrow.
Happy birthday weekend, Space!
Man, so happy to have an ADK in the game. Been awhile man.
Also, DAMA.
MiX+Dodd’s scum team and SA SK do sho by dubs.
Man, so happy to have an ADK in the game. Been awhile man.
Also, DAMA.
MiX+Dodd’s scum team and SA SK do sho by dubs.
I’m worried about my availability today/tomorrow so I’ll put this here, just in case:
Vote: Ashersky
I’m also willing to vote ADK
DAMA is my favorite! Ashers typos are charming, but finding me scummy is definitely the drunk talking
But someone should check my work because that was on the fly.
My townread on Rae is 100% based on her townreading me, tbh. Also, I don’t know if town!rae tunnels MiX at all. My longstanding Rae opinion is that Bankers means I have to always lynch her forever, to be honest.
My Dodd’s scumread is POE mostly, since I decided to town read Rae.
After MiX and SA, anyone if air game but me. Cause I’m tony. Also, no one took my bait on my opinion of how Gael’s should actually use poets. That’s poops.
Not voting MiC seems offbramx for you.
I put adk 4th on my list.
I just want to say, if this is L-1 ash then we should've done this a loooong time ago. That said, if he cannot see any non-me teams, then he cannot be town in my eyes.
That should be 5.4?
I just want to say, if this is L-1 ash then we should've done this a loooong time ago. That said, if he cannot see any non-me teams, then he cannot be town in my eyes.
That should be 5.4?
I'm sorry, how does drunk Ash equate to should have lynched a long time ago? Didds just put him at L-1 and this post makes it seem like he's committed some enormous foul.
Not voting MiC seems offbramx for you.
I put adk 4th on my list.
If it's between you and ADK if prefer ADK. Nobody but you and I seem down with MiX. Didds seems on the fence about it but if she'll move to MiX I'll come back. I'm not voting for you today though.
WCD: I’d like to convince you that MiX is not SK. Of that I am sure, but I’d rather not say why.
I’m reticent to claim, but I will own up to not being Garak this entire time. I’m 100% convinced MiX has to be mafia!Garak, considering his laser focus on ensuring he blames someone else for his actions.
Deadline is at 9 PM forum time? We less than 14 hours, folks.
Vote: ADK
Ashersky, I’m willing to believe you for the time being. Is MiX a better vote than ADK?
I really don’t want to lose, so I need the other two town (and maybe the SK) to help me figure it out and lynch freaking Maquis. I know I haven’t been playing well and have been busy so it feels urgent all of the sudden.
L-2 or L-1? I'll hammer ADK, just want to see where we are.
Ashersky, I’m willing to believe you for the time being. Is MiX a better vote than ADK?
He is using declarative sentences that speak well to my current sense of confusion at an opportune time. In my (albeit limited) experience with Ash, he has never spoken to me directly or asked that I reconsider any particular conclusion. So, I’m interested in what else he has to say.
I haven’t followed him to you, yet, so I wouldn’t say that I trust him completely, but I’m interested enough to move to my bigger scum read for awhile to see what others have to say.
With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch most players. Day 5 will end at 9 pm ET time (13:00 GMT) on Saturday, April 6th
If you (WCD, but really, anyone) believe that EFHW’s death is highly indicative of Garak being mafia, then yes, MiX is a better lynch than ADK, because he has a higher chance of being scum.
With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch most players. Day 5 will end at 9 pm ET time (13:00 GMT) on Saturday, April 6th
Just realised that this deadline makes no sense whatsoever, because the "13:00 GMT" is a total mistranslation! Assuming "ET" is the same as forum time, then the deadline is 01:00 GMT the next day, or 2am UK/Portugal time.
Anyway, I'm off work tomorrow, so should be around at deadline. I still think Ash is scum, and would be willing to lynch him or ADK. The number of people who sound like they're willing to lynch ADK is suspiciously high, though.. I feel like the fact we're not getting consensus on Ash makes it more likely that he's Maquis.
If you (WCD, but really, anyone) believe that EFHW’s death is highly indicative of Garak being mafia, then yes, MiX is a better lynch than ADK, because he has a higher chance of being scum.
Why would I agressively hunt for Garak D4 if I'm Garak? What would I accomplish? What do you think happened for me to do such a thing?
If you (WCD, but really, anyone) believe that EFHW’s death is highly indicative of Garak being mafia, then yes, MiX is a better lynch than ADK, because he has a higher chance of being scum.
Why would I agressively hunt for Garak D4 if I'm Garak? What would I accomplish? What do you think happened for me to do such a thing?
It’s exactly what I would have done at your f.ds mafia age.
Does the day end in 12 hours or so?
Am I going to have to claim to ensure the right lynch goes through?
Who’s voting for me now? SA and MiX?
WCD: I’d like to convince you that MiX is not SK. Of that I am sure, but I’d rather not say why.
I’m reticent to claim, but I will own up to not being Garak this entire time. I’m 100% convinced MiX has to be mafia!Garak, considering his laser focus on ensuring he blames someone else for his actions.
If you (WCD, but really, anyone) believe that EFHW’s death is highly indicative of Garak being mafia, then yes, MiX is a better lynch than ADK, because he has a higher chance of being scum.
Why would I agressively hunt for Garak D4 if I'm Garak? What would I accomplish? What do you think happened for me to do such a thing?
It’s exactly what I would have done at your f.ds mafia age.
This game is my Bankers now.
This game is my Bankers now.
What's Bankers? What is that claim? I...no...he's lying. No Freaking way SK is Yates, absolutely not.
Vote: ash
This game is my Bankers now.
What's Bankers? What is that claim? I...no...he's lying. No Freaking way SK is Yates, absolutely not.
Vote: ash
So we're not lynching Maquis then?
This game is my Bankers now.
What's Bankers? What is that claim? I...no...he's lying. No Freaking way SK is Yates, absolutely not.
Vote: ash
If SK is Yates we already lost. That's all. I can say why in a bit, but this is clearly a scum gambit.
If SK is Yates we already lost. That's all. I can say why in a bit, but this is clearly a scum gambit.
Forget waiting, we're already screwed, being mysterious isn't helping anybody. And if you're town unvote for crying out loud. We already already we aren't killing the SK today.
Won't scum kill me? No, I can guarantee I'll be around tomorrow with my night survival skills.
If SK is Yates we already lost. That's all. I can say why in a bit, but this is clearly a scum gambit.
Forget waiting, we're already screwed, being mysterious isn't helping anybody. And if you're town unvote for crying out loud. We already already we aren't killing the SK today.
He is obviously lying, and if he's not then we already lost. I'm not believing SK!Yates for one second, just look how he said:Won't scum kill me? No, I can guarantee I'll be around tomorrow with my night survival skills.
Completely forgetting about SK being bulletproof. This is, quite literally, a MQ confession, a gambit because he knows he's the lynch. Don't believe ash just because he claimed scum, that's exactly what MQ would do in his position.
If SK is Yates we already lost. That's all. I can say why in a bit, but this is clearly a scum gambit.
Forget waiting, we're already screwed, being mysterious isn't helping anybody. And if you're town unvote for crying out loud. We already already we aren't killing the SK today.
He is obviously lying, and if he's not then we already lost. I'm not believing SK!Yates for one second, just look how he said:Won't scum kill me? No, I can guarantee I'll be around tomorrow with my night survival skills.
Completely forgetting about SK being bulletproof. This is, quite literally, a MQ confession, a gambit because he knows he's the lynch. Don't believe ash just because he claimed scum, that's exactly what MQ would do in his position.
Just saying something is obvious doesn't make it obvious, for the record. I don't understand why he couldn't be Yates, joth randomized the roles, seems plausible. Unless your big secret is that you're Yates I don't see a compelling reason to disbelieve him.
Nope, I don't understand why you don't believe him. You're original argument seemed to center on the SK not being Yates and when I pointed out it's possible you just removed that from your argument and doubled down on him not being SK. So, which is it? And why?
Nope, I don't understand why you don't believe him. You're original argument seemed to center on the SK not being Yates and when I pointed out it's possible you just removed that from your argument and doubled down on him not being SK. So, which is it? And why?
Well, hmm, yeah, you're right, I was confusing there, mostly because I went back and forth on what guarantees ash's MQ. Okay, I'll explain.
If ash is SK!Yates, we already lost, so we can just remove that from the realm of possibilites. But he could still be SK, right? Well, the quote I mentioned has him forgetting that he's bulletproof, therefore he's not SK, which means he's MQ.
Confusing? Yeah. But I see no reason to think ash's SK instead of MQ here anyway, so that single quote's enough to continue my vote on him.
I think MiX has a point. In Ash's claim, he specifically asked us whether scum wouldn't just kill him because he's trying to get town to buy into the idea that he might consider kingmaking on the side of town.
More specifically, he referred to his "nighttime survival skills" as the reason why the Maquis wouldn't kill him in the night. That appears to be referring to Yates's ability as a commuter, whereas the SK should just know that they can never be killed at night because of the bulletproof. It's now possible that Ash will sidestep it by insisting that he meant the SK's nighttime survival skills, but it's also possible that if he's actually Maquis, he's trying to warn the SK off targeting him.
Nope, I don't understand why you don't believe him. You're original argument seemed to center on the SK not being Yates and when I pointed out it's possible you just removed that from your argument and doubled down on him not being SK. So, which is it? And why?
Well, hmm, yeah, you're right, I was confusing there, mostly because I went back and forth on what guarantees ash's MQ. Okay, I'll explain.
If ash is SK!Yates, we already lost, so we can just remove that from the realm of possibilites. But he could still be SK, right? Well, the quote I mentioned has him forgetting that he's bulletproof, therefore he's not SK, which means he's MQ.
Confusing? Yeah. But I see no reason to think ash's SK instead of MQ here anyway, so that single quote's enough to continue my vote on him.
There's no reason we lose with SK Yates, if anything the SK power more or less negate a one shot commute. Why do you think it's so powerful? And that quote seems like exactly what it is, SK can't be NK'd. Once again, I don't understand your argument. This is getting old.
I think MiX has a point. In Ash's claim, he specifically asked us whether scum wouldn't just kill him because he's trying to get town to buy into the idea that he might consider kingmaking on the side of town.
More specifically, he referred to his "nighttime survival skills" as the reason why the Maquis wouldn't kill him in the night. That appears to be referring to Yates's ability as a commuter, whereas the SK should just know that they can never be killed at night because of the bulletproof. It's now possible that Ash will sidestep it by insisting that he meant the SK's nighttime survival skills, but it's also possible that if he's actually Maquis, he's trying to warn the SK off targeting him.
I think MiX has a point. In Ash's claim, he specifically asked us whether scum wouldn't just kill him because he's trying to get town to buy into the idea that he might consider kingmaking on the side of town.
More specifically, he referred to his "nighttime survival skills" as the reason why the Maquis wouldn't kill him in the night. That appears to be referring to Yates's ability as a commuter, whereas the SK should just know that they can never be killed at night because of the bulletproof. It's now possible that Ash will sidestep it by insisting that he meant the SK's nighttime survival skills, but it's also possible that if he's actually Maquis, he's trying to warn the SK off targeting him.
I think MiX has a point. In Ash's claim, he specifically asked us whether scum wouldn't just kill him because he's trying to get town to buy into the idea that he might consider kingmaking on the side of town.
More specifically, he referred to his "nighttime survival skills" as the reason why the Maquis wouldn't kill him in the night. That appears to be referring to Yates's ability as a commuter, whereas the SK should just know that they can never be killed at night because of the bulletproof. It's now possible that Ash will sidestep it by insisting that he meant the SK's nighttime survival skills, but it's also possible that if he's actually Maquis, he's trying to warn the SK off targeting him.
Why does it refer more to the commuter night actions than SK?
Also, that was directed at Space.
Also, that was directed at Space.
Aww, I had a response readied and everything! That actually seems to make as much sense directed at Space as it does at me.
Also, that was directed at Space.
Aww, I had a response readied and everything! That actually seems to make as much sense directed at Space as it does at me.
My original question was directed at Space, that's why I quoted them and then asked the question. I know I said I wouldn't coach but hell if I can't stop myself anymore. You realize that I ask questions to specific people to gauge their responses and see where they fall, right? When you pop in to answer every question I pose to everybody else it's impossible for me to a grasp on them, impossible for me to see you as town since you're refusing to let me get my own reads, and it makes it unbelievably easy for somebody to buddy you while showing no original thought? "Oh, MiX has a point here..." Sometimes you just have to tone it down and wait for somebody else to respond first.
Also, that was directed at Space.
Aww, I had a response readied and everything! That actually seems to make as much sense directed at Space as it does at me.
My original question was directed at Space, that's why I quoted them and then asked the question. I know I said I wouldn't coach but hell if I can't stop myself anymore. You realize that I ask questions to specific people to gauge their responses and see where they fall, right? When you pop in to answer every question I pose to everybody else it's impossible for me to a grasp on them, impossible for me to see you as town since you're refusing to let me get my own reads, and it makes it unbelievably easy for somebody to buddy you while showing no original thought? "Oh, MiX has a point here..." Sometimes you just have to tone it down and wait for somebody else to respond first.
I'm sorry, I thought you wanted to know why we're still voting for ash...I believe lynching him today is more important than getting reads, but I suppose we can do both...also, feel free to coach, I don't mind. I'll stay in the backlines then, my vote is placed, I've stated my reasons, doubt I'll change it today-
Great googly moogly! So much going on!
I’m on a flight for the next three hours. I’d like to know what ADK thinks of this latest turn of events.
Rae, I think you and I are town. Who’s our third?
Joth, when is the deadline?
And from your argument there's no reason to think MQ made it over SK. I really can't believe you DON'T believe him considering you've taken everybody else's claims at face value. That alone is enough to make me mistrustful of your assessment, especially since it so conveniently fits your already established view of a MQ Ash.
Rae, I think you and I are town. Who’s our third?
And from your argument there's no reason to think MQ made it over SK. I really can't believe you DON'T believe him considering you've taken everybody else's claims at face value. That alone is enough to make me mistrustful of your assessment, especially since it so conveniently fits your already established view of a MQ Ash.
Is this targeted at me, or at MIX?
If me, could you please clarify what the "it" in the first sentence is? I think you're referring to the "case" that Maquis!Ash would say the thing about nighttime protection that SK!Ash would not, but then I'm confused as to why the rest doesn't follow for you, so it would be helpful to me if you could break it down a little.
I think MiX has a point. In Ash's claim, he specifically asked us whether scum wouldn't just kill him because he's trying to get town to buy into the idea that he might consider kingmaking on the side of town.
More specifically, he referred to his "nighttime survival skills" as the reason why the Maquis wouldn't kill him in the night. That appears to be referring to Yates's ability as a commuter, whereas the SK should just know that they can never be killed at night because of the bulletproof. It's now possible that Ash will sidestep it by insisting that he meant the SK's nighttime survival skills, but it's also possible that if he's actually Maquis, he's trying to warn the SK off targeting him.
Why does it refer more to the commuter night actions than SK?
Because it refers to both. A SK that has Yates looks at it and sees "sweet, cop protection", not one-shot bulletproof, yet when he said "nighttime survival skillS" (notice the "S"), he's counting both. This is because he's MQ, and as MQ he doesn't want to get NKd (his teammate already got NKd so he knows it can happen), which means he looks at the ability and sees, well, one-shot bulletproof, like town. But that functionality makes no sense as full-bulletproof SK. Thus, he's not SK.
There's also the fact that there's no reason to assume SK made this claim instead of MQ. Really, what makes him more SK than any other player right now? We know he's scum, but what else? I think MQ would absolutely claim SK here and pull the same gambit he is doing and I don't see why SK would have more of an incentive to do so (they would both do this). Given I was scumreading him as MQ, I don't see why the claim makes him SK.
So, ADK is scum either way?
So, ADK is scum either way?
Seems like it to me.
Ash, who is MQ?
Ash, who is MQ?
MiX + SA if I had to say right now from the gut. I know there are a few reasons out there for why it is unlikely, but all things are doable.
You could swap in any other player for SA and I’d not be surprised.
@Ash, why'd you kill shraeye?
Ash, who is MQ?
MiX + SA if I had to say right now from the gut. I know there are a few reasons out there for why it is unlikely, but all things are doable.
You could swap in any other player for SA and I’d not be surprised.
Does everyone love to forget Space was copped N1? How in any way would that happen when Space is MQ?
No, no skilled player rolls SK and is pumped about The Godfather portion.
Believe me or not, but plural skills regarding night survival would have to count all of my nighttime survival skills. I also have a degree in English, which explains my lacking math skills.
No, no skilled player rolls SK and is pumped about The Godfather portion.
MiX argues “facts” that are just his opinions of optimal play which are woefully suboptimal. Even his argument for why any player might lie about this are flawed. His argument about how/what happens once we correctly lynch him is also flawed. But it’s all to protect himself, like all of his play has been all game.@Ash, why'd you kill shraeye?
All kills until faust were just mafia/cop hunting guesses, except Jimmmmmm, who literally always catches me as scum.
No, no skilled player rolls SK and is pumped about The Godfather portion.
What did you think about when you saw you got Yates?
Believe me or not, but plural skills regarding night survival would have to count all of my nighttime survival skills. I also have a degree in English, which explains my lacking math skills.
No, no skilled player rolls SK and is pumped about The Godfather portion.
MiX argues “facts” that are just his opinions of optimal play which are woefully suboptimal. Even his argument for why any player might lie about this are flawed. His argument about how/what happens once we correctly lynch him is also flawed. But it’s all to protect himself, like all of his play has been all game.@Ash, why'd you kill shraeye?
All kills until faust were just mafia/cop hunting guesses, except Jimmmmmm, who literally always catches me as scum.
Then why not kill MiX?
No, no skilled player rolls SK and is pumped about The Godfather portion.
What did you think about when you saw you got Yates?
I thought LOL I’m double BP. Commute = BP to me, not safe from cops, like to you. My point was that it isn’t a godfather.
Alright, must go. Back in a few.
Joth, when is the deadline?
BP saves me, mafia know who I am. I can now commute the next night to BP again. Not like scum is going to claim the BPed kill to get me lynched.
What is so hard to understand?
In addition to these roles, the SK will gain the bulletproof and strongman modifiers
After much consideration, I’ve made the following changes: the changeling (SK) will gain full bulletproof and full strongman, neither of which will show up on odo’s Investigation.
So, to explain: ash, much like faust did earlier, only looked at the first post(s) joth made for setup information, forgetting about the changes joth made after writting the first posts; this is how faust thought SK cop was full-night (instead of even-night) and ash thought SK had a single bulletproof; both of these are changes joth made that do not reflect the first posts. The only way ash would've been caught by this is if his PM didn't state he was full BP, which is a possibility, given these two mod errors, I suppose there could be one more, but the most likely scenario is that ash DIDN'T have it in his PM because he ISN'T SK. Thus, ash isn't SK, which means he's Maquis.
Feel free to poke holes, but I believe this explains this slip perfectly.
So, to explain: ash, much like faust did earlier, only looked at the first post(s) joth made for setup information, forgetting about the changes joth made after writting the first posts; this is how faust thought SK cop was full-night (instead of even-night) and ash thought SK had a single bulletproof; both of these are changes joth made that do not reflect the first posts. The only way ash would've been caught by this is if his PM didn't state he was full BP, which is a possibility, given these two mod errors, I suppose there could be one more, but the most likely scenario is that ash DIDN'T have it in his PM because he ISN'T SK. Thus, ash isn't SK, which means he's Maquis.
Feel free to poke holes, but I believe this explains this slip perfectly.
You never said who the other MQ is. You need more people on your side to make this happen. You want my vote, answer my questions.
So, to explain: ash, much like faust did earlier, only looked at the first post(s) joth made for setup information, forgetting about the changes joth made after writting the first posts; this is how faust thought SK cop was full-night (instead of even-night) and ash thought SK had a single bulletproof; both of these are changes joth made that do not reflect the first posts. The only way ash would've been caught by this is if his PM didn't state he was full BP, which is a possibility, given these two mod errors, I suppose there could be one more, but the most likely scenario is that ash DIDN'T have it in his PM because he ISN'T SK. Thus, ash isn't SK, which means he's Maquis.
Feel free to poke holes, but I believe this explains this slip perfectly.
You never said who the other MQ is. You need more people on your side to make this happen. You want my vote, answer my questions.
It continues to be ADK. I never changed this fact. Just look at my initial post D5 and where I've voted this day.
Then let's kill him. One Maquis is just as good as the other, right?
Then let's kill him. One Maquis is just as good as the other, right?
Not really. We know ADK's PR is useless, whereas the other Maquis might have a power that can give scum an additional edge, so best play is to lynch the non-ADK Maquis.
I mean, what's left? There's no vig, no cop, no doc, everything that's left is related to voting, right?
Then let's kill him. One Maquis is just as good as the other, right?
Garak being leftover doesn't matter either because, again, no vig, no cop, no doc. Here's my concern, what if Ash is lying, what if he's loved, what if he pushes us to deadline and we end up with a No Lynch? I'd rather get a guaranteed kill than push to deadline.
Yeah, I'm scum and shamelessly and loudly defended my partner for five days. Caught me. I'm that bad at being scum.
Also, one nice thing about Ash's fakeclaim is that it really does open the way up for talking about the SK siding with town here. There are a few possible circumstances where it's useful for the SK to take out the other Maquis, so it's possible they'll follow the fake-SK's lead on that.
Yeah, I'm scum and shamelessly and loudly defended my partner for five days. Caught me. I'm that bad at being scum.
Garak being leftover doesn't matter either because, again, no vig, no cop, no doc. Here's my concern, what if Ash is lying, what if he's loved, what if he pushes us to deadline and we end up with a No Lynch? I'd rather get a guaranteed kill than push to deadline.
Impossible, scumteam is Garak/O'Brian if snow's scum. Unless...you're Garak? Impossible.
Also, one nice thing about Ash's fakeclaim is that it really does open the way up for talking about the SK siding with town here. There are a few possible circumstances where it's useful for the SK to take out the other Maquis, so it's possible they'll follow the fake-SK's lead on that.
SK will only kill MQ if we mislynch, so there's no point.
Or I’m lying town trying to out an overly aggressive SK who overplays their hand.
Or I’m really the SK trying to lure out the mafia into giving themselves away with a seemingly sloppy claim so close to day’s end.
Or I’m SK lying about being the commuter to force a counterclaim to help me choose night targets.
Lots of ORs possible (I can think of more), all of which turn out badly for town.
Also, one nice thing about Ash's fakeclaim is that it really does open the way up for talking about the SK siding with town here. There are a few possible circumstances where it's useful for the SK to take out the other Maquis, so it's possible they'll follow the fake-SK's lead on that.
SK will only kill MQ if we mislynch, so there's no point.
Not true. Think about it some more.
Yeah, I'm scum and shamelessly and loudly defended my partner for five days. Caught me. I'm that bad at being scum.
If you're townie, and we've caught Ash in a scumslip because he didn't know that the SK was fully bulletproof, then it seems like you have a strong incentive to vote for Ash.
Yeah, I'm scum and shamelessly and loudly defended my partner for five days. Caught me. I'm that bad at being scum.
If you're townie, and we've caught Ash in a scumslip because he didn't know that the SK was fully bulletproof, then it seems like you have a strong incentive to vote for Ash.
So many IFs. Might I suggest a re-think? You can’t catch scum claiming scum in a scumslip. You (especially you) should be considering how much of my claims were true, not how much were lies, and decide if the risk is worth it.
If you really think I’m not the SK or the Commuter, then doesn’t the SK kill me tonight for town anyway?
Town lying is absolutely 100% the correct move here, and you probably don’t know this yet. But you will, someday.
The other thing nobody's pointed out is that the "real" SK hasn't counter-claimed.
Garak being leftover doesn't matter either because, again, no vig, no cop, no doc. Here's my concern, what if Ash is lying, what if he's loved, what if he pushes us to deadline and we end up with a No Lynch? I'd rather get a guaranteed kill than push to deadline.
Impossible, scumteam is Garak/O'Brian if snow's scum. Unless...you're Garak? Impossible.
To test your theory, just put him at L-0, I promise I'll vote ADK after that. But you have to hurry.
Garak being leftover doesn't matter either because, again, no vig, no cop, no doc. Here's my concern, what if Ash is lying, what if he's loved, what if he pushes us to deadline and we end up with a No Lynch? I'd rather get a guaranteed kill than push to deadline.
Impossible, scumteam is Garak/O'Brian if snow's scum. Unless...you're Garak? Impossible.
To test your theory, just put him at L-0, I promise I'll vote ADK after that. But you have to hurry.
I LOVE IT WHEN YOU TELL ME WHAT TO DO.
Seriously, MiX just ensured I'm not voting for Ash today. So we can have a lynch or not, you two get to decide. Ash, come on over to ADK if you aren't there already.
Seriously, MiX just ensured I'm not voting for Ash today. So we can have a lynch or not, you two get to decide. Ash, come on over to ADK if you aren't there already.
Raerae, please, think about everyone, not just yourself. Set aside your ego, your pride, your stubborness, and believe in me. Please. This is how we'll win. Why is ADK in any way more MQ than scumslipping!ash? He's not! Dammit! I really don't want to think about an ash!raerae team but you're kinda making me do it! Just vote ash, I beg you, raerae, PLEASE.
Seriously, MiX just ensured I'm not voting for Ash today. So we can have a lynch or not, you two get to decide. Ash, come on over to ADK if you aren't there already.
Raerae, please, think about everyone, not just yourself. Set aside your ego, your pride, your stubborness, and believe in me. Please. This is how we'll win. Why is ADK in any way more MQ than scumslipping!ash? He's not! Dammit! I really don't want to think about an ash!raerae team but you're kinda making me do it! Just vote ash, I beg you, raerae, PLEASE.
You literally just accused me of being his partner. Threatening me works just as well as telling me what to do.
If you're townie, and we've caught Ash in a scumslip because he didn't know that the SK was fully bulletproof, then it seems like you have a strong incentive to vote for Ash.
So many IFs. Might I suggest a re-think? You can’t catch scum claiming scum in a scumslip. You (especially you) should be considering how much of my claims were true, not how much were lies, and decide if the risk is worth it.
Vote: ADK
You know what who cares, ash!raerae is essencially impossible. You win raerae, not gonna argue more.
Fake claiming SK as mafia is basically unforgivable if you have partners alive, because you are screwing them over. If I fake claim SK, I do it as town.
As for you being “cleared” stop resting on that possibility, given it could be from a number of other reasons. Including you being the “SK” if you want to keep pushing the idea that I am not.
I also wish raerae was my partner (or anyone really) because then I’m not in this position.
Vote: ADK
You know what who cares, ash!raerae is essencially impossible. You win raerae, not gonna argue more.
Vote: ADK
You know what who cares, ash!raerae is essencially impossible. You win raerae, not gonna argue more.
I think you should move back to Ash. At least one of WDC and ADK have to be non-Maquis, so they should vote for Ash, then either raerae joins us, or the other Maquis sees an opportunity for townpoints, given that Ash has actually painted himself into a corner with his claim.
Also, I think you should stop any further measures to persuade raerae personally (or by proxy!), because telling her what to do in the tone you've been using is condescending and offensive. It's only a game, and none of us should be letting behaviour standards drop just because we might not win.
Vote: ADK
You know what who cares, ash!raerae is essencially impossible. You win raerae, not gonna argue more.
I think you should move back to Ash. At least one of WDC and ADK have to be non-Maquis, so they should vote for Ash, then either raerae joins us, or the other Maquis sees an opportunity for townpoints, given that Ash has actually painted himself into a corner with his claim.
Also, I think you should stop any further measures to persuade raerae personally (or by proxy!), because telling her what to do in the tone you've been using is condescending and offensive. It's only a game, and none of us should be letting behaviour standards drop just because we might not win.
Look, if you convince raerae to swap to ash, I'll do so in a heartbeat: I've given up, I have no idea how to. Feel free to try, but I'll only swap after she does.
Vote: ADK
You know what who cares, ash!raerae is essencially impossible. You win raerae, not gonna argue more.
I think you should move back to Ash. At least one of WDC and ADK have to be non-Maquis, so they should vote for Ash, then either raerae joins us, or the other Maquis sees an opportunity for townpoints, given that Ash has actually painted himself into a corner with his claim.
Also, I think you should stop any further measures to persuade raerae personally (or by proxy!), because telling her what to do in the tone you've been using is condescending and offensive. It's only a game, and none of us should be letting behaviour standards drop just because we might not win.
Look, if you convince raerae to swap to ash, I'll do so in a heartbeat: I've given up, I have no idea how to. Feel free to try, but I'll only swap after she does.
Also, vote ADK right now to test if he's Loved. If he is, we won't lynch him today, which means we'll have to go for ash: then I'll swap. So there's 2 ways of getting my vote, I would appreciate if you did the "vote ADK" one so I don't have to stay up just to move my vote.
Vote: ADK
You know what who cares, ash!raerae is essencially impossible. You win raerae, not gonna argue more.
I think you should move back to Ash. At least one of WDC and ADK have to be non-Maquis, so they should vote for Ash, then either raerae joins us, or the other Maquis sees an opportunity for townpoints, given that Ash has actually painted himself into a corner with his claim.
Also, I think you should stop any further measures to persuade raerae personally (or by proxy!), because telling her what to do in the tone you've been using is condescending and offensive. It's only a game, and none of us should be letting behaviour standards drop just because we might not win.
Look, if you convince raerae to swap to ash, I'll do so in a heartbeat: I've given up, I have no idea how to. Feel free to try, but I'll only swap after she does.
Ash, are you pushing for a no lynch right now?
Vote: ADK
You know what who cares, ash!raerae is essencially impossible. You win raerae, not gonna argue more.
I think you should move back to Ash. At least one of WDC and ADK have to be non-Maquis, so they should vote for Ash, then either raerae joins us, or the other Maquis sees an opportunity for townpoints, given that Ash has actually painted himself into a corner with his claim.
Also, I think you should stop any further measures to persuade raerae personally (or by proxy!), because telling her what to do in the tone you've been using is condescending and offensive. It's only a game, and none of us should be letting behaviour standards drop just because we might not win.
Look, if you convince raerae to swap to ash, I'll do so in a heartbeat: I've given up, I have no idea how to. Feel free to try, but I'll only swap after she does.
Also, vote ADK right now to test if he's Loved. If he is, we won't lynch him today, which means we'll have to go for ash: then I'll swap. So there's 2 ways of getting my vote, I would appreciate if you did the "vote ADK" one so I don't have to stay up just to move my vote.
If you believe ADK is O'Brien then he can't be loved.
Vote: ADK
You know what who cares, ash!raerae is essencially impossible. You win raerae, not gonna argue more.
I think you should move back to Ash. At least one of WDC and ADK have to be non-Maquis, so they should vote for Ash, then either raerae joins us, or the other Maquis sees an opportunity for townpoints, given that Ash has actually painted himself into a corner with his claim.
Also, I think you should stop any further measures to persuade raerae personally (or by proxy!), because telling her what to do in the tone you've been using is condescending and offensive. It's only a game, and none of us should be letting behaviour standards drop just because we might not win.
Look, if you convince raerae to swap to ash, I'll do so in a heartbeat: I've given up, I have no idea how to. Feel free to try, but I'll only swap after she does.
The most pro-town thing you can do is to give totally on making anything conditional on raerae. You don't get to control her.
I’m glad raerae gets it.
I am not hammering ADK because the lynch should be me or MiX, no matter what from a town perspective.
I’m glad raerae gets it.
I am not hammering ADK because the lynch should be me or MiX, no matter what from a town perspective.
The case on ADK has only been as my partner, which fails not only because it is false but also because it isn’t that strong. As far as wagon analysis goes based on the SA algorithm, that’s been cracked so it’s trivial for a scum team to game.
I am 100% for sure scum, probably. (Except where I’m not, which I’d guess is like 25% of the time here.). I am sure MiX is scum (mafia Garak probably, although if I’m town then he’s the SK).
So, there are just no other options with such great odds of flipping scum. Obviously I don’t want me to be lynched, and I 100% don’t want mafia to win, so I will do whatever it takes to lose to town.
If you still can’t “believe” I’m SK, i don’t know what to tell you. I claimed two — 2 — counterable things and everyone has posted, so if you believed all the other claims...
MiX’s wild vigor is dangerous. And now he seems to imply it could be me/Rae. He does recall there are three scums to hunt, right? Maybe he should counterclaim me.
I’m glad raerae gets it.
I am not hammering ADK because the lynch should be me or MiX, no matter what from a town perspective.
The case on ADK has only been as my partner, which fails not only because it is false but also because it isn’t that strong. As far as wagon analysis goes based on the SA algorithm, that’s been cracked so it’s trivial for a scum team to game.
I am 100% for sure scum, probably. (Except where I’m not, which I’d guess is like 25% of the time here.). I am sure MiX is scum (mafia Garak probably, although if I’m town then he’s the SK).
So, there are just no other options with such great odds of flipping scum. Obviously I don’t want me to be lynched, and I 100% don’t want mafia to win, so I will do whatever it takes to lose to town.
If you still can’t “believe” I’m SK, i don’t know what to tell you. I claimed two — 2 — counterable things and everyone has posted, so if you believed all the other claims...
ADK is scum if you're SK because MiX is scum with ADK. Since I had Space in the SK slot she falls to town with me and Didds. ADK being scum isn't entirely dependent, from my perspective, on you being his partner. I think he is regardless. Unless, maybe, if you're lying town but I can't wrap my mind around that.
I’m glad raerae gets it.
I am not hammering ADK because the lynch should be me or MiX, no matter what from a town perspective.
The case on ADK has only been as my partner, which fails not only because it is false but also because it isn’t that strong. As far as wagon analysis goes based on the SA algorithm, that’s been cracked so it’s trivial for a scum team to game.
I am 100% for sure scum, probably. (Except where I’m not, which I’d guess is like 25% of the time here.). I am sure MiX is scum (mafia Garak probably, although if I’m town then he’s the SK).
So, there are just no other options with such great odds of flipping scum. Obviously I don’t want me to be lynched, and I 100% don’t want mafia to win, so I will do whatever it takes to lose to town.
If you still can’t “believe” I’m SK, i don’t know what to tell you. I claimed two — 2 — counterable things and everyone has posted, so if you believed all the other claims...
ADK is scum if you're SK because MiX is scum with ADK. Since I had Space in the SK slot she falls to town with me and Didds. ADK being scum isn't entirely dependent, from my perspective, on you being his partner. I think he is regardless. Unless, maybe, if you're lying town but I can't wrap my mind around that.
Then MiX is scum, as you’ve been saying since like D1.
When will we on the same mafia team, anyway? Seems almost unfair to everyone else.
Space, are we locked in an epic battle of wills or would you entertain coming over to ADK?
Space, are we locked in an epic battle of wills or would you entertain coming over to ADK?
Both, and please settle it as soon as possible, I need to leave like now but I really don't want to make one of you vote my way, would rather see why you do so instead of being forced by me.
Go raerae! I believe in you! Go Space! It's your birthday, you can't be wrong!
Space, are we locked in an epic battle of wills or would you entertain coming over to ADK?
Both, and please settle it as soon as possible, I need to leave like now but I really don't want to make one of you vote my way, would rather see why you do so instead of being forced by me.
Go raerae! I believe in you! Go Space! It's your birthday, you can't be wrong!
Ahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahaha. We have soooooooooo been over this. If you're town it's absolutely to town's detriment that you won't back off on it. If you're scum, great job distracting the hell out of me with it.
I don't know, Space, how do you feel about MiX lynch just for the fun of it?
Hi! I just landed. I’m not caught up. What do I need to do?
Hi! I just landed. I’m not caught up. What do I need to do?
Hi! I just landed. I’m not caught up. What do I need to do?
Space, are we locked in an epic battle of wills or would you entertain coming over to ADK?
In other news, I'm done trying to decide which MQ to lynch, which means I'm leaving for the night. If you want a lynch, you'll have to follow me.
So, good job raerae, you win, I'll stay on ADK.
Space, vote ADK! Good night everyone!
Hi! I just landed. I’m not caught up. What do I need to do?
Can we make KiX happen?
Hi! I just landed. I’m not caught up. What do I need to do?
Okay...we have like an hour and a half, right? I saw Joth’s 4 hour list and freaked out.
I’m still not read in, yet, but I’m cool with ADK or MiX
Can we make ADK happen?
Okay...we have like an hour and a half, right? I saw Joth’s 4 hour list and freaked out.
I’m still not read in, yet, but I’m cool with ADK or MiX
Can we make ADK happen?
Okay...we have like an hour and a half, right? I saw Joth’s 4 hour list and freaked out.
I’m still not read in, yet, but I’m cool with ADK or MiX
Can we make ADK happen?
ADK can happen trivially, but that in itself worries me, because I think there are five players in the game who could vote for him, and that means he's probably not Maquis.
Guys I am super not available and a million things have happened since I looked at the thread this morning. If Ash is (likely) lying (this is based on some post a bit up) why aren't we lunching him?
Guys I am super not available and a million things have happened since I looked at the thread this morning. If Ash is (likely) lying (this is based on some post a bit up) why aren't we lunching him?
Mostly because MiX threw and entitled strop when raerae was miffed at him for acting in a controlling and entitled manner.
I don’t think I am down for lunching Ash.
I don’t think I am down for lunching Ash.
But MiX or ADK are cool by me.
ADK, are you voting for MiX?
He was at L-1 when it happened. I don’t put it past him to lie, but I’m not sure why the real SK hasn’t said so, unless that person is anti-town, too
He was at L-1 when it happened. I don’t put it past him to lie, but I’m not sure why the real SK hasn’t said so, unless that person is anti-town, too
The SK is pretty much anti-town by definition, so there's that. I don't think they benefit from counterclaiming Ash immediately. I mean, they could have claimed much earlier in the day and shrunk our lynchpool even further, but they chose not to do that...
I believe MiX when he said he was going to bed. So, his vote is staying.
Rae, would you lynch Ash?
Space, is there some reason you won’t vote for ADK?
He was at L-1 when it happened. I don’t put it past him to lie, but I’m not sure why the real SK hasn’t said so, unless that person is anti-town, too
The SK is pretty much anti-town by definition, so there's that. I don't think they benefit from counterclaiming Ash immediately. I mean, they could have claimed much earlier in the day and shrunk our lynchpool even further, but they chose not to do that...
But we NEED to lynch MQ or lose. Is he MQ?
So,
we could easily get or have
3 on MiX (Asher, Rae, WCD)
3 on ADK (MiX, Rae, WCD)
2 On Asher (ADK, Space)
For MiX to go off, we need ADK and/or Space
For ADK, we need Space and/or Ashersky
For Ash, we need Rae and WCD
Space, you are the lynchpin to two of those. Any thoughts?
@WCD, if you think it's ADK-Ash, do you agree that there's a benefit in lynching Ash first in case he's got a PR that could mess with town's ability to lynch tomorrow or something?
(Leaving aside the question for now that we've been left in the lurch with an unmovable vote on ADK)
It says 3 of us are reading. Rae, Space, me. We have to make a choice we can make happen
SA defending MiX so hard is super scummy. They are the only other person I’ll vote today. I’ll shoot the other tonight, unless there’s a better choice?
Yeah, it's unlikely to happen that we do lynch Ash, but I want to understand what kind of thinking leads to people being unwilling to even state that they think he's Maquis here, or that he should be lynched. Raerae is refusing explicitly, but the fact that WCD and ADK are just kind of umming about it, while ADK isn't even voting at all has me kind of baffled.
I don’t want to lose.
ADK not voting when he knows it’s deadline is stinking up the joint.
I haven’t had a chance to really process all of the Asher claim, BP, is it a lie stuff.
Let's do ADK, I have to go put my kid down.
I don’t want to lose.
ADK not voting when he knows it’s deadline is stinking up the joint.
I haven’t had a chance to really process all of the Asher claim, BP, is it a lie stuff.
Even if you're Dax and town, it wasn't looking great even at the start of the day. MiX's logic helped us a bunch, though his manner definitely hurt us, as I think did the fact that he left his vote on ADK instead of Ash. I'm completely sold on it being a lie both because he messed up the SK claim and also because it's Ash, and scum!Ash would 100% try to come up with a flashy claim to weasel himself out of a lynch situation, so a non-Maquis claim is approximately twice as likely to come from Maquis!Ash as from SK!Ash, since he's twice as likely to be Maquis than to be SK. That's not including the really small chance that town!Ash might produce a ridiculous lie, but if so, I'd put more blame for our loss onto him, because he'd have known what kind of people he's playing with, and how badly wrong that could go.
And yes, MiX has really bound us up with his vote. He is not my favorite.
And yes, MiX has really bound us up with his vote. He is not my favorite.
Nobody else is my favourite at this point either.
There's also another plan: What happens when only 1 of each scumteam are alive? If it results in a joint victory then we should do that instead.
There's also another plan: What happens when only 1 of each scumteam are alive? If it results in a joint victory then we should do that instead.
That’s true. Then we lynch WCD then each shoot a townie at night?
vote: mix
MiX, you played very well in my eyes, with just some issues in your style and your thinking. Once QTs are released, you can see my thoughts on the matter.
Except we can’t lynch WCD without SA.
Plan works for me, so long as we can get SA and WCD on board.
I gotta say, fakeclaiming SK was fun.
Again, sorry rae.
By playing as aggressively as he has I would not be surprised if MiX is loved, regardless of alignment.
I claimed the two things I needed to out — SK and commuter. Neither countered, so that didn’t help.
Bus drove Rae to WCD on the night we killed chicken.
RIP raerae. Sad we were both right about our top scum-picks yesterday!
I think it's pretty clear what I want to do here, but using double-voting to king-make is a bit of an abuse of power, so I'd prefer to have an ally with whom to discuss my feelings :-)
Good morning, Space!
I’m up...
Because of full BP, one of each scum team alive and no one else, assuming SK is one of the teams, is an SK win.
Also, he could have chosen to be a pro-town SK, but didn’t. I’m not sure why he think town would extend kindness to him now.
Who do you want to kingmake? I suggest both me and ash, we both played well in my opinion.
PPE 1: ... and you're still giving orders! :-P
I'm sorry it came down to king-making, MiX. Your logic was good in the end, but you need to work hard on how to be more aware of the people you're playing with as humans as well as opponents. I say this as someone else who finds people skills difficult, so I know it's hard work and can distract from the game goal in the short term. In the long term, though, it makes for much better games, because mutual respect and mutual enjoyment make for a much better environment, and lead to more and better interactions.
Vote: MiX
For some twilight post-game analysis: The reason MiX gave himself away as SK yesterday was that he kept posting SK-relevant advice to the thread. Had he been town, that would have been a really unwise thing to do, in case SK would otherwise play suboptimally and thereby assist town. I think town!MiX should have noticed it eventually, especially after I cautioned him not to, but he just kept on doing it :-P
I love it when we see the world the same way, Space.
Vote: MiX
...Goodbye. I'm actually sad. I'm sorry...
Vote: MiX
...Goodbye. I'm actually sad. I'm sorry...
Pretend this was my final post. Farewell.
I know you're smart, Space, everything I thought about you would think too. I feared nothing. Of course, I was giving advice to MQ, soooo much advice I can't even count it!
I love it when we see the world the same way, Space.
Yeah, I felt a bit bad coming to the conclusion I did all by myself this morning, so it's a big relief to find that I'm not out on a limb being unacceptably meta or something :-)
Besides, MiX also ensured we lynched ADK instead of Ash which was also not awesome
I know you're smart, Space, everything I thought about you would think too. I feared nothing. Of course, I was giving advice to MQ, soooo much advice I can't even count it!
This! No way that is pro-town!
I know you're smart, Space, everything I thought about you would think too. I feared nothing. Of course, I was giving advice to MQ, soooo much advice I can't even count it!
This! No way that is pro-town!
I know you're smart, Space, everything I thought about you would think too. I feared nothing. Of course, I was giving advice to MQ, soooo much advice I can't even count it!
This! No way that is pro-town!
I also had to do it so raerae wouldn't no lynch, which means it was sorta pro-town...at first. I also could've said MQ should shoot Dax if I really wanted to say everything.
You’re right, it’s fair that you needed to sleep. Apologies.
Vote: MiX
...Goodbye. I'm actually sad. I'm sorry...
Didds' claim was incredibly anti-town to the point where it cost town the game. There, now I have nothing else to say.
Can I post my QT?
Yep, I’m LVP, for sure. Le sigh...
One more thing: I am taking a bit of a break, but my next role madness game is going to be based on "A Series of Unfortunate Events" and it's going to be a closed setup with a lot of fun, interesting, experimental roles. Based more on the Netflix show than the books, sorry purists. Glooble is going to co-develop and co-mod.
One more thing: I am taking a bit of a break, but my next role madness game is going to be based on "A Series of Unfortunate Events" and it's going to be a closed setup with a lot of fun, interesting, experimental roles. Based more on the Netflix show than the books, sorry purists. Glooble is going to co-develop and co-mod.
I'm not sure if MVP has to be from the winning team. If so, ashersky it is. He did play very well. If not, I would give MVP to MiX. He played incredibly well, and I think he could have won this setup even without the full BP or the SK cop debuff.Doesn't have to be, but I think MiX brought about his own demise with his NK choice and therefore I would find it a bit strange if he got MVP. I agree that he played well up until that point though.
I'm not sure if MVP has to be from the winning team. If so, ashersky it is. He did play very well. If not, I would give MVP to MiX. He played incredibly well, and I think he could have won this setup even without the full BP or the SK cop debuff.Doesn't have to be, but I think MiX brought about his own demise with his NK choice and therefore I would find it a bit strange if he got MVP. I agree that he played well up until that point though.
I'm not sure if MVP has to be from the winning team. If so, ashersky it is. He did play very well. If not, I would give MVP to MiX. He played incredibly well, and I think he could have won this setup even without the full BP or the SK cop debuff.Doesn't have to be, but I think MiX brought about his own demise with his NK choice and therefore I would find it a bit strange if he got MVP. I agree that he played well up until that point though.
No way I would win LyLo with Didds and raerae alive. Completely impossible. Also, even if we lynched Space, raerae would commute (she wasn't getting lynched). Overall I increased my chances by shooting raerae.
Well your decision was to either shoot Maquis and prevent a Maquis win or town and prevent a town win. You chose to prevent a town win, no wonder town decided to give the win to Maquis after that.I'm not sure if MVP has to be from the winning team. If so, ashersky it is. He did play very well. If not, I would give MVP to MiX. He played incredibly well, and I think he could have won this setup even without the full BP or the SK cop debuff.Doesn't have to be, but I think MiX brought about his own demise with his NK choice and therefore I would find it a bit strange if he got MVP. I agree that he played well up until that point though.
No way I would win LyLo with Didds and raerae alive. Completely impossible. Also, even if we lynched Space, raerae would commute (she wasn't getting lynched). Overall I increased my chances by shooting raerae.
Think about it from my perspective: I would never had won, ever, if I killed ash. Killing town enabled a kingmaking decision which was better than certain death. I completely underestimated town's hatred of me and my play, however: in hindsight, I suppose I had already lost. Regardless, if I was thinking about kingmaking, then I would've done the same, MQ played better than town in my opinion.Well your decision was to either shoot Maquis and prevent a Maquis win or town and prevent a town win. You chose to prevent a town win, no wonder town decided to give the win to Maquis after that.I'm not sure if MVP has to be from the winning team. If so, ashersky it is. He did play very well. If not, I would give MVP to MiX. He played incredibly well, and I think he could have won this setup even without the full BP or the SK cop debuff.Doesn't have to be, but I think MiX brought about his own demise with his NK choice and therefore I would find it a bit strange if he got MVP. I agree that he played well up until that point though.
No way I would win LyLo with Didds and raerae alive. Completely impossible. Also, even if we lynched Space, raerae would commute (she wasn't getting lynched). Overall I increased my chances by shooting raerae.
Think about it from my perspective: I would never had won, ever, if I killed ash. Killing town enabled a kingmaking decision which was better than certain death. I completely underestimated town's hatred of me and my play, however: in hindsight, I suppose I had already lost. Regardless, if I was thinking about kingmaking, then I would've done the same, MQ played better than town in my opinion.Well your decision was to either shoot Maquis and prevent a Maquis win or town and prevent a town win. You chose to prevent a town win, no wonder town decided to give the win to Maquis after that.I'm not sure if MVP has to be from the winning team. If so, ashersky it is. He did play very well. If not, I would give MVP to MiX. He played incredibly well, and I think he could have won this setup even without the full BP or the SK cop debuff.Doesn't have to be, but I think MiX brought about his own demise with his NK choice and therefore I would find it a bit strange if he got MVP. I agree that he played well up until that point though.
No way I would win LyLo with Didds and raerae alive. Completely impossible. Also, even if we lynched Space, raerae would commute (she wasn't getting lynched). Overall I increased my chances by shooting raerae.
Yep, I’m LVP, for sure. Le sigh...
Idk, I think Robz gives you a run for your money. Who gets lynched Day 1 as IC? :P
It probably would never in a million years have worked, but town's best play on Day 6 was for Space to counterclaim WCD convincingly or for WCD to admit to being Kai Winn. If they had managed to convince ash to shoot WCD, because of deathproof and/or double vote, town could win Day 7. So even at the end when ash said town had no path to victory, there was at least a Hail Mary that could have been attempted.
Think about it from my perspective: I would never had won, ever, if I killed ash. Killing town enabled a kingmaking decision which was better than certain death. I completely underestimated town's hatred of me and my play, however: in hindsight, I suppose I had already lost. Regardless, if I was thinking about kingmaking, then I would've done the same, MQ played better than town in my opinion.
You aren't wrong but you have to know your audience. Your appeal to Space and Didds was "I deserve this win." That argument was NEVER going to win those two over. Had you come at it more analytically like, "Look how long I survived under so much suspicion, this is why I killed this person and that person, I made this play because..." you might have had a better shot. But all game people have been telling you tone it down and you came in and said you deserved something, that was never going to swing your way.
Yep, I’m LVP, for sure. Le sigh...
Idk, I think Robz gives you a run for your money. Who gets lynched Day 1 as IC? :P
Well, I'm going to defend my play. If I was certain I was going to be lynched, I would have claimed, but at my last check in, it was far from clear. And to my mind the risk is worth it—I'm a long surviving player, usually, who is eventually viewed as highly suspicious, so having the ability to confirm myself as one of the remaining townies late game can be a huge advantage. I would sooner take a risk that would be awesome for town if it worked out, then do the safe thing that wastes my power and likely gets me nightkilled quick. I also just really didn't think I would get lynched. And I'm very, very, very, very, very, very, very against this trend of waiting until the absolute last minute to lynch or even L-1 anybody on Day 1, better to do it earlier and get a claim or two, so if I can in my small party discourage doing that in the future is was well worth it!
Hindsight 20/20. I can't counter 5 days of what I did into 1 day of saying "look how good I am", Didds would never, ever buy it and I hurt Space personally twice. So, no, I refuse to believe this was possible.
Hindsight 20/20. I can't counter 5 days of what I did into 1 day of saying "look how good I am", Didds would never, ever buy it and I hurt Space personally twice. So, no, I refuse to believe this was possible.
You'd be surprised how forgiving people can be when you admit you're wrong and show you've changed. But, you're right, they probably would have seen through that.
Ultimately, I think the idea that if it’s in the game or it serves the purposes of the game, then it will just be forgiven is false. We all understand the game, but the people are real.
Ultimately, I think the idea that if it’s in the game or it serves the purposes of the game, then it will just be forgiven is false. We all understand the game, but the people are real.
On the other hand, I believe that's why this is a game: everyone's playing to win according to what they drew, which means their behaviour shouldn't be held accountable unless for the purposes of a future game. These differences are something I should really change for this format.
Joth and Glooble, the flavor was GREAT. I haven't watched DS9 for a long time. I felt right back on the Space Station. Thanks for the game!
From my prospective this site is community first, game second.
Well, I personally think MiX deserves the MVP. Being the loser in a king-making scenario is rough, and he played well enough to be a winner as Joth said.
Well, I personally think MiX deserves the MVP. Being the loser in a king-making scenario is rough, and he played well enough to be a winner as Joth said.
I would be sad to see the f.ds community legitimising the kind of behaviour that made multiple other players consider /outing by awarding the aggressor an MVP. Especially when the aggressor is still insisting that behaviour shouldn't be held accountable.
Well, I personally think MiX deserves the MVP. Being the loser in a king-making scenario is rough, and he played well enough to be a winner as Joth said.
I would be sad to see the f.ds community legitimising the kind of behaviour that made multiple other players consider /outing by awarding the aggressor an MVP. Especially when the aggressor is still insisting that behaviour shouldn't be held accountable.
Ultimately, I think the idea that if it’s in the game or it serves the purposes of the game, then it will just be forgiven is false. We all understand the game, but the people are real.
On the other hand, I believe that's why this is a game: everyone's playing to win according to what they drew, which means their behaviour shouldn't be held accountable unless for the purposes of a future game. These differences are something I should really change for this format.
faust managed to make himself an IC, which is a pretty impressive feat in this setup. And he went so many nights without being killed.
This game has honestly gone on so long it's hard for me to consider people's play holistically. Like someone said Shraeye should be MVP and I'm like "what did Shraeye do? I've slept since then". So I guess this is my way of saying I'm considering nominations.
My QT: https://quicktopic.com/52/H/rFk3vK6R7ytLX
Maquis: https://quicktopic.com/52/H/srKdhmWwEPP
Did anyone notice I never once used the word Maquis (or MU) in my posts?
My QT: https://quicktopic.com/52/H/rFk3vK6R7ytLX
Maquis: https://quicktopic.com/52/H/srKdhmWwEPP
Did anyone notice I never once used the word Maquis (or MU) in my posts?
Just out of curiosity, did you think I believed your claim?
My QT: https://quicktopic.com/52/H/rFk3vK6R7ytLX
Maquis: https://quicktopic.com/52/H/srKdhmWwEPP
Did anyone notice I never once used the word Maquis (or MU) in my posts?
Just out of curiosity, did you think I believed your claim?
That reminds me: what did you think would happen during the night? Did you think I would shoot Space or ash?
faust managed to make himself an IC, which is a pretty impressive feat in this setup. And he went so many nights without being killed.
faust's ICness was wasted by him having...well...really bad reads.
faust managed to make himself an IC, which is a pretty impressive feat in this setup. And he went so many nights without being killed.
This.faust managed to make himself an IC, which is a pretty impressive feat in this setup. And he went so many nights without being killed.
faust's ICness was wasted by him having...well...really bad reads.
I disagree that a good IC must have good reads. Like, of course it's better if the IC is also clairvoyant. But it's town who screws themselves (with scum help) when everybody says "well, XXX is the IC, so we have to do exactly what they say"
IC is a voice you can trust. And as a paranoid town member that is invaluable.
I already asked this in the speccy, but is there any way we would have lynched MiX for being sk, assuming enough of us were convinced?
I already asked this in the speccy, but is there any way we would have lynched MiX for being sk, assuming enough of us were convinced?
I thought he was SK for the last couple of days, but it was all vague sense stuff. I’m not sure I could have made an argument that would have swayed anyone but Raerae.
My QT: https://quicktopic.com/52/H/rFk3vK6R7ytLX
Maquis: https://quicktopic.com/52/H/srKdhmWwEPP
Did anyone notice I never once used the word Maquis (or MU) in my posts?
Just out of curiosity, did you think I believed your claim?
But what if we had agreed? When I suggested that he was SK, it seemed like most people thought we had other priorities.I already asked this in the speccy, but is there any way we would have lynched MiX for being sk, assuming enough of us were convinced?
I thought he was SK for the last couple of days, but it was all vague sense stuff. I’m not sure I could have made an argument that would have swayed anyone but Raerae.
Yeah, I flubbed that with the tie in to shraeye. I think that was the hang up that most people had with my argument. (Maybe? I might just be awful at convincing people of things.)
I'm officially calling it-- ash MVP.