(https://i.imgur.com/ADD64yp.png)
You are Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel, a Vanilla Townie. Your only weapons are your voice and your vote.
You win when all non-town-aligned players have been eliminated, or nothing can prevent it.
This is your personal private topic, which may be used at any time.
@faust: Should I call this Philosopher's Mafia II or something?Based on the current name, Philosopher's Mafia² seems more appropriate. But really I don't mind. It's good to have a different name for later reminiscing, but that's about it.
All roles are guaranteed to come from the following list:Though I have to say, the setup seems a bit bland.
/in
/in
I didn't say it in the other thread, but WELCOME BACK!
Regarding that, I don't have a setup locked in yet so now's the perfect time to iron this out, but are there any other traditionally ambiguous roles on that list that I haven't clarified which version I'd use?Things that come to mind:
I'm trying to make a list of roles/modifiers similar-but-not-identical-to the mafiascum Normal list for use in games like this in the future too. I left some things off just because I don't like them and would never use them and may as well make that explicit rather than make people guess. I left off redirectors/bus-drivers because I suspect they should only be included in RMM or open games and not anything we're calling normal.You may want to have a look at previous work by ashersky (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14568.0) and me (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14569.0). This thread (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13960.0) is also relevant. In particular I've noticed that you have kept the meaningless distinction between role and modifier from mafiascum. EDIT: I see that you have participated in the discussion way back when. I suppose you are already aware of this then.
- You have Miller here but not Godfather. Intentional?Actually yes! I want cops to be able to trust innocent results perfectly, I don't want things like Neapolitan to have that over them (also note that I don't have Vanilla cop, only Neapolitan, same logic basically.) But I like scum being able to fake claim Miller. That might be stupid and I should maybe just remove Miller...
You may want to have a look at previous work by ashersky (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14568.0) and me (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14569.0). This thread (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13960.0) is also relevant. In particular I've noticed that you have kept the meaningless distinction between role and modifier from mafiascum. EDIT: I see that you have participated in the discussion way back when. I suppose you are already aware of this then.I did look at both of those, I think in the past I even said something like "roles will be taken from faust's list or the mafiascum one" or something like that. Without looking back right now I seem to remember the idea of your lists being to list all (for some value of all) the common roles. I'm totally in favor of using Redirector or Bus Driver or some of the other ones in RMM or open normal games, but I'm trying to make a more limited list of the more predictable roles, and realized that what I see as the line between not-too-weird and what is most often used isn't really explicit and I wanted to reduce the outguessing-the-mod element to some extent.
What is it about the study of philosophy that tends to make brilliant minds stupid when it comes down to what are known as actual cases? Consider Martin Heidegger, Bertrand Russell, Jean-Paul Sartre, and Ludwig Wittgenstein, the four great names in twentieth-century philosophy: the first was a Nazi, the second died certain that America was responsible for all the world’s evil, the third was a Stalinist long after any justification for being so could be adduced, and the fourth lived on the borders of madness most of his life. Contemplation of the lives of philosophers is enough to drive one to the study of sociology.
Like silverspawn said, a closed setup really isn't that big a jump, I'm sure you'll be fine. Glad to have you.
I've never played a closed setup before, but I've played plenty of mafia before, so how badly can this go, right?
...right? besides, I see that you're always short of players, and I have been reading the flavor...
If extensive knowledge of the webcomic isn't needed, and you wont hate me forever for making many noob mistakes, /in
If extensive knowledge of the webcomic isn't needed, and you wont hate me forever for making many noob mistakes, /in
Don't worry, I'm here to make mistakes too! You won't feel lonely, I guarantee you.
Also, read the flavour, it's amazing/addictive and knowing the theme's always fun.
I'm happy to co-mod. Would be great to get some mod chops back before I mod my own game again.
If extensive knowledge of the webcomic isn't needed, and you wont hate me forever for making many noob mistakes, /in
yeah... I'm in. (terrible mistake)
“Naturally, in the course of my life I have made lots of mistakes, large and small, for one reason or another, but at the heart of it all, every time I made a mistake it was because I was not joining enough mafia games.”
yeah... I'm in. (terrible mistake)
Wow, long time no see raerae and shraeye! raerae, you should play!
I've always wondered - shraeye, how do you pronounce your name?
I stayed up too late focussing on something else last night.Gotta watch that late-night Aussie Open, I feel ya.
If a random bandwagon is not the optimal strategy for town on day 1, explain to me why and I shall gladly retract my vote.
I regard it as the virtuous thing to do to ensure the highest chance for the not scum to win.
Google's AI just schooled a bunch of human pros in sc2. How long will it take before it can play mafia? What does it mean for AI to beat humans at mafia? What does it mean for AI not to beat humans at mafia? Is it scummy or towny to open a game with meaningless philosophy? Will I get another day 1 wagon this game? Why are there so many questions? Why is only one of them easy?
If a random bandwagon is not the optimal strategy for town on day 1, explain to me why and I shall gladly retract my vote.
I regard it as the virtuous thing to do to ensure the highest chance for the not scum to win.
I am not saying that it is not the optimal strategy, or am I? Who are the not scum and why do you want them to win?
Will I vote: MiX and join your wagon?
Answering questions is super scummy. vote: arishipshape
every time I have crossed someone day 1 I ended up dead.
arishpshape posts EXACTLY how I would post my first post in my first game, therefore he is town; regardless, I do believe giving newbies a D1 pass has become customary: by those I clearly mean myself, arishpshape and Debatepro.
Love silverspawn's response, disagree with the votes as I've said.
I've read some recent games, in those, I don't think I've seen shraeye nor raerae, so I consider them my biggest threats.
In that case, vote: shraeye , you look like a better person to get reactions from, for no reason whatsoever.
You really post like me...I like your style! Besides, even without the newbie pass, I still consider you town, I believe scum would talk to their summates first, diminishing that "first post" feel when they do talk in public, at least for a new person.
I am blatantly buddying you aren't I? I should prepare myself for when you're scum...
This be some bizarre buddying behavior from MiX followed by his conclusion that he should be prepared for his buddy to be scum, when buddying is a term that I would associate with something scum does.
Obviously this conclusively proves him to be scum.
Vote: MiX
I had no idea this game was so easy.
Buddying with me may be a good move, or an awful one.
Buddying with me may be a good move, or an awful one.
So which is it? A good move or an awful one?
Google's AI just schooled a bunch of human pros in sc2. How long will it take before it can play mafia? What does it mean for AI to beat humans at mafia? What does it mean for AI not to beat humans at mafia? Is it scummy or towny to open a game with meaningless philosophy? Will I get another day 1 wagon this game? Why are there so many questions? Why is only one of them easy?
To answer your questions, computers will never play mafia as well as humans, AI can only "win" in the sense that it can take the correct copy-pasted messages at given times to fool humans, who will eventually catch on, AI don't beat humans because mafia is to subjective for computers to fully understand...
On a serious note, what are the odds two new players would be Mafia?
Super upset you all beat me to the shraeye wagon. Regardless, vote: shraeye.One should never know too precisely whom one has married.
PS: We played roughly a thousand years ago so if you're really all about that you can go look at our former games (Mafia teens and twenties?). Also, he is my IRL husband and I will show him no mercy.
This be some bizarre buddying behavior from MiX followed by his conclusion that he should be prepared for his buddy to be scum, when buddying is a term that I would associate with something scum does.
On a serious note, what are the odds two new players would be Mafia? I only ask because buddying seems to be a tactic some Mafia use for new players, but what happens if the buddies are new? Next level mafia play or ...?
No need to dumb it down for me, I picked up what you were putting down in that first post but I was curious whether you thought it was a good idea or a bad one. Fairly straight-forward yes or no question. You used quite a few more words than that. Interesting.
Vote: arishipshape
But without excess verbiage how am I to remain true to the theme of this mafia game? Philosophers are forced to use "quite a few more words than that" to express convoluted and nuanced thoughts. Sure, if you asked if it was a good idea I could have just said "yes", but that gives the town nearly no information about me. If I speak far more than "yes", it is not due to scummyness, but due to the underlying philosophy that my words are endowed with.
That for which we find words is something already dead in our hearts. There is always a kind of contempt in the act of speaking.Where is this from?
Also I'm the SK
vote: arishipshape. Cluttering the thread.
Also I'm the SK
Doesn't SK stand for Serial Killer? Doesn't this mean we should immediately lynch you?
vote: arishipshape. Cluttering the thread.
How dare you! Cluttering the thread is no sin, unless you can prove one of my posts added no new information. Allow me to prove my point. The meaning and essence of the social deduction game Mafia is in the talking. The games mechanics are very simplistic and mostly irrelevant to the game. The point is in the players discussions. If the point of "mafia" is for the players to discuss, discussing cannot possibly be against the spirit of the game! Discussing, or as you so poorly put it, "cluttering the thread", is actually assisting the town by providing it with relevant information about my thought process, as well as ample quotes for me and everyone else to use as proof for or against me.
Oh, thank you LaLight, was that for me? Regardless, FoS: LaLight, seems opportunist, maybe it's just the OMGUS talking, but still.
I hate how the two wagons thus far are me and arishpshape: not only are we "relative newbies", as LaLight pointed out, we are also the most active players, is this how all D1s go?
Another thing: LaLight, who's the fourth "relative newbie"? Is it Dylan?
I hate how the two wagons thus far are me and arishpshape: not only are we "relative newbies", as LaLight pointed out, we are also the most active players, is this how all D1s go?Silence is worse; all truths that are kept silent become poisonous.
The charm of knowledge would be small indeed, were it not that there is so much shame to be overcome on the way to it.That for which we find words is something already dead in our hearts. There is always a kind of contempt in the act of speaking.Where is this from?
Also I'm the SK
Doesn't SK stand for Serial Killer? Doesn't this mean we should immediately lynch you?
Yeah that's Joseph's meta, claiming SK, don't ask me why that's a thing; however, killing someone because they're SK is (kinda) SK-hunting, which tends to be scummy, since the people that are more scared of SK than scum are scum themselves.vote: arishipshape. Cluttering the thread.
How dare you! Cluttering the thread is no sin, unless you can prove one of my posts added no new information. Allow me to prove my point. The meaning and essence of the social deduction game Mafia is in the talking. The games mechanics are very simplistic and mostly irrelevant to the game. The point is in the players discussions. If the point of "mafia" is for the players to discuss, discussing cannot possibly be against the spirit of the game! Discussing, or as you so poorly put it, "cluttering the thread", is actually assisting the town by providing it with relevant information about my thought process, as well as ample quotes for me and everyone else to use as proof for or against me.
That whole post is a very good example of cluttering the thread, which is usually bad because it makes rereads of previous days more difficult, thus is inherently anti-town. I can't believe my townread is doing so many scummy things at once...I still think it's part of his town meta, gut feeling for that, but anti-town behavior should still be minimized.
I hate how the two wagons thus far are me and arishpshape: not only are we "relative newbies", as LaLight pointed out, we are also the most active players, is this how all D1s go?Silence is worse; all truths that are kept silent become poisonous.
I hate how the two wagons thus far are me and arishpshape: not only are we "relative newbies", as LaLight pointed out, we are also the most active players, is this how all D1s go?Silence is worse; all truths that are kept silent become poisonous.
I completely missed Uncleeurope...odd, maybe it's because I've actually seen him play.
I like wagons too, just not the current ones, those guys are my top townreads!
...I STILL want something from shraeye, his wife already talked, why can't he?I hate how the two wagons thus far are me and arishpshape: not only are we "relative newbies", as LaLight pointed out, we are also the most active players, is this how all D1s go?Silence is worse; all truths that are kept silent become poisonous.
Agreed, silence is worse than being wagoned, but is silence better or worse for scum? I think the answer can never be known...
Philosophical rambling was good at the start of the game, but now it's getting scummy. vote: faust for doing it too muchEvery profound spirit needs a mask.
Was that an ace attorney reference? Also, why is philosophical rambling scummy? Even good philosophers ramble from time to time.Philosophical rambling was good at the start of the game, but now it's getting scummy. vote: faust for doing it too muchEvery profound spirit needs a mask.
Also we haven't clarified pronouns, it's now a thing to do that at the start of every mafia game. @ all new players: what's your preferred pronoun?Forums and pronouns don't mix. There are to many people "he" or "she" could be referring to. Just call everyone by name. If you insist on utilizing pronouns, "he" will do fine for me.
here goes the scumslip! vote: ssSS is silverspawn, right?
here goes the scumslip! vote: ssI don't see it
Silence is unequivocally, always, disregarding everything, no matter what better for scum.Don't think that silence and constant talking are the only two options. Talking as much as possible does NOT always help town. Information = good, clutter = bad. interactions = good, rambling = bad
And I may not read the longer manifestos. So please don't bury important stuff in your musings!Seconded.
SS is silverspawn, right?
Also we haven't clarified pronouns, it's now a thing to do that at the start of every mafia game. @ all new players: what's your preferred pronoun?Forums and pronouns don't mix. There are to many people "he" or "she" could be referring to. Just call everyone by name. If you insist on utilizing pronouns, "he" will do fine for me.
here goes the scumslip! vote: ss
SS is silverspawn, right?
I would say no, since there's no uppercase letter in my name.
Vote: MiX
Why? I'll give Joseph, faust, and UncleEurope each 1 guess.
Also we haven't clarified pronouns, it's now a thing to do that at the start of every mafia game. @ all new players: what's your preferred pronoun?
On a serious note, what are the odds two new players would be Mafia? I only ask because buddying seems to be a tactic some Mafia use for new players, but what happens if the buddies are new? Next level mafia play or ...?
You do have to realize I can only buddy someone who's active, and at the moment that was only arishpshape.
Also we haven't clarified pronouns, it's now a thing to do that at the start of every mafia game. @ all new players: what's your preferred pronoun?Forums and pronouns don't mix. There are to many people "he" or "she" could be referring to. Just call everyone by name. If you insist on utilizing pronouns, "he" will do fine for me.
He.
It gets tiresome always saying someone's name, especially when they're not perfectly lenghty such as mine; for example, I find your name hard to remember, lots of random letters with seemingly no order.here goes the scumslip! vote: ss
Would it be scummy if I ask what the scumslip is? All I can see is him saying there are only 2 new players, when there are clearly 3...I don't think this implies anything other than null.
Hello! The game's more than those 3 quotes, got anything else to add?SS is silverspawn, right?
I would say no, since there's no uppercase letter in my name.
SS is silverspawn iff the mod accepts it when written as a vote. I would test it, but I want to hear more from sharaeye before moving my vote.
PPE 2: I think it's clear that the scum team's 3 people, isn't that what's common in a 13 player game?
Vote: MiX
Why? I'll give Joseph, faust, and UncleEurope each 1 guess.
Vote: MiX
Why? I'll give Joseph, faust, and UncleEurope each 1 guess.
Oooh, Oooh, I know! Is it because OMGUS? Or do you have actual reasoning behind your vote?
On a serious note, what are the odds two new players would be Mafia? I only ask because buddying seems to be a tactic some Mafia use for new players, but what happens if the buddies are new? Next level mafia play or ...?
You do have to realize I can only buddy someone who's active, and at the moment that was only arishpshape.
Doing some back of the napkin math, there is less than a 10% chance that two of the three new players wind up being scum. Given that the pool size is definitely not three new players, the odds are even lower.
If the scum plan was for SCM1 to post early, then SCM2 to buddy, and then use the defense that "SCM1 was the only active player" in response to accusations of new person scummy-buddying is... a strong play.
I'd like to think that new players are capable of this tactic, even if the probability is low that you are both scum. I'm keeping with my original vote for now, but i need to re-scrutinize arishpshape's posts.
Vote: MiX
Why? I'll give Joseph, faust, and UncleEurope each 1 guess.
Oooh, Oooh, I know! Is it because OMGUS? Or do you have actual reasoning behind your vote?
So you think if those three have one guess all the others have more? Technically correct and awesome
Wait, what happened? I didn't vote! The day wasn't supposed to start until 5 and somebody is already lynched? I'm guessing they quit or something?
Wait, what happened? I didn't vote! The day wasn't supposed to start until 5 and somebody is already lynched? I'm guessing they quit or something?
Seriously, what happened at the start of the game? Nobody explained this. Why was the innocent child lynched? Was it for the theme or something?
Vote: MiX
Would it be scummy if I ask what the scumslip is? All I can see is him saying there are only 2 new players, when there are clearly 3...I don't think this implies anything other than null.4 new players, right? uncle, debate, mix and ari.
Not even the Great Mafia that rules us all can dictate the availability of players; I like your argument, but it is moot: how could we know we were the only ones active at that time (while planning, of course)?
Wait, what happened? I didn't vote! The day wasn't supposed to start until 5 and somebody is already lynched? I'm guessing they quit or something?
Seriously, what happened at the start of the game? Nobody explained this. Why was the innocent child lynched? Was it for the theme or something?
Would it be scummy if I ask what the scumslip is? All I can see is him saying there are only 2 new players, when there are clearly 3...I don't think this implies anything other than null.4 new players, right? uncle, debate, mix and ari.
MiX, it seems like you have played elsewhere? We've heard from ari. Uncle and Debate, what are your experience levels?
Would it be scummy if I ask what the scumslip is? All I can see is him saying there are only 2 new players, when there are clearly 3...I don't think this implies anything other than null.4 new players, right? uncle, debate, mix and ari.
MiX, it seems like you have played elsewhere? We've heard from ari. Uncle and Debate, what are your experience levels?
Questioning deflection? What question did I deflect? Ask me it now and I shall gladly answer. Honestly, I was going over the archives of this game and remembered that nobody ever answered my questions.This questioning deflection has some interesting timing.Wait, what happened? I didn't vote! The day wasn't supposed to start until 5 and somebody is already lynched? I'm guessing they quit or something?Seriously, what happened at the start of the game? Nobody explained this. Why was the innocent child lynched? Was it for the theme or something?
Vote: MiX
Why? I'll give Joseph, faust, and UncleEurope each 1 guess.
Good thing I didn't ask you to guess :)Vote: MiX
Why? I'll give Joseph, faust, and UncleEurope each 1 guess.
I'm not interested in guessing, why don't you clue us all in?
To the general game, I think starting a bandwagon on 1 person is better than starting 3. Therefore, I shall change my vote to vote: MiX. Especially because of that random buddying. If at any point I accidentally make an anti town vote, please explain to me why it was bad immediately, as I am still a noob.
Good thing I didn't ask you to guess :)Vote: MiX
Why? I'll give Joseph, faust, and UncleEurope each 1 guess.
I'm not interested in guessing, why don't you clue us all in?
Touche. I hereby retract my previous statement.To the general game, I think starting a bandwagon on 1 person is better than starting 3. Therefore, I shall change my vote to vote: MiX. Especially because of that random buddying. If at any point I accidentally make an anti town vote, please explain to me why it was bad immediately, as I am still a noob.
I disagree that starting a wagon on one is better than having many wagons. It makes it far to easy for scum to push for a quick lynch and for town to get pigeon-holed on a single person. I like a day one with lots of wagons and lots of interactions because it actual gives us something to look at in future days.
Good thing I didn't ask you to guess :)Vote: MiX
Why? I'll give Joseph, faust, and UncleEurope each 1 guess.
I'm not interested in guessing, why don't you clue us all in?
Why did you ask those 3 specific people? One's already voting for me anyway...
Anyway, I think your reasoning is clear, vote: dylan32, someone else needs a push to get in this game. DatSwan's also quiet, but bigger wagons are better.
PPE 3
Touche. I hereby retract my previous statement.To the general game, I think starting a bandwagon on 1 person is better than starting 3. Therefore, I shall change my vote to vote: MiX. Especially because of that random buddying. If at any point I accidentally make an anti town vote, please explain to me why it was bad immediately, as I am still a noob.
I disagree that starting a wagon on one is better than having many wagons. It makes it far to easy for scum to push for a quick lynch and for town to get pigeon-holed on a single person. I like a day one with lots of wagons and lots of interactions because it actual gives us something to look at in future days.
Unvote
Request vote count
Is that how that’s done?
This MiX wagon has been gaining a lot of traction, I just wanna make sure we aren’t at L-1 or something.
Why did you ask those 3 specific people? One's already voting for me anyway...
Anyway, I think your reasoning is clear, vote: dylan32, someone else needs a push to get in this game. DatSwan's also quiet, but bigger wagons are better.
PPE 3
Bigger wagons are better than what? Smaller wagons? Many wagons? Wooden wagons?
I wonder if answering everything instantly is good or not...
Asking and answering a question to which everyone knows the answer to is very scummy in my book.
This questioning deflection has some interesting timing.Questioning deflection? What question did I deflect? Ask me it now and I shall gladly answer. Honestly, I was going over the archives of this game and remembered that nobody ever answered my questions.
...but i need to re-scrutinize arishpshape's posts.
Good thing I didn't ask you to guess :)Vote: MiX
Why? I'll give Joseph, faust, and UncleEurope each 1 guess.
I'm not interested in guessing, why don't you clue us all in?
Why did you ask those 3 specific people? One's already voting for me anyway...
Anyway, I think your reasoning is clear, vote: dylan32, someone else needs a push to get in this game. DatSwan's also quiet, but bigger wagons are better.
PPE 3
Touche. I hereby retract my previous statement.To the general game, I think starting a bandwagon on 1 person is better than starting 3. Therefore, I shall change my vote to vote: MiX. Especially because of that random buddying. If at any point I accidentally make an anti town vote, please explain to me why it was bad immediately, as I am still a noob.
I disagree that starting a wagon on one is better than having many wagons. It makes it far to easy for scum to push for a quick lynch and for town to get pigeon-holed on a single person. I like a day one with lots of wagons and lots of interactions because it actual gives us something to look at in future days.
While multiple wagons are better than one, pushing one wagon early is better than pushing several, for wagons with 2- votes are almost meaningless, at least from my point of view.
I wonder if answering everything instantly is good or not...
I just said...Quote from: DebateproAsking and answering a question to which everyone knows the answer to is very scummy in my book.
...less than a minute later you did it again. I'd argue that this this the most scummiest statement i have ever read in all the mafia games i've ever played.
Good thing I didn't ask you to guess :)Vote: MiX
Why? I'll give Joseph, faust, and UncleEurope each 1 guess.
I'm not interested in guessing, why don't you clue us all in?
Why did you ask those 3 specific people? One's already voting for me anyway...
Anyway, I think your reasoning is clear, vote: dylan32, someone else needs a push to get in this game. DatSwan's also quiet, but bigger wagons are better.
PPE 3
I take back what is said above in this post, throwing shade on 7 other players when your getting some votes for being scummy is in fact most scummiest thin i have ever read in all the mafia games I've ever played.
But votes don't mean anything if there isn't discussion behind them. We can push four people to L-1 but if it's just a bunch of people sheeping crappy cases that doesn't tell us anything.
Unvote
Request vote count
Is that how that’s done?
This MiX wagon has been gaining a lot of traction, I just wanna make sure we aren’t at L-1 or something.
Almost forgot: because Uncleeurope asked:
Vote Count 1.MiX
arishipshape (3): silverspawn, raerae, EFHW
MiX (4): Debatepro, shraeye, faust, arishipshape
Dylan (2): DatSwan, MiX
Silverspawn (2): Joseph, LaLight
faust (1): Silverspawn
Not voting (1): Dylan32
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 ends February 01, 2019, 10:00:00 pm
Looks like I was wrong, I was at L-2, thanks for the heads up Uncle!
Feel free to point out anything wrong with this
Vote: MiX
Oh, in that case you are at L-2 again.
Just a thought experiment. Mix is new but has played in another form... it wouldn't be "inconceivable" to orchestrate the buddying with a noob (arishpshape) ruse quickly, especially given the the way he played before was a much quicker format. They probably even have a name for this tactic, which I think should be called the Vizinni when town sniffs it out.
It was RVS, where pushing wagons is better than not, in my opinion anyway.
Vote: MiXOh, in that case you are at L-2 again.
I should've been more careful while counting the votes...
By the way, why are you voting me? Still carrying the case from RVS or did someone else persuade you with their "cases"? I hear Debatepro has a very cool one.
Speaking of him...Just a thought experiment. Mix is new but has played in another form... it wouldn't be "inconceivable" to orchestrate the buddying with a noob (arishpshape) ruse quickly, especially given the the way he played before was a much quicker format. They probably even have a name for this tactic, which I think should be called the Vizinni when town sniffs it out.
I feel like I skipped this.
I have never attempted to so such a thing: conversations usually go too fast to buddy one specific person, a better scum tactic is to seem like the voice of reason, which is what I usually do. However, this is a completely different medium: things change.
It was RVS, where pushing wagons is better than not, in my opinion anyway.
But if everybody RVSs we end up with somebody at flippin' L-2 for NO REASON. We're not even 24 hours into D1, we nearly have a lynch, and we have virtually no discussion.
Just a thought experiment. Mix is new but has played in another form... it wouldn't be "inconceivable" to orchestrate the buddying with a noob (arishpshape) ruse quickly, especially given the the way he played before was a much quicker format. They probably even have a name for this tactic, which I think should be called the Vizinni when town sniffs it out.
I feel like I skipped this.
I have never attempted to so such a thing: conversations usually go too fast to buddy one specific person, a better scum tactic is to seem like the voice of reason, which is what I usually do. However, this is a completely different medium: things change.
Nah, caught one is right, I think I caught one. Maybe, probably.
There's a lot of discussion but I'm not sure anyone is scummy. No good cases so far.
I am, however, pretty sure that Debatepro is town, and arishipshape probably too. That's something.
Just a thought experiment. Mix is new but has played in another form... it wouldn't be "inconceivable" to orchestrate the buddying with a noob (arishpshape) ruse quickly, especially given the the way he played before was a much quicker format. They probably even have a name for this tactic, which I think should be called the Vizinni when town sniffs it out.
I feel like I skipped this.
I have never attempted to so such a thing: conversations usually go too fast to buddy one specific person, a better scum tactic is to seem like the voice of reason, which is what I usually do. However, this is a completely different medium: things change.
Maybe my weak theory isn't clear and given that clarity is my preeminent gift to the world i will break it down for you [Mocking.Self]. If you are running Vizinni con, you are both scum. If not, then perhaps it is only you.
There's a lot of discussion but I'm not sure anyone is scummy. No good cases so far.
I am, however, pretty sure that Debatepro is town, and arishipshape probably too. That's something.
You have no scumreads whatsoever? I find that bizarre, surely you are suspicious of someone.
I'm just saying this because I haven't spoken in a while. Anyways, here's my take of the situation. MiX gets my FOS because of the random buddying and the fact that he is quite chill with 5 votes on him. If I were in his position, I would be demanding explanations from each person voting on me. Perhaps that would be sub-optimal play, but I still think the complete lack of "what the heck guys" is a little objectionable.
Just a thought experiment. Mix is new but has played in another form... it wouldn't be "inconceivable" to orchestrate the buddying with a noob (arishpshape) ruse quickly, especially given the the way he played before was a much quicker format. They probably even have a name for this tactic, which I think should be called the Vizinni when town sniffs it out.
I feel like I skipped this.
I have never attempted to so such a thing: conversations usually go too fast to buddy one specific person, a better scum tactic is to seem like the voice of reason, which is what I usually do. However, this is a completely different medium: things change.
Maybe my weak theory isn't clear and given that clarity is my preeminent gift to the world i will break it down for you [Mocking.Self]. If you are running Vizinni con, you are both scum. If not, then perhaps it is only you.
Why do you call it the Vizinni con? WIFOM is a much better word from the same work of fiction.
I don't understand why you bolded that, care to elaborate?There's a lot of discussion but I'm not sure anyone is scummy. No good cases so far.
I am, however, pretty sure that Debatepro is town, and arishipshape probably too. That's something.
You have no scumreads whatsoever? I find that bizarre, surely you are suspicious of someone.
Notice how he said he's not SURE anyone is scummy, not that there are no scums nor that he doesn't have a hunch that specific people are being scummy.
Touche. Again, I am used to quick mafia where you could get hammered within seconds. Unvote. You keep my FOS for buddying, but I agree, insufficient for a vote.I'm just saying this because I haven't spoken in a while. Anyways, here's my take of the situation. MiX gets my FOS because of the random buddying and the fact that he is quite chill with 5 votes on him. If I were in his position, I would be demanding explanations from each person voting on me. Perhaps that would be sub-optimal play, but I still think the complete lack of "what the heck guys" is a little objectionable.
I've heard everyone's explanations; I have no reason to fight back against their cases if not by pointing out that they're wrong, panicking does not help the town effort: after all, it's still early D1
Can you unvote me/explain why you're voting me? you gave me FoS for buddying, but is that enough for a vote?
It was RVS, where pushing wagons is better than not, in my opinion anyway.
But if everybody RVSs we end up with somebody at flippin' L-2 for NO REASON. We're not even 24 hours into D1, we nearly have a lynch, and we have virtually no discussion.
A big wagon doesn't mean a lynch.
What do you mean by discussion? The setup's closed, nothing to say about that, it's too early to post reads lists, and virtually every case is RVS.
If you have something good for us to discuss, by all means, say it, but I think this day's fine.
Oh, and there ARE meaningful cases on me: Debatepro's, ari's and even shraeye's if you look closer, so it's not "for no reason".
PPE 1: guy -> gut, caught one -> caught on, before you edit it yourself
Very good point. Shraeye, why are you voting MiX?It was RVS, where pushing wagons is better than not, in my opinion anyway.
But if everybody RVSs we end up with somebody at flippin' L-2 for NO REASON. We're not even 24 hours into D1, we nearly have a lynch, and we have virtually no discussion.
A big wagon doesn't mean a lynch.
What do you mean by discussion? The setup's closed, nothing to say about that, it's too early to post reads lists, and virtually every case is RVS.
If you have something good for us to discuss, by all means, say it, but I think this day's fine.
Oh, and there ARE meaningful cases on me: Debatepro's, ari's and even shraeye's if you look closer, so it's not "for no reason".
PPE 1: guy -> gut, caught one -> caught on, before you edit it yourself
shraeye hasn't even posted his reason for voting for you, Did you guys discuss this in your QT and you're jumping the gun??
There's a lot of discussion but I'm not sure anyone is scummy. No good cases so far.
I am, however, pretty sure that Debatepro is town, and arishipshape probably too. That's something.
I'm just saying this because I haven't spoken in a while. Anyways, here's my take of the situation. MiX gets my FOS because of the random buddying and the fact that he is quite chill with 5 votes on him. If I were in his position, I would be demanding explanations from each person voting on me. Perhaps that would be sub-optimal play, but I still think the complete lack of "what the heck guys" is a little objectionable.
Oh, and there ARE meaningful cases on me: Debatepro's, ari's and even shraeye's if you look closer, so it's not "for no reason".
shraeye hasn't even posted his reason for voting for you, Did you guys discuss this in your QT and you're jumping the gun??
Oh "the most scummiest thing I have ever read in all of the mafia games I've ever played" is just this one...funny. Was that intentional?
Oh, and there ARE meaningful cases on me: Debatepro's, ari's and even shraeye's if you look closer, so it's not "for no reason".
shraeye hasn't even posted his reason for voting for you, Did you guys discuss this in your QT and you're jumping the gun??
Quoting the important part of my post: his case has a reason, he just hasn't said what it is...I think faust caught on to it, which is why I think it exists at all.
While I'm here...Debatepro, can you answer this?Oh "the most scummiest thing I have ever read in all of the mafia games I've ever played" is just this one...funny. Was that intentional?
And I apologize, Uncle; I just like to say the truth, I'll be more careful next time...however, where has ari defended me? Actually curious.
Vote: raerae
Hence my unvote.I'm just saying this because I haven't spoken in a while. Anyways, here's my take of the situation. MiX gets my FOS because of the random buddying and the fact that he is quite chill with 5 votes on him. If I were in his position, I would be demanding explanations from each person voting on me. Perhaps that would be sub-optimal play, but I still think the complete lack of "what the heck guys" is a little objectionable.
Or he's town and doesn't feel threatened because "surely they'll realize they're wrong, I know I'm town so everybody else will figure it out too." I've seen it roll both ways so it's a non-read for me.
There's a lot of discussion but I'm not sure anyone is scummy. No good cases so far.
I am, however, pretty sure that Debatepro is town, and arishipshape probably too. That's something.
You have no scumreads whatsoever? I find that bizarre, surely you are suspicious of someone.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.Vote: raerae
So you're the third? Or you just like how my name sounds when you type it?
I'm just saying this because I haven't spoken in a while. Anyways, here's my take of the situation. MiX gets my FOS because of the random buddying and the fact that he is quite chill with 5 votes on him. If I were in his position, I would be demanding explanations from each person voting on me. Perhaps that would be sub-optimal play, but I still think the complete lack of "what the heck guys" is a little objectionable.
Oh, and there ARE meaningful cases on me: Debatepro's, ari's and even shraeye's if you look closer, so it's not "for no reason".
shraeye hasn't even posted his reason for voting for you, Did you guys discuss this in your QT and you're jumping the gun??
Quoting the important part of my post: his case has a reason, he just hasn't said what it is...I think faust caught on to it, which is why I think it exists at all.
While I'm here...Debatepro, can you answer this?Oh "the most scummiest thing I have ever read in all of the mafia games I've ever played" is just this one...funny. Was that intentional?
And I apologize, Uncle; I just like to say the truth, I'll be more careful next time...however, where has ari defended me? Actually curious.
But you said if we looked closer we'd see it. Vote: shraeye I'm not convinced MiX is scum or town but shraeye has some explaining to do. Also, he's dangerous as scum, exceedingly dangerous. If shraeye flips scum, MiX is our next lynch. MiX had no reason to defend shraeye's unstated case and yet he did so they're probably a team.
Vote: raerae
It is not the ferocity of the beast of prey that requires a moral disguise but the herd animal with its profound mediocrity, timidity and boredom with itself.Touche. Again, I am used to quick mafia where you could get hammered within seconds. Unvote. You keep my FOS for buddying, but I agree, insufficient for a vote.I'm just saying this because I haven't spoken in a while. Anyways, here's my take of the situation. MiX gets my FOS because of the random buddying and the fact that he is quite chill with 5 votes on him. If I were in his position, I would be demanding explanations from each person voting on me. Perhaps that would be sub-optimal play, but I still think the complete lack of "what the heck guys" is a little objectionable.
I've heard everyone's explanations; I have no reason to fight back against their cases if not by pointing out that they're wrong, panicking does not help the town effort: after all, it's still early D1
Can you unvote me/explain why you're voting me? you gave me FoS for buddying, but is that enough for a vote?
It is towny for faust to go against his meta and raise eyebrows, and scum!faust knows this which is why he is likely to emulate it. At only one level of meta you're not likely to obtain significant information that distinguishes between scum!faust and town!faust
Why would I defend a scumbuddy's case on me if I have no reason to? Probably digging my grave with the question...
PPE
Oh, and there ARE meaningful cases on me: Debatepro's, ari's and even shraeye's if you look closer, so it's not "for no reason".
shraeye hasn't even posted his reason for voting for you, Did you guys discuss this in your QT and you're jumping the gun??
Quoting the important part of my post: his case has a reason, he just hasn't said what it is...I think faust caught on to it, which is why I think it exists at all.
While I'm here...Debatepro, can you answer this?Oh "the most scummiest thing I have ever read in all of the mafia games I've ever played" is just this one...funny. Was that intentional?
And I apologize, Uncle; I just like to say the truth, I'll be more careful next time...however, where has ari defended me? Actually curious.
There's a lot of discussion but I'm not sure anyone is scummy. No good cases so far.
I am, however, pretty sure that Debatepro is town, and arishipshape probably too. That's something.
But whhhhhyyyyy are they town? How can you be sure? Feel free to point me to post if I missed it but, frankly, I don't understand how you can be "pretty sure" of anything at this point.
arishpshape posts EXACTLY how I would post my first post in my first game, therefore he is town; regardless, I do believe giving newbies a D1 pass has become customary: by those I clearly mean myself, arishpshape and Debatepro.
Love silverspawn's response, disagree with the votes as I've said.
I've read some recent games, in those, I don't think I've seen shraeye nor raerae, so I consider them my biggest threats.
In that case, vote: shraeye , you look like a better person to get reactions from, for no reason whatsoever.
Please, though your logic comes to the correct conclusion that I am in fact town, it is completely flawed. First, the fact that I posted as you would post is completely irrelevant to my townhood. Second, if you are to spare me on the grounds that I am a "newbie", how am I to learn either strategy, nor the essence of the forum game known as mafia? If anyone here thinks I am worthy of lynching, spare me not. Regardless, any wagon on anyone besides me is beneficial to the town, from my perspective and knowledge. Therefore, vote: shraeye
You really post like me...I like your style! Besides, even without the newbie pass, I still consider you town, I believe scum would talk to their summates first, diminishing that "first post" feel when they do talk in public, at least for a new person.
I am blatantly buddying you aren't I? I should prepare myself for when you're scum...
My style is completely irrelevant to whether I am town. However, my "first post" feel actually does lend some credence to your reasoning. Keep in mind that I just unvoted you, and so you are likely to irrationally sympathize with me more than I might deserve. Whats buddying?
It is towny for faust to go against his meta and raise eyebrows, and scum!faust knows this which is why he is likely to emulate it. At only one level of meta you're not likely to obtain significant information that distinguishes between scum!faust and town!faust
Am I then forced to acknowledge this faust as null? vote: Dylan, while you have time to answer me this:
ss, why are you voting for rae?
Oh, and there ARE meaningful cases on me: Debatepro's, ari's and even shraeye's if you look closer, so it's not "for no reason".
shraeye hasn't even posted his reason for voting for you, Did you guys discuss this in your QT and you're jumping the gun??
Quoting the important part of my post: his case has a reason, he just hasn't said what it is...I think faust caught on to it, which is why I think it exists at all.
While I'm here...Debatepro, can you answer this?Oh "the most scummiest thing I have ever read in all of the mafia games I've ever played" is just this one...funny. Was that intentional?
And I apologize, Uncle; I just like to say the truth, I'll be more careful next time...however, where has ari defended me? Actually curious.
But you said if we looked closer we'd see it. Vote: shraeye I'm not convinced MiX is scum or town but shraeye has some explaining to do. Also, he's dangerous as scum, exceedingly dangerous. If shraeye flips scum, MiX is our next lynch. MiX had no reason to defend shraeye's unstated case and yet he did so they're probably a team.
Scummy because I'm questioning somebody for believing a case that literally doesn't exist yet?
Just a thought experiment. Mix is new but has played in another form... it wouldn't be "inconceivable" to orchestrate the buddying with a noob (arishpshape) ruse quickly, especially given the the way he played before was a much quicker format. They probably even have a name for this tactic, which I think should be called the Vizinni when town sniffs it out.
I feel like I skipped this.
I have never attempted to so such a thing: conversations usually go too fast to buddy one specific person, a better scum tactic is to seem like the voice of reason, which is what I usually do. However, this is a completely different medium: things change.
Maybe my weak theory isn't clear and given that clarity is my preeminent gift to the world i will break it down for you [Mocking.Self]. If you are running Vizinni con, you are both scum. If not, then perhaps it is only you.
Why do you call it the Vizinni con? WIFOM is a much better word from the same work of fiction.
I don't understand why you bolded that, care to elaborate?
Just a thought experiment. Mix is new but has played in another form... it wouldn't be "inconceivable" to orchestrate the buddying with a noob (arishpshape) ruse quickly, especially given the the way he played before was a much quicker format. They probably even have a name for this tactic, which I think should be called the Vizinni when town sniffs it out.
I feel like I skipped this.
I have never attempted to so such a thing: conversations usually go too fast to buddy one specific person, a better scum tactic is to seem like the voice of reason, which is what I usually do. However, this is a completely different medium: things change.
Maybe my weak theory isn't clear and given that clarity is my preeminent gift to the world i will break it down for you [Mocking.Self]. If you are running Vizinni con, you are both scum. If not, then perhaps it is only you.
Why do you call it the Vizinni con? WIFOM is a much better word from the same work of fiction.
I don't understand why you bolded that, care to elaborate?
It's the only part of the text i was replying to in my post, the rest was for context. Also you ask too many questions irrelevant to the discussion and are self-evident. Feels scummy... but what do i know.
Just a thought experiment. Mix is new but has played in another form... it wouldn't be "inconceivable" to orchestrate the buddying with a noob (arishpshape) ruse quickly, especially given the the way he played before was a much quicker format. They probably even have a name for this tactic, which I think should be called the Vizinni when town sniffs it out.
I feel like I skipped this.
I have never attempted to so such a thing: conversations usually go too fast to buddy one specific person, a better scum tactic is to seem like the voice of reason, which is what I usually do. However, this is a completely different medium: things change.
Maybe my weak theory isn't clear and given that clarity is my preeminent gift to the world i will break it down for you [Mocking.Self]. If you are running Vizinni con, you are both scum. If not, then perhaps it is only you.
Why do you call it the Vizinni con? WIFOM is a much better word from the same work of fiction.
I don't understand why you bolded that, care to elaborate?
It's the only part of the text i was replying to in my post, the rest was for context. Also you ask too many questions irrelevant to the discussion and are self-evident. Feels scummy... but what do i know.
I thought you were defending your "case" on me, the "case" being that I could very easily orchestrate this, given my experience; however, I said that, in the medium where I got said experience, that was not a good strategy (for the reasons I stated above). Now I think you weren't defending it at all...
1. Why are you voting for me? Is it still because of my "calculated" buddying? if so, what makes you think I "calculated" it?
2. What does "conversations usually go too fast to buddy one specific person" have to do with "If you are running Vizinni con, you are both scum. If not, then perhaps it is only you."
@ss, can you explain where you get your townread from Debatepro? I'm having a hard time seeing anything other than scum, but I'm trying to be impartial here, could just be OMGUS
Hmmm.
So far airship defended MiX and MiX defended SS and it’s weird.
well, we have 4 relative newbies, two returned vets, that's quite a playerlist I would sayAm I being counted as a returned vet?
Also we haven't clarified pronouns, it's now a thing to do that at the start of every mafia game. @ all new players: what's your preferred pronoun?I prefer mine to me "they" as I don't believe in gender. But he is fine too
It's fine, we could have an actual IC later anywayWait, what happened? I didn't vote! The day wasn't supposed to start until 5 and somebody is already lynched? I'm guessing they quit or something?
Seriously, what happened at the start of the game? Nobody explained this. Why was the innocent child lynched? Was it for the theme or something?
Flavour, the "IC" is the comod. Yes, it's confusing.Vote: MiX
I guess you know the reason and it's better than I thought.
Vote Count 1.2Would you accept SK as a valid abbreviation of my username? As I'm always the SK
(https://i.imgur.com/y5tBoYE.png)
MiX (5): Debatepro, arishipshape, shraeye, faust, Uncleeurope
arishipshape (2): raerae, EFHW
silverspawn (2): Joseph2302, LaLight
Dylan32 (2): DatSwan, MiX
faust (1): silverspawn
Not Voting (1): Dylan32
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 ends February 01, 2019, 05:00:00 pm
I would indeed accept SS, ss, SILVERSPAWN, That Particular Swan, Dylane, and anything else that isn't ambiguous, it's in my rules.
I guarantee that Joth is not scum, no matter how scummy he may appear.
Why would I defend a scumbuddy's case on me if I have no reason to? Probably digging my grave with the question...
PPE
Good thing I didn't ask you to guess :)Vote: MiX
Why? I'll give Joseph, faust, and UncleEurope each 1 guess.
I'm not interested in guessing, why don't you clue us all in?
Okay, assuming you IRL survive that sass, why do you care about their opinions more than the rest of ours?
It was a great choice of 3 people; all of them have ignored the question so far... (one had less availability, but all three have said something since then)
Why did you ask those 3 specific people? One's already voting for me anyway...
I may agree with you here. If only I could be sure of what you are saying! I'd put it more moderately as well.It is not the ferocity of the beast of prey that requires a moral disguise but the herd animal with its profound mediocrity, timidity and boredom with itself.Touche. Again, I am used to quick mafia where you could get hammered within seconds. Unvote. You keep my FOS for buddying, but I agree, insufficient for a vote.I'm just saying this because I haven't spoken in a while. Anyways, here's my take of the situation. MiX gets my FOS because of the random buddying and the fact that he is quite chill with 5 votes on him. If I were in his position, I would be demanding explanations from each person voting on me. Perhaps that would be sub-optimal play, but I still think the complete lack of "what the heck guys" is a little objectionable.
I've heard everyone's explanations; I have no reason to fight back against their cases if not by pointing out that they're wrong, panicking does not help the town effort: after all, it's still early D1
Can you unvote me/explain why you're voting me? you gave me FoS for buddying, but is that enough for a vote?
Why would I defend a scumbuddy's case on me if I have no reason to? Probably digging my grave with the question...
PPE
This has been bugging me. A better question is why would you defend ANYBODY'S case on you if you're town? I don't understand why you would say, "Look, this guy total has a legit case, just look at it!" when he hadn't actually said anything. We keep discussing this like shraeye has said ANYTHING but he hasn't done anything but vote for you and you're giving him some weird sort of cred for that.
Again, for funzies, vote:shraeye.
Space after the semi-colon to increase derphammers and fake hammers and vote miscounts I mean, I'm vote counting by hand anyway, so I'm taking a radically free approach to voting.
faust, all you've been doing this game was post famous quotes and vote people silently, where's the faust that asks questions? that acts secretive but with a purpose? that constantly makes people go for a wagon because you're scumreading them?One must still have chaos in oneself to be able to give birth to a dancing star.
I've always thought the space thing was silly.Space won't be pleased to hear this
Why would I defend a scumbuddy's case on me if I have no reason to? Probably digging my grave with the question...
PPE
This has been bugging me. A better question is why would you defend ANYBODY'S case on you if you're town? I don't understand why you would say, "Look, this guy total has a legit case, just look at it!" when he hadn't actually said anything. We keep discussing this like shraeye has said ANYTHING but he hasn't done anything but vote for you and you're giving him some weird sort of cred for that.
Vote: MiX
Why? I'll give Joseph, faust, and UncleEurope each 1 guess.
Oooh, Oooh, I know! Is it because OMGUS? Or do you have actual reasoning behind your vote?
So you think if those three have one guess all the others have more? Technically correct and awesome
Real answer: I still want more from shraeye, the vote's okay but the reasoning is what I crave! Say it so I can move on.
Vote: MiX
I guess you know the reason and it's better than I thought.
Why did you ask those 3 specific people? One's already voting for me anyway...
It was a great choice of 3 people; all of them have ignored the question so far... (one had less availability, but all three have said something since then)
Ok scincerly apologize for absence thus far. I am out of the work cluster i was in and will be catching up now and should be able to consistently be around.
Post countAirships are awesome. Feel free to call me airship.
arishipshape (not airship like most people have been posting!): 22
I don't want that! They seem like they'd be a dangerous anemone.I've always thought the space thing was silly.Space won't be pleased to hear this
Splendid work Joseph, I knew I could count on you.Clearly I miscounted, and it's 1 or 2
If it's not too much to ask, what do you think of raerae/shraeye? Oh and Debatepro.
dylan has 12 posts? well I'll be damned, I thought he hadn't posted at all!...How did you miss this?
Unvote
Request vote count
Is that how that’s done?
This MiX wagon has been gaining a lot of traction, I just wanna make sure we aren’t at L-1 or something.
Don't worry, feel free to push my mislynch, I had 4 votes before the Unvote, I've been tracking them :P
There's a lot of discussion but I'm not sure anyone is scummy. No good cases so far.
I am, however, pretty sure that Debatepro is town, and arishipshape probably too. That's something.
You have no scumreads whatsoever? I find that bizarre, surely you are suspicious of someone.
Notice how he said he's not SURE anyone is scummy, not that there are no scums nor that he doesn't have a hunch that specific people are being scummy.
PPE 2: I think it's clear that the scum team's 3 people, isn't that what's common in a 13 player game?
I'm just saying this because I haven't spoken in a while. Anyways, here's my take of the situation. MiX gets my FOS because of the random buddying and the fact that he is quite chill with 5 votes on him. If I were in his position, I would be demanding explanations from each person voting on me. Perhaps that would be sub-optimal play, but I still think the complete lack of "what the heck guys" is a little objectionable.
I've heard everyone's explanations; I have no reason to fight back against their cases if not by pointing out that they're wrong, panicking does not help the town effort: after all, it's still early D1
Can you unvote me/explain why you're voting me? you gave me FoS for buddying, but is that enough for a vote?
I want Dylan to show up. Lurking is scummy. vote: dylan MiX keeps my fos.
I remembered my hazy second point(s) about why I am worried by MiX:
Here it looked like he challenged me to vote for him as like a reverse psychology attempt or something, which I felt was misplaced and weird.Unvote
Request vote count
Is that how that’s done?
This MiX wagon has been gaining a lot of traction, I just wanna make sure we aren’t at L-1 or something.
Don't worry, feel free to push my mislynch, I had 4 votes before the Unvote, I've been tracking them :P
There is also his defense he provided for ss which struck me as not caring about scum-hunting.There's a lot of discussion but I'm not sure anyone is scummy. No good cases so far.
I am, however, pretty sure that Debatepro is town, and arishipshape probably too. That's something.
You have no scumreads whatsoever? I find that bizarre, surely you are suspicious of someone.
Notice how he said he's not SURE anyone is scummy, not that there are no scums nor that he doesn't have a hunch that specific people are being scummy.
he also kinda defended ss here, although much less blatently when he PPE'd in defending ss's "scum slip"
PPE 2: I think it's clear that the scum team's 3 people, isn't that what's common in a 13 player game?
and lastly this also felt weird to me when Mix essentially took townie advice right after he was given it by starting to ask why people were voting him more openly:I'm just saying this because I haven't spoken in a while. Anyways, here's my take of the situation. MiX gets my FOS because of the random buddying and the fact that he is quite chill with 5 votes on him. If I were in his position, I would be demanding explanations from each person voting on me. Perhaps that would be sub-optimal play, but I still think the complete lack of "what the heck guys" is a little objectionable.
I've heard everyone's explanations; I have no reason to fight back against their cases if not by pointing out that they're wrong, panicking does not help the town effort: after all, it's still early D1
Can you unvote me/explain why you're voting me? you gave me FoS for buddying, but is that enough for a vote?
Lurking is absolutely scummy! Lurking deprives the town of information, which is the one thing it lacks. If the town has information and numbers, it can easily win. Remember, the mafia fights with having information, the town numbers. The scum will never have numbers, the town can get information. But only if nobody lurks!I want Dylan to show up. Lurking is scummy. vote: dylan MiX keeps my fos.Lurking isn't scummy, these dylan votes are mostly for pressure, to make sure he does something when he does post. The vote's welcome, however.
(and my vote will stay on AIRship for the time being)
To the general game, I think starting a bandwagon on 1 person is better than starting 3. Therefore, I shall change my vote to vote: MiX. Especially because of that random buddying. If at any point I accidentally make an anti town vote, please explain to me why it was bad immediately, as I am still a noob.
Oh "the most scummiest thing I have ever read in all of the mafia games I've ever played" is just this one...funny. Was that intentional?
Why did you ask those 3 specific people? One's already voting for me anyway...
Anyway, I think your reasoning is clear, vote: dylan32, someone else needs a push to get in this game. DatSwan's also quiet, but bigger wagons are better.
PPE 3
I take back what is said above in this post, throwing shade on 7 other players when your getting some votes for being scummy is in fact most scummiest thin i have ever read in all the mafia games I've ever played.
How am I throwing shade on 7 players?
Why did you ask those 3 specific people? One's already voting for me anyway...
Anyway, I think your reasoning is clear, vote: dylan32, someone else needs a push to get in this game. DatSwan's also quiet, but bigger wagons are better.
PPE 3
I take back what is said above in this post, throwing shade on 7 other players when your getting some votes for being scummy is in fact most scummiest thin i have ever read in all the mafia games I've ever played.
How am I throwing shade on 7 players?
And which players, while you're at it, I only count 6 if you think "throwing shade" is mentioning them at all (partial quote, just cut shraeye's part).
Though it seems my two suspects are the favorite town candidates for people right now so maybe I just suck. I would be interested in hearing cases on other players at this junction.
I admit my cases on MiX aren’t the strongest. My main thoughts surrounding this is that all of them combined seems convenient and requires too many individual explaination for my liking. That combined with my paranoid feeling that you are scum makes this tricky.
As for ASS (well that didn’t work, back to AIRship) his 180 from blatantly disagreeing with me to voting for me isn’t covered by the aforementioned post. At least not to me. I think it’s fair to be suspicious of him for this reason. Especially considering how proud his post seemed to be disagreeing with me, even throwing a comic at me. Just seems odd.
Though it seems my two suspects are the favorite town candidates for people right now so maybe I just suck. I would be interested in hearing cases on other players at this junction.
This be some bizarre buddying behavior from MiX followed by his conclusion that he should be prepared for his buddy to be scum, when buddying is a term that I would associate with something scum does.
Obviously this conclusively proves him to be scum.
Vote: MiX
I had no idea this game was so easy.
(http://www.slate.com/content/dam/slate/blogs/browbeat/2011/09/29/hugo_chavez_caption_contest/fallacyMan1.jpg.CROP.promo-large.jpg)
Buddying, while suspicious, is not conclusive evidence. The fact that I am new also shrouds his decisions regarding his play towards me with doubt. His conclusion of preparation for my scum (which will not occur) is merely reactionary to the fact that again, I am new and therefore entirely unpredictable. Buddying with me may be a good move, or an awful one. Considering the man you are buddying with to possibly be scum is merely good play. Expressing that might have not been the best move, but again, you claimed conclusive evidence. Of course, considering the fallacy fallacy, this doesn't prove you wrong. I actually lean towards agreeing with you. FOS MiX, but I keep my vote. For now, I go to die. Tomorrow, you will meet the new me!
Image was obnoxiously large, I've resized it for you—Your friendly power-mad mod
No need to dumb it down for me, I picked up what you were putting down in that first post but I was curious whether you thought it was a good idea or a bad one. Fairly straight-forward yes or no question. You used quite a few more words than that. Interesting.
Vote: arishipshape
But without excess verbiage how am I to remain true to the theme of this mafia game? Philosophers are forced to use "quite a few more words than that" to express convoluted and nuanced thoughts. Sure, if you asked if it was a good idea I could have just said "yes", but that gives the town nearly no information about me. If I speak far more than "yes", it is not due to scummyness, but due to the underlying philosophy that my words are endowed with.
To the general game, I think starting a bandwagon on 1 person is better than starting 3. Therefore, I shall change my vote to vote: MiX. Especially because of that random buddying. If at any point I accidentally make an anti town vote, please explain to me why it was bad immediately, as I am still a noob.
Lurking is absolutely scummy! Lurking deprives the town of information, which is the one thing it lacks. If the town has information and numbers, it can easily win. Remember, the mafia fights with having information, the town numbers. The scum will never have numbers, the town can get information. But only if nobody lurks!
I'm just saying this because I haven't spoken in a while. Anyways, here's my take of the situation. MiX gets my FOS because of the random buddying and the fact that he is quite chill with 5 votes on him. If I were in his position, I would be demanding explanations from each person voting on me. Perhaps that would be sub-optimal play, but I still think the complete lack of "what the heck guys" is a little objectionable.
Sorry guys and gals. My car messed up this week and I've been dealing with that the last 48 hours. I'll catch up either later this evening or tomorrow.
Sorry guys and gals. My car messed up this week and I've been dealing with that the last 48 hours. I'll catch up either later this evening or tomorrow.unvote
Rereading ari, I think I can say why ari's giving you that vibe.I am exuberant or calm based on what is happening irl. For instance, on mobile I don’t have the time to hit the ! button or be flavoury, I can only say the bare minimum, like right now. I hope I’m showing caution even in my exuberant posts... oh well.
He essencially has 2 stances: one where he's exuberent, saying what's on his mind merely because he thinks it's fun; examples are all the "!" in his posts, his early posts had that feel, but his recent ones have them as all, like here:Lurking is absolutely scummy! Lurking deprives the town of information, which is the one thing it lacks. If the town has information and numbers, it can easily win. Remember, the mafia fights with having information, the town numbers. The scum will never have numbers, the town can get information. But only if nobody lurks!
And one where he's serious, trying his hardest to be as towny as possible, a good example is:I'm just saying this because I haven't spoken in a while. Anyways, here's my take of the situation. MiX gets my FOS because of the random buddying and the fact that he is quite chill with 5 votes on him. If I were in his position, I would be demanding explanations from each person voting on me. Perhaps that would be sub-optimal play, but I still think the complete lack of "what the heck guys" is a little objectionable.
Note how his exuberent state is usually flavoury, while the other shows some caution; he's scared that his moves could be anti-town.
One of the big differences between these is his position on me: in the first one, he's null on me, in the other, he's FoSing me, I believe this is where your discrepancy lies
Yes, I meant when you voted with me, not for me.There was no switch, notice the “I actually lean towards agreeing with you” in the start. I only asked you are wrong because you said it “conclusively” proves him to be mafia.
You went from this:This be some bizarre buddying behavior from MiX followed by his conclusion that he should be prepared for his buddy to be scum, when buddying is a term that I would associate with something scum does.
Obviously this conclusively proves him to be scum.
Vote: MiX
I had no idea this game was so easy.
(http://www.slate.com/content/dam/slate/blogs/browbeat/2011/09/29/hugo_chavez_caption_contest/fallacyMan1.jpg.CROP.promo-large.jpg)
Buddying, while suspicious, is not conclusive evidence. The fact that I am new also shrouds his decisions regarding his play towards me with doubt. His conclusion of preparation for my scum (which will not occur) is merely reactionary to the fact that again, I am new and therefore entirely unpredictable. Buddying with me may be a good move, or an awful one. Considering the man you are buddying with to possibly be scum is merely good play. Expressing that might have not been the best move, but again, you claimed conclusive evidence. Of course, considering the fallacy fallacy, this doesn't prove you wrong. I actually lean towards agreeing with you. FOS MiX, but I keep my vote. For now, I go to die. Tomorrow, you will meet the new me!
Image was obnoxiously large, I've resized it for you—Your friendly power-mad mod
To this:
No need to dumb it down for me, I picked up what you were putting down in that first post but I was curious whether you thought it was a good idea or a bad one. Fairly straight-forward yes or no question. You used quite a few more words than that. Interesting.
Vote: arishipshape
But without excess verbiage how am I to remain true to the theme of this mafia game? Philosophers are forced to use "quite a few more words than that" to express convoluted and nuanced thoughts. Sure, if you asked if it was a good idea I could have just said "yes", but that gives the town nearly no information about me. If I speak far more than "yes", it is not due to scummyness, but due to the underlying philosophy that my words are endowed with.
To the general game, I think starting a bandwagon on 1 person is better than starting 3. Therefore, I shall change my vote to vote: MiX. Especially because of that random buddying. If at any point I accidentally make an anti town vote, please explain to me why it was bad immediately, as I am still a noob.
Just seemed like a strange switch in a short time frame. But I could be reading too much into this.
Still waiting on faust to say something substantive...really about anything.Agreed.
I'm glad that discussion has been kickstarted, and now I can break down how I see things.
I completely missed Uncleeurope...odd, maybe it's because I've actually seen him play.At this point Dylan had not posted. The fact that he wants input from others so emphatically (but not from all) is incongruous.
I like wagons too, just not the current ones, those guys are my top townreads!
...I STILL want something from shraeye, his wife already talked, why can't he?
To be honest, I disregard the first vote on me, especially one right from the start of the game.Here he scumreads someone for voting on him. Devil-may-care + OMGUS = more incongruous.
Oh, thank you LaLight, was that for me? Regardless, FoS: LaLight, seems opportunist, maybe it's just the OMGUS talking, but still.
Real answer: I still want more from shraeye, the vote's okay but the reasoning is what I crave! Say it so I can move on.Wants the reasoning
faust gets it but Mix doesn'tVote: MiX
I guess you know the reason and it's better than I thought.
Why did you ask those 3 specific people? One's already voting for me anyway...10 posts later and he suddenly understands my reasoning. Spoiler alert: nobody explained anything in the meantime.
Anyway, I think your reasoning is clear, vote: dylan32, someone else needs a push to get in this game. DatSwan's also quiet, but bigger wagons are better.
Oh, and there ARE meaningful cases on me: Debatepro's, ari's and even shraeye's if you look closer, so it's not "for no reason".Thinks my case is meaningful, if you look closer.
Oh, and there ARE meaningful cases on me: Debatepro's, ari's and even shraeye's if you look closer, so it's not "for no reason".he says my case is meaningful, if you look closer. raerae points out that he still hasn't heard a reason. His response is that there is a reason, he just doesn't know it (even though he looked closer?)
I assumed I had slipped *something* and shraeye had picked it up,So now my reason is that he scumslipped and I picked up on it. Don't worry, despite his slip (he still isn't sure what it is) it will be DESTROYED BECAUSE MIX IS SO TOWNNN!!! (<----that's sarcasm)
...
I'm willing to destroy whatever slip he thinks I did and why that's part of my town meta, but he hasn't actually said what it is yet...
Afterwards, ss said "challenging votes is pro-town", so I started doing it more.This also sits weirdly. SS said town should do this, so I am doing this. Much town. See me be town.
AgreeIt is towny for faust to go against his meta and raise eyebrows, and scum!faust knows this which is why he is likely to emulate it. At only one level of meta you're not likely to obtain significant information that distinguishes between scum!faust and town!faust
Am I then forced to acknowledge this faust as null? vote: Dylan, while you have time to answer me this:
Not necessarily, going after faust might not be bad, even if you're unlikely to find anything substantial.
There is also his defense he provided for ss which struck me as not caring about scum-hunting.I don't think this constitutes defending. Everybody is accountable to everyone else to provide good reasoning. Anyone is free and encouraged to probe when something looks wrong. This helps us avoid tunneling in incorrectly.Notice how he said he's not SURE anyone is scummy, not that there are no scums nor that he doesn't have a hunch that specific people are being scummy.There's a lot of discussion but I'm not sure anyone is scummy. No good cases so far.You have no scumreads whatsoever? I find that bizarre, surely you are suspicious of someone.
I am, however, pretty sure that Debatepro is town, and arishipshape probably too. That's something.
The points for pro-town MiX are interesting though, his posting often and regularly will be taken into account, (and my vote will stay on AIRship for the time being)
So that's all super cute and clean, shraeye, but why did you actually vote for him in the first place? You've conveniently left that out of your "case."That's back in #230, you're letting your narrative shape your reading.
So that's all super cute and clean, shraeye, but why did you actually vote for him in the first place? You've conveniently left that out of your "case."That's back in #230, you're letting your narrative shape your reading.
vote: arishipshape. Cluttering the thread.Is this a policy vote or do you think that ari (is that an acceptable nickname?) is scum for it?
I suddenly have a question. @faust, are you Town-Aligned?Yes.
Philosophical rambling was good at the start of the game, but now it's getting scummy. vote: faust for doing it too muchWhat about it makes you think it is something I would do as scum?
faust, I think I recall that you have previously asked this question at the beginning of games. Is that correct, and if yes, is the reason that you didn't this time that you were in a mafia QT with both new players and therefore already know?I am not one who asks this every time, usually I just use they until I hear something else. But I may have asked some time. Second question: No.
And remember that lying is a sin.
Vote: MiXFor pressure I assume. And to ask this question. Which in turn makes me want to ask. why us?
Why? I'll give Joseph, faust, and UncleEurope each 1 guess.
Given that the pool size is definitely not three new players, the odds are even lower.What does this mean?
MiX (5): Debatepro, arishipshape, shraeye, faust, Uncleeurope
There's a lot of discussion but I'm not sure anyone is scummy. No good cases so far."I have no scumreads but I'm going to townread some newbies."
I am, however, pretty sure that Debatepro is town, and arishipshape probably too. That's something.
faust was sheeping shraeye's vote untill now...feels like the best time to abandon it, now that shraeye's reasoning is being questioned, but jumping to raerae makes him very scummy.I voted you to get some reactions going. I think it worked. You have a style that goes against the meta here and makes it easy to paint you as scummy, I wanted to see what would happen if scum thought they might get a lynch through on you.
Not sure scum!faust would do such a blatant dodge, nevertheless, vote: faust, Dylan's STILL not here and my vote won't change it, will it.
raerae sounds like classic town!raerae, though I think I remember her being able to do that regardless of alignment.Can you specify how raerae sounds like classic town!raerae? I think I never got to be in a game with her so far, or maybe one short one only.
I got a fleeting scum vibe re: MiX. Sitting on it for now. Not worth jumping on the wagon.
vote: Dylan for pressure.
Tell me Faust, why should I not vote: faust?Because I am town.
There's a lot of discussion but I'm not sure anyone is scummy. No good cases so far."I have no scumreads but I'm going to townread some newbies."
I am, however, pretty sure that Debatepro is town, and arishipshape probably too. That's something.
- every scum ever.
This is directed at faust. ----- Are you just doing a bit with the quotes or do you have a role restriction regarding what you can post? If I am correct you would not be able to answer with a "yes or no"... so how about this for now:This is so convoluted that it is a bit scummy. I would think that scum finds my behaviour more puzzling; they know I'm not doing it because I'm scum, so they try to make some sense of it otherwise.
Not particularly? I mean ari is pretty null at this point. Debatepro has a kind of typical newb!town paranoia about their posts.There's a lot of discussion but I'm not sure anyone is scummy. No good cases so far."I have no scumreads but I'm going to townread some newbies."
I am, however, pretty sure that Debatepro is town, and arishipshape probably too. That's something.
- every scum ever.
do you disagree with the reads?
If they ask at night in the scum QT or at any time during the day in their private QT, scum players may ask me to create the PM I'd have sent them if they had some hypothetical role. If they exactly name a role a town member has, I promise they will recieve the same rules text as that town role. If they exactly name a flavor name and role name, I'll just give them your PM outright (with player name removed). I'll err on the side of giving scum more information over allowing them to be outed by flavor. This may provide scum with additional information if they are clever and you do a lot of claiming or soft claiming. You have been warned. Flavor claiming will only help scum.
faust was sheeping shraeye's vote untill now...feels like the best time to abandon it, now that shraeye's reasoning is being questioned, but jumping to raerae makes him very scummy.I voted you to get some reactions going. I think it worked. You have a style that goes against the meta here and makes it easy to paint you as scummy, I wanted to see what would happen if scum thought they might get a lynch through on you.
Not sure scum!faust would do such a blatant dodge, nevertheless, vote: faust, Dylan's STILL not here and my vote won't change it, will it.
Then raerae was being scummy and seemed like a better place for my vote. Note that raerae's scummy behaviour was in part triggered by the wagon on you, so my vote did its job.
If I had additional thoughts to share about MiX, I would have.faust was sheeping shraeye's vote untill now...feels like the best time to abandon it, now that shraeye's reasoning is being questioned, but jumping to raerae makes him very scummy.I voted you to get some reactions going. I think it worked. You have a style that goes against the meta here and makes it easy to paint you as scummy, I wanted to see what would happen if scum thought they might get a lynch through on you.
Not sure scum!faust would do such a blatant dodge, nevertheless, vote: faust, Dylan's STILL not here and my vote won't change it, will it.
Then raerae was being scummy and seemed like a better place for my vote. Note that raerae's scummy behaviour was in part triggered by the wagon on you, so my vote did its job.
This is a bit of a cop-out, because it doesn't answer what you think about MiX.
Oh, and there ARE meaningful cases on me: Debatepro's, ari's and even shraeye's if you look closer, so it's not "for no reason".
Her style is to energetically question anything that is a bit off.raerae sounds like classic town!raerae, though I think I remember her being able to do that regardless of alignment.Can you specify how raerae sounds like classic town!raerae? I think I never got to be in a game with her so far, or maybe one short one only.
I got a fleeting scum vibe re: MiX. Sitting on it for now. Not worth jumping on the wagon.
vote: Dylan for pressure.
Also, how good are pressure votes if you announce that they are for pressure?
The only problem I see with the flavor claim is that now scum can avoid that one name. If they guess his role, they could also get faust's PM. I don't advocate anyone else flavor claiming, though. Later I want to double check if they get safeclaims. On phone rn.
I reread the game so far and I find that I agree with what has been said about MiX being scummy.
Developed some town reads, which is always helpful.
Holding off voting since it's so early, but once we have a rough consensus the day starts to feel over regardless.
PPE: silver
So here is why my vote went onto MiX. Two reasons, both small.
First; calling out some people but not others.I completely missed Uncleeurope...odd, maybe it's because I've actually seen him play.
I like wagons too, just not the current ones, those guys are my top townreads!
...I STILL want something from shraeye, his wife already talked, why can't he?
At this point Dylan had not posted. The fact that he wants input from others so emphatically (but not from all) is incongruous.
Second; he is very worried about votes on him while claiming not to beTo be honest, I disregard the first vote on me, especially one right from the start of the game.
Here he scumreads someone for voting on him. Devil-may-care + OMGUS = more incongruous.Oh, thank you LaLight, was that for me? Regardless, FoS: LaLight, seems opportunist, maybe it's just the OMGUS talking, but still.
Vote: MiXFor pressure I assume. And to ask this question. Which in turn makes me want to ask. why us?
Why? I'll give Joseph, faust, and UncleEurope each 1 guess.
Given that the pool size is definitely not three new players, the odds are even lower.What does this mean?
It’s Saturday, I’ve been drinking, and I’m literally the only FNG in the game.
Re: 6 or 7 people with shade... it seems to me like flailing with back to back posts include putting the spotlight on roughly half the other players in the game.
Re: why tunneling mix and ari... this is my first game, mix and ari makeup the bulk of the early posts and questions being asked and sequencing of votes and conversations with the two of you seem suspect.
Plus I like playing against a gambit and it seems like constant posting from an experienced player early could be scummy.
Oh "the most scummiest thing I have ever read in all of the mafia games I've ever played" is just this one...funny. Was that intentional?
@shraeye: So you picked out three people and not others to signal your reason for voting MiX?No, picking those people didn't signal my reasons.
@MiX: what did you think you had realized by looking closer?Oh, and there ARE meaningful cases on me: Debatepro's, ari's and even shraeye's if you look closer, so it's not "for no reason".
Re: why tunneling mix and ari... this is my first game, mix and ari makeup the bulk of the early posts and questions being asked and sequencing of votes and conversations with the two of you seem suspect.
I have a lot to say to Debatepro compared to everyone else, odd.Re: why tunneling mix and ari... this is my first game, mix and ari makeup the bulk of the early posts and questions being asked and sequencing of votes and conversations with the two of you seem suspect.
Now that the game has progressed, what do you think of literally anyone else? Anything about any other player besides us 3 is welcome.
And to be more specific, what do you think of dylan's - now mail-mi's - wagon?
@Debatepro, you've never played before, right? How much have you researched? Did you read any games, maybe some theory in mafiascumwiki...what is your knowledge about Mafia as a whole and where did you get it from?
Who is eddie?
Makes sense. I turned off signatures so I didn't see it.Quote from: EFHWWho is eddie?
In Uncleeurope's signature = Eddie. Faust also refers to them as Eddie in #258. I assumed it was a known nickname.
3) raerae (no shuffle ID, so IDK, but they have decent content): All in all just too damn paranoid for me to consider as a lynch rn. I am a pretty strong town read on them as of current.. they check all the correct boxes. 1) Frustrated with their wagon (not skummy, no matter what people have said), 2) faust pissing them off (townX1000), 3) They continue to attempt to open new venues of conversation, which is the easiest form of skum hunting in early days to avoid... so skum tends to you know... avoid it.
- Start of game has mostly to do with twin claim wars. To be expected. As I somewhat recently joined FDS from a twinclaim referral I can go ahead and say that gunning for your friend is essentially NAI... so if you are married it is probably just outright expected to happen (that was a joke, it is nice to play with both of you!)
- That being said... #138 is just downright incorrect. This is a form of RMM - if we bring every player to L-1 on Day 1, then on Day 1 every player will essentially have to claim. That is an exaggerated example (I am not promoting a mass claim by any means).. I am just saying that to wagon up players, under the correct circumstances, during early phases of this set up... def does NOT just "tell us nothing". If anything it is a stronger argument for the RVS stage of the game.
3) raerae (no shuffle ID, so IDK, but they have decent content): All in all just too damn paranoid for me to consider as a lynch rn. I am a pretty strong town read on them as of current.. they check all the correct boxes. 1) Frustrated with their wagon (not skummy, no matter what people have said), 2) faust pissing them off (townX1000), 3) They continue to attempt to open new venues of conversation, which is the easiest form of skum hunting in early days to avoid... so skum tends to you know... avoid it.
- Start of game has mostly to do with twin claim wars. To be expected. As I somewhat recently joined FDS from a twinclaim referral I can go ahead and say that gunning for your friend is essentially NAI... so if you are married it is probably just outright expected to happen (that was a joke, it is nice to play with both of you!)
- That being said... #138 is just downright incorrect. This is a form of RMM - if we bring every player to L-1 on Day 1, then on Day 1 every player will essentially have to claim. That is an exaggerated example (I am not promoting a mass claim by any means).. I am just saying that to wagon up players, under the correct circumstances, during early phases of this set up... def does NOT just "tell us nothing". If anything it is a stronger argument for the RVS stage of the game.
Dude, are you sure you were rereading me? I guess I appreciate that you've found me town but your reasoning is flawed so I'm concerned your "townread" on me is more of a buddy than an actual read.
1)I'm not frustrated with the "wagon" on me (one vote, hardly more than RVS I think?), I was frustrated the MiX wagon spun up so quick and stuck so long but that's been my only frustration so far.
2)Faust is most certainly not pissing me off, he voted for me and I asked why, I promise you I have much more colorful words reserved for when I'm pissed.
3)I'll give you this one.
-Start of the game didn't "mostly" have to do with a twinclaim, I had a PS on a post informing people, that's about it. Then I started raising a fuss about the MiX wagon and trying to get additional conversation going.
-Post #138 wasn't even mine. Regardless, I disagree with you. This isn't RMM in the slightest, it's normal as stated in the set-up, we're guaranteed at least 5 VTs and minimum 1 Goon so with 13 playing we're only looking at a maximum of 7 roles. Beyond that, claiming early game only benefits scum, just because you're on L-1 DOES NOT mean you should claim so you saying we'd all have to mass claim if we all RVS'd each other to L-1 is just wackadoo. Beyond that, I've never been a huge fan of RVS but I get it, conversation has to start somewhere but there is no reason, that I can see, to let it get within lynching range so damn early because it just allows scum opportunity for a quickhammer.
3) raerae (no shuffle ID, so IDK, but they have decent content): All in all just too damn paranoid for me to consider as a lynch rn. I am a pretty strong town read on them as of current.. they check all the correct boxes. 1) Frustrated with their wagon (not skummy, no matter what people have said), 2) faust pissing them off (townX1000), 3) They continue to attempt to open new venues of conversation, which is the easiest form of skum hunting in early days to avoid... so skum tends to you know... avoid it.
- Start of game has mostly to do with twin claim wars. To be expected. As I somewhat recently joined FDS from a twinclaim referral I can go ahead and say that gunning for your friend is essentially NAI... so if you are married it is probably just outright expected to happen (that was a joke, it is nice to play with both of you!)
- That being said... #138 is just downright incorrect. This is a form of RMM - if we bring every player to L-1 on Day 1, then on Day 1 every player will essentially have to claim. That is an exaggerated example (I am not promoting a mass claim by any means).. I am just saying that to wagon up players, under the correct circumstances, during early phases of this set up... def does NOT just "tell us nothing". If anything it is a stronger argument for the RVS stage of the game.
Dude, are you sure you were rereading me? I guess I appreciate that you've found me town but your reasoning is flawed so I'm concerned your "townread" on me is more of a buddy than an actual read.
1)I'm not frustrated with the "wagon" on me (one vote, hardly more than RVS I think?), I was frustrated the MiX wagon spun up so quick and stuck so long but that's been my only frustration so far.
2)Faust is most certainly not pissing me off, he voted for me and I asked why, I promise you I have much more colorful words reserved for when I'm pissed.
3)I'll give you this one.
-Start of the game didn't "mostly" have to do with a twinclaim, I had a PS on a post informing people, that's about it. Then I started raising a fuss about the MiX wagon and trying to get additional conversation going.
-Post #138 wasn't even mine. Regardless, I disagree with you. This isn't RMM in the slightest, it's normal as stated in the set-up, we're guaranteed at least 5 VTs and minimum 1 Goon so with 13 playing we're only looking at a maximum of 7 roles. Beyond that, claiming early game only benefits scum, just because you're on L-1 DOES NOT mean you should claim so you saying we'd all have to mass claim if we all RVS'd each other to L-1 is just wackadoo. Beyond that, I've never been a huge fan of RVS but I get it, conversation has to start somewhere but there is no reason, that I can see, to let it get within lynching range so damn early because it just allows scum opportunity for a quickhammer.
Scum quickhammering is a good thing. It’s basically a free scum lynch.
But votes don't mean anything if there isn't discussion behind them. We can push four people to L-1 but if it's just a bunch of people sheeping crappy cases that doesn't tell us anything.
Scum quickhammering is a good thing. It’s basically a free scum lynch.
But with no conversation you can't KNOW the quickhammerer is scum!But votes don't mean anything if there isn't discussion behind them. We can push four people to L-1 but if it's just a bunch of people sheeping crappy cases that doesn't tell us anything.
Are you really saying that a quickhammered sheeped mislynch is actually beneficial to town? Because when you said I was "downright incorrect" above is the post you were referencing.
QuoteMakes sense. I turned off signatures so I didn't see it.Quote from: EFHWWho is eddie?
In Uncleeurope's signature = Eddie. Faust also refers to them as Eddie in #258. I assumed it was a known nickname.
This post reads as if it should really end in a vote for DatSwan. It doesn't, and that makes it scummy. There is little point in dismantling someone else's townread on you unless you think they are scum and you can show it this way.3) raerae (no shuffle ID, so IDK, but they have decent content): All in all just too damn paranoid for me to consider as a lynch rn. I am a pretty strong town read on them as of current.. they check all the correct boxes. 1) Frustrated with their wagon (not skummy, no matter what people have said), 2) faust pissing them off (townX1000), 3) They continue to attempt to open new venues of conversation, which is the easiest form of skum hunting in early days to avoid... so skum tends to you know... avoid it.
- Start of game has mostly to do with twin claim wars. To be expected. As I somewhat recently joined FDS from a twinclaim referral I can go ahead and say that gunning for your friend is essentially NAI... so if you are married it is probably just outright expected to happen (that was a joke, it is nice to play with both of you!)
- That being said... #138 is just downright incorrect. This is a form of RMM - if we bring every player to L-1 on Day 1, then on Day 1 every player will essentially have to claim. That is an exaggerated example (I am not promoting a mass claim by any means).. I am just saying that to wagon up players, under the correct circumstances, during early phases of this set up... def does NOT just "tell us nothing". If anything it is a stronger argument for the RVS stage of the game.
Dude, are you sure you were rereading me? I guess I appreciate that you've found me town but your reasoning is flawed so I'm concerned your "townread" on me is more of a buddy than an actual read.
1)I'm not frustrated with the "wagon" on me (one vote, hardly more than RVS I think?), I was frustrated the MiX wagon spun up so quick and stuck so long but that's been my only frustration so far.
2)Faust is most certainly not pissing me off, he voted for me and I asked why, I promise you I have much more colorful words reserved for when I'm pissed.
3)I'll give you this one.
-Start of the game didn't "mostly" have to do with a twinclaim, I had a PS on a post informing people, that's about it. Then I started raising a fuss about the MiX wagon and trying to get additional conversation going.
-Post #138 wasn't even mine. Regardless, I disagree with you. This isn't RMM in the slightest, it's normal as stated in the set-up, we're guaranteed at least 5 VTs and minimum 1 Goon so with 13 playing we're only looking at a maximum of 7 roles. Beyond that, claiming early game only benefits scum, just because you're on L-1 DOES NOT mean you should claim so you saying we'd all have to mass claim if we all RVS'd each other to L-1 is just wackadoo. Beyond that, I've never been a huge fan of RVS but I get it, conversation has to start somewhere but there is no reason, that I can see, to let it get within lynching range so damn early because it just allows scum opportunity for a quickhammer.
It is a disservice to this community to even insinuate that somebody would lie about an unexpected IRL event.
Now that the game has progressed, what do you think of literally anyone else? Anything about any other player besides us 3 is welcome.
- EFHW: first post was hilarious. In #266 she reads you as scummy. Could be i am searching for confirmation of my bias/opinion.
- Faust: first posts quoting Nietzsche was funny and it blew my newb mind when datswan hypothesized that it could be a role based restriction, which i had no idea could exist in the known universe.
- I don't understand the any of the justifications for voting for or by raerae or shraeye.
- Shraeye: I took comment about giving Joseph, faust, and eddie one guess as some kind of shared history/joke that I am not part of.
- Lalight: i didn't understand the SS scumslip! assertion but i had a slightly scummy vibe from SS which could also be confirmation bias.
- Joseph's post count summary was helpful, which i appreciated.
- Eddie's posts about you and ari reaffirmed my initial admittedly novice read.
- Datswans summary analysis post was awesome, thought i should borrow that technique sometime. Also hints at somewhat scummy read on you.
- Faust in #252 seems to suggest SS town read is scummy, which is how i took it.
- Mail-mi/Dylan - No opinion
Oh "the most scummiest thing I have ever read in all of the mafia games I've ever played" is just this one...funny. Was that intentional?
If you are town, your wasting dialog time with me, because there are clearly better players you need to convince you are not scum. If you are scum and you are wasting your time with me, then I find it a brilliant strategy to project yourself as a newb player. Sticking with my reads for now.
What else is there...no idea how to interpret raerae's posts, Uncle's absolutely right that no scum would
My god, why is there a shortcut for posting?What else is there...no idea how to interpret raerae's posts, Uncle's absolutely right that no scum would
would quickhammer that early in D1, they would be lynched immediatly in the following day.
This list is good, very good indeed, just one question left...Oh "the most scummiest thing I have ever read in all of the mafia games I've ever played" is just this one...funny. Was that intentional?
Quote from: DebateproIf you are town, your wasting dialog time with me, because there are clearly better players you need to convince you are not scum. If you are scum and you are wasting your time with me, then I find it a brilliant strategy to project yourself as a newb player. Sticking with my reads for now.Here I didn't want to destroy your scum read on me, since I think that's not possible (I tried and I just got confused with your answers) so instead I'm trying to destroy my scum read on you.
So far your answers have been towny, but there's one question left!
What else is there...no idea how to interpret raerae's posts, Uncle's absolutely right that no scum would quickhammer that early in D1, they would be lynched immediately in the following day.
people just backed off because your vote total got too high too early.This is incorrect.
What is Teproc doing in this game?!
Oh it's ariship. You adopted the image of another mafia player there. I guess there's no rule against that, but it will probably be fairly confusing to other vets, especially if Teproc comes back. On the other hand, he hasn't been around in a while, so maybe it's fine.
PPE means pre-post edit. If you write a post, but while you are writing someone else submitted one, you get a notification and have to reconfirm that you want to post it. If you don't want to read the new posts before submitting, you can denote this by writing PPE X where X is the number of new posts.
Greetings! It is now the weekdays, and I shall be quite active once more! I believe there is a gold mine of information in the past 3 pages, but there isn't enough context for me to make conclusive votes yet. The last couple pages will be invaluable as the game progresses. Regardless, FOS MiX and Faust. MiX because I get a scummy feel and because of that early buddying at the start. I suspect that early buddying was due to the fact that I was thought of as a noob, and a quick attempt to get me on his side, keeping him alive with my vote. Faust because he said almost nothing for like 2 irl days, and I think depriving the town of information, even if he starts supplying info now, is kinda scummy. But take this with a grain of salt for 2 reasons: I'm not really sure about either, and TBH I suck at scumhunting. In addition, I don't know the meta. Regardless, my opinion stands. Thoughts?faust is usually an advocate for doing lots D1 (partly because they often get night killed N1)
What does PPE mean?
My god, why is there a shortcut for posting?That is the only part of raerae's post that felt off to me. Kind of intellectualized fake town. I didn't expect a Datswan vote at the end, and her descriptions of her posts matched my impressions better than Datswan's did.What else is there...no idea how to interpret raerae's posts, Uncle's absolutely right that no scum would
would quickhammer that early in D1, they would be lynched immediatly in the following day.
But also correct. It's not why you voted elsewhere, but is why I didn't vote.people just backed off because your vote total got too high too early.This is incorrect.
Well you can vote now.But also correct. It's not why you voted elsewhere, but is why I didn't vote.people just backed off because your vote total got too high too early.This is incorrect.
This post reads as if it should really end in a vote for DatSwan. It doesn't, and that makes it scummy. There is little point in dismantling someone else's townread on you unless you think they are scum and you can show it this way.
Rae - thoughts on anyone but yourself?
I realized I hadn't responded to this. I'm not in any hurry. Just sharing something I've noticed because I'm not interested in extending the day "just because". I'm experimenting with not sharing townreads right off, so yeah, I guess I was trying to say "Hi, I'm playing too." I didn't back down from anything, so I'm confused why you mention that I did and then take it back. My initial impression of consensus was dispelled by the subsequent posts, so I shared that. It feels like you are looking for ways to read me as scummy.I reread the game so far and I find that I agree with what has been said about MiX being scummy.
Developed some town reads, which is always helpful.
Holding off voting since it's so early, but once we have a rough consensus the day starts to feel over regardless.
PPE: silver
This seems weird to me, already eager to end the day and move on? Calm down and enjoy the show. And I realize this was corrected by you not reading all the posts, but still, this mentality seems dangerous to me.
Plus the entirety of your posts have been very scarce with you only coming in to agree with a consensus, say you have town reads without any risk involved in the claim (because it was left as the quite simplistic: "Yo, I have town reads, fools." Like, what is the purpose of saying this to us other than to be like "I'm playing the game too, guys!"), then backed down from the consensus once it wasn't a consensus. (Well, maybe not backed down, but still.)
And since my current vote isn't generating any discussion I may as well Vote: AFEW
(Vote: EFHW <-Just in case)
You're right, but now I want to look it over again.Well you can vote now.But also correct. It's not why you voted elsewhere, but is why I didn't vote.people just backed off because your vote total got too high too early.This is incorrect.
I reread the game so far and I find that I agree with what has been said about MiX being scummy.
Developed some town reads, which is always helpful.
Holding off voting since it's so early, but once we have a rough consensus the day starts to feel over regardless.
PPE: silver
I realized I hadn't responded to this. I'm not in any hurry. Just sharing something I've noticed because I'm not interested in extending the day "just because". I'm experimenting with not sharing townreads right off, so yeah, I guess I was trying to say "Hi, I'm playing too." I didn't back down from anything, so I'm confused why you mention that I did and then take it back. My initial impression of consensus was dispelled by the subsequent posts, so I shared that. It feels like you are looking for ways to read me as scummy.I reread the game so far and I find that I agree with what has been said about MiX being scummy.
Developed some town reads, which is always helpful.
Holding off voting since it's so early, but once we have a rough consensus the day starts to feel over regardless.
PPE: silver
This seems weird to me, already eager to end the day and move on? Calm down and enjoy the show. And I realize this was corrected by you not reading all the posts, but still, this mentality seems dangerous to me.
Plus the entirety of your posts have been very scarce with you only coming in to agree with a consensus, say you have town reads without any risk involved in the claim (because it was left as the quite simplistic: "Yo, I have town reads, fools." Like, what is the purpose of saying this to us other than to be like "I'm playing the game too, guys!"), then backed down from the consensus once it wasn't a consensus. (Well, maybe not backed down, but still.)
And since my current vote isn't generating any discussion I may as well Vote: AFEW
(Vote: EFHW <-Just in case)
Seeing your answer to Uncle's vote made me reread this:About you being scummy. But then other people spoke for the opposite perspective and the illusion of consensus was gone.I reread the game so far and I find that I agree with what has been said about MiX being scummy.
Developed some town reads, which is always helpful.
Holding off voting since it's so early, but once we have a rough consensus the day starts to feel over regardless.
PPE: silver
This rubs me the wrong way, EFHW: why did you think there was a consensus? And about who/what, if that's not too much information to divulge.
If it's not too much to ask, what do you think of raerae/shraeye? Oh and Debatepro.
Yes, I am looking at ways to read people as scummy.
Seeing your answer to Uncle's vote made me reread this:About you being scummy. But then other people spoke for the opposite perspective and the illusion of consensus was gone.I reread the game so far and I find that I agree with what has been said about MiX being scummy.
Developed some town reads, which is always helpful.
Holding off voting since it's so early, but once we have a rough consensus the day starts to feel over regardless.
PPE: silver
This rubs me the wrong way, EFHW: why did you think there was a consensus? And about who/what, if that's not too much information to divulge.
Yes, I am looking at ways to read people as scummy.
So you can provide good cases against your mislynches? Man it's easy to say this about you :P
I strongly agree with everything else you say in that post.Seeing your answer to Uncle's vote made me reread this:About you being scummy. But then other people spoke for the opposite perspective and the illusion of consensus was gone.I reread the game so far and I find that I agree with what has been said about MiX being scummy.
Developed some town reads, which is always helpful.
Holding off voting since it's so early, but once we have a rough consensus the day starts to feel over regardless.
PPE: silver
This rubs me the wrong way, EFHW: why did you think there was a consensus? And about who/what, if that's not too much information to divulge.
That's exactly the answer I was looking for: good, you didn't come up with a lie.
Speaking of which, pulling out the “it was all a test” maneuver? A classic play.
I suppose I should share my reads:Does this imply that you think my FoS on Faust is wrong? Obviously you will think my FoS on you is wrong, but I want to hear more from you on Faust. You seem very neutral in your read. "Faust is null, Faust is towny but could be scummy" doesn't cut it for me. Are you truly neutral on Faust? Where do you lean?
faust's null, his early votes are good and his questions are towny, but he could very well do all that as scum, still, it's pro-town, so I hope he continues it.
arishipshape's still towny and will forever be towny untill he does a very big scumslip, for recent evidence of his townyness I present his FoS on me and faust, which is precisely what I would expect from noob!town.
Vote Count 1.5First off, haha very funny. Next and more importantly, who is this Teproc? How did he play? What is his reputation? And please consider me an entirely separate entity from him.
MiX (2): Debatepro, shraeye
silverspawn (2): Joseph2302, LaLight
raerae (2): faust, silverspawn
shraeye (2): raerae, MiX
mail-mi (1): DatSwan
EFHW (1): Uncleeurope
Not Voting (3): mail-mi, arishipshape, EFHW
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 ends February 01, 2019, 05:00:00 pm
Airshipshape has replaced Teproc
arishpshape posts EXACTLY how I would post my first post in my first game, therefore he is town; regardless, I do believe giving newbies a D1 pass has become customary: by those I clearly mean myself, arishpshape and Debatepro.
Love silverspawn's response, disagree with the votes as I've said.
I've read some recent games, in those, I don't think I've seen shraeye nor raerae, so I consider them my biggest threats.
In that case, vote: shraeye , you look like a better person to get reactions from, for no reason whatsoever.
Now, knowing the meaning, I approached it as a normal case, the case being whatever the initial reason was, which for me meant a minor slip (like me buddying or maybe just the way I worded things, I didn't know what, but I knew that town!shraeye and scum!shraeye would have some backing to that vote), so I mentioned it when stating cases on me; didn't want to leave out any information, that would just be scummy for no reason, more info is good.
seems to disagree with my game play and that makes me scummy in his eyesI strongly dislike this attempt to invalidate my read on raerae.
MiX - so active but the shraeye interactions early on are suspect, he's gone back and forth a lot, weird interactions w/uncle too (ex: quotes uncle in post #80, in #99 says "totally missed uncle"), weird reads list (way too many town) fake votes DatSwan, then finalizes a shraeye vote for reasons no more serious than his single other scumread (datswan)Is going back and forth scummy? Why does he have too many town reads? He gives 3 scum reads, how many scum do you think there are?
Sorry, in my case against shraeye I stumbled on this (bolding is mine) and it's enough for me to change to vote: MiX, still REALLY don't like shraeye but this is just too obvious. First he says he's never seen shraeye, then he says he knows what both town! and scum!shraeye would do, he obviously knew this wasn't just and RVS vote. The only way to know that information is to have studied him previously OR discussed it with him in a QT. That, combined with all his weird defending of shraeye's vote/case on him (posts #119, #132, #147, #161, and finally in #204), his most recent vote for shraeye, and his weird buddying (yes, it's still happening) w/ari, make me comfortable with this vote.I don't get this. The second post isn't actually about anything that town!shraeye or scum!shraeye would do, but rather on how the rest of people in this game would react.arishpshape posts EXACTLY how I would post my first post in my first game, therefore he is town; regardless, I do believe giving newbies a D1 pass has become customary: by those I clearly mean myself, arishpshape and Debatepro.
Love silverspawn's response, disagree with the votes as I've said.
I've read some recent games, in those, I don't think I've seen shraeye nor raerae, so I consider them my biggest threats.
In that case, vote: shraeye , you look like a better person to get reactions from, for no reason whatsoever.Now, knowing the meaning, I approached it as a normal case, the case being whatever the initial reason was, which for me meant a minor slip (like me buddying or maybe just the way I worded things, I didn't know what, but I knew that town!shraeye and scum!shraeye would have some backing to that vote), so I mentioned it when stating cases on me; didn't want to leave out any information, that would just be scummy for no reason, more info is good.
Airshipshape has replaced TeprocMuch appreciated :)
well, we have 4 relative newbies, two returned vets, that's quite a playerlist I would sayAm I being counted as a returned vet?
Because I'm so sporadically here
Ah, no, I understand now. I disagree still. Also the only way this makes MiX look scummy is if shraeye is his partner, so it would still be better to be voting for shraeye.Sorry, in my case against shraeye I stumbled on this (bolding is mine) and it's enough for me to change to vote: MiX, still REALLY don't like shraeye but this is just too obvious. First he says he's never seen shraeye, then he says he knows what both town! and scum!shraeye would do, he obviously knew this wasn't just and RVS vote. The only way to know that information is to have studied him previously OR discussed it with him in a QT. That, combined with all his weird defending of shraeye's vote/case on him (posts #119, #132, #147, #161, and finally in #204), his most recent vote for shraeye, and his weird buddying (yes, it's still happening) w/ari, make me comfortable with this vote.I don't get this. The second post isn't actually about anything that town!shraeye or scum!shraeye would do, but rather on how the rest of people in this game would react.arishpshape posts EXACTLY how I would post my first post in my first game, therefore he is town; regardless, I do believe giving newbies a D1 pass has become customary: by those I clearly mean myself, arishpshape and Debatepro.
Love silverspawn's response, disagree with the votes as I've said.
I've read some recent games, in those, I don't think I've seen shraeye nor raerae, so I consider them my biggest threats.
In that case, vote: shraeye , you look like a better person to get reactions from, for no reason whatsoever.Now, knowing the meaning, I approached it as a normal case, the case being whatever the initial reason was, which for me meant a minor slip (like me buddying or maybe just the way I worded things, I didn't know what, but I knew that town!shraeye and scum!shraeye would have some backing to that vote), so I mentioned it when stating cases on me; didn't want to leave out any information, that would just be scummy for no reason, more info is good.
hm I just counted and I am missing one (airship). will re read that now.
i think at least one of silver/faust is scum, I've read nothing to move my vote from raerae, still think it's a good chance to catch scum there, DS sounds too inattentive which is weird for him
Third off, it's arishipshape not airshipshaoe ;-)I suppose I should share my reads:Does this imply that you think my FoS on Faust is wrong? Obviously you will think my FoS on you is wrong, but I want to hear more from you on Faust. You seem very neutral in your read. "Faust is null, Faust is towny but could be scummy" doesn't cut it for me. Are you truly neutral on Faust? Where do you lean?
faust's null, his early votes are good and his questions are towny, but he could very well do all that as scum, still, it's pro-town, so I hope he continues it.
arishipshape's still towny and will forever be towny untill he does a very big scumslip, for recent evidence of his townyness I present his FoS on me and faust, which is precisely what I would expect from noob!town.Vote Count 1.5First off, haha very funny. Next and more importantly, who is this Teproc? How did he play? What is his reputation? And please consider me an entirely separate entity from him.
MiX (2): Debatepro, shraeye
silverspawn (2): Joseph2302, LaLight
raerae (2): faust, silverspawn
shraeye (2): raerae, MiX
mail-mi (1): DatSwan
EFHW (1): Uncleeurope
Not Voting (3): mail-mi, arishipshape, EFHW
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 ends February 01, 2019, 05:00:00 pm
Airshipshape has replaced Teproc
wow it's so hard when I don't know meta of half of the playerlistEasy way to get lots of information out
also why does everyone do read lists?
Joseph's null, but I want him to answer this:Leaning towards scummy for raerae, and a bit for shraeye too (although I don't currently think they're both scum together based on interactions)If it's not too much to ask, what do you think of raerae/shraeye? Oh and Debatepro.
Just in case he missed it.
Sorry, in my case against shraeye I stumbled on this (bolding is mine) and it's enough for me to change to vote: MiX, still REALLY don't like shraeye but this is just too obvious. First he says he's never seen shraeye, then he says he knows what both town! and scum!shraeye would do, he obviously knew this wasn't just and RVS vote. The only way to know that information is to have studied him previously OR discussed it with him in a QT. That, combined with all his weird defending of shraeye's vote/case on him (posts #119, #132, #147, #161, and finally in #204), his most recent vote for shraeye, and his weird buddying (yes, it's still happening) w/ari, make me comfortable with this vote.arishpshape posts EXACTLY how I would post my first post in my first game, therefore he is town; regardless, I do believe giving newbies a D1 pass has become customary: by those I clearly mean myself, arishpshape and Debatepro.
Love silverspawn's response, disagree with the votes as I've said.
I've read some recent games, in those, I don't think I've seen shraeye nor raerae, so I consider them my biggest threats.
In that case, vote: shraeye , you look like a better person to get reactions from, for no reason whatsoever.Now, knowing the meaning, I approached it as a normal case, the case being whatever the initial reason was, which for me meant a minor slip (like me buddying or maybe just the way I worded things, I didn't know what, but I knew that town!shraeye and scum!shraeye would have some backing to that vote), so I mentioned it when stating cases on me; didn't want to leave out any information, that would just be scummy for no reason, more info is good.
I suppose I should share my reads:Does this imply that you think my FoS on Faust is wrong? Obviously you will think my FoS on you is wrong, but I want to hear more from you on Faust. You seem very neutral in your read. "Faust is null, Faust is towny but could be scummy" doesn't cut it for me. Are you truly neutral on Faust? Where do you lean?
faust's null, his early votes are good and his questions are towny, but he could very well do all that as scum, still, it's pro-town, so I hope he continues it.
arishipshape's still towny and will forever be towny untill he does a very big scumslip, for recent evidence of his townyness I present his FoS on me and faust, which is precisely what I would expect from noob!town.
I know that is gonna come off as some weak ass reasoning to players that have not played with faust, but just go like read... any other game ever.. it will make sense.
Don't like how big the raerae wagon got, if she was scum she wouldn't leave shraeye's wagon since, as faust said, raerae's case on me implies shraeye's scummy, then there's
LaLight, can you say wht raerae's scummy? I've heard from others but not from you.
i think at least one of silver/faust is scumThat's random. Why?
i think at least one of silver/faust is scumThat's random. Why?
In what way would we interact differently if one of us was scum?i think at least one of silver/faust is scumThat's random. Why?
Because when I look at your interactions I don't see town/town.
That's a decent point actually. I also reread raerae's most recent game (M39, she was a scum D1 lynch) and I don't quite see the similarities. Shame.Don't like how big the raerae wagon got, if she was scum she wouldn't leave shraeye's wagon since, as faust said, raerae's case on me implies shraeye's scummy, then there's
there's WIFOM but still.
In what way would we interact differently if one of us was scum?i think at least one of silver/faust is scumThat's random. Why?
Because when I look at your interactions I don't see town/town.
In what way would we interact differently if one of us was scum?i think at least one of silver/faust is scumThat's random. Why?
Because when I look at your interactions I don't see town/town.
I think here you interact carefully with each other whilw if you both were town, you would be more engaged into conversation.
First off, haha very funny. Next and more importantly, who is this Teproc? How did he play? What is his reputation? And please consider me an entirely separate entity from him.
They might be trying to not get in an argument.In what way would we interact differently if one of us was scum?i think at least one of silver/faust is scumThat's random. Why?
Because when I look at your interactions I don't see town/town.
I think here you interact carefully with each other whilw if you both were town, you would be more engaged into conversation.
faust: ... LL came in and asked the money question ("faust - are you town aligned). So faust has no backdoor for being some third faction and fake claiming or whatever at this point... so super hard town lean on him as of now.
7) DebatePr0 (11): I have several reasons why I would prefer not to lynch Pro (acceptable nick name?) today.
10. arishipshape - weird buddy thing with MiX early game, jumps on the MiX wagon middle-ish, it's safe to assume that there were at least some scum on that wagon and in the middle is always a good place to find scumDude. First off, I renounced MiX as soon as he started buddying me.
arishpshape posts EXACTLY how I would post my first post in my first game, therefore he is town; regardless, I do believe giving newbies a D1 pass has become customary: by those I clearly mean myself, arishpshape and Debatepro.
Love silverspawn's response, disagree with the votes as I've said.
I've read some recent games, in those, I don't think I've seen shraeye nor raerae, so I consider them my biggest threats.
In that case, vote: shraeye , you look like a better person to get reactions from, for no reason whatsoever.
Please, though your logic comes to the correct conclusion that I am in fact town, it is completely flawed. First, the fact that I posted as you would post is completely irrelevant to my townhood. Second, if you are to spare me on the grounds that I am a "newbie", how am I to learn either strategy, nor the essence of the forum game known as mafia? If anyone here thinks I am worthy of lynching, spare me not. Regardless, any wagon on anyone besides me is beneficial to the town, from my perspective and knowledge. Therefore, vote: shraeye
You really post like me...I like your style! Besides, even without the newbie pass, I still consider you town, I believe scum would talk to their summates first, diminishing that "first post" feel when they do talk in public, at least for a new person.
I am blatantly buddying you aren't I? I should prepare myself for when you're scum...
My style is completely irrelevant to whether I am town. However, my "first post" feel actually does lend some credence to your reasoning. Keep in mind that I just unvoted you, and so you are likely to irrationally sympathize with me more than I might deserve. Whats buddying?
In addition, I started the MiX wagon!This be some bizarre buddying behavior from MiX followed by his conclusion that he should be prepared for his buddy to be scum, when buddying is a term that I would associate with something scum does.
Obviously this conclusively proves him to be scum.
Vote: MiX
I had no idea this game was so easy.
(http://www.slate.com/content/dam/slate/blogs/browbeat/2011/09/29/hugo_chavez_caption_contest/fallacyMan1.jpg.CROP.promo-large.jpg)
Buddying, while suspicious, is not conclusive evidence. The fact that I am new also shrouds his decisions regarding his play towards me with doubt. His conclusion of preparation for my scum (which will not occur) is merely reactionary to the fact that again, I am new and therefore entirely unpredictable. Buddying with me may be a good move, or an awful one. Considering the man you are buddying with to possibly be scum is merely good play. Expressing that might have not been the best move, but again, you claimed conclusive evidence. Of course, considering the fallacy fallacy, this doesn't prove you wrong. I actually lean towards agreeing with you. FOS MiX, but I keep my vote. For now, I go to die. Tomorrow, you will meet the new me!
Image was obnoxiously large, I've resized it for you—Your friendly power-mad mod
Anyways, this is my first post of my first game. All other games you may have thought I played were played be me in the past. Forget them, I am an entirely new person. Now, if I have things correctly, except for the innocent child who just got lynched, we have no information as of yet. Therefore, at least in live mafia games, we lynch someone immediately and at random, no? Of course, random is only subjective, and any experience had outside of this forum completely irrelevant. However, I regard it as the virtuous thing to do to ensure the highest chance for the not scum to win. Therefore, I shall conform to the tried and true methods utilized in other mafia games. Random bandwagon here we go!
Vote: MiX
If a random bandwagon is not the optimal strategy for town on day 1, explain to me why and I shall gladly retract my vote.
1. raerae is not a dude.10. arishipshape - weird buddy thing with MiX early game, jumps on the MiX wagon middle-ish, it's safe to assume that there were at least some scum on that wagon and in the middle is always a good place to find scumDude. First off, I renounced MiX as soon as he started buddying me.
1. Dude is a generic term for "what the heck". Ill just say "what the heck" next time.1. raerae is not a dude.10. arishipshape - weird buddy thing with MiX early game, jumps on the MiX wagon middle-ish, it's safe to assume that there were at least some scum on that wagon and in the middle is always a good place to find scumDude. First off, I renounced MiX as soon as he started buddying me.
2. Why so defensive?
I'm just saying this because I haven't spoken in a while. Anyways, here's my take of the situation. MiX gets my FOS because of the random buddying and the fact that he is quite chill with 5 votes on him. If I were in his position, I would be demanding explanations from each person voting on me. Perhaps that would be sub-optimal play, but I still think the complete lack of "what the heck guys" is a little objectionable.Yes, I know i'm not getting voted for, but any sort of accusation is dangerous.
I've been making a conscious effort to avoid emotional arguments with faust, which is probably what you're picking up. I don't think it says anything about his alignment.Can you specify where this has led you to act differently towards me than you would have otherwise?
Pointing at a RVS vote to explain you're the first on a wagon??? Why ari, why, that whole post is so scummy, oh my god, focus on scumhunting, not defensiveness, PLEASE.
You also say "writing gigantic diatribes is what I do" but your last 2 posts are...short.
Did you say what your scumreads are yet? Phone posting, don't wanna check
asking a lot of questions and doing nothing of actual scum hunting so far
How likely do you think it is that MiX and me are both scum, given the way we act towards you?Pointing at a RVS vote to explain you're the first on a wagon??? Why ari, why, that whole post is so scummy, oh my god, focus on scumhunting, not defensiveness, PLEASE.
You also say "writing gigantic diatribes is what I do" but your last 2 posts are...short.
Did you say what your scumreads are yet? Phone posting, don't wanna check
The RVS (stands for random, right) vote just demonstrates I wasn't in the scum section of the wagon. I have been scumhunting, I found you and Faust. Defensiveness is incredibly important, because if I don't defend myself a non scum dies. I said writing gigantic diatribes is what I do BEST. And it felt gigantic, because it took forever to assemble all those quotes. I did say my scumreads. You and Faust. In addition, you two seem to be arbitrarily ganging up on me, with the "why so defensive" and the demonizing my defense. Whats wrong with defense? moat defends.
PPE 1
I think it is quite likely you are both scum.How likely do you think it is that MiX and me are both scum, given the way we act towards you?Pointing at a RVS vote to explain you're the first on a wagon??? Why ari, why, that whole post is so scummy, oh my god, focus on scumhunting, not defensiveness, PLEASE.
You also say "writing gigantic diatribes is what I do" but your last 2 posts are...short.
Did you say what your scumreads are yet? Phone posting, don't wanna check
The RVS (stands for random, right) vote just demonstrates I wasn't in the scum section of the wagon. I have been scumhunting, I found you and Faust. Defensiveness is incredibly important, because if I don't defend myself a non scum dies. I said writing gigantic diatribes is what I do BEST. And it felt gigantic, because it took forever to assemble all those quotes. I did say my scumreads. You and Faust. In addition, you two seem to be arbitrarily ganging up on me, with the "why so defensive" and the demonizing my defense. Whats wrong with defense? moat defends.
PPE 1
Also 2 scumreads is not very much. Even if they were correct (which is not the case) there would still be more scum out there. It isn't good to have this tunnel vision on two players and not consider who else could be scum, because there is certainly other scum out there.
shraeye sounds like town
nice to be in a game with mail-mi
MiX and faust, the town team of doom, despair scum, we are here!Ok.
ari, FoS isn't voting; if your scumreads aren't enough to put votes down, you have to dig deeper: try to reread people, look at some cases to see if you agree with them, ask questions to people to dismantle some null reads...that's what I've been doing. This is also an answer to raerae.
faust is saying everything I want to say; I think this is towny, faust could be quiet and not help ari.
Ozle reference! And while I'm at it, I find it personally offensive that one of your favourite words is Mountebank, you must be a vile person :P
PPE 2: I for one think your tunnelling on shraeye is perfectly valid.
For instance, saying I remind him/her/whatever (crap, I do need pronouns)
He.
faust: Someone pointed out I could not possibly be right about my restriction thing with faust because of the set up. Obviously correct, oversight on my end. To further on that point though, really really really weird for faust. LL came in and asked the money question ("faust - are you town aligned). So faust has no backdoor for being some third faction and fake claiming or whatever at this point... so super hard town lean on him as of now. I know that is gonna come off as some weak ass reasoning to players that have not played with faust, but just go like read... any other game ever.. it will make sense.
For instance, saying I remind him/her/whatever (crap, I do need pronouns)He.
To see one person's posts, just view their post history; most people only post here anyway. For further sorting you'll have to ask someone else.
Good vote, any other scumreads, ari? If none, can you look at shraeye? I need as many people as possible on him.
I might post a case on him if I have something really solid, no guarantees though...
Ariship’s pile of posts in the past page are making it a lot harder to ignore the bizarre 180 from before. Despite other people’s opinions about how town they assume him to be, I can’t help but think he is a bit too shady.
Vote: AIRship
Ariship’s pile of posts in the past page are making it a lot harder to ignore the bizarre 180 from before. Despite other people’s opinions about how town they assume him to be, I can’t help but think he is a bit too shady.
Vote: AIRship
180 from what to what?
Ariship’s pile of posts in the past page are making it a lot harder to ignore the bizarre 180 from before. Despite other people’s opinions about how town they assume him to be, I can’t help but think he is a bit too shady.
Vote: AIRship
Ariship’s pile of posts in the past page are making it a lot harder to ignore the bizarre 180 from before. Despite other people’s opinions about how town they assume him to be, I can’t help but think he is a bit too shady.
Vote: AIRship
180 from what to what?
There is a lot going on right now, and I'm not really following it all b/c I haven't read the whole game yet. However I should have some time tonight to catch up.
I ended that statement by saying I agree with you! I only said that it doesn't "conclusively" prove it! If I started agreeing with you, and ended agreeing with you, that's a 0, not a 180. Also, I suck at picking up on sarcasm. As does the rest of the internet, so best not to use it.Ariship’s pile of posts in the past page are making it a lot harder to ignore the bizarre 180 from before. Despite other people’s opinions about how town they assume him to be, I can’t help but think he is a bit too shady.
Vote: AIRship
180 from what to what?
The 180 that you claim isn’t one but I can’t help reading it as one where you went from defending MiX by saying my buddying wasn’t a good enough reason to vote (because I used the terms “obviously” and “conclusively” sarcastically) then voting on him for buddying a few posts later.
It wasn't a 180. "I actually agree with you, fos MiX" is what I ended with. I only proved it didn't definitively prove you were sum! In addition, I don't expect you to defend me. I expect you to attack me, because I expect you are scum.Ariship’s pile of posts in the past page are making it a lot harder to ignore the bizarre 180 from before. Despite other people’s opinions about how town they assume him to be, I can’t help but think he is a bit too shady.
Vote: AIRship
See what you did ari? Your defensiveness is your undoing! How can I defend you when you do such scummy things? I continue to refuse this would be anything noob!scum does, but it's getting harder to say that by the minute.Ariship’s pile of posts in the past page are making it a lot harder to ignore the bizarre 180 from before. Despite other people’s opinions about how town they assume him to be, I can’t help but think he is a bit too shady.
Vote: AIRship
180 from what to what?
Uncle already explained that before, your defence on my buddying into voting for me; yes you defended it, but I guess he doesn't believe you (I do, if that wasn't already public knowledge).There is a lot going on right now, and I'm not really following it all b/c I haven't read the whole game yet. However I should have some time tonight to catch up.
You better, my lack of scumreads makes me think you're one of them...at least it would be nice if we had 13 players instead of 12.
PPE 1: Ha I just said that
Sorry, did a typo. I bolded it. I meant "scum" instead of "sum".It wasn't a 180. "I actually agree with you, fos MiX" is what I ended with. I only proved it didn't definitively prove you were sum! In addition, I don't expect you to defend me. I expect you to attack me, because I expect you are scum.Ariship’s pile of posts in the past page are making it a lot harder to ignore the bizarre 180 from before. Despite other people’s opinions about how town they assume him to be, I can’t help but think he is a bit too shady.
Vote: AIRship
See what you did ari? Your defensiveness is your undoing! How can I defend you when you do such scummy things? I continue to refuse this would be anything noob!scum does, but it's getting harder to say that by the minute.Ariship’s pile of posts in the past page are making it a lot harder to ignore the bizarre 180 from before. Despite other people’s opinions about how town they assume him to be, I can’t help but think he is a bit too shady.
Vote: AIRship
180 from what to what?
Uncle already explained that before, your defence on my buddying into voting for me; yes you defended it, but I guess he doesn't believe you (I do, if that wasn't already public knowledge).There is a lot going on right now, and I'm not really following it all b/c I haven't read the whole game yet. However I should have some time tonight to catch up.
You better, my lack of scumreads makes me think you're one of them...at least it would be nice if we had 13 players instead of 12.
PPE 1: Ha I just said that
Well, not good. You may have noticed that I am voting for DatSwan.
faust: Someone pointed out I could not possibly be right about my restriction thing with faust because of the set up. Obviously correct, oversight on my end. To further on that point though, really really really weird for faust. LL came in and asked the money question ("faust - are you town aligned). So faust has no backdoor for being some third faction and fake claiming or whatever at this point... so super hard town lean on him as of now. I know that is gonna come off as some weak ass reasoning to players that have not played with faust, but just go like read... any other game ever.. it will make sense.
You're really giving faust hard towncred because he said he was town-aligned?? Because he couldn't possibly be skum saying "Yup, sure, whatever you want to hear."?? That seems extreme.
@faust, if DS were saying this about anybody else, how would you feel about it?
Quick question, is there a way to display only the posts of one person for convenient rereading?Unfortunately not. You can bring up the whole thread and search for "username: X" if that person has a ShuffleIT username. Alternatively search for some distinguishing part of their signature. Or you can bring up the Print screen (button in top righthand corner) and search by "post by: X".
In addition, you two seem to be arbitrarily ganging up on me, with the "why so defensive" and the demonizing my defense. Whats wrong with defense? moat defends.By the way, I never demonized anything. I asked a question, and you answered. If anything it seems like you are demonizing my asking that question.
Also Vote: raerae is my preference for now
In fact, could someone give me a quick summary of what's happened so far? That would be extremely helpful.There was an early MiX wagon that got to L-2. shraeye asked a much-discussed question (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg784305#msg7843059). A bunch of people including me thought voting raerae was neat for a while. I posted in quotes only for a while, which sparked some strange ideas in DatSwan. The newbies did a lot of infighting.
asking a lot of questions and doing nothing of actual scum hunting so far
If you'd enlighten me, how does one scumhunt in an online forum where our only interactions are text based? Questions are bad because we get answers and reactions? I'll have to keep that in mind.
In fact, could someone give me a quick summary of what's happened so far? That would be extremely helpful.
In addition, you two seem to be arbitrarily ganging up on me, with the "why so defensive" and the demonizing my defense. Whats wrong with defense? moat defends.By the way, I never demonized anything. I asked a question, and you answered. If anything it seems like you are demonizing my asking that question.
I reread the thread again (!). I wanted to pull together the various cases on MiX. Here is what I found (post numbers may be off by one because I display posts with most recent ones first and that changes the numbering for some reason).I repented of that. I now suspect MiX due to his blatant buddying of me early on and his attempts to paint me as defensive (although Faust is more guilty of the latter).
82: Ari v. MiX because he thinks one big wagon is better than several small ones (I definitely disagree here)
In addition, you two seem to be arbitrarily ganging up on me, with the "why so defensive" and the demonizing my defense. Whats wrong with defense? moat defends.By the way, I never demonized anything. I asked a question, and you answered. If anything it seems like you are demonizing my asking that question.
Sense when has asking "why are you being so defensive" not been implying that it is improperly placed defense? There is no right answer to that question!
Ariship’s pile of posts in the past page are making it a lot harder to ignore the bizarre 180 from before. Despite other people’s opinions about how town they assume him to be, I can’t help but think he is a bit too shady.
The RVS (stands for random, right) vote just demonstrates I wasn't in the scum section of the wagon.
Defensiveness is incredibly important, because if I don't defend myself a non scum dies.
Whats wrong with defense?
MiX buddyed me, the noob. I suspect it was an early attempt to get me on his side. For instance, saying I remind him/her/whatever (crap, I do need pronouns) of him/her/whatever, and saying he/she/whatever liked my style. I imagine MiX thought my noobness would make me like him and defend him and not vote for him. If I am right, he/she/whatever was wrong.
is anyone other than you asking a lot of questions?
EFHW hasn't done much, maybe she doesn't have a lot of availability, but everything seems low effort...I guess I'll ask her a question: If you don't want to disclose your townreads, can you at least say your scumreads?
In addition, you two seem to be arbitrarily ganging up on me, with the "why so defensive" and the demonizing my defense. Whats wrong with defense? moat defends.By the way, I never demonized anything. I asked a question, and you answered. If anything it seems like you are demonizing my asking that question.
Sense when has asking "why are you being so defensive" not been implying that it is improperly placed defense? There is no right answer to that question!
Ah, almost missed this is also aimed at me, you haven't actually said why you were defending, but I don't think there's a towny way to answer it. I would still like to see your attempt.Ariship’s pile of posts in the past page are making it a lot harder to ignore the bizarre 180 from before. Despite other people’s opinions about how town they assume him to be, I can’t help but think he is a bit too shady.
What does ari's recent posts have to do with something he did way before?The RVS (stands for random, right) vote just demonstrates I wasn't in the scum section of the wagon.
You unvoted me and then revoted me, which means your vote wasn't random; stating that it was is...scummy...Defensiveness is incredibly important, because if I don't defend myself a non scum dies.
Does this mean that defending actively kills scum? You're not even close to being a lynch target...why would you say this?Whats wrong with defense?
Defense does not help your scumhunting.MiX buddyed me, the noob. I suspect it was an early attempt to get me on his side. For instance, saying I remind him/her/whatever (crap, I do need pronouns) of him/her/whatever, and saying he/she/whatever liked my style. I imagine MiX thought my noobness would make me like him and defend him and not vote for him. If I am right, he/she/whatever was wrong.
I am not this naive: buddying someone does not make a townread back, although I wish it did so I wouldn't have to do this post. I like your arrogance by saying that you're right and I'm wrong, precisely what I expected from you.is anyone other than you asking a lot of questions?
I am and you just did, so...
Is there anything else I forgot to mention?
PPE 3: EFHW, I somewhat buried this question, but:EFHW hasn't done much, maybe she doesn't have a lot of availability, but everything seems low effort...I guess I'll ask her a question: If you don't want to disclose your townreads, can you at least say your scumreads?
arishpshape posts EXACTLY how I would post my first post in my first game, therefore he is town; regardless, I do believe giving newbies a D1 pass has become customary: by those I clearly mean myself, arishpshape and Debatepro.
Love silverspawn's response, disagree with the votes as I've said.
I've read some recent games, in those, I don't think I've seen shraeye nor raerae, so I consider them my biggest threats.
In that case, vote: shraeye , you look like a better person to get reactions from, for no reason whatsoever.
Please, though your logic comes to the correct conclusion that I am in fact town, it is completely flawed. First, the fact that I posted as you would post is completely irrelevant to my townhood. Second, if you are to spare me on the grounds that I am a "newbie", how am I to learn either strategy, nor the essence of the forum game known as mafia? If anyone here thinks I am worthy of lynching, spare me not. Regardless, any wagon on anyone besides me is beneficial to the town, from my perspective and knowledge. Therefore, vote: shraeye
Touche. I hereby retract my previous statement.To the general game, I think starting a bandwagon on 1 person is better than starting 3. Therefore, I shall change my vote to vote: MiX. Especially because of that random buddying. If at any point I accidentally make an anti town vote, please explain to me why it was bad immediately, as I am still a noob.
I disagree that starting a wagon on one is better than having many wagons. It makes it far to easy for scum to push for a quick lynch and for town to get pigeon-holed on a single person. I like a day one with lots of wagons and lots of interactions because it actual gives us something to look at in future days.
Touche. Again, I am used to quick mafia where you could get hammered within seconds. Unvote. You keep my FOS for buddying, but I agree, insufficient for a vote.I'm just saying this because I haven't spoken in a while. Anyways, here's my take of the situation. MiX gets my FOS because of the random buddying and the fact that he is quite chill with 5 votes on him. If I were in his position, I would be demanding explanations from each person voting on me. Perhaps that would be sub-optimal play, but I still think the complete lack of "what the heck guys" is a little objectionable.
I've heard everyone's explanations; I have no reason to fight back against their cases if not by pointing out that they're wrong, panicking does not help the town effort: after all, it's still early D1
Can you unvote me/explain why you're voting me? you gave me FoS for buddying, but is that enough for a vote?
I am sorry if I sounded overly aggressive, I try not to do that and I didn't try to make this personal.
Questions are good when you react to answers after that. You ask how does one scumhunt — is anyone other than you asking a lot of questions? Mostly people are doing analysis of what actually happened.
Actually, I don't have strong scum reads, it's still D1. But this is better than nothing! About shraeye though — call it a hunch. I tend to use intuition when I am talking about my reads.
Now what do I think?
The buddying of Ari has turned into a play-acting of psychotic stalker who sees a relationship that isn't there. It's funny, but it's also obfuscating. What does he really think? If you are trying to scumhunt, you usually leave more room for uncertainty, and it's rare for town to town!tunnel someone, especially based on their first post.
re: flailing: It's true that MiX answers every comment immediately. I'm not sure that counts as flailing, though. I'd like to hear more of why Shraeye picked that word.
I really don't follow the "meaning/purpose vs. reason" distinction. I get that MiX wants to say the vote was intended to pressure him (meaning) but was silent on what provoked it (reason). He's trying to say that when he looked closer, he saw the intended purpose. But it really sounded at the time like he thought he knew the provocation. OTOH, what does scum!MiX gain from pretending to know something he doesn't?
re: raerae: The MiX/Shraeye QT theory seems really implausible. They could share a QT, but I don't see this as evidence of that at all. It's also odd when raerae defends MiX at 176, saying maybe he was reading quickly and thought he saw a reason that wasn't there. How would that happen? She seems all over the place about MiX.
That's exactly the answer I was looking for: good, you didn't come up with a lie.
That does make a bit more sense, but the conclusion is still several steps away from the data. I do think people generally defend cases on themselves when they are trying not to seem defensive - when they are scum. I would add this to a general self-consciousness I have noticed in MiX's posts throughout. He's focused so much on being witty, though, that I can't tell if that is the source of the self-csness or if it is a guilty conscience.re: raerae: The MiX/Shraeye QT theory seems really implausible. They could share a QT, but I don't see this as evidence of that at all. It's also odd when raerae defends MiX at 176, saying maybe he was reading quickly and thought he saw a reason that wasn't there. How would that happen? She seems all over the place about MiX.
175 wasn't a defense, EFHW, it was an explanation for MiX defending shraeye's unstated case. I was saying they'd talked in their QT about shraeye coming in early with a case and MiX didn't realize shraeye hadn't actually posted it. I don't see any reason for town to defend a case on themselves so it seems like a setup to me.
PPE 3: EFHW, I somewhat buried this question, but:Still working on this.EFHW hasn't done much, maybe she doesn't have a lot of availability, but everything seems low effort...I guess I'll ask her a question: If you don't want to disclose your townreads, can you at least say your scumreads?
@ari please clip quotations to relevant bits to avoid wall posts.Ok.
That does make a bit more sense, but the conclusion is still several steps away from the data. I do think people generally defend cases on themselves when they are trying not to seem defensive - when they are scum. I would add this to a general self-consciousness I have noticed in MiX's posts throughout. He's focused so much on being witty, though, that I can't tell if that is the source of the self-csness or if it is a guilty conscience.Why would anyone want to not seem defensive? What is wrong or scummy about defensiveness?
Defensiveness implies a guilty conscience.Oh. The way I see it, even town can be defensive because the town doesn't want to die either. If we lynch town, we lost a town member and didn't lynch scum, which would be a disaster. Thus, I see no issues with defensiveness.
Uncle's town, his case on me is outstandly solid yet he dropped his vote on me,Wait what?
I'm not sure if shraeye's case is towny or not...some things are dead onWait what?
while others are clearly misinterpreting what I've said:
Now my reactions to your vote...at first I was thinking you would explain the vote sooner, so I asked for said explanation. Then, seeing that faust voted for me without saying anything new, I came to the (at the time) only logical conclusion: the purpose of your vote was for pressure. You had a reason behind the vote, whatever it was, but the motive was clear, so I backed off: if you don't want to say what it is, who am I to push it?Wait what? Mix thought I would explain it soon, so waited for explanation. Then decided it was for pressure; but immediately said I had an unknown reason, but the motive was clear. Then approached it as if Mix had made a slip. Then MiX told raerae to look closer because it was for pressure. Then Mix said my case was because he did something which I found scummy.
Now, knowing the meaning, I approached it as a normal case, the case being whatever the initial reason was, which for me meant a minor slip (like me buddying or maybe just the way I worded things, I didn't know what, but I knew that town!shraeye and scum!shraeye would have some backing to that vote), so I mentioned it when stating cases on me; didn't want to leave out any information, that would just be scummy for no reason, more info is good.
Then raerae said there's no reason: well, there's just no way shraeye would do that play without a reason, so I told her to look closer; by doing so, she would come to the same conclusion that I did: the motive was pressure (note how I said the "meaningfulness" exists if you look closer, not the reason; after all, you could only guess at it, and raerae already stated she did not want to).
Then, after raerae continued to push me on why I thought shraeye's case existed in the first place, I said what I'm saying now: I did something that he thought was scummy and he voted me based on those reasons; at that point, some time had passed and shraeye hadn't said what the scummy thing was, so I asked for it: whatever it was must've been good enough to vote, but was it enough to maintain it? I was also on the process of destroying my early wagon, and that vote was part of it.
although i understand why people are trying to flush out MiX's partners.Yup; I've 96% moved onto searching for MiX's partners and only 4% asking myself "but what if I'm wrong!?" I'm not wrong.
Ok, so I think MiX is perfectly towny and the wagon is questionable. But I'll need to look at who's onn it to decide whether it makes them scummy. It's definitely one of the things to analyze this game.I don't see it; what's your reasoning that MiX is perfectly towny?
Yeah, I don’t play games I don’t know the rules to.It's easy; I ask you to guess, you guess; then everybody decides if you are good or bad because of it.
I agree with the bolded. Uncle feels offI realized I hadn't responded to this. I'm not in any hurry. Just sharing something I've noticed because I'm not interested in extending the day "just because". I'm experimenting with not sharing townreads right off, so yeah, I guess I was trying to say "Hi, I'm playing too." I didn't back down from anything, so I'm confused why you mention that I did and then take it back. My initial impression of consensus was dispelled by the subsequent posts, so I shared that. It feels like you are looking for ways to read me as scummy.I reread the game so far and I find that I agree with what has been said about MiX being scummy.
Developed some town reads, which is always helpful.
Holding off voting since it's so early, but once we have a rough consensus the day starts to feel over regardless.
PPE: silver
This seems weird to me, already eager to end the day and move on? Calm down and enjoy the show. And I realize this was corrected by you not reading all the posts, but still, this mentality seems dangerous to me.
Plus the entirety of your posts have been very scarce with you only coming in to agree with a consensus, say you have town reads without any risk involved in the claim (because it was left as the quite simplistic: "Yo, I have town reads, fools." Like, what is the purpose of saying this to us other than to be like "I'm playing the game too, guys!"), then backed down from the consensus once it wasn't a consensus. (Well, maybe not backed down, but still.)
And since my current vote isn't generating any discussion I may as well Vote: AFEW
(Vote: EFHW <-Just in case)
Now what do I think?
The buddying of Ari has turned into a play-acting of psychotic stalker who sees a relationship that isn't there. It's funny, but it's also obfuscating. What does he really think? If you are trying to scumhunt, you usually leave more room for uncertainty, and it's rare for town to town!tunnel someone, especially based on their first post.
re: flailing: It's true that MiX answers every comment immediately. I'm not sure that counts as flailing, though. I'd like to hear more of why Shraeye picked that word.
I really don't follow the "meaning/purpose vs. reason" distinction. I get that MiX wants to say the vote was intended to pressure him (meaning) but was silent on what provoked it (reason). He's trying to say that when he looked closer, he saw the intended purpose. But it really sounded at the time like he thought he knew the provocation. OTOH, what does scum!MiX gain from pretending to know something he doesn't?
re: raerae: The MiX/Shraeye QT theory seems really implausible. They could share a QT, but I don't see this as evidence of that at all. It's also odd when raerae defends MiX at 176, saying maybe he was reading quickly and thought he saw a reason that wasn't there. How would that happen? She seems all over the place about MiX.
I would add this to a general self-consciousness I have noticed in MiX's posts throughout. He's focused so much on being witty, though, that I can't tell if that is the source of the self-csness or if it is a guilty conscience.
That's exactly the answer I was looking for: good, you didn't come up with a lie.
What lie could I have made up and why would I?
Defensiveness implies a guilty conscience.Oh. The way I see it, even town can be defensive because the town doesn't want to die either. If we lynch town, we lost a town member and didn't lynch scum, which would be a disaster. Thus, I see no issues with defensiveness.
4) Mix (38) - I am torn. They open as an opportunist wagon, but some of the stuff they say is just so skummy. I could vote here, but not my preferred choice today.
Can confirm. This is raerae-meta.This post reads as if it should really end in a vote for DatSwan. It doesn't, and that makes it scummy. There is little point in dismantling someone else's townread on you unless you think they are scum and you can show it this way.
I vote when I'm good and ready, not a moment before, and I'm not a bit sorry it doesn't match your expectations. The other thing I don't do is vote based on a single post unless that post is a copy/paste of a scum role message. Again, not a bit sorry about that.
I strongly like itseems to disagree with my game play and that makes me scummy in his eyesI strongly dislike this attempt to invalidate my read on raerae.
raerae be right; I've said it before and I'll reaffirm. This be townrae.asking a lot of questions and doing nothing of actual scum hunting so far
If you'd enlighten me, how does one scumhunt in an online forum where our only interactions are text based? Questions are bad because we get answers and reactions? I'll have to keep that in mind.
Gut instinct based on how people have been playingAlso Vote: raerae is my preference for now
Cooooooool, how come?
Convoluted, but not scummy. I think everybody found it puzzling; I did.This is directed at faust. ----- Are you just doing a bit with the quotes or do you have a role restriction regarding what you can post? If I am correct you would not be able to answer with a "yes or no"... so how about this for now:This is so convoluted that it is a bit scummy. I would think that scum finds my behaviour more puzzling; they know I'm not doing it because I'm scum, so they try to make some sense of it otherwise.
And [faust], with your town information deprivation early on, and arbitrary disliking of my defense.I disagree that this makes faust scummy. I think he said it's a bit of a new way for him to play; I think that leans town if it leans either way at all.
2 scumreads is plenty IMHO, just cause I haven't decided who I think the third (who may or may not exist because power scum) scum is doesn't mean I have tunnel vision. I haven't seen anything overly scummy in everyone else. 2 scum reads is enough. It's not like we can lynch 3 people in 1 day.This part of ari's post is true. I'm hunting for more because I'm super sure on MiX; but there's rules saying successful scumhunters have to call the whole team Day1.
Uncle's town, his case on me is outstandly solid yet he dropped his vote on me,Wait what?I'm not sure if shraeye's case is towny or not...some things are dead onWait what?
while others are clearly misinterpreting what I've said:
I just like to say the truth
Gut instinct based on how people have been playingAlso Vote: raerae is my preference for now
Cooooooool, how come?
if [shraeye] shows up today and says some nice, straightforward information granting things, i'll give him a pass.Sorry man, I'm just going to keep being me.
Shraeye, no more games. Say things straight.
but there's rules saying successful scumhunters have to call the whole team Day1.Ha. "There's no rules"
People including youGut instinct based on how people have been playingAlso Vote: raerae is my preference for now
Cooooooool, how come?
So your vote on me is base on how other people have been playing? Seems legit.
Buddying?Can confirm. This is raerae-meta.This post reads as if it should really end in a vote for DatSwan. It doesn't, and that makes it scummy. There is little point in dismantling someone else's townread on you unless you think they are scum and you can show it this way.
I vote when I'm good and ready, not a moment before, and I'm not a bit sorry it doesn't match your expectations. The other thing I don't do is vote based on a single post unless that post is a copy/paste of a scum role message. Again, not a bit sorry about that.I strongly like itseems to disagree with my game play and that makes me scummy in his eyesI strongly dislike this attempt to invalidate my read on raerae.raerae be right; I've said it before and I'll reaffirm. This be townrae.asking a lot of questions and doing nothing of actual scum hunting so far
If you'd enlighten me, how does one scumhunt in an online forum where our only interactions are text based? Questions are bad because we get answers and reactions? I'll have to keep that in mind.
Playing games obfuscates information. Therefore, playing games is anti-town, as the town is attempting to fix it's information deficit, while the scum is trying to make the deficit as painful as possible by clouding and sowing discord and strife. You can keep being you, if you want the town to have a harder time. Consider shraeye officially on my FOS list, along with Faust.if [shraeye] shows up today and says some nice, straightforward information granting things, i'll give him a pass.Sorry man, I'm just going to keep being me.
Shraeye, no more games. Say things straight.
As a new player, aren't there some advantages to pulling the trigger a bit earlier than expected if you are fairly certain? I mean... doesn't it give their scum!buddies a chance to build an alternative narrative impacting future votes.I'm not sure, as I am not used to forum mafia, but I believe having more conversation rather than ending the day is more important. More conversation equals more information. In addition, the mafia is gonna kill someone at night, and that will guarantee that person be town. The more everyone talks, the more that person talks, the more solid town opinions we have.
Let's be honest, it's MiX, why keep them around? If you are their scum!buddy you have read the writing on the wall and you want to keep the day going long enough to build some alternative narratives. And if we're wrong... I'm not sure its a huge loss.
This is nothing against MiX, I'll be the first one to pour one out for them if they are town and put on the dunce hat. I think some of the issues are a change in the speed of the game compared to what they are used to and the available time.
People including you
I think you're slightly scummy, and many other people I think are slightly towny
Buddying?
As a new player, aren't there some advantages to pulling the trigger a bit earlier than expected if you are fairly certain? I mean... doesn't it give their scum!buddies a chance to build an alternative narrative impacting future votes.D1 we're unlikely to be fairly certain though, as we're basing things off mostly nothing
Let's be honest, it's MiX, why keep them around? If you are their scum!buddy you have read the writing on the wall and you want to keep the day going long enough to build some alternative narratives. And if we're wrong... I'm not sure its a huge loss.
This is nothing against MiX, I'll be the first one to pour one out for them if they are town and put on the dunce hat. I think some of the issues are a change in the speed of the game compared to what they are used to and the available time.
As a new player, aren't there some advantages to pulling the trigger a bit earlier than expected if you are fairly certain? I mean... doesn't it give their scum!buddies a chance to build an alternative narrative impacting future votes.
Let's be honest, it's MiX, why keep them around? If you are their scum!buddy you have read the writing on the wall and you want to keep the day going long enough to build some alternative narratives. And if we're wrong... I'm not sure its a huge loss.
This is nothing against MiX, I'll be the first one to pour one out for them if they are town and put on the dunce hat. I think some of the issues are a change in the speed of the game compared to what they are used to and the available time.
re: flailing: It's true that MiX answers every comment immediately. I'm not sure that counts as flailing, though. I'd like to hear more of why Shraeye picked that word.
I will not accept being the mislynch: I am very easily the most active player in the entire game, removing me from the game now is the biggest mistake town could make.Seconded. Scum loves all this attention on MiX.
I will not accept being the mislynch: I am very easily the most active player in the entire game, removing me from the game now is the biggest mistake town could make.
What do you mean pull the trigger? Hammer? Not enough people are certain I'm the correct lynch for that, next time try to say I'm scummy instead of saying I should get lynched "to pull the trigger earlier".
I am being very defensive here: I'm still the biggest wagon and my scumreads barely have any votes on them, getting desperate.
arishpshape posts EXACTLY how I would post my first post in my first game, therefore he is town
You really post like me...I like your style! Besides, even without the newbie pass, I still consider you town, I believe scum would talk to their summates first, diminishing that "first post" feel when they do talk in public, at least for a new person.
I am blatantly buddying you aren't I? I should prepare myself for when you're scum...
Seconded. Scum loves all this attention on MiX.Why are you defending MiX? Do you think he's town? If so, say it clearly, and give justification.
Just because something is anti-town doesn't mean it's scummy. And anyway there are different ideas of what constitutes anti-town play. shraeye got more reactions from his question than he had from making a case on you, and interactions are a good thing.Playing games obfuscates information. Therefore, playing games is anti-town, as the town is attempting to fix it's information deficit, while the scum is trying to make the deficit as painful as possible by clouding and sowing discord and strife. You can keep being you, if you want the town to have a harder time. Consider shraeye officially on my FOS list, along with Faust.if [shraeye] shows up today and says some nice, straightforward information granting things, i'll give him a pass.Sorry man, I'm just going to keep being me.
Shraeye, no more games. Say things straight.
Yes, I think he's town. I think he's a capable player and it would have been so easy to not bring all this attention on himself. Plus the way people refuse to move away from that wagon shows that scum isn't interested in alternatives.Seconded. Scum loves all this attention on MiX.Why are you defending MiX? Do you think he's town? If so, say it clearly, and give justification.
Yes, I think he's town. I think he's a capable player and it would have been so easy to not bring all this attention on himself. Plus the way people refuse to move away from that wagon shows that scum isn't interested in alternatives.Seconded. Scum loves all this attention on MiX.Why are you defending MiX? Do you think he's town? If so, say it clearly, and give justification.
shraeye, you missed one question:I've covered thisre: flailing: It's true that MiX answers every comment immediately. I'm not sure that counts as flailing, though. I'd like to hear more of why Shraeye picked that word.
MiX, how do you justify your early buddying? For example:arishpshape posts EXACTLY how I would post my first post in my first game, therefore he is townYou really post like me...I like your style! Besides, even without the newbie pass, I still consider you town, I believe scum would talk to their summates first, diminishing that "first post" feel when they do talk in public, at least for a new person.
I am blatantly buddying you aren't I? I should prepare myself for when you're scum...
shraeye, you missed one question:I've covered thisre: flailing: It's true that MiX answers every comment immediately. I'm not sure that counts as flailing, though. I'd like to hear more of why Shraeye picked that word.
Yes, I think he's town. I think he's a capable player and it would have been so easy to not bring all this attention on himself. Plus the way people refuse to move away from that wagon shows that scum isn't interested in alternatives.Seconded. Scum loves all this attention on MiX.Why are you defending MiX? Do you think he's town? If so, say it clearly, and give justification.
"MiX is a capable player" and "he has a persistent wagon" isn't gonna cut it. I'm sure people are willing to move away from the MiX wagon, if presented with a more scummy figure. Are you volunteering yourself?
"a more scummy figure" is shraeye, DatSwan...and Joseph? Mostly the first two.I just re-read DatSwan, except for that half finished opinion article on everyone I don't see any scummyness there. I fos shraeye, but think that buddying is more suspect than playing games. Joseph? Haven't noticed him. I'll reread him when I have time.
i think at least one of silver/faust is scum, I've read nothing to move my vote from raerae, still think it's a good chance to catch scum there, DS sounds too inattentive which is weird for him
I feel like there is a lot of discussion about nothing by everybody and some deeper level of discussion I can't grasp at
Not really, I wasn't aware that I had done any one thing differently. But I have been consciously trying to avoid arguments -- in general, but with you in particular -- and LaLight said we sounded more civil or whatever. If he picked up something real, that's a totally plausible explanation for it.I've been making a conscious effort to avoid emotional arguments with faust, which is probably what you're picking up. I don't think it says anything about his alignment.Can you specify where this has led you to act differently towards me than you would have otherwise?
Why would anyone want to not seem defensive? What is wrong or scummy about defensiveness?
Does anybody else see how ridiculous this is? His stance is flapping back and forth like a flag in a blizzard.
Look at this vote count. I'll color the vets in blue.As well as 4 newbies on a fifth newbie, there's also 3 vets on the same person
MiX (4): Debatepro, shraeye, raerae, arishipshape
raerae (3): silverspawn, LaLight, Joseph2302
shraeye (1): MiX
mail-mi (1): DatSwan
DatSwan (1): faust
arishipshape (1): Uncleeurope
Not Voting (2): mail-mi, EFHW
Most notably, we have four super new players voting for a fifth super new player.
What does it mean? I'm not sure. But that seems like something more worthy of discussion.
As a new player, aren't there some advantages to pulling the trigger a bit earlier than expected if you are fairly certain? I mean... doesn't it give their scum!buddies a chance to build an alternative narrative impacting future votes.
Let's be honest, it's MiX, why keep them around? If you are their scum!buddy you have read the writing on the wall and you want to keep the day going long enough to build some alternative narratives. And if we're wrong... I'm not sure its a huge loss.
This is nothing against MiX, I'll be the first one to pour one out for them if they are town and put on the dunce hat. I think some of the issues are a change in the speed of the game compared to what they are used to and the available time.
As well as 4 newbies on a fifth newbie, there's also 3 vets on the same person
Look at this vote count. I'll color the vets in blue.As well as 4 newbies on a fifth newbie, there's also 3 vets on the same person
MiX (4): Debatepro, shraeye, raerae, arishipshape
raerae (3): silverspawn, LaLight, Joseph2302
shraeye (1): MiX
mail-mi (1): DatSwan
DatSwan (1): faust
arishipshape (1): Uncleeurope
Not Voting (2): mail-mi, EFHW
Most notably, we have four super new players voting for a fifth super new player.
What does it mean? I'm not sure. But that seems like something more worthy of discussion.
Yeah, I have no idea why I was voting for her, though, and you probably don't have a great reason, either, so I don't think that means as much.......why you assuming Joseph's lack of reasons?
inb4 he's scum and I'm dead wrong. But my gut also says town. Plus the attention thing faust mentioned is a good point.So voting DatSwan because of faust?
let's vote: DatSwan. I hope your reads are better this game than last @faust
although i understand why people are trying to flush out MiX's partners.Yup; I've 96% moved onto searching for MiX's partners and only 4% asking myself "but what if I'm wrong!?" I'm not wrong.
Assuming MiX is scum, it would take more guts to stay off it. Scum might now feel pressured to bus.This doesn’t make any sense, you just said none of the experienced players are on MiX. It does provide you with an alternative target in D2, if a more experienced player jumps on because the newbs arguments become compelling and/or you don't want to go down with the ship. The fog of war.
let's vote: DatSwan. I hope your reads are better this game than last @faustDoes this sucking up technique actually work?
Re: Mix responding to every point: that's a playstyle thing. In order for a "flailing" argument to have any merit, you need to point out that he does it differently as town vs scum. Since this is his first game (right?) there's no reason to believe it's anything other than playstyle.He is not new and this isn’t flailing… it’s worse. He didn’t care then started asking a billion questions, while mentioning every other player in the rest of his threads.
Answering questions is super scummy. vote: arishipshape
You don’t have to be more consistent than scum to be town… you just have to be consistent… a town is less consistent that scum… that can’t be.Does anybody else see how ridiculous this is? His stance is flapping back and forth like a flag in a blizzard.That probably means he's town. The idea that town is more consistent than scum is a myth. Generally, the opposite is true. For new players in particular, you should assume the opposite.
Remember that this game is not actually about winning arguments and then lynching people who made the least amount of sense. It's easy to slide into that mode, but the actual goal is to find scum, which is a very different and much harder task.You are not helping find scum.
Of course i'm town, you had the first open town read on me in #150. Plus it’s extra safe to say it now because other have come out with it. It’s the overt defense of MiX that’s troubling.As much as I dislike this post on an emotional level, I have to admit that it probably makes you towny. In fact, it's probably one of the most towny things that have been said so far.
So far you have had no, bad, or contradictory reasons for voting for people.As well as 4 newbies on a fifth newbie, there's also 3 vets on the same person
Yeah, I have no idea why I was voting for her, though, and you probably don't have a great reason, either, so I don't think that means as much.
faust: ... LL came in and asked the money question ("faust - are you town aligned). So faust has no backdoor for being some third faction and fake claiming or whatever at this point... so super hard town lean on him as of now.
I don't understand why this is a statement of fact, i assume it has something to do with rules around third faction(s) or fake claiming? Can someone explain or point me to the rule area... thank you in advance.7) DebatePr0 (11): I have several reasons why I would prefer not to lynch Pro (acceptable nick name?) today.
Prefer debatepro without the zero. I added my Shuffle IT ID in case someone here wanted to crush me in dominion. I may not respond to Pro or Debatepr0 if i am busy since i'll open all the threads and search for my username.
I have a busy day and may not reply until later this evening (US). Still firm on my day one vote anyway, although i understand why people are trying to flush out MiX's partners.
:)
I will not accept being the mislynch: I am very easily the most active player in the entire game, removing me from the game now is the biggest mistake town could make.Seconded. Scum loves all this attention on MiX.
inb4 he's scum and I'm dead wrong. But my gut also says town. Plus the attention thing faust mentioned is a good point.
let's vote: DatSwan. I hope your reads are better this game than last @faust
Yeah, I have no idea why I was voting for her, though, and you probably don't have a great reason, either, so I don't think that means as much.......why you assuming Joseph's lack of reasons?
Also, why you not giving raerae and me vet-cred? We got 5 MVPs between us.
Yes, I think he's town. I think he's a capable player and it would have been so easy to not bring all this attention on himself. Plus the way people refuse to move away from that wagon shows that scum isn't interested in alternatives./Seconded. Scum loves all this attention on MiX.Why are you defending MiX? Do you think he's town? If so, say it clearly, and give justification.
Assuming first MiX is town.
If there are vets among the scum -- which is very likely -- are they likely to join the wagon?
I'm thinking no. At least I don't think I would want to join it. Instinctively, I would feel like this wagon won't lead to a lynch (too early, wagon too weird, case too weak) and so I have no reason to be on it. It looks better in future analysis if I'm not.
Assuming MiX is scum, it would take more guts to stay off it. Scum might now feel pressured to bus. This might be far fetched, but I'm thinking that I'll take the lack of vets on the wagon as evidence for MiX being town.
Other thought: if MiX is town, then this wagon pretty much gives everyone on the scum team full cover. (re: scum loves this wagon). No scum will feel any pressure right now. Which feels like it fits with how the game is going. They'll just stand there and be delighted in all the talk about MiX
My faust explanation isn't based on set up - more just on play style. Faust came into the game playing very out of the ordinary. LL asked if faust was town aligned. Important note is LL did not ask is faust "was skum". This removes the concept of faust being able to come in down the road and claim they were acting differently because they were a third faction (such as a survivor or something).
Now comes by bias that I had put into the reads - I do not believe skum!faust would act this way, and faust has now deleted the opportunity for them to claim to be anything except exactly town-aligned... therefore I think faust is town.
Wait, was ss reading faust as scum earlier? Can you hunt that link?inb4 he's scum and I'm dead wrong. But my gut also says town. Plus the attention thing faust mentioned is a good point.
let's vote: DatSwan. I hope your reads are better this game than last @faust
Assuming this means you no longer think faust is skum?
My faust explanation isn't based on set up - more just on play style. Faust came into the game playing very out of the ordinary. LL asked if faust was town aligned. Important note is LL did not ask is faust "was skum". This removes the concept of faust being able to come in down the road and claim they were acting differently because they were a third faction (such as a survivor or something).
Now comes by bias that I had put into the reads - I do not believe skum!faust would act this way, and faust has now deleted the opportunity for them to claim to be anything except exactly town-aligned... therefore I think faust is town.
I do not understand all the towncred faust is getting for saying he's town. I mean, should we just all claim we're town, hold hands, sing kumbaya, no lynch, and then wait for the NK?
Wait, was ss reading faust as scum earlier? Can you hunt that link?inb4 he's scum and I'm dead wrong. But my gut also says town. Plus the attention thing faust mentioned is a good point.
let's vote: DatSwan. I hope your reads are better this game than last @faust
Assuming this means you no longer think faust is skum?
Silver, what changed?
my assumption is not based on the fact that faust is saying he is town... but based on the concept that I do not think faust would act the way he did as "mafia".
So if the options for faust are
1)Mafia
2)Town
3)Third Faction
...when he said he is "specifically town aligned".. he removed his ability to be a Third Faction. Given his actions I think the only options are Town or Third Faction. He can't be Third Faction... so I think he is Town.
My assumption based on him not being mafia is based on my own opinion.
My assumption based on him not being a third faction is because whether someone is a townish role (survivor or something), or a skummish role (SK)... they would still want to give themselves that out down the road. He removed that possibility on Day 1. So he is Mafia, or he is Town. so I think he is town.
my assumption is not based on the fact that faust is saying he is town... but based on the concept that I do not think faust would act the way he did as "mafia".
So if the options for faust are
1)Mafia
2)Town
3)Third Faction
...when he said he is "specifically town aligned".. he removed his ability to be a Third Faction. Given his actions I think the only options are Town or Third Faction. He can't be Third Faction... so I think he is Town.
My assumption based on him not being mafia is based on my own opinion.
My assumption based on him not being a third faction is because whether someone is a townish role (survivor or something), or a skummish role (SK)... they would still want to give themselves that out down the road. He removed that possibility on Day 1. So he is Mafia, or he is Town. so I think he is town.
I disagree, D1 is far too early to claim anything other than town in a normal game, in RMM that probably changes but we're all normal here. He claims some third faction and he's the NK, easy peasy, so obviously he wouldn't do that to himself.
Wait, was ss reading faust as scum earlier? Can you hunt that link?inb4 he's scum and I'm dead wrong. But my gut also says town. Plus the attention thing faust mentioned is a good point.
let's vote: DatSwan. I hope your reads are better this game than last @faust
Assuming this means you no longer think faust is skum?
Silver, what changed?
It is towny for faust to go against his meta and raise eyebrows, and scum!faust knows this which is why he is likely to emulate it. At only one level of meta you're not likely to obtain significant information that distinguishes between scum!faust and town!faust
my assumption is not based on the fact that faust is saying he is town... but based on the concept that I do not think faust would act the way he did as "mafia".
So if the options for faust are
1)Mafia
2)Town
3)Third Faction
...when he said he is "specifically town aligned".. he removed his ability to be a Third Faction. Given his actions I think the only options are Town or Third Faction. He can't be Third Faction... so I think he is Town.
My assumption based on him not being mafia is based on my own opinion.
My assumption based on him not being a third faction is because whether someone is a townish role (survivor or something), or a skummish role (SK)... they would still want to give themselves that out down the road. He removed that possibility on Day 1. So he is Mafia, or he is Town. so I think he is town.
I disagree, D1 is far too early to claim anything other than town in a normal game, in RMM that probably changes but we're all normal here. He claims some third faction and he's the NK, easy peasy, so obviously he wouldn't do that to himself.
I think you and I are just on different pages... the way an RMM plays out if you are a Anti-Town-Third-Party Faction... typically will come to a point where you have to claim. You obviously do not want to claim being Skum, and in an RMM (with all the potential knowledge of other players), claiming Town is dangerous. The best out would be to claim another third party faction. He removed that from the table.
I mean my opinion on him being town or skum is completely bias on my beliefs, but does that at least wipe up the confusion?
my assumption is not based on the fact that faust is saying he is town... but based on the concept that I do not think faust would act the way he did as "mafia".
So if the options for faust are
1)Mafia
2)Town
3)Third Faction
...when he said he is "specifically town aligned".. he removed his ability to be a Third Faction. Given his actions I think the only options are Town or Third Faction. He can't be Third Faction... so I think he is Town.
My assumption based on him not being mafia is based on my own opinion.
My assumption based on him not being a third faction is because whether someone is a townish role (survivor or something), or a skummish role (SK)... they would still want to give themselves that out down the road. He removed that possibility on Day 1. So he is Mafia, or he is Town. so I think he is town.
I disagree, D1 is far too early to claim anything other than town in a normal game, in RMM that probably changes but we're all normal here. He claims some third faction and he's the NK, easy peasy, so obviously he wouldn't do that to himself.
I think you and I are just on different pages... the way an RMM plays out if you are a Anti-Town-Third-Party Faction... typically will come to a point where you have to claim. You obviously do not want to claim being Skum, and in an RMM (with all the potential knowledge of other players), claiming Town is dangerous. The best out would be to claim another third party faction. He removed that from the table.
I mean my opinion on him being town or skum is completely bias on my beliefs, but does that at least wipe up the confusion?
BUT THIS ISN'T RMM. And it's D1. And claiming town is literally the nullest thing you can do because the entire point of this game is to either lie or identify liars. You can think he's town all day long but to say he can't possibly be anything else because of this single post is mind-boggling.
Let's play this another way; are you town-aligned, DS?
Assuming first MiX is town.
If there are vets among the scum -- which is very likely -- are they likely to join the wagon?
I'm thinking no. At least I don't think I would want to join it. Instinctively, I would feel like this wagon won't lead to a lynch (too early, wagon too weird, case too weak) and so I have no reason to be on it. It looks better in future analysis if I'm not.
Assuming MiX is scum, it would take more guts to stay off it. Scum might now feel pressured to bus. This might be far fetched, but I'm thinking that I'll take the lack of vets on the wagon as evidence for MiX being town.
Other thought: if MiX is town, then this wagon pretty much gives everyone on the scum team full cover. (re: scum loves this wagon). No scum will feel any pressure right now. Which feels like it fits with how the game is going. They'll just stand there and be delighted in all the talk about MiX
So this post is right before you vote for me which kind of tears me both ways... but silver has good points all around on the Mix wagon here.
I am saying RMM in the sense that it is possible that a third party faction is possible.
I am also not saying that he can't possibly be anything else - I actually made it explicitly clear in all my posts where my reasoning turned into opinion.... but to reiterate... I do not belive that skum!anyone would out their ability to claim a "town-aligned" third faction on Day 1 (therefore, I do not think faust is a third faction). So now I have to pick between him being town or skum... and I do not think he is skum this game, based on his interactions... if part of the skum role removed from possibility is third party faction. So, I think he is town.
You get that skum = everything that is NOT exactly town right?
@faust, what do you think of shraeye?I am not too fussed about the way he has played so far. But I thought the whole questioning three players thing was at least a somewhat townie idea. Plus whiteknighting raerae into oblivion seems kind of... less subtle than I expect scum to be.
I just re-read DatSwan, except for that half finished opinion article on everyone I don't see any scummyness there. I fos shraeye, but think that buddying is more suspect than playing games. Joseph? Haven't noticed him. I'll reread him when I have time.You're really just policy voting players. No single behaviour is scummy. You need to look for context.
Anyone else have ace attorney pursuit themes play in their head when they type rebuttals?
inb4 he's scum and I'm dead wrong. But my gut also says town. Plus the attention thing faust mentioned is a good point.Seems somewhat disingenuous considering I have expressed a scumread on you.
let's vote: DatSwan. I hope your reads are better this game than last @faust
Most notably, we have four super new players voting for a fifth super new player.Neither raerae nor shraeye are new.
Yes some people shifted their votes, but MiX wasn't ever not the center of attention. Some people have been voting there very consistently, and others like EFHW continue to make meta arguments for why we should lynch him without expressing actual reads.Yes, I think he's town. I think he's a capable player and it would have been so easy to not bring all this attention on himself. Plus the way people refuse to move away from that wagon shows that scum isn't interested in alternatives./Seconded. Scum loves all this attention on MiX.Why are you defending MiX? Do you think he's town? If so, say it clearly, and give justification.
@Faust can you explain this because I’m confused. I’m sure it’s something i don’t understand. People did move away from the wagon including you. As of #444 only Debatepro, shraeye, raerae, arishipshape are on MiX. The quote above is at post #437. This is important because #SS uses this justification for his vote on Datswan.
Giving passes for activity is NOT a good idea. It's the flipside of lynching somebody for not being around. Dislike.Who is this respnding to? Are you under the impression that anyone is giviing MiX an activity pass? Because I didn't see anything like that.
I think his point is this:
If Faust is scum he will want to keep his options as open as possible, including the ability to claim to be some “neutral” role that is in some way unaffected by everything. That way he can explain his lack of townie behavior without him being scum. (I assume he has done this before, hence LLs question and DS’s reaction)
But he shut down that line of reasoning (theoretically) due to him saying he is team town.
This is something a scum player in general would avoid (the elimination of future strategic options) so DS is asserting that Faust is unlikely to be scum or a third party due to his claim.
However, I think scum could still claim town without it detrimenting then all that much, and a third party could still claim town and then come clean later, depending on the role. So it isn’t nearly as strong an argument as it could be IMO.
inb4 he's scum and I'm dead wrong. But my gut also says town. Plus the attention thing faust mentioned is a good point.Seems somewhat disingenuous considering I have expressed a scumread on you.
let's vote: DatSwan. I hope your reads are better this game than last @faust
Yeah, I have no idea why I was voting for her, though, and you probably don't have a great reason, either, so I don't think that means as much.......why you assuming Joseph's lack of reasons?
Also, why you not giving raerae and me vet-cred? We got 5 MVPs between us.
Silver, what changed?
Why does that make it disingenuous?inb4 he's scum and I'm dead wrong. But my gut also says town. Plus the attention thing faust mentioned is a good point.Seems somewhat disingenuous considering I have expressed a scumread on you.
let's vote: DatSwan. I hope your reads are better this game than last @faust
You hope that my reads are better than last time while at the same time supposedly having evidence that they are not all that great.Why does that make it disingenuous?inb4 he's scum and I'm dead wrong. But my gut also says town. Plus the attention thing faust mentioned is a good point.Seems somewhat disingenuous considering I have expressed a scumread on you.
let's vote: DatSwan. I hope your reads are better this game than last @faust
Nah, they were active before you ever came here.Yeah, I have no idea why I was voting for her, though, and you probably don't have a great reason, either, so I don't think that means as much.......why you assuming Joseph's lack of reasons?
Also, why you not giving raerae and me vet-cred? We got 5 MVPs between us.
In that case, I was just inactive for too long. So how many games did you play?
Yeah, I don't see anything wrong with those two things. I think it was meant as a reminder that you were wrong about me last game. But I didn't put more than a few seconds of thought into the post or the vote. Voting for DatSwan doesn't imply a strong scumread, or even any scumread, really. It only really shows that I want to move the game somewhere else.You hope that my reads are better than last time while at the same time supposedly having evidence that they are not all that great.Why does that make it disingenuous?inb4 he's scum and I'm dead wrong. But my gut also says town. Plus the attention thing faust mentioned is a good point.Seems somewhat disingenuous considering I have expressed a scumread on you.
let's vote: DatSwan. I hope your reads are better this game than last @faust
Nah, they were active before you ever came here.Okay, noted.
vote: arishipshape. Cluttering the thread.Here we have her policy voting.
raerae sounds like classic town!raerae, though I think I remember her being able to do that regardless of alignment.This post is very strange. She says she has a scum read and proceeds to vote for someone she explicitly does not have a scumread on. And there's a raerae comment that really doesn't say anything at all.
I got a fleeting scum vibe re: MiX. Sitting on it for now. Not worth jumping on the wagon.
vote: Dylan for pressure.
I reread the game so far and I find that I agree with what has been said about MiX being scummy.Continuing to throw shade at MiX without raising any new points or voting.
Developed some town reads, which is always helpful.
Holding off voting since it's so early, but once we have a rough consensus the day starts to feel over regardless.
PPE: silver
Here is more of her refusing to back up her reads with a vote.You're right, but now I want to look it over again.Well you can vote now.But also correct. It's not why you voted elsewhere, but is why I didn't vote.people just backed off because your vote total got too high too early.This is incorrect.
I reread the thread again (!). I wanted to pull together the various cases on MiX. Here is what I found (post numbers may be off by one because I display posts with most recent ones first and that changes the numbering for some reason).What is the point of this exercise, exactly?
Now what do I think?That would be a good question to answer but at the end of that post I still have no idea what EFHW thinks.
re: whether to lynch MiX, another consideration is the effect of having such an active unknown continuing in the game. We may have trouble considering anyone else.And further on EFHW gives reasons to vote MiX (which she still does not actually do) and then (finally) shares another scumread, but without voting.
But how about Lalight?i think at least one of silver/faust is scum, I've read nothing to move my vote from raerae, still think it's a good chance to catch scum there, DS sounds too inattentive which is weird for him
A few scummy things about this post.
Smashes ss's defence on me & other things
So it turns out I have too much homework tonight and won't be able to catch up. Tomorrow looks to be a little clearer so we'll see what happens. I'm sorry, I didn't realize I'd be this busy
And why am I a vet for that reason?Yeah, I have no idea why I was voting for her, though, and you probably don't have a great reason, either, so I don't think that means as much.......why you assuming Joseph's lack of reasons?
Also, why you not giving raerae and me vet-cred? We got 5 MVPs between us.
ss's defence on me almost splits the day in two, the before and after reply #444. This consolidates my townread on ss.What? All silver did in #444 was reiterate what I had already said.
@faust, do you think that EFHW behavior matches town!EFHW or scum!EFHW? Or could it relate to activity, thus null? I've never seen her do such a low effort game (sorry!), not sure what to think about it.Not sure yet. She has done a bunch of things that seem scummy but it's just so much that I am not sure scum would be that obvious. Then again I feel like I am somewhat decent at reading her, maybe it's just that she is scum and I can see it. I think I might want to revisit one of her older scum games.
@EFHW, why haven't you voted...ever? What are you waiting for, the perfect scumread?Apparently.
Anyway I don't think it's just activity. She has spent a considerable amount of energy on stuff like compiling things people found scummy about you, she just has nothing to show for it.Many research studies end up with negative results. Only the exciting findings are publishable.
ss's defence on me almost splits the day in two, the before and after reply #444. This consolidates my townread on ss.Smashes ss's defence on me & other things
@Debatepro, do you think ss is scummy for that defense?
True. But if you don't publish, your funding will run out... and you will be lynched.Anyway I don't think it's just activity. She has spent a considerable amount of energy on stuff like compiling things people found scummy about you, she just has nothing to show for it.Many research studies end up with negative results. Only the exciting findings are publishable.
Debatepro, do you think silverspawn is scum? What about me?
And only when I had an initial early perception/read and I felt like it was confirmed.This is dangerous. You should try to be wary of confirmation bias.
And only when I had an initial early perception/read and I felt like it was confirmed.This is dangerous. You should try to be wary of confirmation bias.
That is extraordinarily vague. Can you give some examples of cases where you found things dubious and shallow?And only when I had an initial early perception/read and I felt like it was confirmed.This is dangerous. You should try to be wary of confirmation bias.
Right i said that could be the case already. I haven't changed my vote and it would probably take a monumental blunder by someone or good arguments [claims, data, warrants] move me off MiX. However, I find several of the claims and arguments for him as dubious and shallow.
It's also surprising that some of the more experienced players aren't questioning some of these claims/arguments.
Especially, when MiX has played in a way that is often considered 'book' scum. A town wouldn't do that, a scum might be over the top about it because the "no scum would be so overt" is a compelling to most but a flawed argument.
Debatepro, do you think silverspawn is scum? What about me?As a newb, I kind of feel I only have enough energy and confidence in my ability be outspoken about one highly regarded and good player in D1. And only when I had an initial early perception/read and I felt like it was confirmed.
ss's defence on me almost splits the day in two, the before and after reply #444. This consolidates my townread on ss.What? All silver did in #444 was reiterate what I had already said.
Huh? Sure, you said my wagon is bad but not in the way ss did, he explained it further, in a way that I think everyone understands. If you have examples for you saying the same, show me.
Assuming first MiX is town.
If there are vets among the scum -- which is very likely -- are they likely to join the wagon?
I'm thinking no. At least I don't think I would want to join it. Instinctively, I would feel like this wagon won't lead to a lynch (too early, wagon too weird, case too weak) and so I have no reason to be on it. It looks better in future analysis if I'm not.
Assuming MiX is scum, it would take more guts to stay off it. Scum might now feel pressured to bus. This might be far fetched, but I'm thinking that I'll take the lack of vets on the wagon as evidence for MiX being town.
Other thought: if MiX is town, then this wagon pretty much gives everyone on the scum team full cover. (re: scum loves this wagon). No scum will feel any pressure right now. Which feels like it fits with how the game is going. They'll just stand there and be delighted in all the talk about MiX
I will not accept being the mislynch: I am very easily the most active player in the entire game, removing me from the game now is the biggest mistake town could make.Seconded. Scum loves all this attention on MiX.
DS, you didn't answer my question. But while you're at it, why don't you tell me what we should have done if faust had claimed "not town aligned" or "third party aligned" or whatever you think the other option was please?@DatSwan, seems like you missed this again.
faust: Someone pointed out I could not possibly be right about my restriction thing with faust because of the set up. Obviously correct, oversight on my end. To further on that point though, really really really weird for faust. LL came in and asked the money question ("faust - are you town aligned). So faust has no backdoor for being some third faction and fake claiming or whatever at this point... so super hard town lean on him as of now. I know that is gonna come off as some weak ass reasoning to players that have not played with faust, but just go like read... any other game ever.. it will make sense.
Anyway, let's talk EFHW. I am somewhat irritated by the fact that she hasn't really got much scrutiny at all.I agree her play is strange, and it has been years so maybe her meta has changed, but I feel like scum!EFHW would be trying harder? She never struck me as a "sit back and jump on wagons" sort of scum.
True. But if you don't publish, your funding will run out... and you will be lynched.+1
Random other thought: Does silver's mistaking raerae/shraeye for newbs mean we can exclude silver/raerae, silver/shraeye as possible scum pairings?Not sure I'm allowed to have an opinion on this but it does make sense. If you didn't know your scumpartners the first thing you would do would be to introduce yourself and your experience level.
@raerae, after ss's defence, do you still think your vote belongs on me? If so, why?Nope, doesn't change anything, especially since I'm one of the vets on the wagon. Also, the whole "defense" is hedgey. If you're scum your partners would bus but they wouldn't want to be on the wagon because it won't lead to a lynch but if you're town they'll want to be on it. It's just weird, not as strong as you want it to be for me.
Random other thought: Does silver's mistaking raerae/shraeye for newbs mean we can exclude silver/raerae, silver/shraeye as possible scum pairings?For now I guess, as it could be a double bluff
@DebatoPro and ari, you need to start figuring out that disagreeing with you is not scummy. Right now you are very frustrating to talk to.
@DebatoPro and ari, you need to start figuring out that disagreeing with you is not scummy. Right now you are very frustrating to talk to.This is a mis-characterization of my statements.
inb4 he's scum and I'm dead wrong. But my gut also says town. Plus the attention thing faust mentioned is a good point.Seems somewhat disingenuous considering I have expressed a scumread on you.
let's vote: DatSwan. I hope your reads are better this game than last @faust
I also wasn't making an appeal to authority. Debatepro said this and I want to make sure it doesn't become a thing anyone else believes. My post was just "look, there seems to be a near perfect split of players with all vets being off wagon, isn't that kind of interesting?" I didn't draw any conclusions about it except some weak theorizing about how the scum team would treat the wagon. It's kind of moot now since the observation wasn't even correct, but nonetheless, I didn't say and didn't mean to say that the wagon was bad because no vets are on it.
I also wasn't making an appeal to authority. Debatepro said this and I want to make sure it doesn't become a thing anyone else believes. My post was just "look, there seems to be a near perfect split of players with all vets being off wagon, isn't that kind of interesting?" I didn't draw any conclusions about it except some weak theorizing about how the scum team would treat the wagon. It's kind of moot now since the observation wasn't even correct, but nonetheless, I didn't say and didn't mean to say that the wagon was bad because no vets are on it.
That's how the "non-vets" took it especially when it's coupled with "weak theorizing".
Being incorrect about your "observation" is somewhat interesting, is it common for highly regarded and skilled players to make ~mistakes~ like that?I think it's safe to say that it's common for me but less common for most other vets. (Talking about these kinds of little mistakes in particular, not mistakes in general)
faust backs out of his philosophical ramblings, which was inevitable. Still have a slight scum read
also not sure how I feel about raerae. My townread on faust is growing (though that may just be because he's faust).
faust backs out of his philosophical ramblings, which was inevitable. Still have a slight scum readalso not sure how I feel about raerae. My townread on faust is growing (though that may just be because he's faust).
Did you mean scumread there?
answers debatepro
answers debatepro
You said you didn't want big arguments this game right? I suggest you don't push this, I doubt it helps anyone, especially you.
Does that mean that you can have both a townread and a scumread on someone at the same time, and whatever is stronger determines how you feel overall?
That would be using "townread" as in "evidence for towniness" and not as in "overall conclusion" as I use it.
ari (ariship? Airship?) continually hearkens back to the fact that he's used to 10 minute mafia. Seems a little bit suspicious to me "Hey guys, I know I'm messing up, but remember, I'm not used to this!" "Remember, I'm not used to this!" "Sorry, but remember, I'm not used to this."
See #496 Joseph replying to Shraeye who questioned you about your characterization about raeyae and shraeye's newbyness.I also wasn't making an appeal to authority. Debatepro said this and I want to make sure it doesn't become a thing anyone else believes. My post was just "look, there seems to be a near perfect split of players with all vets being off wagon, isn't that kind of interesting?" I didn't draw any conclusions about it except some weak theorizing about how the scum team would treat the wagon. It's kind of moot now since the observation wasn't even correct, but nonetheless, I didn't say and didn't mean to say that the wagon was bad because no vets are on it.
That's how the "non-vets" took it especially when it's coupled with "weak theorizing".
That may be how you took it. Why are you generalizing to other people?
Being incorrect about your "observation" is somewhat interesting, is it common for highly regarded and skilled players to make ~mistakes~ like that?I think it's safe to say that it's common for me but less common for most other vets. (Talking about these kinds of little mistakes in particular, not mistakes in general) But also -- I have to question you on your choice of words there. This post really feels to me like you're trying to paint some kind of narrative of low status people vs arrogant high status people. For one, you called vets "highly regarded and skilled?" Who says vets are highly regarded and skilled? That's certainly not true for every vet, and I'm sure I never said anything to that effect. Then you framed me making a mistake in a way that almost feels like you're trying to get me to admit that vets can make mistakes, as if that's a big deal. Status is a real thing and I think often toxic if it's in the background with everyone pretending like it's not there. If you have any particular point you want to make about status, I think it's best if you make it explicitly.
faust is usually an advocate for doing lots D1 (partly because they often get night killed N1)
at this point in my reading I'm down for a vote: rae wagon
at this point in my reading I'm down for a vote: rae wagon
Any particular reason?
at this point in my reading I'm down for a vote: rae wagon
Any particular reason?
Dunno, I like what everyone else has been saying. It's not strong nor solid by any means. Willing to change for something better.
You also suspect Lalight, who has been the main person suspecting raerae. I didn't finish my typing yet, but I'll jump to the end to say I'm not interested in voting raerae and vote:Lalight. No smoking gun, just preliminary results that I'll talk up hoping to do well at my annual review.at this point in my reading I'm down for a vote: rae wagon
Any particular reason?
Dunno, I like what everyone else has been saying. It's not strong nor solid by any means. Willing to change for something better.
answers debatepro
You said you didn't want big arguments this game right? I suggest you don't push this, I doubt it helps anyone, especially you.
@DatSwan, why is your vote still on mail-mi?
No-one interested in LaLight?Possibly. They aren't high on my town list
I should mention the reasons I found 339 scummy. 1. It's setting up lynches with the silver/faust thing. 2. "good chance to catch scum there" clangs as scummy to me. 3. DatSwan explained his inattentiveness as due to real life issues (sickness and work). I think LaLight is being inattentive himself.
So for fun let's look at the two biggest wagons.
looks at MiX and raerae's wagons
... out of N1 3v12 then 3v11.Revised... 3v9 than 3v8.
I'm sure this is a stupid question, but is there any advantage to going to the end of d1 with a no lynch, especially when there isn't enough of a consensus? I mean i'd rather come out of N1 3v12 then 3v11.
Is the value of not accidentally lynching a towny worth the information gained in after the n1 kill?
Literally responding to youGiving passes for activity is NOT a good idea. It's the flipside of lynching somebody for not being around. Dislike.Who is this respnding to? Are you under the impression that anyone is giviing MiX an activity pass? Because I didn't see anything like that.
I will not accept being the mislynch: I am very easily the most active player in the entire game, removing me from the game now is the biggest mistake town could make.Seconded. Scum loves all this attention on MiX.
Yeah, I have no idea why I was voting for her, though, and you probably don't have a great reason, either, so I don't think that means as much.......why you assuming Joseph's lack of reasons?
Also, why you not giving raerae and me vet-cred? We got 5 MVPs between us.
In that case, I was just inactive for too long. So how many games did you play?Silver, what changed?
Nothing changed, I was always and am still null on faust this game.
datswan is making no sense in his "claiming town" argument against raerae. Not sure if it makes him scum.I also think it makes no sense; but I don't think it makes him scum. I feelin' town on that man; I'm often confused but I keep getting the "I'm town"-flavor of confusing from him.
@MiX I'm still trying to understand what exactly is going on in this game. My reread was more like a detailed skim. I'm excited to get to day 2 so I can start with a fresh day.Wow, MiX got suddenly super excited when you suggested LaLight.
he knows my play.
he knows my play.
in my defense, it's been at least 2 years since I've played with you.
he knows my play.
in my defense, it's been at least 2 years since I've played with you.
Doesn't change the fact that you didn't have a reason.
Also, WHY DON'T YOU REMEMBER EXACTLY HOW I WAS??? I THOUGHT WE HAD SOMETHING!!
Hey now; every marriage is an opportunity in disguise.he knows my play.
in my defense, it's been at least 2 years since I've played with you.
Doesn't change the fact that you didn't have a reason.
Also, WHY DON'T YOU REMEMBER EXACTLY HOW I WAS??? I THOUGHT WE HAD SOMETHING!!
true. i'm kinda skirting through this day on very little time. I'm much busier right now than I expected to be. I'm also just kinda waiting for a new day to start off fresh.
Also, you're married.
he knows my play.
in my defense, it's been at least 2 years since I've played with you.
Doesn't change the fact that you didn't have a reason.
Also, WHY DON'T YOU REMEMBER EXACTLY HOW I WAS??? I THOUGHT WE HAD SOMETHING!!
true. i'm kinda skirting through this day on very little time. I'm much busier right now than I expected to be. I'm also just kinda waiting for a new day to start off fresh.
Also, you're married.
he knows my play.
in my defense, it's been at least 2 years since I've played with you.
Doesn't change the fact that you didn't have a reason.
Also, WHY DON'T YOU REMEMBER EXACTLY HOW I WAS??? I THOUGHT WE HAD SOMETHING!!
true. i'm kinda skirting through this day on very little time. I'm much busier right now than I expected to be. I'm also just kinda waiting for a new day to start off fresh.
Also, you're married.
Details, details.
But also, since you really haven't had the time to do some sincere scumhunting and don't have strong reads, surely you wouldn't mind not voting today?
So let's see.
Strong Town Read: Debatepro, arishipshape
Mild Town Read: EFHW, MiX
Null: faust, mail-mi, Uncleeurope, DatSwan, Joseph2302, shraeye
Mild scum: raerae, LaLight
Only putting Lalight at mild scum because he's so very absent, and afaik he prefers playing town to scum. Alignment-dependent low motivation could be a thing. Especially since he feels similar about the kind of content as I do; in that situation you have less motivation to do anything as scum, because you can probably get away with it, and you don't mind if you don't really keep track of what's happening so much. I distinctly remember feeling that way in past games.
Actually, that sounds kind of convincing. Anyone want to vote: LaLight?
So for fun let's look at the two biggest wagons. Obviously these aren't the only lunch options but we need to start narrowing this down.Vote: raerae
Cases boiled down below, if I've totally misread something please feel free to correct.
On MiX: Debatepro, shraeye, raerae, arishipshape
Debatepro: voted MiX on #71, hasn't moved since, doesn't like the types of questions MiX is asking, sees MiX as trying to throw suspicion on nearly everybody else, some of this reads like confirmation bias but some seems legit, doesn't read scum to me
shraeye: voted MiX on #111, case is for calling out some people and not other, being both worried and not worried about votes on him, also mimicking "town" behavior as described by ss
ari: first voted in #51 for RVS, voted again in #81 for buddying and later for being cool w/being at L-2, unvoted at #156, voted again sometime (there were a bunch of votes and unvotes) this time for buddying and painting ari as defensive, seems too impulsive to be scum
rae: case and final vote is #329, shows knowledge of shraeye's intent pre-game
On me: LaLight, Joseph2302, mail-mi
LaLight: voted #333 for asking questions and doing no scumhunting, has not expanded since
Joseph & mail-mi: no explanation
I think the wagon on me is the scummiest since none of them have given reason for voting for me.Why is not giving reasons scummy? Also have you given any reasons why people should not be voting for you?
I am not giving MiX an activity pass. I am merely saying that if MiX is town, which should still be more likely for everyone involved, then scum is very happy to not have the attention shift elsewhere.Literally responding to youGiving passes for activity is NOT a good idea. It's the flipside of lynching somebody for not being around. Dislike.Who is this respnding to? Are you under the impression that anyone is giviing MiX an activity pass? Because I didn't see anything like that.I will not accept being the mislynch: I am very easily the most active player in the entire game, removing me from the game now is the biggest mistake town could make.Seconded. Scum loves all this attention on MiX.
I'm sure this is a stupid question, but is there any advantage to going to the end of d1 with a no lynch, especially when there isn't enough of a consensus? I mean i'd rather come out of N1 3v12 then 3v11.
Is the value of not accidentally lynching a towny worth the information gained in after the n1 kill?
Kid woke up mid-post so I kind of had to rush that. We've got 7 people on those two wagons, while it's possible that all seven of them are town, that just seems unlikely. Basically I'm trying to narrow the field here. I think the wagon on me is the scummiest since none of them have given reason for voting for me. I'm going to vote: mail-mi, he's not giving reasons AND he knows my play. I'm less cool with a LL lynch simply because you're advocating it, no offense, just can't vote at the recommendation of somebody I think is scummy.
Faust, the voice of reasonI think the wagon on me is the scummiest since none of them have given reason for voting for me.Why is not giving reasons scummy? Also have you given any reasons why people should not be voting for you?
I will be here at the deadline tomorrowSame I think
Faust, the voice of reasonI think the wagon on me is the scummiest since none of them have given reason for voting for me.Why is not giving reasons scummy? Also have you given any reasons why people should not be voting for you?
I agree that people don't seem scummy for just voting rae
I will be here at the deadline tomorrowSame I think
and yeah, I am not sure I remember vividly mail-mi playstyle, but he looks very different from what i remember him being town
i think I know mail-mi better than sheeping EFHW into voting me
vote: mail-mi
......why you assuming Joseph's lack of reasons?
Now you sound like Awaclus.I think the wagon on me is the scummiest since none of them have given reason for voting for me.Why is not giving reasons scummy? Also have you given any reasons why people should not be voting for you?
But also, since you really haven't had the time to do some sincere scumhunting and don't have strong reads, surely you wouldn't mind not voting today?
But srsly, why is the raerae post scummy? I'm not seeing it.Maybe he's trying to prove his point by voting without a reason.
Awaclus is annoying, but there is some substance to what he says.Now you sound like Awaclus.I think the wagon on me is the scummiest since none of them have given reason for voting for me.Why is not giving reasons scummy? Also have you given any reasons why people should not be voting for you?
In fact, the more I think about it, the more I see a shraeye!raerae scum team...just look at their interactions:Meh. I think their interactions stem more from the fact that they are a RL team than a scumteam.
raerae did announce her intention to be hard on Shraeye before role pms went out.In fact, the more I think about it, the more I see a shraeye!raerae scum team...just look at their interactions:Meh. I think their interactions stem more from the fact that they are a RL team than a scumteam.
But srsly, why is the raerae post scummy? I'm not seeing it.Something about the half-sarcastic-half-reready style really rubs me the wrong way. All she wants to say is "the wagon on me sucks because people don't have reasons" but she wraps it in pointless rehashes of what other people said.
raerae did announce her intention to be hard on Shraeye before role pms went out.In fact, the more I think about it, the more I see a shraeye!raerae scum team...just look at their interactions:Meh. I think their interactions stem more from the fact that they are a RL team than a scumteam.
I will concede that the Shraeye/MiX qt theory is odd.raerae did announce her intention to be hard on Shraeye before role pms went out.In fact, the more I think about it, the more I see a shraeye!raerae scum team...just look at their interactions:Meh. I think their interactions stem more from the fact that they are a RL team than a scumteam.
But she's not, all of that interaction seems...fake. Like they're trying to interact because pre-game they said they would. In reality, they're interacting with me, raerae in particular seems to USE shraeye to get a scumread on me. Eh, still don't like them.
I will be here at the deadline tomorrowSame I think
I must say that I don’t agree with the raerae read. The only thing that makes me think all you people are onto something is her wagon summary post, which looked a bit too biased for my liking, but I think it probably comes more from a place of frustration than scumminess? I don’t know. I just trust her more, which may be misplaced trust... I would strongly prefer a different candidate for the death today.
I also think MiX’s tunnel on Shraeye is problematic. My reads on shraeye lean town as well, I think he disagrees with me a lot, but I still think he is coming from a town perspective. And I doubt MiX will be able to pull together a shraeye case strong enough to get a lynch today due to my understanding of our group advice of now.
So basically, if it ain’t the two of them then who is it? Because I am not on board with that theory at all.
I fear I can make these cases on everyone now...so please, destroy this and shraeye's case so I can improve as a player (or sheep if they're actually good :P).It does seem to me that you are having to imagine a lot of unproven things for your theory to work. It's easy to make up stories that feel right and startling when they turn out to not be true at all. .
I fear I can make these cases on everyone now...so please, destroy this and shraeye's case so I can improve as a player (or sheep if they're actually good :P).It does seem to me that you are having to imagine a lot of unproven things for your theory to work. It's easy to make up stories that feel right and startling when they turn out to not be true at all. .
- raerae asks for shraeye's reason for voting me, he doesn't give it, she's annoyed; this is so easily orchestrated by two scum wanting to look like they're interacting with each other, but really, why did raerae have to ask that? There's no way shraeye would simply answer, this was a waste of time.This is a natural interaction, there is no reason to believe it was orchestrated. raerae's asking is meh, but this does not point towards them being a team.
- pushes for a shraeye!MiX scumteam, votes shraeye first then me; all the talk about shraeye's suspicious in itself: sure they know each other IRL but "he's dangerous as scum, exceedingly dangerous" is...excessive, then there's the "if shraeye flips scum MiX's next" which could very well be "if my scumpartner dies let's mislynch someone".raerae does not early D1 make the plan to bus shraeye just to be able to lynch you afterwards. That conspiracy theory level analysis. You are taking what she said and try to fit it in your narrative but you don't consider alternative explanations.
- keeps throwing shade on me while voting for shraeye (#191 is a great example of this); easily explainable if you see that she's preparing to jump on my wagon.I don't see a reason for scum to "prepare" jumping on your wagon. They can just do so if they want to, especially early D1. And again, you say something is explainable by your theory, but this is not actually evidence that your theory is true. Trump being president may be explainable by the world being secretly controlled by lizard people.
- more interaction between them that leads nowhere, now about shraeye's (new) case on me, admits he's right; a much better question to ask here would be "why did you pick 3 people to guess?" but that would make shraeye have to answer it; he eventually does, but not due to raerae.shraeye as any alignment knows that as soon as he posts those 3 names, he's going to be questioned on why he chose them. A potential scumpartner would not need to avoid that question.
- votes for me, the tipping point? My interaction with shraeye...which would at best point to a shraeye!MiX team. She points out more, but most of it is sheeping other's cases...although they're right, I don't like how she swapped BECAUSE of a slip that could only exist in shraeye!MiX, for me this was an excuse to ditch her vote on shraeye and start pushing my wagon. This is all in #329.If raerae decided to bus a scumpartner, then there is no real reason for her to back out here. It's not like the shraeye wagon got any kind of traction, she could have continued voting there safely.
- tells faust shraeye's case depended on me being scum...then why did she vote for shraeye? Again, this feels like creating interaction out of thin air.Not sure what this is referring to.
- says her case on me is (and I quote) "shows knowledge of shraeye's intent pre-game". And...? Did she forget everything else she said? At this point she's voting for me because...what, the only person on shraeye's wagon is me? I would totally take that opportunity of scum bussing each other and lynch...the most dangerous one (note how, in her PoV, we're both bussing); she already admited shraeye's more dangerous...my answer? She wants an active player out of the game and a player whose meta she knows in.Meh, if she really thought you are both scum then it makes sense for town!her to jump on the bigger wagon.
Don't like how big the raerae wagon got, if she was scum she wouldn't leave shraeye's wagon since, as faust said, raerae's case on me implies shraeye's scummy, then there's WIFOM but still.
Thank you for your answer faust, I definitly went too fast against raerae...there's just one thing I disagree: if you have 2 scumreads, you should vote for the one that has LESS votes; that way, you can start convincing town to vote for them, whereas the other person is easier to push...you should, of course, swap to the bigger wagon when deadline approaches, but that wasn't the case. This is a playstyle thing, however.Well I certainly did not mean to convince you that raerae is town...
Actually what's making me decide raerae's town now is this...Don't like how big the raerae wagon got, if she was scum she wouldn't leave shraeye's wagon since, as faust said, raerae's case on me implies shraeye's scummy, then there's WIFOM but still.
I was sane at the time; now I see why this is absolutely correct.
What do you think about shraeye? I don't remember hearing your thoughts on him...actually you said them in #476, do you stand by it?
Day 1 ends February 01, 2019, 05:00:00 pm. That's in about 42 hours.
Can you please say why shraeye and raerae are towny? Just saying that they are doesn't help me.
I think the wagon on me is the scummiest since none of them have given reason for voting for me.Why is not giving reasons scummy? Also have you given any reasons why people should not be voting for you?
But srsly, why is the raerae post scummy? I'm not seeing it.Something about the half-sarcastic-half-reready style really rubs me the wrong way. All she wants to say is "the wagon on me sucks because people don't have reasons" but she wraps it in pointless rehashes of what other people said.
Also raerae was my early gut scumread and I always regret it when I back away from those.
Thank you for your answer faust, I definitly went too fast against raerae...there's just one thing I disagree: if you have 2 scumreads, you should vote for the one that has LESS votes; that way, you can start convincing town to vote for them, whereas the other person is easier to push...you should, of course, swap to the bigger wagon when deadline approaches, but that wasn't the case. This is a playstyle thing, however.This logic doesn't convince me that rae is town
Actually what's making me decide raerae's town now is this...Don't like how big the raerae wagon got, if she was scum she wouldn't leave shraeye's wagon since, as faust said, raerae's case on me implies shraeye's scummy, then there's WIFOM but still.
I was sane at the time; now I see why this is absolutely correct.
What do you think about shraeye? I don't remember hearing your thoughts on him...actually you said them in #476, do you stand by it?
Thank you for your answer faust, I definitly went too fast against raerae...there's just one thing I disagree: if you have 2 scumreads, you should vote for the one that has LESS votes; that way, you can start convincing town to vote for them, whereas the other person is easier to push...you should, of course, swap to the bigger wagon when deadline approaches, but that wasn't the case. This is a playstyle thing, however.This logic doesn't convince me that rae is town
Actually what's making me decide raerae's town now is this...Don't like how big the raerae wagon got, if she was scum she wouldn't leave shraeye's wagon since, as faust said, raerae's case on me implies shraeye's scummy, then there's WIFOM but still.
I was sane at the time; now I see why this is absolutely correct.
What do you think about shraeye? I don't remember hearing your thoughts on him...actually you said them in #476, do you stand by it?
The wagon wasn't that big, so no need to get off it
Can you please say why shraeye and raerae are towny? Just saying that they are doesn't help me.
You've already said yourself you think I'm townie (#348 for sure).I think the wagon on me is the scummiest since none of them have given reason for voting for me.Why is not giving reasons scummy? Also have you given any reasons why people should not be voting for you?
Because RVS voting isn't how D1 should end. Because sheeping RVS isn't how D1 should end. We have enough content that everybody voting should be able to give a reason by now. Are you actually cool with 2.5 people voting without giving much, if any, reason for doing so? We should all be able to defend our votes by now.
I don't know how to do that, I've never been great at defense in this game. I think you should make up your mind over whether or not you want to vote for me and I'd be suspicious as hell if me saying I'm town would be enough of an argument to sway you. If you have any specific questions you want me to ask I'm happy to but I'm not going to stand here and scream how townie I am, that isn't productive conversation and shouldn't influence anybody.But srsly, why is the raerae post scummy? I'm not seeing it.Something about the half-sarcastic-half-reready style really rubs me the wrong way. All she wants to say is "the wagon on me sucks because people don't have reasons" but she wraps it in pointless rehashes of what other people said.
Also raerae was my early gut scumread and I always regret it when I back away from those.
It wasn't sarcastic and it rushed because my kid woke up mid-post, I probably just shouldn't have posted it until I had actual time to work on it but I feel like some information is better than none. Like right now, we're at the breakfast table and today, for the first time in history, he's opting not to finish his oatmeal so instead of the 30 minutes I'd usually get to do something (today, respond to the two pages that happened overnight) I'm cutting this short and posting so I can attend to him.
Kid woke up mid-post so I kind of had to rush that. We've got 7 people on those two wagons, while it's possible that all seven of them are town, that just seems unlikely. Basically I'm trying to narrow the field here. I think the wagon on me is the scummiest since none of them have given reason for voting for me. I'm going to vote: mail-mi, he's not giving reasons AND he knows my play. I'm less cool with a LL lynch simply because you're advocating it, no offense, just can't vote at the recommendation of somebody I think is scummy.
Why leave a wagon of someone you think is skummy to join Wagon of one other person (who i think you also think is skummy)?
mail-mi not voting is one of the worst things he could do this day, a replacement's vote has a lot of value, he can read the game free of biases, thus getting a clearer vision on what happened; this obviously helps when scumhunting.
Sheeping and voting without reasons is very much how mail-mi has played in the past. Maybe you are thinking of someone else?
Kid woke up mid-post so I kind of had to rush that. We've got 7 people on those two wagons, while it's possible that all seven of them are town, that just seems unlikely. Basically I'm trying to narrow the field here. I think the wagon on me is the scummiest since none of them have given reason for voting for me. I'm going to vote: mail-mi, he's not giving reasons AND he knows my play. I'm less cool with a LL lynch simply because you're advocating it, no offense, just can't vote at the recommendation of somebody I think is scummy.
Why leave a wagon of someone you think is skummy to join Wagon of one other person (who i think you also think is skummy)?
Because I know mail-mi better than I know MiX. He sheeped a vote which isn't like him. He wouldn't give a reason.
Sheeping and voting without reasons is very much how mail-mi has played in the past. Maybe you are thinking of someone else?
Well i have changed my mind about preferred lynch based on the last page and a half:
Vote:RaeRae
Well i have changed my mind about preferred lynch based on the last page and a half:
Vote:RaeRae
Based. On. What.
Well i have changed my mind about preferred lynch based on the last page and a half:
Vote:RaeRae
Based. On. What.
The. Last. Page. And. Half.
I'm a little concerned by the fact that we are about 23 hours away from the deadline and still don't have a clear lynch. I'm keeping my vote on mix but I will switch to the biggest wagon at the last second if it would prevent a no-lynch.
Well i have changed my mind about preferred lynch based on the last page and a half:
Vote:RaeRae
Based. On. What.
The. Last. Page. And. Half.
Well i have changed my mind about preferred lynch based on the last page and a half:
Vote:RaeRae
Based. On. What.
The. Last. Page. And. Half.
But what do you think is scummy? You're doing town zero favors by not explaining anything. If you're town and your the NK, what did you leave behind to help town?
I'm so frustrated by all the people not explaining votes. It's dumb play at best, scum at worst, and clearly you can't trust me because I'm so scummy for no reason anybody but faust seems to be able to point to. MiX is too eager to jump to any wagon other than his that looks viable.Question: Don't votes have to be bolded to count?
Vote: MiX
PPE MiX: I said what I said and I meant what I meant. Don't put words in my mouth.
I'm so frustrated by all the people not explaining votes. It's dumb play at best, scum at worst, and clearly you can't trust me because I'm so scummy for no reason anybody but faust seems to be able to point to. MiX is too eager to jump to any wagon other than his that looks viable.
Vote: MiX
PPE MiX: I said what I said and I meant what I meant. Don't put words in my mouth.
how else will be move on?
I'm a little concerned by the fact that we are about 23 hours away from the deadline and still don't have a clear lynch. I'm keeping my vote on mix but I will switch to the biggest wagon at the last second if it would prevent a no-lynch.I think, "why are we moving so fast, we have plenty of time" disease got to us early on. Of course here we are with very little time and a lot of arguing on our hands. Did scum spread this disease? Did it just pop up? I don't know.
Well i have changed my mind about preferred lynch based on the last page and a half:
Vote:RaeRae
I'm a little concerned by the fact that we are about 23 hours away from the deadline and still don't have a clear lynch. I'm keeping my vote on mix but I will switch to the biggest wagon at the last second if it would prevent a no-lynch.I think, "why are we moving so fast, we have plenty of time" disease got to us early on. Of course here we are with very little time and a lot of arguing on our hands. Did scum spread this disease? Did it just pop up? I don't know.
Quote from: somebody, I'm on my phoneWhy is not giving reasons scummy? Also have you given any reasons why people should not be voting for you?
Because RVS voting isn't how D1 should end. Because sheeping RVS isn't how D1 should end. We have enough content that everybody voting should be able to give a reason by now. Are you actually cool with 2.5 people voting without giving much, if any, reason for doing so? We should all be able to defend our votes by now.
Vote: MiX
Mix is voting for LaLight for not contributing.
Mix is voting for LaLight for not contributing.
Wait a minute...when did I say this? Where did you get this from? Are you coming up with things on the fly now?
Unless I have the worst memory, I haven't actually stated why I'm voting for LaLight...
Mix is voting for LaLight for not contributing.
Wait a minute...when did I say this? Where did you get this from? Are you coming up with things on the fly now?
Unless I have the worst memory, I haven't actually stated why I'm voting for LaLight...
That seems to be going around a lot lately.
Voting without reason.
Who wants to talk about this:
Mix is voting for LaLight for not contributing but giving mail-mi a pass for the same reason.
Recall that miX passing over Dylan was the reason I got on him in the first place. That is two distinct inconsistencies on the same player.
Wanna come back to this wagon?
My bad, you have not. So, reasons for LaLight?Mix is voting for LaLight for not contributing.
Wait a minute...when did I say this? Where did you get this from? Are you coming up with things on the fly now?
Unless I have the worst memory, I haven't actually stated why I'm voting for LaLight...
Voting without reason.LL is going to jump to the MiX or RR vote and push the numbers to 5 or 4. Why are you are you on Ari and how would you rank scummyness of MiX,LL, and RR respectively? I’d like to know before LL jumps... seems like a fair request if you are town.
Vote: MiX
Really? I thought the other vote was a joke...why would scum care about pushing a wagon? They push themselves anyway. Especially at this stage of the day.
And if I were truly scum, how easy would it be for me to jump at your wagon? Ah, dammit, you can say I tried with that case...
Not sure what else to say here...the newbies are STILL on me, I forgot why at this point.
If anyone wants to ask me questions to assert their scumreads on me, feel free to do so, I have nothing to defend against at this point.
PPE: mail-mi has less time, it's not exactly fair to compare the two. I have to admit I didn't reread mail-mi, will do so.
I just reread Lalight. He seems very similar to what he was in the last normal game that was just completed, Czech mafia I think it was? Anyway he was scum in that game. I am comfortable with my vote where it is.
I just reread Lalight. He seems very similar to what he was in the last normal game that was just completed, Czech mafia I think it was? Anyway he was scum in that game. I am comfortable with my vote where it is.Similar how?
Neither do you, so vote: mail-miI just reread Lalight. He seems very similar to what he was in the last normal game that was just completed, Czech mafia I think it was? Anyway he was scum in that game. I am comfortable with my vote where it is.
He also just doesn't have a lot of content. Lots of one-liners with no real meanings, lots of stances with little-to-no reasoning.
I just reread Lalight. He seems very similar to what he was in the last normal game that was just completed, Czech mafia I think it was? Anyway he was scum in that game. I am comfortable with my vote where it is.Similar how?
that's fair.Neither do you, so vote: mail-miI just reread Lalight. He seems very similar to what he was in the last normal game that was just completed, Czech mafia I think it was? Anyway he was scum in that game. I am comfortable with my vote where it is.
He also just doesn't have a lot of content. Lots of one-liners with no real meanings, lots of stances with little-to-no reasoning.
If you're advocating a lurker lynch, please say so explicitly. Everyone on the LaLight wagon is only voting for lurking, but makes it seem as though there was more to it.I just reread Lalight. He seems very similar to what he was in the last normal game that was just completed, Czech mafia I think it was? Anyway he was scum in that game. I am comfortable with my vote where it is.Similar how?
not a lot of interactions with anybody. Also ongoing game reasons.
If you're advocating a lurker lynch, please say so explicitly. Everyone on the LaLight wagon is only voting for lurking, but makes it seem as though there was more to it.I just reread Lalight. He seems very similar to what he was in the last normal game that was just completed, Czech mafia I think it was? Anyway he was scum in that game. I am comfortable with my vote where it is.Similar how?
not a lot of interactions with anybody. Also ongoing game reasons.
Voting without reason.
I want LaLight's answer to my question before I can solidify my case.
Why are you voting for ari? That's useless now.
How about i claim?This is a closed setup, noone can judge better whether you should claim than you yourself.
How about i claim?This is a closed setup, noone can judge better whether you should claim than you yourself.
I have a feeling i became a convenient mislynch because my meta changedHow did your meta change? Besides being less active.
I have a feeling i became a convenient mislynch because my meta changedHow did your meta change? Besides being less active.
I have a feeling i became a convenient mislynch because my meta changedHow did your meta change? Besides being less active.
WhateverWay to prevent me from doing an awesome town fakeclaim as your Mason and look at all the funny reactions from scum!
I an a Mason, and i wanted my partner to answer my question about claiming, but they are not online at this time
WhateverWay to prevent me from doing an awesome town fakeclaim as your Mason and look at all the funny reactions from scum!
I an a Mason, and i wanted my partner to answer my question about claiming, but they are not online at this time
I certainly agree. I used to be able to spot scum!you pretty well and in the last game (where I was the Mason, ha) I didn't really see it until the end.I have a feeling i became a convenient mislynch because my meta changedHow did your meta change? Besides being less active.
Well, also my town and scum playstyle became more similar, I think. Earlier when i was town i was obv!town practically always
I don’t think it’s fair to think it is an inevitability that either MiX or raerae will die here, if we wanted to we could get someone else to die.True. but I don't think we want to.
I want to share reads before we go into the night, but i want to wait for my partner to come first, so I want out them. while actually this should be quite obvious, but stillUh, no need to share your reads, you can just tell them to your partner at night.
I want to share reads before we go into the night, but i want to wait for my partner to come first, so I want out them. while actually this should be quite obvious, but stillUh, no need to share your reads, you can just tell them to your partner at night.
I want to share reads before we go into the night, but i want to wait for my partner to come first, so I want out them. while actually this should be quite obvious, but stillUh, no need to share your reads, you can just tell them to your partner at night.
Who else do you have a scumread on? (Or as you would put it, who's a scumbuddy with me?)
Thoughts on LaLight DatSwan raerae shraeye EFHW in no particular order?
Well looking at wagons.
LaLight was never based on much of anything. We do have prefectly fine wagons on MiX and raerae. So... if those are both town, then I don't see the need for scum to hop on LaLight. But... looking at the LaLight wagon, those folks on there aren't exactly a very townie bunch. I think the chance of scum being there is pretty decent. Which in turn is a point in favor of one of MiX/raerae being scum.
Vote: raerae
And will vote for either over mix
Well i have changed my mind about preferred lynch based on the last page and a half:Interesting choice to change your mind
Vote:RaeRae
I. Refuse. To. Vote. For. Raerae. Today.If raerae is lynched and flips scum, this could be an obvious partner interaction
I. Refuse. To. Vote. For. Raerae. Today.If raerae is lynched and flips scum, this could be an obvious partner interaction
Scum would rather vote town than scum because obviously they don't want their partners dead.I. Refuse. To. Vote. For. Raerae. Today.If raerae is lynched and flips scum, this could be an obvious partner interaction
Why would I be that blatant if we were partners? That doesn’t even make sense to me.
LL is mason, so that's one of the big wagons off the table.Why do you exclude MiX from this list?
And we know that {mail-mi, raerae} aren't LL's mason partner (as LL suggested them as lynch candidates)
I think {raerae, DatSwan, mail-mi} are the 3 I'd prefer for today
None of them seem towny to me (mail-mi would be my least preferred of the 3, as it's mainly for anti-town lurking)
PPE: 1
Good question. If I get to it I'll reread him (not now though); right now I don't really have a read. Will probably vote him over mix too, though.
I guess I could do MiX but not my top 3 choices.LL is mason, so that's one of the big wagons off the table.Why do you exclude MiX from this list?
And we know that {mail-mi, raerae} aren't LL's mason partner (as LL suggested them as lynch candidates)
I think {raerae, DatSwan, mail-mi} are the 3 I'd prefer for today
None of them seem towny to me (mail-mi would be my least preferred of the 3, as it's mainly for anti-town lurking)
PPE: 1
Could be an obvious partner tell if MiX flips scum.
Do you think he is town?I guess I could do MiX but not my top 3 choices.LL is mason, so that's one of the big wagons off the table.Why do you exclude MiX from this list?
And we know that {mail-mi, raerae} aren't LL's mason partner (as LL suggested them as lynch candidates)
I think {raerae, DatSwan, mail-mi} are the 3 I'd prefer for today
None of them seem towny to me (mail-mi would be my least preferred of the 3, as it's mainly for anti-town lurking)
PPE: 1
Could be an obvious partner tell if MiX flips scum.
MiX has contributed a lot and is clearly new to this format, and so I think lots of things that people have called scummy may just be be newbie
Good question. If I get to it I'll reread him (not now though); right now I don't really have a read. Will probably vote him over mix too, though.
Well I would urge you to make your assessment sooner rather than later, just so we can have as much time as possible before it’s killing time.
silver, can you explain why you are so opposed to lynching MiX?
I think the main reason for my read is that he was under so much scrutiny and yet never felt scummy to me.So the main reason he's towny is that he is not scummy? Sorry, somehow that fails to convince me.
is it an hour till the deadline?!I thought it's in 9 hours.
can we have a vote count please
I am kind of confused by usage of [ time]It's not confusing really, it shows the time in your time zone...
Null slightly towards townDo you think he is town?I guess I could do MiX but not my top 3 choices.LL is mason, so that's one of the big wagons off the table.Why do you exclude MiX from this list?
And we know that {mail-mi, raerae} aren't LL's mason partner (as LL suggested them as lynch candidates)
I think {raerae, DatSwan, mail-mi} are the 3 I'd prefer for today
None of them seem towny to me (mail-mi would be my least preferred of the 3, as it's mainly for anti-town lurking)
PPE: 1
Could be an obvious partner tell if MiX flips scum.
MiX has contributed a lot and is clearly new to this format, and so I think lots of things that people have called scummy may just be be newbie
yeah, it shows 5 pm, which is in an hour in my time zoneI am kind of confused by usage of [ time]It's not confusing really, it shows the time in your time zone...
Which is actually more confusing when I've spent 5 years using forum time. And so now I don't have to add the 5hrsI am kind of confused by usage of [ time]It's not confusing really, it shows the time in your time zone...
Do forum posts show the proper time for you in the header? If not, you have not set your forum profile to the right offset, which your can change in Profile -> Look and Layout.yeah, it shows 5 pm, which is in an hour in my time zoneI am kind of confused by usage of [ time]It's not confusing really, it shows the time in your time zone...
Do forum posts show the proper time for you in the header? If not, you have not set your forum profile to the right offset, which your can change in Profile -> Look and Layout.yeah, it shows 5 pm, which is in an hour in my time zoneI am kind of confused by usage of [ time]It's not confusing really, it shows the time in your time zone...
also also Joseph was the ony one questioning my claim. which is making him townier in my eyesI kind of wish you had waited to point that out until we got more reactions.
I am 99% sure I'll be here for the deadline. My vote stands, although I am wondering whether I should switch to prevent a no-lynch. I thought lynching was almost always superior to not lynching? Anyone care to explain why no-lynching might be better than lynching?In general, it is always good to consolidate votes as deadline approaches. Since you will be here at deadline, you will know if a switch just to prevent no-lynch is needed. DatSwan gave a comprehensive explanation of why no lynch is bad. Why are thinking it is maybe better?
I'm perplexed by the instant acceptance LaLight's claim has gotten. When faust and DatSwan were masons, they were suspected for Days. True, it was mostly scum trying to spin the mason fakeclaim story, but I don't think I've ever seen faust assign the IC label so easily.When you think about it, it's really quite obvious that LaLight is telling the truth.
*thinks for a few seconds*I'm perplexed by the instant acceptance LaLight's claim has gotten. When faust and DatSwan were masons, they were suspected for Days. True, it was mostly scum trying to spin the mason fakeclaim story, but I don't think I've ever seen faust assign the IC label so easily.When you think about it, it's really quite obvious that LaLight is telling the truth.
I would not oppose MiX lynch as well, it's just i want to give them a passPasses are for Disneyland.
Think a bit longer. I am not going to say more.*thinks for a few seconds*I'm perplexed by the instant acceptance LaLight's claim has gotten. When faust and DatSwan were masons, they were suspected for Days. True, it was mostly scum trying to spin the mason fakeclaim story, but I don't think I've ever seen faust assign the IC label so easily.When you think about it, it's really quite obvious that LaLight is telling the truth.
Why?
I never will understand this written-in-stone rule that one must lynch. If the only alternatives look nothing but town to you, I don't see the incentive to lay your hammer on the altar of the all-powerful Lynch. But if you think there's scum there, hammer like there's no tomorrow.I am 99% sure I'll be here for the deadline. My vote stands, although I am wondering whether I should switch to prevent a no-lynch. I thought lynching was almost always superior to not lynching? Anyone care to explain why no-lynching might be better than lynching?In general, it is always good to consolidate votes as deadline approaches. Since you will be here at deadline, you will know if a switch just to prevent no-lynch is needed. DatSwan gave a comprehensive explanation of why no lynch is bad. Why are thinking it is maybe better?
Hmm, let me think about the basics of mafia. Town has numbers. Scum has info. Scum doesn't want town to have info... Gee, I wonder who the scum here is? Basically, even if it's obvious, I don't want anyone to get away with not giving info to the town, period. Even if you think it's obvious, you may have different justification then any of us. Thus, I want you to share it.Think a bit longer. I am not going to say more.*thinks for a few seconds*I'm perplexed by the instant acceptance LaLight's claim has gotten. When faust and DatSwan were masons, they were suspected for Days. True, it was mostly scum trying to spin the mason fakeclaim story, but I don't think I've ever seen faust assign the IC label so easily.When you think about it, it's really quite obvious that LaLight is telling the truth.
Why?
That's fair. If the person with the largest wagon looks scummy, I will switch to them if necessary to lynch a scummy person.I never will understand this written-in-stone rule that one must lynch. If the only alternatives look nothing but town to you, I don't see the incentive to lay your hammer on the altar of the all-powerful Lynch. But if you think there's scum there, hammer like there's no tomorrow.I am 99% sure I'll be here for the deadline. My vote stands, although I am wondering whether I should switch to prevent a no-lynch. I thought lynching was almost always superior to not lynching? Anyone care to explain why no-lynching might be better than lynching?In general, it is always good to consolidate votes as deadline approaches. Since you will be here at deadline, you will know if a switch just to prevent no-lynch is needed. DatSwan gave a comprehensive explanation of why no lynch is bad. Why are thinking it is maybe better?
I don't want anyone to get away with not giving info to the town, period.Okay then.
Right That certainly felt like the wagon du jour, but it felt like most of the people were hopping there for unstated reasons, or sheeping others' unstated reasons. That made the whole wagon feel pretty scummy to me. I'm not a fan of convenience-votes.Well i have changed my mind about preferred lynch based on the last page and a half:Interesting choice to change your mind
Vote:RaeRae
... But... looking at the LaLight wagon, those folks on there aren't exactly a very townie bunch. I think the chance of scum being there is pretty decent. Which in turn is a point in favor of one of MiX/raerae being scum. Vote: raerae
Hmm...raerae was never on LaLight's wagon.
That is not what I am saying though. I say that... But... looking at the LaLight wagon, those folks on there aren't exactly a very townie bunch. I think the chance of scum being there is pretty decent. Which in turn is a point in favor of one of MiX/raerae being scum. Vote: raerae
Hmm...raerae was never on LaLight's wagon.
I think the universe might collapse because I agree with MiX about this [singular] point and I'm not changing my vote [yet]. I just checked she never voted for LaLight or seems like even waved the FoS. Please explain with references as those seem to be lacking, in general???
@Faust - questions for you in #743should have made more clear.
1. I said "not get away with not giving info to the town". I suspect your scum, so no info for you.I don't want anyone to get away with not giving info to the town, period.Okay then.
What is your role?
You assume that me sharing my reasoning won't hurt the town. That is a baseless assumption. I think that it will hurt town. Since I am the only one here who knows my reasoning, I suggest you leave it up to me to judge whether sharing it hurts the town.1. I said "not get away with not giving info to the town". I suspect your scum, so no info for you.I don't want anyone to get away with not giving info to the town, period.Okay then.
What is your role?
2. Even if you were town, I still wouldn't disclose this, because it would be information even the scum doesn't have. Keeping roles secret is better for town, because if I claim vanilla townie, the scum wont kill me and will have a better chance to kill PRs, and if I claim PR, the scum will kill me. However, the reason as to the mason's legitimacy won't assist the scum, as they either are masquerading as the masons themselves, or know that the persons claiming mason are legit and therefore have no need of extra confirmation. Basically, either way, sharing your reasoning wont hurt the town. Sharing my role would.
Basically, either way, sharing your reasoning wont hurt the town.That's an assumption. Could be true. Could be false. That's the funny thing about assumptions.
You assume that me sharing my reasoning won't hurt the town. That is a baseless assumption. I think that it will hurt town. Since I am the only one here who knows my reasoning, I suggest you leave it up to me to judge whether sharing it hurts the town.1. I said "not get away with not giving info to the town". I suspect your scum, so no info for you.I don't want anyone to get away with not giving info to the town, period.Okay then.
What is your role?
2. Even if you were town, I still wouldn't disclose this, because it would be information even the scum doesn't have. Keeping roles secret is better for town, because if I claim vanilla townie, the scum wont kill me and will have a better chance to kill PRs, and if I claim PR, the scum will kill me. However, the reason as to the mason's legitimacy won't assist the scum, as they either are masquerading as the masons themselves, or know that the persons claiming mason are legit and therefore have no need of extra confirmation. Basically, either way, sharing your reasoning wont hurt the town. Sharing my role would.
Not an assumption, a deduction. And if it's wrong, demonstrate as such. Give me a situation where a town sharing reasoning would hurt the town. Hypothetical, of course. I don't want you proving me wrong by giving your reasoning now. If i'm wrong, it's better for you to stay silent. Thus, a hypothetical situation is in order.Basically, either way, sharing your reasoning wont hurt the town.That's an assumption. Could be true. Could be false. That's the funny thing about assumptions.
I think the universe might collapse because I agree with MiX about this [singular] point and I'm not changing my vote [yet]. I just checked she never voted for LaLight or seems like even waved the FoS. Please explain [@faust] with references as those seem to be lacking, in general???That is not what I am saying though. I say that
- there is scum on LaLight iff one of raerae/MiX is scum
- the people on LaLight are kind of scummy
- thus, likely, there is scum on LaLight, which implies by the first point that one of raerae/MiX is scum.
Reasoning isn't the same as information regarding roles. The scum already know if you are town or scum, so knowing your reasoning is worthless to them. Unless your reasoning is guaranteed to help the scum by painting a guaranteed town in a bad light (which you can only know if you are mason or scum), your reasoning won't hurt the town. Give me a hypothetical situation where your reasoning would hurt the town, and I'll eat my words.
1 should be "if and only if"I think the universe might collapse because I agree with MiX about this [singular] point and I'm not changing my vote [yet]. I just checked she never voted for LaLight or seems like even waved the FoS. Please explain [@faust] with references as those seem to be lacking, in general???That is not what I am saying though. I say that
- there is scum on LaLight iff one of raerae/MiX is scum
- the people on LaLight are kind of scummy
- thus, likely, there is scum on LaLight, which implies by the first point that one of raerae/MiX is scum.
I'm going to rephrase what you say in some if/then logic:
1. If raerae or MiX are scum, then someone who is scum is on LaLight.
2. People on LaLight are scummy
3. Because scum are likely on LaLight, vote RaeRae.
Makes absolutely no sense to me. However, I'm a newb so... if your logic holds then Vote: MiX
1. In this scenario, you have hard information about what occurred (you doctoring Ozle). This is acceptable to keep secret (like my role). What I am asking of you is reasoning. If you said "Ozle said such and such towny thing, I think he's towny" this wouldn't give away your role. You don't have to give your information, just your reasoning. Now admittedly you may have such hard information (you may be a fellow mason). However, you saidReasoning isn't the same as information regarding roles. The scum already know if you are town or scum, so knowing your reasoning is worthless to them. Unless your reasoning is guaranteed to help the scum by painting a guaranteed town in a bad light (which you can only know if you are mason or scum), your reasoning won't hurt the town. Give me a hypothetical situation where your reasoning would hurt the town, and I'll eat my words.
Hypothetical 1: I am a Doctor. I have targeted Ozle at night. Noone died. Now I have information that makes me think Ozle is town. But I will not share my reasoning.
Hypothetical 2: Ozle is a Cop. He makes a post in which he somehow reference Cops, as a breadcrumb for his role. I notice it. Now explaining this reasoning will out Ozle as the Cop, which I certainly do not want.
Bon appetit.
When you think about it, it's really quite obvious that LaLight is telling the truth.Which implies that reasoning brought you to the conclusion that LaLight is telling you the truth, not hard doctor or mason information, and that others can deduce this as well. Im asking for the reasoning, not the hard information.
2. In this scenario, you aren't sure Ozle is a cop. He could be trying to direct the scum to kill him instead of the real cop. Pointing this out would assist Ozle in his endeavors, and allow the cop to survive another night.He isn't though. You will notice that in the scenario I posted, Ozle is the Cop. You are talking about some other scenario and I don't know why, as it is clearly not the scenario I provided as an example.
In the example, you don't KNOW he is the cop. I'm assuming you aren't a role cop as you didn't say you are. If you don't KNOW he is the cop, you can't know for sure what would help or hurt him. Sure, he is the cop, but from your perspective he could be acting as a decoy and it could assist the town to help him get NKed.2. In this scenario, you aren't sure Ozle is a cop. He could be trying to direct the scum to kill him instead of the real cop. Pointing this out would assist Ozle in his endeavors, and allow the cop to survive another night.He isn't though. You will notice that in the scenario I posted, Ozle is the Cop. You are talking about some other scenario and I don't know why, as it is clearly not the scenario I provided as an example.
I'm perplexed by the instant acceptance LaLight's claim has gotten. When faust and DatSwan were masons, they were suspected for Days. True, it was mostly scum trying to spin the mason fakeclaim story, but I don't think I've ever seen faust assign the IC label so easily.
1. I said "not get away with not giving info to the town". I suspect your scum, so no info for you.
I think the universe might collapse because I agree with MiX about this [singular] point and I'm not changing my vote [yet]. I just checked she never voted for LaLight or seems like even waved the FoS. Please explain [@faust] with references as those seem to be lacking, in general???That is not what I am saying though. I say that
- there is scum on LaLight iff one of raerae/MiX is scum
- the people on LaLight are kind of scummy
- thus, likely, there is scum on LaLight, which implies by the first point that one of raerae/MiX is scum.
I'm going to rephrase what you say in some if/then logic:
1. If raerae or MiX are scum, then someone who is scum is on LaLight.
2. People on LaLight are scummy
3. Because scum are likely on LaLight, vote RaeRae.
Makes absolutely no sense to me. However, I'm a newb so... if your logic holds then Vote: MiX
With that comment, I was trying to remind everyone that I don't think i'm dealing with town in these arguments. I immediately give the rest of my reasoning in 2.1. I said "not get away with not giving info to the town". I suspect your scum, so no info for you.You do know you're not in a QT with faust: everything you say will be heard by "town".
With that comment, I was trying to remind everyone that I don't think i'm dealing with town in these arguments. I immediately give the rest of my reasoning in 2.1. I said "not get away with not giving info to the town". I suspect your scum, so no info for you.You do know you're not in a QT with faust: everything you say will be heard by "town".
Thoughts on LaLight DatSwan raerae shraeye EFHW in no particular order?
This was so you would reread and get a better sense of your scumreads, but now that's not important, instead look at DatSwan raerae mail-mi.
Gladly. Give me 20-30 minutes to re-read them.With that comment, I was trying to remind everyone that I don't think i'm dealing with town in these arguments. I immediately give the rest of my reasoning in 2.1. I said "not get away with not giving info to the town". I suspect your scum, so no info for you.You do know you're not in a QT with faust: everything you say will be heard by "town".
Do you think we forgot? Because I know you forgot about something:
You also never answered this:Thoughts on LaLight DatSwan raerae shraeye EFHW in no particular order?
This was so you would reread and get a better sense of your scumreads, but now that's not important, instead look at DatSwan raerae mail-mi.
Please do the above, we don't have much time.
Random question to UoS:
Can there be multiple scum teams, each consisting of more than one person, in the game?
Anyways, regarding the rules of masons, is there guaranteed to be a mason? Or is it possible that the scum are taking a gamble on there being no real masons and claiming masons? Not that I suspect that, I just want to make sure. I've never played a mafia game where the roles weren't guaranteed to be 2 or 3 different sets of roles.Not definitely masons in the game, the roles are from within a set of possible roles (of which mason is a possibility)
Also, weren't you voting for me already?
vote: arishipshape. Cluttering the thread.I was providing information. Kind of suspect imho. Other than those votes i'm not seeing anything too out of the ordinary. A little inactive for my taste perhaps.
MiX (4): Debatepro, shraeye, arishipshape, raerae
raerae (3): Joseph2302, DatSwan, faust
mail-mi (3): LaLight, silverspawn, MiXLaLight (1): EFHW
DatSwan (1): Uncleeurope
MiX MiX, he's our man! If we can't lynch him, then scum will win!
Shraeye: Played those weird guessing games at the start. As you all know, I hate obfuscation and withholding of reason. Hasn't been super towny to make up for it IMHO. Therefore, fos.It has been brought to my attention that I missed Mail-Mi. Here goes:
LaLight: Is uncc'ed mason, a little to inactive for my liking. I think it would take some serious risk taking for scum to pretend to be mason, but if they pulled it off may God have mercy on our souls. I think LaLight actually is mason.
DatSwan: Active, good summarys, townread. Only issue I find is that early Faust having a role restriction conspiracy theory. I suspect nobody would just randomly be in the role restriction mindset, so I suspect DatSwan has some sort of role like that. That role could be town oriented, or scum. IDK. I suspect DatSwan is good, but depending on the restriction role swan may or may not have, I could change on that.
Raerae: Townread. Nice and logical. No hiding stuff.
E-foo: As I was typing this, Efoo voted mail-mi and gave no reasons why. Reasons please. Also,vote: arishipshape. Cluttering the thread.I was providing information. Kind of suspect imho. Other than those votes i'm not seeing anything too out of the ordinary. A little inactive for my taste perhaps.
probably not much. at this point i've almost tunneled down to the earth's core!! can't stop now, gotta get those achievements.
Mail-mi: Not enough content for my liking. He isn't definitive and/or contributing enough. Nothing to evil, but nothing good either. I lean towards scum.
Plz provide quote. Just saying "an explanation exists" means I have to go through all your posts again, which I don't really wanna do. I've got work to do today, cant spend it all re-readingMail-mi: Not enough content for my liking. He isn't definitive and/or contributing enough. Nothing to evil, but nothing good either. I lean towards scum.
i have already explained this.
this day one has way too many pages.Plus the content of this post nullifys my statement somewhat (sorry for the double post)
I am rereading MiX right now, thoughts collected here:
goes all buddy-buddy on ariship. not sure how I feel about it. He seems very confident, though I suppose he's not an actual newbie, he's just a newbie to f.ds.
Question: How does MiX know Joseph's meta? He says he's only read the past few games, which I haven't done--Did Joseph claim SK in those games? If either one of them flips scum, definitely look back on them.
asks at least a few "would this be scummy if..." or "what I'm doing is usually scummy but..." stuff. Seems like it could be hedgy. Slightly scummy.
answering things instantly is not scummy. I don't like leaving questions unanswered (unless I miss them), and that is as town or scum. Null.
hm, MiX has been paying very close attention to the amount of votes that are on him. That's something I do much more often as scum than as town because I'm more worried about being lynched as scum than I am as town. Scummy.
also talks about how there are reasonable cases on him. if he's town, he knows any case on him is not reasonable because it is untrue. if he's scum, he should be trying to convince people that those cases are unreasonable. This is just weird. doesn't really affect my read.
i'm on MiX's post #251 and I've got to go to class, but my townread on him has significantly diminished due to this more focused reread of him. for now I will vote: MiX and finish my reread later if I can
also talks about how there are reasonable cases on him. if he's town, he knows any case on him is not reasonable because it is untrue. if he's scum, he should be trying to convince people that those cases are unreasonable. This is just weird. doesn't really affect my read.
It does not matter what I know. In the scenario he is the Cop, and so my sharing my observation does hurt town.In the example, you don't KNOW he is the cop. I'm assuming you aren't a role cop as you didn't say you are. If you don't KNOW he is the cop, you can't know for sure what would help or hurt him. Sure, he is the cop, but from your perspective he could be acting as a decoy and it could assist the town to help him get NKed.2. In this scenario, you aren't sure Ozle is a cop. He could be trying to direct the scum to kill him instead of the real cop. Pointing this out would assist Ozle in his endeavors, and allow the cop to survive another night.He isn't though. You will notice that in the scenario I posted, Ozle is the Cop. You are talking about some other scenario and I don't know why, as it is clearly not the scenario I provided as an example.
Plz provide quote. Just saying "an explanation exists" means I have to go through all your posts again, which I don't really wanna do. I've got work to do today, cant spend it all re-readingMail-mi: Not enough content for my liking. He isn't definitive and/or contributing enough. Nothing to evil, but nothing good either. I lean towards scum.
i have already explained this.
So I'm super busy right now so don't expect too much from me, especially while I catch up. It also seems like everyone likes making gigantic wall posts in this game--don't expect that from me either :P
It absolutely matters what you know. You can only make decisions based on what you know. If the situation today is anything like hypothetical 2, you can't know who the mason is for sure, and so you can't guarantee the correct move being not to share with the town.It does not matter what I know. In the scenario he is the Cop, and so my sharing my observation does hurt town.In the example, you don't KNOW he is the cop. I'm assuming you aren't a role cop as you didn't say you are. If you don't KNOW he is the cop, you can't know for sure what would help or hurt him. Sure, he is the cop, but from your perspective he could be acting as a decoy and it could assist the town to help him get NKed.2. In this scenario, you aren't sure Ozle is a cop. He could be trying to direct the scum to kill him instead of the real cop. Pointing this out would assist Ozle in his endeavors, and allow the cop to survive another night.He isn't though. You will notice that in the scenario I posted, Ozle is the Cop. You are talking about some other scenario and I don't know why, as it is clearly not the scenario I provided as an example.
Plz provide quote. Just saying "an explanation exists" means I have to go through all your posts again, which I don't really wanna do. I've got work to do today, cant spend it all re-readingMail-mi: Not enough content for my liking. He isn't definitive and/or contributing enough. Nothing to evil, but nothing good either. I lean towards scum.Touche. I retract my opinion and consider mail-mi neutral.
i have already explained this.So I'm super busy right now so don't expect too much from me, especially while I catch up. It also seems like everyone likes making gigantic wall posts in this game--don't expect that from me either :P
my second post in the game.
It absolutely matters what you know. You can only make decisions based on what you know. If the situation today is anything like hypothetical 2, you can't know who the mason is for sure, and so you can't guarantee the correct move being not to share with the town.It's a hypothetical situation in which me sharing my reasoning would hurt scum, which is what you asked for. Any wild guesses you make about how it relates to our current situation are your problem and yours alone. I don't think I will waste any further time arguing with you, as you have clearly never learned how to cede a point.
It absolutely matters what you know. You can only make decisions based on what you know. If the situation today is anything like hypothetical 2, you can't know who the mason is for sure, and so you can't guarantee the correct move being not to share with the town.It's a hypothetical situation in which me sharing my reasoning would hurt scum, which is what you asked for. Any wild guesses you make about how it relates to our current situation are your problem and yours alone. I don't think I will waste any further time arguing with you, as you have clearly never learned how to cede a point.
IDK why it didn't show up, but I said at the end of my last post "Touche. I retract my previous statement about Mail-Mi. I'm neutral now."
It absolutely matters what you know. You can only make decisions based on what you know. If the situation today is anything like hypothetical 2, you can't know who the mason is for sure, and so you can't guarantee the correct move being not to share with the town.It's a hypothetical situation in which me sharing my reasoning would hurt scum, which is what you asked for. Any wild guesses you make about how it relates to our current situation are your problem and yours alone. I don't think I will waste any further time arguing with you, as you have clearly never learned how to cede a point.
So the main reason he's towny is that he is not scummy?
also also Joseph was the ony one questioning my claim. which is making him townier in my eyes
I'm perplexed by the instant acceptance LaLight's claim has gotten. When faust and DatSwan were masons, they were suspected for Days. True, it was mostly scum trying to spin the mason fakeclaim story, but I don't think I've ever seen faust assign the IC label so easily.
sorry for the double post
Sorry, internet PTSD from when I got ripped to shreds for double posting.sorry for the double post
*scratches head* have you not noticed all of the people double-, triple-, quadruple-, -quintuple, -sixtuple, etc-posting?
It absolutely matters what you know. You can only make decisions based on what you know. If the situation today is anything like hypothetical 2, you can't know who the mason is for sure, and so you can't guarantee the correct move being not to share with the town.It's a hypothetical situation in which me sharing my reasoning would hurt scum, which is what you asked for. Any wild guesses you make about how it relates to our current situation are your problem and yours alone. I don't think I will waste any further time arguing with you, as you have clearly never learned how to cede a point.IDK why it didn't show up, but I said at the end of my last post "Touche. I retract my previous statement about Mail-Mi. I'm neutral now."
Fair.It absolutely matters what you know. You can only make decisions based on what you know. If the situation today is anything like hypothetical 2, you can't know who the mason is for sure, and so you can't guarantee the correct move being not to share with the town.It's a hypothetical situation in which me sharing my reasoning would hurt scum, which is what you asked for. Any wild guesses you make about how it relates to our current situation are your problem and yours alone. I don't think I will waste any further time arguing with you, as you have clearly never learned how to cede a point.IDK why it didn't show up, but I said at the end of my last post "Touche. I retract my previous statement about Mail-Mi. I'm neutral now."
Not the same thing. Most people can concede points that no-one challenged them on. The difficulty of conceding comes from a loss of pride and perceived loss of status. That's present if you've actually been arguing about it, and it's more present the more heated the argument is (that's why emotional arguments are such a waste of time, they're the least likely situations for people to change their minds). In the instance you quoted, conceding was easy. In the argument with faust, not so much.
Yes.It absolutely matters what you know. You can only make decisions based on what you know. If the situation today is anything like hypothetical 2, you can't know who the mason is for sure, and so you can't guarantee the correct move being not to share with the town.It's a hypothetical situation in which me sharing my reasoning would hurt scum, which is what you asked for. Any wild guesses you make about how it relates to our current situation are your problem and yours alone. I don't think I will waste any further time arguing with you, as you have clearly never learned how to cede a point.
@faust This a error? Sharing your reason would hurt town, right?
Add DatSwan to my list of townreads. I ISOd him and he reads very genuine to me.
Unless there's a strong case on him that I missed, I think I now prefer mailmi > Mix = rae > DatSwan
Add DatSwan to my list of townreads. I ISOd him and he reads very genuine to me.
Unless there's a strong case on him that I missed, I think I now prefer mailmi > Mix = rae > DatSwan
I'm not a newbie, but what does ISO mean?
@faust, that wagon is the only way I can live. Unless people realize shraeye's scum, which won't happen in an hour.Well, unless you are moving somewhere else, intent to hammer I guess.
@MiX I'm still trying to understand what exactly is going on in this game. My reread was more like a detailed skim. I'm excited to get to day 2 so I can start with a fresh day.Whats so amazing about this, MiX?
@faust, that wagon is the only way I can live. Unless people realize shraeye's scum, which won't happen in an hour.Well, unless you are moving somewhere else, intent to hammer I guess.
@MiX I'm still trying to understand what exactly is going on in this game. My reread was more like a detailed skim. I'm excited to get to day 2 so I can start with a fresh day.Whats so amazing about this, MiX?
If there is any other information that anyone wants from me, now is the time. Ask now, or said information will be lost forever.Rank each player from townyness to scummyness.
If, against all odds, you flip town, I will make this my mafia bible.So for fun let's look at the two biggest wagons.
looks at MiX and raerae's wagons
Don't forget about LaLight!
I should probably step in: I'm fine with a LaLight lynch, but I would much prefer a shraeye lynch...I've been rereading some of his games, what I've concluded thus far is that he's much more consistent as scum, whereas he jokes way more as town. Now, I've only read 3 games, but I think this is a decent pool for me to get a taste of his meta...I'd love to hear the opinions from anyone who has more information on shraeye's meta (especially raerae). This meta matches with scum!shraeye this game, in fact, I'm confident enough to make a case:
- His initial vote on me is classic scumhunting: obvious, low effort and pro-town, I see this as scummy, since he doesn't do much between this and saying the reason.
- When stating his reason on his first vote, he compounds this with my flailing, saying that I went back and forth on his case; then, when I defended it, he essencially disregarded it, using it to further his scumread: I believe no one would do this as town; yes, WIFOM states that scum wouldn't do it either, but shraeye has definitly commited to mislynch me, at worst he doesn't have to make a good case on someone else, at best he gets a free mislynch based on towny's cases on me.
- Throws a lot of shade on uncle, especially for "looking for scummy things" against EFHW; I think that was towny from Uncle, as I was doing the same, I never said anything because I hadn't found enough, but uncle clearly thought otherwise, EFHW was an unscrutinized player and needed some pressure.
- Gives a townread on raerae, which is a very safe play, as she said (he would be called out if he hadn't said it), and...I don't see any more scumreads. For me this signals he very clearly intends to mislynch me today and will figure out the rest as he goes along, which is fine, scum only needs 1 scumread per day.
All in all, what I would expect as scum, almost TOO perfectly. Everyone, please tell me all the confirmation bias I am in, I have to admit I've never done a case on scum before, not of this importance, usually all that was needed was "oh he's fakeclaiming, lynch"; I would love EVERYONE's opinion on this.
mail-mi, ewww on that raerae vote, no explanation at this stage of the day is bad, as raerae posted, no one has good cases on her, if she's scum you'll need to convince people to join her wagon man.
And just to be clear, I also reread DatSwan and LaLight and I find both of them to be scummy.
So for fun let's look at the two biggest wagons.
looks at MiX and raerae's wagons
Don't forget about LaLight!
I should probably step in: I'm fine with a LaLight lynch, but I would much prefer a shraeye lynch...I've been rereading some of his games, what I've concluded thus far is that he's much more consistent as scum, whereas he jokes way more as town. Now, I've only read 3 games, but I think this is a decent pool for me to get a taste of his meta...I'd love to hear the opinions from anyone who has more information on shraeye's meta (especially raerae). This meta matches with scum!shraeye this game, in fact, I'm confident enough to make a case:
- His initial vote on me is classic scumhunting: obvious, low effort and pro-town, I see this as scummy, since he doesn't do much between this and saying the reason.
- When stating his reason on his first vote, he compounds this with my flailing, saying that I went back and forth on his case; then, when I defended it, he essencially disregarded it, using it to further his scumread: I believe no one would do this as town; yes, WIFOM states that scum wouldn't do it either, but shraeye has definitly commited to mislynch me, at worst he doesn't have to make a good case on someone else, at best he gets a free mislynch based on towny's cases on me.
- Throws a lot of shade on uncle, especially for "looking for scummy things" against EFHW; I think that was towny from Uncle, as I was doing the same, I never said anything because I hadn't found enough, but uncle clearly thought otherwise, EFHW was an unscrutinized player and needed some pressure.
- Gives a townread on raerae, which is a very safe play, as she said (he would be called out if he hadn't said it), and...I don't see any more scumreads. For me this signals he very clearly intends to mislynch me today and will figure out the rest as he goes along, which is fine, scum only needs 1 scumread per day.
All in all, what I would expect as scum, almost TOO perfectly. Everyone, please tell me all the confirmation bias I am in, I have to admit I've never done a case on scum before, not of this importance, usually all that was needed was "oh he's fakeclaiming, lynch"; I would love EVERYONE's opinion on this.
mail-mi, ewww on that raerae vote, no explanation at this stage of the day is bad, as raerae posted, no one has good cases on her, if she's scum you'll need to convince people to join her wagon man.
And just to be clear, I also reread DatSwan and LaLight and I find both of them to be scummy.
If there is any other information that anyone wants from me, now is the time. Ask now, or said information will be lost forever.Rank each player from townyness to scummyness.
If, against all odds, you flip town, I will make this my mafia bible.So for fun let's look at the two biggest wagons.
looks at MiX and raerae's wagons
Don't forget about LaLight!
I should probably step in: I'm fine with a LaLight lynch, but I would much prefer a shraeye lynch...I've been rereading some of his games, what I've concluded thus far is that he's much more consistent as scum, whereas he jokes way more as town. Now, I've only read 3 games, but I think this is a decent pool for me to get a taste of his meta...I'd love to hear the opinions from anyone who has more information on shraeye's meta (especially raerae). This meta matches with scum!shraeye this game, in fact, I'm confident enough to make a case:
- His initial vote on me is classic scumhunting: obvious, low effort and pro-town, I see this as scummy, since he doesn't do much between this and saying the reason.
- When stating his reason on his first vote, he compounds this with my flailing, saying that I went back and forth on his case; then, when I defended it, he essencially disregarded it, using it to further his scumread: I believe no one would do this as town; yes, WIFOM states that scum wouldn't do it either, but shraeye has definitly commited to mislynch me, at worst he doesn't have to make a good case on someone else, at best he gets a free mislynch based on towny's cases on me.
- Throws a lot of shade on uncle, especially for "looking for scummy things" against EFHW; I think that was towny from Uncle, as I was doing the same, I never said anything because I hadn't found enough, but uncle clearly thought otherwise, EFHW was an unscrutinized player and needed some pressure.
- Gives a townread on raerae, which is a very safe play, as she said (he would be called out if he hadn't said it), and...I don't see any more scumreads. For me this signals he very clearly intends to mislynch me today and will figure out the rest as he goes along, which is fine, scum only needs 1 scumread per day.
All in all, what I would expect as scum, almost TOO perfectly. Everyone, please tell me all the confirmation bias I am in, I have to admit I've never done a case on scum before, not of this importance, usually all that was needed was "oh he's fakeclaiming, lynch"; I would love EVERYONE's opinion on this.
mail-mi, ewww on that raerae vote, no explanation at this stage of the day is bad, as raerae posted, no one has good cases on her, if she's scum you'll need to convince people to join her wagon man.
And just to be clear, I also reread DatSwan and LaLight and I find both of them to be scummy.
We have an hour, right? Could you please re-evaluate your opinion on Mix based on this flailing? This strongly reminds me of myself when I'm town and close to being lynched.
We have an hour, right? Could you please re-evaluate your opinion on Mix based on this flailing? This strongly reminds me of myself when I'm town and close to being lynched.
This strongly reminds me of myself when I'm scum and close to being lynched. That's why I voted basically
This post exists.
If, against all odds, you flip town, I will make this my mafia bible.So for fun let's look at the two biggest wagons.
looks at MiX and raerae's wagons
...Don't forget about LaLight!... lots of text
woah, townreading ari and faust more then me.
well, if MiX isn't scum I'm gonna eat my tie now
We have an hour, right? Could you please re-evaluate your opinion on Mix based on this flailing? This strongly reminds me of myself when I'm town and close to being lynched.
This strongly reminds me of myself when I'm scum and close to being lynched. That's why I voted basically
We are different. As scum I would fight back with tooth and nail, or at least that's what I usually did in previous games, different medium thoThis post exists.
Thank you.
woah, townreading ari and faust more then me.
well, if MiX isn't scum I'm gonna eat my tie now
Eat it. I want to watch it.
woah, townreading ari and faust more then me.
well, if MiX isn't scum I'm gonna eat my tie now
woah, townreading ari and faust more then me.But you still want me to wait, right?
well, if MiX isn't scum I'm gonna eat my tie now
We have an hour, right? Could you please re-evaluate your opinion on Mix based on this flailing? This strongly reminds me of myself when I'm town and close to being lynched.
This strongly reminds me of myself when I'm scum and close to being lynched. That's why I voted basically
We are different. As scum I would fight back with tooth and nail, or at least that's what I usually did in previous games, different medium thoThis post exists.
Thank you.
The fact that you know your meta makes it more likely you can play for or against it.
woah, townreading ari and faust more then me.But you still want me to wait, right?
well, if MiX isn't scum I'm gonna eat my tie now
We have an hour, right? Could you please re-evaluate your opinion on Mix based on this flailing? This strongly reminds me of myself when I'm town and close to being lynched.
This strongly reminds me of myself when I'm scum and close to being lynched. That's why I voted basically
We are different. As scum I would fight back with tooth and nail, or at least that's what I usually did in previous games, different medium thoThis post exists.
Thank you.
The fact that you know your meta makes it more likely you can play for or against it.
But you don't! What use is there of knowing my previous meta if no one else knows it? I'm just saying something you cannot prove: useless but...what else do I have?
faust what do you think about the flailing in particular?More scum than town.
Up until this point, I was entirely certain of MiX's scumness. However, seeing how he accepts "inevitable" death, i'm only 90% sure now... absolutely not trying to sheep SS, but you do remind me of me in Secret Hitler when i'm good and know i'm about to get executed. I would really hate to be the rallying force of killing town... I wouldn't do this if I wasn't so sure I would be here and active for the next hour, but I am. unvote. If nothing else happens to change my views in the next 53 minutes, I'll reinstate my vote.Vote: MiX
Telling "as scum I would do X" just never gonna convince anyone
ok, mod says nothing happens. You can hammer now, and I am ging to sleep. Also it's my wife's birthday right now. Good night!Happy birthday to your Wife!
ok, mod says nothing happens. You can hammer now, and I am ging to sleep. Also it's my wife's birthday right now. Good night!
ok, mod says nothing happens. You can hammer now, and I am ging to sleep. Also it's my wife's birthday right now. Good night!
he can't hammer now since he's already voting and ariship unvoted
MiX. Do you think the mafia is pulling the greatest fakeclaim of all time and claiming mason? Or are the masons legit? I'm leaning legit.
I saw the list, it said "if" he is mason, implying he might not be. I was wondering what you thought the chances of that was. Which you told me. Thanks. *goes back to sweating profusely and re-reading all MiX's posts*MiX. Do you think the mafia is pulling the greatest fakeclaim of all time and claiming mason? Or are the masons legit? I'm leaning legit.
Did you see the list I made at Debatepro's request? I specifically put DatSwan higher if he's mason. Yes I think they're legit.
I saw the list, it said "if" he is mason, implying he might not be. I was wondering what you thought the chances of that was. Which you told me. Thanks. *goes back to sweating profusely and re-reading all MiX's posts*MiX. Do you think the mafia is pulling the greatest fakeclaim of all time and claiming mason? Or are the masons legit? I'm leaning legit.
Did you see the list I made at Debatepro's request? I specifically put DatSwan higher if he's mason. Yes I think they're legit.
There are 11 people watching this thread right now. Why are only we three posting?
There are 11 people watching this thread right now. Why are only we three posting?
There are 11 people watching this thread right now. Why are only we three posting?
I voted in post 70... :)
Wow, mods have the power to edit posts...without there being something saying "this post has been edited". Magic.
Wow, mods have the power to edit posts...without there being something saying "this post has been edited". Magic.
There's this awesome thing on f.ds where you have a small time window to edit posts without the editing message appearing. I think that's what you've just seen. I don't think it has anything to do with him being the mod.
Of course, the fact that he can edit posts at all in this board is because he's the mod.
I already stated awhile ago why I wasn't voting MiX. I think he was having fun being witty rather than being classically scummy.There are 11 people watching this thread right now. Why are only we three posting?
No one has an interest in either hammering me or talking town out of the (mis)lynch. Town wants this to continue to get reactions and scum don't want to talk: all they have to do is stay quiet, after all.
... *slams head against table*.
I don't know what to do! My theory is crumbling under MiX's current behavior. I imagined MiX would turn on me when I turned on him to try to cast me in doubt, but he continues to call me town and faces inevitable lynches with the most pro town behavior possible. I still kinda sorta suspect him, but even if I 100% decided that he was innocent, I don't think I can stop the MiX lynch. I'm not seeing enough voters online to turn the lynch on anyone else, and I imagine MiX is gonna get hammered regardless of what I do. I guess all I can do is get and provide information.
Regarding the getting, MiX. Why do you suspect Faust wanted to withhold reasoning from the town? And do you think he was right about those hypotheticals, or I? Be honest, spare me no logic.
I agree mail-mi isn't a great replacement. Opportunistic votes in the past were his calling card, town or scum.
... *slams head against table*.
I don't know what to do! My theory is crumbling under MiX's current behavior. I imagined MiX would turn on me when I turned on him to try to cast me in doubt, but he continues to call me town and faces inevitable lynches with the most pro town behavior possible. I still kinda sorta suspect him, but even if I 100% decided that he was innocent, I don't think I can stop the MiX lynch. I'm not seeing enough voters online to turn the lynch on anyone else, and I imagine MiX is gonna get hammered regardless of what I do. I guess all I can do is get and provide information.
Regarding the getting, MiX. Why do you suspect Faust wanted to withhold reasoning from the town? And do you think he was right about those hypotheticals, or I? Be honest, spare me no logic.
This post right here SCREAMS town, why were you assuming I was going to flip my read? The very doubting of me is exactly what I expected from you as town...but this doesn't matter anymore.
I don't think you should push faust. After all, what do you gain? Nothing.
Why do you suspect Faust wanted to withhold reasoning from the town? And do you think he was right about those hypotheticals, or I? Be honest, spare me no logic.If Faust is a live after N1... suspect away.
I do t want to hammer this, i doubt we can sway to someone else but I would still like to.You do or you don't want to? Who would you sway to if there was infinite support?
Question: If I hypothetically hammered (which I am 90% sure is smart), would the day instantly end like on epicmafia? Or would we still be able to chat until 5, but without votes counting?
I do t want to hammer this, i doubt we can sway to someone else but I would still like to.
90% was an arbitrarily large percent, not literal. Regardless, touche.Question: If I hypothetically hammered (which I am 90% sure is smart), would the day instantly end like on epicmafia? Or would we still be able to chat until 5, but without votes counting?
I think it should be completely uncontroversial to say that MiX is probably town. You should not believe that your strongest day 1 scum read has a > 50% chance of being scum. If you look at some setup math, you'll see that town tends to have around a 40% chance to win a game with random lynches. (I'm sort of making this number up because power roles make calculations hard; I'm just taking the number without PRs and making it a bit larger, so it's not exact, but it'll be in that ball park). Town only needs to make lynches that are a bit better than chance in order to have even odds at winning.
Right now we have 13 people alive. One's a mason. If you're town, you know that there are 11 people out there, 3 of which scum. That means the default chance is 3/11 ≈ 0.27 (if someone other than you is lynched). It is very unlikely that you're justified in raising this number to 0.5. The game is way too hard for that.
0.9 is totally nuts. No player on f.ds is that good. Not even close.
So... I think it helps to have an appropriate amount of humility in order for good reads. thinking you have found scum with a 0.9 probability isn't a good start.
Um, MiX?
Missed this@faust, that wagon is the only way I can live. Unless people realize shraeye's scum, which won't happen in an hour.Well, unless you are moving somewhere else, intent to hammer I guess.
vote: shraeye, so the final vote count makes sense
I do t want to hammer this, i doubt we can sway to someone else but I would still like to.You do or you don't want to? Who would you sway to if there was infinite support?
@ss, hammering me is smart even if I'm town, because of all the interactions I've had with everyone. Which is why this wagon exists in the first place. Was I then not supposed to interact? Why does activity kill? So many questions, but I want no answer. The game will speak for itself.
Totally null on Shraeye. But they were one of those people who used to play way back, right? Kind of don't want to lynch a super old vet after a long hiatus day 1.
Vote: EFHW
@faust, huh? why? Say so now!Because obviously shraeye is LaLight's partner.
He is? Sorry, not obvious to me, obviously.@faust, huh? why? Say so now!Because obviously shraeye is LaLight's partner.
90% was an arbitrarily large percent, not literal.
I find it hard to belive when you were the one who pointed this post out to me:He is? Sorry, not obvious to me, obviously.@faust, huh? why? Say so now!Because obviously shraeye is LaLight's partner.
shraeye sounds like town
nice to be in a game with mail-mi
What?? This is out of nowhere! Are you claiming cop or something? Type quickly! How do you know this?@faust, huh? why? Say so now!Because obviously shraeye is LaLight's partner.
Totally null on Shraeye. But they were one of those people who used to play way back, right? Kind of don't want to lynch a super old vet after a long hiatus day 1.
How about a newbie? This goes both ways. How about an ACTIVE newbie?
I wish I didn't have to kill shraeye either: my whole progress with him seems to be of tunnelling. But it's not, I just happened to RVS vote him and then he did...what he did really.
@faust, huh? why? Say so now!
Not me. I mean, it might have been in my summary. But ok, unvote. It's a non-starter in any case given that.I find it hard to belive when you were the one who pointed this post out to me:He is? Sorry, not obvious to me, obviously.@faust, huh? why? Say so now!Because obviously shraeye is LaLight's partner.shraeye sounds like town
nice to be in a game with mail-mi
I think that was back when his lynch was inevitable. Now it seems the wagon is disbanding. I imagine. MiX, why the change? Am I right?Totally null on Shraeye. But they were one of those people who used to play way back, right? Kind of don't want to lynch a super old vet after a long hiatus day 1.
How about a newbie? This goes both ways. How about an ACTIVE newbie?
I wish I didn't have to kill shraeye either: my whole progress with him seems to be of tunnelling. But it's not, I just happened to RVS vote him and then he did...what he did really.
@faust, huh? why? Say so now!
A minute ago you told me your lynch was good for information .. ??
Reasons don't matter anymore, sheeping townreads, here we go!Seriously, when I just tried to save you?
vote: EFHW
PPE: That's...everything I believed in...I can't believe it...
Not me. I mean, it might have been in my summary. But ok, unvote. It's a non-starter in any case given that.I find it hard to belive when you were the one who pointed this post out to me:He is? Sorry, not obvious to me, obviously.@faust, huh? why? Say so now!Because obviously shraeye is LaLight's partner.shraeye sounds like town
nice to be in a game with mail-mi
And 339/338 was scummy, again imo.
Totally null on Shraeye. But they were one of those people who used to play way back, right? Kind of don't want to lynch a super old vet after a long hiatus day 1.
How about a newbie? This goes both ways. How about an ACTIVE newbie?
I wish I didn't have to kill shraeye either: my whole progress with him seems to be of tunnelling. But it's not, I just happened to RVS vote him and then he did...what he did really.
@faust, huh? why? Say so now!
A minute ago you told me your lynch was good for information .. ??
Why is everyone voting EFHW?? I haven't been super closely scrutinizing his posts for the last hour, im ill-equipped to make a decision here!
Totally null on Shraeye. But they were one of those people who used to play way back, right? Kind of don't want to lynch a super old vet after a long hiatus day 1.
How about a newbie? This goes both ways. How about an ACTIVE newbie?
I wish I didn't have to kill shraeye either: my whole progress with him seems to be of tunnelling. But it's not, I just happened to RVS vote him and then he did...what he did really.
@faust, huh? why? Say so now!
A minute ago you told me your lynch was good for information .. ??
Yes. Where's the contradiction?
@EFHW, I am already dead, saving me does not happen.
Vote Count 1.efhw
MiX (5): Debatepro, shraeye, raerae, mail-mi, LaLight
mail-mi (1): silverspawn,
raerae (2): Joseph2302, DatSwan
Shraeye (2): MiX, EFHW
EFHW (2): faust, Uncleeurope
Not voting (1): arishipshape
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 ends February 01, 2019, 05:00:00 pm. That's in about 2 hours.
Including the fact that the deadline is in two hours?Vote Count 1.efhw
MiX (5): Debatepro, shraeye, raerae, mail-mi, LaLight
mail-mi (1): silverspawn,
raerae (2): Joseph2302, DatSwan
Shraeye (2): MiX, EFHW
EFHW (2): faust, Uncleeurope
Not voting (1): arishipshape
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 ends February 01, 2019, 05:00:00 pm. That's in about 2 hours.
I certify this count.
Totally null on Shraeye. But they were one of those people who used to play way back, right? Kind of don't want to lynch a super old vet after a long hiatus day 1.
How about a newbie? This goes both ways. How about an ACTIVE newbie?
I wish I didn't have to kill shraeye either: my whole progress with him seems to be of tunnelling. But it's not, I just happened to RVS vote him and then he did...what he did really.
@faust, huh? why? Say so now!
A minute ago you told me your lynch was good for information .. ??
Yes. Where's the contradiction?
@EFHW, I am already dead, saving me does not happen.
if you're already dead then why bother trying to lynch someone else?
Okay, I am willing to die for information: who wants to lynch/hammer me? (Haven't kept track of votes)I don't want to, but we have 4 minutes. Would it be the best thing to do for the town?
Then what was the point of the call to vote Shraeye?Totally null on Shraeye. But they were one of those people who used to play way back, right? Kind of don't want to lynch a super old vet after a long hiatus day 1.
How about a newbie? This goes both ways. How about an ACTIVE newbie?
I wish I didn't have to kill shraeye either: my whole progress with him seems to be of tunnelling. But it's not, I just happened to RVS vote him and then he did...what he did really.
@faust, huh? why? Say so now!
A minute ago you told me your lynch was good for information .. ??
Yes. Where's the contradiction?
@EFHW, I am already dead, saving me does not happen.
Including the fact that my laptop died waiting on the hammer and now everything is sufferingIncluding the fact that the deadline is in two hours?Vote Count 1.efhw
MiX (5): Debatepro, shraeye, raerae, mail-mi, LaLight
mail-mi (1): silverspawn,
raerae (2): Joseph2302, DatSwan
Shraeye (2): MiX, EFHW
EFHW (2): faust, Uncleeurope
Not voting (1): arishipshape
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 ends February 01, 2019, 05:00:00 pm. That's in about 2 hours.
I certify this count.
Thank you.Rest in piece. If you flip town, i'm sorry for leading the charge against you, and for realizing all to late the truth. If your scum... Woo hoo! Best game of my life!
Goodbye town, may we all have learned a lesson...
Farewell...and I hope that was just the evil genie...
What about LaLight's breadcrumb suggesting that Shraeye is probably his partner?
Not me. I mean, it might have been in my summary. But ok, unvote. It's a non-starter in any case given that.I find it hard to belive when you were the one who pointed this post out to me:He is? Sorry, not obvious to me, obviously.@faust, huh? why? Say so now!Because obviously shraeye is LaLight's partner.shraeye sounds like town
nice to be in a game with mail-mi
Vote: ShraeyeVote: Debatepro
I will stay on Shraeye until one of the folks who had clear town > null-town read on MiX's comes up with a more persuasive case.
(http://i65.tinypic.com/ket76b.png)
Paired with the fact that shraeye and I were the only ones not online at deadline and LL said he was waiting for his partner to get on.
Paired with the fact that shraeye and I were the only ones not online at deadline and LL said he was waiting for his partner to get on.
How does one know if you are online, is this something I should track?
There's a place where you can see which users are online, and no you shouldn't.
There's a place where you can see which users are online, and no you shouldn't.
I was referring to when somebody said there were 11 people watching the thread and you and I got called out specifically.
...this is an example of why it is a bad idea to track it ...Also, anyone at anytime can just set their status to perm "offline"
...this is an example of why it is a bad idea to track it ...Also, anyone at anytime can just set their status to perm "offline"
I understand the downside to tracking, but are there rules against it?
No rules. But let's get this started with actual content.
Mail-mi, what do you think of Joseph?
Silverspawn, what do you think about UncleEurope?
faust, what do you think about DatSwan?
DebatePro, thoughts on raerae
Ok, gotta complete a cycle.
Joseph, give thoughts on silverspawn
UncleEurope, thoughts on depatepro?
Raerae, thoughts on faust?
DatSwan, thoughts on EFHW?
ArisHipShape, give thoughts on mailmi
No rules. But let's get this started with actual content.
Mail-mi, what do you think of Joseph?
Silverspawn, what do you think about UncleEurope?
faust, what do you think about DatSwan?
DebatePro, thoughts on raerae
Any opinion about his hammer? That last hour of day 1?Ok, gotta complete a cycle.
Joseph, give thoughts on silverspawn
UncleEurope, thoughts on depatepro?
Raerae, thoughts on faust?
DatSwan, thoughts on EFHW?
ArisHipShape, give thoughts on mailmi
Can't help but think he's town, he's been generating conversation, making logical sense, I've seen nothing scummy.
Less often than "the norm" or less often than "his norm"? Big difference there
Well frankly, that's useless info then. Give me better stuff, or I'm not impressedLess often than "the norm" or less often than "his norm"? Big difference there
"the norm." Seems like maybe just slightly less often than his norm.
Well frankly, that's useless info then. Give me better stuff, or I'm not impressedLess often than "the norm" or less often than "his norm"? Big difference there
"the norm." Seems like maybe just slightly less often than his norm.
so who is LL's partner?
Ok, gotta complete a cycle.
Joseph, give thoughts on silverspawn
UncleEurope, thoughts on depatepro?
Raerae, thoughts on faust?
DatSwan, thoughts on EFHW?
ArisHipShape, give thoughts on mailmi
Can you think of any specific thing or trend that raised your eyebrows?Ok, gotta complete a cycle.
Joseph, give thoughts on silverspawn
UncleEurope, thoughts on depatepro?
Raerae, thoughts on faust?
DatSwan, thoughts on EFHW?
ArisHipShape, give thoughts on mailmi
I think overall he has been very townie, with the exception of the last chunk of yesterday and today where my eyebrows are much more interesting. His moarning and avenging of mix seems contrived.
But it also might just be a newbie thing to overplay that stuff.
Ok, gotta complete a cycle.
DatSwan, thoughts on EFHW?
Any opinion about his hammer? That last hour of day 1?Ok, gotta complete a cycle.
Joseph, give thoughts on silverspawn
UncleEurope, thoughts on depatepro?
Raerae, thoughts on faust?
DatSwan, thoughts on EFHW?
ArisHipShape, give thoughts on mailmi
Can't help but think he's town, he's been generating conversation, making logical sense, I've seen nothing scummy.
Soooooo, I read this as:
here is DatSeans reads on EHFW:
"EFHW is null, but faust is possibly scummier for hammering. Mention UncleEurope. Despite an interesting wagon on EFHW, they are still null."
So your strongest opinion on "What do you think of EFHW?" is faust's hammer possibly scummy...............?
What's VCA?
Yes, I don’t buy the dunce hat routine and the immediate vote on you (MiX’s main suspect) seeming to be a way to go about rectifying him voting on MiX. I think it’s odd, hence eyebrow raising.
I still wanna know what people think about the mason partner claiming - but for reasons I am setting aside for now, after looking at the VCA... I think it would be beneficial if a claim happened. The way that votes moved around the wagons combined with LL being killed instead of Skum trying to set them up makes me feel like having an IC would really help fill in the puzzle.
I don't want to put a ton of pressure on this, so I will stop asking now, but I wanted to say that piece. Also.. people should weigh in on the matter.
DebatePro, thoughts on raeraeThere where 8 votes on MiX if you count the post hammer vote for s by SS.
faust, what do you think about DatSwan?Not sure. I found him somewhat scummy early on, and then he was absent pretty much the whole time leading up to the deadline. I give some credit to him voting raerae though.
Put that to more scummy now that I've read the rest of this Day.faust, what do you think about DatSwan?Not sure. I found him somewhat scummy early on, and then he was absent pretty much the whole time leading up to the deadline. I give some credit to him voting raerae though.
here is DatSeans reads on EHFW:I think he only deserves that nickname once he gets to a rate of N1 deaths that is close to mine.
Shoot - I must have remembered the wrong post number! I was pointing to the one I had already mentioned a couple times.I would like to hear what posts this was actually referring to.
5 min. vote: MiX
Oh, Faust is still alive day 2?
vote: Faust
Also.. people should weigh in on the matter.No they really shouldn't.
I still wanna know what people think about the mason partner claiming - but for reasons I am setting aside for now, after looking at the VCA... I think it would be beneficial if a claim happened. The way that votes moved around the wagons combined with LL being killed instead of Skum trying to set them up makes me feel like having an IC would really help fill in the puzzle.
I don't want to put a ton of pressure on this, so I will stop asking now, but I wanted to say that piece. Also.. people should weigh in on the matter.
Are you denying shraeye being the other Mason?
Also.. people should weigh in on the matter.No they really shouldn't.
Yes I am aware of this.Also.. people should weigh in on the matter.No they really shouldn't.
I didn’t say i thought it should decide the claim
The other Mason is town, you should trust them to know when to claim. Everyone who weighs in and says "I think the Mason should claim" claims effectively not Mason, thus further exposing the Mason, which is bad if the Mason thinks it is best not to claim.
I don't think you understood what I was saying... I tried to make it as clear as possible, so I'm really not sure how else to explain it. I have said nothing about "the general populus" affecting their decision, but if someone says "I think the Mason should claim" and does not claim Mason, then of course everyone knows that they are not the Mason. Like I know right now that you are not the Mason.The other Mason is town, you should trust them to know when to claim. Everyone who weighs in and says "I think the Mason should claim" claims effectively not Mason, thus further exposing the Mason, which is bad if the Mason thinks it is best not to claim.
So the mason know best when to claim only when no one says they think they should claim? I feel like if they know when they should claim they should be competent enough in your example to not let general populus effect their decision.
I don't think you understood what I was saying... I tried to make it as clear as possible, so I'm really not sure how else to explain it. I have said nothing about "the general populus" affecting their decision, but if someone says "I think the Mason should claim" and does not claim Mason, then of course everyone knows that they are not the Mason. Like I know right now that you are not the Mason.The other Mason is town, you should trust them to know when to claim. Everyone who weighs in and says "I think the Mason should claim" claims effectively not Mason, thus further exposing the Mason, which is bad if the Mason thinks it is best not to claim.
So the mason know best when to claim only when no one says they think they should claim? I feel like if they know when they should claim they should be competent enough in your example to not let general populus effect their decision.
Also a rules question:I think LaLight would have let us know if they were a lone Mason. But instead they explicitly talked about a partner. Do you think LaLight lied?
Mod: if Masons are in the setup, are there guaranteed to be at least 2 of them
Up until this point, I was entirely certain of MiX's scumness. However, seeing how he accepts "inevitable" death, i'm only 90% sure now... absolutely not trying to sheep SS, but you do remind me of me in Secret Hitler when i'm good and know i'm about to get executed. I would really hate to be the rallying force of killing town... I wouldn't do this if I wasn't so sure I would be here and active for the next hour, but I am. unvote. If nothing else happens to change my views in the next 53 minutes, I'll reinstate my vote.
... *slams head against table*.
I don't know what to do! My theory is crumbling under MiX's current behavior. I imagined MiX would turn on me when I turned on him to try to cast me in doubt, but he continues to call me town and faces inevitable lynches with the most pro town behavior possible. I still kinda sorta suspect him, but even if I 100% decided that he was innocent, I don't think I can stop the MiX lynch. I'm not seeing enough voters online to turn the lynch on anyone else, and I imagine MiX is gonna get hammered regardless of what I do. I guess all I can do is get and provide information.
Regarding the getting, MiX. Why do you suspect Faust wanted to withhold reasoning from the town? And do you think he was right about those hypotheticals, or I? Be honest, spare me no logic.
silverspawn, what do you think aboutUncleEuropeEddie?
faust, what do you think about DatSwan?Not sure. I found him somewhat scummy early on, and then he was absent pretty much the whole time leading up to the deadline. I give some credit to him voting raerae though.
At the time we had 4 wagons, 2 were on (now) known town, one was a crappy wagon on mail-mi and then raerae. raerae is definitely the least scummy place to vote there. But yeah, it's not much obviously.faust, what do you think about DatSwan?Not sure. I found him somewhat scummy early on, and then he was absent pretty much the whole time leading up to the deadline. I give some credit to him voting raerae though.
Credit someone voted for someone whom you have a scumread on? I hope it's not a lot of credit
Glad I'm still alive, would have been really tilted if I didn't get to do thisAddressing the points one by one:
vote: ariship
I strongly feel like his EoD interactions are fake, and I almost pointed this out yesterday but then didn't get to it, also I wanted to see the flip.
He's been tunneling MiX all game, and then suddenly had second thoughts at the end of the day. One reason that's weird is that the EoD was the scummiest MiX has been I think, but whatever, we might disagree with that. More important is how he did it.Up until this point, I was entirely certain of MiX's scumness. However, seeing how he accepts "inevitable" death, i'm only 90% sure now... absolutely not trying to sheep SS, but you do remind me of me in Secret Hitler when i'm good and know i'm about to get executed. I would really hate to be the rallying force of killing town... I wouldn't do this if I wasn't so sure I would be here and active for the next hour, but I am. unvote. If nothing else happens to change my views in the next 53 minutes, I'll reinstate my vote.... *slams head against table*.
I don't know what to do! My theory is crumbling under MiX's current behavior. I imagined MiX would turn on me when I turned on him to try to cast me in doubt, but he continues to call me town and faces inevitable lynches with the most pro town behavior possible. I still kinda sorta suspect him, but even if I 100% decided that he was innocent, I don't think I can stop the MiX lynch. I'm not seeing enough voters online to turn the lynch on anyone else, and I imagine MiX is gonna get hammered regardless of what I do. I guess all I can do is get and provide information.
Regarding the getting, MiX. Why do you suspect Faust wanted to withhold reasoning from the town? And do you think he was right about those hypotheticals, or I? Be honest, spare me no logic.
The second post in particular reads really super duper fake to me. Besides the tone, there's the fact that
-- He's super conscious about how his vote will affect the outcome. "even if I 100% decided that he was innocent, I don't think I can stop the MiX lynch." (Bad because Town doesn't know the alignment and so is more likely to be busy thinking about 'WHAT ALIGNMENT IS THIS GUY I DON'T KNOW' rather then 'WELL IF I DON'T VOTE HE'LL BE LYNCHED ANYWAY SO LET'S GRAPB THAT TOWNCRED"
-- Exaggerates; "the most pro town behavior possible". Bad because as scum he would know that it's coming from town and be more inclined to think it's the most towny thing ever
The post just reads as if he knows MiX is town. I can't perfeclty put it into words, but I'm not sure if I've ever gotten such a string vibe of 'this guy knows the alignment' from a post before
I also don't like, though I agree this is a minor point, how immediately he responded to my 'yo votes are weak' post. As town, people tend to convince themselves that they are 99% sure someone is scum or something. As scum, all reads are fabricated anyway, so if he just threw out a silly numebr like 90% and I point out it's overconfident, it's easier to concede 'yeah sure it's not really that high'
The one thing that makes me doubt this a bit is how impressed he [ari] was that MiX found him towny. That's more of a towny thing. Like, you're a good guy, the other one isn't trying to turn on you, he must be town, too. But on the other hand, it also shows how much he was thinking about his own lynch, which is scummy. So... overall a few town points for this, but many scum points for the above.
I should probably step in: I'm fine with a LaLight lynch, but I would much prefer a shraeye lynch...I've been rereading some of his games, what I've concluded thus far is that he's much more consistent as scum, whereas he jokes way more as town. Now, I've only read 3 games, but I think this is a decent pool for me to get a taste of his meta...I'd love to hear the opinions from anyone who has more information on shraeye's meta (especially raerae). This meta matches with scum!shraeye this game, in fact, I'm confident enough to make a case:vote: Shraeye
- His initial vote on me is classic scumhunting: obvious, low effort and pro-town, I see this as scummy, since he doesn't do much between this and saying the reason.
- When stating his reason on his first vote, he compounds this with my flailing, saying that I went back and forth on his case; then, when I defended it, he essencially disregarded it, using it to further his scumread: I believe no one would do this as town; yes, WIFOM states that scum wouldn't do it either, but shraeye has definitly commited to mislynch me, at worst he doesn't have to make a good case on someone else, at best he gets a free mislynch based on towny's cases on me.
- Throws a lot of shade on uncle, especially for "looking for scummy things" against EFHW; I think that was towny from Uncle, as I was doing the same, I never said anything because I hadn't found enough, but uncle clearly thought otherwise, EFHW was an unscrutinized player and needed some pressure.
- Gives a townread on raerae, which is a very safe play, as she said (he would be called out if he hadn't said it), and...I don't see any more scumreads. For me this signals he very clearly intends to mislynch me today and will figure out the rest as he goes along, which is fine, scum only needs 1 scumread per day.
All in all, what I would expect as scum, almost TOO perfectly.
ArisHipShape, give thoughts on mailmiGiving information? Gladly.
Oh, Faust is still alive day 2?
vote: Faust
Oh, Faust is still alive day 2?
vote: Faust
I'm not a fan of this Faust vote. MiX liked Faust, and he takes it back immediately after. What was with that? There is probably an explanation, but I'll need to hear it before rendering a verdict on Mail-Mi.
Oh. Never mind then.Oh, Faust is still alive day 2?
vote: Faust
I'm not a fan of this Faust vote. MiX liked Faust, and he takes it back immediately after. What was with that? There is probably an explanation, but I'll need to hear it before rendering a verdict on Mail-Mi.
It was a joke. Faust's town meta is to die N1 because he usually has really good reads. So, he's still alive, ergo he's scum.
How many votes do I have on me?Pretty good, then you panicked and voted for MiX anyways. I sympathize with the panic, and SilverSpawn did seal the lynch anyways, but still. Let's see what the Mafia bible has to say on the subject:
Also hopefully I'll be here for deadline.
Don't really want to lynch MiX; I'm in the same boat as Joseph. I could lynch raerae but I would need to reread her to be sure. Who else is up for lynch?
Oh. Never mind then.Oh, Faust is still alive day 2?
vote: Faust
I'm not a fan of this Faust vote. MiX liked Faust, and he takes it back immediately after. What was with that? There is probably an explanation, but I'll need to hear it before rendering a verdict on Mail-Mi.
It was a joke. Faust's town meta is to die N1 because he usually has really good reads. So, he's still alive, ergo he's scum.How many votes do I have on me?Pretty good, then you panicked and voted for MiX anyways. I sympathize with the panic, and SilverSpawn did seal the lynch anyways, but still. Let's see what the Mafia bible has to say on the subject:
Also hopefully I'll be here for deadline.
Don't really want to lynch MiX; I'm in the same boat as Joseph. I could lynch raerae but I would need to reread her to be sure. Who else is up for lynch?
(i'm to busy to find the post itself)
"mail-mi, ewww on that raerae vote, no explanation at this stage of the day is bad, as raerae posted, no one has good cases on her, if she's scum you'll need to convince people to join her wagon man."
Explanation for raerae vote please and thank you. Unless you already gave it and I missed it re-reading you.
First things first: DANG IT! I knew it! I called it! I started to smell it all to late... RIP MiX. I will avenge you!Damn right. Vote: ari
And I inevitably get flak for it.
Tunneling MiX: What are you talking about? Didn't you read my summary post of other people? What about my argument with Faust?
Super fake post: Ok, so I get emotional when the stakes are high and the time is low. Congratulations, you have discovered that I am human. Sue me
Conscience about how vote will affect outcome: I was thinking big picture. The way I saw it, whatever MiX was it was to late for me to make a difference. I was right. I didn't know his alignment, but my biggest reasons to suspect MiX vanished during his, in my opinion, very towny facing of his demise.
Knows the alignment and exaggerates: Again, my best reasons for suspecting him crumbled extremely quickly. Granted, I probably assumed he was town more than I should have, but suddenly having no case against the biggest lynch on the board does that to you.
90 percent post: Just because the average towny has themselves overly convinced doesn't mean me throwing out a random high percent is scummy.
Tunneling only means that you pushed for his lynch, not that you ignored other people. There's nothing scummy about tunneling.
I was just about to say that I don't use it like that, and I don't think people understand it like that.Tunneling only means that you pushed for his lynch, not that you ignored other people. There's nothing scummy about tunneling.
At least that's how I use tunneling. Now that I think about it, that might actually be nonstandard.
Thanks alot. You voted for him. I retracted. Who has the right to be angry here again? Do you think my reaction was fake? If so, disprove my counterpoints to silverspawn.First things first: DANG IT! I knew it! I called it! I started to smell it all to late... RIP MiX. I will avenge you!Damn right. Vote: ari
And I inevitably get flak for it.
And ari just doubles down on the fake moarning thing while also taking this MiX post way too seriously. Vote: arishipshapeTaking the post seriously was MiX's last request! Also, fake? Please, demonstrate with logic and quotes why it was fake! It wasn't! If this was fake, that would be a massive risk to jump off the MiX wagon at the last second, for fear of dismantling it and getting someone else lynched, correct?
Who has the right to be angry here again?Noone. Also I am not angry.
Do you think my reaction was fake?Yes.
If so, disprove my counterpoints to silverspawn.No thanks.
Don't think so. But always better to check with modAlso a rules question:I think LaLight would have let us know if they were a lone Mason. But instead they explicitly talked about a partner. Do you think LaLight lied?
Mod: if Masons are in the setup, are there guaranteed to be at least 2 of them
Also a rules question:
Mod: if Masons are in the setup, are there guaranteed to be at least 2 of them
There's some weird setups where you can get 1 (useless) mason
"Tunneling only means pushing for lynch" If tunneling isn't scummy, then whats wrong with it?Tunneling MiX: What are you talking about? Didn't you read my summary post of other people? What about my argument with Faust?
Tunneling only means that you pushed for his lynch, not that you ignored other people. There's nothing scummy about tunneling.Super fake post: Ok, so I get emotional when the stakes are high and the time is low. Congratulations, you have discovered that I am human. Sue me
I agree that there is nothing inherently scummy about being emotional. What being emotional does is make it harder to fake stuff. Often, I think people reveal their towniness when they're emotional. I think you revealed your scumminess.Conscience about how vote will affect outcome: I was thinking big picture. The way I saw it, whatever MiX was it was to late for me to make a difference. I was right. I didn't know his alignment, but my biggest reasons to suspect MiX vanished during his, in my opinion, very towny facing of his demise.
Knows the alignment and exaggerates: Again, my best reasons for suspecting him crumbled extremely quickly. Granted, I probably assumed he was town more than I should have, but suddenly having no case against the biggest lynch on the board does that to you.
Well, you [as in everyone] can read this explanation and see whether it convinces you90 percent post: Just because the average towny has themselves overly convinced doesn't mean me throwing out a random high percent is scummy.
My argument was not that throwing out the 90 thing was scummy, it was that retracting it was scummy.
"Not angry"Who has the right to be angry here again?Noone. Also I am not angry.Do you think my reaction was fake?Yes.If so, disprove my counterpoints to silverspawn.No thanks.
Damn right. Vote: ariMost people don't throw around the word "damn" without being at least a little angry.
So by my own logic, there would be 2 scum in {Debatepro, shraeye, raerae, mail-mi, LaLight, EFHW, Faust}. Scummiest people there IMO are raerae and Debatepro
So by my own logic, there would be 2 scum in {Debatepro, shraeye, raerae, mail-mi, LaLight, EFHW, Faust}. Scummiest people there IMO are raerae and Debatepro
I gotta admit I DO get a little upset when people tell me they know my emotions better than myself."Not angry"Who has the right to be angry here again?Noone. Also I am not angry.Do you think my reaction was fake?Yes.If so, disprove my counterpoints to silverspawn.No thanks.Damn right. Vote: ariMost people don't throw around the word "damn" without being at least a little angry.
Why do you need to know?So by my own logic, there would be 2 scum in {Debatepro, shraeye, raerae, mail-mi, LaLight, EFHW, Faust}. Scummiest people there IMO are raerae and Debatepro
You've still never given a reason why I'm scummy.
I don't think MiX was scummy, but the more D1 went on, the more likely it was that he was going to become the default lynchSo by my own logic, there would be 2 scum in {Debatepro, shraeye, raerae, mail-mi, LaLight, EFHW, Faust}. Scummiest people there IMO are raerae and Debatepro
Can you explain the math (logic) behind why there are 2 scum in that list? Curious, so i can use in the future.
Why would you include LaLight in this list? Lastly, who is your best guess as LaLight's mason partner?
i think at least one of silver/faust is scum, I've read nothing to move my vote from raerae, still think it's a good chance to catch scum there, DS sounds too inattentive which is weird for him
@faust, why did you vote me? I know you have moved on, but I'd still like to know what you were thinking.You were scummy voting for shraeye there. You were scummy all D1. When you said 338/339, I figured you meant poth posts; I can accept that I was mistaken there. But still it looks to me as though you were trying to derail the wagon on MiX with another town wagon, which is no good. The main reason I'm not voting for you is that ari is even scummier.
I don't think jumping off the MiX wagon was any kind of a smart scum move.Of course it wasn't. But he's new scum, so likely not smart scum.
I knew you were going to say that.I don't think jumping off the MiX wagon was any kind of a smart scum move.Of course it wasn't. But he's new scum, so likely not smart scum.
I mean the most recent time you voted me. I haven't voted anyone yet today. Why would I try to derail Mix's lynch with a different town lynch? You're assuming of course that I knew/know who is town.@faust, why did you vote me? I know you have moved on, but I'd still like to know what you were thinking.You were scummy voting for shraeye there. You were scummy all D1. When you said 338/339, I figured you meant poth posts; I can accept that I was mistaken there. But still it looks to me as though you were trying to derail the wagon on MiX with another town wagon, which is no good. The main reason I'm not voting for you is that ari is even scummier.
Why do you need to know?So by my own logic, there would be 2 scum in {Debatepro, shraeye, raerae, mail-mi, LaLight, EFHW, Faust}. Scummiest people there IMO are raerae and Debatepro
You've still never given a reason why I'm scummy.
Why are you okay with somebody not sharing simple information like that??I am not in the business of trying to change people's behaviour. Joseph obviously shares as much as he thinks best. If tehy're town then who am I to judge? I know their reads, that's plenty.
Why are you okay with people throwing suspicion around with nothing to back it up? I'm not asking him to claim but he's been on my ass since yesterday for NO REASON.There's not no reason, there's just no reason that Joseph cared to share.
It's so easy for scum to be say, "A, B, and C are scummy! Look at me, I'm scum-hunting!" It's harder to give reasons because then you have to actually stand behind them. Can you please explain why you think it's fine that he hasn't said why I'm scummy?If you think this behaviour means that Joseph is scum, then go ahead and vote for them, make a case, whatever. If not, then well they are town trying to play their best town game. It is silly to assume that scum could not present reasons for their reads when pressed.
ari is like MiX. He's putting extra into his posts. With MiX it was irony/sarcasm. With ari it's drama. That's my opinion.It would be nice to hear some opinions from you regarding people's alignments and not just their playstyles.
"Tunneling only means pushing for lynch" If tunneling isn't scummy, then whats wrong with it?
I think refusal to share reasons for things is something we should generally discourage. It can be justified in some scenarios, but most of the time it's not good.
I have.ari is like MiX. He's putting extra into his posts. With MiX it was irony/sarcasm. With ari it's drama. That's my opinion.It would be nice to hear some opinions from you regarding people's alignments and not just their playstyles.
I think refusal to share reasons for things is something we should generally discourage. It can be justified in some scenarios, but most of the time it's not good.
Do you have some examples we can be on the look out for? In my world it's the only thing one can evaluate because anyone can make an assertion.
I think refusal to share reasons for things is something we should generally discourage. It can be justified in some scenarios, but most of the time it's not good.
Do you have some examples we can be on the look out for? In my world it's the only thing one can evaluate because anyone can make an assertion.
There's only reason for it if somebody has information they want to hold on to for a while. For instance, if somebody cop'd somebody and wanted to look at a wagon before sharing that information, that sort of stuff. D1 there's no legitimate reason to not share something unless you know you're not going to be the NK.
I am 99% sure I'll be here for the deadline. My vote stands, although I am wondering whether I should switch to prevent a no-lynch. I thought lynching was almost always superior to not lynching? Anyone care to explain why no-lynching might be better than lynching?In general, it is always good to consolidate votes as deadline approaches. Since you will be here at deadline, you will know if a switch just to prevent no-lynch is needed. DatSwan gave a comprehensive explanation of why no lynch is bad. Why are thinking it is maybe better?
Nah, I swear more often than not, for little to no reason.
Most people don't throw around the word "damn" without being at least a little angry.
Nah, I swear more often than not, for little to no reason.
Most people don't throw around the word "damn" without being at least a little angry.
I think refusal to share reasons for things is something we should generally discourage. It can be justified in some scenarios, but most of the time it's not good.
Do you have some examples we can be on the look out for? In my world it's the only thing one can evaluate because anyone can make an assertion.
There's only reason for it if somebody has information they want to hold on to for a while. For instance, if somebody cop'd somebody and wanted to look at a wagon before sharing that information, that sort of stuff. D1 there's no legitimate reason to not share something unless you know you're not going to be the NK.
No one tell Awaclus I ever said this - but, no... you are incorrect.
Detailed self defense will have wait until after vla. I'll just say that DatSwan had to read very selectively not to see the motivations behind my actions. In case it isn't clear, the L1 MiX vote was entirely to avoid no lynch.You gotta try that no lynch sometime. Embrace it; it's better than you think.
Well that’s a jump from null to a vote, right there.
Not that I disagree with the paths you took to get there, but it is weird.
Also don’t forget yourself in the basket of non-MiXers. There is a scum in
[Uncle, Joseph, SS, Ari, DatSwan]
Detailed self defense will have wait until after vla. I'll just say that DatSwan had to read very selectively not to see the motivations behind my actions. In case it isn't clear, the L1 MiX vote was entirely to avoid no lynch.
I think refusal to share reasons for things is something we should generally discourage. It can be justified in some scenarios, but most of the time it's not good.
Do you have some examples we can be on the look out for? In my world it's the only thing one can evaluate because anyone can make an assertion.
There's only reason for it if somebody has information they want to hold on to for a while. For instance, if somebody cop'd somebody and wanted to look at a wagon before sharing that information, that sort of stuff. D1 there's no legitimate reason to not share something unless you know you're not going to be the NK.
No one tell Awaclus I ever said this - but, no... you are incorrect.
Then correct me.
There is almost for sure at least one skum in [Uncle, Joseph, SS, Ari].Hmmmmmmmm
There is almost for sure at least one skum in [Uncle, Joseph, SS, Ari].Hmmmmmmmm
Situation 1) It is downright mutually considered that Player X is Town. 8/13 players say they think Player X is town. Player X never gets lynched sure... but who do we not have when we wake up the next day?I don't get it. How are these arguments for "sometimes it is valuable to withhold information." Those scenarios seem completely tangential to anybody having a specific piece of info. What info is even being had??? Who has it?? What is it??
Situation 2) It is downright mutually considered that Player X is Skum. 8/13 players say they think Player X is Skum. Player X either gets lynched or is derailed or whatever. If we lynch and are wrong then thats all the same, but if we do not lynch player X they are not left alive and we are sitting there eating WIFOM stew.
Just to be clear I am generally a huge fan of divulging info. I am just pointing out that there is not "literally no reason at all" not to share a specific piece of info.
cooking dinner - quick real world example.
Situation 1) It is downright mutually considered that Player X is Town. 8/13 players say they think Player X is town. Player X never gets lynched sure... but who do we not have when we wake up the next day?
Situation 2) It is downright mutually considered that Player X is Skum. 8/13 players say they think Player X is Skum. Player X either gets lynched or is derailed or whatever. If we lynch and are wrong then thats all the same, but if we do not lynch player X they are not left alive and we are sitting there eating WIFOM stew.
Just to be clear I am generally a huge fan of divulging info. I am just pointing out that there is not "literally no reason at all" not to share a specific piece of info.
Situation 1) It is downright mutually considered that Player X is Town. 8/13 players say they think Player X is town. Player X never gets lynched sure... but who do we not have when we wake up the next day?I don't get it. How are these arguments for "sometimes it is valuable to withhold information." Those scenarios seem completely tangential to anybody having a specific piece of info. What info is even being had??? Who has it?? What is it??
Situation 2) It is downright mutually considered that Player X is Skum. 8/13 players say they think Player X is Skum. Player X either gets lynched or is derailed or whatever. If we lynch and are wrong then thats all the same, but if we do not lynch player X they are not left alive and we are sitting there eating WIFOM stew.
Just to be clear I am generally a huge fan of divulging info. I am just pointing out that there is not "literally no reason at all" not to share a specific piece of info.
Situation 1) It is downright mutually considered that Player X is Town. 8/13 players say they think Player X is town. Player X never gets lynched sure... but who do we not have when we wake up the next day?I don't get it. How are these arguments for "sometimes it is valuable to withhold information." Those scenarios seem completely tangential to anybody having a specific piece of info. What info is even being had??? Who has it?? What is it??
Situation 2) It is downright mutually considered that Player X is Skum. 8/13 players say they think Player X is Skum. Player X either gets lynched or is derailed or whatever. If we lynch and are wrong then thats all the same, but if we do not lynch player X they are not left alive and we are sitting there eating WIFOM stew.
Just to be clear I am generally a huge fan of divulging info. I am just pointing out that there is not "literally no reason at all" not to share a specific piece of info.
What?
It is majority theory concept. If everyone thinks someone is town (without knowing they are town) then the team that KNOWS they are or are not town can use that information to their best case scenario.
Whereas (and again.. I am not promoting this)... but if town never posted anything ever for all of Day 1 (extreme example) Skum would have to pick randomly among town in regards of who to kill at night.
ooooh, and
Vote: UncleEurope
This is treading into a meta discussion which isn't wildly helpful. We disagree and can leave it at that I guess.
@shraeye, got anything other than questions for the crowd tonight?
MiX (6): Debatepro, shraeye, arishipshape, raerae, mail-mi, LaLight
mail-mi (3): silverspawn, MiX, EFHW
raerae (3): Joseph2302, DatSwan, faust
DatSwan (1): Uncleeurope
-----The point to be had here is that the people shifting in and about the MiX wagon very much could of been doing so due to their level of confidence that pretty much everyone, except the potential LL and Faust spots, were not going to move.Good point here. D1 I was looking at that vote count above and asking myself if we could get another decent wagon. There were people off MiX that had said they weren't going to vote raerae, so I didn't think that wagon had a fighting chance. I did not want to lynch mail-mi over MiX, and starting another wagon felt unlikely.
faust, is raerae scummy or not?I guess the best I can say is "somewhat". I don't like that way she is constantly asking for reasons for people voting her. She should rather convince people that she's town through her play. I admit that there may be just some playstyle difference at work here. Then there is the early MiX wagon, which has both ari and raerae on it. I do not think that two scum stay glued to the MiX wagon all Day, and I think ari is scum, which in turn makes raerae a bit townier. But then there is also her D1 wagon, which in comparison to the other wagons seems quite townie and avoided by scum - which would make her scummier. I also put some stock in the opinion of people who know her better - particularly you - and you seem to think that she's town.
ooooh, andNo that seems like a terrible choice.
Vote: UncleEurope
@SS what do you think about Datswan's analysis and conclusions?
-----The point to be had here is that the people shifting in and about the MiX wagon very much could of been doing so due to their level of confidence that pretty much everyone, except the potential LL and Faust spots, were not going to move.Good point here. D1 I was looking at that vote count above and asking myself if we could get another decent wagon. There were people off MiX that had said they weren't going to vote raerae, so I didn't think that wagon had a fighting chance. I did not want to lynch mail-mi over MiX, and starting another wagon felt unlikely.
I have to say I'm a bit weirded out that raerae is the person most vocal about demanding reasons and town's overall way of handling it is to a) ignore her and b) paint her as scummy. It could just be because faust is so persuasive. I think a more reasonable and productive reaction would be to answer whenever she asks and given her null-to-towns for it.
Pointing out that she doesn't do enough other stuff is also like... I mean... if you say "do X please" and then no-one does X, and no-on gives good reasons, of you're you're going to keep asking people to do X
Who is painting her as baddie number one? She does not have a single vote on her.I have to say I'm a bit weirded out that raerae is the person most vocal about demanding reasons and town's overall way of handling it is to a) ignore her and b) paint her as scummy. It could just be because faust is so persuasive. I think a more reasonable and productive reaction would be to answer whenever she asks and given her null-to-towns for it.
Pointing out that she doesn't do enough other stuff is also like... I mean... if you say "do X please" and then no-one does X, and no-on gives good reasons, of you're you're going to keep asking people to do X
Yeah, I don’t get it either, I know I would get frustrated if someone voted for me without providing a reason. *ahem* I read town on her, still, despite people still trying to paint her as baddie number one today. Her reactions have been lining up with what I would expect from a town in that situation much more than a scum. I feel like a scum would be much more prone to shifting tactics after getting this much scrutiny from asking questions.
So by my own logic, there would be 2 scum in {Debatepro, shraeye, raerae, mail-mi, LaLight, EFHW, Faust}. Scummiest people there IMO are raerae and Debatepro
As someone else already said, of the 4 wagons being proposed yesterday, raerae looks like it would have been the best one
Also, no one has yet convinced me that MiX was actually scummy , and so I I'm sure there's some scum on that wagon (at a guess I'd say 2)
faust, what do you think about DatSwan?Not sure. I found him somewhat scummy early on, and then he was absent pretty much the whole time leading up to the deadline. I give some credit to him voting raerae though.
At the time we had 4 wagons, 2 were on (now) known town, one was a crappy wagon on mail-mi and then raerae. raerae is definitely the least scummy place to vote there. But yeah, it's not much obviously.faust, what do you think about DatSwan?Not sure. I found him somewhat scummy early on, and then he was absent pretty much the whole time leading up to the deadline. I give some credit to him voting raerae though.
Credit someone voted for someone whom you have a scumread on? I hope it's not a lot of credit
Fair point, what I should clarify that as, if people still seem to be throwing shade in her direction. Sorry for the hyperbole there. What I am sensing is stuff like this:I'm not painting her as baddie #1, I'm clearly voting for someone else......So by my own logic, there would be 2 scum in {Debatepro, shraeye, raerae, mail-mi, LaLight, EFHW, Faust}. Scummiest people there IMO are raerae and Debatepro
And:As someone else already said, of the 4 wagons being proposed yesterday, raerae looks like it would have been the best one
Also, no one has yet convinced me that MiX was actually scummy , and so I I'm sure there's some scum on that wagon (at a guess I'd say 2)
Possible I am reading too much into this:faust, what do you think about DatSwan?Not sure. I found him somewhat scummy early on, and then he was absent pretty much the whole time leading up to the deadline. I give some credit to him voting raerae though.
Or this:At the time we had 4 wagons, 2 were on (now) known town, one was a crappy wagon on mail-mi and then raerae. raerae is definitely the least scummy place to vote there. But yeah, it's not much obviously.faust, what do you think about DatSwan?Not sure. I found him somewhat scummy early on, and then he was absent pretty much the whole time leading up to the deadline. I give some credit to him voting raerae though.
Credit someone voted for someone whom you have a scumread on? I hope it's not a lot of credit
Just reread (skimmed) the entire day to pull those, so yeah, you are right, not nearly as much of a push for her as my subconscious was telling me, I just caught whiffs of it here and there from Joseph and (kinda) you. My head was telling me it was much more of a consensus because I couldn't remember the specific instances.
Vote Count 1.10
LaLight (4): silverspawn, EFHW, mail-mi, MiX
MiX (4): Debatepro, shraeye, arishipshape, raerae
raerae (3): Joseph2302, faust, DatSwan
mail-mi (1): LaLight
arishipshape (1): Uncleeurope
You seem to have a townread on eddie. Why?Not really sure. I mean... he just feels very town? I could reread at some point to make this more precise, but the priority really is to reread players that are potentially scummy, so probably not.
I'm also not sure that I agree both wagons being town means that not all scum is on them. Particularly if the third wagon (raerae) is also townSo you are saying that scum is more likely to be on the raerae wagon if raerae is scum?
I'm also not sure that I agree both wagons being town means that not all scum is on them. Particularly if the third wagon (raerae) is also townSo you are saying that scum is more likely to be on the raerae wagon if raerae is scum?
Why aren't you challenging faust's distortion of what you said?I'm also not sure that I agree both wagons being town means that not all scum is on them. Particularly if the third wagon (raerae) is also townSo you are saying that scum is more likely to be on the raerae wagon if raerae is scum?
*scratches head* no, actually. I think I don't agree with the argument either way. You were the one who postulated that town wagon -> scum off wagon
Ari, whatchu think about Joseph?Joseph is cool. No issues, relatively active, provides a relatively good amount of information. I have no quarrel with Joseph.
Isn't he the one who is consistently voting for raerae, prompting her to ask "more info please", and then he doesn't give it?Ari, whatchu think about Joseph?Joseph is cool. No issues, relatively active, provides a relatively good amount of information. I have no quarrel with Joseph.
Why aren't you challenging faust's distortion of what you said?I'm also not sure that I agree both wagons being town means that not all scum is on them. Particularly if the third wagon (raerae) is also townSo you are saying that scum is more likely to be on the raerae wagon if raerae is scum?
*scratches head* no, actually. I think I don't agree with the argument either way. You were the one who postulated that town wagon -> scum off wagon
faust, is raerae scummy or not?I guess the best I can say is "somewhat". I don't like that way she is constantly asking for reasons for people voting her. She should rather convince people that she's town through her play. I admit that there may be just some playstyle difference at work here. Then there is the early MiX wagon, which has both ari and raerae on it. I do not think that two scum stay glued to the MiX wagon all Day, and I think ari is scum, which in turn makes raerae a bit townier. But then there is also her D1 wagon, which in comparison to the other wagons seems quite townie and avoided by scum - which would make her scummier. I also put some stock in the opinion of people who know her better - particularly you - and you seem to think that she's town.
Overall I come out at slight scum.
Joseph is the one who has given lots of opinionsIsn't he the one who is consistently voting for raerae, prompting her to ask "more info please", and then he doesn't give it?Ari, whatchu think about Joseph?Joseph is cool. No issues, relatively active, provides a relatively good amount of information. I have no quarrel with Joseph.
Aren't you the one who keeps saying "town needs all info; otherwise terribleness"?
Quotes please.Isn't he the one who is consistently voting for raerae, prompting her to ask "more info please", and then he doesn't give it?Ari, whatchu think about Joseph?Joseph is cool. No issues, relatively active, provides a relatively good amount of information. I have no quarrel with Joseph.
Aren't you the one who keeps saying "town needs all info; otherwise terribleness"?
Scum can tend to be more agreeable than town. Forgot about silver and faust's penchant for turning things around that way.Why aren't you challenging faust's distortion of what you said?I'm also not sure that I agree both wagons being town means that not all scum is on them. Particularly if the third wagon (raerae) is also townSo you are saying that scum is more likely to be on the raerae wagon if raerae is scum?
*scratches head* no, actually. I think I don't agree with the argument either way. You were the one who postulated that town wagon -> scum off wagon
What's your implication, EFHW?
You picking up what I'm putting down, faust? other people? This is my not-black-and-white opinion about faust's not-black-and-white opinion.I don't think I would have posted my opinions on raerae usually because they're still vague. I just said it because you asked. I'd think that, as scum, I would try to take a more black-and-white approach, especially since I pushed raerae D1. But of course WIFOM and maybe not.
You picking up what I'm putting down, faust? other people? This is my not-black-and-white opinion about faust's not-black-and-white opinion.I don't think I would have posted my opinions on raerae usually because they're still vague. I just said it because you asked.
@Ari, @RaeRay, @Mail-Mi, & @Joseph what do you think of DatSwan’s analysis and conclusions in posts #1042-#1045 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg786311#msg786311)?
- Faust votes EFHW (Mix) - can't really blame him. First off, I obviously am making a case on EFHW, so I get that. But also, I do not think skum!faust would leave the MiX wagon at this point in the day just to come back and hammer.
This is a pretty interesting vote count. Right before LaLight's claim.Vote Count 1.10
LaLight (4): silverspawn, EFHW, mail-mi, MiX
MiX (4): Debatepro, shraeye, arishipshape, raerae
raerae (3): Joseph2302, faust, DatSwan
mail-mi (1): LaLight
arishipshape (1): Uncleeurope
So, we do have 2 wagons on town here. It is somewhat doubtful that all scums would be spread across these wagons. That implies that there's a scum (and possibly even more than one) in {Joseph, DatSwan, Eddie}. Which is... unfortunate, as I have this noted as a pretty townie set of players. I think I want to reexamine DatSwan.
@Ari, @RaeRay, @Mail-Mi, & @Joseph what do you think of DatSwan’s analysis and conclusions in posts #1042-#1045 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg786311#msg786311)?
I LOVE that DS has actually given reasons for voting. On the other hand, I don't love that he's tied me with his biggest scumread. I'm not 100% buying the case itself because it seems to hinge on EFHW being on and off MiX's wagon before deadline and I don't think that's terrible scummy. If she'd known she wouldn't be around for deadline and flopped off the wagon after saying we needed to make a call then I'd be more inclined to agree but since she was around the whole time it's not that gross from my perspective. The other thing that makes it iffy for me is that DS has essentially given faust a pass for the same thing he's on EFHW for so that's not great. Specifically this...- Faust votes EFHW (Mix) - can't really blame him. First off, I obviously am making a case on EFHW, so I get that. But also, I do not think skum!faust would leave the MiX wagon at this point in the day just to come back and hammer.
I'm also not sure that I agree both wagons being town means that not all scum is on them. Particularly if the third wagon (raerae) is also town
@Ari, @RaeRay, @Mail-Mi, & @Joseph what do you think of DatSwan’s analysis and conclusions in posts #1042-#1045 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg786311#msg786311)?
I LOVE that DS has actually given reasons for voting. On the other hand, I don't love that he's tied me with his biggest scumread. I'm not 100% buying the case itself because it seems to hinge on EFHW being on and off MiX's wagon before deadline and I don't think that's terrible scummy. If she'd known she wouldn't be around for deadline and flopped off the wagon after saying we needed to make a call then I'd be more inclined to agree but since she was around the whole time it's not that gross from my perspective. The other thing that makes it iffy for me is that DS has essentially given faust a pass for the same thing he's on EFHW for so that's not great. Specifically this...- Faust votes EFHW (Mix) - can't really blame him. First off, I obviously am making a case on EFHW, so I get that. But also, I do not think skum!faust would leave the MiX wagon at this point in the day just to come back and hammer.
@mail-mi, thoughts on Joseph, Debate, and silver?
@mail-mi, thoughts on Joseph, Debate, and silver?
i am honestly barely keeping up right now, I'm currently drowning in homework and overscheduling. I don't like debate too much, ari seems a little fake, silver i've got nothing on, and joseph is joseph. Those are just off the top of my head. I don't know when I'll be able to get into this game, but I hope it'll be soon.
Also I don't have a scum read on you anymore. You seem like your town self.
Vote Count 2.2Could you switch out Dylan by mail-mi here? I am always confused when I look at this.
[image]
arishipshape (3): silverspawn, faust, Uncleeurope
Debatepro (1): Joseph2302
EFHW (1): DatSwan
Uncleeurope (1) shraeye
Not Voting (5): Dylan32, arishipshape, EFHW, raerae, Debatepro
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
Day 2 ends February 11, 2019, 05:00:00 pm
It is notable that the largest portion of MiX's core wagon yesterday - Debatepro, raerae, ari (and also recently shraeye, but he just unvoted) - are all not voting. I would really like to see them push someone other than MiX at some point in this game. The lack of voting so far is stalling the game.Maybe it's because they're scum and haven't decided which mislynch wagon to create/join yet?
EFHW, who is your top scumread?
It is notable that the largest portion of MiX's core wagon yesterday - Debatepro, raerae, ari (and also recently shraeye, but he just unvoted) - are all not voting. I would really like to see them push someone other than MiX at some point in this game. The lack of voting so far is stalling the game.Maybe it's because they're scum and haven't decided which mislynch wagon to create/join yet?
EFHW, who is your top scumread?
The lack of voting so far is stalling the game.Definitely; that's literally the only reason I voted for UncleEurope. I'm actually fairly sure he's town.
This is me forcing you to pick.It is notable that the largest portion of MiX's core wagon yesterday - Debatepro, raerae, ari (and also recently shraeye, but he just unvoted) - are all not voting. I would really like to see them push someone other than MiX at some point in this game. The lack of voting so far is stalling the game.Maybe it's because they're scum and haven't decided which mislynch wagon to create/join yet?
EFHW, who is your top scumread?
I moved to unvote bc clearly the shraeye vote was a blunder?? The most compelling cases to me right now are Ari bc I thought the EOD shenanigans was suspect also (+ss's vote) and EFHW. I want to read EFHW's defense against the DatSwan's case because it seemed compelling. If forced to pick right now, i'd pick one of those two.
It is notable that the largest portion of MiX's core wagon yesterday - Debatepro, raerae, ari (and also recently shraeye, but he just unvoted) - are all not voting. I would really like to see them push someone other than MiX at some point in this game. The lack of voting so far is stalling the game.DatSwan
EFHW, who is your top scumread?
This is me forcing you to pick.It is notable that the largest portion of MiX's core wagon yesterday - Debatepro, raerae, ari (and also recently shraeye, but he just unvoted) - are all not voting. I would really like to see them push someone other than MiX at some point in this game. The lack of voting so far is stalling the game.Maybe it's because they're scum and haven't decided which mislynch wagon to create/join yet?
EFHW, who is your top scumread?
I moved to unvote bc clearly the shraeye vote was a blunder?? The most compelling cases to me right now are Ari bc I thought the EOD shenanigans was suspect also (+ss's vote) and EFHW. I want to read EFHW's defense against the DatSwan's case because it seemed compelling. If forced to pick right now, i'd pick one of those two.
I have no idea what this means, but it certainly has nothing to do with the point I was making.I'm also not sure that I agree both wagons being town means that not all scum is on them. Particularly if the third wagon (raerae) is also town
I mean obviously we would all agree with this assumption (at least I think). The premise being discussed is that Rae (in some opinions) was the skummiest of the wagon options.
3) raerae (no shuffle ID, so IDK, but they have decent content): All in all just too damn paranoid for me to consider as a lynch rn. I am a pretty strong town read on them as of current.. they check all the correct boxes. 1) Frustrated with their wagon (not skummy, no matter what people have said), 2) faust pissing them off (townX1000), 3) They continue to attempt to open new venues of conversation, which is the easiest form of skum hunting in early days to avoid... so skum tends to you know... avoid it.
Well i have changed my mind about preferred lynch based on the last page and a half:
Vote:RaeRae
It is notable that the largest portion of MiX's core wagon yesterday - Debatepro, raerae, ari (and also recently shraeye, but he just unvoted) - are all not voting. I would really like to see them push someone other than MiX at some point in this game. The lack of voting so far is stalling the game.Maybe it's because they're scum and haven't decided which mislynch wagon to create/join yet?
EFHW, who is your top scumread?
I think it's 2 of themIt is notable that the largest portion of MiX's core wagon yesterday - Debatepro, raerae, ari (and also recently shraeye, but he just unvoted) - are all not voting. I would really like to see them push someone other than MiX at some point in this game. The lack of voting so far is stalling the game.Maybe it's because they're scum and haven't decided which mislynch wagon to create/join yet?
EFHW, who is your top scumread?
Scum gains nothing by pausing when they could push for a quick lunch. Also, you calling that the scumteam then, Joseph
I think it's 2 of themIt is notable that the largest portion of MiX's core wagon yesterday - Debatepro, raerae, ari (and also recently shraeye, but he just unvoted) - are all not voting. I would really like to see them push someone other than MiX at some point in this game. The lack of voting so far is stalling the game.Maybe it's because they're scum and haven't decided which mislynch wagon to create/join yet?
EFHW, who is your top scumread?
Scum gains nothing by pausing when they could push for a quick lunch. Also, you calling that the scumteam then, Joseph
Random other thought: Does silver's mistaking raerae/shraeye for newbs mean we can exclude silver/raerae, silver/shraeye as possible scum pairings?
I don't have any quotes of times you didn't call Joseph out for not giving reasons. Because they aren't there.I meant a quote of raerae asking for info. Then I would look in the general vicinity of the quote for Joseph. If he isn't there, I would be forced to agree with you.
You can grab some quotes to correct me, if you'd like.
@Ari, what do you think of DatSwan’s analysis and conclusions in posts #1042-#1045 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg786311#msg786311)?Well, I want to hear EFHWs "detailed self defense" before I come to any conclusions.
Detailed self defense will have wait until after vla. I'll just say that DatSwan had to read very selectively not to see the motivations behind my actions. In case it isn't clear, the L1 MiX vote was entirely to avoid no lynch.
@Everyone voting for me: It would seem that the main reason I seem to be accruing such a wagon is my "fakeness" at the end of day 1 and the beginning of today. Is this correct? If so, then know this: I will gladly never show emotion or consult my fellow townies regarding what to do. Though I will end up making less informed decisions, and be less transparent to the town, it's worth it to avoid looking "fake" and getting lynched.
But it's getting me lynched. Therefore, it's a bad thing. Also, "have" to vote for me? You don't have to vote for me. You could kill yourself.@Everyone voting for me: It would seem that the main reason I seem to be accruing such a wagon is my "fakeness" at the end of day 1 and the beginning of today. Is this correct? If so, then know this: I will gladly never show emotion or consult my fellow townies regarding what to do. Though I will end up making less informed decisions, and be less transparent to the town, it's worth it to avoid looking "fake" and getting lynched.
That answer is missing the point. You're pretending like you having shown emotion is a bad deed that you need to make up for, and that somehow if you promise that we won't have to vote for you. But there's nothing wrong at all with showing emotion. I think it signals your alignment, which is a good thing. We want to figure out other people's alignments.
I applaud your patience.@Everyone voting for me: It would seem that the main reason I seem to be accruing such a wagon is my "fakeness" at the end of day 1 and the beginning of today. Is this correct? If so, then know this: I will gladly never show emotion or consult my fellow townies regarding what to do. Though I will end up making less informed decisions, and be less transparent to the town, it's worth it to avoid looking "fake" and getting lynched.
That answer is missing the point. You're pretending like you having shown emotion is a bad deed that you need to make up for, and that somehow if you promise that we won't have to vote for you. But there's nothing wrong at all with showing emotion. I think it signals your alignment, which is a good thing. We want to figure out other people's alignments.
ari, hwo old are you?Why do you ask? Don't get me wrong, I will immediately answer any strictly game related questions asked. I just don't think that IRL questions will yield as relevant or accurate results, and hesitate to answer them.
Remember, town needs information. I think knowing this would help me determine your alignment.ari, hwo old are you?Why do you ask? Don't get me wrong, I will immediately answer any strictly game related questions asked. I just don't think that IRL questions will yield as relevant or accurate results, and hesitate to answer them.
Remember, town needs information. I think knowing this would help me determine your alignment.ari, hwo old are you?Why do you ask? Don't get me wrong, I will immediately answer any strictly game related questions asked. I just don't think that IRL questions will yield as relevant or accurate results, and hesitate to answer them.
Vote Count 2.2Could you switch out Dylan by mail-mi here? I am always confused when I look at this.
Not Voting (5): Dylan32, arishipshape, EFHW, raerae, Debatepro
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
Day 2 ends February 11, 2019, 05:00:00 pm
I don't think age should matter. And this is a question that could potentially be outing minors. Which we have no real reason to do.Remember, town needs information. I think knowing this would help me determine your alignment.ari, hwo old are you?Why do you ask? Don't get me wrong, I will immediately answer any strictly game related questions asked. I just don't think that IRL questions will yield as relevant or accurate results, and hesitate to answer them.
I echo this, I don’t know if it will change my opinion outright but it has been something nagging at me a bit.
He said he was taking a practice ACT, which probably means high school.Remember, town needs information. I think knowing this would help me determine your alignment.ari, hwo old are you?Why do you ask? Don't get me wrong, I will immediately answer any strictly game related questions asked. I just don't think that IRL questions will yield as relevant or accurate results, and hesitate to answer them.
I echo this, I don’t know if it will change my opinion outright but it has been something nagging at me a bit.
Correct. I am studying for college. Pretty sure that's as specific as I need to get to give Faust his reads. I know town info is uber important, but IRL stuff kinda trumps forum games imho.He said he was taking a practice ACT, which probably means high school.Remember, town needs information. I think knowing this would help me determine your alignment.ari, hwo old are you?Why do you ask? Don't get me wrong, I will immediately answer any strictly game related questions asked. I just don't think that IRL questions will yield as relevant or accurate results, and hesitate to answer them.
I echo this, I don’t know if it will change my opinion outright but it has been something nagging at me a bit.
When we start questioning people's real lives it gets real hard for them to care about this fake one.
I'm over 30 by at least a teenager.
@Ari, @RaeRay, @Mail-Mi, & @Joseph what do you think of DatSwan’s analysis and conclusions in posts #1042-#1045 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg786311#msg786311)?
I asked you for the logic/math behind 2 people on MiX are scummy and your reply in #1020 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg786281#msg786281) doesn't answer my question about how you came to that conclusion. Can you elaborate as I am trying to understand why?
I have no idea what this means, but it certainly has nothing to do with the point I was making.I'm also not sure that I agree both wagons being town means that not all scum is on them. Particularly if the third wagon (raerae) is also town
I mean obviously we would all agree with this assumption (at least I think). The premise being discussed is that Rae (in some opinions) was the skummiest of the wagon options.
No need to lynch me now, this has just killed me.Okay so that wagon analysis is just a long case on why they think EFHW is scummyI'm over 30 by at least a teenager.
For ari, this is me asking Joseph for information and him not being there. You and shraeye were discussing, please continue.
Joseph, why should we join you in voting for Debate? Also, is it safe to assume you're just going to ignore these two posts? If so, can you please explain why you're actively avoiding answering questions.@Ari, @RaeRay, @Mail-Mi, & @Joseph what do you think of DatSwan’s analysis and conclusions in posts #1042-#1045 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg786311#msg786311)?I asked you for the logic/math behind 2 people on MiX are scummy and your reply in #1020 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg786281#msg786281) doesn't answer my question about how you came to that conclusion. Can you elaborate as I am trying to understand why?
And I did already say. The MiX wagon was scummy as fuck. He was clearly just an enthusiastic newbie, which makes me confident that (experienced) scum just jumped on the wagon to help the mislynchIf 1 town found him scummy, why couldn't 6?
As I think the wagon was super scummy, I think it's likely to have more than 1 scum on it. I don't think 6 town could actually have found him scummy rather than just a newbie
If one of six dice landed up with 'two' on top, why couldn't all six?Not sure whether you are supporting my point or arguing against it.
Arguing against it. I think believing that one town supported a bad wagon and that six towns supported a bad wagon are two different things.Yes, but that is really not the distinction made. The wagon had 7 people. If we assume 3 scum, the 4 of them must have been town. That's 4/10 townies. So the a posteriori likelihood of a town scumreading MiX is at least 40%. Then it's really not much more unlikely that 6 towns scumread MiX.
So it is possible to answer that, but not the post immediately afterwards?
Vote: DatSwan
So it is possible to answer that, but not the post immediately afterwards?
Vote: DatSwan
I am sorry for the order in which I answer your questions?
If you read my response you will note the part about it being sarcastic, thus indicating that I assumed the logic behind the original statement was obvious (thus sarcasm). Not being sarcastic - maybe you need to read over my original response? My point was fairly straightforwardly a jokey-type statement.
DatSwan, could you please explain the thought process that led you from here:3) raerae (no shuffle ID, so IDK, but they have decent content): All in all just too damn paranoid for me to consider as a lynch rn. I am a pretty strong town read on them as of current.. they check all the correct boxes. 1) Frustrated with their wagon (not skummy, no matter what people have said), 2) faust pissing them off (townX1000), 3) They continue to attempt to open new venues of conversation, which is the easiest form of skum hunting in early days to avoid... so skum tends to you know... avoid it.
to here:Well i have changed my mind about preferred lynch based on the last page and a half:
Vote:RaeRae
DatSwan, could you please explain the thought process that led you from here:3) raerae (no shuffle ID, so IDK, but they have decent content): All in all just too damn paranoid for me to consider as a lynch rn. I am a pretty strong town read on them as of current.. they check all the correct boxes. 1) Frustrated with their wagon (not skummy, no matter what people have said), 2) faust pissing them off (townX1000), 3) They continue to attempt to open new venues of conversation, which is the easiest form of skum hunting in early days to avoid... so skum tends to you know... avoid it.
to here:Well i have changed my mind about preferred lynch based on the last page and a half:
Vote:RaeRae
So it is possible to answer that, but not the post immediately afterwards?
Vote: DatSwan
I am sorry for the order in which I answer your questions?
If you read my response you will note the part about it being sarcastic, thus indicating that I assumed the logic behind the original statement was obvious (thus sarcasm). Not being sarcastic - maybe you need to read over my original response? My point was fairly straightforwardly a jokey-type statement.
This is the question I was referring to:DatSwan, could you please explain the thought process that led you from here:3) raerae (no shuffle ID, so IDK, but they have decent content): All in all just too damn paranoid for me to consider as a lynch rn. I am a pretty strong town read on them as of current.. they check all the correct boxes. 1) Frustrated with their wagon (not skummy, no matter what people have said), 2) faust pissing them off (townX1000), 3) They continue to attempt to open new venues of conversation, which is the easiest form of skum hunting in early days to avoid... so skum tends to you know... avoid it.
to here:Well i have changed my mind about preferred lynch based on the last page and a half:
Vote:RaeRae
Are you saying that your raerae vote was a joke.
Arguing against it. I think believing that one town supported a bad wagon and that six towns supported a bad wagon are two different things.Yes, but that is really not the distinction made. The wagon had 7 people. If we assume 3 scum, the 4 of them must have been town. That's 4/10 townies. So the a posteriori likelihood of a town scumreading MiX is at least 40%. Then it's really not much more unlikely that 6 towns scumread MiX.
I don't think on/off wagon is a useful distinction for scumhunting today.Arguing against it. I think believing that one town supported a bad wagon and that six towns supported a bad wagon are two different things.Yes, but that is really not the distinction made. The wagon had 7 people. If we assume 3 scum, the 4 of them must have been town. That's 4/10 townies. So the a posteriori likelihood of a town scumreading MiX is at least 40%. Then it's really not much more unlikely that 6 towns scumread MiX.
So you think we should look for skum off of the day 1 wagon?
I. e. you have to come up with a convincing narrative first.DatSwan, could you please explain the thought process that led you from here:3) raerae (no shuffle ID, so IDK, but they have decent content): All in all just too damn paranoid for me to consider as a lynch rn. I am a pretty strong town read on them as of current.. they check all the correct boxes. 1) Frustrated with their wagon (not skummy, no matter what people have said), 2) faust pissing them off (townX1000), 3) They continue to attempt to open new venues of conversation, which is the easiest form of skum hunting in early days to avoid... so skum tends to you know... avoid it.
to here:Well i have changed my mind about preferred lynch based on the last page and a half:
Vote:RaeRae
I am not ignoring this - I am also not answering it now. A lot has happened between now and then and I think it is best to wait before my reasons are known.
And I did already say. The MiX wagon was scummy as fuck. He was clearly just an enthusiastic newbie, which makes me confident that (experienced) scum just jumped on the wagon to help the mislynch
As I think the wagon was super scummy, I think it's likely to have more than 1 scum on it. I don't think 6 town could actually have found him scummy rather than just a newbie
This is a terrible case. vote: DatSwanSo is the reason for your vote OMGUS, or something else as well?
I will be here at the deadline tomorrowSame I think
Ditto I’m around.
Did you read my post? I think making a case this bad on anyone counts as scummy behavior. I was just about to post something else as well, though, which is that he repeatedly tries to make raerae's scumminess seem a general consensus. It obviously is not, or she would be lynched. That is scummy behavior on DatSwan's part.This is a terrible case. vote: DatSwanSo is the reason for your vote OMGUS, or something else as well?
This is a terrible case. vote: DatSwanThe mafia bible agrees with you. And so do I.
And just to be clear, I also reread DatSwan and LaLight and I find both of them to be scummy.vote: DatSwan
That's not a super convincing argument since he is also FOS'ing LL in the same post.This is a terrible case. vote: DatSwanThe mafia bible agrees with you. And so do I.And just to be clear, I also reread DatSwan and LaLight and I find both of them to be scummy.vote: DatSwan
Ok. Unless you want to dismantle your own argument, my vote stands.That's not a super convincing argument since he is also FOS'ing LL in the same post.This is a terrible case. vote: DatSwanThe mafia bible agrees with you. And so do I.And just to be clear, I also reread DatSwan and LaLight and I find both of them to be scummy.vote: DatSwan
I like my argument. Your post sort of "damns it with faint praise."Ok. Unless you want to dismantle your own argument, my vote stands.That's not a super convincing argument since he is also FOS'ing LL in the same post.This is a terrible case. vote: DatSwanThe mafia bible agrees with you. And so do I.And just to be clear, I also reread DatSwan and LaLight and I find both of them to be scummy.vote: DatSwan
Touche.I like my argument. Your post sort of "damns it with faint praise."Ok. Unless you want to dismantle your own argument, my vote stands.That's not a super convincing argument since he is also FOS'ing LL in the same post.This is a terrible case. vote: DatSwanThe mafia bible agrees with you. And so do I.And just to be clear, I also reread DatSwan and LaLight and I find both of them to be scummy.vote: DatSwan
I am not ignoring this - I am also not answering it now. A lot has happened between now and then and I think it is best to wait before my reasons are known.Disagree. I'm waiting on those reasons.
I don't think on/off wagon is a useful distinction for scumhunting today.
Yeah......chapter 1 of the "bible" says LaLight is suspicious. Chapters 2-6 are why I'm scummy.This is a terrible case. vote: DatSwanThe mafia bible agrees with you. And so do I.And just to be clear, I also reread DatSwan and LaLight and I find both of them to be scummy.vote: DatSwan
But I gave my word I would make it my mafia bible! What am I gonna do, break my word like scum would?Yeah......chapter 1 of the "bible" says LaLight is suspicious. Chapters 2-6 are why I'm scummy.This is a terrible case. vote: DatSwanThe mafia bible agrees with you. And so do I.And just to be clear, I also reread DatSwan and LaLight and I find both of them to be scummy.vote: DatSwan
Maybe it's time to lay off that religious fervor a bit....
Just to be clear, nobody's getting lynched until I post what combined shraeye/LaLight Night1 reads were.
Then I invite everybody to think and analyze what Day2 discussions contribute to that.
I am not ignoring this - I am also not answering it now. A lot has happened between now and then and I think it is best to wait before my reasons are known.
Be inconsistent and change your mind, like town.But I gave my word I would make it my mafia bible! What am I gonna do, break my word like scum would?Yeah......chapter 1 of the "bible" says LaLight is suspicious. Chapters 2-6 are why I'm scummy.This is a terrible case. vote: DatSwanThe mafia bible agrees with you. And so do I.And just to be clear, I also reread DatSwan and LaLight and I find both of them to be scummy.vote: DatSwan
Maybe it's time to lay off that religious fervor a bit....
Just to be clear, nobody's getting lynched until I post what combined shraeye/LaLight Night1 reads were.So you are officially claiming IC now, not just taking on the responsbilities.
Then I invite everybody to think and analyze what Day2 discussions contribute to that.
So I haven't really been following, but didn't ari make some big post near the end of day 1 why his (her) read was changing on MiX? I can see that as pushing a mislynch and is a good place for my (albeit unhelpful) vote here: vote: ariCouldn't you look it up first? He did the opposite.
So I haven't really been following, but didn't ari make some big post near the end of day 1 why his (her) read was changing on MiX? I can see that as pushing a mislynch and is a good place for my (albeit unhelpful) vote here: vote: ariHow was any of my super late day 1 posts pushing for a lynch of MiX?
So it is possible to answer that, but not the post immediately afterwards?Vote: DatSwan
Nah, no ari.Would have been too eerie if we agreed on everything.
Ari's a good guy.
No, after.So it is possible to answer that, but not the post immediately afterwards?Vote: DatSwan
In #492 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg785131#msg785131) you made a case that EFHW wasn't getting enough scrutiny for list of actions you found suspect. Did your opinion change before #1042-#1045 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg786311#msg786311)?
Was it a trap?No, after.So it is possible to answer that, but not the post immediately afterwards?Vote: DatSwan
In #492 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg785131#msg785131) you made a case that EFHW wasn't getting enough scrutiny for list of actions you found suspect. Did your opinion change before #1042-#1045 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg786311#msg786311)?
No, but it kind of worked out that way.Was it a trap?No, after.So it is possible to answer that, but not the post immediately afterwards?Vote: DatSwan
In #492 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg785131#msg785131) you made a case that EFHW wasn't getting enough scrutiny for list of actions you found suspect. Did your opinion change before #1042-#1045 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg786311#msg786311)?
Real quick reads list before shraeye does his thing. I've put people in buckets but in no particular order. I've got some very disorganized buckets.Your buckets seem to not include MiX, may he rest in peace. I would personally put him in the "townie" bucket.
Townie:
shraeye
faust
silver
ari
Middlings:
EFHW
mail-mi
Eddie
Debate
Scummy:
DS
Joseph
Real quick reads list before shraeye does his thing. I've put people in buckets but in no particular order. I've got some very disorganized buckets.Your buckets seem to not include MiX, may he rest in peace. I would personally put him in the "townie" bucket.
Townie:
shraeye
faust
silver
ari
Middlings:
EFHW
mail-mi
Eddie
Debate
Scummy:
DS
Joseph
So I haven't really been following, but didn't ari make some big post near the end of day 1 why his (her) read was changing on MiX? I can see that as pushing a mislynch and is a good place for my (albeit unhelpful) vote here: vote: ariCouldn't you look it up first? He did the opposite.
Real quick reads list before shraeye does his thing. I've put people in buckets but in no particular order. I've got some very disorganized buckets.Interesting.
Townie:
shraeye
faust
silver
ari
Middlings:
EFHW
mail-mi
Eddie
Debate
Scummy:
DS
Joseph
Real quick reads list before shraeye does his thing. I've put people in buckets but in no particular order. I've got some very disorganized buckets.Interesting.
Townie:
shraeye
faust
silver
ari
Middlings:
EFHW
mail-mi
Eddie
Debate
Scummy:
DS
Joseph
So you think both me and DS are scummy?
That's interesting. Because I think both you and DS are scummy
Based on the way this day has gone, DS more
No, you made a terrible case. As in scummily misinterpreting events and trying to set up raerae as the next lynch.
I don't know that already. I vote people for making scummy cases all the time. Not all bad cases, just the ones that ignore obvious things and play up meaningless things as scummy.No, you made a terrible case. As in scummily misinterpreting events and trying to set up raerae as the next lynch.
1) The legitimacy of a case is arguably the least important factor regarding reasons to lynch anyone in any game (but you knew that already).
You have no case on me because there is no case on me. You are just either being lazy or you are being skummy. Obviously, my opinion is the latter - but on the off chance I am wrong, and that you are one of the more experienced players in this game - I invite you to try harder.I'm not making a case on you. I'm reacting to your willingness to post a misleading case on me.
Vote: Mail-me because (s)he thinks I am a "great person", which (s)he can't possibly know.
PPE: 1
Both of these.I don't think on/off wagon is a useful distinction for scumhunting today.
Agree; my loud-mouthness probably has ruined that distinction fairly well. It was equally easy to agree or disagree with me for legitimate reasons; looking at people's individual reasoning would still be useful, but just saying "MiX was town, scum was on it" or "it looked like a dangerous position, scum was off it" doesn't really apply.
I am not joking.Vote: Mail-me because he thinks I am a "great person", which he can't possibly know....I hope this is a joke. Also I'm a he
So faust is voting me because I didn't answer something quick enough, EFHW is voting me because I made a "weak case" (no case on me just that I made a weak case), Ari is voting me because MiX skum read me and LL at the end of Day 1 so that means I obviously must be skum (sarcasm), and Joseph because... they find me skummy.
I am confused as to how my wagon has formed so quickly, and without real reason that has merit to it. I guess I will have to go back and try to approach things from a different angle as clearly no one is interested in EFHW right now.
Vote: Ari
Primarily because I don't really have much of an option here, but also because they are the wagon that was running prior to the weak ass one that currently sits on me.
I am not ignoring this - I am also not answering it now. A lot has happened between now and then and I think it is best to wait before my reasons are known.
I'm pretty sure we're over this whole "I'm keeping my reads secret for reasons I'm definitely never going discuss later."
Right, and DebatePro moved his vote.......I'm running out of popsicles.
Right, and DebatePro moved his vote.......I'm running out of popsicles.
Basically what we need right now is a vote count.
Right, and DebatePro moved his vote.......I'm running out of popsicles.Wait i moved my vote before popsicles were on the table. One could argue a popsicle sub-optimal desert, are they a good thing? ???
Right, and DebatePro moved his vote.......I'm running out of popsicles.Wait i moved my vote before popsicles were on the table. One could argue a popsicle sub-optimal desert, are they a good thing? ???
So faust is voting me because I didn't answer something quick enough, EFHW is voting me because I made a "weak case" (no case on me just that I made a weak case), Ari is voting me because MiX skum read me and LL at the end of Day 1 so that means I obviously must be skum (sarcasm), and Joseph because... they find me skummy.
I am confused as to how my wagon has formed so quickly, and without real reason that has merit to it. I guess I will have to go back and try to approach things from a different angle as clearly no one is interested in EFHW right now.
Vote: Ari
Primarily because I don't really have much of an option here, but also because they are the wagon that was running prior to the weak ass one that currently sits on me.
booooo.
I think that's L-1, so triple booooo! Seriously, first person to unvote gets a popsicle. No need to force any claims right now.
I am not ignoring this - I am also not answering it now. A lot has happened between now and then and I think it is best to wait before my reasons are known.
I'm pretty sure we're over this whole "I'm keeping my reads secret for reasons I'm definitely never going discuss later."
Can you just answer this now? Being coy just isn't becoming of anybody this late in the day.
I am not ignoring this - I am also not answering it now. A lot has happened between now and then and I think it is best to wait before my reasons are known.
I'm pretty sure we're over this whole "I'm keeping my reads secret for reasons I'm definitely never going discuss later."
Can you just answer this now? Being coy just isn't becoming of anybody this late in the day.
Not being coy. You should worry less about the reason i found you skummy yesterday that has no effect on anyone right now - and focus on something potentially more relative to the current game state.
I will answer when i see a benefit to answering - sorry.
I am not ignoring this - I am also not answering it now. A lot has happened between now and then and I think it is best to wait before my reasons are known.
I'm pretty sure we're over this whole "I'm keeping my reads secret for reasons I'm definitely never going discuss later."
Can you just answer this now? Being coy just isn't becoming of anybody this late in the day.
Not being coy. You should worry less about the reason i found you skummy yesterday that has no effect on anyone right now - and focus on something potentially more relative to the current game state.
I will answer when i see a benefit to answering - sorry.
Honestly, don't give a single biscuit why you found me scummy. I'm "worried" about why it's such a closely guarded secret.
beep beep, Mail-mi.
Whatchu got?
I am not ignoring this - I am also not answering it now. A lot has happened between now and then and I think it is best to wait before my reasons are known.
I'm pretty sure we're over this whole "I'm keeping my reads secret for reasons I'm definitely never going discuss later."
Can you just answer this now? Being coy just isn't becoming of anybody this late in the day.
Not being coy. You should worry less about the reason i found you skummy yesterday that has no effect on anyone right now - and focus on something potentially more relative to the current game state.
I will answer when i see a benefit to answering - sorry.
Honestly, don't give a single biscuit why you found me scummy. I'm "worried" about why it's such a closely guarded secret.
Not closely guarded at all - Gave literally exact peramaters at the time of where the content came from and then today have actually already essentially said the reason in my case against EFHW. It doesn’t even really matter i have kind of just been dragging it out because i wanted people to focus on EFHW.
Also idk why you would be worried about the reason as i am not pursuing the reason.
@mail-mi, thoughts on Joseph, Debate, and silver?
So faust is voting me because I didn't answer something quick enough,And now there is a second question that you refuse to answer.
Let's pump those breaks and wait for shraeye, team, we don't need a lunch before he gets back.We also don't need to wait and do nothing.
I also don't like the feel of faust's posts. They seem...empty.Give an example.
faust is (IIRC) usually one to like giving and receiving lots of information, and he isn't really doing that this game. It's just weird, not sure if it's towny or scummy. Slightly scummy, I guess.I'm not usually in the business of handing out all my information. If you want to complain about me not receiving it, vote DatSwan, he's the guy who refuses to answer 2 of my questions.
I continue to find faust's posts scummy. For now I'm gonna throw down a vote: faust and see where the rest of this read takes me
responding to debatepro in #1105, I liked it, and I have a scumread on efhw.@mail-mi, thoughts on Joseph, Debate, and silver?
currently, Joseph is decidedly null. He's in a might-maybe-would lynch category, since he hasn't seemed to be contributing much (the pot calling the kettle black unfortunately) but he also seems to be playing in line with his meta.
I currently scumread debate, as has been pointed out in this series of posts
Silver... I get a towny vibe from him. Not anything too strong, but I wouldn't lynch him today.
out of curiosity, datswan, are you actually 96? That's awesome if so
Alright so here is a current reads list following my read:I dislike this reads list.
Scum:
faust
Debatepro
ariship
Slight scum:
Datswan
EFHW
Null:
Joseph
Eddie
Slight town:
raerae
silverspawn
Conf!town:
shraeye
mail-mi
So faust is voting me because I didn't answer something quick enough,And now there is a second question that you refuse to answer.
So faust is voting me because I didn't answer something quick enough,And now there is a second question that you refuse to answer.
What would that second one be again? I have been so wrapped up in refusing to answer the first one.
By the way Swan, can you explain how this:I will be here at the deadline tomorrowSame I think
Ditto I’m around.
fits in with the fact that you did not post in the 24 hours leading up to the deadline?
I also don't like the feel of faust's posts. They seem...empty.Give an example.faust is (IIRC) usually one to like giving and receiving lots of information, and he isn't really doing that this game. It's just weird, not sure if it's towny or scummy. Slightly scummy, I guess.I'm not usually in the business of handing out all my information. If you want to complain about me not receiving it, vote DatSwan, he's the guy who refuses to answer 2 of my questions.
Alright so here is a current reads list following my read:I dislike this reads list.
Scum:
faust
Debatepro
ariship
Slight scum:
Datswan
EFHW
Null:
Joseph
Eddie
Slight town:
raerae
silverspawn
Conf!town:
shraeye
mail-mi
- lists both current wagons as scum but mail-mi votes somewhere else. That's like, trying to keep your options open while at the same time hoping that a wagon goes through without you joining it. Also, literally everyone who ever got a vote today is listed as scummy I think. Talk about opportunistic.
- there are no townreads. Seriously. 5 people are scum or slight scum, but the only townreads are 2 in a "slight town" category. The majority of people here are town, you should have more townreads.
Ah, I figured out how to explain myself! Your posts are very reactionary, and it doesn't seem like you have done a lot of really proactive things this game. That's different than the town!faust I remember.
Ah, I figured out how to explain myself! Your posts are very reactionary, and it doesn't seem like you have done a lot of really proactive things this game. That's different than the town!faust I remember.
Let's test that theory! Just looking at D2.
I am 99% sure i mentioned this already - Jan 31 is Galzria’s birthday. I expected to be around when i posted it and then last minute we planned a celebration. I believe it is in my obnoxiously long post at the beginning of day 2.So faust is voting me because I didn't answer something quick enough,And now there is a second question that you refuse to answer.
What would that second one be again? I have been so wrapped up in refusing to answer the first one.By the way Swan, can you explain how this:I will be here at the deadline tomorrowSame I think
fits in with the fact that you did not post in the 24 hours leading up to the deadline?
I'll be honest, during my read I wasn't even paying attention to the wagons, just individual votes and content of posts. I have no idea where the wagons are at.I love it when posts start with "I'll be honest". So I take it that the rest of your posts was not honest?
Also I guess my reads list wasn't very clear, it could be interpreted as "scum" is my "would lynch," "slight scum" is my "could be persuaded to lynch," and my "slight town" is "most likely won't lynch."
I'll be honest, during my read I wasn't even paying attention to the wagons, just individual votes and content of posts. I have no idea where the wagons are at.I love it when posts start with "I'll be honest". So I take it that the rest of your posts was not honest?
Also I guess my reads list wasn't very clear, it could be interpreted as "scum" is my "would lynch," "slight scum" is my "could be persuaded to lynch," and my "slight town" is "most likely won't lynch."
Nice try to retcon your reads list.
I think you misinterpreted what I meantReal quick reads list before shraeye does his thing. I've put people in buckets but in no particular order. I've got some very disorganized buckets.Interesting.
Townie:
shraeye
faust
silver
ari
Middlings:
EFHW
mail-mi
Eddie
Debate
Scummy:
DS
Joseph
So you think both me and DS are scummy?
That's interesting. Because I think both you and DS are scummy
Based on the way this day has gone, DS more
That's a lie. You found me scummy yesterday too. Don't say "based on how the day has gone" like you had a different opinion yesterday.
Vote: mail-mi
Vote: mail-mi
You don't want to do that.
Vote: mail-mi
You don't want to do that.
This post feels off to me. Like, very off.
Nah; this point doesn't feel either slightly off, or very off to meVote: mail-mi
You don't want to do that.
This post feels off to me. Like, very off.
So suddenly you now think I am town?Vote: mail-mi
You don't want to do that.
This post feels off to me. Like, very off.
why? I am town, faust doesn't and shouldn't want to vote for me. It was also meant to be read in a moderately sarcastic tone.
So suddenly you now think I am town?Vote: mail-mi
You don't want to do that.
This post feels off to me. Like, very off.
why? I am town, faust doesn't and shouldn't want to vote for me. It was also meant to be read in a moderately sarcastic tone.
Also, I don't think that silver was looking good in end-of-Day1 antics.
Ok here's what LaLight and I discussed. I'll sort reads by scummy to towny more or less; some reasoning given, but no quotes (#notreallythatsorry)... Silver in scum bucket...STAY TUNED TO SEE HOW DAY2 HAS CHANGED THESE READS...BUT IN THE MEANTIME DISCUSS PLEASE.
I think the blind trust of Ari is a bit worrisome, but if you (shraeye) don’t want to throw a kill that way I could do some other person, I would maybe recommend a revisit of his posts.
I am in agreement on EFHW and Datswan though it seems that both of them are unlikely to be scum due to the intense feud going on between them. (Though I could be wrong) Mail-mi is tricky, mixed feelings there. Silver is interesting, I initially had him in my scummy bucket but he has since been more active and helpful, so I don’t know. I honestly need to re-evaluate his posts.
When should we expect the sequel?
So maybe I'm reading this wrong but aren't you calling EFHW scummy for the same things that's getting Joseph a nullpass?
But if I am scum and you are town, then wouldn't it be good for me to vote for you? Yet you say I shouldn't want to vote for you as if it is a given that I am town. This indicates that you actually know my alignment.So suddenly you now think I am town?Vote: mail-mi
You don't want to do that.
This post feels off to me. Like, very off.
why? I am town, faust doesn't and shouldn't want to vote for me. It was also meant to be read in a moderately sarcastic tone.
No, though my scumread on you has lessened. But I know I am town, and if you are town, you shouldn't be voting for me
I think the blind trust of Ari is a bit worrisome, but if you (shraeye) don’t want to throw a kill that way I could do some other person, I would maybe recommend a revisit of his posts.Yeah, calling ari my "blind spot" when they give out a townread there for... basically nothing sure is strange. But well. There are enough scummy people here that we can lynch elsewhere and still find scum.
But if I am scum and you are town, then wouldn't it be good for me to vote for you? Yet you say I shouldn't want to vote for you as if it is a given that I am town. This indicates that you actually know my alignment.So suddenly you now think I am town?Vote: mail-mi
You don't want to do that.
This post feels off to me. Like, very off.
why? I am town, faust doesn't and shouldn't want to vote for me. It was also meant to be read in a moderately sarcastic tone.
No, though my scumread on you has lessened. But I know I am town, and if you are town, you shouldn't be voting for me
But silver did say that he was trying to avoid being as emotional this game. So we agreed taht something seemed different, but weren't very sure if it was a conscious evolution of playstyle, or indicative of alignment.
Vote: mail-mi
You don't want to do that.
This post feels off to me. Like, very off.
Shraeye - why do you think LL was killed?
So maybe I'm reading this wrong but aren't you calling EFHW scummy for the same things that's getting Joseph a nullpass?
Huh? Most definitely not. Are those the two people you meant? Huh?
There's a noticable difference in activitySomehow I'm not getting credit for my rereads on MiX, raerae, Lalight, and DatSwan. Those were quite time consuming.
EFHW: ~95 posts
Joseph: ~60 posts
Hence EFHW being "active but not posting". Also, null is not nullpass.
I don't think that has anything to do with activity. The two main reasons for lower activity were a) an exam last Thursday and b) just less stuff that I felt inclined to comment on. It's a bit sobering that my biggest scumread is your biggest townread and your biggest scumread is one of my townreads. I felt quite optimistic about getting this ari lynch to happen until now.
I'm waiting to hear Shraeye's Day 2 comments before responding further to his post.Don't wait
Ok, I disagree with it, and feel it doesn't apply to me any more than other people who were off the main wagons. I don't feel like I was passive or inactive at EOD, but you have only my word that my motives were and are pure. I was a little slow to get into the game, and haven't successfully found scumreads, but that's not for lack of trying. I seem to spend most of my time trying to prevent mislynches instead. Your description feels like a gut memory from impressions rather than a reread, but I'm pretty sure ashersky thinks that's my scumtell, so I probably shouldn't say that. But it's what I think.I'm waiting to hear Shraeye's Day 2 comments before responding further to his post.Don't wait
I don't think that has anything to do with activity. The two main reasons for lower activity were a) an exam last Thursday and b) just less stuff that I felt inclined to comment on. It's a bit sobering that my biggest scumread is your biggest townread and your biggest scumread is one of my townreads. I felt quite optimistic about getting this ari lynch to happen until now.
@ss - Just did a quick skim and I don't see any explicate reads from you about anyone but MiX and Ari in quite some time. You are well regarded player who's analysis could be helpful to town, and you have more than one town read above, can you give us some insight into your reads on everyone?
current reads:First reads list is without townreads. Except for newbies. Which is the set of players scum least wants to mislynch. Anyway this has too many scumreads.
Debatepro - new, null
faust - slight scum rn
mail-mi - the IC that's not dead
silverspawn - is silverspawn, null
Uncleeurope - newbie, willing to give a D1 pass, null otherwise.
DatSwan - slightly scummy
MiX - towny
LaLight - slightly scummy
Joseph2302 - slightly scummy
arishipshape - towny
shraeye - null
EFHW - null-to-scum
raerae - slight scum
The vote on raerae turns out to be only sheeping, which as EFHW I think pointed out is in character for scum!mail-mi.at this point in my reading I'm down for a vote: rae wagon
Any particular reason?
Dunno, I like what everyone else has been saying. It's not strong nor solid by any means. Willing to change for something better.
I'll sheep EFHW on that.Followed by more sheeping.
vote: lalight
This looks like mail-mi has already thought of a narrative to explain his sheeping, which does not make it look better.i think I know mail-mi better than sheeping EFHW into voting me
vote: mail-mi
also, old!highschool!mail-mi was very sheepish as town, which got me mislynched several times. New!college!mail-mi tries to be less sheepy and provide more content, but new!college!extremelybusy!mail-mi is using his old ways.
Vote Count 1.11This is only hours before the deadline. mail-mi seems definitely lynchable. But, two of the people on him are now confirmed town. Scum seems to be avoiding that wagon.
"What each individual wills is obstructed by everyone else, and what emerges is something that no one willed." — Friedrich Engels
MiX (4): Debatepro, shraeye, arishipshape, raerae
raerae (3): Joseph2302, DatSwan, faust
mail-mi (3): LaLight, silverspawn, MiX
LaLight (1): EFHW
DatSwan (1): Uncleeurope
Not Voting (1): mail-mi
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 ends February 01, 2019, 05:00:00 pm. That's in about 6 hours.
It is a classic scum response to a close-to-deadline wagon on them to be hesitant to hop on the opposing wagons.MiX (4): Debatepro, shraeye, arishipshape, raerae
raerae (3): Joseph2302, DatSwan, faust
mail-mi (3): LaLight, silverspawn, MiXLaLight (1): EFHW
DatSwan (1): Uncleeurope
These are the current wagons, with the exception of EFHW being on me. I don't like MiX or raerae particularly right now, and the only other option is DatSwan who has 1 vote on him and I don't even remember him very much in this game.
hm.
i'm on MiX's post #251 and I've got to go to class, but my townread on him has significantly diminished due to this more focused reread of him. for now I will vote: MiX and finish my reread later if I canSo his one townread of D1 suddenly flipped conveniently to free him to vote just before the deadline? I don't buy it. mail-mi just tries to mask a self-preservation vote as something else.
I think that everyone basically already knows it's shraeye, but scum has an incentive to look like they did not consider this at night.so who is LL's partner?
it would be nice to have an IC
Also I don't have a scum read on you anymore. You seem like your town self.Starts townreading raerae when it becomes apparent that the IC does so.
...and right after I posted that my mom called me in for dinner.This post is off. He looks at the vote count and concludes that it makes me scummy, but the only reason I was on MiX here was to get a lynch through. mail-mi even demanded that I vote for MiX just before the Day ended...MiX (7): Debatepro, shraeye, raerae, mail-mi, LaLight, EFHW, Faust
EFHW (2): Uncleeurope, MiX
raerae (2): Joseph2302, DatSwan
mail-mi (1): silverspawn
Not Voting (1): Arishipshape
So here's the wagons with all the people I know are town. I don't think it's raerae, so I'm looking for at least 1 scum in {Debatepro, EFHW, faust}. I had a slight scumread on faust during my inital catch up, and I think I'm willing to go back to that. I have a paper to write tonight so I can't go do a detailed reread, but I am going to go read through day 2 again. I would be comfortable lynching/voting for all 3 of them, at this point.
Alright so here is a current reads list following my read:As pointed out, this reads list is scummy. First of course any reads list is scummy, but listing all current wagons as scum and then voting for a player who does not have a wagon on them is just very convenient.
Scum:
faust
Debatepro
ariship
Slight scum:
Datswan
EFHW
Null:
Joseph
Eddie
Slight town:
raerae
silverspawn
Conf!town:
shraeye
mail-mi
And when I challenge this, he back away and votes... the other scumread with no wagon.Ah, I figured out how to explain myself! Your posts are very reactionary, and it doesn't seem like you have done a lot of really proactive things this game. That's different than the town!faust I remember.
Let's test that theory! Just looking at D2.
you do have a good point sir. I suppose I'm letting a little bit of bias into my reads as well. I'm gonna vote: debatepro for now then.
And this is off. It is not how town reacts to one of their scumreads voting for them. mail-mi is perfectly well aware of the fact that I am town here.Vote: mail-mi
You don't want to do that.
Scum-side
EFHW: Our biggest scumread; we are both in total agreement. I think EFHW is one of the biggest "posting but not active" players; what I do see seems very "leaf on the wind." A bit of that is overall activity, but also a bit more about the final RL days of Day1.
From my perspective, the most votes were happening at the end of Day1 on MiX, LaLight, shraeye, raerae, and mail-mi. Mail-mi's never really felt like "for scumminess" but more for "he's a bit lurker-ish". So out of the 4 most serious wagons, 3 are definitely town, and I'm still confident raerae is town. What I was looking for was this...imagine EVERYBODY there is town. Who's doing the least work to move anything forward. Why put yourself down as the main proponent of a mislynch (for example, I was main proponent of MiX's lynch, and it got me some Day2 votes even though Mason was likely)?? Why not just keep all options open, not rock any boats, and be happy that a mislynch is basically guaranteed. Plus perhaps some claims.
Silver: silver's silence has be a bit concerned; from our recollections there is usually more arguments, more activity. But silver did say that he was trying to avoid being as emotional this game. So we agreed taht something seemed different, but weren't very sure if it was a conscious evolution of playstyle, or indicative of alignment. One specific thing: silver's analysis of wagon in #444 didn't sound genuine to me at all. LaLight thought there might be scum in silver/faust based on their interactions. We're really sure it's not scum/scum. If LaLight is right, then it is silver.
Also, I don't think that silver was looking good in end-of-Day1 antics.
DatSwan: We had some disagreement here; I marked DatSwan as more null, LaLight was more convinced of scum. I started Day1 thinking town, then went null, DatSwan late in the day seemed more scum. LaLight was really suspicious of silent DatSwan, which he said was really uncharacteristic. LaLight says TownSwan has mad skills, and noted that we have observed no mad skills yet.
mail-mi: again, a bit of a disagreement. Some of the reason I found mail-mi scummy on Day1 was related to MiX; now that is obviously null and void. I think LaLight was finding mail-mi scummy independent of this; and would have preferred to lynch mail-mi over MiX. But I am less enthused by the "mail-mi is scum" argument. I think that he hasn't engaged yet in this game.
Now that's a bit different than past reads where I silence made me lean scum. I think EFHW/silver have engaged in the game, but really are failing at being proactive and helpful. mail-mi hasn't reached the engage-stage yet.
I don't want to lynch mail-mi today; but want to keep him in my radar.
Just plain Null
Joseph: yeah. both of us were like "uhhhh, no opinion". I can't wrap myself around joseph's playstyle, and LaLight (who is much better at that) didn't give me any comparisons/examples
Town-side
UncleEurope: Some disagreement here. I thought Uncle felt a bit scummy; one specific thing that stuck with me was when Uncle got frustrated at the Dylan/mail-mi replacement; if Uncle ever turns up scum, I'd fixate on mail-mi QUICK. LaLight disagreed, and convinced me otherwise. This being my retyping of our reads, I can put him on the scummiest side of town (yay bias), but I ended up agreeing with LaLight mostly.
raerae: Disagreement here. LaLight found her scummy, but agreed with my assessment (towny), given that I know her and her style better. Saracasm + challenging hedgers + frustration at sheeping/reasonless votes & opinions. People have cited that as scummy, but that is just how she is; how she approaches mafia-like games. She's giving reads, and making cases, and I'm listening. Raerae is a good scumhunter.
DebatePro: I was null; LaLight said DebatePro was town. Not many details here, but that's how it is.
faust: LaLight was leaning town and I'm whatever-is-past-leaning town. Faust's blindspot is ari; it seems like faust consistently finds Ari scummy for reasons that I just don't buy. I think he'll be even better for town if he can untunnel on that. LaLight was a little worried because of how scary faust can be as scum, I think that's that we were different on.
Ari'sHipShape: Here's one we both instantly agreed on. Ari is town. his intense focus on each argument strikes me as genuine. Although he's being stubborn, this reads as town to me. LaLight agreed and found Ari towny. Another note is the back/forth between ari and raerae make me think that at least one party is being honest. That is, if either end up scum, I'd treat the second one as an IC. However, I don't think either are scum.
- #552 is Joseph saying they do not like LL when the wagons are MiX, Rae, and LL. They are on LL. No opinion on MiX given yet. Great open window for skum.
- #702 is nonsense. Shraeye outright states I do not want to lynch Rae today.. on day 1. The fact that we know Shraeye is Town now holds no merit to this. Skum DOES NOT outright state this for their partner(s) on Day 1. Bus or push a lynch for town cred - yeah sure, depending on the player... but they do not defend on D1. Especially when 2 of the other wagons flip as town... just makes no sense. Obviously, this is also town cred for Rae if Joseph is skum.I've seen scum do it D1 before. Obviously that wasn't the case here though
- Closing in on EOD, they limit their pool to [Swan, Rae, Mail-Mi]Lynch is better than no lynch, everyone here will tell you that
- #709 all of a sudden MiX is an ok lynch choice.
- #722 now they will lynch anyone but Faust, LL, Ari, or them self
Vote: Datswan
That "read" of me was a load of fake bullshit trying to pull a case from nothing
Very scummy
- #702 is nonsense. Shraeye outright states I do not want to lynch Rae today.. on day 1. The fact that we know Shraeye is Town now holds no merit to this. Skum DOES NOT outright state this for their partner(s) on Day 1. Bus or push a lynch for town cred - yeah sure, depending on the player... but they do not defend on D1. Especially when 2 of the other wagons flip as town... just makes no sense. Obviously, this is also town cred for Rae if Joseph is skum.I've seen scum do it D1 before. Obviously that wasn't the case here though
I also l agree with a lot of what faust said about DatSwanMail-mi not DatSwan I mean
I'm wary of sheeping faust this game, because I'm not townreading him. But his case on mail-mi strikes me as really strong. Surprisingly strong particularly given how few posts mail-mi has. I'll hold off on voting until I spend some more time, but for now it's enough to bump him close to ari level of scumminess.
@Swan and Eddie, you posted after it, what's your verdict?
Not me.
Lynch is better than no lynch, everyone here will tell you that
Eddie said Joseph feels disconnected, and confusing DatSwan and mail-mi seems like an excellent example. Often that indicates 3rd faction.Or the three of them could be the scumteam.
@DatSwan: I think your numbers are all 1 too large. Do you base it on something other than the n in the "Reply #n on : ..." in the post header?Numbers are off by one depending on if you list most recent posts first or not.
Give me until after church and I can explain exactly what is going on.
Give me until after church and I can explain exactly what is going on.
Please don't.
Give me until after church and I can explain exactly what is going on.
Please don't.
uh ok. But I should not be lynched.
This is a lot of pointless rambling really. Joseph is townie, we have very good lynch candidates right now and there is no need to build up other ones.Eddie said Joseph feels disconnected, and confusing DatSwan and mail-mi seems like an excellent example. Often that indicates 3rd faction.Or the three of them could be the scumteam.
I disagree. If mail-mi can explain why he is town then I want to hear it.Give me until after church and I can explain exactly what is going on.
Please don't.
uh ok. But I should not be lynched.
If you're responding to a specific case then go ahead but just please don't post an enormous diatribe about how town you are. It doesn't convince anybody and only succeeds in cluttering the thread. Peeps be trying to reread and all.
This is unnecessarily rude.This is a lot of pointless rambling really. Joseph is townie, we have very good lynch candidates right now and there is no need to build up other ones.Eddie said Joseph feels disconnected, and confusing DatSwan and mail-mi seems like an excellent example. Often that indicates 3rd faction.Or the three of them could be the scumteam.
You're right, sorry. But I don't think theories about third parties or triple scum-team calls are helpful at this stage in the game.This is unnecessarily rude.This is a lot of pointless rambling really. Joseph is townie, we have very good lynch candidates right now and there is no need to build up other ones.Eddie said Joseph feels disconnected, and confusing DatSwan and mail-mi seems like an excellent example. Often that indicates 3rd faction.Or the three of them could be the scumteam.
I disagree. If mail-mi can explain why he is town then I want to hear it.Give me until after church and I can explain exactly what is going on.
Please don't.
uh ok. But I should not be lynched.
If you're responding to a specific case then go ahead but just please don't post an enormous diatribe about how town you are. It doesn't convince anybody and only succeeds in cluttering the thread. Peeps be trying to reread and all.
Yes.I disagree. If mail-mi can explain why he is town then I want to hear it.Give me until after church and I can explain exactly what is going on.
Please don't.
uh ok. But I should not be lynched.
If you're responding to a specific case then go ahead but just please don't post an enormous diatribe about how town you are. It doesn't convince anybody and only succeeds in cluttering the thread. Peeps be trying to reread and all.
I disagree with your disagreement. I don't think there's anything he could say to convince you your case is wrong. Is there anybody else you'd be willing to lynch today?
This is a lot of pointless rambling really. Joseph is townie, we have very good lynch candidates right now and there is no need to build up other ones.Eddie said Joseph feels disconnected, and confusing DatSwan and mail-mi seems like an excellent example. Often that indicates 3rd faction.Or the three of them could be the scumteam.
There are already candidates other than mail-mi though.This is a lot of pointless rambling really. Joseph is townie, we have very good lynch candidates right now and there is no need to build up other ones.Eddie said Joseph feels disconnected, and confusing DatSwan and mail-mi seems like an excellent example. Often that indicates 3rd faction.Or the three of them could be the scumteam.
How is Joseph townie? I didn't see you give any reasons when I scanned through? Also, I disagree that mail-mi is a good candidate so, yes, there is reason to have another one.
i am honestly barely keeping up right now, I'm currently drowning in homework and overscheduling. I don't like debate too much, ari seems a little fake, silver i've got nothing on, and joseph is joseph. Those are just off the top of my head. I don't know when I'll be able to get into this game, but I hope it'll be soon.I've been there; I feel what he's feeling. This is not lurking, this is unavailability. I'm throwing down my IC-pass. Lynch mail-mi all you want tomorrow. IT WILLLLL NOOOTTT HAPPEN TODAY. NO.
raerae, why do you think mail-mi is a bad lynch choice?
Josephmail-mi just feels townie. I didn't give any reasons because I can't.
I mean that's fine, i just didn#t remember you voicing that opinion. it#s a much better reason to not lynch mail-mi than what shraeye posted anyway.raerae, why do you think mail-mi is a bad lynch choice?
Don't mean to be a Petty Betty but...Josephmail-mi just feels townie. I didn't give any reasons because I can't.
I did the Uncle-test:Amazing technology these days. I knew about paternity tests, but this just takes it one step further!
Here's something I want to respond to. There ARE townreads, plus with his level of engagement, isn't the more towny thing to lean towards suspicion?? At least that's my instinct; read through, find suspicious stuff.Alright so here is a current reads list following my read:I dislike this reads list.
Scum:
faust
Debatepro
ariship
Slight scum:
Datswan
EFHW
Null:
Joseph
Eddie
Slight town:
raerae
silverspawn
Conf!town:
shraeye
mail-mi
- lists both current wagons as scum but mail-mi votes somewhere else. That's like, trying to keep your options open while at the same time hoping that a wagon goes through without you joining it. Also, literally everyone who ever got a vote today is listed as scummy I think. Talk about opportunistic.
- there are no townreads. Seriously. 5 people are scum or slight scum, but the only townreads are 2 in a "slight town" category. The majority of people here are town, you should have more townreads.
Here's something I want to respond to. There ARE townreads, plus with his level of engagement, isn't the more towny thing to lean towards suspicion?? At least that's my instinct; read through, find suspicious stuff.This reasoning seems to be completely at odds with your reasons to scumread Eddie.
Here's something I want to respond to. There ARE townreads, plus with his level of engagement, isn't the more towny thing to lean towards suspicion?? At least that's my instinct; read through, find suspicious stuff.This reasoning seems to be completely at odds with your reasons to scumread Eddie.
I'm game for DatSwan lynch.
Vote: UncleeuropeWhy not DatSwan?
Having 5 scumreads is not scummy. Casually mentioning 5-6 incidents of suspicion through the course of the day is. mail-mi's reads list did not seem intended to "convince us" or "steer conversation". Uncle's posts did feel like "see what sticks"I fail to see how pointing out things that you noticed while reading is anything but natural town behaviour.
I don't quite get the reluctance to vote for mail-mi. I certainly get that university can be a lot of work, but no-one is arguing that we should lynch mail-mi for lack of activity. The case didn't even mention that.It's just not happening today. Go crazy tomorrow when I'm dead. Whatever you want. But I officially redirect this discussion
I don't quite get the reluctance to vote for mail-mi. I certainly get that university can be a lot of work, but no-one is arguing that we should lynch mail-mi for lack of activity. The case didn't even mention that.It's just not happening today. Go crazy tomorrow when I'm dead. Whatever you want. But I officially redirect this discussion
*redirection intensifies*
faust can you explain in two or fewer sentences what's scummy about DatSwan?His EFHW case cave me the distinct feeling of him being scum having kept me alive in the hope that I would join him in getting EFHW lynched. His cases are bad and he took the scummiest possible position towards the MiX wagon D1: "I don't townread him but I don't want to vote there."
I'm game for DatSwan lynch.Vote: UncleeuropeWhy not DatSwan?
I'm wary of sheeping faust this game, because I'm not townreading him. But his case on mail-mi strikes me as really strong. Surprisingly strong particularly given how few posts mail-mi has. I'll hold off on voting until I spend some more time, but for now it's enough to bump him close to ari level of scumminess.
@Swan and Eddie, you posted after it, what's your verdict?
Mail-mi is scummy, that much I am certain of, and Faust’s case really summarizes why I have that opinion very well. If anything it made me push Mail-mi up a bit in priority.
In other news: I also might be insane, but I am starting to switch my opinion on DatSwan. He (and Faust, really) have just been speaking exactly my thoughts on certain people today. I think that it would be wise to lynch one of Arishipshape, EFHW, Mail-mi, or Joseph today. Possibly in that order of priority... I think, anyway.
I don't quite get the reluctance to vote for mail-mi. I certainly get that university can be a lot of work, but no-one is arguing that we should lynch mail-mi for lack of activity. The case didn't even mention that.It's just not happening today. Go crazy tomorrow when I'm dead. Whatever you want. But I officially redirect this discussion
*redirection intensifies*
*redirection sound comes to a screeching halt*
why why WHY? Lynching a scum TODAY is pretty important. I think ari and mail-mi have significantly better chances of being scum than DatSwan, and far more than EFHW. I'm not just going to go along with you and take mail-mi off the table when the reason doesn't seem to make any sense and isn't even about his alignment.
I don't quite get the reluctance to vote for mail-mi. I certainly get that university can be a lot of work, but no-one is arguing that we should lynch mail-mi for lack of activity. The case didn't even mention that.It's just not happening today. Go crazy tomorrow when I'm dead. Whatever you want. But I officially redirect this discussion
*redirection intensifies*
*redirection sound comes to a screeching halt*
why why WHY? Lynching a scum TODAY is pretty important. I think ari and mail-mi have significantly better chances of being scum than DatSwan, and far more than EFHW. I'm not just going to go along with you and take mail-mi off the table when the reason doesn't seem to make any sense and isn't even about his alignment.
DS specifically said he would lynch me for information. That seems pretty damn scummy to me considering we've got three town dead and presumably will have another after tonight. The time for lynching for info has passed, don't you think?
Here's something I want to respond to. There ARE townreads, plus with his level of engagement, isn't the more towny thing to lean towards suspicion?? At least that's my instinct; read through, find suspicious stuff.This reasoning seems to be completely at odds with your reasons to scumread Eddie.
Just because you notice something that rings your alarm bells somewhere does not mean you scumread them. I think Eddie has communicated his scumreads and townreads fairly well, and I can see the thought process that led him there. Plus mail-mi is scummy for a lot of other things that are bigger than that reads list.Here's something I want to respond to. There ARE townreads, plus with his level of engagement, isn't the more towny thing to lean towards suspicion?? At least that's my instinct; read through, find suspicious stuff.This reasoning seems to be completely at odds with your reasons to scumread Eddie.
I want to hear the flipside of this. If mail-mi is scummy as heck for having "no townreads", is UncleEurope just as scummy? Why or why not?
Why is mail-mi so scummy that you want to revolt on the IC, but you don't want to join me on UncleEurope??I have posted a long and detailed case on mail-mi and am slightly confused about what else you want to hear from me.
Also I don't like being told what to do and you saying the mail-mi is off the table makes it much more exciting to pursue that lynch.
@shraeye, I didn't mention DatSwan because I was responding to someone else's list. I assumed my continued vote on him was clear enough. He is still my first choice.
Won't vote Eddie.
@shraeye, I didn't mention DatSwan because I was responding to someone else's list. I assumed my continued vote on him was clear enough. He is still my first choice.
Won't vote Eddie.
I can explain if I absolutely have to, but would prefer not to just yet.@shraeye, I didn't mention DatSwan because I was responding to someone else's list. I assumed my continued vote on him was clear enough. He is still my first choice.
Won't vote Eddie.
Why?
Nah, don't worry about it.I can explain if I absolutely have to, but would prefer not to just yet.@shraeye, I didn't mention DatSwan because I was responding to someone else's list. I assumed my continued vote on him was clear enough. He is still my first choice.
Won't vote Eddie.
Why?
I can explain if I absolutely have to, but would prefer not to just yet.@shraeye, I didn't mention DatSwan because I was responding to someone else's list. I assumed my continued vote on him was clear enough. He is still my first choice.
Won't vote Eddie.
Why?
Here's something I want to respond to. There ARE townreads, plus with his level of engagement, isn't the more towny thing to lean towards suspicion?? At least that's my instinct; read through, find suspicious stuff.This reasoning seems to be completely at odds with your reasons to scumread Eddie.
Uncle: much scummier
#954 he's wary of DebatePro
#1037 he's wary of DatSwan and Ari
#1038 he's wary of joseph
I fake-voted for him in #1069 just to see what peoepl would do, at that point I had a townread on him. My recollection was that nobody said a thing (other than faust -- "nah" -- and Uncle - "ahem") despite plenty of time to do so. Given how much "wariness" he's thrown around, you think at least one town would have a kneejerk OMGUS attitude to him. We're either way chill, or Uncle is way townier than I understand, or he scum-partners didn't worry too much about the shade he was throwing.
#1260 another thing feels off, another person he's wary of. The total is what now? 5? 6? That's the majority of unknown players, from his perspective.
#1268 agrees that EFHW is scummy. I think he gives townread to Silverspawn here (but is willing to reevaluate)
Ok, I'm going to the gym and pulling raerae with me. You can do a mail-mi reread, sure. But I'm not asking anybody to town-read mail-mi. I'm just saying #pledgenomailmi. EEEEEVEN if he's scum (he's not), he has partners. Get them instead.#pledgenoeddie, too, then.
Here's something I want to respond to. There ARE townreads, plus with his level of engagement, isn't the more towny thing to lean towards suspicion?? At least that's my instinct; read through, find suspicious stuff.This reasoning seems to be completely at odds with your reasons to scumread Eddie.
It's mail-mi pulling together a reads-list. Uncle's case was me noticing sporadic posts all with the same theme
"I'm worried about X"
followed 100 posts later with "I'm worried about Y". No apparent followup, just scattershots of suspicion.
I am not against voting for LL, he is in a similar place to some of my other picks, it is a lot harder to build cases against “Uber-null” and a lot of the time the “Uber-nulls” are the ones to be wary of.
Is there more to the LL case other than being generally unhelpful? I mean it’s okay if there isn’t, I jut am wondering what separates LL from, say, Joseph or EFHW?
Would you say that LL has been less helpful than the rest of the non-talkers? (Of course I had you in that group until your recent surge in activity, so maybe you deserve to still be in that group).
I would say that raerae seems way too aggressive and desperate to be scum, maybe? It really comes down to a gut feeling for me based on rereading her, so I don’t know how to verbalize it as well, but I think she just feels like a town looking for scum to me, just in her own way that people disagree with. Probably.
And shraeye just seems good to me... everyone time I reread the guy I just see town.
Yeah, the reasoning is weak, sorry for that. I will try rereading them both again before death-time to try and formulate something more substantial.
And I also might be wrong, but I don’t think so.
Oh, and I should be ready for deadline time.
I. Refuse. To. Vote. For. Raerae. Today.
Honestly the way people are voting I am only really inclined to vote for LL out of the current wagons. (Though if we got a Swan thing going I could to that.)
In an absolute emergency I would prefer a MiX death to nothing.
PPE a bunch
Ok so the only reason I could make for Eddie being scum is that he's flying under the radar a bit much. Which is... a pretty good reason, actually, generally speaking. but in his case it strikes me more as more of a personality thing.
@Eddie how many games did you play before? I think I recall that you were there in my game before this one (where you got your nickname), so you're not super new, right? If you still have it in memory, which aligments did you play as?
I can explain if I absolutely have to, but would prefer not to just yet.@shraeye, I didn't mention DatSwan because I was responding to someone else's list. I assumed my continued vote on him was clear enough. He is still my first choice.
Won't vote Eddie.
Why?
If I said I was certain, CERTAIN, shraeye was scum and then said my preferred lynch was faust, would you find me scummy for that?
Sorry, missed that. Yes I would. But I didn't say anything like that about mail-mi.I can explain if I absolutely have to, but would prefer not to just yet.@shraeye, I didn't mention DatSwan because I was responding to someone else's list. I assumed my continued vote on him was clear enough. He is still my first choice.
Won't vote Eddie.
Why?
If I said I was certain, CERTAIN, shraeye was scum and then said my preferred lynch was faust, would you find me scummy for that?
Bump for EFHW. Can you answer this one for me, please? Obviously names are hypothetical.
Catching up now
I don't like shraeye telling us not to vote mail-mi, I hope you're right because otherwise saying it was a terrible idea
I won't vote mail-mi today :)
Actually if you're town you know that and he doesn'tCatching up now
I don't like shraeye telling us not to vote mail-mi, I hope you're right because otherwise saying it was a terrible idea
I won't vote mail-mi today :)
Sheep.
I dislike being told who to vote for. Especially by someone who is standing in the same information that I am. (Less if you count me knowing he is town).
Actually if you're town you know that and he doesn'tCatching up now
I don't like shraeye telling us not to vote mail-mi, I hope you're right because otherwise saying it was a terrible idea
I won't vote mail-mi today :)
Sheep.
I dislike being told who to vote for. Especially by someone who is standing in the same information that I am. (Less if you count me knowing he is town).
And I'm willing to trust that as they're sure, they've got reason for it.
So, there is not too much time left to the deadline, and this is going nowhere, and shraeye does not seem in any big hurry to share his current reads, so let me tell everyone why you should vote for mail-mi.current reads:First reads list is without townreads. Except for newbies. Which is the set of players scum least wants to mislynch. Anyway this has too many scumreads.
Debatepro - new, null
faust - slight scum rn
mail-mi - the IC that's not dead
silverspawn - is silverspawn, null
Uncleeurope - newbie, willing to give a D1 pass, null otherwise.
DatSwan - slightly scummy
MiX - towny
LaLight - slightly scummy
Joseph2302 - slightly scummy
arishipshape - towny
shraeye - null
EFHW - null-to-scum
raerae - slight scum
The vote on raerae turns out to be only sheeping, which as EFHW I think pointed out is in character for scum!mail-mi.at this point in my reading I'm down for a vote: rae wagon
Any particular reason?
Dunno, I like what everyone else has been saying. It's not strong nor solid by any means. Willing to change for something better.
I'll sheep EFHW on that.Followed by more sheeping.
vote: lalight
This looks like mail-mi has already thought of a narrative to explain his sheeping, which does not make it look better.i think I know mail-mi better than sheeping EFHW into voting me
vote: mail-mi
also, old!highschool!mail-mi was very sheepish as town, which got me mislynched several times. New!college!mail-mi tries to be less sheepy and provide more content, but new!college!extremelybusy!mail-mi is using his old ways.
Okay, big one here:that is a point I cannot deny, there were some town on my wagon. They were wrong, but they were town.Vote Count 1.11This is only hours before the deadline. mail-mi seems definitely lynchable. But, two of the people on him are now confirmed town. Scum seems to be avoiding that wagon.
"What each individual wills is obstructed by everyone else, and what emerges is something that no one willed." — Friedrich Engels
MiX (4): Debatepro, shraeye, arishipshape, raerae
raerae (3): Joseph2302, DatSwan, faust
mail-mi (3): LaLight, silverspawn, MiX
LaLight (1): EFHW
DatSwan (1): Uncleeurope
Not Voting (1): mail-mi
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 ends February 01, 2019, 05:00:00 pm. That's in about 6 hours.
At this point in the game I didn't have much info on my side. It's really hard for me to get into a game I'm not in from the beginning. That's always been the case for me. So that's a factor that's in play as well, along with my business. And then there was a wagon on me, and I didn't particularly like at the time the wagons on other players. So I was in bind on who to vote for.It is a classic scum response to a close-to-deadline wagon on them to be hesitant to hop on the opposing wagons.MiX (4): Debatepro, shraeye, arishipshape, raerae
raerae (3): Joseph2302, DatSwan, faust
mail-mi (3): LaLight, silverspawn, MiXLaLight (1): EFHW
DatSwan (1): Uncleeurope
These are the current wagons, with the exception of EFHW being on me. I don't like MiX or raerae particularly right now, and the only other option is DatSwan who has 1 vote on him and I don't even remember him very much in this game.
hm.
This is then followed by a major reread of MiX that concludes in this:It was in part self preservation, yes. However in my reread I did see him a scummier. That was not a lie.i'm on MiX's post #251 and I've got to go to class, but my townread on him has significantly diminished due to this more focused reread of him. for now I will vote: MiX and finish my reread later if I canSo his one townread of D1 suddenly flipped conveniently to free him to vote just before the deadline? I don't buy it. mail-mi just tries to mask a self-preservation vote as something else.
Okay, to D2 now. First thing to note is his insistence to see a Mason claim:I hadn't considered it at all. I missed the breadcrums, and even though most knew it was shraeye I would have liked to know for certain. However then someone pointed out that the mason would know best when to claim so I stopped.I think that everyone basically already knows it's shraeye, but scum has an incentive to look like they did not consider this at night.so who is LL's partner?
it would be nice to have an IC
sure didAlso I don't have a scum read on you anymore. You seem like your town self.Starts townreading raerae when it becomes apparent that the IC does so.
I didn't demand that you specifically vote for MiX, just that people should to get a lynch through....and right after I posted that my mom called me in for dinner.This post is off. He looks at the vote count and concludes that it makes me scummy, but the only reason I was on MiX here was to get a lynch through. mail-mi even demanded that I vote for MiX just before the Day ended...MiX (7): Debatepro, shraeye, raerae, mail-mi, LaLight, EFHW, Faust
EFHW (2): Uncleeurope, MiX
raerae (2): Joseph2302, DatSwan
mail-mi (1): silverspawn
Not Voting (1): Arishipshape
So here's the wagons with all the people I know are town. I don't think it's raerae, so I'm looking for at least 1 scum in {Debatepro, EFHW, faust}. I had a slight scumread on faust during my inital catch up, and I think I'm willing to go back to that. I have a paper to write tonight so I can't go do a detailed reread, but I am going to go read through day 2 again. I would be comfortable lynching/voting for all 3 of them, at this point.
any reads list is scummy?! that's new. Again, I wasn't following votes at all, only debate. And the debate seemed to be pointing toward those I had in my scumread list.Alright so here is a current reads list following my read:As pointed out, this reads list is scummy. First of course any reads list is scummy, but listing all current wagons as scum and then voting for a player who does not have a wagon on them is just very convenient.
Scum:
faust
Debatepro
ariship
Slight scum:
Datswan
EFHW
Null:
Joseph
Eddie
Slight town:
raerae
silverspawn
Conf!town:
shraeye
mail-mi
yep I did thatAnd when I challenge this, he back away and votes... the other scumread with no wagon.Ah, I figured out how to explain myself! Your posts are very reactionary, and it doesn't seem like you have done a lot of really proactive things this game. That's different than the town!faust I remember.
Let's test that theory! Just looking at D2.
you do have a good point sir. I suppose I'm letting a little bit of bias into my reads as well. I'm gonna vote: debatepro for now then.
And this is off. It is not how town reacts to one of their scumreads voting for them. mail-mi is perfectly well aware of the fact that I am town here.Vote: mail-mi
You don't want to do that.
I don't quite get the reluctance to vote for mail-mi. I certainly get that university can be a lot of work, but no-one is arguing that we should lynch mail-mi for lack of activity. The case didn't even mention that.It's just not happening today. Go crazy tomorrow when I'm dead. Whatever you want. But I officially redirect this discussion
*redirection intensifies*
*redirection sound comes to a screeching halt*
why why WHY? Lynching a scum TODAY is pretty important. I think ari and mail-mi have significantly better chances of being scum than DatSwan, and far more than EFHW. I'm not just going to go along with you and take mail-mi off the table when the reason doesn't seem to make any sense and isn't even about his alignment.
DS specifically said he would lynch me for information. That seems pretty damn scummy to me considering we've got three town dead and presumably will have another after tonight. The time for lynching for info has passed, don't you think?
I disagree. If mail-mi can explain why he is town then I want to hear it.Give me until after church and I can explain exactly what is going on.
Please don't.
uh ok. But I should not be lynched.
If you're responding to a specific case then go ahead but just please don't post an enormous diatribe about how town you are. It doesn't convince anybody and only succeeds in cluttering the thread. Peeps be trying to reread and all.
I am very surprised by the amount of forced skum points i am being assigned by certain players. I obviously have faith in my reads but the interpretation said cases is what is skummy. People are twisting my words and i am starting to think it is not accidental -
I am at my meet for another few hours so i will expand on that this evening.
Also side note - someone read a town game of mine (any of them) - i never make good cases (self burn)
Sorry, missed that. Yes I would. But I didn't say anything like that about mail-mi.I can explain if I absolutely have to, but would prefer not to just yet.@shraeye, I didn't mention DatSwan because I was responding to someone else's list. I assumed my continued vote on him was clear enough. He is still my first choice.
Won't vote Eddie.
Why?
If I said I was certain, CERTAIN, shraeye was scum and then said my preferred lynch was faust, would you find me scummy for that?
Bump for EFHW. Can you answer this one for me, please? Obviously names are hypothetical.
I currently disagree with some of shraeye's reads. I think debatepro is an excellent lynch for today. I would move datswan up into the lynch pool, but he's a lower priority.DatSwan is in the lynch pool.
Sorry, missed that. Yes I would. But I didn't say anything like that about mail-mi.I can explain if I absolutely have to, but would prefer not to just yet.@shraeye, I didn't mention DatSwan because I was responding to someone else's list. I assumed my continued vote on him was clear enough. He is still my first choice.
Won't vote Eddie.
Why?
If I said I was certain, CERTAIN, shraeye was scum and then said my preferred lynch was faust, would you find me scummy for that?
Bump for EFHW. Can you answer this one for me, please? Obviously names are hypothetical.
You didn't buy Uncle did. Can we put him back on the table now?
I don't quite get the reluctance to vote for mail-mi. I certainly get that university can be a lot of work, but no-one is arguing that we should lynch mail-mi for lack of activity. The case didn't even mention that.It's just not happening today. Go crazy tomorrow when I'm dead. Whatever you want. But I officially redirect this discussion
*redirection intensifies*
*redirection sound comes to a screeching halt*
why why WHY? Lynching a scum TODAY is pretty important. I think ari and mail-mi have significantly better chances of being scum than DatSwan, and far more than EFHW. I'm not just going to go along with you and take mail-mi off the table when the reason doesn't seem to make any sense and isn't even about his alignment.
DS specifically said he would lynch me for information. That seems pretty damn scummy to me considering we've got three town dead and presumably will have another after tonight. The time for lynching for info has passed, don't you think?
I said you were the defn of my “lynch for info” lynch. I never have pushed a vote on you today nor did i try to start your wagon. I simply pointed out reads.
I meant I would move him up into my lynch pool, not the town lynch pool.I currently disagree with some of shraeye's reads. I think debatepro is an excellent lynch for today. I would move datswan up into the lynch pool, but he's a lower priority.DatSwan is in the lynch pool.
I said you were the defn of my “lynch for info” lynch. I never have pushed a vote on you today nor did i try to start your wagon. I simply pointed out reads.
Wait a second, what?
When?
I'm wary of sheeping faust this game, because I'm not townreading him. But his case on mail-mi strikes me as really strong. Surprisingly strong particularly given how few posts mail-mi has. I'll hold off on voting until I spend some more time, but for now it's enough to bump him close to ari level of scumminess.
@Swan and Eddie, you posted after it, what's your verdict?
Mail-mi is scummy, that much I am certain of, and Faust’s case really summarizes why I have that opinion very well. If anything it made me push Mail-mi up a bit in priority.
In other news: I also might be insane, but I am starting to switch my opinion on DatSwan. He (and Faust, really) have just been speaking exactly my thoughts on certain people today. I think that it would be wise to lynch one of Arishipshape, EFHW, Mail-mi, or Joseph today. Possibly in that order of priority... I think, anyway.
I'm game for DatSwan lynch.Vote: UncleeuropeWhy not DatSwan?
Specifically this (bolding is mine):I'm wary of sheeping faust this game, because I'm not townreading him. But his case on mail-mi strikes me as really strong. Surprisingly strong particularly given how few posts mail-mi has. I'll hold off on voting until I spend some more time, but for now it's enough to bump him close to ari level of scumminess.
@Swan and Eddie, you posted after it, what's your verdict?
Mail-mi is scummy, that much I am certain of, and Faust’s case really summarizes why I have that opinion very well. If anything it made me push Mail-mi up a bit in priority.
In other news: I also might be insane, but I am starting to switch my opinion on DatSwan. He (and Faust, really) have just been speaking exactly my thoughts on certain people today. I think that it would be wise to lynch one of Arishipshape, EFHW, Mail-mi, or Joseph today. Possibly in that order of priority... I think, anyway.
Generally: what shraeye said
I don't quite get the reluctance to vote for mail-mi. I certainly get that university can be a lot of work, but no-one is arguing that we should lynch mail-mi for lack of activity. The case didn't even mention that.It's just not happening today. Go crazy tomorrow when I'm dead. Whatever you want. But I officially redirect this discussion
*redirection intensifies*
*redirection sound comes to a screeching halt*
why why WHY? Lynching a scum TODAY is pretty important. I think ari and mail-mi have significantly better chances of being scum than DatSwan, and far more than EFHW. I'm not just going to go along with you and take mail-mi off the table when the reason doesn't seem to make any sense and isn't even about his alignment.
DS specifically said he would lynch me for information. That seems pretty damn scummy to me considering we've got three town dead and presumably will have another after tonight. The time for lynching for info has passed, don't you think?
I said you were the defn of my “lynch for info” lynch. I never have pushed a vote on you today nor did i try to start your wagon. I simply pointed out reads.
Naw, you said I wasn't your preference but you didn't take me off the table. I'll pull the quote when we get home.
I don't quite get the reluctance to vote for mail-mi. I certainly get that university can be a lot of work, but no-one is arguing that we should lynch mail-mi for lack of activity. The case didn't even mention that.It's just not happening today. Go crazy tomorrow when I'm dead. Whatever you want. But I officially redirect this discussion
*redirection intensifies*
*redirection sound comes to a screeching halt*
why why WHY? Lynching a scum TODAY is pretty important. I think ari and mail-mi have significantly better chances of being scum than DatSwan, and far more than EFHW. I'm not just going to go along with you and take mail-mi off the table when the reason doesn't seem to make any sense and isn't even about his alignment.
DS specifically said he would lynch me for information. That seems pretty damn scummy to me considering we've got three town dead and presumably will have another after tonight. The time for lynching for info has passed, don't you think?
I said you were the defn of my “lynch for info” lynch. I never have pushed a vote on you today nor did i try to start your wagon. I simply pointed out reads.
Naw, you said I wasn't your preference but you didn't take me off the table. I'll pull the quote when we get home.
RaeRae - Agree in the sense that I am torn. They currently sit as my "lynch for info" player. And as I have not pushed it at all today, I hope I will be believed when I say I really never wanted their lynch today.
I don't quite get the reluctance to vote for mail-mi. I certainly get that university can be a lot of work, but no-one is arguing that we should lynch mail-mi for lack of activity. The case didn't even mention that.It's just not happening today. Go crazy tomorrow when I'm dead. Whatever you want. But I officially redirect this discussion
*redirection intensifies*
*redirection sound comes to a screeching halt*
why why WHY? Lynching a scum TODAY is pretty important. I think ari and mail-mi have significantly better chances of being scum than DatSwan, and far more than EFHW. I'm not just going to go along with you and take mail-mi off the table when the reason doesn't seem to make any sense and isn't even about his alignment.
DS specifically said he would lynch me for information. That seems pretty damn scummy to me considering we've got three town dead and presumably will have another after tonight. The time for lynching for info has passed, don't you think?
I said you were the defn of my “lynch for info” lynch. I never have pushed a vote on you today nor did i try to start your wagon. I simply pointed out reads.
Naw, you said I wasn't your preference but you didn't take me off the table. I'll pull the quote when we get home.
Right this is accurate - but as i am literally the only person finding you likely at all to be skum, if i am not pushing your lynch.... how is this skummy? Your point was something like it is skummy bc it keeps my options open... open to what? Lynching you isn’t happening today - so yeah don’t think it is skummy as much as you just don’t like it.
What I said was that mail-mi was scummy, not that he was scum. I even say right after that that I moved him up “a bit,” which is a much weaker stance than if I had really meant that I had caught one. I would hope that scum!me could keep his story straight enough to focus on mail-mi after sayin I was certain he was scum.
I think that my other reads are still candidates for lynches.
Of course now I can’t get the image out of my head of a whole bunch of scum cackling about #notmailmi
But I would still prefer a Ari lynch today hence my vote remaining there.
@Joseph - Why did you vote for me in #930 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg786105#msg786105)? What is your current town-to-scum read on me, ss, ari, mail-me, and eddie? Curious, because I don't see you mention any of them but me in day 2 and it could be helpful for town.
I said you were the defn of my “lynch for info” lynch. I never have pushed a vote on you today nor did i try to start your wagon. I simply pointed out reads.
I hate to say it, but calling somebody a "lynch for info" lynch sounds exactly like "I would lynch this person" to me. If you think there's a difference, you used the wrong words.
I said you were the defn of my “lynch for info” lynch. I never have pushed a vote on you today nor did i try to start your wagon. I simply pointed out reads.
I hate to say it, but calling somebody a "lynch for info" lynch sounds exactly like "I would lynch this person" to me. If you think there's a difference, you used the wrong words.
The distinction is that while i may have used the wrong words, and/or while it may be skummy to say “i will lynch someone for info”... that is only if that’s the only reason. I have been going back and forth with Rae all day - i have given reasons other than “just for info”. I could of votes Rae prior to saying the info thing and no one would of batted an eye. Which is one of the things i want to address in regards to people twisting my words. The above thought process is not exactly complicated to follow - people are trying to make me look skummy by taking an isolated line out of context that is generally considered a skummy thing to say and fixating on it.
#930 (or 929 for me)- committing to sticking on one person seems like a bad idea if town i.e. it's scummy@Joseph - Why did you vote for me in #930 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg786105#msg786105)? What is your current town-to-scum read on me, ss, ari, mail-me, and eddie? Curious, because I don't see you mention any of them but me in day 2 and it could be helpful for town.
These questions are perhaps more relevant now, Joseph can you give us some info?
I also don't think Datswan vs raerae is town/town, and so exactly one of them is scum. Right now it would be Datswan IMOFully agree with that
I said you were the defn of my “lynch for info” lynch. I never have pushed a vote on you today nor did i try to start your wagon. I simply pointed out reads.
I hate to say it, but calling somebody a "lynch for info" lynch sounds exactly like "I would lynch this person" to me. If you think there's a difference, you used the wrong words.
The distinction is that while i may have used the wrong words, and/or while it may be skummy to say “i will lynch someone for info”... that is only if that’s the only reason. I have been going back and forth with Rae all day - i have given reasons other than “just for info”. I could of votes Rae prior to saying the info thing and no one would of batted an eye. Which is one of the things i want to address in regards to people twisting my words. The above thought process is not exactly complicated to follow - people are trying to make me look skummy by taking an isolated line out of context that is generally considered a skummy thing to say and fixating on it.
How is it out of context? I quoted your entire read on me.
EFHW what's the reason for #don'tCryUncle?
My own thought was that he said scummy, not scum, and then he said the same thing. Not aggressively pushing someone seems consistent with being a relatively new player. This doesn't change anything for me.
What I said was that mail-mi was scummy, not that he was scum. I even say right after that that I moved him up “a bit,” which is a much weaker stance than if I had really meant that I had caught one. I would hope that scum!me could keep his story straight enough to focus on mail-mi after sayin I was certain he was scum.
I think that my other reads are still candidates for lynches.
Of course now I can’t get the image out of my head of a whole bunch of scum cackling about #notmailmi
But I would still prefer a Ari lynch today hence my vote remaining there.
@EFHW, thoughts and feelings on this defense?
EFHW what's the reason for #don'tCryUncle?
I happen to know, barring some kind of interference, that he took no actions last night. Since scum can't kill and do actions, I would expect each of them to have done something.
I'm a motion detector. I tried to choose someone unlikely to be otherwise targeted so my result could have a chance to be meaningful. There was no motion around him last night.EFHW what's the reason for #don'tCryUncle?
I happen to know, barring some kind of interference, that he took no actions last night. Since scum can't kill and do actions, I would expect each of them to have done something.
So you're assuming they all have night actions beyond a night kill? Why did you follow Uncle?
I didn't believe you at first but I reread your D1 and Uncle is basically the only one other than MiX that you had more than passing conversation with so I'll put a down payment on that result. Motion Detector isn't a guaranteed town role though so I'm not 100% buying it.Even if you bought it, he's not IC, just less likely to be scum than a random player.
@silver, who do you suspect other than ari? Sorry if you already said and I missed it.Bump
I didn't believe you at first but I reread your D1 and Uncle is basically the only one other than MiX that you had more than passing conversation with so I'll put a down payment on that result. Motion Detector isn't a guaranteed town role though so I'm not 100% buying it.Even if you bought it, he's not IC, just less likely to be scum than a random player.
Yeah, less likely to be scum; I agree. Not sure how much less. I'm worried because I don't know if I have any way to tell that this result is a wrench in the spanner that haunts us for the whole game or a brilliant coincidence that saves two people off this silly-IC's lynch list.I didn't believe you at first but I reread your D1 and Uncle is basically the only one other than MiX that you had more than passing conversation with so I'll put a down payment on that result. Motion Detector isn't a guaranteed town role though so I'm not 100% buying it.Even if you bought it, he's not IC, just less likely to be scum than a random player.
Vote: JosephUnhelpful and scum are two different things. Do you have a larger scumread on him than DS?
The justification for his scum read is weak, I don’t find his analysis actively helpful to town.
Which justification? I feel out of that loop.Ok, found it :)
I'm fine with DatSwan lynch. I think EFHW's information (plus other various thoughts) changes the order of reads to be (scum on top)
DatSwan
silverSpawn
Joseph
UncleEurope
DebatePro
Ari
>>
gap
>>
faust
mailmi
raerae
EFHW
I'm trying to figure out future reads based on that lynch. If DatSwan is scum, then XXXX. If DatSwan is towny, then YYYY. I'm not sure right now.
I'll sum up a couple reasons here:I am supposed to buy that you are too busy to be engaged in the game as town, but not busy enough to not be engaged in the game as scum?
- A lot of my disconnectedness can be explained because I am busy.
- It's hard for me to get into a game that I'm not in from the start.
- I like being scum more than I like being town. If I was scum this game I would be more involved. As it is, I am town, and so i am less inclined to be involved.
Vote: JosephThis vote isn't of much use right now.
The justification for his scum read is weak, I don’t find his analysis actively helpful to town.
I'll sum up a couple reasons here:I am supposed to buy that you are too busy to be engaged in the game as town, but not busy enough to not be engaged in the game as scum?
- A lot of my disconnectedness can be explained because I am busy.
- It's hard for me to get into a game that I'm not in from the start.
- I like being scum more than I like being town. If I was scum this game I would be more involved. As it is, I am town, and so i am less inclined to be involved.
I think you are working quite hard at being engaged actually. So I guess this is only further evidence that you are scum.I'll sum up a couple reasons here:I am supposed to buy that you are too busy to be engaged in the game as town, but not busy enough to not be engaged in the game as scum?
- A lot of my disconnectedness can be explained because I am busy.
- It's hard for me to get into a game that I'm not in from the start.
- I like being scum more than I like being town. If I was scum this game I would be more involved. As it is, I am town, and so i am less inclined to be involved.
I would work harder at being engaged while I'm here, that's what I was getting at.
well then you and I can think differently because I'm still very detached from this game. Also I'm town so.I think you are working quite hard at being engaged actually. So I guess this is only further evidence that you are scum.I'll sum up a couple reasons here:I am supposed to buy that you are too busy to be engaged in the game as town, but not busy enough to not be engaged in the game as scum?
- A lot of my disconnectedness can be explained because I am busy.
- It's hard for me to get into a game that I'm not in from the start.
- I like being scum more than I like being town. If I was scum this game I would be more involved. As it is, I am town, and so i am less inclined to be involved.
I would work harder at being engaged while I'm here, that's what I was getting at.
mail-mi, your vote is pointless on DebatePro. Decide between DatSwan and ari. Who would you rather lynch?
We should give him a chance to post before that, right?Yes, I would have just hammered otherwise.
That's what I needed to hear.Really?
Intent to hammer.
Since I am currently voting for ari, I would have a hard time hammering him.That's what I needed to hear.Really?
Intent to hammer.
Ari over DatSwan? Seems like a mistake to me
silverSpawn
right now, ari > mail-mi > joseph would be my top three lynches@silver, who do you suspect other than ari? Sorry if you already said and I missed it.Bump
faust can you explain in two or fewer sentences what's scummy about DatSwan?His EFHW case cave me the distinct feeling of him being scum having kept me alive in the hope that I would join him in getting EFHW lynched. His cases are bad and he took the scummiest possible position towards the MiX wagon D1: "I don't townread him but I don't want to vote there."
@faust: do you think that mail mi's voting choice is significant enough to make DatSwan preferable over ari? Was he close before?Yes. Yes.
vote: ari for now. If it's between him and DatSwan it's an easy choice
Oh I was still voting for him anyway.And this is... bizarre. You come in here with 2 people at L-1, don't check the vote count, don't even remember where you are voting currently. It's just... what the hell?
And this is... bizarre. You come in here with 2 people at L-1, don't check the vote count, don't even remember where you are voting currently. It's just... what the hell?
And this is... bizarre. You come in here with 2 people at L-1, don't check the vote count, don't even remember where you are voting currently. It's just... what the hell?
I guess that was sloppy. I didn't think ari was that close and I knew Jopseh was close since you announced intent to hammer.
I'm really not a morning person....Since I am currently voting for ari, I would have a hard time hammering him.That's what I needed to hear.Really?
Intent to hammer.
Ari over DatSwan? Seems like a mistake to me
Oh I was still voting for him anyway.I think ari is town and Datswan probably isn't
@faust: do you think that mail mi's voting choice is significant enough to make DatSwan preferable over ari? Was he close before?
@Joseph: why?
With a possible exception...dun dun DUUUNNNNIs it mail-mi?
mail-mi is still the scummiest one around here, but you guys are all a bunch of sheeple. Especially raerae. She just stopped having any opinions of her own ever since shraeye started posting his reads.
Vote: ari
You mean DatSwan...?
Well, silver just moved waaayyy up my scum list. So does debatePro. datSwan is still #1.
Well, silver just moved waaayyy up my scum list. So does debatePro. datSwan is still #1.
Why? Whatever about what just happened makes you think I'm more likely scum than town? Whatever it is, it's not a useful criterion to determine my alignment.
Vote: Datswan
FFS I was trying to fake hammer to see if I could get any useful reactionsVote: Datswan
Were you intending this as a hammer without posting intent?
Don't do thatWell, silver just moved waaayyy up my scum list. So does debatePro. datSwan is still #1.
Why? Whatever about what just happened makes you think I'm more likely scum than town? Whatever it is, it's not a useful criterion to determine my alignment.
Good point; put Joseph up by DebatePro as possible partners for you and DatSwan.
FFS I was trying to fake hammer to see if I could get any useful reactionsVote: Datswan
Were you intending this as a hammer without posting intent?
Which you've spoilt now
Nah it's fine. I'm just trying to make something happen. This game is stalling because we have an intent to hammer that is going to happen, but Datswan isn't around to postFFS I was trying to fake hammer to see if I could get any useful reactionsVote: Datswan
Were you intending this as a hammer without posting intent?
Which you've spoilt now
I'll try to read your mind better next time. Frankly, considering all the forgetful voting and the fact that I don't have the biggest town read on you I figured you really did think you were hammering.
So DebatePro, haven't seen you around too much since the LaLight/shraeye summary. What are your thoughts on the recent occurrences?
My Day2 updates? the great mail-mi debate? EFHW's info? votes on DatSwan?
Weird for you to pop in and worry only about what Joseph was saying about you.
1215 voted fo
FFS I was trying to fake hammer to see if I could get any useful reactionsVote: Datswan
Were you intending this as a hammer without posting intent?
Which you've spoilt now
I'll try to read your mind better next time. Frankly, considering all the forgetful voting and the fact that I don't have the biggest town read on you I figured you really did think you were hammering.
FFS I was trying to fake hammer to see if I could get any useful reactionsVote: Datswan
Were you intending this as a hammer without posting intent?
Which you've spoilt now
I'll try to read your mind better next time. Frankly, considering all the forgetful voting and the fact that I don't have the biggest town read on you I figured you really did think you were hammering.
I’m confused, did Joseph’s vote hammer DS or not? How could it be a fake hammer?
Is anybody who can hammer actually going to be around for EOD?
Is anybody who can hammer actually going to be around for EOD?Faust posted intent to hammer, so I expect they'll be back to hammer at some point
All of this is with the caveat: "IF DatSwan is scum..." obviously. But I think it's true.
Silver comes in, sees a neck-and-neck between DatSwan and ari. sloppy votes Ari despite a vague "intent to hammer" (in the a.m. hours, I had to double read to see if faust announced intent on DatSwan or intent on ari)....forgets who the other person in the neck-and-neck, so important I better not even check the details first vote...?
So, everyone who is not on ariship yet (debate, mail-mi) should consider going on there. Everyone who is on the datswan wagon should consider switching.Based on what?
So, everyone who is not on ariship yet (debate, mail-mi) should consider going on there. Everyone who is on the datswan wagon should consider switching.Actually mail-mi already is on ari, ari is at L-1 and in total this is quite the scummy post. Noone else should vote for ari without declaring intent.
So, everyone who is not on ariship yet (debate, mail-mi) should consider going on there. Everyone who is on the datswan wagon should consider switching.
Should have ppe-1.
So, everyone who is not on ariship yet (debate, mail-mi) should consider going on there. Everyone who is on the datswan wagon should consider switching.Based on what?
So, everyone who is not on ariship yet (debate, mail-mi) should consider going on there. Everyone who is on the datswan wagon should consider switching.
Now I know what UoS means wrt votes in the middle of text being easier to miss. Replace 'vote' with 'intent to hammer'I haven't heard any case on ari since he was described as displaying fake emotionality. Is that still the heart of your case?So, everyone who is not on ariship yet (debate, mail-mi) should consider going on there. Everyone who is on the datswan wagon should consider switching.Based on what?
based on ari having the better case on him
This is great info, definitely helps me see a town-DebatePro narrativeSo DebatePro, haven't seen you around too much since the LaLight/shraeye summary. What are your thoughts on the recent occurrences?
My Day2 updates? the great mail-mi debate? EFHW's info? votes on DatSwan?
Weird for you to pop in and worry only about what Joseph was saying about you.
I had to change my vote because you said we can't vote for Mail-mi. My initial vote there was a pressure him to get into the game kind of vote, then faust came in and made a case, so I left my vote there, until you said thou shall not vote for MM. There was a vote count request by EFHW and i didn't want to be on mail-me in that vote. If my count was right and i voted for DS, that would have been the hammer. So I also have to announce my intent to hammer and while that is the way I am leaning between ARI and DS... im gun-shy.
Hypothetical, I hammer and DS is town, how easy is it for scum to make a case against me. I would have voted for MiX and been the hammer on DS. That seems like a bad position for a newb.me to be in when some people are doubting my towniness. If you want me to prove my towniness and the only way to do that is to hammer DS, i'll do it.
Joseph was also on your list of suspects, i found his analysis of me to be narrowed on my first post in day 2, despite what i think was a pretty well thought out and researched defense of my read on rae (#1132), who you've also pegged as town. Some might argue your explicate inclusion of rae on your team happened after that post.
Ari - he's getting a "my daughter who is his age could have made the the same plays" pass for day 1 and 2 sans the "kill yourself comment"
EFHW - seems like a legit town claim, not sure how we know for sure unless DS is lynched (see above why i'm hesitant).
As far as my play, i kind of took my lead from you with your questions to players about there reads on certain players to flush out info and get them on the record, for example:
SS - what are your reads besides debatepro and ari. Don't think we've seen an answer. #1285
Joseph - why did you vote for debate & what do you think about mail-mi, ari, debate, and ss. #1259
Joseph - #1169 which i think is some pretty deft analysis on why joseph's story should be considered suspect.
1215 voted fo
Hypothetical, I hammer and DS is town, how easy is it for scum to make a case against me. I would have voted for MiX and been the hammer on DS. That seems like a bad position for a newb.me to be in when some people are doubting my towniness. If you want me to prove my towniness and the only way to do that is to hammer DS, i'll do it.Straight VoteCountAnalysis like this always seems shortsighted and more or less lazy. I'm all about the narrative. Did your vote line up with your analysis? Was it derpy ( a la silver's)? Was it pure sheeping? Does that fit your character?
Now I know what UoS means wrt votes in the middle of text being easier to miss. Replace 'vote' with 'intent to hammer'I haven't heard any case on ari since he was described as displaying fake emotionality. Is that still the heart of your case?So, everyone who is not on ariship yet (debate, mail-mi) should consider going on there. Everyone who is on the datswan wagon should consider switching.Based on what?
based on ari having the better case on him
If we do not hear from DatSwan, I will hammer 2 hours before the deadline.
So, everyone who is not on ariship yet (debate, mail-mi) should consider going on there. Everyone who is on the datswan wagon should consider switching.
There's no need to vote for ari unless you think Ari is scum (pretty sure he's not). Also, I think anybody following this post would make an oopsy-hammer that you failed to pull off earlier. Sooooo, still scummy as heck.
Faust jammer 45 minutes ahead of inteades after a cop claim could be skummy. Weird at the minimum.I said I will hammer then if you don't show up. You did show up.
Faust jammer 45 minutes ahead of inteades after a cop claim could be skummy. Weird at the minimum.That's not "could be scummy" that's auto lynch material. You don't hammer a CLAIMED COP when there is an alternative lynch available and no-one has even had the chance to unvote.
39 LP semesterThe acronym you are looking for is ECTS.
I hammered so noone would be stupid and unvote yes. That claim was the scummiest thing that ever happened.Faust jammer 45 minutes ahead of inteades after a cop claim could be skummy. Weird at the minimum.That's not "could be scummy" that's auto lynch material. You don't hammer a CLAIMED COP when there is an alternative lynch available and no-one has even had the chance to unvote.
was kinda baiting the quick hammer - surprised it came from where it did thoRight, a 2-shot Cop with 1 shot left is baiting a quickhammer ::)
Well despite how anti town it is to hammer a claimed cop, I have to admit that this sounds unlikely.was kinda baiting the quick hammer - surprised it came from where it did thoRight, a 2-shot Cop with 1 shot left is baiting a quickhammer ::)
was kinda baiting the quick hammer - surprised it came from where it did thoRight, a 2-shot Cop with 1 shot left is baiting a quickhammer ::)
Have you flipped? I didn't think so. You are just playing this out to prevent further discussion here. Which is of course the smart move for scum here because the mods have announced limited availability and it might be a long twilight.was kinda baiting the quick hammer - surprised it came from where it did thoRight, a 2-shot Cop with 1 shot left is baiting a quickhammer ::)
You are arguing with a conf!town about my approach man. Lol there is no “i might be skum” here anymore. If i say i did it for a reason, that’s the reason i did it.
And re: not lynching claimed PRs, that is a silly policy in a closed game where scum can just fakeclaim whatever.
Even if DatSwan is town, scum blocked him last night and so they could block him again. We learn nothing and forgo a lynch on someone who is very likely scum anyway. Plus if DatSwan is scum, then by letting him live we are giving him what he wants. It is very possible that this way we saved the IC because we lynched scum's Strongman.And re: not lynching claimed PRs, that is a silly policy in a closed game where scum can just fakeclaim whatever.
He did not claim one-shot bulletproof or something, he claimed to be a cop with a new shot for tonight. What's better, 1. lynch him or 2. wait, see if scum NKs him, if not let him use the shot and lynch him tomorrow? If he's scum, we've delayed a lynch for one day. If he's town, we get a chance to lynch scum today (like ari) which is basically the analogous thing, and we get a result. This seems pretty clear cut to me.
Have you flipped? I didn't think so. You are just playing this out to prevent further discussion here. Which is of course the smart move for scum here because the mods have announced limited availability and it might be a long twilight.was kinda baiting the quick hammer - surprised it came from where it did thoRight, a 2-shot Cop with 1 shot left is baiting a quickhammer ::)
You are arguing with a conf!town about my approach man. Lol there is no “i might be skum” here anymore. If i say i did it for a reason, that’s the reason i did it.
Even if DatSwan is town, scum blocked him last night and so they could block him again. We learn nothing and forgo a lynch on someone who is very likely scum anyway. Plus if DatSwan is scum, then by letting him live we are giving him what he wants. It is very possible that this way we saved the IC because we lynched scum's Strongman.And re: not lynching claimed PRs, that is a silly policy in a closed game where scum can just fakeclaim whatever.
He did not claim one-shot bulletproof or something, he claimed to be a cop with a new shot for tonight. What's better, 1. lynch him or 2. wait, see if scum NKs him, if not let him use the shot and lynch him tomorrow? If he's scum, we've delayed a lynch for one day. If he's town, we get a chance to lynch scum today (like ari) which is basically the analogous thing, and we get a result. This seems pretty clear cut to me.
I do not think EFHW is lying actually.
Which means they are town, so throw that in when you do the read.
Although, the one thing to mention would be the mass of people stating they thought there had to be one skum in me and efhw (so the claim could of been pro active defense knowing I would flip green).
Also, whoever said that there must be one skum is probably skummy.
OK I have to take the dogs out - if it is open when I am back I will see if there was anything else I was holding onto.
Even if DatSwan is town, scum blocked him last night and so they could block him again. We learn nothing and forgo a lynch on someone who is very likely scum anyway. Plus if DatSwan is scum, then by letting him live we are giving him what he wants. It is very possible that this way we saved the IC because we lynched scum's Strongman.And re: not lynching claimed PRs, that is a silly policy in a closed game where scum can just fakeclaim whatever.
He did not claim one-shot bulletproof or something, he claimed to be a cop with a new shot for tonight. What's better, 1. lynch him or 2. wait, see if scum NKs him, if not let him use the shot and lynch him tomorrow? If he's scum, we've delayed a lynch for one day. If he's town, we get a chance to lynch scum today (like ari) which is basically the analogous thing, and we get a result. This seems pretty clear cut to me.
These are decent arguments, but they don't excuse the quick in the quickhammer. why doesn't the IC get to chime in on this?
I think fausts hammer was excellent; still expect DatSwan to flip scum.
So sorry, relatives came over, didn’t expect. Anyways, it would seem I’m almost dead. Let’s fix that. I’m the Neapolitan enabler. You murder me, neapolitans can’t investigate. I’ll defend myself more tonight.You were safe as Datswan is lynched
Weird claim, ari. especially because the day is done and you did not get lynched.I’m not still at l1? Did I miss something? I am on mobile...
If all claims so far are true, then we have outed every town PR. which means that the Neapolitan enabler has nobody to enable. Possible. But weird.
I'm leaning more that there are untrue claims. I think fausts hammer was excellent; still expect DatSwan to flip scum.
Crap. Now I’m deadThis has to be the fakest fake post that has ever been faked
I mean maybe you're right, certainly it seems like some of the claims have to be lies. But how you can approve of hammering someone without asking you first is beyond me. What if you hadn't liked it?I'm hammer-happy.
disagree.Crap. Now I’m deadThis has to be the fakest fake post that has ever been faked
silverspawn is a likely partner, due to weirdness
sighdisagree.Crap. Now I’m deadThis has to be the fakest fake post that has ever been faked
I swear, I thought I was still at l-1!
Not that I even agree that I'm weird, mind you. I think hammering a cop is far weirder than anything I've done.hammering a shady cop claim after seeing as many PRs as we have is not as scummy as oopsie-hammering after somebody had stated intent to hammer.
Let's see....if DatSwan is town...then I think Ari's claim is much less believable (as a town role, at least)
Still believe EFHW and raerae are town. Those are my two towniest reads. Very town.
How are you suspicious of me? I’m uncced neap enabler.Let's see....if DatSwan is town...then I think Ari's claim is much less believable (as a town role, at least)
Still believe EFHW and raerae are town. Those are my two towniest reads. Very town.
Back to DatSwan. If he's town, then I'm much more suspicious of mail-mi. slightly more suspicious of ari. Much much much less suspicious of silverspawn.
So I'd look into mail-mi/Joseph....annnnnd Uncle? DebatePro? ari possibly.
How are you suspicious of me? I’m uncced neap enabler.Let's see....if DatSwan is town...then I think Ari's claim is much less believable (as a town role, at least)
Still believe EFHW and raerae are town. Those are my two towniest reads. Very town.
Back to DatSwan. If he's town, then I'm much more suspicious of mail-mi. slightly more suspicious of ari. Much much much less suspicious of silverspawn.
So I'd look into mail-mi/Joseph....annnnnd Uncle? DebatePro? ari possibly.
Oh. They are in 10 minute mafiaHow are you suspicious of me? I’m uncced neap enabler.Let's see....if DatSwan is town...then I think Ari's claim is much less believable (as a town role, at least)
Still believe EFHW and raerae are town. Those are my two towniest reads. Very town.
Back to DatSwan. If he's town, then I'm much more suspicious of mail-mi. slightly more suspicious of ari. Much much much less suspicious of silverspawn.
So I'd look into mail-mi/Joseph....annnnnd Uncle? DebatePro? ari possibly.
This is the "if DatSwan is town" theory. There are only so many PRs running around. And it's not out of line that Neapolotan Enabler is a scum role. So you lying, or omitting the full story are both possible. Not all un-counter-claimed things are auto-town.
How are you suspicious of me? I’m uncced neap enabler.
In fact, this question makes you look MORE suspicious. Enough that I'm willing to say that Ari is suspect #1 in this scenario. Replace mail-mi entirely. make itHow are you suspicious of me? I’m uncced neap enabler.Let's see....if DatSwan is town...then I think Ari's claim is much less believable (as a town role, at least)
Still believe EFHW and raerae are town. Those are my two towniest reads. Very town.
Back to DatSwan. If he's town, then I'm much more suspicious of mail-mi. slightly more suspicious of ari. Much much much less suspicious of silverspawn.
So I'd look into mail-mi/Joseph....annnnnd Uncle? DebatePro? ari possibly.
What?? If I were scum, I would have KNOWN uncced enabler could be scum!In fact, this question makes you look MORE suspicious. Enough that I'm willing to say that Ari is suspect #1 in this scenario. Replace mail-mi entirely. make itHow are you suspicious of me? I’m uncced neap enabler.Let's see....if DatSwan is town...then I think Ari's claim is much less believable (as a town role, at least)
Still believe EFHW and raerae are town. Those are my two towniest reads. Very town.
Back to DatSwan. If he's town, then I'm much more suspicious of mail-mi. slightly more suspicious of ari. Much much much less suspicious of silverspawn.
So I'd look into mail-mi/Joseph....annnnnd Uncle? DebatePro? ari possibly.
ari
joseph
Uncle/debatePro
mail-mi becomes way more town the more sure I am that Ari is scum.
Yes Datswan was already hammered....Weird claim, ari. especially because the day is done and you did not get lynched.I’m not still at l1? Did I miss something? I am on mobile...
If all claims so far are true, then we have outed every town PR. which means that the Neapolitan enabler has nobody to enable. Possible. But weird.
I'm leaning more that there are untrue claims. I think fausts hammer was excellent; still expect DatSwan to flip scum.
UPDATE:I think it's a distinct possibility. That role doesn't sound very pro-town
I HIGHLY SUSPECT ARI IS TELLING THE TRUTH ABOUT HIS ROLE BUT IS SCUM. Soooo, yup; good thought exercise.
I'm... not dead? Wow. I guess killing the neap is just as good, if not better than killing me. But that's still a risk. Man, we just can't seem to lynch right like, ever. I'm gonna go re-read mail-mi.
On what grounds?I'm... not dead? Wow. I guess killing the neap is just as good, if not better than killing me. But that's still a risk. Man, we just can't seem to lynch right like, ever. I'm gonna go re-read mail-mi.
Vote: Arishipshape
I'm... not dead? Wow. I guess killing the neap is just as good, if not better than killing me. But that's still a risk. Man, we just can't seem to lynch right like, ever. I'm gonna go re-read mail-mi.
On what grounds?I'm... not dead? Wow. I guess killing the neap is just as good, if not better than killing me. But that's still a risk. Man, we just can't seem to lynch right like, ever. I'm gonna go re-read mail-mi.
Vote: Arishipshape
I'm... not dead? Wow. I guess killing the neap is just as good, if not better than killing me. But that's still a risk. Man, we just can't seem to lynch right like, ever. I'm gonna go re-read mail-mi.You're not dead because you could be scum.....
Well, yea. Everyone who is alive is not dead because they could be scum (except the obvious confirmed and stuff).I'm... not dead? Wow. I guess killing the neap is just as good, if not better than killing me. But that's still a risk. Man, we just can't seem to lynch right like, ever. I'm gonna go re-read mail-mi.You're not dead because you could be scum.....
Not the person I expected to die though
Also I said D2 that I think Datswan vs raerae wasn't town/town. And I still believe that.
So honestly I think ari and raerae are both scum
And before raerae argues about me "tunnelling all game", I will point out I thought Datswan and not her was scum yesterday
Agree, scumpoints to ari for that intro.I expected you to be NKed as a claimed PR
mail-mi is a surprising choice, given that he had significant suspicion yesterday, we have an IC, and my claim was generally seen as towny. Did mail-mi claim and I missed it? He did soft claim a pr very loudly. I'll check when at a computer if he breadcrumbed an N1 result.
This is a suggestion, and only a suggestion:
If we have an unclaimed PR, should they claim ASAP?
We're in a bad situation, and them claiming means someone (ari) is lying and at least we can start lynching scum
PPE: 1
...and right after I posted that my mom called me in for dinner.Couldn't wait for a computer. He seems to indicate raerae here. She was an obvious investigative choice N1, so that makes sense.MiX (7): Debatepro, shraeye, raerae, mail-mi, LaLight, EFHW, Faust
EFHW (2): Uncleeurope, MiX
raerae (2): Joseph2302, DatSwan
mail-mi (1): silverspawn
Not Voting (1): Arishipshape
So here's the wagons with all the people I know are town. I don't think it's raerae, so I'm looking for at least 1 scum in {Debatepro, EFHW, faust}. I had a slight scumread on faust during my inital catch up, and I think I'm willing to go back to that. I have a paper to write tonight so I can't go do a detailed reread, but I am going to go read through day 2 again. I would be comfortable lynching/voting for all 3 of them, at this point.
Much better version of what I saidThis is a suggestion, and only a suggestion:
If we have an unclaimed PR, should they claim ASAP?
We're in a bad situation, and them claiming means someone (ari) is lying and at least we can start lynching scum
PPE: 1
No? I mean, we can have the IC set up a claiming order and then massclaim. Why wouldn't we want to do that?
This is a suggestion, and only a suggestion:Definitely not. If we have another pr, they might be able to catch scum in a lie. And we'd really get zero information about ari, since he could have his claimed role as scum.
If we have an unclaimed PR, should they claim ASAP?
We're in a bad situation, and them claiming means someone (ari) is lying and at least we can start lynching scum
PPE: 1
This is not thinking, past my bedtime!Joseph.This is a suggestion, and only a suggestion:Definitely not. If we have another pr, they might be able to catch scum in a lie. And we'd really get zero information about ari, since he could have his claimed role as scum.
If we have an unclaimed PR, should they claim ASAP?
We're in a bad situation, and them claiming means someone (ari) is lying and at least we can start lynching scum
PPE: 1
vote: Joseph
Still waiting for those grounds.On what grounds?I'm... not dead? Wow. I guess killing the neap is just as good, if not better than killing me. But that's still a risk. Man, we just can't seem to lynch right like, ever. I'm gonna go re-read mail-mi.
Vote: Arishipshape
In class, not that interested in explaining it to you anyway, but it probably won’t happen in the next several hours regardless.Even if you don't care about explaining it to me, the rest of the town has a right to know your reasoning
What I don’t understand is how scum knew mail-me had a PR? It can’t be a lucky shot right, he wasn’t helping town with his analysis or activity, why kill him over a better town player or someone who actually made a claim?
They believed his hints.What I don’t understand is how scum knew mail-me had a PR? It can’t be a lucky shot right, he wasn’t helping town with his analysis or activity, why kill him over a better town player or someone who actually made a claim?
Could be a Rolecop, I think. Though that would mean a lucky target at n1.
I'm a motion detector. I tried to choose someone unlikely to be otherwise targeted so my result could have a chance to be meaningful. There was no motion around him last night.EFHW what's the reason for #don'tCryUncle?
I happen to know, barring some kind of interference, that he took no actions last night. Since scum can't kill and do actions, I would expect each of them to have done something.
So you're assuming they all have night actions beyond a night kill? Why did you follow Uncle?
Waiting for Shraeye to set a claim order.I'm a motion detector. I tried to choose someone unlikely to be otherwise targeted so my result could have a chance to be meaningful. There was no motion around him last night.EFHW what's the reason for #don'tCryUncle?
I happen to know, barring some kind of interference, that he took no actions last night. Since scum can't kill and do actions, I would expect each of them to have done something.
So you're assuming they all have night actions beyond a night kill? Why did you follow Uncle?
I don’t claim to know how this works, I just read the wiki. Who did you target in N2 and what was the result?
Also I said D2 that I think Datswan vs raerae wasn't town/town. And I still believe that.No; raerae was definitely mail-mi's N1 target. He didn't say much important on day2, but in almost everyother post he affirms raerae's towniness.
So honestly I think ari and raerae are both scum
And before raerae argues about me "tunnelling all game", I will point out I thought Datswan and not her was scum yesterday
Let's continue letting people wake up for the day. Claims is a future order of business.Waiting for Shraeye to set a claim order.I'm a motion detector. I tried to choose someone unlikely to be otherwise targeted so my result could have a chance to be meaningful. There was no motion around him last night.EFHW what's the reason for #don'tCryUncle?
I happen to know, barring some kind of interference, that he took no actions last night. Since scum can't kill and do actions, I would expect each of them to have done something.
So you're assuming they all have night actions beyond a night kill? Why did you follow Uncle?
I don’t claim to know how this works, I just read the wiki. Who did you target in N2 and what was the result?
Even if DatSwan is town, scum blocked him last night and so they could block him again. We learn nothing and forgo a lynch on someone who is very likely scum anyway. Plus if DatSwan is scum, then by letting him live we are giving him what he wants. It is very possible that this way we saved the IC because we lynched scum's Strongman.And re: not lynching claimed PRs, that is a silly policy in a closed game where scum can just fakeclaim whatever.
He did not claim one-shot bulletproof or something, he claimed to be a cop with a new shot for tonight. What's better, 1. lynch him or 2. wait, see if scum NKs him, if not let him use the shot and lynch him tomorrow? If he's scum, we've delayed a lynch for one day. If he's town, we get a chance to lynch scum today (like ari) which is basically the analogous thing, and we get a result. This seems pretty clear cut to me.
I agree ari's suspicious and the easy lynch but I'm still not convinced. I am highly suspicious of everybody claiming complete ignorance to mail-mi being the cop. He wasn't dropping breadcrumbs, he was throwing whole loaves at anybody who would listen.If I die, neapolitans investigations will return "no reading". I did nothing on those nights.
ari, what does your power do again? What did you do last night? What did you do the night before?
In class, not that interested in explaining it to you anyway, but it probably won’t happen in the next several hours regardless.Even if you don't care about explaining it to me, the rest of the town has a right to know your reasoning
I think we need to look very seriously at faust at this point, given his case on mail-mi and the hammer of DatSwan.No. That makes no sense. If I was scum who knew mail-mi's role, then pursuing that lynch does not help me - he would only claim, which leaves me in the same position as before.
Sidenote, if you're going to quote me, at least give me cred.I didn't quote you. I might have, by coincidence, typed the same words you have typed before. But i don't recall you ever typing those words.In class, not that interested in explaining it to you anyway, but it probably won’t happen in the next several hours regardless.Even if you don't care about explaining it to me, the rest of the town has a right to know your reasoning
Sidenote, if you're going to quote me, at least give me cred.I didn't quote you. I might have, by coincidence, typed the same words you have typed before. But i don't recall you ever typing those words.In class, not that interested in explaining it to you anyway, but it probably won’t happen in the next several hours regardless.Even if you don't care about explaining it to me, the rest of the town has a right to know your reasoning
Meh, whatcha think about aI basically think what I just said in the post above...
Vote: EFHW,
faust?
Meh, whatcha think about aI basically think what I just said in the post above...
Vote: EFHW,
faust?
You should consider that if her role really was a fakeclaim, then scum!EFHW would have had no way of knowing that her result on Uncle was the correct one. Even if she say, Rolecopped him, it would still have been possible that someone else targeted Eddie, thus outing her.Meh, whatcha think about aI basically think what I just said in the post above...
Vote: EFHW,
faust?
Yeah, I didn't look at the PPE, bad habit but habit nonetheless. Anyway, I think I like my vote there. I didn't see as much town in her claim as you did.
I think we need to look very seriously at faust at this point, given his case on mail-mi and the hammer of DatSwan.No. That makes no sense. If I was scum who knew mail-mi's role, then pursuing that lynch does not help me - he would only claim, which leaves me in the same position as before.
And the hammer of DatSwan, I have no regrets. His claim read like a fakeclaim because it was a fakeclaim. Which only goes to show again: Don't lie as town, folks.
Just take the obvious facts for now2 should not be surprising given 1.
1. Everyone faust ever made a case on was town. Ariship probably isn't but that doesn't count; I was making the case and he just sheeped it.
2. It's faust and he's still alive day 3
3. He hammered a claimed cop without the IC getting to decide whether to unvote. If you don't think this is scummy you're just wrong.
How did I miss that? /super annoyed at myself and him.I think we need to look very seriously at faust at this point, given his case on mail-mi and the hammer of DatSwan.No. That makes no sense. If I was scum who knew mail-mi's role, then pursuing that lynch does not help me - he would only claim, which leaves me in the same position as before.
And the hammer of DatSwan, I have no regrets. His claim read like a fakeclaim because it was a fakeclaim. Which only goes to show again: Don't lie as town, folks.
Seriously though, the fact that silver is using the "faust is alive" argument should be enough to prove his scumminess. Scum killed a Mason N1 and a Neapolitan N2. Obviously both were higher priority targets than me.
I think everyone can just read end of D2 for themselves and decide whether silver is
a) trying to convince people that they should vote ari
b) trying to signal as loud as possible that he disapproves of the DatSwan wagon.
I don't even remember being all that upset about the DatSwan wagon until the claim.This is not what I mean. You made it very clear that you would not vote for DatSwan because ari was the better choice. You did not try to convince people, you just yelled "vote ari". You did not to my knowledge engage Debatepro, who was the only one off both wagons, to try and convince them to hammer ari. It was very clear at that point that DatSwan would be the lynch, and you tried your best to milk your bus on your scumpartner for towncred.
So basically you're accusing me of not putting more effort into persuading people? Otherwise, what do you think I would have done differently as town?Basically yes. Alternatively I could see town!you seeing that trying to get ari lynched is hopeless and move somewhere else in hopes to get a scum lynch.
This is not too hard, really. shraeye is town. raerae is town. EFHW I really doubt that she would do that fakeclaim as scum. Which in turn renders Eddie townie. This shrinks the lynchpool to just
ari, silver, Joseph, Debatepro, faust
I am also town, which granted may not be obvious to you. Thus we have 4 people to pick from for scum. PoE is strong here. And this is also why I think a massclaim will do no good.
I'm not buying it, because if what you say is true then I know the scum are ari, silver, and joseph which isn't likely because SS pushed ari hard in the last day.Why does that make it not likely?
I think you are not this careless and are pushing another mislynch. Furthermore something in your analysis is incorrect namely: faust, EFHW, and/or Eddie should be removed from the list of potentials.I do not get what you are saying... all of those are removed from my list.
You should consider that if her role really was a fakeclaim, then scum!EFHW would have had no way of knowing that her result on Uncle was the correct one. Even if she say, Rolecopped him, it would still have been possible that someone else targeted Eddie, thus outing her.Meh, whatcha think about aI basically think what I just said in the post above...
Vote: EFHW,
faust?
Yeah, I didn't look at the PPE, bad habit but habit nonetheless. Anyway, I think I like my vote there. I didn't see as much town in her claim as you did.
I was surprised to see faust give him town status in his POE. He's not IC. If ari is scum, he has a passive role and would have showed no motion if no one targeted him. There could be another.You should consider that if her role really was a fakeclaim, then scum!EFHW would have had no way of knowing that her result on Uncle was the correct one. Even if she say, Rolecopped him, it would still have been possible that someone else targeted Eddie, thus outing her.Meh, whatcha think about aI basically think what I just said in the post above...
Vote: EFHW,
faust?
Yeah, I didn't look at the PPE, bad habit but habit nonetheless. Anyway, I think I like my vote there. I didn't see as much town in her claim as you did.
You're assuming he's town here, a fact I'm not convinced of either.
No, the argument still stands even if Eddie is scum.You should consider that if her role really was a fakeclaim, then scum!EFHW would have had no way of knowing that her result on Uncle was the correct one. Even if she say, Rolecopped him, it would still have been possible that someone else targeted Eddie, thus outing her.Meh, whatcha think about aI basically think what I just said in the post above...
Vote: EFHW,
faust?
Yeah, I didn't look at the PPE, bad habit but habit nonetheless. Anyway, I think I like my vote there. I didn't see as much town in her claim as you did.
You're assuming he's town here, a fact I'm not convinced of either.
This is not too hard, really. shraeye is town. raerae is town. EFHW I really doubt that she would do that fakeclaim as scum. Which in turn renders Eddie townie. This shrinks the lynchpool to just
ari, silver, Joseph, Debatepro, faust
I am also town, which granted may not be obvious to you. Thus we have 4 people to pick from for scum. PoE is strong here. And this is also why I think a massclaim will do no good.
I'm not buying it, because if what you say is true then I know the scum are ari, silver, and joseph which isn't likely because SS pushed ari hard in the last day. ...
You should consider that if her role really was a fakeclaim, then scum!EFHW would have had no way of knowing that her result on Uncle was the correct one. Even if she say, Rolecopped him, it would still have been possible that someone else targeted Eddie, thus outing her.Meh, whatcha think about aI basically think what I just said in the post above...
Vote: EFHW,
faust?
Yeah, I didn't look at the PPE, bad habit but habit nonetheless. Anyway, I think I like my vote there. I didn't see as much town in her claim as you did.
You're assuming he's town here, a fact I'm not convinced of either.
He's not IC, but he is my strongest (non-confirmed) townread and for him to be scum he has to have a passive role and not have committed the nightkill, which makes him roughly a third as likely to be scum as any other unconfirmed player.I was surprised to see faust give him town status in his POE. He's not IC. If ari is scum, he has a passive role and would have showed no motion if no one targeted him. There could be another.You should consider that if her role really was a fakeclaim, then scum!EFHW would have had no way of knowing that her result on Uncle was the correct one. Even if she say, Rolecopped him, it would still have been possible that someone else targeted Eddie, thus outing her.Meh, whatcha think about aI basically think what I just said in the post above...
Vote: EFHW,
faust?
Yeah, I didn't look at the PPE, bad habit but habit nonetheless. Anyway, I think I like my vote there. I didn't see as much town in her claim as you did.
You're assuming he's town here, a fact I'm not convinced of either.
No, the argument still stands even if Eddie is scum.You should consider that if her role really was a fakeclaim, then scum!EFHW would have had no way of knowing that her result on Uncle was the correct one. Even if she say, Rolecopped him, it would still have been possible that someone else targeted Eddie, thus outing her.Meh, whatcha think about aI basically think what I just said in the post above...
Vote: EFHW,
faust?
Yeah, I didn't look at the PPE, bad habit but habit nonetheless. Anyway, I think I like my vote there. I didn't see as much town in her claim as you did.
You're assuming he's town here, a fact I'm not convinced of either.
If Eddie is scum, EFHW still could not know whether some townie targeted Eddie, in which case her result would be wrong and she would be called out.No, the argument still stands even if Eddie is scum.You should consider that if her role really was a fakeclaim, then scum!EFHW would have had no way of knowing that her result on Uncle was the correct one. Even if she say, Rolecopped him, it would still have been possible that someone else targeted Eddie, thus outing her.Meh, whatcha think about aI basically think what I just said in the post above...
Vote: EFHW,
faust?
Yeah, I didn't look at the PPE, bad habit but habit nonetheless. Anyway, I think I like my vote there. I didn't see as much town in her claim as you did.
You're assuming he's town here, a fact I'm not convinced of either.
I don't understand. If they're both scum she could easily be lying about motion surrounding her partner. Regardless, let's move on for a minute.
D1, you said there was probably a strongman, got any thoughts and feelings on that now?
If Eddie is scum, EFHW still could not know whether some townie targeted Eddie, in which case her result would be wrong and she would be called out.No, the argument still stands even if Eddie is scum.You should consider that if her role really was a fakeclaim, then scum!EFHW would have had no way of knowing that her result on Uncle was the correct one. Even if she say, Rolecopped him, it would still have been possible that someone else targeted Eddie, thus outing her.Meh, whatcha think about aI basically think what I just said in the post above...
Vote: EFHW,
faust?
Yeah, I didn't look at the PPE, bad habit but habit nonetheless. Anyway, I think I like my vote there. I didn't see as much town in her claim as you did.
You're assuming he's town here, a fact I'm not convinced of either.
I don't understand. If they're both scum she could easily be lying about motion surrounding her partner. Regardless, let's move on for a minute.
D1, you said there was probably a strongman, got any thoughts and feelings on that now?
I don't think it is beneficial for me to answer your other question.
I think scum!EFHW claims Tracker over Motion Detector there 100% of the time. Unless she is actually a scum Motion Detector, in which case it makes zero sense for her to have targeted scumpartner!Eddie and little sense to claim to save town!Eddie.
I agree ari's suspicious and the easy lynch but I'm still not convinced. I am highly suspicious of everybody claiming complete ignorance to mail-mi being the cop. He wasn't dropping breadcrumbs, he was throwing whole loaves at anybody who would listen.
There is currently no evidence for a third faction, so I am treating this as town v mafia.I think scum!EFHW claims Tracker over Motion Detector there 100% of the time. Unless she is actually a scum Motion Detector, in which case it makes zero sense for her to have targeted scumpartner!Eddie and little sense to claim to save town!Eddie.
We're just going to disagree on that for a minute then. How do you feel about a third faction and debate? Separate entities or the same, take it as you will.
Small aside: my crazy conspiracy theory is that faust is SK. Now, I don't even KNOW if there is an SK, but if there is, then that's who I suspect.
@Debate - You are taking the POE (process of elimination) a bit personally. There is no information to discount your being scum, so you are in the list. You aren't getting much pressure or suspicion at all so far. mail-mi's breadcrumbs were not meaningful yesterday because he could have been doing them as scum. I saw them and felt it was 50/50. faust's response to me about his mail-mi case makes sense and his suspecting mail-mi even though mail-mi townread raerae is NAI.
Agree, scumpoints to ari for that intro.
mail-mi is a surprising choice, given that he had significant suspicion yesterday, we have an IC, and my claim was generally seen as towny. Did mail-mi claim and I missed it? He did soft claim a pr very loudly. I'll check when at a computer if he breadcrumbed an N1 result.
This is not too hard, really. shraeye is town. raerae is town. EFHW I really doubt that she would do that fakeclaim as scum. Which in turn renders Eddie townie. This shrinks the lynchpool to just
ari, silver, Joseph, Debatepro, faust
I am also town, which granted may not be obvious to you. Thus we have 4 people to pick from for scum. PoE is strong here. And this is also why I think a massclaim will do no good.
I'm not buying it, because if what you say is true then I know the scum are ari, silver, and joseph which isn't likely because SS pushed ari hard in the last day. ...
silver pushing ari hard doesn't earn silver townpoints or make them unlikely partners. Scum!ari was a likely lynch anyway, being new scum, and his dying would disable the Neapolitan and maybe make silver look towny which was the conclusion you drew.
Which BTW I don't think mail-mi was that good in this game. If I was scum and my choice was between mail-mi with a hypothetical PR role (one of my ExperiencedScumBuddy would have had to point it out) and town.faust, would you really kill mail-mi always in that instance? Maybe, hoping town can't believe faust is still in the game as a town player and they mislynch. But you give the wizard 7 more days to figure out the entire scum team. I don't think it's such a cut and dry case.
@Debate - You are taking the POE (process of elimination) a bit personally.You can't blanket my entire post with "he's taking it too personally." It's a neat trick to disregard the information and power of my argument in hopes that people don't read it carefully.
There is no information to discount your being scum, so you are in the list.
Also, your townreading raerae early on is not indication that you are town. As scum, you could pick a townie to support to make yourself seem townier. That's called white knighting.
I'm not voting ari today. He's had too much attention for too long and I'm interested mistrustful of wagons that gain speed that quickly and his role makes sense with mail-mi's. I know that doesn't guarantee he's town but I'm not going there today.
You saw them and yet were surprised he was the NK? And you had to go look to see if he breadcrumbed? So which is it? Did you see them like you're claiming now or were you really surprised and had to go look for them like you were claiming below?
I'm not voting ari today. He's had too much attention for too long and I'm interested mistrustful of wagons that gain speed that quickly and his role makes sense with mail-mi's. I know that doesn't guarantee he's town but I'm not going there today.
We haven’t gone there for two days, and he has been mostly ignored all game from my perspective. With him only having a wagon yesterday because the people who wanted DatSwan to live needed an alternative. (Very possible that I am just paranoid about this point, other people might perceive the situation differently...)
I think Ari is an extremely solid place to look for a scum today, and everyone’s insistence that he is trustworthy baffles me. If we give this guy another daypass...
I would be surprised if he were town at this point.
Debate - you are misunderstanding me quite a bit. I'm not sure how to clear it up. But your townreading raerae is not a towntell.
I agree ari's suspicious and the easy lynch but I'm still not convinced. I am highly suspicious of everybody claiming complete ignorance to mail-mi being the cop. He wasn't dropping breadcrumbs, he was throwing whole loaves at anybody who would listen.Let's play a hypothetical game....I'm going to save you the obvious, it's not a hypothetical game, it actually happened that way. Check it out for yourself. Also, what is more likely, debatepro is town or he crafted this elaborate defense hundreds of posts in advance with no live coaching?
I really dislike the constant references to an “imaginary” scumbuddy from you. Seems exactly like the kind of play I would make.Since i just skimmed your other two games and you were town in both, I'll take it as a compliment.
I don't need to defend anything. What you call a "cover story" is what happened. If it doesn't satisfy you, then fine. I don't expect everyone to believe me. I think my claim should be believed, but clearly it is not universally, so I accept that. I don't have proof of anything. And neither do you.Debate - you are misunderstanding me quite a bit. I'm not sure how to clear it up. But your townreading raerae is not a towntell.
Perhaps. I wasn't responding to faust's PoE. I was responding to Raerae's comment Mail-mi's breadcrumb more like loaves of bread. Which BTW, you need disagree with as well, else your "suspected" but 50/50 on mail-mi PR cover-story is worse than sub-optimal.I agree ari's suspicious and the easy lynch but I'm still not convinced. I am highly suspicious of everybody claiming complete ignorance to mail-mi being the cop. He wasn't dropping breadcrumbs, he was throwing whole loaves at anybody who would listen.Let's play a hypothetical game....I'm going to save you the obvious, it's not a hypothetical game, it actually happened that way. Check it out for yourself. Also, what is more likely, debatepro is town or he crafted this elaborate defense hundreds of posts in advance with no live coaching?
Also, It's not just that I townread raerae, it's that I did and used it as the basis for most of my interactions in D2. Everyone can see my play up until this point in the game, it's mostly rubbish. That I would have built a town case raerae and use it as a basis from my reads on other players in the game, just to come back in D3 and use it as a defense is beyond absurd.
1. I'm not that good. Read my posts, questions, and analysis if you think i am.
2. ExperincedScumBuddy isn't around in the day to help prevent me from F'ing it up.
Vote Count 3.11silverspawn (1): Faust (#1615 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg788107#msg788107))
arishipshape (2): Uncleeurope, Faust (#1660 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg788161#msg788161))
Joseph2302 (1): EFHW
EFHW (1): raerae (#1618 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg788110#msg788110))
Faust (1): Debatepro (#1636 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg788135#msg788135))
Not Voting (4): silverspawn, Joseph2302, arishipshape, shraeye
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.
Day 3 begins now and ends February 21, 2019, 04:00:00 pm.
Quick update on VC.silver sure did not take a lot of votes to lynch.Vote Count 3.11silverspawn (1): Faust (#1615 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg788107#msg788107))
arishipshape (2): Uncleeurope, Faust (#1660 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg788161#msg788161))
Joseph2302 (1): EFHW
EFHW (1): raerae (#1618 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg788110#msg788110))
Faust (1): Debatepro (#1636 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg788135#msg788135))
Not Voting (4): silverspawn, Joseph2302, arishipshape, shraeye
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.
Day 3 begins now and ends February 21, 2019, 04:00:00 pm.
Quick update on VC.silver sure did not take a lot of votes to lynch.Vote Count 3.11silverspawn (1): Faust (#1615 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg788107#msg788107))
arishipshape (2): Uncleeurope, Faust (#1660 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg788161#msg788161))
Joseph2302 (1): EFHW
EFHW (1): raerae (#1618 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg788110#msg788110))
Faust (1): Debatepro (#1636 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg788135#msg788135))
Not Voting (4): silverspawn, Joseph2302, arishipshape, shraeye
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.
Day 3 begins now and ends February 21, 2019, 04:00:00 pm.
Who are your partners?Debatepro is my town partner. I'm not sure of anyone else yet (besides dead and conf)
I'm not claiming what I did now. The main use of it is to keep scum honest/catch scum lying. Claiming now just helps them fakeclaim better.I agree with your assessment EFHW.
I think we should massclaim (if we're going to) firstI'm not claiming what I did now. The main use of it is to keep scum honest/catch scum lying. Claiming now just helps them fakeclaim better.I agree with your assessment EFHW.
Is it just me or is this game going nowhere. Super frustrated to be following lead of people who’ve played only to have 4 Town terminated. Any one have a rough idea of the win% for town in a closed game? Seems like losing almost half you team and two with PR and one that was unknown sucks.I'm not claiming what I did now. The main use of it is to keep scum honest/catch scum lying. Claiming now just helps them fakeclaim better.I agree with your assessment EFHW.
Is it just me or is this game going nowhere. Super frustrated to be following lead of people who’ve played only to have 4 Town terminated. Any one have a rough idea of the win% for town in a closed game? Seems like losing almost half you team and two with PR and one that was unknown sucks.I'm not claiming what I did now. The main use of it is to keep scum honest/catch scum lying. Claiming now just helps them fakeclaim better.I agree with your assessment EFHW.
Is there some strategy to setting the claim order like make the iffy superstars go first?
Welcome to Mafia, it's a roller coaster.Is it just me or is this game going nowhere. Super frustrated to be following lead of people who’ve played only to have 4 Town terminated. Any one have a rough idea of the win% for town in a closed game? Seems like losing almost half you team and two with PR and one that was unknown sucks.I'm not claiming what I did now. The main use of it is to keep scum honest/catch scum lying. Claiming now just helps them fakeclaim better.I agree with your assessment EFHW.
Is there some strategy to setting the claim order like make the iffy superstars go first?
What I don’t understand is how scum knew mail-me had a PR? It can’t be a lucky shot right, he wasn’t helping town with his analysis or activity, why kill him over a better town player or someone who actually made a claim?They asked themselves, "why did mail-mi move from a scumread of shraeye/LaLight to off the table??" Looked at mail-mi's posts to see what I saw. Then saw what I saw.
Alright, Here's the game we are playing right now. We're playing "assume there are 3 scum and pick them". Reasons would be nice, but I'm not asking for (or wanting) entire cases right now.Team Town:
DebatePro
So, now I'm sitting here trying to figure out, of everyone saying "why mail-mi? that seems suuuper weird", is it honest confusion or manufactured? That's Joseph, EFHW, Joseph again, DebatePro.
At this point I believe EFHW's claim, so I'll chalk that up to confusion. So Joseph and DebatePro...
Not to mention that scum tends to bus to much, as I've said many times.I want to show exhibit A:
So let's see.
Strong Town Read: Debatepro, arishipshape
Mild Town Read: EFHW, MiX
Null: faust, mail-mi, Uncleeurope, DatSwan, Joseph2302, shraeye
Mild scum: raerae, LaLight
I disagree with the format, usually the person who goes first should get to also speak last, since they don't get a chance to make counter arguments to cases made before in-line, unlike every other player.
DebatePro: Ari, faust, EFHWDebatepro (when you have the time): Walk me through how it happens that scum!EFHW claims a Motion Detector result on town!Eddie.
So, now I'm sitting here trying to figure out, of everyone saying "why mail-mi? that seems suuuper weird", is it honest confusion or manufactured? That's Joseph, EFHW, Joseph again, DebatePro.I'll answer anyway. I expect scum to want to avoid nk'ing people who are easier to lynch. I didn't think about faust's point that once mail-mi claimed, the lynch would in all probability fail.
At this point I believe EFHW's claim, so I'll chalk that up to confusion. So Joseph and DebatePro...
I exist, I just haven't seen anything noteworthy to comment about. Anyone wanna ask me any questions?So do you still exist? You're kind of holding things up you know.
Holding things up? Am I stopping the inevitable flow of time from second to second?I exist, I just haven't seen anything noteworthy to comment about. Anyone wanna ask me any questions?So do you still exist? You're kind of holding things up you know.
Holding things up? Am I stopping the inevitable flow of time from second to second?I exist, I just haven't seen anything noteworthy to comment about. Anyone wanna ask me any questions?So do you still exist? You're kind of holding things up you know.
Cool, so
DebatePro: Ari, faust, EFHW
arishipshape:
faust:
silverspawn:
UncleEurope:
Joseph2302:
raerae:
EFHW:
shraeye:
I already claimed! Neapolitan enabler! Also, I didn't really get what the post was asking until I looked at it harder. SorryHolding things up? Am I stopping the inevitable flow of time from second to second?I exist, I just haven't seen anything noteworthy to comment about. Anyone wanna ask me any questions?So do you still exist? You're kind of holding things up you know.Cool, so
DebatePro: Ari, faust, EFHW
arishipshape:
faust:
silverspawn:
UncleEurope:
Joseph2302:
raerae:
EFHW:
shraeye:
Apparently you still didn't get it.Oh. I thought we were massclaiming. Lemme go read the past 20 pages again. *reads pages*
You are supposed to name you top 3 scumreads.
If ari is town then we haven't got a chance of winningApparently you still didn't get it.Oh. I thought we were massclaiming. Lemme go read the past 20 pages again. *reads pages*
You are supposed to name you top 3 scumreads.
Faust- The Datswan hammer, the town information deprivation, the unjustified hostility towards me
Uncleeurope- Won't tell me the case on me, lot's of random votes for EFHW (could u explain those?)
I'm having trouble finding a third read. As soon as I have one I'll get back to you guys
This seems kind of like a waste of time? But I guess since the IC thinks it's worth it...I still think we should mass claim at the same time, as that's potentially more useful
Can we also appreciate the fact that ari doesn't even manage the simple task of naming three scummy people.Apparently you still didn't get it.Oh. I thought we were massclaiming. Lemme go read the past 20 pages again. *reads pages*
You are supposed to name you top 3 scumreads.
Faust- The Datswan hammer, the town information deprivation, the unjustified hostility towards me
Uncleeurope- Won't tell me the case on me, lot's of random votes for EFHW (could u explain those?)
I'm having trouble finding a third read. As soon as I have one I'll get back to you guys
ari, faust, JosephGreat list. Ari and the two people who seem to find ari the scummiest
ari, faust, JosephGreat list. Ari and the two people who seem to find ari the scummiest
Naturally that must be the scum team.......
So, I have not finished my reread yet, but here's something.Debatepro is the towniest town that ever graced a town with his towniness. He constantly gives information that would absolutely box him into a nasty corner as scum, and reads newbie town to me.
ari, silver, Debatepro
Though I'm not sure that those three actually make sense as a scumteam.
Debatepro is the towniest town that ever graced a town with his towniness. He constantly gives information that would absolutely box him into a nasty corner as scum, and reads newbie town to me.Can you give an example or two of him giving information that would box him into a nasty corner as scum?
Signalling what?ari, faust, JosephGreat list. Ari and the two people who seem to find ari the scummiest
Naturally that must be the scum team.......
your jump on him right now was frankly really scummy. We're about to massclaim, there's not really a chance we're lynching right now. this felt mostly like signaling to me.
Questioning you seems to have been a fairly significant blunder that has ic.shrae moving me up on his scum-o-meter and scum.faust is exploiting to get one of the two mislynches they need to win the game.Debatepro is the towniest town that ever graced a town with his towniness. He constantly gives information that would absolutely box him into a nasty corner as scum, and reads newbie town to me.Can you give an example or two of him giving information that would box him into a nasty corner as scum?
SureDebatepro is the towniest town that ever graced a town with his towniness. He constantly gives information that would absolutely box him into a nasty corner as scum, and reads newbie town to me.Can you give an example or two of him giving information that would box him into a nasty corner as scum?
Warning: Long post mostly data/coding.A. Super easy archive of information access super helpful for town, ergo super unhelpful for scum. I know I don't have the time to make this, and I have appreciated it.
Answers2: shrae's question on my read of rae.
After a thorough review/coding of all Rae's posts, I am leaning firm town for her. I don't see anything that is scummy, asks for reasons all votes, challenges votes on her, challenges analysis, teases, and jokes. At worst I see some not helpful discussion on theory. I could be missing something and it seems even smart well intentioned people in this thread disagree about conclusions. This message also enters my calculus.Random other thought: Does silver's mistaking raerae/shraeye for newbs mean we can exclude silver/raerae, silver/shraeye as possible scum pairings?
The data and coding of all Rae's posts up to this point. Hyperlinked to aid town in jumping to posts with ease.
Key: A2= Answers to, ?2 = Question to, A?2 = Answer and questions to.
65 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg784221#msg784221) Upset people beat her to wagon. *vote: shrae*
69 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg784225#msg784225) ?2-ari is buddying good/bad
71 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg784227#msg784227) A2-ari used too many words in reply *vote: ari*
128 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg784325#msg784325) ?2-shrae to clue in why gave joseph, faust, eddie 1 guess
130 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg784328#msg784328) A2-ari many wagons day 1 good bc can look back on interactions
131 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg784329#msg784329) ?2-shrae why care about their opinions (128)
135 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg784334#msg784334) ?2-mix Big wagons better than what… small wooden, etc.?
138 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg784339#msg784339) A2-mix votes are pointless w/o discussion… sheeping bad cases says nothing.
146 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg784358#msg784358) A2-mix Big RSV wagons are bad bc L2 on D1 no discussion
158 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg784390#msg784390) ?2-mix - shrae didn't post reason for mix vote, did u dscss in ur QT.
160 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg784393#msg784393) ?2-ss - Why db8 & ari town? ss said pretty sure on db8 & ari probably
161 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg784394#msg784394) A2-ari - mix gets FoS bc not freaking out, RR says can go both ways
163 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg784396#msg784396) A2-mix *vote: shrae* has xplaining to do re: #158
165 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg784399#msg784399) ?2-faust so ur the 3rd on rae?
176 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg784413#msg784413) A2-mix more Re: #158 - mix might defend scumbuddy case on him
180 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg784420#msg784420) A2-ss thanking for quick response see #178 evidence of towny posts
181 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg784421#msg784421) ?2-ss Scummy bc I'm ? For believing case not exist yet? #179
192 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg784456#msg784456) ?2-mix Re: #158 shrae didn't say reason. *vote: shrae*
235 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg784585#msg784585) A2-shrae hate when ur right
238 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg784590#msg784590) ?2-shrae Cute, but why vote for mix?
292 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg784738#msg784738) All - Don't accuse player of lying for IRL event. It sucks
295 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg784746#msg784746) A2-ds - Justfctn for ds's townead on RR bad. Accuses of buddying. (More Text)
298 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg784756#msg784756) ?2-eddie Quickhammer good for town?
316 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg784841#msg784841) A2-faust I'll vote when I please, don't vote on single post unless from role mssg
317 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg784842#msg784842) A2-ds will read later bc RL stuff
329 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg784874#msg784874) Reads on Everyone .. db8-new, faust-twnish, mail
330 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg784878#msg784878) A2? *vote: mix* bc mix cointroductions - evidenced
367 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg784952#msg784952) A2-LL Snarky but correct how to scumhunt w/o answers & interactions
370 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg784957#msg784957) A2-faust Rae's shrae case hinged on mix interaction, may be tunneling shrae
371 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg784958#msg784958) ?2-LL Why shrae towny, since LL claimed didn't know meta
375 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg784963#msg784963) A?2 @ds why faust towncred, bc he said? @faust U wouldn't let assertion fly for others?
390 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg784985#msg784985) ?2-joe Why voting rae? No reason.
404 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg785006#msg785006) A?2-LL I play my way. Looking for anything particular in my response?
405 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg785007#msg785007) A2-efhw Re: shrae/mix QT slip. Town shouldn't defend case against self.
422 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg785025#msg785025) ?2:-joe Justification of vote by joe 4 rae based on others play, is rubbish
431 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg785037#msg785037) A2-joe not helping town with sheep votes absent of reason
463 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg785086#msg785086) A2-ds faust assertion he is town, isn't a reason he is town
467 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg785090#msg785090) A2-ds D1 to early to claim other than normal game. RMM could be Different
470 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg785094#msg785094) A2-ds faust assertion as town is not reason to accept as fact, rubbish logic.
474 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg785098#msg785098) A?2-ds Getting now where, what if faust claimed not town aligned or 3rd party
512 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg785189#msg785189) A2-ALOT Eddy, ds, faust, mix
543 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg785236#msg785236) ?2-mail reason for vote on rae?
545 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg785238#msg785238) ?2-mail why vote for rae, what have people been "saying"?
557 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg785256#msg785256) All Review of wagons on mix and LL gives reads on db8, shrae, ari, self, LL, joe, Mail-me.
562 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg785269#msg785269) A2-mix *vote: mail* since no reason for vote on rae is given.
563 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg785270#msg785270) A2-db8 Should we end d1 with no lynch, yes in general good practice.
569 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg785276#msg785276) A2-mail-me No reason to vote, jk about having something together.
573 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg785281#msg785281) ?2-mail vote today?
614 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg785418#msg785418) A?2-faust D1 shouldn't end w/ RSV or Sheeping. Why ru good with that? People dfnd ur votes!
619 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg785443#msg785443) A2-joe Never give reasons rae is scum
621 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg785446#msg785446) A2-ds vote change from mix 2 mail bc sheeping scummy for later
622 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg785447#msg785447) A2-mix mail shouldn't be getting pass for sheeping this game
623 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg785448#msg785448) Unvote mail given #622
627 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg785478#msg785478) A2-efhw mail meta no longer includes sheeping
628 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg785479#msg785479) ?2-ds vote for me based on what?
633 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg785489#msg785489) ?2-ds Why am I scummy, ds doesn't give any reasons
635 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg785491#msg785491) Rebuke of absence of reasons, mix 2 eager to jmp on any wagon, vote: mix
641 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg785497#msg785497) *vote: mix* forgot to bold in #635
928 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg786103#msg786103) A2-efhw shrae/rae not online at EOD, LL said partner not on.
934 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg786117#msg786117) A2-shrae replying to mssg bout shrae/rae not online, re:mason
939 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg786125#msg786125) A?2-db8 No rules against status tracking, thoughts about mason claiming?
945 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg786133#msg786133) A2-shrae faust twny, generating convo & using logic
959 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg786156#msg786156) A2-shrae faust not scmmy 4hammer bc 2hammer > not 2hammer
996 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg786170#msg786170) ?2-ds You denying shrea is the other mason?
1016 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg786276#msg786276) A2-joe Never give reasons rae is scum
1031 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg786292#msg786292) A2-faust Twn should know reasons, why ok w/ not sharing. joe no! reason! rae scum
1040 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg786309#msg786309) A2-db8 D1 should share, sans cop reviewing wagon
1049 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg786318#msg786318) ?2-ds then correct me
1062 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg786335#msg786335) A?2-ds isn't sharing better in outlined scenarios
1066 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg786339#msg786339) A2-ds share or not 2share that is the ? rae says share
1071 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg786344#msg786344) ?2-shrae Reason for eddie vote?
1108 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg786463#msg786463) A2-db8 ds gave reasons, don't agree with some, bad that rae on his list of possible scum
1109 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg786464#msg786464) ?2-mail thoughts on joe, db8, ss?
1128 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg786508#msg786508) A?2-joe Asserting db8,rae,ari scumteam? @faust not vote bc old mix/shrae theory bad more later
@SS what do you think about Datswan's analysis and conclusions?
@Ari, @RaeRay, @Mail-Mi, & @Joseph what do you think of DatSwan’s analysis and conclusions in posts #1042-#1045 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg786311#msg786311)?
As far as my play, i kind of took my lead from you with your questions to players about there reads on certain players to flush out info and get them on the record, for example:Constantly asking for hard information and claims from the other players, again, helping town. Like, seriously helping town. Very proactive. As proactive as I would be given time. And next time I schedule a mafia game for myself, i'll be sure it's when I have time to be the next debatepro. Anyways, he is giving his opinions too in some of these quotes, I just trimmed them down to investigations to make this a slightly smaller great wall of text.
SS - what are your reads besides debatepro and ari. Don't think we've seen an answer. #1285
Joseph - why did you vote for debate & what do you think about mail-mi, ari, debate, and ss. #1259
Ok, thanks.Questioning you seems to have been a fairly significant blunder that has ic.shrae moving me up on his scum-o-meter and scum.faust is exploiting to get one of the two mislynches they need to win the game.Debatepro is the towniest town that ever graced a town with his towniness. He constantly gives information that would absolutely box him into a nasty corner as scum, and reads newbie town to me.Can you give an example or two of him giving information that would box him into a nasty corner as scum?
In fairness I trust Rae right up there with Shrae and SS, when she questioned you it was stupid to jump in, and I clearly don’t understand how the PR works.
Signalling what?ari, faust, JosephGreat list. Ari and the two people who seem to find ari the scummiest
Naturally that must be the scum team.......
your jump on him right now was frankly really scummy. We're about to massclaim, there's not really a chance we're lynching right now. this felt mostly like signaling to me.
Well this comment is going to make my read interestingSo, I have not finished my reread yet, but here's something.Debatepro is the towniest town that ever graced a town with his towniness. He constantly gives information that would absolutely box him into a nasty corner as scum, and reads newbie town to me.
ari, silver, Debatepro
Though I'm not sure that those three actually make sense as a scumteam.
Why does everyone think i'm scum?? I'm legitimately confused. No-one will explain their case against me (except for that brief excerpt on my "fake" emotion) and it's just being treated as common fact that i'm scum.
Raerae- I went off the thought of lynching raerae yesterday, because I thought Datswan was scum. Their interactions yesterday always struck me as scum/townWhat do you think about mail-mi's supposed result on raerae?
Debatepro- similar to what Uncle said, they've been very defensive of their actions, which is often a newbie!scum traitHow exactly does a newb.town act when their name pops up on people’s list? Act like they don’t give a sh!t and try to flush out scum? Hmmm. I’d like to read some of your other games. Can you tell me, besides this one, when was the last time you flipped scum?
Are you going to answer my questions at some point?Debatepro- similar to what Uncle said, they've been very defensive of their actions, which is often a newbie!scum traitHow exactly does a newb.town act when their name pops up on people’s list? Act like they don’t give a sh!t and try to flush out scum? Hmmm. I’d like to read some of your other games. Can you tell me, besides this one, when was the last time you flipped scum?
DebatePro, why are you thinking that you've moved up my scum-list?And this one.
DebatePro, why are you thinking that you've moved up my scum-list?
What supposed result?Raerae- I went off the thought of lynching raerae yesterday, because I thought Datswan was scum. Their interactions yesterday always struck me as scum/townWhat do you think about mail-mi's supposed result on raerae?
I'm currently doing a reread. Will share more later, but for now, in the light of this:What conclusion are we supposed to draw from this?Not to mention that scum tends to bus to much, as I've said many times.I want to show exhibit A:So let's see.
Strong Town Read: Debatepro, arishipshape
Mild Town Read: EFHW, MiX
Null: faust, mail-mi, Uncleeurope, DatSwan, Joseph2302, shraeye
Mild scum: raerae, LaLight
DebatePro: Ari, faust, EFHWDebatepro (when you have the time): Walk me through how it happens that scum!EFHW claims a Motion Detector result on town!Eddie.
I think the "evidence" is much better than yours which is an assertion you have a PR and that eddie is town. If scum!efhw, you would already know eddie is town, if eddie is scum, why would he argue with you. The probability that someone had a PR and targeted eddie at the same time you did in N1 is so low, especially since you even factored in the town had two masons into the equation. You can take the risk of asserting it the PR in this case.
Lack of understanding doesn't equate to scumminess.
It's still worth it to discuss the PR and your thoughts. Right now, people are left flipping a coin on whether it's willful ignorance or honest ignorance. Why not lay out your thoughts and help people see that it's honest, if it is in fact honest?
silver does not like to bus as scum. In his D1 reads, we have 3 people who are still unconfirmed as townreads, whereas with the exception of MiX all townies who have flipped so far are in his null-to-scum range. That seems like a reads list from scum!silver.I'm currently doing a reread. Will share more later, but for now, in the light of this:What conclusion are we supposed to draw from this?Not to mention that scum tends to bus to much, as I've said many times.I want to show exhibit A:So let's see.
Strong Town Read: Debatepro, arishipshape
Mild Town Read: EFHW, MiX
Null: faust, mail-mi, Uncleeurope, DatSwan, Joseph2302, shraeye
Mild scum: raerae, LaLight
But what benefit does EFHW draw from this claim?Lack of understanding doesn't equate to scumminess.
It's still worth it to discuss the PR and your thoughts. Right now, people are left flipping a coin on whether it's willful ignorance or honest ignorance. Why not lay out your thoughts and help people see that it's honest, if it is in fact honest?
Mason makes claim, confirmed, 2 town have PR.
After that moment, and reasonably, how many more town have a power role?
What is the probability they are the motion detector?
What is the probability a townie has an action on Eddie in N1?
What is the probability eddie is town over scum?
Who would pick an action on eddie at that point in the game? I wouldn’t I can think of 3 or 4 other players.
Take all those together, there is little risk in EFHW claiming motion detector on Eddie.
If eddie is town, he won’t dispute it her result. He get’s to be town.
If eddie is scum, he won’t dispute her claim because it would prove he is scum.
But what benefit does EFHW draw from this claim?Lack of understanding doesn't equate to scumminess.
It's still worth it to discuss the PR and your thoughts. Right now, people are left flipping a coin on whether it's willful ignorance or honest ignorance. Why not lay out your thoughts and help people see that it's honest, if it is in fact honest?
A while, but questions would start to pop up the longer she stayed alive. The big problem with these kinds of claims is you're expected to die.But what benefit does EFHW draw from this claim?Lack of understanding doesn't equate to scumminess.
It's still worth it to discuss the PR and your thoughts. Right now, people are left flipping a coin on whether it's willful ignorance or honest ignorance. Why not lay out your thoughts and help people see that it's honest, if it is in fact honest?
If she were scum and made the above play, she would pass as Town?
A while, but questions would start to pop up the longer she stayed alive. The big problem with these kinds of claims is you're expected to die.But what benefit does EFHW draw from this claim?Lack of understanding doesn't equate to scumminess.
It's still worth it to discuss the PR and your thoughts. Right now, people are left flipping a coin on whether it's willful ignorance or honest ignorance. Why not lay out your thoughts and help people see that it's honest, if it is in fact honest?
If she were scum and made the above play, she would pass as Town?
Well, the IC was throwing his weight behind a lynch of a player she had good reason to believe to be town. Combined with the fact that Motion Detector is not generally a very useful role... I mean I can see it.A while, but questions would start to pop up the longer she stayed alive. The big problem with these kinds of claims is you're expected to die.But what benefit does EFHW draw from this claim?Lack of understanding doesn't equate to scumminess.
It's still worth it to discuss the PR and your thoughts. Right now, people are left flipping a coin on whether it's willful ignorance or honest ignorance. Why not lay out your thoughts and help people see that it's honest, if it is in fact honest?
If she were scum and made the above play, she would pass as Town?
So why did she claim? She wasn't under pressure and the question was simply, "Why no Uncle?" It wasn't a natural claim.
It’s Rae, EFHW, and Shrae right? It would be good to get the reads by EOD today US. It’s got to be getting late for anyone in a euro time zone. Xoxoxo
Combined with the fact that Motion Detector is not generally a very useful role...
A while, but questions would start to pop up the longer she stayed alive. The big problem with these kinds of claims is you're expected to die.But what benefit does EFHW draw from this claim?If she were scum and made the above play, she would pass as Town?
As an apprentice wizard, if being a motion detector not very useful, why would one expect to die?It is still positive utility, and gives town more information, so for scum it is still a better kill than a VT. It is just that if you are say a Cop, then you really want to avoid claiming as much as possible until you have a lot of good information to share. As a Motion Detector, if you have one useful result that may be all you get and if you can utilize that, you probably should.Combined with the fact that Motion Detector is not generally a very useful role...A while, but questions would start to pop up the longer she stayed alive. The big problem with these kinds of claims is you're expected to die.But what benefit does EFHW draw from this claim?If she were scum and made the above play, she would pass as Town?
MiX (5): Debatepro, arishipshape, shraeye, faust, UncleeuropeHere we have ari, Debate, Eddie all voting for MiX. If those three were the scum, then I doubt they would all support the same wagon on town. So, this is enough for me to rule out an Eddie/ari/Debate team.
(Vote: EFHW <-Just in case)This post has Eddie switching votes from ari to EFHW. I would not expect that if the scumteam was Eddie/EFHW/ari. You'd usually stick to one bus.
And ari just doubles down on the fake moarning thing while also taking this MiX post way too seriously. Vote: arishipshapeI think this is not a double-bus from a scumteam silver-Eddie-ari, Eddie's manner of joining the wagon is too casual for that.
In this, Debate says his top 2 scumreads are ari and EFHW. This points against a scum team of the three of them.It is notable that the largest portion of MiX's core wagon yesterday - Debatepro, raerae, ari (and also recently shraeye, but he just unvoted) - are all not voting. I would really like to see them push someone other than MiX at some point in this game. The lack of voting so far is stalling the game.Maybe it's because they're scum and haven't decided which mislynch wagon to create/join yet?
EFHW, who is your top scumread?
I moved to unvote bc clearly the shraeye vote was a blunder?? The most compelling cases to me right now are Ari bc I thought the EOD shenanigans was suspect also (+ss's vote) and EFHW. I want to read EFHW's defense against the DatSwan's case because it seemed compelling. If forced to pick right now, i'd pick one of those two.
Vote Count 2.4EFHW-ari-Joseph all on DatSwan. This makes it unlikely that this is the scumteam. Previously we have had silver-Eddie-Debate all on ari, which makes me also think that they are not the scumteam.
"There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers.” — William James
arishipshape (3): silverspawn, Uncleeurope, DatSwan
DatSwan (4): faust, EFHW, arishipshape, Joseph2302
mail-mi (1): DebatePro
Not Voting (3): raerae, shraeye, mail-mi
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
Day 2 ends February 11, 2019, 05:00:00 pm
To summarize, certain votes make the follow groups unlikely to be scum teams?
Eddie/ari/Debate
Eddie/EFHW/ari
EFHW/Eddie
silver/Eddie/ari
Debate/ari/EFHW
EFHW/ari/Joseph
silver/Eddie/Debate
To summarize, certain votes make the follow groups unlikely to be scum teams?Instead of faust/Eddie you should have EFHW/ Eddie.
Eddie/ari/Debate
Eddie/EFHW/ari
faust/Eddie
silver/Eddie/ari
Debate/ari/EFHW
EFHW/ari/Joseph
silver/Eddie/Debate
If ari and Joseph are both scum, their third teammate has no support and is essentially playing alone.Ari is scum. Joseph not scum
Thought experiment: Would any scum be bold enough to list both their partners in their top 3?
What supposed result?Raerae- I went off the thought of lynching raerae yesterday, because I thought Datswan was scum. Their interactions yesterday always struck me as scum/townWhat do you think about mail-mi's supposed result on raerae?
Clearly I missed it, can someone post it again please?
Some interesting facts: there are two possible 3-person scumteams that involve no bussing at all:Do you think there is a chance that raerae is in fact scum?
DebatePro/raerae/silver
EFHW/faust/UncleEurope (interestingly, this is raerae's list...hmm)
I think we should avoid the obvious lynches and try to find the sleeper/vet on the team. I say that because I think Debate and Eddie are town. For me, this means voting silver.Why do you think that? Which are the obvious lynches?
Some interesting facts: there are two possible 3-person scumteams that involve no bussing at all:Do you think there is a chance that raerae is in fact scum?
DebatePro/raerae/silver
EFHW/faust/UncleEurope (interestingly, this is raerae's list...hmm)
I do NOT buy your reasoning for Ari/Joseph aren't a team, EFHWYeah, I could also see their partner being content with their being inactive.
Some kind of redirection would make it possible, but I didn't see any role like that in the OP.Some interesting facts: there are two possible 3-person scumteams that involve no bussing at all:Do you think there is a chance that raerae is in fact scum?
DebatePro/raerae/silver
EFHW/faust/UncleEurope (interestingly, this is raerae's list...hmm)
I can't envision a world where that is true
Obvious lynches are ari, Joseph, Debate. Obvious because there is lots anyone can point to that is scummy about them.I think we should avoid the obvious lynches and try to find the sleeper/vet on the team. I say that because I think Debate and Eddie are town. For me, this means voting silver.Why do you think that? Which are the obvious lynches?
I think it is best to talk about this now.Why now?
EFHW never mentions Eddie (remember her supposed N1 target who she has a favorable result on) at all during D2 until the point where shraeye and raerae are both voting for him. This strikes me as very, very strange.
I figured it was better to not spread doubt about your claim so that it is more likely that scum would kill you. But now you are seeking to steer us away from the ari lynch on shaky reasoning, I felt like I needed to say something.I think it is best to talk about this now.Why now?
EFHW never mentions Eddie (remember her supposed N1 target who she has a favorable result on) at all during D2 until the point where shraeye and raerae are both voting for him. This strikes me as very, very strange.
My plan was to say something by the end of day if it hadn't come up naturally.
You still didn't answer why these would be bad lynches.Obvious lynches are ari, Joseph, Debate. Obvious because there is lots anyone can point to that is scummy about them.I think we should avoid the obvious lynches and try to find the sleeper/vet on the team. I say that because I think Debate and Eddie are town. For me, this means voting silver.Why do you think that? Which are the obvious lynches?
Obvious lynches are ari, Joseph, Debate. Obvious because there is lots anyone can point to that is scummy about them.I think we should avoid the obvious lynches and try to find the sleeper/vet on the team. I say that because I think Debate and Eddie are town. For me, this means voting silver.Why do you think that? Which are the obvious lynches?
I figured it was better to not spread doubt about your claim so that it is more likely that scum would kill you. But now you are seeking to steer us away from the ari lynch on shaky reasoning, I felt like I needed to say something.I think it is best to talk about this now.Why now?
EFHW never mentions Eddie (remember her supposed N1 target who she has a favorable result on) at all during D2 until the point where shraeye and raerae are both voting for him. This strikes me as very, very strange.
My plan was to say something by the end of day if it hadn't come up naturally.
Yeah, sure. But it rings my alarm bells enough to make me want to discuss this. I think lynching ari is good now for confirmation. Plus otherwise scum can always just let ari do the kill if he's a dead man walking, which in turn means EFHW's results would be less useful... so from her particularly this seems strange.I figured it was better to not spread doubt about your claim so that it is more likely that scum would kill you. But now you are seeking to steer us away from the ari lynch on shaky reasoning, I felt like I needed to say something.I think it is best to talk about this now.Why now?
EFHW never mentions Eddie (remember her supposed N1 target who she has a favorable result on) at all during D2 until the point where shraeye and raerae are both voting for him. This strikes me as very, very strange.
My plan was to say something by the end of day if it hadn't come up naturally.
I, independently, have also been considering just letting Ari simmer and to lynch somebody else. So it's possible the reasons/motive isn't flimsy, but is just something you disagree with.
He appeared on 4 people's lists, 5 if we include your putting him in your top 4. There are obvious things that make him scummy.Obvious lynches are ari, Joseph, Debate. Obvious because there is lots anyone can point to that is scummy about them.I think we should avoid the obvious lynches and try to find the sleeper/vet on the team. I say that because I think Debate and Eddie are town. For me, this means voting silver.Why do you think that? Which are the obvious lynches?
Today is basically the first day Joseph has been put on the table. He's recovering minor suspicion and nobody's even put together a case or voted for him yet. I would strongly disagree he's an obvious lunch.
But on the flip side, if Ari does the kill then it's not in anyway empowered (since I believe his claim)Yeah but what empowering do they need? It's quite unlikely that town has more PRs than what has been claimed so far - if EFHW is telling the truth, that is.
This doesn't make sense to me. ari is scummy. But he's brand new and could be town. He really could. How does my role figure in? The chances of my role being useful are pretty small anyway.Yeah, sure. But it rings my alarm bells enough to make me want to discuss this. I think lynching ari is good now for confirmation. Plus otherwise scum can always just let ari do the kill if he's a dead man walking, which in turn means EFHW's results would be less useful... so from her particularly this seems strange.I figured it was better to not spread doubt about your claim so that it is more likely that scum would kill you. But now you are seeking to steer us away from the ari lynch on shaky reasoning, I felt like I needed to say something.I think it is best to talk about this now.Why now?
EFHW never mentions Eddie (remember her supposed N1 target who she has a favorable result on) at all during D2 until the point where shraeye and raerae are both voting for him. This strikes me as very, very strange.
My plan was to say something by the end of day if it hadn't come up naturally.
I, independently, have also been considering just letting Ari simmer and to lynch somebody else. So it's possible the reasons/motive isn't flimsy, but is just something you disagree with.
Sorry, I should be nicer.I do NOT buy your reasoning for Ari/Joseph aren't a team, EFHWYeah, I could also see their partner being content with their being inactive.
What? Why did you want scum to kill me?I figured it was better to not spread doubt about your claim so that it is more likely that scum would kill you. But now you are seeking to steer us away from the ari lynch on shaky reasoning, I felt like I needed to say something.I think it is best to talk about this now.Why now?
EFHW never mentions Eddie (remember her supposed N1 target who she has a favorable result on) at all during D2 until the point where shraeye and raerae are both voting for him. This strikes me as very, very strange.
My plan was to say something by the end of day if it hadn't come up naturally.
Because I can envision a world in which they are town.You still didn't answer why these would be bad lynches.Obvious lynches are ari, Joseph, Debate. Obvious because there is lots anyone can point to that is scummy about them.I think we should avoid the obvious lynches and try to find the sleeper/vet on the team. I say that because I think Debate and Eddie are town. For me, this means voting silver.Why do you think that? Which are the obvious lynches?
So we would be sure that you are town.What? Why did you want scum to kill me?I figured it was better to not spread doubt about your claim so that it is more likely that scum would kill you. But now you are seeking to steer us away from the ari lynch on shaky reasoning, I felt like I needed to say something.I think it is best to talk about this now.Why now?
EFHW never mentions Eddie (remember her supposed N1 target who she has a favorable result on) at all during D2 until the point where shraeye and raerae are both voting for him. This strikes me as very, very strange.
My plan was to say something by the end of day if it hadn't come up naturally.
So, it seems like now is a nice time to claim. EFHW and raerae have a chance to disagree on that decision, if they can make me believe their opinion.I'm fine with it.
Well if mail-mi got a result of town on raerae, that's enough to believe they're town, at least for nowWhat supposed result?Raerae- I went off the thought of lynching raerae yesterday, because I thought Datswan was scum. Their interactions yesterday always struck me as scum/townWhat do you think about mail-mi's supposed result on raerae?
Clearly I missed it, can someone post it again please?
You seriously missed it?? Did anybody answer this? There was a lot about this; I'll link mail-mi's breadcrumbs. AND I'll link the 3 people discussing it specifically on Day3. I won't link all the other day3 discussion around it
He mentions 3 times that either (A) he had a scumread on raerae, but it's gone (she didn't change what she was doing) or that (B) he was looking for scumminess, but exempting raerae
Then raerae humorously called them loaves, instead of breadcrumbs:
DebatePro made a big analysis about why he missed the breadcrumbs:
plus a followup
And a discussion about whether EFHW did or did not pick up on them as well.
So, Joseph. what are your thoughts on this?
Vote: faustI actually felt that I was handling the EFHW situation in an explicitly townie manner. Maybe I should not have said something after all.
Well if mail-mi got a result of town on raerae, that's enough to believe they're town, at least for nowWhy only for now?
So, it seems like now is a nice time to claim. EFHW and raerae have a chance to disagree on that decision, if they can make me believe their opinion.I think we should've just claimed rather than waste 2 days posting scum reads and waiting for people to do it
It seems like you don't want attention on you or silver.Vote: faustI actually felt that I was handling the EFHW situation in an explicitly townie manner. Maybe I should not have said something after all.
These are exactly the kind of posts that make me think Joseph is town.So, it seems like now is a nice time to claim. EFHW and raerae have a chance to disagree on that decision, if they can make me believe their opinion.I think we should've just claimed rather than waste 2 days posting scum reads and waiting for people to do it
But hey, each to their own
They don't make me feel anything. #deadinsideThese are exactly the kind of posts that make me think Joseph is town.So, it seems like now is a nice time to claim. EFHW and raerae have a chance to disagree on that decision, if they can make me believe their opinion.I think we should've just claimed rather than waste 2 days posting scum reads and waiting for people to do it
But hey, each to their own
I don't particularly want attention on me. I'm fine with attention on silver. If I did not want that, then why have I voted for him at the start of the Day?It seems like you don't want attention on you or silver.Vote: faustI actually felt that I was handling the EFHW situation in an explicitly townie manner. Maybe I should not have said something after all.
I didn't list strictly scum to townFair enough. I stand corrected then
Also the scum to town order implied by shraeye in this order is almost the opposite of my scum to town order
PPE:1
Not what I meant. I trust EFHW and raerae, almost everyone else is the opposite way on my listAlso the scum to town order implied by shraeye in this order is almost the opposite of my scum to town order
PPE:1
Just vote for me already if you're that convinced mail-mi was wrong/didn't breadcrumb what he breadcrumbed/whatever narrative you're telling yourself that goes against everything actually happening in game.
Today is basically the first day Joseph has been put on the table. He's recovering minor suspicion and nobody's even put together a case or voted for him yet. I would strongly disagree he's an obvious lunch.For the record I actually voted for Joseph and have given reasons, even if people think they are not the best. Vote: #1438 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.ph...7519#msg787519)
I don't. I targeted silver and saw no motion.
I don't. I targeted silver and saw no motion.
What does this mean, SS didn’t do anything in the night?
I don't. I targeted silver and saw no motion.
What does this mean, SS didn’t do anything in the night?
And nothing was done to them.
I don't. I targeted silver and saw no motion.
What does this mean, SS didn’t do anything in the night?
And nothing was done to them.
Assuming everything is true does that confirm him not scum?
Ok, so we have the following roles confirmed
Mason
Mason
Neapolitan
VT
VT
And the following roles claimed:
Motion Detector
Neapolitan Enabler
6 * VT
We don't know that there are only 5 VTs in the game. We know that there are at least 5 VTs.Ok, so we have the following roles confirmed
Mason
Mason
Neapolitan
VT
VT
And the following roles claimed:
Motion Detector
Neapolitan Enabler
6 * VT
Since we know there are only 5 VT in the game, two are confirmed, and 6 are claimed, doesn't that mean that 3 of the 6 are lying and must be the scumteam?
Add in that we have no evidence of scum having a Roleblocker. We had 2 claimed investigative roles, and somehow EFHW still got a result, how does that happen?
That reminds me @EFHW: is "no motion" distinct from "No result?" (or whatever you'd get if you were blocked)Yes.
Faust, now's a great time. Why do suspect a Strongman?That's obvious; scum went right after the strongest roles without fear or watcher or doctor
Faust, now's a great time. Why do suspect a Strongman?That's obvious; scum went right after the strongest roles without fear or watcher or doctor
faust already said as much when he made the original statement.Faust, now's a great time. Why do suspect a Strongman?That's obvious; scum went right after the strongest roles without fear or watcher or doctor
Faust! You've changed your name! That won't make rereads confusing at all.
Joseph, since you were so eager to see claims, what's this list say to you?Not so much useful
Well I guess if ari is scum, then scum new there were neopolitans in the game. And masons were revealed early tooFaust, now's a great time. Why do suspect a Strongman?That's obvious; scum went right after the strongest roles without fear or watcher or doctor
faust already said as much when he made the original statement.Faust, now's a great time. Why do suspect a Strongman?That's obvious; scum went right after the strongest roles without fear or watcher or doctor
Faust! You've changed your name! That won't make rereads confusing at all.
Probably not important right now, but killing the IC in a closed setup is bold. I expect that scum has Strongman powers.
Probably not important right now, but killing the IC in a closed setup is bold. I expect that scum has Strongman powers.
Well I guess if ari is scum, then scum new there were neopolitans in the game. And masons were revealed early tooFaust, now's a great time. Why do suspect a Strongman?That's obvious; scum went right after the strongest roles without fear or watcher or doctor
So less likely to be the other roles
But strongman seems likely too, they must have some PR and no evidence of anything like a RB or redirector
I don't know about today.Probably not important right now, but killing the IC in a closed setup is bold. I expect that scum has Strongman powers.
Then why say he didn't want to talk about it today? If like to hear from him and you seem eager for me to let this go, care to explain?
Another thing, though: if I look at a setup of only two masons plus Neapolitan, that feels... unelegant. Like, the only thing that differentiates Neapolitan from Cop now is that it returns "non-VT" on the masons... who are very hard to mislynch. Eh.This is incomplete. If the Enabler is town, then there is more to differentiate Neapolitan from Cop. And the fact that the Neapolitan would get a scum result on their Enabler is kind of neat form a game design POV.
I did not want to discuss potential PRs and what I think about them because it might show to scum that I am a VT, and that for no upside to town.Probably not important right now, but killing the IC in a closed setup is bold. I expect that scum has Strongman powers.
Then why say he didn't want to talk about it today? If like to hear from him and you seem eager for me to let this go, care to explain?
I'm thinking about the argument that 2 investigative roles is too strong for town. Note that both of them are potentially misleading in a closed setup, "non-VT" and " there was movement" wouldn't make me super convinced of what I had caught.It is not so much the fact that there arre no investigative PRs, but rather... scum has little way to counteract what we have. Masons is nothing that scum could work against with any of their PRs. Neapolitan can only be messed with by a Roleblocker, which we do not seem to have (unless EFHW is scum). Motion Detector... well I suppose scum could have a Ninja.
I'm not convinced that it is too strong for town
I think a town enabler weakens EFHWs role more....how? Did you mean mail-mi?
Another thing, though: if I look at a setup of only two masons plus Neapolitan, that feels... unelegant. Like, the only thing that differentiates Neapolitan from Cop now is that it returns "non-VT" on the masons... who are very hard to mislynch. Eh.This is incomplete. If the Enabler is town, then there is more to differentiate Neapolitan from Cop. And the fact that the Neapolitan would get a scum result on their Enabler is kind of neat form a game design POV.
I am thinking about that argument. It is meh. If scum has a Ninja, then a Motion Detector would not do much of anything really. Possibly would even functionally be negative utility as scum would appear with favourable results. So... I guess it could work out balance-wise?I'm thinking about the argument that 2 investigative roles is too strong for town. Note that both of them are potentially misleading in a closed setup, "non-VT" and " there was movement" wouldn't make me super convinced of what I had caught.It is not so much the fact that there arre no investigative PRs, but rather... scum has little way to counteract what we have. Masons is nothing that scum could work against with any of their PRs. Neapolitan can only be messed with by a Roleblocker, which we do not seem to have (unless EFHW is scum). Motion Detector... well I suppose scum could have a Ninja.
I'm not convinced that it is too strong for town
Also yes "non-VT" does not make you sure of what you caught, but "VT" does. The major strength is creating ICs. Which is pretty good if there already is are two IC-like roles.
Anyway vote: silverI thought you wanted to lynch ari?
I changed my mind.Anyway vote: silverI thought you wanted to lynch ari?
I changed my mind.Anyway vote: silverI thought you wanted to lynch ari?
I did not want to discuss potential PRs and what I think about them because it might show to scum that I am a VT, and that for no upside to town.Probably not important right now, but killing the IC in a closed setup is bold. I expect that scum has Strongman powers.
Then why say he didn't want to talk about it today? If like to hear from him and you seem eager for me to let this go, care to explain?
I am not sure I understand your question.I did not want to discuss potential PRs and what I think about them because it might show to scum that I am a VT, and that for no upside to town.Probably not important right now, but killing the IC in a closed setup is bold. I expect that scum has Strongman powers.
Then why say he didn't want to talk about it today? If like to hear from him and you seem eager for me to let this go, care to explain?
Why you already said you are VT? Can you give a hypothetical that demonstrates how this would work?
Because I think it is plausible that ari is town. And yes. Well to be honest I don't quite know what to think anymore.I changed my mind.Anyway vote: silverI thought you wanted to lynch ari?
Why and does this change who you think the scum team is?
yeah, that's what I meant.I think a town enabler weakens EFHWs role more....how? Did you mean mail-mi?
Some interesting facts: there are two possible 3-person scumteams that involve no bussing at all:
DebatePro/raerae/silver
EFHW/faust/UncleEurope (interestingly, this is raerae's list...hmm)
I voted for EFHW, even if only temporarly.Some interesting facts: there are two possible 3-person scumteams that involve no bussing at all:
DebatePro/raerae/silver
EFHW/faust/UncleEurope (interestingly, this is raerae's list...hmm)
Now faust can say he voted for EFHW, even if only temporarly. See: EFHW#1835 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg788787#msg788787), then silver #1862 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg788836#msg788836).
Hold on. For all the speculating, why has a somewhat obvious solution been very overlooked? I'm not if it's right to blame people for the overlooking, but if faust is willing to entertain daychat then I'm surprised he didn't consider this...Do you mean something along the lines of "EFHW is in fact a Motion Detector, but scum-aligned"? I did not think that worth separating from the general "EFHW is lying scum" scenarios because then her role does not matter all that much.
| Plyr | Claim | Voting 3.22 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg788864#msg788864) | One | Two | Three (#1752) (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg788541#msg788541) |
| Debatepro | VT | faust | Ari | faust | EFHW |
| Ari | Neap.Enblr | Null | faust | UncleEurope | ... |
| faust | VT | Silver | Ari | silver | Debatepro |
| Silver | VT | Null | Ari | faust | Joseph |
| UncleEurope | VT | Ari | Ari | Debatepro | Joseph |
| Joseph | VT | Ari | Ari | Raerae | Debatepro |
| raerae | VT | EFHW | EFHW | UncleEurope | faust |
| EFHW | Motion.Dtctr | Joseph | Ari | Joseph | silver |
| Shraeye | Mason2 | faust | Ari | Joseph | silver (#1760) (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg788600#msg788600) |
I am thinking about that argument. It is meh. If scum has a Ninja, then a Motion Detector would not do much of anything really. Possibly would even functionally be negative utility as scum would appear with favourable results. So... I guess it could work out balance-wise?I'm thinking about the argument that 2 investigative roles is too strong for town. Note that both of them are potentially misleading in a closed setup, "non-VT" and " there was movement" wouldn't make me super convinced of what I had caught.It is not so much the fact that there arre no investigative PRs, but rather... scum has little way to counteract what we have. Masons is nothing that scum could work against with any of their PRs. Neapolitan can only be messed with by a Roleblocker, which we do not seem to have (unless EFHW is scum). Motion Detector... well I suppose scum could have a Ninja.
I'm not convinced that it is too strong for town
Also yes "non-VT" does not make you sure of what you caught, but "VT" does. The major strength is creating ICs. Which is pretty good if there already is are two IC-like roles.
I am still very concerned about the way EFHW claimed out of the blue. But I do not think it is likely that we lynch there today, and if we do manage to hit some other scum, then maybe their flip might help us figuring out EFHW. (As in, a Ninja flip would obviously go a long way towards clearing her.)
Either way I don't think we should give her result on Eddie any weight. Either she is scum and it is whatever, or she is town and scum has a Ninja or something and the result is useless (since we have no evidence for other scum targeting roles).
Wild speculation: Scum has daychat. I think scum needs some sort of additional boost in this setup, and daychat makes sense.
Is this correct? Player, Claim, Current Vote, and their top scum reads? Although I know some of the top scum reads have likely changed since #1760 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg788600#msg788600).
Plyr Claim Voting 3.22 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg788864#msg788864) One Two Three (#1752) (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg788541#msg788541) Debatepro VT faust Ari faust EFHW Ari Neap.Enblr Null faust UncleEurope ... faust VT Silver Ari silver Debatepro Silver VT Null Ari faust Joseph UncleEurope VT Ari Ari Debatepro Joseph Joseph VT Ari Ari Raerae Debatepro raerae VT EFHW EFHW UncleEurope faust EFHW Motion.Dtctr Joseph Ari Joseph silver Shraeye Mason2 faust Ari Joseph silver (#1760) (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg788600#msg788600)
I became concerned when I reread and noticed that she did not say anything about Eddie at all before she claimed (at which point you and shraeye were already voting for Eddie).I am thinking about that argument. It is meh. If scum has a Ninja, then a Motion Detector would not do much of anything really. Possibly would even functionally be negative utility as scum would appear with favourable results. So... I guess it could work out balance-wise?I'm thinking about the argument that 2 investigative roles is too strong for town. Note that both of them are potentially misleading in a closed setup, "non-VT" and " there was movement" wouldn't make me super convinced of what I had caught.It is not so much the fact that there arre no investigative PRs, but rather... scum has little way to counteract what we have. Masons is nothing that scum could work against with any of their PRs. Neapolitan can only be messed with by a Roleblocker, which we do not seem to have (unless EFHW is scum). Motion Detector... well I suppose scum could have a Ninja.
I'm not convinced that it is too strong for town
Also yes "non-VT" does not make you sure of what you caught, but "VT" does. The major strength is creating ICs. Which is pretty good if there already is are two IC-like roles.
I am still very concerned about the way EFHW claimed out of the blue. But I do not think it is likely that we lynch there today, and if we do manage to hit some other scum, then maybe their flip might help us figuring out EFHW. (As in, a Ninja flip would obviously go a long way towards clearing her.)
Either way I don't think we should give her result on Eddie any weight. Either she is scum and it is whatever, or she is town and scum has a Ninja or something and the result is useless (since we have no evidence for other scum targeting roles).
Wild speculation: Scum has daychat. I think scum needs some sort of additional boost in this setup, and daychat makes sense.
When did you become concerned with how she claimed? I thought you originally said it was very townie?
I love a well organized table.@all - It takes to much mental energy organize tables manually. I just found SCEditor (https://www.sceditor.com/) which is a WYSIWYG BBCode editor. When you are done with your post, just click the <> button at the end to get the BBCode. SMF tables (https://wiki.simplemachines.org/smf/Table) doesn't support borders. You also can create your table in excel, paste it in this table converter (https://theenemy.dk/table/) to generate the bbcode.
I think it is best to talk about this now.Why now?
EFHW never mentions Eddie (remember her supposed N1 target who she has a favorable result on) at all during D2 until the point where shraeye and raerae are both voting for him. This strikes me as very, very strange.
My plan was to say something by the end of day if it hadn't come up naturally.
Exactly my sentiments. vote: silver. POE.Because I think it is plausible that ari is town. And yes. Well to be honest I don't quite know what to think anymore.I changed my mind.Anyway vote: silverI thought you wanted to lynch ari?
Why and does this change who you think the scum team is?
Exactly my sentiments. vote: silver. POE.Because I think it is plausible that ari is town. And yes. Well to be honest I don't quite know what to think anymore.I changed my mind.Anyway vote: silverI thought you wanted to lynch ari?
Why and does this change who you think the scum team is?
I guess there is a chance of having more than 3 scum. In that scenario, ari's role seems again more fitting for scum. I just... don't quite feel that. And I think in that case we would have been granted some form of protection.13 people and 2 factions is usually 10/3 though. Not seen a case where that isn't true
I guess it doesn't make too much of a difference for what we should do today, except possibly worry about quickhammers. But I expect if it's 4 scum, then one will be Traitor, so coordination will be hard.
As a matter of fact, the reason why you didn't see any motion on me was because VTs don't tend to have a lot going on at night.
Let's play a game:You can just come out and say you think i'm scum. But as I said before, this makes no sense. If I was indeed scum who noticed mail-mi's breadcrumbs, it serves no purpose to push his lynch. He would just claim and not get lynched. That in turn would make him more likely to be protected/watched/whatever at night. If I'm pciking up a breadcrumb as scum, then the sensible thing is to keep my mouth shut and NK that player.
Step 1: Take every player remaining in the game and rank their ability to detect a breadcrumbs based on your previous experience playing with them, reputation, experience, etc. Who would be first, second, or third? Who would be best at manipulating and leveraging that information to push a mislynch? What would that look like?
Step 2: Review timeline
Debatepro:
#1215 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg786906#msg786906) Debatepro Votes: Mail-mi because mail-mi thinks debatepro is a "great person" which debatepro sees as buddying.
Mail-mi:
#1216 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg786906#msg786907) and #1238 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg786906#msg786935) MM posts that he has a town!read on raerae.
Faust:
#1244 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg786906#msg786942) Questions Mail-Mi while pushing DS.
#1246 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg786906#msg786945) Questions mail-mi's list that has raerae & SS as slight town.
#1252 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg786906#msg786955) In response to MM, codes 50 of his messages in under 20 minutes. <- Impressive
#1256 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg786906#msg786960) Questions MM for "i'll be honest".
#1258 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg786906#msg786974) Votes: Mail-mi
Step 3: Don't forget about that list in Step 1. Who was more likely to pick up on mail-mi's breadcrumb, push mislynch, and cover their tracks?
faust has been more engaged in the game, more active. I don't think there is evidence against either of you. I think you are capable of playing a really clean game and still being scum. The no motion result just means you didn't do the kill. I was hoping to discover you doing the kill. If I thought the result made you innocent, I would have spoken up. Since we have learned more about the roles in the game, it seems more and more plausible scum could have no active role other than the nk. My initial impression from the OP was that scum would have two active roles, but we haven't seen any evidence of those.Exactly my sentiments. vote: silver. POE.Because I think it is plausible that ari is town. And yes. Well to be honest I don't quite know what to think anymore.I changed my mind.Anyway vote: silverI thought you wanted to lynch ari?
Why and does this change who you think the scum team is?
In what universe am I more likely to be scum than faust? Don't you think there's way more evidence against faust?
I mean cmon, you literally have an innocent result on me. That should multiply your odds of me being scum by 2/3 (more if there's a rolecop). Are you saying I was previously more than 1.5 times as likely scum as faust? What?
Plus, what's the point of investigating me if you're just going to vote for me despite an innocent result? In that case, you would have done better investigating someone else. Like ariship.
You can just come out and say you think i'm scum. But as I said before, this makes no sense. If I was indeed scum who noticed mail-mi's breadcrumbs, it serves no purpose to push his lynch.
The pr hinting, right away. The raerae town part, not until after he was nk'd.You can just come out and say you think i'm scum. But as I said before, this makes no sense. If I was indeed scum who noticed mail-mi's breadcrumbs, it serves no purpose to push his lynch.
I said that with my vote, the game is to get people to think about more than just you, and you are my example. I also think that why would scum do this is a great cover story.
When did you pick up on MM breadcrumb?
@EFHW - When did you?
I guess there is a chance of having more than 3 scum. In that scenario, ari's role seems again more fitting for scum. I just... don't quite feel that. And I think in that case we would have been granted some form of protection.
I guess it doesn't make too much of a difference for what we should do today, except possibly worry about quickhammers. But I expect if it's 4 scum, then one will be Traitor, so coordination will be hard.
faust has been more engaged in the game, more active.
The no motion result just means you didn't do the kill. I was hoping to discover you doing the kill. If I thought the result made you innocent, I would have spoken up.
As a matter of fact, the reason why you didn't see any motion on me was because VTs don't tend to have a lot going on at night.
This does seem scummy... Vote: Silver
When did you pick up on MM breadcrumb?Whenever the first person pointed it out today.
Hold on. For all the speculating, why has a somewhat obvious solution been very overlooked? I'm not if it's right to blame people for the overlooking, but if faust is willing to entertain daychat then I'm surprised he didn't consider this...What is the obvious solution? 4 scum?
Also wondering why that was scummy.As a matter of fact, the reason why you didn't see any motion on me was because VTs don't tend to have a lot going on at night.
This does seem scummy... Vote: Silver
That at least was enough for silver to overtake someone (yet to be determined) in my trio.
L-2
Hold on. For all the speculating, why has a somewhat obvious solution been very overlooked? I'm not if it's right to blame people for the overlooking, but if faust is willing to entertain daychat then I'm surprised he didn't consider this...What is the obvious solution? 4 scum?
As a matter of fact, the reason why you didn't see any motion on me was because VTs don't tend to have a lot going on at night.
This does seem scummy... Vote: Silver
That at least was enough for silver to overtake someone (yet to be determined) in my trio.
L-2
I think anyway, that was essentially me attempting to formulate a vote count in my head based on Debatepro’s input.
What do you mean by "This game he has been nothing if not absolute and, as scum, he's got no reason to change."? I don't understand.
I'm taking faust off my scum list. This game he has been nothing if not absolute and, as scum, he's got no reason to change. His change of heart on EFHW's claim reads sincere to me. I'm not sold on the silver lynch and won't be voting there today unless somebody has some real damning evidence. Ari is still off the table for me too. Anybody got any better ideas? Can I interest anybody in EFHW?
| Plyr | Claim | Voting 3.22 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg788864#msg788864) | One | Two | Three (#1752) (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg788541#msg788541) |
| Debatepro | VT | faust | Ari | faust | |
| Ari | Neap.Enblr | Null | faust | UncleEurope | ... |
| faust | VT | Silver | Ari | silver | Debatepro |
| Silver | VT | Null | Ari | faust | Joseph |
| UncleEurope | VT | Ari | Ari | Debatepro | Joseph |
| Joseph | VT | Ari | Ari | Raerae | Debatepro |
| raerae | VT | EFHW | EFHW | UncleEurope | faust |
| EFHW | Motion.Dtctr | Joseph | Ari | Joseph | silver |
| Shraeye | Mason2 | faust | Ari | Joseph | silver (#1760) (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg788600#msg788600) |
I wouldn't take too much stock in the "scumteam list", Debate. I wanted to get those opinions out there so we could shake things up and move past them if necessary.
I'm not saying ari is definitely town, but I think it's important to remember that EVERYBODY (save raerae) put him on their list. I find that a bit suspicious, and he's off my #1 slot by a long shot.
Second example, faust is on my radar now.
Tell me why you're a no-go on EFHW first.
If one is pro-town and they have a case to make, then my recommendation is you lay it out clearly with reasons and references. I seem to recall someone asking for that a lot in d1 and d2.Look, dude, if I was sure who is scum here, I would lay out a case. I'm not. I think I have made my thought process on EFHW very transparent.
I don't know if you think that answer should sway me? I mean obviously that is what she would say as either town or scum.
- which she already answered in 1779 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg788623#msg788623) & reposted in 1886 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg788892#msg788892),
I wouldn't take too much stock in the "scumteam list", Debate. I wanted to get those opinions out there so we could shake things up and move past them if necessary.Almost everyone put ari top too.
I'm not saying ari is definitely town, but I think it's important to remember that EVERYBODY (save raerae) put him on their list. I find that a bit suspicious, and he's off my #1 slot by a long shot.
Second example, faust is on my radar now.
It's possible but not seen it in a 13 player game from memoryHold on. For all the speculating, why has a somewhat obvious solution been very overlooked? I'm not if it's right to blame people for the overlooking, but if faust is willing to entertain daychat then I'm surprised he didn't consider this...What is the obvious solution? 4 scum?
What about no? Also being deliberately deceptive by putting my name in redI'm taking faust off my scum list. This game he has been nothing if not absolute and, as scum, he's got no reason to change. His change of heart on EFHW's claim reads sincere to me. I'm not sold on the silver lynch and won't be voting there today unless somebody has some real damning evidence. Ari is still off the table for me too. Anybody got any better ideas? Can I interest anybody in EFHW?
What about Joseph?
Plyr Claim Voting 3.22 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg788864#msg788864) One Two Three (#1752) (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg788541#msg788541) Debatepro VT faust Ari faust EFHWJosephAri Neap.Enblr Null faust UncleEurope ... faust VT Silver Ari silver Debatepro Silver VT Null Ari faust Joseph UncleEurope VT Ari Ari Debatepro Joseph Joseph VT Ari Ari Raerae Debatepro raerae VT EFHW EFHW UncleEurope faust EFHW Motion.Dtctr Joseph Ari Joseph silver Shraeye Mason2 faust Ari Joseph silver (#1760) (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg788600#msg788600)
Let's play a game:This sounds like a great way to waste more time by getting everyone to compile more pointless lists......
Step 1: Take every player remaining in the game and rank their ability to detect a breadcrumbs based on your previous experience playing with them, reputation, experience, etc. Who would be first, second, or third? Who would be best at manipulating and leveraging that information to push a mislynch? What would that look like?
Step 2: Review timeline
Debatepro:
#1215 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg786906#msg786906) Debatepro Votes: Mail-mi because mail-mi thinks debatepro is a "great person" which debatepro sees as buddying.
Mail-mi:
#1216 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg786906#msg786907) and #1238 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg786906#msg786935) MM posts that he has a town!read on raerae.
Faust:
#1244 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg786906#msg786942) Questions Mail-Mi while pushing DS.
#1246 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg786906#msg786945) Questions mail-mi's list that has raerae & SS as slight town.
#1252 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg786906#msg786955) In response to MM, codes 50 of his messages in under 20 minutes. <- Impressive
#1256 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg786906#msg786960) Questions MM for "i'll be honest".
#1258 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg786906#msg786974) Votes: Mail-mi
Step 3: Don't forget about that list in Step 1. Who was more likely to pick up on mail-mi's breadcrumb, push mislynch, and cover their tracks?
I could be tempted by EFHW, but for now I want to Vote: Debatepro
Feels like scum just wanting to burn time with pointless lists and suggesting bad wagons
Not just that, it's based on entirely cheap pointless reads lists that we didn't need to waste time doingI could be tempted by EFHW, but for now I want to Vote: Debatepro
Feels like scum just wanting to burn time with pointless lists and suggesting bad wagons
This is the laziest post ever. "Bad wagon" because it's on you?
I think Debatepro and ss could be a scum combo. Debatepro suggesting a wagon for no reason on me, and ss then calling me scummy for calling Debatepro out on it
I could be tempted by EFHW, but for now I want to Vote: Debatepro
Feels like scum just wanting to burn time with pointless lists and suggesting bad wagons
Okay well then my list above would be the thought experiment done for meI could be tempted by EFHW, but for now I want to Vote: Debatepro
Feels like scum just wanting to burn time with pointless lists and suggesting bad wagons
It’s mental list, you know a thought experiment.
How is Debatepro obv!town?I think Debatepro and ss could be a scum combo. Debatepro suggesting a wagon for no reason on me, and ss then calling me scummy for calling Debatepro out on it
I've been calling debatepro obv!town and my biggest townread since day 1 and now you think we're a team because I'm calling you out for a lazy read?
I think you're flat wrong on lists being anti town if that's something you actually believe.
As a new player, aren't there some advantages to pulling the trigger a bit earlier than expected if you are fairly certain? I mean... doesn't it give their scum!buddies a chance to build an alternative narrative impacting future votes.
Let's be honest, it's MiX, why keep them around? If you are their scum!buddy you have read the writing on the wall and you want to keep the day going long enough to build some alternative narratives. And if we're wrong... I'm not sure its a huge loss.
This is nothing against MiX, I'll be the first one to pour one out for them if they are town and put on the dunce hat. I think some of the issues are a change in the speed of the game compared to what they are used to and the available time.
Three posts in a row complaining about the lists after faust said the complaining was towny.Not just that, it's based on entirely cheap pointless reads lists that we didn't need to waste time doingI could be tempted by EFHW, but for now I want to Vote: Debatepro
Feels like scum just wanting to burn time with pointless lists and suggesting bad wagons
This is the laziest post ever. "Bad wagon" because it's on you?
And trying to waste more time with more lists is scummy
Except that you said you were trying to make my claim look good so I would be nk'd.If one is pro-town and they have a case to make, then my recommendation is you lay it out clearly with reasons and references. I seem to recall someone asking for that a lot in d1 and d2.Look, dude, if I was sure who is scum here, I would lay out a case. I'm not. I think I have made my thought process on EFHW very transparent.
I did... I am not sure how that is a point against what I said.Except that you said you were trying to make my claim look good so I would be nk'd.If one is pro-town and they have a case to make, then my recommendation is you lay it out clearly with reasons and references. I seem to recall someone asking for that a lot in d1 and d2.Look, dude, if I was sure who is scum here, I would lay out a case. I'm not. I think I have made my thought process on EFHW very transparent.
Hmmm, no support for a Faust lynch. But also only raerae saying no to it.Not only raerae:
Town: me, shraeye, raerae, faust
Just on my phone here, but was Uncle's awkward vote after I voted for Faust or before?After.
I'm leaning town on faust.True, but I have since clarified that. I assure you that I have no further hidden agenda with my read on you.
PPE faust - that's not being transparent.
Ah, phones and bad memories. Got it.I don't see that. The main thing Debatepro has got going for him in my eyes is that he's unlikely to be ari's partner.
Also, DebatePro is reading more town all the time, I feel
Why does everyone voting for him take him off your list? It could mean easy mislynch or it could mean scum bussing and not wanting to be seen as supporting him.
I'm not saying ari is definitely town, but I think it's important to remember that EVERYBODY (save raerae) put him on their list. I find that a bit suspicious, and he's off my #1 slot by a long shot.
I'm up for aShocker.
vote: faust
lynch.
I know I can be frustrating, but my post is a plea to potential town.faust to pretend like he is teaching a child how to ride a bike and spell it out more clearly.If one is pro-town and they have a case to make, then my recommendation is you lay it out clearly with reasons and references. I seem to recall someone asking for that a lot in d1 and d2.Look, dude, if I was sure who is scum here, I would lay out a case. I'm not. I think I have made my thought process on EFHW very transparent.
because not lynching ari is stupidAnd yet you have never voted for ari today.
I can do this. On EFHW, we have the following data points. (this is excluding any additional reads not based on PR stuff in order to make the argument clearer.)I know I can be frustrating, but my post is a plea to potential town.faust to pretend like he is teaching a child how to ride a bike and spell it out more clearly.If one is pro-town and they have a case to make, then my recommendation is you lay it out clearly with reasons and references. I seem to recall someone asking for that a lot in d1 and d2.Look, dude, if I was sure who is scum here, I would lay out a case. I'm not. I think I have made my thought process on EFHW very transparent.
Also if the ari shenanigans at the end of D1 and my vote on MiX taught me anything, it is to treat my scum reads as somewhere way less than 90% certain.
I think Debatepro and ss could be a scum combo. Debatepro suggesting a wagon for no reason on me, and ss then calling me scummy for calling Debatepro out on it
Sorry man, your D1 scumread of silver does not buy you non-partner-cred, especially considering that you flip around rather quickly:I think Debatepro and ss could be a scum combo. Debatepro suggesting a wagon for no reason on me, and ss then calling me scummy for calling Debatepro out on it
I did have a reason, raerae who is on both of our townie lists asked a question "anyone else worth looking at". I looked at the list of everyone's reads and you were on it more than once across an interesting selection of players. (BTW it's red because green doesn't make any sense and i am not supposed to use teal. Does red mean something special in the context of this game?)
You only have to go back to my first day's posts and read them to know that the combo you propose can't possibly be the case:
- My very first reads list in reply to MiX is in #289 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg784733#msg784733) where I say in more than one place that I get a scumvibe from SS.
- In #445 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg785078#msg785078) I lay out a comprehensive case against SS as being scum for coming to the defense of MiX. I believe he has fallen into my trap (you should all be laughing).
- SS replies in #487 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg785118#msg785118) that "I'm not going to respond to the debatepro post because it strikes me as super hostile and getting into a fight about it as unhelpful. But if anyone else thinks any particular thing in it is a legitimate point, I can respond to that one."
- Debatepro decides he went overboard in the case and waits to see what happens with MiX to give SS another read.
This is part of my problem with faust's list, because I am not on a team with either of them and this should be obvious if you read through my interactions. In his defense, he did say he say that ari, ss, and debate don't make sense as a team.
PPE: 1
There where 8 votes on MiX if you count the post hammer vote for s by SS.
At least two of those votes are town and I’d say the SS is probably town as well because they gave the best defense of MiX as town.
Right now the player I trust the most is SS. Vote: Arishipshape
Does this help?
Sorry man, your D1 scumread of silver does not buy you non-partner-cred, especially considering that you flip around rather quickly:There where 8 votes on MiX if you count the post hammer vote for s by SS. At least two of those votes are town and I’d say the SS is probably town as well because they gave the best defense of MiX as town.Right now the player I trust the most is SS. Vote: Arishipshape
Part of the ExperiencedScumBuddy thought experiment is to get the more experienced town players to really think through what is going on. I mean pretend your scum, how would you have coached me to play in D1-D3? Does it look like anything you've seen in my play? It shouldn't and I can say that with confidence, but what do I know.Why do you think your coached play as coached scum would not look like your actual play?
Hey, ari, since you are no longer the top lynch candidate, would you care to, you know, play the game?Whenever I do that, people want to kill me.
I feel like a scum coach would give a list of do's and dont's to a first time player. And piss people off, frustrate people, draw attention to yourself, etc. would probably be on the list of things to avoid. To which you say "but that would give you cover" and we go round and round.Part of the ExperiencedScumBuddy thought experiment is to get the more experienced town players to really think through what is going on. I mean pretend your scum, how would you have coached me to play in D1-D3? Does it look like anything you've seen in my play? It shouldn't and I can say that with confidence, but what do I know.Why do you think your coached play as coached scum would not look like your actual play?
And yet you think ari, who has done all these things, is scum?I feel like a scum coach would give a list of do's and dont's to a first time player. And piss people off, frustrate people, draw attention to yourself, etc. would probably be on the list of things to avoid. To which you say "but that would give you cover" and we go round and round.Part of the ExperiencedScumBuddy thought experiment is to get the more experienced town players to really think through what is going on. I mean pretend your scum, how would you have coached me to play in D1-D3? Does it look like anything you've seen in my play? It shouldn't and I can say that with confidence, but what do I know.Why do you think your coached play as coached scum would not look like your actual play?
I'm not trying to be frustrating. Sorry if I amAnd yet you think ari, who has done all these things, is scum?I feel like a scum coach would give a list of do's and dont's to a first time player. And piss people off, frustrate people, draw attention to yourself, etc. would probably be on the list of things to avoid. To which you say "but that would give you cover" and we go round and round.Part of the ExperiencedScumBuddy thought experiment is to get the more experienced town players to really think through what is going on. I mean pretend your scum, how would you have coached me to play in D1-D3? Does it look like anything you've seen in my play? It shouldn't and I can say that with confidence, but what do I know.Why do you think your coached play as coached scum would not look like your actual play?
And yet you think ari, who has done all these things, is scum?I feel like a scum coach would give a list of do's and dont's to a first time player. And piss people off, frustrate people, draw attention to yourself, etc. would probably be on the list of things to avoid. To which you say "but that would give you cover" and we go round and round.Part of the ExperiencedScumBuddy thought experiment is to get the more experienced town players to really think through what is going on. I mean pretend your scum, how would you have coached me to play in D1-D3? Does it look like anything you've seen in my play? It shouldn't and I can say that with confidence, but what do I know.Why do you think your coached play as coached scum would not look like your actual play?
Ariship:
#67 says nothing ... mix's play is both scum and not scum
#158: Questioning Shraeye for voting for mix? perhaps Noob giving props for their first buddy, but im not sure, seems like amateur hour to defend someone you don't already work with... especially with the early buddy call out by others... no attempt to correct the record.
Seems sketch...
#153 Those minor shade to Mix, "FOS" a "little objectionable"
#154 Mix says it's minor shade can airship unvote
#156 Ariship unvotes because it's only minor...
#165 "Hence reason for my unvote for Mix..." however unvote justification was that early FOS is just for buddying was premature, but the justification in this post is that Mix is quietly not responding all votes. Reasons are different even if not mutually exclusive.
Generally speaking, it is bad practice to quote stuff you wrote elsewhere at an earlier point, or at least a subset of people here including me thinks so.And yet you think ari, who has done all these things, is scum?I feel like a scum coach would give a list of do's and dont's to a first time player. And piss people off, frustrate people, draw attention to yourself, etc. would probably be on the list of things to avoid. To which you say "but that would give you cover" and we go round and round.Part of the ExperiencedScumBuddy thought experiment is to get the more experienced town players to really think through what is going on. I mean pretend your scum, how would you have coached me to play in D1-D3? Does it look like anything you've seen in my play? It shouldn't and I can say that with confidence, but what do I know.Why do you think your coached play as coached scum would not look like your actual play?
Touche. But I had a scum read on ari at the same time I had one on SS and MiX. In fact, I thought they were a team on 26 Jan, took a bunch of notes (below) and he hasn't done anything in that time to change my opinion.Code: [Select]Ariship:
#67 says nothing ... mix's play is both scum and not scum
#158: Questioning Shraeye for voting for mix? perhaps Noob giving props for their first buddy, but im not sure, seems like amateur hour to defend someone you don't already work with... especially with the early buddy call out by others... no attempt to correct the record.
Seems sketch...
#153 Those minor shade to Mix, "FOS" a "little objectionable"
#154 Mix says it's minor shade can airship unvote
#156 Ariship unvotes because it's only minor...
#165 "Hence reason for my unvote for Mix..." however unvote justification was that early FOS is just for buddying was premature, but the justification in this post is that Mix is quietly not responding all votes. Reasons are different even if not mutually exclusive.
Also that does not invalidate my point. You think we must see that you are town for behaviour that someone you think is scum exhibits. That just does not make sense.Your filter is broken and narrow on this one point about coaching. I have a multiple point case, I think you know this and I find this preferencing and narrowing behavior scummy.
This is silly. Just because I am responding to one thing that I find off does not mean I am ignoring the other things.Also that does not invalidate my point. You think we must see that you are town for behaviour that someone you think is scum exhibits. That just does not make sense.Your filter is broken and narrow on this one point about coaching. I have a multiple point case, I think you know this and I find this preferencing and narrowing behavior scummy.
Generally speaking, it is bad practice to quote stuff you wrote elsewhere at an earlier point, or at least a subset of people here including me thinks so.
See here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14692.0).Generally speaking, it is bad practice to quote stuff you wrote elsewhere at an earlier point, or at least a subset of people here including me thinks so.
I don't want to get sidetracked here, apologies if I violated some decorum. If i restate from notes i already wrote without using the quotes/code tags and say this is a synopsis of my notes is a violation?
Not trying to be a pain about it, just not sure where to draw the line, because it seems people are taking notes and ~posting~ from them.
This is silly. Just because I am responding to one thing that I find off does not mean I am ignoring the other things.Also that does not invalidate my point. You think we must see that you are town for behaviour that someone you think is scum exhibits. That just does not make sense.Your filter is broken and narrow on this one point about coaching. I have a multiple point case, I think you know this and I find this preferencing and narrowing behavior scummy.
Hey, ari, since you are no longer the top lynch candidate, would you care to, you know, play the game?Whenever I do that, people want to kill me.
&Raerae if EFHW is lunched and she flips scum what does that tell us about her team, Eddie?
Alright team, we are again ambling sloooowly towards the deadline. Let's get real and make this happen in the next 24 hrs, eh?
Mr. The Faust
Mr. The Faust
Seems like a poor choice. Why not EFHW?
Mr. The Faust
Seems like a poor choice. Why not EFHW?
@EFHW what do you think of faust’s pseudo-case in #1952 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg789022#msg789022)? I say pseudo-case not out of disrespect but just that it didn’t over sell what he thinks.He's being fair. I didn't say anything early about Eddie because I didn't want to be asked why. I planned to say it near the deadline. I guess he would have made a different choice. I wouldn't vote me based on that, and he isn't either, so far.
Mr. The FaustAre you still interested in silver?
Anyway, I think there is some substantive and nuanced differences between the two plays you sense tension in. Most notably my posts that might "piss people off, frustrate people, draw attention to myself" actually contain evidence, references, and reasoned arguments, and attempts to be helpful to town. I don't see that from Ari.And scum would not coach a newbie into appearing helpful to town?
That would be interesting; I have a hard time seeing how Joseph's playstyle amounts to a town read.Same
Depending in how interested people are in voting for Joseph, I might put together a case for him being town. I think out of all options for today (excluding me), he is the worst.Don't you just love it when two scumreads defend eachother? It kinda puts a nice bow on everything.
Meh; definitely not my preference.Mr. The FaustAre you still interested in silver?
LL is mason, so that's one of the big wagons off the table.He puts his would lynchs as 3 townies. I think Joseph is the kind of player that would name a scumpartner here.
And we know that {mail-mi, raerae} aren't LL's mason partner (as LL suggested them as lynch candidates)
I think {raerae, DatSwan, mail-mi} are the 3 I'd prefer for today
None of them seem towny to me (mail-mi would be my least preferred of the 3, as it's mainly for anti-town lurking)
PPE: 1
Also a rules question:I am pretty sure scum has gone through things and knows that shraeye is LaLight's partner at this point. The question could be fake, but it is so awkward that I am not sure scum would come up with it in the first place.
Mod: if Masons are in the setup, are there guaranteed to be at least 2 of them
Vote: DatswanThis just reads genuine to me. The case was pretty bad.
That "read" of me was a load of fake bullshit trying to pull a case from nothing
Very scummy
Let's do some maths hereThis is a pro-town effort. I wasn't aware of the 5 VT thing before that. Scum is hesitant to point out setup stuff like that because it tends to get them scumread.
13 players so max 10 town
Setup says at least 5 VT = max 5 PR
claimed PRs are:
LL- Mason (confirmed)
Shraeye- Mason
Mail-mi - neapolitan (confirmed)
Ari- neapolitan enabler
EFHW- motion detector
I know/believe the other 4 PRs, so the chance of ari being a fifth town PR isn't greatIn a similar vein as before, this reads townie. Scum is clearly aware of the mail-mi thing, I don't think scum tries to fake having missed that when it was talked about so extensively already.What supposed result?Raerae- I went off the thought of lynching raerae yesterday, because I thought Datswan was scum. Their interactions yesterday always struck me as scum/townWhat do you think about mail-mi's supposed result on raerae?
Clearly I missed it, can someone post it again please?So of the people alive, my views are:Probably not as useful to others as it is to me, but I think in our current situation scum very much wants to keep to option open to vote for me, and Joseph puts me as squarely town.
Town: me, shraeye, raerae, faust
Null: Uncle
Slightly scummy: EFHW, ss
Scummy: Debatepro, ari
PPE: 2
ari, faust, JosephGreat list. Ari and the two people who seem to find ari the scummiest
Naturally that must be the scum team.......
The tone in those isn't something that helps Joseph win people to their side. I think it sounds more like annoyed town.So, it seems like now is a nice time to claim. EFHW and raerae have a chance to disagree on that decision, if they can make me believe their opinion.I think we should've just claimed rather than waste 2 days posting scum reads and waiting for people to do it
But hey, each to their own
Mr. The FaustI figured you were just voting for me to bait scum, but no it has gone on for too long and we are too close to the deadline, so I guess somehow you feel I am scum? Does it not bother you that your top townreads disagree?
Okay, I tried to gather my thoughts. First I think everyone can reread Joseph, they (I just remembered that Jospeh said they prefer "they" pronouns; sorry about before) have not terribly many posts and the vast majority of them is short.Formatting messed up. EBWOP.
If you look at the posts, I think a thing that strikes me as townie is their reads are never hedgy. At every point Joseph's scum and town reads are very clear and when they are pressed to share what their read on a specific player are, there is always a short definite concise answer.
Some other posts that I think are townie:LL is mason, so that's one of the big wagons off the table.He puts his would lynchs as 3 townies. I think Joseph is the kind of player that would name a scumpartner here.
And we know that {mail-mi, raerae} aren't LL's mason partner (as LL suggested them as lynch candidates)
I think {raerae, DatSwan, mail-mi} are the 3 I'd prefer for today
None of them seem towny to me (mail-mi would be my least preferred of the 3, as it's mainly for anti-town lurking)
PPE: 1Also a rules question:I am pretty sure scum has gone through things and knows that shraeye is LaLight's partner at this point. The question could be fake, but it is so awkward that I am not sure scum would come up with it in the first place.
Mod: if Masons are in the setup, are there guaranteed to be at least 2 of themVote: DatswanThis just reads genuine to me. The case was pretty bad.
That "read" of me was a load of fake bullshit trying to pull a case from nothing
Very scummyLet's do some maths hereThis is a pro-town effort. I wasn't aware of the 5 VT thing before that. Scum is hesitant to point out setup stuff like that because it tends to get them scumread.
13 players so max 10 town
Setup says at least 5 VT = max 5 PR
claimed PRs are:
LL- Mason (confirmed)
Shraeye- Mason
Mail-mi - neapolitan (confirmed)
Ari- neapolitan enabler
EFHW- motion detector
I know/believe the other 4 PRs, so the chance of ari being a fifth town PR isn't greatari, faust, JosephGreat list. Ari and the two people who seem to find ari the scummiest
Naturally that must be the scum team.......The tone in those isn't something that helps Joseph win people to their side. I think it sounds more like annoyed town.So, it seems like now is a nice time to claim. EFHW and raerae have a chance to disagree on that decision, if they can make me believe their opinion.I think we should've just claimed rather than waste 2 days posting scum reads and waiting for people to do it
But hey, each to their ownIn a similar vein as before, this reads townie. Scum is clearly aware of the mail-mi thing, I don't think scum tries to fake having missed that when it was talked about so extensively already.What supposed result?Raerae- I went off the thought of lynching raerae yesterday, because I thought Datswan was scum. Their interactions yesterday always struck me as scum/townWhat do you think about mail-mi's supposed result on raerae?
Clearly I missed it, can someone post it again please?So of the people alive, my views are:Probably not as useful to others as it is to me, but I think in our current situation scum very much wants to keep to option open to vote for me, and Joseph puts me as squarely town.
Town: me, shraeye, raerae, faust
Null: Uncle
Slightly scummy: EFHW, ss
Scummy: Debatepro, ari
PPE: 2
Okay, I tried to gather my thoughts. First I think everyone can reread Joseph, they (I just remembered that Jospeh said they prefer "they" pronouns; sorry about before) have not terribly many posts and the vast majority of them is short.
If you look at the posts, I think a thing that strikes me as townie is their reads are never hedgy. At every point Joseph's scum and town reads are very clear and when they are pressed to share what their read on a specific player are, there is always a short definite concise answer.
No not really. I am using M118 as a reference game. He is very reactionary there, most of his posts are direct comments of waht others say. That is very much not the case here. For an illustration of this, Joseph uses the word "agreed" 6 times in M118 (that is 20.6% of all uses of the word in the game - including quoted stuff). He has not used it a single time here.Okay, I tried to gather my thoughts. First I think everyone can reread Joseph, they (I just remembered that Jospeh said they prefer "they" pronouns; sorry about before) have not terribly many posts and the vast majority of them is short.
If you look at the posts, I think a thing that strikes me as townie is their reads are never hedgy. At every point Joseph's scum and town reads are very clear and when they are pressed to share what their read on a specific player are, there is always a short definite concise answer.
I went back and read some of Joseph's previous games because I had a moment of clarity about them as a player and I wanted to check it. I wondered if I was too harsh to them because of the depth & insight offered by their posts. I can confirm:
1. They are not a person of many words or insights
2. Their analysis is almost always "definite & concise"
All the above is true when they are scum, go to his profile, click posts, and read his last scum games.
No not really. I am using M118 as a reference game. He is very reactionary there, most of his posts are direct comments of waht others say. That is very much not the case here. For an illustration of this, Joseph uses the word "agreed" 6 times in M118 (that is 20.6% of all uses of the word in the game - including quoted stuff). He has not used it a single time here.
No not really. I am using M118 as a reference game. He is very reactionary there, most of his posts are direct comments of waht others say. That is very much not the case here. For an illustration of this, Joseph uses the word "agreed" 6 times in M118 (that is 20.6% of all uses of the word in the game - including quoted stuff). He has not used it a single time here.Okay, I tried to gather my thoughts. First I think everyone can reread Joseph, they (I just remembered that Jospeh said they prefer "they" pronouns; sorry about before) have not terribly many posts and the vast majority of them is short.
If you look at the posts, I think a thing that strikes me as townie is their reads are never hedgy. At every point Joseph's scum and town reads are very clear and when they are pressed to share what their read on a specific player are, there is always a short definite concise answer.
I went back and read some of Joseph's previous games because I had a moment of clarity about them as a player and I wanted to check it. I wondered if I was too harsh to them because of the depth & insight offered by their posts. I can confirm:
1. They are not a person of many words or insights
2. Their analysis is almost always "definite & concise"
All the above is true when they are scum, go to his profile, click posts, and read his last scum games.
Mr. The Faust
Seems like a poor choice. Why not EFHW?
Claim sounded towny, claim was risky as scum, I think the timing isn't as strange as faust paints it.
I look forward to the lunch.Mr. The Faust
Seems like a poor choice. Why not EFHW?
Claim sounded towny, claim was risky as scum, I think the timing isn't as strange as faust paints it.
In what way was it townie?? Also, screw what faust says (no offense, friend) this was my argument first and I'm not sheeping him. Believe it or not, I am capable of independent thought. Uncle was getting limited pressure when she claimed. She wasn't getting any pressure to claim and very easily could have just said, "He feels townie to me," like EVERY OTHER PERSON in this game has and I would have been the only one upset about it. As scum it was perfect timing because it gets her and her partner a pass for, now, going on two days. They force another mislynch here, she claims a movement result tomorrow on whoever we think is scummiest today (probably Ari), we lunch then and scum wins the game. Done and dusted, dude, done and dusted.
No not really. I am using M118 as a reference game. He is very reactionary there, most of his posts are direct comments of waht others say. That is very much not the case here. For an illustration of this, Joseph uses the word "agreed" 6 times in M118 (that is 20.6% of all uses of the word in the game - including quoted stuff). He has not used it a single time here.
That's not what actually happened. I said Eddie was townie. Someone asked why and I didn't want to answer and Shraeye said ok. Then Shraeye asked again, so I answered. So really, he determined the timing of my claim. I feel like your scumread on me is completely speculation. And while the narrative could be true, there isn't really much to support it. You've also been ignoring other people's points about how scum would not have done what I did.Mr. The Faust
Seems like a poor choice. Why not EFHW?
Claim sounded towny, claim was risky as scum, I think the timing isn't as strange as faust paints it.
In what way was it townie?? Also, screw what faust says (no offense, friend) this was my argument first and I'm not sheeping him. Believe it or not, I am capable of independent thought. Uncle was getting limited pressure when she claimed. She wasn't getting any pressure to claim and very easily could have just said, "He feels townie to me," like EVERY OTHER PERSON in this game has and I would have been the only one upset about it. As scum it was perfect timing because it gets her and her partner a pass for, now, going on two days. They force another mislynch here, she claims a movement result tomorrow on whoever we think is scummiest today (probably Ari), we lunch then and scum wins the game. Done and dusted, dude, done and dusted.
That's not what actually happened. I said Eddie was townie. Someone asked why and I didn't want to answer and Shraeye said ok. Then Shraeye asked again, so I answered. So really, he determined the timing of my claim. I feel like your scumread on me is completely speculation. And while the narrative could be true, there isn't really much to support it. You've also been ignoring other people's points about how scum would not have done what I did.Mr. The Faust
Seems like a poor choice. Why not EFHW?
Claim sounded towny, claim was risky as scum, I think the timing isn't as strange as faust paints it.
In what way was it townie?? Also, screw what faust says (no offense, friend) this was my argument first and I'm not sheeping him. Believe it or not, I am capable of independent thought. Uncle was getting limited pressure when she claimed. She wasn't getting any pressure to claim and very easily could have just said, "He feels townie to me," like EVERY OTHER PERSON in this game has and I would have been the only one upset about it. As scum it was perfect timing because it gets her and her partner a pass for, now, going on two days. They force another mislynch here, she claims a movement result tomorrow on whoever we think is scummiest today (probably Ari), we lunch then and scum wins the game. Done and dusted, dude, done and dusted.
Which is why I find it unlikely a scum would claim there, it looks weird.
And scum would want to wait till the last possible second to claim, IMO. Why make a claim early before knowing how many PRs there are around especially when other forms of protecting me (if I am her partner) exist.
I only had two votes on me, that’s the most insane scum play. It is much more reasonable for a town to claim early.
I'm good with a faust vote, and I'll probably vote faust. However, i shall withold my vote to avoid L-1. Closer to the deadline i'll probably put my vote on him
Disagreeing and ignoring are two different things. Also, you and I have a different idea of "pressure" if somebody asking twice equates to a forced claim.To be fair, it wasn't just anyone asking, but the IC.
Which is why I find it unlikely a scum would claim there, it looks weird.
And scum would want to wait till the last possible second to claim, IMO. Why make a claim early before knowing how many PRs there are around especially when other forms of protecting me (if I am her partner) exist.
I only had two votes on me, that’s the most insane scum play. It is much more reasonable for a town to claim early.
Another thing I would 100% do as scum. mail-mi was practically taking out billboards about how role and I don't believe for a second she missed that. Nobody thinks Ari is town so it's basically her against him when she claims. It's a great place to as scum.
Also, in reference to earlier events, it is up to UmbrageOfSnow whether to take any action against DebatePro, but I would ask everyone to refrain from quoting any outside information in their posts, even personal notes, per f.ds mafia policy.
Which is why I find it unlikely a scum would claim there, it looks weird.
And scum would want to wait till the last possible second to claim, IMO. Why make a claim early before knowing how many PRs there are around especially when other forms of protecting me (if I am her partner) exist.
I only had two votes on me, that’s the most insane scum play. It is much more reasonable for a town to claim early.
Another thing I would 100% do as scum. mail-mi was practically taking out billboards about how role and I don't believe for a second she missed that. Nobody thinks Ari is town so it's basically her against him when she claims. It's a great place to as scum.
Ari hadn’t claimed yet when she did, so the claim could have come from you or someone who was much more towny in people’s eyes at the time, she would have no way of knowing.
Now for a series of questions so I can get a better idea of your thoughts regarding all of this.
If you weren’t allowed to be vote for EFHW, then who would you vote for? You mentioned Joseph, does faust’s case mean anything to you in regards to that read? Do you still want me to die?
If the scum team is me and EFHW then who is our partner? Why would I try to get her lynched day one near the deadline?
Have you looked at our interactions in the past? Do they confirm or deny this partnership? Does me blatantly defending her mean you are going to be more paranoid? Probably. Do you find me scummy apart from my connection to EFHW?
I'm sure I've missed questions but I'm on my phone and it's the best I can do. Frankly, EFHW's lunch probably isn't happening today which makes mean more sure I'm right. With (probably) three scum still around they can afford to spread out but NOBODY is biting on her lunch so it seems like there's town on the table and they're lining up there instead.Yes they are. But look where your scumreads are voting. Eddie voting for Joseph. Joseph is the only one voting for Debatepro. The town scum are lining up to lynch is me, but your scumreads aren't there.
The word "agreed" appears 29 times. 6 of those are Joseph. That's 20.6%.Quote from: faust link=topic=19407.msg789240#msg789240
[/quoteNo not really. I am using M118 as a reference game. He is very reactionary there, most of his posts are direct comments of waht others say. That is very much not the case here. For an illustration of this, Joseph uses the word "agreed" 6 times in M118 (that is 20.6% of all uses of the word in the game - including quoted stuff). He has not used it a single time here.
Can you explain your math? Last 20 posts are ~600 words of his own text and one instance of agreed. That was about 1 out of 20 posts.
I'm sure I've missed questions but I'm on my phone and it's the best I can do. Frankly, EFHW's lunch probably isn't happening today which makes mean more sure I'm right. With (probably) three scum still around they can afford to spread out but NOBODY is biting on her lunch so it seems like there's town on the table and they're lining up there instead.Yes they are. But look where your scumreads are voting. Eddie voting for Joseph. Joseph is the only one voting for Debatepro. The town scum are lining up to lynch is me, but your scumreads aren't there.
If you were right about your scumreads, it would have been super easy for them to lynch me by now.
No, I don't think that (and obviously shraeye is voting for me). But I think that if all town are on me, then two scum would have jumped by now to seal the deal. Voting a mislynch with the IC is pretty attractive for scum. I am very sure that at least one of silver/Debate is scum.I'm sure I've missed questions but I'm on my phone and it's the best I can do. Frankly, EFHW's lunch probably isn't happening today which makes mean more sure I'm right. With (probably) three scum still around they can afford to spread out but NOBODY is biting on her lunch so it seems like there's town on the table and they're lining up there instead.Yes they are. But look where your scumreads are voting. Eddie voting for Joseph. Joseph is the only one voting for Debatepro. The town scum are lining up to lynch is me, but your scumreads aren't there.
If you were right about your scumreads, it would have been super easy for them to lynch me by now.
Neither one of us exactly has an impeccable record this game. I'm not sure if be so confident that everybody voting for you is scum.
And actually, I wanted to ask: silver, Debate, could you summarize why you are voting for me?Off the top of my head:
And actually, I wanted to ask: silver, Debate, could you summarize why you are voting for me?Off the top of my head:
1. Non-town-aligned-dialog-preferencing
2. Reflecting responses
3. Reversal responses
4. Gödel's second incompleteness theorem
5. Information sharing and analysis
6. Your still alive
And actually, I wanted to ask: silver, Debate, could you summarize why you are voting for me?Off the top of my head:
1. Non-town-aligned-dialog-preferencing
2. Reflecting responses
3. Reversal responses
4. Gödel's second incompleteness theorem
5. Information sharing and analysis
6. Your still alive
Please explain how this is a scum tactic?
When did you pick up on MM breadcrumb?Whenever the first person pointed it out today {day 3}.
@raerae - You believe this?When did you pick up on MM breadcrumb?Whenever the first person pointed it out today {day 3}.
I was just going to post that his being IC was a big part of why I answered.Disagreeing and ignoring are two different things. Also, you and I have a different idea of "pressure" if somebody asking twice equates to a forced claim.To be fair, it wasn't just anyone asking, but the IC.
I'm good with a faust vote, and I'll probably vote faust. However, i shall withold my vote to avoid L-1. Closer to the deadline i'll probably put my vote on himWhy?
@raerae - You believe this?Yeah, I think he was too far into his own "mail-mi is scum" narrative to see what was right in front of him.When did you pick up on MM breadcrumb?Whenever the first person pointed it out today {day 3}.
I'm game for DatSwan lynch. I will not under any circumstances vote for mail-mi and will absolutely assign scumpoints to anybody who does.
This is what mail-mi did (but he went overboard and signaled to scum that he is a PR).
What supposed result?Raerae- I went off the thought of lynching raerae yesterday, because I thought Datswan was scum. Their interactions yesterday always struck me as scum/townWhat do you think about mail-mi's supposed result on raerae?
Clearly I missed it, can someone post it again please?
You seriously missed it?? Did anybody answer this? There was a lot about this; I'll link mail-mi's breadcrumbs. AND I'll link the 3 people discussing it specifically on Day3. I won't link all the other day3 discussion around it
He mentions 3 times that either (A) he had a scumread on raerae, but it's gone (she didn't change what she was doing) or that (B) he was looking for scumminess, but exempting raerae
Then raerae humorously called them loaves, instead of breadcrumbs:
DebatePro made a big analysis about why he missed the breadcrumbs:
plus a followup
And a discussion about whether EFHW did or did not pick up on them as well.
So, Joseph. what are your thoughts on this?
Can you put that in a way that might actually convince someone?And actually, I wanted to ask: silver, Debate, could you summarize why you are voting for me?Off the top of my head:
1. Non-town-aligned-dialog-preferencing
2. Reflecting responses
3. Reversal responses
4. Gödel's second incompleteness theorem
5. Information sharing and analysis
6. Your still alive
@raerae - You believe this?Yeah, I think he was too far into his own "mail-mi is scum" narrative to see what was right in front of him.When did you pick up on MM breadcrumb?Whenever the first person pointed it out today {day 3}.
Really? So you don't think after this post, he didn't think hmmm... I wonder why mail-mi is all the sudden getting the double circle of protection?I'm game for DatSwan lynch. I will not under any circumstances vote for mail-mi and will absolutely assign scumpoints to anybody who does.
Signaled it to scum but not faust?This is what mail-mi did (but he went overboard and signaled to scum that he is a PR).
This post should handle all the details and necessary preempts.What supposed result?Raerae- I went off the thought of lynching raerae yesterday, because I thought Datswan was scum. Their interactions yesterday always struck me as scum/townWhat do you think about mail-mi's supposed result on raerae?
Clearly I missed it, can someone post it again please?
You seriously missed it?? Did anybody answer this? There was a lot about this; I'll link mail-mi's breadcrumbs. AND I'll link the 3 people discussing it specifically on Day3. I won't link all the other day3 discussion around it
He mentions 3 times that either (A) he had a scumread on raerae, but it's gone (she didn't change what she was doing) or that (B) he was looking for scumminess, but exempting raerae
Then raerae humorously called them loaves, instead of breadcrumbs:
DebatePro made a big analysis about why he missed the breadcrumbs:
plus a followup
And a discussion about whether EFHW did or did not pick up on them as well.
So, Joseph. what are your thoughts on this?
My reads have been shit so farI'm sure I've missed questions but I'm on my phone and it's the best I can do. Frankly, EFHW's lunch probably isn't happening today which makes mean more sure I'm right. With (probably) three scum still around they can afford to spread out but NOBODY is biting on her lunch so it seems like there's town on the table and they're lining up there instead.Yes they are. But look where your scumreads are voting. Eddie voting for Joseph. Joseph is the only one voting for Debatepro. The town scum are lining up to lynch is me, but your scumreads aren't there.
If you were right about your scumreads, it would have been super easy for them to lynch me by now.
Neither one of us exactly has an impeccable record this game. I'm not sure if be so confident that everybody voting for you is scum.
If you're saying faust should have caught on then EFHW should have as well. Only she wasn't already tunneling the hell out of him.
My reads have been shit so farI'm sure I've missed questions but I'm on my phone and it's the best I can do. Frankly, EFHW's lunch probably isn't happening today which makes mean more sure I'm right. With (probably) three scum still around they can afford to spread out but NOBODY is biting on her lunch so it seems like there's town on the table and they're lining up there instead.Yes they are. But look where your scumreads are voting. Eddie voting for Joseph. Joseph is the only one voting for Debatepro. The town scum are lining up to lynch is me, but your scumreads aren't there.
If you were right about your scumreads, it would have been super easy for them to lynch me by now.
Neither one of us exactly has an impeccable record this game. I'm not sure if be so confident that everybody voting for you is scum.
But I believe faust is town
And I think we should lynch Debatepro, ari or maybe ss
If you're saying faust should have caught on then EFHW should have as well. Only she wasn't already tunneling the hell out of him.
She's in my top 3/4 list, the problem is he isn't on yours and was explicitly taken off.
I didn't defend DS, in fact I voted for him over youMy reads have been shit so farI'm sure I've missed questions but I'm on my phone and it's the best I can do. Frankly, EFHW's lunch probably isn't happening today which makes mean more sure I'm right. With (probably) three scum still around they can afford to spread out but NOBODY is biting on her lunch so it seems like there's town on the table and they're lining up there instead.Yes they are. But look where your scumreads are voting. Eddie voting for Joseph. Joseph is the only one voting for Debatepro. The town scum are lining up to lynch is me, but your scumreads aren't there.
If you were right about your scumreads, it would have been super easy for them to lynch me by now.
Neither one of us exactly has an impeccable record this game. I'm not sure if be so confident that everybody voting for you is scum.
But I believe faust is town
And I think we should lynch Debatepro, ari or maybe ss
Haven't you been claiming to be on the right side of history most of the game? I distinctly remember you saying something along the lines of, "Nobody's convinced me MiX was scummy," after he'd flipped. And you defended DS too, didn't you?
I didn't defend DS, in fact I voted for him over youMy reads have been shit so farI'm sure I've missed questions but I'm on my phone and it's the best I can do. Frankly, EFHW's lunch probably isn't happening today which makes mean more sure I'm right. With (probably) three scum still around they can afford to spread out but NOBODY is biting on her lunch so it seems like there's town on the table and they're lining up there instead.Yes they are. But look where your scumreads are voting. Eddie voting for Joseph. Joseph is the only one voting for Debatepro. The town scum are lining up to lynch is me, but your scumreads aren't there.
If you were right about your scumreads, it would have been super easy for them to lynch me by now.
Neither one of us exactly has an impeccable record this game. I'm not sure if be so confident that everybody voting for you is scum.
But I believe faust is town
And I think we should lynch Debatepro, ari or maybe ss
Haven't you been claiming to be on the right side of history most of the game? I distinctly remember you saying something along the lines of, "Nobody's convinced me MiX was scummy," after he'd flipped. And you defended DS too, didn't you?
Based on the fact I was sure that your interactions weren't town/town
Which was a load of crap with hindsight
Can you put that in a way that might actually convince someone?And actually, I wanted to ask: silver, Debate, could you summarize why you are voting for me?
If you're saying faust should have caught on then EFHW should have as well. Only she wasn't already tunneling the hell out of him.
She's in my top 3/4 list, the problem is he isn't on yours and was explicitly taken off.
Which I explained. And, like I said, I firmly believe he had his blinders on re: mail-mi. He went so far as to attack me for not voting for him, if his whole ploy was to lynch the cop he wouldn't have bothered pushing me because he would have seen that mail-mi copped me overnight.
If you're saying faust should have caught on then EFHW should have as well. Only she wasn't already tunneling the hell out of him.
She's in my top 3/4 list, the problem is he isn't on yours and was explicitly taken off.
Which I explained. And, like I said, I firmly believe he had his blinders on re: mail-mi. He went so far as to attack me for not voting for him, if his whole ploy was to lynch the cop he wouldn't have bothered pushing me because he would have seen that mail-mi copped me overnight.
Why can't he do that as scum? He's smart.
@faust - see anyone can do it.
Because it draws attention to why I wouldn't vote for mail-mi which makes it more likely other town would see which makes his mislynch impossible. I mean, I could have pushed mail-mi to claim, mail-mi could have claimed on his own, scum!faust pushing mail-mi was dangerous, town!faust pushing mail-mi was tunneling town. faust had ZERO reason as scum to push me to vote for mail-mi if he knew mail-mi was the cop because if he knew mail-mi was cop he knew I was his target N1.
I don't know how I can make this clearer and your insistence that I'm wrong is interesting.I'm proving a point on two levels. It's not helpful right? You don't have to feint, I am your biggest ally, which could be a double dunce hat for me if I am wrong.
Because it draws attention to why I wouldn't vote for mail-mi which makes it more likely other town would see which makes his mislynch impossible. I mean, I could have pushed mail-mi to claim, mail-mi could have claimed on his own, scum!faust pushing mail-mi was dangerous, town!faust pushing mail-mi was tunneling town. faust had ZERO reason as scum to push me to vote for mail-mi if he knew mail-mi was the cop because if he knew mail-mi was cop he knew I was his target N1.
I don't understand why scum.faust isn't capable of making this play, he is a wizard.QuoteI don't know how I can make this clearer and your insistence that I'm wrong is interesting.I'm proving a point on two levels. It's not helpful right? You don't have to feint, I am your biggest ally, which could be a double dunce hat for me if I am wrong.
2) Pretty sure that's shraeye (you know, the other IC) but good try. And yes, I'm giving myself IC status if that hasn't been made clear already.Touché , you’re both on opposite sides of the Faust vote.
I'll have to be on a computer to verify the timing of Ari's claim, sorry, just not going to trust you on that one. You're my second choice and I suppose Joseph would be my third. Faust's case isn't impacting me one way or the other.
faust had ZERO reason as scum to push me to vote for mail-mi if he knew mail-mi was the cop because if he knew mail-mi was cop he knew I was his target N1. I don't know how I can make this clearer and your insistence that I'm wrong is interesting.
I'll have to be on a computer to verify the timing of Ari's claim, sorry, just not going to trust you on that one. You're my second choice and I suppose Joseph would be my third. Faust's case isn't impacting me one way or the other.
What are you talking about? You can just go back and check.
I'm also almost certain that EFHW's claim happened before ari's claim. Ari's claim was at the end of day 2. EFHW's claim was somewhere within a day, and it wasn't today.
faust had ZERO reason as scum to push me to vote for mail-mi if he knew mail-mi was the cop because if he knew mail-mi was cop he knew I was his target N1. I don't know how I can make this clearer and your insistence that I'm wrong is interesting.
Why?
Oh, you have to be on a computer. I read too fast, as I often do, and read it as "I have to be a computer". That was weird.
faust had ZERO reason as scum to push me to vote for mail-mi if he knew mail-mi was the cop because if he knew mail-mi was cop he knew I was his target N1. I don't know how I can make this clearer and your insistence that I'm wrong is interesting.
Why?
Why what? mail-mi made those two facts obvious together.
And actually, I wanted to ask: silver, Debate, could you summarize why you are voting for me?
Faust hammer 45 minutes ahead of inteades after a cop claim could be skummy. Weird at the minimum.I said I will hammer then if you don't show up. You did show up.
Faust hammer 45 minutes ahead of inteades after a cop claim could be skummy. Weird at the minimum.I said I will hammer then if you don't show up. You did show up.
You know, this really really rubbed me the wrong way. I get faust sussed out that ds had a fakeclaim, but I feel like if some other player did this, people would immediately give them a billion scumpoints. I mean replace faust's name with debatepro's in that exchange above. I'd be toast. I consider this a kind of dark magic and I don't like it. I'm probably not moving my vote sans a super compelling case or directive from on high.
I'll be around a bit tomorrow, just to make sure I don't miss a directive or compelling case.
Joseph is not towny, no no no (he could still be town, but I don't think so). Faust looks even worse for abandoning logic to try to say so.
I revote: faust
Joseph is not towny, no no no (he could still be town, but I don't think so). Faust looks even worse for abandoning logic to try to say so.
I revote: faust
Faust hammer 45 minutes ahead of inteades after a cop claim could be skummy. Weird at the minimum.I said I will hammer then if you don't show up. You did show up.
You know, this really really rubbed me the wrong way. I get faust sussed out that ds had a fakeclaim, but I feel like if some other player did this, people would immediately give them a billion scumpoints. I mean replace faust's name with debatepro's in that exchange above. I'd be toast. I consider this a kind of dark magic and I don't like it. I'm probably not moving my vote sans a super compelling case or directive from on high.
I'll be around a bit tomorrow, just to make sure I don't miss a directive or compelling case.
I would have done the same thing as faust. That claim smelled REAL bad, I don't fault him for that and wouldn't fault anybody else either.
Okay, Ari refusing to listen or help or do anything is absurd. His blind support of a faust lynch is outrageous and infuriating.Hardly blind. There have been many arguments made against Faust’s defenses, and I have thought him scummy all game. Care to defend him? Feel free, but I’m going to be for real this tune.
shraeye, what do you think about it?
I’m going to be for realSorry Ms. Jackson, he is for real!!
The entire last sentence got awfully autocorrected. I’m going to BED for real this TIME. Sorry if that caused confusion.
Yeah, it's definitely not as helpful as engaging would be.
But I think it makes him townier though, I feel like he sees himself as a dead man walking. If ari is scum and faust is town, I think scumari (with townfaust) jummmpps at the chance that suspicion/lynch-potential is swinging off him and somewhere else. This ari is not re-energized scum excited for a mislynch.
mmmm, no-lynch is not a great idea today.
If we mislynch, then it's all win-or-lose tomorrow.
If we nolynch, it's still all win-or-lose tomorrow.
It's gonna be hard either way; best strategy is to lynch scum today :)
Is anybody else on the chopping block? Yeah, but not you, and not EFHW. DebatePro deserves to be safe too, but I'm only IC-saving you and EFHW today.
Nice. He want born yet, he won’t get the reference.I’m going to be for realSorry Ms. Jackson, he is for real!!
mmmm, no-lynch is not a great idea today.
If we mislynch, then it's all win-or-lose tomorrow.
If we nolynch, it's still all win-or-lose tomorrow.
It's gonna be hard either way; best strategy is to lynch scum today :)
Is anybody else on the chopping block? Yeah, but not you, and not EFHW. DebatePro deserves to be safe too, but I'm only IC-saving you and EFHW today.
As usual, I don't get your math. If we mislynch today we'll have two town dead tomorrow. If we no lynch today we only have one town dead tomorrow.
mmmm, no-lynch is not a great idea today.
If we mislynch, then it's all win-or-lose tomorrow.
If we nolynch, it's still all win-or-lose tomorrow.
It's gonna be hard either way; best strategy is to lynch scum today :)
Is anybody else on the chopping block? Yeah, but not you, and not EFHW. DebatePro deserves to be safe too, but I'm only IC-saving you and EFHW today.
As usual, I don't get your math. If we mislynch today we'll have two town dead tomorrow. If we no lynch today we only have one town dead tomorrow.
But then tomorrow's result is 5T v 3S or 4T v 3S. Both of them have similar outcomes. If any other mislynch happens (-2 town) then scum wins the endgame. The only meager benefit that 5T has is we can no-lynch one more time. Near the endgame, and without a chance of a doc-save or other shenanigans, it's not really worth it.
I'm not jumping to EFHW. Because that still is one believable claim.
Unhelpful how? By saying that EFHW's claim is super believable?
I assume Arishipshape is still off the table?
In that case it looks like Joseph, Silver, Debatepro, or me.
With the elimination of Faust per raerae and the elimination of EFHW by shraeye, so who are you people leaning towards? I would like to get a handle on his before it becomes too close to deadline.
Honestly any of those four other than myself could work for me, (obviously) with preference towards Joseph, (obviously).
But, you're right. I'm not putting down names or votes because (a) uncertainty is painful and (b) I didn't want to state my second-surest guess and have people go 'Yup, Yup, Yup' and pile on a la ari.
I've mentioned that Joseph is my other scumread. That's my backup plan. There are other lynches I would begrudgingly hammer, but none other that I'd actively pursue.
So you can link to exactly one post from me that you find scummy. Cool.Can you put that in a way that might actually convince someone?And actually, I wanted to ask: silver, Debate, could you summarize why you are voting for me?
I find your play in this game not helpful and how you play. This is illustrated in "non-town-aligned-dialog-preferencing" (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg789063;topicseen#msg789063). Reflecting is a repeating technique you use to bounce what someone says back at them, reversals are taking the data and drawing the opposite conclusion, and I find it not helpful. With a little training anyone can do it and in this game it's not helping.
Make a strong case for someone else. The case is so conditional and filled with caveats against EFHW that it doesn't even make her flinch, which i find suspect.
PPE: Raerae - oh this is perfect... one second.
Coming to think of it, it is very convenient for you to claim that EFHW is scum, because it also allows you to disregard her results on eddie and me. That's three people you can scumread who I suspect are all town.I don't claim that EFHW is scum.
Well you're wrong.Faust hammer 45 minutes ahead of inteades after a cop claim could be skummy. Weird at the minimum.I said I will hammer then if you don't show up. You did show up.
You know, this really really rubbed me the wrong way. I get faust sussed out that ds had a fakeclaim, but I feel like if some other player did this, people would immediately give them a billion scumpoints.
I also give raerae IC status.Bullshit, you are just too blinded by your confirmation bais. I have lots of experience with Joseph and I know that my case is good.
Faust, that is literally the most teeerrrrible defense of somebody I've read in this thread. That looks like you had an agenda(Joseph is town), went back and picked up random things Joseph has done, and them constructed weak narratives to explain why these posts are town. This looks like a C- research paper if I was grading generously.
I'm saying that I personally suspect Joseph is scum. But whether that opinion is right or wrong, one would be crazy to call Joseph's actions in this game "towny". So towny that they deserve a defense from a not-Joseph person.Uh, look at me, anyone who disagrees with me is crazy!
Yeah, it's definitely not as helpful as engaging would be.He said he would vote for me. But you're right, ari is probably town.
But I think it makes him townier though, I feel like he sees himself as a dead man walking. If ari is scum and faust is town, I think scumari (with townfaust) jummmpps at the chance that suspicion/lynch-potential is swinging off him and somewhere else. This ari is not re-energized scum excited for a mislynch.
Joseph is not towny, no no no (he could still be town, but I don't think so). Faust looks even worse for abandoning logic to try to say so.FFS things like this from the IC will lose us the game
I revote: faust
The theory is that because there's fewer town, should be easier to find a scum tomorrowmmmm, no-lynch is not a great idea today.
If we mislynch, then it's all win-or-lose tomorrow.
If we nolynch, it's still all win-or-lose tomorrow.
It's gonna be hard either way; best strategy is to lynch scum today :)
Is anybody else on the chopping block? Yeah, but not you, and not EFHW. DebatePro deserves to be safe too, but I'm only IC-saving you and EFHW today.
As usual, I don't get your math. If we mislynch today we'll have two town dead tomorrow. If we no lynch today we only have one town dead tomorrow.
I'm saying that I personally suspect Joseph is scum. But whether that opinion is right or wrong, one would be crazy to call Joseph's actions in this game "towny". So towny that they deserve a defense from a not-Joseph person.You don't suspect me as scum yet you want to lynch me?
But faust did give that defense. In a fashion that stunk to high heaven.
Good idea.mmmm, no-lynch is not a great idea today.
If we mislynch, then it's all win-or-lose tomorrow.
If we nolynch, it's still all win-or-lose tomorrow.
It's gonna be hard either way; best strategy is to lynch scum today :)
Is anybody else on the chopping block? Yeah, but not you, and not EFHW. DebatePro deserves to be safe too, but I'm only IC-saving you and EFHW today.
As usual, I don't get your math. If we mislynch today we'll have two town dead tomorrow. If we no lynch today we only have one town dead tomorrow.
But then tomorrow's result is 5T v 3S or 4T v 3S. Both of them have similar outcomes. If any other mislynch happens (-2 town) then scum wins the endgame. The only meager benefit that 5T has is we can no-lynch one more time. Near the endgame, and without a chance of a doc-save or other shenanigans, it's not really worth it.
Okay, so let's do not-faust. Surely my opinion has to count for something.
Coming to think of it, it is very convenient for you to claim that EFHW is scum, because it also allows you to disregard her results on eddie and me. That's three people you can scumread who I suspect are all town.I don't claim that EFHW is scum.
I assume Arishipshape is still off the table?
In that case it looks like Joseph, Silver, Debatepro, or me.
With the elimination of Faust per raerae and the elimination of EFHW by shraeye, so who are you people leaning towards? I would like to get a handle on his before it becomes too close to deadline.
Honestly any of those four other than myself could work for me, (obviously) with preference towards Joseph, (obviously).
Yes, as far as I'm concerned Ari is still off the table.
But I think it makes him townier though, I feel like he sees himself as a dead man walking. If ari is scum and faust is town, I think scumari (with townfaust) jummmpps at the chance that suspicion/lynch-potential is swinging off him and somewhere else. This ari is not re-energized scum excited for a mislynch.
I think we all care very much about mail-mi's result. I think EFHW's role is a red herring in this setup.Coming to think of it, it is very convenient for you to claim that EFHW is scum, because it also allows you to disregard her results on eddie and me. That's three people you can scumread who I suspect are all town.I don't claim that EFHW is scum.
Really? What's all of that pushing her lynch that I remember then?
But fine. Then give me some credit for the result. Why does no-one care about investigative results this game?
This reluctance from everyone wrt ariship is fairly maddening.You were making an argument from beauty on setup probability. There is a similar argument from beauty to make ari's role town rather than scum.
silver, who do you think that the scum team is if you suppose that I am town?
vote: arishipFinally a wagon that makes sense
With faust's latest posts, ari is now the scummiest player in the thread by a landslide. This can be done with only one of two ICs behind it.
Ari hasn't played very towny and they seem resigned to their fate that everyone knows that they're scumThis reluctance from everyone wrt ariship is fairly maddening.You were making an argument from beauty on setup probability. There is a similar argument from beauty to make ari's role town rather than scum.
I'm saying that I personally suspect Joseph is scum. But whether that opinion is right or wrong, one would be crazy to call Joseph's actions in this game "towny". So towny that they deserve a defense from a not-Joseph person.Scum!faust didn't need to make the Joseph case at all. And he doesn't say Joseph is pro town. To me his case sounds like he is scumhunting.
But faust did give that defense. In a fashion that stunk to high heaven.
Exactly. That was my point for town!faust as well. Glad there's now 3 people seeing thatI'm saying that I personally suspect Joseph is scum. But whether that opinion is right or wrong, one would be crazy to call Joseph's actions in this game "towny". So towny that they deserve a defense from a not-Joseph person.Scum!faust didn't need to make the Joseph case at all. And he doesn't say Joseph is pro town. To me his case sounds like he is scumhunting.
But faust did give that defense. In a fashion that stunk to high heaven.
Yeah, it's definitely not as helpful as engaging would be.Voting with the IC is a tried and true scum tactic.
But I think it makes him townier though, I feel like he sees himself as a dead man walking. If ari is scum and faust is town, I think scumari (with townfaust) jummmpps at the chance that suspicion/lynch-potential is swinging off him and somewhere else. This ari is not re-energized scum excited for a mislynch.
EFHW, what are your thoughts on UncleEurope?Towny
I don't think ari is the best shot, but he's a liability as town and his flip gives additional setup info to figure out the EFHW situation, so it's not the worst thing ever and much better than me or Joseph.Because he's been right about reads on the town people who have been lynched? Read on Mix (#449 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg785065#msg785065)) && pleading with people to jump off DS (1496 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg787678#msg787678)) and join him on Ari wagon.
I still don't know why people do not want to vote silver.
You know who has a good chance of being right about people because they know everyone's alignment?I don't think ari is the best shot, but he's a liability as town and his flip gives additional setup info to figure out the EFHW situation, so it's not the worst thing ever and much better than me or Joseph.Because he's been right about reads on the town people who have been lynched? Read on Mix (#449 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg785065#msg785065)) && pleading with people to jump off DS (1496 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg787678#msg787678)) and join him on Ari wagon.
I still don't know why people do not want to vote silver.
He is also right about me! So as a new player, these are probably the most convincing pieces of evidence that one can go off of in a game without a single scum lynched.
EFHW, what are your thoughts on UncleEurope?Towny
You know who has a good chance of being right about people because they know everyone's alignment?I don't think ari is the best shot, but he's a liability as town and his flip gives additional setup info to figure out the EFHW situation, so it's not the worst thing ever and much better than me or Joseph.Because he's been right about reads on the town people who have been lynched? Read on Mix (#449 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg785065#msg785065)) && pleading with people to jump off DS (1496 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg787678#msg787678)) and join him on Ari wagon.
I still don't know why people do not want to vote silver.
He is also right about me! So as a new player, these are probably the most convincing pieces of evidence that one can go off of in a game without a single scum lynched.
(Reversal) So we're at the point in the game where presenting a case and being right about it makes you scum.No, I never said him being right makes him scummy, but it's easy to be right as scum. D1 we had no wagons on scum, so scum could easily afford to be right about stuff. Correct townreads don't cost scum much of anything. A correct scumread would be something else, but we have no evidence of this.
DS is a decent player. SS was skeptical of DS's case against EFHW and he even voted for DS. I don't think scum would push people to lynch a "lesser player", especially sense he already had plenty of cover to vote for DS.So silver is townie for reading DatSwan correctly, and he is also townie for misreading him? Great. silver didn't push anyone, it was clear that DatSwan would be lynch, he just did not want to take heat for that lynch.
I get a question now. For both Ari, Joseph, and EFHW what do we learn if we lynch them and the end up town or scum? What conclusions should we draw about them and their partners? Ill make you a worksheet for your answers.
DS is a decent player. SS was skeptical of DS's case against EFHW and he even voted for DS. I don't think scum would push people to lynch a "lesser player", especially sense he already had plenty of cover to vote for DS.So silver is townie for reading DatSwan correctly, and he is also townie for misreading him? Great. silver didn't push anyone, it was clear that DatSwan would be lynch, he just did not want to take heat for that lynch.
I get a question now. For both Ari, Joseph, and EFHW what do we learn if we lynch them and the end up town or scum? What conclusions should we draw about them and their partners? Ill make you a worksheet for your answers.
Ari (Scum): EFHW is town. You are probably town. Most likely partners, in that order: Eddie, silver, you, Joseph.
Ari (Town): EFHW looks worse. silver looks even worse. Eddie seems townie. Scum team: you, silver, EFHW with an outside chance of Eddie replacing EFHW.
Joseph(Scum): Would require an evaluation of that wagon. ari is probably townier. silver seems like a good partner option. Partner in order of likelihood: silver, Eddie, you, EFHW, ari. Also I will probably be lynched next.
Joseph(Town): Nothing that we don't already know. I guess depending on who the counter-wagon is it may be possible to draw some conclusions.
EFHW(Scum): ari is town. If EFHW flips scum Motion Detector, then Eddie is town. silver seems townier. Most likely partners: you, Eddie (if EFHW does not flip MD), Joseph, silver, Eddie (if EFHW flips MD)
EFHW(Town): Noone except me and raerae really suspected EFHW today, so I would have to see how this lynch happened. Scum team is silver, you, Eddie.
I don't quite get what you are saying? Sure scum!silver prefers a DatSwan mislynch over an ari mislynch. But he also prefers a lynch that is happening without him over one that is happening with him. You have to explain more how that is the same "cover" because I don't get it.DS is a decent player. SS was skeptical of DS's case against EFHW and he even voted for DS. I don't think scum would push people to lynch a "lesser player", especially sense he already had plenty of cover to vote for DS.So silver is townie for reading DatSwan correctly, and he is also townie for misreading him? Great. silver didn't push anyone, it was clear that DatSwan would be lynch, he just did not want to take heat for that lynch.
It's an even/if position. If you are right that SS is scum, there is no reason to stay on Ari. DS is a better player. His reason for voting for DS "as scum" is the same as yours "as town", fearful people would believe the claim and jump off the wagon. I don't quite understand why the logic covers you but not him. He can use the same cover you used or are using.
Well I said other stuff also, but yes I believe silver is scum in a lot of scenarios, hence my voting for him.I get a question now. For both Ari, Joseph, and EFHW what do we learn if we lynch them and the end up town or scum? What conclusions should we draw about them and their partners? Ill make you a worksheet for your answers.
Ari (Scum): EFHW is town. You are probably town. Most likely partners, in that order: Eddie, silver, you, Joseph.
Ari (Town): EFHW looks worse. silver looks even worse. Eddie seems townie. Scum team: you, silver, EFHW with an outside chance of Eddie replacing EFHW.
Joseph(Scum): Would require an evaluation of that wagon. ari is probably townier. silver seems like a good partner option. Partner in order of likelihood: silver, Eddie, you, EFHW, ari. Also I will probably be lynched next.
Joseph(Town): Nothing that we don't already know. I guess depending on who the counter-wagon is it may be possible to draw some conclusions.
EFHW(Scum): ari is town. If EFHW flips scum Motion Detector, then Eddie is town. silver seems townier. Most likely partners: you, Eddie (if EFHW does not flip MD), Joseph, silver, Eddie (if EFHW flips MD)
EFHW(Town): Noone except me and raerae really suspected EFHW today, so I would have to see how this lynch happened. Scum team is silver, you, Eddie.
In summary, SS is likely scum in all but EFHW.Scum.No.MD case. Also perhaps in Joseph(Town) case which will require further analysis.
From my perspective, i'm basically dead. If i'm not lynched today, i'm lynched tomorrow. My role, which would have been an ace in the hole, is now worthless due to dead neap. Everybody thinks i'm scum for 2 main mistakes I have made: Expressing "fake" emotion, and revealing my role at a bad time, both of which I will not do again, so i'll participate a lot more in the next forum mafia game I play at least. For now, this game feels sunk to me, as I kant escape the shadows of my idiotic mistakes. I have provided my reads, and find it difficult to sift through the muck of these last few days. I don't have much good to offer town at this point.
I will be here for the deadline. I find right before the deadline is more my style anyways, with everyone being online and everyone being aggressive. IMHO right before the deadline is the best time to see peoples townieness or scummyness, because of the real pressure. That is when I will do my quality scumhunting.
From my perspective, i'm basically dead. If i'm not lynched today, i'm lynched tomorrow. My role, which would have been an ace in the hole, is now worthless due to dead neap. Everybody thinks i'm scum for 2 main mistakes I have made: Expressing "fake" emotion, and revealing my role at a bad time, both of which I will not do again, so i'll participate a lot more in the next forum mafia game I play at least. For now, this game feels sunk to me, as I kant escape the shadows of my idiotic mistakes. I have provided my reads, and find it difficult to sift through the muck of these last few days. I don't have much good to offer town at this point.If faust is scum, i'm fine with kamikazing him. He seems quite dominant on the board right now.
I will be here for the deadline. I find right before the deadline is more my style anyways, with everyone being online and everyone being aggressive. IMHO right before the deadline is the best time to see peoples townieness or scummyness, because of the real pressure. That is when I will do my quality scumhunting.
Vote EFHW with me then, if she flips scum you're safe tomorrow. If you vote faust you're absolutely tomorrow's lunch.
Well crud. I typed a reply but it doesn't seem to have worked. My reply went something like this:From my perspective, i'm basically dead. If i'm not lynched today, i'm lynched tomorrow. My role, which would have been an ace in the hole, is now worthless due to dead neap. Everybody thinks i'm scum for 2 main mistakes I have made: Expressing "fake" emotion, and revealing my role at a bad time, both of which I will not do again, so i'll participate a lot more in the next forum mafia game I play at least. For now, this game feels sunk to me, as I kant escape the shadows of my idiotic mistakes. I have provided my reads, and find it difficult to sift through the muck of these last few days. I don't have much good to offer town at this point.If faust is scum, i'm fine with kamikazing him. He seems quite dominant on the board right now.
I will be here for the deadline. I find right before the deadline is more my style anyways, with everyone being online and everyone being aggressive. IMHO right before the deadline is the best time to see peoples townieness or scummyness, because of the real pressure. That is when I will do my quality scumhunting.
Vote EFHW with me then, if she flips scum you're safe tomorrow. If you vote faust you're absolutely tomorrow's lunch.
Vote EFHW with me then, if she flips scum you're safe tomorrow. If you vote faust you're absolutely tomorrow's lunch.So if one votes for faust and EFHW flips town, then they targeted in d4. I don't understand, wouldn't one have been at least correct that they believed she was town?
Vote EFHW with me then, if she flips scum you're safe tomorrow. If you vote faust you're absolutely tomorrow's lunch.So if one votes for faust and EFHW flips town, then they targeted in d4. I don't understand, wouldn't one have been at least correct that they believed she was town?
Let's say EFHW and faust are scum. I'd rather we lynch Faust and I die too than lynch EFHW and live. Faust has been one of if not the most influential players in this game, and assuming he's scum, he is my top priority. Even at cost to me.Vote EFHW with me then, if she flips scum you're safe tomorrow. If you vote faust you're absolutely tomorrow's lunch.So if one votes for faust and EFHW flips town, then they targeted in d4. I don't understand, wouldn't one have been at least correct that they believed she was town?
It isn't a threat it's just a fact. Regardless of what faust flips, Ari will be the lunch tomorrow. If faust is town we'll say, "Oh, Ari is so scummy! Look at all the scum all game long!" And if faust is scum we'll say, "Oh Ari must have been busing!" Ari's walking dead and EFHW's scum flip is the only thing that saves him.
Nope, you and EFHW can't both be town. It's between you two. You want to lunch we EFHW and live to tomorrow or do you want to die today?I must have missed something. I'll take your word for it, but if someone proves this statement otherwise I'll unvote.
Nope, you and EFHW can't both be town. It's between you two. You want to lunch we EFHW and live to tomorrow or do you want to die today?They can both be town.
Disagree. Seems way too overpowered to me.Nope, you and EFHW can't both be town. It's between you two. You want to lunch we EFHW and live to tomorrow or do you want to die today?They can both be town.
?Disagree. Seems way too overpowered to me.Nope, you and EFHW can't both be town. It's between you two. You want to lunch we EFHW and live to tomorrow or do you want to die today?They can both be town.
?Disagree. Seems way too overpowered to me.Nope, you and EFHW can't both be town. It's between you two. You want to lunch we EFHW and live to tomorrow or do you want to die today?They can both be town.
ari's role is actually worse for town if ari is town than if ari is scum...
Well sorry but you are not making any sense whatsoever. How does ari's role help town??Disagree. Seems way too overpowered to me.Nope, you and EFHW can't both be town. It's between you two. You want to lunch we EFHW and live to tomorrow or do you want to die today?They can both be town.
ari's role is actually worse for town if ari is town than if ari is scum...
I don't see it that way.
EFHW(Scum): ari is town. If EFHW flips scum Motion Detector, then Eddie is town. silver seems townier. Most likely partners: you, Eddie (if EFHW does not flip MD), Joseph, silver, Eddie (if EFHW flips MD)
EFHW(Town): Noone except me and raerae really suspected EFHW today, so I would have to see how this lynch happened. Scum team is silver, you, Eddie.
I guess? It's really more based on how EFHW behaved in regards to you. I find it unlikely that she would claim a result on a scumpartner only to go on bussing him.EFHW(Scum): ari is town. If EFHW flips scum Motion Detector, then Eddie is town. silver seems townier. Most likely partners: you, Eddie (if EFHW does not flip MD), Joseph, silver, Eddie (if EFHW flips MD)
EFHW(Town): Noone except me and raerae really suspected EFHW today, so I would have to see how this lynch happened. Scum team is silver, you, Eddie.
So you think that I wouldn't be bold enough to defend scumpartner!EFHW with this argument but would be willing to take town!EFHW out of the already small lynch pool?
Why are you voting for silver? You got the same result on him as you did on Eddie.EFHW, what are your thoughts on UncleEurope?Towny
This is not true; don't strongarm him into voting EFHWVote EFHW with me then, if she flips scum you're safe tomorrow. If you vote faust you're absolutely tomorrow's lunch.So if one votes for faust and EFHW flips town, then they targeted in d4. I don't understand, wouldn't one have been at least correct that they believed she was town?
It isn't a threat it's just a fact. Regardless of what faust flips, Ari will be the lunch tomorrow. If faust is town we'll say, "Oh, Ari is so scummy! Look at all the scum all game long!" And if faust is scum we'll say, "Oh Ari must have been busing!" Ari's walking dead and EFHW's scum flip is the only thing that saves him.
I agree.?Disagree. Seems way too overpowered to me.Nope, you and EFHW can't both be town. It's between you two. You want to lunch we EFHW and live to tomorrow or do you want to die today?They can both be town.
ari's role is actually worse for town if ari is town than if ari is scum...
Well sorry but you are not making any sense whatsoever. How does ari's role help town??Disagree. Seems way too overpowered to me.Nope, you and EFHW can't both be town. It's between you two. You want to lunch we EFHW and live to tomorrow or do you want to die today?They can both be town.
ari's role is actually worse for town if ari is town than if ari is scum...
I don't see it that way.
raerae, EFHW is NOT our lynch today.
We should find the scum in
{Joseph, silver, Uncle, ari}
I don't think either of us want ari....so why did Joseph feel wrong?
This is not true; don't strongarm him into voting EFHWVote EFHW with me then, if she flips scum you're safe tomorrow. If you vote faust you're absolutely tomorrow's lunch.So if one votes for faust and EFHW flips town, then they targeted in d4. I don't understand, wouldn't one have been at least correct that they believed she was town?
It isn't a threat it's just a fact. Regardless of what faust flips, Ari will be the lunch tomorrow. If faust is town we'll say, "Oh, Ari is so scummy! Look at all the scum all game long!" And if faust is scum we'll say, "Oh Ari must have been busing!" Ari's walking dead and EFHW's scum flip is the only thing that saves him.
raerae, EFHW is NOT our lynch today.
We should find the scum in
{Joseph, silver, Uncle, ari}
I don't think either of us want ari....so why did Joseph feel wrong?
That's cold; I'm not leading people to a lynch today, just steering them away from EFHW.
I've been right about every lynch I've shut down so far. #notmailmi, #raeraeistown
I followed you to MiX and DS, sorry if I'm going to trust my own gut on this one.
I guess? It's really more based on how EFHW behaved in regards to you. I find it unlikely that she would claim a result on a scumpartner only to go on bussing him.EFHW(Scum): ari is town. If EFHW flips scum Motion Detector, then Eddie is town. silver seems townier. Most likely partners: you, Eddie (if EFHW does not flip MD), Joseph, silver, Eddie (if EFHW flips MD)
EFHW(Town): Noone except me and raerae really suspected EFHW today, so I would have to see how this lynch happened. Scum team is silver, you, Eddie.
So you think that I wouldn't be bold enough to defend scumpartner!EFHW with this argument but would be willing to take town!EFHW out of the already small lynch pool?
I'll vote for him tomorrow if he votes faust and literally everybody else has him marked as scum. You really going to tell me that lunch won't go through in two seconds flat??You're saying that you will vote for ari next no matter what faust flips, if ari votes for faust.
raerae, EFHW is NOT our lynch today.
We should find the scum in
{Joseph, silver, Uncle, ari}
I don't think either of us want ari....so why did Joseph feel wrong?
That's cold; I'm not leading people to a lynch today, just steering them away from EFHW.
I've been right about every lynch I've shut down so far. #notmailmi, #raeraeistown
I followed you to MiX and DS, sorry if I'm going to trust my own gut on this one.
Why are you voting for silver? You got the same result on him as you did on Eddie.EFHW, what are your thoughts on UncleEurope?Towny
@SS: What do you think about this fact?
If we are lynching ari tomorrow anyway, then we should definitely definitely lynch him today instead. His flip will be the most informative.
I'll vote for him tomorrow if he votes faust and literally everybody else has him marked as scum. You really going to tell me that lunch won't go through in two seconds flat??You're saying that you will vote for ari next no matter what faust flips, if ari votes for faust.
How does ari voting for EFHW change your opinion of ari?
raerae, EFHW is NOT our lynch today.
We should find the scum in
{Joseph, silver, Uncle, ari}
I don't think either of us want ari....so why did Joseph feel wrong?
That's cold; I'm not leading people to a lynch today, just steering them away from EFHW.
I've been right about every lynch I've shut down so far. #notmailmi, #raeraeistown
I followed you to MiX and DS, sorry if I'm going to trust my own gut on this one.
And wrong about every lunch you've spearheaded. I'm not following you today because I disagree with your assessment, you'll have to do this without me if you insist on pushing faust. I don't like Joseph either, I was eager to have the day done and was fine with it last night but it doesn't make sense this morning.
raerae, EFHW is NOT our lynch today.
We should find the scum in
{Joseph, silver, Uncle, ari}
I don't think either of us want ari....so why did Joseph feel wrong?
It's frustrating, I mean I've explained that the result absolutely must lower the chance of me being scum from EFHW's PoV. I don't quite get it, her only reason was that faust is more active than me.@SS: What do you think about this fact?Why are you voting for silver? You got the same result on him as you did on Eddie.EFHW, what are your thoughts on UncleEurope?Towny
If we are lynching ari tomorrow anyway, then we should definitely definitely lynch him today instead. His flip will be the most informative.
I agree.
But i don't see tomorrow as auto-ari. I don't know why raerae says ari is auto tomorrow (if faust is today), but not to vote ari tomorrow.
What information (that is NOT alignment) does us lynching faust give her that turns ari from a pass into an auto-lynch????
That don't make sense raerae
I realize I am being somewhat inconsistent here. I don't have a logical reason, but it is what feels right.EFHW, what are your thoughts on UncleEurope?Towny
Why are you voting for silver? You got the same result on him as you did on Eddie.
Think about our scumreads earlier! EVERYBODY had Ari as their top read, in what world do you think he survives tomorrow??An easy one is faust isn't the nk.
In the world where, like you and I both did, townies sayIndistinguishable from scum bussing.
"my, that sure was some strong desire around the table to vote ari...kinda makes me feel like it's a mislynch"
Think about our scumreads earlier! EVERYBODY had Ari as their top read, in what world do you think he survives tomorrow??An easy one is faust isn't the nk.
That's not true.In the world where, like you and I both did, townies sayIndistinguishable from scum bussing.
"my, that sure was some strong desire around the table to vote ari...kinda makes me feel like it's a mislynch"
What details are you noticing that lead you to think mislynch rather than bussing?That's not true.In the world where, like you and I both did, townies sayIndistinguishable from scum bussing.
"my, that sure was some strong desire around the table to vote ari...kinda makes me feel like it's a mislynch"
It's either a mislynch or scum bussing. But they aren't indistinguishable. That's literally the basis of mafia games; intentions color the details; town tries to figure out which is which.
I'll vote for him tomorrow if he votes faust and literally everybody else has him marked as scum. You really going to tell me that lunch won't go through in two seconds flat??You're saying that you will vote for ari next no matter what faust flips, if ari votes for faust.
How does ari voting for EFHW change your opinion of ari?
Because I have a stronger scumread on her than him. If she flips town then I'd lunch him but I don't think that will happen. And I can't see a world where they're all (EFHW, mail-mi, and Ari) town. I know it's TECHNICALLY possible, as so many people are keen to point out, but I don't think it's likely.
Still, I'd drop a lot of hammers today; but I'm not dropping EFHWs
I'll vote for him tomorrow if he votes faust and literally everybody else has him marked as scum. You really going to tell me that lunch won't go through in two seconds flat??You're saying that you will vote for ari next no matter what faust flips, if ari votes for faust.
How does ari voting for EFHW change your opinion of ari?
Because I have a stronger scumread on her than him. If she flips town then I'd lunch him but I don't think that will happen. And I can't see a world where they're all (EFHW, mail-mi, and Ari) town. I know it's TECHNICALLY possible, as so many people are keen to point out, but I don't think it's likely.
I think that's not only technically possible but the most likely option looking only at setup stuff...
but don't listen to me if it makes you vote ari today.
That is a valid point to raise, but really it just says EFHW is unlikely to be telling the truth regardless of what ari is.I'll vote for him tomorrow if he votes faust and literally everybody else has him marked as scum. You really going to tell me that lunch won't go through in two seconds flat??You're saying that you will vote for ari next no matter what faust flips, if ari votes for faust.
How does ari voting for EFHW change your opinion of ari?
Because I have a stronger scumread on her than him. If she flips town then I'd lunch him but I don't think that will happen. And I can't see a world where they're all (EFHW, mail-mi, and Ari) town. I know it's TECHNICALLY possible, as so many people are keen to point out, but I don't think it's likely.
I think that's not only technically possible but the most likely option looking only at setup stuff...
but don't listen to me if it makes you vote ari today.
So we have Mason, Mason, Cop, Cop Enabler, AND Motion Detector? Two investigative roles and two ICs with night chat? That seems insane to me but I guess that's the frustration and the fun of a closed set-up, right?
The cop Enabler weakens the cop; motion detector can be a detrimental role, especially because it appears there is one NK (possibly ninja) and one mail-mi tracking. So EFHW was likely to get misinformation/out the stronger investigative role.Also every PR added weakens the Neapolitan, so the Enabler really weakens it twofold.
I think we should vote together.
I said not EFHW, you said not faust.
One of us is listening to the other.
{Joseph, silver, Uncle, ari}Well from this list I am definitely staying on silver. I would also vote both ari and Eddie to prevent a Joseph lynch.
yeah; that's literally why I'm off faust.
Why are you still on EFHW?
I'm not saying I know something you don't. I'm saying that it's self-defeating to pretend we couldn't possibly try to figure out if it is bussing or mislynch.What I'm saying is that it is currently indistinguishable.
I think faust is scum; I'm not convinced by your argument that he's town. But I've dropped it.
Why are you not seeing how confusing/frustrating it is that you are calling me out for not ranking your opinion next to mine??
How's silver? Can we both go there?
He's faded in and out of my scummy list; I see scummy actions, but emotional pleas that get to me. Not as strongly town-feeling as DebatePro's, but that's what keeps sending silver back towards neutral.
The end-of-day where he oopsie-hammered ari still stands in my mind.
How's silver? Can we both go there?
He's faded in and out of my scummy list; I see scummy actions, but emotional pleas that get to me. Not as strongly town-feeling as DebatePro's, but that's what keeps sending silver back towards neutral.
The end-of-day where he oopsie-hammered ari still stands in my mind.
Less a specific instance; more an accumulated tone. I don't have quotes, just my feelings right now.How's silver? Can we both go there?
He's faded in and out of my scummy list; I see scummy actions, but emotional pleas that get to me. Not as strongly town-feeling as DebatePro's, but that's what keeps sending silver back towards neutral.
The end-of-day where he oopsie-hammered ari still stands in my mind.
What emotional pleas? I think I've played a rather clean game without trying to emotionally manipulate someone.
You giving me scumpoints for the inattention makes absolutely no sense and has never made sense. You have never given a single reason why that would be more likely to come from scum.
The inattention felt very fake.
Ok, so the people we won't do:
faust (you)
EFHW (me)
People we don't like
silver (you)
joseph (you....but why?)
Debate (me)
So is it back to ari, or Uncle by POE?
raerae,
at this point you are saying faust is towny, you don't like ari or silver or joseph.
That means you have literally narrowed down to a full scumteam of
DebatePro, EFHW, Uncle.
So is it DebatePro or Uncle you want me on?
vote: EFHW
I'll post the multi-hammer again ~5 minutes before deadline.
raerae,
at this point you are saying faust is towny, you don't like ari or silver or joseph.
That means you have literally narrowed down to a full scumteam of
DebatePro, EFHW, Uncle.
So is it DebatePro or Uncle you want me on?
Uncle won't go through, my memory says debate won't either so this is your call.
I don't know.
Day3 had been a weird day.
We all started out saying ari was scum so have backed off, claims led us nowhere solid, I tried to coalesce people over the weekend which didn't work.
Pushed for faust yesterday which didn't take. Thought we had decided on Joseph instead.
Now it's 1.5 hours to deadline, votes are all over the place, not everyone is around, people are giving me shit about having been wrong before and either threatening to pin the next mislynch on me as well, or to refuse to listen to me since I've been mislynchy.
Fine. Mafia is hard. I thought I knew stuff, but I keep waffling back and forth on everyone. The only things I haven't waffled on others are staunchly against. The drama is overwhelming.
If you lynch me, then shraeye dies tonight. If you don't lynch me, I die tonight and Shraeye lives on.I doubt it.
Vote: Joseph
I'm risk averse, I think a mislynch here is the most informative.
Vote: Joseph
I'm risk averse, I think a mislynch here is the most informative.
Or raerae, I guess.If you lynch me, then shraeye dies tonight. If you don't lynch me, I die tonight and Shraeye lives on.I doubt it.
Vote: Joseph
I'm risk averse, I think a mislynch here is the most informative.
MORE INFORMATIVE THAN HITTING SCUM? WHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAATTTTT????????
I am still interested in dropping whatever hammer. It's honestly fine.
I think lynching silver is a risk but it's time to take that risk. If he is scum, he is the Myrdraal (Wheel of Time reference there).
Yes, I know. I heard you the first few times. I can't change who I investigated.I think lynching silver is a risk but it's time to take that risk. If he is scum, he is the Myrdraal (Wheel of Time reference there).
I've pointed this out before, but I'll do it again: your investigative result is useless if it doesn't affect your vote. If you vote for me with an innocent result, you would vote for me with either result, hence it didn't affect your vote.
I heard you the first few times.
Deadline is in an hour and 40 minutes right? I have to mop the floors at my place, but I'll be on after.Okay I'll claim then. I'm a one shot cop. And ari is scum
PPE:2 Joseph claimed. Woah.
You sure you're not 2-shot?Deadline is in an hour and 40 minutes right? I have to mop the floors at my place, but I'll be on after.Okay I'll claim then. I'm a one shot cop. And ari is scum
PPE:2 Joseph claimed. Woah.
Vote: DebateproGo vote silver.
They literally want a no lynch, so scummy
With your vote, we can get this lynch.Vote: DebateproGo vote silver.
They literally want a no lynch, so scummy
I think Eddie is my next choice, but there's no votes on him and a bunch on silver.Not that I see in my count.
I thought raerae and EFHW were voting there. Guess I should wait for the vote count.I think Eddie is my next choice, but there's no votes on him and a bunch on silver.Not that I see in my count.
See, now I'm feeling like I'm playing clean and you're not. We already know you want to lynch me, repeatedly emphasizing it is a pretty blatant attempt of building psychological pressure.With your vote, we can get this lynch.Vote: DebateproGo vote silver.
They literally want a no lynch, so scummy
Something something morality is the first casualty of war.See, now I'm feeling like I'm playing clean and you're not. We already know you want to lynch me, repeatedly emphasizing it is a pretty blatant attempt of building psychological pressure.With your vote, we can get this lynch.Vote: DebateproGo vote silver.
They literally want a no lynch, so scummy
Deadline is in an hour and 40 minutes right? I have to mop the floors at my place, but I'll be on after.Okay I'll claim then. I'm a one shot cop. And ari is scum
PPE:2 Joseph claimed. Woah.
It's still a joke.Deadline is in an hour and 40 minutes right? I have to mop the floors at my place, but I'll be on after.Okay I'll claim then. I'm a one shot cop. And ari is scum
PPE:2 Joseph claimed. Woah.
goooooodddddd dammnit!!!
Fine I'm coming out.
I'm a one shot bulletproof D4 IC
This is stupid.Faust's truest words this game.
I believe that puts shraeye's vote puts joseph at L1.Shraeye unvoted though, right?
Joseph2302 (4): silverspawn, debatepro, raerae, shraeye,
@ari - Don't do it right now bc it's the hammer, but I want to you consider voting for Joseph. If it's a mislynch and he flips town we can trust faust. If he is scum, well the answer is obvious.
(https://media2.giphy.com/media/XsUtdIeJ0MWMo/source.gif)I believe that puts shraeye's vote puts joseph at L1: Joseph2302 (4): silverspawn, debatepro, raerae, shraeye,Shraeye unvoted though, right?
@ari - Don't do it right now bc it's the hammer, but I want to you consider voting for Joseph. If it's a mislynch and he flips town we can trust faust. If he is scum, well the answer is obvious.
People have played before: What happens if an unvote come through before the lynch is confirmed?Lynch is irrevocable.
What the heck joseph? Why would you claim twice? What actually are you? If you got a guilty on me, why wouldn't you say it immediately? If you were BP, how the heck is that considered fair?He's also the sk, remember?
Vote: Joseph
Oh yea...What the heck joseph? Why would you claim twice? What actually are you? If you got a guilty on me, why wouldn't you say it immediately? If you were BP, how the heck is that considered fair?He's also the sk, remember?
Vote: Joseph
People have played before: What happens if an unvote come through before the lynch is confirmed?Lynch is irrevocable.
(https://media2.giphy.com/media/XsUtdIeJ0MWMo/source.gif)I believe that puts shraeye's vote puts joseph at L1: Joseph2302 (4): silverspawn, debatepro, raerae, shraeye,Shraeye unvoted though, right?
@ari - Don't do it right now bc it's the hammer, but I want to you consider voting for Joseph. If it's a mislynch and he flips town we can trust faust. If he is scum, well the answer is obvious.
wait, is deadline now, or in 1 hour?
unvote
DoneVote: DebateproGo vote silver.
They literally want a no lynch, so scummy
I believe that puts shraeye's vote puts joseph at L1: Joseph2302 (4): silverspawn, debatepro, raerae, shraeye,Shraeye unvoted though, right?
@ari - Don't do it right now bc it's the hammer, but I want to you consider voting for Joseph. If it's a mislynch and he flips town we can trust faust. If he is scum, well the answer is obvious.wait, is deadline now, or in 1 hour?
unvote
Soooo... Is Joseph dead?I believe that puts shraeye's vote puts joseph at L1: Joseph2302 (4): silverspawn, debatepro, raerae, shraeye,Shraeye unvoted though, right?
@ari - Don't do it right now bc it's the hammer, but I want to you consider voting for Joseph. If it's a mislynch and he flips town we can trust faust. If he is scum, well the answer is obvious.wait, is deadline now, or in 1 hour?
unvote
Shraeye votes lowercase joseph in #2263 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg789656#msg789656). If it counts, that takes him to L1. The very next post less than 1 minute later is your vote for joseph #2264 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg789658#msg789658). Shraeye's unvote happens 2 minutes later in #2266 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg789660#msg789660).
Told you.
Told you.
Wow, wildly helpful, feel better now?
Everybody game for an EFHW vote now?
Told you.
Joseph(Town): Nothing that we don't already know. I guess depending on who the counter-wagon is it may be possible to draw some conclusions.
Told you.Yes you did.
So maybe we should go with Debatepro at this point. Train wreck is right.Told you.Yes you did.
My survival strongly suggests ninja, plus the hope that I'll get lynched. silver made a big deal out of my "innocent " result on him. That has a ninja!scum feel to it.
They want me to give innocent results and aren't worried about being caught. Without ninja, I could happen upon the nk doer, so they would kill me to prevent me from reporting my result.My survival strongly suggests ninja, plus the hope that I'll get lynched. silver made a big deal out of my "innocent " result on him. That has a ninja!scum feel to it.
How does Ninja explain your survival?
My survival strongly suggests ninja, plus the hope that I'll get lynched. silver made a big deal out of my "innocent " result on him. That has a ninja!scum feel to it.
FYI to Eddie, if we have three scum and you and ari are both town ...
They want me to give innocent results and aren't worried about being caught. Without ninja, I could happen upon the nk doer, so they would kill me to prevent me from reporting my result.My survival strongly suggests ninja, plus the hope that I'll get lynched. silver made a big deal out of my "innocent " result on him. That has a ninja!scum feel to it.
How does Ninja explain your survival?
So sarcastic! I tried to choose the person they would feel was the safest to do the nk. Someone I would be least likely to target.They want me to give innocent results and aren't worried about being caught. Without ninja, I could happen upon the nk doer, so they would kill me to prevent me from reporting my result.My survival strongly suggests ninja, plus the hope that I'll get lynched. silver made a big deal out of my "innocent " result on him. That has a ninja!scum feel to it.
How does Ninja explain your survival?
Why go after uncle again? Why not silver, you know, the guy you think (thought?) is scum?
So sarcastic! I tried to choose the person they would feel was the safest to do the nk. Someone I would be least likely to target.They want me to give innocent results and aren't worried about being caught. Without ninja, I could happen upon the nk doer, so they would kill me to prevent me from reporting my result.My survival strongly suggests ninja, plus the hope that I'll get lynched. silver made a big deal out of my "innocent " result on him. That has a ninja!scum feel to it.
How does Ninja explain your survival?
Why go after uncle again? Why not silver, you know, the guy you think (thought?) is scum?
Really disagree with silver that without ninja they would still leave me alive.
Much better, thanks.Told you.
Wow, wildly helpful, feel better now?
Everybody game for an EFHW vote now?No. The way I see it, at most one of ari/EFHW is scum. EFHW is off the terrible Jopseh wagon, while ari derphammered.
I'm decided. Vote: silverFYI to Eddie, if we have three scum and you and ari are both town ...
Unlikely. But it is true that we should not vote before deciding whom to lynch.
"Hypothetical" question to faust: if you were scum, whom would you have shot last night and why?Silly question really. But if EFHW was also scum, raerae, and if not, shraeye. Reasons should be obvious.
so theoretically, if none of us gets quickhammered sometime soon, it must be town vs scum. So you should think about, have a look at all the evidence out there, and decide which of us is more likely to be lying.So why would scum!me try to defend Joseph?
practically, coordinating a quick hammer is difficult, so this is not really a hard guarantee. but given the PoE we have here I have very little doubt that faust is scum, so we may aswell assume it.
"Hypothetical" question to faust: if you were scum, whom would you have shot last night and why?Silly question really. But if EFHW was also scum, raerae, and if not, shraeye. Reasons should be obvious.
so theoretically, if none of us gets quickhammered sometime soon, it must be town vs scum. So you should think about, have a look at all the evidence out there, and decide which of us is more likely to be lying.So why would scum!me try to defend Joseph?
practically, coordinating a quick hammer is difficult, so this is not really a hard guarantee. but given the PoE we have here I have very little doubt that faust is scum, so we may aswell assume it.
Bullshit. It only ever gives me towncred if Joseph is lynched despite my efforts, which I would have no way of knowing. Otherwise all it means is that people are now more inclined to vote me over Joseph.so theoretically, if none of us gets quickhammered sometime soon, it must be town vs scum. So you should think about, have a look at all the evidence out there, and decide which of us is more likely to be lying.So why would scum!me try to defend Joseph?
practically, coordinating a quick hammer is difficult, so this is not really a hard guarantee. but given the PoE we have here I have very little doubt that faust is scum, so we may aswell assume it.
For towncred.
Why would scum!me defend EFHW? Presumably, you think it's for towncred also. Unless you think we're partners.You did not defend EFHW. You pointed out an obvious setup thing that means that EFHW is town conditional on ari being scum. To my knowledge you did not make an argument against lynching EFHW that was based on something other than that. shraeye was the reason there was no EFHW lynch, not you.
You did not defend EFHW.
If it isn't you two, and it isn't Ari, who do we vote today? Uncle, debate, or EFHW?Why isn't it Ari? (skimming and didn't see that called out).
If it isn't you two, and it isn't Ari, who do we vote today? Uncle, debate, or EFHW?Eddie err Uncle.
EFHW, thoughts on a faust/silver team? Who's their third?My worst fear and what I just signed on to talk about. There might not even be a third. I really think we need to lynch one of them, and faust feels much townier than silver, so I want us to lynch silver.
If it isn't you two, and it isn't Ari, who do we vote today? Uncle, debate, or EFHW?Why isn't it Ari? (skimming and didn't see that called out).
I'm out most of the day, I will be back later to see if there are any direct questions or requests.
Also trying to show EFHW that she's being a bit silly about scum NKing her here.I don't see this obvious thing you and faust are so sure about, so can you spell it out?
Also trying to show EFHW that she's being a bit silly about scum NKing her here.I don't see this obvious thing you and faust are so sure about, so can you spell it out?
arishipshape
Debate, you good with silver?
Uncle, thoughts on Ari?
Ari, can I get your lunch order, please?
arishipshape
Ready to call a third yet?
arishipshape
Ready to call a third yet?
per PoE it has to be eddie.
Debate, you good with silver?
Uncle, thoughts on Ari?
Ari, can I get your lunch order, please?
Sorry, forgot you were soft-voting Ari, what about debate? Do you see a faust/silver team?
Debate, you good with silver?
Uncle, thoughts on Ari?
Ari, can I get your lunch order, please?
Sorry, forgot you were soft-voting Ari, what about debate? Do you see a faust/silver team?
At least one of them has to be scum, probably silver. Both of them are possible, but their interactions seem much more extreme than I would expect from a scum team.
That being said silver did mention awkwardness in his interactions with Faust early being due to attempting to get in less fights with Faust. This seems like a weird game to get into that mindset without a reason. So maybe they are a team.
I would guess not, though. Faust just seems town to me, though, so that leaves me with Arishipshape, Silver, Debatepro.
(Also worth noting silver’s continued insistence that Debatepro is town)
Also interested in why I am seen as being scummier than Debatepro by Faust?
Faust, although if silver wants to chime in I would appreciate that as well, where do either of you (Faust/silver) find me scummy in relation to any of this?First thing, PoE. There are at least 2 scum in {silver, you, Debate}. And I read Debate as townier. You did not seem very invested in during the last Day and I strongly dislike the way you voted Joseph in the end only to jump back off when that wagon started gaining momentum.
Faust, although if silver wants to chime in I would appreciate that as well, where do either of you (Faust/silver) find me scummy in relation to any of this?First thing, PoE. There are at least 2 scum in {silver, you, Debate}. And I read Debate as townier. You did not seem very invested in during the last Day and I strongly dislike the way you voted Joseph in the end only to jump back off when that wagon started gaining momentum.
I also think that you make more sense as silver's partner. Debate/silver interaction has been quite strange and it does not seem that partnery.
Well, there isn't one specific interaction that I expect. But Debate was basically hailing silver as his Yoda during D2, and I don't think scum would do that to their partner.Faust, although if silver wants to chime in I would appreciate that as well, where do either of you (Faust/silver) find me scummy in relation to any of this?First thing, PoE. There are at least 2 scum in {silver, you, Debate}. And I read Debate as townier. You did not seem very invested in during the last Day and I strongly dislike the way you voted Joseph in the end only to jump back off when that wagon started gaining momentum.
I also think that you make more sense as silver's partner. Debate/silver interaction has been quite strange and it does not seem that partnery.
What would you expect from partners re: interaction? Agreement, fighting, ignoring?
Unvote Interested in hearing from SS and what they think.
Right now the player I trust the most is SS.
What does that make your scumteam then? Me, silver, and who? Do our interactions support whatever your conclusion is?I'm not calling scumteams just now. silver is scum, that's enough for today. Rereads are in order when we have a scum flip.
Debate, you good with silver?
Uncle, thoughts on Ari?
Ari, can I get your lunch order, please?
Sorry, forgot you were soft-voting Ari, what about debate? Do you see a faust/silver team?
Well, I'm ready to vote as soon as debate and Ari answer my questions.This the question you talking about?
Ari, can I get your lunch order, please?If so, for my last meal I shall have seafood. Like, pretty much any halveway decent seafood.
Vote: ArishipshapeOk, yesterday and the day before that, I was a lot more chill with my lynch. I kinda gave up proving my townieness as a lost cause, and figured you could lynch me and have it over with. Now, that has changed. We are now at Lynch right or Lose. Therefore, i'm going to have to demand a better case than "you were fake at the start of day 2". Why, in exact and excruciatingly glorious detail, are you voting for me?
So the biggest shift has been to move silver into that second group, so I am more likely to read a compelling case against him with more neutral eyes. Whereas prior to this day I viewed him as towny.
So the biggest shift has been to move silver into that second group, so I am more likely to read a compelling case against him with more neutral eyes. Whereas prior to this day I viewed him as towny.
Why is that? Aren't all the things that made me town yesterday still true?
Well, I'm ready to vote as soon as debate and Ari answer my questions.This the question you talking about?Ari, can I get your lunch order, please?If so, for my last meal I shall have seafood. Like, pretty much any halveway decent seafood.Vote: ArishipshapeOk, yesterday and the day before that, I was a lot more chill with my lynch. I kinda gave up proving my townieness as a lost cause, and figured you could lynch me and have it over with. Now, that has changed. We are now at Lynch right or Lose. Therefore, i'm going to have to demand a better case than "you were fake at the start of day 2". Why, in exact and excruciatingly glorious detail, are you voting for me?
Well, I'm ready to vote as soon as debate and Ari answer my questions.This the question you talking about?Ari, can I get your lunch order, please?If so, for my last meal I shall have seafood. Like, pretty much any halveway decent seafood.Vote: ArishipshapeOk, yesterday and the day before that, I was a lot more chill with my lynch. I kinda gave up proving my townieness as a lost cause, and figured you could lynch me and have it over with. Now, that has changed. We are now at Lynch right or Lose. Therefore, i'm going to have to demand a better case than "you were fake at the start of day 2". Why, in exact and excruciatingly glorious detail, are you voting for me?
She meant your lynch order, as in ranking all of us in the order you would lynch them.
I thought lunch was a running gag, and I was trying to take part in it. I would lynch faust, then uncle, then probably efhw. I have no idea whats roles are in this game, and with the dozens upon dozens of role possibilities it seems like fakeclaiming one of them is a pretty smart move.Well, I'm ready to vote as soon as debate and Ari answer my questions.This the question you talking about?Ari, can I get your lunch order, please?If so, for my last meal I shall have seafood. Like, pretty much any halveway decent seafood.Vote: ArishipshapeOk, yesterday and the day before that, I was a lot more chill with my lynch. I kinda gave up proving my townieness as a lost cause, and figured you could lynch me and have it over with. Now, that has changed. We are now at Lynch right or Lose. Therefore, i'm going to have to demand a better case than "you were fake at the start of day 2". Why, in exact and excruciatingly glorious detail, are you voting for me?
She meant your lynch order, as in ranking all of us in the order you would lynch them.
Seconded.
@Ari, I think it's cute you pretending like you didn't know what I was talking about like my phone hasn't been autocorrecting lynch to lunch all game. Just. F-ing. Adooooorrrrrrable.
I thought lunch was a running gag, and I was trying to take part in it. I would lynch faust, then uncle, then probably efhw. I have no idea whats roles are in this game, and with the dozens upon dozens of role possibilities it seems like fakeclaiming one of them is a pretty smart move.Well, I'm ready to vote as soon as debate and Ari answer my questions.This the question you talking about?Ari, can I get your lunch order, please?If so, for my last meal I shall have seafood. Like, pretty much any halveway decent seafood.Vote: ArishipshapeOk, yesterday and the day before that, I was a lot more chill with my lynch. I kinda gave up proving my townieness as a lost cause, and figured you could lynch me and have it over with. Now, that has changed. We are now at Lynch right or Lose. Therefore, i'm going to have to demand a better case than "you were fake at the start of day 2". Why, in exact and excruciatingly glorious detail, are you voting for me?
She meant your lynch order, as in ranking all of us in the order you would lynch them.
Seconded.
@Ari, I think it's cute you pretending like you didn't know what I was talking about like my phone hasn't been autocorrecting lynch to lunch all game. Just. F-ing. Adooooorrrrrrable.
Silver stayed under my radar by not giving literally any reasons for voting for me. Thats actually way way scummier than uncle, who at least has a halve baked one.I thought lunch was a running gag, and I was trying to take part in it. I would lynch faust, then uncle, then probably efhw. I have no idea whats roles are in this game, and with the dozens upon dozens of role possibilities it seems like fakeclaiming one of them is a pretty smart move.Well, I'm ready to vote as soon as debate and Ari answer my questions.This the question you talking about?Ari, can I get your lunch order, please?If so, for my last meal I shall have seafood. Like, pretty much any halveway decent seafood.Vote: ArishipshapeOk, yesterday and the day before that, I was a lot more chill with my lynch. I kinda gave up proving my townieness as a lost cause, and figured you could lynch me and have it over with. Now, that has changed. We are now at Lynch right or Lose. Therefore, i'm going to have to demand a better case than "you were fake at the start of day 2". Why, in exact and excruciatingly glorious detail, are you voting for me?
She meant your lynch order, as in ranking all of us in the order you would lynch them.
Seconded.
@Ari, I think it's cute you pretending like you didn't know what I was talking about like my phone hasn't been autocorrecting lynch to lunch all game. Just. F-ing. Adooooorrrrrrable.
Why not silver, you are high on his list, shouldn't town!ari scrutinize and be skeptical of him. If you are not, why?
arishipshapeSilver, why the heck do you find me scummy? This is lylo, the town has to get it's act together
Why not silver, you are high on his list, shouldn't town!ari scrutinize and be skeptical of him. If you are not, why?Silver stayed under my radar by not giving literally any reasons for voting for me. Thats actually way way scummier than uncle, who at least has a halve baked one.arishipshapeSilver, why the heck do you find me scummy? This is lylo, the town has to get it's act together
This response is rubbish. The case is stronger against you on this day than the previous days. I suspect people believe it isn't very informative to lynch you. Your degree of newbness and feigned ignorance fluctuates wildly.What case?
Dude you hammered a town without announcing your intent to hammer.This response is rubbish. The case is stronger against you on this day than the previous days. I suspect people believe it isn't very informative to lynch you. Your degree of newbness and feigned ignorance fluctuates wildly.What case?
I swear, on the last shred of honor that I may or may not have preserved in this train wreck of a game, that that hammer was completely un-intentional.
I would probably prefer doing him later rather than sooner.
But I am definitely willing to lynch him overall.
That being said, I am suspicious that you asking me and EFHW suggests that you are not asking what you appear to be asking, and my opinion will sway you negatively.
EFHW, Uncle, how about Debate? You guys want to make that lynch happen?I want a silver lynch.
EFHW, Uncle, how about Debate? You guys want to make that lynch happen?I want a silver lynch.
I would probably prefer doing him later rather than sooner.
But I am definitely willing to lynch him overall.
That being said, I am suspicious that you asking me and EFHW suggests that you are not asking what you appear to be asking, and my opinion will sway you negatively.
1) Why later?
2) What do you think I'm asking?
3) I'll explain everything, I promise this time I'm not just asking to ask.
I would probably prefer doing him later rather than sooner.
But I am definitely willing to lynch him overall.
That being said, I am suspicious that you asking me and EFHW suggests that you are not asking what you appear to be asking, and my opinion will sway you negatively.
1) Why later?
2) What do you think I'm asking?
3) I'll explain everything, I promise this time I'm not just asking to ask.
1. I think Lynching other people enables a higher chance at another day.
2. You are asking your scumreads who to kill as a way to then do the opposite.
3. Okay
Well that’s a switch from your previous beliefs.
Interesting theory about him being the PR... There comes a point where their power role doesn’t matter, though, but I don’t know.
If he is Ninja then that kicks EFHW’s influence up a lot.
Ehhhh, I would still probably push one of the other’s first to be safe. Ehhhhhhhhh...
If you lynch me we will have extra free time to join a new game. This game is not being powned by a team that includes Ari and Debatepro with a coach.
We are losing in an epic way, this will be a perfect scum win, new players can’t pull this off.
And consider what a silver lunch does re: faust. Does it make him town? Do we consider a faust lunch tomorrow? I think it hurts us to kill one of them today IF we're willing to entertain the thought of them being a team.
And consider what a silver lunch does re: faust. Does it make him town? Do we consider a faust lunch tomorrow? I think it hurts us to kill one of them today IF we're willing to entertain the thought of them being a team.
Why does kicking the can down the road on the silver/Faust with the paradox you describe make it more likely we’ll discover the partnership?
The way this game has unfolded I think it requires great skill so I’m up for lynching one of SS, EFHW, or Faust.
PPE
And, for what it's worth, when I suggested an EFHW lynch at the beginning of the day I was fishing, hoping scum would see it as an easy lynch since the IC suggested it. Clearly they are clever devils. That is highly disappointing.
I guess we're waiting to hear from faust then? Unless Ari wants to come back to the light?Mh, I really don't think ari and Debate are scum together. In what possible world do two newbie scums tunnel a third newbie for basically all of D1?
That kind of reasoning gets us in trouble. Who knows what newbies would do? They're new!I guess we're waiting to hear from faust then? Unless Ari wants to come back to the light?Mh, I really don't think ari and Debate are scum together. In what possible world do two newbie scums tunnel a third newbie for basically all of D1?
And if you do want to play the PR game, it's not like silver received any serious suspicion from either Debate or ari, so he may be the PR just as much as Debate in that team.Silver and Debate's reaction to raerae's proposal makes me think she is right about the PR. Of course, they can just kill me if we get the ninja (if there is one), but then they have wasted a possible mislynch and left an IC alive (silver's reasoning).
The way this game has unfolded I think it requires great skill so I’m up for lynching one of SS, EFHW, or Faust.
And if you do want to play the PR game, it's not like silver received any serious suspicion from either Debate or ari, so he may be the PR just as much as Debate in that team.Silver and Debate's reaction to raerae's proposal makes me think she is right about the PR. Of course, they can just kill me if we get the ninja (if there is one), but then they have wasted a possible mislynch and left an IC alive (silver's reasoning).
Naw, you two cool. I'm pretty sure it's you, me, EFHW, and faust. I'm pretty sure they're (Ari and silver) protecting Debate (notice how he's getting about as much suspicion as me and EFHW?) so I think that means he's got the PR, or at least the one they want to protect the most. Which is why I'd prefer his lynch today. You game?
Well by that reasoning noone would ever be able to have any sort of read on a newbie.That kind of reasoning gets us in trouble. Who knows what newbies would do? They're new!I guess we're waiting to hear from faust then? Unless Ari wants to come back to the light?Mh, I really don't think ari and Debate are scum together. In what possible world do two newbie scums tunnel a third newbie for basically all of D1?
Well by that reasoning noone would ever be able to have any sort of read on a newbie.That kind of reasoning gets us in trouble. Who knows what newbies would do? They're new!I guess we're waiting to hear from faust then? Unless Ari wants to come back to the light?Mh, I really don't think ari and Debate are scum together. In what possible world do two newbie scums tunnel a third newbie for basically all of D1?
They are harder to get a read on, that much is true. But I've found wagon analysis to be a useful tool for that because it really does not depend that much on personal playstyle.Well by that reasoning noone would ever be able to have any sort of read on a newbie.That kind of reasoning gets us in trouble. Who knows what newbies would do? They're new!I guess we're waiting to hear from faust then? Unless Ari wants to come back to the light?Mh, I really don't think ari and Debate are scum together. In what possible world do two newbie scums tunnel a third newbie for basically all of D1?
Which is kinda true, honestly.
They are harder to get a read on, that much is true. But I've found wagon analysis to be a useful tool for that because it really does not depend that much on personal playstyle.Well by that reasoning noone would ever be able to have any sort of read on a newbie.That kind of reasoning gets us in trouble. Who knows what newbies would do? They're new!I guess we're waiting to hear from faust then? Unless Ari wants to come back to the light?Mh, I really don't think ari and Debate are scum together. In what possible world do two newbie scums tunnel a third newbie for basically all of D1?
Which is kinda true, honestly.
And I don't think we can afford to play games like trying to lynch scum's PR. We should lynch whatever player has the highest chance of flipping scum, and that is silver by a mile.
The way this game has unfolded I think it requires great skill so I’m up for lynching one of SS, EFHW, or Faust.
Maybe the team is Debate, ari, Eddie!
No, and that is not how I do wagon analysis.They are harder to get a read on, that much is true. But I've found wagon analysis to be a useful tool for that because it really does not depend that much on personal playstyle.Well by that reasoning noone would ever be able to have any sort of read on a newbie.That kind of reasoning gets us in trouble. Who knows what newbies would do? They're new!I guess we're waiting to hear from faust then? Unless Ari wants to come back to the light?Mh, I really don't think ari and Debate are scum together. In what possible world do two newbie scums tunnel a third newbie for basically all of D1?
Which is kinda true, honestly.
I've been on every lunch this game, does that make me scum?
Last game would be M120, the one where I correctly called you out as a PR in D1?And I don't think we can afford to play games like trying to lynch scum's PR. We should lynch whatever player has the highest chance of flipping scum, and that is silver by a mile.
If you are in fact town, then I'll come back to this next time you express a confident and incorrect scum read on me. You did the same thing just last game.
You said that you suspected me to be a PR after I flipped, and you did push my lynch while I was alive and town.Dude you can read the Mason QT where this is explicitly written with a D1 timestamp.
Naw, you two cool. I'm pretty sure it's you, me, EFHW, and faust. I'm pretty sure they're (Ari and silver) protecting Debate (notice how he's getting about as much suspicion as me and EFHW?) so I think that means he's got the PR, or at least the one they want to protect the most. Which is why I'd prefer his lynch today. You game?
Naw, you two cool. I'm pretty sure it's you, me, EFHW, and faust. I'm pretty sure they're (Ari and silver) protecting Debate (notice how he's getting about as much suspicion as me and EFHW?) so I think that means he's got the PR, or at least the one they want to protect the most. Which is why I'd prefer his lynch today. You game?
Do scum!teams typically this boldly defend/protection technique?
Naw, you two cool. I'm pretty sure it's you, me, EFHW, and faust. I'm pretty sure they're (Ari and silver) protecting Debate (notice how he's getting about as much suspicion as me and EFHW?) so I think that means he's got the PR, or at least the one they want to protect the most. Which is why I'd prefer his lynch today. You game?
Do scum!teams typically this boldly defend/protection technique?
We are having a difficult time reading this particular crop of newbies. But I'm objecting to the idea of "newbies would never ..."Well by that reasoning noone would ever be able to have any sort of read on a newbie.That kind of reasoning gets us in trouble. Who knows what newbies would do? They're new!I guess we're waiting to hear from faust then? Unless Ari wants to come back to the light?Mh, I really don't think ari and Debate are scum together. In what possible world do two newbie scums tunnel a third newbie for basically all of D1?
I don't have time to go through the thread right now, but faust has taken a number of risks. Doesn't confirm him as town, but makes him look on the townier side.
The way this game has unfolded I think it requires great skill so I’m up for lynching one of SS, EFHW, or Faust.
Maybe the team is Debate, ari, Eddie!
It isn't. It includes faust. You're all just falling for his BS. The town!faust theory has so little evidence behind it.
Debate, pretend for a second I just reread some stuff and maybe I'm questioning my logic. Can you give me your top three lunch candidates? I have asked this earlier and you deftly avoided that question.
So maybe we should go with Debatepro at this point. Train wreck is right.Told you.Yes you did.
@EFHW what do you think of faust’s pseudo-case in #1952 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19407.msg789022#msg789022)? I say pseudo-case not out of disrespect but just that it didn’t over sell what he thinks.He's being fair. I didn't say anything early about Eddie because I didn't want to be asked why. I planned to say it near the deadline. I guess he would have made a different choice. I wouldn't vote me based on that, and he isn't either, so far.
I don't have time to go through the thread right now, but faust has taken a number of risks. Doesn't confirm him as town, but makes him look on the townier side.
The way this game has unfolded I think it requires great skill so I’m up for lynching one of SS, EFHW, or Faust.
Maybe the team is Debate, ari, Eddie!
It isn't. It includes faust. You're all just falling for his BS. The town!faust theory has so little evidence behind it.
I don't have time to go through the thread right now, but faust has taken a number of risks. Doesn't confirm him as town, but makes him look on the townier side.
The way this game has unfolded I think it requires great skill so I’m up for lynching one of SS, EFHW, or Faust.
Maybe the team is Debate, ari, Eddie!
It isn't. It includes faust. You're all just falling for his BS. The town!faust theory has so little evidence behind it.
I'll chime in! If he was pushing mail-mi because he knew he was the cop then he knew I'd been investigated so by pushing me to vote mail-mi he risked exposing the cop and this creating three ICs that day. He did something yesterday that I can't remember right now but I remember thinking it wasn't something scum would do. That second argument is really compelling, I know.
Faust is also the one who said silver gets no town cred for being off vote or wagon on MiX and DS. So being right about a town isn't alignment indicative.Context matters.
He makes a pseudo-case she has a pseudo-response.This is such bullshit. It was never supposed to be a case. You asked my thoughts about EFHW and I presented them.
I don't have time to go through the thread right now, but faust has taken a number of risks. Doesn't confirm him as town, but makes him look on the townier side.
The way this game has unfolded I think it requires great skill so I’m up for lynching one of SS, EFHW, or Faust.
Maybe the team is Debate, ari, Eddie!
It isn't. It includes faust. You're all just falling for his BS. The town!faust theory has so little evidence behind it.
I'll chime in! If he was pushing mail-mi because he knew he was the cop then he knew I'd been investigated so by pushing me to vote mail-mi he risked exposing the cop and this creating three ICs that day. He did something yesterday that I can't remember right now but I remember thinking it wasn't something scum would do. That second argument is really compelling, I know.
He said he didn't know mail-mi breadcumbed his role, action, and result. If we don't believe him we should vote for him.
I don't have time to go through the thread right now, but faust has taken a number of risks. Doesn't confirm him as town, but makes him look on the townier side.
The way this game has unfolded I think it requires great skill so I’m up for lynching one of SS, EFHW, or Faust.
Maybe the team is Debate, ari, Eddie!
It isn't. It includes faust. You're all just falling for his BS. The town!faust theory has so little evidence behind it.
I'll chime in! If he was pushing mail-mi because he knew he was the cop then he knew I'd been investigated so by pushing me to vote mail-mi he risked exposing the cop and this creating three ICs that day. He did something yesterday that I can't remember right now but I remember thinking it wasn't something scum would do. That second argument is really compelling, I know.
He said he didn't know mail-mi breadcumbed his role, action, and result. If we don't believe him we should vote for him.
As scum he doesn't miss that. As scum he stops pushing and just NKs him. We've had this conversation, my opinion have changed on the matter.
I have to say I'm feeling Debatepro a bit more again. You'd think that if he was town, then me refusing to take raerae up on her lynch proposal would make him think twice about my being scum.
But it hasn't been bold, that's the thing. It's been subtle, nobody's really come out (today) and proclaimed your town status, but nobody has really cast any suspicion on you either.Do scum!teams typically this boldly defend/protection technique?Naw, you two cool. I'm pretty sure it's you, me, EFHW, and faust. I'm pretty sure they're (Ari and silver) protecting Debate (notice how he's getting about as much suspicion as me and EFHW?) so I think that means he's got the PR, or at least the one they want to protect the most. Which is why I'd prefer his lynch today. You game?
Lynching debatepro will most likely result in us losing the game right there.
Faust, although if silver wants to chime in I would appreciate that as well, where do either of you (Faust/silver) find me scummy in relation to any of this?First thing, PoE. There are at least 2 scum in {silver, you, Debate}. And I read Debate as townier. You did not seem very invested in during the last Day and I strongly dislike the way you voted Joseph in the end only to jump back off when that wagon started gaining momentum.
I also think that you make more sense as silver's partner. Debate/silver interaction has been quite strange and it does not seem that partnery.
But it hasn't been bold, that's the thing. It's been subtle, nobody's really come out (today) and proclaimed your town status, but nobody has really cast any suspicion on you either.Do scum!teams typically this boldly defend/protection technique?Naw, you two cool. I'm pretty sure it's you, me, EFHW, and faust. I'm pretty sure they're (Ari and silver) protecting Debate (notice how he's getting about as much suspicion as me and EFHW?) so I think that means he's got the PR, or at least the one they want to protect the most. Which is why I'd prefer his lynch today. You game?
Oh, I thought your position was that the protection was obvious. Interesting that we had a moment on this day we're faust and SS agreed about something.Lynching debatepro will most likely result in us losing the game right there.Faust, although if silver wants to chime in I would appreciate that as well, where do either of you (Faust/silver) find me scummy in relation to any of this?First thing, PoE. There are at least 2 scum in {silver, you, Debate}. And I read Debate as townier. You did not seem very invested in during the last Day and I strongly dislike the way you voted Joseph in the end only to jump back off when that wagon started gaining momentum.
I also think that you make more sense as silver's partner. Debate/silver interaction has been quite strange and it does not seem that partnery.
But it hasn't been bold, that's the thing. It's been subtle, nobody's really come out (today) and proclaimed your town status, but nobody has really cast any suspicion on you either.Do scum!teams typically this boldly defend/protection technique?Naw, you two cool. I'm pretty sure it's you, me, EFHW, and faust. I'm pretty sure they're (Ari and silver) protecting Debate (notice how he's getting about as much suspicion as me and EFHW?) so I think that means he's got the PR, or at least the one they want to protect the most. Which is why I'd prefer his lynch today. You game?
Oh, I thought your position was that the protection was obvious. Interesting that we had a moment on this day we're faust and SS agreed about something.Lynching debatepro will most likely result in us losing the game right there.Faust, although if silver wants to chime in I would appreciate that as well, where do either of you (Faust/silver) find me scummy in relation to any of this?First thing, PoE. There are at least 2 scum in {silver, you, Debate}. And I read Debate as townier. You did not seem very invested in during the last Day and I strongly dislike the way you voted Joseph in the end only to jump back off when that wagon started gaining momentum.
I also think that you make more sense as silver's partner. Debate/silver interaction has been quite strange and it does not seem that partnery.
What makes it interesting? Or, specifically, what's that agreement tell you?
Eddie, thoughts?
Debate and silver both feel like caught scum to me.
Eddie, thoughts?
No idea.
...
Both silver and Faust have been lining up with me logically this whole game, and at least one of them was lying about it, Ari is almost certainly scum (unless we are looking at Debate/Silver/Faust), Debatepro talks like he has an experienced scumbuddy (Probably Silver)...
Part of the ExperiencedScumBuddy thought experiment is to get the more experienced town players to really think through what is going on. I mean pretend your scum, how would you have coached me to play in D1-D3? Does it look like anything you've seen in my play? It shouldn't and I can say that with confidence, but what do I know.
@UncleEurope - I know "ExperiencedScumBuddy" is a reason you read me as scummy and I've stopped using it because it's it's clearly not helpful to town, but I was trying to be in character: google language games.
Hells bells. Well, even if we'd have lynched you today I don't think I would have gone after Eddie tomorrow. Sorry, town.Well, you would have been dead, maybe then there would have been a chance of people listening to me.
Hells bells. Well, even if we'd have lynched you today I don't think I would have gone after Eddie tomorrow. Sorry, town.Well, you would have been dead, maybe then there would have been a chance of people listening to me.
Hells bells. Well, even if we'd have lynched you today I don't think I would have gone after Eddie tomorrow. Sorry, town.Well, you would have been dead, maybe then there would have been a chance of people listening to me.
Well the Motion Detector really screwed with us. Was there any chance of it being useful?
Well the Motion Detector really screwed with us. Was there any chance of it being useful?
Definitely; Eddie and I are goons.
Thread unlocked
I'm torn between giving the MVP to silverspawn or Uncleeurope, happy to hear feedback on the choice between the two of them. I thought you played well, Ari, a very good outing and starting out as scum can be very stressful. Just that claim at the end of D2...
Also, here's the last comic I had prepared in this series:
(https://i.imgur.com/a2disaw.png)
I'm going to give people a day in case they want to redact anything before I release personal threads and the mod thread (an abyss you may not want gazing back into you, probably don't ever click that monstrosity when I post it.)
@ Umbrage: Like, even after boldly lynching so many town in the first 3 days and then relying on others to clean up for me??
UPDATE:
I HIGHLY SUSPECT ARI IS TELLING THE TRUTH ABOUT HIS ROLE BUT IS SCUM. Soooo, yup; good thought exercise.
Oh, so Hume is the Neapolitan enabler because he woke Kant (the Neapolitan) from his dogmatic slumber.Me too. I was also really looking forward to my seemingly inevitable lynch just for the flavor.
I was really hoping SS would be lynched so I could do some flavor with Descartes being right about the evil demon. Scum fakeclaims were Epictetus and Camus.
@ari @eddie do you want to edit anything out? Otherwise can share the QT right now. And I'd like to see the speccy!I bet the town is looking forward to seeing our thoughts. I know I would in their place. Go ahead
@ari @eddie do you want to edit anything out? Otherwise can share the QT right now. And I'd like to see the speccy!
@ari @eddie do you want to edit anything out? Otherwise can share the QT right now. And I'd like to see the speccy!
I’m fine with it being outed.
Regarding mail-mi, I had a strong gut read day 1 that he was the neap, I didn’t pressure it because it seemed silly to push the other guys to go for my gut over a mason, but it did mean I was watching mail-mi like a hawk day 2, which just confirmed my suspicion.
Beautiful flavor, by the way: I know I would be hype to be any philosopher, but I especially like Descartes and his "nah nothing is true. Oh I exist. Okay everything exists too"I thought it was foolish, quite frankly. No insult intended, you would have been an epic boon for town if you lived. Regardless, I feel because I had no established meta and was intentionally providing minimal content to the conversation (mostly just yelling about how others weren't providing content lol) that, while lynching me would have been premature, trusting me wouldn't have been smart. Therefore, I distanced myself from you. And the rest was history.
@ari, how did you (really) react to my townread on you? Genually curious.
I'm really looking forward to playing as town and actually scumhunting with you guys. This is quite fun. Well played to you all. Except those of you that voted for debatepro. I wasn't lying when I said he was the towniest town to ever town.
I'm really looking forward to playing as town and actually scumhunting with you guys. This is quite fun. Well played to you all. Except those of you that voted for debatepro. I wasn't lying when I said he was the towniest town to ever town.
@Faust I gunned for you this game, and then some. Sorry if it seemed like an a-hole move, I felt it was the optimal strategy, and being a jerk and obfuscating, playing dumb, etc was all a part of my town confusing ruse. No hard feelings?
I do think the setup was somewhat town favored, based on how close it felt after three mislynches and killing neap with just one result and dodging all of EFHW's targets. But I don't think there's anything wrong with the MD in particular, just with the amount of power.I agree. But it does make your win all the more rewarding, doesn't it?
@Faust I gunned for you this game, and then some. Sorry if it seemed like an a-hole move, I felt it was the optimal strategy, and being a jerk and obfuscating, playing dumb, etc was all a part of my town confusing ruse. No hard feelings?I don't particularly like plays that are deliberately walking that line, as I think scum does not need them. But it was your first game, and you were scum, I can see that you would think you needed to do it.
Debatepro Ludwig Wittgenstein, Vanilla Townie, Lynched Day 4- faust Friedrich Nietzsche, Vanilla Townie, Endgamed
mail-mi (formerly Dylan32) Immanuel Kant, Neapolitan, Killed Night 2- silverspawn An Evil Demon, Mafia Goon, Survived
- Uncleeurope Socrates, Mafia Goon, Survived
DatSwan Simone de Beauvoir, Vanilla Townie, Lynched Day 2MiX René Descartes, Vanilla Townie, Lynched Day 1LaLight Søren Kierkegaard, Mason, Killed Night 1Joseph2302 Plato, Vanilla Townie, Lynched Day 3- arishipshape David Hume, Mafia Neapolitan Enabler
shraeye Jean-Paul Sartre, Mason, Killed Night 3- EFHW Rudolf Carnap, Town Motion Detector, Endgamed
- raerae Karl Marx, Vanilla Townie, Endgamed
Can I just say how aesthetically pleasing it is that this ended on page 100? Let's try not to post more than 14 more times...
Can I just say how aesthetically pleasing it is that this ended on page 100? Let's try not to post more than 14 more times...
But it ended on page 50.
I'm really looking forward to playing as town and actually scumhunting with you guys. This is quite fun. Well played to you all. Except those of you that voted for debatepro. I wasn't lying when I said he was the towniest town to ever town.Literally no idea how you survived. Obvious scum being bussed....
@Faust I gunned for you this game, and then some. Sorry if it seemed like an a-hole move, I felt it was the optimal strategy, and being a jerk and obfuscating, playing dumb, etc was all a part of my town confusing ruse. No hard feelings?