Dominion Strategy Forum

Dominion => Dominion FAQ => Topic started by: LittleFish on December 08, 2018, 10:19:21 am

Title: What's the best card?
Post by: LittleFish on December 08, 2018, 10:19:21 am
Is there any kingdom card that would help any strategy? Or would that be overpowered?
Title: Re: What's the best card?
Post by: Simon Jester on December 08, 2018, 11:05:04 am
Welcome to the forums :)

There has been tons of discussion what the best card is and why. Most notably via Qvist ranking list. (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/List_of_Cards_by_Qvist_Rankings)

The list separate the card based on their cost, but as a general rule you can check the five and 6+-cost cards for the most powerful one. Chapel and Ambassador can probably be in the discussion as well. However there is no card that is good in every strategy. Not even the sublime trashers since they really counter gardens-strategies and others that don't care if their decks getting huge. Likewise with a general powerhouse as King's Court (KC)- if you want many Treasures in your deck you might want to skip it altogether (Happens perhaps 10-7% of the games it's in). So no, there is no card that is helpful in every strategy, no card is unbeatable.

But probably the event Donate comes closest to be the most powerful thing in Dominion. King's Court for the most powerful Kingdom card.     
Title: Re: What's the best card?
Post by: Awaclus on December 08, 2018, 11:28:30 am
There is no kingdom card that helps every possible strategy, but there are kingdom cards that help certain strategies so much that their presence in the kingdom almost automatically dictates that you have to play that strategy if possible (e.g. Bridge Troll, Goons, King's Court) and kingdom cards that are extremely useful in a wide variety of strategies (e.g. Masquerade).
Title: Re: What's the best card?
Post by: McGarnacle on December 08, 2018, 04:10:47 pm
There is no kingdom card that helps every possible strategy, but there are kingdom cards that help certain strategies so much that their presence in the kingdom almost automatically dictates that you have to play that strategy if possible (e.g. Bridge Troll, Goons, King's Court) and kingdom cards that are extremely useful in a wide variety of strategies (e.g. Masquerade).

Wait Bridge Troll is great now? Do you mean just Bridge?
Title: Re: What's the best card?
Post by: Awaclus on December 08, 2018, 04:13:08 pm
There is no kingdom card that helps every possible strategy, but there are kingdom cards that help certain strategies so much that their presence in the kingdom almost automatically dictates that you have to play that strategy if possible (e.g. Bridge Troll, Goons, King's Court) and kingdom cards that are extremely useful in a wide variety of strategies (e.g. Masquerade).

Wait Bridge Troll is great now? Do you mean just Bridge?

Bridge Troll is better than Bridge, but sure, Bridge could be on that list too.
Title: Re: What's the best card?
Post by: Simon Jester on December 08, 2018, 06:08:08 pm
There is no kingdom card that helps every possible strategy, but there are kingdom cards that help certain strategies so much that their presence in the kingdom almost automatically dictates that you have to play that strategy if possible (e.g. Bridge Troll, Goons, King's Court) and kingdom cards that are extremely useful in a wide variety of strategies (e.g. Masquerade).

Wait Bridge Troll is great now? Do you mean just Bridge?

Wait, Bridge Troll is not considered awesomesauce by everyone?
Title: Re: What's the best card?
Post by: McGarnacle on December 09, 2018, 10:52:51 am
Is there any kingdom card that would help any strategy? Or would that be overpowered?

Jester
Title: Re: What's the best card?
Post by: Holunder9 on December 09, 2018, 10:56:53 am
Is there any kingdom card that would help any strategy? Or would that be overpowered?
Scout. Totally crazy.
Title: Re: What's the best card?
Post by: Dylan32 on December 09, 2018, 11:39:49 am
Moat             
Title: Re: What's the best card?
Post by: Simon Jester on December 09, 2018, 02:31:40 pm
Is there any kingdom card that would help any strategy? Or would that be overpowered?

Jester

Agree.
Title: Re: What's the best card?
Post by: Awaclus on December 09, 2018, 02:55:31 pm
Is there any kingdom card that would help any strategy? Or would that be overpowered?

Jester

Agree.

Jester doesn't help e.g. Hermit/Market Square in any way.
Title: Re: What's the best card?
Post by: ipofanes on December 10, 2018, 04:17:17 am
Is there any kingdom card that would help any strategy? Or would that be overpowered?

Jester

Agree.

Jester doesn't help e.g. Hermit/Market Square in any way.

Indeed Jester is a nuisance in every carefully crafted deck at a time where you have to choose between helping your opponent or, for instance, loosen the connection between your Sauna/Avanto pairs or your Cultists.

Ironmonger is almost a must-buy for me almost regardless of strategy. Exception being possibly action-heavy Scrying Pool decks with no terminals, but even then the action sifting for the next Pool is a big plus.
Title: Re: What's the best card?
Post by: greybirdofprey on December 10, 2018, 08:36:56 am
The Get Out of Hell Free Card from Secret Six (2008)?
Title: Re: What's the best card?
Post by: Simon Jester on December 10, 2018, 02:16:45 pm
Is there any kingdom card that would help any strategy? Or would that be overpowered?

Jester

Agree.

Jester doesn't help e.g. Hermit/Market Square in any way.

In case of woosh: Check our profile pictures (and my name).
Title: Re: What's the best card?
Post by: Kirian on December 10, 2018, 03:21:36 pm
Likewise with a general powerhouse as King's Court (KC)- if you want many Treasures in your deck you might want to skip it altogether (Happens perhaps 10-7% of the games it's in).

ISWYDT

Quote
But probably the event Donate comes closest to be the most powerful thing in Dominion. King's Court for the most powerful Kingdom card.

I would also hold Donate up as probably the quintessential "must buy" card.  I have never won a game where I skipped it and the opponent didn't.  I have never lost a game where the opponent skipped it and I didn't.
Title: Re: What's the best card?
Post by: Simon Jester on December 10, 2018, 03:57:07 pm
Quote
But probably the event Donate comes closest to be the most powerful thing in Dominion. King's Court for the most powerful Kingdom card.

I would also hold Donate up as probably the quintessential "must buy" card.  I have never won a game where I skipped it and the opponent didn't.  I have never lost a game where the opponent skipped it and I didn't.

Actually I have done it plenty (as in, more than once). As long as there is a rather weak board and good kingdom trashers Donate loses too much momentum to be worth it imo. However that is indeed rare and I played those games at a time where I was scared to death of Donate and tried to avoid it if ever possible. Would probably play those kingdom differently now when I know it better.
Title: Re: What's the best card?
Post by: hypercube on December 10, 2018, 05:17:20 pm
Is there any kingdom card that would help any strategy? Or would that be overpowered?

Page probably comes the closest; almost all strategies will be helped either by Champion or the treasure gaining from Treasure Hunter/Hero. The major exceptions are very strong two-card combos like Mandarin/Capital or Counting House/Travelling Fair.
Title: Re: What's the best card?
Post by: Gubump on May 21, 2019, 01:21:24 pm
I think that Hireling might actually help every possible strategy. I don't know of any strategies that aren't improved by having a larger handsize.
Title: Re: What's the best card?
Post by: Awaclus on May 21, 2019, 01:47:20 pm
I think that Hireling might actually help every possible strategy. I don't know of any strategies that aren't improved by having a larger handsize.

It doesn't help strategies that don't hit $6 at all or until very late in the game.
Title: Re: What's the best card?
Post by: Dingan on May 21, 2019, 02:30:33 pm
What about Copper? Barring edge cases (Alms, Shelters+Advance, Baker+Poor House, Engineer, etc.), it helps all strategies.
Title: Re: What's the best card?
Post by: hhelibebcnofnena on May 21, 2019, 02:51:35 pm
I think that Hireling might actually help every possible strategy. I don't know of any strategies that aren't improved by having a larger handsize.

Draw-to-x
Title: Re: What's the best card?
Post by: mail-mi on May 21, 2019, 03:40:21 pm
Province.
Title: Re: What's the best card?
Post by: hhelibebcnofnena on May 21, 2019, 04:09:29 pm
Province.

Still only most games. Province isn't useful in, say, a Bishop/Fortress golden deck.
Title: Re: What's the best card?
Post by: King Leon on May 21, 2019, 06:08:42 pm
I first thought about Chapel, but Chapel may work not as well with Gardens.

Sentry, however, is usable in any kingdom. It is nonterminal, can sift, trash, inspect the deck and change the deck order. Other very versatile cards include Wishing Well, Vagrant, Necromancer and Ironmonger.
Title: Re: What's the best card?
Post by: Dingan on May 21, 2019, 06:20:08 pm
There has been tons of discussion what the best card is and why.

Someone's gotta keep the F in FAQ
Title: Re: What's the best card?
Post by: hhelibebcnofnena on May 21, 2019, 09:31:56 pm
I first thought about Chapel, but Chapel may work not as well with Gardens.

Sentry, however, is usable in any kingdom. It is nonterminal, can sift, trash, inspect the deck and change the deck order. Other very versatile cards include Wishing Well, Vagrant, Necromancer and Ironmonger.

Vagrant: Strong trasher in kingdom, source of VP tokens as a viable non Victory-card strategy, no relevant attacks, other (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/3/3d/Coin2.png/16px-Coin2.png) cost strictly better than plain cantrip (such as pawn)

I couldn't think of any reason I wouldn't go for any of the other cards on that list. The below are all from the wiki.

Ironmonger: Heavy cursing
Vagrant (again): If draw to X is the clearly dominant strategy for the kingdom, but there's weak trashing.
Necromancer: Rogue or Graverobber in kingdom

Sentry: Stronger trashing (although I'm not sure about that. Sentry might still be pretty good for the deck inspection/sifting). It also said it's not great with big money. You might still want one, I think. Maybe if both conditions are true you don't go for it? But if there's stronger trashing, then you don't go big money usually.
Wishing Well: The wiki didn't offer any reason here, other than "Silver, which is usually superior". I'm not sure about that. I mean, it's probably true in big money, but even then you might want at least one Wishing Well.

I wasn't sure about the wiki's answers for antisynergies with Sentry and Wishing Well. At least, none of them were antisynergetic enough for me to be satisfied saying I won't go for them even once in that situation. Am I wrong; are these reasons enough? Are these the cards that are good in any situation? Is there a different reason not to go for them?
Title: Re: What's the best card?
Post by: faust on May 22, 2019, 02:17:26 am
I think that Hireling might actually help every possible strategy. I don't know of any strategies that aren't improved by having a larger handsize.
Diplomat.