Dominion Strategy Forum
Miscellaneous => Forum Games => Mafia Game Threads => Topic started by: SpaceAnemone on November 25, 2018, 06:07:32 am
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Welcome to M120: Czech Mafia!
Setup: M120 will use asher 9++ (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=10639.msg353797#msg353797).
Mods: SpaceAnemone, EFHW
Player List:
1. faust
2. LaLight
3. Robz
4. mcmcsalot
5. DatSwan
6. Jimmmmm
7. ashersky
8. UmbrageOfSnow
9. jotheonah
10. Galzria
11. silver
12. Dylan
Tagged: e, hypercube
Sub list: WCD, Joseph
Navigation: Start of D1 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19249.msg779747#msg779747), Start of D2 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19249.msg780838#msg780838), Start of D3 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19249.msg781548#msg781548), Start of D4 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19249.msg782011#msg782011), Start of D5 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19249.msg782595#msg782595), Start of D6 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19249.msg782730#msg782730)
The Golden Rule:
This is a game. Everyone who signs up to play must be considerate of each other, never get personal, and focus on having fun. Once the game starts, having signed up is a commitment: inactivity is just as inconsiderate as rude comments.
The Standard Rules:
1. No communication between players outside of the game thread or shared QTs at any time. This includes passing references, jokes, or cases in other games or threads, whether in context or not.
2. If the game thread is locked, do not post. If you are unsure if something is locked, ask the mod by PM.
3. Direct or verbatim quoting of mod-provided information is strictly forbidden. Paraphrasing is okay.
4. Actions with instructions that do not specify a game state will be resolved in the order they are received.
5. All night actions must be submitted within 24 hours of day ending.
6. Players must post at least once every 24 hours.
7. Do not edit or delete posts, ever. If you need to clarify or correct something, post again.
8. Invisible text, font size less than 10, and spoiler tags are not allowed.
9. Cryptography is not allowed.
10. The time between a lynch being reached and a flip being provided is called twilight. All players may continue posting during this time, including the lynched player.
11. Dead players may not post in thread or QT, except their Role QT. A lynched player is not "dead" until a flip has been provided.
12. Personal multimedia, such as video or audio recordings, are not allowed in the game thread.
The Voting Rules:
1. Votes should be in this format: Vote: Playername. Please do not include other text or newlines in the bolding tag. Unambiguous nicknames are acceptable if they are already in common use. Your vote may not be counted if it cannot be picked up by an automated vote counter.
2. Unvotes should be in this format: unvote.
3. Unvotes are not required if changing your vote from one player to another.
4. You may vote: no lynch.
5. Lynches occur when a simple majority (rounded up) of living players is reached. Once reached, a lynch cannot be undone.
The Rest:
1. Blue-purple text is reserved for the mod. Players may not use it, or anything that looks similar. To avoid confusion, please remove mod colour if quoting the mod's posts.
2. If you have an issue or problem with the game, please PM the Mod. Do not post complaints in the game thread.
3. Mods make mistakes - please point them out gently. If they can be corrected, they will. If irreversible, they will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
4. If a mod error disadvantages one faction greatly, the game may be called off.
5. Ask all questions and make all requests directly to the mod via PM. Questions deemed as "universal" (defined as questions for which the answers should be available to all players) will be requested to be re-posted in the Game Thread and answered there.
6. One prod will be issued after 24 hours without posting in the game thread. Players are subject to replacement or modkill after one prod.
7. All rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity, as determined by the mod.
8. Each player will receive their own QT, regardless of role. Don't quote from it.
9. If the game goes on for 3 days and 3 nights without a lynch or nightkill, town wins.
Deadlines:
1. Days will last seven IRL days.
2. Nights will last 24-48 IRL hours, to be announced at the end of the day. (Your mod cannot always be available for modding at any given hour...)
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QT/Role info
Example Role QT message:
Dobrý večer, XXX. You are YYY of team ZZZ.
English explanation of the role name.
English explanation of the win condition.
Teams are Vesničané for Town and Šmejdi for Scum.
Role namess are as follows:
VT -> prostý vesničan
Universal Backup -> Univerzální Záložník
Cop -> Policajt
Doctor -> Doktor
Vigilante -> Strážce (spravedlnosti). Not a good translation, but the Czech friend who was helping me was having a hard time finding a good word.
Mason -> Zednář (which is builder, but the Order of the Freemasons translates as "Řád svobodných zednářů", so it seems appropriate).
Innocent Child -> Nevinné Dítě
Roleblocker -> Blokovač Rolí
Goon -> Gorila
Strongman -> Silák
Bulletproof -> Neprůstřelňák
Godfather -> Kmotr
The "one-shot" modifier is "na jedno použití".
Rule Clarifications
Scum RB trumps town RB, if both exist.
If masons exist, they can use their QT(s) in both day and night phases.
Scum can talk at night but do not have daychat.
Don't forget about the asher 9++ (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=10639.msg353797#msg353797) link, which explains quite a lot about the possible setups.
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Flavour
Dobrý den!
I intend to be very light on flavour. I've been learning Czech for around a year via Duolingo... so I'm still pretty useless at it!
The role names were translated with the help of a Czech friend who didn't really know anything about Mafia, so that was a whole other exercise in translation.
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/in
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/in
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/in
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/tag
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/tag
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/in!
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/in sicle
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/tag
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/in
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/in
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/in
yay!
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/in
yay!
Woah! Awesome.
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/in
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/in
I hoped this would happen when I saw you in the design contest thread.
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/in
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This is shaping up to be quite the lineup :)
Remaining wishlist in no particular order:
Voltgloss
Voltaire
yuma
Teproc
...
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/in
!!!
Welcome back!
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/in
!!!
Welcome back!
/in
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Mod note: My existence has been swallowed by work, so there's little chance of this kicking off before Sunday 9th Dec even if it fills before then... my apologies for anyone itching to get started!
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/in
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with the change in start date, /in
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That’s hammer.
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/tag
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Mod note: My existence has been swallowed by work, so there's little chance of this kicking off before Sunday 9th Dec even if it fills before then... my apologies for anyone itching to get started!
I am itching to get started ... tomorrow.
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SPACE! We starting this, or what?
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I'm super busy today, so I'm okay with Space being busy.
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As excited as I am about this, I am realizing I will have like a week and a half V/LA starting on the 20th during which I probably won't be able to play at all. So idk if I should /out and join a new game in the new year. If the game stops/slows down over Christmas and New Years it might be ok, I just don't really know the norms.
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If you decide to out jotheonah, I’m happy to /in
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Other than Christmas Day itself, the period around there is when I'm likely to be the most available in this game.
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Looks like you're full, but if anyone else drops out, I can /sub
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I'm back, to some degree! Enough that I'll try and set things going tonight in the next hour or so (then I have to sleep... jetlag after my trip to Tenessee is killing me!).
A co-mod may be useful. I've got some rather tight work deadlines and some personal stuff that mean I may have to disappear again for a day or two at short notice.
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PMs going out nowish. Please "/confirm" in your QTs.
I intend to run the game with an extra 24 hours for xmas day if that falls during a daytime, and a discretionary number of extra hours if it's night. Given that we have a willing sub list, I intend to be proactive in subbing out non-present players if they reach 24 hours without posting more than once in the game when they don't have an active VLA posted.
Please post your VLA times in this thread (in addition to anything you do in the VLA thread) at least 72 hours before the start of your intended VLA. This will allow all players to take better account of patchy availability, and will allow me to adjust deadlines as necessary.
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Looks like you're full, but if anyone else drops out, I can /sub
Same here
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Looks like you're full, but if anyone else drops out, I can /sub
Same here
Or I could comod.
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You should all have your PMs with QT links now.
D1 will begin very approximately 24 hours after the last person checks in, to allow N0 strategising for all relevant parties. Please consider the current period an extended N0 for QT chat purposes.
If there are any hold-outs after 5pm forum time on Thursday, I'll consider swapping in someone from the sub list.
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Looks like you're full, but if anyone else drops out, I can /sub
Same here
Or I could comod.
Comod would be velmí dobré! I'll PM you some details.
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We've officially been in N0 for some time.
I intend to kick off D1 tomorrow morning, Czech time :-)
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Dobré ráno! Good morning!
It's the start of D1, in our nice peaceful little Czech village of Vesnice (which literally means village). I do hope nothing bad happens...
Vote Count 1.0
Not voting (12): faust, LaLight, Robz, mcmcsalot, DatSwan, Jimmmmm, ashersky, UmbrageOfSnow, jotheonah, Galzria, silver, Dylan
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. D1 will end at 11am Czech time (5am Forum Time) on Thursday 20th December.
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Finally I'm in a game again.
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Space, how will you handle end-of-year holidays in terms of deadline extensions?
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Finally I'm in a game again.
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Nice to meet you joth! I've read all the games on this forum, so I know you, but you don't know me. glad to have you back!
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oh and UoS, glad to have you back as well
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Nice to meet you joth! I've read all the games on this forum, so I know you, but you don't know me. glad to have you back!
How do you know that joth didn't also read all games on this forum?
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Nice to meet you joth! I've read all the games on this forum, so I know you, but you don't know me. glad to have you back!
How do you know that joth didn't also read all games on this forum?
He told him in the scum QT, of course.
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And yet you're not voting for them?
Vote: ashersky
It feels good to do this again.
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Vote: ash
Early D1 wagons are good for Town. ash wagons are very good for Town.
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Nice to meet you joth! I've read all the games on this forum, so I know you, but you don't know me. glad to have you back!
How do you know that joth didn't also read all games on this forum?
Technically I haven't said that. Just that he doesn't know me
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vote: mcmcsalot, he's always scum
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I intend to run the game with an extra 24 hours for xmas day if that falls during a daytime, and a discretionary number of extra hours if it's night. Given that we have a willing sub list, I intend to be proactive in subbing out non-present players if they reach 24 hours without posting more than once in the game when they don't have an active VLA posted.
Please post your VLA times in this thread (in addition to anything you do in the VLA thread) at least 72 hours before the start of your intended VLA. This will allow all players to take better account of patchy availability, and will allow me to adjust deadlines as necessary.
I'll consider adding extra time if more than 1/3 (rounding up) of the alive players have a posted VLA in effect at the same time.
Also, please note that EFHW is now co-mod, which helps with the busy-mod situation over the next couple of weeks :-)
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Hello everyone. Let's have an active and civil game.
vote: ashersky
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Nice to meet you joth! I've read all the games on this forum, so I know you, but you don't know me. glad to have you back!
How do you know that joth didn't also read all games on this forum?
HA! I can barely get through games I'm actively participating in! LaLight if you really read all ~200 games on this forum I'm extremely impressed.
It is good to be back though. I really need to show my appreciation to Robz for bringing me back into the fold.
Vote: Robz
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Welcome back, sir! Vote: Jo
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Nice to meet you joth! I've read all the games on this forum, so I know you, but you don't know me. glad to have you back!
How do you know that joth didn't also read all games on this forum?
Technically I haven't said that. Just that he doesn't know me
But you implied that your having read his games makes it so that you know him, so does it not follow that him hypothetically having read all of your games would make him know you?
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Vote: Jimmmmm
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Nice to meet you joth! I've read all the games on this forum, so I know you, but you don't know me. glad to have you back!
How do you know that joth didn't also read all games on this forum?
Technically I haven't said that. Just that he doesn't know me
But you implied that your having read his games makes it so that you know him, so does it not follow that him hypothetically having read all of your games would make him know you?
Here's what I'm more interested. LaLight, if you've read all the games, you should be a very good scum hunter. Who's playing off-meta so far?
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vote: josh for asking this question too early. Smells like scared scum.
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*vote: joth
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vote: josh for asking this question too early. Smells like scared scum.
what... would scum!me be scared of at this point? Robz's obvious joke vote?
I don't think it's ever too early to start scumhunting and asking people for reads. RVS is boring.
Also, I think RVS is over? So far we have:
* ashersky's (I assume not totally serious) suggestion that Lalight and I are on a scum team together
* faust's vote on ashersky for FoSing us and not voting for us
* Jimmmmmm's vote on ashersky because he likes wagons
* your (silverspawn's) unexplained jumping on the ashersky wagon
* faust's unexplained vote for Jimmmmmm
* my joke vote for Robz
* Robz's joke (?) vote for me
* your (silverspawn's) vote for me for asking Lalight for a read before doing any scumhunting myself
That's a lot of real action, even ignoring some jokey votes!
The things on that list I find scummy so far:
- Jimmmm's ashersky vote
- silverspawn's ashersky vote
I actually don't mind silverspawn's vote for me, even though it's wrong and dumb. It's based on something, whereas Jimmmm's vote on ashersky is mindless wagonning is not. So I think I'll join faust in
vote: Jimmmmm
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I'd argue that liking early wagons is indeed pro-town and not based-on-nothing or scum-indicative.
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Vote: Silverspawn
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Also, Hi LaLight, Faust, everyone else! Good to be back. I'm trying to only commit to one game at a time and only occasionally, but I intend to join more in the next year too.
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I'd argue that liking early wagons is indeed pro-town and not based-on-nothing or scum-indicative.
So why did you vote for someone with 0 votes on them then?
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I'd argue that liking early wagons is indeed pro-town and not based-on-nothing or scum-indicative.
So why did you vote for someone with 0 votes on them then?
To make you ask that.
And because of how SS jumped on Joth.
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I'd argue that liking early wagons is indeed pro-town and not based-on-nothing or scum-indicative.
Can you (and Jimmmm I guess) explain this perspective?
I see Jimmm's action there (his only action in the game so far) and I see (potentially) scum wanting to look like they're participating without actually contributing or drawing too much attention, with the added bonus of possibly getting a lynch going ASAP. Getting on a wagon early is good for scum, since the FoS tends to fall on the late joiners and the hammerer.
But I'd love to hear the "wagons are protown" argument.
Also, I apologize if I'm rehashing old settled issues here. It's been a long time and I've probably forgotten a lot.
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I don't know if it's an old settled issue, I've been out of the loop too, and I'm not sure my views are often consensus anyway. Broadly the argument is that later-game wagon analysis has more to go on with more "serious" wagons, wagons that get up to L-1 or something and seeing who blinks and who doesn't, while small 3-vote wagons are more noise than signal.
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The things on that list I find scummy so far:
silverspawn's ashersky vote
So you actually think opening the game with an RVS vote is scummy?
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The things on that list I find scummy so far:
silverspawn's ashersky vote
So you actually think opening the game with an RVS vote is scummy?
No, I don't. But when your RVS vote is unexplained and happens to be on a person with 2 votes on them already, that raises an eyebrow.
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It raises an eyebrow if an RVS vote is unexplained? Aren't RVS votes by definition unexplained?
I placed it on ash because ash had 2 votes. Wagons is good.
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It raises an eyebrow if an RVS vote is unexplained? Aren't RVS votes by definition unexplained?
I placed it on ash because ash had 2 votes. Wagons is good.
How was your vote random if you placed it on ash for this particular reason?
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An RVS vote can be based on a joke, it can be based on a very flimsy case, or, apparently, it can be based on the idea that all wagons are good, which I still don't completely get, but it's pretty clear to me that it's a popular and uncontroversial opinion, so I guess I have to conclude it's not inherently scummy (unless Jim, silver, and Umbradge are all scum together). Still I'm leaving my vote where it is until Jimmmmm shows up and responds to this whole conversation.
Anyway, despite the name, I don't think very many RVS votes are truly random.
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Anyway, despite the name, I don't think very many RVS votes are truly random.
Vote: Dylan. Used RNG for "truly random" RVS target, rolled 12...
Unvote
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Yeah silver's last few posts sounded weird when I first read them, but I guess you can (and frequently do) have reasons for votes in RVS, so an RVS vote with an explanation isn't an oxymoron like I was thinking at first I guess.
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Hello!
This game is sporting quite the lineup! Joth, amazing to see you here again after all these years! I only just came back last year myself (thanks as well to Robz)!
My schedule for the next week and a half will be as it normally is - moderately present Monday-Friday, almost zero presence on Saturday/Sunday. I also don't expect that I'll be posting a whole ton on Christmas Eve / Christmas Day. Following the 25th I'm off work until January 4th, and while I may travel, I don't expect to be anywhere without access to internet for any extended period of time. After the 4th, schedule is back to normal for me.
PSA for those that don't know and to whom it may matter: DatSwan and I work together, so twinclaimsies there.
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With that out of the way:
Joth,
This is quite the response for such an early vote. Generally it's been my experience that a person using a "scum!me" perspective/narrative/argument/outlook isn't giving a tell - that is, it can come from both scum defending their actions or town genuinely believing that as scum they wouldn't do X (or in your case, "be scared of X").
The thing is, you don't have an established town or scum meta. And as your first game back, the only perspective you would have as town is from a town perspective. So it strikes me as odd that you would jump to a "scum!me" defense... especially so early in.
Also, from the same post:
Why was Jimmmm's unexplained vote for Ashersky bad, but faust's unexplained vote for Jimmmm good?
UoS:
Why are you concerned with who people jump on? More specifically, why do you care if somebody votes for Joth? Further, as faust points out, you claim in one post that wagons are pro-town, and then proceed to vote where there are 0 votes currently, instead of either of the two current wagons. Why?
Can you please detail for me your current read on Joth, and why?
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It raises an eyebrow if an RVS vote is unexplained? Aren't RVS votes by definition unexplained?
I placed it on ash because ash had 2 votes. Wagons is good.
How was your vote random if you placed it on ash for this particular reason?
It wasn't literally random, I used 'RVS' a bit more broadly.
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Why are you concerned with who people jump on? More specifically, why do you care if somebody votes for Joth? Further, as faust points out, you claim in one post that wagons are pro-town, and then proceed to vote where there are 0 votes currently, instead of either of the two current wagons. Why?
Can you please detail for me your current read on Joth, and why?
It's not the who, it's the how.
Joth's post that got SS' vote was a bit awkward, but in a way that to me seems more like potential-lynchbait-different than scum-different. I actually agree that it was a weird and kind of useless question but "smells like scared scum" is coming on awfully strong, and in a way that I do think is scummy.
I voted where my biggest scumread at the moment was, I never said I always vote for the biggest wagon, I just think that's a reasonable pro-town thing to do and specifically not an inherently scummy thing to do (re: Jimmmmmmmmm.) Also I wanted to see how people reacted to me saying X is towny... Y! but no one quite jumped on me the way I was hoping and now it's been discussed enough that whatever.
Currently I'm conflicted on Joth, averaging out to null. I'm not inclined to say more about that at this time, I want to see how he acts going forward. (NO PRESSURE JOTH)
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Are we really wanting people to vote more randomly in RVS? Is this somehow a thing?
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Why was Jimmmm's unexplained vote for Ashersky bad, but faust's unexplained vote for Jimmmm good?
My assumption was that faust's vote on Jimmmm was for the same reasons as mine -- quickly jumping on the first wagon he saw without contributing anything additional to the conversation.
I guess that's a big assumption, but given the timing of the vote, I thought it a fairly obvious explanation, so I didn't read the vote as unexplained or unmotivated.
This is quite the response for such an early vote. Generally it's been my experience that a person using a "scum!me" perspective/narrative/argument/outlook isn't giving a tell - that is, it can come from both scum defending their actions or town genuinely believing that as scum they wouldn't do X (or in your case, "be scared of X").
The thing is, you don't have an established town or scum meta. And as your first game back, the only perspective you would have as town is from a town perspective. So it strikes me as odd that you would jump to a "scum!me" defense... especially so early in.
I was just sort of trying to point out that silverspawn's comment about me being scared scum didn't really make any sense.
Re: my meta.
It's been a few years, but I do remember all the games I played in before, as scum and as town. It's all been coming back to me. In the past I wasn't very helpful day 1 (see my sig) but I think in this game I had so much pent-up excitement about getting started that I'm really throwing myself into it. Ż\_(ツ)_/Ż
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Are we really wanting people to vote more randomly in RVS? Is this somehow a thing?
Eh, I think the way we use RVS is to take it's generic meaning "To create a bunch of seemingly random points of interest" over it's literal meaning "To create a bunch of random points of interest".
As Joth puts it:
Anyway, despite the name, I don't think very many RVS votes are truly random.
RVS gets the game established, and creates a baseline for which to look back - regardless of any actual reasoning. There are small tells around RVS that I find useful later in the game as well, but explaining them in game would be anti-town. Still, in a game where information tends to be limited, rarely does town ever find themselves concerned with information overload, so the more content that can be created, the better.
Also, Vote: Robz for hating D1 and never participating. D1 is as useful, and often moreso than almost any other day as it establishes the baseline for the rest of the game to follow.
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Also, Vote: Robz for hating D1 and never participating. D1 is as useful, and often moreso than almost any other day as it establishes the baseline for the rest of the game to follow.
And the baseline you seek to establish is policy voting?
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Yeah, I'm on board with RVS, although I don't think I've ever cast a truly random vote and I suspect that's true of plenty of the rest too, and I think that's better. I'm with you on D1 being one of the most useful days.
I was more talking about Faust vs. SS.
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Why was Jimmmm's unexplained vote for Ashersky bad, but faust's unexplained vote for Jimmmm good?
My assumption was that faust's vote on Jimmmm was for the same reasons as mine -- quickly jumping on the first wagon he saw without contributing anything additional to the conversation.
I guess that's a big assumption, but given the timing of the vote, I thought it a fairly obvious explanation, so I didn't read the vote as unexplained or unmotivated.
* your (silverspawn's) unexplained jumping on the ashersky wagon
* faust's unexplained vote for Jimmmmmm
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The things on that list I find scummy so far:
- Jimmmm's ashersky vote
- silverspawn's ashersky vote
I messed up the names in my question: It should have read:
"Why was Silver's vote on Ashersky bad, but faust's vote on Jimmm good"?
In any case, what I found odd was that you listed both Silver's and Faust's vote as being "unexplained", but only found Silver scummy for it.
Now, in your follow up, you've said that you DIDN'T feel that faust's vote was unexplained. But that's exactly how you characterized your feelings on it at the time.
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Also, Vote: Robz for hating D1 and never participating. D1 is as useful, and often moreso than almost any other day as it establishes the baseline for the rest of the game to follow.
And the baseline you seek to establish is policy voting?
He's given me no reason to believe he's not scum. That can be said of others, too, mind you - but as Robz won't play D1 unless given a reason, yes, I'm perfectly content with that vote right now.
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I guess there's two ways to read the word "unexplained". It could mean "the person casting this vote didn't explain it" (unexplained1) or "there's no apparent explanation for it" (unexplained2). And I may have been using them a bit interchangeably. In the first half of the post, I was just focused on summarizing the action as unbiasedly as possible, so I was using "unexplained" for any vote that didn't come coupled with an explanation, which is all three votes. But to me, silver and Jimmm's votes for asher are unexplained in the other sense, whereas faust's isn't.
Unexplained1 is not necessarily scummy, though it easily could be.
I find unexplained 2 to be scummy, and here's why: Town should be voting for a person they think is scum and they should be doing it in such a way that other town players are encouraged to join them, in order to get that scum lynched. Voting for someone because they have a wagon isn't that. Voting for someone for no apparent reason isn't that.
Scum, on the other hand, wants to use their vote to facilitate a mislynch, and the sooner the better. Now of course you can WIFOM this all day and many of you are advanced players from whom I would expect more sophisticated scum play, but on balance when I see someone throwing their vote around without explanation, especially to run up an existing wagon, I'm suspicious. Especially on day 1 with nothing to go on.
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Note that since that post I've come to realize that this idea of informational wagons apparently has some currency, which changes my read. The fact that Umbrage, silver, and Jimmmm seem to think that voting for ashersky just to run up a wagon is pro-town, I have to reconsider my read on it as scummy, even though I'm still not really convinced. People have different ideas about what constitutes pro-town day 1 play and that doesn't make them scum.
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Why are you concerned with who people jump on? More specifically, why do you care if somebody votes for Joth? Further, as faust points out, you claim in one post that wagons are pro-town, and then proceed to vote where there are 0 votes currently, instead of either of the two current wagons. Why?
Can you please detail for me your current read on Joth, and why?
It's not the who, it's the how.
Joth's post that got SS' vote was a bit awkward, but in a way that to me seems more like potential-lynchbait-different than scum-different. I actually agree that it was a weird and kind of useless question but "smells like scared scum" is coming on awfully strong, and in a way that I do think is scummy.
Maybe if you hear my reasoning, you'll change your mind.
LaLight is said to have read every scum game. This is very unusual. joth has been absent for a while and is now coming back. It's easy to see how he could be nervous about someone knowing his meta, and I think "come on, tell me about what makes me scummy" is a very plausible thing for a scum player to do. On the other hand, the town motivation makes less sense, because there's no way LaLight has any solid read on anyone so far.
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I find unexplained 2 to be scummy, and here's why: Town should be voting for a person they think is scum and they should be doing it in such a way that other town players are encouraged to join them, in order to get that scum lynched. Voting for someone because they have a wagon isn't that. Voting for someone for no apparent reason isn't that.
Yeah, I don't think this is true. I rarely have a conscious mislynch in mind if I vote as scum, at least if it's day one. I think generally the scum motivation is "look good" and the town motivation is "be pro town" in whatever way.
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I don't subscribe to whatever reasons joth assumes I had for my Jimmmmm vote.
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the town motivation is "be pro town"
This is just a tautology. It doesn't mean anything. I'll buy that scum might not have a conscious motivation to mislynch but I think it's pretty uncontroversial to say that town motivation is "lynch scum". That's my motivation anyway.
I don't subscribe to whatever reasons joth assumes I had for my Jimmmmm vote.
Fair enough. Care to share your reasons?
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I don't subscribe to whatever reasons joth assumes I had for my Jimmmmm vote.
Fair enough. Care to share your reasons?
No.
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Also, Vote: Robz for hating D1 and never participating. D1 is as useful, and often moreso than almost any other day as it establishes the baseline for the rest of the game to follow.
And the baseline you seek to establish is policy voting?
He's given me no reason to believe he's not scum. That can be said of others, too, mind you - but as Robz won't play D1 unless given a reason, yes, I'm perfectly content with that vote right now.
Fair, but I am intending to play this day 1 anyway. I’m going to surprise you!
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vote: josh for asking this question too early. Smells like scared scum.
Vote: silverspawn since I don’t believe this is scummy and Joth is far more easily explained as energetic returning player than scared scum.
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Also, Vote: Robz for hating D1 and never participating. D1 is as useful, and often moreso than almost any other day as it establishes the baseline for the rest of the game to follow.
And the baseline you seek to establish is policy voting?
He's given me no reason to believe he's not scum. That can be said of others, too, mind you - but as Robz won't play D1 unless given a reason, yes, I'm perfectly content with that vote right now.
Fair, but I am intending to play this day 1 anyway. I’m going to surprise you!
I look forward to it!
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the town motivation is "be pro town"
This is just a tautology.
You are fortunate that Awaclus is not in the game, otherwise you'd quickly realize that it isn't a tautology.
But more importantly... I don't get why you say it doesn't mean anything. Being pro town is a fairly specific motivation to have. It can be used to distinguish town from scum. Being obvious doesn't make something meaningless.
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but I think it's pretty uncontroversial to say that town motivation is "lynch scum".
Ultimately, yes. But not necessarily as the immediate goal. The immediate goal could just be to cause activity or drama or reactions or whatever, without intending to lynch someone.
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Why are you concerned with who people jump on? More specifically, why do you care if somebody votes for Joth? Further, as faust points out, you claim in one post that wagons are pro-town, and then proceed to vote where there are 0 votes currently, instead of either of the two current wagons. Why?
Can you please detail for me your current read on Joth, and why?
It's not the who, it's the how.
Joth's post that got SS' vote was a bit awkward, but in a way that to me seems more like potential-lynchbait-different than scum-different. I actually agree that it was a weird and kind of useless question but "smells like scared scum" is coming on awfully strong, and in a way that I do think is scummy.
Maybe if you hear my reasoning, you'll change your mind.
LaLight is said to have read every scum game. This is very unusual. joth has been absent for a while and is now coming back. It's easy to see how he could be nervous about someone knowing his meta, and I think "come on, tell me about what makes me scummy" is a very plausible thing for a scum player to do. On the other hand, the town motivation makes less sense, because there's no way LaLight has any solid read on anyone so far.
I didn't ask him for solid reads. I asked him if anyone was playing off-meta so far. Which I think is a reasonable thing to ask someone who has read all the games. I absolutely think people can conform to or deviate from their meta in just a few posts. To give a completely hypothetical example, suppose faust's town meta was that he normally wrote long paragraphs explaining each vote. His vote for Jimmmmm with no explanation would then be off-meta.
Speaking of LaLight, they never really answered that question. And even if there wasn't enough info to answer it then, I suspect there is enough to answer it now.
I think "come on, tell me about what makes me scummy" is a very plausible thing for a scum player to do
I'm learning that you and I have very different ideas about how scum players think and act.
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Regardless of whether it was scummy, I still think answering it is clearly anti town. Wait until scum incriminated themselves, and then tell everyone what their scumtells are.
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Vote Count 1.1
ashersky (1): Jimmmmm
mcmcsalot (1): LaLight
Jimmmmm (2): faust, jotheonah
jotheonah (1): silverspawn
silverspawn (2): UmbrageOfSnow, Robz888
Robz888 (1): Galzria
Not Voting (4): mcmcsalot, DatSwan, ashersky, Dylan32
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
D1 ends at 11am Czech time (5am Forum Time) on Thursday 20th December.
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Wow ton of talking so far - i mean all about nonsense obviously but that is to be expected.
Lots of people i have not played with before - hello to all!
Great to have you! Feel free to call me Swan, and i am a “he”. Looks like Galz covered the twinsie claim so that’s that
People i have played with before - good to see you.
I will have limited access from Jan 3 - Jan 8. I will be around holiday time.
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I'd argue that liking early wagons is indeed pro-town and not based-on-nothing or scum-indicative.
Can you (and Jimmmm I guess) explain this perspective?
To get the game going. But if you talk about it it ruins it.
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I'd argue that liking early wagons is indeed pro-town and not based-on-nothing or scum-indicative.
Can you (and Jimmmm I guess) explain this perspective?
To get the game going. But if you talk about it it ruins it.
I think joth has done significantly more to get the game going than you so far.
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I'll be here soon.
I must warn you guys that my level of activity will be much lower than usual, you could notice that in games I was modding. Little bit life changing events
Talking about metas and me reading everything, I have usually quite bad reads. So far nothing really rubbed me in a wrong way, but I will reread everything closely at some time today
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I’m caught up, joth and silver looks strongly like town v town.
vote: datswan
Their “woah lots going on” feels like scum surprised by the amount of discussion vs town. Town is likely to be excited and specific versus scum who would be general and dismissive.
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Caught up.
I will be exclusively phone posting this game and probably be accessing once a day. So that’s that. If I have more time on. Particular day, I’ll try to contribute more.
I like the action so far, feels very three years ago. All the usual scum vibes from too jokey Galz, too friendly Robz, and too quiet Jimmmmmmm that we usually expect.
That said, Faust is scum here. Meta/serious vote.
vote: faust
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Also good to see mom salon!
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I'd argue that liking early wagons is indeed pro-town and not based-on-nothing or scum-indicative.
Can you (and Jimmmm I guess) explain this perspective?
To get the game going. But if you talk about it it ruins it.
See, this makes no sense to me. If a wagon is to be any use at all, it's so that it can be analyzed. To analyze a wagon usefully, you have to know who got on it for what reasons, so you can determine who's scum. So even accepting that early wagons are useful, I would think that a wagon that you don't discuss -- or that discussion would "ruin" -- would completely negate that usefulness.
Also, I should officially say now that the game is going: I will be V/LA from December 20th to December 29th, on my honeymoon in Germany. There may be a few times I can check in, but the priority has to be quality time with the wife! Hopefully, based on the schedule, some portion of that time will be night, which should mitigate the impact.
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I’m caught up, joth and silver looks strongly like town v town.
Can you explain what gives you this impression?
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Also, I should officially say now that the game is going: I will be V/LA from December 20th to December 29th, on my honeymoon in Germany. There may be a few times I can check in, but the priority has to be quality time with the wife! Hopefully, based on the schedule, some portion of that time will be night, which should mitigate the impact.
Cool! Where in Germany will you be?
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Also, Vote: Robz for hating D1 and never participating. D1 is as useful, and often moreso than almost any other day as it establishes the baseline for the rest of the game to follow.
And the baseline you seek to establish is policy voting?
He's given me no reason to believe he's not scum. That can be said of others, too, mind you - but as Robz won't play D1 unless given a reason, yes, I'm perfectly content with that vote right now.
Fair, but I am intending to play this day 1 anyway. I’m going to surprise you!
vote: josh for asking this question too early. Smells like scared scum.
Vote: silverspawn since I don’t believe this is scummy and Joth is far more easily explained as energetic returning player than scared scum.
For some reason this feels as alittlebitscummy!Robz. I can't point exactly why
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I’m caught up, joth and silver looks strongly like town v town.
vote: datswan
Their “woah lots going on” feels like scum surprised by the amount of discussion vs town. Town is likely to be excited and specific versus scum who would be general and dismissive.
This as well seems a little forced
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oh, caught up. I thought there's much more, don't know why. I sense a lot of undercover things by many players, that's cool, but talking about them would ruin it. This is really quite a lineup.
I think I'll stick to my mcmcsalot vote making it less random. Also eager to see what Robz is going to present this D1
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I will be strongly VLA from 30th to 2 (though will be posting) and less VLA till 9th, then no VLA at all
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Also, I should officially say now that the game is going: I will be V/LA from December 20th to December 29th, on my honeymoon in Germany. There may be a few times I can check in, but the priority has to be quality time with the wife! Hopefully, based on the schedule, some portion of that time will be night, which should mitigate the impact.
Cool! Where in Germany will you be?
Munich! I'm open to sightseeing suggestions via PM. :)
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That said, Faust is scum here. Meta/serious vote.
vote: faust
What makes you say that? I was reading slight town on faust.
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I’m caught up, joth and silver looks strongly like town v town.
Can you explain what gives you this impression?
It is a semantic argument where both players are kind of restating their own opinions without addressing/breaking down the other persons argument which I think is towny. Scum argues with the intent of painting the other player as scummy and they are arguing to get to a point of information.
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I’m caught up, joth and silver looks strongly like town v town.
vote: datswan
Their “woah lots going on” feels like scum surprised by the amount of discussion vs town. Town is likely to be excited and specific versus scum who would be general and dismissive.
This as well seems a little forced
But do you disagree with my thought?
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I’m caught up, joth and silver looks strongly like town v town.
vote: datswan
Their “woah lots going on” feels like scum surprised by the amount of discussion vs town. Town is likely to be excited and specific versus scum who would be general and dismissive.
This as well seems a little forced
But do you disagree with my thought?
I do, actually. There was a lot of posts, when he came, No matter what alignment a person is, they could say woah it's a lot of posts for numerous reasons. Why would scum be surprised about the amount of townies discussion? There's more town people than there's scums. Even given that town would be more specific which is also not really true, or it would be really easy to catch scums.
All in all looks like you tried to develop a read out of nowhere
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Mcmc is doing his "I am town" analysis of other players, which is good. It means he's town!
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Look at me, starting conversations of my own volition. I think I should just get the MVP nod right now.
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Look at me, starting conversations of my own volition. I think I should just get the MVP nod right now.
It feels weird not scumreading you and it's making me uncomfortable.
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That said, Faust is scum here. Meta/serious vote.
vote: faust
What makes you say that? I was reading slight town on faust.
A “slight town” reading on Faust is exactly what scum!faust exudes, actually.
Also, I think that while he can always be abrasive, there town!abrasive and scum!abrasive modes that he can’t necessarily control.
I also generally pay attention to how many “?” he has in his posts. The more the scummmier.
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We really have to give Faust a day 1 pass, at any rate. Let’s not do scum’s job for them. If he’s alive tomorrow—something that quite literally almost never happens—I’ll reconsider.
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I’m caught up, joth and silver looks strongly like town v town.
vote: datswan
Their “woah lots going on” feels like scum surprised by the amount of discussion vs town. Town is likely to be excited and specific versus scum who would be general and dismissive.
I’m OMGUSing you for being lazy... which is in itself lazy.. but I’m doing it anyways.
Vote: MCMC
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We really have to give Faust a day 1 pass, at any rate. Let’s not do scum’s job for them. If he’s alive tomorrow—something that quite literally almost never happens—I’ll reconsider.
This feels lining-up-future-mislynches scummy.
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Rereading now. I’m really happy to see that “twinclaim” is still in the vernacular. I was the original twinclaim that spawned the term (though I wasn’t the one who coined it).
Anyway based on my reread I’m kind of OK with my current vote on Jimmm. He’s been just present enough to not get lurker suspicion but absent enough to not get much attention of any other kind. He’s been quick to vote and talk theory but hasn’t really offered any reads or anything of substance.
On another note: Robz, why should Faust, or anyone, get a day 1 pass?
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Vote: DatSwan for a reason that I'm not gonna share right now.
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Anyway based on my reread I’m kind of OK with my current vote on Jimmm. He’s been just present enough to not get lurker suspicion but absent enough to not get much attention of any other kind. He’s been quick to vote and talk theory but hasn’t really offered any reads or anything of substance.
Question for you: In my ash vote post I gave a theory reason (wagons are good) and a player-specific reason (wagons on ash are good). Why did you engage with the theory reason but not the player-specific reason?
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Vote: Dylan
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We really have to give Faust a day 1 pass, at any rate. Let’s not do scum’s job for them. If he’s alive tomorrow—something that quite literally almost never happens—I’ll reconsider.
This feels lining-up-future-mislynches scummy.
which is one of these things that scum never does.
I don't scumread joth anymore, really at all. Let's vote: DarSwan
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Anyway based on my reread I’m kind of OK with my current vote on Jimmm. He’s been just present enough to not get lurker suspicion but absent enough to not get much attention of any other kind. He’s been quick to vote and talk theory but hasn’t really offered any reads or anything of substance.
Question for you: In my ash vote post I gave a theory reason (wagons are good) and a player-specific reason (wagons on ash are good). Why did you engage with the theory reason but not the player-specific reason?
I gotta read closer. I actually had to go back and look to see what you were talking about. Quote, for convenience:
Vote: ash
Early D1 wagons are good for Town. ash wagons are very good for Town.
I guess I thought it was a glib RVS thing. Like you were jumping on the wagon for a theory reason and also just teasing ash about some meta thing. I have a hunch I might know what you and Umbrage were getting at when you said talking about it ruined it. So .... sorry if I ruined it.
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Rereading now. I’m really happy to see that “twinclaim” is still in the vernacular. I was the original twinclaim that spawned the term (though I wasn’t the one who coined it).
Anyway based on my reread I’m kind of OK with my current vote on Jimmm. He’s been just present enough to not get lurker suspicion but absent enough to not get much attention of any other kind. He’s been quick to vote and talk theory but hasn’t really offered any reads or anything of substance.
On another note: Robz, why should Faust, or anyone, get a day 1 pass?
Well, Faust is arguably the strongest town player in our party, and scum kill him Night 1 in what seems like a majority of games. So he is sort of a special case.
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We really have to give Faust a day 1 pass, at any rate. Let’s not do scum’s job for them. If he’s alive tomorrow—something that quite literally almost never happens—I’ll reconsider.
This feels lining-up-future-mislynches scummy.
It isn’t and it doesn’t
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Well, Faust is arguably the strongest town player in our party.
I guess I’ll take your for that for now.
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Well, Faust is arguably the strongest town player in our party, and scum kill him Night 1 in what seems like a majority of games. So he is sort of a special case.
A survey of recent games I participated in:
M119: I'm town, killed N1.
M118: I'm town, killed N1.
NM12: I'm town, scum never kills anybody lol
RMM49: I'm town, lynched D5.
M116: I'm town, killed N1.
M115: I'm town, and killed N1.
M113: I'm scum, living through to the end.
RMM42: I'm town and live to the end. [scum NK was nerfed]
M111: I'm town, killed N1.
NM11: I'm town, killed N1.
RMM46: I'm town, killed N1.
So out of my last 10 town games, I've been nightkilled N1 7 times, one game never saw any scum nightkill, and another had a nerfed NK for scum.
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jeez. At some point you have to conclude the scum are doing it on purpose just for the memes.
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NM12: I'm town, scum never kills anybody lol
That was a good game.
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jeez. At some point you have to conclude the scum are doing it on purpose just for the memes.
It's often because he's legitimately good at being town!
On the other end of the spectrum, I'm never night killed, unless I'm a PR or something.
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At work until 8EST - will catch up then
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I love how towny people are being right now
Vote: Dylan
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Vote: DatSwan for a reason that I'm not gonna share right now.
when you feel like telling us which of my 2 total posts so far hit you as skummy - plz let us know.
This feels like you trying to shift onto a wagon with no reason so you can make one up later.
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We really have to give Faust a day 1 pass, at any rate. Let’s not do scum’s job for them. If he’s alive tomorrow—something that quite literally almost never happens—I’ll reconsider.
This feels lining-up-future-mislynches scummy.
which is one of these things that scum never does.
I don't scumread joth anymore, really at all. Let's vote: DarSwan
I am no pirate! (mis-typed my name in the vote)
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I would love a vote count. Some of these wagons are starting to feel real.
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Swan Count:
ashersky (1): Jimmmmm
mcmcsalot (1): LaLight
Swan (3): MCMC, Dylan, Silver,
Faust (1): Ashes
MCMC (1): Swan
Dylan (2): Faust, Snow
Jimmmmm (1): , jotheonah
silverspawn (1): , Robz888
Robz888 (1): Galzria
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Also after finally having time to sit down and read I am at the same point I always am on D1s... which is like no where.... but MCMC's original thing I talked about still seems strange to me so I am staying there for now.
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Thanks DatSwan but you have mcmc twice on yours. So it’s more like:
ashersky (1): Jimmmmm
mcmcsalot (2): LaLight, DatSwan
Jimmmmm (1):, jotheonah
silverspawn (1): Robz888
Robz888 (1): Galzria
DatSwan (3): mcmcsalot, Dylan, silver
faust (1): ashersky
Dylan (2): faust, Umbrage
So only L-4. Anybody want to try and sway me to either the Dylan or DatSwan wagons? Both seem possibly scummy to me.
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I feel like having trouble getting Day 1 reads tends to be a self-fulfilling prophecy: people who talk a lot about lack of information Day 1 have trouble seeing information worth voting over on Day 1, I think in large part because they don't think they can find it.
No, Day 1 cases don't have as much behind them as later day cases, but they aren't based on nothing.
I love that these are the wagons, while I think Dylan is more likely to be scum, I have no reason to think you are town, DatSwan, and I have a mess of townreads.
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Joth:
We really have to give Faust a day 1 pass, at any rate. Let’s not do scum’s job for them. If he’s alive tomorrow—something that quite literally almost never happens—I’ll reconsider.
This feels lining-up-future-mislynches scummy.
Dylan doesn't follow this up with a vote, he votes for Swan instead, almost certainly an easier fight than Robz (no offense Swan), plus the lining-up-future-mislynches thing is an easy argument to make to be seen to be having reads while not really being a thing, basically any comments about future days can be lining up mislynches.
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Vote Count 1.2
ashersky (1): Jimmmmm
mcmcsalot (1): LaLight
jotheonah (1): silverspawn
Jimmmmm (1): jotheonah
Robz888 (1): Galzria
silverspawn (1): Robz888
DatSwan (2): mcmcsalot, Dylan32
faust (1): ashersky
Dylan32 (2): faust, UmbrageOfSnow
Not Voting (1): DatSwan
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
D1 ends at 11am Czech time (5am Forum Time) on Thursday 20th December.
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There are some discrepancies between my vote count and the official one. Possibly because “Darswan” wasn’t counted.
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Thanks DatSwan but you have mcmc twice on yours. So it’s more like:
ashersky (1): Jimmmmm
mcmcsalot (2): LaLight, DatSwan
Jimmmmm (1):, jotheonah
silverspawn (1): Robz888
Robz888 (1): Galzria
DatSwan (3): mcmcsalot, Dylan, silver
faust (1): ashersky
Dylan (2): faust, Umbrage
So only L-4. Anybody want to try and sway me to either the Dylan or DatSwan wagons? Both seem possibly scummy to me.
Unintentional sorry - i did it by hand.
Is there a reason you think i am skummy other than lack of participation thus far?
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There are some discrepancies between my vote count and the official one. Possibly because “Darswan” wasn’t counted.
Also silver isn’t on me bc they spelled my name wrong in vote. I am “attempted” at (3)
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Joth:
We really have to give Faust a day 1 pass, at any rate. Let’s not do scum’s job for them. If he’s alive tomorrow—something that quite literally almost never happens—I’ll reconsider.
This feels lining-up-future-mislynches scummy.
Dylan doesn't follow this up with a vote, he votes for Swan instead, almost certainly an easier fight than Robz (no offense Swan), plus the lining-up-future-mislynches thing is an easy argument to make to be seen to be having reads while not really being a thing, basically any comments about future days can be lining up mislynches.
No offense taken - i don’t think we have played together before. Once i get into it you will wish i would just stfu. Savor the silence.
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I feel like having trouble getting Day 1 reads tends to be a self-fulfilling prophecy: people who talk a lot about lack of information Day 1 have trouble seeing information worth voting over on Day 1, I think in large part because they don't think they can find it.
No, Day 1 cases don't have as much behind them as later day cases, but they aren't based on nothing.
I love that these are the wagons, while I think Dylan is more likely to be scum, I have no reason to think you are town, DatSwan, and I have a mess of townreads.
Don’t answer this just consider the question - who do you currently actually consider to be town rn? This comment is just giving you the quote option to go back and vote for either of us. Which is messing with my growing sr on dylan
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Ok, I can give a brief reason for my vote, without saying exactly what I was looking for. The vote wasn't based on anything Swan had said this game. He is one of the people that I played with in my last game. I had a pretty strong read that was fortunately right last game, so I wanted to look for something here. I've seen enough that it is now actually a scumread, but I'm not gonna say what it is cuz it would only help scum you.
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I would love a vote count. Some of these wagons are starting to feel real.
When I read this I suddenly remembered I dream I had tonight ( just woke up ). I was reading this game and there was no vote count in a while, so I wanted to post one. I have this tool that automates them, but I think there are players in here that i don't know yet, so I was going to check into the file of player names and nicknames. Before I opened it I was like "it would suck if this file was lost somehow, I'm going to make a backup copy right now"; then I opened it and it the content was already lost, somehow :'(
This clearly proves that I'm town because I subconsciously wanted to be helpful.
Anyway. Space uses a similar tool which is why votes won't be detected if they're misspelled. But now I actually like vote: Dylan32 better. Their avatar looks like theiy're hiding something.
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Anyway. Space uses a similar tool which is why votes won't be detected if they're misspelled. But now I actually like vote: Dylan32 better. Their avatar looks like theiy're hiding something.
Going by avatars, I would vote joth. He seems like he's presenting himself as something he's not.
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Ok, I can give a brief reason for my vote, without saying exactly what I was looking for. The vote wasn't based on anything Swan had said this game. He is one of the people that I played with in my last game. I had a pretty strong read that was fortunately right last game, so I wanted to look for something here. I've seen enough that it is now actually a scumread, but I'm not gonna say what it is cuz it would only help scum you.
So you think whatever it is you found wil help scum!Swan (why? If it's a scumtell, it seems he apparently gave it away) but it will do nothing to help the rest of town seeing that Swan is scum?
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You can share the scumtell...it’s sort of fair play to only use it once against a player.
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Anyway. Space uses a similar tool which is why votes won't be detected if they're misspelled. But now I actually like vote: Dylan32 better. Their avatar looks like theiy're hiding something.
Going by avatars, I would vote joth. He seems like he's presenting himself as something he's not.
My job is trending more and more toward Bureaucrat every promotion.
Oh wait, you meant the Robz disguise. I think I changed that a long time ago for that bastard game where we were all robz and never changed it back.
Ok, I can give a brief reason for my vote, without saying exactly what I was looking for. The vote wasn't based on anything Swan had said this game. He is one of the people that I played with in my last game. I had a pretty strong read that was fortunately right last game, so I wanted to look for something here. I've seen enough that it is now actually a scumread, but I'm not gonna say what it is cuz it would only help scum you.
So you think whatever it is you found wil help scum!Swan (why? If it's a scumtell, it seems he apparently gave it away) but it will do nothing to help the rest of town seeing that Swan is scum?
Yeah Dylan, I think you should tell us what you have at this point. To give you a little additional incentive:
Vote: Dylan
I find the case Umbrage gave to be convincing. I do not approve of avatar-based voting.
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I was coming here to vote for Dylan even before this recent activity. Vote: Dylan
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Ok, that’s L-2. What’s our policy on claims?
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Ok, that’s L-2. What’s our policy on claims?
Well, we should let Dylan claim if he gets to L-1. Hammering him without giving opportunity for this would be extremely scummy.
I am a fan of short Day 1s, though I am pretty much alone in this.
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It’s really nice that we don’t seem to have any straight up lurkers in this town. But I would like to hear more form LaLight and mcmc and Galz about how things stand as of now.
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Ok, so as town last game, as far as I remember the only time DatSwan directly responded to a vote on himself was the like the last one of the game when he was thinking the person who cast the vote was the leading wagon and seemed at that point most likely to be the final scum. Town!swan seemed to just ignore the votes or pressure while, Swan here pretty directly and quickly pushed back almost immediately with both votes. I will grant the very beginning of the last game could have been more busy irl for Swan, cuz they weren't exactly around a ton early on, but later on the pattern held. Considering I've played 3 games or less with probably half of this lineup, that's as strong of a grounds as I have for any scumread so far.
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Didn't really want to share that until we got a bigger sample this game since 3 votes isn't exactly conclusive, but whatever.
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I am a fan of short Day 1s, though I am pretty much alone in this.
I'm with you on this, although I wasn't always I think. We shouldn't always wait until deadline, and that tends to be a very strong impulse.
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It’s really nice that we don’t seem to have any straight up lurkers in this town. But I would like to hear more form LaLight and mcmc and Galz about how things stand as of now.
Yeah, I'm waiting for their promised catchup posts, and I do think it would be bad to end the day before that point.
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It’s really nice that we don’t seem to have any straight up lurkers in this town. But I would like to hear more form LaLight and mcmc and Galz about how things stand as of now.
Yeah, I'm waiting for their promised catchup posts, and I do think it would be bad to end the day before that point.
I take it that Dylan's explanation hasn't swayed you?
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As far as D1 cases go, not bad at all.
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As far as D1 cases go, not bad at all.
Dylan's case on Datswan, you mean?
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Ok, so as town last game, as far as I remember the only time DatSwan directly responded to a vote on himself was the like the last one of the game when he was thinking the person who cast the vote was the leading wagon and seemed at that point most likely to be the final scum. Town!swan seemed to just ignore the votes or pressure while, Swan here pretty directly and quickly pushed back almost immediately with both votes. I will grant the very beginning of the last game could have been more busy irl for Swan, cuz they weren't exactly around a ton early on, but later on the pattern held. Considering I've played 3 games or less with probably half of this lineup, that's as strong of a grounds as I have for any scumread so far.
I wasn't the other wagon at the end of the game. It was Joseph and MCMC and I was pushing Awaclus. Also, even if it was me, you are attempted to compare a Day 4 play to a Day 1 play... which, in your words, is kind of weak.
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Vote: DatSwan
This is looking more and more like a better lynch.
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Vote Count 1.3
ashersky (1): Jimmmmm
mcmcsalot (1): LaLight
Robz888 (1): Galzria
DatSwan (3): mcmcsalot, Dylan32, jotheonah
faust (1): ashersky
Dylan32 (4): faust, UmbrageOfSnow, silverspawn, Robz888
Not Voting (1): DatSwan
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
D1 ends at 11am Czech time (5am Forum Time) on Thursday 20th December.
NOTE: Three votes have been rejected by my vote counter so far: "josh", "DarSwan" and "MCMC". The last is arguable, though I think it's definitely weird to all-caps-ify a nickname based on a name that has no upper-case characters. I have just been mulling over adding it to the alias list, but to do so now would make VCs 1.2 incorrect/inconsistent with VC1.3, so I'm not going to.
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Vote: DatSwan
This is looking more and more like a better lynch.
I disagree. Why do you think that.
When did you first start thinking I would be a good lynch, and what happened since that point to make you think it is a better idea now?
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Vote: DatSwan
This is looking more and more like a better lynch.
I disagree. Why do you think that.
When did you first start thinking I would be a good lynch, and what happened since that point to make you think it is a better idea now?
The case against Dylan was based on a comment about Robz that was followed up by an unexplained vote on you. He's explained that vote now and it makes sense to me, as does his reason for not explaining it. So I've soured on that wagon.
Meanwhile, I've found that cases based on defensiveness -- especially off-meta defensiveness -- are often good day one cases. Playing the game as scum is just more stressful, the stakes are higher if you get lynched, and it's hard to resist fighting against every vote against you and feeling like you're in more danger than you actually are -- even if you're aware of the possibility that it's a tell. Which isn't to say that town don't get defensive too, especially at 4 or 5 votes, but scum are, on balance, more likely to get more defensive sooner.
And then when I look back at your posts, as Umbrage said, I have no particular reason to believe you're town.
And then there's this response to Dylan's case:
Ok, so as town last game, as far as I remember the only time DatSwan directly responded to a vote on himself was the like the last one of the game when he was thinking the person who cast the vote was the leading wagon and seemed at that point most likely to be the final scum. Town!swan seemed to just ignore the votes or pressure while, Swan here pretty directly and quickly pushed back almost immediately with both votes. I will grant the very beginning of the last game could have been more busy irl for Swan, cuz they weren't exactly around a ton early on, but later on the pattern held. Considering I've played 3 games or less with probably half of this lineup, that's as strong of a grounds as I have for any scumread so far.
I wasn't the other wagon at the end of the game. It was Joseph and MCMC and I was pushing Awaclus. Also, even if it was me, you are attempted to compare a Day 4 play to a Day 1 play... which, in your words, is kind of weak.
Now I'm not familiar with the game in question, and perhaps my next step should be to look over it. But even without that knowledge to me, your reply seems like a willful misunderstanding of his case. Dylan isn't "comparing a Day 4 play to a Day 1 play". He's saying that in that game, as town, you didn't react to a vote on you UNTIL Day 4. So he's comparing Day 1 play there to Day 1 play here, and only referring to Day 4 to emphasize his point, but you're twisting it up to make his case seem worse than it actually is. Which is a scummy way to defend yourself.
On a similar note, you say "I wasn't the other wagon at the end of the game." But Dylan didn't say you were. He said "the only time DatSwan directly responded to a vote on himself was the like the last one of the game when he was thinking the person who cast the vote was the leading wagon." So again, not refuting what he said but mischaracterizing it.
I think I'm going to go browse that game -- Towny Mafia, right? -- and see if I agree with Dylan's characterization or with yours.
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So I am not going to go back and quote post every single game that refutes the concept of me directly dealing with cases made on me when I am Town. But in the previous 4 games I have been skum and town. In the instances where I was Town, here are the two games where I do the exactly what Dylan is claiming I would not do as town. Feel free to read back on me all the way to M105 (first game)... it is littered with continuing support of this.
1) M118 - I am Town. Galz votes for me and I immediately engage him in a lengthy 1-on-1, which includes me voting for him.
vote: Datswan
2) M117 - I am Town. This is the beginning of Day 2 where a case is attempting to be built on me and I directly refute it all the way from the start, up until my mis-lynch.
Wasn’t asked or me so i am not answering the question per se - but i would like to point out this is a faulty silogism. One could absolutely assume that “if player A flips skum, they also think it makes Player B look skummy, while simotainiously assuming if Player A flips town it does not mean anything in regards to Player B.”
No. You can absolutely not correctly do this, under no circumstances, never ever ever ever. if A coming true is evidence for B, then A coming false must be evidence against B. This is provable from first principles. See here.. (https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/jiBFC7DcCrZjGmZnJ/conservation-of-expected-evidence)
This is a game with interactions and variables. Every interaction is at a minimum a two way street. It is not a math problem. I am not arguing with you’re defn of the theory, just the application of it here.
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Vote: DatSwan
This is looking more and more like a better lynch.
I disagree. Why do you think that.
When did you first start thinking I would be a good lynch, and what happened since that point to make you think it is a better idea now?
The case against Dylan was based on a comment about Robz that was followed up by an unexplained vote on you. He's explained that vote now and it makes sense to me, as does his reason for not explaining it. So I've soured on that wagon.
Meanwhile, I've found that cases based on defensiveness -- especially off-meta defensiveness -- are often good day one cases. Playing the game as scum is just more stressful, the stakes are higher if you get lynched, and it's hard to resist fighting against every vote against you and feeling like you're in more danger than you actually are -- even if you're aware of the possibility that it's a tell. Which isn't to say that town don't get defensive too, especially at 4 or 5 votes, but scum are, on balance, more likely to get more defensive sooner.
And then when I look back at your posts, as Umbrage said, I have no particular reason to believe you're town.
And then there's this response to Dylan's case:
Ok, so as town last game, as far as I remember the only time DatSwan directly responded to a vote on himself was the like the last one of the game when he was thinking the person who cast the vote was the leading wagon and seemed at that point most likely to be the final scum. Town!swan seemed to just ignore the votes or pressure while, Swan here pretty directly and quickly pushed back almost immediately with both votes. I will grant the very beginning of the last game could have been more busy irl for Swan, cuz they weren't exactly around a ton early on, but later on the pattern held. Considering I've played 3 games or less with probably half of this lineup, that's as strong of a grounds as I have for any scumread so far.
I wasn't the other wagon at the end of the game. It was Joseph and MCMC and I was pushing Awaclus. Also, even if it was me, you are attempted to compare a Day 4 play to a Day 1 play... which, in your words, is kind of weak.
Now I'm not familiar with the game in question, and perhaps my next step should be to look over it. But even without that knowledge to me, your reply seems like a willful misunderstanding of his case. Dylan isn't "comparing a Day 4 play to a Day 1 play". He's saying that in that game, as town, you didn't react to a vote on you UNTIL Day 4. So he's comparing Day 1 play there to Day 1 play here, and only referring to Day 4 to emphasize his point, but you're twisting it up to make his case seem worse than it actually is. Which is a scummy way to defend yourself.
On a similar note, you say "I wasn't the other wagon at the end of the game." But Dylan didn't say you were. He said "the only time DatSwan directly responded to a vote on himself was the like the last one of the game when he was thinking the person who cast the vote was the leading wagon." So again, not refuting what he said but mischaracterizing it.
I think I'm going to go browse that game -- Towny Mafia, right? -- and see if I agree with Dylan's characterization or with yours.
please read PPE post. If you need more games I can bring them up it if absolutely required, but I would appreciate it if you could just do it yourself.
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Alright. I just skimmed M119. And it took me 40 minutes, so sorry, I'm not going to skim M118 and M117 too. I'm not LaLight.
(Speaking of which prod request: lalight-- he hasn't posted since the 14th at 11 am)
But looking at M119, Dylan's case is accurate, if a bit misleading. DatSwan basically never defends himself all game, but also he doesn't get voted for all game more than a handful of times, and as far as I can tell never had two votes on him at once.
Nonetheless, I think I'm comfortable with my vote. His town play in that game feels very different than his play in this game in more ways than just defensiveness or lack thereof. And he has not addressed the substance of my last post, despite quoting it.
Like I said, I'm not going to go down the rabbit hole of rereading every game DatSwan has been in, but those of you who have been around for more of them, I'll certainly listen if you think I'm off base. I am going to shut up for a while and let other people catch up and respond.
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Alright. I just skimmed M119. And it took me 40 minutes, so sorry, I'm not going to skim M118 and M117 too. I'm not LaLight.
(Speaking of which prod request: lalight-- he hasn't posted since the 14th at 11 am)
But looking at M119, Dylan's case is accurate, if a bit misleading. DatSwan basically never defends himself all game, but also he doesn't get voted for all game more than a handful of times, and as far as I can tell never had two votes on him at once.
Nonetheless, I think I'm comfortable with my vote. His town play in that game feels very different than his play in this game in more ways than just defensiveness or lack thereof. And he has not addressed the substance of my last post, despite quoting it.
Like I said, I'm not going to go down the rabbit hole of rereading every game DatSwan has been in, but those of you who have been around for more of them, I'll certainly listen if you think I'm off base. I am going to shut up for a while and let other people catch up and respond.
I’ve been around for all of them - you should listen to me.
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Also you said it yourself - i never defended myself bc i was never threatened with actually being lynched. When i responded to this i had half the votes on me already since i last logged in and had zero. Who wouldn’t defend themselves?
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Also you said it yourself - i never defended myself bc i was never threatened with actually being lynched. When i responded to this i had half the votes on me already since i last logged in and had zero. Who wouldn’t defend themselves?
Actually, you only had one vote on you (mcmc), then you self-admitedly OMGUSed him "for being lazy," and then a few posts later and I voted, and you responded to my vote also. You could argue that mcmc's one vote there didn't really have you in any danger, so why respond at all, or at least why feel the need to call out the vote as lazy and return the favor? So you can't say you woke up and suddenly had a lot more votes on you before you responded.
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To be clear, I was just referring to this game, not the last one.
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There's also a difference between responding to a vote that doesn't have or doesn't seem like it has much to it (which is where I admittedly should have just kept my mouth shut and voted without saying anything at all) and rebutting an actual stated case. I think most people would react to specific cases against them, but as scum would feel more pressure to react to every (or at least most) vote(s). I'm not claiming every scum would do that, mind you, but the pressure would likely still be there in the back of their mind moreso than in their town games.
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Nonetheless, I think I'm comfortable with my vote. His town play in that game feels very different than his play in this game in more ways than just defensiveness or lack thereof. And he has not addressed the substance of my last post, despite quoting it.
Which ways?
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Meanwhile, I've found that cases based on defensiveness -- especially off-meta defensiveness -- are often good day one cases.
I strongly disagree. Being defensive and challenging votes helps keep the game active and is good pro-town play. I have seen scum trying to ignore votes on them way more often because they don't want to draw additional attention to themselves. Plus I support DatSwan in that this isn't off-meta for him.
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Hi guys, sorry for the weekends, signature alert
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I'm sorry, but I feel like both Dylan and DatSwan wagons are misleading
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looking at the players list it seems to me we have a real strong scumteam. And actually that said, I'd like to vote: ash if mcmc's wagon for some reason doesn't gain support. You should've done it at least for pressure, guys, mcmc's play this Day is so suspicious
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I think this is quite transparent why I am voting ash
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looking at the players list it seems to me we have a real strong scumteam. And actually that said, I'd like to vote: ash if mcmc's wagon for some reason doesn't gain support. You should've done it at least for pressure, guys, mcmc's play this Day is so suspicious
How does the player list suggest a strong scumteam to you? Can you also detail what you mean about mcmc? I'm afraid your original post didn't quite convince me:
vote: mcmcsalot, he's always scum
And is there another reason to vote for ash beside your assertion that there is a strong scumteam?
PPE: Not to me.
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looking at the players list it seems to me we have a real strong scumteam. And actually that said, I'd like to vote: ash if mcmc's wagon for some reason doesn't gain support. You should've done it at least for pressure, guys, mcmc's play this Day is so suspicious
How does the player list suggest a strong scumteam to you? Can you also detail what you mean about mcmc? I'm afraid your original post didn't quite convince me:
vote: mcmcsalot, he's always scum
And is there another reason to vote for ash beside your assertion that there is a strong scumteam?
PPE: Not to me.
I think mcmc's initial vote for DatSwan was forced as if he was trying to participate seriously taking the RVS post and making it a scumread.
See:
I’m caught up, joth and silver looks strongly like town v town.
vote: datswan
Their “woah lots going on” feels like scum surprised by the amount of discussion vs town. Town is likely to be excited and specific versus scum who would be general and dismissive.
This as well seems a little forced
But do you disagree with my thought?
I do, actually. There was a lot of posts, when he came, No matter what alignment a person is, they could say woah it's a lot of posts for numerous reasons. Why would scum be surprised about the amount of townies discussion? There's more town people than there's scums. Even given that town would be more specific which is also not really true, or it would be really easy to catch scums.
All in all looks like you tried to develop a read out of nowhere
I am voting for ash, because he didn't come up with some crazy plan still and overall his posts lack content, as for I usually remember of ash.
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How does the player list suggest a strong scumteam to you?
well, I am not scum. All the oher players in the list are very strong players, especially when scums: (here I sterted listing everyone I am afraid to be scum and then I just copied the whole list). That's the reason. Of course it makes town strong as well, but I feel like there is such a huge amount of WIFOM that it's actually isn't worth to talk about, but I am answering your question
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I'm sorry, but I feel like both Dylan and DatSwan wagons are misleading
Agreed. I'm not buying into any of the cases that have been made so far, including my own.
vote: ash
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hey all. Just popping in to say that I'm going to need to stay away for probably all day today. Too much to do at work to fall into the forum mafia wormhole.
Nonetheless, I think I'm comfortable with my vote. His town play in that game feels very different than his play in this game in more ways than just defensiveness or lack thereof. And he has not addressed the substance of my last post, despite quoting it.
Which ways?
I'll just do this now because I hate to leave direct questions to me unanswered.
He just reads completely different. In that game, he pops in very occasionally, but whenever he does it's to do some serious high-effort scumhunting posts. This game his posts were mostly low-effort contentless posts until he started defending himself, when his posts started to get long and intricate and frequent. Skim it yourself and see.
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This is my own setup. It’s specifically made to resist town plans.
Also, lack of content was announced from the beginning. I’m a different player nowadays, activity/life wise.
Re: Robz, yes.
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Also, scum points for LL for the lazy “no plan” vote.
vote: ss for the even lazier follow.
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I think this is quite transparent why I am voting ash
Why did you write this rather than an explanation of your vote?
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I think this is quite transparent why I am voting ash
Why did you write this rather than an explanation of your vote?
well, because it's always better to withhold information to draw any kind of reactions rather than just saying things, in my opinion
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I think this is quite transparent why I am voting ash
Why did you write this rather than an explanation of your vote?
well, because it's always better to withhold information to draw any kind of reactions rather than just saying things, in my opinion
So how do you think our little exchange where you withheld the information only to reveal it in literally your next post helped the town effort? I know that withholding information can be good, but I don't understand why you think that would apply in this case.
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I think this is quite transparent why I am voting ash
Why did you write this rather than an explanation of your vote?
well, because it's always better to withhold information to draw any kind of reactions rather than just saying things, in my opinion
So how do you think our little exchange where you withheld the information only to reveal it in literally your next post helped the town effort? I know that withholding information can be good, but I don't understand why you think that would apply in this case.
Well, my little plan was for someone to play along (that’s why there was really some rason behind my words) and maybe make ash nervous and see the reaction, but when I got a direct question, i thought it would be much better just to answer it so the point is moot.
vote: mcmc
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Right right I shouldn't blindly follow LaLight's vote on ash. vote: mcmc. See, I did better!
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I’m caught up. I agree that datswans defensiveness has felt scummy. But Faust’s post about scum wanting to not combat votes they receive is very true, it happens all the time. I don’t like how quickly the Dylan wagon grew and for the reasons. It was almost a mix of scum reads and pressure votes to reveal his datswan scum tell.
I really want to vote lalight which means he’s probably town.
Actually vote: silverspawn I don’t like his Dylan vote and his jokey “I don’t like my own case” comment is scummy.
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Vote Count 1.4
ashersky (1): Jimmmmm
mcmcsalot (2): Lalight, silverspawn
Robz888 (1): Galzria
DatSwan (2): Dylan32, jotheonah
Dylan32 (3): faust, UmbrageOfSnow, Robz888
silverspawn (2): ashersky, mcmcsalot
Not Voting (1): DatSwan
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
D1 ends at 11am Czech time (5am Forum Time) on Thursday 20th December.
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Actually vote: silverspawn I don’t like his Dylan vote and his jokey “I don’t like my own case” comment is scummy.
I was not joking. I made a case questioning joth's town motviation, had a chat with him, and concluded that he just thinks differently about the game and what he said was pretty much no evidence.
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@joth, is 'he' the right pronoun?
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@joth, is 'he' the right pronoun?
It is, but thanks for asking!
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My reason for voting Dylan wasn't because of the lack of explanation for the Swan vote, it was for the shading of Robz and then throwing the vote elsewhere. (Although pressure was certainly another bonus concern.)
@mcmcsalot, faust, Joth: were you guys (pretty sure you are all guys, apologies if wrong) misunderstanding my reasoning?
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My reason for voting Dylan wasn't because of the lack of explanation for the Swan vote, it was for the shading of Robz and then throwing the vote elsewhere. (Although pressure was certainly another bonus concern.)
@mcmcsalot, faust, Joth: were you guys (pretty sure you are all guys, apologies if wrong) misunderstanding my reasoning?
Your vote had a great reason and I find you towny for it. It was the following votes that I found scummy.
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I’m caught up. I agree that datswans defensiveness has felt scummy. But Faust’s post about scum wanting to not combat votes they receive is very true, it happens all the time. I don’t like how quickly the Dylan wagon grew and for the reasons. It was almost a mix of scum reads and pressure votes to reveal his datswan scum tell.
I really want to vote lalight which means he’s probably town.
Actually vote: silverspawn I don’t like his Dylan vote and his jokey “I don’t like my own case” comment is scummy.
I agree with all of this except the Dylan wagon, the Dylan wagon was fine.
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Looking at what seem to have been the major lynch candidates, I think mcmc and Dylan are scummyish and DatSwan is Towny.
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Looking at what seem to have been the major lynch candidates, I think mcmc and Dylan are scummyish and DatSwan is Towny.
And yet your vote remains on ashersky.
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Looking at what seem to have been the major lynch candidates, I think mcmc and Dylan are scummyish and DatSwan is Towny.
And yet your vote remains on ashersky.
Always a good lynch.
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Vote: Jimmmmm. Never should have moved it.
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Vote: Jimmmmm. Never should have moved it.
I guess you forgot to bold? Is this because you actually think I'm scum or because my last comment annoyed you?
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I agree with all of this except the Dylan wagon, the Dylan wagon was fine.
They can't all be the best wagon ever.
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My reason for voting Dylan wasn't because of the lack of explanation for the Swan vote, it was for the shading of Robz and then throwing the vote elsewhere. (Although pressure was certainly another bonus concern.)
@mcmcsalot, faust, Joth: were you guys (pretty sure you are all guys, apologies if wrong) misunderstanding my reasoning?
I don't think I was. It is still possible that Dylan's subsequent explanation of his vote convinced you that he's town even if you voted him originally for some other reason.
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Looking at what seem to have been the major lynch candidates, I think mcmc and Dylan are scummyish and DatSwan is Towny.
Any reason you put down mcmc as major lynch candidate and not silver (who has the same number of votes)?
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Anyways my vote on Dylan has outlived its usefulness. Vote: mcmc
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Looking at what seem to have been the major lynch candidates, I think mcmc and Dylan are scummyish and DatSwan is Towny.
Any reason you put down mcmc as major lynch candidate and not silver (who has the same number of votes)?
No. I'll have a look at silver.
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I think I'm still happy with my vote on Dylan. I am realizing Umbrage is quite an under scrutinized player today.
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I’m caught up. I agree that datswans defensiveness has felt scummy. But Faust’s post about scum wanting to not combat votes they receive is very true, it happens all the time. I don’t like how quickly the Dylan wagon grew and for the reasons. It was almost a mix of scum reads and pressure votes to reveal his datswan scum tell.
I really want to vote lalight which means he’s probably town.
Actually vote: silverspawn I don’t like his Dylan vote and his jokey “I don’t like my own case” comment is scummy.
I agree with all of this except the Dylan wagon, the Dylan wagon was fine.
If you agree with that, it implies that you have some kind of problem with the explanation I gave above, because as I see it, the thing on me is just a point of confusion. So what's wrong with my explanation?
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Vote: Jimmmmm. Never should have moved it.
I guess you forgot to bold? Is this because you actually think I'm scum or because my last comment annoyed you?
I don’t vote for people unless I think they’re scum. vote: jimmmm
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I’m caught up. I agree that datswans defensiveness has felt scummy. But Faust’s post about scum wanting to not combat votes they receive is very true, it happens all the time. I don’t like how quickly the Dylan wagon grew and for the reasons. It was almost a mix of scum reads and pressure votes to reveal his datswan scum tell.
I really want to vote lalight which means he’s probably town.
Actually vote: silverspawn I don’t like his Dylan vote and his jokey “I don’t like my own case” comment is scummy.
I agree with all of this except the Dylan wagon, the Dylan wagon was fine.
If you agree with that, it implies that you have some kind of problem with the explanation I gave above, because as I see it, the thing on me is just a point of confusion. So what's wrong with my explanation?
Your jokey "I don't like my own case" rings scummy to me, as it did to mcmc.
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We have about 42 hours until deadline and it doesn't feel like we're close to a lynch. I'd like to get a prod request on Galzria.
The leading wagon is mcmcsalot and the case on him is completely nonexistent as near as I can tell. Like literally I read through the thread and none of the votes on him come with any hint of an explanation.
The next three wagon candidates are Dylan, DatSwan, and silver. Dylan and DatSwan seem to have stalled out.
So I guess I'm going with vote: silverspawn.
I'm ok with it. He's been sheeping unashamedly, he's on the weird mcmc wagon, he's voting for jokey reasons well after RVS is over. I think silverspawn is a fine day 1 lynch with a better than 50 percent chance of being scum.
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Vote: SS
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He's been sheeping unashamedly, he's on the weird mcmc wagon, he's voting for jokey reasons well after RVS is over.
And why would he do any of that as scum?
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The leading wagon is mcmcsalot and the case on him is completely nonexistent as near as I can tell. Like literally I read through the thread and none of the votes on him come with any hint of an explanation.
The mcmc votes having no explanation is not an indicator of there being no case.
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The leading wagon is mcmcsalot and the case on him is completely nonexistent as near as I can tell. Like literally I read through the thread and none of the votes on him come with any hint of an explanation.
The mcmc votes having no explanation is not an indicator of there being no case.
Fine. But they don’t give me any reason to get onboard, and you’re going to need some converts to make a lunch happen, especially if he is scum.
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He's been sheeping unashamedly, he's on the weird mcmc wagon, he's voting for jokey reasons well after RVS is over.
And why would he do any of that as scum?
Scum likes to vote in ways that they can’t be held accountable for later.
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The leading wagon is mcmcsalot and the case on him is completely nonexistent as near as I can tell. Like literally I read through the thread and none of the votes on him come with any hint of an explanation.
The mcmc votes having no explanation is not an indicator of there being no case.
Fine. But they don’t give me any reason to get onboard, and you’re going to need some converts to make a lunch happen, especially if he is scum.
What do you think of mcmc?
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He's been sheeping unashamedly, he's on the weird mcmc wagon, he's voting for jokey reasons well after RVS is over.
And why would he do any of that as scum?
Scum likes to vote in ways that they can’t be held accountable for later.
Aren't you holding silver accountable for those votes right now?
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He's been sheeping unashamedly, he's on the weird mcmc wagon, he's voting for jokey reasons well after RVS is over.
And why would he do any of that as scum?
Scum likes to vote in ways that they can’t be held accountable for later.
Aren't you holding silver accountable for those votes right now?
And thank god I'm here to do it! But I meant post-flip. When wagons get analyzed.
The leading wagon is mcmcsalot and the case on him is completely nonexistent as near as I can tell. Like literally I read through the thread and none of the votes on him come with any hint of an explanation.
The mcmc votes having no explanation is not an indicator of there being no case.
Fine. But they don’t give me any reason to get onboard, and you’re going to need some converts to make a lunch happen, especially if he is scum.
What do you think of mcmc?
He reads very towny to me.
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He's been sheeping unashamedly, he's on the weird mcmc wagon, he's voting for jokey reasons well after RVS is over.
And why would he do any of that as scum?
Scum likes to vote in ways that they can’t be held accountable for later.
Aren't you holding silver accountable for those votes right now?
And thank god I'm here to do it! But I meant post-flip. When wagons get analyzed.
If you can hold him accountable now, why couldn't you hold him accountable then?
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He's been sheeping unashamedly, he's on the weird mcmc wagon, he's voting for jokey reasons well after RVS is over.
And why would he do any of that as scum?
Scum likes to vote in ways that they can’t be held accountable for later.
Aren't you holding silver accountable for those votes right now?
And thank god I'm here to do it! But I meant post-flip. When wagons get analyzed.
If you can hold him accountable now, why couldn't you hold him accountable then?
Anyone can hold anyone accountable for anything. But if you make a case, it can be responded to and holes can be poked in it and it might even contain a contradiction that could constitute a scumslip or make the vote seem ungenuine. If you just sheep or make a joke, there's nothing to analyze. Plus it draws less attention than an actual case and you don't have to worry about putting out reads that be analyzed later.
To summarize, it gets the town closer to a lynch without helping the town scumhunt or creating any useful information, and ideally lets the person in question fade into the background in the way scum likes to do. Silver's biggest contribution to the game so far has been a lengthy argument with me that was as much theory talk as it was anything else.
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inb4 faust says that clearly it does draw attention because it's drawing attention from me now. To which I would reply, yes, intentions are not the same as outcomes, and also most of the SS votes are not based on the pattern I'm describing but instead based on people finding things like his comment about not liking his own case scummy.
now faust, are you willing to answer some questions or do you only ask them?
Why are you voting for mcmc?
What do you think of silver?
Do you think you deserve Robz's day 1 pass?
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I will admit I do not have a massive town read on faust, he seems to be asking even more questions than usual, and not in as obviously a beneficial way. It almost feels like he's trying to walk people into traps.
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I will admit I do not have a massive town read on faust, he seems to be asking even more questions than usual, and not in as obviously a beneficial way. It almost feels like he's trying to walk people into traps.
I feel the exact same way and would have worded my post about it extremely similar. Robz is town.
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Your jokey "I don't like my own case" rings scummy to me, as it did to mcmc.
I already said that it wasn't a joke. I'm mildly annoyed that I have to say that again. Please don't repeat that it was jokey.
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Just a few posts above:
Actually vote: silverspawn I don’t like his Dylan vote and his jokey “I don’t like my own case” comment is scummy.
I was not joking. I made a case questioning joth's town motviation, had a chat with him, and concluded that he just thinks differently about the game and what he said was pretty much no evidence.
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Like you just completely ignored what I was actually asking.
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Anyway. vote: Jimmm
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I will admit I do not have a massive town read on faust, he seems to be asking even more questions than usual, and not in as obviously a beneficial way. It almost feels like he's trying to walk people into traps.
I feel the exact same way and would have worded my post about it extremely similar. Robz is town.
This could be buddying. Kind of weird thing to bring up since Robz's towniness isn't really under discussion RN.
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There's only been one thing in this game that strikes me as legitimately scummy, and that's this post
Looking at what seem to have been the major lynch candidates, I think mcmc and Dylan are scummyish and DatSwan is Towny.
I'm still in the 'early day one' mindest, and regardless of how early it is, I suspect town is more likely to feel like that then scum. Conversely, scum is more likely to have an awareness of who the 'majjor lynch candidates' are.
Put differently, I think town is less likely to think of anyone as a major candidate.
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I will admit I do not have a massive town read on faust, he seems to be asking even more questions than usual, and not in as obviously a beneficial way. It almost feels like he's trying to walk people into traps.
I feel the exact same way and would have worded my post about it extremely similar. Robz is town.
This could be buddying. Kind of weird thing to bring up since Robz's towniness isn't really under discussion RN.
Kind of weird, but probably (mildly) town indicative. Town worries less about what is immediately relevant than scum does.
Also "that's just what I was thinking and I'm town, so you must be town" is a plausible thought process.
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I will admit I do not have a massive town read on faust, he seems to be asking even more questions than usual, and not in as obviously a beneficial way. It almost feels like he's trying to walk people into traps.
I feel the exact same way and would have worded my post about it extremely similar. Robz is town.
This could be buddying. Kind of weird thing to bring up since Robz's towniness isn't really under discussion RN.
Kind of weird, but probably (mildly) town indicative. Town worries less about what is immediately relevant than scum does.
Also "that's just what I was thinking and I'm town, so you must be town" is a plausible thought process.
Especially given the twinclaim. Maybe the subtext here is that we can trust brothers to soul-read each other. Which I think is probably true more times than not but far from guaranteed.
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We have about 42 hours until deadline and it doesn't feel like we're close to a lynch. I'd like to get a prod request on Galzria.
The leading wagon is mcmcsalot and the case on him is completely nonexistent as near as I can tell. Like literally I read through the thread and none of the votes on him come with any hint of an explanation.
The next three wagon candidates are Dylan, DatSwan, and silver. Dylan and DatSwan seem to have stalled out.
So I guess I'm going with vote: silverspawn.
I'm ok with it. He's been sheeping unashamedly, he's on the weird mcmc wagon, he's voting for jokey reasons well after RVS is over. I think silverspawn is a fine day 1 lynch with a better than 50 percent chance of being scum.
Why is everyone just ignoring my case on mcmc? It’s not superstrong, but it exists
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I don’t see any case on Jimmmmm for what it’s worth
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We have about 42 hours until deadline and it doesn't feel like we're close to a lynch. I'd like to get a prod request on Galzria.
The leading wagon is mcmcsalot and the case on him is completely nonexistent as near as I can tell. Like literally I read through the thread and none of the votes on him come with any hint of an explanation.
The next three wagon candidates are Dylan, DatSwan, and silver. Dylan and DatSwan seem to have stalled out.
So I guess I'm going with vote: silverspawn.
I'm ok with it. He's been sheeping unashamedly, he's on the weird mcmc wagon, he's voting for jokey reasons well after RVS is over. I think silverspawn is a fine day 1 lynch with a better than 50 percent chance of being scum.
Why is everyone just ignoring my case on mcmc? It’s not superstrong, but it exists
I looked for it! Care to link or restate?
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NVM I found it! It's based on his DatSwan vote feeling forced.
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I’m caught up, joth and silver looks strongly like town v town.
vote: datswan
Their “woah lots going on” feels like scum surprised by the amount of discussion vs town. Town is likely to be excited and specific versus scum who would be general and dismissive.
This as well seems a little forced
I’m caught up, joth and silver looks strongly like town v town.
vote: datswan
Their “woah lots going on” feels like scum surprised by the amount of discussion vs town. Town is likely to be excited and specific versus scum who would be general and dismissive.
This as well seems a little forced
But do you disagree with my thought?
I do, actually. There was a lot of posts, when he came, No matter what alignment a person is, they could say woah it's a lot of posts for numerous reasons. Why would scum be surprised about the amount of townies discussion? There's more town people than there's scums. Even given that town would be more specific which is also not really true, or it would be really easy to catch scums.
All in all looks like you tried to develop a read out of nowhere
I apologize for saying your vote was unexplained. I was skimming and I only saw your initial RVS mcmc vote.
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Why is everyone just ignoring my case on mcmc? It’s not superstrong, but it exists
Not feeling it.
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I would like to point out the large shift in ss’s posting language/format/content/attitude since the wagon in him grew to a size worth caring about. Indicative of self-preservation and possibly defensiveness.
Jimmmmmm’s low activity is generally a town liability, as seen in some very far past games, but when he is town and plays the late game, he’s a force.
The more Faust annoys you, the more likely he is to end up town. He knows this and I’m sure tries to play to it, but I don’t know how well he does at it. I don’t know why he keeps getting NKed early; at this point it seems like living on D3 is a strong enough case to mislynch.
Others are unremarkable, generally.
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I know the wagon has all but evaporated, but I'm still feeling a Dylan lynch. Partially because of how it evaporated I think.
@faust: No, I didn't find that post notably towny. Null on it.
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I will admit I do not have a massive town read on faust, he seems to be asking even more questions than usual, and not in as obviously a beneficial way. It almost feels like he's trying to walk people into traps.
I feel the exact same way and would have worded my post about it extremely similar. Robz is town.
This could be buddying. Kind of weird thing to bring up since Robz's towniness isn't really under discussion RN.
Mcmc and I IC’d each other, basically, which is good.
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Could we get a votecount and a prod on Galz please?
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I would like to point out the large shift in ss’s posting language/format/content/attitude since the wagon in him grew to a size worth caring about. Indicative of self-preservation and possibly defensiveness.
Jimmmmmm’s low activity is generally a town liability, as seen in some very far past games, but when he is town and plays the late game, he’s a force.
The more Faust annoys you, the more likely he is to end up town. He knows this and I’m sure tries to play to it, but I don’t know how well he does at it. I don’t know why he keeps getting NKed early; at this point it seems like living on D3 is a strong enough case to mislynch.
Others are unremarkable, generally.
Faust doesn’t generally annoy me; this statement may be true for other players. Town Faust and town galz seem to get under each other’s skins.
Speaking of Galz, I’m sure he will show up eventually, and he’s not really a good Day 1 lynch, so I am inclined to just ignore his absence for now.
Ash’s point about Silver is solid.
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I'm not inclined to lynch Galz today either, but I really wish he'd show up and say some stuff.
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I will admit I do not have a massive town read on faust, he seems to be asking even more questions than usual, and not in as obviously a beneficial way. It almost feels like he's trying to walk people into traps.
I feel the exact same way and would have worded my post about it extremely similar. Robz is town.
This could be buddying. Kind of weird thing to bring up since Robz's towniness isn't really under discussion RN.
Mcmc and I IC’d each other, basically, which is good.
Unless you're scumbuddies of course.
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I would like to point out the large shift in ss’s posting language/format/content/attitude since the wagon in him grew to a size worth caring about. Indicative of self-preservation and possibly defensiveness.
Jimmmmmm’s low activity is generally a town liability, as seen in some very far past games, but when he is town and plays the late game, he’s a force.
The more Faust annoys you, the more likely he is to end up town. He knows this and I’m sure tries to play to it, but I don’t know how well he does at it. I don’t know why he keeps getting NKed early; at this point it seems like living on D3 is a strong enough case to mislynch.
Others are unremarkable, generally.
Faust doesn’t generally annoy me; this statement may be true for other players. Town Faust and town galz seem to get under each other’s skins.
Speaking of Galz, I’m sure he will show up eventually, and he’s not really a good Day 1 lynch, so I am inclined to just ignore his absence for now.
Ash’s point about Silver is solid.
We need seven of the 12 of us to lynch. But, assuming scum isn't day 1 bussing, we need seven out of nine town players to lynch scum. If Galzria is town and is out to lunch, then we're looking at needing all but one town player for a successful scum lynch.
So, as we approach deadline, I would submit that if we want to lynch scum, ignoring Galzria's absence isn't really a viable option.
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now faust, are you willing to answer some questions or do you only ask them?
I pretty much only ask them, but I'll make an exception for you.
Why are you voting for mcmc?
Because I think he's scum.
What do you think of silver?
I'd rather not say.
Do you think you deserve Robz's day 1 pass?
I think my games would be more exciting if fewer people would give me D1 passes. That said, I get it.
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I will admit I do not have a massive town read on faust, he seems to be asking even more questions than usual, and not in as obviously a beneficial way. It almost feels like he's trying to walk people into traps.
I feel the exact same way and would have worded my post about it extremely similar. Robz is town.
I always find that sort of thinking dangerous. Usually the best way to tell if someone is town is if they really wind you up because they are wrong about everything.
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Vote Count 1.5
ashersky (1): Jimmmmm
mcmcsalot (2): Lalight, faust
Robz888 (1): Galzria
DatSwan (1): Dylan32
Dylan32 (1): UmbrageOfSnow
silverspawn (4): ashersky, mcmcsalot, jotheonah, Robz888
Jimmmmm (1): silverspawn
Not Voting (1): DatSwan
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
D1 ends at 11am Czech time (5am Forum Time) on Thursday 20th December.
Galzria has been prodded
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I would like to point out the large shift in ss’s posting language/format/content/attitude since the wagon in him grew to a size worth caring about. Indicative of self-preservation and possibly defensiveness.
Is self-preservation a scumtell, particularly Day 1? No one wants to be the first lynch.
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There's always a wagon on me day 1, I'm always town, and it usually gets to about L-1 before it either dies down or I get mislynched. This is nothing unusual.
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Also, you're wrong ash. My attitude changed because Robz because (and still is) pretty annoying.
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basically joth accused me of X, I explained why it wasn't X, then robz accused me of X, I repeated that it wasn't X, and Robz ignored it.
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Is anyone going to join me on Jimmm?
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There's always a wagon on me day 1
Why is that?
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I will admit I do not have a massive town read on faust, he seems to be asking even more questions than usual, and not in as obviously a beneficial way. It almost feels like he's trying to walk people into traps.
I feel the exact same way and would have worded my post about it extremely similar. Robz is town.
I always find that sort of thinking dangerous. Usually the best way to tell if someone is town is if they really wind you up because they are wrong about everything.
Agree mostly. Last game I thought a lot of what mcmc was saying made a lot of sense and agreed with a lot of it. Final result, mcmc=scum... Not sure how much the brother claim would affect that. A relevant question for people who have read more games *cough*LaLight*cough* would be how often do mcmc and Robz accurately read each other?
I would like to point out the large shift in ss’s posting language/format/content/attitude since the wagon in him grew to a size worth caring about. Indicative of self-preservation and possibly defensiveness.
Is self-preservation a scumtell, particularly Day 1? No one wants to be the first lynch.
It probably isn't by itself, but the way you do it can be. Cuz yeah if town just rolls over and lets themselves be the first lynch (barring non-normal PR shenanigans), they are directly working against town's main objective of lynch scum. I do think a major change in tone or style could be more indicative of scum though. Scum are trying to avoid sounding scummy, and so if they are under pressure they need to sound townie, whereas town is less worried about how what they are saying sounds and more concerned that what they are saying convinces town that they are a bad lynch.
ppe several
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There's only been one thing in this game that strikes me as legitimately scummy, and that's this post
Looking at what seem to have been the major lynch candidates, I think mcmc and Dylan are scummyish and DatSwan is Towny.
I'm still in the 'early day one' mindest, and regardless of how early it is, I suspect town is more likely to feel like that then scum. Conversely, scum is more likely to have an awareness of who the 'majjor lynch candidates' are.
Put differently, I think town is less likely to think of anyone as a major candidate.
I just skimmed through the thread and quickly re-read the names that stuck out. Apparently I missed yours.
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I'm null on silver.
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Vote: Dylan
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Vote: Jimmmmm
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SS wagon is a no go for me.
Too many people I am on the fence about are on it right now, including my #1 skum read.
Also, SS switching to Jimmm, therefore leaving the only viable counter wagon at the time, doesn't strike me as skummy.
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There's always a wagon on me day 1
Why is that?
Unfortunately, I don't really know.
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I'm caught up!
I didn't quote block anything, which is what I had planned on doing when I set out to re-read, but that's life.
SS is a bad lynch. I've been decent at correctly reading him in the last few games I've played with him, both when he's town and when he's scum. He's a very consistent player, and his tone as either alignment can read VERY similar - but I've found him to be just a bit more subtle in how he tries to control the flow of things as scum - and I'm simply not seeing that here.
Faust also reads town to me right now - not that he's getting lynched anyway. Yes, he's asking a massive number of questions, which he does often as town, and mirrors well as scum - but it's how he asks them that tends to differentiate his alignments. When he's scum, I've found that his questions read as if he already knows the answer. He's not trying to deduce anything, or build reads - he asks questions for the sake of asking them, or to lead others astray.
Mcmc definitely comes across as the scummiest player to me - his opening post and vote on Swan feel VERY much like he's jumping in by leaning into his "I always fight with Swan" meta (which is DEFINITELY a thing that happens between them). But it's just so bloody obvious that... I can't decide if I feel like Mcmc is faking it, or if he's actually scummy because of it. Because I honestly believe that town!Mcmc would fake it for his own personal reasons, I'm hesitant to consider a lynch here.
Speaking of mcmc, I've found Datswan to be rather scummy as well. He too played in to the "I always fight with Mcmc" meta - but in a way that does NOT read like he's faking it for potentially pro-town reasons. Rather, his play feels much more like he's trying to force a match with his town meta, whereas Mcmc feels like he's almost intentionally being scummy. I would support this lynch.
Robz... My problem here is that I always find Robz scummy. He's a player I honestly just seem to have no ability to read whatsoever. I very much dislike the play and reads between him and Mcmc - but I'm probably more critical than I should be. Partially, I guess, I just don't trust ANY two players strong town reading each other (especially D1)!... While I'm extremely doubtful that they would make this play if they were both scum, I wouldn't be surprised to see that one of them was, and is playing into this brotherly-read.
Joth started out reading a little scummy, but has definitely played townier since then. It's really hard to make any sort of meta read here as well since it's been so long, but gut definitely feels town.
Jimmmmm/Dylan - I'm more or less neutral on. I think I find Dylan to be the townier of the two, but I don't have anything strong to go on. Certainly no real meta arguments. Just gut.
LaLight/Ashersky - I'm even more neutral on than Jimmm/Dylan.
And my "So-far-under-the-radar-even-though-they've-been-posting" player is UoS, who like Jimmmmm/Dylan/LL/Ash I have no real meta read to make, has just gut read scum to me. Like, serious under the radar scum. Don't know why. Can't point to anything they've said or done. May not even be anything to point to. Just how I felt every time I read their posts.
For now, I think I'm going to join Dylan on vote: Datswan. I think that was, and is, the best wagon we've had today.
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Also, SS switching to Jimmm, therefore leaving the only viable counter wagon at the time, doesn't strike me as skummy.
I noticed this too. But I think SS is smart enough and gutsy enough to do this as scum for town points.
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Thanks for coming in with a wall o’ text, Galz. I’m in for trying to make vote: DatSwan happen.
Would lynch: DatSwan, silver, Jimmmm
Neutral: mcmc, LaLight, Umbrage
Would rather not lynch: Dylan, faust, Robz
Would not lynch: joth, Galz, ashersky
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Thanks for coming in with a wall o’ text, Galz. I’m in for trying to make vote: DatSwan happen.
Would lynch: DatSwan, silver, Jimmmm
Neutral: mcmc, LaLight, Umbrage
Would rather not lynch: Dylan, faust, Robz
Would not lynch: joth, Galz, ashersky
Better late than never!
I’m mostly around from now until deadline too, so I’m good to discuss options.
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Galz made a reads list so he’s probably skum. Just pointing it out.
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Vote: Galzria
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A relevant question for people who have read more games *cough*LaLight*cough* would be how often do mcmc and Robz accurately read each other?
They actually mostly read each other correctly, but they can buddy each other pretty well. I was scumbuddy of mcmc twice or even thrice and he always says N0 that "I can fool Robz to think I'm town, ez". That said there were cases when Robz was scum and mcmc in the end told that he would never think that. So I'd call that a neverending WIFOM of them both, layers of layers of how they read each other.
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21 hours until deadline. :D
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Your jokey "I don't like my own case" rings scummy to me, as it did to mcmc.
I already said that it wasn't a joke. I'm mildly annoyed that I have to say that again. Please don't repeat that it was jokey.
We are not saying it’s literally a joke. We are saying tonaly it had a jokey undertone (whether you wanted it to come out that way or not) and the whole post had a vibe that rings scummy to both robz and I.
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I will admit I do not have a massive town read on faust, he seems to be asking even more questions than usual, and not in as obviously a beneficial way. It almost feels like he's trying to walk people into traps.
I feel the exact same way and would have worded my post about it extremely similar. Robz is town.
This could be buddying. Kind of weird thing to bring up since Robz's towniness isn't really under discussion RN.
Kind of weird, but probably (mildly) town indicative. Town worries less about what is immediately relevant than scum does.
Also "that's just what I was thinking and I'm town, so you must be town" is a plausible thought process.
Especially given the twinclaim. Maybe the subtext here is that we can trust brothers to soul-read each other. Which I think is probably true more times than not but far from guaranteed.
For relevance robz and I have had a few games where this has happened. Generally I find I can trust my gut on robz when it comes to a town read.
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I know the wagon has all but evaporated, but I'm still feeling a Dylan lynch. Partially because of how it evaporated I think.
@faust: No, I didn't find that post notably towny. Null on it.
Could you elaborate on this? Possibly because I found the ramping up of the wagon to be somewhat scummy I don’t find it’s dissapating scummy, but do you have more of a theory of the way it evaporated being scummy?
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I will admit I do not have a massive town read on faust, he seems to be asking even more questions than usual, and not in as obviously a beneficial way. It almost feels like he's trying to walk people into traps.
I feel the exact same way and would have worded my post about it extremely similar. Robz is town.
I always find that sort of thinking dangerous. Usually the best way to tell if someone is town is if they really wind you up because they are wrong about everything.
I strongly disagree, it’s easy to manipulate winding people up. For example you and I frequently go at it as town v town with different mindsets but we have both played into that as scum to try to get the other one of us to town read them.
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There's always a wagon on me day 1, I'm always town, and it usually gets to about L-1 before it either dies down or I get mislynched. This is nothing unusual.
Care to give us a Faustian style breakdown of how often this is actually true.
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Mcmc definitely comes across as the scummiest player to me - his opening post and vote on Swan feel VERY much like he's jumping in by leaning into his "I always fight with Swan" meta (which is DEFINITELY a thing that happens between them). But it's just so bloody obvious that... I can't decide if I feel like Mcmc is faking it, or if he's actually scummy because of it. Because I honestly believe that town!Mcmc would fake it for his own personal reasons, I'm hesitant to consider a lynch here.
Speaking of mcmc, I've found Datswan to be rather scummy as well. He too played in to the "I always fight with Mcmc" meta - but in a way that does NOT read like he's faking it for potentially pro-town reasons. Rather, his play feels much more like he's trying to force a match with his town meta, whereas Mcmc feels like he's almost intentionally being scummy. I would support this lynch.
For now, I think I'm going to join Dylan on vote: Datswan. I think that was, and is, the best wagon we've had today.
I’m confused. Can you elaborate on the underlined portion? I can go on record saying I absolutely do not fake things as town for the purpose of lookin more towny or for the purpose of helping a town or scum meta. It’s strange how you start saying I come across as the scummiest and then say you are hesitant to consider a lynch on me. Then you explain that you also find datswan scummy and even vote datswan. How then do you feel like I was scummy for going at datswan and finding him scummy?
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Mcmc definitely comes across as the scummiest player to me - his opening post and vote on Swan feel VERY much like he's jumping in by leaning into his "I always fight with Swan" meta (which is DEFINITELY a thing that happens between them). But it's just so bloody obvious that... I can't decide if I feel like Mcmc is faking it, or if he's actually scummy because of it. Because I honestly believe that town!Mcmc would fake it for his own personal reasons, I'm hesitant to consider a lynch here.
Speaking of mcmc, I've found Datswan to be rather scummy as well. He too played in to the "I always fight with Mcmc" meta - but in a way that does NOT read like he's faking it for potentially pro-town reasons. Rather, his play feels much more like he's trying to force a match with his town meta, whereas Mcmc feels like he's almost intentionally being scummy. I would support this lynch.
For now, I think I'm going to join Dylan on vote: Datswan. I think that was, and is, the best wagon we've had today.
I’m confused. Can you elaborate on the underlined portion? I can go on record saying I absolutely do not fake things as town for the purpose of lookin more towny or for the purpose of helping a town or scum meta. It’s strange how you start saying I come across as the scummiest and then say you are hesitant to consider a lynch on me. Then you explain that you also find datswan scummy and even vote datswan. How then do you feel like I was scummy for going at datswan and finding him scummy?
Just vote for Galzria already.
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I will admit I do not have a massive town read on faust, he seems to be asking even more questions than usual, and not in as obviously a beneficial way. It almost feels like he's trying to walk people into traps.
I feel the exact same way and would have worded my post about it extremely similar. Robz is town.
I always find that sort of thinking dangerous. Usually the best way to tell if someone is town is if they really wind you up because they are wrong about everything.
I strongly disagree, it’s easy to manipulate winding people up. For example you and I frequently go at it as town v town with different mindsets but we have both played into that as scum to try to get the other one of us to town read them.
And it's harder to fake agreeing with someone?
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I will admit I do not have a massive town read on faust, he seems to be asking even more questions than usual, and not in as obviously a beneficial way. It almost feels like he's trying to walk people into traps.
I feel the exact same way and would have worded my post about it extremely similar. Robz is town.
I always find that sort of thinking dangerous. Usually the best way to tell if someone is town is if they really wind you up because they are wrong about everything.
I strongly disagree, it’s easy to manipulate winding people up. For example you and I frequently go at it as town v town with different mindsets but we have both played into that as scum to try to get the other one of us to town read them.
And it's harder to fake agreeing with someone?
Oh I see what you are saying. No it’s not, and I don’t think anyone should find me towny for me agreeing with robz and me finding him towny, scum!me could be faking/buddying. But for myself, I can trust my town read on robz because it’s harder for him to fake a post that reads genuinely like what town me is feeling and how I would say it. I find it much harder to trust the type of townreads where I disagree with everything a players is saying thus they must be town, that’s the playstyle I think is easy to fake as scum.
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I will admit I do not have a massive town read on faust, he seems to be asking even more questions than usual, and not in as obviously a beneficial way. It almost feels like he's trying to walk people into traps.
I feel the exact same way and would have worded my post about it extremely similar. Robz is town.
I always find that sort of thinking dangerous. Usually the best way to tell if someone is town is if they really wind you up because they are wrong about everything.
I strongly disagree, it’s easy to manipulate winding people up. For example you and I frequently go at it as town v town with different mindsets but we have both played into that as scum to try to get the other one of us to town read them.
And it's harder to fake agreeing with someone?
Oh I see what you are saying. No it’s not, and I don’t think anyone should find me towny for me agreeing with robz and me finding him towny, scum!me could be faking/buddying. But for myself, I can trust my town read on robz because it’s harder for him to fake a post that reads genuinely like what town me is feeling and how I would say it. I find it much harder to trust the type of townreads where I disagree with everything a players is saying thus they must be town, that’s the playstyle I think is easy to fake as scum.
Why is it, then, harder for scum to fake something the reads like what you are feeling than it is for them to fake a post that reads like the opposite of what you are feeling?
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Why is it, then, harder for scum to fake something the that reads like what you are feeling than it is for them to fake a post that reads like the opposite of what you are feeling?
In a vacuum they are not but you are taking all the context of the situation out of my point. I am not stating what is purely harder to fake as scum something that reads like what I am feeling or the opposite of what I am feeling. I am saying it is harder to fake a post that comes across as the same thing as what I am feeling worded a similar way to how I would express that feeling than it is to fit a meta where a player is contrarian to the points that I am trying to make.
Your original point was:
I always find that sort of thinking dangerous. Usually the best way to tell if someone is town is if they really wind you up because they are wrong about everything.
And I am disagree with that point, I think it’s easier to tell when someone is town because they think and express very similar to the points I am thinking and expressing (before I express them), than it is to tell they are town based on disagreeing with everything they say. A) the player would have to be a player I normally disagree with because we view things differently and B) I think that is an easier meta to play into/fake for scum because it’s more general (be contrarian) than it is to fake coming up with similar point that another player was thinking in there head and express the point they would.
Lastly I strongly dislike that you are continually arguing with me and that you have changed what your actual argument is slightly each post so much so that you are now trying to frame me into arguing for a point I was never making. I can’t tell what your motivation is for doing it but I don’t like it nor do I think it’s a pro town thing to do.
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I'm strongly opposed to a momsalon lynch, this thought process and the thought process with regard to Robz seem very town, and my own Robz townread came from a similar place and mcmc having that same thought about Robz... I don't know, this feels kind of ironic but it's a serious mcmc townread.
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I have not changed what my argument is. You seem to think that because Robz had a thought that you had too he must be town. That seems odd. Scum has thoughts too, and the particular thought Robz was expressing may occur to scum just as well as to town. In fact scum is more likely to express it because expressing it served no discernible purpose for town.
Also somehow you're hung up on the fact that it's worded similarly to what you would have written. Well. I think the only thing that indicates is that you and Robz have a similar background in your lives. I have no clue why scum would use different wordings.
And no, it is not difficult to be contrarian and play to wind people up. But it is generally speaking not a winning strategy for scum. Scum wants to get on the good side of people so they listen to their manipulation and push back against players who try to lynch them.
PPE: 1
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I'm strongly opposed to a momsalon lynch, this thought process and the thought process with regard to Robz seem very town, and my own Robz townread came from a similar place and mcmc having that same thought about Robz... I don't know, this feels kind of ironic but it's a serious mcmc townread.
What about Galzria?
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I know the wagon has all but evaporated, but I'm still feeling a Dylan lynch. Partially because of how it evaporated I think.
Could you elaborate on this? Possibly because I found the ramping up of the wagon to be somewhat scummy I don’t find it’s dissapating scummy, but do you have more of a theory of the way it evaporated being scummy?
It felt like Dylan had some good lynch momentum going, we even had a bit of talk about days ending early so I know I'm not the only one who felt it, but then a bunch of people jumped out to put the brakes on. I know SS' vote wasn't the strongest thing, and I can see where people might have found that Dylan post about his reasoning authentic-sounding (I don't but I can kind of see it I guess), but it seemed like it never gained as much momentum as it seemed like it had and everyone but me bailed hard ASAP.
I kind of think that town!Dylan gets pushed harder by scum in that situation, to try to push the mislynch through or to make someone like me or faust look scummy for pushing it or something but it was just kind of shrugged off by everyone or actively pushed against. The post can't have been that towny even to people more familiar with Dylan, some of that is surely from town, but scum also kept silent on Dylan, backed off hard, or defended him, and that makes me want to lynch him.
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I'm strongly opposed to a momsalon lynch, this thought process and the thought process with regard to Robz seem very town, and my own Robz townread came from a similar place and mcmc having that same thought about Robz... I don't know, this feels kind of ironic but it's a serious mcmc townread.
What about Galzria?
I was just debating going back and looking at some old games to try to look at meta, don't have the time right now, but should have time before deadline.
I don't like how almost everyone is scummy or null or I'm so null I'm scummy other than you who we aren't debating lynching anyway and SS who he is defending but kind of lightly. Like it made me think it might be an "I told you so" kind of thing. So no, I don't really like that big reads post, but I also have this part of me that hates to vote anyone who comes back from being prodded with a big helpful reads post, and Galz is a good player.
I'm torn, I'm not opposed to it, I'm not voting there right now.
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I will be around for the deadline by the way, but not this evening when likely most of the exciting stuff is going to go down.
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Yeah, I don't think I can actually be on at deadline, although if I have insomnia I might log on from my girlfriend's phone or something, but no promises. I'm still U.S. East Coast.
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I know the wagon has all but evaporated, but I'm still feeling a Dylan lynch. Partially because of how it evaporated I think.
Could you elaborate on this? Possibly because I found the ramping up of the wagon to be somewhat scummy I don’t find it’s dissapating scummy, but do you have more of a theory of the way it evaporated being scummy?
It felt like Dylan had some good lynch momentum going, we even had a bit of talk about days ending early so I know I'm not the only one who felt it, but then a bunch of people jumped out to put the brakes on. I know SS' vote wasn't the strongest thing, and I can see where people might have found that Dylan post about his reasoning authentic-sounding (I don't but I can kind of see it I guess), but it seemed like it never gained as much momentum as it seemed like it had and everyone but me bailed hard ASAP.
I kind of think that town!Dylan gets pushed harder by scum in that situation, to try to push the mislynch through or to make someone like me or faust look scummy for pushing it or something but it was just kind of shrugged off by everyone or actively pushed against. The post can't have been that towny even to people more familiar with Dylan, some of that is surely from town, but scum also kept silent on Dylan, backed off hard, or defended him, and that makes me want to lynch him.
I want to like this case, but to me it felt like the wagon, which was never based on much of anything, sputtered out in a pretty organic way. I don't think scum needs to put a lot of pressure on any particular lynch day 1, especially the first one, that far from deadline.
I was the first one to move off the Dylan wagon. I can only speak for myself, but I really did find his case on DatSwan convincing. And that had two effects. One, it made Dylan seem a bit more towny to me and two, it made DatSwan seem a bit more scummy to me. And then I actually reread the evidence for myself and found that DatSwan was playing very differently this game than that game. And then DatSwan just seemed to confirm that narrative as he offered his defense, and did something else I found scummy, namely subtly reshaping Dylan's case to make his response to it seem better (see my post #177). And when he responded to me, he ignored that case, even after I pointed out that he had ignored it.
So I moved my vote to DatSwan. But it was as much a vote for DatSwan as it was an unvote for Dylan.
After that the wagon just sort of puttered out -- Lalight showed up and said it was bad, silver moved his vote, we started talking about other wagons.
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Incidentally, that's why I was happy to try again to make a DatSwan lynch happen when Galzy showed up. I know I have a tendency to tunnel, but I am definitely still scumreading him.
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I have not changed what my argument is. You seem to think that because Robz had a thought that you had too he must be town. That seems odd. Scum has thoughts too, and the particular thought Robz was expressing may occur to scum just as well as to town. In fact scum is more likely to express it because expressing it served no discernible purpose for town.
Also somehow you're hung up on the fact that it's worded similarly to what you would have written. Well. I think the only thing that indicates is that you and Robz have a similar background in your lives. I have no clue why scum would use different wordings.
And no, it is not difficult to be contrarian and play to wind people up. But it is generally speaking not a winning strategy for scum. Scum wants to get on the good side of people so they listen to their manipulation and push back against players who try to lynch them.
PPE: 1
I think it's a bit scummy to try to talk people out of early town reads. Like, what's the point? It's day 1 and I'm looking for reasons to rule people out. Like, if two days from now, there's something really suspicious about mcmc, I'm not going to go, "Alas, my early day 1 read on mcmc tells me otherwise, I will not vote him!" I think scum tends to panic and think oh my god, this person is correctly town reading this other person, they will never vote for each other, I am about to be POE'd, the walls are closing in, I must fight this... At least, I know I have had those freakouts in the past, as scum.
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If Silver isn't happening... Dylan, Jimmm, DatSwan, UoS are all fine by me. The only lynches I would quite actively oppose right now are Joth and mcmc, I guess.
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I have not changed what my argument is. You seem to think that because Robz had a thought that you had too he must be town. That seems odd. Scum has thoughts too, and the particular thought Robz was expressing may occur to scum just as well as to town. In fact scum is more likely to express it because expressing it served no discernible purpose for town.
Also somehow you're hung up on the fact that it's worded similarly to what you would have written. Well. I think the only thing that indicates is that you and Robz have a similar background in your lives. I have no clue why scum would use different wordings.
And no, it is not difficult to be contrarian and play to wind people up. But it is generally speaking not a winning strategy for scum. Scum wants to get on the good side of people so they listen to their manipulation and push back against players who try to lynch them.
PPE: 1
I think it's a bit scummy to try to talk people out of early town reads. Like, what's the point? It's day 1 and I'm looking for reasons to rule people out. Like, if two days from now, there's something really suspicious about mcmc, I'm not going to go, "Alas, my early day 1 read on mcmc tells me otherwise, I will not vote him!" I think scum tends to panic and think oh my god, this person is correctly town reading this other person, they will never vote for each other, I am about to be POE'd, the walls are closing in, I must fight this... At least, I know I have had those freakouts in the past, as scum.
It's not so much about talking mcmc out of the read as it is about seeing how well mcmc handles scrutiny of his paperthin argument.
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If Silver isn't happening... Dylan, Jimmm, DatSwan, UoS are all fine by me. The only lynches I would quite actively oppose right now are Joth and mcmc, I guess.
What about Galzria?
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Also could you do some active opposing of the mcmc lynch right now because that still seems like an appealing option.
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Okay, well, I very actively oppose it because I really do get some strong town vibes from mcmc, and my opinion on mcmc's towniness should count for something significant. Though I could be wrong and might change my mind later.
Galzria... I don't really think Galz has done anything to merit a town read, but I'm not reading him as scum either. Seems like a lot of work to lynch him, and there's not a huge reason to.
What is the vote count?
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Vote Count 1.6
mcmcsalot (1): Lalight
DatSwan (1): Dylan32
Dylan32 (2): UmbrageOfSnow, Jimmmmm
silverspawn (3): ashersky, mcmcsalot, Robz888
Jimmmmm (4): silverspawn, DatSwan, Galzria, jotheonah
Galzria (1): faust
Not Voting (0):
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
D1 ends at 11am Czech time (5am Forum Time) on Thursday 20th December. That's in ~17 hours.
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Vote: Jimmmm
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Vote Count 1.6
mcmcsalot (1): Lalight
DatSwan (1): Dylan32
Dylan32 (2): UmbrageOfSnow, Jimmmmm
silverspawn (3): ashersky, mcmcsalot, Robz888
Jimmmmm (4): silverspawn, DatSwan, Galzria, jotheonah
Galzria (1): faust
Not Voting (0):
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
D1 ends at 11am Czech time (5am Forum Time) on Thursday 20th December. That's in ~17 hours.
My vote should be on DatSwan.
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so should Galzria's
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Well then, Vote: Datswan
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Galz made a reads list so he’s probably skum. Just pointing it out.
I would be interested in what reality you're living, as I can point to both recent town and recent scum games where I've given reads lists. "Galz made a reads list so he's probably skum or town" would be a much more accurate statement. ::)
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Galz made a reads list so he’s probably skum. Just pointing it out.
Also, seems you forgot to vote for me here, even though, you know, I'm "probably skum".
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Vote: Galzria
Just vote for Galzria already.
What about Galzria?
What about Galzria?
You do you faust-y boy.
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Vote: Galzria
Just vote for Galzria already.
What about Galzria?
What about Galzria?
You do you faust-y boy.
JACOB FROM "LOST" VOICE: What about Galzria?
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Galz made a reads list so he’s probably skum. Just pointing it out.
Also, seems you forgot to vote for me here, even though, you know, I'm "probably skum".
Sorry.
Vote: Galz
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Unofficial corrected/updated vote count:
mcmcsalot (1): Lalight
DatSwan (4): Dylan32, Galzria, Jotheonah, Robz888 (L-3)
Dylan32 (2): UmbrageOfSnow, Jimmmmm
silverspawn (2): ashersky, mcmcsalot
Jimmmmm (1): silverspawn
Galzria (2): faust, DatSwan
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Mcmc definitely comes across as the scummiest player to me - his opening post and vote on Swan feel VERY much like he's jumping in by leaning into his "I always fight with Swan" meta (which is DEFINITELY a thing that happens between them). But it's just so bloody obvious that... I can't decide if I feel like Mcmc is faking it, or if he's actually scummy because of it. Because I honestly believe that town!Mcmc would fake it for his own personal reasons, I'm hesitant to consider a lynch here.
Speaking of mcmc, I've found Datswan to be rather scummy as well. He too played in to the "I always fight with Mcmc" meta - but in a way that does NOT read like he's faking it for potentially pro-town reasons. Rather, his play feels much more like he's trying to force a match with his town meta, whereas Mcmc feels like he's almost intentionally being scummy. I would support this lynch.
For now, I think I'm going to join Dylan on vote: Datswan. I think that was, and is, the best wagon we've had today.
I’m confused. Can you elaborate on the underlined portion? I can go on record saying I absolutely do not fake things as town for the purpose of lookin more towny or for the purpose of helping a town or scum meta. It’s strange how you start saying I come across as the scummiest and then say you are hesitant to consider a lynch on me. Then you explain that you also find datswan scummy and even vote datswan. How then do you feel like I was scummy for going at datswan and finding him scummy?
I'll do my best.
When I read the thread, start to finish, and try to remove any pre-conceived bias or reads that I may have already have formed (which, I'll admit, I'm not completely capable of doing), you come across as extremely scummy. So does Datswan. Both of your opening set of posts where you vote for one another feel extremely disengenuous and as you both have a strong established meta of clashing with each other, it feels very forced.
So what's different about my reads on you two? The best I can describe it is that your posts for Swan feel like you're TRYING to be scummy - it feels over the top and obvious. From a town perspective, there are plenty of reasons to want to be slightly scum read. You could be a PR trying to avoid a NK. You could be a VT trying to pull a NK based on the previous sentance. I've seen both from multiple players, in multiple scenario's. I've done the second recently (M117 I think? I was VT and played D1 overly scummy with a very soft Cop claim that scum picked up on N1).
Swan on the other hand, reads more serious. Maybe it's that he came second and you first, but he reads to me like he's playing into the "mcmc and I always fight" meta because he's trying to appear like his town-self. It just doesn't give me the same vibes that there could be an alterior town motivation for playing it out that way.
Both of you open by playing into this same, pre-established meta. I could be over-reading on you, and maybe you're just scum trying to blend in to your town meta, as I'm suspicious of Swan for doing. But for neither of you does this come across as genuine. I just find it easier to believe there's a town motivation for you than I do for Swan.
In the end, for both of you to be town and to have opened the way you both did feels really, really strange to me. I just don't feel it. And I have an easier time seeing you posting in the fashion you did as town than I do seeing Swan posting in the fashion that he did as town - so while I'm hesitant to want to vote you, I have no problem voting Swan.
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Last Galz post reads like a super well hidden agenda to get two players he knows are town lynched.
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I think some of you haven't gotten the 'vote counts are automated' memo yet (assuming EFHW is using space's program). If your vote doesn't count, it's probably because of spelling. Space doesn't ignore casing, so if you say Datswan rather than DatSwan, it probably won't be counted.
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Okay, well, I very actively oppose it because I really do get some strong town vibes from mcmc, and my opinion on mcmc's towniness should count for something significant. Though I could be wrong and might change my mind later.
Galzria... I don't really think Galz has done anything to merit a town read, but I'm not reading him as scum either. Seems like a lot of work to lynch him, and there's not a huge reason to.
What is the vote count?
this sounds so scummy. but I'm not sure it actually is
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Your jokey "I don't like my own case" rings scummy to me, as it did to mcmc.
I already said that it wasn't a joke. I'm mildly annoyed that I have to say that again. Please don't repeat that it was jokey.
We are not saying it’s literally a joke. We are saying tonaly it had a jokey undertone (whether you wanted it to come out that way or not) and the whole post had a vibe that rings scummy to both robz and I.
That wasn't really what either of you said, but I can accept that it's what you were trying to say. I appreciate you responding rather than ignoring it as Robz continues to do.
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I think some of you haven't gotten the 'vote counts are automated' memo yet (assuming EFHW is using space's program). If your vote doesn't count, it's probably because of spelling. Space doesn't ignore casing, so if you say Datswan rather than DatSwan, it probably won't be counted.
Oh, really? Okay. Vote: DatSwan
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Your jokey "I don't like my own case" rings scummy to me, as it did to mcmc.
I already said that it wasn't a joke. I'm mildly annoyed that I have to say that again. Please don't repeat that it was jokey.
We are not saying it’s literally a joke. We are saying tonaly it had a jokey undertone (whether you wanted it to come out that way or not) and the whole post had a vibe that rings scummy to both robz and I.
That wasn't really what either of you said, but I can accept that it's what you were trying to say. I appreciate you responding rather than ignoring it as Robz continues to do.
I am no longer ignoring, and yes, I meant what mcmc meant.
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I think some of you haven't gotten the 'vote counts are automated' memo yet (assuming EFHW is using space's program). If your vote doesn't count, it's probably because of spelling. Space doesn't ignore casing, so if you say Datswan rather than DatSwan, it probably won't be counted.
Oh, really? Okay. Vote: DatSwan
Is that actually a thing? Wow, I'm going to mis-vote almost every single time.
Vote: DatSwan
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I think some of you haven't gotten the 'vote counts are automated' memo yet (assuming EFHW is using space's program). If your vote doesn't count, it's probably because of spelling. Space doesn't ignore casing, so if you say Datswan rather than DatSwan, it probably won't be counted.
vote: DatSwan
But I also went back and checked and I typed it exactly right before.
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I know the wagon has all but evaporated, but I'm still feeling a Dylan lynch. Partially because of how it evaporated I think.
Could you elaborate on this? Possibly because I found the ramping up of the wagon to be somewhat scummy I don’t find it’s dissapating scummy, but do you have more of a theory of the way it evaporated being scummy?
It felt like Dylan had some good lynch momentum going, we even had a bit of talk about days ending early so I know I'm not the only one who felt it, but then a bunch of people jumped out to put the brakes on. I know SS' vote wasn't the strongest thing, and I can see where people might have found that Dylan post about his reasoning authentic-sounding (I don't but I can kind of see it I guess), but it seemed like it never gained as much momentum as it seemed like it had and everyone but me bailed hard ASAP.
I kind of think that town!Dylan gets pushed harder by scum in that situation, to try to push the mislynch through or to make someone like me or faust look scummy for pushing it or something but it was just kind of shrugged off by everyone or actively pushed against. The post can't have been that towny even to people more familiar with Dylan, some of that is surely from town, but scum also kept silent on Dylan, backed off hard, or defended him, and that makes me want to lynch him.
I would buy that if it was later in the game, but at this point in day 1 -- although admittedly we're close to the deadline -- I think scum is fairly likely not to pursue a 'promising' looking wagon on town.
Also, couldn't the same be said about my wagon?
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Is that actually a thing? Wow, I'm going to mis-vote almost every single time.
Vote: DatSwan
It's probably a thing. There's a list of nicknames for each person, so "mc" will work for mcmc and 'Swan' probably works for 'DatSwan' but 'Darswan' might not work.
But I also went back and checked and I typed it exactly right before.
well, maybe EFHW did it by hand and just missed it.
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Theory question (humor me, I'm rusty): How bad is it for town if we end up no-lynching because we fail to reach consensus?
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Theory question (humor me, I'm rusty): How bad is it for town if we end up no-lynching because we fail to reach consensus?
The setup portion of that mostly depends on the number of cops in the game. Which in expectation is like one half, so not many. then it depends on how much you think it matters for our reads day 2. I'd say it's in between somewhat bad and pretty bad.
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Theory question (humor me, I'm rusty): How bad is it for town if we end up no-lynching because we fail to reach consensus?
For me, more than anything, the loss of information regarding the flip - the who's and the why's of where people go to successfully land a lynch, be it on town or on scum - is the biggest pitfall of a no-lynch, especially D1. All of these interactions that we've established don't have a lot of meaning if there's nothing to measure them against.
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Did a PoE of swan. At first I was like "mhm" and then I was like "mmmno".
This is all based on gut, so... but still I don't think he's a good lynch.
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I think some of you haven't gotten the 'vote counts are automated' memo yet (assuming EFHW is using space's program). If your vote doesn't count, it's probably because of spelling. Space doesn't ignore casing, so if you say Datswan rather than DatSwan, it probably won't be counted.
I'm going to find this really obnoxious. Not the tool being limited but the votes-that-the-tool-misses-don't-count part.
Like how many m's does Jimmmmmmmmmmmmmm have? Does anyone really know?
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Also, couldn't the same be said about my wagon?
Your wagon didn't get nearly so universal pushback and abandonment.
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Theory question (humor me, I'm rusty): How bad is it for town if we end up no-lynching because we fail to reach consensus?
Terrible, I'd lynch my townreads before no-lynching.
With an odd playercount I wouldn't lynch an actual IC or claimed cop or something, but otherwise whoever, it's the one case where I'd self-vote. The even number of players makes it less bad than with an odd number of players because it just converts an endgame MYLO into LYLO if we don't have a doctor save or vig kill or anything, but if we do have any roles like that that would change us to odd numbers it is still absolutely terrible and tons of roles can kill or prevent a kill, much better to no-lynch at MYLO later.
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I think some of you haven't gotten the 'vote counts are automated' memo yet (assuming EFHW is using space's program). If your vote doesn't count, it's probably because of spelling. Space doesn't ignore casing, so if you say Datswan rather than DatSwan, it probably won't be counted.
I'm going to find this really obnoxious. Not the tool being limited but the votes-that-the-tool-misses-don't-count part.
Like how many m's does Jimmmmmmmmmmmmmm have? Does anyone really know?
For my tool, I have the possible abbreviations jim > jimm > jimmm > jimmmm > jimmmmm > jimmmmmm > jimmmmmmm > jimmmmmmmm > jimmmmmmmmm > jimmmmmmmmmm
so it's hard to go wrong. I assume Space is similarly generous.
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Did a PoE of swan. At first I was like "mhm" and then I was like "mmmno".
wait no not a poe. there's a term for a one-player reread but I forgot what it was. that thing.
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Did a PoE of swan. At first I was like "mhm" and then I was like "mmmno".
wait no not a poe. there's a term for a one-player reread but I forgot what it was. that thing.
ISO
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Did a PoE of swan. At first I was like "mhm" and then I was like "mmmno".
wait no not a poe. there's a term for a one-player reread but I forgot what it was. that thing.
Targeted Reread? Single Person Analysis? I dunno.
Who would you prefer more? What are your thoughts on UoS? I'm curious if I'm the only one getting this massive under-the-radar scum vibe from them (probably a scum vibe because I don't think I've ever gotten an "under-the-radar town vibe" before? lol). It's not like they haven't posted, or aren't posting now, or aren't participating... I'm just gut reading scummy, without being able to put my finger on it.
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Did a PoE of swan. At first I was like "mhm" and then I was like "mmmno".
wait no not a poe. there's a term for a one-player reread but I forgot what it was. that thing.
ISO
Yes, thanks.
Who would you prefer more?
Most people more, but Jim the most
What are your thoughts on UoS?
Towny. I'm not getting any of the scum vibes you speak of.
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What are your thoughts on UoS?
Towny. I'm not getting any of the scum vibes you speak of.
That's fair. I can't really give a good reason for my read, so it shouldn't be expected that others share it.
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Who would you prefer more?
Most people more, but Jim the most
I would vote Jimmm to see a lynch, but definitely find Swan to be scummier.
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The Jimmmmm lynch seems eminently viable. Maybe too viable.
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The Jimmmmm lynch seems eminently viable. Maybe too viable.
The people that have voted Jimmm, and in order are:
Faust (57)
Joth (61)
Joth (224) (intent at 215, bad formatting)
Silver (243)
Swan (275)
Robz (313)
And then I just said that I would to get a lynch.
I believe the highest his wagon has been is 3.
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Vote Count 1.7
DatSwan (4): Dylan32, Galzria, jotheonah, Robz888
Dylan32 (2): UmbrageOfSnow, Jimmmmm
silverspawn (2): ashersky, mcmcsalot
mcmcsalot (1): LaLight
Jimmmmm (1): silverspawn
Galzria (2): faust, DatSwan
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
D1 ends at 11am Czech time (5am Forum Time) on Thursday 20th December. That's in a little under 13.5 hours.
Note on vote counts: EFHW is not using my vote counter, but I'll run the final count for D1. I have plenty of variations on "Jimmmmm" on the alias list. I want to make it very clear that typos in usernames risk them not being counted (I may or may not have already allowed them), and that this is a good thing because allowing players too much leeway in how to announce their votes makes the game less inclusive for players who don't have the same meta history or cultural references to work with.
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No lynching would be terrible.
If it were up to me, somebody would get DS to L-1 soon, so we can give him time to claim, and give ourselves an end of day option.
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The Jimmmmm lynch seems eminently viable. Maybe too viable.
The people that have voted Jimmm, and in order are:
Faust (57)
Joth (61)
Joth (224) (intent at 215, bad formatting)
Silver (243)
Swan (275)
Robz (313)
And then I just said that I would to get a lynch.
I believe the highest his wagon has been is 3.
So that's six players. Assuming they're all still feeling it, we would need to convince one of UoS, LaLight, Dylan, mcmc, and ashersky to go along.
So yeah. Super doable.
I was going to say that this should worry us because easy lynches are town lynches, but I talked myself out of it. I'm in. And I'm about to drop off availability-wise so I'll move my vote now.
vote: Jimmmmm
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The Jimmmmm lynch seems eminently viable. Maybe too viable.
The people that have voted Jimmm, and in order are:
Faust (57)
Joth (61)
Joth (224) (intent at 215, bad formatting)
Silver (243)
Swan (275)
Robz (313)
And then I just said that I would to get a lynch.
I believe the highest his wagon has been is 3.
So that's six players. Assuming they're all still feeling it, we would need to convince one of UoS, LaLight, Dylan, mcmc, and ashersky to go along.
So yeah. Super doable.
I was going to say that this should worry us because easy lynches are town lynches, but I talked myself out of it. I'm in. And I'm about to drop off availability-wise so I'll move my vote now.
vote: Jimmmmm
No lynching would be terrible.
If it were up to me, somebody would get DS to L-1 soon, so we can give him time to claim, and give ourselves an end of day option.
D1 ends at 11am Czech time (5am Forum Time) on Thursday 20th December. That's in a little under 13.5 hours.
13.5 hours is still plenty of time. If you prefer DatSwan to Jimmm, I would suggest staying on DatSwan.
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The Jimmmmm lynch seems eminently viable. Maybe too viable.
The people that have voted Jimmm, and in order are:
Faust (57)
Joth (61)
Joth (224) (intent at 215, bad formatting)
Silver (243)
Swan (275)
Robz (313)
And then I just said that I would to get a lynch.
I believe the highest his wagon has been is 3.
So that's six players. Assuming they're all still feeling it, we would need to convince one of UoS, LaLight, Dylan, mcmc, and ashersky to go along.
So yeah. Super doable.
I was going to say that this should worry us because easy lynches are town lynches, but I talked myself out of it. I'm in. And I'm about to drop off availability-wise so I'll move my vote now.
vote: Jimmmmm
No lynching would be terrible.
If it were up to me, somebody would get DS to L-1 soon, so we can give him time to claim, and give ourselves an end of day option.
D1 ends at 11am Czech time (5am Forum Time) on Thursday 20th December. That's in a little under 13.5 hours.
13.5 hours is still plenty of time. If you prefer DatSwan to Jimmm, I would suggest staying on DatSwan.
In a vacuum, it's plenty of time. Given the speed at which this game has been moving, it's a very short time. Also consider that many of us will be asleep for the last 6 or so of those 13 hours.
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The Jimmmmm lynch seems eminently viable. Maybe too viable.
The people that have voted Jimmm, and in order are:
Faust (57)
Joth (61)
Joth (224) (intent at 215, bad formatting)
Silver (243)
Swan (275)
Robz (313)
And then I just said that I would to get a lynch.
I believe the highest his wagon has been is 3.
So that's six players. Assuming they're all still feeling it, we would need to convince one of UoS, LaLight, Dylan, mcmc, and ashersky to go along.
So yeah. Super doable.
I was going to say that this should worry us because easy lynches are town lynches, but I talked myself out of it. I'm in. And I'm about to drop off availability-wise so I'll move my vote now.
vote: Jimmmmm
No lynching would be terrible.
If it were up to me, somebody would get DS to L-1 soon, so we can give him time to claim, and give ourselves an end of day option.
D1 ends at 11am Czech time (5am Forum Time) on Thursday 20th December. That's in a little under 13.5 hours.
13.5 hours is still plenty of time. If you prefer DatSwan to Jimmm, I would suggest staying on DatSwan.
In a vacuum, it's plenty of time. Given the speed at which this game has been moving, it's a very short time. Also consider that many of us will be asleep for the last 6 or so of those 13 hours.
Your second point has some validity - my argument against the first would require you to skim the last 20 or so most recent games, where you'll find that like, 20% of D1 posts come within the 3-4 hours leading up to deadline (or at least, it definitely feels that way). Point being, a slow 6.75 real life days says nothing about how the last .25 will go.
Still, yes - deadline is 2:00am for me, and 5:00am for others here. While I'll likely be up/around, there may be a few people that are not.
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I'll move back to vote: DatSwan for a few more hours, Galz. For you. I really need to go now for irl stuff, but I'll probably check back in around 7 or 8 pm forum time. Hopefully ... things of some kind will happen.
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Just reread Jimmmmm. I could move, and would like that more than some of the other options that have been mentioned, but would rather stay on DatSwan.
I'll be off and on this evening, but won't be on at all in the morning.
ppe 1
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The total and complete lack of interest in Dylan has me itching to lynch Dylan more and more.
That said, I'd prefer DerSwan to Jimmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, so
Vote: DatSwan
L-2
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so should Galzria's
Sorry!
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I still like silver lynch the best but doesn’t look to be going anywhere I don’t like the jimm wagon but would vote datswan or galzria
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Actually vote: datswan L-1
Claim time.
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Yeah I was gonna do it anyways at L-2 so we have time...
you all suck! (just kidding)
I am a Mason. I am not claiming my partner. We should lynch Galz.
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Ok. Well, the prior for masons is roughly 45%. scum could fake claim but probably won't. I also don't think DatSwan was guaranteed to be lynched.
So we shouldn't lynch him for sure. Maybe go Jim instead?
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Jimm would be my second choice at this point.
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actually Galz-Robz-Jimm in that order.
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Ok. Well, the prior for masons is roughly 45%. scum could fake claim but probably won't. I also don't think DatSwan was guaranteed to be lynched.
So we shouldn't lynch him for sure. Maybe go Jim instead?
Jimmm could happen. It should be noted that if scum were going to fakeclaim Mason, this is exactly how they would do so - by refusing to announce their partner so as to not incriminate another player.
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Vote: Jimmmm
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Ok. Well, the prior for masons is roughly 45%. scum could fake claim but probably won't. I also don't think DatSwan was guaranteed to be lynched.
So we shouldn't lynch him for sure. Maybe go Jim instead?
Jimmm could happen. It should be noted that if scum were going to fakeclaim Mason, this is exactly how they would do so - by refusing to announce their partner so as to not incriminate another player.
Yeah, but any sensible town would do it like this, too.
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Ok. Well, the prior for masons is roughly 45%. scum could fake claim but probably won't. I also don't think DatSwan was guaranteed to be lynched.
So we shouldn't lynch him for sure. Maybe go Jim instead?
Jimmm could happen. It should be noted that if scum were going to fakeclaim Mason, this is exactly how they would do so - by refusing to announce their partner so as to not incriminate another player.
Yeah, but any sensible town would do it like this, too.
Yes, which is why I’m not insisting on trying to lynch him anyway. The claim itself, in this manner, is neither scummy nor townie.
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What are the chances of a 3M roll? If there’s a UB in play that did NOT auto-convert to Mason, should they claim and we lynch Swan?
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Okay, Vote: Jimmmm
Note to DatSwan: you should stop giving reads if you wish to preserve your partner's anonymity (unless you're doing a fake out).
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What are the chances of a 3M roll?
Not conditioning on the mason claim, three M it's 1,458%. Three or more M is 1,585%.
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If there’s a UB in play that did NOT auto-convert to Mason, should they claim and we lynch Swan?
Good question. I think they answer is yes, they should claim.
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*the
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What are the chances of a 3M roll? If there’s a UB in play that did NOT auto-convert to Mason, should they claim and we lynch Swan?
What do you do if that happens and i flip mason?
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What are the chances of a 3M roll? If there’s a UB in play that did NOT auto-convert to Mason, should they claim and we lynch Swan?
What do you do if that happens and i flip mason?
Be very annoyed that such an unlikely coincidence happened which will presumably cause various people to claim that arguments based on math aren't reliable in the future.
But if a UB actually claims, what would happen is that you'd claim your partner, at which point we might actually postpone the lynch, since now scum is fairly allin.
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But very likely we flipped one M and have a mason pair.
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Okay, Vote: Jimmmm
Note to DatSwan: you should stop giving reads if you wish to preserve your partner's anonymity (unless you're doing a fake out).
interesting time for you speak up on the matter
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I feel the need to point out that if I were skum fake claiming I think one would be better fit to choose something other than a mason fake claim. Personally, I would of claimed 1 shot doctor in this spot as skum. It sets up for tomorrow to force a real doctor to have to out their results to explain why I am still alive, or if they existed, maybe they would even proc me in that spot, idk. But the mason claim, as we are here right now, would just be stupid. How does that play out?
1) I claim mason, don't claim partner.
2a) Real masons (assuming I am skum) could claim.
2b) The whole UB claim could happen, which (if I were skum) I would have to assume is at least moderately likely.
3) Either way it plays out, it will end up with me having to claim a partner.... which... if I were skum is pretty much game over for me at that point.
Now that all sounds like skummy defense for me saying if there is a UB they should not claim. It IS defense of me saying that if there is a UB they should keep quiet... but I do not intend for it to be skummy.
The concept just leads to so many PRs outing themselves so early on. That is exactly what skum would want to push in this scenario. Exactly the opposite is what I am suggesting. I think in order from best to worse it goes:
1) lynch someone that is not me (or my partner)
2) lynch me
3) have the UB claim and go down that path.
I do not think that in this set up that skum would fake claim UB here. I get lynched, they kill partner at night, UB gets lynched tomorrow. Just the same, if there is a UB in the game, if they were to claim it would go the same - I get lynched, they kill my partner at night, UB gets lynched tomorrow. So of course SKUM WOULD WANT TO PROMOTE A UB CLAIM because it gives them one extra PR they know. I would much rather us either lynch someone that is not me and keep my partner and the UB unknown, or if you must, lynch me and at least there will be a unknown pair of masons left in the game if the UB exists. In both of those scenarios I am the only known PR that is does not make it to tomorrow - sort of a limiting the damage concept.
Damn this is a hard point to push from my current spot. Anyone at all in the game that sees the point I am making here?
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Vote: Galz
Still prefer Dylan.
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Ok. Well, the prior for masons is roughly 45%. scum could fake claim but probably won't. I also don't think DatSwan was guaranteed to be lynched.
So we shouldn't lynch him for sure. Maybe go Jim instead?
Jimmm could happen. It should be noted that if scum were going to fakeclaim Mason, this is exactly how they would do so - by refusing to announce their partner so as to not incriminate another player.
Yeah, but any sensible town would do it like this, too.
Yes, which is why I’m not insisting on trying to lynch him anyway. The claim itself, in this manner, is neither scummy nor townie.
I disagree. If scum claims Mason and survives for long enough, the partner/s will also have to claim.
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Ok. Well, the prior for masons is roughly 45%. scum could fake claim but probably won't. I also don't think DatSwan was guaranteed to be lynched.
So we shouldn't lynch him for sure. Maybe go Jim instead?
Jimmm could happen. It should be noted that if scum were going to fakeclaim Mason, this is exactly how they would do so - by refusing to announce their partner so as to not incriminate another player.
Yeah, but any sensible town would do it like this, too.
Yes, which is why I’m not insisting on trying to lynch him anyway. The claim itself, in this manner, is neither scummy nor townie.
I disagree. If scum claims Mason and survives for long enough, the partner/s will also have to claim.
I cannot imagine a scenario in which a skum claiming mason survives long enough in this game here that they would have a partner risk fake claiming instead of just accepting death.
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Ok. Well, the prior for masons is roughly 45%. scum could fake claim but probably won't. I also don't think DatSwan was guaranteed to be lynched.
So we shouldn't lynch him for sure. Maybe go Jim instead?
Jimmm could happen. It should be noted that if scum were going to fakeclaim Mason, this is exactly how they would do so - by refusing to announce their partner so as to not incriminate another player.
Yeah, but any sensible town would do it like this, too.
Yes, which is why I’m not insisting on trying to lynch him anyway. The claim itself, in this manner, is neither scummy nor townie.
I disagree. If scum claims Mason and survives for long enough, the partner/s will also have to claim.
I cannot imagine a scenario in which a skum claiming mason survives long enough in this game here that they would have a partner risk fake claiming instead of just accepting death.
you know what I spoke too soon, I suppose I see your point.
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Vote Count 1.8
DatSwan (4): Dylan32, jotheonah, UmbrageOfSnow, mcmcsalot
silverspawn (1): ashersky
mcmcsalot (1): LaLight
Jimmmmm (3): silverspawn, Galzria, Robz888
Galzria (3): faust, DatSwan, Jimmmmm
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
D1 ends at 11am Czech time (5am Forum Time) on Thursday 20th December. That's in ~9.5 hours.
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Vote: Jimmmmm
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vote: jimmmm
I would not like to lynch Galzria.
I don’t believe Swan 100% but agree it would be a bizarre claim for scum to make.
There is one other option, which is to have the other Mason claim. Mason isn’t like a hugely powerful power. If we force a partner claim, we either double up on scum if Swan is lying or we get some ICs. Sure scum can NK one, but that’s a shot they’re not spending on a potential cop or doc.
Am I wrong? Say we lynch someone else and scum NKs Swan. Now his partner isn’t even an IC, they’re basically a VT. Double claim seems more valuable then.
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vote: jimmmm
I would not like to lynch Galzria.
I don’t believe Swan 100% but agree it would be a bizarre claim for scum to make.
There is one other option, which is to have the other Mason claim. Mason isn’t like a hugely powerful power. If we force a partner claim, we either double up on scum if Swan is lying or we get some ICs. Sure scum can NK one, but that’s a shot they’re not spending on a potential cop or doc.
Am I wrong? Say we lynch someone else and scum NKs Swan. Now his partner isn’t even an IC, they’re basically a VT. Double claim seems more valuable then.
The advantage if Swan is scum is fairly obvious - it forces scum into revealing two players. This still relies on either one of them dying and flipping, or a cop investigating to reveal a guilty result, incriminating both. It's worth noting that scum is gifted a Godfather in this setup, so this could all go very wrong, and get very messy very quickly.
The advantage if Swan is town is a little more complex. The other Mason claiming wouldn't IC either of them - it would simply tie them together. As you note, they're essentially VT's at that point in that they aren't any real threat as a PR. Scum doesn't really have any incentive to kill them - especially if they think that there may be prolonged suspicion on the Masons. If they DID choose to kill one, it would immediately IC the other for the following day, and honestly there isn't much need for them to do that. So what you get if Swan is town and the other Mason claims is two VT's that likely don't get killed at night, and you can't really fully trust to actually be town and not scum. A cop could investigate them, but because of the existence of the Godfather, even that wouldn't completely clear the pair.
So.... meh. I don't think the advantages that you're thinking exist are as clear cut as it seems.
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Okay, let's make this seem a bit less inevitable:
Vote: Galzria
I will check in once more before bed in a few hours.
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unvote the jimm lynch is a coinflip. I do think the the mason should not claim purely based on the scenario that galz laid out.
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unvote the jimm lynch is a coinflip. I do think the the mason should not claim purely based on the scenario that galz laid out.
I don’t think so. I’ve been finding him scummy all day.
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unvote the jimm lynch is a coinflip. I do think the the mason should not claim purely based on the scenario that galz laid out.
I don’t think so. I’ve been finding him scummy all day.
Can you sum up the case, sorry if it’s been said.
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Vote Count 1.9
silverspawn (1): ashersky
mcmcsalot (1): LaLight
Jimmmmm (5): silverspawn, Galzria, Robz888, Dylan, jotheonah
Galzria (4): faust, DatSwan, Jimmmmm, UmbrageofSnow
Not voting (1): mcmsalot
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
D1 ends at 11am Czech time (5am Forum Time) on Thursday 20th December. That's in ~7 hours. FYI, his probably the last vc until 4 a.m.
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It's all about this:
Looking at what seem to have been the major lynch candidates, I think mcmc and Dylan are scummyish and DatSwan is Towny.
Scummy for a few reasons. One, it was early in the day to be talking about lynch candidates, which was basically silver's case:
There's only been one thing in this game that strikes me as legitimately scummy, and that's this post
Looking at what seem to have been the major lynch candidates, I think mcmc and Dylan are scummyish and DatSwan is Towny.
I'm still in the 'early day one' mindest, and regardless of how early it is, I suspect town is more likely to feel like that then scum. Conversely, scum is more likely to have an awareness of who the 'majjor lynch candidates' are.
Put differently, I think town is less likely to think of anyone as a major candidate.
But then faust actually asked a useful question for once.
Looking at what seem to have been the major lynch candidates, I think mcmc and Dylan are scummyish and DatSwan is Towny.
Any reason you put down mcmc as major lynch candidate and not silver (who has the same number of votes)?
No. I'll have a look at silver.
Two things about this.
(1) It was potentially scummy to make a list of major lynch candidates and arbitrarily include and not include two people who have exactly the same number of votes.
(2) Jimmmmm's follow-up on his look at silver is pretty perfunctory:
I'm null on silver.
Vote: Dylan
But the real case is just ... reread him. There's almost no useful contributions, but a lot of votes and just enough fluff and theory talk to not be a lurker. I feel like it's a textbook execution of a particular way of playing scum.
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Look, it's not a slam dunk. But it's better than 50/50.
And I really don't know where Team Galz is coming from. They're also most of the members of Team Doesn't-Explain-Their-Votes.
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Jimmmm is fine, Dylan is also fine.
We do NOT need DatSwan's partner to claim, IMO.
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this is proooobably the wrong time for this but I AM drunk so, for olf times sake...
drunkAMA
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Almost forgot to put it in thread, but I will be VLA from Christmas Eve through New Years Day, the holidays themselves V, in between very LA for working at a conference, but I might be able to at least read and stay kind of caught up.
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this is proooobably the wrong time for this but I AM drunk so, for olf times sake...
drunkAMA
Home from work now. ‘Bout to start.
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this is proooobably the wrong time for this but I AM drunk so, for olf times sake...
drunkAMA
Home from work now. ‘Bout to start.
You ever have Old Forrester's Bourbon? It's my absolute favorite.
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this is proooobably the wrong time for this but I AM drunk so, for olf times sake...
drunkAMA
Home from work now. ‘Bout to start.
You ever have Old Forrester's Bourbon? It's my absolute favorite.
I haven’t... right now I have Willett Reserve, Woodford Reserve & Angel’s Envy... I’ll look into Old Forrester’s... but also, should probably have this in a separate thread lol.
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You're probably right. Anyway, that's a good array of whiskeys. I'm a little jelly.
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Jimmmm is fine, Dylan is also fine.
We do NOT need DatSwan's partner to claim, IMO.
Why did Galz fall off your “fine list”?
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Also jimmmmmm you out there bro beans?
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No lynch would be horrible and I have to leave now until deadline. My problem with the case on jimm is he’s playing like jimm plays. Ugh there is no non jimm or galz thing that’s happening. Im going to vote: galz so him and jimm are at l-2 and I trust people to get one through.
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No lynch would be horrible and I have to leave now until deadline. My problem with the case on jimm is he’s playing like jimm plays. Ugh there is no non jimm or galz thing that’s happening. Im going to vote: galz so him and jimm are at l-2 and I trust people to get one through.
Proposition for you: vote for Jimmmmm instead. Why get two people to L-2 when you could get one person to L-1? Especially after I put all that work into that lovely case for you.
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sheep your town read Robz
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Alright, well I also have to go to bed.
There's five more hours til deadline.
If we end up no lynching, FoS the people who aren't on either wagon. That's ashersky and lalight. Time for you two to make a decision, and preferably the same one.
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It's all about this:
Looking at what seem to have been the major lynch candidates, I think mcmc and Dylan are scummyish and DatSwan is Towny.
Scummy for a few reasons. One, it was early in the day to be talking about lynch candidates, which was basically silver's case:
I guess you thought I meant "the only lynch candidates"? I don't think it's ever too early to be talking about lynch candidates - everyone who isn't an IC or made some claim is a lynch candidate and whenever you vote or make a case you're promoting the lynching of that candidate.
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I'm gonna run a load of laundry so I can travel in the morning, so I can move to Galz if needed to avoid no lynch if only one of the people off wagon come around while I'm up, but I would rather stay on Jimmmmm from a reads perspective. They aren't super far apart on my list, but Jimmm is a few shades scummier.
ppe 1 Oh hi Jimmmmm
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But the real case is just ... reread him. There's almost no useful contributions, but a lot of votes and just enough fluff and theory talk to not be a lurker. I feel like it's a textbook execution of a particular way of playing scum.
This is not a case. I can just easily say it's a textbook execution of a particular way of playing Town.
If you want to lynch me I probably won't fight too hard against it. I'm a fine Day 1 lynch - not a great "catch scum" lynch but a fine "progress the game" lynch. Much better than lynching Swan or forcing the partner to claim.
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I don't have any super strong reads or cases, but what I look for in Day 1 are people who either seem more sure about someone than they should be, or decribe what people do as "weird" etc so they can appear to be scumhunting without actually having to fight argue strongly against someone. So, some thoughts on Dylan:
We really have to give Faust a day 1 pass, at any rate. Let’s not do scum’s job for them. If he’s alive tomorrow—something that quite literally almost never happens—I’ll reconsider.
This feels lining-up-future-mislynches scummy.
As someone mentioned, scum never does this, and I would say this type of argument comes more often from scum than from Town.
Yeah silver's last few posts sounded weird when I first read them, but I guess you can (and frequently do) have reasons for votes in RVS, so an RVS vote with an explanation isn't an oxymoron like I was thinking at first I guess.
Describes silver as weird, but doesn't really conclude anything.
Vote: DatSwan for a reason that I'm not gonna share right now.
This and what follow feel like trying to make arguments he would make as Town.
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Sadly I don't think Dylan can happen today.
I'm here for a little bit, but have to sleep soon.
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Mcmc definitely comes across as the scummiest player to me - his opening post and vote on Swan feel VERY much like he's jumping in by leaning into his "I always fight with Swan" meta (which is DEFINITELY a thing that happens between them). But it's just so bloody obvious that... I can't decide if I feel like Mcmc is faking it, or if he's actually scummy because of it. Because I honestly believe that town!Mcmc would fake it for his own personal reasons, I'm hesitant to consider a lynch here.
Speaking of mcmc, I've found Datswan to be rather scummy as well. He too played in to the "I always fight with Mcmc" meta - but in a way that does NOT read like he's faking it for potentially pro-town reasons. Rather, his play feels much more like he's trying to force a match with his town meta, whereas Mcmc feels like he's almost intentionally being scummy. I would support this lynch.
For now, I think I'm going to join Dylan on vote: Datswan. I think that was, and is, the best wagon we've had today.
I’m confused. Can you elaborate on the underlined portion? I can go on record saying I absolutely do not fake things as town for the purpose of lookin more towny or for the purpose of helping a town or scum meta. It’s strange how you start saying I come across as the scummiest and then say you are hesitant to consider a lynch on me. Then you explain that you also find datswan scummy and even vote datswan. How then do you feel like I was scummy for going at datswan and finding him scummy?
I'll do my best.
When I read the thread, start to finish, and try to remove any pre-conceived bias or reads that I may have already have formed (which, I'll admit, I'm not completely capable of doing), you come across as extremely scummy. So does Datswan. Both of your opening set of posts where you vote for one another feel extremely disengenuous and as you both have a strong established meta of clashing with each other, it feels very forced.
So what's different about my reads on you two? The best I can describe it is that your posts for Swan feel like you're TRYING to be scummy - it feels over the top and obvious. From a town perspective, there are plenty of reasons to want to be slightly scum read. You could be a PR trying to avoid a NK. You could be a VT trying to pull a NK based on the previous sentance. I've seen both from multiple players, in multiple scenario's. I've done the second recently (M117 I think? I was VT and played D1 overly scummy with a very soft Cop claim that scum picked up on N1).
Swan on the other hand, reads more serious. Maybe it's that he came second and you first, but he reads to me like he's playing into the "mcmc and I always fight" meta because he's trying to appear like his town-self. It just doesn't give me the same vibes that there could be an alterior town motivation for playing it out that way.
Both of you open by playing into this same, pre-established meta. I could be over-reading on you, and maybe you're just scum trying to blend in to your town meta, as I'm suspicious of Swan for doing. But for neither of you does this come across as genuine. I just find it easier to believe there's a town motivation for you than I do for Swan.
In the end, for both of you to be town and to have opened the way you both did feels really, really strange to me. I just don't feel it. And I have an easier time seeing you posting in the fashion you did as town than I do seeing Swan posting in the fashion that he did as town - so while I'm hesitant to want to vote you, I have no problem voting Swan.
Last Galz post reads like a super well hidden agenda to get two players he knows are town lynched.
We really have to give Faust a day 1 pass, at any rate. Let’s not do scum’s job for them. If he’s alive tomorrow—something that quite literally almost never happens—I’ll reconsider.
This feels lining-up-future-mislynches scummy.
As someone mentioned, scum never does this, and I would say this type of argument comes more often from scum than from Town.
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I'm glad someone wrote up the actual case on Jimmm, because it feels like more of a case for him being Jimmm than being scum. Not saying he should get a free pass on lurking but what exactly is the deal there? I feel like Jimmmm is maybe slightly less likely to flip scum than random here.
Galz isn't my preferred lynch either, but I'd give him slightly more likely than average to flip scum, based on the big reads post. Inclined to leave my vote there when I go to bed.
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Yeah, that's a big part of why Swan was the first to L-1
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Here. Sorry, got ill and sleeping all the time
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vote: Jimmmmm, L-1 I believe
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But the real case is just ... reread him. There's almost no useful contributions, but a lot of votes and just enough fluff and theory talk to not be a lurker. I feel like it's a textbook execution of a particular way of playing scum.
This is not a case. I can just easily say it's a textbook execution of a particular way of playing Town.
If you want to lynch me I probably won't fight too hard against it. I'm a fine Day 1 lynch - not a great "catch scum" lynch but a fine "progress the game" lynch. Much better than lynching Swan or forcing the partner to claim.
For this post only. This is a really scummy thing to say
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It’s soft claiming VT without any actual reason to and pretending to be not caring. I myself did it in one game and Awaclus caught me on it (i was scum)
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Well, I hope someone on Galz wakes up and switches, cuz I've stayed on as long as I can. I actually like LL's point here and feel good about Jimmmmm's flip as long as someone actually wakes up in time to hammer.
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I'm here!
I guess you guys sorted out the claiming situation. I agree with the way it's being played for now I think. Since I have some hours left and we now have a probably town wagon to analyze, I'll put in some work before any sort of final decision is made.
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But the real case is just ... reread him. There's almost no useful contributions, but a lot of votes and just enough fluff and theory talk to not be a lurker. I feel like it's a textbook execution of a particular way of playing scum.
This is not a case. I can just easily say it's a textbook execution of a particular way of playing Town.
If you want to lynch me I probably won't fight too hard against it. I'm a fine Day 1 lynch - not a great "catch scum" lynch but a fine "progress the game" lynch. Much better than lynching Swan or forcing the partner to claim.
For this post only. This is a really scummy thing to say
That's a pretty convenient excuse to jump on a wagon.
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Well I'll go to sleep then, someone else can hammer Jimmm if they want, i'll leave the Galz option open.
LaLight's point is super dependent on context and timing, and the night of a late-night lynch I don't think it makes any kind of sense as a case but whatever.
Goodnight all
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Okay, I think Jimmmmm is town.
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I'm just going to sit here for a while and hope for ashersky to turn up. And LaLight, I strongly suggest you switch to Galz.
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Well I'll go to sleep then, someone else can hammer Jimmm if they want, i'll leave the Galz option open.
LaLight's point is super dependent on context and timing, and the night of a late-night lynch I don't think it makes any kind of sense as a case but whatever.
Goodnight all
UoS makes a lot of sense here.
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Quick phone post. The lynch candidates post was like 2.5 days before deadline. Not early in the Day at all. Also joth is scummy for saying it's better than 50/50 on me which is clearly not true without a very strong case as there are many fewer scum than Town.
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I'm just going to sit here for a while and hope for ashersky to turn up. And LaLight, I strongly suggest you switch to Galz.
Eh, no, thanks. Looks like you are waiting for even more claims to happen. Why so?
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I'm just going to sit here for a while and hope for ashersky to turn up. And LaLight, I strongly suggest you switch to Galz.
Eh, no, thanks. Looks like you are waiting for even more claims to happen. Why so?
I'm not doing this. Galzria has posted at L-2 and decided not to claim. We can just lynch him.
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Quick phone post. The lynch candidates post was like 2.5 days before deadline. Not early in the Day at all. Also joth is scummy for saying it's better than 50/50 on me which is clearly not true without a very strong case as there are many fewer scum than Town.
Well he's certainly wrong about it, but being bad at probability is not a scumtell.
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Phone psting. Any1 here?
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Phone psting. Any1 here?
Vote Galzria.
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I'm just going to sit here for a while and hope for ashersky to turn up. And LaLight, I strongly suggest you switch to Galz.
Eh, no, thanks. Looks like you are waiting for even more claims to happen. Why so?
I'm not doing this. Galzria has posted at L-2 and decided not to claim. We can just lynch him.
Why would I do that? That serves no positive utility.
Jimmm has posted at L-1 and decided not to claim. You can just lynch him.
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Phone psting. Any1 here?
Vote Galzria.
Vote Jimmm
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I'm just going to sit here for a while and hope for ashersky to turn up. And LaLight, I strongly suggest you switch to Galz.
Eh, no, thanks. Looks like you are waiting for even more claims to happen. Why so?
I'm not doing this. Galzria has posted at L-2 and decided not to claim. We can just lynch him.
Why would I do that? That serves no positive utility.
Jimmm has posted at L-1 and decided not to claim. You can just lynch him.
Yeah but Jimmmmm is town. Also virtually claimed.
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I'm just going to sit here for a while and hope for ashersky to turn up. And LaLight, I strongly suggest you switch to Galz.
Eh, no, thanks. Looks like you are waiting for even more claims to happen. Why so?
I'm not doing this. Galzria has posted at L-2 and decided not to claim. We can just lynch him.
Why would I do that? That serves no positive utility.
Jimmm has posted at L-1 and decided not to claim. You can just lynch him.
Yeah but Jimmmmm is town. Also virtually claimed.
I’m more town, and a worse lynch choice.
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Instead of antagonizing me, maybe you want to convince your supposed top townread of your innocence?
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But jim is good lynch
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But jim is good lynch
No he's not. His wagon is scummy and his play is townie.
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Do you think that Galz is not a good lynch?
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Here's the deal: I am not going to hammer Jimmmmm. It's unclear whether anyone else that will do that will show up. However we do have the votes to lynch Galzria.
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not in particular either way, I don't remember much about galz
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not in particular either way, I don't remember much about galz
So vote Galz. It's better than no lynch, which will likely happen otherwise.
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not in particular either way, I don't remember much about galz
So vote Galz. It's better than no lynch, which will likely happen otherwise.
Only because you refuse to take a lynch when it’s available. Way to shut down the game.
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not in particular either way, I don't remember much about galz
So vote Galz. It's better than no lynch, which will likely happen otherwise.
Only because you refuse to take a lynch when it’s available. Way to shut down the game.
silver and LaLight are refusing to take a lynch that is available every bit as much as I am.
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I'll self hammer instead of no lynch. 1 hour right?
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not in particular either way, I don't remember much about galz
So vote Galz. It's better than no lynch, which will likely happen otherwise.
Only because you refuse to take a lynch when it’s available. Way to shut down the game.
silver and LaLight are refusing to take a lynch that is available every bit as much as I am.
They’re voting for a player who’s actually had a case built against them, instead of with someone who’s had 25% of his posts read “Just vote Galzria” and hasn’t put any effort or reasons behind why.
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I'll self hammer instead of no lynch. 1 hour right?
Come on don't do this to me.
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Self-hammer is strictly worse than no lynch.
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Self-hammer is strictly worse than no lynch.
This is true.
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not in particular either way, I don't remember much about galz
So vote Galz. It's better than no lynch, which will likely happen otherwise.
Only because you refuse to take a lynch when it’s available. Way to shut down the game.
silver and LaLight are refusing to take a lynch that is available every bit as much as I am.
They’re voting for a player who’s actually had a case built against them, instead of with someone who’s had 25% of his posts read “Just vote Galzria” and hasn’t put any effort or reasons behind why.
Well they would be voting for someone who apparently cannot argue for his own townieness without having some case to argue against.
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Why?
Still out and on phone btw
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Self-hammer is strictly worse than no lynch.
why
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Why?
Still out and on phone btw
We want to lynch someone with a chance of being scum. You know that you are not scum. Lynching a known town only serves scum. (Yes the rest of us would get "information" but that's no worth it.) Also we are an even number right now so no lynch is less bad than it would be normally because it doesn't cost us a lynch.
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Self-hammer is strictly worse than no lynch.
This is true.
Says skum
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Self-hammer is strictly worse than no lynch.
This is true.
Says skum
Continuing your trend of 100% pointless posts this game? Seems right.
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Self-hammer is strictly worse than no lynch.
This is true.
Says skum
Continuing your trend of 100% pointless posts this game? Seems right.
Right for my skum Meta you mean yeah?
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not in particular either way, I don't remember much about galz
So vote Galz. It's better than no lynch, which will likely happen otherwise.
Only because you refuse to take a lynch when it’s available. Way to shut down the game.
silver and LaLight are refusing to take a lynch that is available every bit as much as I am.
They’re voting for a player who’s actually had a case built against them, instead of with someone who’s had 25% of his posts read “Just vote Galzria” and hasn’t put any effort or reasons behind why.
Well they would be voting for someone who apparently cannot argue for his own townieness without having some case to argue against.
Arguing why one is town is something scum does, not something town does.
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Self-hammer is strictly worse than no lynch.
This is true.
Says skum
Continuing your trend of 100% pointless posts this game? Seems right.
Right for my skum Meta you mean yeah?
Right as in “every post you’ve made this game has been pointless”.
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not in particular either way, I don't remember much about galz
So vote Galz. It's better than no lynch, which will likely happen otherwise.
Only because you refuse to take a lynch when it’s available. Way to shut down the game.
silver and LaLight are refusing to take a lynch that is available every bit as much as I am.
They’re voting for a player who’s actually had a case built against them, instead of with someone who’s had 25% of his posts read “Just vote Galzria” and hasn’t put any effort or reasons behind why.
Well they would be voting for someone who apparently cannot argue for his own townieness without having some case to argue against.
Arguing why one is town is something scum does, not something town does.
BS. Anyway got to go. Bye.
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Self-hammer is strictly worse than no lynch.
This is true.
Says skum
Continuing your trend of 100% pointless posts this game? Seems right.
Right for my skum Meta you mean yeah?
Right as in “every post you’ve made this game has been pointless”.
Mhm
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not in particular either way, I don't remember much about galz
So vote Galz. It's better than no lynch, which will likely happen otherwise.
Only because you refuse to take a lynch when it’s available. Way to shut down the game.
silver and LaLight are refusing to take a lynch that is available every bit as much as I am.
They’re voting for a player who’s actually had a case built against them, instead of with someone who’s had 25% of his posts read “Just vote Galzria” and hasn’t put any effort or reasons behind why.
The case on you is based on you avoiding interaction. You have not been present except for the first 24 hours and the last 24 hours. It makes a perfect fefense for not being held accountable for any actions or non action throughout a day in the game where the more you talk the more you are noticed.
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not in particular either way, I don't remember much about galz
So vote Galz. It's better than no lynch, which will likely happen otherwise.
Only because you refuse to take a lynch when it’s available. Way to shut down the game.
silver and LaLight are refusing to take a lynch that is available every bit as much as I am.
They’re voting for a player who’s actually had a case built against them, instead of with someone who’s had 25% of his posts read “Just vote Galzria” and hasn’t put any effort or reasons behind why.
The case on you is based on you avoiding interaction. You have not been present except for the first 24 hours and the last 24 hours. It makes a perfect fefense for not being held accountable for any actions or non action throughout a day in the game where the more you talk the more you are noticed.
Rich, coming from someone with fewer posts, fewer reads, and fewer interactions than me.
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not in particular either way, I don't remember much about galz
So vote Galz. It's better than no lynch, which will likely happen otherwise.
Only because you refuse to take a lynch when it’s available. Way to shut down the game.
silver and LaLight are refusing to take a lynch that is available every bit as much as I am.
They’re voting for a player who’s actually had a case built against them, instead of with someone who’s had 25% of his posts read “Just vote Galzria” and hasn’t put any effort or reasons behind why.
My point, as i assume you are aware, was about the timing.
The case on you is based on you avoiding interaction. You have not been present except for the first 24 hours and the last 24 hours. It makes a perfect fefense for not being held accountable for any actions or non action throughout a day in the game where the more you talk the more you are noticed.
Rich, coming from someone with fewer posts, fewer reads, and fewer interactions than me.
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not in particular either way, I don't remember much about galz
So vote Galz. It's better than no lynch, which will likely happen otherwise.
Only because you refuse to take a lynch when it’s available. Way to shut down the game.
silver and LaLight are refusing to take a lynch that is available every bit as much as I am.
They’re voting for a player who’s actually had a case built against them, instead of with someone who’s had 25% of his posts read “Just vote Galzria” and hasn’t put any effort or reasons behind why.
The case on you is based on you avoiding interaction. You have not been present except for the first 24 hours and the last 24 hours. It makes a perfect fefense for not being held accountable for any actions or non action throughout a day in the game where the more you talk the more you are noticed.
Rich, coming from someone with fewer posts, fewer reads, and fewer interactions than me.
I mean, that’s not even a case. That’s LALL, which wouldn’t even apply as I have more posts than everyone except Joth, Faust & Silver.
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not in particular either way, I don't remember much about galz
So vote Galz. It's better than no lynch, which will likely happen otherwise.
Only because you refuse to take a lynch when it’s available. Way to shut down the game.
silver and LaLight are refusing to take a lynch that is available every bit as much as I am.
They’re voting for a player who’s actually had a case built against them, instead of with someone who’s had 25% of his posts read “Just vote Galzria” and hasn’t put any effort or reasons behind why.
My point, as i assume you are aware, was about the timing.
The case on you is based on you avoiding interaction. You have not been present except for the first 24 hours and the last 24 hours. It makes a perfect fefense for not being held accountable for any actions or non action throughout a day in the game where the more you talk the more you are noticed.
Rich, coming from someone with fewer posts, fewer reads, and fewer interactions than me.
Jesus - retry:
“My point, as i assume you are aware, was about the timing.
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Half an hour, right?
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not in particular either way, I don't remember much about galz
So vote Galz. It's better than no lynch, which will likely happen otherwise.
Only because you refuse to take a lynch when it’s available. Way to shut down the game.
silver and LaLight are refusing to take a lynch that is available every bit as much as I am.
They’re voting for a player who’s actually had a case built against them, instead of with someone who’s had 25% of his posts read “Just vote Galzria” and hasn’t put any effort or reasons behind why.
The case on you is based on you avoiding interaction. You have not been present except for the first 24 hours and the last 24 hours. It makes a perfect fefense for not being held accountable for any actions or non action throughout a day in the game where the more you talk the more you are noticed.
Rich, coming from someone with fewer posts, fewer reads, and fewer interactions than me.
I mean, that’s not even a case. That’s LALL, which wouldn’t even apply as I have more posts than everyone except Joth, Faust & Silver.
Of course it matters. It’s a brilliant strategy. Wait until all viable wagons are established and then come in at end of day to be able to say you have more content. The fact is most players i the game have given something to TR them for - not based on their quantity - but their consistency.
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Half an hour, right?
Correvt
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not in particular either way, I don't remember much about galz
So vote Galz. It's better than no lynch, which will likely happen otherwise.
Only because you refuse to take a lynch when it’s available. Way to shut down the game.
silver and LaLight are refusing to take a lynch that is available every bit as much as I am.
They’re voting for a player who’s actually had a case built against them, instead of with someone who’s had 25% of his posts read “Just vote Galzria” and hasn’t put any effort or reasons behind why.
My point, as i assume you are aware, was about the timing.
The case on you is based on you avoiding interaction. You have not been present except for the first 24 hours and the last 24 hours. It makes a perfect fefense for not being held accountable for any actions or non action throughout a day in the game where the more you talk the more you are noticed.
Rich, coming from someone with fewer posts, fewer reads, and fewer interactions than me.
Jesus - retry:
“My point, as i assume you are aware, was about the timing.
And as the time I was absent - mostly over the weekend - is a time that I NEVER post in any game, have a permanent stated VLA about, and made one specifically in this game as requested by Space... again, I fail to understand your justification for this “case” which simply doesn’t exist.
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So datswan if you swit h then jim is lynched?
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So datswan if you swit h then jim is lynched?
Not happening
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So datswan if you swit h then jim is lynched?
Not happening
Meh that was an ego post. Still deciding.
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If I switched woul it rneen be enough?
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Dunno I’m checking. I think still short.
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Vote Count 1.10
silverspawn (1): ashersky
Jimmmmm (6): silverspawn, Galzria, Robz888, Dylan32, jotheonah, LaLight
Galzria (5): faust, DatSwan, Jimmmmm, UmbrageOfSnow, mcmcsalot
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
D1 ends in ~17 minutes.
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Jim you here?
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It wouldn't. So unless someone else shows up, I think you gotta switch
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Jim!
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... I can't believe this is still happening.
Is there any situation where DatSwan is this stubborn unless he's scum that doesn't want to bus? That's the main thing keeping me from switching to get a lynch through. (Sorry Galz)
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... I can't believe this is still happening.
Is there any situation where DatSwan is this stubborn unless he's scum that doesn't want to bus? That's the main thing keeping me from switching to get a lynch through. (Sorry Galz)
What about you???
I have been pushing this ish all day!
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No idea
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... I can't believe this is still happening.
Is there any situation where DatSwan is this stubborn unless he's scum that doesn't want to bus? That's the main thing keeping me from switching to get a lynch through. (Sorry Galz)
Swan stated earlier that Jimmm was his second choice. Then bumped him to third. Now drags his feet when the lynch is at deadline.
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I know who my partner is plus Jim wagon movements plus Galz wagon movements plus other shot makes me thing Galz skum jimmm not.
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That is suspicious
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Logging off. gL
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I'm here but have been talked out of self hammering
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Ok vote: galz
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I mean, if DatSwan and Jimmmmm ARE scum partners (with someone who's already asleep and on the Galz wagon) and Swan claimed Mason with the intention of going with the scumbuddy claims Mason partner in a pinch gambit, and the gambit went horribly wrong, it would look something like this? But then why wouldn't Jimmmmm have done his part and claimed other Mason ages ago?
PPE: He is sooooooo scum but vote: Galzria. NL is bad. If we ARE in a Jimmmmm and DatSwan are scumbuddies situation, we'll be able to sort it out tomorrow.
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Lynched the cop.
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Late claim
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If thats true then you should have claimed
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Late claim
There was less than 60 between L1 and lynch.
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Late claim
There was less than 60 between L1 and lynch.
Seconds
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If thats true then you should have claimed
Not at L2 with Jimmm at L1. But Swan and Faust were being ridiculously anti town stubborn
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Given a 50/50 just before DL that's not surprising.
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I REALLY hope you're scum messing with us. Galz I think if it's ~5m before deadline you claim at L-2! ugh or we just got played hard by scum. ugh ugh ugh
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c'mon flipflipflipflipflip I want to go back to bed
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I REALLY hope you're scum messing with us. Galz I think if it's ~5m before deadline you claim at L-2! ugh or we just got played hard by scum. ugh ugh ugh
Not scum, not messing with you.
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I’m only 1Shot though. Single C roll.
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Vote Count 1.final
silverspawn (1): ashersky
Galzria (7): faust, DatSwan, Jimmmmm, UmbrageOfSnow, mcmcsalot, silverspawn, jotheonah
Jimmmmm (4): Galzria, Robz888, Dylan32, LaLight
With 12 alive, it tool 7 to lynch.
Galz was Policajt na jedno použití, the one-shot cop.
"Strč prst skrz krk" means "stick a finger through the throat", and is a famous Czech sentence that has no vowels. Violent bunch, huh?
Sleep well and have a restful N1.
N1 begins now and ends at 7pm Czech time/1pm Forum Time on Friday 21st Dec. Night actions due by 6pm Czech time/noon Forum Time.
Thread Locked.
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Dobré ráno všem!
That wasn't the most peaceful night for our little Vesnice...
Ashersky was killed in the night. He was a prostý vesničan, a simple villager (VT).
Czech fact: in Czech, it's always the first syllable of a word that is stressed. For example, a typical Czech greeting is "Ahoj". It sounds like "Ah-hoy" instead of the typical English "uh-HOY". In my experience, learning to pronounce it correctly confuses Czech native speakers, who don't expect it from foreigners :-)
Vote Count 2.0
Not voting (10): faust, LaLight, Robz888, mcmcsalot, DatSwan, Jimmmmm, UmbrageOfSnow, jotheonah, silverspawn, Dylan32
With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
D2 ends on Saturday 29th December at 7pm Czech time (1pm forum time). (This includes one extra day for 25th December, for those celebrating Christmas).
Thread Unlocked.
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I think I'd like to vote: faust
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I was going to be there for the Day end, but I accidentally fell asleep. Good news: I'm perfectly healthy as of now
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No lynch would be horrible and I have to leave now until deadline. My problem with the case on jimm is he’s playing like jimm plays. Ugh there is no non jimm or galz thing that’s happening. Im going to vote: galz so him and jimm are at l-2 and I trust people to get one through.
Rereading from bottom to top.
Disclaimer: I am biased, I can even feel it, but this post is wrong on so many levels.
vote: mcmcsalot
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something in faust's posts seem very, very off, I quoted 2 of them but couldn't put my finger onto a single reason why
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Instead of antagonizing me, maybe you want to convince your supposed top townread of your innocence?
this
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I'll self hammer instead of no lynch. 1 hour right?
Come on don't do this to me.
and this
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i think they feel too emotionally personal for the faust I'm used to?
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I agree that faust is feeling substantially different from normal. The problem is, he's feeling different from both his town and his scum self
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I agree that faust is feeling substantially different from normal. The problem is, he's feeling different from both his town and his scum self
Yes, exactly! That's why something in me really wants to vote for him, but something tells me it's not a scumtell
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also for god's sake why kill ashersky :(
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also for god's sake why kill ashersky :(
I'm quite happy about that actually. Though confused.
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Vote: silverspawn
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vote: faust
at least have the decency to be apologetic about having persuaded me to get a cop lynched
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ashes kill isn't really that strange. skum knows mason claim is true and found out 1 shot cop was in the game. They also are gonna know which PRs they have... which could pretty much be:
TTTT = 1-Shot Strongman; Roleblocker
TTT = 1-Shot Strongman; Roleblocker
TT = Strongman; Roleblocker
T = Strongman; Roleblocker
0 Ts = Strongman; Roleblocker; 1-Shot Bulletproof****
As it states in the opening thread - neither me nor my partner know if we were UB converted or not. However, it is seemingly unimportant to this point as the only difference between 4-Ts (single M role) and 4 T's (double M role), would be the existence of the UB.
Whatever... what that boils down to for me is that they probably did not make the choice based off of PR stuff. So why kill ashes? - because ashes was off the wagons.
I think that they killed ashes primarily to prevent information to be gathered from VCA on the day. Not that that is worth too much really, but it is my thought on the matter.
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also, more reasons to follow, but starting off with a
Vote:mcmc
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I'd add a whitespace
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I'd add a whitespace
I can’t win with the votes this game!
Vote: mcmc
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Ash and and galz being dead means me, Dylan, LL are the only off wagon folks.
I feel like we should really scrutinize the Galz wagon, but I also feel like one of LL or Dylan is very likely to be scum by POE.
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Of course an incredibly skillful on-wagon scumteam could have killed ash to focus attention on the few remaining off wagoners.
I have to read. I do agree mcmc and Faust feel scummy. I hate the Galz lynch, but I was not around to help fight it so that’s on me.
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ashes kill isn't really that strange. skum knows mason claim is true and found out 1 shot cop was in the game. They also are gonna know which PRs they have... which could pretty much be:
TTTT = 1-Shot Strongman; Roleblocker
TTT = 1-Shot Strongman; Roleblocker
TT = Strongman; Roleblocker
T = Strongman; Roleblocker
0 Ts = Strongman; Roleblocker; 1-Shot Bulletproof****
As it states in the opening thread - neither me nor my partner know if we were UB converted or not. However, it is seemingly unimportant to this point as the only difference between 4-Ts (single M role) and 4 T's (double M role), would be the existence of the UB.
Whatever... what that boils down to for me is that they probably did not make the choice based off of PR stuff. So why kill ashes? - because ashes was off the wagons.
I think that they killed ashes primarily to prevent information to be gathered from VCA on the day. Not that that is worth too much really, but it is my thought on the matter.
A double M roll would be an IC instead of masons. Masons + UB would be a triple M roll, which would have a much bigger impact on the rolls, since a triple M roll would leave us at MMMC**, rather than MC****. So a UB being in the game seems to make the mason claim a bit weaker.
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Reading how the day went after I hit the wall and went to bed, even when you ignore the fact Galz was actually the cop, the Jimmmmm wagon feels townier just by nature of the way it stalled out and noone would hammer. If any scum were on Galz or off either wagon, it was close enough to the deadline to where hammering for the sake of making sure a lynch went through would have been pretty easy and probably at least a few town points, because scum would have been totally ok with a no lynch. If Jimmmmm is actually scum, faust and Swan would be super scummy for stubbornly refusing to switch, even when there was no guarantee someone else was going to be coming online to actually get a lynch through. Swan had included Jimmmmm in his top 3 lynch choices behind Galz and along with Robz, but then the way he refuses to actually switch to Jimmmmm when the chips were down feels more like trying to protect a scum partner that you weren't planning on being the one that would co-claim masons with you later. Distance yourself to not be tied together by buddying while mason claiming the other partner, but then not wanting to actually hammer that partner.
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ashes kill isn't really that strange. skum knows mason claim is true and found out 1 shot cop was in the game. They also are gonna know which PRs they have... which could pretty much be:
TTTT = 1-Shot Strongman; Roleblocker
TTT = 1-Shot Strongman; Roleblocker
TT = Strongman; Roleblocker
T = Strongman; Roleblocker
0 Ts = Strongman; Roleblocker; 1-Shot Bulletproof****
As it states in the opening thread - neither me nor my partner know if we were UB converted or not. However, it is seemingly unimportant to this point as the only difference between 4-Ts (single M role) and 4 T's (double M role), would be the existence of the UB.
Whatever... what that boils down to for me is that they probably did not make the choice based off of PR stuff. So why kill ashes? - because ashes was off the wagons.
I think that they killed ashes primarily to prevent information to be gathered from VCA on the day. Not that that is worth too much really, but it is my thought on the matter.
A double M roll would be an IC instead of masons. Masons + UB would be a triple M roll, which would have a much bigger impact on the rolls, since a triple M roll would leave us at MMMC**, rather than MC****. So a UB being in the game seems to make the mason claim a bit weaker.
ah correct you are. most likely not a UB then.
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Reading how the day went after I hit the wall and went to bed, even when you ignore the fact Galz was actually the cop, the Jimmmmm wagon feels townier just by nature of the way it stalled out and noone would hammer. If any scum were on Galz or off either wagon, it was close enough to the deadline to where hammering for the sake of making sure a lynch went through would have been pretty easy and probably at least a few town points, because scum would have been totally ok with a no lynch. If Jimmmmm is actually scum, faust and Swan would be super scummy for stubbornly refusing to switch, even when there was no guarantee someone else was going to be coming online to actually get a lynch through. Swan had included Jimmmmm in his top 3 lynch choices behind Galz and along with Robz, but then the way he refuses to actually switch to Jimmmmm when the chips were down feels more like trying to protect a scum partner that you weren't planning on being the one that would co-claim masons with you later. Distance yourself to not be tied together by buddying while mason claiming the other partner, but then not wanting to actually hammer that partner.
this is a reverse logic post. it is far more likely that skum logged off for the night leaving the wagons as they were (as you said, being fine if it went no lynch) then me choosing not to switch onto Jimmm wagon if me and Jimm are both skum. Think about it for a second... like the one thing I would want to avoid as skum in this spot is having to go to the point where I have to claim a partner. The easiest way to avoid that would be to be a driving force for skum. If Jimm is skum and I am also skum, I would of absolutely smashed Jimmm for the cred... as would any skum in that spot.
your over simplification, as well as the accusation, is skummy. The over simplification for the above stated points. But the accusation is strange - far off shot, but if you were skum with Jimmm this would be a great defense for you to make in case Jimmm were to flip so you could try to set up a future mis lynch on me.
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actually... it is super skummy
Vote: Dylan
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vote: faust
at least have the decency to be apologetic about having persuaded me to get a cop lynched
You could have the decency to own up to your role in the lynching. BUt no, you choose to present yourself as the innocent victim even though you were the one who ultimately decided the Jimmmmm vs Galz situation.
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vote: faust
at least have the decency to be apologetic about having persuaded me to get a cop lynched
You could have the decency to own up to your role in the lynching. BUt no, you choose to present yourself as the innocent victim even though you were the one who ultimately decided the Jimmmmm vs Galz situation.
That is just a flat out lie. What's wrong with you? I had the choice between galz and a no-lynch, not between galz and Jimmm. You must know this if you read the EoD.
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No reasonable player lets a no lynch happen day 1. I do not accept even a 1% responsibility for having lynched a PR.
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But jim is good lynch
No he's not. His wagon is scummy and his play is townie.
Here's the deal: I am not going to hammer Jimmmmm. It's unclear whether anyone else that will do that will show up. However we do have the votes to lynch Galzria.
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You can be wrong about galz, that's fine, but don't lie about it.
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There's only been one thing in this game that strikes me as legitimately scummy, and that's this post
Looking at what seem to have been the major lynch candidates, I think mcmc and Dylan are scummyish and DatSwan is Towny.
I'm still in the 'early day one' mindest, and regardless of how early it is, I suspect town is more likely to feel like that then scum. Conversely, scum is more likely to have an awareness of who the 'majjor lynch candidates' are.
Put differently, I think town is less likely to think of anyone as a major candidate.
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I'm just going to sit here for a while and hope for ashersky to turn up. And LaLight, I strongly suggest you switch to Galz.
Eh, no, thanks. Looks like you are waiting for even more claims to happen. Why so?
I'm not doing this. Galzria has posted at L-2 and decided not to claim. We can just lynch him.
Phone psting. Any1 here?
Vote Galzria.
I'm just going to sit here for a while and hope for ashersky to turn up. And LaLight, I strongly suggest you switch to Galz.
Eh, no, thanks. Looks like you are waiting for even more claims to happen. Why so?
I'm not doing this. Galzria has posted at L-2 and decided not to claim. We can just lynch him.
Why would I do that? That serves no positive utility.
Jimmm has posted at L-1 and decided not to claim. You can just lynch him.
Yeah but Jimmmmm is town. Also virtually claimed.
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I’m going to be even more LA than I thought, because my phone does not get data and the wife is understandably not crazy about a lot of mafia during the honeymoon.
I like Dylan’s DatSwan case, mostly because I also found him crazy scummy end of day and I think it’s a mistake to give the mason claim a ton of towncred weight. Like if Jimmm and Datswan has actually claimed mason together, that would be one thing— I don’t think day one scum is that bold. But I think they could totally be scum who had a really bad day. After all, if anyone BUT Jimmmm has been the next L-1 that would have gone better for him.
The fact is, Jimmmmm said he’d self hammer and then didn’t. Swan said he’d hammer Jimmmm and then didn’t. Day 1 ended at 2 minutes before deadline.
Also even though the timing was nutso, I do want to apologize for hammering without allowing a claim. I was up at 4:30 am, silver’s post came in as a PPE, and I wasn’t thinking 100 percent clearly. I still think, given the circumstances it was the right move and I still would have greatly preferred a Jimmm lynch.
Totally fine lynching faust, Swan, or Jim. For now, vote: Swan
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@Joth: I think your hammer was fine, I'd do the same.
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@faust
Okay, I've thought about this, and I think this is less harmful than helpful and better than a mass claim, and prevents us from getting too late into the day with this unsaid before throwing everything into chaos at the end. I think you should answer, especially with your survival-to-end-of-game track record anyway. Only thing I'm giving up by saying this isn't worth holding onto at this point I think:
Faust, Yes or No, are you a Mason?
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I’m going to be even more LA than I thought, because my phone does not get data and the wife is understandably not crazy about a lot of mafia during the honeymoon.
I like Dylan’s DatSwan case, mostly because I also found him crazy scummy end of day and I think it’s a mistake to give the mason claim a ton of towncred weight. Like if Jimmm and Datswan has actually claimed mason together, that would be one thing— I don’t think day one scum is that bold. But I think they could totally be scum who had a really bad day. After all, if anyone BUT Jimmmm has been the next L-1 that would have gone better for him.
The fact is, Jimmmmm said he’d self hammer and then didn’t. Swan said he’d hammer Jimmmm and then didn’t. Day 1 ended at 2 minutes before deadline.
Also even though the timing was nutso, I do want to apologize for hammering without allowing a claim. I was up at 4:30 am, silver’s post came in as a PPE, and I wasn’t thinking 100 percent clearly. I still think, given the circumstances it was the right move and I still would have greatly preferred a Jimmm lynch.
Totally fine lynching faust, Swan, or Jim. For now, vote: Swan
correction - Swan explicitly stated he would not hammer Jimm and then logged off.
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Also, all the talk of the hammer(s) being potentially skummy is nonsense. Galz was sitting there at L2 aware if the potential lynch. They chose not to claim... which actually is probably the right play given that they were a cop in that spot... but as they did not claim... I do not see how Joth/SS get skum points "because Galz was a PR".
If anything... maybe because "Galz was Town"... but like... whether the hammer(s) are Town or Skum... they have had no way of knowing Galz was a Cop.
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Yeah, the claiming stuff isn't a valid point, either.
Despite how bad the galz lynch was, I actually don't think the EoD makes Jimmy particularly more scummy than he was at the previous day, though. Right now I think I'd most like to lynch faust
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OK, so I am switching again. A few things have become apparent to me from reading back:
1) DerSwan needs to be added to my alias list
2) DarSwan needs to be added to my alias list
3) Snow is skummy.
After sitting on Dylan all day, they switch to me - the only player that Dylan has attempted to make a case against the entire day 1.
The total and complete lack of interest in Dylan has me itching to lynch Dylan more and more.
That said, I'd prefer DerSwan to Jimmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, so
Vote: DatSwan
L-2
Then my Mason claim.
Then this Vote Count:
Vote Count 1.8
DatSwan (4): Dylan32, jotheonah, UmbrageOfSnow, mcmcsalot
silverspawn (1): ashersky
mcmcsalot (1): LaLight
Jimmmmm (3): silverspawn, Galzria, Robz888
Galzria (3): faust, DatSwan, Jimmmmm
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
D1 ends at 11am Czech time (5am Forum Time) on Thursday 20th December. That's in ~9.5 hours.
Then Dylan and Joth both switch from me to Jimmm, and Snow switches from me to Galz. Leaving it at:
Jimmmmm (5): silverspawn, Galzria, Robz888, Dylan, Joth
Galzria (4): faust, DatSwan, Jimmmmm, Snow
So essentially:
1) Spends the day on Dylan
2) Votes for Dylan's one and only skum read (me) when the Dylan wagon died a long time off
3) I claim
3) Follows me onto Galz instead of going for Jimmm, making wagons 5-4.
That doesn't make sense.
Snow who do you think is skummy - Me? Dylan? No one?
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Vote: UmbrageOfSnow
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No reasonable player lets a no lynch happen day 1. I do not accept even a 1% responsibility for having lynched a PR.
Exactly. So you know I would not have and you know that I was bluffing. Still you went along with it.
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Faust, Yes or No, are you a Mason?
Yes
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Faust, Yes or No, are you a Mason?
Yes
ugh unvote
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No reasonable player lets a no lynch happen day 1. I do not accept even a 1% responsibility for having lynched a PR.
Exactly. So you know I would not have and you know that I was bluffing. Still you went along with it.
no... because you presumably went to sleep.
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Vote Count 2.1
mcmcsalot (1): LaLight
silverspawn (1): faust
DatSwan (1): jotheonah
UmbrageOfSnow (1): DatSwan
Not Voting (6): Robz888, mcmcsalot, Jimmmmm, UmbrageOfSnow, Dylan32, silverspawn
With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
D2 ends on Saturday 29th December at 7pm Czech time (1pm forum time).
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No reasonable player lets a no lynch happen day 1. I do not accept even a 1% responsibility for having lynched a PR.
Exactly. So you know I would not have and you know that I was bluffing. Still you went along with it.
no... because you presumably went to sleep.
I'm not generally in a habit of going to sleep at 10 am. Also my Mason partner assured me he would be around to see it through.
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Ah right, it was in the morning.
Fine, mb I could have questioned whether you were bluffing, but in fact I just took it as fact.
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Sorry all. Should have time to post more soon.
Would lynch: Dylan, joth.
Would not lynch: Swan, faust, ss.
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Faust, Yes or No, are you a Mason?
Yes
Whoa. Setup question: do masons have daychat? Does scum? I’m on
Mobile or I would check the starting post myself.
Also I thought Jimmmm softclaimed mason at the end of the day. Did I read that wrong or are we talking about a three-mason team?
PPE: Nice OMGUS Jim.
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PPE: Nice OMGUS Jim.
That's a bit silly.
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Setup question: do masons have daychat? Does scum?
If masons exist, they can use their QT(s) in both day and night phases.
Scum can talk at night but do not have daychat.
Also I thought Jimmmm softclaimed mason at the end of the day. Did I read that wrong or are we talking about a three-mason team?
PPE: Nice OMGUS Jim.
OMGUS loses all meaning if you use it every time someone suspects one of their detractors.
I thought Jim pretty clearly softed VT.
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Ah right, it was in the morning.
Fine, mb I could have questioned whether you were bluffing, but in fact I just took it as fact.
When I read how the end of day went down, I took faust's threat as serious (and a bit potentially game-throwing) too, despite thinking of faust as a normally reasonable person unlikely to do such things even as scum.
It was pretty well-acted I think.
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@Swan: Look at what you wrote and think about what motive someone could possibly have to vote the way I did.
I feel like the "I'm not voting for X because my scumread is voting for them" type reads are bad 70% of the time anyway, and here that is metastasizing into something quite silly.
I'm not trying to be condescending (I think my first draft of this post was super condescending and I'm trying not to be) but I'm leaving this as an exercise to the reader, you earlier asked me what my town reads were in I think a similar spirit, and that's how I mean this, it feels like you're reading at the most surface level and not thinking about motives.
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Unvote
I need to re-examine day 1 in light of new information and shedding of old assumptions.
@Swan: why were you so opposed to the Jimmmm lynch that you would have let yesterday go to a noblynch rather than switch? That’s really the most important question I have.
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Unvote
I need to re-examine day 1 in light of new information and shedding of old assumptions.
@Swan: why were you so opposed to the Jimmmm lynch that you would have let yesterday go to a noblynch rather than switch? That’s really the most important question I have.
I literally was PPEing Jim when the double switch happened. I said i was logging off to force the 2x switch bc at the time i really thought Galz was best. I was not off. Idk how you check but i believe there is a way - so you can check me on that if you know how.
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I thought Jimm was the other Mason. Datswan was communicating that, as far as I can recall.
I’m tempted to say this Mason scheme is a lie! Though that’s probably too crazy.
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Faust is the other mason - would like specifics on why robs thinks it was telegraphed as jimm.
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Faust is the other mason - would like specifics on why robs thinks it was telegraphed as jimm.
Yeah I have no idea.
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I just had a dream, that faust was Mason AND IC, but we lynched him and he was scum
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I mean, I also thought Swan was lowkey communicating Jimmmmm as mason partner based on how staunch Swan's refusal to switch was, especially after his 'Jimmmmm would be my 2nd, no 3rd choice,' and then suddenly no it's Galz or bust. And that's why I was reading it as scummy. But yeah, rereading and Jim does sort of softclaim VT with his whole "not the worst lynch" schtick. Faust refusing to switch would also make sense in the context of Jimmmmm being the other scum partner, but idk. If anyone would, faust would probably be willing to bus there for the cred.
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I thought Jimm was the other Mason. Datswan was communicating that, as far as I can recall.
I’m tempted to say this Mason scheme is a lie! Though that’s probably too crazy.
I’m glad it wasn’t just me! And I’m not sure it’s too crazy. Also I’m not sure we can afford to just accept it on faith. The problem is, if it’s faust and not Jimmmm then we’re now asserting that the entire scum team has tied itself together, since part of the case on Swan was his refusal to lynch Jimmmm. I can buy two scum tying themselves together in a gambit, but three is really ballsy.
Note that if Swan and Faust really are masons, then we have no particular reason to believe Jimmm is town.
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I mean, I also thought Swan was lowkey communicating Jimmmmm as mason partner based on how staunch Swan's refusal to switch was, especially after his 'Jimmmmm would be my 2nd, no 3rd choice,' and then suddenly no it's Galz or bust. And that's why I was reading it as scummy. But yeah, rereading and Jim does sort of softclaim VT with his whole "not the worst lynch" schtick. Faust refusing to switch would also make sense in the context of Jimmmmm being the other scum partner, but idk. If anyone would, faust would probably be willing to bus there for the cred.
I guess I thought “not the worst lynch” was referring to the fact that his flip would IC Swan, and if Swan got NK’d it would soak up a kill that could have hit a more powerful role.
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I would suggest that if people have that kind of time, they should reread D1 in the light of new information. I would like some more substantial reads.
Also do people think about the way my claim was adressed?
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I would suggest that if people have that kind of time, they should reread D1 in the light of new information. I would like some more substantial reads.
Also do people think about the way my claim was adressed?
I really didn't like it actually, why would UoS ask this that way? Also why would you answer directly, but this is another question
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I would suggest that if people have that kind of time, they should reread D1 in the light of new information. I would like some more substantial reads.
Also do people think about the way my claim was adressed?
rereading for some time now. We just switched offices on my work and I just got internet and it's literally the first thing i am doing
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Also, Hi LaLight, Faust, everyone else! Good to be back. I'm trying to only commit to one game at a time and only occasionally, but I intend to join more in the next year too.
Am I seeing too much here as he addressed two (for me) conf!towns?
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meh, read Galzria's opening post as scummy, then remembered
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I think I am settled on 99% believing DS and faust are Masons.
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Also, Vote: Robz for hating D1 and never participating. D1 is as useful, and often moreso than almost any other day as it establishes the baseline for the rest of the game to follow.
And the baseline you seek to establish is policy voting?
He's given me no reason to believe he's not scum. That can be said of others, too, mind you - but as Robz won't play D1 unless given a reason, yes, I'm perfectly content with that vote right now.
Fair, but I am intending to play this day 1 anyway. I’m going to surprise you!
Did this happen in the end?
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for some reasons I can't put my finger on Joth. He reads townie, but I don't know, can't feel him
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I’m caught up, joth and silver looks strongly like town v town.
vote: datswan
Their “woah lots going on” feels like scum surprised by the amount of discussion vs town. Town is likely to be excited and specific versus scum who would be general and dismissive.
This as well seems a little forced
But do you disagree with my thought?
I do, actually. There was a lot of posts, when he came, No matter what alignment a person is, they could say woah it's a lot of posts for numerous reasons. Why would scum be surprised about the amount of townies discussion? There's more town people than there's scums. Even given that town would be more specific which is also not really true, or it would be really easy to catch scums.
All in all looks like you tried to develop a read out of nowhere
I am pointing here, again.
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Meanwhile, I've found that cases based on defensiveness -- especially off-meta defensiveness -- are often good day one cases.
I strongly disagree. Being defensive and challenging votes helps keep the game active and is good pro-town play. I have seen scum trying to ignore votes on them way more often because they don't want to draw additional attention to themselves. Plus I support DatSwan in that this isn't off-meta for him.
Right, unless they decided on N0 to fakeclaim masons (which would be a weird thing to do), I believe the claim. This is so awesome. Can we lynch mcmc now plzthnks
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ashersky kill is still a weird thing, I can't see him even softclaiming anything. I remember the game in asher9++ when he softclaimed UB, while being VT to draw the kill (successfully). Nothing like this this time
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Looking at what seem to have been the major lynch candidates, I think mcmc and Dylan are scummyish and DatSwan is Towny.
Is it possible it is a partner call? Jimmmmm/mcmc//Jimmmmm/Dylan?
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Given that Jimmmmm never lynched both as soon as I can see
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actually a lot of people voted for mcmc but he was never a wagon
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Given that Jimmmmm never lynched both as soon as I can see
I'm not entirely sure what you mean, but I would have and still would lynch Dylan.
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ok apparently I also need to work on my job, what a shock. Later.
PPE: Have you voted him? I might've missed that. You were voting ash at the time
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Vote: Dylan
Vote: Dylan
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Vote: Dylan
And this last bunch of posts from LaLight seems pretty town to me, a lot of weird assumed guilt looking for reasons and bizarre logical leaps, I'm too busy to check but that's basically what he does as town when reevaluating things isn't it?
Very little time today and tomorrow, should be able to post at some point tomorrow though so not VLA.
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Happy Christmas/Hollidays everyone!
I promise to get back to everything tomorrow evening after all my festivities.
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Why Dylan?
-
Veselé Vánoce (Merry Christmas!)
Vote Count 2.2
mcmcsalot (1): LaLight
silverspawn (1): faust
UmbrageOfSnow (1): DatSwan
Dylan32 (2): Jimmmmm, UmbrageOfSnow
Not Voting (5): Robz888, mcmcsalot, Dylan32, silverspawn, jotheonah
With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
D2 ends on Saturday 29th December at 7pm Czech time (1pm forum time).
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I am null on Dylan, and I don't like the two votes on him. Let's sheep faust, vote: silverspawn
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I am null on Dylan, and I don't like the two votes on him. Let's sheep faust, vote: silverspawn
Why would you do something so stupid?
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I am null on Dylan, and I don't like the two votes on him. Let's sheep faust, vote: silverspawn
Why would you do something so stupid?
Come now, that's not the holiday spirit!
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Merry Christmas everyone, holiday festivities most of the day, then I will be caught up and participating.
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I am null on Dylan, and I don't like the two votes on him. Let's sheep faust, vote: silverspawn
Why would you do something so stupid?
Come now, that's not the holiday spirit!
I don't have any holidays in my country, that's fine
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I am null on Dylan, and I don't like the two votes on him. Let's sheep faust, vote: silverspawn
Why would you do something so stupid?
So what do you think about mcmc?
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Sorry, holidays have put me behind too
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Merry Christmas and other festivities for those who celebrate them! I'll have time tomorrow to catch up before my work conference that starts the 27th.
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Why Dylan?
Because that's where my vote has been in spirit since the end of Day 1 and I looked back and the end of the day doesn't change my wanting to lynch Dylan so I thought I'd put my vote down.
Happy Hogswatch everyone!
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Why Dylan?
Because that's where my vote has been in spirit since the end of Day 1 and I looked back and the end of the day doesn't change my wanting to lynch Dylan so I thought I'd put my vote down.
Happy Hogswatch everyone!
a merry hogwarts from umbridge!
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10 points from silverspawn and detention with me on Wednesday.
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It'll be fine. I'll only have to write sentences.
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I must not make Harry Potter references.
I must not make Harry Potter references.
I must not make Harry Potter references.
I must not make Harry Potter references.
I must not make Harry Potter references.
I must not make Harry Potter references.
I must not make Harry Potter references.
I must not make Harry Potter references.
I must not make Harry Potter references.
I must not make Harry Potter references.
I must not make Harry Potter references.
I must not make Harry Potter references.
I must not make Harry Potter references.
I must not make Harry Potter references.
I must not make Harry Potter references.
I must not make Harry Potter references.
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I must not make Harry Potter references.
I must not make Harry Potter references.
I must not make Harry Potter references.
I must not make Harry Potter references.
I must not make Harry Potter references.
I must not make Harry Potter references.
I must not make Harry Potter references.
I must not make Harry Potter references.
I must not make Harry Potter references.
I must not make Harry Potter references.
I must not make Harry Potter references.
I must not make Harry Potter references.
I must not make Harry Potter references.
I must not make Harry Potter references.
I must not make Harry Potter references.
I must not make Harry Potter references.
Bonus points if you wrote them, not just copypasted.
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I totally wrote them.
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Why Dylan?
Because that's where my vote has been in spirit since the end of Day 1 and I looked back and the end of the day doesn't change my wanting to lynch Dylan so I thought I'd put my vote down.
Happy Hogswatch everyone!
Okay but do you really think this answer provided what I was looking for when asking that question?
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I thought I provided that days ago.
There's really only 4 people I'd be willing to lynch right now, Dylan's my top choice for reasons I've stated before that remain unchanged by the Ash kill or the day-end wagons, and is the most interesting in terms of possibly applied pressure by adding another vote.
Joth is on vacation and won't provide interesting interactions if he gets a wagon anyway, I'm townreading Jimmm despite kind of wanting to lynch him, and I'm going to keep interacting with the other person without naming them right now because I'm looking forward to Swan telling me I'm using that as cover for whomever I eventually vote for and maybe also because I want more time to get a read on them.
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It's kind of weird that faust is basically the only one who said anything about my asking faust if he was a mason.
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It's kind of weird that faust is basically the only one who said anything about my asking faust if he was a mason.
I don't think that's true. Robz and I have both commented on the fact that we thought Jimmmmm was the other Mason and the revelation that it's faust is throwing us a bit.
I don't fault you for asking the question, if that's what you're getting at. I am a little curious how you knew.
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It's kind of weird that faust is basically the only one who said anything about my asking faust if he was a mason.
I don't think that's true. Robz and I have both commented on the fact that we thought Jimmmmm was the other Mason and the revelation that it's faust is throwing us a bit.
I don't fault you for asking the question, if that's what you're getting at. I am a little curious how you knew.
As did I (commented on it, that is).
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It's kind of weird that faust is basically the only one who said anything about my asking faust if he was a mason.
I'm curious about the fact that you asked it but as faust answered quickly and directly I know longer want to know the answer to any questions relating toward your motivations for asking.
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There's really only 4 people I'd be willing to lynch right now, Dylan's my top choice for reasons I've stated before that remain unchanged by the Ash kill or the day-end wagons, and is the most interesting in terms of possibly applied pressure by adding another vote.
It's just somewhat irritating that you would write a paragraph of how reasons you stated previously still apply, compelling us to go search for them, rather than just to restate them. Neither does it help convince me to vote for Dylan because I don't want to trace back your posts right now.
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I don't have much time tonight but I reread Dylan and my reasons for voting for him are really only from very early in the game. I will Unvote for now and hopefully have time to look at joth tomorrow.
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My recollection is that DatSwan had Jimm in second or third on a "I would lynch this person" list, but then when push came to shove absolutely refused to vote for him, even if that possibly meant No Lynch. This screamed "Jimmm is actually my partner". Note also I had made a remark to DatSwan about not expressing reads for fear of giving away the partner, and I had some throwaway line about using it to pull a fake (appearing to scumread the partner on purpose), which then seemed liked that's what DS was doing with Jimmm.
So actually it appears the misunderstanding is more due to DS's actions than Jimmm's, which makes for a possible DS/faust scum team that doesn't even include Jimmm.
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My recollection is that DatSwan had Jimm in second or third on a "I would lynch this person" list, but then when push came to shove absolutely refused to vote for him, even if that possibly meant No Lynch. This screamed "Jimmm is actually my partner". Note also I had made a remark to DatSwan about not expressing reads for fear of giving away the partner, and I had some throwaway line about using it to pull a fake (appearing to scumread the partner on purpose), which then seemed liked that's what DS was doing with Jimmm.
So actually it appears the misunderstanding is more due to DS's actions than Jimmm's, which makes for a possible DS/faust scum team that doesn't even include Jimmm.
But then why doesn’t scum!Swan just vote for Jimmmmm? Does scum want a no lynch that much.
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Yeah I don't know. I guess I Galaxy Brained myself there.
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I don't have much time tonight but I reread Dylan and my reasons for voting for him are really only from very early in the game. I will Unvote for now and hopefully have time to look at joth tomorrow.
So why did you revote him at the start of today then?
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I'll get to this either today or tomorrow...
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Vote Count 2.3
silverspawn (2): faust, LaLight
UmbrageOfSnow (1): DatSwan
Dylan32 (1): UmbrageOfSnow
Not Voting (6): Robz888, mcmcsalot, Dylan32, silverspawn, jotheonah, Jimmmmm
With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
D2 ends on Saturday 29th December at 7pm Czech time (1pm forum time).
The deadline is less than 25 hours from now.
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Oh boy. Uh, I will be driving from Detroit to Washington DC tomorrow and will have no time for this game. I would definitely favor an extension if that were possible--though if it's not, I understand.
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I would also favor an extension.
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I need to read back through holiday posts but i will be around until DL. But also ok with extension.
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I'm also okay with an extension although that means I'll probably be less available around the actual deadline (assuming 24 hour extension).
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Extension ftw.
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Okay, could you please check in with me in your personal QT (not any shared QT) to give me an indication of whether you support/object to an extension up till 23:59 Czech time (6pm Forum Time) on Sunday 30th December? Thanks!
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Alright I’m about to Bird my flight home, so it’s entirely possible I won’t have another chance to log in before deadline. I don’t like silver or Dylan lynches, so I’ll put my vote on vote: Umbrage in case we don’t have an extension and having my vote there helps us avoid NL.
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vote: Umbrage for identical reasons
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bad votes. umbrage is super towny.
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Vote: Robz
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Alright I’m about to Bird my flight home, so it’s entirely possible I won’t have another chance to log in before deadline. I don’t like silver or Dylan lynches, so I’ll put my vote on vote: Umbrage in case we don’t have an extension and having my vote there helps us avoid NL.
Is this a thing or a phone error? Either way it's funny.
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I'm actually a little sick today and it affects my concentration, so I'll break this reread into small parts.
So far, joth is scum, dylan is town.
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The deadline extension has been approved. New deadline is tomorrow night (Sunday 30th December 2018), 23.59 Czech time/17.59 forum time.
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Vote Count 2.4
UmbrageOfSnow (3): DatSwan, jotheonah, Robz888
Dylan32 (1): UmbrageOfSnow
silverspawn (1): LaLight
Robz888 (1): faust
Not Voting (4): mcmcsalot, Dylan32, silverspawn, Jimmmmm
D2 ends at 23:59 Czech time (5.59pm Forum Time) on Sunday 30th December. This is in just over 32 hours' time.
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Request prods on LaLight, Dylan, mcmc, Jimmmmm
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@mcmcsalot, faust, Joth: were you guys (pretty sure you are all guys, apologies if wrong) misunderstanding my reasoning?
'you guys' is totally universal, I believe.
Not feeling my Jimm case anymore.
town on LaLight and DatSwan
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What do you think of silver?
I'd rather not say.
How about now?
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I'm actually a little sick today and it affects my concentration, so I'll break this reread into small parts.
So far, joth is scum, dylan is town.
I agree with you on half of that. I am home now, so I’m going to try and do some real re-reading. I appreciate everyone’s patience with my V/LA. And yes “Bird my flight” was a mobile posting error.
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Votecount at the time:
silverspawn (2): faust, LaLight
UmbrageOfSnow (1): DatSwan
Dylan32 (1): UmbrageOfSnow
Not Voting (6): Robz888, mcmcsalot, Dylan32, silverspawn, jotheonah, Jimmmmm
it’s entirely possible I won’t have another chance to log in before deadline. I don’t like silver or Dylan lynches, so I’ll put my vote on vote: Umbrage in case we don’t have an extension and having my vote there helps us avoid NL.
vote: Umbrage for identical reasons
Previously...
Vote: SS
I would like to point out the large shift in ss’s posting language/format/content/attitude since the wagon in him grew to a size worth caring about. Indicative of self-preservation and possibly defensiveness.
Ash’s point about Silver is solid.
I think I'm still happy with my vote on Dylan. I am realizing Umbrage is quite an under scrutinized player today.
Ash and and galz being dead means me, Dylan, LL are the only off wagon folks.
I feel like we should really scrutinize the Galz wagon, but I also feel like one of LL or Dylan is very likely to be scum by POE.
Vote: Robz
Wouldn't want to actually scumread me or support Swan's weird case but let's just park this vote there since he doesn't like the other two options that he has also been fine with lynching the whole game.
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I was just noticing in my reread that this is at least the second time Robz has immediately followed up a vote of mine with a vote for the same person and no additional analysis.
We have about 42 hours until deadline and it doesn't feel like we're close to a lynch. I'd like to get a prod request on Galzria.
The leading wagon is mcmcsalot and the case on him is completely nonexistent as near as I can tell. Like literally I read through the thread and none of the votes on him come with any hint of an explanation.
The next three wagon candidates are Dylan, DatSwan, and silver. Dylan and DatSwan seem to have stalled out.
So I guess I'm going with vote: silverspawn.
I'm ok with it. He's been sheeping unashamedly, he's on the weird mcmc wagon, he's voting for jokey reasons well after RVS is over. I think silverspawn is a fine day 1 lynch with a better than 50 percent chance of being scum.
Vote: SS
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And another one:
Vote: Jimmmm
Vote Count 1.6
mcmcsalot (1): Lalight
DatSwan (1): Dylan32
Dylan32 (2): UmbrageOfSnow, Jimmmmm
silverspawn (3): ashersky, mcmcsalot, Robz888
Jimmmmm (4): silverspawn, DatSwan, Galzria, jotheonah
Galzria (1): faust
Not Voting (0):
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
D1 ends at 11am Czech time (5am Forum Time) on Thursday 20th December. That's in ~17 hours.
My vote should be on DatSwan.
Well then, Vote: Datswan
vote: josh for asking this question too early. Smells like scared scum.
Vote: silverspawn since I don’t believe this is scummy and Joth is far more easily explained as energetic returning player than scared scum.
If Silver isn't happening... Dylan, Jimmm, DatSwan, UoS are all fine by me. The only lynches I would quite actively oppose right now are Joth and mcmc, I guess.
Now that I re-read it seems like Robz has sort of been going out of his way to buddy and sheep me all game. Which is probably why I've had such a town read on him. I just totally fell for it.
I was only a mediocre player, recordwise, before I left, and now I'm hella rusty, so I feel like town!Robz sheeping me left and right like this doesn't make a lot of sense. But maybe scum!robz figured since he was the one who brought me into the game it would be easy to buddy me and have a permanent town ally. There's evidence of him doing the same thing in subtler ways with Mcmc ("we IC'd each other"), faust ("day 1 pass"), and Galzria.
My memory is that part of Robz's meta is mixing up his scum strategies so that he doesn't have an easily readable meta. And I can see him saying "this game, I'm going to try buddying".
I sort of love this theory, but I also think maybe I'm working too hard to make up a narrative. But what the heck, let's try vote: Robz
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Yeah, sounds good. vote: Robz
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Unofficial Vote Count:
Robz888 (4): faust, UmbrageOfSnow, jotheonah, LaLight
UmbrageOfSnow (2): DatSwan, Robz888
Not Voting (4): mcmcsalot, Dylan32, silverspawn, Jimmmmm
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vote: jimmmm
I would not like to lynch Galzria.
I don’t believe Swan 100% but agree it would be a bizarre claim for scum to make.
There is one other option, which is to have the other Mason claim. Mason isn’t like a hugely powerful power. If we force a partner claim, we either double up on scum if Swan is lying or we get some ICs. Sure scum can NK one, but that’s a shot they’re not spending on a potential cop or doc.
Am I wrong? Say we lynch someone else and scum NKs Swan. Now his partner isn’t even an IC, they’re basically a VT. Double claim seems more valuable then.
Mh, this will be more interesting once we know Jim's alignment. Or once we know joth is scum, if he's scum.
Like, if Jim is scum, then this makes joth look good. If joth is scum, this makes Jim look good.
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Request prods on LaLight, Dylan, mcmc, Jimmmmm
Prods sent to Dylan, mcmc and Jimmmmm.
LL had already posted by the time I read your request.
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This game is tough to get a feel for. I reread all of day 1 and still don't have anything resembling a strong case.
I'm not certainly not opposed to a robz lynch. Probably prefer joth, though.
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I'm not certainly not opposed to a robz lynch. Probably prefer joth, though.
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This is Robz at L-2 right?
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I'm not certainly not opposed to a robz lynch. Probably prefer joth, though.
This game is tough to get a feel for. I reread all of day 1 and still don't have anything resembling a strong case.
I'm not certainly not opposed to a robz lynch. Probably prefer joth, though.
Why don’t you guys like Snow?
Also why not vote for Joth if you prefer it?
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Forgot to put it in the VLA thread, but I did say here I would be VLA until new years.
My gut read on UoS is scum, but he's mostly been tunneling me the whole game, so it might be a little OMGUS.
I'm still skeptical of the Mason claim, however faust's posts from 527 to 547 do actually make the mason narrative for his and Swan's behavior actually seem plausible instead of just coming across like a totally stubborn and antitown willingness to take it through to a no lynch.
I'm not really a fan of the Robz wagon. LL seems like he's done a ton of sheeping this game-continuing with his Robz vote. I can see Joth going either way depending on what I want to see when I read him, and there's the aforementioned skepticism about faust.
If it looks like it's going to come down to the two, I would prefer Vote: UmbrageOfSnow. I'm leaning slightly town on Robz, although if Joth is town, then his point on Robz does actually make sense. I would probably rather lynch Joth or LL over Robz though.
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I'm not certainly not opposed to a robz lynch. Probably prefer joth, though.
This game is tough to get a feel for. I reread all of day 1 and still don't have anything resembling a strong case.
I'm not certainly not opposed to a robz lynch. Probably prefer joth, though.
Why don’t you guys like Snow?
Also why not vote for Joth if you prefer it?
Didn't want to vote until I was caught up fully.
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Or rather, reread everything. It's not like I didn't read it the first time.
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Lots of people suspecting masons, for some reason. I think no-one has pointed out that scum basically can't fakeclaim masons here because they don't know whether there's a UB, and if there was then the mason claim would totally not work. I mean, scum who doesn't understand probability could maybe be reckless enough to do it, but the second claimed mason is faust who has majored in mathematics, so that's no a thing.
Masons are town.
The three people who have voiced their suspicion are Dylan, then joth, then robz (correct me if it's also someone else). I think it makes Dylan town, but I'm not sure about the other two.
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I just had a dream, that faust was Mason AND IC, but we lynched him and he was scum
This clearly shows your paranoia about faust as a player and his ability to be persuasive as scum
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LaLight has very train-of-thought-y post sequences. I think that's towny.
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Damn and that's already it.
So Dylan has a bunch of things that I think are more likely to come from town than scum. One is his treatments of the masons, first throwing suspicion then just now saying faust's narrative has been sorta convincing. Difficult to imagine scum who knows it's true from the start handling it that way. Another is his talk about the Jim wagon feeling towny, (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?action=post;quote=780924;topic=19249.0;last_msg=781342) a third one is this post
Vote: DatSwan for a reason that I'm not gonna share right now.
(I know no-one is even debating dylan right now, but he's the only case where I can put my read into words)
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With joth, my suspicion basically boils down to me going 'let's imagine joth is scum. do his posts feel coherent with that?" and concluding that they do. His posts tend to be sensible and lengthy, and are missing the edge that town people who are wrong about stuff tend to have.
Here's an auto-generated voting history (no guarantee that the L-X annotations are correct, though I tried to fix them).
#54: jotheonah votes Robz888 (L-6)
#61: jotheonah votes Jimmmmm (L-5)
#161: jotheonah votes Dylan32 (L-3)
#174: jotheonah votes DatSwan (L-4)
#224: jotheonah votes Jimmmmm (L-6)
#226: jotheonah votes silverspawn (L-4)
#280: jotheonah votes DatSwan (L-4)
#331: jotheonah votes DatSwan (L-3)
#352: jotheonah votes Jimmmmm (L-5)
#356: jotheonah votes DatSwan (L-3)
#386: jotheonah votes Jimmmmm (L-2)
#489: jotheonah votes Galzria (hammer)
#534: jotheonah votes DatSwan (L-5)
#555: jotheonah unvotes
#620: jotheonah votes UmbrageOfSnow (L-4)
#634: jotheonah votes Robz888 (L-3)
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There might be zero scum in there.
Well, vote: joth let's see if this takes off.
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I'm going back and forth a bit on Dylan. Otherwise I agree with most of what silver says.
Vote: joth
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There might be zero scum in there.
You could say this of literally any list that includes less than 10 players.
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With joth, my suspicion basically boils down to me going 'let's imagine joth is scum. do his posts feel coherent with that?" and concluding that they do. His posts tend to be sensible and lengthy, and are missing the edge that town people who are wrong about stuff tend to have.
Do joth's posts feel coherent with him being town?
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vote: joth
Sorry been super super busy will be more active after New Years lets hope.
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With joth, my suspicion basically boils down to me going 'let's imagine joth is scum. do his posts feel coherent with that?" and concluding that they do. His posts tend to be sensible and lengthy, and are missing the edge that town people who are wrong about stuff tend to have.
Here's an auto-generated voting history (no guarantee that the L-X annotations are correct, though I tried to fix them).
#54: jotheonah votes Robz888 (L-6)
#61: jotheonah votes Jimmmmm (L-5)
#161: jotheonah votes Dylan32 (L-3)
#174: jotheonah votes DatSwan (L-4)
#224: jotheonah votes Jimmmmm (L-6)
#226: jotheonah votes silverspawn (L-4)
#280: jotheonah votes DatSwan (L-4)
#331: jotheonah votes DatSwan (L-3)
#352: jotheonah votes Jimmmmm (L-5)
#356: jotheonah votes DatSwan (L-3)
#386: jotheonah votes Jimmmmm (L-2)
#489: jotheonah votes Galzria (hammer)
#534: jotheonah votes DatSwan (L-5)
#555: jotheonah unvotes
#620: jotheonah votes UmbrageOfSnow (L-4)
#634: jotheonah votes Robz888 (L-3)
This is a nothingburger case that's sort of hard to respond to, but I'll give it a try. I think there are definitely some things I've said and done that aren't consistent with me being scum.
One, why does scum!me hammer Galz? I've already said I was going to bed. I come back in the last few minutes of the day. Does scum!me really risk the heat from essentially quickhammering Galzria when he could achieve a no-lynch, which we had, even at that point, openly established was pro-scum, just by doing nothing? And Galzria in particular was reading me pretty towny and is a good player to have on your side, so it makes even less sense. That was a hard decision to make as town, but I can't see any explanation for me making it as scum.
The edge thing sounds like a gut read. I haven't been holding back. I have been trying to stay cognizant of my tendency to tunnel and trying to keep an open mind, so maybe that has made my posts less "edgy".
So Dylan has a bunch of things that I think are more likely to come from town than scum. One is his treatments of the masons, first throwing suspicion then just now saying faust's narrative has been sorta convincing. Difficult to imagine scum who knows it's true from the start handling it that way.
Both Robz and I basically treated the Mason claim exactly the same way, first throwing suspicion and then coming around to it because of faust's claim. Weird that that's super towny for Dylan and not worth noting for Robz or me. It could just as easily be scum coming into the day thinking they could push a mason lynch through and then backing off when it looked like it wasn't working. I don't think it is that, because I know I'm not scum, but I don't think it's a town tell. It's null.
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With joth, my suspicion basically boils down to me going 'let's imagine joth is scum. do his posts feel coherent with that?" and concluding that they do. His posts tend to be sensible and lengthy, and are missing the edge that town people who are wrong about stuff tend to have.
Do joth's posts feel coherent with him being town?
Yes, unfortunately. But there are people who only feel consistent with town. In fact, that's most people.
There might be zero scum in there.
You could say this of literally any list that includes less than 10 players.
Yeah, but you're taking something literal which I obviously don't intend to be literal. The literal meaning of what I said was something like "based on my current reads, I assign an unusually high probability that every person who joth voted this game is town."
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One, why does scum!me hammer Galz?
I'm pretty sure I'd hammer there as either alignment. Lynching town is worse than lynching no-one for sure, and you don't get any scum points for hammering town since you had to. It's a super safe play (you'll notice that I didn't find you scummy for doing it).
The edge thing sounds like a gut read.
it is.
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Both Robz and I basically treated the Mason claim exactly the same way, first throwing suspicion and then coming around to it because of faust's claim. Weird that that's super towny for Dylan and not worth noting for Robz or me
That's not weird. Dylan did it first, you followed. You can debate this, buy my take was that doing it first is towny, doing it second nullish to scummy.
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Vote Count 2.5
UmbrageOfSnow (3): DatSwan, Robz888, Dylan32
Robz888 (4): faust, UmbrageOfSnow, jotheonah, LaLight
jotheonah (3): silverspawn, Jimmmmm, mcmcsalot
Not Voting (0)
With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. D2 ends at 23:59 Czech time (5.59pm Forum Time) on Sunday 30th December. This is in just under 6.5 hours' time.
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It's still not a good case, but I haven't seen a better one.
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I'll be at an MtG draft most of the day (including until deadline) but I'll try to check in on my phone.
I would urge people to consider the Robz case. I think it's the only one of these three wagons based on much of anything.
I'd switch back to snow to get a lynch through or if someone actually articulates a case that makes sense to me.
I would not switch to joth, even to avoid a no-lynch.
I'll be checking in periodically to answer questions if people have them and, if necessary, to claim at L-1. Hopefully that won't be necessary.
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Oh, there's a wagon against me! It's somewhat deserved, hell yes I've been buddying Joth, I was excited to have him back playing mafia.
When I sheeped his UoS vote, my post saying "Same" was not intending to indicate that I felt the same way he did about the other wagons, but that I too was about to be unavailable and just needed to park a vote somewhere. The Umbrage vote was somewhat random, and if I had thought about it for longer I probably would have gone somewhere else, but I was literally about to pull out of the driveway to begin a 10 hour drive.
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I think I would like to go back to Vote: Jimmmmm. We should have lynched him yesterday.
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There might be zero scum in there.
You could say this of literally any list that includes less than 10 players.
Yeah, but you're taking something literal which I obviously don't intend to be literal. The literal meaning of what I said was something like "based on my current reads, I assign an unusually high probability that every person who joth voted this game is town."
And who do you think is more likely to do that, town or scum?
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I think I would like to go back to Vote: Jimmmmm. We should have lynched him yesterday.
We have 5 hours left. Please do something useful with your vote.
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There might be zero scum in there.
You could say this of literally any list that includes less than 10 players.
Yeah, but you're taking something literal which I obviously don't intend to be literal. The literal meaning of what I said was something like "based on my current reads, I assign an unusually high probability that every person who joth voted this game is town."
And who do you think is more likely to do that, town or scum?
scum, because town would hit scum just by accident if nothing else.
Last game I was scum, robz (?) suggested immediately that we don't bus at all. If this scum team is similarly opposed to bussing...
I mean, it's not a strong argument, but it's not quite nohting.
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There might be zero scum in there.
You could say this of literally any list that includes less than 10 players.
Yeah, but you're taking something literal which I obviously don't intend to be literal. The literal meaning of what I said was something like "based on my current reads, I assign an unusually high probability that every person who joth voted this game is town."
And who do you think is more likely to do that, town or scum?
scum, because town would hit scum just by accident if nothing else.
Last game I was scum, robz (?) suggested immediately that we don't bus at all. If this scum team is similarly opposed to bussing...
I mean, it's not a strong argument, but it's not quite nohting.
It's really quite nothing. It's a weak argument that builds on other unsubstantiated reads to even work.
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I didn’t see vote count or deadline info, vote: Umbrage
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There might be zero scum in there.
You could say this of literally any list that includes less than 10 players.
Yeah, but you're taking something literal which I obviously don't intend to be literal. The literal meaning of what I said was something like "based on my current reads, I assign an unusually high probability that every person who joth voted this game is town."
And who do you think is more likely to do that, town or scum?
scum, because town would hit scum just by accident if nothing else.
Last game I was scum, robz (?) suggested immediately that we don't bus at all. If this scum team is similarly opposed to bussing...
I mean, it's not a strong argument, but it's not quite nohting.
It's really quite nothing. It's a weak argument that builds on other unsubstantiated reads to even work.
weak * weak = very weak > nothing
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So... I'm around. Anybody else?
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I am now here, and will be from now until deadline.
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I know why Jo and LL are voting for me, but why is faust voting for me?
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Is your vote moveable, UoS?
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So all the people who prefer a Joth lynch over a Robz lynch, why?
I was actually thinking I would vote Joth a few days back but on reread I thought he felt townier than I'd remembered feeling.
PPE 2
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So that's a yes, I have been considering Joth off and on, right now I find Robz scummier, but a Joth lynch appealed to me somewhat even if it wasn't potentially him-or-me.
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A Joth lynch doesn't really appeal to me much, though it appeals to me more than a me lynch.
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I know why Jo and LL are voting for me, but why is faust voting for me?
Because you're scum.
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Among the three options available, Robz is the best by a mile. UoS and joth are easily the towniest people around except for me and DatSwan.
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So I ask everyone here to get their act together and do the right thing. Especially you, silver.
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Well it's hard to argue against Mason!faust, particularly when I agree with him that the alternatives to my own lynch aren't the most compelling...
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Joth's case on me was a perfectly fine case. I have sheeped him, yes, although the sheeped vote for Umbrage wss largely because I too was about be VLA and didn't know if I'd be back in time for the end of the game.
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So, I don't know what else to do, to address the case against me.
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Well it's hard to argue against Mason!faust, particularly when I agree with him that the alternatives to my own lynch aren't the most compelling...
Well, you could try to get a wagon started on someone who's actually scummy, like silver.
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Well it's hard to argue against Mason!faust, particularly when I agree with him that the alternatives to my own lynch aren't the most compelling...
Well, you could try to get a wagon started on someone who's actually scummy, like silver.
Dude, you JUST berated me for having my vote somewhere it wasn't doing any good! How would a lone silver vote be useful?
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vote: robz
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So, I don't know what else to do, to address the case against me.
dude you already admitted that it was a good case. what credibility could a defense possibly have?
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So, I don't know what else to do, to address the case against me.
dude you already admitted that it was a good case. what credibility could a defense possibly have?
If I don't have any credibility in your view, me saying it's a good case shoudn't matter!
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I mean, it's not a *good* case: it's wrong. But I appreciate what it attempts to argue. I guess where it falls apart, what I should have said, is that me buddying Joth and me sheeping him are not particularly scummy things for me to do.
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Oh, I'm at L-1. This probably seals my fate but I am a Vanilla Townie.
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So, I don't know what else to do, to address the case against me.
dude you already admitted that it was a good case. what credibility could a defense possibly have?
If I don't have any credibility in your view, me saying it's a good case shoudn't matter!
I didn't say you don't have any credibility, I said a defense won't have credibility because you already admitted that the case is at least decent.
I'm fairly confused by that. Cases on me are universally bad if I'm town.
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vote: joth
why are so few people here?
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I mean, it's not a *good* case: it's wrong. But I appreciate what it attempts to argue. I guess where it falls apart, what I should have said, is that me buddying Joth and me sheeping him are not particularly scummy things for me to do.
Maybe not, if you had done anything else. But all you’ve done is buddy and sheep me and mcmc and faust.
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I mean, it's not a *good* case: it's wrong. But I appreciate what it attempts to argue. I guess where it falls apart, what I should have said, is that me buddying Joth and me sheeping him are not particularly scummy things for me to do.
Maybe not, if you had done anything else. But all you’ve done is buddy and sheep me and mcmc and faust.
I think at one point at least mcmc was sheeping me, not the other way around. Faust is an admitted Mason so sheeping him isn't some crime. You "sheeped" my suspicion of the Mason trio, does that make you bahhhhhhhhhhhhh(d)?
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Vote: Jotheonah, purely for my own survival.
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Sorry, a short distraction turned into a huge distraction, as I said, today wasn't actually better for me but I voted for the extension because Christmas is anti-town. Anyway, I'm here and not really inclined to move my vote.
vote: joth
why are so few people here?
Does Robz always fakeclaim as scum?
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Sorry, a short distraction turned into a huge distraction, as I said, today wasn't actually better for me but I voted for the extension because Christmas is anti-town. Anyway, I'm here and not really inclined to move my vote.
vote: joth
why are so few people here?
Does Robz always fakeclaim as scum?
*whispers: Yes*
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I want to know if that's why SS got off the wagon
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By the way, I saw that Joth was working on a post for a while, and then ever posted it, just now. Scummy!
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I'm not sure why I went off wagon.
In my first game, town!robz refused to claim as a PR
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My vote is movable to uos, honestly don’t have a strong town read on either him or joth but don’t have a great read on either period.
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Is 2 votes enough to make UoS happen? I could also move.
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I mean, it's not a *good* case: it's wrong. But I appreciate what it attempts to argue. I guess where it falls apart, what I should have said, is that me buddying Joth and me sheeping him are not particularly scummy things for me to do.
Maybe not, if you had done anything else. But all you’ve done is buddy and sheep me and mcmc and faust.
I think at one point at least mcmc was sheeping me, not the other way around. Faust is an admitted Mason so sheeping him isn't some crime. You "sheeped" my suspicion of the Mason trio, does that make you bahhhhhhhhhhhhh(d)?
How about having an original thought though?
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What's with the deadlines being at what I presume is the start of the 59th minute of the hour?
24 minutes left, I am getting kicked out of this coffee shop exactly at deadline, so that works out nicely.
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I am around and could move
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I will move to the most viable non-me wagon, essentially.
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Vote: Umbrage
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vote: robz
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Was that hammer? Vote count?
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Vote Count 2.UoS
UmbrageOfSnow (3): DatSwan, Robz888, Dylan32
Robz888 (5): faust, UmbrageOfSnow, jotheonah, LaLight, silverspawn
jotheonah (2): Jimmmmm, mcmcsalot
Not Voting (0)
With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
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Not hammer, silver has just been flipping back and forth.
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Honestly, I would move to anyone. I think I prefer Joth a bit to Robz, but it's not a real strong preference.
Also, silver was unannounced L-1
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Mcmc, silver, and Joth would need to vote UoS to make that happen.
Me, mcmc, silver and either UoS or Dylan need to go Joth for that to happen.
For me to happen, uh, everybody do nothing.
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Honestly, I would move to anyone. I think I prefer Joth a bit to Robz, but it's not a real strong preference.
Also, silver was unannounced L-1
Robz has already claimed and it's 15 minutes to deadline
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Right, and I assume Dylan is going to vote for me before deadline--I would do that if I were Dylan--so this is not looking good.
Vote: Joth
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yeah intent to hammer, unless people are willing to go to Joth or UoS.
ppe 1
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Mcmc showing up to express willingness to help and then quietly disappearing was not great.
None of the Masons are here, which is... interesting.
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yeah intent to hammer, unless people are willing to go to Joth or UoS.
ppe 1
Well that, but I meant that it's not really scummy to give an unannounced L-1 in that situation, Robz had already been at L-1, claimed, then SS got off and back on.
Point of announcing L-1 is to avoid derphammers
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Joth is just hanging around hoping I die.
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yeah intent to hammer, unless people are willing to go to Joth or UoS.
ppe 1
Well that, but I meant that it's not really scummy to give an unannounced L-1 in that situation, Robz had already been at L-1, claimed, then SS got off and back on.
Point of announcing L-1 is to avoid derphammers
Yeah, I meant that in terms of making clear that it was actually L-1, cuz ss's switching had already confused at least one person on whether or not there had been a hammer.
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We should all vote for Silverspawn!
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Vote: Silverspawn
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Vote: Robz
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Actually, Vote: DatSwan and Vote: Faust as an indictment of their supposed "Mason" play.
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Okay, I was town. Thanks a lot.
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Speccy me when you get the chance, Space.
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I am feeling a bit scummier towards silver after that
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If we ended up in a setup with multiple cops, I feel like faust is kind of a must target tonight to help clear up once and for all the mason conundrum.
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I keep forgetting about this. but then when I come back nothing's happened.
well, robz voted for me. now i'm not swtiching out of principle.
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Oh he's hammered already. ok.
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I was on a delayed flight to AUS. Comment about faust is weird. If it’s true they kill faust over me so probably cop me.
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Actually, Vote: DatSwan and Vote: Faust as an indictment of their supposed "Mason" play.
You're either scum fooling around or you didn't pay attention.
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Space likes to make us wait for the flips, eh?
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Vote Count 2.final
UmbrageOfSnow (1): DatSwan
Robz888 (6): faust, UmbrageOfSnow, jotheonah, LaLight, silverspawn, Dylan32
jotheonah (2): Jimmmmm, mcmcsalot
faust (1): Robz888
With 10 alive, it tooks 6 to lynch.
Robz was a prostý vesničan of team Vesničané.
Czech fact: the word for the colour green is zelený, or zelená (or a bunch of other possible endings depending on grammatical gender, case and number).
N2 starts now and ends at 23.59 Czech time on Monday 1st January 2019. Action deadline is 1 hour before that.
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Correction, N2 ends at 23.59 Czech time on Tuesday 1st January 2019.
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Šťastný nový rok! (Happy New Year!)
A new year dawns on our little Vesnice!
silverspawn was killed in the night. He was a Blokovač Rolí, of team Vesničané, a Role-Blocker.
Vote Count 3.0
Not voting (8): faust, LaLight, mcmcsalot, DatSwan, Jimmmmm, UmbrageOfSnow, jotheonah, Dylan32
With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.
D3 ends on Tuesday 8th January at 23.59 Czech time (17.59 forum time).
Thread Unlocked.
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We are not doing well. We need to view the two wagons. We also need to do a post count for clarification and drunk ama. Sorry for being busy, extra sorry to robz who I was 90% sure wastown. Let’s win this game peopele
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Ok so MYLO right?
I think skum chose SS to try and set up Faust and myslef
I think claim time might be in order here given the circumstance. It is not sure fire we find anyone from it but at this point we need all the info we can get.
Alternative would be maybe go no lynch before claim to give a potential remaining PR another shot if they exist and have one. Idk which is better though. Thoughts?
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No lynching or massclaiming both seem reasonable.
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Looked for SS crumbs... not that it matters a ton bc roleblocker not coo... but really nothing pops out.
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No lynch is only good here if there is serious doubt that DatSwan and me are town. Is there?
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By the way, I suspected silver to be a PR from D1. This is what that post was about:
What do you think of silver?
I'd rather not say.
So if I really were scum, silver would have died earlier.
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I don't see an upside in a massclaim. Scum has all the information to fakeclaim effectively, and if we really do have another PR, we do not want to out them. It is not in our interest that anyone but me and DatSwan comments on massclaiming at all.
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Looked for SS crumbs... not that it matters a ton bc roleblocker not coo... but really nothing pops out.
I think so. If you are Town, then scum has to choose to either leave you alive or remove all doubt.
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Whoops, quoted the wrong post. Meant to quote this one:
No lynch is only good here if there is serious doubt that DatSwan and me are town. Is there?
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Whoops, quoted the wrong post. Meant to quote this one:
No lynch is only good here if there is serious doubt that DatSwan and me are town. Is there?
So to clarify, you think it is plausible that DatSwan and me are scum?
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Whoops, quoted the wrong post. Meant to quote this one:
No lynch is only good here if there is serious doubt that DatSwan and me are town. Is there?
So to clarify, you think it is plausible that DatSwan and me are scum?
I think the likelihood is low, but greater than zero.
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I think it's really stupid for scum to try to set up faust and Swan and it works for us in a really good way, PoE is strong with this one. Also I thought silver was scum pretty probably, so I like the kill. I have a couple more days of low activity, hope I'll be more active after, sorry
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Whoops, quoted the wrong post. Meant to quote this one:
No lynch is only good here if there is serious doubt that DatSwan and me are town. Is there?
So to clarify, you think it is plausible that DatSwan and me are scum?
I think the likelihood is low, but greater than zero.
I tend to agree with Jimmmm here. I think it’s been a weird game and so it makes sense to look at weird plays as the explanation.
But also, I don’t understand what your original post is saying. What does your Mason claim have to do with the value of no-lynching?
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Whoops, quoted the wrong post. Meant to quote this one:
No lynch is only good here if there is serious doubt that DatSwan and me are town. Is there?
So to clarify, you think it is plausible that DatSwan and me are scum?
I think the likelihood is low, but greater than zero.
I tend to agree with Jimmmm here. I think it’s been a weird game and so it makes sense to look at weird plays as the explanation.
But also, I don’t understand what your original post is saying. What does your Mason claim have to do with the value of no-lynching?
Well if DatSwan and me are ICs, scum is just going to lynch one of us and that's no benefit to town.
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Whoops, quoted the wrong post. Meant to quote this one:
No lynch is only good here if there is serious doubt that DatSwan and me are town. Is there?
So to clarify, you think it is plausible that DatSwan and me are scum?
I think the likelihood is low, but greater than zero.
I tend to agree with Jimmmm here. I think it’s been a weird game and so it makes sense to look at weird plays as the explanation.
But also, I don’t understand what your original post is saying. What does your Mason claim have to do with the value of no-lynching?
Well if DatSwan and me are ICs, scum is just going to lynch kill one of us and that's no benefit to town.
EBWOP
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Whoops, quoted the wrong post. Meant to quote this one:
No lynch is only good here if there is serious doubt that DatSwan and me are town. Is there?
So to clarify, you think it is plausible that DatSwan and me are scum?
I think the likelihood is low, but greater than zero.
I tend to agree with Jimmmm here. I think it’s been a weird game and so it makes sense to look at weird plays as the explanation.
But also, I don’t understand what your original post is saying. What does your Mason claim have to do with the value of no-lynching?
Well if DatSwan and me are ICs, scum is just going to lynch one of us and that's no benefit to town.
You're clearly not ICs. And I don't see why scum would suddenly start killing you now. Either you are scum or scum is pretty all in on trying to convince us you're scum. Either way, I don't see them changing their pattern just because of a no-lynch.
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Ok, it may not be time for a massclaim, but it's time for me to claim.
I'm the UB. Inherited Galz's cop shot, checked Jimmmmm last night: guilty.
Vote: Jimmmmm
This is why I was so skeptical of the mason claim until I realized that faust actually was able to explain the EoD1 consistently with the claim.
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Ok, it may not be time for a massclaim, but it's time for me to claim.
I'm the UB. Inherited Galz's cop shot, checked Jimmmmm last night: guilty.
Vote: Jimmmmm
This is why I was so skeptical of the mason claim until I realized that faust actually was able to explain the EoD1 consistently with the claim.
This is a lie.
Vote: Dylan
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Ok, it may not be time for a massclaim, but it's time for me to claim.
I'm the UB. Inherited Galz's cop shot, checked Jimmmmm last night: guilty.
Vote: Jimmmmm
This is why I was so skeptical of the mason claim until I realized that faust actually was able to explain the EoD1 consistently with the claim.
Sooo... what about this:
If we ended up in a setup with multiple cops, I feel like faust is kind of a must target tonight to help clear up once and for all the mason conundrum.
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Ok, it may not be time for a massclaim, but it's time for me to claim.
I'm the UB. Inherited Galz's cop shot, checked Jimmmmm last night: guilty.
Vote: Jimmmmm
This is why I was so skeptical of the mason claim until I realized that faust actually was able to explain the EoD1 consistently with the claim.
Sooo... what about this:
If we ended up in a setup with multiple cops, I feel like faust is kind of a must target tonight to help clear up once and for all the mason conundrum.
I was hoping to target DatSwan and if there was a 2nd cop they would hit you instead. But after I checked to see what was said in twilight after I left, DatSwan's post saying no target him instead worried me that if that 2nd cop existed we would both end up targeting Swan and it would be a waste, but if I targeted you and they listened the same thing would happen, so I completely sidestepped the WIFOM and checked Jim, who I had been suspicious of ever since his wagon froze D1.
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I realize I should have said in my post a cop should target DatSwan, knowing that would be the more normal and predictable play, which targeting faust myself, but didn't catch that until Swan read that post the way he did...
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So maybe not ideal, but on the brightside, it worked out anyway
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I am a Mason. I am not claiming my partner. We should lynch Galz.
If there’s a UB in play that did NOT auto-convert to Mason, should they claim and we lynch Swan?
Good question. I think they answer is yes, they should claim.
Vote: Jimmmmm
Almost forgot to put it in thread, but I will be VLA from Christmas Eve through New Years Day, the holidays themselves V, in between very LA for working at a conference, but I might be able to at least read and stay kind of caught up.
Relevant sequence of posts from the Mason claim onwards. No indication that Dylan might be UB.
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I wasn't convinced that claiming there was the best play, as other people eventually agreed later in the thread, but I assumed most people wouldn't go ahead and try to lynch Swan without the counterclaim, so I went to my 2nd choice wagon without saying anything.
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I feel like at this point the best move is to Vote: No Lynch
Honestly I would have bet on there not being a UB. This would have truly made ICs out of Swan and me. It is scummy for joth and Jimmmmm to not have caught that.
But with things as they are, I feel that the better play is to either confirm Masons, or remove someone from the lynch pool.
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Ok, it may not be time for a massclaim, but it's time for me to claim.
I'm the UB. Inherited Galz's cop shot, checked Jimmmmm last night: guilty.
Vote: Jimmmmm
This is why I was so skeptical of the mason claim until I realized that faust actually was able to explain the EoD1 consistently with the claim.
This is a lie.
Vote: Dylan
Coming from the person who just got copped at scum, this is not particularly compelling.
Dylan, why didn't you use your 1-shot right away -- why wait until last night?
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Honestly I would have bet on there not being a UB. This would have truly made ICs out of Swan and me. It is scummy for joth and Jimmmmm to not have caught that.
Again, not understanding you. Not to have caught what?
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We know the setup is CBXXXX. (The Xs can be more or less anything, and the C could instead be an E.)
Assuming that the Masons are Town, then (at least) one of the Xs is an M.
We know that not all 4 Xs are Ms, otherwise we would have an IC.
So then the setup is CBMYXX, when Y != M.
In order for the UB to not have been converted to a Mason, both Xs would have to have rolled as Ms, which would have a probability of 10% * 10% = 1%.
So if the Masons are Town, there is a 99% chance that one of them was the UB. Scum obviously know this and so consider the UB claim to be relatively unlikely to be counterclaimed.
PPE 5
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Honestly I would have bet on there not being a UB. This would have truly made ICs out of Swan and me. It is scummy for joth and Jimmmmm to not have caught that.
Again, not understanding you. Not to have caught what?
That having no UB means Swan and me are ICs.
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joth still seems the most likely partner. I'm picking LaLight as the third. No lynch is still probably best though.
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Coming from the person who just got copped at scum, this is not particularly compelling.
I got copped as scum. You know this how?
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Dylan, why didn't you use your 1-shot right away -- why wait until last night?
Right, he could have used it N1.... I missed that. The whole thing is kind of dodgy.
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Dylan, why didn't you use your 1-shot right away -- why wait until last night?
I think you know the answer - you decided to wait until mylo to try to finish the game off with this claim.
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I had enough people wanting to lynch me I wasn't afraid of getting NKd and wanted to hold it until I had a smaller pool of people to target.
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I had enough people wanting to lynch me I wasn't afraid of getting NKd and wanted to hold it until I had a smaller pool of people to target.
And scum had a smaller pool of people to roleblock?
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Unless someone counterclaims Dylan, the Masons are confirmed to me.
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I had enough people wanting to lynch me I wasn't afraid of getting NKd and wanted to hold it until I had a smaller pool of people to target.
Did you consider being Vigged?
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I had enough people wanting to lynch me I wasn't afraid of getting NKd and wanted to hold it until I had a smaller pool of people to target.
And scum had a smaller pool of people to roleblock?
Honestly hadn't even considered that...
I had enough people wanting to lynch me I wasn't afraid of getting NKd and wanted to hold it until I had a smaller pool of people to target.
Did you consider being Vigged?
... or that...
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If we ended up in a setup with multiple cops, I feel like faust is kind of a must target tonight to help clear up once and for all the mason conundrum.
This is a scummy post anyway. What good can come from trying to direct Night Actions in the game thread? As a rule, you trust your teammates to make their own decisions in this regard. Much more likely trying to avoid scum being Copped.
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If we ended up in a setup with multiple cops, I feel like faust is kind of a must target tonight to help clear up once and for all the mason conundrum.
This is a scummy post anyway. What good can come from trying to direct Night Actions in the game thread? As a rule, you trust your teammates to make their own decisions in this regard. Much more likely trying to avoid scum being Copped.
Generally agree, but considering my reasons for doubting them, I think trying to coordinate to potentially IC them in spite of scums attempts to WIFOM them all game is a case where I was willing to make an exception, and I'd do it again in a later game.
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If we ended up in a setup with multiple cops, I feel like faust is kind of a must target tonight to help clear up once and for all the mason conundrum.
This is a scummy post anyway. What good can come from trying to direct Night Actions in the game thread? As a rule, you trust your teammates to make their own decisions in this regard. Much more likely trying to avoid scum being Copped.
Generally agree, but considering my reasons for doubting them, I think trying to coordinate to potentially IC them in spite of scums attempts to WIFOM them all game is a case where I was willing to make an exception, and I'd do it again in a later game.
Seems like a terrible waste of a 1-Shot Cop.
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unvote
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And besides, why wouldn't I just go ahead and claim a guilty result on Swan as if I went through with my supposed plan? Surely scum!me would have realized how much weaker this would all look the way it actually's gone down, but the simple fact is, I didn't think about how it looked. I was concerned about what was best, and I thought there was a decent chance that if the masons weren't, there was a decent chance that there was at least another 1-shot cop or something out there (since there were several different roles that could get a 1shot +) that would get a result on them while I looked somewhere else.
ppe 2
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And besides, why wouldn't I just go ahead and claim a guilty result on Swan as if I went through with my supposed plan? Surely scum!me would have realized how much weaker this would all look the way it actually's gone down, but the simple fact is, I didn't think about how it looked. I was concerned about what was best, and I thought there was a decent chance that if the masons weren't, there was a decent chance that there was at least another 1-shot cop or something out there (since there were several different roles that could get a 1shot +) that would get a result on them while I looked somewhere else.
ppe 2
Well, if you are town, know that you definitely massively misplayed.
Did you leave any breadcrumbs that show that you are a UB?
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Surely scum!me would have realized how much weaker this would all look the way it actually's gone down
The fact that you're making this argument invalidates this argument.
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Question to Dylan and Jimmmmm: You know one scum. Can you try to figure out who you think their partners are? Rereads would be ideal.
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ashes kill isn't really that strange. skum knows mason claim is true and found out 1 shot cop was in the game. They also are gonna know which PRs they have... which could pretty much be:
TTTT = 1-Shot Strongman; Roleblocker
TTT = 1-Shot Strongman; Roleblocker
TT = Strongman; Roleblocker
T = Strongman; Roleblocker
0 Ts = Strongman; Roleblocker; 1-Shot Bulletproof****
As it states in the opening thread - neither me nor my partner know if we were UB converted or not. However, it is seemingly unimportant to this point as the only difference between 4-Ts (single M role) and 4 T's (double M role), would be the existence of the UB.
Whatever... what that boils down to for me is that they probably did not make the choice based off of PR stuff. So why kill ashes? - because ashes was off the wagons.
I think that they killed ashes primarily to prevent information to be gathered from VCA on the day. Not that that is worth too much really, but it is my thought on the matter.
A double M roll would be an IC instead of masons. Masons + UB would be a triple M roll, which would have a much bigger impact on the rolls, since a triple M roll would leave us at MMMC**, rather than MC****. So a UB being in the game seems to make the mason claim a bit weaker.
Stated as a fact rather than as hypothetical
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Question to Dylan and Jimmmmm: You know one scum. Can you try to figure out who you think their partners are? Rereads would be ideal.
Prereread joth seems obvious. LaLight a likely third. I should get some rereads done tomorrow.
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That's as close to a breadcrumb as I was willing to go, because even though I didn't consider being vigged for looking scummy, I didn't want to draw the NK by letting on that I had that cop shot too much.
ppe1
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ashes kill isn't really that strange. skum knows mason claim is true and found out 1 shot cop was in the game. They also are gonna know which PRs they have... which could pretty much be:
TTTT = 1-Shot Strongman; Roleblocker
TTT = 1-Shot Strongman; Roleblocker
TT = Strongman; Roleblocker
T = Strongman; Roleblocker
0 Ts = Strongman; Roleblocker; 1-Shot Bulletproof****
As it states in the opening thread - neither me nor my partner know if we were UB converted or not. However, it is seemingly unimportant to this point as the only difference between 4-Ts (single M role) and 4 T's (double M role), would be the existence of the UB.
Whatever... what that boils down to for me is that they probably did not make the choice based off of PR stuff. So why kill ashes? - because ashes was off the wagons.
I think that they killed ashes primarily to prevent information to be gathered from VCA on the day. Not that that is worth too much really, but it is my thought on the matter.
A double M roll would be an IC instead of masons. Masons + UB would be a triple M roll, which would have a much bigger impact on the rolls, since a triple M roll would leave us at MMMC**, rather than MC****. So a UB being in the game seems to make the mason claim a bit weaker.
Stated as a fact rather than as hypothetical
Nice find.
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...quote...
Nice find.
I did use that phrasing on purpose, didn't have to go digging as you seem to be suggesting.
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Honestly I would have bet on there not being a UB. This would have truly made ICs out of Swan and me. It is scummy for joth and Jimmmmm to not have caught that.
Again, not understanding you. Not to have caught what?
That having no UB means Swan and me are ICs.
Oh, because the only scenario with no UB is one in which one converted. But we don't know if there is a UB or not, so you aren't. We talked about asking a UB to claim on day 1 and ultimately decided not to. Now we do have a UB claim.
So there's two possibilities here:
1) DatSwan, faust, and Jimmmmm are the scum team. They presumably talked N0 about what they would do if forced to claim and decided on a mason gambit. DatSwan calimed Mason without claiming his partner, leaving himself open to claim his scum partner later but not tying him to someone if he didn't had to. But somehow the wagon moved from DatSwan to Jimmmm, leading to Swan's scummy refusal to move to the Jimmmmm wagon night 1.
On Day 2, Umbrage asks faust if he's a mason. scum!faust gets forced into deciding whether to go whole hog with the mason claim and decides to do it. They begin an aggressive campaign to IC themselves, hoping town won't notice that they keep not being nightkilled.
This is seeming less and less crazy and more and more likely given the evidence that we have. I'm not particularly disturbed by the fact that Dylan didn't come out with his UB claim earlier, since doing so would have meant giving up his potentially valuable cop shot.
2) DatSwan and faust are masons. Dylan is scum. In this case, we need to explain why scum didn't kill the masons and why they are risking a proactive cop claim when they are doing pretty well without one. As to number one, the only thing that makes any sense is that they're doing this all to frame Swan and faust. But that's almost as insane a scum play as claiming masons in the first place. Isn't it? Doesn't scum just kill the claimed mason right away night 1, instead of killing ashersky? Dylan's partners here must be Umbrage, mcmc, or LaLight (or me, if you're not me and you didn't see my role PM like I did)
3) DatSwan and faust are scum, Dylan is their partner. This is a possibility we need to consider. The scum have been doing very well with their mason claim, and now need only one more mislynch to win the game. They also know that UB is a relatively safe fakeclaim. So they decide to try a hail mary. If it works, they win. If Dylan gets lynched, hey faust and Swan get to keep on being "IC"s into the end game.
I guess at the end of the day what I'm saying is
A) Scums claiming mason day 1 is nutty, but so is scum leaving masons alive over and over. Since we're dealing with crazy scum either way, someone will have to convince me that one crazy scenario is more likely than the other. Also given exactly how things went down, I can see Swan and faust kind of falling backwards into the plan, which makes it a little less crazy gutsy.
B) No lynching and getting one more NK will give us more information. But not that much more. If faust or Swan gets NKd (and flip Mason) then we are back here with an IC, but we still don't know whether Dylan or Jimmm is scum and we don't know where the other two scum are amongst me, Umbrage, lalight, and mcmc. There's almost zero chance Dylan or Jimmmmm gets NKd. If anyone else gets NK'd we have shrunken the pool of possible scum, but we will still have to decide whether or not we believe the masons are masons. I'm fine with doing it, but I think mostly it delays the inevitable.
Final note, my gut here is to believe Dylan and not Jimmmm, although the tiny math chance gives me pause. Gut read, Jimmmmm is acting right now exactly like scum!Jimmmm from scenario 1 would act. He's acting like he had prepared for this possibility in advance. Look how quick he was with the math post.
Final final note: It's going to be really hard to lynch scum today. With 8 alive, and 3 scum, we literally need every town player on a wagon to lynch successfully. So if we're in scenario 1, for instance, that means mcmc, Umbrage, and Lalight need to show up soon and be active and we all need to agree to lynch Jimmmmm or a Mason claimant.
PPE: 14. Just going to post, will respond to new stuff after.
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Just noticed I said 2 possibilities than listed three. Sorry, thought of another one midway through.
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I would very much like to hear from everybody else.
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...quote...
Nice find.
I did use that phrasing on purpose, didn't have to go digging as you seem to be suggesting.
Yeah that's probably true.
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There is a 4th possibility, masons and I are all telling the truth and we are the 1%
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There is a 4th possibility, masons and I are all telling the truth and we are the 1%
Re: Joth's wall of text
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3) DatSwan and faust are scum, Dylan is their partner. This is a possibility we need to consider. The scum have been doing very well with their mason claim, and now need only one more mislynch to win the game. They also know that UB is a relatively safe fakeclaim. So they decide to try a hail mary. If it works, they win. If Dylan gets lynched, hey faust and Swan get to keep on being "IC"s into the end game.
This is impossible, as there would have to be an actual UB out there somewhere. Well I guess not impossible, not everyone has had the chance to counterclaim, but you know...
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3) DatSwan and faust are scum, Dylan is their partner. This is a possibility we need to consider. The scum have been doing very well with their mason claim, and now need only one more mislynch to win the game. They also know that UB is a relatively safe fakeclaim. So they decide to try a hail mary. If it works, they win. If Dylan gets lynched, hey faust and Swan get to keep on being "IC"s into the end game.
This is impossible, as there would have to be an actual UB out there somewhere. Well I guess not impossible, not everyone has had the chance to counterclaim, but you know...
Right! Sorry, setup math is not my forte.
I think I also left out the possibility that Jimm is scum and his partners are not faust and Swan. Which is of course possible.
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I mean don't get me wrong, I would love a counterclaim just to add that extra dose of craziness.
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I mean don't get me wrong, I would love a counterclaim just to add that extra dose of craziness.
Congratulations on being alive, by the way.
I mean, not so much if you’re scum, but if you’re town congrats. Maybe your streak is coming to an end.
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I mean don't get me wrong, I would love a counterclaim just to add that extra dose of craziness.
Congratulations on being alive, by the way.
I mean, not so much if you’re scum, but if you’re town congrats. Maybe your streak is coming to an end.
I mean if it's just due to my bad reads then I'm not sure that is congratulations-worthy.
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2) DatSwan and faust are masons. Dylan is scum. In this case, we need to explain why scum didn't kill the masons and why they are risking a proactive cop claim when they are doing pretty well without one.
Again, we don't need to explain scum's behaviour at all. The fact that you're arguing this is the explanation. Do someone kind of crazy late enough in the game that you can likely get away with it => argue that it's so crazy that scum would never do it => win the game.
As to number one, the only thing that makes any sense is that they're doing this all to frame Swan and faust.
No, you're doing it to frame me. Obviously. One more mislynch is probably all you need, so this is how you're attempting to get it.
But that's almost as insane a scum play as claiming masons in the first place. Isn't it? Doesn't scum just kill the claimed mason right away night 1, instead of killing ashersky?
Not if you want to make this argument.
3) DatSwan and faust are scum, Dylan is their partner. This is a possibility we need to consider. The scum have been doing very well with their mason claim, and now need only one more mislynch to win the game. They also know that UB is a relatively safe fakeclaim. So they decide to try a hail mary. If it works, they win. If Dylan gets lynched, hey faust and Swan get to keep on being "IC"s into the end game.
This is false and a scumslip. If Swan, faust and Dylan are the scum team, then the real UB is still out there, and UB would be an entirely unsafe fakeclaim. But you know that UB is a relatively safe fakeclaim and so messed up your story here.
Final note, my gut here is to believe Dylan and not Jimmmm, although the tiny math chance gives me pause. Gut read, Jimmmmm is acting right now exactly like scum!Jimmmm from scenario 1 would act. He's acting like he had prepared for this possibility in advance. Look how quick he was with the math post.
I posted #754 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19249.msg781607#msg781607) when I saw Dylan's claim and #764 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19249.msg781618#msg781618) 32 minutes later. Plenty of time to grab some paper, come up with a figure of 97.3%, realise that 4 Ms were impossible, change it to 99%, and do my best to make the post clear and concise.
So if we're in scenario 1, for instance, that means mcmc, Umbrage, and Lalight need to show up soon and be active and we all need to agree to lynch Jimmmmm or a Mason claimant.
You'd like that wouldn't you?
PPE 6
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Coming from the person who just got copped at scum, this is not particularly compelling.
I got copped as scum. You know this how?
I don’t. What I was trying to say was, either way you would be saying Dylan was lying. So once someone claims cop and offers a guilty result, the accused is going to say “This is a lie” no matter what. Hence, not compelling.
PPE: also not compelling, jumping on an honest math mistake and calling it a scumslip. ::)
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Coming from the person who just got copped at scum, this is not particularly compelling.
I got copped as scum. You know this how?
I don’t. What I was trying to say was, either way you would be saying Dylan was lying. So once someone claims cop and offers a guilty result, the accused is going to say “This is a lie” no matter what. Hence, not compelling.
PPE: also not compelling, jumping on an honest math mistake and calling it a scumslip. ::)
What was the math mistake?
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I am here not counter claiming and think we should no lynch
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Coming from the person who just got copped at scum, this is not particularly compelling.
I got copped as scum. You know this how?
I don’t. What I was trying to say was, either way you would be saying Dylan was lying. So once someone claims cop and offers a guilty result, the accused is going to say “This is a lie” no matter what. Hence, not compelling.
PPE: also not compelling, jumping on an honest math mistake and calling it a scumslip. ::)
What was the math mistake?
forgetting that faust and swan being scum means there must be a UB.
well, unless there is a second set of real masons, but that would be totally insane and is probably not worth considering
I am here not counter claiming and think we should no lynch
Cool cool. Do you have any other comments on what's going on?
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Coming from the person who just got copped at scum, this is not particularly compelling.
I got copped as scum. You know this how?
I don’t. What I was trying to say was, either way you would be saying Dylan was lying. So once someone claims cop and offers a guilty result, the accused is going to say “This is a lie” no matter what. Hence, not compelling.
PPE: also not compelling, jumping on an honest math mistake and calling it a scumslip. ::)
What was the math mistake?
forgetting that faust and swan being scum means there must be a UB.
What does that have to do with math? You didn't forget anything. You assumed that UB was a safe fakeclaim. What possible reason could you have for assuming that other than that "UB is a safe fakeclaim" was in your mind already?
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Anyway, I'm going to bed. No lynch is probably the right move, although there's no guarantee it will actually get us anywhere.
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Coming from the person who just got copped at scum, this is not particularly compelling.
I got copped as scum. You know this how?
I don’t. What I was trying to say was, either way you would be saying Dylan was lying. So once someone claims cop and offers a guilty result, the accused is going to say “This is a lie” no matter what. Hence, not compelling.
PPE: also not compelling, jumping on an honest math mistake and calling it a scumslip. ::)
What was the math mistake?
forgetting that faust and swan being scum means there must be a UB.
What does that have to do with math? You didn't forget anything. You assumed that UB was a safe fakeclaim. What possible reason could you have for assuming that other than that "UB is a safe fakeclaim" was in your mind already?
Well for one thing, if it was in my mind already, it might have been because I had just read it in your post:
We know the setup is CBXXXX. (The Xs can be more or less anything, and the C could instead be an E.)
Assuming that the Masons are Town, then (at least) one of the Xs is an M.
We know that not all 4 Xs are Ms, otherwise we would have an IC.
So then the setup is CBMYXX, when Y != M.
In order for the UB to not have been converted to a Mason, both Xs would have to have rolled as Ms, which would have a probability of 10% * 10% = 1%.
So if the Masons are Town, there is a 99% chance that one of them was the UB. Scum obviously know this and so consider the UB claim to be relatively unlikely to be counterclaimed.
PPE 5
But really, my brain is just not good at this stuff. I can't hold it in my head. I don't really know what else to say. I got excited and was trying to elucidate the possibilities and I made a mistake. Some people are good at setup analysis. I'm not one of them.
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Still reading but No Lynch is by far the best play here, if faust is sure he’ll be the NK he should make a big contribution today before we no lynch, and that’s still better, even if tomorrow he’d have the kill to work with.
I claim not-UB.
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By the same logic I'm not inclined to give opinions on how I feel about Dylan vs. Jimmm and Faust-Swan
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Okay, caught up, and on second thought, I'd totally NK me here, so maybe I should give reads after all. Thoughts on this?
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Okay, caught up, and on second thought, I'd totally NK me here, so maybe I should give reads after all. Thoughts on this?
I think it's not worht it to hold back at this point. For you, that is. I can still keep my thoughts in the Mason QT because even if I die DatSwan can share them.
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Okay, I'll call the scumtem: mcmcsalot, Joth, Dylan
Jimmm is like the scummiest possible person for Dylan to have copped, even granted that believing Dylan's cop claim depends on assuming Dylan made bad cop choices; Jimm is the player who absolutely works best with a gameplan of implicating Faust + Swan as scum fakeclaiming masons, it is by far the most convenient result to get against a scumteam of Jim-Faust-Swan if you want to push that narrative, and it makes no sense to assume there is another cop so strongly Dylan wants to avoid making a correct cop choice.
Joth's reaction to Dylan may as well be a scumbuddy claim. Momsalon by POE.
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I guess I haven't actually claimed not-UB yet.
For the record, idk why people are getting the idea that I for sure believe Dylan's claim (which I guess is the basis for this idea that we're partners). I just think it needs to be considered.
To me personally, the cop claim feels to clumsy to be scum. To over-the-top and unnecessary. It doesn't make sense. And Jimmmmm's reaction felt very scummy. I mean, he really came at me. He had all kinds of frenzied defenses ready. It did not feel like a falsely accused towny to me.
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By the same logic I'm not inclined to give opinions on how I feel about Dylan vs. Jimmm and Faust-Swan
We need to be careful with this. I don't think it's Dylan vs Jim-Faust-Swan. It's Dylan vs Jim. Dylan could be town and Jim could be scum without Faust and Swan being scum. Masons and a UB can co-exist with a triple M role.
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He had all kinds of frenzied defenses ready.
This seems like an oxymoron. If I had them ready, they wouldn't be frenzied.
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It did not feel like a falsely accused towny to me.
How would you expect a falsely accused Townie to react with the game on the line?
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I do not believe Dylan. I am mobile now so will post later but there is just no way that they don’t cop a mason as town. Even if they are worried about the shot. It’s a double IC or double skum find.
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By the same logic I'm not inclined to give opinions on how I feel about Dylan vs. Jimmm and Faust-Swan
We need to be careful with this. I don't think it's Dylan vs Jim-Faust-Swan. It's Dylan vs Jim.
I agree that we need to be careful. I don’t agree it MUST be Dylan Vs Jimmm, given our situation in MYLO.
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Vote: Dylan
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Okay, I'll call the scumtem: mcmcsalot, Joth, Dylan
Jimmm is like the scummiest possible person for Dylan to have copped, even granted that believing Dylan's cop claim depends on assuming Dylan made bad cop choices; Jimm is the player who absolutely works best with a gameplan of implicating Faust + Swan as scum fakeclaiming masons, it is by far the most convenient result to get against a scumteam of Jim-Faust-Swan if you want to push that narrative, and it makes no sense to assume there is another cop so strongly Dylan wants to avoid making a correct cop choice.
Joth's reaction to Dylan may as well be a scumbuddy claim. Momsalon by POE.
Have you given thought to the scenario where Jimmmmm and Dylan are both scum?
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Vote: Dylan
Suddenly not feeling the no-lynch, eh?
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One of you needs to unvote! If you ARE both town and Dylan is town, scum can quickhammer Dylan right now!
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Vote: Dylan
Suddenly not feeling the no-lynch, eh?
Correct.
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One of you needs to unvote! If you ARE both town and Dylan is town, scum can quickhammer Dylan right now!
If Dylan is town, then one scum is already voting for him...
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Like, you understand that there is no way that Dylan and Jimmmmm are both scum, right?
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Like, you understand that there is no way that Dylan and Jimmmmm are both scum town, right?
*sigh* EBWOP
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Like, you understand that there is no way that Dylan and Jimmmmm are both scum town, right?
*sigh* EBWOP
I think both statements are true. But with 3 scum alive, someone only needs 2 town votes on them to be hammered. So you and Swan voting makes a quickhammer possible, Jimmmm's vote notwithstanding.
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Ok, I now see Swan is not voting yet. I guess I mis-read or misremembered.
Anyway, what's the reasoning behind not no-lynching?
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Ok, I now see Swan is not voting yet. I guess I mis-read or misremembered.
Anyway, what's the reasoning behind not no-lynching?
We are going to have to make a decision eventually. With the claim it almost doesn’t matter who they choose to kill at night, as tomorrow we still choose between Dylan and Jimm. But if we choose today, it pretty much forces skum to kill me or Faust, which ICs the other. Or they could keep riding this no mason kill thing out, but i don’t see that likely.
Whatever - we do it now or later. If now, we get to direct Skums NK. If later, Skum gets to choose Willy nilly.
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vote: no lynch
I don’t really believe Dylan, but i still would not put beyond faust and DS the gambit they would play. As much as i believe they are masons i would like to see the confirmation. I’ve been fooled like this all too many times.
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vote: no lynch
I don’t really believe Dylan, but i still would not put beyond faust and DS the gambit they would play. As much as i believe they are masons i would like to see the confirmation. I’ve been fooled like this all too many times.
You changed your tone from here:
I think it's really stupid for scum to try to set up faust and Swan and it works for us in a really good way, PoE is strong with this one. Also I thought silver was scum pretty probably, so I like the kill. I have a couple more days of low activity, hope I'll be more active after, sorry
Why?
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Like, you understand that there is no way that Dylan and Jimmmmm are both scum town, right?
*sigh* EBWOP
I think both statements are true. But with 3 scum alive, someone only needs 2 town votes on them to be hammered. So you and Swan voting makes a quickhammer possible, Jimmmm's vote notwithstanding.
Both statements are definitely not true. It is totally plausbile for Dylan and Jimmmmmm to both be scum.
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Ok, I now see Swan is not voting yet. I guess I mis-read or misremembered.
Anyway, what's the reasoning behind not no-lynching?
We are going to have to make a decision eventually. With the claim it almost doesn’t matter who they choose to kill at night, as tomorrow we still choose between Dylan and Jimm. But if we choose today, it pretty much forces skum to kill me or Faust, which ICs the other. Or they could keep riding this no mason kill thing out, but i don’t see that likely.
Whatever - we do it now or later. If now, we get to direct Skums NK. If later, Skum gets to choose Willy nilly.
But if we mislynch, there is no later.
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Like, you understand that there is no way that Dylan and Jimmmmm are both scum town, right?
*sigh* EBWOP
I think both statements are true. But with 3 scum alive, someone only needs 2 town votes on them to be hammered. So you and Swan voting makes a quickhammer possible, Jimmmm's vote notwithstanding.
Both statements are definitely not true. It is totally plausible for Dylan and Jimmmmmm to both be scum.
Is it? I mean, sure, scum accuses scum of being scum with the idea being that we lynch one and that "ICs" the other. But why do that at MyLo? You're really cutting off your nose to spite your face.
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I'd still like this answered, by the way:
I don't have much time tonight but I reread Dylan and my reasons for voting for him are really only from very early in the game. I will Unvote for now and hopefully have time to look at joth tomorrow.
So why did you revote him at the start of today then?
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I think we should be no lynching and not giving mafia info on our reads currently. Or make an argument for why we should lynch now. (I disagree with lynching now from a pure % play reason) but if anyone is going to make reads it’s because they are confident enough to lynch.
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Vote Count 3.1
Jimmmmm (1): Dylan32
Dylan32 (2): Jimmmmm, faust
No Lynch (1): LaLight
Not Voting (4): mcmcsalot, DatSwan, UmbrageOfSnow, jotheonah
With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.
D3 ends on Tuesday 8th January at 23.59 Czech time (17.59 forum time).
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I'd still like this answered, by the way:
I don't have much time tonight but I reread Dylan and my reasons for voting for him are really only from very early in the game. I will Unvote for now and hopefully have time to look at joth tomorrow.
So why did you revote him at the start of today yesterday then?
Because he was my top scum read at the time and LaLight was questioning why I wasn't voting for him.
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I think we should be no lynching and not giving mafia info on our reads currently. Or make an argument for why we should lynch now. (I disagree with lynching now from a pure % play reason) but if anyone is going to make reads it’s because they are confident enough to lynch.
I don't know what that means.
If we no lynch, then we put ourselves in a position where scum only needs to convince 1 townie to win the game. So long as we do not no lynch, town still has a stronger presence relative to scum. Giving that up is worth it if we get a bunch of extra information for it, but I don't see how that is; we have to decide the Dylan vs Jimmmmm situation and unless someone can make a compelling argument for how the nightkill will inform this decision, we might as well decide today.
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@Space: In case of a repeated no lynch/no kill, what happens?
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Like, you understand that there is no way that Dylan and Jimmmmm are both scum town, right?
*sigh* EBWOP
I think both statements are true. But with 3 scum alive, someone only needs 2 town votes on them to be hammered. So you and Swan voting makes a quickhammer possible, Jimmmm's vote notwithstanding.
Both statements are definitely not true. It is totally plausible for Dylan and Jimmmmmm to both be scum.
Is it? I mean, sure, scum accuses scum of being scum with the idea being that we lynch one and that "ICs" the other. But why do that at MyLo? You're really cutting off your nose to spite your face.
The fact that you are making this argument is the very reason to do it.
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@Space: In case of a repeated no lynch/no kill, what happens?
9. If the game goes on for 3 days and 3 nights without a lynch or nightkill, town wins.
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vote: no lynch
I don’t really believe Dylan, but i still would not put beyond faust and DS the gambit they would play. As much as i believe they are masons i would like to see the confirmation. I’ve been fooled like this all too many times.
You changed your tone from here:
I think it's really stupid for scum to try to set up faust and Swan and it works for us in a really good way, PoE is strong with this one. Also I thought silver was scum pretty probably, so I like the kill. I have a couple more days of low activity, hope I'll be more active after, sorry
Why?
I started doubting.
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I think we should be no lynching and not giving mafia info on our reads currently. Or make an argument for why we should lynch now. (I disagree with lynching now from a pure % play reason) but if anyone is going to make reads it’s because they are confident enough to lynch.
I don't know what that means.
If we no lynch, then we put ourselves in a position where scum only needs to convince 1 townie to win the game. So long as we do not no lynch, town still has a stronger presence relative to scum. Giving that up is worth it if we get a bunch of extra information for it, but I don't see how that is; we have to decide the Dylan vs Jimmmmm situation and unless someone can make a compelling argument for how the nightkill will inform this decision, we might as well decide today.
Yeah, unless we’ll lynch town? Then the game will be over? The whole point of no lynch istoreduce the lynchpool and possibly create an IC
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Yeah I don't see faust's argument againt no-lynching. Either way we need all Town members or a bus, but if we no-lynch first, there's one fewer Townie to be convinced.
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I think we should be no lynching and not giving mafia info on our reads currently. Or make an argument for why we should lynch now. (I disagree with lynching now from a pure % play reason) but if anyone is going to make reads it’s because they are confident enough to lynch.
I don't know what that means.
If we no lynch, then we put ourselves in a position where scum only needs to convince 1 townie to win the game. So long as we do not no lynch, town still has a stronger presence relative to scum. Giving that up is worth it if we get a bunch of extra information for it, but I don't see how that is; we have to decide the Dylan vs Jimmmmm situation and unless someone can make a compelling argument for how the nightkill will inform this decision, we might as well decide today.
Yeah, unless we’ll lynch town? Then the game will be over? The whole point of no lynch istoreduce the lynchpool and possibly create an IC
The lynchpool right now is {Jimmmmmm, Dylan}. I will not be reduced after one night.
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Yeah I don't see faust's argument againt no-lynching. Either way we need all Town members or a bus, but if we no-lynch first, there's one fewer Townie to be convinced.
This is downright absurd.
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vote: no lynch
I don’t really believe Dylan, but i still would not put beyond faust and DS the gambit they would play. As much as i believe they are masons i would like to see the confirmation. I’ve been fooled like this all too many times.
You changed your tone from here:
I think it's really stupid for scum to try to set up faust and Swan and it works for us in a really good way, PoE is strong with this one. Also I thought silver was scum pretty probably, so I like the kill. I have a couple more days of low activity, hope I'll be more active after, sorry
Why?
I started doubting.
Why?
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Like, you understand that there is no way that Dylan and Jimmmmm are both scum town, right?
*sigh* EBWOP
I think both statements are true. But with 3 scum alive, someone only needs 2 town votes on them to be hammered. So you and Swan voting makes a quickhammer possible, Jimmmm's vote notwithstanding.
Both statements are definitely not true. It is totally plausible for Dylan and Jimmmmmm to both be scum.
Is it? I mean, sure, scum accuses scum of being scum with the idea being that we lynch one and that "ICs" the other. But why do that at MyLo? You're really cutting off your nose to spite your face.
The fact that you are making this argument is the very reason to do it.
You and Jim both really like this nonargument, which can be used to respond to any argument based on the premise “why would scum do X”?
It’s annoying because it ignores the substance of the argument. Yes, scum can do any crazy thing for the reason that “scum would never do this crazy thing”. Sure.
That said, scum are still rational players trying to maximize their win condition. Arguments that say “I think scum is less likely to do X because X makes them less likely to win than Y” are still worthwhile.
Here’s the situation: scum had this game in the bag. All they needed today was a mislynch and we had basically no idea who they were. That’s how today started. So what is more likely: that scum decided to throw away the game with a high risk, high reward fake cop claim, or that we rolled the unlikely-but-possible setup that had a cop and he got lucky with an unorthodox investigation choice? I think it’s the second one.
By the same token, “scum makes a fake cop claim and accuses themselves in order to guarantee the game that they’ve basically won drags on two more turns” strikes me as absurdly implausible.
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vote: no lynch
I don’t really believe Dylan, but i still would not put beyond faust and DS the gambit they would play. As much as i believe they are masons i would like to see the confirmation. I’ve been fooled like this all too many times.
You changed your tone from here:
I think it's really stupid for scum to try to set up faust and Swan and it works for us in a really good way, PoE is strong with this one. Also I thought silver was scum pretty probably, so I like the kill. I have a couple more days of low activity, hope I'll be more active after, sorry
Why?
I started doubting.
Why?
Because i reevaluated the game state. As earlier believing you was safe and correct, now i see that as long as there’s a little probability of you and Swan being scums, i need to reevaluate my seeing of the game because we can lose to you and i will be like “oh i was fooled again”
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I was seeing calamitas the other day and we were recalling the craziest forum mafia games, especially M88 where Robz just fooled me the whole game, i was 100% set on him being town
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You and Jim both really like this nonargument, which can be used to respond to any argument based on the premise “why would scum do X”?
Being asked "why would scum do X?" is very suspect when the person asking it is likley scum. If Dylan's actions lead people to believe that he's Town because his claim wouldn't come from scum, then his actions would seem pretty solid.
Honestly when I saw his claim I thought it was clever and that it would work until I considered the likelihood of a non-Mason UB existing.
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ere’s the situation: scum had this game in the bag. All they needed today was a mislynch and we had basically no idea who they were. That’s how today started.
See I don't think that is anywhere near true. Dylan and Jimmmmm (and you) were the most suspected people before today. If scum sits there, they would have felt the heat. And as soon as one scum flips, it's much easier to nail down the rest. I don't think a gambit to make sure that one of them survives is at all unlikely, because that's all they really need.
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ere’s the situation: scum had this game in the bag. All they needed today was a mislynch and we had basically no idea who they were. That’s how today started.
See I don't think that is anywhere near true. Dylan and Jimmmmm (and you) were the most suspected people before today. If scum sits there, they would have felt the heat. And as soon as one scum flips, it's much easier to nail down the rest. I don't think a gambit to make sure that one of them survives is at all unlikely, because that's all they really need.
That’s not how I would characterize the last few days. Jimm and Dylan had cases on them early on, but not lately. And I don’t think there’s been a serious wagon on me all game.
Anyway, I guess if we lynch scum, we are still at MyLo tomorrow. So maybe it’s not entirely implausible that they’re playing for the next day. Anyway, if they are both scum, we still lynch one today. We just have to keep in mind that the other one is still a suspect tomorrow.
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We can lynch either Dylan or Jimmm today. Or we can no lynch and lynch either Dylan’s or Jimm tomorrow.
Skum will maintain a MYLO standing as long as we lynch, and a LYLO as long as we no lynch... or they will win.
Here is the thing - assuming we actually manage to somehow get to 3 players left... the one absolute certainty i can tell you is they are not gonna let that 3 player squad be faust-swan-skum.
So assuming we don’t mislynch, we actually have them by the you know what’s here.
If they kill one of us, it ICs the other... and once they kill one they have to kill the other or it leaves them with an IC in the final 3.
And as previously pointed out, they cannot have us both alive at that point either.
Ok ramble ramble - the point is that they know that fault/me are masons, and they know they need to either push a mislynch or make sure we are picked off.
If we no lynch, or lynch probably still, they kill one of us tonight. They cannot afford to let us live any longer. So the idea of waiting on a no lynch to gain more info is kinda dumb.
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Also in regards to Dylan, everyone needs to consider just the simple likelihood:
1) did not choose to cop a mason
2) chose to cop a skummy player instead of a mid range player
3) also this would be a minimum of 5 letter roles i think
4) also also there is a GF in the game so not only did they pick off of masons but picked not the GF or town.
So after you add up all the unquantifiable absurdities... there is still the easy fact that they were 2/9 to get a guilty last night.
Ahhh!
Vote: Dylan
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Also in regards to Dylan, everyone needs to consider just the simple likelihood:
1) did not choose to cop a mason
2) chose to cop a skummy player instead of a mid range player
3) also this would be a minimum of 5 letter roles i think
4) also also there is a GF in the game so not only did they pick off of masons but picked not the GF or town.
So after you add up all the unquantifiable absurdities... there is still the easy fact that they were 2/9 to get a guilty last night.
Ahhh!
Vote: Dylan
What's a GF?
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Also in regards to Dylan, everyone needs to consider just the simple likelihood:
1) did not choose to cop a mason
2) chose to cop a skummy player instead of a mid range player
3) also this would be a minimum of 5 letter roles i think
4) also also there is a GF in the game so not only did they pick off of masons but picked not the GF or town.
So after you add up all the unquantifiable absurdities... there is still the easy fact that they were 2/9 to get a guilty last night.
Ahhh!
Vote: Dylan
What's a GF?
Oh godfather. If the godfather was targeted by silver's roleblock, would that have given Dylan a scum result?
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Also in regards to Dylan, everyone needs to consider just the simple likelihood:
1) did not choose to cop a mason
2) chose to cop a skummy player instead of a mid range player
3) also this would be a minimum of 5 letter roles i think
4) also also there is a GF in the game so not only did they pick off of masons but picked not the GF or town.
So after you add up all the unquantifiable absurdities... there is still the easy fact that they were 2/9 to get a guilty last night.
Ahhh!
Vote: Dylan
What's a GF?
Oh godfather. If the godfather was targeted by silver's roleblock, would that have given Dylan a scum result?
Don’t believe so
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So statistics and logic are screaming that Dylan is mafia.
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Yeah I don't see faust's argument againt no-lynching. Either way we need all Town members or a bus, but if we no-lynch first, there's one fewer Townie to be convinced.
This is the argument against No Lynching. More different town to give input now.
Anyway, I'm fine with either, I'm starting to just want to lynch Dylan and get it over with but I don't care if we No Lynch either, the worst thing we can do for our win % is to stall the day out, get everyone disheartened and uninvested in the game and then No Lynch, so I'd rather pick one soon.
Vote: Dylan
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That’s not how I would characterize the last few days. Jimm and Dylan had cases on them early on, but not lately. And I don’t think there’s been a serious wagon on me all game.
You were a candidate yesterday. Half the people voting Robz said they'd rather be voting you, but the wagon never took off.
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Did I hammer?
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Oh godfather. If the godfather was targeted by silver's roleblock, would that have given Dylan a scum result?
If it was that's a super non-standard interpretation of Roleblocker
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How did I only just notice SS was an RB?
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Vote: Dylan
I'm still skeptical but DatSwan's argument is pretty persuasive. And a Dylan lynch has more upside than a Jimmmm lynch since a Dylan scum flip officially ICs the masons (right?)
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So we should note there is absolutely no way Joth didn't know he was hammering in MYLO there, I'd just asked if I hammered and never posted a vote count.
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You've got to bus like you mean it, man.
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Vote: Dylan
I'm still skeptical but DatSwan's argument is pretty persuasive. And a Dylan lynch has more upside than a Jimmmm lynch since a Dylan scum flip officially ICs the masons (right?)
This post makes me happy because it doesn't look like a quickhammer.
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So we should note there is absolutely no way Joth didn't know he was hammering in MYLO there, I'd just asked if I hammered and never posted a vote count.
Was that the hammer? Oh well. We were clearly going to lynch Dylan. Both of the masons, who apparently we've decided are definitely town, were on him, plus two other people and mcmc had expressed a willingness to vote. A lot of people were making very compelling cases that his cop claim was bunk. So ok, bad form, mea culpa, but it's not like i led us down a path we hadn't more or less decided on.
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Like I know I should be super sorry but ... I'm not. I just want to know if we got majorly played or not.
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Was that the hammer? Oh well. We were clearly going to lynch Dylan... but it's not like i led us down a path we hadn't more or less decided on.
This is exactly my point.
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Twilight for next couple hours. If Space doesn't come on by then, I'll end the day. On phone, so hoping they can do it.
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Vote Count 3.final
Jimmmmm (1): Dylan32
Dylan32 (5): Jimmmmm, faust, DatSwan, UmbrageOfSnow, jotheonah
No Lynch (1): LaLight
Not Voting (1): mcmcsalot
With 8 alive, it took 5 to lynch.
Dylan was a Kmotr of team Šmejdi (Scum Godfather).
Czech phrase almost verbatim from one of today's Duolingo lessons: "Umřel před pěti minutami" -> "He died five minutes ago".
N3 starts now and ends at 23.00 Czech time (5pm forum time) on Sunday 6th January 2019. Action deadline is 1 hour before that.
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Dobré ráno všem!
Still looking a bit violent in our little Czech Vesnice.
faust was killed in the night. He was a Zednář of team Vesničané, a Mason.
Czech fact: Like many languages, Czech has grammatical gender. Unlike many other languages, it has four different gender patterns: masculine animate, masculine inanimate, feminine and neuter. Within each of those there are several completely different declension patterns that a word might follow, and each declension pattern has 14 entries (seven cases, times singular+plural).
Vote Count 4.0
Not voting (10): LaLight, mcmcsalot, DatSwan, Jimmmmm, UmbrageOfSnow, jotheonah
With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.
D4 starts now and ends on Sunday 13th January at 23.00 Czech time (5pm forum time).
Thread Unlocked.
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Welp, I guess they really are Masons. Good to have that finally confirmed.
I am somewhat V/LA until Thursday but it shouldn’t be too severe.
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Lalight and me on wagon, joth and umbrage on wagon.
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Thank god they’re masons
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Lalight and me on wagon, joth and umbrage on wagon.
Did you deliberately forget jimmmmm?
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I think it’s mcmc and joth.
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Thank god they’re masons
Of course they're Masons. Scum points for you.
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Thank god they’re masons
Of course they're Masons. Scum points for you.
Aa i was saying i was pretty sure, but not positive.
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Okie dokie - so we obv assumes faust wasn’t waking up. I think we narrowed what should be today’s pool down significantly and accurately. Keeping that to myself for now for obvious reasons.
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I think it’s mcmc and joth.
Summary?
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Jimmm - who is your top skum pick?
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Lalight and me on wagon, joth and umbrage on wagon.
Did you deliberately forget jimmmmm?
No I highly doubt with one mislynch needed to win the scum team decided to fake claim cop and claim a scum result on one of their own. It’s completely unnecessary so I’m pretty certain mafia is amongst lalight, joth, umbrage, (me for non me players).
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Jimmm - who is your top skum pick?
joth
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Lalight and me on wagon, joth and umbrage on wagon.
Did you deliberately forget jimmmmm?
No I highly doubt with one mislynch needed to win the scum team decided to fake claim cop and claim a scum result on one of their own. It’s completely unnecessary so I’m pretty certain mafia is amongst lalight, joth, umbrage, (me for non me players).
I have a feeling this will be more or less ignored coming from everybody’s number one scumread, but it’s worth noting that faust, the one person who made a point of arguing that Dylan and Jimmmm could both be scum yesterday, was last night’s kill.
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Lalight and me on wagon, joth and umbrage on wagon.
Did you deliberately forget jimmmmm?
No I highly doubt with one mislynch needed to win the scum team decided to fake claim cop and claim a scum result on one of their own. It’s completely unnecessary so I’m pretty certain mafia is amongst lalight, joth, umbrage, (me for non me players).
I have a feeling this will be more or less ignored coming from everybody’s number one scumread, but it’s worth noting that faust, the one person who made a point of arguing that Dylan and Jimmmm could both be scum yesterday, was last night’s kill.
I think it’s most likely coincidental/lucky because I’m sure faust was the go to kill because you know he’s faust. Also I agree it is not impossible Dylan/jimm are both scum, if so it’s just a gamble that I find extremely unlikely scum makes.
Think about the goal for Dylan had to be to get us to lynch jimm, if jimm is his partner and he wants the crowd, then scum has to kill one of faust/swan which is less than ideal since they could continue pushing that Faust/swan were lying. It loses them a member and puts them in a suboptimal position if it goes through. They also are in a sub optimal position with the claim backfiring, but I think they made a calculated risk and took the chance at winning with a jimm mislynch. It’s really the one way the claim from Dylan is reasonable.
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Lalight and me on wagon, joth and umbrage on wagon.
Did you deliberately forget jimmmmm?
No I highly doubt with one mislynch needed to win the scum team decided to fake claim cop and claim a scum result on one of their own. It’s completely unnecessary so I’m pretty certain mafia is amongst lalight, joth, umbrage, (me for non me players).
I have a feeling this will be more or less ignored coming from everybody’s number one scumread, but it’s worth noting that faust, the one person who made a point of arguing that Dylan and Jimmmm could both be scum yesterday, was last night’s kill.
I don't think me being given IC status is as likely as you're worried it is.
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i recommend anyone that thinks Jimm could be skum do a read through and and find the third skum. We are not punching Jimm today.
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i recommend anyone that thinks Jimm could be skum do a read through and and find the third skum. We are not punching Jimm today.
Lol auto correct. Lynching. Or punching. Either i suppose.
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Want to clarify i am not trying to persuade people against the possibility of Jimm being skum. Just that it is negative utility to lynch him first.
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Day 1 Lynch
silverspawn (1): ashersky
Galzria (7): faust, DatSwan, Jimmmmm, UmbrageOfSnow, mcmcsalot, silverspawn, jotheonah
Jimmmmm (4): Galzria, Robz888, Dylan32, LaLight
With 12 alive, it tool 7 to lynch.
Day 2 Lynch
UmbrageOfSnow (1): DatSwan
Robz888 (6): faust, UmbrageOfSnow, jotheonah, LaLight, silverspawn, Dylan32
jotheonah (2): Jimmmmm, mcmcpsalot
faust (1): Robz888
With 10 alive, it tooks 6 to lynch.
Day 3 Lynch
Jimmmmm (1): Dylan32
Dylan32 (5): Jimmmmm, faust, DatSwan, UmbrageOfSnow, jotheonah
No Lynch (1): LaLight
Not Voting (1): mcmcsalot
With 8 alive, it took 5 to lynch.
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Umbrage and Joth have been on all three wagons, lalight and I were both on one off two.
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Post count:
Joth - 100+
Datswan - 78
umbrage - 71
Lalight - 68
Jimmm - 64
Mcmc - 33
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So upon review of the wagons and some light reading lalight comes out as the scummiest to me. I do have who I think is scum between joth and umbrage in my head but I’m not sure hats helpuf to say yet. Wait never mind swan is dying tonight no reason to hide reads I think it’s lalight and umbrage.
First off I think one scum was on wagon and one off yesterday. I think joth has been the towniest of lalight/umbrage/joth. Umbrage has flown quite under the radar the whole game. I also think joth is more likely to disagree with Dylan having fake claimed in the first place.
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I am getting a town read on mcmcsalot.
Umbrage and LaLight could definitely both be scum. They’ve been under the radar, especially LaLight. If I have time, I’ll go back and look for evidence of a Jim-LaLight-Umbrage team.
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If I have time, I’ll go back and look for evidence of a Jim-LaLight-Umbrage team.
Good luck.
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I am getting a town read on mcmcsalot.
Umbrage and LaLight could definitely both be scum. They’ve been under the radar, especially LaLight. If I have time, I’ll go back and look for evidence of a Jim-LaLight-Umbrage team.
? Dylan is he third scum. If you are looking for a jimm connection to want to look for Dylan/jimm/lalight or Dylan/jimm/umbrage.
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I am getting a town read on mcmcsalot.
Umbrage and LaLight could definitely both be scum. They’ve been under the radar, especially LaLight. If I have time, I’ll go back and look for evidence of a Jim-LaLight-Umbrage team.
? Dylan is he third scum. If you are looking for a jimm connection to want to look for Dylan/jimm/lalight or Dylan/jimm/umbrage.
Right sorry. I worded that really weirdly. I meant a Jimm-LaLight or a Jimm-Umbrage. Sorry. A little jet lagged.
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Or umbrage-LaLight. Basically that I will look for the last two scum among those three.
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I am getting a town read on mcmcsalot.
Umbrage and LaLight could definitely both be scum. They’ve been under the radar, especially LaLight. If I have time, I’ll go back and look for evidence of a Jim-LaLight-Umbrage team.
Just the kind of gamesolving you'd expect from town who just hammered scum in MYLO...
PPE: Whether it's a slip or not, my reasoning stands, Joth isn't looking at our interactions with Dylan, he's trying to decide who is scummier of LaLight and I based on our interactions with Jimmmm.
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We lynch Joth today, Swan dies tonight, we no lynch tomorrow and LYLO the day after.
Make sure you share faust's thoughts before the day ends, Swan.
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My expectation going into the day was that both Jimmmm and I are less likely to be scum from LaLight/momsalon's perspectives, so on the lead up to the no lynch scum would try to see which of Jimmm or I they could try to smear more and kill the other, leaving LYLO at mcmc/LaLight/ [Me or Jim].
Look at the play today, not only is Joth playing right into that, but more notably, LaLight isn't.
If Lalight is scum, then we lynch Joth, Swan dies at night, we no lynch, WLOG I die, then LYLO is Jim, scum!Lalight, mcmc, Jim/me less likely to be scum in that set so LaLight is best voting town!mcmc, who crossvotes and leaves Jim/me the decider.
if scum!Lalight started suspecting Jim or I, then whichever doesn't die he's more set to hold back and try to get us to crossvote.
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I'd vote Joth right now but I don't want to risk a quickhammer without Swan getting a chance to post faust's thoughts.
But I don't see my vote going anywhere else today.
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Well that was an extremely scummy set of posts from umbrage in a very dictating and confident tone that I don’t think town has at this point in the game where we have played relatively poorly.
Though I can see the perspective of being on wagon with joth thus town!umbrage being confident of scum!joth. I think for sure at least one scum bussed dylan.
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We lynch Joth today, Swan dies tonight, we no lynch tomorrow and LYLO the day after.
Make sure you share faust's thoughts before the day ends, Swan.
With the exception of it being “lynch someone” today... this should absolutely be the plan.
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I agree tommorow will be a no lynch.
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We lynch Joth today, Swan dies tonight, we no lynch tomorrow and LYLO the day after.
Make sure you share faust's thoughts before the day ends, Swan.
With the exception of it being “lynch someone” today... this should absolutely be the plan.
Can we add another exception where we don’t lynch me? Cause otherwise we’re going to lose the game and we won’t get a chance to do all that other stuff.
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Do people want me to go ahead and claim? I know I’m not at L-1 but I feel like I might as well be.
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Do people want me to go ahead and claim? I know I’m not at L-1 but I feel like I might as well be.
I do.
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Do people want me to go ahead and claim? I know I’m not at L-1 but I feel like I might as well be.
I think mass claim at this point couldn't hurt. No one do it yet please - just general thoughts? before or against all?
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I am getting a town read on mcmcsalot.
Umbrage and LaLight could definitely both be scum. They’ve been under the radar, especially LaLight. If I have time, I’ll go back and look for evidence of a Jim-LaLight-Umbrage team.
Just the kind of gamesolving you'd expect from town who just hammered scum in MYLO...
Just to be clear, is this sarcasm?
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Yes it was sarcasm, yes I'm in favor of massclaim.
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Just the kind of gamesolving you'd expect from town who just hammered scum in MYLO...
You know, better than hammering town at MyLo. That hammer could have saved us the game. Maybe scum had some plan to save Dylan at L-1 and I ruined it with my strong pro-active vote.
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I actually really like the idea of a mass claim the more i think about it.
Are there any objections?
Also - assuming everyone is good with me setting order?
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I actually really like the idea of a mass claim the more i think about it.
Are there any objections?
Also - assuming everyone is good with me setting order?
Do it.
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K well that 50% on board so I am gonna a use the IC title a little bit here and say that’s good enough for me.
Also we will be doing it differently than usual. No claim order - I’ll let you know the next person to claim after the current at base player claims.
Joth - since you volunteered - you can go first.
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I am a Jester. I'm definitely winning.
nah, JK I'm VT.
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McMc next
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Vanilla townie here!
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Jimmmm next
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VT.
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LL then Snow
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Vanilla Townie
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Snow up
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While we wait... anyone know fun joints in Australia? Traveling around here for 3 weeks and i do t know a lick about the place.
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Also also friendly reminder as it seems a lot of us are kind of busy with life this game. The DL is on Sunday, and as we all know how the weekend can be... we should probably get to things quickly today.
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While we wait... anyone know fun joints in Australia? Traveling around here for 3 weeks and i do t know a lick about the place.
Whereabouts? What kind of fun joints?
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I'm a 1-shot RB.
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Also also friendly reminder as it seems a lot of us are kind of busy with life this game. The DL is on Sunday, and as we all know how the weekend can be... we should probably get to things quickly today.
I strongly agree with this, my vote is on Joth, but I want to hear any last useful faust thoughts (and Swan thoughts) before we vote.
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Won't you claim your action?
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Okay so we are confirmed to be either:
(C/E)MBBTT - Mafia has Stongman and Roleblocker
(C/E)MBTTT - Mafia has 1-shot Strongman and Roleblocker
It means there is slightly more incentive to lynch lalight/joth/me. If we flip a full strongman umbrage is confirmed scum. However my guess is if umbrage is scum he is their 1-shot strongman, then it’s a completely safe game claim.
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Won't you claim your action?
Why would I ever do that?
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Okay so we are confirmed to be either:
(C/E)MBBTT - Mafia has Stongman and Roleblocker
(C/E)MBTTT - Mafia has 1-shot Strongman and Roleblocker
It means there is slightly more incentive to lynch lalight/joth/me. If we flip a full strongman umbrage is confirmed scum. However my guess is if umbrage is scum he is their 1-shot strongman, then it’s a completely safe game claim.
We're MMM(E/C)B
From your POV, if I'm lying the must be a T.
Eitehr way, scum have a full Roleblocker and a full Strongman, the only difference is whether or not they have a 1-shot BP on one of them.
So I guess the safe money is on Joth being the Strongman, mcmc is the Roleblocker and 1-shot BP.
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EBWOP
We're MMM(E/C)B{B}
From your POV, if I'm lying the {B} must be a T.
Eitehr way, scum have a full Roleblocker and a full Strongman, the only difference is whether or not they have a 1-shot BP on one of them.
So I guess the safe money is on Joth being the Strongman, mcmc is the Roleblocker and 1-shot BP.
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We have to be single M. If we were MMM there would be a universal backup.
Look Umbrage made a setup analysis mistake, it must be a scumslip and he must be scum, right Jim?
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Oh, now I feel dumb, yeah
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Trying to analyze if umbrage makes this mistake while fake claiming something as scum is a big giant punch bowl of widow.
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Wifom*
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All this is doing is pushing me more so to say we should be lynching lalight today no lynching tommorow and then there is a slight chance the decision is made easier.
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All this is doing is pushing me more so to say we should be lynching lalight today no lynching tommorow and then there is a slight chance the decision is made easier.
Why LaLight?
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We have to be single M. If we were MMM there would be a universal backup.
Look Umbrage made a setup analysis mistake, it must be a scumslip and he must be scum, right Jim?
That's not the reaction I had.
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Stop wasting time analyzing snow. Literally zero reason to lie in their spot. They were easily the towniest player alive except for me. If they were skum they could of just claimed VT and ridden it out.
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Day 1:
- First note is Joth leaving the Dylan wagon as soon as it really starts taking off with little reason.
- Next note is LL avoiding both Dylan and Swan wagon as they start to rise. Could be skum distancing.
- My wagon starts to pick up, McMc puts me at L-1 super out of no where. Which is both strange, but also very bold.
- After I claim, people do not go back to Dylan, but instead go over to Jimm.
As we approach the end of day the wagons lay as follows:
silverspawn (1): ashersky
Jimmmmm (6): silverspawn, Galzria, Robz888, Dylan32, jotheonah, LaLight
Galzria (5): faust, DatSwan, Jimmmmm, UmbrageOfSnow, mcmcsalot
The unwillingness for Jimm to get hammered leaves us with 3 options:
1) All skum is already on Jim (Dylan, Joth, LL) - Unlikely
2) 2 Skum are on Jimm and the third doesn't want to triple it up. So, (Dylan, Joth) or (Dylan, LL) - Most likely IMO.
3) Jimm is skum. So, (Dylan, Jimm, X) - Plausible. But when we consider Dylan was on Jimm so long for L1 and combine it with the claim against Jimm... I am leaning against it at this point.
So at the end of Day 1, my thoughts are that there is skum within [Joth/LL] (but not both), and there is skum within [Snow/McMc].
The exception to these pools would be IF Jimm is skum, then the Day 1 VCA kind of makes it [Dylan/Jimm/Anyone] - which is why no Jimm today.
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Day 2 Stuff:
1. Snow starts the Dylan wagon - probably not snow/Dylan
2. LL won’t vote for Dylan, votes for McMc instead - Skummy, but points against McMc/LL team.
3. Joth goes for Snow - not partners
4. We have a quick succession of votes for Robz: UoS - joth - LaLight. Seems unlikely that there are 2 scum in here. That would put 1 scum in Jimmmmm/mcmc.
5. Counter wagon of Robz starts on Joth. Joth gets to (4) with [SS, Jimm, McMc, Robz] and then just dies. The fact Dylan is off both wagons strikes me as skummy. The above point would also suggest there is bussing here - so either McMc or Jimm.
So day 2 take away makes Joth and one of McMc/LL/Jimm skummy looking.
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Day 3 Stuff:
1. LL reallllly confident we are masons - could be conf!bias
2. LL, Snow, McMc all want no lynch - relevant bc the play here would be to iso Dylan/Jimm and also push for no lynch knowing they were gonna off me or faust anyways.
3. So if everyone “put there money where there mouth is” we would be:
Jimmmmm (1): Dylan32
Dylan32 (2): Jimmmmm, faust, Swan
No Lynch (1): LaLight, Snow, McMc
Off (1): Joth
Here’s the thing- Jimm isn’t leaving Dylan after the accusation. Dylan isn’t leaving Jimm for the same reason. Faust and i had made it pretty clear we are not wanting a no lynch today. So the only way we were getting to no lynch would be by default, which would look skummy af. So, for this bit, it doesn’t even matter if Jimm is skum or not... with this set up, skum is gonna bus.
Joth and snow are the two changers - and to previous points, it is t both of them.
Day 3 had me looking at [Joth/Snow], [McMc/LL] and then depending on how that pans out, i guess there is a world where it is one of those brackets picks plus Jimm.
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Team Summaries:
1. Likely that there is exactly one skum in [Joth/Snow]
2. Likely that there is exactly one skum in [LL/McMc]
3. Jimm could be skum if McMc is skum, and maybe Joth.. maybe.
TLDR; I think it is Dylan, Joth, and one of [McMc, LL, Jim] - in that order of likeliness.
Snow is my top town read, once i shake the paranoia away... and Joth was mutually both masons top SR... so that makes the Joth/Snow choice fairly straightforward for me.
Vote: Joth
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Stop wasting time analyzing snow. Literally zero reason to lie in their spot. They were easily the towniest player alive except for me. If they were skum they could of just claimed VT and ridden it out.
Ah but maybe that’s why he did it— to make you IC him. As the last claimant in the mass claim and scum, he would have all the information (unless town lied). So he could pick almost any claim and know it was safe. At that point why not claim a role?
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I'm rereading now, and it seems like there's a lot of confirmation bias in Swan's case against me. Like, a lot. He's been scumreading me from day 1 and I've been attacking him a fair bit. The same goes for Jimmmm.
But now I'm not getting a fair shake because they've decided I'm scum so everything I do becomes evidence of my scumminess. So when I messed up analyzing the setup yesterday it was a scumslip, but when Snow did exactly the same thing today he was obv!town. When I try to make a case based on "scum would never do that" I'm told that I'm just WIFOMing, but IC DatSwan gets to say
Stop wasting time analyzing snow. Literally zero reason to lie in their spot. They were easily the towniest player alive except for me. If they were skum they could of just claimed VT and ridden it out.
... which is the same thing.
Swan decided I was scum a long time ago and now it's all he can see. Which would be fine if we weren't at MyLo. But now he is going to lead this town off a cliff as IC.
I don't know who the other two scum are -- I'm rereading right now looking for leads -- but I do know it's not me. And I would urge everyone to seriously consider that I might be town, just for a minute. I really don't want us to lose the game this way.
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To quote faust:
Usually the best way to tell if someone is town is if they really wind you up because they are wrong about everything.
I have been wrong about a lot of things this game. But I am town.
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Honestly, now that I'm thinking about it/rereading, scum has probably been keeping me alive on purpose because of my bad reads. They knew that it would be easy to convince the masonICs to lynch me.
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My day 1 endgame makes zero sense as scum. Scum would have been fine with a no lynch, right? But I pushed against a no lynch really hard, and then hammered someone who had a townread on. Assuming you don't think Jimmmmm was my partner, how does that hammer make sense? There's no downside to waiting. Either a Jimmmmm lynch (someone who had already expressed a strong scumread on me and another on Dylan and would have been a serious threat) happens, or a no lynch happens.
You know who's day 1 endgame does match what scum would do?
And then why kill ashersky? I definitely would have killed Jim if I were scum with Dylan, for the reasons I just laid out.
And then last night I hammered Dylan. Who was scum. That's more neutral because I can easily see scum bussing there, but I think they would do it a little more artfully then my hammer.
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Snow, on the other hand, does exactly what I would expect scum to do at the end of day 1 if Jim and Galz were both town. He goes to bed early and stays out of it. lalight is also nowhere to be found.
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Joth - What about McMc?
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Mcmc also did what scum would do.
No lynch would be horrible and I have to leave now until deadline. My problem with the case on jimm is he’s playing like jimm plays. Ugh there is no non jimm or galz thing that’s happening. Im going to vote: galz so him and jimm are at l-2 and I trust people to get one through.
Note especially the "Ugh there is no non jimm or galz thing that’s happening".
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I'm rereading now, and it seems like there's a lot of confirmation bias in Swan's case against me. Like, a lot. He's been scumreading me from day 1 and I've been attacking him a fair bit. The same goes for Jimmmm.
But now I'm not getting a fair shake because they've decided I'm scum so everything I do becomes evidence of my scumminess. So when I messed up analyzing the setup yesterday it was a scumslip, but when Snow did exactly the same thing today he was obv!town. When I try to make a case based on "scum would never do that" I'm told that I'm just WIFOMing, but IC DatSwan gets to say
Stop wasting time analyzing snow. Literally zero reason to lie in their spot. They were easily the towniest player alive except for me. If they were skum they could of just claimed VT and ridden it out.
... which is the same thing.
Swan decided I was scum a long time ago and now it's all he can see. Which would be fine if we weren't at MyLo. But now he is going to lead this town off a cliff as IC.
I don't know who the other two scum are -- I'm rereading right now looking for leads -- but I do know it's not me. And I would urge everyone to seriously consider that I might be town, just for a minute. I really don't want us to lose the game this way.
I did not decide you were skum a long time ago fwiw. You were my number s2 town read day 1 and a bit into day 2. I actually was hardset on Snow until end of day 2.
Also, i really really believe that the concept of lynching Jimm today is just counter productive (for previously stated reasons). And i also think it is way more likely we find skum outside of snow.... but just cuz i am IC doesn’t mean you have to listen to me.... it still means you have to get 4 people to vote the same person tho... so if i am not going snow or Jimm... and they ain’t gonna vote for themselves... i would suggest you look elsewhere for a counter case.
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Mcmc also did what scum would do.
No lynch would be horrible and I have to leave now until deadline. My problem with the case on jimm is he’s playing like jimm plays. Ugh there is no non jimm or galz thing that’s happening. Im going to vote: galz so him and jimm are at l-2 and I trust people to get one through.
Note especially the "Ugh there is no non jimm or galz thing that’s happening".
I noted this in summary as well. Agreed for skum points vs McMc and in a off world i guess Jimm as well
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Now that I re-read it seems like Robz has sort of been going out of his way to buddy and sheep me all game. Which is probably why I've had such a town read on him. I just totally fell for it.
I was only a mediocre player, recordwise, before I left, and now I'm hella rusty, so I feel like town!Robz sheeping me left and right like this doesn't make a lot of sense. But maybe scum!robz figured since he was the one who brought me into the game it would be easy to buddy me and have a permanent town ally. There's evidence of him doing the same thing in subtler ways with Mcmc ("we IC'd each other"), faust ("day 1 pass"), and Galzria.
My memory is that part of Robz's meta is mixing up his scum strategies so that he doesn't have an easily readable meta. And I can see him saying "this game, I'm going to try buddying".
I sort of love this theory, but I also think maybe I'm working too hard to make up a narrative. But what the heck, let's try vote: Robz
This is another thing that I think is a pretty strong case for me being town. If I were scum and I had a townie following every vote I made, why on earth would I draw attention to it and start a wagon on that townie? I would have been working hard to keep Robz alive! Imagine how much better this day would be going for me if Jimmm and Swan were dead and Robz and Galz were alive. Yet I apparently hammered Galz, threw a good deal of fuel on Robz's lynch, and failed to NK Dylan or Swan despite having lots of opportunities.
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I'm rereading now, and it seems like there's a lot of confirmation bias in Swan's case against me. Like, a lot. He's been scumreading me from day 1 and I've been attacking him a fair bit. The same goes for Jimmmm.
But now I'm not getting a fair shake because they've decided I'm scum so everything I do becomes evidence of my scumminess. So when I messed up analyzing the setup yesterday it was a scumslip, but when Snow did exactly the same thing today he was obv!town. When I try to make a case based on "scum would never do that" I'm told that I'm just WIFOMing, but IC DatSwan gets to say
Stop wasting time analyzing snow. Literally zero reason to lie in their spot. They were easily the towniest player alive except for me. If they were skum they could of just claimed VT and ridden it out.
... which is the same thing.
Swan decided I was scum a long time ago and now it's all he can see. Which would be fine if we weren't at MyLo. But now he is going to lead this town off a cliff as IC.
I don't know who the other two scum are -- I'm rereading right now looking for leads -- but I do know it's not me. And I would urge everyone to seriously consider that I might be town, just for a minute. I really don't want us to lose the game this way.
I did not decide you were skum a long time ago fwiw. You were my number s2 town read day 1 and a bit into day 2. I actually was hardset on Snow until end of day 2.
Also, i really really believe that the concept of lynching Jimm today is just counter productive (for previously stated reasons). And i also think it is way more likely we find skum outside of snow.... but just cuz i am IC doesn’t mean you have to listen to me.... it still means you have to get 4 people to vote the same person tho... so if i am not going snow or Jimm... and they ain’t gonna vote for themselves... i would suggest you look elsewhere for a counter case.
I'm working on it. I have another hour until my flight leaves...
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I keep getting distracted by how obviously townie I am.
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I'll move back to vote: DatSwan for a few more hours, Galz. For you. I really need to go now for irl stuff, but I'll probably check back in around 7 or 8 pm forum time. Hopefully ... things of some kind will happen.
The total and complete lack of interest in Dylan has me itching to lynch Dylan more and more.
That said, I'd prefer DerSwan to Jimmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, so
Vote: DatSwan
L-2
Actually vote: datswan L-1
Claim time.
The last three votes on the Swan wagon day 1 are worth noting. Highly likely there's scum among them. Mcmc seems a little eager to get a claim. Snow says Dylan is scummy but then votes for Swan. My vote seems null, but then I'm me so I'm biased.
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Alright, I'm not as far along on this as I had hoped to be but I have to go to my gate.
halfway-ish through a reread, I actually agree with Swan that Snow seems pretty towny. Jim reads scummy to me, but I agree that he's a bad lynch today given everything.
So for me that leaves lalight and mcmc. And what I will say is, neither of them have given me a strong reason to believe they're town. Lalight has been pushing for a mcmc lynch all game, but its never been realistically on the table, which seems like a great place to be with your partner.
I think there's a reasonably good chance they're our scum team, and I think mcmc is currently the scummier read of the two, based on the above posts.
vote:mcmcsalot
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vote: mcmc
for formatting
I'll be back online in like 12 hours. Don't hammer me while I'm gone please.
I mean, ideally don't hammer me at all, but if you do don't let me miss it.
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mcmc, LL, UoS: What was your first instinct/reaction to Dylan's claim?
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Guuuuyyyysssss
Giiiirrllllsssss
Peopppplleeeeeesssss
Where is everyone?
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mcmc, LL, UoS: What was your first instinct/reaction to Dylan's claim?
Well, my initial reaction was I believed it but then nothing really came together so I didn't in the end
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when you'll see mcmc/joth team you'll be like "LaLight told us but we were not listening!"
I am all in for voting joth
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vote: mcmc
for formatting
I'll be back online in like 12 hours. Don't hammer me while I'm gone please.
I mean, ideally don't hammer me at all, but if you do don't let me miss it.
this is just a last minute bussing
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Won't you claim your action?
Why would I ever do that?
this can semiIC someone
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Won't you claim your action?
Why would I ever do that?
this can semiIC someone
Where are you this game?
Run that one back scenario style and think about how that doesn’t make sense.
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mcmc, LL, UoS: What was your first instinct/reaction to Dylan's claim?
Well, my initial reaction was I believed it but then nothing really came together so I didn't in the end
But all you did was vote no vote. You never expressed any interest in either Dylan or Jimm. And you were the only person sitting on the no lynch train all day
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mcmc, LL, UoS: What was your first instinct/reaction to Dylan's claim?
Well, my initial reaction was I believed it but then nothing really came together so I didn't in the end
But all you did was vote no vote. You never expressed any interest in either Dylan or Jimm. And you were the only person sitting on the no lynch train all day
Yes. I would vote Dylan after a no lynch day. I see why you didn't want to no lynch, I had it in me that I didn't believe you 100%
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vote: no lynch
I don’t really believe Dylan, but i still would not put beyond faust and DS the gambit they would play. As much as i believe they are masons i would like to see the confirmation. I’ve been fooled like this all too many times.
This. I didn't really believe Dylan.
After that voting for him would be hammering and it wasn't late in the day. I was unavailable then, we had state holidays till 8th
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mcmc, LL, UoS: What was your first instinct/reaction to Dylan's claim?
Mine was that it was statistically extremely unlikely that Dylan and Faust and swan were all town, and that what made the most sense was Dylan being scum however no lynching and seeing faust flip mason would have made me more comfortable.
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mcmc, LL, UoS: What was your first instinct/reaction to Dylan's claim?
Mine was that it was statistically extremely unlikely that Dylan and Faust and swan were all town, and that what made the most sense was Dylan being scum however no lynching and seeing faust flip mason would have made me more comfortable.
Exactly
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Mcmc also did what scum would do.
No lynch would be horrible and I have to leave now until deadline. My problem with the case on jimm is he’s playing like jimm plays. Ugh there is no non jimm or galz thing that’s happening. Im going to vote: galz so him and jimm are at l-2 and I trust people to get one through.
Note especially the "Ugh there is no non jimm or galz thing that’s happening".
I noted this in summary as well. Agreed for skum points vs McMc and in a off world i guess Jimm as well
I feel like you guys are over analyzing or not taking into account that I’m the one saying this. How in the world are you finding it scummy that I straight up said I had no real reads on jimm or galz, neither of them struck me as scummy and I was bummed there was no case on someone I had a scum read on to join. So I placed my vote where it could be used by my fellow townies who were still awake to keep their options open.
Check that time stamp it’s almost midnight on a weekday, so I’m getting up in 6 hours to go to work and laying in bed realized crap I haven’t checked in hours and never put a vote down. If I am scum I just let deadline pass without showing up or I commit to a lynch that I can back up with a fake read. As mafia I make “fake” scum reads on people all the time because it’s easy to take something that can be construed as scummy from a town player and run with it. I’m rarely ever heady and noncommittal as scum. This is a straight up town player who hasn’t had many reads trying to help.
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Won't you claim your action?
Why would I ever do that?
this can semiIC someone
Also it doesn’t matter if scum knows if you still have the use or not. More info is better right now.
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Won't you claim your action?
Why would I ever do that?
this can semiIC someone
Also it doesn’t matter if scum knows if you still have the use or not. More info is better right now.
No comment.
Vote: Joth
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mcmc, LL, UoS: What was your first instinct/reaction to Dylan's claim?
I was about to vote him and then he basically claimed scum.
It did remove my doubts about Faust-Swan at least.
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Vote Count 4.1
jotheonah (2): DatSwan, UmbrageOfSnow
mcmcsalot (1): jotheonah
Not voting (3): LaLight, mcmcsalot, Jimmmmm
With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.
D4 ends on Sunday 13th January at 23.00 Czech time (5pm forum time).
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Won't you claim your action?
Why would I ever do that?
this can semiIC someone
Also it doesn’t matter if scum knows if you still have the use or not. More info is better right now.
A kill went off every night and we have no vig so there is neither and upside or a downside.
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No one would be iced from a potential Snow result - they could of just been skum that didn’t shoot.
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LL McMc and Jimm need to give some input plz
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vote: joth L-1 is my input
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LL McMc and Jimm need to give some input plz
I don't really see a scenario in which I would agree to keep joth alive to the end. Primarily due to the way he responded to Dylan's claim. Scum obviously discussed the claim the night before and expected it to work.
I really should do my due diligence and give him a proper reread. Maybe I'll get time before deadline.
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unvote
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LL McMc and Jimm need to give some input plz
I don't really see a scenario in which I would agree to keep joth alive to the end. Primarily due to the way he responded to Dylan's claim. Scum obviously discussed the claim the night before and expected it to work.
I really should do my due diligence and give him a proper reread. Maybe I'll get time before deadline.
do your due diligence now. Now that you have posted either Joth is skum or the skum is Dylan - LL - MCMC .... which is (knock on wood) essentially impossible).
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nvm IDK where I was going with that...
Vote: Joth
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either Joth is skum or the skum is Dylan - LL - MCMC .... which is (knock on wood) essentially impossible).
Why?
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either Joth is skum or the skum is Dylan - LL - MCMC .... which is (knock on wood) essentially impossible).
Why?
Because either skum is being a jizz nugget and slow rolling us (unlikely, but would mean I am wrong)... or because since mcmc posted LL put Joth at L-1. Since then you have posted.. assuming you are a non jizz nugget skum, then Joth cannot be town if you are skum. The only other person left to cast a vote is MCMC.
TLDR; If you are town and not skum fucking around with us... then either Joth is Skum or the team is Dylan - LL - MCMC (because it sure af isn't Snow if Joth is skum)
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Uh I guess.
I'm happy to just hammer if you want.
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I’m here. And will give input in the next couple hours
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Uh I guess.
I'm happy to just hammer if you want.
please point out the flaws in logic
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I’m here. And will give input in the next couple hours
kinda holding you to this
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Uh I guess.
I'm happy to just hammer if you want.
I mean yeah? I don't see anyone else getting lynched today.
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Uh I guess.
I'm happy to just hammer if you want.
please point out the flaws in logic
Just finding you hard to follow, but I think you're right. I'll let mcmc say what he wants to before hammering.
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So here is my concern. I know I’m town, I know swan is town, I’m operating under the assumption jimm is town (if not amazing gambit by Dylan mvp). So either one of umbrage/lalight are bussing joth or they are hoping to god jimm or me hammers this for the win.
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Woah I just reread lalight he has literally been pushing for my lynch the entire game.
Rereading umbrage now but I don’t think lalight and umbrage are partners and I honk lalight looks more like a bussing partner than umbrage.
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Oh hell yea read umbrage’s opening half of this game he’s like here a non partner post with lalight, here’s one with joth, ow let me go ahead and strongly defend and early case amidst pressure on Dylan.
I never get to do this so vote: joth
Let’s go!
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Well no one can say I didn't try. I argued my best, but you all chose to lynch me anyway.
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and you chose correctly! Good job town, good luck partner, thank you everyone for making my triumphant return to mafia a real good time.
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Awesome, lalight if you are town please reread me and some of my other scum games. If you are town we are definitely going to be in the end of the game together and will need to not lynch each other, I will be doing the same.
Also remember everyone tommorow is a no lynch pending we don’t wake up to a blocked night kill or swan still in the game.
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I'm sure Space will be by sometime soon, so twilight for now. I'll keep checking back and will end the day at 4 pm FT if they haven't.
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Final Day 4 Vote Count
jotheonah (4): UmbrageOfSnow, LaLight, DatSwan, mcmcsalot
mcmcsalot (1): jotheonah
Not voting (1): Jimmmmm
With 6 alive, it took 4 to lynch.
jotheonah was Blokovač Rolí of team Šmejdi - the Scum Roleblocker.
Day 5 start and night action deadline to be announced
THREAD LOCKED
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Vote Count 4.final
mcmcsalot (1): jotheonah
jotheonah (4): UmbrageOfSnow, LaLight, DatSwan, mcmcsalot
Not Voting (1): Jimmmmm
With 6 alive, it took 4 to lynch.
jotheonah was Blokovač Rolí of team Šmejdi (Scum Roleblocker).
Czech fact: Our little Vesnice is in the Czech Republic, a central European country of around 11 million people. The country has existed since 1st January 1993, when the former country of Czechoslovakia split in two, the other part becoming the country of Slovakia, a country directly to the east of the Czech Republic, with roughly half the population.
N4 starts now and ends at 9pm Czech time (3pm forum time) on Sunday 13th January. Night actions due 1 hour before this.
PPE EFHW :-) Sorry -- I'm still at work!
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Dobré večer! (Good Evening)
DatSwan was killed in the night. He was a Zednář of team Vesničané, a Mason.
Vote Count 5.0
Not voting (4): LaLight, mcmcsalot, Jimmmmm, UmbrageOfSnow
With 4 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.
D5 starts now and ends on Sunday 20th January at 22.00 Czech time (4pm forum time).
Thread Unlocked.
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vote: no lynch
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Vote: No Lynch
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Vote: No Lynch
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Vote Count 5.final
No Lynch (3): LaLight, UmbrageOfSnow, Jimmmmm
Not Voting (1): mcmcsalot
With 4 alive, it took 3 to no-lynch.
N5 starts now and ends at 23.00pm Czech time (17.00pm forum time) on Monday 14th January. Night actions are due 1 hour before this.
Thread Locked
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Dobré večer! (Good Evening)
mcmcsalot was killed in the night. He was a prostý vesničan of team Vesničané, a vanilla townie.
Czech fact: Czech and Slovak are very similar languages -- practically two different dialects. However, while the Slovak names for months (http://"http://www.slovak.com/language/calendar/months/months.html") are pretty instantly recognisable to an English speaker, the same cannot generally be said of the Czech names for months (http://"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czech_months").
Vote Count 6.0
Not voting (3): LaLight, Jimmmmm, UmbrageOfSnow
With 3 alive, it takes 2 to lynch.
D6 starts now and ends on Monday 21st January at 22.00 Czech time (4pm forum time).
Thread Unlocked.
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UoS, what do you think of LaLight?
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oh i missed the start of the day
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oh
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Ok let's try to see the pattern. I will look at the interactions of living people and known scums by vote counts.
Vote Count 1.1
ashersky (1): Jimmmmm
mcmcsalot (1): LaLight
Jimmmmm (2): faust, jotheonah
jotheonah (1): silverspawn
silverspawn (2): UmbrageOfSnow, Robz888
Robz888 (1): Galzria
Not Voting (4): mcmcsalot, DatSwan, ashersky, Dylan32
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
D1 ends at 11am Czech time (5am Forum Time) on Thursday 20th December.
Joth voted for Jimmmmm. Between 1.1 and 1.2 joth never moved but told that Dylan and DatSwan are scummy. Maybe an early busm given that he wanted to vote for Dylan as well.
Vote Count 1.2
ashersky (1): Jimmmmm
mcmcsalot (1): LaLight
jotheonah (1): silverspawn
Jimmmmm (1): jotheonah
Robz888 (1): Galzria
silverspawn (1): Robz888
DatSwan (2): mcmcsalot, Dylan32
faust (1): ashersky
Dylan32 (2): faust, UmbrageOfSnow
Not Voting (1): DatSwan
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
D1 ends at 11am Czech time (5am Forum Time) on Thursday 20th December.
Also at 1.2 UoS voted for Dylan for no reason at that point. After that UoS will start his crusade.
Vote Count 1.3
ashersky (1): Jimmmmm
mcmcsalot (1): LaLight
Robz888 (1): Galzria
DatSwan (3): mcmcsalot, Dylan32, jotheonah
faust (1): ashersky
Dylan32 (4): faust, UmbrageOfSnow, silverspawn, Robz888
Not Voting (1): DatSwan
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
D1 ends at 11am Czech time (5am Forum Time) on Thursday 20th December.
joth moved from Jimmmmm to DatSwan, wagon on Dylan grows.
Vote Count 1.4
ashersky (1): Jimmmmm
mcmcsalot (2): Lalight, silverspawn
Robz888 (1): Galzria
DatSwan (2): Dylan32, jotheonah
Dylan32 (3): faust, UmbrageOfSnow, Robz888
silverspawn (2): ashersky, mcmcsalot
Not Voting (1): DatSwan
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
D1 ends at 11am Czech time (5am Forum Time) on Thursday 20th December.
Notably Dylan and Joth are on DatSwan both. Jimmmmm never moves, UoS also is still on Dylan.
Vote Count 1.5
ashersky (1): Jimmmmm
mcmcsalot (2): Lalight, faust
Robz888 (1): Galzria
DatSwan (1): Dylan32
Dylan32 (1): UmbrageOfSnow
silverspawn (4): ashersky, mcmcsalot, jotheonah, Robz888
Jimmmmm (1): silverspawn
Not Voting (1): DatSwan
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
D1 ends at 11am Czech time (5am Forum Time) on Thursday 20th December.
Galzria has been prodded
UoS stays on Jimmmmm, this is quite a convenient position to hold. Others didn't change.
Vote Count 1.6
mcmcsalot (1): Lalight
DatSwan (1): Dylan32
Dylan32 (2): UmbrageOfSnow, Jimmmmm
silverspawn (3): ashersky, mcmcsalot, Robz888
Jimmmmm (4): silverspawn, DatSwan, Galzria, jotheonah
Galzria (1): faust
Not Voting (0):
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
D1 ends at 11am Czech time (5am Forum Time) on Thursday 20th December. That's in ~17 hours.
Jimmmmm moves onto Dylan without explanation, 17 hours before the deadline. WIFOM?
Vote Count 1.7
DatSwan (4): Dylan32, Galzria, jotheonah, Robz888
Dylan32 (2): UmbrageOfSnow, Jimmmmm
silverspawn (2): ashersky, mcmcsalot
mcmcsalot (1): LaLight
Jimmmmm (1): silverspawn
Galzria (2): faust, DatSwan
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
D1 ends at 11am Czech time (5am Forum Time) on Thursday 20th December. That's in a little under 13.5 hours.
Everything stays the same, Dylan and Joth are still on the same wagon.
Vote Count 1.8
DatSwan (4): Dylan32, jotheonah, UmbrageOfSnow, mcmcsalot
silverspawn (1): ashersky
mcmcsalot (1): LaLight
Jimmmmm (3): silverspawn, Galzria, Robz888
Galzria (3): faust, DatSwan, Jimmmmm
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
D1 ends at 11am Czech time (5am Forum Time) on Thursday 20th December. That's in ~9.5 hours.
9,5 hrs before the deadline, Dylan's wagon disappeared. Jimmmmm joined Galzria's, UoS – DatSwan's. I doubt UoS would join the wagon with Dylan and Joth on it.
Vote Count 1.9
silverspawn (1): ashersky
mcmcsalot (1): LaLight
Jimmmmm (5): silverspawn, Galzria, Robz888, Dylan, jotheonah
Galzria (4): faust, DatSwan, Jimmmmm, UmbrageofSnow
Not voting (1): mcmsalot
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
D1 ends at 11am Czech time (5am Forum Time) on Thursday 20th December. That's in ~7 hours. FYI, his probably the last vc until 4 a.m.
7 hrs before. Both Jimmmmm and UoS are on Galzria, both Dylan and Joth moved to Jimmmmm.
Vote Count 1.10
silverspawn (1): ashersky
Jimmmmm (6): silverspawn, Galzria, Robz888, Dylan32, jotheonah, LaLight
Galzria (5): faust, DatSwan, Jimmmmm, UmbrageOfSnow, mcmcsalot
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
D1 ends in ~17 minutes.
17 minutes.
Jimmmmm and UoS still on Galzria, I moved to Jimmmmm. Note that if you think I am scum, I would join the wagon with both Dylan and Joth which is a dumb thing to do if you're scum. I think we should've lynched Jimmmmm then, but whatever.
Vote Count 1.final
silverspawn (1): ashersky
Galzria (7): faust, DatSwan, Jimmmmm, UmbrageOfSnow, mcmcsalot, silverspawn, jotheonah
Jimmmmm (4): Galzria, Robz888, Dylan32, LaLight
With 12 alive, it tool 7 to lynch.
Finally Joth moved to Galz, Dylan stayed. Weird, given that they both were on the same wagon all the Day 1. But given that one of you is scum, that's logical: Dylan didn't want to be on the same wagon as his partners.
This concludes D1, please don't vote until I look at all of them
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Vote Count 2.1
mcmcsalot (1): LaLight
silverspawn (1): faust
DatSwan (1): jotheonah
UmbrageOfSnow (1): DatSwan
Not Voting (6): Robz888, mcmcsalot, Jimmmmm, UmbrageOfSnow, Dylan32, silverspawn
With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
D2 ends on Saturday 29th December at 7pm Czech time (1pm forum time).
Nothing really notable here.
Then this happened:
Given that Jimmmmm never lynched both as soon as I can see
I'm not entirely sure what you mean, but I would have and still would lynch Dylan.
Vote: Dylan
And this last bunch of posts from LaLight seems pretty town to me, a lot of weird assumed guilt looking for reasons and bizarre logical leaps, I'm too busy to check but that's basically what he does as town when reevaluating things isn't it?
Very little time today and tomorrow, should be able to post at some point tomorrow though so not VLA.
Veselé Vánoce (Merry Christmas!)
Vote Count 2.2
mcmcsalot (1): LaLight
silverspawn (1): faust
UmbrageOfSnow (1): DatSwan
Dylan32 (2): Jimmmmm, UmbrageOfSnow
Not Voting (5): Robz888, mcmcsalot, Dylan32, silverspawn, jotheonah
With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
D2 ends on Saturday 29th December at 7pm Czech time (1pm forum time).
This is again a safe place for both of you, trying to open a wagon on Dylan. I wonder what would happen if Dylan would rise up to L-1. But that didn't happen.
Then this:
I don't have much time tonight but I reread Dylan and my reasons for voting for him are really only from very early in the game. I will Unvote for now and hopefully have time to look at joth tomorrow.
and as far as I see, Jimmmmm never answered this one:
I don't have much time tonight but I reread Dylan and my reasons for voting for him are really only from very early in the game. I will Unvote for now and hopefully have time to look at joth tomorrow.
So why did you revote him at the start of today then?
So at 2.3 we're here:
Vote Count 2.3
silverspawn (2): faust, LaLight
UmbrageOfSnow (1): DatSwan
Dylan32 (1): UmbrageOfSnow
Not Voting (6): Robz888, mcmcsalot, Dylan32, silverspawn, jotheonah, Jimmmmm
With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
D2 ends on Saturday 29th December at 7pm Czech time (1pm forum time).
The deadline is less than 25 hours from now.
Vote Count 2.4
UmbrageOfSnow (3): DatSwan, jotheonah, Robz888
Dylan32 (1): UmbrageOfSnow
silverspawn (1): LaLight
Robz888 (1): faust
Not Voting (4): mcmcsalot, Dylan32, silverspawn, Jimmmmm
D2 ends at 23:59 Czech time (5.59pm Forum Time) on Sunday 30th December. This is in just over 32 hours' time.
Joth voted for UoS, UoS stays on Dylan.
Vote Count 2.5
UmbrageOfSnow (3): DatSwan, Robz888, Dylan32
Robz888 (4): faust, UmbrageOfSnow, jotheonah, LaLight
jotheonah (3): silverspawn, Jimmmmm, mcmcsalot
Not Voting (0)
With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. D2 ends at 23:59 Czech time (5.59pm Forum Time) on Sunday 30th December. This is in just under 6.5 hours' time.
I'm going back and forth a bit on Dylan. Otherwise I agree with most of what silver says.
Vote: joth
Dylan voted for UoS, joth, UoS and me for Robz, Jimmmmm for joth with "Going back and forth on Dylan". In the end
Vote Count 2.final
UmbrageOfSnow (1): DatSwan
Robz888 (6): faust, UmbrageOfSnow, jotheonah, LaLight, silverspawn, Dylan32
jotheonah (2): Jimmmmm, mcmcsalot
faust (1): Robz888
With 10 alive, it tooks 6 to lynch.
Robz was a prostý vesničan of team Vesničané.
Czech fact: the word for the colour green is zelený, or zelená (or a bunch of other possible endings depending on grammatical gender, case and number).
N2 starts now and ends at 23.59 Czech time on Monday 1st January 2019. Action deadline is 1 hour before that.
Me, UoS, Dylan and Joth were all on the same wagon.
This concludes D2
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In the start of D3 Dyan claimed and there was an immediate reaction from Jimmmmm:
Ok, it may not be time for a massclaim, but it's time for me to claim.
I'm the UB. Inherited Galz's cop shot, checked Jimmmmm last night: guilty.
Vote: Jimmmmm
This is why I was so skeptical of the mason claim until I realized that faust actually was able to explain the EoD1 consistently with the claim.
This is a lie.
Vote: Dylan
Vote Count 3.1
Jimmmmm (1): Dylan32
Dylan32 (2): Jimmmmm, faust
No Lynch (1): LaLight
Not Voting (4): mcmcsalot, DatSwan, UmbrageOfSnow, jotheonah
With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.
D3 ends on Tuesday 8th January at 23.59 Czech time (17.59 forum time).
I thought about no lynching being the best option then, nothing else interesting in this VC
Vote Count 3.final
Jimmmmm (1): Dylan32
Dylan32 (5): Jimmmmm, faust, DatSwan, UmbrageOfSnow, jotheonah
No Lynch (1): LaLight
Not Voting (1): mcmcsalot
With 8 alive, it took 5 to lynch.
Dylan was a Kmotr of team Šmejdi (Scum Godfather).
Czech phrase almost verbatim from one of today's Duolingo lessons: "Umřel před pěti minutami" -> "He died five minutes ago".
N3 starts now and ends at 23.00 Czech time (5pm forum time) on Sunday 6th January 2019. Action deadline is 1 hour before that.
And then the final one. Joth hammered, Jimmmmm started the wagon.
At this point I am pretty sure it's Jimmmmm but will try to get the bias away
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Vote Count 4.1
jotheonah (2): DatSwan, UmbrageOfSnow
mcmcsalot (1): jotheonah
Not voting (3): LaLight, mcmcsalot, Jimmmmm
With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.
D4 ends on Sunday 13th January at 23.00 Czech time (5pm forum time).
Wagon on Joth started.
And ended:
Final Day 4 Vote Count
jotheonah (4): UmbrageOfSnow, LaLight, DatSwan, mcmcsalot
mcmcsalot (1): jotheonah
Not voting (1): Jimmmmm
With 6 alive, it took 4 to lynch.
jotheonah was Blokovač Rolí of team Šmejdi - the Scum Roleblocker.
Day 5 start and night action deadline to be announced
THREAD LOCKED
Jimmmmm doesn't vote but expresses that he wants to hammer.
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all in all, looking especially at D2, I am pretty set on Jimmmmm being scum. Mad propz to UoS if you are one.
vote: Jimmmmm
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all in all, looking especially at D2, I am pretty set on Jimmmmm being scum. Mad propz to UoS if you are one.
vote: Jimmmmm
Well that was a quick LyLo vote.
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I'm not at all sure from Today's posts what you're basing your vote on.
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If it's based on D2, you think I'm scum for voting for one scum, then changing to vote for another?
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If it's based on D2, you think I'm scum for voting for one scum, then changing to vote for another?
Actually, yes.
Also all your actions make more sense if you're scum than UoS' ones. And also I wouldn't put it past you to come up with a Dylan's sacrifice plan, I know you're an awesome scum player
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all in all, looking especially at D2, I am pretty set on Jimmmmm being scum. Mad propz to UoS if you are one.
vote: Jimmmmm
Well that was a quick LyLo vote.
I want to stick to my guns.
I have no basic idea how mcmc's kill would be profitable to scum. The only possible explanation is that you are one. If UoS would be one, he would kill you and let me and mcmc vote for each other to win. You, on the other hand, after dealing with Dylan came up townie on a first level and might've had a plan so you and UoS who were townreading each other would just simply mislynch me and game over you're MVP. I am still afraid that's what would happen
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all in all, looking especially at D2, I am pretty set on Jimmmmm being scum. Mad propz to UoS if you are one.
vote: Jimmmmm
Well that was a quick LyLo vote.
I want to stick to my guns.
I have no basic idea how mcmc's kill would be profitable to scum. The only possible explanation is that you are one. If UoS would be one, he would kill you and let me and mcmc vote for each other to win. You, on the other hand, after dealing with Dylan came up townie on a first level and might've had a plan so you and UoS who were townreading each other would just simply mislynch me and game over you're MVP. I am still afraid that's what would happen
Honestly I thought it was likely that UoS killed mcmc because I had labelled you as a likely third scum.
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So... there's no way you'll unvote and give us a chance at a proper Day before UoS shows up?
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unvote
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AMA
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all in all, looking especially at D2, I am pretty set on Jimmmmm being scum. Mad propz to UoS if you are one.
vote: Jimmmmm
Well that was a quick LyLo vote.
I want to stick to my guns.
I have no basic idea how mcmc's kill would be profitable to scum. The only possible explanation is that you are one. If UoS would be one, he would kill you and let me and mcmc vote for each other to win. You, on the other hand, after dealing with Dylan came up townie on a first level and might've had a plan so you and UoS who were townreading each other would just simply mislynch me and game over you're MVP. I am still afraid that's what would happen
Honestly I thought it was likely that UoS killed mcmc because I had labelled you as a likely third scum.
I don't understand your reasoning, can you elaborate?
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ah sorry, got it
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why did you label me as a third scum by the way? I don't think I ever saw a reasoning for it
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all in all, looking especially at D2, I am pretty set on Jimmmmm being scum. Mad propz to UoS if you are one.
vote: Jimmmmm
Well that was a quick LyLo vote.
I want to stick to my guns.
I have no basic idea how mcmc's kill would be profitable to scum. The only possible explanation is that you are one. If UoS would be one, he would kill you and let me and mcmc vote for each other to win. You, on the other hand, after dealing with Dylan came up townie on a first level and might've had a plan so you and UoS who were townreading each other would just simply mislynch me and game over you're MVP. I am still afraid that's what would happen
Honestly I thought it was likely that UoS killed mcmc because I had labelled you as a likely third scum.
I don't understand your reasoning, can you elaborate?
When asked for my most likely scum team (after Dylan's claim, but I think before his lynch), I said Dylan and joth, and named you as a likely third. I was expecting to be killed last Night, and my first instinct for the reason behind the mcmc kill is that UoS thought I would be likely to vote for you.
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why did you label me as a third scum by the way? I don't think I ever saw a reasoning for it
To be perfectly honest, I can't remember. I was planning to re-read you both from scratch Today before voting. Hang on, I'll have a look.
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Also, my first post Today was hoping to bait UoS into being too eager to vote for you.
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Also, my first post Today was hoping to bait UoS into being too eager to vote for you.
so you could win, right?
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Also, my first post Today was hoping to bait UoS into being too eager to vote for you.
so you could win, right?
To try to test my theory about the mcmc kill.
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the more I think that you are trying to divert my attention from you the more I think you are scum, actually. But I will wait just in case.
given that you really was sure I am a third scum, mcmc's kill is reasonable from UoS as well, But he still has the whole game of being townie. But ok, I'll wait.
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I think it's really stupid for scum to try to set up faust and Swan and it works for us in a really good way, PoE is strong with this one. Also I thought silver was scum pretty probably, so I like the kill. I have a couple more days of low activity, hope I'll be more active after, sorry
I think naming you as third was for this post, but it was more instinct than anything. I think scum does a fair bit of trying to appear as Town trying to analyse scum kills, moreso than Town spends time analysing kills. "I thought silver was scum pretty probably, so I like the kill" particularly seems more like the former than the latter.
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the more I think that you are trying to divert my attention from you the more I think you are scum, actually. But I will wait just in case.
How am I trying to divert attention from me, and why is that scummy? Self preservation at LyLo is not a scum tell.
given that you really was sure I am a third scum, mcmc's kill is reasonable from UoS as well, But he still has the whole game of being townie. But ok, I'll wait.
I definitely wasn't sure you're the third scum.
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the more I think that you are trying to divert my attention from you the more I think you are scum, actually. But I will wait just in case.
How am I trying to divert attention from me, and why is that scummy? Self preservation at LyLo is not a scum tell.
given that you really was sure I am a third scum, mcmc's kill is reasonable from UoS as well, But he still has the whole game of being townie. But ok, I'll wait.
I definitely wasn't sure you're the third scum.
Yeah, sorry, not sure, but you thought that and I think that's one of the explanations for the kill, that's what I meant
I just feel like you're decepting me into thinking UoS is scum. I don't say self-preservation is a scumtell, it's just how I feel
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talking about vote counts, I noticed UoS, Joth and Dylan being on the same wagon a fair amount of times, I don't think scumteam would do something that reckless. Even taking wifom into account
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could you say how often do you bus your scum partners?
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I just feel like you're decepting me into thinking UoS is scum. I don't say self-preservation is a scumtell, it's just how I feel
How? How have I responded differently than I would as Town worried that UoS will swoop in and hammer?
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well, you seem less nervous and more calculating than I would expect from town who thinks they're going to lose just here and now
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like, after my vote, you did 5 posts only in the last one asking calmly to unvote.
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5 one-sentence posts is more calculating than nervous?
I didn't really ask you to unvote. Given how early in the Day you voted, I kind of assumed you wouldn't. I started making a post voting for you, but was too worried that the game was over as soon as UoS arrived, so I double checked whether you were firm on your vote.
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You know how I feel about "that's too crazy for scum to do" arguments coming from a suspect, but man. Scum had us at a flawless MyLo. If I'm scum then Dylan's claim completely guaranteed that the next lynch would be on scum. Joth and I then rallied against each other, basically ensuring that the next lynch would be on scum.
I mean, there's bussing and there's self-destruction. By voting for me you are arguing that I threw away the chance to win the game then and there TWICE just for the chance to win at the very last opportunity.
I understand the irony of this post if I was scum (I'm not!). But just understand what you're arguing for if you vote for me. How many scum teams in the history of forum Mafia do you think have been on the cusp of a flawless victory but decided "Let's get all of us but one killed so that last one gets lots of Town cred!"
That would be crazy.
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At that point Joth and Dylan were practically universally scumread, so yeah, i see the irony of doing this if you’re scum. Scums didn’t have us then, we had two unfortunate mislynches, but we had masons both alive, some other people being townread (say, UoS) so well...
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I want to wait till UoS comes
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Hi guys, saw the kill, haven't read anything in between then and now, just checking in.
That's a weird enough kill it warrants a complete reread, which I absolutely do not have time for today.
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Okay, I've read everything at a skim, I stand by my wanting to reread the whole game tomorrow.
My gut right now says Jimmm but we have plenty of time and I have no intention of voting until I reread it all. Either tomorrow or the next day, and frankly I need to reread that blitz game where Jimmm was scum too.
But I feel like either scum should have either killed me or killed Jimmm/LaLight there and hoped I vote momsalon.
My gut says that weird kill is more likely to come from Jimmm, it's someone worried about town me and town mcmc both left alive in LYLO but wanting to kill mcmc more than me.
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And as long as we're in what-I'd-have-done-as-scum territory, obviously scum!me should have killed Jimmm.
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That's a weird enough kill it warrants a complete reread, which I absolutely do not have time for today.
Who were you expecting to be killed?
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Never mind.
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My gut right now says Jimmm
Why?
I'm actually amazed that both of you have indicated me as their lynch of choice. Which means one of you legitimately thinks the scum team was Dylan/joth/me, and the other thinks I'm their best mislynch opportunity.
The scum me narrative is such an epic conspiracy theory. The thing about scum lynches is that they are very difficult. Scum will do everything they can to avoid them. There is no way a Dylan/joth/me team gives the Town two correct lynches on a silver platter. It just doesn't happen. Dylan didn't claim a Cop result on me to ensure scum gets lynched for Towncred, he did it to try to win the game for scum on that Day. joth didn't agree with him and push for my lynch and vice versa to ensure scum gets lynched for Towncred, he did it to try to win the game for scum on that Day. There is no plausible amount of Towncred that would be worth giving up 2/3 of the team for.
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frankly I need to reread that blitz game where Jimmm was scum too.
My most favorite scum!Jimmmmm game is RMM7, absolutely spectacular. Not sure though, how good of an example this one is
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My gut right now says Jimmm
Why?
I'm actually amazed that both of you have indicated me as their lynch of choice. Which means one of you legitimately thinks the scum team was Dylan/joth/me, and the other thinks I'm their best mislynch opportunity.
The scum me narrative is such an epic conspiracy theory. The thing about scum lynches is that they are very difficult. Scum will do everything they can to avoid them. There is no way a Dylan/joth/me team gives the Town two correct lynches on a silver platter. It just doesn't happen. Dylan didn't claim a Cop result on me to ensure scum gets lynched for Towncred, he did it to try to win the game for scum on that Day. joth didn't agree with him and push for my lynch and vice versa to ensure scum gets lynched for Towncred, he did it to try to win the game for scum on that Day. There is no plausible amount of Towncred that would be worth giving up 2/3 of the team for.
I am thinking about it. I mean winning is a goal, not staying alive as long as you can, so this plan works in a case you describing.
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frankly I need to reread that blitz game where Jimmm was scum too.
My most favorite scum!Jimmmmm game is RMM7, absolutely spectacular. Not sure though, how good of an example this one is
LOTR, right? The two LOTR games were probably my favourite ever.
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frankly I need to reread that blitz game where Jimmm was scum too.
My most favorite scum!Jimmmmm game is RMM7, absolutely spectacular. Not sure though, how good of an example this one is
LOTR, right? The two LOTR games were probably my favourite ever.
yeah. The only ones I reread more than once
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My gut right now says Jimmm
Why?
I'm actually amazed that both of you have indicated me as their lynch of choice. Which means one of you legitimately thinks the scum team was Dylan/joth/me, and the other thinks I'm their best mislynch opportunity.
The scum me narrative is such an epic conspiracy theory. The thing about scum lynches is that they are very difficult. Scum will do everything they can to avoid them. There is no way a Dylan/joth/me team gives the Town two correct lynches on a silver platter. It just doesn't happen. Dylan didn't claim a Cop result on me to ensure scum gets lynched for Towncred, he did it to try to win the game for scum on that Day. joth didn't agree with him and push for my lynch and vice versa to ensure scum gets lynched for Towncred, he did it to try to win the game for scum on that Day. There is no plausible amount of Towncred that would be worth giving up 2/3 of the team for.
I am thinking about it. I mean winning is a goal, not staying alive as long as you can, so this plan works in a case you describing.
I'm having trouble parsing the last part of your sentence. Regardless, scum is in a heck of a lot worse position now than they were before Dylan claimed. If I'm scum then that change in position was orchestrated by scum to a very large and very unnecessary degree. Scum just doesn't throw that hard.
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My gut right now says Jimmm
Why?
I'm actually amazed that both of you have indicated me as their lynch of choice. Which means one of you legitimately thinks the scum team was Dylan/joth/me, and the other thinks I'm their best mislynch opportunity.
The scum me narrative is such an epic conspiracy theory. The thing about scum lynches is that they are very difficult. Scum will do everything they can to avoid them. There is no way a Dylan/joth/me team gives the Town two correct lynches on a silver platter. It just doesn't happen. Dylan didn't claim a Cop result on me to ensure scum gets lynched for Towncred, he did it to try to win the game for scum on that Day. joth didn't agree with him and push for my lynch and vice versa to ensure scum gets lynched for Towncred, he did it to try to win the game for scum on that Day. There is no plausible amount of Towncred that would be worth giving up 2/3 of the team for.
I am thinking about it. I mean winning is a goal, not staying alive as long as you can, so this plan works in a case you describing.
I'm having trouble parsing the last part of your sentence. Regardless, scum is in a heck of a lot worse position now than they were before Dylan claimed. If I'm scum then that change in position was orchestrated by scum to a very large and very unnecessary degree. Scum just doesn't throw that hard.
This makes sense and it may be WIFOM as well.
Why would UoS kill mcmc?
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This makes sense and it may be WIFOM as well.
The "WIFOM" argument would be that we (Dylan, joth and myself) thought that I would get enough Towncred that it would be worth giving up two of our own players, which is a reeeeally big stretch.
Why would UoS kill mcmc?
The only reason I can think of is because I listed you as the third scum.
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ok. Anyway I am planning on rereading from different PoV and wait till UoS rereads full game as well
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Regarding Dylan's claim, the whole scum motivation for it, which faust was getting at back when he was alive I think, is Dylan is getting heat, correctly directs us to lynch scum!Jimmmmmmm, and then coasts on the towncred through LYLO. This plan counts more on the next day LYLO and not Joth getting lynched, which happens because we didn't believe Dylan's claim.
Also honestly both Dylan AND Joth were super-likely lynches on the days they were lynched, scum isn't unlikely to bus in that environment, basically everyone other than mcmc wanted to lynch Joth as I remember it.
I don't like how hard Jimmmmm is pushing this narrative where he deserves so much towncred because those scum lynches were going to be so hard to get to happen, doesn't make that much sense and reads very scummy to me. Scum didn't give up 2/3 of their team for towncred, Joth pretty clearly fumbled his bus on Dylan and then came across super scummy Yesterday after several days of a bunch of people finding him suspicious and not lynching him.
Also also, shouldn't Jimmmmm be pushing hard for scum!LaLight if he thinks he deserves so much credit for being on-wagon?
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Anyway, I'm going to start a reread now, looking for evidence of scum LaLight and town Jimmm and see how much doubt I have when I try to prove the opposite.
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So this is a very interesting section of the game in retrospect:
Nice to meet you joth! I've read all the games on this forum, so I know you, but you don't know me. glad to have you back!
How do you know that joth didn't also read all games on this forum?
Technically I haven't said that. Just that he doesn't know me
But you implied that your having read his games makes it so that you know him, so does it not follow that him hypothetically having read all of your games would make him know you?
Here's what I'm more interested. LaLight, if you've read all the games, you should be a very good scum hunter. Who's playing off-meta so far?
Compare to
vote: josh for asking this question too early. Smells like scared scum.
what... would scum!me be scared of at this point? Robz's obvious joke vote?
I don't think it's ever too early to start scumhunting and asking people for reads. RVS is boring.
Also, I think RVS is over? So far we have:
* ashersky's (I assume not totally serious) suggestion that Lalight and I are on a scum team together
* faust's vote on ashersky for FoSing us and not voting for us
* Jimmmmmm's vote on ashersky because he likes wagons
* your (silverspawn's) unexplained jumping on the ashersky wagon
* faust's unexplained vote for Jimmmmmm
* my joke vote for Robz
* Robz's joke (?) vote for me
* your (silverspawn's) vote for me for asking Lalight for a read before doing any scumhunting myself
That's a lot of real action, even ignoring some jokey votes!
The things on that list I find scummy so far:
- Jimmmm's ashersky vote
- silverspawn's ashersky vote
I actually don't mind silverspawn's vote for me, even though it's wrong and dumb. It's based on something, whereas Jimmmm's vote on ashersky is mindless wagonning is not. So I think I'll join faust in
vote: Jimmmmm
I'd argue that liking early wagons is indeed pro-town and not based-on-nothing or scum-indicative.
Can you (and Jimmmm I guess) explain this perspective?
I see Jimmm's action there (his only action in the game so far) and I see (potentially) scum wanting to look like they're participating without actually contributing or drawing too much attention, with the added bonus of possibly getting a lynch going ASAP. Getting on a wagon early is good for scum, since the FoS tends to fall on the late joiners and the hammerer.
But I'd love to hear the "wagons are protown" argument.
Also, I apologize if I'm rehashing old settled issues here. It's been a long time and I've probably forgotten a lot.
An RVS vote can be based on a joke, it can be based on a very flimsy case, or, apparently, it can be based on the idea that all wagons are good, which I still don't completely get, but it's pretty clear to me that it's a popular and uncontroversial opinion, so I guess I have to conclude it's not inherently scummy (unless Jim, silver, and Umbradge are all scum together). Still I'm leaving my vote where it is until Jimmmmm shows up and responds to this whole conversation.
Anyway, despite the name, I don't think very many RVS votes are truly random.
Sorry for the wallpost that's mostly for my own reference.
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To get the game going. But if you talk about it it ruins it.
See, this makes no sense to me. If a wagon is to be any use at all, it's so that it can be analyzed. To analyze a wagon usefully, you have to know who got on it for what reasons, so you can determine who's scum. So even accepting that early wagons are useful, I would think that a wagon that you don't discuss -- or that discussion would "ruin" -- would completely negate that usefulness.
Also, I should officially say now that the game is going: I will be V/LA from December 20th to December 29th, on my honeymoon in Germany. There may be a few times I can check in, but the priority has to be quality time with the wife! Hopefully, based on the schedule, some portion of that time will be night, which should mitigate the impact.
Maybe if you hear my reasoning, you'll change your mind.
LaLight is said to have read every scum game. This is very unusual. joth has been absent for a while and is now coming back. It's easy to see how he could be nervous about someone knowing his meta, and I think "come on, tell me about what makes me scummy" is a very plausible thing for a scum player to do. On the other hand, the town motivation makes less sense, because there's no way LaLight has any solid read on anyone so far.
I didn't ask him for solid reads. I asked him if anyone was playing off-meta so far. Which I think is a reasonable thing to ask someone who has read all the games. I absolutely think people can conform to or deviate from their meta in just a few posts. To give a completely hypothetical example, suppose faust's town meta was that he normally wrote long paragraphs explaining each vote. His vote for Jimmmmm with no explanation would then be off-meta.
Speaking of LaLight, they never really answered that question. And even if there wasn't enough info to answer it then, I suspect there is enough to answer it now.
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The thing about scum lynches is that they are very difficult. Scum will do everything they can to avoid them. There is no way a Dylan/joth/me team gives the Town two correct lynches on a silver platter.
Jimmm wasn't on Joth, and was the first vote on Dylan after Dylan claimed a cop guilty on him, it's not like he could unvote there. So the only useful argument is that scum!Joth wouldn't bus Dylan, and clearly that happened (and mcmc would have hammered if Joth didn't.)
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This is the biggest thing making me hesitate on Jimmm
Vote Count 1.7
DatSwan (4): Dylan32, Galzria, jotheonah, Robz888
Dylan32 (2): UmbrageOfSnow, Jimmmmm
silverspawn (2): ashersky, mcmcsalot
mcmcsalot (1): LaLight
Jimmmmm (1): silverspawn
Galzria (2): faust, DatSwan
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
D1 ends at 11am Czech time (5am Forum Time) on Thursday 20th December. That's in a little under 13.5 hours.
The Jimmmmm lynch seems eminently viable. Maybe too viable.
The people that have voted Jimmm, and in order are:
Faust (57)
Joth (61)
Joth (224) (intent at 215, bad formatting)
Silver (243)
Swan (275)
Robz (313)
And then I just said that I would to get a lynch.
I believe the highest his wagon has been is 3.
So that's six players. Assuming they're all still feeling it, we would need to convince one of UoS, LaLight, Dylan, mcmc, and ashersky to go along.
So yeah. Super doable.
I was going to say that this should worry us because easy lynches are town lynches, but I talked myself out of it. I'm in. And I'm about to drop off availability-wise so I'll move my vote now.
vote: Jimmmmm
I'll move back to vote: DatSwan for a few more hours, Galz. For you. I really need to go now for irl stuff, but I'll probably check back in around 7 or 8 pm forum time. Hopefully ... things of some kind will happen.
Just reread Jimmmmm. I could move, and would like that more than some of the other options that have been mentioned, but would rather stay on DatSwan.
I'll be off and on this evening, but won't be on at all in the morning.
ppe 1
And after Swan's claim both Dylan and Joth move to Jimmmm
No lynch would be horrible and I have to leave now until deadline. My problem with the case on jimm is he’s playing like jimm plays. Ugh there is no non jimm or galz thing that’s happening. Im going to vote: galz so him and jimm are at l-2 and I trust people to get one through.
Proposition for you: vote for Jimmmmm instead. Why get two people to L-2 when you could get one person to L-1? Especially after I put all that work into that lovely case for you.
But the real case is just ... reread him. There's almost no useful contributions, but a lot of votes and just enough fluff and theory talk to not be a lurker. I feel like it's a textbook execution of a particular way of playing scum.
This is not a case. I can just easily say it's a textbook execution of a particular way of playing Town.
If you want to lynch me I probably won't fight too hard against it. I'm a fine Day 1 lynch - not a great "catch scum" lynch but a fine "progress the game" lynch. Much better than lynching Swan or forcing the partner to claim.
But LaLight also gets on Jimmm when he comes back, so either 2 scum are bussing another or all 3 scum are on the same town wagon
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Vote Count 1.10
silverspawn (1): ashersky
Jimmmmm (6): silverspawn, Galzria, Robz888, Dylan32, jotheonah, LaLight
Galzria (5): faust, DatSwan, Jimmmmm, UmbrageOfSnow, mcmcsalot
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
D1 ends in ~17 minutes.
... I can't believe this is still happening.
Is there any situation where DatSwan is this stubborn unless he's scum that doesn't want to bus? That's the main thing keeping me from switching to get a lynch through. (Sorry Galz)
I mean, if DatSwan and Jimmmmm ARE scum partners (with someone who's already asleep and on the Galz wagon) and Swan claimed Mason with the intention of going with the scumbuddy claims Mason partner in a pinch gambit, and the gambit went horribly wrong, it would look something like this? But then why wouldn't Jimmmmm have done his part and claimed other Mason ages ago?
PPE: He is sooooooo scum but vote: Galzria. NL is bad. If we ARE in a Jimmmmm and DatSwan are scumbuddies situation, we'll be able to sort it out tomorrow.
Reading how the day went after I hit the wall and went to bed, even when you ignore the fact Galz was actually the cop, the Jimmmmm wagon feels townier just by nature of the way it stalled out and noone would hammer. If any scum were on Galz or off either wagon, it was close enough to the deadline to where hammering for the sake of making sure a lynch went through would have been pretty easy and probably at least a few town points, because scum would have been totally ok with a no lynch. If Jimmmmm is actually scum, faust and Swan would be super scummy for stubbornly refusing to switch, even when there was no guarantee someone else was going to be coming online to actually get a lynch through. Swan had included Jimmmmm in his top 3 lynch choices behind Galz and along with Robz, but then the way he refuses to actually switch to Jimmmmm when the chips were down feels more like trying to protect a scum partner that you weren't planning on being the one that would co-claim masons with you later. Distance yourself to not be tied together by buddying while mason claiming the other partner, but then not wanting to actually hammer that partner.
I think I am settled on 99% believing DS and faust are Masons.
for some reasons I can't put my finger on Joth. He reads townie, but I don't know, can't feel him
(Before the LL quotes)
Sorry all. Should have time to post more soon.
Would lynch: Dylan, joth.
Would not lynch: Swan, faust, ss.
PPE: Nice OMGUS Jim.
PPE: Nice OMGUS Jim.
That's a bit silly.
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Scum decided to NK Ash rather than Swan, so they went into D2 with the plan of trying to get one of the Masons lynched.
Neither LL or Jim want to lynch Swan, so either way they decided to not tie themselves together in universally opposing the masons, but LL states that a lot more strongly. Does scum want to strongly defend the masons like LL does? I think Jimm's mason belief is the scummier one.
Is Joth more trying to discredit Jimm or more trying to distance? Dose scum!LL chainsaw defend Dylan like this?
I am null on Dylan, and I don't like the two votes on him. Let's sheep faust, vote: silverspawn
I still find this unvote weird:
I don't have much time tonight but I reread Dylan and my reasons for voting for him are really only from very early in the game. I will Unvote for now and hopefully have time to look at joth tomorrow.
I'm not doing a good job talking myself out of Jimm
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Okay, I'm stopping here for now, only going to have mobile access for a few hours (and not even my own).
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The thing about scum lynches is that they are very difficult. Scum will do everything they can to avoid them. There is no way a Dylan/joth/me team gives the Town two correct lynches on a silver platter.
Jimmm wasn't on Joth, and was the first vote on Dylan after Dylan claimed a cop guilty on him, it's not like he could unvote there. So the only useful argument is that scum!Joth wouldn't bus Dylan, and clearly that happened (and mcmc would have hammered if Joth didn't.)
I wasn't on joth because I wasn't sure about ending the Day so soon. I made it extremely clear that I thought he was scum:
Would lynch: Dylan, joth.
joth still seems the most likely partner. I'm picking LaLight as the third. No lynch is still probably best though.
Coming from the person who just got copped at scum, this is not particularly compelling.
I got copped as scum. You know this how?
Dylan, why didn't you use your 1-shot right away -- why wait until last night?
I think you know the answer - you decided to wait until mylo to try to finish the game off with this claim.
Question to Dylan and Jimmmmm: You know one scum. Can you try to figure out who you think their partners are? Rereads would be ideal.
Prereread joth seems obvious. LaLight a likely third. I should get some rereads done tomorrow.
2) DatSwan and faust are masons. Dylan is scum. In this case, we need to explain why scum didn't kill the masons and why they are risking a proactive cop claim when they are doing pretty well without one.
Again, we don't need to explain scum's behaviour at all. The fact that you're arguing this is the explanation. Do someone kind of crazy late enough in the game that you can likely get away with it => argue that it's so crazy that scum would never do it => win the game.
As to number one, the only thing that makes any sense is that they're doing this all to frame Swan and faust.
No, you're doing it to frame me. Obviously. One more mislynch is probably all you need, so this is how you're attempting to get it.
But that's almost as insane a scum play as claiming masons in the first place. Isn't it? Doesn't scum just kill the claimed mason right away night 1, instead of killing ashersky?
Not if you want to make this argument.
3) DatSwan and faust are scum, Dylan is their partner. This is a possibility we need to consider. The scum have been doing very well with their mason claim, and now need only one more mislynch to win the game. They also know that UB is a relatively safe fakeclaim. So they decide to try a hail mary. If it works, they win. If Dylan gets lynched, hey faust and Swan get to keep on being "IC"s into the end game.
This is false and a scumslip. If Swan, faust and Dylan are the scum team, then the real UB is still out there, and UB would be an entirely unsafe fakeclaim. But you know that UB is a relatively safe fakeclaim and so messed up your story here.
Final note, my gut here is to believe Dylan and not Jimmmm, although the tiny math chance gives me pause. Gut read, Jimmmmm is acting right now exactly like scum!Jimmmm from scenario 1 would act. He's acting like he had prepared for this possibility in advance. Look how quick he was with the math post.
I posted #754 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19249.msg781607#msg781607) when I saw Dylan's claim and #764 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19249.msg781618#msg781618) 32 minutes later. Plenty of time to grab some paper, come up with a figure of 97.3%, realise that 4 Ms were impossible, change it to 99%, and do my best to make the post clear and concise.
So if we're in scenario 1, for instance, that means mcmc, Umbrage, and Lalight need to show up soon and be active and we all need to agree to lynch Jimmmmm or a Mason claimant.
You'd like that wouldn't you?
PPE 6
What does that have to do with math? You didn't forget anything. You assumed that UB was a safe fakeclaim. What possible reason could you have for assuming that other than that "UB is a safe fakeclaim" was in your mind already?
Jimmm - who is your top skum pick?
joth
I don't really see a scenario in which I would agree to keep joth alive to the end. Primarily due to the way he responded to Dylan's claim. Scum obviously discussed the claim the night before and expected it to work.
I'm happy to just hammer if you want.
I'll let mcmc say what he wants to before hammering.
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Umbrage, did you use your RB shot?
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The thing about scum lynches is that they are very difficult. Scum will do everything they can to avoid them. There is no way a Dylan/joth/me team gives the Town two correct lynches on a silver platter.
Jimmm wasn't on Joth, and was the first vote on Dylan after Dylan claimed a cop guilty on him, it's not like he could unvote there. So the only useful argument is that scum!Joth wouldn't bus Dylan, and clearly that happened (and mcmc would have hammered if Joth didn't.)
I wasn't on joth because I wasn't sure about ending the Day so soon. I made it extremely clear that I thought he was scum:
So are you arguing that Joth's lynch wasn't on scum then?
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So are you arguing that Joth's lynch wasn't on scum then?
I'm not sure what you mean.
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I used my RB shot on momsalon back on N2
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Final Day 4 Vote Count
jotheonah (4): UmbrageOfSnow, LaLight, DatSwan, mcmcsalot
mcmcsalot (1): jotheonah
Not voting (1): Jimmmmm
With 6 alive, it took 4 to lynch.
jotheonah was Blokovač Rolí of team Šmejdi - the Scum Roleblocker.
Day 5 start and night action deadline to be announced
THREAD LOCKED
Everyone but you and Joth was on the Joth lynch, so if scum don't just hand out scum lynches like that than Joth must not have been scum.
(This is impossible, I am being facetious to make a point.)
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I mean, are you looking only at vote counts and not at the rest of the game?
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Could you please both give your reasons for voting for joth (or point me to them)?
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I mean, are you looking only at vote counts and not at the rest of the game?
This reads like deliberately missing the point.
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For me it was a bunch of stuff, the biggest being his bus on Dylan right before Dylan was lynched, but I was relatively confident Joth was scum before that (his reaction to the masons, his treatment of Dylan's claim, general nebulous scumvibes I can't remember the reason for at this point, I'm not going back and building a case on him at this stage of the game), and then he really scummed it up the day we lynched him too.
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I mean, are you looking only at vote counts and not at the rest of the game?
This reads like deliberately missing the point.
What's the point?
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The scum me narrative is such an epic conspiracy theory.
It isn't.
The thing about scum lynches is that they are very difficult. Scum will do everything they can to avoid them.
Literally everyone other than Joth in the game wanted to lynch Joth, scum obviously bussed.
Jimmm could never unvote Dylan after Dylan faked a guilty on him, it would make no sense as town and therefore no sense as scum, once Dylan made that move, regardless of Jimmm's alignment, Jimmm was committed to staying on. Joth only bussed when the lynch on Dylan was inevitable. Jimmm didn't actually vote Joth, just said he wanted to (and that lynch looked pretty damn inevitable too.)
No towncred for you.
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And that line of reasoning and that grab for towncred read as very scummy to me.
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And that line of reasoning and that grab for towncred read as very scummy to me.
Of course it did.
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I'll do the other half of my reread tomorrow.
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Umbrage, what was your reaction to seeing ss was a Roleblocker?
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Okay, I did more or less a full re-read. I went into thinking Umbrage was scum, but I've changed my mind and think it's LaLight now.
Day 1:
joth was voting for me for a large portion of the Day. He made a big (for Day 1) case on me: #393 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19249.msg780588#msg780588).
After DatSwan's Mason claim, Galz and I had 3 votes on us each. Dylan and joth both voted for me (#385 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19249.msg780557#msg780557) and #386 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19249.msg780558#msg780558)), putting me on L-2 with Galz still on L-4.
They both (particularly joth) pushed for lynching me ahead of lynching Galz. If I was scum with them, it would have been the easiest thing in the world to get the Galz lynch through. Obviously joth did end up hammering Galz, but only because that's the Towny thing to do (avoid a no-lynch). If you read Day 1 after the DatSwan claim, they definitely tried to lynch me.
Bear in mind that if I'm scum, I'm a full (not 1-shot) Strongman, which is probably very close to the most valuable member. With various possibilities for for Town Roleblockers and Doctors, the Strongman would be the one to make every kill a guarantee. Also a Strongman flip helps Town solve the game as it indicates the possible number of Ts. There is no way scum wants to kill their Strongman on Day 1.
Day 2:
This is the Day that made me change my mind about Umbrage. It's the one significant Day that scum hasn't tried to lynch me, and they tried to lynch you instead. joth seemed pretty keen for your lynch, and Dylan voted for you too. The same argument apply for them not bussing you, except that if you're scum you're only a 1-Shot Strongman.
Day 3:
Funnily enough, joth says it best:
By the same token, “scum makes a fake cop claim and accuses themselves in order to guarantee the game that they’ve basically won drags on two more turns” strikes me as absurdly implausible.
As I've said before, scum was in a very good position before Dylan's claim. Even if all 3 scum had come under suspicion, there were plenty of opportunities for mislynches. New reads and cases always come up, and it was very unclear who would be lynched that day. In the scenario in which I'm scum, Dylan's claim absolutely guaranteed that the next lynch would be scum.
Day 4:
I didn't technically participate in the joth lynch. In hindsight I probably should have voted for him at the start of the Day, and I should probably use my vote better in general. But I was very vocal about wanting to lynch him. I feel like I led that lynch (primarily on Day 3) more than anyone, except maybe DatSwan.
Also about the Dylan claim - a Dylan/joth/me team in this scenario (if we did for some reason decide to claim a Cop result on our own), would have been much better off if I had been lynched instead of Dylan. Dylan and joth tied themselved together very strongly and Dylan probably would have received much more Town cred for his claim resulting in a correct lynch that I received by being targeted. So if this was the case I should have done less to fight against being lynched. As it happened, I fought hard against it and succeeded, making the following joth lynch fairly inevitable.
About the mcmc kill:
LaLight argued pretty strongly against mcmc. I think that if you (Umbrage) or I were scum, we would kill the other and leave LaLight and mcmc alive, hoping for a mcmc lynch. Scum LaLight leaving him alive doesn't help much if he's the only one who expressed a scum read on him.
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I was thinking about your last sentence and got the same response every time which obviously doesn't work: why would I kill mcmc if you both were super more townie than him. But yeah, as scum I think I would kill UoS most likely, because I still think he is super townie and I am not voting for you because well, I'm afraid and I really need to reread more
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I didn't think he was particularly scummy. Not sure if Umbrage did. There's no point scum you keeping him alive if no one else thinks he's scummy.
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I'm afraid and I really need to reread more
What are you afraid of that you weren't afraid of earlier in the Day?
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I'm afraid and I really need to reread more
What are you afraid of that you weren't afraid of earlier in the Day?
You made some points pro scum!Umbrage theory
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I didn't think he was particularly scummy. Not sure if Umbrage did. There's no point scum you keeping him alive if no one else thinks he's scummy.
Same can be said for both of you as well
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only I was scumread by you and mcmc was scumread by me
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so potential scum!UoS had a choice of killing you and hope I'll vote for mcmc or killing mcmc and hoping you'll vote for me
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I'll put together a case tomorrow. Please don't vote for me before then.
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request prod: UoS
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I get the point of no rushing but dragging to the deadline is an awful idea
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also weekends are ahead
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request prod: UoS
Sent
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request prod: Jimmmmm
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I am leaving work in 45 minutes and I wait for a case promised and possible return of UoS
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then I will be mostly unavailable till tomorrow, maybe will return at night
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Sorry I didn't get to this yesterday, I'll get to it today but not right now.
Awful short prod timer
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And yeah, I basically was super busy yesterday and decided "well, I'll wait for Jimmmm's case before finishing my reread" because maybe that will help me be in a different headspace during said 2nd half of reread. It was a good justification to prioritize other things anyway.
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LaLight, if you have other stuff to say you should say it.
Also, I'm finding it kind of weird that people are missing that mcmc and I were scumreading each other too. If one of you had missed it maybe I'd read something into it, but you both forgot, damn you.
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Sorry. Case coming in next few hours.
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Throughout the game LaLight had very few interactions with joth and Dylan. He expressed scumread on various people (mcmc, ash, ss, faust off the top of my head). Here are the grand total of interactions from LaLight's perspective that I could find:
Just LaLight responding to their posts. I don't think they are meaningful one way or another. Only included for completeness.
LaLight's posts about joth:
for some reasons I can't put my finger on Joth. He reads townie, but I don't know, can't feel him
I think it’s mcmc and joth.
when you'll see mcmc/joth team you'll be like "LaLight told us but we were not listening!"
I am all in for voting joth
vote: mcmc
---snip---
this is just a last minute bussing
vote: joth L-1 is my input
There is a single short post on joth for the entire game until Day 4 when he developed a scum read on him for no explained reason. Granted it was early in the Day, but I think the writing was very much on the wall that after they failed to lynch me joth was going to be next. LaLight was already their last hope so he had to bus.
About Dylan:
Looking at what seem to have been the major lynch candidates, I think mcmc and Dylan are scummyish and DatSwan is Towny.
Is it possible it is a partner call? Jimmmmm/mcmc//Jimmmmm/Dylan?
...
Given that Jimmmmm never lynched both as soon as I can see
I am null on Dylan, and I don't like the two votes on him. Let's sheep faust, vote: silverspawn
The game started on December 13. Between then and January 4, the grand total of reads LaLight had expressed on joth or Dylan were "for some reasons I can't put my finger on Joth. He reads townie, but I don't know, can't feel him", "I am null on Dylan, and I don't like the two votes on him." and "Is it possible it is a partner call? Jimmmmm/mcmc//Jimmmmm/Dylan?".
vote: no lynch
I don’t really believe Dylan, but i still would not put beyond faust and DS the gambit they would play. As much as i believe they are masons i would like to see the confirmation. I’ve been fooled like this all too many times.
This post was about 24 hours after Dylan's claim, so the closest to a reaction we've got.
mcmc, LL, UoS: What was your first instinct/reaction to Dylan's claim?
Well, my initial reaction was I believed it but then nothing really came together so I didn't in the end
Now, about a week and a new Game Day after the claim, his story has changed. Despite a claimed Cop result, the rest of LaLight's posts that Day are about whether or not to believe the Masons. His total contribution to the Dylan/me situation was "I don’t really believe Dylan (but let's talk about the Masons instead)".
But all you did was vote no vote. You never expressed any interest in either Dylan or Jimm. And you were the only person sitting on the no lynch train all day
Yes. I would vote Dylan after a no lynch day. I see why you didn't want to no lynch, I had it in me that I didn't believe you 100%
vote: no lynch
I don’t really believe Dylan, but i still would not put beyond faust and DS the gambit they would play. As much as i believe they are masons i would like to see the confirmation. I’ve been fooled like this all too many times.
This. I didn't really believe Dylan.
After that voting for him would be hammering and it wasn't late in the day. I was unavailable then, we had state holidays till 8th
Now, after saying he initially believed Dylan, he goes back to saying he didn't believe him. Again, this is after the Dylan flip, and of course it's important given how close Dylan and joth were to distance himself from them.
mcmc, LL, UoS: What was your first instinct/reaction to Dylan's claim?
Mine was that it was statistically extremely unlikely that Dylan and Faust and swan were all town, and that what made the most sense was Dylan being scum however no lynching and seeing faust flip mason would have made me more comfortable.
Exactly
Now he agrees exactly with mcmc (his biggest scumread) to help explain how he supposedly felt about the Dylan claim. And yet, he himself said "Well, my initial reaction was I believed it."
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In summary, LaLight spent the first ~3 RL weeks / Game Days saying very little and nothing of any substance about Dylan or joth.
After Dylan's claim, he said one small non-committal statement and then proceeded to talk about the Masons instead.
After it was fairly obvious that joth would be the next lynch, LaLight came up with an unexplained scumread on him, alongside a Townie.
When questioned about how he felt about the Dylan claim, he could not keep his story straight, and ended up quoting his supposedly biggest scum read to explain how he felt.
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More to come.
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Well that's more persuasive than I expected.
I'm definitely going to put off finishing my reread until tomorrow, see what else you say and how LaLight responds.
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D6 starts now and ends on Monday 21st January at 22.00 Czech time (4pm forum time).
Reminder for all of us, especially me.
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Nice to meet you joth! I've read all the games on this forum, so I know you, but you don't know me. glad to have you back!
oh and UoS, glad to have you back as well
Hmm, here's something (I didn't notice this post earlier). As his very first post of the game, LaLight goes out of his way to say that he is only meeting joth now, and that joth doesn't know him. Then he realises he should probably say hi to someone else as well. I'm guessing they had said hi in the Mafia QT, and decided they should say hi in the game thread as well.
Not a huge point, just something I noticed.
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Looking at joth's interactions with LaLight. Again, they are very sparse. That's probably less noteworthy since LaLight was generally less active. Early on there are some mentions of LaLight's meta knowledge, which I'm not really considering (although they probably planned to bring that up), and joth requests a prod on LaLight.
Would lynch: DatSwan, silver, Jimmmm
Neutral: mcmc, LaLight, Umbrage
Would rather not lynch: Dylan, faust, Robz
Would not lynch: joth, Galz, ashersky
---snip---
So I moved my vote to DatSwan. But it was as much a vote for DatSwan as it was an unvote for Dylan.
After that the wagon just sort of puttered out -- Lalight showed up and said it was bad, silver moved his vote, we started talking about other wagons.
In this possibilities post, he mentions LaLight a few times, but only in a PoE/scum must be in this group way.
I am getting a town read on mcmcsalot.
Umbrage and LaLight could definitely both be scum. They’ve been under the radar, especially LaLight. If I have time, I’ll go back and look for evidence of a Jim-LaLight-Umbrage team.
...
I meant a Jimm-LaLight or a Jimm-Umbrage.
...
Or umbrage-LaLight. Basically that I will look for the last two scum among those three.
More "LaLight is in this group of people who could be scum".
All this is doing is pushing me more so to say we should be lynching lalight today no lynching tommorow and then there is a slight chance the decision is made easier.
Why LaLight?
Alright, I'm not as far along on this as I had hoped to be but I have to go to my gate.
halfway-ish through a reread, I actually agree with Swan that Snow seems pretty towny. Jim reads scummy to me, but I agree that he's a bad lynch today given everything.
So for me that leaves lalight and mcmc. And what I will say is, neither of them have given me a strong reason to believe they're town. Lalight has been pushing for a mcmc lynch all game, but its never been realistically on the table, which seems like a great place to be with your partner.
I think there's a reasonably good chance they're our scum team, and I think mcmc is currently the scummier read of the two, based on the above posts.
vote:mcmcsalot
And finally a post expressing something of an opinion on LaLight. This is after the Dylan lynch, so joth is already in trouble. Note that he says both mcmc and LaLight are scummy. And despite saying "I am getting a town read on mcmcsalot." only 2.5 RL days earlier, he now flips that and says "neither of them have given me a strong reason to believe they're town", and votes for mcmc.
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Apart from regarding the fact that he's read all the game, these are all Dylan's mentions of LaLight that I found:
Well, I hope someone on Galz wakes up and switches, cuz I've stayed on as long as I can. I actually like LL's point here and feel good about Jimmmmm's flip as long as someone actually wakes up in time to hammer.
Forgot to put it in the VLA thread, but I did say here I would be VLA until new years.
My gut read on UoS is scum, but he's mostly been tunneling me the whole game, so it might be a little OMGUS.
I'm still skeptical of the Mason claim, however faust's posts from 527 to 547 do actually make the mason narrative for his and Swan's behavior actually seem plausible instead of just coming across like a totally stubborn and antitown willingness to take it through to a no lynch.
I'm not really a fan of the Robz wagon. LL seems like he's done a ton of sheeping this game-continuing with his Robz vote. I can see Joth going either way depending on what I want to see when I read him, and there's the aforementioned skepticism about faust.
If it looks like it's going to come down to the two, I would prefer Vote: UmbrageOfSnow. I'm leaning slightly town on Robz, although if Joth is town, then his point on Robz does actually make sense. I would probably rather lynch Joth or LL over Robz though.
Ie, "I actually like LL's point here and feel good about Jimmmmm's flip" and "LL seems like he's done a ton of sheeping this game-continuing with his Robz vote."
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A few more posts of LaLight being generally scummy:
I think this is quite transparent why I am voting ash
Why did you write this rather than an explanation of your vote?
well, because it's always better to withhold information to draw any kind of reactions rather than just saying things, in my opinion
So how do you think our little exchange where you withheld the information only to reveal it in literally your next post helped the town effort? I know that withholding information can be good, but I don't understand why you think that would apply in this case.
Well, my little plan was for someone to play along (that’s why there was really some rason behind my words) and maybe make ash nervous and see the reaction, but when I got a direct question, i thought it would be much better just to answer it so the point is moot.
vote: mcmc
This feels like a really awkward attempt at a "Town plan".
also for god's sake why kill ashersky :(
ashersky kill is still a weird thing, I can't see him even softclaiming anything. I remember the game in asher9++ when he softclaimed UB, while being VT to draw the kill (successfully). Nothing like this this time
I've said it before, but this sort of thing is a big scumtell for me. I think scum makes kills trying to be unpredictable, thinking that Townies will see them and think "Why that kill??". But mostly I think Townies just see the kill, think "Not me, okay" and carry on with the game.
This kind of tell has actually been really reliable for me this game, as it was what made me suspect both Dylan and joth early on.
Thank god they’re masons
Again, a really easy way for scum to "react" to Night Kills, but Townies just don't normally react as strongly, or at least don't feel the need to post it.
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nonsense. I always interact with my scum partners if i am scum, look at any of my last 3-4 games or basically at any of my games. I actually do think that not interacting with your partners is such a poor play I create interactions that are scummy. and also:
Also LaLight hammers his scum partner EVERY time, so that should have been a huge scum tell. Well played LaLight
I didn’t hammer!
True, I guess I should just say busses!
this was just the last game before this one. if those two were my partners, I would vote dylan the same minute he claimed cop and I would vote both of them a lot throughout the game. I am positive town points are much more valuable than living partner. Sometimes I shoot myself to the leg with this, but this just always happens.
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In summary, LaLight spent the first ~3 RL weeks / Game Days saying very little and nothing of any substance about Dylan or joth.
After Dylan's claim, he said one small non-committal statement and then proceeded to talk about the Masons instead.
After it was fairly obvious that joth would be the next lynch, LaLight came up with an unexplained scumread on him, alongside a Townie.
When questioned about how he felt about the Dylan claim, he could not keep his story straight, and ended up quoting his supposedly biggest scum read to explain how he felt.
Yeah, because before handling situation with Dylan and you I really needed to handle situation with Masons. One at a time
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In summary, LaLight spent the first ~3 RL weeks / Game Days saying very little and nothing of any substance about Dylan or joth.
After Dylan's claim, he said one small non-committal statement and then proceeded to talk about the Masons instead.
After it was fairly obvious that joth would be the next lynch, LaLight came up with an unexplained scumread on him, alongside a Townie.
When questioned about how he felt about the Dylan claim, he could not keep his story straight, and ended up quoting his supposedly biggest scum read to explain how he felt.
Yeah, because before handling situation with Dylan and you I really needed to handle situation with Masons. One at a time
Oh and i quoted mcmc because he definitely just said the same thing as i felt. How does it matter if he is my biggest scumread or not? I feel this exact point very far-fetched
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I think scum makes kills trying to be unpredictable, thinking that Townies will see them and think "Why that kill??".
Did someone in a history of all the games ever did that? No one cares how town will think, scum usually just kills the towniest player. Say, usual pattern is killing faust N1, then kill anyone who breadcrumbs stuff then kill anyone who claims. This is by the way another point: I would never ever in any state leave claimed masons alive if they are masons and I would persuade my team to kill them because "try to make everyone think masons are a scumteam" literally NEVER works. I am sure this is not making me more town in your eyes, just sayin'
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In summary, LaLight spent the first ~3 RL weeks / Game Days saying very little and nothing of any substance about Dylan or joth.
After Dylan's claim, he said one small non-committal statement and then proceeded to talk about the Masons instead.
After it was fairly obvious that joth would be the next lynch, LaLight came up with an unexplained scumread on him, alongside a Townie.
When questioned about how he felt about the Dylan claim, he could not keep his story straight, and ended up quoting his supposedly biggest scum read to explain how he felt.
Yeah, because before handling situation with Dylan and you I really needed to handle situation with Masons. One at a time
Oh and i quoted mcmc because he definitely just said the same thing as i felt. How does it matter if he is my biggest scumread or not? I feel this exact point very far-fetched
But you "initially believed" the claim, which is not what mcmc said.
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nonsense. I always interact with my scum partners if i am scum, look at any of my last 3-4 games or basically at any of my games. I actually do think that not interacting with your partners is such a poor play I create interactions that are scummy. and also:
Also LaLight hammers his scum partner EVERY time, so that should have been a huge scum tell. Well played LaLight
I didn’t hammer!
True, I guess I should just say busses!
this was just the last game before this one. if those two were my partners, I would vote dylan the same minute he claimed cop and I would vote both of them a lot throughout the game. I am positive town points are much more valuable than living partner. Sometimes I shoot myself to the leg with this, but this just always happens.
This is a poor defense from someone as aware of metas as you. The fact that you're arguing that you always bus as scum demonstrates that you're self-aware enough to try to play against your scum meta. If you, someone who was clearly thinking and talking about metas at the start of the game, bussed in your last 3-4 scum games, why on earth would you do it again this game?
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nonsense. I always interact with my scum partners if i am scum, look at any of my last 3-4 games or basically at any of my games. I actually do think that not interacting with your partners is such a poor play I create interactions that are scummy. and also:
Also LaLight hammers his scum partner EVERY time, so that should have been a huge scum tell. Well played LaLight
I didn’t hammer!
True, I guess I should just say busses!
this was just the last game before this one. if those two were my partners, I would vote dylan the same minute he claimed cop and I would vote both of them a lot throughout the game. I am positive town points are much more valuable than living partner. Sometimes I shoot myself to the leg with this, but this just always happens.
This is a poor defense from someone as aware of metas as you. The fact that you're arguing that you always bus as scum demonstrates that you're self-aware enough to try to play against your scum meta. If you, someone who was clearly thinking and talking about metas at the start of the game, bussed in your last 3-4 scum games, why on earth would you do it again this game?
because i am well aware and sure that creating zero interactions with your partners just instantly outs you. This just happened in the last M game before this one. Meta is one thing, poor play is another one
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I am not self aware enough to just radically change my style the way it will look organically.
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I just don't know which is scummier: you for making this case or UoS for saying this is convincible
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I am not self aware enough to just radically change my style the way it will look organically.
Are you saying you weren't aware at the start of the game that your scum meta was to bus etc, or that you'd be unable to not interact with your teammates?
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because i am well aware and sure that creating zero interactions with your partners just instantly outs you. This just happened in the last M game before this one. Meta is one thing, poor play is another one
By your logic, you are instantly outed.
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I am not self aware enough to just radically change my style the way it will look organically.
Are you saying you weren't aware at the start of the game that your scum meta was to bus etc, or that you'd be unable to not interact with your teammates?
I'd be unable to not interact with them, I think this is superdumb thing to do
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because i am well aware and sure that creating zero interactions with your partners just instantly outs you. This just happened in the last M game before this one. Meta is one thing, poor play is another one
By your logic, you are instantly outed.
I am town though.
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creating zero interactions with your partners just instantly outs you.
I just don't know which is scummier: you for making this case
These two statements contradict.
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creating zero interactions with your partners just instantly outs you.
I just don't know which is scummier: you for making this case
These two statements contradict.
no, they don't. I see that you've made a lackluster case based on no interactions between me and known scums to paint me scummier.
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creating zero interactions with your partners just instantly outs you.
I just don't know which is scummier: you for making this case
These two statements contradict.
I see why you think this from your point of view though. Argh
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there's basically nothing i can say that won't be the quote of my QT to convince you you're wrong here and town!me would definitely have less interactions with scums in this game than scum!me
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But it is so
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there's basically nothing i can say that won't be the quote of my QT to convince you you're wrong here and town!me would definitely have less interactions with scums in this game than scum!me
Why would you want to convince me?
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there's basically nothing i can say that won't be the quote of my QT to convince you you're wrong here and town!me would definitely have less interactions with scums in this game than scum!me
Why would you want to convince me?
Because atm I am talking with you and there is a non-zero probability that you are town
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there's basically nothing i can say that won't be the quote of my QT to convince you you're wrong here and town!me would definitely have less interactions with scums in this game than scum!me
Why would you want to convince me?
Because atm I am talking with you and there is a non-zero probability that you are town
As I've learned Today, making the case on yourself to by Town at LyLo doesn't always do much. If you're Town, convince me that Umbrage is scum or Umbrage that I am scum (preferably the former).
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I've said it before, but this sort of thing is a big scumtell for me. I think scum makes kills trying to be unpredictable, thinking that Townies will see them and think "Why that kill??". But mostly I think Townies just see the kill, think "Not me, okay" and carry on with the game.
I do this all the time as town, for the record. Also I feel like I'm more likely to think "why was it not me?"
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Do either of you remember examples of games where LaLight was
a) caught scum fighting while freaking out?
b) town about to be mislynched in LYLO?
Felt like I got a pretty genuine reaction out of him either way there.
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Do either of you remember examples of games where LaLight was
a) caught scum fighting while freaking out?
b) town about to be mislynched in LYLO?
Felt like I got a pretty genuine reaction out of him either way there.
There was never a precedent for b
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It's notable to me that LaLight didn't OMGUS Jimmmmm, I feel like a lot of players would have. Maybe because I threw in a comment and it felt more like a ganging up?
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Can you please give me a couple games where you were alive in LYLO, as each alignment, LaLight?
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talking about a) if i understood you correctly, there was huge mess in RMM40 (Stranger Things) where I was scum and I freaked out as hell
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Can you please give me a couple games where you were alive in LYLO, as each alignment, LaLight?
Last one was Newbie Mafia Adventure Time as scum, and I don't remember the town one. At least 3-person LyLo is a really new thing to me
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Thank you
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From Adventure Time Mafia
I am pretty sure we had wagons on 2 scums, and I would not do this to bus my partner, because why would i?
This is kind of hilarious in light of LaLight's self-meta opinions of his own play.
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Okay, I clearly need moar coffee.
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From Adventure Time Mafia
I am pretty sure we had wagons on 2 scums, and I would not do this to bus my partner, because why would i?
This is kind of hilarious in light of LaLight's self-meta opinions of his own play.
But yeah of course, this was an argument for WCD, i tried to play on her newbiness at the time
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We have little over 48 hours. I will be practically completely unavailable tomorrow, but will be here on monday
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Sorry, snow storm coming in, other stuff to do today, getting back to this tomorrow.
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FYI the deadline is at 8am for me. I intend to have my vote down before I go to bed tonight. I may be on again in the morning before deadline, but no promises.
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As long as you're still planning to vote LL, I'm fine with that, basically leaves the decision on me, which is where it felt like it would end up anyway at the beginning of the day.
Sorry, I've spent what little time I had for this today reading old games, but haven't really posted any more about them. I'm throwing myself into trying to meta-read LaLight.
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LaLight, why didn't you mention Samurai Jack Mafia?
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LaLight, why didn't you mention Samurai Jack Mafia?
Oh well, totally forgot. It was a very weird game anyway, both of them actually. The first one was my first town MVP, the second one was won by RNG
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I once swore to myself I would never forum mafia at 3 AM, but here we are:
If Jimm were scum it would be sooooooo tempting for scum to NK Swan on N1 (they're going to have to do it sooner or later anyway) and then scum!Jimmmmmmmm can counterclaim the other mason with a reasonable chance of trading 1 for 1 (but doesn't have to if it doesn't make sense in that situation)
Ash NK had to be PR hunting + fear.
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I once swore to myself I would never forum mafia at 3 AM, but here we are:
If Jimm were scum it would be sooooooo tempting for scum to NK Swan on N1 (they're going to have to do it sooner or later anyway) and then scum!Jimmmmmmmm can counterclaim the other mason with a reasonable chance of trading 1 for 1 (but doesn't have to if it doesn't make sense in that situation)
Ash NK had to be PR hunting + fear.
Why would he trade 1 to 1 on D2?
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Also for the record, my wallposts to myself have been useful to myself, so :p
LL: why would faust being outed as the mason partner on D2 be part of scum's plans? Especially in they hypothetical where the N1 kill was Swan instead?
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Also for the record, my wallposts to myself have been useful to myself, so :p
LL: why would faust being outed as the mason partner on D2 be part of scum's plans? Especially in they hypothetical where the N1 kill was Swan instead?
Sorry, I don't get it. Why do you think outing faust is a scumplan? What do you mean?
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I mean if Swan is killed, Jimmmmm claims Mason, and the only good thing out of 1v1 is taking down faust?
Especially given this:
Vote: Jimmmmm
No one would believe Jimmmmm is the partner
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Honestly there's no reason to explain this to you, it's an argument for you being scum, so it's either wrong or you won't agree with it if it's right.
But anyway! That's not what I think. I'm saying that I wasn't saying that hypothetical scum!Jimmmmm would trade 1-for-1 on D2, I'm saying that if Swan were the N1 kill then scum!Jimmmm always has that option, and other Mason isn't likely to claim until L-1, and depending on the circumstances it could be very advantageous for scum!Jimmmm to counterclaim mason at that point in the game.
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Honestly there's no reason to explain this to you, it's an argument for you being scum, so it's either wrong or you won't agree with it if it's right.
But anyway! That's not what I think. I'm saying that I wasn't saying that hypothetical scum!Jimmmmm would trade 1-for-1 on D2, I'm saying that if Swan were the N1 kill then scum!Jimmmm always has that option, and other Mason isn't likely to claim until L-1, and depending on the circumstances it could be very advantageous for scum!Jimmmm to counterclaim mason at that point in the game.
ah, ok. Still, DS voted for Jimmmmm on D1, so it's not really an option, given how faust interacted with DS.
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So D1 would lead you to think no one would believe Jimmm was Swan's mason partner?
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So D1 would lead you to think no one would believe Jimmm was Swan's mason partner?
Compared to faust? I definitely don’t think so
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Okay, cool
Vote: LaLight
Hammer is all yours, Jimmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
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noted
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oh i see
vote: UoS
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This looks like UoS has more information than me and doesn't really want to share it... How does this even make sense for town?
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it just looks like "here, obvious proof that LL is scum, can't you see that". I hope it doesn't work
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Overall I didn't see UoS being the last scum. I am surprised. This is a good play from you
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The reason for mcmcs' death, which I didn't see until I finished the reread:
So here is my concern. I know I’m town, I know swan is town, I’m operating under the assumption jimm is town (if not amazing gambit by Dylan mvp). So either one of umbrage/lalight are bussing joth or they are hoping to god jimm or me hammers this for the win.
Woah I just reread lalight he has literally been pushing for my lynch the entire game.
Rereading umbrage now but I don’t think lalight and umbrage are partners and I honk lalight looks more like a bussing partner than umbrage.
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The other thing is that back at that point in the game, I only worked out faust + Swan by POE with a scrap of a napkin. It was something you could see, but it wasn't obvious, no one else acted like it was obvious, scum were already playing up Jim + Swan conspiracy theories at the end of D1. But you could work it out if you sat down and looked through the options on N1, and that can become fixed in your mind as something more obvious than it was.
That, and it reads to me like LaLight hasn't been looking at D1 as closely as you'd expect of town here.
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Overall I didn't see UoS being the last scum. I am surprised. This is a good play from you
Why? How has he played a good game? (Sorry if you've said that already.)
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yeah well, in the case of already built 1 to 1 everyone would look at the exact interactions of faust/ds and Jimmmmm/ds. Also how is me not looking closely at D1 indicating I am scum? this... is not a good case
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Overall I didn't see UoS being the last scum. I am surprised. This is a good play from you
Why? How has he played a good game? (Sorry if you've said that already.)
yeah well, I haven't scumread him in the slightest. I had my doubts, that's why I did in the end unvote after voting you, which I am happy i did, but I was thinking it's more probably you
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Umbrage, what was your reaction to seeing ss was a Roleblocker?
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Umbrage, what was your reaction to seeing ss was a Roleblocker?
I totally missed it at the time. I think I must have seen it in the thread in one of those kind of minor checks when I should be doing something else, glossed over it and forgot, then only noticed it later in the day when someone said something about SS' rb shot.
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Umbrage, what was your reaction to seeing ss was a Roleblocker?
I totally missed it at the time. I think I must have seen it in the thread in one of those kind of minor checks when I should be doing something else, glossed over it and forgot, then only noticed it later in the day when someone said something about SS' rb shot.
Did you have thoughts about there being a Roleblocker before or after seeing the flip?
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I always knew there was a roleblocker, as should be obvious.
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Collapsing of exhaustion now
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How did I only just notice SS was an RB?
Was this a breadcrumb?
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Like half crumb half legit mistake I made.
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Like half crumb half legit mistake I made.
Regardless of whether you made a mistake, it was either a breadcrumb or not. Did you intend to use that post to validate your RB claim?
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Not really, I wasn't all that worried about someone counterclaiming 1-shot RB. But I probably only said it because I had it in the back of my head that I should crumb things, I could have just not mentioned my screwup, it's not like I post every thought that pops into my head.
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Vote: LaLight
Fingers crossed. Thanks for the game everyone.
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oh well
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you are correct! Thank you for the game and sorry, partners!
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you are correct! Thank you for the game and sorry, partners!
Hooray! :)
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other than me struggling with the time and game, i really tried toi play on changing my meta as i always bus and always interact with partners. Didn't work out, but it was a good experience, nevertheless
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other than me struggling with the time and game, i really tried toi play on changing my meta as i always bus and always interact with partners. Didn't work out, but it was a good experience, nevertheless
Your meta argument did make me doubt my instincts. I think it was a step too far, though, how little meaningful interaction there was between you and either of the other two in either direction.
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I was also super unsure about the last nk. UoS seemed like an obvious choice, but mcmc added extra level to that
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I was also super unsure about the last nk. UoS seemed like an obvious choice, but mcmc added extra level to that
Was your quick Day 6 vote a tactic? I was doubtful whether scum would do that.
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I was also super unsure about the last nk. UoS seemed like an obvious choice, but mcmc added extra level to that
Was your quick Day 6 vote a tactic? I was doubtful whether scum would do that.
yeah, scum wouldn't. It was WIFOM
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I knew UoS was sleeping at that time (well, I was 90% sure) so I waited if you'll say something scummy and I would unvote anyway
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Final Day 6 Vote Count
Lalight (2): UmbrageOfSnow, Jimmmmm
UmbrageOfSnow (1): Lalight
Not voting (0):
With 3 alive, it took 2 to lynch.
Lalight was Silák, of team Šmejdi! He was the Mafia Strongman.
Congratulations to town! Thread Unlocked for everyone.
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can I see the speccy? :)
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https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/EthBCTJbsvwku
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Congratulations, Town!
Mod QT: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/SKy7cqJyZziPL
Scum QT: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/cnQBXXnNXZsjG
Fun fact: everyone RBd mcmcsalot (the VT) on N3.
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Alright, after reading speccy, i don’t think i suck anymore. Also i found it amusing to be on the same wagon as guys. Good game anyway, good job town!
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Hey a win, neat! GG all. I think you played quite well, LL.
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Wow great job jimm, this was a super close and super fun game.
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I said this in the speccy and I'll say it here: LaLight played really really well. I definitely brought down the scum team with my crazy big ideas.
Fun fact: everyone RBd mcmcsalot (the VT) on N3.
I wondered if that was the case -- silver too?
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Town played well this game, and I really don't mean to offend anyone by saying this. But I feel like we kinda lost this game to ourselves. Everything I was saying about "why would scum fakeclaim like that when they were already winning?" was just me saying "oh god what were we thinking?"
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Really nice lylo play by everyone involved.
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Woot! Good game all!
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I have to say, I'm quite proud of myself and my teammates for coming through in the end. Thanks Umbrage for believing me! Of course scum shot themselves in the feet quite badly. :P
I enjoyed the fake Cop result on me - that sort of thing tends to really help me get in to the game.
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Glad to serve my purpose as a VT who soaks an NK.