Dominion Strategy Forum

Miscellaneous => Forum Games => Mafia Game Threads => Topic started by: SpaceAnemone on November 25, 2018, 06:07:32 am

Title: M120: Czech Mafia (Game Over! Town wins!)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on November 25, 2018, 06:07:32 am
Welcome to M120: Czech Mafia!

Setup: M120 will use asher 9++ (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=10639.msg353797#msg353797).

Mods: SpaceAnemone, EFHW

Player List:
1. faust
2. LaLight
3. Robz
4. mcmcsalot
5. DatSwan
6. Jimmmmm
7. ashersky
8. UmbrageOfSnow
9. jotheonah
10. Galzria
11. silver
12. Dylan

Tagged: e, hypercube
Sub list: WCD, Joseph

Navigation: Start of D1 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19249.msg779747#msg779747), Start of D2 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19249.msg780838#msg780838), Start of D3 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19249.msg781548#msg781548), Start of D4 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19249.msg782011#msg782011), Start of D5 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19249.msg782595#msg782595), Start of D6 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19249.msg782730#msg782730)

The Golden Rule:
This is a game. Everyone who signs up to play must be considerate of each other, never get personal, and focus on having fun. Once the game starts, having signed up is a commitment: inactivity is just as inconsiderate as rude comments.

The Standard Rules:
1. No communication between players outside of the game thread or shared QTs at any time. This includes passing references, jokes, or cases in other games or threads, whether in context or not.
2. If the game thread is locked, do not post. If you are unsure if something is locked, ask the mod by PM.
3. Direct or verbatim quoting of mod-provided information is strictly forbidden. Paraphrasing is okay.
4. Actions with instructions that do not specify a game state will be resolved in the order they are received.
5. All night actions must be submitted within 24 hours of day ending.
6. Players must post at least once every 24 hours.
7. Do not edit or delete posts, ever. If you need to clarify or correct something, post again.
8. Invisible text, font size less than 10, and spoiler tags are not allowed.
9. Cryptography is not allowed.
10. The time between a lynch being reached and a flip being provided is called twilight. All players may continue posting during this time, including the lynched player.
11. Dead players may not post in thread or QT, except their Role QT. A lynched player is not "dead" until a flip has been provided.
12. Personal multimedia, such as video or audio recordings, are not allowed in the game thread.

The Voting Rules:
1. Votes should be in this format: Vote: Playername. Please do not include other text or newlines in the bolding tag. Unambiguous nicknames are acceptable if they are already in common use. Your vote may not be counted if it cannot be picked up by an automated vote counter.
2. Unvotes should be in this format: unvote.
3. Unvotes are not required if changing your vote from one player to another.
4. You may vote: no lynch.
5. Lynches occur when a simple majority (rounded up) of living players is reached. Once reached, a lynch cannot be undone.

The Rest:
1. Blue-purple text is reserved for the mod. Players may not use it, or anything that looks similar. To avoid confusion, please remove mod colour if quoting the mod's posts.
2. If you have an issue or problem with the game, please PM the Mod. Do not post complaints in the game thread.
3. Mods make mistakes - please point them out gently. If they can be corrected, they will. If irreversible, they will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
4. If a mod error disadvantages one faction greatly, the game may be called off.
5. Ask all questions and make all requests directly to the mod via PM. Questions deemed as "universal" (defined as questions for which the answers should be available to all players) will be requested to be re-posted in the Game Thread and answered there.
6. One prod will be issued after 24 hours without posting in the game thread. Players are subject to replacement or modkill after one prod.
7. All rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity, as determined by the mod.
8. Each player will receive their own QT, regardless of role. Don't quote from it.
9. If the game goes on for 3 days and 3 nights without a lynch or nightkill, town wins.

Deadlines:
1. Days will last seven IRL days.
2. Nights will last 24-48 IRL hours, to be announced at the end of the day. (Your mod cannot always be available for modding at any given hour...)
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia
Post by: SpaceAnemone on November 25, 2018, 06:07:47 am
QT/Role info

Example Role QT message:

Dobrż večer, XXX. You are YYY of team ZZZ.
English explanation of the role name.
English explanation of the win condition.

Teams are Vesničanť for Town and ämejdi for Scum.

Role namess are as follows:

VT -> prostż vesničan
Universal Backup -> UniverzŠlnŪ ZŠloěnŪk
Cop -> Policajt
Doctor -> Doktor
Vigilante -> StrŠěce (spravedlnosti). Not a good translation, but the Czech friend who was helping me was having a hard time finding a good word.
Mason -> ZednŠř (which is builder, but the Order of the Freemasons translates as "ŘŠd svobodnżch zednŠřů", so it seems appropriate).
Innocent Child -> Nevinnť DŪtě
Roleblocker -> Blokovač RolŪ
Goon -> Gorila
Strongman -> SilŠk
Bulletproof -> NeprůstřelňŠk
Godfather -> Kmotr

The "one-shot" modifier is "na jedno pouěitŪ".

Rule Clarifications

Scum RB trumps town RB, if both exist.
If masons exist, they can use their QT(s) in both day and night phases.
Scum can talk at night but do not have daychat.
Don't forget about the asher 9++ (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=10639.msg353797#msg353797) link, which explains quite a lot about the possible setups.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia
Post by: SpaceAnemone on November 25, 2018, 06:07:57 am
Flavour

Dobrż den!

I intend to be very light on flavour. I've been learning Czech for around a year via Duolingo... so I'm still pretty useless at it!

The role names were translated with the help of a Czech friend who didn't really know anything about Mafia, so that was a whole other exercise in translation.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia
Post by: faust on November 25, 2018, 09:22:36 am
/in
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia
Post by: LaLight on November 25, 2018, 10:48:34 am
/in
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia
Post by: Robz888 on November 26, 2018, 11:04:57 am
/in
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia
Post by: Dylan32 on November 26, 2018, 12:46:18 pm
/tag
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia
Post by: WestCoastDidds on November 26, 2018, 06:01:53 pm
/tag
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia
Post by: mcmcsalot on November 27, 2018, 09:06:09 am
/in!
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia
Post by: DatSwan on November 28, 2018, 01:07:08 am
/in sicle
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia
Post by: 2.71828..... on November 28, 2018, 08:08:34 am
/tag
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia
Post by: Jimmmmm on November 29, 2018, 04:08:31 am
/in
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia
Post by: ashersky on November 29, 2018, 06:27:25 am
/in
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia
Post by: LaLight on November 29, 2018, 06:46:44 am
/in

yay!
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia
Post by: Robz888 on November 29, 2018, 12:22:14 pm
/in

yay!

Woah! Awesome.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on November 29, 2018, 12:32:31 pm
/in
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia
Post by: faust on November 29, 2018, 12:33:28 pm
/in
I hoped this would happen when I saw you in the design contest thread.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia
Post by: jotheonah on November 30, 2018, 10:10:55 am
/in
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia
Post by: faust on November 30, 2018, 10:29:52 am
This is shaping up to be quite the lineup :)

Remaining wishlist in no particular order:
Voltgloss
Voltaire
yuma
Teproc
...
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia
Post by: Jimmmmm on December 01, 2018, 11:17:02 am
/in

!!!

Welcome back!
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia
Post by: Galzria on December 01, 2018, 11:02:21 pm
/in

!!!

Welcome back!

/in
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia
Post by: SpaceAnemone on December 02, 2018, 05:49:37 pm
Mod note: My existence has been swallowed by work, so there's little chance of this kicking off before Sunday 9th Dec even if it fills before then... my apologies for anyone itching to get started!
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia
Post by: silverspawn on December 03, 2018, 03:36:22 am
/in
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia
Post by: Dylan32 on December 03, 2018, 12:01:40 pm
with the change in start date, /in
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia
Post by: ashersky on December 05, 2018, 06:48:04 am
Thatís hammer.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia
Post by: hypercube on December 05, 2018, 01:12:00 pm
/tag
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia
Post by: jotheonah on December 08, 2018, 10:07:36 am
Mod note: My existence has been swallowed by work, so there's little chance of this kicking off before Sunday 9th Dec even if it fills before then... my apologies for anyone itching to get started!

I am itching to get started ... tomorrow.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia
Post by: Robz888 on December 10, 2018, 11:02:32 am
SPACE! We starting this, or what?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on December 10, 2018, 11:25:20 am
I'm super busy today, so I'm okay with Space being busy.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia
Post by: jotheonah on December 10, 2018, 01:40:50 pm
As excited as I am about this, I am realizing I will have like a week and a half V/LA starting on the 20th during which I probably won't be able to play at all. So idk if I should /out and join a new game in the new year. If the game stops/slows down over Christmas and New Years it might be ok, I just don't really know the norms.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia
Post by: WestCoastDidds on December 10, 2018, 02:00:15 pm
If you decide to out jotheonah, Iím happy to /in
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on December 10, 2018, 03:35:33 pm
Other than Christmas Day itself, the period around there is when I'm likely to be the most available in this game.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia
Post by: Joseph2302 on December 10, 2018, 04:29:31 pm
Looks like you're full, but if anyone else drops out, I can /sub
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia
Post by: SpaceAnemone on December 10, 2018, 05:50:27 pm
I'm back, to some degree! Enough that I'll try and set things going tonight in the next hour or so (then I have to sleep... jetlag after my trip to Tenessee is killing me!).

A co-mod may be useful. I've got some rather tight work deadlines and some personal stuff that mean I may have to disappear again for a day or two at short notice.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia
Post by: SpaceAnemone on December 10, 2018, 08:38:45 pm
PMs going out nowish. Please "/confirm" in your QTs.

I intend to run the game with an extra 24 hours for xmas day if that falls during a daytime, and a discretionary number of extra hours if it's night. Given that we have a willing sub list, I intend to be proactive in subbing out non-present players if they reach 24 hours without posting more than once in the game when they don't have an active VLA posted.

Please post your VLA times in this thread (in addition to anything you do in the VLA thread) at least 72 hours before the start of your intended VLA. This will allow all players to take better account of patchy availability, and will allow me to adjust deadlines as necessary.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia
Post by: EFHW on December 10, 2018, 09:42:57 pm
Looks like you're full, but if anyone else drops out, I can /sub
Same here
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia
Post by: EFHW on December 10, 2018, 09:43:44 pm
Looks like you're full, but if anyone else drops out, I can /sub
Same here
Or I could comod.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia
Post by: SpaceAnemone on December 11, 2018, 05:57:18 am
You should all have your PMs with QT links now.

D1 will begin very approximately 24 hours after the last person checks in, to allow N0 strategising for all relevant parties. Please consider the current period an extended N0 for QT chat purposes.

If there are any hold-outs after 5pm forum time on Thursday, I'll consider swapping in someone from the sub list.

Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia
Post by: SpaceAnemone on December 11, 2018, 05:59:16 am
Looks like you're full, but if anyone else drops out, I can /sub
Same here
Or I could comod.

Comod would be velmŪ dobrť! I'll PM you some details.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Night 0)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on December 12, 2018, 05:50:34 pm
We've officially been in N0 for some time.

I intend to kick off D1 tomorrow morning, Czech time :-)
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on December 13, 2018, 04:58:13 am
Dobrť rŠno! Good morning!

It's the start of D1, in our nice peaceful little Czech village of Vesnice (which literally means village). I do hope nothing bad happens...

Vote Count 1.0

Not voting (12): faust, LaLight, Robz, mcmcsalot, DatSwan, Jimmmmm, ashersky, UmbrageOfSnow, jotheonah, Galzria, silver, Dylan

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. D1 will end at 11am Czech time (5am Forum Time) on Thursday 20th December.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 13, 2018, 05:40:32 am
Finally I'm in a game again.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 13, 2018, 05:41:56 am
Space, how will you handle end-of-year holidays in terms of deadline extensions?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on December 13, 2018, 05:51:51 am
Finally I'm in a game again.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on December 13, 2018, 05:52:29 am
Nice to meet you joth! I've read all the games on this forum, so I know you, but you don't know me. glad to have you back!
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on December 13, 2018, 05:53:00 am
oh and UoS, glad to have you back as well
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 13, 2018, 06:35:53 am
Nice to meet you joth! I've read all the games on this forum, so I know you, but you don't know me. glad to have you back!
How do you know that joth didn't also read all games on this forum?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on December 13, 2018, 07:08:16 am
Nice to meet you joth! I've read all the games on this forum, so I know you, but you don't know me. glad to have you back!
How do you know that joth didn't also read all games on this forum?

He told him in the scum QT, of course.

Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 13, 2018, 07:13:22 am
And yet you're not voting for them?

Vote: ashersky

It feels good to do this again.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on December 13, 2018, 07:23:16 am
Vote: ash

Early D1 wagons are good for Town. ash wagons are very good for Town.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on December 13, 2018, 07:26:49 am
Nice to meet you joth! I've read all the games on this forum, so I know you, but you don't know me. glad to have you back!
How do you know that joth didn't also read all games on this forum?

Technically I haven't said that. Just that he doesn't know me
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on December 13, 2018, 07:27:43 am
vote: mcmcsalot, he's always scum
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia
Post by: SpaceAnemone on December 13, 2018, 07:41:51 am
I intend to run the game with an extra 24 hours for xmas day if that falls during a daytime, and a discretionary number of extra hours if it's night. Given that we have a willing sub list, I intend to be proactive in subbing out non-present players if they reach 24 hours without posting more than once in the game when they don't have an active VLA posted.

Please post your VLA times in this thread (in addition to anything you do in the VLA thread) at least 72 hours before the start of your intended VLA. This will allow all players to take better account of patchy availability, and will allow me to adjust deadlines as necessary.


I'll consider adding extra time if more than 1/3 (rounding up) of the alive players have a posted VLA in effect at the same time.

Also, please note that EFHW is now co-mod, which helps with the busy-mod situation over the next couple of weeks :-)
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: silverspawn on December 13, 2018, 08:45:42 am
Hello everyone. Let's have an active and civil game.

vote: ashersky
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on December 13, 2018, 08:57:07 am
Nice to meet you joth! I've read all the games on this forum, so I know you, but you don't know me. glad to have you back!
How do you know that joth didn't also read all games on this forum?

HA! I can barely get through games I'm actively participating in! LaLight if you really read all ~200 games on this forum I'm extremely impressed.

It is good to be back though. I really need to show my appreciation to Robz for bringing me back into the fold.

Vote: Robz
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on December 13, 2018, 10:14:04 am
Welcome back, sir! Vote: Jo
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 13, 2018, 10:48:07 am
Nice to meet you joth! I've read all the games on this forum, so I know you, but you don't know me. glad to have you back!
How do you know that joth didn't also read all games on this forum?

Technically I haven't said that. Just that he doesn't know me
But you implied that your having read his games makes it so that you know him, so does it not follow that him hypothetically having read all of your games would make him know you?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 13, 2018, 10:48:39 am
Vote: Jimmmmm
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on December 13, 2018, 10:51:24 am
Nice to meet you joth! I've read all the games on this forum, so I know you, but you don't know me. glad to have you back!
How do you know that joth didn't also read all games on this forum?

Technically I haven't said that. Just that he doesn't know me
But you implied that your having read his games makes it so that you know him, so does it not follow that him hypothetically having read all of your games would make him know you?

Here's what I'm more interested. LaLight, if you've read all the games, you should be a very good scum hunter. Who's playing off-meta so far?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: silverspawn on December 13, 2018, 10:59:48 am
vote: josh for asking this question too early. Smells like scared scum.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: silverspawn on December 13, 2018, 11:00:02 am
*vote: joth
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on December 13, 2018, 11:13:50 am
vote: josh for asking this question too early. Smells like scared scum.

what... would scum!me be scared of at this point? Robz's obvious joke vote?

I don't think it's ever too early to start scumhunting and asking people for reads. RVS is boring.

Also, I think RVS is over? So far we have:

* ashersky's (I assume not totally serious) suggestion that Lalight and I are on a scum team together
* faust's vote on ashersky for FoSing us and not voting for us
* Jimmmmmm's vote on ashersky because he likes wagons
* your (silverspawn's) unexplained jumping on the ashersky wagon
* faust's unexplained vote for Jimmmmmm
* my joke vote for Robz
* Robz's joke (?) vote for me
* your (silverspawn's) vote for me for asking Lalight for a read before doing any scumhunting myself

That's a lot of real action, even ignoring some jokey votes!

The things on that list I find scummy so far:
- Jimmmm's ashersky vote
- silverspawn's ashersky vote

I actually don't mind silverspawn's vote for me, even though it's wrong and dumb. It's based on something, whereas Jimmmm's vote on ashersky is mindless wagonning is not. So I think I'll join faust in

vote: Jimmmmm

Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on December 13, 2018, 11:22:00 am
I'd argue that liking early wagons is indeed pro-town and not based-on-nothing or scum-indicative.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on December 13, 2018, 11:22:51 am
Vote: Silverspawn
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on December 13, 2018, 11:25:06 am
Also, Hi LaLight, Faust, everyone else! Good to be back. I'm trying to only commit to one game at a time and only occasionally, but I intend to join more in the next year too.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 13, 2018, 11:30:21 am
I'd argue that liking early wagons is indeed pro-town and not based-on-nothing or scum-indicative.
So why did you vote for someone with 0 votes on them then?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on December 13, 2018, 11:39:19 am
I'd argue that liking early wagons is indeed pro-town and not based-on-nothing or scum-indicative.
So why did you vote for someone with 0 votes on them then?
To make you ask that.

And because of how SS jumped on Joth.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on December 13, 2018, 11:44:11 am
I'd argue that liking early wagons is indeed pro-town and not based-on-nothing or scum-indicative.

Can you (and Jimmmm I guess) explain this perspective?

I see Jimmm's action there (his only action in the game so far) and I see (potentially) scum wanting to look like they're participating without actually contributing or drawing too much attention, with the added bonus of possibly getting a lynch going ASAP. Getting on a wagon early is good for scum, since the FoS tends to fall on the late joiners and the hammerer.

But I'd love to hear the "wagons are protown" argument.

Also, I apologize if I'm rehashing old settled issues here. It's been a long time and I've probably forgotten a lot.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on December 13, 2018, 11:52:06 am
I don't know if it's an old settled issue, I've been out of the loop too, and I'm not sure my views are often consensus anyway.  Broadly the argument is that later-game wagon analysis has more to go on with more "serious" wagons, wagons that get up to L-1 or something and seeing who blinks and who doesn't, while small 3-vote wagons are more noise than signal.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: silverspawn on December 13, 2018, 12:00:59 pm
The things on that list I find scummy so far:
silverspawn's ashersky vote

So you actually think opening the game with an RVS vote is scummy?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on December 13, 2018, 12:31:38 pm
The things on that list I find scummy so far:
silverspawn's ashersky vote

So you actually think opening the game with an RVS vote is scummy?

No, I don't. But when your RVS vote is unexplained and happens to be on a person with 2 votes on them already, that raises an eyebrow.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: silverspawn on December 13, 2018, 12:51:39 pm
It raises an eyebrow if an RVS vote is unexplained? Aren't RVS votes by definition unexplained?

I placed it on ash because ash had 2 votes. Wagons is good.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 13, 2018, 01:13:51 pm
It raises an eyebrow if an RVS vote is unexplained? Aren't RVS votes by definition unexplained?

I placed it on ash because ash had 2 votes. Wagons is good.
How was your vote random if you placed it on ash for this particular reason?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on December 13, 2018, 01:16:01 pm
An RVS vote can be based on a joke, it can be based on a very flimsy case, or, apparently, it can be based on the idea that all wagons are good, which I still don't completely get, but it's pretty clear to me that it's a popular and uncontroversial opinion, so I guess I have to conclude it's not inherently scummy (unless Jim, silver, and Umbradge are all scum together). Still I'm leaving my vote where it is until Jimmmmm shows up and responds to this whole conversation.

Anyway, despite the name, I don't think very many RVS votes are truly random.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Dylan32 on December 13, 2018, 01:19:05 pm
...

Anyway, despite the name, I don't think very many RVS votes are truly random.

Vote: Dylan. Used RNG for "truly random" RVS target, rolled 12...

Unvote
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Dylan32 on December 13, 2018, 01:22:49 pm
Yeah silver's last few posts sounded weird when I first read them, but I guess you can (and frequently do) have reasons for votes in RVS, so an RVS vote with an explanation isn't an oxymoron like I was thinking at first I guess.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Galzria on December 13, 2018, 01:43:47 pm
Hello!

This game is sporting quite the lineup! Joth, amazing to see you here again after all these years! I only just came back last year myself (thanks as well to Robz)!

My schedule for the next week and a half will be as it normally is - moderately present Monday-Friday, almost zero presence on Saturday/Sunday. I also don't expect that I'll be posting a whole ton on Christmas Eve / Christmas Day. Following the 25th I'm off work until January 4th, and while I may travel, I don't expect to be anywhere without access to internet for any extended period of time. After the 4th, schedule is back to normal for me.

PSA for those that don't know and to whom it may matter: DatSwan and I work together, so twinclaimsies there.

----------

With that out of the way:

Joth,


This is quite the response for such an early vote. Generally it's been my experience that a person using a "scum!me" perspective/narrative/argument/outlook isn't giving a tell - that is, it can come from both scum defending their actions or town genuinely believing that as scum they wouldn't do X (or in your case, "be scared of X").

The thing is, you don't have an established town or scum meta. And as your first game back, the only perspective you would have as town is from a town perspective. So it strikes me as odd that you would jump to a "scum!me" defense... especially so early in.

Also, from the same post:
Why was Jimmmm's unexplained vote for Ashersky bad, but faust's unexplained vote for Jimmmm good?

UoS:


Why are you concerned with who people jump on? More specifically, why do you care if somebody votes for Joth? Further, as faust points out, you claim in one post that wagons are pro-town, and then proceed to vote where there are 0 votes currently, instead of either of the two current wagons. Why?

Can you please detail for me your current read on Joth, and why?

Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: silverspawn on December 13, 2018, 02:07:10 pm
It raises an eyebrow if an RVS vote is unexplained? Aren't RVS votes by definition unexplained?

I placed it on ash because ash had 2 votes. Wagons is good.
How was your vote random if you placed it on ash for this particular reason?
It wasn't literally random, I used 'RVS' a bit more broadly.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on December 13, 2018, 02:22:29 pm
Why are you concerned with who people jump on? More specifically, why do you care if somebody votes for Joth? Further, as faust points out, you claim in one post that wagons are pro-town, and then proceed to vote where there are 0 votes currently, instead of either of the two current wagons. Why?

Can you please detail for me your current read on Joth, and why?

It's not the who, it's the how.

Joth's post that got SS' vote was a bit awkward, but in a way that to me seems more like potential-lynchbait-different than scum-different.  I actually agree that it was a weird and kind of useless question but "smells like scared scum" is coming on awfully strong, and in a way that I do think is scummy.

I voted where my biggest scumread at the moment was, I never said I always vote for the biggest wagon, I just think that's a reasonable pro-town thing to do and specifically not an inherently scummy thing to do (re: Jimmmmmmmmm.) Also I wanted to see how people reacted to me saying X is towny... Y! but no one quite jumped on me the way I was hoping and now it's been discussed enough that whatever.

Currently I'm conflicted on Joth, averaging out to null. I'm not inclined to say more about that at this time, I want to see how he acts going forward. (NO PRESSURE JOTH)
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on December 13, 2018, 02:22:42 pm
Are we really wanting people to vote more randomly in RVS? Is this somehow a thing?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on December 13, 2018, 02:28:12 pm
Why was Jimmmm's unexplained vote for Ashersky bad, but faust's unexplained vote for Jimmmm good?

My assumption was that faust's vote on Jimmmm was for the same reasons as mine -- quickly jumping on the first wagon he saw without contributing anything additional to the conversation.

I guess that's a big assumption, but given the timing of the vote, I thought it a fairly obvious explanation, so I didn't read the vote as unexplained or unmotivated.

This is quite the response for such an early vote. Generally it's been my experience that a person using a "scum!me" perspective/narrative/argument/outlook isn't giving a tell - that is, it can come from both scum defending their actions or town genuinely believing that as scum they wouldn't do X (or in your case, "be scared of X").

The thing is, you don't have an established town or scum meta. And as your first game back, the only perspective you would have as town is from a town perspective. So it strikes me as odd that you would jump to a "scum!me" defense... especially so early in.

I was just sort of trying to point out that silverspawn's comment about me being scared scum didn't really make any sense.

Re: my meta.

It's been a few years, but I do remember all the games I played in before, as scum and as town. It's all been coming back to me. In the past I wasn't very helpful day 1 (see my sig) but I think in this game I had so much pent-up excitement about getting started that I'm really throwing myself into it. Į\_(ツ)_/Į
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Galzria on December 13, 2018, 02:40:59 pm
Are we really wanting people to vote more randomly in RVS? Is this somehow a thing?

Eh, I think the way we use RVS is to take it's generic meaning "To create a bunch of seemingly random points of interest" over it's literal meaning "To create a bunch of random points of interest".

As Joth puts it:

Anyway, despite the name, I don't think very many RVS votes are truly random.

RVS gets the game established, and creates a baseline for which to look back - regardless of any actual reasoning. There are small tells around RVS that I find useful later in the game as well, but explaining them in game would be anti-town. Still, in a game where information tends to be limited, rarely does town ever find themselves concerned with information overload, so the more content that can be created, the better.

Also, Vote: Robz for hating D1 and never participating. D1 is as useful, and often moreso than almost any other day as it establishes the baseline for the rest of the game to follow.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 13, 2018, 02:44:20 pm
Also, Vote: Robz for hating D1 and never participating. D1 is as useful, and often moreso than almost any other day as it establishes the baseline for the rest of the game to follow.
And the baseline you seek to establish is policy voting?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on December 13, 2018, 02:45:31 pm
Yeah, I'm on board with RVS, although I don't think I've ever cast a truly random vote and I suspect that's true of plenty of the rest too, and I think that's better. I'm with you on D1 being one of the most useful days.

I was more talking about Faust vs. SS.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Galzria on December 13, 2018, 02:48:12 pm
Why was Jimmmm's unexplained vote for Ashersky bad, but faust's unexplained vote for Jimmmm good?

My assumption was that faust's vote on Jimmmm was for the same reasons as mine -- quickly jumping on the first wagon he saw without contributing anything additional to the conversation.

I guess that's a big assumption, but given the timing of the vote, I thought it a fairly obvious explanation, so I didn't read the vote as unexplained or unmotivated.

* your (silverspawn's) unexplained jumping on the ashersky wagon
* faust's unexplained vote for Jimmmmmm

Ö

The things on that list I find scummy so far:
- Jimmmm's ashersky vote
- silverspawn's ashersky vote

I messed up the names in my question: It should have read:

"Why was Silver's vote on Ashersky bad, but faust's vote on Jimmm good"?

In any case, what I found odd was that you listed both Silver's and Faust's vote as being "unexplained", but only found Silver scummy for it.

Now, in your follow up, you've said that you DIDN'T feel that faust's vote was unexplained. But that's exactly how you characterized your feelings on it at the time.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Galzria on December 13, 2018, 02:51:49 pm
Also, Vote: Robz for hating D1 and never participating. D1 is as useful, and often moreso than almost any other day as it establishes the baseline for the rest of the game to follow.
And the baseline you seek to establish is policy voting?

He's given me no reason to believe he's not scum. That can be said of others, too, mind you - but as Robz won't play D1 unless given a reason, yes, I'm perfectly content with that vote right now.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on December 13, 2018, 03:00:58 pm
I guess there's two ways to read the word "unexplained". It could mean "the person casting this vote didn't explain it" (unexplained1) or "there's no apparent explanation for it" (unexplained2). And I may have been using them a bit interchangeably. In the first half of the post, I was just focused on summarizing the action as unbiasedly as possible, so I was using "unexplained" for any vote that didn't come coupled with an explanation, which is all three votes. But to me, silver and Jimmm's votes for asher are unexplained in the other sense, whereas faust's isn't.

Unexplained1 is not necessarily scummy, though it easily could be.

I find unexplained 2 to be scummy, and here's why: Town should be voting for a person they think is scum and they should be doing it in such a way that other town players are encouraged to join them, in order to get that scum lynched. Voting for someone because they have a wagon isn't that. Voting for someone for no apparent reason isn't that.

Scum, on the other hand, wants to use their vote to facilitate a mislynch, and the sooner the better. Now of course you can WIFOM this all day and many of you are advanced players from whom I would expect more sophisticated scum play, but on balance when I see someone throwing their vote around without explanation, especially to run up an existing wagon, I'm suspicious. Especially on day 1 with nothing to go on.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on December 13, 2018, 03:04:24 pm
Note that since that post I've come to realize that this idea of informational wagons apparently has some currency, which changes my read. The fact that Umbrage, silver, and Jimmmm seem to think that voting for ashersky just to run up a wagon is pro-town, I have to reconsider my read on it as scummy, even though I'm still not really convinced. People have different ideas about what constitutes pro-town day 1 play and that doesn't make them scum.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: silverspawn on December 13, 2018, 03:26:39 pm
Why are you concerned with who people jump on? More specifically, why do you care if somebody votes for Joth? Further, as faust points out, you claim in one post that wagons are pro-town, and then proceed to vote where there are 0 votes currently, instead of either of the two current wagons. Why?

Can you please detail for me your current read on Joth, and why?

It's not the who, it's the how.

Joth's post that got SS' vote was a bit awkward, but in a way that to me seems more like potential-lynchbait-different than scum-different.  I actually agree that it was a weird and kind of useless question but "smells like scared scum" is coming on awfully strong, and in a way that I do think is scummy.

Maybe if you hear my reasoning, you'll change your mind.

LaLight is said to have read every scum game. This is very unusual. joth has been absent for a while and is now coming back. It's easy to see how he could be nervous about someone knowing his meta, and I think "come on, tell me about what makes me scummy" is a very plausible thing for a scum player to do. On the other hand, the town motivation makes less sense, because there's no way LaLight has any solid read on anyone so far.

Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: silverspawn on December 13, 2018, 03:31:28 pm
I find unexplained 2 to be scummy, and here's why: Town should be voting for a person they think is scum and they should be doing it in such a way that other town players are encouraged to join them, in order to get that scum lynched. Voting for someone because they have a wagon isn't that. Voting for someone for no apparent reason isn't that.

Yeah, I don't think this is true. I rarely have a conscious mislynch in mind if I vote as scum, at least if it's day one. I think generally the scum motivation is "look good" and the town motivation is "be pro town" in whatever way.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 13, 2018, 04:02:45 pm
I don't subscribe to whatever reasons joth assumes I had for my Jimmmmm vote.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on December 13, 2018, 04:06:08 pm
Quote
the town motivation is "be pro town"

This is just a tautology. It doesn't mean anything. I'll buy that scum might not have a conscious motivation to mislynch but I think it's pretty uncontroversial to say that town motivation is "lynch scum". That's my motivation anyway.

I don't subscribe to whatever reasons joth assumes I had for my Jimmmmm vote.

Fair enough. Care to share your reasons?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 13, 2018, 04:07:07 pm
I don't subscribe to whatever reasons joth assumes I had for my Jimmmmm vote.

Fair enough. Care to share your reasons?
No.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on December 13, 2018, 04:09:40 pm
Also, Vote: Robz for hating D1 and never participating. D1 is as useful, and often moreso than almost any other day as it establishes the baseline for the rest of the game to follow.
And the baseline you seek to establish is policy voting?

He's given me no reason to believe he's not scum. That can be said of others, too, mind you - but as Robz won't play D1 unless given a reason, yes, I'm perfectly content with that vote right now.

Fair, but I am intending to play this day 1 anyway. Iím going to surprise you!
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on December 13, 2018, 04:11:30 pm
vote: josh for asking this question too early. Smells like scared scum.

Vote: silverspawn since I donít believe this is scummy and Joth is far more easily explained as energetic returning player than scared scum.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Galzria on December 13, 2018, 04:11:57 pm
Also, Vote: Robz for hating D1 and never participating. D1 is as useful, and often moreso than almost any other day as it establishes the baseline for the rest of the game to follow.
And the baseline you seek to establish is policy voting?

He's given me no reason to believe he's not scum. That can be said of others, too, mind you - but as Robz won't play D1 unless given a reason, yes, I'm perfectly content with that vote right now.

Fair, but I am intending to play this day 1 anyway. Iím going to surprise you!

I look forward to it!
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: silverspawn on December 13, 2018, 04:42:34 pm
Quote
the town motivation is "be pro town"

This is just a tautology.

You are fortunate that Awaclus is not in the game, otherwise you'd quickly realize that it isn't a tautology.

But more importantly... I don't get why you say it doesn't mean anything. Being pro town is a fairly specific motivation to have. It can be used to distinguish town from scum. Being obvious doesn't make something meaningless.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: silverspawn on December 13, 2018, 04:44:01 pm
but I think it's pretty uncontroversial to say that town motivation is "lynch scum".

Ultimately, yes. But not necessarily as the immediate goal. The immediate goal could just be to cause activity or drama or reactions or whatever, without intending to lynch someone.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on December 13, 2018, 05:00:33 pm
Why are you concerned with who people jump on? More specifically, why do you care if somebody votes for Joth? Further, as faust points out, you claim in one post that wagons are pro-town, and then proceed to vote where there are 0 votes currently, instead of either of the two current wagons. Why?

Can you please detail for me your current read on Joth, and why?

It's not the who, it's the how.

Joth's post that got SS' vote was a bit awkward, but in a way that to me seems more like potential-lynchbait-different than scum-different.  I actually agree that it was a weird and kind of useless question but "smells like scared scum" is coming on awfully strong, and in a way that I do think is scummy.

Maybe if you hear my reasoning, you'll change your mind.

LaLight is said to have read every scum game. This is very unusual. joth has been absent for a while and is now coming back. It's easy to see how he could be nervous about someone knowing his meta, and I think "come on, tell me about what makes me scummy" is a very plausible thing for a scum player to do. On the other hand, the town motivation makes less sense, because there's no way LaLight has any solid read on anyone so far.


I didn't ask him for solid reads. I asked him if anyone was playing off-meta so far. Which I think is a reasonable thing to ask someone who has read all the games. I absolutely think people can conform to or deviate from their meta in just a few posts. To give a completely hypothetical example, suppose faust's town meta was that he normally wrote long paragraphs explaining each vote. His vote for Jimmmmm with no explanation would then be off-meta.

Speaking of LaLight, they never really answered that question. And even if there wasn't enough info to answer it then, I suspect there is enough to answer it now.

Quote
I think "come on, tell me about what makes me scummy" is a very plausible thing for a scum player to do

I'm learning that you and I have very different ideas about how scum players think and act.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: silverspawn on December 13, 2018, 05:07:31 pm
Regardless of whether it was scummy, I still think answering it is clearly anti town. Wait until scum incriminated themselves, and then tell everyone what their scumtells are.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on December 13, 2018, 07:22:57 pm
Vote Count 1.1

ashersky (1): Jimmmmm
mcmcsalot (1): LaLight
Jimmmmm (2): faust, jotheonah
jotheonah (1): silverspawn
silverspawn (2): UmbrageOfSnow, Robz888
Robz888 (1): Galzria

Not Voting (4): mcmcsalot, DatSwan, ashersky, Dylan32

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
D1 ends at 11am Czech time (5am Forum Time) on Thursday 20th December.

Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: DatSwan on December 13, 2018, 08:00:54 pm
Wow ton of talking so far - i mean all about nonsense obviously but that is to be expected.

Lots of people i have not played with before - hello to all!
Great to have you! Feel free to call me Swan, and i am a ďheĒ. Looks like Galz covered the twinsie claim so thatís that

People i have played with before - good to see you.

I will have limited access from Jan 3 - Jan 8. I will be around holiday time.

Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on December 13, 2018, 08:29:31 pm
I'd argue that liking early wagons is indeed pro-town and not based-on-nothing or scum-indicative.

Can you (and Jimmmm I guess) explain this perspective?

To get the game going. But if you talk about it it ruins it.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 14, 2018, 02:51:48 am
I'd argue that liking early wagons is indeed pro-town and not based-on-nothing or scum-indicative.

Can you (and Jimmmm I guess) explain this perspective?

To get the game going. But if you talk about it it ruins it.
I think joth has done significantly more to get the game going than you so far.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on December 14, 2018, 03:04:13 am
I'll be here soon.

I must warn you guys that my level of activity will be much lower than usual, you could notice that in games I was modding. Little bit life changing events

Talking about metas and me reading everything, I have usually quite bad reads. So far nothing really rubbed me in a wrong way, but I will reread everything closely at some time today
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 14, 2018, 09:07:16 am
Iím caught up, joth and silver looks strongly like town v town.


vote: datswan
Their ďwoah lots going onĒ feels like scum surprised by the amount of discussion vs town. Town is likely to be excited and specific versus scum who would be general and dismissive.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on December 14, 2018, 09:12:44 am
Caught up.

I will be exclusively phone posting this game and probably be accessing once a day.  So thatís that. If I have more time on. Particular day, Iíll try to contribute more.

I like the action so far, feels very three years ago.  All the usual scum vibes from too jokey Galz, too friendly Robz, and too quiet Jimmmmmmm that we usually expect.

That said, Faust is scum here. Meta/serious vote.

vote: faust
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on December 14, 2018, 09:13:31 am
Also good to see mom salon!
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on December 14, 2018, 09:26:48 am
I'd argue that liking early wagons is indeed pro-town and not based-on-nothing or scum-indicative.

Can you (and Jimmmm I guess) explain this perspective?

To get the game going. But if you talk about it it ruins it.

See, this makes no sense to me. If a wagon is to be any use at all, it's so that it can be analyzed. To analyze a wagon usefully, you have to know who got on it for what reasons, so you can determine who's scum. So even accepting that early wagons are useful, I would think that a wagon that you don't discuss -- or that discussion would "ruin" -- would completely negate that usefulness.

Also, I should officially say now that the game is going: I will be V/LA from December 20th to December 29th, on my honeymoon in Germany. There may be a few times I can check in, but the priority has to be quality time with the wife! Hopefully, based on the schedule, some portion of that time will be night, which should mitigate the impact.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 14, 2018, 10:34:44 am
Iím caught up, joth and silver looks strongly like town v town.
Can you explain what gives you this impression?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 14, 2018, 10:35:25 am
Also, I should officially say now that the game is going: I will be V/LA from December 20th to December 29th, on my honeymoon in Germany. There may be a few times I can check in, but the priority has to be quality time with the wife! Hopefully, based on the schedule, some portion of that time will be night, which should mitigate the impact.
Cool! Where in Germany will you be?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on December 14, 2018, 10:38:35 am
Also, Vote: Robz for hating D1 and never participating. D1 is as useful, and often moreso than almost any other day as it establishes the baseline for the rest of the game to follow.
And the baseline you seek to establish is policy voting?

He's given me no reason to believe he's not scum. That can be said of others, too, mind you - but as Robz won't play D1 unless given a reason, yes, I'm perfectly content with that vote right now.

Fair, but I am intending to play this day 1 anyway. Iím going to surprise you!

vote: josh for asking this question too early. Smells like scared scum.

Vote: silverspawn since I donít believe this is scummy and Joth is far more easily explained as energetic returning player than scared scum.

For some reason this feels as alittlebitscummy!Robz. I can't point exactly why
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on December 14, 2018, 10:39:43 am
Iím caught up, joth and silver looks strongly like town v town.


vote: datswan
Their ďwoah lots going onĒ feels like scum surprised by the amount of discussion vs town. Town is likely to be excited and specific versus scum who would be general and dismissive.

This as well seems a little forced
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on December 14, 2018, 10:41:11 am
oh, caught up. I thought there's much more, don't know why. I sense a lot of undercover things by many players, that's cool, but talking about them would ruin it. This is really quite a lineup.

I think I'll stick to my mcmcsalot vote making it less random. Also eager to see what Robz is going to present this D1
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on December 14, 2018, 10:43:51 am
I will be strongly VLA from 30th to 2 (though will be posting) and less VLA till 9th, then no VLA at all
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on December 14, 2018, 10:48:43 am
Also, I should officially say now that the game is going: I will be V/LA from December 20th to December 29th, on my honeymoon in Germany. There may be a few times I can check in, but the priority has to be quality time with the wife! Hopefully, based on the schedule, some portion of that time will be night, which should mitigate the impact.
Cool! Where in Germany will you be?
Munich! I'm open to sightseeing suggestions via PM. :)
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on December 14, 2018, 10:51:21 am

That said, Faust is scum here. Meta/serious vote.

vote: faust

What makes you say that? I was reading slight town on faust.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 14, 2018, 11:08:40 am
Iím caught up, joth and silver looks strongly like town v town.
Can you explain what gives you this impression?

It is a semantic argument where both players are kind of restating their own opinions without addressing/breaking down the other persons argument which I think is towny. Scum argues with the intent of painting the other player as scummy and they are arguing to get to a point of information.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 14, 2018, 11:09:12 am
Iím caught up, joth and silver looks strongly like town v town.


vote: datswan
Their ďwoah lots going onĒ feels like scum surprised by the amount of discussion vs town. Town is likely to be excited and specific versus scum who would be general and dismissive.

This as well seems a little forced

But do you disagree with my thought?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on December 14, 2018, 11:15:41 am
Iím caught up, joth and silver looks strongly like town v town.


vote: datswan
Their ďwoah lots going onĒ feels like scum surprised by the amount of discussion vs town. Town is likely to be excited and specific versus scum who would be general and dismissive.

This as well seems a little forced

But do you disagree with my thought?

I do, actually. There was a lot of posts, when he came, No matter what alignment a person is, they could say woah it's a lot of posts for numerous reasons. Why would scum be surprised about the amount of townies discussion? There's more town people than there's scums. Even given that town would be more specific which is also not really true, or it would be really easy to catch scums.

All in all looks like you tried to develop a read out of nowhere
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on December 14, 2018, 12:00:18 pm
Mcmc is doing his "I am town" analysis of other players, which is good. It means he's town!
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on December 14, 2018, 12:00:38 pm
Look at me, starting conversations of my own volition. I think I should just get the MVP nod right now.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on December 14, 2018, 01:46:23 pm
Look at me, starting conversations of my own volition. I think I should just get the MVP nod right now.

It feels weird not scumreading you and it's making me uncomfortable.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on December 14, 2018, 08:05:29 pm

That said, Faust is scum here. Meta/serious vote.

vote: faust

What makes you say that? I was reading slight town on faust.

A ďslight townĒ reading on Faust is exactly what scum!faust exudes, actually.

Also, I think that while he can always be abrasive, there town!abrasive and scum!abrasive modes that he canít necessarily control.

I also generally pay attention to how many ď?Ē he has in his posts. The more the scummmier.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on December 14, 2018, 08:15:01 pm
We really have to give Faust a day 1 pass, at any rate. Letís not do scumís job for them. If heís alive tomorrowósomething that quite literally almost never happensóIíll reconsider.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: DatSwan on December 14, 2018, 11:27:13 pm
Iím caught up, joth and silver looks strongly like town v town.


vote: datswan
Their ďwoah lots going onĒ feels like scum surprised by the amount of discussion vs town. Town is likely to be excited and specific versus scum who would be general and dismissive.

Iím OMGUSing you for being lazy... which is in itself lazy.. but Iím doing it anyways.

Vote: MCMC
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Dylan32 on December 14, 2018, 11:52:21 pm
We really have to give Faust a day 1 pass, at any rate. Letís not do scumís job for them. If heís alive tomorrowósomething that quite literally almost never happensóIíll reconsider.

This feels lining-up-future-mislynches scummy.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on December 15, 2018, 12:00:13 am
Rereading now. Iím really happy to see that ďtwinclaimĒ is still in the vernacular. I was the original twinclaim that spawned the term (though I wasnít the one who coined it).

Anyway based on my reread Iím kind of OK with my current vote on Jimmm. Heís been just present enough to not get lurker suspicion but absent enough to not get much attention of any other kind. Heís been quick to vote and talk theory but hasnít really offered any reads or anything of substance.

On another note: Robz, why should Faust, or anyone, get a day 1 pass?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Dylan32 on December 15, 2018, 12:14:21 am
Vote: DatSwan for a reason that I'm not gonna share right now.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on December 15, 2018, 01:07:17 am
Anyway based on my reread Iím kind of OK with my current vote on Jimmm. Heís been just present enough to not get lurker suspicion but absent enough to not get much attention of any other kind. Heís been quick to vote and talk theory but hasnít really offered any reads or anything of substance.

Question for you: In my ash vote post I gave a theory reason (wagons are good) and a player-specific reason (wagons on ash are good). Why did you engage with the theory reason but not the player-specific reason?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 15, 2018, 02:21:51 am
Vote: Dylan
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: silverspawn on December 15, 2018, 03:37:53 am
We really have to give Faust a day 1 pass, at any rate. Letís not do scumís job for them. If heís alive tomorrowósomething that quite literally almost never happensóIíll reconsider.

This feels lining-up-future-mislynches scummy.

which is one of these things that scum never does.

I don't scumread joth anymore, really at all. Let's vote: DarSwan
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on December 15, 2018, 09:25:46 am
Anyway based on my reread Iím kind of OK with my current vote on Jimmm. Heís been just present enough to not get lurker suspicion but absent enough to not get much attention of any other kind. Heís been quick to vote and talk theory but hasnít really offered any reads or anything of substance.

Question for you: In my ash vote post I gave a theory reason (wagons are good) and a player-specific reason (wagons on ash are good). Why did you engage with the theory reason but not the player-specific reason?

I gotta read closer. I actually had to go back and look to see what you were talking about. Quote, for convenience:

Vote: ash

Early D1 wagons are good for Town. ash wagons are very good for Town.

I guess I thought it was a glib RVS thing. Like you were jumping on the wagon for a theory reason and also just teasing ash about some meta thing. I have a hunch I might know what you and Umbrage were getting at when you said talking about it ruined it. So .... sorry if I ruined it.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on December 15, 2018, 11:31:49 am
Rereading now. Iím really happy to see that ďtwinclaimĒ is still in the vernacular. I was the original twinclaim that spawned the term (though I wasnít the one who coined it).

Anyway based on my reread Iím kind of OK with my current vote on Jimmm. Heís been just present enough to not get lurker suspicion but absent enough to not get much attention of any other kind. Heís been quick to vote and talk theory but hasnít really offered any reads or anything of substance.

On another note: Robz, why should Faust, or anyone, get a day 1 pass?

Well, Faust is arguably the strongest town player in our party, and scum kill him Night 1 in what seems like a majority of games. So he is sort of a special case.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on December 15, 2018, 11:32:07 am
We really have to give Faust a day 1 pass, at any rate. Letís not do scumís job for them. If heís alive tomorrowósomething that quite literally almost never happensóIíll reconsider.

This feels lining-up-future-mislynches scummy.

It isnít and it doesnít
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on December 15, 2018, 11:47:46 am
Well, Faust is arguably the strongest town player in our party.

I guess Iíll take your for that for now.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 15, 2018, 11:53:12 am
Well, Faust is arguably the strongest town player in our party, and scum kill him Night 1 in what seems like a majority of games. So he is sort of a special case.
A survey of recent games I participated in:

M119: I'm town, killed N1.
M118: I'm town, killed N1.
NM12: I'm town, scum never kills anybody lol
RMM49: I'm town, lynched D5.
M116: I'm town, killed N1.
M115: I'm town, and killed N1.
M113: I'm scum, living through to the end.
RMM42: I'm town and live to the end. [scum NK was nerfed]
M111: I'm town, killed N1.
NM11: I'm town, killed N1.
RMM46: I'm town, killed N1.

So out of my last 10 town games, I've been nightkilled N1 7 times, one game never saw any scum nightkill, and another had a nerfed NK for scum.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on December 15, 2018, 12:06:13 pm
jeez. At some point you have to conclude the scum are doing it on purpose just for the memes.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: silverspawn on December 15, 2018, 12:27:56 pm
NM12: I'm town, scum never kills anybody lol

That was a good game.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on December 15, 2018, 01:51:31 pm
jeez. At some point you have to conclude the scum are doing it on purpose just for the memes.

It's often because he's legitimately good at being town!

On the other end of the spectrum, I'm never night killed, unless I'm a PR or something.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Galzria on December 15, 2018, 02:38:22 pm
At work until 8EST - will catch up then
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on December 15, 2018, 05:58:48 pm
I love how towny people are being right now

Vote: Dylan
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: DatSwan on December 15, 2018, 06:45:10 pm
Vote: DatSwan for a reason that I'm not gonna share right now.

when you feel like telling us which of my 2 total posts so far hit you as skummy - plz let us know.

This feels like you trying to shift onto a wagon with no reason so you can make one up later.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: DatSwan on December 15, 2018, 06:45:40 pm
We really have to give Faust a day 1 pass, at any rate. Letís not do scumís job for them. If heís alive tomorrowósomething that quite literally almost never happensóIíll reconsider.

This feels lining-up-future-mislynches scummy.

which is one of these things that scum never does.

I don't scumread joth anymore, really at all. Let's vote: DarSwan


I am no pirate! (mis-typed my name in the vote)
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on December 15, 2018, 06:49:18 pm
I would love a vote count. Some of these wagons are starting to feel real.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: DatSwan on December 15, 2018, 06:52:17 pm
Swan Count:

ashersky (1): Jimmmmm
mcmcsalot (1): LaLight
Swan (3): MCMC, Dylan, Silver,
Faust (1): Ashes
MCMC (1): Swan
Dylan (2): Faust, Snow
Jimmmmm (1): , jotheonah
silverspawn (1): , Robz888
Robz888 (1): Galzria
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: DatSwan on December 15, 2018, 06:53:33 pm
Also after finally having time to sit down and read I am at the same point I always am on D1s... which is like no where.... but MCMC's original thing I talked about still seems strange to me so I am staying there for now.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on December 15, 2018, 07:05:02 pm
Thanks DatSwan but you have mcmc twice on yours. So itís more like:

ashersky (1): Jimmmmm
mcmcsalot (2): LaLight, DatSwan
Jimmmmm (1):, jotheonah
silverspawn (1):  Robz888
Robz888 (1): Galzria
DatSwan (3): mcmcsalot, Dylan, silver
faust (1): ashersky
Dylan (2): faust, Umbrage

So only L-4. Anybody want to try and sway me to either the Dylan or DatSwan wagons? Both seem possibly scummy to me.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on December 15, 2018, 07:06:35 pm
I feel like having trouble getting Day 1 reads tends to be a self-fulfilling prophecy: people who talk a lot about lack of information Day 1 have trouble seeing information worth voting over on Day 1, I think in large part because they don't think they can find it.

No, Day 1 cases don't have as much behind them as later day cases, but they aren't based on nothing.

I love that these are the wagons, while I think Dylan is more likely to be scum, I have no reason to think you are town, DatSwan, and I have a mess of townreads.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on December 15, 2018, 07:15:36 pm
Joth:

We really have to give Faust a day 1 pass, at any rate. Letís not do scumís job for them. If heís alive tomorrowósomething that quite literally almost never happensóIíll reconsider.

This feels lining-up-future-mislynches scummy.

Dylan doesn't follow this up with a vote, he votes for Swan instead, almost certainly an easier fight than Robz (no offense Swan), plus the lining-up-future-mislynches thing is an easy argument to make to be seen to be having reads while not really being a thing, basically any comments about future days can be lining up mislynches.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on December 15, 2018, 08:59:47 pm
Vote Count 1.2

ashersky (1): Jimmmmm
mcmcsalot (1): LaLight
jotheonah (1): silverspawn
Jimmmmm (1): jotheonah
Robz888 (1): Galzria
silverspawn (1): Robz888
DatSwan (2): mcmcsalot, Dylan32
faust (1): ashersky
Dylan32 (2): faust, UmbrageOfSnow
Not Voting (1): DatSwan

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
D1 ends at 11am Czech time (5am Forum Time) on Thursday 20th December.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on December 15, 2018, 10:09:34 pm
There are some discrepancies between my vote count and the official one. Possibly because ďDarswanĒ wasnít counted.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: DatSwan on December 15, 2018, 10:10:33 pm
Thanks DatSwan but you have mcmc twice on yours. So itís more like:

ashersky (1): Jimmmmm
mcmcsalot (2): LaLight, DatSwan
Jimmmmm (1):, jotheonah
silverspawn (1):  Robz888
Robz888 (1): Galzria
DatSwan (3): mcmcsalot, Dylan, silver
faust (1): ashersky
Dylan (2): faust, Umbrage

So only L-4. Anybody want to try and sway me to either the Dylan or DatSwan wagons? Both seem possibly scummy to me.

Unintentional sorry - i did it by hand.

Is there a reason you think i am skummy other than lack of participation thus far?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: DatSwan on December 15, 2018, 10:11:41 pm
There are some discrepancies between my vote count and the official one. Possibly because ďDarswanĒ wasnít counted.

Also silver isnít on me bc they spelled my name wrong in vote. I am ďattemptedĒ at (3)
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: DatSwan on December 15, 2018, 10:13:08 pm
Joth:

We really have to give Faust a day 1 pass, at any rate. Letís not do scumís job for them. If heís alive tomorrowósomething that quite literally almost never happensóIíll reconsider.

This feels lining-up-future-mislynches scummy.

Dylan doesn't follow this up with a vote, he votes for Swan instead, almost certainly an easier fight than Robz (no offense Swan), plus the lining-up-future-mislynches thing is an easy argument to make to be seen to be having reads while not really being a thing, basically any comments about future days can be lining up mislynches.

No offense taken - i donít think we have played together before. Once i get into it you will wish i would just stfu. Savor the silence.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: DatSwan on December 15, 2018, 10:19:41 pm
I feel like having trouble getting Day 1 reads tends to be a self-fulfilling prophecy: people who talk a lot about lack of information Day 1 have trouble seeing information worth voting over on Day 1, I think in large part because they don't think they can find it.

No, Day 1 cases don't have as much behind them as later day cases, but they aren't based on nothing.

I love that these are the wagons, while I think Dylan is more likely to be scum, I have no reason to think you are town, DatSwan, and I have a mess of townreads.

Donít answer this just consider the question - who do you currently actually consider to be town rn? This comment is just giving you the quote option to go back and vote for either of us. Which is messing with my growing sr on dylan
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Dylan32 on December 16, 2018, 01:13:11 am
Ok, I can give a brief reason for my vote, without saying exactly what I was looking for. The vote wasn't based on anything Swan had said this game. He is one of the people that I played with in my last game. I had a pretty strong read that was fortunately right last game, so I wanted to look for something here.  I've seen enough that it is now actually a scumread, but I'm not gonna say what it is cuz it would only help scum you.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: silverspawn on December 16, 2018, 03:01:15 am
I would love a vote count. Some of these wagons are starting to feel real.
When I read this I suddenly remembered I dream I had tonight ( just woke up ). I was reading this game and there was no vote count in a while, so I wanted to post one. I have this tool that automates them, but I think there are players in here that i don't know yet, so I was going to check into the file of player names and nicknames. Before I opened it I was like "it would suck if this file was lost somehow, I'm going to make a backup copy right now"; then I opened it and it the content was already lost, somehow  :'(

This clearly proves that I'm town because I subconsciously wanted to be helpful.

Anyway. Space uses a similar tool which is why votes won't be detected if they're misspelled. But now I actually like vote: Dylan32 better. Their avatar looks like theiy're hiding something.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 16, 2018, 03:21:01 am
Anyway. Space uses a similar tool which is why votes won't be detected if they're misspelled. But now I actually like vote: Dylan32 better. Their avatar looks like theiy're hiding something.
Going by avatars, I would vote joth. He seems like he's presenting himself as something he's not.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 16, 2018, 03:23:33 am
Ok, I can give a brief reason for my vote, without saying exactly what I was looking for. The vote wasn't based on anything Swan had said this game. He is one of the people that I played with in my last game. I had a pretty strong read that was fortunately right last game, so I wanted to look for something here.  I've seen enough that it is now actually a scumread, but I'm not gonna say what it is cuz it would only help scum you.
So you think whatever it is you found wil help scum!Swan (why? If it's a scumtell, it seems he apparently gave it away) but it will do nothing to help the rest of town seeing that Swan is scum?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on December 16, 2018, 06:11:02 am
You can share the scumtell...itís sort of fair play to only use it once against a player.

Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on December 16, 2018, 10:48:38 am
Anyway. Space uses a similar tool which is why votes won't be detected if they're misspelled. But now I actually like vote: Dylan32 better. Their avatar looks like theiy're hiding something.
Going by avatars, I would vote joth. He seems like he's presenting himself as something he's not.

My job is trending more and more toward Bureaucrat every promotion.

Oh wait, you meant the Robz disguise. I think I changed that a long time ago for that bastard game where we were all robz and never changed it back.

Ok, I can give a brief reason for my vote, without saying exactly what I was looking for. The vote wasn't based on anything Swan had said this game. He is one of the people that I played with in my last game. I had a pretty strong read that was fortunately right last game, so I wanted to look for something here.  I've seen enough that it is now actually a scumread, but I'm not gonna say what it is cuz it would only help scum you.
So you think whatever it is you found wil help scum!Swan (why? If it's a scumtell, it seems he apparently gave it away) but it will do nothing to help the rest of town seeing that Swan is scum?

Yeah Dylan, I think you should tell us what you have at this point. To give you a little additional incentive:

Vote: Dylan

I find the case Umbrage gave to be convincing. I do not approve of avatar-based voting.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on December 16, 2018, 10:49:49 am
I was coming here to vote for Dylan even before this recent activity. Vote: Dylan
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on December 16, 2018, 11:20:37 am
Ok, thatís L-2. Whatís our policy on claims?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on December 16, 2018, 11:37:44 am
Ok, thatís L-2. Whatís our policy on claims?

Well, we should let Dylan claim if he gets to L-1. Hammering him without giving opportunity for this would be extremely scummy.

I am a fan of short Day 1s, though I am pretty much alone in this.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on December 16, 2018, 11:54:48 am
Itís really nice that we donít seem to have any straight up lurkers in this town. But I would like to hear more form LaLight and mcmc and Galz about how things stand as of now.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Dylan32 on December 16, 2018, 12:14:33 pm
Ok, so as town last game, as far as I remember the only time DatSwan directly responded to a vote on himself was the like the last one of the game when he was thinking the person who cast the vote was the leading wagon and seemed at that point most likely to be the final scum. Town!swan seemed to just ignore the votes or pressure while, Swan here pretty directly and quickly pushed back almost immediately with both votes. I will grant the very beginning of the last game could have been more busy irl for Swan, cuz they weren't exactly around a ton early on, but later on the pattern held.  Considering I've played 3 games or less with probably half of this lineup, that's as strong of a grounds as I have for any scumread so far.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Dylan32 on December 16, 2018, 12:20:19 pm
Didn't really want to share that until we got a bigger sample this game since 3 votes isn't exactly conclusive, but whatever.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on December 16, 2018, 02:53:20 pm
I am a fan of short Day 1s, though I am pretty much alone in this.

I'm with you on this, although I wasn't always I think.  We shouldn't always wait until deadline, and that tends to be a very strong impulse.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on December 16, 2018, 03:01:24 pm
Itís really nice that we donít seem to have any straight up lurkers in this town. But I would like to hear more form LaLight and mcmc and Galz about how things stand as of now.

Yeah, I'm waiting for their promised catchup posts, and I do think it would be bad to end the day before that point.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 16, 2018, 03:52:44 pm
Itís really nice that we donít seem to have any straight up lurkers in this town. But I would like to hear more form LaLight and mcmc and Galz about how things stand as of now.

Yeah, I'm waiting for their promised catchup posts, and I do think it would be bad to end the day before that point.
I take it that Dylan's explanation hasn't swayed you?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on December 16, 2018, 04:12:56 pm
As far as D1 cases go, not bad at all.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on December 16, 2018, 05:17:53 pm
As far as D1 cases go, not bad at all.

Dylan's case on Datswan, you mean?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: DatSwan on December 16, 2018, 06:10:20 pm
Ok, so as town last game, as far as I remember the only time DatSwan directly responded to a vote on himself was the like the last one of the game when he was thinking the person who cast the vote was the leading wagon and seemed at that point most likely to be the final scum. Town!swan seemed to just ignore the votes or pressure while, Swan here pretty directly and quickly pushed back almost immediately with both votes. I will grant the very beginning of the last game could have been more busy irl for Swan, cuz they weren't exactly around a ton early on, but later on the pattern held.  Considering I've played 3 games or less with probably half of this lineup, that's as strong of a grounds as I have for any scumread so far.

I wasn't the other wagon at the end of the game. It was Joseph and MCMC and I was pushing Awaclus. Also, even if it was me, you are attempted to compare a Day 4 play to a Day 1 play... which, in your words, is kind of weak.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on December 16, 2018, 07:16:12 pm
Vote: DatSwan

This is looking more and more like a better lynch.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on December 16, 2018, 07:19:20 pm
Vote Count 1.3

ashersky (1): Jimmmmm
mcmcsalot (1): LaLight
Robz888 (1): Galzria
DatSwan (3): mcmcsalot, Dylan32, jotheonah
faust (1): ashersky
Dylan32 (4): faust, UmbrageOfSnow, silverspawn, Robz888

Not Voting (1): DatSwan

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
D1 ends at 11am Czech time (5am Forum Time) on Thursday 20th December.

NOTE: Three votes have been rejected by my vote counter so far: "josh", "DarSwan" and "MCMC". The last is arguable, though I think it's definitely weird to all-caps-ify a nickname based on a name that has no upper-case characters. I have just been mulling over adding it to the alias list, but to do so now would make VCs 1.2 incorrect/inconsistent with VC1.3, so I'm not going to.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: DatSwan on December 16, 2018, 08:15:18 pm
Vote: DatSwan

This is looking more and more like a better lynch.

I disagree. Why do you think that.
When did you first start thinking I would be a good lynch, and what happened since that point to make you think it is a better idea now?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on December 16, 2018, 08:41:54 pm
Vote: DatSwan

This is looking more and more like a better lynch.

I disagree. Why do you think that.
When did you first start thinking I would be a good lynch, and what happened since that point to make you think it is a better idea now?

The case against Dylan was based on a comment about Robz that was followed up by an unexplained vote on you. He's explained that vote now and it makes sense to me, as does his reason for not explaining it. So I've soured on that wagon.

Meanwhile, I've found that cases based on defensiveness -- especially off-meta defensiveness -- are often good day one cases. Playing the game as scum is just more stressful, the stakes are higher if you get lynched, and it's hard to resist fighting against every vote against you and feeling like you're in more danger than you actually are -- even if you're aware of the possibility that it's a tell. Which isn't to say that town don't get defensive too, especially at 4 or 5 votes, but scum are, on balance, more likely to get more defensive sooner.

And then when I look back at your posts, as Umbrage said, I have no particular reason to believe you're town.

And then there's this response to Dylan's case:

Ok, so as town last game, as far as I remember the only time DatSwan directly responded to a vote on himself was the like the last one of the game when he was thinking the person who cast the vote was the leading wagon and seemed at that point most likely to be the final scum. Town!swan seemed to just ignore the votes or pressure while, Swan here pretty directly and quickly pushed back almost immediately with both votes. I will grant the very beginning of the last game could have been more busy irl for Swan, cuz they weren't exactly around a ton early on, but later on the pattern held.  Considering I've played 3 games or less with probably half of this lineup, that's as strong of a grounds as I have for any scumread so far.

I wasn't the other wagon at the end of the game. It was Joseph and MCMC and I was pushing Awaclus. Also, even if it was me, you are attempted to compare a Day 4 play to a Day 1 play... which, in your words, is kind of weak.

Now I'm not familiar with the game in question, and perhaps my next step should be to look over it. But even without that knowledge to me, your reply seems like a willful misunderstanding of his case. Dylan isn't "comparing a Day 4 play to a Day 1 play". He's saying that in that game, as town, you didn't react to a vote on you UNTIL Day 4. So he's comparing Day 1 play there to Day 1 play here, and only referring to Day 4 to emphasize his point, but you're twisting it up to make his case seem worse than it actually is. Which is a scummy way to defend yourself.

On a similar note, you say "I wasn't the other wagon at the end of the game." But Dylan didn't say you were. He said "the only time DatSwan directly responded to a vote on himself was the like the last one of the game when he was thinking the person who cast the vote was the leading wagon." So again, not refuting what he said but mischaracterizing it.

I think I'm going to go browse that game -- Towny Mafia, right? -- and see if I agree with Dylan's characterization or with yours.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: DatSwan on December 16, 2018, 08:42:36 pm
So I am not going to go back and quote post every single game that refutes the concept of me directly dealing with cases made on me when I am Town. But in the previous 4 games I have been skum and town. In the instances where I was Town, here are the two games where I do the exactly what Dylan is claiming I would not do as town. Feel free to read back on me all the way to M105 (first game)... it is littered with continuing support of this.


1) M118 - I am Town. Galz votes for me and I immediately engage him in a lengthy 1-on-1, which includes me voting for him.
vote: Datswan


2) M117 - I am Town. This is the beginning of Day 2 where a case is attempting to be built on me and I directly refute it all the way from the start, up until my mis-lynch.
Wasnít asked or me so i am not answering the question per se - but i would like to point out this is a faulty silogism. One could absolutely assume that ďif player A flips skum, they also think it makes Player B look skummy, while simotainiously assuming if Player A flips town it does not mean anything in regards to Player B.Ē

No. You can absolutely not correctly do this, under no circumstances, never ever ever ever. if A coming true is evidence for B, then A coming false must be evidence against B. This is provable from first principles. See here.. (https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/jiBFC7DcCrZjGmZnJ/conservation-of-expected-evidence)

This is a game with interactions and variables. Every interaction is at a minimum a two way street. It is not a math problem. I am not arguing with youíre defn of the theory, just the application of it here.


Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: DatSwan on December 16, 2018, 08:43:18 pm
Vote: DatSwan

This is looking more and more like a better lynch.

I disagree. Why do you think that.
When did you first start thinking I would be a good lynch, and what happened since that point to make you think it is a better idea now?

The case against Dylan was based on a comment about Robz that was followed up by an unexplained vote on you. He's explained that vote now and it makes sense to me, as does his reason for not explaining it. So I've soured on that wagon.

Meanwhile, I've found that cases based on defensiveness -- especially off-meta defensiveness -- are often good day one cases. Playing the game as scum is just more stressful, the stakes are higher if you get lynched, and it's hard to resist fighting against every vote against you and feeling like you're in more danger than you actually are -- even if you're aware of the possibility that it's a tell. Which isn't to say that town don't get defensive too, especially at 4 or 5 votes, but scum are, on balance, more likely to get more defensive sooner.

And then when I look back at your posts, as Umbrage said, I have no particular reason to believe you're town.

And then there's this response to Dylan's case:

Ok, so as town last game, as far as I remember the only time DatSwan directly responded to a vote on himself was the like the last one of the game when he was thinking the person who cast the vote was the leading wagon and seemed at that point most likely to be the final scum. Town!swan seemed to just ignore the votes or pressure while, Swan here pretty directly and quickly pushed back almost immediately with both votes. I will grant the very beginning of the last game could have been more busy irl for Swan, cuz they weren't exactly around a ton early on, but later on the pattern held.  Considering I've played 3 games or less with probably half of this lineup, that's as strong of a grounds as I have for any scumread so far.

I wasn't the other wagon at the end of the game. It was Joseph and MCMC and I was pushing Awaclus. Also, even if it was me, you are attempted to compare a Day 4 play to a Day 1 play... which, in your words, is kind of weak.

Now I'm not familiar with the game in question, and perhaps my next step should be to look over it. But even without that knowledge to me, your reply seems like a willful misunderstanding of his case. Dylan isn't "comparing a Day 4 play to a Day 1 play". He's saying that in that game, as town, you didn't react to a vote on you UNTIL Day 4. So he's comparing Day 1 play there to Day 1 play here, and only referring to Day 4 to emphasize his point, but you're twisting it up to make his case seem worse than it actually is. Which is a scummy way to defend yourself.

On a similar note, you say "I wasn't the other wagon at the end of the game." But Dylan didn't say you were. He said "the only time DatSwan directly responded to a vote on himself was the like the last one of the game when he was thinking the person who cast the vote was the leading wagon." So again, not refuting what he said but mischaracterizing it.

I think I'm going to go browse that game -- Towny Mafia, right? -- and see if I agree with Dylan's characterization or with yours.


please read PPE post. If you need more games I can bring them up it if absolutely required, but I would appreciate it if you could just do it yourself.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on December 16, 2018, 09:26:38 pm
Alright. I just skimmed M119. And it took me 40 minutes, so sorry, I'm not going to skim M118 and M117 too. I'm not LaLight.

(Speaking of which prod request: lalight-- he hasn't posted since the 14th at 11 am)

But looking at M119, Dylan's case is accurate, if a bit misleading. DatSwan basically never defends himself all game, but also he doesn't get voted for all game more than a handful of times, and as far as I can tell never had two votes on him at once.

Nonetheless, I think I'm comfortable with my vote. His town play in that game feels very different than his play in this game in more ways than just defensiveness or lack thereof. And he has not addressed the substance of my last post, despite quoting it.

Like I said, I'm not going to go down the rabbit hole of rereading every game DatSwan has been in, but those of you who have been around for more of them, I'll certainly listen if you think I'm off base. I am going to shut up for a while and let other people catch up and respond.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: DatSwan on December 16, 2018, 10:15:00 pm
Alright. I just skimmed M119. And it took me 40 minutes, so sorry, I'm not going to skim M118 and M117 too. I'm not LaLight.

(Speaking of which prod request: lalight-- he hasn't posted since the 14th at 11 am)

But looking at M119, Dylan's case is accurate, if a bit misleading. DatSwan basically never defends himself all game, but also he doesn't get voted for all game more than a handful of times, and as far as I can tell never had two votes on him at once.

Nonetheless, I think I'm comfortable with my vote. His town play in that game feels very different than his play in this game in more ways than just defensiveness or lack thereof. And he has not addressed the substance of my last post, despite quoting it.

Like I said, I'm not going to go down the rabbit hole of rereading every game DatSwan has been in, but those of you who have been around for more of them, I'll certainly listen if you think I'm off base. I am going to shut up for a while and let other people catch up and respond.

Iíve been around for all of them - you should listen to me.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: DatSwan on December 16, 2018, 10:25:15 pm
Also you said it yourself - i never defended myself bc i was never threatened with actually being lynched. When i responded to this i had half the votes on me already since i last logged in and had zero. Who wouldnít defend themselves?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Dylan32 on December 17, 2018, 12:23:31 am
Also you said it yourself - i never defended myself bc i was never threatened with actually being lynched. When i responded to this i had half the votes on me already since i last logged in and had zero. Who wouldnít defend themselves?

Actually, you only had one vote on you (mcmc), then you self-admitedly OMGUSed him "for being lazy," and then a few posts later and I voted, and you responded to my vote also. You could argue that mcmc's one vote there didn't really have you in any danger, so why respond at all, or at least why feel the need to call out the vote as lazy and return the favor? So you can't say you woke up and suddenly had a lot more votes on you before you responded.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Dylan32 on December 17, 2018, 12:23:57 am
To be clear, I was just referring to this game, not the last one.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Dylan32 on December 17, 2018, 12:30:46 am
There's also a difference between responding to a vote that doesn't have or doesn't seem like it has much to it (which is where I admittedly should have just kept my mouth shut and voted without saying anything at all) and rebutting an actual stated case. I think most people would react to specific cases against them, but as scum would feel more pressure to react to every (or at least most) vote(s). I'm not claiming every scum would do that, mind you, but the pressure would likely still be there in the back of their mind moreso than in their town games.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 17, 2018, 12:56:05 am
Nonetheless, I think I'm comfortable with my vote. His town play in that game feels very different than his play in this game in more ways than just defensiveness or lack thereof. And he has not addressed the substance of my last post, despite quoting it.
Which ways?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 17, 2018, 01:06:43 am
Meanwhile, I've found that cases based on defensiveness -- especially off-meta defensiveness -- are often good day one cases.
I strongly disagree. Being defensive and challenging votes helps keep the game active and is good pro-town play. I have seen scum trying to ignore votes on them way more often because they don't want to draw additional attention to themselves. Plus I support DatSwan in that this isn't off-meta for him.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on December 17, 2018, 02:34:17 am
Hi guys, sorry for the weekends, signature alert
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on December 17, 2018, 02:37:02 am
I'm sorry, but I feel like both Dylan and DatSwan wagons are misleading
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on December 17, 2018, 02:38:38 am
looking at the players list it seems to me we have a real strong scumteam. And actually that said, I'd like to vote: ash if mcmc's wagon for some reason doesn't gain support. You should've done it at least for pressure, guys, mcmc's play this Day is so suspicious
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on December 17, 2018, 02:40:50 am
I think this is quite transparent why I am voting ash
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 17, 2018, 02:42:59 am
looking at the players list it seems to me we have a real strong scumteam. And actually that said, I'd like to vote: ash if mcmc's wagon for some reason doesn't gain support. You should've done it at least for pressure, guys, mcmc's play this Day is so suspicious
How does the player list suggest a strong scumteam to you? Can you also detail what you mean about mcmc? I'm afraid your original post didn't quite convince me:

vote: mcmcsalot, he's always scum

And is there another reason to vote for ash beside your assertion that there is a strong scumteam?

PPE: Not to me.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on December 17, 2018, 03:50:20 am
looking at the players list it seems to me we have a real strong scumteam. And actually that said, I'd like to vote: ash if mcmc's wagon for some reason doesn't gain support. You should've done it at least for pressure, guys, mcmc's play this Day is so suspicious
How does the player list suggest a strong scumteam to you? Can you also detail what you mean about mcmc? I'm afraid your original post didn't quite convince me:

vote: mcmcsalot, he's always scum

And is there another reason to vote for ash beside your assertion that there is a strong scumteam?

PPE: Not to me.

I think mcmc's initial vote for DatSwan was forced as if he was trying to participate seriously taking the RVS post and making it a scumread.

See:

Iím caught up, joth and silver looks strongly like town v town.


vote: datswan
Their ďwoah lots going onĒ feels like scum surprised by the amount of discussion vs town. Town is likely to be excited and specific versus scum who would be general and dismissive.

This as well seems a little forced

But do you disagree with my thought?

I do, actually. There was a lot of posts, when he came, No matter what alignment a person is, they could say woah it's a lot of posts for numerous reasons. Why would scum be surprised about the amount of townies discussion? There's more town people than there's scums. Even given that town would be more specific which is also not really true, or it would be really easy to catch scums.

All in all looks like you tried to develop a read out of nowhere

I am voting for ash, because he didn't come up with some crazy plan still and overall his posts lack content, as for I usually remember of ash.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on December 17, 2018, 03:53:55 am
How does the player list suggest a strong scumteam to you?

well, I am not scum. All the oher players in the list are very strong players, especially when scums: (here I sterted listing everyone I am afraid to be scum and then I just copied the whole list). That's the reason. Of course it makes town strong as well, but I feel like there is such a huge amount of WIFOM that it's actually isn't worth to talk about, but I am answering your question
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: silverspawn on December 17, 2018, 04:15:47 am
I'm sorry, but I feel like both Dylan and DatSwan wagons are misleading

Agreed. I'm not buying into any of the cases that have been made so far, including my own.

vote: ash
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on December 17, 2018, 08:02:14 am
hey all. Just popping in to say that I'm going to need to stay away for probably all day today. Too much to do at work to fall into the forum mafia wormhole.

Nonetheless, I think I'm comfortable with my vote. His town play in that game feels very different than his play in this game in more ways than just defensiveness or lack thereof. And he has not addressed the substance of my last post, despite quoting it.
Which ways?

I'll just do this now because I hate to leave direct questions to me unanswered.

He just reads completely different. In that game, he pops in very occasionally, but whenever he does it's to do some serious high-effort scumhunting posts. This game his posts were mostly low-effort contentless posts until he started defending himself, when his posts started to get long and intricate and frequent. Skim it yourself and see.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on December 17, 2018, 08:27:37 am
This is my own setup.  Itís specifically made to resist town plans.

Also, lack of content was announced from the beginning.  Iím a different player nowadays, activity/life wise.

Re: Robz, yes.

Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on December 17, 2018, 08:28:58 am
Also, scum points for LL for the lazy ďno planĒ vote.

vote: ss for the even lazier follow.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 17, 2018, 09:09:26 am
I think this is quite transparent why I am voting ash
Why did you write this rather than an explanation of your vote?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on December 17, 2018, 09:10:48 am
I think this is quite transparent why I am voting ash
Why did you write this rather than an explanation of your vote?

well, because it's always better to withhold information to draw any kind of reactions rather than just saying things, in my opinion
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 17, 2018, 09:15:26 am
I think this is quite transparent why I am voting ash
Why did you write this rather than an explanation of your vote?

well, because it's always better to withhold information to draw any kind of reactions rather than just saying things, in my opinion
So how do you think our little exchange where you withheld the information only to reveal it in literally your next post helped the town effort? I know that withholding information can be good, but I don't understand why you think that would apply in this case.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on December 17, 2018, 10:17:49 am
I think this is quite transparent why I am voting ash
Why did you write this rather than an explanation of your vote?

well, because it's always better to withhold information to draw any kind of reactions rather than just saying things, in my opinion
So how do you think our little exchange where you withheld the information only to reveal it in literally your next post helped the town effort? I know that withholding information can be good, but I don't understand why you think that would apply in this case.

Well, my little plan was for someone to play along (thatís why there was really some rason behind my words) and maybe make ash nervous and see the reaction, but when I got a direct question, i thought it would be much better just to answer it so the point is moot.

vote: mcmc
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: silverspawn on December 17, 2018, 12:23:04 pm
Right right I shouldn't blindly follow LaLight's vote on ash. vote: mcmc. See, I did better!
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 17, 2018, 12:45:47 pm
Iím caught up. I agree that datswans defensiveness has felt scummy. But Faustís post about scum wanting to not combat votes they receive is very true, it happens all the time. I donít like how quickly the Dylan wagon grew and for the reasons. It was almost a mix of scum reads and pressure votes to reveal his datswan scum tell.

I really want to vote lalight which means heís probably town.

Actually vote: silverspawn I donít like his Dylan vote and his jokey ďI donít like my own caseĒ comment is scummy.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on December 17, 2018, 12:57:09 pm
Vote Count 1.4

ashersky (1): Jimmmmm
mcmcsalot (2): Lalight, silverspawn
Robz888 (1): Galzria
DatSwan (2): Dylan32, jotheonah
Dylan32 (3): faust, UmbrageOfSnow, Robz888
silverspawn (2): ashersky, mcmcsalot

Not Voting (1): DatSwan

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
D1 ends at 11am Czech time (5am Forum Time) on Thursday 20th December.

Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: silverspawn on December 17, 2018, 01:46:55 pm
Actually vote: silverspawn I donít like his Dylan vote and his jokey ďI donít like my own caseĒ comment is scummy.

I was not joking. I made a case questioning joth's town motviation, had a chat with him, and concluded that he just thinks differently about the game and what he said was pretty much no evidence.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: silverspawn on December 17, 2018, 01:53:09 pm
@joth, is 'he' the right pronoun?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on December 17, 2018, 02:08:02 pm
@joth, is 'he' the right pronoun?

It is, but thanks for asking!
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on December 17, 2018, 03:00:49 pm
My reason for voting Dylan wasn't because of the lack of explanation for the Swan vote, it was for the shading of Robz and then throwing the vote elsewhere. (Although pressure was certainly another bonus concern.)

@mcmcsalot, faust, Joth: were you guys (pretty sure you are all guys, apologies if wrong) misunderstanding my reasoning?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 17, 2018, 04:16:01 pm
My reason for voting Dylan wasn't because of the lack of explanation for the Swan vote, it was for the shading of Robz and then throwing the vote elsewhere. (Although pressure was certainly another bonus concern.)

@mcmcsalot, faust, Joth: were you guys (pretty sure you are all guys, apologies if wrong) misunderstanding my reasoning?

Your vote had a great reason and I find you towny for it. It was the following votes that I found scummy.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on December 17, 2018, 04:34:25 pm
Iím caught up. I agree that datswans defensiveness has felt scummy. But Faustís post about scum wanting to not combat votes they receive is very true, it happens all the time. I donít like how quickly the Dylan wagon grew and for the reasons. It was almost a mix of scum reads and pressure votes to reveal his datswan scum tell.

I really want to vote lalight which means heís probably town.

Actually vote: silverspawn I donít like his Dylan vote and his jokey ďI donít like my own caseĒ comment is scummy.

I agree with all of this except the Dylan wagon, the Dylan wagon was fine.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on December 17, 2018, 08:02:59 pm
Looking at what seem to have been the major lynch candidates, I think mcmc and Dylan are scummyish and DatSwan is Towny.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on December 17, 2018, 08:56:12 pm
Looking at what seem to have been the major lynch candidates, I think mcmc and Dylan are scummyish and DatSwan is Towny.

And yet your vote remains on ashersky.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on December 17, 2018, 09:51:52 pm
Looking at what seem to have been the major lynch candidates, I think mcmc and Dylan are scummyish and DatSwan is Towny.

And yet your vote remains on ashersky.

Always a good lynch.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on December 17, 2018, 10:52:48 pm
Vote: Jimmmmm. Never should have moved it.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on December 17, 2018, 11:38:16 pm
Vote: Jimmmmm. Never should have moved it.

I guess you forgot to bold? Is this because you actually think I'm scum or because my last comment annoyed you?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 18, 2018, 03:34:11 am
I agree with all of this except the Dylan wagon, the Dylan wagon was fine.
They can't all be the best wagon ever.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 18, 2018, 03:35:48 am
My reason for voting Dylan wasn't because of the lack of explanation for the Swan vote, it was for the shading of Robz and then throwing the vote elsewhere. (Although pressure was certainly another bonus concern.)

@mcmcsalot, faust, Joth: were you guys (pretty sure you are all guys, apologies if wrong) misunderstanding my reasoning?
I don't think I was. It is still possible that Dylan's subsequent explanation of his vote convinced you that he's town even if you voted him originally for some other reason.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 18, 2018, 03:37:08 am
Looking at what seem to have been the major lynch candidates, I think mcmc and Dylan are scummyish and DatSwan is Towny.
Any reason you put down mcmc as major lynch candidate and not silver (who has the same number of votes)?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 18, 2018, 03:40:24 am
Anyways my vote on Dylan has outlived its usefulness. Vote: mcmc
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on December 18, 2018, 06:20:05 am
Looking at what seem to have been the major lynch candidates, I think mcmc and Dylan are scummyish and DatSwan is Towny.
Any reason you put down mcmc as major lynch candidate and not silver (who has the same number of votes)?

No. I'll have a look at silver.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on December 18, 2018, 09:19:40 am
I think I'm still happy with my vote on Dylan. I am realizing Umbrage is quite an under scrutinized player today.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: silverspawn on December 18, 2018, 09:35:23 am
Iím caught up. I agree that datswans defensiveness has felt scummy. But Faustís post about scum wanting to not combat votes they receive is very true, it happens all the time. I donít like how quickly the Dylan wagon grew and for the reasons. It was almost a mix of scum reads and pressure votes to reveal his datswan scum tell.

I really want to vote lalight which means heís probably town.

Actually vote: silverspawn I donít like his Dylan vote and his jokey ďI donít like my own caseĒ comment is scummy.

I agree with all of this except the Dylan wagon, the Dylan wagon was fine.

If you agree with that, it implies that you have some kind of problem with the explanation I gave above, because as I see it, the thing on me is just a point of confusion. So what's wrong with my explanation?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on December 18, 2018, 09:53:12 am
Vote: Jimmmmm. Never should have moved it.

I guess you forgot to bold? Is this because you actually think I'm scum or because my last comment annoyed you?

I donít vote for people unless I think theyíre scum. vote: jimmmm

Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on December 18, 2018, 11:27:49 am
Iím caught up. I agree that datswans defensiveness has felt scummy. But Faustís post about scum wanting to not combat votes they receive is very true, it happens all the time. I donít like how quickly the Dylan wagon grew and for the reasons. It was almost a mix of scum reads and pressure votes to reveal his datswan scum tell.

I really want to vote lalight which means heís probably town.

Actually vote: silverspawn I donít like his Dylan vote and his jokey ďI donít like my own caseĒ comment is scummy.

I agree with all of this except the Dylan wagon, the Dylan wagon was fine.

If you agree with that, it implies that you have some kind of problem with the explanation I gave above, because as I see it, the thing on me is just a point of confusion. So what's wrong with my explanation?

Your jokey "I don't like my own case" rings scummy to me, as it did to mcmc.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on December 18, 2018, 11:34:58 am
We have about 42 hours until deadline and it doesn't feel like we're close to a lynch. I'd like to get a prod request on Galzria.

The leading wagon is mcmcsalot and the case on him is completely nonexistent as near as I can tell. Like literally I read through the thread and none of the votes on him come with any hint of an explanation.

The next three wagon candidates are Dylan, DatSwan, and silver. Dylan and DatSwan seem to have stalled out.

So I guess I'm going with vote: silverspawn.

I'm ok with it. He's been sheeping unashamedly, he's on the weird mcmc wagon, he's voting for jokey reasons well after RVS is over. I think silverspawn is a fine day 1 lynch with a better than 50 percent chance of being scum.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on December 18, 2018, 11:37:30 am
Vote: SS
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 18, 2018, 12:21:39 pm
He's been sheeping unashamedly, he's on the weird mcmc wagon, he's voting for jokey reasons well after RVS is over.
And why would he do any of that as scum?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 18, 2018, 12:25:16 pm
The leading wagon is mcmcsalot and the case on him is completely nonexistent as near as I can tell. Like literally I read through the thread and none of the votes on him come with any hint of an explanation.
The mcmc votes having no explanation is not an indicator of there being no case.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on December 18, 2018, 12:29:48 pm
The leading wagon is mcmcsalot and the case on him is completely nonexistent as near as I can tell. Like literally I read through the thread and none of the votes on him come with any hint of an explanation.
The mcmc votes having no explanation is not an indicator of there being no case.
Fine. But they donít give me any reason to get onboard, and youíre going to need some converts to make a lunch happen, especially if he is scum.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on December 18, 2018, 12:39:15 pm
He's been sheeping unashamedly, he's on the weird mcmc wagon, he's voting for jokey reasons well after RVS is over.
And why would he do any of that as scum?
Scum likes to vote in ways that they canít be held accountable for later.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 18, 2018, 12:39:51 pm
The leading wagon is mcmcsalot and the case on him is completely nonexistent as near as I can tell. Like literally I read through the thread and none of the votes on him come with any hint of an explanation.
The mcmc votes having no explanation is not an indicator of there being no case.
Fine. But they donít give me any reason to get onboard, and youíre going to need some converts to make a lunch happen, especially if he is scum.
What do you think of mcmc?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 18, 2018, 12:40:15 pm
He's been sheeping unashamedly, he's on the weird mcmc wagon, he's voting for jokey reasons well after RVS is over.
And why would he do any of that as scum?
Scum likes to vote in ways that they canít be held accountable for later.
Aren't you holding silver accountable for those votes right now?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on December 18, 2018, 12:51:45 pm
He's been sheeping unashamedly, he's on the weird mcmc wagon, he's voting for jokey reasons well after RVS is over.
And why would he do any of that as scum?
Scum likes to vote in ways that they canít be held accountable for later.
Aren't you holding silver accountable for those votes right now?
And thank god I'm here to do it! But I meant post-flip. When wagons get analyzed.

The leading wagon is mcmcsalot and the case on him is completely nonexistent as near as I can tell. Like literally I read through the thread and none of the votes on him come with any hint of an explanation.
The mcmc votes having no explanation is not an indicator of there being no case.
Fine. But they donít give me any reason to get onboard, and youíre going to need some converts to make a lunch happen, especially if he is scum.
What do you think of mcmc?

He reads very towny to me.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 18, 2018, 12:55:20 pm
He's been sheeping unashamedly, he's on the weird mcmc wagon, he's voting for jokey reasons well after RVS is over.
And why would he do any of that as scum?
Scum likes to vote in ways that they canít be held accountable for later.
Aren't you holding silver accountable for those votes right now?
And thank god I'm here to do it! But I meant post-flip. When wagons get analyzed.
If you can hold him accountable now, why couldn't you hold him accountable then?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on December 18, 2018, 01:06:47 pm
He's been sheeping unashamedly, he's on the weird mcmc wagon, he's voting for jokey reasons well after RVS is over.
And why would he do any of that as scum?
Scum likes to vote in ways that they canít be held accountable for later.
Aren't you holding silver accountable for those votes right now?
And thank god I'm here to do it! But I meant post-flip. When wagons get analyzed.
If you can hold him accountable now, why couldn't you hold him accountable then?
Anyone can hold anyone accountable for anything. But if you make a case, it can be responded to and holes can be poked in it and it might even contain a contradiction that could constitute a scumslip or make the vote seem ungenuine. If you just sheep or make a joke, there's nothing to analyze. Plus it draws less attention than an actual case and you don't have to worry about putting out reads that be analyzed later.

To summarize, it gets the town closer to a lynch without helping the town scumhunt or creating any useful information, and ideally lets the person in question fade into the background in the way scum likes to do. Silver's biggest contribution to the game so far has been a lengthy argument with me that was as much theory talk as it was anything else.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on December 18, 2018, 01:09:32 pm
inb4 faust says that clearly it does draw attention because it's drawing attention from me now. To which I would reply, yes, intentions are not the same as outcomes, and also most of the SS votes are not based on the pattern I'm describing but instead based on people finding things like his comment about not liking his own case scummy.

now faust, are you willing to answer some questions or do you only ask them?

Why are you voting for mcmc?

What do you think of silver?

Do you think you deserve Robz's day 1 pass?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on December 18, 2018, 01:29:47 pm
I will admit I do not have a massive town read on faust, he seems to be asking even more questions than usual, and not in as obviously a beneficial way. It almost feels like he's trying to walk people into traps.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 18, 2018, 02:06:52 pm
I will admit I do not have a massive town read on faust, he seems to be asking even more questions than usual, and not in as obviously a beneficial way. It almost feels like he's trying to walk people into traps.

I feel the exact same way and would have worded my post about it extremely similar. Robz is town.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: silverspawn on December 18, 2018, 02:15:15 pm
Your jokey "I don't like my own case" rings scummy to me, as it did to mcmc.

I already said that it wasn't a joke. I'm mildly annoyed that I have to say that again. Please don't repeat that it was jokey.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: silverspawn on December 18, 2018, 02:15:50 pm
Just a few posts above:

Actually vote: silverspawn I donít like his Dylan vote and his jokey ďI donít like my own caseĒ comment is scummy.

I was not joking. I made a case questioning joth's town motviation, had a chat with him, and concluded that he just thinks differently about the game and what he said was pretty much no evidence.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: silverspawn on December 18, 2018, 02:16:19 pm
Like you  just completely ignored what I was actually asking.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: silverspawn on December 18, 2018, 02:17:48 pm
Anyway. vote: Jimmm
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on December 18, 2018, 02:20:26 pm
I will admit I do not have a massive town read on faust, he seems to be asking even more questions than usual, and not in as obviously a beneficial way. It almost feels like he's trying to walk people into traps.

I feel the exact same way and would have worded my post about it extremely similar. Robz is town.

This could be buddying. Kind of weird thing to bring up since Robz's towniness isn't really under discussion RN.

Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: silverspawn on December 18, 2018, 02:20:36 pm
There's only been one thing in this game that strikes me as legitimately scummy, and that's this post

Looking at what seem to have been the major lynch candidates, I think mcmc and Dylan are scummyish and DatSwan is Towny.

I'm still in the 'early day one' mindest, and regardless of how early it is, I suspect town is more likely to feel like that then scum. Conversely, scum is more likely to have an awareness of who the 'majjor lynch candidates' are.

Put differently, I think town is less likely to think of anyone as a major candidate.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: silverspawn on December 18, 2018, 02:22:14 pm
I will admit I do not have a massive town read on faust, he seems to be asking even more questions than usual, and not in as obviously a beneficial way. It almost feels like he's trying to walk people into traps.

I feel the exact same way and would have worded my post about it extremely similar. Robz is town.

This could be buddying. Kind of weird thing to bring up since Robz's towniness isn't really under discussion RN.

Kind of weird, but probably (mildly) town indicative. Town worries less about what is immediately relevant than scum does.

Also "that's just what I was thinking and I'm town, so you must be town" is a plausible thought process.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on December 18, 2018, 02:24:33 pm
I will admit I do not have a massive town read on faust, he seems to be asking even more questions than usual, and not in as obviously a beneficial way. It almost feels like he's trying to walk people into traps.

I feel the exact same way and would have worded my post about it extremely similar. Robz is town.

This could be buddying. Kind of weird thing to bring up since Robz's towniness isn't really under discussion RN.

Kind of weird, but probably (mildly) town indicative. Town worries less about what is immediately relevant than scum does.

Also "that's just what I was thinking and I'm town, so you must be town" is a plausible thought process.

Especially given the twinclaim. Maybe the subtext here is that we can trust brothers to soul-read each other. Which I think is probably true more times than not but far from guaranteed.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on December 18, 2018, 02:47:44 pm
We have about 42 hours until deadline and it doesn't feel like we're close to a lynch. I'd like to get a prod request on Galzria.

The leading wagon is mcmcsalot and the case on him is completely nonexistent as near as I can tell. Like literally I read through the thread and none of the votes on him come with any hint of an explanation.

The next three wagon candidates are Dylan, DatSwan, and silver. Dylan and DatSwan seem to have stalled out.

So I guess I'm going with vote: silverspawn.

I'm ok with it. He's been sheeping unashamedly, he's on the weird mcmc wagon, he's voting for jokey reasons well after RVS is over. I think silverspawn is a fine day 1 lynch with a better than 50 percent chance of being scum.
Why is everyone just ignoring my case on mcmc? Itís not superstrong, but it exists
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on December 18, 2018, 02:49:01 pm
I donít see any case on Jimmmmm for what itís worth
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on December 18, 2018, 02:50:23 pm
We have about 42 hours until deadline and it doesn't feel like we're close to a lynch. I'd like to get a prod request on Galzria.

The leading wagon is mcmcsalot and the case on him is completely nonexistent as near as I can tell. Like literally I read through the thread and none of the votes on him come with any hint of an explanation.

The next three wagon candidates are Dylan, DatSwan, and silver. Dylan and DatSwan seem to have stalled out.

So I guess I'm going with vote: silverspawn.

I'm ok with it. He's been sheeping unashamedly, he's on the weird mcmc wagon, he's voting for jokey reasons well after RVS is over. I think silverspawn is a fine day 1 lynch with a better than 50 percent chance of being scum.
Why is everyone just ignoring my case on mcmc? Itís not superstrong, but it exists

I looked for it! Care to link or restate?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on December 18, 2018, 02:53:59 pm
NVM I found it! It's based on his DatSwan vote feeling forced.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on December 18, 2018, 02:56:33 pm
Iím caught up, joth and silver looks strongly like town v town.


vote: datswan
Their ďwoah lots going onĒ feels like scum surprised by the amount of discussion vs town. Town is likely to be excited and specific versus scum who would be general and dismissive.

This as well seems a little forced

Iím caught up, joth and silver looks strongly like town v town.


vote: datswan
Their ďwoah lots going onĒ feels like scum surprised by the amount of discussion vs town. Town is likely to be excited and specific versus scum who would be general and dismissive.

This as well seems a little forced

But do you disagree with my thought?

I do, actually. There was a lot of posts, when he came, No matter what alignment a person is, they could say woah it's a lot of posts for numerous reasons. Why would scum be surprised about the amount of townies discussion? There's more town people than there's scums. Even given that town would be more specific which is also not really true, or it would be really easy to catch scums.

All in all looks like you tried to develop a read out of nowhere

I apologize for saying your vote was unexplained. I was skimming and I only saw your initial RVS mcmc vote.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: silverspawn on December 18, 2018, 02:57:33 pm
Why is everyone just ignoring my case on mcmc? Itís not superstrong, but it exists

Not feeling it.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: ashersky on December 18, 2018, 04:18:43 pm
I would like to point out the large shift in ssís posting language/format/content/attitude since the wagon in him grew to a size worth caring about. Indicative of self-preservation and possibly defensiveness.

Jimmmmmmís low activity is generally a town liability, as seen in some very far past games, but when he is town and plays the late game, heís a force.

The more Faust annoys you, the more likely he is to end up town. He knows this and Iím sure tries to play to it, but I donít know how well he does at it. I donít know why he keeps getting NKed early; at this point it seems like living on D3 is a strong enough case to mislynch.

Others are unremarkable, generally.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on December 18, 2018, 04:21:47 pm
I know the wagon has all but evaporated, but I'm still feeling a Dylan lynch. Partially because of how it evaporated I think.

@faust: No, I didn't find that post notably towny. Null on it.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on December 18, 2018, 04:21:54 pm
I will admit I do not have a massive town read on faust, he seems to be asking even more questions than usual, and not in as obviously a beneficial way. It almost feels like he's trying to walk people into traps.

I feel the exact same way and would have worded my post about it extremely similar. Robz is town.

This could be buddying. Kind of weird thing to bring up since Robz's towniness isn't really under discussion RN.

Mcmc and I ICíd each other, basically, which is good.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on December 18, 2018, 04:22:53 pm
Could we get a votecount and a prod on Galz please?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on December 18, 2018, 04:27:33 pm
I would like to point out the large shift in ssís posting language/format/content/attitude since the wagon in him grew to a size worth caring about. Indicative of self-preservation and possibly defensiveness.

Jimmmmmmís low activity is generally a town liability, as seen in some very far past games, but when he is town and plays the late game, heís a force.

The more Faust annoys you, the more likely he is to end up town. He knows this and Iím sure tries to play to it, but I donít know how well he does at it. I donít know why he keeps getting NKed early; at this point it seems like living on D3 is a strong enough case to mislynch.

Others are unremarkable, generally.

Faust doesnít generally annoy me; this statement may be true for other players. Town Faust and town galz seem to get under each otherís skins.

Speaking of Galz, Iím sure he will show up eventually, and heís not really a good Day 1 lynch, so I am inclined to just ignore his absence for now.

Ashís point about Silver is solid.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on December 18, 2018, 04:30:27 pm
I'm not inclined to lynch Galz today either, but I really wish he'd show up and say some stuff.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on December 18, 2018, 05:00:18 pm
I will admit I do not have a massive town read on faust, he seems to be asking even more questions than usual, and not in as obviously a beneficial way. It almost feels like he's trying to walk people into traps.

I feel the exact same way and would have worded my post about it extremely similar. Robz is town.

This could be buddying. Kind of weird thing to bring up since Robz's towniness isn't really under discussion RN.

Mcmc and I ICíd each other, basically, which is good.

Unless you're scumbuddies of course.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on December 18, 2018, 05:06:16 pm
I would like to point out the large shift in ssís posting language/format/content/attitude since the wagon in him grew to a size worth caring about. Indicative of self-preservation and possibly defensiveness.

Jimmmmmmís low activity is generally a town liability, as seen in some very far past games, but when he is town and plays the late game, heís a force.

The more Faust annoys you, the more likely he is to end up town. He knows this and Iím sure tries to play to it, but I donít know how well he does at it. I donít know why he keeps getting NKed early; at this point it seems like living on D3 is a strong enough case to mislynch.

Others are unremarkable, generally.

Faust doesnít generally annoy me; this statement may be true for other players. Town Faust and town galz seem to get under each otherís skins.

Speaking of Galz, Iím sure he will show up eventually, and heís not really a good Day 1 lynch, so I am inclined to just ignore his absence for now.

Ashís point about Silver is solid.

We need seven of the 12 of us to lynch. But, assuming scum isn't day 1 bussing, we need seven out of nine town players to lynch scum. If Galzria is town and is out to lunch, then we're looking at needing all but one town player for a successful scum lynch.

So, as we approach deadline, I would submit that if we want to lynch scum, ignoring Galzria's absence isn't really a viable option.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 18, 2018, 05:06:28 pm
now faust, are you willing to answer some questions or do you only ask them?
I pretty much only ask them, but I'll make an exception for you.

Why are you voting for mcmc?
Because I think he's scum.

What do you think of silver?
I'd rather not say.

Do you think you deserve Robz's day 1 pass?
I think my games would be more exciting if fewer people would give me D1 passes. That said, I get it.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 18, 2018, 05:08:31 pm
I will admit I do not have a massive town read on faust, he seems to be asking even more questions than usual, and not in as obviously a beneficial way. It almost feels like he's trying to walk people into traps.

I feel the exact same way and would have worded my post about it extremely similar. Robz is town.
I always find that sort of thinking dangerous. Usually the best way to tell if someone is town is if they really wind you up because they are wrong about everything.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on December 18, 2018, 05:16:26 pm
Vote Count 1.5

ashersky (1): Jimmmmm
mcmcsalot (2): Lalight, faust
Robz888 (1): Galzria
DatSwan (1): Dylan32
Dylan32 (1): UmbrageOfSnow
silverspawn (4): ashersky, mcmcsalot, jotheonah, Robz888
Jimmmmm (1): silverspawn

Not Voting (1): DatSwan

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
D1 ends at 11am Czech time (5am Forum Time) on Thursday 20th December.

Galzria has been prodded

Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on December 18, 2018, 05:31:58 pm
I would like to point out the large shift in ssís posting language/format/content/attitude since the wagon in him grew to a size worth caring about. Indicative of self-preservation and possibly defensiveness.

Is self-preservation a scumtell, particularly Day 1? No one wants to be the first lynch.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: silverspawn on December 18, 2018, 06:12:41 pm
There's always a wagon on me day 1,  I'm always town, and it usually gets to about L-1 before it either dies down or I get mislynched. This is nothing unusual.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: silverspawn on December 18, 2018, 06:14:05 pm
Also, you're wrong ash. My attitude changed because Robz because (and still is) pretty annoying.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: silverspawn on December 18, 2018, 06:15:06 pm
basically joth accused me of X, I explained why it wasn't X, then robz accused me of X, I repeated that it wasn't X, and Robz ignored it.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: silverspawn on December 18, 2018, 06:16:03 pm
Is anyone going to join me on Jimmm?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on December 18, 2018, 06:17:36 pm
There's always a wagon on me day 1

Why is that?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Dylan32 on December 18, 2018, 06:20:23 pm
I will admit I do not have a massive town read on faust, he seems to be asking even more questions than usual, and not in as obviously a beneficial way. It almost feels like he's trying to walk people into traps.

I feel the exact same way and would have worded my post about it extremely similar. Robz is town.
I always find that sort of thinking dangerous. Usually the best way to tell if someone is town is if they really wind you up because they are wrong about everything.

Agree mostly. Last game I thought a lot of what mcmc was saying made a lot of sense and agreed with a lot of it. Final result, mcmc=scum... Not sure how much the brother claim would affect that. A relevant question for people who have read more games *cough*LaLight*cough* would be how often do mcmc and Robz accurately read each other?

I would like to point out the large shift in ssís posting language/format/content/attitude since the wagon in him grew to a size worth caring about. Indicative of self-preservation and possibly defensiveness.

Is self-preservation a scumtell, particularly Day 1? No one wants to be the first lynch.

It probably isn't by itself, but the way you do it can be. Cuz yeah if town just rolls over and lets themselves be the first lynch (barring non-normal PR shenanigans), they are directly working against town's main objective of lynch scum. I do think a major change in tone or style could be more indicative of scum though. Scum are trying to avoid sounding scummy, and so if they are under pressure they need to sound townie, whereas town is less worried about how what they are saying sounds and more concerned that what they are saying convinces town that they are a bad lynch.

ppe several
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on December 18, 2018, 06:21:49 pm
There's only been one thing in this game that strikes me as legitimately scummy, and that's this post

Looking at what seem to have been the major lynch candidates, I think mcmc and Dylan are scummyish and DatSwan is Towny.

I'm still in the 'early day one' mindest, and regardless of how early it is, I suspect town is more likely to feel like that then scum. Conversely, scum is more likely to have an awareness of who the 'majjor lynch candidates' are.

Put differently, I think town is less likely to think of anyone as a major candidate.

I just skimmed through the thread and quickly re-read the names that stuck out. Apparently I missed yours.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on December 18, 2018, 06:34:19 pm
I'm null on silver.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on December 18, 2018, 06:34:50 pm
Vote: Dylan
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: DatSwan on December 18, 2018, 06:40:11 pm
Vote: Jimmmmm
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: DatSwan on December 18, 2018, 06:43:13 pm
SS wagon is a no go for me.

Too many people I am on the fence about are on it right now, including my #1 skum read.

Also, SS switching to Jimmm, therefore leaving the only viable counter wagon at the time, doesn't strike me as skummy.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: silverspawn on December 18, 2018, 06:52:52 pm
There's always a wagon on me day 1

Why is that?

Unfortunately, I don't really know.

Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Galzria on December 18, 2018, 08:56:45 pm
I'm caught up!

I didn't quote block anything, which is what I had planned on doing when I set out to re-read, but that's life.

SS is a bad lynch. I've been decent at correctly reading him in the last few games I've played with him, both when he's town and when he's scum. He's a very consistent player, and his tone as either alignment can read VERY similar - but I've found him to be just a bit more subtle in how he tries to control the flow of things as scum - and I'm simply not seeing that here.

Faust also reads town to me right now - not that he's getting lynched anyway. Yes, he's asking a massive number of questions, which he does often as town, and mirrors well as scum - but it's how he asks them that tends to differentiate his alignments. When he's scum, I've found that his questions read as if he already knows the answer. He's not trying to deduce anything, or build reads - he asks questions for the sake of asking them, or to lead others astray.

Mcmc definitely comes across as the scummiest player to me - his opening post and vote on Swan feel VERY much like he's jumping in by leaning into his "I always fight with Swan" meta (which is DEFINITELY a thing that happens between them). But it's just so bloody obvious that... I can't decide if I feel like Mcmc is faking it, or if he's actually scummy because of it. Because I honestly believe that town!Mcmc would fake it for his own personal reasons, I'm hesitant to consider a lynch here.

Speaking of mcmc, I've found Datswan to be rather scummy as well. He too played in to the "I always fight with Mcmc" meta - but in a way that does NOT read like he's faking it for potentially pro-town reasons. Rather, his play feels much more like he's trying to force a match with his town meta, whereas Mcmc feels like he's almost intentionally being scummy. I would support this lynch.

Robz... My problem here is that I always find Robz scummy. He's a player I honestly just seem to have no ability to read whatsoever. I very much dislike the play and reads between him and Mcmc - but I'm probably more critical than I should be. Partially, I guess, I just don't trust ANY two players strong town reading each other (especially D1)!... While I'm extremely doubtful that they would make this play if they were both scum, I wouldn't be surprised to see that one of them was, and is playing into this brotherly-read.

Joth started out reading a little scummy, but has definitely played townier since then. It's really hard to make any sort of meta read here as well since it's been so long, but gut definitely feels town.

Jimmmmm/Dylan - I'm more or less neutral on. I think I find Dylan to be the townier of the two, but I don't have anything strong to go on. Certainly no real meta arguments. Just gut.

LaLight/Ashersky - I'm even more neutral on than Jimmm/Dylan.

And my "So-far-under-the-radar-even-though-they've-been-posting" player is UoS, who like Jimmmmm/Dylan/LL/Ash I have no real meta read to make, has just gut read scum to me. Like, serious under the radar scum. Don't know why. Can't point to anything they've said or done. May not even be anything to point to. Just how I felt every time I read their posts.

For now, I think I'm going to join Dylan on vote: Datswan. I think that was, and is, the best wagon we've had today.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on December 18, 2018, 09:16:18 pm
Also, SS switching to Jimmm, therefore leaving the only viable counter wagon at the time, doesn't strike me as skummy.

I noticed this too. But I think SS is smart enough and gutsy enough to do this as scum for town points.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on December 18, 2018, 09:24:57 pm
Thanks for coming in with a wall oí text, Galz. Iím in for trying to make vote: DatSwan happen.

Would lynch: DatSwan, silver, Jimmmm
Neutral: mcmc, LaLight, Umbrage
Would rather not lynch: Dylan, faust, Robz
Would not lynch: joth, Galz, ashersky
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Galzria on December 18, 2018, 09:38:58 pm
Thanks for coming in with a wall oí text, Galz. Iím in for trying to make vote: DatSwan happen.

Would lynch: DatSwan, silver, Jimmmm
Neutral: mcmc, LaLight, Umbrage
Would rather not lynch: Dylan, faust, Robz
Would not lynch: joth, Galz, ashersky

Better late than never!

Iím mostly around from now until deadline too, so Iím good to discuss options.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: DatSwan on December 19, 2018, 12:39:32 am
Galz made a reads list so heís probably skum. Just pointing it out.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 19, 2018, 01:54:41 am
Vote: Galzria
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on December 19, 2018, 02:02:54 am
A relevant question for people who have read more games *cough*LaLight*cough* would be how often do mcmc and Robz accurately read each other?

They actually mostly read each other correctly, but they can buddy each other pretty well. I was scumbuddy of mcmc twice or even thrice and he always says N0 that "I can fool Robz to think I'm town, ez". That said there were cases when Robz was scum and mcmc in the end told that he would never think that. So I'd call that a neverending WIFOM of them both, layers of layers of how they read each other.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on December 19, 2018, 07:57:49 am
21 hours until deadline. :D
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 19, 2018, 09:07:57 am
Your jokey "I don't like my own case" rings scummy to me, as it did to mcmc.

I already said that it wasn't a joke. I'm mildly annoyed that I have to say that again. Please don't repeat that it was jokey.

We are not saying itís literally a joke. We are saying tonaly it had a jokey undertone (whether you wanted it to come out that way or not) and the whole post had a vibe that rings scummy to both robz and I.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 19, 2018, 09:11:39 am
I will admit I do not have a massive town read on faust, he seems to be asking even more questions than usual, and not in as obviously a beneficial way. It almost feels like he's trying to walk people into traps.

I feel the exact same way and would have worded my post about it extremely similar. Robz is town.

This could be buddying. Kind of weird thing to bring up since Robz's towniness isn't really under discussion RN.

Kind of weird, but probably (mildly) town indicative. Town worries less about what is immediately relevant than scum does.

Also "that's just what I was thinking and I'm town, so you must be town" is a plausible thought process.

Especially given the twinclaim. Maybe the subtext here is that we can trust brothers to soul-read each other. Which I think is probably true more times than not but far from guaranteed.

For relevance robz and I have had a few games where this has happened. Generally I find I can trust my gut on robz when it comes to a town read.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 19, 2018, 09:13:54 am
I know the wagon has all but evaporated, but I'm still feeling a Dylan lynch. Partially because of how it evaporated I think.

@faust: No, I didn't find that post notably towny. Null on it.

Could you elaborate on this? Possibly because I found the ramping up of the wagon to be somewhat scummy I donít find itís dissapating scummy, but do you have more of a theory of the way it evaporated being scummy?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 19, 2018, 09:16:12 am
I will admit I do not have a massive town read on faust, he seems to be asking even more questions than usual, and not in as obviously a beneficial way. It almost feels like he's trying to walk people into traps.

I feel the exact same way and would have worded my post about it extremely similar. Robz is town.
I always find that sort of thinking dangerous. Usually the best way to tell if someone is town is if they really wind you up because they are wrong about everything.

I strongly disagree, itís easy to manipulate winding people up. For example you and I frequently go at it as town v town with different mindsets but we have both played into that as scum to try to get the other one of us to town read them.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 19, 2018, 09:17:40 am
There's always a wagon on me day 1,  I'm always town, and it usually gets to about L-1 before it either dies down or I get mislynched. This is nothing unusual.

Care to give us a Faustian style breakdown of how often this is actually true.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 19, 2018, 09:29:03 am
Mcmc definitely comes across as the scummiest player to me - his opening post and vote on Swan feel VERY much like he's jumping in by leaning into his "I always fight with Swan" meta (which is DEFINITELY a thing that happens between them). But it's just so bloody obvious that... I can't decide if I feel like Mcmc is faking it, or if he's actually scummy because of it. Because I honestly believe that town!Mcmc would fake it for his own personal reasons, I'm hesitant to consider a lynch here.

Speaking of mcmc, I've found Datswan to be rather scummy as well. He too played in to the "I always fight with Mcmc" meta - but in a way that does NOT read like he's faking it for potentially pro-town reasons. Rather, his play feels much more like he's trying to force a match with his town meta, whereas Mcmc feels like he's almost intentionally being scummy. I would support this lynch.

For now, I think I'm going to join Dylan on vote: Datswan. I think that was, and is, the best wagon we've had today.

Iím confused. Can you elaborate on the underlined portion? I can go on record saying I absolutely do not fake things as town for the purpose of lookin more towny or for the purpose of helping a town or scum meta. Itís strange how you start saying I come across as the scummiest and then say you are hesitant to consider a lynch on me. Then you explain that you also find datswan scummy and even vote datswan. How then do you feel like I was scummy for going at datswan and finding him scummy?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 19, 2018, 09:37:12 am
Mcmc definitely comes across as the scummiest player to me - his opening post and vote on Swan feel VERY much like he's jumping in by leaning into his "I always fight with Swan" meta (which is DEFINITELY a thing that happens between them). But it's just so bloody obvious that... I can't decide if I feel like Mcmc is faking it, or if he's actually scummy because of it. Because I honestly believe that town!Mcmc would fake it for his own personal reasons, I'm hesitant to consider a lynch here.

Speaking of mcmc, I've found Datswan to be rather scummy as well. He too played in to the "I always fight with Mcmc" meta - but in a way that does NOT read like he's faking it for potentially pro-town reasons. Rather, his play feels much more like he's trying to force a match with his town meta, whereas Mcmc feels like he's almost intentionally being scummy. I would support this lynch.

For now, I think I'm going to join Dylan on vote: Datswan. I think that was, and is, the best wagon we've had today.

Iím confused. Can you elaborate on the underlined portion? I can go on record saying I absolutely do not fake things as town for the purpose of lookin more towny or for the purpose of helping a town or scum meta. Itís strange how you start saying I come across as the scummiest and then say you are hesitant to consider a lynch on me. Then you explain that you also find datswan scummy and even vote datswan. How then do you feel like I was scummy for going at datswan and finding him scummy?
Just vote for Galzria already.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 19, 2018, 09:38:28 am
I will admit I do not have a massive town read on faust, he seems to be asking even more questions than usual, and not in as obviously a beneficial way. It almost feels like he's trying to walk people into traps.

I feel the exact same way and would have worded my post about it extremely similar. Robz is town.
I always find that sort of thinking dangerous. Usually the best way to tell if someone is town is if they really wind you up because they are wrong about everything.

I strongly disagree, itís easy to manipulate winding people up. For example you and I frequently go at it as town v town with different mindsets but we have both played into that as scum to try to get the other one of us to town read them.
And it's harder to fake agreeing with someone?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 19, 2018, 09:53:09 am
I will admit I do not have a massive town read on faust, he seems to be asking even more questions than usual, and not in as obviously a beneficial way. It almost feels like he's trying to walk people into traps.

I feel the exact same way and would have worded my post about it extremely similar. Robz is town.
I always find that sort of thinking dangerous. Usually the best way to tell if someone is town is if they really wind you up because they are wrong about everything.

I strongly disagree, itís easy to manipulate winding people up. For example you and I frequently go at it as town v town with different mindsets but we have both played into that as scum to try to get the other one of us to town read them.
And it's harder to fake agreeing with someone?

Oh I see what you are saying. No itís not, and I donít think anyone should find me towny for me agreeing with robz and me finding him towny, scum!me could be faking/buddying. But for myself, I can trust my town read on robz because itís harder for him to fake a post that reads genuinely like what town me is feeling and how I would say it. I find it much harder to trust the type of townreads where I disagree with everything a players is saying thus they must be town, thatís the playstyle I think is easy to fake as scum.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 19, 2018, 10:07:46 am
I will admit I do not have a massive town read on faust, he seems to be asking even more questions than usual, and not in as obviously a beneficial way. It almost feels like he's trying to walk people into traps.

I feel the exact same way and would have worded my post about it extremely similar. Robz is town.
I always find that sort of thinking dangerous. Usually the best way to tell if someone is town is if they really wind you up because they are wrong about everything.

I strongly disagree, itís easy to manipulate winding people up. For example you and I frequently go at it as town v town with different mindsets but we have both played into that as scum to try to get the other one of us to town read them.
And it's harder to fake agreeing with someone?

Oh I see what you are saying. No itís not, and I donít think anyone should find me towny for me agreeing with robz and me finding him towny, scum!me could be faking/buddying. But for myself, I can trust my town read on robz because itís harder for him to fake a post that reads genuinely like what town me is feeling and how I would say it. I find it much harder to trust the type of townreads where I disagree with everything a players is saying thus they must be town, thatís the playstyle I think is easy to fake as scum.
Why is it, then, harder for scum to fake something the reads like what you are feeling than it is for them to fake a post that reads like the opposite of what you are feeling?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 19, 2018, 10:34:27 am
Why is it, then, harder for scum to fake something the that reads like what you are feeling than it is for them to fake a post that reads like the opposite of what you are feeling?

In a vacuum they are not but you are taking all the context of the situation out of my point. I am not stating what is purely harder to fake as scum something that reads like what I am feeling or the opposite of what I am feeling. I am saying it is harder to fake a post that comes across as the same thing as what I am feeling worded a similar way to how I would express that feeling than it is to fit a meta where a player is contrarian to the points that I am trying to make.

Your original point was:
I always find that sort of thinking dangerous. Usually the best way to tell if someone is town is if they really wind you up because they are wrong about everything.

And I am disagree with that point, I think itís easier to tell when someone is town because they think and express very similar to the points I am thinking and expressing (before I express them), than it is to tell they are town based on disagreeing with everything they say. A) the player would have to be a player I normally disagree with because we view things differently and B) I think that is an easier meta to play into/fake for scum because itís more general (be contrarian) than it is to fake coming up with similar point that another player was thinking in there head and express the point they would.

Lastly I strongly dislike that you are continually arguing with me and that you have changed what your actual argument is slightly each post so much so that you are now trying to frame me into arguing for a point I was never making. I canít tell what your motivation is for doing it but I donít like it nor do I think itís a pro town thing to do.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on December 19, 2018, 10:46:23 am
I'm strongly opposed to a momsalon lynch, this thought process and the thought process with regard to Robz seem very town, and my own Robz townread came from a similar place and mcmc having that same thought about Robz... I don't know, this feels kind of ironic but it's a serious mcmc townread.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 19, 2018, 10:49:33 am
I have not changed what my argument is. You seem to think that because Robz had a thought that you had too he must be town. That seems odd. Scum has thoughts too, and the particular thought Robz was expressing may occur to scum just as well as to town. In fact scum is more likely to express it because expressing it served no discernible purpose for town.

Also somehow you're hung up on the fact that it's worded similarly to what you would have written. Well. I think the only thing that indicates is that you and Robz have a similar background in your lives. I have no clue why scum would use different wordings.

And no, it is not difficult to be contrarian and play to wind people up. But it is generally speaking not a winning strategy for scum. Scum wants to get on the good side of people so they listen to their manipulation and push back against players who try to lynch them.

PPE: 1
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 19, 2018, 10:50:48 am
I'm strongly opposed to a momsalon lynch, this thought process and the thought process with regard to Robz seem very town, and my own Robz townread came from a similar place and mcmc having that same thought about Robz... I don't know, this feels kind of ironic but it's a serious mcmc townread.
What about Galzria?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on December 19, 2018, 10:53:11 am
I know the wagon has all but evaporated, but I'm still feeling a Dylan lynch. Partially because of how it evaporated I think.

Could you elaborate on this? Possibly because I found the ramping up of the wagon to be somewhat scummy I donít find itís dissapating scummy, but do you have more of a theory of the way it evaporated being scummy?

It felt like Dylan had some good lynch momentum going, we even had a bit of talk about days ending early so I know I'm not the only one who felt it, but then a bunch of people jumped out to put the brakes on. I know SS' vote wasn't the strongest thing, and I can see where people might have found that Dylan post about his reasoning authentic-sounding (I don't but I can kind of see it I guess), but it seemed like it never gained as much momentum as it seemed like it had and everyone but me bailed hard ASAP.

I kind of think that town!Dylan gets pushed harder by scum in that situation, to try to push the mislynch through or to make someone like me or faust look scummy for pushing it or something but it was just kind of shrugged off by everyone or actively pushed against. The post can't have been that towny even to people more familiar with Dylan, some of that is surely from town, but scum also kept silent on Dylan, backed off hard, or defended him, and that makes me want to lynch him.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on December 19, 2018, 10:59:26 am
I'm strongly opposed to a momsalon lynch, this thought process and the thought process with regard to Robz seem very town, and my own Robz townread came from a similar place and mcmc having that same thought about Robz... I don't know, this feels kind of ironic but it's a serious mcmc townread.
What about Galzria?
I was just debating going back and looking at some old games to try to look at meta, don't have the time right now, but should have time before deadline.

I don't like how almost everyone is scummy or null or I'm so null I'm scummy other than you who we aren't debating lynching anyway and SS who he is defending but kind of lightly. Like it made me think it might be an "I told you so" kind of thing. So no, I don't really like that big reads post, but I also have this part of me that hates to vote anyone who comes back from being prodded with a big helpful reads post, and Galz is a good player.

I'm torn, I'm not opposed to it, I'm not voting there right now.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 19, 2018, 11:05:18 am
I will be around for the deadline by the way, but not this evening when likely most of the exciting stuff is going to go down.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on December 19, 2018, 11:06:44 am
Yeah, I don't think I can actually be on at deadline, although if I have insomnia I might log on from my girlfriend's phone or something, but no promises. I'm still U.S. East Coast.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on December 19, 2018, 11:13:27 am
I know the wagon has all but evaporated, but I'm still feeling a Dylan lynch. Partially because of how it evaporated I think.

Could you elaborate on this? Possibly because I found the ramping up of the wagon to be somewhat scummy I donít find itís dissapating scummy, but do you have more of a theory of the way it evaporated being scummy?

It felt like Dylan had some good lynch momentum going, we even had a bit of talk about days ending early so I know I'm not the only one who felt it, but then a bunch of people jumped out to put the brakes on. I know SS' vote wasn't the strongest thing, and I can see where people might have found that Dylan post about his reasoning authentic-sounding (I don't but I can kind of see it I guess), but it seemed like it never gained as much momentum as it seemed like it had and everyone but me bailed hard ASAP.

I kind of think that town!Dylan gets pushed harder by scum in that situation, to try to push the mislynch through or to make someone like me or faust look scummy for pushing it or something but it was just kind of shrugged off by everyone or actively pushed against. The post can't have been that towny even to people more familiar with Dylan, some of that is surely from town, but scum also kept silent on Dylan, backed off hard, or defended him, and that makes me want to lynch him.

I want to like this case, but to me it felt like the wagon, which was never based on much of anything, sputtered out in a pretty organic way. I don't think scum needs to put a lot of pressure on any particular lynch day 1, especially the first one, that far from deadline.

I was the first one to move off the Dylan wagon. I can only speak for myself, but I really did find his case on DatSwan convincing. And that had two effects. One, it made Dylan seem a bit more towny to me and two, it made DatSwan seem a bit more scummy to me. And then I actually reread the evidence for myself and found that DatSwan was playing very differently this game than that game. And then DatSwan just seemed to confirm that narrative as he offered his defense, and did something else I found scummy, namely subtly reshaping Dylan's case to make his response to it seem better (see my post #177). And when he responded to me, he ignored that case, even after I pointed out that he had ignored it.

So I moved my vote to DatSwan. But it was as much a vote for DatSwan as it was an unvote for Dylan.

After that the wagon just sort of puttered out -- Lalight showed up and said it was bad, silver moved his vote, we started talking about other wagons.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on December 19, 2018, 11:15:31 am
Incidentally, that's why I was happy to try again to make a DatSwan lynch happen when Galzy showed up. I know I have a tendency to tunnel, but I am definitely still scumreading him.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on December 19, 2018, 11:20:47 am
I have not changed what my argument is. You seem to think that because Robz had a thought that you had too he must be town. That seems odd. Scum has thoughts too, and the particular thought Robz was expressing may occur to scum just as well as to town. In fact scum is more likely to express it because expressing it served no discernible purpose for town.

Also somehow you're hung up on the fact that it's worded similarly to what you would have written. Well. I think the only thing that indicates is that you and Robz have a similar background in your lives. I have no clue why scum would use different wordings.

And no, it is not difficult to be contrarian and play to wind people up. But it is generally speaking not a winning strategy for scum. Scum wants to get on the good side of people so they listen to their manipulation and push back against players who try to lynch them.

PPE: 1

I think it's a bit scummy to try to talk people out of early town reads. Like, what's the point? It's day 1 and I'm looking for reasons to rule people out. Like, if two days from now, there's something really suspicious about mcmc, I'm not going to go, "Alas, my early day 1 read on mcmc tells me otherwise, I will not vote him!" I think scum tends to panic and think oh my god, this person is correctly town reading this other person, they will never vote for each other, I am about to be POE'd, the walls are closing in, I must fight this... At least, I know I have had those freakouts in the past, as scum.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on December 19, 2018, 11:22:09 am
If Silver isn't happening... Dylan, Jimmm, DatSwan, UoS are all fine by me. The only lynches I would quite actively oppose right now are Joth and mcmc, I guess.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 19, 2018, 11:25:38 am
I have not changed what my argument is. You seem to think that because Robz had a thought that you had too he must be town. That seems odd. Scum has thoughts too, and the particular thought Robz was expressing may occur to scum just as well as to town. In fact scum is more likely to express it because expressing it served no discernible purpose for town.

Also somehow you're hung up on the fact that it's worded similarly to what you would have written. Well. I think the only thing that indicates is that you and Robz have a similar background in your lives. I have no clue why scum would use different wordings.

And no, it is not difficult to be contrarian and play to wind people up. But it is generally speaking not a winning strategy for scum. Scum wants to get on the good side of people so they listen to their manipulation and push back against players who try to lynch them.

PPE: 1

I think it's a bit scummy to try to talk people out of early town reads. Like, what's the point? It's day 1 and I'm looking for reasons to rule people out. Like, if two days from now, there's something really suspicious about mcmc, I'm not going to go, "Alas, my early day 1 read on mcmc tells me otherwise, I will not vote him!" I think scum tends to panic and think oh my god, this person is correctly town reading this other person, they will never vote for each other, I am about to be POE'd, the walls are closing in, I must fight this... At least, I know I have had those freakouts in the past, as scum.
It's not so much about talking mcmc out of the read as it is about seeing how well mcmc handles scrutiny of his paperthin argument.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 19, 2018, 11:25:53 am
If Silver isn't happening... Dylan, Jimmm, DatSwan, UoS are all fine by me. The only lynches I would quite actively oppose right now are Joth and mcmc, I guess.
What about Galzria?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 19, 2018, 11:27:28 am
Also could you do some active opposing of the mcmc lynch right now because that still seems like an appealing option.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on December 19, 2018, 12:06:04 pm
Okay, well, I very actively oppose it because I really do get some strong town vibes from mcmc, and my opinion on mcmc's towniness should count for something significant. Though I could be wrong and might change my mind later.

Galzria... I don't really think Galz has done anything to merit a town read, but I'm not reading him as scum either. Seems like a lot of work to lynch him, and there's not a huge reason to.

What is the vote count?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on December 19, 2018, 12:16:20 pm
Vote Count 1.6

mcmcsalot (1): Lalight
DatSwan (1): Dylan32
Dylan32 (2): UmbrageOfSnow, Jimmmmm
silverspawn (3): ashersky, mcmcsalot, Robz888
Jimmmmm (4): silverspawn, DatSwan, Galzria, jotheonah
Galzria (1): faust

Not Voting (0):

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
D1 ends at 11am Czech time (5am Forum Time) on Thursday 20th December. That's in ~17 hours.

Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on December 19, 2018, 12:23:32 pm
Vote: Jimmmm
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on December 19, 2018, 12:49:05 pm
Vote Count 1.6

mcmcsalot (1): Lalight
DatSwan (1): Dylan32
Dylan32 (2): UmbrageOfSnow, Jimmmmm
silverspawn (3): ashersky, mcmcsalot, Robz888
Jimmmmm (4): silverspawn, DatSwan, Galzria, jotheonah
Galzria (1): faust

Not Voting (0):

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
D1 ends at 11am Czech time (5am Forum Time) on Thursday 20th December. That's in ~17 hours.


My vote should be on DatSwan.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on December 19, 2018, 12:49:28 pm
so should Galzria's
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on December 19, 2018, 01:40:10 pm
Well then, Vote: Datswan
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Galzria on December 19, 2018, 01:57:50 pm
Galz made a reads list so heís probably skum. Just pointing it out.

I would be interested in what reality you're living, as I can point to both recent town and recent scum games where I've given reads lists. "Galz made a reads list so he's probably skum or town" would be a much more accurate statement.  ::)
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Galzria on December 19, 2018, 01:59:26 pm
Galz made a reads list so heís probably skum. Just pointing it out.

Also, seems you forgot to vote for me here, even though, you know, I'm "probably skum".
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Galzria on December 19, 2018, 02:04:36 pm
Vote: Galzria

Just vote for Galzria already.

What about Galzria?

What about Galzria?

You do you faust-y boy.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on December 19, 2018, 02:11:46 pm
Vote: Galzria

Just vote for Galzria already.

What about Galzria?

What about Galzria?

You do you faust-y boy.

JACOB FROM "LOST" VOICE: What about Galzria?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: DatSwan on December 19, 2018, 02:20:48 pm
Galz made a reads list so heís probably skum. Just pointing it out.

Also, seems you forgot to vote for me here, even though, you know, I'm "probably skum".

Sorry.

Vote: Galz
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on December 19, 2018, 02:21:22 pm
Unofficial corrected/updated vote count:

mcmcsalot (1): Lalight
DatSwan (4): Dylan32, Galzria, Jotheonah, Robz888 (L-3)
Dylan32 (2): UmbrageOfSnow, Jimmmmm
silverspawn (2): ashersky, mcmcsalot
Jimmmmm (1): silverspawn
Galzria (2): faust, DatSwan

Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Galzria on December 19, 2018, 02:22:58 pm
Mcmc definitely comes across as the scummiest player to me - his opening post and vote on Swan feel VERY much like he's jumping in by leaning into his "I always fight with Swan" meta (which is DEFINITELY a thing that happens between them). But it's just so bloody obvious that... I can't decide if I feel like Mcmc is faking it, or if he's actually scummy because of it. Because I honestly believe that town!Mcmc would fake it for his own personal reasons, I'm hesitant to consider a lynch here.

Speaking of mcmc, I've found Datswan to be rather scummy as well. He too played in to the "I always fight with Mcmc" meta - but in a way that does NOT read like he's faking it for potentially pro-town reasons. Rather, his play feels much more like he's trying to force a match with his town meta, whereas Mcmc feels like he's almost intentionally being scummy. I would support this lynch.

For now, I think I'm going to join Dylan on vote: Datswan. I think that was, and is, the best wagon we've had today.

Iím confused. Can you elaborate on the underlined portion? I can go on record saying I absolutely do not fake things as town for the purpose of lookin more towny or for the purpose of helping a town or scum meta. Itís strange how you start saying I come across as the scummiest and then say you are hesitant to consider a lynch on me. Then you explain that you also find datswan scummy and even vote datswan. How then do you feel like I was scummy for going at datswan and finding him scummy?

I'll do my best.

When I read the thread, start to finish, and try to remove any pre-conceived bias or reads that I may have already have formed (which, I'll admit, I'm not completely capable of doing), you come across as extremely scummy. So does Datswan. Both of your opening set of posts where you vote for one another feel extremely disengenuous and as you both have a strong established meta of clashing with each other, it feels very forced.

So what's different about my reads on you two? The best I can describe it is that your posts for Swan feel like you're TRYING to be scummy - it feels over the top and obvious. From a town perspective, there are plenty of reasons to want to be slightly scum read. You could be a PR trying to avoid a NK. You could be a VT trying to pull a NK based on the previous sentance. I've seen both from multiple players, in multiple scenario's. I've done the second recently (M117 I think? I was VT and played D1 overly scummy with a very soft Cop claim that scum picked up on N1).

Swan on the other hand, reads more serious. Maybe it's that he came second and you first, but he reads to me like he's playing into the "mcmc and I always fight" meta because he's trying to appear like his town-self. It just doesn't give me the same vibes that there could be an alterior town motivation for playing it out that way.

Both of you open by playing into this same, pre-established meta. I could be over-reading on you, and maybe you're just scum trying to blend in to your town meta, as I'm suspicious of Swan for doing. But for neither of you does this come across as genuine. I just find it easier to believe there's a town motivation for you than I do for Swan.

In the end, for both of you to be town and to have opened the way you both did feels really, really strange to me. I just don't feel it. And I have an easier time seeing you posting in the fashion you did as town than I do seeing Swan posting in the fashion that he did as town - so while I'm hesitant to want to vote you, I have no problem voting Swan.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: DatSwan on December 19, 2018, 02:27:08 pm
Last Galz post reads like a super well hidden agenda to get two players he knows are town lynched.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: silverspawn on December 19, 2018, 02:28:30 pm
I think some of you haven't gotten the 'vote counts are automated' memo yet (assuming EFHW is using space's program). If your vote doesn't count, it's probably because of spelling. Space doesn't ignore casing, so if you say Datswan rather than DatSwan, it probably won't be counted.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: silverspawn on December 19, 2018, 02:29:54 pm
Okay, well, I very actively oppose it because I really do get some strong town vibes from mcmc, and my opinion on mcmc's towniness should count for something significant. Though I could be wrong and might change my mind later.

Galzria... I don't really think Galz has done anything to merit a town read, but I'm not reading him as scum either. Seems like a lot of work to lynch him, and there's not a huge reason to.

What is the vote count?

this sounds so scummy. but I'm not sure it actually is
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: silverspawn on December 19, 2018, 02:30:50 pm
Your jokey "I don't like my own case" rings scummy to me, as it did to mcmc.

I already said that it wasn't a joke. I'm mildly annoyed that I have to say that again. Please don't repeat that it was jokey.

We are not saying itís literally a joke. We are saying tonaly it had a jokey undertone (whether you wanted it to come out that way or not) and the whole post had a vibe that rings scummy to both robz and I.

That wasn't really what either of you said, but I can accept that it's what you were trying to say. I appreciate you responding rather than ignoring it as Robz continues to do.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on December 19, 2018, 02:30:59 pm
I think some of you haven't gotten the 'vote counts are automated' memo yet (assuming EFHW is using space's program). If your vote doesn't count, it's probably because of spelling. Space doesn't ignore casing, so if you say Datswan rather than DatSwan, it probably won't be counted.

Oh, really? Okay. Vote: DatSwan
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on December 19, 2018, 02:31:36 pm
Your jokey "I don't like my own case" rings scummy to me, as it did to mcmc.

I already said that it wasn't a joke. I'm mildly annoyed that I have to say that again. Please don't repeat that it was jokey.

We are not saying itís literally a joke. We are saying tonaly it had a jokey undertone (whether you wanted it to come out that way or not) and the whole post had a vibe that rings scummy to both robz and I.

That wasn't really what either of you said, but I can accept that it's what you were trying to say. I appreciate you responding rather than ignoring it as Robz continues to do.

I am no longer ignoring, and yes, I meant what mcmc meant.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Galzria on December 19, 2018, 02:33:35 pm
I think some of you haven't gotten the 'vote counts are automated' memo yet (assuming EFHW is using space's program). If your vote doesn't count, it's probably because of spelling. Space doesn't ignore casing, so if you say Datswan rather than DatSwan, it probably won't be counted.

Oh, really? Okay. Vote: DatSwan

Is that actually a thing? Wow, I'm going to mis-vote almost every single time.

Vote: DatSwan
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on December 19, 2018, 02:34:31 pm
I think some of you haven't gotten the 'vote counts are automated' memo yet (assuming EFHW is using space's program). If your vote doesn't count, it's probably because of spelling. Space doesn't ignore casing, so if you say Datswan rather than DatSwan, it probably won't be counted.

vote: DatSwan

But I also went back and checked and I typed it exactly right before.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: silverspawn on December 19, 2018, 02:35:13 pm
I know the wagon has all but evaporated, but I'm still feeling a Dylan lynch. Partially because of how it evaporated I think.

Could you elaborate on this? Possibly because I found the ramping up of the wagon to be somewhat scummy I donít find itís dissapating scummy, but do you have more of a theory of the way it evaporated being scummy?

It felt like Dylan had some good lynch momentum going, we even had a bit of talk about days ending early so I know I'm not the only one who felt it, but then a bunch of people jumped out to put the brakes on. I know SS' vote wasn't the strongest thing, and I can see where people might have found that Dylan post about his reasoning authentic-sounding (I don't but I can kind of see it I guess), but it seemed like it never gained as much momentum as it seemed like it had and everyone but me bailed hard ASAP.

I kind of think that town!Dylan gets pushed harder by scum in that situation, to try to push the mislynch through or to make someone like me or faust look scummy for pushing it or something but it was just kind of shrugged off by everyone or actively pushed against. The post can't have been that towny even to people more familiar with Dylan, some of that is surely from town, but scum also kept silent on Dylan, backed off hard, or defended him, and that makes me want to lynch him.

I would buy that if it was later in the game, but at this point in day 1 -- although admittedly we're close to the deadline -- I think scum is fairly likely not to pursue a 'promising' looking wagon on town.

Also, couldn't the same be said about my wagon?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: silverspawn on December 19, 2018, 02:36:47 pm
Is that actually a thing? Wow, I'm going to mis-vote almost every single time.

Vote: DatSwan

It's probably a thing. There's a list of nicknames for each person, so "mc" will work for mcmc and 'Swan' probably works for 'DatSwan' but 'Darswan' might not work.

But I also went back and checked and I typed it exactly right before.

well, maybe EFHW did it by hand and just missed it.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on December 19, 2018, 02:37:04 pm
Theory question (humor me, I'm rusty): How bad is it for town if we end up no-lynching because we fail to reach consensus?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: silverspawn on December 19, 2018, 02:43:00 pm
Theory question (humor me, I'm rusty): How bad is it for town if we end up no-lynching because we fail to reach consensus?

The setup portion of that mostly depends on the number of cops in the game. Which in expectation is like one half, so not many. then it depends on how much you think it matters for our reads day 2. I'd say it's in between somewhat bad and pretty bad.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Galzria on December 19, 2018, 02:43:55 pm
Theory question (humor me, I'm rusty): How bad is it for town if we end up no-lynching because we fail to reach consensus?

For me, more than anything, the loss of information regarding the flip - the who's and the why's of where people go to successfully land a lynch, be it on town or on scum - is the biggest pitfall of a no-lynch, especially D1. All of these interactions that we've established don't have a lot of meaning if there's nothing to measure them against.

Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: silverspawn on December 19, 2018, 02:47:17 pm
Did a PoE of swan. At first I was like "mhm" and then I was like "mmmno".

This is all based on gut, so... but still I don't think he's a good lynch.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on December 19, 2018, 02:53:50 pm
I think some of you haven't gotten the 'vote counts are automated' memo yet (assuming EFHW is using space's program). If your vote doesn't count, it's probably because of spelling. Space doesn't ignore casing, so if you say Datswan rather than DatSwan, it probably won't be counted.

I'm going to find this really obnoxious. Not the tool being limited but the votes-that-the-tool-misses-don't-count part.

Like how many m's does Jimmmmmmmmmmmmmm have? Does anyone really know?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on December 19, 2018, 02:55:50 pm
Also, couldn't the same be said about my wagon?

Your wagon didn't get nearly so universal pushback and abandonment.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on December 19, 2018, 03:00:28 pm
Theory question (humor me, I'm rusty): How bad is it for town if we end up no-lynching because we fail to reach consensus?

Terrible, I'd lynch my townreads before no-lynching.

With an odd playercount I wouldn't lynch an actual IC or claimed cop or something, but otherwise whoever, it's the one case where I'd self-vote.  The even number of players makes it less bad than with an odd number of players because it just converts an endgame MYLO into LYLO if we don't have a doctor save or vig kill or anything, but if we do have any roles like that that would change us to odd numbers it is still absolutely terrible and tons of roles can kill or prevent a kill, much better to no-lynch at MYLO later.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: silverspawn on December 19, 2018, 03:02:30 pm
I think some of you haven't gotten the 'vote counts are automated' memo yet (assuming EFHW is using space's program). If your vote doesn't count, it's probably because of spelling. Space doesn't ignore casing, so if you say Datswan rather than DatSwan, it probably won't be counted.

I'm going to find this really obnoxious. Not the tool being limited but the votes-that-the-tool-misses-don't-count part.

Like how many m's does Jimmmmmmmmmmmmmm have? Does anyone really know?

For my tool, I have the possible abbreviations jim > jimm > jimmm > jimmmm > jimmmmm > jimmmmmm > jimmmmmmm > jimmmmmmmm > jimmmmmmmmm > jimmmmmmmmmm

so it's hard to go wrong. I assume Space is similarly generous.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: silverspawn on December 19, 2018, 03:04:00 pm
Did a PoE of swan. At first I was like "mhm" and then I was like "mmmno".

wait no not a poe. there's a term for a one-player reread but I forgot what it was. that thing.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on December 19, 2018, 03:04:57 pm
Did a PoE of swan. At first I was like "mhm" and then I was like "mmmno".

wait no not a poe. there's a term for a one-player reread but I forgot what it was. that thing.
ISO
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Galzria on December 19, 2018, 03:08:28 pm
Did a PoE of swan. At first I was like "mhm" and then I was like "mmmno".

wait no not a poe. there's a term for a one-player reread but I forgot what it was. that thing.

Targeted Reread? Single Person Analysis? I dunno.

Who would you prefer more? What are your thoughts on UoS? I'm curious if I'm the only one getting this massive under-the-radar scum vibe from them (probably a scum vibe because I don't think I've ever gotten an "under-the-radar town vibe" before? lol). It's not like they haven't posted, or aren't posting now, or aren't participating... I'm just gut reading scummy, without being able to put my finger on it.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: silverspawn on December 19, 2018, 03:13:07 pm
Did a PoE of swan. At first I was like "mhm" and then I was like "mmmno".

wait no not a poe. there's a term for a one-player reread but I forgot what it was. that thing.
ISO

Yes, thanks.

Who would you prefer more?

Most people more, but Jim the most

What are your thoughts on UoS?

Towny. I'm not getting any of the scum vibes you speak of.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Galzria on December 19, 2018, 03:16:35 pm
What are your thoughts on UoS?

Towny. I'm not getting any of the scum vibes you speak of.

That's fair. I can't really give a good reason for my read, so it shouldn't be expected that others share it.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Galzria on December 19, 2018, 03:17:43 pm
Who would you prefer more?

Most people more, but Jim the most

I would vote Jimmm to see a lynch, but definitely find Swan to be scummier.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on December 19, 2018, 03:22:50 pm
The Jimmmmm lynch seems eminently viable. Maybe too viable.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Galzria on December 19, 2018, 03:31:33 pm
The Jimmmmm lynch seems eminently viable. Maybe too viable.

The people that have voted Jimmm, and in order are:

Faust (57)
Joth (61)
Joth (224) (intent at 215, bad formatting)
Silver (243)
Swan (275)
Robz (313)

And then I just said that I would to get a lynch.

I believe the highest his wagon has been is 3.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on December 19, 2018, 03:38:35 pm
Vote Count 1.7

DatSwan (4): Dylan32, Galzria, jotheonah, Robz888
Dylan32 (2): UmbrageOfSnow, Jimmmmm
silverspawn (2): ashersky, mcmcsalot
mcmcsalot (1): LaLight
Jimmmmm (1): silverspawn
Galzria (2): faust, DatSwan

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
D1 ends at 11am Czech time (5am Forum Time) on Thursday 20th December. That's in a little under 13.5 hours.

Note on vote counts: EFHW is not using my vote counter, but I'll run the final count for D1. I have plenty of variations on "Jimmmmm" on the alias list. I want to make it very clear that typos in usernames risk them not being counted (I may or may not have already allowed them), and that this is a good thing because allowing players too much leeway in how to announce their votes makes the game less inclusive for players who don't have the same meta history or cultural references to work with.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on December 19, 2018, 03:47:35 pm
No lynching would be terrible.

If it were up to me, somebody would get DS to L-1 soon, so we can give him time to claim, and give ourselves an end of day option.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on December 19, 2018, 03:48:50 pm
The Jimmmmm lynch seems eminently viable. Maybe too viable.

The people that have voted Jimmm, and in order are:

Faust (57)
Joth (61)
Joth (224) (intent at 215, bad formatting)
Silver (243)
Swan (275)
Robz (313)

And then I just said that I would to get a lynch.

I believe the highest his wagon has been is 3.

So that's six players. Assuming they're all still feeling it, we would need to convince one of UoS, LaLight,  Dylan, mcmc, and ashersky to go along.

So yeah. Super doable.

I was going to say that this should worry us because easy lynches are town lynches, but I talked myself out of it. I'm in. And I'm about to drop off availability-wise so I'll move my vote now.

vote: Jimmmmm
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Galzria on December 19, 2018, 03:51:06 pm
The Jimmmmm lynch seems eminently viable. Maybe too viable.

The people that have voted Jimmm, and in order are:

Faust (57)
Joth (61)
Joth (224) (intent at 215, bad formatting)
Silver (243)
Swan (275)
Robz (313)

And then I just said that I would to get a lynch.

I believe the highest his wagon has been is 3.

So that's six players. Assuming they're all still feeling it, we would need to convince one of UoS, LaLight,  Dylan, mcmc, and ashersky to go along.

So yeah. Super doable.

I was going to say that this should worry us because easy lynches are town lynches, but I talked myself out of it. I'm in. And I'm about to drop off availability-wise so I'll move my vote now.

vote: Jimmmmm

No lynching would be terrible.

If it were up to me, somebody would get DS to L-1 soon, so we can give him time to claim, and give ourselves an end of day option.

D1 ends at 11am Czech time (5am Forum Time) on Thursday 20th December. That's in a little under 13.5 hours.

13.5 hours is still plenty of time. If you prefer DatSwan to Jimmm, I would suggest staying on DatSwan.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on December 19, 2018, 03:57:25 pm
The Jimmmmm lynch seems eminently viable. Maybe too viable.

The people that have voted Jimmm, and in order are:

Faust (57)
Joth (61)
Joth (224) (intent at 215, bad formatting)
Silver (243)
Swan (275)
Robz (313)

And then I just said that I would to get a lynch.

I believe the highest his wagon has been is 3.

So that's six players. Assuming they're all still feeling it, we would need to convince one of UoS, LaLight,  Dylan, mcmc, and ashersky to go along.

So yeah. Super doable.

I was going to say that this should worry us because easy lynches are town lynches, but I talked myself out of it. I'm in. And I'm about to drop off availability-wise so I'll move my vote now.

vote: Jimmmmm

No lynching would be terrible.

If it were up to me, somebody would get DS to L-1 soon, so we can give him time to claim, and give ourselves an end of day option.

D1 ends at 11am Czech time (5am Forum Time) on Thursday 20th December. That's in a little under 13.5 hours.

13.5 hours is still plenty of time. If you prefer DatSwan to Jimmm, I would suggest staying on DatSwan.

In a vacuum, it's plenty of time. Given the speed at which this game has been moving, it's a very short time. Also consider that many of us will be asleep for the last 6 or so of those 13 hours.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Galzria on December 19, 2018, 04:02:17 pm
The Jimmmmm lynch seems eminently viable. Maybe too viable.

The people that have voted Jimmm, and in order are:

Faust (57)
Joth (61)
Joth (224) (intent at 215, bad formatting)
Silver (243)
Swan (275)
Robz (313)

And then I just said that I would to get a lynch.

I believe the highest his wagon has been is 3.

So that's six players. Assuming they're all still feeling it, we would need to convince one of UoS, LaLight,  Dylan, mcmc, and ashersky to go along.

So yeah. Super doable.

I was going to say that this should worry us because easy lynches are town lynches, but I talked myself out of it. I'm in. And I'm about to drop off availability-wise so I'll move my vote now.

vote: Jimmmmm

No lynching would be terrible.

If it were up to me, somebody would get DS to L-1 soon, so we can give him time to claim, and give ourselves an end of day option.

D1 ends at 11am Czech time (5am Forum Time) on Thursday 20th December. That's in a little under 13.5 hours.

13.5 hours is still plenty of time. If you prefer DatSwan to Jimmm, I would suggest staying on DatSwan.

In a vacuum, it's plenty of time. Given the speed at which this game has been moving, it's a very short time. Also consider that many of us will be asleep for the last 6 or so of those 13 hours.

Your second point has some validity - my argument against the first would require you to skim the last 20 or so most recent games, where you'll find that like, 20% of D1 posts come within the 3-4 hours leading up to deadline (or at least, it definitely feels that way). Point being, a slow 6.75 real life days says nothing about how the last .25 will go.

Still, yes - deadline is 2:00am for me, and 5:00am for others here. While I'll likely be up/around, there may be a few people that are not.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on December 19, 2018, 04:04:44 pm
I'll move back to vote: DatSwan for a few more hours, Galz. For you. I really need to go now for irl stuff, but I'll probably check back in around 7 or 8 pm forum time. Hopefully ... things of some kind will happen.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Dylan32 on December 19, 2018, 04:06:23 pm
Just reread Jimmmmm. I could move, and would like that more than some of the other options that have been mentioned, but would rather stay on DatSwan.

I'll be off and on this evening, but won't be on at all in the morning.

ppe 1
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on December 19, 2018, 04:23:57 pm
The total and complete lack of interest in Dylan has me itching to lynch Dylan more and more.

That said, I'd prefer DerSwan to Jimmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, so

Vote: DatSwan
L-2
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on December 19, 2018, 04:36:39 pm
so should Galzria's
Sorry!
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 19, 2018, 04:59:21 pm
I still like silver lynch the best but doesnít look to be going anywhere I donít like the jimm wagon but would vote datswan or galzria
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 19, 2018, 05:00:38 pm
Actually vote: datswan L-1

Claim time.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: DatSwan on December 19, 2018, 05:15:29 pm
Yeah I was gonna do it anyways at L-2 so we have time...
you all suck! (just kidding)

I am a Mason. I am not claiming my partner. We should lynch Galz.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: silverspawn on December 19, 2018, 05:25:34 pm
Ok. Well, the prior for masons is roughly 45%. scum could fake claim but probably won't. I also don't think DatSwan was guaranteed to be lynched.

So we shouldn't lynch him for sure. Maybe go Jim instead?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: DatSwan on December 19, 2018, 05:27:05 pm
Jimm would be my second choice at this point.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: DatSwan on December 19, 2018, 05:28:13 pm
actually Galz-Robz-Jimm in that order.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Galzria on December 19, 2018, 05:29:53 pm
Ok. Well, the prior for masons is roughly 45%. scum could fake claim but probably won't. I also don't think DatSwan was guaranteed to be lynched.

So we shouldn't lynch him for sure. Maybe go Jim instead?

Jimmm could happen. It should be noted that if scum were going to fakeclaim Mason, this is exactly how they would do so - by refusing to announce their partner so as to not incriminate another player.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Galzria on December 19, 2018, 05:32:42 pm
Vote: Jimmmm
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: silverspawn on December 19, 2018, 05:37:33 pm
Ok. Well, the prior for masons is roughly 45%. scum could fake claim but probably won't. I also don't think DatSwan was guaranteed to be lynched.

So we shouldn't lynch him for sure. Maybe go Jim instead?

Jimmm could happen. It should be noted that if scum were going to fakeclaim Mason, this is exactly how they would do so - by refusing to announce their partner so as to not incriminate another player.


Yeah, but any sensible town would do it like this, too.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Galzria on December 19, 2018, 05:42:58 pm
Ok. Well, the prior for masons is roughly 45%. scum could fake claim but probably won't. I also don't think DatSwan was guaranteed to be lynched.

So we shouldn't lynch him for sure. Maybe go Jim instead?

Jimmm could happen. It should be noted that if scum were going to fakeclaim Mason, this is exactly how they would do so - by refusing to announce their partner so as to not incriminate another player.


Yeah, but any sensible town would do it like this, too.

Yes, which is why Iím not insisting on trying to lynch him anyway. The claim itself, in this manner, is neither scummy nor townie.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Galzria on December 19, 2018, 05:45:13 pm
What are the chances of a 3M roll? If thereís a UB in play that did NOT auto-convert to Mason, should they claim and we lynch Swan?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on December 19, 2018, 05:49:10 pm
Okay, Vote: Jimmmm

Note to DatSwan: you should stop giving reads if you wish to preserve your partner's anonymity (unless you're doing a fake out).
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: silverspawn on December 19, 2018, 05:51:47 pm
What are the chances of a 3M roll?

Not conditioning on the mason claim, three M it's 1,458%. Three or more M is 1,585%.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: silverspawn on December 19, 2018, 05:54:54 pm
If thereís a UB in play that did NOT auto-convert to Mason, should they claim and we lynch Swan?

Good question. I think they answer is yes, they should claim.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: silverspawn on December 19, 2018, 05:55:02 pm
*the
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: DatSwan on December 19, 2018, 06:00:08 pm
What are the chances of a 3M roll? If thereís a UB in play that did NOT auto-convert to Mason, should they claim and we lynch Swan?

What do you do if that happens and i flip mason?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: silverspawn on December 19, 2018, 06:06:56 pm
What are the chances of a 3M roll? If thereís a UB in play that did NOT auto-convert to Mason, should they claim and we lynch Swan?

What do you do if that happens and i flip mason?

Be very annoyed that such an unlikely coincidence happened which will presumably cause various people to claim that arguments based on math aren't reliable in the future.

But if a UB actually claims, what would happen is that you'd claim your partner, at which point we might actually postpone the lynch, since now scum is fairly allin.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: silverspawn on December 19, 2018, 06:07:48 pm
But very likely we flipped one M and have a mason pair.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: DatSwan on December 19, 2018, 06:13:20 pm
Okay, Vote: Jimmmm

Note to DatSwan: you should stop giving reads if you wish to preserve your partner's anonymity (unless you're doing a fake out).

interesting time for you speak up on the matter
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: DatSwan on December 19, 2018, 06:52:29 pm
I feel the need to point out that if I were skum fake claiming I think one would be better fit to choose something other than a mason fake claim. Personally, I would of claimed 1 shot doctor in this spot as skum. It sets up for tomorrow to force a real doctor to have to out their results to explain why I am still alive, or if they existed, maybe they would even proc me in that spot, idk. But the mason claim, as we are here right now, would just be stupid. How does that play out?

1) I claim mason, don't claim partner.
2a) Real masons (assuming I am skum) could claim.
2b) The whole UB claim could happen, which (if I were skum) I would have to assume is at least moderately likely.
3) Either way it plays out, it will end up with me having to claim a partner.... which... if I were skum is pretty much game over for me at that point.

Now that all sounds like skummy defense for me saying if there is a UB they should not claim. It IS defense of me saying that  if there is a UB they should keep quiet... but I do not intend for it to be skummy.
The concept just leads to so many PRs outing themselves so early on. That is exactly what skum would want to push in this scenario. Exactly the opposite is what I am suggesting. I think in order from best to worse it goes:

1) lynch someone that is not me (or my partner)
2) lynch me
3) have the UB claim and go down that path.


I do not think that in this set up that skum would fake claim UB here. I get lynched, they kill partner at night, UB gets lynched tomorrow. Just the same, if there is a UB in the game, if they were to claim it would go the same - I get lynched, they kill my partner at night, UB gets lynched tomorrow. So of course SKUM WOULD WANT TO PROMOTE A UB CLAIM because it gives them one extra PR they know. I would much rather us either lynch someone that is not me and keep my partner and the UB unknown, or if you must, lynch me and at least there will be a unknown pair of masons left in the game if the UB exists. In both of those scenarios I am the only known PR that is does not make it to tomorrow - sort of a limiting the damage concept.

Damn this is a hard point to push from my current spot. Anyone at all in the game that sees the point I am making here?

Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on December 19, 2018, 06:58:36 pm
Vote: Galz

Still prefer Dylan.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on December 19, 2018, 07:05:00 pm
Ok. Well, the prior for masons is roughly 45%. scum could fake claim but probably won't. I also don't think DatSwan was guaranteed to be lynched.

So we shouldn't lynch him for sure. Maybe go Jim instead?

Jimmm could happen. It should be noted that if scum were going to fakeclaim Mason, this is exactly how they would do so - by refusing to announce their partner so as to not incriminate another player.


Yeah, but any sensible town would do it like this, too.

Yes, which is why Iím not insisting on trying to lynch him anyway. The claim itself, in this manner, is neither scummy nor townie.

I disagree. If scum claims Mason and survives for long enough, the partner/s will also have to claim.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: DatSwan on December 19, 2018, 07:08:55 pm
Ok. Well, the prior for masons is roughly 45%. scum could fake claim but probably won't. I also don't think DatSwan was guaranteed to be lynched.

So we shouldn't lynch him for sure. Maybe go Jim instead?

Jimmm could happen. It should be noted that if scum were going to fakeclaim Mason, this is exactly how they would do so - by refusing to announce their partner so as to not incriminate another player.


Yeah, but any sensible town would do it like this, too.

Yes, which is why Iím not insisting on trying to lynch him anyway. The claim itself, in this manner, is neither scummy nor townie.

I disagree. If scum claims Mason and survives for long enough, the partner/s will also have to claim.

I cannot imagine a scenario in which a skum claiming mason survives long enough in this game here that they would have a partner risk fake claiming instead of just accepting death.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: DatSwan on December 19, 2018, 07:09:40 pm
Ok. Well, the prior for masons is roughly 45%. scum could fake claim but probably won't. I also don't think DatSwan was guaranteed to be lynched.

So we shouldn't lynch him for sure. Maybe go Jim instead?

Jimmm could happen. It should be noted that if scum were going to fakeclaim Mason, this is exactly how they would do so - by refusing to announce their partner so as to not incriminate another player.


Yeah, but any sensible town would do it like this, too.

Yes, which is why Iím not insisting on trying to lynch him anyway. The claim itself, in this manner, is neither scummy nor townie.

I disagree. If scum claims Mason and survives for long enough, the partner/s will also have to claim.

I cannot imagine a scenario in which a skum claiming mason survives long enough in this game here that they would have a partner risk fake claiming instead of just accepting death.

you know what I spoke too soon, I suppose I see your point.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on December 19, 2018, 07:28:34 pm
Vote Count 1.8

DatSwan (4): Dylan32, jotheonah, UmbrageOfSnow, mcmcsalot
silverspawn (1): ashersky
mcmcsalot (1): LaLight
Jimmmmm (3): silverspawn, Galzria, Robz888
Galzria (3): faust, DatSwan, Jimmmmm

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
D1 ends at 11am Czech time (5am Forum Time) on Thursday 20th December. That's in ~9.5 hours.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Dylan32 on December 19, 2018, 07:30:52 pm
Vote: Jimmmmm
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on December 19, 2018, 07:31:08 pm
vote: jimmmm

I would not like to lynch Galzria.

I donít believe Swan 100% but agree it would be a bizarre claim for scum to make.

There is one other option, which is to have the other Mason claim. Mason isnít like a hugely powerful power. If we force a partner claim, we either double up on scum if Swan is lying or we get some ICs. Sure scum can NK one, but thatís a shot theyíre not spending on a potential cop or doc.

Am I wrong? Say we lynch someone else and scum NKs Swan. Now his partner isnít even an IC, theyíre basically a VT. Double claim seems more valuable then.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Galzria on December 19, 2018, 07:58:39 pm
vote: jimmmm

I would not like to lynch Galzria.

I donít believe Swan 100% but agree it would be a bizarre claim for scum to make.

There is one other option, which is to have the other Mason claim. Mason isnít like a hugely powerful power. If we force a partner claim, we either double up on scum if Swan is lying or we get some ICs. Sure scum can NK one, but thatís a shot theyíre not spending on a potential cop or doc.

Am I wrong? Say we lynch someone else and scum NKs Swan. Now his partner isnít even an IC, theyíre basically a VT. Double claim seems more valuable then.

The advantage if Swan is scum is fairly obvious - it forces scum into revealing two players. This still relies on either one of them dying and flipping, or a cop investigating to reveal a guilty result, incriminating both. It's worth noting that scum is gifted a Godfather in this setup, so this could all go very wrong, and get very messy very quickly.

The advantage if Swan is town is a little more complex. The other Mason claiming wouldn't IC either of them - it would simply tie them together. As you note, they're essentially VT's at that point in that they aren't any real threat as a PR. Scum doesn't really have any incentive to kill them - especially if they think that there may be prolonged suspicion on the Masons. If they DID choose to kill one, it would immediately IC the other for the following day, and honestly there isn't much need for them to do that. So what you get if Swan is town and the other Mason claims is two VT's that likely don't get killed at night, and you can't really fully trust to actually be town and not scum. A cop could investigate them, but because of the existence of the Godfather, even that wouldn't completely clear the pair.

So.... meh. I don't think the advantages that you're thinking exist are as clear cut as it seems.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on December 19, 2018, 08:07:16 pm
Okay, let's make this seem a bit less inevitable:

Vote: Galzria

I will check in once more before bed in a few hours.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 19, 2018, 08:24:38 pm
unvote the jimm lynch is a coinflip. I do think the the mason should not claim purely based on the scenario that galz laid out.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on December 19, 2018, 08:43:13 pm
unvote the jimm lynch is a coinflip. I do think the the mason should not claim purely based on the scenario that galz laid out.

I donít think so. Iíve been finding him scummy all day.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 19, 2018, 09:31:15 pm
unvote the jimm lynch is a coinflip. I do think the the mason should not claim purely based on the scenario that galz laid out.

I donít think so. Iíve been finding him scummy all day.

Can you sum up the case, sorry if itís been said.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: EFHW on December 19, 2018, 09:56:52 pm

Vote Count 1.9

silverspawn (1): ashersky
mcmcsalot (1): LaLight
Jimmmmm (5): silverspawn, Galzria, Robz888, Dylan, jotheonah
Galzria (4): faust, DatSwan, Jimmmmm, UmbrageofSnow

Not voting (1): mcmsalot

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
D1 ends at 11am Czech time (5am Forum Time) on Thursday 20th December. That's in ~7 hours. FYI, his probably the last vc until 4 a.m.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on December 19, 2018, 10:09:50 pm
It's all about this:

Looking at what seem to have been the major lynch candidates, I think mcmc and Dylan are scummyish and DatSwan is Towny.

Scummy for a few reasons. One, it was early in the day to be talking about lynch candidates, which was basically silver's case:

There's only been one thing in this game that strikes me as legitimately scummy, and that's this post

Looking at what seem to have been the major lynch candidates, I think mcmc and Dylan are scummyish and DatSwan is Towny.

I'm still in the 'early day one' mindest, and regardless of how early it is, I suspect town is more likely to feel like that then scum. Conversely, scum is more likely to have an awareness of who the 'majjor lynch candidates' are.

Put differently, I think town is less likely to think of anyone as a major candidate.

But then faust actually asked a useful question for once.

Looking at what seem to have been the major lynch candidates, I think mcmc and Dylan are scummyish and DatSwan is Towny.
Any reason you put down mcmc as major lynch candidate and not silver (who has the same number of votes)?
No. I'll have a look at silver.
Two things about this.
(1) It was potentially scummy to make a list of major lynch candidates and arbitrarily include and not include two people who have exactly the same number of votes.
(2) Jimmmmm's follow-up on his look at silver is pretty perfunctory:

I'm null on silver.

Vote: Dylan

But the real case is just ... reread him. There's almost no useful contributions, but a lot of votes and just enough fluff and theory talk to not be a lurker. I feel like it's a textbook execution of a particular way of playing scum.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on December 19, 2018, 10:25:25 pm
Look, it's not a slam dunk. But it's better than 50/50.

And I really don't know where Team Galz is coming from. They're also most of the members of Team Doesn't-Explain-Their-Votes.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Robz888 on December 19, 2018, 10:44:42 pm
Jimmmm is fine, Dylan is also fine.

We do NOT need DatSwan's partner to claim, IMO.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on December 19, 2018, 11:02:41 pm
this is proooobably the wrong time for this but I AM drunk so, for olf times sake...

drunkAMA
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Dylan32 on December 19, 2018, 11:15:08 pm
Almost forgot to put it in thread, but I will be VLA from Christmas Eve through New Years Day, the holidays themselves V, in between very LA for working at a conference, but I might be able to at least read and stay kind of caught up.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Galzria on December 19, 2018, 11:15:50 pm
this is proooobably the wrong time for this but I AM drunk so, for olf times sake...

drunkAMA

Home from work now. ĎBout to start.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on December 19, 2018, 11:21:26 pm
this is proooobably the wrong time for this but I AM drunk so, for olf times sake...

drunkAMA

Home from work now. ĎBout to start.

You ever have Old Forrester's Bourbon? It's my absolute favorite.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Galzria on December 19, 2018, 11:27:16 pm
this is proooobably the wrong time for this but I AM drunk so, for olf times sake...

drunkAMA

Home from work now. ĎBout to start.

You ever have Old Forrester's Bourbon? It's my absolute favorite.

I havenít... right now I have Willett Reserve, Woodford Reserve & Angelís Envy... Iíll look into Old Forresterís... but also, should probably have this in a separate thread lol.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on December 19, 2018, 11:31:33 pm
You're probably right. Anyway, that's a good array of whiskeys. I'm a little jelly.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: DatSwan on December 19, 2018, 11:35:21 pm
Jimmmm is fine, Dylan is also fine.

We do NOT need DatSwan's partner to claim, IMO.

Why did Galz fall off your ďfine listĒ?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: DatSwan on December 19, 2018, 11:36:29 pm
Also jimmmmmm you out there bro beans?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 19, 2018, 11:46:40 pm
No lynch would be horrible and I have to leave now until deadline. My problem with the case on jimm is heís playing like jimm plays. Ugh there is no non jimm or galz thing thatís happening. Im going to vote: galz so him and jimm are at l-2 and I trust people to get one through.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on December 19, 2018, 11:53:45 pm
No lynch would be horrible and I have to leave now until deadline. My problem with the case on jimm is heís playing like jimm plays. Ugh there is no non jimm or galz thing thatís happening. Im going to vote: galz so him and jimm are at l-2 and I trust people to get one through.

Proposition for you: vote for Jimmmmm instead. Why get two people to L-2 when you could get one person to L-1? Especially after I put all that work into that lovely case for you.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on December 19, 2018, 11:54:06 pm
sheep your town read Robz
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on December 20, 2018, 12:07:00 am
Alright, well I also have to go to bed.

There's five more hours til deadline.

If we end up no lynching, FoS the people who aren't on either wagon. That's ashersky and lalight. Time for you two to make a decision, and preferably the same one.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on December 20, 2018, 12:20:06 am
It's all about this:

Looking at what seem to have been the major lynch candidates, I think mcmc and Dylan are scummyish and DatSwan is Towny.

Scummy for a few reasons. One, it was early in the day to be talking about lynch candidates, which was basically silver's case:

I guess you thought I meant "the only lynch candidates"? I don't think it's ever too early to be talking about lynch candidates - everyone who isn't an IC or made some claim is a lynch candidate and whenever you vote or make a case you're promoting the lynching of that candidate.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Dylan32 on December 20, 2018, 12:21:55 am
I'm gonna run a load of laundry so I can travel in the morning, so I can move to Galz if needed to avoid no lynch if only one of the people off wagon come around while I'm up, but I would rather stay on Jimmmmm from a reads perspective. They aren't super far apart on my list, but Jimmm is a few shades scummier.

ppe 1 Oh hi Jimmmmm
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on December 20, 2018, 12:24:36 am
But the real case is just ... reread him. There's almost no useful contributions, but a lot of votes and just enough fluff and theory talk to not be a lurker. I feel like it's a textbook execution of a particular way of playing scum.

This is not a case. I can just easily say it's a textbook execution of a particular way of playing Town.

If you want to lynch me I probably won't fight too hard against it. I'm a fine Day 1 lynch - not a great "catch scum" lynch but a fine "progress the game" lynch. Much better than lynching Swan or forcing the partner to claim.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on December 20, 2018, 12:33:15 am
I don't have any super strong reads or cases, but what I look for in Day 1 are people who either seem more sure about someone than they should be, or decribe what people do as "weird" etc so they can appear to be scumhunting without actually having to fight argue strongly against someone. So, some thoughts on Dylan:

We really have to give Faust a day 1 pass, at any rate. Letís not do scumís job for them. If heís alive tomorrowósomething that quite literally almost never happensóIíll reconsider.

This feels lining-up-future-mislynches scummy.

As someone mentioned, scum never does this, and I would say this type of argument comes more often from scum than from Town.

Yeah silver's last few posts sounded weird when I first read them, but I guess you can (and frequently do) have reasons for votes in RVS, so an RVS vote with an explanation isn't an oxymoron like I was thinking at first I guess.

Describes silver as weird,  but doesn't really conclude anything.

Vote: DatSwan for a reason that I'm not gonna share right now.

This and what follow feel like trying to make arguments he would make as Town.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on December 20, 2018, 12:52:18 am
Sadly I don't think Dylan can happen today.

I'm here for a little bit, but have to sleep soon.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Galzria on December 20, 2018, 12:52:43 am
Mcmc definitely comes across as the scummiest player to me - his opening post and vote on Swan feel VERY much like he's jumping in by leaning into his "I always fight with Swan" meta (which is DEFINITELY a thing that happens between them). But it's just so bloody obvious that... I can't decide if I feel like Mcmc is faking it, or if he's actually scummy because of it. Because I honestly believe that town!Mcmc would fake it for his own personal reasons, I'm hesitant to consider a lynch here.

Speaking of mcmc, I've found Datswan to be rather scummy as well. He too played in to the "I always fight with Mcmc" meta - but in a way that does NOT read like he's faking it for potentially pro-town reasons. Rather, his play feels much more like he's trying to force a match with his town meta, whereas Mcmc feels like he's almost intentionally being scummy. I would support this lynch.

For now, I think I'm going to join Dylan on vote: Datswan. I think that was, and is, the best wagon we've had today.

Iím confused. Can you elaborate on the underlined portion? I can go on record saying I absolutely do not fake things as town for the purpose of lookin more towny or for the purpose of helping a town or scum meta. Itís strange how you start saying I come across as the scummiest and then say you are hesitant to consider a lynch on me. Then you explain that you also find datswan scummy and even vote datswan. How then do you feel like I was scummy for going at datswan and finding him scummy?

I'll do my best.

When I read the thread, start to finish, and try to remove any pre-conceived bias or reads that I may have already have formed (which, I'll admit, I'm not completely capable of doing), you come across as extremely scummy. So does Datswan. Both of your opening set of posts where you vote for one another feel extremely disengenuous and as you both have a strong established meta of clashing with each other, it feels very forced.

So what's different about my reads on you two? The best I can describe it is that your posts for Swan feel like you're TRYING to be scummy - it feels over the top and obvious. From a town perspective, there are plenty of reasons to want to be slightly scum read. You could be a PR trying to avoid a NK. You could be a VT trying to pull a NK based on the previous sentance. I've seen both from multiple players, in multiple scenario's. I've done the second recently (M117 I think? I was VT and played D1 overly scummy with a very soft Cop claim that scum picked up on N1).

Swan on the other hand, reads more serious. Maybe it's that he came second and you first, but he reads to me like he's playing into the "mcmc and I always fight" meta because he's trying to appear like his town-self. It just doesn't give me the same vibes that there could be an alterior town motivation for playing it out that way.

Both of you open by playing into this same, pre-established meta. I could be over-reading on you, and maybe you're just scum trying to blend in to your town meta, as I'm suspicious of Swan for doing. But for neither of you does this come across as genuine. I just find it easier to believe there's a town motivation for you than I do for Swan.

In the end, for both of you to be town and to have opened the way you both did feels really, really strange to me. I just don't feel it. And I have an easier time seeing you posting in the fashion you did as town than I do seeing Swan posting in the fashion that he did as town - so while I'm hesitant to want to vote you, I have no problem voting Swan.

Last Galz post reads like a super well hidden agenda to get two players he knows are town lynched.

We really have to give Faust a day 1 pass, at any rate. Letís not do scumís job for them. If heís alive tomorrowósomething that quite literally almost never happensóIíll reconsider.

This feels lining-up-future-mislynches scummy.

As someone mentioned, scum never does this, and I would say this type of argument comes more often from scum than from Town.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on December 20, 2018, 12:57:18 am
I'm glad someone wrote up the actual case on Jimmm, because it feels like more of a case for him being Jimmm than being scum.  Not saying he should get a free pass on lurking but what exactly is the deal there? I feel like Jimmmm is maybe slightly less likely to flip scum than random here.

Galz isn't my preferred lynch either, but I'd give him slightly more likely than average to flip scum, based on the big reads post.  Inclined to leave my vote there when I go to bed.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on December 20, 2018, 12:58:46 am
Yeah, that's a big part of why Swan was the first to L-1
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on December 20, 2018, 01:14:53 am
Here. Sorry, got ill and sleeping all the time
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on December 20, 2018, 01:15:18 am
vote: Jimmmmm, L-1 I believe
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on December 20, 2018, 01:15:54 am
But the real case is just ... reread him. There's almost no useful contributions, but a lot of votes and just enough fluff and theory talk to not be a lurker. I feel like it's a textbook execution of a particular way of playing scum.

This is not a case. I can just easily say it's a textbook execution of a particular way of playing Town.

If you want to lynch me I probably won't fight too hard against it. I'm a fine Day 1 lynch - not a great "catch scum" lynch but a fine "progress the game" lynch. Much better than lynching Swan or forcing the partner to claim.

For this post only. This is a really scummy thing to say
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on December 20, 2018, 01:17:17 am
Itís soft claiming VT without any actual reason to and pretending to be not caring. I myself did it in one game and Awaclus caught me on it (i was scum)
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Dylan32 on December 20, 2018, 01:47:51 am
Well, I hope someone on Galz wakes up and switches, cuz I've stayed on as long as I can. I actually like LL's point here and feel good about Jimmmmm's flip as long as someone actually wakes up in time to hammer.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 20, 2018, 01:58:55 am
I'm here!

I guess you guys sorted out the claiming situation. I agree with the way it's being played for now I think. Since I have some hours left and we now have a probably town wagon to analyze, I'll put in some work before any sort of final decision is made.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on December 20, 2018, 02:01:31 am
But the real case is just ... reread him. There's almost no useful contributions, but a lot of votes and just enough fluff and theory talk to not be a lurker. I feel like it's a textbook execution of a particular way of playing scum.

This is not a case. I can just easily say it's a textbook execution of a particular way of playing Town.

If you want to lynch me I probably won't fight too hard against it. I'm a fine Day 1 lynch - not a great "catch scum" lynch but a fine "progress the game" lynch. Much better than lynching Swan or forcing the partner to claim.

For this post only. This is a really scummy thing to say

That's a pretty convenient excuse to jump on a wagon.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on December 20, 2018, 02:01:43 am
Well I'll go to sleep then, someone else can hammer Jimmm if they want, i'll leave the Galz option open.

LaLight's point is super dependent on context and timing, and the night of a late-night lynch I don't think it makes any kind of sense as a case but whatever.

Goodnight all
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 20, 2018, 02:11:33 am
Okay, I think Jimmmmm is town.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 20, 2018, 02:14:46 am
I'm just going to sit here for a while and hope for ashersky to turn up. And LaLight, I strongly suggest you switch to Galz.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 20, 2018, 02:15:46 am
Well I'll go to sleep then, someone else can hammer Jimmm if they want, i'll leave the Galz option open.

LaLight's point is super dependent on context and timing, and the night of a late-night lynch I don't think it makes any kind of sense as a case but whatever.

Goodnight all

UoS makes a lot of sense here.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on December 20, 2018, 03:03:55 am
Quick phone post. The lynch candidates post was like 2.5 days before deadline. Not early in the Day at all. Also joth is scummy for saying it's better than 50/50 on me which is clearly not true without a very strong case as there are many fewer scum than Town.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on December 20, 2018, 03:17:44 am
I'm just going to sit here for a while and hope for ashersky to turn up. And LaLight, I strongly suggest you switch to Galz.

Eh, no, thanks. Looks like you are waiting for even more claims to happen. Why so?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 20, 2018, 03:43:15 am
I'm just going to sit here for a while and hope for ashersky to turn up. And LaLight, I strongly suggest you switch to Galz.

Eh, no, thanks. Looks like you are waiting for even more claims to happen. Why so?
I'm not doing this. Galzria has posted at L-2 and decided not to claim. We can just lynch him.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 20, 2018, 03:44:06 am
Quick phone post. The lynch candidates post was like 2.5 days before deadline. Not early in the Day at all. Also joth is scummy for saying it's better than 50/50 on me which is clearly not true without a very strong case as there are many fewer scum than Town.
Well he's certainly wrong about it, but being bad at probability is not a scumtell.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: silverspawn on December 20, 2018, 03:45:33 am
Phone psting. Any1 here?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 20, 2018, 03:46:10 am
Phone psting. Any1 here?
Vote Galzria.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Galzria on December 20, 2018, 03:46:42 am
I'm just going to sit here for a while and hope for ashersky to turn up. And LaLight, I strongly suggest you switch to Galz.

Eh, no, thanks. Looks like you are waiting for even more claims to happen. Why so?
I'm not doing this. Galzria has posted at L-2 and decided not to claim. We can just lynch him.

Why would I do that? That serves no positive utility.

Jimmm has posted at L-1 and decided not to claim. You can just lynch him.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Galzria on December 20, 2018, 03:47:03 am
Phone psting. Any1 here?
Vote Galzria.

Vote Jimmm
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 20, 2018, 03:47:17 am
I'm just going to sit here for a while and hope for ashersky to turn up. And LaLight, I strongly suggest you switch to Galz.

Eh, no, thanks. Looks like you are waiting for even more claims to happen. Why so?
I'm not doing this. Galzria has posted at L-2 and decided not to claim. We can just lynch him.

Why would I do that? That serves no positive utility.

Jimmm has posted at L-1 and decided not to claim. You can just lynch him.
Yeah but Jimmmmm is town. Also virtually claimed.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Galzria on December 20, 2018, 03:48:22 am
I'm just going to sit here for a while and hope for ashersky to turn up. And LaLight, I strongly suggest you switch to Galz.

Eh, no, thanks. Looks like you are waiting for even more claims to happen. Why so?
I'm not doing this. Galzria has posted at L-2 and decided not to claim. We can just lynch him.

Why would I do that? That serves no positive utility.

Jimmm has posted at L-1 and decided not to claim. You can just lynch him.
Yeah but Jimmmmm is town. Also virtually claimed.

Iím more town, and a worse lynch choice.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 20, 2018, 03:48:37 am
Instead of antagonizing me, maybe you want to convince your supposed top townread of your innocence?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: silverspawn on December 20, 2018, 03:48:42 am
But jim is good lynch
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 20, 2018, 03:49:48 am
But jim is good lynch
No he's not. His wagon is scummy and his play is townie.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 20, 2018, 03:50:15 am
Do you think that Galz is not a good lynch?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 20, 2018, 03:52:08 am
Here's the deal: I am not going to hammer Jimmmmm. It's unclear whether anyone else that will do that will show up. However we do have the votes to lynch Galzria.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: silverspawn on December 20, 2018, 03:54:22 am
not in particular either way, I don't remember much about galz
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 20, 2018, 03:54:58 am
not in particular either way, I don't remember much about galz
So vote Galz. It's better than no lynch, which will likely happen otherwise.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Galzria on December 20, 2018, 03:56:00 am
not in particular either way, I don't remember much about galz
So vote Galz. It's better than no lynch, which will likely happen otherwise.

Only because you refuse to take a lynch when itís available. Way to shut down the game.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 20, 2018, 03:57:12 am
not in particular either way, I don't remember much about galz
So vote Galz. It's better than no lynch, which will likely happen otherwise.

Only because you refuse to take a lynch when itís available. Way to shut down the game.
silver and LaLight are refusing to take a lynch that is available every bit as much as I am.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on December 20, 2018, 03:58:54 am
I'll self hammer instead of no lynch. 1 hour right?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Galzria on December 20, 2018, 03:59:10 am
not in particular either way, I don't remember much about galz
So vote Galz. It's better than no lynch, which will likely happen otherwise.

Only because you refuse to take a lynch when itís available. Way to shut down the game.
silver and LaLight are refusing to take a lynch that is available every bit as much as I am.

Theyíre voting for a player whoís actually had a case built against them, instead of with someone whoís had 25% of his posts read ďJust vote GalzriaĒ and hasnít put any effort or reasons behind why.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 20, 2018, 04:00:26 am
I'll self hammer instead of no lynch. 1 hour right?
Come on don't do this to me.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 20, 2018, 04:00:42 am
Self-hammer is strictly worse than no lynch.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Galzria on December 20, 2018, 04:01:25 am
Self-hammer is strictly worse than no lynch.

This is true.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 20, 2018, 04:02:09 am
not in particular either way, I don't remember much about galz
So vote Galz. It's better than no lynch, which will likely happen otherwise.

Only because you refuse to take a lynch when itís available. Way to shut down the game.
silver and LaLight are refusing to take a lynch that is available every bit as much as I am.

Theyíre voting for a player whoís actually had a case built against them, instead of with someone whoís had 25% of his posts read ďJust vote GalzriaĒ and hasnít put any effort or reasons behind why.
Well they would be voting for someone who apparently cannot argue for his own townieness without having some case to argue against.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on December 20, 2018, 04:04:26 am
Why?

Still out and on phone btw
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on December 20, 2018, 04:05:06 am
Self-hammer is strictly worse than no lynch.

why
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 20, 2018, 04:06:58 am
Why?

Still out and on phone btw
We want to lynch someone with a chance of being scum. You know that you are not scum. Lynching a known town only serves scum. (Yes the rest of us would get "information" but that's no worth it.) Also we are an even number right now so no lynch is less bad than it would be normally because it doesn't cost us a lynch.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: DatSwan on December 20, 2018, 04:07:15 am
Self-hammer is strictly worse than no lynch.

This is true.

Says skum
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Galzria on December 20, 2018, 04:09:23 am
Self-hammer is strictly worse than no lynch.

This is true.

Says skum

Continuing your trend of 100% pointless posts this game? Seems right.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: DatSwan on December 20, 2018, 04:10:11 am
Self-hammer is strictly worse than no lynch.

This is true.

Says skum

Continuing your trend of 100% pointless posts this game? Seems right.

Right for my skum Meta you mean yeah?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Galzria on December 20, 2018, 04:11:29 am
not in particular either way, I don't remember much about galz
So vote Galz. It's better than no lynch, which will likely happen otherwise.

Only because you refuse to take a lynch when itís available. Way to shut down the game.
silver and LaLight are refusing to take a lynch that is available every bit as much as I am.

Theyíre voting for a player whoís actually had a case built against them, instead of with someone whoís had 25% of his posts read ďJust vote GalzriaĒ and hasnít put any effort or reasons behind why.
Well they would be voting for someone who apparently cannot argue for his own townieness without having some case to argue against.

Arguing why one is town is something scum does, not something town does.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Galzria on December 20, 2018, 04:12:36 am
Self-hammer is strictly worse than no lynch.

This is true.

Says skum

Continuing your trend of 100% pointless posts this game? Seems right.

Right for my skum Meta you mean yeah?

Right as in ďevery post youíve made this game has been pointlessĒ.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on December 20, 2018, 04:12:57 am
not in particular either way, I don't remember much about galz
So vote Galz. It's better than no lynch, which will likely happen otherwise.

Only because you refuse to take a lynch when itís available. Way to shut down the game.
silver and LaLight are refusing to take a lynch that is available every bit as much as I am.

Theyíre voting for a player whoís actually had a case built against them, instead of with someone whoís had 25% of his posts read ďJust vote GalzriaĒ and hasnít put any effort or reasons behind why.
Well they would be voting for someone who apparently cannot argue for his own townieness without having some case to argue against.

Arguing why one is town is something scum does, not something town does.
BS. Anyway got to go. Bye.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: DatSwan on December 20, 2018, 04:13:30 am
Self-hammer is strictly worse than no lynch.

This is true.

Says skum

Continuing your trend of 100% pointless posts this game? Seems right.

Right for my skum Meta you mean yeah?

Right as in ďevery post youíve made this game has been pointlessĒ.

Mhm
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: DatSwan on December 20, 2018, 04:19:44 am
not in particular either way, I don't remember much about galz
So vote Galz. It's better than no lynch, which will likely happen otherwise.

Only because you refuse to take a lynch when itís available. Way to shut down the game.
silver and LaLight are refusing to take a lynch that is available every bit as much as I am.

Theyíre voting for a player whoís actually had a case built against them, instead of with someone whoís had 25% of his posts read ďJust vote GalzriaĒ and hasnít put any effort or reasons behind why.

The case on you is based on you avoiding interaction. You have not been present except for the first 24 hours and the last 24 hours. It makes a perfect fefense for not being held accountable for any actions or non action throughout a day in the game where the more you talk the more you are noticed.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Galzria on December 20, 2018, 04:22:10 am
not in particular either way, I don't remember much about galz
So vote Galz. It's better than no lynch, which will likely happen otherwise.

Only because you refuse to take a lynch when itís available. Way to shut down the game.
silver and LaLight are refusing to take a lynch that is available every bit as much as I am.

Theyíre voting for a player whoís actually had a case built against them, instead of with someone whoís had 25% of his posts read ďJust vote GalzriaĒ and hasnít put any effort or reasons behind why.

The case on you is based on you avoiding interaction. You have not been present except for the first 24 hours and the last 24 hours. It makes a perfect fefense for not being held accountable for any actions or non action throughout a day in the game where the more you talk the more you are noticed.

Rich, coming from someone with fewer posts, fewer reads, and fewer interactions than me.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: DatSwan on December 20, 2018, 04:26:30 am
not in particular either way, I don't remember much about galz
So vote Galz. It's better than no lynch, which will likely happen otherwise.

Only because you refuse to take a lynch when itís available. Way to shut down the game.
silver and LaLight are refusing to take a lynch that is available every bit as much as I am.

Theyíre voting for a player whoís actually had a case built against them, instead of with someone whoís had 25% of his posts read ďJust vote GalzriaĒ and hasnít put any effort or reasons behind why.

My point, as i assume you are aware, was about the timing.

The case on you is based on you avoiding interaction. You have not been present except for the first 24 hours and the last 24 hours. It makes a perfect fefense for not being held accountable for any actions or non action throughout a day in the game where the more you talk the more you are noticed.

Rich, coming from someone with fewer posts, fewer reads, and fewer interactions than me.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Galzria on December 20, 2018, 04:26:38 am
not in particular either way, I don't remember much about galz
So vote Galz. It's better than no lynch, which will likely happen otherwise.

Only because you refuse to take a lynch when itís available. Way to shut down the game.
silver and LaLight are refusing to take a lynch that is available every bit as much as I am.

Theyíre voting for a player whoís actually had a case built against them, instead of with someone whoís had 25% of his posts read ďJust vote GalzriaĒ and hasnít put any effort or reasons behind why.

The case on you is based on you avoiding interaction. You have not been present except for the first 24 hours and the last 24 hours. It makes a perfect fefense for not being held accountable for any actions or non action throughout a day in the game where the more you talk the more you are noticed.

Rich, coming from someone with fewer posts, fewer reads, and fewer interactions than me.

I mean, thatís not even a case. Thatís LALL, which wouldnít even apply as I have more posts than everyone except Joth, Faust & Silver.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: DatSwan on December 20, 2018, 04:27:17 am
not in particular either way, I don't remember much about galz
So vote Galz. It's better than no lynch, which will likely happen otherwise.

Only because you refuse to take a lynch when itís available. Way to shut down the game.
silver and LaLight are refusing to take a lynch that is available every bit as much as I am.

Theyíre voting for a player whoís actually had a case built against them, instead of with someone whoís had 25% of his posts read ďJust vote GalzriaĒ and hasnít put any effort or reasons behind why.

My point, as i assume you are aware, was about the timing.

The case on you is based on you avoiding interaction. You have not been present except for the first 24 hours and the last 24 hours. It makes a perfect fefense for not being held accountable for any actions or non action throughout a day in the game where the more you talk the more you are noticed.

Rich, coming from someone with fewer posts, fewer reads, and fewer interactions than me.

Jesus - retry:
ďMy point, as i assume you are aware, was about the timing.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: silverspawn on December 20, 2018, 04:29:28 am
Half an hour, right?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: DatSwan on December 20, 2018, 04:29:46 am
not in particular either way, I don't remember much about galz
So vote Galz. It's better than no lynch, which will likely happen otherwise.

Only because you refuse to take a lynch when itís available. Way to shut down the game.
silver and LaLight are refusing to take a lynch that is available every bit as much as I am.

Theyíre voting for a player whoís actually had a case built against them, instead of with someone whoís had 25% of his posts read ďJust vote GalzriaĒ and hasnít put any effort or reasons behind why.

The case on you is based on you avoiding interaction. You have not been present except for the first 24 hours and the last 24 hours. It makes a perfect fefense for not being held accountable for any actions or non action throughout a day in the game where the more you talk the more you are noticed.

Rich, coming from someone with fewer posts, fewer reads, and fewer interactions than me.

I mean, thatís not even a case. Thatís LALL, which wouldnít even apply as I have more posts than everyone except Joth, Faust & Silver.

Of course it matters. Itís a brilliant strategy. Wait until all viable wagons are established and then come in at end of day to be able to say you have more content. The fact is most players i the game have given something to TR them for - not based on their quantity - but their consistency.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: DatSwan on December 20, 2018, 04:30:07 am
Half an hour, right?

Correvt
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Galzria on December 20, 2018, 04:30:19 am
not in particular either way, I don't remember much about galz
So vote Galz. It's better than no lynch, which will likely happen otherwise.

Only because you refuse to take a lynch when itís available. Way to shut down the game.
silver and LaLight are refusing to take a lynch that is available every bit as much as I am.

Theyíre voting for a player whoís actually had a case built against them, instead of with someone whoís had 25% of his posts read ďJust vote GalzriaĒ and hasnít put any effort or reasons behind why.

My point, as i assume you are aware, was about the timing.

The case on you is based on you avoiding interaction. You have not been present except for the first 24 hours and the last 24 hours. It makes a perfect fefense for not being held accountable for any actions or non action throughout a day in the game where the more you talk the more you are noticed.

Rich, coming from someone with fewer posts, fewer reads, and fewer interactions than me.

Jesus - retry:
ďMy point, as i assume you are aware, was about the timing.

And as the time I was absent - mostly over the weekend - is a time that I NEVER post in any game, have a permanent stated VLA about, and made one specifically in this game as requested by Space... again, I fail to understand your justification for this ďcaseĒ which simply doesnít exist.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: silverspawn on December 20, 2018, 04:32:22 am
So datswan if you swit h then jim is lynched?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: DatSwan on December 20, 2018, 04:34:37 am
So datswan if you swit h then jim is lynched?

Not happening
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: DatSwan on December 20, 2018, 04:35:45 am
So datswan if you swit h then jim is lynched?

Not happening

Meh that was an ego post. Still deciding.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: silverspawn on December 20, 2018, 04:38:17 am
If I switched woul it rneen be enough?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: DatSwan on December 20, 2018, 04:39:50 am
Dunno Iím checking. I think still short.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on December 20, 2018, 04:42:48 am
Vote Count 1.10

silverspawn (1): ashersky
Jimmmmm (6): silverspawn, Galzria, Robz888, Dylan32, jotheonah, LaLight
Galzria (5): faust, DatSwan, Jimmmmm, UmbrageOfSnow, mcmcsalot

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
D1 ends in ~17 minutes.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: DatSwan on December 20, 2018, 04:44:23 am
Jim you here?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: silverspawn on December 20, 2018, 04:45:23 am
It wouldn't. So unless someone else shows up, I think you gotta switch
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: DatSwan on December 20, 2018, 04:50:17 am
Jim!
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on December 20, 2018, 04:52:14 am
... I can't believe this is still happening.

Is there any situation where DatSwan is this stubborn unless he's scum that doesn't want to bus? That's the main thing keeping me from switching to get a lynch through. (Sorry Galz)
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: DatSwan on December 20, 2018, 04:53:54 am
... I can't believe this is still happening.

Is there any situation where DatSwan is this stubborn unless he's scum that doesn't want to bus? That's the main thing keeping me from switching to get a lynch through. (Sorry Galz)

What about you???

I have been pushing this ish all day!
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: silverspawn on December 20, 2018, 04:55:02 am
No idea
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Galzria on December 20, 2018, 04:55:19 am
... I can't believe this is still happening.

Is there any situation where DatSwan is this stubborn unless he's scum that doesn't want to bus? That's the main thing keeping me from switching to get a lynch through. (Sorry Galz)

Swan stated earlier that Jimmm was his second choice. Then bumped him to third. Now drags his feet when the lynch is at deadline.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: DatSwan on December 20, 2018, 04:56:03 am
I know who my partner is plus Jim wagon movements plus Galz wagon movements plus other shot makes me thing Galz skum jimmm not.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: silverspawn on December 20, 2018, 04:56:23 am
That is suspicious
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: DatSwan on December 20, 2018, 04:56:49 am
Logging off. gL
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on December 20, 2018, 04:56:54 am
I'm here but have been talked out of self hammering
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: silverspawn on December 20, 2018, 04:57:03 am
Ok vote: galz
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on December 20, 2018, 04:57:56 am
I mean, if DatSwan and Jimmmmm ARE scum partners (with someone who's already asleep and on the Galz wagon) and Swan claimed Mason with the intention of going with the scumbuddy claims Mason partner in a pinch gambit, and the gambit went horribly wrong, it would look something like this? But then why wouldn't Jimmmmm have done his part and claimed other Mason ages ago?

PPE: He is sooooooo scum but vote: Galzria. NL is bad. If we ARE in a Jimmmmm and DatSwan are scumbuddies situation, we'll be able to sort it out tomorrow.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Galzria on December 20, 2018, 04:58:23 am
Lynched the cop.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on December 20, 2018, 04:58:57 am
Late claim
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: silverspawn on December 20, 2018, 04:59:29 am
If thats true then you should have claimed
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Galzria on December 20, 2018, 04:59:46 am
Late claim

There was less than 60 between L1 and lynch.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Galzria on December 20, 2018, 04:59:59 am
Late claim

There was less than 60 between L1 and lynch.

Seconds
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Galzria on December 20, 2018, 05:00:55 am
If thats true then you should have claimed

Not at L2 with Jimmm at L1. But Swan and Faust were being ridiculously anti town stubborn
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on December 20, 2018, 05:01:36 am
Given a 50/50 just before DL that's not surprising.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on December 20, 2018, 05:01:55 am
I REALLY hope you're scum messing with us. Galz I think if it's ~5m before deadline you claim at L-2! ugh or we just got played hard by scum. ugh ugh ugh
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on December 20, 2018, 05:02:26 am
c'mon flipflipflipflipflip I want to go back to bed
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Galzria on December 20, 2018, 05:02:55 am
I REALLY hope you're scum messing with us. Galz I think if it's ~5m before deadline you claim at L-2! ugh or we just got played hard by scum. ugh ugh ugh

Not scum, not messing with you.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Galzria on December 20, 2018, 05:03:30 am
Iím only 1Shot though. Single C roll.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on December 20, 2018, 05:03:55 am
Vote Count 1.final

silverspawn (1): ashersky
Galzria (7): faust, DatSwan, Jimmmmm, UmbrageOfSnow, mcmcsalot, silverspawn, jotheonah
Jimmmmm (4): Galzria, Robz888, Dylan32, LaLight

With 12 alive, it tool 7 to lynch.


Galz was Policajt na jedno pouěitŪ, the one-shot cop.


"Strč prst skrz krk" means "stick a finger through the throat", and is a famous Czech sentence that has no vowels. Violent bunch, huh?

Sleep well and have a restful N1.


N1 begins now and ends at 7pm Czech time/1pm Forum Time on Friday 21st Dec. Night actions due by 6pm Czech time/noon Forum Time.

Thread Locked.


Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on December 21, 2018, 01:01:11 pm
Dobrť rŠno vöem!

That wasn't the most peaceful night for our little Vesnice...

Ashersky was killed in the night. He was a prostż vesničan, a simple villager (VT).

Czech fact:
in Czech, it's always the first syllable of a word that is stressed. For example, a typical Czech greeting is "Ahoj". It sounds like "Ah-hoy" instead of the typical English "uh-HOY". In my experience, learning to pronounce it correctly confuses Czech native speakers, who don't expect it from foreigners :-)



Vote Count 2.0

Not voting (10):
faust, LaLight, Robz888, mcmcsalot, DatSwan, Jimmmmm, UmbrageOfSnow, jotheonah, silverspawn, Dylan32

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

D2 ends on Saturday 29th December at 7pm Czech time (1pm forum time). (This includes one extra day for 25th December, for those celebrating Christmas).

Thread Unlocked.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: LaLight on December 21, 2018, 03:13:11 pm
I think I'd like to vote: faust
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: LaLight on December 21, 2018, 03:14:04 pm
I was going to be there for the Day end, but I accidentally fell asleep. Good news: I'm perfectly healthy as of now
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on December 21, 2018, 03:17:46 pm
No lynch would be horrible and I have to leave now until deadline. My problem with the case on jimm is heís playing like jimm plays. Ugh there is no non jimm or galz thing thatís happening. Im going to vote: galz so him and jimm are at l-2 and I trust people to get one through.

Rereading from bottom to top.

Disclaimer: I am biased, I can even feel it, but this post is wrong on so many levels.

vote: mcmcsalot
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: LaLight on December 21, 2018, 03:20:46 pm
something in faust's posts seem very, very off, I quoted 2 of them but couldn't put my finger onto a single reason why
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on December 21, 2018, 03:21:22 pm
Instead of antagonizing me, maybe you want to convince your supposed top townread of your innocence?

this
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on December 21, 2018, 03:21:36 pm
I'll self hammer instead of no lynch. 1 hour right?
Come on don't do this to me.

and this
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: LaLight on December 21, 2018, 03:22:06 pm
i think they feel too emotionally personal for the faust I'm used to?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: silverspawn on December 21, 2018, 03:24:20 pm
I agree that faust is feeling substantially different from normal. The problem is, he's feeling different from both his town and his scum self
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: LaLight on December 21, 2018, 03:25:20 pm
I agree that faust is feeling substantially different from normal. The problem is, he's feeling different from both his town and his scum self

Yes, exactly! That's why something in me really wants to vote for him, but something tells me it's not a scumtell
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: LaLight on December 21, 2018, 03:27:26 pm
also for god's sake why kill ashersky :(
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on December 21, 2018, 04:50:26 pm
also for god's sake why kill ashersky :(
I'm quite happy about that actually. Though confused.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on December 21, 2018, 04:51:47 pm
Vote: silverspawn
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: silverspawn on December 21, 2018, 05:33:52 pm
vote: faust

at least have the decency to be apologetic about having persuaded me to get a cop lynched
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: DatSwan on December 21, 2018, 06:22:41 pm
ashes kill isn't really that strange. skum knows mason claim is true and found out 1 shot cop was in the game. They also are gonna know which PRs they have... which could pretty much be:
TTTT = 1-Shot Strongman; Roleblocker
TTT = 1-Shot Strongman; Roleblocker
TT = Strongman; Roleblocker
T = Strongman; Roleblocker
0 Ts = Strongman; Roleblocker; 1-Shot Bulletproof****

As it states in the opening thread - neither me nor my partner know if we were UB converted or not. However, it is seemingly unimportant to this point as the only difference between 4-Ts (single M role) and 4 T's (double M role), would be the existence of the UB.

Whatever... what that boils down to for me is that they probably did not make the choice based off of PR stuff. So why kill ashes? - because ashes was off the wagons.

I think that they killed ashes primarily to prevent information to be gathered from VCA on the day. Not that that is worth too much really, but it is my thought on the matter.

Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: DatSwan on December 21, 2018, 06:23:36 pm
also, more reasons to follow, but starting off with a

Vote:mcmc
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: silverspawn on December 21, 2018, 06:31:33 pm
I'd add a whitespace
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: DatSwan on December 21, 2018, 07:32:45 pm
I'd add a whitespace

I canít win with the votes this game!

Vote: mcmc
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on December 21, 2018, 08:57:15 pm
Ash and and galz being dead means me, Dylan, LL are the only off wagon folks.

I feel like we should really scrutinize the Galz wagon, but I also feel like one of LL or Dylan is very likely to be scum by POE.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on December 21, 2018, 09:50:25 pm
Of course an incredibly skillful on-wagon scumteam could have killed ash to focus attention on the few remaining off wagoners.

I have to read. I do agree mcmc and Faust feel scummy. I hate the Galz lynch, but I was not around to help fight it so thatís on me.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dylan32 on December 21, 2018, 11:54:04 pm
ashes kill isn't really that strange. skum knows mason claim is true and found out 1 shot cop was in the game. They also are gonna know which PRs they have... which could pretty much be:
TTTT = 1-Shot Strongman; Roleblocker
TTT = 1-Shot Strongman; Roleblocker
TT = Strongman; Roleblocker
T = Strongman; Roleblocker
0 Ts = Strongman; Roleblocker; 1-Shot Bulletproof****

As it states in the opening thread - neither me nor my partner know if we were UB converted or not. However, it is seemingly unimportant to this point as the only difference between 4-Ts (single M role) and 4 T's (double M role), would be the existence of the UB.

Whatever... what that boils down to for me is that they probably did not make the choice based off of PR stuff. So why kill ashes? - because ashes was off the wagons.

I think that they killed ashes primarily to prevent information to be gathered from VCA on the day. Not that that is worth too much really, but it is my thought on the matter.

A double M roll would be an IC instead of masons. Masons + UB would be a triple M roll, which would have a much bigger impact on the rolls, since a triple M roll would leave us at MMMC**, rather than MC****.  So a UB being in the game seems to make the mason claim a bit weaker.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dylan32 on December 22, 2018, 12:04:57 am
Reading how the day went after I hit the wall and went to bed, even when you ignore the fact Galz was actually the cop, the Jimmmmm wagon feels townier just by nature of the way it stalled out and noone would hammer. If any scum were on Galz or off either wagon, it was close enough to the deadline to where hammering for the sake of making sure a lynch went through would have been pretty easy and probably at least a few town points, because scum would have been totally ok with a no lynch. If Jimmmmm is actually scum, faust and Swan would be super scummy for stubbornly refusing to switch, even when there was no guarantee someone else was going to be coming online to actually get a lynch through.  Swan had included Jimmmmm in his top 3 lynch choices behind Galz and along with Robz, but then the way he refuses to actually switch to Jimmmmm when the chips were down feels more like trying to protect a scum partner that you weren't planning on being the one that would co-claim masons with you later. Distance yourself to not be tied together by buddying while mason claiming the other partner, but then not wanting to actually hammer that partner.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: DatSwan on December 22, 2018, 12:18:46 am
ashes kill isn't really that strange. skum knows mason claim is true and found out 1 shot cop was in the game. They also are gonna know which PRs they have... which could pretty much be:
TTTT = 1-Shot Strongman; Roleblocker
TTT = 1-Shot Strongman; Roleblocker
TT = Strongman; Roleblocker
T = Strongman; Roleblocker
0 Ts = Strongman; Roleblocker; 1-Shot Bulletproof****

As it states in the opening thread - neither me nor my partner know if we were UB converted or not. However, it is seemingly unimportant to this point as the only difference between 4-Ts (single M role) and 4 T's (double M role), would be the existence of the UB.

Whatever... what that boils down to for me is that they probably did not make the choice based off of PR stuff. So why kill ashes? - because ashes was off the wagons.

I think that they killed ashes primarily to prevent information to be gathered from VCA on the day. Not that that is worth too much really, but it is my thought on the matter.

A double M roll would be an IC instead of masons. Masons + UB would be a triple M roll, which would have a much bigger impact on the rolls, since a triple M roll would leave us at MMMC**, rather than MC****.  So a UB being in the game seems to make the mason claim a bit weaker.


ah correct you are. most likely not a UB then.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: DatSwan on December 22, 2018, 12:30:38 am
Reading how the day went after I hit the wall and went to bed, even when you ignore the fact Galz was actually the cop, the Jimmmmm wagon feels townier just by nature of the way it stalled out and noone would hammer. If any scum were on Galz or off either wagon, it was close enough to the deadline to where hammering for the sake of making sure a lynch went through would have been pretty easy and probably at least a few town points, because scum would have been totally ok with a no lynch. If Jimmmmm is actually scum, faust and Swan would be super scummy for stubbornly refusing to switch, even when there was no guarantee someone else was going to be coming online to actually get a lynch through.  Swan had included Jimmmmm in his top 3 lynch choices behind Galz and along with Robz, but then the way he refuses to actually switch to Jimmmmm when the chips were down feels more like trying to protect a scum partner that you weren't planning on being the one that would co-claim masons with you later. Distance yourself to not be tied together by buddying while mason claiming the other partner, but then not wanting to actually hammer that partner.

this is a reverse logic post. it is far more likely that skum logged off for the night leaving the wagons as they were (as you said, being fine if it went no lynch) then me choosing not to switch onto Jimmm wagon if me and Jimm are both skum. Think about it for a second... like the one thing I would want to avoid as skum in this spot is having to go to the point where I have to claim a partner. The easiest way to avoid that would be to be a driving force for skum. If Jimm is skum and I am also skum, I would of absolutely smashed Jimmm for the cred... as would any skum in that spot.

your over simplification, as well as the accusation, is skummy. The over simplification for the above stated points. But the accusation is strange - far off shot, but if you were skum with Jimmm this would be a great defense for you to make in case Jimmm were to flip so you could try to set up a future mis lynch on me.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: DatSwan on December 22, 2018, 12:31:00 am
actually... it is super skummy

Vote: Dylan
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on December 22, 2018, 01:44:53 am
vote: faust

at least have the decency to be apologetic about having persuaded me to get a cop lynched
You could have the decency to own up to your role in the lynching. BUt no, you  choose to present yourself as the innocent victim even though you were the one who ultimately decided the Jimmmmm vs Galz situation.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: silverspawn on December 22, 2018, 05:41:58 am
vote: faust

at least have the decency to be apologetic about having persuaded me to get a cop lynched
You could have the decency to own up to your role in the lynching. BUt no, you  choose to present yourself as the innocent victim even though you were the one who ultimately decided the Jimmmmm vs Galz situation.

That is just a flat out lie. What's wrong with you? I had the choice between galz and a no-lynch, not between galz and Jimmm. You must know this if you read the EoD.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: silverspawn on December 22, 2018, 05:43:45 am
No reasonable player lets a no lynch happen day 1. I do not accept even a 1% responsibility for having lynched a PR.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: silverspawn on December 22, 2018, 05:46:45 am
But jim is good lynch
No he's not. His wagon is scummy and his play is townie.

Here's the deal: I am not going to hammer Jimmmmm. It's unclear whether anyone else that will do that will show up. However we do have the votes to lynch Galzria.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: silverspawn on December 22, 2018, 05:47:15 am
You can be wrong about galz, that's fine, but don't lie about it.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: silverspawn on December 22, 2018, 05:47:48 am
There's only been one thing in this game that strikes me as legitimately scummy, and that's this post

Looking at what seem to have been the major lynch candidates, I think mcmc and Dylan are scummyish and DatSwan is Towny.

I'm still in the 'early day one' mindest, and regardless of how early it is, I suspect town is more likely to feel like that then scum. Conversely, scum is more likely to have an awareness of who the 'majjor lynch candidates' are.

Put differently, I think town is less likely to think of anyone as a major candidate.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: silverspawn on December 22, 2018, 05:49:38 am
I'm just going to sit here for a while and hope for ashersky to turn up. And LaLight, I strongly suggest you switch to Galz.

Eh, no, thanks. Looks like you are waiting for even more claims to happen. Why so?
I'm not doing this. Galzria has posted at L-2 and decided not to claim. We can just lynch him.

Phone psting. Any1 here?
Vote Galzria.

I'm just going to sit here for a while and hope for ashersky to turn up. And LaLight, I strongly suggest you switch to Galz.

Eh, no, thanks. Looks like you are waiting for even more claims to happen. Why so?
I'm not doing this. Galzria has posted at L-2 and decided not to claim. We can just lynch him.

Why would I do that? That serves no positive utility.

Jimmm has posted at L-1 and decided not to claim. You can just lynch him.
Yeah but Jimmmmm is town. Also virtually claimed.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on December 22, 2018, 11:57:47 am
Iím going to be even more LA than I thought, because my phone does not get data and the wife is understandably not crazy about a lot of mafia during the honeymoon.

I like Dylanís DatSwan case, mostly because I also found him crazy scummy end of day and I think itís a mistake to give the mason claim a ton of towncred weight. Like if Jimmm and Datswan has actually claimed mason together, that would be one thingó I donít think day one scum is that bold. But I think they could totally be scum who had a really bad day. After all, if anyone BUT Jimmmm has been the next L-1 that would have gone better for him.

The fact is, Jimmmmm said heíd self hammer and then didnít. Swan said heíd hammer Jimmmm and then didnít. Day 1 ended at 2 minutes before deadline.

Also even though the timing was nutso, I do want to apologize for hammering without allowing a claim. I was up at 4:30 am, silverís post came in as a PPE, and I wasnít thinking 100 percent clearly. I still think, given the circumstances it was the right move and I still would have greatly preferred a Jimmm lynch.

Totally fine lynching faust, Swan, or Jim. For now, vote: Swan
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on December 22, 2018, 12:31:25 pm
@Joth: I think your hammer was fine, I'd do the same.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on December 22, 2018, 12:36:50 pm
@faust

Okay, I've thought about this, and I think this is less harmful than helpful and better than a mass claim, and prevents us from getting too late into the day with this unsaid before throwing everything into chaos at the end. I think you should answer, especially with your survival-to-end-of-game track record anyway. Only thing I'm giving up by saying this isn't worth holding onto at this point I think:

Faust, Yes or No, are you a Mason?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: DatSwan on December 22, 2018, 02:18:26 pm
Iím going to be even more LA than I thought, because my phone does not get data and the wife is understandably not crazy about a lot of mafia during the honeymoon.

I like Dylanís DatSwan case, mostly because I also found him crazy scummy end of day and I think itís a mistake to give the mason claim a ton of towncred weight. Like if Jimmm and Datswan has actually claimed mason together, that would be one thingó I donít think day one scum is that bold. But I think they could totally be scum who had a really bad day. After all, if anyone BUT Jimmmm has been the next L-1 that would have gone better for him.

The fact is, Jimmmmm said heíd self hammer and then didnít. Swan said heíd hammer Jimmmm and then didnít. Day 1 ended at 2 minutes before deadline.

Also even though the timing was nutso, I do want to apologize for hammering without allowing a claim. I was up at 4:30 am, silverís post came in as a PPE, and I wasnít thinking 100 percent clearly. I still think, given the circumstances it was the right move and I still would have greatly preferred a Jimmm lynch.

Totally fine lynching faust, Swan, or Jim. For now, vote: Swan

correction - Swan explicitly stated he would not hammer Jimm and then logged off.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: DatSwan on December 22, 2018, 02:22:35 pm
Also, all the talk of the hammer(s) being potentially skummy is nonsense. Galz was sitting there at L2 aware if the potential lynch. They chose not to claim... which actually is probably the right play given that they were a cop in that spot... but as they did not claim... I do not see how Joth/SS get skum points "because Galz was a PR".
If anything... maybe because "Galz was Town"... but like... whether the hammer(s) are Town or Skum... they have had no way of knowing Galz was a Cop.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: silverspawn on December 22, 2018, 02:47:41 pm
Yeah, the claiming stuff isn't a valid point, either.

Despite how bad the galz lynch was, I actually don't think the EoD makes Jimmy particularly more scummy than he was at the previous day, though. Right now I think I'd most like to lynch faust

Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: DatSwan on December 22, 2018, 11:00:26 pm
OK, so I am switching again. A few things have become apparent to me from reading back:
1) DerSwan needs to be added to my alias list
2) DarSwan needs to be added to my alias list
3) Snow is skummy.

After sitting on Dylan all day, they switch to me - the only player that Dylan has attempted to make a case against the entire day 1.
The total and complete lack of interest in Dylan has me itching to lynch Dylan more and more.
That said, I'd prefer DerSwan to Jimmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, so
Vote: DatSwan
L-2

Then my Mason claim.

Then this Vote Count:
Vote Count 1.8

DatSwan (4): Dylan32, jotheonah, UmbrageOfSnow, mcmcsalot
silverspawn (1): ashersky
mcmcsalot (1): LaLight
Jimmmmm (3): silverspawn, Galzria, Robz888
Galzria (3): faust, DatSwan, Jimmmmm

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
D1 ends at 11am Czech time (5am Forum Time) on Thursday 20th December. That's in ~9.5 hours.



Then Dylan and Joth both switch from me to Jimmm, and Snow switches from me to Galz. Leaving it at:
Jimmmmm (5): silverspawn, Galzria, Robz888, Dylan, Joth
Galzria (4): faust, DatSwan, Jimmmmm, Snow


So essentially:
1) Spends the day on Dylan
2) Votes for Dylan's one and only skum read (me) when the Dylan wagon died a long time off
3) I claim
3) Follows me onto Galz instead of going for Jimmm, making wagons 5-4.

That doesn't make sense.
Snow who do you think is skummy - Me? Dylan? No one?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: DatSwan on December 22, 2018, 11:09:53 pm


Vote: UmbrageOfSnow
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on December 23, 2018, 03:22:25 am
No reasonable player lets a no lynch happen day 1. I do not accept even a 1% responsibility for having lynched a PR.
Exactly. So you know I would not have and you know that I was bluffing. Still you went along with it.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on December 23, 2018, 03:24:05 am
Faust, Yes or No, are you a Mason?
Yes
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: silverspawn on December 23, 2018, 05:20:59 am
Faust, Yes or No, are you a Mason?
Yes

ugh unvote
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: silverspawn on December 23, 2018, 05:21:43 am
No reasonable player lets a no lynch happen day 1. I do not accept even a 1% responsibility for having lynched a PR.
Exactly. So you know I would not have and you know that I was bluffing. Still you went along with it.
no... because you presumably went to sleep.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on December 23, 2018, 06:56:02 am
Vote Count 2.1

mcmcsalot (1): LaLight
silverspawn (1): faust
DatSwan (1): jotheonah
UmbrageOfSnow (1): DatSwan
Not Voting (6): Robz888, mcmcsalot, Jimmmmm, UmbrageOfSnow, Dylan32, silverspawn

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
D2 ends on Saturday 29th December at 7pm Czech time (1pm forum time).
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on December 23, 2018, 08:02:10 am
No reasonable player lets a no lynch happen day 1. I do not accept even a 1% responsibility for having lynched a PR.
Exactly. So you know I would not have and you know that I was bluffing. Still you went along with it.
no... because you presumably went to sleep.
I'm not generally in a habit of going to sleep at 10 am. Also my Mason partner assured me he would be around to see it through.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: silverspawn on December 23, 2018, 09:06:26 am
Ah right, it was in the morning.

Fine, mb I could have questioned whether you were bluffing, but in fact I just took it as fact.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on December 23, 2018, 09:34:42 am
Sorry all. Should have time to post more soon.

Would lynch: Dylan, joth.
Would not lynch: Swan, faust, ss.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on December 23, 2018, 09:47:02 am
Faust, Yes or No, are you a Mason?
Yes

Whoa. Setup question: do masons have daychat? Does scum? Iím on
Mobile or I would check the starting post myself.

Also I thought Jimmmm softclaimed mason at the end of the day. Did I read that wrong or are we talking about a three-mason team?

PPE: Nice OMGUS Jim.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on December 23, 2018, 09:47:56 am
PPE: Nice OMGUS Jim.

That's a bit silly.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on December 23, 2018, 10:02:38 am
Setup question: do masons have daychat? Does scum?

If masons exist, they can use their QT(s) in both day and night phases.
Scum can talk at night but do not have daychat.


Quote
Also I thought Jimmmm softclaimed mason at the end of the day. Did I read that wrong or are we talking about a three-mason team?

PPE: Nice OMGUS Jim.
OMGUS loses all meaning if you use it every time someone suspects one of their detractors.

I thought Jim pretty clearly softed VT.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on December 23, 2018, 10:04:19 am
Ah right, it was in the morning.

Fine, mb I could have questioned whether you were bluffing, but in fact I just took it as fact.

When I read how the end of day went down, I took faust's threat as serious (and a bit potentially game-throwing) too, despite thinking of faust as a normally reasonable person unlikely to do such things even as scum.

It was pretty well-acted I think.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on December 23, 2018, 10:15:36 am
@Swan: Look at what you wrote and think about what motive someone could possibly have to vote the way I did.

I feel like the "I'm not voting for X because my scumread is voting for them" type reads are bad 70% of the time anyway, and here that is metastasizing into something quite silly.

I'm not trying to be condescending (I think my first draft of this post was super condescending and I'm trying not to be) but I'm leaving this as an exercise to the reader, you earlier asked me what my town reads were in I think a similar spirit, and that's how I mean this, it feels like you're reading at the most surface level and not thinking about motives.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on December 23, 2018, 01:04:14 pm
Unvote

I need to re-examine day 1 in light of new information and shedding of old assumptions.

@Swan: why were you so opposed to the Jimmmm lynch that you would have let yesterday go to a noblynch rather than switch? Thatís really the most important question I have.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: DatSwan on December 23, 2018, 05:01:24 pm
Unvote

I need to re-examine day 1 in light of new information and shedding of old assumptions.

@Swan: why were you so opposed to the Jimmmm lynch that you would have let yesterday go to a noblynch rather than switch? Thatís really the most important question I have.

I literally was PPEing Jim when the double switch happened. I said i was logging off to force the 2x switch bc at the time i really thought Galz was best. I was not off. Idk how you check but i believe there is a way - so you can check me on that if you know how.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on December 23, 2018, 07:19:26 pm
I thought Jimm was the other Mason. Datswan was communicating that, as far as I can recall.

Iím tempted to say this Mason scheme is a lie! Though thatís probably too crazy.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: DatSwan on December 23, 2018, 07:43:59 pm
Faust is the other mason - would like specifics on why robs thinks it was telegraphed as jimm.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on December 23, 2018, 07:46:07 pm
Faust is the other mason - would like specifics on why robs thinks it was telegraphed as jimm.

Yeah I have no idea.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: LaLight on December 24, 2018, 12:04:34 am
I just had a dream, that faust was Mason AND IC, but we lynched him and he was scum
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dylan32 on December 24, 2018, 01:47:43 am
I mean, I also thought Swan was lowkey communicating Jimmmmm as mason partner based on how staunch Swan's refusal to switch was, especially after his 'Jimmmmm would be my 2nd, no 3rd choice,' and then suddenly no it's Galz or bust. And that's why I was reading it as scummy. But yeah, rereading and Jim does sort of softclaim VT with his whole "not the worst lynch" schtick. Faust refusing to switch would also make sense in the context of Jimmmmm being the other scum partner, but idk. If anyone would, faust would probably be willing to bus there for the cred.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on December 24, 2018, 04:58:26 am
I thought Jimm was the other Mason. Datswan was communicating that, as far as I can recall.

Iím tempted to say this Mason scheme is a lie! Though thatís probably too crazy.

Iím glad it wasnít just me! And Iím not sure itís too crazy. Also Iím not sure we can afford to just accept it on faith. The problem is, if itís faust and not Jimmmm then weíre now asserting that the entire scum team has tied itself together, since part of the case on Swan was his refusal to lynch Jimmmm. I can buy two scum tying themselves together in a gambit, but three is really ballsy.

Note that if Swan and Faust really are masons, then we have no particular reason to believe Jimmm is town.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on December 24, 2018, 05:00:11 am
I mean, I also thought Swan was lowkey communicating Jimmmmm as mason partner based on how staunch Swan's refusal to switch was, especially after his 'Jimmmmm would be my 2nd, no 3rd choice,' and then suddenly no it's Galz or bust. And that's why I was reading it as scummy. But yeah, rereading and Jim does sort of softclaim VT with his whole "not the worst lynch" schtick. Faust refusing to switch would also make sense in the context of Jimmmmm being the other scum partner, but idk. If anyone would, faust would probably be willing to bus there for the cred.

I guess I thought ďnot the worst lynchĒ was referring to the fact that his flip would IC Swan, and if Swan got NKíd it would soak up a kill that could have hit a more powerful role.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on December 24, 2018, 06:03:48 am
I would suggest that if people have that kind of time, they should reread D1 in the light of new information. I would like some more substantial reads.

Also do people think about the way my claim was adressed?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: LaLight on December 24, 2018, 08:13:35 am
I would suggest that if people have that kind of time, they should reread D1 in the light of new information. I would like some more substantial reads.

Also do people think about the way my claim was adressed?

I really didn't like it actually, why would UoS ask this that way? Also why would you answer directly, but this is another question
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: LaLight on December 24, 2018, 08:14:13 am
I would suggest that if people have that kind of time, they should reread D1 in the light of new information. I would like some more substantial reads.

Also do people think about the way my claim was adressed?

rereading for some time now. We just switched offices on my work and I just got internet and it's literally the first thing i am doing
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on December 24, 2018, 08:16:11 am
Also, Hi LaLight, Faust, everyone else! Good to be back. I'm trying to only commit to one game at a time and only occasionally, but I intend to join more in the next year too.

Am I seeing too much here as he addressed two (for me) conf!towns?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: LaLight on December 24, 2018, 08:16:52 am
meh, read Galzria's opening post as scummy, then remembered
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: LaLight on December 24, 2018, 08:18:24 am
I think I am settled on 99% believing DS and faust are Masons.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on December 24, 2018, 08:19:33 am
Also, Vote: Robz for hating D1 and never participating. D1 is as useful, and often moreso than almost any other day as it establishes the baseline for the rest of the game to follow.
And the baseline you seek to establish is policy voting?

He's given me no reason to believe he's not scum. That can be said of others, too, mind you - but as Robz won't play D1 unless given a reason, yes, I'm perfectly content with that vote right now.

Fair, but I am intending to play this day 1 anyway. Iím going to surprise you!

Did this happen in the end?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: LaLight on December 24, 2018, 08:20:27 am
for some reasons I can't put my finger on Joth. He reads townie, but I don't know, can't feel him
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on December 24, 2018, 08:21:34 am
Iím caught up, joth and silver looks strongly like town v town.


vote: datswan
Their ďwoah lots going onĒ feels like scum surprised by the amount of discussion vs town. Town is likely to be excited and specific versus scum who would be general and dismissive.

This as well seems a little forced

But do you disagree with my thought?

I do, actually. There was a lot of posts, when he came, No matter what alignment a person is, they could say woah it's a lot of posts for numerous reasons. Why would scum be surprised about the amount of townies discussion? There's more town people than there's scums. Even given that town would be more specific which is also not really true, or it would be really easy to catch scums.

All in all looks like you tried to develop a read out of nowhere

I am pointing here, again.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on December 24, 2018, 08:25:15 am
Meanwhile, I've found that cases based on defensiveness -- especially off-meta defensiveness -- are often good day one cases.
I strongly disagree. Being defensive and challenging votes helps keep the game active and is good pro-town play. I have seen scum trying to ignore votes on them way more often because they don't want to draw additional attention to themselves. Plus I support DatSwan in that this isn't off-meta for him.

Right, unless they decided on N0 to fakeclaim masons (which would be a weird thing to do), I believe the claim. This is so awesome. Can we lynch mcmc now plzthnks
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: LaLight on December 24, 2018, 08:26:33 am
ashersky kill is still a weird thing, I can't see him even softclaiming anything. I remember the game in asher9++ when he softclaimed UB, while being VT to draw the kill (successfully). Nothing like this this time
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on December 24, 2018, 08:29:11 am
Looking at what seem to have been the major lynch candidates, I think mcmc and Dylan are scummyish and DatSwan is Towny.

Is it possible it is a partner call? Jimmmmm/mcmc//Jimmmmm/Dylan?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: LaLight on December 24, 2018, 08:29:35 am
Given that Jimmmmm never lynched both as soon as I can see
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: LaLight on December 24, 2018, 08:30:22 am
actually a lot of people voted for mcmc but he was never a wagon
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on December 24, 2018, 08:50:59 am
Given that Jimmmmm never lynched both as soon as I can see

I'm not entirely sure what you mean, but I would have and still would lynch Dylan.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: LaLight on December 24, 2018, 08:55:09 am
ok apparently I also need to work on my job, what a shock. Later.

PPE: Have you voted him? I might've missed that. You were voting ash at the time
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: Jimmmmm on December 24, 2018, 09:01:57 am
Vote: Dylan

Vote: Dylan
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on December 24, 2018, 03:32:34 pm
Vote: Dylan

And this last bunch of posts from LaLight seems pretty town to me, a lot of weird assumed guilt looking for reasons and bizarre logical leaps, I'm too busy to check but that's basically what he does as town when reevaluating things isn't it?

Very little time today and tomorrow, should be able to post at some point tomorrow though so not VLA.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: DatSwan on December 24, 2018, 11:30:21 pm
Happy Christmas/Hollidays everyone!
I promise to get back to everything tomorrow evening after all my festivities.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on December 25, 2018, 05:45:11 am
Why Dylan?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on December 25, 2018, 07:33:36 am
Veselť VŠnoce (Merry Christmas!)

Vote Count 2.2


mcmcsalot (1): LaLight
silverspawn (1): faust
UmbrageOfSnow (1): DatSwan
Dylan32 (2): Jimmmmm, UmbrageOfSnow
Not Voting (5): Robz888, mcmcsalot, Dylan32, silverspawn, jotheonah

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
D2 ends on Saturday 29th December at 7pm Czech time (1pm forum time).
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: LaLight on December 25, 2018, 07:39:23 am
I am null on Dylan, and I don't like the two votes on him. Let's sheep faust, vote: silverspawn
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: silverspawn on December 25, 2018, 08:36:56 am
I am null on Dylan, and I don't like the two votes on him. Let's sheep faust, vote: silverspawn

Why would you do something so stupid?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on December 25, 2018, 08:43:50 am
I am null on Dylan, and I don't like the two votes on him. Let's sheep faust, vote: silverspawn

Why would you do something so stupid?
Come now, that's not the holiday spirit!
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 25, 2018, 08:49:34 am
Merry Christmas everyone, holiday festivities most of the day, then I will be caught up and participating.

Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: LaLight on December 25, 2018, 08:56:32 am
I am null on Dylan, and I don't like the two votes on him. Let's sheep faust, vote: silverspawn

Why would you do something so stupid?
Come now, that's not the holiday spirit!

I don't have any holidays in my country, that's fine
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: LaLight on December 25, 2018, 08:59:42 am
I am null on Dylan, and I don't like the two votes on him. Let's sheep faust, vote: silverspawn

Why would you do something so stupid?

So what do you think about mcmc?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on December 25, 2018, 11:56:13 am
Sorry, holidays have put me behind too
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dylan32 on December 25, 2018, 12:21:22 pm
Merry Christmas and other festivities for those who celebrate them! I'll have time tomorrow to catch up before my work conference that starts the 27th.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on December 25, 2018, 05:22:30 pm
Why Dylan?

Because that's where my vote has been in spirit since the end of Day 1 and I looked back and the end of the day doesn't change my wanting to lynch Dylan so I thought I'd put my vote down.

Happy Hogswatch everyone!
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: silverspawn on December 25, 2018, 06:30:05 pm
Why Dylan?

Because that's where my vote has been in spirit since the end of Day 1 and I looked back and the end of the day doesn't change my wanting to lynch Dylan so I thought I'd put my vote down.

Happy Hogswatch everyone!

a merry hogwarts from umbridge!
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on December 25, 2018, 10:56:01 pm
10 points from silverspawn and detention with me on Wednesday.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: silverspawn on December 26, 2018, 10:51:12 am
It'll be fine. I'll only have to write sentences.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on December 26, 2018, 01:19:12 pm
Quote from: silverspawn
I must not make Harry Potter references.
I must not make Harry Potter references.
I must not make Harry Potter references.
I must not make Harry Potter references.
I must not make Harry Potter references.
I must not make Harry Potter references.
I must not make Harry Potter references.
I must not make Harry Potter references.
I must not make Harry Potter references.
I must not make Harry Potter references.
I must not make Harry Potter references.
I must not make Harry Potter references.
I must not make Harry Potter references.
I must not make Harry Potter references.
I must not make Harry Potter references.
I must not make Harry Potter references.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: LaLight on December 26, 2018, 02:19:44 pm
Quote from: silverspawn
I must not make Harry Potter references.
I must not make Harry Potter references.
I must not make Harry Potter references.
I must not make Harry Potter references.
I must not make Harry Potter references.
I must not make Harry Potter references.
I must not make Harry Potter references.
I must not make Harry Potter references.
I must not make Harry Potter references.
I must not make Harry Potter references.
I must not make Harry Potter references.
I must not make Harry Potter references.
I must not make Harry Potter references.
I must not make Harry Potter references.
I must not make Harry Potter references.
I must not make Harry Potter references.

Bonus points if you wrote them, not just copypasted.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: silverspawn on December 26, 2018, 02:51:02 pm
I totally wrote them.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on December 26, 2018, 03:08:10 pm
Why Dylan?

Because that's where my vote has been in spirit since the end of Day 1 and I looked back and the end of the day doesn't change my wanting to lynch Dylan so I thought I'd put my vote down.

Happy Hogswatch everyone!
Okay but do you really think this answer provided what I was looking for when asking that question?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on December 26, 2018, 04:00:57 pm
I thought I provided that days ago.

There's really only 4 people I'd be willing to lynch right now, Dylan's my top choice for reasons I've stated before that remain unchanged by the Ash kill or the day-end wagons, and is the most interesting in terms of possibly applied pressure by adding another vote.

Joth is on vacation and won't provide interesting interactions if he gets a wagon anyway, I'm townreading Jimmm despite kind of wanting to lynch him, and I'm going to keep interacting with the other person without naming them right now because I'm looking forward to Swan telling me I'm using that as cover for whomever I eventually vote for and maybe also because I want more time to get a read on them.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on December 26, 2018, 04:02:43 pm
It's kind of weird that faust is basically the only one who said anything about my asking faust if he was a mason.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on December 26, 2018, 06:02:00 pm
It's kind of weird that faust is basically the only one who said anything about my asking faust if he was a mason.

I don't think that's true. Robz and I have both commented on the fact that we thought Jimmmmm was the other Mason and the revelation that it's faust is throwing us a bit.

I don't fault you for asking the question, if that's what you're getting at. I am a little curious how you knew.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dylan32 on December 26, 2018, 07:38:15 pm
It's kind of weird that faust is basically the only one who said anything about my asking faust if he was a mason.

I don't think that's true. Robz and I have both commented on the fact that we thought Jimmmmm was the other Mason and the revelation that it's faust is throwing us a bit.

I don't fault you for asking the question, if that's what you're getting at. I am a little curious how you knew.

As did I (commented on it, that is).
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 26, 2018, 08:17:01 pm
It's kind of weird that faust is basically the only one who said anything about my asking faust if he was a mason.

I'm curious about the fact that you asked it but as faust answered quickly and directly I know longer want to know the answer to any questions relating toward your motivations for asking.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on December 27, 2018, 03:51:19 am
There's really only 4 people I'd be willing to lynch right now, Dylan's my top choice for reasons I've stated before that remain unchanged by the Ash kill or the day-end wagons, and is the most interesting in terms of possibly applied pressure by adding another vote.
It's just somewhat irritating that you would write a paragraph of how reasons you stated previously still apply, compelling us to go search for them, rather than just to restate them. Neither does it help convince me to vote for Dylan because I don't want to trace back your posts right now.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on December 27, 2018, 09:53:14 am
I don't have much time tonight but I reread Dylan and my reasons for voting for him are really only from very early in the game. I will Unvote for now and hopefully have time to look at joth tomorrow.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on December 27, 2018, 11:03:24 am
My recollection is that DatSwan had Jimm in second or third on a "I would lynch this person" list, but then when push came to shove absolutely refused to vote for him, even if that possibly meant No Lynch. This screamed "Jimmm is actually my partner". Note also I had made a remark to DatSwan about not expressing reads for fear of giving away the partner, and I had some throwaway line about using it to pull a fake (appearing to scumread the partner on purpose), which then seemed liked that's what DS was doing with Jimmm.

So actually it appears the misunderstanding is more due to DS's actions than Jimmm's, which makes for a possible DS/faust scum team that doesn't even include Jimmm.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on December 27, 2018, 01:30:06 pm
My recollection is that DatSwan had Jimm in second or third on a "I would lynch this person" list, but then when push came to shove absolutely refused to vote for him, even if that possibly meant No Lynch. This screamed "Jimmm is actually my partner". Note also I had made a remark to DatSwan about not expressing reads for fear of giving away the partner, and I had some throwaway line about using it to pull a fake (appearing to scumread the partner on purpose), which then seemed liked that's what DS was doing with Jimmm.

So actually it appears the misunderstanding is more due to DS's actions than Jimmm's, which makes for a possible DS/faust scum team that doesn't even include Jimmm.

But then why doesnít scum!Swan just vote for Jimmmmm? Does scum want a no lynch that much.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on December 27, 2018, 01:48:54 pm
Yeah I don't know. I guess I Galaxy Brained myself there.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on December 27, 2018, 06:04:13 pm
I don't have much time tonight but I reread Dylan and my reasons for voting for him are really only from very early in the game. I will Unvote for now and hopefully have time to look at joth tomorrow.

So why did you revote him at the start of today then?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: silverspawn on December 28, 2018, 03:06:16 am
I'll get to this either today or tomorrow...
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on December 28, 2018, 12:14:21 pm
Vote Count 2.3

silverspawn (2): faust, LaLight
UmbrageOfSnow (1): DatSwan
Dylan32 (1): UmbrageOfSnow
Not Voting (6): Robz888, mcmcsalot, Dylan32, silverspawn, jotheonah, Jimmmmm

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
D2 ends on Saturday 29th December at 7pm Czech time (1pm forum time).

The deadline is less than 25 hours from now.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on December 28, 2018, 02:18:32 pm
Oh boy. Uh, I will be driving from Detroit to Washington DC tomorrow and will have no time for this game. I would definitely favor an extension if that were possible--though if it's not, I understand.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on December 28, 2018, 02:36:58 pm
I would also favor an extension.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: DatSwan on December 28, 2018, 02:37:59 pm
I need to read back through holiday posts but i will be around until DL. But also ok with extension.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on December 28, 2018, 03:23:44 pm
I'm also okay with an extension although that means I'll probably be less available around the actual deadline (assuming 24 hour extension).
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: silverspawn on December 28, 2018, 03:49:57 pm
Extension ftw.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on December 28, 2018, 05:09:50 pm
Okay, could you please check in with me in your personal QT (not any shared QT) to give me an indication of whether you support/object to an extension up till 23:59 Czech time (6pm Forum Time) on Sunday 30th December? Thanks!
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on December 28, 2018, 11:57:35 pm
Alright Iím about to Bird my flight home, so itís entirely possible I wonít have another chance to log in before deadline. I donít like silver or Dylan lynches, so Iíll put my vote on vote: Umbrage in case we donít have an extension and having my vote there helps us avoid NL.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on December 29, 2018, 08:15:08 am
vote: Umbrage for identical reasons
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: silverspawn on December 29, 2018, 08:22:36 am
bad votes. umbrage is super towny.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on December 29, 2018, 08:26:55 am
Vote: Robz
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: silverspawn on December 29, 2018, 09:23:31 am
Alright Iím about to Bird my flight home, so itís entirely possible I wonít have another chance to log in before deadline. I donít like silver or Dylan lynches, so Iíll put my vote on vote: Umbrage in case we donít have an extension and having my vote there helps us avoid NL.

Is this a thing or a phone error? Either way it's funny.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: silverspawn on December 29, 2018, 09:41:02 am
I'm actually a little sick today and it affects my concentration, so I'll break this reread into small parts.

So far, joth is scum, dylan is town.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on December 29, 2018, 09:52:07 am
The deadline extension has been approved. New deadline is tomorrow night (Sunday 30th December 2018), 23.59 Czech time/17.59 forum time.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on December 29, 2018, 09:52:37 am
Vote Count 2.4

UmbrageOfSnow (3): DatSwan, jotheonah, Robz888
Dylan32 (1): UmbrageOfSnow
silverspawn (1): LaLight
Robz888 (1): faust
Not Voting (4): mcmcsalot, Dylan32, silverspawn, Jimmmmm

D2 ends at 23:59 Czech time (5.59pm Forum Time) on Sunday 30th December. This is in just over 32 hours' time.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on December 29, 2018, 11:08:17 am
Request prods on LaLight, Dylan, mcmc, Jimmmmm
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: silverspawn on December 29, 2018, 11:36:54 am
@mcmcsalot, faust, Joth: were you guys (pretty sure you are all guys, apologies if wrong) misunderstanding my reasoning?

'you guys' is totally universal, I believe.

Not feeling my Jimm case anymore.

town on LaLight and DatSwan
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: silverspawn on December 29, 2018, 11:39:02 am
What do you think of silver?
I'd rather not say.

How about now?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on December 29, 2018, 02:51:10 pm
I'm actually a little sick today and it affects my concentration, so I'll break this reread into small parts.

So far, joth is scum, dylan is town.

I agree with you on half of that. I am home now, so Iím going to try and do some real re-reading. I appreciate everyoneís patience with my V/LA. And yes ďBird my flightĒ was a mobile posting error.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on December 29, 2018, 03:09:14 pm
Votecount at the time:
silverspawn (2): faust, LaLight
UmbrageOfSnow (1): DatSwan
Dylan32 (1): UmbrageOfSnow
Not Voting (6): Robz888, mcmcsalot, Dylan32, silverspawn, jotheonah, Jimmmmm

itís entirely possible I wonít have another chance to log in before deadline. I donít like silver or Dylan lynches, so Iíll put my vote on vote: Umbrage in case we donít have an extension and having my vote there helps us avoid NL.
vote: Umbrage for identical reasons

Previously...
Vote: SS

I would like to point out the large shift in ssís posting language/format/content/attitude since the wagon in him grew to a size worth caring about. Indicative of self-preservation and possibly defensiveness.
Ashís point about Silver is solid.

I think I'm still happy with my vote on Dylan. I am realizing Umbrage is quite an under scrutinized player today.

Ash and and galz being dead means me, Dylan, LL are the only off wagon folks.

I feel like we should really scrutinize the Galz wagon, but I also feel like one of LL or Dylan is very likely to be scum by POE.

Vote: Robz

Wouldn't want to actually scumread me or support Swan's weird case but let's just park this vote there since he doesn't like the other two options that he has also been fine with lynching the whole game.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on December 29, 2018, 03:35:11 pm
I was just noticing in my reread that this is at least the second time Robz has immediately followed up a vote of mine with a vote for the same person and no additional analysis.

We have about 42 hours until deadline and it doesn't feel like we're close to a lynch. I'd like to get a prod request on Galzria.

The leading wagon is mcmcsalot and the case on him is completely nonexistent as near as I can tell. Like literally I read through the thread and none of the votes on him come with any hint of an explanation.

The next three wagon candidates are Dylan, DatSwan, and silver. Dylan and DatSwan seem to have stalled out.

So I guess I'm going with vote: silverspawn.

I'm ok with it. He's been sheeping unashamedly, he's on the weird mcmc wagon, he's voting for jokey reasons well after RVS is over. I think silverspawn is a fine day 1 lynch with a better than 50 percent chance of being scum.

Vote: SS
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on December 29, 2018, 03:52:25 pm
And another one:

Vote: Jimmmm

Vote Count 1.6

mcmcsalot (1): Lalight
DatSwan (1): Dylan32
Dylan32 (2): UmbrageOfSnow, Jimmmmm
silverspawn (3): ashersky, mcmcsalot, Robz888
Jimmmmm (4): silverspawn, DatSwan, Galzria, jotheonah
Galzria (1): faust

Not Voting (0):

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
D1 ends at 11am Czech time (5am Forum Time) on Thursday 20th December. That's in ~17 hours.


My vote should be on DatSwan.

Well then, Vote: Datswan



vote: josh for asking this question too early. Smells like scared scum.

Vote: silverspawn since I donít believe this is scummy and Joth is far more easily explained as energetic returning player than scared scum.

If Silver isn't happening... Dylan, Jimmm, DatSwan, UoS are all fine by me. The only lynches I would quite actively oppose right now are Joth and mcmc, I guess.

Now that I re-read it seems like Robz has sort of been going out of his way to buddy and sheep me all game. Which is probably why I've had such a town read on him. I just totally fell for it.

I was only a mediocre player, recordwise, before I left, and now I'm hella rusty, so I feel like town!Robz sheeping me left and right like this doesn't make a lot of sense. But maybe scum!robz figured since he was the one who brought me into the game it would be easy to buddy me and have a permanent town ally. There's evidence of him doing the same thing in subtler ways with Mcmc ("we IC'd each other"), faust ("day 1 pass"), and Galzria.

My memory is that part of Robz's meta is mixing up his scum strategies so that he doesn't have an easily readable meta. And I can see him saying "this game, I'm going to try buddying".

I sort of love this theory, but I also think maybe I'm working too hard to make up a narrative. But what the heck, let's try vote: Robz
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: LaLight on December 29, 2018, 04:29:21 pm
Yeah, sounds good. vote: Robz
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: silverspawn on December 29, 2018, 04:57:25 pm
Unofficial Vote Count:

Robz888 (4): faust, UmbrageOfSnow, jotheonah, LaLight
UmbrageOfSnow (2): DatSwan, Robz888

Not Voting (4): mcmcsalot, Dylan32, silverspawn, Jimmmmm
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: silverspawn on December 29, 2018, 05:12:51 pm
vote: jimmmm

I would not like to lynch Galzria.

I donít believe Swan 100% but agree it would be a bizarre claim for scum to make.

There is one other option, which is to have the other Mason claim. Mason isnít like a hugely powerful power. If we force a partner claim, we either double up on scum if Swan is lying or we get some ICs. Sure scum can NK one, but thatís a shot theyíre not spending on a potential cop or doc.

Am I wrong? Say we lynch someone else and scum NKs Swan. Now his partner isnít even an IC, theyíre basically a VT. Double claim seems more valuable then.

Mh, this will be more interesting once we know Jim's alignment. Or once we know joth is scum, if he's scum.

Like, if Jim is scum, then this makes joth look good. If joth is scum, this makes Jim look good.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on December 29, 2018, 05:17:23 pm
Request prods on LaLight, Dylan, mcmc, Jimmmmm

Prods sent to Dylan, mcmc and Jimmmmm.

LL had already posted by the time I read your request.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: silverspawn on December 29, 2018, 05:26:33 pm
This game is tough to get a feel for. I reread all of day 1 and still don't have anything resembling a strong case.

I'm not certainly not opposed to a robz lynch. Probably prefer joth, though.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on December 29, 2018, 07:10:13 pm
I'm not certainly not opposed to a robz lynch. Probably prefer joth, though.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: DatSwan on December 29, 2018, 07:57:34 pm
This is Robz at L-2 right?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: DatSwan on December 29, 2018, 07:59:17 pm
I'm not certainly not opposed to a robz lynch. Probably prefer joth, though.
This game is tough to get a feel for. I reread all of day 1 and still don't have anything resembling a strong case.

I'm not certainly not opposed to a robz lynch. Probably prefer joth, though.


Why donít you guys like Snow?
Also why not vote for Joth if you prefer it?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dylan32 on December 29, 2018, 09:58:50 pm
Forgot to put it in the VLA thread, but I did say here I would be VLA until new years.

My gut read on UoS is scum, but he's mostly been tunneling me the whole game, so it might be a little OMGUS.

I'm still skeptical of the Mason claim, however faust's posts from 527 to 547 do actually make the mason narrative for his and Swan's behavior actually seem plausible instead of just coming across like a totally stubborn and antitown willingness to take it through to a no lynch.

I'm not really a fan of the Robz wagon.  LL seems like he's done a ton of sheeping this game-continuing with his Robz vote. I can see Joth going either way depending on what I want to see when I read him, and there's the aforementioned skepticism about faust.

If it looks like it's going to come down to the two, I would prefer Vote: UmbrageOfSnow. I'm leaning slightly town on Robz, although if Joth is town, then his point on Robz does actually make sense. I would probably rather lynch Joth or LL over Robz though.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: silverspawn on December 30, 2018, 04:41:12 am
I'm not certainly not opposed to a robz lynch. Probably prefer joth, though.
This game is tough to get a feel for. I reread all of day 1 and still don't have anything resembling a strong case.

I'm not certainly not opposed to a robz lynch. Probably prefer joth, though.


Why donít you guys like Snow?
Also why not vote for Joth if you prefer it?

Didn't want to vote until I was caught up fully.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: silverspawn on December 30, 2018, 04:42:03 am
Or rather, reread everything. It's not like I didn't read it the first time.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: silverspawn on December 30, 2018, 04:52:40 am
Lots of people suspecting masons, for some reason. I think no-one has pointed out that scum basically can't fakeclaim masons here because they don't know whether there's a UB, and if there was then the mason claim would totally not work. I mean, scum who doesn't understand probability could maybe be reckless enough to do it, but the second claimed mason is faust who has majored in mathematics, so that's no a thing.

Masons are town.

The three people who have voiced their suspicion are Dylan, then joth, then robz (correct me if it's also someone else). I think it makes Dylan town, but I'm not sure about the other two.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: silverspawn on December 30, 2018, 04:55:00 am
I just had a dream, that faust was Mason AND IC, but we lynched him and he was scum

This clearly shows your paranoia about faust as a player and his ability to be persuasive as scum
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: silverspawn on December 30, 2018, 04:56:36 am
LaLight has very train-of-thought-y post sequences. I think that's towny.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: silverspawn on December 30, 2018, 05:03:16 am
Damn and that's already it.

So Dylan has a bunch of things that I think are more likely to come from town than scum. One is his treatments of the masons, first throwing suspicion then just now saying faust's narrative has been sorta convincing. Difficult to imagine scum who knows it's true from the start handling it that way. Another is his talk about the Jim wagon feeling towny, (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?action=post;quote=780924;topic=19249.0;last_msg=781342) a third one is this post

Vote: DatSwan for a reason that I'm not gonna share right now.

(I know no-one is even debating dylan right now, but he's the only case where I can put my read into words)
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: silverspawn on December 30, 2018, 05:14:16 am
With joth, my suspicion basically boils down to me going 'let's imagine joth is scum. do his posts feel coherent with that?" and concluding that they do. His posts tend to be sensible and lengthy, and are missing the edge that town people who are wrong about stuff tend to have.

Here's an auto-generated voting history (no guarantee that the L-X annotations are correct, though I tried to fix them).

#54: jotheonah votes Robz888 (L-6)
#61: jotheonah votes Jimmmmm (L-5)
#161: jotheonah votes Dylan32 (L-3)
#174: jotheonah votes DatSwan (L-4)
#224: jotheonah votes Jimmmmm (L-6)
#226: jotheonah votes silverspawn (L-4)
#280: jotheonah votes DatSwan (L-4)
#331: jotheonah votes DatSwan (L-3)
#352: jotheonah votes Jimmmmm (L-5)
#356: jotheonah votes DatSwan (L-3)
#386: jotheonah votes Jimmmmm (L-2)
#489: jotheonah votes Galzria (hammer)
#534: jotheonah votes DatSwan (L-5)
#555: jotheonah unvotes
#620: jotheonah votes UmbrageOfSnow (L-4)
#634: jotheonah votes Robz888 (L-3)
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: silverspawn on December 30, 2018, 05:15:41 am
There might be zero scum in there.

Well, vote: joth let's see if this takes off.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on December 30, 2018, 05:34:35 am
I'm going back and forth a bit on Dylan. Otherwise I agree with most of what silver says.

Vote: joth
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on December 30, 2018, 08:25:38 am
There might be zero scum in there.
You could say this of literally any list that includes less than 10 players.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on December 30, 2018, 08:26:49 am
With joth, my suspicion basically boils down to me going 'let's imagine joth is scum. do his posts feel coherent with that?" and concluding that they do. His posts tend to be sensible and lengthy, and are missing the edge that town people who are wrong about stuff tend to have.
Do joth's posts feel coherent with him being town?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 30, 2018, 08:50:59 am
vote: joth

Sorry been super super busy will be more active after New Years lets hope.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on December 30, 2018, 08:54:33 am
With joth, my suspicion basically boils down to me going 'let's imagine joth is scum. do his posts feel coherent with that?" and concluding that they do. His posts tend to be sensible and lengthy, and are missing the edge that town people who are wrong about stuff tend to have.

Here's an auto-generated voting history (no guarantee that the L-X annotations are correct, though I tried to fix them).

#54: jotheonah votes Robz888 (L-6)
#61: jotheonah votes Jimmmmm (L-5)
#161: jotheonah votes Dylan32 (L-3)
#174: jotheonah votes DatSwan (L-4)
#224: jotheonah votes Jimmmmm (L-6)
#226: jotheonah votes silverspawn (L-4)
#280: jotheonah votes DatSwan (L-4)
#331: jotheonah votes DatSwan (L-3)
#352: jotheonah votes Jimmmmm (L-5)
#356: jotheonah votes DatSwan (L-3)
#386: jotheonah votes Jimmmmm (L-2)
#489: jotheonah votes Galzria (hammer)
#534: jotheonah votes DatSwan (L-5)
#555: jotheonah unvotes
#620: jotheonah votes UmbrageOfSnow (L-4)
#634: jotheonah votes Robz888 (L-3)


This is a nothingburger case that's sort of hard to respond to, but I'll give it a try. I think there are definitely some things I've said and done that aren't consistent with me being scum.

One, why does scum!me hammer Galz? I've already said I was going to bed. I come back in the last few minutes of the day. Does scum!me really risk the heat from essentially quickhammering Galzria when he could achieve a no-lynch, which we had, even at that point, openly established was pro-scum, just by doing nothing? And Galzria in particular was reading me pretty towny and is a good player to have on your side, so it makes even less sense. That was a hard decision to make as town, but I can't see any explanation for me making it as scum.

The edge thing sounds like a gut read. I haven't been holding back. I have been trying to stay cognizant of my tendency to tunnel and trying to keep an open mind, so maybe that has made my posts less "edgy".

Quote from: silverspawn

So Dylan has a bunch of things that I think are more likely to come from town than scum. One is his treatments of the masons, first throwing suspicion then just now saying faust's narrative has been sorta convincing. Difficult to imagine scum who knows it's true from the start handling it that way.


Both Robz and I basically treated the Mason claim exactly the same way, first throwing suspicion and then coming around to it because of faust's claim. Weird that that's super towny for Dylan and not worth noting for Robz or me. It could just as easily be scum coming into the day thinking they could push a mason lynch through and then backing off when it looked like it wasn't working. I don't think it is that, because I know I'm not scum, but I don't think it's a town tell. It's null.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: silverspawn on December 30, 2018, 09:18:28 am
With joth, my suspicion basically boils down to me going 'let's imagine joth is scum. do his posts feel coherent with that?" and concluding that they do. His posts tend to be sensible and lengthy, and are missing the edge that town people who are wrong about stuff tend to have.
Do joth's posts feel coherent with him being town?
Yes, unfortunately. But there are people who only feel consistent with town. In fact, that's most people.

There might be zero scum in there.
You could say this of literally any list that includes less than 10 players.
Yeah, but you're taking something literal which I obviously don't intend to be literal. The literal meaning of what I said was something like "based on my current reads, I assign an unusually high probability that every person who joth voted this game is town."
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: silverspawn on December 30, 2018, 09:20:54 am
One, why does scum!me hammer Galz?
I'm pretty sure I'd hammer there as either alignment. Lynching town is worse than lynching no-one for sure, and you don't get any scum points for hammering town since you had to. It's a super safe play (you'll notice that I didn't find you scummy for doing it).

The edge thing sounds like a gut read.

it is.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: silverspawn on December 30, 2018, 09:45:32 am
Quote
Both Robz and I basically treated the Mason claim exactly the same way, first throwing suspicion and then coming around to it because of faust's claim. Weird that that's super towny for Dylan and not worth noting for Robz or me

That's not weird. Dylan did it first, you followed. You can debate this, buy my take was that doing it first is towny, doing it second nullish to scummy.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on December 30, 2018, 11:39:08 am
Vote Count 2.5

UmbrageOfSnow (3): DatSwan, Robz888, Dylan32
Robz888 (4): faust, UmbrageOfSnow, jotheonah, LaLight
jotheonah (3): silverspawn, Jimmmmm, mcmcsalot

Not Voting (0)

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. D2 ends at 23:59 Czech time (5.59pm Forum Time) on Sunday 30th December. This is in just under 6.5 hours' time.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: silverspawn on December 30, 2018, 11:44:58 am
It's still not a good case, but I haven't seen a better one.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on December 30, 2018, 12:26:34 pm
I'll be at an MtG draft most of the day (including until deadline) but I'll try to check in on my phone.

I would urge people to consider the Robz case. I think it's the only one of these three wagons based on much of anything.

I'd switch back to snow to get a lynch through or if someone actually articulates a case that makes sense to me.

I would not switch to joth, even to avoid a no-lynch.

I'll be checking in periodically to answer questions if people have them and, if necessary, to claim at L-1. Hopefully that won't be necessary.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on December 30, 2018, 12:31:17 pm
Oh, there's a wagon against me! It's somewhat deserved, hell yes I've been buddying Joth, I was excited to have him back playing mafia.

When I sheeped his UoS vote, my post saying "Same" was not intending to indicate that I felt the same way he did about the other wagons, but that I too was about to be unavailable and just needed to park a vote somewhere. The Umbrage vote was somewhat random, and if I had thought about it for longer I probably would have gone somewhere else, but I was literally about to pull out of the driveway to begin a 10 hour drive.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on December 30, 2018, 12:32:27 pm
I think I would like to go back to Vote: Jimmmmm. We should have lynched him yesterday.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on December 30, 2018, 12:51:18 pm
There might be zero scum in there.
You could say this of literally any list that includes less than 10 players.
Yeah, but you're taking something literal which I obviously don't intend to be literal. The literal meaning of what I said was something like "based on my current reads, I assign an unusually high probability that every person who joth voted this game is town."
And who do you think is more likely to do that, town or scum?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on December 30, 2018, 12:52:30 pm
I think I would like to go back to Vote: Jimmmmm. We should have lynched him yesterday.
We have 5 hours left. Please do something useful with your vote.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: silverspawn on December 30, 2018, 01:00:42 pm
There might be zero scum in there.
You could say this of literally any list that includes less than 10 players.
Yeah, but you're taking something literal which I obviously don't intend to be literal. The literal meaning of what I said was something like "based on my current reads, I assign an unusually high probability that every person who joth voted this game is town."
And who do you think is more likely to do that, town or scum?

scum, because town would hit scum just by accident if nothing else.

Last game I was scum, robz (?) suggested immediately that we don't bus at all. If this scum team is similarly opposed to bussing...

I mean, it's not a strong argument, but it's not quite nohting.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on December 30, 2018, 01:09:04 pm
There might be zero scum in there.
You could say this of literally any list that includes less than 10 players.
Yeah, but you're taking something literal which I obviously don't intend to be literal. The literal meaning of what I said was something like "based on my current reads, I assign an unusually high probability that every person who joth voted this game is town."
And who do you think is more likely to do that, town or scum?

scum, because town would hit scum just by accident if nothing else.

Last game I was scum, robz (?) suggested immediately that we don't bus at all. If this scum team is similarly opposed to bussing...

I mean, it's not a strong argument, but it's not quite nohting.
It's really quite nothing. It's a weak argument that builds on other unsubstantiated reads to even work.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on December 30, 2018, 01:41:08 pm
I didnít see vote count or deadline info, vote: Umbrage
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: silverspawn on December 30, 2018, 02:23:26 pm
There might be zero scum in there.
You could say this of literally any list that includes less than 10 players.
Yeah, but you're taking something literal which I obviously don't intend to be literal. The literal meaning of what I said was something like "based on my current reads, I assign an unusually high probability that every person who joth voted this game is town."
And who do you think is more likely to do that, town or scum?

scum, because town would hit scum just by accident if nothing else.

Last game I was scum, robz (?) suggested immediately that we don't bus at all. If this scum team is similarly opposed to bussing...

I mean, it's not a strong argument, but it's not quite nohting.
It's really quite nothing. It's a weak argument that builds on other unsubstantiated reads to even work.

weak * weak = very weak > nothing
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on December 30, 2018, 02:50:50 pm
So... I'm around. Anybody else?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on December 30, 2018, 03:00:20 pm
I am now here, and will be from now until deadline.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on December 30, 2018, 03:07:19 pm
I know why Jo and LL are voting for me, but why is faust voting for me?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on December 30, 2018, 03:07:58 pm
Is your vote moveable, UoS?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on December 30, 2018, 03:08:07 pm
So all the people who prefer a Joth lynch over a Robz lynch, why?

I was actually thinking I would vote Joth a few days back but on reread I thought he felt townier than I'd remembered feeling.

PPE 2
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on December 30, 2018, 03:09:32 pm
So that's a yes, I have been considering Joth off and on, right now I find Robz scummier, but a Joth lynch appealed to me somewhat even if it wasn't potentially him-or-me.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on December 30, 2018, 03:44:00 pm
A Joth lynch doesn't really appeal to me much, though it appeals to me more than a me lynch.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on December 30, 2018, 03:44:18 pm
I know why Jo and LL are voting for me, but why is faust voting for me?
Because you're scum.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on December 30, 2018, 03:47:02 pm
Among the three options available, Robz is the best by a mile. UoS and joth are easily the towniest people around except for me and DatSwan.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on December 30, 2018, 03:48:27 pm
So I ask everyone here to get their act together and do the right thing. Especially you, silver.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on December 30, 2018, 03:54:25 pm
Well it's hard to argue against Mason!faust, particularly when I agree with him that the alternatives to my own lynch aren't the most compelling...
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on December 30, 2018, 03:55:11 pm
Joth's case on me was a perfectly fine case. I have sheeped him, yes, although the sheeped vote for Umbrage wss largely because I too was about be VLA and didn't know if I'd be back in time for the end of the game.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on December 30, 2018, 03:55:49 pm
So, I don't know what else to do, to address the case against me.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on December 30, 2018, 03:55:58 pm
Well it's hard to argue against Mason!faust, particularly when I agree with him that the alternatives to my own lynch aren't the most compelling...
Well, you could try to get a wagon started on someone who's actually scummy, like silver.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on December 30, 2018, 03:57:57 pm
Well it's hard to argue against Mason!faust, particularly when I agree with him that the alternatives to my own lynch aren't the most compelling...
Well, you could try to get a wagon started on someone who's actually scummy, like silver.

Dude, you JUST berated me for having my vote somewhere it wasn't doing any good! How would a lone silver vote be useful?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: silverspawn on December 30, 2018, 04:50:33 pm
vote: robz
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: silverspawn on December 30, 2018, 04:51:02 pm
So, I don't know what else to do, to address the case against me.
dude you already admitted that it was a good case. what credibility could a defense possibly have?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on December 30, 2018, 04:54:26 pm
So, I don't know what else to do, to address the case against me.
dude you already admitted that it was a good case. what credibility could a defense possibly have?

If I don't have any credibility in your view, me saying it's a good case shoudn't matter!
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on December 30, 2018, 04:55:57 pm
I mean, it's not a *good* case: it's wrong. But I appreciate what it attempts to argue. I guess where it falls apart, what I should have said, is that me buddying Joth and me sheeping him are not particularly scummy things for me to do.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on December 30, 2018, 04:57:13 pm
Oh, I'm at L-1. This probably seals my fate but I am a Vanilla Townie.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: silverspawn on December 30, 2018, 04:59:19 pm
So, I don't know what else to do, to address the case against me.
dude you already admitted that it was a good case. what credibility could a defense possibly have?

If I don't have any credibility in your view, me saying it's a good case shoudn't matter!

I didn't say you don't have any credibility, I said a defense won't have credibility because you already admitted that the case is at least decent.

I'm fairly confused by that. Cases on me are universally bad if I'm town.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: silverspawn on December 30, 2018, 05:00:03 pm
vote: joth

why are so few people here?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on December 30, 2018, 05:00:53 pm
I mean, it's not a *good* case: it's wrong. But I appreciate what it attempts to argue. I guess where it falls apart, what I should have said, is that me buddying Joth and me sheeping him are not particularly scummy things for me to do.

Maybe not, if you had done anything else. But all youíve done is buddy and sheep me and mcmc and faust.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on December 30, 2018, 05:02:40 pm
I mean, it's not a *good* case: it's wrong. But I appreciate what it attempts to argue. I guess where it falls apart, what I should have said, is that me buddying Joth and me sheeping him are not particularly scummy things for me to do.

Maybe not, if you had done anything else. But all youíve done is buddy and sheep me and mcmc and faust.

I think at one point at least mcmc was sheeping me, not the other way around. Faust is an admitted Mason so sheeping him isn't some crime. You "sheeped" my suspicion of the Mason trio, does that make you bahhhhhhhhhhhhh(d)?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on December 30, 2018, 05:04:39 pm
Vote: Jotheonah, purely for my own survival.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on December 30, 2018, 05:19:23 pm
Sorry, a short distraction turned into a huge distraction, as I said, today wasn't actually better for me but I voted for the extension because Christmas is anti-town. Anyway, I'm here and not really inclined to move my vote.

vote: joth

why are so few people here?

Does Robz always fakeclaim as scum?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on December 30, 2018, 05:19:56 pm
Sorry, a short distraction turned into a huge distraction, as I said, today wasn't actually better for me but I voted for the extension because Christmas is anti-town. Anyway, I'm here and not really inclined to move my vote.

vote: joth

why are so few people here?

Does Robz always fakeclaim as scum?

*whispers: Yes*
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on December 30, 2018, 05:23:15 pm
I want to know if that's why SS got off the wagon
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on December 30, 2018, 05:25:08 pm
By the way, I saw that Joth was working on a post for a while, and then ever posted it, just now. Scummy!
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: silverspawn on December 30, 2018, 05:28:02 pm
I'm not sure why I went off wagon.

In my first game, town!robz refused to claim as a PR
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on December 30, 2018, 05:31:41 pm
My vote is movable to uos, honestly donít have a strong town read on either him or joth but donít have a great read on either period.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on December 30, 2018, 05:32:40 pm
Is 2 votes enough to make UoS happen? I could also move.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on December 30, 2018, 05:33:28 pm
I mean, it's not a *good* case: it's wrong. But I appreciate what it attempts to argue. I guess where it falls apart, what I should have said, is that me buddying Joth and me sheeping him are not particularly scummy things for me to do.

Maybe not, if you had done anything else. But all youíve done is buddy and sheep me and mcmc and faust.

I think at one point at least mcmc was sheeping me, not the other way around. Faust is an admitted Mason so sheeping him isn't some crime. You "sheeped" my suspicion of the Mason trio, does that make you bahhhhhhhhhhhhh(d)?

How about having an original thought though?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on December 30, 2018, 05:36:47 pm
What's with the deadlines being at what I presume is the start of the 59th minute of the hour?

24 minutes left, I am getting kicked out of this coffee shop exactly at deadline, so that works out nicely.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dylan32 on December 30, 2018, 05:38:56 pm
I am around and could move
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on December 30, 2018, 05:39:34 pm
I will move to the most viable non-me wagon, essentially.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on December 30, 2018, 05:40:24 pm
Vote: Umbrage
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: silverspawn on December 30, 2018, 05:41:51 pm
vote: robz
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on December 30, 2018, 05:44:08 pm
Was that hammer? Vote count?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on December 30, 2018, 05:45:14 pm
Vote Count 2.UoS

UmbrageOfSnow (3): DatSwan, Robz888, Dylan32
Robz888 (5): faust, UmbrageOfSnow, jotheonah, LaLight, silverspawn
jotheonah (2): Jimmmmm, mcmcsalot

Not Voting (0)

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dylan32 on December 30, 2018, 05:46:03 pm
Not hammer, silver has just been flipping back and forth.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dylan32 on December 30, 2018, 05:47:31 pm
Honestly, I would move to anyone. I think I prefer Joth a bit to Robz, but it's not a real strong preference.

Also, silver was unannounced L-1
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on December 30, 2018, 05:47:42 pm
Mcmc, silver, and Joth would need to vote UoS to make that happen.

Me, mcmc, silver and either UoS or Dylan need to go Joth for that to happen.

For me to happen, uh, everybody do nothing.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on December 30, 2018, 05:48:51 pm
Honestly, I would move to anyone. I think I prefer Joth a bit to Robz, but it's not a real strong preference.

Also, silver was unannounced L-1

Robz has already claimed and it's 15 minutes to deadline
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on December 30, 2018, 05:49:42 pm
Right, and I assume Dylan is going to vote for me before deadline--I would do that if I were Dylan--so this is not looking good.

Vote: Joth
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dylan32 on December 30, 2018, 05:51:33 pm
yeah intent to hammer, unless people are willing to go to Joth or UoS.

ppe 1
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on December 30, 2018, 05:53:33 pm
Mcmc showing up to express willingness to help and then quietly disappearing was not great.

None of the Masons are here, which is... interesting.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on December 30, 2018, 05:53:49 pm
yeah intent to hammer, unless people are willing to go to Joth or UoS.

ppe 1

Well that, but I meant that it's not really scummy to give an unannounced L-1 in that situation, Robz had already been at L-1, claimed, then SS got off and back on.

Point of announcing L-1 is to avoid derphammers
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on December 30, 2018, 05:55:31 pm
Joth is just hanging around hoping I die.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dylan32 on December 30, 2018, 05:55:56 pm
yeah intent to hammer, unless people are willing to go to Joth or UoS.

ppe 1

Well that, but I meant that it's not really scummy to give an unannounced L-1 in that situation, Robz had already been at L-1, claimed, then SS got off and back on.

Point of announcing L-1 is to avoid derphammers

Yeah, I meant that in terms of making clear that it was actually L-1, cuz ss's switching had already confused at least one person on whether or not there had been a hammer.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on December 30, 2018, 05:56:20 pm
We should all vote for Silverspawn!
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on December 30, 2018, 05:56:36 pm
Vote: Silverspawn
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dylan32 on December 30, 2018, 05:57:27 pm
Vote: Robz
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on December 30, 2018, 05:57:32 pm
Actually, Vote: DatSwan and Vote: Faust as an indictment of their supposed "Mason" play.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on December 30, 2018, 05:57:42 pm
Okay, I was town. Thanks a lot.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Robz888 on December 30, 2018, 05:58:23 pm
Speccy me when you get the chance, Space.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dylan32 on December 30, 2018, 05:59:38 pm
I am feeling a bit scummier towards silver after that
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dylan32 on December 30, 2018, 06:05:02 pm
If we ended up in a setup with multiple cops, I feel like faust is kind of a must target tonight to help clear up once and for all the mason conundrum.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: silverspawn on December 30, 2018, 06:36:04 pm
I keep forgetting about this. but then when I come back nothing's happened.

well, robz voted for me. now i'm not  swtiching out of principle.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: silverspawn on December 30, 2018, 06:36:57 pm
Oh he's hammered already. ok.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: DatSwan on December 30, 2018, 06:38:34 pm
I was on a delayed flight to AUS. Comment about faust is weird. If itís true they kill faust over me so probably cop me.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: silverspawn on December 30, 2018, 06:44:11 pm
Actually, Vote: DatSwan and Vote: Faust as an indictment of their supposed "Mason" play.

You're either scum fooling around or you didn't pay attention.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on December 30, 2018, 07:36:35 pm
Space likes to make us wait for the flips, eh?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on December 30, 2018, 07:41:33 pm
Vote Count 2.final

UmbrageOfSnow (1): DatSwan
Robz888 (6): faust, UmbrageOfSnow, jotheonah, LaLight, silverspawn, Dylan32
jotheonah (2): Jimmmmm, mcmcsalot
faust (1): Robz888

With 10 alive, it tooks 6 to lynch.

Robz was a prostż vesničan of team Vesničanť.


Czech fact: the word for the colour green is zelenż, or zelenŠ (or a bunch of other possible endings depending on grammatical gender, case and number).

N2 starts now and ends at 23.59 Czech time on Monday 1st January 2019. Action deadline is 1 hour before that.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on December 31, 2018, 04:22:27 pm
Correction, N2 ends at 23.59 Czech time on Tuesday 1st January 2019.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on January 01, 2019, 06:06:38 pm
äťastnż novż rok! (Happy New Year!)

A new year dawns on our little Vesnice!

silverspawn was killed in the night. He was a Blokovač RolŪ, of team Vesničanť, a Role-Blocker.

Vote Count 3.0

Not voting (8):
faust, LaLight, mcmcsalot, DatSwan, Jimmmmm, UmbrageOfSnow, jotheonah, Dylan32

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

D3 ends on Tuesday 8th January at 23.59 Czech time (17.59 forum time).

Thread Unlocked.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on January 01, 2019, 08:29:55 pm
We are not doing well. We need to view the two wagons. We also need to do a post count for clarification and drunk ama. Sorry for being busy, extra sorry to robz who I was 90% sure wastown. Letís win this game peopele
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: DatSwan on January 01, 2019, 09:10:41 pm
Ok so MYLO right?
I think skum chose SS to try and set up Faust and myslef
I think claim time might be in order here given the circumstance. It is not sure fire we find anyone from it but at this point we need all the info we can get.

Alternative would be maybe go no lynch before claim to give a potential remaining PR another shot if they exist and have one. Idk which is better though. Thoughts?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on January 01, 2019, 11:38:56 pm
No lynching or massclaiming both seem reasonable.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: DatSwan on January 02, 2019, 01:29:51 am
Looked for SS crumbs... not that it matters a ton bc roleblocker not coo... but really nothing pops out.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on January 02, 2019, 03:28:50 am
No lynch is only good here if there is serious doubt that DatSwan and me are town. Is there?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on January 02, 2019, 03:41:19 am
By the way, I suspected silver to be a PR from D1. This is what that post was about:

What do you think of silver?
I'd rather not say.

So if I really were scum, silver would have died earlier.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on January 02, 2019, 04:07:59 am
I don't see an upside in a massclaim. Scum has all the information to fakeclaim effectively, and if we really do have another PR, we do not want to out them. It is not in our interest that anyone but me and DatSwan comments on massclaiming at all.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on January 02, 2019, 04:44:30 am
Looked for SS crumbs... not that it matters a ton bc roleblocker not coo... but really nothing pops out.

I think so. If you are Town, then scum has to choose to either leave you alive or remove all doubt.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on January 02, 2019, 04:45:00 am
Whoops, quoted the wrong post. Meant to quote this one:


No lynch is only good here if there is serious doubt that DatSwan and me are town. Is there?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on January 02, 2019, 05:35:18 am
Whoops, quoted the wrong post. Meant to quote this one:


No lynch is only good here if there is serious doubt that DatSwan and me are town. Is there?
So to clarify, you think it is plausible that DatSwan and me are scum?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on January 02, 2019, 06:12:52 am
Whoops, quoted the wrong post. Meant to quote this one:


No lynch is only good here if there is serious doubt that DatSwan and me are town. Is there?
So to clarify, you think it is plausible that DatSwan and me are scum?

I think the likelihood is low, but greater than zero.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: LaLight on January 02, 2019, 06:27:37 am
I think it's really stupid for scum to try to set up faust and Swan and it works for us in a really good way, PoE is strong with this one. Also I thought silver was scum pretty probably, so I like the kill. I have a couple more days of low activity, hope I'll be more active after, sorry
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on January 02, 2019, 06:59:59 am
Whoops, quoted the wrong post. Meant to quote this one:


No lynch is only good here if there is serious doubt that DatSwan and me are town. Is there?
So to clarify, you think it is plausible that DatSwan and me are scum?

I think the likelihood is low, but greater than zero.

I tend to agree with Jimmmm here. I think itís been a weird game and so it makes sense to look at weird plays as the explanation.

But also, I donít understand what your original post is saying. What does your Mason claim have to do with the value of no-lynching?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on January 02, 2019, 07:50:14 am
Whoops, quoted the wrong post. Meant to quote this one:


No lynch is only good here if there is serious doubt that DatSwan and me are town. Is there?
So to clarify, you think it is plausible that DatSwan and me are scum?

I think the likelihood is low, but greater than zero.

I tend to agree with Jimmmm here. I think itís been a weird game and so it makes sense to look at weird plays as the explanation.

But also, I donít understand what your original post is saying. What does your Mason claim have to do with the value of no-lynching?
Well if DatSwan and me are ICs, scum is just going to lynch one of us and that's no benefit to town.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on January 02, 2019, 07:50:46 am
Whoops, quoted the wrong post. Meant to quote this one:


No lynch is only good here if there is serious doubt that DatSwan and me are town. Is there?
So to clarify, you think it is plausible that DatSwan and me are scum?

I think the likelihood is low, but greater than zero.

I tend to agree with Jimmmm here. I think itís been a weird game and so it makes sense to look at weird plays as the explanation.

But also, I donít understand what your original post is saying. What does your Mason claim have to do with the value of no-lynching?
Well if DatSwan and me are ICs, scum is just going to lynch kill one of us and that's no benefit to town.
EBWOP
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on January 02, 2019, 08:11:23 am
Whoops, quoted the wrong post. Meant to quote this one:


No lynch is only good here if there is serious doubt that DatSwan and me are town. Is there?
So to clarify, you think it is plausible that DatSwan and me are scum?

I think the likelihood is low, but greater than zero.

I tend to agree with Jimmmm here. I think itís been a weird game and so it makes sense to look at weird plays as the explanation.

But also, I donít understand what your original post is saying. What does your Mason claim have to do with the value of no-lynching?
Well if DatSwan and me are ICs, scum is just going to lynch one of us and that's no benefit to town.

You're clearly not ICs. And I don't see why scum would suddenly start killing you now. Either you are scum or scum is pretty all in on trying to convince us you're scum. Either way, I don't see them changing their pattern just because of a no-lynch.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dylan32 on January 02, 2019, 10:03:16 am
Ok, it may not be time for a massclaim, but it's time for me to claim.

I'm the UB. Inherited Galz's cop shot, checked Jimmmmm last night: guilty.

Vote: Jimmmmm


This is why I was so skeptical of the mason claim until I realized that faust actually was able to explain the EoD1 consistently with the claim.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on January 02, 2019, 10:12:03 am
Ok, it may not be time for a massclaim, but it's time for me to claim.

I'm the UB. Inherited Galz's cop shot, checked Jimmmmm last night: guilty.

Vote: Jimmmmm


This is why I was so skeptical of the mason claim until I realized that faust actually was able to explain the EoD1 consistently with the claim.

This is a lie.

Vote: Dylan
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on January 02, 2019, 10:17:13 am
Ok, it may not be time for a massclaim, but it's time for me to claim.

I'm the UB. Inherited Galz's cop shot, checked Jimmmmm last night: guilty.

Vote: Jimmmmm


This is why I was so skeptical of the mason claim until I realized that faust actually was able to explain the EoD1 consistently with the claim.

Sooo... what about this:

If we ended up in a setup with multiple cops, I feel like faust is kind of a must target tonight to help clear up once and for all the mason conundrum.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dylan32 on January 02, 2019, 10:20:19 am
Ok, it may not be time for a massclaim, but it's time for me to claim.

I'm the UB. Inherited Galz's cop shot, checked Jimmmmm last night: guilty.

Vote: Jimmmmm


This is why I was so skeptical of the mason claim until I realized that faust actually was able to explain the EoD1 consistently with the claim.

Sooo... what about this:

If we ended up in a setup with multiple cops, I feel like faust is kind of a must target tonight to help clear up once and for all the mason conundrum.

I was hoping to target DatSwan and if there was a 2nd cop they would hit you instead. But after I checked to see what was said in twilight after I left, DatSwan's post saying no target him instead worried me that if that 2nd cop existed we would both end up targeting Swan and it would be a waste, but if I targeted you and they listened the same thing would happen, so I completely sidestepped the WIFOM and checked Jim, who I had been suspicious of ever since his wagon froze D1.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dylan32 on January 02, 2019, 10:21:55 am
I realize I should have said in my post a cop should target DatSwan, knowing that would be the more normal and predictable play, which targeting faust myself, but didn't catch that until Swan read that post the way he did...
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dylan32 on January 02, 2019, 10:22:19 am
So maybe not ideal, but on the brightside, it worked out anyway
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: faust on January 02, 2019, 10:24:17 am
I am a Mason. I am not claiming my partner. We should lynch Galz.
If thereís a UB in play that did NOT auto-convert to Mason, should they claim and we lynch Swan?

Good question. I think they answer is yes, they should claim.
Vote: Jimmmmm
Almost forgot to put it in thread, but I will be VLA from Christmas Eve through New Years Day, the holidays themselves V, in between very LA for working at a conference, but I might be able to at least read and stay kind of caught up.

Relevant sequence of posts from the Mason claim onwards. No indication that Dylan might be UB.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dylan32 on January 02, 2019, 10:32:09 am
I wasn't convinced that claiming there was the best play, as other people eventually agreed later in the thread, but I assumed most people wouldn't go ahead and try to lynch Swan without the counterclaim, so I went to my 2nd choice wagon without saying anything.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on January 02, 2019, 10:38:10 am
I feel like at this point the best move is to Vote: No Lynch

Honestly I would have bet on there not being a UB. This would have truly made ICs out of Swan and me. It is scummy for joth and Jimmmmm to not have caught that.

But with things as they are, I feel that the better play is to either confirm Masons, or remove someone from the lynch pool.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on January 02, 2019, 10:42:54 am
Ok, it may not be time for a massclaim, but it's time for me to claim.

I'm the UB. Inherited Galz's cop shot, checked Jimmmmm last night: guilty.

Vote: Jimmmmm


This is why I was so skeptical of the mason claim until I realized that faust actually was able to explain the EoD1 consistently with the claim.

This is a lie.

Vote: Dylan

Coming from the person who just got copped at scum, this is not particularly compelling.

Dylan, why didn't you use your 1-shot right away -- why wait until last night?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on January 02, 2019, 10:43:43 am
Honestly I would have bet on there not being a UB. This would have truly made ICs out of Swan and me. It is scummy for joth and Jimmmmm to not have caught that.

Again, not understanding you. Not to have caught what?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on January 02, 2019, 10:44:04 am
We know the setup is CBXXXX. (The Xs can be more or less anything, and the C could instead be an E.)      
Assuming that the Masons are Town, then (at least) one of the Xs is an M.      
We know that not all 4 Xs are Ms, otherwise we would have an IC.      
So then the setup is CBMYXX, when Y != M.      
In order for the UB to not have been converted to a Mason, both Xs would have to have rolled as Ms, which would have a probability of 10% * 10% = 1%.      
      
So if the Masons are Town, there is a 99% chance that one of them was the UB. Scum obviously know this and so consider the UB claim to be relatively unlikely to be counterclaimed.

PPE 5
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on January 02, 2019, 10:44:54 am
Honestly I would have bet on there not being a UB. This would have truly made ICs out of Swan and me. It is scummy for joth and Jimmmmm to not have caught that.

Again, not understanding you. Not to have caught what?
That having no UB means Swan and me are ICs.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on January 02, 2019, 10:46:03 am
joth still seems the most likely partner. I'm picking LaLight as the third. No lynch is still probably best though.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on January 02, 2019, 10:46:59 am
Coming from the person who just got copped at scum, this is not particularly compelling.

I got copped as scum. You know this how?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on January 02, 2019, 10:47:23 am
Dylan, why didn't you use your 1-shot right away -- why wait until last night?
Right, he could have used it N1.... I missed that. The whole thing is kind of dodgy.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on January 02, 2019, 10:48:31 am
Dylan, why didn't you use your 1-shot right away -- why wait until last night?

I think you know the answer - you decided to wait until mylo to try to finish the game off with this claim.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dylan32 on January 02, 2019, 10:50:28 am
I had enough people wanting to lynch me I wasn't afraid of getting NKd and wanted to hold it until I had a smaller pool of people to target.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on January 02, 2019, 10:51:25 am
I had enough people wanting to lynch me I wasn't afraid of getting NKd and wanted to hold it until I had a smaller pool of people to target.
And scum had a smaller pool of people to roleblock?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on January 02, 2019, 10:51:32 am
Unless someone counterclaims Dylan, the Masons are confirmed to me.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on January 02, 2019, 10:52:34 am
I had enough people wanting to lynch me I wasn't afraid of getting NKd and wanted to hold it until I had a smaller pool of people to target.

Did you consider being Vigged?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dylan32 on January 02, 2019, 10:55:07 am
I had enough people wanting to lynch me I wasn't afraid of getting NKd and wanted to hold it until I had a smaller pool of people to target.
And scum had a smaller pool of people to roleblock?

Honestly hadn't even considered that...

I had enough people wanting to lynch me I wasn't afraid of getting NKd and wanted to hold it until I had a smaller pool of people to target.

Did you consider being Vigged?

... or that...
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on January 02, 2019, 10:57:05 am
If we ended up in a setup with multiple cops, I feel like faust is kind of a must target tonight to help clear up once and for all the mason conundrum.

This is a scummy post anyway. What good can come from trying to direct Night Actions in the game thread? As a rule, you trust your teammates to make their own decisions in this regard. Much more likely trying to avoid scum being Copped.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dylan32 on January 02, 2019, 10:59:48 am
If we ended up in a setup with multiple cops, I feel like faust is kind of a must target tonight to help clear up once and for all the mason conundrum.

This is a scummy post anyway. What good can come from trying to direct Night Actions in the game thread? As a rule, you trust your teammates to make their own decisions in this regard. Much more likely trying to avoid scum being Copped.

Generally agree, but considering my reasons for doubting them, I think trying to coordinate to potentially IC them in spite of scums attempts to WIFOM them all game is a case where I was willing to make an exception, and I'd do it again in a later game.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on January 02, 2019, 11:00:54 am
If we ended up in a setup with multiple cops, I feel like faust is kind of a must target tonight to help clear up once and for all the mason conundrum.

This is a scummy post anyway. What good can come from trying to direct Night Actions in the game thread? As a rule, you trust your teammates to make their own decisions in this regard. Much more likely trying to avoid scum being Copped.

Generally agree, but considering my reasons for doubting them, I think trying to coordinate to potentially IC them in spite of scums attempts to WIFOM them all game is a case where I was willing to make an exception, and I'd do it again in a later game.

Seems like a terrible waste of a 1-Shot Cop.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on January 02, 2019, 11:02:54 am
unvote
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dylan32 on January 02, 2019, 11:05:28 am
And besides, why wouldn't I just go ahead and claim a guilty result on Swan as if I went through with my supposed plan? Surely scum!me would have realized how much weaker this would all look the way it actually's gone down, but the simple fact is, I didn't think about how it looked. I was concerned about what was best, and I thought there was a decent chance that if the masons weren't, there was a decent chance that there was at least another 1-shot cop or something out there (since there were several different roles that could get a 1shot +) that would get a result on them while I looked somewhere else.

ppe 2
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on January 02, 2019, 11:07:55 am
And besides, why wouldn't I just go ahead and claim a guilty result on Swan as if I went through with my supposed plan? Surely scum!me would have realized how much weaker this would all look the way it actually's gone down, but the simple fact is, I didn't think about how it looked. I was concerned about what was best, and I thought there was a decent chance that if the masons weren't, there was a decent chance that there was at least another 1-shot cop or something out there (since there were several different roles that could get a 1shot +) that would get a result on them while I looked somewhere else.

ppe 2
Well, if you are town, know that you definitely massively misplayed.

Did you leave any breadcrumbs that show that you are a UB?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on January 02, 2019, 11:11:33 am
Surely scum!me would have realized how much weaker this would all look the way it actually's gone down

The fact that you're making this argument invalidates this argument.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on January 02, 2019, 11:13:55 am
Question to Dylan and Jimmmmm: You know one scum. Can you try to figure out who you think their partners are? Rereads would be ideal.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dylan32 on January 02, 2019, 11:15:35 am
ashes kill isn't really that strange. skum knows mason claim is true and found out 1 shot cop was in the game. They also are gonna know which PRs they have... which could pretty much be:
TTTT = 1-Shot Strongman; Roleblocker
TTT = 1-Shot Strongman; Roleblocker
TT = Strongman; Roleblocker
T = Strongman; Roleblocker
0 Ts = Strongman; Roleblocker; 1-Shot Bulletproof****

As it states in the opening thread - neither me nor my partner know if we were UB converted or not. However, it is seemingly unimportant to this point as the only difference between 4-Ts (single M role) and 4 T's (double M role), would be the existence of the UB.

Whatever... what that boils down to for me is that they probably did not make the choice based off of PR stuff. So why kill ashes? - because ashes was off the wagons.

I think that they killed ashes primarily to prevent information to be gathered from VCA on the day. Not that that is worth too much really, but it is my thought on the matter.

A double M roll would be an IC instead of masons. Masons + UB would be a triple M roll, which would have a much bigger impact on the rolls, since a triple M roll would leave us at MMMC**, rather than MC****.  So a UB being in the game seems to make the mason claim a bit weaker.

Stated as a fact rather than as hypothetical
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on January 02, 2019, 11:16:52 am
Question to Dylan and Jimmmmm: You know one scum. Can you try to figure out who you think their partners are? Rereads would be ideal.

Prereread joth seems obvious. LaLight a likely third. I should get some rereads done tomorrow.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dylan32 on January 02, 2019, 11:17:42 am
That's as close to a breadcrumb as I was willing to go, because even though I didn't consider being vigged for looking scummy, I didn't want to draw the NK by letting on that I had that cop shot too much.
ppe1
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on January 02, 2019, 11:18:23 am
ashes kill isn't really that strange. skum knows mason claim is true and found out 1 shot cop was in the game. They also are gonna know which PRs they have... which could pretty much be:
TTTT = 1-Shot Strongman; Roleblocker
TTT = 1-Shot Strongman; Roleblocker
TT = Strongman; Roleblocker
T = Strongman; Roleblocker
0 Ts = Strongman; Roleblocker; 1-Shot Bulletproof****

As it states in the opening thread - neither me nor my partner know if we were UB converted or not. However, it is seemingly unimportant to this point as the only difference between 4-Ts (single M role) and 4 T's (double M role), would be the existence of the UB.

Whatever... what that boils down to for me is that they probably did not make the choice based off of PR stuff. So why kill ashes? - because ashes was off the wagons.

I think that they killed ashes primarily to prevent information to be gathered from VCA on the day. Not that that is worth too much really, but it is my thought on the matter.

A double M roll would be an IC instead of masons. Masons + UB would be a triple M roll, which would have a much bigger impact on the rolls, since a triple M roll would leave us at MMMC**, rather than MC****.  So a UB being in the game seems to make the mason claim a bit weaker.

Stated as a fact rather than as hypothetical

Nice find.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dylan32 on January 02, 2019, 11:21:19 am
...quote...

Nice find.

I did use that phrasing on purpose, didn't have to go digging as you seem to be suggesting.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on January 02, 2019, 11:22:42 am
Honestly I would have bet on there not being a UB. This would have truly made ICs out of Swan and me. It is scummy for joth and Jimmmmm to not have caught that.

Again, not understanding you. Not to have caught what?
That having no UB means Swan and me are ICs.


Oh, because the only scenario with no UB is one in which one converted. But we don't know if there is a UB or not, so you aren't. We talked about asking a UB to claim on day 1 and ultimately decided not to. Now we do have a UB claim.

So there's two possibilities here:

1) DatSwan, faust, and Jimmmmm are the scum team. They presumably talked N0 about what they would do if forced to claim and decided on a mason gambit. DatSwan calimed Mason without claiming his partner, leaving himself open to claim his scum partner later but not tying him to someone if he didn't had to. But somehow the wagon moved from DatSwan to Jimmmm, leading to Swan's scummy refusal to move to the Jimmmmm wagon night 1.

On Day 2, Umbrage asks faust if he's a mason. scum!faust gets forced into deciding whether to go whole hog with the mason claim and decides to do it. They begin an aggressive campaign to IC themselves, hoping town won't notice that they keep not being nightkilled.

This is seeming less and less crazy and more and more likely given the evidence that we have. I'm not particularly disturbed by the fact that Dylan didn't come out with his UB claim earlier, since doing so would have meant giving up his potentially valuable cop shot.

2) DatSwan and faust are masons. Dylan is scum. In this case, we need to explain why scum didn't kill the masons and why they are risking a proactive cop claim when they are doing pretty well without one. As to number one, the only thing that makes any sense is that they're doing this all to frame Swan and faust. But that's almost as insane a scum play as claiming masons in the first place. Isn't it? Doesn't scum just kill the claimed mason right away night 1, instead of killing ashersky? Dylan's partners here must be Umbrage, mcmc, or LaLight (or me, if you're not me and you didn't see my role PM like I did)

3) DatSwan and faust are scum, Dylan is their partner. This is a possibility we need to consider. The scum have been doing very well with their mason claim, and now need only one more mislynch to win the game. They also know that UB is a relatively safe fakeclaim. So they decide to try a hail mary. If it works, they win. If Dylan gets lynched, hey faust and Swan get to keep on being "IC"s into the end game.

I guess at the end of the day what I'm saying is

A) Scums claiming mason day 1 is nutty, but so is scum leaving masons alive over and over. Since we're dealing with crazy scum either way, someone will have to convince me that one crazy scenario is more likely than the other. Also given exactly how things went down, I can see Swan and faust kind of falling backwards into the plan, which makes it a little less crazy gutsy.

B) No lynching and getting one more NK will give us more information. But not that much more. If faust or Swan gets NKd (and flip Mason) then we are back here with an IC, but we still don't know whether Dylan or Jimmm is scum and we don't know where the other two scum are amongst me, Umbrage, lalight, and mcmc. There's almost zero chance Dylan or Jimmmmm gets NKd. If anyone else gets NK'd we have shrunken the pool of possible scum, but we will still have to decide whether or not we believe the masons are masons. I'm fine with doing it, but I think mostly it delays the inevitable.

Final note, my gut here is to believe Dylan and not Jimmmm, although the tiny math chance gives me pause. Gut read, Jimmmmm is acting right now exactly like scum!Jimmmm from scenario 1 would act. He's acting like he had prepared for this possibility in advance. Look how quick he was with the math post.

Final final note: It's going to be really hard to lynch scum today. With 8 alive, and 3 scum, we literally need every town player on a wagon to lynch successfully. So if we're in scenario 1, for instance, that means mcmc, Umbrage, and Lalight need to show up soon and be active and we all need to agree to lynch Jimmmmm or a Mason claimant.

PPE: 14. Just going to post, will respond to new stuff after.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on January 02, 2019, 11:23:07 am
Just noticed I said 2 possibilities than listed three. Sorry, thought of another one midway through.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on January 02, 2019, 11:26:01 am
I would very much like to hear from everybody else.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on January 02, 2019, 11:26:23 am
...quote...

Nice find.

I did use that phrasing on purpose, didn't have to go digging as you seem to be suggesting.

Yeah that's probably true.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dylan32 on January 02, 2019, 11:28:22 am
There is a 4th possibility, masons and I are all telling the truth and we are the 1%
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Dylan32 on January 02, 2019, 11:28:41 am
There is a 4th possibility, masons and I are all telling the truth and we are the 1%

Re: Joth's wall of text
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on January 02, 2019, 11:28:56 am
3) DatSwan and faust are scum, Dylan is their partner. This is a possibility we need to consider. The scum have been doing very well with their mason claim, and now need only one more mislynch to win the game. They also know that UB is a relatively safe fakeclaim. So they decide to try a hail mary. If it works, they win. If Dylan gets lynched, hey faust and Swan get to keep on being "IC"s into the end game.
This is impossible, as there would have to be an actual UB out there somewhere. Well I guess not impossible, not everyone has had the chance to counterclaim, but you know...
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on January 02, 2019, 11:33:14 am
3) DatSwan and faust are scum, Dylan is their partner. This is a possibility we need to consider. The scum have been doing very well with their mason claim, and now need only one more mislynch to win the game. They also know that UB is a relatively safe fakeclaim. So they decide to try a hail mary. If it works, they win. If Dylan gets lynched, hey faust and Swan get to keep on being "IC"s into the end game.
This is impossible, as there would have to be an actual UB out there somewhere. Well I guess not impossible, not everyone has had the chance to counterclaim, but you know...

Right! Sorry, setup math is not my forte.

I think I also left out the possibility that Jimm is scum and his partners are not faust and Swan. Which is of course possible.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on January 02, 2019, 11:35:46 am
I mean don't get me wrong, I would love a counterclaim just to add that extra dose of craziness.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on January 02, 2019, 11:37:37 am
I mean don't get me wrong, I would love a counterclaim just to add that extra dose of craziness.

Congratulations on being alive, by the way.

I mean, not so much if youíre scum, but if youíre town congrats. Maybe your streak is coming to an end.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on January 02, 2019, 11:45:41 am
I mean don't get me wrong, I would love a counterclaim just to add that extra dose of craziness.

Congratulations on being alive, by the way.

I mean, not so much if youíre scum, but if youíre town congrats. Maybe your streak is coming to an end.
I mean if it's just due to my bad reads then I'm not sure that is congratulations-worthy.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on January 02, 2019, 11:52:12 am
2) DatSwan and faust are masons. Dylan is scum. In this case, we need to explain why scum didn't kill the masons and why they are risking a proactive cop claim when they are doing pretty well without one.

Again, we don't need to explain scum's behaviour at all. The fact that you're arguing this is the explanation. Do someone kind of crazy late enough in the game that you can likely get away with it => argue that it's so crazy that scum would never do it => win the game.

Quote
As to number one, the only thing that makes any sense is that they're doing this all to frame Swan and faust.

No, you're doing it to frame me. Obviously. One more mislynch is probably all you need, so this is how you're attempting to get it.

Quote
But that's almost as insane a scum play as claiming masons in the first place. Isn't it? Doesn't scum just kill the claimed mason right away night 1, instead of killing ashersky?

Not if you want to make this argument.

Quote
3) DatSwan and faust are scum, Dylan is their partner. This is a possibility we need to consider. The scum have been doing very well with their mason claim, and now need only one more mislynch to win the game. They also know that UB is a relatively safe fakeclaim. So they decide to try a hail mary. If it works, they win. If Dylan gets lynched, hey faust and Swan get to keep on being "IC"s into the end game.

This is false and a scumslip. If Swan, faust and Dylan are the scum team, then the real UB is still out there, and UB would be an entirely unsafe fakeclaim. But you know that UB is a relatively safe fakeclaim and so messed up your story here.

Quote
Final note, my gut here is to believe Dylan and not Jimmmm, although the tiny math chance gives me pause. Gut read, Jimmmmm is acting right now exactly like scum!Jimmmm from scenario 1 would act. He's acting like he had prepared for this possibility in advance. Look how quick he was with the math post.

I posted #754 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19249.msg781607#msg781607) when I saw Dylan's claim and #764 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19249.msg781618#msg781618) 32 minutes later. Plenty of time to grab some paper, come up with a figure of 97.3%, realise that 4 Ms were impossible, change it to 99%, and do my best to make the post clear and concise.

Quote
So if we're in scenario 1, for instance, that means mcmc, Umbrage, and Lalight need to show up soon and be active and we all need to agree to lynch Jimmmmm or a Mason claimant.

You'd like that wouldn't you?

PPE 6
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on January 02, 2019, 11:55:19 am
Coming from the person who just got copped at scum, this is not particularly compelling.

I got copped as scum. You know this how?

I donít. What I was trying to say was, either way you would be saying Dylan was lying. So once someone claims cop and offers a guilty result, the accused is going to say ďThis is a lieĒ no matter what. Hence, not compelling.

PPE: also not compelling, jumping on an honest math mistake and calling it a scumslip. ::)
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on January 02, 2019, 11:56:19 am
Coming from the person who just got copped at scum, this is not particularly compelling.

I got copped as scum. You know this how?

I donít. What I was trying to say was, either way you would be saying Dylan was lying. So once someone claims cop and offers a guilty result, the accused is going to say ďThis is a lieĒ no matter what. Hence, not compelling.

PPE: also not compelling, jumping on an honest math mistake and calling it a scumslip. ::)

What was the math mistake?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on January 02, 2019, 11:57:48 am
I am here not counter claiming and think we should no lynch
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on January 02, 2019, 12:05:41 pm
Coming from the person who just got copped at scum, this is not particularly compelling.

I got copped as scum. You know this how?

I donít. What I was trying to say was, either way you would be saying Dylan was lying. So once someone claims cop and offers a guilty result, the accused is going to say ďThis is a lieĒ no matter what. Hence, not compelling.

PPE: also not compelling, jumping on an honest math mistake and calling it a scumslip. ::)

What was the math mistake?

forgetting that faust and swan being scum means there must be a UB.

well, unless there is a second set of real masons, but that would be totally insane and is probably not worth considering

I am here not counter claiming and think we should no lynch

Cool cool. Do you have any other comments on what's going on?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on January 02, 2019, 12:12:45 pm
Coming from the person who just got copped at scum, this is not particularly compelling.

I got copped as scum. You know this how?

I donít. What I was trying to say was, either way you would be saying Dylan was lying. So once someone claims cop and offers a guilty result, the accused is going to say ďThis is a lieĒ no matter what. Hence, not compelling.

PPE: also not compelling, jumping on an honest math mistake and calling it a scumslip. ::)

What was the math mistake?

forgetting that faust and swan being scum means there must be a UB.

What does that have to do with math? You didn't forget anything. You assumed that UB was a safe fakeclaim. What possible reason could you have for assuming that other than that "UB is a safe fakeclaim" was in your mind already?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on January 02, 2019, 12:14:05 pm
Anyway, I'm going to bed. No lynch is probably the right move, although there's no guarantee it will actually get us anywhere.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on January 02, 2019, 12:20:51 pm
Coming from the person who just got copped at scum, this is not particularly compelling.

I got copped as scum. You know this how?

I donít. What I was trying to say was, either way you would be saying Dylan was lying. So once someone claims cop and offers a guilty result, the accused is going to say ďThis is a lieĒ no matter what. Hence, not compelling.

PPE: also not compelling, jumping on an honest math mistake and calling it a scumslip. ::)

What was the math mistake?

forgetting that faust and swan being scum means there must be a UB.

What does that have to do with math? You didn't forget anything. You assumed that UB was a safe fakeclaim. What possible reason could you have for assuming that other than that "UB is a safe fakeclaim" was in your mind already?

Well for one thing, if it was in my mind already, it might have been because I had just read it in your post:

We know the setup is CBXXXX. (The Xs can be more or less anything, and the C could instead be an E.)      
Assuming that the Masons are Town, then (at least) one of the Xs is an M.      
We know that not all 4 Xs are Ms, otherwise we would have an IC.      
So then the setup is CBMYXX, when Y != M.      
In order for the UB to not have been converted to a Mason, both Xs would have to have rolled as Ms, which would have a probability of 10% * 10% = 1%.      
      
So if the Masons are Town, there is a 99% chance that one of them was the UB. Scum obviously know this and so consider the UB claim to be relatively unlikely to be counterclaimed.

PPE 5

But really, my brain is just not good at this stuff. I can't hold it in my head. I don't really know what else to say. I got excited and was trying to elucidate the possibilities and I made a mistake. Some people are good at setup analysis. I'm not one of them.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on January 02, 2019, 02:20:12 pm
Still reading but No Lynch is by far the best play here, if faust is sure heíll be the NK he should make a big contribution today before we no lynch, and thatís still better, even if tomorrow heíd have the kill to work with.

I claim not-UB.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on January 02, 2019, 02:21:10 pm
By the same logic I'm not inclined to give opinions on how I feel about Dylan vs. Jimmm and Faust-Swan
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on January 02, 2019, 02:26:03 pm
Okay, caught up, and on second thought, I'd totally NK me here, so maybe I should give reads after all. Thoughts on this?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on January 02, 2019, 03:43:10 pm
Okay, caught up, and on second thought, I'd totally NK me here, so maybe I should give reads after all. Thoughts on this?
I think it's not worht it to hold back at this point. For you, that is. I can still keep my thoughts in the Mason QT because even if I die DatSwan can share them.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on January 02, 2019, 03:50:19 pm
Okay, I'll call the scumtem: mcmcsalot, Joth, Dylan

Jimmm is like the scummiest possible person for Dylan to have copped, even granted that believing Dylan's cop claim depends on assuming Dylan made bad cop choices; Jimm is the player who absolutely works best with a gameplan of implicating Faust + Swan as scum fakeclaiming masons, it is by far the most convenient result to get against a scumteam of Jim-Faust-Swan if you want to push that narrative, and it makes no sense to assume there is another cop so strongly Dylan wants to avoid making a correct cop choice.

Joth's reaction to Dylan may as well be a scumbuddy claim.  Momsalon by POE.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on January 02, 2019, 05:02:25 pm
I guess I haven't actually claimed not-UB yet.

For the record, idk why people are getting the idea that I for sure believe Dylan's claim (which I guess is the basis for this idea that we're partners). I just think it needs to be considered.

To me personally, the cop claim feels to clumsy to be scum. To over-the-top and unnecessary. It doesn't make sense. And Jimmmmm's reaction felt very scummy. I mean, he really came at me. He had all kinds of frenzied defenses ready. It did not feel like a falsely accused towny to me.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on January 02, 2019, 05:06:15 pm
By the same logic I'm not inclined to give opinions on how I feel about Dylan vs. Jimmm and Faust-Swan

We need to be careful with this. I don't think it's Dylan vs Jim-Faust-Swan. It's Dylan vs Jim. Dylan could be town and Jim could be scum without Faust and Swan being scum. Masons and a UB can co-exist with a triple M role.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on January 02, 2019, 05:56:33 pm
He had all kinds of frenzied defenses ready.

This seems like an oxymoron. If I had them ready, they wouldn't be frenzied.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on January 02, 2019, 05:59:24 pm
It did not feel like a falsely accused towny to me.

How would you expect a falsely accused Townie to react with the game on the line?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: DatSwan on January 02, 2019, 09:29:03 pm
I do not believe Dylan. I am mobile now so will post later but there is just no way that they donít cop a mason as town. Even if they are worried about the shot. Itís a double IC or double skum find.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: DatSwan on January 03, 2019, 12:10:55 am
By the same logic I'm not inclined to give opinions on how I feel about Dylan vs. Jimmm and Faust-Swan

We need to be careful with this. I don't think it's Dylan vs Jim-Faust-Swan. It's Dylan vs Jim.

I agree that we need to be careful. I donít agree it MUST be Dylan Vs Jimmm, given our situation in MYLO.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on January 03, 2019, 03:33:46 am
Vote: Dylan
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on January 03, 2019, 04:11:40 am
Okay, I'll call the scumtem: mcmcsalot, Joth, Dylan

Jimmm is like the scummiest possible person for Dylan to have copped, even granted that believing Dylan's cop claim depends on assuming Dylan made bad cop choices; Jimm is the player who absolutely works best with a gameplan of implicating Faust + Swan as scum fakeclaiming masons, it is by far the most convenient result to get against a scumteam of Jim-Faust-Swan if you want to push that narrative, and it makes no sense to assume there is another cop so strongly Dylan wants to avoid making a correct cop choice.

Joth's reaction to Dylan may as well be a scumbuddy claim.  Momsalon by POE.
Have you given thought to the scenario where Jimmmmm and Dylan are both scum?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on January 03, 2019, 06:46:26 am
Vote: Dylan

Suddenly not feeling the no-lynch, eh?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on January 03, 2019, 06:47:35 am
One of you needs to unvote! If you ARE both town and Dylan is town, scum can quickhammer Dylan right now!
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on January 03, 2019, 09:44:32 am
Vote: Dylan

Suddenly not feeling the no-lynch, eh?
Correct.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on January 03, 2019, 09:45:46 am
One of you needs to unvote! If you ARE both town and Dylan is town, scum can quickhammer Dylan right now!
If Dylan is town, then one scum is already voting for him...
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on January 03, 2019, 09:46:24 am
Like, you understand that there is no way that Dylan and Jimmmmm are both scum, right?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on January 03, 2019, 09:46:52 am
Like, you understand that there is no way that Dylan and Jimmmmm are both scum town, right?
*sigh* EBWOP
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on January 03, 2019, 10:29:24 am
Like, you understand that there is no way that Dylan and Jimmmmm are both scum town, right?
*sigh* EBWOP

I think both statements are true. But with 3 scum alive, someone only needs 2 town votes on them to be hammered. So you and Swan voting makes a quickhammer possible, Jimmmm's vote notwithstanding.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on January 03, 2019, 10:30:39 am
Ok, I now see Swan is not voting yet. I guess I mis-read or misremembered.

Anyway, what's the reasoning behind not no-lynching?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: DatSwan on January 03, 2019, 10:41:45 am
Ok, I now see Swan is not voting yet. I guess I mis-read or misremembered.

Anyway, what's the reasoning behind not no-lynching?

We are going to have to make a decision eventually. With the claim it almost doesnít matter who they choose to kill at night, as tomorrow we still choose between Dylan and Jimm. But if we choose today, it pretty much forces skum to kill me or Faust, which ICs the other. Or they could keep riding this no mason kill thing out, but i donít see that likely.

Whatever - we do it now or later. If now, we get to direct Skums NK. If later, Skum gets to choose Willy nilly.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: LaLight on January 03, 2019, 12:08:59 pm
vote: no lynch

I donít really believe Dylan, but i still would not put beyond faust and DS the gambit they would play. As much as i believe they are masons i would like to see the confirmation. Iíve been fooled like this all too many times.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on January 03, 2019, 12:24:08 pm
vote: no lynch

I donít really believe Dylan, but i still would not put beyond faust and DS the gambit they would play. As much as i believe they are masons i would like to see the confirmation. Iíve been fooled like this all too many times.

You changed your tone from here:
I think it's really stupid for scum to try to set up faust and Swan and it works for us in a really good way, PoE is strong with this one. Also I thought silver was scum pretty probably, so I like the kill. I have a couple more days of low activity, hope I'll be more active after, sorry
Why?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on January 03, 2019, 12:26:30 pm
Like, you understand that there is no way that Dylan and Jimmmmm are both scum town, right?
*sigh* EBWOP

I think both statements are true. But with 3 scum alive, someone only needs 2 town votes on them to be hammered. So you and Swan voting makes a quickhammer possible, Jimmmm's vote notwithstanding.
Both statements are definitely not true. It is totally plausbile for Dylan and Jimmmmmm to both be scum.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on January 03, 2019, 01:50:16 pm
Ok, I now see Swan is not voting yet. I guess I mis-read or misremembered.

Anyway, what's the reasoning behind not no-lynching?

We are going to have to make a decision eventually. With the claim it almost doesnít matter who they choose to kill at night, as tomorrow we still choose between Dylan and Jimm. But if we choose today, it pretty much forces skum to kill me or Faust, which ICs the other. Or they could keep riding this no mason kill thing out, but i donít see that likely.

Whatever - we do it now or later. If now, we get to direct Skums NK. If later, Skum gets to choose Willy nilly.

But if we mislynch, there is no later.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on January 03, 2019, 01:52:25 pm
Like, you understand that there is no way that Dylan and Jimmmmm are both scum town, right?
*sigh* EBWOP

I think both statements are true. But with 3 scum alive, someone only needs 2 town votes on them to be hammered. So you and Swan voting makes a quickhammer possible, Jimmmm's vote notwithstanding.
Both statements are definitely not true. It is totally plausible for Dylan and Jimmmmmm to both be scum.

Is it? I mean, sure, scum accuses scum of being scum with the idea being that we lynch one and that "ICs" the other. But why do that at MyLo? You're really cutting off your nose to spite your face.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on January 03, 2019, 02:11:20 pm
I'd still like this answered, by the way:

I don't have much time tonight but I reread Dylan and my reasons for voting for him are really only from very early in the game. I will Unvote for now and hopefully have time to look at joth tomorrow.

So why did you revote him at the start of today then?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on January 03, 2019, 07:08:38 pm
I think we should be no lynching and not giving mafia info on our reads currently. Or make an argument for why we should lynch now. (I disagree with lynching now from a pure % play reason) but if anyone is going to make reads itís because they are confident enough to lynch.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on January 03, 2019, 07:19:38 pm
Vote Count 3.1

Jimmmmm (1): Dylan32
Dylan32 (2): Jimmmmm, faust
No Lynch (1): LaLight
Not Voting (4): mcmcsalot, DatSwan, UmbrageOfSnow, jotheonah

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.
D3 ends on Tuesday 8th January at 23.59 Czech time (17.59 forum time).
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on January 03, 2019, 08:05:00 pm
I'd still like this answered, by the way:

I don't have much time tonight but I reread Dylan and my reasons for voting for him are really only from very early in the game. I will Unvote for now and hopefully have time to look at joth tomorrow.

So why did you revote him at the start of today yesterday then?

Because he was my top scum read at the time and LaLight was questioning why I wasn't voting for him.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on January 04, 2019, 01:22:20 am
I think we should be no lynching and not giving mafia info on our reads currently. Or make an argument for why we should lynch now. (I disagree with lynching now from a pure % play reason) but if anyone is going to make reads itís because they are confident enough to lynch.
I don't know what that means.

If we no lynch, then we put ourselves in a position where scum only needs to convince 1 townie to win the game. So long as we do not no lynch, town still has a stronger presence relative to scum. Giving that up is worth it if we get a bunch of extra information for it, but I don't see how that is; we have to decide the Dylan vs Jimmmmm situation and unless someone can make a compelling argument for how the nightkill will inform this decision, we might as well decide today.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on January 04, 2019, 01:23:27 am
@Space: In case of a repeated no lynch/no kill, what happens?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on January 04, 2019, 03:45:18 am
Like, you understand that there is no way that Dylan and Jimmmmm are both scum town, right?
*sigh* EBWOP

I think both statements are true. But with 3 scum alive, someone only needs 2 town votes on them to be hammered. So you and Swan voting makes a quickhammer possible, Jimmmm's vote notwithstanding.
Both statements are definitely not true. It is totally plausible for Dylan and Jimmmmmm to both be scum.

Is it? I mean, sure, scum accuses scum of being scum with the idea being that we lynch one and that "ICs" the other. But why do that at MyLo? You're really cutting off your nose to spite your face.
The fact that you are making this argument is the very reason to do it.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on January 04, 2019, 05:29:24 am
@Space: In case of a repeated no lynch/no kill, what happens?

9. If the game goes on for 3 days and 3 nights without a lynch or nightkill, town wins.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: LaLight on January 04, 2019, 05:56:08 am
vote: no lynch

I donít really believe Dylan, but i still would not put beyond faust and DS the gambit they would play. As much as i believe they are masons i would like to see the confirmation. Iíve been fooled like this all too many times.

You changed your tone from here:
I think it's really stupid for scum to try to set up faust and Swan and it works for us in a really good way, PoE is strong with this one. Also I thought silver was scum pretty probably, so I like the kill. I have a couple more days of low activity, hope I'll be more active after, sorry
Why?

I started doubting.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: LaLight on January 04, 2019, 05:57:18 am
I think we should be no lynching and not giving mafia info on our reads currently. Or make an argument for why we should lynch now. (I disagree with lynching now from a pure % play reason) but if anyone is going to make reads itís because they are confident enough to lynch.
I don't know what that means.

If we no lynch, then we put ourselves in a position where scum only needs to convince 1 townie to win the game. So long as we do not no lynch, town still has a stronger presence relative to scum. Giving that up is worth it if we get a bunch of extra information for it, but I don't see how that is; we have to decide the Dylan vs Jimmmmm situation and unless someone can make a compelling argument for how the nightkill will inform this decision, we might as well decide today.

Yeah, unless weíll lynch town? Then the game will be over? The whole point of no lynch istoreduce the lynchpool and possibly create an IC
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on January 04, 2019, 06:13:35 am
Yeah I don't see faust's argument againt no-lynching. Either way we need all Town members or a bus, but if we no-lynch first, there's one fewer Townie to be convinced.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on January 04, 2019, 06:40:30 am
I think we should be no lynching and not giving mafia info on our reads currently. Or make an argument for why we should lynch now. (I disagree with lynching now from a pure % play reason) but if anyone is going to make reads itís because they are confident enough to lynch.
I don't know what that means.

If we no lynch, then we put ourselves in a position where scum only needs to convince 1 townie to win the game. So long as we do not no lynch, town still has a stronger presence relative to scum. Giving that up is worth it if we get a bunch of extra information for it, but I don't see how that is; we have to decide the Dylan vs Jimmmmm situation and unless someone can make a compelling argument for how the nightkill will inform this decision, we might as well decide today.

Yeah, unless weíll lynch town? Then the game will be over? The whole point of no lynch istoreduce the lynchpool and possibly create an IC
The lynchpool right now is {Jimmmmmm, Dylan}. I will not be reduced after one night.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on January 04, 2019, 06:41:30 am
Yeah I don't see faust's argument againt no-lynching. Either way we need all Town members or a bus, but if we no-lynch first, there's one fewer Townie to be convinced.
This is downright absurd.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on January 04, 2019, 06:42:07 am
vote: no lynch

I donít really believe Dylan, but i still would not put beyond faust and DS the gambit they would play. As much as i believe they are masons i would like to see the confirmation. Iíve been fooled like this all too many times.

You changed your tone from here:
I think it's really stupid for scum to try to set up faust and Swan and it works for us in a really good way, PoE is strong with this one. Also I thought silver was scum pretty probably, so I like the kill. I have a couple more days of low activity, hope I'll be more active after, sorry
Why?

I started doubting.
Why?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on January 04, 2019, 06:52:40 am
Like, you understand that there is no way that Dylan and Jimmmmm are both scum town, right?
*sigh* EBWOP

I think both statements are true. But with 3 scum alive, someone only needs 2 town votes on them to be hammered. So you and Swan voting makes a quickhammer possible, Jimmmm's vote notwithstanding.
Both statements are definitely not true. It is totally plausible for Dylan and Jimmmmmm to both be scum.

Is it? I mean, sure, scum accuses scum of being scum with the idea being that we lynch one and that "ICs" the other. But why do that at MyLo? You're really cutting off your nose to spite your face.
The fact that you are making this argument is the very reason to do it.

You and Jim both really like this nonargument, which can be used to respond to any argument based on the premise ďwhy would scum do XĒ?

Itís annoying because it ignores the substance of the argument. Yes, scum can do any crazy thing for the reason that ďscum would never do this crazy thingĒ. Sure.

That said, scum are still rational players trying to maximize their win condition. Arguments that say ďI think scum is less likely to do X because X makes them less likely to win than YĒ are still worthwhile.

Hereís the situation: scum had this game in the bag. All they needed today was a mislynch and we had basically no idea who they were. Thatís how today started. So what is more likely: that scum decided to throw away the game with a high risk, high reward fake cop claim, or that we rolled the unlikely-but-possible setup that had a cop and he got lucky with an unorthodox investigation choice? I think itís the second one.

By the same token, ďscum makes a fake cop claim and accuses themselves in order to guarantee the game that theyíve basically won drags on two more turnsĒ strikes me as absurdly implausible.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: LaLight on January 04, 2019, 06:56:08 am
vote: no lynch

I donít really believe Dylan, but i still would not put beyond faust and DS the gambit they would play. As much as i believe they are masons i would like to see the confirmation. Iíve been fooled like this all too many times.

You changed your tone from here:
I think it's really stupid for scum to try to set up faust and Swan and it works for us in a really good way, PoE is strong with this one. Also I thought silver was scum pretty probably, so I like the kill. I have a couple more days of low activity, hope I'll be more active after, sorry
Why?

I started doubting.
Why?

Because i reevaluated the game state. As earlier believing you was safe and correct, now i see that as long as thereís a little probability of you and Swan being scums, i need to reevaluate my seeing of the game because we can lose to you and i will be like ďoh i was fooled againĒ
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: LaLight on January 04, 2019, 06:57:05 am
I was seeing calamitas the other day and we were recalling the craziest forum mafia games, especially M88 where Robz just fooled me the whole game, i was 100% set on him being town
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on January 04, 2019, 07:05:26 am
You and Jim both really like this nonargument, which can be used to respond to any argument based on the premise ďwhy would scum do XĒ?

Being asked "why would scum do X?" is very suspect when the person asking it is likley scum. If Dylan's actions lead people to believe that he's Town because his claim wouldn't come from scum, then his actions would seem pretty solid.

Honestly when I saw his claim I thought it was clever and that it would work until I considered the likelihood of a non-Mason UB existing.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on January 04, 2019, 07:18:13 am
ereís the situation: scum had this game in the bag. All they needed today was a mislynch and we had basically no idea who they were. Thatís how today started.
See I don't think that is anywhere near true. Dylan and Jimmmmm (and you) were the most suspected people before today. If scum sits there, they would have felt the heat. And as soon as one scum flips, it's much easier to nail down the rest. I don't think a gambit to make sure that one of them survives is at all unlikely, because that's all they really need.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on January 04, 2019, 07:58:48 am
ereís the situation: scum had this game in the bag. All they needed today was a mislynch and we had basically no idea who they were. Thatís how today started.
See I don't think that is anywhere near true. Dylan and Jimmmmm (and you) were the most suspected people before today. If scum sits there, they would have felt the heat. And as soon as one scum flips, it's much easier to nail down the rest. I don't think a gambit to make sure that one of them survives is at all unlikely, because that's all they really need.

Thatís not how I would characterize the last few days. Jimm and Dylan had cases on them early on, but not lately. And I donít think thereís been a serious wagon on me all game.

Anyway, I guess if we lynch scum, we are still at MyLo tomorrow. So maybe itís not entirely implausible that theyíre playing for the next day. Anyway, if they are both scum, we still lynch one today. We just have to keep in mind that the other one is still a suspect tomorrow.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: DatSwan on January 04, 2019, 08:32:07 am
We can lynch either Dylan or Jimmm today. Or we can no lynch and lynch either Dylanís or Jimm tomorrow.
Skum will maintain a MYLO standing as long as we lynch, and a LYLO as long as we no lynch... or they will win.

Here is the thing - assuming we actually manage to somehow get to 3 players left... the one absolute certainty i can tell you is they are not gonna let that 3 player squad be faust-swan-skum.

So assuming we donít mislynch, we actually have them by the you know whatís here.
 If they kill one of us, it ICs the other... and once they kill one they have to kill the other or it leaves them with an IC in the final 3.
And as previously pointed out, they cannot have us both alive at that point either.

Ok ramble ramble - the point is that they know that fault/me are masons, and they know they need to either push a mislynch or make sure we are picked off.
If we no lynch, or lynch probably still, they kill one of us tonight. They cannot afford to let us live any longer. So the idea of waiting on a no lynch to gain more info is kinda dumb.

Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: DatSwan on January 04, 2019, 08:39:46 am
Also in regards to Dylan, everyone needs to consider just the simple likelihood:

1) did not choose to cop a mason
2) chose to cop a skummy player instead of a mid range player
3) also this would be a minimum of 5 letter roles i think
4) also also there is a GF in the game so not only did they pick off of masons but picked not the GF or town.

So after you add up all the unquantifiable absurdities... there is still the easy fact that they were 2/9 to get a guilty last night.

Ahhh!


Vote: Dylan
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on January 04, 2019, 09:12:40 am
Also in regards to Dylan, everyone needs to consider just the simple likelihood:

1) did not choose to cop a mason
2) chose to cop a skummy player instead of a mid range player
3) also this would be a minimum of 5 letter roles i think
4) also also there is a GF in the game so not only did they pick off of masons but picked not the GF or town.

So after you add up all the unquantifiable absurdities... there is still the easy fact that they were 2/9 to get a guilty last night.

Ahhh!


Vote: Dylan

What's a GF?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on January 04, 2019, 09:13:28 am
Also in regards to Dylan, everyone needs to consider just the simple likelihood:

1) did not choose to cop a mason
2) chose to cop a skummy player instead of a mid range player
3) also this would be a minimum of 5 letter roles i think
4) also also there is a GF in the game so not only did they pick off of masons but picked not the GF or town.

So after you add up all the unquantifiable absurdities... there is still the easy fact that they were 2/9 to get a guilty last night.

Ahhh!


Vote: Dylan

What's a GF?

Oh godfather. If the godfather was targeted by silver's roleblock, would that have given Dylan a scum result?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: DatSwan on January 04, 2019, 09:15:06 am
Also in regards to Dylan, everyone needs to consider just the simple likelihood:

1) did not choose to cop a mason
2) chose to cop a skummy player instead of a mid range player
3) also this would be a minimum of 5 letter roles i think
4) also also there is a GF in the game so not only did they pick off of masons but picked not the GF or town.

So after you add up all the unquantifiable absurdities... there is still the easy fact that they were 2/9 to get a guilty last night.

Ahhh!


Vote: Dylan

What's a GF?

Oh godfather. If the godfather was targeted by silver's roleblock, would that have given Dylan a scum result?

Donít believe so
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: mcmcsalot on January 04, 2019, 10:17:19 am
So statistics and logic are screaming that Dylan is mafia.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on January 04, 2019, 02:03:53 pm
Yeah I don't see faust's argument againt no-lynching. Either way we need all Town members or a bus, but if we no-lynch first, there's one fewer Townie to be convinced.

This is the argument against No Lynching. More different town to give input now.

Anyway, I'm fine with either, I'm starting to just want to lynch Dylan and get it over with but I don't care if we No Lynch either, the worst thing we can do for our win % is to stall the day out, get everyone disheartened and uninvested in the game and then No Lynch, so I'd rather pick one soon.

Vote: Dylan
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on January 04, 2019, 02:07:03 pm

Thatís not how I would characterize the last few days. Jimm and Dylan had cases on them early on, but not lately. And I donít think thereís been a serious wagon on me all game.

You were a candidate yesterday. Half the people voting Robz said they'd rather be voting you, but the wagon never took off.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on January 04, 2019, 02:07:26 pm
Did I hammer?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on January 04, 2019, 02:09:40 pm
Oh godfather. If the godfather was targeted by silver's roleblock, would that have given Dylan a scum result?

If it was that's a super non-standard interpretation of Roleblocker
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on January 04, 2019, 02:49:41 pm
How did I only just notice SS was an RB?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on January 04, 2019, 03:10:02 pm
Vote: Dylan

I'm still skeptical but DatSwan's argument is pretty persuasive. And a Dylan lynch has more upside than a Jimmmm lynch since a Dylan scum flip officially ICs the masons (right?)
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on January 04, 2019, 03:21:33 pm
So we should note there is absolutely no way Joth didn't know he was hammering in MYLO there, I'd just asked if I hammered and never posted a vote count.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on January 04, 2019, 03:23:06 pm
You've got to bus like you mean it, man.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: faust on January 04, 2019, 03:27:06 pm
Vote: Dylan

I'm still skeptical but DatSwan's argument is pretty persuasive. And a Dylan lynch has more upside than a Jimmmm lynch since a Dylan scum flip officially ICs the masons (right?)
This post makes me happy because it doesn't look like a quickhammer.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on January 04, 2019, 03:36:47 pm
So we should note there is absolutely no way Joth didn't know he was hammering in MYLO there, I'd just asked if I hammered and never posted a vote count.

Was that the hammer? Oh well. We were clearly going to lynch Dylan. Both of the masons, who apparently we've decided are definitely town, were on him, plus two other people and mcmc had expressed a willingness to vote. A lot of people were making very compelling cases that his cop claim was bunk. So ok, bad form, mea culpa, but it's not like i led us down a path we hadn't more or less decided on.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on January 04, 2019, 03:37:33 pm
Like I know I should be super sorry but ... I'm not. I just want to know if we got majorly played or not.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on January 04, 2019, 03:38:51 pm
Was that the hammer? Oh well. We were clearly going to lynch Dylan... but it's not like i led us down a path we hadn't more or less decided on.

This is exactly my point.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on January 04, 2019, 03:57:51 pm
Twilight for next couple hours. If Space doesn't come on by then, I'll end the day. On phone, so hoping they can do it.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on January 04, 2019, 05:22:29 pm
Vote Count 3.final

Jimmmmm (1): Dylan32
Dylan32 (5): Jimmmmm, faust, DatSwan, UmbrageOfSnow, jotheonah
No Lynch (1): LaLight
Not Voting (1): mcmcsalot

With 8 alive, it took 5 to lynch.

Dylan was a Kmotr of team ämejdi (Scum Godfather).


Czech phrase almost verbatim from one of today's Duolingo lessons: "Umřel před pěti minutami" -> "He died five minutes ago".

N3 starts now and ends at 23.00 Czech time (5pm forum time) on Sunday 6th January 2019. Action deadline is 1 hour before that.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on January 06, 2019, 05:24:40 pm
Dobrť rŠno vöem!

Still looking a bit violent in our little Czech Vesnice.

faust was killed in the night. He was a ZednŠř of team Vesničanť, a Mason.

Czech fact:
Like many languages, Czech has grammatical gender. Unlike many other languages, it has four different gender patterns: masculine animate, masculine inanimate, feminine and neuter. Within each of those there are several completely different declension patterns that a word might follow, and each declension pattern has 14 entries (seven cases, times singular+plural).

Vote Count 4.0

Not voting (10):
LaLight, mcmcsalot, DatSwan, Jimmmmm, UmbrageOfSnow, jotheonah

With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

D4 starts now and ends on Sunday 13th January at 23.00 Czech time (5pm forum time).

Thread Unlocked.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on January 06, 2019, 05:27:49 pm
Welp, I guess they really are Masons. Good to have that finally confirmed.

I am somewhat V/LA until Thursday but it shouldnít be too severe.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: mcmcsalot on January 06, 2019, 05:32:46 pm
Lalight and me on wagon, joth and umbrage on wagon.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: LaLight on January 06, 2019, 05:47:06 pm
Thank god theyíre masons
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: LaLight on January 06, 2019, 05:47:31 pm
Lalight and me on wagon, joth and umbrage on wagon.

Did you deliberately forget jimmmmm?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: LaLight on January 06, 2019, 05:59:27 pm
I think itís mcmc and joth.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Jimmmmm on January 06, 2019, 07:23:11 pm
Thank god theyíre masons

Of course they're Masons. Scum points for you.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: LaLight on January 06, 2019, 07:50:32 pm
Thank god theyíre masons

Of course they're Masons. Scum points for you.

Aa i was saying i was pretty sure, but not positive.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: DatSwan on January 06, 2019, 08:57:58 pm
Okie dokie - so we obv assumes faust wasnít waking up. I think we narrowed what should be todayís pool down significantly and accurately. Keeping that to myself for now for obvious reasons.

Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: DatSwan on January 06, 2019, 08:58:45 pm
I think itís mcmc and joth.

Summary?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: DatSwan on January 06, 2019, 09:02:21 pm
Jimmm - who is your top skum pick?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: mcmcsalot on January 06, 2019, 09:03:28 pm
Lalight and me on wagon, joth and umbrage on wagon.

Did you deliberately forget jimmmmm?

No I highly doubt with one mislynch needed to win the scum team decided to fake claim cop and claim a scum result on one of their own. Itís completely unnecessary so Iím pretty certain mafia is amongst lalight, joth, umbrage, (me for non me players).
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Jimmmmm on January 06, 2019, 09:16:46 pm
Jimmm - who is your top skum pick?

joth
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: jotheonah on January 06, 2019, 11:12:24 pm
Lalight and me on wagon, joth and umbrage on wagon.

Did you deliberately forget jimmmmm?

No I highly doubt with one mislynch needed to win the scum team decided to fake claim cop and claim a scum result on one of their own. Itís completely unnecessary so Iím pretty certain mafia is amongst lalight, joth, umbrage, (me for non me players).

I have a feeling this will be more or less ignored coming from everybodyís number one scumread, but itís worth noting that faust, the one person who made a point of arguing that Dylan and Jimmmm could both be scum yesterday, was last nightís kill.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: mcmcsalot on January 06, 2019, 11:21:55 pm
Lalight and me on wagon, joth and umbrage on wagon.

Did you deliberately forget jimmmmm?

No I highly doubt with one mislynch needed to win the scum team decided to fake claim cop and claim a scum result on one of their own. Itís completely unnecessary so Iím pretty certain mafia is amongst lalight, joth, umbrage, (me for non me players).

I have a feeling this will be more or less ignored coming from everybodyís number one scumread, but itís worth noting that faust, the one person who made a point of arguing that Dylan and Jimmmm could both be scum yesterday, was last nightís kill.

I think itís most likely coincidental/lucky because Iím sure faust was the go to kill because you know heís faust. Also I agree it is not impossible Dylan/jimm are both scum, if so itís just a gamble that I find extremely unlikely scum makes.

Think about the goal for Dylan had to be to get us to lynch jimm, if jimm is his partner and he wants the crowd, then scum has to kill one of faust/swan which is less than ideal since they could continue pushing that Faust/swan were lying. It loses them a member and puts them in a suboptimal position if it goes through. They also are in a sub optimal position with the claim backfiring, but I think they made a calculated risk and took the chance at winning with a jimm mislynch. Itís really the one way the claim from Dylan is reasonable.

Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Jimmmmm on January 06, 2019, 11:29:36 pm
Lalight and me on wagon, joth and umbrage on wagon.

Did you deliberately forget jimmmmm?

No I highly doubt with one mislynch needed to win the scum team decided to fake claim cop and claim a scum result on one of their own. Itís completely unnecessary so Iím pretty certain mafia is amongst lalight, joth, umbrage, (me for non me players).

I have a feeling this will be more or less ignored coming from everybodyís number one scumread, but itís worth noting that faust, the one person who made a point of arguing that Dylan and Jimmmm could both be scum yesterday, was last nightís kill.

I don't think me being given IC status is as likely as you're worried it is.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: DatSwan on January 07, 2019, 12:02:56 am
i recommend anyone that thinks Jimm could be skum do a read through and and find the third skum. We are not punching Jimm today.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: DatSwan on January 07, 2019, 12:03:38 am
i recommend anyone that thinks Jimm could be skum do a read through and and find the third skum. We are not punching Jimm today.

Lol auto correct. Lynching. Or punching. Either i suppose.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: DatSwan on January 07, 2019, 12:06:38 am
Want to clarify i am not trying to persuade people against the possibility of Jimm being skum. Just that it is negative utility to lynch him first.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on January 07, 2019, 08:55:02 am
Day 1 Lynch
silverspawn (1): ashersky
Galzria (7): faust, DatSwan, Jimmmmm, UmbrageOfSnow, mcmcsalot, silverspawn, jotheonah
Jimmmmm (4): Galzria, Robz888, Dylan32, LaLight

With 12 alive, it tool 7 to lynch.

Day 2 Lynch
UmbrageOfSnow (1): DatSwan
Robz888 (6): faust, UmbrageOfSnow, jotheonah, LaLight, silverspawn, Dylan32
jotheonah (2): Jimmmmm, mcmcpsalot
faust (1): Robz888

With 10 alive, it tooks 6 to lynch.

Day 3 Lynch
Jimmmmm (1): Dylan32
Dylan32 (5): Jimmmmm, faust, DatSwan, UmbrageOfSnow, jotheonah
No Lynch (1): LaLight
Not Voting (1): mcmcsalot

With 8 alive, it took 5 to lynch.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: mcmcsalot on January 07, 2019, 08:56:53 am
Umbrage and Joth have been on all three wagons, lalight and I were both on one off two.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: mcmcsalot on January 07, 2019, 09:08:47 am
Post count:

Joth - 100+
Datswan - 78
umbrage - 71
Lalight - 68
Jimmm - 64
Mcmc - 33
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: mcmcsalot on January 07, 2019, 09:21:56 am
So upon review of the wagons and some light reading lalight comes out as the scummiest to me. I do have who I think is scum between joth and umbrage in my head but Iím not sure hats helpuf to say yet. Wait never mind swan is dying tonight no reason to hide reads I think itís lalight and umbrage.

First off I think one scum was on wagon and one off yesterday. I think joth has been the towniest of lalight/umbrage/joth. Umbrage has flown quite under the radar the whole game. I also think joth is more likely to disagree with Dylan having fake claimed in the first place.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: jotheonah on January 07, 2019, 10:13:00 am
I am getting a town read on mcmcsalot.

Umbrage and LaLight could definitely both be scum. Theyíve been under the radar, especially LaLight. If I have time, Iíll go back and look for evidence of a Jim-LaLight-Umbrage team.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Jimmmmm on January 07, 2019, 10:20:26 am
If I have time, Iíll go back and look for evidence of a Jim-LaLight-Umbrage team.

Good luck.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: mcmcsalot on January 07, 2019, 11:55:06 am
I am getting a town read on mcmcsalot.

Umbrage and LaLight could definitely both be scum. Theyíve been under the radar, especially LaLight. If I have time, Iíll go back and look for evidence of a Jim-LaLight-Umbrage team.

? Dylan is he third scum. If you are looking for a jimm connection to want to look for Dylan/jimm/lalight or Dylan/jimm/umbrage.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: jotheonah on January 07, 2019, 02:06:06 pm
I am getting a town read on mcmcsalot.

Umbrage and LaLight could definitely both be scum. Theyíve been under the radar, especially LaLight. If I have time, Iíll go back and look for evidence of a Jim-LaLight-Umbrage team.

? Dylan is he third scum. If you are looking for a jimm connection to want to look for Dylan/jimm/lalight or Dylan/jimm/umbrage.

Right sorry. I worded that really weirdly. I meant a Jimm-LaLight or a Jimm-Umbrage. Sorry. A little jet lagged.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: jotheonah on January 07, 2019, 02:08:12 pm
Or umbrage-LaLight. Basically that I will look for the last two scum among those three.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on January 07, 2019, 02:08:21 pm
I am getting a town read on mcmcsalot.

Umbrage and LaLight could definitely both be scum. Theyíve been under the radar, especially LaLight. If I have time, Iíll go back and look for evidence of a Jim-LaLight-Umbrage team.

Just the kind of gamesolving you'd expect from town who just hammered scum in MYLO...

PPE: Whether it's a slip or not, my reasoning stands, Joth isn't looking at our interactions with Dylan, he's trying to decide who is scummier of LaLight and I based on our interactions with Jimmmm.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on January 07, 2019, 02:12:10 pm
We lynch Joth today, Swan dies tonight, we no lynch tomorrow and LYLO the day after.

Make sure you share faust's thoughts before the day ends, Swan.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on January 07, 2019, 02:18:53 pm
My expectation going into the day was that both Jimmmm and I are less likely to be scum from LaLight/momsalon's perspectives, so on the lead up to the no lynch scum would try to see which of Jimmm or I they could try to smear more and kill the other, leaving LYLO at mcmc/LaLight/ [Me or Jim].

Look at the play today, not only is Joth playing right into that, but more notably, LaLight isn't.

If Lalight is scum, then we lynch Joth, Swan dies at night, we no lynch, WLOG I die, then LYLO is Jim, scum!Lalight, mcmc, Jim/me less likely to be scum in that set so LaLight is best voting town!mcmc, who crossvotes and leaves Jim/me the decider.

if scum!Lalight started suspecting Jim or I, then whichever doesn't die he's more set to hold back and try to get us to crossvote.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on January 07, 2019, 02:21:04 pm
I'd vote Joth right now but I don't want to risk a quickhammer without Swan getting a chance to post faust's thoughts.

But I don't see my vote going anywhere else today.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: mcmcsalot on January 07, 2019, 04:48:54 pm
Well that was an extremely scummy set of posts from umbrage in a very dictating and confident tone that I donít think town has at this point in the game where we have played relatively poorly.

Though I can see the perspective of being on wagon with joth thus town!umbrage being confident of scum!joth. I think for sure at least one scum bussed dylan.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: DatSwan on January 07, 2019, 05:37:36 pm
We lynch Joth today, Swan dies tonight, we no lynch tomorrow and LYLO the day after.

Make sure you share faust's thoughts before the day ends, Swan.


With the exception of it being ďlynch someoneĒ today... this should absolutely be the plan.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: mcmcsalot on January 07, 2019, 07:02:03 pm
I agree tommorow will be a no lynch.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: jotheonah on January 07, 2019, 07:48:38 pm
We lynch Joth today, Swan dies tonight, we no lynch tomorrow and LYLO the day after.

Make sure you share faust's thoughts before the day ends, Swan.


With the exception of it being ďlynch someoneĒ today... this should absolutely be the plan.

Can we add another exception where we donít lynch me? Cause otherwise weíre going to lose the game and we wonít get a chance to do all that other stuff.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: jotheonah on January 07, 2019, 07:50:48 pm
Do people want me to go ahead and claim? I know Iím not at L-1 but I feel like I might as well be.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Jimmmmm on January 07, 2019, 08:47:12 pm
Do people want me to go ahead and claim? I know Iím not at L-1 but I feel like I might as well be.

I do.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: DatSwan on January 07, 2019, 08:50:37 pm
Do people want me to go ahead and claim? I know Iím not at L-1 but I feel like I might as well be.

I think mass claim at this point couldn't hurt. No one do it yet please - just general thoughts? before or against all?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Jimmmmm on January 07, 2019, 08:51:36 pm
I am getting a town read on mcmcsalot.

Umbrage and LaLight could definitely both be scum. Theyíve been under the radar, especially LaLight. If I have time, Iíll go back and look for evidence of a Jim-LaLight-Umbrage team.

Just the kind of gamesolving you'd expect from town who just hammered scum in MYLO...

Just to be clear, is this sarcasm?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on January 07, 2019, 09:42:22 pm
Yes it was sarcasm, yes I'm in favor of massclaim.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: jotheonah on January 07, 2019, 10:48:28 pm
Just the kind of gamesolving you'd expect from town who just hammered scum in MYLO...

You know, better than hammering town at MyLo. That hammer could have saved us the game. Maybe scum had some plan to save Dylan at L-1 and I ruined it with my strong pro-active vote.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: DatSwan on January 07, 2019, 11:19:25 pm
I actually really like the idea of a mass claim the more i think about it.
Are there any objections?
Also - assuming everyone is good with me setting order?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Jimmmmm on January 07, 2019, 11:20:36 pm
I actually really like the idea of a mass claim the more i think about it.
Are there any objections?
Also - assuming everyone is good with me setting order?

Do it.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: DatSwan on January 08, 2019, 01:02:45 am
K well that 50% on board so I am gonna a use the IC title a little bit here and say thatís good enough for me.

Also we will be doing it differently than usual. No claim order - Iíll let you know the next person to claim after the current at base player claims.

Joth - since you volunteered - you can go first.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: jotheonah on January 08, 2019, 10:00:27 am
I am a Jester. I'm definitely winning.










nah, JK I'm VT.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: DatSwan on January 08, 2019, 06:40:36 pm
McMc next
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: mcmcsalot on January 08, 2019, 07:01:20 pm
Vanilla townie here!
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: DatSwan on January 08, 2019, 07:34:37 pm
Jimmmm next
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Jimmmmm on January 08, 2019, 07:59:23 pm
VT.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: DatSwan on January 08, 2019, 08:33:28 pm
LL then Snow
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: LaLight on January 08, 2019, 11:51:18 pm
Vanilla Townie
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: DatSwan on January 09, 2019, 01:16:59 am
Snow up
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: DatSwan on January 09, 2019, 04:16:44 am
While we wait... anyone know fun joints in Australia? Traveling around here for 3 weeks and i do t know a lick about the place.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: DatSwan on January 09, 2019, 04:19:09 am
Also also friendly reminder as it seems a lot of us are kind of busy with life this game. The DL is on Sunday, and as we all know how the weekend can be... we should probably get to things quickly today.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Jimmmmm on January 09, 2019, 07:15:42 am
While we wait... anyone know fun joints in Australia? Traveling around here for 3 weeks and i do t know a lick about the place.

Whereabouts? What kind of fun joints?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on January 09, 2019, 11:11:12 am
I'm a 1-shot RB.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on January 09, 2019, 11:12:30 am
Also also friendly reminder as it seems a lot of us are kind of busy with life this game. The DL is on Sunday, and as we all know how the weekend can be... we should probably get to things quickly today.

I strongly agree with this, my vote is on Joth, but I want to hear any last useful faust thoughts (and Swan thoughts) before we vote.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: LaLight on January 09, 2019, 11:31:30 am
Won't you claim your action?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: mcmcsalot on January 09, 2019, 11:50:23 am
Okay so we are confirmed to be either:

(C/E)MBBTT - Mafia has Stongman and Roleblocker
(C/E)MBTTT - Mafia has 1-shot Strongman and Roleblocker

It means there is slightly more incentive to lynch lalight/joth/me. If we flip a full strongman umbrage is confirmed scum. However my guess is if umbrage is scum he is their 1-shot strongman, then itís a completely safe game claim.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on January 09, 2019, 12:08:16 pm
Won't you claim your action?

Why would I ever do that?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on January 09, 2019, 12:13:21 pm
Okay so we are confirmed to be either:

(C/E)MBBTT - Mafia has Stongman and Roleblocker
(C/E)MBTTT - Mafia has 1-shot Strongman and Roleblocker

It means there is slightly more incentive to lynch lalight/joth/me. If we flip a full strongman umbrage is confirmed scum. However my guess is if umbrage is scum he is their 1-shot strongman, then itís a completely safe game claim.

We're MMM(E/C)B
From your POV, if I'm lying the must be a T.
Eitehr way, scum have a full Roleblocker and a full Strongman, the only difference is whether or not they have a 1-shot BP on one of them.

So I guess the safe money is on Joth being the Strongman, mcmc is the Roleblocker and 1-shot BP.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on January 09, 2019, 12:14:30 pm
EBWOP


We're MMM(E/C)B{B}
From your POV, if I'm lying the {B} must be a T.
Eitehr way, scum have a full Roleblocker and a full Strongman, the only difference is whether or not they have a 1-shot BP on one of them.

So I guess the safe money is on Joth being the Strongman, mcmc is the Roleblocker and 1-shot BP.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: jotheonah on January 09, 2019, 02:02:35 pm
We have to be single M. If we were MMM there would be a universal backup.

Look Umbrage made a setup analysis mistake, it must be a scumslip and he must be scum, right Jim?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on January 09, 2019, 03:11:53 pm
Oh, now I feel dumb, yeah
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: mcmcsalot on January 09, 2019, 03:28:52 pm
Trying to analyze if umbrage makes this mistake while fake claiming something as scum is a big giant punch bowl of widow.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: mcmcsalot on January 09, 2019, 03:29:13 pm
Wifom*
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: mcmcsalot on January 09, 2019, 03:31:32 pm
All this is doing is pushing me more so to say we should be lynching lalight today no lynching tommorow and then there is a slight chance the decision is made easier.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: jotheonah on January 09, 2019, 05:34:01 pm
All this is doing is pushing me more so to say we should be lynching lalight today no lynching tommorow and then there is a slight chance the decision is made easier.

Why LaLight?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Jimmmmm on January 09, 2019, 06:22:09 pm
We have to be single M. If we were MMM there would be a universal backup.

Look Umbrage made a setup analysis mistake, it must be a scumslip and he must be scum, right Jim?

That's not the reaction  I had.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: DatSwan on January 09, 2019, 06:52:29 pm
Stop wasting time analyzing snow. Literally zero reason to lie in their spot. They were easily the towniest player alive except for me. If they were skum they could of just claimed VT and ridden it out.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: DatSwan on January 09, 2019, 06:54:25 pm
Day 1:
- First note is Joth leaving the Dylan wagon as soon as it really starts taking off with little reason.
- Next note is LL avoiding both Dylan and Swan wagon as they start to rise. Could be skum distancing.
- My wagon starts to pick up, McMc puts me at L-1 super out of no where. Which is both strange, but also very bold.
- After I claim, people do not go back to Dylan, but instead go over to Jimm.
     As we approach the end of day the wagons lay as follows:
silverspawn (1): ashersky
Jimmmmm (6): silverspawn, Galzria, Robz888, Dylan32, jotheonah, LaLight
Galzria (5): faust, DatSwan, Jimmmmm, UmbrageOfSnow, mcmcsalot

The unwillingness for Jimm to get hammered leaves us with 3 options:
1) All skum is already on Jim (Dylan, Joth, LL) - Unlikely
2) 2 Skum are on Jimm and the third doesn't want to triple it up. So, (Dylan, Joth) or (Dylan, LL) - Most likely IMO.
3) Jimm is skum. So, (Dylan, Jimm, X) - Plausible. But when we consider Dylan was on Jimm so long for L1 and combine it with the claim against Jimm... I am leaning against it at this point.

So at the end of Day 1, my thoughts are that there is skum within [Joth/LL] (but not both), and there is skum within [Snow/McMc].
The exception to these pools would be IF Jimm is skum, then the Day 1 VCA kind of makes it [Dylan/Jimm/Anyone] - which is why no Jimm today.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: DatSwan on January 09, 2019, 06:55:41 pm
Day 2 Stuff:
1. Snow starts the Dylan wagon - probably not snow/Dylan
2. LL wonít vote for Dylan, votes for McMc instead - Skummy, but points against McMc/LL team.
3. Joth goes for Snow - not partners
4. We have a quick succession of votes for Robz: UoS - joth - LaLight. Seems unlikely that there are 2 scum in here. That would put 1 scum in Jimmmmm/mcmc.
5. Counter wagon of Robz starts on Joth. Joth gets to (4) with [SS, Jimm, McMc, Robz] and then just dies. The fact Dylan is off both wagons strikes me as skummy. The above point would also suggest there is bussing here - so either McMc or Jimm.


So day 2 take away makes Joth and one of McMc/LL/Jimm skummy looking.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: DatSwan on January 09, 2019, 06:57:12 pm
Day 3 Stuff:
1. LL reallllly confident we are masons - could be conf!bias
2. LL, Snow, McMc all want no lynch - relevant bc the play here would be to iso Dylan/Jimm and also push for no lynch knowing they were gonna off me or faust anyways.
3. So if everyone ďput there money where there mouth isĒ we would be:
Jimmmmm (1): Dylan32
Dylan32 (2): Jimmmmm, faust, Swan
No Lynch (1): LaLight, Snow, McMc
Off (1): Joth
Hereís the thing- Jimm isnít leaving Dylan after the accusation. Dylan isnít leaving Jimm for the same reason. Faust and i had made it pretty clear we are not wanting a no lynch today. So the only way we were getting to no lynch would be by default, which would look skummy af. So, for this bit, it doesnít even matter if Jimm is skum or not... with this set up, skum is gonna bus.
Joth and snow are the two changers - and to previous points, it is t both of them.

Day 3 had me looking at [Joth/Snow], [McMc/LL] and then depending on how that pans out, i guess there is a world where it is one of those brackets picks plus Jimm.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: DatSwan on January 09, 2019, 07:08:07 pm
Team Summaries:
1. Likely that there is exactly one skum in [Joth/Snow]
2. Likely that there is exactly one skum in [LL/McMc]
3. Jimm could be skum if McMc is skum, and maybe Joth.. maybe.

TLDR; I think it is Dylan, Joth, and one of [McMc, LL, Jim] - in that order of likeliness.

Snow is my top town read, once i shake the paranoia away... and Joth was mutually both masons top SR... so that makes the Joth/Snow choice fairly straightforward for me.

Vote: Joth
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: jotheonah on January 09, 2019, 10:23:28 pm
Stop wasting time analyzing snow. Literally zero reason to lie in their spot. They were easily the towniest player alive except for me. If they were skum they could of just claimed VT and ridden it out.

Ah but maybe thatís why he did itó to make you IC him. As the last claimant in the mass claim and scum, he would have all the information (unless town lied). So he could pick almost any claim and know it was safe. At that point why not claim a role?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: jotheonah on January 09, 2019, 10:50:51 pm
I'm rereading now, and it seems like there's a lot of confirmation bias in Swan's case against me. Like, a lot. He's been scumreading me from day 1 and I've been attacking him a fair bit. The same goes for Jimmmm.

But now I'm not getting a fair shake because they've decided I'm scum so everything I do becomes evidence of my scumminess. So when I messed up analyzing the setup yesterday it was a scumslip, but when Snow did exactly the same thing today he was obv!town. When I try to make a case based on "scum would never do that" I'm told that I'm just WIFOMing, but IC DatSwan gets to say

Stop wasting time analyzing snow. Literally zero reason to lie in their spot. They were easily the towniest player alive except for me. If they were skum they could of just claimed VT and ridden it out.

... which is the same thing.

Swan decided I was scum a long time ago and now it's all he can see. Which would be fine if we weren't at MyLo. But now he is going to lead this town off a cliff as IC.

I don't know who the other two scum are -- I'm rereading right now looking for leads -- but I do know it's not me. And I would urge everyone to seriously consider that I might be town, just for a minute. I really don't want us to lose the game this way.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: jotheonah on January 09, 2019, 10:52:47 pm
To quote faust:

Usually the best way to tell if someone is town is if they really wind you up because they are wrong about everything.

I have been wrong about a lot of things this game. But I am town.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: jotheonah on January 09, 2019, 10:56:39 pm
Honestly, now that I'm thinking about it/rereading, scum has probably been keeping me alive on purpose because of my bad reads. They knew that it would be easy to convince the masonICs to lynch me.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: jotheonah on January 09, 2019, 11:10:26 pm
My day 1 endgame makes zero sense as scum. Scum would have been fine with a no lynch, right? But I pushed against a no lynch really hard, and then hammered someone who had a townread on. Assuming you don't think Jimmmmm was my partner, how does that hammer make sense? There's no downside to waiting. Either a Jimmmmm lynch (someone who had already expressed a strong scumread on me and another on Dylan and would have been a serious threat) happens, or a no lynch happens.

You know who's day 1 endgame does match what scum would do?

And then why kill ashersky? I definitely would have killed Jim if I were scum with Dylan, for the reasons I just laid out.

And then last night I hammered Dylan. Who was scum. That's more neutral because I can easily see scum bussing there, but I think they would do it a little more artfully then my hammer.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: jotheonah on January 09, 2019, 11:12:05 pm
Snow, on the other hand, does exactly what I would expect scum to do at the end of day 1 if Jim and Galz were both town. He goes to bed early and stays out of it. lalight is also nowhere to be found.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: DatSwan on January 09, 2019, 11:16:30 pm
Joth - What about McMc?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on January 09, 2019, 11:21:48 pm
Mcmc also did what scum would do.

No lynch would be horrible and I have to leave now until deadline. My problem with the case on jimm is heís playing like jimm plays. Ugh there is no non jimm or galz thing thatís happening. Im going to vote: galz so him and jimm are at l-2 and I trust people to get one through.

Note especially the "Ugh there is no non jimm or galz thing thatís happening".
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: DatSwan on January 09, 2019, 11:22:23 pm
I'm rereading now, and it seems like there's a lot of confirmation bias in Swan's case against me. Like, a lot. He's been scumreading me from day 1 and I've been attacking him a fair bit. The same goes for Jimmmm.

But now I'm not getting a fair shake because they've decided I'm scum so everything I do becomes evidence of my scumminess. So when I messed up analyzing the setup yesterday it was a scumslip, but when Snow did exactly the same thing today he was obv!town. When I try to make a case based on "scum would never do that" I'm told that I'm just WIFOMing, but IC DatSwan gets to say

Stop wasting time analyzing snow. Literally zero reason to lie in their spot. They were easily the towniest player alive except for me. If they were skum they could of just claimed VT and ridden it out.

... which is the same thing.

Swan decided I was scum a long time ago and now it's all he can see. Which would be fine if we weren't at MyLo. But now he is going to lead this town off a cliff as IC.

I don't know who the other two scum are -- I'm rereading right now looking for leads -- but I do know it's not me. And I would urge everyone to seriously consider that I might be town, just for a minute. I really don't want us to lose the game this way.

I did not decide you were skum a long time ago fwiw. You were my number s2 town read day 1 and a bit into day 2. I actually was hardset on Snow until end of day 2.

Also, i really really believe that the concept of lynching Jimm today is just counter productive (for previously stated reasons). And i also think it is way more likely we find skum outside of snow.... but just cuz i am IC doesnít mean you have to listen to me.... it still means you have to get 4 people to vote the same  person tho... so if i am not going snow or Jimm... and they ainít gonna vote for themselves... i would suggest you look elsewhere for a counter case.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: DatSwan on January 09, 2019, 11:25:10 pm
Mcmc also did what scum would do.

No lynch would be horrible and I have to leave now until deadline. My problem with the case on jimm is heís playing like jimm plays. Ugh there is no non jimm or galz thing thatís happening. Im going to vote: galz so him and jimm are at l-2 and I trust people to get one through.

Note especially the "Ugh there is no non jimm or galz thing thatís happening".

I noted this in summary as well. Agreed for skum points vs McMc and in a off world i guess Jimm as well
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on January 09, 2019, 11:31:15 pm
Now that I re-read it seems like Robz has sort of been going out of his way to buddy and sheep me all game. Which is probably why I've had such a town read on him. I just totally fell for it.

I was only a mediocre player, recordwise, before I left, and now I'm hella rusty, so I feel like town!Robz sheeping me left and right like this doesn't make a lot of sense. But maybe scum!robz figured since he was the one who brought me into the game it would be easy to buddy me and have a permanent town ally. There's evidence of him doing the same thing in subtler ways with Mcmc ("we IC'd each other"), faust ("day 1 pass"), and Galzria.

My memory is that part of Robz's meta is mixing up his scum strategies so that he doesn't have an easily readable meta. And I can see him saying "this game, I'm going to try buddying".

I sort of love this theory, but I also think maybe I'm working too hard to make up a narrative. But what the heck, let's try vote: Robz

This is another thing that I think is a pretty strong case for me being town. If I were scum and I had a townie following every vote I made, why on earth would I draw attention to it and start a wagon on that townie? I would have been working hard to keep Robz alive! Imagine how much better this day would be going for me if Jimmm and Swan were dead and Robz and Galz were alive. Yet I apparently hammered Galz, threw a good deal of fuel on Robz's lynch, and failed to NK Dylan or Swan despite having lots of opportunities.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: jotheonah on January 09, 2019, 11:32:03 pm
I'm rereading now, and it seems like there's a lot of confirmation bias in Swan's case against me. Like, a lot. He's been scumreading me from day 1 and I've been attacking him a fair bit. The same goes for Jimmmm.

But now I'm not getting a fair shake because they've decided I'm scum so everything I do becomes evidence of my scumminess. So when I messed up analyzing the setup yesterday it was a scumslip, but when Snow did exactly the same thing today he was obv!town. When I try to make a case based on "scum would never do that" I'm told that I'm just WIFOMing, but IC DatSwan gets to say

Stop wasting time analyzing snow. Literally zero reason to lie in their spot. They were easily the towniest player alive except for me. If they were skum they could of just claimed VT and ridden it out.

... which is the same thing.

Swan decided I was scum a long time ago and now it's all he can see. Which would be fine if we weren't at MyLo. But now he is going to lead this town off a cliff as IC.

I don't know who the other two scum are -- I'm rereading right now looking for leads -- but I do know it's not me. And I would urge everyone to seriously consider that I might be town, just for a minute. I really don't want us to lose the game this way.

I did not decide you were skum a long time ago fwiw. You were my number s2 town read day 1 and a bit into day 2. I actually was hardset on Snow until end of day 2.

Also, i really really believe that the concept of lynching Jimm today is just counter productive (for previously stated reasons). And i also think it is way more likely we find skum outside of snow.... but just cuz i am IC doesnít mean you have to listen to me.... it still means you have to get 4 people to vote the same  person tho... so if i am not going snow or Jimm... and they ainít gonna vote for themselves... i would suggest you look elsewhere for a counter case.

I'm working on it. I have another hour until my flight leaves...
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: jotheonah on January 09, 2019, 11:32:24 pm
I keep getting distracted by how obviously townie I am.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: jotheonah on January 09, 2019, 11:38:27 pm
I'll move back to vote: DatSwan for a few more hours, Galz. For you. I really need to go now for irl stuff, but I'll probably check back in around 7 or 8 pm forum time. Hopefully ... things of some kind will happen.

The total and complete lack of interest in Dylan has me itching to lynch Dylan more and more.

That said, I'd prefer DerSwan to Jimmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, so

Vote: DatSwan
L-2

Actually vote: datswan L-1

Claim time.

The last three votes on the Swan wagon day 1 are worth noting. Highly likely there's scum among them. Mcmc seems a little eager to get a claim. Snow says Dylan is scummy but then votes for Swan. My vote seems null, but then I'm me so I'm biased.

Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: jotheonah on January 09, 2019, 11:52:35 pm
Alright, I'm not as far along on this as I had hoped to be but I have to go to my gate.

halfway-ish through a reread, I actually agree with Swan that Snow seems pretty towny. Jim reads scummy to me, but I agree that he's a bad lynch today given everything.

So for me that leaves lalight and mcmc. And what I will say is, neither of them have given me a strong reason to believe they're town. Lalight has been pushing for a mcmc lynch all game, but its never been realistically on the table, which seems like a great place to be with your partner.

I think there's a reasonably good chance they're our scum team, and I think mcmc is currently the scummier read of the two, based on the above posts.

vote:mcmcsalot

Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: jotheonah on January 09, 2019, 11:54:22 pm
vote: mcmc

for formatting

I'll be back online in like 12 hours. Don't hammer me while I'm gone please.

I mean, ideally don't hammer me at all, but if you do don't let me miss it.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Jimmmmm on January 10, 2019, 12:55:36 am
mcmc, LL, UoS: What was your first instinct/reaction to Dylan's claim?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: DatSwan on January 10, 2019, 04:39:38 am
Guuuuyyyysssss
Giiiirrllllsssss
Peopppplleeeeeesssss

Where is everyone?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: LaLight on January 10, 2019, 04:48:41 am
mcmc, LL, UoS: What was your first instinct/reaction to Dylan's claim?

Well, my initial reaction was I believed it but then nothing really came together so I didn't in the end
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: LaLight on January 10, 2019, 04:49:16 am
when you'll see mcmc/joth team you'll be like "LaLight told us but we were not listening!"

I am all in for voting joth
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: LaLight on January 10, 2019, 04:50:39 am
vote: mcmc

for formatting

I'll be back online in like 12 hours. Don't hammer me while I'm gone please.

I mean, ideally don't hammer me at all, but if you do don't let me miss it.

this is just a last minute bussing
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: LaLight on January 10, 2019, 04:51:13 am
Won't you claim your action?

Why would I ever do that?

this can semiIC someone
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: DatSwan on January 10, 2019, 06:23:58 am
Won't you claim your action?

Why would I ever do that?

this can semiIC someone

Where are you this game?
Run that one back scenario style and think about how that doesnít make sense.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: DatSwan on January 10, 2019, 06:31:06 am
mcmc, LL, UoS: What was your first instinct/reaction to Dylan's claim?

Well, my initial reaction was I believed it but then nothing really came together so I didn't in the end

But all you did was vote no vote. You never expressed any interest in either Dylan or Jimm. And you were the only person sitting on the no lynch train all day
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: LaLight on January 10, 2019, 07:37:35 am
mcmc, LL, UoS: What was your first instinct/reaction to Dylan's claim?

Well, my initial reaction was I believed it but then nothing really came together so I didn't in the end

But all you did was vote no vote. You never expressed any interest in either Dylan or Jimm. And you were the only person sitting on the no lynch train all day

Yes. I would vote Dylan after a no lynch day. I see why you didn't want to no lynch, I had it in me that I didn't believe you 100%
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: LaLight on January 10, 2019, 07:39:23 am
vote: no lynch

I donít really believe Dylan, but i still would not put beyond faust and DS the gambit they would play. As much as i believe they are masons i would like to see the confirmation. Iíve been fooled like this all too many times.

This. I didn't really believe Dylan.

After that voting for him would be hammering and it wasn't late in the day. I was unavailable then, we had state holidays till 8th
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: mcmcsalot on January 10, 2019, 08:45:03 am
mcmc, LL, UoS: What was your first instinct/reaction to Dylan's claim?

Mine was that it was statistically extremely unlikely that Dylan and Faust and swan were all town, and that what made the most sense was Dylan being scum however no lynching and seeing faust flip mason would have made me more comfortable.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: LaLight on January 10, 2019, 08:48:04 am
mcmc, LL, UoS: What was your first instinct/reaction to Dylan's claim?

Mine was that it was statistically extremely unlikely that Dylan and Faust and swan were all town, and that what made the most sense was Dylan being scum however no lynching and seeing faust flip mason would have made me more comfortable.

Exactly
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: mcmcsalot on January 10, 2019, 08:52:59 am
Mcmc also did what scum would do.

No lynch would be horrible and I have to leave now until deadline. My problem with the case on jimm is heís playing like jimm plays. Ugh there is no non jimm or galz thing thatís happening. Im going to vote: galz so him and jimm are at l-2 and I trust people to get one through.

Note especially the "Ugh there is no non jimm or galz thing thatís happening".

I noted this in summary as well. Agreed for skum points vs McMc and in a off world i guess Jimm as well

I feel like you guys are over analyzing or not taking into account that Iím the one saying this. How in the world are you finding it scummy that I straight up said I had no real reads on jimm or galz, neither of them struck me as scummy and I was bummed there was no case on someone I had a scum read on to join. So I placed my vote where it could be used by my fellow townies who were still awake to keep their options open.

Check that time stamp itís almost midnight on a weekday, so Iím getting up in 6 hours to go to work and laying in bed realized crap I havenít checked in hours and never put a vote down. If I am scum I just let deadline pass without showing up or I commit to a lynch that I can back up with a fake read. As mafia I make ďfakeĒ scum reads on people all the time because itís easy to take something that can be construed as scummy from a town player and run with it. Iím rarely ever heady and noncommittal as scum. This is a straight up town player who hasnít had many reads trying to help.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: mcmcsalot on January 10, 2019, 12:56:20 pm
Won't you claim your action?

Why would I ever do that?

this can semiIC someone

Also it doesnít matter if scum knows if you still have the use or not. More info is better right now.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on January 10, 2019, 02:21:26 pm
Won't you claim your action?

Why would I ever do that?

this can semiIC someone

Also it doesnít matter if scum knows if you still have the use or not. More info is better right now.

No comment.

Vote: Joth
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on January 10, 2019, 02:56:18 pm
mcmc, LL, UoS: What was your first instinct/reaction to Dylan's claim?

I was about to vote him and then he basically claimed scum.

It did remove my doubts about Faust-Swan at least.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: EFHW on January 10, 2019, 05:03:20 pm
Vote Count 4.1

jotheonah (2): DatSwan, UmbrageOfSnow
mcmcsalot (1): jotheonah

Not voting (3): LaLight, mcmcsalot, Jimmmmm

With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

D4 ends on Sunday 13th January at 23.00 Czech time (5pm forum time).

Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: DatSwan on January 11, 2019, 12:49:44 am
Won't you claim your action?

Why would I ever do that?

this can semiIC someone

Also it doesnít matter if scum knows if you still have the use or not. More info is better right now.

A kill went off every night and we have no vig so there is neither and upside or a downside.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: DatSwan on January 11, 2019, 12:50:34 am
No one would be iced from a potential Snow result - they could of just been skum that didnít shoot.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: DatSwan on January 11, 2019, 01:33:56 am
LL McMc and Jimm need to give some input plz
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: LaLight on January 11, 2019, 02:34:17 am
vote: joth L-1 is my input
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Jimmmmm on January 11, 2019, 06:43:52 am
LL McMc and Jimm need to give some input plz

I don't really see a scenario in which I would agree to keep joth alive to the end. Primarily due to the way he responded to Dylan's claim. Scum obviously discussed the claim the night before and expected it to work.

I really should do my due diligence and give him a proper reread. Maybe I'll get time before deadline.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: DatSwan on January 11, 2019, 06:45:28 am
unvote
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: DatSwan on January 11, 2019, 06:47:46 am
LL McMc and Jimm need to give some input plz

I don't really see a scenario in which I would agree to keep joth alive to the end. Primarily due to the way he responded to Dylan's claim. Scum obviously discussed the claim the night before and expected it to work.

I really should do my due diligence and give him a proper reread. Maybe I'll get time before deadline.

do your due diligence now. Now that you have posted either Joth is skum or the skum is Dylan - LL - MCMC .... which is (knock on wood) essentially impossible).
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: DatSwan on January 11, 2019, 06:53:08 am
nvm IDK where I was going with that...


Vote: Joth
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Jimmmmm on January 11, 2019, 07:01:58 am
either Joth is skum or the skum is Dylan - LL - MCMC .... which is (knock on wood) essentially impossible).

Why?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: DatSwan on January 11, 2019, 07:10:01 am
either Joth is skum or the skum is Dylan - LL - MCMC .... which is (knock on wood) essentially impossible).

Why?

Because either skum is being a jizz nugget and slow rolling us (unlikely, but would mean I am wrong)... or because since mcmc posted LL put Joth at L-1. Since then you have posted.. assuming you are a non jizz nugget skum, then Joth cannot be town if you are skum. The only other person left to cast a vote is MCMC.

TLDR; If you are town and not skum fucking around with us... then either Joth is Skum or the team is Dylan - LL - MCMC (because it sure af isn't Snow if Joth is skum)
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Jimmmmm on January 11, 2019, 07:24:47 am
Uh I guess.

I'm happy to just hammer if you want.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: mcmcsalot on January 11, 2019, 07:26:48 am
Iím here. And will give input in the next couple hours
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: DatSwan on January 11, 2019, 08:33:10 am
Uh I guess.

I'm happy to just hammer if you want.

please point out the flaws in logic
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: DatSwan on January 11, 2019, 08:34:08 am
Iím here. And will give input in the next couple hours

kinda holding you to this
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: DatSwan on January 11, 2019, 08:42:29 am
Uh I guess.

I'm happy to just hammer if you want.

I mean yeah? I don't see anyone else getting lynched today.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: Jimmmmm on January 11, 2019, 08:49:03 am
Uh I guess.

I'm happy to just hammer if you want.

please point out the flaws in logic

Just finding you hard to follow, but I think you're right. I'll let mcmc say what he wants to before hammering.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: mcmcsalot on January 11, 2019, 09:25:41 am
So here is my concern. I know Iím town, I know swan is town, Iím operating under the assumption jimm is town (if not amazing gambit by Dylan mvp). So either one of umbrage/lalight are bussing joth or they are hoping to god jimm or me hammers this for the win.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: mcmcsalot on January 11, 2019, 09:38:36 am
Woah I just reread lalight he has literally been pushing for my lynch the entire game.

Rereading umbrage now but I donít think lalight and umbrage are partners and I honk lalight looks more like a bussing partner than umbrage.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: mcmcsalot on January 11, 2019, 09:43:10 am
Oh hell yea read umbrageís opening half of this game heís like here a non partner post with lalight, hereís one with joth,  ow let me go ahead and strongly defend and early case amidst pressure on Dylan.

I never get to do this so vote: joth

Letís go!
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: jotheonah on January 11, 2019, 10:28:32 am
Well no one can say I didn't try. I argued my best, but you all chose to lynch me anyway.

Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: jotheonah on January 11, 2019, 10:29:38 am
and you chose correctly! Good job town, good luck partner, thank you everyone for making my triumphant return to mafia a real good time.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: mcmcsalot on January 11, 2019, 11:04:51 am
Awesome, lalight if you are town please reread me and some of my other scum games. If you are town we are definitely going to be in the end of the game together and will need to not lynch each other, I will be doing the same.

Also remember everyone tommorow is a no lynch pending we donít wake up to a blocked night kill or swan still in the game.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: EFHW on January 11, 2019, 11:12:32 am
I'm sure Space will be by sometime soon, so twilight for now. I'll keep checking back and will end the day at 4 pm FT if they haven't.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: EFHW on January 11, 2019, 03:38:30 pm
Final Day 4 Vote Count

jotheonah (4): UmbrageOfSnow, LaLight, DatSwan, mcmcsalot
mcmcsalot (1): jotheonah

Not voting (1): Jimmmmm

With 6 alive, it took 4 to lynch.

jotheonah was Blokovač RolŪ of team ämejdi - the Scum Roleblocker.

Day 5 start and night action deadline to be announced

THREAD LOCKED

Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 4)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on January 11, 2019, 04:11:51 pm
Vote Count 4.final

mcmcsalot (1): jotheonah
jotheonah (4): UmbrageOfSnow, LaLight, DatSwan, mcmcsalot
Not Voting (1): Jimmmmm

With 6 alive, it took 4 to lynch.

jotheonah was Blokovač RolŪ of team ämejdi (Scum Roleblocker).


Czech fact: Our little Vesnice is in the Czech Republic, a central European country of around 11 million people. The country has existed since 1st January 1993, when the former country of Czechoslovakia split in two, the other part becoming the country of Slovakia, a country directly to the east of the Czech Republic, with roughly half the population.

N4 starts now and ends at 9pm Czech time (3pm forum time) on Sunday 13th January. Night actions due 1 hour before this.

PPE EFHW :-) Sorry -- I'm still at work!
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on January 13, 2019, 03:49:41 pm
Dobrť večer! (Good Evening)

DatSwan was killed in the night. He was a ZednŠř of team Vesničanť, a Mason.

Vote Count 5.0

Not voting (4):
LaLight, mcmcsalot, Jimmmmm, UmbrageOfSnow

With 4 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.

D5 starts now and ends on Sunday 20th January at 22.00 Czech time (4pm forum time).

Thread Unlocked.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: LaLight on January 13, 2019, 03:50:58 pm
vote: no lynch
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on January 13, 2019, 03:58:32 pm
Vote: No Lynch
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: Jimmmmm on January 13, 2019, 05:48:37 pm
Vote: No Lynch
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 5)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on January 13, 2019, 06:04:37 pm
Vote Count 5.final

No Lynch (3): LaLight, UmbrageOfSnow, Jimmmmm
Not Voting (1): mcmcsalot

With 4 alive, it took 3 to no-lynch.

N5 starts now and ends at 23.00pm Czech time (17.00pm forum time) on Monday 14th January. Night actions are due 1 hour before this.

Thread Locked

Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 6)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on January 14, 2019, 06:20:18 pm
Dobrť večer! (Good Evening)

mcmcsalot was killed in the night. He was a prostż vesničan of team Vesničanť, a vanilla townie.

Czech fact:
Czech and Slovak are very similar languages -- practically two different dialects. However, while the Slovak names for months (http://"http://www.slovak.com/language/calendar/months/months.html") are pretty instantly recognisable to an English speaker, the same cannot generally be said of the Czech names for months (http://"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czech_months").

Vote Count 6.0

Not voting (3):
LaLight, Jimmmmm, UmbrageOfSnow

With 3 alive, it takes 2 to lynch.

D6 starts now and ends on Monday 21st January at 22.00 Czech time (4pm forum time).

Thread Unlocked.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 6)
Post by: Jimmmmm on January 14, 2019, 09:50:44 pm
UoS, what do you think of LaLight?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 6)
Post by: LaLight on January 15, 2019, 06:25:46 am
oh i missed the start of the day
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 6)
Post by: LaLight on January 15, 2019, 06:25:52 am
oh
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 1)
Post by: LaLight on January 15, 2019, 06:48:37 am
Ok let's try to see the pattern. I will look at the interactions of living people and known scums by vote counts.

Vote Count 1.1

ashersky (1): Jimmmmm
mcmcsalot (1): LaLight
Jimmmmm (2): faust, jotheonah
jotheonah (1): silverspawn
silverspawn (2): UmbrageOfSnow, Robz888
Robz888 (1): Galzria

Not Voting (4): mcmcsalot, DatSwan, ashersky, Dylan32

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
D1 ends at 11am Czech time (5am Forum Time) on Thursday 20th December.


Joth voted for Jimmmmm. Between 1.1 and 1.2 joth never moved but told that Dylan and DatSwan are scummy. Maybe an early busm given that he wanted to vote for Dylan as well.

Vote Count 1.2

ashersky (1): Jimmmmm
mcmcsalot (1): LaLight
jotheonah (1): silverspawn
Jimmmmm (1): jotheonah
Robz888 (1): Galzria
silverspawn (1): Robz888
DatSwan (2): mcmcsalot, Dylan32
faust (1): ashersky
Dylan32 (2): faust, UmbrageOfSnow
Not Voting (1): DatSwan

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
D1 ends at 11am Czech time (5am Forum Time) on Thursday 20th December.


Also at 1.2 UoS voted for Dylan for no reason at that point. After that UoS will start his crusade.

Vote Count 1.3

ashersky (1): Jimmmmm
mcmcsalot (1): LaLight
Robz888 (1): Galzria
DatSwan (3): mcmcsalot, Dylan32, jotheonah
faust (1): ashersky
Dylan32 (4): faust, UmbrageOfSnow, silverspawn, Robz888

Not Voting (1): DatSwan

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
D1 ends at 11am Czech time (5am Forum Time) on Thursday 20th December.

joth moved from Jimmmmm to DatSwan, wagon on Dylan grows.

Vote Count 1.4

ashersky (1): Jimmmmm
mcmcsalot (2): Lalight, silverspawn
Robz888 (1): Galzria
DatSwan (2): Dylan32, jotheonah
Dylan32 (3): faust, UmbrageOfSnow, Robz888
silverspawn (2): ashersky, mcmcsalot

Not Voting (1): DatSwan

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
D1 ends at 11am Czech time (5am Forum Time) on Thursday 20th December.



Notably Dylan and Joth are on DatSwan both. Jimmmmm never moves, UoS also is still on Dylan.

Vote Count 1.5

ashersky (1): Jimmmmm
mcmcsalot (2): Lalight, faust
Robz888 (1): Galzria
DatSwan (1): Dylan32
Dylan32 (1): UmbrageOfSnow
silverspawn (4): ashersky, mcmcsalot, jotheonah, Robz888
Jimmmmm (1): silverspawn

Not Voting (1): DatSwan

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
D1 ends at 11am Czech time (5am Forum Time) on Thursday 20th December.

Galzria has been prodded


UoS stays on Jimmmmm, this is quite a convenient position to hold. Others didn't change.

Vote Count 1.6

mcmcsalot (1): Lalight
DatSwan (1): Dylan32
Dylan32 (2): UmbrageOfSnow, Jimmmmm
silverspawn (3): ashersky, mcmcsalot, Robz888
Jimmmmm (4): silverspawn, DatSwan, Galzria, jotheonah
Galzria (1): faust

Not Voting (0):

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
D1 ends at 11am Czech time (5am Forum Time) on Thursday 20th December. That's in ~17 hours.


Jimmmmm moves onto Dylan without explanation, 17 hours before the deadline. WIFOM?

Vote Count 1.7

DatSwan (4): Dylan32, Galzria, jotheonah, Robz888
Dylan32 (2): UmbrageOfSnow, Jimmmmm
silverspawn (2): ashersky, mcmcsalot
mcmcsalot (1): LaLight
Jimmmmm (1): silverspawn
Galzria (2): faust, DatSwan

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
D1 ends at 11am Czech time (5am Forum Time) on Thursday 20th December. That's in a little under 13.5 hours.

Everything stays the same, Dylan and Joth are still on the same wagon.

Vote Count 1.8

DatSwan (4): Dylan32, jotheonah, UmbrageOfSnow, mcmcsalot
silverspawn (1): ashersky
mcmcsalot (1): LaLight
Jimmmmm (3): silverspawn, Galzria, Robz888
Galzria (3): faust, DatSwan, Jimmmmm

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
D1 ends at 11am Czech time (5am Forum Time) on Thursday 20th December. That's in ~9.5 hours.


9,5 hrs before the deadline, Dylan's wagon disappeared. Jimmmmm joined Galzria's, UoS Ė DatSwan's. I doubt UoS would join the wagon with Dylan and Joth on it.


Vote Count 1.9

silverspawn (1): ashersky
mcmcsalot (1): LaLight
Jimmmmm (5): silverspawn, Galzria, Robz888, Dylan, jotheonah
Galzria (4): faust, DatSwan, Jimmmmm, UmbrageofSnow

Not voting (1): mcmsalot

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
D1 ends at 11am Czech time (5am Forum Time) on Thursday 20th December. That's in ~7 hours. FYI, his probably the last vc until 4 a.m.


7 hrs before. Both Jimmmmm and UoS are on Galzria, both Dylan and Joth moved to Jimmmmm.

Vote Count 1.10

silverspawn (1): ashersky
Jimmmmm (6): silverspawn, Galzria, Robz888, Dylan32, jotheonah, LaLight
Galzria (5): faust, DatSwan, Jimmmmm, UmbrageOfSnow, mcmcsalot

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
D1 ends in ~17 minutes.


17 minutes.

Jimmmmm and UoS still on Galzria, I moved to Jimmmmm. Note that if you think I am scum, I would join the wagon with both Dylan and Joth which is a dumb thing to do if you're scum. I think we should've lynched Jimmmmm then, but whatever.

Vote Count 1.final

silverspawn (1): ashersky
Galzria (7): faust, DatSwan, Jimmmmm, UmbrageOfSnow, mcmcsalot, silverspawn, jotheonah
Jimmmmm (4): Galzria, Robz888, Dylan32, LaLight

With 12 alive, it tool 7 to lynch.


Finally Joth moved to Galz, Dylan stayed. Weird, given that they both were on the same wagon all the Day 1. But given that one of you is scum, that's logical: Dylan didn't want to be on the same wagon as his partners.

This concludes D1, please don't vote until I look at all of them
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: LaLight on January 15, 2019, 07:03:04 am
Vote Count 2.1

mcmcsalot (1): LaLight
silverspawn (1): faust
DatSwan (1): jotheonah
UmbrageOfSnow (1): DatSwan
Not Voting (6): Robz888, mcmcsalot, Jimmmmm, UmbrageOfSnow, Dylan32, silverspawn

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
D2 ends on Saturday 29th December at 7pm Czech time (1pm forum time).


Nothing really notable here.

Then this happened:

Given that Jimmmmm never lynched both as soon as I can see

I'm not entirely sure what you mean, but I would have and still would lynch Dylan.

Vote: Dylan

And this last bunch of posts from LaLight seems pretty town to me, a lot of weird assumed guilt looking for reasons and bizarre logical leaps, I'm too busy to check but that's basically what he does as town when reevaluating things isn't it?

Very little time today and tomorrow, should be able to post at some point tomorrow though so not VLA.

Veselť VŠnoce (Merry Christmas!)

Vote Count 2.2


mcmcsalot (1): LaLight
silverspawn (1): faust
UmbrageOfSnow (1): DatSwan
Dylan32 (2): Jimmmmm, UmbrageOfSnow
Not Voting (5): Robz888, mcmcsalot, Dylan32, silverspawn, jotheonah

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
D2 ends on Saturday 29th December at 7pm Czech time (1pm forum time).


This is again a safe place for both of you, trying to open a wagon on Dylan. I wonder what would happen if Dylan would rise up to L-1. But that didn't happen.

Then this:

I don't have much time tonight but I reread Dylan and my reasons for voting for him are really only from very early in the game. I will Unvote for now and hopefully have time to look at joth tomorrow.

and as far as I see, Jimmmmm never answered this one:

I don't have much time tonight but I reread Dylan and my reasons for voting for him are really only from very early in the game. I will Unvote for now and hopefully have time to look at joth tomorrow.

So why did you revote him at the start of today then?

So at 2.3 we're here:

Vote Count 2.3

silverspawn (2): faust, LaLight
UmbrageOfSnow (1): DatSwan
Dylan32 (1): UmbrageOfSnow
Not Voting (6): Robz888, mcmcsalot, Dylan32, silverspawn, jotheonah, Jimmmmm

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
D2 ends on Saturday 29th December at 7pm Czech time (1pm forum time).

The deadline is less than 25 hours from now.


Vote Count 2.4

UmbrageOfSnow (3): DatSwan, jotheonah, Robz888
Dylan32 (1): UmbrageOfSnow
silverspawn (1): LaLight
Robz888 (1): faust
Not Voting (4): mcmcsalot, Dylan32, silverspawn, Jimmmmm

D2 ends at 23:59 Czech time (5.59pm Forum Time) on Sunday 30th December. This is in just over 32 hours' time.

Joth voted for UoS, UoS stays on Dylan.

Vote Count 2.5

UmbrageOfSnow (3): DatSwan, Robz888, Dylan32
Robz888 (4): faust, UmbrageOfSnow, jotheonah, LaLight
jotheonah (3): silverspawn, Jimmmmm, mcmcsalot

Not Voting (0)

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. D2 ends at 23:59 Czech time (5.59pm Forum Time) on Sunday 30th December. This is in just under 6.5 hours' time.

I'm going back and forth a bit on Dylan. Otherwise I agree with most of what silver says.

Vote: joth

Dylan voted for UoS, joth, UoS and me for Robz, Jimmmmm for joth with "Going back and forth on Dylan". In the end

Vote Count 2.final

UmbrageOfSnow (1): DatSwan
Robz888 (6): faust, UmbrageOfSnow, jotheonah, LaLight, silverspawn, Dylan32
jotheonah (2): Jimmmmm, mcmcsalot
faust (1): Robz888

With 10 alive, it tooks 6 to lynch.

Robz was a prostż vesničan of team Vesničanť.


Czech fact: the word for the colour green is zelenż, or zelenŠ (or a bunch of other possible endings depending on grammatical gender, case and number).

N2 starts now and ends at 23.59 Czech time on Monday 1st January 2019. Action deadline is 1 hour before that.

Me, UoS, Dylan and Joth were all on the same wagon.

This concludes D2
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 6)
Post by: LaLight on January 15, 2019, 07:09:43 am
In the start of D3 Dyan claimed and there was an immediate reaction from Jimmmmm:

Ok, it may not be time for a massclaim, but it's time for me to claim.

I'm the UB. Inherited Galz's cop shot, checked Jimmmmm last night: guilty.

Vote: Jimmmmm


This is why I was so skeptical of the mason claim until I realized that faust actually was able to explain the EoD1 consistently with the claim.

This is a lie.

Vote: Dylan

Vote Count 3.1

Jimmmmm (1): Dylan32
Dylan32 (2): Jimmmmm, faust
No Lynch (1): LaLight
Not Voting (4): mcmcsalot, DatSwan, UmbrageOfSnow, jotheonah

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.
D3 ends on Tuesday 8th January at 23.59 Czech time (17.59 forum time).


I thought about no lynching being the best option then, nothing else interesting in this VC

Vote Count 3.final

Jimmmmm (1): Dylan32
Dylan32 (5): Jimmmmm, faust, DatSwan, UmbrageOfSnow, jotheonah
No Lynch (1): LaLight
Not Voting (1): mcmcsalot

With 8 alive, it took 5 to lynch.

Dylan was a Kmotr of team ämejdi (Scum Godfather).


Czech phrase almost verbatim from one of today's Duolingo lessons: "Umřel před pěti minutami" -> "He died five minutes ago".

N3 starts now and ends at 23.00 Czech time (5pm forum time) on Sunday 6th January 2019. Action deadline is 1 hour before that.

And then the final one. Joth hammered, Jimmmmm started the wagon.

At this point I am pretty sure it's Jimmmmm but will try to get the bias away
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: LaLight on January 15, 2019, 07:12:57 am
Vote Count 4.1

jotheonah (2): DatSwan, UmbrageOfSnow
mcmcsalot (1): jotheonah

Not voting (3): LaLight, mcmcsalot, Jimmmmm

With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

D4 ends on Sunday 13th January at 23.00 Czech time (5pm forum time).


Wagon on Joth started.

And ended:

Final Day 4 Vote Count

jotheonah (4): UmbrageOfSnow, LaLight, DatSwan, mcmcsalot
mcmcsalot (1): jotheonah

Not voting (1): Jimmmmm

With 6 alive, it took 4 to lynch.

jotheonah was Blokovač RolŪ of team ämejdi - the Scum Roleblocker.

Day 5 start and night action deadline to be announced

THREAD LOCKED


Jimmmmm doesn't vote but expresses that he wants to hammer.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 6)
Post by: LaLight on January 15, 2019, 07:14:46 am
all in all, looking especially at D2, I am pretty set on Jimmmmm being scum. Mad propz to UoS if you are one.

vote: Jimmmmm
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 6)
Post by: Jimmmmm on January 15, 2019, 07:39:18 am
all in all, looking especially at D2, I am pretty set on Jimmmmm being scum. Mad propz to UoS if you are one.

vote: Jimmmmm

Well that was a quick LyLo vote.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 6)
Post by: Jimmmmm on January 15, 2019, 07:42:47 am
I'm not at all sure from Today's posts what you're basing your vote on.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 6)
Post by: Jimmmmm on January 15, 2019, 07:44:21 am
If it's based on D2, you think I'm scum for voting for one scum, then changing to vote for another?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 6)
Post by: LaLight on January 15, 2019, 07:55:19 am
If it's based on D2, you think I'm scum for voting for one scum, then changing to vote for another?

Actually, yes.

Also all your actions make more sense if you're scum than UoS' ones. And also I wouldn't put it past you to come up with a Dylan's sacrifice plan, I know you're an awesome scum player
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 6)
Post by: LaLight on January 15, 2019, 07:57:36 am
all in all, looking especially at D2, I am pretty set on Jimmmmm being scum. Mad propz to UoS if you are one.

vote: Jimmmmm

Well that was a quick LyLo vote.

I want to stick to my guns.

I have no basic idea how mcmc's kill would be profitable to scum. The only possible explanation is that you are one. If UoS would be one, he would kill you and let me and mcmc vote for each other to win. You, on the other hand, after dealing with Dylan came up townie on a first level and might've had a plan so you and UoS who were townreading each other would just simply mislynch me and game over you're MVP. I am still afraid that's what would happen
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 6)
Post by: Jimmmmm on January 15, 2019, 08:09:54 am
all in all, looking especially at D2, I am pretty set on Jimmmmm being scum. Mad propz to UoS if you are one.

vote: Jimmmmm

Well that was a quick LyLo vote.

I want to stick to my guns.

I have no basic idea how mcmc's kill would be profitable to scum. The only possible explanation is that you are one. If UoS would be one, he would kill you and let me and mcmc vote for each other to win. You, on the other hand, after dealing with Dylan came up townie on a first level and might've had a plan so you and UoS who were townreading each other would just simply mislynch me and game over you're MVP. I am still afraid that's what would happen

Honestly I thought it was likely that UoS killed mcmc because I had labelled you as a likely third scum.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 6)
Post by: Jimmmmm on January 15, 2019, 08:11:49 am
So... there's no way you'll unvote and give us a chance at a proper Day before UoS shows up?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 6)
Post by: LaLight on January 15, 2019, 08:12:08 am
unvote
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 6)
Post by: Jimmmmm on January 15, 2019, 08:12:26 am
AMA
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 6)
Post by: LaLight on January 15, 2019, 08:12:32 am
all in all, looking especially at D2, I am pretty set on Jimmmmm being scum. Mad propz to UoS if you are one.

vote: Jimmmmm

Well that was a quick LyLo vote.

I want to stick to my guns.

I have no basic idea how mcmc's kill would be profitable to scum. The only possible explanation is that you are one. If UoS would be one, he would kill you and let me and mcmc vote for each other to win. You, on the other hand, after dealing with Dylan came up townie on a first level and might've had a plan so you and UoS who were townreading each other would just simply mislynch me and game over you're MVP. I am still afraid that's what would happen

Honestly I thought it was likely that UoS killed mcmc because I had labelled you as a likely third scum.

I don't understand your reasoning, can you elaborate?
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 6)
Post by: LaLight on January 15, 2019, 08:13:18 am
ah sorry, got it
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 6)
Post by: LaLight on January 15, 2019, 08:14:42 am
why did you label me as a third scum by the way? I don't think I ever saw a reasoning for it
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 6)
Post by: Jimmmmm on January 15, 2019, 08:15:49 am
all in all, looking especially at D2, I am pretty set on Jimmmmm being scum. Mad propz to UoS if you are one.

vote: Jimmmmm

Well that was a quick LyLo vote.

I want to stick to my guns.

I have no basic idea how mcmc's kill would be profitable to scum. The only possible explanation is that you are one. If UoS would be one, he would kill you and let me and mcmc vote for each other to win. You, on the other hand, after dealing with Dylan came up townie on a first level and might've had a plan so you and UoS who were townreading each other would just simply mislynch me and game over you're MVP. I am still afraid that's what would happen

Honestly I thought it was likely that UoS killed mcmc because I had labelled you as a likely third scum.

I don't understand your reasoning, can you elaborate?

When asked for my most likely scum team (after Dylan's claim, but I think before his lynch), I said Dylan and joth, and named you as a likely third. I was expecting to be killed last Night, and my first instinct for the reason behind the mcmc kill is that UoS thought I would be likely to vote for you.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 6)
Post by: Jimmmmm on January 15, 2019, 08:17:44 am
why did you label me as a third scum by the way? I don't think I ever saw a reasoning for it

To be perfectly honest, I can't remember. I was planning to re-read you both from scratch Today before voting. Hang on, I'll have a look.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 6)
Post by: Jimmmmm on January 15, 2019, 08:18:23 am
Also, my first post Today was hoping to bait UoS into being too eager to vote for you.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 6)
Post by: LaLight on January 15, 2019, 08:23:08 am
Also, my first post Today was hoping to bait UoS into being too eager to vote for you.

so you could win, right?

Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 6)
Post by: Jimmmmm on January 15, 2019, 08:24:06 am
Also, my first post Today was hoping to bait UoS into being too eager to vote for you.

so you could win, right?

To try to test my theory about the mcmc kill.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 6)
Post by: LaLight on January 15, 2019, 08:26:31 am
the more I think that you are trying to divert my attention from you the more I think you are scum, actually. But I will wait just in case.

given that you really was sure I am a third scum, mcmc's kill is reasonable from UoS as well, But he still has the whole game of being townie. But ok, I'll wait.
Title: Re: M120: Czech Mafia (Day 2)
Post by: Jimmmmm on January 15, 2019, 08:29:46 am
I think it's really stupid for scum to try to set up faust and Swan and it works for us in a really good way, PoE is strong with this o