Dominion Strategy Forum

Miscellaneous => Forum Games => Mafia Game Threads => Topic started by: iguanaiguana on August 18, 2018, 11:19:45 am

Title: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Game Over, Town Wins!)
Post by: iguanaiguana on August 18, 2018, 11:19:45 am
Welcome to M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia!

This game will be Sanity Profanity (https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Sanity_Profanity), an open setup for 13 players from MafiaWiki. The flavor will be based on cities and towns of the Pacific Northwest. Setup specific information in the next post.

mod: Iguana Iguana

tags:

Playerlist:

1. Lalight
2. Galzria?
3. Awaclus
4. e
5. McMcsalot
6. Robz888
7. Joseph2302
8. Hydrad
9. Dsell
10. gkrieg13
11. DatSwan
12. faust
13. pingpongsam

The Rules:

The Golden Rule:
This is a game. Everyone who signs up to play must be considerate of each other, never get personal, and focus on having fun. Once the game starts, having signed up is a commitment: inactivity is just as inconsiderate as rude comments.

The Standard Rules:
1. No communication between players outside of the game thread or shared QTs at any time. This includes passing references, jokes, or cases in other games or threads, whether in context or not.
2. If the game thread is locked, do not post. If you are unsure if something is locked, ask the mod by PM.
3. Direct or verbatim quoting of mod-provided information is strictly forbidden. Paraphrasing is okay.
4. Actions with instructions that do not specify a game state will be resolved in the order they are received.
5. All night actions must be submitted within 36 hours of day ending.
6. Players must post once every 24 hours.
7. Do not edit or delete posts, ever. If you need to clarify or correct something, post again.
8. Invisible text, font size less than 10, and spoiler tags are not allowed.
9. Cryptography is not allowed.
10. The time between a lynch being reached and a flip being provided is called twilight. All players may continue posting during this time, including the lynched player.
11. Dead players may not post in thread or QT, except their Role QT. A lynched player is not "dead" until a flip has been provided.
12. Personal multimedia, such as video or audio recordings, are not allowed in the game thread.

The Voting Rules:
1. Votes should be in this format: Vote: Playername. Unambigiuous nicknames are acceptable, or any string that uniquely identifies a user. Note that the point of voting is, in fact, unambiguity, and attempting to make it unclear to other players (or, of course, mods) which user you are voting for is very ill-advised.
2. Unvotes should be in this format: Unvote: Playername. A simple Unvote may not be caught by the mod due to the mod's method of counting votes.
3. Unvotes are not required if changing your vote from one player to another.
4. You may vote: no lynch.
5. Lynches occur when a simple majority (rounded up) of living players is reached. Once reached, a lynch cannot be undone.
6. The first time that a day ends without reaching a majority lynch, the player with the most votes will be lynched. After this happens once, if a majority lynch is not reached by the Day's deadline, no lynch occurs.

The Rest:
1. Bold, teal text is reserved for the mod. Players may not use it.
2. If you have an issue or problem with the game, please PM the Mod. Do not post complaints in the game thread.
3. Mods make mistakes - please point them out gently. If they can be corrected, they will. If irreversible, they will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
4. If a mod error disadvantages one faction greatly, the game may be called off.
5. Ask all questions and make all requests directly to the Mod via PM. Questions deemed as "universal" (defined as questions for which the answers should be available to all players) will be requested to be re-posted in the Game Thread and answered there.
6. One prod will be issued after 24 hours without posting in the game thread. Players are subject to replacement or modkill after two prods, based on the mod's discretion.
7. All rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity, as determined by the mod.
8. Each player will receive their own QT, regardless of role. Don't quote from it.
9. If the game goes on for 3 days and 3 nights without a lynch or nightkill, town wins.


Deadlines:
7-day Days, 2-day Nights
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia
Post by: iguanaiguana on August 18, 2018, 11:20:11 am
Flavor:

The mafia faction will be called "city/cities", and the town faction will be called "town/towns" The city framers will be Seattle and Portland. The city traitor will be San Francisco. Town cops will be large towns (really they are small cities but whatever) in the Pacific Northwest region of the United States, including these six possibilities: Eugene, Salem, Spokane, Bend, Kennewick, and Redding. Each city will be given one of the three cop flavor names that is not randomly given to the three town cops. Vanilla townies will be given a random small town in the Pacific Northwest region; mafia will also be given a small town flavor name to be used as a vanilla town fakeclaim.

Mechanics:

Cops are not told their sanity and (added clarification) do not flip their sanity upon dying.
Traitor is told who are cities at the start of the game. Traitor is recruited if killed by the cities.
Traitor comes up as a town on cop investigations until they are recruited by a city kill.

Roles:

Cities:
2 Framers
1 Traitor

Towns:
2 Sane Cops
1 Insane Cop
7 Vanilla Townies

Role PMs:

City Framer:

You are [Seattle/Portland,] a city framer! Each night, you may visit one person. That player will investigate as a city for that night. In addition to framing, you and your fellow city framer may talk to each other in this QT at night, [link] and collectively determine your framing night actions and night kill there. If you kill the traitor at night, you recruit them onto your team.

You win when cities control the majority of living players or nothing can prevent that from happening.

City Traitor:

You are San Francisco, a city traitor! If the other cities kill you, you join the city quicktopic. Cops will investigate you as a town until you are recruited.

You win when cities control the majority of living players or nothing can prevent that from happening.

Town Cop:

You are [large town of the PNW], a town cop! Each night, you may investigate a player to learn whether their alignment is town or city. You do not know whether or not you are sane.

You win when all threats to the towns have been eliminated.

Vanilla Town:

You are [town of the PNW], a vanilla town! You have no night actions, and your only weapon is your vote.

You win when all threats to the towns have been eliminated.

Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia
Post by: gkrieg13 on August 18, 2018, 11:25:24 am
Well I may have to get kkrieg to play this one.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia
Post by: LaLight on August 18, 2018, 12:07:05 pm
/in 5 times!
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia
Post by: Galzria on August 18, 2018, 12:41:55 pm
/in?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia
Post by: Awaclus on August 18, 2018, 12:49:04 pm
/in
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia
Post by: 2.71828..... on August 18, 2018, 02:22:06 pm
/in
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia
Post by: Robz888 on August 18, 2018, 02:53:40 pm
/in
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia
Post by: mcmcsalot on August 18, 2018, 03:28:15 pm
/in
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia
Post by: Simon Jester on August 18, 2018, 06:14:04 pm
/tag
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia
Post by: Joseph2302 on August 18, 2018, 06:46:19 pm
/in
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia
Post by: Hydrad on August 19, 2018, 06:06:40 am
/in

dibs being insane cop and ruining everything.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia
Post by: iguanaiguana on August 19, 2018, 09:26:59 am
Five spots left! That's only three spots left if we get /in from gkrieg and kkrieg.

Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (five spots left!)
Post by: Dsell on August 20, 2018, 03:08:15 pm
/in

My last day alive in a game of f.ds forum mafia was 4 years and 7 days ago.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (five spots left!)
Post by: LaLight on August 20, 2018, 03:20:06 pm
/in

My last day alive in a game of f.ds forum mafia was 4 years and 7 days ago.

And I am sure I have read this. Welcome back!
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (five spots left!)
Post by: Dsell on August 20, 2018, 03:23:33 pm
/in

My last day alive in a game of f.ds forum mafia was 4 years and 7 days ago.

And I am sure I have read this. Welcome back!

Thank you! I used to be one of the very active players. I've been teasing the idea of playing again recently. I'm from Oregon, so a game about the PNW is perfect to get me back.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia
Post by: gkrieg13 on August 20, 2018, 03:35:54 pm
Five spots left! That's only three spots left if we get /in from gkrieg and kkrieg.

I think it was a no from kkrieg, but /in from gkrieg
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (five spots left!)
Post by: Galzria on August 20, 2018, 03:54:32 pm
/in

My last day alive in a game of f.ds forum mafia was 4 years and 7 days ago.


!!!

Hey bud, how you been? Welcome back! Your hiatus just managed to outlast mine!
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (five spots left!)
Post by: DatSwan on August 20, 2018, 03:57:40 pm
/in
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (five spots left!)
Post by: Dsell on August 20, 2018, 04:22:14 pm
/in

My last day alive in a game of f.ds forum mafia was 4 years and 7 days ago.


!!!

Hey bud, how you been? Welcome back! Your hiatus just managed to outlast mine!

I've been good!! A few life changes here and there, but I have a lot more time these days, and f.ds is less demoralizing than constantly bathing in the deluge of the news cycle.  ;D
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (five spots left!)
Post by: iguanaiguana on August 20, 2018, 08:56:11 pm
/in

My last day alive in a game of f.ds forum mafia was 4 years and 7 days ago.

And I am sure I have read this. Welcome back!

Thank you! I used to be one of the very active players. I've been teasing the idea of playing again recently. I'm from Oregon, so a game about the PNW is perfect to get me back.

Oh cool, you went inactive just before I started playing here. I remember reading through some of your forum survivor 2 stuff.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (five spots left!)
Post by: Dsell on August 20, 2018, 09:31:14 pm
/in

My last day alive in a game of f.ds forum mafia was 4 years and 7 days ago.

And I am sure I have read this. Welcome back!

Thank you! I used to be one of the very active players. I've been teasing the idea of playing again recently. I'm from Oregon, so a game about the PNW is perfect to get me back.

Oh cool, you went inactive just before I started playing here. I remember reading through some of your forum survivor 2 stuff.

Wow, weird!!! It's nice to get such a warm welcome back. I really am excited to play again!
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (two spots left!)
Post by: Robz888 on August 20, 2018, 09:54:59 pm
Dsell!!!!!
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (two spots left!)
Post by: Dsell on August 20, 2018, 10:07:46 pm
Dsell!!!!!

Robz!!!

(I literally have no idea how you still find time for mafia with all that you do.)
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (two spots left!)
Post by: Robz888 on August 20, 2018, 11:17:57 pm
Dsell!!!!!

Robz!!!

(I literally have no idea how you still find time for mafia with all that you do.)

Took the train to NYC and back today!
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (two spots left!)
Post by: faust on August 21, 2018, 08:19:22 am
What, Dsell is here?

/in

One of my first ever scumpartners.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Take the last spot!!!)
Post by: pingpongsam on August 21, 2018, 11:15:57 am
ok, if faust is in them I'm /in

can't have him having an unirksome game
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Take the last spot!!!)
Post by: faust on August 21, 2018, 11:19:52 am
ok, if faust is in them I'm /in

can't have him having an unirksome game
Irk.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Take the last spot!!!)
Post by: LaLight on August 21, 2018, 11:24:12 am
Why exactly haven't I got my pm still?!
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Take the last spot!!!)
Post by: LaLight on August 21, 2018, 11:26:37 am
(http://t.qkme.me/3vf85v.jpg)
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Take the last spot!!!)
Post by: Galzria on August 21, 2018, 12:02:22 pm
ok, if faust is in them I'm /in

can't have him having an unirksome game

Don't worry, I'm here to help.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Take the last spot!!!)
Post by: Eevee on August 21, 2018, 12:04:39 pm
Hi Dsell!

Available to sub if the need arises.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Take the last spot!!!)
Post by: Dsell on August 21, 2018, 12:30:32 pm
Faust, PPS, Eevee!! So many terrific old faces!  :P
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Take the last spot!!!)
Post by: iguanaiguana on August 21, 2018, 01:50:39 pm
PMs are going to start slowly going out. N0 starts now and ends tomorrow around 5PM forum time provided I get confirms in time.

Confirm you saw your role in your QT.  Thread locked!
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: iguanaiguana on August 22, 2018, 05:21:20 pm
As the sun rose over each little town of the Pacific Northwest, there was trepidation in the air. Everyone was wondering how long it would take for the cities to self-destruct, and how many towns they would take down with them before they fell.

Day 1 starts now!

Vote count 1.0

not voting (13): Lalight, Galzria, Awaclus, 2.71828..., McMcsalot, Robz888, Joseph2302, Hydrad, Dsell, gkrieg13, DatSwan, faust, pingpongsam

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends, Wednesday, August 29, 2018, 05:30:00 pm

Thread unlocked!
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: LaLight on August 22, 2018, 05:27:24 pm
A GAME
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: LaLight on August 22, 2018, 05:28:00 pm
bote: mcmcsalot he's obv!scum not posting for so ong in a game, town!mcmc is more active.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: LaLight on August 22, 2018, 05:28:29 pm
sorry I am too excited to write without mistakes. vote: mcmcsalot
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: LaLight on August 22, 2018, 05:29:50 pm
also I can see I can modify and remove topics. This is very-very bad.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: LaLight on August 22, 2018, 05:30:21 pm
I think it's because of the change in accessing guests. I believe no one will violate the rules, but someone might
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: LaLight on August 22, 2018, 05:32:01 pm
Post Count:

Lalight - 5
Galzria - 0
Awaclus - 0
2.71828... - 0
McMcsalot - 0
Robz888 - 0
Joseph2302 - 0
Hydrad - 0
Dsell - 0
gkrieg13 - 0
DatSwan - 0
faust - 0
pingpongsam - 0

Unacceptable. Prod: everyone except this awesome active townie LaLight guy
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Dsell on August 22, 2018, 05:32:57 pm
Mafia! It's been so long since I've played or even thought about forum mafia. I have poked around one or two games but am not up on any metas. I've also never played or heard of this scenario until reading about this, but it seems interesting.

I remember five people pretty well (Galz, Robz, PPS, faust, mcmc), and seven at least a lil (e and hydrad). You others are all new to me! Though I've seen Awaclus posting everywhere besides forum games a bunch.

Any crazy meta things I should be aware of?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Dsell on August 22, 2018, 05:42:32 pm
LaLight, notable self-proclaimed active townie, tell me about yourself!
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: LaLight on August 22, 2018, 05:52:01 pm
Mafia! It's been so long since I've played or even thought about forum mafia. I have poked around one or two games but am not up on any metas. I've also never played or heard of this scenario until reading about this, but it seems interesting.

I remember five people pretty well (Galz, Robz, PPS, faust, mcmc), and seven at least a lil (e and hydrad). You others are all new to me! Though I've seen Awaclus posting everywhere besides forum games a bunch.

Any crazy meta things I should be aware of?

I'll walk you through it as well as I could.

Lalight - That's me, a lot of played game, overly enthusiastic, always shitty reads, always thinking someone is making some crazy gambit and suspecting Innocent Children. My alignment will be obvious at least on D3, so there's no reason to lynch me ever, also I was chosen as the most fun to play with in 2017.

Galzria - he is awesome! Came back after long hiatus, ultrascum player and when town killing with his accurate reads. You probably know him, but now he's a killing machin. Let's hope he's town.

Awaclus - he is awesome! Awaclus is always playing for the win and it makes him scary opponent if you are scum and he puts his eye on you! When he's scum, he is usually overly helpful, but people just never think of it. He won solehandedly Mafia 101 in a the most awesome way after his partner was lynched D1.

2.71828... - he is awesome! Not so active as he once was, 2.7 is still one of the people I love reading scum games with the most. He has a unique ability to fly under the radar when he needs it as no one else, and if he's town, you better listen to him!

McMcsalot - he is awesome! He's very active and fun, questioning a lot of questions and ruling the stream of the game. I like him when he's town, and I liked him as a scum partner as well, so it will be a cool game just because mcmc is here. Also, Robz' brother if you forgot.

Robz888 - he is awesome! After his own long hiatus came back and rocked! He is playing like all the games, and when he returned, he had like 4-5 games in a row when he was scum and no one ever suspected him. As town though he is usually a lackluster (his signature), so we'll see :)

Joseph2302 - he is awesome! Universally scumread guy who is almost never scum. Usually gets lynched and flips town. Even when we had a meetup event and played Mafia, Joseph was lynched first, being a survivor :) Usually has quite good reads though! And I am yet to see scum!Joseph. Bonus: probably will claim SK (there's none in a game if that'll confuse anyone)

Hydrad - he is awesome! Just returned to us and already winning our hearts back! Unfortunately I played only one game with him, so I have not much to say about his current meta, but we had 1-v-1 (I was scum, he was town) and I lost.

Dsell - you are awesome!

gkrieg13 - he is awesome! Considered as one of the best players of modern community, gkrieg always plays extremely pro-town and can guess the whole scum-team in his first post and be right. That's why, along with faust, he is usually a N1 kill.

DatSwan - he is awesome! Though he came not so long ago, DatSwan is a radar always pointing at scum. When I was scum, I was eager to kill him as early as possible, as this guy not only has awesome reads, but also can convince people to vote for you. If you're scum, beware!

faust - he is awesome! Well, I'd go as far as will call faust the best Mafia player I know. And this concerns everything - reads, convincing, scum!play, using PR, also modding.

pingpongsam - he is awesome! One of the most fun players! If he's scum, he will eventually scumslip as he never reads the setup :)

PPE: here you go
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: LaLight on August 22, 2018, 05:55:26 pm
Note: everything below is my opinion, I hope I never insulted anyone :)
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: LaLight on August 22, 2018, 05:55:54 pm
Note: everything above is my opinion, I hope I never insulted anyone :)

ftfm
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Dsell on August 22, 2018, 06:07:12 pm
What great info. Thank you! I remember PPS being undefeated for a really long time so I'm surprised to see him associated with scumslips in any way. You have built everyone up so much that it seems like it'd be a mistake to lynch anyone besides you!  ;D
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: LaLight on August 22, 2018, 06:11:01 pm
What great info. Thank you! I remember PPS being undefeated for a really long time so I'm surprised to see him associated with scumslips in any way. You have built everyone up so much that it seems like it'd be a mistake to lynch anyone besides you!  ;D

Nah, lynching me is also a mistake. I was mislynched only once in all my games and that was because I signed up for a game I didn't have time for and never defended myself, so it was my fault
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: 2.71828..... on August 22, 2018, 06:24:44 pm
Hi everyone!

now that we are done with that, on to winning the game.  people who run probabilities: does a 10 VT vs 3 goons favor town or scum?  Because looking at the setup that is basically how I see it playing out.  I mean, MAYBE we can trust a cop result D3/D4, but even then scum may have framed the target.  I feel as if this is going to play out very much like a straight vanilla game
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on August 22, 2018, 06:42:42 pm
boat: LaLight

Obviously scummy scummy scummy for the information he provided.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: 2.71828..... on August 22, 2018, 06:45:38 pm
That being said, lets go through and rate LaLight's thoughts on people:
I'll walk you through it as well as I could.

Lalight - That's me, a lot of played game, overly enthusiastic, always shitty reads, always thinking someone is making some crazy gambit and suspecting Innocent Children. My alignment will be obvious at least on D3, so there's no reason to lynch me ever, also I was chosen as the most fun to play with in 2017.
Don't get down on yourself for your bad reads.  People only ever remember when you have good reads (see comments on myself)

Quote
Galzria - he is awesome! Came back after long hiatus, ultrascum player and when town killing with his accurate reads. You probably know him, but now he's a killing machin. Let's hope he's town.
Accurate.

Quote
Awaclus - he is awesome! Awaclus is always playing for the win and it makes him scary opponent if you are scum and he puts his eye on you! When he's scum, he is usually overly helpful, but people just never think of it. He won solehandedly Mafia 101 in a the most awesome way after his partner was lynched D1.
When I think of Awaclus playing mafia I think stubborn.  I don't think scary.  Maybe I just haven't been on the wrong side of Awaclus to generate the appropriate amount of fear

Quote
2.71828... - he is awesome! Not so active as he once was, 2.7 is still one of the people I love reading scum games with the most. He has a unique ability to fly under the radar when he needs it as no one else, and if he's town, you better listen to him!
Really wants to be active, but sometimes life happens.  Reads are absolute garbage.  If you want to know who town is, read e's scum list and you should pretty much know who is town.

Quote
McMcsalot - he is awesome! He's very active and fun, questioning a lot of questions and ruling the stream of the game. I like him when he's town, and I liked him as a scum partner as well, so it will be a cool game just because mcmc is here. Also, Robz' brother if you forgot.
This summary works

Quote
Robz888 - he is awesome! After his own long hiatus came back and rocked! He is playing like all the games, and when he returned, he had like 4-5 games in a row when he was scum and no one ever suspected him. As town though he is usually a lackluster (his signature), so we'll see :)
When I think of Robz I always think of my first mafia game here (Toy Story) where I suspected him as scum then didn't follow through on that read and let him go.  He was scum.  That being said, smiley faces and making jokes are scummy, but not as much as they used to be almost 5(?!) years ago.

Quote
Joseph2302 - he is awesome! Universally scumread guy who is almost never scum. Usually gets lynched and flips town. Even when we had a meetup event and played Mafia, Joseph was lynched first, being a survivor :) Usually has quite good reads though! And I am yet to see scum!Joseph. Bonus: probably will claim SK (there's none in a game if that'll confuse anyone)
Joseph does get lynched a lot.

Quote
Hydrad - he is awesome! Just returned to us and already winning our hearts back! Unfortunately I played only one game with him, so I have not much to say about his current meta, but we had 1-v-1 (I was scum, he was town) and I lost.
Hydrad is really fun to play with, I am struggling to remember anything else.

Quote
Dsell - you are awesome!
Is LaLight just trying to buddy everyone?  All of these comments have been positive so far.

Quote
gkrieg13 - he is awesome! Considered as one of the best players of modern community, gkrieg always plays extremely pro-town and can guess the whole scum-team in his first post and be right. That's why, along with faust, he is usually a N1 kill.
gkrieg does very frequently die N1.  Maybe the new Robz from M40-M50ish (i.e. he survived to D3 therefore gkrieg is scum)

Quote
DatSwan - he is awesome! Though he came not so long ago, DatSwan is a radar always pointing at scum. When I was scum, I was eager to kill him as early as possible, as this guy not only has awesome reads, but also can convince people to vote for you. If you're scum, beware!
this is really starting to read like the LEGO movie theme song.  Everything is Awesome!  Everything is cool when you are part of a team! Everything is Awesome!  That being said, I don't remember DatSwan having the convincing power that LaLight refers to.  or maybe I just stubbornly hold on to my incorrect reads.

Quote
faust - he is awesome! Well, I'd go as far as will call faust the best Mafia player I know. And this concerns everything - reads, convincing, scum!play, using PR, also modding.
  Or maybe faust is the player who if he is alive on D3/D4 has to be scum?  Faust does tend to be able to convince me of his reads fairly well, which is great for mafia.  And faust is pretty great at mafia

Quote
pingpongsam - he is awesome! One of the most fun players! If he's scum, he will eventually scumslip as he never reads the setup :)
PPS is the player that I always defend for saying something off the wall crazy and then usually flips town and I feel very justified.  Or flips scum and I just defended him a bunch and things are awkward.  Both have happened.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: 2.71828..... on August 22, 2018, 06:47:13 pm
boat: LaLight

Obviously scummy scummy scummy for the information he provided.

No, more like towny towny towny for buddying literally every person in the game.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: 2.71828..... on August 22, 2018, 06:51:35 pm
Post Count 1.e:

Lalight - 10
Galzria - 0
Awaclus - 0
2.71828... - 4
McMcsalot - 0
Robz888 - 0
Joseph2302 - 0
Hydrad - 0
Dsell - 3
gkrieg13 - 1
DatSwan - 0
faust - 0
pingpongsam - 0

Still way too many lurkers.  Since we can't trust results we need to use other irrelevant data points such as post counts for lynching people

pro-tip for post counts: include the actual post count post in your own count!
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: 2.71828..... on August 22, 2018, 06:53:32 pm
also, iguana, can you please move the thread over to mafia games?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Awaclus on August 22, 2018, 07:26:18 pm
When I think of Awaclus playing mafia I think stubborn.  I don't think scary.  Maybe I just haven't been on the wrong side of Awaclus to generate the appropriate amount of fear

Well, I guess it depends on whether or not you think you can get me mislynched.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Awaclus on August 22, 2018, 07:29:30 pm
Playerlist:

1. Lalight
2. Galzria?
3. Awaclus
4. e
5. McMcsalot
6. Robz888
7. Joseph2302
8. Hydrad
9. Dsell
10. gkrieg13
11. DatSwan
12. faust
13.

@mod: Who is this "" person? I don't think I've played with them before.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Awaclus on August 22, 2018, 07:31:36 pm
2.71828... - 4

= -1.28172...
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: LaLight on August 22, 2018, 07:32:26 pm
vote: 2.7
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Awaclus on August 22, 2018, 07:33:17 pm
Vote: LaLight
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: LaLight on August 22, 2018, 07:36:04 pm
vote: Awaclus
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: LaLight on August 22, 2018, 07:36:26 pm
vote: going to bed
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Awaclus on August 22, 2018, 07:36:57 pm
vote: Awaclus

Vote: LaLight
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: LaLight on August 22, 2018, 07:37:41 pm
vote: Awaclus

Vote: LaLight

vote: Awaclus
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Awaclus on August 22, 2018, 07:44:51 pm
vote: Awaclus

Vote: LaLight

vote: Awaclus

Vote: LaLight
OMGUS!
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Dsell on August 22, 2018, 07:53:48 pm
vote: Awaclus

Vote: LaLight

vote: Awaclus

Vote: LaLight
OMGUS!

I remember that term! Awaclus, what is your play typically like when you roll scum?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Galzria on August 22, 2018, 11:55:32 pm
LaLight & Dsell, obv!town.

Awaclus, prob!town.

2.718, slight!scum.

Gkrieg posted? Obviously inflating post count without providing content. Don't remember anything he said. vote: Gkrieg

Everybody else: Lurking too much. 7 players lurking? Probably at least 2 scum there.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Galzria on August 22, 2018, 11:57:01 pm
LaLight v Awaclus:

LaLight is slightly more townie, but close. Both OMGUS pretty hard as town.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Hydrad on August 23, 2018, 12:03:00 am
Oh man galz is onto me with the lurking part and scum team. Guess I'll post something.

As for how I play this is how I view myself. Bad at both town and mafia in reading and stuff. But somehow I don't feel like when I'm town that I die a lot. I don't usually get myslynched as town but I usually get caught quickly as scum. So somehow I tend to just be obvious about my play I think which isn't good for me as a player. But I guess it's good for us this time
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Dsell on August 23, 2018, 12:03:54 am
LaLight & Dsell, obv!town.

Well sure it's obvious if you're scum.

Good to play with you again, Galz! It's too bad you're trying to frame and kill this lovely town we have here!
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Dsell on August 23, 2018, 12:08:46 am
Oh man galz is onto me with the lurking part and scum team. Guess I'll post something.

As for how I play this is how I view myself. Bad at both town and mafia in reading and stuff. But somehow I don't feel like when I'm town that I die a lot. I don't usually get myslynched as town but I usually get caught quickly as scum. So somehow I tend to just be obvious about my play I think which isn't good for me as a player. But I guess it's good for us this time

Don't be so hard on yourself! We'll be plenty hard on you. Who is your third scumpartner with Galz?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Hydrad on August 23, 2018, 12:13:57 am
Oh man galz is onto me with the lurking part and scum team. Guess I'll post something.

As for how I play this is how I view myself. Bad at both town and mafia in reading and stuff. But somehow I don't feel like when I'm town that I die a lot. I don't usually get myslynched as town but I usually get caught quickly as scum. So somehow I tend to just be obvious about my play I think which isn't good for me as a player. But I guess it's good for us this time

Don't be so hard on yourself! We'll be plenty hard on you. Who is your third scumpartner with Galz?

Joseph. Lynch him first.

Vote: Joseph
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Galzria on August 23, 2018, 12:19:31 am
LaLight & Dsell, obv!town.

Well sure it's obvious if you're scum.

Good to play with you again, Galz! It's too bad you're trying to frame and kill this lovely town we have here!

No no no - no framing!

LaLight is actually pretty townie because, as scum, I honestly don't believe he's the type to jump at thread spamming in the opening posts. He's much more likely to let the game establish first and then join the fray with an idea of where to go.

You're townie because I don't want you lynched on D1 of your first game back in over 4 years - so you get free town points for now. At least enough to carry you to D2 unless you do something absurdly scummy, like, say, admitting to being scum.

Would you like to admit to being scum?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Galzria on August 23, 2018, 12:23:01 am
Oh man galz is onto me with the lurking part and scum team. Guess I'll post something.

As for how I play this is how I view myself. Bad at both town and mafia in reading and stuff. But somehow I don't feel like when I'm town that I die a lot. I don't usually get myslynched as town but I usually get caught quickly as scum. So somehow I tend to just be obvious about my play I think which isn't good for me as a player. But I guess it's good for us this time

Don't be so hard on yourself! We'll be plenty hard on you. Who is your third scumpartner with Galz?

Joseph. Lynch him first.

Vote: Joseph

You don't need to lie here. You can tell them Gkrieg is our third. He's totally not that valuable and will buy us town points when he flips scum.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Hydrad on August 23, 2018, 12:27:16 am
Oh man galz is onto me with the lurking part and scum team. Guess I'll post something.

As for how I play this is how I view myself. Bad at both town and mafia in reading and stuff. But somehow I don't feel like when I'm town that I die a lot. I don't usually get myslynched as town but I usually get caught quickly as scum. So somehow I tend to just be obvious about my play I think which isn't good for me as a player. But I guess it's good for us this time

Don't be so hard on yourself! We'll be plenty hard on you. Who is your third scumpartner with Galz?

Joseph. Lynch him first.

Vote: Joseph

You don't need to lie here. You can tell them Gkrieg is our third. He's totally not that valuable and will buy us town points when he flips scum.

ah ok

Vote: Gkrieg
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: faust on August 23, 2018, 01:38:54 am
I feel pressured to live up to the expectations...

Let's vote: Galzria for now.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Galzria on August 23, 2018, 02:08:03 am
I feel pressured to live up to the expectations...

Let's vote: Galzria for now.

That's not unusual or unexpected, coming from you, afterall.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Galzria on August 23, 2018, 02:08:41 am
I feel pressured to live up to the expectations...

Let's vote: Galzria for now.

Do you disagree with my assessment of LaLight?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: faust on August 23, 2018, 02:08:54 am
Hi everyone!

now that we are done with that, on to winning the game.  people who run probabilities: does a 10 VT vs 3 goons favor town or scum?  Because looking at the setup that is basically how I see it playing out.  I mean, MAYBE we can trust a cop result D3/D4, but even then scum may have framed the target.  I feel as if this is going to play out very much like a straight vanilla game
Following up on this. If we agree that Cops are pretty much useless even, we should absolutely push for a massclaim as that will inprove our lynch pool decisions.

But! I think there is a better way. And that is for all three Cops to investigate the same target N1. Then if they all would claim D2, every Cop knows their Sanity, so we basically have 3 full Cops starting D2. There is still Framing, but at least innocent results could be trusted.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: faust on August 23, 2018, 02:09:27 am
I feel pressured to live up to the expectations...

Let's vote: Galzria for now.

That's not unusual or unexpected, coming from you, afterall.
You mean because I'm so good at scumhunting?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: faust on August 23, 2018, 02:10:21 am
Hi everyone!

now that we are done with that, on to winning the game.  people who run probabilities: does a 10 VT vs 3 goons favor town or scum?  Because looking at the setup that is basically how I see it playing out.  I mean, MAYBE we can trust a cop result D3/D4, but even then scum may have framed the target.  I feel as if this is going to play out very much like a straight vanilla game
Following up on this. If we agree that Cops are pretty much useless even, we should absolutely push for a massclaim as that will inprove our lynch pool decisions.

But! I think there is a better way. And that is for all three Cops to investigate the same target N1. Then if they all would claim D2, every Cop knows their Sanity, so we basically have 3 full Cops starting D2. There is still Framing, but at least innocent results could be trusted.
I forgot the important bit: We need to have a valid investigation target that is not a Cop. I am not a Cop.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: faust on August 23, 2018, 02:14:06 am
I feel pressured to live up to the expectations...

Let's vote: Galzria for now.

Do you disagree with my assessment of LaLight?
I think he reads excited to be in a game. I don't think that is alignment-indicative. But I also think that people who already know he is town would be quick to take something like this as an alignment-tell, based on the thought that LaLight is obvious as town anyway and it would be better for them to be the first to townread him.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Hydrad on August 23, 2018, 02:15:12 am
Hi everyone!

now that we are done with that, on to winning the game.  people who run probabilities: does a 10 VT vs 3 goons favor town or scum?  Because looking at the setup that is basically how I see it playing out.  I mean, MAYBE we can trust a cop result D3/D4, but even then scum may have framed the target.  I feel as if this is going to play out very much like a straight vanilla game
Following up on this. If we agree that Cops are pretty much useless even, we should absolutely push for a massclaim as that will inprove our lynch pool decisions.

But! I think there is a better way. And that is for all three Cops to investigate the same target N1. Then if they all would claim D2, every Cop knows their Sanity, so we basically have 3 full Cops starting D2. There is still Framing, but at least innocent results could be trusted.
I forgot the important bit: We need to have a valid investigation target that is not a Cop. I am not a Cop.

Wait but now scum just kills you and makes it not work. Especially since you are a high N1 kill target anyways
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: faust on August 23, 2018, 02:17:27 am
Hi everyone!

now that we are done with that, on to winning the game.  people who run probabilities: does a 10 VT vs 3 goons favor town or scum?  Because looking at the setup that is basically how I see it playing out.  I mean, MAYBE we can trust a cop result D3/D4, but even then scum may have framed the target.  I feel as if this is going to play out very much like a straight vanilla game
Following up on this. If we agree that Cops are pretty much useless even, we should absolutely push for a massclaim as that will inprove our lynch pool decisions.

But! I think there is a better way. And that is for all three Cops to investigate the same target N1. Then if they all would claim D2, every Cop knows their Sanity, so we basically have 3 full Cops starting D2. There is still Framing, but at least innocent results could be trusted.
I forgot the important bit: We need to have a valid investigation target that is not a Cop. I am not a Cop.

Wait but now scum just kills you and makes it not work. Especially since you are a high N1 kill target anyways
Why would it not work if they kill me?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Hydrad on August 23, 2018, 02:19:44 am
I'd suggest targeting another volunteer instead of Faust. But maybe we should hold out that claim to make sure it's the right call so that we don't all out cops instantly. But honestly a full mass claim isn't a terrible idea d1. We could use it as either 3ics or scum is a 1 in 4 kinda idea. Honestly both options look good to me since if they blend in with the cops then the won't want to night kill them and then cops might be able to get results
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Hydrad on August 23, 2018, 02:21:25 am
Hi everyone!

now that we are done with that, on to winning the game.  people who run probabilities: does a 10 VT vs 3 goons favor town or scum?  Because looking at the setup that is basically how I see it playing out.  I mean, MAYBE we can trust a cop result D3/D4, but even then scum may have framed the target.  I feel as if this is going to play out very much like a straight vanilla game
Following up on this. If we agree that Cops are pretty much useless even, we should absolutely push for a massclaim as that will inprove our lynch pool decisions.

But! I think there is a better way. And that is for all three Cops to investigate the same target N1. Then if they all would claim D2, every Cop knows their Sanity, so we basically have 3 full Cops starting D2. There is still Framing, but at least innocent results could be trusted.
I forgot the important bit: We need to have a valid investigation target that is not a Cop. I am not a Cop.

Wait but now scum just kills you and makes it not work. Especially since you are a high N1 kill target anyways
Why would it not work if they kill me?

Oh. Right. For some reason I thought it would like negate the result if they killed you since you would be dead so you couldn't be copped. But that's not how it works.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: faust on August 23, 2018, 02:27:02 am
The question of how we orchestrate a Cop claim D2 is nontrivial, but I it is beneficial for us to not discuss it today.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Hydrad on August 23, 2018, 02:29:19 am
How about I decide claim order. I'm fine with it.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Galzria on August 23, 2018, 02:29:35 am
I feel pressured to live up to the expectations...

Let's vote: Galzria for now.

Do you disagree with my assessment of LaLight?
I think he reads excited to be in a game. I don't think that is alignment-indicative. But I also think that people who already know he is town would be quick to take something like this as an alignment-tell, based on the thought that LaLight is obvious as town anyway and it would be better for them to be the first to townread him.

I disagree, and you ignored the thrust of my point - that scum!LaLight isn't the type of player, excited or not, to throw himself in before allowing others to set the tone first.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Galzria on August 23, 2018, 02:30:47 am
I feel pressured to live up to the expectations...

Let's vote: Galzria for now.

That's not unusual or unexpected, coming from you, afterall.
You mean because I'm so good at scumhunting?

To each their own opinion.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: faust on August 23, 2018, 02:32:31 am
I feel pressured to live up to the expectations...

Let's vote: Galzria for now.

Do you disagree with my assessment of LaLight?
I think he reads excited to be in a game. I don't think that is alignment-indicative. But I also think that people who already know he is town would be quick to take something like this as an alignment-tell, based on the thought that LaLight is obvious as town anyway and it would be better for them to be the first to townread him.

I disagree, and you ignored the thrust of my point - that scum!LaLight isn't the type of player, excited or not, to throw himself in before allowing others to set the tone first.
Well then I disagree on that.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Galzria on August 23, 2018, 02:33:58 am
I'm not certain orchestrating a cop claim D2 is super useful - but I'll admit to having given it no real thought. It just feels wrong. Wasn't this setup run once before, where town did well based on good cop play? How was the setup handled in that game?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: faust on August 23, 2018, 02:35:52 am
I'm not certain orchestrating a cop claim D2 is super useful - but I'll admit to having given it no real thought. It just feels wrong. Wasn't this setup run once before, where town did well based on good cop play? How was the setup handled in that game?
This setup wasn't run here, only a different one where I think there was some randomness involved in sanities.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: DatSwan on August 23, 2018, 02:36:30 am
Mafia! It's been so long since I've played or even thought about forum mafia. I have poked around one or two games but am not up on any metas. I've also never played or heard of this scenario until reading about this, but it seems interesting.

I remember five people pretty well (Galz, Robz, PPS, faust, mcmc), and seven at least a lil (e and hydrad). You others are all new to me! Though I've seen Awaclus posting everywhere besides forum games a bunch.

Any crazy meta things I should be aware of?

I'll walk you through it as well as I could.

Lalight - That's me, a lot of played game, overly enthusiastic, always shitty reads, always thinking someone is making some crazy gambit and suspecting Innocent Children. My alignment will be obvious at least on D3, so there's no reason to lynch me ever, also I was chosen as the most fun to play with in 2017.

Galzria - he is awesome! Came back after long hiatus, ultrascum player and when town killing with his accurate reads. You probably know him, but now he's a killing machin. Let's hope he's town.

Awaclus - he is awesome! Awaclus is always playing for the win and it makes him scary opponent if you are scum and he puts his eye on you! When he's scum, he is usually overly helpful, but people just never think of it. He won solehandedly Mafia 101 in a the most awesome way after his partner was lynched D1.

2.71828... - he is awesome! Not so active as he once was, 2.7 is still one of the people I love reading scum games with the most. He has a unique ability to fly under the radar when he needs it as no one else, and if he's town, you better listen to him!

McMcsalot - he is awesome! He's very active and fun, questioning a lot of questions and ruling the stream of the game. I like him when he's town, and I liked him as a scum partner as well, so it will be a cool game just because mcmc is here. Also, Robz' brother if you forgot.

Robz888 - he is awesome! After his own long hiatus came back and rocked! He is playing like all the games, and when he returned, he had like 4-5 games in a row when he was scum and no one ever suspected him. As town though he is usually a lackluster (his signature), so we'll see :)

Joseph2302 - he is awesome! Universally scumread guy who is almost never scum. Usually gets lynched and flips town. Even when we had a meetup event and played Mafia, Joseph was lynched first, being a survivor :) Usually has quite good reads though! And I am yet to see scum!Joseph. Bonus: probably will claim SK (there's none in a game if that'll confuse anyone)

Hydrad - he is awesome! Just returned to us and already winning our hearts back! Unfortunately I played only one game with him, so I have not much to say about his current meta, but we had 1-v-1 (I was scum, he was town) and I lost.

Dsell - you are awesome!

gkrieg13 - he is awesome! Considered as one of the best players of modern community, gkrieg always plays extremely pro-town and can guess the whole scum-team in his first post and be right. That's why, along with faust, he is usually a N1 kill.

DatSwan - he is awesome! Though he came not so long ago, DatSwan is a radar always pointing at scum. When I was scum, I was eager to kill him as early as possible, as this guy not only has awesome reads, but also can convince people to vote for you. If you're scum, beware!

faust - he is awesome! Well, I'd go as far as will call faust the best Mafia player I know. And this concerns everything - reads, convincing, scum!play, using PR, also modding.

pingpongsam - he is awesome! One of the most fun players! If he's scum, he will eventually scumslip as he never reads the setup :)

PPE: here you go

Also this is Iguana's game - so if you make a reads list be sure to add yourself in - otherwise you are skum :P
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Galzria on August 23, 2018, 02:37:21 am
Mafia! It's been so long since I've played or even thought about forum mafia. I have poked around one or two games but am not up on any metas. I've also never played or heard of this scenario until reading about this, but it seems interesting.

I remember five people pretty well (Galz, Robz, PPS, faust, mcmc), and seven at least a lil (e and hydrad). You others are all new to me! Though I've seen Awaclus posting everywhere besides forum games a bunch.

Any crazy meta things I should be aware of?

I'll walk you through it as well as I could.

Lalight - That's me, a lot of played game, overly enthusiastic, always shitty reads, always thinking someone is making some crazy gambit and suspecting Innocent Children. My alignment will be obvious at least on D3, so there's no reason to lynch me ever, also I was chosen as the most fun to play with in 2017.

Galzria - he is awesome! Came back after long hiatus, ultrascum player and when town killing with his accurate reads. You probably know him, but now he's a killing machin. Let's hope he's town.

Awaclus - he is awesome! Awaclus is always playing for the win and it makes him scary opponent if you are scum and he puts his eye on you! When he's scum, he is usually overly helpful, but people just never think of it. He won solehandedly Mafia 101 in a the most awesome way after his partner was lynched D1.

2.71828... - he is awesome! Not so active as he once was, 2.7 is still one of the people I love reading scum games with the most. He has a unique ability to fly under the radar when he needs it as no one else, and if he's town, you better listen to him!

McMcsalot - he is awesome! He's very active and fun, questioning a lot of questions and ruling the stream of the game. I like him when he's town, and I liked him as a scum partner as well, so it will be a cool game just because mcmc is here. Also, Robz' brother if you forgot.

Robz888 - he is awesome! After his own long hiatus came back and rocked! He is playing like all the games, and when he returned, he had like 4-5 games in a row when he was scum and no one ever suspected him. As town though he is usually a lackluster (his signature), so we'll see :)

Joseph2302 - he is awesome! Universally scumread guy who is almost never scum. Usually gets lynched and flips town. Even when we had a meetup event and played Mafia, Joseph was lynched first, being a survivor :) Usually has quite good reads though! And I am yet to see scum!Joseph. Bonus: probably will claim SK (there's none in a game if that'll confuse anyone)

Hydrad - he is awesome! Just returned to us and already winning our hearts back! Unfortunately I played only one game with him, so I have not much to say about his current meta, but we had 1-v-1 (I was scum, he was town) and I lost.

Dsell - you are awesome!

gkrieg13 - he is awesome! Considered as one of the best players of modern community, gkrieg always plays extremely pro-town and can guess the whole scum-team in his first post and be right. That's why, along with faust, he is usually a N1 kill.

DatSwan - he is awesome! Though he came not so long ago, DatSwan is a radar always pointing at scum. When I was scum, I was eager to kill him as early as possible, as this guy not only has awesome reads, but also can convince people to vote for you. If you're scum, beware!

faust - he is awesome! Well, I'd go as far as will call faust the best Mafia player I know. And this concerns everything - reads, convincing, scum!play, using PR, also modding.

pingpongsam - he is awesome! One of the most fun players! If he's scum, he will eventually scumslip as he never reads the setup :)

PPE: here you go

Also this is Iguana's game - so if you make a reads list be sure to add yourself in - otherwise you are skum :P

Pretty sure that was a point made by scum!PPS.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Galzria on August 23, 2018, 02:38:08 am
I'm not certain orchestrating a cop claim D2 is super useful - but I'll admit to having given it no real thought. It just feels wrong. Wasn't this setup run once before, where town did well based on good cop play? How was the setup handled in that game?
This setup wasn't run here, only a different one where I think there was some randomness involved in sanities.

Hum - I may have misread/misremembered a conversation about this then.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: DatSwan on August 23, 2018, 02:38:55 am
Note: everything below is my opinion, I hope I never insulted anyone :)

the nicest opinion anyone has ever had of me lol - I needed a win today (rough day) so thank you.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: DatSwan on August 23, 2018, 02:39:34 am
I also just realized that we are actually doing stuff already somehow so I will shut up and read. sorry.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: faust on August 23, 2018, 02:39:54 am
I'm not certain orchestrating a cop claim D2 is super useful - but I'll admit to having given it no real thought. It just feels wrong. Wasn't this setup run once before, where town did well based on good cop play? How was the setup handled in that game?
This setup wasn't run here, only a different one where I think there was some randomness involved in sanities.

Hum - I may have misread/misremembered a conversation about this then.
I have done some research on the forum's abysmal search function and it seems the only setups where Sanity came into play were RMM31 (closed setup) and M76 (semi-open & heavily randomized).
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Galzria on August 23, 2018, 02:40:53 am
I also just realized that we are actually doing stuff already somehow so I will shut up and read. sorry.

Are you worried about needing to appear serious/involved and not in RVS? Half the players haven't even posted yet.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Galzria on August 23, 2018, 02:43:25 am
I'm not certain orchestrating a cop claim D2 is super useful - but I'll admit to having given it no real thought. It just feels wrong. Wasn't this setup run once before, where town did well based on good cop play? How was the setup handled in that game?
This setup wasn't run here, only a different one where I think there was some randomness involved in sanities.

Hum - I may have misread/misremembered a conversation about this then.
I have done some research on the forum's abysmal search function and it seems the only setups where Sanity came into play were RMM31 (closed setup) and M76 (semi-open & heavily randomized).

Ah, it was a comment from Silver in the thread about the creation of this game where he said he ran a setup based around sanity cops - but it wasn't this setup, and I'm not sure which game it actually was.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: faust on August 23, 2018, 02:44:22 am
I'm not certain orchestrating a cop claim D2 is super useful - but I'll admit to having given it no real thought. It just feels wrong. Wasn't this setup run once before, where town did well based on good cop play? How was the setup handled in that game?
This setup wasn't run here, only a different one where I think there was some randomness involved in sanities.

Hum - I may have misread/misremembered a conversation about this then.
I have done some research on the forum's abysmal search function and it seems the only setups where Sanity came into play were RMM31 (closed setup) and M76 (semi-open & heavily randomized).

Ah, it was a comment from Silver in the thread about the creation of this game where he said he ran a setup based around sanity cops - but it wasn't this setup, and I'm not sure which game it actually was.
I think RMM31, but I don't think I played in it.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Galzria on August 23, 2018, 02:49:24 am
I'll look over the setup more tonight/tomorrow and consider the idea. Also gives players with more setup experience (although you're pretty high up there on that list, faust) than I a chance to look it over.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: LaLight on August 23, 2018, 04:19:29 am
Hi everyone!

now that we are done with that, on to winning the game.  people who run probabilities: does a 10 VT vs 3 goons favor town or scum?  Because looking at the setup that is basically how I see it playing out.  I mean, MAYBE we can trust a cop result D3/D4, but even then scum may have framed the target.  I feel as if this is going to play out very much like a straight vanilla game
Following up on this. If we agree that Cops are pretty much useless even, we should absolutely push for a massclaim as that will inprove our lynch pool decisions.

But! I think there is a better way. And that is for all three Cops to investigate the same target N1. Then if they all would claim D2, every Cop knows their Sanity, so we basically have 3 full Cops starting D2. There is still Framing, but at least innocent results could be trusted.

This is an awesome plan.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: LaLight on August 23, 2018, 04:20:45 am
I feel pressured to live up to the expectations...

Let's vote: Galzria for now.

Do you disagree with my assessment of LaLight?
I think he reads excited to be in a game. I don't think that is alignment-indicative. But I also think that people who already know he is town would be quick to take something like this as an alignment-tell, based on the thought that LaLight is obvious as town anyway and it would be better for them to be the first to townread him.

This is why I love faust. vote: Galzria
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: LaLight on August 23, 2018, 04:23:30 am
No, actually, vote: DatSwan. I am all for cop claims D2 targeting the same person N1.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: LaLight on August 23, 2018, 04:27:28 am
Also no one else should claim cop/not cop, faust did, heís the target. Why would we choose another one?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: faust on August 23, 2018, 04:32:14 am
Also no one else should claim cop/not cop, faust did, heís the target. Why would we choose another one?
Indeed. The whole plan gets significantly worse if a Cop dies before tomorrow.

I would even consider a no lynch today for that reason.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: LaLight on August 23, 2018, 04:34:58 am
Also no one else should claim cop/not cop, faust did, heís the target. Why would we choose another one?
Indeed. The whole plan gets significantly worse if a Cop dies before tomorrow.

I would even consider a no lynch today for that reason.

No. Itís still a free kill for scum.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: faust on August 23, 2018, 04:37:36 am
Also no one else should claim cop/not cop, faust did, heís the target. Why would we choose another one?
Indeed. The whole plan gets significantly worse if a Cop dies before tomorrow.

I would even consider a no lynch today for that reason.

No. Itís still a free kill for scum.
It isn't if they at some point recruit the Traitor. But I guess the chances of that happening are not high enough to warrant us giving up a lynch.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: LaLight on August 23, 2018, 04:41:59 am
Also no one else should claim cop/not cop, faust did, heís the target. Why would we choose another one?
Indeed. The whole plan gets significantly worse if a Cop dies before tomorrow.

I would even consider a no lynch today for that reason.

No. Itís still a free kill for scum.
It isn't if they at some point recruit the Traitor. But I guess the chances of that happening are not high enough to warrant us giving up a lynch.

Indeed. If they do, we'll give up then, on MyLo. So now we should do our best to catch scum D1. I propose DatSwan
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: mcmcsalot on August 23, 2018, 07:28:23 am
I feel pressured to live up to the expectations...

Let's vote: Galzria for now.

Do you disagree with my assessment of LaLight?
I think he reads excited to be in a game. I don't think that is alignment-indicative. But I also think that people who already know he is town would be quick to take something like this as an alignment-tell, based on the thought that LaLight is obvious as town anyway and it would be better for them to be the first to townread him.

Lalight is town, and galz is towny not scummy for quickly coming to the argument that lalights excitement is towny. Also I disagree with Faust so heís town. Thatís a nice start
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Awaclus on August 23, 2018, 07:29:11 am
I remember that term! Awaclus, what is your play typically like when you roll scum?

I bus pretty hard.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: mcmcsalot on August 23, 2018, 07:33:12 am
I remember that term! Awaclus, what is your play typically like when you roll scum?

I bus pretty hard.

I think awaclus is the player with the most similar town and scum play. Also whenever Iím scum I find him about 3 times harder to mislynch than he should be.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: mcmcsalot on August 23, 2018, 07:34:36 am
vote: hydrad

I just read the whole thread and then tried to remember who had and hadnít posted and hydrad came under he hadnít posted category despite posting a decent amount.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: faust on August 23, 2018, 07:35:11 am
No comment on the plan?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: mcmcsalot on August 23, 2018, 07:39:49 am
No comment on the plan?

Havenít given it tons of thought but I actually think it sounds good. The paranoid part of me wants to suss out how itís beneficial for scum!you to do this but first take is that it doesnít and I think finding cops sanity is really beneficial if the plan in fact accomplished that.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Awaclus on August 23, 2018, 08:43:41 am
We don't know if a cop can target himself (normally, I would assume no but the wording in the PM doesn't make it clear), so having one of the cops be the agreed upon target for investigation could ruin it, and having one of the insane cops killed would ruin it.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Joseph2302 on August 23, 2018, 09:03:40 am
Hi all, I'm the SK
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Joseph2302 on August 23, 2018, 09:08:00 am
No, actually, vote: DatSwan. I am all for cop claims D2 targeting the same person N1.
Sounds like a sensible enough idea. It's the best (possibly only) decent info we can get this game
If we know the sanities it makes cops so much more useful for us
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Joseph2302 on August 23, 2018, 09:08:35 am
LaLight seems towny right now IMO
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: faust on August 23, 2018, 10:08:29 am
We don't know if a cop can target himself (normally, I would assume no but the wording in the PM doesn't make it clear), so having one of the cops be the agreed upon target for investigation could ruin it, and having one of the insane cops killed would ruin it.
Yes, this is why I claimed not Cop. I will be the target. I also have a backup plan for the death of a Cop, but I don't think I want to talk about it today. Suffice to say I should still be checked if a Cop dies.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Awaclus on August 23, 2018, 10:25:58 am
We don't know if a cop can target himself (normally, I would assume no but the wording in the PM doesn't make it clear), so having one of the cops be the agreed upon target for investigation could ruin it, and having one of the insane cops killed would ruin it.
Yes, this is why I claimed not Cop. I will be the target. I also have a backup plan for the death of a Cop, but I don't think I want to talk about it today. Suffice to say I should still be checked if a Cop dies.

Oh, I see.

What if scum fakeclaims cop with the sane cop's result, wouldn't that also mess up the plan? We wouldn't know who is sane and who isn't, since there's an equal number of both results, and it is a very safe fakeclaim for scum.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: pingpongsam on August 23, 2018, 10:31:54 am
In my mind there are no cops. We essentially just have some goons to find and a bunch of town distractors are going to try to muck with that effort.

I am not a Cop
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: faust on August 23, 2018, 10:35:59 am
In my mind there are no cops. We essentially just have some goons to find and a bunch of town distractors are going to try to muck with that effort.

I am not a Cop
What on earth are you doing?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: faust on August 23, 2018, 10:36:19 am
Vote: PPS
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: faust on August 23, 2018, 10:37:02 am
(Must be a new record for having placed votes on both Galzria and PPS)
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: pingpongsam on August 23, 2018, 10:39:04 am
What about that was scummy, even a little?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: faust on August 23, 2018, 10:39:44 am
What about that was scummy, even a little?
You claiming something for no discernible reason is always scummy.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: pingpongsam on August 23, 2018, 10:45:59 am
What about that was scummy, even a little?
You claiming something for no discernible reason is always scummy.

I pretty much always claim something. I rarely to never have discernible reasons. That said, you voting me has no meaningful indication, either.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: pingpongsam on August 23, 2018, 10:46:34 am
I forgot the important bit: We need to have a valid investigation target that is not a Cop. I am not a Cop.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: faust on August 23, 2018, 10:53:33 am
I forgot the important bit: We need to have a valid investigation target that is not a Cop. I am not a Cop.
Is there a reason for you quoting this?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on August 23, 2018, 10:54:31 am
I like this plan because it also means faust wonít die N1
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: pingpongsam on August 23, 2018, 10:54:59 am
I forgot the important bit: We need to have a valid investigation target that is not a Cop. I am not a Cop.
Is there a reason for you quoting this?

Is there a good reason to vote me for doing the exact same thing you did?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: faust on August 23, 2018, 10:55:26 am
I like this plan because it also means faust wonít die N1
So you want to die N1?  ;)
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: mcmcsalot on August 23, 2018, 10:56:22 am
vote: pps
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: faust on August 23, 2018, 10:57:04 am
I forgot the important bit: We need to have a valid investigation target that is not a Cop. I am not a Cop.
Is there a reason for you quoting this?

Is there a good reason to vote me for doing the exact same thing you did?
My claiming this is part of my plan. It is completely unnecessary and even harmful for my plan to have more than one non-Cop claim. So you did not do the exact same thing I did. You did something stupid and pointless that helps scum subvert a plan that might be dangerous to them. You are scum.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Dsell on August 23, 2018, 10:59:36 am
PPS that was very bad.

NO ONE ELSE SHOULD CLAIM TODAY.

Faust is very town. PPS could be bad town but it was anti-town, no doubt.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Dsell on August 23, 2018, 11:07:33 am
We don't know if a cop can target himself (normally, I would assume no but the wording in the PM doesn't make it clear), so having one of the cops be the agreed upon target for investigation could ruin it, and having one of the insane cops killed would ruin it.
Yes, this is why I claimed not Cop. I will be the target. I also have a backup plan for the death of a Cop, but I don't think I want to talk about it today. Suffice to say I should still be checked if a Cop dies.

Oh, I see.

What if scum fakeclaims cop with the sane cop's result, wouldn't that also mess up the plan? We wouldn't know who is sane and who isn't, since there's an equal number of both results, and it is a very safe fakeclaim for scum.

Hey, I'm hoping you mean that scum would fakeclaim with the insane cop's results to create an equal number. There are 2 sane cops and 1 insane cop. So it wouldn't be equal if they claimed sane, it'd be 3-1.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Awaclus on August 23, 2018, 11:39:30 am
We don't know if a cop can target himself (normally, I would assume no but the wording in the PM doesn't make it clear), so having one of the cops be the agreed upon target for investigation could ruin it, and having one of the insane cops killed would ruin it.
Yes, this is why I claimed not Cop. I will be the target. I also have a backup plan for the death of a Cop, but I don't think I want to talk about it today. Suffice to say I should still be checked if a Cop dies.

Oh, I see.

What if scum fakeclaims cop with the sane cop's result, wouldn't that also mess up the plan? We wouldn't know who is sane and who isn't, since there's an equal number of both results, and it is a very safe fakeclaim for scum.

Hey, I'm hoping you mean that scum would fakeclaim with the insane cop's results to create an equal number. There are 2 sane cops and 1 insane cop. So it wouldn't be equal if they claimed sane, it'd be 3-1.

...yeah. I misread the setup to be 2 insane, 1 sane.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Galzria on August 23, 2018, 11:59:36 am
We don't know if a cop can target himself (normally, I would assume no but the wording in the PM doesn't make it clear), so having one of the cops be the agreed upon target for investigation could ruin it, and having one of the insane cops killed would ruin it.
Yes, this is why I claimed not Cop. I will be the target. I also have a backup plan for the death of a Cop, but I don't think I want to talk about it today. Suffice to say I should still be checked if a Cop dies.

Oh, I see.

What if scum fakeclaims cop with the sane cop's result, wouldn't that also mess up the plan? We wouldn't know who is sane and who isn't, since there's an equal number of both results, and it is a very safe fakeclaim for scum.

Hey, I'm hoping you mean that scum would fakeclaim with the insane cop's results to create an equal number. There are 2 sane cops and 1 insane cop. So it wouldn't be equal if they claimed sane, it'd be 3-1.

...yeah. I misread the setup to be 2 insane, 1 sane.

Also, if faust is scum, then the results will come back:

Guilty, Guilty, Not-Guilty

Yeah? Same as if, say, faust were town and framed by scum. This would be relevant because traitor, in particular, could claim not guilty and tell scum 50/50 who he is, without telling town anything extra because we don't know if faust is scum, or framed town.

Basically, the point is that scum know faust's alignment (assuming he's not traitor), and if he's town whether or not he's been framed. This makes traitor claiming the missing result a guaranteed 50/50 knowledge for scum....

Am I wrong or missing something?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Dsell on August 23, 2018, 11:59:58 am
My stupidly silly, early reads list:

1. Lalight - towny
2. Galzria - scum
3. Awaclus - null, but read the setup bruh
4. e - null
5. McMcsalot - null
6. Robz888 - get your ass in here
7. Joseph2302 - null
8. Hydrad - slight scummy
9. Dsell - IC :-*
10. gkrieg13 - slightly towny possibly? mostly null
11. DatSwan - null
12. faust - very town
13. pingpongsam - bad, possibly bad town
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Dsell on August 23, 2018, 12:06:15 pm
We don't know if a cop can target himself (normally, I would assume no but the wording in the PM doesn't make it clear), so having one of the cops be the agreed upon target for investigation could ruin it, and having one of the insane cops killed would ruin it.
Yes, this is why I claimed not Cop. I will be the target. I also have a backup plan for the death of a Cop, but I don't think I want to talk about it today. Suffice to say I should still be checked if a Cop dies.

Oh, I see.

What if scum fakeclaims cop with the sane cop's result, wouldn't that also mess up the plan? We wouldn't know who is sane and who isn't, since there's an equal number of both results, and it is a very safe fakeclaim for scum.

Hey, I'm hoping you mean that scum would fakeclaim with the insane cop's results to create an equal number. There are 2 sane cops and 1 insane cop. So it wouldn't be equal if they claimed sane, it'd be 3-1.

...yeah. I misread the setup to be 2 insane, 1 sane.

Also, if faust is scum, then the results will come back:

Guilty, Guilty, Not-Guilty

Yeah? Same as if, say, faust were town and framed by scum. This would be relevant because traitor, in particular, could claim not guilty and tell scum 50/50 who he is, without telling town anything extra because we don't know if faust is scum, or framed town.

Basically, the point is that scum know faust's alignment (assuming he's not traitor), and if he's town whether or not he's been framed. This makes traitor claiming the missing result a guaranteed 50/50 knowledge for scum....

Am I wrong or missing something?

You are missing something that makes this more favorable for town than you make it seem, but I don't want to talk about it.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Galzria on August 23, 2018, 12:41:33 pm
We don't know if a cop can target himself (normally, I would assume no but the wording in the PM doesn't make it clear), so having one of the cops be the agreed upon target for investigation could ruin it, and having one of the insane cops killed would ruin it.
Yes, this is why I claimed not Cop. I will be the target. I also have a backup plan for the death of a Cop, but I don't think I want to talk about it today. Suffice to say I should still be checked if a Cop dies.

Oh, I see.

What if scum fakeclaims cop with the sane cop's result, wouldn't that also mess up the plan? We wouldn't know who is sane and who isn't, since there's an equal number of both results, and it is a very safe fakeclaim for scum.

Hey, I'm hoping you mean that scum would fakeclaim with the insane cop's results to create an equal number. There are 2 sane cops and 1 insane cop. So it wouldn't be equal if they claimed sane, it'd be 3-1.

...yeah. I misread the setup to be 2 insane, 1 sane.

Also, if faust is scum, then the results will come back:

Guilty, Guilty, Not-Guilty

Yeah? Same as if, say, faust were town and framed by scum. This would be relevant because traitor, in particular, could claim not guilty and tell scum 50/50 who he is, without telling town anything extra because we don't know if faust is scum, or framed town.

Basically, the point is that scum know faust's alignment (assuming he's not traitor), and if he's town whether or not he's been framed. This makes traitor claiming the missing result a guaranteed 50/50 knowledge for scum....

Am I wrong or missing something?

You are missing something that makes this more favorable for town than you make it seem, but I don't want to talk about it.

I don't believe that I am, actually. To that point, and because I'm leaning towards this plan being more beneficial to scum due to the ability to safely fakeclaim in without telling town anything more than "There's 1 scum in 4 players", your post reads like scum trying to keep a pro!scum plan afloat by claiming it's really a townie plan, without backing up or supporting your argument.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Galzria on August 23, 2018, 12:46:06 pm
We don't know if a cop can target himself (normally, I would assume no but the wording in the PM doesn't make it clear), so having one of the cops be the agreed upon target for investigation could ruin it, and having one of the insane cops killed would ruin it.
Yes, this is why I claimed not Cop. I will be the target. I also have a backup plan for the death of a Cop, but I don't think I want to talk about it today. Suffice to say I should still be checked if a Cop dies.

Oh, I see.

What if scum fakeclaims cop with the sane cop's result, wouldn't that also mess up the plan? We wouldn't know who is sane and who isn't, since there's an equal number of both results, and it is a very safe fakeclaim for scum.

Hey, I'm hoping you mean that scum would fakeclaim with the insane cop's results to create an equal number. There are 2 sane cops and 1 insane cop. So it wouldn't be equal if they claimed sane, it'd be 3-1.

...yeah. I misread the setup to be 2 insane, 1 sane.

Also, if faust is scum, then the results will come back:

Guilty, Guilty, Not-Guilty

Yeah? Same as if, say, faust were town and framed by scum. This would be relevant because traitor, in particular, could claim not guilty and tell scum 50/50 who he is, without telling town anything extra because we don't know if faust is scum, or framed town.

Basically, the point is that scum know faust's alignment (assuming he's not traitor), and if he's town whether or not he's been framed. This makes traitor claiming the missing result a guaranteed 50/50 knowledge for scum....

Am I wrong or missing something?

You are missing something that makes this more favorable for town than you make it seem, but I don't want to talk about it.

I don't believe that I am, actually. To that point, and because I'm leaning towards this plan being more beneficial to scum due to the ability to safely fakeclaim in without telling town anything more than "There's 1 scum in 4 players", your post reads like scum trying to keep a pro!scum plan afloat by claiming it's really a townie plan, without backing up or supporting your argument.

More succinctly:

Maybe I am wrong and you are right. But all you've done is state an opinion with no backup or support. Without that, and as I have given reason for the plan to be bad for town, I must be forced to disregard your opinion as irrelevant and without merit.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Dsell on August 23, 2018, 12:51:23 pm
We don't know if a cop can target himself (normally, I would assume no but the wording in the PM doesn't make it clear), so having one of the cops be the agreed upon target for investigation could ruin it, and having one of the insane cops killed would ruin it.
Yes, this is why I claimed not Cop. I will be the target. I also have a backup plan for the death of a Cop, but I don't think I want to talk about it today. Suffice to say I should still be checked if a Cop dies.

Oh, I see.

What if scum fakeclaims cop with the sane cop's result, wouldn't that also mess up the plan? We wouldn't know who is sane and who isn't, since there's an equal number of both results, and it is a very safe fakeclaim for scum.

Hey, I'm hoping you mean that scum would fakeclaim with the insane cop's results to create an equal number. There are 2 sane cops and 1 insane cop. So it wouldn't be equal if they claimed sane, it'd be 3-1.

...yeah. I misread the setup to be 2 insane, 1 sane.

Also, if faust is scum, then the results will come back:

Guilty, Guilty, Not-Guilty

Yeah? Same as if, say, faust were town and framed by scum. This would be relevant because traitor, in particular, could claim not guilty and tell scum 50/50 who he is, without telling town anything extra because we don't know if faust is scum, or framed town.

Basically, the point is that scum know faust's alignment (assuming he's not traitor), and if he's town whether or not he's been framed. This makes traitor claiming the missing result a guaranteed 50/50 knowledge for scum....

Am I wrong or missing something?

You are missing something that makes this more favorable for town than you make it seem, but I don't want to talk about it.

I don't believe that I am, actually. To that point, and because I'm leaning towards this plan being more beneficial to scum due to the ability to safely fakeclaim in without telling town anything more than "There's 1 scum in 4 players", your post reads like scum trying to keep a pro!scum plan afloat by claiming it's really a townie plan, without backing up or supporting your argument.

And your post reads like directing the traitor.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Galzria on August 23, 2018, 12:56:27 pm
We don't know if a cop can target himself (normally, I would assume no but the wording in the PM doesn't make it clear), so having one of the cops be the agreed upon target for investigation could ruin it, and having one of the insane cops killed would ruin it.
Yes, this is why I claimed not Cop. I will be the target. I also have a backup plan for the death of a Cop, but I don't think I want to talk about it today. Suffice to say I should still be checked if a Cop dies.

Oh, I see.

What if scum fakeclaims cop with the sane cop's result, wouldn't that also mess up the plan? We wouldn't know who is sane and who isn't, since there's an equal number of both results, and it is a very safe fakeclaim for scum.

Hey, I'm hoping you mean that scum would fakeclaim with the insane cop's results to create an equal number. There are 2 sane cops and 1 insane cop. So it wouldn't be equal if they claimed sane, it'd be 3-1.

...yeah. I misread the setup to be 2 insane, 1 sane.

Also, if faust is scum, then the results will come back:

Guilty, Guilty, Not-Guilty

Yeah? Same as if, say, faust were town and framed by scum. This would be relevant because traitor, in particular, could claim not guilty and tell scum 50/50 who he is, without telling town anything extra because we don't know if faust is scum, or framed town.

Basically, the point is that scum know faust's alignment (assuming he's not traitor), and if he's town whether or not he's been framed. This makes traitor claiming the missing result a guaranteed 50/50 knowledge for scum....

Am I wrong or missing something?

You are missing something that makes this more favorable for town than you make it seem, but I don't want to talk about it.

I don't believe that I am, actually. To that point, and because I'm leaning towards this plan being more beneficial to scum due to the ability to safely fakeclaim in without telling town anything more than "There's 1 scum in 4 players", your post reads like scum trying to keep a pro!scum plan afloat by claiming it's really a townie plan, without backing up or supporting your argument.

And your post reads like directing the traitor.

Only if we do the plan, which I'm advocating we do not, and therefore your point doesn't parse.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: faust on August 23, 2018, 12:59:35 pm
Only if we do the plan, which I'm advocating we do not, and therefore your point doesn't parse.
What do you suggest we do instead?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Galzria on August 23, 2018, 01:27:01 pm
Only if we do the plan, which I'm advocating we do not, and therefore your point doesn't parse.
What do you suggest we do instead?

I don't know that coordinating anything D1 is the best possible solution. Not all setups are solvable to the exclusive benefit of town - in fact I would say that most are not, and should not, be so.

Your plan may be marginally better for town - I don't know. I know that I can see obvious upsides to it for scum, in ways that don't help town. I'm not convinced that the knowledge of town Cops being 3/4 players is worth the tradeoff that scum gets. Unfortunately we DON'T get the knowledge of which cops are sane and which are not based on this plan. At least, not at first. We might be able to piece it together based off flips down the line, but is that better than regular, interaction based scum hunting?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: faust on August 23, 2018, 01:37:47 pm
is that better than regular, interaction based scum hunting?
I don't see where in my plan I suggested to stop scumhunting.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: LaLight on August 23, 2018, 01:40:40 pm
Only if we do the plan, which I'm advocating we do not, and therefore your point doesn't parse.
What do you suggest we do instead?

I don't know that coordinating anything D1 is the best possible solution. Not all setups are solvable to the exclusive benefit of town - in fact I would say that most are not, and should not, be so.

Your plan may be marginally better for town - I don't know. I know that I can see obvious upsides to it for scum, in ways that don't help town. I'm not convinced that the knowledge of town Cops being 3/4 players is worth the tradeoff that scum gets. Unfortunately we DON'T get the knowledge of which cops are sane and which are not based on this plan. At least, not at first. We might be able to piece it together based off flips down the line, but is that better than regular, interaction based scum hunting?

Galzria, do you understand, that having 3 town in 4 players is better than having hundred not verifiable chaotic claims throughout the game? Say, 4 players claim scum. We take the most scummy (we still have, like, reads) and lynch him. Weíll have at least two ics which is better than just having cops with non-meaningful results after, cause this means nothing.

vote: Galzria, directing a traitor is exactly what youíre doing. Not even mentioning the i completely forgot traitor exists.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Dsell on August 23, 2018, 01:44:19 pm
I want to put it out there that I'm not 100% insistent on the cop plan going forward. This setup is new to me and there are definitely a lot of variables - galz is right about that. However, I do give faust some credit for coming up with it - it does seem pretty pro-town to me.

@Galz - I see no reason why we can't do both regular scum hunting as well as some analysis of the setup and roles. More info is generally better.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Galzria on August 23, 2018, 01:49:20 pm
is that better than regular, interaction based scum hunting?
I don't see where in my plan I suggested to stop scumhunting.

I didn't mean to imply that you did, sorry. A better finish to the line should be:

"We might be able to piece it together based off flips down the line, but even that isn't certain as the framing nature of scum's ability could play havoc".

I mean, let's assume you're killed tonight and flip town: 2 results each are claimed finding you guilty & not guilty. We don't know which is sane and which isn't, as we don't know if you've been framed or not.

Scum knows though, and assuming it's the traitor that claimed the fake result, they know the traitor is one of two people...

And, actually, we can't piece anything together later as cop sanity doesn't flip, so... yeah, I see no upside at all.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Joseph2302 on August 23, 2018, 01:52:24 pm
In my mind there are no cops. We essentially just have some goons to find and a bunch of town distractors are going to try to muck with that effort.

I am not a Cop
What on earth are you doing?
Yes this is stupid. Limiting down the not cops will only help scum find the cops
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Joseph2302 on August 23, 2018, 01:53:18 pm
Vote: PPS
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on August 23, 2018, 01:53:25 pm
We don't know if a cop can target himself (normally, I would assume no but the wording in the PM doesn't make it clear), so having one of the cops be the agreed upon target for investigation could ruin it, and having one of the insane cops killed would ruin it.
Yes, this is why I claimed not Cop. I will be the target. I also have a backup plan for the death of a Cop, but I don't think I want to talk about it today. Suffice to say I should still be checked if a Cop dies.

Oh, I see.

What if scum fakeclaims cop with the sane cop's result, wouldn't that also mess up the plan? We wouldn't know who is sane and who isn't, since there's an equal number of both results, and it is a very safe fakeclaim for scum.

Hey, I'm hoping you mean that scum would fakeclaim with the insane cop's results to create an equal number. There are 2 sane cops and 1 insane cop. So it wouldn't be equal if they claimed sane, it'd be 3-1.

...yeah. I misread the setup to be 2 insane, 1 sane.

Also, if faust is scum, then the results will come back:

Guilty, Guilty, Not-Guilty

Yeah? Same as if, say, faust were town and framed by scum. This would be relevant because traitor, in particular, could claim not guilty and tell scum 50/50 who he is, without telling town anything extra because we don't know if faust is scum, or framed town.

Basically, the point is that scum know faust's alignment (assuming he's not traitor), and if he's town whether or not he's been framed. This makes traitor claiming the missing result a guaranteed 50/50 knowledge for scum....

Am I wrong or missing something?

But, once faust flips, we would know for sure the sanity of all three cops.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on August 23, 2018, 01:54:48 pm
I like this plan because it also means faust wonít die N1
So you want to die N1?  ;)

 :'(
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on August 23, 2018, 01:55:43 pm
BTW, this is town LaLight.

I also want to lynch Joseph real bad, so probably town there too.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Galzria on August 23, 2018, 02:04:59 pm
We don't know if a cop can target himself (normally, I would assume no but the wording in the PM doesn't make it clear), so having one of the cops be the agreed upon target for investigation could ruin it, and having one of the insane cops killed would ruin it.
Yes, this is why I claimed not Cop. I will be the target. I also have a backup plan for the death of a Cop, but I don't think I want to talk about it today. Suffice to say I should still be checked if a Cop dies.

Oh, I see.

What if scum fakeclaims cop with the sane cop's result, wouldn't that also mess up the plan? We wouldn't know who is sane and who isn't, since there's an equal number of both results, and it is a very safe fakeclaim for scum.

Hey, I'm hoping you mean that scum would fakeclaim with the insane cop's results to create an equal number. There are 2 sane cops and 1 insane cop. So it wouldn't be equal if they claimed sane, it'd be 3-1.

...yeah. I misread the setup to be 2 insane, 1 sane.

Also, if faust is scum, then the results will come back:

Guilty, Guilty, Not-Guilty

Yeah? Same as if, say, faust were town and framed by scum. This would be relevant because traitor, in particular, could claim not guilty and tell scum 50/50 who he is, without telling town anything extra because we don't know if faust is scum, or framed town.

Basically, the point is that scum know faust's alignment (assuming he's not traitor), and if he's town whether or not he's been framed. This makes traitor claiming the missing result a guaranteed 50/50 knowledge for scum....

Am I wrong or missing something?

But, once faust flips, we would know for sure the sanity of all three cops.

Not if he's town, he could be framed. We would know only if he flipped scum.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: faust on August 23, 2018, 02:10:58 pm
I mean, let's assume you're killed tonight and flip town: 2 results each are claimed finding you guilty & not guilty. We don't know which is sane and which isn't, as we don't know if you've been framed or not.

Scum knows though, and assuming it's the traitor that claimed the fake result, they know the traitor is one of two people...
How would the Traitor know what to claim in your scenario?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Hydrad on August 23, 2018, 02:11:16 pm
Am I missing something? We have 3 cops. 2 are sane one is not. So it doesn't matter if Faust is framed or not as long as a cop doesn't get night killed n1 two people will match their claim and know that they are sane. The only wrench is if scum fakeclaims but once we find scum in that group of cops we once again know what cops are sane. And also once we know what cops are sane even the Insane cop is useful since he knows he's insane and will still get results.

I think the Faust plan is very pro town
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Robz888 on August 23, 2018, 02:16:32 pm
Yeah, I'm wildly in favor of the faust plan, thanks also to PPS for essentially volunteering to be the Day 1 lynch, Vote: PPS.

I second the popular opinion that LL is town.

I'm not willing to say that Galz opposing the plan is scummy, though, I think town!Galz often reaches conclusions that are out of step with other townies.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Galzria on August 23, 2018, 02:24:19 pm
I mean, let's assume you're killed tonight and flip town: 2 results each are claimed finding you guilty & not guilty. We don't know which is sane and which isn't, as we don't know if you've been framed or not.

Scum knows though, and assuming it's the traitor that claimed the fake result, they know the traitor is one of two people...
How would the Traitor know what to claim in your scenario?

Because there are always 2 results one way, and 1 result the other way.

And the traitor doesn't even have to wait to claim - he can claim anyone he wants. If he guesses right early, it's a 2-2 result split, telling us nothing. If he guesses wrong early it's a 3-1 split, which, advantage town, DOES tell us who is Sane and who is not, and gives us a 1-in-3 scum ratio  instead of 1-in-4, which is essentially the same as random.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Galzria on August 23, 2018, 02:26:39 pm
Am I missing something? We have 3 cops. 2 are sane one is not. So it doesn't matter if Faust is framed or not as long as a cop doesn't get night killed n1 two people will match their claim and know that they are sane. The only wrench is if scum fakeclaims but once we find scum in that group of cops we once again know what cops are sane. And also once we know what cops are sane even the Insane cop is useful since he knows he's insane and will still get results.

I think the Faust plan is very pro town

"Once we find the scum in that group"

How would you suggest we go about that? 1-in-4 is pretty much equal to random lynching now. Would you suggest we start lynching the cops looking for the scum one?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Galzria on August 23, 2018, 02:28:43 pm
Is PPS at 4 votes?

VC please
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: faust on August 23, 2018, 02:28:49 pm
I mean, let's assume you're killed tonight and flip town: 2 results each are claimed finding you guilty & not guilty. We don't know which is sane and which isn't, as we don't know if you've been framed or not.

Scum knows though, and assuming it's the traitor that claimed the fake result, they know the traitor is one of two people...
How would the Traitor know what to claim in your scenario?

Because there are always 2 results one way, and 1 result the other way.

And the traitor doesn't even have to wait to claim - he can claim anyone he wants. If he guesses right early, it's a 2-2 result split, telling us nothing. If he guesses wrong early it's a 3-1 split, which, advantage town, DOES tell us who is Sane and who is not, and gives us a 1-in-3 scum ratio  instead of 1-in-4, which is essentially the same as random.
It also gives us an IC Cop and (if I wasn't framed and live) an IC me. I'll take those chances.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: mcmcsalot on August 23, 2018, 02:30:14 pm
I see and understand galzís concern and I still think the plan is beneficial
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: 2.71828..... on August 23, 2018, 02:30:23 pm
Lots of stuff that I have read, can post more in depth about it later, but I agree with faust's plan.

I may also be in favor of no lynching, but need to think a bit more on that
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Awaclus on August 23, 2018, 02:37:18 pm
The only wrench is if scum fakeclaims but once we find scum in that group of cops we once again know what cops are sane.

Yeah, the problem with that is that it isn't trivial to find 1 scum in a group of 4 people.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Robz888 on August 23, 2018, 02:37:28 pm
I would be sort of in favor of quick lynching PPS, actually. Take that, long day 1's!
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Hydrad on August 23, 2018, 02:38:29 pm
We can also have cops claim every day and the day the scum guesses wrong suddenly it's not 1-4 anymore. I guess there is a chance he could keep getting it right but I wouldn't want to be that scum if we decide to do that
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Dsell on August 23, 2018, 02:43:13 pm
I am really not sure the PPS slip was a scum slip. It's limiting future fakeclaims later if he is scum. It seems like it was really unthinking, which feels slightly more town. Dumb move, but it's not a lynch I love.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Galzria on August 23, 2018, 02:48:39 pm
vote: Robz
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Robz888 on August 23, 2018, 03:01:16 pm
I am really not sure the PPS slip was a scum slip. It's limiting future fakeclaims later if he is scum. It seems like it was really unthinking, which feels slightly more town. Dumb move, but it's not a lynch I love.

Well, you should be be aware of this: PPS has done some weird claim things as scum.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Robz888 on August 23, 2018, 03:01:52 pm
vote: Robz

But I didn't even claim to be a weird hybrid third party role that's trying to work with town...
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: faust on August 23, 2018, 03:03:38 pm
I am really not sure the PPS slip was a scum slip. It's limiting future fakeclaims later if he is scum. It seems like it was really unthinking, which feels slightly more town. Dumb move, but it's not a lynch I love.

Well, you should be be aware of this: PPS has done some weird claim things as scum.

This QT (https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/pWrriYhDHEthH) is of when I was scum with PPS some games ago. If you read the beginning, it showcases scum!PPS's obsession with claim pretty well.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Robz888 on August 23, 2018, 03:05:46 pm
I am really not sure the PPS slip was a scum slip. It's limiting future fakeclaims later if he is scum. It seems like it was really unthinking, which feels slightly more town. Dumb move, but it's not a lynch I love.

Well, you should be be aware of this: PPS has done some weird claim things as scum.

This QT (https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/pWrriYhDHEthH) is of when I was scum with PPS some games ago. If you read the beginning, it showcases scum!PPS's obsession with claim pretty well.

Indeed, that's precisely the game I was thinking of.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Galzria on August 23, 2018, 03:17:16 pm
I would be sort of in favor of quick lynching PPS, actually. Take that, long day 1's!

unvote

Bleh. Still scummy, but honestly this post does not a case make, and my voting you based solely on this is lazy. My standards are higher than that.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Robz888 on August 23, 2018, 03:22:57 pm
I would be sort of in favor of quick lynching PPS, actually. Take that, long day 1's!

unvote

Bleh. Still scummy, but honestly this post does not a case make, and my voting you based solely on this is lazy. My standards are higher than that.

Yes, backpedal now Galz, yes....
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: LaLight on August 23, 2018, 03:26:00 pm
So we quicklynch pps whoís traitor, lynch Galz, have 3 ICs and just find the third scum. Gg ez
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: LaLight on August 23, 2018, 03:26:16 pm
vote: pps
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Robz888 on August 23, 2018, 03:29:02 pm
Yes, essentially that is the plan
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Galzria on August 23, 2018, 03:30:08 pm
I would be sort of in favor of quick lynching PPS, actually. Take that, long day 1's!

unvote

Bleh. Still scummy, but honestly this post does not a case make, and my voting you based solely on this is lazy. My standards are higher than that.

Yes, backpedal now Galz, yes....

You could do something more useful with your time here than be antagonizing, you know. You already woefully under contribute for how useful you're capable of being.  >:(

/grump
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: pingpongsam on August 23, 2018, 03:49:42 pm
So we quicklynch pps whoís traitor, lynch Galz, have 3 ICs and just find the third scum. Gg ez

Well, I guess I should have clarified although I assumed it was strongly implied: I am not scum, either.

So, yeah, no, but ok, because at least we aren't going to mislynch a PR who's just here to fuck everything up for everyone, anyhow. Let's make sure we keep those guys alive!
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Dsell on August 23, 2018, 03:51:40 pm
I am really not sure the PPS slip was a scum slip. It's limiting future fakeclaims later if he is scum. It seems like it was really unthinking, which feels slightly more town. Dumb move, but it's not a lynch I love.

Well, you should be be aware of this: PPS has done some weird claim things as scum.

This QT (https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/pWrriYhDHEthH) is of when I was scum with PPS some games ago. If you read the beginning, it showcases scum!PPS's obsession with claim pretty well.

Indeed, that's precisely the game I was thinking of.

This is unfortunate. (also, reading the quicktopic - was this sexism mafia or something?) I rescind any town points I gave. PPS even specifically said that as scum he enjoys putting suspicion on himself D1.

PPE: PPS the best thing you can do to keep them alive is to keep as much mystery surrounding who they might be and you absolutely know that
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: pingpongsam on August 23, 2018, 03:55:16 pm
I am really not sure the PPS slip was a scum slip. It's limiting future fakeclaims later if he is scum. It seems like it was really unthinking, which feels slightly more town. Dumb move, but it's not a lynch I love.

Well, you should be be aware of this: PPS has done some weird claim things as scum.

This QT (https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/pWrriYhDHEthH) is of when I was scum with PPS some games ago. If you read the beginning, it showcases scum!PPS's obsession with claim pretty well.

Indeed, that's precisely the game I was thinking of.

This is unfortunate. (also, reading the quicktopic - was this sexism mafia or something?) I rescind any town points I gave. PPS even specifically said that as scum he enjoys putting suspicion on himself D1.

PPE: PPS the best thing you can do to keep them alive is to keep as much mystery surrounding who they might be and you absolutely know that

You assume I'm not lying town or maybe I am mafia and I am truthful in claiming to not be a cop (which can equally be true for faust). It's fine, I've grown accustomed to being punished for playing against some presupposed script. I'm the clear D1 lynch so there's no real point in arguing that I haven't somehow forced a mod confirmed outing of anything at this point.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: pingpongsam on August 23, 2018, 03:58:17 pm
The general gist of this line of play is to make it quite clear that i am town because, well, I'm really not this idiotic as scum, at least not in this particular way.. that special sort of idiocy applies to getting out of some slip or something. If I convince the majority I am, in fact town, not only do I avoid getting lynched but I setup as a convenient NK on the weak wifom of not being a cop but clearly town.

But, I suppose the best convincing I am town is to flip town.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: iguanaiguana on August 23, 2018, 05:22:52 pm
Palouse Falls
(http://nwtravelmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Daytripping-Washington-2-credit-Dreamtime.jpg)

Vote count 1.1
Lalight (1): Awaclus
gkrieg13 (1): Hydrad
pingpongsam (5): faust, McMcsalot, Joseph2302, Robz888, Lalight

not voting (6): 2.71828..., Dsell, gkrieg13, DatSwan, pingpongsam, Galzria

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends, Wednesday, August 29, 2018, 05:30:00 pm

Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Dsell on August 23, 2018, 05:23:52 pm
Palouse Falls
(http://nwtravelmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Daytripping-Washington-2-credit-Dreamtime.jpg)

I like this!!!
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Robz888 on August 23, 2018, 05:26:06 pm
FOS: Those who have not yet voted for PPS.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on August 23, 2018, 05:36:33 pm
vote: PPS

L-1
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: iguanaiguana on August 23, 2018, 05:50:08 pm
Ramona Falls
(https://assets3.roadtrippers.com/uploads/blog_post_section/attachment/image/176552/blog_post_section/attachment-image-02e7182e-9ade-4d2a-97f2-509e98388857.jpg)

Vote count 1.2
Lalight (1): Awaclus
gkrieg13 (1): Hydrad
pingpongsam (6): faust, McMcsalot, Joseph2302, Robz888, Lalight, gkrieg13 (L-1)

not voting (5): 2.71828..., Dsell, DatSwan, pingpongsam, Galzria

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends, Wednesday, August 29, 2018, 05:30:00 pm
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: 2.71828..... on August 23, 2018, 05:59:01 pm
vote: PPS
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: iguanaiguana on August 23, 2018, 06:04:20 pm
Toketee Falls
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/890/41238363762_7d8809bd35_b.jpg)

Day 1 final vote count
Lalight (1): Awaclus
gkrieg13 (1): Hydrad
pingpongsam (7): faust, McMcsalot, Joseph2302, Robz888, Lalight, gkrieg13, 2.71828...

not voting (4): Dsell, DatSwan, pingpongsam, Galzria

With 13 alive, it took 7 to lynch.

Thread Locked!
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: iguanaiguana on August 23, 2018, 06:15:53 pm
In 2004, Forks, Washington was a sleepy, forgotten town on the north side of the Olympic Mountains. Separated from Seattle by snow caps, the citizens of Forks faced steadily declining lumber prices, and many felt they had little choice but to move the city. When they were "saved" by Stephenie Meyer choosing Forks for the setting of the Twilight saga, one could also argue that they lost the dignified death they were due. These days, Forks is overrun by Twilight Fans, not only from Seattle and Portland but from all over the world. Forks embraces them, because what choice do they have?

pingpongsam was Forks, a vanilla town.

Night one starts now and ends Saturday, August 25, 2018, 06:00:00 pm Night actions are due August 25, 2018, 10:00:00 am
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: iguanaiguana on August 25, 2018, 05:36:56 pm
Roughly halfway between Seattle and Portland was never a good place for Longview. The only question was whether the sea would rise quickly enough in order to swallow up Seattle before Seattle and Portland could both swallow up Longview.

Alas, it didn't work out that way. Seattle and Portland expanded along the Pacific coast until Longview was indistinguishable from either of them. Soon, only the historians knew what this town used to be called.


faust has died in the night. He was Longview, a vanilla town.

Day 2 starts now!

Vote count 2.0

not voting (11): Lalight, Galzria, Awaclus, 2.71828..., McMcsalot, Robz888, Joseph2302, Hydrad, Dsell, gkrieg13, DatSwan

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 1 ends, Saturday, September 01, 2018, 05:30:00 pm

Thread unlocked!
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Dsell on August 25, 2018, 05:43:43 pm
Y'all quicklynched ON MY DRIVE HOME. Quicklynches have ALWAYS been a bad idea? Is this where 4 years of mafia experience have led? That was a bad quicklynch.

Annoyed at Robz for suggesting, annoyed at e for hammering.

Gkrieg, why did you think an immediate lynch was a good idea?

Tbh I'm still suspicious of Galz - he got off the wagon which he may have known would eventually come under a lot of scrutiny.

Iguana I really love waterfalls so thank you for those.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on August 25, 2018, 05:48:00 pm
I just really wish we had more time to discuss a cop plan, if there was going to be one. As it stands, IF all the cops investigated Faust I do think they should claim, but of course we can't know if they all did without people claiming. We're in a frustrating position and it's the quicklynchers' fault.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Dsell on August 25, 2018, 05:52:29 pm
FOS: Those who have not yet voted for PPS.

Robz, why would you say this? The evidence was not overwhelming. A prior history of scumslips does not mean that claiming VT early in the game is a scumslip. I understand he'd made mistakes in this and past games but that doesn't mean that every mistake = scum. This felt very Morgrim to me.

And I demand an explanation for why you wanted to do it fast, asap, with no further discussion.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Robz888 on August 25, 2018, 06:02:55 pm
FOS: Those who have not yet voted for PPS.

Robz, why would you say this? The evidence was not overwhelming. A prior history of scumslips does not mean that claiming VT early in the game is a scumslip. I understand he'd made mistakes in this and past games but that doesn't mean that every mistake = scum. This felt very Morgrim to me.

And I demand an explanation for why you wanted to do it fast, asap, with no further discussion.

Well, I was joking about the finger of suspicion.

Actually, quick lynches are sometimes good, we have had some success there. My thinking has been that  as day one goes on, scum can always position themselves to be okay, and so a quicker semi random lynch short circuits that. Also I was getting a scummy vibe from pps, weird claim stuff makes me think of scum pps, and also we had a plan in place. So actually I felt pretty good about it, though I wish he had been scum.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Robz888 on August 25, 2018, 06:03:50 pm
And I wanted to shake things up from the drawn out by the books day 1 that we have had some frequently lately, to no avail.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Hydrad on August 25, 2018, 06:06:25 pm
oh look faust is dead. unfortunate.

I am still super wanting to continue with the plan though. I think we should make a claiming list somehow. (idc how really) and have people claim if they are cops or not. then if there is an extra cop or 2 or whatever randomly mix them around and have them claim results so that scum can't just easily claim last and get the hardest scenario for us to deal with.

I still think cops claiming is the correct choice even if they all didn't target faust but I'm hoping they all did.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Hydrad on August 25, 2018, 06:07:31 pm
I'll also say Dsell. Quicklynches are not the norm for sure. but they do happen randomly sometimes.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on August 25, 2018, 06:08:00 pm
I am going to be gone for ~5ish hours but I really want answers from those I called out in my first couple posts. Thanks, Robz. This felt really icky to me but I appreciate hearing your reasoning.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Awaclus on August 25, 2018, 06:13:19 pm
oh look faust is dead. unfortunate.

I am still super wanting to continue with the plan though. I think we should make a claiming list somehow. (idc how really) and have people claim if they are cops or not. then if there is an extra cop or 2 or whatever randomly mix them around and have them claim results so that scum can't just easily claim last and get the hardest scenario for us to deal with.

I still think cops claiming is the correct choice even if they all didn't target faust but I'm hoping they all did.

Yeah I'm all for going forward with the plan. It sucks that we only had like a day for discussing the plan and now faust who came up with it is dead.

I guess signup order is the standard way of getting an unbiased claiming list when nobody's an IC.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: 2.71828..... on August 25, 2018, 06:31:35 pm
Y'all quicklynched ON MY DRIVE HOME. Quicklynches have ALWAYS been a bad idea? Is this where 4 years of mafia experience have led? That was a bad quicklynch.

Annoyed at Robz for suggesting, annoyed at e for hammering.

Gkrieg, why did you think an immediate lynch was a good idea?

Tbh I'm still suspicious of Galz - he got off the wagon which he may have known would eventually come under a lot of scrutiny.

Iguana I really love waterfalls so thank you for those.

I know I have had initial gut reads that I second guess over and over and then turn out to be scum in the end after I defend them.  I had the opportunity to force a lynch through based on initial gut reads and I decided to take it.  It definitely changes the dynamic of the game and holds people accountable for their votes.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: 2.71828..... on August 25, 2018, 06:32:36 pm
oh look faust is dead. unfortunate.

I am still super wanting to continue with the plan though. I think we should make a claiming list somehow. (idc how really) and have people claim if they are cops or not. then if there is an extra cop or 2 or whatever randomly mix them around and have them claim results so that scum can't just easily claim last and get the hardest scenario for us to deal with.

I still think cops claiming is the correct choice even if they all didn't target faust but I'm hoping they all did.

Yeah I'm all for going forward with the plan. It sucks that we only had like a day for discussing the plan and now faust who came up with it is dead.

I guess signup order is the standard way of getting an unbiased claiming list when nobody's an IC.

Yeah, we should definitely claim.  I am good with signup order.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on August 25, 2018, 06:59:03 pm
I am not so sure about a claim order. If we let it happen freeform there is a lot of pressure on the traitor if they choose to claim. Claiming early means they could claim the wrong alignment and set up a 3-1. But claiming late puts extra suspicion on them.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on August 25, 2018, 07:00:28 pm
I am not so sure about a claim order. If we let it happen freeform there is a lot of pressure on the traitor if they choose to claim. Claiming early means they could claim the wrong alignment and set up a 3-1. But claiming late puts extra suspicion on them.

If we do claim order, they could randomly, luckily, and safely get to claim 3rd or last, robbing us of information.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Hydrad on August 25, 2018, 07:01:30 pm
I am not so sure about a claim order. If we let it happen freeform there is a lot of pressure on the traitor if they choose to claim. Claiming early means they could claim the wrong alignment and set up a 3-1. But claiming late puts extra suspicion on them.

thats kinda why I was thinking first we just claim cop or VT (or scum). then we do a 2nd claim of results so that if scum jumped in they don't know if they can get an easy alignment claim to confuse us.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on August 25, 2018, 07:04:33 pm
Ok I'm about to be gone for real for like 4 hours but if people start claiming DO NOT ANNOUNCE ANY ALIGNMENT RESULTS ON YOUR TARGET. Yet.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: 2.71828..... on August 25, 2018, 07:22:04 pm
towny vibes from Dsell so far.  His emphatic posts to start the day feel genuine to me.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on August 25, 2018, 07:39:54 pm
Y'all quicklynched ON MY DRIVE HOME. Quicklynches have ALWAYS been a bad idea? Is this where 4 years of mafia experience have led? That was a bad quicklynch.

Annoyed at Robz for suggesting, annoyed at e for hammering.

Gkrieg, why did you think an immediate lynch was a good idea?

Tbh I'm still suspicious of Galz - he got off the wagon which he may have known would eventually come under a lot of scrutiny.

Iguana I really love waterfalls so thank you for those.

I didn't think an immediate lynch was a good idea, I thought we would get some good reactions from people while he was at L-1.  I didn't think that we would get no reactions from a hammer right after.

vote: 2.7
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on August 25, 2018, 07:41:24 pm
I am not so sure about a claim order. If we let it happen freeform there is a lot of pressure on the traitor if they choose to claim. Claiming early means they could claim the wrong alignment and set up a 3-1. But claiming late puts extra suspicion on them.

vote: Dsell
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Joseph2302 on August 25, 2018, 08:50:59 pm
I'm okay with claiming and signup order seems okay to me.
Although it's 2am here so I'm going to bed.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on August 25, 2018, 09:02:50 pm
I am not so sure about a claim order. If we let it happen freeform there is a lot of pressure on the traitor if they choose to claim. Claiming early means they could claim the wrong alignment and set up a 3-1. But claiming late puts extra suspicion on them.

vote: Dsell

Wanna refute my plan instead of auto-voting? This is a trash vote.

(Also this movie has an intermission, which I haven't experienced in a while)
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on August 25, 2018, 09:04:25 pm
Claim order for role claims is fine. I strongly oppose a claim order for supposed cops claiming their alignment results, for reasons I've already given.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on August 25, 2018, 09:19:54 pm
I am not so sure about a claim order. If we let it happen freeform there is a lot of pressure on the traitor if they choose to claim. Claiming early means they could claim the wrong alignment and set up a 3-1. But claiming late puts extra suspicion on them.

vote: Dsell

Wanna refute my plan instead of auto-voting? This is a trash vote.

(Also this movie has an intermission, which I haven't experienced in a while)

Iíll tell you after claiming why you are scum.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Galzria on August 25, 2018, 09:44:35 pm
Popcorn claim? 1st on signup starts (or some other arbitrary person),
 claims, and names the next person to claim and so forth?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Galzria on August 25, 2018, 09:47:05 pm
Tbh I'm still suspicious of Galz - he got off the wagon which he may have known would eventually come under a lot of scrutiny.

Would that be the Gkrieg wagon I was RVS'ing, or the Robz wagon I solo-voted before unvoting because I hadn't bothered to actually make a case?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: DatSwan on August 25, 2018, 10:13:30 pm
ok I am typing something up but first thing that pops to mind is hell no to both Galz and Awaclus ordering ideas and skum points X100 to both for them.

Both 12 and 13 have flipped VT and Awaclus is 3 and Galz is 2 (Awaclus point)
Popcorn is horrible here because it dictates more strength to skum the more players are in the game - and it is Day 2.


Claim should be done in the order of the Sign Ups - but it should be random dice role, obv done in public forum and then we go low to high or high to low. I wanna say that I trust everyone enough not to cheat like a pathetic meaningless POS. But if not, then we should random dice role for a player to be elected to be the random dice roller and then have them role in order - and then still assign low to high or high to low.
Both of these ideas give a more neutral chance. The latter of the ideas has the added value of being able to know who we need to kick if they cheat - though again, I don't think anyone here would.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Dsell on August 25, 2018, 10:17:08 pm
Tbh I'm still suspicious of Galz - he got off the wagon which he may have known would eventually come under a lot of scrutiny.

Would that be the Gkrieg wagon I was RVS'ing, or the Robz wagon I solo-voted before unvoting because I hadn't bothered to actually make a case?

Oh that's my bad, I thought your vote was on PPS, not Robz. Apologies for having that wrong.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Galzria on August 25, 2018, 10:30:10 pm
vote: Datswan
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: DatSwan on August 25, 2018, 10:32:24 pm
Wow the cop claim plan is extremely flawed to be pursued at this point.

FAUST FLIPPED TOWN!!!

So if you are a Cop, assuming you investigated Faust, you got one of the following results:

1) Faust is Town (which he was) - So you are sane.

2) Faust is Skum (which he isn't) - So you are insane.

There is a 0% reason for the cops to claim.

Someone correct me.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: DatSwan on August 25, 2018, 10:33:12 pm
not omgus - Galz isn't this stupid.

Vote: Galz
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Galzria on August 25, 2018, 10:33:47 pm
not omgus - Galz isn't this stupid.

Vote: Galz

Pure OMGUS, actually.

 
Wow the cop claim plan is extremely flawed to be pursued at this point.

FAUST FLIPPED TOWN!!!

So if you are a Cop, assuming you investigated Faust, you got one of the following results:

1) Faust is Town (which he was) - So you are sane.

2) Faust is Skum (which he isn't) - So you are insane.

There is a 0% reason for the cops to claim.

Someone correct me.

You're wrong.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: DatSwan on August 25, 2018, 10:35:21 pm
point out my flaw in logic then
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on August 25, 2018, 10:35:54 pm
Wow the cop claim plan is extremely flawed to be pursued at this point.

FAUST FLIPPED TOWN!!!

So if you are a Cop, assuming you investigated Faust, you got one of the following results:

1) Faust is Town (which he was) - So you are sane.

2) Faust is Skum (which he isn't) - So you are insane.

There is a 0% reason for the cops to claim.

Someone correct me.

Faust could have been framed.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Galzria on August 25, 2018, 10:37:38 pm
Wow the cop claim plan is extremely flawed to be pursued at this point.

FAUST FLIPPED TOWN!!!

So if you are a Cop, assuming you investigated Faust, you got one of the following results:

1) Faust is Town (which he was) - So you are sane.

2) Faust is Skum (which he isn't) - So you are insane.

There is a 0% reason for the cops to claim.

Someone correct me.

Faust could have been framed.

^^^^^
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: DatSwan on August 25, 2018, 10:39:32 pm
actually I am wrong nvm.
But galz voted me based on my post prior to my mistake. What is skummy about my approach to deciding the order Galz?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: DatSwan on August 25, 2018, 10:40:11 pm
Also, still fine with voting Galz. Super more fine with it if we do they claim and they are not a cop.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Galzria on August 25, 2018, 10:41:53 pm
actually I am wrong nvm.
But galz voted me based on my post prior to my mistake. What is skummy about my approach to deciding the order Galz?

A) More people alive favors town, not scum
B) Your method is needlessly complex and is designed to drag out the claiming process by days as we are constantly waiting for players timezones to align over and over.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: DatSwan on August 25, 2018, 10:56:43 pm
A) Wrong. Less people alive, easier to deduce skum after the fact.
B) My method takes like 8 additional seconds.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Galzria on August 25, 2018, 11:10:25 pm
A) Wrong. Less people alive, easier to deduce skum after the fact.
B) My method takes like 8 additional seconds.

Your point is nonsensical. You said that more people alive give scum more strength when it comes to claiming via a popcorn method - this is simply untrue. The greater the ratio of town to scum, the less scum can control the order of claims. Further, you're now claiming something completely different, something unrelated to anything you said in the first post - that the fewer people alive the easier it is deduce scum after the fact.

This is also untrue, as we're going to see 3 claims, maybe 4 in total, and we already know what they are. Cop, Cop, Cop, and maybe Cop. It's not as if scum can fakeclaim something here - the two members of the mafia team will be claiming VT just like every other VT in the game. What order they get to do so in is irrelevant, and any attempt to draw conclusions based on claiming order will ultimately lead to no useful ends. The only player that can reasonably fakeclaim isn't known to anybody but himself, and thus the only thing we want to avoid is that player getting to claim early.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on August 25, 2018, 11:15:21 pm
A) Wrong. Less people alive, easier to deduce skum after the fact.
B) My method takes like 8 additional seconds.

Your point is nonsensical. You said that more people alive give scum more strength when it comes to claiming via a popcorn method - this is simply untrue. The greater the ratio of town to scum, the less scum can control the order of claims. Further, you're now claiming something completely different, something unrelated to anything you said in the first post - that the fewer people alive the easier it is deduce scum after the fact.

This is also untrue, as we're going to see 3 claims, maybe 4 in total, and we already know what they are. Cop, Cop, Cop, and maybe Cop. It's not as if scum can fakeclaim something here - the two members of the mafia team will be claiming VT just like every other VT in the game. What order they get to do so in is irrelevant, and any attempt to draw conclusions based on claiming order will ultimately lead to no useful ends. The only player that can reasonably fakeclaim isn't known to anybody but himself, and thus the only thing we want to avoid is that player getting to claim early.

I endorse this. Especially the last sentence.

Though I will point out, they are dis-incentivized from fake claiming early, since they could mistakenly claim the same thing as the two sane cops.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Galzria on August 25, 2018, 11:25:19 pm
A) Wrong. Less people alive, easier to deduce skum after the fact.
B) My method takes like 8 additional seconds.

Your point is nonsensical. You said that more people alive give scum more strength when it comes to claiming via a popcorn method - this is simply untrue. The greater the ratio of town to scum, the less scum can control the order of claims. Further, you're now claiming something completely different, something unrelated to anything you said in the first post - that the fewer people alive the easier it is deduce scum after the fact.

This is also untrue, as we're going to see 3 claims, maybe 4 in total, and we already know what they are. Cop, Cop, Cop, and maybe Cop. It's not as if scum can fakeclaim something here - the two members of the mafia team will be claiming VT just like every other VT in the game. What order they get to do so in is irrelevant, and any attempt to draw conclusions based on claiming order will ultimately lead to no useful ends. The only player that can reasonably fakeclaim isn't known to anybody but himself, and thus the only thing we want to avoid is that player getting to claim early.

I endorse this. Especially the last sentence.

Though I will point out, they are dis-incentivized from fake claiming early, since they could mistakenly claim the same thing as the two sane cops.

Sorry, my last word was obviously backwards - we don't want them to claim LATE, as they can then match their claim. Early forces them to choose not to claim, or to risk claiming incorrectly.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on August 25, 2018, 11:40:43 pm
A) Wrong. Less people alive, easier to deduce skum after the fact.
B) My method takes like 8 additional seconds.

Your point is nonsensical. You said that more people alive give scum more strength when it comes to claiming via a popcorn method - this is simply untrue. The greater the ratio of town to scum, the less scum can control the order of claims. Further, you're now claiming something completely different, something unrelated to anything you said in the first post - that the fewer people alive the easier it is deduce scum after the fact.

This is also untrue, as we're going to see 3 claims, maybe 4 in total, and we already know what they are. Cop, Cop, Cop, and maybe Cop. It's not as if scum can fakeclaim something here - the two members of the mafia team will be claiming VT just like every other VT in the game. What order they get to do so in is irrelevant, and any attempt to draw conclusions based on claiming order will ultimately lead to no useful ends. The only player that can reasonably fakeclaim isn't known to anybody but himself, and thus the only thing we want to avoid is that player getting to claim early.

I endorse this. Especially the last sentence.

Though I will point out, they are dis-incentivized from fake claiming early, since they could mistakenly claim the same thing as the two sane cops.

Sorry, my last word was obviously backwards - we don't want them to claim LATE, as they can then match their claim. Early forces them to choose not to claim, or to risk claiming incorrectly.

I don't see a way to FORCE them to claim early though - if we do it randomly they have a chance to get the last, safest spot randomly.

We want them to feel PRESSURE to claim early, for the reasons you mentioned. But I don't see a way to force it. Hence, there needs to be a lot of suspicion on the late claimants - assuming there wasn't a bungled claim (like 3 people claiming a guilty result).
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: DatSwan on August 25, 2018, 11:55:32 pm
A) Wrong. Less people alive, easier to deduce skum after the fact.
B) My method takes like 8 additional seconds.

Your point is nonsensical. You said that more people alive give scum more strength when it comes to claiming via a popcorn method - this is simply untrue. The greater the ratio of town to scum, the less scum can control the order of claims. Further, you're now claiming something completely different, something unrelated to anything you said in the first post - that the fewer people alive the easier it is deduce scum after the fact.

This is also untrue, as we're going to see 3 claims, maybe 4 in total, and we already know what they are. Cop, Cop, Cop, and maybe Cop. It's not as if scum can fakeclaim something here - the two members of the mafia team will be claiming VT just like every other VT in the game. What order they get to do so in is irrelevant, and any attempt to draw conclusions based on claiming order will ultimately lead to no useful ends. The only player that can reasonably fakeclaim isn't known to anybody but himself, and thus the only thing we want to avoid is that player getting to claim early.

I endorse this. Especially the last sentence.

Though I will point out, they are dis-incentivized from fake claiming early, since they could mistakenly claim the same thing as the two sane cops.

Sorry, my last word was obviously backwards - we don't want them to claim LATE, as they can then match their claim. Early forces them to choose not to claim, or to risk claiming incorrectly.

You know what - given the setup of this game, where the only claimed PR is a cop, you are probably right.
I still think your skum - but i concede this point.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Galzria on August 26, 2018, 12:05:39 am
A) Wrong. Less people alive, easier to deduce skum after the fact.
B) My method takes like 8 additional seconds.

Your point is nonsensical. You said that more people alive give scum more strength when it comes to claiming via a popcorn method - this is simply untrue. The greater the ratio of town to scum, the less scum can control the order of claims. Further, you're now claiming something completely different, something unrelated to anything you said in the first post - that the fewer people alive the easier it is deduce scum after the fact.

This is also untrue, as we're going to see 3 claims, maybe 4 in total, and we already know what they are. Cop, Cop, Cop, and maybe Cop. It's not as if scum can fakeclaim something here - the two members of the mafia team will be claiming VT just like every other VT in the game. What order they get to do so in is irrelevant, and any attempt to draw conclusions based on claiming order will ultimately lead to no useful ends. The only player that can reasonably fakeclaim isn't known to anybody but himself, and thus the only thing we want to avoid is that player getting to claim early.

I endorse this. Especially the last sentence.

Though I will point out, they are dis-incentivized from fake claiming early, since they could mistakenly claim the same thing as the two sane cops.

Sorry, my last word was obviously backwards - we don't want them to claim LATE, as they can then match their claim. Early forces them to choose not to claim, or to risk claiming incorrectly.

I don't see a way to FORCE them to claim early though - if we do it randomly they have a chance to get the last, safest spot randomly.

We want them to feel PRESSURE to claim early, for the reasons you mentioned. But I don't see a way to force it. Hence, there needs to be a lot of suspicion on the late claimants - assuming there wasn't a bungled claim (like 3 people claiming a guilty result).

That's why I liked the idea of a popcorn claim. If each player popcorns their highest scum read, we increase the chances of forcing* an earlier claim... at least, the increase in chance is about equal to the quality of our reads. It may not be much but... it's about the best I can think of outside of letting randomness decide if we get lucky or not.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on August 26, 2018, 12:14:26 am
A) Wrong. Less people alive, easier to deduce skum after the fact.
B) My method takes like 8 additional seconds.

Your point is nonsensical. You said that more people alive give scum more strength when it comes to claiming via a popcorn method - this is simply untrue. The greater the ratio of town to scum, the less scum can control the order of claims. Further, you're now claiming something completely different, something unrelated to anything you said in the first post - that the fewer people alive the easier it is deduce scum after the fact.

This is also untrue, as we're going to see 3 claims, maybe 4 in total, and we already know what they are. Cop, Cop, Cop, and maybe Cop. It's not as if scum can fakeclaim something here - the two members of the mafia team will be claiming VT just like every other VT in the game. What order they get to do so in is irrelevant, and any attempt to draw conclusions based on claiming order will ultimately lead to no useful ends. The only player that can reasonably fakeclaim isn't known to anybody but himself, and thus the only thing we want to avoid is that player getting to claim early.

I endorse this. Especially the last sentence.

Though I will point out, they are dis-incentivized from fake claiming early, since they could mistakenly claim the same thing as the two sane cops.

Sorry, my last word was obviously backwards - we don't want them to claim LATE, as they can then match their claim. Early forces them to choose not to claim, or to risk claiming incorrectly.

I don't see a way to FORCE them to claim early though - if we do it randomly they have a chance to get the last, safest spot randomly.

We want them to feel PRESSURE to claim early, for the reasons you mentioned. But I don't see a way to force it. Hence, there needs to be a lot of suspicion on the late claimants - assuming there wasn't a bungled claim (like 3 people claiming a guilty result).

That's why I liked the idea of a popcorn claim. If each player popcorns their highest scum read, we increase the chances of forcing* an earlier claim... at least, the increase in chance is about equal to the quality of our reads. It may not be much but... it's about the best I can think of outside of letting randomness decide if we get lucky or not.

Are you suggesting that we popcorn and claim both role and alignment at the same time?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Galzria on August 26, 2018, 12:37:34 am
A) Wrong. Less people alive, easier to deduce skum after the fact.
B) My method takes like 8 additional seconds.

Your point is nonsensical. You said that more people alive give scum more strength when it comes to claiming via a popcorn method - this is simply untrue. The greater the ratio of town to scum, the less scum can control the order of claims. Further, you're now claiming something completely different, something unrelated to anything you said in the first post - that the fewer people alive the easier it is deduce scum after the fact.

This is also untrue, as we're going to see 3 claims, maybe 4 in total, and we already know what they are. Cop, Cop, Cop, and maybe Cop. It's not as if scum can fakeclaim something here - the two members of the mafia team will be claiming VT just like every other VT in the game. What order they get to do so in is irrelevant, and any attempt to draw conclusions based on claiming order will ultimately lead to no useful ends. The only player that can reasonably fakeclaim isn't known to anybody but himself, and thus the only thing we want to avoid is that player getting to claim early.

I endorse this. Especially the last sentence.

Though I will point out, they are dis-incentivized from fake claiming early, since they could mistakenly claim the same thing as the two sane cops.

Sorry, my last word was obviously backwards - we don't want them to claim LATE, as they can then match their claim. Early forces them to choose not to claim, or to risk claiming incorrectly.

I don't see a way to FORCE them to claim early though - if we do it randomly they have a chance to get the last, safest spot randomly.

We want them to feel PRESSURE to claim early, for the reasons you mentioned. But I don't see a way to force it. Hence, there needs to be a lot of suspicion on the late claimants - assuming there wasn't a bungled claim (like 3 people claiming a guilty result).

That's why I liked the idea of a popcorn claim. If each player popcorns their highest scum read, we increase the chances of forcing* an earlier claim... at least, the increase in chance is about equal to the quality of our reads. It may not be much but... it's about the best I can think of outside of letting randomness decide if we get lucky or not.

Are you suggesting that we popcorn and claim both role and alignment at the same time?

I think that's ultimately the safer bet...

If we don't do so, if we make a cop claim and then make a results claim, then the order we go in now (first round) doesn't matter - either the traitor is or is not going to claim cop. He can do so first, or he can do so last - it doesn't actually change anything.

At that point, on the second round of claiming, we want to try and force the traitor to claim early - but is there any feasible way to do so?

If we claim both at the same time, ultimately we run into the same issue... except that if, say, the traitor is called on early to claim they may choose not to claim instead of risk messing it up. In this case, we'll at least get 3 IC's out of the claiming process. And if they don't like the sound of that, then let them claim and risk it.

I guess ultimately I think the risk of them getting to go last is about the same, but the benefit of doing both forces an early traitor into deciding to risk the claim at all or not.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on August 26, 2018, 02:37:28 am
Why donít we claim Cop/Not Cop first and then decide on claiming results? Oh and vote: Galz
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on August 26, 2018, 02:42:21 am
I think Galz, Awaclus and probably DatSwan are scum
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Joseph2302 on August 26, 2018, 02:57:16 am
Why donít we claim Cop/Not Cop first and then decide on claiming results?
Agreed.  Or we can spend the whole D2 arguing about the claim method and order and do nothing instead....
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on August 26, 2018, 03:15:49 am
Now everyone in signup order claim Cop/Not Cop
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on August 26, 2018, 03:16:29 am
I am Cop. Galzria next.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Galzria on August 26, 2018, 03:22:08 am
I am Cop. Galzria next.

Not until you claim results.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on August 26, 2018, 03:23:08 am
I am Cop. Galzria next.

Not until you claim results.

Why?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Galzria on August 26, 2018, 03:23:52 am
I am Cop. Galzria next.

Not until you claim results.

Why?

I'll claim now if you agree to claim results as the first claim after cop/no cop claims.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Galzria on August 26, 2018, 03:24:13 am
I am Cop. Galzria next.

Not until you claim results.

Why?

I'll claim now if you agree to claim results as the first claim after cop/no cop claims.

Otherwise, claim results now
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on August 26, 2018, 03:25:30 am
I am Cop. Galzria next.

Not until you claim results.

Why?

I'll claim now if you agree to claim results as the first claim after cop/no cop claims.

again, why is that?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Galzria on August 26, 2018, 03:28:51 am
A) Wrong. Less people alive, easier to deduce skum after the fact.
B) My method takes like 8 additional seconds.

Your point is nonsensical. You said that more people alive give scum more strength when it comes to claiming via a popcorn method - this is simply untrue. The greater the ratio of town to scum, the less scum can control the order of claims. Further, you're now claiming something completely different, something unrelated to anything you said in the first post - that the fewer people alive the easier it is deduce scum after the fact.

This is also untrue, as we're going to see 3 claims, maybe 4 in total, and we already know what they are. Cop, Cop, Cop, and maybe Cop. It's not as if scum can fakeclaim something here - the two members of the mafia team will be claiming VT just like every other VT in the game. What order they get to do so in is irrelevant, and any attempt to draw conclusions based on claiming order will ultimately lead to no useful ends. The only player that can reasonably fakeclaim isn't known to anybody but himself, and thus the only thing we want to avoid is that player getting to claim early.

I endorse this. Especially the last sentence.

Though I will point out, they are dis-incentivized from fake claiming early, since they could mistakenly claim the same thing as the two sane cops.

Sorry, my last word was obviously backwards - we don't want them to claim LATE, as they can then match their claim. Early forces them to choose not to claim, or to risk claiming incorrectly.

I don't see a way to FORCE them to claim early though - if we do it randomly they have a chance to get the last, safest spot randomly.

We want them to feel PRESSURE to claim early, for the reasons you mentioned. But I don't see a way to force it. Hence, there needs to be a lot of suspicion on the late claimants - assuming there wasn't a bungled claim (like 3 people claiming a guilty result).

That's why I liked the idea of a popcorn claim. If each player popcorns their highest scum read, we increase the chances of forcing* an earlier claim... at least, the increase in chance is about equal to the quality of our reads. It may not be much but... it's about the best I can think of outside of letting randomness decide if we get lucky or not.

Are you suggesting that we popcorn and claim both role and alignment at the same time?

I think that's ultimately the safer bet...

If we don't do so, if we make a cop claim and then make a results claim, then the order we go in now (first round) doesn't matter - either the traitor is or is not going to claim cop. He can do so first, or he can do so last - it doesn't actually change anything.

At that point, on the second round of claiming, we want to try and force the traitor to claim early - but is there any feasible way to do so?

If we claim both at the same time, ultimately we run into the same issue... except that if, say, the traitor is called on early to claim they may choose not to claim instead of risk messing it up. In this case, we'll at least get 3 IC's out of the claiming process. And if they don't like the sound of that, then let them claim and risk it.

I guess ultimately I think the risk of them getting to go last is about the same, but the benefit of doing both forces an early traitor into deciding to risk the claim at all or not.
I am Cop. Galzria next.

Not until you claim results.

Why?

I'll claim now if you agree to claim results as the first claim after cop/no cop claims.

again, why is that?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on August 26, 2018, 03:33:15 am
oh ok. My result Ė Faust was town-aligned.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Galzria on August 26, 2018, 03:36:03 am
VT
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Galzria on August 26, 2018, 03:36:34 am
Awaclus next
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: DatSwan on August 26, 2018, 04:11:25 am
why is would claiming results be beneficial?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Joseph2302 on August 26, 2018, 04:58:15 am
why is would claiming results be beneficial?
Might as well, it's a way to maybe trap scum
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Awaclus on August 26, 2018, 05:44:30 am
VT
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: 2.71828..... on August 26, 2018, 07:31:19 am
Well, glad you guys had that discussion while I was asleep and was able to wake up for my turn to claim.

Cop: faust was town-aligned
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on August 26, 2018, 11:11:23 am
Well it's been a little freeform, which I think has probably been fine so far. E, I think your highest scum read should claim next though - who is it?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on August 26, 2018, 11:15:37 am
Well it's been a little freeform, which I think has probably been fine so far. E, I think your highest scum read should claim next though - who is it?

Not really. Mcmcsalot is up next, signups order.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on August 26, 2018, 11:18:19 am
Oh wait we're doing sign up order? I thought we didn't want to do that because the traitor could be last, luckily, and be able to make a perfectly safe claim with no suspicion thrown on them? I don't like this.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on August 26, 2018, 11:19:15 am
LaLight and e, I'll treat you as ICs for the moment. Do you really think this is a good idea?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on August 26, 2018, 11:19:38 am
Oh wait we're doing sign up order? I thought we didn't want to do that because the traitor could be last, luckily, and be able to make a perfectly safe claim with no suspicion thrown on them? I don't like this.

This is as likely as anything else.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on August 26, 2018, 11:19:55 am
Oh wait we're doing sign up order? I thought we didn't want to do that because the traitor could be last, luckily, and be able to make a perfectly safe claim with no suspicion thrown on them? I don't like this.

This is as likely as anything else.

I also think you're scummy :)
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on August 26, 2018, 11:20:55 am
LaLight and e, I'll treat you as ICs for the moment. Do you really think this is a good idea?

This was initially my idea, yes. Let's see the results first.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on August 26, 2018, 11:22:03 am
LaLight and e, I'll treat you as ICs for the moment. Do you really think this is a good idea?

Why exactly do you treat e as an IC?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on August 26, 2018, 11:22:37 am
I would rather you and e choose the order by listing your top scumreads. If datswan is the traitor, he can absolutely make whatever claim is safest. Honestly though it's probably too late for that to matter now that we have two claims. Damn damn damn.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on August 26, 2018, 11:23:20 am
LaLight and e, I'll treat you as ICs for the moment. Do you really think this is a good idea?

Why exactly do you treat e as an IC?

For the moment. If a third person claims a town result, or if two people claim scum results on Faust, everything changes.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on August 26, 2018, 11:24:07 am
I would rather you and e choose the order by listing your top scumreads. If datswan is the traitor, he can absolutely make whatever claim is safest. Honestly though it's probably too late for that to matter now that we have two claims. Damn damn damn.

My top scum reads atm are Galz and Awaclus, so ok with me
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: mcmcsalot on August 26, 2018, 11:46:43 am
I am a vanilla townie
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: 2.71828..... on August 26, 2018, 11:47:22 am
I think going signup order is much preferable to any other order.  Just in regards to getting claims out quickly so we can focus on other things.

Yeah, we have no clue where traitor/scum are located in signup order, but I don't think I could do much better organizing a claim order than sign-up order.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Robz888 on August 26, 2018, 12:35:43 pm
I am VT.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on August 26, 2018, 12:40:50 pm
7. Joseph2302
8. Hydrad
9. Dsell
10. gkrieg13
11. DatSwan
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Hydrad on August 26, 2018, 03:41:23 pm
Just waiting it out.

Also signup order is as good as I think we could have done as in a way it was made by an ic and scum has no influence on it
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: 2.71828..... on August 26, 2018, 03:57:31 pm
Just waiting it out.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Galzria on August 26, 2018, 05:17:58 pm
Just waiting it out.

Also signup order is as good as I think we could have done as in a way it was made by an ic and scum has no influence on it

LaLight is not an IC
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on August 26, 2018, 05:21:21 pm
Just waiting it out.

Also signup order is as good as I think we could have done as in a way it was made by an ic and scum has no influence on it

LaLight is not an IC

Oh come on, who's more obviously town?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Galzria on August 26, 2018, 05:49:24 pm
Just waiting it out.

Also signup order is as good as I think we could have done as in a way it was made by an ic and scum has no influence on it

LaLight is not an IC

Oh come on, who's more obviously town?

That's an incredibly scummy and self-serving position to take. Town rarely calls themselves the most obv!town player in the game.

Regardless, my point wasn't whether or not you were townie, or had done townie things, it was that you were not - and are not - in any way an IC at this point, nor should you be treated as such. This may change, of course - if we end up with only 3 claims then yes, you are an IC, as are the other two claimants. Likewise if one more person claims town results on faust, then the single scum result will be an IC cop. That's how these results work. That's the point of the claims.

Nobody has IC status right now, and it's premature to credit anybody with that status.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Hydrad on August 26, 2018, 05:50:20 pm
Just waiting it out.

Also signup order is as good as I think we could have done as in a way it was made by an ic and scum has no influence on it

LaLight is not an IC

Sorry. I kinda meant the mod is an IC. But I should have phrased that better
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on August 26, 2018, 06:04:41 pm
Just waiting it out.

Also signup order is as good as I think we could have done as in a way it was made by an ic and scum has no influence on it

LaLight is not an IC

Oh come on, who's more obviously town?

That's an incredibly scummy and self-serving position to take. Town rarely calls themselves the most obv!town player in the game.

Nice shading you get there. I am saying this stuff as any alignment in every game. There was a game where chairs was even annoyed by that.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: iguanaiguana on August 26, 2018, 07:02:21 pm
Devil's Punchbowl
(https://media.mnn.com/assets/images/2018/04/devils-punchbowl-5.jpg.653x0_q80_crop-smart.jpg)

Vote count 2.1

Dsell (1): gkrieg13
DatSwan (1): Galzria
Galzria (2): DatSwan, Lalight

not voting (7): Awaclus, 2.71828..., McMcsalot, Robz888, Joseph2302, Hydrad, Dsell

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 1 ends, Saturday, September 01, 2018, 05:30:00 pm
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Galzria on August 26, 2018, 07:37:59 pm
Just waiting it out.

Also signup order is as good as I think we could have done as in a way it was made by an ic and scum has no influence on it

LaLight is not an IC

Oh come on, who's more obviously town?

That's an incredibly scummy and self-serving position to take. Town rarely calls themselves the most obv!town player in the game.

Nice shading you get there. I am saying this stuff as any alignment in every game. There was a game where chairs was even annoyed by that.

Nice ignoring of the actual point.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Joseph2302 on August 26, 2018, 07:41:54 pm
7. Joseph2302
8. Hydrad
9. Dsell
10. gkrieg13
11. DatSwan
I'm VT
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Hydrad on August 26, 2018, 07:46:58 pm
Vt
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on August 26, 2018, 07:48:27 pm
I am VT.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Hydrad on August 26, 2018, 08:51:52 pm
we almost done the claiming!
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on August 26, 2018, 09:11:23 pm
Vt
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Hydrad on August 26, 2018, 09:14:36 pm
aww man. i'm dissapointed.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on August 26, 2018, 09:16:47 pm
This is good news!! No counter claims!
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Galzria on August 26, 2018, 09:18:23 pm
aww man. i'm dissapointed.

Why? We'll now have 3 IC's, and all scum in VT's. That's fantastic
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on August 26, 2018, 09:25:54 pm
Wait did Datswan already claim?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Galzria on August 26, 2018, 09:28:07 pm
Wait did Datswan already claim?

No,  but he's the last person and we only have 2 claims. That makes him the insane cop with a guilty result on faust. The other two are sane cops with their confirmed town results.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on August 26, 2018, 09:38:03 pm
DSell is scum because he was coaching the traitor on how to act.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on August 26, 2018, 09:42:09 pm
DSell is scum because he was coaching the traitor on how to act.

Absolutely incorrect. I stand by what I was saying - claim order could have screwed us if the traitor happened to be late in the claim order. We got lucky that it worked out. Doing freeform claim or a popcorn claim would have put pressure on the traitor no matter when they claimed, rather it relying on RNG.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Galzria on August 26, 2018, 09:44:37 pm
3 scum in: {Galzria, Awaclus, Mcmc, Robz, Joseph, Hydrad, Dsell, Gkrieg}

Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Galzria on August 26, 2018, 09:48:26 pm
DSell is scum because he was coaching the traitor on how to act.

Absolutely incorrect. I stand by what I was saying - claim order could have screwed us if the traitor happened to be late in the claim order. We got lucky that it worked out. Doing freeform claim or a popcorn claim would have put pressure on the traitor no matter when they claimed, rather it relying on RNG.

Assuming our reads (town, everybody) in general are above random (and I should hope that they are), then yes, a popcorn claim in order of highest scum read will serve town with better results overall than going by anything pure random over a large enough sample size. Here, the results could not have worked out better, so the point is moot.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on August 26, 2018, 09:50:30 pm
DSell is scum because he was coaching the traitor on how to act.

Absolutely incorrect. I stand by what I was saying - claim order could have screwed us if the traitor happened to be late in the claim order. We got lucky that it worked out. Doing freeform claim or a popcorn claim would have put pressure on the traitor no matter when they claimed, rather it relying on RNG.

Assuming our reads (town, everybody) in general are above random (and I should hope that they are), then yes, a popcorn claim in order of highest scum read will serve town with better results overall than going by anything pure random over a large enough sample size. Here, the results could not have worked out better, so the point is moot.

Agreed the point is moot - except that it undermine's Gkrieg's "coaching traitor" accusation and vote on me.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on August 26, 2018, 09:52:00 pm
3 scum in: {Galzria, Awaclus, Mcmc, Robz, Joseph, Hydrad, Dsell, Gkrieg}

Likewise, LaLight, e, and DatSwan are ICs (innocent cops).
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: 2.71828..... on August 26, 2018, 09:52:39 pm
Well, that worked out nicely.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Galzria on August 26, 2018, 09:55:39 pm
Am I correct in taking the following:

"Each night, you may visit one person. That player will investigate as a city for that night."

To mean that scum cannot reverse results on themselves?

If a Sane Cop (e, LaLight) gets a scum result, then either they have scum or a framed player.

However if an Insane Cop gets a TOWN result, they know that they've found scum, correct? There is no variable?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on August 26, 2018, 09:56:25 pm
The other two ICs have their vote on Galzria. e, what do you think about that read?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Galzria on August 26, 2018, 09:56:40 pm
Am I correct in taking the following:

"Each night, you may visit one person. That player will investigate as a city for that night."

To mean that scum cannot reverse results on themselves?

If a Sane Cop (e, LaLight) gets a scum result, then either they have scum or a framed player.

However if an Insane Cop gets a TOWN result, they know that they've found scum, correct? There is no variable?

Scratch that. I'm being stupid. A framed town should result in TOWN to an insane cop.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Galzria on August 26, 2018, 09:59:27 pm
The other two ICs have their vote on Galzria. e, what do you think about that read?

If the IC's wanna lynch me, that's fine. Somebody needs to die today. But for the love of all things sane (and insane), don't frakkin quick lynch again. My reads as town are generally very, very good, and I want to have everything out there before my death - not to mention the fact that we may be able to work through a semi-solid solution to the game if we put in the time now.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: 2.71828..... on August 26, 2018, 10:00:35 pm
The other two ICs have their vote on Galzria. e, what do you think about that read?

I need to look back over the game with the new information.  Looking at the 8 people in the lynchpool for today it is interesting that 4 were on wagon and 4 were off wagon D1.  I lean toward at least one scum jumping on wagon yesterday, kind of think that may be a good place to start, and Galzria isn't there.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: 2.71828..... on August 26, 2018, 10:03:14 pm
Day 1 final vote count
Lalight (1): Awaclus
gkrieg13 (1): Hydrad
pingpongsam (7): faust, McMcsalot, Joseph2302, Robz888, Lalight, gkrieg13, 2.71828...

not voting (4): Dsell, DatSwan, pingpongsam, Galzria

With 13 alive, it took 7 to lynch.

3 scum in: {Galzria, Awaclus, Mcmc, Robz, Joseph, Hydrad, Dsell, Gkrieg}

Awaclus, Hydrad, Dsell, Galzria off wagon
mcmc, Robz, Joseph, gkrieg on wagon
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Galzria on August 26, 2018, 10:03:23 pm
unvote: Datswan, obviously.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on August 26, 2018, 10:08:04 pm
Fwiw I think Galz was doing really solid setup analysis and not that many others were. It could be bold play from scumGalz but he gets a lot of townpoints from me for that and I would oppose his lynch today.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Galzria on August 26, 2018, 10:08:37 pm
e, before posting any analysis of your own, I would suggest that you (and the other IC's) request of us 8 to put together our best cases/reads at this point in the game. It forces the VT's to make cases independent of the IC's. It's unfortunate that you three don't have daychat, but you should keep your own notes and thoughts private until it's time to do the deed and lynch somebody (or for you to talk amongst yourselves).

If that seems needless, then whatever - but I think it's better to force scum to choose their interactions without helpful guidance from the IC's.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Galzria on August 26, 2018, 10:09:44 pm
e, before posting any analysis of your own, I would suggest that you (and the other IC's) request of us 8 to put together our best cases/reads at this point in the game. It forces the VT's to make cases independent of the IC's. It's unfortunate that you three don't have daychat, but you should keep your own notes and thoughts private until it's time to do the deed and lynch somebody (or for you to talk amongst yourselves).

If that seems needless, then whatever - but I think it's better to force scum to choose their interactions without helpful guidance from the IC's.

On that note - I'm off work for today and all of tomorrow, so I'll get to work on it myself.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: 2.71828..... on August 26, 2018, 10:17:52 pm
e, before posting any analysis of your own, I would suggest that you (and the other IC's) request of us 8 to put together our best cases/reads at this point in the game. It forces the VT's to make cases independent of the IC's. It's unfortunate that you three don't have daychat, but you should keep your own notes and thoughts private until it's time to do the deed and lynch somebody (or for you to talk amongst yourselves).

If that seems needless, then whatever - but I think it's better to force scum to choose their interactions without helpful guidance from the IC's.

I am terrible at talking to myself in my qt. 

That being said, I am off to bed myself.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Hydrad on August 26, 2018, 11:35:06 pm
so the reason i was dissapointed was I was pretty sure when faust died that we were going to have a high chance in finding scum.

My theory was that scum team killed faust to try to let their partner get a better chance to claim. (plus its faust so may as well).

But anyways if I was traitor and going to claim I would of claimed faust was guilty. because why would scum team frame faust. all that would do is mess up my chance to claim the nice 2-2 split.

Then with both cops claiming town results right away that made it even more likely in my opinion for them to have not framed faust. I feel like traitor would have said faust was scum for his result (due to my logic above) if he went first in the claiming order so when both cops claimed town I was going to instantly assume that if there were 2 people that claimed faust was scum that one of them was scum.

So in reality I think we would of been hoping for the 2-2 split because I think we would of hit scum in the guilty section and make it a 50-50 in finding them. Which hilariously means I think the correct decision for traitor if they would have claimed would to make it the 3-1 split instead.

Anyways all this is pointless now but I was really excited to bring this up and find scum.

So I guess all in all the traitor either
a) realized that if they claimed it probably wouldn't have worked as well as they had hoped.
or
b) is near the top of the list.

I guess it could be both a and b but whatever, I wanted to seem smart.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Hydrad on August 26, 2018, 11:37:31 pm
as for who is scummy out of the "vts" galz this game is feeling scummy to me just because I feel like he was fighting the plan the most out of everyone. Which doesn't mean its really a bad thing. Its just in my eyes it was so towny of a plan that I couldn't really understand why galz would fight it. I guess there is also the thought that if he was scum would he step out that far to fight it and make himself the center of attention?

Either way I don't have many other reads I think so

Vote: Galz
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Hydrad on August 27, 2018, 12:25:14 am
also. just incase I die. I don't see a single reason for cops to not claim their results every day right? Just wanting to make sure that people are aware of this I guess.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: DatSwan on August 27, 2018, 02:10:34 am
speak up now before I claim it out.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on August 27, 2018, 04:56:56 am
oh wow I have never been an IC
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on August 27, 2018, 04:57:55 am
Can please everyone state their top scumreads?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on August 27, 2018, 04:58:22 am
also. just incase I die. I don't see a single reason for cops to not claim their results every day right? Just wanting to make sure that people are aware of this I guess.

People are. You dying seems like an improbable course of action.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on August 27, 2018, 04:58:41 am
People, how do you think who is a Traitor and why?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on August 27, 2018, 04:58:57 am
I remind you that traitor knows who are scum.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on August 27, 2018, 04:59:32 am
Also I changed my mind a little. Let's lynch Awaclus vote: Awaclus
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on August 27, 2018, 05:03:27 am
I am so glad e and DatSwan are ics because I scumread both a little.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: 2.71828..... on August 27, 2018, 05:15:33 am
also. just incase I die. I don't see a single reason for cops to not claim their results every day right? Just wanting to make sure that people are aware of this I guess.

People are. You dying seems like an improbable course of action.

Yeah, and hydrad bringing it up seems a little off to me.

Vote: hydrad
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Awaclus on August 27, 2018, 06:33:19 am
Also I changed my mind a little. Let's lynch Awaclus vote: Awaclus

Let's not lynch Awaclus.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on August 27, 2018, 06:35:01 am
Also I changed my mind a little. Let's lynch Awaclus vote: Awaclus

Let's not lynch Awaclus.

I will consider your proposal.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: 2.71828..... on August 27, 2018, 07:46:27 am
But yeah, Hydrad.

First post is joking about being scum
Oh man galz is onto me with the lurking part and scum team. Guess I'll post something.

Then a couple votes on Joseph  (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18910.msg766143#msg766143)and Gkrieg (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18910.msg766146#msg766146)

Then a bunch of theory talk before the lynch happens. 

Opens D2 with this
oh look faust is dead. unfortunate.

and his latest post
also. just incase I die. I don't see a single reason for cops to not claim their results every day right? Just wanting to make sure that people are aware of this I guess.

Was combined with the previous post jumping on the popular wagon of the day, Galzria.

It just feels that Hydrad is almost trying too hard to fit in and be towny.  Off the D1 wagon, but that will be more relevant as time goes by for D4 and later.  I like where my vote is on Hydrad.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on August 27, 2018, 07:47:51 am
what is Hydrad's scum meta?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: 2.71828..... on August 27, 2018, 07:49:49 am
what is Hydrad's scum meta?

I couldn't tell you.  I have never been good at keeping metas straight in my head.   I will conflate people, remember incorrectly, or something.  But when I see something scummy, I call it scummy.  And that is what I see in Hydrad here.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on August 27, 2018, 07:51:58 am
let's sheep the iC! vote: hydrad
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: mcmcsalot on August 27, 2018, 09:37:11 am
So as far as the plan is concerned. We now have 3 cops who know their sanity. There are sill 2 framers and there is no way to tell if a player has been framed.

What is the best way to use the three cops? I guess the most important thing would be to target 3 different people and only trust ďtownĒ or insane ďscumĒ results.

If it works out we are theoretically going to open tomorrow with 2 cops and possibly 2icís, then one cop and 3icís.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Joseph2302 on August 27, 2018, 11:31:23 am
I'm out all of today, will try and reread this evening
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Hydrad on August 27, 2018, 01:07:19 pm
what is Hydrad's scum meta?

My meta for scum is this. Either a) heavy lurking.

Or b) posts feeling very forced.

Basically as scum I have a hard time posting and when I try to post to make it look like I'm not lurking the posts look pretty forced and with almost no content.

I've known this is my meta for years but the reason I'm a bad scum player is that even though I know my meta I can't break it.

Now obviously you probably won't beleive me but figured I'd let you know
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on August 27, 2018, 01:13:06 pm
what is Hydrad's scum meta?

My meta for scum is this. Either a) heavy lurking.

Or b) posts feeling very forced.

Basically as scum I have a hard time posting and when I try to post to make it look like I'm not lurking the posts look pretty forced and with almost no content.

I've known this is my meta for years but the reason I'm a bad scum player is that even though I know my meta I can't break it.

Now obviously you probably won't beleive me but figured I'd let you know

Oh well, I believe you. Have you noticed youíre lurky this game and your posts feel forced? :)
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: 2.71828..... on August 27, 2018, 01:17:25 pm
So as far as the plan is concerned. We now have 3 cops who know their sanity. There are sill 2 framers and there is no way to tell if a player has been framed.

What is the best way to use the three cops? I guess the most important thing would be to target 3 different people and only trust ďtownĒ or insane ďscumĒ results.

If it works out we are theoretically going to open tomorrow with 2 cops and possibly 2icís, then one cop and 3icís.

As far as this goes, coordination is not going to work because then scum knows who to frame. My opinion is we each just target who we feel needs to be investigated and go from there.

Not really much discussion needs to be placed here though
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on August 27, 2018, 01:20:26 pm
So as far as the plan is concerned. We now have 3 cops who know their sanity. There are sill 2 framers and there is no way to tell if a player has been framed.

What is the best way to use the three cops? I guess the most important thing would be to target 3 different people and only trust ďtownĒ or insane ďscumĒ results.

If it works out we are theoretically going to open tomorrow with 2 cops and possibly 2icís, then one cop and 3icís.

As far as this goes, coordination is not going to work because then scum knows who to frame. My opinion is we each just target who we feel needs to be investigated and go from there.

Not really much discussion needs to be placed here though

Absolutely.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on August 27, 2018, 01:24:43 pm
So as far as the plan is concerned. We now have 3 cops who know their sanity. There are sill 2 framers and there is no way to tell if a player has been framed.

What is the best way to use the three cops? I guess the most important thing would be to target 3 different people and only trust ďtownĒ or insane ďscumĒ results.

If it works out we are theoretically going to open tomorrow with 2 cops and possibly 2icís, then one cop and 3icís.

This is a good plan.  I guess scum has no way to flip their own guilty read, so a town result will always mean a town person, where a guilty result doesn't necessarily mean anything.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Galzria on August 27, 2018, 01:25:43 pm
So as far as the plan is concerned. We now have 3 cops who know their sanity. There are sill 2 framers and there is no way to tell if a player has been framed.

What is the best way to use the three cops? I guess the most important thing would be to target 3 different people and only trust ďtownĒ or insane ďscumĒ results.

If it works out we are theoretically going to open tomorrow with 2 cops and possibly 2icís, then one cop and 3icís.

This is a good plan.  I guess scum has no way to flip their own guilty read, so a town result will always mean a town person, where a guilty result doesn't necessarily mean anything.

Traitor reveals as town until recruited by mafia.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on August 27, 2018, 01:28:06 pm
So as far as the plan is concerned. We now have 3 cops who know their sanity. There are sill 2 framers and there is no way to tell if a player has been framed.

What is the best way to use the three cops? I guess the most important thing would be to target 3 different people and only trust ďtownĒ or insane ďscumĒ results.

If it works out we are theoretically going to open tomorrow with 2 cops and possibly 2icís, then one cop and 3icís.

This is a good plan.  I guess scum has no way to flip their own guilty read, so a town result will always mean a town person, where a guilty result doesn't necessarily mean anything.

Traitor reveals as town until recruited by mafia.

Oh, true.  Still means that a town result is almost IC.  Scum result is still a 50/50 chance the person is scum.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: DatSwan on August 27, 2018, 03:28:18 pm
So as far as the plan is concerned. We now have 3 cops who know their sanity. There are sill 2 framers and there is no way to tell if a player has been framed.

What is the best way to use the three cops? I guess the most important thing would be to target 3 different people and only trust ďtownĒ or insane ďscumĒ results.

If it works out we are theoretically going to open tomorrow with 2 cops and possibly 2icís, then one cop and 3icís.

This is a good plan.  I guess scum has no way to flip their own guilty read, so a town result will always mean a town person, where a guilty result doesn't necessarily mean anything.

Traitor reveals as town until recruited by mafia.

Also they follow Town Win Conditions until/if they are recruited right? how does that work with "making up 50% of the remaining players"? Does an unflipped traitor help towns wincon?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: DatSwan on August 27, 2018, 03:29:16 pm
ahhh nvm I read it wrong in the set up - they just come up as town in searches, they do not actually count as town. nvm
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Hydrad on August 27, 2018, 03:33:34 pm
what is Hydrad's scum meta?

My meta for scum is this. Either a) heavy lurking.

Or b) posts feeling very forced.

Basically as scum I have a hard time posting and when I try to post to make it look like I'm not lurking the posts look pretty forced and with almost no content.

I've known this is my meta for years but the reason I'm a bad scum player is that even though I know my meta I can't break it.

Now obviously you probably won't beleive me but figured I'd let you know

Oh well, I believe you. Have you noticed youíre lurky this game and your posts feel forced? :)

Day 1 was a quick hammer and day 2 was claiming for most of it and until claims were done I didn't think posting was very useful. As for lurking I mean as scum I would probably have less then one post a day.

As for feeling forced posts I guess I can't tell myself. I've just noticed that when I have felt like I need to post something it's not uncommon that someone mentions how my post feels forced. And they are almost always right. So ya while I don't think I've had to force a post this game I can't be the judge on myself.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on August 27, 2018, 03:43:37 pm
I did a reread of Hydrad last night. There's not too much there, and they've been evidently confused about the setup/other stuff a couple times. They took a solid stance in favor of Faust's plan, which was a good thing but most everyone else who commented was also in favor. DThey participated a little in claim order suggestions, and their contributions seemed alright. Weird and bad disappointment when there was no counterclaim from scum. Overall I'm getting a clumsy town vibe, nothing has felt particularly scummy in a sinister way. But also, just not a lot of content.

But I also want to say that I do not know Hydrad's meta or how this relates to other games at all. I realize this isn't the strongest stance I could take but I am not great at judging the scumminess of players who are playing rather suboptimally. It's definitely not a lynch I oppose.

This reminds me a little of Morgrim back in the day, who was frustrating. He was often mislynched, but he wasn't the worst townie to mislynch because sometimes he would make a sideshow of things.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on August 27, 2018, 03:47:43 pm
So e, why did you hammer so quickly D1?  I was fully expecting you to be scum and am incredibly surprised that you are now an IC.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Dsell on August 27, 2018, 03:59:10 pm
Gkrieg, e basically answered this when I asked a similar question at the beginning of the day.

Y'all quicklynched ON MY DRIVE HOME. Quicklynches have ALWAYS been a bad idea? Is this where 4 years of mafia experience have led? That was a bad quicklynch.

Annoyed at Robz for suggesting, annoyed at e for hammering.

Gkrieg, why did you think an immediate lynch was a good idea?

Tbh I'm still suspicious of Galz - he got off the wagon which he may have known would eventually come under a lot of scrutiny.

Iguana I really love waterfalls so thank you for those.

I know I have had initial gut reads that I second guess over and over and then turn out to be scum in the end after I defend them.  I had the opportunity to force a lynch through based on initial gut reads and I decided to take it.  It definitely changes the dynamic of the game and holds people accountable for their votes.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Joseph2302 on August 27, 2018, 04:01:12 pm
So we have 2 claimed sane cops, and 1 claimed insane cops. That's great, because we have 3 ICs.

From here, we should be able to get lots of useful information to IC more people

PPE: 1

Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on August 27, 2018, 04:29:42 pm
Gkrieg, e basically answered this when I asked a similar question at the beginning of the day.

Y'all quicklynched ON MY DRIVE HOME. Quicklynches have ALWAYS been a bad idea? Is this where 4 years of mafia experience have led? That was a bad quicklynch.

Annoyed at Robz for suggesting, annoyed at e for hammering.

Gkrieg, why did you think an immediate lynch was a good idea?

Tbh I'm still suspicious of Galz - he got off the wagon which he may have known would eventually come under a lot of scrutiny.

Iguana I really love waterfalls so thank you for those.

I know I have had initial gut reads that I second guess over and over and then turn out to be scum in the end after I defend them.  I had the opportunity to force a lynch through based on initial gut reads and I decided to take it.  It definitely changes the dynamic of the game and holds people accountable for their votes.

Oops!  Must be paying less attention than I thought I was.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on August 27, 2018, 04:32:35 pm
So we have 2 claimed sane cops, and 1 claimed insane cops. That's great, because we have 3 ICs.

From here, we should be able to get lots of useful information to IC more people

PPE: 1

I know you said you're out today and will try to reread tonight - when you do that I would love for you to give some reads and give some stances. I just did a reread of every post you've made in the whole game thus far and it took about 20 seconds. And a lot of it was Information Instead of Analysis, which is exactly what the post above is. If you are town, I believe you can be more helpful than this. If you are scum, I do not want you to be able to lurk your way out of a lynch/into a win.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on August 27, 2018, 04:41:31 pm
So we have 2 claimed sane cops, and 1 claimed insane cops. That's great, because we have 3 ICs.

From here, we should be able to get lots of useful information to IC more people

PPE: 1

I know you said you're out today and will try to reread tonight - when you do that I would love for you to give some reads and give some stances. I just did a reread of every post you've made in the whole game thus far and it took about 20 seconds. And a lot of it was Information Instead of Analysis, which is exactly what the post above is. If you are town, I believe you can be more helpful than this. If you are scum, I do not want you to be able to lurk your way out of a lynch/into a win.

This is kinda his playstyle. I am massively leaning that Joseph is town, townier than anyone in this game just because of this. Have you two met?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on August 27, 2018, 04:41:42 pm
DAMA IC
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on August 27, 2018, 04:51:42 pm
So we have 2 claimed sane cops, and 1 claimed insane cops. That's great, because we have 3 ICs.

From here, we should be able to get lots of useful information to IC more people

PPE: 1

I know you said you're out today and will try to reread tonight - when you do that I would love for you to give some reads and give some stances. I just did a reread of every post you've made in the whole game thus far and it took about 20 seconds. And a lot of it was Information Instead of Analysis, which is exactly what the post above is. If you are town, I believe you can be more helpful than this. If you are scum, I do not want you to be able to lurk your way out of a lynch/into a win.

This is kinda his playstyle. I am massively leaning that Joseph is town, townier than anyone in this game just because of this. Have you two met?

No, this was our first interaction.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on August 27, 2018, 04:52:36 pm
@LaLight have you seen Joseph play scum? Does he have a noticeably different style/meta as scum?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Joseph2302 on August 27, 2018, 04:54:51 pm
So we have 2 claimed sane cops, and 1 claimed insane cops. That's great, because we have 3 ICs.

From here, we should be able to get lots of useful information to IC more people

PPE: 1

I know you said you're out today and will try to reread tonight - when you do that I would love for you to give some reads and give some stances. I just did a reread of every post you've made in the whole game thus far and it took about 20 seconds. And a lot of it was Information Instead of Analysis, which is exactly what the post above is. If you are town, I believe you can be more helpful than this. If you are scum, I do not want you to be able to lurk your way out of a lynch/into a win.

This is kinda his playstyle. I am massively leaning that Joseph is town, townier than anyone in this game just because of this. Have you two met?
Nah I don't think we've played before
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Joseph2302 on August 27, 2018, 05:20:33 pm
So we have 3 scum in: {Galzria, Awaclus, Mcmc, Robz, Joseph, Hydrad, Dsell, Gkrieg} so these are the people I'll focus on (as rest are ICs)

Joseph: Definitely town
Dsell: I think it's towny that they're asking people (me) to contribute more. Because there seems to be a recurring problem that people don't contribute much, so games stall, and then because they're stalled, no-one contributes etc.. So encouraging more contribution is towny IMO
Robz: Encouraged the quicklynch D1, and D2 all he's done so far as I can see is try and defend the quicklynch. Seems scummy to me, as I don't see the benefit of quicklynch, primarily for reason below.
Awaclus: Contributed more than his usual non-existent amounts. Made a good point in #203 that as we were going with a faust constructed plan, we should've had more time for faust to sort out the plan. Town points for this
Hydrad: Reply #310 "so the reason i was dissapointed was I was pretty sure when faust died that we were going to have a high chance in finding scum." Well we've got a 3 in 8 chance now anyway, those are pretty decent odds. Not sure why so disappointed? Also that post makes me think they've thought A LOT about fake claims, something that only scum would need to think about so much

I'll look at rest tomorrow, because I've been out all day and I need sleep now.
But TL:DR- town order: Joseph > Awaclus > dsell > Hydrad > Robz, will add others in there tomorrow

Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: iguanaiguana on August 27, 2018, 05:33:55 pm
Hole in the Wall at Rialto Beach
(https://images.fineartamerica.com/images/artworkimages/mediumlarge/1/hole-in-the-wall-rialto-beach-pelo-blanco-photo.jpg)

Vote count 2.2

Dsell (1): gkrieg13
Galzria (2): DatSwan, Hydrad
Hydrad (2): 2.71828..., Lalight

not voting (6): Awaclus, McMcsalot, Robz888, Joseph2302, Dsell, Galzria

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 1 ends, Saturday, September 01, 2018, 05:30:00 pm
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Hydrad on August 27, 2018, 06:09:56 pm
I'm on my phone so I can't easily check. But I basically forgot mcmc was in this game. Which I feel like is weird for me to forget mcmc. He's usually someone I remember easily. I will give him minor scum points for this.

My scum list right now is galz > mcmc > robz > joesph.

Not worried about the others as much yet.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Robz888 on August 27, 2018, 06:25:26 pm
Vla until Wednesday, will catch up then.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: mcmcsalot on August 27, 2018, 06:53:55 pm
I'm on my phone so I can't easily check. But I basically forgot mcmc was in this game. Which I feel like is weird for me to forget mcmc. He's usually someone I remember easily. I will give him minor scum points for this.

My scum list right now is galz > mcmc > robz > joesph.

Not worried about the others as much yet.

Iím being weirdly absent. I had a busy weekend and didnít devote he amount of time I should have this morning. Whatís your galz case?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Hydrad on August 27, 2018, 07:45:43 pm
as for who is scummy out of the "vts" galz this game is feeling scummy to me just because I feel like he was fighting the plan the most out of everyone. Which doesn't mean its really a bad thing. Its just in my eyes it was so towny of a plan that I couldn't really understand why galz would fight it. I guess there is also the thought that if he was scum would he step out that far to fight it and make himself the center of attention?

Either way I don't have many other reads I think so

Vote: Galz
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Galzria on August 27, 2018, 07:56:53 pm
as for who is scummy out of the "vts" galz this game is feeling scummy to me just because I feel like he was fighting the plan the most out of everyone. Which doesn't mean its really a bad thing. Its just in my eyes it was so towny of a plan that I couldn't really understand why galz would fight it. I guess there is also the thought that if he was scum would he step out that far to fight it and make himself the center of attention?

Either way I don't have many other reads I think so

Vote: Galz

There's a big difference between "fighting the plan", and "critically thinking through the plan". It's always, always, in town's best interest to consider the worst possible ways that any given plan can come back to hurt them, instead of just blindly following along. Simply accepting, without question, is a far scummier trait.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: DatSwan on August 27, 2018, 08:11:19 pm
unvote

God Idk how to handle this and I have been thinking about it for like a whole day now. I hate to open this up to another CC possibility, but just in case either LL or e! like didnít actually search Faust or some other reason... Iím just gonna our it. If one of you had a pro play in the makes and Iím messing it up Iím sorry.

I am a cop and i also (meaning the 3rd of 3) searched Faust last night and my result was he was town.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Galzria on August 27, 2018, 08:24:26 pm
unvote

God Idk how to handle this and I have been thinking about it for like a whole day now. I hate to open this up to another CC possibility, but just in case either LL or e! like didnít actually search Faust or some other reason... Iím just gonna our it. If one of you had a pro play in the makes and Iím messing it up Iím sorry.

I am a cop and i also (meaning the 3rd of 3) searched Faust last night and my result was he was town.

The... what?

LL & e - if either of you were lying about your results, then I think... don't reveal at this time. You both know the truth about the each other, based on what you yourselves actually are. This means that even if scum kills one of you tonight, the other can still reveal the correct cop alignments tomorrow.

Rest of town - If one of you is actually an Insane cop that didn't claim... then I really don't know what to do or say. If you claim now, you could just be a traitor (to the rest of us) trying to force a bad lynch amongst the three sane cop claims - and then if one of them flips their result under the guise of a "gambit".... ugh. That's a bloody mess. At least we would have 50/50 lynch chance?

Assuming no other claim is forthcoming, I see absolutely no reason for Swan, claiming last, to have lied here - so he is, at the very least, a confirmed and truthful SANE cop.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on August 27, 2018, 08:28:32 pm
Now I'm all kinds of confused.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on August 27, 2018, 08:29:43 pm
unvote

God Idk how to handle this and I have been thinking about it for like a whole day now. I hate to open this up to another CC possibility, but just in case either LL or e! like didnít actually search Faust or some other reason... Iím just gonna our it. If one of you had a pro play in the makes and Iím messing it up Iím sorry.

I am a cop and i also (meaning the 3rd of 3) searched Faust last night and my result was he was town.

The... what?

LL & e - if either of you were lying about your results, then I think... don't reveal at this time. You both know the truth about the each other, based on what you yourselves actually are. This means that even if scum kills one of you tonight, the other can still reveal the correct cop alignments tomorrow.

Rest of town - If one of you is actually an Insane cop that didn't claim... then I really don't know what to do or say. If you claim now, you could just be a traitor (to the rest of us) trying to force a bad lynch amongst the three sane cop claims - and then if one of them flips their result under the guise of a "gambit".... ugh. That's a bloody mess. At least we would have 50/50 lynch chance?

Assuming no other claim is forthcoming, I see absolutely no reason for Swan, claiming last, to have lied here - so he is, at the very least, a confirmed and truthful SANE cop.

Why is your first thing to go to that an insane cop didn't claim?  Why wouldn't you first assume that e or LaLight screwed up their claims?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Galzria on August 27, 2018, 08:30:54 pm
unvote

God Idk how to handle this and I have been thinking about it for like a whole day now. I hate to open this up to another CC possibility, but just in case either LL or e! like didnít actually search Faust or some other reason... Iím just gonna our it. If one of you had a pro play in the makes and Iím messing it up Iím sorry.

I am a cop and i also (meaning the 3rd of 3) searched Faust last night and my result was he was town.

The... what?

LL & e - if either of you were lying about your results, then I think... don't reveal at this time. You both know the truth about the each other, based on what you yourselves actually are. This means that even if scum kills one of you tonight, the other can still reveal the correct cop alignments tomorrow.

Rest of town - If one of you is actually an Insane cop that didn't claim... then I really don't know what to do or say. If you claim now, you could just be a traitor (to the rest of us) trying to force a bad lynch amongst the three sane cop claims - and then if one of them flips their result under the guise of a "gambit".... ugh. That's a bloody mess. At least we would have 50/50 lynch chance?

Assuming no other claim is forthcoming, I see absolutely no reason for Swan, claiming last, to have lied here - so he is, at the very least, a confirmed and truthful SANE cop.

Why is your first thing to go to that an insane cop didn't claim?  Why wouldn't you first assume that e or LaLight screwed up their claims?

Because that seems more likely than someone messed up their claims.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Galzria on August 27, 2018, 08:32:22 pm
unvote

God Idk how to handle this and I have been thinking about it for like a whole day now. I hate to open this up to another CC possibility, but just in case either LL or e! like didnít actually search Faust or some other reason... Iím just gonna our it. If one of you had a pro play in the makes and Iím messing it up Iím sorry.

I am a cop and i also (meaning the 3rd of 3) searched Faust last night and my result was he was town.

The... what?

LL & e - if either of you were lying about your results, then I think... don't reveal at this time. You both know the truth about the each other, based on what you yourselves actually are. This means that even if scum kills one of you tonight, the other can still reveal the correct cop alignments tomorrow.

Rest of town - If one of you is actually an Insane cop that didn't claim... then I really don't know what to do or say. If you claim now, you could just be a traitor (to the rest of us) trying to force a bad lynch amongst the three sane cop claims - and then if one of them flips their result under the guise of a "gambit".... ugh. That's a bloody mess. At least we would have 50/50 lynch chance?

Assuming no other claim is forthcoming, I see absolutely no reason for Swan, claiming last, to have lied here - so he is, at the very least, a confirmed and truthful SANE cop.

Why is your first thing to go to that an insane cop didn't claim?  Why wouldn't you first assume that e or LaLight screwed up their claims?

Because that seems more likely than someone messed up their claims.

Or rather, them messing up unintentionally doesn't seem all that likely. That's like, not something that should happen. So that leaves two options:

It was messed up intentionally (covered), or there's an insane cop that didn't claim somewhere.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Awaclus on August 27, 2018, 08:36:15 pm
(https://static-cdn.jtvnw.net/emoticons/v1/58765/3.0)
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Awaclus on August 27, 2018, 08:45:42 pm
LL & e - if either of you were lying about your results, then I think... don't reveal at this time. You both know the truth about the each other, based on what you yourselves actually are. This means that even if scum kills one of you tonight, the other can still reveal the correct cop alignments tomorrow.

Are you sure you're not giving instructions to the traitor here?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on August 27, 2018, 09:02:02 pm
What the
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on August 27, 2018, 09:03:15 pm
Galz seems salient.

Awaclus could you explain that more?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Galzria on August 27, 2018, 09:05:02 pm
LL & e - if either of you were lying about your results, then I think... don't reveal at this time. You both know the truth about the each other, based on what you yourselves actually are. This means that even if scum kills one of you tonight, the other can still reveal the correct cop alignments tomorrow.

Are you sure you're not giving instructions to the traitor here?

I'm not sure if you're being funny here or not, as Gkrieg isolated my second paragraph, and now you've isolated my first.

Ideally, no, one of the two (Ll/e) is lying town for some perceived town benefit (first paragraph applies). If that's not the case, and one of them is scum, then we're in the situation where the true insane cop chose not to claim for some perceived town benefit (second paragraph applies).

If you were so inclined, you could argue that my second paragraph is "instructing the traitor" - but the following outcomes are all that exist, and none of them "great" for scum:

1. True Insane Cop claims from VT's, no Sane Cops flip their results: We have a 1-in-3 lynch pool, that almost certainly excludes Datswan (consider his position as a Traitor here), so really it's more of a 1-in-2 lynch pool.

2. True Insane Cop claims from VT's, one Sane Cop flips his results: We have a 1-in-2 lynch pool on the Insane Cops.

3. Traitor claims Insane Cop results from VT's, one Sane Cop flips his results: We have a 1-in-2 lynch pool on the Insane Cops.

So I believe that in a world where the traitor chooses now to get involved (assuming that LaLight/e aren't one of themselves the Traitor), they're setting up at best a 1-for-1 with town.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Awaclus on August 27, 2018, 09:14:05 pm
Awaclus could you explain that more?

Galzria said this:

Quote
LL & e - if either of you were lying about your results, then I think... don't reveal at this time.

Galzria might as well have said this:

Quote
LL & e - if either of you is the traitor, then I think... don't pretend that you're town who lied about their results.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: DatSwan on August 27, 2018, 09:14:39 pm
unvote

God Idk how to handle this and I have been thinking about it for like a whole day now. I hate to open this up to another CC possibility, but just in case either LL or e! like didnít actually search Faust or some other reason... Iím just gonna our it. If one of you had a pro play in the makes and Iím messing it up Iím sorry.

I am a cop and i also (meaning the 3rd of 3) searched Faust last night and my result was he was town.

The... what?

LL & e - if either of you were lying about your results, then I think... don't reveal at this time. You both know the truth about the each other, based on what you yourselves actually are. This means that even if scum kills one of you tonight, the other can still reveal the correct cop alignments tomorrow.

Rest of town - If one of you is actually an Insane cop that didn't claim... then I really don't know what to do or say. If you claim now, you could just be a traitor (to the rest of us) trying to force a bad lynch amongst the three sane cop claims - and then if one of them flips their result under the guise of a "gambit".... ugh. That's a bloody mess. At least we would have 50/50 lynch chance?

Assuming no other claim is forthcoming, I see absolutely no reason for Swan, claiming last, to have lied here - so he is, at the very least, a confirmed and truthful SANE cop.

Why is your first thing to go to that an insane cop didn't claim?  Why wouldn't you first assume that e or LaLight screwed up their claims?

Because that seems more likely than someone messed up their claims.

And also letís be honest - after lost there is like a 0% chance LL messes up lol
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: 2.71828..... on August 27, 2018, 09:41:02 pm
I definitely investigated faust and definitely got town-aligned.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: 2.71828..... on August 27, 2018, 09:49:13 pm
No matter what scum did, we do know that town lied.  Personally, I think the insane cop probably lied about being a VT.  Which means that LaLight or Datswan is scum.  Or LaLight/DatSwan is lying town and actually insane.  In which case I would say LaLight is the one lying, because Datswan has absolutely zero motive to lie here.

either way, unvote until we have a chance for more people to weigh in.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on August 27, 2018, 09:57:58 pm
No matter what scum did, we do know that town lied.  Personally, I think the insane cop probably lied about being a VT.  Which means that LaLight or Datswan is scum.  Or LaLight/DatSwan is lying town and actually insane.  In which case I would say LaLight is the one lying, because Datswan has absolutely zero motive to lie here.

either way, unvote until we have a chance for more people to weigh in.

I am rereading the beginning of the day and we were still talking about claim order and LaLight did just jump in to claim before we'd decided on an order. At the time this did really confuse me since I thought we were still discussing and I did NOT like doing signup order.

It is possible that another cop decided not to claim after seeing two cops claim right away... Except that the supposed unclaimed cop is the insane one, so at the time there would have been no contradictory claims. Still pretty confused.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: 2.71828..... on August 27, 2018, 10:02:13 pm
My gut reaction is to examine the thread for who may have lied about being a VT and is actually an insane cop, but speculation down this line can only help scum, so I don't think we should do that.

But like, I seriously doubt LaLight lied about their claim (lied, as in they will come out as insane).  It just does not feel like something LaLight does here as town or scum.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on August 27, 2018, 10:08:13 pm
But like, I seriously doubt LaLight lied about their claim (lied, as in they will come out as insane).  It just does not feel like something LaLight does here as town or scum.

But if you're telling the truth, and bc DatSwan has no incentive to lie, LaLight HAS to be either lying town or scum. (I'm not 100% you're telling the truth and no one should be, but from your perspective)

The only other alternative is that DatSwan is traitor (or even normal scum?) and one of the cops claimed VT. DatSwan just waited a while to determine what claim would be worst for town and went with that.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on August 27, 2018, 10:12:09 pm
The only other alternative is that DatSwan is traitor (or even normal scum?) and one of the cops claimed VT. DatSwan just waited a while to determine what claim would be worst for town and went with that.

Given this (probably remote?) possibility I take back what I said about agreeing with Galz 100%. I don't think we can treat DatSwan as a perfectly confirmed sane cop, unless I'm missing something.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: 2.71828..... on August 27, 2018, 10:19:22 pm
Just putting this down.  Going through the options out loud rather than just saying "Datswan is obv!town"

IF Datswan is town, he is obviously telling the truth.  No reason to lie as town in this position.
IF Datswan is scum, he could have claimed insane or sane and the real insane cop claimed VT. 
- claiming insane: The real insane cop that claimed VT could then jump out and create a 1-1, which would be nice I guess.  Maybe they were going for that.  But still a big gamble for a town cop.
- claiming sane: creates the situation we are in now, where LaLight and myself are pulled into question.  Which is a much better place to be than had they claimed insane.  1/3 instead of 1/2 and they look fairly townie due to claiming position.
- claiming VT: life as normal but we know that some random VT is the insane cop.  I would need to run the numbers and such, but then we have 2 straight up ICs and a third cop that could potentially hide out to claim on D4.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: 2.71828..... on August 27, 2018, 10:23:14 pm
Actually, insane cop hiding is brilliant.  I really hope that our insane cop hid intentionally.

Because now we can definitively create another IC for tomorrow.

Lets say all of us sane cops intentionally target player X.  hidden insane cop also targets player X.  tomorrow, player X is either caught scum or an IC.  Or scum kill that target rather than killing a cop, which is what happened with faust last night.  faust would have been IC'ed with verification from sane/insane cops.  Bird in the hand is worth two in the bush, killing someone who scum knew would become an IC vs someone who may or may not be a cop.

I like it.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: 2.71828..... on August 27, 2018, 10:31:19 pm
but actually we probably don't need to do that.  We can probably still just randomly  cop and get results and that will work.  the only reason we had to coordinate was to confirm sanity.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on August 27, 2018, 10:49:38 pm
Just putting this down.  Going through the options out loud rather than just saying "Datswan is obv!town"

IF Datswan is town, he is obviously telling the truth.  No reason to lie as town in this position.
IF Datswan is scum, he could have claimed insane or sane and the real insane cop claimed VT. 
- claiming insane: The real insane cop that claimed VT could then jump out and create a 1-1, which would be nice I guess.  Maybe they were going for that.  But still a big gamble for a town cop.
- claiming sane: creates the situation we are in now, where LaLight and myself are pulled into question.  Which is a much better place to be than had they claimed insane.  1/3 instead of 1/2 and they look fairly townie due to claiming position.
- claiming VT: life as normal but we know that some random VT is the insane cop.  I would need to run the numbers and such, but then we have 2 straight up ICs and a third cop that could potentially hide out to claim on D4.

If DatSwan is scum he had a day to brainstorm the possible outcomes to figure out which claim he thought would be optimal in the situation.

In this situation at this point, I believe e more than LaLight or DatSwan given both claim order and e's analysis of this.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Galzria on August 27, 2018, 11:04:17 pm
Just putting this down.  Going through the options out loud rather than just saying "Datswan is obv!town"

IF Datswan is town, he is obviously telling the truth.  No reason to lie as town in this position.
IF Datswan is scum, he could have claimed insane or sane and the real insane cop claimed VT. 
- claiming insane: The real insane cop that claimed VT could then jump out and create a 1-1, which would be nice I guess.  Maybe they were going for that.  But still a big gamble for a town cop.
- claiming sane: creates the situation we are in now, where LaLight and myself are pulled into question.  Which is a much better place to be than had they claimed insane.  1/3 instead of 1/2 and they look fairly townie due to claiming position.
- claiming VT: life as normal but we know that some random VT is the insane cop.  I would need to run the numbers and such, but then we have 2 straight up ICs and a third cop that could potentially hide out to claim on D4.

If DatSwan is scum he had a day to brainstorm the possible outcomes to figure out which claim he thought would be optimal in the situation.

In this situation at this point, I believe e more than LaLight or DatSwan given both claim order and e's analysis of this.

The only problem I have is with e's analysis of the first option in a scum!Datswan scenario:

Scum!Swan knows that a VT is actually a Cop. He knows that cop is insane based on LaLight/e. Unfortunately, he's the ONLY one that knows that. Let's assume there's a world where he's town and has a guilty result, but everything else is setup the same. The cop who has claimed VT here doesn't know his own sanity, because he doesn't know if faust was framed or not. So "in-this-scenario-town-Swan" claims faust to have a guilty result. The unclaimed cop comes forth and says "well actually, I have a guilty result too" - this doesn't actually set up a 1-v-1, as they could BOTH be town and faust was framed. And that is, of course, what scum!swan would argue with a guilty result instead of a town one.

The point is that I don't think it's as cut and dry as e makes it there, and while certainly scum!swan may not have felt he could argue out of setting up a 2-town, 2-guilty scenario, the numbers are still actually more in his favor than against by claiming faust to have a guilty result.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on August 27, 2018, 11:54:48 pm
Just putting this down.  Going through the options out loud rather than just saying "Datswan is obv!town"

IF Datswan is town, he is obviously telling the truth.  No reason to lie as town in this position.
IF Datswan is scum, he could have claimed insane or sane and the real insane cop claimed VT. 
- claiming insane: The real insane cop that claimed VT could then jump out and create a 1-1, which would be nice I guess.  Maybe they were going for that.  But still a big gamble for a town cop.
- claiming sane: creates the situation we are in now, where LaLight and myself are pulled into question.  Which is a much better place to be than had they claimed insane.  1/3 instead of 1/2 and they look fairly townie due to claiming position.
- claiming VT: life as normal but we know that some random VT is the insane cop.  I would need to run the numbers and such, but then we have 2 straight up ICs and a third cop that could potentially hide out to claim on D4.

If DatSwan is scum he had a day to brainstorm the possible outcomes to figure out which claim he thought would be optimal in the situation.

In this situation at this point, I believe e more than LaLight or DatSwan given both claim order and e's analysis of this.

The only problem I have is with e's analysis of the first option in a scum!Datswan scenario:

Scum!Swan knows that a VT is actually a Cop. He knows that cop is insane based on LaLight/e. Unfortunately, he's the ONLY one that knows that. Let's assume there's a world where he's town and has a guilty result, but everything else is setup the same. The cop who has claimed VT here doesn't know his own sanity, because he doesn't know if faust was framed or not. So "in-this-scenario-town-Swan" claims faust to have a guilty result. The unclaimed cop comes forth and says "well actually, I have a guilty result too" - this doesn't actually set up a 1-v-1, as they could BOTH be town and faust was framed. And that is, of course, what scum!swan would argue with a guilty result instead of a town one.

The point is that I don't think it's as cut and dry as e makes it there, and while certainly scum!swan may not have felt he could argue out of setting up a 2-town, 2-guilty scenario, the numbers are still actually more in his favor than against by claiming faust to have a guilty result.

Maybe I am just tired but I did not fully follow this scenario you laid out. "Let's assume there's a world where he's town and has a guilty result" are you talking about DatSwan here or an unclaimed cop? Why wouldn't an unclaimed cop know their own sanity after 2 people came forward claiming a town result on Faust? I mean maybe they don't know 100% but I don't see the point.

Sorry but I would love if you could rephrase or restate this situation because I feel like understanding this is really important.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Hydrad on August 28, 2018, 12:12:31 am
oh man. this is incredible.

i'll post more thoughts later.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: DatSwan on August 28, 2018, 12:15:07 am
We should not lynch inside the cops bc of the chance that all three are cops. The play is still lynch within the vts. This is why i was hesitant to say anything...
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: DatSwan on August 28, 2018, 12:18:00 am
LL needs to speak up
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on August 28, 2018, 12:18:38 am
We should not lynch inside the cops bc of the chance that all three are cops. The play is still lynch within the vts. This is why i was hesitant to say anything...

I, for one, am definitely not trying to lynch inside the claimed cops. However, I think it's good to lay out the potential situations surrounding this. We still have a lot of time during the day to go over all the possibilities and maybe plan for some contingencies, and still do plenty of scumhunting from among the claimed VTs.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Joseph2302 on August 28, 2018, 02:34:26 am
We should not lynch inside the cops bc of the chance that all three are cops. The play is still lynch within the vts. This is why i was hesitant to say anything...

I, for one, am definitely not trying to lynch inside the claimed cops. However, I think it's good to lay out the potential situations surrounding this. We still have a lot of time during the day to go over all the possibilities and maybe plan for some contingencies, and still do plenty of scumhunting from among the claimed VTs.
Strongly agree with this. In this setup, cops are so important, and so mislynching one would be bad for sure.

And we're not even sure if there is a scum in the claimed cops anyway. Better to try and find the scum in the VT claims, as at least if we mislynch, it's only a VT lost. (Although of course lynching scum would be much better)
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on August 28, 2018, 02:39:25 am
Alright. I did not mess up or lied about my results and from my perspective e is conf!scum. I just woke up so case will be when iím at work. But itís just really obvious.

vote: 2.71828.....
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: DatSwan on August 28, 2018, 03:15:28 am
well I have now changed my mind. As thee is literally zero reason for both of you to be doing this as town, one of you is skum.

LL- you need to unvote. We have 5 days left. Do not be the precursor to mislynch (unless that is your intention)
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: DatSwan on August 28, 2018, 03:20:29 am
"Other Cop" you need to do an analysis on how this game plays out if we have 3 ICs in play added on the results for upcoming days. 3 Man Lylo at realistic worst. And that is without me knowing the rules and assuming that Traitor and Skum would be known to No vote in showoff to ensure the win - if that is not a thing than it is even better. If you are a cop and you think you are helping by staying quiet you are wrong. You will cost us the game. Please stop being stupid. We forgive you.

with 48 hours left imo we start to wagon either E or LL and hope we are right because... as I stated... if we are wrong.... and lynch a cop... then there is literally nothing that can keep us from losing.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: DatSwan on August 28, 2018, 03:21:07 am
"Other Cop" you need to do an analysis on how this game plays out if we have 3 ICs in play added on the results for upcoming days. 3 Man Lylo at realistic worst. And that is without me knowing the rules and assuming that Traitor and Skum would be known to No vote in showoff to ensure the win - if that is not a thing than it is even better. If you are a cop and you think you are helping by staying quiet you are wrong. You will cost us the game. Please stop being stupid. We forgive you.

with 48 hours left imo we start to wagon either E or LL and hope we are right because... as I stated... if we are wrong.... and lynch a cop... then there is literally nothing that can keep us from losing.

Elaboration would be that the second part only goes into play if someone doesn't smarten tf up.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: DatSwan on August 28, 2018, 03:21:59 am
ahhhhhhh

how did none of you do the math!
The game was fucking solved to a 50-50.
This was not necessary
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on August 28, 2018, 03:30:41 am
well I have now changed my mind. As thee is literally zero reason for both of you to be doing this as town, one of you is skum.

LL- you need to unvote. We have 5 days left. Do not be the precursor to mislynch (unless that is your intention)

What? I am voting conf!scum.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on August 28, 2018, 03:31:26 am
well I have now changed my mind. As thee is literally zero reason for both of you to be doing this as town, one of you is skum.

LL- you need to unvote. We have 5 days left. Do not be the precursor to mislynch (unless that is your intention)

I donít need to unvote, e is on L-6 i think?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: DatSwan on August 28, 2018, 03:32:39 am
well I have now changed my mind. As thee is literally zero reason for both of you to be doing this as town, one of you is skum.

LL- you need to unvote. We have 5 days left. Do not be the precursor to mislynch (unless that is your intention)

What? I am voting conf!scum.

Jesus man that is the skummiest thing you have ever said.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on August 28, 2018, 03:34:12 am
well I have now changed my mind. As thee is literally zero reason for both of you to be doing this as town, one of you is skum.

LL- you need to unvote. We have 5 days left. Do not be the precursor to mislynch (unless that is your intention)

What? I am voting conf!scum.

Jesus man that is the skummiest thing you have ever said.

2.7 is. confirmed. scum. Why donít you see it?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on August 28, 2018, 03:34:31 am
Let me get to my computer soon
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: DatSwan on August 28, 2018, 03:35:22 am
well I have now changed my mind. As thee is literally zero reason for both of you to be doing this as town, one of you is skum.

LL- you need to unvote. We have 5 days left. Do not be the precursor to mislynch (unless that is your intention)

I donít need to unvote, e is on L-6 i think?

and you are L-7
and I am L-7
so you are not helping
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: DatSwan on August 28, 2018, 03:36:23 am
or whatever on the L-X part - I am just taking your word that it is L6
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on August 28, 2018, 03:39:11 am
well I have now changed my mind. As thee is literally zero reason for both of you to be doing this as town, one of you is skum.

LL- you need to unvote. We have 5 days left. Do not be the precursor to mislynch (unless that is your intention)

I donít need to unvote, e is on L-6 i think?

and you are L-7
and I am L-7
so you are not helping

So why in thw world should I unvote? I donít understand tour mood here
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: DatSwan on August 28, 2018, 03:52:31 am
well I have now changed my mind. As thee is literally zero reason for both of you to be doing this as town, one of you is skum.

LL- you need to unvote. We have 5 days left. Do not be the precursor to mislynch (unless that is your intention)

I donít need to unvote, e is on L-6 i think?

and you are L-7
and I am L-7
so you are not helping

So why in thw world should I unvote? I donít understand tour mood here

So I am an IC then in your eyes, correct?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on August 28, 2018, 03:52:52 am
well I have now changed my mind. As thee is literally zero reason for both of you to be doing this as town, one of you is skum.

LL- you need to unvote. We have 5 days left. Do not be the precursor to mislynch (unless that is your intention)

I donít need to unvote, e is on L-6 i think?

and you are L-7
and I am L-7
so you are not helping

So why in thw world should I unvote? I donít understand tour mood here

So I am an IC then in your eyes, correct?

Yes
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on August 28, 2018, 03:53:43 am
What inventive had you as traitor to lie? You would just go with ďi am insane copĒ narrative and if real insane cop stepped up no oneíd believe them
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: DatSwan on August 28, 2018, 03:54:01 am
well I have now changed my mind. As thee is literally zero reason for both of you to be doing this as town, one of you is skum.

LL- you need to unvote. We have 5 days left. Do not be the precursor to mislynch (unless that is your intention)

I donít need to unvote, e is on L-6 i think?

and you are L-7
and I am L-7
so you are not helping

So why in thw world should I unvote? I donít understand tour mood here

and my mood is not necessarily directed at you if you are what you claim. it is just there is literally no reason for either of you to lie without a CC in place at this point so one of you is costing us the game. until I know it not you, I hold the both of you with equal arms.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on August 28, 2018, 03:54:29 am
Incentive. Sorry, i was drunk yesterday and i donít feel so good...
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: DatSwan on August 28, 2018, 03:54:41 am
What inventive had you as traitor to lie? You would just go with ďi am insane copĒ narrative and if real insane cop stepped up no oneíd believe them
you stopped quoting and IDK what this is referring too.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on August 28, 2018, 04:00:05 am
What inventive had you as traitor to lie? You would just go with ďi am insane copĒ narrative and if real insane cop stepped up no oneíd believe them
you stopped quoting and IDK what this is referring too.

Sorry. This is why i undoubtedly am sure you are an IC and e, therefore, scum
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on August 28, 2018, 04:01:00 am
Well this all pretty sums up the case I wanted to write at computer with addition that e knew heís going to claim cop so he hammered pps. Free mislynch!
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on August 28, 2018, 04:02:08 am
Not that free it turned out.

This is all classic 1-v-1 and i am eagerly wishing to win it. Though iíll die at night, but at least thereíll be 1 scum less and two confcops.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on August 28, 2018, 04:03:00 am
Itís like the fate herself is against me being an IC ever. Oh well
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on August 28, 2018, 04:04:17 am
I mean sure, letís talk and not quicklynch, he still has partners. But other than that itís pretty obvious
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on August 28, 2018, 06:14:04 am
So, to sum up.

I think Swan can not lie, because if he is traitor he could just claim Insane Cop and no one would believe real Insane Cop when they step up.

This makes e scum. Why doesn't it make me scum other than than I know I am town-aligned?

Ė e claimed second and he was in a more secure position.
Ė e DID NOT immediately vote me, because in his eyes he should see what I see reversed if he is town. He unvoted and did not vote me.
Ė This post:

My gut reaction is to examine the thread for who may have lied about being a VT and is actually an insane cop, but speculation down this line can only help scum, so I don't think we should do that.

But like, I seriously doubt LaLight lied about their claim (lied, as in they will come out as insane).  It just does not feel like something LaLight does here as town or scum.

This is exactly what scum would think.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on August 28, 2018, 06:15:05 am
Thinking that one of me and DatSwan is ACTUALLY Insane Cop lying is beyond weird. Why would we?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on August 28, 2018, 07:04:06 am
Also i asked the mod if the result is correct (just in case) and he confirmed
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: 2.71828..... on August 28, 2018, 07:35:11 am
Thanks for solving the game LaLight, we can all rest easy now.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: 2.71828..... on August 28, 2018, 07:37:42 am
Well this all pretty sums up the case I wanted to write at computer with addition that e knew heís going to claim cop so he hammered pps. Free mislynch!

wait, so you are saying that I (as scum) knew I was going to claim cop back on D1.  So no matter what position I was in I would be claiming scum.  You know, like, claiming first.  Claiming last.  Claiming in the middle.  All the places.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: 2.71828..... on August 28, 2018, 07:39:45 am
And yeah, I did not do a knee-jerk vote for LaLight because I wanted to wait to hear from them.  Back to my last post.  If scum is going to claim they are going to claim.  Order wouldn't really matter.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: 2.71828..... on August 28, 2018, 07:49:11 am
There are just so many holes in everything LaLight said that I don't really know where to start
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on August 28, 2018, 07:49:33 am
Well this all pretty sums up the case I wanted to write at computer with addition that e knew heís going to claim cop so he hammered pps. Free mislynch!

wait, so you are saying that I (as scum) knew I was going to claim cop back on D1.  So no matter what position I was in I would be claiming scum.  You know, like, claiming first.  Claiming last.  Claiming in the middle.  All the places.

Yes, you knew, if you're traitor. No matter what position
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on August 28, 2018, 07:49:48 am
Thanks for solving the game LaLight, we can all rest easy now.

:hattip:
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Awaclus on August 28, 2018, 08:26:53 am
"Other Cop" you need to do an analysis on how this game plays out if we have 3 ICs in play added on the results for upcoming days. 3 Man Lylo at realistic worst. And that is without me knowing the rules and assuming that Traitor and Skum would be known to No vote in showoff to ensure the win - if that is not a thing than it is even better. If you are a cop and you think you are helping by staying quiet you are wrong. You will cost us the game. Please stop being stupid. We forgive you.

with 48 hours left imo we start to wagon either E or LL and hope we are right because... as I stated... if we are wrong.... and lynch a cop... then there is literally nothing that can keep us from losing.

No, lynching out of claimed cops is stupid. Even if we assume that either e or LL must be the traitor (which I don't think we fully can), it's much better to lynch out of claimed VTs because:

Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on August 28, 2018, 08:34:12 am
There are just so many holes in everything LaLight said that I don't really know where to start

so you decided to start nowhere
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on August 28, 2018, 08:36:04 am
Multiple games only continue to prove, that we must always lynch an obv!scum.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Awaclus on August 28, 2018, 08:45:15 am
Multiple games only continue to prove, that we must always lynch an obv!scum.

But he's only obv!scum from your perspective and the rest of town can't trust your perspective. As I said in the Kubo and the Blitz Strings game:

I am not lynching from the VTs.

You might have to.
There is someone who is confirmed scum to me.

According to my wincon, it is not in my best interest to lynch among the VTs.

I understand that, but this setup is kind of weird and it allows for situations where you have to lynch someone who isn't confirmed scum even when someone else is. After all, you're the only one who knows for sure that LaLight is scum
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on August 28, 2018, 09:02:41 am
oh well.

vote: Awaclus
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: mcmcsalot on August 28, 2018, 09:35:05 am
Oooookay I got confused about claims because people assumed DatSwans claim and I though DatSwan was switching his claim.

Lalight claimed cop, then claimed town result on faust.
E claimed cop with a town result on faust.
Finally DatSwan claimed cop with town result on Faust.

So two of those three must be town and sane cops. (because we know faust was town)
The insane cop chose to lie during claims and claim vt. (This person didnít know they were the insane cop until two other cops claimed town result)

So since the point of the coordinating and claiming was to get the cops to figure out their sanity yes this has worked out great and the insane cop should stay completely hidden.

The insane cop not claiming was and is good regardless of the fake claim from mafia/traitor. Also DatSwan is absolutely not confirmed town. Scum in datswans position knows that the real insane cop has chosen to not claim. They got lucky that they were the insane cop and the sane cops could confirm everyoneís sanity by themselves.

Scum!swan can then claim vt and let town have two icís and a hidden insane cop which is a very strong position. If scum!swan claims insane cop he is forced to take a 1v1 that he probably wins but is still bad for mafia. Scum!swan claiming a town result on faust puts him in a 1 in 3 scum scenario while cluttering up all our icís.

Iím not saying Iím convinced swan is scum but we are absolutely at a 1 scum in LL/E/Swan scenario and not 1 scum in LL/E
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: mcmcsalot on August 28, 2018, 09:39:16 am
We should absolutely not lynch amongst the cops. Currently if scum kills one of the sane cops it helps us narrow down the pool. If not our cops get more and more results.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: mcmcsalot on August 28, 2018, 09:42:34 am
I have thoughts on which of the cops are town but I think it is a totally irrelevant topic to discuss at this point and only helps scum make their decision (is our cop townread).

So on to hunting the 2 scum in 8.

Dsell and awaclus are townie.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on August 28, 2018, 09:44:10 am
My lynchpool for today among the VTs are Dsell, Galzria or Awaclus
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Awaclus on August 28, 2018, 09:56:59 am
Vote: Galz
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: mcmcsalot on August 28, 2018, 10:09:52 am
Gkrieg reread:
Very few posts day one, supported the plan. L-1'd pps. Day two explained he wanted reactions from the L-1 vote (what were they?)
Votes 2.7 presumably for hammer. Goes at it with Dsell over claim order. Then just some normal reactions to things. Its a quiet game but nothing crazy scummy other than the vote for pps which is more likely to come from scum then town just due to the safeness of the wagon vs the danger of the lynch.

Hydrad:
Townie thoughts about massclaim and initial not loving reaction to faust claim, comes around to liking the plan. His post about finding scum when they claimed does sound towny. I didn;t like it at first but putting myself in a scum perspective I don't know why he would post that. It was a big aww I could have caught scum in this scenario that didn't and probably wouldn't have happened. But stil scum doesn't think about that anyway. Votes Galz in okay fashion. Questions me for townie resaons. A little self aware in some of his posts but thats hydrad super townie overall.

Iíll do more people at lunch
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on August 28, 2018, 12:43:59 pm
In this situation at this point, I believe e more than LaLight or DatSwan given both claim order and e's analysis of this.

After everything LaLight has said, I still stand by this - e is most likely to be telling the truth of the 3 claimed cops, I believe. (Of course, it's guaranteed that 2 of them are truthful)

LaLight, why the vote on Awaclus? I know you've listed him as one of your highest scumreads but I would love more reasoning.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on August 28, 2018, 12:45:29 pm
In this situation at this point, I believe e more than LaLight or DatSwan given both claim order and e's analysis of this.

After everything LaLight has said, I still stand by this - e is most likely to be telling the truth of the 3 claimed cops, I believe. (Of course, it's guaranteed that 2 of them are truthful)

LaLight, why the vote on Awaclus? I know you've listed him as one of your highest scumreads but I would love more reasoning.

He is helpful and feels much less Awaclusian as usually.

Also you have 1234 posts, nice!
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on August 28, 2018, 12:46:01 pm
In this situation at this point, I believe e more than LaLight or DatSwan given both claim order and e's analysis of this.

After everything LaLight has said, I still stand by this - e is most likely to be telling the truth of the 3 claimed cops, I believe. (Of course, it's guaranteed that 2 of them are truthful)

Why?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: mcmcsalot on August 28, 2018, 12:49:28 pm
In this situation at this point, I believe e more than LaLight or DatSwan given both claim order and e's analysis of this.

After everything LaLight has said, I still stand by this - e is most likely to be telling the truth of the 3 claimed cops, I believe. (Of course, it's guaranteed that 2 of them are truthful)

Why?

Again I donít think this is a good conversation to be having today when we arenít lynching cops.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on August 28, 2018, 12:50:14 pm
Vote: Galz

Is this because you believe he was directing the traitor?

Awaclus could you explain that more?

Galzria said this:

Quote
LL & e - if either of you were lying about your results, then I think... don't reveal at this time.

Galzria might as well have said this:

Quote
LL & e - if either of you is the traitor, then I think... don't pretend that you're town who lied about their results.

I am not convinced by your argument here, because I think this is probably the correct call if one of them WERE town and lying.

@LaLight, right now me, Galz, and Awaclus are the 3 most active VTs. You really think that the lurkier ones are most likely town?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on August 28, 2018, 12:52:56 pm
Vote: Galz

Is this because you believe he was directing the traitor?

Awaclus could you explain that more?

Galzria said this:

Quote
LL & e - if either of you were lying about your results, then I think... don't reveal at this time.

Galzria might as well have said this:

Quote
LL & e - if either of you is the traitor, then I think... don't pretend that you're town who lied about their results.

I am not convinced by your argument here, because I think this is probably the correct call if one of them WERE town and lying.

@LaLight, right now me, Galz, and Awaclus are the 3 most active VTs. You really think that the lurkier ones are most likely town?

Semantics. I don't think lurkier are townier I think at least one in you/Galz/Awa is scum. You and Galz were directing Traitor at some point, Awaclus is, as i said, too helpful to be town.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on August 28, 2018, 12:53:20 pm
vote: Galz
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on August 28, 2018, 12:53:43 pm
also I am surprised Robz, Joseph and gkrieg are in this game
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on August 28, 2018, 12:53:56 pm
guys we need content and activity.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on August 28, 2018, 12:55:28 pm
In this situation at this point, I believe e more than LaLight or DatSwan given both claim order and e's analysis of this.

After everything LaLight has said, I still stand by this - e is most likely to be telling the truth of the 3 claimed cops, I believe. (Of course, it's guaranteed that 2 of them are truthful)

Why?

Again I donít think this is a good conversation to be having today when we arenít lynching cops.

I don't want to lynch any of them but it's very possible that one of them is actively working against the town - I think this is all fair to consider since we were sheeping their IC perspectives 24 hours ago.

@LaLight your jumping in first to claim cop and DatSwan being the very last to claim based on signup order are the most convenient/safe places to claim. Again, we hadn't fully decided on doing signup order when you made your claim.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on August 28, 2018, 12:59:27 pm
In this situation at this point, I believe e more than LaLight or DatSwan given both claim order and e's analysis of this.

After everything LaLight has said, I still stand by this - e is most likely to be telling the truth of the 3 claimed cops, I believe. (Of course, it's guaranteed that 2 of them are truthful)

Why?

Again I donít think this is a good conversation to be having today when we arenít lynching cops.

I don't want to lynch any of them but it's very possible that one of them is actively working against the town - I think this is all fair to consider since we were sheeping their IC perspectives 24 hours ago.

@LaLight your jumping in first to claim cop and DatSwan being the very last to claim based on signup order are the most convenient/safe places to claim. Again, we hadn't fully decided on doing signup order when you made your claim.

How in the world would it be safer to claim first? Traitor wanted claims to split evenly Ė 2-2 for the best effect. I knew no one really scumread me then and if I were Traitor I would pick a popcorn order.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on August 28, 2018, 12:59:58 pm
In this situation at this point, I believe e more than LaLight or DatSwan given both claim order and e's analysis of this.

After everything LaLight has said, I still stand by this - e is most likely to be telling the truth of the 3 claimed cops, I believe. (Of course, it's guaranteed that 2 of them are truthful)

Why?

Again I donít think this is a good conversation to be having today when we arenít lynching cops.

I don't want to lynch any of them but it's very possible that one of them is actively working against the town - I think this is all fair to consider since we were sheeping their IC perspectives 24 hours ago.

@LaLight your jumping in first to claim cop and DatSwan being the very last to claim based on signup order are the most convenient/safe places to claim. Again, we hadn't fully decided on doing signup order when you made your claim.

How in the world would it be safer to claim first? Traitor wanted claims to split evenly Ė 2-2 for the best effect. I knew no one really scumread me then and if I were Traitor I would pick a popcorn order.

Why would DatSwan claim sane cop? He could claim Insane and then when the real insane cop stepped up, no one would believe them
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on August 28, 2018, 01:00:13 pm
I feel like fighting for the Town alone :(
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on August 28, 2018, 01:06:31 pm
In this situation at this point, I believe e more than LaLight or DatSwan given both claim order and e's analysis of this.

After everything LaLight has said, I still stand by this - e is most likely to be telling the truth of the 3 claimed cops, I believe. (Of course, it's guaranteed that 2 of them are truthful)

Why?

Again I donít think this is a good conversation to be having today when we arenít lynching cops.

I don't want to lynch any of them but it's very possible that one of them is actively working against the town - I think this is all fair to consider since we were sheeping their IC perspectives 24 hours ago.

@LaLight your jumping in first to claim cop and DatSwan being the very last to claim based on signup order are the most convenient/safe places to claim. Again, we hadn't fully decided on doing signup order when you made your claim.

How in the world would it be safer to claim first? Traitor wanted claims to split evenly Ė 2-2 for the best effect. I knew no one really scumread me then and if I were Traitor I would pick a popcorn order.

Why would DatSwan claim sane cop? He could claim Insane and then when the real insane cop stepped up, no one would believe them

Correct, we could lynch them that day and then we would lynch DatSwan the next day. In the meantime, we have 2 ICs and cops. In this scenario that's actually happening, if he is scum he is setting up a 1 in 3 where we know one person is lying but we have no ICs and there is a lot more confusion. Down the line we will be able to piece it together, but right now we are hesitant to lynch any of you, meaning you all - including the likely scum among you, have some survivability. And in fact, the scum has the most since they won't be night killed.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: 2.71828..... on August 28, 2018, 01:11:32 pm
How many votes does galzria have right now? Can someone consolidate the case on him? I reread him and didn't think he was that scummy
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: 2.71828..... on August 28, 2018, 01:12:16 pm
I think I will go back to vote: hydrad
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on August 28, 2018, 01:15:02 pm
In this situation at this point, I believe e more than LaLight or DatSwan given both claim order and e's analysis of this.

After everything LaLight has said, I still stand by this - e is most likely to be telling the truth of the 3 claimed cops, I believe. (Of course, it's guaranteed that 2 of them are truthful)

Why?

Again I donít think this is a good conversation to be having today when we arenít lynching cops.

I don't want to lynch any of them but it's very possible that one of them is actively working against the town - I think this is all fair to consider since we were sheeping their IC perspectives 24 hours ago.

@LaLight your jumping in first to claim cop and DatSwan being the very last to claim based on signup order are the most convenient/safe places to claim. Again, we hadn't fully decided on doing signup order when you made your claim.

How in the world would it be safer to claim first? Traitor wanted claims to split evenly Ė 2-2 for the best effect. I knew no one really scumread me then and if I were Traitor I would pick a popcorn order.

Yeah claiming first is definitely not as safe as claiming last, I do completely get that. I am still trying to wrap my head around it. In the hypothetical situation in my head where you are scum, perhaps you took advantage of being first in the signup order so there would be more suspicion on the later people? I am not sure. It doesn't make a lot of sense but NONE of this makes a lot of sense today.

It was somewhat jarring that you just jumped in and started the claiming and declared that it would be done in signup order, but I'm not sure whether it's actually scummy or just frustrating. Maybe e is the traitor, got screwed by the signup order, and claimed the wrong thing. This is all why I definitely don't want to lynch one of y'all today, I'm hoping that everything will somehow be more clear tomorrow or the next day.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Awaclus on August 28, 2018, 01:17:30 pm
Vote: Galz

Is this because you believe he was directing the traitor?

I don't want scum to know why exactly.

I am not convinced by your argument here, because I think this is probably the correct call if one of them WERE town and lying.

Are you his scum partner?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on August 28, 2018, 01:20:44 pm
Vote: Galz

Is this because you believe he was directing the traitor?

I don't want scum to know why exactly.

I am not convinced by your argument here, because I think this is probably the correct call if one of them WERE town and lying.

Are you his scum partner?

Oh yes, good old Awaclus! :)
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: 2.71828..... on August 28, 2018, 01:20:49 pm
I agree with keeping cops alive.

If scum NK them it narrows the lynch for the fake cop. If scum keep them alive we get more results. We will eventually have to lynch a claimed cop, but by that point we should have enough results to do it safely. Mislynch today, scum can kill the other claimed cop, and while we get the scum lynch we get zero results.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on August 28, 2018, 01:21:55 pm
Vote: Galz

Is this because you believe he was directing the traitor?

I don't want scum to know why exactly.

I am not convinced by your argument here, because I think this is probably the correct call if one of them WERE town and lying.

Are you his scum partner?

So galz and I are the two scum, along with the traitor who is one of LL, e, and datswan, and literally all of the lurkers are town. Sure.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Awaclus on August 28, 2018, 01:23:17 pm
Vote: Galz

Is this because you believe he was directing the traitor?

I don't want scum to know why exactly.

I am not convinced by your argument here, because I think this is probably the correct call if one of them WERE town and lying.

Are you his scum partner?

So galz and I are the two scum, along with the traitor who is one of LL, e, and datswan, and literally all of the lurkers are town. Sure.

Then why are you defending Galz?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on August 28, 2018, 01:23:39 pm
Vote: Galz

Is this because you believe he was directing the traitor?

I don't want scum to know why exactly.

I am not convinced by your argument here, because I think this is probably the correct call if one of them WERE town and lying.

Are you his scum partner?

So galz and I are the two scum, along with the traitor who is one of LL, e, and datswan, and literally all of the lurkers are town. Sure.

Not that impossible. Robz and gkrieg were really inactive last games, not regarding the alignment, Joseph is usually silent too. Mcmc is here, Awaclus is active, me, DatSwan. Maybe you just slipped the whole team!
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on August 28, 2018, 01:28:01 pm
Vote: Galz

Is this because you believe he was directing the traitor?

I don't want scum to know why exactly.

I am not convinced by your argument here, because I think this is probably the correct call if one of them WERE town and lying.

Are you his scum partner?

So galz and I are the two scum, along with the traitor who is one of LL, e, and datswan, and literally all of the lurkers are town. Sure.

Then why are you defending Galz?

I think he has done really solid analysis, and all of the (few) things that you have said have been scummy, look reasonable to me from a town perspective. He is one of the most active people and as long as I've known him, is extremely valuable as town. He could be scum but I don't see enough evidence for that yet. And if he's town I want him to stay alive bc he's contributing.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Joseph2302 on August 28, 2018, 01:39:12 pm
also I am surprised Robz, Joseph and gkrieg are in this game
So am I. I'm here, I've posted some reads.
And I think we should lynch VT for all the reasons mentioned before (that I don't feel the need to repeat).

But going back to D1, Robz pushed that quickhammer a lot. And has done nothing else this game. So, Vote: Robz
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on August 28, 2018, 02:05:37 pm
I agree a lot with Joseph here.

vote: Robz
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on August 28, 2018, 02:06:08 pm
I'm also not happy at the amount of traitor coaching there was from Dsell and galz.  I would definitely vote for either of them.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on August 28, 2018, 02:07:34 pm
My lynchpool for today among the VTs are Dsell, Galzria or Awaclus

Why don't you include Robz?  Although I agree with you on the first two, but why Awaclus?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on August 28, 2018, 02:08:29 pm
Gkrieg reread:
Very few posts day one, supported the plan. L-1'd pps. Day two explained he wanted reactions from the L-1 vote (what were they?)

Uh, there weren't really any, because there weren't enough posts between the L-1 and the hammer.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on August 28, 2018, 02:11:10 pm
also I am surprised Robz, Joseph and gkrieg are in this game

I've been slightly more active than to deserve this I think.  I'm getting up to speed now, and no one was responding to my thoughts on Dsell coaching the traitor.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on August 28, 2018, 02:13:27 pm
In this situation at this point, I believe e more than LaLight or DatSwan given both claim order and e's analysis of this.

After everything LaLight has said, I still stand by this - e is most likely to be telling the truth of the 3 claimed cops, I believe. (Of course, it's guaranteed that 2 of them are truthful)

Why?

Again I donít think this is a good conversation to be having today when we arenít lynching cops.

I don't want to lynch any of them but it's very possible that one of them is actively working against the town - I think this is all fair to consider since we were sheeping their IC perspectives 24 hours ago.

@LaLight your jumping in first to claim cop and DatSwan being the very last to claim based on signup order are the most convenient/safe places to claim. Again, we hadn't fully decided on doing signup order when you made your claim.

How in the world would it be safer to claim first? Traitor wanted claims to split evenly Ė 2-2 for the best effect. I knew no one really scumread me then and if I were Traitor I would pick a popcorn order.

Why would DatSwan claim sane cop? He could claim Insane and then when the real insane cop stepped up, no one would believe them

Correct, we could lynch them that day and then we would lynch DatSwan the next day. In the meantime, we have 2 ICs and cops. In this scenario that's actually happening, if he is scum he is setting up a 1 in 3 where we know one person is lying but we have no ICs and there is a lot more confusion. Down the line we will be able to piece it together, but right now we are hesitant to lynch any of you, meaning you all - including the likely scum among you, have some survivability. And in fact, the scum has the most since they won't be night killed.

Wait, how do we have 2 ICs?

I actually think scum messed up here, because they can't kill the cops because that will PoE them.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on August 28, 2018, 02:18:30 pm
In this situation at this point, I believe e more than LaLight or DatSwan given both claim order and e's analysis of this.

After everything LaLight has said, I still stand by this - e is most likely to be telling the truth of the 3 claimed cops, I believe. (Of course, it's guaranteed that 2 of them are truthful)

Why?

Again I donít think this is a good conversation to be having today when we arenít lynching cops.

I don't want to lynch any of them but it's very possible that one of them is actively working against the town - I think this is all fair to consider since we were sheeping their IC perspectives 24 hours ago.

@LaLight your jumping in first to claim cop and DatSwan being the very last to claim based on signup order are the most convenient/safe places to claim. Again, we hadn't fully decided on doing signup order when you made your claim.

How in the world would it be safer to claim first? Traitor wanted claims to split evenly Ė 2-2 for the best effect. I knew no one really scumread me then and if I were Traitor I would pick a popcorn order.

Why would DatSwan claim sane cop? He could claim Insane and then when the real insane cop stepped up, no one would believe them

Correct, we could lynch them that day and then we would lynch DatSwan the next day. In the meantime, we have 2 ICs and cops. In this scenario that's actually happening, if he is scum he is setting up a 1 in 3 where we know one person is lying but we have no ICs and there is a lot more confusion. Down the line we will be able to piece it together, but right now we are hesitant to lynch any of you, meaning you all - including the likely scum among you, have some survivability. And in fact, the scum has the most since they won't be night killed.

Wait, how do we have 2 ICs?

I actually think scum messed up here, because they can't kill the cops because that will PoE them.

We do not have 2 ICs. I was talking about a hypothetical situation in which Scum DatSwan claimed to be the insane cop, after seeing that the actual insane cop did not claim.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Joseph2302 on August 28, 2018, 02:21:19 pm
My lynchpool for today among the VTs are Dsell, Galzria or Awaclus

Why don't you include Robz?  Although I agree with you on the first two, but why Awaclus?
I agree, Awaclus seems somewhat more helpful than usual
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on August 28, 2018, 02:24:15 pm
We do not have 2 ICs. I was talking about a hypothetical situation in which Scum DatSwan claimed to be the insane cop, after seeing that the actual insane cop did not claim.

To expand on this - LaLight was saying that DatSwan has to be telling the truth, because scum in DatSwan's situation would have simply claimed insane cop.

I pointed out that this is not necessarily beneficial for Scum DatSwan because it sets up a 1 v 1 - even if we lynch the wrong person on the first day, we will correctly kill scum DatSwan on the second day. And in this scenario, the sane cops are unopposed, so we would have gotten 2 IC cops.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on August 28, 2018, 02:25:55 pm
In this situation at this point, I believe e more than LaLight or DatSwan given both claim order and e's analysis of this.

After everything LaLight has said, I still stand by this - e is most likely to be telling the truth of the 3 claimed cops, I believe. (Of course, it's guaranteed that 2 of them are truthful)

Why?

Again I donít think this is a good conversation to be having today when we arenít lynching cops.

I don't want to lynch any of them but it's very possible that one of them is actively working against the town - I think this is all fair to consider since we were sheeping their IC perspectives 24 hours ago.

@LaLight your jumping in first to claim cop and DatSwan being the very last to claim based on signup order are the most convenient/safe places to claim. Again, we hadn't fully decided on doing signup order when you made your claim.

How in the world would it be safer to claim first? Traitor wanted claims to split evenly Ė 2-2 for the best effect. I knew no one really scumread me then and if I were Traitor I would pick a popcorn order.

Why would DatSwan claim sane cop? He could claim Insane and then when the real insane cop stepped up, no one would believe them

Correct, we could lynch them that day and then we would lynch DatSwan the next day. In the meantime, we have 2 ICs and cops. In this scenario that's actually happening, if he is scum he is setting up a 1 in 3 where we know one person is lying but we have no ICs and there is a lot more confusion. Down the line we will be able to piece it together, but right now we are hesitant to lynch any of you, meaning you all - including the likely scum among you, have some survivability. And in fact, the scum has the most since they won't be night killed.

Wait, how do we have 2 ICs?

I actually think scum messed up here, because they can't kill the cops because that will PoE them.

We do not have 2 ICs. I was talking about a hypothetical situation in which Scum DatSwan claimed to be the insane cop, after seeing that the actual insane cop did not claim.

Got it.  Not reading super carefully.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on August 28, 2018, 02:26:32 pm
My lynchpool for today among the VTs are Dsell, Galzria or Awaclus

Why don't you include Robz?  Although I agree with you on the first two, but why Awaclus?
I agree, Awaclus seems somewhat more helpful than usual

In what way?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Joseph2302 on August 28, 2018, 02:32:12 pm
My lynchpool for today among the VTs are Dsell, Galzria or Awaclus

Why don't you include Robz?  Although I agree with you on the first two, but why Awaclus?
I agree, Awaclus seems somewhat more helpful than usual

In what way?
Actually had some posts that were longer than their usually 3 word posts. There was some discussion from Awaclus against the stupid D1 quicklynch
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on August 28, 2018, 02:42:13 pm
My lynchpool for today among the VTs are Dsell, Galzria or Awaclus

Why don't you include Robz?  Although I agree with you on the first two, but why Awaclus?
I agree, Awaclus seems somewhat more helpful than usual

In what way?
Actually had some posts that were longer than their usually 3 word posts. There was some discussion from Awaclus against the stupid D1 quicklynch

I don't think > 3 word posts are outside their town meta, and I'm pretty sure everyone is against the stupid D1 quicklynch.  I still don't see it.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on August 28, 2018, 02:48:03 pm
My lynchpool for today among the VTs are Dsell, Galzria or Awaclus

Why don't you include Robz?  Although I agree with you on the first two, but why Awaclus?
I agree, Awaclus seems somewhat more helpful than usual

In what way?
Actually had some posts that were longer than their usually 3 word posts. There was some discussion from Awaclus against the stupid D1 quicklynch

I don't think > 3 word posts are outside their town meta, and I'm pretty sure everyone is against the stupid D1 quicklynch.  I still don't see it.

So, are you his scumpartner?

To be serious youíre doing the same as in Mafia 101
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on August 28, 2018, 02:53:44 pm
My lynchpool for today among the VTs are Dsell, Galzria or Awaclus

Why don't you include Robz?  Although I agree with you on the first two, but why Awaclus?
I agree, Awaclus seems somewhat more helpful than usual

In what way?
Actually had some posts that were longer than their usually 3 word posts. There was some discussion from Awaclus against the stupid D1 quicklynch

I don't think > 3 word posts are outside their town meta, and I'm pretty sure everyone is against the stupid D1 quicklynch.  I still don't see it.

So, are you his scumpartner?

To be serious youíre doing the same as in Mafia 101

I don't think it is as strong a case as galz or Dsell.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on August 28, 2018, 02:57:29 pm
My lynchpool for today among the VTs are Dsell, Galzria or Awaclus

Why don't you include Robz?  Although I agree with you on the first two, but why Awaclus?
I agree, Awaclus seems somewhat more helpful than usual

In what way?
Actually had some posts that were longer than their usually 3 word posts. There was some discussion from Awaclus against the stupid D1 quicklynch

I don't think > 3 word posts are outside their town meta, and I'm pretty sure everyone is against the stupid D1 quicklynch.  I still don't see it.

So, are you his scumpartner?

To be serious youíre doing the same as in Mafia 101

I don't think it is as strong a case as galz or Dsell.

Correct. Thatís why I am voting Galz. Also youíre town
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on August 28, 2018, 03:11:22 pm
My lynchpool for today among the VTs are Dsell, Galzria or Awaclus

Why don't you include Robz?  Although I agree with you on the first two, but why Awaclus?
I agree, Awaclus seems somewhat more helpful than usual

In what way?
Actually had some posts that were longer than their usually 3 word posts. There was some discussion from Awaclus against the stupid D1 quicklynch

I don't think > 3 word posts are outside their town meta, and I'm pretty sure everyone is against the stupid D1 quicklynch.  I still don't see it.

So, are you his scumpartner?

To be serious youíre doing the same as in Mafia 101

I don't think it is as strong a case as galz or Dsell.

Correct. Thatís why I am voting Galz. Also youíre town

I had to go back to 101 to see what you are talking about and now I get what youíre saying.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Joseph2302 on August 28, 2018, 03:39:22 pm
We do not have 2 ICs. I was talking about a hypothetical situation in which Scum DatSwan claimed to be the insane cop, after seeing that the actual insane cop did not claim.

To expand on this - LaLight was saying that DatSwan has to be telling the truth, because scum in DatSwan's situation would have simply claimed insane cop.

I pointed out that this is not necessarily beneficial for Scum DatSwan because it sets up a 1 v 1 - even if we lynch the wrong person on the first day, we will correctly kill scum DatSwan on the second day. And in this scenario, the sane cops are unopposed, so we would have gotten 2 IC cops.
I agree that DatSwan is most likely town because of this. Because there was a safe fake claim for them, and they chose not to take it
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Joseph2302 on August 28, 2018, 03:40:36 pm
But I'm not totally seeing the Dsell scum evidence. I think I'd prefer Glaz over Dsell, if these become the only 2 options.
But Robz really doesn't seem towny to me. What has he actually contributed this game, except a quicklynch?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Hydrad on August 28, 2018, 03:41:41 pm
I like gkrieg. Won't be voting there today.

Mcmc I'm also liking his last post so he's townies.

I could totally do a robz vote.

So Vote: robz

Even though we aren't lynching them today I think dat swan is like 10% scum lalight 40% and e 50%.

I think lalight is in a scummier position but his attitude is just feeling more like a town player I guess
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Joseph2302 on August 28, 2018, 03:50:42 pm
I like gkrieg. Won't be voting there today.

Mcmc I'm also liking his last post so he's townies.

I could totally do a robz vote.

So Vote: robz

Even though we aren't lynching them today I think dat swan is like 10% scum lalight 40% and e 50%.

I think lalight is in a scummier position but his attitude is just feeling more like a town player I guess
I'd prefer if we didn't give scum info on who our towniest cops are. We want to limit their information
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Joseph2302 on August 28, 2018, 03:51:17 pm
And we don't need to give away that information until such a time as we want to lynch a claimed cop
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Hydrad on August 28, 2018, 03:54:57 pm
I like gkrieg. Won't be voting there today.

Mcmc I'm also liking his last post so he's townies.

I could totally do a robz vote.

So Vote: robz

Even though we aren't lynching them today I think dat swan is like 10% scum lalight 40% and e 50%.

I think lalight is in a scummier position but his attitude is just feeling more like a town player I guess
I'd prefer if we didn't give scum info on who our towniest cops are. We want to limit their information

I guess. But honestly I'd be surprised if they even shoot a cop.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on August 28, 2018, 04:00:13 pm
We do not have 2 ICs. I was talking about a hypothetical situation in which Scum DatSwan claimed to be the insane cop, after seeing that the actual insane cop did not claim.

To expand on this - LaLight was saying that DatSwan has to be telling the truth, because scum in DatSwan's situation would have simply claimed insane cop.

I pointed out that this is not necessarily beneficial for Scum DatSwan because it sets up a 1 v 1 - even if we lynch the wrong person on the first day, we will correctly kill scum DatSwan on the second day. And in this scenario, the sane cops are unopposed, so we would have gotten 2 IC cops.
I agree that DatSwan is most likely town because of this. Because there was a safe fake claim for them, and they chose not to take it

I'm actually saying the exact opposite here. If DatSwan is scum, I think he made the smart move by claiming sane cop, rather than insane cop. If he had claimed insane cop, I think there was a good chance he would die tomorrow. By claiming sane cop, it makes the water really murky and we have 3 people who most likely have 1 scum between them, but it's too big of a risk to lynch any of them.

But that's only if DatSwan is scum. DatSwan could be town and telling the truth, and someone else fakeclaimed for a different reason.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Hydrad on August 28, 2018, 04:02:13 pm
We do not have 2 ICs. I was talking about a hypothetical situation in which Scum DatSwan claimed to be the insane cop, after seeing that the actual insane cop did not claim.

To expand on this - LaLight was saying that DatSwan has to be telling the truth, because scum in DatSwan's situation would have simply claimed insane cop.

I pointed out that this is not necessarily beneficial for Scum DatSwan because it sets up a 1 v 1 - even if we lynch the wrong person on the first day, we will correctly kill scum DatSwan on the second day. And in this scenario, the sane cops are unopposed, so we would have gotten 2 IC cops.
I agree that DatSwan is most likely town because of this. Because there was a safe fake claim for them, and they chose not to take it

I'm actually saying the exact opposite here. If DatSwan is scum, I think he made the smart move by claiming sane cop, rather than insane cop. If he had claimed insane cop, I think there was a good chance he would die tomorrow. By claiming sane cop, it makes the water really murky and we have 3 people who most likely have 1 scum between them, but it's too big of a risk to lynch any of them.

But that's only if DatSwan is scum. DatSwan could be town and telling the truth, and someone else fakeclaimed for a different reason.

I agree that datswan could have made that play. I guess if it was like a Faust or someone that made datswans play I would be more suspicious but datswan to me really feels town with that.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: iguanaiguana on August 28, 2018, 06:08:13 pm
Seal at Strawberry Hill Pulloff
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/66/9b/2c/669b2c8e618c6a736575075ea46b8747.jpg)

Vote count 2.3

Galzria (3): DatSwan, Awaclus, Lalight
Hydrad (1): 2.71828...
Robz888 (3): Joseph2302, gkrieg13, Hydrad

not voting (4): McMcsalot, Robz888, Dsell, Galzria

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 1 ends, Saturday, September 01, 2018, 05:30:00 pm
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Robz888 on August 28, 2018, 06:09:38 pm
I'll be catching up shortly.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on August 28, 2018, 06:32:02 pm
vote: galzria
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: DatSwan on August 28, 2018, 06:52:18 pm
unvote
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: mcmcsalot on August 28, 2018, 07:32:27 pm
vote: gkrieg
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Robz888 on August 28, 2018, 09:34:43 pm
Okay, I just read all of Day 2 so far. Had not seen that we have a silent Insane Cop (that sounds creepy...) until just now. Game just got a whole lot more exciting!

Apologies for my lurking, this game has my full attention now.

I've been going back and forth on the three cops. At first I was willing to give DatSwan IC status, but I really don't like that he chimed in after all the claims and then ****waited**** to say anything about how his result screws up everything. I think this significantly raises the chances of a scum DS who slowly worked it out in his personal QT that faking a town result would be a strong move.

I also agree with this post:

I'm actually saying the exact opposite here. If DatSwan is scum, I think he made the smart move by claiming sane cop, rather than insane cop. If he had claimed insane cop, I think there was a good chance he would die tomorrow. By claiming sane cop, it makes the water really murky and we have 3 people who most likely have 1 scum between them, but it's too big of a risk to lynch any of them.

But that's only if DatSwan is scum. DatSwan could be town and telling the truth, and someone else fakeclaimed for a different reason.

So I'm probably 50% certain DatSwan is scum, and 25% a piece for LL and E. LL seems townier, but E's quickhammer actually seems more likely to come from town IMO.

I'm pretty uncertain on the rest of you. Let's keep in mind it's really important not to quickhammer now, if we run the Insane Cop up to L-1 we need to give 'em time to claim.

I could see Galzria as scum but I'm far from certain. Dsell, too--not sure if this is first-game-back enthusiasm or scum enthusiasm.

Mcmc seems slightly townie to me, though not screaming obv!town as much as usual. Joseph seems town but I basically always read him as town. No read on Awaclus or hydrad, could be scum there, too.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Robz888 on August 28, 2018, 09:35:07 pm
Oh, and I forgot gkrieg. Not a terrible lynch.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Hydrad on August 28, 2018, 09:42:27 pm
The one funny thing about this game is assuming the claimed cop is the traitor is even the scum team is trying to figure out which one is the traitor. Which makes it really hard to even gain info once we know who the traitor is because scums reactions to them don't mean as much.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Robz888 on August 28, 2018, 09:43:59 pm
Good point! Vote: Hydrad
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Hydrad on August 28, 2018, 09:45:06 pm
Good point! Vote: Hydrad

this one i'm actually confused about why you would vote me.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Robz888 on August 28, 2018, 09:46:01 pm
Good point! Vote: Hydrad

this one i'm actually confused about why you would vote me.

You: "I don't know who the Traitor is, because I'm mafia and we didn't get that information. I'm just as confused as you!"
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Hydrad on August 28, 2018, 09:48:54 pm
Good point! Vote: Hydrad

this one i'm actually confused about why you would vote me.

You: "I don't know who the Traitor is, because I'm mafia and we didn't get that information. I'm just as confused as you!"

hmm. i guess you could see it that way. fair enough.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on August 28, 2018, 10:17:47 pm
I could see Galzria as scum but I'm far from certain. Dsell, too--not sure if this is first-game-back enthusiasm or scum enthusiasm.

First-game-back enthusiasm!  ;D
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: DatSwan on August 29, 2018, 03:08:42 am
Anyone who thinks that Skum is not gonna kill within the cops at this point is wrong. They either remove an IC or find their Traitor. It is the easiest choice in the world.

Allow me to fuck with that.

We have an unknown Cop out there that can verify any result.

I think the play is for all "cops" to decide on 2 total targets, that are not in the cop pool.
Town should vote who the 1 cop should be and who the 2 cops should be. Since the Traitor knows the Skum Players I cannot decide if it is beneficial or not if cops are involved in that vote. I want to say that cops should not have a vote in the selection, but I am not sure whether the WIFOM or gained knowledge is greater from that decision.
We then decide who should cop whom (whom should cop who?) - that assuredly should be a non-cop decision.
We then proceed to lynch outside the Cop Pool.

This would put Skum in the mindset of options as follows:
1) Framing is nullified for the night.
2) Kill one of the assured targets or take the 50-50 (think about it, it matter... because Traitor knows Skum, but Skum does NOT know traitor)
---- To elaborate, if we set an order for claims, they will have no way of knowing which decision is beneficial for them----
3) Kill a cop. This is an option. They have a 33% chance of finding the traitor. Buttttt, because of the UnkCop, if they do that we will get UnkCop+Result+reduced field within "cops"... soo it kind of limits their options on the next day. Town either has a greater chance lynching within the remaining cops or UKCop gets a result and we don't even have to try. 

So the UKCop should always pick the target from the double cop team. Either they both wake up with results and the UKCop can verify or deny those results, or only one wakes up and it puts skum in a 50-50 chance place of guessing correctly. And then there is the added benefit that if the player is one of the 2 skum we find them anyways.

Essentially, by implementing this plan it forces Skum to have to choose between killing a cop or killing a target. If they choose target, then there is a 50-50 chance the unkown cop can speak up and we have either an IC or skum. If they choose a cop - then either they find the traitor, and we still have a result, or they find a cop and we narrow the traitor down to 2 people and we still have a result. So it forces them into making a bad decision about limiting the "not cop" pool and not looking for the traitor, or limiting the cop pool knowing a traitor is still within it.

I cannot find a flaw in this. Obv the known cops have to claim first tomorrow. I volunteer to be the first to claim if the idea is taken, though we should decide on a second and third as well. For the second and third choice I have no problem with either being removed or being the first (or any order).


Dsell and Galz input on my assured errors would be appreciated.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: DatSwan on August 29, 2018, 03:14:06 am
god kill me... Awaclus - could you read that over and lmk what you think please.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: DatSwan on August 29, 2018, 03:30:02 am
I believe that there is skum in Robz/GK/Joseph.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Awaclus on August 29, 2018, 05:53:33 am
Anyone who thinks that Skum is not gonna kill within the cops at this point is wrong. They either remove an IC or find their Traitor. It is the easiest choice in the world.

Allow me to fuck with that.

We have an unknown Cop out there that can verify any result.

I think the play is for all "cops" to decide on 2 total targets, that are not in the cop pool.
Town should vote who the 1 cop should be and who the 2 cops should be. Since the Traitor knows the Skum Players I cannot decide if it is beneficial or not if cops are involved in that vote. I want to say that cops should not have a vote in the selection, but I am not sure whether the WIFOM or gained knowledge is greater from that decision.
We then decide who should cop whom (whom should cop who?) - that assuredly should be a non-cop decision.
We then proceed to lynch outside the Cop Pool.

This would put Skum in the mindset of options as follows:
1) Framing is nullified for the night.
2) Kill one of the assured targets or take the 50-50 (think about it, it matter... because Traitor knows Skum, but Skum does NOT know traitor)
---- To elaborate, if we set an order for claims, they will have no way of knowing which decision is beneficial for them----
3) Kill a cop. This is an option. They have a 33% chance of finding the traitor. Buttttt, because of the UnkCop, if they do that we will get UnkCop+Result+reduced field within "cops"... soo it kind of limits their options on the next day. Town either has a greater chance lynching within the remaining cops or UKCop gets a result and we don't even have to try. 

So the UKCop should always pick the target from the double cop team. Either they both wake up with results and the UKCop can verify or deny those results, or only one wakes up and it puts skum in a 50-50 chance place of guessing correctly. And then there is the added benefit that if the player is one of the 2 skum we find them anyways.

Essentially, by implementing this plan it forces Skum to have to choose between killing a cop or killing a target. If they choose target, then there is a 50-50 chance the unkown cop can speak up and we have either an IC or skum. If they choose a cop - then either they find the traitor, and we still have a result, or they find a cop and we narrow the traitor down to 2 people and we still have a result. So it forces them into making a bad decision about limiting the "not cop" pool and not looking for the traitor, or limiting the cop pool knowing a traitor is still within it.

I cannot find a flaw in this. Obv the known cops have to claim first tomorrow. I volunteer to be the first to claim if the idea is taken, though we should decide on a second and third as well. For the second and third choice I have no problem with either being removed or being the first (or any order).

I don't get it. Why is framing nullified for the night?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on August 29, 2018, 07:56:50 am
Galzria is so hard to lynch and Robz' wagon began the same size so quickly

Coincidence?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Robz888 on August 29, 2018, 08:37:35 am
I donít understand DSís plan.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: mcmcsalot on August 29, 2018, 08:50:17 am
I donít understand DSís plan.

I think I get it and if so I think itís bad.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: mcmcsalot on August 29, 2018, 09:04:28 am
DS is saying we should chose two cop targets T1 and T2 and then choose two of the claimed cops to investigate T1 and one of the claimed cops to investigate T2. He then goes on to say the insane cop who hasnít claimed yet should investigate also investigate T1.

He claims this nullifies framing which makes no sense. Scum would just know the targets and could easily frame both. We would then get scum results which we canít trust (because we could have caught scum or just framed townies). So yea right there itís a terrible plan.

He then goes on to explain what this does to who scum should choose to kill which for the final time can we STOP DISCUSSING who we think scum should kill and what cops we trust. If I was scum I would have 100% made up my mind of what Iím doing tonight solely based off the discussion from the last couple days.

The plan as I already explained that actually makes sense if purely for all the cops to try and target as many different people as possible so that tomorrow we have lots of results to work with some of which we can trust and eventually trust 100% once we deal with the false cop issue (which we should not be dealing with today).
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Robz888 on August 29, 2018, 09:07:15 am
Yeah I think it's better for cops to target a wide range of people. Unlike mcmc, I do not think it's bad to, uh, discuss our reads.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: mcmcsalot on August 29, 2018, 09:08:49 am
I believe that there is skum in Robz/GK/Joseph.

This is highly statistically likely and only serves to say ďhey these people are lynchable since Iíll sheep a case on themĒ
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: mcmcsalot on August 29, 2018, 09:12:28 am
Yeah I think it's better for cops to target a wide range of people. Unlike mcmc, I do not think it's bad to, uh, discuss our reads.

Just our reads on the cops. I donít want us telling scum which cops we trust.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Robz888 on August 29, 2018, 09:17:04 am
Yeah I think it's better for cops to target a wide range of people. Unlike mcmc, I do not think it's bad to, uh, discuss our reads.

Just our reads on the cops. I donít want us telling scum which cops we trust.

I don't think it signals that much of importance. Like, I trust LaLight the most at the moment, but that could easily and immediately change.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: mcmcsalot on August 29, 2018, 09:59:54 am
Galzria is so hard to lynch and Robz' wagon began the same size so quickly

Coincidence?
Letís investigate this

not omgus - Galz isn't this stupid.

Vote: Galz
This was was swan said the cops shouldnít claim because he forgot about framing as a possibility and galz said we was wrong and voted swan, then swan omgussed before correcting himself.

as for who is scummy out of the "vts" galz this game is feeling scummy to me just because I feel like he was fighting the plan the most out of everyone. Which doesn't mean its really a bad thing. Its just in my eyes it was so towny of a plan that I couldn't really understand why galz would fight it. I guess there is also the thought that if he was scum would he step out that far to fight it and make himself the center of attention?

Either way I don't have many other reads I think so

Vote: Galz
Hydrads galz vote for fighting the plan yesterday. Which he really didnít do. This comes at the point where we assume the plan has worked and swan is the insane cop.

unvote

God Idk how to handle this and I have been thinking about it for like a whole day now. I hate to open this up to another CC possibility, but just in case either LL or e! like didnít actually search Faust or some other reason... Iím just gonna our it. If one of you had a pro play in the makes and Iím messing it up Iím sorry.

I am a cop and i also (meaning the 3rd of 3) searched Faust last night and my result was he was town.
The unvote that I believe was missed in vote counts. Actually strange that swan left this vote for so long but I donít think he posted much in between.

So galz is now sitting at 1 vote from hydrad which isnít great. Then we get to the 28th where people are more active.

Vote: Galz

vote: Galz
Galz gets two naked votes bringing him to 3 total. I think lalight did do some explaining of his vote but this is a weak L-3 wagon not something scum is actively trying to stop if galz was scum.

also I am surprised Robz, Joseph and gkrieg are in this game
So am I. I'm here, I've posted some reads.
And I think we should lynch VT for all the reasons mentioned before (that I don't feel the need to repeat).

But going back to D1, Robz pushed that quickhammer a lot. And has done nothing else this game. So, Vote: Robz
This is the first robz vote, not a bad vote. Robz did encourage the quicklynch unfortunately I think pps was scummy and town!robz wants to go through with that quicklynch just as much as scum!robz.

I agree a lot with Joseph here.

vote: Robz
Gkrieg sheeps joseph, I think this is a scummy vote. Itís opportunistic and Josephís point is weak.

I like gkrieg. Won't be voting there today.

Mcmc I'm also liking his last post so he's townies.

I could totally do a robz vote.

So Vote: robz

Even though we aren't lynching them today I think dat swan is like 10% scum lalight 40% and e 50%.

I think lalight is in a scummier position but his attitude is just feeling more like a town player I guess
Hydrad votes robz says he wonít vote gkrieg which is strange. Heís towny in me, and then finishes with a vote robz. This is very strange as he was voting for galz, he doesnít address galz at all and just moves over to robz saying he could totally do it...

Hydrads move puts robz at 3 votes and drops galz down to 2 votes.

vote: galzria
Gkrieg then jumps off of robz and on to galz making Robzís wagon 2 and Galz wagon 3.


So if anything robz got some quick heat and gkrieg/hydrad flip flopped places but all the votes came around the same times and all the votes are bad.

I largely want to lynch gkrieg or hydrad.

Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on August 29, 2018, 10:07:09 am
Loving the level of participation from Robz and Mcmc. It does seem like DatSwan is forgetting that there are 2 mafia framers and can frame 2 targets.

There have been a weird number of errors regarding the setup in this game. Everyone should 100% understand the setup, and if you don't please go back and reread it. If you are town and don't fully get the setup, that is actively going to hurt town as we try to puzzle certain things together.

I can do rereads on Gkrieg and Hydrad today, probably.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Robz888 on August 29, 2018, 10:11:33 am
I confess I'm only 85% sure I know the answer to this: if a Framer frames a townie, and the Insane Cop investigates this townie, does the Insane Cop get the result "town"?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on August 29, 2018, 10:17:15 am
I confess I'm only 85% sure I know the answer to this: if a Framer frames a townie, and the Insane Cop investigates this townie, does the Insane Cop get the result "town"?

Yes. The townie would show up as "scum" for investigations, and so the insane cop will show the opposite of that.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Robz888 on August 29, 2018, 10:22:18 am
Thanks.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: mcmcsalot on August 29, 2018, 10:24:33 am
I confess I'm only 85% sure I know the answer to this: if a Framer frames a townie, and the Insane Cop investigates this townie, does the Insane Cop get the result "town"?

Yes. The townie would show up as "scum" for investigations, and so the insane cop will show the opposite of that.

Correct. So since the plan worked so well, all three of the real cops do infact know their sanity for 100% and a ďtownĒ result for sane cops and ďscumĒ result for insane cops can be trusted with almost certainty. The only exception is the traitor returns a ďtownĒ result until they are recruited.

Once the insane cop claims we can 100% trust their results. One of the three claimed sane cops is traitor/scum so we wonít know which ones to trust until we eventually flip some of them.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Awaclus on August 29, 2018, 10:57:11 am
There have been a weird number of errors regarding the setup in this game. Everyone should 100% understand the setup, and if you don't please go back and reread it. If you are town and don't fully get the setup, that is actively going to hurt town as we try to puzzle certain things together.

This. Personally I re-read the setup every time I post or think about anything setup-related, there's a lot of things and it's easy to forget something.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Galzria on August 29, 2018, 11:16:58 am
Loving the level of participation from Robz and Mcmc. It does seem like DatSwan is forgetting that there are 2 mafia framers and can frame 2 targets.

There have been a weird number of errors regarding the setup in this game. Everyone should 100% understand the setup, and if you don't please go back and reread it. If you are town and don't fully get the setup, that is actively going to hurt town as we try to puzzle certain things together.

I can do rereads on Gkrieg and Hydrad today, probably.

I admit to being guilty of the same thing Swan is here if that's accurate - I thought framing was a community power for scum.

Sorry I've been absent yesterday. I should have a small amount of time today, and then a decent chunk of time tomorrow.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: mcmcsalot on August 29, 2018, 11:29:47 am
Iguana can both of the mafia framers frame different player each night?
Also can a mafia framer frame someone and nightkill at the same time


I think the answer to both of these is yes but might as well double check.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on August 29, 2018, 11:41:45 am
what is the point of doubleframing tho
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: mcmcsalot on August 29, 2018, 12:08:40 pm
what is the point of doubleframing tho
There isnít the question is asking if they can frame two players at night or just one.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: 2.71828..... on August 29, 2018, 12:56:04 pm
I don't think cops should coordinate today, just gives scum more information. Coordination was required to confirm sanities, but beyond that the less info we give scum the better.

Still like my hydrad vote
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: mcmcsalot on August 29, 2018, 01:05:37 pm
I don't think cops should coordinate today, just gives scum more information. Coordination was required to confirm sanities, but beyond that the less info we give scum the better.

Still like my hydrad vote

What do you think about gkrieg?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on August 29, 2018, 01:08:50 pm
I don't think cops should coordinate today, just gives scum more information. Coordination was required to confirm sanities, but beyond that the less info we give scum the better.

Still like my hydrad vote

The last time you voted for him was 8 pages ago before all this shit went down. Do you have any new or updated reasoning? Or pretty much just the same reasons?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: 2.71828..... on August 29, 2018, 01:12:09 pm
I don't think cops should coordinate today, just gives scum more information. Coordination was required to confirm sanities, but beyond that the less info we give scum the better.

Still like my hydrad vote

The last time you voted for him was 8 pages ago before all this shit went down. Do you have any new or updated reasoning? Or pretty much just the same reasons?

Pretty much the same reasons. Didn't see anything new over the last few pages that convinced me otherwise.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: 2.71828..... on August 29, 2018, 01:13:41 pm
I don't think cops should coordinate today, just gives scum more information. Coordination was required to confirm sanities, but beyond that the less info we give scum the better.

Still like my hydrad vote

What do you think about gkrieg?

I don't have a strong opinion. Need to reread him
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on August 29, 2018, 01:29:38 pm
Oh, and I forgot gkrieg. Not a terrible lynch.

Why do you say a lot about many other people, then just throw this in there?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on August 29, 2018, 01:30:51 pm
I believe that there is skum in Robz/GK/Joseph.

Any reasoning?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on August 29, 2018, 01:42:10 pm
also I am surprised Robz, Joseph and gkrieg are in this game
So am I. I'm here, I've posted some reads.
And I think we should lynch VT for all the reasons mentioned before (that I don't feel the need to repeat).

But going back to D1, Robz pushed that quickhammer a lot. And has done nothing else this game. So, Vote: Robz
This is the first robz vote, not a bad vote. Robz did encourage the quicklynch unfortunately I think pps was scummy and town!robz wants to go through with that quicklynch just as much as scum!robz.

I agree a lot with Joseph here.

vote: Robz
Gkrieg sheeps joseph, I think this is a scummy vote. Itís opportunistic and Josephís point is weak.

Why is the vote opportunistic?  I know I'm town, I am guessing that e is town.  If Robz is town, then that means that he pushed for a quickhammer as town on town and then two town went and hammered PPS.  That seems unlikely to me.  You also say that Joseph's vote was good, but that his point was weak?  How does sheeping a good vote make me opportunistic, and why is Joseph's point weak?

I like gkrieg. Won't be voting there today.

Mcmc I'm also liking his last post so he's townies.

I could totally do a robz vote.

So Vote: robz

Even though we aren't lynching them today I think dat swan is like 10% scum lalight 40% and e 50%.

I think lalight is in a scummier position but his attitude is just feeling more like a town player I guess
Hydrad votes robz says he wonít vote gkrieg which is strange. Heís towny in me, and then finishes with a vote robz. This is very strange as he was voting for galz, he doesnít address galz at all and just moves over to robz saying he could totally do it...

Hydrads move puts robz at 3 votes and drops galz down to 2 votes.

vote: galzria
Gkrieg then jumps off of robz and on to galz making Robzís wagon 2 and Galz wagon 3.


So if anything robz got some quick heat and gkrieg/hydrad flip flopped places but all the votes came around the same times and all the votes are bad.

I largely want to lynch gkrieg or hydrad.

What do you mean as all the votes are bad?  Galzria was coaching the traitor.  Robz pushed a bad (in hindsight) quickhammer, which is completely something scum!Robz would do (I agree that town!Robz would do it, but I think it is much less likely), and I think it is extremely unlikely that a town pushes a quickhammer on another town that 2 towns then execute.  Normally I would be putting the scumread on e, because I think it was a scummy hammer, but I think he had the towniest cop claim (with LaLight being an extremely close second).  You also literally say that Joseph's vote on Robz was not bad, then say that all the votes are bad.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on August 29, 2018, 01:43:44 pm
I confess I'm only 85% sure I know the answer to this: if a Framer frames a townie, and the Insane Cop investigates this townie, does the Insane Cop get the result "town"?

Yes. The townie would show up as "scum" for investigations, and so the insane cop will show the opposite of that.

Correct. So since the plan worked so well, all three of the real cops do infact know their sanity for 100% and a ďtownĒ result for sane cops and ďscumĒ result for insane cops can be trusted with almost certainty. The only exception is the traitor returns a ďtownĒ result until they are recruited.

Once the insane cop claims we can 100% trust their results. One of the three claimed sane cops is traitor/scum so we wonít know which ones to trust until we eventually flip some of them.

Why can we 100% trust the results of the insane cop?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on August 29, 2018, 01:44:44 pm
what is the point of doubleframing tho
There isnít. The question is asking if they can frame two players at night or just one.

This took my like 3 readthroughs to parse.  I added punctuation in the quote.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on August 29, 2018, 01:45:55 pm
I don't think cops should coordinate today, just gives scum more information. Coordination was required to confirm sanities, but beyond that the less info we give scum the better.

Still like my hydrad vote

The last time you voted for him was 8 pages ago before all this shit went down. Do you have any new or updated reasoning? Or pretty much just the same reasons?

Weren't you the one that said that we shouldn't ask the cops for their reads?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: iguanaiguana on August 29, 2018, 01:49:57 pm
Iguana can both of the mafia framers frame different player each night?
Also can a mafia framer frame someone and nightkill at the same time


I think the answer to both of these is yes but might as well double check.

Yes to both.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on August 29, 2018, 01:50:34 pm
This all really makes sense. vote: Robz888. No, Vote: Dsell. No, vote: Robz888
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Galzria on August 29, 2018, 01:50:44 pm
Day 1 final vote count
Lalight (COP)(1): Awaclus (VT)
gkrieg13 (VT)(1): Hydrad (VT)
pingpongsam (7): faust, McMcsalot (VT), Joseph2302 (VT), Robz888 (VT), Lalight (COP), gkrieg13 (VT), 2.71828... (COP)

not voting (4): Dsell (VT), DatSwan (COP), pingpongsam, Galzria (VT)

With 13 alive, it took 7 to lynch.

Thread Locked!


Starting here. Will use this as reference as I go through with my rereads and lay out my thoughts today/tomorrow
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on August 29, 2018, 02:03:01 pm
I don't think cops should coordinate today, just gives scum more information. Coordination was required to confirm sanities, but beyond that the less info we give scum the better.

Still like my hydrad vote

The last time you voted for him was 8 pages ago before all this shit went down. Do you have any new or updated reasoning? Or pretty much just the same reasons?

Weren't you the one that said that we shouldn't ask the cops for their reads?

I have definitely never said that.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Robz888 on August 29, 2018, 02:13:21 pm
Can framers frame the same person, thus double framing this person?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on August 29, 2018, 02:17:16 pm
Can framers frame the same person, thus double framing this person?

wat
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Galzria on August 29, 2018, 02:18:13 pm
Can framers frame the same person, thus double framing this person?

I would imagine not - framers don't flip alignment, they simply make the target a City (scum) for investigative purposes. They Miller the player in question.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: DatSwan on August 29, 2018, 03:22:26 pm
DS is saying we should chose two cop targets T1 and T2 and then choose two of the claimed cops to investigate T1 and one of the claimed cops to investigate T2. He then goes on to say the insane cop who hasnít claimed yet should investigate also investigate T1.

He claims this nullifies framing which makes no sense. Scum would just know the targets and could easily frame both. We would then get scum results which we canít trust (because we could have caught scum or just framed townies). So yea right there itís a terrible plan.

He then goes on to explain what this does to who scum should choose to kill which for the final time can we STOP DISCUSSING who we think scum should kill and what cops we trust. If I was scum I would have 100% made up my mind of what Iím doing tonight solely based off the discussion from the last couple days.

The plan as I already explained that actually makes sense if purely for all the cops to try and target as many different people as possible so that tomorrow we have lots of results to work with some of which we can trust and eventually trust 100% once we deal with the false cop issue (which we should not be dealing with today).


the nullification of framing was to say that the point is not to find skum in the search, but to find skum within the cops tomorrow. As the liar cannot actually search anyone, they will have to guess (hmm I guess unless their chosen Target is skum - i forgot they know who skum is). but whatever, my point was more to try and force another provable claim as opposed to just letting us all run wild and then the fake-cop has an easy out.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: DatSwan on August 29, 2018, 03:23:55 pm
DS is saying we should chose two cop targets T1 and T2 and then choose two of the claimed cops to investigate T1 and one of the claimed cops to investigate T2. He then goes on to say the insane cop who hasnít claimed yet should investigate also investigate T1.

He claims this nullifies framing which makes no sense. Scum would just know the targets and could easily frame both. We would then get scum results which we canít trust (because we could have caught scum or just framed townies). So yea right there itís a terrible plan.

He then goes on to explain what this does to who scum should choose to kill which for the final time can we STOP DISCUSSING who we think scum should kill and what cops we trust. If I was scum I would have 100% made up my mind of what Iím doing tonight solely based off the discussion from the last couple days.

The plan as I already explained that actually makes sense if purely for all the cops to try and target as many different people as possible so that tomorrow we have lots of results to work with some of which we can trust and eventually trust 100% once we deal with the false cop issue (which we should not be dealing with today).

again, tomorrow is not today.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Awaclus on August 29, 2018, 03:39:44 pm
DS is saying we should chose two cop targets T1 and T2 and then choose two of the claimed cops to investigate T1 and one of the claimed cops to investigate T2. He then goes on to say the insane cop who hasnít claimed yet should investigate also investigate T1.

He claims this nullifies framing which makes no sense. Scum would just know the targets and could easily frame both. We would then get scum results which we canít trust (because we could have caught scum or just framed townies). So yea right there itís a terrible plan.

He then goes on to explain what this does to who scum should choose to kill which for the final time can we STOP DISCUSSING who we think scum should kill and what cops we trust. If I was scum I would have 100% made up my mind of what Iím doing tonight solely based off the discussion from the last couple days.

The plan as I already explained that actually makes sense if purely for all the cops to try and target as many different people as possible so that tomorrow we have lots of results to work with some of which we can trust and eventually trust 100% once we deal with the false cop issue (which we should not be dealing with today).


the nullification of framing was to say that the point is not to find skum in the search, but to find skum within the cops tomorrow. As the liar cannot actually search anyone, they will have to guess (hmm I guess unless their chosen Target is skum - i forgot they know who skum is). but whatever, my point was more to try and force another provable claim as opposed to just letting us all run wild and then the fake-cop has an easy out.

I don't think that's worth it.

Here's a question for everyone that I think we need to answer before we even attempt to come up with a plan: Can we all agree that the traitor is one of the claimed cops beyond reasonable doubt?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on August 29, 2018, 03:40:05 pm
DS is saying we should chose two cop targets T1 and T2 and then choose two of the claimed cops to investigate T1 and one of the claimed cops to investigate T2. He then goes on to say the insane cop who hasnít claimed yet should investigate also investigate T1.

He claims this nullifies framing which makes no sense. Scum would just know the targets and could easily frame both. We would then get scum results which we canít trust (because we could have caught scum or just framed townies). So yea right there itís a terrible plan.

He then goes on to explain what this does to who scum should choose to kill which for the final time can we STOP DISCUSSING who we think scum should kill and what cops we trust. If I was scum I would have 100% made up my mind of what Iím doing tonight solely based off the discussion from the last couple days.

The plan as I already explained that actually makes sense if purely for all the cops to try and target as many different people as possible so that tomorrow we have lots of results to work with some of which we can trust and eventually trust 100% once we deal with the false cop issue (which we should not be dealing with today).


the nullification of framing was to say that the point is not to find skum in the search, but to find skum within the cops tomorrow. As the liar cannot actually search anyone, they will have to guess (hmm I guess unless their chosen Target is skum - i forgot they know who skum is). but whatever, my point was more to try and force another provable claim as opposed to just letting us all run wild and then the fake-cop has an easy out.

I don't think that's worth it.

Here's a question for everyone that I think we need to answer before we even attempt to come up with a plan: Can we all agree that the traitor is one of the claimed cops beyond reasonable doubt?

I do.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Awaclus on August 29, 2018, 03:41:10 pm
(i.e. the fake claiming cop isn't an insane town cop or main mafia member)
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on August 29, 2018, 03:43:50 pm
(i.e. the fake claiming cop isn't an insane town cop or main mafia member)

I mean it's not 100%, but I am 90-93% sure
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on August 29, 2018, 04:03:48 pm
Can we all agree that the traitor is one of the claimed cops beyond reasonable doubt?

I'm still confused on why the traitor claimed and the other mafia can't the be one that claimed.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Hydrad on August 29, 2018, 04:11:27 pm
I'm assuming the traitor is a cop.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Hydrad on August 29, 2018, 04:12:33 pm
Can we all agree that the traitor is one of the claimed cops beyond reasonable doubt?

I'm still confused on why the traitor claimed and the other mafia can't the be one that claimed.

I think the biggest risk would be. everyone has said that the traitor should claim. if normal scum tried to claim, traitor wouldn't know that normal scum claimed and traitor might still claim and then we might end up with 5 cops. which I doubt scum would like.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Robz888 on August 29, 2018, 04:14:29 pm
I don't think the Traitor is necessarily one of the cops, although there's a good chance of it. One reason being, this is a plan that two scum are more likely to have come up with than one scum on his own.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: DatSwan on August 29, 2018, 04:23:36 pm
I like gkrieg. Won't be voting there today.

Mcmc I'm also liking his last post so he's townies.

I could totally do a robz vote.

So Vote: robz

Even though we aren't lynching them today I think dat swan is like 10% scum lalight 40% and e 50%.

I think lalight is in a scummier position but his attitude is just feeling more like a town player I guess
I'd prefer if we didn't give scum info on who our towniest cops are. We want to limit their information

I guess. But honestly I'd be surprised if they even shoot a cop.

so if skum has to choose to kill inside cops or outside cops they are left with:

Inside Cops: 2/3 dead cop, 1/3 find traitor. If they find traitor at this point, with 3 in the pool it would be excellent for them. Worst case scenario is they ... kill a cop?
Outside Cops: 4/5 VTs, 1/5 Insane cop. So 20% chance to find the other cop (that would obv be like their dream case scenario)... but outside of that all they do is remove a VT from play, making it worse for them the next day because they will now be 2/6 in the outside pool. At that point the Insane Cop could just like... claim. Now they are 2/5. Let alone insane has a result.


I just don't get why there have been people thinking killing outside the cop pool is something that is realistically going to happen I guess. I don't think it matters, it has just been bugging me.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Hydrad on August 29, 2018, 04:25:31 pm
I like gkrieg. Won't be voting there today.

Mcmc I'm also liking his last post so he's townies.

I could totally do a robz vote.

So Vote: robz

Even though we aren't lynching them today I think dat swan is like 10% scum lalight 40% and e 50%.

I think lalight is in a scummier position but his attitude is just feeling more like a town player I guess
I'd prefer if we didn't give scum info on who our towniest cops are. We want to limit their information

I guess. But honestly I'd be surprised if they even shoot a cop.

so if skum has to choose to kill inside cops or outside cops they are left with:

Inside Cops: 2/3 dead cop, 1/3 find traitor. If they find traitor at this point, with 3 in the pool it would be excellent for them. Worst case scenario is they ... kill a cop?
Outside Cops: 4/5 VTs, 1/5 Insane cop. So 20% chance to find the other cop (that would obv be like their dream case scenario)... but outside of that all they do is remove a VT from play, making it worse for them the next day because they will now be 2/6 in the outside pool. At that point the Insane Cop could just like... claim. Now they are 2/5. Let alone insane has a result.


I just don't get why there have been people thinking killing outside the cop pool is something that is realistically going to happen I guess. I don't think it matters, it has just been bugging me.

The biggest reason I think is that once scum starts killing off cops. they are also kinda killing off their partner. because once the town cops are gone we know which one the scum is. If you leave the cops alive it makes us potentially kill our own cops by guessing what one to lynch.

Theres pluses and minuses for both though.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: DatSwan on August 29, 2018, 04:26:53 pm
this is silliness. The traitor is def one of the cops.
Skum has no value in putting themselves in this situation.

The only inherent upside to doing it would be that because Traitor knows who the skum partners are, I guess it is like a way of teamwork? In the sense that when the lynch pool goes to cops they gain an extra team mate in trying to avoid getting lynched?

yeah no that is all nonsense - traitor is the fake claimer.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: 2.71828..... on August 29, 2018, 04:27:28 pm
Can we all agree that the traitor is one of the claimed cops beyond reasonable doubt?

I don't think we can take it that far. I also don't think it is that important except where cops may want to focus investigations. And I really don't want to focus on that today at all. So I don't actually really like the question at all
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Galzria on August 29, 2018, 04:28:17 pm
Can we all agree that the traitor is one of the claimed cops beyond reasonable doubt?

I'm still confused on why the traitor claimed and the other mafia can't the be one that claimed.

I think the biggest risk would be. everyone has said that the traitor should claim. if normal scum tried to claim, traitor wouldn't know that normal scum claimed and traitor might still claim and then we might end up with 5 cops. which I doubt scum would like.

Traitor knows who his scummates are - if a regular scum claimed, the traitor would know instantly.

This does not work in reverse however - if the Traitor claimed, there would be risk in regular scum claiming of ending up with far too many claims.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: DatSwan on August 29, 2018, 04:29:14 pm
I like gkrieg. Won't be voting there today.

Mcmc I'm also liking his last post so he's townies.

I could totally do a robz vote.

So Vote: robz

Even though we aren't lynching them today I think dat swan is like 10% scum lalight 40% and e 50%.

I think lalight is in a scummier position but his attitude is just feeling more like a town player I guess
I'd prefer if we didn't give scum info on who our towniest cops are. We want to limit their information

I guess. But honestly I'd be surprised if they even shoot a cop.

so if skum has to choose to kill inside cops or outside cops they are left with:

Inside Cops: 2/3 dead cop, 1/3 find traitor. If they find traitor at this point, with 3 in the pool it would be excellent for them. Worst case scenario is they ... kill a cop?
Outside Cops: 4/5 VTs, 1/5 Insane cop. So 20% chance to find the other cop (that would obv be like their dream case scenario)... but outside of that all they do is remove a VT from play, making it worse for them the next day because they will now be 2/6 in the outside pool. At that point the Insane Cop could just like... claim. Now they are 2/5. Let alone insane has a result.


I just don't get why there have been people thinking killing outside the cop pool is something that is realistically going to happen I guess. I don't think it matters, it has just been bugging me.

The biggest reason I think is that once scum starts killing off cops. they are also kinda killing off their partner. because once the town cops are gone we know which one the scum is. If you leave the cops alive it makes us potentially kill our own cops by guessing what one to lynch.

Theres pluses and minuses for both though.


would like to point out that the value in THEM killing is that they could find and recruit the traitor.
the value in US lynching is that if we lynch the traitor they cannot be recruited.

Those wincons are, as they should be, 100% opposite.

The only thing is that by guessing wrong on the traitor tonight, they create a 50-50 lynch chance tomorrow... which when you add in the odds of finding the traitor, aint that bad.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Galzria on August 29, 2018, 04:30:15 pm
Can we all agree that the traitor is one of the claimed cops beyond reasonable doubt?

Most likely, yes, that's correct.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: mcmcsalot on August 29, 2018, 04:38:07 pm
Why in the hell are people so concerned with who sckum should be killing tonight.

STOOOOOOOOOOP

There is even a traitor who is loving his discussion. Iím so so sick of it.

Also swan your ďtry to catch the false cop planĒ fails 99% of the time. The only scenario where he false cop doesnít know what to claim for the targets alignment is if the false cop is the traitor who is forced to claim first and the target was framed and they state the true alignment. Thatís it. Itís a far fetched plan hat wastes the cops potential actual results that become probable upon flips. So for Christ sake cops try and investigate different people who donít get framed and arenít the traitor, and letís move on to scumhuntibg from our pool of vanilla townies.


Gkrieg defense did nothing for me.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: 2.71828..... on August 29, 2018, 04:49:30 pm
Just reread gkrieg and there wasn't anything that popped out as super scummy or super towny. I would say he is in the "would lynch" category, not really the "want to lynch"
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: mcmcsalot on August 29, 2018, 04:59:24 pm
snip
Why is the vote opportunistic?  I know I'm town, I am guessing that e is town.  If Robz is town, then that means that he pushed for a quickhammer as town on town and then two town went and hammered PPS.  That seems unlikely to me.  You also say that Joseph's vote was good, but that his point was weak?  How does sheeping a good vote make me opportunistic, and why is Joseph's point weak?
You said you agreed a lot with Joseph saying robz was scummy for pushing the quicklynch. Now you are claiming you find robz position on the wagon scummy which also makes very little sense.
Robz was the 4th in a wagon of 7. Sure conveniently you are the l-1 vote (you know the scummy one) and the 5th/7th votes are pseudo icís. I donít think town!gkrieg think just because votes 5/6/7 are potentially all town that makes vote 4 scum over votes 2/3 (myself and Joseph, the person you are sheeping...). So your explanation actually reeks of scum justification saying ďI know Iím town and that means this other player has to be scumĒ, when it really doesnít mean that.

snip

What do you mean as all the votes are bad?  Galzria was coaching the traitor.  Robz pushed a bad (in hindsight) quickhammer, which is completely something scum!Robz would do (I agree that town!Robz would do it, but I think it is much less likely), and I think it is extremely unlikely that a town pushes a quickhammer on another town that 2 towns then execute.  Normally I would be putting the scumread on e, because I think it was a scummy hammer, but I think he had the towniest cop claim (with LaLight being an extremely close second).  You also literally say that Joseph's vote on Robz was not bad, then say that all the votes are bad.
I mean that I think the galz vote and robz votes are not likely votes for scum. The ďgalzria was coaching the traitorĒ argument is in my opinion a bad one, I think galz was just fleshing out plan, but admittedly I should take a second look at galz from yesterday. The robz votes are bad because as I explained heís very likely to push a day one quicklynch as either alignment on a player who clearly many town players found scummy. I think the Joseph vote on robz was not scummy coming from Joseph (a player I donít think is as good/effortfull in reads compared to you) and your sheep vote was opportunistic because it didnít add to anything other than agree with Joseph, itís all become increasingly scummy with your defense of the vote.

We should be lynching gkrieg
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on August 29, 2018, 05:26:34 pm
I don't think the Traitor is necessarily one of the cops, although there's a good chance of it. One reason being, this is a plan that two scum are more likely to have come up with than one scum on his own.

I want to call this a scum slip, but traitor know mafia instead of the other way around.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on August 29, 2018, 05:27:25 pm
Can we all agree that the traitor is one of the claimed cops beyond reasonable doubt?

I'm still confused on why the traitor claimed and the other mafia can't the be one that claimed.

I think the biggest risk would be. everyone has said that the traitor should claim. if normal scum tried to claim, traitor wouldn't know that normal scum claimed and traitor might still claim and then we might end up with 5 cops. which I doubt scum would like.

Traitor knows who his scummates are - if a regular scum claimed, the traitor would know instantly.

This does not work in reverse however - if the Traitor claimed, there would be risk in regular scum claiming of ending up with far too many claims.

Oh ok, I think I get it now.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on August 29, 2018, 05:30:22 pm
snip
Why is the vote opportunistic?  I know I'm town, I am guessing that e is town.  If Robz is town, then that means that he pushed for a quickhammer as town on town and then two town went and hammered PPS.  That seems unlikely to me.  You also say that Joseph's vote was good, but that his point was weak?  How does sheeping a good vote make me opportunistic, and why is Joseph's point weak?
You said you agreed a lot with Joseph saying robz was scummy for pushing the quicklynch. Now you are claiming you find robz position on the wagon scummy which also makes very little sense.
Robz was the 4th in a wagon of 7. Sure conveniently you are the l-1 vote (you know the scummy one) and the 5th/7th votes are pseudo icís. I donít think town!gkrieg think just because votes 5/6/7 are potentially all town that makes vote 4 scum over votes 2/3 (myself and Joseph, the person you are sheeping...). So your explanation actually reeks of scum justification saying ďI know Iím town and that means this other player has to be scumĒ, when it really doesnít mean that.

Oh, didn't realize Robz was the 4th on the wagon and not the 5th.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: iguanaiguana on August 29, 2018, 05:31:08 pm
Orca & Mt. Baker from San Juan Islands
(https://www.nature.org/cs/groups/webcontent/@web/@giftplanning/documents/media/san-juan-islands-orca.jpg)

Vote count 2.4

Galzria (2): Awaclus, gkrieg13
Hydrad (2): 2.71828..., Robz888
Robz888 (3): Joseph2302, Hydrad, Lalight
gkrieg13 (1): McMcsalot

not voting (3): Dsell, Galzria, DatSwan

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 1 ends, Saturday, September 01, 2018, 05:30:00 pm
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on August 29, 2018, 05:35:50 pm
snip

What do you mean as all the votes are bad?  Galzria was coaching the traitor.  Robz pushed a bad (in hindsight) quickhammer, which is completely something scum!Robz would do (I agree that town!Robz would do it, but I think it is much less likely), and I think it is extremely unlikely that a town pushes a quickhammer on another town that 2 towns then execute.  Normally I would be putting the scumread on e, because I think it was a scummy hammer, but I think he had the towniest cop claim (with LaLight being an extremely close second).  You also literally say that Joseph's vote on Robz was not bad, then say that all the votes are bad.
I mean that I think the galz vote and robz votes are not likely votes for scum. The ďgalzria was coaching the traitorĒ argument is in my opinion a bad one, I think galz was just fleshing out plan, but admittedly I should take a second look at galz from yesterday. The robz votes are bad because as I explained heís very likely to push a day one quicklynch as either alignment on a player who clearly many town players found scummy. I think the Joseph vote on robz was not scummy coming from Joseph (a player I donít think is as good/effortfull in reads compared to you) and your sheep vote was opportunistic because it didnít add to anything other than agree with Joseph, itís all become increasingly scummy with your defense of the vote.

We should be lynching gkrieg

Scum and the traitor had a worst case scenario where both traitor and scum each claim cop.  Coaching the traitor (or really saying anything about the traitor) before everyone had claimed is scummy. 

I think Robz is much more likely to push a quicklynch as scum than he is as town. 
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: DatSwan on August 29, 2018, 05:43:02 pm
Why in the hell are people so concerned with who sckum should be killing tonight.

STOOOOOOOOOOP

There is even a traitor who is loving his discussion. Iím so so sick of it.

Also swan your ďtry to catch the false cop planĒ fails 99% of the time. The only scenario where he false cop doesnít know what to claim for the targets alignment is if the false cop is the traitor who is forced to claim first and the target was framed and they state the true alignment. Thatís it. Itís a far fetched plan hat wastes the cops potential actual results that become probable upon flips. So for Christ sake cops try and investigate different people who donít get framed and arenít the traitor, and letís move on to scumhuntibg from our pool of vanilla townies.


Gkrieg defense did nothing for me.

I will stop discussing it. But there is a flaw in your reasoning. Tomorrow or sometime you should look at it.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Robz888 on August 29, 2018, 09:48:22 pm
I don't think the Traitor is necessarily one of the cops, although there's a good chance of it. One reason being, this is a plan that two scum are more likely to have come up with than one scum on his own.

I want to call this a scum slip, but traitor know mafia instead of the other way around.

Why would this be a scumslip? What is scumslip-y about this?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on August 29, 2018, 11:53:49 pm
Iguana: If a (sane) cop investigates the traitor the same night that the mafia kill the traitor, would the traitor show up as town or scum?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on August 29, 2018, 11:54:15 pm
Iguana: If a (sane) cop investigates the traitor the same night that the mafia kill the traitor, would the traitor show up as town or scum?

And by kill, I obviously mean recruit.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: DatSwan on August 30, 2018, 12:32:32 am
Iguana: If a (sane) cop investigates the traitor the same night that the mafia kill the traitor, would the traitor show up as town or scum?

I mean II can confirm, but normally kill is the last resolution right? so they should show up town if left alone and Skum if framed.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: DatSwan on August 30, 2018, 12:33:37 am
I don't think the Traitor is necessarily one of the cops, although there's a good chance of it. One reason being, this is a plan that two scum are more likely to have come up with than one scum on his own.

I want to call this a scum slip, but traitor know mafia instead of the other way around.

Why would this be a scumslip? What is scumslip-y about this?

#SpaceReasoning :P
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on August 30, 2018, 01:10:37 am
I can do rereads on Gkrieg and Hydrad today, probably.

This didn't happen and I didn't have a lot of time for close reading of everything that happened today. I'm anticipating having some time tomorrow so I will really make an effort to do these rereads.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Joseph2302 on August 30, 2018, 02:21:14 am
Can we all agree that the traitor is one of the claimed cops beyond reasonable doubt?

I'm still confused on why the traitor claimed and the other mafia can't the be one that claimed.

I think the biggest risk would be. everyone has said that the traitor should claim. if normal scum tried to claim, traitor wouldn't know that normal scum claimed and traitor might still claim and then we might end up with 5 cops. which I doubt scum would like.
Doesn't the traitor know the scum?
So they would know if a scum fake claimed
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: DatSwan on August 30, 2018, 02:50:08 am
Can we all agree that the traitor is one of the claimed cops beyond reasonable doubt?

I'm still confused on why the traitor claimed and the other mafia can't the be one that claimed.

I think the biggest risk would be. everyone has said that the traitor should claim. if normal scum tried to claim, traitor wouldn't know that normal scum claimed and traitor might still claim and then we might end up with 5 cops. which I doubt scum would like.
Doesn't the traitor know the scum?
So they would know if a scum fake claimed

The traitor claimed to be put in the lynch pool.
The situation should be looked at as "Traitor claimed to narrow CC and be put in the lynch pool" it is the clear play.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: DatSwan on August 30, 2018, 02:59:12 am
so the cops are no longer IC.
and the populous does not want to lynch within the cops.

If we lynch within cops today then tomorrow we wake up to either "2 of the cops" (so traitor and a cop), or 1 cop (so they are the traitor). Worst case we have a 50-50 tomorrow. Why do we not want to lynch inside today? Giving more options to skum just seems like a bad game plan.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: DatSwan on August 30, 2018, 03:00:11 am
so the cops are no longer IC.
and the populous does not want to lynch within the cops.

If we lynch within cops today then tomorrow we wake up to either "2 of the cops" (so traitor and a cop), or 1 cop (so they are the traitor). Worst case we have a 50-50 tomorrow. Why do we not want to lynch inside today? Giving more options to skum just seems like a bad game plan.

this is predicated on the absolute fact that skum will CLEARLY kill within the cop pool tonight (because you are wrong if you disagree, the fake cop is the traitor).
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: DatSwan on August 30, 2018, 03:00:59 am
vote:LaLaight
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: DatSwan on August 30, 2018, 03:03:00 am
Details.

Vote: LaLight
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: DatSwan on August 30, 2018, 03:12:53 am
The ideal of voting outside the pool is dumb. We have a way better end game chance by voting within because we (while knowing sanity) do not know if someone was framed tomorrow. Let's say I am wrong and it is Skum and not the Traitor. Then whatever!!!! We have the same odds of finding skum today within the cops (way better than outside) and if it is skum and not traitor then they have to choose WIFOM or shooting outside the cop pool to find the traitor/unknown cop.

There was no fucking info from Day 1! What are we to make a lynch off of outside the pool?
The quicklynch - nope can't do that because they are in the cop pool.
LL/GK? well it cant be LL because they are in the cop pool (cough *set up* cough).
It is pitted against us!
GK and Galz are too obvious. Those players is how this skum tactic makes sense!

I wanna lynch in the cops, like for real even if it is me. But if that happens then the insane cop needs to keep shut and you need to lynch one of the other two tomorrow. Worst case we are -1 on the "IC cop set up" but we gain a free kill and the Insane Cop doesn't have to out for it.

Skum hasn't played well to this point, we have played shitty. Start thinking about how things play out.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Awaclus on August 30, 2018, 06:18:42 am
The ideal of voting outside the pool is dumb. We have a way better end game chance by voting within because we (while knowing sanity) do not know if someone was framed tomorrow. Let's say I am wrong and it is Skum and not the Traitor. Then whatever!!!! We have the same odds of finding skum today within the cops (way better than outside) and if it is skum and not traitor then they have to choose WIFOM or shooting outside the cop pool to find the traitor/unknown cop.

There was no fucking info from Day 1! What are we to make a lynch off of outside the pool?
The quicklynch - nope can't do that because they are in the cop pool.
LL/GK? well it cant be LL because they are in the cop pool (cough *set up* cough).
It is pitted against us!
GK and Galz are too obvious. Those players is how this skum tactic makes sense!

I wanna lynch in the cops, like for real even if it is me. But if that happens then the insane cop needs to keep shut and you need to lynch one of the other two tomorrow. Worst case we are -1 on the "IC cop set up" but we gain a free kill and the Insane Cop doesn't have to out for it.

Skum hasn't played well to this point, we have played shitty. Start thinking about how things play out.

This is a waste of time, we're not lynching from the cops today and there's a good reason why.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on August 30, 2018, 06:47:35 am
The ideal of voting outside the pool is dumb. We have a way better end game chance by voting within because we (while knowing sanity) do not know if someone was framed tomorrow. Let's say I am wrong and it is Skum and not the Traitor. Then whatever!!!! We have the same odds of finding skum today within the cops (way better than outside) and if it is skum and not traitor then they have to choose WIFOM or shooting outside the cop pool to find the traitor/unknown cop.

There was no fucking info from Day 1! What are we to make a lynch off of outside the pool?
The quicklynch - nope can't do that because they are in the cop pool.
LL/GK? well it cant be LL because they are in the cop pool (cough *set up* cough).
It is pitted against us!
GK and Galz are too obvious. Those players is how this skum tactic makes sense!

I wanna lynch in the cops, like for real even if it is me. But if that happens then the insane cop needs to keep shut and you need to lynch one of the other two tomorrow. Worst case we are -1 on the "IC cop set up" but we gain a free kill and the Insane Cop doesn't have to out for it.

Skum hasn't played well to this point, we have played shitty. Start thinking about how things play out.

This is a waste of time, we're not lynching from the cops today and there's a good reason why.

^This guy is telling the truth
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: mcmcsalot on August 30, 2018, 07:30:10 am
Swan how do you not get the basic premis of more cop results = better.

Say you cop me and get a town result. You claim this tomorrow and when you die Iím basically an IC. Play this out for the other coo as well thatís a potential of two icís from one night.

If we Lynch you and mafia kills the other cop we lose both those results and are down to one cop.

I gets it, you are so set on figuring out a way to guarantee finding the traitor/scum amongst the claimed cops you are willing to kill two of our cops to do it. Thatís a bad plan. So stop pushing it and do a reread of someone outside the cops. If you are town you are hurting this day like crazy be ranting not super well thought out plans just as we start getting real cases made.

I have no clue what you are trying to say about gkrieg being too obvious. I think his defense to my case on him is hella scummy.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: mcmcsalot on August 30, 2018, 09:11:22 am
post count:

Lalight - 94(5)
Dsell - 73(6)
Galzria - 67(4)
Datswan - 47(1)
Gkrieg - 40(3)
2.7 - 39(1)
Hydrad - 34(1)
Awaclus - 27(1)
mcmcsalot - 26(2)
Robz888 - 24(4)
Joseph2302 - 22(1)
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Robz888 on August 30, 2018, 09:19:49 am
Vote: gkrieg for not answering my question about why he thought my statement was a scum slip.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on August 30, 2018, 10:03:44 am
Vote: gkrieg for not answering my question about why he thought my statement was a scum slip.

? You said his instead of their, and I havenít posted since you asked the question.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Robz888 on August 30, 2018, 10:56:04 am
Vote: gkrieg for not answering my question about why he thought my statement was a scum slip.

? You said his instead of their, and I havenít posted since you asked the question.

Why would that be a scumslip, rather than a conscious choice to avoid the confusion of a plural pronoun?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on August 30, 2018, 11:19:36 am
Vote: gkrieg for not answering my question about why he thought my statement was a scum slip.

? You said his instead of their, and I havenít posted since you asked the question.

Why would that be a scumslip, rather than a conscious choice to avoid the confusion of a plural pronoun?

Because you point out the gender of a traitor. This is not a slip anyway, but this was my first thought as well. Discussing this is spreading confusion, carry on
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Awaclus on August 30, 2018, 11:30:30 am
Because you point out the gender of a traitor.

Which is not even noteworthy when everyone in the game is male.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Robz888 on August 30, 2018, 11:38:44 am
Vote: gkrieg for not answering my question about why he thought my statement was a scum slip.

? You said his instead of their,


But this doesn't signal any special knowledge I would have as the mafia.

This is not a slip anyway, but this was my first thought as well. Discussing this is spreading confusion, carry on

I'm pointing out a flawed argument. People who make flawed arguments are often scum, as mcmc says.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Robz888 on August 30, 2018, 11:39:39 am
I also know that I personally am waaaaaaaay more likely to call out potential scumslips when I am in fact scum. Not sure if this is true for other players, or for gkrieg, but it could be.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: 2.71828..... on August 30, 2018, 11:40:03 am
Vote: gkrieg for not answering my question about why he thought my statement was a scum slip.

? You said his instead of their, and I havenít posted since you asked the question.

Yeah, this is much ado about nothing from gkrieg. 2 days left? I can join the wagon

vote: gkrieg
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on August 30, 2018, 11:53:37 am
I have no idea whatís going on. Gkrieg hasnít remotely done anything as scummy as Galz and Dsell coaching the traitor or Robz with the quickwagon.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on August 30, 2018, 11:54:21 am
I mean, vote me, kill me, but i am not voting gkrieg over no lynch
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Joseph2302 on August 30, 2018, 11:58:45 am
The ideal of voting outside the pool is dumb. We have a way better end game chance by voting within because we (while knowing sanity) do not know if someone was framed tomorrow. Let's say I am wrong and it is Skum and not the Traitor. Then whatever!!!! We have the same odds of finding skum today within the cops (way better than outside) and if it is skum and not traitor then they have to choose WIFOM or shooting outside the cop pool to find the traitor/unknown cop.

There was no fucking info from Day 1! What are we to make a lynch off of outside the pool?
The quicklynch - nope can't do that because they are in the cop pool.
LL/GK? well it cant be LL because they are in the cop pool (cough *set up* cough).
It is pitted against us!
GK and Galz are too obvious. Those players is how this skum tactic makes sense!

I wanna lynch in the cops, like for real even if it is me. But if that happens then the insane cop needs to keep shut and you need to lynch one of the other two tomorrow. Worst case we are -1 on the "IC cop set up" but we gain a free kill and the Insane Cop doesn't have to out for it.

Skum hasn't played well to this point, we have played shitty. Start thinking about how things play out.

This is a waste of time, we're not lynching from the cops today and there's a good reason why.

^This guy is telling the truth
Can't believe we'd have to spell it out.
Lynching a Cop is bad.
Almost strictly better to lynch from claimed VTs today, and cops maybe tomorrow. That way we get more information
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Joseph2302 on August 30, 2018, 11:59:45 am
I have no idea whatís going on. Gkrieg hasnít remotely done anything as scummy as Galz and Dsell coaching the traitor or Robz with the quickwagon.
Agreed, I strongly prefer Robz to Gkrieg right now
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: 2.71828..... on August 30, 2018, 12:09:42 pm
I have no idea whatís going on. Gkrieg hasnít remotely done anything as scummy as Galz and Dsell coaching the traitor or Robz with the quickwagon.

I just really disagree with your conclusion that their posts were coaching a traitor. They were doing setup analysis and speculating in the thread, which will influence the traitor (or even normal scum) but I just don't really see it as "coaching the traitor."
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: 2.71828..... on August 30, 2018, 12:11:58 pm
I have no idea whatís going on. Gkrieg hasnít remotely done anything as scummy as Galz and Dsell coaching the traitor or Robz with the quickwagon.
Agreed, I strongly prefer Robz to Gkrieg right now

Your read on robz was based on him pushing the quicklynch and then doing nothing. He has posted a bit more since then, no change in your read or reasons?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on August 30, 2018, 12:12:14 pm
I have no idea whatís going on. Gkrieg hasnít remotely done anything as scummy as Galz and Dsell coaching the traitor or Robz with the quickwagon.

I just really disagree with your conclusion that their posts were coaching a traitor. They were doing setup analysis and speculating in the thread, which will influence the traitor (or even normal scum) but I just don't really see it as "coaching the traitor."

If I were a traitor I would NEVER thought about claiming cop. Maybe itís because i am not as bright; but mafia team doesnít know who traitor is and they could try to tell them what to do best.

Simply put: they advised the best course of action for Mafia team. If they were doing setup analosys, they could make their conclusions and not tell it.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on August 30, 2018, 12:14:52 pm
Vote: gkrieg for not answering my question about why he thought my statement was a scum slip.

? You said his instead of their, and I havenít posted since you asked the question.

Yeah, this is much ado about nothing from gkrieg. 2 days left? I can join the wagon

vote: gkrieg

This is a bad vote.

Awaclus has now pointed out that everyone playing is male, so it can't possibly be a scumslip anyway, and I pointed out in the original post that it doesn't work because scum don't know traitor.  I was just pointing out that Robz was giving the traitor a gender, which could imply a scumslip, but that it didn't work out.  I don't actually think it is a scumslip at all anymore.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: 2.71828..... on August 30, 2018, 12:15:30 pm
I have no idea whatís going on. Gkrieg hasnít remotely done anything as scummy as Galz and Dsell coaching the traitor or Robz with the quickwagon.

I just really disagree with your conclusion that their posts were coaching a traitor. They were doing setup analysis and speculating in the thread, which will influence the traitor (or even normal scum) but I just don't really see it as "coaching the traitor."

If I were a traitor I would NEVER thought about claiming cop. Maybe itís because i am not as bright; but mafia team doesnít know who traitor is and they could try to tell them what to do best.

Simply put: they advised the best course of action for Mafia team. If they were doing setup analosys, they could make their conclusions and not tell it.

See, the towniest people to me are those that share and actually talk about stuff in the thread. The way you are proposing could basically go to say that we should all just do single vote posts and not share any information. Yeah, that is extreme, but I think theory talk is extremely helpful to town D1
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: 2.71828..... on August 30, 2018, 12:17:01 pm
Vote: gkrieg for not answering my question about why he thought my statement was a scum slip.

? You said his instead of their, and I havenít posted since you asked the question.

Yeah, this is much ado about nothing from gkrieg. 2 days left? I can join the wagon

vote: gkrieg

This is a bad vote.

Awaclus has now pointed out that everyone playing is male, so it can't possibly be a scumslip anyway, and I pointed out in the original post that it doesn't work because scum don't know traitor.  I was just pointing out that Robz was giving the traitor a gender, which could imply a scumslip, but that it didn't work out.  I don't actually think it is a scumslip at all anymore.

The point of the vote was more that "scumslip!" is immediately where you went. Like opportunistic scum might. Then backtrack after proven wrong
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Awaclus on August 30, 2018, 12:17:06 pm
The thing about coaching the traitor is that it's super easy for scum to do it, because traitor knows mafia. Normally you would have to manage signaling to the traitor that you're mafia and that you're coaching them while appearing to everyone else as town, which is pretty impossible, but here, you only have to signal to the traitor who already knows that you're mafia that you're coaching them while appearing to everyone else as town, which is pretty easy to do under the guise of "setup analysis".

It's also noteworthy that so far, it looks like the traitor has actually done everything according to the coaching from Dsell and Galz.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on August 30, 2018, 12:17:10 pm
I have no idea whatís going on. Gkrieg hasnít remotely done anything as scummy as Galz and Dsell coaching the traitor or Robz with the quickwagon.

I just really disagree with your conclusion that their posts were coaching a traitor. They were doing setup analysis and speculating in the thread, which will influence the traitor (or even normal scum) but I just don't really see it as "coaching the traitor."

If I were a traitor I would NEVER thought about claiming cop. Maybe itís because i am not as bright; but mafia team doesnít know who traitor is and they could try to tell them what to do best.

Simply put: they advised the best course of action for Mafia team. If they were doing setup analosys, they could make their conclusions and not tell it.

See, the towniest people to me are those that share and actually talk about stuff in the thread. The way you are proposing could basically go to say that we should all just do single vote posts and not share any information. Yeah, that is extreme, but I think theory talk is extremely helpful to town D1

Theory talk is awesome. Like faust did for example. I am talking about specific theory talk.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: mcmcsalot on August 30, 2018, 12:23:52 pm
I have no idea whatís going on. Gkrieg hasnít remotely done anything as scummy as Galz and Dsell coaching the traitor or Robz with the quickwagon.

I just really disagree with your conclusion that their posts were coaching a traitor. They were doing setup analysis and speculating in the thread, which will influence the traitor (or even normal scum) but I just don't really see it as "coaching the traitor."

I agree with e here. I really donít think they were coaching the traitor. In fact if anything there has been more ďcoachingĒ going on today with the amount of discussion people have had about what mafia is going to do during the night and what the cops should do etc.

The robz quickwagon argument is outrageous when compared to gkrieg.

Lalight do you realize robz was the 4th vote for pps and gkrieg was the 6th (l-1). So just objectively gkriegís vote is scummier. Then you look at subjectively how scum approaches the wagon and following day compared to town. Scum is unlikely to as robz did mention long after he votes that he actually thinks itís a good idea to go through with the quicklynch. All that does is make that scum player accountable to for the lynch and reminds people they support is. Scum would just let the lynch happen without saying more and then the next day they can claim they didnít want it to go through and blame the other people who voted for pps. Scum would much rather claim something vague like ďI just wanted to get reactionsĒ and point to someone other than themselves on the wagon and say ďlook their vote was scummy!Ē. You know like exactly what gkrieg did.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: DatSwan on August 30, 2018, 12:34:29 pm
Fine. I give up. I stand by my theory - i agree with the some of the downsides people point out - but in the end if Iím ge only one voting there - it ainít gonna do any good.

unvote



Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Robz888 on August 30, 2018, 01:15:56 pm
We should keep in mind that the person who hammers is more likely to be Traitor than Mafia. Mafia doesn't know if they are hammering the Traitor--and that would be bad!--but Traitor knows. Therefore E's hammering of PPS is much safer from a scum perspective if E is Traitor.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on August 30, 2018, 01:40:37 pm
The thing about coaching the traitor is that it's super easy for scum to do it, because traitor knows mafia. Normally you would have to manage signaling to the traitor that you're mafia and that you're coaching them while appearing to everyone else as town, which is pretty impossible, but here, you only have to signal to the traitor who already knows that you're mafia that you're coaching them while appearing to everyone else as town, which is pretty easy to do under the guise of "setup analysis".

It's also noteworthy that so far, it looks like the traitor has actually done everything according to the coaching from Dsell and Galz.

It's wild to me that y'all think it's scummy to be doing setup analysis.

-This is a brand new setup we've never done on the site before
-People had details of the setup wrong, which could have significantly hampered town's ability to deduce correct information if left unchecked

I think you're significantly underestimating the players here if you don't think the traitor would have figured out some optimal moves to make, and planned them out. If I was scum, playing a new setup, I would study the hell out of it to figure out how I could screw town the most. If town just skims the setup and tries to play a regular game of mafia, town will lose. Town has to work just as hard or harder than scum to figure shit out and cut off scum's moves - or point out the moves (ideally, after the fact) that helped scum more than town.

So when you say that the traitor "has actually done everything according to coaching" I think we have a correlation-not-causation situation. Yeah the traitor has probably done some of the things that we pointed out the traitor might do - because they make sense for the traitor to do. But that doesn't mean they were influenced by us. Us putting in the same amount of work as the traitor will help us find them.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Dsell on August 30, 2018, 01:43:51 pm
gkrieg13 - he is awesome! Considered as one of the best players of modern community, gkrieg always plays extremely pro-town and can guess the whole scum-team in his first post and be right. That's why, along with faust, he is usually a N1 kill.

I am starting my rereads now and I wanted to ask LaLight how well you think gkrieg is fitting in with his usual town play thus far?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Awaclus on August 30, 2018, 01:46:43 pm
It's wild to me that y'all think it's scummy to be doing setup analysis.

-This is a brand new setup we've never done on the site before
-People had details of the setup wrong, which could have significantly hampered town's ability to deduce correct information if left unchecked

I think you're significantly underestimating the players here if you don't think the traitor would have figured out some optimal moves to make, and planned them out. If I was scum, playing a new setup, I would study the hell out of it to figure out how I could screw town the most. If town just skims the setup and tries to play a regular game of mafia, town will lose. Town has to work just as hard or harder than scum to figure shit out and cut off scum's moves - or point out the moves (ideally, after the fact) that helped scum more than town.

So when you say that the traitor "has actually done everything according to coaching" I think we have a correlation-not-causation situation. Yeah the traitor has probably done some of the things that we pointed out the traitor might do - because they make sense for the traitor to do. But that doesn't mean they were influenced by us. Us putting in the same amount of work as the traitor will help us find them.

It's not that the traitor can't figure out the optimal strategy without help from better players, it's that the optimal strategy requires coordination between mafia and the traitor, and the only way they can coordinate is by having the mafia tell the traitor what to do because the traitor knows the mafia but not vice versa.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Hydrad on August 30, 2018, 01:50:53 pm
Just on a 15 minute break right now. But I'll state again I still prefer robz over gkrieg by far
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Joseph2302 on August 30, 2018, 01:58:10 pm
I have no idea whatís going on. Gkrieg hasnít remotely done anything as scummy as Galz and Dsell coaching the traitor or Robz with the quickwagon.
Agreed, I strongly prefer Robz to Gkrieg right now

Your read on robz was based on him pushing the quicklynch and then doing nothing. He has posted a bit more since then, no change in your read or reasons?
I still think he looks scummy
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Robz888 on August 30, 2018, 02:13:22 pm
I'm a moderate on this "Galz and/or Dsell were coaching the Traitor" question. Might this have been what was going on? Sure. Is it an automatic? No.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Joseph2302 on August 30, 2018, 02:15:55 pm
Just on a 15 minute break right now. But I'll state again I still prefer robz over gkrieg by far
Agreed
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: mcmcsalot on August 30, 2018, 02:23:47 pm
Just on a 15 minute break right now. But I'll state again I still prefer robz over gkrieg by far
Agreed

Can you guys give me a reason or adress my case on gkrieg and explain why Iím wrong. You know be helpful instead of lazy and anti-town.

I swear I used to bunk it was silly the whole Faust always dies night one thing but over the last few games Iíve played itís really true that you kill faust and you kill 80% of towns effort. Me and him argue almost every game and I used to think itís some issue with the way we communicate but itís just whatís supposed to happen when two players have different reads, not this ďfor the record I still want to lynch X.Ē Explain to me why Iím wrong and your right because I think Iíve clearly explained why you are wrong and Iím right.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on August 30, 2018, 03:46:13 pm
Finished my reread of Gkrieg, also reread Mcmc's case on him.

I think Mcmc is VERY towny and I am glad he's doing so much today.

I've never played with gkrieg. LaLight and others have said that he's an amazing town player, often a n1 kill target. I haven't seen amazing town play here. I've seen a fair bit of confusion about the setup or the situation (Robz being in a different position on the wagon than initially thought, Robz having a scumslip that really wasn't actually a scumslip). I've seen pushing wagons on PPS, Robz, and Galz. I have seen almost zero "I think X person is being towny." So overall it's possible that he's not having his greatest game as town, but I get a stronger feeling that he is sowing and watering chaos as scum.

The arguments that LaLight, Awaclus, and Gkrieg have made about coaching the traitor - I admit these could have some merit to them. Especially Awaclus' point that in order to be truly optimal, mafia has to communicate their desires with the traitor. IMO this is something that the mafia/traitor can figure out independently and relatively easily, without having to talk in the thread. And I also am a strong believer that setup discussion can be valuable for town, for the reasons I've listed before. Nevertheless, I can understand the suspicion and maybe this is a reason that I would take another look at Galz in the future (not today - absolutely against lynching him today).

Insofar as this argument implicates me, I know it's wrong. But since it's coming from multiple people, I obviously don't think they're all scum. However, I think it's very likely that there is scum within this group, probably attempting to push more suspicion on 2 active players.

Vote: Gkrieg
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: DatSwan on August 30, 2018, 03:49:00 pm
thats L-2 btw
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Hydrad on August 30, 2018, 04:07:45 pm
Just on a 15 minute break right now. But I'll state again I still prefer robz over gkrieg by far
Agreed

Can you guys give me a reason or adress my case on gkrieg and explain why Iím wrong. You know be helpful instead of lazy and anti-town.

I swear I used to bunk it was silly the whole Faust always dies night one thing but over the last few games Iíve played itís really true that you kill faust and you kill 80% of towns effort. Me and him argue almost every game and I used to think itís some issue with the way we communicate but itís just whatís supposed to happen when two players have different reads, not this ďfor the record I still want to lynch X.Ē Explain to me why Iím wrong and your right because I think Iíve clearly explained why you are wrong and Iím right.

Still at work so can't post much. But I'll give you an answer I know you will hate. Basically I have a reason but I think it's anti town to say what it is. Sorry
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Joseph2302 on August 30, 2018, 04:22:52 pm

The arguments that LaLight, Awaclus, and Gkrieg have made about coaching the traitor - I admit these could have some merit to them. Especially Awaclus' point that in order to be truly optimal, mafia has to communicate their desires with the traitor. IMO this is something that the mafia/traitor can figure out independently and relatively easily, without having to talk in the thread. And I also am a strong believer that setup discussion can be valuable for town, for the reasons I've listed before. Nevertheless, I can understand the suspicion and maybe this is a reason that I would take another look at Galz in the future (not today - absolutely against lynching him today).

This is why I think Gkrieg is somewhat towny, along with Awaclus and LL. I think there was some scum trying to communicate with the traitor. But Robz on the other hand isn't giving me a towny vibe.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on August 30, 2018, 04:35:24 pm
thats L-2 btw

Hey I still value using more of our time and I would still like to do at least a reread of Hyrdad and maybe some others. I'm not gonna be on constantly tonight but I would prefer not to see people hammer right away, even if we enough people are interested in the lynch.

In fact, unvote: gkrieg.

I fully intend to put my vote back on soon but I am spooked by the trigger fingers around here and I have more reading to do before day's end.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on August 30, 2018, 04:43:01 pm
I'll get to rereads later today hopefully.  Otherwise, I'll be V/LA starting tomorrow.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: DatSwan on August 30, 2018, 05:09:01 pm
OK now that I have given up on looking at the cops, I have started looking at the not cops. Posting in segments based on importance because we have two days left and it will take me the rest of tonight to finish up.

Most important first.

GK:

1) I am just like on the top of the damn fence with this one. First major Town-Point for me comes at the end of D1 when he put PPS at L-1. The general consensus seemed to be everyone wanted to lynch PPS because they could flip Traitor. If GK is Mafia, he would NOT want that obviously. This led me to the skummy side of it - meaning if GK is the Traitor he would obv know that it was town and ect. I just cant entertain the idea at this point of a Non-Cop being the traitor. I even looked into it, and there is like 1 post to E! about "I couldn't believe you ended up being IC".. but it is nowhere near enough.

2) This Town-Point is negated by the fact that I CAN however, entertain the idea that both PPS and GK have probably played.... dozens? of games together. So GK could of been confident as Mafia that it was town!PPS

3) Other skummy things include
#213: Votes Dsell based in some way on them wanting to do free form claiming instead of sign up order - as they were second to last, if they are Mafia this would make sense.
#291: They were LITERALLY the only player in the entire game to feel the need to point out that... I NEVER CLAIMED! (which is totally fair, but is also skummy bc of where we are now)
#463: Not getting into it - but these are my reads - so while I cannot put a finger on it... suggesting skum will not kill within the cops bc of PoE is just offputting.
#458: The Joseph sheeping vote is weird. It took the 3-3 wagon at the time and turned it into 4-2 and Robz still had a live vote to use. (without going into detail GK, this is the large reason why I think there is skum between GK/Robz/Joseph. It will make more sense later after the other read posts).

and then there is this...

#543 - Claims to not understand why the Traitor has been assumed to be the fake cop instead of the other Mafia.

#557 - Next post. Scum slip case on Robz, regarding the gender he used to refer to skum. That is all fine and silly. Here is what is weird. As of GK's last post, they "did not understand why it had to be the Traitor as the fake cop" - this is to say, I am assuming at least, that they thought it was possible that fake cop could be regular mafia. In this very next post, their mindset has changed... the gender thing doesn't matter, it is that they said "I want to call this a scum slip, but I can't bc traitor knows mafia instead of the other way around." - I read that as "this seems skummy except for the fact it can't be because the Traitor has to be one of the cops". Those back to back posts do not follow the same mindset.... Far fetched, just pointing it out. Also if I caught skum on a skum slip while they were promoting a skum slip that would be just peaches.

I am not going to take the time to bullet point everything GK has done that i think could be towny. Let's just say I find their general gameplay to be towny combined with the fact that they have made several errors regarding the set up that they had to correct themselves about. I am marking that trait to this point as kind of towny - a) because I have done the same thing... probably more then they have, and b) upon thinking about it, I agree with Dsell's point about comprehending the set up as town.. which would mean, a skum player would probably be all over that shit.


That is a lot of me arguing with myself, which is why I was hesitant to look outside the cops.... As it appears GK is our best option... and I don't even really like that option all that much. Need to look at Robz for sure, and then I have one other I wanna read through before I decide though.

PPE - 1
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: DatSwan on August 30, 2018, 05:24:16 pm
Also before I get into the rest, there are essentially 2 players I am 100% unwilling to lynch today. Could absolutely change tomorrow, but for today they are:

Galz - 2 reasons. First, wayyyyyy to many people are attacking him for coaching. I personally do not believe he was... but even if he was, way too much hate. Second, I have obviously spent a lot of time considering fake claim reasons for the fake-cop and all that jazz... this is the defn of a set up where Galz would straight up volunteer to run that gambit. To do so he would want to be believable, so towards the front (but he tried for popcorn over sign up), and then obviously after getting that result - he claimed VT.

Dsell - Also the Coaching hate thing, and then obvious reasons... mainly that they are trying harder than the other 10 players put together. I choose to remove them now and re address at a later time.


Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Robz888 on August 30, 2018, 05:24:19 pm
In fact, unvote: gkrieg.

I fully intend to put my vote back on soon but I am spooked by the trigger fingers around here and I have more reading to do before day's end.

This is overly cautious and bad!
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: DatSwan on August 30, 2018, 05:25:46 pm
In fact, unvote: gkrieg.

I fully intend to put my vote back on soon but I am spooked by the trigger fingers around here and I have more reading to do before day's end.

This is overly cautious and bad!

???????? are you just saying skummy shit on purpose at this point?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Robz888 on August 30, 2018, 05:31:40 pm
In fact, unvote: gkrieg.

I fully intend to put my vote back on soon but I am spooked by the trigger fingers around here and I have more reading to do before day's end.

This is overly cautious and bad!

???????? are you just saying skummy shit on purpose at this point?

I am not. And what I said is not scummy. Voting for someone and them immediately unvoting them because heavens to betsy L-2 is a bridge too far is what's scummy.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: DatSwan on August 30, 2018, 05:32:56 pm
also this is a wayyyyy back thought I just came to but whatever...

They killed faust. So, in regards to the fake-cop being Mafia vs Traitor - yes, the plan is easier to come up with as 2 players with communication, but wouldn't their play there would of been to keep him alive?
We wake up to Player X dead (let's assume VT), and the cops all out the results. They could then either create CC situation or not. Either way, without the faust flip... we would have to like... lynch faust right?

Just pointing out I think it is unlikely that they went with the plan they chose and then also chose to fake claim in either position 1 or 4.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: DatSwan on August 30, 2018, 05:33:35 pm
In fact, unvote: gkrieg.

I fully intend to put my vote back on soon but I am spooked by the trigger fingers around here and I have more reading to do before day's end.

This is overly cautious and bad!

???????? are you just saying skummy shit on purpose at this point?

I am not. And what I said is not scummy. Voting for someone and them immediately unvoting them because heavens to betsy L-2 is a bridge too far is what's scummy.

we just ended day 1 like 3.5 days into the day. I am gonna go ahead and say that the worry is merited in this instance.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Robz888 on August 30, 2018, 05:34:59 pm
we just ended day 1 like 3.5 days into the day.

The horror!
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: iguanaiguana on August 30, 2018, 05:56:11 pm
Thor's Well
(https://assets0.roadtrippers.com/uploads/poi_gallery_image/image/319707811/-quality_60_-interlace_Plane_-resize_1024x480_U__-gravity_center_-extent_1024x480/poi_gallery_image-image-5b257412-3dff-47ce-80f0-56e3b0e826c4.jpg)

Vote count 2.5

Galzria (2): Awaclus, gkrieg13
Robz888 (3): Joseph2302, Hydrad, Lalight
gkrieg13 (3): McMcsalot, Robz888, 2.71828...

not voting (3): Dsell, Galzria, DatSwan

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 1 ends, Saturday, September 01, 2018, 05:30:00 pm
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on August 30, 2018, 09:34:15 pm
In fact, unvote: gkrieg.

I fully intend to put my vote back on soon but I am spooked by the trigger fingers around here and I have more reading to do before day's end.

This is overly cautious and bad!

I am completely planning to vote for him again but I was leaving computer access and I didn't know if/when I would have access again tonight. I didn't want any clowns hammering before I was back...again
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: DatSwan on August 30, 2018, 10:39:55 pm
Whatís everyoneís availability gonna be like? Do we wanna set a soft DL?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on August 31, 2018, 12:44:31 am
I should have lots of availability tomorrow during the day, very little in the evening, not much Saturday morning, and then Saturday afternoon leading up to deadline is an unknown, but I will prioritize this if we are down to the wire at all.

Tomorrow morning I'm going to finish a reread of one person, probably drop some thoughts on that and other reads, then put my vote back on gkrieg.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on August 31, 2018, 12:50:11 am
Thor's Well
(https://assets0.roadtrippers.com/uploads/poi_gallery_image/image/319707811/-quality_60_-interlace_Plane_-resize_1024x480_U__-gravity_center_-extent_1024x480/poi_gallery_image-image-5b257412-3dff-47ce-80f0-56e3b0e826c4.jpg)

Also this is so gorgeous. I just researched this spot and now I want to go. If anyone's thinking about visiting the PNW, I highly recommend it. I'm from OR and there are amazing gems like this all over the place.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on August 31, 2018, 01:40:49 am
Sorry guys not going to have time to reread and then Iím leaving tomorrow. LaLight and Joseph are townie. Awaclus and mcmcsalot also townie, but Iím less sure of those two. Galz disappeared when a wagon was formed on him and is probably scum.

I still think Robz wanting a quickhammer was scummy D1

Datswan is the scummiest of the cops, e was only scummy for the hammer D1 but has had a townie D2.

No idea on Hydrad and DSell was just scummy for the coaching although I feel like he has honestly been scum hunting so Iím reading townier on him now.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on August 31, 2018, 04:27:18 am
Hi, sorry, was unavailable. Here now
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on August 31, 2018, 04:31:48 am
what is Hydrad's scum meta?

My meta for scum is this. Either a) heavy lurking.

Or b) posts feeling very forced.

Basically as scum I have a hard time posting and when I try to post to make it look like I'm not lurking the posts look pretty forced and with almost no content.

I've known this is my meta for years but the reason I'm a bad scum player is that even though I know my meta I can't break it.

Now obviously you probably won't beleive me but figured I'd let you know

Putin this out there
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Joseph2302 on August 31, 2018, 05:44:57 am
what is Hydrad's scum meta?

My meta for scum is this. Either a) heavy lurking.

Or b) posts feeling very forced.

Basically as scum I have a hard time posting and when I try to post to make it look like I'm not lurking the posts look pretty forced and with almost no content.

I've known this is my meta for years but the reason I'm a bad scum player is that even though I know my meta I can't break it.

Now obviously you probably won't beleive me but figured I'd let you know

Putin this out there
Putin? Is Hydrad Vladimir Putin? That would be a change twist to the game
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Joseph2302 on August 31, 2018, 05:45:17 am
And I'm away most of the day today
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Robz888 on August 31, 2018, 11:05:16 am
Would have been great to L-1 gkrieg before he disappeared, in case he was the Insane Cop and needed to claim...
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on August 31, 2018, 11:24:51 am
Finished reread on Hydrad again. Actually seemed really towny. A little clumsy, but in a way that I don't think scum would be. This post is very towny to me, and I'm surprised it didn't jump out the last time I did a reread:

so the reason i was dissapointed was I was pretty sure when faust died that we were going to have a high chance in finding scum.

My theory was that scum team killed faust to try to let their partner get a better chance to claim. (plus its faust so may as well).

But anyways if I was traitor and going to claim I would of claimed faust was guilty. because why would scum team frame faust. all that would do is mess up my chance to claim the nice 2-2 split.

Then with both cops claiming town results right away that made it even more likely in my opinion for them to have not framed faust. I feel like traitor would have said faust was scum for his result (due to my logic above) if he went first in the claiming order so when both cops claimed town I was going to instantly assume that if there were 2 people that claimed faust was scum that one of them was scum.

So in reality I think we would of been hoping for the 2-2 split because I think we would of hit scum in the guilty section and make it a 50-50 in finding them. Which hilariously means I think the correct decision for traitor if they would have claimed would to make it the 3-1 split instead.

Anyways all this is pointless now but I was really excited to bring this up and find scum.

So I guess all in all the traitor either
a) realized that if they claimed it probably wouldn't have worked as well as they had hoped.
or
b) is near the top of the list.

I guess it could be both a and b but whatever, I wanted to seem smart.

That just doesn't feel like scum to me.

Vote: Gkrieg

Will be doing some more rereads today.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on August 31, 2018, 11:46:17 am
I did a reread of Robz. I am a little on the fence about Robz but think that Gkrieg's flip will be very telling. Robz has been a big pusher of the wagons. If Gkrieg flips scum, Robz is confirmed town in my mind. If Gkrieg flips town, I will be pretty suspicious of him tomorrow.

LaLight and Joseph, you have been opposed to the Gkrieg lynch and more in favor of a Robz lynch - do you agree that a Gkrieg lynch will be highly informative? If he flips town, I will come around to your arguments that he is pushing wagons in a scummy way. But Gkrieg I think is most likely scum, and enthusiastically pushing a wagon on scum (especially when there are only 2 scum currently, sort of) is a very town thing to do.

I think mcmc is very towny, as I've said before. Strong scumhunting.

Galz has done excellent work on the setup analysis. Not as much scumhunting or activity of any kind in the last couple days, hope to hear more from him soon. Overall feeling towny with an outside chance of "oh shit my scumpartner is catching a lot of suspicion and I can't stop it so I'm going to lay low."
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on August 31, 2018, 11:47:26 am
LaLight and Joseph, you have been opposed to the Gkrieg lynch and more in favor of a Robz lynch - do you agree that a Gkrieg lynch will be highly informative? If he flips town, I will come around to your arguments that he is pushing wagons in a scummy way.

Not my strongest use of pronouns here. If Gkrieg flips town, I will come around to your arguments that Robz is pushing wagons in a scummy way.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Hydrad on August 31, 2018, 11:50:30 am
Wait gkrieg will still have some access right?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Joseph2302 on August 31, 2018, 11:59:02 am
I did a reread of Robz. I am a little on the fence about Robz but think that Gkrieg's flip will be very telling. Robz has been a big pusher of the wagons. If Gkrieg flips scum, Robz is confirmed town in my mind. If Gkrieg flips town, I will be pretty suspicious of him tomorrow.

LaLight and Joseph, you have been opposed to the Gkrieg lynch and more in favor of a Robz lynch - do you agree that a Gkrieg lynch will be highly informative? If he flips town, I will come around to your arguments that he is pushing wagons in a scummy way. But Gkrieg I think is most likely scum, and enthusiastically pushing a wagon on scum (especially when there are only 2 scum currently, sort of) is a very town thing to do.

I think mcmc is very towny, as I've said before. Strong scumhunting.

Galz has done excellent work on the setup analysis. Not as much scumhunting or activity of any kind in the last couple days, hope to hear more from him soon. Overall feeling towny with an outside chance of "oh shit my scumpartner is catching a lot of suspicion and I can't stop it so I'm going to lay low."
Honestly, I'd prefer to just lynch scum. But if the choice is Gkrieg or no lynch, then I'll vote
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Joseph2302 on August 31, 2018, 11:59:17 am
How long til deadline by the way?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Joseph2302 on August 31, 2018, 12:04:17 pm
How long til deadline by the way?
So deadline is Saturday, 01 September 2018, 22:30:00- that'll be 3:30am Sunday morning for me, so I won't be around at deadline
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on August 31, 2018, 12:08:56 pm
Wait gkrieg will still have some access right?

Yes some
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on August 31, 2018, 12:12:43 pm
Iguana: If a (sane) cop investigates the traitor the same night that the mafia kill the traitor, would the traitor show up as town or scum?

I would still love an answer to this, if that's allowed.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Dsell on August 31, 2018, 12:14:39 pm
gkrieg13 - he is awesome! Considered as one of the best players of modern community, gkrieg always plays extremely pro-town and can guess the whole scum-team in his first post and be right. That's why, along with faust, he is usually a N1 kill.

I am starting my rereads now and I wanted to ask LaLight how well you think gkrieg is fitting in with his usual town play thus far?

@LaLight still curious about this as well.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: LaLight on August 31, 2018, 12:17:43 pm
gkrieg13 - he is awesome! Considered as one of the best players of modern community, gkrieg always plays extremely pro-town and can guess the whole scum-team in his first post and be right. That's why, along with faust, he is usually a N1 kill.

I am starting my rereads now and I wanted to ask LaLight how well you think gkrieg is fitting in with his usual town play thus far?

@LaLight still curious about this as well.

Not so well. But last couple of games he behaved same as town, you can look at M117 for instance
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on August 31, 2018, 12:46:30 pm
gkrieg13 - he is awesome! Considered as one of the best players of modern community, gkrieg always plays extremely pro-town and can guess the whole scum-team in his first post and be right. That's why, along with faust, he is usually a N1 kill.

I am starting my rereads now and I wanted to ask LaLight how well you think gkrieg is fitting in with his usual town play thus far?

@LaLight still curious about this as well.

Not so well. But last couple of games he behaved same as town, you can look at M117 for instance

Mainly I think I've stopped having time to do rereads and stuff, which makes me much less townie and also just less useful.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Hydrad on August 31, 2018, 02:26:51 pm
gkrieg13 - he is awesome! Considered as one of the best players of modern community, gkrieg always plays extremely pro-town and can guess the whole scum-team in his first post and be right. That's why, along with faust, he is usually a N1 kill.

I am starting my rereads now and I wanted to ask LaLight how well you think gkrieg is fitting in with his usual town play thus far?

@LaLight still curious about this as well.

Not so well. But last couple of games he behaved same as town, you can look at M117 for instance

Mainly I think I've stopped having time to do rereads and stuff, which makes me much less townie and also just less useful.

I still think you are towny. But it's not looking good for you. If you aren't on robz yet you should join me so he dies over you
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: iguanaiguana on August 31, 2018, 09:22:15 pm
Mack Arch
(https://cdn.history.com/sites/2/2013/11/OR_coast-P.jpeg)

Vote count 2.6

Galzria (2): Awaclus, gkrieg13
Robz888 (3): Joseph2302, Hydrad, Lalight
gkrieg13 (4): McMcsalot, Robz888, 2.71828..., Dsell

not voting (2): Galzria, DatSwan

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 1 ends, Saturday, September 01, 2018, 05:30:00 pm That's in less than 24 hours.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: mcmcsalot on August 31, 2018, 09:42:43 pm
So today has been almost silent. Tomorrow is weekend which means less participation. I will be gone most of the day.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on August 31, 2018, 09:59:52 pm
Tomorrow is also deadline.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on August 31, 2018, 11:37:11 pm
vote: Robz. Probably wonít be around at deadline.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Robz888 on August 31, 2018, 11:40:51 pm
I will also be VLA tomorrow, attending a funeral. (For a certain U.S. senator, in fact.)
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: DatSwan on August 31, 2018, 11:50:02 pm
Yeah I mean I keep trying to find a way to fight it - but I am gonna go with GK.

Vote: gkrieg13


I will be available until I fall asleep, and then I will not be here at all until like... 15 minutes before DL if lucky.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on September 01, 2018, 12:29:51 am
L-1 on gkrieg
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: DatSwan on September 01, 2018, 12:55:59 am
Sorry good catch.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Joseph2302 on September 01, 2018, 02:59:51 am
So it's L-1 on Gkrieg and L-2 on Robz
I still prefer a Robz lyncj
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: DatSwan on September 01, 2018, 03:39:46 am
So it's L-1 on Gkrieg and L-2 on Robz
I still prefer a Robz lyncj

Non-sarcastic: convince me. I am close on it, but the ONLY THING people are referencing outside of what Robz normally does is the quick lynch promotion from Day 1. That is just not enough of a reason man. There are too many things that Skum!Robz would NOT be doing...

1) Skum!Robz would NEVER be like "oh I like the faust plan, but I don't think Galz is skum for disagreeing". He always fights with Galz, and he knows it... he would have to keep that image.
2) Skum!Robz be more likely to come back on D2 and take the "oh shit, I was wrong" path regarding PPS. Instead he made an argument that I on some level actually agree with regarding the lack of info D1 offers. Especially in this set up where there are only 2 skum that know each other, even looking back at Day 1, which is normally super valuable to look back on, just doesn't hold up the same here.
3) We are well past the point where Skum!Robz stops being silent and starts making cases. They have not done this. They have posted slightly more, but just pointing out stuff. This is what Town!Robz does from my interactions with them.

We absolutely do NOT want this to go to no-lynch. We need the info and the limited pool for tomorrow - but can I get something from a Robz advocate that is not "because of the quick lynch push" please?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: DatSwan on September 01, 2018, 04:23:18 am
This is pretty much what I got left before deadline because I will have to be at work - I will target outside the cops as instructed. If I don't wake up - It is LL. I have no idea who it is outside of the cops, but within us.. it is LL.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on September 01, 2018, 06:37:22 am
So it's L-1 on Gkrieg and L-2 on Robz
I still prefer a Robz lyncj

Non-sarcastic: convince me. I am close on it, but the ONLY THING people are referencing outside of what Robz normally does is the quick lynch promotion from Day 1. That is just not enough of a reason man. There are too many things that Skum!Robz would NOT be doing...

1) Skum!Robz would NEVER be like "oh I like the faust plan, but I don't think Galz is skum for disagreeing". He always fights with Galz, and he knows it... he would have to keep that image.
2) Skum!Robz be more likely to come back on D2 and take the "oh shit, I was wrong" path regarding PPS. Instead he made an argument that I on some level actually agree with regarding the lack of info D1 offers. Especially in this set up where there are only 2 skum that know each other, even looking back at Day 1, which is normally super valuable to look back on, just doesn't hold up the same here.
3) We are well past the point where Skum!Robz stops being silent and starts making cases. They have not done this. They have posted slightly more, but just pointing out stuff. This is what Town!Robz does from my interactions with them.

We absolutely do NOT want this to go to no-lynch. We need the info and the limited pool for tomorrow - but can I get something from a Robz advocate that is not "because of the quick lynch push" please?

The whole time I was looking at M117 as a mod, Robz was felt to me exactly the same way he's feeling to me now actually.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 01, 2018, 07:46:21 am
Got some internet at the campsite I am at, but it will be limited. I think gkrieg is the best option right now, not planning on moving my vote
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Awaclus on September 01, 2018, 10:20:21 am
Intent to hammer

gkrieg should claim if he's the insane cop.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on September 01, 2018, 10:32:40 am
Ugh.I am the insane cop
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Awaclus on September 01, 2018, 10:33:04 am
Ugh.I am the insane cop
Vote: gkrieg
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Awaclus on September 01, 2018, 10:39:37 am
LL targets Galzria, e targets Robz, DatSwan targets mcmc. It's up to you whether or not you want to follow this coordination, but it's pretty likely I'm the NK target and with gkrieg dead, scum has 1 fewer shots to use so at least one of you should get a useful result.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Awaclus on September 01, 2018, 10:41:39 am
Or let's say you can feel free to target outside of my suggestion, but don't target a different cop's suggested target.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 01, 2018, 10:45:29 am
Northern Lights over Puget Sound
(https://static-21.sinclairstoryline.com/resources/media/67d1e7c6-ca8c-4eb1-8e59-26b5acc40bb0-largeScale_aurora_may7_21.jpg?1462722600189)

Day 2 Final Vote Count

Galzria (1): gkrieg13
Robz888 (3): Joseph2302, Hydrad, Lalight
gkrieg13 (6): McMcsalot, Robz888, 2.71828..., Dsell, DatSwan, Awaclus

not voting (1): Galzria

With 11 alive, it took 6 to lynch.

Thread Locked
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 01, 2018, 10:55:16 am
Throughout the towns of the Pacific Northwest, a story was becoming more and more familiar. People would move up from Californian cities like San Francisco, then complain loudly about how much better it was back when they were living in California. So it wasn't only Seattle and Portland that were slowly taking over the Pacific Northwest, Californians were ruining it too!

In the end, there was only one way to handle the influx of grumpy new neighbors from San Francisco and the like. Oregonians and Washingtonians had to treat them respect and show them love, so that their new neighbors ended up loving the Pacific Northwest just as much as they did.


gkrieg13 has been lynched. He was San Francisco, the city traitor.

Night Two begins now and ends on Monday, September 03, 2018, 11:00:00 am. Night actions are due at September 03, 2018, 03:00:00 am.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 03, 2018, 10:56:04 am
Bend was never an obvious place for a population surge. Across the mountains from the coastal cities of the west, Bend escaped the notice of most people for a long time. However, the perfect setting of Bend, with weather that rivals California and the kind of outdoor recreation opportunities that can only be found in Oregon, ended up putting the final nails in its coffin. More and more people relocated from Seattle and Portland to Bend for its 'cheaper cost of living,' until Bend was overflowing with rich people and retirees. In the end, Bend became indistinguishable from the places that its citizens originally moved away from to escape.

Awaclus has died in the night. He was Bend, a town cop.

Day 3 starts now!

Vote count 3.0

not voting (9): Lalight, Galzria, 2.71828..., McMcsalot, Robz888, Joseph2302, Hydrad, Dsell, DatSwan

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 3 ends, Monday, September 10, 2018, 11:00:00 am

Thread unlocked!
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: mcmcsalot on September 03, 2018, 11:06:00 am
Awesome, flavor was great. Wife was reading it to me while I drove and I totally knew gkrieg was gonna fine the traitor halfway through he flavor.

Interestingly enough gkrieg being he traitor means one of lalight/DatSwan/e is a mafia framer. And that mafia didnít know gkrieg was scum.


Really sucks we lost our insane cop, and that everyone was so silent that he had to hammer which made it apparent.

I think the extent to which the day was quiet and both robz/gkrieg proved difficult to lynch point to the fact that robz is definitely town. I think 2.7 has been quite towny and neither DatSwan or lalight pushed the gkrieg wagon in a way that screams robz is their scum partner.

We now know we are looking for one mafia on lalight/e/DatSwan and their partner in robz/me/Joseph/hydrad/dsell/galz.

Lalight and hydrad/galz look like the most laid back mafia partners letting town argue about lynching either person whom they assumed was town.

Someone should go through all of gkriegs posts and double check if he dropped any hints mafia may have picked up on.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Joseph2302 on September 03, 2018, 11:16:51 am
Shame our hidden cop died, but the traitor gone is great, because it makes our remaining cops more reliable (as traitor shows as town to cops)

Also, this means the lying cop wasn't the traitor. That's useful information too
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Joseph2302 on September 03, 2018, 11:17:33 am
Also should the cops claim their results?
And how would we pick an order in which to do so?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Joseph2302 on September 03, 2018, 11:18:06 am
I think they should claim, as it'll give us more information
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on September 03, 2018, 11:18:42 am
I have a town result.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on September 03, 2018, 11:19:07 am
I mean I know now I am a sane cop and my target was not framed
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Robz888 on September 03, 2018, 11:20:17 am
Cops should share results, LL first, then Swan, then E.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on September 03, 2018, 11:27:14 am
Cops should share results, LL first, then Swan, then E.

I don't want to claim first.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on September 03, 2018, 11:36:56 am
let's do this: Cops, c;aim if you got town or scum result first. I, as mentioned, got the town one.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Robz888 on September 03, 2018, 11:41:14 am
Vote: LL
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on September 03, 2018, 11:44:20 am
Vote: LL

Wow. You know what, vote: LaLight. I am not claiming until at least everyone claims if they got town or scum result. Let's lynch me and no information will be revealed at all
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: mcmcsalot on September 03, 2018, 11:47:40 am
Town results are almost guaranteed town. The only option is mafia claiming town on mafia, which losses as icís build and those live. So for the time being town results are ICís.

With that I donít think claim order matters at all. Running through all the options the mafia cop has in my head I canít think of a way they mess with any other result and they know who was and wasnít framed so there is no way to ďcatchĒ them giving a wrong result. So yes claim order doesnít matter.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: mcmcsalot on September 03, 2018, 11:48:54 am
Vote: LL

Wow. You know what, vote: LaLight. I am not claiming until at least everyone claims if they got town or scum result. Let's lynch me and no information will be revealed at all

Lalight if your town just think about what the mafia cop is going to do and what they can do. Why does it matter if you claim later.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on September 03, 2018, 11:49:10 am
Town results are almost guaranteed town. The only option is mafia claiming town on mafia, which losses as icís build and those live. So for the time being town results are ICís.

With that I donít think claim order matters at all. Running through all the options the mafia cop has in my head I canít think of a way they mess with any other result and they know who was and wasnít framed so there is no way to ďcatchĒ them giving a wrong result. So yes claim order doesnít matter.

It does. If mafia claims someone is scum and I know they are town, they are lying
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on September 03, 2018, 11:50:20 am
Vote: LL

Wow. You know what, vote: LaLight. I am not claiming until at least everyone claims if they got town or scum result. Let's lynch me and no information will be revealed at all

Lalight if your town just think about what the mafia cop is going to do and what they can do. Why does it matter if you claim later.

ah they know all the alignments. Sorry, I am in a hugely bad mood right now. I checked mcmc, he's town.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on September 03, 2018, 11:50:38 am
now lynch me, ic mcmc and carry on
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on September 03, 2018, 11:52:43 am
or lynch 2.7 or DatSwan and win
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 03, 2018, 11:56:55 am
Mount Shasta
(https://images.fineartamerica.com/images-medium-large-5/sunrise-over-lake-siskiyou-and-mt-shasta-scott-mcguire.jpg)

Vote count 3.1

Lalight (2): Robz888, Lalight

not voting (7): Galzria, 2.71828..., McMcsalot, Joseph2302, Hydrad, Dsell, DatSwan

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 3 ends, Monday, September 10, 2018, 11:00:00 am
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Robz888 on September 03, 2018, 12:02:20 pm
Unvote

So mcmc is town unless LL and mcmc are both mafia, which is not likely. Cool.

Who's next?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on September 03, 2018, 12:03:44 pm
I think claimed cops should do a flavor claim and I think Mcmc should choose the order.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Robz888 on September 03, 2018, 12:05:10 pm
I think claimed cops should do a flavor claim and I think Mcmc should choose the order.

Ugh, why? Scum have fakeclaims.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Robz888 on September 03, 2018, 12:05:58 pm
We're not going to win with a flavor gotcha, and it's a bad idea to try. Cops, proceed with results please.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Joseph2302 on September 03, 2018, 12:07:46 pm
I think claimed cops should do a flavor claim and I think Mcmc should choose the order.

Ugh, why? Scum have fakeclaims.
Agreed. As scum have fakeclaims, then this will be a waste of time
Instead, let's spend our time  getting useful cop results and looking back to D2 to see if we can find any breadcrumbs for scum from Gkrieg
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on September 03, 2018, 12:08:54 pm
I think claimed cops should do a flavor claim and I think Mcmc should choose the order.

Ugh, why? Scum have fakeclaims.

Only of vanilla townie flavor. Read the setup.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on September 03, 2018, 12:13:45 pm
I think claimed cops should do a flavor claim and I think Mcmc should choose the order.

Ugh, why? Scum have fakeclaims.

Only of vanilla townie flavor. Read the setup.

Cops and vanilla townies have different flavor, in case that wasn't clear.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Robz888 on September 03, 2018, 12:14:11 pm
I think claimed cops should do a flavor claim and I think Mcmc should choose the order.

Ugh, why? Scum have fakeclaims.

Only of vanilla townie flavor. Read the setup.

Hmmm, you're right, it does say that, but is VT flavor distinguishable from town cop flavor?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia
Post by: LaLight on September 03, 2018, 12:15:59 pm
Each city will be given one of the three cop flavor names that is not randomly given to the three town cops.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on September 03, 2018, 12:16:18 pm
Read the setup.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Robz888 on September 03, 2018, 12:17:29 pm
I can't tell what's different about the flavor, though I haven't read it closely. Okay, sure, I suppose we should do this. Sort of sucks if the mod gave scum fake claims that don't work for cop, though.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on September 03, 2018, 12:18:17 pm
I can't tell what's different about the flavor, though I haven't read it closely. Okay, sure, I suppose we should do this. Sort of sucks if the mod gave scum fake claims that don't work for cop, though.

Please, read, what I posted above.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Robz888 on September 03, 2018, 12:19:18 pm
I can't tell what's different about the flavor, though I haven't read it closely. Okay, sure, I suppose we should do this. Sort of sucks if the mod gave scum fake claims that don't work for cop, though.

Please, read, what I posted above.

Oh, yeah. That supports my initial argument, that this is pointless and we shouldn't do it, yes?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on September 03, 2018, 12:20:07 pm
I can't tell what's different about the flavor, though I haven't read it closely. Okay, sure, I suppose we should do this. Sort of sucks if the mod gave scum fake claims that don't work for cop, though.

Please, read, what I posted above.

Oh, yeah. That supports my initial argument, that this is pointless and we shouldn't do it, yes?

yes
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Robz888 on September 03, 2018, 12:22:22 pm
Great. Thanks. DS, E?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Robz888 on September 03, 2018, 12:22:31 pm
^^ results plz
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on September 03, 2018, 12:26:52 pm
I can't tell what's different about the flavor, though I haven't read it closely. Okay, sure, I suppose we should do this. Sort of sucks if the mod gave scum fake claims that don't work for cop, though.

Please, read, what I posted above.

Oh, yeah. That supports my initial argument, that this is pointless and we shouldn't do it, yes?

Dude no. To spell it out: there are 6 choices. 5 now. If the scum chooses first, or even second, there is a chance that they'll pick one that an actual cop has. So we can then know scum between 2 rather than 3 cops.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia
Post by: LaLight on September 03, 2018, 12:30:36 pm
Each city will be given one of the three cop flavor names that is not randomly given to the three town cops.

Dsell, please read this carefully
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on September 03, 2018, 12:31:14 pm
Scum gets claims that ARE NOT given to actual cops. This is non-confirmable
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on September 03, 2018, 12:31:38 pm
They get 3 out of 6 fakeclaims. That are not used
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia
Post by: Robz888 on September 03, 2018, 12:32:20 pm

Each city will be given one of the three cop flavor names that is not randomly given to the three town cops. Vanilla townies will be given a random small town in the Pacific Northwest region; mafia will also be given a small town flavor name to be used as a vanilla town fakeclaim.

Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia
Post by: LaLight on September 03, 2018, 12:34:32 pm

Each city will be given one of the three cop flavor names that is not randomly given to the three town cops. Vanilla townies will be given a random small town in the Pacific Northwest region; mafia will also be given a small town flavor name to be used as a vanilla town fakeclaim.


Which effectively means scum will be given vt and cop fakeclaims they can safely claim
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on September 03, 2018, 12:35:49 pm
I will reread gkrieg at some point
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia
Post by: Dsell on September 03, 2018, 12:38:00 pm
Each city will be given one of the three cop flavor names that is not randomly given to the three town cops.

Dsell, please read this carefully

Ahhhh shit I forgot city meant cop. Sorry all.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia
Post by: Dsell on September 03, 2018, 12:38:17 pm
Each city will be given one of the three cop flavor names that is not randomly given to the three town cops.

Dsell, please read this carefully

Ahhhh shit I forgot city meant cop. Sorry all.

City meant *mafia
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia
Post by: LaLight on September 03, 2018, 12:42:48 pm
Each city will be given one of the three cop flavor names that is not randomly given to the three town cops.

Dsell, please read this carefully

Ahhhh shit I forgot city meant cop. Sorry all.

I donít buy this townslip to be specific
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on September 03, 2018, 12:43:42 pm
I actually think we should just lynch e
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Hydrad on September 03, 2018, 01:42:55 pm
huh that wasn't what I was expecting.

I guess I may as well explain my reasoning now.

I was super sure gkrieg was the insane cop as in my opinion I thought him or maybe dsell were really the only ones in position to safely keep quiet.

as him being the second last to claim he would either know that

a) if no one else claimed behind him he just didn't out himself.
or
b) someone claimed behind him if its town he can stay quiet or if its scum he could out himself to 1v1 it(this one could backfire)

But either way I just felt like that was the perfect spot for an insane cop to keep silent.

I did not expect awaclus to be it, but I guess it worked.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Joseph2302 on September 03, 2018, 03:49:04 pm
I actually think we should just lynch e
Might as well wait for the claimed cops to give results first
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on September 03, 2018, 03:51:19 pm
I actually think we should just lynch e
Might as well wait for the claimed cops to give results first

Thatís why I am not voting him.

Also there was a fire in my house, electricity is off, my computer is charged off and i have last 10% on my phone
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on September 03, 2018, 03:59:19 pm
I actually think we should just lynch e
Might as well wait for the claimed cops to give results first

Thatís why I am not voting him.

Also there was a fire in my house, electricity is off, my computer is charged off and i have last 10% on my phone

Oh my god, I'm so sorry. Hope everyone is ok and you didn't lose too much.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on September 03, 2018, 04:05:21 pm
I actually think we should just lynch e
Might as well wait for the claimed cops to give results first

Thatís why I am not voting him.

Also there was a fire in my house, electricity is off, my computer is charged off and i have last 10% on my phone

Oh my god, I'm so sorry. Hope everyone is ok and you didn't lose too much.

It's fine, it was some electrical stuff on the 5th floor. No one got injured, except there's a horrible smell everywhere. Till tomorrow!
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 03, 2018, 04:46:50 pm
I investigated Datswan and got scum.  Maybe I was framed, as cops make good frame targets since we now know that the fake cop is regular scum not traitor, probably would have investigated a VT had I thought more about it but I just got excited when gkrieg flipped traitor and with my limited access over the weekend went with the first thing that I thought of.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: mcmcsalot on September 03, 2018, 04:54:18 pm
I investigated Datswan and got scum.  Maybe I was framed, as cops make good frame targets since we now know that the fake cop is regular scum not traitor, probably would have investigated a VT had I thought more about it but I just got excited when gkrieg flipped traitor and with my limited access over the weekend went with the first thing that I thought of.

Yes this is extremely scummy as you knew scum results are unhelpful due to mafiaís ability to frame. I guess a town result in DatSwan would have icíd him and his result so meh it was a toss up and it didnít work out.

Actually he scummy part is that you didnít explain this as your thought process. You explained in a very meh I didnít hunk too much about my copping.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Robz888 on September 03, 2018, 05:11:27 pm
What E said: "Lol I am mafia."
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Galzria on September 03, 2018, 05:12:30 pm
What E said: "Lol I am mafia."
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Hydrad on September 03, 2018, 05:13:02 pm
I investigated Datswan and got scum.  Maybe I was framed, as cops make good frame targets since we now know that the fake cop is regular scum not traitor, probably would have investigated a VT had I thought more about it but I just got excited when gkrieg flipped traitor and with my limited access over the weekend went with the first thing that I thought of.

This doesn't feel believable to me.

I'd be very surprised if scum decided to frame a cop.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Hydrad on September 03, 2018, 05:13:27 pm
welp. looks like everyone is basically on the same page.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Galzria on September 03, 2018, 05:15:23 pm
Also, apologies for my massive absence prior to deadline (close to 48 hours) - I'm in survival mode at work right now with 40% of my staff out of country for 3 weeks. Last week was their first gone, I think settling in to how I'm going to manage to operate without them was the worst of it. Now I've got a gameplan for the next two weeks... while I'll still be exhausted, I won't feel like I'm scrambling every day to figure out what I'm doing.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Joseph2302 on September 03, 2018, 05:15:51 pm
I investigated Datswan and got scum.  Maybe I was framed, as cops make good frame targets since we now know that the fake cop is regular scum not traitor, probably would have investigated a VT had I thought more about it but I just got excited when gkrieg flipped traitor and with my limited access over the weekend went with the first thing that I thought of.

This doesn't feel believable to me.

I'd be very surprised if scum decided to frame a cop.
Yes this seems like lying scum
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Joseph2302 on September 03, 2018, 05:16:37 pm
Once DatSwan has claimed, we can probably just lynch e
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on September 03, 2018, 05:55:33 pm
Very much agree that e's explanation was scummy as hell.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on September 03, 2018, 05:59:31 pm
What's cool is that there's exactly one, and only one, scum in:

Dsell
Mcmc
Galzria
Hydrad
Robz
Joseph

And Mcmc is virtually IC.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: DatSwan on September 03, 2018, 07:53:21 pm
OK Status Update based on the night and end of day:

1) I no longer believe LL is skum (even before E!'s results) because it was 100% predicated on them being exactly the Traitor.
2) MCMC is confirmed IC. I copped them as well and got a Town result.
3) Awaclus - good play dude.
4) LL I think you messed up a little bit by searching my target. Awaclus stated pretty clearly not to search a cop or to cross targets (the idea being because we cannot find skum 100% bc of framers, we want to give ourselves the highest chance of getting town results we can trust). Either way, I also do not think you are skum, just pointing it out becauuuusssssseeee

E! pretty much has to be skum here. Awaclus was clearly going to flip Insane and GK flipped Traitor. We have a pool of 1/3 and a pool of 1/6. The clear pro town play was to attempt to get cop results we could trust (which are town results) on the pool we need to limit (not the cops).


Then there is just the order of the claim...
LL claims result on MCMC, E! volunteers to claim his result on me. If it is skum!E he knows the only person left is me to claim and I obv didn't cop myself... so this result is safe because if he claims anyone else, and I also picked that person and got a different result - he is screwed.

There is some more to think about though. LL messing up and targeting MCMC is possibly a skum play, but honestly there is only one of them in the 2 of those players and E! is wayyy skummier at this point.

Whatever - everything aside - at least MCMC is IC 100%
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: DatSwan on September 03, 2018, 07:56:06 pm
Nvm my nonsense about E!s result claim - obv if he is skum he would of been able to safely claim a target correcrly
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Robz888 on September 03, 2018, 08:05:28 pm
LL, why did you cop mcmc? That was a mistake, though Iím not sure it makes you more likely to be scum.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on September 03, 2018, 08:12:32 pm
Vote: e


Honestly not even worried about a quicklynch today lol
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: DatSwan on September 03, 2018, 08:12:50 pm
hm actually let's go ahead and pump the breaks if we are thinking speed lynching E! there are some things that don't like 100% add up.

Let's say he is skum and he chose to fake a skum result on me. What is the play there? Like push for a cop lynch on me, then I flip town... then when E! wakes up claim I had to of been framed? I guess that makes sense.

As opposed to either...
1) Creating an actual IC by giving a result they know to be true. This has the downside of creating an IC. The upside would be that they are 100% safe.
2) Giving a Skum result on a player that is not a cop that they framed last night. This has the downside of it possibly blowing back on them when they flip skum because we will be slightly suspicious... but honestly the player being framed is something that would not be a hard sell. This has the upside of NOT creating an IC, and actually pretty much dictating the lynch target.

Both of those options also do not look nearly as skummy as claiming a result on a cop. Not to mention a skum result in which, if their plan worked, it would be wayyyyyyy easier to get town to lynch a "skum result" outside the cop pool as opposed to trying to get everyone to lynch a cop.


It all comes down to the selection of choose to cop a cop. That is a super skummy thing to claim. But there were like soooooooo many other choices....

The only thing I can think of from an E! is skum narative is that Awaclus found Skum in either Galz or Robz so E! got ahead of a skum result by creating a situation where there is more than one? IDK...
he is probably skum.

Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: DatSwan on September 03, 2018, 08:29:22 pm
Maybe he thought it through and figured it was safe bc we never choose to lynch a cop?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: mcmcsalot on September 03, 2018, 08:42:18 pm
SO i still think it's not smart to lynch a cop.

If we are right awesome, we win (based on guarenteed town cop results and ic cops) but if we are wrong we lose a result for tomorrow. Mafia has made the incorrect choice of not killing a cop so they force more results and want us to aim at our own cops.

We absolutely keep aiming at the vt's and forcing mafia to kill cops or let us ic
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: DatSwan on September 03, 2018, 09:15:52 pm
SO i still think it's not smart to lynch a cop.

If we are right awesome, we win (based on guarenteed town cop results and ic cops) but if we are wrong we lose a result for tomorrow. Mafia has made the incorrect choice of not killing a cop so they force more results and want us to aim at our own cops.

We absolutely keep aiming at the vt's and forcing mafia to kill cops or let us ic

You are IC... but i wanna point out they did in fact kill a cop
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: DatSwan on September 03, 2018, 09:18:03 pm
SO i still think it's not smart to lynch a cop.

If we are right awesome, we win (based on guarenteed town cop results and ic cops) but if we are wrong we lose a result for tomorrow. Mafia has made the incorrect choice of not killing a cop so they force more results and want us to aim at our own cops.

We absolutely keep aiming at the vt's and forcing mafia to kill cops or let us ic

You are IC... but i wanna point out they did in fact kill a cop

Also i agree with you bc killing outside leaves them with killing one of us or not. Either way works in our favor tomorrow .

That being said - itís like... probably E!
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Robz888 on September 03, 2018, 10:07:32 pm
SO i still think it's not smart to lynch a cop.

If we are right awesome, we win (based on guarenteed town cop results and ic cops) but if we are wrong we lose a result for tomorrow. Mafia has made the incorrect choice of not killing a cop so they force more results and want us to aim at our own cops.

We absolutely keep aiming at the vt's and forcing mafia to kill cops or let us ic

Yeah... I think I agree. We should continue to hunt outside the cops.

I'd still like LL to answer why he investigated mcmc, though.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Galzria on September 03, 2018, 10:21:37 pm
e,

Why did you choose to target Datswan?

Mcmc - The problem here lies in the fact that we have a fairly limited chance to actually receive more useful information, so that argument is more or less moot.

With 5 VT claims to choose from today (you're excluded), 1 of whom is scum, if we lynch incorrectly, that leaves 4 VT claims for our cops to choose from. 1 of those claimed VT's is scum, and will return scum to any Cop that targets them. 2 of those VT's will be framed, and will return scum to any Cop that targets them. That leaves, for tomorrow, just a single VT claim that has a chance of being copped as town. Further, as mafia know who it is that they framed, the mafia cop (e/Datswan/LaLight) can safely claim a scum result on any of 3 players without any fear of having conflicting claims - so we can't catch scum out that way either.

Now, due to the fact that you are both confirmed town, and also not a cop, you're pretty much guaranteed to be killed tonight. So if we mislynch within the VT claims, then tomorrow we wake up to what is most likely 3 useless scum results from our cops - and two pools for scum to exist: 1-in-4 & 1-in-3.

There may be a way to increase our odds of finding the unframed player by directing some, but not all, of our cops - but I want to think on those numbers more.

Regardless, I think if we lynch within the cops... well, obviously hitting scum immediately would be quite strong - not only does it reduce the remaining scum to be 1-in-5 remaining players, but it ALSO removes the ability for scum to frame two players. At this point, scum obviously kills one of the two remaining cops, and frames one of the four "not scum" VT's. This gives the final Cop a 60% chance to create another VT, and a 40% chance to get a scum result (which would itself be a 50% chance of being scum). In addition to ALL of that, they can't kill Mcmc at night, which means we also retain him as an IC.

The downside of lynching in the cops, of course, is lynching wrong and killing one of our cops. In the case of e, it would mean that either Datswan is scum (based on e's results), or that last night scum!LaLight decided to frame Datswan for the EXACT purpose of giving town!e a bad result - but that means scum!LaLight must have reaaalllly been confident that e wasn't going to investigate a VT.

Either way, lynching wrong in the cops today means Mcmc dies tonight, and our remaining cop will have a 40% chance at creating another IC (1 scum, 2 framed VT's within 5 players) tomorrow. It also would mean that our lynch pools tomorrow would be 1-in-2 & 1-in-5, possibly 1-in-4.

I just feel like the benefit of lynching correctly amongst the cops today (which I feel we're more likely to do than amongst the VT claims) far outweighs the risk. Even if we're wrong, tomorrow is 7 alive, 2 of whom are scum - and we have a scum pool with 1-in-2. As we're not at MyLo, we can STILL afford to choose wrong, and we go to 5 alive, 2 of whom are scum - with a confirmed scum. This finally plays out to 3 alive, 1 of whom is scum - standard 3 person MyLo. And that's if we're wrong BOTH times on cop lynches.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Robz888 on September 03, 2018, 10:28:01 pm
Galz might be right, I was just starting to think about this some more and sort of coming to the same conclusion.

Galz, E did give an explanation, he says he sort of just didn't think about it too hard. Not great!
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on September 03, 2018, 11:26:18 pm
Yeah, I cosign Galz here. I'm guessing the scum team is e and Hydrad/Joseph, with an outside shot of Robz.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Robz888 on September 03, 2018, 11:49:04 pm
Yeah, I cosign Galz here. I'm guessing the scum team is e and Hydrad/Joseph, with an outside shot of Robz.

I'm guessing it's E (possibly LL) and Hydrad with an outside chance of Galz.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Hydrad on September 03, 2018, 11:55:26 pm
Yeah, I cosign Galz here. I'm guessing the scum team is e and Hydrad/Joseph, with an outside shot of Robz.

I'm guessing it's E (possibly LL) and Hydrad with an outside chance of Galz.

Yeah, I cosign Galz here. I'm guessing the scum team is e and Hydrad/Joseph, with an outside shot of Robz.

I vote e/robzz

i do not think its me so you shouldn't either.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: DatSwan on September 04, 2018, 02:19:12 am
Yeah, I cosign Galz here. I'm guessing the scum team is e and Hydrad/Joseph, with an outside shot of Robz.

I'm guessing it's E (possibly LL) and Hydrad with an outside chance of Galz.

Yeah, I cosign Galz here. I'm guessing the scum team is e and Hydrad/Joseph, with an outside shot of Robz.

I vote e/robzz

i do not think its me so you shouldn't either.

Who do you like s cons to robz?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Joseph2302 on September 04, 2018, 02:25:40 am
Yeah, I cosign Galz here. I'm guessing the scum team is e and Hydrad/Joseph, with an outside shot of Robz.
It's not Joseph
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on September 04, 2018, 03:08:35 am
OK Status Update based on the night and end of day:

1) I no longer believe LL is skum (even before E!'s results) because it was 100% predicated on them being exactly the Traitor.
2) MCMC is confirmed IC. I copped them as well and got a Town result.
3) Awaclus - good play dude.
4) LL I think you messed up a little bit by searching my target. Awaclus stated pretty clearly not to search a cop or to cross targets (the idea being because we cannot find skum 100% bc of framers, we want to give ourselves the highest chance of getting town results we can trust). Either way, I also do not think you are skum, just pointing it out becauuuusssssseeee

E! pretty much has to be skum here. Awaclus was clearly going to flip Insane and GK flipped Traitor. We have a pool of 1/3 and a pool of 1/6. The clear pro town play was to attempt to get cop results we could trust (which are town results) on the pool we need to limit (not the cops).


Then there is just the order of the claim...
LL claims result on MCMC, E! volunteers to claim his result on me. If it is skum!E he knows the only person left is me to claim and I obv didn't cop myself... so this result is safe because if he claims anyone else, and I also picked that person and got a different result - he is screwed.

There is some more to think about though. LL messing up and targeting MCMC is possibly a skum play, but honestly there is only one of them in the 2 of those players and E! is wayyy skummier at this point.

Whatever - everything aside - at least MCMC is IC 100%

I did mess up. I was very salty about my reads being wrong again and submitted an order without thinking. Then i tried to change it but it was late, there is apparently an action window (grumble grumble why not do it the whole night)
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on September 04, 2018, 03:10:02 am
vote: 2.71828..... and i think Galz is second
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Robz888 on September 04, 2018, 03:11:11 am
So two of our alleged cops claim they didn't think very hard about their cop choices. I don't believe either of you, but obviously you can't both be lying...
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on September 04, 2018, 03:11:54 am
DatSwan, we need to split vts into 3/2 sets to not cop same target again and not give an idea who to frame
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on September 04, 2018, 03:12:41 am
So two of our alleged cops claim they didn't think very hard about their cop choices. I don't believe either of you, but obviously you can't both be lying...

Nice shading! Next you say two real cops never claimed and we all are scums? :)
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Galzria on September 04, 2018, 03:14:26 am
vote: e
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Galzria on September 04, 2018, 03:15:46 am
vote: 2.71828..... and i think Galz is second

You'll be disappointed - but I can't recall you ever once reading me correctly, so there's that.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Robz888 on September 04, 2018, 03:21:23 am
DatSwan, we need to split vts into 3/2 sets to not cop same target again and not give an idea who to frame

Here, I'll do it.

DS cops between Robz, Galz, joseph
LL cops either Dsell or hydrad.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: DatSwan on September 04, 2018, 03:24:03 am
GK never got on robz.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on September 04, 2018, 04:11:22 am
vote: 2.71828..... and i think Galz is second

You'll be disappointed - but I can't recall you ever once reading me correctly, so there's that.

I mean.. yeah, I am unable to read anyone correctly :)
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on September 04, 2018, 04:11:52 am
DatSwan, we need to split vts into 3/2 sets to not cop same target again and not give an idea who to frame

Here, I'll do it.

DS cops between Robz, Galz, joseph
LL cops either Dsell or hydrad.

Thanks oh so helpful Robz :)
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Galzria on September 04, 2018, 04:48:35 am
vote: 2.71828..... and i think Galz is second

You'll be disappointed - but I can't recall you ever once reading me correctly, so there's that.

I mean.. yeah, I am unable to read anyone correctly :)

To be fair, from a reads perspective I find you way scummier than e, but from a logical perspective I just believe that e is scum - so if I'm right about that then my reads aren't thur greatest either.

At least if e is scum, town can lynch me tomorrow without a heck of a lot of consequence. 7 alive consisting of: 1 scum, 2-3 IC's, and 3-4 unknowns.

Also:

DatSwan, we need to split vts into 3/2 sets to not cop same target again and not give an idea who to frame

Here, I'll do it.

DS cops between Robz, Galz, joseph
LL cops either Dsell or hydrad.

This is bad and Robz should feel bad. If Robz is scum with e, what he's essentially saying is "I'm going to kill Datswan tonight so I can't be copped, and then I'll frame randomly between Dsell/Hydrad and hope to set up an easy mislynch tomorrow, buying myself an extra day to get rid of the last cop."

I would suggest either you two come up with something on your own, or leave it to chance that you won't collide again on 1-in-5 odds.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on September 04, 2018, 04:56:33 am
vote: 2.71828..... and i think Galz is second

You'll be disappointed - but I can't recall you ever once reading me correctly, so there's that.

I mean.. yeah, I am unable to read anyone correctly :)

To be fair, from a reads perspective I find you way scummier than e, but from a logical perspective I just believe that e is scum - so if I'm right about that then my reads aren't thur greatest either.

At least if e is scum, town can lynch me tomorrow without a heck of a lot of consequence. 7 alive consisting of: 1 scum, 2-3 IC's, and 3-4 unknowns.

Also:

DatSwan, we need to split vts into 3/2 sets to not cop same target again and not give an idea who to frame

Here, I'll do it.

DS cops between Robz, Galz, joseph
LL cops either Dsell or hydrad.

This is bad and Robz should feel bad. If Robz is scum with e, what he's essentially saying is "I'm going to kill Datswan tonight so I can't be copped, and then I'll frame randomly between Dsell/Hydrad and hope to set up an easy mislynch tomorrow, buying myself an extra day to get rid of the last cop."

I would suggest either you two come up with something on your own, or leave it to chance that you won't collide again on 1-in-5 odds.

Our goal is not to find scum but to find town. We canít trust scum results
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Galzria on September 04, 2018, 04:59:52 am
vote: 2.71828..... and i think Galz is second

You'll be disappointed - but I can't recall you ever once reading me correctly, so there's that.

I mean.. yeah, I am unable to read anyone correctly :)

To be fair, from a reads perspective I find you way scummier than e, but from a logical perspective I just believe that e is scum - so if I'm right about that then my reads aren't thur greatest either.

At least if e is scum, town can lynch me tomorrow without a heck of a lot of consequence. 7 alive consisting of: 1 scum, 2-3 IC's, and 3-4 unknowns.

Also:

DatSwan, we need to split vts into 3/2 sets to not cop same target again and not give an idea who to frame

Here, I'll do it.

DS cops between Robz, Galz, joseph
LL cops either Dsell or hydrad.

This is bad and Robz should feel bad. If Robz is scum with e, what he's essentially saying is "I'm going to kill Datswan tonight so I can't be copped, and then I'll frame randomly between Dsell/Hydrad and hope to set up an easy mislynch tomorrow, buying myself an extra day to get rid of the last cop."

I would suggest either you two come up with something on your own, or leave it to chance that you won't collide again on 1-in-5 odds.

Our goal is not to find scum but to find town. We canít trust scum results

That's correct, but a scum result with 1 scum remaining is a 50/50 to br the final scum, and thus is almost always the correct lynch.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Robz888 on September 04, 2018, 05:11:41 am
I'm not bad and I don't feel bad.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Robz888 on September 04, 2018, 05:12:40 am
It was important to get something down in case the hammer fell before they came up with an alternate plan. Two of the purported cops did really bad things last night, and I'd like to avoid that again.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 04, 2018, 05:23:16 am
It was a long weekend that I spent most of the time hiking or rafting, not thinking about the game. The good thing is that even if I get lynched and scum kill the last cop (giving us the auto lynch of scum cop tomorrow) we will have 5 alive with an IC, pretty decent chance there
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Joseph2302 on September 04, 2018, 05:34:43 am
vote: 2.71828..... and i think Galz is second

You'll be disappointed - but I can't recall you ever once reading me correctly, so there's that.

I mean.. yeah, I am unable to read anyone correctly :)

To be fair, from a reads perspective I find you way scummier than e, but from a logical perspective I just believe that e is scum - so if I'm right about that then my reads aren't thur greatest either.

At least if e is scum, town can lynch me tomorrow without a heck of a lot of consequence. 7 alive consisting of: 1 scum, 2-3 IC's, and 3-4 unknowns.

Also:

DatSwan, we need to split vts into 3/2 sets to not cop same target again and not give an idea who to frame

Here, I'll do it.

DS cops between Robz, Galz, joseph
LL cops either Dsell or hydrad.

This is bad and Robz should feel bad. If Robz is scum with e, what he's essentially saying is "I'm going to kill Datswan tonight so I can't be copped, and then I'll frame randomly between Dsell/Hydrad and hope to set up an easy mislynch tomorrow, buying myself an extra day to get rid of the last cop."

I would suggest either you two come up with something on your own, or leave it to chance that you won't collide again on 1-in-5 odds.
Town on Galz and scum on Robz. I agree this plan from Robz is so flawed and easy for scum to manipulate
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Joseph2302 on September 04, 2018, 05:36:05 am
It's got to be e, and most likely Robz
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on September 04, 2018, 05:53:37 am
So anyone feeling like voting e?

DS, I propose:

Me - one of Robz, Hydrad, Galzria

You - one of Joseph and Dsell
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: mcmcsalot on September 04, 2018, 06:58:35 am
Jeez would yíall give me a a second.

I think others are right lynching in cops is good but let me run through some stuff.

If needed Iíll come up with a grouping of players for cops.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Joseph2302 on September 04, 2018, 08:38:28 am
So anyone feeling like voting e?

DS, I propose:

Me - one of Robz, Hydrad, Galzria

You - one of Joseph and Dsell
I will vote e, just not right now.
I'd like others, especially mcmc, to contribute about what cops should do first.
Quick lynch is not needed as we have an opportunity to plan for tomorrow right now
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Joseph2302 on September 04, 2018, 08:54:24 am
My personal preference would be cops choose who they want and don't tell us today. That limits the ability of scum to manipulate.

If people want an order, mcmc should do it, as the IC
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: mcmcsalot on September 04, 2018, 10:10:46 am
Okay Iím still undecided on to kill in or out of cops. Here are the two worst case scenarios. Using actual names for ease of explaination but they could be any order.

Here is where we are at with one scum in each parenthesis.
(LL, Swan, E) [mcmc, (robz, galz, dsell, hydrad, joseph)]

A) If we lynch inside cops
A1) and Mafia kills the other cop
(LL, Swan, E) [mcmc, (robz, galz, dsell, hydrad, joseph)]
(E) [mcmc, (robz, galz, dsell, hydrad, joseph)] we clearly lynch conf!scum E
(robz, galz, dsell, hydrad, joseph) we are left with 4 vts and one scum

A2) Mafia kills me
(LL, Swan, E) [mcmc, (robz, galz, dsell, hydrad, joseph)]
(Swan, E) (robz, galz, dsell, hydrad, joseph) you probably go for the other cop here if you guess right mafia kills the last cop and we are back at 4 vts and one scum.
(robz, galz, dsell, hydrad, joseph)
If you guess wrong mafia kills a vt, then you lynch the scum cop and they kill another vt leaving 2 vts and 1 scum.


B) If we lynch outside the cops
(LL, Swan, E) [mcmc, (robz, galz, dsell, hydrad, joseph)]
(LL, Swan, E) (galz, dsell, hydrad, joseph)] If each cop target one of a group of two there is a 50% chance we end up with another IC because one group will have to have one person who investigates as town. If we get unlucky we still lynch from outside the cops.
(LL, Swan, E) (hydrad, joseph) then you have one scum in two and one scum in three which is better than one scum in five.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on September 04, 2018, 10:17:18 am
Okay Iím still undecided on to kill in or out of cops. Here are the two worst case scenarios. Using actual names for ease of explaination but they could be any order.

Here is where we are at with one scum in each parenthesis.
(LL, Swan, E) [mcmc, (robz, galz, dsell, hydrad, joseph)]

A) If we lynch inside cops
A1) and Mafia kills the other cop
(LL, Swan, E) [mcmc, (robz, galz, dsell, hydrad, joseph)]
(E) [mcmc, (robz, galz, dsell, hydrad, joseph)] we clearly lynch conf!scum E
(robz, galz, dsell, hydrad, joseph) we are left with 4 vts and one scum

A2) Mafia kills me
(LL, Swan, E) [mcmc, (robz, galz, dsell, hydrad, joseph)]
(Swan, E) (robz, galz, dsell, hydrad, joseph) you probably go for the other cop here if you guess right mafia kills the last cop and we are back at 4 vts and one scum.
(robz, galz, dsell, hydrad, joseph)
If you guess wrong mafia kills a vt, then you lynch the scum cop and they kill another vt leaving 2 vts and 1 scum.


B) If we lynch outside the cops
(LL, Swan, E) [mcmc, (robz, galz, dsell, hydrad, joseph)]
(LL, Swan, E) (galz, dsell, hydrad, joseph)] If each cop target one of a group of two there is a 50% chance we end up with another IC because one group will have to have one person who investigates as town. If we get unlucky we still lynch from outside the cops.
(LL, Swan, E) (hydrad, joseph) then you have one scum in two and one scum in three which is better than one scum in five.

One scum in 2 and 1 scum in 3 is worse because of quickhammer
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on September 04, 2018, 10:17:36 am
Okay Iím still undecided on to kill in or out of cops. Here are the two worst case scenarios. Using actual names for ease of explaination but they could be any order.

Here is where we are at with one scum in each parenthesis.
(LL, Swan, E) [mcmc, (robz, galz, dsell, hydrad, joseph)]

A) If we lynch inside cops
A1) and Mafia kills the other cop
(LL, Swan, E) [mcmc, (robz, galz, dsell, hydrad, joseph)]
(E) [mcmc, (robz, galz, dsell, hydrad, joseph)] we clearly lynch conf!scum E
(robz, galz, dsell, hydrad, joseph) we are left with 4 vts and one scum

A2) Mafia kills me
(LL, Swan, E) [mcmc, (robz, galz, dsell, hydrad, joseph)]
(Swan, E) (robz, galz, dsell, hydrad, joseph) you probably go for the other cop here if you guess right mafia kills the last cop and we are back at 4 vts and one scum.
(robz, galz, dsell, hydrad, joseph)
If you guess wrong mafia kills a vt, then you lynch the scum cop and they kill another vt leaving 2 vts and 1 scum.


B) If we lynch outside the cops
(LL, Swan, E) [mcmc, (robz, galz, dsell, hydrad, joseph)]
(LL, Swan, E) (galz, dsell, hydrad, joseph)] If each cop target one of a group of two there is a 50% chance we end up with another IC because one group will have to have one person who investigates as town. If we get unlucky we still lynch from outside the cops.
(LL, Swan, E) (hydrad, joseph) then you have one scum in two and one scum in three which is better than one scum in five.

One scum in 2 and 1 scum in 3 is worse because of quickhammer

1 scum in 5 is much-much better
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on September 04, 2018, 10:17:47 am
because we still have reads.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Robz888 on September 04, 2018, 10:22:27 am
vote: 2.71828..... and i think Galz is second

You'll be disappointed - but I can't recall you ever once reading me correctly, so there's that.

I mean.. yeah, I am unable to read anyone correctly :)

To be fair, from a reads perspective I find you way scummier than e, but from a logical perspective I just believe that e is scum - so if I'm right about that then my reads aren't thur greatest either.

At least if e is scum, town can lynch me tomorrow without a heck of a lot of consequence. 7 alive consisting of: 1 scum, 2-3 IC's, and 3-4 unknowns.

Also:

DatSwan, we need to split vts into 3/2 sets to not cop same target again and not give an idea who to frame

Here, I'll do it.

DS cops between Robz, Galz, joseph
LL cops either Dsell or hydrad.

This is bad and Robz should feel bad. If Robz is scum with e, what he's essentially saying is "I'm going to kill Datswan tonight so I can't be copped, and then I'll frame randomly between Dsell/Hydrad and hope to set up an easy mislynch tomorrow, buying myself an extra day to get rid of the last cop."

I would suggest either you two come up with something on your own, or leave it to chance that you won't collide again on 1-in-5 odds.
Town on Galz and scum on Robz. I agree this plan from Robz is so flawed and easy for scum to manipulate

ďIt was scummy to quickly propose a plan that would avoid the issue we had last night, in case a quick hammer came.Ē Try again.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: mcmcsalot on September 04, 2018, 10:29:16 am
Okay actually yes lynching 2.7 is the right move.

I will figure out what targets/groups lalight and swan should aim at.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: mcmcsalot on September 04, 2018, 10:39:56 am
Day 1 final vote count
Lalight (1): Awaclus
gkrieg13 (1): Hydrad
pingpongsam (7): faust, McMcsalot, Joseph2302, Robz888, Lalight, gkrieg13, 2.71828...

not voting (4): Dsell, DatSwan, pingpongsam, Galzria

Day 2 Final Vote Count
Galzria (1): gkrieg13
Robz888 (3): Joseph2302, Hydrad, Lalight
gkrieg13 (6): McMcsalot, Robz888, 2.71828..., Dsell, DatSwan, Awaclus

not voting (1): Galzria
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: mcmcsalot on September 04, 2018, 10:46:17 am
If 2.7 flips scum

DatSwan should investigate one of Joseph and robz
Lalight should investigate one of dsell and hydrad


If 2.7 flips town

DatSwan investigate one of Joseph/robz/dsell
Lalight investigate one of Joseph/robz/hydrad
Lalight should claim first tomorrow.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on September 04, 2018, 10:50:03 am
If 2.7 flips scum

DatSwan should investigate one of Joseph and robz
Lalight should investigate one of dsell and hydrad


If 2.7 flips town

DatSwan investigate one of Joseph/robz/dsell
Lalight investigate one of Joseph/robz/hydrad
Lalight should claim first tomorrow.

And Galz? You limit scum options
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: mcmcsalot on September 04, 2018, 10:50:43 am
My reasoning has lots to do with the quicklynch that I think is rather informtive. Mafia had nk awareness that gkrieg was traitor. The quicklynch is almost guaranteed not to have both mafia players on wagon. Why pool up like that for a scummy looking quicklynch. Also from gkriegs stance I think he jumped on board knowing no scum were on wagon and scum was likely to hammer. Hence 2.7 doing so.

I am quite confident there is only one scum in Joseph/robz/lalight/2.7
I am fairly confident there is one scum in lalight/2.7
Resulting is relative confidence that robz and Joseph are town.

I think galz or hydrad are the final scum. Based on dsellís overall towny play.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: mcmcsalot on September 04, 2018, 10:55:44 am
If 2.7 flips scum

DatSwan should investigate one of Joseph and robz
Lalight should investigate one of dsell and hydrad


If 2.7 flips town

DatSwan investigate one of Joseph/robz/dsell
Lalight investigate one of Joseph/robz/hydrad
Lalight should claim first tomorrow.

And Galz? You limit scum options

Sorry I donít follow? I want to give both cops a pool of two town players so mafia can only kill one cop and frame one town player in he other cops pool and then we have a 50% chance of getting another ic. Adding galz potentially adds a scum result to the pool reducing the chance someone gets a town result.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on September 04, 2018, 10:56:32 am
If 2.7 flips scum

DatSwan should investigate one of Joseph and robz
Lalight should investigate one of dsell and hydrad


If 2.7 flips town

DatSwan investigate one of Joseph/robz/dsell
Lalight investigate one of Joseph/robz/hydrad
Lalight should claim first tomorrow.

And Galz? You limit scum options

Sorry I donít follow? I want to give both cops a pool of two town players so mafia can only kill one cop and frame one town player in he other cops pool and then we have a 50% chance of getting another ic. Adding galz potentially adds a scum result to the pool reducing the chance someone gets a town result.

hmm ok
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on September 04, 2018, 11:00:10 am
why should I always be the first to claim
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: mcmcsalot on September 04, 2018, 11:01:11 am
why should I always be the first to claim

If 2.7 flips scum it doesnít matter who claims first I didnít mean to imply you had to.

If 2.7 flips town you are more likely to be scum than DatSwan so you should
Claim first.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on September 04, 2018, 11:01:32 am
why should I always be the first to claim

If 2.7 flips scum it doesnít matter who claims first I didnít mean to imply you had to.

If 2.7 flips town you are more likely to be scum than DatSwan so you should
Claim first.

ok then
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on September 04, 2018, 11:01:50 am
I disagree, but I can't show you my qt so
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: mcmcsalot on September 04, 2018, 11:08:51 am
I disagree, but I can't show you my qt so

Who do you think is scum between DatSwan and 2.7?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on September 04, 2018, 11:16:17 am
I disagree, but I can't show you my qt so

Who do you think is scum between DatSwan and 2.7?

I am sure it's 2.7. But if it is not, for some reason, that would mean DatSwan pull out some awesome gambit.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Robz888 on September 04, 2018, 11:28:40 am
Why is Galz not an option for investigation? I really think mcmc's plan is worse than my original one.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Galzria on September 04, 2018, 11:52:24 am
Why is Galz not an option for investigation? I really think mcmc's plan is worse than my original one.

I do too, but because I know his reasoning is flawed. Because I'm town, he's either guaranteeing we get no town results - scum resides as a subset of {Dsell, Hydrad} & {Joseph, Robz}. With Mcmc's plan, scum can shoot the cop investigating two town, and frame the person within his grouping to guarentee a scum result from the remaining cop. Hell, even if I were scum, you've just created a 50/50 that I can frame a scum result on a VT for tomorrow, and given scum results should generally be followed (assuming e is scum here, a scum result tonight represents a 50% likelihood of being scum, which is better odds than lynching elsewhere), that would be a great situation for scum!me.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on September 04, 2018, 12:05:31 pm
Today is obviously a lot more complicated than I thought. I have read everything but not closely enough to have strong opinions or input. I definitely want to lynch e and am guessing that's where we'll end up, but I will do a more close reread later on and hopefully have some thoughts.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: mcmcsalot on September 04, 2018, 12:20:26 pm
Actually I think the best cop plan may in fact be to just cop anyone. No direction at all. Itís the only way mafia doesnít know which cop to kill and which towny to frame.

New plan. lalight and DatSwan both target on of (robz, galz, dsell, hydrad, Joseph)

Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Robz888 on September 04, 2018, 12:28:11 pm
Even better plan: LL, cop one of Dsell, Galz, hydrad.

DatSwan, do whatever moves you.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: mcmcsalot on September 04, 2018, 12:42:49 pm
Even better plan: LL, cop one of Dsell, Galz, hydrad.

DatSwan, do whatever moves you.

No because again if one of dsell/galz/hydrad is scum they kill DatSwan, frame one of dsell/galz/hydrad and how we have only a 33% chance to get a town result.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Galzria on September 04, 2018, 12:43:14 pm
LL should investigate within {A, B} 80% of the time, and {C} 20% of the time, while Datswan should investigate within {D, E} 80% of the time, and {C} 20% of the time - each player doing a random die roll each night to determine their subgrouping. Mcmc can assign A through E.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: mcmcsalot on September 04, 2018, 12:52:46 pm
LL should investigate within {A, B} 80% of the time, and {C} 20% of the time, while Datswan should investigate within {D, E} 80% of the time, and {C} 20% of the time - each player doing a random die roll each night to determine their subgrouping. Mcmc can assign A through E.

This is exactly my original plan with a 20% chance DatSwan or lalight investigate you. I absolutely think them choosing any of the vtís they want is he best bet
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Galzria on September 04, 2018, 12:55:16 pm
LL should investigate within {A, B} 80% of the time, and {C} 20% of the time, while Datswan should investigate within {D, E} 80% of the time, and {C} 20% of the time - each player doing a random die roll each night to determine their subgrouping. Mcmc can assign A through E.

This is exactly my original plan with a 20% chance DatSwan or lalight investigate you. I absolutely think them choosing any of the vtís they want is he best bet

You did not include any option to investigate me, and thus it is not exactly your original plan, which, due to that omission is significantly worse than what I just proposed.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Galzria on September 04, 2018, 01:41:51 pm
Eh, pure random is probably better anyway. In any combination of pairings of {2, 2, 1}, unless scum is the {1}, they are given the opportunity to WIFOM us by:

choosing to kill their own investigating cop, while framing the other subset (providing us an 80% chance at a 50% incorrect scum result, 50% IC town result, or a 20% chance of a 100% IC result)

choosing to kill their own investigating cop, while framing the lone player (providing us an 80% chance at a 100% IC result, or a 20% chance at a 100% incorrect scum result)

choosing to kill the secondary cop and framing within their own subset (providing us an 80% chance at a 50% incorrect scum result, 50% accurate scum result, or a 20% chance at a 100% IC result)

If the scum is the {1}, they can kill either cop and frame within the opposite subset (providing us with an 80% chance at a 50% incorrect scum result, 50% IC town result, or a 20% chance of a 100% correct scum result)

The thing is, while generally speaking lynching any returned scum result is the correct play based on them having a strict 50/50 to be scum - it's actually not that difficult for scum to manipulate the majority of scum results to be returned on a framed player rather than themselves. And that in and of itself creates a loophole for scum to allow himself to be copped - and thus WIFOM.

Having no system to LL & Datswan's investigations gives scum no power to manipulate the results. A scum result would represent a true 50/50 - and while they may collide their investigations, they're more likely than not going to be fine.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Hydrad on September 04, 2018, 01:54:23 pm
I'm all for all random.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Joseph2302 on September 04, 2018, 03:23:36 pm
I'm all for all random.
Agreed. Any plan at this stage just makes the scum kill/frame easier for them to work out and limit options. Right now it's 1 in 5 or 6, but if we segregate groups it could be as high as 1 in 2 of them framing the person that is copped
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Robz888 on September 04, 2018, 04:31:54 pm
Fine.

Vote: E
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Galzria on September 04, 2018, 05:11:05 pm
We haven't had a VC today, but I believe that is 4 votes (Dsell, LL, Me, Robz) unless I missed one.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on September 04, 2018, 05:15:34 pm
Yeah, after doing some rereading I definitely just think random is better. There's a chance it's not amazingly useful, but I think putting plans out there allows mafia to have some control over the game, which I am uncomfortable with. I don't think we can plan this out with any kind of certainty anyway, nor do I think we need to for town to win.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: DatSwan on September 04, 2018, 05:15:45 pm
please no one hammer for like an 30 minutes so I can read back the day.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Joseph2302 on September 04, 2018, 05:22:53 pm
Going to bed now, intent to hammer when I wake up (so that gives DatSwan 8ish hours to read back)
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Robz888 on September 04, 2018, 05:27:22 pm
E has really rolled over here, so I'm betting he is scum.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: DatSwan on September 04, 2018, 05:42:40 pm
man... i just don't get why E! would take this route. I can't come up with like a single helpful reason for Skum!E to claim results on LL or me....

What is the plan there? They have to know it looks skummy af so there would have to be an inherent upside to it down the road right?
He could of claimed results on any of the VTs... even if we lynch them, the next day he could still play the framing card. Not to mention his "assigned target" was Robz...

He just messed up? That is pretty much what I am left with.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: DatSwan on September 04, 2018, 05:44:52 pm
@ LaLight

I am going to RNG dice the VT pool (minus MCMC) and cop my highest result.
I think you should pretty much do the same.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Galzria on September 04, 2018, 05:55:09 pm
man... i just don't get why E! would take this route. I can't come up with like a single helpful reason for Skum!E to claim results on LL or me....

What is the plan there? They have to know it looks skummy af so there would have to be an inherent upside to it down the road right?
He could of claimed results on any of the VTs... even if we lynch them, the next day he could still play the framing card. Not to mention his "assigned target" was Robz...

He just messed up? That is pretty much what I am left with.

The play is simply to try and get town!you lynched, yeah? I mean, why does scum!LL choose to frame you? On the off chance that town!e decides to cop you?

Maybe that was the play. Maybe scum double framed the two town cops today to set up exactly this situation. Knowing there is Mafia within the 3 claimed cops, it's somewhat reasonable to suspect one of the town cops would search within the cops - double framing guarantees a scum result.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: DatSwan on September 04, 2018, 06:00:31 pm
man... i just don't get why E! would take this route. I can't come up with like a single helpful reason for Skum!E to claim results on LL or me....

What is the plan there? They have to know it looks skummy af so there would have to be an inherent upside to it down the road right?
He could of claimed results on any of the VTs... even if we lynch them, the next day he could still play the framing card. Not to mention his "assigned target" was Robz...

He just messed up? That is pretty much what I am left with.

The play is simply to try and get town!you lynched, yeah? I mean, why does scum!LL choose to frame you? On the off chance that town!e decides to cop you?

Maybe that was the play. Maybe scum double framed the two town cops today to set up exactly this situation. Knowing there is Mafia within the 3 claimed cops, it's somewhat reasonable to suspect one of the town cops would search within the cops - double framing guarantees a scum result.

Yeah I guess? So, I guess that is a narrative for Town!E. Oh jesus now I am messing with myself. Because if that was the set up then LL is DEF going to claim results on my target knowing it will 1) check out, and 2) not create an additional IC.

I am not trying to drag it out guys... I just wanna think it through for a sec.

Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Galzria on September 04, 2018, 06:02:24 pm
unvote

Ugh

I'll revote if directed to by Mcmc.

e, if you're town, don't just let this be thing:
E has really rolled over here, so I'm betting he is scum.

I want to view a narrative for scum!Swan, which I think less likely, and for scum!LL whom, with his scummate, double framed cops last night.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Galzria on September 04, 2018, 06:04:35 pm
man... i just don't get why E! would take this route. I can't come up with like a single helpful reason for Skum!E to claim results on LL or me....

What is the plan there? They have to know it looks skummy af so there would have to be an inherent upside to it down the road right?
He could of claimed results on any of the VTs... even if we lynch them, the next day he could still play the framing card. Not to mention his "assigned target" was Robz...

He just messed up? That is pretty much what I am left with.

The play is simply to try and get town!you lynched, yeah? I mean, why does scum!LL choose to frame you? On the off chance that town!e decides to cop you?

Maybe that was the play. Maybe scum double framed the two town cops today to set up exactly this situation. Knowing there is Mafia within the 3 claimed cops, it's somewhat reasonable to suspect one of the town cops would search within the cops - double framing guarantees a scum result.

Yeah I guess? So, I guess that is a narrative for Town!E. Oh jesus now I am messing with myself. Because if that was the set up then LL is DEF going to claim results on my target knowing it will 1) check out, and 2) not create an additional IC.

I am not trying to drag it out guys... I just wanna think it through for a sec.

That may be key. Why did LL change to target your assigned target? Laziness?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on September 04, 2018, 06:07:35 pm
man... i just don't get why E! would take this route. I can't come up with like a single helpful reason for Skum!E to claim results on LL or me....

What is the plan there? They have to know it looks skummy af so there would have to be an inherent upside to it down the road right?
He could of claimed results on any of the VTs... even if we lynch them, the next day he could still play the framing card. Not to mention his "assigned target" was Robz...

He just messed up? That is pretty much what I am left with.

The play is simply to try and get town!you lynched, yeah? I mean, why does scum!LL choose to frame you? On the off chance that town!e decides to cop you?

Maybe that was the play. Maybe scum double framed the two town cops today to set up exactly this situation. Knowing there is Mafia within the 3 claimed cops, it's somewhat reasonable to suspect one of the town cops would search within the cops - double framing guarantees a scum result.

Yeah I guess? So, I guess that is a narrative for Town!E. Oh jesus now I am messing with myself. Because if that was the set up then LL is DEF going to claim results on my target knowing it will 1) check out, and 2) not create an additional IC.

I am not trying to drag it out guys... I just wanna think it through for a sec.

That may be key. Why did LL change to target your assigned target? Laziness?

oh god you're really messing with yourselves. I did not change the target. After day ended I didn't read anything except the flip. I saw gkrieg was scum and I was salty about it. I came to my qt and decided to cop anyone who comes to my mind, that was mcmc. After that at some point i reread and saw Awaclus' plan. I tried to change the target but "night action window" closed already. That's how it was, please
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Robz888 on September 04, 2018, 06:20:43 pm
Well now you're calling to mine floundering Serial KIller LL from Lost Mafia!
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Robz888 on September 04, 2018, 06:20:49 pm
mind*
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: DatSwan on September 04, 2018, 06:39:49 pm
man... i just don't get why E! would take this route. I can't come up with like a single helpful reason for Skum!E to claim results on LL or me....

What is the plan there? They have to know it looks skummy af so there would have to be an inherent upside to it down the road right?
He could of claimed results on any of the VTs... even if we lynch them, the next day he could still play the framing card. Not to mention his "assigned target" was Robz...

He just messed up? That is pretty much what I am left with.

The play is simply to try and get town!you lynched, yeah? I mean, why does scum!LL choose to frame you? On the off chance that town!e decides to cop you?

Maybe that was the play. Maybe scum double framed the two town cops today to set up exactly this situation. Knowing there is Mafia within the 3 claimed cops, it's somewhat reasonable to suspect one of the town cops would search within the cops - double framing guarantees a scum result.

Yeah I guess? So, I guess that is a narrative for Town!E. Oh jesus now I am messing with myself. Because if that was the set up then LL is DEF going to claim results on my target knowing it will 1) check out, and 2) not create an additional IC.

I am not trying to drag it out guys... I just wanna think it through for a sec.

That may be key. Why did LL change to target your assigned target? Laziness?

wait what? I mean skum!LL would of "chose" MCMC for obv reasons and current!LL already stated it to be a mistake - so either skum play or mistake.

Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: DatSwan on September 04, 2018, 06:46:14 pm
also Galz - if we lynch E! and are wrong... it goes...

Current 7-2 (2 cops, IC-MCMC)

Tomorrow 5-2 (1 cop)
***This is because if we fuck up and leave it at 1 actual cop and 1 fake cop, skum will probably not kill the final cop. It creates the uncertainty of the results along with not outing their team mate***

Hoping we get it right tomorrow, we go to night at 5-1. Skum kills the last cop. We wake up to either  VT/1Skum or VT/1IC/1Skum.

So that is starting Day 5 at 4-1. From there it is guesswork or whatever, but even at that point we have a second chance.


I wanna make sure that we think everything through. But we need to be sure to advantage of the fact that we nailed GK yesterday.. in the sense that we should talk about theories... but lynch the most likely candidate.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: 2.71828..... on September 04, 2018, 06:53:56 pm

"Rolled over" is a bit extreme. I haven't been active the laser couple days because life. I will try to put some additional analysis in tonight and post some things. I am not entirely certain which of LaLight/Datswan would claim cop I  their position and that is what I will explore unless you have something else you want me to look at.

I can try to defend my night actions if you want, but don't really see the point.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: DatSwan on September 04, 2018, 06:55:13 pm
i would like.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 04, 2018, 07:21:24 pm
Mount Hood
(http://en.es-static.us/upl/2013/06/aurora-mt-hood-Ben-Coffman-Photogrpahy-5-31-to-6-1-2013.jpg)

Vote count 3.2

2.71828... (3): Dsell, Lalight, Robz888

not voting (5): 2.71828..., McMcsalot, Joseph2302, Hydrad, DatSwan

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 3 ends, Monday, September 10, 2018, 11:00:00 am
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Robz888 on September 04, 2018, 07:26:29 pm
i think your count is wrong
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Galzria on September 04, 2018, 07:30:56 pm
Alright, let's look at this from both of the other perspectives: Scum!LL & Scum!Swan. It's important to note that in all cases, Gkrieg knows who the scum team is.

____________________

Gkrieg's first post of the game could definitely be an attempt to tip scum!LL to his identity. I would've taken pretty much whomever he named first as a likely partner - the fact that he fake voted is definitely a mark against LL:
boat: LaLight

Obviously scummy scummy scummy for the information he provided.

After just a handful (3) posts back and forth with faust about the plan, Gkrieg then proclaims LL to be town, along with Joseph - who is town because Gkrieg wants to lynch him. This isn't anything really, but as Gkrieg had 6 total posts D1, it's notable as these remain the only two players he called out with any real reads:
BTW, this is town LaLight.

I also want to lynch Joseph real bad, so probably town there too.

Starting D2, Gkrieg opens by voting e for having quick-hammered PPS the day before. This is before e had claimed Cop, and while it could be Gkrieg trying to get on wagon early of a partner that he believes is going to pick up easy heat... it just doesn't feel like it - on the other hand, in the very next game post he votes for Dsell - so like D1, this could be a play at trying to hint to partners e/Dsell about his identity.

Next item of information is Gkrieg's claim: If Datswan is his partner, Gkrieg had the opportunity to fake claim first - but this is only true for Datswan, as they were the last two in line. If e or LaLight are Gkrieg's partner, then he already knew that mafia had fake claimed, thus making his claim of VT easy. He also knew that Datswan was likely a cop (having 1 fake claim and 1 real claim made thusfar), but he did not know if Datswan was the Insane or Sane cop at this time.

Gkrieg then spends most of the early-mid part of D2 trying to get Dsell/Me lynched for "coaching the traitor", which in the case is himself, and in this case literally nothing we said is applicable to the situation as the traitor wasn't a claimed cop. In post #462, he makes note that he thinks scum messed up by claiming the way they did because "they can't kill the cops because that will PoE them." - this seems especially applicable if one of e/LL is Mafia as their claiming prevented him from doing so in any way - if Datswan was his partner, he would've had control over the claiming as he would've gone before Swan.

In #525 Gkrieg says that e had the towniest cop claim, with LL being a very close second - this also does not lend support to Datswan being his partner.

#542 is pretty clearly telegraphing "Yo, scum buddies, I know what you did here because I'm the traitor" - but he didn't call out anyone by name.

In #594 he called out e's vote specifically on him with "This is a bad vote." - this does give marks towards e being his partner, and not LL/Datswan.

And that's pretty much all I'm seeing from Gkrieg.

Points for Scum!LL: 1st post call-out
Points for Scum!e: Much of his D2 seemed to center around finding e the towniest of the claims - but LL was close. The call-out on specifically e's vote on him being bad seemed partner-y.
Points for Scum!Swan: Really, there isn't much here. He didn't acknowledge Datswan at all D1, which could be a partner tell? And he found him by far the scummiest of the cop claims... but honestly, I just don't see a Gkrieg -> Datswan connection.

----------------------------------------

Honestly, I don't feel like doing a reread on LaLight. While I've personally found him to be the scummiest of the three cops by a fair bit thusfar - It's definitely just my gut feel towards him. I could put together a case, but it wouldn't be the best thing ever. He's posted a LOT, and rereading him and breaking down an actual case would take, like, real effort. So instead, I'll simply as that you indulge the theory below, let me know what ya'll think the likelihood of it being accurate is, and then we can proceed to lynch e, who is probably at worst, equally as likely to be scum as LL:

The theory is pretty straight forward: scum!LL + partner decided last night to double-frame the two town cops on the expectation that it was fairly likely one of town!e/town!Datswan decided to investigate a cop instead of their given VT targets. They knew there was Mafia in the cops, and that player couldn't give a false result in the way the Traitor could've - and the last thing scum wanted was to set up any potential for IC!Cops, as that simply reduced the lynch-pool today. In this theory, LL chose to claim a result on Mcmc, Datswan's designated target, on the idea that Datswan would've targeted either Mcmc (and thus would keep the potential for VT IC's to a minimum), or a Cop - which we've already covered  would come back as a scum result.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Galzria on September 04, 2018, 07:32:40 pm
i think your count is wrong
i think your count is wrong

This is correct. I unvoted. See? unvote
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Galzria on September 04, 2018, 07:37:25 pm
Also, and to be fair to LL, scum! + partner could've had the same play to double frame the cops, and then scum!e took the even safer route of claiming a known framed player as scum, rather than even offer up Mcmc as a IC!VT.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Galzria on September 04, 2018, 07:37:37 pm
Also, and to be fair to LL, scum!e + partner could've had the same play to double frame the cops, and then scum!e took the even safer route of claiming a known framed player as scum, rather than even offer up Mcmc as a IC!VT.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Hydrad on September 04, 2018, 07:43:34 pm
i'm willing to lynch whenever. also. I think everyone is kinda set on this and I think its the right choice.

But looks like people are still thinking about things so i'm just kinda chilling.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Galzria on September 04, 2018, 07:47:18 pm
Yes, I think I'm ready to re-vote. I just wanted to explore the world where e! was town. I think it's actually more reasonable than I had originally given it credit for, and if he IS town, I think LL is definitely scum... but I'm comfortable enough with the e lynch, and I think the spot that we're in is still ok, even if we're wrong.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: DatSwan on September 04, 2018, 08:26:03 pm
Yeah probably have mcmc sign off on it to be sure but Iím good to go i guess too. All the speculation in the world isnít gonna change my mind for  Today so letís do it and see whe I it goes from there
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Galzria on September 04, 2018, 08:30:05 pm
man... i just don't get why E! would take this route. I can't come up with like a single helpful reason for Skum!E to claim results on LL or me....

What is the plan there? They have to know it looks skummy af so there would have to be an inherent upside to it down the road right?
He could of claimed results on any of the VTs... even if we lynch them, the next day he could still play the framing card. Not to mention his "assigned target" was Robz...

He just messed up? That is pretty much what I am left with.

To circle back to this, because I think you were having the slight sense of unease that I was having here - in that there hadn't really been presented a good reason "why" thusfar:

I think the play for scum last night was DEFINITELY to frame both of the town-cops. Given that town, at that point, knew that the Traitor was gone, that removed any possibility of getting a town result when investigating within the cops and having it turn out to be scum - that is, there could be no false-positive there. This meant that not only could scum not kill within the cops because they didn't want to PoE themselves into a corner, but an even worse situation would be for a cop to investigate within the claims and come back with a town result. This would IC the resulted cop, and give pretty hefty town points to the investigating cop.

Yes, framing both of the cops left the door open to a potential for a double-town result on two VT players, but I think scum were banking on one or more of the cops realizing that a town result within the cops could now be trusted with the traitor dead. If nothing else, I would've given the likelihood that a cop decided to investigate within the claims at LEAST equal probability that they both decided to cop VT's - and a town-result on a cop was far more dangerous to scum.

So, given that scum most likely double-framed the town cops, they now know for certain that any claimed result against a cop-claim would come back as scum. e! could not safely fake-claim a scum result in the VT's, because there was a chance that you, Datswan, targeted the same VT and would've come back with a town result. And e! definitely didn't want to create an additional IC by claiming a town result on a VT. So the safest play for scum!e here is to claim a result that he knows is "accurate" given that you were framed. This allows him to claim more or less truthfully, without the possibility of creating another IC.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 04, 2018, 09:10:25 pm
i think your count is wrong

fixed
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Galzria on September 04, 2018, 09:45:42 pm
Intent to revote (back to L-1).
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on September 04, 2018, 10:49:11 pm
Galz (https://i.imgur.com/0sG4DHj.png) is (https://i.imgur.com/0sG4DHj.png) putting (https://i.imgur.com/0sG4DHj.png) in (https://i.imgur.com/0sG4DHj.png) the (https://i.imgur.com/0sG4DHj.png) work (https://i.imgur.com/0sG4DHj.png)
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on September 04, 2018, 10:51:20 pm
But for real I once again cosign what Galz is saying and am grateful that he's putting in the time and effort to ponder this out.

If the scumteam is DatSwan/Galz I should like buy them an edible arrangement because damn  :P
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Galzria on September 04, 2018, 10:52:04 pm
Been an hour. vote: e
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Galzria on September 04, 2018, 10:53:00 pm
Been an hour. vote: e

L-1 again.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Galzria on September 04, 2018, 10:55:03 pm
Galz (https://i.imgur.com/0sG4DHj.png) is (https://i.imgur.com/0sG4DHj.png) putting (https://i.imgur.com/0sG4DHj.png) in (https://i.imgur.com/0sG4DHj.png) the (https://i.imgur.com/0sG4DHj.png) work (https://i.imgur.com/0sG4DHj.png)

I felt bad for intending to do so much on D2, and then essentially falling off entirely. I've been feeling good playing town recently, which is usually a slightly more uncomfortable area for me. I don't want to be an un-participatory part of the team, I want to actually help us win!
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on September 04, 2018, 10:57:25 pm
Galz (https://i.imgur.com/0sG4DHj.png) is (https://i.imgur.com/0sG4DHj.png) putting (https://i.imgur.com/0sG4DHj.png) in (https://i.imgur.com/0sG4DHj.png) the (https://i.imgur.com/0sG4DHj.png) work (https://i.imgur.com/0sG4DHj.png)

I felt bad for intending to do so much on D2, and then essentially falling off entirely. I've been feeling good playing town recently, which is usually a slightly more uncomfortable area for me. I don't want to be an un-participatory part of the team, I want to actually help us win!

And I appreciate it!
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Robz888 on September 04, 2018, 11:29:39 pm
But for real I once again cosign what Galz is saying and am grateful that he's putting in the time and effort to ponder this out.

If the scumteam is DatSwan/Galz I should like buy them an edible arrangement because damn  :P

This is actually my biggest fear!
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Galzria on September 04, 2018, 11:48:13 pm
But for real I once again cosign what Galz is saying and am grateful that he's putting in the time and effort to ponder this out.

If the scumteam is DatSwan/Galz I should like buy them an edible arrangement because damn  :P

This is actually my biggest fear!

My biggest fear is being wrong about DatSwan, lynching e/LL today/tomorrow, and then lynching scum!Swan in 3-2 LyLo, just to be auto-lynched on the final day for "obviously being Swan's partner".  ;D
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: DatSwan on September 05, 2018, 12:49:19 am
man... i just don't get why E! would take this route. I can't come up with like a single helpful reason for Skum!E to claim results on LL or me....

What is the plan there? They have to know it looks skummy af so there would have to be an inherent upside to it down the road right?
He could of claimed results on any of the VTs... even if we lynch them, the next day he could still play the framing card. Not to mention his "assigned target" was Robz...

He just messed up? That is pretty much what I am left with.

To circle back to this, because I think you were having the slight sense of unease that I was having here - in that there hadn't really been presented a good reason "why" thusfar:

I think the play for scum last night was DEFINITELY to frame both of the town-cops. Given that town, at that point, knew that the Traitor was gone, that removed any possibility of getting a town result when investigating within the cops and having it turn out to be scum - that is, there could be no false-positive there. This meant that not only could scum not kill within the cops because they didn't want to PoE themselves into a corner, but an even worse situation would be for a cop to investigate within the claims and come back with a town result. This would IC the resulted cop, and give pretty hefty town points to the investigating cop.

Yes, framing both of the cops left the door open to a potential for a double-town result on two VT players, but I think scum were banking on one or more of the cops realizing that a town result within the cops could now be trusted with the traitor dead. If nothing else, I would've given the likelihood that a cop decided to investigate within the claims at LEAST equal probability that they both decided to cop VT's - and a town-result on a cop was far more dangerous to scum.

So, given that scum most likely double-framed the town cops, they now know for certain that any claimed result against a cop-claim would come back as scum. e! could not safely fake-claim a scum result in the VT's, because there was a chance that you, Datswan, targeted the same VT and would've come back with a town result. And e! definitely didn't want to create an additional IC by claiming a town result on a VT. So the safest play for scum!e here is to claim a result that he knows is "accurate" given that you were framed. This allows him to claim more or less truthfully, without the possibility of creating another IC.

So at this point we are beating a dead horse... I think.
There is one "flaw" in the logic here and it is the very last part - if all three of us were confirmed to come back as skum, why would he claim a result that I have no chance of "verifying".

To spell it out:
LL had claimed Town!MCMC
E! now gets to choose (within cops) between LL and Swan.
Swan (within cops) could of chosen either LL or E!

1) E! claims results on Swan
1a) Swan claims results on E! - ok yeah good defense in advance. He would not wanna be in the position where there is only one result, so he chooses the safe claim inside the cops.
1b) Swan claims results on LL - Now we have results on Swan and LL. Neat, that is a chaotic af situation. We would have to choose between lynching LL (they flip town, and I look skummy af) vs. lynching Swan (I flip town, and now the only result is on LL) vs lynching E! (which would be good in this scenario).

*In my opinion, from my "1-options" 1b is clearly a better play than 1a, and yet E! went with 1a.*

All of that is kind of me just working through it. THE POINT IS...He could of just as safely...

2) E! claims results on LL

2a) Swan claims results on E! - Complete honesty.. in a world where I check E! and get skum and then E! skum results LL... The hair on my neck stands. Just run that through... how skummy does that make me look if I search E!? Like legit I honestly would probably of "IC'd" my top TR by lying or just refused to give results or idk but that puts me in a SHITTY spot. If I were to out my results, obviously it is the same as "1b", except it is LL/E! instead of Swan!E

2b) Swan claims results on LL - There is the potential WIFOM about MCMC "not being an IC" (small chance that gets off, but still it is there). Also, LL claimed on MCMC so he could of used that as the "well that was a convenient target" reason.

TLDR; - Assuming double-frame + Skum!E + E! assumes a cop checked a cop (and LL claimed not a cop check already) + E! fakes the claim on a Cop... The lynch pool of the cops is pretty much the same size no matter what.
He could of faked a result on a VT. There is a risk, but in reality this all plays out to "find the skum!cop" within 2 days. He could of either CCd LL right out the gate which puts it at a 1v1 and keeps the IC card off the table for at least 1 more day. Or he could of picked another town player, where the worst case is again, a 1v1 where I have a different result and we cannot IC that player. Second part is the important part as my target from Awaclus was MCMC, and even without that it is a very high chance of having a unique skum result.
The counter point that would be made is that by picking me it creates 2 skum results within cops. However, if skum put this plan in play they had to of thought that at least 1/2 cops checked within the cops.... so why not create a result within the cops and outside the cops? fuck, he could of even faked a skum result on his skum partner and then if we lynch either of them...

That is a long TLDR but it is the summary of thoughts. I still like E! over LL but I really want both of them to weigh in before we lynch.


Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Joseph2302 on September 05, 2018, 02:33:01 am
I'm about 98% sure that e is scum. The other 2% being on LL.
Intent to hammer
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on September 05, 2018, 03:52:57 am
I'm about 98% sure that e is scum. The other 2% being on LL.
Intent to hammer

So youíre waiting for a claim or somethinh
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: DatSwan on September 05, 2018, 03:56:53 am
 Kay
Vote 2.7


Just lynch LL tomorrow if Iím wrong.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on September 05, 2018, 03:58:55 am
Kay
Vote 2.7


Just lynch LL tomorrow if Iím wrong.

And lose it all
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on September 05, 2018, 03:59:45 am
Kay
Vote 2.7


Just lynch LL tomorrow if Iím wrong.

But if youíre scum, DS, I take my hat off, this was genius play
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 05, 2018, 07:15:19 am
Mount Rainier
(https://images.fineartamerica.com/images-medium-large/mount-rainier-wildflowers-pierre-leclerc.jpg)

Vote count 3.3

2.71828... (5): Dsell, Lalight, Robz888, Galzria, DatSwan

not voting (4): 2.71828..., McMcsalot, Joseph2302, Hydrad

With 9 alive, it took 5 to lynch.

Thread Locked.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 05, 2018, 07:24:01 am
Portland saw to its own demise in the form of zoning laws. By limiting its own expansion outward and refusing to provide those who built outside the city limits with city amenities, Portland assured that it would never gobble up the rest of the beautiful Pacific Northwest, while simultaneously causing its own prices to sky rocket into near un-affordability.

In this way, Portland fell on its own sword so that the towns of the PNW could continue to flourish. 


2.71828... has been lynched. He was Portland, a city framer.  Night Three begins now and ends at Thursday, September 06, 2018, 07:15:00 am. Night actions are due at Thursday, September 06, 2018, 06:15:00 am 
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 05, 2018, 08:43:12 am
2.7's flip corrected ---> traitor to framer. Sorry for the mistake, had to write quickly.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 05, 2018, 11:03:54 am
Okay y'all we are also going to do a 24 hour night phase with a 23 hour action deadline unless I get an objection by QT before the end of the night.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 06, 2018, 07:16:24 am
"Redding? But that's not even in the area!"
"Yeah, but it's close enough, and it's really cool, and did you hear, houses are affordable there!"

It was this conversations like this one caused the phrase "houses are affordable there" to turn into "houses were affordable there." So many people from Seattle and Portland moved down to Redding to 'escape the city' that Redding ended up becoming just like them. 


DatSwan has died in the night. He was Redding, a town cop.

Day 4 starts now!

Vote count 4.0

not voting (7): Lalight, Galzria, McMcsalot, Robz888, Joseph2302, Hydrad, Dsell

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. Day 3 ends, Thursday, September 13, 2018, 07:15:00 am

Thread unlocked!
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on September 06, 2018, 07:19:15 am
now I am an IC. Finally.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on September 06, 2018, 07:19:28 am
I was really scared something goes wrong and you lynch me
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on September 06, 2018, 07:20:23 am
my result - Hydrad is City-Aligned. My check was completely random, but here goes. Let's do vote: Hydrad
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on September 06, 2018, 07:21:39 am
we're in a good position, 2 ICs out of 7 people is good
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Joseph2302 on September 06, 2018, 07:30:35 am
I'm about 98% sure that e is scum. The other 2% being on LL.
Intent to hammer

So youíre waiting for a claim or somethinh
DatSwan said they wanted time to think. Although I just realised they'd already posted
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Joseph2302 on September 06, 2018, 07:44:25 am
my result - Hydrad is City-Aligned. My check was completely random, but here goes. Let's do vote: Hydrad
So either Hydrad is scum or was framed
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Joseph2302 on September 06, 2018, 07:46:38 am
Scum wouldn't have framed either cop or mcmc or themselves, which leaves 4 other targets

So basically there's about a 1 in 4 that Hydrad was framed, 3 in 4 that they're scum
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Joseph2302 on September 06, 2018, 07:47:03 am
 (they referring to Hydrad in above post)
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on September 06, 2018, 07:47:33 am
Scum wouldn't have framed either cop or mcmc or themselves, which leaves 4 other targets

So basically there's about a 1 in 4 that Hydrad was framed, 3 in 4 that they're scum

Exactly
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Joseph2302 on September 06, 2018, 07:48:38 am
Scum wouldn't have framed either cop or mcmc or themselves, which leaves 4 other targets

So basically there's about a 1 in 4 that Hydrad was framed, 3 in 4 that they're scum

Exactly
Was just working the odds before voting for sure.
Vote: Hydrad
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Dsell on September 06, 2018, 10:13:08 am
Nice. I intend to vote/hammer. Idk if we should wait to allow others to weigh in today? Does it matter? ;D
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Robz888 on September 06, 2018, 10:24:13 am
Vote: Hydrad
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: mcmcsalot on September 06, 2018, 10:31:39 am
I think it probably doesnít matter hydrad is our best guess.

Then we lose lalight in the night and are left with:

Me and one scum in robz/dsell/galz/joseph and we will get to lynch two of those 4
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: mcmcsalot on September 06, 2018, 10:32:07 am
Unless we want to give lalight time to read/give thoughts I think we hammer hydrad.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: LaLight on September 06, 2018, 10:33:46 am
Unless we want to give lalight time to read/give thoughts I think we hammer hydrad.

I am not confident in my reads. Joseph is surprisingly extra townie in this game. I still scumread both Galz and Robz. I think I can say Dsell is town with as much assurance as possible...
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Galzria on September 06, 2018, 11:05:25 am
Hammertime?
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Galzria on September 06, 2018, 11:30:28 am
Hammertime?

Hammertime.

vote: Hydrad
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Four!)
Post by: Hydrad on September 06, 2018, 01:02:16 pm
Uh. Lol
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Four!)
Post by: Hydrad on September 06, 2018, 01:02:46 pm
Well even though it is to late I am town. I still think it's robz.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Four!)
Post by: Hydrad on September 06, 2018, 01:04:08 pm
But it's not like I could have stopped me dying even if I was here before hammered. I would have hammered anyone that was city aligned also
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Four!)
Post by: Hydrad on September 06, 2018, 01:04:37 pm
Nice play scum
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Hydrad on September 06, 2018, 01:06:28 pm
Scum wouldn't have framed either cop or mcmc or themselves, which leaves 4 other targets

So basically there's about a 1 in 4 that Hydrad was framed, 3 in 4 that they're scum

Isn't it 1-5? So even better odds to lynch me!
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: mcmcsalot on September 06, 2018, 01:10:43 pm
Scum wouldn't have framed either cop or mcmc or themselves, which leaves 4 other targets

So basically there's about a 1 in 4 that Hydrad was framed, 3 in 4 that they're scum

Isn't it 1-5? So even better odds to lynch me!

I donít usually say this but that could actually be a scumslip. In scum!josephs mind he only had 4 targets to frame (dsell/robz/hydrad/galz). Town should include thenselves in potentially farmable targets.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Four!)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 06, 2018, 01:19:50 pm
Thread locked. Hydrad is VT. Night starts later.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Four!)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 06, 2018, 01:52:13 pm
Hydrad was Klamath Falls,
this really cool vanilla town down south of Crater Lake National Park. Night 4 starts now and ends at September 07, 2018, 05:30:00 pm. Action deadline 1 hour before end of night.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Five!)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 07, 2018, 02:45:56 pm
The locals always told jokes about how the police in Seattle would give any homeless person they could find a free bus ticket to Spokane. That didn't stop the citizens of Spokane from their utter astonishment when three busses pulled up and started unloading all kinds of societal rejects and misfits.

"Seattle couldn't take us anymore," they explained. "It's too full. So they told us we could come here."

Lalight died in the night! He was Spokane, a town cop.

Day 5 starts now!

Vote count 5.0

not voting (5): Galzria, McMcsalot, Robz888, Joseph2302, Dsell

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch. Day 5 ends, Friday, September 14, 2018, 05:30:00 pm.

Mod note: I got sent home early due to rain, so here is an early day start.

Thread unlocked!
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Five!)
Post by: Joseph2302 on September 07, 2018, 03:02:56 pm
Well damn, scum got lucky in framing Hydrad.

So we have mcmc is IC, and scum in {Galzria, McMcsalot, Robz888}

Going to need a serious re-read as that's the only way we can get more information now our cops are gone
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Joseph2302 on September 07, 2018, 03:04:10 pm
Scum wouldn't have framed either cop or mcmc or themselves, which leaves 4 other targets

So basically there's about a 1 in 4 that Hydrad was framed, 3 in 4 that they're scum

Isn't it 1-5? So even better odds to lynch me!
Not that it really matters, but it was 1 in 4.
Scum wouldn't have framed themselves, mcmc or LL, as that would be pointless. So 4 possible targets left
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Five!)
Post by: Dsell on September 07, 2018, 03:20:48 pm
Well damn, scum got lucky in framing Hydrad.

So we have mcmc is IC, and scum in {Galzria, McMcsalot, Robz888}

Going to need a serious re-read as that's the only way we can get more information now our cops are gone

I am alive too. Not scum, but still here.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Five!)
Post by: Joseph2302 on September 07, 2018, 03:33:34 pm
Well damn, scum got lucky in framing Hydrad.

So we have mcmc is IC, and scum in {Galzria, McMcsalot, Robz888}

Going to need a serious re-read as that's the only way we can get more information now our cops are gone

I am alive too. Not scum, but still here.
That's because it meant to read one scum in {Galzria, Dsell, Robz888}
Obviously the IC isn't scum.....
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
Post by: Joseph2302 on September 07, 2018, 03:41:42 pm
For reference, vote counts:

Day 1 final vote count
Lalight (1): Awaclus
gkrieg13 (1): Hydrad
pingpongsam (7): faust, McMcsalot, Joseph2302, Robz888, Lalight, gkrieg13, 2.71828...

not voting (4): Dsell, DatSwan, pingpongsam, Galzria

With 13 alive, it took 7 to lynch.
[/size]
[/quote]

Day 2 Final Vote Count

Galzria (1): gkrieg13
Robz888 (3): Joseph2302, Hydrad, Lalight
gkrieg13 (6): McMcsalot, Robz888, 2.71828..., Dsell, DatSwan, Awaclus

not voting (1): Galzria

Vote count 3.3

2.71828... (5): Dsell, Lalight, Robz888, Galzria, DatSwan

not voting (4): 2.71828..., McMcsalot, Joseph2302, Hydrad

D4 voters: LL, Joseph2302, Robz, Glazria
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Five!)
Post by: Dsell on September 07, 2018, 03:45:28 pm
I definitely think today (in game) will be a day for rereads. During the game thus far I haven't had major suspicions of anyone who's still alive. I have had strong town feelings about some but it's time to throw those notions out and start from scratch.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Five!)
Post by: Joseph2302 on September 07, 2018, 03:46:01 pm
so, of the 5 people left:

mcmc is IC
I was on mislynch D1, not on traitor lynch D2, not on scum lynch D3, on mislynch D4
Galzria was not on mislynch D1, not on traitor lynch D2, on scum lynch D3, on mislynch D4
Dsell was not on mislynch D1, on traitor lynch D2, on scum lynch D3, not on mislynch D4
Robz was on mislynch D1, on traitor lynch D2, on scum lynch D3, on mislynch D4

PPE: 1
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Five!)
Post by: Joseph2302 on September 07, 2018, 03:46:49 pm
That's interesting. Because I'm town, that means scum bussed e on D3
Hardly surprising, but interesting to know
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Five!)
Post by: Galzria on September 07, 2018, 03:47:19 pm
So, this is where I'm at:

D1:
Day 1 final vote count
Lalight (SANE COP)(1): Awaclus (INSANE COP)
gkrieg13 (TRAITOR)(1): Hydrad (VT)
pingpongsam (VT)(7): faust (VT), McMcsalot (VT), Joseph2302 (VT), Robz888 (VT), Lalight (SANE COP), gkrieg13 (TRAITOR), 2.71828... (MAFIA)

not voting (4): Dsell (VT), DatSwan (SANE COP), pingpongsam (VT), Galzria (VT)

With 13 alive, it took 7 to lynch.


----------

Note, so either both scum were on PPS (possible - it was a "free" wagon, in that it wasn't really scummy to be on it), or Dsell is scum.

----------

D2:
Day 2 Final Vote Count

Galzria (1): gkrieg13
Robz888 (3): Joseph2302, Hydrad, Lalight
gkrieg13 (6): McMcsalot, Robz888, 2.71828..., Dsell, DatSwan, Awaclus


not voting (1): Galzria

With 11 alive, it took 6 to lynch.


----------

Now, with this VC, either both scum were on Gkrieg (possible - they didn't know that he was the Traitor), or Joseph is scum. Also, the chances here that Robz, as a town wagon, had all three town on it seems slim - which makes Robz/Joseph a little more scummy.

---------

D3:
Vote count 3.3

2.71828... (5): Dsell, Lalight, Robz888, Galzria, DatSwan


not voting (4): 2.71828..., McMcsalot, Joseph2302, Hydrad

With 9 alive, it took 5 to lynch.


--------------------

With the D3 VC, e  obviously wasn't going to vote for himself - so the question is whether his partner bussed or not. If not, then his partner is Joseph. If his partner did bus, then it's either Dsell - going in at vote #1 looking for some real early town credit, or Robz at #3, getting on when it seemed clear that's where the lynch was gonna be.

----------

So. Points in conclusion:

- On either D1 or D2 (and possibly both), both Mafia were on wagon together.
--- These combinations are: {D1|2.7/Robz}, {D1|2.7/Joseph}, {D2|2.7/Robz}, {D2|2.7/Dsell}
- As it is easier to vote together earlier rather than later (You make up a smaller % of the wagon with co-voting earlier on), this makes Robz/Joseph slightly more likely than Dsell.
- On D3 scum either bused, or they did not. If they did, it is more likely to bus when it seems inevitable than to start the wagon - making Robz more likely than Dsell. The fact that Joseph didn't vote e is also scummy - although he did state intent to. Intent to vote scum without actually doing so is a pretty scummy place to be.

----------

Given all that... plus the post from Gkrieg D1 about Joseph:

"I also want to lynch Joseph real bad, so probably town there too."

And I think I prefer to lynch Joseph today.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Five!)
Post by: mcmcsalot on September 07, 2018, 04:01:32 pm
Wow we all did the vote count thing overnight huh.

Day 1 final vote count
Lalight (1): Awaclus
gkrieg13 (1): Hydrad
pingpongsam (7): faust, McMcsalot, Joseph2302, Robz888, Lalight, gkrieg13, 2.71828...
not voting (4): Dsell, DatSwan, pingpongsam, Galzria

Day 2 Final Vote Count
Galzria (1): gkrieg13
Robz888 (3): Joseph2302, Hydrad, Lalight
gkrieg13 (6): McMcsalot, Robz888, 2.71828..., Dsell, DatSwan, Awaclus
not voting (1): Galzria

Day 3 final vote count
2.71828... (5): Dsell, Lalight, Robz888, Galzria, DatSwan
not voting (4): 2.71828..., McMcsalot, Joseph2302, Hydrad

Day 4 final vote count
Hydrad (4): lalight, Joseph, Robz888, Galzria
not voting (2): mcmcsalot, dsell
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Joseph2302 on September 07, 2018, 04:16:31 pm
Scum wouldn't have framed either cop or mcmc or themselves, which leaves 4 other targets

So basically there's about a 1 in 4 that Hydrad was framed, 3 in 4 that they're scum

Isn't it 1-5? So even better odds to lynch me!

I donít usually say this but that could actually be a scumslip. In scum!josephs mind he only had 4 targets to frame (dsell/robz/hydrad/galz). Town should include thenselves in potentially farmable targets.
No because whoever scum is, they wouldn't frame themselves, or the 2 ICs, leaving 4 possible targets
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
Post by: Joseph2302 on September 07, 2018, 04:17:28 pm
Unless we want to give lalight time to read/give thoughts I think we hammer hydrad.

I am not confident in my reads. Joseph is surprisingly extra townie in this game. I still scumread both Galz and Robz. I think I can say Dsell is town with as much assurance as possible...
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Four!)
Post by: Joseph2302 on September 07, 2018, 04:18:35 pm
Well even though it is to late I am town. I still think it's robz.
2 confirm!town saying it's not me. And both suggesting Robz
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Four!)
Post by: Dsell on September 07, 2018, 04:39:57 pm
Well even though it is to late I am town. I still think it's robz.
2 confirm!town saying it's not me. And both suggesting Robz

Highly against a Robz lynch, or any lynch, until I've gone back to do some reading (and others have had the chance to do the same). Pulling old quotes is fine to defend yourself but don't expect me to join a wagon on the back of 2 quick quotes.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Four!)
Post by: Joseph2302 on September 07, 2018, 04:50:01 pm
Well even though it is to late I am town. I still think it's robz.
2 confirm!town saying it's not me. And both suggesting Robz

Highly against a Robz lynch, or any lynch, until I've gone back to do some reading (and others have had the chance to do the same). Pulling old quotes is fine to defend yourself but don't expect me to join a wagon on the back of 2 quick quotes.
I agree. We have 7 days, and we need to use it to best effect
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Five!)
Post by: Robz888 on September 07, 2018, 05:35:07 pm
Remember, each of us suspects--me, Galz, Dsell, Joseph--have to basically pick the other person we are sure isn't scum, because we get two mislynches. When you reread, it's arguably more important to find the one person above who absolutely, positively can't be scum.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Five!)
Post by: Robz888 on September 07, 2018, 05:37:27 pm
Regarding Day 1, would E hammer, knowing his partner was also on wagon? This seems sort of unlikely. Which means the last scum is Galz or Dsell.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Five!)
Post by: Robz888 on September 07, 2018, 05:38:01 pm
I don't think the Day 2 wagon tells us anything, because as far as scum knew, gkrieg was town.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Five!)
Post by: Robz888 on September 07, 2018, 05:38:54 pm
On Day 3, bussing seems like a good move, which again makes Dsell and Galz likely (and also me, from your perspectives).
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Five!)
Post by: Robz888 on September 07, 2018, 05:39:32 pm
All of these observations have a common theme: Joseph is town. So at this point I'm looking at Galz and Dsell most closely.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Five!)
Post by: Robz888 on September 07, 2018, 05:40:56 pm
Galz also seems most likely to successfully frame hydrad.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Five!)
Post by: Galzria on September 07, 2018, 05:55:15 pm
Regarding Day 1, would E hammer, knowing his partner was also on wagon? This seems sort of unlikely. Which means the last scum is Galz or Dsell.

Not really. There were 5 other people on wagon, and that left 6 off wagon - and the lynch, while dumb, was defensible by people like you pushing it to happen instantly.

I don't think the Day 2 wagon tells us anything, because as far as scum knew, gkrieg was town.

It tells us just as much as the D1 wagon, where as far as scum was concerned, PPS was town. Your choice to just dismiss this day because it's convenient for you is scummy.

On Day 3, bussing seems like a good move, which again makes Dsell and Galz likely (and also me, from your perspectives).

It is, sure - but scum (in general) also have a history of "intending to vote" for their partners, but never actually do - which is where Joseph was at.

Galz also seems most likely to successfully frame hydrad.

This is supported... how? I'm more likely than you, or Dsell, or Joseph because...?

Really, if you're scum I expected this push at me tomorrow, not today.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Five!)
Post by: iguanaiguana on September 07, 2018, 06:30:18 pm
Hey y'all don't use bold teal text. Offenders each get a slap on the wrist.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Five!)
Post by: Galzria on September 07, 2018, 06:33:13 pm
Hey y'all don't use bold teal text. Offenders each get a slap on the wrist.

Sorry - my usage was from quoting you directly, and then removing the quote author part so that the post didn't appear block-y. I'll remove your text color as well as the quote box next time.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Five!)
Post by: Joseph2302 on September 07, 2018, 06:56:46 pm
Hey y'all don't use bold teal text. Offenders each get a slap on the wrist.
Sorry mine was from just copying the vote counts directly too
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Five!)
Post by: Robz888 on September 07, 2018, 07:09:22 pm
Regarding Day 1, would E hammer, knowing his partner was also on wagon? This seems sort of unlikely. Which means the last scum is Galz or Dsell.

Not really. There were 5 other people on wagon, and that left 6 off wagon - and the lynch, while dumb, was defensible by people like you pushing it to happen instantly.

I don't think the Day 2 wagon tells us anything, because as far as scum knew, gkrieg was town.

It tells us just as much as the D1 wagon, where as far as scum was concerned, PPS was town. Your choice to just dismiss this day because it's convenient for you is scummy.

E hammered on Day 1. He sent us to night. He did this knowing he'd take heat. He would have had to choose this, knowing he had a partner on wagon. I don't think mafia would play it like that.

On Day, 2... E doesn't cast a hammer vote, so he doesn't have control of what the final wagon looks like. You say I dismiss it--okay, I'll un-dismiss it, I'm on the wagon and so is E, so again... maybe not something scum does here? You are off both wagons, Dsell and Joseph are both on one and off one, I am on both wagons. So.
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Five!)
Post by: Robz888 on September 07, 2018, 07:10:01 pm
Really, if you're scum I expected this push at me tomorrow, not today.

Right, I'm not scum, I'm legitimately suspicious of you, given the pool has been reduced to three people and you're one of them!
Title: Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Five!)
Post by: mcmcsalot on September 07, 2018, 08:31:23 pm