Dominion Strategy Forum

Dominion => Puzzles and Challenges => Topic started by: silvern on August 07, 2018, 04:10:23 pm

Title: Most money from 5-card hand?
Post by: silvern on August 07, 2018, 04:10:23 pm
Suppose you have a hand comprised of 5 action cards. Your deck and discard are empty, and you have no tokens or stuff on mats, etc. (The board likewise has no tokens on any of the supply piles.) It is a solo game.

Theoretically, what is the highest amount of coin you can achieve from such a hand (in a single turn)?

Off the top of my head I can think of a solution that nets $86--KC-KC-Hero-Hero-Trusty Steed, where Steed is used for coins and draw, and hero is used 5x for platinum and once for fortune.

A less exotic one netting a mere $54 --KC-KC-Beggar-Beggar-Coppersmith

(I assume I'm missing a lot with gainers and villa, etc. See what you can come up with!)
Title: Re: Most money from 5-card hand?
Post by: ThetaSigma12 on August 07, 2018, 04:52:33 pm
I imagine the best result would involve KC-KC-KC-Artisan-Artisan gaining some sweet actions, then almsing a Villa with the pathfinding token and setting up a chain. You could probably go unbounded with this involving a loop too.
Title: Re: Most money from 5-card hand?
Post by: Awaclus on August 07, 2018, 05:50:56 pm
KC/KC/Lurker/Lurker/Overlord is infinite if you also have Pixie in the kingdom.
Title: Re: Most money from 5-card hand?
Post by: majiponi on August 08, 2018, 03:33:00 am
Hand: Procession, Champion, Lurker, Chapel, Diadem
Setup: Play Procession to play Champion twice and Lurker to gain Champion. Repeat this 1 million times.

play Procession to play Champion twice
play Lurker to gain Champion
play Chapel
play Diadem for $5,000,012
Title: Re: Most money from 5-card hand?
Post by: Awaclus on August 08, 2018, 04:49:36 am
Hand: Procession, Champion, Lurker, Chapel, Diadem
Setup: Play Procession to play Champion twice and Lurker to gain Champion. Repeat this 1 million times.

play Procession to play Champion twice
play Lurker to gain Champion
play Chapel
play Diadem for $5,000,012

How do you get Procession and Lurker from play back into your hand?
Title: Re: Most money from 5-card hand?
Post by: silvern on August 08, 2018, 09:04:30 am
Hand: Procession, Champion, Lurker, Chapel, Diadem
Setup: Play Procession to play Champion twice and Lurker to gain Champion. Repeat this 1 million times.

play Procession to play Champion twice
play Lurker to gain Champion
play Chapel
play Diadem for $5,000,012

no treasures!
Title: Re: Most money from 5-card hand?
Post by: majiponi on August 08, 2018, 09:20:41 am
Hand: Procession, Champion, Lurker, Chapel, Diadem
Setup: Play Procession to play Champion twice and Lurker to gain Champion. Repeat this 1 million times.

play Procession to play Champion twice
play Lurker to gain Champion
play Chapel
play Diadem for $5,000,012

no treasures!

Oops! Then, how about introducing Upgrade, King's Court, 2 Tournaments? Trash all but Chapel. This enables you to gain Province and Diadem in a single turn.
Title: Re: Most money from 5-card hand?
Post by: Chris is me on August 08, 2018, 11:44:34 am
Hand: Procession, Champion, Lurker, Chapel, Diadem
Setup: Play Procession to play Champion twice and Lurker to gain Champion. Repeat this 1 million times.

play Procession to play Champion twice
play Lurker to gain Champion
play Chapel
play Diadem for $5,000,012

no treasures!

Oops! Then, how about introducing Upgrade, King's Court, 2 Tournaments? Trash all but Chapel. This enables you to gain Province and Diadem in a single turn.

How do you keep playing the Procession repeatedly? Itís still in play so you canít gain it back with Lurker.
Title: Re: Most money from 5-card hand?
Post by: Awaclus on August 08, 2018, 12:43:51 pm
Hand: Procession, Champion, Lurker, Chapel, Diadem
Setup: Play Procession to play Champion twice and Lurker to gain Champion. Repeat this 1 million times.

play Procession to play Champion twice
play Lurker to gain Champion
play Chapel
play Diadem for $5,000,012

no treasures!

Oops! Then, how about introducing Upgrade, King's Court, 2 Tournaments? Trash all but Chapel. This enables you to gain Province and Diadem in a single turn.

How do you keep playing the Procession repeatedly? Itís still in play so you canít gain it back with Lurker.

And the Lurker is also still in play and the Champion is in your discard pile so you can't play any of those either.
Title: Re: Most money from 5-card hand?
Post by: AJD on August 08, 2018, 08:55:22 pm
Hand: Procession, Champion, Lurker, Chapel, Diadem
Setup: Play Procession to play Champion twice and Lurker to gain Champion. Repeat this 1 million times.

play Procession to play Champion twice
play Lurker to gain Champion
play Chapel
play Diadem for $5,000,012

How do you get Procession and Lurker from play back into your hand?

I believe "setup" here means 'this is what you do on the previous turns'.
Title: Re: Most money from 5-card hand?
Post by: AJD on August 08, 2018, 08:55:52 pm
KC/KC/Lurker/Lurker/Overlord is infinite if you also have Pixie in the kingdom.

How's this?
Title: Re: Most money from 5-card hand?
Post by: Awaclus on August 08, 2018, 09:08:00 pm
KC/KC/Lurker/Lurker/Overlord is infinite if you also have Pixie in the kingdom.

How's this?

It's the empty the supply on turn 1 loop.
Title: Re: Most money from 5-card hand?
Post by: Mic Qsenoch on August 08, 2018, 09:11:46 pm
But it requires KC to cost $5, and the Ferry token can't be on it as per the OP.
Title: Re: Most money from 5-card hand?
Post by: GendoIkari on August 08, 2018, 11:34:29 pm
KC/KC/Lurker/Lurker/Overlord is infinite if you also have Pixie in the kingdom.

How's this?

It's the empty the supply on turn 1 loop.

That doesn't work (as an infinite money), because it doesn't produce infinite money. It empties the supply via gaining almost everything, and having enough Silvers to buy out the rest.
Title: Re: Most money from 5-card hand?
Post by: Awaclus on August 09, 2018, 06:11:37 am
KC/KC/Lurker/Lurker/Overlord is infinite if you also have Pixie in the kingdom.

How's this?

It's the empty the supply on turn 1 loop.

That doesn't work (as an infinite money), because it doesn't produce infinite money. It empties the supply via gaining almost everything, and having enough Silvers to buy out the rest.

It does, you keep trashing Pixie over and over again so you gain money from the Boons that give money. You need to be able to play a couple of Bridges first though.
Title: Re: Most money from 5-card hand?
Post by: GendoIkari on August 09, 2018, 10:04:32 am
KC/KC/Lurker/Lurker/Overlord is infinite if you also have Pixie in the kingdom.

How's this?

It's the empty the supply on turn 1 loop.

That doesn't work (as an infinite money), because it doesn't produce infinite money. It empties the supply via gaining almost everything, and having enough Silvers to buy out the rest.

It does, you keep trashing Pixie over and over again so you gain money from the Boons that give money. You need to be able to play a couple of Bridges first though.

No, the Boons that give money you keep until the end of turn, so you can't receive them more than twice in the same turn.
Title: Re: Most money from 5-card hand?
Post by: Awaclus on August 09, 2018, 12:59:22 pm
KC/KC/Lurker/Lurker/Overlord is infinite if you also have Pixie in the kingdom.

How's this?

It's the empty the supply on turn 1 loop.

That doesn't work (as an infinite money), because it doesn't produce infinite money. It empties the supply via gaining almost everything, and having enough Silvers to buy out the rest.

It does, you keep trashing Pixie over and over again so you gain money from the Boons that give money. You need to be able to play a couple of Bridges first though.

No, the Boons that give money you keep until the end of turn, so you can't receive them more than twice in the same turn.

Well, that's disappointing.
Title: Re: Most money from 5-card hand?
Post by: Chris is me on August 09, 2018, 01:02:03 pm
You can just replace Pixie with Mining Village there to get an infinite / ďarbitrarily largeĒ amount of coin.
Title: Re: Most money from 5-card hand?
Post by: GendoIkari on August 09, 2018, 03:58:56 pm
You can just replace Pixie with Mining Village there to get an infinite / ďarbitrarily largeĒ amount of coin.

Hmm, does this work for the 1-turn supply empty as well? The Pixie solution relies on using Earth and Mountain gifts to gain basically everything; but since it doesn't go infinite with coin, it could fail on an arbitrarily large supply (like if a future expansion just said "all games now have an extra supply pile of cards costing $100). But if you can actually get infinite coins with Mining Village instead; then the solution works on all supplies.
Title: Re: Most money from 5-card hand?
Post by: ghostofmars on August 10, 2018, 04:24:02 am
Does this work?
Hand: 2x King's Court (KC), 2x Overlord (Ov), 1x Bridge (Br)
additionally in the Kingdom: Lurker (Lu), Mining Village (MV)

play KC
... play KC
... ... play Br
... ... play Br
... ... play Br
... play KC
... ... play Ov1 as MV (trash Ov1 +2$)
... ... play Ov1 as Lu (gain Ov1)
... ... play Ov1 as KC
... ... ... play Ov2 as MV (draw Ov1, trash Ov2 +2$)
... ... ... play Ov2 as Lu (gain Ov2)
... ... ... play Ov2 as KC
repeat
Title: Re: Most money from 5-card hand?
Post by: LaLight on August 10, 2018, 04:59:11 am
Does this work?
Hand: 2x King's Court (KC), 2x Overlord (Ov), 1x Bridge (Br)
additionally in the Kingdom: Lurker (Lu), Mining Village (MV)

play KC
... play KC
... ... play Br
... ... play Br
... ... play Br
... play KC
... ... play Ov1 as MV (trash Ov1 +2$)
... ... play Ov1 as Lu (gain Ov1)
... ... play Ov1 as KC
... ... ... play Ov2 as MV (draw Ov1, trash Ov2 +2$)
... ... ... play Ov2 as Lu (gain Ov2)
... ... ... play Ov2 as KC
repeat

This works
Title: Re: Most money from 5-card hand?
Post by: ipofanes on August 10, 2018, 07:41:15 am
Does this work?
Hand: 2x King's Court (KC), 2x Overlord (Ov), 1x Bridge (Br)
additionally in the Kingdom: Lurker (Lu), Mining Village (MV)

play KC
... play KC
... ... play Br
... ... play Br
... ... play Br
... play KC
... ... play Ov1 as MV (trash Ov1 +2$)
... ... play Ov1 as Lu (gain Ov1)
... ... play Ov1 as KC
... ... ... play Ov2 as MV (draw Ov1, trash Ov2 +2$)
... ... ... play Ov2 as Lu (gain Ov2)
... ... ... play Ov2 as KC
repeat

could you iterate one more time so I can see what "repeat" means? At this point, both KC and Overlords are in play; I don't see how they can re-enter the cycle.
Title: Re: Most money from 5-card hand?
Post by: Chris is me on August 10, 2018, 08:18:38 am
Does this work?
Hand: 2x King's Court (KC), 2x Overlord (Ov), 1x Bridge (Br)
additionally in the Kingdom: Lurker (Lu), Mining Village (MV)

play KC
... play KC
... ... play Br
... ... play Br
... ... play Br
... play KC
... ... play Ov1 as MV (trash Ov1 +2$)
... ... play Ov1 as Lu (gain Ov1)
... ... play Ov1 as KC
... ... ... play Ov2 as MV (draw Ov1, trash Ov2 +2$)
... ... ... play Ov2 as Lu (gain Ov2)
... ... ... play Ov2 as KC
repeat

could you iterate one more time so I can see what "repeat" means? At this point, both KC and Overlords are in play; I don't see how they can re-enter the cycle.

Both Overlords trashed themselves, but not the KCís. You need to Ferry KC and play Overlord-as-KC for everything except the first one for this to work I think? With a few extra steps to make it messier.
Title: Re: Most money from 5-card hand?
Post by: Awaclus on August 10, 2018, 08:52:44 am
Does this work?
Hand: 2x King's Court (KC), 2x Overlord (Ov), 1x Bridge (Br)
additionally in the Kingdom: Lurker (Lu), Mining Village (MV)

play KC
... play KC
... ... play Br
... ... play Br
... ... play Br
... play KC
... ... play Ov1 as MV (trash Ov1 +2$)
... ... play Ov1 as Lu (gain Ov1)
... ... play Ov1 as KC
... ... ... play Ov2 as MV (draw Ov1, trash Ov2 +2$)
... ... ... play Ov2 as Lu (gain Ov2)
... ... ... play Ov2 as KC
repeat

could you iterate one more time so I can see what "repeat" means? At this point, both KC and Overlords are in play; I don't see how they can re-enter the cycle.

The Overlords aren't in play (Ov1 is in your hand and Ov2 is the only card in your discard pile) and you don't need the KCs for the loop beyond the first time.

play KC
... play KC
... ... play Br
... ... play Br
... ... play Br
... play KC
... ... play Ov1 as MV (trash Ov1 +2$)
... ... play Ov1 as Lu (gain Ov1)
... ... play Ov1 as KC
... ... ... play Ov2 as MV (draw Ov1, trash Ov2 +2$)
... ... ... play Ov2 as Lu (gain Ov2)
... ... ... play Ov2 as KC
... ... ... ... play Ov1 as MV (draw Ov2, trash Ov1 +2$)
... ... ... ... play Ov1 as Lu (gain Ov1)
... ... ... ... play Ov1 as KC
... ... ... ... ... play Ov2 as MV (draw Ov1, trash Ov2 +2$)
... ... ... ... ... play Ov2 as Lu (gain Ov2)
... ... ... ... ... play Ov2 as KC

Both Overlords trashed themselves, but not the KCís. You need to Ferry KC and play Overlord-as-KC for everything except the first one for this to work I think? With a few extra steps to make it messier.

It already works.
Title: Re: Most money from 5-card hand?
Post by: ipofanes on August 10, 2018, 09:18:12 am
I still fail to see how Ov1 ends in draw pile after "play Ov1 as KC" and before "play Ov2 as MV (draw Ov1, trash Ov2 +2$)". It would seem to me that Ov1 is in play after being played as KC.
Title: Re: Most money from 5-card hand?
Post by: Awaclus on August 10, 2018, 09:50:54 am
I still fail to see how Ov1 ends in draw pile after "play Ov1 as KC" and before "play Ov2 as MV (draw Ov1, trash Ov2 +2$)". It would seem to me that Ov1 is in play after being played as KC.

Ov1 ends in discard pile after "play Ov1 as MV (trash Ov1 +2$)" and "play Ov1 as Lu (gain Ov1)". Playing it as KC doesn't put it back into play from the discard pile.
Title: Re: Most money from 5-card hand?
Post by: mith on August 10, 2018, 05:18:57 pm
You can just replace Pixie with Mining Village there to get an infinite / ďarbitrarily largeĒ amount of coin.

Hmm, does this work for the 1-turn supply empty as well? The Pixie solution relies on using Earth and Mountain gifts to gain basically everything; but since it doesn't go infinite with coin, it could fail on an arbitrarily large supply (like if a future expansion just said "all games now have an extra supply pile of cards costing $100). But if you can actually get infinite coins with Mining Village instead; then the solution works on all supplies.

Yes, Mining Village and Death Cart were used for loops before Pixie was a thing; the original 1-turn solution used Death Cart, in fact, and only relies on Nocturne for the heirlooms (in Black Market) to ramp up fast enough. Pixie as both self-trasher and heirloom-provider is more efficient and ultimately allowed for a two-event-no-black-market solution, though.