Dominion Strategy Forum

Miscellaneous => Forum Games => Mafia Game Threads => Topic started by: iguanaiguana on March 26, 2018, 11:25:28 am

Title: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (Game over - Town wins!)
Post by: iguanaiguana on March 26, 2018, 11:25:28 am
welcome to M115: Okkervil River Mafia

this game will use schadd9++, an invented semi-open setup for 13 players that schadd did one time

mod: Iguana Iguana

tags:

All the little sadies and the literary ladies

1. Robz
2. IDontPlayThisGame
3. McMcsalot
4. e
5. The Wine Merchant Lalight
6. Datswan
7. Spaceanemone
8. Galzria Hydrad
9. Roadrunner Cuzz
10. EFHW
11. O
12. Faust
13. Gkrieg

The Rules:

The Golden Rule:
This is a game. Everyone who signs up to play must be considerate of each other, never get personal, and focus on having fun. Once the game starts, having signed up is a commitment: inactivity is just as inconsiderate as rude comments.

The Standard Rules:
1. No communication between players outside of the game thread or shared QTs at any time. This includes passing references, jokes, or cases in other games or threads, whether in context or not.
2. If the game thread is locked, do not post. If you are unsure if something is locked, ask the mod by PM.
3. Direct or verbatim quoting of mod-provided information is strictly forbidden. Paraphrasing is okay.
4. Actions with instructions that do not specify a game state will be resolved in the order they are received.
5. All night actions must be submitted within 40 hours of day ending.
6. Players must post once every 24 hours.
7. Do not edit or delete posts, ever. If you need to clarify or correct something, post again.
8. Invisible text, font size less than 10, and spoiler tags are not allowed.
9. Cryptography is not allowed.
10. The time between a lynch being reached and a flip being provided is called twilight. All players may continue posting during this time, including the lynched player.
11. Dead players may not post in thread or QT, except their Role QT. A lynched player is not "dead" until a flip has been provided.
12. Personal multimedia, such as video or audio recordings, are not allowed in the game thread.

The Voting Rules:
1. Votes should be in this format: Vote: Playername. Unambigiuous nicknames are acceptable, or any string that uniquely identifies a user. Note that the point of voting is, in fact, unambiguity, and attempting to make it unclear to other players (or, of course, mods) which user you are voting for is very ill-advised.
2. Unvotes should be in this format: unvote or Unvote: Playername.
3. Unvotes are not required if changing your vote from one player to another.
4. You may vote: no lynch.
5. Lynches occur when a simple majority (rounded up) of living players is reached. Once reached, a lynch cannot be undone.
6. If a majority lynch is not reached by the Day's deadline, no lynch occurs.

The Rest:
1. Bold, teal text is reserved for the mod. Players may not use it.
2. If you have an issue or problem with the game, please PM the Mod. Do not post complaints in the game thread.
3. Mods make mistakes - please point them out gently. If they can be corrected, they will. If irreversible, they will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
4. If a mod error disadvantages one faction greatly, the game may be called off.
5. Ask all questions and make all requests directly to the Mod via PM. Questions deemed as "universal" (defined as questions for which the answers should be available to all players) will be requested to be re-posted in the Game Thread and answered there.
6. One prod will be issued after 24 hours without posting in the game thread. Players are subject to replacement or modkill after two prods.
7. All rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity, as determined by the mod.
8. Each player will receive their own QT, regardless of role. Don't quote from it.
9. If the game goes on for 3 days and 3 nights without a lynch or nightkill, town wins.


Deadlines:
7-day Days, 2-day Nights
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia
Post by: iguanaiguana on March 26, 2018, 11:25:34 am
There is a mix of caps and no-caps because I edited the flavor but not the content of schadd's setup.

schadd9++ is a setup that in the style of other setups that say "9++" at the end such as asher9++, faust9++, C9++, etc.

The players consist of 3 mafia, 9-10 town and 0-1 serial killers.

With some exceptions, each game will include Will Sheff, a named tracker.

The distribution of other power roles is determined by a set of 6 random numbers; 5 from 1-10 and 1 from 5-10, with different amounts of each number resulting in different types and amounts of power roles.

1-4: T, Townie
5: W, Wildcard
6: S, Castle
7: L, River
8: G, Valley
9: O, Ship
10: P, Austin

Once the set of 6 letters is produced, I'll add power roles to the setup based on the below list, which maps certain amounts of each letter to certain sets of PRs.

See the end of the post for role PMs for each role.

Austin


This wish just to go back, hey
When I know wasn't ever, ever happy
Show me my best memory, it's probably super crappy.
Nine years down in Texas
With sluts of both sexes
Liars, lumps, and drug addicts, and drunks; I love my friends
But I can't stop without going all the way
And I've been that way since '83.
 (https://youtu.be/56T0DeDL0rw?t=66)


P: 1-shot bulletproofer
PP: 1-shot bulletproofer, Drunk
PPP: 1-shot bulletproofer, Drunk, Drunk
PPPP: 1-shot bulletproofer, 1-shot bulletproofer, Drunk
PPPPP: 1-shot bulletproofer, 1-shot bulletproofer, Drunk, Drunk
PPPPPP: 1-shot bulletproofer, 1-shot bulletproofer, 1-shot bulletproofer, Drunk

The Ship


We packed up all of our bags
The ship's deck now sags from the weight of our tracks
As we pace beneath flags black and battered
Rattling our swords in service of some faded foreign lord

We sail out on orders from him but we find
The maps he sent to us don't mention lost coastlines
Where nothing we've actually seen has been mapped or outlined
And we don't recognize the names upon these signs

And every night finds us rocking and rolling on waves wild and wide
Well, we have lost our way, but nobody's going to say it outright

 (https://youtu.be/4PjNnCRA6Ts?t=111)

O: Tracker (not named)
OO: Tracker, Drunk
OOO: Tracker, Drunk, Townrole Cop
OOOO: Tracker, Tracker, Townrole Cop
OOOOO: Tracker, Tracker, Townrole Cop, Drunk
OOOOOO: Tracker, Tracker, Townrole Cop, Drunk, Townrole Cop OR Tracker (coinflip chooses between TRC or tracker)

The Valley


Watch the sun switching in the sky, off and on
Where our friend stands bleeding on the late summer lawn
A slicked back bloody black gunshot to the head
He has fallen in the valley of the rock and roll dead (https://youtu.be/vCAAceeWA_Q)


G: Vengeful
GG: Dayvig
GGG: Vengeful, Dayvig
GGGG: Dayvig, Dayvig
GGGGG: Vengeful, Dayvig, Dayvig
GGGGGG: Dayvig, Dayvig, Dayvig

The River


Down by Okkervil River's cigarettes and rusty tires
We made ourselves an altar, we lit our nightly fires
And the smoke lay thick and smothered all the skunk cabbage and vines
Where Gods were born and Gods lay down to die
 (https://youtu.be/o57KlOsSMrc?t=57)


L: Universal Backup
LL: UB, Tracker
LLL: UB, Inventor
LLLL: UB, Inventor, Drunk
LLLLL: Inventor, Inventor, Drunk
LLLLLL: Inventor, Inventor, Drunk, UB

The Castle


And I think I believe that if stones could dream
They'd dream of being laid side-by-side, piece-by-piece
And turned into a castle for some towering queen
They're unable to know.
 (https://youtu.be/zEWnVLHRMBo?t=267)


0S: a random townie is Hidden Ascetic
S: 1-shot Bulletproof 1-shot ninja Serial Killer
SS: same SK, one letter is added to W
SSS: Will Sheff becomes a 1-shot Bulletproof Jailkeeper instead of a Tracker
SSSS: same Will Sheff modification, Anarchic Cop
SSSSS: same Will Sheff modification, Anarchic Cop, one letter is added to W
SSSSSS: same Will Sheff modification, Anarchic Cop with two shots, one letter is added to W

Wildcard


What gives this mess some grace
Unless it's kicks, man
Unless it's fiction
Unless it's sweat or it's songs.
 (https://youtu.be/gN7FyzHM9Xo)


borrowing from faust9++ (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.ph...56702), wildcard is a separate roll that simulates a roll of another random category (not including the castle). for example, a roll of OOWWTT where W is chosen to simulate O would result in two Trackers and two Drunks, whereas OOOOTT would result in 2 Trackers and a Townrole Cop.

Mafia


I thought that it was us against the world
But now it's me against something so big and abstract
That I can't tell what it is (https://youtu.be/joC7htWpM2I)


the mafia receive power roles in inverse to the amount of T rolls, and thus in proportion to the town's power roles.

TTTTT: Goon, Goon, Goon,
TTTT: Goon, 1-shot Roleblocker, 1-shot Rolestopper,
TTT: Tracker OR Townrole Cop, 1-shot Roleblocker, 1-shot Rolestopper,
TT: Tracker OR Townrole Cop, 1-shot Roleblocker, 1-shot Rolestopper, one randomly chosen mafia is hidden Commuter
T: Tracker OR Townrole Cop, Roleblocker and Rolestopper with 5 communal shots, hidden Commuter
0T: Tracker OR Townrole Cop, Roleblocker and Rolestopper with 5 communal shots, hidden Commuter, Daytalk for Day 3 only

Role PMs:
Quote
you are a vanilla townie. you have no powers other than a vote

you win when all threats to the town are eliminated.
Quote
you are Will Sheff, the town's named tracker. each night, you may target someone to learn who, if anyone, they visit.

you win when all threats to the town are eliminated.
Quote
you are Will Sheff, the town's 1-shot bulletproof jailkeeper. each night, you may target someone to simultaneously prevent their night actions from working and protect them from one killing action. you will also automatically survive one killing action during the game.

you win when all threats to the town are eliminated.
Quote
you are a town drunk. each night, you may target someone to be targeted by all actions targeting that person. if your target was visited by any other player, you will receive a note saying "i had a great time last night ;)"

you win when all threats to the town are eliminated.
Quote
you are a town 1-shot bulletproofer. once, at night, you can target someone to protect them from the next successful kill they are targeted by, if any.

you win when all threats to the town are eliminated.
Quote
you are a town tracker. each night, you may target someone to learn who, if anyone, they visit.

you win when all threats to the town are eliminated.
Quote
you are a town townrole cop. each night, you may target someone to learn whether they are a town power role and, if so, what kind.

you win when all threats to the town are eliminated.
Quote
you are a vengeful townie. if you are ever lynched, you will have a 24-hour twilight to choose someone to kill.

you win when all threats to the town are eliminated.
Quote
you are a town dayvig. once, during the day, you may post shoot: (player name) in the game thread to kill them; unless the kill is blocked, they will flip, everyone automatically unvotes and 48 hours are added to the Day's deadline. you may not do this after a lynch is achieved.

you win when all threats to the town are eliminated.
Quote
you are a town universal backup. the first time a town non-VT non-vengeful role dies, you will inherit their (remaining) abilities and become informed whom, if anybody, they targeted and what results they received. if multiple such roles die in one night, you will inherit whichever has its role PM listed first in the role PMs post.

you win when all threats to the town are eliminated.
Quote
you are a town inventor. you have three inventions: a doctor, a tracker, and a townrole cop. each night, you may choose one of your inventions to send to a target if you have any remaining. if the action succeeds, they will be able to use that ability for one night in addition to any other abilities they may have.
they will be informed that they received the invention the morning after you send it, but not the identity of the sender.

you win when all threats to the town are eliminated.
Quote
you are a mafia goon. each night, you may talk to your partners in [qt] and one of you may use the factional kill.

you win when all non-mafia roles are dead or when nothing can stop that from happening.
Quote
you are a mafia 1-shot roleblocker. each night, you may talk to your partners in [qt] and one of you may use the factional kill. additionally, once, at night, you may target a player to prevent any of their roles from working.

you win when all non-mafia roles are dead or when nothing can stop that from happening.
Quote
you are a mafia 1-shot rolestopper. each night, you may talk to your partners in [qt] and one of you may use the factional kill. additionally, once, at night, you may target a player to prevent actions targeting that player from succeeding.

you win when all non-mafia roles are dead or when nothing can stop that from happening.
Quote
you are a mafia tracker. each night, you may talk to your partners in [qt] and one of you may use the factional kill. additionally, each night, you may target a player to learn who, if anybody, they visit.

you win when all non-mafia roles are dead or when nothing can stop that from happening.
Quote
you are a mafia townrole cop. each night, you may talk to your partners in [qt] and one of you may use the factional kill. additionally, each night, you may target a player to learn whether they are a town power role, and, if so, what kind.

you win when all non-mafia roles are dead or when nothing can stop that from happening.
Quote
you are a mafia communal rolestopper. each night, you may talk to your partners in [qt] and one of you may use the factional kill. additionally, at night, you may target a player to prevent actions targeting that player from succeeding. between you and your roleblocker partner, you may use 5 actions.

you win when all non-mafia roles are dead or when nothing can stop that from happening.
Quote
you are a mafia communal roleblocker. each night, you may talk to your partners in [qt] and one of you may use the factional kill. additionally, at night, you may target a player to prevent any of their roles from working. between you and your rolestopper partner, you may use 5 actions.

you win when all non-mafia roles are dead or when nothing can stop that from happening.
Quote
you are a 1-shot bulletproof, 1-shot serial killer. each night, you may kill one player; once per game, you may choose to render this kill unnoticeable to trackers. you will also automatically survive one killing action during the game.

you win when all other players are dead or when only one townsperson, one mafia, and yourself are alive.


clarifications:
general:
-an action that fails in any way will still use a shot wherever that's relevant

drunks:
-drunks are incapable of being roleblocked, due to all the friendly people helping you out in the Austin scene. if a drunk or a drunk's target is blocked, nothing happens; if a drunk or a drunk's target is jailed, the drunk is protected from one kill. rolestoppers still work, because they're different
-drunks can cause duplicate inventions to be given.
-all investigative results are given as "{player} was {result}," thus an investigative with a drunk targeting their target would get multiple results and be able to determine who was the drunk.

Austin:
-targets of the 1-shot bulletproofer are not notified that they were targeted by that thing
-if someone is targeted by multiple instances of bulletproofing, they will be able to survive that many kills. Will Sheff with the Castle's modification will also stack in that way.

Valley:
-both vengeful and dayvig are affected by commuting and bulletproof

River:
-universal backup's inheriting ability is not affected by roleblockers
-universal backups ignore inventions that have been given to people, but not power roles that do not have any shots left
-in the event of multiple universal backups, both of them can inherit the same thing and ignore each other
-the usage of an invention does not impede the use of any other action
-receivers of inventions also receive essentially role PMs for what their inventions do

Castle
-hidden ascetic doesn't flip
-anarchic cop is an ability usable by any player during the day that is activated by saying "howdy ho mary belle" in the game thread and results in the moderator publicly announcing the alignment of the person who posted it. if a non-town uses this ability, the shot isn't used up. in the SSSSSS scenario, there are two shots to the anarchic cop, which becomes clear after the first one is used.

Mafia
-any form of roleblocker or rolestopper will flip as "roleblocker" or "rolestopper"; communal roleblockers/stoppers look the same as 1-shot ones
-hidden commuter doesn't flip
-scum don't know they have day 3 talk until day 3, when i will say "hey guys the thread is still unlocked....... wanna keep saying stuff..............?"
-scum can action and kill on the same night
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia
Post by: iguanaiguana on March 26, 2018, 11:25:40 am
Flavor will be handled similarly to Sufjan Stevens Mafia.

One town role flavor name was created for each town power role that exists in the game beyond Will Sheff plus each scum role that exists in the game, then each town role flavor name was assigned as either a role name to a town power role or as a fakeclaim for a scum role.

VTs will not be given flavor names, but will be given lyrics relevant to the person/situation at the time of their flip.

Any scum player can also request a flavor name at any time for any role that is possible in the setup and the mod will provide a safe flavor name for that role.

The purpose of this method is to make flavor irrelevant to gameplay.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia
Post by: Robz888 on March 26, 2018, 12:25:35 pm
/in
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on March 26, 2018, 12:56:44 pm
/in
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia
Post by: mcmcsalot on March 26, 2018, 01:55:30 pm
/in
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia
Post by: skip wooznum on March 26, 2018, 04:54:05 pm
Shouldnít it be 1-shot 1-shot bulletproofer?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia
Post by: iguanaiguana on March 26, 2018, 05:54:33 pm
Shouldnít it be 1-shot 1-shot bulletproofer?

It is the thing that schadd called it when he ran the setup and it does the thing that the role pm says it does.

But yes, they can grant 1 shot of 1 shot bulletproof to someone else.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia
Post by: 2.71828..... on March 26, 2018, 06:40:47 pm
/in
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia
Post by: schadd on March 26, 2018, 07:58:47 pm
i can co moderate
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia
Post by: schadd on March 26, 2018, 08:05:54 pm
MODORATE
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on March 26, 2018, 08:26:01 pm
Aga/in
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia
Post by: iguanaiguana on March 26, 2018, 08:27:59 pm
i can co moderate

Sure but I'm pretty sure I can handle it if you want to play your setup.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia
Post by: schadd on March 26, 2018, 08:45:11 pm
u don't get high off ur own supply
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia
Post by: Swowl on March 27, 2018, 03:10:33 am
/in sicle
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia
Post by: SpaceAnemone on March 27, 2018, 11:31:53 am
Cool, I like n(/in)e++ setups! :-)
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia
Post by: iguanaiguana on March 27, 2018, 01:23:04 pm
u don't get high off ur own supply

You float up high and it isn't a sin
And there isn't a hell where we'll be sent
There's only now, and there isn't then. So just breathe it in
(https://youtu.be/Er4he7hIJF0?t=146)

We'll be sent to the mod QT to, uh, ponder Will Sheff's complicated relationship with drugs.

schadd is co-mod!
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia
Post by: Galzria on March 27, 2018, 06:04:36 pm
Oh Hell.

When do I have time for this?

/in
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia
Post by: Roadrunner7671 on March 27, 2018, 07:56:56 pm
/in
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (4 spots left!)
Post by: EFHW on March 30, 2018, 06:23:59 pm
/in
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (3 spots left!)
Post by: O on March 30, 2018, 10:52:52 pm
/in
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (3 spots left!)
Post by: faust on March 31, 2018, 04:10:08 am
/in
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (3 spots left!)
Post by: iguanaiguana on March 31, 2018, 09:09:18 am
Nice. Just need a hammer. Setup is rolled and ready to go!
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (Hammer me!)
Post by: gkrieg13 on March 31, 2018, 11:23:26 am
/in
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (Hammer me!)
Post by: Cuzz on March 31, 2018, 11:24:10 am
fiiiiiiiiiiiiii(/in)e

Ppe: haha sniped for final spot. Probably for the best.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (Full! PMs coming soon)
Post by: iguanaiguana on March 31, 2018, 11:57:43 am
Wife and I are going to the fish store. Role PMs when we get back!

Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (Full! PMs coming soon)
Post by: iguanaiguana on March 31, 2018, 02:18:28 pm
PMs going out now. N0 begins once everyone confirms and ends ~24 hours after everyone confirms.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (PMs out - waiting for confirms)
Post by: iguanaiguana on April 01, 2018, 09:03:31 am
Waiting for one more confirm.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (N0 - Down the River of Golden Dreams...)
Post by: iguanaiguana on April 02, 2018, 08:33:58 am

That same one?
Down the River of Golden Dreams. You can put that together with your river music
That's an oldie
Yeah
(https://youtu.be/_KrfELg83uI)
N0 Begins now and ends tonight at ~9:00PM forum time. Thread locked except for tags.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 down the deep river)
Post by: iguanaiguana on April 02, 2018, 09:04:38 pm

Spit into the center of your home town
There's leaves in the street and there are friends around you now
All the days of your life in a line
All the way that it seemed by '89
 (https://youtu.be/d0iSoyw_btI?t=10)

Day 1 Starts now!

Vote count 1.0

not voting (13): Robz888, IDontPlayThisGame, McMcsalot, 2.71828..., The_Wine_Merchant, Datswan, SpaceAnemone, Galzria, Roadrunner7671, EFHW, O, Faust, Gkrieg13

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends Monday, April 9 at 9pm forum time.


mod notes

Thread unlocked!
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Robz888 on April 02, 2018, 09:07:04 pm
You all better hope I'm the Serial Killer, because I'm a lean, mean mafia shooting machine. Vote: Galz for hammering me last game!
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Robz888 on April 02, 2018, 09:07:45 pm
Also, I'm playing for my next scum game, which means I have to do a good job as town here so it's not suspicious when I try hard in my next scum game. So.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on April 02, 2018, 09:23:30 pm
vote: Robz

I'm practicing for his scum game too.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: O on April 02, 2018, 09:45:31 pm
Also, I'm playing for my next scum game, which means I have to do a good job as town here so it's not suspicious when I try hard in my next scum game. So.

I'm playing for my next scum game, which means I have to make incredibly scummy maneuvers and claim it was all a misunderstanding.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: EFHW on April 02, 2018, 09:58:37 pm
Also, I'm playing for my next scum game, which means I have to do a good job as town here so it's not suspicious when I try hard in my next scum game. So.

I'm playing for my next scum game, which means I have to make incredibly scummy maneuvers and claim it was all a misunderstanding.
I think you burned that bridge.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: O on April 02, 2018, 10:11:16 pm
Also, I'm playing for my next scum game, which means I have to do a good job as town here so it's not suspicious when I try hard in my next scum game. So.

I'm playing for my next scum game, which means I have to make incredibly scummy maneuvers and claim it was all a misunderstanding.
I think you burned that bridge.

nah i just have to lose 2-3 games for my town-teammates before i get my reputation back
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 02, 2018, 10:16:19 pm
Robz being Mr. Funny Man and joking about being scum is super scummy

Vote: Robz
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 02, 2018, 10:18:28 pm
Super scummy for Robz at least. I just remember Robz as the one who says all jokes are scummy. But then, I am basing that off like a 3 or 4 year old before-Robz-was-married meta.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 02, 2018, 10:22:15 pm
Also, should i read the setup or is knowing that it is a ++ style and we can't solve it good enough?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 02, 2018, 10:38:33 pm
Way Too Early Reads List:

1. Robz - scum. This is actually a read.
2. IDontPlayThisGame - town. If he is in fact playing this game
3. McMcsalot - town. Won't be on the same team as his brother
4. e - town.
5. The Wine Merchant - strong town read. He will basically have to claim scum and the rest of you lynch him. I am convinced he is town.
6. Datswan - town. Because I don't know Datswan as well as others
7. Spaceanemone - town. Playing the odds on this one. We only have 3 scum
8. Galzria - SK. Someone has to be. (I guess not technically. Ok, I read the setup)
9. Roadrunner - town. Dude is always town and no one gives him any credit for it.
10. EFHW - scum. EFHW is a tricky one to place. And I place her as scum
11. O - town. O joking about being scum is townie, Robz doing it is scummy. Perfectly clear logic
12. Faust - town. I hope.
13. Gkrieg - scum. Because I got to the bottom of the list and realized I needed another scum

Hmmmm. Robz/EFHW/Gkrieg scum team with Galzria SK. We have our work cut out for us, town. Or we just lynch the scum.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 02, 2018, 11:11:36 pm
5. The Wine Merchant - strong town read. He will basically have to claim scum and the rest of you lynch him. I am convinced he is town.
Genius!
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 02, 2018, 11:13:07 pm
Robz is married? Changes everything.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 02, 2018, 11:14:12 pm
Also dama except i am going to bed so all answers will b giv n sober
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 02, 2018, 11:14:33 pm
Fick aitocorrect
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 02, 2018, 11:14:53 pm
Amirifht?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 02, 2018, 11:15:59 pm
Are you claiming drunk?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 02, 2018, 11:16:13 pm
There is a mix of caps and no-caps because I edited the flavor but not the content of schadd's setup.

schadd9++ is a setup that in the style of other setups that say "9++" at the end such as asher9++, faust9++, C9++, etc.

The players consist of 3 mafia, 9-10 town and 0-1 serial killers.

With some exceptions, each game will include Will Sheff, a named tracker.

The distribution of other power roles is determined by a set of 6 random numbers; 5 from 1-10 and 1 from 5-10, with different amounts of each number resulting in different types and amounts of power roles.

1-4: T, Townie
5: W, Wildcard
6: S, Castle
7: L, River
8: G, Valley
9: O, Ship
10: P, Austin

Once the set of 6 letters is produced, I'll add power roles to the setup based on the below list, which maps certain amounts of each letter to certain sets of PRs.

See the end of the post for role PMs for each role.

Austin


This wish just to go back, hey
When I know wasn't ever, ever happy
Show me my best memory, it's probably super crappy.
Nine years down in Texas
With sluts of both sexes
Liars, lumps, and drug addicts, and drunks; I love my friends
But I can't stop without going all the way
And I've been that way since '83.
 (https://youtu.be/56T0DeDL0rw?t=66)


P: 1-shot bulletproofer
PP: 1-shot bulletproofer, Drunk
PPP: 1-shot bulletproofer, Drunk, Drunk
PPPP: 1-shot bulletproofer, 1-shot bulletproofer, Drunk
PPPPP: 1-shot bulletproofer, 1-shot bulletproofer, Drunk, Drunk
PPPPPP: 1-shot bulletproofer, 1-shot bulletproofer, 1-shot bulletproofer, Drunk

The Ship


We packed up all of our bags
The ship's deck now sags from the weight of our tracks
As we pace beneath flags black and battered
Rattling our swords in service of some faded foreign lord

We sail out on orders from him but we find
The maps he sent to us don't mention lost coastlines
Where nothing we've actually seen has been mapped or outlined
And we don't recognize the names upon these signs

And every night finds us rocking and rolling on waves wild and wide
Well, we have lost our way, but nobody's going to say it outright

 (https://youtu.be/4PjNnCRA6Ts?t=111)

O: Tracker (not named)
OO: Tracker, Drunk
OOO: Tracker, Drunk, Townrole Cop
OOOO: Tracker, Tracker, Townrole Cop
OOOOO: Tracker, Tracker, Townrole Cop, Drunk
OOOOOO: Tracker, Tracker, Townrole Cop, Drunk, Townrole Cop OR Tracker (coinflip chooses between TRC or tracker)

The Valley


Watch the sun switching in the sky, off and on
Where our friend stands bleeding on the late summer lawn
A slicked back bloody black gunshot to the head
He has fallen in the valley of the rock and roll dead (https://youtu.be/vCAAceeWA_Q)


G: Vengeful
GG: Dayvig
GGG: Vengeful, Dayvig
GGGG: Dayvig, Dayvig
GGGGG: Vengeful, Dayvig, Dayvig
GGGGGG: Dayvig, Dayvig, Dayvig

The River


Down by Okkervil River's cigarettes and rusty tires
We made ourselves an altar, we lit our nightly fires
And the smoke lay thick and smothered all the skunk cabbage and vines
Where Gods were born and Gods lay down to die
 (https://youtu.be/o57KlOsSMrc?t=57)


L: Universal Backup
LL: UB, Tracker
LLL: UB, Inventor
LLLL: UB, Inventor, Drunk
LLLLL: Inventor, Inventor, Drunk
LLLLLL: Inventor, Inventor, Drunk, UB

The Castle


And I think I believe that if stones could dream
They'd dream of being laid side-by-side, piece-by-piece
And turned into a castle for some towering queen
They're unable to know.
 (https://youtu.be/zEWnVLHRMBo?t=267)


0S: a random townie is Hidden Ascetic
S: 1-shot Bulletproof 1-shot ninja Serial Killer
SS: same SK, one letter is added to W
SSS: Will Sheff becomes a 1-shot Bulletproof Jailkeeper instead of a Tracker
SSSS: same Will Sheff modification, Anarchic Cop
SSSSS: same Will Sheff modification, Anarchic Cop, one letter is added to W
SSSSSS: same Will Sheff modification, Anarchic Cop with two shots, one letter is added to W

Wildcard


What gives this mess some grace
Unless it's kicks, man
Unless it's fiction
Unless it's sweat or it's songs.
 (https://youtu.be/gN7FyzHM9Xo)


borrowing from faust9++ (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.ph...56702), wildcard is a separate roll that simulates a roll of another random category (not including the castle). for example, a roll of OOWWTT where W is chosen to simulate O would result in two Trackers and two Drunks, whereas OOOOTT would result in 2 Trackers and a Townrole Cop.

Mafia


I thought that it was us against the world
But now it's me against something so big and abstract
That I can't tell what it is (https://youtu.be/joC7htWpM2I)


the mafia receive power roles in inverse to the amount of T rolls, and thus in proportion to the town's power roles.

TTTTT: Goon, Goon, Goon,
TTTT: Goon, 1-shot Roleblocker, 1-shot Rolestopper,
TTT: Tracker OR Townrole Cop, 1-shot Roleblocker, 1-shot Rolestopper,
TT: Tracker OR Townrole Cop, 1-shot Roleblocker, 1-shot Rolestopper, one randomly chosen mafia is hidden Commuter
T: Tracker OR Townrole Cop, Roleblocker and Rolestopper with 5 communal shots, hidden Commuter
0T: Tracker OR Townrole Cop, Roleblocker and Rolestopper with 5 communal shots, hidden Commuter, Daytalk for Day 3 only

Role PMs:
Quote
you are a vanilla townie. you have no powers other than a vote

you win when all threats to the town are eliminated.
Quote
you are Will Sheff, the town's named tracker. each night, you may target someone to learn who, if anyone, they visit.

you win when all threats to the town are eliminated.
Quote
you are Will Sheff, the town's 1-shot bulletproof jailkeeper. each night, you may target someone to simultaneously prevent their night actions from working and protect them from one killing action. you will also automatically survive one killing action during the game.

you win when all threats to the town are eliminated.
Quote
you are a town drunk. each night, you may target someone to be targeted by all actions targeting that person. if your target was visited by any other player, you will receive a note saying "i had a great time last night ;)"

you win when all threats to the town are eliminated.
Quote
you are a town 1-shot bulletproofer. once, at night, you can target someone to protect them from the next successful kill they are targeted by, if any.

you win when all threats to the town are eliminated.
Quote
you are a town tracker. each night, you may target someone to learn who, if anyone, they visit.

you win when all threats to the town are eliminated.
Quote
you are a town townrole cop. each night, you may target someone to learn whether they are a town power role and, if so, what kind.

you win when all threats to the town are eliminated.
Quote
you are a vengeful townie. if you are ever lynched, you will have a 24-hour twilight to choose someone to kill.

you win when all threats to the town are eliminated.
Quote
you are a town dayvig. once, during the day, you may post shoot: (player name) in the game thread to kill them; unless the kill is blocked, they will flip, everyone automatically unvotes and 48 hours are added to the Day's deadline. you may not do this after a lynch is achieved.

you win when all threats to the town are eliminated.
Quote
you are a town universal backup. the first time a town non-VT non-vengeful role dies, you will inherit their (remaining) abilities and become informed whom, if anybody, they targeted and what results they received. if multiple such roles die in one night, you will inherit whichever has its role PM listed first in the role PMs post.

you win when all threats to the town are eliminated.
Quote
you are a town inventor. you have three inventions: a doctor, a tracker, and a townrole cop. each night, you may choose one of your inventions to send to a target if you have any remaining. if the action succeeds, they will be able to use that ability for one night in addition to any other abilities they may have.
they will be informed that they received the invention the morning after you send it, but not the identity of the sender.

you win when all threats to the town are eliminated.
Quote
you are a mafia goon. each night, you may talk to your partners in [qt] and one of you may use the factional kill.

you win when all non-mafia roles are dead or when nothing can stop that from happening.
Quote
you are a mafia 1-shot roleblocker. each night, you may talk to your partners in [qt] and one of you may use the factional kill. additionally, once, at night, you may target a player to prevent any of their roles from working.

you win when all non-mafia roles are dead or when nothing can stop that from happening.
Quote
you are a mafia 1-shot rolestopper. each night, you may talk to your partners in [qt] and one of you may use the factional kill. additionally, once, at night, you may target a player to prevent actions targeting that player from succeeding.

you win when all non-mafia roles are dead or when nothing can stop that from happening.
Quote
you are a mafia tracker. each night, you may talk to your partners in [qt] and one of you may use the factional kill. additionally, each night, you may target a player to learn who, if anybody, they visit.

you win when all non-mafia roles are dead or when nothing can stop that from happening.
Quote
you are a mafia townrole cop. each night, you may talk to your partners in [qt] and one of you may use the factional kill. additionally, each night, you may target a player to learn whether they are a town power role, and, if so, what kind.

you win when all non-mafia roles are dead or when nothing can stop that from happening.
Quote
you are a mafia communal rolestopper. each night, you may talk to your partners in [qt] and one of you may use the factional kill. additionally, at night, you may target a player to prevent actions targeting that player from succeeding. between you and your roleblocker partner, you may use 5 actions.

you win when all non-mafia roles are dead or when nothing can stop that from happening.
Quote
you are a mafia communal roleblocker. each night, you may talk to your partners in [qt] and one of you may use the factional kill. additionally, at night, you may target a player to prevent any of their roles from working. between you and your rolestopper partner, you may use 5 actions.

you win when all non-mafia roles are dead or when nothing can stop that from happening.
Quote
you are a 1-shot bulletproof, 1-shot serial killer. each night, you may kill one player; once per game, you may choose to render this kill unnoticeable to trackers. you will also automatically survive one killing action during the game.

you win when all other players are dead or when only one townsperson, one mafia, and yourself are alive.


clarifications:
general:
-an action that fails in any way will still use a shot wherever that's relevant

drunks:
-drunks are incapable of being roleblocked, due to all the friendly people helping you out in the Austin scene. if a drunk or a drunk's target is blocked, nothing happens; if a drunk or a drunk's target is jailed, the drunk is protected from one kill. rolestoppers still work, because they're different
-drunks can cause duplicate inventions to be given.
-all investigative results are given as "{player} was {result}," thus an investigative with a drunk targeting their target would get multiple results and be able to determine who was the drunk.

Austin:
-targets of the 1-shot bulletproofer are not notified that they were targeted by that thing
-if someone is targeted by multiple instances of bulletproofing, they will be able to survive that many kills. Will Sheff with the Castle's modification will also stack in that way.

Valley:
-both vengeful and dayvig are affected by commuting and bulletproof

River:
-universal backup's inheriting ability is not affected by roleblockers
-universal backups ignore inventions that have been given to people, but not power roles that do not have any shots left
-in the event of multiple universal backups, both of them can inherit the same thing and ignore each other
-the usage of an invention does not impede the use of any other action
-receivers of inventions also receive essentially role PMs for what their inventions do

Castle
-hidden ascetic doesn't flip
-anarchic cop is an ability usable by any player during the day that is activated by saying "howdy ho mary belle" in the game thread and results in the moderator publicly announcing the alignment of the person who posted it. if a non-town uses this ability, the shot isn't used up. in the SSSSSS scenario, there are two shots to the anarchic cop, which becomes clear after the first one is used.

Mafia
-any form of roleblocker or rolestopper will flip as "roleblocker" or "rolestopper"; communal roleblockers/stoppers look the same as 1-shot ones
-hidden commuter doesn't flip
-scum don't know they have day 3 talk until day 3, when i will say "hey guys the thread is still unlocked....... wanna keep saying stuff..............?"
-scum can action and kill on the same night
This post is sooooooooooopoo long!
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 02, 2018, 11:19:06 pm
Short posts are better.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 03, 2018, 12:05:39 am
Are you claiming drunk?

I try to be funny and my post gets overlooked by the intended audience. How disappointing.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Robz888 on April 03, 2018, 12:29:03 am
Robz is married? Changes everything.

I met Mrs Robz in the sixth grade and she is my soul mate, except she hates most games and threatens divorce every time I try to talk to her about mafia, Dominion, etc.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 03, 2018, 12:47:29 am
I feel like Iíve been gone forever. Still super busy but I missed you guys!
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Galzria on April 03, 2018, 02:27:22 am
Vote: Galz for hammering me last game!

That was strictly protown.

Are you against protown things?

vote: Robz
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Galzria on April 03, 2018, 02:28:30 am
This setup really throws me for a loop. There's so much there lol.

Anybody with a good memory know what games have run this setup in the past so I can read back to get a feel?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Galzria on April 03, 2018, 02:31:54 am
 Roles I need help understanding:

Drunk (the wording is super confusing)
Anarchic Cop (haven't seen the modifier before)
Hidden Ascetic - how does the Hidden mechanic work?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Galzria on April 03, 2018, 02:33:30 am
Way Too Early Reads List:

1. Robz - scum. This is actually a read.
2. IDontPlayThisGame - town. If he is in fact playing this game
3. McMcsalot - town. Won't be on the same team as his brother
4. e - town.
5. The Wine Merchant - strong town read. He will basically have to claim scum and the rest of you lynch him. I am convinced he is town.
6. Datswan - town. Because I don't know Datswan as well as others
7. Spaceanemone - town. Playing the odds on this one. We only have 3 scum
8. Galzria - SK. Someone has to be. (I guess not technically. Ok, I read the setup)
9. Roadrunner - town. Dude is always town and no one gives him any credit for it.
10. EFHW - scum. EFHW is a tricky one to place. And I place her as scum
11. O - town. O joking about being scum is townie, Robz doing it is scummy. Perfectly clear logic
12. Faust - town. I hope.
13. Gkrieg - scum. Because I got to the bottom of the list and realized I needed another scum

Hmmmm. Robz/EFHW/Gkrieg scum team with Galzria SK. We have our work cut out for us, town. Or we just lynch the scum.

Damn. Was I really that obvious?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Galzria on April 03, 2018, 02:35:45 am
Also, I'm playing for my next scum game, which means I have to do a good job as town here so it's not suspicious when I try hard in my next scum game. So.

Stop being so meta-aware. It's scummy of you.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Galzria on April 03, 2018, 02:40:48 am
2.718 is townie.

TWM is possibly actually DAMA or is trying too hard. This sequence felt forced:

Also dama except i am going to bed so all answers will b giv n sober

Fick aitocorrect

Fick aitocorrect

Actually, vote: TWM. Better than a rvs!omgus!joke vote on Robz
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: faust on April 03, 2018, 03:07:50 am
This setup really throws me for a loop. There's so much there lol.

Anybody with a good memory know what games have run this setup in the past so I can read back to get a feel?
The setup has been run once in M107.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: faust on April 03, 2018, 03:11:46 am
Roles I need help understanding:

Drunk (the wording is super confusing)
Anarchic Cop (haven't seen the modifier before)
Hidden Ascetic - how does the Hidden mechanic work?

Drunk redirects all actions from their target onto themselves. They also have a Motion-Detector like ability letting them know if their target was targeted at all. It should play mostly like Bodyguard.

There is no Anarchic Cop here (see D1 start), so no need to worry about that.

Hidden just means that the player who is Ascetic isn't aware of this.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: faust on April 03, 2018, 03:13:00 am
Also, I'm playing for my next scum game, which means I have to do a good job as town here so it's not suspicious when I try hard in my next scum game. So.

Stop being so meta-aware. It's scummy of you.

Actually, vote: TWM. Better than a rvs!omgus!joke vote on Robz

I am confused. Do you or don't you think Robz is scummy?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: faust on April 03, 2018, 03:16:06 am
O so far has an impeccable 100% rate of scummy posts.

Vote: O
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: O on April 03, 2018, 03:25:43 am
Vote: O

agreed tbh
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Galzria on April 03, 2018, 03:44:26 am
Also, I'm playing for my next scum game, which means I have to do a good job as town here so it's not suspicious when I try hard in my next scum game. So.

Stop being so meta-aware. It's scummy of you.

Actually, vote: TWM. Better than a rvs!omgus!joke vote on Robz

I am confused. Do you or don't you think Robz is scummy?

Sorry if that wasn't clear - no, not super scummy. The post was made more in jest.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: O on April 03, 2018, 04:06:06 am
FYI I'm abroad from Wednesday -> 10 days later. I'm pretty confident in my internet access, but might miss a day or two.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Swowl on April 03, 2018, 05:08:43 am
Galz asking for clarification on rules within the thread seems off to me.
Self voting O feels weird as well.

vote: O
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: iguanaiguana on April 03, 2018, 07:14:28 am
But it's not all right. It's not even close to all right. (https://youtu.be/d0iSoyw_btI?t=35)

Vote count 1.1

Galzria (1): Robz888
Robz888 (2): IDontPlayThisGame, 2.71828...,
The_Wine_Merchant (1): Galzria
O (3): Faust, O, DatSwan

not voting (6): McMcsalot, The_Wine_Merchant, SpaceAnemone, Roadrunner7671, EFHW, gkrieg13

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends Monday, April 9 at 9pm forum time.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: mcmcsalot on April 03, 2018, 08:48:09 am
Also, I'm playing for my next scum game, which means I have to do a good job as town here so it's not suspicious when I try hard in my next scum game. So.

I'm playing for my next scum game, which means I have to make incredibly scummy maneuvers and claim it was all a misunderstanding.
I think you burned that bridge.
Never again...
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: EFHW on April 03, 2018, 09:01:16 am
Way Too Early Reads List:
10. EFHW - scum. EFHW is a tricky one to place. And I place her as scum

[evil chuckle]
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: EFHW on April 03, 2018, 09:02:09 am
Galz asking for clarification on rules within the thread seems off to me.
Self voting O feels weird as well.

vote: O

Agree re: Galzria. vote: Galzria
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on April 03, 2018, 09:03:26 am
Why couldn't this game have started yesterday when I actually had a bit of free time?

Robz doesn't seem scummy yet. That never happens. I think O complaining about being likely to be away but able to get to the internet is townie -- contrast with the things faust posted as scum in M113 when he was about to visit me in my own internet-enabled house! Not sure what a self-vote means this early. There weren't mimes last time I looked at the setup.

Vote: e for saying the setup us unsolvable when there's so much fun to be had working it all out. I wrote a script last time when schadd ran this setup, so I think I'll just be able to reuse that here, but I'll need some time to check that out and update based on current-game info.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: mcmcsalot on April 03, 2018, 09:10:00 am
Robz being Mr. Funny Man and joking about being scum is super scummy

Vote: Robz

Super scummy for Robz at least. I just remember Robz as the one who says all jokes are scummy. But then, I am basing that off like a 3 or 4 year old before-Robz-was-married meta.

He is definitely more jokey than he was then but I agree that this is slightly scummy. Mainly because his post was about his meta right out the gate. Last game(114) as SK his first post was about how he was going to be super super townie that game, as town in 113 he started out the gate with interacting with others, town in 112 right out the gate with analysis, 111 scum jokes about massclaim now or later, 107 hes scum and talks about how he hasn't been in two games at once in awhile and that we double check claims to make sure its possible and not let scum make impossible fake claims.  So it appears robz makes jokes, talks about himself, and the setup much more often as scum. Good enough for a vote: robz for now.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: mcmcsalot on April 03, 2018, 09:18:12 am
2.718 is townie.

TWM is possibly actually DAMA or is trying too hard. This sequence felt forced:

Also dama except i am going to bed so all answers will b giv n sober

Fick aitocorrect

Fick aitocorrect

Actually, vote: TWM. Better than a rvs!omgus!joke vote on Robz

I agree with you about 2.7 disagree about TWM, none of that looked forced. This is I think a total null alignment sequence and I'm leaning town on twm.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: mcmcsalot on April 03, 2018, 09:20:11 am
Galz asking for clarification on rules within the thread seems off to me.
Self voting O feels weird as well.

vote: O

What specifically feels off about galz asking for rules clarification?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: mcmcsalot on April 03, 2018, 09:23:07 am
Galz asking for clarification on rules within the thread seems off to me.
Self voting O feels weird as well.

vote: O

Agree re: Galzria. vote: Galzria

Same question to you, can you specify exactly what it is that feels off about galz asking for clarification in thread?

would actually like EFHW to answer before datswan.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: faust on April 03, 2018, 09:45:09 am
Robz doesn't seem scummy yet. That never happens. I think O complaining about being likely to be away but able to get to the internet is townie -- contrast with the things faust posted as scum in M113 when he was about to visit me in my own internet-enabled house!
It seems a very strange idea to judge people's alignment by how much time they are willing to spend on mafia during their holidays. Or during away time, I am not sure what exactly O is away for, not that it matters. What I posted in M113 had nothing to do with my alignment whatsoever, and I see no reason why what O posted would.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: faust on April 03, 2018, 09:46:33 am
Also I think that Robz has actually been fairly townie, and that's only like 25% me not liking wagons that I didn't start myself!
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: mcmcsalot on April 03, 2018, 09:46:48 am
Robz doesn't seem scummy yet. That never happens. I think O complaining about being likely to be away but able to get to the internet is townie -- contrast with the things faust posted as scum in M113 when he was about to visit me in my own internet-enabled house!
It seems a very strange idea to judge people's alignment by how much time they are willing to spend on mafia during their holidays. Or during away time, I am not sure what exactly O is away for, not that it matters. What I posted in M113 had nothing to do with my alignment whatsoever, and I see no reason why what O posted would.
I agree and am curious what you think that indicates of Space's alignment?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: faust on April 03, 2018, 09:50:57 am
Robz doesn't seem scummy yet. That never happens. I think O complaining about being likely to be away but able to get to the internet is townie -- contrast with the things faust posted as scum in M113 when he was about to visit me in my own internet-enabled house!
It seems a very strange idea to judge people's alignment by how much time they are willing to spend on mafia during their holidays. Or during away time, I am not sure what exactly O is away for, not that it matters. What I posted in M113 had nothing to do with my alignment whatsoever, and I see no reason why what O posted would.
I agree and am curious what you think that indicates of Space's alignment?
More town than scum. I remember Space being like super convinced I would be scum in M113, which gives confirmation bias to see everything I did there as scummy which given the same mindset makes it likely for them to see people as townie that do not behave as I did then.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: faust on April 03, 2018, 09:54:43 am
He is definitely more jokey than he was then but I agree that this is slightly scummy. Mainly because his post was about his meta right out the gate. Last game(114) as SK his first post was about how he was going to be super super townie that game, as town in 113 he started out the gate with interacting with others, town in 112 right out the gate with analysis, 111 scum jokes about massclaim now or later, 107 hes scum and talks about how he hasn't been in two games at once in awhile and that we double check claims to make sure its possible and not let scum make impossible fake claims.  So it appears robz makes jokes, talks about himself, and the setup much more often as scum. Good enough for a vote: robz for now.
I am not super convinced by this. It seems to me that Robz being more jokey and less scumhunty is just a result of his posts being the first in the game. Which, you may argue that scum!Robz is more acutely aware of when the day starts and that might well be, but it makes this evidence even more circumstantial.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: mcmcsalot on April 03, 2018, 10:27:50 am
Robz doesn't seem scummy yet. That never happens. I think O complaining about being likely to be away but able to get to the internet is townie -- contrast with the things faust posted as scum in M113 when he was about to visit me in my own internet-enabled house!
It seems a very strange idea to judge people's alignment by how much time they are willing to spend on mafia during their holidays. Or during away time, I am not sure what exactly O is away for, not that it matters. What I posted in M113 had nothing to do with my alignment whatsoever, and I see no reason why what O posted would.
I agree and am curious what you think that indicates of Space's alignment?
More town than scum. I remember Space being like super convinced I would be scum in M113, which gives confirmation bias to see everything I did there as scummy which given the same mindset makes it likely for them to see people as townie that do not behave as I did then.

I agree it seems towny. My thought was that I agreed with you that I don't think either case was alignment indicative and I couldn't see a reason that scum!Space would state a somewhat stretch of a reason to townread O at this stage of the game.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 03, 2018, 10:47:45 am
Space is town. Galz is scum

vote: galz
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: O on April 03, 2018, 11:54:43 am
@MCMC what exactly does a town Robz look like in your mind
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: O on April 03, 2018, 11:56:41 am
Space is town. Galz is scum

vote: galz

No real content d1 but strong statements is gkrieg scum MO but frankly I donít remember games with him as town to compare
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: O on April 03, 2018, 12:01:06 pm
When so many of you post the same reads at the start of every game itís both a stale environment and anti town imo. Pretty low effort
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: EFHW on April 03, 2018, 12:03:29 pm
Galz asking for clarification on rules within the thread seems off to me.
Self voting O feels weird as well.

vote: O

Agree re: Galzria. vote: Galzria

Same question to you, can you specify exactly what it is that feels off about galz asking for clarification in thread?

would actually like EFHW to answer before datswan.
It's not really particular to Galz, but in general it seems rare to me that people ask for setup clarification in that way. Scum narrative would be that he needs things to say but also needs to look like he hasn't had reason to pay attn to the set-up. This accomplishes both.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: O on April 03, 2018, 12:14:32 pm
ďI have a vague disinclination towards this highly generic behaviorĒ truly is how scum are best hunted
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: faust on April 03, 2018, 12:19:52 pm
When so many of you post the same reads at the start of every game itís both a stale environment and anti town imo. Pretty low effort
Do you mean you dislike many different people expressing the same read in a game or the same person expressing the same read on a person over multiple games?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: O on April 03, 2018, 12:29:52 pm
When so many of you post the same reads at the start of every game itís both a stale environment and anti town imo. Pretty low effort
Do you mean you dislike many different people expressing the same read in a game or the same person expressing the same read on a person over multiple games?

The second one. I do It myself when Iím scum even because itís a lot easier to directly copy reads than generate new fake ones
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Galzria on April 03, 2018, 12:44:12 pm
2.718 is townie.

TWM is possibly actually DAMA or is trying too hard. This sequence felt forced:

Also dama except i am going to bed so all answers will b giv n sober

Fick aitocorrect

Fick aitocorrect

Actually, vote: TWM. Better than a rvs!omgus!joke vote on Robz

I agree with you about 2.7 disagree about TWM, none of that looked forced. This is I think a total null alignment sequence and I'm leaning town on twm.

I guess what feels forced is that autocorrect, by definition, should take improperly spelled words and create actual words from them- perhaps not the ones you intended, but still real words.

It's not a prefect system, no - but TWM blaming it while continuing to misspell and the system not catching anything feels like they were intentionally spelled wrong - hence, forced.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Robz888 on April 03, 2018, 12:59:57 pm
This is a damn confusing setup and I donít think itís particularly scummy for Galz to openly ask questions about it.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Robz888 on April 03, 2018, 01:00:53 pm
Hey mcmc this game has been going for half a day already: more than enough time for you to tell us if gkrieg is scum.

Is he?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 03, 2018, 01:04:32 pm
Space is town. Galz is scum

vote: galz

No real content d1 but strong statements is gkrieg scum MO but frankly I donít remember games with him as town to compare

I would say that I make strong statements with little D1 content as both alignments, but that I do it much more as town.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 03, 2018, 01:05:02 pm
Hey mcmc this game has been going for half a day already: more than enough time for you to tell us if gkrieg is scum.

Is he?

I'm pretty sure mcmc always thinks I'm scum...
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 03, 2018, 01:05:48 pm
This is a damn confusing setup and I donít think itís particularly scummy for Galz to openly ask questions about it.

The setup isn't that confusing, because the role PMs are right there.  You just have to realize that you can't have that much knowledge of the setup before some flips happen, which is par for the course with 9++ setups.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 03, 2018, 01:06:45 pm
Hey mcmc this game has been going for half a day already: more than enough time for you to tell us if gkrieg is scum.

Is he?

Also after the Space Alert game, I decided that I was going to take a long break, but couldn't stay away.  I would've been much less keen to play this game as scum, and would be lurking a lot harder.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Galzria on April 03, 2018, 01:26:12 pm
This is a damn confusing setup and I donít think itís particularly scummy for Galz to openly ask questions about it.

The setup isn't that confusing, because the role PMs are right there.  You just have to realize that you can't have that much knowledge of the setup before some flips happen, which is par for the course with 9++ setups.

TBF:

A) I also asked those questions in my QT and hadn't yet received a response

&

B) If memory serves it's been 6 years since I've played a 9++ setup. I'm not exactly intimately familiar with how it rolls. Add in a few changes for this, and yeah, it's a little confusing. As I'm apparently not the only one that feels this way, I feel justified in asking for clarifications.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Robz888 on April 03, 2018, 01:35:50 pm
Hey mcmc this game has been going for half a day already: more than enough time for you to tell us if gkrieg is scum.

Is he?

Also after the Space Alert game, I decided that I was going to take a long break, but couldn't stay away.  I would've been much less keen to play this game as scum, and would be lurking a lot harder.

I agree that you be less keen to play this game as scum. I disagree that enough of the game has gone by to make an evaluation as to whether you are active or lurking. That little flurry of posts just now doesnít really settle the matter.

So vote: gkrieg
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Robz888 on April 03, 2018, 01:36:48 pm
This is a damn confusing setup and I donít think itís particularly scummy for Galz to openly ask questions about it.

The setup isn't that confusing, because the role PMs are right there.  You just have to realize that you can't have that much knowledge of the setup before some flips happen, which is par for the course with 9++ setups.

TBF:

A) I also asked those questions in my QT and hadn't yet received a response

&

B) If memory serves it's been 6 years since I've played a 9++ setup. I'm not exactly intimately familiar with how it rolls. Add in a few changes for this, and yeah, it's a little confusing. As I'm apparently not the only one that feels this way, I feel justified in asking for clarifications.

And the setup info is written in Schadd speak, a language I do not speak fluently.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 03, 2018, 01:40:32 pm
Hey mcmc this game has been going for half a day already: more than enough time for you to tell us if gkrieg is scum.

Is he?

Also after the Space Alert game, I decided that I was going to take a long break, but couldn't stay away.  I would've been much less keen to play this game as scum, and would be lurking a lot harder.

I agree that you be less keen to play this game as scum. I disagree that enough of the game has gone by to make an evaluation as to whether you are active or lurking. That little flurry of posts just now doesnít really settle the matter.

So vote: gkrieg

But it also doesn't un-settle the matter.  So what is the vote for?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 03, 2018, 01:48:51 pm
2.718 is townie.

TWM is possibly actually DAMA or is trying too hard. This sequence felt forced:

Also dama except i am going to bed so all answers will b giv n sober

Fick aitocorrect

Fick aitocorrect

Actually, vote: TWM. Better than a rvs!omgus!joke vote on Robz

I don't see any reason to think that sequence was anything except actual DAMA. I know I have experience posting multiple autocorrect failures in a row in similar situations
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 03, 2018, 01:51:29 pm
When so many of you post the same reads at the start of every game itís both a stale environment and anti town imo. Pretty low effort

My reads were first. Everyone else is copying me
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Galzria on April 03, 2018, 01:57:31 pm
2.718 is townie.

TWM is possibly actually DAMA or is trying too hard. This sequence felt forced:

Also dama except i am going to bed so all answers will b giv n sober

Fick aitocorrect

Fick aitocorrect

Actually, vote: TWM. Better than a rvs!omgus!joke vote on Robz

I don't see any reason to think that sequence was anything except actual DAMA. I know I have experience posting multiple autocorrect failures in a row in similar situations

I guess? Ii's not like I have an iron clad case going here. It was just a gut feel and was more of a feel than anything that had come before.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 03, 2018, 02:03:42 pm
2.718 is townie.

TWM is possibly actually DAMA or is trying too hard. This sequence felt forced:

Also dama except i am going to bed so all answers will b giv n sober

Fick aitocorrect

Fick aitocorrect

Actually, vote: TWM. Better than a rvs!omgus!joke vote on Robz

I don't see any reason to think that sequence was anything except actual DAMA. I know I have experience posting multiple autocorrect failures in a row in similar situations

I guess? Ii's not like I have an iron clad case going here. It was just a gut feel and was more of a feel than anything that had come before.

I guess I got the feeling of TWM being actually DAMA from being online while he was posting and trying to interact with him.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: iguanaiguana on April 03, 2018, 03:01:19 pm
Down a hall in your house, down a road in December
(Down, down, down the deep river, down, down, down the deep river)
Down a hall in your house, down a road in December
(Down, down, down the deep river, down, down, down the deep river) (https://youtu.be/d0iSoyw_btI?t=43)


Vote count 1.2

Galzria (2): EFHW, gkrieg13
Robz888 (3): IDontPlayThisGame, 2.71828..., McMcsalot
The_Wine_Merchant (1): Galzria
O (3): Faust, O, DatSwan
2.71828... (1): SpaceAnemone
gkrieg13 (1): Robz888

not voting (2): The_Wine_Merchant, Roadrunner7671

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends Monday, April 9 at 9pm forum time.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: O on April 03, 2018, 03:03:06 pm
is faking a drunk AMA even scummy though
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Galzria on April 03, 2018, 03:10:22 pm
is faking a drunk AMA even scummy though

From certain people who have built an established town meta around it, yes.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Swowl on April 03, 2018, 03:50:52 pm
Galz asking for clarification on rules within the thread seems off to me.
Self voting O feels weird as well.

vote: O

What specifically feels off about galz asking for rules clarification?

I have never seen him do it before and he has been Town in every game I have ever played with him.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: mcmcsalot on April 03, 2018, 03:52:55 pm
@MCMC what exactly does a town Robz look like in your mind

I have a clear picture in my head that I could explain, don't really want to at the moment.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: mcmcsalot on April 03, 2018, 04:00:58 pm
2.718 is townie.

TWM is possibly actually DAMA or is trying too hard. This sequence felt forced:

Also dama except i am going to bed so all answers will b giv n sober

Fick aitocorrect

Fick aitocorrect

Actually, vote: TWM. Better than a rvs!omgus!joke vote on Robz

I agree with you about 2.7 disagree about TWM, none of that looked forced. This is I think a total null alignment sequence and I'm leaning town on twm.

I guess what feels forced is that autocorrect, by definition, should take improperly spelled words and create actual words from them- perhaps not the ones you intended, but still real words.

It's not a prefect system, no - but TWM blaming it while continuing to misspell and the system not catching anything feels like they were intentionally spelled wrong - hence, forced.

My guess is "will b giv n sober" was meant to be will be given sober and autocorrect didn't fix it for him causing frustration. Next two posts are legitimate intention and possibly fakely misspelled for comedic effect. Highly doubt the entire thing is faked. Also that is a pretty weak conspiracy theory for a vote. Also autocorrect is technically not a word so he would have to frequently type is as one word for autocorrect to work and it doesn't correct to swear words.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: mcmcsalot on April 03, 2018, 04:07:15 pm
Galz asking for clarification on rules within the thread seems off to me.
Self voting O feels weird as well.

vote: O

What specifically feels off about galz asking for rules clarification?

I have never seen him do it before and he has been Town in every game I have ever played with him.

This is a vastly superior answer to efhw's. Its still a super low level read and you simply said it seemed off. Agreed and voted. Town for you scum for efhw, looks like she wanted to piggyback off your statement hoping you would elaborate to a full read she could sheep.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: mcmcsalot on April 03, 2018, 04:23:55 pm
Hey mcmc this game has been going for half a day already: more than enough time for you to tell us if gkrieg is scum.

Is he?

He had 2 posts at the time so dunno. Since then not much. Lots of self reflective post which I don't like but aren't necessarily scummy.

More interestingly:
snip
13. Gkrieg - scum. Because I got to the bottom of the list and realized I needed another scum
snip
No real content d1 but strong statements is gkrieg scum MO but frankly I donít remember games with him as town to compare
snip
I agree that you be less keen to play this game as scum. I disagree that enough of the game has gone by to make an evaluation as to whether you are active or lurking. That little flurry of posts just now doesnít really settle the matter.

So vote: gkrieg

Three people have all called gkrieg scum 2.7 for literally no reason, O for a vague hedgy reason, and you for a actually no reason and even a vote. This makes me lean town on gkrieg and would not be surprised by one of the three above being scum.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Galzria on April 03, 2018, 04:28:16 pm
2.718 is townie.

TWM is possibly actually DAMA or is trying too hard. This sequence felt forced:

Also dama except i am going to bed so all answers will b giv n sober

Fick aitocorrect

Fick aitocorrect

Actually, vote: TWM. Better than a rvs!omgus!joke vote on Robz

I agree with you about 2.7 disagree about TWM, none of that looked forced. This is I think a total null alignment sequence and I'm leaning town on twm.

I guess what feels forced is that autocorrect, by definition, should take improperly spelled words and create actual words from them- perhaps not the ones you intended, but still real words.

It's not a prefect system, no - but TWM blaming it while continuing to misspell and the system not catching anything feels like they were intentionally spelled wrong - hence, forced.

My guess is "will b giv n sober" was meant to be will be given sober and autocorrect didn't fix it for him causing frustration. Next two posts are legitimate intention and possibly fakely misspelled for comedic effect. Highly doubt the entire thing is faked. Also that is a pretty weak conspiracy theory for a vote. Also autocorrect is technically not a word so he would have to frequently type is as one word for autocorrect to work and it doesn't correct to swear words.

Bolding the only point of value for debate in the above (that is, the rest of it could still be debated, but I don't see much point here and now).

I actually disagree. Well, that's not quite accurate. I agree it's weak. I disagree that it doesn't warrant a vote. TWM is aware of his meta. He very easily and quickly gets town read most games by posting DAMA content. "Oh, that's TWM being town!TWM" is a common thing. It would very much be in his favor to replicate that as scum, and given how I read it, that's what it felt like.

Of course, the fact that he DOES often do it as town is exactly what makes it a weak alignment-indicative tell. Because he could just "be doing it as town here" too. It felt off, I noted it, and I voted. For less than 25 posts into D1, I'm not at all unhappy with that.

What I don't understand/feel is why you/2.7 are so quick to jump to defend TWM here. Simply saying "I disagree, it felt natural and townie" is one thing - but you're going out of your way to discredit my vote, which I feel is completely legitimate.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 03, 2018, 04:30:21 pm
Hey mcmc this game has been going for half a day already: more than enough time for you to tell us if gkrieg is scum.

Is he?

He had 2 posts at the time so dunno. Since then not much. Lots of self reflective post which I don't like but aren't necessarily scummy.

More interestingly:
snip
13. Gkrieg - scum. Because I got to the bottom of the list and realized I needed another scum
snip
No real content d1 but strong statements is gkrieg scum MO but frankly I donít remember games with him as town to compare
snip
I agree that you be less keen to play this game as scum. I disagree that enough of the game has gone by to make an evaluation as to whether you are active or lurking. That little flurry of posts just now doesnít really settle the matter.

So vote: gkrieg

Three people have all called gkrieg scum 2.7 for literally no reason, O for a vague hedgy reason, and you for a actually no reason and even a vote. This makes me lean town on gkrieg and would not be surprised by one of the three above being scum.

One of the three: Robz
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 03, 2018, 04:40:09 pm
Hey mcmc this game has been going for half a day already: more than enough time for you to tell us if gkrieg is scum.

Is he?

He had 2 posts at the time so dunno. Since then not much. Lots of self reflective post which I don't like but aren't necessarily scummy.

More interestingly:
snip
13. Gkrieg - scum. Because I got to the bottom of the list and realized I needed another scum
snip
No real content d1 but strong statements is gkrieg scum MO but frankly I donít remember games with him as town to compare
snip
I agree that you be less keen to play this game as scum. I disagree that enough of the game has gone by to make an evaluation as to whether you are active or lurking. That little flurry of posts just now doesnít really settle the matter.

So vote: gkrieg

Three people have all called gkrieg scum 2.7 for literally no reason, O for a vague hedgy reason, and you for a actually no reason and even a vote. This makes me lean town on gkrieg and would not be surprised by one of the three above being scum.

I would say that O or Robz are the more likely ones to be scum.  2.7's didn't really seem all that scummy, and I can see myself doing what he did as town.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: O on April 03, 2018, 04:40:59 pm
I actually disagree. Well, that's not quite accurate. I agree it's weak. I disagree that it doesn't warrant a vote. TWM is aware of his meta. He very easily and quickly gets town read most games by posting DAMA content. "Oh, that's TWM being town!TWM" is a common thing. It would very much be in his favor to replicate that as scum, and given how I read it, that's what it felt like.

I have this sentiment except it's for MCMC and his auto-Robz-scumread

If I wasn't so damn scummy myself I'd have to vote for him.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: O on April 03, 2018, 04:41:46 pm
Hey mcmc this game has been going for half a day already: more than enough time for you to tell us if gkrieg is scum.

Is he?

He had 2 posts at the time so dunno. Since then not much. Lots of self reflective post which I don't like but aren't necessarily scummy.

More interestingly:
snip
13. Gkrieg - scum. Because I got to the bottom of the list and realized I needed another scum
snip
No real content d1 but strong statements is gkrieg scum MO but frankly I donít remember games with him as town to compare
snip
I agree that you be less keen to play this game as scum. I disagree that enough of the game has gone by to make an evaluation as to whether you are active or lurking. That little flurry of posts just now doesnít really settle the matter.

So vote: gkrieg

Three people have all called gkrieg scum 2.7 for literally no reason, O for a vague hedgy reason, and you for a actually no reason and even a vote. This makes me lean town on gkrieg and would not be surprised by one of the three above being scum.

I would say that O or Robz are the more likely ones to be scum.  2.7's didn't really seem all that scummy, and I can see myself doing what he did as town.

Do you disagree with me? How do you think you played D1 in our two games as Robz/Gkrieg/O scumtrio?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 03, 2018, 05:06:19 pm
Hey mcmc this game has been going for half a day already: more than enough time for you to tell us if gkrieg is scum.

Is he?

He had 2 posts at the time so dunno. Since then not much. Lots of self reflective post which I don't like but aren't necessarily scummy.

More interestingly:
snip
13. Gkrieg - scum. Because I got to the bottom of the list and realized I needed another scum
snip
No real content d1 but strong statements is gkrieg scum MO but frankly I donít remember games with him as town to compare
snip
I agree that you be less keen to play this game as scum. I disagree that enough of the game has gone by to make an evaluation as to whether you are active or lurking. That little flurry of posts just now doesnít really settle the matter.

So vote: gkrieg

Three people have all called gkrieg scum 2.7 for literally no reason, O for a vague hedgy reason, and you for a actually no reason and even a vote. This makes me lean town on gkrieg and would not be surprised by one of the three above being scum.

I would say that O or Robz are the more likely ones to be scum.  2.7's didn't really seem all that scummy, and I can see myself doing what he did as town.

Do you disagree with me? How do you think you played D1 in our two games as Robz/Gkrieg/O scumtrio?

I disagree that it is scummy.  It is something I do as town, and I try to play my scum games (especially D1) like my town games, so I don't disagree that I do it as scum, I just also do it as town.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: O on April 03, 2018, 05:11:42 pm
Hey mcmc this game has been going for half a day already: more than enough time for you to tell us if gkrieg is scum.

Is he?

He had 2 posts at the time so dunno. Since then not much. Lots of self reflective post which I don't like but aren't necessarily scummy.

More interestingly:
snip
13. Gkrieg - scum. Because I got to the bottom of the list and realized I needed another scum
snip
No real content d1 but strong statements is gkrieg scum MO but frankly I donít remember games with him as town to compare
snip
I agree that you be less keen to play this game as scum. I disagree that enough of the game has gone by to make an evaluation as to whether you are active or lurking. That little flurry of posts just now doesnít really settle the matter.

So vote: gkrieg

Three people have all called gkrieg scum 2.7 for literally no reason, O for a vague hedgy reason, and you for a actually no reason and even a vote. This makes me lean town on gkrieg and would not be surprised by one of the three above being scum.

I would say that O or Robz are the more likely ones to be scum.  2.7's didn't really seem all that scummy, and I can see myself doing what he did as town.

Do you disagree with me? How do you think you played D1 in our two games as Robz/Gkrieg/O scumtrio?

I disagree that it is scummy.  It is something I do as town, and I try to play my scum games (especially D1) like my town games, so I don't disagree that I do it as scum, I just also do it as town.

So you don't disagree then, because I said as much in my post that I didn't know if it was your town MO as well.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on April 03, 2018, 06:27:48 pm
Robz doesn't seem scummy yet. That never happens. I think O complaining about being likely to be away but able to get to the internet is townie -- contrast with the things faust posted as scum in M113 when he was about to visit me in my own internet-enabled house!
It seems a very strange idea to judge people's alignment by how much time they are willing to spend on mafia during their holidays. Or during away time, I am not sure what exactly O is away for, not that it matters. What I posted in M113 had nothing to do with my alignment whatsoever, and I see no reason why what O posted would.

Maybe it's not a conscious thing, even. I feel like scum would be less likely to be chilled about maybe not being able to get internet, and more likely to hold it in reserve as a just-in-case excuse/reason for lurking, as you seemed to do in M113. As for alignments this game, I'm always more suspicious of you when your logic doesn't quite gel with mine.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 03, 2018, 06:57:18 pm
Are you claiming drunk?

I try to be funny and my post gets overlooked by the intended audience. How disappointing.
Sorry! You are a funny guy.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 03, 2018, 06:57:45 pm
If you are a guy, that is. I think you are, but have been known to be wrong about such things.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 03, 2018, 06:58:15 pm
Hey mcmc this game has been going for half a day already: more than enough time for you to tell us if gkrieg is scum.

Is he?

He had 2 posts at the time so dunno. Since then not much. Lots of self reflective post which I don't like but aren't necessarily scummy.

More interestingly:
snip
13. Gkrieg - scum. Because I got to the bottom of the list and realized I needed another scum
snip
No real content d1 but strong statements is gkrieg scum MO but frankly I donít remember games with him as town to compare
snip
I agree that you be less keen to play this game as scum. I disagree that enough of the game has gone by to make an evaluation as to whether you are active or lurking. That little flurry of posts just now doesnít really settle the matter.

So vote: gkrieg

Three people have all called gkrieg scum 2.7 for literally no reason, O for a vague hedgy reason, and you for a actually no reason and even a vote. This makes me lean town on gkrieg and would not be surprised by one of the three above being scum.

I would say that O or Robz are the more likely ones to be scum.  2.7's didn't really seem all that scummy, and I can see myself doing what he did as town.

Do you disagree with me? How do you think you played D1 in our two games as Robz/Gkrieg/O scumtrio?

I disagree that it is scummy.  It is something I do as town, and I try to play my scum games (especially D1) like my town games, so I don't disagree that I do it as scum, I just also do it as town.

So you don't disagree then, because I said as much in my post that I didn't know if it was your town MO as well.

I don't disagree that I do it as scum, but the way you worded your statement made it sound like I was scummy for it, which is not true.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 03, 2018, 06:59:59 pm
2.718 is townie.

TWM is possibly actually DAMA or is trying too hard. This sequence felt forced:
Why can't it be both? The last two were intentional misspellings because at the time I thought it was funny. My sense of humor gets seriously warped after a couple of drinks.

But I hardly think that is alignment indicative and if anything it is your vote that feels forced.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 03, 2018, 07:04:19 pm
Wow. mcmc gets me.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Galzria on April 03, 2018, 07:57:52 pm
2.718 is townie.

TWM is possibly actually DAMA or is trying too hard. This sequence felt forced:
Why can't it be both? The last two were intentional misspellings because at the time I thought it was funny. My sense of humor gets seriously warped after a couple of drinks.

But I hardly think that is alignment indicative and if anything it is your vote that feels forced.

vote: mcmc

From you, that's fine. That's essentially saying "Yes, the sequence was intentional" - which is all I picked up on (and read "forced"). And you're right - you would do that as either alignment (as I noted). What I wanted and was waiting for, was for you to speak to it yourself - not have others jump to your defense for you.

Mcmc's defense of you by trying to delegitimize my vote feels like an attempt to discredit me - something he would be acutely aware to do if scum after reading (and commenting on) my VT QT in 114.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 03, 2018, 08:07:28 pm
Funny.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 03, 2018, 08:08:37 pm
And not related but I got distracted before I could vote: EFHW
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Galzria on April 03, 2018, 08:43:02 pm
And not related but I got distracted before I could vote: EFHW

Why
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 03, 2018, 09:53:46 pm
And not related but I got distracted before I could vote: EFHW

Why
What mcmc said resonated
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Galzria on April 03, 2018, 09:57:42 pm
And not related but I got distracted before I could vote: EFHW

Why
What mcmc said resonated

Do you think scum!EFHW would sheep without detailed thought so easily? Do you think scum!Swan incapable of coming up reasons for his votes?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 03, 2018, 10:15:41 pm
And not related but I got distracted before I could vote: EFHW

Why
What mcmc said resonated

Do you think scum!EFHW would sheep without detailed thought so easily? Do you think scum!Swan incapable of coming up reasons for his votes?
These questions don't seem relevant. Or rather than are imposing ideas into my head that I don't have. mcmc might have said them, but I don't necessarily agree with his whole comment.

EFHW's later justification for her sheep/read/vote felt less authentic than Datswan's, which was completely based off prior observations. Mostly I think it ridiculous to find anyone scummy for asking setup questions. Do you think it is? You are the one who did it.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 03, 2018, 10:15:59 pm
Is RR in this game?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: EFHW on April 03, 2018, 10:50:15 pm
mcmc is overdefending TWM.

And everyone (except Galzria!) is misunderstanding (?) what I said. There's nothing wrong with asking questions, it's just that it doesn't happen that much. And Galzria had made a big point of saying he didn't know the setup, so that fit a scum narrative. This big a fuss makes me want my vote to stay there for now.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: EFHW on April 03, 2018, 10:50:58 pm
Wow. mcmc gets me.

Best Buds!
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 04, 2018, 12:28:01 am
mcmc is overdefending TWM.

Totally the best way to get TWM to think you are town.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 04, 2018, 12:30:20 am
Is RR in this game?

Yes, he is
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: faust on April 04, 2018, 12:58:58 am
Robz doesn't seem scummy yet. That never happens. I think O complaining about being likely to be away but able to get to the internet is townie -- contrast with the things faust posted as scum in M113 when he was about to visit me in my own internet-enabled house!
It seems a very strange idea to judge people's alignment by how much time they are willing to spend on mafia during their holidays. Or during away time, I am not sure what exactly O is away for, not that it matters. What I posted in M113 had nothing to do with my alignment whatsoever, and I see no reason why what O posted would.

Maybe it's not a conscious thing, even. I feel like scum would be less likely to be chilled about maybe not being able to get internet, and more likely to hold it in reserve as a just-in-case excuse/reason for lurking, as you seemed to do in M113. As for alignments this game, I'm always more suspicious of you when your logic doesn't quite gel with mine.
And it doesn't right now?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: faust on April 04, 2018, 03:09:05 am
Is RR in this game?

Yes, he is
Cool.

Request prod on RR
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: faust on April 04, 2018, 03:10:54 am
And request prod on Idplay, I figured out that he's also eligible.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: iguanaiguana on April 04, 2018, 07:30:17 am
Tell me 'bout the greatest show or the greatest movie you know
or the greatest song that you taped from off the radio.
Play it again and again it cuts off at the ending though.
 (https://youtu.be/d0iSoyw_btI?t=80)

Vote count 1.3

Galzria (2): EFHW, gkrieg13
Robz888 (3): IDontPlayThisGame, 2.71828..., McMcsalot
O (3): Faust, O, DatSwan
2.71828... (1): SpaceAnemone
gkrieg13 (1): Robz888
McMcsalot (1): Galzria
EFHW (1): The_Wine_Merchant

not voting (1): Roadrunner7671

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends Monday, April 9 at 9pm forum time.

Request prod on RR
And request prod on Idplay, I figured out that he's also eligible.

Sent. For reference, these are my slightly nonstandard prod rules:
Quote
6. One prod will be issued after 24 hours without posting in the game thread. Players are subject to replacement or modkill after two prods.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: faust on April 04, 2018, 07:38:20 am
My new strategy is to prod you all to death until I am the last one standing!
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on April 04, 2018, 07:48:23 am
Robz doesn't seem scummy yet. That never happens. I think O complaining about being likely to be away but able to get to the internet is townie -- contrast with the things faust posted as scum in M113 when he was about to visit me in my own internet-enabled house!
It seems a very strange idea to judge people's alignment by how much time they are willing to spend on mafia during their holidays. Or during away time, I am not sure what exactly O is away for, not that it matters. What I posted in M113 had nothing to do with my alignment whatsoever, and I see no reason why what O posted would.

Maybe it's not a conscious thing, even. I feel like scum would be less likely to be chilled about maybe not being able to get internet, and more likely to hold it in reserve as a just-in-case excuse/reason for lurking, as you seemed to do in M113. As for alignments this game, I'm always more suspicious of you when your logic doesn't quite gel with mine.
And it doesn't right now?

Your assertion that worries over game presence are not alignment indicative felt too clearly incorrect to me. I guess that's a case of differing underlying beliefs rather than a difference in logical deduction (which is where I've pinned you down as scum before), so I'll reserve judgement for now.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: faust on April 04, 2018, 07:52:36 am
I shall be extra careful with my deductions then! Maybe.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Robz888 on April 04, 2018, 09:08:04 am
Am I seriously the leading wagon? Lol I wish I was scum.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: mcmcsalot on April 04, 2018, 09:26:38 am
Galz its interesting that you claim I am overdefending TWM. First off I have made two posts about it, one simply saying based on my experience with TWM that it was not scummy of him and I don't think it merited a vote. You then explained what you meant by forced and I agreed that while the last two posts were possibly fakely misspelled that still wasn't alignment indicative. That is hardly overdefending simply stating my thought about a pretty small thing you posted. Lets actually go through your posts on the matter.

Your initial post about TWM which was a read followed by a vote, something we typically want everyone to comment on and discuss, not a question to twm which I could maybe see where you would be upset that other people answered for him.
I then disagreed with your read and you felt the need to defend your statement and explain what you meant by forced.
2.7 tells you he disagrees with the read and you again defend yourself saying its not an iron clad case more of a gut read. Which is fine, its early day one, noone is saying you are too confident in your case we are just stating our opinion of the situation.
O questions the situation and insinuates he also think its not scummy, to which for the third time you defend yourself and explain why for twm you think its scummy
In response to your explanation to me about what you meant by forced I stated that I understood what you meant and that even if the last two posts were faked I still didn't think it was alignment indicative. You once again defend yourself stating you know its a weak case but you still think there is reason enough to vote. Which is fine, noone is forcing you to unvote, noone is claiming we find you scummy for making the case in the first place, three people are just stating their opinions about what you said and you won't let it go.


2.718 is townie.

TWM is possibly actually DAMA or is trying too hard. This sequence felt forced:
Why can't it be both? The last two were intentional misspellings because at the time I thought it was funny. My sense of humor gets seriously warped after a couple of drinks.

But I hardly think that is alignment indicative and if anything it is your vote that feels forced.

vote: mcmc

From you, that's fine. That's essentially saying "Yes, the sequence was intentional" - which is all I picked up on (and read "forced"). And you're right - you would do that as either alignment (as I noted). What I wanted and was waiting for, was for you to speak to it yourself - not have others jump to your defense for you.

Mcmc's defense of you by trying to delegitimize my vote feels like an attempt to discredit me - something he would be acutely aware to do if scum after reading (and commenting on) my VT QT in 114.

Finally when TWM defends himself by saying yep the last two posts were faked and that he claims it's not alignment indicative, you agree that he would do it as either alignment and state what you really wanted was for TWM to respond to your vote and not have other people comment on it. Now you come to the conclusion that because I made two posts about it one my read and two a clarification that I knew what you meant by forced and still thought it wasn't scummy you think I was overdefensive and trying to discredit you because I complimented your qt last game.

I am curious how you think I should have reacted as town to you placing a vote for TWM with a reason I disagreed with?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Robz888 on April 04, 2018, 03:29:50 pm
A lull in the action! Probably means faust is scum. Vote: faust
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: EFHW on April 04, 2018, 04:21:55 pm
mcmc, you're pretty critical of Galzria. Why aren't you voting for him?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: EFHW on April 04, 2018, 04:24:26 pm
I shall be extra careful with my deductions then! Maybe.

faust seems cheerier than usual. Goid vacation?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Robz888 on April 04, 2018, 04:25:44 pm
mcmc, you're pretty critical of Galzria. Why aren't you voting for him?

Because they are both scum.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on April 04, 2018, 04:29:53 pm
mcmc, you're pretty critical of Galzria. Why aren't you voting for him?

Because they are both scum.

And yet you're voting for faust because:
A lull in the action! Probably means faust is scum. Vote: faust
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: mcmcsalot on April 04, 2018, 04:43:13 pm
mcmc, you're pretty critical of Galzria. Why aren't you voting for him?

vote: efhw Based on the response to my earlier question and this post.

Because I don't think I am that critical of Galz...is this how people started lurking all the time and never making reads. Just because I disagreed with galz very early read of a small thing twm did and then did not like his attack of me for being what he calls defensive does NOT a scumread make. I see why galz thought what he did about TWM, it is a reasonable thought, just one I thought was wrong. I think galz is absolutely overblowing my defense of TWM and that makes me slightly suspicious of him but Mafia 111 we disagreed on tons of stuff and I felt like he was really not like the town!galz I remembered from years ago and then he turned out to be town.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: mcmcsalot on April 04, 2018, 04:46:54 pm
mcmc is overdefending TWM.

And everyone (except Galzria!) is misunderstanding (?) what I said. There's nothing wrong with asking questions, it's just that it doesn't happen that much. And Galzria had made a big point of saying he didn't know the setup, so that fit a scum narrative. This big a fuss makes me want my vote to stay there for now.

and same amount of criticism goes to you for thinking I was overdefending twm in my two posts where I disagreed with galz's read
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 04, 2018, 04:53:47 pm
mcmc seems townie as well.  I'm not getting the early townie vibes from faust though.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: O on April 04, 2018, 05:29:07 pm
mcmc scummy
datswan scummy

nobody else interesting.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on April 04, 2018, 06:09:11 pm
mcmc scummy
datswan scummy

nobody else interesting.

Not sure about DatSwan, but I disagree about mcmc.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Swowl on April 04, 2018, 06:12:12 pm
mcmc scummy
datswan scummy

nobody else interesting.

Just to be clear? Am I skummy because I voting for you? Or is there like an actual reason?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: iguanaiguana on April 04, 2018, 07:21:07 pm

Tell me I'm always gonna be your best friend.
Now you said it one time, why don't you say it again?
All the way down the line to where the telephone ends
come on and shout it on down the wire.  (https://youtu.be/d0iSoyw_btI?t=94)


Vote count 1.4

Galzria (2): EFHW, gkrieg13
Robz888 (2): IDontPlayThisGame, 2.71828...
O (3): faust, O, DatSwan
2.71828... (1): SpaceAnemone
faust (1): Robz888
McMcsalot (1): Galzria
EFHW (2): The_Wine_Merchant, McMcsalot

not voting (1): Roadrunner7671

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends Monday, April 9 at 9pm forum time.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on April 04, 2018, 07:45:09 pm
Okay, I think I've got my game state probability thing set up properly now :-) Here are the chances of there being at least one of each role in the game, given the information we know about there not being any anarchic cops:

There is a 66.6% chance of Tra. (In addition to the named tracker).
There is a 58.6% chance of 1BP.
There is a 58.6% chance of UB.
There is a 48.8% chance of SK.
There is a 45.8% chance of Veng.
There is a 33.9% chance of Dru.
There is a 17.7% chance of DVig.
There is a 2.8% chance of Inv.
There is a 2.8% chance of TRC.
There is a 1.9% chance of BPJK.

Likelihoods of different numbers of Ts, for matching against scum powers:
0 Ts: 7.8%
1 Ts: 25.9%
2 Ts: 34.6%
3 Ts: 23.0%
4 Ts: 7.7%
5 Ts: 1.0%
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 04, 2018, 09:56:49 pm
Okay, I think I've got my game state probability thing set up properly now :-) Here are the chances of there being at least one of each role in the game, given the information we know about there not being any anarchic cops:

There is a 66.6% chance of Tra. (In addition to the named tracker).
There is a 58.6% chance of 1BP.
There is a 58.6% chance of UB.
There is a 48.8% chance of SK.
There is a 45.8% chance of Veng.
There is a 33.9% chance of Dru.
There is a 17.7% chance of DVig.
There is a 2.8% chance of Inv.
There is a 2.8% chance of TRC.
There is a 1.9% chance of BPJK.

Likelihoods of different numbers of Ts, for matching against scum powers:
0 Ts: 7.8%
1 Ts: 25.9%
2 Ts: 34.6%
3 Ts: 23.0%
4 Ts: 7.7%
5 Ts: 1.0%

Yay so we know nothing. Carry on
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 04, 2018, 09:58:21 pm
Still very much like my Robz vote, and I agree with the general sentiment that mcmc is townie.

I don't have any feelings about faust, and RR is town for lurking
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 04, 2018, 10:00:25 pm
mcmc, you're pretty critical of Galzria. Why aren't you voting for him?

vote: efhw Based on the response to my earlier question and this post.
Uh oh. mcmc and I agree on things.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 04, 2018, 10:02:04 pm
RR is town for lurking
He isn't lurking. He hasn't posted or been online since the game opened. That is called absent and is alignment proof.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 04, 2018, 10:02:40 pm
mcmc, you're pretty critical of Galzria. Why aren't you voting for him?

vote: efhw Based on the response to my earlier question and this post.
Uh oh. mcmc and I agree on things.

I know. I like having someone to argue with. It really helps me stay more involved in the game
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 04, 2018, 10:03:14 pm
RR is town for lurking
He isn't lurking. He hasn't posted or been online since the game opened. That is called absent and is alignment proof.

RR is town for being absent
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on April 04, 2018, 10:20:35 pm
RR is town for lurking
He isn't lurking. He hasn't posted or been online since the game opened. That is called absent and is alignment proof.

RR is town for being absent

Please tell me you're not serious.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 04, 2018, 11:11:54 pm
RR is town for lurking
He isn't lurking. He hasn't posted or been online since the game opened. That is called absent and is alignment proof.

RR is town for being absent
This is me arguing with you.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: faust on April 05, 2018, 12:37:23 am
I shall be extra careful with my deductions then! Maybe.

faust seems cheerier than usual. Goid vacation?
Yes, and some time going without any games always gets me more motivated.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: faust on April 05, 2018, 12:41:59 am
RR is town for lurking
He isn't lurking. He hasn't posted or been online since the game opened. That is called absent and is alignment proof.

RR is town for being absent

Please tell me you're not serious.
Why? It's a totally valid way to read people, though I don't think very helpful in RR's case.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: faust on April 05, 2018, 12:43:44 am
mcmc, you're pretty critical of Galzria. Why aren't you voting for him?

Because they are both scum.

And yet you're voting for faust because:
A lull in the action! Probably means faust is scum. Vote: faust
What is this post trying to achieve?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: faust on April 05, 2018, 01:47:15 am
Vote: Idplay
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: faust on April 05, 2018, 01:51:20 am
I even have a case:

- Idplay is lurking
- he has not posted any content, instead his posts are only vague criticisms of other people's reads and playstyles, which does not help the game at all
- he's keeping an RVS vote on a major wagon without clarifying whether it's serious now.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Swowl on April 05, 2018, 04:20:15 am
RR is town for lurking
He isn't lurking. He hasn't posted or been online since the game opened. That is called absent and is alignment proof.

RR is town for being absent

? Is this not meant to say "RR is Null for being absent"?
Please, anyone with a read, explain to me why any player - in this instance, RR - would be either Town or Skum based on exactly zero interactions.

The strangest thing about this imo is the order of events:
we had a prod - whatever, that is fine because, in fairness, he hasn't said a word.
Then 2.7, you say he is Town for lurking - IDK how TWM is capable of figuring out he has not been online, but to the point I am making below it doesn't really matter. That point being...

Isn't this the part where 2.7 is supposed to say "lynch the lurker" or something as opposed to "the lurker is town"?

2.7 - why do you think RR is Town for his absolute inaction in the game thus far?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: faust on April 05, 2018, 04:44:53 am
Why is everyone making such a big fuss about e's very inconsequential RR read? Aren't there more important things on your mind? Like you could tell me how you feel about my Idplay case, or explain to me how your read on O developed since you vote for him.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: faust on April 05, 2018, 04:45:17 am
The above is directed at DatSwan by the way.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: faust on April 05, 2018, 04:49:23 am
Also, calling it now: The scumteam is Idplay, EFHW, mcmc.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Swowl on April 05, 2018, 07:08:50 am
Why is everyone making such a big fuss about e's very inconsequential RR read? Aren't there more important things on your mind? Like you could tell me how you feel about my Idplay case, or explain to me how your read on O developed since you vote for him.

RR Case - I made it pretty clear that my statements about this were based on - what appears to be - a mutual understanding. That is to say it is nonsense. Just because it is nonsense does not mean we should ignore the nonsense surrounding it though.

O Read - Pretty much the same as it was at the beginning. Voting for the IC Day1, self voting for fun, making some absurd early claim, etc. always leads to the same WIFOM - "why would someone do that as skum?". Thing is, they like... always turn out to be skum. So no, nothing really new, but I still like the vote. Could also go for Galz at this point, but the dude literally never gets lynched so I don't see the point in trying.

IDP - You have merit to this I suppose. But you have clearly stated you are skum reading IDP, EFHW, and MC. Why not push for someone who is contributing content from your list? Wouldn't that be more beneficial if they flip skum as opposed to someone who has contributed essentially nothing?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Swowl on April 05, 2018, 07:11:03 am
also, collaborative effort attempt here - same question to you. how do you feel about your original O vote? I know you switched off, but where are you at on that currently?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: faust on April 05, 2018, 07:33:17 am
IDP - You have merit to this I suppose. But you have clearly stated you are skum reading IDP, EFHW, and MC. Why not push for someone who is contributing content from your list? Wouldn't that be more beneficial if they flip skum as opposed to someone who has contributed essentially nothing?
The idea is that pushing for that case will lead to more contribution from that person. Also I fundamentally disagree that it is more beneficial to lynch an active scum than it is to lynch a scum lurker.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: faust on April 05, 2018, 07:39:37 am
also, collaborative effort attempt here - same question to you. how do you feel about your original O vote? I know you switched off, but where are you at on that currently?
I don't like what he's doing, but he did similar silly stuff in M100 and was town there. I seem to remember that scum!O is more in the background, but cannot recall a game where he was scum.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: O on April 05, 2018, 08:47:35 am
also, collaborative effort attempt here - same question to you. how do you feel about your original O vote? I know you switched off, but where are you at on that currently?
I don't like what he's doing, but he did similar silly stuff in M100 and was town there. I seem to remember that scum!O is more in the background, but cannot recall a game where he was scum.

What am I doing?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: faust on April 05, 2018, 09:00:25 am
also, collaborative effort attempt here - same question to you. how do you feel about your original O vote? I know you switched off, but where are you at on that currently?
I don't like what he's doing, but he did similar silly stuff in M100 and was town there. I seem to remember that scum!O is more in the background, but cannot recall a game where he was scum.

What am I doing?
Jokes and self-votes.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: O on April 05, 2018, 09:02:15 am
also, collaborative effort attempt here - same question to you. how do you feel about your original O vote? I know you switched off, but where are you at on that currently?
I don't like what he's doing, but he did similar silly stuff in M100 and was town there. I seem to remember that scum!O is more in the background, but cannot recall a game where he was scum.

What am I doing?
Jokes and self-votes.

Not outside of the first three posts of the game. Try again.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: mcmcsalot on April 05, 2018, 09:23:59 am
Datswan is towny, faust is fausty. The case on Idplay is decent
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 05, 2018, 09:34:05 am
I have a general impression that inactive!RR is more often town than scum.  That being said, being absent doesn't help either faction that he might be on
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: faust on April 05, 2018, 09:39:55 am
also, collaborative effort attempt here - same question to you. how do you feel about your original O vote? I know you switched off, but where are you at on that currently?
I don't like what he's doing, but he did similar silly stuff in M100 and was town there. I seem to remember that scum!O is more in the background, but cannot recall a game where he was scum.

What am I doing?
Jokes and self-votes.

Not outside of the first three posts of the game. Try again.
I am confused. Are you trying to convince me that you are scummy?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: mcmcsalot on April 05, 2018, 09:50:47 am
Yea I am not a fan at all of what O is doing
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on April 05, 2018, 10:15:42 am
I even have a case:

(1)- Idplay is lurking
(2)- he has not posted any content, instead his posts are only vague criticisms of other people's reads and playstyles, which does not help the game at all
(3)- he's keeping an RVS vote on a major wagon without clarifying whether it's serious now.

The numbers are mine, not faust's.

1) This comes up in every game I've played in recently. I often have trouble figuring out what to say to help a game which leads to posting nothing which doesn't help.
2) See the second sentence of 1.
3) Started as RVS, but I like the vote and it should be considered serious. Robz's opening reminded me of M111 where he was scum and I like mcmc's argument a little while back. That's enough of a reason for me to have a serious vote at this point.

With regards to lurkers = scum, how often has scum really been lurking? I can understand if people keep going with it as a policy thing to discourage scum from lurking, but I can't think of a time in my games that a lurker lynch hit scum. The closest would be M112 when scum!TWM was lynched and didn't have many posts, but that was a very slow game in general and I don't think he was lynched solely because he had a low post count.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Robz888 on April 05, 2018, 10:19:56 am
I even have a case:

- Idplay is lurking
- he has not posted any content, instead his posts are only vague criticisms of other people's reads and playstyles, which does not help the game at all
- he's keeping an RVS vote on a major wagon without clarifying whether it's serious now.

This is good enough. Vote: IDPTG
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: faust on April 05, 2018, 10:23:51 am
With regards to lurkers = scum, how often has scum really been lurking? I can understand if people keep going with it as a policy thing to discourage scum from lurking, but I can't think of a time in my games that a lurker lynch hit scum. The closest would be M112 when scum!TWM was lynched and didn't have many posts, but that was a very slow game in general and I don't think he was lynched solely because he had a low post count.
Do you think you would lurk more or less or the same amount as scum?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on April 05, 2018, 10:44:47 am
With regards to lurkers = scum, how often has scum really been lurking? I can understand if people keep going with it as a policy thing to discourage scum from lurking, but I can't think of a time in my games that a lurker lynch hit scum. The closest would be M112 when scum!TWM was lynched and didn't have many posts, but that was a very slow game in general and I don't think he was lynched solely because he had a low post count.
Do you think you would lurk more or less or the same amount as scum?

I'm not sure. I've been scum all of once and it was....a very poor showing.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: faust on April 05, 2018, 10:50:25 am
With regards to lurkers = scum, how often has scum really been lurking? I can understand if people keep going with it as a policy thing to discourage scum from lurking, but I can't think of a time in my games that a lurker lynch hit scum. The closest would be M112 when scum!TWM was lynched and didn't have many posts, but that was a very slow game in general and I don't think he was lynched solely because he had a low post count.
Do you think you would lurk more or less or the same amount as scum?

I'm not sure. I've been scum all of once and it was....a very poor showing.
So if you wouldn't say that you would lurk less as scum, then why should we take you lurking as a reason not to lynch you?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Robz888 on April 05, 2018, 10:54:26 am
IDPTG's first few posts were attempts to hold me accountable for statements I shouldn't really be held accountable for, so I found that a bit scummy.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 05, 2018, 10:56:16 am
I even have a case:

- Idplay is lurking
- he has not posted any content, instead his posts are only vague criticisms of other people's reads and playstyles, which does not help the game at all
- he's keeping an RVS vote on a major wagon without clarifying whether it's serious now.

First two points are fair, third point is scummy from faust.

Declaring the Robz wagon "major" is a stretch of the imagination at best. Yeah, it got 3 quick votes, but at the time of the post only had two, myself and IDPTG. By those standards unless you unvote completely, anyone who still has an "RVS" vote is scummy. Basically, faust is trying to throw shade where none is to be found.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: EFHW on April 05, 2018, 10:56:29 am
Yea I am not a fan at all of what O is doing
Which posts in particular do you object to?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 05, 2018, 10:58:59 am
I even have a case:

- Idplay is lurking
- he has not posted any content, instead his posts are only vague criticisms of other people's reads and playstyles, which does not help the game at all
- he's keeping an RVS vote on a major wagon without clarifying whether it's serious now.

First two points are fair, third point is scummy from faust.

Declaring the Robz wagon "major" is a stretch of the imagination at best. Yeah, it got 3 quick votes, but at the time of the post only had two, myself and IDPTG. By those standards unless you unvote completely, anyone who still has an "RVS" vote is scummy. Basically, faust is trying to throw shade where none is to be found.

And the first two points are about as alignment indicative of IDP as my statement of RR is town for being absent
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 05, 2018, 11:01:50 am
I do think Robz is fishing for any wagon that will stick at this point. Gkrieg, Faust, and now IDPTG

Now I just have to remember if he does that as town or scum... or both.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 05, 2018, 11:02:32 am
I will paint it as scummy and help build my case
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Robz888 on April 05, 2018, 11:16:48 am
I do think Robz is fishing for any wagon that will stick at this point. Gkrieg, Faust, and now IDPTG

Now I just have to remember if he does that as town or scum... or both.

I'm just sort of provoking people in my own way, that's all.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 05, 2018, 11:25:36 am
I do think Robz is fishing for any wagon that will stick at this point. Gkrieg, Faust, and now IDPTG

Now I just have to remember if he does that as town or scum... or both.

I'm just sort of provoking people in my own way, that's all.

What does this even mean?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on April 05, 2018, 11:36:59 am
With regards to lurkers = scum, how often has scum really been lurking? I can understand if people keep going with it as a policy thing to discourage scum from lurking, but I can't think of a time in my games that a lurker lynch hit scum. The closest would be M112 when scum!TWM was lynched and didn't have many posts, but that was a very slow game in general and I don't think he was lynched solely because he had a low post count.
Do you think you would lurk more or less or the same amount as scum?

I'm not sure. I've been scum all of once and it was....a very poor showing.
So if you wouldn't say that you would lurk less as scum, then why should we take you lurking as a reason not to lynch you?

That wasn't meant as, "hey, I've been lurking a bit and therefore I'm town". It was a question that hasn't been answered.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: faust on April 05, 2018, 11:42:52 am
I even have a case:

- Idplay is lurking
- he has not posted any content, instead his posts are only vague criticisms of other people's reads and playstyles, which does not help the game at all
- he's keeping an RVS vote on a major wagon without clarifying whether it's serious now.

First two points are fair, third point is scummy from faust.

Declaring the Robz wagon "major" is a stretch of the imagination at best. Yeah, it got 3 quick votes, but at the time of the post only had two, myself and IDPTG. By those standards unless you unvote completely, anyone who still has an "RVS" vote is scummy. Basically, faust is trying to throw shade where none is to be found.
Well, anyone who still has an RVS vote is scummy. The point is that Robz reads have been discussed, and usually that would make people think "hey I'm voting for that person; should I really be voting for that person?"
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: faust on April 05, 2018, 11:43:43 am
With regards to lurkers = scum, how often has scum really been lurking? I can understand if people keep going with it as a policy thing to discourage scum from lurking, but I can't think of a time in my games that a lurker lynch hit scum. The closest would be M112 when scum!TWM was lynched and didn't have many posts, but that was a very slow game in general and I don't think he was lynched solely because he had a low post count.
Do you think you would lurk more or less or the same amount as scum?

I'm not sure. I've been scum all of once and it was....a very poor showing.
So if you wouldn't say that you would lurk less as scum, then why should we take you lurking as a reason not to lynch you?

That wasn't meant as, "hey, I've been lurking a bit and therefore I'm town". It was a question that hasn't been answered.
So you deny that this was intended as a defense from you?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Robz888 on April 05, 2018, 11:44:15 am
I do think Robz is fishing for any wagon that will stick at this point. Gkrieg, Faust, and now IDPTG

Now I just have to remember if he does that as town or scum... or both.

I'm just sort of provoking people in my own way, that's all.

What does this even mean?

Some of it was quasi RVS, some of it was gauging how people would respond.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: EFHW on April 05, 2018, 12:42:50 pm
I will paint it as scummy and help build my case

You're very "meta" this game.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on April 05, 2018, 12:54:29 pm
With regards to lurkers = scum, how often has scum really been lurking? I can understand if people keep going with it as a policy thing to discourage scum from lurking, but I can't think of a time in my games that a lurker lynch hit scum. The closest would be M112 when scum!TWM was lynched and didn't have many posts, but that was a very slow game in general and I don't think he was lynched solely because he had a low post count.
Do you think you would lurk more or less or the same amount as scum?

I'm not sure. I've been scum all of once and it was....a very poor showing.
So if you wouldn't say that you would lurk less as scum, then why should we take you lurking as a reason not to lynch you?

That wasn't meant as, "hey, I've been lurking a bit and therefore I'm town". It was a question that hasn't been answered.
So you deny that this was intended as a defense from you?

Well, let's look at the whole post instead of just the snippet you're harping on.

I even have a case:

(1)- Idplay is lurking
(2)- he has not posted any content, instead his posts are only vague criticisms of other people's reads and playstyles, which does not help the game at all
(3)- he's keeping an RVS vote on a major wagon without clarifying whether it's serious now.

The numbers are mine, not faust's.

1) This comes up in every game I've played in recently. I often have trouble figuring out what to say to help a game which leads to posting nothing which doesn't help.
2) See the second sentence of 1.
3) Started as RVS, but I like the vote and it should be considered serious. Robz's opening reminded me of M111 where he was scum and I like mcmc's argument a little while back. That's enough of a reason for me to have a serious vote at this point.

With regards to lurkers = scum, how often has scum really been lurking? I can understand if people keep going with it as a policy thing to discourage scum from lurking, but I can't think of a time in my games that a lurker lynch hit scum. The closest would be M112 when scum!TWM was lynched and didn't have many posts, but that was a very slow game in general and I don't think he was lynched solely because he had a low post count.

1, 2, and 3 are my response to your case. Since you're keen on calling something a defense we can call it one if you'd like. Personally, I consider it a "response" not a "defense". The next bit, my question, is separate. That's because the rest of the post is no longer in response to your case. I can make that clearer in further posts if it would help prevent you from misrepresenting what I've said.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: faust on April 05, 2018, 01:01:23 pm
Okay, then what was the intention of talking about lurkers?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on April 05, 2018, 01:11:12 pm
Okay, then what was the intention of talking about lurkers?

It was a request for clarification on whether my remembered experience with lurker lynches is or is not representative of the reality of most of the recent Mafia games on this forum.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Galzria on April 05, 2018, 01:14:56 pm
Sorry people - boss in town from out of state yesterday and today. Will be MIA until tomorrow
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 05, 2018, 01:29:37 pm
I even have a case:

- Idplay is lurking
- he has not posted any content, instead his posts are only vague criticisms of other people's reads and playstyles, which does not help the game at all
- he's keeping an RVS vote on a major wagon without clarifying whether it's serious now.

First two points are fair, third point is scummy from faust.

Declaring the Robz wagon "major" is a stretch of the imagination at best. Yeah, it got 3 quick votes, but at the time of the post only had two, myself and IDPTG. By those standards unless you unvote completely, anyone who still has an "RVS" vote is scummy. Basically, faust is trying to throw shade where none is to be found.
Well, anyone who still has an RVS vote is scummy. The point is that Robz reads have been discussed, and usually that would make people think "hey I'm voting for that person; should I really be voting for that person?"

Do scum really leave RVS votes on longer than town?  It is something that people say is the case, but I don't really think it's true.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 05, 2018, 01:30:38 pm
I think IDPTG is town.  I don't remember him very well (probably from his lack of avatar).
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 05, 2018, 01:30:53 pm
I think IDPTG is town.  I don't remember him very well (probably from his lack of avatar).

To be clear, that is not why I think he is town though.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 05, 2018, 01:34:53 pm
I will paint it as scummy and help build my case

You're very "meta" this game.

I try to be myself every game
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: iguanaiguana on April 05, 2018, 01:35:43 pm
Cuzz replaces Roadrunner7671, effective immediately.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: iguanaiguana on April 05, 2018, 01:40:17 pm

And it's not all right.
It's not even close to all right.  (https://youtu.be/d0iSoyw_btI?t=111)

Down a hall in your house, down a road in December
(Down, down, down the deep river, down, down, down the deep river)
 (https://youtu.be/d0iSoyw_btI?t=118)

Vote count 1.5

Galzria (2): EFHW, gkrieg13
Robz888 (2): IDontPlayThisGame, 2.71828...
O (2): O, DatSwan
2.71828... (1): SpaceAnemone
McMcsalot (1): Galzria
EFHW (2): The_Wine_Merchant, McMcsalot
IDontPlayThisGame (2): faust, Robz888

not voting (1): Cuzz

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends Monday, April 9 at 9pm forum time.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on April 05, 2018, 01:43:25 pm
Yay so we know nothing. Carry on

We know little, but now we have a helpful framework to use when trying to gain more! I know a bunch of players are super-confident that they know how to use their PR to best help the game, but I think that the optimal strategy has to have some awareness of what else is likely to be out there. With a complex 9++ setup, it's not that easy for most players to get a feel for it.

Scum already knows more than town does, because their roles will tell them exactly how many Ts there are, which gives them a pretty good idea of our strength. Meanwhile, we have a definite named tracker, but what if they don't realise there are likely to be more trackers around? Does everyone go for the "obvious" target?

I get that there are players who find this level of analysis/planning non-fun and low-yield based compared to an "easy" win on plain reads, but for me it really helps, so having it painted as irrelevant just because it doesn't float everyone's boat is frustrating.

In other news, I miss Calamitas.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 05, 2018, 01:44:41 pm
I do think Robz is fishing for any wagon that will stick at this point. Gkrieg, Faust, and now IDPTG

Now I just have to remember if he does that as town or scum... or both.

I'm just sort of provoking people in my own way, that's all.

What does this even mean?

Some of it was quasi RVS, some of it was gauging how people would respond.

I really like this response from Robz. Feels very much like something I would say as town.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 05, 2018, 01:58:46 pm
In other news, I miss Calamitas.

I know!  Now it means that if you die, I think I'm the one who has to make the simulation...
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 05, 2018, 02:01:01 pm
I think right now I'm on the edge with Galzria, TWM, and Datswan.  As in, I think they are scummy, in that I don't think they have done anything townie.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Cuzz on April 05, 2018, 02:16:41 pm
Hi friends. Lots to catch up on, so if anyone wants to save me some time and tell me who the scumteam is I'd appreciate it greatly.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 05, 2018, 02:26:23 pm
Hi friends. Lots to catch up on, so if anyone wants to save me some time and tell me who the scumteam is I'd appreciate it greatly.

Robz, EFHW, gkrieg with SK!Galzria
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Cuzz on April 05, 2018, 02:29:02 pm
Hi friends. Lots to catch up on, so if anyone wants to save me some time and tell me who the scumteam is I'd appreciate it greatly.

Robz, EFHW, gkrieg with SK!Galzria

I buy it. Thanks!
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: faust on April 05, 2018, 03:29:11 pm
I think right now I'm on the edge with Galzria, TWM, and Datswan.  As in, I think they are scummy, in that I don't think they have done anything townie.
But Idplay has?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: faust on April 05, 2018, 03:30:26 pm
Galzria is a terrible lynch.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: mcmcsalot on April 05, 2018, 03:58:30 pm
Galzria is a terrible lynch.

EFHW is a good one though, I think IDP's defense was towny
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: mcmcsalot on April 05, 2018, 04:01:38 pm
Yea I am not a fan at all of what O is doing
Which posts in particular do you object to?

His inital joke followed by his joke explanation followed by his self vote. Meh actually I am fine with his posts afterward, thanks for making me do that.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 05, 2018, 04:44:56 pm
I think right now I'm on the edge with Galzria, TWM, and Datswan.  As in, I think they are scummy, in that I don't think they have done anything townie.
But Idplay has?

I thought his defense was townie in that he tried to defend himself, instead of just fading into the background.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: EFHW on April 05, 2018, 07:06:23 pm
unvote. Embarrassed to admit I conflated posts by e and Galzria. Galzria didn't claim to have ignored the setup, which was part of my "scumread".
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: EFHW on April 05, 2018, 07:20:45 pm
RR is town for lurking
He isn't lurking. He hasn't posted or been online since the game opened. That is called absent and is alignment proof.

RR is town for being absent

... IDK how TWM is capable of figuring out he has not been online

One thought is that they are both scum and RR hadn't been to the mafia qt.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on April 05, 2018, 07:49:16 pm
unvote. Embarrassed to admit I conflated posts by e and Galzria. Galzria didn't claim to have ignored the setup, which was part of my "scumread".

This seems odd from you. While e asked at #38 whether he should read the setup, he then stated at #39 that he had read it... so even thinking that e is ignoring the setup doesn't quite track.

I'm definitely not a fan of the way e treats most complex setup thought as something to be dismissed, but I feel like that's a slightly separate thing.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on April 05, 2018, 07:53:49 pm
RR is town for lurking
He isn't lurking. He hasn't posted or been online since the game opened. That is called absent and is alignment proof.

RR is town for being absent

... IDK how TWM is capable of figuring out he has not been online

One thought is that they are both scum and RR hadn't been to the mafia qt.

There's also the possibility that TWM just looked at RR's profile page (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?action=profile;u=2994) for his last login date, and saw that he hasn't been online since just after midnight on 2nd April.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 05, 2018, 08:51:12 pm
Yea I am not a fan at all of what O is doing
Which posts in particular do you object to?

His inital joke followed by his joke explanation followed by his self vote. Meh actually I am fine with his posts afterward, thanks for making me do that.
This feels like a townie post. Similar to the one that whomever pointed out about Robz above.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 05, 2018, 08:52:43 pm
RR is town for lurking
He isn't lurking. He hasn't posted or been online since the game opened. That is called absent and is alignment proof.

RR is town for being absent

... IDK how TWM is capable of figuring out he has not been online

One thought is that they are both scum and RR hadn't been to the mafia qt.

There's also the possibility that TWM just looked at RR's profile page (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?action=profile;u=2994) for his last login date, and saw that he hasn't been online since just after midnight on 2nd April.
Oooh! That is exactly what I did! Datswan's question feels legitimate. EFHW just feels like a smear attempt, although to be fair a major stretch of one, so maybe not really?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 05, 2018, 08:54:11 pm
unvote. Embarrassed to admit I conflated posts by e and Galzria. Galzria didn't claim to have ignored the setup, which was part of my "scumread".
Still don't know why that  is scummy? I have yet to make a thorough read through the setup and this certainly isn't the first time. I'll probably get to it Night 1 or if I have to at some point during Day 1 (claim or something that happens).
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Swowl on April 05, 2018, 10:06:12 pm
IDP - You have merit to this I suppose. But you have clearly stated you are skum reading IDP, EFHW, and MC. Why not push for someone who is contributing content from your list? Wouldn't that be more beneficial if they flip skum as opposed to someone who has contributed essentially nothing?
The idea is that pushing for that case will lead to more contribution from that person. Also I fundamentally disagree that it is more beneficial to lynch an active scum than it is to lynch a scum lurker.
Right but like... only if they are skum. Since players have no color prior to flip i guess we just have different opinions. I generally would lynch the more active of a skum Pool instead of the lurker for the information it would generate (regardless of allignnment.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: faust on April 06, 2018, 12:35:47 am
IDP - You have merit to this I suppose. But you have clearly stated you are skum reading IDP, EFHW, and MC. Why not push for someone who is contributing content from your list? Wouldn't that be more beneficial if they flip skum as opposed to someone who has contributed essentially nothing?
The idea is that pushing for that case will lead to more contribution from that person. Also I fundamentally disagree that it is more beneficial to lynch an active scum than it is to lynch a scum lurker.
Right but like... only if they are skum. Since players have no color prior to flip i guess we just have different opinions. I generally would lynch the more active of a skum Pool instead of the lurker for the information it would generate (regardless of allignnment.
I wouldn't.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: faust on April 06, 2018, 12:39:19 am
I am seriously confused by the amount of defense Idplay is getting for showing the tiniest amount of work. But some of those defending him have to be town... I don't get at all how you could feel so strongly about Idplay. Doing anything is now a reason to be townread? Or what?

Eh. Well since  this is going nowhere, I might as well vote: EFHW
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on April 06, 2018, 05:53:08 am
I am seriously confused by the amount of defense Idplay is getting for showing the tiniest amount of work. But some of those defending him have to be town... I don't get at all how you could feel so strongly about Idplay.

I saw Gkrieg's one, which basically echos what I think, which is that IDP is freakily invisible because of the lack of avatar.

Now I'm actually looking, I see that mcmc said specifically that he thought IDP's defense was townie. So that's a second.

Are you counting Datswan's vague statement about preferring to lynch an active scummy person rather than a lurky one as a defense? I think I'm with Swan on that one, but it's going to be really variable depending on the person, their playstyle, and the role they've been dealt in the game, so really it has to be considered on a case-by-case basis. Personally, I just don't have a feeling either way on IDP yet.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on April 06, 2018, 06:01:41 am
Eh. Well since  this is going nowhere, I might as well vote: EFHW

I'll bite. Vote: EFHW.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: faust on April 06, 2018, 06:11:43 am
I am seriously confused by the amount of defense Idplay is getting for showing the tiniest amount of work. But some of those defending him have to be town... I don't get at all how you could feel so strongly about Idplay.

I saw Gkrieg's one, which basically echos what I think, which is that IDP is freakily invisible because of the lack of avatar.

Now I'm actually looking, I see that mcmc said specifically that he thought IDP's defense was townie. So that's a second.

Are you counting Datswan's vague statement about preferring to lynch an active scummy person rather than a lurky one as a defense? I think I'm with Swan on that one, but it's going to be really variable depending on the person, their playstyle, and the role they've been dealt in the game, so really it has to be considered on a case-by-case basis. Personally, I just don't have a feeling either way on IDP yet.
No, I'm also counting e:

I even have a case:

- Idplay is lurking
- he has not posted any content, instead his posts are only vague criticisms of other people's reads and playstyles, which does not help the game at all
- he's keeping an RVS vote on a major wagon without clarifying whether it's serious now.

First two points are fair, third point is scummy from faust.

Declaring the Robz wagon "major" is a stretch of the imagination at best. Yeah, it got 3 quick votes, but at the time of the post only had two, myself and IDPTG. By those standards unless you unvote completely, anyone who still has an "RVS" vote is scummy. Basically, faust is trying to throw shade where none is to be found.

And the first two points are about as alignment indicative of IDP as my statement of RR is town for being absent
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: faust on April 06, 2018, 06:13:48 am
Side note, I also don't understand why people would want to leave lurkers alive. I'd rather lynch a scummy AND anti-town player than one who is just scummy.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: iguanaiguana on April 06, 2018, 07:05:49 am

Shivering from the late fall cold,
I felt like a solid ghost.
I ran and then I couldn't slow.
My father found me though, my father took me home.
 (https://youtu.be/d0iSoyw_btI?t=155)

Vote count 1.6

Galzria (1): gkrieg13
Robz888 (2): IDontPlayThisGame, 2.71828...
O (2): O, DatSwan
McMcsalot (1): Galzria
EFHW (4): The_Wine_Merchant, McMcsalot, faust, SpaceAnemone
IDontPlayThisGame (1): Robz888

not voting (2): Cuzz, EFHW

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends Monday, April 9 at 9pm forum time.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: faust on April 06, 2018, 07:15:10 am
I reread for a bit and realized that I don't want to be voting EFHW. She conflated posts by Galzria and e and that only happens to scum!EFHW if both Galzria and e are town, thus the probability of EFHW being scum is decreased.

On the other hand I am not a fan of TWM so far. Vote: TWM
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 06, 2018, 09:11:52 am
I reread for a bit and realized that I don't want to be voting EFHW. She conflated posts by Galzria and e and that only happens to scum!EFHW if both Galzria and e are town, thus the probability of EFHW being scum is decreased.

On the other hand I am not a fan of TWM so far. Vote: TWM
Specifically, you donít like what?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: faust on April 06, 2018, 09:23:00 am
I reread for a bit and realized that I don't want to be voting EFHW. She conflated posts by Galzria and e and that only happens to scum!EFHW if both Galzria and e are town, thus the probability of EFHW being scum is decreased.

On the other hand I am not a fan of TWM so far. Vote: TWM
Specifically, you donít like what?

This:
2.718 is townie.

TWM is possibly actually DAMA or is trying too hard. This sequence felt forced:
Why can't it be both? The last two were intentional misspellings because at the time I thought it was funny. My sense of humor gets seriously warped after a couple of drinks.

But I hardly think that is alignment indicative and if anything it is your vote that feels forced.
The accusation of Galzria is something I don't like. and talking about a thing you did yourself as "not alignment indicative" feels like you are detached from your own play, like you are merely faking it.

I don't like your original EFHW vote which is just for a "bad" read. I don't like the mcmc buddying.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: EFHW on April 06, 2018, 11:11:50 am
RR is town for lurking
He isn't lurking. He hasn't posted or been online since the game opened. That is called absent and is alignment proof.

RR is town for being absent

... IDK how TWM is capable of figuring out he has not been online

One thought is that they are both scum and RR hadn't been to the mafia qt.

There's also the possibility that TWM just looked at RR's profile page (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?action=profile;u=2994) for his last login date, and saw that he hasn't been online since just after midnight on 2nd April.
That is a much better explanation. But a scum player with a missing partner would be more likely to be aware of such things. I know it isn't much, but lacking another lead that speaks to me, vote: TWM.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: faust on April 06, 2018, 11:47:00 am
RR is town for lurking
He isn't lurking. He hasn't posted or been online since the game opened. That is called absent and is alignment proof.

RR is town for being absent

... IDK how TWM is capable of figuring out he has not been online

One thought is that they are both scum and RR hadn't been to the mafia qt.

There's also the possibility that TWM just looked at RR's profile page (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?action=profile;u=2994) for his last login date, and saw that he hasn't been online since just after midnight on 2nd April.
That is a much better explanation. But a scum player with a missing partner would be more likely to be aware of such things. I know it isn't much, but lacking another lead that speaks to me, vote: TWM.
A scum player would also be more aware to not talk about this publicly.

Why are you not voting Cuzz if you think they're partners?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on April 06, 2018, 12:12:17 pm
I am seriously confused by the amount of defense Idplay is getting for showing the tiniest amount of work. But some of those defending him have to be town... I don't get at all how you could feel so strongly about Idplay.

I saw Gkrieg's one, which basically echos what I think, which is that IDP is freakily invisible because of the lack of avatar.

Is my lack of avatar really that big of a deal? You can just say you don't remember me. I won't be insulted.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on April 06, 2018, 12:44:44 pm
Is my lack of avatar really that big of a deal?

Yes, for me having an avatar there makes a big difference in my ability to organise my thinking. I may not be entirely neurotypical, but I also can't see the use of an avatar not helping most people.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on April 06, 2018, 12:46:42 pm
Is my lack of avatar really that big of a deal?

Yes, for me having an avatar there makes a big difference in my ability to organise my thinking. I may not be entirely neurotypical, but I also can't see the use of an avatar not helping most people.

Ugh, fine, I'll find one.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on April 06, 2018, 01:35:01 pm
Why are you not voting Cuzz if you think they're partners?

When you voted for EFHW, you seemed to be trying to create consolidated wagons. I think that's a reasonable idea when we're coming into a weekend that's pretty much right before the deadline.

Now you've jumped away from EFHW (someone was complaining earlier about Robz going for any wagon that looked like it might stick..) and seem to be challenging her to start a new wagon on a currently-unvoted-for player; that just doesn't feel consistent.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on April 06, 2018, 01:36:42 pm
It would also be good to hear more from Cuzz.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 06, 2018, 01:56:54 pm
Faust, how do you feel about jumping off a wagon right when it was really picking up steam?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 06, 2018, 02:01:54 pm
I reread for a bit and realized that I don't want to be voting EFHW. She conflated posts by Galzria and e and that only happens to scum!EFHW if both Galzria and e are town, thus the probability of EFHW being scum is decreased.

On the other hand I am not a fan of TWM so far. Vote: TWM
Specifically, you donít like what?

This:
2.718 is townie.

TWM is possibly actually DAMA or is trying too hard. This sequence felt forced:
Why can't it be both? The last two were intentional misspellings because at the time I thought it was funny. My sense of humor gets seriously warped after a couple of drinks.

But I hardly think that is alignment indicative and if anything it is your vote that feels forced.
The accusation of Galzria is something I don't like. and talking about a thing you did yourself as "not alignment indicative" feels like you are detached from your own play, like you are merely faking it.

I don't like your original EFHW vote which is just for a "bad" read. I don't like the mcmc buddying.

Go do a search in posts of mine from any other game. I tend to say alignment indicative a lot. I get annoyed with myself for saying it as it is kind of a obtuse statement, but I have a hard time finding another way to say it. So I don't think that is alignment indicative.

Is that why I voted for EFHW? I don't think it is. I found her scummy for finding suspicion based off whether people read or didn't read the setup. It seemed like a very easy way to fabricate reads.

And mcmc buddying. I guess you could call it that. I am honestly, just trying to be not as big of a pain in the ass. I can state now that I received some mod counsel during my last game to try and, well, chill out. I am approaching that as trying to have a nicer, lighter mood to begin with. If I am found scummy for that? Well then, that is frustrating for me. But I am going to try and not let that get me off the rails.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 06, 2018, 02:03:06 pm
Faust is being pestering and playing both sides. I think that means he is probably town?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on April 06, 2018, 02:11:32 pm
Faust is being pestering and playing both sides. I think that means he is probably town?

Ugh.. I appreciate your calm behaviour, in that people getting genuinely angry in-thread isn't nice, but I can pretty much feel a careless shrug in your words there.

Why is inconsistent!faust prob!town for "playing both sides" -- isn't that exactly how scum work to find a likely wagon for a mislynch?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 06, 2018, 02:22:36 pm
Faust is being pestering and playing both sides. I think that means he is probably town?

Ugh.. I appreciate your calm behaviour, in that people getting genuinely angry in-thread isn't nice, but I can pretty much feel a careless shrug in your words there.

Why is inconsistent!faust prob!town for "playing both sides" -- isn't that exactly how scum work to find a likely wagon for a mislynch?

I agree with Space here.  vote: faust
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 06, 2018, 02:23:03 pm
Although I would much rather lynch a lurker than faust D1.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 06, 2018, 02:33:07 pm
Faust clearly explained why he left EFHW. It was a totally valid reason in my mind? Why are people calling him scum for it?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 06, 2018, 02:33:31 pm
Faust clearly explained why he left EFHW. It was a totally valid reason in my mind? Why are people calling him scum for it?

Too many question marks. Only the last one is supposed to be a question
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 06, 2018, 02:34:34 pm
Faust is being pestering and playing both sides. I think that means he is probably town?

Ugh.. I appreciate your calm behaviour, in that people getting genuinely angry in-thread isn't nice, but I can pretty much feel a careless shrug in your words there.

Why is inconsistent!faust prob!town for "playing both sides" -- isn't that exactly how scum work to find a likely wagon for a mislynch?

It isn't inconsistent!faust. He voted EFHW for a reason. He found a more compelling reason to think EFHW was town. He moved his vote.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Cuzz on April 06, 2018, 03:16:51 pm
It would also be good to hear more from Cuzz.

Cuzz replaced in and has not caught up, but is town fwiw.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Robz888 on April 06, 2018, 03:34:52 pm
unvote. Embarrassed to admit I conflated posts by e and Galzria. Galzria didn't claim to have ignored the setup, which was part of my "scumread".

A very townie admission I think.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Robz888 on April 06, 2018, 03:37:16 pm
Side note, I also don't understand why people would want to leave lurkers alive. I'd rather lynch a scummy AND anti-town player than one who is just scummy.

Same, and I'm totally baffled by DatSwan's statement to the contrary. Also, it's way easier to lynch lurky scums than active scums, so going after lurkers is IMO often better, because you're more likely to actually succeed.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Robz888 on April 06, 2018, 03:38:20 pm
Now I'm reading faust as pretty strongly town.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 06, 2018, 04:15:51 pm
Vote: O until he removes the self vote. Like faust said and Robz just quoted, lurking and anti-town is good enough to lynch D1. (Acknowledging that O said he wouldn't have the best access, but he still needs to get rid of his self vote)

I will let Robz live another day.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: O on April 06, 2018, 06:12:07 pm
Unvote

I'm exploring Tokyo, for those who would enjoy details about the lack of attention  ;D
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: O on April 06, 2018, 06:12:18 pm
Will read more when I get back to hotel tonight
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 06, 2018, 06:18:32 pm
Faust is being pestering and playing both sides. I think that means he is probably town?

Ugh.. I appreciate your calm behaviour, in that people getting genuinely angry in-thread isn't nice, but I can pretty much feel a careless shrug in your words there.

Why is inconsistent!faust prob!town for "playing both sides" -- isn't that exactly how scum work to find a likely wagon for a mislynch?
I mean that he is playing the type of game where is just needling everyone and poking and prodding. And that tends to make me want to vote for him just because I find it aggregating especially when he doesn't let others do it to him, but those reads of mine tend to be completely incorrect, so he is probably town.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 06, 2018, 06:19:30 pm
Faust is being pestering and playing both sides. I think that means he is probably town?

Ugh.. I appreciate your calm behaviour, in that people getting genuinely angry in-thread isn't nice, but I can pretty much feel a careless shrug in your words there.

Why is inconsistent!faust prob!town for "playing both sides" -- isn't that exactly how scum work to find a likely wagon for a mislynch?

It isn't inconsistent!faust. He voted EFHW for a reason. He found a more compelling reason to think EFHW was town. He moved his vote.
I didn't mean in regard to EFHW. I meant in regard to me. One minute he is voting for me, the next he is defending me against a point. He was playing both sides of it.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 06, 2018, 06:19:44 pm
I could vote 2.7.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 06, 2018, 06:21:15 pm
Although I would much rather lynch a lurker than faust D1.
And yet your vote is there.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 06, 2018, 06:36:35 pm
I could vote 2.7.

That's a true statement.

In the meantime, vote: Space. The EFHW wagon is a scummy one.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on April 06, 2018, 07:26:43 pm
Side note, I also don't understand why people would want to leave lurkers alive. I'd rather lynch a scummy AND anti-town player than one who is just scummy.

Same, and I'm totally baffled by DatSwan's statement to the contrary. Also, it's way easier to lynch lurky scums than active scums, so going after lurkers is IMO often better, because you're more likely to actually succeed.

When was the last time you lynched a scum!lurker? Approximate amount of time will do.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on April 06, 2018, 07:33:11 pm
I get the rabbit hole this goes down, but can we please either acknowledge that lurker lynches are more policy driven than success driven or make an argument that scum has been lurking?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 06, 2018, 08:48:08 pm
I think first you have to qualify who is a lurker and then find the scummiest of them. Not just pick one and role with it just because. See sir Martin lynch day 1 from last game.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 06, 2018, 08:50:51 pm
Top of head from the list that would be cuz, o, idptg, day swan and maybe galz.

But most, of not all have circumstances behind that and I would want to look at specific posts to actually come to that determination.

Instead I want to explore vote: 2.7
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 06, 2018, 11:47:14 pm
Instead I want to explore vote: 2.7

What is there to explore? I suppose the possibilities are endless
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 06, 2018, 11:51:56 pm
I get the rabbit hole this goes down, but can we please either acknowledge that lurker lynches are more policy driven than success driven or make an argument that scum has been lurking?

In a game with this many players, I anticipate something of a 4/4/4 split with super active, middling, and lurker. I would need to do a part count (not doing it) to see where we fall, but I would not be surprised to find one scum in each group.

From there you just look at lurkers being most anti town, and as TWM stated lynch the scummiest of them. "Lynch all lurkers" is definitely not a way to win games (although scum have lurked to wins before) but the more active content in a game, the easier for scum to be found
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 06, 2018, 11:53:01 pm
*post count.


(Making typos and correcting them to inflate my own) (not really, just making typos)
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 07, 2018, 12:10:42 am
Instead I want to explore vote: 2.7

What is there to explore? I suppose the possibilities are endless
You know what happens when you suppose?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 07, 2018, 01:03:54 am
Instead I want to explore vote: 2.7

What is there to explore? I suppose the possibilities are endless
You know what happens when you suppose?

No, what?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 07, 2018, 01:45:57 am
Instead I want to explore vote: 2.7

What is there to explore? I suppose the possibilities are endless
You know what happens when you suppose?

No, what?
You say "Sup?" to my posse
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Swowl on April 07, 2018, 05:50:14 am
Instead I want to explore vote: 2.7

What is there to explore? I suppose the possibilities are endless
You know what happens when you suppose?

No, what?
You say "Sup?" to my posse

First off - This post.. Hilarious. Using it all the time. Thank you.
Secondly - are we serious? I have been working for two days and I come back and we are still on this lurkers bit? RR needs a prod or something that is for sure. But outside of that the people that have been promoting lynches based on lurking, as well as the lurkers, should be looked into. I know that second bit puts me in the pool.

Faust seems skummy.
Galz seems skummy.
Space seems skummy for having the same opinion as me, because we never agree.
MCMC has the best early game meta I have ever seen so an eye should be kept on him.
TWM seems like Town TWM.
O is weird.
Null on rest.
Someone should make sure RR isn't dead.

Gnight.

vote:Faust
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: faust on April 07, 2018, 06:40:32 am
But outside of that the people that have been promoting lynches based on lurking, as well as the lurkers, should be looked into.
Just to clarify that I have done no such thing.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: faust on April 07, 2018, 06:42:46 am
Faust is being pestering and playing both sides. I think that means he is probably town?

Ugh.. I appreciate your calm behaviour, in that people getting genuinely angry in-thread isn't nice, but I can pretty much feel a careless shrug in your words there.

Why is inconsistent!faust prob!town for "playing both sides" -- isn't that exactly how scum work to find a likely wagon for a mislynch?
I don't know that I have ever applied this tactic as scum. I know that I don't blindly accept someone having the same rad as me if they're having that read for bad reasons.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: faust on April 07, 2018, 06:44:25 am
But I am going to try and not let that get me off the rails.
That's kind of disappointing because you are easier to read when you're off the rails!
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 07, 2018, 08:01:03 am
But I am going to try and not let that get me off the rails.
That's kind of disappointing because you are easier to read when you're off the rails!
Sorry? But it isnít very fun. For me or for others.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: faust on April 07, 2018, 08:55:58 am
But I am going to try and not let that get me off the rails.
That's kind of disappointing because you are easier to read when you're off the rails!
Sorry? But it isnít very fun. For me or for others.
Well it's probably for the best. But now how am I supposed to read you?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: iguanaiguana on April 07, 2018, 10:20:47 am

He said, Oh, son, I saw you get knocked down,
and I ran out I bet your head was spinning.
With that bright pain you stunned,
when you've only just begun to be only just beginning.
 (https://youtu.be/d0iSoyw_btI?t=176)

Vote count 1.7

faust (2): gkrieg13, DatSwan
Robz888 (1): IDontPlayThisGame
McMcsalot (1): Galzria
EFHW (2):   McMcsalot, SpaceAnemone
IDontPlayThisGame (1): Robz888
The Wine Merchant (2): faust, EFHW
SpaceAnemone (1): 2.71828...
2.71828... (1): The Wine Merchant

not voting (2): Cuzz, O

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends Monday, April 9 at 9pm forum time.

Mod Note: Mod is LA in nature today and tomorrow.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 07, 2018, 11:32:40 am
vote: Datswand
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 07, 2018, 11:50:18 am

Datswans last post makes me think he is either town with Cuzz or they are one scum/one town. Just not both scum on the same team to forget that RR was replaced
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Galzria on April 07, 2018, 11:55:39 am
I will be home at 9pmft tonight and will be catching up then.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: EFHW on April 07, 2018, 12:04:19 pm
unvote. Embarrassed to admit I conflated posts by e and Galzria. Galzria didn't claim to have ignored the setup, which was part of my "scumread".

A very townie admission I think.

vote: Robz. He has to know I am perfectly capable of making that same admission as scum.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Robz888 on April 07, 2018, 02:38:02 pm
Okay.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 07, 2018, 03:21:01 pm
 The day is actually drawing very quickly to an end. We need a real wagon. Willing to listen to cases that I like
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 07, 2018, 04:17:06 pm
vote: Efhw
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 07, 2018, 04:51:23 pm
Vote: Datswan

Wagons need to happen and I don't like EFHW, Robz, or TWM to lynch today
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: EFHW on April 07, 2018, 05:49:53 pm
vote: Efhw
why?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on April 07, 2018, 06:44:11 pm
Vote: Datswan

Wagons need to happen and I don't like EFHW, Robz, or TWM to lynch today

What is it that makes you think EFHW is townie? She herself admitted that her "confusion" thing isn't something that should garner townpoints. Is there something else?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Robz888 on April 07, 2018, 06:46:39 pm
I donít like the EFHW wagon. DatSwan would be an okay lynch, but I prefer IDPTG.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on April 07, 2018, 07:09:33 pm
I'm going to be slightly VLA tomorrow, but hopefully by the time I'm back everyone should have said enough to make thorough re-reads useful. I've just got my vote-counter up and running for this game, so here are the post counts since the game started, in case anyone's curious on the back of what e was saying:

Cuzz: 3.
DatSwan: 8.
IDontPlayThisGame: 13.
SpaceAnemone: 13.
EFHW: 15.
Galzria: 17.
O: 18.
Robz888: 18.
mcmcsalot: 18.
gkrieg13: 22.
The_Wine_Merchant: 34.
2.71828.....: 37.
faust: 44.

That seems pretty much right for most people, though I feel surprised that gkrieg's been that present, and that I haven't posted more than EFHW.

PPE: Robz has posted once more since I ran the count...
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 07, 2018, 07:57:21 pm
vote: Efhw
why?
You were a wagon I liked. To pull an Awaclus question that I think has validity at times, why shouldn't I vote for you?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 07, 2018, 08:14:40 pm
Cuzz: 3.
DatSwan: 8.
IDontPlayThisGame: 13.
SpaceAnemone: 13.
EFHW: 15.
Arbitrary cut at 15, because if I include Galz at 17 then have to include the 3 18s and then we are into half the players so not lurkers.

Cuzz --- replaced in, but hasn't really done anything. Would lynch, but am not excited about in that I think that he has mafia would put in a bunch of fluff posts to counter act something exactly like this.
DatSwan --- Has focused mostly on other lurkers. Is annoyed that we are looking at lurkers. I don't exactly understand why we shouldn't exactly look at them. Says that lurkers should be looked at, but also those pushing lurkers and then gives a read of players in that category, falling on faust for ???. Maybe more weird than scummy.
IDPTG --- has exclusively talked about lurkers and himself as a lurker and meta about lurkers. I was surprised by that as I thought he had done more. Would lynch.
Space --- I don't know if I have ever played against a scum space. Honestly I don't really know what to even look for. I too was surprised to find them on the lower end of posting because their posts are some that I actually remembered reading. So cautiously townie here.
EFHW --- already voting there. Doesn't feel like a lurker as posts are there and consistent. Not all of us can be the most common poster. Still don't love their votes on me or Galz. Also somewhat more aware of mcmc than anyone else.

vote: IDTPG not so much for lurking but for only talking about lurking and being very concerned about a lurker lynch but not providing an alternative.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Swowl on April 07, 2018, 08:29:38 pm
I donít like the EFHW wagon. DatSwan would be an okay lynch, but I prefer IDPTG.

I am catching up now so if you have already answered this feel free to ignore - I will get to it. Why am I an OK lynch? I feel like you think I am skum in every game we play lol
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Swowl on April 07, 2018, 08:31:45 pm
But outside of that the people that have been promoting lynches based on lurking, as well as the lurkers, should be looked into.
Just to clarify that I have done no such thing.

Right - that is totally fair actually. Two separate points.
Point 1 - people that have been promoting lynches based on lurking, as well as the lurkers, should be looked into.
Point 2 - I think you are skum this game.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Swowl on April 07, 2018, 08:32:28 pm
vote: Datswand

I mean I think it will count, but you should probably spell check and re post to be sure. Weird no one else pointed this out...
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Swowl on April 07, 2018, 08:46:05 pm
The day is actually drawing very quickly to an end. We need a real wagon. Willing to listen to cases that I like

Faust and Galz are normally both far more aggressive when aligned with Town.

Robz saying I am an ok lynch after only nonsense reasons have been posted is skummy. I get that you are the one posting those nonsense reasons, but as I don't think you are skum I am going to hope you are aware of that.

I'll get back to you if I find more.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Swowl on April 07, 2018, 08:52:39 pm
Cuzz: 3.
DatSwan: 8.
IDontPlayThisGame: 13.
SpaceAnemone: 13.
EFHW: 15.
Arbitrary cut at 15, because if I include Galz at 17 then have to include the 3 18s and then we are into half the players so not lurkers.

Cuzz --- replaced in, but hasn't really done anything. Would lynch, but am not excited about in that I think that he has mafia would put in a bunch of fluff posts to counter act something exactly like this.
DatSwan --- Has focused mostly on other lurkers. Is annoyed that we are looking at lurkers. I don't exactly understand why we shouldn't exactly look at them. Says that lurkers should be looked at, but also those pushing lurkers and then gives a read of players in that category, falling on faust for ???. Maybe more weird than scummy.
IDPTG --- has exclusively talked about lurkers and himself as a lurker and meta about lurkers. I was surprised by that as I thought he had done more. Would lynch.
Space --- I don't know if I have ever played against a scum space. Honestly I don't really know what to even look for. I too was surprised to find them on the lower end of posting because their posts are some that I actually remembered reading. So cautiously townie here.
EFHW --- already voting there. Doesn't feel like a lurker as posts are there and consistent. Not all of us can be the most common poster. Still don't love their votes on me or Galz. Also somewhat more aware of mcmc than anyone else.

vote: IDTPG not so much for lurking but for only talking about lurking and being very concerned about a lurker lynch but not providing an alternative.

So my concept is "weird" yet you feel the need to cut a list based on post counts that iso's people you consider to be lurking?
That sir, is weird.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Swowl on April 07, 2018, 08:59:31 pm

Datswans last post makes me think he is either town with Cuzz or they are one scum/one town. Just not both scum on the same team to forget that RR was replaced

literally had no idea RR was replaced. I mean whatever, choose to believe it or not, but yeah just oblivious on my part.
Also, Town/Town for forgetting makes sense. And so does, I guess Town/Skum - where Cuzz is skum (I am not saying I think he is, more of a "anything is possible"), but like... in what world does Skum!Anyone screw up a reads list by not posting a result on a Town Player?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 07, 2018, 09:18:56 pm
Cuzz: 3.
DatSwan: 8.
IDontPlayThisGame: 13.
SpaceAnemone: 13.
EFHW: 15.
Arbitrary cut at 15, because if I include Galz at 17 then have to include the 3 18s and then we are into half the players so not lurkers.

Cuzz --- replaced in, but hasn't really done anything. Would lynch, but am not excited about in that I think that he has mafia would put in a bunch of fluff posts to counter act something exactly like this.
DatSwan --- Has focused mostly on other lurkers. Is annoyed that we are looking at lurkers. I don't exactly understand why we shouldn't exactly look at them. Says that lurkers should be looked at, but also those pushing lurkers and then gives a read of players in that category, falling on faust for ???. Maybe more weird than scummy.
IDPTG --- has exclusively talked about lurkers and himself as a lurker and meta about lurkers. I was surprised by that as I thought he had done more. Would lynch.
Space --- I don't know if I have ever played against a scum space. Honestly I don't really know what to even look for. I too was surprised to find them on the lower end of posting because their posts are some that I actually remembered reading. So cautiously townie here.
EFHW --- already voting there. Doesn't feel like a lurker as posts are there and consistent. Not all of us can be the most common poster. Still don't love their votes on me or Galz. Also somewhat more aware of mcmc than anyone else.

vote: IDTPG not so much for lurking but for only talking about lurking and being very concerned about a lurker lynch but not providing an alternative.

So my concept is "weird" yet you feel the need to cut a list based on post counts that iso's people you consider to be lurking?
That sir, is weird.
Is it? I wasnít limiting myself to voting a lurker. But instead looking specifically at them.
If none of them were scummy I would not have voted for them.

I already have a decent idea of where I stand on all the other players as they had sufficient posts to asses. The lurkers, not as much
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Swowl on April 07, 2018, 09:42:38 pm
Cuzz: 3.
DatSwan: 8.
IDontPlayThisGame: 13.
SpaceAnemone: 13.
EFHW: 15.
Arbitrary cut at 15, because if I include Galz at 17 then have to include the 3 18s and then we are into half the players so not lurkers.


Cuzz --- replaced in, but hasn't really done anything. Would lynch, but am not excited about in that I think that he has mafia would put in a bunch of fluff posts to counter act something exactly like this.
DatSwan --- Has focused mostly on other lurkers. Is annoyed that we are looking at lurkers. I don't exactly understand why we shouldn't exactly look at them. Says that lurkers should be looked at, but also those pushing lurkers and then gives a read of players in that category, falling on faust for ???. Maybe more weird than scummy.
IDPTG --- has exclusively talked about lurkers and himself as a lurker and meta about lurkers. I was surprised by that as I thought he had done more. Would lynch.
Space --- I don't know if I have ever played against a scum space. Honestly I don't really know what to even look for. I too was surprised to find them on the lower end of posting because their posts are some that I actually remembered reading. So cautiously townie here.
EFHW --- already voting there. Doesn't feel like a lurker as posts are there and consistent. Not all of us can be the most common poster. Still don't love their votes on me or Galz. Also somewhat more aware of mcmc than anyone else.

vote: IDTPG not so much for lurking but for only talking about lurking and being very concerned about a lurker lynch but not providing an alternative.

So my concept is "weird" yet you feel the need to cut a list based on post counts that iso's people you consider to be lurking?
That sir, is weird.
Is it? I wasnít limiting myself to voting a lurker. But instead looking specifically at them.
If none of them were scummy I would not have voted for them.

I already have a decent idea of where I stand on all the other players as they had sufficient posts to asses. The lurkers, not as much

That is a fair response. I guess I still find it weird that you wouldn't of just originally included all players in the list - but point taken.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on April 07, 2018, 10:00:21 pm
Please excuse me for being concerned that scum have been picking up easy, consequence-free mislynches. I forgot random lynching is the best way to win this game.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: schadd on April 07, 2018, 10:34:51 pm

Tossed in the viper pit, all those feelings and fears,
and all that difficult ---- in all those tender years.
There was something in the air; something gathered in the air.
Something singing in the wind.
 (https://youtu.be/d0iSoyw_btI?t=191)

Vote count 1.8

faust (1): DatSwan
Robz888 (2): IDontPlayThisGame, EFHW
McMcsalot (1): Galzria
EFHW (2): mcmcsalot, SpaceAnemone
IDontPlayThisGame (2): Robz888, The_Wine_Merchant
The_Wine_Merchant (1): faust
DatSwan (2): gkrieg13, 2.71828...

not voting (2): Cuzz, O

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends Monday, April 9 at 9pm forum time. like less than 2 days!!!

mod gnote: I'm Doing One
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: O on April 07, 2018, 10:37:10 pm
vote: Robz

Bad Lynch: Would Lynch: Want to Lynch post feels scummy to me
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: EFHW on April 07, 2018, 10:46:47 pm
vote: Efhw
why?
You were a wagon I liked. To pull an Awaclus question that I think has validity at times, why shouldn't I vote for you?
Then you'll have a chance at lynching scum. If you have a more specific reason I could respond to that more directly.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: EFHW on April 07, 2018, 10:47:50 pm
vote: Efhw
why?
You were a wagon I liked. To pull an Awaclus question that I think has validity at times, why shouldn't I vote for you?
Then you'll have a chance at lynching scum. If you have a more specific reason I could respond to that more directly.
I realize you changed your vote already. But I wanted to answer.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Swowl on April 08, 2018, 12:48:11 am
vote: Efhw
why?
You were a wagon I liked. To pull an Awaclus question that I think has validity at times, why shouldn't I vote for you?

he could vote for you and still we could lynch skum.
Then you'll have a chance at lynching scum. If you have a more specific reason I could respond to that more directly.
I realize you changed your vote already. But I wanted to answer.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Swowl on April 08, 2018, 12:48:44 am
vote: Efhw
why?
You were a wagon I liked. To pull an Awaclus question that I think has validity at times, why shouldn't I vote for you?

he could vote for you and still we could lynch skum.

Then you'll have a chance at lynching scum. If you have a more specific reason I could respond to that more directly.
I realize you changed your vote already. But I wanted to answer.

i suck. its in bold.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Swowl on April 08, 2018, 12:50:22 am
vote: Efhw
why?
You were a wagon I liked. To pull an Awaclus question that I think has validity at times, why shouldn't I vote for you?
Then you'll have a chance at lynching scum. If you have a more specific reason I could respond to that more directly.

also like... I never do this.. but I feel like all Skum would be sure to say "Then we'll have a chance at lynch skum". A small thing - but still.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Swowl on April 08, 2018, 12:59:16 am
Please excuse me for being concerned that scum have been picking up easy, consequence-free mislynches. I forgot random lynching is the best way to win this game.

So this is totally not the point.. but I mean Day 1 in a 13 player game skum undoubtedly has the upper hand at its purest. Everything for town is based off of reads (because no flips yet) and no town has a way of knowing who the other town players are.

I am by comparison to this crowd, newer to this game... but I kind of assumed this was the whole reason for RVS? Kind of the whole "random chance may actually be equal to or better then informed decisions" at this point in the game because the informed decisions are biased by the bad guys.

Regardless, that is more of just me asking a question I have been meaning to for some time - The important part would be IDP stating "consequence-free mislynches". Bull. If you are Town then you don't know anyone's alignment on Day 1. But Day "x" down the road... these factors come into play. Are you just pretending like that is not a thing? Are you promoting a world in which you believe we actually have a better than break even chance at finding Skum on a regular basis Day 1?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Swowl on April 08, 2018, 01:00:33 am
also - is anyone else willing to get on the Faust (or Galz) train with me?
If not I need some reasons that don't suck for other options.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 08, 2018, 01:22:55 am
vote: IDPTG
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 08, 2018, 01:23:23 am
I'm going to be slightly VLA tomorrow, but hopefully by the time I'm back everyone should have said enough to make thorough re-reads useful. I've just got my vote-counter up and running for this game, so here are the post counts since the game started, in case anyone's curious on the back of what e was saying:

Cuzz: 3.
DatSwan: 8.
IDontPlayThisGame: 13.
SpaceAnemone: 13.
EFHW: 15.
Galzria: 17.
O: 18.
Robz888: 18.
mcmcsalot: 18.
gkrieg13: 22.
The_Wine_Merchant: 34.
2.71828.....: 37.
faust: 44.

That seems pretty much right for most people, though I feel surprised that gkrieg's been that present, and that I haven't posted more than EFHW.

PPE: Robz has posted once more since I ran the count...

I havenít been in a game in what seems to me like forever
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: mcmcsalot on April 08, 2018, 02:02:04 am
Celebrating, will catch up.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 08, 2018, 03:01:52 am
Vote: IDPTG

I like DatSwan's burst of activity.

Would also like a space lynch but I doubt people will go for that
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: faust on April 08, 2018, 03:17:27 am
This looks promising. Vote: Idplay

Though I am quite confused that e and gkrieg, two people who have previously defended Idplay, are now voting for him. Do you want to give us an explanation of what changed your mind?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: faust on April 08, 2018, 04:10:27 am
Please excuse me for being concerned that scum have been picking up easy, consequence-free mislynches. I forgot random lynching is the best way to win this game.

So this is totally not the point.. but I mean Day 1 in a 13 player game skum undoubtedly has the upper hand at its purest. Everything for town is based off of reads (because no flips yet) and no town has a way of knowing who the other town players are.

I am by comparison to this crowd, newer to this game... but I kind of assumed this was the whole reason for RVS? Kind of the whole "random chance may actually be equal to or better then informed decisions" at this point in the game because the informed decisions are biased by the bad guys.
Not really... I mean that way we would just have the whole game be RVS. I think that a town that is putting in decent work can achieve above-random chances of lynching a scum. Those chances however will still be a good bit below 50%, so it might feel as though it's not worth it.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: EFHW on April 08, 2018, 08:25:01 am
vote: Efhw
why?
You were a wagon I liked. To pull an Awaclus question that I think has validity at times, why shouldn't I vote for you?
Then you'll have a chance at lynching scum. If you have a more specific reason I could respond to that more directly.

also like... I never do this.. but I feel like all Skum would be sure to say "Then we'll have a chance at lynch skum". A small thing - but still.
It was a singular you.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: EFHW on April 08, 2018, 08:26:32 am
The day is actually drawing very quickly to an end. We need a real wagon. Willing to listen to cases that I like

Faust and Galz are normally both far more aggressive when aligned with Town.

Robz saying I am an ok lynch after only nonsense reasons have been posted is skummy. I get that you are the one posting those nonsense reasons, but as I don't think you are skum I am going to hope you are aware of that.

I'll get back to you if I find more.
Why don't you think Robz is scum?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 08, 2018, 12:19:42 pm
This looks promising. Vote: Idplay

Though I am quite confused that e and gkrieg, two people who have previously defended Idplay, are now voting for him. Do you want to give us an explanation of what changed your mind?

That defense was 3 days ago for me (2 I guess when I switched up my vote) and while other players like Robz and Datswan have posted stuff that make me think they could be town, IDPTG has stagnated in place. And while doing nothing to prove you are town does not mean you are scum, it's as good a place as any to look D1.

So PoE
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: EFHW on April 08, 2018, 12:39:47 pm
I haven't played many games with IDPTG, but my impression is that he gets mislynched all the time for the same things that people are noticing here. Is there something new anyone has pointed to?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: faust on April 08, 2018, 12:46:33 pm
I haven't played many games with IDPTG, but my impression is that he gets mislynched all the time for the same things that people are noticing here. Is there something new anyone has pointed to?
Can you be a bit more precise?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on April 08, 2018, 12:50:36 pm
Was going to say a thing, but I'll wait until faust's question is answered. I've skimmed since my last post and will read it fully later.

PPE: 1
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 08, 2018, 12:54:19 pm
Was going to say a thing, but I'll wait until faust's question is answered. I've skimmed since my last post and will read it fully later.

PPE: 1

Why not say the thing now? I have always wondered this. If you have something to say, say it. Or are you trying to entrap scum with some uber-special plot based on the answer to one question?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: EFHW on April 08, 2018, 12:56:02 pm
vote: Robz

Bad Lynch: Would Lynch: Want to Lynch post feels scummy to me
For some reason I can't find this post. Can you point to it?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 08, 2018, 01:00:33 pm
I have a soft spot for people who just post what they are thinking, despite if it "looks good" or not.

For example, I commented on Robz' early game vote moves and his response was that he was "provoking people" seemed very honest and townie. I always get the sense that scum would not be so laissez faire about posts like that.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 08, 2018, 01:01:02 pm
And then I end up reading all the scum as town....
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: EFHW on April 08, 2018, 01:07:23 pm
I haven't played many games with IDPTG, but my impression is that he gets mislynched all the time for the same things that people are noticing here. Is there something new anyone has pointed to?
Can you be a bit more precise?

This was your initial case on him:
I even have a case:

- Idplay is lurking
- he has not posted any content, instead his posts are only vague criticisms of other people's reads and playstyles, which does not help the game at all
- he's keeping an RVS vote on a major wagon without clarifying whether it's serious now.

You later added dissatisfaction with his lurker arguments. I would add sarcasm to the list. But I don't think anything here is any different from how he usually plays. Scum are always going to focus on the easy mislynches.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on April 08, 2018, 01:33:32 pm
The thing I was going to say before:

EFHW, I don't think we've played together much, so I'll give you a very brief history. I've been lynched twice- once as scum D1 and once as town D1. The only time I've been NK'd was when I was an IC (I'm not counting the Weak Visitor game where scum!gkrieg messed with my targeting to get me killed). People do bring up the things they've brought up here most games though.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: faust on April 08, 2018, 01:40:06 pm
I haven't played many games with IDPTG, but my impression is that he gets mislynched all the time for the same things that people are noticing here. Is there something new anyone has pointed to?
Can you be a bit more precise?

This was your initial case on him:
I even have a case:

- Idplay is lurking
- he has not posted any content, instead his posts are only vague criticisms of other people's reads and playstyles, which does not help the game at all
- he's keeping an RVS vote on a major wagon without clarifying whether it's serious now.

You later added dissatisfaction with his lurker arguments. I would add sarcasm to the list. But I don't think anything here is any different from how he usually plays. Scum are always going to focus on the easy mislynches.
Can you point me to the game where Idplay was mislynched for keeping an RVS vote on a wagon?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on April 08, 2018, 01:56:52 pm
I haven't played many games with IDPTG, but my impression is that he gets mislynched all the time for the same things that people are noticing here. Is there something new anyone has pointed to?
Can you be a bit more precise?

This was your initial case on him:
I even have a case:

- Idplay is lurking
- he has not posted any content, instead his posts are only vague criticisms of other people's reads and playstyles, which does not help the game at all
- he's keeping an RVS vote on a major wagon without clarifying whether it's serious now.

You later added dissatisfaction with his lurker arguments. I would add sarcasm to the list. But I don't think anything here is any different from how he usually plays. Scum are always going to focus on the easy mislynches.
Can you point me to the game where Idplay was mislynched for keeping an RVS vote on a wagon?

Oh look. From the game where I was mislynched (M108, LOST Mafia):

I guess we need to be moving in a different direction with this game.

Also, unvote. Not actually interested in a LaLight wagon at this time.
Vote: Idplay for this convenient jumpoff.

faust voting me because I moved an RVS vote when a LaLight wagon formed. Make up your mind.

I guess we need to be moving in a different direction with this game.

Also, unvote. Not actually interested in a LaLight wagon at this time.
Vote: Idplay for this convenient jumpoff.

Or maybe I don't like it when my RVS vote is on a wagon that's forming.
??? Then why even RVS vote? Wagons are like the only useful thing to come out of that.

Wait, so hold on. I'm supposed to leave my vote when the wagon forms? Wow. This game is confusing. Because you already listed me not moving my vote as part of your case against me.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: IDontPlayThisGame on April 08, 2018, 01:57:24 pm
And with that, I'm going to focus on my job application and get back to this game later.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: faust on April 08, 2018, 02:15:33 pm
Wait, so hold on. I'm supposed to leave my vote when the wagon forms? Wow. This game is confusing. Because you already listed me not moving my vote as part of your case against me.
You're supposed to participate in the game. I still don't know any of what you think about the game except that you scumread Robz, and that I have only learned after pressuring you.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: faust on April 08, 2018, 02:17:42 pm
That said, vote: gkrieg
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: EFHW on April 08, 2018, 03:43:34 pm
Wait, so hold on. I'm supposed to leave my vote when the wagon forms? Wow. This game is confusing. Because you already listed me not moving my vote as part of your case against me.
You're supposed to participate in the game. I still don't know any of what you think about the game except that you scumread Robz, and that I have only learned after pressuring you.
It is not great town play to leave your RVS vote up once a number of serious votes have been made.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Robz888 on April 08, 2018, 05:56:38 pm
That said, vote: gkrieg

Faust trying to distract from the IDPTG wagon.

Noted.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: O on April 08, 2018, 06:10:51 pm
@Robz

Why did you only scrounge up three reads in a Won't Lynch: Could Lynch: Want to Lynch format? isn't that a little too precise?

It feels like scum marking off the check boxes of "reads in each category" and then stopping there because committing more reads is worse as scum than as town.

Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: EFHW on April 08, 2018, 06:33:27 pm
That said, vote: gkrieg

Faust trying to distract from the IDPTG wagon.

Noted.
I'm confused. faust has been pushing the idptg wagon. Why would he do that if he wanted to distract from it?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 08, 2018, 07:12:21 pm
This looks promising. Vote: Idplay

Though I am quite confused that e and gkrieg, two people who have previously defended Idplay, are now voting for him. Do you want to give us an explanation of what changed your mind?

He sounded a lot scummier in the few posts before my vote.  He still sounds scummy in his defense.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 08, 2018, 07:13:21 pm
EFHW seems town this game.  I feel like I can usually read her pretty well, and I haven't gotten the scummy vibes yet.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 08, 2018, 07:13:47 pm
That said, vote: gkrieg

?  Are you saying that I'm not participating in the game?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 08, 2018, 07:14:41 pm
Wait, so hold on. I'm supposed to leave my vote when the wagon forms? Wow. This game is confusing. Because you already listed me not moving my vote as part of your case against me.
You're supposed to participate in the game. I still don't know any of what you think about the game except that you scumread Robz, and that I have only learned after pressuring you.
It is not great town play to leave your RVS vote up once a number of serious votes have been made.

It also isn't very good scum play though.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on April 08, 2018, 07:37:22 pm
Celebrating, will catch up.

This too :-) It was my birthday today (well, yesterday in my own timezone now, but still today forum time!), and while I've read the thread, I'm too sleepy to go from reading words to forming opinions. I have booked the morning off work to recover from a busy weekend, though!
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Swowl on April 08, 2018, 07:43:28 pm
The day is actually drawing very quickly to an end. We need a real wagon. Willing to listen to cases that I like

Faust and Galz are normally both far more aggressive when aligned with Town.

Robz saying I am an ok lynch after only nonsense reasons have been posted is skummy. I get that you are the one posting those nonsense reasons, but as I don't think you are skum I am going to hope you are aware of that.

I'll get back to you if I find more.
Why don't you think Robz is scum?

re read post please. States that I find Robz Skummy. Or are you asking why he was separated from the Faust/Galz list?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Swowl on April 08, 2018, 07:43:58 pm
Celebrating, will catch up.

This too :-) It was my birthday today (well, yesterday in my own timezone now, but still today forum time!), and while I've read the thread, I'm too sleepy to go from reading words to forming opinions. I have booked the morning off work to recover from a busy weekend, though!

HBD!
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Robz888 on April 08, 2018, 07:46:54 pm
@Robz

Why did you only scrounge up three reads in a Won't Lynch: Could Lynch: Want to Lynch format? isn't that a little too precise?

It feels like scum marking off the check boxes of "reads in each category" and then stopping there because committing more reads is worse as scum than as town.

Those seemed relevant to the current conversation and I didnít have other thoughts to share. I generally try not to say things unless I actually have something to say. Clutter is anti town.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 08, 2018, 07:49:18 pm
Celebrating, will catch up.

This too :-) It was my birthday today (well, yesterday in my own timezone now, but still today forum time!), and while I've read the thread, I'm too sleepy to go from reading words to forming opinions. I have booked the morning off work to recover from a busy weekend, though!

Happy Birthday Space!
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 08, 2018, 07:49:32 pm
Celebrating, will catch up.

This too :-) It was my birthday today (well, yesterday in my own timezone now, but still today forum time!), and while I've read the thread, I'm too sleepy to go from reading words to forming opinions. I have booked the morning off work to recover from a busy weekend, though!

Happy Birthday Space!
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: EFHW on April 08, 2018, 09:48:43 pm
The day is actually drawing very quickly to an end. We need a real wagon. Willing to listen to cases that I like

Faust and Galz are normally both far more aggressive when aligned with Town.

Robz saying I am an ok lynch after only nonsense reasons have been posted is skummy. I get that you are the one posting those nonsense reasons, but as I don't think you are skum I am going to hope you are aware of that.

I'll get back to you if I find more.
Why don't you think Robz is scum?

re read post please. States that I find Robz Skummy. Or are you asking why he was separated from the Faust/Galz list?
Oh, I see, the "you" was e.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: schadd on April 08, 2018, 10:17:00 pm

Oh, I'll be your fighter and you'll be my mirror.
And you'll be all right because I'll be right here.
Oh kid, now I'm not going anywhere.
I swear I'll try to not be going anywhere.
 (https://youtu.be/d0iSoyw_btI?t=205)

Vote count 1.9

faust (1): DatSwan
Robz888 (3): IDontPlayThisGame, EFHW, O
McMcsalot (1): Galzria
EFHW (2): mcmcsalot, SpaceAnemone
IDontPlayThisGame (4): Robz888, The_Wine_Merchant, 2.71828..., gkrieg13
gkrieg13 (1): faust

not voting (1): Cuzz

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends Monday, April 9 at 9pm forum time. 23 hr!!!!

mod gnote: It's Me Again
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Cuzz on April 08, 2018, 10:47:19 pm
@Robz

Why did you only scrounge up three reads in a Won't Lynch: Could Lynch: Want to Lynch format? isn't that a little too precise?

It feels like scum marking off the check boxes of "reads in each category" and then stopping there because committing more reads is worse as scum than as town.

Those seemed relevant to the current conversation and I didnít have other thoughts to share. I generally try not to say things unless I actually have something to say. Clutter is anti town.

Seems townish from Robz, and I completely disagree with Os last part of his post. Not sure if thatís scummy from O though.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 08, 2018, 10:53:11 pm
That said, vote: gkrieg
I don't think this vote was counted.

I also don't see the purpose of it at this point in the game.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: schadd on April 08, 2018, 11:06:03 pm

Oh, I'll be your fighter and you'll be my mirror.
And you'll be all right because I'll be right here.
Oh kid, now I'm not going anywhere.
I swear I'll try to not be going anywhere.
 (https://youtu.be/d0iSoyw_btI?t=205)

Vote count 1.9.Oups

faust (1): DatSwan
Robz888 (3): IDontPlayThisGame, EFHW, O
McMcsalot (1): Galzria
EFHW (2): mcmcsalot, SpaceAnemone
IDontPlayThisGame (4): Robz888, The_Wine_Merchant, 2.71828..., gkrieg13
gkrieg13 (1): faust

not voting (1): Cuzz

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends Monday, April 9 at 9pm forum time. 22 hr!!!!

mod gnote: Oups
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: faust on April 09, 2018, 12:39:50 am
I think right now I'm on the edge with Galzria, TWM, and Datswan.  As in, I think they are scummy, in that I don't think they have done anything townie.
But Idplay has?

I thought his defense was townie in that he tried to defend himself, instead of just fading into the background.

This is where gkrieg thinks Idplay is town. Then apparently Idplay posts scummy things, and gkrieg changes his mind. These are the posts in question:

I am seriously confused by the amount of defense Idplay is getting for showing the tiniest amount of work. But some of those defending him have to be town... I don't get at all how you could feel so strongly about Idplay.

I saw Gkrieg's one, which basically echos what I think, which is that IDP is freakily invisible because of the lack of avatar.

Is my lack of avatar really that big of a deal? You can just say you don't remember me. I won't be insulted.

Please excuse me for being concerned that scum have been picking up easy, consequence-free mislynches. I forgot random lynching is the best way to win this game.

I get the rabbit hole this goes down, but can we please either acknowledge that lurker lynches are more policy driven than success driven or make an argument that scum has been lurking?

gkrieg, can you elaborate on how they are scummy?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: faust on April 09, 2018, 12:45:41 am
That said, vote: gkrieg

Faust trying to distract from the IDPTG wagon.

Noted.
Yes I am. I think Idplay has been townie recently, so I'm not too interested in that lynch anymore.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Swowl on April 09, 2018, 03:21:24 am
No real wagons at this poin means skum is comfy. I am removing cuzz from the equation for now bc no content.

Single vote candidates should present a list of players that create a good skum Pool: that would be Faust, Galz, mcmc, and space.

I want to lynch here - anyone else feeling that vibe?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Swowl on April 09, 2018, 03:28:41 am
also this is how skum!galz would play this in a situation where there are a lot of town wagons. They would disappear. I have played games with him where they randomly claim Vt (twice) games where they call out over confident players (normally ends up being Faust but whatever that point aside), games where they fake claim PRs. All of which are Town flips.

Letís take a good chance on this one and lynch Galz. Is anyone on board with that?

Vote: Galz
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: faust on April 09, 2018, 03:31:18 am
Single vote candidates should present a list of players that create a good skum Pool: that would be Faust, Galz, mcmc, and space.
Here is a list of players that would make decent lynches:

gkrieg, e, EFHW, Space, Cuzz
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: faust on April 09, 2018, 03:34:24 am
Single vote candidates should present a list of players that create a good skum Pool: that would be Faust, Galz, mcmc, and space.
Here is a list of players that would make decent lynches:

gkrieg, e, EFHW, Space, Cuzz
I forgot the reason why I don't want to lynch EFHW. She still rubs me the wrong way, and she has more than one vote, so I guess I'm keeping her in this pool.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: faust on April 09, 2018, 03:34:42 am
Letís take a good chance on this one and lynch Galz. Is anyone on board with that?

Vote: Galz

I still think
Galzria is a terrible lynch.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Swowl on April 09, 2018, 03:50:55 am
Letís take a good chance on this one and lynch Galz. Is anyone on board with that?

Vote: Galz

I still think
Galzria is a terrible lynch.

Why?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Swowl on April 09, 2018, 04:07:07 am
Also why is cuzz on your list? What is it  they  said that is  skummy to you
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Swowl on April 09, 2018, 04:08:12 am
EFHW - other than your current - who is skummy to you?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: faust on April 09, 2018, 04:12:31 am
Also why is cuzz on your list? What is it  they  said that is  skummy to you
He hasn't done anything townie, and there is more pressure to replace an absent scum than an absent town.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: faust on April 09, 2018, 04:15:25 am
Letís take a good chance on this one and lynch Galz. Is anyone on board with that?

Vote: Galz

I still think
Galzria is a terrible lynch.

Why?
Because he's a strong player that for some reason still usually gets a lot of heat on early days. It is the dream mislynch for scum. I would much rather evaluate Galzria's play in 2 days time if he's still alive by then.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: EFHW on April 09, 2018, 04:54:07 am
EFHW - other than your current - who is skummy to you?
I have an actual basis for my suspicion of Robz. Anyone else is guesswork, but I'd say e, gkrieg, mcmc?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: EFHW on April 09, 2018, 05:09:27 am
No real wagons at this poin means skum is comfy. I am removing cuzz from the equation for now bc no content.

Single vote candidates should present a list of players that create a good skum Pool: that would be Faust, Galz, mcmc, and space.

I want to lynch here - anyone else feeling that vibe?
I don't agree with this reasoning.  Town needs to start consolidating votes, but I don't think people with just one vote are more likely to be scum.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: EFHW on April 09, 2018, 05:19:57 am
Single vote candidates should present a list of players that create a good skum Pool: that would be Faust, Galz, mcmc, and space.
Here is a list of players that would make decent lynches:

gkrieg, e, EFHW, Space, Cuzz
I forgot the reason why I don't want to lynch EFHW. She still rubs me the wrong way, and she has more than one vote, so I guess I'm keeping her in this pool.
Because I conflated e and Galzria.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: iguanaiguana on April 09, 2018, 08:41:55 am

Though it's not all right. It is so far from all right.
We'll make it into a choice somehow.
I don't know how, but you'll have a choice somehow.
 (https://youtu.be/d0iSoyw_btI?t=223)

Vote count 1.10

Robz888 (3): IDontPlayThisGame, EFHW, O
McMcsalot (1): Galzria
EFHW (2): mcmcsalot, SpaceAnemone
IDontPlayThisGame (4): Robz888, The_Wine_Merchant, gkrieg13, 2.71828...
gkrieg13 (1): faust
Galzria (1): DatSwan

not voting (2): Cuzz

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends Monday, April 9 at 9pm forum time. That is 12 hours and ~15 minutes from now.

mod note: added song lyrics to the last 5 vote counts. Which means all the best lyrics are up that way ^
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 09, 2018, 09:04:00 am
EFHW - other than your current - who is skummy to you?
I have an actual basis for my suspicion of Robz. Anyone else is guesswork, but I'd say e, gkrieg, mcmc?
vote: 2.7
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: EFHW on April 09, 2018, 09:15:37 am
Can you fix vote count 1.9? gkrieg should be voting IDPTG. Thanks.

I did change it. If there's any other mistakes somewhere let me know!
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: EFHW on April 09, 2018, 09:16:56 am
Can you fix vote count 1.9? gkrieg should be voting IDPTG. Thanks.

I see it was fixed later, but it's less confusing to have the official vote count be correct.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: faust on April 09, 2018, 09:22:58 am
EFHW - other than your current - who is skummy to you?
I have an actual basis for my suspicion of Robz. Anyone else is guesswork, but I'd say e, gkrieg, mcmc?
vote: 2.7

So... what's up with

That said, vote: gkrieg
I don't think this vote was counted.

I also don't see the purpose of it at this point in the game.
?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 09, 2018, 09:26:18 am
I had not seen anyone express any interest in gkrieg lynch.

Multiple people have said 2.7 but no one had started it.

Feel the two situations are different.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: faust on April 09, 2018, 09:41:00 am
So why should I vote for e?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 09, 2018, 10:24:30 am
I had not seen anyone express any interest in gkrieg lynch.

Multiple people have said 2.7 but no one had started it.

Feel the two situations are different.

You mean that you have said it multiple times, not multiple people
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: iguanaiguana on April 09, 2018, 10:38:28 am
Can you fix vote count 1.9? gkrieg should be voting IDPTG. Thanks.

I did change it. If there's any other mistakes somewhere let me know!

Meant to quote this, not modify it. I'm not schadd, just clumsy
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: EFHW on April 09, 2018, 10:54:18 am
I had not seen anyone express any interest in gkrieg lynch.

Multiple people have said 2.7 but no one had started it.

Feel the two situations are different.

faust and I both said gkrieg and e.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: EFHW on April 09, 2018, 10:56:22 am
Can you fix vote count 1.9? gkrieg should be voting IDPTG. Thanks.

I did change it. If there's any other mistakes somewhere let me know!

Meant to quote this, not modify it. I'm not schadd, just clumsy
I think it is still wrong. faust should be voting gkrieg and gkrieg should be voting IDPTG.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 09, 2018, 11:05:31 am
I had not seen anyone express any interest in gkrieg lynch.

Multiple people have said 2.7 but no one had started it.

Feel the two situations are different.

faust and I both said gkrieg and e.

In passing in a list of potential D1 lynches. You were never like, "let's lynch e" directly as TWM has done twice now
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: faust on April 09, 2018, 11:08:35 am
So let's talk gkrieg. He's provided the first reason to suspect him himself:

Hey mcmc this game has been going for half a day already: more than enough time for you to tell us if gkrieg is scum.

Is he?

Also after the Space Alert game, I decided that I was going to take a long break, but couldn't stay away.  I would've been much less keen to play this game as scum, and would be lurking a lot harder.
Now gkrieg isn't exactly lurking, but there certainly is a lack of effort. Most of his posts are one-liners without much substance. It feels like he is artificially keeping his activity level up.

We also have this:
Faust is being pestering and playing both sides. I think that means he is probably town?

Ugh.. I appreciate your calm behaviour, in that people getting genuinely angry in-thread isn't nice, but I can pretty much feel a careless shrug in your words there.

Why is inconsistent!faust prob!town for "playing both sides" -- isn't that exactly how scum work to find a likely wagon for a mislynch?

I agree with Space here.  vote: faust
Although I would much rather lynch a lurker than faust D1.
So he would rather lynch someone else, but still votes for me?

And this:
I think right now I'm on the edge with Galzria, TWM, and Datswan.  As in, I think they are scummy, in that I don't think they have done anything townie.
But Idplay has?

I thought his defense was townie in that he tried to defend himself, instead of just fading into the background.
This looks promising. Vote: Idplay

Though I am quite confused that e and gkrieg, two people who have previously defended Idplay, are now voting for him. Do you want to give us an explanation of what changed your mind?

He sounded a lot scummier in the few posts before my vote.  He still sounds scummy in his defense.
First the defense is townie, then it is scummy.

Now contradictions aren't necessarily scummy, but they indicate a lack of involvement in the game. Which again fits the theory that scum!gkrieg would not be very motivated for this game.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 09, 2018, 11:16:51 am
Letís take a good chance on this one and lynch Galz. Is anyone on board with that?

Vote: Galz

I still think
Galzria is a terrible lynch.

Why?
Because he's a strong player that for some reason still usually gets a lot of heat on early days. It is the dream mislynch for scum. I would much rather evaluate Galzria's play in 2 days time if he's still alive by then.

Does this not apply at all to me?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: faust on April 09, 2018, 11:20:55 am
Letís take a good chance on this one and lynch Galz. Is anyone on board with that?

Vote: Galz

I still think
Galzria is a terrible lynch.

Why?
Because he's a strong player that for some reason still usually gets a lot of heat on early days. It is the dream mislynch for scum. I would much rather evaluate Galzria's play in 2 days time if he's still alive by then.

Does this not apply at all to me?
Well for me personally you just don't look as scary. It's entirely possible that that's just my bias because Galrzia was here way before I started and I still remember your first games.

Also I don't feel like you are a particularly popular target for D1 wagons. Am I wrong?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Robz888 on April 09, 2018, 11:28:47 am
Can you fix vote count 1.9? gkrieg should be voting IDPTG. Thanks.

I did change it. If there's any other mistakes somewhere let me know!

Meant to quote this, not modify it. I'm not schadd, just clumsy
I think it is still wrong. faust should be voting gkrieg and gkrieg should be voting IDPTG.

This probably isn't going to be a popular thing to say, but I suspect scum is more likely to point out vote counter corrections.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: faust on April 09, 2018, 11:30:54 am
Can you fix vote count 1.9? gkrieg should be voting IDPTG. Thanks.

I did change it. If there's any other mistakes somewhere let me know!

Meant to quote this, not modify it. I'm not schadd, just clumsy
I think it is still wrong. faust should be voting gkrieg and gkrieg should be voting IDPTG.

This probably isn't going to be a popular thing to say, but I suspect scum is more likely to point out vote counter corrections.
Dunno. I have been scum worried about that kind of thing and in order to not look suspicious for correcting the vote count on a partner I have pointed it out in my QT.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: iguanaiguana on April 09, 2018, 11:39:26 am
Can you fix vote count 1.9? gkrieg should be voting IDPTG. Thanks.

I did change it. If there's any other mistakes somewhere let me know!

Meant to quote this, not modify it. I'm not schadd, just clumsy
I think it is still wrong. faust should be voting gkrieg and gkrieg should be voting IDPTG.

Fixed, sorry. I saw 1.9.Oups but not 1.9 when I was going through.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: EFHW on April 09, 2018, 12:18:54 pm
I had not seen anyone express any interest in gkrieg lynch.

Multiple people have said 2.7 but no one had started it.

Feel the two situations are different.

faust and I both said gkrieg and e.

In passing in a list of potential D1 lynches. You were never like, "let's lynch e" directly as TWM has done twice now
What I mean is that his reasons for choosing you also apply to gkrieg. More, since faust had actually voted gkrieg.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: EFHW on April 09, 2018, 12:22:51 pm
I had not seen anyone express any interest in gkrieg lynch.

Multiple people have said 2.7 but no one had started it.

Feel the two situations are different.
Why not Robz?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 09, 2018, 01:20:09 pm
So let's talk gkrieg. He's provided the first reason to suspect him himself:

Hey mcmc this game has been going for half a day already: more than enough time for you to tell us if gkrieg is scum.

Is he?

Also after the Space Alert game, I decided that I was going to take a long break, but couldn't stay away.  I would've been much less keen to play this game as scum, and would be lurking a lot harder.
Now gkrieg isn't exactly lurking, but there certainly is a lack of effort. Most of his posts are one-liners without much substance. It feels like he is artificially keeping his activity level up.

We also have this:
Faust is being pestering and playing both sides. I think that means he is probably town?

Ugh.. I appreciate your calm behaviour, in that people getting genuinely angry in-thread isn't nice, but I can pretty much feel a careless shrug in your words there.

Why is inconsistent!faust prob!town for "playing both sides" -- isn't that exactly how scum work to find a likely wagon for a mislynch?

I agree with Space here.  vote: faust
Although I would much rather lynch a lurker than faust D1.
So he would rather lynch someone else, but still votes for me?

And this:
I think right now I'm on the edge with Galzria, TWM, and Datswan.  As in, I think they are scummy, in that I don't think they have done anything townie.
But Idplay has?

I thought his defense was townie in that he tried to defend himself, instead of just fading into the background.
This looks promising. Vote: Idplay

Though I am quite confused that e and gkrieg, two people who have previously defended Idplay, are now voting for him. Do you want to give us an explanation of what changed your mind?

He sounded a lot scummier in the few posts before my vote.  He still sounds scummy in his defense.
First the defense is townie, then it is scummy.

Now contradictions aren't necessarily scummy, but they indicate a lack of involvement in the game. Which again fits the theory that scum!gkrieg would not be very motivated for this game.

I wouldn't say that I've been lurking, or "not putting much effort" into this game at all.  Having short posts doesn't at all mean that I'm not putting much effort into this game.

I thought IDPTG's first defense was townie, but then he wasn't giving a townie defense of himself in the second part of his post.  Are you saying that I'm scummy for changing my mind?

I think you (faust) have been scummy today.  I would rather lynch someone else D1 (as you have also pointed out that you want to lynch a lurker), because I think I will be able to tell in later days if you are scum or not.  That is why I would rather lynch someone else, even when I was voting for you.

You are treating my posts like they all happened at one point in time.  It is clear if you actually go over the stuff in context that I thought that IDPTG had a townie defense, then time went on, he posted some more stuff, and I didn't think he was townie anymore.  You are trying to find inconsistencies where there aren't any.  This case is legitimately bad and very misleading as to what I've actually done this game so far.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 09, 2018, 01:21:20 pm
Letís take a good chance on this one and lynch Galz. Is anyone on board with that?

Vote: Galz

I still think
Galzria is a terrible lynch.

Why?
Because he's a strong player that for some reason still usually gets a lot of heat on early days. It is the dream mislynch for scum. I would much rather evaluate Galzria's play in 2 days time if he's still alive by then.

Does this not apply at all to me?
Well for me personally you just don't look as scary. It's entirely possible that that's just my bias because Galrzia was here way before I started and I still remember your first games.

Also I don't feel like you are a particularly popular target for D1 wagons. Am I wrong?

I pretty consistently get D1 wagons. 
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 09, 2018, 01:22:19 pm
Letís take a good chance on this one and lynch Galz. Is anyone on board with that?

Vote: Galz

I still think
Galzria is a terrible lynch.

Why?
Because he's a strong player that for some reason still usually gets a lot of heat on early days. It is the dream mislynch for scum. I would much rather evaluate Galzria's play in 2 days time if he's still alive by then.

Does this not apply at all to me?
Well for me personally you just don't look as scary. It's entirely possible that that's just my bias because Galrzia was here way before I started and I still remember your first games.

Also I don't feel like you are a particularly popular target for D1 wagons. Am I wrong?

I pretty consistently get D1 wagons.

But also you don't think I'm a good mislynch for scum D1?  It is pretty well-known that I shine a lot more in later days than I do D1.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: faust on April 09, 2018, 01:24:06 pm
I thought IDPTG's first defense was townie, but then he wasn't giving a townie defense of himself in the second part of his post.  Are you saying that I'm scummy for changing my mind?
Idplay has not defended himself in between the post where you called him scummy townie and the post where you voted for him, so what are you talking about?
[/quote]
EBWOP
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Robz888 on April 09, 2018, 01:52:52 pm
Gkrieg is an incredibly popular Day 1 lynch. We should wait to consider lynching him in part because mcmc is a freaking expert at eventually telling us whether gkrieg is scum.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 09, 2018, 02:09:42 pm
I thought IDPTG's first defense was townie, but then he wasn't giving a townie defense of himself in the second part of his post.  Are you saying that I'm scummy for changing my mind?
Idplay has not defended himself in between the post where you called him scummy townie and the post where you voted for him, so what are you talking about?
EBWOP

Please excuse me for being concerned that scum have been picking up easy, consequence-free mislynches. I forgot random lynching is the best way to win this game.

He posted this, which I thought was scummy, and is defending himself.  He has two other posts between this and when I thought he was townie, that I also thought were scummy.  He is being hyperdefensive in a scummy way.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 09, 2018, 02:10:28 pm
Gkrieg is an incredibly popular Day 1 lynch. We should wait to consider lynching him in part because mcmc is a freaking expert at eventually telling us whether gkrieg is scum.

I feel like you are trying to pre-frame me for when mcmc dies tonight.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Robz888 on April 09, 2018, 02:11:01 pm
Gkrieg is an incredibly popular Day 1 lynch. We should wait to consider lynching him in part because mcmc is a freaking expert at eventually telling us whether gkrieg is scum.

I feel like you are trying to pre-frame me for when mcmc dies tonight.

Mwahahaha.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 09, 2018, 02:20:24 pm
So, 6.5 hours to lynch.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 09, 2018, 02:42:19 pm
So why should I vote for e?
To pull an awaclus again, why shouldn't you vote for e?

But to actually answer your question:

The first thing that made me want to vote for him was #264 for his O vote and his comment about Robz. Which made me look at him more and realize that I hadn't really remembered anything from him and am having a hard time keeping track of him.

After that I thought his response to my vote was interesting. I didn't provide reasons, and still haven't until now. But he has never been interested in why. I feel like town wants to know why but scum often just ignores it passively and hopes the reasons don't get brought up.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 09, 2018, 02:44:01 pm
I had not seen anyone express any interest in gkrieg lynch.

Multiple people have said 2.7 but no one had started it.

Feel the two situations are different.
Why not Robz?
Why are you specifically asking about Robz? I haven't been interested in a Robz lynch and seen only passing interest from others. I am not going to create a wagon on someone that I don't want to vote for.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 09, 2018, 02:45:27 pm
I had not seen anyone express any interest in gkrieg lynch.

Multiple people have said 2.7 but no one had started it.

Feel the two situations are different.

faust and I both said gkrieg and e.

In passing in a list of potential D1 lynches. You were never like, "let's lynch e" directly as TWM has done twice now
What I mean is that his reasons for choosing you also apply to gkrieg. More, since faust had actually voted gkrieg.
No they don't. I have had previous suspicion of 2.7. Not of gkrieg or Robz.

I voted for 2.7 because interest expressed by others coupled with my own previous suspicions. But no one appears to want to join me here? Even those who said they would consider it?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 09, 2018, 02:46:12 pm
Gkrieg is an incredibly popular Day 1 lynch. We should wait to consider lynching him in part because mcmc is a freaking expert at eventually telling us whether gkrieg is scum.
And we should trust mcmc because?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 09, 2018, 02:48:35 pm
And vote: IDPTG but I should be back again in a few and then back again before deadline.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: faust on April 09, 2018, 02:57:30 pm
Request prod on Galzria
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: faust on April 09, 2018, 02:58:33 pm
I don't like any of our waons. Can we please start some other wagon? It doesn't have to be gkrieg; I'm flexible. But I'm not around for much longer.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 09, 2018, 03:01:07 pm
I don't like any of our waons. Can we please start some other wagon? It doesn't have to be gkrieg; I'm flexible. But I'm not around for much longer.

I could lynch space if that interests you.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 09, 2018, 03:11:41 pm
I don't like any of our waons. Can we please start some other wagon? It doesn't have to be gkrieg; I'm flexible. But I'm not around for much longer.

Want to address anything that I said above?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: faust on April 09, 2018, 03:48:54 pm
I don't like any of our waons. Can we please start some other wagon? It doesn't have to be gkrieg; I'm flexible. But I'm not around for much longer.

Want to address anything that I said above?
Well you're right and I'm not particularly interested in your lynch anymore.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: faust on April 09, 2018, 03:49:46 pm
I don't like any of our waons. Can we please start some other wagon? It doesn't have to be gkrieg; I'm flexible. But I'm not around for much longer.

I could lynch space if that interests you.
Can do.

Vote: Space
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Galzria on April 09, 2018, 04:08:11 pm
Request prod on Galzria

I'm here, and will be until deadline. Monday's are good deadline days for me. I'll start to have some thoughts out there soon.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: faust on April 09, 2018, 04:11:41 pm
Request prod on Galzria

I'm here, and will be until deadline. Monday's are good deadline days for me. I'll start to have some thoughts out there soon.
Well I'm afraid I can't do anything with them anymore because I will go to bed now.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 09, 2018, 04:11:46 pm
Vote: Space

I will be around until the deadline and will assist with a suboptimal lynch if required.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 09, 2018, 04:18:44 pm
I don't like any of our waons. Can we please start some other wagon? It doesn't have to be gkrieg; I'm flexible. But I'm not around for much longer.

I don't like any of our waons. Can we please start some other wagon? It doesn't have to be gkrieg; I'm flexible. But I'm not around for much longer.

Want to address anything that I said above?
Well you're right and I'm not particularly interested in your lynch anymore.

These are the weirdest quotes from faust.  It shows that he either isn't interested in my posts, or skipped over them on accident.  The first would be scummy because he is putting out a case on me that I refute, and he doesn't even care what I have to say, which is weird from anyone, but especially from him.  The second obviously happens.

It is very strange behavior from faust, seeing as he is generally very rational, and how much he was behind my wagon until no one joined him. 

He is also choosing to park his vote on a wagon that is unlikely to go through, right before the deadline.  He is essentially voting no lynch, which is super scummy.  Especially considering he was one of the early people on the IDPTG wagon.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 09, 2018, 04:19:18 pm
Also I just hit 100 days logged in to this site....
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: faust on April 09, 2018, 04:22:33 pm
I don't like any of our waons. Can we please start some other wagon? It doesn't have to be gkrieg; I'm flexible. But I'm not around for much longer.

I don't like any of our waons. Can we please start some other wagon? It doesn't have to be gkrieg; I'm flexible. But I'm not around for much longer.

Want to address anything that I said above?
Well you're right and I'm not particularly interested in your lynch anymore.

These are the weirdest quotes from faust.  It shows that he either isn't interested in my posts, or skipped over them on accident.  The first would be scummy because he is putting out a case on me that I refute, and he doesn't even care what I have to say, which is weird from anyone, but especially from him.  The second obviously happens.

It is very strange behavior from faust, seeing as he is generally very rational, and how much he was behind my wagon until no one joined him. 

He is also choosing to park his vote on a wagon that is unlikely to go through, right before the deadline.  He is essentially voting no lynch, which is super scummy.  Especially considering he was one of the early people on the IDPTG wagon.
You thought you could start your smear campaign now that I'm gone, but I am still here. Ha! I am limited on time, so sorry for not responding in my usual slpendor. I am not scummy for Idplay, I have stated repeatedly that I think he's townie now.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Galzria on April 09, 2018, 04:23:00 pm
No real wagons at this poin means skum is comfy. I am removing cuzz from the equation for now bc no content.

Single vote candidates should present a list of players that create a good skum Pool: that would be Faust, Galz, mcmc, and space.

I want to lynch here - anyone else feeling that vibe?
I don't agree with this reasoning.  Town needs to start consolidating votes, but I don't think people with just one vote are more likely to be scum.

Starting here:

Datswan is absolutely wrong. Spread votes with no dominating wagons is horrible for scum as they have no sense of how best to control the town and thus are much less able dictate (and thus most likely to become) the end of day vote. Scum, when lynched D1, is almost always the result of a scramble to consensus, and never because they've been accumulating votes throughout the day.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Galzria on April 09, 2018, 04:27:07 pm

Though it's not all right. It is so far from all right.
We'll make it into a choice somehow.
I don't know how, but you'll have a choice somehow.
 (https://youtu.be/d0iSoyw_btI?t=223)

Vote count 1.10

Robz888 (3): IDontPlayThisGame, EFHW, O
McMcsalot (1): Galzria
EFHW (2): mcmcsalot, SpaceAnemone
IDontPlayThisGame (4): Robz888, The_Wine_Merchant, gkrieg13, 2.71828...
gkrieg13 (1): faust
Galzria (1): DatSwan

not voting (2): Cuzz

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends Monday, April 9 at 9pm forum time. That is 12 hours and ~15 minutes from now.

mod note: added song lyrics to the last 5 vote counts. Which means all the best lyrics are up that way ^

My last point is important because I believe will be the ones fretting most about consolidation at this point. Looking at the above vote count (I'll get to actual posts in a bit) I'm very much inclined to look away from IDPTG & Robz today, and instead look heavily at: EFHW, TWM, O, e & Gkrieg.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Galzria on April 09, 2018, 04:27:50 pm

Though it's not all right. It is so far from all right.
We'll make it into a choice somehow.
I don't know how, but you'll have a choice somehow.
 (https://youtu.be/d0iSoyw_btI?t=223)

Vote count 1.10

Robz888 (3): IDontPlayThisGame, EFHW, O
McMcsalot (1): Galzria
EFHW (2): mcmcsalot, SpaceAnemone
IDontPlayThisGame (4): Robz888, The_Wine_Merchant, gkrieg13, 2.71828...
gkrieg13 (1): faust
Galzria (1): DatSwan

not voting (2): Cuzz

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends Monday, April 9 at 9pm forum time. That is 12 hours and ~15 minutes from now.

mod note: added song lyrics to the last 5 vote counts. Which means all the best lyrics are up that way ^

My last point is important because I believe will be the ones fretting most about consolidation at this point. Looking at the above vote count (I'll get to actual posts in a bit) I'm very much inclined to look away from IDPTG & Robz today, and instead look heavily at: EFHW, TWM, O, e & Gkrieg.

***believe scum will be***

Phone posting, sorry.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: mcmcsalot on April 09, 2018, 04:43:03 pm
I am caught up.

Won't Lynch: TWM, IDP, Gkrieg, Faust, Datswan, Robz

Null: Galzria, 2.7, Cuzz, Space

Want to lynch: EFHW, O

Nothing  has really happened to lessen my early scumread of EFHW, and the fact that the wagon has risen and fallen the way is has makes me happy.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Robz888 on April 09, 2018, 04:56:41 pm
O is sort of an appealing lynch, if for no other reason than O is always scum.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 09, 2018, 05:12:44 pm
I am caught up.

Won't Lynch: TWM, IDP, Gkrieg, Faust, Datswan, Robz

Null: Galzria, 2.7, Cuzz, Space

Want to lynch: EFHW, O

Nothing  has really happened to lessen my early scumread of EFHW, and the fact that the wagon has risen and fallen the way is has makes me happy.

Null? That's it? I would prefer to lynch O over EFHW from your reads
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 09, 2018, 05:25:45 pm
I don't like any of our waons. Can we please start some other wagon? It doesn't have to be gkrieg; I'm flexible. But I'm not around for much longer.
Where were you when I was voting 2.7?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on April 09, 2018, 05:27:15 pm
Back and reading again. I made a bunch of notes this morning on Robz, IDP and mcmc, but didn't get a chance to post anything before my visitor turned up for the day. I'll re-read everyone else as quickly as I can now.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 09, 2018, 05:30:04 pm

Though it's not all right. It is so far from all right.
We'll make it into a choice somehow.
I don't know how, but you'll have a choice somehow.
 (https://youtu.be/d0iSoyw_btI?t=223)

Vote count 1.10

Robz888 (3): IDontPlayThisGame, EFHW, O
McMcsalot (1): Galzria
EFHW (2): mcmcsalot, SpaceAnemone
IDontPlayThisGame (4): Robz888, The_Wine_Merchant, gkrieg13, 2.71828...
gkrieg13 (1): faust
Galzria (1): DatSwan

not voting (2): Cuzz

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends Monday, April 9 at 9pm forum time. That is 12 hours and ~15 minutes from now.

mod note: added song lyrics to the last 5 vote counts. Which means all the best lyrics are up that way ^

My last point is important because I believe will be the ones fretting most about consolidation at this point. Looking at the above vote count (I'll get to actual posts in a bit) I'm very much inclined to look away from IDPTG & Robz today, and instead look heavily at: EFHW, TWM, O, e & Gkrieg.
I really have to disagree here.

Town members are certainly likely to be fretting about vote consolidation at this point if they care about getting a lynch. Anyone who has experienced or nearly experienced a no lynch would be feeling that way. We have to consolidate if we want to get to a lynch, otherwise we all just sit on our isolated opinions and never get a wagon large enough to be a majority. There might be scum in the mix, certainly. But to blanket sweep those who are trying to move in that direction is ridiculous and unnecessary paints people as scummy moving forward. What are you going to do? Jump on everyone that consolidates from this point out too?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 09, 2018, 05:30:57 pm
I am caught up.

Won't Lynch: TWM, IDP, Gkrieg, Faust, Datswan, Robz

Null: Galzria, 2.7, Cuzz, Space

Want to lynch: EFHW, O

Nothing  has really happened to lessen my early scumread of EFHW, and the fact that the wagon has risen and fallen the way is has makes me happy.
vote: EFHW although I guess I don't get the many people so unwilling to lynch IDPTG.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: iguanaiguana on April 09, 2018, 05:41:39 pm

Down a hall in your house, down a road in December,
We can never go back; we can only remember.
 (https://youtu.be/d0iSoyw_btI?t=236)

Vote count 1.11

Robz888 (3): IDontPlayThisGame, EFHW, O
McMcsalot (1): Galzria
EFHW (3): mcmcsalot, SpaceAnemone, The_Wine_Merchant
IDontPlayThisGame (2): Robz888, gkrieg13
Galzria (1): DatSwan
SpaceAnemone (2): faust, 2.71828


not voting (1): Cuzz

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends Monday, April 9 at 9pm forum time. That is 3 hours and ~20 minutes from now.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Robz888 on April 09, 2018, 05:46:04 pm
Vote: EFHW
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Galzria on April 09, 2018, 05:47:30 pm
Vote tracker by player:

Robz: {Galz/30}, {Gkrieg/96}, {Faust/145}, {IDPTG/187}
IDPTG: {Robz/32}
Mcmc: {Robz/70}, {EFHW/150}
2.714: {Robz/36}, {O/264}, {Space/271}, {Datswan/296}, {IDPTG/324}, {Space/420}
TWM: {EFHW/126}, {2.714/274), {EFHW/295}, {IDPTG/302}, {2.714/379}, {IDPTG/411}
Swan: {O/74}, {Faust/282}, {Galz/362}
Space: {2.714/69}, {EFHW/237}
Galzria: {Robz/51}, {TWM/56}, {Mcmc/124}
Cuzz:
EFHW: {Galzria/68}, {TWM/244}, {Robz/292}
O: {O/61}, {Robz/313}
Faust: {O/60}, {IDPTG/169}, {EFHW/235}, {TWM/241}, {IDPTG/325}, {Gkrieg/343}, {Space/417}
Gkrieg: {Galz/80}, {Faust/255}, {Datswan/289}, {IDPTG/321}

Players that have received unique votes:

Robz (6}: IDPTG, Mcmc, 2.714, Galzria, EFHW, O
IDPTG (5): Robz, 2.714, Mcmc, Faust, Gkrieg
Mcmc (1): Mcmc
2.714 (2): TWM, Space
TWM (3): Galzria, EFHW, Faust
Swan (1): Gkrieg
Space (2): 2.714, Faust
Galzria (4): Robz, Swan, EFHW, Gkrieg
Cuzz (0):
EFHW (4): Mcmc, TWM, Space, Faust
O (4): 2.714, Swan, O, Faust
Faust (3): Robz, Swan, Gkrieg
Gkrieg (2): Robz, Faust
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Galzria on April 09, 2018, 05:48:43 pm
I'm definitely against a Robz or IDPTG lynch. Scum generally do not collect that much attention throughout the day while maintaining large wagons into the last day of deadline.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: EFHW on April 09, 2018, 05:49:06 pm
I had not seen anyone express any interest in gkrieg lynch.

Multiple people have said 2.7 but no one had started it.

Feel the two situations are different.
Why not Robz?
Why are you specifically asking about Robz? I haven't been interested in a Robz lynch and seen only passing interest from others. I am not going to create a wagon on someone that I don't want to vote for.
He has had a 3 person wagon for some time now, so you would not be creating a wagon and I'm not sure what you could mean by only passing interest, and in my opinion his white knighting/buddying me read like a scum strategy.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Galzria on April 09, 2018, 05:49:14 pm
Unvote
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: EFHW on April 09, 2018, 05:53:13 pm
Players that have received unique votes:

Robz (6}: IDPTG, Mcmc, 2.714, Galzria, EFHW, O


More than anyone else. Lack of interest from others doesn't apply.

Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: EFHW on April 09, 2018, 05:56:00 pm
Vote: EFHW

vote: EFHW although I guess I don't get the many people so unwilling to lynch IDPTG.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Galzria on April 09, 2018, 05:57:21 pm

Though it's not all right. It is so far from all right.
We'll make it into a choice somehow.
I don't know how, but you'll have a choice somehow.
 (https://youtu.be/d0iSoyw_btI?t=223)

Vote count 1.10

Robz888 (3): IDontPlayThisGame, EFHW, O
McMcsalot (1): Galzria
EFHW (2): mcmcsalot, SpaceAnemone
IDontPlayThisGame (4): Robz888, The_Wine_Merchant, gkrieg13, 2.71828...
gkrieg13 (1): faust
Galzria (1): DatSwan

not voting (2): Cuzz

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends Monday, April 9 at 9pm forum time. That is 12 hours and ~15 minutes from now.

mod note: added song lyrics to the last 5 vote counts. Which means all the best lyrics are up that way ^

My last point is important because I believe will be the ones fretting most about consolidation at this point. Looking at the above vote count (I'll get to actual posts in a bit) I'm very much inclined to look away from IDPTG & Robz today, and instead look heavily at: EFHW, TWM, O, e & Gkrieg.
I really have to disagree here.

Town members are certainly likely to be fretting about vote consolidation at this point if they care about getting a lynch. Anyone who has experienced or nearly experienced a no lynch would be feeling that way. We have to consolidate if we want to get to a lynch, otherwise we all just sit on our isolated opinions and never get a wagon large enough to be a majority. There might be scum in the mix, certainly. But to blanket sweep those who are trying to move in that direction is ridiculous and unnecessary paints people as scummy moving forward. What are you going to do? Jump on everyone that consolidates from this point out too?

Sorry, realize that I'm catching up and reading stuff from the last few days still. When I say "fretting about consolidation at this point", I'm referring mostly to the posts that were made during that time frame - not "now". Obviously we need to come to a consensus - but generally speaking, in the days leading up to an approaching deadline (like we have now), scum DO like to have things a little more in hand - because they cannot predict where we'll go "at this point" (as in, now) when the votes are all split up.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: EFHW on April 09, 2018, 05:58:42 pm
I'm definitely against a Robz or IDPTG lynch. Scum generally do not collect that much attention throughout the day while maintaining large wagons into the last day of deadline.

Why not? I don't follow this.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Galzria on April 09, 2018, 05:59:35 pm
I am caught up.

Won't Lynch: TWM, IDP, Gkrieg, Faust, Datswan, Robz

Null: Galzria, 2.7, Cuzz, Space

Want to lynch: EFHW, O

Nothing  has really happened to lessen my early scumread of EFHW, and the fact that the wagon has risen and fallen the way is has makes me happy.

Null? That's it? I would prefer to lynch O over EFHW from your reads

Anybody else on board with an O lynch?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Galzria on April 09, 2018, 06:02:33 pm
I'm definitely against a Robz or IDPTG lynch. Scum generally do not collect that much attention throughout the day while maintaining large wagons into the last day of deadline.

Why not? I don't follow this.

I don't understand your question. "Why not?" Because it doesn't happen. Find me a game where scum have been on the receiving end of the most votes D1 while continuing to be the primary wagons throughout. When scum DOES get lynched D1 (and it happens rarely), it's due to last minute moving votes due to opinions being spread and town coming together at the last moment to find a consensus. It's not because they've been consistently the most scummy & voted for people throughout the day.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 09, 2018, 06:02:50 pm
I am caught up.

Won't Lynch: TWM, IDP, Gkrieg, Faust, Datswan, Robz

Null: Galzria, 2.7, Cuzz, Space

Want to lynch: EFHW, O

Nothing  has really happened to lessen my early scumread of EFHW, and the fact that the wagon has risen and fallen the way is has makes me happy.

Null? That's it? I would prefer to lynch O over EFHW from your reads

Anybody else on board with an O lynch?

You are the one not voting right now, why don't you start something? Then if he is actually scum you can get all sorts of town points
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: EFHW on April 09, 2018, 06:08:39 pm
I'm definitely against a Robz or IDPTG lynch. Scum generally do not collect that much attention throughout the day while maintaining large wagons into the last day of deadline.

Why not? I don't follow this.

I don't understand your question. "Why not?" Because it doesn't happen. Find me a game where scum have been on the receiving end of the most votes D1 while continuing to be the primary wagons throughout. When scum DOES get lynched D1 (and it happens rarely), it's due to last minute moving votes due to opinions being spread and town coming together at the last moment to find a consensus. It's not because they've been consistently the most scummy & voted for people throughout the day.
Sorry, I can't assume that being found scummy by several people throughout a day makes a person unlikely to be scum. Even Day 1.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Galzria on April 09, 2018, 06:10:47 pm
I am caught up.

Won't Lynch: TWM, IDP, Gkrieg, Faust, Datswan, Robz

Null: Galzria, 2.7, Cuzz, Space

Want to lynch: EFHW, O

Nothing  has really happened to lessen my early scumread of EFHW, and the fact that the wagon has risen and fallen the way is has makes me happy.

Null? That's it? I would prefer to lynch O over EFHW from your reads

Anybody else on board with an O lynch?

You are the one not voting right now, why don't you start something? Then if he is actually scum you can get all sorts of town points

Sure.

Vote 2.714
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Galzria on April 09, 2018, 06:12:19 pm
I don't like any of our waons. Can we please start some other wagon? It doesn't have to be gkrieg; I'm flexible. But I'm not around for much longer.
Where were you when I was voting 2.7?

TWM, come back to 2.7
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Galzria on April 09, 2018, 06:12:36 pm
Robz, EFHW, Space:

2.7 lynch?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Galzria on April 09, 2018, 06:13:21 pm
Mcmc, you on board?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 09, 2018, 06:15:48 pm
Robz, EFHW, Space:

2.7 lynch?

As admirable as this attempt at my lynch is, you 1) don't have a case and 2) don't have the votes
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: EFHW on April 09, 2018, 06:16:44 pm
Robz, EFHW, Space:

2.7 lynch?
I could be on board, reluctantly.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Galzria on April 09, 2018, 06:22:35 pm
Robz, EFHW, Space:

2.7 lynch?

As admirable as this attempt at my lynch is, you 1) don't have a case and 2) don't have the votes

1) is irrelevant (and inaccurate), and 2) remains to be seen.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 09, 2018, 06:24:02 pm
Robz, EFHW, Space:

2.7 lynch?

As admirable as this attempt at my lynch is, you 1) don't have a case and 2) don't have the votes

1) is irrelevant (and inaccurate), and 2) remains to be seen.

Please address the inaccuracy of point 1
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Galzria on April 09, 2018, 06:24:42 pm
Robz, EFHW, Space:

2.7 lynch?

As admirable as this attempt at my lynch is, you 1) don't have a case and 2) don't have the votes

1) is irrelevant (and inaccurate), and 2) remains to be seen.

Please address the inaccuracy of point 1

Would doing so convince you that you're scum?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 09, 2018, 06:27:56 pm
Robz, EFHW, Space:

2.7 lynch?

As admirable as this attempt at my lynch is, you 1) don't have a case and 2) don't have the votes

1) is irrelevant (and inaccurate), and 2) remains to be seen.

Please address the inaccuracy of point 1

Would doing so convince you that you're scum?

You never know until you try
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Robz888 on April 09, 2018, 06:36:27 pm
No lynch here we come
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Galzria on April 09, 2018, 06:40:11 pm
No lynch here we come

There's 2 1/2 hours to deadline. I've seen entire vote counts flip in the last 10 minutes. There's a ton of time left. You're here. I'm here. Mcmc is in a timezone that should allow him to be present. Same for Datswan. Same for (I think?) EFHW. 2.718 is here. Space is around?

Faust is out. I don't know about Cuzz, IDPTG, O or Gkrieg.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Galzria on April 09, 2018, 06:41:18 pm
No lynch here we come

I'll hammer anybody at L-1 if needed to in order to finish a lynch. I've been wracking those up recently.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Galzria on April 09, 2018, 06:41:38 pm
No lynch here we come

I'll hammer anybody at L-1 if needed to in order to finish a lynch. I've been wracking those up recently.

But really, you should vote for 2.718 with me.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on April 09, 2018, 06:42:50 pm
Space is around?

Yes, but still only half way through my re-read, so I'm not quite feeling up to date with the deadline panic yet. I'll be here for at least another half hour.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 09, 2018, 06:44:43 pm
No lynch here we come

I'll hammer anybody at L-1 if needed to in order to finish a lynch. I've been wracking those up recently.

But really, you should vote for 2.718 with me.

Space is a much better vote.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on April 09, 2018, 06:47:21 pm
Vote 2.714

That's not even a valid vote, and I don't quite get what you're doing. Why isn't EFHW a decent wagon as far as you're concerned?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Galzria on April 09, 2018, 06:50:22 pm
Vote 2.714

That's not even a valid vote, and I don't quite get what you're doing. Why isn't EFHW a decent wagon as far as you're concerned?

It's valid. It's unambiguous, even if the last digit is wrong.

EFHW is an ok wagon. It just feels like a cop-out.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on April 09, 2018, 06:55:02 pm
Vote 2.714

That's not even a valid vote, and I don't quite get what you're doing. Why isn't EFHW a decent wagon as far as you're concerned?

It's valid. It's unambiguous, even if the last digit is wrong.

There's no colon, so at least my auto-vote-counter doesn't think it's valid. Right now, I get this as the state of play:

Robz888 (3): IDontPlayThisGame, EFHW, O
EFHW (4): mcmcsalot, SpaceAnemone, The_Wine_Merchant, Robz888
IDontPlayThisGame (1): gkrieg13
Galzria (1): DatSwan
SpaceAnemone (2): faust, 2.71828.....
Not Voting (2): Cuzz, Galzria


EFHW is an ok wagon. It just feels like a cop-out.

You seem to be awfully focused on pushing a lynch through, or getting hammer stats, but weirdly noncommittal when it comes to the leading wagon.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 09, 2018, 06:56:12 pm
Vote 2.714

That's not even a valid vote, and I don't quite get what you're doing. Why isn't EFHW a decent wagon as far as you're concerned?

It's valid. It's unambiguous, even if the last digit is wrong.

EFHW is an ok wagon. It just feels like a cop-out.

It is missing a colon is what he noticed. So technically not valid. I believe in honest mistakes and that you weren't trying some nefarious plot but are just genuinely misguided into thinking I am scum
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Galzria on April 09, 2018, 07:00:03 pm
Vote 2.714

That's not even a valid vote, and I don't quite get what you're doing. Why isn't EFHW a decent wagon as far as you're concerned?

It's valid. It's unambiguous, even if the last digit is wrong.

EFHW is an ok wagon. It just feels like a cop-out.

It is missing a colon is what he noticed. So technically not valid. I believe in honest mistakes and that you weren't trying some nefarious plot but are just genuinely misguided into thinking I am scum

Ah, you're both correct. I noticed the mistake in "spelling" (I've spelled it wrong all day today. Don't know why) - but I missed the colon. vote: 2.718. Fixed.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Galzria on April 09, 2018, 07:02:08 pm
Vote 2.714

That's not even a valid vote, and I don't quite get what you're doing. Why isn't EFHW a decent wagon as far as you're concerned?

It's valid. It's unambiguous, even if the last digit is wrong.

There's no colon, so at least my auto-vote-counter doesn't think it's valid. Right now, I get this as the state of play:

Robz888 (3): IDontPlayThisGame, EFHW, O
EFHW (4): mcmcsalot, SpaceAnemone, The_Wine_Merchant, Robz888
IDontPlayThisGame (1): gkrieg13
Galzria (1): DatSwan
SpaceAnemone (2): faust, 2.71828.....
Not Voting (2): Cuzz, Galzria


EFHW is an ok wagon. It just feels like a cop-out.

You seem to be awfully focused on pushing a lynch through, or getting hammer stats, but weirdly noncommittal when it comes to the leading wagon.

That's a bit of a stretch. I'm interested in getting a 2.718 lynch through. I haven't been going out of my way to push through "any lynch I can get". In fact, I would say it's been exactly the opposite. And in regards to the hammer stats, I mentioned it just once - and only because in my last two games I've swooped in from being MIA to cast the hammer vote and it's been fun. :P
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 09, 2018, 07:02:49 pm
What the hell is galz doing? I mean 2.7 is an ok lunch but no one has been interested the last two times. Why would they be now?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Galzria on April 09, 2018, 07:06:03 pm
What the hell is galz doing? I mean 2.7 is an ok lunch but no one has been interested the last two times. Why would they be now?

Deadline changes things. You're here and wanted the lynch, yes? EFHW expressed willingness. That's 3. I believe Robz would vote 2.7. Space was there earlier. That's 5. That only leaves 2 more - and Mcmc/Datswan should both be around before deadline - not to mention who knows about O/Cuzz/Gkrieg/IDPTG.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 09, 2018, 07:07:03 pm
I am not leaving a wagon that has four votes for a wagon that has one. Oh wait consolidation is scummy. I see what you are doing.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 09, 2018, 07:08:54 pm
I am not super comfortable with this. Depending on what I and a few others say scum can completely manipulate how this lynch goes.

Let's just say I'll vote where I want if I think I should
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Galzria on April 09, 2018, 07:09:06 pm
I am not leaving a wagon that has four votes for a wagon that has one. Oh wait consolidation is scummy. I see what you are doing.

Trying to get a lynch through for my highest scum read?

Consolidation isn't scummy, and you know that's not what I said or meant in context.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on April 09, 2018, 07:22:49 pm
Gah.. here's all the re-reading I've managed to get done tonight. Of the ones I've re-read, IDP is my favoured candidate. Vote: IDP for the moment.

Given that everyone's giving Cuzz a practically un-commented-upon free pass for D1, I really only have 5 more to re-read, and I'm already feeling pretty townie on gkrieg simply because if he's scum he's usually the one spearheading my mislynch.

Code: [Select]
Robz -- jokes about being the SK, and for playing for his next scum game. Chats about how he met his wife. Calls the setup confusing, and defends Galz for asking stuff. Then jokes about mcmc telling whether gkrieg is scum, before voting gkrieg. Complains about the setup being written in schadd-speak. I object on the grounds that it's actually entirely possible to pin the setup down in a probabilistic sense using the information given, so there's nothing unclear, and that's from someone who's sometimes overly literal, so for Robz to complain about language issues, as someone who works with words, seems lazy. "Lol I wish I was scum". Votes faust. Calls mcmc and Galz "both scum".  Sheeps faust on his IDP case. Defends himself for being called out on jumping around by saying he was just trying to provoke responses. Calls EFHW townie. Falls on the "lynch lurkers" side of the argument. Townreads faust, then notes he's trying to distract from the IDP wagon. Calls clutter anti-town. All that in 21 game posts.

IDontPlayThisGame (18 posts) -- Jokey opener, then nothing till #149, where he nitpicks Robz. Disagrees with O's scumread on mcmc, and wants e not to be serious about townreading RR (who's now Cuzz) for his absence. Responds to faust's case by saying that he has trouble D1 (tell me about that!), and also questioning whether scum really lurk D1. The second part of the defense feels superfluous, because he's suggesting lurkers have a low probability of being scum, which is maybe more likely to happen if he knows the rest of the lurkers aren't scum, which only happens when he is. Spends his next few posts defending his defense/response. Still has no avatar. Continues on a crusade to point out that lurker lynches aren't good in a way I don't really agree with, because he doesn't factor in the prior probability of anyone being scum, so sure, lurker lynches often don't work out, but it's also true that non-lurker lynches often hit town, so it's overly simplistic to use that as a reason not to lynch. I think a much more sensible reason not to lynch lurkers is that they provide little extra info when they flip, compared to someone who's been on a lot of wagons and talked a lot with other players, so you can see their interactions. Also, a lurker scum isn't taking control of the game in the way an active scum might be to sway things. This re-read god side-tracked, but my general impression of IDP is definitely on the scummy side.

McMcsalot (19 posts) -- scumreads robz at the start. Agreed with a townread on e. Disagrees with scumreads on TWM and Galz. Converses with faust about townreading me. This is someone who frequently scumreads me for almost no reason, so I'm tentatively okay with that, though I still think both of them missed my feeling about how scums are going to want to be more controlling of a game and not be absent.. mcmc in particular is quite a controlling player (see comments like "would actually like EFHW to answer before datswan", where he casually expects players to fall in line with how he wants things to be done. Declines to explain what town!Robz should look like to him. That's maybe a healthy suspicion between the brothers? Defends TWM's dama sequence, which is funny only because TWM later admitted that some of it was a bit fake. Townreads Datswan and then gkrieg; scumreads EFHW, and confirms this when he's back again after a longish break.

e: 48 game posts is quite a lot. Scumreads Robz out of the box. Jokes around with stuff like an early reads list. Also defends TWM and his dama. Calls RR town for being absent. Accuses faust of being scummy over part of his IDP case. Points out that Robz seems to be wagon-fishing. Townreads Robz after he responds to that. Policy-votes O over his self-vote. Votes me for my EFHW vote (I still think her comment sounded forced). Starts talking about lurker patterns in post counts. Decides that Swan and Cuzz are probably not teammates. Votes Swan, then IDP after Swan posts. Wants to lynch me. His post frequency tails off a bit later in the day, but he says he'll be around for deadline. Annoyingly, he reads quite townie in spite of pushing for me. He and I tend not to see at all eye-to-eye on things pretty often.

The Wine Merchant: Opens with some silly stuff then that whole dama thing. Votes EFHW while doing a bit of agreeing with mcmc. Notes RR's disappearance. Gets a little defensive about how shouty he got last game. Townreads faust, but later clarifies that he townreads him [i]because[/i] he wants to vote him, which is a weird way of constructing a townread. Votes e. Keeps pretty cool when faust goes perilously close to actively encouraging negative play. Joins the EFHW wagon. Slightly odd response to faust's gkrieg vote: "I don't see the purpose of it at this point in the game" -- not actually sure where he was going with that. Moves back to EFHW. Tries to push e and steer away from gkrieg. Gives a case for the former only after prompting. Votes IDP and says he'll be back before deadline. I actually don't mind the IDP vote after my re-read, but the rest is a bit of a mixed bag, so he's pretty null.

Datswan: Opens with a vote on O, an suspicion on Galz. Asks O why he finds Swan scummy. Asks e why he'd possibly townread an absent player. Confirms his enduring scumread on O. Asks faust what his read on O is. Gives a pretty paranoid-sounding reads list before voting faust (with a malformed vote that got counted anyway). Asks Robz why he (Swan) got classed as an okay lynch. Scumreads faust. Points out gkrieg's malformed vote on Swan. So clearly is paying attention to vote formats. Calls Robz scum for scumreading him over "nonsense reasons". Claims not to have noticed that RR was replaced. Nitpicks some of EFHW's wording, in that he points out it's potentially scummy, but without making anything else of it, which seems hedgey. Still wants to push faust or Galz. I dislike how everyone is removing Cuzz from their analysis/lynchpools. Presents faust, Galz, mcmc and me as his lynch pool, which kind of feels like a list of people he's paranoid about. Votes Galz, which is not a surprise from Swan. Certainly seems okay engaging a lot of people, so nullish-town.

Spaceanemone -- Spaaaaaaace!
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: O on April 09, 2018, 07:26:23 pm
Vote: Galzria

why not consolidate on a better lynch than e.

Also not voting for IDPTG or EFHW. Anyone else I'm good with.

Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: O on April 09, 2018, 07:28:32 pm
BTW the whole concept of giving pseudo-D1-lynch immunity is quite asinine and does nothing but create feedback loops... (you mean the people we categorically refuse to lynch end up winning more?? what a shocker.)
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: EFHW on April 09, 2018, 07:41:57 pm
Vote: Galzria

why not consolidate on a better lynch than e.

Also not voting for IDPTG or EFHW. Anyone else I'm good with.
Us capital letters have to stick together 🙂
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Robz888 on April 09, 2018, 07:42:04 pm
vote: IDP

Muh preferred lynch
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: O on April 09, 2018, 07:45:11 pm
btw im here for like 5 more minutes so if anyone wants to take a stab at convincing me to vote for not-Galz, now is the time
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 09, 2018, 07:53:18 pm
About an hour left now.

Vote: IDPTG

Also, reading Space's notes in the little code box on mobile was fun. I did like their comments in IDP as well as their comments on me.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Galzria on April 09, 2018, 07:55:22 pm
About an hour left now.

Vote: IDPTG

Also, reading Space's notes in the little code box on mobile was fun. I did like their comments in IDP as well as their comments on me.

The scroll. Oh my. So long.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Galzria on April 09, 2018, 07:56:38 pm
vote: EFHW. Prefer to IDPTG.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Swowl on April 09, 2018, 07:57:14 pm
Can we get a VC plz.
63 minutes left.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Galzria on April 09, 2018, 07:57:41 pm
Vote: Galzria

why not consolidate on a better lynch than e.

Also not voting for IDPTG or EFHW. Anyone else I'm good with.

Because I didn't like either of the current wagons, so I attempted to make one I did like. Exactly what you're doing now.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Galzria on April 09, 2018, 08:00:50 pm
I believe this is correct:

Right now, I get this as the state of play:

Robz888 (2): IDontPlayThisGame, EFHW
EFHW (3): mcmcsalot, The_Wine_Merchant, Galzria
IDontPlayThisGame (4): gkrieg13, Robz888, SpaceAnemone, 2.71828.....
Galzria (2): DatSwan, O
SpaceAnemone (1): faust
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: schadd on April 09, 2018, 08:03:53 pm

Maybe they told you 'bout the summer sky,
maybe they said there's a great gold spirit in the summer sky
or all your friends (all your best, best friends)
are gonna gather around your bed at night.
Well that'll make it all right because it is still so far from all right. Oh, kid, I know.
 (https://youtu.be/d0iSoyw_btI?t=264)

Vote count 1.12

Robz888 (2): IDontPlayThisGame, EFHW
EFHW (3): mcmcsalot, The_Wine_Merchant, Galzria
IDontPlayThisGame (4): gkrieg13, SpaceAnemone, Robz888, 2.71828
Galzria (2): DatSwan, O
SpaceAnemone (1): faust

not voting (1): Cuzz

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends Monday, April 9 at 9pm forum time. 1hr

Mod note: Fixed
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Swowl on April 09, 2018, 08:24:56 pm
Vote: EFHW
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 09, 2018, 08:26:56 pm
Funny how the two people our largest wagons are on are voting Robz
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 09, 2018, 08:28:03 pm
Around for about 5 minutes then gone
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 09, 2018, 08:29:54 pm
I see no reason to lynch EFHW over IDPTG
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 09, 2018, 08:31:33 pm
Also if I had a vig shot, it would go toward Faust tonight. He was much less helpful today than he normally is, and all his cases werenít as good as they usually are. He is ending the day one someone with a weak case.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 09, 2018, 08:33:35 pm
Yeah, let's just start talking about PRs now.....
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Swowl on April 09, 2018, 08:34:51 pm
E/GK - real question. you gonna let it go no lynch instead of switch?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Swowl on April 09, 2018, 08:35:14 pm
I see no reason to lynch EFHW over IDPTG

Do you see a reason for lynching EFHW over no one?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 09, 2018, 08:35:54 pm
E/GK - real question. you gonna let it go no lynch instead of switch?
Are you? Vote: IDPTG
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Swowl on April 09, 2018, 08:38:04 pm
E/GK - real question. you gonna let it go no lynch instead of switch?
Are you? Vote: IDPTG
assuming sarcasm - of course not. I was asking them specifically because they were present.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Swowl on April 09, 2018, 08:39:48 pm
can we do Robz?
lets do robz!
Seriously. Both our guys on him, and there is no way we are finding skum in either of the two people currently on wagon - just too much feels like skum playing a TvT wagon situation with how laid back it is.

CMon Robz anyone?!?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Robz888 on April 09, 2018, 08:40:23 pm
I'm here, still prefer IDP.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Swowl on April 09, 2018, 08:40:34 pm
I am here til DL. I will move to make the lynch happen but I am gonna try to get the train going for a sec here.

Vote: Robz
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Robz888 on April 09, 2018, 08:41:43 pm
I mean this is well deserved since I always support your lynch and always think you're scum, but you have no case here. I guess that's not much of a criticism; no one else has any good cases, really.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: EFHW on April 09, 2018, 08:42:21 pm
Here.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Galzria on April 09, 2018, 08:42:38 pm
I am here til DL. I will move to make the lynch happen but I am gonna try to get the train going for a sec here.

Vote: Robz

Look at the number of people that have voted for Robz (and IDPTG) in the day prior to "deadline crunch". Do you honestly believe that scum collects that many votes D1?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Robz888 on April 09, 2018, 08:43:50 pm
I am here til DL. I will move to make the lynch happen but I am gonna try to get the train going for a sec here.

Vote: Robz

Look at the number of people that have voted for Robz (and IDPTG) in the day prior to "deadline crunch". Do you honestly believe that scum collects that many votes D1?

If I were scum it would be a dream scenario... but no, it doesn't happen.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 09, 2018, 08:44:40 pm
Here.

You should vote IDPTG
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Swowl on April 09, 2018, 08:44:54 pm
I am here til DL. I will move to make the lynch happen but I am gonna try to get the train going for a sec here.

Vote: Robz

Look at the number of people that have voted for Robz (and IDPTG) in the day prior to "deadline crunch". Do you honestly believe that scum collects that many votes D1?
Yes - when all of a sudden the wagon goes from Robz to 2 players that are not robz - think it is possible.

Truely it is just a matter of I do not think there is any chance at all we find skum in EFHW or IDP. I want to lynch you and Faust. But that ain't happening. So I would take the - whatever - 5% chance on robz over the like no % chance on the current two wagons.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: EFHW on April 09, 2018, 08:45:42 pm
I am here til DL. I will move to make the lynch happen but I am gonna try to get the train going for a sec here.

Vote: Robz

Look at the number of people that have voted for Robz (and IDPTG) in the day prior to "deadline crunch". Do you honestly believe that scum collects that many votes D1?
Robz would. I don't think that's a good argument. But I guess I already said that.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: EFHW on April 09, 2018, 08:46:12 pm
Here.

You should vote IDPTG
I'm hoping for Robz still.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: EFHW on April 09, 2018, 08:51:08 pm
Ok, not happening. vote: IDPTG.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: EFHW on April 09, 2018, 08:51:59 pm
L-1. Guess he's not here though?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Swowl on April 09, 2018, 08:52:41 pm
all you galz.. I know you want it.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Galzria on April 09, 2018, 08:54:11 pm
all you galz.. I know you want it.

This is stupid.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Galzria on April 09, 2018, 08:54:23 pm
all you galz.. I know you want it.

This is stupid.

Not you, the lynch.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Swowl on April 09, 2018, 08:54:29 pm
fuck me. 2 minutes left get reached I will do it. this is dumb.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Galzria on April 09, 2018, 08:54:45 pm
all you galz.. I know you want it.

This is stupid.

Not you, the lynch.

I cannot believe people prefer this to EFHW
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Swowl on April 09, 2018, 08:55:20 pm
wiat didnt you say you preferred IDP to EFHW?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Galzria on April 09, 2018, 08:55:47 pm
all you galz.. I know you want it.

This is stupid.

Not you, the lynch.

I cannot believe people prefer this to EFHW

There's no case on IDPTG. And he's literally done the EXACT same thing he did in his last town game - RVS vote that stayed the entire time because it developed into a scum read.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: iguanaiguana on April 09, 2018, 08:55:54 pm

Down a hall in your house, down a road in December
Up the stairs four flights, son; can you feel my heart shiver?
Wakin' in the dawn with that dream getting dimmer and dimmer.
 (https://youtu.be/d0iSoyw_btI?t=295)

Vote count 1.13

Robz888 (2): IDontPlayThisGame, DatSwan
EFHW (3): mcmcsalot, The_Wine_Merchant, Galzria
IDontPlayThisGame (6): gkrieg13, SpaceAnemone, Robz888, 2.71828, The_Wine_Merchant, EFHW (L-1)
Galzria (1): O
SpaceAnemone (1): faust

not voting (1): Cuzz

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends Monday, April 9 at 9pm forum time.

5 Minutes!
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Galzria on April 09, 2018, 08:56:03 pm
wiat didnt you say you preferred IDP to EFHW?

No.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: EFHW on April 09, 2018, 08:56:40 pm
all you galz.. I know you want it.

This is stupid.

Not you, the lynch.

I agree. Just better than no lynch. Better than a me-lynch, too.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Swowl on April 09, 2018, 08:56:51 pm
wiat didnt you say you preferred IDP to EFHW?

No.

9
Mafia Game Threads / Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
ę on: Today at 04:56:38 pm Ľ
vote: EFHW. Prefer to IDPTG.

???
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: EFHW on April 09, 2018, 08:57:13 pm
wiat didnt you say you preferred IDP to EFHW?

No.

He is voting me.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Galzria on April 09, 2018, 08:57:22 pm
all you galz.. I know you want it.

This is stupid.

Not you, the lynch.

I cannot believe people prefer this to EFHW

There's no case on IDPTG. And he's literally done the EXACT same thing he did in his last town game - RVS vote that stayed the entire time because it developed into a scum read.

I'm not saying it's good play. Or that he couldn't do it as scum. Just that "that reason", combined with how many people have pushed for him (FoS at literally every single one of you) makes him an incredibly unlikely scum lynch chance.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Swowl on April 09, 2018, 08:57:33 pm
Whatever. Sorry IDP.

Vote: IDPTG
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: iguanaiguana on April 09, 2018, 08:58:05 pm
Thread Locked.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Galzria on April 09, 2018, 08:58:14 pm
all you galz.. I know you want it.

This is stupid.

Not you, the lynch.

I agree. Just better than no lynch. Better than a me-lynch, too.

From you, fair.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: iguanaiguana on April 09, 2018, 09:02:35 pm

I said, are we going down the deep river? Down the deep river?
Why don't you say you still see it, say you remember? Are we going down?
Because I know it's scary, baby.
 (https://youtu.be/d0iSoyw_btI?t=315)

D1 Final Vote Count

Robz888 (1): IDontPlayThisGame
EFHW (3): mcmcsalot, The_Wine_Merchant, Galzria
IDontPlayThisGame (7): gkrieg13, SpaceAnemone, Robz888, 2.71828, The_Wine_Merchant, EFHW, DatSwan
Galzria (1): O
SpaceAnemone (1): faust

not voting (1): Cuzz

With 13 alive, it took 7 to lynch.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: iguanaiguana on April 09, 2018, 09:11:19 pm

Underneath the house just like a flameout teen
Who smells like sweat and gasoline
Kid, I stand with you.
And when you get hard and your eyes get mean
Cause you're on the march
Well, I could almost kiss you.
Don't let them twist you.
Here, have this song;
You can take it with you.
 (https://youtu.be/Waa7jgyffuw?t=86)

IDontPlayThisGame was a vanilla townie!

Kids get lost, lambs out wandering.
Bigger, blacker things go following
Them into a patch of forest
Somebody once planted for this.
Song's not over, phones still ringing
Eyes still rolling, eyes still clinging.
Something in the air starts singing.

Radio switched on and buzzing,
Something in the wind starts humming.
Something in the field starts hunting.
Kids grow up and kids get numb
And kids it's coming, kids it's going to come.
(https://youtu.be/YZFybEIziRI)
N1 begins now and last until April 11, ~9:15PM forum time. Night actions are due by April 10 at 9:15PM forum time.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: iguanaiguana on April 10, 2018, 06:32:40 pm
Upon reflection, I would prefer a longer night action submission window of 40 hours instead of 24. This will go into effect for all nights, starting tonight. The new night action deadline is April 11 at 1:15PM forum time. If anyone objects to this, please say so in your quicktopic.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: iguanaiguana on April 11, 2018, 09:07:35 pm

Sam, bless him, has died and left this home,
The woodchucks running wild, the bushes overgrown.
Slip unseen into the skein of trees;
Slide through dusky grasses and scatter his ashes.

Oh, it is all over, he is never coming back.
There will be no more roaming.
He was only here for fourteen years
And now the branches scratch my face and I can't hold back my tears.
 (https://youtu.be/fDMqnX66RG4?t=10)

Faust has died in the night. He was Sam, a town tracker.

I've come to feel, out on the sea
These urgent lives press against me.
I'm just a guest. I'm not a part.
With my tender head, with my easy heart,
These several years out on the sea
Have made me empty, cold, and clear. Pour yourself into me.
 (https://youtu.be/V9pVhN4e6vY?t=255)

McMcsalot has died in the night. He was the sailor, a town universal backup.

No one wants to hear about your 97th tear
So dry your eyes and let it go uncried, my dear.
(https://youtu.be/CaXvayF2vog)
Day 2 Starts now!

Vote count 2.0

not voting (10): Robz888, 2.71828..., The_Wine_Merchant, Datswan, SpaceAnemone, Galzria, Cuzz, EFHW, O, Gkrieg13

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 2 ends Wednesday, April 18 at 9pm forum time.

Thread unlocked!
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 11, 2018, 09:12:03 pm
Wow that sucks.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 11, 2018, 09:14:09 pm
I believe that is three letters accounted for though.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 11, 2018, 09:15:28 pm
vote: O for being very under the radar
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 11, 2018, 09:16:33 pm
Iím also eerie of EFHW now.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 11, 2018, 09:16:55 pm
That should probably be weary.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: O on April 11, 2018, 09:18:58 pm
very unclear how im under the radar.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: O on April 11, 2018, 09:35:44 pm
Vote: Gkrieg

post reeks of pre-flip planning of wagon to push.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: EFHW on April 11, 2018, 10:16:26 pm
Iím also eerie of EFHW now.
Why more than before?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 11, 2018, 10:16:57 pm
Iím also eerie of EFHW now.
Now?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 11, 2018, 10:17:17 pm
EFHW beat me to it.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 11, 2018, 10:17:54 pm
That should probably be weary.
wary
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 11, 2018, 10:18:28 pm
Vote: Gkrieg

post reeks of pre-flip planning of wagon to push.
Does scum really do that, that much though?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: O on April 11, 2018, 10:19:52 pm
Vote: Gkrieg

post reeks of pre-flip planning of wagon to push.
Does scum really do that, that much though?

They do it more frequently than town come rushing out the gates with an arbitrary vote after a bad night.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 11, 2018, 10:21:48 pm
And FYI - partially VLA through Saturday.

Finally going to see Hamilton (someone needs to run a Hamilton mafia game!) and a grandma's 90th birthday celebration taking up much of the next few days.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 11, 2018, 10:22:06 pm
Vote: Gkrieg

post reeks of pre-flip planning of wagon to push.
Does scum really do that, that much though?

They do it more frequently than town come rushing out the gates with an arbitrary vote after a bad night.
I have a hard time believing that.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: O on April 11, 2018, 10:24:42 pm
Vote: Gkrieg

post reeks of pre-flip planning of wagon to push.
Does scum really do that, that much though?

They do it more frequently than town come rushing out the gates with an arbitrary vote after a bad night.
I have a hard time believing that.

You having a hard time believing it is why scum are incentivized to do it.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 11, 2018, 10:26:21 pm
Vote: Gkrieg

post reeks of pre-flip planning of wagon to push.
Does scum really do that, that much though?

They do it more frequently than town come rushing out the gates with an arbitrary vote after a bad night.
I have a hard time believing that.

You having a hard time believing it is why scum are incentivized to do it.
OK. That is a fair point, but you are switching arguments. Let's be more specific to the person at hand, gkrieg. Is he more likely to do that in the context of this situation. Why would he (or his team) pick you?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: O on April 11, 2018, 10:31:24 pm
Vote: Gkrieg

post reeks of pre-flip planning of wagon to push.
Does scum really do that, that much though?

They do it more frequently than town come rushing out the gates with an arbitrary vote after a bad night.
I have a hard time believing that.

You having a hard time believing it is why scum are incentivized to do it.
OK. That is a fair point, but you are switching arguments. Let's be more specific to the person at hand, gkrieg. Is he more likely to do that in the context of this situation. Why would he (or his team) pick you?

Why would his team not pick me? I don't think I've had especially reassuring scumreads this game. Last night plenty of people demonstrated a willingness to lynch me, even if they didnt vote for me come deadline.

I don't see any compelling argument for why town!Gkrieg would vote for me in particular either. I didn't really fly under the radar at all IMO.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 11, 2018, 11:12:49 pm
So I assume SK because that would have been a terrible vig shot. Shooting either one of them
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 11, 2018, 11:15:13 pm
On the one hand....the wagon on IDP definitely had scum on it. Everyone who died was off-wagon.

Of course, that statement is extremely generic and means almost nothing at this point
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 11, 2018, 11:17:05 pm
Also, I think DatSwan or Galz is scum. The way they belabored that lynch was scummy.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 11, 2018, 11:18:18 pm
EFHW played it townie in my opinion. The prolonged agony of knowing they would mislynch town just seems faked.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 11, 2018, 11:19:20 pm
Way Too Early Reads List:

1. Robz - scum. This is actually a read.
2. IDontPlayThisGame - town. If he is in fact playing this game
3. McMcsalot - town. Won't be on the same team as his brother
4. e - town.
5. The Wine Merchant - strong town read. He will basically have to claim scum and the rest of you lynch him. I am convinced he is town.
6. Datswan - town. Because I don't know Datswan as well as others
7. Spaceanemone - town. Playing the odds on this one. We only have 3 scum
8. Galzria - SK. Someone has to be. (I guess not technically. Ok, I read the setup)
9. Roadrunner - town. Dude is always town and no one gives him any credit for it.
10. EFHW - scum. EFHW is a tricky one to place. And I place her as scum
11. O - town. O joking about being scum is townie, Robz doing it is scummy. Perfectly clear logic
12. Faust - town. I hope.
13. Gkrieg - scum. Because I got to the bottom of the list and realized I needed another scum

Hmmmm. Robz/EFHW/Gkrieg scum team with Galzria SK. We have our work cut out for us, town. Or we just lynch the scum.

Also, 3/3. Should have trusted my reads.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 11, 2018, 11:20:33 pm
Vote: Gkrieg

post reeks of pre-flip planning of wagon to push.

Gkriegs posts seemed pretty natural to me
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 11, 2018, 11:27:07 pm
Yeah, vote: DatSwan
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 11, 2018, 11:33:11 pm
DatSwan only recieved one vote all of D1 I believe. Some of the reason behind that is his scum partners had no reason whatsoever to vote for him. You find reasons to vote for town, then people do something (lurk, have an "implicating" post, etc) and you latch onto those 2 or 3 townies and make the day all about them. You can ignore your partners.

DatSwan was that scum partner that was ignored D1 (at least as far as voting goes)
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: O on April 12, 2018, 12:51:36 am
DatSwan only recieved one vote all of D1 I believe. Some of the reason behind that is his scum partners had no reason whatsoever to vote for him. You find reasons to vote for town, then people do something (lurk, have an "implicating" post, etc) and you latch onto those 2 or 3 townies and make the day all about them. You can ignore your partners.

DatSwan was that scum partner that was ignored D1 (at least as far as voting goes)

You believe wrong ó you and gkrieg. Datswan is scummy though
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Swowl on April 12, 2018, 01:33:17 am
That should probably be weary.
wary

Maybe he is tired?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Swowl on April 12, 2018, 02:32:33 am
Way Too Early Reads List:

1. Robz - scum. This is actually a read.
2. IDontPlayThisGame - town. If he is in fact playing this game
3. McMcsalot - town. Won't be on the same team as his brother
4. e - town.
5. The Wine Merchant - strong town read. He will basically have to claim scum and the rest of you lynch him. I am convinced he is town.
6. Datswan - town. Because I don't know Datswan as well as others
7. Spaceanemone - town. Playing the odds on this one. We only have 3 scum
8. Galzria - SK. Someone has to be. (I guess not technically. Ok, I read the setup)
9. Roadrunner - town. Dude is always town and no one gives him any credit for it.
10. EFHW - scum. EFHW is a tricky one to place. And I place her as scum
11. O - town. O joking about being scum is townie, Robz doing it is scummy. Perfectly clear logic
12. Faust - town. I hope.
13. Gkrieg - scum. Because I got to the bottom of the list and realized I needed another scum

Hmmmm. Robz/EFHW/Gkrieg scum team with Galzria SK. We have our work cut out for us, town. Or we just lynch the scum.

Also, 3/3. Should have trusted my reads.

Last time i checked knowing who is Town is a skum trait.
Vote: 2.7
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: iguanaiguana on April 12, 2018, 07:18:54 am

I am all out of love to mouth into your ear
And not above letting a love song disappear
Before it is written.
(https://youtu.be/CaXvayF2vog?t=14)
Vote count 2.1
O (1): gkrieg13
gkrieg13 (1): O
DatSwan (1): 2.71828...
2.71828... (1): DatSwan

not voting (6): Robz888, The_Wine_Merchant, SpaceAnemone, Galzria, Cuzz, EFHW

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 2 ends Wednesday, April 18 at 9pm forum time.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: SpaceAnemone on April 12, 2018, 07:48:06 am
So I assume SK because that would have been a terrible vig shot. Shooting either one of them

I thought you admitted to having read the setup? If we have vigs, they're DayVigs, not standard ones. This is a schadd setup, after all...

I would scumread you for the possibly-staged "look how much I don't know what's going on" thing, and for encouraging others to think about SK-hunting, except that gkrieg made a similar comment towards the end of D1 that stuck in my mind a bit, too.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: SpaceAnemone on April 12, 2018, 07:59:34 am
Ah, my previous post makes more sense when I say I totally townread gkrieg, mainly just for not having tried to lynch me yet. He has a really long track record of being head of the "let's lynch Space" drive as either alignment. It would make a lot of sense for him to emulate that behaviour as scum, rather than to risk a townread on me.

I'll get to filling out the rest of my re-reads table sometime in the next few days. I still have to actually re-read gkrieg, but there are a few others I have virtually no informed opinion on right now, like O and Cuzz.

Sorry if the reads format in the code table was a pain for small devices to scroll through! My intention was to keep it in a tidy little box rather that eating up thread space, but I hate trying to make sense of a game on a phone screen, so I'm mostly imagining other people seeing it on screens like mine. My bad :-(
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on April 12, 2018, 08:03:17 am
I believe that is three letters accounted for though.

I think a single "O" and a single "L" are more likely, but I don't have time to re-run my probabilities this lunch break.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on April 12, 2018, 08:08:00 am
I believe that is three letters accounted for though.

I think a single "O" and a single "L" are more likely, but I don't have time to re-run my probabilities this lunch break.

Ah, wait, I'm being sloppy! I saw that "UB+Tracker" can come about in multiple ways, and accounted for the flips without remembering that we also have to account for the existence of the SK whose existence made there be a second flip in the first place. Definitely need lunch and coffee!
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: EFHW on April 12, 2018, 08:12:52 am
EFHW played it townie in my opinion. The prolonged agony of knowing they would mislynch town just seems faked.
I'm townie?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 12, 2018, 09:28:45 am
Way Too Early Reads List:

1. Robz - scum. This is actually a read.
2. IDontPlayThisGame - town. If he is in fact playing this game
3. McMcsalot - town. Won't be on the same team as his brother
4. e - town.
5. The Wine Merchant - strong town read. He will basically have to claim scum and the rest of you lynch him. I am convinced he is town.
6. Datswan - town. Because I don't know Datswan as well as others
7. Spaceanemone - town. Playing the odds on this one. We only have 3 scum
8. Galzria - SK. Someone has to be. (I guess not technically. Ok, I read the setup)
9. Roadrunner - town. Dude is always town and no one gives him any credit for it.
10. EFHW - scum. EFHW is a tricky one to place. And I place her as scum
11. O - town. O joking about being scum is townie, Robz doing it is scummy. Perfectly clear logic
12. Faust - town. I hope.
13. Gkrieg - scum. Because I got to the bottom of the list and realized I needed another scum

Hmmmm. Robz/EFHW/Gkrieg scum team with Galzria SK. We have our work cut out for us, town. Or we just lynch the scum.

Also, 3/3. Should have trusted my reads.

Last time i checked knowing who is Town is a skum trait.
Vote: 2.7
vote: datswan
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 12, 2018, 09:59:32 am
EFHW played it townie in my opinion. The prolonged agony of knowing they would mislynch town just seems faked.
I'm townie?

I thought how you played at the end of D1 was townie, especially in comparison to DatSwan
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: Cuzz on April 12, 2018, 10:37:08 am
right, so apologies for my profound uselessness. this is my first time replacing into a game and I'm doing it badly because I thought I had to read 18 pages of content before contributing and I'm realizing that that's not going to happen. so I'm gonna just reread O because I think this maybe seems like scum O.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: EFHW on April 12, 2018, 10:40:12 am
EFHW played it townie in my opinion. The prolonged agony of knowing they would mislynch town just seems faked.
I'm townie?

I thought how you played at the end of D1 was townie, especially in comparison to DatSwan
So it was Datswan's agony that seemed fake?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: Cuzz on April 12, 2018, 10:42:06 am
Way Too Early Reads List:

1. Robz - scum. This is actually a read.
2. IDontPlayThisGame - town. If he is in fact playing this game
3. McMcsalot - town. Won't be on the same team as his brother
4. e - town.
5. The Wine Merchant - strong town read. He will basically have to claim scum and the rest of you lynch him. I am convinced he is town.
6. Datswan - town. Because I don't know Datswan as well as others
7. Spaceanemone - town. Playing the odds on this one. We only have 3 scum
8. Galzria - SK. Someone has to be. (I guess not technically. Ok, I read the setup)
9. Roadrunner - town. Dude is always town and no one gives him any credit for it.
10. EFHW - scum. EFHW is a tricky one to place. And I place her as scum
11. O - town. O joking about being scum is townie, Robz doing it is scummy. Perfectly clear logic
12. Faust - town. I hope.
13. Gkrieg - scum. Because I got to the bottom of the list and realized I needed another scum

Hmmmm. Robz/EFHW/Gkrieg scum team with Galzria SK. We have our work cut out for us, town. Or we just lynch the scum.

Also, 3/3. Should have trusted my reads.

Last time i checked knowing who is Town is a skum trait.
Vote: 2.7

this is an awful, awful scummy vote from DatSwan
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 12, 2018, 10:46:24 am
EFHW played it townie in my opinion. The prolonged agony of knowing they would mislynch town just seems faked.
I'm townie?

I thought how you played at the end of D1 was townie, especially in comparison to DatSwan
So it was Datswan's agony that seemed fake?

Yes
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: EFHW on April 12, 2018, 10:51:26 am
EFHW played it townie in my opinion. The prolonged agony of knowing they would mislynch town just seems faked.
I'm townie?

I thought how you played at the end of D1 was townie, especially in comparison to DatSwan
So it was Datswan's agony that seemed fake?
Datswan tried pretty hard to get a different lynch. That didn't seem fake to me. Galzria's refusal to vote IDPTG was a surprise because we needed a lynch and there were maybe 5 minutes left. IDPTG was a terrible lynch. I looked back to try to see how it happened, and several people tried to get other wagons to work - there was the wagon on me, and the one on Robz. I'll try to do a blow-by-blow, see if it yields any insights.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: Robz888 on April 12, 2018, 11:08:29 am
Galz was right about IDP as it turned out, but I don't know, I sort of feel like he was doing the whole "look at me, being against this lynch, town laments, ahhh" thing that scum can do confidently because they know who is scum and who is town. So I am scum reading Galz.

I am also scum reading O, way way more than I am scumreading gkrieg.

TWM and Space feel townie. Cuzz being hopelessly out of it seems more townie than scummy.

Not sure about 2.7 and DatSwan.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 12, 2018, 11:14:09 am
That should probably be weary.
wary

Maybe he is tired?

I am sick...
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 12, 2018, 11:17:48 am
I believe that is three letters accounted for though.

I think a single "O" and a single "L" are more likely, but I don't have time to re-run my probabilities this lunch break.

Ah, wait, I'm being sloppy! I saw that "UB+Tracker" can come about in multiple ways, and accounted for the flips without remembering that we also have to account for the existence of the SK whose existence made there be a second flip in the first place. Definitely need lunch and coffee!

Ok, so you agree with me now on three letters?  There are many possibilities for which three letters, and I didnít want to enumerate them (because I donít think thatís useful right now).
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on April 12, 2018, 01:52:27 pm
Ok, so you agree with me now on three letters?  There are many possibilities for which three letters, and I didnít want to enumerate them (because I donít think thatís useful right now).

Yep, we agree. There are extra-many ways it can come about because of the fact that some multiples of S rolls give an extra W to the game.

I think I may have a bug where I've allowed W to resolve to S, which I've realised is explicitly disallowed. I'm glad about this discovery, because it makes everything slightly ill-defined to allow W->S, but I don't know why I wasn't thinking about that when I wrote the original probability-finder script. Hopefully I'll have time to fix it soon!
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: EFHW on April 12, 2018, 01:56:56 pm
@DatSwan - Why did you choose Robz as an alternate wagon at EOD yesterday?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: EFHW on April 12, 2018, 03:01:56 pm
Vote count 1.10

Robz888 (3): IDontPlayThisGame, EFHW, O
McMcsalot (1): Galzria
EFHW (2): mcmcsalot, SpaceAnemone
IDontPlayThisGame (4): Robz888, The_Wine_Merchant, gkrieg13, 2.71828...
gkrieg13 (1): faust
Galzria (1): DatSwan

not voting (2): Cuzz

9 a.m. TWM v. e, rejects idea of gkrieg lynch
2:48 p.m. TWM v. IDPTG because no one joined him on e.
3 pm e offers lynch Space
3:49 faust v. space, says going to bed
4:11 e v. space
4:15 gkrieg says Space wagon unlikely to go through
4:22 faust comes back, says he townreads IDP, stays on Space
4:23 Galzria disagrees with DatSwan that scum are comfy, saying scum like to have things in hand, not spread out. Does seem to agree that those with fewer votes in the course of the day are more likely to be scum. DatSwanís scum pool was faust, Galzria, mcmc and Space.
4:27 Galzria wonít vote IDP or Robz. Wants EFHW, TWM, O, e, or gkrieg.
4:43 mcmc w EFHW or O. Wonít vote TWM, IDP, gkrieg, faust, DatSwan, or Robz. Null on Space.
4:56 Robz says O is always scum
5:12 e prefers O over EFHW
5:25 TWM laments failed e wagon.
5:30 TWM v. EFHW, doesnít get why people arenít wanting to vote IDP.

Vote count 1.11

Robz888 (3): IDontPlayThisGame, EFHW, O
McMcsalot (1): Galzria
EFHW (3): mcmcsalot, SpaceAnemone, The_Wine_Merchant
IDontPlayThisGame (2): Robz888, gkrieg13
Galzria (1): DatSwan
SpaceAnemone (2): faust, 2.71828

not voting (1): Cuzz

5:46 pm Robz v. EFHW
5:48 Galz posts vote records. He is against voting Robz or IDP. Unvotes mcmc.
5:59 Galz suggests O lynch.
6:03 e tells Galzria to start something
6:10 Galzria v. e. Asks TWM to come back, also Robz, EFHW, Space and mcmc
6:12 EFHW willing to v. e
6:36 Robz predicts no lynch
6:40 Galzria says donít worry, heíll hammer anyone if has to.
6:44 e says to vote Space.
6:50 Galz ok with EFHW lynch, but thinks it is a copout.
6:55 Space thinks Galz is ďoddly non-committal when comes to leading wagonĒ (EFHW)
7:07 TWM wonít leave EFHW wagon for e.
7:26 O v. Galzria. Wonít vote e, EFHW, IDP
7:42 Robz v. IDP, much preferred
7:53 e v. IDP

Vote count 1.12

Robz888 (2): IDontPlayThisGame, EFHW
EFHW (3): mcmcsalot, The_Wine_Merchant, Galzria
IDontPlayThisGame (4): gkrieg13, SpaceAnemone, Robz888, 2.71828
Galzria (2): DatSwan, O
SpaceAnemone (1): faust

not voting (1): Cuzz

8:24 DatSwan v. EFHW
8:29 gkrieg prefers IDP
8:35 TWM v. IDP
8:39 DatSwan wants Robz lynch. 8:40 DatSwan v. Robz
8:42 Galzria doesnít want to vote Robz because he has gotten too much attention throughout the day.
8:44 e tells EFHW to vote IDP. Sheís still hoping for Robz.
8:51 EFHW v. IDP L-1
8:55 Galzria refuses to vote IDP
8:57 DatSwan v. IDP, saying ďSorry, IDPĒ
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: Swowl on April 12, 2018, 05:03:38 pm
@DatSwan - Why did you choose Robz as an alternate wagon at EOD yesterday?

Pretty sure i shared at the time - i didnít like either of the options and then the mini wagon earlier in the day was quickly dismantled on Robz
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: Swowl on April 12, 2018, 05:31:25 pm
Seems to be a lot of misguided attempts being made at me - specifically surrounding my act the end of D1.

So letís clear some stuff up:
1) Agony wasnít fake - didnít think he was gonna flip skum - would of preferred to do Robz, Galz, Faust. To call it agony might be a little much, but not like i am gonna let it go no lynch.

2) i announced i would hammer with 2 mins left. I did this bc my top skum read was he only other dude online to do something. My concern was he claims he will hammer, then last minute ďrealizes whatever reasonĒ and we go no lynch.

What should be looked at is he people try to push my wagon today based on my actions yesterday as ultimately, nothing i did has real merit to be viewed as skummy.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: O on April 12, 2018, 08:37:17 pm
It's nice that Cuzz, Robz, Galzria, Gkrieg, e and Datswan have all agreed at various points that I'm quite scummy and directly or indirectly have been pushing my lynch.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 12, 2018, 08:52:09 pm
It's nice that Cuzz, Robz, Galzria, Gkrieg, e and Datswan have all agreed at various points that I'm quite scummy and directly or indirectly have been pushing my lynch.

Yeah, it's like you might actually be town with all those people calling for your lynch.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: Cuzz on April 12, 2018, 09:23:21 pm
It's nice that Cuzz, Robz, Galzria, Gkrieg, e and Datswan have all agreed at various points that I'm quite scummy and directly or indirectly have been pushing my lynch.

why is that nice?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 12, 2018, 10:03:17 pm
It's nice that Cuzz, Robz, Galzria, Gkrieg, e and Datswan have all agreed at various points that I'm quite scummy and directly or indirectly have been pushing my lynch.

You seem much more focused on yourself this game instead of actually scum hunting.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: O on April 12, 2018, 10:20:08 pm
It's nice that Cuzz, Robz, Galzria, Gkrieg, e and Datswan have all agreed at various points that I'm quite scummy and directly or indirectly have been pushing my lynch.

You seem much more focused on yourself this game instead of actually scum hunting.

More like Iím my own most confident read, and the people Iíve pushed either have no traction as lynches it r lost traction (robz)
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: Robz888 on April 12, 2018, 10:29:36 pm
Vote: O
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: EFHW on April 12, 2018, 10:45:25 pm
Thoughts about EOD (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18398.msg754138#msg754138)

Add: 7:22 Space v. IDP
Add: 7:56 Galzria v. EFHW

Robz, gkrieg, Space and TWM talked about IDP as actually likely to be scum. faust, Galzria, mcmc, EFHW, O, DatSwan, and e all either refused to vote him or tried to find other wagons or both.

gkrieg and Robz turned things away from an EFHW lynch.

It's possible enough votes could have been found to lynch e or O.

The question I am left with is how scummy was it to choose IDP over other possibilities. To some of us he seemed obv!town.





Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 13, 2018, 01:40:29 am
The question I am left with is how scummy was it to choose IDP over other possibilities. To some of us he seemed obv!town.

This is where I ended up. People who seemed to have the votes to lynch at end of day were maybe robz, EFHW, IDP. I don't think anyone else was seriously close. If you want to throw me on that list, fine. I didn't feel like I was about to get lynched at all.

From there, IDP was the one I wanted to lynch the most, probably robz least, and (to answer DatSwan's question towards the end of day) I totally would have switched to EFHW to get a lynch.

In fact, I would say TWM's vote is what sealed the IDP lynch over you (EFHW).

Another reason I thought DatSwan's end of day was scummy. Asking that "would you switch to get a lynch" question felt super scummy to me.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 13, 2018, 01:42:15 am
The question I am left with is how scummy was it to choose IDP over other possibilities. To some of us he seemed obv!town.

This is where I ended up.

"That" being deciding that IDP was the best lynch we were going to get D1 and even though out wasn't my favorite lynch it had to be done.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 13, 2018, 01:51:53 am
In fact, I would say TWM's vote is what sealed the IDP lynch over you (EFHW).

Just wanted to bring this out for more consideration. There are a few scenarios here:
1) TWM and EFHW are scum partners and his move helped ensure partner doesn't get lynched
2) TWM is scum (EFHW town) and didn't really care which one of the two got lynched. I don't think that TWM casts a bold deciding vote like that as scum though unless he is saving his partner EFHW. It makes him the focal point of the mislynch
3) TWM is town (EFHW alignment neutral) and he decided to just do it. Get the lynch done.

Had TWM waited another 10/15 minutes I see an EFHW lynch happening just as easily as the IDP lynch.

What category do you all think TWM fits in? Or do you not consider his vote really the deciding votr of that lynch?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: O on April 13, 2018, 02:59:15 am
I think the TWM!Town narrative is perfectly reasonable enough that his vote is not particularly alignment indicative
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: Swowl on April 13, 2018, 05:09:35 am
Kay... a few things:

1) there was this post:
vote: EFHW. Prefer to IDPTG.

2) Then there was this post:
wiat didnt you say you preferred IDP to EFHW?

No.

-- Now Town changes the mind all the time - but he said "no". Just untrue. He absolutely said that he would "Prefer to IDPTG".--

3) Then there is this:
all you galz.. I know you want it.

This is stupid.

Not you, the lynch.

I cannot believe people prefer this to EFHW

- So like, yeah time had passed but nothing had really surfaced on EFHW. Why is it "we need to do IDP" and then all of a sudden "I can't believe we are doing IDP instead of EFHW?". Then he ends up on EFHW?

But like then there is this...
all you galz.. I know you want it.

This is stupid.

Not you, the lynch.

I cannot believe people prefer this to EFHW

There's no case on IDPTG. And he's literally done the EXACT same thing he did in his last town game - RVS vote that stayed the entire time because it developed into a scum read.

So he has no case against him because he is acting EXACTLY THE SAME... but then (as this is the first of the quotes mentioned above) the rest followed.

Galz is the nutz at telling when Faust is off right? Faust was off... but not skum, just Town PR. Which skum would know is the only "off" option.
This is way to many changes on a potential TvT wagon situation than makes sense. Hell, it doesn't make sense in any scenario.

This seems like a lot over a small amount of interaction.

Vote: Galz
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: O on April 13, 2018, 06:55:54 am
Kay... a few things:

1) there was this post:
vote: EFHW. Prefer to IDPTG.

2) Then there was this post:
wiat didnt you say you preferred IDP to EFHW?

No.

-- Now Town changes the mind all the time - but he said "no". Just untrue. He absolutely said that he would "Prefer to IDPTG".--

3) Then there is this:
all you galz.. I know you want it.

This is stupid.

Not you, the lynch.

I cannot believe people prefer this to EFHW

- So like, yeah time had passed but nothing had really surfaced on EFHW. Why is it "we need to do IDP" and then all of a sudden "I can't believe we are doing IDP instead of EFHW?". Then he ends up on EFHW?

But like then there is this...
all you galz.. I know you want it.

This is stupid.

Not you, the lynch.

I cannot believe people prefer this to EFHW

There's no case on IDPTG. And he's literally done the EXACT same thing he did in his last town game - RVS vote that stayed the entire time because it developed into a scum read.

So he has no case against him because he is acting EXACTLY THE SAME... but then (as this is the first of the quotes mentioned above) the rest followed.

Galz is the nutz at telling when Faust is off right? Faust was off... but not skum, just Town PR. Which skum would know is the only "off" option.
This is way to many changes on a potential TvT wagon situation than makes sense. Hell, it doesn't make sense in any scenario.

This seems like a lot over a small amount of interaction.

Vote: Galz

This is truly an impressive amount of analysis given that itís based on your misreading ďPrefer to idpĒ which is correctly interpreted as ďIím voting EFHW since I prefer her Lynch to idpísĒ
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: Cuzz on April 13, 2018, 07:46:06 am
Vote: O

Robz can you justify this?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: Cuzz on April 13, 2018, 07:47:56 am
Os assessment of datswans post above is dead on. A sincere question that I hope doesnít come off the wrong way: Datswan are you a native English speaker?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: Cuzz on April 13, 2018, 07:49:03 am
Another question for datswan: can you please explain your vote on e from a little while ago?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: iguanaiguana on April 13, 2018, 08:09:38 am
And no one wants a tune about the 100th luftballoon
That was seen shooting from the window of your room
To be a spot against the sky's colossal gloom
And land, deflated, in some neighbor state that's strewn
With 99 others.
(https://youtu.be/CaXvayF2vog?t=30)

Vote count 2.2
O (2): gkrieg13, Robz888
gkrieg13 (1): O
DatSwan (2): 2.71828..., The_Wine_Merchant
Galzria (1): DatSwan

not voting (6): SpaceAnemone, Galzria, Cuzz, EFHW

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 2 ends Wednesday, April 18 at 9pm forum time.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: O on April 13, 2018, 08:32:57 am
If datswan isnít a native speaker I owe him an apology as the tongue in cheek tone I used would be pretty uncalled for.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 13, 2018, 10:13:12 am
I do like DatSwan's energy building the case on galzria though.

I know I have misread posts and gone and built extravagant cases on them and then someone points out that I just misread a post. Not sure how alignment indicative it is though.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: EFHW on April 13, 2018, 11:08:21 am
The question I am left with is how scummy was it to choose IDP over other possibilities. To some of us he seemed obv!town.

This is where I ended up. People who seemed to have the votes to lynch at end of day were maybe robz, EFHW, IDP. I don't think anyone else was seriously close. If you want to throw me on that list, fine. I didn't feel like I was about to get lynched at all.

From there, IDP was the one I wanted to lynch the most, probably robz least, and (to answer DatSwan's question towards the end of day) I totally would have switched to EFHW to get a lynch.

In fact, I would say TWM's vote is what sealed the IDP lynch over you (EFHW)....
I disagree here. DatSwan voted me, right after Robz moved off me to IDP. gkrieg then said that he wanted to lynch IDP more than me. If he had voted me, Robz would have come back and there would have been an EFHW lynch. I think TWM's vote for IDP was because the votes weren't there for me anymore.

@Robz Why did you say you preferred IDP lynch yet you had been voting me before?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: Robz888 on April 13, 2018, 01:31:10 pm
Vote: O

Robz can you justify this?

Not at all!
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: Robz888 on April 13, 2018, 01:31:46 pm
The question I am left with is how scummy was it to choose IDP over other possibilities. To some of us he seemed obv!town.

This is where I ended up. People who seemed to have the votes to lynch at end of day were maybe robz, EFHW, IDP. I don't think anyone else was seriously close. If you want to throw me on that list, fine. I didn't feel like I was about to get lynched at all.

From there, IDP was the one I wanted to lynch the most, probably robz least, and (to answer DatSwan's question towards the end of day) I totally would have switched to EFHW to get a lynch.

In fact, I would say TWM's vote is what sealed the IDP lynch over you (EFHW)....
I disagree here. DatSwan voted me, right after Robz moved off me to IDP. gkrieg then said that he wanted to lynch IDP more than me. If he had voted me, Robz would have come back and there would have been an EFHW lynch. I think TWM's vote for IDP was because the votes weren't there for me anymore.

@Robz Why did you say you preferred IDP lynch yet you had been voting me before?

You did some townie things that caused me to re-evaluate. I think some error you corrected? I can't recall. I did state it publicly.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 13, 2018, 02:22:24 pm
Sorry all, I've been sick yesterday and today so I'm mainly sleeping and bingewatching netflix.  Will get to this once I'm done being sick.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: Cuzz on April 13, 2018, 03:18:11 pm
Vote: O

Robz can you justify this?

Not at all!

bah
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 13, 2018, 05:26:06 pm
2) i announced i would hammer with 2 mins left. I did this bc my top skum read was he only other dude online to do something. My concern was he claims he will hammer, then last minute ďrealizes whatever reasonĒ and we go no lynch.
Huh?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 13, 2018, 05:30:34 pm
In fact, I would say TWM's vote is what sealed the IDP lynch over you (EFHW).

Just wanted to bring this out for more consideration. There are a few scenarios here:
1) TWM and EFHW are scum partners and his move helped ensure partner doesn't get lynched
2) TWM is scum (EFHW town) and didn't really care which one of the two got lynched. I don't think that TWM casts a bold deciding vote like that as scum though unless he is saving his partner EFHW. It makes him the focal point of the mislynch
3) TWM is town (EFHW alignment neutral) and he decided to just do it. Get the lynch done.
Or there could be a #4.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 13, 2018, 05:43:51 pm
In fact, I would say TWM's vote is what sealed the IDP lynch over you (EFHW).

Just wanted to bring this out for more consideration. There are a few scenarios here:
1) TWM and EFHW are scum partners and his move helped ensure partner doesn't get lynched
2) TWM is scum (EFHW town) and didn't really care which one of the two got lynched. I don't think that TWM casts a bold deciding vote like that as scum though unless he is saving his partner EFHW. It makes him the focal point of the mislynch
3) TWM is town (EFHW alignment neutral) and he decided to just do it. Get the lynch done.
Or there could be a #4.

Oh yeah, SK
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 13, 2018, 05:45:33 pm
The question I am left with is how scummy was it to choose IDP over other possibilities. To some of us he seemed obv!town.

This is where I ended up. People who seemed to have the votes to lynch at end of day were maybe robz, EFHW, IDP. I don't think anyone else was seriously close. If you want to throw me on that list, fine. I didn't feel like I was about to get lynched at all.

From there, IDP was the one I wanted to lynch the most, probably robz least, and (to answer DatSwan's question towards the end of day) I totally would have switched to EFHW to get a lynch.

In fact, I would say TWM's vote is what sealed the IDP lynch over you (EFHW)....
I disagree here. DatSwan voted me, right after Robz moved off me to IDP. gkrieg then said that he wanted to lynch IDP more than me. If he had voted me, Robz would have come back and there would have been an EFHW lynch. I think TWM's vote for IDP was because the votes weren't there for me anymore.

@Robz Why did you say you preferred IDP lynch yet you had been voting me before?

I reread and yeah, I think you are right about that. I hadn't realized that both Galzria and Datswan were both on EFHW at the 4/4 stage.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: Galzria on April 13, 2018, 06:18:49 pm
Sorry, caught up with work and fixing an AC unit. I'll be on tonight, tomorrow night and lots on Monday.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: Cuzz on April 13, 2018, 07:24:50 pm
so I reread O and he seems like normal O so we'll call that a null read and move on to someone else
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: SpaceAnemone on April 13, 2018, 07:32:10 pm
I've been doing re-reads too, but I'm too tired to go back and make myself less verbose right now, so I'll post in the morning. My use of the code box wasn't popular as an alternative to a wall of text, was it? (Even if made more succinct and relevant, it's still a but chunky).

In other news, there's a definite bug in the numbers i posted for likelihoods of various roles, which I'm embarrassed about. I knew I didn't have enough awkeness in me tonight to finish that and do some re-reading, so I propritised the letter.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: Swowl on April 13, 2018, 07:56:12 pm
Kay... a few things:

1) there was this post:
vote: EFHW. Prefer to IDPTG.

2) Then there was this post:
wiat didnt you say you preferred IDP to EFHW?

No.

-- Now Town changes the mind all the time - but he said "no". Just untrue. He absolutely said that he would "Prefer to IDPTG".--

3) Then there is this:
all you galz.. I know you want it.

This is stupid.

Not you, the lynch.

I cannot believe people prefer this to EFHW

- So like, yeah time had passed but nothing had really surfaced on EFHW. Why is it "we need to do IDP" and then all of a sudden "I can't believe we are doing IDP instead of EFHW?". Then he ends up on EFHW?

But like then there is this...
all you galz.. I know you want it.

This is stupid.

Not you, the lynch.

I cannot believe people prefer this to EFHW

There's no case on IDPTG. And he's literally done the EXACT same thing he did in his last town game - RVS vote that stayed the entire time because it developed into a scum read.

So he has no case against him because he is acting EXACTLY THE SAME... but then (as this is the first of the quotes mentioned above) the rest followed.

Galz is the nutz at telling when Faust is off right? Faust was off... but not skum, just Town PR. Which skum would know is the only "off" option.
This is way to many changes on a potential TvT wagon situation than makes sense. Hell, it doesn't make sense in any scenario.

This seems like a lot over a small amount of interaction.

Vote: Galz

This is truly an impressive amount of analysis given that itís based on your misreading ďPrefer to idpĒ which is correctly interpreted as ďIím voting EFHW since I prefer her Lynch to idpísĒ

I read it as ďprefer to do IDPĒ as opposed to ďpreferred over IDPĒ.
Yes English is my primary language. This was just a stupid error. Sorry for time wasted.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: Swowl on April 14, 2018, 12:38:29 am
If datswan isnít a native speaker I owe him an apology as the tongue in cheek tone I used would be pretty uncalled for.
nah we good man. I goofed on that one.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 14, 2018, 12:58:35 am
(http://45.media.tumblr.com/a69923e25e5a29425c3c89985a864514/tumblr_n6naurcmMV1rm146oo1_500.gif)
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 14, 2018, 12:59:06 am
By the way. Hamilton.

AMAZE!
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: Swowl on April 14, 2018, 01:01:53 am
Another question for datswan: can you please explain your vote on e from a little while ago?

Sure - I mean tbf it was a light vote, but the idea was...

1) 2.7 mentioned that he thought either Galz or I was Skum.

2) 2.7 posted a reads list way back on D1. He bumps it beginning of the day of day today. There are other things I will get to about it later, but in relevance to this question - he TRs me.

3) Then I turn skummy all of a sudden when he votes me. He follows this up with logic that I just utterly disagree with. And this is where it could just be bias... but as skum I try to get votes in on one of my partners ALL THE TIME. Great play for people that go back and read D1 later looking for voting tendencies.

Mainly it has to do with the fact that I do think Galz is skum. I planned to jump right back on Galz at the beginning of the day, but after the vote on me and the comment about one of us being skum I assumed it would give Skum too much of an avenue to wagon me if I went for Galz right there. Didn't like losing out on information I wanted to gather so I decided to bat a bush and see what happens. My #2 skum read jumped on the train and then I switched off to Galz.

That was the logic at the time. Should be noted that there has been time since the vote and now - and 2.7 has dropped far down on my skum radar list so to speak. More likely Town just trying to put something together.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 14, 2018, 01:06:25 am
Another question for datswan: can you please explain your vote on e from a little while ago?

Sure - I mean tbf it was a light vote, but the idea was...
lalight isn't in the game!
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 14, 2018, 01:15:23 am
My #2 skum read jumped on the train and then I switched off to Galz.
Whose that? I don't see anyone else voting for 2.7.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: Swowl on April 14, 2018, 01:25:31 am
My #2 skum read jumped on the train and then I switched off to Galz.
Whose that? I don't see anyone else voting for 2.7.

Wow I have to stop posting from my phone. Thought Robz voted for E, not O.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 14, 2018, 01:33:08 am
My #2 skum read jumped on the train and then I switched off to Galz.
Whose that? I don't see anyone else voting for 2.7.

Wow I have to stop posting from my phone. Thought Robz voted for E, not O.
Wassup Bitches!
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 14, 2018, 01:33:47 am
Sorry. I have been drinking. Again. And again.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 14, 2018, 01:39:19 am
The only thing that would make Hamilton better is if Bojack Horseman was in it.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: SpaceAnemone on April 14, 2018, 09:10:15 am
Two more re-reads! Howcome mcmc had to die N1, and not someone else from the set of people I hadn't gone through in detail yet? :-( I still have EFHW, O and gkreig to do.

Galzria: Did the questions-in-thread thing early on that people thought sounded forced. Not sure whether or not I'd have asked stuff in-thread, but then I came in to the game knowing I'd written code to analyse this setup before. Jokes with e about being the SKand soemhow doesn't come away sounding. Calls Robz scummy for being meta-aware, but never votes. Scumreads TWM for his dama thing; pushes that case for quite a while. Eventually votes mcmc for defending TWM, saying he was pushing TWM to see how people reacted. Then after TWM votes EFHW, Galz immediately questions it.. so how much is scum-hunting and how much is actual TWM suspicion? Then has a big outage and a prod. I have mixed views about the thing where scum are more likely to want consolidation of wagons. I can kind of see where he's coming from, but scum are the ones who get to kill at night, so town's the side at the big disadvantage if we can't lynch people. #436: has Galz written a vote tracker, or spent a lot of time on this? Comes out strongly against lynching Robz or IDP, then unvotes. Feels out traction for O, then goes for e in retaliation for a post where e criticized him. Tries to encourage several of us to join the e wagon. I was actively re-reading at that point, but found e quite townie. Seems to be convinced that e could still be on the table a couple of hours before the deadline. Never gives a good explanation for why EFHW wasn't a good backup option for a lynch. Only one post so far in D2. Seems to be one of the more confident people here (particularly the thing about not believing his vote was malformed), but I'm not sure how alignment-indicative that sort of behaviour is for Galz.

Cuzz: Only 12 game posts! Nothing very useful in the four for D1 (mild townread on Robz). Comes into D2 admitting that he's not reading the full game, but that he's re-reading O because it might be scum!O. Then immediately calls Datswan scummy too. Agrees with O on something, asks Datswan a bunch of questions. Makes a minimal empty comment to Robz. Comes back and says that O is the normal O. He's only engaged/talked about Robz, O and Datswan in D2, and it's definitely not because others aren't posting. Is O too experienced to be super-cautious about mentioning scumbuddies in-thread or anything like that? (I'm not scum: he did answer a thing I'd said in D1!).
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: O on April 14, 2018, 09:22:45 am
Is O too experienced to be super-cautious about mentioning scumbuddies in-thread or anything like that? (I'm not scum: he did answer a thing I'd said in D1!).

Not entirely sure what this is asking... but to answer I usually try to get super angry at my scumbuddies and get them lynched at least once in the early days of a game, more fun that way. On a more serious note, I tend to ignore who my scumbuddies are while i'm posting early days so I think I'm pretty good about not avoiding them.

But if there's someone I've ignored this game let me know and I'll be happy to start trying to lynch them.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: O on April 14, 2018, 09:25:53 am
I wonder if the easy explanation for why MCMC got killed is the right one.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: iguanaiguana on April 14, 2018, 09:53:44 am
8 Chinese brothers,
well, there's a reason why the last is smiling wide
and sitting higher than the others,
swinging his arms.
(https://youtu.be/CaXvayF2vog?t=55)
Vote count 2.3
O (2): gkrieg13, Robz888
gkrieg13 (1): O
DatSwan (2): 2.71828..., The_Wine_Merchant
Galzria (1): DatSwan

not voting (6): SpaceAnemone, Galzria, Cuzz, EFHW

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 2 ends Wednesday, April 18 at 9pm forum time.

Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: Robz888 on April 14, 2018, 12:27:49 pm
I wonder if the easy explanation for why MCMC got killed is the right one.

Sometimes the hard thing and the right thing are the same thing.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: SpaceAnemone on April 14, 2018, 01:24:35 pm
I wonder if the easy explanation for why MCMC got killed is the right one.

Sometimes the hard thing and the right thing are the same thing.

I nailed you last time as the SK at a point in the game where you later said you'd turned the scumminess up on your posts to draw early heat to avoid a later lynch (or something close to those lines). What's the take-home for game tone from this latest post from you here in this game?

Earlier you explicitly said that clutter is anti-town. Now I'm wondering precisely what you're intending as far as people reading you, and how that reflects on your alignment here.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: O on April 14, 2018, 01:30:37 pm
Vote: Robz

sometimes the stupid answer is the right answer. MCMC always seems to end up trying to lynch Robz out of brotherly love or something. It makes sense that scum!Robz, either SK or Mafia, would shoot MCMC.

Also agree re:Space that Robz seems almost intentionally cryptic. Also OMGUS.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 14, 2018, 01:47:38 pm
Vote: Robz

sometimes the stupid answer is the right answer. MCMC always seems to end up trying to lynch Robz out of brotherly love or something. It makes sense that scum!Robz, either SK or Mafia, would shoot MCMC.

Also agree re:Space that Robz seems almost intentionally cryptic. Also OMGUS.

My read on datswan has faded with his recent posts. Still on the scummy spectrum, but I am willing to go back and explore other options.

Vote: Robz

Also to note: we are sitting at 10 alive, 4 scum (3 mafia 1 SK). Mislynch with 2 town deaths leaves us with 7 alive, 3 scum, 1 SK. So today's lynch is critical to hit scum.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: SpaceAnemone on April 14, 2018, 03:26:54 pm
Is O too experienced to be super-cautious about mentioning scumbuddies in-thread or anything like that? (I'm not scum: he did answer a thing I'd said in D1!).

Not entirely sure what this is asking... but to answer I usually try to get super angry at my scumbuddies and get them lynched at least once in the early days of a game, more fun that way. On a more serious note, I tend to ignore who my scumbuddies are while i'm posting early days so I think I'm pretty good about not avoiding them.

But if there's someone I've ignored this game let me know and I'll be happy to start trying to lynch them.

Reading back over what I wrote, I totally meant to ask that about Cuzz and not about you! I'd been noting Cuzz's behaviour towards you -- a drawn-out null of scumreading enough to announce his intent in-thread to re-read, and then rather later announcing lack of suspicion after all -- so I'd just typed "O" a bunch of times, and evidently forgotten how to type "Cuzz".

You yourself are my last big unknown, given that at least I felt an earlier scummy vibe from EFHW and townily-non-homicidal one from gkrieg. I'll remember to take a note of exactly who you ignore when I do my re-read...
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: SpaceAnemone on April 14, 2018, 03:30:52 pm
Vote: Robz is actually reasonable. I'd like him to reappear in the game and answer some questions at least.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: Robz888 on April 14, 2018, 04:55:15 pm
Vote: Robz is actually reasonable. I'd like him to reappear in the game and answer some questions at least.

What questions should I answer? EFHW asked me one, I answered it.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: SpaceAnemone on April 14, 2018, 06:23:07 pm
Vote: Robz is actually reasonable. I'd like him to reappear in the game and answer some questions at least.

What questions should I answer? EFHW asked me one, I answered it.

How about stuff I asked at #628.

Also, your answer to EFHW could very easily be described as "lacklustre", but also as kind of misleading. I'd read your the sentence "I did state it publicly" to mean that you'd stated your reason not to vote EFHW publicly, since those were the lines along which EFHW's question was clearly heading. It turns out that as far as I can see, all you stated publicly was the sentence "I donít like the EFHW wagon". Even then, you voted for her in the run-up to the D1 deadline. You still have "I have been forced to accept that lackluster play is a town tell for you" in your sig, but I also know you're a very meta-aware player, so I'm definitely not awarding any townpoints for that level of response.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: Robz888 on April 14, 2018, 06:52:20 pm
Vote: Robz is actually reasonable. I'd like him to reappear in the game and answer some questions at least.

What questions should I answer? EFHW asked me one, I answered it.

How about stuff I asked at #628.

Also, your answer to EFHW could very easily be described as "lacklustre", but also as kind of misleading. I'd read your the sentence "I did state it publicly" to mean that you'd stated your reason not to vote EFHW publicly, since those were the lines along which EFHW's question was clearly heading. It turns out that as far as I can see, all you stated publicly was the sentence "I donít like the EFHW wagon". Even then, you voted for her in the run-up to the D1 deadline. You still have "I have been forced to accept that lackluster play is a town tell for you" in your sig, but I also know you're a very meta-aware player, so I'm definitely not awarding any townpoints for that level of response.

This is what I was referring to with EFHW:

unvote. Embarrassed to admit I conflated posts by e and Galzria. Galzria didn't claim to have ignored the setup, which was part of my "scumread".

A very townie admission I think.

But I'm wrong, in that it occurred before I voted EFHW anyway, because of her vote count correction-ing.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: Robz888 on April 14, 2018, 06:53:39 pm
I wonder if the easy explanation for why MCMC got killed is the right one.

Sometimes the hard thing and the right thing are the same thing.

I nailed you last time as the SK at a point in the game where you later said you'd turned the scumminess up on your posts to draw early heat to avoid a later lynch (or something close to those lines). What's the take-home for game tone from this latest post from you here in this game?

Earlier you explicitly said that clutter is anti-town. Now I'm wondering precisely what you're intending as far as people reading you, and how that reflects on your alignment here.

Is there an actual question in there?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: iguanaiguana on April 14, 2018, 08:54:01 pm
You would probably die before you shot up 9 miles high,
your eyes dilated as light plays upon the sight
of TVC16 as it sings you goodnight.
Relaxed as hell and locked up in cell 45,
I hope you're feeling better.
(https://youtu.be/CaXvayF2vog?t=73)

Vote count 2.4
O (2): gkrieg13, Robz888
DatSwan (1): The_Wine_Merchant
Galzria (1): DatSwan
Robz888 (3): O, 2.71828..., SpaceAnemone

not voting (3): Galzria, Cuzz, EFHW

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 2 ends Wednesday, April 18 at 9pm forum time.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 14, 2018, 09:21:23 pm
Here, how about telling us who your top 3 town and top 3 scum are
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: SpaceAnemone on April 15, 2018, 08:10:54 am
I wonder if the easy explanation for why MCMC got killed is the right one.

Sometimes the hard thing and the right thing are the same thing.

I nailed you last time as the SK at a point in the game where you later said you'd turned the scumminess up on your posts to draw early heat to avoid a later lynch (or something close to those lines). What's the take-home for game tone from this latest post from you here in this game?

Earlier you explicitly said that clutter is anti-town. Now I'm wondering precisely what you're intending as far as people reading you, and how that reflects on your alignment here.

Is there an actual question in there?

... the one with the question mark on the end is a question. It's a little clumsy in wording, because I had been referring to another game in the previous sentence, and I prefer to avoid ambiguity, but it's definitely following the grammatical structure of a question.

Let's try re-phrasing: what did you expect people to get from #627, in terms of how others would perceive your alignment in this game? Was it meant to play to your "lackluster" town-meta? Were you even referring back to the point about mcmc being a target because apparently he reads gkrieg well (which is what I assume O is referring to), or trying to sound mysterious and simultaneously distracting from useful conversation?
Yes, now it's turned onto three questions...
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 15, 2018, 11:30:30 am
vote: Robz

I think O is still scum though.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 15, 2018, 11:47:17 am
It sure has been a slow weekend
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: Robz888 on April 15, 2018, 12:10:10 pm
Here, how about telling us who your top 3 town and top 3 scum are

Is this directed at me? I don't comply with this kind of busy work requirement. If you want my general impressions, here:

Galz was right about IDP as it turned out, but I don't know, I sort of feel like he was doing the whole "look at me, being against this lynch, town laments, ahhh" thing that scum can do confidently because they know who is scum and who is town. So I am scum reading Galz.

I am also scum reading O, way way more than I am scumreading gkrieg.

TWM and Space feel townie. Cuzz being hopelessly out of it seems more townie than scummy.

Not sure about 2.7 and DatSwan.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: EFHW on April 15, 2018, 01:32:39 pm
unvote. Embarrassed to admit I conflated posts by e and Galzria. Galzria didn't claim to have ignored the setup, which was part of my "scumread".

A very townie admission I think.

But I'm wrong, in that it occurred before I voted EFHW anyway, because of her vote count correction-ing.

Right. So I'm still interested in the answer to my question. Now it is two questions - why did you vote me after having found me townie 4 days before? And what prompted your switch to IDP, with the comment that you much preferred his lynch?

3rd question - how does my vote count correcting fit in?

Vote: EFHW

vote: IDP

Muh preferred lynch
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: Robz888 on April 15, 2018, 02:30:36 pm
unvote. Embarrassed to admit I conflated posts by e and Galzria. Galzria didn't claim to have ignored the setup, which was part of my "scumread".

A very townie admission I think.

But I'm wrong, in that it occurred before I voted EFHW anyway, because of her vote count correction-ing.

Right. So I'm still interested in the answer to my question. Now it is two questions - why did you vote me after having found me townie 4 days before? And what prompted your switch to IDP, with the comment that you much preferred his lynch?

3rd question - how does my vote count correcting fit in?

Vote: EFHW

vote: IDP

Muh preferred lynch

It occurred to me that scum was more likely to point out errors n the vote count, which you did, which soured my earlier declaration of you being town. Then I went back to IDP because at least you were, you know, contributing.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: EFHW on April 15, 2018, 08:22:12 pm
vote: Robz L-1
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: Robz888 on April 15, 2018, 09:09:34 pm
I am a Vanilla Townie.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: O on April 15, 2018, 09:33:19 pm
Antagonistic Robz = PR!Robz or Scum!Robz, not VT Robz. No reason to vote for me and outright refuse to provide a reason when asked if he was a VT, refusing to answer e's question, etc.

I admit it weirded me out how quickly people joined my wagon but only Gkrieg is a scumread among them: EFHW, e, Space all read townie to me -- though e always does. Maybe I'm getting played but I really do think Robz would be playing exceptionally poorly for his norm if he was VT right here.

Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 15, 2018, 09:45:17 pm
It is a very interesting wagon. It took a while, but there were very few posts in that time
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: Robz888 on April 15, 2018, 10:34:08 pm
Antagonistic Robz = PR!Robz or Scum!Robz, not VT Robz. No reason to vote for me and outright refuse to provide a reason when asked if he was a VT, refusing to answer e's question, etc.

I admit it weirded me out how quickly people joined my wagon but only Gkrieg is a scumread among them: EFHW, e, Space all read townie to me -- though e always does. Maybe I'm getting played but I really do think Robz would be playing exceptionally poorly for his norm if he was VT right here.

I love being blamed for my own lynch. What is so terrible about my play? Not having a perfect reason for switching from IDP to EFHW on Day 1?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: Robz888 on April 15, 2018, 10:34:33 pm
It is a very interesting wagon. It took a while, but there were very few posts in that time

What is this supposed to mean?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: Galzria on April 15, 2018, 10:35:30 pm
vote: Robz

Hammertime.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: Robz888 on April 15, 2018, 10:35:34 pm
Look for scum to hammer me here. Itís an easy thing to do, you wonít be blamed later. No one. It was *my* fault after all.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: Robz888 on April 15, 2018, 10:35:48 pm
Galz is scum.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: Robz888 on April 15, 2018, 10:36:32 pm
 Galz is absolutely positively scum. I am essentially a cop with a guilty result.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 15, 2018, 10:54:17 pm
That hammer seemed...premature. I almost unvoted earlier today or posted something about not shortening the day too much
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: O on April 15, 2018, 10:55:22 pm
hm..
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 15, 2018, 10:56:22 pm
Galz is absolutely positively scum. I am essentially a cop with a guilty result.

Don't understand this bit here about being essentially a cop
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: EFHW on April 15, 2018, 10:59:22 pm
Galz is absolutely positively scum. I am essentially a cop with a guilty result.

Don't understand this bit here about being essentially a cop
He thinks Galz's hammer was a scumtell. Not sure it wasn't, assuming Robz flips town.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 15, 2018, 11:01:10 pm
Obviously the flip is important, but if Robz is scum i really hope the SK shoots scum.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 15, 2018, 11:01:22 pm
Obviously the flip is important, but if Robz is scum i really hope the SK shoots scum.

*town
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 15, 2018, 11:01:34 pm
Obviously the flip is important, but if Robz is scum i really hope the SK shoots scum.

*town

If robz is town
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 15, 2018, 11:02:28 pm
Galz is absolutely positively scum. I am essentially a cop with a guilty result.

Don't understand this bit here about being essentially a cop
He thinks Galz's hammer was a scumtell. Not sure it wasn't, assuming Robz flips town.

I don't think it is a safe assumption that Robz flips town.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: O on April 15, 2018, 11:05:24 pm
Galz is absolutely positively scum. I am essentially a cop with a guilty result.

Don't understand this bit here about being essentially a cop
He thinks Galz's hammer was a scumtell. Not sure it wasn't, assuming Robz flips town.

I don't think it is a safe assumption that Robz flips town.

no but if I had to guess the most reasonable explanation for the hammer, it's town robz and scum galz.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: O on April 15, 2018, 11:08:48 pm
actually that's perhaps not true.. would mafia!Galz want to attract a likely SK kill by hammering quickly right here? Scum are put in a pretty good position but its always questionable to pseudo-sacrifice a player. Unless mafia knows who the SK is and wants to RB them anyways..?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: Galzria on April 15, 2018, 11:11:09 pm
Galz is absolutely positively scum. I am essentially a cop with a guilty result.

Don't understand this bit here about being essentially a cop
He thinks Galz's hammer was a scumtell. Not sure it wasn't, assuming Robz flips town.

I don't think it is a safe assumption that Robz flips town.

Nor I. And Robz play today has been intentionally cryptic, noncommittal, and at times seemingly intentionally provocative. As (EFHW?) said earlier - Robz last game admitted to intentionally trying to draw attention because he felt he could argue off his lynch and coast to easy days later. He didn't offer an explanation for his gameplay here when it was brought up, and in fact intentionally ignored the point.

I'm far more convinced of his likelihood to flip scum than IDPTG, which I stand by being a horrendous lynch, and I will not let him spin that wagon to paint me scummy for calling it such.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: O on April 15, 2018, 11:14:35 pm
Galz is absolutely positively scum. I am essentially a cop with a guilty result.

Don't understand this bit here about being essentially a cop
He thinks Galz's hammer was a scumtell. Not sure it wasn't, assuming Robz flips town.

I don't think it is a safe assumption that Robz flips town.

Nor I. And Robz play today has been intentionally cryptic, noncommittal, and at times seemingly intentionally provocative. As (EFHW?) said earlier - Robz last game admitted to intentionally trying to draw attention because he felt he could argue off his lynch and coast to easy days later. He didn't offer an explanation for his gameplay here when it was brought up, and in fact intentionally ignored the point.

I'm far more convinced of his likelihood to flip scum than IDPTG, which I stand by being a horrendous lynch, and I will not let him spin that wagon to paint me scummy for calling it such.

why not announce intent to hammer? I get robz had already claimed VT but still, town players dont have much to fear from longer decision making times.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: Galzria on April 15, 2018, 11:17:37 pm
Galz is absolutely positively scum. I am essentially a cop with a guilty result.

Don't understand this bit here about being essentially a cop
He thinks Galz's hammer was a scumtell. Not sure it wasn't, assuming Robz flips town.

I don't think it is a safe assumption that Robz flips town.

Nor I. And Robz play today has been intentionally cryptic, noncommittal, and at times seemingly intentionally provocative. As (EFHW?) said earlier - Robz last game admitted to intentionally trying to draw attention because he felt he could argue off his lynch and coast to easy days later. He didn't offer an explanation for his gameplay here when it was brought up, and in fact intentionally ignored the point.

I'm far more convinced of his likelihood to flip scum than IDPTG, which I stand by being a horrendous lynch, and I will not let him spin that wagon to paint me scummy for calling it such.

why not announce intent to hammer? I get robz had already claimed VT but still, town players dont have much to fear from longer decision making times.

Because town has tenancy to get cold feet, something I'm sure he was banking on.

If I had announced intent, do you believe nobody would've unvoted?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: O on April 15, 2018, 11:23:28 pm
Galz is absolutely positively scum. I am essentially a cop with a guilty result.

Don't understand this bit here about being essentially a cop
He thinks Galz's hammer was a scumtell. Not sure it wasn't, assuming Robz flips town.

I don't think it is a safe assumption that Robz flips town.

Nor I. And Robz play today has been intentionally cryptic, noncommittal, and at times seemingly intentionally provocative. As (EFHW?) said earlier - Robz last game admitted to intentionally trying to draw attention because he felt he could argue off his lynch and coast to easy days later. He didn't offer an explanation for his gameplay here when it was brought up, and in fact intentionally ignored the point.

I'm far more convinced of his likelihood to flip scum than IDPTG, which I stand by being a horrendous lynch, and I will not let him spin that wagon to paint me scummy for calling it such.

why not announce intent to hammer? I get robz had already claimed VT but still, town players dont have much to fear from longer decision making times.

Because town has tenancy to get cold feet, something I'm sure he was banking on.

If I had announced intent, do you believe nobody would've unvoted?

I mean me and e demonstrated our lack of intent to unvote and EFHW put him to L-1, so I do think it's pretty likely it would have went through.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: O on April 15, 2018, 11:25:00 pm
Antagonistic Robz = PR!Robz or Scum!Robz, not VT Robz. No reason to vote for me and outright refuse to provide a reason when asked if he was a VT, refusing to answer e's question, etc.

I admit it weirded me out how quickly people joined my wagon but only Gkrieg is a scumread among them: EFHW, e, Space all read townie to me -- though e always does. Maybe I'm getting played but I really do think Robz would be playing exceptionally poorly for his norm if he was VT right here.

I love being blamed for my own lynch. What is so terrible about my play? Not having a perfect reason for switching from IDP to EFHW on Day 1?

I'm pretty sure I didn't mention IDP or EFHW and did mention your refusal to list reads or give an explanation for your vote on me, btw
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: Cuzz on April 15, 2018, 11:46:26 pm
maaaan...
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 15, 2018, 11:54:29 pm
Galz is absolutely positively scum. I am essentially a cop with a guilty result.

Don't understand this bit here about being essentially a cop
He thinks Galz's hammer was a scumtell. Not sure it wasn't, assuming Robz flips town.

I don't think it is a safe assumption that Robz flips town.

Nor I. And Robz play today has been intentionally cryptic, noncommittal, and at times seemingly intentionally provocative. As (EFHW?) said earlier - Robz last game admitted to intentionally trying to draw attention because he felt he could argue off his lynch and coast to easy days later. He didn't offer an explanation for his gameplay here when it was brought up, and in fact intentionally ignored the point.

I'm far more convinced of his likelihood to flip scum than IDPTG, which I stand by being a horrendous lynch, and I will not let him spin that wagon to paint me scummy for calling it such.

why not announce intent to hammer? I get robz had already claimed VT but still, town players dont have much to fear from longer decision making times.

Because town has tenancy to get cold feet, something I'm sure he was banking on.

If I had announced intent, do you believe nobody would've unvoted?

I would have been very tempted to unvote
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 15, 2018, 11:56:05 pm
All in all, I like the adhesive play from Galzria regardless of his alignment and the flip.

I feel like it is the type of play people generally get in trouble for, and I respect people who go out on the line like that.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: 2.71828..... on April 15, 2018, 11:56:37 pm
 doesn't mean he isn't scum though. We just need a flip now
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: Robz888 on April 16, 2018, 12:20:08 am
Might be Galz is mafia and he legit thought I am the SK because my play here appeared somewhat similar to last game (accidentally soóI did not draw suspicion on purpose like last game and am a bit mystified this happened).
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 16, 2018, 12:36:50 am
Fine with the lynch but wouldíve appreciated it not to be on the weekend when people donít generally go back and reread things.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: SpaceAnemone on April 16, 2018, 08:16:11 am
I don't mind weekends (I'm more likely to have free time at a weekend than during the week), but overnight deadlines, and waking up to a lynch that happened when it wasn't even a deadline(!) are difficult. Galz could maybe do a better job of explaining why that happened.

I still think Robz has a strong chance of flipping as some sort of scum. He's been super-evasive and barely contributed to scum-hunting at all except by retrospective explanation that some of his early wagon-jumping was meant to be provoking responses. I don't really get the motivation for mafia!Robz or SK!Robz to play it so close to the last game, but exactly the same can be said for town!Robz, and "playing for his next scum game" is not a meta I agree with. How long till we see the flip??
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D1 Down the Deep River)
Post by: iguanaiguana on April 16, 2018, 08:21:35 am
You were caught kissing 8 Chinese brothers.
But there's a reason why the last is smiling wide and sitting higher than the others,
Stinking with charm. And he says, "Lets get lost, let them send out alarms."
He says, "Let's get crossed out and come to harm.
Lets make the world's stupidest stand and truly mean it.
Let's hit the limit of loss over lover's arms...
...no, let's exceed it."
(https://youtu.be/CaXvayF2vog?t=168)

Day 2 Final Vote Count
O (1): Robz888
DatSwan (1): The_Wine_Merchant
Galzria (1): DatSwan
Robz888 (6): O, 2.71828..., SpaceAnemone, gkrieg13, EFHW, Galzria

not voting (1): Cuzz

With 10 alive, it took 6 to lynch.

Thread Locked.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D2: [Day One Plus Ones])
Post by: iguanaiguana on April 16, 2018, 08:27:57 am
So does the ink dry out?
So does the singing mouth get sung up?
So does the new headline no longer reach the town?
So does the rosy fire of the horizon fade into dull grey
While the trees out by the parking lot get greener with the rain?
(https://youtu.be/w18kH2KdfS8?t=20)
Robz888 was a Vanilla Townie!

I'm coming into your town. Night is falling to the ground.
But I can still see where you loved yourself
before he tore it all down.
(https://youtu.be/9K7RokHjYd4?t=13)
Night Two begins now and last until April 18, ~8:30AM forum time. Night actions are due by April 18 at 12:30AM forum time.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: iguanaiguana on April 18, 2018, 08:30:16 am

And at the funeral the university
cried at three poems they'd present in place of a broken me.
I was breaking in a case of suds
at the brass rail, a fall-down drunk
[...]
and I knew that my last lines were gone
while stupidly I lingered on.
Other wise men know
when it's time to go and so I should too.
 (https://youtu.be/nOK7ownE3Hg?t=70)

2.71828... has died in the night. He was John Allyn Smith, a drunk.

Remember when our so-called friend would not call out to you
while tumbling loosely out a hole punched through your home?
(https://youtu.be/OphOQn1RvcU)
Day 3 Starts now!

Vote count 3.0

not voting (8): The_Wine_Merchant, DatSwan, SpaceAnemone, Galzria, Cuzz, EFHW, O, Gkrieg13

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 2 ends Wednesday, April 25 at 8:30am forum time.

Thread unlocked!
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 18, 2018, 10:02:24 am
Thatís four letters. That means scum has some stronger powers.

Also the one night kill probably means that scum blocked SK or shot SK, so they probably know who the SK is. Which also means we are at MYLO
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: EFHW on April 18, 2018, 10:08:41 am
1. Robz Vanilla Town T
2. IDontPlayThisGame Vanilla Town T
3. McMcsalot Universal Backup L
4. e Drunk {PP or OO, less likely LLLL}
...
12. Faust Tracker (not Will Sheff) O
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: EFHW on April 18, 2018, 10:12:55 am
Thatís four letters. That means scum has some stronger powers.

Also the one night kill probably means that scum blocked SK or shot SK, so they probably know who the SK is. Which also means we are at MYLO

I don't think 1 nk means scum know who the SK is. e could have targeted one nk target and also been the target for the other party, or just been targeted by both. Shooting the SK wouldn't have stopped the SK kill.

Daunting to know that 50% of "town" are actually not.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: EFHW on April 18, 2018, 10:16:20 am
Thatís four letters. That means scum has some stronger powers.

Also could be 3 letters (L and 2 O's).
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 18, 2018, 10:19:45 am
Thatís four letters. That means scum has some stronger powers.

Also could be 3 letters (L and 2 O's).

The letter for the SK
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 18, 2018, 10:22:56 am
Thatís four letters. That means scum has some stronger powers.

Also the one night kill probably means that scum blocked SK or shot SK, so they probably know who the SK is. Which also means we are at MYLO

I don't think 1 nk means scum know who the SK is. e could have targeted one nk target and also been the target for the other party, or just been targeted by both. Shooting the SK wouldn't have stopped the SK kill.

Daunting to know that 50% of "town" are actually not.

E being targeted by both kills is the only way that mafia donít know SK. If they shot the SK it doesnít block their kill, but it does block mafiaís kill (in the sense that SK is bulletproof
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 18, 2018, 10:23:44 am
Iíll do rereads later this week probably.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: EFHW on April 18, 2018, 11:11:06 am
Thatís four letters. That means scum has some stronger powers.

Also the one night kill probably means that scum blocked SK or shot SK, so they probably know who the SK is. Which also means we are at MYLO

I don't think 1 nk means scum know who the SK is. e could have targeted one nk target and also been the target for the other party, or just been targeted by both. Shooting the SK wouldn't have stopped the SK kill.

Daunting to know that 50% of "town" are actually not.

E being targeted by both kills is the only way that mafia donít know SK. If they shot the SK it doesnít block their kill, but it does block mafiaís kill (in the sense that SK is bulletproof
Ok, that works.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: EFHW on April 18, 2018, 11:13:52 am

1. Robz Vanilla Town T
2. IDontPlayThisGame Vanilla Town T
3. McMcsalot Universal Backup L
4. e Drunk {PP or OO, less likely LLLL}
...
12. Faust Tracker (not Will Sheff) O
...
?? Unknown SK S
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: EFHW on April 18, 2018, 11:15:43 am
1. Robz Vanilla Town T
2. IDontPlayThisGame Vanilla Town T
3. McMcsalot Universal Backup L
4. e Drunk {PP or OO, less likely LLLL}
...
12. Faust Tracker (not Will Sheff) O or LL
...
?? Unknown SK S
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: O on April 18, 2018, 11:42:13 am
Is there some reason you two have discounted bulletproofer?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: EFHW on April 18, 2018, 12:07:08 pm
Is there some reason you two have discounted bulletproofer?
Nope.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: Cuzz on April 18, 2018, 12:58:25 pm
I feel like we should not overthink this and just lynch Galz. Weíre kinda screwed anyway.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: O on April 18, 2018, 01:01:16 pm
I feel like we should not overthink this and just lynch Galz. Weíre kinda screwed anyway.

Ok so Cuzz is town because scum would never plunge directly in like this.

Also, I do mostly agree.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 18, 2018, 01:10:58 pm
Is there some reason you two have discounted bulletproofer?
Nope.

Nope.  I just think the other reasons are more likely.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 18, 2018, 01:12:12 pm
I think it is probably time for a massclaim.  We have a chance to make the lynch pool smaller here.  I do agree with Cuzz.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: O on April 18, 2018, 01:13:30 pm
oh wow Gkrieg and EHFW have had some terribley wrong analysis.

Quote
1. Robz Vanilla Town T
2. IDontPlayThisGame Vanilla Town T

There isn't a 1:1 correspondence of rolls: roles. EG: GG = 1 Dayvig. So I'm pretty positive that you can't confirm a T role for each VT that flips

Quote
E being targeted by both kills is the only way that mafia donít know SK. If they shot the SK it doesnít block their kill, but it does block mafiaís kill (in the sense that SK is bulletproof

Besides the bulletproofer I already mentioned, mafia seem to be pretttyyy likely to have a one shot rolestopper?

So a possible outcome is that mafia rolestopped the SK victim



Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: O on April 18, 2018, 01:14:40 pm
I think it is probably time for a massclaim.  We have a chance to make the lynch pool smaller here.  I do agree with Cuzz.

I think we should not massclaim and actually lynch Gkrieg instead.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: O on April 18, 2018, 01:16:19 pm
Maybe still lynch Galzria, but under no circumstances massclaim.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: EFHW on April 18, 2018, 01:32:54 pm
Agree with O about mass claim. Town with helpful information can decide when the nest time is to speak up.

What is another way someone could flip vt?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 18, 2018, 01:40:09 pm
oh wow Gkrieg and EHFW have had some terribley wrong analysis.

Quote
1. Robz Vanilla Town T
2. IDontPlayThisGame Vanilla Town T

There isn't a 1:1 correspondence of rolls: roles. EG: GG = 1 Dayvig. So I'm pretty positive that you can't confirm a T role for each VT that flips

Quote
E being targeted by both kills is the only way that mafia donít know SK. If they shot the SK it doesnít block their kill, but it does block mafiaís kill (in the sense that SK is bulletproof

Besides the bulletproofer I already mentioned, mafia seem to be pretttyyy likely to have a one shot rolestopper?

So a possible outcome is that mafia rolestopped the SK victim

The analysis of mine is saying that there are at least 4 letters accounted for, which means that at most there are 2 Ts.  I get that roles aren't 1:1, but if you actually read the setup, you will see that for the town PRs that have flipped, there is no way to get those PRs with fewer than 4 letters.  That means that mafia has one of:

TT: Tracker OR Townrole Cop, 1-shot Roleblocker, 1-shot Rolestopper, one randomly chosen mafia is hidden Commuter
T: Tracker OR Townrole Cop, Roleblocker and Rolestopper with 5 communal shots, hidden Commuter
0T: Tracker OR Townrole Cop, Roleblocker and Rolestopper with 5 communal shots, hidden Commuter, Daytalk for Day 3 only
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 18, 2018, 01:41:36 pm
I think it is probably time for a massclaim.  We have a chance to make the lynch pool smaller here.  I do agree with Cuzz.

I think we should not massclaim and actually lynch Gkrieg instead.

Really?  The fact that I propose a massclaim is reason enough to lynch me? 
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 18, 2018, 01:44:31 pm
It's also possible that SK knows who one member of the mafia is, because mafia has a hidden commuter on one of them.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: O on April 18, 2018, 01:44:48 pm
Agree with O about mass claim. Town with helpful information can decide when the nest time is to speak up.

What is another way someone could flip vt?

Am I misreading the setup? There are only 6 rolls of the numbers for the 10 town (or sk) players. You could have zero "t" rolls and have GGGGOO to get:

 Tracker, Named Tracker, Drunk, Dayvig, Dayvig and 5 VTs.


PPE: Ah, the claim is that there are at most two T rolls, not at least. That's much more believable although I haven't gone through that yet.


Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: Galzria on April 18, 2018, 02:47:21 pm
Look, I know the hammer (in light of Robz' flip) looks scummy as hell - but why the *&%$ would scum!Galz have needed or wanted to do that there? Like, what's the winning strategy for him there? Yeah, it sucks that Robz flipped town - but I wasn't the only one who believed that there was a decent chance that he wouldn't.

IF YOU LYNCH ME HERE:

D3:
4 Town
3 Mafia
1 SK

N3:
3 Town
3 Mafia
1 SK

*Mafia likely know who the SK is at this point. If we are in a 1T or 0T game, they can likely block the SK kill N3, and shoot town.
D4:
2 Town
3 Mafia
1SK

Mafia will win out by default here. It's a forced no-lynch, Mafia can (likely) block SK again N4, and then lynch him D5.

If we are in a 2T game, then there are a few ways N3 could break down:

"The best case" - N3: Mafia shoots the SK, SK shoots Mafia (and doesn't hit the hidden commuter):
D4:
3 Town
2 Mafia
1 SK

This at least allows town the option to lynch Mafia still (SK lynch = town loss). Mafia could then kill the SK at night, and if the SK kills the final Mafia then town wins. If SK kills town here then we go to the final day in traditional LyLo - 2 Town 1 Mafia.


"The second best case": Mafia shoots town, SK shoots Mafia (and doesn't hit the hidden commuter)
D4:
2 Town
2 Mafia
1 SK

Here town could still lynch Mafia with the help of the SK.
N4:
2 Town
1 Mafia
1 SK

Rock-Paper-Scissors? If the Mafioso is the Hidden Commuter that favors Mafia. If the SK is still Bullet Proof that favors SK. Either way doesn't look SUUUUUPER great for town, but it's town's best chance.

Almost all other options for a 2T game result in a town loss.

----------

My recommendation here is that if you are all dead set on lynching me, you should have a DayVig (if there is one) shoot me first. This resets the vote count and continues the day without putting us to night and allowing for the SK/Mafia to shoot. This will then continue the day with the following setup:

D3:
3 Town (DayVig IC, Named Tracker can claim)
3 Mafia
1 SK

While this is strictly worse than what we have now - at least you won't have a full cycle of night kills following a town lynch. If you think I'm the SK here then shooting me will burn my bullet-proof and leave us right where we started except I'm now exposed to Mafia NK. And if nothing else, you end up with 2 of the 3 town remaining as IC's, which is going to give you the best chances going forward (as SK still needs to shoot Mafia each night, at most 1 town can die to Mafia kills nightly).

----------

That said, if there IS a DayVig, what would be FAR better than shooting me here is shooting Mafia. I think regardless (and those with better game theory than I, feel free to input thoughts here): Should we have the votes for a lynch, we should give any potential DayVig the opportunity to shoot that person first, rather than risking the night cycle of kills.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 18, 2018, 03:10:24 pm
Look, I know the hammer (in light of Robz' flip) looks scummy as hell - but why the *&%$ would scum!Galz have needed or wanted to do that there? Like, what's the winning strategy for him there? Yeah, it sucks that Robz flipped town - but I wasn't the only one who believed that there was a decent chance that he wouldn't.

snipped

I'm pretty sure scum starting the day with 7 people alive and 3 of them scum is pretty good for them.  I also think that you would have an identical opening post today if you were scum here.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: Galzria on April 18, 2018, 03:13:58 pm
Look, I know the hammer (in light of Robz' flip) looks scummy as hell - but why the *&%$ would scum!Galz have needed or wanted to do that there? Like, what's the winning strategy for him there? Yeah, it sucks that Robz flipped town - but I wasn't the only one who believed that there was a decent chance that he wouldn't.

snipped

I'm pretty sure scum starting the day with 7 people alive and 3 of them scum is pretty good for them.  I also think that you would have an identical opening post today if you were scum here.

Yes, it is good for them. I acknowledged as much. Do you have a point? It's also FAR better for them to have 8 alive, with 3 scum, and lynch town. Hence all that goodness of the "snip" you put in there.

Unwritten insinuation in bold: You know that I'm not.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on April 18, 2018, 03:37:27 pm
Right, this should be solving time! I'm definitely going to weigh in on the solving chat as soon as I'm sure my probabilities thing is right.

I started fixing it overnight, but got lazy/busy and figured it was optimal to wait till I was sure I'm still alive... the fact that both gkrieg and Galz seem to have put a load of time into thinking this out when they're both people who as town should be more worried about being the NK than I am is not an encouraging sign.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 18, 2018, 03:41:37 pm
Look, I know the hammer (in light of Robz' flip) looks scummy as hell - but why the *&%$ would scum!Galz have needed or wanted to do that there? Like, what's the winning strategy for him there? Yeah, it sucks that Robz flipped town - but I wasn't the only one who believed that there was a decent chance that he wouldn't.

snipped

I'm pretty sure scum starting the day with 7 people alive and 3 of them scum is pretty good for them.  I also think that you would have an identical opening post today if you were scum here.

Yes, it is good for them. I acknowledged as much. Do you have a point? It's also FAR better for them to have 8 alive, with 3 scum, and lynch town. Hence all that goodness of the "snip" you put in there.

Unwritten insinuation in bold: You know that I'm not.

In your post you were assuming you were town, which was most of your argument.  Saying that it was better to lynch scum than it is to lynch you because you are town.  I was only saying that I would expect you to make that exact post as scum.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 18, 2018, 03:43:23 pm
Right, this should be solving time! I'm definitely going to weigh in on the solving chat as soon as I'm sure my probabilities thing is right.

I started fixing it overnight, but got lazy/busy and figured it was optimal to wait till I was sure I'm still alive... the fact that both gkrieg and Galz seem to have put a load of time into thinking this out when they're both people who as town should be more worried about being the NK than I am is not an encouraging sign.

I obviously haven't put that much time into thinking anything out.  I saw that there was only one night kill and that a PR died and could very quickly look at the setup and conclude that we have 4 letters accounted for and that it is likely (obviously there are other possibilities) that mafia know who SK is or SK knows who mafia is.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: O on April 18, 2018, 03:46:41 pm
@Gkrieg

Why did you think proposing a massclaim was remotely a reasonable option, and why do you think I should not just try to lynch you for SK + potential Dayvig hunting as scum?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: O on April 18, 2018, 03:48:30 pm
Ugh Gkrieg is so freaking scummy but if I distract from a Galz lynch and he's scum I'm either immediately losing the game or getting myself lynched later and losing the game.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: Galzria on April 18, 2018, 03:52:40 pm
Look, I know the hammer (in light of Robz' flip) looks scummy as hell - but why the *&%$ would scum!Galz have needed or wanted to do that there? Like, what's the winning strategy for him there? Yeah, it sucks that Robz flipped town - but I wasn't the only one who believed that there was a decent chance that he wouldn't.

snipped

I'm pretty sure scum starting the day with 7 people alive and 3 of them scum is pretty good for them.  I also think that you would have an identical opening post today if you were scum here.

Yes, it is good for them. I acknowledged as much. Do you have a point? It's also FAR better for them to have 8 alive, with 3 scum, and lynch town. Hence all that goodness of the "snip" you put in there.

Unwritten insinuation in bold: You know that I'm not.

In your post you were assuming you were town, which was most of your argument.  Saying that it was better to lynch scum than it is to lynch you because you are town.  I was only saying that I would expect you to make that exact post as scum.

I don't think so - but that's not something I can really prove. More though, it misses the point of my post:

Obviously it's "better to lynch scum than it is to lynch me because I'm town" - that isn't the take away you (or anybody) should be having. That's a pointless statement. Lynching town here in a 0T or 1T game means game over, period. Lynching town here in a 2T game still leaves outs, but not great ones. The take away is that if there's a Vig, they should shoot me over lynching "me" (and "me" here is actually generic - They should shoot any player over a lynch here, as it's effectively a lynch with no night cycle). I was primarily focused on myself as an example because (A) I know that I'm town, and (B):

I feel like we should not overthink this and just lynch Galz. Weíre kinda screwed anyway.
I feel like we should not overthink this and just lynch Galz. Weíre kinda screwed anyway.

Ok so Cuzz is town because scum would never plunge directly in like this.

Also, I do mostly agree.
I think it is probably time for a massclaim.  We have a chance to make the lynch pool smaller here.  I do agree with Cuzz.

Add in the fact that Swan is probably also going to continue gunning for my lynch (He's been doing so since D1) and we haven't heard from EFHW, Space, or TWM on this and, well...
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: O on April 18, 2018, 04:09:17 pm
From the non-Galz perspective scum would bus you anyways.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: Galzria on April 18, 2018, 04:20:03 pm
From the non-Galz perspective scum would bus you anyways.

I agree.

I'm perfect lynch-bait because yes, if I were scum, you're right that they would.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 18, 2018, 04:35:14 pm
@Gkrieg

Why did you think proposing a massclaim was remotely a reasonable option, and why do you think I should not just try to lynch you for SK + potential Dayvig hunting as scum?

How is proposing a massclaim SK or dayvig hunting? 

We are at MYLO.  The only PR that we are sure we have is a named tracker (slight chance that they are a JK instead).  It is generally within town's interest to do a massclaim at MYLO, seeing as we need to lynch correctly to win.  Unfortunately SK really makes things more difficult.  Even if we lynch scum today, we aren't assured to not lose tomorrow.  At this point we need to lynch mafia and also give the SK enough information to kill mafia as well.

It is definitely a reasonable option, you can't say stuff like "remotely a reasonable option" without saying why it is so outlandish.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 18, 2018, 04:36:39 pm
Ugh Gkrieg is so freaking scummy but if I distract from a Galz lynch and he's scum I'm either immediately losing the game or getting myself lynched later and losing the game.

What does this even mean.  How am I scummy, and if I were scum, how does lynching me instead of Galzria actually change anything?  And what do you mean by getting yourself lynched later?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 18, 2018, 04:40:33 pm
Look, I know the hammer (in light of Robz' flip) looks scummy as hell - but why the *&%$ would scum!Galz have needed or wanted to do that there? Like, what's the winning strategy for him there? Yeah, it sucks that Robz flipped town - but I wasn't the only one who believed that there was a decent chance that he wouldn't.

snipped

I'm pretty sure scum starting the day with 7 people alive and 3 of them scum is pretty good for them.  I also think that you would have an identical opening post today if you were scum here.

Yes, it is good for them. I acknowledged as much. Do you have a point? It's also FAR better for them to have 8 alive, with 3 scum, and lynch town. Hence all that goodness of the "snip" you put in there.

Unwritten insinuation in bold: You know that I'm not.

In your post you were assuming you were town, which was most of your argument.  Saying that it was better to lynch scum than it is to lynch you because you are town.  I was only saying that I would expect you to make that exact post as scum.

I don't think so - but that's not something I can really prove. More though, it misses the point of my post:

Obviously it's "better to lynch scum than it is to lynch me because I'm town" - that isn't the take away you (or anybody) should be having. That's a pointless statement. Lynching town here in a 0T or 1T game means game over, period. Lynching town here in a 2T game still leaves outs, but not great ones. The take away is that if there's a Vig, they should shoot me over lynching "me" (and "me" here is actually generic - They should shoot any player over a lynch here, as it's effectively a lynch with no night cycle). I was primarily focused on myself as an example because (A) I know that I'm town, and (B):

I feel like we should not overthink this and just lynch Galz. Weíre kinda screwed anyway.
I feel like we should not overthink this and just lynch Galz. Weíre kinda screwed anyway.

Ok so Cuzz is town because scum would never plunge directly in like this.

Also, I do mostly agree.
I think it is probably time for a massclaim.  We have a chance to make the lynch pool smaller here.  I do agree with Cuzz.

Add in the fact that Swan is probably also going to continue gunning for my lynch (He's been doing so since D1) and we haven't heard from EFHW, Space, or TWM on this and, well...

Yes I got that takeaway.  I just remember watching you in the large Robz game (I think 100) having almost the exact same post coming into a day where town was down when you were scum.  Your post reminded me a lot of that game.

There probably isn't a dayvig anyway, so all this speculation about one is very interesting.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 18, 2018, 04:41:48 pm
From the non-Galz perspective scum would bus you anyways.

I agree.

I'm perfect lynch-bait because yes, if I were scum, you're right that they would.


I'm mean galzria you opened the day saying I am too scummy to be scum.  What would you expect?  You also kind of quickhammered Robz with not great reasoning at a time when not a lot of people were around (weekends aren't the best for anyone).
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: O on April 18, 2018, 05:03:18 pm
@Gkrieg

Why did you think proposing a massclaim was remotely a reasonable option, and why do you think I should not just try to lynch you for SK + potential Dayvig hunting as scum?

How is proposing a massclaim SK or dayvig hunting? 

We are at MYLO.  The only PR that we are sure we have is a named tracker (slight chance that they are a JK instead).  It is generally within town's interest to do a massclaim at MYLO, seeing as we need to lynch correctly to win.  Unfortunately SK really makes things more difficult.  Even if we lynch scum today, we aren't assured to not lose tomorrow.  At this point we need to lynch mafia and also give the SK enough information to kill mafia as well.

It is definitely a reasonable option, you can't say stuff like "remotely a reasonable option" without saying why it is so outlandish.

Can you even explain the potential benefits of a massclaim?

The potential harms:

1) Reveal our tracker
2) Depending on claiming order, take a pretty bad 50-50 if scum get a convincing first claim of tracker.
3) Reveal any potential remaining relevant PRs
4) Narrow down who the SK potentially is, who is probably a pseudo-Vig for us right now.

The potential benefits:

1) We get one named tracker as a pseudo-IC... if scum don't counterclaim or claim first
2) Scum probably hide as VT claims for the rest of them, which might narrow the pool, except most town and SK will probably also be claiming VT
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on April 18, 2018, 05:51:14 pm
I've got a set of role distribution probabilities I'm moderately happy with now. It's somewhat weird, because the shape of the distribution is not quite not what I expected. I've more or less satisfied myself that it's correct, though, and that the game setup is just a little weird.

I think there are 14 possible combinations of roles left for the game, with each one arising from between 7 and 33 different starting rolls/W-substitutions. From these combinations, I derive the following:

Probability of 4 town roles is 16%.
Probability of 5 town roles is 57%.
Probability of 6 town roles is 27%.

These numbers don't include our named tracker, which means we have an 84% chance of at least two PRs.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: Cuzz on April 18, 2018, 06:09:29 pm
From the non-Galz perspective scum would bus you anyways.

I agree.

I'm perfect lynch-bait because yes, if I were scum, you're right that they would.


I'm mean galzria you opened the day saying I am too scummy to be scum.  What would you expect?  You also kind of quickhammered Robz with not great reasoning at a time when not a lot of people were around (weekends aren't the best for anyone).

Yeah this is basically my thought. Sometimes being super scummy and anti-town should get you lynched.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: O on April 18, 2018, 06:15:27 pm
From the non-Galz perspective scum would bus you anyways.

I agree.

I'm perfect lynch-bait because yes, if I were scum, you're right that they would.


I'm mean galzria you opened the day saying I am too scummy to be scum.  What would you expect?  You also kind of quickhammered Robz with not great reasoning at a time when not a lot of people were around (weekends aren't the best for anyone).

Yeah this is basically my thought. Sometimes being super scummy and anti-town should get you lynched.

wait we just tried this tho
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: Cuzz on April 18, 2018, 06:22:46 pm
From the non-Galz perspective scum would bus you anyways.

I agree.

I'm perfect lynch-bait because yes, if I were scum, you're right that they would.


I'm mean galzria you opened the day saying I am too scummy to be scum.  What would you expect?  You also kind of quickhammered Robz with not great reasoning at a time when not a lot of people were around (weekends aren't the best for anyone).

Yeah this is basically my thought. Sometimes being super scummy and anti-town should get you lynched.

wait we just tried this tho

eh
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: Swowl on April 18, 2018, 06:29:11 pm
said it day 1. said it day 2. saying it now.

Vote:Galz
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: Swowl on April 18, 2018, 06:38:44 pm
From the non-Galz perspective scum would bus you anyways.

I agree.

I'm perfect lynch-bait because yes, if I were scum, you're right that they would.


I'm mean galzria you opened the day saying I am too scummy to be scum.  What would you expect?  You also kind of quickhammered Robz with not great reasoning at a time when not a lot of people were around (weekends aren't the best for anyone).


Also completely outside of Galz Town MO.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: O on April 18, 2018, 06:47:02 pm
I intend to vote Galz. Not doing so right now because 2 votes is technically kinda sorta quickhammer range.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: Galzria on April 18, 2018, 07:08:24 pm
said it day 1. said it day 2. saying it now.

Vote:Galz

Surprise!

(Serious note: I need to look more into this - Swan is right. He came out D1 gunning for me and for Faust, two of the stronger town players. He's made multiple verifiably false statements and cases against me, and has pushed relentlessly in a way that really, just doesn't feel natural)
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: Galzria on April 18, 2018, 07:09:22 pm
From the non-Galz perspective scum would bus you anyways.

I agree.

I'm perfect lynch-bait because yes, if I were scum, you're right that they would.


I'm mean galzria you opened the day saying I am too scummy to be scum.  What would you expect?  You also kind of quickhammered Robz with not great reasoning at a time when not a lot of people were around (weekends aren't the best for anyone).


Also completely outside of Galz Town MO.

Such as this. This is exactly my Town MO as can been seen in literally my last two town games. Now, he could argue that I'm scum attempting to mimic my town MO - but that isn't the case he's made. He's said it ISN'T my town MO. False.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: Galzria on April 18, 2018, 07:11:10 pm
I intend to vote Galz. Not doing so right now because 2 votes is technically kinda sorta quickhammer range.

The sad thing is, in M100, you were certain I was town - and that read lead to a town loss. Here, you're certain that I'm scum... which will (likely) lead to a town loss... which I guess if you're scum isn't all that bad for you haha.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: O on April 18, 2018, 07:11:37 pm
said it day 1. said it day 2. saying it now.

Vote:Galz

Surprise!

(Serious note: I need to look more into this - Swan is right. He came out D1 gunning for me and for Faust, two of the stronger town players. He's made multiple verifiably false statements and cases against me, and has pushed relentlessly in a way that really, just doesn't feel natural)

You two aren't really two of the stronger town players tho.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: Galzria on April 18, 2018, 07:13:00 pm
From the non-Galz perspective scum would bus you anyways.

I agree.

I'm perfect lynch-bait because yes, if I were scum, you're right that they would.


I'm mean galzria you opened the day saying I am too scummy to be scum.  What would you expect?  You also kind of quickhammered Robz with not great reasoning at a time when not a lot of people were around (weekends aren't the best for anyone).

Yeah this is basically my thought. Sometimes being super scummy and anti-town should get you lynched.

I actually don't disagree. Just like I don't disagree with, you know, sometimes being a serial-lurker with no posts and content should get you lynched... But I would argue such things take a little more thought and consideration in a potential MyLo.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: Galzria on April 18, 2018, 07:13:44 pm
Bleh.

I'm going to start looking at vote analysis in the hopes of actually finding Mafia here. I stand by my hammer of Robz yesterday. Yes, maybe it was "early in the day" still - but I thought that he would flip scum and also thought that NOT hammering him would lead to him getting off the hook. I ask anybody (well, everybody) that wants to vote me over that to really think about it and think of a GOOD narrative for scum!Galz to do that. Really really though. It's essentially putting me in a 1v1 trade with someone that scum!Galz would've known to most likely be town. It's just an awful play. If I end up being the lynch here.... well, I can't exactly blame anyone. I'll fight it, sure because if we're in a 0T or 1T setup my lynch means we lose - but really, a Vig (if they exist) should shoot me well before a lynch actually happens on me.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: O on April 18, 2018, 07:21:18 pm
Who do you think the SK shot, Galzria?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: O on April 18, 2018, 07:25:11 pm
I'm personally finding it less likely that e was the SK kill than the mafia kill.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on April 18, 2018, 07:42:01 pm
Comments on setup discussion from other people, and a couple of notes.

I like that O remembered about the 1-shot BP. There is a pretty good chance we have one. How likely they are to have used their shot last night and prevented a kill with it I'm not sure.

I think Galz's comments about dayvig have some merit. If enough people post an intent to vote for someone, and we have a dayvig, I think they should strongly consider using their power at that point.

EFHW's posts make me wonder if she's really as confused about the game setup as she's presenting herself to be.

Why is gkrieg pointing out at \715 that there's a chance of the named tracker being a JK, and not factoring JKing into the possibilities for where the missing NK went? Interesting fact: there is no possibility of having a JK given the flips, but I'm pretty sure gkrieg's presented analysis doesn't go far enough to conclude that this is the case.

Why doesn't Galz's challenge to explain how scum!him thinks acknowledge with certainty that Robz could have been the SK? It's especially relevant given that Robz was acting so similarly this game to how he was last time, when he was the SK.

There is a 31% chance that scum has daytalk active right now.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: O on April 18, 2018, 07:46:37 pm
I like that O remembered about the 1-shot BP. There is a pretty good chance we have one. How likely they are to have used their shot last night and prevented a kill with it I'm not sure.

Not sure if this is poorly worded or you're misreading the setup but 1-shot BP could have just as easily been used day 1.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on April 18, 2018, 07:53:37 pm
I like that O remembered about the 1-shot BP. There is a pretty good chance we have one. How likely they are to have used their shot last night and prevented a kill with it I'm not sure.

Not sure if this is poorly worded or you're misreading the setup but 1-shot BP could have just as easily been used day 1.

Fair, but if you're a 1-shot bulletproofer, do you shoot N1 when we don't even know what the distribution of scum roles is and don't have a good read on everyone yet?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: Galzria on April 18, 2018, 07:58:47 pm
Who do you think the SK shot, Galzria?

Pfft - Heck if I know. - but I'll dig my hole even deeper for you:

D1 Faust bread crumbed that he was going to track me. Every time my lynch was brought up Faust talked about "Galz can be put off until a future day". I didn't piece it together until after he flipped Tracker D2, but if scum (Mafia or SK) were looking for PR tells that likely led them to Faust. I'm not sure what led to the other scum to choosing Mcmc though, unless they were simply afraid of his reads.

On N2, there are a number of ways that a kill could be prevented:

Mafia shoots SK: This would mean the SK shot 2.718
Mafia Roleblocks SK: This would mean Mafia shot 2.718
Mafia Rolestopper protects a player: This would mean Mafia shot 2.718
Mafia or SK shoot a protected player: We have a 1-shot BulletProofer who targeted N1
Mafia and SK both target 2.718
SK shoots Hidden Commuter: This would mean Mafia shot 2.718.

Most of these point towards 2.718 being the Mafia kill, and actually, only two point towards Mafia knowing the identity of the SK (Mafia shoots SK last night, SK shoots 2.718 /// Mafia Roleblock SK last night and shoot 2.718). So there's a chance that Mafia do not. in fact, know the SK's identity.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: EFHW on April 18, 2018, 08:19:19 pm
EFHW's posts make me wonder if she's really as confused about the game setup as she's presenting herself to be.
Ha ha. I did forget about the SK letter, but the T thing was a misunderstanding. I had mentally added T's for the VT's that made up the rest of town, as is sometimes done in these setups. The others were only thinking about the 6 rolls.

I don't want to lynch Galzria today. He's made some good suggestions that he could easily have avoided.  Robz was scummy.  I had the same worry about him getting away Day 1 when he wasn't lynched.

I'm currently thinking TWM or Cuzz. gkrieg seems like his town self right now.



Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: O on April 18, 2018, 08:22:10 pm
I like that O remembered about the 1-shot BP. There is a pretty good chance we have one. How likely they are to have used their shot last night and prevented a kill with it I'm not sure.

Not sure if this is poorly worded or you're misreading the setup but 1-shot BP could have just as easily been used day 1.

Fair, but if you're a 1-shot bulletproofer, do you shoot N1 when we don't even know what the distribution of scum roles is and don't have a good read on everyone yet?

Canít you Bp yourself? And dead townies donít make the odds of you successfully blocking a shot any better, so the only reasons to wait would be dead scum and scumreads / PR reads
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: iguanaiguana on April 18, 2018, 09:16:48 pm

It's pretty clear, though you could hear, you truly finally knew
in time, he'd tell his tale the way he'd like it told.
Now he isn't on the phone, and his story might as well be so.
(https://youtu.be/OphOQn1RvcU?t=8)
Vote count 3.1

not voting (8): The_Wine_Merchant, DatSwan, SpaceAnemone, Galzria, Cuzz, EFHW, O, Gkrieg13

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 2 ends Wednesday, April 25 at 8:30am forum time.

Mod Note:

Vote:Galz

The above vote is not correct syntax, so it does not count.


Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: Cuzz on April 18, 2018, 10:14:57 pm
EFHW's posts make me wonder if she's really as confused about the game setup as she's presenting herself to be.
Ha ha. I did forget about the SK letter, but the T thing was a misunderstanding. I had mentally added T's for the VT's that made up the rest of town, as is sometimes done in these setups. The others were only thinking about the 6 rolls.

I don't want to lynch Galzria today. He's made some good suggestions that he could easily have avoided.  Robz was scummy.  I had the same worry about him getting away Day 1 when he wasn't lynched.

I'm currently thinking TWM or Cuzz. gkrieg seems like his town self right now.

Oh huh TWM is still in this game.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: Galzria on April 19, 2018, 12:51:51 am
DAMA and around(ish) for awhile tonight. XxRaptorxX's birthday. Thought ya'll should know.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 19, 2018, 01:32:07 am
I like that O remembered about the 1-shot BP. There is a pretty good chance we have one. How likely they are to have used their shot last night and prevented a kill with it I'm not sure.

Not sure if this is poorly worded or you're misreading the setup but 1-shot BP could have just as easily been used day 1.

Fair, but if you're a 1-shot bulletproofer, do you shoot N1 when we don't even know what the distribution of scum roles is and don't have a good read on everyone yet?

Canít you Bp yourself? And dead townies donít make the odds of you successfully blocking a shot any better, so the only reasons to wait would be dead scum and scumreads / PR reads

If you could bp yourself it would just be 1-short bulletproof. Everyone would just use it on themselves.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: Galzria on April 19, 2018, 05:03:49 am
DAMA and around(ish) for awhile tonight. XxRaptorxX's birthday. Thought ya'll should know.

Sad. DAMA over. I'm going to bed. Zzzz
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: iguanaiguana on April 19, 2018, 11:09:12 am

Well, loving is as loving does
and I'd say we should know because
we both have loved, have lost, and are alone.
(https://youtu.be/OphOQn1RvcU?t=30)
Vote count 3.2

not voting (8): The_Wine_Merchant, DatSwan, SpaceAnemone, Galzria, Cuzz, EFHW, O, Gkrieg13

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 2 ends Wednesday, April 25 at 8:30am forum time.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on April 19, 2018, 03:02:43 pm
When I read the thread first thing this morning, someone posted that TWM is still in the game, and then someone posted a DAMA, so read that as being TWM back.

The only posts that have appeared in 10 hours that I've been at work are a vote count, and Galz posting the end of a DAMA. Normally I assume that you USian people go to bed at least a few hours before I wake up!

New theory: TWM was scum or SK, and Galz is a super-scum/super-SK who absorbed him in the night, becoming a Galz-lookalike hydra of scumness but negating an NK from TWM in the process. This is a schadd setup, after all...

Request prod on TWM/rescue mission
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: Galzria on April 19, 2018, 03:43:06 pm
Gonna need a day tu recover after last night.

New theory: TWM was scum or SK, and Galz is a super-scum/super-SK who absorbed him in the night, becoming a Galz-lookalike hydra of scumness but negating an NK from TWM in the process. This is a schadd setup, after all...

This is just fantastic.

----------

On a more serious note:

The lack of action is because scum is content with the current game state - they very much don't want to draw attention away from me, and thus have no real reason to pretend to find scum elsewhere.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: Galzria on April 19, 2018, 03:44:34 pm
I'm going to start looking at vote analysis in the hopes of actually finding Mafia here.

This will happen tomorrow, not today.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: Cuzz on April 19, 2018, 04:07:12 pm
I worry that I have more townreads than the number of town remaining. This might mean TWM has to be scum.

EFHW: being mostly helpful and seemingly pro-town, but mostly with setup talk that is just as easy to do as scum as town
Galz: reaction to scrutiny could be genuine town reaction or could be literally exactly what scum Galz was planning all along when he hammered Robz
O: mostly being normal O, but kind of a less helpful version of it so, maybe scummy
Space: always seems town so meh
gkrieg: ?
Datswan: ?
TWM: ???
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: Cuzz on April 19, 2018, 04:08:11 pm
TIL this forum auto-translates a triple-? to a puzzled emoji
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: Galzria on April 19, 2018, 04:12:17 pm
@Gkrieg

Why did you think proposing a massclaim was remotely a reasonable option, and why do you think I should not just try to lynch you for SK + potential Dayvig hunting as scum?

How is proposing a massclaim SK or dayvig hunting? 

We are at MYLO.  The only PR that we are sure we have is a named tracker (slight chance that they are a JK instead).  It is generally within town's interest to do a massclaim at MYLO, seeing as we need to lynch correctly to win.  Unfortunately SK really makes things more difficult.  Even if we lynch scum today, we aren't assured to not lose tomorrow.  At this point we need to lynch mafia and also give the SK enough information to kill mafia as well.

It is definitely a reasonable option, you can't say stuff like "remotely a reasonable option" without saying why it is so outlandish.

Can you even explain the potential benefits of a massclaim?

The potential harms:

1) Reveal our tracker
2) Depending on claiming order, take a pretty bad 50-50 if scum get a convincing first claim of tracker.
3) Reveal any potential remaining relevant PRs
4) Narrow down who the SK potentially is, who is probably a pseudo-Vig for us right now.

The potential benefits:

1) We get one named tracker as a pseudo-IC... if scum don't counterclaim or claim first
2) Scum probably hide as VT claims for the rest of them, which might narrow the pool, except most town and SK will probably also be claiming VT

I'm not crazy in support of Gkrieg here - but not mentioned in the benefits column is that we would know if we are in a 0T/1T or a 2T setup - which is valuable in that we would know if we're in MyLo or not. I don't think the value of knowing is worth the downside of claiming though - either we are or we aren't, that isn't going to change by claiming - and further, the people left that may/may not be PR's and hold the key to that information likely already know if this is MyLo.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: Galzria on April 19, 2018, 04:13:47 pm
TIL this forum auto-translates a triple-? to a puzzled emoji

Yeah. Gotta ninja bold. ???
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: O on April 19, 2018, 04:14:44 pm
Not really relevant, but can't we always back into a win due to SK?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: O on April 19, 2018, 04:18:22 pm
Anyways I'm going to the rash, foolhardy, insanely stupid thing and Vote: TWM

Calling it now, it's tactical lurking. TWM existed in this game day 1 and day 2. Day 3 we're in MYLO and he drops off the face of the planet?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: O on April 19, 2018, 04:19:49 pm
"Aren't we not really in MYLO in any circumstance" -- O
"We're in MYLO and he's lurking" -- O, literally one post later.

Meh.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: Galzria on April 19, 2018, 04:24:43 pm
Not really relevant, but can't we always back into a win due to SK?

If we're in a 0T or 1T setup and Mafia know who the SK is they can Roleblock him every night.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: O on April 19, 2018, 04:27:31 pm
Not really relevant, but can't we always back into a win due to SK?

If we're in a 0T or 1T setup and Mafia know who the SK is they can Roleblock him every night.

Right.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: Cuzz on April 19, 2018, 04:31:54 pm
Anyways I'm going to the rash, foolhardy, insanely stupid thing and Vote: TWM

Calling it now, it's tactical lurking. TWM existed in this game day 1 and day 2. Day 3 we're in MYLO and he drops off the face of the planet?

Right like I've been lurking all game because I have had no clue what's been going on but even I am trying to get more involved here. I really don't see town disappearing like this in this situation.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: O on April 19, 2018, 04:41:23 pm
I'm conflicted because Galz really deserves to be lynched. But in that game when I was mason with Teproc I randomly pushed the Space lynch because she was flying under the radar heavily and it worked out.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: iguanaiguana on April 19, 2018, 04:51:11 pm
Your face's falling tears, to me they're lovely and they're dear,
though you don't love me and it's clear that I will never see you in my arms.
(https://youtu.be/OphOQn1RvcU?t=39)
Vote count 3.3

The_Wine_Merchant (1): O

not voting (7): The_Wine_Merchant, DatSwan, SpaceAnemone, Galzria, Cuzz, EFHW, Gkrieg13

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 2 ends Wednesday, April 25 at 8:30am forum time.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: Swowl on April 19, 2018, 06:03:12 pm
From the non-Galz perspective scum would bus you anyways.

I agree.

I'm perfect lynch-bait because yes, if I were scum, you're right that they would.


I'm mean galzria you opened the day saying I am too scummy to be scum.  What would you expect?  You also kind of quickhammered Robz with not great reasoning at a time when not a lot of people were around (weekends aren't the best for anyone).


Also completely outside of Galz Town MO.

Such as this. This is exactly my Town MO as can been seen in literally my last two town games. Now, he could argue that I'm scum attempting to mimic my town MO - but that isn't the case he's made. He's said it ISN'T my town MO. False.

I can argue your last two town games are outside of your Town MO. Furthermore backing it up by the fact you are bringing it up.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: The_Wine_Merchant on April 19, 2018, 06:56:51 pm
Sorry friends. Mini-family crisis. I am in communication with iguana about whether or not I should opt out or not. I am not sure what the process is for this, but I am extremely limited communication for at least the next week.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 19, 2018, 07:03:56 pm
vote: galzria
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on April 19, 2018, 07:15:06 pm
I'm conflicted because Galz really deserves to be lynched. But in that game when I was mason with Teproc I randomly pushed the Space lynch because she was flying under the radar heavily and it worked out.

So you're suggesting pushing a lynch on an under-contributing player? The post right before yours is where Cuzz just admitted to having been a lurker all through the game...
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 19, 2018, 07:17:48 pm
I'm surprised Space isn't doing any rereads.  That is the main reason I don't have a strong townread on them.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: O on April 19, 2018, 07:18:20 pm
I'm conflicted because Galz really deserves to be lynched. But in that game when I was mason with Teproc I randomly pushed the Space lynch because she was flying under the radar heavily and it worked out.

So you're suggesting pushing a lynch on an under-contributing player? The post right before yours is where Cuzz just admitted to having been a lurker all through the game...

How is this at all relevant when my claim was that TWM is opportunistically lurking today, not the whole game? Cuzz hasn't lurked today.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: Swowl on April 19, 2018, 07:23:48 pm
i am like 99.99% sure I was already doing this, but
Vote: Galz
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: Swowl on April 19, 2018, 07:24:25 pm
yeah, it just wasn't counted:

said it day 1. said it day 2. saying it now.

Vote:Galz
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on April 19, 2018, 07:43:44 pm
Gkrieg -- Early on I thought he was townie mostly for the fact he's called me town. I think as scum he'd be much more likely to revert to his meta of spearheading my mislynches. Says mcmc always thinks he's scum, in response to Robz's comment about mcmc reading gkrieg. Says O and Robz were the most likely to be scum of people pushing e.. now we know Robz was town after all. Townreads mcmc and IDP. Calls Galz, TWM and Swan scummy. Votes faust, but says he'd rather lynch a lurker. Votes Swan, then IDP after a reads change. Says he hasn't had scum vibes on EFHW and reads her well. Wishes me happy birthday twice! :-) Wow, that feels like ages ago already. Gkrieg highlights that he shines more in later days than in early days. #404 is "I feel like you are trying to pre-frame me for when mcmc dies tonight", and mcmc did die! (Though it was Robz he was talking to there, and Robz has now flipped town). Has quite a long argument back and forht with faust, but then I was feeling quite wary of faust too I think.

Comes into D2 directly with comments on the NK and a vote on O for being under the radar. Also being eerie/weary of EFHW :-P He's got 71 game posts to date, but these start-of-day ones are only a few words long each. Was sick. Hope you're feeling better now, gkrieg! :-) Votes for Robz, but says he still thinks O is scum. Doesn't reappear till after the hammer. Given that I know e and I are town, in 2nd and 3rd places on that wagon respectively, gkreig in 4th place looks like the vote could be a little opportunistic in retrospect.

Opens D3 much the same as D2, with comments on what the flip means for the game setup. I think I already posted my thought about how for someone who was earlier posting about how he's higher-value as a player later in the game, he seems to have come into the day all prepared with thoughts about mylo etc. Moves on to suggest a massclaim, which is quickly scumread. Makes the suggestion that we might have a JK as part of a response to O, which is all wrong. We actually don't even need my full game distribution to prove it, just look at the S roll list in the setup. Has a bit of an ongoing tangle with Galz, and has voted him just now. So where did the earlier O scumread go in D3? Gkrieg has been arguing with O, but hasn't said anything more about his scumread on him in D3. Overall he was a strongish townread of mine earlier in the game, but that's really slipping now.

PPE 4: including gkrieg complaining about me not doing reads while I was actually in the middle of re-reading him!
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: iguanaiguana on April 19, 2018, 09:21:24 pm
There's no room in your heart
for even this finely-sharpened dart.
Although I had started to think
there might be hope, it isn't so.
(https://youtu.be/OphOQn1RvcU?t=48)
Vote count 3.4

The_Wine_Merchant (1): O
Galzria (2): gkrieg13, DatSwan

not voting (5): The_Wine_Merchant, SpaceAnemone, Galzria, Cuzz, EFHW

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 2 ends Wednesday, April 25 at 8:30am forum time.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: Swowl on April 19, 2018, 11:41:03 pm
Here is where I am at from Vote Count Re Read. Strike Through Players = Confirmed Town.


D1 Final Vote Count

Robz888 (1): IDontPlayThisGame
EFHW (2): mcmcsalot, Galzria
Galzria (1): O
SpaceAnemone (1): faust
IDontPlayThisGame (7): gkrieg13, SpaceAnemone, Robz888, 2.71828, The_Wine_Merchant, EFHW, DatSwan

not voting (1): Cuzz


Okie Dokie - So the way my brain works here is deal with likelihood. It takes 7 to lynch, there were 3 Town players on a Town player, so that is 4 remaining unknowns. For me this creates a lynch pool of at "at least 1, but not more than 2 skum exist within [GK, Space, TWM, EFHW]".



Day 2 Final Vote Count
O (1): Robz888
DatSwan (1): The_Wine_Merchant
Galzria (1): DatSwan
Robz888 (6): O, 2.71828..., SpaceAnemone, gkrieg13, EFHW, Galzria

not voting (1): Cuzz

Okie Dokie - Same concept first. With 10 alive it took 6 to lynch. Of those 6 on Town!Robz, we have 1 Town player and 5 Unknowns. From the Wagon, I am going to assume there is at least one Skum within [O, Space, GK, EFHW, Galz].
 Off the wagon we have Cuzz, TWM, Robz, Swan. Because I know I am town and we have had the Robz flip, that means that EITHER all the skum was on the wagon, or one of Cuzz/TWM (or both I suppose) are likely skum.


So far the Summary:
Day 1 Wagon Pool = [GK, Space, EFHW, TWM]
Day 1 No Wagon Pool = [Cuzz, O, Galz]
Day 2 Wagon Pool = [GK, Space, O, EFHW, Galz]
Day 2 No Wagon Pool = [Cuzz, TWM]

Just whatever, these are assumptions keep in mind, but what I draw from this is:
1) There is at least one mafia in     [Cuzz, TWM]
2) There is at least one mafia in     [GK, Space, EFHW]
3) There is at least one mafia in     [Galz, TWM]
Note - read through it and you will see why O is not included. I am not saying he is for sure not skum, just this is the most reduced possible pool I can come to.

The bummer here is that when you run through it the pools pretty much become [Cuzz, TWM] or [GK, Space, EFHW], and regardless of the choice (even assuming we guess right and find skum), the overall information revealed is about the same. This leads to to my initial point, which is... I just want to lynch Galz because he is going to flip skum.
However, if we absolutely must lynch outside of it, we should lynch within [GK, Space, EFHW].

My order of preference would be Space, EFHW, GK at this point. So, realistically my lynch pool is [Galz/Space].
My overall pool would be [Galz, Space/GK/EFHW, TWM/Cuzz]
My reduced pool would be [Galz, TWM, Space/GK/EFHW]
My "super-whammy-want it to be written down somewhere" pool would be [Galz, TWM, Space].

We should lynch Galz.
If we are not going to lynch Galz, we should lynch Space.
If we are not going to lynch Galz or Space, we should lynch TWM. 
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 20, 2018, 01:07:01 am
I still heavily scumread O.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: Swowl on April 20, 2018, 03:37:16 am
I still heavily scumread O.

Yeah that's cool and all - like I said def not off the radar - but outside O who do you like?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: Swowl on April 20, 2018, 03:38:35 am
More fun:

Galz - who do you like for lynch?

Space - who do you like?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: Swowl on April 20, 2018, 03:39:50 am
I still heavily scumread O.

Yeah that's cool and all - like I said def not off the radar - but outside O who do you like?
Nvm, just remembered you are on Galz with me.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: Swowl on April 20, 2018, 03:53:58 am
I like that O remembered about the 1-shot BP. There is a pretty good chance we have one. How likely they are to have used their shot last night and prevented a kill with it I'm not sure.

Not sure if this is poorly worded or you're misreading the setup but 1-shot BP could have just as easily been used day 1.

Fair, but if you're a 1-shot bulletproofer, do you shoot N1 when we don't even know what the distribution of scum roles is and don't have a good read on everyone yet?

Canít you Bp yourself? And dead townies donít make the odds of you successfully blocking a shot any better, so the only reasons to wait would be dead scum and scumreads / PR reads
?
Of course they do... limits the maximum potential to a lower quantity, thus raising the odds of success....
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: Swowl on April 20, 2018, 04:00:12 am
Gonna need a day tu recover after last night.

New theory: TWM was scum or SK, and Galz is a super-scum/super-SK who absorbed him in the night, becoming a Galz-lookalike hydra of scumness but negating an NK from TWM in the process. This is a schadd setup, after all...

This is just fantastic.

----------

On a more serious note:

The lack of action is because scum is content with the current game state - they very much don't want to draw attention away from me, and thus have no real reason to pretend to find scum elsewhere.

Is this to say you are skum reading the players that have been active thus far in the game?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: Swowl on April 20, 2018, 04:04:22 am
O - Lynch TWM tomorrow - Get on the Galz train today!
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: iguanaiguana on April 20, 2018, 07:14:45 am
Lalight replaces The_Wine_Merchant, effective immediately.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: iguanaiguana on April 20, 2018, 07:17:05 am
So wake up, make up some new song again around the same tune.
The water cools, the leaves they fall, the sun it bends, the summer ends.
Our so-called friend doesn't need you.
(https://youtu.be/OphOQn1RvcU?t=84)

Vote count 3.5

Lalight (1): O
Galzria (2): gkrieg13, DatSwan

not voting (5): Lalight, SpaceAnemone, Galzria, Cuzz, EFHW

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 2 ends Wednesday, April 25 at 8:30am forum time.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: LaLight on April 20, 2018, 07:32:11 am
hi guys, was watching the game and was not impressed by Robz' lynch. Will reread today and post my thoughts, but while reading I thought O/gkrieg are the most suspicious
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: LaLight on April 20, 2018, 08:08:20 am
Swan is very active and I think is town after all. Hard to read Cuzz, I constantly am forgetting he's in a game, maybe because of non substance posts. O/gkrieg telling everyone how scummy the second is but never voting each other is the scummiest thing ever. By the way, looking at the game without participating really makes my reads better fwiw

Not sure about all the fuzz about Galz, what happened? Is it that hammer? I am not sure, forgot all the metas in a long while, but wouldn't it be really stupid thing to do as scum? Or was he sacrificing himself for... Robz' lynch? I don't think so.

Why were some of you scumreading TWM? As I understood that's because he became inactive, well, there's a reason and here's me now. I'd really like to put things into perspective so we will actually win this game. I'd like this achievement :)

Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 20, 2018, 10:33:26 am
I still heavily scumread O.

Yeah that's cool and all - like I said def not off the radar - but outside O who do you like?

Galz O Space in that order. Iíll reread all of them.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: Cuzz on April 20, 2018, 11:05:01 am
Thing that should be obvious:

If Galz avoids being lynched because his hammer of Robz would have been so incredibly stupid to do as scum, then it retroactively becomes not a stupid thing to have done as scum.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: LaLight on April 20, 2018, 11:08:50 am
Thing that should be obvious:

If Galz avoids being lynched because his hammer of Robz would have been so incredibly stupid to do as scum, then it retroactively becomes not a stupid thing to have done as scum.

levels and levels. Because if it retroactively becomes not a stupid thing to have done as scum, scum wouldn't do this because it's scummy again
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: O on April 20, 2018, 11:10:34 am
Thing that should be obvious:

If Galz avoids being lynched because his hammer of Robz would have been so incredibly stupid to do as scum, then it retroactively becomes not a stupid thing to have done as scum.

Very true. But if I lynch TWMLalight because I found the lurking even scummier, it means not that galz was smart but rather less scum than twm.

Nonetheless Vote: Galzria and hope for the best since it appears twm has no traction
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: Cuzz on April 20, 2018, 11:14:02 am
Thing that should be obvious:

If Galz avoids being lynched because his hammer of Robz would have been so incredibly stupid to do as scum, then it retroactively becomes not a stupid thing to have done as scum.

Very true. But if I lynch TWMLalight because I found the lurking even scummier, it means not that galz was smart but rather less scum than twm.

Nonetheless Vote: Galzria and hope for the best since it appears twm has no traction

Well the primary reason for voting TWM seems to have a legitimate external explanation, so at this point we should make LL keep saying stuff and just independently decide if he seems scummy or not.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: EFHW on April 20, 2018, 11:20:09 am
I remember having other reasons for scumreading TWM. I'll read back to see if I can find what they were.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: O on April 20, 2018, 11:23:10 am
Unvote For some reason I forgot Datswan remade his vote count. Probably OK anyways but don't want to leave Galz L-2. Still my intent is on Galz atm
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 20, 2018, 01:32:00 pm
If galz is town, Cuzz/EFHW arenít the scum team.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: Cuzz on April 20, 2018, 04:17:32 pm
If galz is town, Cuzz/EFHW arenít the scum team.

This is true in the sense that Cuzz/X is not the scumteam regardless of whether Galz is town.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on April 20, 2018, 07:55:24 pm
Only a short time for this tonight, but weekend tomorrow means mote time then.

First, LaLight!!! Good to see you in here :-) You're much easier for me to read than TWM, so this game just got more hopeful.. Please give comments on things!

Second, someone asked who I'd support lynching. Current thinking is gkrieg for the top pick, but I think Galz, O or EFHW could knock him out of that spot when i have time to read in more detail.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: O on April 20, 2018, 08:38:24 pm
I like that O remembered about the 1-shot BP. There is a pretty good chance we have one. How likely they are to have used their shot last night and prevented a kill with it I'm not sure.

Not sure if this is poorly worded or you're misreading the setup but 1-shot BP could have just as easily been used day 1.

Fair, but if you're a 1-shot bulletproofer, do you shoot N1 when we don't even know what the distribution of scum roles is and don't have a good read on everyone yet?

Canít you Bp yourself? And dead townies donít make the odds of you successfully blocking a shot any better, so the only reasons to wait would be dead scum and scumreads / PR reads
?
Of course they do... limits the maximum potential to a lower quantity, thus raising the odds of success....


If you were to have BP'd a town player who was now dead, it would have been a successful shot to begin with.  ;)
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 21, 2018, 01:24:18 am
Only a short time for this tonight, but weekend tomorrow means mote time then.

First, LaLight!!! Good to see you in here :-) You're much easier for me to read than TWM, so this game just got more hopeful.. Please give comments on things!

Second, someone asked who I'd support lynching. Current thinking is gkrieg for the top pick, but I think Galz, O or EFHW could knock him out of that spot when i have time to read in more detail.

I like how much of this read on me is because Iím scum reading them
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 21, 2018, 01:25:00 am
If galz is town, Cuzz/EFHW arenít the scum team.

This is true in the sense that Cuzz/X is not the scumteam regardless of whether Galz is town.

Just that you two had the chance to hammer
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: LaLight on April 21, 2018, 08:17:33 am
If galz is town, Cuzz/EFHW arenít the scum team.

I like how irrelevant this statement is. I think i am ready to vote: gkrieg13
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on April 21, 2018, 10:04:17 am
EFHW: Early posts are jokey, then votes Galz in agreement with e over thinking the rules clarification thing was odd. Makes a bunch of rather short observational posts (saying faust is cheery, e is meta-aware etc). Unvotes after claiming to have confused e (who said he'd ingnored the setup) and Galz (who asked questions in-thread and was scumread for it). Makes a weird suggestion about TWM and RR (Cuzz) both being scum from the fact that TWM (who's now LL) knew RR hadn't been online. Agrees that my explanation (using the site to notice that RR had literally not logged into f.ds since the game started) is better, but still desides to vote TWM over his obeservation. Votes Robz for calling her post about having confused e and Galz "very townie". Seems frustrated at TWM for not giving her a reason he'd voted for her.. wants opportunities to defend herself even though he'd already moved his vote by the point she did so. Maybe a guilty conscience? Also a bit defensive when Swan points out a language point about "you'll lynch" vs "we'll lynch". Defends IDP. Is confused by Robz making a point about faust distracting from IDP, because faust had pushed IDP. Scumreads Robz, e, gkrieg and mcmc. Three had flipped town now! Makes a couple of posts about incorrect vote counts, which someone I think suggested was scummy for worrying about the voting state. Later says she'd be "reluctantly" on board for an e lynch, when Galz is canvassing. Eventually L-1s IDP even though she says she disagrees with the lynch.

In early D2, EFHW seems surprised that e townreads her for sounding sure that the IDP wagon was on town. I'm somewhat suspicious of EFHW over that because of course scum are going to have more of an idea of who's town. She comments on other wagons that didn't stick as alternatives to IDP: one on Robz, and one on herself. We know now that Robz was town, so the remaining non-stick wagon was on EFHW.. and we know that wagons that refuse to go anywhere are sometimes like that because scum don't all want to bus. I don't quite get her post at #587. She notes that I'd voted IDP because I thought he was scummy, but the "how scummy was it to choose IDP over other possibilities" seems like a weird question, especially when she followed it up by pointing out that "To some of us he seemed obv!town" -- that implies knowing whose reads could and couldn't be trusted in the early game, which is a scum trait. Picks some more at Robz for his earlier characterization of her, and failure to respond to questions, and then L-1s him too.

Opens D3 with the weird counting of "T" for VTs, which is not how that works. She'd made some earlier comment about how people just don't tend to ask questions about a setup, which is even weirded if she had doubts about how it worked herself. Actually, quite a few of her pots at the start of D3 are weird little tabulations of letters. Agrees about not having a massclaim. Doesn't seem to go as far as agreeing with his scumread on gkrieg in the same post, though. Responds to me to my point about her broken assumptions by saying that sometimes games do add Ts for towns. Also states outright that she doesn't want to lynch Galz today, and that gkrieg seems like town, which is a contrast to her earlier read on him, and is suspicious because her reads on gkrieg have gone in a different direction to how I think his play has panned out. Most recent post is from ~20 hours ago vaguely hinting at having reasons for scumreading TWM, but hasn't provided them.

I had a vague scumread on EFHW left over from about D1, and obviously it's still there. I think the most notable things are that the early wagon on her didn't move much (while the other ones on known town did), and that she seems really aware of how people are being read for setup and game understanding stuff (including reproaching Robz for townreading her for a "slip"), and yet still makes a big deal now we're in D3 of misundertanding the setup.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on April 21, 2018, 10:17:49 am
Only a short time for this tonight, but weekend tomorrow means mote time then.

First, LaLight!!! Good to see you in here :-) You're much easier for me to read than TWM, so this game just got more hopeful.. Please give comments on things!

Second, someone asked who I'd support lynching. Current thinking is gkrieg for the top pick, but I think Galz, O or EFHW could knock him out of that spot when i have time to read in more detail.

I like how much of this read on me is because Iím scum reading them

I'm aware that I might get a bias due to omgus, but you're misrepresenting it a bit! You're behaving in a scummier way now than previously, but I wasn't really re-weighing the evidence properly till I had time to make an actual re-read and look at your play as a whole... the fact that you broke my initial townread made it easier for me to re-evaluate!
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: iguanaiguana on April 21, 2018, 10:18:35 am
So proceed out the door and down the street.
December's lying near, but in the oven's heat this house is now a home
(https://youtu.be/OphOQn1RvcU?t=105)
Vote count 3.6

Galzria (2): gkrieg13, DatSwan
gkrieg13 (1): Lalight

not voting (5): SpaceAnemone, Galzria, Cuzz, EFHW, O

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 2 ends Wednesday, April 25 at 8:30am forum time.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 21, 2018, 10:39:26 am
If galz is town, Cuzz/EFHW arenít the scum team.

I like how irrelevant this statement is. I think i am ready to vote: gkrieg13

What do you mean irrelevant. We are at MYLO, two people had a chance to hammer galzria. Eliminating possible scum team pairings is important. How on earth does that possibly warrant a vote.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 21, 2018, 10:40:10 am
Only a short time for this tonight, but weekend tomorrow means mote time then.

First, LaLight!!! Good to see you in here :-) You're much easier for me to read than TWM, so this game just got more hopeful.. Please give comments on things!

Second, someone asked who I'd support lynching. Current thinking is gkrieg for the top pick, but I think Galz, O or EFHW could knock him out of that spot when i have time to read in more detail.

I like how much of this read on me is because Iím scum reading them

I'm aware that I might get a bias due to omgus, but you're misrepresenting it a bit! You're behaving in a scummier way now than previously, but I wasn't really re-weighing the evidence properly till I had time to make an actual re-read and look at your play as a whole... the fact that you broke my initial townread made it easier for me to re-evaluate!

You did one reread and decided that I was the scummiest person?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 21, 2018, 10:43:43 am
Gkrieg -- Early on I thought he was townie mostly for the fact he's called me town. I think as scum he'd be much more likely to revert to his meta of spearheading my mislynches. Says mcmc always thinks he's scum, in response to Robz's comment about mcmc reading gkrieg. Says O and Robz were the most likely to be scum of people pushing e.. now we know Robz was town after all. Townreads mcmc and IDP. Calls Galz, TWM and Swan scummy. Votes faust, but says he'd rather lynch a lurker. Votes Swan, then IDP after a reads change. Says he hasn't had scum vibes on EFHW and reads her well. Wishes me happy birthday twice! :-) Wow, that feels like ages ago already. Gkrieg highlights that he shines more in later days than in early days. #404 is "I feel like you are trying to pre-frame me for when mcmc dies tonight", and mcmc did die! (Though it was Robz he was talking to there, and Robz has now flipped town). Has quite a long argument back and forht with faust, but then I was feeling quite wary of faust too I think.

Comes into D2 directly with comments on the NK and a vote on O for being under the radar. Also being eerie/weary of EFHW :-P He's got 71 game posts to date, but these start-of-day ones are only a few words long each. Was sick. Hope you're feeling better now, gkrieg! :-) Votes for Robz, but says he still thinks O is scum. Doesn't reappear till after the hammer. Given that I know e and I are town, in 2nd and 3rd places on that wagon respectively, gkreig in 4th place looks like the vote could be a little opportunistic in retrospect.

Opens D3 much the same as D2, with comments on what the flip means for the game setup. I think I already posted my thought about how for someone who was earlier posting about how he's higher-value as a player later in the game, he seems to have come into the day all prepared with thoughts about mylo etc. Moves on to suggest a massclaim, which is quickly scumread. Makes the suggestion that we might have a JK as part of a response to O, which is all wrong. We actually don't even need my full game distribution to prove it, just look at the S roll list in the setup. Has a bit of an ongoing tangle with Galz, and has voted him just now. So where did the earlier O scumread go in D3? Gkrieg has been arguing with O, but hasn't said anything more about his scumread on him in D3. Overall he was a strongish townread of mine earlier in the game, but that's really slipping now.

PPE 4: including gkrieg complaining about me not doing reads while I was actually in the middle of re-reading him!

You also donít have anything in here that is scummy, then you state at the end that your townread is slipping but you give no reasoning. Then all of the sudden I am your strongest scum read?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on April 21, 2018, 03:39:00 pm
Just re-found this while doing my O re-read.

Canít you Bp yourself? And dead townies donít make the odds of you successfully blocking a shot any better, so the only reasons to wait would be dead scum and scumreads / PR reads

I assumed not for the self-BPing. As for the rest, the reason to wait is to form better reads because as well as knowing who seems vaguely "off", you get a better picture after N1 about what roles are out there, and an extra day to map those onto people you're reading over D2.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on April 21, 2018, 03:48:59 pm
I'm conflicted because Galz really deserves to be lynched. But in that game when I was mason with Teproc I randomly pushed the Space lynch because she was flying under the radar heavily and it worked out.

So you're suggesting pushing a lynch on an under-contributing player? The post right before yours is where Cuzz just admitted to having been a lurker all through the game...

How is this at all relevant when my claim was that TWM is opportunistically lurking today, not the whole game? Cuzz hasn't lurked today.

I took your post as an accusation that I was under-contributing... I'm aware my read-posts have been getting a bit behind! I think this response tells me that you didn't explicitly mean it that way. We now know that TWM was having external issues, though.. so I guess my point about Cuzz being lurky earlier is sort of relevant still, though he's the last person on my reread queue (other than needing a second re-read on Galz because the first was before he started being scummy), so hopefully I have a more informed opinion on him pretty soon.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on April 21, 2018, 04:11:48 pm
O: Jokes with Robz about playing for the next scum game, then self-votes, sheeping faust, when faust says his early posts were scummy. O was as an early townread for me because of #63, because scum!faust last game made a big deal about warning people in advance about his travel and possible lack of internet... I feel he wanted to be in more of a position to control the game, and I didn't get that vibe from O. Says gkrieg is acting like his scum self. Dislikes people posting similar reads on the same people in different games. Thinks mcmc's auto-scumread on Robz is scummy. References his own scumminess. Calls Swan scummy. At this point is still self-voting. Denies doing "jokes and self-votes" since the opening of the game, which I'd disagree with given his commend about "if I wasn't so scummy I'd vote" a few posts earlier (and the fact he's still self-voting at that point). Finally unvotes at #256, though also mentions he's exploring Tokyo, so I'm envious of that! He's the second person to take the Robz train up to three people, behind IDP and EFHW (e and mcmc were voting earlier, too). Has valid points against Robz. Moves to Galz when he pushes e, saying he's also not voting IDP or EFHW.

Votes gkreig at the start of D2 for coming into it sounding like he'd done "pre-flip planning", and also because gkrieg just voted him for being under the radar. Has a brief argument with TWM about whether scum!gkrieg would behave that way. Says Datswan is scummy. Helpfully lists a bunch of people who've been calling him scummy all game. Most are still alive. Gets accused by gkrieg of being focused on himself. Calls TWM not-necessarily-scummy. Answers my question about how he behaves as scum. "I wonder if the easy explanation for why MCMC got killed is the right one." -- still seems to be scumreading gkrieg. Votes Robz, agreeing that he's not acting like a VT. Pre-flip, speculates that Robz may be town and Galz scum, but then immediately reverses that and asks why scum!galz would hammer and draw the attention of the SK.

Comes into D3 displaying more understanding of the setup mechanics than he had demonstrated before, by asking why gkrieg and EFHW aren't considering someone being bulletproof in any of their scenarios. I had wondered the same thing, but then I've got the breakdown of all the roles and how likely they all are. Townreads Cuzz for his direct kill-Galz approach to D3. Proposes lynching gkrieg after his massclaim suggestion. Very definitely against gkrieg's massclaim suggestion. States intent to vote Galz, playing along with Galz's plan to let a dayvig take him out. Even calls me out on a point of setup understanding, so I get the impression he's really confident about how it all works. Jumps onto TWM for being absent for D3 before it comes out that he has external stuff going on. Votes Galz, briefly putting him to L-2, before retreating to claiming intent because he doesn't want a hammer yet.

Overall, I'm reading O as town. I think his questions make sense coming from a town mindset; maybe the scummy jokes do too, though I also see why people seem to scumread him. I just don't think he's the most likely person to flip scum here.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on April 21, 2018, 04:27:52 pm
Cuzz 2: Apparently I did Cuzz already, but he was so non-present that I'd forgotten. He's now up to 23 game posts, as opposed to the 12 he'd made last time. There's nothing useful in D1, so let's jsut re-start with D2. Scumreads Swan, though also asks if he's a native English speaker, because of the "prefer to" misunderstanding. Townreads O after a re-read (this is the first new post since last time I read him). The only other D2 post was non-useful. Comes into D3 pushing for a Galz lynch. Several other posts are things like "eh" or "Oh huh TWM is still in the game", rather than useful content/analysis. Reads at #750, but thet're super-non-committal, and three of them are made out of question marks, assuming the one on TWM got auto-converted.. which the very next post implies. In the 11 new posts, there are quite a few that just don't morethe game on. Admits to having been lurking all game. Comments on how if Galz isn't lynched because his hammer was too-scummy-to-be-scum, then it makes that sort of behaviour not a bad thing for Galz to have done after all.. which is hind of true, but again not moving the game on. I feel like he's avoided doing anything alignment-indicative all game, and is still not active in trying to help narrow the search down. That's a nice position for a scum to be in, especially if another player is hogging all the scrutiny limelight. I do definitely disagree with O about Cuzz's lurkiness: to me he is most definitely still underactive and lurky-looking.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: O on April 21, 2018, 04:33:56 pm
If galz is town, Cuzz/EFHW arenít the scum team.

I like how irrelevant this statement is. I think i am ready to vote: gkrieg13

OK so Lalight replaces in and immediately votes. This is unexpected.

Do we think Town!Lalight replaces in at what is very possibly MYLO and votes immediately?


Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: Cuzz on April 21, 2018, 08:02:12 pm
If galz is town, Cuzz/EFHW arenít the scum team.

I like how irrelevant this statement is. I think i am ready to vote: gkrieg13

OK so Lalight replaces in and immediately votes. This is unexpected.

Do we think Town!Lalight replaces in at what is very possibly MYLO and votes immediately?

I like this point very much.

LL where is your pro-town sense of MYLO restraint? Explain yourself.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: EFHW on April 21, 2018, 10:05:05 pm
I reread TWM and I feel he is likely scum. I have a bias against players who specifically said IDP was scummy, because IDP was being exactly like he always is. It's interesting how Robz and e both flipped town - I had thought one of them was probably scum because of how the end of Day 1 went. Which is one reason Space thinks I'm scum, so I guess we think alike in that respect even though the idea is a complete non-starter.  TWM did a lot of distracting posts and didn't scumhunt. I don't know when his emergency was taking place, but he didn't seem his town!self from the beginning.

Lalight does not feel towny to me. I didn't like his voting gkrieg without any explanation to help other players decide if they agree. So this is where I am planning to vote.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: EFHW on April 21, 2018, 10:29:08 pm
Space is doing a good town!Space, especially early Day 1. They have put a lot of emphasis on how hard they are scumhunting, and are pretty critical of most players. They are overblowing my "misunderstanding" of the setup, but I can see how it reads the way they see it. I was never trying to be comprehensive in stating all the ways we could have 1 nk, and I didn't study the setup looking for all the possible ways. I just wanted to refute gkrieg's statement that scum must know now who the SK is. There also is no contradiction between my making real or imagined mistakes about the setup and my commenting on e stating he didn't read it. That's a common scum maneuver to seem disinterested and worth pointing out.  So there are distortions there that could indicate scum!Space. But at the moment, I'm leaning town!Space.

My problem is I have more townreads than there are town players.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: LaLight on April 22, 2018, 12:49:06 pm
If galz is town, Cuzz/EFHW arenít the scum team.

I like how irrelevant this statement is. I think i am ready to vote: gkrieg13

OK so Lalight replaces in and immediately votes. This is unexpected.

Do we think Town!Lalight replaces in at what is very possibly MYLO and votes immediately?

I like this point very much.

LL where is your pro-town sense of MYLO restraint? Explain yourself.

Itís mylo, not lylo, my vote is first as i checked before voting and can not cause a quickhammer in any way
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: LaLight on April 22, 2018, 12:50:15 pm
If galz is town, Cuzz/EFHW arenít the scum team.

I like how irrelevant this statement is. I think i am ready to vote: gkrieg13

What do you mean irrelevant. We are at MYLO, two people had a chance to hammer galzria. Eliminating possible scum team pairings is important. How on earth does that possibly warrant a vote.

It is irrelevant because we donít know if Galz is town or scum and if we find out heís town by lynhing him, it wonít matter how many pairings you did eliminate beforehand
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: LaLight on April 22, 2018, 12:50:47 pm
And if heís scum, your observation is even more irrelevant
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 22, 2018, 02:54:02 pm
And if heís scum, your observation is even more irrelevant

Ok letís say it is irrelevant. How is that enough to vote?  What about something being irrelevant makes me scummy?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: LaLight on April 22, 2018, 03:28:46 pm
And if heís scum, your observation is even more irrelevant

Ok letís say it is irrelevant. How is that enough to vote?  What about something being irrelevant makes me scummy?

As i have already mentioned, you quarrels with O make it look like you are both scum; while i was reading this game i boticed some things i was sure you were scum because of; canít point now, phone, dama. Anyway, point is i thought you were scum and this irrelevant thing is just a trigger. I am also quite sure that if youíre scum, O is one as well
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: SpaceAnemone on April 22, 2018, 07:28:45 pm
You did one reread and decided that I was the scummiest person?

You were the top scum-candidate on my mind at that moment. I think that you, EFHW and Galz all have scumpoints going for you, but you don't make a sound scumteam because otherwise the end of D2 would be too weird, with you all voting one after another. There are possible scum-pairs and scum-trios with each of you, though.

As far as reading you goes, I think the main things that ring bells are:
* How prepared you came into each of the new days. I know you've argued against that already, but for me it still feels off.
* Related to the first point, but you being a strong later-game player and still being alive in the first place might indicate that you have fewer factions who might want to kill you than most.
* Trying to steer the game towards a massclaim without good justification of how it helps town. I think statistically speaking, there are some justifications, and you're someone who should have been able to find those, but you didn't, which makes me wonder if you're really wanting a massclaim for a townie reason.
* You make a point about potentially having a role we can't have in the game, which felt a lot like a scum who knows more than we do about the setup trying to cover his tracks and pretend to know less, but forgetting exactly what town knows and going too far in the wrong direction.
* You've become quite defensive and direct about challenging people who express any sort scumread on you, even though you're not even the leading wagon, which seems quite jumpy.

Other more minor contributing factors:
* The extra wifom you planted around the possibility of losing mcmc before it happened.
* Two of the players you voted quite briefly in D1 are still alive (Galz and Swan), so one or other (maybe not both) of those make decent light buses for D1.
* You ended up as the first-placed player on the IDP wagon in spite of saying earlier that he was townie.
* You spent much of D2 voting O, who I think is being townie.
* You were also on the Robz misslynch, and while he was being undeniably off in his play, I still think we'll find scum pushing him too.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 22, 2018, 08:10:55 pm
You did one reread and decided that I was the scummiest person?

You were the top scum-candidate on my mind at that moment. I think that you, EFHW and Galz all have scumpoints going for you, but you don't make a sound scumteam because otherwise the end of D2 would be too weird, with you all voting one after another. There are possible scum-pairs and scum-trios with each of you, though.

As far as reading you goes, I think the main things that ring bells are:
* How prepared you came into each of the new days. I know you've argued against that already, but for me it still feels off.

I didn't come prepared.  If you look at the time that I posted, there is plenty of time for me to think about what happened.
* Related to the first point, but you being a strong later-game player and still being alive in the first place might indicate that you have fewer factions who might want to kill you than most.

This is a bad argument.  There are still many people alive that are strong players.  And the people who have died (e, mcmc, faust) are generally regarded as strong players as well.
* Trying to steer the game towards a massclaim without good justification of how it helps town. I think statistically speaking, there are some justifications, and you're someone who should have been able to find those, but you didn't, which makes me wonder if you're really wanting a massclaim for a townie reason.

I already gave my justification.  It would help us because we are at MYLO.  Having another IC would help us, and it is possible that we would have a 1v1, which is easier to analyze than the situation we are in right now.
* You make a point about potentially having a role we can't have in the game, which felt a lot like a scum who knows more than we do about the setup trying to cover his tracks and pretend to know less, but forgetting exactly what town knows and going too far in the wrong direction.

Where did I show that I had more information so that I actually needed to cover my tracks?  I just realized what you are talking about, becasue I thought the SK carried down for all of those letters.
* You've become quite defensive and direct about challenging people who express any sort scumread on you, even though you're not even the leading wagon, which seems quite jumpy.

We are at MYLO.  It doesn't matter if I am the leading wagon or whatever, if I get two votes on me from town, mafia could quickhammer me for the win.  It is also pretty much the only thing that is being talked about, and the day ends fairly soon.  I haven't even been that defensive.  People have expressed scumreads on me for no reason.  I even got a vote for a horrible reason, which has now been backed up with more vague reasoning.  I also thought that TWM was town, and that means that LaLight voting for me could potentially lose us the game.  Also, O, you, and LaLight have expressed scumreads on me.  The point is that I want to stop this before it gets momentum so that we can actually lynch scum.

Other more minor contributing factors:
* The extra wifom you planted around the possibility of losing mcmc before it happened.
I would never do this as scum.
* Two of the players you voted quite briefly in D1 are still alive (Galz and Swan), so one or other (maybe not both) of those make decent light buses for D1.
That only makes sense if galz and swan are scum, which means that this is extremely circumstantial evidence, the kind of evidence LaLight is basing his vote on me for.
* You ended up as the first-placed player on the IDP wagon in spite of saying earlier that he was townie.
I did think he was townie, then thought his later posts were scummy.  That is how this game works, especially D1.
* You spent much of D2 voting O, who I think is being townie.
How is O being townie?
* You were also on the Robz misslynch, and while he was being undeniably off in his play, I still think we'll find scum pushing him too.
You basically answer this one for yourself.  He was being scummy.

Responses in bold
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: gkrieg13 on April 22, 2018, 08:11:54 pm
And if heís scum, your observation is even more irrelevant

Ok letís say it is irrelevant. How is that enough to vote?  What about something being irrelevant makes me scummy?

As i have already mentioned, you quarrels with O make it look like you are both scum; while i was reading this game i boticed some things i was sure you were scum because of; canít point now, phone, dama. Anyway, point is i thought you were scum and this irrelevant thing is just a trigger. I am also quite sure that if youíre scum, O is one as well

Does that work the same way?  If O is scum, does that make me scum?

Also when was the last time that scum actually went at each other like that?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: Swowl on April 23, 2018, 02:43:37 am
If galz is town, Cuzz/EFHW arenít the scum team.

I like how irrelevant this statement is. I think i am ready to vote: gkrieg13

What do you mean irrelevant. We are at MYLO, two people had a chance to hammer galzria. Eliminating possible scum team pairings is important. How on earth does that possibly warrant a vote.

It is irrelevant because we donít know if Galz is town or scum and if we find out heís town by lynhing him, it wonít matter how many pairings you did eliminate beforehand

poppy cock this eliminates skum team pairing. in what frikin world on this site full of damn masterminds would they double hammer as skum? hell to the no. all of you would wait it out for the long game and you know it.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: Swowl on April 23, 2018, 02:55:05 am
If galz is town, Cuzz/EFHW arenít the scum team.

I like how irrelevant this statement is. I think i am ready to vote: gkrieg13

What do you mean irrelevant. We are at MYLO, two people had a chance to hammer galzria. Eliminating possible scum team pairings is important. How on earth does that possibly warrant a vote.

It is irrelevant because we donít know if Galz is town or scum and if we find out heís town by lynhing him, it wonít matter how many pairings you did eliminate beforehand

normally this would make sense, but as Galz has contributed essentially nothing to this game, his pre-disposition of being helpful as town is falling off. He is just another lurker at this point so lynching him either finds skum and yay, or finds town and does the same thing as every other lynch candidate to date imo.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: Swowl on April 23, 2018, 02:57:44 am
alsooo wanted to wait longer but because..

1) This Galz has pretty much sat around until the last 24 hours each day and then acted up to move things around... and we approaching that mark
and
2) Town!Galz, in literally every game we have played together has been town, and also pushed back at me when I skum read him. No push this game.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: Swowl on April 23, 2018, 02:58:33 am
If galz is town, Cuzz/EFHW arenít the scum team.

I like how irrelevant this statement is. I think i am ready to vote: gkrieg13

This actually seems extremely well thought out and I was skum reading TWM. Moving TWM/LL into my null.
OK so Lalight replaces in and immediately votes. This is unexpected.

Do we think Town!Lalight replaces in at what is very possibly MYLO and votes immediately?

I like this point very much.

LL where is your pro-town sense of MYLO restraint? Explain yourself.

Itís mylo, not lylo, my vote is first as i checked before voting and can not cause a quickhammer in any way
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: Swowl on April 23, 2018, 02:59:37 am
If galz is town, Cuzz/EFHW arenít the scum team.

I like how irrelevant this statement is. I think i am ready to vote: gkrieg13

OK so Lalight replaces in and immediately votes. This is unexpected.

Do we think Town!Lalight replaces in at what is very possibly MYLO and votes immediately?

I like this point very much.

LL where is your pro-town sense of MYLO restraint? Explain yourself.

Itís mylo, not lylo, my vote is first as i checked before voting and can not cause a quickhammer in any way

fixed.

This actually seems extremely well thought out and I was skum reading TWM. Moving TWM/LL into my null.


Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: Swowl on April 23, 2018, 03:04:52 am
Unvote For some reason I forgot Datswan remade his vote count. Probably OK anyways but don't want to leave Galz L-2. Still my intent is on Galz atm

2 days left. dont want this post to be forgotten.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: Swowl on April 23, 2018, 03:05:43 am
LL - Don't tell me why GK, but please lmk why NOT Galz?
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: Swowl on April 23, 2018, 03:19:33 am
And if heís scum, your observation is even more irrelevant

Ok letís say it is irrelevant. How is that enough to vote?  What about something being irrelevant makes me scummy?

As i have already mentioned, you quarrels with O make it look like you are both scum; while i was reading this game i boticed some things i was sure you were scum because of; canít point now, phone, dama. Anyway, point is i thought you were scum and this irrelevant thing is just a trigger. I am also quite sure that if youíre scum, O is one as well

Does that work the same way?  If O is scum, does that make me scum?

Also when was the last time that scum actually went at each other like that?

no it doesn't.

can't remember.

the fact you pointed it out makes it possible.
Title: Re: M115: Okkervil River Mafia (D3: Day of our So-Called Friend)
Post by: EFHW on April 23, 2018, 09:09:43 am