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Dominion => Dominion General Discussion => Let's Discuss ... => Topic started by: Chappy7 on March 14, 2018, 12:12:11 pm

Title: Let's Discuss Nocturne Cards: Cobbler
Post by: Chappy7 on March 14, 2018, 12:12:11 pm
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/5/51/Cobbler.jpg/100px-Cobbler.jpg)
By let's discuss, I mostly mean, please somebody tell me how to know when to use this card.

I pretty much buy at least one of these in each kingdom it shows up in because honestly, it's one of the most fun cards in my opinion.  However, when I use it a lot, I usually lose.  (This hasn't stopped me from continuing to buy it yet, but maybe soon I'll get over my infatuation)

Anyway,
When are the best times to get Cobbler?
How many do you want?
Is it weak, or do I just use it wrong?
Isn't it just so much fun to use?
Title: Re: Let's Discuss Nocturne Cards: Cobbler
Post by: Jack Rudd on March 14, 2018, 12:39:17 pm
It's much like other Workshop variants: its strength varies dramatically with the kingdom. Are there $4 cards you want to gain in large quantities?
Title: Re: Let's Discuss Nocturne Cards: Cobbler
Post by: markus on March 14, 2018, 12:44:48 pm
I think that it's rather weak, because it's slow, costs 5, and can only gain cards costing up to 4.

Therefore, you want to get it as soon as possible. Whether you do want it, still depends on the alternatives that cost 5 ... often there's something better and the game is too short to get much out of Cobbler. On weak boards it can be good, however. If there's a weak engine, it might be nice to have 2 Cobblers alternating to ensure that you can kick off.
Title: Re: Let's Discuss Nocturne Cards: Cobbler
Post by: Cave-o-sapien on March 14, 2018, 12:48:47 pm
It feels like this should be gained to your hand.
Title: Re: Let's Discuss Nocturne Cards: Cobbler
Post by: Cuzz on March 14, 2018, 01:39:50 pm
It feels like this should be gained to your hand.

seems like it would compare better to summon that way
Title: Re: Let's Discuss Nocturne Cards: Cobbler
Post by: Dingan on March 14, 2018, 01:52:02 pm
I think it shines when you want your starting hand to be consistent. It's kind of like Dungeon vs. Warehouse, or Ghost Town vs. Village, etc. I think it's an average to slightly-above-average $5. 2 feels like a good number to have - alternating them each turn (similar to Dungeon and Ghost Town). And of course when there are <=$4's you want, and when there are no other power $5's that you need instead. And like all other Night cards, it gels with terminal draw as it cannot be drawn dead (unlike other Workshop variants).
Title: Re: Let's Discuss Nocturne Cards: Cobbler
Post by: aku_chi on March 14, 2018, 01:55:12 pm
Cobbler Cage Match between me and Mic:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xqp7Ne0P1BE

I'm not going to pretend I had high confidence with my Cobbler buys (or non-buys), but Cobbler seemed pretty good in some of the games.  Game 5 was my favorite board of the bunch, and Mic's two Cobblers were far superior to my one.
Title: Re: Let's Discuss Nocturne Cards: Cobbler
Post by: William Howard Taft on March 14, 2018, 01:57:19 pm
Itís great with Shepherd.
Title: Re: Let's Discuss Nocturne Cards: Cobbler
Post by: Chappy7 on March 14, 2018, 02:10:16 pm
It's kinda sad that it doesn't work with cost reduction (other that Bridge Troll and Ferry).  That being said, I had one game with Cobbler and Ferry with Ferry token on Lost City.  That was pretty crazy.  I haven't had Cobbler and Bridge Troll yet, but that sounds like lots of fun.
Title: Re: Let's Discuss Nocturne Cards: Cobbler
Post by: weesh on March 14, 2018, 02:37:15 pm
i keep not buying it, so i'm struggling to evaluate it.

it seems you want a kingdom with a variety of good engine components that cost 4$ or less, so you can grab what you NEED for a turn to work...
But if there are a variety of good engine components that cost 4$ or less, putting together a consistent engine is too easy without it.

It seems like one of those cards, like sacred grove, and skulk, that you buy if they are the only way to gain a second card in a turn.

Quote
It's kinda sad that it doesn't work with cost reduction (other that Bridge Troll and Ferry)
Unfortunately, if bridge troll is in the kingdom, you have strong incentive to not get the cobbler since the bridge troll already gives you two more discounted buys.

Quote
I'm not going to pretend I had high confidence with my Cobbler buys (or non-buys), but Cobbler seemed pretty good in some of the games.  Game 5 was my favorite board of the bunch, and Mic's two Cobblers were far superior to my one.
Could you give me a timecode? Are you talking about the aqueduct/bandit fort game?
I only see four games in that file.
Title: Re: Let's Discuss Nocturne Cards: Cobbler
Post by: aku_chi on March 14, 2018, 03:20:35 pm
Quote
I'm not going to pretend I had high confidence with my Cobbler buys (or non-buys), but Cobbler seemed pretty good in some of the games.  Game 5 was my favorite board of the bunch, and Mic's two Cobblers were far superior to my one.
Could you give me a timecode? Are you talking about the aqueduct/bandit fort game?
I only see four games in that file.

57:15
Masquerade, Port, Enchantress, and more!
Title: Re: Let's Discuss Nocturne Cards: Cobbler
Post by: William Howard Taft on March 14, 2018, 08:04:09 pm
It's kinda sad that it doesn't work with cost reduction (other that Bridge Troll and Ferry).

Prince and Ghost can do it but itís hard to set up.
Title: Re: Let's Discuss Nocturne Cards: Cobbler
Post by: crj on March 14, 2018, 09:07:55 pm
But if there are a variety of good engine components that cost 4$ or less, putting together a consistent engine is too easy without it.
It looks like a nice, reliable way to pick up the Villages and Smithies (or equivalents) you need while focusing on buying payload.

I agree it doesn't seem to work as well as it looks like it should, though. /-8
Title: Re: Let's Discuss Nocturne Cards: Cobbler
Post by: Chase Adolphson on March 14, 2018, 11:34:17 pm
I love this card. You could get a throne room and then play a laboratory twice and get four cards two actions.
Title: Re: Let's Discuss Nocturne Cards: Cobbler
Post by: ipofanes on March 15, 2018, 04:16:59 am
it seems you want a kingdom with a variety of good engine components that cost 4$ or less, so you can grab what you NEED for a turn to work...
But if there are a variety of good engine components that cost 4$ or less, putting together a consistent engine is too easy without it.

I think this is spot on. If you can choose between adding a (Workers/Mining/Fisshing etc) Village or a Smithy to your current hand, it is better than starting your hand with an extra Nobles. The extra card picked up with Ironworks is picked for its potential use, the one picked with Cobbler is chosen with its current use in mind. I think the reasoning is similar to Band of Misfits. With Sheperd, Baron and Tournament on the board, seriously consider buying them.
Title: Re: Let's Discuss Nocturne Cards: Cobbler
Post by: fisherman on March 15, 2018, 10:58:24 am

Quote
It's kinda sad that it doesn't work with cost reduction (other that Bridge Troll and Ferry)
Unfortunately, if bridge troll is in the kingdom, you have strong incentive to not get the cobbler since the bridge troll already gives you two more discounted buys.


I'm skeptical of this part. It seems like Cobbler that can gain 5 costs would be very strong? In particular, you could use it to gain more Bridge Trolls.
Title: Re: Let's Discuss Nocturne Cards: Cobbler
Post by: guidobass on March 15, 2018, 12:47:18 pm
It's kinda sad that it doesn't work with cost reduction (other that Bridge Troll and Ferry).

Prince and Ghost can do it but itís hard to set up.

Prince won't work with a Duration card.
Title: Re: Let's Discuss Nocturne Cards: Cobbler
Post by: William Howard Taft on March 15, 2018, 12:50:28 pm
I meant that Ghost and Prince enable Cobbler with cost reducers other than Bridge Troll and Ferry.
Title: Re: Let's Discuss Nocturne Cards: Cobbler
Post by: Jack Rudd on March 15, 2018, 12:51:02 pm
It's kinda sad that it doesn't work with cost reduction (other that Bridge Troll and Ferry).

Prince and Ghost can do it but itís hard to set up.

Prince won't work with a Duration card.
Prince a Bridge, and then at start of turn, resolve the Bridge before the Cobbler.
Title: Re: Let's Discuss Nocturne Cards: Cobbler
Post by: ackmondual on June 25, 2018, 11:45:56 pm
Interesting that amongst all the "gain a card costing up to 4 coins", this one's the most pricy...
$0 - Alms
$3 - Workshop
$4 - Armory
$5 - Cobbler

Alms is only once per turn, and also restricted if you have your -1 card token (from somewhere else).  Plus, you can't have any Treasure in play, so it's not likely you could meaningfully utilize +Buys with this

Workshop is boring, but tried and true

Armory also forces you to top deck a card (not so great in gaining dead cards like Victory, but otherwise, not to terrible)

This has the benefit of not requiring any +Actions.  And the fact it goes to your hand means it doesn't slow your draw down (unlike Armory).


Cobbler Cage Match between me and Mic:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xqp7Ne0P1BE

I'm not going to pretend I had high confidence with my Cobbler buys (or non-buys), but Cobbler seemed pretty good in some of the games.  Game 5 was my favorite board of the bunch, and Mic's two Cobblers were far superior to my one.
It looks funky how Spoils and Ruins are in the corner like that...
OOOOOO
XOOOOX

Kind of wish it would be its own row, and leave the Kingdom cards to a 2x5 grid!
Title: Re: Let's Discuss Nocturne Cards: Cobbler
Post by: Dingan on June 26, 2018, 01:03:56 pm
$0 - Alms
$3 - Workshop
$4 - Armory
$5 - Cobbler

Funny enough those are the same order when you sort them by how soon the gained card can be in your hand (barring edge cases):
Alms - next turn, next shuffle
Workshop - this turn (potentially), next shuffle
Armory - this turn (potentially), next +card
Cobbler - right now

I do think this reiterates Cobbler's #1 selling point - that it helps with starting hand consistency (along with, as you mention, doesn't require an action).