Dominion Strategy Forum
Dominion => Dominion General Discussion => Topic started by: AJD on February 08, 2018, 08:39:07 am
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Each card on the list has an ability that cannot be executed in a game where the card is in the Black Market deck.
This set of cards has expanded a lot since I originally made this list! The original list was:
Cultist
Duchess
Knights
Rats
Transmute
Treasure Map
(Honorable mention: Fool's Gold, Peddler)
But now there's also:
Avanto
Bustling Village
Changeling
Encampment
Farmers' Market
Fortune
Gladiator
Idol
Magpie
Page
Peasant
Port
Sauna
Small Castle
Temple
Vampire
Villa
Wild Hunt
(I'm assuming that you can't have both cards from a split pile in the Black Market deck in the same game—I guess I'm not sure if that's true though.)
(Edited to fill in the ones I missed.)
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Magpie.
Villa.
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That's what I get for doing this in the middle of the night! (Villa is a good catch, in particular.)
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Humble and King's Castle sort of count, don't they?
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Humble and King's Castle sort of count, don't they?
Eh, only sort of. Humble Castle definitely gives you 1 point if you get it from the Black Market, and King's Castle definitely gives you 2 points, so it seems to me those abilities are still being used.
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Then you also gotta mention that almost all of the cards listed above can still be used for part of their effect at least. I see no problem in particular with Changeling, Fortune, Rats (it's even better when from the Black Market!), Knights, Idol, Sauna and Bustling Village.
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Then you also gotta mention that almost all of the cards listed above can still be used for part of their effect at least. I see no problem in particular with Changeling, Fortune, Rats (it's even better when from the Black Market!), Knights, Idol, Sauna and Bustling Village.
The point is for Rats, Idol, Sauna, etc. they all have a line of text that can't be executed because you'll never have the Avanto, Idol, Rats, etc. needed to execute it. Whereas for Castles, it still has an effect, it's just neutered.
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Peddler is a pretty important one. Being such an honest salesperson and everything.
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You could have honorable mentions for things like Lurker, which don’t lose any explicit functionality, but do lose a lot of their practical use.
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Maybe that’s a bad example actually, since it takes 2 turns to gain something, but you also don’t have to worry about it getting sniped from the trash so it probably more than evens out.
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You still have the other cards in the Traveler line. Why would Page and Peasant be that gimped? They don't really "leech" off others of their pile.
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You still have the other cards in the Traveler line. Why would Page and Peasant be that gimped? They don't really "leech" off others of their pile.
You can't "exchange" a card that comes from the Black Market deck.
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You still have the other cards in the Traveler line. Why would Page and Peasant be that gimped? They don't really "leech" off others of their pile.
You can't "exchange" a card that comes from the Black Market deck.
I thought the rules are that those cards go out face up on the table (so 5 of Teacher, Disciple, Fugitive, etc.). Ditto with something like Cultist.. the Ruins go out on the table (and also happen to be in Supply that you can buy). It's just that you lose the ability to play other Cultists in your hand with only 1 copy available is all.
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You still have the other cards in the Traveler line. Why would Page and Peasant be that gimped? They don't really "leech" off others of their pile.
You can't "exchange" a card that comes from the Black Market deck.
I thought the rules are that those cards go out face up on the table (so 5 of Teacher, Disciple, Fugitive, etc.). Ditto with something like Cultist.. the Ruins go out on the table (and also happen to be in Supply that you can buy). It's just that you lose the ability to play other Cultists in your hand with only 1 copy available is all.
Those cards do go out face up on the table, but you can't exchange the Peasant or the Page because there is no Peasant/Page pile where the Peasant or Page can be returned.
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Ditto with something like Cultist.. the Ruins go out on the table (and also happen to be in Supply that you can buy). It's just that you lose the ability to play other Cultists in your hand with only 1 copy available is all.
Yes, Cultist still gives our Ruins... but saying that you "just" lose the ability to play other Cultists is like saying that Mountebank "just" gives out 2 junk cards at once. It's the entire reason it's one of, if not the strongest, (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/7/7d/Coin5.png/16px-Coin5.png) card in the game. Without that, it's just a strictly worse version of Witch (which still would be a card you'd want, yes.) But does lose functionality for being in the Black Market deck.
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Ditto with something like Cultist.. the Ruins go out on the table (and also happen to be in Supply that you can buy). It's just that you lose the ability to play other Cultists in your hand with only 1 copy available is all.
Yes, Cultist still gives our Ruins... but saying that you "just" lose the ability to play other Cultists is like saying that Mountebank "just" gives out 2 junk cards at once. It's the entire reason it's one of, if not the strongest, (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/7/7d/Coin5.png/16px-Coin5.png) card in the game. Without that, it's just a strictly worse version of Witch (which still would be a card you'd want, yes.) But does lose functionality for being in the Black Market deck.
Not strictly worse, just mostly worse: on-trash effect, gives out junk if Curses are empty, sometimes Ruins are better than Curses. (someone had to point it out, sorry)
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Ditto with something like Cultist.. the Ruins go out on the table (and also happen to be in Supply that you can buy). It's just that you lose the ability to play other Cultists in your hand with only 1 copy available is all.
Yes, Cultist still gives our Ruins... but saying that you "just" lose the ability to play other Cultists is like saying that Mountebank "just" gives out 2 junk cards at once. It's the entire reason it's one of, if not the strongest, (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/7/7d/Coin5.png/16px-Coin5.png) card in the game. Without that, it's just a strictly worse version of Witch (which still would be a card you'd want, yes.) But does lose functionality for being in the Black Market deck.
Not strictly worse, just mostly worse: on-trash effect, gives out junk if Curses are empty, sometimes Ruins are better than Curses. (someone had to point it out, sorry)
When is it ever better to give out Ruins than Curses? A Curse is a dead card whose type interacts with almost nothing and is worth negative points. When is that ever preferable to getting a Ruin?
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Ditto with something like Cultist.. the Ruins go out on the table (and also happen to be in Supply that you can buy). It's just that you lose the ability to play other Cultists in your hand with only 1 copy available is all.
Yes, Cultist still gives our Ruins... but saying that you "just" lose the ability to play other Cultists is like saying that Mountebank "just" gives out 2 junk cards at once. It's the entire reason it's one of, if not the strongest, (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/7/7d/Coin5.png/16px-Coin5.png) card in the game. Without that, it's just a strictly worse version of Witch (which still would be a card you'd want, yes.) But does lose functionality for being in the Black Market deck.
Not strictly worse, just mostly worse: on-trash effect, gives out junk if Curses are empty, sometimes Ruins are better than Curses. (someone had to point it out, sorry)
When is it ever better to give out Ruins than Curses? A Curse is a dead card whose type interacts with almost nothing and is worth negative points. When is that ever preferable to getting a Ruin?
Farming Village, Wolf Den, Wishing Well, Mystic, Fortune Teller...
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Ditto with something like Cultist.. the Ruins go out on the table (and also happen to be in Supply that you can buy). It's just that you lose the ability to play other Cultists in your hand with only 1 copy available is all.
Yes, Cultist still gives our Ruins... but saying that you "just" lose the ability to play other Cultists is like saying that Mountebank "just" gives out 2 junk cards at once. It's the entire reason it's one of, if not the strongest, (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/7/7d/Coin5.png/16px-Coin5.png) card in the game. Without that, it's just a strictly worse version of Witch (which still would be a card you'd want, yes.) But does lose functionality for being in the Black Market deck.
Not strictly worse, just mostly worse: on-trash effect, gives out junk if Curses are empty, sometimes Ruins are better than Curses. (someone had to point it out, sorry)
I had forgotten about the on-trash, but the other things I considered to be extreme enough edge cases that I rejected them.
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Ditto with something like Cultist.. the Ruins go out on the table (and also happen to be in Supply that you can buy). It's just that you lose the ability to play other Cultists in your hand with only 1 copy available is all.
Yes, Cultist still gives our Ruins... but saying that you "just" lose the ability to play other Cultists is like saying that Mountebank "just" gives out 2 junk cards at once. It's the entire reason it's one of, if not the strongest, (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/7/7d/Coin5.png/16px-Coin5.png) card in the game. Without that, it's just a strictly worse version of Witch (which still would be a card you'd want, yes.) But does lose functionality for being in the Black Market deck.
Not strictly worse, just mostly worse: on-trash effect, gives out junk if Curses are empty, sometimes Ruins are better than Curses. (someone had to point it out, sorry)
When is it ever better to give out Ruins than Curses? A Curse is a dead card whose type interacts with almost nothing and is worth negative points. When is that ever preferable to getting a Ruin?
Farming Village, Wolf Den, Wishing Well, Mystic, Fortune Teller...
Also Golem and Wandering Minstrel.
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So yeah, after writing that I realized that Quest is something that potentially makes Curses better, in addition to the stuff already mentioned. Also possibly Defiled Shrine and Ritual if you want to save the Curses for yourself.
Oh, yeah, and then there was that game where I bought Marauder instead of Sea Hag to screw with the other guy's Hunting Parties. D'oh, how did I forget that?
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Ditto with something like Cultist.. the Ruins go out on the table (and also happen to be in Supply that you can buy). It's just that you lose the ability to play other Cultists in your hand with only 1 copy available is all.
Yes, Cultist still gives our Ruins... but saying that you "just" lose the ability to play other Cultists is like saying that Mountebank "just" gives out 2 junk cards at once. It's the entire reason it's one of, if not the strongest, (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/thumb/7/7d/Coin5.png/16px-Coin5.png) card in the game. Without that, it's just a strictly worse version of Witch (which still would be a card you'd want, yes.) But does lose functionality for being in the Black Market deck.
Not strictly worse, just mostly worse: on-trash effect, gives out junk if Curses are empty, sometimes Ruins are better than Curses. (someone had to point it out, sorry)
I had forgotten about the on-trash, but the other things I considered to be extreme enough edge cases that I rejected them.
In the context of Black Market games "extreme" edge cases become much more common. I wouldn't consider Curses running out particularly extreme either.
Patrol is another that can make Curses better to have than Ruins.