Dominion Strategy Forum

Dominion => Dominion General Discussion => Topic started by: AJD on January 20, 2018, 04:07:59 am

Title: How thematic are card names?
Post by: AJD on January 20, 2018, 04:07:59 am
Something I've been thinking about cataloguing for a while: my opinions on how thematic the names of Dominon cards are—that is, how well do the names of the cards correspond to what the cards do? I'm largely going by gut feeling here, but my rough standard is this:

*: No particular relationship between card effect and name.

**: You can tell a reasonable story that kind of justifies it ("a village has a lot of people who can do things for you at once")

***: There's an intuitively clear relationship between the name of the card and its ability ("a workshop is where you make stuff"), or there's a fairly detailed, even if non-obvious, story that makes sense ("I get it, the bureaucrat slows you down with red tape and takes bribes").

****: You can describe the main effect of the card in a way that also makes perfect sense to someone who doesn't know you're talking about Dominion ("a thief steals your treasures").

Here are my card name thematicity ratings for the base set (first edition). Expansions to follow!

*:
Chancellor
Woodcutter

*½:
Feast
Gardens
Library

**:
Chapel
Village
Smithy
Throne Room
Festival
Laboratory
Adventurer

**½:
Cellar
Council Room

***:
Workshop
Bureaucrat
Remodel
Market
Mine

***½:
Militia
Moneylender
Spy

****:
Moat
Thief
Witch

Now you can debate how wrong my opinions are!
Title: Re: How thematic are card names?
Post by: weesh on January 20, 2018, 11:30:20 am
young witch is my favorite....you are safe if you hide in your cellar!
Title: Re: How thematic are card names?
Post by: AJD on January 20, 2018, 08:42:18 pm
The list for Intrigue (first edition)! Now that there are previous cards that new cards can refer to, it's possible for the thematicity of a card to be derived from other cards with related names. For instance, Mining Village's name makes more sense in the context of the fact that Village already exists than it would independently, and its score reflects that.

*½:
Harem
Nobles

**:
Courtyard
Shanty Town
Baron
Bridge
Minion
Tribute

**½:
Pawn
Secret Chamber
Great Hall
Steward
Conspirator
Duke
Trading Post

***:
Masquerade
Wishing Well
Ironworks
Scout
Upgrade

***½:
Swindler
Coppersmith
Mining Village

****:
Saboteur
Torturer
Title: Re: How thematic are card names?
Post by: AJD on January 21, 2018, 03:30:41 pm
Seaside! At this point, the theme of the expansion can be taken into account a bit as well. Sea Hag becomes a bit more thematic if you just accept that "from the sea" means "affects the next turn".

*½:
Native Village

**:
Ambassador
Explorer
Outpost
Wharf

**½:
Warehouse
Caravan
Bazaar
Ghost Ship

***:
Haven
Lighthouse
Fishing Village
Lookout
Smugglers
Navigator
Tactician

***½:
Island
Salvager
Sea Hag
Treasure Map
Merchant Ship

****:
Embargo
Pearl Diver
Cutpurse
Pirate Ship


This also seems like a good time to rate the early promos:
Envoy: *½
Black Market: ****
Stash: ***½
Title: Re: How thematic are card names?
Post by: AJD on January 22, 2018, 02:50:54 pm
Alchemy!

*½:
Vineyard
Herbalist
Apothecary

**:
University
Alchemist

***:
Transmute
Scrying Pool
Familiar
Philosopher's Stone
Apprentice

***½:
Golem

****:
Possession
Title: Re: How thematic are card names?
Post by: GendoIkari on January 22, 2018, 03:21:33 pm
Can you imagine what a horrible attack Possession would be if its behavior were even more thematic to the name? I imagine it would more or less be "you control the player to your left during his or her next turn (you see all cards he or she can see and make all decisions for him or her)".

So, basically an attack that gives out as many Curses as you can generate +buys. And gives out Coppers and Estates when Curses run out. AND makes your opponent lose their turn.
Title: Re: How thematic are card names?
Post by: weesh on January 22, 2018, 04:31:11 pm
Can you imagine what a horrible attack Possession would be if its behavior were even more thematic to the name?

I've never played it, but it seems less awful to give them your hand, and let them take a turn, than for you to reveal your hand, and then be forced to follow their verbal instructions, like some sort of unwilling but impotent puppet.
Title: Re: How thematic are card names?
Post by: AJD on January 23, 2018, 03:44:56 am
Prosperity:

*½:
Quarry
Hoard

**:
Trade Route
Talisman
Worker's Village
Contraband
Rabble
Bank
Forge

**½:
Loan
Royal Seal
Goons
Peddler

***:
Bishop
Monument
Counting House
Vault
Venture
Grand Market
Expand
King's Court

***½:
Watchtower
City
Mint
Mountebank
Title: Re: How thematic are card names?
Post by: weesh on January 24, 2018, 12:24:05 am
*½:
Quarry

if you own the quarry, everything is cheaper to build. 
to you want to pay for all the stones to build that village, or do you want to just transport them from your very own quarry?
I'd call that one a slam dunk.
Title: Re: How thematic are card names?
Post by: Cave-o-sapien on January 24, 2018, 01:25:31 am
It's really too bad 'Loan' was used before debt tokens.
Title: Re: How thematic are card names?
Post by: faust on January 24, 2018, 02:34:27 am
*½:
Quarry

if you own the quarry, everything is cheaper to build. 
to you want to pay for all the stones to build that village Doctor, or do you want to just transport them from your very own quarry?
I'd call that one a slam dunk.
FTFY
Title: Re: How thematic are card names?
Post by: ipofanes on January 24, 2018, 04:24:05 am
I would give points for consistency. You may disagree that a Smithy has to do with drawing cards (I surely do), but once you have accepted it, you will see some consistency in Royal Blacksmith, and inconsistency in Forge. If Markets provide buy and coin, Grand Market is fair game, Villa could have been a market, and Bazaar is just misleading (I may have lost early games thinking a Bazaar delivers +buy). In this vein, I would rate Native Village a lot higher, once I have accepted that villages net Actions. Once I played NVs in the turns after being attacked by Sea Hag, putting all the curses on the mat. I really felt like a slimy merchant selling glass beads and moonshine to the locals.

As an aside, after they started to translate all Upgrade-like cards into German using names ending with --bau, I was disappointed that they didn't name "Abbruch" (Dismantle) "Rückbau", for a card whose first incarnation was in German to boot.

To me, theme is less like a feeling of immersion in the world being reenacted by the game and more about mnemonics. Therefore, consistency in naming is important.
Title: Re: How thematic are card names?
Post by: weesh on January 24, 2018, 11:21:17 am
*½:
Quarry

if you own the quarry, everything is cheaper to build. 
to you want to pay for all the stones to build that village Doctor, or do you want to just transport them from your very own quarry?
I'd call that one a slam dunk.
FTFY

You made me chuckle.
But no card stands up to that level of scrutiny.

In magic the gathering, it's quite thematic that giving a creature a sword increases the damage it can do...
Until you give the sword to an ooze or a camel or something too small to wield it, or a human already holding six swords.

I agree with the OP that witch and moat are quite thematic, but the combination of them together is a flavor fail.  why would a moat stop a witch from cursing you? 

Identifying the cases where the theme is stupid does not change the fact that the theme makes good general sense.
Title: Re: How thematic are card names?
Post by: mameluke on January 24, 2018, 11:23:36 am
Quarry is also used with the same effect in Puerto Rico.
Title: Re: How thematic are card names?
Post by: greybirdofprey on January 24, 2018, 11:40:39 am
*½:
Quarry

if you own the quarry, everything is cheaper to build. 
to you want to pay for all the stones to build that village Doctor, or do you want to just transport them from your very own quarry?
I'd call that one a slam dunk.
FTFY

You made me chuckle.
But no card stands up to that level of scrutiny.

In magic the gathering, it's quite thematic that giving a creature a sword increases the damage it can do...
Until you give the sword to an ooze or a camel or something too small to wield it, or a human already holding six swords.

I agree with the OP that witch and moat are quite thematic, but the combination of them together is a flavor fail.  why would a moat stop a witch from cursing you? 

Identifying the cases where the theme is stupid does not change the fact that the theme makes good general sense.

I'm now picturing a Witch standing on the other side of a closed drawbridge thinking about what to do.
Most attacks are just people who can be prevented from entering your stronghold or kingdom or whatever with a moat.

Pirate Ship, Ghost Ship, Scrying Pool, Relic, Idol, Catapult... not so much.

Caravan Guard speeds up when he/she hears the kingdom is under attack, a horse trader grabs a horse and hurries for backup...
No idea how someone else acquiring a Province turns your Fool's Gold into real Gold.
Title: Re: How thematic are card names?
Post by: AJD on January 24, 2018, 02:24:59 pm
*½:
Farming Village
Princess

**:
Horse Traders
Followers
Trusty Steed

**½:
Fortune Teller
Remake
Horn of Plenty
Jester

***:
Hamlet
Menagerie
Harvest
Diadem

***½:
Tournament
Hunting Party
Fairgrounds

****:
Young Witch
Bag of Gold
Title: Re: How thematic are card names?
Post by: weesh on January 24, 2018, 03:23:38 pm
***½:
Tournament

This is gamer-level nitpicking, since you're only a half-star off, but I'd give tournament 4 stars easily.  It's my pick for the number one most thematic card in the game.

What's more flavorful than "if you win the tournament, you will gain the princesses favor"?
The mechanics of the card are wonky as hell, because they are working so damn hard to emulate that idea.
Title: Re: How thematic are card names?
Post by: LaLight on January 24, 2018, 03:39:16 pm
Nearly half a year ago i realised that princess is very thematic... you give your princess’ hand to other kingdoms and they make you discounts
Title: Re: How thematic are card names?
Post by: William Howard Taft on January 24, 2018, 03:44:02 pm
**:
Contraband

Big disagree on this one. Contraband is totally thematic.

Contraband: n. goods or merchandise whose importation, exportation, or possession is forbidden
Title: Re: How thematic are card names?
Post by: AJD on January 24, 2018, 03:53:58 pm
**:
Contraband

Big disagree on this one. Contraband is totally thematic.

Contraband: n. goods or merchandise whose importation, exportation, or possession is forbidden

What I was thinking was, contraband is goods whose importation is forbidden, but Contraband the Dominion card has the effect of making something else forbidden. So it's related, but not quite on-point. Maybe two stars was a little weak for that; two and a half or three might be fair.
Title: Re: How thematic are card names?
Post by: GendoIkari on January 24, 2018, 04:59:36 pm
**:
Contraband

Big disagree on this one. Contraband is totally thematic.

Contraband: n. goods or merchandise whose importation, exportation, or possession is forbidden

What I was thinking was, contraband is goods whose importation is forbidden, but Contraband the Dominion card has the effect of making something else forbidden. So it's related, but not quite on-point. Maybe two stars was a little weak for that; two and a half or three might be fair.

So it should be called Contrabander.
Title: Re: How thematic are card names?
Post by: Awaclus on January 24, 2018, 05:08:29 pm
**:
Contraband

Big disagree on this one. Contraband is totally thematic.

Contraband: n. goods or merchandise whose importation, exportation, or possession is forbidden

What I was thinking was, contraband is goods whose importation is forbidden, but Contraband the Dominion card has the effect of making something else forbidden. So it's related, but not quite on-point. Maybe two stars was a little weak for that; two and a half or three might be fair.

So it should be called Contrabander.

Or the contrabandest!
Title: Re: How thematic are card names?
Post by: theory on January 24, 2018, 05:14:37 pm
Torturer is surely the most thematically appropriate Dominion card, for the simple reason that it genuinely evokes that theme within the player itself and not just his deck :)
Title: Re: How thematic are card names?
Post by: Donald X. on January 24, 2018, 08:27:57 pm
I agree with the OP that witch and moat are quite thematic, but the combination of them together is a flavor fail.  why would a moat stop a witch from cursing you? 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aopdD9Cu-So
Title: Re: How thematic are card names?
Post by: greybirdofprey on January 25, 2018, 05:06:57 am
*:
Giant

The card is the same size as all other cards.
Title: Re: How thematic are card names?
Post by: AJD on January 25, 2018, 12:17:35 pm
*:
Nomad Camp
Spice Merchant

*½:
Mandarin
Margrave

**:
Oasis
Scheme
Silk Road
Farmland

**½:
Crossroads
Duchess
Fool's Gold
Embassy

***:
Develop
Oracle
Tunnel
Jack of all Trades
Trader
Cartographer
Haggler
Highway
Inn
Stables
Border Village

***½:
Cache

****:
Noble Brigand
Ill-Gotten Gains


Oh and uh:
Walled Village: **½
Governor: ***½
Title: Re: How thematic are card names?
Post by: AJD on January 25, 2018, 12:23:11 pm
(The rating for Governor is based in part on thematicity to the game Puerto Rico, which it was based on.)
Title: Re: How thematic are card names?
Post by: ipofanes on January 26, 2018, 03:39:01 am
I don't see where Stables is particularly thematic. On the other hand I'd like to include a shoutout for Spice Merchant. He is a merchant so he trades you something for something else, and you may choose. Variety is the spice of life!
Title: Re: How thematic are card names?
Post by: AJD on January 26, 2018, 03:51:04 am
I don't see where Stables is particularly thematic. On the other hand I'd like to include a shoutout for Spice Merchant. He is a merchant so he trades you something for something else, and you may choose. Variety is the spice of life!

I was thinking that Stables is, you put down some money to rent a horse so you can move rapidly through your kingdom. It gets a high score for the same reason as Bureaucrat: the explanation isn't immediately obvious, but once you come up with it it works pretty well for how detailed it is.
Title: Re: How thematic are card names?
Post by: ackmondual on January 26, 2018, 11:36:59 pm
Hunting Parties and Scouting Parties often lead to finding Gold in Tunnels :)

Venture is a subset of Adventurer

Minion is a subset of Dominion

all of the cards pertaining to land often give points, and appropriately color-coded green.
Title: Re: How thematic are card names?
Post by: AJD on January 27, 2018, 02:34:58 pm
*½:
Feodum
Wandering Minstrel

**:
Vagrant
Forager
Hermit
Sage
Urchin
Armory
Death Cart
Scavenger
Catacombs
Count
Rogue
Hunting Grounds
Survivors
Overgrown Estate

**½:
Market Square
Ironmonger
Counterfeit
Cultist
Mystic
Madman
Spoils
Necropolis

***:
Poor House
Squire
Storeroom
Fortress
Procession
Bandit Camp
Junk Dealer
Knights
Rebuild
Altar
Abandoned Mine
Ruined Library
Hovel

***½:
Band of Misfits
Graverobber
Pillage
Mercenary
Ruined Market
Ruined Village

****:
Beggar
Marauder
Rats
Title: Re: How thematic are card names?
Post by: weesh on January 27, 2018, 05:05:54 pm
***:
Knights

I'd put knights at 4 stars.
them being both offensive, but also defending attacks by knights with other knights is very flavorful.
Title: Re: How thematic are card names?
Post by: AJD on January 28, 2018, 12:50:03 pm
*:
Journeyman

*½:
Candlestick Maker
Baker

**:
Masterpiece
Plaza
Soothsayer

**½:
Stonemason

***:
Doctor
Advisor
Taxman
Butcher

***½:
Herald
Merchant Guild
Title: Re: How thematic are card names?
Post by: AJD on January 30, 2018, 02:43:41 am
*:
Plan
Seaway

*½:
Messenger
Storyteller
Quest

**:
Coin of the Realm
Amulet
Gear
Port
Ranger
Relic
Hireling
Disciple
Hero
Expedition
Ball

**½:
Lost City
Wine Merchant
Treasure Hunter
Travelling Fair
Pilgrimage

***:
Page
Peasant
Ratcatcher
Raze
Caravan Guard
Dungeon
Guide
Artificer
Haunted Woods
Swamp Hag
Soldier
Fugitive
Warrior
Champion
Ferry
Mission
Raid
Lost Arts
Training
Pathfinding

***½:
Magpie
Miser
Bridge Troll
Distant Lands
Giant
Treasure Trove
Scouting Party
Bonfire
Trade
Inheritance

****:
Duplicate
Transmogrify
Royal Carriage
Teacher
Alms
Borrow
Save



Plus,
Prince: ***
Summon: ***½
Title: Re: How thematic are card names?
Post by: ipofanes on January 30, 2018, 03:39:19 am
I would have put both these at ****:

*½:
Storyteller

I found her very apt, as the story continues as long as people are tossing coins.

Quote
***:
Ratcatcher

Here, the theme works wonders with the card art.

Title: Re: How thematic are card names?
Post by: terminalCopper on January 30, 2018, 05:05:44 am
*:
Plan

I’d give Plan  *** or even ****.

Because whenever I buy Plan, I have a plan.

If I said this about my other purchases, it would be a lie.
Title: Re: How thematic are card names?
Post by: weesh on January 30, 2018, 08:58:17 am
*:
Plan
I’d give Plan  *** or even ****.

I agree with both of you.
It's a different kind of *** or ****

The actual mechanics make no sense, but it's similar in feel to how...good?...torturer feels.

It is really satisfying from a human feeling achieved while playing the game, rather than a "oh how clever, the sentry doesn't let people past unless you want them too" sort of feel.
Title: Re: How thematic are card names?
Post by: AJD on February 01, 2018, 03:41:48 am
*:
Settlers
Forum
Basilica
Labyrinth
Palace

*½:
Small Castle
Villa
Charm
Banquet
Aqueduct
Colonnade
Keep
Mountain Pass

**:
Patrician
Humble Castle
Wild Hunt
Delve
Wedding
Conquest
Arena
Battlefield
Obelisk
Orchard

**½:
City Quarter
Overlord
Crumbling Castle
Opulent Castle
Farmers' Market
Annex
Tower
Triumphal Arch

***:
Engineer
Plunder
Emporium
Grand Castle
King's Castle
Rocks
Enchantress
Gladiator
Fortune
Sacrifice
Archive
Crown
Legionary
Triumph
Advance
Ritual
Windfall
Dominate
Bandit Fort
Defiled Shrine
Wolf Den

***½:
Royal Blacksmith
Encampment
Bustling Village
Haunted Castle
Sprawling Castle
Catapult
Temple
Groundskeeper
Donate
Baths
Fountain
Tomb

****:
Chariot Race
Capital
Tax
Salt the Earth
Museum
Wall
Title: Re: How thematic are card names?
Post by: weesh on February 01, 2018, 11:04:08 pm
**:
Wedding

really?
wedding is hyper flavorful!

1) throw a party, going into debt
2) get gifts from the guests
3) get tired of your wife, and decide to have another wedding the next turn
4) marry a few more times because, why not?

see it's perfect!
Title: Re: How thematic are card names?
Post by: AJD on February 02, 2018, 02:03:08 am
*½:
Mill

**:
Vassal
Poacher
Diplomat

**½:
Merchant
Lurker
Secret Passage
Courtier

***:
Harbinger
Artisan
Patrol
Replace

***½:
Bandit
Sentry
Title: Re: How thematic are card names?
Post by: weesh on February 02, 2018, 11:12:02 am
***:
Harbinger
Artisan

Harbinger is a bit philosophical...
Do the people come because the harbinger foretold it, or does the harbinger foretell it because the people are coming?
Depending on how you feel abut that, could be a ** or a ****.  *** feels about right.

Customer: "by the way, Lou's been telling everyone that you're gonna be in the village tomorrow, and people have been gathering tools for you to sharpen"
blacksmith: "that son of a bitch, he knows saturday is my day off!"

---

What's the story behind artisan that gets it a high ranking?
I don't think I'm creative enough this early in the morning to know why you rated it as such.
Title: Re: How thematic are card names?
Post by: AJD on February 02, 2018, 11:48:58 am

What's the story behind artisan that gets it a high ranking?
I don't think I'm creative enough this early in the morning to know why you rated it as such.

No story there; it just gets *** for the same reason e.g. Workshop does. An artisan is someone who makes things skillfully; the name on a $5-gainer just makes me think, hm, yeah, that name makes sense.
Title: Re: How thematic are card names?
Post by: AJD on February 03, 2018, 12:24:41 am
And, to conclude:

*:
Pooka
The Field's Gift
The Sea's Gift
The Sky's Gift

*½:
Tracker
Skulk
Den of Sin
Ghost
The Earth's Gift

**:
Bard
Idol
Tormentor
Pasture
Pouch
Imp
The Forest's Gift
The Moon's Gift
The River's Gift
Delusion
Fear
Lost in the Woods

**½:
Monastery
Ghost Town
Cemetery
Conclave
Exorcist
Shepherd
Cobbler
Crypt
Cursed Village
Envy
Famine
Plague

***:
Druid
Pixie
Night Watchman
Secret Cave
Blessed Village
Sacred Grove
Goat
Zombie Mason
The Mountain's Gift
The Wind's Gift
Bad Omens
Greed
Haunting
Locusts
Misery
Poverty
War

***½:
Faithful Hound
Changeling
Fool
Devil's Workshop
Tragic Hero
Magic Lamp
Will o' Wisp
Bat
Zombie Apprentice
Zombie Spy
The Flame's Gift

****:
Guardian
Leprechaun
Necromancer
Vampire
Werewolf
Haunted Mirror
Cursed Gold
Lucky Coin
Wish
The Swamp's Gift

Plus:
Sauna: **
Avanto: **
Dismantle ***
Title: Re: How thematic are card names?
Post by: Eran of Arcadia on February 05, 2018, 10:38:05 am
I'd rank Cobbler higher, since it's a "night workshop" and the art implies the Cobbler and the Elves story.
Title: Re: How thematic are card names?
Post by: AJD on February 05, 2018, 10:51:46 am
I'd rank Cobbler higher, since it's a "night workshop" and the art implies the Cobbler and the Elves story.

I mean, yeah, I get what you mean. But in the story, it's the elves, not the shoemaker, who cobble things up at night, so it loses a bit for that.
Title: Re: How thematic are card names?
Post by: markusin on February 05, 2018, 10:56:18 am
I'd rank Cobbler higher, since it's a "night workshop" and the art implies the Cobbler and the Elves story.

I mean, yeah, I get what you mean. But in the story, it's the elves, not the shoemaker, who cobble things up at night, so it loses a bit for that.

I don't know, can't we assume cobblers will have elf backup in the world of Nocturne? Without the Nocturne context, I'd agree that thematically it is not super great.
Title: Re: How thematic are card names?
Post by: weesh on February 05, 2018, 11:16:10 am
I'd have bumped goat up to ****.  how many cards are slam dunks in three words?
"goats eat anything"
A lot of the trashers are most thematic when they trash things you are never going to realistically trash with them, and don't make a ton of sense when you use them on your starting cards.  Bonfire? Sentry?
But a goat eating your money and home resonates extremely well.

This has been my favorite thread.  The flavor has always been a draw to any game for me.
Title: Re: How thematic are card names?
Post by: werothegreat on February 05, 2018, 11:25:09 am
Mill is totally flavorful.  You're grinding up wheat (discarding cards) for profit!  And it takes up land, which is worth something.
Title: Re: How thematic are card names?
Post by: AJD on February 05, 2018, 11:39:37 am
Mill is totally flavorful.  You're grinding up wheat (discarding cards) for profit!  And it takes up land, which is worth something.

Eh, most Victory card names refer to the land or territory itself, not the buildings on them, and are sources of glory or prestige. Any shmo can have a mill.
Title: Re: How thematic are card names?
Post by: Gazbag on February 05, 2018, 11:46:15 am
Pasture seems pretty underrated here. The more land you have, the bigger your Pasture is!

Trashing flavour is all over the place. Graverobber, Cemetery, Necromancer etc. tell us that trashed things are dead, so what exactly is that Bishop up to?
Title: Re: How thematic are card names?
Post by: AJD on February 05, 2018, 11:57:03 am
Pasture seems pretty underrated here. The more land you have, the bigger your Pasture is!

Yeah maybe. Why is it a Treasure though?

Quote
Trashing flavour is all over the place. Graverobber, Cemetery, Necromancer etc. tell us that trashed things are dead, so what exactly is that Bishop up to?

Yeah there seems to be a bunch of different flavor elements associated with trashing. "Trashed things are dead" is one, and it's intuitively sensible but seems like a relatively late addition to the theme? The earliest clear trashing flavor is "trashing is associated with religion and the church (for some reason)", which applies at least to Chapel, Bishop, Altar, Temple, and Monastery. And then there's "trashing is commerce"—Moneylender, Trading Post, Trade Route, Loan, Trader, Mercenary.
Title: Re: How thematic are card names?
Post by: Gazbag on February 05, 2018, 12:06:53 pm
Pasture seems pretty underrated here. The more land you have, the bigger your Pasture is!

Yeah maybe. Why is it a Treasure though?

You sell the wool I guess.

Title: Re: How thematic are card names?
Post by: markusin on February 05, 2018, 02:56:01 pm
Pasture seems pretty underrated here. The more land you have, the bigger your Pasture is!

Trashing flavour is all over the place. Graverobber, Cemetery, Necromancer etc. tell us that trashed things are dead, so what exactly is that Bishop up to?

Or that Lurker?
Title: Re: How thematic are card names?
Post by: michaeljb on February 05, 2018, 04:19:17 pm
The earliest clear trashing flavor is "trashing is associated with religion and the church (for some reason)", which applies at least to Chapel, Bishop, Altar, Temple, and Monastery.

I think the reason for this is that you're giving away things to the church; Donate also fits that flavor.
Title: Re: How thematic are card names?
Post by: navical on February 05, 2018, 07:06:51 pm
I've always read the theme of Chapel as being "the things you most want to trash are Curses, and so you go to the chapel to receive a blessing and remove your Curse". Which doesn't make so much thematic sense for trashing Coppers, or Estates.

(I suspect this theme makes some newbies slower to learn the power of trashing starting cards...)
Title: Re: How thematic are card names?
Post by: Cave-o-sapien on February 06, 2018, 10:04:01 pm
Pasture seems pretty underrated here. The more land you have, the bigger your Pasture is!

Yeah maybe. Why is it a Treasure though?

Quote
Trashing flavour is all over the place. Graverobber, Cemetery, Necromancer etc. tell us that trashed things are dead, so what exactly is that Bishop up to?

Yeah there seems to be a bunch of different flavor elements associated with trashing. "Trashed things are dead" is one, and it's intuitively sensible but seems like a relatively late addition to the theme? The earliest clear trashing flavor is "trashing is associated with religion and the church (for some reason)", which applies at least to Chapel, Bishop, Altar, Temple, and Monastery. And then there's "trashing is commerce"—Moneylender, Trading Post, Trade Route, Loan, Trader, Mercenary.

I think the different "thematic skins" for trashing is an interesting thread on its own.

I always felt like Chapel evoked the desire to rid oneself of worldly possessions in an attempt to be more holy. With Bishop, Temple and Sacrifice, you have the option of trashing cards you own for points, which could be interpreted as some sort of divine reward. And of course Ritual puts a dark spin on this.
Title: Re: How thematic are card names?
Post by: AJD on February 07, 2018, 01:27:50 am
Pasture seems pretty underrated here. The more land you have, the bigger your Pasture is!

Yeah maybe. Why is it a Treasure though?

Quote
Trashing flavour is all over the place. Graverobber, Cemetery, Necromancer etc. tell us that trashed things are dead, so what exactly is that Bishop up to?

Yeah there seems to be a bunch of different flavor elements associated with trashing. "Trashed things are dead" is one, and it's intuitively sensible but seems like a relatively late addition to the theme? The earliest clear trashing flavor is "trashing is associated with religion and the church (for some reason)", which applies at least to Chapel, Bishop, Altar, Temple, and Monastery. And then there's "trashing is commerce"—Moneylender, Trading Post, Trade Route, Loan, Trader, Mercenary.

I think the different "thematic skins" for trashing is an interesting thread on its own.

I always felt like Chapel evoked the desire to rid oneself of worldly possessions in an attempt to be more holy. With Bishop, Temple and Sacrifice, you have the option of trashing cards you own for points, which could be interpreted as some sort of divine reward. And of course Ritual puts a dark spin on this.

The reason I like Temple so much is because "what do you call a chapel that's also a monument?"
Title: Re: How thematic are card names?
Post by: LastFootnote on February 07, 2018, 11:50:04 am
**:
Wedding

really?
wedding is hyper flavorful!

1) throw a party, going into debt
2) get gifts from the guests
3) get tired of your wife, and decide to have another wedding the next turn
4) marry a few more times because, why not?

see it's perfect!

Wedding was more flavorful when it got you a Boon rather than +1 VP. You get a gift! Who knows what it will be.
Title: Re: How thematic are card names?
Post by: AJD on February 07, 2018, 09:19:28 pm
I think Wedding's not that bad with the VP; at least, it makes it more similar to the thematically-similar Harem.

Also I just noticed that in the card art for Pooka (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/File:PookaArt.jpg), the pooka is handing the player cursed gold. "Here, you don't want to trash this, do you?"
Title: Re: How thematic are card names?
Post by: AJD on November 23, 2018, 11:11:33 pm
*:
Pageant
Exploration
Piazza

*½:
Research
Silk Merchant
Citadel

**:
Ducat
Hideout
Patron
Scholar
Spices
Villain
Flag
Fleet
Road Network

**½:
Lackeys
Inventor
Priest
Key
Silos
Academy

***:
Border Guard
Acting Troupe
Cargo Ship
Experiment
Improve
Mountain Village
Recruiter
Scepter
Sculptor
Seer
Treasurer
Cathedral
Sewers
Star Chart
Sinister Plot
Guildhall
Crop Rotation
Canal

***½:
Old Witch
Swashbuckler
Horn
City Gate
Fair
Capitalism
Barracks
Innovation

****:
Flag Bearer
Lantern
Treasure Chest
Title: Re: How thematic are card names?
Post by: Simon Jester on November 24, 2018, 03:03:44 pm
May I ask why Exploration only got the lowest rating? I immediately thought of the interaction with Mission and maybe you don't count in-game associations but if so it make sense that something that rewards you for.. exploring.. the possibilities of the kingdom if you can't buy cards have that kind of name. I think it isworthy of a **-rating at least, more than that is a bit of a stretch for sure, but I still like the name of the card pretty much theme-wise.
Title: Re: How thematic are card names?
Post by: AJD on November 24, 2018, 05:14:42 pm
May I ask why Exploration only got the lowest rating? I immediately thought of the interaction with Mission and maybe you don't count in-game associations but if so it make sense that something that rewards you for.. exploring.. the possibilities of the kingdom if you can't buy cards have that kind of name. I think it isworthy of a **-rating at least, more than that is a bit of a stretch for sure, but I still like the name of the card pretty much theme-wise.

I do count in-game associations, and that counted against Exploration for me. The card whose name is most closely related to Exploration is Explorer, a Silver gainer, which has nothing to do with the effect of Exploration. Meanwhile, the existing effect that's most similar to Exploration, in my opinion, is Baths, which is highly thematic—take the day off, don't do anything, just sit around in the hot tub, you'll feel better. Thematically, Exploration is the opposite of Baths—heading out into the perilous unknown, versus sitting safe and sound in a comforting bath—so it seems odd to me that it should also be a "get tokens for not doing anything" effect.

I dunno, I guess Hermit is another potential comparison point—he goes mad if he doesn't buy anything, i.e., if he doesn't, like, engage in his daily routine and interact with other people? And so Exploration is, like, deliberately departing from your daily routine, and getting some resources out of it? I dunno, maybe it could be a *½, but it just doesn't really hang together for me.
Title: Re: How thematic are card names?
Post by: Simon Jester on November 24, 2018, 06:07:26 pm
May I ask why Exploration only got the lowest rating? I immediately thought of the interaction with Mission and maybe you don't count in-game associations but if so it make sense that something that rewards you for.. exploring.. the possibilities of the kingdom if you can't buy cards have that kind of name. I think it isworthy of a **-rating at least, more than that is a bit of a stretch for sure, but I still like the name of the card pretty much theme-wise.

I do count in-game associations, and that counted against Exploration for me. The card whose name is most closely related to Exploration is Explorer, a Silver gainer, which has nothing to do with the effect of Exploration. Meanwhile, the existing effect that's most similar to Exploration, in my opinion, is Baths, which is highly thematic—take the day off, don't do anything, just sit around in the hot tub, you'll feel better. Thematically, Exploration is the opposite of Baths—heading out into the perilous unknown, versus sitting safe and sound in a comforting bath—so it seems odd to me that it should also be a "get tokens for not doing anything" effect.

I dunno, I guess Hermit is another potential comparison point—he goes mad if he doesn't buy anything, i.e., if he doesn't, like, engage in his daily routine and interact with other people? And so Exploration is, like, deliberately departing from your daily routine, and getting some resources out of it? I dunno, maybe it could be a *½, but it just doesn't really hang together for me.

True, but to be fair, isn't it Explorer that is a bit off as a Treasure gainer? It's mainly trading or war stuff that gets you those things via gaining. The explorer crew could of course be on their way to do a little bit of both, but yeah, you do have a point - it would be neat if it had a connotation with Baths somehow. Hm, what combines with both Baths and Mission? Halt as in resting while on a journey (not sure for a better term in English but sure there is one, simply "break" is too tame) maybe?
Title: Re: How thematic are card names?
Post by: AJD on November 24, 2018, 07:19:33 pm
May I ask why Exploration only got the lowest rating? I immediately thought of the interaction with Mission and maybe you don't count in-game associations but if so it make sense that something that rewards you for.. exploring.. the possibilities of the kingdom if you can't buy cards have that kind of name. I think it isworthy of a **-rating at least, more than that is a bit of a stretch for sure, but I still like the name of the card pretty much theme-wise.

I do count in-game associations, and that counted against Exploration for me. The card whose name is most closely related to Exploration is Explorer, a Silver gainer, which has nothing to do with the effect of Exploration. Meanwhile, the existing effect that's most similar to Exploration, in my opinion, is Baths, which is highly thematic—take the day off, don't do anything, just sit around in the hot tub, you'll feel better. Thematically, Exploration is the opposite of Baths—heading out into the perilous unknown, versus sitting safe and sound in a comforting bath—so it seems odd to me that it should also be a "get tokens for not doing anything" effect.

I dunno, I guess Hermit is another potential comparison point—he goes mad if he doesn't buy anything, i.e., if he doesn't, like, engage in his daily routine and interact with other people? And so Exploration is, like, deliberately departing from your daily routine, and getting some resources out of it? I dunno, maybe it could be a *½, but it just doesn't really hang together for me.

True, but to be fair, isn't it Explorer that is a bit off as a Treasure gainer? It's mainly trading or war stuff that gets you those things via gaining. The explorer crew could of course be on their way to do a little bit of both, but yeah, you do have a point - it would be neat if it had a connotation with Baths somehow. Hm, what combines with both Baths and Mission? Halt as in resting while on a journey (not sure for a better term in English but sure there is one, simply "break" is too tame) maybe?

Explorer got a low rating from me too, but once an older card name is established I take it into account in evaluating later cards with related names. (That's why Woodcutter gets * but the Forest's Gift gets **—the latter gets a bonus for making a consistent theme with the former.)
Title: Re: How thematic are card names?
Post by: ackmondual on November 30, 2018, 01:48:12 am
Hunting Party can find Gold in Tunnels!

Cellars lead to Gold in Tunnels as well!
Title: Re: How thematic are card names?
Post by: greybirdofprey on November 30, 2018, 05:42:38 am
Hunting Party can find Gold in Tunnels!

Cellars lead to Gold in Tunnels as well!

Some attacks make you flee into a tunnel, and then you accidentally find Gold!
Title: Re: How thematic are card names?
Post by: AJD on March 26, 2020, 10:42:05 pm
*
Way of the Otter


Supplies
Groom
Falconer
Reap
Way of the Monkey
Way of the Sheep

**
Sleigh
Sheepdog
Fisherman
Wayfarer
March
Way of the Mule
Way of the Ox
Way of the Seal
Way of the Worm

**½
Camel Train
Cardinal
Village Green
Displace
Hunting Lodge
Sanctuary
Commerce
Demand
Way of the Camel
Way of the Mouse
Way of the Owl
Way of the Pig
Way of the Rat

***
Horse
Black Cat
Goatherd
Scrap
Snowy Village
Stockpile
Bounty Hunter
Hostelry
Barge
Gatekeeper
Kiln
Livery
Paddock
Destrier
Animal Fair
Desperation
Pursue
Enhance
Transport
Enclave
Alliance
Populate
Way of the Frog
Way of the Horse
Way of the Mole
Way of the Squirrel
Way of the Turtle

***½
Cavalry
Coven
Mastermind
Gamble
Toil
Banish
Bargain
Seize the Day
Way of the Chameleon
Way of the Goat

****
Delay
Ride
Stampede
Way of the Butterfly
Title: Re: How thematic are card names?
Post by: Gubump on March 29, 2020, 03:49:27 pm
Ride really ought to have been called Wrangle, IMO. You ride a horse after you've already got it, not before.

Also, I'm surprised Way of the Otter wasn't called Way of the Dog, since it has now been established that Dogs = +2 Cards.
Title: Re: How thematic are card names?
Post by: spineflu on March 29, 2020, 04:00:33 pm
Ride really ought to have been called Wrangle, IMO.

I think DXV's saving that event name for the one that lets you gain jeans.
Title: Re: How thematic are card names?
Post by: AJD on May 05, 2022, 02:47:55 am
*
Specialist
Hill Fort
Forest Dwellers


Town Crier
Tent
Miller
Emissary
Band of Nomads
Crafters' Guild
Island Folk
Mountain Folk
Order of Masons
Plateau Shepherds

**
Bauble
Sycophant
Merchant Camp
Student
Acolyte
Garrison
Sunken Treasure
Warlord
Marquis
Stronghold
City-state
Fellowship of Scribes
League of Shopkeepers
Market Towns
Woodworkers' Guild

**½
Underling
Herb Gatherer
Blacksmith
Battle Plan
Innkeeper
Town
Capital City
Guildmaster
Elder
Distant Shore
Territory
Family of Inventors
Peaceful Cult
Trappers' Lodge

***
Importer
Sentinel
Old Map
Broker
Carpenter
Courier
Royal Galley
Voyage
Conjurer
Archer
Barbarian
Contract
Galleria
Hunter
Modify
Skirmisher
Sorceress
Sorcerer
Sibyl
Architects' Guild
Cave Dwellers
Coastal Haven

***½
Highwayman
Lich
Desert Guildes
Gang of Pickpockets
Order of Astrologers

****
Swap
Circle of Witches
League of Bankers
Title: Re: How thematic are card names?
Post by: Commodore Chuckles on May 05, 2022, 06:25:17 pm
The problem with Capital City is that you usually want more than one of them.
Title: Re: How thematic are card names?
Post by: Squidd on May 06, 2022, 03:53:10 pm
The problem with Capital City is that you usually want more than one of them.
Sri Lanka, Bolivia, Malaysia, and Eswatini each have two capital cities. South Africa has three.
Title: Re: How thematic are card names?
Post by: Freddy10 on May 08, 2022, 08:26:48 pm
Seaside! At this point, the theme of the expansion can be taken into account a bit as well. Sea Hag becomes a bit more thematic if you just accept that "from the sea" means "affects the next turn".
[...]
**½:
Caravan
Caravan is a ***** to me: Send them this turn to bring you things on the next turns. I think also that they seems to go one after the other at the beginning of the turn (if there is no other duration), like the camels on the art.
Title: Re: How thematic are card names?
Post by: AJD on July 05, 2022, 07:08:37 pm
*½:
Astrolabe
Sailor
Trail

**:
Sea Chart
Clerk
Collection
War Chest
Weaver
Souk
Wheelwright

**½:
Monkey
Anvil
Cauldron

***:
Blockade
Tide Pools
Pirate
Tiara
Charlatan
Crystal Ball
Magnate
Guard Dog
Witch's Hut

***½:
Corsair
Sea Witch
Berserker